# Stocking for 65 Galon FOWLR to be Reef in Six Months



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

No, I still don't have the tank, but I might be going to see it tomorrow. Anyways, I can't afford lighting for corals for six months , but then I thought, "Why not get my Humu for this time?" So this is my stocking list so far!


Let me check my 30+ spreadsheet on fish I'd like! I finally might be able to get a trigger if I don't have corals for six months! It's fun to rediscover old dreams!

Five minutes later:

This is still just a possibility, so it will need to be edited by the pros... Added in this order:

Humu Humu, Rhinecanthus Aculeatus (For six months)

Fox Faced Rabbit Fish, Siganus Vulpinus

Powder Blue / Hippo Tang, Acanthurus Leucosternon or Paracanthurus Hepatus (Permanent resident, I'll buy small so that it is used to a smallish tank (65 Gal.))

2 Black Ocellarus Clowns, Amphiprion Ocellaris

*AFTER HUMU IS GONE*

Royal Gramma, Gramma Loreto (I'll add a small new outcropping of its own the same day)


I intend on keeping everything other than the humu which I will sell when I get my coral lighting, after which I'll get the Gramma!

Any other reef safe brightly colored fish that anyone can think of will be considered too, so who knows what I'll end up with! Also, vote on which type of blueish tang you think I should get! I'll get whichever wins!

Again, give me any suggestions!

(TOS, sorry if you're mad at me about the humu. I'm only thinking it would work when I have no corals.)


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

I have no experience with Rhinecanthus Aculeatus or Siganus Vulpinus. All I do know is that the Rhinecanthus Aculeatus is not reef safe and the Siganus Vulpinus may pick at lps and soft coral. Siganus Vulpinus seem to be like angels in that it is hit or miss if you get a coral nipper. 

Doing some quick research I have concern about housing a Rhinecanthus Aculeatus in your tank. It seems that with such a small tank they will terrorize any other fish (might leave the Siganus Vulpinus alone). Most of the time the general rule is you add your most aggressive fish last to help keep them in place but there are many stories that the Rhinecathus Aculeatus will kill anything it can catch even if introduced last. It is suggested to keep any trigger well fed so they are less tempted to make a meal out of one of its tank mates. On liveaquaria compatablity chart you will see that there are no fishes listed as being compatible they are all with caution or no. I highly suggested you do a little more research on them to make sure you want to deal with it. Hopefully fishfirst can give you a little more insight on them.

No tang for you tank! I don’t care how small it is. Tangs need lots of swimming room and that is why it is suggested to be housed in larger aquariums. Also if you had a small tang it most likely wouldn’t survive the trigger. I know that I have butt heads with a few on this forum earlier about nano tanks but I will not budge on tang ethics. 

My suggestion for you is to rethink your fish list especially if you want this to be a reef tank. Look at reef safe fish that won’t terrorize each other.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

That's actually the first I've heard about Humus being aggressive! Same with the Foxface! As for the tang, that's what I was afraid of hearing... Is it even too small for a Kole Tang? That's the smallest Tang that I can think of that still looks cool... If it is, then NO TANGS! FOR ME (With this tank anyways...) Maybe I should abandon the Humu, like TOS said in the 125 that I was going to get and keep it with coral. I'll wait for more input before I cut him though. Thanks!


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Too summarize, 

I haven't heard that about the humu.

The tangs, well, I agree about *these* tangs, but what about a kole tang?

I've heard the fox face might only do that if it isn't well fed.


What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Thanks!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That's the first you heard about triggers being aggressive???
Ay-yi-yi!
Dude, seriously, you need to get some books and read them before going any further, and like I said earlier, get books on the fish themselves, not just general tankkeeping books.

Saltwater fish have all those crazy cool colors and patterns and appendages and such for a reason. That reason is that they afford them. They can afford them because they can still be safe somehow despite being so flashy. Each species enjoys that safety for a reason, whatever that particular reason may be. 
Maybe it always stays close to it's hidey-hole. 
Maybe it associates with something dangerous. 
Maybe it is toxic, or even venomous.

Or maybe it's just bad-to-the-BONE.

You really, really need to know everything you can learn about any fish you might want to buy, because if you miss some minor little detail like it's an unholy shredding machine, you're gonna have problems.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Wait, are we talking about being nippy or being crazy slaughter house of death? I know you need to keep them with similarly sized fish, but that's why I was going to get it at around three inches and keep it with the fox face. Maybe I should add clowns after I get rid of it, but I haven't heard anything about them being rip, shred, eat; at least not with other fish! And yes, I have read many books, more than 15. Again, all I've heard is "Keep with simlarly sized fishes; not reef safe". I Don't know anymore though. If getting it small won't keep it from attacking the foxface, I just wont get it. This is my last time considering the humu. "If it's the same size as or smaller than the foxface, will the humu still go shreder?"

Also, will the kole tang, or if I'm lucky, one of the blueish tangs fit? I've heard yes and no, read yes and no, and seen yes and no. Now, I don't know! I'll take all of your words on it, however! You're the ones who actually have tanks!


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Triggers are aggressive fish no matter what people say. Does this mean you can’t have other fish with it? No. It does however mean you are really limited what other fish you can have. Triggers are almost always in aggressive tanks only. I would link to some stories on other forums but I can’t recall if this site allows that. A lot of the stories are the same. After being added they are fine for a while but as they mature and become more confident they begin to terrorize the other tank mates. Only the fish that are around the same size and who are aggressive as well can(may) survive. Lets not forget that the number one reason for fish to die from things such as ICH is stress and a aggressive fish terrorizing the more passive fish will cause lots of stress. My advice is to skip the trigger or set up a bigger aggressive FOWLR tank. The reason I say bigger is because with all fish they stake out their territory to protect. A more passive fish will even get a little aggressive if his/her home is under threat. The bigger aggressive fish are even worse and you might find that the biggest “bad ass” fish in the tank will claim the entire tank.

As for the tang dilemma I still stand that is probably best to skip it not just because of the tank size but just because they can be a PITA. Tangs are known as ICH magnets. I highly suggest setting up a QT for all your fish but I know that most people don’t either have the patients or the equipment to QT fish for a month. I have heard of some LFS that QT fish for several weeks before offering them up for sale but it is rare find. If you have to have a tang the Kole eye would be a better choice but most sites suggest that the kole eye be in the minimum of a 70-80 gallon tank and I still advise against it. If you are going to take a chance with a foxface then why not skip the tang and pick up a dwarf angel? I hope fishfirst pops in for he is a fish expert. 

On a different note money seems to be the big issue right now which I understand. My own project has been slow and will be slow until more funds will be available. I would love to cut corners to get the tank up and running but when you cut corners or rush that is when mistakes happen which could mean the difference between a successful tank and a tank disaster. I know that you are planning on a 65 gallon tank but what are you using for filtration? Did you buy a protein skimmer? Are you using a sump? If so did you buy a return pump rated for the system? Will you hard plumb it or use vinyl tubing? What powerheads do you plan to use in the tank to have good flow which not only helps keep your corals happy but also keeps organics suspended? What will you use to mix saltwater? Did you pick out a salt to use yet? Did you buy a refractometer to measure your s.g.(skip the hydrometer they suck)? Does your tank come with a stand? If it doesn’t will you buy one or build one? These are just the basics and they add up. Look at my build. The plumbing alone is going to cost over $300 dollars which isn’t a cost you think of while planning an aquarium. My electrical work will be another few hundred dollars as well. I know my new design is more involved than yours but these are things that have to be thought out. If you are still working these things out please start a new thread so we can work through those things. 

Please remember that myself, TOS, and others on this site are just trying to help you out so you have success in the hobby. We have all made our share of mistakes and want to make sure you don't make those same mistakes.


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## BettaFriend (Oct 14, 2010)

So this is the thread you were talking about, Funlad! I agree with everything that has been said (I think). Trigs are extremely aggressive (except for one species of trig called "black-fin" or something like that, but don't get one unless you run it by the forum first, I am not sure of the name)! Tangs need 6' of aquarium _minimumally_, they will crash into glass and be stressed the rest of their lives.

Honestly, I haven't read the whole thread yet, just bits and pieces (I don't have alot of time today). So I don't necesarily agree or disagree with everything/anything that has been said, but I trust these guys, as you should.

This is a tool that you can use (the link below). I don't know for sure how accurate it will be, but it can warn you about alot of different issues. Play around with it, then when you find something it likes, post it on the thread. It was very useful (the FW version) when I was stocking my amazon/tetra tank (virtually, it is still empty).

Hope this helps! Good luck finding some good SW fish for your aquarium!

AqAdvisor;
http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisorMarine.php


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks! I'll definitely skip the trigger, though I would have liked to try it. I guess I should also explain the tank I'm looking at a bit better. http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/fuo/2096469293.html I was going to go take a closer look at the tank today, but the guy never returned my email... I don't have anything yet... There are 75 lbs. of now base rock. It has pumps as well as "Basic Lighting". I'm simply assuming the worst and that it's a normal fluorescent bulb. I do think I will try the Kole Tang, but if it looks like it isn't healthy and happy, back to the store it goes, at any time. And as for cost, I've done the math and can maintain the tank for a year without adding any more money to my budget. And finally, I know you're all trying to help! TO use a metaphor, you're not all tearing down buildings, you're adding and redesign the structure! Thank you!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

*whew*

I'm glad you decided to skip the triggerfish. When I said "Unholy shredding machine" I had that fish in mind. 
As for tangs, the Kole is a good choice as tangs go. However, like collegereefer already mentioned, they aren't nicknamed "ick magnets" for nothing. You're already going to have enough problems in the disease department, so why make it worse? 
It's pronounced Coal-eee, by the way; it's Hawaiian.

That brings me to quarantine.
If you want to have any hope of success, you are going to have to be ready to deal with disease before it happens. On the plus side, saltwater diseases aren't as numerous as freshwater ones, and they are generally easier to treat. On the downside, though, they are very swift acting and deadly. If you let one get into your tank, everything can get wiped out before you know what hit you. Even worse, you can't use drug therapies in a tank full of live rock and inverts, but drug-free methods are too slow to save the fish.
A quarantine tank will save you a ton of money and hassle. Period. Most new saltwater hobbyists ignore this fact and regret it most ardently. Don't be that guy.

Sorry about all the hassle I've been giving you. I just really want you to get it right the first time.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

By all means, hassle me until the point of abuse! The more money I save, the more money I can spend! And don't worry about convincing me about a QT. I have an empty 30 gal. that I'll be using. If I just see one of the fishes on my list, It's in the QT for 1 month after looking healthy. If it's been quarantined at the store, it's in the QT for at least two weeks. If it gets sick and I can't heal it back to the store. Otherwise, It waits one month again, as if it were a recently purchased fish. 

Also, sorry for being so stubborn about the trigger. I just really really like them. A lot. 

Today, I can finally give my budget spreadsheet to my family. It actually works out quite nicely. With my budget, I can set up and maintain the tank for one year and still have an additional $60 left over. This is assuming I get no fish, corals, or food. But this is also assuming I apply no other capital to the tank! I think I'll be well off. (Sarcastically) well now, I'll see what other problems present themselves to me in the next six hours, because problems have a habit of doing this to me!

Thanks! (And be back soon)

- Funlad3


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, I gave the pitch for the 65, and then the 90. The 90 failed; and the 60, LOOKS HOPEFUL!!! All I need is a definitive answer, and I'll hopefully be ready to go! (otherwise, I'll work on show guppy breeding...


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