# Help! can't stay cool!



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

I was wondering if anyone knows of a few ways that I could cool down my tanks now that it is summer. We don't have an a/c and cannot come close to affording one. I currently have 2 tanks: one gal. -betta(bloo) and 10 gal.- goldfish (scooby) w/plants. They both seem a little sluggish during the day, the temp has spiked at 80 degrees! All I could do was shut the lights off (which I do on the 1 gal. anyway) and pulled up the lids ( hoping to get more air on the surface. But I worry about the plants, they need some light. Neither one of them get direct sunlight, but would the light in the room be okay for the plants, I just got them a week and a half ago. One is low light and one moderate. (moneywort and red somethingorother) My question is how do I keep cool in the summer and still have enough light for my plants without a/c? I think I read something about this awhile back, but I can't find it.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

A lot of folks who encounter this problem have kept the lid open and run a fan across the top. This will increase the evaporation rate of your water, but that's what cools it down.

Sorry I can't help you on the plants, but I don't know much about them. But if you just have the lid open on the tank, it should allow you to keep the lights on as well.


----------



## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

80 is a good temp for a betta actually..


----------



## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

I do the fan thing and keep my lid open. Some folks drop bags of ice cubes in their tanks (I've paid attention because my tanks are getting pretty warm!). I also add a gallon of cold water to the tanks here and there......

There's some cooler apparatus that some people have talked about too, but they say that mother is spendy.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

Like Christine said 80F is a good temp for bettas but it isn't for the goldfish, as long as you have a thermometer in that tank I'd take a ziplock bag and put a few cubes of ice in it then seal the bag up and float the bag in the tank and then check the temp every few minutes and once it gets down into the low 70's, 72F or lower then remove the ice and just have a fan blowing on the tank after you remove the ice to keep the temp down.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't think that the temp will be much of a problem. Keep in mind however to keep up with water changes. Warmer water makes Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate even more of an issue. 
Remember to do a 25% change at least once a week. Remember to get the water in close to the temp of the water in the tank. Use dechlorinator.
A sudden 5 degree drop may be a huge issue.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

Durbkat said:


> Like Christine said 80F is a good temp for bettas but it isn't for the goldfish, as long as you have a thermometer in that tank I'd take a ziplock bag and put a few cubes of ice in it then seal the bag up and float the bag in the tank and then check the temp every few minutes and once it gets down into the low 70's, 72F or lower then remove the ice and just have a fan blowing on the tank after you remove the ice to keep the temp down.



*This is not a good idea! Water near the ice might be 50 degrees or less. This will certainly stress and kill your fish!*


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

Geesh, no need for the huge red letters. That is what I've heard to do and I've read it in a magazine that you could do it, besides I thought goldfish like coldwater anyway.


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

It is perfectly fine to put ice in the tank if need be in bags or even cool packs, it's just like water by the heater is warmer then any other place in the tank, water from heater is rather warm! 

No Worries.


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Should note i've only had to use ice once, our AC blew out when we were away came back tank was 89 degree's, used ice packs floating in the tank to cool it down


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

Durbkat said:


> Geesh, no need for the huge red letters. That is what I've heard to do and I've read it in a magazine that you could do it, besides I thought goldfish like coldwater anyway.



1. No fish is going to "like" the shock of dropping 8-10 degrees suddenly. Certainly will kill most.

2. Please quote this magazine so that I can tear them a new one!

3. I use* big red letters* when someone says *something stupid enough to put the life of someone's pet in grave danger!*

I'm sorry son, you are no expert by any stretch of the imagination... Don't be thin skinned about it and get defensive. Read and learn. Books would be a great place to start. Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation on the web... some intended as mayhem, some out of not knowing better. I don't know which case is yours, but seriously, I'm not trying to be hurtful or drive you away, but you can't say ridiculous things and not get called out on them. I hope at some point you have something valuable to contribute.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

MalawianPro said:


> It is perfectly fine to put ice in the tank if need be in bags or even cool packs, it's just like water by the heater is warmer then any other place in the tank, water from heater is rather warm!
> 
> No Worries.



The water near my heater is not significantly warmer than an area 20" away. No heater I have gets that hot. Perhaps that's the case of a very high wattage heater in a small tank, i.e. a 200 watt in a 20, but I don't believe this is typical. The original poster has a 1 gallon and a 10 gallon. I could see the 1 gallon really being effected by a couple of ice cubes in a baggy, due to the tiny water volume.


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Couple of ice cubes won't change the water temperature drastically in a 1g container it's 1g of water, it takes much more cold water to cool hot water then hot water to warm cold water.

2-3ice cubes in bag to cool the 1g to where it needs to be is no harm done.


----------



## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Your plants will need light to survive. Your lights in your room wont suffice because ..well....they dont contain any UV rays that the sun contains that plants need to conduct photosynthesis. Your gonna have to keep the lights on some time during the day if you dont want your plants to die. Try raising the lights off the surface of the water a little to allow more air to pass through the lights and water so the water doesnt get so hot


----------



## northfacehiker (May 31, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> 3. I use* big red letters* when someone says *something stupid enough to put the life of someone's pet in grave danger!*


And you also make yourself look like a fool. You are not an expert. Even the moderator of this section of the forums disagrees with you. If you don't think the water near your heater is warmer than the rest of the water in your tank, you need to think again. It will be at minimum a few degrees warmer until the temperature levels out through the tank. As for cooler temperatures, they sink. As the water cools, it will naturally flow to the bottom of the tank. This means warmer water will rise and take the place of the cooler water that has settled.

I do not consider myself to be an expert, but I can offer additional information to back up my suggestions. You've done nothing but yell and toss around trivial nothingness. Please respect others in the forum, even if their opinions differ from yours. Lastly, the owner of a thread should read all replies and make an informed decision based upon all given data and opinions. You yelling doesn't make you more important. It accomplishes one thing: discrediting your comments.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> 1. No fish is going to "like" the shock of dropping 8-10 degrees suddenly. Certainly will kill most.
> 
> 2. Please quote this magazine so that I can tear them a new one!
> 
> ...


Who do you think you are? I don't have to take this from some big mouth know it all when I made a simple error, a mod just said it was fine and you come and open your rude mouth. You need to keep your mouth shut because its not that big of a deal.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

MalawianPro said:


> Couple of ice cubes won't change the water temperature drastically in a 1g container it's 1g of water, it takes much more cold water to cool hot water then hot water to warm cold water.
> 
> 2-3ice cubes in bag to cool the 1g to where it needs to be is no harm done.



It takes *exactly* the same amount to cool or heat. If you had 1 gallon of water that was 70 degrees and added a gallon of 75 degree water, I'd be willing to be any amount of money that it will be 72.5 degrees when combined, or even your moderator status, against my permanent banishment from this forum.
On the other hand if you add a gallon of 65 degree water to that same 70 degree gallon, the temperature will be exactly 67.5 degrees. Being the son of a high school physics teacher, I know this with much certainty.
I stand by the belief the ice will do more harm than the 80 degree water to either fish.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

Durbkat said:


> Who do you think you are? I don't have to take this from some big mouth know it all when I made a simple error, a mod just said it was fine and you come and open your rude mouth. You need to keep your mouth shut because its not that big of a deal.


Good luck with *YOUR* fish...


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

No good luck with *your* fish as I turn my a/c on when it gets hot and turn my heat on when it gets cold so I don't need to put ice in my tank. Also I don't get goldfish simply because you can only have like 4 of them for a 55g and I want more fish than that in a tank as it makes the tank look empty.


----------



## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> It takes *exactly* the same amount to cool or heat. If you had 1 gallon of water that was 70 degrees and added half a gallon of 75 degree water, I'd be willing to be any amount of money that it will be 72.5 degrees when combined, or even your moderator status, against my permanent banishment from this forum.
> On the other hand if you add half a gallon of 65 degree water to that same 70 degree gallon, the temperature will be exactly 67.5 degrees. Being the son of a high school physics teacher, I know this with much certainty.
> I stand by the belief the ice will do more harm than the 80 degree water to either fish.


EVERYBODY CALLLLLMMMMMMMM DOWN
( this is when i use my big red letters :lol

Really everyone needs to put their ego aside


Let the threadstarter use his judgement and gain some experience. Suggestions were provided now its his turn to do his part......to learnn


Also one shouldnt argue with a moderator. Im sure he didnt get to a become moderator because he looks pretty.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

northfacehiker said:


> And you also make yourself look like a fool. You are not an expert. Even the moderator of this section of the forums disagrees with you. If you don't think the water near your heater is warmer than the rest of the water in your tank, you need to think again. It will be at minimum a few degrees warmer until the temperature levels out through the tank.


My temperatures remain within 1 degree throughout the tank, because I have a proper amount of circulation from the filter... I've had that since about 30 minutes after filling my tank. Being moderator, with all due respect, certainly doesn't qualify anyone as an expert. Durbkat is the moderator of his own forum... so anyone can be a moderator.



northfacehiker said:


> I do not consider myself to be an expert, but I can offer additional information to back up my suggestions.


Please do, you have not impressed me yet.




northfacehiker said:


> Lastly, the owner of a thread should read all replies and make an informed decision based upon all given data and opinions. You yelling doesn't make you more important. It accomplishes one thing: discrediting your comments.


The original poster might consider the source, myself included, and look elsewhere. There's too much misinformation here.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> Being moderator, with all due respect, certainly doesn't qualify anyone as an expert. Durbkat is the moderator of his own forum... so anyone can be a moderator.


Excuse me, I'm an admin not a mod, your just jealous because your not a mod or admin.:lol:


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> My temperatures remain within 1 degree throughout the tank, because I have a proper amount of circulation from the filter... I've had that since about 30 minutes after filling my tank. Being moderator, with all due respect, certainly doesn't qualify anyone as an expert. Durbkat is the moderator of his own forum... so anyone can be a moderator.
> 
> Please do, you have not impressed me yet.
> 
> The original poster might consider the source, myself included, and look elsewhere. There's too much misinformation here.


With all due respect can you take your pissing match to privet messages so we can focus on the problems at hand?


----------



## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

You guys are freakin 2 year olds


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm calm now, I won't say anything else to agiatate the arguement.


----------



## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

Adding a few ice cubes to a one gallon tank, or even a ten gallon tank, will drop the temperature down a few degrees, BUT it will not do this instantly, it will take time. Almost everyone here has such an inflated ego that they have argued about who is right or wrong and ignored the problem at hand. If any one has noticed, the starter of this thread has not replied to any of the suggestions because of how hostile everyone has become. 

Because every one seems to have forgotten about the starter of this thread I will say this: 80 degrees should be fine for the Betta. But the Goldie's like a cooler temp. So i would suggest that you float 4-5 ice cubes in a zip lock bag and watch the temp closely to make sure that the temp does not drop too fast. 

Any one can make comments on my suggestions and try to improve them, but please, try to keep everything civil so that we don't forget the whole point of this thread.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2006)

That's exactly what I said before book started trolling and flaming.


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Exactly it takes time for the change not like a instant change, unless you plan on adding liquid nitrogen to the tank.


----------



## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

haha, yea, you could make your self some fish-icle's


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2006)

You could do small water changes often, with cooler water (not cold). Putting ice cubes in is ok. I've also heard that it isn't good though because it cause spots in the tank that are a different temp, as mentioned above.

I think that if you put a few cubes in, it should be ok. I'd watch the temp and make sure it doesn't drop too drastically, too fast. Watch the fish and make sure they are alright. It should be fine though. I would never add very cold water though. The temperature shock could kill your fish.

I'd add an airpump to the goldfish tank, to increase oxygenation in the water. Fish will be sluggish the higher the temp. 80F is fine for the betta, but the goldfish probably doesn't like it. 

I would leave the lights on for only a few hours a day. Leave the hoods off the rest of the day. You can also get a fan and aim it at the top of the water. That helps cool things off.

I'd try the fan and leaving the top off before going for the ice. I think its safer. The ice shouldn't kill them, but I'm sure they don't like the weird temp distributions in the tank.

This isn't relevant to your question, but a goldfish needs atleast a 30g tank. They will outgrow a 10g, so I'd upgrade soon!


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2006)

> With all due respect can you take your pissing match to privet messages so we can focus on the problems at hand?





> You guys are freakin 2 year olds


:lol: Ding ding ding! Tell 'em what they've won, Chad!


----------



## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

If possible, i would still try to turn the A/C on if you are trying to cool the water down since you mentioned "without A/C''. The reason being that if your ambient room temp is 80 degrees, the water isn't likely going to cool down much if any at all past that.


----------



## fantasticaqua (Jun 1, 2006)

How about spending a couple of bucks and getting a chiller. Then no one has to get all heated up over ice cubes.


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2006)

I am all for putting the ice debate to rest, but I think if air conditioning for the people is too expensive, a chiller may be a bit spendy.


----------



## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

It seems the summer heat has gotten to a couple of you here. 
Time to take a deep breath and drink a nice glass of ice tea.

Now on to the question.


Aquariums overheating is a very common thing that happens in the summer and I see your question asked several times a year on different forums. So dont worry you are not alone. This is my cut and paste response everytime I see this asked

There are several ways to cool a aquarium. Some very expensive others very simple. But the labor is tied to the cost. The more expensive the less maintance, the cheaper needing a constant eye.

The *first* is air condition your house - (you didn't want to hear that) There is the expense of installiation then the expense of electricity. 

*Second* is buy a aquarium chiller - Chillers are often needed to keep the water temperature within a range optimal for your tank inhabitants. These can run $400 on up. (Not so cheap either)

Chillers are available in two forms: drop-in and in-line. Drop-in chillers have cooling coils that you simply place in the sump to cool the water. No plumbing is required. In-line chillers have internal cooling coils. Water is pumped into the chiller, cooled, and then returned back to the tank or sump. The chief advantage of an in-line chiller is that it can be placed remotely from the tank (such as a basement, a different room or a garage).

Temperature controllers are necessary to operate the chiller. A single stage controller will control just the chiller, while a dual stage controller can control both a chiller and a heater to minimize variance and eliminate conflicts.

*Third* You can do small frequent water changes with cooler water - This is good for the temp but hard on the biological filtration. 

*Fourth* You can place ice cubes in a ziplock bag and let it float in the tank. As the ice melts it will cool the water in the tank but not to quickly for the fish.

The *Fifth* and final way that I am aware of is to take the lid off the aquarium and blow a fan across the top. I know this sounds dumb like how can a fan cool water, BUT the fan causes evaporation and evaporation is what creates the cooling of the water. 

You might want to try a combination of the last 3 ways to create a slow cooling process that wont shock the fish.

Keep in mind you want to cool your tank slowly. Rapid changes in temps are not good for your fish. Dont be afraid to turn off any lights on the tank. The light only creates more heat and if you dont have live plants you should not have any problems having a dark tank for a few days. 

Actually there is one other way. But that is only if you have a basement. (I think you know where I am going with this) If you move the tank to the basement it will cool naturally since basements usually are cooler than upper floors. 

I hope this gives you a few things to try. Sorry for it being so long but I wanted to give you all the possibilities I could think of.

I hope this has given everyone time to cool off.


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

Would running a fan be about as effective as say running a bubble wall? Both circulate the water. And I have noticed increased evaporation since I installed my bubble wall.


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2006)

I wonder why the thread starter STILL hasn't replied?


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2006)

I'm lucky that my tanks are on the ground floor, in the finished part of the basement. I don't have any temperature problems.

When I first got my 10g, it was on the main floor and the temp would get up to 83-85F. I'd keep the lights off and the hood off and that helped some. 80F isn't bad, so as long as I could keep it around there, I was doing good. I also did small frequent cooler water changes.


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

Durbkat said:


> I wonder why the thread starter STILL hasn't replied?


They may never come back thanks to Book em


----------



## Guest (Jun 28, 2006)

Hm, do you think it would be a wise idea adding a HEATER...? Couldn't she just heat it to about 66 degrees or something for the goldfish? Leave the betta without a heater, everything would be okay?


----------



## Guest (Jun 28, 2006)

Well a heater will not lower the temperature if its a 80F and the heater is set to 66F.


----------



## Guest (Jun 28, 2006)

The tank is too hot....because of the weather. No air conditioning means the house is probably around 75-80F or more...and so is the tank. A heater won't turn on because the water is already around 80 or so degrees.

Heaters don't lower the temp any.


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

WOW! My internet has been acting funny wouldn't let me on. I really didn't expect to cause so much conflict! I am sorry about that. Whoever said that, ultimately the descision is mine was totally right, its advice. I believe there isn't one method of doing anything and am willing to bet that taking care of pets caters to the individual (both human and pet) Thank You to all of you that had positive things to say (Fish Doc- You Rock!) Some of you had questions about my tanks and this has gotten so long, I can't really remember them all or read them all again, but I have other posts in beginner, betta and goldfish.
Stay cool out there
Its hot!


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

*Update*

:rip: I am sorry to say that after all I tried to do to help, scooby couldn't take any more. Thanks to all who tried to help,even you grumpy ones were entertaining:angels: Anyway, I decided that we should pick our fish based on the ability to heat in winter, but not cool down in summer. Not consistently anyway. My son was actually more understanding than I expected! He still wants a goldfish, but understands he must wait until we have a/c or move to a house with cooler choices. After researching fish that like warmer temps. we decided on the dwarf puffer. We had seen them when we bought scooby. And we went and bought 2 of them. I know...I'll need a bigger tank for them eventually, what else is new I do have a question though, do they actually "puff" up like the one on finding Nemo? My 4 year old would like to know. I am really enjoying them. They are very curious and remind me of people in an art museum. Going from exhibit to exhibit analyzing each detail. Very cute. Anyway, sometimes a tragedy leads to something pleasantly suprizing:mrgreen:


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

greenween said:


> :rip: I am sorry to say that after all I tried to do to help, scooby couldn't take any more. Thanks to all who tried to help,even you grumpy ones were entertaining:angels: Anyway, I decided that we should pick our fish based on the ability to heat in winter, but not cool down in summer. Not consistently anyway. My son was actually more understanding than I expected! He still wants a goldfish, but understands he must wait until we have a/c or move to a house with cooler choices. After researching fish that like warmer temps. we decided on the dwarf puffer. We had seen them when we bought scooby. And we went and bought 2 of them. I know...I'll need a bigger tank for them eventually, what else is new I do have a question though, do they actually "puff" up like the one on finding Nemo? My 4 year old would like to know. I am really enjoying them. They are very curious and remind me of people in an art museum. Going from exhibit to exhibit analyzing each detail. Very cute. Anyway, sometimes a tragedy leads to something pleasantly suprizing:mrgreen:



Puffer is not a good beginner's fish... I'd seriously consider some non Marine/Brackish fishes right now.


----------



## Fishboy93 (Jun 11, 2005)

book_em_danio said:


> Puffer is not a good beginner's fish... I'd seriously consider some non Marine/Brackish fishes right now.


Dwarf Puffers arent brackish fish.....strictly fresh. Not trying to start a fight here...


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> Puffer is not a good beginner's fish... I'd seriously consider some non Marine/Brackish fishes right now.


Next time you could at least answer his questions.... please stop forcing your views on other members. This board has a low tolerance for know it alls.

I pulled this off of 10 things to know about puffers

*The Ninth Thing*
Dwarf puffers puff. It seems obvious, but there is a rule for all puffers: never let them puff air. If a dwarf puffer inflates itself with air, then its outlook is bleak. Because of the pressure of the water around it, the valves in the puffers' inflation system are usually sealed shut, so once it is full of air, it is usually doomed. When moving dwarf puffers, use a net to catch them and hold them under water, and then use a drinking glass or mug to catch it. Make sure it is under water at all times. Make sure to have a heavy book handy. Even though inhaling air is deadly to them, they silly things love to jump out of tight spaces.

*The Tenth Thing*
Dwarf puffers are, without doubt, among the most feature rich in personality traits of all fish. As such, they are often found zooming around the front of the tank whenever their owner is near. They will come to recognize you as their owner, and will learn when they are about to be fed. Do not be surprised to find your dwarf puffer puffing itself up in protest to not being fed! If this ever happens, the best thing to do is to feed them a little and quickly, so they will deflate themselves and do themselves no harm or stress


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

Fishboy93 said:


> Dwarf Puffers arent brackish fish.....strictly fresh. Not trying to start a fight here...


I am terrible... so here it goes, here's a few brackish puffers...

Colomesus psittacus

Tetraodon biocellatus

Tetraodon erythrotaenia

Tetraodon fluviatilis

Tetraodon nigroviridis

Shall I go on with more? How about marine? Not trying to start a fight, but I can back up *ANYTHING* I say. Can you? Obviously not anything about puffers...


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> I am terrible... so here it goes, here's a few brackish puffers...
> 
> Colomesus psittacus
> 
> ...



Taken from the Dwarf Puffer Web site

This subject is one of great confusion! If you search for the scientific names of Dwarf Puffers, you will come up with names like: Tetraodon travancoricus, Monotreta travancoricus and Carinotetraodon imitator.

I eventually learned that there are only two species (or variants): Carinotetraodon travancoricus and Carinotetraodon imitator. This information was provided to me at the Pufferfish Yahoo Group in two particular posts:

*LinearChaos* writes - _"Ebert's book has all three of the dwarf puffers under Carinotetraodon...Carinotetraodon travancoricus (for the usually seen dwarf and the blue green) and Carinotetraodon imitator.

I've never heard of the others and I would stick with Carinotetraodon as a constant for the dwarf._"

*RTR* writes - "_To my understanding, the dwarf puffers (both species or both variants, whichever they turn out to be) should be called Carinotetraodon, as they have the keel/crest which is a determining characteristic for Carinotetraodon versus Tetraodon. Most taxonomists consider Monotreta a junior synonym for Tetraodon._"

Below are photos of the male and female of each type. We are not quite sure if they are actually two different species:


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

book_em_danio said:


> I am terrible... so here it goes, here's a few brackish puffers...
> 
> Colomesus psittacus
> 
> ...



Here is a little more to learned you:

Taken from Dwarfpuffers.com

Water Parameters

Dwarf puffers are quite hardy and can tolerate a variety of water conditions. For them to be healthy and happy, though, you should try to give them the best conditions possible. Keep in mind that Dwarf Puffers are 100% freshwater fish! They can tolerate small increases in salinity but are at optimum health in pure freshwater.


*Temperature* - While they can tolerate a broad range of temperatures, dwarf puffers seem to do best with a temperature of at least 80F (26C).
*PH* - A PH of at least 7.0 is best.
*Nitrites and Ammonia* - As with any fish, you want to keep these down to 0 at all times.


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

Those looking to "one up" me better try harder...

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/puffers.htm

Freshwater and Brackish Pufferfish

Listed below are many of the species of puffers which normally inhabit fresh and brackish waters. There is some confusion regarding the naming of puffer species, especially with regard to the common names used! The scientific names listed below have been carefully cross-checked with the most up-to-date sources available. There is also some debate about whether some species are freshwater or brackish. The truth in many cases is that some species may occasionally wander into both types of water. Therefore, the information given below gives the water in which it is normally found, or in which it is said to do best in aquaria, according to the majority of reliable sources. Follow the links to more info on individual species.

Table doesn't copy and paste, but follow the link.

The Aquarium Encyclopedia
Edited by: Gunther Sterba, English Edition by **** Mills
Photography: A. Van Den Nieuwenhuizen
World Copyright 1978, This Edition 1986, Published by The MIT Press

Note: * denotes another entry in the encyclopedia. Abbreviations as follows:

D = dorsal fin


Coh = cohort

D1 = 1st dorsal fin


O = order

D2 = 2nd dorsal fin or adipose fin


Sub-O = Sub-order

C = caudal or tail fin


Ga = genera

An = Anal Fin


F = Family

V = ventral fin


G = genus

P = Pectoral fin



Tetraodon. LINNAEUS, 1758. G of the Tetraodontidae*
Contains species that live in the fresh waters and coastal areas of tropical Africa, SE Asia, Australia and the Philippines. Some live in pure fresh water (T. mbu, T. schoutedeni, T. miurus, etc.) whereas others also live in brackish water (e.g. T. cutcutia, T. fluviatilis, T. palembangensis). Tetraodon species are territorial fish, prone to biting. The eat small animals, using their strong dental plates to crush molluscs, crustaceans and insect larvae; T. mirius especially likes to prey on smaller fish.

The species of Tetraodon have a typical family build and they are between 8 and 75 cm long. Many have small soft spines in their leathery skin which they can erect by puffing themselves up. (T. fluviatilis, T. palembangensis, T. leiurus, etc.). An important recognition feature is the number and shape of the tentacles around the nose. Within the G, there are both substrate spawners (T. cutcutia, T. fluviatilis, T. leiurus brevirostris) and open water spawners like T. schoutedeni, in which 1-2 males bite firmly onto the ventral side of the female during the spawning act.

Pufferfishes are extremely charming and long lived members of an aquarium - they even get to know their keepers ‘personally’ sometimes. Some individual T. fluviatilis specimens have been known to live for 9 years in the aquarium. Apart from the pure freshwater species from Africa that require water that is not too hard and a bit peaty, most of the others are happiest in hard, slightly alkali water or even brackish water. A particular problem with this G is that many of the species are intolerant of one another, and some also of other species. They can give quite a painful nip, and despite their plumpish build they are quite agile.

They should be fed with all kinds of animal food, especially hard shelled food like snails, plus mealworms and earthworms; usually, feeding should present no problems. A lack of desire to eat. discolouration (the black colour noticeable on the ventral side), continual curving around of the tail and emaciation are typical disease symptoms. In a lot of cases, the specimens are cured by putting them into brackish water. In many specimens the teeth start to grow abnormally; they can be cut off carefully using a sharpened pair of fine nail clippers, or similar.

Some of the species have been bred successfully (T. cutcutia, T. leiurus brevirostris, T. fluviatilis, T. schoutedeni). The substrate spawners lay their eggs on rocks. There are about 200-300 eggs with T. cutcutia, 300-500 with T. leiurus brevirostris. As far as we know, only the males carry out brood care. With T. leiurus, care ends with the hatching of the fry, but with the other species mentioned, the males still guard the youngsters and keep them safely in shallow grooves. Infusorians, nauplii (Cyclops, Artemia), rotifers and microworms (Tubatrix*) etc. are suitable foods for rearing them on. The young fish are still tolerant of one another, unlike the older specimens that form territories. The young even form groups sometimes, e.g. T. leiurus brevirostris. The following species are imported fairly often:

-T. cutcutia (HAMILTON-BUCHANAN, 1822); Common Pufferfish, Globefish. From SE Asia, Malaysian Archipelago, where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 8 cm. No spines on the skin. Nasal tentacles undivided. Grey-yellow with fairly dark flecks and a fine honeycomb patterning.

-T. fluviatilis (HAMILTON-BUCHANAN, 1812); Green puffer, Figure Eight Puffer. From SE Asia, Malaysian Archipelago, the Philippines where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 17 cm. Short forked nasal tentacles. Yellow-green with very variable dark dots and bands. Mostly fairly peaceful. Leaves small fishes unmolested.

-T. leiurus brevirostris (BENL, 1957). From Thailand (?). Length to 12 cm. Snout short and truncated. Each nasal slit bears a tentacle That is divided at the end into 2 lips. Spiny skin. Grey-yellow with a dense covering of dark flecks. During the spawning act, the flecks are pale on a dark background. Prone to biting. A sub-species of T. leiurus leiurus BLEEKER, 1850.

-T. mbu BOULENGER, 1899; Gold-ringed puffer. From the Congo, only found in fresh water. Length to 75 cm. Fairly elongate. 2 nasal tentacles in each slit, divided like a fork. Head and body covered with fine spines. Dorsal surface and flanks covered in dark, worm-like lines on a yellow to orange background colour. When young, has large dots.

-T. mirius BOULENGER, 1902; Valise Puffer. From the Congo, only found in fresh water. Length to 15 cm. Eyes small, directed upwards. Has a striking capacity for changing colour, usually patterned in brownish/sandy colours. Buries itself into the sand up to its eyes. Very prone to biting. Eats small fish.

-T. palembangensis BLEEKER, 1852; Figure Eight Puffer. From Thailand, Sumatra, Kalimantan (Borneo), where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 20 cm. There is a nasal tentacle on both sides. Upper side of the body dark with yellow or green patterns of stripes that form a closed ring below the D. Survives better in brackish and sea water than it does in pure fresh water.

-T. schoutedeni PELLEGRIN, 1926; Leopard Puffer. From the lower Congo, only in fresh water. Female 10 cm, male smaller. Similar to T. fluviatilis. 2 long, forked nasal tentacles on both sides. Dark dots on an ochre-coloured background. One of the most peaceful of Pufferfishes!

Tetraodontidae; Pufferfishes Family of the Tetraodontiformes*, Sub-O Tetraodontoidei. Found in warm seas, in brackish water, and a very few in fresh water. Pufferfishes have an oblong shape and the caudal peduncle is elongated to a greater or lesser extent. Mouth small with ridges of teeth on the jaws which add up to form a kind of beak that always protrudes slightly; the beak consists of teeth that are fused. There is a suture between the right and left tooth ridge of the upper and lower jaw, which is where the name Tetraodontidae comes from (= four toothed).

Pufferfishes move by using their Ps like a propeller, sometimes also the short D and An. The rounded C is only used for steering, in conjunction with the caudal peduncle. No Vs. Skin naked or covered with triaxial spines which are laid down, pointing backwards, when at rest. The Tetraodontidae glide peacefully through the water and are very agile; they can also turn on the spot or swim backwards. All Pufferfishes have a special extension of the stomach which spreads to below the skin of the breast and belly areas; when danger threatens, it can be filled with water or air, and at the same time, the spines become erect. This makes the fish look bigger in the eyes of a potential attacker, and it can also blow the water it has taken in towards its enemy.

Pufferfishes often blow themselves up like this when they are trapped in a net. The flesh of many species contains the well-known tetraodotoxin- a strong nerve poison. Pufferfishes are very important in aquarium-keeping. See under the Ga Arothron*, Canthigaster*, Carinotetraodon*, Colomesus*, Tetraodon*. You will also find further details there about their biology.

Tetraodontiformes; Pufferfish-types. O of the Osteichthyes*, Coh Teleostei. Also known as the O Plectognathi, this O embraces a whole series of Fs, some of which at first sight seem to have no similarities. Nevertheless, they do form a relatively uniform group. This is difficult to prove from any external features and demands comparison studies of the skeleton, particularly of the skull. Here, a fusion of the premaxilla and maxilla is only hinted at, there are no parietal bones and the number of vertebrae is small.

From the outside, features to note are the very small, non-protrusible mouth and small, hole-shaped gill slits. The individual groups also have certain parallels in behaviour patterns. The jaws may carry individual teeth or beak-like teeth-ridges. Often, the Vs are missing and with them also the pelvic bones. The skin may be scaled or naked, or it may be covered with large spines or bony plates.

Nearly all Tetraodontiformes live in tropical and sub-tropical seas, with only a few species from fresh water areas. The Tetraodontiformes are related to the Acanthuroidei*, and the oldest fossils date from the early Tertiary period. GREENWOOD and colleagues (1966) distinguish between 2 Sub-Os, the Balistoidei containing the Fs Balistidae*, Ostraciontidae*, Triacanthidae* and the Tetraodontoidei containing the Fs Diodontidae*, Molidae*, Tetraodontidae* and Triodontidae*, See also the system under the heading Osteichthyes.

Carinotetraodon BENL, 1957. G of Tetraodontidae*. One well-known species in fresh water of South East Asia. The males of these Pufferfish (which in other respects have a typical shape of their family) erect during display a comb-like crest along their back and a sharp ventral keel like the marine species of the G Canthigaster*. They are territory-forming and therefore incompatible with members of their own species and also, to some extent, with other fish. The small fish are very suitable for keeping in aquaria. Breeding has been successful. Both parents care for the young.

-C. lorteti (TIRANT, 1885) (C. somphongsi, name not in current usage); Comb Pufferfish. Thailand, in fresh water. To 6.5 cm. Males greyish yellow with blue C; females more varied in colour, mainly plain yellowish with irregular dark spots.

Colomesus FOWLER, 1911. G of Tetraodontidae*. The habitat of Colomesus is tropical S. America, where they live in fresh water and brackish waters. They reach a size of up to 20 cm. Their shape is typical of their family. They are fairly timid fish in the aquarium and need plenty of oxygen. Nothing is known about their reproduction. The species imported most is:
-C. psittacus (SCHNEIDER, 1801); Parrot Pufferfish. West Indies, Amazon Basin. To 20 cm. Back olive-green with 6 black saddle markings. Stomach whitish.

Disease in Puffer fish is seldom this simple. Hopefully in the near future I will be able to provide some symptom charts and medicines that have had good results.
If this procedure is to be attempted, various safely measures should be taken. Wear thick rubber gloves that have never been used with soap or cleaning chemicals. They will protect your hands from the business end of the fish, and your skin from possible absorption of the tetraodotoxin should the fish become distressed enough to excrete it from the skin. Also, moving the fish in a separate container is recommended, this way you can place the container and fish at the most advantageous position. The container will also prevent any tetrodotoxin released from the puffer from being in the main tank. Not all species can release the poison from the skin apparently, but it is best to take precautions as it will also affect the puffer if concentrated in the tank water.. Larger species have been known to sever digits from unsuspecting sushi chefs.
There has been mention of some infusoria and paramecium that are bad for puffer fish fry. There can be aggressive organisms that can kill the fry. Suggestion has been made to acquire African paramecium, local breeders may be a good source for a starter culture.
The Figure Eight name has been erroneously connected with T. fluviatilis, I have seen this many times, and it would seem that somewhere along the line it was used with this species, and the error has been perpetuated. T. palembangensis, T. biocellatus, T. steindachneri are the species commonly associated with the Figure Eight name. T. palembangensis is actually a completely different species in form, having the appearance of the T. suvattii and T. miurus. The common species confused with T. fluviatilis are Tetraodon nigroviridis (or nigrifilis), and T. schoutedeni, as all are spotted on a green or yellow background. Variations between these are hotly debated, with perhaps T. schoutedeni being the easier to separately identify, and much debate over whether the other species names are the same animal or not.
There are species found in cold water seas, Eastern US seaboard and the English Channel are examples.
The Dwarf Puffer is recently available to aquarists: Tetraodon travancorius, AKA Carinotetraodon travancorius, and Carinotetraodon imitator. They are hard to tell apart, see link to Erwin Schramml’s page. These species also have the comb on the belly, and a corresponding stripe when in display mode. Originally classified as Monotretus travancorius, they have been reclassified once into the G Tetraodon, and now proposed into Carinotetraodon.
Colomesus asellus is perhaps more common of an import now. Commonly called a South American (SA) or Brazilian.

I can copy and paste data to prove my point too


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

Oh what the heck... here's some more...
http://www.pufferlist.com/brackindex.htm

To say puffers are *strictly* freshwater only invites proof contrary. It get's some folks all worked up when I post anything... This is why I must continue to post or perhaps they will get a life???


----------



## book_em_danio (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm on a roll...

http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2/interview_damien_wagaman.php


----------



## Fishboy93 (Jun 11, 2005)

i just wanted to make sure he didnt add salt and harm his new fish... I apologize if i seemed as though i was attempting to one up you our anything... im not one to fight.


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

Watch who you Are insulting. Read this tread carefully and you will realize greenween was speaking specifically of Dwarf Puffers. I have no doubt that other varieties of puffer fish are in existence. It looks like you did a great job of compiling all of them. Hats off to you. 

Now try and stay on topic


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

So, somehow I always manage to stir up controversy...unintentionally. I assure you they are dwarf puffers. They are the teeny tiny ones with the spots. I actually researched them before I went to the store. I really wanted to be sure that I'd be able to take care of them. Especially after losing 2 goldfish. Being freshwater it seems to me that the hardest thing about them is cutting a small enough chunk off of their frozen food! I tried to give some to our betta but because they sink he won't touch them. I thawed 1/2 a cube and was AMAZED at how much food that is. Otherwise, and funny enough, the temp. has stayed right at 80 since I got them. Just thought I'd let the concerned citizens know, I did my homework this time. There will hopefully be no more fishy casualties in my near future. Until the puffers (huff and puff) are bigger and need a bigger home, I think we'll stick with what we have. I have thought about planting our bettas tank. Is 1 gal. too small for a plant or two? It seems to help keep the water more stable and I think bloo may like them. Anyway, thank you all for your worries. Its nice to be supported, even if its sort of cantankerous!:mrgreen: oh yeah, greenween is a woman! :fish:


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

greenween said:


> So, somehow I always manage to stir up controversy...unintentionally. I assure you they are dwarf puffers. They are the teeny tiny ones with the spots. I actually researched them before I went to the store. I really wanted to be sure that I'd be able to take care of them. Especially after losing 2 goldfish. Being freshwater it seems to me that the hardest thing about them is cutting a small enough chunk off of their frozen food! I tried to give some to our betta but because they sink he won't touch them. I thawed 1/2 a cube and was AMAZED at how much food that is. Otherwise, and funny enough, the temp. has stayed right at 80 since I got them. Just thought I'd let the concerned citizens know, I did my homework this time. There will hopefully be no more fishy casualties in my near future. Until the puffers (huff and puff) are bigger and need a bigger home, I think we'll stick with what we have. I have thought about planting our bettas tank. Is 1 gal. too small for a plant or two? It seems to help keep the water more stable and I think bloo may like them. Anyway, thank you all for your worries. Its nice to be supported, even if its sort of cantankerous!:mrgreen: *oh yeah, greenween is a woman!* :fish:



LOL good to know!


----------



## bpswim90 (Oct 30, 2005)

if you want to cool your tank I suggest using ice. Just fill a small ziploc bag with ice and see if it cools your tank enough. If it doesn't, add more ice than before once it all melts. Keep in mind you'll have to replace the bag several times during the day if you really want to keep the water cool.

By the way, I have done this with both coldwater and tropical fish and have had no deaths nor any signs of stress.


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

bpswim90 said:


> if you want to cool your tank I suggest using ice. Just fill a small ziploc bag with ice and see if it cools your tank enough. If it doesn't, add more ice than before once it all melts. Keep in mind you'll have to replace the bag several times during the day if you really want to keep the water cool.
> 
> By the way, I have done this with both coldwater and tropical fish and have had no deaths nor any signs of stress.


What would you say the upper limit is for most tropical cichlids?


----------



## Guest (Jul 6, 2006)

Hi, greenwen! I'm a little too secure to type a post that's longer than most books to convince myself that I'm smarter than someone who disagrees with me, so I'll just wish you good luck with your new little critters.  I'm glad to hear you did your research before purchasing, and I'm sure that as you keep them, you will learn even more about these guys. Keep us posted on how they do. 

P.S. (better get started with a rebuttal to this, danio...the thread may be dried up by the time you're finished) When you get a bigger tank, I'd invest in some more dwarf puffers. From what I've read, they can be nippy and cranky with other fish, including one another. Having more will help spread out the nipping and, from what I've read, bring out their personality even more, whatever that means.


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

|V|][{|-|/\[-|_ said:


> Hi, greenwen! I'm a little too secure to type a post that's longer than most books to convince myself that I'm smarter than someone who disagrees with me, so I'll just wish you good luck with your new little critters.  I'm glad to hear you did your research before purchasing, and I'm sure that as you keep them, you will learn even more about these guys. Keep us posted on how they do.
> 
> P.S. (better get started with a rebuttal to this, danio...the thread may be dried up by the time you're finished) When you get a bigger tank, I'd invest in some more dwarf puffers. From what I've read, they can be nippy and cranky with other fish, including one another. Having more will help spread out the nipping and, from what I've read, bring out their personality even more, whatever that means.


LOL too funny. i have been reading a lot of good things about dwarf puffers. I’m thinking about getting some myself but do you think i could pare anything else with them or is it best to leave it as a species tank?


----------



## Guest (Jul 6, 2006)

I think one of the only fish I'd put with DPs is an otto, given the tank is bing enough. But even ottos can be hit or miss with them. Some DPs leave them alone and some don't. I'd just keep them in a species tank if it was me...to prevent any aggression towards other fish. Give them adequate space, preferably a planted tank to lower aggression. Planting the tank breaks up the sight lines of the DPs so they don't torment each other.


----------



## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> I think one of the only fish I'd put with DPs is an otto, given the tank is bing enough. But even ottos can be hit or miss with them. Some DPs leave them alone and some don't. I'd just keep them in a species tank if it was me...to prevent any aggression towards other fish. Give them adequate space, preferably a planted tank to lower aggression. Planting the tank breaks up the sight lines of the DPs so they don't torment each other.


then i'm not ready for that. i'm no good with planted tanks


----------

