# Would like some advice.



## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Alright, so I'm trying to get a tank started because in the fall of this year I will be going to a college that I will be dorming at. I would like to take a 10g fish tank along because I love animals and they will be the only animals I can have there. =)

So, my friend is in a huge marine biology program at UNC and she basically gives me all the advice I need, but she still doesn't know everything.

However, I had a tank started. (Crowntail betta, two bluefin tetras, two glofish.) It was great and everything was better than I could have imagined. My fish were active and so happy. Then, I bought a new fish (peppered cory) and put it in my tank. It killed my tank. It's been ridiculous for about 2 weeks now. It gave my fish ick/ich, and I got it to go away using melafix. (By the way, I returned that sick cory.)

Also, I had a filter at this point. Ever since day 1.

I read just about everything I could and I read that a way to kill off ich is to raise the temperature to about 84 degrees F and add aquarium salt. 

In the meantime, I had been using melafix as well as this ich fizzing tablet. 

Melafix actually did work. I did a water change and forgot to add in more meds that night and the ich came back worse than ever. So, since then I have bought a heater and my tank is at 84. I added aquarium salt according to directions. Two tablespoons. Now my betta has fin rot. I'm trying so hard to make him better. My other two fish that are in there are bottom feeders. Some albino (a cory maybe?) and then a type of cory, not sure which kind. The albino isn't really liking the water temp. He's very inactive but the other cory is great, he loves it. 

So, basically all day my betta lets himself get suctioned to the filter and just sits there and goes up for air when needed. My mom wants me to get rid of him and she will buy me a new one. I think I will euthinize him tonight (Using proper technique, so to say).

My other fish have no signs at all of ich. They are totally fine. It's just my betta that is having problems with it. I understand it affects the whole tank, but there are absolutely no white spots on my other two fish.

So, after I euthenize my betta, would it be alright to do a full 100% water change and just scoop my two fish into a fresh tank, just like new, as if they had come from the fish store?

If the fish show no signs of ich, will it transfer to the tank after I clean it all out (with very very hot water)?

Thanks for reading my essay. =)


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Also, my glofish died. Before they died behind their gills turned blood red, as if they were bleeding in their head region.

I do not have water stats, as I do not have a kit. I had normal tap water in there with water conditioner per directions... And then their meds which was melafix and the ich tablets.

Currently their filter is on (no carbon), there is an air pump, and a heater.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Melafix did NOT get rid of the ick. Don't even think that it did, because it didn't. Ick comes and goes on a cycle, and you just assumed that the melafix cured it when all it did was recede at coincidentally the same time.

before you do anything like start the tank all over again, get yourself some real ick medicine and try that. 
I see you already have the fizz-tabs. Ok, that's good. Let it work. All it takes is ONE single surviving ickie to start this mess all over again.

As you may have guessed by now, a second quarantine/hospital tank makes your life a lot easier. You can treat the fish in it before you put them into your main tank, and that way your main tank remains hassle-free.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

I have tried the fizz tabs THREE times after doing a water change after each tab, as it tells in the directions.

I would get a second quarantine tank up... But right now I have my water temperature at 84 and I have put two tablespoons of aquarium salt in. It seems to be working alright, I am going to begin lowering the temperature today and following the instructions someone else posted here about getting rid of ich.

I think I will just euthenize my betta. He has not eaten for the past 5 days and I know he won't start now. I'd rather see a happy healthy one that a sad dead one.

However, my bottom feeders are fine. I will put them in their own little quarantine tank and completely clean out my 10g.

However, when I start up my 10g again, should I add in a fizz tab just for security measures?

I dunno, what can I do to make the best of this?

The lesson that I learned was to never buy fish from the local store and to go to petsmart instead. =)

Thanks for the help.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

if you decide to euthanize him, please look up the humane method of using clove oil.

also, if/when you restock your tank, please pay attention to the fact that schooling fish need to be kept in schools. that includes glofish (genetically-engineered zebra danios) your blue tetras, and the peppered cory. all of those fish should be kept in groups of at least 6. yes, that severely limits what you can put in the tank, but it's worth it to keep them happy. 

no offense, but marine biology and fishkeeping are a mile apart.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2008)

Why would you euthanize a fish because it hasn't eaten in 5 days? Do you know how long fish can go without eating?
Try to combat the ich the proper way before euthanizing a fish. Euthanization is a last resort and you're hardly there yet.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh, I read 3 days is like the max.

My mom keeps nagging at me that he looks nasty and his life sucks etc.

I will continue the ick treatment with aquarium salt as well as adding melafix, as he is getting fin rot.... Even though I have been using melafix for the past week or so. =\


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That's because melafix is a nice preventive tonic, but a lousy cure.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Are there any fin rot medicines you could reccommend me?


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

I will post pictures soon.

I thought I'd add that I change about 25% of the water like every 2-3 days. Is this helping or hurting?


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Here are my pictures.

Quick update first.

I am on day 6 of the ick treatment. My water is at 84 and I am just waiting to see what happens.

The albino died. I figured he would, he hasn't been active and hasn't been eating. My cory, however, is still very active and eating very well.

I have a picture of him so if anyone knows the exact kind he is, i'd love to know.

And I've got pictures of my betta's tail. (Yes, I realize he is stuck on the filter but he is not dead. He just does this all day long now that he's sick =( )

Oh, here is my aquarium. Should I add more plants to it once everyone is healthy? (I took my rock out because I read they suck up the meds.)

I'm not sure if fish like it crowded with plants or open with space to move. I also need to get some little ceramics. Can you paint them as long as you wash it off with water, or is the paint going to eventually get into the water?

http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1017zl1.jpg

Here's Gary, the sick betta. It doesn't show in the picture, but at the ends of his tail it's whitish, so I'm assuming it's fin rot. Tell me if you think otherwise. (I've been doing water changes like every other day until the ick treatment, then I just started following that.)

And here's my cory.

http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fish005editedpf8.jpg

Again, thanks for your help. I thought my friend in marine biology would help me but obviously she has no idea what she's doing herself! So sorry I'm so poorly knowledged. It's a bit harder to get started than I thought. =\


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Hm, the betta never made it into that post. Let's try again.

Here's Gary.

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fish003jr0.jpg

(by the way, when I click on these links, it's loading really slow. Not sure if that's the site or my computer or just the whole thing in general, sorry. =\)


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

i'd get a breeder net or something, because it CAN'T be good for him to be stuck to the filter like that! very stressful. when my betta was sick, i put him in my fishnet and then closed the lid on the handle, so he could rest in that and not have to struggle to get to the surface to breathe. but he died anyway


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh, good idea. Thanks a lot. I'll try that out and we'll see what happens.

Thanks for your help


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

My small update... My betta seems a bit more happy. I put food in there but he didn't eat it. =\ I think this is like day 6 of no eating. The cory is still doing great. =)


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

Just make sure that when you change the water, you account for the medication you're taking out . I'd stop using the Melafix, as TOS said. It's not the best for labarynth fishes, in my opinion. For fin rot, I'd treat with Maracyn I & II. Sounds like you have a compromised aquarium to me, e.g., wasn't the cleanest initially. Good luck.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

alright, thanks.

And it was clean initially... it was brand new. New water, new supplies, everything was new. Unless somehow in aquarium terms that's backwards or something.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, it is kind of backwards. From what I gather, I don't think your tank was cycled. The water can be fresh from the tap, but that doesn't mean it's "good" for the fish. Obviously you have to treat it, cycling it is a part of making your tank stable and safe for your fish. In this case, your fish became vulnerable to a number of problems because it was too much for the system to handle.


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## Blackbeard (Jan 19, 2008)

I'd also be careful about how often you're changing the water. When nothing's wrong, you don't want to be changing the water very often. In a 10-gallon tank, especially one that small, you don't want to keep changing the water. At most, maybe a gallon water change per-week, but no more than 25-30% water change at one time. Even with all of the water treatments, you need a degree of balance/consistancy. As one who was in your shoes not too long ago, slow down a bit. I know it's hard to be patient, but positive changes aren't always immediate. 
RE: decorations... Do NOT paint your own ceramics!!! (Not yelling, just stressing the point).  The only stuff you want to put in with fish are things that are pre-made for them. Even if the paint doesn't wash off in the water, it doesn't mean it's harmless. When you buy decorations from the fishstore or petsmart, make sure you wash them very well with warm water. (No chemicals/cleaning supplies). 
Good luck! You're doing your research, which is good. Just keep it up. Experience will be your best teacher. 
Sending love to Gary!!! I sincerely hope he pulls through. 
-Megan


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

there's nothing wrong with doing a weekly 30% water change in a 10-gallon tank, especially if it's fully stocked.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Right now I've only got two fish in it. I've had the tank ever since December 26th... However I did like a 2/3rds water change oh..... Two weeks ago? Probably wasn't great.

However. I'd like some opinions on some products I bought. They are not opened and I've got my reciept... I won't use them until I've got some opinions. =)

I bought BettaFix:

http://www.petco.com/product/10673/Aquarium-Pharmaceuticals-Splendid-Betta-BettaFix-Remedy.aspx

Has anyone used this? It says it's good for fin and tail rot and promotes rapid re-growth yaddi yadda. Thumbs up or down? Is it okay if my cory is in with this stuff or do I need to separate them?

I also bought API Stress zyme. I could not find that biospira, I did see cycle but I was advised against that either in this topic or my one on the beginner board.

I also bought AmQuel+:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...F0-0CC5-DC11-BE2A-001422107090&utm_source=cse

And it says it removes all that stuff that you cans see in the picture.

Thumbs up or down?

I will edit this if I find a response via people in the chat room.

Thanks for the help.

And yes, I figured you couldn't paint the stuff.. Just thought I'd make sure I couldn't get creative.  I'll save my creativity for something else perhaps


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

hmm. the bettafix i've heard is basically just melafix, in a different concentration. check the active ingredients against each other.

amquel+ is what i use for new water for waterchanges. it's a good water conditioner, but i wouldn't bother adding it to the tank, it'd only hinder the cycle.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

On the back it says it doesn't. False info?


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Bettafix is the same as melafix... Thanks for telling me that one =)

I'll go find the other stuff recommended.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Sorry for so many posts in a row.

I have new pictures of my betta. I have removed him from the tank and I am using meracyn I and II on him. I have the heater in there too, as I am finishing the ick treatment with that.

My cory still shows no signs of illness at all. No white spots, no fin rot, no redness. His "whiskers" are beginning to grow in. So cute, but kinda yucky. =P
He is completely active and eating great. I did put some meracyn I and II into the 10g to kill whatever might be in there...

The betta on the other hand is getting thinner by the day. Still just floating at the top of the water... And his ick is back, I'm guessing. It pretty much went away but now there are white spots on his fins only, not his body (Not sure why this is). His temp is 84... Tomorrow is when I start water changes (still following this ick treatment). I have meracyn I and II in his water.... Melafix and aquarium salt as well.

Also, I have added stress zyme to the 10g... However, I think I'm going to dump that tomorrow and re-do it and let it cycle for a week.

Here are the betta pictures.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1054vn6.jpg

Very thin =(

http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1055iv3.jpg

Tail.

http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1056fx6.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1057jc3.jpg


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Amquel is similar to ammolock. I have phoned Ammolock and they say that the product does NOT inhibit the cycling process-- it just makes the ammonia into a non toxic form. usually you can add a bit to the tank water every 48 hours to neutralize the ammonia toxicity as well as doing water changes if you are cycling with ffish.
I have cycled 7 tanks in the last year and have not lost any fish during the process. mainly because I do fishless cycle before adding the fish. there is usually a small mini cycle again when you add the fish but it can be handled easily with plenty of water changes and testing of levels.
I also use Ammo lock as a water conditioner and have for the past 5 yearts. It works great for me and helps in those times when the water company messes with the amount of chemicals they add to the water supply. 
You can always email or phone any of the companies that make fish keeping products and ask them questions.
next time you buy chemicals try Seachem Prime-- it is an excellent product and protects against ammonia and nitrites.
I am a bit alarmed by you saying you are going to dump the 10 gallon and let it cycle for a week. What are you cycling with? 
Cycling takes at least 4-6 weeks!! In order not to damage any more fish you can cycle with fish food or a piece of meat in a little bag dangled in the water.
I say to contain it because it can make quite a mess in the gravel.
You will need test kits for sure during the cycling process.
Read up about how to do it.
I know you want to see fish in the tank but it is best to go slow and do a fishless cycle. Then you will not harm the fish.
If there are no fish in the tank then the ick will basically all die off. ICk is thought to be in the tank all the time anyhow and it is only when the fish are stressed that the ick can take hold of them and be an aweful nuisance.
Nice fresh water is the best treatment for bettas with tail rot. Do not use too many drugs- fish diseases are notoriously hard to diagnose.Melafix is somewhat oily- so do not use too much of it. It can coat the bettas gills as well as put a slick surface on the water. That inhibits oxygen exchange.
There is lots to learn for sure.:console:


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

I was told either earlier in this topic or in the one on the beginner aquariums board that I can use something called Biospira and cycle it for a week. I bought something called stress-zyme made by API, which I guess is the same-ish thing. I can't find biospira at my local pet store. However, I will re-read the one week cycle post and see exactly what the person said.

My tank has been up and running for almost a month... So has it cycled yet, even though there have been fish and whatnot in it? Right now there is just one cory... Would it just be better to leave him there for a few weeks and add fish slowly after that?

By the way, (I think I already said this) I added the directed amount of the stress-zyme. I guess it's bacteria to help with the biological cycling. I also added the Amquel plus.

There are so many medications in the tank right now that I feel like it's best to dump it and let it cycle.

There's the Maracyn I and II. Pimafix. Melafix. Fizzing ick tablets... And I think that's all. But it's all there in unknown quantities... I mean, I followed the directions on how much to use.. But then I did water changes and added more after and yaddi yadda. It's been going on for 2 weeks or so so I have no idea about the amounts of stuff in there. I kinda just want a fresh start.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I can't get Biospira up here in Canada either. Wish we could!
I would run some charcoal in the filter for a couple of days-- that will remove most of the meds, do a 25% water change and leave the tank alone. It is possible that the meds have killed off a lot of the bacteria you want anyway. If you go fishless cycle, can you take the cat fish tpo the store and get them to take it back. If not I would be letting everyhting sit as it is and check my ammonia and nitrite levels daily.
I dunno about the Stress zyme if it works or not. If you can get hold of some hornwort or hygrophilia( plants) it will suck up some of the ammonia for you and the cycling process is a lot easier.
Bio spira has to be kept in the cooler as it is actually live bacteria ready to go. The other stuff is just kept at room temp- whatever that happens to be. It would be nice to think that it works! there again if you add too much it can die and make the whole process worse instead of better.
Most of us donèt use charcoal unless we want to remove meds,or clarify the water. As previously stated it only has a few days life span and then it releases its toxins or whatever back into the tank and defeats the purpose you put it in for.
If you get the tank cycled you can start tinkering around with what you use in the filters. A lot of us just throw in some bio beads and a couple slabs of foam and just rinse every month or so. It cuts down on the cost a lot and also it gives you something to throw in the next tank you get to kick start the cycling process.;-) 
let us know how you are doing.If you have had fish in the tank it must have done a bit of cycling, but the antibiotics may have killed the good bacteria.
:?: Do you have test kits . We need to see numbers to continue to help you!


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't have a test kit... As I need to stop spending and get a job first. At the store they are $30 but online they are $15, so I will probably order one online.

Small update, but an exciting one.

The cory is still alone in his tank. I just did a 20% water change... Added charcoal to his filter.... And he's fine. Still just as spazzy as before =) No signs of any illness. He's still eating great.

Gary the betta... He ate! Two pellets only, but he ate!! I have also done a 20% water change in his little bowl (It's about 1/2 a gallon or so... Probably a bit more than that... Closer to a gallon. Not that it matters. He only sits in one spot still =\)... He still has the heater, so his temp is at 82. I added in like 3 more salt granules... 'cause he's still got a bit of ick on his tail fin. I also added more of the maracyn I and II for his fin rot. It actually is beginning to look a bit better. =)

And yeah.. That's about all.

I only added maybe 3/4 of a packet of maracyn I and II to the 10g. Would that have killed all of the good bacteria?

Hopefully gary will be better by Saturday. If not, I have run out of all options possible. =\


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

what i meant by hinders the cycle is that it will mess up your test readings, so it may not indicate that there is ammonia in the tank when in fact there is.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

hmm, when I use the Ammolock i still get the ammonia reading but I trust that the product has changed it to ammonium as it says it would( non toxic state)Unfortunately the test kits can't seem to differentiate.
i was told that if i used Prime I would get a 'normal" reading but It still registers that there is ammonium present. Very annoying and confusing at times.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

well, we'll see. The cory is still doing fine. I bought him a bunch of new foods today that Cory_Lover recommended... We're going on week 4 in the cycling so hopefully he'll make it through.

My betta is doing AWESOME! I'm so proud. I told my mom I could rescue him and I did. =) Now his fins just need to grow back. =( I'm debating on whether or not to stick him in his own bowl, perhaps in my room or something of that sort... Just 'cause he was hit really hard with the ick while the other fish weren't... So I'd rather just have him safe on his own. He's very perty =)

And, I also wanted to get some fancy guppies... And I don't think Mr. Gary would approve of that. What do you guys think about guppies in a 10g? Bad idea?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

guppies will fit in nicely in a community tank DEPENDING on the betta. Some are aggressive and some are not. I keep female bettas in my community tanks because I have seen guppies torment the male bettas by ripping at the tails. Also tetras seem smitten with the fancy betta tails.
Some bettas will attack fancy male guppies. All depends on the personality of the fish in question.guppies do vwry well in a 10 gal. They do prefer to be in a group of 3 -4.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

hm... I dunno, when fish attack eachother is it like a cat fight or will they just nip, swim away, nip again? I don't really wanna deal with an angry gary. He seems wonderful so far. His name is Gary because he's just... chill like a grandpa. Hence the grandpa name. haha. He sits back and relaxes and watches all the other fish.

I dunno... Definitely need a new job first. These fish drain my bank account.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

A few guppies in a 10 is fine, but you do need to be prepared for a population explosion if you have females. If you get a second tank to raise fry, you can often take them back to a LFS and trade for food or meds, but if you leave in the main tank you can get overcrowding issues.


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