# Tank near window?



## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi, I'm setting up a new 55 gallon tank in my basement. I intend to stock it with a pair of convict cichlids at first (so I can study and enjoy their breeding behavior), and then maybe more South American cichlids once the tank is stable or the convicts have had their first brood.

Unfortunately, the location I would like to put the tank in is under a small window. If I set the tank up there, I will never open the window, and the window does seem to be pretty flush-tight in the cinder block wall.

But of course I've read that you shouldn't place an aquarium any place where it will be subjected to rapid variations in temperature, like a window or a heat vent. 

But this window won't be opened. So my question is, does that rule rely on the assumption that the window will be opened at times, or is it because windows allow cold air in through the glass even when they're closed?

It goes without saying that I will have a good heater (possibly two heaters -- is this recommended?) and I will monitor the temperature vigorously. But would that be in vain? Is the window a deal-breaker?

Thanks.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

I have never heard you shouldn't keep it near a window because of that but if you have good heaters I would keep it there because they will adjust the temperature. The only thing I would be concerned about near a window is algae.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Thank you for your response. I am a little worried about algae, but the tank will be under the window, so much of the light, if not all, will go over it.

Still, I suspect that I'll have to fight that algae pretty hard, but I don't think it's enough of a reason to redlight this project.

Anybody else have some insights?


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

I would just get a few plecos. Some people told me the convicts won't bother the pleco and they are really good algae eaters.


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

If heat isnt a problem ..not saying it wont but,Is there anyway you can cover it?It would get rid of the direct light problem.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Yeah, I was definitely planning to get at least one pleco, and I'm glad you confirmed that the convicts won't fight it, though I suspected this. Will other cichlids mess with the pleco? And what cichlids should I get besides the convicts?

Does anybody know if it's true that a larger pleco will get rid of more algae faster than a smaller pleco? I've also heard, on the other hand, that a larger pleco will be more lazy and get rid of less algea slower than a smaller pleco. If one of these is true, which one is it?


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

shade2dope said:


> If heat isnt a problem ..not saying it wont but,Is there anyway you can cover it?It would get rid of the direct light problem.


I would prefer not to, but if you guys think it's necessary I can do that.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

I haven't head about the pleco size but i think you should get two, but you should get two big ones so the cichlids don't mess with it. I have heard it is not a good idea to mix fish.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Well, it's a good idea in a community tank, so the question is will the convicts be too aggressive to the other cichlids and vice versa to keep them together.

Two large plecos will be expensive, so I'll have to start with one (unless the algae gets bad, then I'll get another).


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm no expert with cichlids but I am pretty sure they are african right? So just keep other african cichlids in there with them and they should be fine.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

you can put plecos in with cichlids. Don't get anything that will outgrow your tank. Even bristlenoses or rubberlipped would be fine.


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

Why buy plecos for a problem that can be fixed?If you like plecos then yes get one but if its just for the algue,if you even get it depends on how much light gets to it,not all pleco's eat every kind of algue.The best thing would be to block the window.If you cant is there any where else you can put the tank?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Or just put a backing on the tank that is very solid so the light can't get through.


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

yes that would be good too.but make sure you have a solid top.


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## Ricker (Nov 23, 2007)

One heater might be good as I only have one and it is a 200w heater keeps it at a nice 82 F. Even though I keep on turning it down lol. My tanks is about a foot or two away from a vent. Of course my vents are in the roof if that has anything to do with how the air act. I would cover the window with a nice thick cover or something. As I have had a bad time with algae in one of my 5g tanks cause it was next to a window. I moved it and bam no more algae.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

As I said before the window is above the tank, so very little direct sunlight will hit the tank. None will hit the back. Only the top will be hit, and there will be a cover on the top. So I'm not too worried about the sunlight (although I still might cover the window). I do love plecos and so I'll have at least one in the tank. And ikermalli the cichlids I'm talking about are South American.

Hey, are there any African cichlids I can put in with my Convicts? And what South American cichlids will do well with them?

I forgot to mention another idea I had, which was to have 2 pairs of convict cichlids, and set them up with one flower pot and one bunch of plants on each side of the 55 gallon with a big rock or driftwood in the middle. I think it would be really interesting to observe how the 2 families interact. Is it possible for albino Convicts to breed with normal Convicts? Maybe I could have a pair of albinos on one side and a pair of normals on the other. Although this might eliminate inter-brood adoption which is an event I want to see. What do you guys think of this idea?

Thanks for the replies.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

It is my understanding that it is best not to mix New World Cichlids with Africans because their "body language" is too different. They do not understand each others colors and behavior which causes problems.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Okay, then I won't. But what about other South American cichlids. Will oscars work? How long will it take before they're too big for the 55?

Also I edited my reply before this so check that out again.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

See, I told you I'm no expert with cichlids


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

John said:


> Okay, then I won't. But what about other South American cichlids. Will oscars work? How long will it take before they're too big for the 55?
> 
> Also I edited my reply before this so check that out again.


I don't think you should get an Oscar, I have read that they are more prone to diseases than other fish and you probably wouldn't want your fish getting sick because of your Oscar.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

ikermalli said:


> I don't think you should get an Oscar, I have read that they are more prone to diseases than other fish and you probably wouldn't want your fish getting sick because of your Oscar.


I doubt I'm going to get an oscar, it's just an idea. Does anybody have any other recommendations for South American cichlids that can live with Convicts?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Convicts are American.

Pink convicts (albinos) do breed readily with black (normal) convicts. Fry of albinos of striped fish usually prefer the dark mothers. They are the same species.

Skip the Oscar. A 55 is too small for one long term even alone. Plus the convicts would beat him up.

I would start with a 4-6 fry to give you good odds of a pair. You can mix black and pink, but you can't predict how they will pair off. Convict start breeding at a small size defending a small territory, but they keep getting bigger and meaner. 

Two breeding pairs of cichlids is about all a 55 will hold. I think you might be able to do 2 pairs of convicts or a pair of convicts and a pair of firemouths but ask the American cichlid experts. If things get really ugly, you could divide the tank. You prob. also could keep another kind of fish that doesn't want the bottom of the tank. A group of tetra, live-bearer or danio that swims near the surface. Some of these will eat convict fry which is not a bad thing. 

You can keep a pleco if you give some tubes to hide in, but wait until you actually have algae for it to eat. Skip it if you can, esp. if you get 2 pairs. Plecos also want the bottom of the tank.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Convicts like hard water.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Thanks for the great information emc7.

Could my tank hold more than 4 cichlids if there's only one breeding pair, like a pair of convicts and then 1 each of Firemouth, Salvini, Rainbow, Blue Acara, Port etc.? 

And if I have Tetras or Live-bearers or Danios the cichlids won't eat them?

Also, could I have a scavenger catfish other than a pleco?

One last thing. The filter I'm planning to use for this tank is a HOB canister filter, and I'm worried about fry getting sucked up the intake valve. So where do I find a sponge to put over the intake valve? Will my LFS have one?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

You can use the sponge from an Aqua Clear 20 or 50 (I don't think they have a 30, but they might) replacement sponge. You just slit a hole in it and slip it on over the intake. Works like a charm.


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

Does it decrease the suction/speed/flow of the filter? Are the sponges expensive?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> Could my tank hold more than 4 cichlids if there's only one breeding pair, like a pair of convicts and then 1 each of Firemouth, Salvini, Rainbow, Blue Acara, Port etc.?


 I think so. But you should get all of one sex to avoid mixed pairs. The main thing with Americans is the aggression during breeding. I think a 55 is big enough for the convicts to be satisfied with one corner (or the middle) of the tank. But aggression varies among fish. You should have a 20 high or other tank ready as hospital in case of thrashing. I would recommend this for most American cichlids. Keep an extra foam filter running in the big tank. You can alway go buy a tank and fill it up if you discover a need. 



> if I have Tetras or Live-bearers or Danios the cichlids won't eat them?


 If they can catch them and they fit in the mouth.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm going to have to revise my earlier advise. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=132
This is a good source page and it suggest 6ft for more than one convict pair. I've seen convicts spawn in 10 gallon tanks without killing the other inhabitants, but thats when they are small. The story alway seems to end with one killing the other. As they get larger, they get meaner, so if you are thinking long term, I'd suggest looking at milder C.A. and S.A. cichlids. Like the firemouth, the Acaras and the rest. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=65


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

John said:


> Does it decrease the suction/speed/flow of the filter? Are the sponges expensive?


I have heard you can take a pantyhose and put it over the intake part. I don't think it will decrease the suction/speed/flow of the filter. No the sponges aren't too expensive, I think they are about 4 dollars or something like that.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

John: Please keep in mind wrt this post is that my experience with cichlids is limited to angels.

John: This thread has really "gone on" but I have reviewed the posts in order to attempt a reasonably logical structure to this post.

The problem with placing a tank next to a window is not the light intensity and duration as these can be easily controlled. What cannot be easily controlled is the weekly change in the light intensity and duration.
Having said the above the major factor is the nonuniform distribution of light in the tank.


With respect to the sponge filters I have two and they were "h...l" to get to properly functioning.

Many folks use sponge filters as their primary filtration but I do not (although when properly implemented these are really 1st class).

I use sponge filters in tanks in which fry may appear.


TR


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Sue and TOS:

Please note that at least for me "Thread Tools" does not function on this page.

TR


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Yeah, we frequently run across that. Some pages it works on, some it doesn't. We don't really know why.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

ikermalli: I have used both the sponge and the pantyhose. Trust me, the pantyhose DOES restrict flow. First you have to pull it incredibly tight over the intake, just to keep any flow at all. Then when the little particles start gathering you have a reduction in flow again. With the sponge I have not noticed any significant reduction in flow, although I am sure it reduces it to some extent. And I am sure it would also depend on the sponge one is using. The AC sponges I use are not a problem. I believe Kristin (just1more20) uses the same sponges I do


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## John (Apr 19, 2005)

emc7 said:


> I'm going to have to revise my earlier advise. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=132
> This is a good source page and it suggest 6ft for more than one convict pair. I've seen convicts spawn in 10 gallon tanks without killing the other inhabitants, but thats when they are small. The story alway seems to end with one killing the other. As they get larger, they get meaner, so if you are thinking long term, I'd suggest looking at milder C.A. and S.A. cichlids. Like the firemouth, the Acaras and the rest. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=65


Hmm, then maybe I should change my choice (another reason is that I don't consider Convicts very attractive).

Then again, I'm not thinking long-term, as I have a few other tanks I can set up if I need to. But it would be nice if I didn't have to do that.

I think what I'll do is I'll start with a pair of small convicts, keep them by themselves in the 55 for a while, and then add 1 or 2 more S.A. cichlids, 3 at the most. Probably a Firemouth and some kind of Acara. I think I'll be happy with 4 cichlids and a pleco. From what I've heard so far this sounds like it should be fine for a while, right?

Also, are there any other catfish that I could put in this tank? I love catfish.

"The problem with placing a tank next to a window is not the light intensity and duration as these can be easily controlled. What cannot be easily controlled is the weekly change in the light intensity and duration.
Having said the above the major factor is the nonuniform distribution of light in the tank."

Well, the light will be distributed pretty evenly (if at all, since it will only hit the tank from above and there will be a cover on it). Still though I should probably cover the window just in case.


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