# Any kit recommendations?



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

Since I'm going to be new at a large (to me) tank (30 gal), I was wondering what everyone thought of some of the kits out there that come "ready in the box"? Specifically I was looking at the 29 gallon Oceanic Biocube which is described as follows:

"Features curved glass front corners, side viewing window for filtration water pump, blue lunar moon lights and two compact fluorescent lamps along with a remote ballast. Dual filter intakes, one on top to skim the surface and one on the bottom, allow constant water flow through the integrated wet/dry filtration system. Stands feature matching charcoal color, black glass front door(s), pre-drilled holes in back for cords, along with a convenient shelf for inside storage. Filtration cartridge is a poly-woven pre-filter that contains carbon and fits all sizes of BioCubes."

Anyone have experience with this and think it would be a good way for a new fish person to start the hobby? Or are there better kits out there that you would recommend?


----------



## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I have several Eclipse set ups which are good for what they are, but they are limited in that you can't change the filter out if you don't like it or don't find it sufficient (for instance, not sufficient really for messy fish like puffers) and are very limited in light sources so if you want a planted tank, you're limited in types of plants you can use. In general, they also tend to be more expensive than necessary. You can get a good 29g "kit" which includes the hood, filter, lighting, pretty much everything you need but the thermometer and heater for a whole lot less than one of the cubes.

Just avoid the Biorbs. They're not a good idea at all IMO.


----------



## dolifisis (Sep 27, 2006)

I agree with boxermom. I have 2 eclipse tanks and absolutely love them except for the light source isn't the best for live plants.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Biocubes are really very expensive, compared to what you need (well, I don't know what you are planning on putting in your tank, but I'll assume it's not something requiring extra-specialized care). I would suggest you keep an eye out for used tanks... they tend to go for half the price and often come with the stand and other accessories. Kits tend to be more expensive than each piece would be (not always true, mind you); if you spend 50% less on a tank, though, it gives you that much more to spend on a better heater, filter, lights.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*Thanks!*

I certainly will be starting off simply when it comes to the fish themselves - nothing too expensive as my learning curve improves.

I've been looking on eBay for used tanks in my area but they are all really big tanks - over 50 gal, which I'm not prepared to delve into quite yet. I guess I'll continue the hunt...


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*Possible fish tank?*

I just saw this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HEXAGON-27-GAL-...ryZ20755QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What do you guys think of this tank? It's within a reasonable driving distance to go pick it up. The listing doesn't give TOO much info, but it certainly LOOKs nice.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Have you tried Kijiji.com ? Newspaper classifieds, garage sales... A lot of hassle I know, but you can get a tank for like 15$. If you see a tank on sale at the petstore though, you could go for that, too. They go on sale fairly often and it can be a good deal.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

Zoe, since I'm new to large tanks I'd feel more comfortable getting something that is pretty much just ready to go with all the equipment included. We have a great fish store in Charlotte that unfortunately charges LARGE amounts for their tanks (I was shocked by the prices). That's why I originally thought about getting a kit aquarium so that everything would be "out of the box".


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I hear ya Jaynee  I feel that way about saltwater tanks. I'd love to start one but I'm too scared to not have or find everything I need.
But freshwater tanks are pretty simple. If you can't find a reasonably prices kit, this is what you'll need:

Your tank
The hood
The lights (note: if you want live plants, you'll probably have to replace the bulbs that you get with the tank)
A filter
A heater (submersible)
A thermometer

As well as
A hose for gravel vacuuming and water changes
A clean bucket (not used for cleaning products! fish one)
A Net
Water conditioner
A cycling product (such as bio-spira so you can cycle your tank without killing fish)

And of course, gravel of your choice, tank ornaments (ie driftwood, rocks), plants (live or silk or plastic).
You can also get an air pump (you'll also need a plastic tube and an airstone).

I know that's a lot of stuff, but just make a list and cross off as you go.

I do hope you succede in finding a reasonably priced kit. It's a lot easier to start that way.

Oh, you could also check out a place like walmart. I would never buy fish there, but they should have some reasonably priced tank kits.

Good luck


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The prefab kits are pretty much all the same........
They are o.k. but if possible stay away from bowfronts, hex, and other non rectangular shaped tanks. They limit what you can put in your tank and I cant recommend them for first tanks...

Larger tanks are easier to learn with as they are more forgiving.
Walmart has 29 and 55 gallon prefab kits (I think they are either top fin or whisper) that are pretty good. Decent filtration and unless you're going for planted tanks, the lighting is adequate.
Marineland also makes prefab kits but are a bit more expensive; better filters though.

Just remember if you go prefab, get the largest you can afford. You will also find stands are more expensive than tanks.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*on larger tanks*

My husband would not be happy if I got a larger tank right now. He already thinks I'm going to be in over my head with the 30 gal tank. It's kind of like getting a puppy for a child - you want to teach the child responsibility before they get a puppy, so you give them a hamster to start with. If the hamster lives then you don't mind getting a puppy.

So it is with my desire for a fish tank. I had the 2.5 gal tank as a test run, and found I really enjoyed it even though it was only the most basic of tanks and one fish. But if I went from that to a 75+ gal tank my husband would be horrified! That's like going from a hamster to a full-grown Bull Mastiff!!

I don't plan on heavily stocking the tank - only 2-3 fish to start with, and even then probably all the same kind. And I doubt I'll do live plants since I can't even have live plants in my regular life without killing them with my non-green thumb.

If I have time I'll check out Wal-Mart in the next week and see what they have. Thanks!


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Your analogy, while cute, is not valid. A 75 is much more forgiving. While you dont have to go that big, a 29 gallon (or even a 55) will allow you much more pleasure and afford you more mistakes, should any be made. Waterchanges are less frequent, and if you accidently spill something in the tank (god forbid) the increased water volume can handle it more easily and decrease the chance of dieoff. Rectangular tanks are always longer also allow more swimming space and better oxygen exchange.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*Analogy*

My analogy was strictly for COST comparison - not ease of care. Should have made that clearer in that last post! Obviously caring successfully for a hamster is cheaper than caring for a Bull Mastiff (vet bills alone for that breed can easily costs thousands since they are prone to hip problems due to their size).

But I digress.

I'll definitely be getting a rectangular tank based on this and other threads in this forum that lead me to believe it's the best way to ensure success for a newbie. And I have to stick with 29 gals to start with.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

29 Gallons is still ample  Have you given any thought to your fihses?


----------



## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Our Wal-Mart carries the same All Glass kits as PetCo, both have good prices for them. All you need to add would be a thermometer, heater, substrate and Prime declorinator.  The kits even come with nets.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*fish*



Zoe said:


> 29 Gallons is still ample  Have you given any thought to your fihses?


Nope, I figured I'd get it all cycled and ready for fish and THEN go to my LFS (is that the right acronym - Local Fish Shop?) and get recommendations for the first 2-3 fish to put in. I've been in the LFS and it's AMAZING. An acquaintance of mine has gone to this shop exclusively for a number of years when she started her 175 gallon saltwater tank a few years ago. And her tank is GORGEOUS.

I want SUPERHARDY fish - any recos from here would be appreciated!


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

LFS, yup 
Frankly, I don't trust the LFS to tell me what fish to get. Some LFS are awesome, but I could see someone telling me "Sure, these are great fish, they cost $8387 but they are well worth it..."  Also, they LFS have a tendency to sell fish that don't belong in a certain-sized tank (for example, my LFS recommends a 50gallon tank for an oscar, which will need more like 75+).
There are tonnes of recommendations that you'll get here!
My suggestions, and this is just personal preference:

Get a school of a small fish that you like. For example, harlequin rasboras, danios, neon tetras, cardinal tetras, rummy-nosed tetras. These will be in the mid-to-upper range of your tank.

You'll also want a centre piece fish or pair. Such a ram (these are sensitive to water quality so if you go with them, add them only after your tank has been established for a few weeks), kribensis cichlids, apistos. Those fish will be in the mid-to-bottom range of your tank.
You could also get a dwarf gourami (mid-to-upper)
Or a pair of angelfish (mid-to-upper). If you go with the angels, you could start with a group of 4-5. Two will pair up, you can sell/trade the rest back to your LFS and breed your angels.

Depending on what and how many you chose for your schools (8-12 individuals) and centrepiece fish, you can get a few "other" fish that you like, such as a couple glass catfish, a dwarf gourami (if you didn't get one to start with), a few male guppies. Whatever doesn't get too big, and doesn't need to schoal.

Then for the bottom of your tank, you could get a couple plecos (rubberlip or bushy-nosed), and a group 5-6 of corydoras (such as sterpais).

For fun, add some shrimp, and/or some malaysian trumpet snails, and a mystery snail.

I could go on and on 

I suggest you go through the aisles of your LFS and see what you like and what's available.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*fish selection*

So I should select fish based on where in the tank they hang out, and how large they can be at full-grown? And then from there determine how many fish I can have in a 30-gallon tank without overpopulating?

At this point I don't want to spend a lot of $$ on fish - it's one of the reasons I opted to do freshwater over saltwater. I would die if I accidently killed a $200 fish I only had for one week because I did something wrong.  

And you said BREED. I hadn't even thought of that!! Uh....Jaynee don't want no babies!!! I just want pretty fish to look at! NO BABIES! Is it bad to have an all-male or all-female tank? Or do certain species stay away from each other (i.e. male angels leave female cichlids alone)? What's the best way to avoid fish hooking up with each other (for lack of a better turn of phrase)?


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Well, angels, if kept together, won't necessarily spawn. And if they do, the other fish in the tank will likely eat the eggs. Spawning angelfish can be absolutely horrendous, IF they spawn, that is. Get very territorial. I have 4 together in my 90gal and they have not paired up. So all's good. I wouldn't suggest you have angels in your tank just because 30gallons is a wee bit on the small side. If you loved angels you could away with it, but otherwise I'd go with something else.

Anyway, you want to stock your tank correctly. If all your fish are mid-to-top swimmers, it's not a good use of the tank and it's not so fun for the cramped fish. And naturally, you don't want to get fish that will outgrow the tank.

You won't run into too many 200$ FW fish  Most of the schooling fish range from 1 to 4 dollars each.

The gouramis, 5 to 15 dollars; kribs, 3-5$; apistos, 5 to 20$. Corys, 2-6$; plecos, 3-10$... Nothing I mentioned was all that expensive. Anyway, you'll want to add your fish gradually. It'll be expensive during the first couple months, naturally. Unless you sparesly fill your tank, which you could do. Like a school of neon tetras (25-30$ for them all) and a dwarf gourami (10$ for a nice one).

But it's hard to stop  Start now, putting 10 and 20$ bills aside. Stuff em into your sock drawer or something, and when the time comes to buy your fish, it won't be so bad. Although ,after the initial tank purchase, you might be hurting for a while. But that's why a week of cycling is good!


Back to breeding: for the most part, you won't have any spawning going on. Livebearers (guppies, endlers, mollies, swords) are notoriously prolific and will breed if you put a male and a female together - but because of the other fish in the tank (and the parents, also), the fry will get eaten. My 90gal is fully stocked, I've never paid attention to the genders and I have yet to see baby anythings.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*Oh that's good...*

Thanks for the additional info on pricing. I knew that freshwater was going to be infinitely cheaper than Saltwater. My old neighbor with the 200 gal saltwater panicked when one of his more expensive rare fish started to get sick. Thankfully my neighbor was able to save the fish, but he freaked for a while there.


----------



## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

Oh, man, I hate computers sometime - I just wrote a long note, and it didn't post...... 

Recommendations - if you get a store kit, get a hang on filter, not an undergravel; get fluorescent lights, not incandescent; and get a better rather than the cheapest heater - because the heater has to be reliable.

Get an inexpensive pH test kit, and determine your pH before you get fish. Test it right out of the tap, then test it after it sits for 24 hours. Buy fish that match the water conditions you have, rather than trying to adjust the water to the fish. Lower pH (acidic- under 7.0) would be tetras, rasboras, and higher pH fish would be livebearers such as guppies, platies. 

If you want livebearers but no babies, you can buy all males, and they tend to be more colorful than the females. The under fin on the male is pencil shaped pointing toward the tail, females have a fan shaped one.

My best recommendation for a beginner and that size tank would be one or two groups of schooling fish, such as tetras, danios, rasboras, and a small group of corydoras catfish - I love cories! Get 6 or more of each type in the school, rather than 1 or 2 fish of many types.

I don't recommend cichlids (angelfish, apistogrammas, kribensis, rams, etc.) for a beginner as they can be aggressive, and many get too big for that size tank.

I do recommend some live plants, especially the easy ones - java moss, java fern.

I don't recommend the hex tank, as it is difficult to decorate or catch fish in due to its height, and you want the biggest length and width in relation to height so there is more swimming space. Get the biggest tank you can afford, and remember weight - 8 pounds per gallon, so the stand and floor need to be up to it.


----------



## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

For stocking numbers, for small fish like tetras, the standard is one inch of fish, not counting tail, per gallon. This is based on estimated adult size, and most fish at stores are still young. Cory catfish get 2-3 inches, tetras and guppies about an inch each. If you had 3 cories = 6-9 inches. A school of 6 tetras = 6-9 inches, a school of 6 rasboras 6-9 inches. Those three groups you're at 18-27 inches. Add a couple of otocinclus algae eaters, and you're close to maxed out. Be aware of that and don't get carried away in the buying. These numbers are approximate, and depend on how much and how good the filter is, doing regular partial water changes, not overfeeding. After a tank is well-cycled (several months), you might be able to get a few more than that.

Also stock gradually over several months, so the tank cycling has a chance to keep up. One hardy schooling fish are zebra danios, and they are an active fish, so you get lots of movement early on.


----------



## cheseboy (Aug 5, 2005)

Freshwater is definitely cheaper than saltwater! I have a 20 gallon tank with a 10 sump and that setup is already worth 700$. Haven't even got one fish in yet as for the fish that you put in may I suggest a freshwater shrimp. They are very interesting and you can usually find them at all mom and pops type pet stores.


----------



## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Shrimp are a lot of fun. I added my two amano's a few weeks ago and they're great.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*Thanks for the great info!*

thanks for the add'l info over the weekend. We were moving into our new house so I was only able to check the boards today at work.  

Tonight my DD and I will be heading to the pet store to look at aquarium kits. My aquarium fund has really only just begun so I may not even be able to buy the tank today - besides, it'll be a while before I actually set it up since my house is still a sea of moving boxes.

I'm not worried about water weight since our house is on a slab and the tank will be on the main floor. And whatever stand I get will be specifically for heavy aquariums.

Hopefully in a couple weeks I'll have something to show for my new hobby interest.


----------



## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

where at in SC? I grew up and have got family and visit the columbia/lugoff/elgin/camden area. 

as far as the nano cubes they are expensive but that oceanic kit you were looking at is a good kit. mostly they are over filtered (a good thing) as far as FW is concerned anyway and that will make your maintenance requirements easier. Yes you don't get the "upgrade-ability" that you might if you piece everything together BUT most of the oceanic kits come with PC lighting now and the better ones with the moon lights as well ( a very nice feature for night viewing and pretty good mood lighting to boot if the feeling hits ya LOL) They might be a little pricy but again you are paying for some convienice as well. they have the whole filter built into the tank no external nothing. most even have a hidden area for the heater as well so from the fron of the tank you see nothing but your beautiful inhabitants, no heater, lift tubes or power heads visible. Most just have a solid colored back that the water over flows (another nice feature as it keeps the "oil slick" (protine build up) common on some freshwater setups with little surface agitation from forming) into the back filtration area. PC lighting should be more than adequate for most of your low - mid light level plants in a tank that size as well. If you piece it together you could pay $75 or more just for a good light strip for a 29 gal. not to mention the HOB filter or canister, etc.


----------



## Jaynee (Oct 11, 2006)

*Where in SC*

I'm just south of Charlotte, in York County about an hour north of Columbia.


----------

