# Helpful advice in a time of need...



## Guest (Dec 23, 2006)

Ok long story and here it comes. As some of you may know, I've had a lot of problems lately with my tank(s). Ok for starters, I have a 10g and a 1g bowl. I have 1platy, 1guppy and a betta. 

For a few weeks, in the beginning, I had the betta by himself in the 10g. Then I attempted to introduce a platy into the tank as a tankmate...not good. So he (platy) was removed and placed inside the 1g bow which was unheated, and unfiltered (and quite small ofcourse). So I continued on reading and thought that maybe a little school of guppies would help make the 10g tank more lively. Well, when I bought 5 guppies on a Monday, by the Thursday they were all dead except for one survivor  . I couldn't just leave the guppy there to get picked on by the betta. So the guppy was put into the small 1g bowl with the platy. Not good. Too crowded and way too dirty, not to mention unheated (approximately 69F).

So I needed everyone on FF's help. I went into the chat room and asked a million + 1 questions and finally decided that the only way to make evryone happy was to isolate the betta. So out the platy and guppy came and in was the betta in the 1g. Boy did he hate me. So, I began to see symptoms of death coming onto the betta and needed to keep his temperature up. Ahh BRILLIANT. I believe it was (RC) that offered an idea to cut out a 2L bottle and use that as a tank inside of a tank. IT WORKED GREAT! (Thanks again) So I continued on and decided it was too small, which it was ofcourse. So I upgraded it into a 4L (1gallon) opaque container... Not so good. So here I am, with the 1g goldfish BOWL that I started with, in the tank, with the betta inside. 

MAIN MAIN PROBLEM. Thanks for reading that bit, lots of background info. The betta seems to be listless in the bowl and both the platy and guppy know that he can't attack them. So they usually swim right by him and don't flinch when he flares. But everytime they pass by, heflares and protects his territory. Could this situation be from stress or lack of space? I need to pass by my LPS and buy myself a 10g divider and give him more space. Any helpful comments are needed. THANKS


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

Well, first, for myself, I'd like to know if the guppy is a fancy guppy or a regular guppy?
If the guppy does NOT have the long colorful tail (that would slow it down) then the betta can not swim as fast as the platy or the guppy and so I see no reason he should be forced to live seperated from the rest of the tank and its inhabitants. 
You could (if the guppy is not a fancy) just take the platy back to the lfs, get more guppies to create a school and just have them and the betta in the 10 and scrap the bowl all together. The betta can't catch the guppies and the guppies won't harm the bettta so it doesn't matter if they are together or not. I say, let the betta enjoy the full capacity of the 10g to have a happier, healthier fish.


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

sounds like pretty normal Betta behavior. As far as getting a school of guppies the betta will add great stress to thier lifes by trying to attack them all the time. Even if the Betta doesn't catch a guppy he will chase them all the time.


RC


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2006)

but i had the 5 female (FANCY) guppies with the betta and he was very listless and solemn in the bottom in the tank probably from stress but...another HUGE problem with the guppy&platy and betta is feeding...the betta wont let the others eat

Also, when i tried sinking pellets, the platy is much more aggressive and it ends up seriiously clouding my water.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

the fancy guppies won't work cuz the betta can catch them. Bettas are ridiculously slow because of their finnage. And people even breed them for longer and fatter fins which just slows them down even more. Not that a betta can't move if it has to but it is definitely not a "fast" swimmer. 
Another issue with "fancy" guppies and a betta is that he could see those guppies as other male bettas, in which case it would be in his nature to attack them - although, you said he was listless when you had 5 in the tank right? Well, thinking of it from the betta's point of view, maybe felt overwhelmed by that number of "male bettas" and so he'd just want to "stay out of it" until the number was more along the lines of something he thought he could handle in a fight.

Honestly, and this is just my opinion of course, but I'd scrap both the platy and the guppy, get a female betta, a sponge filter, and some low maintainence floating plants, maybe even a piece of drift wood or something for decor, and let the two live in the tank alone together. I used to have a setup like that and it's really cool to watch the male build the bubble nest and their mating ritual is cool too - they wrap together at the top of the water and sink, still wrapped, to the bottom. You need nothing special for them to breed except a slightly higher temp and low surface agitation (keep the sponge filter bubbling at a low rate). I didn't even have a light on my tank - it only recieved natural light that came into the room during the day - or a lid for that matter.

The only real issue I found with this setup was that after the eggs hatch, the male becomes very aggreesive toward the female, to the point of killing her if he can, so I'd recommend, a couple days after the mating event, to scoop the bubble nest out of the tank (it floats on top so it wouldn't be hard) and just let them start over - a bunch of babies is a bad deal anyway cuz what are you gonna do with all the males you'd have to seperate. 

Or, if all that is too high maintenance for ya, just let the betta live alone (or take the betta back and keep the others). Basically, your current combination just isn't working for those fish so I'd say, a different setup, no matter which fish you decide to keep, is ultimately in order.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Keeping two bettas (M/M, M/F) together is a ticking time bomb IME. Even females kept together can require close attention. Some people get lucky but the number of unlucky people is much higher.

Why not just spend the $20 to get a 2 gallon tank with a small heater and move the betta to that.

And just so you know... don't really expect the divider to keep the betta away from the other fish. Bettas are great jumpers and if he decides he wants over, he will go over... or around. OTOH, if he is mild mannered and not interested in the other fish, it may serve your purposes fine.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2006)

for one thing, a 2gallon tank wit heater in canada is probably around $40 The reason I'm not buying another tank, which I ofcourse though of, is that firstly, no money untill christmas, and secondly, not allowed. also, no space
so i dont kow what i should do..


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Well a 2g tank really doesn't take any more room than a 1 gallon bowl generally. Perhaps you could explain the situation to your parents and offer to retire the bowl in exchange for the small tank. 

Maybe theres a warmer spot somewhere in the house for the betta? 

Actually, upon going back and reading your other threads... this was talked about already before you even bought the guppies and then in several other threads as well. You've had about as many suggestions as you are likely to get. I hope that you can find a remedy that makes you & your fish happy.


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## anasfire23 (Jan 19, 2005)

If you're not allowed to keep these fish in the confines that they require perhaps it's a good (but sad) idea to retire your hobby until you're out of home and allowed to do what you like. It really isn't fair to any of the fish to be kept in those conditions. But if you're determinded to continue keeping the fish then just keep the betta in the 1g bowl and place it in front of a window or something to heat it a little. I doubt he'll die, unless the water freezes lol, he'll just be listless until the water and weather heats up. I've kept many bettas through winter in unheated tanks. I realise it isn't ideal but it's do-able if really necessary. Maybe you could rope your olds into getting you a 2ga tank and small 25w heater for christmas? Can't hurt to ask.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2006)

well im going to get money from christmas presents so ill try to set up a lil 2g on the window sill and retire the old bowl as people said...right now, the betta seems to be ok but i dont think he has enough room so i may simply go with a 10g divided tank...would that be better?


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Some people have really good luck with dividers. Personally I haven't. The thing about dividers is you have to realize that if your betta truely wants to get over... he likely will. I've also had a problem with heat/water flow reduction through mine. But again, I know some people that swear by dividers so I guess its one of those things that varies.


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

DO NOT set up a tank on the window sill. It will get too hot during the day. It will also yoyo in temp from day to nite. A betta will be happier at a stready 70-74 then going from 70-85 each day. Spend a little more and get a very small heater if at all possible.


RC


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2006)

Rc, firstly, hes i nthe hottest room in the whole house and it is hot...also, he's at the window sill but it doesnt vary..it stays at high 70's but I know your concern, with christmas money, i may buy a plastic canvas see through kinda divider thingie and a small heater 100%


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## Kageshi17 (Sep 6, 2006)

I would recomend a tank divider that allows air flow better then most at the petstore, maybe a homeade one, and lots of floating plants on the betta side plus a little something that would block his view of the other fish infront of the divider but not covering it, or airflow would be blocked. You can always find a way around it! But another good idea might be instead of having guppies and platy, have neon tetra. My betta chased them around at first but now he leaves them alone. Corycatfish are also good companions seeing as they eat wafers off the bottom which betta dont have a taste for and are never aggressive. Your betta might try nipping them at first but he will get over his curiousity in time. Ottos do good too usually, seeing as they usually stay in one spot and camoflauge themselves fairly well. Good luck!


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Well thats interesting that your room is high 70's but yet your water temperature is "approximately" 69. I've never heard of such a discrepancy. Do you HAVE a thermometer or have you just guessed at your temperatures?

I would also suggest that you consider not blowing off RC's advice. He has more betta experience than probably anyone on this forum and I'm 100% certain that he has more experience than you and has only tried to help you and then only when you asked. 

How do you know that the sun shining on a container of water doesn't change the water temperature? Have you used your thermometer that measures in approximates (uh huh) to be sure the that sun isnt changing the temperature? Just because you don't feel a change in temperature of the room doesn't mean that there is not a change in the water. Its a much different, much smaller environment than the one you are in. ANY fish book you read will advise you not to set a tank up in a window sill. In addition to the temperature swings, it will probably end up with an algae problem down the road.

I'm done here. You went ballistic on someone for trying to help you in another thread. You're snitty with people when they try to help you. You've asked the same question in multiple threads, you were told the problems before you got the guppies... yet you continue to ignore everyone's advice. You got the guppies knowing what the outcome would be, but it didn't really matter to you because you wanted them. If you cared about your fish you'd get over yourself and consider that people with more experience than you might actually know more than you. As a future marine biologist, I hope that at some point your fish's needs begin to outweigh your wants.


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

A small tank getting full light from a window has to climb in temp unless the room in VERY hot. I've seen small tanks that get full daylight climb to over 90degs so be carefull if you do it.


RC


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

I've had a betta tank on a window sill. A bay window actually, north facing.
Which direction is this window facing? as that will make a huge difference in light and in effect, heat in the tank.


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## Guest (Dec 25, 2006)

sorry guys...sorry everyone...i mjust getting so friggin caught up with fish and taking care of them and trying to make verything perfect that ive been blowing up on ppl lately... SORRY EVERYONE...especially in this time of year 

i didnt specify but there are blinds on the window so not only does it prevent it from getting cold but it prevents light from entering and creating algae. 

And about the temperature, again i didnt specify. I actually have 2 thermometers (one of the 1g bowl and one ofr the 10g just in case). The tank receives all its heat straight from the heat of the light bulbs and circulation of warm waters. It stays at high 70's while the room is 69-70 (warmer now). 

Guys again I'm realy sorry, especially (RC). I just haven't been myself lately. And of course your right christine. I should've known bad stuff might have happened and should've been mroe prepared. This may be my final post. I think im going to give up the fish hobby untill im in my own house. Also, too many people have been really picking at me so i think I'm going to retire this account. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. i know i wont have a nice one


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## Matty (Dec 25, 2006)

who do u think you are dumbass....my first post and it has to be about you!! the christmas spirit isnt in your house or wherever u live. I hope u go to hell and stay there and burn and rot.









































lol haha kiddin this is my new account


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