# New SW Idea!!!



## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

I want to start a 10 gallon SW tank. I know what you are thinking, You have to start with a 55G etc.
I will have 
- 10 gallon tank
-lid and light
-heater
-Live sand 
-very powerful filter (its not a filter, it circulates the water)
-base rock
-(try for live rock)
-inverts (not sure)
- 1 fish (not sure)
I have a few questions,

1) I was reading stuff on the net and it said i can use live sand as a main bio filter, is thios true?

This is only a plan, i may get a bigger tank.

Thanks, Betta5


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## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

:roll: :rip:


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Reefneck, how about helping them next time? Who cares if you don't like smaller tanks? It can be done, and if they have the time, patience, etc. then why not go for it? They've obviously read up a bit, so let them do it. But, help out along the way instead of posting a few little smilies, it's starting to get annoying. I'm sorry to post this, but I had to get it out. You have how many years of experience, knowledge, etc? And you don't even try.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

Your so funny,.... Not!!!!!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks flamingo


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Ok, well I guess I can try helping out here instead of just being rude .

Live sand and live rock can be your main bio-filtration, but on my tanks..I have a few handfuls of bio-media or something similar also. It's really up to you or how big your bioload in your tank is, but all in all I would suggest at least an HOB filter with a few pieces of crushed liverock, biomedia, etc. I know most people say you don't have to have a filter, just circulation and live rock, but I don't really like that idea myself. On a ten gallon especially you want some sort of filter rather than just a pump or powerhead IMHO.

If you want fish in it, you'll only be able to keep 1-2 depending on the type, or size. Small gobies, some species of clownfish, firefish, etc. are some good choices, one of the main drawbacks to small fish is the fact that your so limited.

As for inverts, also depends on what you want. While most don't have a high metabolism and create alot of waste, a large variety will get to bi for your tank, etc. Small shrimp, brittle stars (some species), etc. are a only a few I can think of at the moment. Oh..and hermit crabs .


btw, np 
HTH


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks, Flamingo I am so glad you said someting because i was going to. All i was asking for was some advice and then he...... (calm down me!!)

Well back to the fish, I am trying everywhere and i cant get LR, I cant buy off the net either. I will keep trying!!! I may get a 15 UK gallon tank Not sure.

Can i use 100% LS on its own or is this not good enough?

And 

is it true that LS will turn base rock into LR over time?

Thanks, Betta5


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You must be careful putting hermits in a tank that small with snails. Hermits love to kill snails for bigger shells. A pair of O. clownfish or percs could work, though I'd probably stick with firefish and such. Maybe a gobie. Livesand would be a must for me on a tank that small. Liverock can be used as yor main filtration source but I'd also use a skimmer and still keep some for of mechanical filtration that I can hook up and run when I need to. A sump would be great (another 10 gallon under the 10 gallon you have) as it would almost double your water amount.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

Can live sand be used as the only bio filter without Live rock?

Betta5


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## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

That's right! I don't even try! Because I have more brains! I am not going to help someone start something that 9 out of 10 times fails and 4 out of 10 give up on the hobby because they think it's hard after they fail in too small a tank.

Deal with it! If you think you are better than I am then go ahead and help but don't gripe at me.



flamingo said:


> Reefneck, how about helping them next time? Who cares if you don't like smaller tanks? It can be done, and if they have the time, patience, etc. then why not go for it? They've obviously read up a bit, so let them do it. But, help out along the way instead of posting a few little smilies, it's starting to get annoying. I'm sorry to post this, but I had to get it out. You have how many years of experience, knowledge, etc? And you don't even try.


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## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Oh and if you look at the questions this 15 year old is posting in several different threads then you would understand why I get so frustrated with this. He has no idea what he is getting into and is jumping in with both feet!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

reefman reefwhatever, what are you doing. Must you come here and start trouble. All i asked for was some help and then you caom along and be so arragant. If you cant help dont post. I dont think you know as much as you say you do, otherwise you would try to help instead of being so rude. And i have only posted 2 threads. You are not worth it you are so petty. Why dig at me instead of advising me at a bigger tank!!!  

on a better note,
I am thinking of converting my 35-40 UK gallon from FW to SW with a 10 gallon stump. Just thinking not sure yet!!!

Thanks 
Betta5

PS my age has nothing to do with it!!!!!!!!


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## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Learn to read and you will know what my name is! It says it beside every post I have made including the one in the saltwater section that talks about starting a small tank and why it's a mistake!

If you can't read without asking the same questions that were just recently covered then why should I help you fail?

I'm not rude....I'm blunt & to the point! If you can't handle it that's not my problem. One thing for sure is that you have no clue what I know or don't and I'm not paying you to "think".



Betta5 said:


> reefman reefwhatever, what are you doing. Must you come here and start trouble. All i asked for was some help and then you caom along and be so arragant. If you cant help dont post. I dont think you know as much as you say you do, otherwise you would try to help instead of being so rude. And i have only posted 2 threads. You are not worth it you are so petty. Why dig at me instead of advising me at a bigger tank!!!
> 
> on a better note,
> I am thinking of converting my 35-40 UK gallon from FW to SW with a 10 gallon stump. Just thinking not sure yet!!!
> ...


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Betta, based on what you said in your first post, you are already aware that a bigger tank is better.
If you have your heart set on a 10gallon, I wish you the best of luck in making it work. You'll need to do a lot of research, of course (for example it's a sump, not a stump )

While I don't particularily see the point of Reefneck posting just to say RIP and not offering any other advice, I think you'll just have to ignore it. Unless, of course, you want to take the advice and go with a bigger tank.

I hope you do, that way you can get more fish!

Zoe


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

*---*

Thanks Zoe, Im thinking of a conversion.

See reefneck thats how to post, Zoes got the hang of it

Betta5


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I have to disagree. While I would never make that post (R.I.P.) A new person to the area should be made brutally aware the chance of success is very small. With no "Devil's Advocate" some people (not saying you betta5), never really understand how hard it is. A lot of people read threads like reefnecks post about smaller tanks, and say "Well I know what I'm doing" or "It wont happen to me" and thus end up frustrated and quitting. We should be supportive to any hobbyist making an honest effort but we must also temper our help with skepticism and think of the animals involved also. They deserved nothing but the best....................


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I completely agree with you, Damon.

That threat that Reefneck started should almost be a sticky 

But based on Betta5's first post, I thought he seemed aware that 55gallon was what he was going to be told to have to use for a marine tank.

I've been wrong before  

Anyway, Betta5, if you are deadset against a 55gallon marine and are married to the idea of a 10gallon, be prepared for a lot of "lecturing". You'll be told it's possible but very difficult and way easier to just go with a 55gallon (or a 40 with a 10gallon sump, as you mentioned). I hope that's what you do 
You could do a pseudo-marine 10gallon, if you wanted to. A couple of shellies or blue rams, or some dario dario or a dwarf gourami on white sand with some dead coral... Much easier to maintain and you can put all your energy and money into a 55gal which would be way easier and, lets face it, more fun (do you really want to be limited to one clownfish when you could have a reef?)

:fun:


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## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

I also don't appreciate the sarcastic approach here. You do not tell me how to post or what you "think" is best. I personally don't care. My 15 year old does not tell me what to do and neither will you.



Betta5 said:


> Thanks Zoe, Im thinking of a conversion.
> 
> See reefneck thats how to post, Zoes got the hang of it
> 
> Betta5


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

He wasn't being sarcastic, I just make faaaabulous posts  

 :fun:


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Hey reefneck, when are you going to send me some frags? Marty did


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Wow where did this thread come from. Don't remember seeing it last night! Betta, i would say go with live rock, no base rock. You will only need to get 10-15 pounds which really won't cost that much. I would also go with live sand but keep the sand bed maybe around an inch. Like many said before that would cover your main filtration. You could maybe get a hob filter but not exactly needed. Just a power head or two would do the trick to keep water circling your tank. The big thing with nano-tanks is that you need to do weekly 20 percent water changes. Hopefully you live in an air-conditioned house because keeping a nano at a good temp can be tough. You will also have to keep an eye on what your water is doing. I test the water in my 20 gallon nano several times a week. This includes, s.g., no2, no3, and ammonia. I would skip the hermits like others have said and just go with snails. It is stiill my personal belief that snails to all the work and hermits just sit around and watch.  As for fish i would say you could do maybe a pair of perc. clownfish, put you may want to stick with a firefish, gobies, royal gramma, etc. Clowns are really messy eaters which can cause problems in a smaller tank. You could even do just one fish and a buch of softies....Just one more thing, i would use RO water for all water changes and top offs in a nano. You don't want any unwanted impurities making it into your tank. A little work every day and you can have a very sucessfull nano tank. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Zachary


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Beta,

I thought i would post some pictures of my 20 gallon nano just to keep your moral high. I will also post 1 pictures of a friends 10 gallon reef. Hopefully this will help encourage you and off set some of things others have said to you about keeping a nano tank.

I just quick took these with a crapy camera. 

Full tank Shot 10/8/06









Another full tank shot but you can see that i have the feeding tray open and a fan blowing towords it to help keep my temps at 80









Left Side of my tank









Right Side of my tank









And here is a pic of a friend of mine 10 gallon tank









Hopefully this will help you out some bit. Feel free to ask me any question about keeping a nano-tank.

Zachary


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

*Thanks*

Thanks so much Zac,
You are one of the first people to give me some actual help on the topic i asked for. If i end up doing a 10 gallon, i would do 25% water changes each week and a little cleaning each day. I clean all of my tanks 1 time a week. I do check ups on them every day. My fish tanks stay at 80oC all year round. 

Would this be ok,

10G tank (UK)
Lid & light
Heater 
a good pump (for circulation)
10 pounds of LR
LS
Ill see if my LFS does RO water 

Could i get 
1 Royal gramma
1 Gobbie

I Know i can get this to work, And i WILL make it work, And show everyone that it is possible for a SW newbie to do a nano.

Will keep everyone posted and will get pics as soon as i start!!

Thanks,

Betta5:lol:


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

Those fish tanks is amazing.
Is the last one a 10 gallon because thats how i want mine to look. 
This is esactily what i wanted

Do you find it difficult to look after a nano?

Thanks 

Betta5


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Yup that last one is a 10 gallon. If you want i will pm you his tank thread that is found in another forum. As for live rock i know i said 10-15 pounds, but that also depends on what kind of rock he put in there. There are different suggestion on pounds/gallon for each type of rock. At this moment i can't think of what each rock is, but i will look for you or you can as well. 

As flor your fish selection, i would say you can go with a royal gramma and a goby, but you need to look for a smaller goby. What i would do if i where you would be go to liveaquariacom and go to there marine fish. Then there will be a link for gobies. This will take you to all the gobies thy have with information on care, size of tank, water conditions and such. Take a good look around at other fish as well. 

Moving on to lighting. The 10 gallon pictured in my last post has Metal halides i believe. I can't remeber his exact set up but he build his own hood and stand for the 10 gallon. He goes into some details on what he did for the hood,stand, and lighting. If you want to just keep softies like in my tank i would suggest a 20" Orbit Compact Fluorescent lights which will give you 80 watts of light. At $150 it is not to bad for the light set up. You would then just have a glass top over your tank. If you want to get into the hard corals, clams, anemone you will need metal halides.

Well that is all i got for you for now. One thing you need to do before you start is just keep reading. There are many good books out there that will help you have a better understand on keeping a marine tanks. About.com has some very great articles on marine tanks that i found very usefully. Keep asking question, and hopefully people on this forum will give you help instead of harasing you for a smaller tank. Keep a smaller tank is much more work and a lot of things can go wrong fast, but if you are carefull and put then time in the tank it requires, you will be sucessfull.

Zachary


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## Jonno (May 22, 2005)

Hi, 

Wow you could of waited for me in this post , i feel left out :'(

I can't really add much on to what has already been said , as it was sound advice I can understand where reefneck was coming from but that is behind us. You could always install a sump this would give you more control over the water and will give you a chance to hide all the equibment. 

If you really want a nano setup some companies have bought out some outstanding nano tanks which has everything buit in which is a big help. Please look as some of the links below they are relatively inexpensive. But like i said you have been giving some sound advice above so i can't really add much on where abouts in the UK are you ?? I will be able to give you some shops which sell LR.

http://www.store.livingseas.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYCAT&catid=425


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2006)

*thanls*

Hi, i am getting fuigi (cant spell it) LR. Does anyone know what shops in London would sell it. Ive seen some on the net for £47 for 5KG but i dont think i can get it. I will see if i can (doubt it). I still need shops please.


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Betta, 

Just to let you know i keep my tank at 80oF not C


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2006)

LOL:lol: Sorry i ment F not C


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

10 GALLOAN SW TANK ?!? Oh boy, ya better think twice ... no ... alot about getting one started with a 10 gallon tank. Heck, I even know it's just a nuclear disaster waiting to happen. I know I was thinking of starting one smaller than 50 gallons myself at one point - 28 gallons at first but now moving up to either 30, 36, 40 or even 46 gallons now. I'm going to agree with Reefneck on his thoughts and opinion on this. Read and research on SW tank first before jumping in with a 10 gallon tank. There alot of excellent books out there on starting a SW aquarium. Right now, I'm still doing an awful lot of reading and research on this myself and believe me, you don't want to go with a 10 gallons. 10 gallons would be good for a quarantine tank not a SW tank. Look at me yammering and typing away like I'm some experienced SW aquarist. Pffffft - I'm far, far, far from it. But I do listen and ponder to the ppl here who have success with SW tanks. Listen to the folks here with their wisdom.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Small reef tanks have been beaten up on this forum and spit out... I'll tell you this much... from personal experience... I find that smaller reef tanks are hard to do. In my 7 years of keeping saltwater, I've kept saltwater tanks as small as 2.5 gallons before... not one under 20 gallons has been up for more than a year without a crash, or a complete tear down because of the work involved (I'm not extremely lazy either... just find that large tanks are more rewarding with the work involved). On the upside I have several tanks that have never crashed or had very few problems with. My 125 gallon, my 65 gallon, 55 gallon, and 210 gallon... my 55 being up for nearly 7 years now at my parents house, the 125 up for 2 years and the 65 up for at least a year and a half. I've spent around the same amount of money on the 10 gallon I used to have up total on the 55 gallon my parents have now. Mainly because corals kept stinging eachother, a snail would die and kill some of my fish/inverts, ect...


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2006)

I think i can do it, I will be doing some maintinance everyday, will a 25% water change a week be enough or will i need to do more. Its only a FOWLR. With 1 or 2 fish. I am going to do it just to prove it can be done by a complete newbie. 

Thanks 

Betta5


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2006)

What is it with everyone saying oh, you cant possibly do a SW tank under 50 gallons. People are so negitive, Well I dont have space or cash for a 50G+ tank but, I may upgrade later on but for now i am going ahead with my 10G your either with me or againsed me!!!!

Betta5


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

You don't need to prove anything Betta5... there is nothing to prove. The facts are in, statistics show that many people either fail with small tanks or they upgrade later because its just easier with a larger tank or they just plain get bored with a small tank. Having a small tank has already been done by many aquarists, even newbies, but the VAST majority fail, so I'm not asking you to prove ANYTHING to me. I'm not against you, I'm just giving you my personal experience with the matter. If you think you can do it... just remember, you have an ethical responsibility as well. Our oceans are by no means abundant as they once were... our pressure as a hobby has seriously taken its toll on the environment.


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

No Nukes! No Nukes! No Nukes!

I just had to say it:lol:


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

O god xenia in a 10g that person will learn quick :lol:


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Osiris said:


> O god xenia in a 10g that person will learn quick :lol:


I think it all depends on the tank. My xania hardly grows at all. As for my Anthelia which is considred difficut is growing very quick. I don't mind though because you just frag it and sell it.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I started with 2 anthelia polyps. I now have 3 areas rapidly growing with it. I could probably frag 2 of them easily (If I was a chicken on doing my first frag) but for now I'll leave them. Just put the Xenia in Sunday. We'll see how it goes.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

No one is against you nor want to have to be proved it can be done. It may be successful with the experienced aquarists but I myself would never even attempt to try one on a 10 gallon tank. Read and look around, talk to others that have had experience with total SW crashes with 10 gallons. Listen - after alot of thinking and listening to those when I was looking to start a SW with a 28 gallon tank, I pondered for a real long time (2 weeks) and decided maybe Reefneck is right. Maybe Damon is right. Maybe Fistfirst is right. That's whay I'm looking to move up to a little bigger tank (either a 30, 36, 40, or even 46 gallon tank) for now and eventually move up to a 50 gallon tank down the road. Do what you feel if you are capabile (spelling?) of succeeding. But don't be surprised once things start to crash. Good luck to you.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Betta5 said:


> I am going to do it just to prove it can be done by a complete newbie.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Betta5



This is the completely WRONG reason to set up a reef tank. One of the reasons you have been advised against doing so...............


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## Jonno (May 22, 2005)

Hi, 

If you can't offered / have the room to set up a bigger tank. Why not wait awhile save your money and get a second hand there are some quality finds out there. Or if you save up enough buy a brand new system.

Nobody is saying you can't succeed in setting up a small tank there just advising you not to because of how hard it is & how much time / effort / money goes into it and if anything goes wrong or neglected it will crash. Buy some books read up on the equipment find out what you need and how it works and ask for money for xmas and put that towards it. The people on this board have years of experience between them you might not like the advice there giving but all of its true. 

There are some great journals on the board which you can learn an awful lot i sure did 

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/user-journals.html


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2006)

Everyone, I think that i will do a 35 (UK) with a 10 G sump.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Glad you change dyour mind. You'll be happier this way. Good talking to you in chat this morning.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks, this morning, that was like 5.30pm time diff. I will have much more options in a bigger tank!


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