# my masterpiece



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

ill redo this thread here in the am but im gunna post a couple pics of the tank being made here for yall


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Ya, sucks that you lost your thread... I lost mine too. Looks like you lost your account as well.

Oh well, good luck on the redo. I'm not looking forward to redoing mine.. but hopefully I'll get some responses with the same old info


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

Shaggy may be able to load stuff from a day or 2 ago. Atleast I hope so.


----------



## gil_ong (Apr 15, 2008)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Shaggy may be able to load stuff from a day or 2 ago. Atleast I hope so.


not looking like it'll happen.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

its all good, stuff happens, so here we go...

as you can see by the 3 pics the tank is very nicely sized. 
ive decided to go to 2500tw of t-5 ho lights... thats still almost 3wpg and should be plenty. im guna order up some of the turfmaster i think thats what it was... or was it soilmaster..doh.... maybe jom20 could post that link here for me again.. thanks btw....
as far as fish stocking lists.... i keep thinking bout more swords....
so here it is
50 cardinal tetras
50 harlequin rasboras
20 penguin tetras
15 emerald green cories *change from previous*
20 hifin lyretail swords
20 neon swords
20 blood red hi fin swords *costly but awsome*
30 diamond head neon tetra
30 glow light tetras
40 true rummy nose tetras
lastly but not least i told my old wholesaler for corals what i was doing and hes got 25 blue platys for me...
i am stoked with this stocking list and can honestly say i wont be deviating from it... unless its more of a certain fish....

as far as plants go... 
i am going to order this up

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2149&pcatid=2149
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2679&pcatid=2679
as well as a red plant or 5

the lumber was ordered yesterday so when i get home tommarow i can start that, hopefully it will be plummed and h2o tested by mid next week...

anyother questions please post away


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

dbl post sry


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Looks good.

I love swordtails personally. I'm liking the serpae and Benous Aires tetras more and more as well.


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

Soilmaster you'd get from http://www.lesco.com and Turface Pro you'd need to find a distributor here: http://www.turface.com/corporate/wheretobuy.cfm?lp=gb. Both are probably about the same price and possibly color, so just see which one you can get easier. 



I can't remember from the other journal, but are you going to inject co2? If you want the Dwarf Baby Tears (HC) and some of the other plants in the package to be truly healthy, you'll want some co2 for them.


----------



## akangelfood (Jun 26, 2008)

sneasle said:


> I'm liking the serpae and Benous Aires tetras more and more as well.


<3 Serpaes!


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Soilmaster you'd get from http://www.lesco.com and Turface Pro you'd need to find a distributor here: http://www.turface.com/corporate/wheretobuy.cfm?lp=gb. Both are probably about the same price and possibly color, so just see which one you can get easier.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't remember from the other journal, but are you going to inject co2? If you want the Dwarf Baby Tears (HC) and some of the other plants in the package to be truly healthy, you'll want some co2 for them.


thx for the links, as far as co2 injection goes, yes i will be... im still trying to figure out just how big of a co2 set up i will need tho... all i know is alot of co2 and i dont think a diy would be suffice


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

Awesome! I thought you planned on it, but had forgotten.


Nope, DIY would be insane on a tank that large. You'll have better plant growth and less algae issues with something more stable anyways (pressurized). 


I think a 20lb would last you atleast a few months.....but I'm not certain. You may need something larger than that even. Maybe 2-3 20lb tanks?


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

i was thinking bout getting 2 20lb tanks and kinda going from there..... i was hopefull that a 20 lb tank would last 4 months... but thats streching it i think....


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

This will be nice to see how this evolves. Its an interesting size tank, should look really nice when it's done.


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

What are the dimensions on that tank? From the pics it really doesn't look like a 950 gallon tank. Are you sure about that?
Not trying to be an ass, I'm just genuinely curious. :razz:


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

I believe he said it was 8ftx 4ft x 4ft.


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

Hmm, for some reason it doesn't seem that big to me. That would have to be an awfully wide table its sitting on. Oh well. :razz:


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

looks more like 8x4x2 to me, but I so see what you mean.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

got the stand and hood framed glued, nailed, and screwed .. the dimensions are as stated 8x4x4. i havent decided what i am going to use as an exterior finish for the hood or stand, im thinking a deep cherry stain... love the elegance of that.

scuba you are more than welcome to come to wisconsin and see the size for yourself..


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Get it set up, then have an open house and charge admission.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

i should in order to pay for my blood red hi fin swords... cheapest ive found on line is 25 per fish......


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

yikes, wow.


----------



## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

That's actually a reasonable price. I've seen them go for over $50.


----------



## biggallon (Jul 6, 2008)

*im new*



sneasle said:


> Looks good.
> 
> I love swordtails personally. I'm liking the serpae and Benous Aires tetras more and more as well.



i am new to this place , i have a 240 gallon fish tank and i am only twelve and i have questions about P.H. by the way serpae tetras die easily.:fish:


----------



## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

Uh, serpae tetras aren't hard to care for at all. They really don't "die easily"...I think you need to check your water parameters.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I couldn't kill serpaes either. Are they killing each other?


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Serpaes are a hardy fish. I agree, if you're fish are dieing, you need to check your parameters.

Please don't hi jack this thread. If you have question make a new thread or do a search for your problems.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

update, hey peoples i havent forgoten bout you. work has been demanding over the past couple weeks, alot of people requestiong time off this time of year.... however the stand and canopy are done... the pluming is coming along... im having a hard time figuring out what pump to use.. i dont want to have to much flow going thru it so im thinking of 2 cannister filters... my lfs has some rated at 650 gallons each. then doing 2 returns with spraybars to keep some of that deterious from settling on the bottom...... the flow wont be to great either. as i think they had a mag7 equivalent for pumps..

as far as the serape tetras go, im getting major contradicting reports with the more i look into them... seem to be somewhat agressive... not looking to get any agressive fish...


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> rated at 650 gallons each


for a tank that size or gallons per hour? The rule of thumb for small tanks is flow at least 5-10 times the size of the tank per hour. Spray bars are good for spreading out the output flow and slowing it down. The more you churn the surface, the more air exchanged with the water. More oxygen is good for fish, but you lose CO2.

Two identical filters is a good idea.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

gallons per hour sry


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ok 2* 650 Gallons/hr divided by 150? gallons is a turnover rate of 8.76 times per hour. That fine. 

Is the tank a 150? Thats what I calculate from 8 x 4 x 4, but the size got eaten with the original thread.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

replace the 1 with a 9


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

emc7 said:


> for a tank that size or gallons per hour? The rule of thumb for small tanks is flow at least 5-10 times the size of the tank per hour. Spray bars are good for spreading out the output flow and slowing it down. The more you churn the surface, the more air exchanged with the water. More oxygen is good for fish, but you lose CO2.
> 
> Two identical filters is a good idea.



since im going with smaller fish ive always read that the waste produiced is less... and i seriously going too need 4000-5000 gph for filters?


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Still with 5-10 turns per hour, its a good range

Smaller doesn't mean less poo. Have you ever kept cats?


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

everything i have read is smaller means less waste... a 5" fishes waste would be larger than 2 2.5" fish....
if yall are right i may have too look into the sand filters like they use for pools......


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Neons do make less waste than goldfish and as size goes up, the rules change, its more like a pond. And if you stock it at 1/4 capacity, you could have 1/4 filtration. 

Ok, this time I get 950 from 8x4x4. That makes more sense, it has the same footprint as 16 55 gallon tanks. Hmm. 16 canister filters?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

It seems that pond people use bead filters that look like pool filters, but are different inside. http://ponddoc.com/Store/Filters/ProBead/Instruction123.htm 

Are you losing your sump space by making the tank a bar?


----------



## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

wifish...when you are ready for plants contact cory fry at bayleespapa.com..or go bid on some of his auctions on aquabid..his prices are amazing.while he may not do little 10 or 20 dollar orders but he has some insane auctions that are $100 on AB called "whack job"..check him out..i guarantee that you be more than happy with his plants..and his plants are way bigger and nicer that anything you will get from liveaquaria..or most other places around the country..one of his auctions has a pic of his kid holking an ozelot sword that is almost as big as she is..


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Try http://www.bayleesfishees.com/ instead. I got food from them at an ACA past and was really happy with everything (small cichlid pellets, algae wafers). Cheap and the fish "eat it up"


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

thanks for the link, once everything is set up im going to shoot him an email and say heres 500 bucks what you got for me.... 

here where i am getting stumped. filtration. in a prev post it recomended 5-10x turnover. so im going to need somewhere around 5000-10000 gph which i can accomidate my question then becomes about flow. how much is too much.... because that seems more like a reeftank for turnover... now since waste settle to the substraite and the bacteria convert it and the plants use it do i really want a low level spray bar to lift up that waste? as u saw on my stocking list which i have yet once again altered and will post here shortly i have a lot of mid dwellers so id assume i dont want to have the flow concentrated there. and if id use i higher level spray bar to much surrface agitation will rid my tank of the precious co2. so i am just dumbfounded as to where and how to put my returns..... 

my new stocking list
25 cardinal tetras
15 cherry barbs
25 glo lite tetras
15 head and tail light tetras
15 rummy nose tetras
15 lyretail swords
15 harlequin rasboras
15 penguin tetras
15 albino corys
10 chinesse alage eaters
15 zebra dainos
15 diamond head neon tetras
15 x-ray pristella tetras

now getting back to the flow question... would i be better off capping all my returns that are drilled into the tank running 1/2" to 3/4" returns over the top that way i could stagger them?

thanks alot for all the help. u guys are wonderful in dealing with me and my issues.. i know i ask alot of questions however i am only doing this once and i really dont want a single major issue to arise


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

I'd consider adding some loaches and pleco's. With that size tank you could easily add some of the larger species as well. Aside from that, I really like that stocking list. It will be a site to see.

Ya might considering adding a small group of a larger schooling fish, to give a bit of variety and contrast to the larger schools of small fish. 

More filtration is always better. It may just be me, but I would not see a problem using your old hook ups from when this was a reef tank. 

I don't think your fish will have a problem with the flow, especially in such a large tank. They will just cruse around having a good time. I tend to think the best way to install filters is to have them pull 'dirty' water from the bottom of one side of the tank and dump the 'clean' water at the top of the opposite side of the tank. Granted, this may not fit in with the plumbing you already have, but I don't think it is worth the time, effort, and further mutilation of that tank to move the pipes. 

Use the hook-ups that you have, it should work out fine.


Thats gonna be lots of plants. You may want to go in and build some structure (rocks caves and whatnot) so you can have some plants in all the vertical levels of the tank. There are some plants that would get tall enough, but I think having them grow to that height wouldn't look as good as giving them something higher in the water column to grow on. 

Maybe some rock caves with 'plateaus' where you can put some substrate and plants? I think that would look pretty wicked.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

this will be the look im going to try and recreate with some minor changes to call it my own design. lol
i will be using some driftwood as well. not a lot but a few nice pieces 

and thanx for awnsering the flow question, it was my main concern... and i can do it to where it pulls from one end and returns on the other... nothing is glued together yet... 

as far as the stocking some mid size fish... looking at my list what recomendations do u have. it is a very peacrful tank... i actually was thinking about a ram or 2... i think thats what they were... from what i read they are a nice peacful fish


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

emc7 said:


> It seems that pond people use bead filters that look like pool filters, but are different inside. http://ponddoc.com/Store/Filters/ProBead/Instruction123.htm
> 
> Are you losing your sump space by making the tank a bar?



sry it took me so long to respond to this. i decided against the bar thing... tank would visually be in at an akward vewing angle. so it is going to be on top of a portion of it.. thanks for that link btw


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

I like that tank, should look great when your done.

You may want to consider building all that out of some lighter weight material and then just 'surfacing' it with rock to keep the overall weight down.

I'm not really sure what to recommend fish wise. Most of my comments are just regurgitation of my readings for the short time I have actually been digging deeper into this hobby and I am not yet familiar with many of the different species available. 

I like my angels and they are very peaceful, but they can get aggressive and I am unsure how they would behave in a larger group. You may be able to get a school of them going, but I am not sure.

I really don't know of any mid-level fish that get larger that aren't aggressive. Maybe Discus, but I know next to nothing about them. I have heard silver dollars mentioned as larger fish, but again, I don't know anything about them.

Your definitely going to want to go to some sort of canister filter. I would really not worry about flow. Many of these fish come from rivers, and while they may be very lazy rivers, they are not unfamiliar with moving water.

Maybe send s13 a pm. He works for a tank cleaning/maintenance company so he see lots of larger tanks. Maybe he can give some input on filter solutions in your size range.


----------



## akangelfood (Jun 26, 2008)

Discus are beautiful and full of personality, but they are not for the inexperienced hobbyist. There was a local couple who was breeding them and I almost bought some, but they are way too delicate. They are rather stkittish fish and demand perfect water conditions. Some people like mixing them with "dither" fish, to get them used to the activity, but that is not generally recommended. Discus do best in perfect water, with lots of water changes, and in a quiet area without a lot of people passing by on a regular basis. A wonderful fish for someone with the experience, the time required, and a quiet home.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think the pond filters would work, my only concern would be if they are loud/hot. I think outdoors you can use a cheaper pump than you'd need inside.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Rams are real wimps except when they are breeding. Then a pair will defend an area about the size of 10 gallon tank. Any species of Laetacara, Nanocara, Crenicara, Pelviachromis or small Aequidens is a reasonable choice, too. The major cause of "cichlid aggression" is a too-small tank. You should look for "dwarf" cichlids only because bigger cichlids could snack on you neons.


----------



## wifishman (Jun 25, 2008)

akangelfood said:


> Discus are beautiful and full of personality, but they are not for the inexperienced hobbyist. There was a local couple who was breeding them and I almost bought some, but they are way too delicate. They are rather stkittish fish and demand perfect water conditions. Some people like mixing them with "dither" fish, to get them used to the activity, but that is not generally recommended. Discus do best in perfect water, with lots of water changes, and in a quiet area without a lot of people passing by on a regular basis. A wonderful fish for someone with the experience, the time required, and a quiet home.


my freshwater experiance is nil, i have 9 years of saltwater reef experiance... im not to overly concerend with tank maintance as that is something every hobbiest better grasp before setting up something.... im just not sold on discus. i stopped by the lfs in bloomington mn today right next to work and watched the discus tank for over an hr today... hoping to get inspired by them... and it didnt work. however the did have a wonderful tetra tank set up with about 25 different tetras and it was simply amazing. so im guessing that is what i will be sticking to. 

im deffinetly going to be adding galaxy rasboras to the list as well as a few others as well as taking a few off so here it is.. updated
20 cardinal tetras
10 cherry barbs
15 glo lite tetras
15 head and tail light tetras
15 rummy nose tetras
11 harlequin rasboras
15 penguin tetras
7 albino corys
10 siamese alage eaters ( i like them better than the chinese)
7 zebra dainos
11diamond head neon tetras
11 x-ray pristella tetras
17 galaxy rasboras
10 bloodfin tetras
13 gold tetras

now as for plants ive kinda thought about it more and more and here is a list of plants i plan on trying to keep


anacharis
micro sword
cabomba
vallisneria
water sprite
variegated japanese dwarf rush
ozelot sword
java fern
brazillian sword
four leaf clover


these from what little reaserch i have done are some of the easier to care for plants... if im wrong please correct me


----------



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

sounds like a plan.


----------



## HTML.Coder (Aug 6, 2008)

wifishman said:


> ill redo this thread here in the am but im gunna post a couple pics of the tank being made here for yall


looks good [the pic on that post] (for nothing in it yet)


----------



## HTML.Coder (Aug 6, 2008)

wifishman said:


> this will be the look im going to try and recreate with some minor changes to call it my own design. lol
> i will be using some driftwood as well. not a lot but a few nice pieces
> 
> and thanx for awnsering the flow question, it was my main concern... and i can do it to where it pulls from one end and returns on the other... nothing is glued together yet...
> ...


wow! I wish I could do that!


----------

