# sick snails



## Squidlet (Jan 30, 2009)

I have a 55 gal tank, relatively newly set up, populated with at last count (they're breeding) 7 Gambusia (these are about the size of male guppies), a generous quantity of live plants, and two large yellow snails. Filtration is an undergravel plus an Emperor 280. Two grow lights. No heating system as the Gambusia are pond fish and quite happy in a 60 deg tank in my unheated 60 deg house.
Plan is to get a pair of black moor goldfish into it but wanting to let it run as it is a few months first.
The problem is that I acquired some of those pesky olive shaped nuisance snails in a plant shipment. I removed my large snails and treated the tank with 'Had a Snail' (metaldehyde) twice. Didn't kill all the nuisance snails but definitely knocked the population back quite a bit. After several weeks I did a 50% water change, changed the filter cartridge and the extra carbon cartridge, and put my big snails back in the tank. Now the big snails look slow and sick...I've removed them again, into a bowl of different water, and they're not dead...yet...but they are obviously hurting. Meanwhile the pest snails continue to multiply. I'm now to the point of manually removing them when they get to the water line.
My question is this: are the large snails more sensitive to the metaldehyde than the tiny ones? Does it concentrate on (in) the gravel? What is the ideal temperature range for snails? Does anyone have any ideas as to how I might help them recover? I thought about salt but somehow salting snails seems wrong, LOL.
Thanks!


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Squidlet said:


> I have a 55 gal tank, relatively newly set up, populated with at last count (they're breeding) 7 Gambusia (these are about the size of male guppies), a generous quantity of live plants, and two large yellow snails. Filtration is an undergravel plus an Emperor 280. Two grow lights. No heating system as the Gambusia are pond fish and quite happy in a 60 deg tank in my unheated 60 deg house.
> Plan is to get a pair of black moor goldfish into it but wanting to let it run as it is a few months first.
> The problem is that I acquired some of those pesky olive shaped nuisance snails in a plant shipment. I removed my large snails and treated the tank with 'Had a Snail' (metaldehyde) twice. Didn't kill all the nuisance snails but definitely knocked the population back quite a bit. After several weeks I did a 50% water change, changed the filter cartridge and the extra carbon cartridge, and put my big snails back in the tank. Now the big snails look slow and sick...I've removed them again, into a bowl of different water, and they're not dead...yet...but they are obviously hurting. Meanwhile the pest snails continue to multiply. I'm now to the point of manually removing them when they get to the water line.
> My question is this: are the large snails more sensitive to the metaldehyde than the tiny ones? Does it concentrate on (in) the gravel? What is the ideal temperature range for snails? Does anyone have any ideas as to how I might help them recover? I thought about salt but somehow salting snails seems wrong, LOL.
> Thanks!


Buy a couple Clown Loaches and they will solve your snail problem in a few weeks instead of depending on some type of eradication medication. Also, please don't add Black Moors to your tank because it would appear you have a tropical tank and goldfish are coldwater (unheated) fish.


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## Squidlet (Jan 30, 2009)

What makes you say a 60 deg fresh water tank is 'tropical'?
An why would clown loaches thrive in such an environment?
Thanks.


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Squidlet said:


> What makes you say a 60 deg fresh water tank is 'tropical'?
> An why would clown loaches thrive in such an environment?
> Thanks.


60 degrees should be ok for the Black Moors, but you're right Clown Loaches won't make it unless it is 70-75 degrees. Maybe there is some type of coldwater snail predator out there.


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

Dojo loaches to well in cooler water & and looove snails. But now the problem you have is the copper you added to your tank, & until 100% of that is removed, you will not be able to put your yellow apples back in. Yes it will settle into the substraight. Vacuum as much as you can and do large water changes. Even that will not be 100%, since you are using a, undergravel filter. If you truly want your yellow apples back in the tank, it may come down to pulling the undergravel and doing a thorough cleaning. 
This is one of the main reasons I warn people about using any chemicals in their tanks, when there are more natural ways of controlling problems.


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## Squidlet (Jan 30, 2009)

Thank you for answering my question so well. I did vacuume the gravel when I changed the water but obviously not enough. I think I'll keep these snails in the bowl they're in, as a separate set- up...assuming they survive. They haven't moved much at all today, though they're still alive (they close up when I poke them). I guess time will tell if they got a survivable dose of the Cu++ or not...you don't know of any way to chelate Cu++ do you?
I feel awful about this...they were tiny when I got them, and they were growing rapidly into large, robust, energetic creatures up until I did this to them. It really sucks that the pest snails seem impervious to the Cu++, while the nice ones are dying.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> way to chelate Cu++ do you?


Not for sure, but EDTA is added to water conditioners to "detoxify" heavy metals. Its pretty safe (side effect is foam at the surface), you could try it or a water conditioner like nov-aqua that has it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDTA


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## Squidlet (Jan 30, 2009)

Follow up: I think my apple snails are going to make it! They're now in a 3 gal bowl, I'm changing the water every other day w/ lots of Novaqua. I moved the bowl into the bedroom which is heated (about 67 deg in that room as opposed to under 60 in the rest of the house). The first few days they didn't move but the last two they've been cruising the walls. Plan is to just keep them in the bowl permanently and go w/ the Dojo Loaches for snail control in the big tank. I'm going to buy them some new plants, I don't want add any from the toxic tank. Thank you soooo much Sue M and emc7 for your excellent advice!


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm very glad they are doing ok 
But keep in mind that they climb out, I'd keep a lid on the bowl


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

SueM said:


> Dojo loaches to well in cooler water & and looove snails.


Sue, I have not observed dojos to eat snails of all ages. Did you observe yours to eat them? Their mouth structure does not allow them to suck the snails. Kuhlis, dojos and hillstreams have been observed as the only ones that do not eat snails. It's the botiine genus that should be watched out for as these ones naturally will eat the snails.


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