# New tank cycling help?



## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

hey guys!

I'm brand new here, and a soon-to-be fish owner.

I have a ten gallon tank freshwater tank set up, with a filter/pump. It has two plants in it- a bright green one (something something ivy I think it was called...?) and a darker red one, with long tapered leaves, and it also contains a ramshorn snail (ironically named Turbo).

I have a few questions, I've been cycling the tank for around two weeks now, and I intend to put a small fantail in the tank next weekend (I've asked countless friends who breed/keep fish and they've all told me three weeks sounds good!)

1. The ivy plant is dying, I think. A few of it's leaves on each stem are moldy, which the snail loves, but I'm worried it's going to die and go gross! Should I give it a few days to see if it perks up or pull it out?

2. My snail friend has white streaks, like bleach marks on his shell. I've done research and have been told it's due to a lack of calcium, and I've sunk a "dime" sized piece in the tank (or a piece around the size of a 5 cent coin for all us Aussies). I've been subtly hinting to him that he should try and munch on it, but he doesn't seem too keen. Any ideas on what to do?

Thank so much guys!


** Thought I should add- I DO NOT have a water testing kit yet! I'm really really poor (uni student life  ) and have been buying things really slowly as I save for them.


EDIT-- Thought I should add the tank doesn't smell moldy or yucky at all, it actually smells like freshly washed lettuce!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

welcome to the group!.
First please read up about fishless cycling. 
Letting a tank sit for several weeks without an adequate ammonia source does not count as cycling the tank. It basically gives time for airbubbles to dissipate from the water and to let the dust settle so to speak.
You are likely getting a small amount of ammonia into the tank with the snail.
I hope you are feeding it real food because there will be virtually nothing for it to eat other than the plant. The plants will not do well if you have no food source for them to eat--ie ammonia, nitrates.

Goldfish are fish that make a lot of ammonia in the tank and should you add one now before the good bacteria have developed in your filter you are likely going to have a fish on hand that develops ammonia burns and may up dying
. 
As suggested please look up fishless cycling. It can be done fairly cheaply with fish food in a small nylon bag placed into the tank but in reality the process is going to take 4-6 weeks. I urge you not to put in a fish until the tank is further cycled . Of course if you are going to change a huge amount of water every day to help ameliorate the ammonia levels that will develop that is another topic.
A good test kit is necessary to start out with. An ammonia kit is the minimum you can get by with IMO. A nitrite kit is great to have too. There is much science and chemistry in setting up a tank-- all quite fascinating.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

Mousey,

Probably should have clarified- I have gotten a filter "squeezing" from my friend's well established, disease free tank and have been doing a fish food "cycle" for these past three weeks (it's been three weeks today I believe!)
I was assured by this friend- who has kept fish for 15 years, that three weeks, with the bacteria I got from him and the fish flakes, would be enough time to get my cycle up and running.

As well as that bacteria, I have added (only once) Bacti-Boost, he (fish friend)recommended it to me.

Do you think that's enough time? Or should I still be waiting even longer?

Thanks so much for your reply- I really want to do this properly!


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

When you did the filter squeeze from an established aquarium you cycled your aquarium. Nothing else needed to be done. If you can, do it again and add your fish. The amount of bacteria added at that point is enough to jump start your aquarium. There will always only be enough bacteria in your aquarium to support the bioload inside it.. You added more than enough bacteria to support a fish, but most of it, not all, would have died because it didnt have the bioload of the fish to feed it. This is the same reason you add fish slowly to an established aquarium, it lets the bacteria catch up to the bioload. I always just squeeze a filter into a new tank, let it run for about an hour and add fish. Its really that easy. As far as your plants are concerned, they also need fish waste to help them thrive, but you also should make sure you have true aquatic plants. Usually vines arent. Plants help with keeping an aquarium stable, so even if you have the wrong plants, get some that you know are aquatic and add them. Water wisteria is a great plant when starting an aquarium if it is avaliable.


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## CoryDee (Aug 26, 2014)

A filter squeeze will help to kick start the cycle but without ammonia to feed the bacteria it will die off, fish food takes time to break down so not a reliable way to cycle, also without a test kit you have no idea whether the filter is cycled or not.
I would get a test kit before adding any fish & make sure the filter is cycled.
I'd also add that 10 gallons is too small for fancy goldfish


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Test kit is about the only reliable way to tell where you are at.

There used to be charts on the net telling exactly how the ammonia/ nitrite/nitrate cycle went. I remember that ammonia reaches its maximum at about day 10 and gradually decreases after that while the nitrites rise to their maximum. Then the nitrates kick in.

Yes I agree too that a 10 gallon will not be adequate for goldfish-- only while they are very little. They soon overwhelm the tank with ammonia as they grow.
I have cycled tanks with snails and fish food. The food needs to be switched out every few days as it will start to go moldy. The snail is a good start but is too small most times to add enough bio load. It is better than nothing and a gang of snails can be used to hold the tank while you are awaiting fish once the tank has cycled, but you need to only add a couple of small fish ( guppies, danios)until you can build the load up.
If you are adding a larger goldfish you will need to be vigilant that the ammonia doesn't spike after you add it.
Come back for more info when you add your first fish but please try to get the test kit.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

CoryDee said:


> A filter squeeze will help to kick start the cycle but without ammonia to feed the bacteria it will die off, fish food takes time to break down so not a reliable way to cycle, also without a test kit you have no idea whether the filter is cycled or not.
> I would get a test kit before adding any fish & make sure the filter is cycled.
> I'd also add that 10 gallons is too small for fancy goldfish


Hey Corey, thanks! I'm definitely getting a testing kit- or even taking a water sample to a fish shop (because they can test the water for you right?)

My long term plan is to start off with this tank and a baby fan tail, then move on to a thirty gallon that will be available to me at the end of the year. Do you think that's a good idea or will that stress out the fish too much?


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

mousey said:


> Test kit is about the only reliable way to tell where you are at.
> 
> There used to be charts on the net telling exactly how the ammonia/ nitrite/nitrate cycle went. I remember that ammonia reaches its maximum at about day 10 and gradually decreases after that while the nitrites rise to their maximum. Then the nitrates kick in.
> 
> ...


Mousey-

Thank you also for your reply, I sort of covered the too small part in my last post I think. Should I really be adding a guppy in while the tank is cycling? I know everyone says they are hardy fish and can handle the cycling, but I've heard from a few people that they usually die by the end of it and I don't want to be forcing fish to suffer just so that my tank to get to the right levels.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

No I guess that did not come out right. I mean that once any tank is cycled you add fish slowly-- and not huge ones -- until there is a bigger bacteria load in the filter. If I had a 10gallon tank I would cycle it with snails and food perhaps ,then when the nitrates showed up and the ammonia and nitrite was 0 I would add a couple of small fish like guppies. In a week or so I would add some more fish. 2-3 at a time.

If you are only going to have a small goldfish in the 10 gallon that is what you will put in after doing the fishless cycle. The ammonia and nitrites still need to be 0 and a small amount of nitrate should be showing up. Just monitor the tank for a few days with the test kit to make sure there is no ammonia spike after you add the fish.
If there is you will have to do 50 % water changes for a few days til the filter media and bacteria catch up.
Just remember to go slow. Even when you get that 30 gallon you will have to be aware that the ammonia can spike if you add a couple more goldfish.

I have 2 goldies in a 20 gallon tank. That is plenty of fish for that size tank once they start growing. 

My friend has 5 goldies in a 20 gallon and it is way too crowded. She also has decorations and the poor fish can hardly move.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

I jump start my cycle by planting a small knee hi filled with gravel from an established tank. Stick it in the filter compartment and let it run for 2 - 3 weeks. Add fish slowly - one or two a week. Wait a week or so then add a couple more. Space your fish stock addition every other week. In other words, stock new fish every 2 weeks. I have a habit of turning off my tank lights off when adding new fish to the tank. This calms new fish so they can get used to their new home.

My method may be a bit radical to some but it always worked for me.

When buying test kits, stay away from test strips. They're garbage. Get a good quality test kit llike APIinstead. They may cost more but they're worth it.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Your "ivy" plant is probably not really an aquatic plant, and will only rot in your tank.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

All in all, your plan is okay. Go ahead and add the fish, and remove the ivy plant.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

I agree with TOS to remove the ivy. Some pet stores advertise plants as aquatic plants when it's really not. What kind of "ivy plant" was it? Methinks it's something different all together, not a FW plant for aquarium use.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

mousey said:


> No I guess that did not come out right. I mean that once any tank is cycled you add fish slowly-- and not huge ones -- until there is a bigger bacteria load in the filter. If I had a 10gallon tank I would cycle it with snails and food perhaps ,then when the nitrates showed up and the ammonia and nitrite was 0 I would add a couple of small fish like guppies. In a week or so I would add some more fish. 2-3 at a time.
> 
> If you are only going to have a small goldfish in the 10 gallon that is what you will put in after doing the fishless cycle. The ammonia and nitrites still need to be 0 and a small amount of nitrate should be showing up. Just monitor the tank for a few days with the test kit to make sure there is no ammonia spike after you add the fish.
> If there is you will have to do 50 % water changes for a few days til the filter media and bacteria catch up.
> ...


Ah yes sorry I think I misread you- that makes a lot of sense. II think that'll probably be my course of action then!


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

TheOldSalt said:


> All in all, your plan is okay. Go ahead and add the fish, and remove the ivy plant.


I've removed both plants- I got home from work one day and the leaves had all fallen off. The snail was having a blast, but I removed them because of rot and stuff :/


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

Ice said:


> I agree with TOS to remove the ivy. Some pet stores advertise plants as aquatic plants when it's really not. What kind of "ivy plant" was it? Methinks it's something different all together, not a FW plant for aquarium use.


It didn't look anything like ivy- I just remember ivy being in the name. It was a small, bright green plant with circular leaves. It died, and so did the other one, so I'm thinking I've either done something wrong or the petshop were selling me silly plants :|


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

OK now I'm curious. ) Can you post a pic of something similar to what you had?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

look up pothos and English ivy. Both appear in the reptile/terrarium section of chain stores. They grow well emmersed (sticking out of the water), but not immersed/submerged and will eventually die and rot in a tank.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

All of that plant rot probably helped your cycling, by the way.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

Ice said:


> OK now I'm curious. ) Can you post a pic of something similar to what you had?


Hahaha I sure can try! I actually have kept the remaining healthy stems in a cup, I figured if they end up growing a bit more I may try and pop them back in the tank since it was such a pretty plant to begin with...

Okay I attached themas .jpg files or something sorry if they never show up?

However if you can see the photos- the plant is tiny now, and still is sort of rotted. I really believe this is due to a lack of roots, as both plants I had in the aquarium had little to no roots- they were mainly cuttings IMO. 

I'm a pretty avid gardener, and I've noticed that when you chuck a cutting into the ground without any special care it generally dies... so I'm thinking that was the case with these little ones.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

emc7 said:


> look up pothos and English ivy. Both appear in the reptile/terrarium section of chain stores. They grow well emmersed (sticking out of the water), but not immersed/submerged and will eventually die and rot in a tank.


hahah I know for certain it isn't English Ivy, I have that growing over my back fence though, slowly choking my trees to death...

I know it isn't pothos either, as I have some of that too. 

It definitely looks to me like an aquarium plant, however I could be absolutely wrong...


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

TheOldSalt said:


> All of that plant rot probably helped your cycling, by the way.


Ah! Something good comes of my money wastage and constant cleaning up! I haven't even gotten the fish yet and I'm cleaning already dead leaves and debris out of the tank!!


Another question- my ramshorn has laid eggs?!?! I've had her/him/it for probably two weeks now and it's laid two clutches, about 18 eggs in all. I know for certain there isn't another ramshorn in that tank= there's no plants in it anymore and the only thing that hitched a ride into the tank via the plants is this teeny tiny little thing, a small black snail, that is now living in the cup with my "ivy". What should I be doing about these eggs? Should I post this on another thread?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

i guess the next question is, Do you want more snails?


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

emc7 said:


> i guess the next question is, Do you want more snails?


That would be a definite no hahahaha


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Then remove eggs.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Plant looks like a pothos or some other land hanging plant. If you like those type of leaves go look for anubias. They are true water plants and will even flower for you after a few years.
Sometimes I have used my ivy or pothos plant to help suck ammonia out of the tank when cycling but it is only the stem part that goes into the tank.The leaves and upper stem stay out of the water.If you leave the plant in there indefinitely the fish will play among the roots. It can look quite attractive and is a good way to keep the nitrates down a bit.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

Thank you mousey. I was racking my brain trying to figure out what the plant could possibly be.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

Guys, thanks so much for the help!

Tank cycled, went to LFS on Saturday and bought a couple of plants (researched beforehand this time!) and got a little Black Skirt Tetra and a baby calico fantail.

As I first said, I am WELL aware of the growth of goldfish and I'm in the process of upgrading my tank- boyfriend just wanted to get me the fish on my birthday 

Speaking of- got a 4ft tank for free today! A bloke near me broke one side and decided to give it away. So I have a bit of fixing on my hands, but I'm rather pleased!

Thanks again so much for all your help, I really appreciate it!!
Grace


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

edit*** LFS tested the water and gave me the all clear!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

FYI, goldfish is a cold water fish ---ie. No heater. Black skirt tetra is a tropical fish---ie heated tank. 
It is generally not a good idea to mix the two kinds. Also goldfish produce an excessive amount of ammonia and some tropical fish don't care for the ensuing water.

That said I know there are people who visit here that say they keep goldfish and tropicals together with no problems.
If you are determined to mix the 2 make sure the water is warm enough for the tetra and cool enough for the goldfish. I would suggest about 72-74 degrees and keep up with weekly water changes.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

LOL! mousey already beat me to it and I agree with her comment.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

Can you believe I never picked up on this?!?! I did hours of research, and I am well aware that neons and other tetras are tropical- but somehow when the guy at the pet store recommended this one I just rolled with it. What an idiot! Do you reckon it would be safe to keep her/him around for when I get a betta, or simply return them?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Tetras are terrible fin nippers so I would say no. Also tetras do better in groups of 6 or more. 
Your betta may or may not like company.-- they have very individual personalities. They also do not care for fast current in the tank as their finnage can get blown around or sucked into the filter.
I wou
I suggest that if you want a betta that you have a separate tank/ container for him. Don't forget they are tropical fish no matter what the store tells you. Yes they can tolerate 70 or below but they are forced into that by us and the desire to live is strong. They are much happier being nice and warm. If they are in an unfiltered container you will be doing a few water changes a week.
I had my first batch of black skirt tetras live for a number of years. The oldest one got to 9years so you will want to make sure they are really happy in their home.
I would return the tetra and keep the goldie alone or return the goldie and get another 5 tetras plus a heater. Depends on your budget 
Let us know how else we can help you.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

As far as tetras being fin nippers, it all depends on the tetra species. My neon tetras never nip and yes, they do better in groups of 5-6.

I'd love to get my hands on some blue emperor tetras. They're a pretty fish.


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## khalgrace (Nov 24, 2014)

Hey guys, thought I would give an update.

Got the goldie out of that tank and into a beautiful 4ft long. She now lives with two others- a comet who I rescued (feeder fish make me sad!) and a black moore.

The ten gallon is now my party tank, as I like to call it. It has elodia growing (the only things I found that would actually grow!) and a little plant with broad leaves on some driftwood, which hasn't died yet either!! I've got a massive apple snail in there along with the tetra and a male betta. I'm beta testing this, I want to see how nippy my tetra is before I get him a group of friends to live with, just want to see if my very shy betta fish can handle himself.

I've only had the fish for a month and I've already had a causality! I rescued a beautiful female betta from a cup with TWO NEON TETRAS IN IT. She had a big bite out of her tail and nibbles on her fins. I had her for about two weeks and found that her original brown colour was morphing in a brilliant red with electric blue stripes along her tail and fins. I found her last week behind my bookshelf (where the tank is situated). 

Anyway, I wanted to say thanks so much to everyone for your tips. My fish are super healthy and happy and I'm so glad I've had people giving me advice on all of this!


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