# Beginner questions 10 gal



## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

I have read several different forums/sites and still confused.

I filled the tank with water and turned everything on. Couple days later I added 1.9ml Ammonia to the tank, tested it the next day and either I tested wrong or somethings wrong with water cause it never detected ammonia. Can somebody please walk me through this as im confused lol


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

Why in the world would you want to add ammonia? You want 0 ppm of ammonia in a tank. Ammonia KILLS fish partivcularly high dosages of it. There is no need to add chemicals in a tank except Stress Coat and Stress Zyme (beneficial bacteria).


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

fishless cycle?

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/beginner-freshwater/5756-fishless-cycle-question.html


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Just continue to feed the tank with the ammonia slowly, it will register and start to go. Hopefully it has by now since this was a few days ago.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Ice said:


> Why in the world would you want to add ammonia? You want 0 ppm of ammonia in a tank. Ammonia KILLS fish partivcularly high dosages of it. There is no need to add chemicals in a tank except Stress Coat and Stress Zyme (beneficial bacteria).


I believe nitrifying bacteria need ammonia. I believe this is a fishless cycle.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

What sort of water conditioner and test kit do you have and what concentration is the ammonia you have?

It could be simply too dilute to measure. You calculate % ammonia in the bottle you bought * the 1.9 mL you added divided by the size of the tank in mL (Liters x 1000). This should be a rough estimate of ammonia concentration in the tank. Multiple this by 10^6 (1 million) to get parts per million. If you don't get 1 or more, don't expect to see any on the test.

The next possibility is that the ammonia is "complexed" by your water condition and, even though its still there, the test can't see it. Some combos of test kits/dechor don't work well.

Or live plants and/or algae ate all the ammonia

Or the ammonia turned into nitrite or nitrate (this is your goal), test for nitrite and nitrate if nitrite is negative.

Or the test kit is dead. Test it by making a standard solution. Calculate how much ammonia you'd need for 5 ppm in a container of water and make it. Then test it.


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## fishrawesome123 (Aug 16, 2012)

1. Who in the right mind would put ammonia in the frigging tank PURPOSELY!?! 2. Now you have to clean the tank really really good


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

FISHLESS CYCLE, google it.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Well it was strips but I went out and got the API Master kit and its still GREEEEEN as ever. Guessing its just gonna take time. tested for nitrite today for the first time and it was zero but I figured that was gonna be the result. The ammonia I used is 10% which by the calculation I read was 1.9ml so thats what I added. I was just having problems with the dinky strips.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

emc7 said:


> FISHLESS CYCLE, google it.


Youd be amazed at the "FISH PEOPLE" who dont know what this is.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Green is good. But if it gets much darker than 4, change water. 2 or 3 ppm should do the trick. Too high, ammonia kills the filter bacteria, too low and they have nothing to eat. Liquid tests are more accurate and longer lasting. Since you got the good kit, run a pH test on the tap water and the tank water and post results. Cycle are faster in alkaline water.

Do you plan to seed the filter (with old media or bottled bacteria) or do this the old fashioned way? This can be slow but it gives you time to plan your stocking and research fish before you commit.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, it mostly resembles the 8ppm measurement so should I change?

Tap water and Tank water are both is the 7.4 range. That good?

Old fashioned way cause im in no hurry but I do have a friend with a tank but im a newb when it coems to seeding old media and she did hers with fish so she doesn't know either.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

If you haven't already added gravel, you'll want to do that. If your friend's tank has no disease, you could ask for her old filter cartridge. I have done that to cycle my tanks and it is effective.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

fishrawesome123 said:


> 1. Who in the right mind would put ammonia in the frigging tank PURPOSELY!?! 2. Now you have to clean the tank really really good


Lol. Bacteria that help cycle your tank need some ammonia. That's the reason. I've actually heard of using urine in the tank instead of buying ammonia, and it makes sense to me.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

a fishless cycle is far better than adding bacteria from a bottle, that is why you would add ammonia, general household ammonia that does not froth up when you shake it.....
8ppm is fine.. let it drop to about 0.50ppm then add a little more, try keep it at about 4ppm maximum, once it drops rapidly just top it up a little, once the nitrites go mad then back off with the ammonia, try get it to 4ppm max once a day and leave adding till the next day,...
ammonia=nitrites=nitrates
you need to try and get the nitrites to naturally drop so adding less ammonia should keep the nitrites from going off the scale longer than they will already, but add enough ammonia to keep the bacteria alive hence try to get to 4ppm a day,
once the nitrites hit 0 naturally hit with ammonia one last time to make sure and if your nitrates are high then do large water change then hit with a little more ammonia to check you are still winning...
this is how i do it and so far so good 

adding used media that is fresh is a good idea as betta man said, it will give you an amazing head start, using water from another tank is no good


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

Betta man said:


> Lol. Bacteria that help cycle your tank need some ammonia. That's the reason. I've actually heard of using urine in the tank instead of buying ammonia, and it makes sense to me.


[visualizes you standing over the tank peeing into it] not a good look from our end pmsl


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

That would be weird, but I have heard it works. The tank will probably smell though. It's worth a try.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

yuck, no way id pee in my tank haha


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

Betta man said:


> That would be weird, but I have heard it works. The tank will probably smell though. It's worth a try.


let us know lol
ill stick to my bottle of jeys blast off household ammonia thx


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Well I did a 90% water change and it dropped the levels down to about 4ppm and after 2 days I finally had some Nitrites show up. So im guessing my ammonia level was to high as it was killing everything in sight.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

now add once a day to get to 4ppm, your nitrates will go off the scale at some point but dont worry, just keep at it with 1 daily dose to 4ppm, the day nitrites hit 0 check your nitrates, if they are off the chart do a 90% change again with dechlorinated water and add ammo again to 4ppm, recheck your amm/nitrites/nitrates next day, if all good add your fish.

[tip]
if nitrates still high chck your tap water, i use 50%/50% ro/tap water mix as my nitrates from the tap is 50+ppm.
dont want to use all ro as all the minerals that are good are taken too so the mix is important


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

just to clarify some of this......lol
i started in this hobby almost 40 years ago...while learning about it i did all kinds of crazy experiments...one was about cycling tanks...i used several different methods to do it..one of them was using urine as the ammonia starter...it worked perfectly...since there were no commercial bacterias available at the time seeding tanks was the best way to cycle...
i agree...using the water from an established tank is pretty much worthless and ineffective...
the beneficial bacteria builds up on hard surfaces...having gravel in the tanks certainly help...and the use of undergravel filters will actually speed up the cycle...
but most of my tanks are bare because they are used for breeding and rearing.most of them also have driftwood and plants.we are constantly moving fish around and cleaning the tanks,filling them and putting fish in them..we really do not cycle tanks as is usually laid out...what we do is pull the fish,wood,plants and filter..lightly wipe down the sides and bottom...drain the tank and refill with fresh tapwater...the filter is rinsed and everything returned to the tank...the tank is then seeded....
for those folks that have only 1 or 2 or so tanks can afford to take the time to play around with ammonia and some other ways to cycle a tank ; but when you have 70 or so tanks full of fish there is no time to play around...wholesalers and shops do not cycle with ammonia....and do not let a tank lay empty for months cycling..
take a wholesaler with 400 tanks...they get orders in 2 or 3 times a week...they need empty tanks for the new stock...once a tank is sold and empty it is drained and refilled...when orders come in they will need about 75-100 empty tanks..bags are floated in the tanks to equalize temps...then nets are placed over 5 gallon buckets and bags are dumped into the net and fish placed into the tank....the water in the bags is full of ammonia...not what you want in the tank....

i do a lot of things that i would not suggest to a beginner...i don't test my water..i don't even own a test kit..but i have experience and knowledge that beginners lack...
i do believe is using fish to cycle a tank ; just not using a whole school of them..lol
for a tank like a 20 gallon i would try to seed with gravel or a filter from an established tank and use a couple of corydoras and 2 or 3 other small fish such as danios or barbs..20% weekly water changes.....usually within 3-5 weeks the tanks will be cycled..
if you can't seed it then it will take a bit longer...i have not ever lost any fish cycling this way....

the hardest thing for the beginner is learning to be patient and not freaking out when things don't look perfect...


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