# A couple beginner questions



## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

1. When you add the salt to water, does it increase ph to the required level? If not what do you use to increase ph?

2. I read in a book that it is possible to buy black molly hybrids sold as freshwater fish and convert them to full saltwater by slowly adding saltwater until it's full saltwater. Is this really possible, and if so would it be a good idea to add them as a cheap starter fish? 

Thanks


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I don't think salt siginificantly raises ph. Baking soda, however, I've heard, will. You could also use crushed coral. 

But number two, yes, mollies can live in full SW. You probably do need to work your way up to it, since all the ones I've ever seen are raised FW. They don't even need to be special hybrids. I would caution against Balloon Mollies, simply because they tend to be sickly in the first place, being defectively bred into that shape. Mollies actually like some salt in a "FW" tank anyway so adding it slowly shouldn't bother them.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2010)

i havent heard of using salt or baking soda but yea.....crush corals will help raise your ph. so will shells.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. So it raises your carbonate hardness or kH. In really soft water (low kH) adding a little can keep the pH from dropping off over time. So will products sold for "hardness support" and "cichlid salts". Limestone (Calcium carbonate), crushed coral, dolomite, shells, cuttlebones (bird supply) will also do this "naturally" as they slowly dissolve in the water. 

I've heard of molllies and even guppies living and breeding in full salt. It would have to be a slow conversion. I never heard of using them to cycle a salt tank, so I don't know if its a good idea or not. I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work. 

A large, public aquarium raises "feeder guppies" in both fresh and salt water and feeds the freshwater guppy fry to saltwater fish and the saltwater guppies to freshwater fish. The rationale is that it reduces disease transmission. But thats off-topic.


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## petlovingfreak (May 8, 2009)

Actually they acclimate quite quickly to full marine, I am using mollies right now to cycle our 120 gallon we just set up to salt again. Give them about a week to fully acclimate and they will do just fine.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

Wow I read only 6-12 hours. I guess I should probably stretch it over a longer period of time. Thanks everyone for your replies. I have a couple more questions. First, are there any corals that will do well under a regular flourescent light? I'd like to sparsely place just a couple right now, I might eventually convert to a reef tank but right now I just want to do FO with a little live rock and maybe a little coral if I don't have to buy MH lights. 
Second, can I use my gravel siphon with sand or will it suck it all up? Thanks


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

No, a gravel vac won't suck up your sand as long as you're careful. Just don't stick it down into the sand. Hover above it get up the fish poop and debris.


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## petlovingfreak (May 8, 2009)

Well you could easily go faster, but it can be stressfull/hard on the fish.


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## karazy (Nov 2, 2007)

yes aquarium salt raises your ph to the proper level because it has buffers in it. thats why it costs more than table salt.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

nope, "aquarium salt" is just sodium chloride. Pretty much the same as non-iodized or Kosher salt or rock salt. Better to use marine salt for 'brackish fish'.


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## alpharalpha (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm using dalmation mollys right now to cycle. I put them in a 5 gallon bucket 1/4 full and added saltwater for a couple days then put them in the tank; they are doing fine; cycling.


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## alpharalpha (Jan 15, 2009)

btw, growing up there were brackish water mollies in the wild, bigger and less colorful except for there would be one bigger one in the bunch with a colorful top fin, probably the male.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I have a little saltwater tank with a nice colony of mollies in it, and they've been doing fine for over two years.

I will say, though, that they grow more slowly and breed much more slowly than the mollies I have in freshwater. On the other hand, they seem overall much more healthy and happy, and I never have any problems with them. I should also point out that they are sailfin mollies, P. latipinna, and not the sphenops you usually see in stores.

Artificial saltwater mix has buffers in it to automatically set the pH to the correct range, but the exact figure your get depends on the qualities if the fresh water you use with it. It almost always turns out perfectly acceptable, though.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

^ would regular mollies from the store work too???

Whats the best/easiest way to get them adapted to the salt water?

I would like to add some life to my tank while it cycles


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

There really aren't a lot of corals that will do well under the lights you have, i mean maybe some basic leathers and they may be all... some zoas and mushrooms are a maybe but more of a risk.... I would just stick to fish if I were you right now. Wait till you have a better light to dabble in corals...


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Tallonebball said:


> There really aren't a lot of corals that will do well under the lights you have, i mean maybe some basic leathers and they may be all... some zoas and mushrooms are a maybe but more of a risk.... I would just stick to fish if I were you right now. Wait till you have a better light to dabble in corals...


Not to mention that the proper lighting for corals costs a holy fortune.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2010)

someone once said "To own and run a Fresh Water Tank, its gonna cost you an arm and a leg. To Own and run a Saltwater Tank, its pretty much gonna cost you all you body parts."


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

thanks for your replies everyone. i looked up pictures of the leather coral and they look pretty cool, as long as they dont cost too much i think ill get a couple of those in a month or two when the tank is done cycling and stable. will mollies be as easy to keep in SW as they are in FW? i also decided to build an overflow box and sump instead of using HOB filters. where do i get the plastic boxes for the overflow? the LFS has something that looks useful, boxes they use for hanging on the front of the tank and put fish into while theyre catching them for customers. i may just ask them where they get them.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

oh also besides looking freaky cool, what are the advantages of coral?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Advantages of coral?
Hmmm.. weird question; I'll have to think about that one.

Most regular petshop mollies are harder to acclimate to saltwater than the sailfins. It's doable, just harder and takes longer.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

as far as the coral question what i meant is do coral act as a biological filter like LR? or just anything that coral might add to the health of the tank.

and for the mollies, i meant after they are acclimated and in the aquarium, like do they eat the same things and are they hardy like the FW version?
sorry if im not making my quesions clear enough


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

jrdeitner said:


> as far as the coral question what i meant is do coral act as a biological filter like LR? or just anything that coral might add to the health of the tank.*the answer is yes and no. A lot of coral do filter the water and eat up fish waste somewhat... but not enough to make much of a difference. However they do produce waste so they do contribute to the bioload so to speak. *
> 
> and for the mollies, i meant after they are acclimated and in the aquarium, like do they eat the same things and are they hardy like the FW version?
> sorry if im not making my quesions clear enough


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Ok so there would not be a
Net improvement in the quality of the water I'm guessing.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

Ghost Knife said:


> Not to mention that the proper lighting for corals costs a holy fortune.


why is propper lighting so expensive? 

Is there a certain color temp that most invertebrates require or something?

also... can u use LED lighting for invertebrates?


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

It's just because the right lights are extremely bright and the type of light is not built the
Same as regular flourescent or tungsten lights. I think
You can use LEDs for corals but it's pretty new and exspensive.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Yes, the correct spectrum and intensity are both critical, and it's not cheap or easy to make bulbs that can do the job, so that's why the right lights are so pricey.

LEDs are now capable of keeping corals going, too, but so far, the kind of LEDs you need are crazy expensive.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> Yes, the correct spectrum and intensity are both critical, and it's not cheap or easy to make bulbs that can do the job, so that's why the right lights are so pricey.
> 
> LEDs are now capable of keeping corals going, too, but so far, the kind of LEDs you need are crazy expensive.


cool. Automotive LED's have been in for YEARS. I do Custom car audio as a hoby, and use them all the time. They are CHEAP !... l like 10 cents per :lol: I will see if I can pick up a nice power converter for cheap, and assemble my own LED lighting !


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Uhm... no.

Maybe you missed the part where I said the (right) KIND of LEDs are expensive. If you think you can build it for cheap, then you are building it wrong, and it won't work.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> Uhm... no.
> 
> Maybe you missed the part where I said the (right) KIND of LEDs are expensive. If you think you can build it for cheap, then you are building it wrong, and it won't work.


What is the right kind vs the wrong kind of LED ?? 

What color temp. light do I need for invertebrates?

last time I checked... LED's where very similar. You can find them in many different colors, but are all manufactured pretty much the same.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

the type of L.E.D.s used for aquariums are a bluish violet color similar to moonlightnot the bright white light used for cars. im pretty sure the temperature needed for invertebrates is 6500K up to around 12000K


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

I don't want to clog the forum up, so I have an other question I'll just post here and hopefully someone will see it. Ok, so the tank I bought came with a nice air pump, I don't really have a use for it but are there advantages of using an air stone in a sw tank?
I can't use it for my fw tank because it
Is planted. Also just to let you guys know I kinda ditched the idea of the sump when I saw the price of a water pump for the return. I don't plan on stocking it with more than a fish or two plus hermits and snails for the first few months so I'll just use a spare penguin hob I have until I start seriously stocking it.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Yes, there is an advantage to using an airstone.

The fish we keep in out tanks tend to come from reef areas, and reef areas have the highest amount of dissolved oxygen in the sea, thanks to the surf pounding the rocks. The fish have come to be dependent on this high level of oxygen, so it's a good idea to keep things churning in your tank. Water movement is very important in a saltwater tank.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

Will an airstone eliminate the need for a powerhead? Can I use the same kind of airstone as FW? The one I have is the curtain type with the long wand. I want one with the finest. Bubbles possible, right? Thanks


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

jrdeitner said:


> Will an airstone eliminate the need for a powerhead?


 No, the airstone will not move the water nearly as much as a powerhead. In a small tank, you may not need a powerhead though. 



jrdeitner said:


> Can I use the same kind of airstone as FW?


 Yes you can.



jrdeitner said:


> The one I have is the curtain type with the long wand. I want one with the finest. Bubbles possible, right? Thanks


No. You want the normal bubbles that come out of a standard air stone or bubble wand. Too small of bubbles and your tank will be so over-saturated with bubbles you wont be able to see clearly into it. I know this first hand. I used a limewood airstone (the air stones used in protein skimmers) one time, and the tank looked like a carbonated beverage.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok I mixed the saltwater about 18 hours ago and it's still looking cloudy. It's like a sea-foam green color. Isn't it supposed to be clear by now? I'm not using any areation in the tank except for mixing with a long wooden stick every now and then. I'm using coralife scientific grade marine salt. I mixed everything right in the tank (75 G.) but it's empty. Is this normal or should I just have to wait longer for it to dissolve because there's no aeration?


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok it's been over 2 1/2 days- still cloudy. I added an air stone for circulation though Its probably not effective


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Not familar with that brand... not sure if its a reaction to something or what.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

It says the same on the directions as any other brand. I don't know what it could be a reaction to. Any ideas?


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## crago (Mar 6, 2010)

is my zebra danio got eggs inside her? this mite not be the right place to ask but i dont know where else to post sorry.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

The thumbnails arent showing. Try posting a new thread in the freshwater forum. At the top of the page there will be a button called new thread. You'll get more views there.


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## Cacatuoides (Feb 2, 2009)

Sounds like a weird problem, not a salty though so good luck.


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## jrdeitner (Feb 7, 2010)

It's been 3 days- starting to clear up some. I can see the heaters outline in the back when it's all mixed up. Mostly the salt I see now is fairly coarse.


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