# Will this Setup Work?



## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

So I went to the LPS today and after seeing some of there planted tanks, I ended up leaving with what I was told would be a nice low light planted tank setup. 
I have a 33G tank that just has the regular light that is 25W with a AquaClear 70 filter. From the LPS I got these plants:
Hygrophila augustifolia
Hygrophila polysperma
Water whisteria
Sagittaria subulata
Amazon sword

I also got a Hagen CO2 Natural Plant System, and some Seachem Flourish.

Will these plants all be okay with only 25w of light? Would a special bulb help or should I just get a new light setup?
Let me know what you think


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2006)

I think you should upgrade your lighting. The sword and sag would especially like more light. Also the augustifolia would do better in atleast 2wpg. If you could get 65 watts over the tank, that would help the plants out alot more. They may survive in the lighting you have now, but they will not grow much at all (except maybe the wisteria and polysperma) and won't thrive. A special bulb won't help...you need more watts and you can't buy a higher watt bulb than you already have in the stock fixture. You'll have to get a new fixture.

How long is the tank? You may not be able to get a 65 watt compact fluorescent fixture...but anything around 65 watts will work. That would put you at about 2 watts per gallon, which is medium light.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

the tank is 3ft long 1 foot deep and 18" tall.
So whats the approzimate damage (price) for lighting that produces 65w?

In the tank right now i have a
5" Black Ghost Knifefish, (I know he will outgrow the tank, this will not be his permanent home)
2" Clown Pleco
5 Cherry barbs

I plan on taking out the cherry barbs and putting in 3 Upside-Down catfish. 
Will this plants be okay with these fish?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

You can upgrade your existing hood using a retrofit kit. They have them at ahsupply.com, drsfostersmith.com, bigalsonline.com and other places.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2006)

I was afraid you were going to say it was 3 foot long.  It is so hard to find decent lighting for that lenght of tank (I have a 3ft 38g). Pretty much all compact fluorescent fixtures are going to have a 96 watt bulb which is way too much for that tank unless you have some pressurized CO2...which I'm sure isn't the way you want to go.

You might be better off going with a double fluorescent fixture. The 3ft bulbs are 30 watts, so 2 would give you 60 which should be enough for the sword and the sag. The All-Glass double fluorescent fixture is about $78 at Drs Foster and Smith.

Another option is retrofit. At ahsupply.com they have 36w kits and 2 would give you 72 watts which would be just over 2 watts per gallon and would be great. A 2x36w kit is $62.99. You'd have to be able to mount it in your existing fixture (make sure it will fit first ). You can go to their website for reflector measurements. I think with the 2x36w kit you can put them end to end and you have the option of one 34" reflector (instead of 2 smaller ones). I'm fairly certain that will work, granted it will fit in your fixture.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

so basically none of my plants are going to really grow unless I buy myself a new light fixture?

Would it make a difference if i had my tank right in front of a big window that gets sunlight all day?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

No, they'll grow fine. They'll just grow faster with more light, and the polysperma will have more color. If you want to keep your current light, they'll still do okay.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

well i let ya know how they do, thanx for the help


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

so my light is starting to crap out, i was looking at 2 options for my new light
30" corallife double strip, with 2 18w bulbs for 80cdn or
30" coralife compact single strip, with 1 65w bulb for 130cdn

considering price which one would work best for the cost?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Personally I'd go with the 65w bulb if I could afford it.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Thing is with your AC70, you are going to get a lot of CO2/O2 exchange. So keep your water changes down to zero if your going to keep a low tech planted. Just do top ups. If not you will lose all of the CO2 your plants produce and need to grow. As long as your not overstocked and you keep your feedings appropriate, your NO3 wont climb to high levels. If you plan on injecting CO2 using a DIY or pressure then you can add H2O changes. This regimen is tried tested and true. And keep in mind that the more light you have the faster the plants will grow. So ask yourself how much effort you can put into the tank maintenance. If you dont mind pruning/clipping/combing the plants then upgrade the light. Also the higher the light, the more ferts are required by the plants. If you want the swords to grow regardless fo the light, then by seachem iron and dose every other day. Does Macros mon/wed/fri/sun (flourish) and your trace the other days (iron, seachen trace). Flourish on it's own is not enough, you need the trace ferts as well.

ziggy


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

> If not you will lose all of the CO2 your plants produce and need to grow. ... Also the higher the light, the more ferts are required by the plants. If you want the swords to grow regardless fo the light, then by seachem iron and dose every other day. Does Macros mon/wed/fri/sun (flourish) and your trace the other days (iron, seachen trace). Flourish on it's own is not enough, you need the trace ferts as well.



I'm sorry, but I disagree. I have a very nice planted tank that has an HOB filter, sponge filter, CO2 DIY kit, and grows quite well. Its also a low tech, low maintenance tank that never gets ferts, and I'm constantly having to do gardening from the plants growing so well.  I also have another tank with low stock lighting, basic gravel, never gets ferts, and the sword in it is gigantic, taking up almost the entire 29g tank. Much depends on the water. Our water has lots of minerals and whatnot in it. I wouldn't recommend dosing ferts unless your plants start showing a deficiency, then just dosing what its missing. Otherwise you may end up with other problems.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

what other problems would that cause?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Too many of some nutrients can cause damage to the plants. It can also cause algae issues. Here's a good list of some problems that various deficiencies and toxicities (too much of the nutrient) can cause to the plants.
http://www.aquariaplants.com/plantdeficiencies.htm


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Too many of some nutrients can cause damage to the plants. It can also cause algae issues. Here's a good list of some problems that various deficiencies and toxicities (too much of the nutrient) can cause to the plants.
> http://www.aquariaplants.com/plantdeficiencies.htm


Its a shame boxermom that you post such terrible advice on this board. I have read many threads containing your advice and it's ridiculous. Don't dose plant ferts unless they need them??? of course they do, and how can you tell what they are lacking. Can you secret talk to them and ask them what they are missing? Pardon me Mr. Plant, but can you tell me if you need more K, or NO3 ect..... Precisely why I seldom look at the threads, your advice........ It drives me nuts to read. Unfortunately there are some ppl that will read your posts and believe that you know what your talking about, YIKES!!! scary thought. signing off with a smile 

ziggy.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2006)

> Too many of some nutrients can cause damage to the plants. It can also cause algae issues. Here's a good list of some problems that various deficiencies and toxicities (too much of the nutrient) can cause to the plants.
> http://www.aquariaplants.com/plantdeficiencies.htm


That link only has deficiencies...I have never heard of too much nutrients hurting a plant. Overdosing on ferts will cause algae, but it won't hurt the plant directly.



> so my light is starting to crap out, i was looking at 2 options for my new light
> 30" corallife double strip, with 2 18w bulbs for 80cdn or
> 30" coralife compact single strip, with 1 65w bulb for 130cdn
> 
> considering price which one would work best for the cost?


I'd go with the 65w. The first one won't be enough light IMO. You will still have a few inches on either side of the tank that won't get as much light (since the tank is 36"), but you could put some low light plants there. 

Do you plan to heavily plant the tank, or do you just want a few plants? If you plan on heavily planting it, you could try to find a 96w fixture and then get more stem plants. That would help keep the algae down. You could use Flourish Excel to help keep the algae to a minimum, if you didn't want to get into DIY CO2.

What are your plans for the tank? You should think about that before upgrading lighting....that way you'll know what direction you want to go in. 

Oh, and even with a low light tank, you should still fertilize. In that situation you could use an all in one micro fert, like Flourish and then also dose some Potassium, once a week (for both).


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> That link only has deficiencies...I have never heard of too much nutrients hurting a plant. Overdosing on ferts will cause algae, but it won't hurt the plant directly.


Each part of the chart also lists "Toxicity" below the deficiency description and what too much of that particular thing causes. I.e., potassium on old (existing) leaves: "Toxicity - saline conditions, marginal leaf burn, wilting. May cause calcium deficiency in soft water condtions with excess potassium."


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2006)

Some of the toxicities are easy to achieve (Nitrates for example), but others are alot harder to do and pretty rare. Its rare to overdose on potassium. I've read tons of threads on other boards about dosing potassium and how much to dose...people think they might OD, but you'd need alot.

Main thing about OD'ing on ferts is algae...you need a much higher level for them to be toxic to plants. So, basically, its best to fertilize than it is not to. Plants need fertilizers, even low light plants. You just don't use as much in low light....once a week is fine. Most people aren't fortunate to have water rich in minerals. Even so, you still need other macro and micro nutrients that the water won't provide.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

My point, however, is that without knowing what is in the water, I believe its a mistake to start dumping all sorts of ferts and trace elements into the water. Yes, algae is the most common result of imbalances but other things are not so hard to overdose, such as iron, and I've read in many places that high doses of iron can be detrimental not only to plants but also to some fish. I just recommend knowing what is in the water (you can get a report from the city water dept. if you use city water) or seeing what is deficient before jumping in and adding all sorts of stuff that might not be necessary and just might cause problems instead.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

so price became a factor, so i went with the double strip 36w light. dont really bother me if it takes longer for them to grow, this light will still be better by almost double then the old one


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