# My name says it all



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

So I've had a 55 gal up for 6 months. first 2 weeks cycling. everything checked out so i added 10 mollys over a week. they all died at the first water change. new marine land 360 filter/pump rated up to 110gal. new bubbler, complete cleaning no chemicals used. killed 1 sail fin molly, 6 zebra danos, 4 assorted tetras, 1 albino shark, 1 dwarf gaurmi, 2 shrimp. every time i change 1" of water out of the tank weekly, the ammonia spikes to 2.0ppm, and the PH of 7.6. so i got a nitra zorb pouch to clean up the ammonia and began premixing the water and testing it. mixed the water in and yep they died again. tank is crystal clear. 55gal should be able to survive a 1" water change every other week. my fish keep dieing. I wanted to go to salt after a year but I'm not spending $50 a fish when i can't seem to keep these alive. I have a master test kit i use every other day. they only seem to die when i add 1gal or more water from my tap. currently in the tank i have, 3 rosy barbs, one pucosumus (sucker fish), 1 sail fin molly, 2 dwarf gauramis, 3 assorted mollys, 1 shrimp, one zebra dano. is this too many? i have read that 1" of fish for every gallon.


----------



## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Congratulations on your 55 gallon and welcome to the board!

1- A bit of punctuation will make your posts much easier to read.

2- Without some assistance, cycling takes much longer than 2 weeks. You need to add some bacteria, either from someone else's tank or from a commercial product like BioSpira.

3- I'm guessing that you have a Marineland C-360 filter on your tank. That filter does 360 gallons per hour rated which would turn through your water 6.5 times per hour, which I don't think is adequate. I would get another of the same model filter or add on a Hang-on-Back filter like an Emperor 400.

4- Mollys are, in my experience, the most difficult fish to keep among those popularly sold. They like water so salty that it is nearly brackish which most other fish won't tolerate.

5- Barbs are cool fish. However, they need schools of six or more or they get nippy. They will shred your other fish to death.

6- Disregard the one inch rule. It's totally useless. I can give you countless demonstrations on why it doesn't make any sense for anything.


----------



## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

fishkiller said:


> So I've had a 55 gal up for 6 months. first 2 weeks cycling. everything checked out so i added 10 mollys over a week. they all died at the first water change. new marine land 360 filter/pump rated up to 110gal. new bubbler, complete cleaning no chemicals used. killed 1 sail fin molly, 6 zebra danos, 4 assorted tetras, 1 albino shark, 1 dwarf gaurmi, 2 shrimp. every time i change 1" of water out of the tank weekly, the ammonia spikes to 2.0ppm, and the PH of 7.6. so i got a nitra zorb pouch to clean up the ammonia and began premixing the water and testing it. mixed the water in and yep they died again. tank is crystal clear. 55gal should be able to survive a 1" water change every other week. my fish keep dieing. I wanted to go to salt after a year but I'm not spending $50 a fish when i can't seem to keep these alive. I have a master test kit i use every other day. they only seem to die when i add 1gal or more water from my tap. currently in the tank i have, 3 rosy barbs, one pucosumus (sucker fish), 1 sail fin molly, 2 dwarf gauramis, 3 assorted mollys, 1 shrimp, one zebra dano. is this too many? i have read that 1" of fish for every gallon.


From reading your description it would appear your tank was not entirely cylced. Your ammonia should be a constant 0 and if it is not you know that the cycling is still in process. I keep ammonia strips on hand constantly as this is the easiest thing that can kill fish outside of large temperature/PH fluctuations or chlorine. Unless you jump start a tank with a filter cartridge or filter tube that has been in a cycled tank for at least several days before adding it to a new tank, it will generally take about 4 weeks minimum for a tank to cycle. 

When you are absolutely positive that your tank is cycled you can add a good bit more to that 55G. You could do about 5-8 additional Danios and you will need some bottom feeders such as Corydoras (Cories). The most readily available Cories are Green and Albino, but you can find Peppered and Emerald Cories with a little luck. Just remember that Cories need to be in schools of 3 or more as they like to shoal. 

I hope I have helped and please keep an update on your progess.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> seem to die when i add 1gal or more water





> no chemicals used.


Maybe you should start, there are some really good chemicals now.

Are you on well water or city water? Unless you are using a well or rain-water, most likely the city is adding either chlorine or chloramine to your water. Both are toxic to fish and to the filter bacteria. Pick up some SeaChem Prime, it will take out the chlorine and help the fish live through the ammonia spikes during cycling. If you add the Prime to the water before adding it to the tank, base the dose on the bucket, if you are adding the new water directly to the tank (like with a hose), put in enough Prime for the whole tank before adding the water. 

I


----------



## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

These are my suggestions:
1: I think the filter should be ok. 6.5 turnover's per hour should be good. Don't go too crazy with changing out pouches in the canister. Remember, when you add a pouch of chemical B, you have to take out a pouch of chemical A. If you have all sorts of different pouches in a canister, none of them are concentrated enough to do alot of good. I would never go above 3 different substrates, but preferably stick to 2. 

2. You have to use tap water conditioner of some kind. If you are in a city, they add chlorine and fluorine into the water. With new technology (especially if you are in a hot city), the compounds are fairly complex and not easy to get rid of naturally. If you are in a rural part of the world, or somewhere that runs off a spring/aquarfur, you are going to have incredibly hard water (high gH and kH values), which may need to be treated as well. 

3. Add biologicals. I used Biozyme in my tank, but there are other products as well. The point of these is to form bacteria in your tank that convert ammonia into nitrite, then nitrite into nitrate. Lots of ammonia and heavy minerals get tied up in the gravel of a tank, so if you clean the gravel before making a water change, or even stir up the gravel, that is where the ammonia is coming from. The bacteria you are trying to grow will also live in the gravel, and will take care of that ammonia.

4. If you are looking for a good measure to go by, go with .75" per gallon once you go above a 30 gallon tank. There are some obvious exceptions to this of course, in both directions. Make sure you account for MAX size, and not current size. Remember, the goal is to keep them alive to reach their max size. Things to keep in mind would include; location in the water column, aggressiveness, schooling (y/n), constant swimmers or sedentary, etc. I would expand more, but I have to get to class...


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

*new testing.....*

Ok so I'll try to respond to all the help i have gotten. 
First thanks for the help. I do live in a city and I'm on city water. It's the hard water that is killing them. i took a large glass to the fish store (large local chain) and they tested it. They told me I'm basically feeding them cyanide. They said they don't care what store I get it from just stop giving them tap water. So that should solve most of my problems. 

Also the filter is a good size. They said C-360 filter will work for a salt water 110 gal tank. The store mainly deals with "empirum"? filters but they said the C-360 is more than adequate. it's a 3 stage filter system. I conduct the changes and cleanings of the filter according to the manufacturers directions. I need to get some more tank cleaners (fish). so I'm looking at 2-3 corys. 

I have some Biozyme and I used it when I was cycling the tank. I will try to add some more. 

One last thing before i get back to the tank... Why do they all hide in the back of the tank on the bottom?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Mollies like hard water, so do shrimp and danio. Your lfs wants to sell you water, like they do with saltwater. It sounds like your LFS knows salt, but not so much about freshwater. If you change water with the same water that the tank is filled with, you should have no issues. Are you using any dechlor? Fish arer't tank cleaners, they are tank dirtiers. Plecos eat algae off the glass and cories eat off the bottom but they both create more waste. Don't add any fish until your ammonia/nitrite levels are under control or things will only get worse. If that's your LFSs best advice (add more fish and buy bottled water) you should stop listening to them. They are giving advice that's best for the store, not for your tank. If your fish are hiding, either they don't feel good (poor water quality) or they don't feel safe (not enough hiding places). Paradoxically, the more places for fish to hide, the less fish hide. They know they can reach a hidey-hole quickly and without fighting for it, so they feel safe to come out.

Bottled water is an option, but usually water safe to drink is safe for fish once treated. Have you tested your tap water with your kit? Can you post the results for the tap water and the tank?

6.5X turnovers is ok for a community tank that's not overstocked. Two filters give you extra insurance. Recommended but not essential.


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

No i was responding to GHOST KNIFE. with reguards to getting the cory's. the fish store said nothing.

Current water test is....
PH 6.8ppm
Amonia 0ppm
No2 0ppm
No3 0-5.0ppm close in color...

I added Neutral Regulator by Seachem about 2 hours ago. Everything looks fine for now... It's the weekly water changes that are killing everything. 
Current Fish count..
3 Rosy Barbs
5 Black Barbs
2 dwarf guramis
2 Pearl Guramis
1 Platinum Gurami
3 assorted Mollys
1 Platinum Lyretail Molly
1 Pocomus
1 Ghost shrimp
yes a few Different then before....
Thats what i get for sending the wife to the fish store. =)


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

Tap water test....
PH 8.0ppm, Had to use the High range kit.
Amonia 4.0ppm
No2 0ppm
No3 0ppm

I also added 2 big rocks and 2-12" plants.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I do think you'll want more fish eventually, but get it stabilized first. 

The 4 ppm of ammonia in the tap water could be the problem. If you use a dechlor on water with cloramine, you get ammonia. However, if you use a chloramine remover such as Prime the ammonia could be "bound" and not harm your fish, but still show up on the test kit. pH swings are stressful for fish, but 1" of water shouldn't be enough to kill them all. I think neutral regulator (the liquid version) has Prime in it (it says removes chloramines on the label) so your tank water is treated.

How are you getting the tap water to the tank? More than one person has killed fish by using a bucket or hose that was previously used for another purpose and still had traces of something toxic in it. If you have any doubts at all, go buy a brand new bucket and rinse before using. Label it fish only and keep it away from common areas where it might be borrowed for painting or weed-killing.


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

I use a standard drinking glass. Clean from the cabinet. I'm going to get a 5gal bucket or an empty 5gal water dispenser bottle just for the fish.


----------



## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Hold on... tap water has a pH of 8.0, tank has a pH of 6.8. Weekly water changes... shouldn't be that far off. Are you, by chance, adding something to lower the pH of your tap water?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Wait, you're filling a 55 with a glass?


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

Just for water changes. I have a vacuume for the rocks to empty it. i only go down about an inch. Then i refill with a glass. actually it's plastic, but it holds about a liter. Yes it's slow.


----------



## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

fishkiller said:


> I use a standard drinking glass. Clean from the cabinet.


Did it get clean in the dishwasher or with some type of commercial dish soap like Palmolive? If so, there are traces of the detergent or soap in the glass that you're passing into the tank. Glass is a highly porous material and will hold traces of chemicals forever.


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

No i say a glass from habbit it's plastic. I'm learning and reading on this site so I'm purchasing a bucket for fish only and will never have any chemicals in it.


----------



## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Plastic is porous too. Good idea to get a fish bucket. Nothing cheaper than a bucket.

When I got 55 gallon (now in dry storage) I bought a Python and have been in love with that system ever since.


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

At next tax return my 55 will be going and i will get a 125+ and salt water!


----------



## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

You can get buckets form a donut shop.... they get their donut batter in them, and basically throw them away.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you are going to go salt, start reading now.


----------



## fishboy689 (Jul 16, 2008)

You shouldnt get a salwater right after you have been doing the hobby, saltwater is pretty hard to maintain..


----------



## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

fishboy689 said:


> You shouldnt get a salwater right after you have been doing the hobby, saltwater is pretty hard to maintain..


Freshwater is hard enough as it is. Honestly, I have known several people that have saltwater tanks and they didn't end up keeping them for more than a few months to a couple years. They require constant checking and maitenence and if you work long hours or are in college you might as well not even consider it. Most well kept saltwater tanks I have seen are kept clean and maintained by a local store near my house called Saltwater World. The people that own the place do it for a living because it literally takes that much time. They have about 40 saltwater tanks in their store and their average fish cost is about $50 bucks.


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

I have been reading. just getting into the habits now with fresh so i can get salt and be ready for it. Kind of like playing in the minors the going pro later!!


----------



## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

fishkiller said:


> I have been reading. just getting into the habits now with fresh so i can get salt and be ready for it. Kind of like playing in the minors the going pro later!!


Good luck. I surely hope all of your freshwater fish do well.


----------



## fishkiller (Sep 8, 2008)

Glow knife, I'm looking at you listing for your 29 gal and i might keep my 55 and use a spread like that. or i could just go to a 125 fresh and mix what i have now with your 29 gal list. i do want one of the knife type fish. are they hard to keep?


----------

