# marine set-up Q?



## Arlene

Hi All
I have decided to setup a marine aquarium, i have kept 2 FW aquariums now for just about a year and i have always fancied trying the marine. I have 120L FW aquarium up and running and a 60L empty (not new) i was planning to transfer the water and fish from the 120 into the 60 and use the 120 for the marine (after a good clean). The gravel i have is fine gravel, could i use this gravel in the marine with a layer of live sand on top? I have had no diseases in the tank. I wont be doing this for another 5 weeks as i am buying all the equipment weekly. Also how many fish do you think i could keep in the 120..i plan to get 8kg of live rock..is this enough? The fish i would like are: tangs, damsels.
Thanx.


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## Fishfirst

well welcome to your foray in the salty sea. First and formost is your question about using aquarium gravel for substrait, I'd opt for just argonite based sand and a few pounds or kg's of live sand. Also if you plan on keeping liverock your going to need some higher powered lights, I'd suggest pc's if you don't mind not getting corals and anemones (anemones are tough to keep and probably shouldn't be in aquariums like ours) also a qt tank (a 10 gallon basic setup with nothing but a filter, heater, and a pvc pipe works well and is cheap) should be high on your list of purchases. I would also consider a skimmer.

Your fish choice. Keeping sw is all about compatebility and tank size. First off you mention tangs.... interestingly enough, you picked one of the most active and larger fish in the marine hobby. Tangs get around 8-20 inches in length and you should have at least 90 gallons for the smallest sized ones. Whats even worse is, small tangs have a dismal survival record, so growing them out and giving them away should be avioded. Secondly, damsels, although beautiful when young, often turn into brown, black, and gray fish as adults, and whats worse, is there additude and territoriality. They can harrass most other fish to death. I'd stay away from damsels. 

Luckily, there are plenty of species that you could keep. 

Check out:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=755 <-- tank bred, very hardy
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=53 <-- one of my personal favs.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=85 <-- schooling species
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=1636 <-- especially the firefish and purple firefish
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=1852 <-- I love the yellow watchman goby
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=1850 <-- anything but the catalina gobies
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=1637 <-- jawfish are intersting
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=113 <-- keep singly (they get mean to eachother when they grow up)
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=438 <-- one of the biggest fish I can suggest

Oh and don't forget the invertibrates that keep your tank cleaner
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=696
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=621
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1963
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=623
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=735
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1159 <-- actually you could buy some from me if you want .25 cents each plus shipping.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1133
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=563


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## Arlene

Thanks for your reply. I have already priced the equipment i will need:

protein skimmer, external filter, powerhead, heater, timer and lightsx2 1 white 1 blue.

I will check out the fish you have suggested as i havnt made up my mind about the fish yet i would need to investigate them further. 
Thanx

Thanks for the offer of you selling me some but since i live in Scotland ..i dont think its such a good idea lol.


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## Fishfirst

oh, right, metric, doh! here's the thing about lights... you need more than N.O. florescents to keep liverock healthy. I would definately consider PC lights or "Power Compact" lights. This will bring up the intensity of the bulb and allow you to keep liverock kickin'


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## Arlene

I will look into those...thankyou.

Heres a question that i didnt think of until now. You said (something like) SINCE you are keeping liverock...... I thought to go marine you HAD to have liverock? I always just assumed this and didnt look into it. Is this right?


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## Arlene

Me again...sorry.

Ok, i have managed to grasp everything for this set-up...querentine(sp) tank for fish..gravel/sand..protein skimmer..external filter...powerhead...live rock im just going to go half real and half fake. I dont really want live rock but i am going to have it since it benefits the fishies. 
The thing i cannot get my tiny brain around is the lights.

You see on my aquarium i have built in beech unit and hood. When i set it up as FW i had to screw brackets either end of the hood for the bulb. Now...i know that doing things right outweighs the look factor, but i really like the hood plus the fact that i have paid for it. Is there no way i can use the hood and buy other bulbs to use? Or do i have to buy one of these over hanging light things lol. The bulb i have just now is 18watt Arcadia tropical lamp. Arcadia also sells Marine blue actinic 18watt and Marine white lamp 9500k it says thast you can use both for marine fish and corals?? 
Fishfirst ....i know you have already told me i need pc lighting and i appreciate you helping me...i just thought i would ask this question before i go out and buy something that i dont really want. Also i dont want to be drilling holes into the ceiling. 

Thankyou.


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## Arlene

And one other thing..Is a cowfish ok to keep in this kind of set-up?

Thankyou


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## Fishfirst

pc lighting comes in fixtures retros and hoods... the thing to look at is how many watts you've got. Usually liverock is fine under 2-4 watts per gallon of water (of coarse it largely depends on other things too such as spectrum lumenosity, how deep the tank is, ect but really watts is a good indicator of how much light you really have, and more light the better) You can probably use the lighting you have now + the pc's, so your fixture isn't useless.

Cowfish, although very interesting, generally aren't good choices for fish tanks. The problem with cowfish are, they secrete toxins when they are stressed, dying, or dead. This can completely whipe out a system... I even had a reefer tell me that the tank he had never got rid of the toxin and every fish he put in there from then on died within hours (he cleaned it, ran carbon ect) Sooooo, if you are willing to take the risk, then by all means, cowfish are very cool fish and sometimes well worth the risk. That is, after you get your feet wet in this stuff, it wouldn't be my first fish in the tank, and I'd probably wait till you have a larger tank, most cowfish get pretty big.


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## Arlene

When you say 2-4 watt per gal do you mean US gal or UK gal. Well anyway its 26.4 UK gal. Its 60cm deep. I will go to the shop tomorrow and see what kind of bulbs they have to offer me. I wont bother with the cowfish it was my 4 yr old son that was very keen on getting it, but i think i will just leave it for now.

Thanks again!! (sorry for all the Qs i just want to make sure i know what im doing)


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## Arlene

Ok...This could be a very silly question but ...
Do you wash live sand first before adding to aquarium?

I now have everything to set up marine aquarium except the lights (where i cant get anywhere) but wasnt sure about the sand.

Thanx.


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## TheOldSalt

NO!!!!!!
If you wash it, it won't be alive anymore.


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## Fishfirst

Yep, don't rinse it, its perfect the way it is! I'd put it in a cup that you've rinced out and dried, then scoop up the sand and put your hand over the mouth of the cup. Then put the live sand down on the bottom of your tank and release your hand and let the sand settle at the very bottom instead of letting it float all over the tank by just dumping it in.


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## Arlene

Thanx...that is what i thought but i was just checking.


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## Arlene

Ok...I went to the only marine shop in my city i spoke to the assistant who has a marine tank at home, he walked me round and filled my basket with this and that. I have so far...sander maxi 300 protein skimmer, interpet air pump, aquarjet 600 powerjet, Aquapro 740lph external filter. I still have to get some live sand /sand, live rock and lights 2x39watt t5 lights. (i have ordered the lights and sand)
Thats it? I couldnt help feeling he was on a selling mission so if theres anything there anyone sees fault with let me know..its all unopened therfor returnable.

Also Fishfirst..you mentioned the way of putting the sand into the tank without it floating about in the tank..i put the sand in before the water?? No? Maybe i read your post wrong.
Thanx for your help.


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## Arlene

Anyone????


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## TheOldSalt

They all sound lovely, but I'm not familiar with those european brands so I don't know anything about them.
Those lights will be okay for fish, but not for many live rock type critters/algae. You might get red slime as a result, but probably not.


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## Arlene

Well...I only have 1 marine fish store in my city so today i drove to Edinburgh to see about lights and sand. I did a google on the net and saw what looked a great marine store called the aquatic centre. After 1and a half hour drive i found it. They didnt have a clue!! First they tried to sell mea 4 foot light for a 3ft tank then a small one. When i questined the 2x24watt bulbsfor it, he told me they would be fine for keeping live rock and soft corals. After the drive i was a bit gutted and decided to make my way back home empty handed. On the road home i passed a shop called Aquatic Rooms...wow they were much better and new exactly what they were talking about. So i ordered my lights and sand for picking up some day next week. I always expected staff who work in a specialised field new their stuff...obviously i was wrong.


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## Fishfirst

put water in before the livesand. Then use a cup and lower it with your hand on top of it so it won't go into suspension. If you just dump it in, a lot of the smaller particles will be in the water column and can cloud your water for a few days.


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## Arlene

Ok...Thanx for the help...It is much appreciated.


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## Arlene

I am just about ready to set up my tank. The local marine shop is about a 15 minute drive from me..they sell RO water and pre salted RO water. I was planning on using their salted water to set the tank up then after that salt my own water for water changes..but here is the thing...How do i initially fill the tank? I will have to buy water at about 20 litres at a time as that will be all i can carry...therfor this will take me 6 journeys. Is this right? Or am i missing some solution? How did yous fill your tank for first use?


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## TheOldSalt

The first fill can be a big pain, but even in your situation of having to make many trips, it's not one you can avoid. I would recommend the presalted water *IF* the store has it presalted to the correct level of saltiness and at the correct temperature. If the water is fine in these regards, then filling the tank is simple. Just pour about half of the water into the tank, add your rock and/or sand, and finish filling up to the top.
If you have rock as well as sand, it helps a bit to put the rock down first and pour the sand around them. Putting the rocks down over a layer of sand results in a "dead spot" in your sand under each rock. If you don't have rocks, then there's no problem.
After the tank is filled, install your filters and heater. Do not plug in the heater for about a half-hour, though, in order to allow it's internal thermostat to adjust to the current temperature. While on the subject, always unplug the heater for at least 15 minutes before draining water from the tank, in order to prevent it from breaking.
After the pumps are installed, turn them on and let the tank run for a day to settle in a bit. Check everything the next day to make sure that everything is still the way it should be, and from then on you're ready to go.

We americans usually mix our own water instead of buying it premixed. If it's the first fill, we just fill the tank with water and add salt a bit at a time, letting it dissolve fully and checking the results with a hydrometer until it's in the correct salinity range. Then we set up the pumps and let it run for a day to aerate before doing much else. After a final check to see if everything is still where it should be, or after making needed adjustments, the tank is THEN ready for the sand & rocks. That's very important. Do not add live sand or live rocks to a tank in which the water is not correct in salinity or temperature.


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## Fishfirst

can you buy 2, 5 gallon buckets (20L?) at a store and take your car fill them all, that way its only two trips? At least that would be what I would do. Make one or two trips with big buckets of water sealed with water proof caps.


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## Arlene

Ok...Thankyou very much your posts were very helpful..The store phoned me today to say there is a delay on my lights and they will not be available until next week now....I hate delays!


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## Arlene

I have everything in the tank good to go. I went and got the water today and half filled the tank. I got a cup and poured the sand into the tank over my hand but i dont think i did this right as the water is very cloudy...i cant even see through the water. I have the filter running so this should help with the water?...I am not going to add the live sand until tomorrow so hopefully the cloudiness will be away by then....but will probably come back when i add the LS. I will then add the rest of the water and rock...leave for a few days and my my first fish..does this sound ok? I did try rinsing the sand but how do u successfully rinse sand without losing all of it?..i just put the sand in a bucket then left the tap running for a while turning out the old water ...


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## TheOldSalt

Don't rinse live sand for any reason.

Dead sand you can rinse in a bucket. Swirl it about until most of the cloudiness is gone, but take care to keep the sand itself from escaping the bucket.

Cloudiness is normal and eventually disappears.


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## Fishfirst

yep, give it a few days and it'll settle down...


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## Arlene

Ok more xxxxx problems! I hooked everything up to the tank and all was ok. Then one of my bulbs went out. I changed the bulbs round to make sure it wasnt the bulb and it was ok. I unhooked the lights and fitted both bulbs again...they worked...i put them back onto the aquairium and after about 20 minutes the bulb went off again. The bulb is still heating up so there is still power getting to the bulb. This is just great as i had to order the flaming thing and wait 2 weeks for it..and i have the live sand in the tank!! Im glad i held off from buying the rock. Any suggestions? I have phoned Arcadia and they were going to ring me back as he said this was very unusual to have one working and one not ....but no phone call yet. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## TheOldSalt

There are a few possibilities, ranging from a loose wire, a bad bulb, or a bad ballast.
Yep. Good thing you don't yet have the rock.


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## Arlene

Well....I should be ready to add my first fish in a few days...woohoo!!

My water is just about clear, im adding live rock tomorrow. Here is a list of fish i would like to have, could you tell me what you think i wouldd be best to go with and what to add first and last.

clown fish, yellow goby, algae blenny, triggerfish (but i dont think i can have that?) some shrimps maybe fire or sexy blue legged hermit sand sifting starfish. Now what could i go with from that list?


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## Arlene

After waiting 2 days for my water to clear its gone cloudy again. I unplugged the filter by mistake so i had to pump it to get the syphon going again and when the filter came on all the water went cloudy again....its like watered down milk. How long does it take for the sand to completely settle?..will it cloud the water everytime something is done like the filter going on?

Also i have been reading other posts about setting up a new tank...will i get an alge bloom at the begining?

Sorry for all the questions.


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## Fishfirst

Fish list: the only thing I wouldn't go with would be the trigger... they can be nasty fish, and they get too big for your tank.

Kinda sounds like some of the bacteria died in the filter and when you turned it back on they went into your water column... not positive on this but it could have happened... anyway, this is temperary (a week or so) and I'd get liverock anyway in a few days or so.

Algae blooms are definately headed your way, live through them by doing your water changes on a schedule, keeping the front of your glass clean. (don't worry about the other sides of glass)


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## Arlene

After watching the filter for a bit i think that there may be some sand particles in the filter...the water will be clearing then the filter will make a funny noise (like its struggling to pump) then a burst of cloudy water will come out the holes. (i know this is not making much sense but its hard to explain) Would it be ok for me to rinse out the foam in the filter at this stage?


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## leveldrummer

only rinse it with water from the tank when you do a water change (not water in the tank, water from the tank in a bucket) you should NEVER rinse it anywhere else!! you can also take the filter out, leave it in a bucket, (just make sure it doesnt dry out) and wash out the filter box. if there is sand in it. i would do that before it ruins your impeller. (little spinny thing) maybe even shorten your intake tube a little bit. you can just take the end off, cut the pipe with a hacksaw or bread knife or something, and then put the end back on. (you want it around 6 " off the bottom.)


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## Arlene

I think i know whats causing my water to be cloudy. I filled a bucket of water from the tank and emptied the filter...there was a lot of chalky stuff on the bottom of the filter and the water was almost white. I rinsed the foam out in the bucket and then i seen the bottom media in the bottom filter, it is white kinda charcoal/chalky stuff (hollow) should i have rinsed this before putting it in?...because i didnt. Could this be causing my water to cloud? as it is not settling at all. Do you think i should take out most of the water and start again with a new lot? I feel really dumb now.  I emptied the water from the filter and filled it with water from the tank. 

Any suggestions?
thanx:


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## TheOldSalt

Just leave it alone, and it'll clear up eventually.


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## Arlene

Well...After 2 weeks of cycling i think i am just about there, i can finally see some light at the end of the tunnel.

My readings are:

Phosphate 0.25
Ph 8.2
Nitrite 0.1 (this is the lowest on the chart ..so i would say it was 0)
Nitrate under 5
Amonia 0
Calcium 220-240
salinity 1.021
Temp 25.5 

I just have to wait till the Nitrate drops to 0..then monitor for a few days...THEN ADD A WEE FISHY????

Im sitting in dread of the algae bloom should i put some clean-up crew in?
I have bought some Phos-zorb anyone used this before?

Arlene


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## Fishfirst

a clean up crew would be a good investment at this point in time, as well as a first fish possibly a week or two later.


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## Arlene

Hi all..Tank has been up and running for over a month now, all is going good but im starting to get the algae bloom ive heard people talking about. I clean the front and sides daily, do i clean the green algae off the back wall or just let it run its course?


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## Fishfirst

I let it run its coarse in my own tanks and I get nice coraline algae build up eventually.


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