# Lower my ph???? Help advice



## davidg1013 (Feb 13, 2011)

OK My ph was about 8....its cycled with no fish yet....I went to the fish store and th ewoman who was quite knowledgable (yet bit of an extremeist) says i must lower it first...esp since the fish i want are basically just small danios..zebras, cardinals, glo....maybe a mollie....shark perhaps, but mostly just some danios.....she recommended a pillow softner which ive had in the tank now for bout 5 days..i recharged it last nite and she also said some phdown.....well as of last nite the ph has come down at least to where its not ON the chart thats included in my ph test kit but its still high at 7.5......i added a piece of drift wood too.....This is my 2nd tank and want to do it right this time around so really want all my levels exact...(others are perfect..just the ph is high).....

DO I NEED TO LOWER?? Many say dont worry about it as the fish will adapt just fine......then others say do what you can to lower it minus using chemicals (which i agree).........Should I just buy the danios etc and hope they adapt or what????? HELP


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

first make up your mine. cardinals like low hardness, mollies like high pH/hardness. danios like moderate pH 6-8, moderate hardness 5-20º. Danios will be fine in what you have. most riverine fish are pretty adaptable. 

I would use the water you have and just do your homework and avoid any fish labeled 'blackwater' or from the amazon. Any livebearer, Mexican or C. American cichlid will do fine. 

There is nothing magical about 7.0 and if your water is very hard, you will be fighting a losing battle trying to keep it down. An unstable pH is worse for fish than a high one. 

If you must use chemicals, get something like SeaChem's regulator line that has a blend of buffers. Throw away the pH down. That stuff is an acid (HCl) and when you add it to a tank the pH goes down briefly then pops back up due to the natural buffers in your water.

If danios are what you want, get them. But your water is likely perfect for mollies.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

I completely agree with what emc7 except for what he said about the pH and hardness of the fish. If you add the "blackwater" and keep your pH at about 7, you should be able to acclimate your cardinal tetras. Then, if you were to gradually allow the pH to rise, the cardinals SHOULD be okay. I have my neon tetras (Very similar) at a pH of about 8.2 and my hardness at who know what.

Then again though, I'm usually the exception, not the rule. ;-)


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I also know of neon tetra that lived 8 years in Il water. But why bother? there are lots of fish that will love your tap water with no acclimation. 

This is a first tank, first fish. Make it as simple as you can, you will still make mistakes. Save the 'advanced' stuff like water modification for later.


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## davidg1013 (Feb 13, 2011)

emc7 said:


> I also know of neon tetra that lived 8 years in Il water. But why bother? there are lots of fish that will love your tap water with no acclimation.
> 
> This is a first tank, first fish. Make it as simple as you can, you will still make mistakes. Save the 'advanced' stuff like water modification for later.


excellent and thanks for the info. I had a tank with 3 Angel Fish that lasted 8 years which i was told is very good. This being my 2nd tank i wanted to go with something lil simpler. I have a 30 gallon hex tank...

I just came back from the fish store today. Now, maybe its just these owners (nice people and knowledgable and helpful but lil too exact maybe..), but I told them I want to put in danios to start...6, with 2 catfish they advised, but they are REALLY strict on this PH level being EXACT in the zone. Now I went to a good fish profile page last nite and basically for most fish and the danios the range is pretty varied....so whos right here?? My PH is NOT perfect 6.5 or 7....but its below 8 now , after softening it with a pillow and adding a piece of drift wood.....but its like im afraid to tell these people its not exactly what thier PH level is...(thier tanks were in the 7s range...had alot of tanks).......so what should I do??? Listen to them or you guys and just buy the fish and pretty much hope they adapt with no problems like alot of the advice ive heard.....????????????????????? Thanks again for the help here!!!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

IMO, if they are finicky about pH and but not caring about hardness, those nice people really don't know their stuff. Lots of research shows the pH is far less important to fish than dissolved salts and minerals. And adding pH down to a tank with fish in can be deadly. IMO, its for 'pre-conditioning' water only. Like you want to move your betta into water of the same pH. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in anyone who pushes it.

You could buy fish and just add your water to a container with them slowly. Up to you whether you lie to them, confront them, or humor them by buying water modifiers. 

You could also dilute the tap water with rainwater or RO or DI water. 

But, in my personal opinion, going for 'perfect' water for a domesticated fish that has a fairly wide happy range is wasted effort. You will spend a lot of time and money fighting a battle that the fish won't even care about. 

I would find a nice, authoritative book that shows mollies like, say 7.5-8.5 pH, then show them the book, your 8.2 pH and buy some mollies.


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## davidg1013 (Feb 13, 2011)

emc7 said:


> IMO, if they are finicky about pH and but not caring about hardness, those nice people really don't know their stuff. Lots of research shows the pH is far less important to fish than dissolved salts and minerals. And adding pH down to a tank with fish in can be deadly. IMO, its for 'pre-conditioning' water only. Like you want to move your betta into water of the same pH. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in anyone who pushes it.
> 
> You could buy fish and just add your water to a container with them slowly. Up to you whether you lie to them, confront them, or humor them by buying water modifiers.
> 
> ...


yea im with you...I just told them i uised the pillow in filter and added the drift wood and that did lower it a lil bit....but i told them its where they wanted to hear it was...7.0 ish.....So my plan is...

2 catfish
6 danios

.........let that go for 2 weeks and monitor and then get some more...I raelly like the shark which i was told i should get 2 of and they would be fine with my mix of other fish.....and ill get more danios maybe or 6 tetra cardinals....that sound right???

I admit i did use the PH DOWN a few times but i have ceased that and I added 2 extra gallons of water ...I also added a powerhead...my ammonia is 0 and nitrites 0....temp 77-80......I think im ready to go! thanks a million for your advice and time!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

my water is 8.2 out of the tap and not appreciably lower despite being planted and having wood in them.
My cats are 3 years old, I had a 5 year old otto until this year. My cardinals are 4 years old. Black skirt tetras are coming up for 10 years.
As stated- the fish will adapt to your conditions without fussing.Just acclimate them slowly to your tank if the fish owners keep their tanks at a "perfect level".
Its going to be a whole lot cheaper too!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

wow, mousey, I would've predicted that guppies would thrive for you, not cardinals. But riverine fish seem to take variation a lot better than lake fish or ocean fish. You may need really soft water to hatch eggs, but I've heard of one person who breeds discus in pH 8.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well as you are aware I have been having a bout of trouble with guppies for some time. I think it is more to do with inherited disease in their body as opposed to water issues however.
Once I get the guppies past the 6-7 month mark the females tend to live for a couple of years or more.
I have also been surprised bythe cardinals. I have had no luck with neons although that couldbe due to poor batches in the store. And I inherited these cardinals from a friend so who knows how much older they are than I think.
I do regular water changes so that probably helps!


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## davidg1013 (Feb 13, 2011)

thanks for the advice...tomorrow i get the fish!! Enough of the ph stuff lol


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