# Java Ferns?



## Dana and Jay (Dec 27, 2005)

we just got our very first freshwater tank (29 gal). We would like to add live plants to our aquarium. A Java Fern was recomanded by a book that we purchased with the tank. In the book it says that Java Fern doesnt grow well with a gravel substrate. Is this true??? If it is what other types of substrate will work, also if gravel is the best way to go for us beginners what plants will like gravel? Using 100w florescent tube.

Thanx :fish:


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## bichirboy (Dec 24, 2005)

You should not have much trouble with Java Fern in gravel, atleast I did not. Many plants however don't do as well in gravel due to being root feeders and gravel doesn't hold nutrients. Do a search on substrate and you will find a wealth of information. I'll paste aliltte bit here too.

Cut and pasted from http://www.aquabotanic.com/begin.htm 

The substrate is your gravel or rooting medium for the plants. It is important to provide a medium that can both store nutrients and be a source of nutrients for your plants. There are several different approaches to doing this. There are additives made for the aquarium to add to your gravel to provide iron and other essential elements, and more complicated do it yourself recipes that include the use of soils, clays, peat, vermiculite or even clay kitty litter. The term laterite is often used in discussions about substrates. Laterite is an ancient soil made from decaying rocks and weathered by tropical heat and rain. The process has stripped the soil of all nutrients other than oxidized iron, which can be highly concentrated. Land plants can not grow in this type of soil, but in tropical Asia laterite soil run offs are found in waterways providing the iron that aquatic plants need to grow. According to Dupla, a company who first commercialized the use of laterite in the aquarium, there are several grades of laterite, not all of which are beneficial to the aquarium. In fact some can cause harm. In non tropical climates in today's world, ancient laterite rocks, (not laterite soil) can be found, such as areas of the USA. Dupla, who claims to have the only true tested laterite, however there are several other brands available. The term clay and laterite are often confused. They are not one and the same, however many substrate materials are either laterite or clay based. Both for all practical purposes provide the same thing: a source of iron and the ability to hold nutrients it absorbs from the water.

Clay gravel is another alternative to laterite. This should be used without adding laterite to it. It is advisable to learn more about what nutrients plants need, and what's involved in a substrate method before getting involved in it. Do not blindly mix different approaches together without understanding the consequences. For example, too much organic material, peat or top soil, can cause severe problems. Kitty litter can alter your pH. 

Adding garden fertilizers to an aquarium will dramatically raise the nitrate level, since the chief ingredient is nitrogen, putting your fish at risk and at the very least causing a huge algae outbreak.

Not all plants need to draw nutrients from the substrate. Floating plants obviously do not, as well as plants that anchor to rocks or wood. Most plants take nourishment from both the roots and the leaves, but some rely more heavily on root feeding than taking it from the water.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Jave fern does best attached to a piece of driftwood or bogwood. Don't plant the roots in substrate of any kind. They don't grow like that.


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## bichirboy (Dec 24, 2005)

I actually did plant mine into the gravel and they did quite well, even had lots of "babies". I did at the time have large gravel rather than a fine sand like substrate which may be why they did well, since the roots weren't really constricted at all.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You can bury the roots, but not the rhizome. Calcified clay (which 99% of all aquatic soils are made of) is the peferred substrate. These vary from nutrient enriched substrates such as eco-complete to plain old turface. Plants are NOT heavy root feeders. Some plants do develop extensive root systems due to evolution where they are native to. Swords, for instance developed such because of the current in streams in the amazon. To say a plant is a heavy root feeder is false. How can a plant feed extensively from the roots when certain nutrients are immoble (fe, ca)?


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

Also- as far as I know there is no fluorescent tube that is 100 watts. Even in power compacts the most I have seen is a 3 foot 96 watter. Standard fluors normally are .833 watts per inch of bulb so a 100 watt one would be 120 inches long- or 12 feet long. Check what you have and make sure you know what it is.

And I do not agree with Simpte re root feeding. I would ask how any rooted plant which melts down to the gravel can regenerate if not via root feeding???? And I have seen this more than once.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Finally we disagree again!! Back to good old times. I never said that plants don't derive nutrients from their roots. But to say a plant is a heavy root feeder would mean that all my swords should be dead as my substrates are inert in some tanks (pool filter sand). Crypts also. And again I say how can one plant x-fer a immobile nutrient? A plant cannot move iron to the leaves. The only way to get it to the leaves is to draw it into them at the point the butrient is needed. I'm not saying that certain plants do not take advantage of nutrients in the soil better than others, but to say a plant is a heavy root feeder is unfounded. Once can grow the same plants in a nutrient devoid substrate as a nutrient enriched one. It has been tested and proven. Plants always draw from the water column first. Its easier and costs plants less energy.


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## Dana and Jay (Dec 27, 2005)

Well, some of the things you all have mentioned here are a little to advanced of a discussion for us beginners. But on the other-hand we just purchased 1 Brazil Sword, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria and 3 Zebra Tetras so now our tank has dimension. We also decided to go with a medium gravel and just left the plants in thier original pots, thats ok right? The fish guy at the local Petco said that leaving them in the pots would protect them from fish that dig up the gravel such as Catfish and Chichlids.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The plants are packed in what is called rockwool. While its a great medium for growing plants in emmersed, its not the best for putting them in a tank. As with terrestrial plants, aquatic plants need room to grow. It will work for awhile but eventually they will outgrow the pots.


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

While your sand may be inert, the mulm in it is not and the water in a tank also permiates the substrate. And if there are no "heavy root" feeders and plants primarily draw nutrients from the water column, I assume via their leaves, why do so many folks use laterite, fluorite, eco-complete etc? Why do folks use root tabs if they do little good?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

They use these materials (and most of them are nothing but calcinied clay), because they have a high cec (cation exchange ratio). They absor nutrients from the water column and re-release them once the water column gets low. Plants can and will draw nutrients from the water column but all nutrients you add (root tabs also) leach into the water column. Remember iron is immobile as well as calcium. If there is none in the water column, how do the leaves get these nutrients?


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

Simpte- check out this article by KAREN RANDALL http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/ah_main/jan1998.html


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Interesting discussion. Why eveyrbody stop? I dont think it came to a conclusion. I would like to see a clear winner. lol


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

As Mr. Doyle already knows, it didn't stop 

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/roots.html#3


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