# Tank and Fish suggestions?



## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

I have taken care of a friends fish tank for a while and have decided to finally get my own!

I am relatively new to this but always enjoy a new challenge. I went into petsmart and saw some things that I liked for decor for the tank. I am most likely going to buy a 40 gallon tank. I am not sure which heater/filter system to buy although I am sure I would like to have sand at the bottom of the tank with this decor:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3378669&ab=fish_fc3a

and

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752241

I'd really like to find a background that I could put on the tank that resembles the bottom of the ocean with a nice blue color to it.


I hear that freshwater is easier so I would like to start off with that first. I would also like to include some plants, any suggestions that are from petsmart? I do not have any other local stores that carry aqua supplies although I heard this website is great for deals: www.petsolutions.com. Aside from those 2 pieces of decor and hopefully some great suggestions for plants, is there anything else I should include?

I would really love to have the craziest and weirdest fish in my tank. I was thinking of getting 1 or 2 of the catfish with the really long whiskers (correct me if im wrong on the terms!) that are as long as their body. (White/black in color). I'm not sure if 40 gallons is big enough for them. Maybe some bala sharks? Although I read they need 55 gallon plus and I would NOT want to stung their growth or put them in a tank too small! The ghost shrimp seem like they'd fit in well with this type of tank (again correct me if im wrong). Other than those, I really am open to anything! I want an active community and some very unique fish. I have been reading a lot lately and can't wait to get started. Props to fishforums.com as I have learned a lot in a short amount of time trolling the threads before finally registering. Your input is greatly appreciated thanks!


Jeff




Also wanted to say, I may go with a 55 gallon tank since alot of the fish I am seeing on petsolutions.com have the 55+ gallon requirement!


thoughts on these fish?:

Hap Milomo
http://www.petsolutions.com/Hap-Milomo+I91440+C80.aspx

Pseudo. Elongatus Cichlid
http://www.petsolutions.com/Pseudo-Elongatus-Cichlid+I90104+C80.aspx

Red Zebra Cichlid
http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Zebra-Cichlid+I90124+C80.aspx

Yellow Lab:
http://www.petsolutions.com/Yellow-Lab+I90570+C80.aspx

Ghost Shrimp:
http://www.petsolutions.com/Ghost-Shrimp+I71500+C40001552.aspx

South American Puffer:
http://www.petsolutions.com/South-American-Puffer+I57030+C40001604.aspx

Albino Plec:
http://www.petsolutions.com/Albino-Plecostomus-L-083+I47008+C40001827.aspx

I hear that the neon tetras put on quite a display so I suppose if this combination of fish is a bad choice maybe I should go with 30 or so tetras? I really appreciate any input! Thanks


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## OneFishTwoFish (Apr 16, 2009)

Well, first off, welcome to the hobby. I'm still new here too, but let me tell you, its addictive! My neighbor has the ancient ruins decor in her tank, and it looks beautiful! Be very careful with plants from petsmart. They are housed in tanks with the mystery snails, and you will almost always end up with eggs on your plants, so rinse them VERY well to avoid tons of baby snails.Also, cichlids can be very territorial, and mixing the different species can be difficult sometimes. Your albino plec can grow to 15" and based off what that article says, it will need a 100+ tank at some point, so you would have to take that into consideration too. It does say that the puffer can be freshwater or brackish, but everything I have read, heard, and been told is that they will only really thrive in a brackish environment.

Just my $0.02. 

Good luck! I know your going to get some great ideas\ information from the people on this board, they are awesome!


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Ive been reading some more, can I do this combination? Also, how many puffers could I put together in a 55 gallon tank?

German Blue Ram
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+889+1084&pcatid=1084

Blue Johanni Cichlid
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+831+891&pcatid=891

Candy Stripe Pleco
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+2855+1040&pcatid=1040

Could I put those together with some neon tetras in a 55 gallon tank? If I don't do the puffers I would do all of the following above if they would work well together? Let me know!

Also, lets say I have a 55g tank, how many dwarf puffers could i put in that?


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Woah Jeffro! you need to slow down and think your tank out a little bit first. And a quick tip, do not believe anything Petco or Petsmart tells you about fish, they are only trying to get money out of you and they are nearly always wrong. Bala/tri-color sharks get as big as 12 to 14 inches long and require that you have at least 6 of them in a tank, thats up to 6 feet of fish in your tank, you would need way more than a 55 for them. Puffers also get larger, they are best in brackish water, and they are mostly aggressive. Ghost shrimp are eaten by most fish, they are actually sold as food in most pet shops. Neons are not very hardy and should be in tanks made just for them, not good for a beginner. Most all african cichlids require completely different water (high pH, high alkalinity) and are very aggressive. A lot of catfish get quit large so you need to be specific with what type you want. What you really need to do is figure out what type of tank you want (community, coldwater, cichlid, aggressive, brackish, etc.) and then go from there. You can't just pick all the fish you like and then just throw them all in a tank you just put together, something Petco and Petsmart are more than happy to let you do.


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Well, I would like an aggressive tank! Something unique with some color ya know? I plan on buying a 55 gallon tank this week and buying white sand and putting about 8-10 fake plastic plants in it with the ancient ruins decor. I am going to get 2 lights, one of which will be that blue (acidinic?sp?) i think its called and the other white. What are your suggestions for this type of setup in a tank? Let me know I appreciate the advice!

Oh I also read somewhere that red tail sharks only get about 6" big! Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't that be fine for a 55 gallon?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Tallonebball said:


> Puffers also get larger, they are best in brackish water, and they are mostly aggressive.


Only some puffers get larger and he is looking at dwarf puffers. Only some puffers are full brackish, there are some puffers full fresh. 

With that said puffers belong in a puffer tank. They need a lot of care and will kill about anything you have with them. They are nippy when aggressive and while in most fish nippiness does not necessarily mean death, puffers have beaks not mouths. So when a puffer nips it bites pieces away. They need to be just with other puffers and then in very careful numbers and space. Dwarfs need 10 gallons for the first and a minimum of 5 gallons thereafter. You would also need to provide more than enough hiding spaces for having that many in one tank. Big thing to keep in mind. 

In a 55 you could keep one spotted green or figure 8, MAYBE 2 but be careful, and i do mean really careful, they will attack each other. And no other fish. No bottom dwellers no shrimp, nada. You will need to feed them snails or face clipping their beaks regularly. Their beaks overgrow easy. 



Tallonebball said:


> Neons are not very hardy and should be in tanks made just for them, not good for a beginner.


Neons are not the hardiest fish out there but I strongly disagree that they need to be in tanks made just for them. Anything with a ph of 7.5 to 6.7 would be fine, which makes for a lot of tankmates and tank setups. They are also not a difficult fish to care for. The best thing with neons, due to their lack of hardiness, is wait until you tank is well established (3-4 months with fish at the earliest) and then add. You could add sooner but the chances of loosing some go up. They need the establishment to reduce stress. 

You definitely need to have some long term sort of goals for the tank. Once you know that then you can start researching online to see what will work.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

For an aggressive tank go Chiclids. For Africans buy crush coral substrate and start reading through the Chichlid sub forum here. You will get a lot of good information!

For New World then you need a lower Ph. Africans would fit better with the decor you are planning, but you will need a bunch of rocks, or at least will want them, to create hiding spaces and caves they can defend.


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Ok I will go with some African Cichlids then. So I should get crushed coral substrate and not sand? What about some cory cats, will they go well with some African Cichlids? Lets say average fish size will grow to be 5" for the main fish, how many could I put in a 55 gal tank along with some catfish and some ghost shrimp? The cichlids will eat the ghost shrimp right?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sand is fine for africans. Crushed corals helps keep pH up. But most lakes are sand-bottomed. Yes, the cichlids would eat the ghost shrimp. Where are you getting 5"? You have to be very selective and get dwarf cichlids to stay that small. Most of the one 'assorted africans' petsmart claims 5" for will grow 8-15". Mbuna like lots of rocks. For a sand-bottomed tank with mostly plants, think Africran riverine fish like kribs, hemichromis (jewels) or my current favorite, http://www.gcca.net/fom/Pseudocrenilabrus_nicholsi.htm. Or you can go with south american eartheaters like gymnogeophagus. There are so many many wonderful cichlids, you really need to narrow it down. Starting with a 55 cuts off the larger Malawi haplochromines, but not the awesome little Haplochromis from lake Victoria. In Mbuna, you'd want true pseudortopheus like P. Salousi and avoid large metriaclima like zebras. Do you want babies? Then you have to avoid fish that will hybridize. But if you just want color, you can a all-male bachelor tank. Where are you at? What sort of fish can you get where you live and what is your budget like?


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Well I found a really good deal on a 46 gallon tank, the bowfront one. What about pictus catfish? Can I put those in a 46 gallon tank? What about a rainbow shark or 3? I hear if you get them they need to be in odd numbers. The more I look at cichlid tanks the more I just don't want one??? IDK I just want something different I guess you could say. I really like the pictus catfish and the rainbow shark. I'd really like to get at least one rainbow shark and 2 pictus catfish along with some tiger barbs/or clown loaches. If 46 gallons is not enough what would be for this? I also thought about getting some crabs in the tank with them, would that be alright or would they nip on each other? I also take it the ghost shrimp would just get eaten  Thanks for all the advice so far.


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## OneFishTwoFish (Apr 16, 2009)

Jeffro, your fish shops wont tell you that crabs are going to need to be in a tank that has an area of 'land' that they can get out to breathe at the surface, and will climb anything and everything to get to the surface if this is not provided for them. Also, most of them are Brackish water.


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Well no crabs then! haha, what about the other fish I mentioned?


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Bought a 60 gallon tank today:

Can I go with:

4-5 clown loaches
2-3 pictus catfish
4-6 tiger babrs
1- red tail shark

Would be using white sand or black gravel as a substrate along with an undergravel filter. Would buy a lot of plants (fake most likely) and some ancient ruins decor for the tank. Does this sound possible?


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Jager is the best heater company, they are a subdivision of Eheim. Thier cheap, and they are very reliable.


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

woops! lol


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Jeffro413 said:


> I have taken care of a friends fish tank for a while and have decided to finally get my own!
> 
> I am relatively new to this but always enjoy a new challenge. I went into petsmart and saw some things that I liked for decor for the tank. I am most likely going to buy a 40 gallon tank. *I am not sure which heater/filter system *to buy although I am sure I would like to have sand at the bottom of the tank with this decor:
> 
> ...


you're welcome, as for filter I would recommend same one I have marineland Emperor 400. between those two things you'll have a great basic setup for a 60gal tank that you can add to and build upon later. you would need to get yourself either a canister filter or a sump quickly tho, don't need to get both, but one or the other because 60gal is a tiny bit big for emperor, but with a sump or a canister filter you'll be good, get a sump and a canister you'll be golden.

Infact, that's my next purchase, a sunlight bar for the 25gal sump, and a canister filter for polishing.

If you like aggresive fish, maybe do a coliseum style tank, white sand, greco collums in the middle, and two fish cages at oppisite ends. =D


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## SouthernBelle23 (Mar 24, 2009)

Jeffro413 said:


> Bought a 60 gallon tank today:
> 
> Can I go with:
> 
> ...


Clown loaches get very large and while they grow slow, you'd want to have a plan for their future. It could work though. I'd probably stick to only a couple Pictus and remember they may eat small fish....so plan ahead.

In a 60g tank you could do more Barbs than that.....the more the merrier, so how about 10-12?

You've jumped around on stocking in this thread, so make sure that is what you want before you buy. Barbs are nippy and while there are alot of fish that can be kept with them, you have to be careful with tankmates. 

How do you plan on cycling the tank?


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Ok I just want to make sure I am right on this:

For cycling, I'll have everything set up in my tank and the water at the right temp, clear etc. Then I need to put in "hardy" fish before I go on to these fish: Pictus cat, tiger barbs, red tail shark, clown loaches. Correct? 

I know this is a very newb question and yes I have read a lot, but I want to be 100% sure of exactly what steps are taken for "cycling" before I introduce my main fish that I want for the tank. 

I am 100% certain I would like this in my tank:


4-6 Clown Loaches
10-14 Tiger Barbs
2-4 Pictus Catfish
1 Redtail shark

I will be buying the Ancient Ruins (Collumns, colluseum) decor along with around 12-15 fake tall plants for the tank. I will also be buying that Emperor filter along with an undergravel filter, a sump (can anyone provide a link to a sump that I can see), a good heater and a 50/50 light most likely. Thanks for all the input I really do appreciate it all. I want to get this right so I know 100% what I am doing!


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

i sorta feel like 4 to 6 clown loaches is overkill, i mean they like to have buddies, but they will all get near or a little over a foot long...
I love barbs so you should deff go with them, you could even vary it up with tiger barbs, green tiger barbs, red tiger barbs, or albino tiger barbs
Cycling can be done in a few different ways:
1. you can buy a 24 hour cycling chemical, test water before adding fish
2. you can do the slow way and just use a regular cycling chemical and wait one to 2 weeks, id recommend testing the water before buying fish
3. you can buy "hardy" fish and throw them in the tank and hope they cycle the tank before they die, again water test before putting other fish in
I prefer the 2nd option just to make sure the water is perfect before adding fish, if you go with the second I would add the catfish first for a week or a few days then add the loaches and barbs


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

kk, to cycle a tank make sure you have your undergravel, and your emperor 400 in. between those two filters you should be good. Undergravel is old school but works pretty darn good still. (I forgot completly about it). This is how I cycled my tank. 

You will need: 
Three healthy hard to kill fish. 
Tetra Aqua AquaSafe (dechlor w/ biostuff)
Seachem Stability (happy microbes)

Put in your undergravel filter, stick in your gravel, put in your emperor 400, fill with water and use some kind of decholrinator. (I use Tetra AquaSafe) Stick in your hard to kill fish.

Over the next week do 10% water changes daily. This is to get some ammonia into your tank and get the bacteria kinda going. by end of day 7 you should be seeing alittle bit of ammonia and hint of N2.

Second week, 10% daily water changes, add Seachem Stabillity as per instructions, (make sure you have enough for 1week + a couple of days) During this week add couple of the fish that you want into the tank. just don't dump em all in at once in like one day, spread the addition of new fish over the course of the week. By day 2 of third week you should be reading 0 ammonia 0 n2 trace n3. Once you got that do like a 50% waterchange and you sir are cycled.


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Sounds great thanks for the help. Also what do you suggest as the easiest way to do a 50% and 10% waterchange? Haul buckets and take water out or what? Now when I do this water change, my only option for putting water in the tank is with a hose so that water is usually pretty cold - id say around 65-70. Any ideas guys? Thanks again for all the great info guys


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

for big waterchanges I like to just use a bucket and a tube to siphone out the water. What I'll do is i'll keep dumping water till I'm where i want to be i.e. 10%-20%-50% etc.

After that I have a 5gal. utillity bucket I picked up for like $1.50 at homedepot. I fill that water, treat it with tetra aqua aqausafe. wait ten minutes and dump it into the tank. and repeat that process until I'm up where i want my water lvl to be.


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## Jeffro413 (May 13, 2009)

Thanks for all the help, I'm heading to Vegas til June 7th so as soon as I get back I'll be getting everything set up!


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