# Hardwater Rams



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Has anyone ever kept rams in hardwater?


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Yes and they died ><


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2006)

I know someone from another site that does and they are breeding in hardwater. I don't know her exact GH but I will look (or ask her) and post it on here.

Its possible to keep them in hardwater, but I guess it depends on how high the GH is maybe?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Mine is hard and alkaline and my rams are doing quite well. German blues.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Are they breeding in hard water? I alway thought that low hardness was key for fry, but not for adults.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

My I ask what pH and hardness levels are you keeping them at?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Who me? Not sure about the hardness, I'll have to test it but the pH is 7.8. I know we have tons of minerals in our water - iron, calcium, etc., so much so that the sinks and tubs constantly have rust stains, the shower head constantly clogs after just a few days of being de-clogged, there's brown solids in the bottom of the dish tray whenever we do dishes, and I won't drink the crap that comes out of the faucet.  My rams haven't bred but I'm not trying to get them to.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Boxermom said:


> Who me? Not sure about the hardness, I'll have to test it but the pH is 7.8. I know we have tons of minerals in our water - iron, calcium, etc., so much so that the sinks and tubs constantly have rust stains, the shower head constantly clogs after just a few days of being de-clogged, there's brown solids in the bottom of the dish tray whenever we do dishes, and I won't drink the crap that comes out of the faucet.  My rams haven't bred but I'm not trying to get them to.


Well I didn't know that you could keep normal rams at that pH, but in our lfs there's a new type of ram that apperently can be kept in the same water as say, malawis at a pH of about 8.5! The owner claims that when they came in they were labelled as "jumbo rams", and the care sheet said they've been captive bred to take a wide range of water conditions unlike the usual sensitive varieties. They are much bigger than normal rams, and a lot more bold and feisty, and apparently the care sheet that came with them stated they were compatible with even aggressive mbunas and haps.
They weren't very colorful but much bigger. Apparently they color up as they age.
I bought 2 and they're in with yellow labs and pea****************s at the moment.
The labs gave them a bit of greif at first, but they've settled down.The rams hide alot so I'm hoping they'll come out of their shells soon.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Interesting. How big are the jumbo rams supposed to get, does it say? A quick google search doesn't show much for "jumbo rams," just these from 2003:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6386.html
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6093.html

Now that first one says the ones he saw were huge, 3-4". My male is a good 3." Fishprofiles.com says 2.2" adult length. Maybe mine is a jumbo?

EDIT: mine's a lot more yellow than yours though. I've never seen one with that much white and blue, without any yellow. Pretty, would look very nice in my planted tanks.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2006)

I asked my friend on the other site and she keeps and breeds her rams at a GH of 300 and KH of 80...her pH is 7.2. She didn't do anything to get hers to breed...they just have. Her Apistos have bred as well. She mentioned that she bought tank raised rams off Aquabid...and not from a LFS, so maybe they were conditioned for harder water. 

I have never heard of those "hardwater rams" Cichlid Man. That is interesting. They look kind of like Bolivians (well, the body shape), but have German ram colors. Let us know how they do.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Boxermom said:


> Now that first one says the ones he saw were huge, 3-4". My male is a good 3." Fishprofiles.com says 2.2" adult length. Maybe mine is a jumbo?


Wow, that might be what mine are. I might seperate them from the other cichlids they're in with at the moment and have a go at breeding them once they get a bit bigger.
They're both about 2 inches at the moment, still quite big for a ram.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I just got a ruler and measured them (against the glass). The two females are just over 2" and the male is just shy of 3".


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2006)

I think you do have Jumbos Boxermom. Most GBRs get a max of about 2 inches, maybe a little over.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Wow. Who knew?  I never really paid much attention to the listings of their size, just knew they were relatively small.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

My cousin used to keep them in hardish water, but eventually they got fungus or hole in the head.


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