# Stocking my (first) 30g SW aquarium



## BettaFriend

Ok, it isn't mine yet (the tank), but I have made arrangements to pick up the tank. The people seem like legitamite people. I will get the tank tomorrow. I need stocking help, though.

My main question, can I get a Yellow Watchman Goby in a tank with 50/50 LS and regular sand with some crushed coral thrown in? I think it might not be coarse enough for the poor Watchman to live and dig a home. Opinions on the Goby issue?

Next. The tank is going to be 30g. Will it be Ok for YWG, Firefish Goby, and a Black Clown Goby (all species kept single)? I don't know for sure if that is the setup I want (meaning idk if I will get all these fish), but I just want to know upfront if it will work.

Here is a list of the fish I will consider. Not all these fish are well researched, so if you see a problem, please point it out. Thanks!

Fish;

Yellow Watchman Goby (p#1)
Royal Gramma(p#1)
Firefish Goby (p#2)
Clownfish (p#2)
Black Clown Goby (p#3)
Some type of cardinal (p#4)

Inverts (creepy crawlies);
Tiger Pistol Shrimp (p#1)
Brittle Starfish (p#1)
Tuxedo Urchin (p#3)
Unknown Star (they come with the tank, no pic yet) (p#4)
Turbo Snails (they come with the tank) (p#4)

Keep in mind that fish and inverts have priority system. If 2 creatures can't live together, the one with higher priority stays on the list, unless it is causeing multiple conflicts, or I just decide to take it off the list.

I will try to run this on AqAdvisor and see what I come up with.

Please give me some tips on good SW snails, crabs, etc., just make sure that is they can be harmful to fish or inverts, you mention it in your post.

btw, what is a sea cucumber?

Feel free to suggest fish (or lack there of), or inverts (or lack there of).

Thanks!


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## cossie

sorry an t help with the question but it seems more people on this forums are getting into saltwater.

wahhhhheeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyy

;-)


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## TheOldSalt

You can't safely get all that stuff into one 29 gallon tank, but most of it will fit.

A Sea Cucumber is an echinoderm, like a starfish. It, like stars and urchins, has a 5-way radial symmetry, although you don't see it very well since it's squishy. The name comes from the appearance; it looks like a warty cuke with tentacles on one end. It eats by gulping in sand on one end and spewing it out again, picking out anything edible as it passes through. They are great sand-stirrers as a result, but will starve if not given enough food. Some are extremely poisonous, while some are actually edible.


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## funlad3

And if they die, they have a lovely habit of pureeing out their innards, which literally poison the tank.

And yes Cossie. Sadly, only nano tanks are being stated up. I'm the only one with a larger tank!


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## BettaFriend

I know that all the fish wont fit at once, they are just all on my consideration list. Sorry funlad3, I looked for a bigger tank, but they were never in the price range.

I guess I will pick up the tank later today.


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## TheOldSalt

I'm working on 2 or 3 myself. One very small, one a 20L, and one a 40B. I'm also picking up a 65 next week just because it's super-cheap, but I don't know what I'll do with it.

I'm turning the 40B into an all-in-one tank/fuge combo by adding a partition all the way lengthwise. Just a goofy thing I wanted to try.


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## funlad3

Like what they have in bio-cubes! That's a cool idea!


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## BettaFriend

Look...








(stock is at 85% according to AqAdvisor)

hehe....An expert from here said that these fish will do fine together even in a small tank. I guess he is probably smarter than AqAdvisor. Opinions?

_(edit: It says 'green clown goby', but I only put that because they didn't have black. They are the same thing, right?)_


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## platies pwn

"Sadly, only nano tanks are being stated up. I'm the only one with a larger tank!"
posted by funlad3

not really.im starting to set up my 55 gallon saltwater


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## cossie

bigger doesnt always mean better.

eg: this case were talking about now lol


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## BettaFriend

As many of you know, I setup the tank yesterday night through early this morning. It came with 2 damsels. I wasn't going to get attached, but....

...I can't stop staring at them. They are SO CUTE! I don't think I can get rid of them. One is a Blue Devil I think, and the other is a humbug.

The new damsels, I guess, are now priority 1. I am going to have to completely change my stocking up! Totally!

First of all, I don't think the tank will support a YWG. The sand is very shallow, and the damsels might pick on him. Can't have that happen. I need to know a list of sturdy tank mates that are willing to put up with some damselfish aggression. I don't mind if I can only add afew more.

I also need to know alot of inverts that would work...

Are Tuxedo Urchins suitable for the tank? I have read they are great for beginners, and they don't harm fish. 

What about Emerald Crab? Everyone on the forum has one. 

How about Brittle Starfish? They are very hardy, and forgiveing.

Are turbo snails good for a new-ish tank? (I hear they are at alot of lswfs)

Anyway, now that I have the tank, when would be a better time to plan a stocking list (if you can think of something...don't say it!)? Any suggestions, tips, or comments would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

(here is a shorter version of my last post...)

Anything live with damselfish (including fish, inverts, and other damsels)??


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## kay-bee

Tuxedo's are reef safe but, like many sea urchins, can knock over and topple corals that aren't firmly affixed. They also require algae to survive (to include coralline algae). They may actually prefer the coralline over the nuisance algae. 

Brittle sea stars make great scavengers and are hardy. The green ones are capable of converting to 'carnivore' mode and can take small live fish. Serpent sea stars are great scavengers and hardy as well.

Emerald crabs are fine, but may become non-reef safe when they get large, but if you're not getting corals they should be fine for the long term.

Turbo's are good algae-eating snails. One of the best in my opinion. They're probably best in a matured or tank that isn't still new, though.

Damsels can be very aggressive and territorial, and even more so versus new additions, (I think it's better if damsels are added to the tank last). Since they're already in the tank a fish with a semi-aggressive or aggressive temperments can be suggested. Sometimes adding Maybe a gramma or pseudochromis (I'm not really good at fish recommendations). Other damsels may or may not be tolerated.

I had luck with a tailspot blenny. The damsels were rough with it for the first several days though (until it started defending itself and then the eventually left it alone).


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## TheOldSalt

Urchins are hydraulic wonders of nature, capable of chewing through anything and toppling boulders. Quite a few reef tanks have had landslides in them from urchins pushing over rocks.
And yes, I am smarter than AqAdvisor, for the record. Firefish aggressively fighting with anything? HA! The Watchman might nip at it if it gets too close, but that's it. Watchmen stay near their burrows as much as they can, and Firefish stay suspended in the middle of the tank.
Green & Black clown gobies are very cute, but they're hard to feed. They're very meek and dainty feeders which are easily bullied away from any food, and while many of them will eat the kinds of things you'd want to feed them, a lot of them just never seem to figure it out. The odds are that they'll be fine, but you should know that unless you can squirt food directly at them, they might go hungry until they can figure out how to get a meal. You should definitely ask the petshop guy to feed them while you watch, so that you can see if they'll eat. Actually, that goes for most saltwater fish.


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## BettaFriend

BettaFriend said:


> Look...
> View attachment 5993
> 
> hehe....An expert from here said that these fish will do fine together even in a small tank. I guess he is probably smarter than AqAdvisor. Opinions?[/I]





TheOldSalt said:


> And yes, I am smarter than AqAdvisor, for the record.


You weren't the person who originally said it, TOS. lol


I think I will take the damsels to my lfs in a month or 2. I am going to miss my first SW fish, but I really want to see my stocking list come to life, not someone else's.

I don't think a YWG will work because I only have 1/2" of live sand. They need to burrow, right?

I may just skip the black clown. They don't seem all that intelligent, and I certainly don't want to lose a fish to starvation, even if the chances are small.

Clowns are still ok, right? The minimum tank size for them is 20g, right? So maybe I can get a pair of Ocell* (*idk how to spell that) clownfish. Personally, I think they aren't the greatest fish in the world, but because of that movie "Finding Nemo" everyone knows what a clown is. It would be more impressive to my friends. Plus, I love watching them boldly swim around in the tank.

Firefish I guess will work, so I am not going to make a comment on that...

Could I get some cardinals? I really like Pajama Cardinals. I can't really plug it into AqAdvisor because they are missing alot of the 'less common' saltwater fish (such as Humbug Damsel/three stipe D/Humbud, Pajama Cardinal, Black Clown Goby). Is there anything comlicated about cardinals? I have heard they should be kept in groups of 3, and in other places I have heard they can be kept in any odd number arrangement including by iteslf. Any tips or suggestions?

Royal Gramma...These are fine, right? I have heard from some sources that they are "highly aggressive, territorial fish that aren't suitable for a peaceful tank". Then on forums I've read "they may act big sometimes, but if they are approached, they are just big chickens. They are a great fish for a peaceful community tank". So since I have heard Quote #2 100 times more than quote #1, I think RG are nice, right?

...I think that is all the fish in my original stocking plan. I might have missed one. If I missed one listed in the priority list, feel free to comment on it, because I will probably go back to the priority list.

Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

I got an idea! Yellow Watchman need a tank with somewhat deep, coarse....substrate. Maybe I can add substrate to 1 side of my tank, and make it deep enough for a YWG to live happily. Could I add a coarse sand in the tank without causing problems? I have heard of some people putting substrate in nylons, letting it sit in the tank for awhile, then adding it carefully to the tank.

I am wondering, can I get a brittle (not a carnivorious one) starfish now? Like, not now, but the next time I go to a SW store? The tank is new to me, but it has been setup for over 3 years.

Also, I might turn my 29g into a reef tank. I hope I can get by with a $47 light bulb for a fixture TOS says will support coral, and not alot of other expenses? That will probably be afew months down the road, though.

I think my red shrimp has dull red stripes that almost match his maroon, with circles on his tank. Does that sound familier?

Ok, all for now.

Thanks!

_(edit: btw, here is one of the stickies on this forum says about Pajama Cardinal fish (I would like to add them to my stocking list)Pajama Cardinalfish - easy to take care of, and fairly hardy, best if kept singly in small aquariums, but more than one can be kept in larger aquariums. Need min 20 gallons, can grow to about 3 inches, are a carnivore that will eat flake foods pellet foods live shrimp frozen shrimp and other meaty foods. Needs peaceful tank mates. Will not eat inverts/corals/small fish.

)_


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## BettaFriend

Here is a whole list of invertebrates that Foster & Smith says are great for beginners. Just wanted to know a little bit more about these guys. Thanks.

Astraea Turbo Snail
Banded Coral Shrimp
Cerith snail
Dwarf Blue-leg Hermit Crab
Dwarf Red-tip Hermit Crab
Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab
Sea Cucumber* (yeah, that is specific)
*Holothuria floridana (that is the scientific name they gave)
Serpent Seastar
Spiny Star Astraea
Porcelain Crab
Peppermint Shrimp


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## BettaFriend

*guys.....?*

Nobody has replied to this thread in over 2 days.

I would like to know if Pajama Cardinal fish have any special care needs (as I am seriously considering adding them to my stock list). 

I would also like to know a little bit more about the inverts in the post above (^), even if you only know about 1 of the inverts. Basically what they eat, how easy it is to care for them, and what damage they can/will cause is, I think everything I need to know.

I am thinking about a setup similar to something like this;
1 Yellow Watchman Goby
1 Royal Gramma
2 (some kind of) clownfish
1 Pajama Cardinal

Large inverts:
1 Serpent Seastar
1 Shrimp (that I already have)
(something else, suggestions?)

[please note that the tank needs to be inhabited by reef-safe creatures]

So I guess that is 5 fish unless I am forgetting something.


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## kay-bee

Astrea snails are algae-eating snails common in the hobby. If they manage to lose their grip and fall it's very difficult for them to 'right' themselves. This inability to 'right' themselves makes them extremely vulnerable to hermit crabs (which can finish them off and take their shells if they so desire). From what I've seen they're good at tackling green or green-brown algae on the glass.

Spiny Star Astreaa. Pretty much the same as the astrea above, just different shell shape.

Astrea Turbo Snail. I've heard of Turbo snails or mexican turbo snails. Maybe some LFS's call Astreas "Astrea Turbo Snails. The actual turbo snails are larger and have differently shaped shells and in my opinion are much more affective algae eaters than the astreas and can right themselves. 

Cerith snail. Small algae eating snail with the ability to right itself.

Hermit crabs are scavengers always on the search of food. They will consume any uneaten food in the tank, as well as anything that dies in the tank. They'll also eat some nuisance algae and detritus.They can be competitive with each other (will try to steal another's shell) and when larger, can develop cannibalistic tendencies. The availabiity of empty shells which they can use can minimize this activity a bit.

Sea Cucumbers (and Holothuria sp. are also sea cucumbers): Consume detritus and the like. Some may have specialized feeding habits and may filter feed. Probably best for matured tanks. 

Coral banded Shrimp. Opportunistic omnivore. Primarily a scavanger but there are accounts of some of them not being reef-friendly and even predatory. Larger than most shrimps in the hobby.

Serpent Seastar. Hardy scavenger and detritivore. Will actively consume uneaten food. Mostly nocturnal.

Porcelain Crab. Active filter feeder and requires particulate matter. Can eat larger food particles though. Some have a symbiotic relationship with anemones.

Peppermint Shrimp. Opportunistic omnivore. A "true" peppermint shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni) may predate upon pest anemonies (such as aiptasia) and possibly certain soft coral polyps. Many hobbyists 'employ' peppermints to rid the tank of aiptasia. Unfortunately there are several other shrimp in the hobby which are superficially very similar to L. wurdemanni and are not effective aiptasia predators, such as camel or camelback shrimp.


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## funlad3

PJ cardinals are basically just shy and need to have a place to hide. Once they're settled, they'll usually hover in one place. They look awesome when they get larger. A taco place next to the Sea Schor has one with a clown and a powder brown tang in a 28 gallon. (AHHHH!!!!! POOR TANG!!!!! IT MAY BE SMALL< BUT IT HAS A WIDE ROAMING SPACE!!!!!!)


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## BettaFriend

Wow, thanks kay-bee for the info on the inverts!

I think the PJ cardinals is now a firm fish on my stocking list.

I might order online to get the hydrometer I really need as the nearest Petco from here is over an hours drive. Anyway, I am looking at this arogonite sand on Petsmart. It is 1mm-2mm grain, and I was wondering if this would work for a Yellow Watchman Goby (they dig homes under the substrate) if I buried part of the tank. Anyone know how deep I need to make it for this burrowing fish? Also, what marine invertebrates can I get to help combat against anaerobic bacteria? Don't want any of that mess in my tank.

Questions;
Anyone think this will work? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753226

Anyone know how deep the sand will need to be?

Anyone know which CUC will keep anaerobic bacteria away?

Thanks!


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## funlad3

"We're Sorry
This page is either unavailable or does not exist
May we suggest returning to the home page, calling (888)839-9638 to speak to a customer service representative (we're here 24 hours a day/7 days a week) or email customer service at [email protected]"

Whoops...


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## kay-bee

BettaFriend said:


> I might order online to get the hydrometer...


For greater accuracy and the ability to calibrate, you may want to invest in a refractometer. 

They cost more than hydrometers (usually $40-$45 as opposed to under $10 for a typical hydrometer) but are great *long term* investments. Plus, gettting a refractomer at the beginning in the long run is less expensive than getting a hydrometer, later discovering the inaccuracies, and then getting a refractometer.



BettaFriend said:


> what marine invertebrates can I get to help combat against anaerobic bacteria? Don't want any of that mess in my tank.


If your goal is a complete nitrification cycle, then you *WANT* anaerobic bacteria in your tank. With nearly all freshwater aquariums, the nitrification cycle is incomplete: Ammonia is converted to Nitrite. Nitrite is converted to Nitrate. Water changes (and plants) remove nitrates.

In saltwater set ups, with ample porous live rock and a deep sand bed (DSB) anaerobic bacteria enables a complete nitrification cycle: Ammonia is converted to Nitrite. Nitrite is converted to Nitrate. Nitrate is converted to harmless Nitrogen gas. Ideally the end result is a fully cycled tank with consistent undetectable nitrate levels (greater bioloads may result in low nitrate levels).

Live sand typically is inhabited by a myriad of hitch-hikiing burrowing organisms (various worms, microcrusteans, etc). Additionally there are burrowing livestock that a hobbyist can acquire (such as nassarius snails, certain fish, seastars, etc). The presence and processes of these organisms typically prevent the anaerobic bacteria from producing harmful toxins (such as hydrogen sulfide). In freshwater tanks, these burrowing organisms do not exist (in the hobby...well maybe malaysian trumpet snails...) so an anaerobic environment isn't good because it's likely to go toxic. 



BettaFriend said:


> Anyone know how deep the sand will need to be?


A DSB usually needs to be a minimum of 3"-4" deep for oxygen-free zones to exist to make nitrate conversion possible (typically utilizing ' sugar-grain' sand (grains between 0.1-1mm). If your goal is to prevent anaerobic bacteria in the sand from forming then go for less than 3" deep (which will mean it's not a DSB), and usually larger grained sand.

Some hobbyists, however, view DSB's and potential 'nutrient sinks' and go with very shallow (or even some cases bare-bottom) tanks. Partial nitrate-to-nitrogen in these set ups are performed by the live rock, with the remaining nitrate is removed via water changes (or refugiums if those are in place).

I was able to find the product that you were trying to hyperlink only by searching for *2753226* on petsmarts search engine (for some reason it's not possible to hyperlink the URL for that product.

CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand will work. Aragonite sand needs to be thoroughly washed. If you add it directly to the tank and add water it will look like a aquarium filled with milk.


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## BettaFriend

kay-bee said:


> For greater accuracy and the ability to calibrate, you may want to invest in a refractometer. They cost more than hydrometers (usually $40-$45 as opposed to under $10 for a typical hydrometer) but are great *long term* investments.
> 
> If your goal is a complete nitrification cycle, then you *WANT* anaerobic bacteria in your tank. With nearly all freshwater aquariums, the nitrification cycle is incomplete: Ammonia is converted to Nitrite. Nitrite is converted to Nitrate. Water changes (and plants) remove nitrates.
> 
> In saltwater set ups, with ample porous live rock and a deep sand bed (DSB) anaerobic bacteria enables a complete nitrification cycle: Ammonia is converted to Nitrite. Nitrite is converted to Nitrate. Nitrate is converted to harmless Nitrogen gas. Ideally the end result is a fully cycled tank with consistent undetectable nitrate levels (greater bioloads may result in low nitrate levels).
> 
> A DSB usually needs to be a minimum of 3"-4" deep for oxygen-free zones to exist to make nitrate conversion possible (typically utilizing ' sugar-grain' sand (grains between 0.1-1mm). If your goal is to prevent anaerobic bacteria in the sand from forming then go for less than 3" deep (which will mean it's not a DSB), and usually larger grained sand.
> 
> CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand will work. Aragonite sand needs to be thoroughly washed.


Well, it is a good idea, and I should ivest in a refractometer, but I simply cannot afford something of that cost at this time. Perhaps later I can, but right now there is alot of other things I need to get that are very important other than a refractometer. Very good suggestion, but I am simply too poor.

I WANT anaerobic bacteria?? Man, I knew saltwater had some crazy twist on freshwater, but man! Ok, I can live with that, as long as my fish can live with that. Are there any complications, risk, dangers, etc of having anaerobic bacteria in MY aquarium? You said the organisms in LS would break it down, but will the CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand stuff work? I could get 80lbs max, but I don't know how much that would cover.

I think if I made it much thicker than 4" I would have to get a yellowhead jawfish lol! The sand would be 1-2mm in grain size (as that is probably the best for the burrowing Yellow Watchman Goby). My question is, is that is it Ok to only have this stuff (DSB) on 1 side of the tank? Would that cause any imballances? I want the enviroment to be as stable as possible.

You said seastars are good for DSB? How many? What kind? Could I use them as the main sorce of...(idk what goes here)...for the DSB? I love serpent seastars (they get pretty big) and I also like other seastars, just suggest them by name.

I think that is all I can go into right at this moment. Thanks for all your help kay-bee!


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## funlad3

The anaerobic bacteria is fie as long as you don't disturb the deepest section of the sand bed. You still vacuum the sand there, but not all the way down. If you don't want the bacteria, keep the entire sand bed clean and vacuum often. They wont have a chance to establish themselves.


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## BettaFriend

Hey guys. I am going to a SW store for the first time. I am probably going to get a bunch of invertebrates. I hope they will work, but I don't have time to ask as I am leaving in just afew minutes.

I might come back with Turbo Snails, (1) Serpent Seastart, (1) Blue Leg Hermit Crab.

Comment as soon as you read because there is a slight chance that I might read it before I leave. Even if it is Ok, I'd love to have the peace of mind. If it isn't Ok, just go ahead and post all the problems and I can read them first thing when I get back. I think my tank is mature enough, as it has been running for over 3 years. It isn't going to cycle because it already has.

Please respond! Thanks guys!


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## cossie

we just starting adding stuff to our and first thing we added was emerald crabs and turbo snails which are amazing at getting rid of diatoms


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## kay-bee

BettaFriend said:


> My question is, is that is it Ok to only have this stuff (DSB) on 1 side of the tank? Would that cause any imballances? I want the enviroment to be as stable as possible.


I would think that over time, possibly as a result of water flow and other variables, the level of the sand on each end may equalize eventually. But as mentioned a DSB isn't required at all. There are many reef keepers who don't even use sand. I guess you could try it.



BettaFriend said:


> You said seastars are good for DSB? How many? What kind? Could I use them as the main sorce of...(idk what goes here)...for the DSB? I love serpent seastars (they get pretty big) and I also like other seastars, just suggest them by name.


Micro-brittle stars work well. These are near-exclusively hitch hiker detritivores that dwell within the upper 1cm of the sand bed. For deeper or more thorough sanding sifting, a sand sifting starfish may work for a time. There's a lot of consensus, however that sand sifter stars may require large tanks and will also deplete the sand bed of beneficial micro-sand dwellers. They also may tend to eventually perish in small tanks due to starvation.

Serpent stars and brittlestars don't burrow in the sand but make great scavengers.

Nassarius snails and even a fighting conch make great burrowers as well. 

I only have two nassarius snails in my tank. Most of the sand churning gets performed by burrowing bristleworms (hitch hikers).


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## BettaFriend

I'm back from Houston. Doesn't look like any opposition to my suggestions so I guess they are fine? I didn't get a seastar because the only thing they had was _green_ britte stars. It was during feeding time, so it was pretty wierd seeing the _green_ brittle stars crushing those poor (dead) fish. They have some scary spikes on the bottom of their...arms.

Anyway, I spent $36. I bought a bag of InstantOcean Seasalt that cost $16.99 +tax, a Coralife Hydrometer that cost $13 +tax, and I got 2 inverts.

1 Blue (leg) Hermit Crab (YAY!)
1 ??? Turbo Snail (I don't know what kind)

I saw chocoalate chip stars and I wanted to get one, but they aren't reef safe from all I have heard. Same with Emerald crabs, I have heard they aren't reef safe. I also didn't get another shrimp because I don't know how the shrimp I already have would interact.

This was actually the first time I had seen SW fish other than the 2 I have, and the 2 my lfs along time ago. I saw alot of fish. All kinds of clownfish, gobies, blennies, dragonets, eels, lionfish, triggerfish, hawkfish, starfish, cucumbers, etc. It was amazing!

Anyway, will the Blue (leg) hermit and Turbo snail be Ok? Do I need to feed them or will they be fine? I know I should have known this before, but we aren't go back to Houston for several months now. I had already done research and knew they are pretty easy to take care of.

I am floating them right now, but I am about to take them out. Can't wait to get some pics up! Post with any problems!


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## BettaFriend

*Will my crab be Ok??*

Hi guys. I have a problem. I am worried about my little (they are called "dwarf" for a reason) hermit crab. It is a Dwarf Blue-Leg Hermit Crab, and *I haven't seen it since early this morning*.

This wouldn't bother me too much except for what I _have_ seen since this morning. I have seen *over 8 brisleworms* in the tank, everywhere! Everywhere! They weren't there yesterday. I don't even think I saw a bristle worm yesterday, but today I saw one, and then 2 at once, then 3, and the more I looked for my hermit crab, the more bristle worms I saw! It is like a Rated R horror movie (not that I have seen any of those).

*Can/Will the bristle worms hurt my tiny Dwarf Blue-Leg Hermit Crab in any way?? * I am worried about my new little guy.

I have to go on a weekend campout (with the Boy Scouts), so if I don't get a response very soon, I will be worried about the my Hermit Crab the entire time. 

It is small, but I really love that guy!


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## cossie

bristle worms are in my tank and they dont touch anything and ur crab will be there i thought i lost one of my hermits in our 20g but he came out in 2 days lol nd your tanks bigger.

dude everything gonna be ok lol


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## kay-bee

A single hermit crab can sometimes become hard to find in an aquarium (most start out with a multitude of hermits, sometimes in the order of 1 hermit per gallon of aquarium volume).

The only time to worry is if you find the shell that the hermit crab lived in suddenly unoccupied and have no other alternate shells in the tank.


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## BettaFriend

I just got back from camp, so that is why I haven't replied.

I saw my cute little hermit crab right before I left. I couldn't post it because my parents wouldn't let me touch the computer before I went.

I haven't seen it since I got back, though. I am sure the little guy will be fine. I want to get more species of hermit crab, but I don't want any crab that would hurt my Dwarf Blue-Leg. Any good, non-aggressive hermit crabs (preferable abit bigger than the blue-leg) I could put in my tank?

Thanks guys!


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## funlad3

Why? BLHC get sizable! Some of mine are about an inch. And trust me, that's a big hermit crab.


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## BettaFriend

funlad3 said:


> Why? BLHC get sizable! Some of mine are about an inch. And trust me, that's a big hermit crab.


Then why are they called "dwarf blue-leg hermit crabs"? Aren't there species that get alot bigger? I know DBLHC get 1", but I have seen hermit crabs (not DBLHC) that are bigger than that (by abit).


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## funlad3

But then I'd worry about them running amuck (Nice word choice if I do say so myself) and knocking over your rock work. Like I did last night. Trust me, not fun... Well, it is after you're sure you won't break your tank with falling rocks.


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## BettaFriend

*Possible Alternative Plan*

Hey guys. I have kept the damsels too long for my own good. I am not sure that I want to get rid of them anymore, however, I want more than 2 fish. I would be happy with 3 fish, but I don't want any deaths.

I am thinking about getting another damselfish. I am looking for a species that is not likely to harass my other damsels, but on the same note will not put up with crap from the other damsels.

I really like several different species of damsel, I am not very picky. I will not, however, take a 4 stripe damsel (as they look too similar to 3 stripe), and I prefer not to take any more Humbug/3 Stripe, or Blue Devil Damsels.

I have heard that damsels kind of have a "breaking in" period where, when you add a new fish the existing damsels either kill it or live with it somewhat peacefully within the first week or so. My current damsel are not full grown, so I figure that this is my window of opritunity.

If this is a cruel or ir-responsible plan with a low chance of success, please let me know. That is basically why I am asking the forum (of course, I ask the forum about almost everything lol).

If you have any damsel suggestions, or oppose the plan altogether, please post. Does anyone on here have a smaller tank with 3 or so damsels in it?

Anyway, please help.:smile:


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## funlad3

I oppose. What happened to your Yellow Watchman Goby? How can you say no to this face?










Get him, one of the friendly kinds of Pistol Shrimp, a McCoskeri Flasher Wrasse, your Royal Gramma, and a Spotted Cardinal Fish! (These look better in person, trust me.)


http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1926+228&pcatid=228

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+702&pcatid=702

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+2648&pcatid=2648

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+21+53&pcatid=53

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+26+85&pcatid=85


Not a bad list for five minutes of thinking, huh? Now I REALLY want to switch my FW to a SW!


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## BettaFriend

*Forget about the Alternative Plan!*

Your right. I need to remember the plan. Unfortunately I will probably have the damsels a good portion of this summer because I am not sure if I will be able to control the heat (I have a little bit of trouble with this for my FW, but it usually isn't a problem with the AC). My SW tank is always warmer than my FW tank.

Secondly because I need to get a 40lb. bag of 1-2mm grain arogonite sand for the Yellow Watchman. I have seen it for $27 on the internet. I will probably get the sand once I finish my secret tank project (PM me!).

Funlad3, you were quoting my stocking plan, correct? I didn't reconize the wrasse. Is that the same as a carpenter? I don't know if those would work in a 30g, but that would be neater than what you didn't put on your list of links which was a firefish. I also wasn't looking into that specific species of shrimp, but I might end up ordering from those guys. Who knows?

Anyway, I will probably look into that setup later. Thanks for not letting me get carried away with a different plan, funlad3. I do wish I could keep my Humbug (it used to be my favorite SW fish when I first looked into the hobby if you recall), but I like _my_ setup better than that other guy's setup.

Thanks!


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## funlad3

No, that was a completely new plan I came up with. I guess the wrasse I recommended would be a LITTLE cramped, but it'd still be fine. Look for someone taking down a SW in your vicinity. They often sell their 15 year old + live sand for less than a dollar per pound. Just keep looking around!


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## BettaFriend

funlad3 said:


> No, that was a completely new plan I came up with. I guess the wrasse I recommended would be a LITTLE cramped, but it'd still be fine. Look for someone taking down a SW in your vicinity. They often sell their 15 year old + live sand for less than a dollar per pound. Just keep looking around!


Wow! How similar to my old plan! I think I know everyone who has a SW tank in this small town of less than 6,000 people. Your right, I don't, but the only place people communicate is...iTown LOL! Oh iTown! Anyways, I don't think anyone here is taking down their SW tank.

Also, I know that Arogonite isn't as good as LS (or at least I don't think it is), but 40lbs for $27 is better in price than 40lbs for $40. LS would probably work alot better, though. I am not, however, planning on an anaerobic setup, so maybe LS would be less essential.


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## funlad3

Any sand will become live with all of your rock, so don't buy into that scam.


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