# Equipment suggestions



## betaphish (Sep 24, 2011)

I subscribed for the magazine called Aquarium Fish International, and they sent me a "Doctor Foster and Smith" catalog with some products. I was thinking of getting this product called a "Siphon-Kleen." Before I order it, can someone tell me if this product is worth getting, if the supplier is reliable, and how to use a siphon? Do you start siphons with you mouth? If the product isn't worth getting, is there an alternative?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, I siphon by mouth. There is a very small risk of contracting a deadly illness. But I take my chances. After a few mouthfuls of water you get the trick of it. I never mastered any of the technologies they sell to replace it (the shake-it one, the squeeze bulb, the motorized one). The only 'alternate' siphon starting methods that work for me are to submerge the whole hose or fill the hose with water from faucet with a hose adapter. 

Yes, they are worth having. If you have gravel you should use something like that to get the fish poop out of the gravel. They come in different sizes and you want one that isn't taller then your tank. When you see "gravel-washing" on the board, this is what you use. It is also good for water changes and sucking up debris like algae you scrape off the glass. 

There are a couple alternatives to siphoning into a bucket. 
-You can use something like that attached to a long hose and sink adapter (Python or Lee's The Ultimate GravelVac), Which wastes water to create greater suction than gravity. 
-Or you use something like that attached to a power filter with a "micron filter". Often that device will come with a new Magnum 350 or HOT magnum. This recycles the water back into the tank. So you can do a really long, thorough cleaning. 

IME Drs. Foster and Smith is great for dry goods (haven't tried live fish). They have a great selection with a up-to-date stock list online and ship right to your door. Only drawback is paying for shipping. I usually wait until I need enough stuff to qualify for free shipping. Somewhere there is an old thread with a list of decent supply sites. 

I really need more details about your tank(s) before I recommend something. The XL is 24" high. IMO that is too big for even a 55 (21" high) because the joint with the hose would be out of the water. If it slips loose it will suck air and break the siphon. They come in all sizes. I have "mini" one by Lee's that is 4" and I use it siphon bare-bottomed, 5 gallon, fry tanks


----------



## betaphish (Sep 24, 2011)

Right now I have a 1.5 gallon which I am not going to use the siphon for. I am thinking of getting a five-gallon, and right now I have my eye on this one:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=freshwater+fish+tanks+5+gallon&hl=en&safe=active&rlz=1C1TSNF_enUS452US452&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1366&bih=681&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16629971160168893659&sa=X&ei=hymaT8CaNI662gWZ_ej5Dg&ved=0CNQBEPMCMAk
Then I have to ask if this is reliable. I'm kind of a... cheap... person.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

For little tanks, just get a piece of 1/2" or 3/4" hose to siphon with. I am not familiar with that brand. Read online reviews. In general, only the expensive small tank kits are decent, and not all of those. I am not of fan of all-in-ones in general. I prefer a generic glass tank with separate lid and filter that I can select and replace independently. If the filter quits, will you dump out the fish and send it back? Glass is longer lasting and less prone to scratching. 

Is there a reason for staying so small? Space restrictions? Budget? Bigger is better. i have seen some gorgeous nano tanks, but, IMO, they are more work than larger setups. Outside of bettas, fish suitable for the smallest tanks are hard to find.


----------



## AquariumTech (Oct 12, 2010)

You can siphon by mouth, but there are other ways. In fact I have water changing videos in my sig about this. They also have python type water changers that can use sinks or any water let, with modification any kind of pump can power it as well (not suggested crap from the gravel can ruin a pump). Though personally I use the Aqueon water changer (probably the only thing I would ever suggest getting from Aqueon), which is a python type system. Do a little research and you will understand it better, like I said I have water changing videos in my sig somewhere.


----------



## betaphish (Sep 24, 2011)

I already said that I'm kind of, er, cheap, so I tend to avoid things that are about $40 or more, which usually includes the tank kits. I'll take a look at those. Also, do bettas need filters?
I stay small because I mostly consider myself a beginner, plus I don't like spending a lot. Right now, though, I suppose I can make an exception for the equipment.


----------



## AquariumTech (Oct 12, 2010)

betaphish said:


> I already said that I'm kind of, er, cheap, so I tend to avoid things that are about $40 or more, which usually includes the tank kits. I'll take a look at those. Also, do bettas need filters?
> I stay small because I mostly consider myself a beginner, plus I don't like spending a lot. Right now, though, I suppose I can make an exception for the equipment.


See here is a common misconception, it is actually much harder to take care of a smaller tank, than a bigger one. The problem being is that in smaller tanks there is less water. What that basically means is that your water parameters (things like PH, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, KH, and etc.) can change much faster and are harder to keep balanced. Really its the sudden changes in things like that (and temperature) that kill fish more than anything else. Not to mention since its smaller, it needs water changes more often (generally speaking, it really all depends whats in the tanks being compared). Something the beginners tend to do too, is add a lot of fish in a short period of time or just over stock the tank. Which is another reason why really beginners should start off with medium - large size tanks (55G - 75G would probably be ideal).

Now as for the Betta, no they technically dont need filters, but I HIGHLY suggest it. Im not sure what you keeping him in, but I had a 1 gallon tank that this one filter worked great in. Filter I might suggest looking into is the Tom Dive Clean Mini (or something like that), you can pick it up for like 5 -20 bucks (depending where), and its nice because even when I got rid of the little 1 gallon, I just threw it in another bigger tank. It also comes with a spray bar, so it can project a soft amount of flow for the betta, because bettas dont like a lot of water flow. I have a review on it in my sig. Without a simple filter like that, you are going to need more water changes, and they still need water conditioner (pre aged/mixed). 

I can understand not wanting to spend a lot of money on stuff, but a water changer is not one of those things I would hold back on. It will probably last you for the rest of your life (when cared for properly) and is something you and your fish will depend on. It will be one of the most used things, for your aquariums. So with that being said, it would be worse if you wasted money on something you didnt like or was a piece of crap, and you had to replace anyways. There is a saying that goes "you get what you pay for", of course thats not always true.


----------



## yannis2307 (Apr 23, 2012)

i have a shake it siphon and it does great job never had a problem, needs less than 25 secs to start flow, and also has tooth-like plastic parts in the one end so you can shove the gravel and suck the little dust and stuff, i suggest it if you have gravel


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'd rather you buy a decent quality used set up (10-30 gallons) than a cheap plastic all-in-one. I have read too many stories of sudden cracking, filters that quit and need 2 weeks to get the part, and fish that all die after one overfeeding. You end up spending the money again to do it right. 

Any fish can do without a filter if you change all the water faster than the ammonia can kill it. However, ammonia is not a comfortable thing to live with, it burns the gills. I always recommend 2 filters for every tank. For a betta, a single small sponge filter can make all the difference and also allow you to cut water changes back to once a week. Lee's small round sponge filters are cheap and available. You can cut down the upright tube to fit even in a 1 gallon bowl. You also need an air-pump, air-line and a gang or other air-valve. You can likely find an old pump for $5 at a thrift store or garage sale and get the rest (line, valve, sponge) for under $10 new even at an LFS.


----------



## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

betaphish said:


> I already said that I'm kind of, er, cheap, so I tend to avoid things that are about $40 or more, which usually includes the tank kits. I'll take a look at those. Also, do bettas need filters?
> I stay small because I mostly consider myself a beginner, plus I don't like spending a lot. Right now, though, I suppose I can make an exception for the equipment.


Bettas do not need filters or heaters. They just need water. Clean water. And water that is 78 degrees.


----------



## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

true that bettas do not "need" filters or heaters...but it is best if they have them...not many places where the water temp stays at 78-82 degrees 24/7/365 without a heater...


----------



## betaphish (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm kind of confused now... I don't know whether it's better to get the kit kind or get the tank and equipment separately...
If getting a kit is better, I will probably get something from Aqueon or Hawkeye.
If getting everything separately is better, I will probably get all glass aquarium, a sponge filter from Lee's, and I already have everything else except for the heater. I am not familiar with any of these brands so if any of these companies are not reliable please tell me.
Can someone tell me the average price for heaters? I haven't been in a pet store for a while so I don't know. If it is less than the average I will dismiss it as junk.


----------



## AquariumTech (Oct 12, 2010)

betaphish said:


> I'm kind of confused now... I don't know whether it's better to get the kit kind or get the tank and equipment separately...
> If getting a kit is better, I will probably get something from Aqueon or Hawkeye.
> If getting everything separately is better, I will probably get all glass aquarium, a sponge filter from Lee's, and I already have everything else except for the heater. I am not familiar with any of these brands so if any of these companies are not reliable please tell me.
> Can someone tell me the average price for heaters? I haven't been in a pet store for a while so I don't know. If it is less than the average I will dismiss it as junk.


Kits suck, for many reasons, and I dont feel like writing a book here, but you can compare them in quality to comparable items and can easily see the difference (seriously even if they are cheaper at first glance I can practically write a book on why kits are money going down the toilet). The only kits I would even consider getting is some of the Fluvals (EX: Edge, Chi, Spec, Ebi, and Flora) or Ecoxotic's EcoPico. Marineland makes some "ok" ones though I hate the fact its hard to change the filter on most of them, as they rely on the stupid bio-wheels, that just dont work (in theory they do, just the execution on Marinelands part is sub-par).

Anyways as far as aquariums go, if you are cheap get a used one off craigslist or something, or wait for Petcos $1 per gallon sale (EX: 55G aquarium cost 55 bucks). Really it doesnt depend on too much of what brand of aquarium you get for a betta, just go with a glass one, and if you buy used make sure it is sealed before you pony up, other than that just look at the price tags. 

For heaters, usually price is between 10-30 bucks. I know Marineland had the Stealth Pro heaters, and they were a great deal, but I know they had a big recall on the visitherms and the regular stealths, so I think they just pulled all of them off the self. So if they dont have the Pros, the Fluval M Series is excellent bang for the buck as well, they are very well done heaters, and you can easily see it at first sight. I dont suggest going with the Aqueons or like a Petco brand (because they are the same as the Aqueons) because they are a pain in the ass to set (dont have numbers set on the unit), are the same price if not more than most of the ones I use, and thermostats are horrible and very inaccurate, although I have to admit they do last a while, but so do most of the other heaters I use, hell, I still have a Marineland one from 1992 that runs just fine. The only reason I mentioned that brand (Aqueon), is because I figured you were going to a big brand pet store, and thats usually all they have.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I haven't found a foolproof heater of any brand. The mail order places have some house brands (big als) that are cheap, but I don't know how good they are. Heaters used to fail by failing to heat, now they fail by failing to shut off, so get a thermometer (stick on is fine, just so you can see at a glance if your fish are cooking). For a large tank, there are better sponge filter's than the Lee's, but they are about the smallest, widely available one (there is also a tiny Azoo). There are very few containers you can't stick one of these in and in those (i.e. a shoebox) you can use a gob of filter floss tied to air-line. I am not fond of "in the lid" filters for tanks, but for a light load (like 1 betta) they do fine. Its mostly that when they quit, you can't fix it quickly and there is no place to stick a HOB. Kits that come with tank, lid, light and filter usually have a cheap, undersized filter. But lights have gotten so pricey separately that if you want "stock, 1 bulb" lighting, a kit is sometimes worth it even if you need to buy another filter.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

25 seconds to start a siphon? Too long. No wonder I never mastered it, I'm too impatient. 2 seconds to suck and drop the end in the bucket. An electric water pump attached to hose also works well. Just flip the switch


----------



## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

look on craigslist...for a couple of more dollars you can get an entire set up 5 times as big as that piece of plastic junk you are looking at...in fact, i was looking yesterday and saw a 55 gallon tank , cabinet stand , lids and light in very nice shape for $75.00..twice as much money ; 10 times the tank...
i have the big python and i do like it ; but have switched over to a higher velocity electric pump so my water changes can go faster...but my wife likes to have more control so i made her a couple of small syphons....very easy to make your own....


----------



## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

thanks emc7...you just had to mention heaters getting stuck in the "ON" position....
i ha a pair of super long fin bushynose plecos...male is brown and the femal albino...they had spawned and a few weeks later spawned again so i moved the male and the eggs to another tank...yesterday i moved the female into another tank and put the male in with her...the first spawn looked fantastic...today when i went down all of the first spawn were dead...the high end top of the line ebo jager heater had stuck on and cooked all 75 of the young.....the only good thing is that i at least got the female out before she got cooked too..i have the second spawn and the pair should spawn again soon....
just goes to show that the best isn't always the best...
but you were right about the old ones not turning on and the new ones not turning off....


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I hate this. It seems to happen more and more frequently across all makers. Except for the lowest tier, its about time to unplug my heaters for the summer. No sense taking an unnecessary risk. If you find a model with an actual thermal fuse, let me know.


----------



## AquariumTech (Oct 12, 2010)

Thats crazy, I dont think I have ever had that happen to a heater, except for one crappy off-name, that I got in a deal from the mid 80s. I hope I dont jinx myself lol.


----------



## betaphish (Sep 24, 2011)

I just wanted to know what heaters are good, and now I get this huge response about past heaters that sucked... I just wanted to know reliable brands... uh...
Just asking, what's the minimum size for a tank that has two living things in it, not counting plants. That is, like, a betta and a ghost shrimp or guppy or another female betta or tetra. I think that it's ten gallons.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The larger the tank, the safer it is. Less change of any issue wiping out everything.


----------



## yannis2307 (Apr 23, 2012)

yeah, 25 secs is too much, but in 25 more secs you will have sucked at least 5 gallons...


----------



## betaphish (Sep 24, 2011)

yes, but is it ten gallons? So technically I can keep two fish in a half gallon, which would be incredibly unsafe but I could still do it? Is there a minimum?


----------



## AquariumTech (Oct 12, 2010)

betaphish said:


> I just wanted to know what heaters are good, and now I get this huge response about past heaters that sucked... I just wanted to know reliable brands... uh...
> Just asking, what's the minimum size for a tank that has two living things in it, not counting plants. That is, like, a betta and a ghost shrimp or guppy or another female betta or tetra. I think that it's ten gallons.


For that you will need at LEAST a 10G, not to mention Bettas need their space, they are aggressive by nature so if they arent in their own tank, make sure they get some space. Not really the best mix to put in a tank together. 

Again, though "minimum size" is always the worst size, going bigger is the best thing you can possibly do for yourself and your fish, I would give some thought to our warnings. As experienced hobbyist telling you this, there is many reasons for this.

As for the heater I already did a good list for you on the first page.


----------

