# African / New World Cichlids



## MyPrettyFish (Nov 19, 2006)

So, I know you can't mix these fish. My question is, if you were to mix these fish of comparable sizes, which grouping is, generally, at greater danger? There are a ton of differences depending on what kind and whatnot, I'm just asking in generalities. :fish:


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Africans would be at greater peril. CA's especially, can be very agressive, and most are better fighters than africans. Hence, you can keep multiple male africans together without too bad of a problem, but try two male midas in a tank....and you will end up with one. CA's can be crazy, and are often more than willing to fight to the death.

This is all a generalization though, this isnt true in all cases. Im sure there are some crazy ass africasn out there, like kenyi, but either way, Im putting my money on the new world.


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## MyPrettyFish (Nov 19, 2006)

So, Oscar v. Electric Blue you got your money on the oscar? :smile:


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

umm, no. I said it didnt work in all situations. Most oscars are wimps. And what is an electric blue? a 6 inch socolofi would beat up a 6 inch oscar, but a 15" oscar would beat up a 6" socolofi.


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## MyPrettyFish (Nov 19, 2006)

That's cool, I've always heard that they fight like hell when mixed. Do they fight instantly like bettas, has anybody ever mixed them together? :fun:


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Yes people do mix them, and its not like agresion is the main reson to keep them seperate. They like diferent types of water.


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

If your planing on mixing them just to watch them fight then you need help.


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## MyPrettyFish (Nov 19, 2006)

Uh, when did I say that? :withstup: 


So sensitive...just thought it'd be a fun discussion if there were anybody who had a differing opinion. I forgot, since this is a forum we are all completely pious and it's not even fun to discuss in jest. :roll: 





:mrgreen:


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

MyPrettyFish said:


> Uh, when did I say that? :withstup:
> 
> 
> So sensitive...just thought it'd be a fun discussion if there were anybody who had a differing opinion. I forgot, since this is a forum we are all completely pious and it's not even fun to discuss in jest. :roll:
> ...


Sorry about that, lol let me try and lighten the mood.

It's possible to keep almost any type of cichlid together if you have the right budget that is.
For example if you're going to keep mbuna with convicts and firemouths, or pea****************s with jack demseys, you will need a very large tank, and if you're hoping to keep adults you would need at least a 6 foot tank. 
You will also need a lot of hiding places. And the tank needs to be stocked with equal numbers of each group. For example 10 CA's and 10 malawis.
With a pH of 7.5-8, and a hardness of around 15, both groups will be thriving and hopefully you'll get a few babies too.
Recipie for Mixed cichlid tank:

4-6 foot tank (the bigger the better)
Holey rock covering at least all the back and sides.
substrate coral sand.
A very efficient filtration system, probably 2 externals.
CO2 reactor with strong ancoring plants attatched to holey rock. (reduces pH and nutrients levels in water)
50 percent water changes twice a week.
Vegetatable and meat flakes. (algae pellets are great)
Feed at least 3 times a day in moderate amonts to reduce aggression.
50-100 fish with a maximum length of 4 inches (depending on filtration)
20-30 fish with a maximum length of 6 inches.
10-15 fish with a maximum length of 20 cm
4 fish with a maximum lengh of 30cm (breeding pairs and 6 foot tanks or above only)

Possible stocking lists in 6 foot tanks:

25 mbuna, 25 pea****************s, 25 convicts, 25 lamprologus OR

10 medium sized haps, 10 firemouths, 10 rainbow cichlids OR 

5 green terrors, 5 frontosas, 5 malawi eye biters OR

pair of red devils, pair of jags


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I realize you have more experience than me, but... I really doubt some of those mixes would work.


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## Ltrepeter2000 (Dec 6, 2006)

I think that he was just showing some possibilities to consider. Most of those would theoretically work together although I am not sure I would want to see a pair of Jags and a pair of red devils together as if it went wrong its going wrong big time.

Thanks
Rob


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

Gourami Swami said:


> I realize you have more experience than me, but... I really doubt some of those mixes would work.


Cichlids are unpredictable therefore you never know what attitude your cichlid possess. What Cichlid Man said may actually work but all depends on how your cichlids interact with their tankmates.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Actually, in a 4-5 foot tank, I seriously doubt any of those combos would work. 5 green terrors, 5 fronts, 5 eye biters? Not in a 4-6 foot tank, and same goes for any one of those mixes.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Gourami Swami said:


> Actually, in a 4-5 foot tank, I seriously doubt any of those combos would work. 5 green terrors, 5 fronts, 5 eye biters? Not in a 4-6 foot tank, and same goes for any one of those mixes.


I said 6 foot tanks only


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## Ltrepeter2000 (Dec 6, 2006)

Okay so to sum up what they are trying to tell you the more likely the cichlids you choose are to be aggressive, the more likely you are to have problems when mixing cichlids. So the decisions you have to make are what do you really want in the tank and you may want to see how they interact in a smaller environment before going full out but just like us everyone of them will have its own personality so you will have to watch them closely to see which ones you may need to remove due to aggression or timidness.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

My vote is that the Americans would beat the snot out of the Africans, even the biggest Africans. The Americans to me are the equivalent of hardened criminals to human beings - crazed loons  - maybe crazed hungry loons and everything looks like food lol!


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

even in a 6-foot tank I foresee problems in some of those setups, but they would work short term at least

Anyway, it depends on the fish... 90% of the time an american would kill an african, but some africans are the equivelant of an american. Look at kenyis or johannis... They would destroy a firemouth or convict. But usually an american would dominate


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

Mazzy said:


> My vote is that the Americans would beat the snot out of the Africans, even the biggest Africans. The Americans to me are the equivalent of hardened criminals to human beings - crazed loons  - maybe crazed hungry loons and everything looks like food lol!


Funny you mentioned "criminals" and "American". There's one fish that would fit perfectly. *Convicts*.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Blue said:


> Funny you mentioned "criminals" and "American". There's one fish that would fit perfectly. *Convicts*.


lol, we have a comedian ladies and gents.


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## Jgray152 (Jan 16, 2007)

I have a jack dempsey which is a new world cichlid in with my mbunas and he gets along with everyone just fine. they all swim around each other with almost no aggrasion.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

As I said, agression isnt the main issue, water levels are. What you are doing is not optimal for the fish.


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## Jgray152 (Jan 16, 2007)

What do you mean water levels? Water Conditions?

They sit in the same range as Mbunas

PH 7-8.5
Hardness: Mild Hard to very hard
Temp 77-82

Where am I doing something wrong?


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

It will be fine, I dont really think your doing something wrong. Im just saying that idealistically, the mbuna like pH about 8-12 points higher than CA's, who like it around 7. You should be fine if you arent overstocked.


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## Jgray152 (Jan 16, 2007)

Well so lets say a ph of 7.6-7.8 is healthy for them since that is within their range and Mbunas.  I believe thats also where my PH is at.

My hardness is unknown but I will get a test kit for that in the future.

SO why don't we rule out the "you shouldn't or can't" mix JDs or atleast some new world cichlids with mbunas. I believe there are some new world cichlids that require different water conditions then the JD so maybe those you shouldn't mix.


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## Jgray152 (Jan 16, 2007)

Well to reword my post from above I suppose you can't rule out the "you can't mix" new with africans since a lot of them require different water conditions. 

I relized what I said wasn't the right thing to say


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

Again im with GS on this one. The combos that cichlid man brought up are a little out of control. 

"Possible stocking lists in 6 foot tanks:

25 mbuna, 25 pea****************s, 25 convicts, 25 lamprologus OR

10 medium sized haps, 10 firemouths, 10 rainbow cichlids OR 

5 green terrors, 5 frontosas, 5 malawi eye biters OR

pair of red devils, pair of jags"

I see none of these working after the cichlids hit sexual maturity. Unless by 6' tank you mean 6x6 or 6x4 then we might be okay.

If i were you myprettyfish, I would set your tank up for centra/SA and as long as you water is clean and you offer quality food your africans should keep there bright colors.

In most cases American cichlids will out do africans but a lot of people forget that tilapia buttikoferi are africans and are considered to be one of the most aggressive cichlids.Also 5 star generals are pretty bad when they hit sexual maturity.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

You CAN mix some, but its not technically the best thing to do based on water temperatures and aggression levels (with exceptions)


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## Jgray152 (Jan 16, 2007)

^ Water temps are the same as Mbunas for pretty much all New World cichlids. PH levels very a lot. JDs happen to live in the ranges the Mbunas are in. I saw a few others too but I think most New World cichlids like ph of 7 like you were saying.


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## Jgray152 (Jan 16, 2007)

also, what is up with the (*) in the fish type for 
pea****************s

I see it like that all the time. Why?


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

That is a content filter. if you type a bad word or one the site things is bad it will *** it out.


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## leon (Mar 9, 2013)

hi sorry to bust in as you are alredy talking about wot mix here is mine in my tank ime new here so be gentle with me just a question for now. wot about malawis and plecs. there are 12 cics and two plecs just bought them in a 5x2x2 550 ltr i think again sorry to but in


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Pleco lovers hate it. But a lot of mbuna keeper do it. The african cichlids tend to leave plecoes alone. Whereas fish from the same side of the world pay them more attention. I had a pair of angels deliberately kill a pleco they saw as a threat to their eggs.


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