# Bettas Rights!!!!



## MyCometGoldfish (Nov 1, 2005)

*Betta's Rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

*Hi, I was just wondering ... 
Please send me a "king" king smile or a "cool" cool smile, or a "neutral" |) 

:king: = bettas desereve tanks, you know, with a filter, and a flat bottm
 = bettas are fine in a bowl; they're pretty small and can live in a bowl
:| = I really don't have any say*
Thanks!


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## MyCometGoldfish (Nov 1, 2005)

*:king: BY FAR!*


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## Phillies804 (Nov 27, 2005)

:king: i do not know if this has been discussed before and I do not own a betta myself, but is there no more humane way to keep bettas seperated than in tiny cups where they can't move? I was at a large retail pet store today, and they had the bettas stacked three high and must have had at least 75. I just believe that if they dont have enough tanks for these guys to swim freely in, than they need to not to carry the number that the are currently doing so. Just my two cents.


Henry


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## Beerleader (May 31, 2005)

:king: Well my betta has his own 5 gallon tank and seems to like it better than the bowl I had him in at first


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

:king: just let me start with that, i do think the way those pretty little fish are kept in stores is sickening. but i also think that keeping them in a small tank at home isnt terrible, the flat bottom doesnt matter but i do believe they deserve a filter and what ever "friends" a tank can take. its my understanding that these fish in the wild live in tiny pockets of water, thats why they "breath from the surface", but just because anything starves in the wild and eats as much as it can at any opportunity that presents it self, doesnt mean we have to make it live in those conditions. i think with any pet, fish, dog, children, anything. you should provide the absolute best conditions of life that you can.


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## MyCometGoldfish (Nov 1, 2005)

*Just to let everyone know, I do know that bettas can live in a bowl, but I just hate how they are put into tiny little bowls in pet shops ... they don't even have enough room to turn around!*


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## BettaMommy (Aug 20, 2005)

I would have to say I am . I think keeping bettas in a tank with a filter and stuff is great, but keeping them in a good sized bowl w/o a filter and frequent water changes is fine. That is what I do and my betta has lived a long and what I can tell happy life. I think keeping a betta in like a 25 gallon tank all by itself with a filter and stuff and stuff is a little drastic. I think as long as your betta is happy that is fine.


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## Alisha (Aug 5, 2005)

I agree with BettaMommy. I do think it's great if you can get a tank to put your betta in, but I don't think a 1-2 gallon bowl is too shabby. I have two, 2.5 gallon tanks and teo 1-2 gallon bowls, the ones in the bowls seem just as happy as the ones in the tanks. I wish I could get a 10 gallon for each of 'em, but I just do not have the space.


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm between :king: and . I have kept bettas in bowls before (no smaller than a gallon though) with airstones and plants, and doing water changes often. That seemed to work well.


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## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

leveldrummer said:


> :king: just let me start with that, i do think the way those pretty little fish are kept in stores is sickening. but i also think that keeping them in a small tank at home isnt terrible, the flat bottom doesnt matter but i do believe they deserve a filter and what ever "friends" a tank can take. its my understanding that these fish in the wild live in tiny pockets of water, thats why they "breath from the surface", but just because anything starves in the wild and eats as much as it can at any opportunity that presents it self, doesnt mean we have to make it live in those conditions. i think with any pet, fish, dog, children, anything. you should provide the absolute best conditions of life that you can.



if you consider this a "tiny pocket" of water










bettas live in rice paddies in thyland. they are several thousand gallons and have a constant gentle flow of fresh water from irrigation streams. bettas use their labrynthe organ to survive the dry season when the paddies do dry up to little more than puddles, but this is a TEMPORARY situation, and bettas are not designed to deal with a tiny stagnant puddle indefinately.

they need at least 5 gallons with a filter and heater.

i'm soon going to move my gourami and tetras into my 20 gallon and splut my 10 gallon to house 2 bettas.


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## Imbrium (Feb 7, 2005)

Ok, first of all, the bettas we keep are so different from wild bettas that they couldn't survive for long in their "natural habitat". 
Here is a pic of what betta splendens looks like in the wild
http://www.calypso.org.uk/Photolibr...ecies/images/Wild Betta splendens 990 168.jpg

Second, bettas do not naturally live in rice patties, since rice patties are not naturally occuring.
These pics are a wild betta's natural habitat.
http://www.plakatthai.com/mahachai/closeviewhabitat1.jpg
http://www.plakatthai.com/mahachai/mahachaihabitat.jpg
http://www.plakatthai.com/mahachai/bettaecology.jpg
http://www.plakatthai.com/mahachai/bubblenest.jpg

While a heater, filter and larger tank are nice, and make it easier for the less experienced to be successful in keeping these fish, they are by no means necessary for the fishes well-being.


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## Alisha (Aug 5, 2005)

I think a 2.5 gallon is great for a betta. With a minimal filter and heater. My bettas seem perfectly happy in them. I think 5 gallons is great, but some people just dont have that kind of space.


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## Chazwick (Aug 24, 2005)

I might be getting a Betta in a bowl - but it's three gallons  lol
I would not put a fish in anything below 1.5GAL and that's a fact.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Bettas can survive wothout a filter and all that but I just can't stand seeing them in little bowls. I absolutely can not stand that, kudos for those who actually do a water change though!

I hate bowls becuase of how small they usually are and the smaller ones have been known for blinding or something like that to fish. They've actually been banned in some places.


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

<---------Will not admit to keeping betta's with african type fish


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## Alisha (Aug 5, 2005)

I agree Flamingonhot. Some bettas actually prefer no filter at all, because they do not like strong currents. But it's those bowls that get to me! The first betta I ever kept was in a tiny bowl, provided that I was a young child and didn't understand that they needed a bigger bowl. Now the absolute SMALLEST contaner I will put the little guys in is 1.5, but I prefer the 2.5 gallons.


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## Imbrium (Feb 7, 2005)

That whole bowls make them go blind thing is a myth. I would never keep a fish in a really tiny bowl, like the ones they keep them in at Walmart. But I see nothing wrong with 1/2 gallon, however, I do water changes like crazy, and I really wouldn't recommend this to most people who keep bettas.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2005)

:king: :king: :king: :king: :king:


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## heatherhoge (Nov 13, 2005)

don't know how to get the king so i'll just say king. 

My betta loves his 30 gal and plays with the other fish and doesnt harm them. They are very active and courious. He inspects everything in the tank.


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

I've done both... right now my little king lives in a 2G bowl and is quite happy.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

RockabillyChick said:


> if you consider this a "tiny pocket" of water
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is so untrue. This is NOT where bettas come from. They have been spread to this area but not their original habitat. This is........


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Simpte is correct.


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

this has been disscussed so many times before it should be in the book of world records.

people are idiots and will never learn that bettas should not be kept in small spaces and should be in atleast a 5 gallon bettas along with other fish are living things and can feel and have all five senses just like people they shouldnt be kept in cups because its just plain stupid and wrong. it says alot about people that do it doesn't it?they live in 1 gallon puddels 2 months out of the year and thats it the species would be extinct if they lived in footprints for their entire lives.

now lets tihnk here, put yourself in a bettas mind. how would you like living in a tiny space for 2 weeks until you died? people are alyaws whineing about dogs and cats and trying to change the habbitat of some animals to make them happy. but when it comes to anything else like a rabbit,lizzard,or fish its a worthless piece of flesh and bone that you can stick in a small space for 6 months until it dies. lemme just quote a girl in my school to make a point...


> whats the point of banning goldfish bowls, you just put one in a bowl, it lives for six months,dies,and you get another.


just face it no matter what you do, how hard you try or hope, people will stay stupid and continue to put bettas in tiny cups.just because some misinformed idiot that works at walmrt said so. you can protest all you want, but your voice along with many others will be drowned out with the carlessness and ignorance of society, and burocracy. and the demand for a nice looking pet that doesnt take up space on your countertop.

unless one of you invented a mass-hypnosis device and broadcasted it on the 7:00 news there is no chance that cruelty of bettas and other animals will ever end


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Solar-ton: Their natural habitat is the pictures Simpte posted. They did NOT originally come from rice paddies! Read Simpte's post a few times until you understand it.


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## Chazwick (Aug 24, 2005)

No animal should be kept in a small space, whether they are small or not -_-
Not even Bettas, when will people learn?
At the end of the day, i don't welcome two tetras into a 2GAL as much as a Betta.. they have to live in this places for LIFE, and no animals should be subjected to 2gallons of water for a lifetime and deep down we all know it, unfortunately, too much people are in the fish keeping business for the money and for "decorative" purposes, the tanks are decorative.. not the fish. You wan't a decoration? Buy a tank with DECORATIONS then, don't use fish.


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## Fish Friend (Sep 10, 2005)

Hmmmmm.......So back to the point, i think we all need to stop bickering here...
I would say :king: /  you will have to ask my why i think that :fish:


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I have a question. I'm not a keeper of betta's, but this is something I have wondered about before. How do you keep those small containers "cycled"? When you change water, do you change all the water? Do you also wipe out the cup/ bowl? With no filter, where is the bacteria? It is a fact that ammonia is very toxic and burns the gills. Are bettas immune to this???


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

I used to change all the water and sometimes wipe out the bowl. If you change the water often enough, there isn't really any reason for it to be cycled, because there is not enough time for ammonia to build up. At least that's how I understand it...


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## Chazwick (Aug 24, 2005)

I've heard that bowls, should just be filled with bottled water, add some de-chlorinator, and everytime you clean it out, do the same.. is this true??
So, you can change all the water, with new bottled water and more dechlorinator, and the fish will be fine?


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## kelicom (Sep 27, 2005)

Amen to what Solar-ton said.

Fish need room to swim. Period.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Lydia said:


> I used to change all the water and sometimes wipe out the bowl. If you change the water often enough, there isn't really any reason for it to be cycled, because there is not enough time for ammonia to build up. At least that's how I understand it...


You may be right Lydia, but I tend to think that water is normally not changed often enough, I would think with a fish as large as an adult male betta, every couple of days is needed..... It would be interesting for someone with bettas in small containers and an ammonia test kit to do some experimenting.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I keep 40+ bettas at any given time. Yes they all get 100% water changes at least once a week (twice if I'm preparing them for spawning). A bettas "natural" habitat is one of murky dirty water. While I'm not saying keep them in dirty water, keeping them with other fish is not "natural" either. They seldom see other fish let alone bettas. They seldom fight to the death. When they meet in the wild (usually due to spawning area or a female), they nip and bicker with the loser swimming away to try again. NONE of us can keep a fish in the perfect natural habitat. Putting 12 neons in a 55 gallon tank is still small to what they are used to. Nor do we simulate their natural feeding habits. We do the best we can with what we have.

To answer your question ron, the tanks don't cycle, yet neither do 5 gallon tanks. Its near impossible, and beyond most people limits to keep a stable 5 gallon tank. A waterchange in that tank will cause a mini cycle, larger than what most believe. I keep my bettas in 1 gallon jars. Sure I wish I could keep them in larger ones but I assure you, my fish are well taken care of and fed better than most. They get live foods such as daphnia, grindal worms, wingless fruitflies and such. I'm not the average betta keeper either. My fish live better than I do.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Why can't a 5 gal. tank be cycled and why would a water change cause a mini-cycle?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Simple rule of dilution. Less water, more impact anything has on it. Add 10 ml of Nh4+ to 5 gallons of water. Then add the same amount to a 55 gallon tank. See which one shows more ammonia in it. There is so little bacteria in a 5 gallon tank and so little water that the slighest change in anything will cause a mini cycle. Add too many fish (which is easy to do in 5 gallons) and the ammonia spike will kill bacteria. Overfeed and the same thing can happen. Change 1-2 gallons and test 24 hrs later. You will see ammonia. Hope the temp is the same or the tank temp will drop or raise depending.


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## CallMeJoe (Dec 1, 2005)

I have betta & black mystery snail in 5 gallons with UGF & small Amazon sword. Weekly 20% water change. Chem checks at any point of week show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites & 10-20 ppm nitrates. Why no recycle?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Simpte said:


> There is so little bacteria in a 5 gallon tank and so little water that the slighest change in anything will cause a mini cycle.


I don't think so... I think that a properly filtered 5 gal. tank can process the amount of ammonia given off by one male betta.... However, assuming that you are correct, wouldn't that suggest that bettas shouldn't be kept in small containers. If the ammonia can't be controled, either bettas are immune to ammonia poisioning or they are being hurt.


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## Imbrium (Feb 7, 2005)

When you keep bettas in small containers you change all the water. Basically it works this way:
-when you first get the fish put him in a clean container
-check the ammonia everyday
-note the day on which the test shows ammonia, and then change the water
-next time, change the water after the number of days before the ammonia showed on the test
-example: first day-no ammonia
second day-no ammonia
third day-no ammonia
fourth day-small amount of ammonia
so you would change the water every third day, before the ammonia gets high enough to even show on the test.
The smaller the container, the more often you change the water. This is not a system that is good for most people, as most people don't want to do water changes that often.


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## Frozen (Jan 4, 2006)

Iv seen betta's in plastic fish baggies, but the water had to be only 1 and 1/2 inches high when the bag was tipped on its side (as it had to be). Apparentally this pet store (This was at a Classic Pets in Oklahoma) thought they could do fine as long as they were wet. I was disgusted, and it made me want to buy them all right there to save them. I could'nt of course, as I live hours away and that would be expensive, but it was really sad.


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

ive got my bettas in a 20 gallon but i still have to get them a hood and stand...if i ever move someplace else (i.e out of new york state) im gonna dig a pond for my oscars, a good 2,000 gallon and try to make it a natrual as possible and for the gouramis maybe a little bigger. of course i could do this now because i have a 1 acre yard with a pre-existing pond but my dad is an idiot and whines his head off and gives me incredibly stupid reasons why i can have a pond...but my mom thinks it would be a good idea to have one lol...i talk to much dont i?


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## honmol (Jan 2, 2006)

I would just like to point out that while that may be their natural habitat, most bettas that we buy aren't natural either. They've been genetically mutated so that people find them pleasing and then those same people go and abuse them. So before talking about a natural habitat, talk about how the people that have caused this should at least be responsible and give these innocent animals a good home


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Genetically mutated? I think not. They are not Glo-fish. Have they been selectively bred? yes. Do I buy bettas from lfs? no. Do I buy only from reputable breeders in the IBC? again yes.


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

yes they are just selectively breed in the wild bettas have short fins, when you see a betta that glows in the dark,that is genetically mutated


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

How come Betta threads get so long? lol dont make me whip out my photo of my betta in a actual 1cup measuring cup, cuz i will!*






































(Legal notice)
Please note* Photo may be unaccepticle to the weak hearted members, and may not understand the entire reasoning as to why the betta was in the cup while during the photo shoot.


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