# Cycle Problem



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

I don't understand what is happening with my cycle so I hope someone can help me out. I am on day 18 of my fishless cycle and everything was running smoothly until I checked my parameters this morning. 

I had my NitrIte spike on day 12 (October 16) and on day 14 (October 18) my ammonia went to 0. I continued to add enough ammonia in my tank to read 4ppm and it continued to drop to 0 for the next three days (October 19, 20, 21). My NitrIte was dropping as well (It went to 2.0, 1.0 and around .75) but had not hit 0 yet. I thought I would see it hit 0 pretty soon.

Yesterday I added enough ammonia in my tank to reach 4ppm (my normal routine). This morning when I checked my ammonia, it now reads 1.0! What in the world is happening and what should I do????? I am trying not to panic but I really don't want to have to start the cycle over  

Somebody please help me

As of today, my parameters read

Ammonia 1.0
NitrIte 1.0
NitrAte 5.0


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

STOP!
Just stop.
Let the ammonia and nitrite you have get converted to nitrate.
The bacteria in your tank are fighting for resources, and the whole system is shifting gears, as it were, now that nitrate production is getting started. In this transition your first batch of bacteria are finding themselves suddenly having to share their oxygen. They are stalling and perhaps even working in reverse a bit during this "hiccup."
Let things ride for a few days, and it should smooth out again. You may need to increase your circulation/aeration a bit.
Unless you're planning on adding a whole bunch of fish at once, you can just as well wait until your ammonia and nitrite bottom out and then add your first fish. The tank will be cycled well enough at that point. ( unless, again, you plan to add all of your planned fish at once. )


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

I am planning on adding all my fish at once. That is one of the reasons why I am doing a fishless cycle.I also meant to put another smaller filter in my tank when I started that will be used for a smaller hospital/QT when it is needed. Until then it will just remain in the larger tank.Could I add that smaller filter to the tank now while it is cycling to help in the circulation? Or will that cause problems with my cycle?


----------



## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

TheOldSalt said:


> STOP!
> Just stop.
> Let the ammonia and nitrite you have get converted to nitrate.
> The bacteria in your tank are fighting for resources ...


Ditto this one.

What I believe, as set forth in TOS's post, has occurred here is that the availability of food has well overcome the capacity of your biological digestion media and process.




Kurly said:


> As of today, my parameters read
> Ammonia 1.0
> NitrIte 1.0
> NitrAte 5.0


Kurly:

In order to give you an "idea of what you are into here"
1) Ammonia=1.0 is lethal to many fish over a brief period and
2) Nitrite = 1.0 is toxic to fish over a brief period of time.

When your ammonia concentration goes to 0 and your nitrite concentration goes to approximately 0.3 you can begin adding fish.

TR


----------



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

ugh... that wasn't his question. He didn't ask if it was safe for fish and that wasn't the old salts deduction. 

Kurly... definatly add the extra filter... ease up on the ammonia use for now (even too much ammonia is toxic to bacteria) and monitor your levels... you shouldn't be too much longer with the fishless cycle now... just a bit of a delay because of not enough O2 for all the bacteria in there.


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks  I added the extra filter. Some water has evaporated from the tank but I decided not to replace it. There is more circulation of water with both filters going and the water level being a little lower so I hope that helps some. The sound of the splashing is kind of loud but the tank is in a room that I am not in that much so the sound won't drive me too crazy.

I am not adding anymore ammonia to the tank for now. I do have another question to ask. When I do get a 0 ammonia reading again, how much ammonia am I supposed to add to the tank in order to keep the cycle going as if fish were in the tank producing it?


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

someone told me to cut back to 1ppm as i had the same issues as you.
I was told that ammonia in itself is also used as a cleaner and is a strong chemical that kills germs( bacteria)


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks for the info mousey. My ammonia did go down to about .25 when I checked it this morning so I added enough to raise it up to 1.0 today. 
I know every cycle is different but how long did it take for you to complete your cycle after you reduced you ammonia input to 1?


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

It was about another week and a half AND when I added my first fish I had a mini cycle for the first few days. I only have small fish like platys. SO even when you add your first fish keep checking the levels for a few days and take the appropriate action;-) 
Some people have a lot of problems using the fish free cycle-- I have never had much luck with it going smoothly and I kind of think it has to do with the type of water we have. Also you are never really sure what concentration that bottled ammonia comes in.


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

I tested my PH today in addition to the other tests and it has gone down to 6.0  My tap water registers 7.2 PH and my tank is usually around 7.0 PH I think that for some reason the low PH is causing my cycle to stall. Am I right about that? If so, how do I get my PH back up to where is was before. I have heard that you shouldn't mess with the PH but evidently something in the proccess of my cycle has altered my PH so I may not have a choice but to try and raise it back.

This is really starting to get on my nerves.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> low PH is causing my cycle to stall. Am I right about that? If so, how do I get my PH back up


 The cycle stalling is not necessarily related to the falling pH. What kind of fish are planning on keeping? If discus and tetras, leave it alone. If the pH falls off in the cycling tank, you most likely have low hardness and pH will fall keep dropping off even when you have fish. Look at SeaChem's Neutral regulator. It does a good job of holding the pH stable, but it could mess with your test results (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) because it contains Prime. And that would kind of mess up the whole fishless cycling thing. pH 6 is still ok for cycling, but if 6 is the bottom of your test range, it could be lower.


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

My PH seems to be different every time I check it. I am planning on keeping Pygmy Gouramis, Pygmy Cory Cats, and Pygmy Rasboras in my tank whenever it finishes cycling. 

It was as high as 8.0 early in my cycle and now 6.0 or lower because 6.0 is the lowest number on my card. I guess I need to read up on PH and the cycle process because I have no clue why it increases or decreases. Guess I have been focusing so much on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate that I didn't read up on PH.

I am going to just forget about it right now because I am getting myself more frustrated by the day. I really don't want to add any chemicals in my tank if it will mess up the fishless cycle. That would be 3 weeks wasted so I'll just leave it alone I guess. I appreciate the information you have given me.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The safest thing you can do is change some water. Its not really needed during fishless cycling, because you have no fish. But if you do one big water change (you'll need to add more ammonia) and then change water like you would when cycling is done (30% a week or whatever) you have an idea as to whether your pH is unstable before you add fish.


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

Okay, I'll do that before I try anything else. I didn't know that you could change your water in the middle of a fishless cycle. I'll do that tomorrow and be sure to check everything before I change the water and then after the water change. 

I am quickly finding out that each case is very different and you just have to learn what works or doesn't work best for your individual tank. I'm just glad that I don't have any fish in my tank right now. I would hate for them to suffer and die through all of this.

On the bright side of things, at least the plants in my tank are still alive and healthy


----------



## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I love fishless cycling for just this very reason. I cycled my first tank with fish and OMG I felt so horrible when I started loosing them that I almost quit the hobby! My second tank was cycled fishless with a shrimp prawn. That went so smoothly! It took me about 3 and a half weeks (only a 10 gallon tank) and I didn't worry about anything at all. When I set up the big tank I am hoping on getting (75-90 gallon Cichlid tank) I will fishless cycle. I have extra media on my 20 Ga right now so when I set up that tank I can just move it over.


----------



## Kurly (Jul 31, 2007)

That's what I plan to do when I finally get my 75 gallon tank. I have another filter running on the tank I am cycling now. I will be very happy to have some cycled media in my next tank whenever I do get it. Hopefully it will make it easier and faster than this right now!

I know I must be patient but man, sometimes this is very hard!


----------



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

lol... yes patients does wear thin after 3 weeks doesn't it. 

I think your pH problem can be solved farily easily. Test your alkalinity. if its low... pick a pH you want and then get a buffer that keeps it at that pH.

if its high well then that would definately be a puzzle.


----------

