# Just been given 2 goldfish



## Sherida (Jan 16, 2007)

Hi!

I've just been given 2 goldfish by a friend who can't or doesn't want to look after them any more. Being an avid animal lover he knows they will have a good home with me. The problem is, I know nothing. The tank they are in is probably about 2ftx2ftx2ft. It's old, the water is dirty even with the filtration system and there is no heater. I've been looking around this forum and reading all I can, and this seems to be an engrossing hobby! 

My questions are, what size should I be looking at, do I need a heater, and can I start a freshwater aquarium with these 2 little fellas? What kind of fish go well with goldfish, and should I have real plants as opposed to plastic?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but I'd really like to give these 2 as good a life as I can. My friend has also told me he feeds them 2 large pinches of flakes a day, is this right? It seems a little excessive! My last question is, they're both hiding at the back of the tank, is it possible they know they've been moved to another house? 

I hope they'll be happy with me, and please don't flame me for not knowing about fish before I took them on. It was either that or they got flushed  .

Thank you and I look forward to being much more involved in this very knowledgeable forum!

Sherida.


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## thebrick (Dec 20, 2006)

other goldfish go well with them. cant really have tropical fish in with them. as for heater id say yes they are cheap so it shouldnt be a problem. Goldfish grow quite large so as big as you can go i say go with that  Live or plastic is up to you really. Go with the silk fake plants if you go fake. They look more real and they are softer so wont hurt the fish if they happen to rub up against it.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Goldfish are cold water fish and do not need a heater. They can even live in frigid temps.

What kind of goldfish they are will determine how much room they will need. Fancy goldfish will need 20g each at a minimum, and if they are common, comet, koi, etc., they will need a large pond as they will get to be very large. Your tank size right now is about 59g.

Feed just enough that they will eat in about 2-3 minutes and no more. If there is any left, suction it off the gravel.

Begin doing small water changes daily. Not too big as you don't want to shock their system. Get a declorinator like Prime to remove any chlorine or chloramines in the water that will harm them. Clean out the filter by removing the inserts and rising them in fresh, clean water, then put them back in.


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## thebrick (Dec 20, 2006)

I find goldfish are more active in heated water (76-80) In our pond they are sooo much more active in the summer and spring then fall and winter.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

They are coldwater fish, not tropical. For optimal health and long life (which BTW is decades long), they should be in colder water. The warmest they should be in is the mid-70s but upper 60s to low 70s is good.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

thebrick said:


> I find goldfish are more active in heated water (76-80) In our pond they are sooo much more active in the summer and spring then fall and winter.


That's because their body's metabolism naturally slows down in response to the cold weather. In the winter when the water temp goes below 53 degrees (as i recall, i may be a little off with the exact degree) the goldfish slow down and go into almost a hibernation stage until the weather starts to warm up. They also stop feeding. However, the hgih activity you see in the warmer months is normal but i doubt the water temperature is higher that the mid 70s in most cases. Just because they're active in water temps in the 70s doesnt mean that they will be even more active if the temp is raised higher.


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## thebrick (Dec 20, 2006)

our pond in the summer months hits 75 so i dunno. just going by my first hand experience.


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## Sherida (Jan 16, 2007)

*Sorry, made a mistake! Tank is smaller.*

 Due to my extreme tiredness yesterday, I made an error in the tank size. It's actually 18in x10in x10in. Using an aquarium calculator I understand this is 7.79 US gallons. I am currently phoning round tank stockists to see how much larger tanks cost, and largly thanks to this website I'm interested in starting a coldwater aquarium, going on to freshwater. 

Thanks to the guys (or gals) that have responded to me. I didn't understand how much care fish actually need, and looking back I'm totally ashamed at the way I treated fairground won goldfish  . 

Obviously I'm going to get all new equipment soon. I'm finding out as much as I can about cycling, I'll post a pic of the before and after tanks as soon as I can, however I have just one last question then I'll stop rambling! I've been told I don't need to bother with cycling if it's goldfish, just with tropical. Is this right? If so great, because I'd like to move them from the nasty little thing A.S.A.P!

Thanks for reading my essay. What a fantastic forum this is.

Sherida.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Don't feel bad, vast numbers of us started that way. I started a very long time ago with the same kind of carnival goldfish, aka feeder goldfish, that were a dollar a dozen. Throw them into a 10g tank, and after a week, almost all were dead. But they were only a buck a dozen, so back I'd go to get more. Every three months, put whatever fish were still alive in a bucket, completely empty the tank and sterilize it, put the fish back, repeat for about a year before I gave up. Now I know better. Live and learn. 

No, you should still cycle the tank no matter what kind of livestock it has in it. If you can, look for a product called Biospira. Must be kept in the store's fridge. Don't let them talk you into Stress Zyme, Cycle, or any other crap in a bottle. ONLY Biospira has the correct LIVE bacteria, the rest contain dead bacteria that do nothing but add to the already heavy bioload. If you can find Biospira, you can add the fish right away. Otherwise, you'll need to cycle by other means. 

Oh, and not sure if that was just a mis-statement but coldwater aquariums are freshwater aquariums.  There's just a differentiation between coldwater aquariums and tropical aquariums, where tropical employ warmer temperatures. 

BTW, welcome!

Oh, and a final general rule, very, very few store clerks have any idea how to properly take care of fish, so they rarely know what they are talking about. Relying on any advice they give is usually not a good idea. Researching and asking those with experience is your best bet.


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## Sherida (Jan 16, 2007)

Boxermom said:


> Oh, and not sure if that was just a mis-statement but coldwater aquariums are freshwater aquariums.  There's just a differentiation between coldwater aquariums and tropical aquariums, where tropical employ warmer temperatures.


Haha! The girl on the phone did make it sound like coldwater and freshwater were 2 different things! Wow....do I feel stupid!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Don't feel stupid, you can't be expected to know what you don't know. There are two big categories, freshwater and saltwater (brackish falls in between as having some marine salt but not fully saltwater). Freshwater has two general categories of coldwater and tropical.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Goldfish are coolwater fish. Not tropicals, not cold water. They can survive in 50 degree temps but as stated above, they go into a stasis like coma. They do need temps in the low 70's to properly metabolize food for nutrients. Keeping them in higher temps for long periods of time will shorten their lifespan.


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Hey, at least you started small and asked for advice. My first attempt at fish keeping (many MANY years ago) I filled up the tank, plugged in the filter, threw in the gravel, ran to WalMart and bought a mish-mash of tropical fish, came home and dumped them in the tank, fed them too much....then wondered why a few days later they were all dead. ROFL

Yep, as boxer mom said....live and learn.


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

Sherida, one way to help kick start your new "bigger" aquarium is to use the filter media from the old tank. DO NOT rinse it in tap water, use either old tank water, or clean water that is aprox the same temp and declorinated. Save any old gravel, and the same with that, use old tank water to rinse it. Gravel, old plants, decor of any kind is going to have Bio on it, it doesnt just grow in the filter. .... you see something slimey....... use it


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## Sable (Nov 6, 2006)

Bio-Spira can also be bought online.  Just make sure it's cool when it arrives.

I'm not sure if anyone said this, but yes, you're right, your friend was over-feeding the goldies. They should only be fed a pinch (or as much as they can eat in 2 minutes) once daily - some owners feed them only every other day.

Best of luck!!!


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## Sherida (Jan 16, 2007)

*Wow*

Thank you all so much for the excellent advice! You've saved me making some mistakes, like washing the decorations before I put them in a new tank. The only thing I won't be doing is using the old filter, it's really, really old and I've just seen it's held together with tape (my friend installed it for me so I haven't really seen how everything works)! I'm going to look at new tanks tomorrow and I can't wait to start. My husband is wondering quite what's come over me since I didn't even want fish to begin with, and now I'm trying to have a conversation with him about how much personal space a goldfish needs, whether a betta sometime in future would be good, and while I'm at it I wonder what Nan did with her old 6ft tank........ 

Thank you all again, hopefully the next time you hear from me will be with photos of my new hobby. It's so exciting to discover something like this!

Sherida.


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## Sable (Nov 6, 2006)

It really is a fantastic hobby!  Hope Nan still has a 6 footer... those would be too happy fishies. 

If the fish continue to skirt away from you, you may want to give them some extra hours of "night." They may be distressed by the condition of their water; in that case your small daily water changes (maybe 10% per day - take out 10% of the water [a little less than a gallon in this case] and add the same amount back into the tank - dechlorinated and not freezing cold or boiling hot, of course). When they're in their nice new clean, bigger tank, though, you'll want to make sure you hang out near it as much as possible so they get used to being scared at. Soon they'll be rushing to the glass for food and to show off whenever they see you!  

Keep us posted.


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## Sherida (Jan 16, 2007)

*Got my new tank!*

I went to my local fish store (is this what people mean when they say LFS?) and got a really nice deal on an Eheim tank, filter, heater, hood, light and thermometer all included. The lady working there keeps fish, and is genuinely interested in the wellbeing of the fish. She actually refused to sell me something that wouldn't thrive in my tank. The shop is also against dyeing and they really know their stuff. I bought some sand, a few live plants and it looks really good. The tank is cycling at the moment, and she's offered to do a free water check for me.

Thanks to those who suggested a small daily water change, the fish have so much more life now! They're so inquisitive. I can't wait to get them into their new tank. Just one more question for now, if I may. Stewie seems to be missing a few scales, and they've both got patches that are paler than the rest of them. Is this normal?

Thanks for reading!
Sherida.


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## railinsp (Jun 14, 2006)

Sherida
I had gold fish for4 years and they are great but in my 46 gal tank all I kept was five GF fancy tail have a ten gal rule and comets have a 20 gal . They are messy fish and I vac and water change once a week. I have now changed over to trops less messy and have more in my tank. gave my 5 gf fish to a friend back in may he has them in a pond doing good


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Hmm... I would have to disagree with that. Twenty gallons is the minimum normally recommended for fancy goldfish, whereas comets get to be a foot long and really aren't suitable for anything but very large tanks or preferably ponds.


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## railinsp (Jun 14, 2006)

I really don't want to disagee with any body but yes koi are a big gf and take a pond but comets i still respectfuly disagree about cometsa 20 gal rule is valid and fancy gf 10 gal rule. check this site out for more info.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Even that site says they get 12-14" long. http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/ftypes.html A 20 gallon tank measures 24x12x16. How can that possibly be large enough? Its barely even wide enough for it to turn around, much less being able to swim much. And that doesn't even take into account their relatively huge bioload. Common sense says a 20g is nowhere near big enough for a foot long fish.


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## railinsp (Jun 14, 2006)

I know that kio get big and belong in ponds but I respectfully diagree about fancy gf and comets. the fancy gf require 10 per fish and the comets 20 gals.
That was the main reason I got out of gold fish. but they are great and do have personalitys. If you don't mind how about checking this site out for more info.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Did you even check the link I posted? Its on the same website you keep linking to, and it says: "_...will grow on an average of 12-14" long._" Or how about this one, still on the same website you keep touting: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Comet.html "_The comet has a long (up to 12 inch in length) slim body and a high dorsal fin._"


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## railinsp (Jun 14, 2006)

Goldfish don't live very long in a Bowl.
1. Not enough air surface in a bowl.
2. No filtration in a bowl.
3. They grow very fast and goldfish need at least 10 gals of water per fish.(goldfish grow to 6")!
4. Goldfish also need light.


Tank
1. You need a good filter.
2. You to have at least 10 to 20 gals of water per fish you plan on keeping. PS you can go to
Big Als Online for the Eclipse systems which I highly recommend. Check them out!
3. You need to have a big surface area for gas exchange.
4. You need to have a tank with a light. (on for at least 8 hours a day)
5. Make sure that the rocks are either big enough that the goldfish cant pick up or small enough that they cant get them stuck in there throat.


A comment on the size of the tank for Goldfish, I have a lot of people tell me that the goldfish can live in 5 gals for one goldfish. I personally dont think so. Goldfish are very dirty fish. Goldfish dont have a stomach and so they cant digest food like you or I it takes about 5 mins for there food to come out the other end. So when you think of this the waste is right there. So unless you plan on changing the water 10% of it every day. I suggest that you have a 10 gal tank for one goldfish. Fancy Goldfish also get big, they can grow to 6" so even if you buy a baby goldfish and put him/her in a 5 gal tank they will out grow it and not live the life they should. Goldfish also can live 10-20 years old. So I don't mean to sound mad but if you went to the pound and bought a kitten and expect the kitten to stay a kitten, then that's the same thing you are doing to a goldfish when you expect them to live in a bowl or a small tank or a tank with out a filter. Goldfish Get Big!


This is off koko's web site I realize big is bettet I wasn't trying to argue over this but opinons every one has one but what is important me seen to many goldfish bowls for gold fish but people not going to buy tanks 100 gals to put 2 or three fish in. I had a xp3 cannistor and ac 300 on a 46 gal tank for my gold fish. What I was saying for the one posting glad she got gold fish but beware they need space. I don't like to fuss so and I like this site i'll back off and not post


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

railinsp said:


> ... but people not going to buy tanks 100 gals to put 2 or three fish in.


I disagree. Often when people are taught the appropriate way to house their fish, they will get the appropriate house. I have just purchased a 125g tank for ONE fish, and I'm in no way alone in that. There are many people who have large tanks with single fish in them, if they like that type of fish and are willing to provide the right environment for them. 

All I'm saying is to give people the correct information. If a comet gets to be 12+ inches long (which even Koko's site says they do), how can it possibly live well in a tank that's 24x12? It will barely be able to move. That's just common sense. Its not merely the amount of water in the tank, but the physical space - the dimensions of a 20g tank show that its not a sufficient home.


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## Sable (Nov 6, 2006)

Railinsp, that Website is wrong on several counts (in addition to its absolutely atrocious grammar). I wouldn't trust it. The site says,

"Goldfish dont have a stomach and so they cant digest food like you or I it takes about 5 mins for there food to come out the other end."
Wrong. These fish do seem to always be pooping, but I encourage you to test this theory for yourself: Feed your goldfish a different color food than you usually feed them and see how long it takes for that coloration to show up in their stools. It's usually a couple of hours.

It also says,

"Fancy Goldfish also get big, they can grow to 6""
Wrong. Some species of fancy goldfish can reach lengths of 10" if proper care is given.

It continues,

"Goldfish also can live 10-20 years old."
Um, they'll probably only live 10-20 years if you follow this girl's advice... but if you give them the proper care, they can live 40 years - and it's not that uncommon! My ex-boyfriend barely knew a thing about caring for his goldfish, but it's already in its upper thirties (it's been handed down through the family).


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## lochness (Jan 10, 2006)

All good info - I just need to add that rail gives alot of good info but contradicts him/herself - advises about alot of space for fish (which is indeed correct) and then argues abut the incorrect size of a full grown comet and the incorrect space required for it - I realize you can really depend on one resource for your info, and that's fine, but if you find differing info about a species or method, double check elsewhere to confirm its validity. 

Sable and Puffer are correct.

Sherida, welcome to Fishforums and congrats on your new pets and found hobby 

and yes LFS stands for local fish store - and I'm glad you found a very good one! What is the name of it if you don't mind my asking?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

My Greatuncle Elmer is the one who got me interested in fishkeeping, way back in 1970, although I didn't start until two years after that, which was 35 years ago. 
He gave me some guppies and goldfish, and a few books which I still cherish today. To be more precise, he wouldn't give me the fish until after I had read the books and passed a little quiz he gave me, and then he gave me a lot of hands-on help for about 3 years.
Well, I had about as much luck as you'd probably expect. I did okay, but not great. It would take a few more years before I really got the hang of it.
In 1977, Elmer died. He left me a bunch of his fish, and I really had a hard time getting them on account of his fish club buddies going to so much trouble to snap up all they could. ( As it turned out, these fish were special.. well, I'll save that for the end. ) At any rate, I inherited the fish and took them home. Some of the goldfish I got were already over 20 years old, and most of them saw 30. Two of them lived until shortly after Seinfeld got cancelled, which was around, what, 1999? ~40 year-old fish!
They were huge, by the way, and VERY pretty. Six inches? HA! Their TAILS were that long.
At the zoo we had goldfish living in the monkey island moat. They too were of most impressive size. Most were fantails, and easily over a foot long.
Orandas and pearlscales and ryukins might not grow as large as comets, but 10 inches is fairly common, no problem.

( as for those guppies, they came from Philadelphia. Dr William T. Innes was in the habit of giving guppies out of his own garden pond to visitors, and people often brought him some new breeders for his litttle colony. Guys like Frank Alger, William Sternke, and oh yes, Paul Hahnel himself all contributed to Innes' little pool, and the the fish resulting from this were a big mishmash, but as fancy as guppies got back in the fifties. Elmer took him some fish while on a business trip to the area, and got some of Innes' own stock in return. These he kept going for years, and he worked hard to develop many strains from them, although none of them were especially noteworthy.

I have kept this line going myself for the past 30 years. They still aren't really much to look at, since I've never done much with them, preferring to keep them to themselves. I of course cull and such to keep them from degrading into wild-type runts, and on occasion I'd get some different colors pop up, but for the most part they are the typical mottled orange that was once considered super-fancy once upon a time.
Almost all of the exerimental breeding I've ever done with guppies has been with other fish got elsewhere. The "Innes line" fish I leave alone. They're not really anything special, and if you didn't know the story behind them you'd just think they were junk, but I like them for sentimental reasons. ) Wow. 30 years. That's a long time.

Hmmm... I seem to have forgotten my whole point for this post. I think it had something to do with people bickering too much, and how the gift of a few goldfish can change your whole life if you're not careful.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

really ---did you have to mention the Innes line?
I got curious about it and spent all sorts of extra time looking it up abd reading articles about and by folks who have been fishkeeping for more that 50 years.That led to sites about native fish etc. 
Someone has to go get the lunch and I suppose that would be me:lol: Some-what late!;-)
Some of those little guppies with variable spots can be quite cute for a change after having tankfuls of consistent colors. I recently bred a fancy male to a common gold and the males are tiny and old spotted type. The same male was bred to a fancy female and the males are going to be bigger but with all yellow and black tails. Interesting that the old types genes are dominant over the fancy.


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## Sherida (Jan 16, 2007)

*Thanks for all the responses*

There's a lot of info to absorb! I appreciate everyones opinion and if the fish get that big I will find someone with a nice pond for them. And to Lochness, the name of my LFS is Aqualife. I've heard some not so good reviews about them, but I can't fault the girls I spoke to. The fish all look very healthy (to my inexpert eye anyway) and the range of fish is incredible!

The water checked out OK and the fish are in the new tank now  . They seem to really be loving the space, and come to the top to feed whilst I'm still there which they weren't doing before. LOL I can't believe how much they poop! 

Sherida.


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