# Minimum tank size for angelfish?



## Guest

I'm interested in an angelfish for my 40 tall. A dwarf species, either a flame or a coral beauty. On the internet, it says that a 30 gallon is a minimum tank size. But after looking up the dimensions of a 30 gallon, I discovered that my tank is 6 inches short of having the same length as a regular 30. I was wondering if this 6 inches really matters...Would my tank be too small for a dwarf angel? It's 30 inches long btw.

Andrew


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## Guest

I personally would not put a dwarf angel in either a 30 or 40 gallon, with the exception of maybe the cherub pygmy angel. IMO, a dwarf angel needs at least a 55 gallon tank as they are fairly active and territorial.


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## Guest

That's the answer I was expecting 

I just wanted to double check.

You mentioned a Pygmy Cherub Angel....Would a single on of these be suitable for my tank?? sccording to the internet, they only get about 2-3 inches long...I also like their colors better than a coral beauty's, but not much can out do a flame angel...:lol:


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## Guest

I can't tell you if it will be suitable because I don't know what else will be in the tank. Just going by size, yes you could keep one in a 40 gallon.


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## leveldrummer

personally i think you could keep a flame or a cherub (coral beauties seem to get a bit larger in my experience) with 2 or 3 other small fish in a 40, maybe a couple more if your picky and its a fish only, but you have to be real careful of overstocking a salty tank.


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## Damon

You have to factor in the tank is a 40 tall. Not 40 long. I'm not sure if even the dwarfs would fit in there.


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## Guest

Thanks damon....Like I said earlier, this tank is only 20 inches long, not 36 or however long a regular 40 is. 

As far as stocking goes, I'm planning on some fish,m as well as inverts. Crabs, snails, a brittle star, and feather dusters. For fish, well, I'm still deciding....ATM, I'm really interested in royal grammas, which should be fine in my tank, given enough hiding spaces, and hawkfish, but I've heard that hawkfish eat crabs, shrimps, etc, but I've also heard that they don't. Any input about harkfish?


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## Guest

Hawkfish are predatory and do eat shrimp and other small crustaceans. Sometimes you may find a hawk that wont make a meal out of your inverts and sometimes you'll just be providing it a snack. It's pretty much hit or miss, but it also depends on the species of hawkfish you're looking at.


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## TheOldSalt

Cherubs are coral-munchers, but otherwise okay, and will fit in a 40 tall. That's the only angel I would dare put into a 40 tall, except maybe a resplendent, but as expensive as those are, I wouldn't feel good about it.

Hawkfish are named that for a reason. Vicious little suckers.

Grammas are a very good choice for a tall tank. They live their lives going up & down anyway.
Hmm... you know, with a little effort you could probably build a display with Grammas and Jawfish. You'd have to keep them out of each others' way by building hidey-holes high up in the tank for the grammas and holes on the bottom for the jawfish, but if it worked it would look really cool. That's normally hard to do, but with a tall tank it might work just fine.


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## Guest

Coral munchers are okay by me, as long as they won't eat snails, crabs, stars, or bristle worms.

That's good to hear, that grammas would be good in my tank. I kinda figured that jawfish would be a good choice as well, and I am actually interested in these, just not in the DSB that they require. Maybe I'll work something out.

Getting back to the gramma thing. Aren't Grammas and basslets aggressive? I know they're aggressive within their own species, but is it to others as well? For example, would a royal gramma, black cap basslet, a golden dottyback, and a strawberry pseudochromis all get along in the same tank, given enough hidyholes, etc.?


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## TheOldSalt

No, you couldn't keep them far enough apart in a little 40 gal. They don't actually fight much, but they get in each other's faces constantly, and there would never be any peace. The strawberry can probably mix with any of them, though, especially if it's tankraised.


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## Guest

So you sayin, a strawberry pseudochromis, some other basslet/gramma, and a jaw fish or 2?

What about the sand bed? how deep does it have to be for the jawfish? Also, if I do go with a DSB, I'll need some stuff to go through the sand and mix it up, like sand sifting stars and stuff. What do you recomend?


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## TheOldSalt

You don't really need a DSB. Just put a 6-inch piece of PVC pipe into a little pile of rocks, with the bottom end stuck into whatever substrate you do have.

As for sand-stirring critters, well, this is where the whole DSB concept kinda breaks down. It's a long story, but the short version is that sand-stirring is a big no-no with a DSB, yet stirring critters are still commonly considered essential. It's a mess that I'd rather not get into since it usually starts a fight. However, since you asked, my own recommendation is to avoid a DSB altogether and just use little rockpiles. On the other hand, tall tanks are good for DSBs since they leave so much room left over, and DSBs do work just fine despite everything that's wrong with them. As for critters, use animals which don't burrow deep. Stick to shallow-scooters like olive snails, serpentstars, etc... . You want that top inch aerated, but no more.


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## Ice

Can you provide a pic / diagram of 6 inch PVC pipe in pile of rocks ? I'm trying to get an idea how it can be done. Thanks. What a great idea for a those who want a jawfish. I've been wanting to add one to my wish list for my future SW tank.


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## Guest

I was thinking about just sticking some PVC into the rock work. how large of a piece of PVC should I use. as in how wide should i be?


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## Guest

I re-read your post TOS, and some how I missed the part about the little rock piles. 

What I was planning on doing as far as aquascaping, was either....

1. A largeish rock pile in the middle, with some smaller "boulders" off to the side. Along witha little bit of rubble scattered around the main pile. That would give it a kind of "mountain that collapsed" look to it.

OR

2. 2 medium sized rock piles on either side of the tank, with some long, flat pieces of rock connecting them. Like to piles of rock, connected by a bridge. This one, like the last, would also have LR rubble scattered around, but not as much as th first idea, and yould not have smaller rocks around the tank, so this"mountain" would still look intact.


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## TheOldSalt

1.5 to 2 inch diameter pipe would be fine, 1.5 probably better. In fact, putting a little elbow piece on it with a little 3-inch extension would let the fish have a place to lie down to sleep inside the pipe.

When I said 6-inch pipe, I meant LENGTH, not diameter, to clear up any confusion. The diameter is only 1.5 inches. The whole pipe is tucked unside a rockpile with only the end being exposed near the top side of the pile. Ideally, although it would look a bit weird, maybe, unless you fixed it, you'd put a little dish of some sort, like a plastic coffee can lid or something, on top of the pile with the hole sticking just barely through it, and you'd fill that dish with some sand. Jawfish would prefer to have a hole with sand around it, you see, and really prefer to have a few little gravel-sized bits of rocks around the hole for decoration. You'll see them frequently re-arranging the tiny rubble near their holes until they get it just like they want it. 

Grammas will use such pipes without the sand and like it better that way, while jawfish will prefer the sand.


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## Guest

Okay...At the lfs I work at, we had a few jawfish in stock, yellow headed, as well as blue spotted or something, maybe it was pearl, I'm not sure, alls I know is that they were jawfish...lol...Anyway, They exavated burrows inderneath a rock intheir tanks, So instead of putting the PVC opening near the top of the rock pile, could I put it underneath the rock, semi buried by sand, then put my rock pile on top of it? That way it would be near the sand as will. And your right about all the re-arrnging they do...lol...Ours were always moving stuff around near their borrows...lol. I'll be sure to get some small pieces of LR for the jawfish.

How many jawfish for the tank? Are they communal, really aggressive? a male and female would be nice, is there a good way to sex them?

Thanks alot, I really appreciate your help.

Andrew


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## TheOldSalt

No good way to sex them unless they're breeding, unless you really know jawfish.
Putting the pipe near the bottom is a great idea.
They're scrappy and territorial, so you wouldn't want many in a single tank. 2 can work if you keep them on opposite ends.

The more I rethink this, the more this doesn't sound like such a great idea. I'm sure it can work and be way cool, but not 100% sure.


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## Guest

Ever since you suggested the gramma and jawfish tank, I've been thinking the same thing. But I have been compiling a list of fish that I like. Actually, there's only 3 or 4 on it atm...lol

I would deffaintly like either a royal gramma, or a strawberry psuedo. Deffaintly. But I'll have to have quite a bit of rockwork, seeing as how grammas are aggressive. I would also like a yellow headed jawfish, just a lone one. I'll give him his tube and stuff. Those 2 for sure. But I need something else. I was thinking a pair or a trio of firefish. Just I'm worried about the gramma beating on the firefish. What do you think?

Edit: I'm also thinking about the angelfish still. but I'll prolly jsut wait till I get a larger tank for him. but it is still a possibility.


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## TheOldSalt

Firefish would be great. They'd swim midwater while the others would stay near their holes, and they'd have no problems staying out of each other's way.


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## Guest

awesomeness....I love firefish...


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## Guest

Andrew, do you have your supplies all ready and the costs firgured out? It seems like you are a little focused on stock right now. I'm just wondering if you have the really important start-up stuff gathered.


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## Guest

i do not have it all gathered yet, I know what I'm going to buy, but I haven't bought it yet. Yes, I have the cost figured out. and yes, I am still reading books, and more books, and more books.


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## Ice

and more books, and more books ......


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## flamingo

Didn't we already go through your stock? xD


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## Guest

Ice said:


> and more books, and more books ......


yup...that too 

yes, kinda dylan, but, well, you know me, always changing my mind and stuff


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