# Need suggestions for my planning



## Fishboy93

I've done my research and know what I want but have a few questions because of the inconsistancy of the internet. I have a 29 Gallon Aquarium that i want to tear down and create a nice FOWLR then maybe start to add a few simple corals. I also am tearing down my 20L so I can focus on one tank. My dilemna is that there is no way to buy RO water in my area and really dont want to buy distilled water. So I was wondering what your opinion would be. My plan was to use my 20L to hold saltwater that had been treated with seachems prime and then and then have a power filter with a phoszorb and/or activated carbon. Would this work and also would I have to raise this waters pH to match the tank? How would i raise the pH? 

Also, I was curious what skimmer you thought would be the best for its price(50-100 dollars).

As for liverock i wanted to have about 40lbs of limestone for base rock and 20lbs of live rock. Is this a smart plan?

So here's the Setup:
29 Gallon:
130W PC Lighting
(?)Blue Legged Hermit Crabs and (?)Cerith or other algae eating snail(Suggestions?)
AC110/500 DIY Refugium
Skimmer
Powerhead(Suggestions?)
Sand Substrate

Fish would be:
Neon Blue Goby(Elacatinus oceanops) 
A Pseudochromis Sp. (Suggestions?)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica) 
Too much/Too little?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated,
FB93


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## flamingo

I don't use RO water or distilled water in any of my set-ups (except sometimes on my 5 gallon)- not totally needed but your water may have minerals, etc. that can trigger an algae bloom. But, with saying that you may get brown algae, it's commonly replaced by a different type of green algae, or just disappears.

If you have saltwater in a seperate container, you don't need to treat it anything, etc. to raise pH. When you mix salt, it already has buffers and the like- so it comes out around 8.1-8.4. It'll take a few weeks for the pH in that to drop considerably. I wouldn't worry about matching the pH to the tank- it may be slightly off, but if you add slowly it won't matter much.

As for the skimmer, I suggest the coralife needle-wheel skimmer, it runs anywhere from 70-90 dollars depending on who you buy from.


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## Fishboy93

flamingo said:


> I don't use RO water or distilled water in any of my set-ups (except sometimes on my 5 gallon)- not totally needed but your water may have minerals, etc. that can trigger an algae bloom. But, with saying that you may get brown algae, it's commonly replaced by a different type of green algae, or just disappears.
> 
> If you have saltwater in a seperate container, you don't need to treat it anything, etc. to raise pH. When you mix salt, it already has buffers and the like- so it comes out around 8.1-8.4. It'll take a few weeks for the pH in that to drop considerably. I wouldn't worry about matching the pH to the tank- it may be slightly off, but if you add slowly it won't matter much.
> 
> As for the skimmer, I suggest the coralife needle-wheel skimmer, it runs anywhere from 70-90 dollars depending on who you buy from.


Ahhhh, i didnt think of the salts affect on the pH.. Thank you for the suggestions. Also, if I go out to a remote area, would it be an alright idea to collect a little sand to jumps start mine with some bacteria/organisms?


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## flamingo

No,  you should never take something like that from the wild. Even if it's remote, there are parasites, critters, contaminants, etc. that are living in it. Just start the tank up and add your live rock with an ammonia source (if the rock doesn't have much die off) and it should start cycling by itself.

Plus, i'm not too sure on sand, but it's usually illegal. At least with live rock, etc.


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## CollegeReefer

This is what i would do with a smaller tank. 29 gallon display with an overflow box going down to your 20L converted to a sump. Go with 40-50 pounds of liverock with a 2 inch sand bottom seeded by livesand. Because you are planning on just a FOWLR tank you pcs would be fine. In the sump you can place your skimmer (i am a fan of the coralife needlewheele...best bang for the buck) Your fishlist isn't bad at all. Just remember to go slow.


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## Fishboy93

CollegeReefer said:


> This is what i would do with a smaller tank. 29 gallon display with an overflow box going down to your 20L converted to a sump. Go with 40-50 pounds of liverock with a 2 inch sand bottom seeded by livesand. Because you are planning on just a FOWLR tank you pcs would be fine. In the sump you can place your skimmer (i am a fan of the coralife needlewheele...best bang for the buck) Your fishlist isn't bad at all. Just remember to go slow.


I want to do that but I am worried because there isn't any space for the tank.. If i switch all my tanks around it might work. I have one of those double 20 gallon long stands, will that work?


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## TheOldSalt

If you use tapwater from florida, and if you put beach sand in the tank, then you will have brown diatoms in your tank forever. In some parts of the country this isn't a problem, but down there it is, especially from coastal towns like yours. Don't believe me? Ask anybody you know locally who has tried it. I've been there and done that, and I was not a happy camper. If you can't spend 17 bucks for distilled water, then you are really heading for a lot of problems with your hobby and your tank. I hate to say it, but it's true; reefkeeping is not cheap, and you will occasionally have problems pop up needing immediate, and pricey, resolution.
Many Gulf Coast towns also put extra chemicals in the water to offset the effects of the nearby seaspray and the Red Tide. When these get into your tank, it will ruin your whole day. Inverts are very sensitive, you know, and algae conversely love the stuff. So, Gulf Coast reeftanks need distilled water, or maybe RO, and beach sand should be avoided for best results.
Can you get away with ignoring this advice and doing it your way anyway? Sure you can. You won't be happy with the results, but you certainly can. 

That said, you don't have to do everything just perfectly. You'll ultimately save money and have better success if you do, but you don't. Liverock is expensive, though, so it behooves you to keep it in good shape and not let it get choked out by algae and diatoms. I know i sound like a big meanie, but I really am just trying to save you a ton of hassle and expense.


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## Fishboy93

TheOldSalt said:


> If you use tapwater from florida, and if you put beach sand in the tank, then you will have brown diatoms in your tank forever. In some parts of the country this isn't a problem, but down there it is, especially from coastal towns like yours. Don't believe me? Ask anybody you know locally who has tried it. I've been there and done that, and I was not a happy camper. If you can't spend 17 bucks for distilled water, then you are really heading for a lot of problems with your hobby and your tank. I hate to say it, but it's true; reefkeeping is not cheap, and you will occasionally have problems pop up needing immediate, and pricey, resolution.
> Many Gulf Coast towns also put extra chemicals in the water to offset the effects of the nearby seaspray and the Red Tide. When these get into your tank, it will ruin your whole day. Inverts are very sensitive, you know, and algae conversely love the stuff. So, Gulf Coast reeftanks need distilled water, or maybe RO, and beach sand should be avoided for best results.
> Can you get away with ignoring this advice and doing it your way anyway? Sure you can. You won't be happy with the results, but you certainly can.
> 
> That said, you don't have to do everything just perfectly. You'll ultimately save money and have better success if you do, but you don't. Liverock is expensive, though, so it behooves you to keep it in good shape and not let it get choked out by algae and diatoms. I know i sound like a big meanie, but I really am just trying to save you a ton of hassle and expense.


Thanks you very much, I know your not trying to be mean, plus your more experienced than most/all of us here.

After talking with flamingo in the chat I have decided to do a substrate along these lines http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CS0050, a coralife skimmer, and also I will use my 20L as a sump. Also, I have found and RO Water Dispensor near me.

I was unsure as to your talking about the Live Rock, can limestone still be used for base rock?


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## TheOldSalt

Sure, no problem. You should probably soak it in a bucket of freshwater for a week or two to leach out it's strongest alkaline punch first, though, just to be safe. Nothing like a pH of 9.2 to give you grief when you least expect it.


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## Fishboy93

Okay thank you very much, my next question is regarding the refugium/sump, how strong/what type of return pump would you suggest?

EDIT: Also woult this overflow work?http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/productInfo.web?infoParam.mode=1&infoParam.itemKey=213290


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## Osiris

Personally i used the DIY AC110 refugium that worked out real well and had lots of LR in there, i just kept up on my weekly waterchanges, never had a problem, be sure to top off daily. 

But i did have a dolphin return pump when i was setting up the 75g, man that thing was like a hose shooting water out! but with urs mag pump would do prolly a 9.5


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## Fishboy93

Osiris said:


> Personally i used the DIY AC110 refugium that worked out real well and had lots of LR in there, i just kept up on my weekly waterchanges, never had a problem, be sure to top off daily.
> 
> But i did have a dolphin return pump when i was setting up the 75g, man that thing was like a hose shooting water out! but with urs mag pump would do prolly a 9.5



Thanks Osiris, but you im still confused as to the difference between U tube and CPR, U tube is better right? Which type would this be? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=230109710862&rd=1&rd=1


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## Fishboy93

Anyone know? Went to the lfs and they use tap water..


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## Fishfirst

that overflow would probably be overkill.... look for something in the range of 600 - 900 gph


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## Damon

Most salt mixes tell you you can use tap water and some people do. It really depends on your water source as well all have different types of water. Some water is higher than others in PO4 which is a big no-no in reef tanks. SOme are higher in heavy metals which is also a big no-no. Its best to use R.O/DI water and add salt to it. That way you know exactly whats in your water. We have a lfs here that uses R.O. water with chambers that are at least 3 years old. The water is horrible and their fish show the ill effects.


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## Fishboy93

Yea lol i was refering more to the brand and whether or not it was CPR or U tube..bad wording....Here are some pics for all the newbies who plan on creating a saltwater reef step-by-step

Pic #1-The Empty Tank









Pic #2- The Base Rock Soaking as suggested by TOS









Pic#3- Base rock close-up









This weekend im heading over to my lfs to get some advice and make some minor purchases.


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## Fishboy93

Woot! Making a transaction on a CPR Bakpak2 Skimmer for $50 bucks and it comes with a pump.


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## Fishboy93

Questions:

Uno- For return pumps, its like 2.5 to 3 feet of tubing how strong should the pump be? The overflow will have 600gph. Also, for both of the tubing, what diameter should it be?

Dos- Will the liverock have enough die off to provide a decent cycle for the tank, the liverock is completely cured.


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## fishfingers

The pumps sometimes give you different ratings for different head heights, so have a look on the package for that. Don't know about tubing sorry, unless your using PVC pipe I'd probably just use whatever tubing fit your powerheads nozzle?

It your liverock is completely cured there will be no need for a cycle. The point of a cycle is to establish a bacteria colony in your tank and if the liverock is already cured then this bacteria colony is established. There should be no die off from cured LR, but it is very uncommon to have the LR be completely cured when put into your tank due to traportation.


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## Fishboy93

Okay thank you. Im going to my favorite lfs this weekend to make some purcahses ill take some pics..


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## Damon

A Mag 7 should be enough for your return pump. Use ball valves so you can adjust the drain flow or possibly the return. 600gph in a 20 long. How big is the sump?


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## Fishboy93

The tank is a 29 gallon with a 20 Gallon Long Sump. Sorry for confusion. Went to the lfs and actually went with a Rio+ 2100 Pump. One of the employees has a 29 gallon reef and said it would work. The RO is .50 Cents a gallon for fresh.
Pic 4- Before








Pic 5- Halfway through








Pic 6- How not to cut glass








Pic 7 and 8- New setup
















Pic 9- My two PC lights








Pic 10- Close up on Fuge/sump








Pic 11- New Overflow and Powerhead









What Exactly I bought- 
Powerhead
Overflow
Plexi-Glass
Silicone

Whats coming in mail-
CPR Bac Pak Protein Skimmer
The Conscientous Reef Aquarist
SW Master Test Kit

Sorry for bad pics, think im on the right path?


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## k-dawg-

hehe thts the back of my head, btw like my terrible caulk job?


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## guppyart

coming along nicely fishboy, oh and nice caulking job dawg probably better then what I could do.
looks really nice with the light on top, now get some liverock I want to see more pics


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## flamingo

Looks like your doing great so far . I'm not good at diy anything..


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## Bear

haha, it looks like the caulk will work just fine. Next time if you wanna make it look better just make one bead for each side and after all the sides are done run ur finger over it to push it into the crack and smooth it out.


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## Fishboy93

Bear said:


> haha, it looks like the caulk will work just fine. Next time if you wanna make it look better just make one bead for each side and after all the sides are done run ur finger over it to push it into the crack and smooth it out.


Thanks for the suggestions, if i have to do that ever again Ill keep that in mind. Thanks for all the comments, but sadly i cant fill it up or add anything for another week because im going on away next Thursday to visit my sister, so im not going to rush it and just wait. When the time does come, can I add Water, Liverock, Livesand all at the same time? Can I also add some chaeto algae and some of the cleaner crew too, or should I wait until it is fully cycled? Thanks


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## k-dawg-

also should we put a check valve on the return pump in case of a power outtage so it doesnt siphon back into the sump


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## Fishboy93

Some updates from today- Base Rock was added
Pic 12- Base Rock in my tank, I will probably remove some once i get the Live Rock








Pic 13- Sump was tested for leaks, had one going from skimmer to fuge space








Pic 14- Will this light work for fuge? It's 18 Watts.


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## CollegeReefer

Looking very good. What did you use to cut it? lol...What ever you used it seemd to work. We just threw a sump together as well, but we had the glass cut at the store even though it still didn't fit...lol As long as it does its job who cares what it looks like.


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## Fishboy93

Our Home Depot sold the stuff but didnt cut it, so my bro being the handyman he is used a pocket knife to cut a rivet in it and then I jumped on it and it split(most of the time). Can someone please answer our questions above?


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## k-dawg-

lol its called scoring and cracking its the best way to cut acrylic cuz a regular saw blade on an electric saw will melt the acrylic, its just really hard to do when you need to take 1/2 and inch off hence the weights/score line/hammer combo didnt work that time


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## CollegeReefer

To awnser your question about a valve on the return you need one to adjust the amout of water being pushed out of the sump. If your pump pushes more water up to the display then what your over flow allows, your sump will be drained.

FIY Acrylic should never be silconed to glass for it won't stay. I have known several people who have done acrylic to glass only having to redo it after the baffles fall apart (not sure how to word that). General rule is glass to glass, Acrylic to acrylic. Why you might asked, well because silicone doesn't bond to acrylic. The way they bound Acrylic to acrylic is using a chemical that melts the plastic. Hopefully you don't have any problems.


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## leveldrummer

the sillycone will bond to the glass, and it should hold the acrylic in place, a sump baffle usually doesnt have any pressure on it, not much anyway. and the silicone should just hold it in place, you will probably be ok. especially with your very fancy silicone work i see there.


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## Fishboy93

leveldrummer said:


> the sillycone will bond to the glass, and it should hold the acrylic in place, a sump baffle usually doesnt have any pressure on it, not much anyway. and the silicone should just hold it in place, you will probably be ok. especially with your very fancy silicone work i see there.


Lol thanks, I thought it'd be okay because it was rated 7/10 for acrylic, but after reading a book. I've narrowed it down to these species: Bangaii Cardinalfish, Royal Gramma, Firefish, Neon Blue Goby, and a Yellow Watchman goby. Probably too much right? Should I eliminate one?


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## CollegeReefer

A very nice fish list, but that would be close to the max though.


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## fishfingers

That 18w light should be fine for a fuge, I've found macro will grow like crazy even under low light. Your fish list looks fine, although IMO you'll be pushing it a bit. I know of people who keep 5 fish in 25-30 gallon tanks though with out any problems, but just keep an eye on your nitrates when your adding your fish. And make sure you keep up to check with your maintenance.


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## Fishboy93

I've decided to remove the firefish... I dont like tanks that looked packed with fish...


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## k-dawg-

ya about the acrylic to glass its not the best combo, silicone bonds really well to glass, and there is a special glue that melts pieces of acrylic together to make a seal, thats how the glass-glass/acrylic-acrylic rule came into place, silicone works fairly well in holding acrylic but its not the best and def shouldnt be trusted for anything under pressure but for baffles in a sump acrylic is fine as long as you use good silicone


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## Fishboy93

Updates: Substrate is on the way, we put another diagonal piece in case the overlow loses siphon so it wont overflow.. Also, i've come to really really like yellowheaded jawfish. would a 4-5 Inch deep area suffice? Also, i was curious if anyone has had any experiance with Tampa Bay Saltwater? It looks good, but it seems as though it has almost too much stuff....


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## leveldrummer

you can add the firefish back, your really only going to have 4 fish, the neon gobies are tiny, and dont account for much strain on a tank, the watchman will stay at the bottom, so you will actually have 3 fish free swimming in the water column, seems like a good list in the first post.


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## Fishboy93

Okay, thanks im beginning to see the advantages of Metal Halides...would a 175watt to 200watt work nicely without burning up my shrooms and zoa's? they'd be toward the bottom anyway.....http://cgi.ebay.com/175-Watt-Metal-...5QQihZ007QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. would this work? Would i have to build something around it?


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## leveldrummer

a system LIKE that would be a great setup, but i would try to find a brand that you can trust, one that youve heard of, certain things you dont want to skimp on, and thats usually lights and a skimmer, im sure you can get incontact with a local reef club, and find a nice set up that is used. 175w wouldnt hurt your zoo's at all, or your mushrooms for that matter, even if you keep them all the way up, they will adjust to the higher light and thrive nicely.

250w would be better, but you might run into heat issues, and end up looking for a chiller. so a 175 is great. never seen a 200 though. 

im also not aware of the exact dimensions of your tank, if its longer then 2', getting a could t5's or pc's to run with the mh would be a very good idea too.


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## Fishboy93

Well, I did end up purchasing a MH(75 bucks not bad eh?) its 250 watts. The bad news is that its magnetic ballast not electronic. Is 14k or 20k the best for all around good growth. We'd rather not use the PC's in addition(My bro gets free upgrade and so does my sump).


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## leveldrummer

Fishboy93 said:


> Well, I did end up purchasing a MH(75 bucks not bad eh?) its 250 watts. The bad news is that its magnetic ballast not electronic. Is 14k or 20k the best for all around good growth. We'd rather not use the PC's in addition(My bro gets free upgrade and so does my sump).


there is a fine line between growth and looks, generally the 6500k or 10000k get the best growth, but they color is very yellow or white, if you want a blueish look, your going to sacrafice fast growth for looks and go with a 12-14-or 20 k, the higher the number the bluer the bulb. (usualy)


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## Fishboy93

leveldrummer said:


> there is a fine line between growth and looks, generally the 6500k or 10000k get the best growth, but they color is very yellow or white, if you want a blueish look, your going to sacrafice fast growth for looks and go with a 12-14-or 20 k, the higher the number the bluer the bulb. (usualy)


Will any degree K lighting work without atinics? Im trying to spread out my lights:lol:


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## leveldrummer

Fishboy93 said:


> Will any degree K lighting work without atinics? Im trying to spread out my lights:lol:


yea, the k rating is a loose description of the color, im sure there is some science there, but after switching around the bulbs, it seems its just a manufacturers guess as to what K something really is.

i run 14k's with no actinics at all. they are blue enough to make the greens and other colors pop and flourese. but not so blue that it hurts my eyeballs to look at it. lol


if you want FAST growth, a 6500 or a 10 k is your best bet. if you dont mine slower growth and would like the bluer color, 14/15 to 20 is good too.

and even that isnt always true, some bulbs just have higher par/lux 

XM's 20 k's have WAY more par then their 15k. its just one of those things.


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## Fishboy93

Okay thank you....Came up with another question...Is it a bad idea two add liverock at different times? Like 10lbs one week then 10lbs two weeks later?


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## leveldrummer

Fishboy93 said:


> Okay thank you....Came up with another question...Is it a bad idea two add liverock at different times? Like 10lbs one week then 10lbs two weeks later?


 no, thats fine, but you never want to add live rock once you have added and live stock. unless you cure it really well in a seperate container. if you add it 10 lbs at a time, you going to be throwing you cycle around. but as long as there is no animals in it, it wont do any harm, it will just be longer before you can stock it, the last piece of live rock will have to cycle and let the die off decompose completely.

just an idea, if you cant afford all the live rock at once, try to find some base rock, (just live rock thats been dried and dead for a long time) put a bunch at the bottom, and seed it with 10-15lbs of live. it will all be live before you know it.


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## Fishboy93

I have Base rock in(Look on second page) Its just i want to make progress before summer when I can buy from Tampabaysaltwater.com. ...All the live rock is cured. I just dont like an empty tank to stare at.If Both places have cured Live Rock will the tank re-cycle after the second addition?I'd like to add some beginner corals.. Thank you for all your help.


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## leveldrummer

no matter how "cured" live rock is, its not a good idea to toss it in a tank with animals already in it. for one, you dont really know how cured it is. unless you run test over a couple days. two... taking it out of the water and on a short ride home (or shipping it) can cause dieoff, which has to break down and be cycled. its always good to add all your rock and be done with ti before addin anything else. 

once the tank is established, if you want to add a small piece once in a while, it shouldnt do any harm. but 10 lbs is a much different story.


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## Fishboy93

Well, i decided im gonna just buy it all on saturday. Getting RO water and salt tomorrow. MH light is on the way. I got a PC light in the meantime. Substrate is in. Made an mistake and didnt clean it that well and have a good amount of silt :/ .....


Also...How long after the liverock is in can I begin to add corals? Im going to call tomorrow and see how their liverock looks.


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## leveldrummer

Fishboy93 said:


> Made an mistake and didnt clean it that well and have a good amount of silt :/ .....
> 
> 
> Also...How long after the liverock is in can I begin to add corals? Im going to call tomorrow and see how their liverock looks.



some people say wash it, some say dont, either way, its gonna cloud up a little, but it will go away in a day or so.


you need to get test kits!! get ammonia, nitrate and nitrite. cycle the tank like a freshwater. ammonia spike, nitrite spike, nitrate. after the first two read 0, wait a little while, make sure nothing else comes up. do a small water change and start stocking. sometimes you can avoid a cycle with good liverock (but its very rare) and a cycle can take up to a month or two. so take your time and BE PATIENT!!


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## Fishboy93

Got all my test kits ahead of time. RO Water and Salt are in little cloudy but better than before. Didnt think I could anyway. Liverock and pics tomorrow..


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## Fishboy93

lol leveldrummer we have a lot of experience in freshwater (just never could afford s/w till now) and have read a ton about s/w...we kno the nitrogen cycle you can stop all the exclamation points =) i'll make sure he's patient don't worry.

EDIT: woops i posted on my brother's account its really k-dawg-


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## Fishboy93

Update: Bought 25lbs of liverock today. Pics:

FTS:









Auto TopOff, Mounted powerstrip(Re-wired the stuff):

















Some sort of Fan like thing(sorry for bad pic):


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## Fishboy93

Found my first apistia...How do you guys suggest i kill this thing?


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## leveldrummer

Fishboy93 said:


> Found my first apistia...How do you guys suggest i kill this thing?


joes juice, kalk paste, pickling lime, boiling water. any of those have been known to work (joes juice is probably the best bet) inject it into the aptasia, in the mouth/head area, with a syringe.


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## Fishboy93

Apistia is dead. Ammonia is at .5 , pH 8.3, Sg-1.026. These look alright? Should I wait till after the cycle to add some chaeto algae?


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## leveldrummer

i think macro algae is fine to add, shouldnt hurt it.


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## Fishboy93

Well, today I found a feather duster! Do I need to buy anything, if so what? Also, while i was at the lfs over the weekend I saw some of their zoanthids. They seemed really small compared to online pics. Like smaller than a pencil eraser.....


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## flamingo

Chaeto with weather a cycling tank okay, any other macro will usually end up dying off though.

Feather dusters need a tank that's been established with not so "pristine" water conditions, and need multiple filter feeders foods to survive. The food for them will cost as much, or even more, than the critter itself for one bottle.


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## musho3210

may i just suggest something here, are you still using the all-glass heater? If you are i suggest you making a switch. My old all-glass was nothing but a pain in the butt. I constantly worried about it getting stuck and over heating my tank. Plus the temp in the tank was 6 degrees higher than what i had set it. Switch to a visi-therm.


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## leveldrummer

if its the small hitch hiker feather duster, dont worry about it, it will be fine. no food or nothng. if its one of the large ones like the hawiians, some food is probably a good idea untill your tank matures.

zoanthids are usually pretty small, the ones in the lfs are probably a little ticked off too, once they get home and settle in, they usually open up a little bigger, and spread nice.


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## Fishboy93

Okay thanks all, Its small, im just gonna let it be and w/e. Musho: Being in Fl, we hardly ever need a heater, but I may upgrade once it comes time next winter. We hung the MH light today, pics will be posted a little later. Also, I bought some Egg Crate for the hood to keep temps low. Right now it hovers around 82. What should I shoot for?


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## k-dawg-

Here's the MH for my brother's tank that i hung today lol this simple little project ended up being like 2hrs but i think it turned out nice. I used special drywall hooks and picture frame wire to hang it.


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## leveldrummer

your temp is on the high side of what you want, most people go anywhere from 76-80, the key is finding the zone in which your most stable, stablility is much more important than an actual degree. keeping it down below 80 would be great, as long as you dont get huge swings while your lights go on and off.


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## Fishboy93

Today we made Egg Crate hoods and a mini prop shelf for in the fuge. Hopefully that will help lower the temp. Pics tomorrow.


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## leveldrummer

taking that top off the tank will help a TON!


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## Fishboy93

With the new egg crate the tank temp lowered about 1 or 2 degrees. Today the Nitrate spiked to about 30(Okay, good, bad?). We also made a mini prop stand for the sump with the extra egg crate


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## leveldrummer

30 is high for nitrates, especially for a reef, not so much for a fish only, but skimming and water changes will help that alot.


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## Fishboy93

But is that generally normal for a tank that is cycling?


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## leveldrummer

the nitrates dont matter much for a cycling tank, keep up with your ammonia, and your nitrItes, once those are at 0, do a big water change and check your nitrates, they should stay pretty low, with a fuge, good skimming, and good live rock, you should be able to get your nitrates very close to 0.


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## musho3210

leveldrummer said:


> the nitrates dont matter much for a cycling tank, keep up with your ammonia, and your nitrItes, once those are at 0, do a big water change and check your nitrates, they should stay pretty low, with a fuge, good skimming, and good live rock, you should be able to get your nitrates very close to 0.


and/or the possible deep sand bed.


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## Fishfirst

musho3210 said:


> and/or the possible deep sand bed.


Unless its setup unproperly and actually becomes a nitrate factory... OR even worse ... a toxic bubble maker producing hydrogen sulfide


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## Fishboy93

These DSB's seem very controversial.... Anyway NitrIte is 0, Ammonia .25, NitrAte is down to 10. The chaeto is in and it came with some live sand and rubble rock..


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## leveldrummer

i would check your ammonia test kit... how long have you been up and running again? i get results of .25 am with some cheap kits sometimes, its hard to tell with some of them if it actually changed color or not.


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## Fishboy93

Had it running for about 1.5 weeks...it was .25-.5


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## leveldrummer

oh nevermind, thought it was running longer than that already. keep up the good work. and change your avatar to something salty, your a reefer now!


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## Fishboy93

Well, I've been away from my tank from 2 days but will see it tomorrow. Was talkin to my mom and she said that algae was all over. Any suggestions for a CUC? I can easily get nerite snails for basically nothing. What do you all use? How many would you suggest for my tank?


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## Fishboy93

Ammonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite are all at zero. Cycle over? Still need suggestions for a Clean up crew. My MH light bulb came and I got some chaeto. Pics:






















































The last pic is of some fuzzy thing that has been in my tank since the start but finally got a decent picture. Any clue of what it is?


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## CollegeReefer

I say go to etropical.com and do there build your own CUC. Pick out 60 bucks worth of snails, hermits, starfish, shrimp, and what ever else and you should be fine. 30 assorted snails and 10-20 hermits. Free shipping.


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## Fishboy93

For the CUC I came up with this:
2 Peppermint Shrimp
2 Emerald Crabs
5 Nassarius Snails
10 Astrae Snails
5 Cerith Snails
1 Queen Conch?
1 Serpent Star?

How does that sound? Dont really want to get into hermits because i've heard they kill each other. What do you think about the Queen Conch, Serpent Star, and Emerald crabs? Having a hard time reaching 60 bucks..


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## CollegeReefer

That sounds good. This is what i had in my 20gallon. I lost a few and added a few since i first started, but this was my orginal list.

1 Emerald Matrix Crab (For my bubble algae)
6 Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab
6 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
7 Nassarius Snail
7 Cerith Snail
10 Astraea Turbo Snail
1 Peppermint Shrimp
1 Jumbo Cerith snail (to bring it to 60 dollars)


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## CollegeReefer

I know how you feel about hermits, but i found that the Scarlet reef hermits are more peacefull then the dwarf blue legs. Some hermits are good because they eat anything that is left over from feed and such. I would add some.


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## Fishboy93

Okay, thanks so heres the list:

Nassarius Snail (BYO) $1.00 x 5 = $5.00 
Cerith Snail (BYO) $1.00 x 5 = $5.00 
Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab (BYO) $2.50 x 15 = $37.50 
Peppermint Shrimp (BYO) $2.50 x 2 = $5.00 
Emerald Crab (BYO) $3.75 x 2 = $7.50 

Subtotal: $60.00


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## CollegeReefer

I would say drop a few of the scarlet, maybe to 10 or 12 and buy some more snails. Also maybe drop one peperment and go with a serpent sea star. That is if you haven't already ordered.


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## Fishboy93

Okay soooo: 
Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab (BYO) $2.50 x 10 = $25.00 
Peppermint Shrimp (BYO) $2.50 x 1 = $2.50 
Emerald Crab (BYO) $3.75 x 2 = $7.50 
Serpent Sea Star (BYO) $4.50 x 1 = $4.50 
Astraea Turbo Snail (BYO) - Large $1.20 x 10 = $12.00 
Nassarius Snail (BYO) $1.00 x 7 = $7.00 
Cerith Snail (BYO) $1.00 x 7 = $7.00 
Subtotal: $65.50 
Good? Still havent bought...


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## CollegeReefer

looks good to me


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## leveldrummer

looks like a good list, dont go crazy with your cuc, some people suggest 1 snail per gallon, thats insane, the snails will keep your tank clean untill they all starve and die. your list looks good, i have about the same amount in a 120 and they do ok.


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## Fishboy93

Pic Update..Just thought I'd share:


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## leveldrummer

looks awesome fishboy!! whats under the veil?


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## k-dawg-

red mushroom, BTW the Xenia is growin like crazy


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## Fishboy93

yup its a mush i got. Hoping to get some more corals this weekend. I found 2 more feather dusters. Also, saw about 20 white specks/blobs on my glass. Im guessing snail eggs? Would they be cerith or nassarius?


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## Bear

way cool aquascape! cant wait ta see this thing filled with life!


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## CollegeReefer

Nice pom pom!


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## Fishboy93

Thanks everyone...Out of curiousity, does anyone dip there corals/fish before adding them? I'm mainly interested in the corals dipping. If you do can you tell me your procedure?


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## Fishfirst

I do an iodine dip before I add any corals to the tank...
I never really noticed much of a difference but when you have the dip lying around you might as well use it. Anyway... I just add it via the instructions to a 1 gallon pail, add sw from the tank... acclimate the corals to the tank water, then put them in the iodine dip... let them soak for about 5-10 minutes... then put them in the tank


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## vvolfe1

I dip everything. For less than $20 its not worth it to take the chance of putting some bug, parasite, bacteria, or fungus into your tank that you plan to fill with pretty things for them to eat. I started after my favorite zoos melted away to little spiders almost to small to see. I use reef dip and worm exit they seem to work well.


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## Fishboy93

Sorry for the delay...Some updates from the weekend:

























Anyone know what type of zoa's they are. Looks like two types....


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## leveldrummer

Fishboy93 said:


> Anyone know what type of zoa's they are. Looks like two types....


pics look awesome! as for the names, you can check zoaid.com, but dont take too much stock in zoa names, they will change color to suit their new home, so give it time.


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