# Jump starting the cycle help...



## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

my 55 gal is all new, 30lbs of agronite, 20lbs live sand, and 20lbs live rock, and i plan on putting in another 20lbs in a week possibly 2 weeks....

im debating on weather or not to jump start the cycle, or 'wait' for the FULLY CURED live rock to do so...which i dont know how it could because there cant hardly be enough die off on 20lbsto start the cycle can there?

anyways, should i buy a small fish like a damsel or should i add amonia? if so how much? a tbsp? or should i throw in some shrimp?

and once the amonia goes in...what am i watching for? the amonia to spike and come down? should i watch the other ph/nitri/nitra??? thanks


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

ANY rock you buy will have some dieoff. YOu could add bio spira but I perfer letting the rock do it. Add the next batch of rock as soon as you can and let mother nature take its course.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

bio spira? what is that? is it good? whats it do?...is it like that stuff called cycle?


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Your live rock will provide you with everything you need. As Damon said, there will be die off on the rock, but there is also benifical bacteria and micro fauna that help break down organics. I wouldn't add anything else because well you don't need too. You also might want to add all of the rock you can on day one. If you wait another two weeks to add another 20 pounds you will need to wait for the tank to cycle yet again. You would be pushing maybe over a month before you could even add your clean up crew. Good luck.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

wait a minute....so if my tank cycles...and i add live rock that is already fully cured, it will have to recycle
?


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

even adding cured rock will cause a mini cycle. Actually anytime you add anything new whether fish, inverts, rock, sand, their will be a small cycle. As for adding the cured live rock it really depends when and how you get it. If it comes from one tank to another and is in water the whole time there will be little die off, but if it is cured and just wrapped in wet papers, you will still have die off even though it is cured. Sponges are the biggest thing for they typtically can't survive when they come in contact with the air.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That's why you're _supposed_ to put in all of your rock at the same time instead of adding and adding it.
The quality of the rock has a big impact on this, though. You can't add a bunch of bad, raw rock without things getting so bad that your good rock goes bad. If you have good rock you can put it all in at once and not have to fuss with it anymore.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

*Raises hand

One question TOS, Let's say he already have live rock in his tank and 2 weeks later he buys 20 more lbs of LR and cures it in a seperate tub to cycle and cure. Once those 20 lbs of LR is cured, can he add them in the DS without having to cycle his DT again ?


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

im not TOS, but i found out the answer...basically from what i have been told is that anytime you add anything, be it fish, ..ect...there is a change in amonia, which causes a mini cycle, if the tank is well established, it should be no big deal....

but someone must have misunderstood my question... im making a fish tank, and it will have about 40-50lbs of live rock, some coral (hard and soft), and maybe 7 or 8 fish (small). i have 20lbs of live rock in it right now...its cycling. once its dont cycling i should have enough bacteria to accept mino changes...like adding another 20lbs of rock! i think


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

adding another 20 lbs of uncured LR will cause a cycle, no doubt.

If u add 20 lbs of base rock, this you will be fine.

7-8 fish!? only 40 lbs of rock!?

you should be shooting for about 85 lbs or rock and where fish are concerned....well that's gonna be too many.

Yes each time u add something like a fish the ammonia level might change, but if you have a good bacterial filter (85lbs of LR) it will never be noticed.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

this is a FOWLR tank. 7 or 8 fish? i did say small fish, like damsels and such (but not damsels)

all the live rock is fully cured, and from and established tank.


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

small fish like damsels..... I don't know about u, but I don't consider 6" fish in a 55 to be small...especially 8 of them.

Shoot for a pair of clowns and couple more small fishies, like gobies or a six-line or something of the sort.

if the like rock is fully cured then there is no die off and no cycle. Just make sure and get enough.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

i thought damsels only get to be 1" maybe 2"...is this too much, this is what i want, but it sounds like ill have to modify

1 dwarf lion
1 trigger
1 clown
1 basslet
1 pearly jawfish

those are all the fish i want, i think it equals out to about 12" of fish in all...is that right for a 55 fowlr? im gonna go grab another 20lbs of rock today,


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

oh yah, only them if they are all compatible, a tang would be sweet too...i should have got a 75 gallon DOH!


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

wow...you haven't done much reading at all...

toss the lion and trigger outta that list and add another clown

what kind of clowns? what kind of basslet?

which would end up being about 21" of fish...but really counting the inches isn't the best way, but if ur gonna do it u measure 1" of fish to 2 gallons of SW. The tank also has to be big enough for the fish 

go grab another 60 lbs of rock....


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

i went and got more rock today, im up to about 40lbs now...which i know is not enough still, its all already cured, but how much total will i need for a FOWLR tank?


also- i have read a TON...about the actual tank set up and stuff, i have read nothing about the actual fish and which onces get along...ect....so i figured before i put fish in (in about 2 monthes hopefully) i will be read up by then.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I may have misread but I believe I saw you say you wanted 7-8 fish and a few corals. Then later you said FOWLR. You cant have it both ways (even though FOWLR is a reef tank). And adding 20 lbs of liverock will no doubt cause a big cycle.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

adding 20lbs of FULLY CURED live rock could not cause a big cycle. there would not be enough die off. its just moving from established tank to established tank.... fish only with live rock is considered a reef tank? that i did not know...i thought that it meant having a lot of fish and some live rock...i just got live rock beacuse it looks sweet and natural, not because its my main filtration.


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

I know everyone is telling you to add more liverock, but it is hard to go by pounds alone. Some rock is more pourus then other rock which would mean you would need less rock. What kind of rock did you get? Live rock is the best filtration for saltwater tanks so you really don't want to go cheap and not have enough.

Do you want fowlr or reef. You say you are setting up a fowlr but want corals which would make it a reef. Not that it matters, but if you do want to go with corals you are going to want to make sure you have the lighting for it.

As for fish i would just go and reserach fish that catch your eye. See what they need, how difficult they are to keep, what kind of agression they have, and so on. It is a good idea to have your fish list before adding the first fish because you should add the most passive fish first and then add the most agressive fish last.

Good luck and happy reading!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

If you add fully cured rock to a tank, it's still going to cycle. It isn't going to cycle in the way you typically think, though, and I'm glad you mentioned this because it leads to something usually overlooked.

There is so much food available in a tank for the bacteria.
The bacteria grow to a point beyond sustainability by that level of food.
They then die back a bit or shift gears to use a different kind of food.
At this point, a balance of sorts is reached, and the tank is cycled.

Adding more rock and bacteria to the tank disrupts this balance. The bacteria starve or are forced to shift gears again. The dead bacteria become food for live ones. Chaos ensues. Eventually, though, the balance is reached again.
The tank's keeper may never even notice this most times, BUT if the tank has a bunch of animals in it, is is possible that the nitrification of their output ammonia will be suspended while the bacteria are busy with their little war. This can cause problems; if the bacteria quit using ammonia for a time, that ammonia will build up very quickly until the bacteria go back to using it.

So, then, what to do about it?
The answer is simple.

If you add new live rock to the established tank, don't feed the fish for about two days and make sure the skimmer is running full tilt boogie. The odds are good that you'd never have a problem anyway, but better safe than sorry.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

Wow ! Thanks for the insight on my question TOS !! It's great to learn something new whenever a "what if" scenario arises in my head.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

wow, you guys are like smart...thats awesome...anyways, i DO want corals, and fish. i am buying MORE live rock today to end it all...fill up my tank...ill be over that 55lb mark which everyone is raving about....and all the rock i buy is Fiji. and @7 bucks a lt ir better be good, lol.

as far as lighting goes, i know i have a good light....i think anyways, its a Coralife 48" 260w aqualight...so it pretty much is putting me @5watts/gal...it was almost 300 bucks...so anyways, (and it held off the tank with the legs).

Can i have my 55gal tank, with fish, coral and live rock? thanks.


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

oh, so i guess to answer your question, it would be a reef tank then right?


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

what are the bulbs? im guessing 10k and actinic.

If that's the case then yes u can keep coral, but remember that you have to replace those bulbs every 6 months.

Before you do much else I would start reading and researching on what fish and what corals you would like to keep.

For corals try staying with things like zoanthids and mushrooms, xenia, anthilia, and leathers for now.

Do you have any flow? Powerheads?


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## Heymybigfish (Jul 30, 2007)

ok bear, i took your advice, and yes your right about the light, 10k whatever....i went out and bought ALL the live rock i need...i have over 1lb per gallon now....i actually had to remove water from all the live rock i added...total about 400$ of rock.

anyways, i have it all set up like a cool mountain....it starts a like a LOT of rock on one side and slopes down to the other side where the rock is less..like this

___
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kinda like that. all the live rock is FULLY CURED, and has come from a well established tank, its sitting on 30lbs of agronite, and 20lbs of livesand (from a bag), and 1lb of live sand from another, established sw tank, that had a zebra eel, a tang, and something else in it....

the filter is a Fluval 305, you guessed right on the light, and it also has the 65/g protein skimmer, (corallife)

all my lvls are at pH-8.2, ammonia-1.5ppm (i was adding amonia to start the cycle), nitrite-0, nitrate-0.

if you were me, whats your next step? i was assuming i would just keep testing the water and waiting for a while for it to cycle..

should i

1- keep adding ammonia
2- stop adding ammonia and add damsels for natural ammonia?

thats all i know...is to keep testing and waiting for the nitrites to start, then the nitrates, and once they all start to drop, add a cleanup crew.

if you were me, how much cleanup would you add? i was on this website

saltwaterfish.com

and they have like a $90 package thats like 40 snails, 33 crabs, and shrimp and a starfish...but i thought that that might be overkill....BUT am not surem thanks for all your insite...


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