# 55 gal tank



## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

I am currently in the process of starting a 55 gal tank. im planning on doing a fishless cycle. i want to get several cichlids because they are colorful and i personaly think they look cool. I specificaly like the blood parrot and convict. i was wondering if these types get along well together? and what are some other good tank mates? thanks for any suggestions.:help: 

we will probably be able to start cycling the tank in 2 or so weeks because we are building a stand for it and we need to get filters and lighting. i was looking at the penguin 1140 and a smaller 10-30 gal hob filter.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Penguin 1140? Is that a powerhead for an under-gravel filter? If so, I'd suggest somethign more modern and powerful, like a pair of Emperor 400 HOB filters or some sort of a canister set up.

Parrots are really beautiful.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

yeah the 1140 is an undergravel. are under gravel no good? about how much are 400 hob? i was lookin at the penguin because it was inexpencive and had a pretty good gph


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Other people on this site disagree with me, but my feeling is that undergravel filtration is a really old and antiquated system. Undergravel filters (UGFs) are hard to operate in planted tanks as well as the roots of the plants get tangled in the plates, etc. They make the gravel extremely dirty by using it as a mechanical filtration system. My general feeling is that people who favor UGFs are living in the 1970s or before.

As suggested before, twin Emperor 400s would work nicely for a 55 gallon. I actually have a 55 gallon in storage that I am planning on setting up soon. My intended filtration for that tank is the new Eheim Pro 3e 2078 canister paired with an Emperor 400.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Oh, yeah. You can get an Emperor 400 for $39.99 at Big Al's online.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

i looked in to the canister filters but they just seem a lil outa mu budget for now...the emperor 400s might be a good option i was also looking at a penguin hob with 350 gph but they were the same price as the emperors...but i think i will go with a pair of hobs...now its just a matter of how much i will let my self spent ... are sponge filters anygood?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

IMO, A great HOB filter is the Aquaclear series. Everyone on this site has their personal favorites, I love aquaclears. They're VERY quiet, and offer a ton of media options. The only thing is, don't go by the size recommendation on the box, always buy one size larger than it says.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks trashion. yeah iv noticed that is probably one the most often said tips ( getting a filter bigger than your tank) can you go over kill on filtration? i went to petsmart today it is the closest store that has fish supplies... and i saw they had some penguins rated up to a 70gal tank i belive they were bio wheels with a 350 gph...not sure... but i was thinking about getting 2 of those. but as for fish i think we are going to start making a list of fish that we want and then start eliminating ones that dont get along together or are too big...but i think we are diffinatly going with at least 2-3 blood parrots. do cichlids get along well with others? i really like convict cichlids and electric yellow cichlids. will these 3 get along in this size of a tank? or is it too much fish?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I wouldn't mix american cichlids (convicts & parrots) with african cichlids (Yellow Labs) in general or the specific. Both the convicts and parrots will stake out an area of the bottom and defend it, so each pair needs half the tank. The labs use the whole tank chasing each other and looking for food. They won't respect the American's territorial signals and someone will end up shredded. I don't know who would win. I would expect the Americans to look stressed and cowed by all the chasing, until they they turn around and kill the Africans. The shouldn't be kept together once they grow up (most any fry go together, that's why there isn't havoc in the pet store tank) I think you can keep convicts and parrots together for a few years even after they pair up. But they may get more aggressive with age and you might need separate tanks. Ask a New World cichlid guru.

As for filters, for either a nicely overstocked African cichlid tank or a large deep-bodied, messy-eater American cichlid tank, you really should have about twice the manufacturers recommend filtration. You can't overdo filtration, but you can overdo flow. If the powerhead on an undergravel is too strong, it will suck in the food before the fish can eat it, so you will feed more and the tank will get dirtier instead of cleaner. Nothing says you can't do both an UG and a HOB. 

My take on sponge vs. UG vs. HOB. Both sponges and UG are cheap, effective *biological filtration*. Once cycled they turn your ammonia to nitrate in no time flat and the biology will live for some time even if the filter is off (unlike a canister that goes anaerobic and sulfur smelling) and you can use them (gravel, piece of sponge) to easily seed new filters . But they do *not *remove waste from the tank. You need to wring out sponges and gravel-wash the gravel. Sponges are ugly and visible compared to UG, but IMO less work for the fishkeeper. Both sponges and UGs can be "powered up" with powerheads or run off airlines. If a sponge or UG is your only filter, you need to be extra diligent and regular bout tank cleaning because you need to remove the solid waste. HOBs are supposed to be both *biological and mechanical* (catch the pieces). Where they fall in the spectrum depends on the media. You still need to rinse the cartridges, or squeeze the sponge, but you could theoretically take the filter to the sink, which could make it easier to mechanically remove the solid waste from the tank. *Mechanicall*y removing uneaten food and fish poop is important because it continues to decay and end up as more nitrates. Its less important if you use nitrates to grow plants or you do frequent, large water changes.

My personal preference is to have two different filters on each tank. I don't like to use 2 alike, because if a filter is going to clog, fail, or not restart after a power flicker, twin filters are more likely to do so simultaneously. I usually have a UG and a HOB, 2 different HOBs, or a sponge and a HOB. 

I disagree with COM in that I think UG filters still have a place. But I don't think I'd recommend them for your parrots. 1)Parrots make a lot of waste, so you'd be constantly gravel-washing 2) those fish will move all the gravel off half the plate, ruining the flow. 3) tanks with UGs tend to higher nitrates which American fish (or perhaps just fish in lower pH water) are more sensitive to (read about hole-in-the-head). You could do it with a UG only, but it would be a lot of work.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

My recommendation for you. 

If you can afford it, get a big HOB and a big (even pond-size), hydro-sponge with a power-head or two large HOBs. If you need to do it on the cheap, get two or 3 big sponges and a strong air-pump. Frequently change water by siphoning out visible waste. When you do a water change, take the sponge out, dip it into the waste water and squeeze it out over the sink (or another bucket), repeat until the water you squeeze out of the sponge is clear. Give the fish just enough gravel or sand to play with, but not a thick layer.


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## justin908090 (Sep 14, 2008)

Warning: Ciclids when they are small look so cute but most of the time when it grows up the coloration either changes or fades. That is where I lost my interest in aquariums at one time. Now, I'm hooked again in but now i take care of tetras.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks emc7 that helped alot. i am kind of leaning towards a large hob and sponge filter. after doing a little more reasearch...i think that i want to go with african cichlids...specificaly from Lake Malawi... on a site im going by it says you need crushed coral sand...will the fish be fine with rocks? and have got 4 types in mind... electric yellow, electric blue (blue dolphin?), bumble bee, and blue zebra. i still have to read more about these fish and the habitat they will be most comfortable in...will these be fine together in the long run? 

btw this is the site i looked at http://www.cichlids.com/articles/setting-up-a-lake-malawi-aquarium.html


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Rocks are fine, crushed coral or dolomite will raise the hardness and pH, but you don't need it if you tap water is hard to start with. If you do need it, a bag in the filter or a sprinkle on top of rocks if fine. The electric yellow lab L. caeruleus is a great fish, mild, bright and affordable. Electric blue refers to several fish. M. Johanni is mean, bright black and blue fish with horizontal bars. S. fryeri is big deep-bodied fish with blue males, keep only one male in 55 and don't mix with other "haplochromines" or peac0cks (aulonocara) if females are present. The blue dolphin aka "hap" moori is a gorgeous hump-headed blue fish that will eventually, IMO, outgrow a 55. The bumble bee or chameleo is moderately aggressive. Blue zebras are gorgeous, big and meanish. 

Look at this site http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=2
Malawi fish come in 3 type. Peac0cks, "haps" and Mbuna. Mbuna like rocks, the others use open water but don't mind large caves, such as inverted strawberry pots.

I think there are two good ways to do a Malawi tank. If you don't want babies, get a bachelor tank. One male each of anything you want that doesn't get too big.

The other was is one to three species in a harem or large group. Because Malawi cichlids crossbreed easily, if you want babies, you need to limit the number of different fish in the tank. For a 55, no more than three kinds. One hap or peac0ck and one or two Mbuna that look different (esp. color) and are in a different genus from each other. Rusties (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=707) and labs are a common combination. 

You can also split the difference. Have one species of Hap or Peac0ck with males and females and some bachelor Mbuna. Or a breeding group of yellow labs with bachelor peac0cks. Aulonocara are called peac0cks because only the males are pretty, the female are plain, brown and almost impossible to tell apart.

Of the Mbuna, if you pick a small species like Labs you can have a large group. If you get bigger ones, like zebras, you can only have one adult male. If you buy fry, you will have to remove males as the dominant male notices them and beats them up. Since everyone who breeds them in small tanks (<100) does this, it makes males for bachelor tanks readily availible. 

Malawi fish often have a different color for fry, females, and adult males. They will change, but they won't fade like the American Red devils and parrots. You can have more fish in a tank than with American. And you can use UG filters, but I still think sponges are less trouble. 

Even if you do all Mbuna, you don't need to spend that much on rocks or sand. River rock where I live is $10/5 gallon bucket and plain gravel or even bare-bottom tanks are fine. It is fun to watch them move the substrate around by the mouthful. Do buy good quality filters and maintain them well (don't let them get clogged with fiber from food).

Malawi cichlids do get bigger and meaner over the years, but IMO, its not the exponential increase the American do. A mild fish stays mild. But a bigger fish wants a bigger territory and any of the larger, meaner, Malawi fish could get to the point of keeping everyone else in the corner. If this happens, find someone with a big, bachelor, display tank (very common is businesses) and find him a new home. 

Check out these lists. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks again emc7! that wesite really helped. i think we have it down to 2 types of cichlids the Pseudotropheus saulosi http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1 and the Labidochromis caeruleus which is the electric yellow i think http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=713 to make a smaller less agressive tank. are there any other fish that go well with cichlids? i know my girlfriend likes tiger barbs... would a small school of those be able to live in a tank with cichlids? also would it be a good idea to get an algea eater? im asking these questions several weeks in advance so i have a list of fish i am going to get and hopfully wont have any questions when im getting the fish. i think that i might go with a penguin 350 bio wheel and a penguin sponge filter that gets 170 gph...will that be enough to keep the tank in good shape or should i go a lil bit better? after taking measure ments the tank can only hold about 50 gal of water so with that gph it should turn over at least 10 times per hr in theory...i may end up going with the emperor 400 (still keeping options open)


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Curt- one thing to check into is the Labidochromis caeruleus and discoloration. emc7, do you know anything about this? When looking into this species a few months back, I read that if placed in a tank with dark substrates, they will discolor to a brownish color, not pleasing to the eye.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up COM. ill look into it more tonight when i have more time but i did find this http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=3...i still want to go with theese fish though...after several years hopfully the fish's personality will grow on me enough to not care about the color


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## sarahbellum (Feb 28, 2008)

I thought your school of barbs were going into the 55 gallon?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

My caeruleus are bright yellow and black, always. The are some lousy strains, possibly hybridized out there. This fish has been in the hobby a long time and is being bred in ponds. P. Saulosi are a great fish also, but somewhat hard to find. both have yellow babies.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

sarahbellum said:


> I thought your school of barbs were going into the 55 gallon?


i was wondering if the barbs could go in this tank. but after reading alil bit...tiger barbs perfer soft water where as cichlids tend to like hard water


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## sarahbellum (Feb 28, 2008)

No I know that. I thought your school of barbs were going in here before you ever decided on cichlids. I.E. instead of the cichlids.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

sarahbellum said:


> No I know that. I thought your school of barbs were going in here before you ever decided on cichlids. I.E. instead of the cichlids.


ohhhh no i dont have a school of tigers sorry i mis understood...i have one tiger...after a horrible dicision for my first tank....long story short...i didnt do research and the petsmart people didnt know any better...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> i think that i might go with a penguin 350 bio wheel and a penguin sponge filter that gets 170 gph


 Adequate, but bigger is better. emperors are better than penguins.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

emc7 said:


> Adequate, but bigger is better. emperors are better than penguins.


yeah i have to see what my budget is like...right now i can get the penguin for 35 or the emperor for 50 sooo 15 bucks isnt really that significant...ill just have to see what i can afford or jsut wait untill i can get the emperor...i want to get the filters next week (after payday)


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Big Al's Online (www.bigalsonline.com) regularly sells the Emperor 400 for $39.99. That's 20 percent off of the normal pet-shop price.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks com. is that a reliable site? how long does it usaly take to ship?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I've ordered from them. They are reputable. Just check the shipping & handling. Sometimes its not worth it unless you are buying a lot of stuff.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Also some petsmarts will match their online price of $42.99


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks emc7 i will check in to that at the petsmart. that will save alot of time and hassle and what not.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Big Al's is very reputable. They are a chain of amazing fish stores in Canada. They have recently opened one US store outside Orlando, Florida. In the US, they ship from Niagara Falls, NY. For me, that's 25 miles away. If I order early in the morning, I can usually have my stuff the same day. If I order after, oh, 11ish, it comes the following day. Standard UPS shipping, not fancy stuff.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

coolio if petsmart wont change the price ill deffinatly try them next


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Just to be clear about the petsmart thing: They will match their own online price, not the online price of Big Als. Or at least that is my experience. PetCo won't even do that, which is just stupid IMHO. 

I have ordered a lot of things from Big Als. Excellent experience for me and I got a Rena XP3 for 89 bucks. At petsmart that sells for 180. Cha Ching! All of the things I purchased were considerably cheaper than in store.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks for the heads up obs...ill probabaly still give it a shot...wont hurt...the pet co here said they would match any price of a retail store...not online stores...so maby petsmart will give me a break...if not no big issue ill just order from big als...seems like a reliable site


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

ok so this is what i got when i went to petco and petsmart...i went to petco first and they said that they would match prices to retail store not online...and petsmart said they would only match their own online prices...sooooo obsidian was right about petsmart...but i went home and orderd the emporer 400 and the penguin sponge with 170 gph and a 20 gal filter for my 10 gal tank for less than the emporer cost at petsmart  soooo good stuff...hopfully ill have rocks and what not all set up befor the filters get here...


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Hey Curt, by chance, what part of the country do you live in?

I'm curious because I've noticed that locally Petco is the highest priced player in town, higher than even small specialty pet shops, and the PetSmart is the low-price leader, although not as competitive as online.

Just wondering if that is their strategy nationwide or if they vary regionally or locally. I'm not really sure.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

I live in Arizonia...so im not sure if petco is doing it nation wide or not...but what ive noticed that pet co usaly has less expencive animals but more expencive products (in general) and petsmart is the oppsite....but where i live there are only a few small specialty shops and they are more than both petco and petsmart....


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

ok soo its wednesday afternoon right now...filters are supost to come in on friday is it ok to fill the tank with water to let stuff settle and what not?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't see why not.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

my mom use to tell me water goes "stale" ever heard of that?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I've never seen a fish hurt by "stale" water. I guess you could get mosquitoes laying eggs in it (best reason to avoid standing water outside). You can put an air stone in to circulate the water and the extra lead time will give you time to adjust the heater.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I would do as emc suggests. Fill the tank, run some air if you can.

If nothing else, I believe that any trace chlorine will evaporate. And the 'new tank bubbles' will begin to dissipate.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Water in pipes has very little oxygen, giving it a few days contact with the air is prob. a good thing.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks! we do have an airston running. another question with aquarium salt....not really relevent buttt ive noticed that pet co puts it in little plastic cup things instead of all over the tank....is this better than just putting it in the tank?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Aquarium Salt = Kosher Salt for more money.

I dissolve it in some water and pour it into the tank. I don't keep a little cup of it like Petco does. I'm not sure why they do that.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you can afford it, "cichlid salts" are better than aquarium salts. There isn't alot of Sodium in Lake Malawi. If your tap water is hard, though, you prob. don't need either.


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## curtman602003 (Sep 1, 2008)

yeahhh ill look for cichlid salts... whats funny about petco is i actuly asked several of the people that worked there and none of them could tell me why......soooooo that was a real confidence booster for buying from them


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