# Black moor Help please.. New fish owner



## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Hello,

I have recieved a black moor fish yesterday from my friend who is moving across country.

She told me it was a guppy as that's what the pet store told her :-x but he is definatly NOT A guppy, i have found out what he is, but here ismy dilemma

He's a goldfish, and goldfish are messy. she has had him in a bowl, aprox 2-4 ltrs (very small I know :sad for two weeks with no water changes :sad: so the water is murky. I will go to apet store this afternoon after work to get water conditioner, have my water tested at the store, and find out how to change the water and do so every few days or more as needed.

However, I am very worried abt this bowl he has been in for two weeks. He is fine, active still, but I cant get a tank until around christmas b/c I had already asked for one for xmas, so thats abt a 2-3 week wait (ill get one quicker if i get an xmas bonus)

so I am wondering, will he be ok in the bowl for a few weeks if I keep up with cleanliness?? I havent ever had a fish, but I have been researching them since I thought I was inheriting a guppy.. but this is more than a guppy in my opinion..

so will he be ok for a bit in the bowl? Im so worried for the poor little guy 

and she also had sharp grass plants in the bowl,and I will remove that as soon as I get home! I dont want him poking his eye on it


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The key to keeping a fish alive in a small container is clean water. Do enough water changes, feed only lightly, and he should hang in there. A good water conditioner that deals with ammonia, such as Prime, will also help. If there isn't any filter in the bowl, 100% water changes are normal. But since your water might be different that what the fish is in, ease into it with water changes of increasing size.

IMO, the main thing wrong with goldfish is that, when you treat them right, they grow. Odds are your x-mas tank will be looking small by next X-mas. 

Good for you for researching and taking good care of this fish.


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

emc7 said:


> The key to keeping a fish alive in a small container is clean water. Do enough water changes, feed only lightly, and he should hang in there. A good water conditioner that deals with ammonia, such as Prime, will also help. If there isn't any filter in the bowl, 100% water changes are normal. But since your water might be different that what the fish is in, ease into it with water changes of increasing size.
> 
> IMO, the main thing wrong with goldfish is that, when you treat them right, they grow. Odds are your x-mas tank will be looking small by next X-mas.
> 
> Good for you for researching and taking good care of this fish.


I have been researching and researching... lol, but talking to people with experience is so much better!

The tank I have in mind at the moment is 11.8g (45ltr).. But I may see if I can get slighlty bigger say a 15-20g tank for the lil guy b/c he will probably grow if I can care for him well, and then I wouldnt have to buy another tank next yr... so I will see what I can afford by xmas..

so this afternoon I will get the conditioner, and a PH test kit,and anything else I need ASAP.. does ph test kit test the nitrate? and nitrate is caused by poop right? is changing the water regularly (and feeding less often?) a good way to keep nitrate at bay in the unfiltered bowl?

Thanks!

I am so glad he's a very hardy fish! he has been in the bowl for 2 weeks with no change, and regular feedings, and he's going strong still (this morning when I left for work anyhow) so he's a lucky little fish:fish:


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, nitrate is caused by poop (well technically, poop causes ammonia which causes nitrite which causes nitrate). While its nice to be able to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, if you give him 100% water changes twice a week, you should keep the toxins under control even if you don't measure them. pH doesn't test for nitrate, but high nitrate can cause the pH to go lower. Low pH doesn't mean high nitrate, but falling pH could (it doesn't have to). If you get a tank with a filter, you could cut back to 20% weekly water changes once it is established (cycled). I agree that a pH test is a good purchase, so you can tell if your tap water is close to the water in the bowl (too quick a change can hurt the fish). pH tests are cheap and last many, many tests. Some stores will do a few tests for you. 



> is changing the water regularly (and feeding less often?) a good way to keep nitrate at bay in the unfiltered bowl?


 Yes, In an unfiltered bowl, water changes are the only way to get the waste products out (ok well, maybe algae might eat some, so green murk is good).


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Off Topic: Oh your from GA! I am from GA originally! I lived in Dalton all my life, and now I have lived in Australia for the past three years ha ha  No wonder your so helpful! I do miss GA 

so today I will buy conditioner, ph test kit, fish net, something to replace the spiky plants with.. is there anything else I need ASAP for the bowl?


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Here is a picture, I am not very good at taking pics of him yet

I have done a 50% water change today, and he said do a 50% water change tomorro, and then just reduce it as the water gets clearer


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Looks like a double tail, fortunately, those don't get quite a big as the single-tails. I understand aquarium stuff is really expensive over there. You could look for for a used tank to save some money. I'm in the Atlanta North suburbs. I like to shop in Dalton.


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

tryin this post again ha ha

Ok so I have found what I think is a good deal on an aquarium

it is 45 ltrs (thats abt 11.8 gal) and rectangular so Bertie would have alot of surface area. I can get the tank, the filter, and a light for around $150, and that could be my xmas present

So my question is, will this tank be sufficient for bertie?

Also, what kind of filter is best, side/hanging filter? Top filter? or bottom filter?

Thanks


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

also how safe are 2nd hand aquariums?

They are cheaper, but I do not want to buy one and then bertie die because the previus fish had bacertia or something, so are they safe or no?? I thought new would be best b/c then Iknow for sure there will be (hopefully) no problems

any input?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you bleach them, you can usually kill everything. The main danger of old tank is that they can start leaking unexpectedly.


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

wouldnt bleach then kill the fish?

I think Ill stick with my 45 ltr one anyhow. The aquarium guy said tahts alright for my fish, and I could have more in it if I wanted, but I know from here its just the right size, so most i'd do is get bertie a friend for a few yrs until I get a bigg tank maybe next yr when I move out


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You rinse it, let it dry, then use dechlor, it takes it right out.


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for all ur help!

Ok, I really am worried about this bowl. I can't wait til have it gone 

so this afternoon I will do another 50% water change.. and I was wondering, can I clean his rocks? do I just scoop them out, put them in a bucket with tap water and try and "swish" them around to get the dirt/poop/grunge off them and then add them back to the bowl? Thanks


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Ok, I'm worried. On one of his small back fins(the lower fin) he seems to have torn it somehow 

All the other fins seem fine, there arent any other tears yet... 

He isnt acting wierd or being lethargic, he is just swimming around like normal. I fed him yesterday and he enoyed getting his food. He seems to be doing fine, just a tear on that fin? Will it hear itself? and why did it happen?:-/


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## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

Our gold fish just keeps growing and yes he or she is very messy. Yep.


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

Torn fins could be a sign of stress.

When you do water changes, does the temperature match what he was in already?

I don't worry too much about ripped fins, because if the reasoning for them is figured out, they usually heal themselves.


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

justintrask said:


> Torn fins could be a sign of stress.
> 
> When you do water changes, does the temperature match what he was in already?
> 
> I don't worry too much about ripped fins, because if the reasoning for them is figured out, they usually heal themselves.


Oh ok, I did do a water change (50%) a few hours before he somehow tore his fin, so maybe the temperatures did not match or something... He seems fine otherwise, happily swimming around... two more weeks hopefully in his horrible bowl and he can have a cool tank!

Howlong until it fixes itself?:!:


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

it all depends on the fish imo. I've had fins heal overnight, and some fins take a few weeks. All depends how bad it is.

When water changes are done, just try to make sure the temperatures match, and know that fish have a really hard time adjusting to water that is 3-4 degrees lower than the water they are in, but higher water they can usually adjust to


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Ok thanks! I'll try and get a thermometer soon too, b/c I'll need one for his tank anyhow. then I can see if its easier for him to adjust.


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

well you can use your finger to feel if the water is the same temperature. your finger is very accurate and can feel differences within .5 degrees


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

serious? ha ha I did use my hand yesterday to try and get the water the same, but Imust have not done it correctly, because if a different temperature could have caused the rip, that fits in perfect with the activities before hand


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

did you use a water conditioner when you changed water? it could be a series of things, but once you get him into the bigger tank it shouldnt be too bad


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

justintrask said:


> did you use a water conditioner when you changed water? it could be a series of things, but once you get him into the bigger tank it shouldnt be too bad


Yep I do one drop per 2 ltrsof chlorinated water like it says on the Prime bottle.

also, do you put conditioner in the bowl? or only new water? and how often for old water if you condition it?


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

i only use it when i change water, and when i add new fish i put some in


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## lirpa1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Well I now know that my black moor is male as he has started "spawning". He has dots on his gills, and on his front fins, small whitosh blue ones... quite extraordinary really... and I will admit I thought it was a fungus at first ha ha. but its natural, and now I know what he is (male)

so why is he doing this now if he is the only fish in his bowl? is it just taht he is mature and the dots will now come and go? or is he confused?


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## christosclowns (Dec 31, 2008)

I would just do a 25 percent water change check your hardness to, low ph or alkalinity sometimes triggers other things. As far as temp goes, go to radioshack and by a laser thermometer which you can just walk by and shoot your tank with the laser and it gives you your tem its retty easy


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