# ammonia vs ammonium



## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i know ammonium is less toxic, but i don't know how much less toxic. i would like to hear opinions of what levels are somewhat safe for fish. i tested my water today and i have a 1 ammonium reading. since it's not as toxic as ammonia, how far can i let it climb (ballpark figure)? i'm trying to cycle my tank, so the least amount of water changes the better for the cycle.


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## kay-bee (Dec 6, 2006)

From my understanding ammonium is for the most part non-toxic to fish and should be an issue in most instances. 

Off the chart (and lethal) ammonia levels converted to off the chart ammonium levels would not be be lethal.

Are you cycling with fish? And what test kit are you using that can test specifically for ammonium?


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i test with an API freshwater test kit. it tests for AMMONIA. that is what i test with. should i get a kit for ammonium? i'm cycling WITH FISH.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Be careful with high ammonia in any form. It doesn't take much to bump up the pH and flip it over. Consider an 'ammonia-detoxifier' like Prime, but know it can confuse your testing (some ammonia test kits show the 'detoxified' ammonia, some don't).


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Ammonia and ammonium exist in equilibrium with each other. Ammonium is more readily formed at low pH then ammonia. However both are always present unless a binder is used. Ammonium is less toxic, but still something to be greatly concerned about IMO. If your NH3/NH+ is spiking it won't be long till nitrite spikes which is more toxic then either one. No test kit I know of measures ammonia or ammonium individually. API tests for NH3/NH4+ that is ammonia/ammonium. As far as the test is concerned they are both the same. 1ppm of ammonia will read 1ppm, same with ammonium. 0.5ppm of both will read as 1 ppm. Having both present is normal under standard cycling conditions, ect. There are products like Prime that will force ammonia to ammonium. 

In short you should do a WC..... "stress" reading is 0.5ppm. Watch out for nitrite.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ammonium is not non-toxic. Ammonium hydroxide kills half the trout in 24 hrs at 8 ppm. Search any chemical, LD50 or LC50, and fish. But obviously a lower dose will still be bad for fish and may do permanent damage even if it doesn't kill them.

Prime claims to 'complex' ammonia and if it were just ammonium, it would show on all test kits. It also claims to 'detoxify' nitrite. IMO, a good safety net for cycling with fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=40351


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i guess i'll get the prime


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

You might want to just get Biospira and use that. Your tank will cycle in no time, problem solved.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i have special blend bacteria by microbe-lift, but i don't think it's biospira. i had mentioned tetra safestart to my LFS, and he said that special blend is better, but for some reason i doubt that. my bottle of nite-out contains strands of nitrosomonas sp., nitrospira sp., and nitrobacter sp. bacteria.  :fish:


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The slower cycle with low pH is real, at least for a few different 'bacteria in a bottle'. I expect they have to pick a pH for the bottle and strains to match. You may need different strains for lower pH.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

so emc, what would you do if it was your tank. i tested my ammonia/ammonium (whatever) today, and it's at 1. i don't feel comfortable with this number, but i just did a water change yesterday. would you do water changes every day or so, or would you get something to combat the ammonia?


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## Canadian_oto (Feb 3, 2011)

YES! Do water changes everyday to keep down your ammonia/ammonium


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You don't want ammonia poisoned fish. Do the water change if you can when it hits 1.0, if you just can't (leaving for work or something) add more Prime and do the water change when you get home. Watch the fish, you can tell when they are unhappy and suffering. 

Its been a long time since I cycled from scratch. I generally move filters around that are already working in my water.

In theory, Prime will bind the ammonia and keep them safe. Since I started using it, I've lost fewer fish. But I'm not sure I would completely trust my fish's life to it. Unless you have test kits that show bound and unbound ammonia, how would you know when it was all used up? But I consider it worthwhile to protect from spikes.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

thanks emc7


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