# Starting an ecosystem tank



## ksb (Feb 14, 2006)

I have 5 danios, 2 blue rams, 1 black kuhlii loach, 1 betta and 1 candy stripe pleco in a 55g tank.. I want to add snails and crayfish (shufeldtii), so with that said.. now for my questions:

Will there be any problems with the shufeldtii and my current fish?

What kind of snail do you recommend I get, and what other fish (if any) that will eat them but not wipe out the population.

Any other suggestions for tank mates that will create an ecosystem in my tank?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm not experienced with inverts but I can tell you that an ecosystem tank is almost impossible to balance out (self contained that is). One usually starts with a particular biotype as its easier to find tankmates that way.


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## ksb (Feb 14, 2006)

I want to do this more to keep the invert population balanced...


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Crayfish shouldn't be kept with any fish you don't want to lose, and especially not a slow swimmer with flowing fins like a betta. 

BTW, kuhli loaches really like being in groups. I'd recommend having at least half a dozen in order to bring out their true personality. 

I don't think you'll find any snail eating fish that won't wipe out the population. Its not like the fish will eat some and then stop and think, gee, maybe I better not eat them all.


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## ultasol (Mar 12, 2006)

Here is why an ecosystem tank typically won't work in application, though it sounds good in theory. There's a predator/prey/space ratio which helps keeps all the prey from being eaten by the predators in the wild,.. we just can't provide that amount of space or that amount of prey in a tank for even one predator. 
Also, self contained systems are a bunch of hooey,.. like those glass balls with a plant, a shrimp, and a snail inside. HOOEY!!!


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## ksb (Feb 14, 2006)

Alright so things won't work as i had liked,

few other follow up questions though... Boxermom, you suggested I get more kuhlii loaches, I think I will take that advise I just wonder if adding 5 more will be too much for a 55g tank?

Regarding the shufeldtii crayfish, I'll probably be moving my betta anyway, he doesn't get along well with the other fish. Will the crayfish be a problem for the loaches, pleco, blue rams or danios?

I'd like to get a few snails and shrimp, any suggestions to species?

thanks!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

No, 5 more kuhli loaches won't be too much for a 55g. They stay very small and you aren't near being overstocked yet. I have 7 in my 38. Just make sure they have hiding places. Mine love to hide in the base of my hollow castle during the day and come out and get real active at night.

You'll probably be best forgetting about the crayfish unless you get a specific tank for it. Your pleco and loaches would also be at risk, sharing the same strata as the crayfish. Anything that it can reach will be at risk.

I like my ramshorn and mystery snails and have a variety of colors in my different tanks. But for anyone not wanting to propagate them, I suggest nerites as nerites require brackish water to reproduce. They don't do it in freshwater.  

Wood shrimp, cherry shrimp, Amano shrimp and ghost shrimp are all in my tanks. They're all lots of fun to watch, especially when they "fly" around the tank.  Use caution when putting any with the betta though, both of mine eat shrimp.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

I got a Blue Cray in my tank with a snail 3 twospot gouramis 2 dwarf gouramis 2 black mollies 2 cories and a snail.....it works great...although the cray tries to catch some fish sometimes he is far from successful...poor little guy must feel like an old man...


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Wood shrimp, cherry shrimp, Amano shrimp and ghost shrimp are all in my tanks. They're all lots of fun to watch, especially when they "fly" around the tank.  Use caution when putting any with the betta though, both of mine eat shrimp.


Dont put them in a tank with goldfish either.....


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

Those tiny shufeldtii crays are probably the most mild mannered crays of all. I had some in with guppy fry, they just went after bit on food on the bottom.

Kuhliis seem to have low bioload and really only act right in a groups. I also had shufeldtii crays with them with no problems that I was aware of. Both are shy.

I would try out a few cheap ghost shrimp, see what happens. Especially if you get small ones you will get an idea if more pricey shrimp will be okay or fish snacks.


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## SkipT (Jun 15, 2006)

While it maybe partly true it will not work as a self contained eco system , with a little help on your end you could make one that was very close. 

I say keep looking for as close of a bio type system that would work and then just help when you have to. after all where is the fun if you don't try to do something. I for one love to try to keep hard fish and am willing to do the work.

I say do the look up work, find things that will work and then do it. Don't let people tell you that its to hard or not possable, sometimes it is 

Good luck to ya on it and send pics when you get it going!


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## ultasol (Mar 12, 2006)

The closest thing to a self contained ecosystem is a natural planted tank. There is a book by Diane Walstead on it, worth buying. It's a low cost low-tech planted tank system... fish are healthier and happier in planted tanks (REAL PLANTS!)
I've preached that enough in this forum that if you haven't seen my posts praising planted tanks then you must not hae been reading this forum very often over the past couple months.
I LOVE having planted tanks. It's easier the fish are happier and things breed like crazy.


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## ksb (Feb 14, 2006)

I actually now have a heavily planted tank.. started with java moss, then added java fern and a. nana.. now have all kinds of different stuff (half of which I can't name (came in a low light package I bought)).


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