# Tiger Barb Dying - Need Help



## DanFraser

Hi All, 

I have just started my aquarium a few weeks ago. I have a 40G hex, freshwater tank. I bought a couple of books and tried to follow everything to the word, got a good heater, power filer, air stone etc. I cycled by tank for a week conditioning the water properly, then planted some plants (java fern and oriental swords) and then let that cycle for another few days. Chemical tests showed good PH (7). I did not want to use chemicals to get the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates going so I added 6 Tiger Barbs and they were doing well, Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates were moving as expected. I think I spotted some white spots on some of the fish, so I changed 50% of the water and went out to get some ich medication. When I returned all the fish were dead and i have no idea why. 

Anyway, I have treated the tank for the last week with Cure Ich, removing the filters. I bought another 6 Tiger Barbs last night and already 3 are dead. The remaining three don't seem to be eating and so I will not be surprised to find the remaining three floating in the morning. The Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrites levels do not seem extreme and I have no idea why these fish are dying. Its really weird because a have a couple of tiny snails (I don't know where they came from because iI didn't buy any) seem to be fine, plants are finally starting to grow a little. 

Does anyone have any advice before I consider starting from scratch again with new water, plants, substrate and fish. 

Thanks 
Dan


----------



## fish_doc

Do not start over. You will have to start the cycle over from the start. "I cycled by tank for a week conditioning the water properly" How did you cycle the tank? Typically cycling the tank consists of a spike in ammonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite. There is a pulling out of Chlorine out of the tap water but that is not cycling the tank. You also said the readings are not that high, Do you have specifics you can give us. Numbers are helpful. 

With the medications you have been treating and the filters being pulled. You probably need to do a partial water change at this point to clean the water up some. 
This water change will also lower the readings and make your tank healther overall.


----------



## DanFraser

When I said conditioning the water, I started by using a PH Stabilizer and Jungle's Start Right formula. Before adding plants or anything my water was extremely cloudy and so I let the filter run for a week to clear the water. once I added the plants I let the tank run without fish for another 5 days.

I tested the water before the fish arrived and the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were all zero and ph was 7. After adding the fish (just before they all died) ammonia = 1; nitrite = 1 and nitrate = 10. At the moment with the second batch of Tiger barbs (post a 50% water change and 25% water changes for three days after that) the ammonia = 0.5, nitrite = 1 and nitrate = 10. I had expected much greater numbers so I suppose that is why I am a litle confused why these poor Tiger barbs keep dieing.

thanks for your help


----------



## Lexus

Those numbers look pretty dang high for me... but then again we may have different test kits. 
I thought usually though all readings were . point something and that 1 is really high.


----------



## ron v

Lexus is right, 1.0 is a little high for nitrite, but I don't think it is causing your problem. I don't keep Tiger barbs, but I think they are pretty tough ( guys, help me out here ). Your problems sound like something other than cycling. It sounds like you really tried hard to get things right in the beginning. Did you wash your tank out with soap or anything? Any unusual decorations? I'm wondering about somethimg toxic in your tank. Can you think of anything? Hang in there Dan. We'll get to the bottom of this.


----------



## sumpthinfishy

And where are you getting your fish? If they are already sick, they may die anyway or maybe the not perfect conditions are pushing them over the edge?


----------



## DanFraser

Thanks all, I will keep trucking along. So far the remaining three tiger barbs seem healthy enough. They don't seem to eat much when I feed them. I did not use detergent inside the tank, however I did have some african root which I have just taken out and I will do a water change and hope things start to get better. 

Thanks again for the support and valuable information. I will let you know what happens.


----------



## lakergirl

Hi,

The tiger barb I got Sat. (along w/ 2 others) I found dead Mon. morning. I got a new replacement tiger barb last nite and within 1 and 1/2 hours I found the new one swimming (spinning around) vertically with his nose up like he couldn't really control himself. I figured he would die so I put him in a small container so the other fish wouldn't bother him. He was still alive this morning so I thought maybe he was ok. When I put him back in the tank, he still started spinning around vertically and out of control. Did another fish (tiger barb?) attack him? I thought they should be in groups of 3 or more (that's what the pet store said)... HELP!!

Susan


----------



## Puffer Pita

they should be in groups of 6 or more. how big is the tank, how did you cycle and what else is in it? do you know the water parameters?


----------



## lakergirl

I'm not sure what you mean by "cycling". I had 3 fish on Sat. (2 blue guaramis and 1 rainbow shark---all about 1 to 1 1/2" in length). The shark used to hide until I added the new fish on Sat. The new fish were 3 tiger barbs, 1 red-tailed shark and 1 fish the pet store gave me for free that they said would be compatible (forget what he's called). All the fish seem to get along but now 1 tiger barb has died and another seems to be in trouble. I don't think the gouramis attacked them. I have a feeling it was the other tiger barbs. Is this possible/likely?

Susan


----------



## lakergirl

I forgot to answer your other questions! I have a 20 gal. tank, and the water keeps testing fine in all areas...


----------



## Puffer Pita

yes its possible. how long has the tank been set up and what size is it? i would recommend not listening to the pet store guy anymore. they rarely know what they are talking about. The red tailed shark will become very aggressive and I have a feeling you are overstocked and the tank is uncycled, since you don't know what cycling is. Not your fault but you are likely to lose all of them because of it.

Get your hands on some Prime water conditioner immediately, and some Biospira if you can.


----------



## Puffer Pita

Yup, definitely overstocked and those fish will be very aggressive towards each other.


----------



## lakergirl

Since I just bought the tiger barbs, the red-tail shark (and the mystery fish) and can return them (within the return period), should I just do that---return them and tell the pet store they steered me wrong in terms of compatibility??? If so, what should I put in with the 2 blue guaramis and the 1 rainbow shark? Thanks so much! (also, I'll get some Biospora today!)


----------



## Puffer Pita

Yup, I would definitely return them, as well as the rainbow shark, which requires a much larger tank. With the blue gourami, you're pretty much maxed out. Once the tank completely cycles, you might be able to get away with a couple or three cories, as long as you faithfully do 50% water changes. 

Its always best to find out exactly what kind of fish you are looking at, then go home and do research on it, before purchasing.  If you can find out the correct scientific name, that's even better, as many people slap incorrect or meaningless names on them in stores.


----------



## lakergirl

YIKES! Are you saying that with a 20 gal. tank I am maxed out with only 2 dwarf blue gouarami (which only get to 2" in length)??? How can that be??? Would the gourami be compatible with other gourami (like the dwarf flame gourami)?? I sure don't want a 20 gal. tank with only 2 fish (and a couple of cories)!

By the way, I guess I am "cycling". For the past 7 weeks, I've been faithfully changing out 25-30% of the water every 2-3 weeks and the water has been testing normal in every way (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH, etc. etc.). But I did buy some "Cycle" stuff that you add to the tank when you add new fish which helps regulate nitrates and ammonia levels and makes the fish less stressed. So after I return the tiger barbs and red tail shark, I'll put the "Cycle" stuff in with any new fish I get. Thanks!


----------



## Puffer Pita

Ok, you said blue gourami, not dwarf gourami.  Two different fish. No, you aren't maxed out if they are dwarves. Be aware, however, that there may be some aggression issues with two males in that small of a tank. I definitely wouldn't add another male. You could go with a small group of cherry barbs (no other type of barb though-cherries are the only peaceful barb), some white cloud mountain minnows, neon tetras or something similar, etc. 

Cycle is useless, don't bother. Biospira is the only product that has the appropriate live bacteria. Have you had the fish in the tank for 7 weeks? I thought you'd said you had them since Saturday. Did I misunderstand?


----------



## lakergirl

Thanks. Yes, I had the 2 blue dwarf gouramis and the 1 rainbow shark in the tank for the past 7 weeks (changing out 25-30% of the water every 2-3 weeks) and weekly testing of the water (with a thing stuck to the tank to test ammonia levels constantly). After 7 weeks I figured it was safe to add more fish to the tank! That's when (on Sat.) stupid Petco recommended the 3 tiger barbs, the red-tail shark and the mystery fish. Today at lunch, I asked Petco if I could return the live fish b/c of compatibility problems and they said yes. So now I just have to find Biospira tomorrow and buy new fish!

Can I keep the redtail shark? He brought my rainbow shark out of hiding for 7 weeks, and they now pal around together when they aren't hiding?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Gourami Swami

Nope, I wouldnt keep the redtail If I were you


----------



## Puffer Pita

Oh, okay. Are you using test strips or liquid test kits? After 7 weeks, its likely the cycle is complete and you shouldn't need Biospira. Just get some Prime and use that as your water conditioner until the water settles back down. However, adding a bunch of fish at once will cause a minicycle. The amount of good bacteria is proportionate to the current bioload. Increase the bioload and there won't be enough bacteria to handle it. Thus, minicycle. To minimize that, don't add more than a couple of fish at a time, and make sure they are acclimated carefully. 

I recommend a quarantine tank. It can be a smaller tank and all it needs is a filter and water. No decor or substrate is required. But if the new fish have anything wrong with them, such as intestinal parasites or ich, or anything else, you'll expose everyone in the main tank to them and its much harder to treat everyone. Quarantining for a minimum of 2 weeks is very highly recommended. Pet stores like Petco and Petsmart are notorious for having sick fish.

Your red tail shark may be friends with the other shark now, but trust me, it won't be for long. They get extremely territorial and aggressive and a 20g tank isn't nearly big enough. I forgot you were keeping the rainbow. I wouldn't recommend it, as they get too big for a 20g.


----------



## lakergirl

THANK YOU!! Am I doing it right with the changing of water (25-30%) every 2-3 weeks? And the weekly testing? How often do I need to add the Biospira?? Thanks again! This certainly has been quite a learning process (I killed my first 3 fish b/c of ammonia poisoning!)...


----------



## Puffer Pita

I'd recommend changing closer to 30-50% weekly. Testing weekly is good. You don't need Biospira, that's only for uncycled tanks, just use the Prime and you'll be good to go.

Oh, and make sure you are vacuuming the substrate really well whenever you do your water changes.


----------



## lakergirl

I've been using test strips (though I do have a water test tube kit that a friend gave me, but haven't used it b/c it seemed more time-consuming!).

I'll get rid of the incompatible fish, and then add your recommended fish, a few at a time (after quarantining them). 

Thanks for all your help!!


----------



## Puffer Pita

Test strips are notoriously inaccurate. I would get Aquarium Pharmaceuticals' Master Test Kit. It's pretty economical and will have all of the basics you need.


----------

