# how many africans in a 10 gal?



## 581416 (Mar 31, 2009)

how many small malawi africans (about 3 inches) could you fit in a ten gallon?

thank you


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The question isn't how many, its how long. After a few months, then they will need a bigger tank. Get a 55 now and be done with it. If you are going to keep them in it for life the answer is one.


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## 581416 (Mar 31, 2009)

i was thinking about getting some rustys or maybe some rams


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## mschmoyer (Jan 4, 2009)

581416 said:


> i was thinking about getting *A* rusty or maybe *a* ram


Agreed. Cichlid(s) won't do well at all in a 10g.


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## FlatLine (Dec 30, 2008)

Any cichlid, even dwarf cichlids will not do well in a 10g.


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## SouthernBelle23 (Mar 24, 2009)

Do some research on Shell dwellers....specifically Neolamprologus multifasciatus. They are from the African Rift Lakes, and could live in a 10g.


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## Mysteryimpt (Jun 17, 2009)

Yeah Cichlids definitely need a large tank 55G is a good start wen I 1st got my cichlids i put around 17-20 1inch-2inch cichlids in a 15G tank...and i lost 3 kennies thats when I learnt it the hard way since then I kept changing water every 3-5 days. Once I had enough money I got a 65Gal tank for them and they are really good in there. I put a Aquatech canister filter and 55gal aqua clear filter. They seem good for last 2 months. Any one have any advice feel free please. Thanks


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## petlovingfreak (May 8, 2009)

Don't bother with a 10 gallon and cichlids. Get a 55 or even a 30 gallon. Go on craigslist.org, I've got many setups from people off there for very cheap!


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## ivwarrior (Jul 27, 2008)

Don't get a 55. I have one. Hate it. If you're getting a 4 foot long tank, get at least a 75. Then, you at least have a decent amount of space between the front and back glass to aquascape.


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## RLHam3 (Sep 17, 2008)

sorry but i don't think any african cichlids can be housed comfortably in a 10gal.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have kept and bred a number of species of african cichlids in 10 gallon tanks..
julidochromis ornatus....neolamprologus brichardi and a couple of others..
it's all in how you do it.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

A ram is not an african cichlid. Totally different water requirements.


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## carr65 (Nov 21, 2009)

well i have a 20 gal long that is loaded with africans ,cobolts,labs,etc... i have plent of rocks for them to hide in and no problems . my filter is filtering 600 gals per hour you do the math for how many gals in 24 hours is filtered and you will get 14400 in 24 hours. you can keep africans in a 10 gal as long as you filter enough water to maintain the amount of fish you put in ,overkilling the filtration won't harm the fish it will keep the water quality perfect . when you start an african chilid tank you have to load the tank up with fish from the get go to avoid them from establishing dominance and killing any fish you add to the tank.


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

Anything under 75g imo is unsuitable.


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## rrcoolj (Jun 29, 2009)

"african cichlid" is a really broad category. The standard for keeping mbunas is 55 but other fish like julies, leleupi, and shell dwellers can be kept in tanks as small as a 20. You want to give as much room for your fish as possible don't try to cram them in the smallest tank you have give them room to grow. Besides mulites 10 gallon is only usefull as a fry tank period. Yeah you can do this and that but will you fish be happy? Probably not.

oh and carr65 please put your fish in an appropriate size tank. Any one of the fish you listed by itself would fill a 10 gallon. SO im guessing they are very small which brings me back to my point long term 10 gallons just won't cut it.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I used to breed my L.marlieris in a 20 all the time, but I'd never try to keep mbuna in a 10. Sure, they look cute at walMart when you see 50 of them in a tiny little tank, but each one can grow to a six-inch monster, or bigger, in a year or two.


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## carr65 (Nov 21, 2009)

it is the correct tank size for my fish ,i have been keeping africans for years now and i know what i'm doing ,they are fine and i have no problems .what is wrong with a 10 or 20 gal african tank ? you can keep a bunch of them in the tank as klong as you have enough water filtration per hour read my post again my filter is filtering 600 gals of water per hour so in 24 hours the filter is filtering a billion times the amount of water in the tank . filtration is the key to keeping fish alive . i even have a 10 gal saltwater tank with clown fish,yellow tangs,coral beauties ,and damsels in it .that tank has been running since 2001 no fish have died and everything is perfect why because i overkill the filtration and thats what is working . i always set up my fish tanks with a filter that is for more gallons of water then the tank i'm using it for .


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## rrcoolj (Jun 29, 2009)

It's not a matter of are the fish alive it's almost a matter of how happy can they be. Yellow tangs can grow to 8inches across and are fast swimmers that like to swim far which is why it is often suggested that they be kept in a 4ft tank minimum. Keeping a bunch of 6inch africans in a 10 gallon I could not for the life of me do that they would have no room to establish territories, argue, flare thier fins, graze on algea, which is the reasons why I buy them. Plus I don't care if your filtering a billions gallons of water every hour it dosen't change the fact the the TANK is too small.

And I don't want to come off as an insulting person because I've been there. I wanted to keep my africans in a 10 gallon badly even after being warned against it but I went for the 55 for my fish not me and they are so much happier especially since they will be getting a 90 soon hopefully. I saw somewhere "minumum tank size equals minimum happiness"


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

WOW!
I've read some whoppers around here over the years, but I think we may have a new record.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

carr65 said:


> it is the correct tank size for my fish ,i have been keeping africans for years now and i know what i'm doing ,they are fine and i have no problems .what is wrong with a 10 or 20 gal african tank ? you can keep a bunch of them in the tank as klong as you have enough water filtration per hour read my post again my filter is filtering 600 gals of water per hour so in 24 hours the filter is filtering a billion times the amount of water in the tank . filtration is the key to keeping fish alive . i even have a 10 gal saltwater tank with clown fish,yellow tangs,coral beauties ,and damsels in it .that tank has been running since 2001 no fish have died and everything is perfect why because i overkill the filtration and thats what is working . i always set up my fish tanks with a filter that is for more gallons of water then the tank i'm using it for .


Flow rate is probably the least usefull, most over-rated, over hyped, and over-marketed aspect of filter performance.
Filter media volume, filter biomedia surface area, filter biomedia retention rate all matter more than flow rate. commercial aquaculturists don't look at flow rate - they look at nitrification capacity.
A properly sized filter will completely detoxify ammonia and nitrate just as effectively as an oversized filter - and if the flow rate it too high it will actually hinder nitrification rather than encourage it. Oversized filters do nothing for nitrate, which are a much bigger problem long-term when overcrowding cichlids. 

Thus, when overcrowding cichlids, a much more import aspect than filter flow rate is water change rate and percentage - how many gallons are you changing per week (or even per day in severely overstocked systems).
Followed of course by aquarium substrate surface area - in this case, substrate referring to caves, rockwork, etc, not gravel. With sufficient hard decor, mbuna can be crowded quite effectively assuming total dissolved nitrogen is kept low.

But anybody who advocates a 10g tank for mbuna has no place giving advice any more than my uncle should advocate drunk driving just because he hasn't killed anybody (yet).

I'm trying to pretend I didn't hear the part about torturing _Zebrasoma _in 10g tanks - did you get bored pulling the wings off flies ? 
What's next - telling us about the parrot you keep in a hamster cage or the doberman in a birdcage ?

Good advice is advice that will work 90+% of the time, for 90+% of the people who try it, and is based on sound scientific principles of animal husbandry, usually backed by years of experience in the hobby or business aspects of aquarium keeping. 
Bad advice is based on anecdotal evidence such as "I did this once and its fine, so you can too". Often based on mis-informed pronouncements based on the marketing drivel put out by product manufacturers, or a misguided attempt to equate fishkeeping with stamp-collecting (ie "the person who can put the most fish in their tank wins" syndrome).

Back to the original poster - I would recommend shell dwellers like multi's or similis if you want a rift lake cichlid in a 10g tank, mbuna need too much space.
In a 20g long I would try some of the other small Lake Tanganyika cichlids - brichardi's, julie's, etc - but in a 10g it's going to be hard to keep mbuna healthy.


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## guppyart (Jan 22, 2005)

carr65 said:


> it is the correct tank size for my fish ,i have been keeping africans for years now and i know what i'm doing ,they are fine and i have no problems .what is wrong with a 10 or 20 gal african tank ? you can keep a bunch of them in the tank as klong as you have enough water filtration per hour read my post again my filter is filtering 600 gals of water per hour so in 24 hours the filter is filtering a billion times the amount of water in the tank . filtration is the key to keeping fish alive . i even have a 10 gal saltwater tank with clown fish,yellow tangs,coral beauties ,and damsels in it .that tank has been running since 2001 no fish have died and everything is perfect why because i overkill the filtration and thats what is working . i always set up my fish tanks with a filter that is for more gallons of water then the tank i'm using it for .


*gasps for air in shock and passes out over the horror he has just read*

and to agree no 10g  get something nice and big and lovely, everyone loves bigger tanks and africans, it looks so much more natural, i still have dreams about the one local hobbyists basement tank, 700gallons and pure africans most beautiful african tank I have seen yet


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## Cam (Nov 9, 2009)

redpaulhus said:


> Flow rate is probably the least usefull, most over-rated, over hyped, and over-marketed aspect of filter performance.
> Filter media volume, filter biomedia surface area, filter biomedia retention rate all matter more than flow rate. commercial aquaculturists don't look at flow rate - they look at nitrification capacity.
> A properly sized filter will completely detoxify ammonia and nitrate just as effectively as an oversized filter - and if the flow rate it too high it will actually hinder nitrification rather than encourage it. Oversized filters do nothing for nitrate, which are a much bigger problem long-term when overcrowding cichlids.
> 
> ...


This needed to be said! Thanks!


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## TRIGGERMAN (Dec 3, 2009)

*The solution!*

ok ok here's what you do..you take 50 6" frontosas and you put them in a 10 gallon for a long happy healthy life.:withstup:


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