# Malawi Tank



## biskit (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi

We are currently setting up a Malawi community tank. Tank Size is 200L. 

The tank has been Cycled (fishless - with ammonia) and after the cycle was complete, water parameters were:
Ammonia = 0 (Ideal)
Nitrate = 20ppm (Safe)
Nitrite = 0 (Ideal)
Total Hardness = Very hard
Total Alkalinity = High (Ideal)
pH = 8.4

Well we were going to buy all the fish for the tank on Friday, but we bought 2 fish yesterday just to see how they did. I bought 2 Pseudotropheus Saulosi (male and female) 

After we got them home after a 20 min trip. I floated their bags in the tank and after 15 min slowly added a bit of the tank water to the bags. I released them a little bit later. Last night we noticed the male was breathing very rapidly but the female was still fine - swimming around and exploring. Well this morning we found the male dead  while the female still looks fine. 

I did another water test:
Ammonia = 0.25
Nitrate = 20ppm (Safe)
Nitrite = 0.5 (Caution)
Total Hardness = Very hard
Total Alkalinity = High (Ideal)
pH = 8.4

Because the ammonia and nitrites went up I did a 30% water change. 

The male and the female were bought from the same tank at the lfs, but the guy working at the lfs did have a very hard time catching the male. 

Could it be that the male just couldn't handle the stress? I really don't know why he died and the female is fine. 

Any help would be appreciated!


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

lol thats pretty mad because I too have just had a malawi tank setup. However I didnt do a fishless cycle - I set up the tank on the day of its arrival, then I introduced 2 tetras on day 2 for test reasons (I know its shallow but hey, no harm done it seems!)...and then the next day I added an adult johanni and pleco from my other tank to try boost ammonia levels and kickstart the cycle. I left it from then (friday) to wednesday (yesterday) for the cycle to get going, constantly checking ammonia and nitrite levels as well as the pH. Ammonia read 0, Nitrite 0 and pH was 8.0. I bought 4 assorted malawis and all are fine so far!

I dont feel that fishless cycles are entirely realistic ways to establish new tanks. Before you put the fish in you have absolutely no idea how new fish are going to cope. Adding a few hardy tetras or danios is a cheap and good indication on whether the water conditions are at all safe to live in.

You could be totally right in saying he was stressed from capture and being put in a new environment. That was exactly what happened to my cobalt blue yesterday - they literally took about 8 minutes to catch the thing but hes still fine like the others in his new home 

One thing that you might want to check is the pH of the lfs water. Their's may be something like 7.8/7.9 in which case the pH difference is 0.6/0.5 from your 8.4 setup. To my knowledge a pH change of 0.5+ can cause yet more stress on a fish. The mixing of the two waters isnt necessarily a counter to their differing pH's, it mainly solves the water temperature difference. Its best aiming for a pH of about 8.0 when going for malawis since this is mid range and will suit fish from both ends of the 7.4-8.6 range.

Be very careful with how you add more fish. Before you decide to get any more make sure the conditions are right again. I would suggest adding a 2-3 more next, try and get the hardiest malawis your lfs has. Be sure to turn off the light (if you dont already) whilst adding them to your tank from the bag as that too reduces stress.

Can I ask what the tank setup is like? Coral sand and lots of rockwork?


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## biskit (Nov 17, 2005)

Thanx Fraser :-D 

The only thing that has us totally "flabergasted" is that the female is fine. If it was the pH shock that killed the male - why did the female survive? As I said -she looks fine, swimming and exploring - no heavy breathing (Oh - and they did come from the exact same tank at the lfs)



P.S. I just had a look at the pic of your tank - ours looks the same - except it's silver


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Was she significantly easier to catch?

hehe, nice - my fish are already hiding in the rocks...my adult johanni hasnt bothered them once, he just hides in the main cavern so to speak :razz:

btw im on chat


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## biskit (Nov 17, 2005)

Yes - he caught her easily. He chased the male around for quite a while though :neutral: 

I just went into chat for the first time - it looks quite nice.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Did you feed them when you put them in your tank? I know they say not to feed new fish on the first day but with malawis they'll eat anything. It could have been a case of stress + hunger with the male because in shops they dont feed sparingly...theyre usually stingy with the food for obvious reasons...


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## semocichlid (Dec 9, 2005)

*malawi tank*

Im not sure about an emty tank cycle (no fish), but I have been breeding cichlids since the early 90s and the only way I set up a new tank is to take water out of my 135gal (since I do water changes every week) and fill the new tank 50% with it and the rest is with Start Right. I then let the tank run for about 2 hour and start puttung fish in it. I've never had any problem with this method of starting a new tank. I am not saying what you did was wrong, it might be the fish that was the problem. Who knows?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Fraser said:


> I dont feel that fishless cycles are entirely realistic ways to establish new tanks.


Fraser, a lot of people that are a lot smarter than you or I say that "fishless cycling' is a VERY realistic way to establish a new tank. I think it is the best way. Fish are stressed when exposed to ammonia/ nitrite. Fishless cycling completely avoids that.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2005)

^^true. what do you find unrealistic about a fishless cycle? you dont need fish to become unhealthy to tell you that your water is bad. you just need some test kits.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

My fish didnt become unhealthy as I treated the water and ensured it was at the right conditions before I added any. Furthermore I only added 2 tetras to the 190 litre tank (55gallons). There is nothing that could possibly stress the fish out with ammonia/nitrite readings both at 0, temp at 24C, pH equal to their original tank, good oxygen supply etc.

Fishless cycle is like sending people off to space without doing so beforehand - would you like to be the first person in space without a few others testing it before you lol? The tetras I specifically used are VERY hardy little fish and show no signs of stress whatsoever when I do water changes either. I find it pretty stupid doing a fishless cycle then adding 4-6 fish that cost £6.50 ($9) each to the water before any other fish have tested it before hand. I wouldnt even want to put 1-2 fish in coz that would still be up to £13 wasted!


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Fraser, I didn't say your way is wrong. You did cycle your tank. You cycled using fish, which is the way everybody did it up until a couple of years ago. Fish produce ammonia which is the fuel needed to "cycle" an aquarium. The idea of adding pure ammonia instead of exposing fish to poisonous ammonia and nitrite is a recent developement in our hobby but VERY well based in scientific theory, and it does work. Your comparison to sending people off into space suggests you don't understand "fishless cycling". Someone coming to this forum looking for help, needs to be given the best advise we can give. I don't think your personal bias against a scientifically proven method was the best approach.


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## DUSTIN323 (Sep 21, 2005)

Yeah fishless is the way to go. It just makes more sense IMO to add ammonia instead of fish to produce ammonia.


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## GACichlidProj (Dec 16, 2005)

Sounds like your fish may have been shocked by the change from the dealer's tank to yours. Was there a pH change or temp change between the two aquariums?

I usually cycle my new tanks by moving water, gravel, rocks covered with algae, etc. from an existing tank to the new tank to quickly establish the new nitrogen cycle.

I also add most species to the tanks in dozens, since I want to breed them without producing siblings.

If you would like a document that explains my methods of keeping and propagating Rift Lake Cichlids, which I have done for 27 years, please send a request to [email protected]. You must have Microsoft Word in your computer to recieve this document. If you would like my price list, you must have Microsoft Excel.

Michael A. Risko, Jr.
Georgia Cichlid Project
358 Patterson Road
Lawrenceville, GA 30044
770-962-8400
[email protected]


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