# White Cloudy Tank Water and new fish dying!!!



## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm recently having a problem with white cloudy water. I have a 25 gallon tank with an Emperor 400 Power filter on it. 

The contents include: 1 pleco, 7 neon tetras, 3 male guppies, 5 female guppies, 2 halloween tetras (I'm not sure of the actual name, that's what the pet store had them marked as), and 1 female platy. Yesterday I went to the LPS and replaced the male play that died and also picked up on more female to breed. They both passed away by the time I got up this morning. I also have 9 live plants. Two days ago I added the 2 platys (one of which is dead now) and 5 of the female guppies, also there were 6 glass shrimp added to. I had to add more water to the tank and used a water conditioner on the water I added. This tank has been set up for almost 9 months now. 

Right now I'm going to do a 25% water change to see if that helps. But I wanted to get so input on what you thought was the problem. I know I'm a tad over the 1 gallon of water for 1 inch of fish, but I figured that b/c of the size of my filter on that small of a tank, it could handle it. 

I tested the water and the results are as follows: 

PH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

Any input is greatly appreciated!!!


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## DavidAl (Nov 17, 2009)

This sounds like a heterotrophic bacteria issue. If it is, you're probably feeding too much. When there is a build up of organic substance, a certain type of bacteria, which has very little to do with the nitrifying bacteria, will multiply at an exuberant rate in order to consume the organics. When the level of organics is reduced, the level of heterotrophic bacteria will begin to die off. Once this happens you should start seeing the water clear up.

I would dramatically reduce the amount of feeding taking place, and do lots of water changes with an emphasis on gravel vacs. Vac around the plants so as to not disturb the roots. The goal here is to eliminate uneaten food and fish waste. Once things settle, continue to feed just enough to provide the plants with nitrogen, but not enough to have a bacterial bloom rebound.

David


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Your pH is 8? Wow.
That probably isn't helping. Your new fish might be suffering from shock, unless the petshop's water is also 8. Of course, at that pH any ammonia will be especially toxic.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

How should I lower it? I've heard the using chemicals only mask the problem, and an RO unit is a bit to much for my budget at this point in time. 

I've heard that ph doesn't really mater as long as it's constant, is this true? I have also see peoples ph go down after they've started CO2 injection. I have a DIY CO2 injector but it currently not running yet. Will this lower the ph when it gets going again?

Thanks for all of you help!!!


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2009)

*lower ph naturally*

*Anything you do along the shotgun approach, will likey be stressful to your fish.
Adding chemicals to lower the ph will work for that tankful only, so its a never ending job to adjust every drop of water you add to replace for evaporation, or the massive amounts you add at water change time which is gonna have to be done.
With a ph that high id say your alkalinity is of the chats as well, and your water is being buffered to resist any changes you might try to make chemically. 
CO2 will gradually adjust ph but thats a long term process, as is using materials such as Peat or Oak leaves in your filter.
Fish indeed are quite adaptable as was mentioned earlier, but the shock to the fish, going from LFS water to your water so suddenly will surely shock any new additions dramatically, the acclimation process has to be gradual for it to work.
As bad as i hate to say it, i think either a R/O unit or purchase drinking water from your source of choice, the least expensive is from a supplier in 5 gallon containers, could be your only salvation. 
*


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I think your tests are suspect. Ammonia/ nitrite = 0 is great. Nitrate = 0 is odd. You will always have some nitrate unless you have a lot of really healthy plants.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Nothing wrong with 8 for platies and guppies. But acclimation is important for new fish and if you have any suspicion that your tank isn't quite right yet (like cloudy water or dead fish) you should wait a few weeks before adding more fish.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

Will a Brita Filter work? I read that they have ion exchange Resin in the filters, along with activated carbon. 

They say that "Due to the sensitivity of many tropical fish to even the smallest changes in water quality or conditions, such as temperature and pH, as BRITA advises consumers not to use filtered water for tropical fish without consulting a specialist." 

But it does seem like it would work.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

jmowbray said:


> without consulting a specialist."


I would consider you guy/gals the specialist on this subject.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

Can any of you guys tell me what kind of fish is in the first picture? Not the platy but the pink one in the center. That's the one that was labeled as a Halloween Tetra, is that the real name? 

Also the second picture in the tank that were/I'm dealing with at the moment.


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## DavidAl (Nov 17, 2009)

It looks like a color morph of the black skirt tetra, _Gymnocorymbus ternetzi_. It does not look painted, but fish stores do sell the painted kind, which I'm totally against.

David


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

OH MAN!!!! I feel really bad now. I wish I would have new that before I purchased them. Thanks for the info though.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Brita uses that label to keep from getting sued in case someone suddenly makes a 90% water change with Brita-filtered water in a tank that previously used normal raw tapwater. Something like that would indeed be very bad for the fish. However, just changing 10% every day for a week should be perfectly safe. That should lower your alkalinity/buffering quite a but, and that in turn should let your pH start to drop gradually. Your tetras will love it.

By the way, how are the plants doing? They might actually be the main cause of your cloudiness if they are rotting. They should otherwise normally help keep your water clear, since they eat up all the food that the bacteria normally would. Less bacteria food = less bacteria = less cloudy water.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

The plants are good and thriving. I just removed the bulbs that didn't sprot, that could be the cause of it. I changed the water last night and put the new water in and the water was really cloudy after the water change and still cloudy this morning. I thing I'm going to change the filter setup and get a sponge filter. The guppies are really having a hard time holding their groud at night, if you know what I mean.  Do you think this would be a wise idea? I was looking at this one:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3936&pcatid=3936
My current filter agitats the water to much, it's like a white water rafting trip on the top of my tank.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

Well I have some great news!!!!  I went up town today to get a Brita Pitcher. I ran the water though it and tested it; the results were 6.3 for ph. So with every thing in my tank it should come to around 7ppm when it's all said and done.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Yikes 6.3 down from 8.0. Watch the fish because that will not be good, Too drastic. Unless that was over a few days. That might not be too bad. But it looks like it was overnight given the dates of your posts. 

I have Ph of 8.0 out of the tap and really don't have any problems with it. I did initially because I was not doing a slow acclimation. Then I would loose 1 fish out of every set I put in there. It was weird. Now that I take at least an hour to acclimate, and often much more, it is not a problem. I do a gradual remove/replace process. I put the bag water into a container with the fishies. I then add almost as much tank water, but not quite. I add that water slowly over 15-20 minutes. Then I let it sit for 15 or 20 minutes and remove half of that, then fill that half back up. I repeat this several times until there is more tank water than bag water (3-4 times) then I put them in the tank (none of that water goes with them, just the fish themselves). No problems 

The fish, including my tetra's, are acting happy. They are now 2.5 years old so I assume they are handling the water just fine. The water in the tanks do lower some depending on the tank. My 20 gallon is close to 7.4 now, with driftwood. My 100 gallon remains around 7.8-8.0. It has driftwood but also a bunch of granite. Lots and lots of granite. That keeps it up there. I do loose fish on occasion but not anything regular. It is possible that the Ph plays a part in a disease taking hold once it is there, but there is no way to test that. I loose at about the same rate in both the 20 and the 100. It's usually 1 fish in about 6-7 months, sometimes longer. In the 2 years I have had the 100 gallon up and running I have lost 1 Rosy Barb and 1 Giant danio. I lost all of the german blue rams when I put those in. But I put those in very early on and the tank wasn't stable yet. I lost all of them inside 6 months. Ph very likely played a part in those due to the GBRs not liking higher Ph and seem to actually care about it even if it is stable.


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## jmowbray (Jul 3, 2008)

No I'm sorry. I'll be getting the water down over the period of a week. Sorry for the confusion.


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