# sick guppies, tried everything



## gupsmith (Nov 6, 2009)

I have had 2 male guppies that I got from petsmart about 6 months ago and they have been doing great.I bought some new trios from a breeder and had them shipped to me and they are all sick.The first day they looked fine, then they looked clamped and shimmied and then they got what looked to me like fungus on their fins and then ick.I have treated them for 3 weeks now with different products to no avail but they are all still alive.I have tried fungus cure by jungle, quick cure, coppersafe and ick cure from mardel and ick cure liquid with formalin and malachite green.I removed carbon and all my live plants to a different tank.I raised the temp. in the tank to 82 degrees and have been doing partial water changes daily.The guppies are not eating very well.The only other thing in the tank is a cory cat and he is fine.I also have noticed stringy clear poops coming out of the sick fish,the fungus appears gone.They all just float at the surface of the water and shimmy.The ick seems to not be going away and one female has cloudy looking eyes but the original 2 guppies I had are still just fine.This makes no sense.Here are my specs: 

ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: below 5
temp. now 82, was 78
alkalinity: registers high
PH: 7.8


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Keep up with what you are doing. Maybe try some aquarium salt. Fungus and ick can both be caused by dirty water, so make sure to change the water regularly.

Also, dont spend money on testing alkalinity. It is actually measured on the pH scale. The pH scale goes like this:
Under 7.0 pH - Acidic
7.0 ph - Neutral - Pure water
Above 7.0 pH - Basic, Alkaline
Also, each number is 10 times more concentrated than the previous. For instance a 9.0 pH is 10 times more alkaline than an 8.0 pH. A 10.0 pH is 100 times more alkaline than an 8.0 pH. A 5.0 pH is 10 times more acidic than a 6.0 pH.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

ph and alkalinty are actually two very different things.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I don't get it. Everything that I have ever read, been taught, or looked up suggests that I am right. If fact the dictionary's definition of Alkaline is:

1. Of, relating to, or containing an alkali.
a. Having a pH greater than 7.
b. Having a relatively low concentration of hydrogen ions.

2. Having a pH value greater than 7.

All of these definitions suggest that it can be measured on the pH scale. 1a says that it has a low concentration of hydrogen ions, which are measured on the pOH scale, which is just an exact inverse of the pH scale.

Wow, I just realized, I actually did pay attention in chemistry class 

Now if you believe me to be wrong about it, I would actually really like you to explain how alkalinity works, because I wouldn't want to be wrong about it in the future.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Well you haven't tried anti-parasite meds such as Metronidazole. Medicated food is worth a shot for the poo symptom. 

alkalinity is often used for high pH (alkaline) or as a hardness scale. Its confusing. 7.8 and hard water should be great for guppies. 

How long did you treat ich. It can take 14 days or more of constant treatment and some ich is med-resistant. It may be time to try the salt cure, but separate the coriy before adding salt.


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## gupsmith (Nov 6, 2009)

the ick appears to be gone but I noticed one large female snakeskin guppy has two tiny threadlike or hairlike things hanging out of her gill flaps.I am assuming it is some type of parasite or worm? apparently the ick meds and copper dont help this issue.Now I also notice several males look very bloated in the belly and I havent seen them going poo at all.What type of medicated food should I try? I have been doing my water changes every other day of 25%.I did add some saltwater that I freshly mixed for my reef tank, about 2 teaspoons of it.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

try some antiparasitic medication for flukes, worms .
if using prazipro please note that it is not to be used with any other medication in the water.
if you don't have bottom feeders/loaches you can use Livebearer for parASITES. aLSO THE METRONIDAZOLE AS MENTIONED.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Alkalinity is what MAKES water have a high pH.
Alkalinity is the water's ability, as it were, to maintain it's pH against the factors working to lower it.

When you test pH, you test pH & the effect of alkalinity, but you aren't testing alkalinity at all.

Clout is a good choice of med for your parasite problems as well.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> When you test pH, you test pH & the effect of alkalinity, but you aren't testing alkalinity at all.


Wouldn't testing the direct result of an alkali be just as good as testing for the alkali itself?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That depends on why you'd want to test for it in the first place, but overall, the answer is ... nope. 
Many factors besides alkalinity can affect the pH of water at any given time, so testing pH to get alkalinity is a wild guessing game at best. For example, maybe you have next to no alkalinity at all, BUT the tank is supersaturated with oxygen when you happen to test it. You'd get a pH well in the higher range, but assuming the alk was high based on that pH would be a big mistake, and one which might bite you on the butt later should you lose a pump or something, resulting in a rapid pH crash you can't explain.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

The term alkalinity is used in two different ways. Water with a PH above 7.0 is called alkaline water, as opposed to acid water. Also carbonate hardness is known as alkalinity. It is a bit confusing but as old salt said... two totally different (but related) things.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Common anti-parasite meds: 

Metronidazole as a powder, you can apply it to food (frozen brine works good) or use it in the water. Seachem sells it in a little vial.

Jungle ant-parasite food (contains metronidazole). Easy to use but its big pieces so little fish will need it smashed (its really hard).

Jungle anti-parasite fizz-tabs. Contains multiple meds. Easy to dose, discolors water.

Prazi-Pro: use in the water, liquid, strong so you don't need much, needs to be measured accurately (can use a cough syrup cup)

For internal parasite that cause belly and poo symptoms, medicated food is best, but since sick fish don't eat well, treating the water also is a good idea. As already mentioned be very careful when mixing meds in the water and read all the fine print.


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## gupsmith (Nov 6, 2009)

*returning water to normal, dropsy evident*

Well, they are all still alive but I have injured them by overmedicating them.Now the albinos have dropsy.Everything I have read about it is bad.The scales on their sides are pineconing and the male and female are bloated.They are however, eating well and very active, they are not acting ill.I have decided to just stop all meds., did a total tank clean and full water change, put my carbon and plants back in and let the gups just get used to my water and let what happens happen.I lowered my temp back to 78.One snakeskin female gave birth to 15 fry in the floating java moss 2 days ago and all are eating and doing great.The snakeskins were never medicated like the albinos and they do not have dropsy but they still have the ick.All the fish are eating and swimming to the front of the tank to greet me every time I look at them so maybe they could come out of it.:fish:


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