# Ich - what can it withstand?



## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

*sigh* Somehow Finnegan got ich. I have to wonder if it was from the plant that I originally bought along with him, and didn't know better to quarantine. For that matter, he could have had it already, because it was freezing cold in the store, and from what I've read of ich, it moves very slowly at low temperatures. I have been keeping up with regular water changes, so his bowl has never been dirty.

Sunday night is when I first noticed the white spots. It was 2am and I ran out to Wal-Mart to look for QuickCure, based on a recommendation I found on a breeder website, and some other informational sites. (I don't usually patronize walmart, but they're the only ones open at 2am with fish meds!) Anyway, I followed the instructions and of course, now all of my water is blue. Oh well.

I also placed a heater in the bowl and raised the temp to approximately 80. Unfortunately, this is not a heater I can control the thermostat on, so I just have to accept whatever it gives me.

Fast forward to today... most of his white spots are gone, so I figured the little beasties are in the phase where they drop off into the gravel. Even though the medication is in the bowl, I couldn't stand the idea of thousands of them hatching and trying to make a meal on my fish. So here is what I did...

1. I boiled the bowl. Literally. I boiled a pot of water, and dumped it into the bowl, making sure to stir up the gravel really well.

2. I made sure every tool that I used (cups, nets, etc) at any point in Finn's bowl were first rinsed with super hot (though not boiling) water, and then thoroughly dried.

3. I placed fresh water in the bowl, of the same temperature that the water was when I took it out of the bowl.

4. I placed the directed amount of Quick Cure back in the bowl, and put Finn back in there.


Was this a good course of action? 
Can Ich survive boiling?
Can Ich survive being dried out?

I've read many websites at this point, looking for a definitive answer. There seems to be some conflicting info out there. Can anyone provide a clearer picture of the fastest way from Ich to no-Ich? And how to not spread it? For example, I used a gravel vac on Finn's bowl the other day. Do I need to boil it? Or will simply drying it out be enough to kill the parasites?

Also, I ran across one website that said Ich does not lay dormant in tanks. It has to be brought in on something. Yet other sites claim it can lay dormant for a long time. I'm rather confused.

Thanks for any thoughts you can give.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

And gosh darn it, I forgot to mention... bless his little heart, he is such a jolly fish. He built the biggest bubblenest yet, on Monday. I couldn't believe it. He was rubbing himself on anything he could find, yet he still found the energy to blow bubbles. I am continually amazed by the spunk and personality of this dude.

I know this isn't pertinent to Ich. I just felt like sharing.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't know what ich can survive or what it rides in on, but I've had fish that have been alone for 2 years in a with no outbreaks get ich when a heater failed. I like what you did but in your situation I would keep treating with QuickCure for 10 days changing the water every other day to keep the dose from getting too high. Esp. if the fish seem to be fine. If he shows any adverse reaction to the meds (breathing hard, not eating, etc.), I'd try the salt cure instead (but you need higher temp.) Cleaning the nets was excellent. Some people store or dip their nets in a methylene blue or bleach solution and rinse before use. It defeats the purpose of quarantine if you give disease another vector.


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

the ich parasite is in almost every tank...when the fish are stressed by disease or get a chill, that's when it manifests itself on them. It is easily cured by many methods, salt and higher temps, and Quick Cure , being two of them.
http://www.nunnie.com/ick.html
http://www.fishlore.com/Articles/CuringIch.htm
those articles may help or google if you need more info
Bob


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

I just don't know what disease could have been in the bowl. I have religiously done water changes and the temp of the house has constantly been 76-77 degrees. I like it hot in my house. My only thought is that it may have come from the plant I bought when I got him. It came from a tank with fish in it. (Yes, I know now, NOT to buy plants from tanks with fish in them!) And perhaps it just took this long to manifest... I'm just not sure.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2007)

Like BV77 already said, ich basically lives everywhere. You just don't see it unless its infecting a fish. The white spots you see are not actually the parasite, just the irritation it causes on the fish's skin.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

I find this fascinating, because there are some sites which dispute the statement "Ich is everywhere." They say it is myth. 

This site, for example
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

Is this basically one of those ongoing debates that doesn't have a clear cut answer?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I like the second link. Come to think of it, I've never had ich in the same tank twice. Its good to know that my normal practice of emptying my quarantine tank and letting it dry will also take care of ich and that any i get will come in with the fish.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Ich is a nasty little bug, but it is relatively easy to cure and get rid of perminantely if you use the correct dosage on the meds and if that dosage isn't sucked up by things such as silicone, plants, gravel, decore, ect. Unfortunately everytime you add something to the tank, such as a plant, fish, invertebrate, you have a chance of adding the parasite right back into the tank. Boiling most certainly will kill ich and any other good and bad organism in the tank. However, if you put the plant back in the tank after this you still have the infection since you probably kept the roots moist. Continue with the medication.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

Currently, I have all the plants quarantined in their own bucket of regular tapwater. Will leaving the plants in there for two weeks get rid of the Ich? Can Ich live without a fish host? Is there anything else I can put in with the plants, that won't kill them but will get rid of the Ich?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

According to your link, ich will die if it goes a whole life cycle with no fish. But it takes longer at lower temps, so give it 2 week in the bucket.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I'd give it longer... in saltwater (which we are dealing with a different type of disease altogether but I think it has some relavance) it takes about 6 weeks for the parasite to die. I think this would be a situation for TOS to include some info.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

Sorry, I'm not familiar with "TOS" ... what is it?


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2007)

TheOldSalt. He is a member here.

I would also leave them quarantined longer. I don't believe two weeks covers the full life-cycle of freshwater ich.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

I can leave the plants as long as need be. When Finn is cleared up, (I am going to treat him with the medicine for at least a full week at 80 degrees) I am going to do another full and thorough cleaning of his bowl, boil his gravel and decor, and I'll buy him a silk plant to keep him happy until his real plants can come back.

Thanks for the explanation on TOS


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Keep in mind that by boiling the gravel each time you are also loosing your beneficial bacteria, so your tank will be cycling and need to be looked after for that.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its a bowl--hes doing 100% changes anyway. Its not like a cycled tank.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

I know the beneficial bacteria died when I boiled the gravel, and I wasn't pleased about that. And yep, it's a bowl. I've read some info on cycling bowls, and I may try that. For now, I am most worried about killing the Ich.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2007)

Cycling is not so much an issue in bowls. As long as you are religious with your water changes, you will have no problem. How often are you doing them now?


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

About a half gallon a day (the bowl is a 2 gallon... so 25%), and 90% once a week.
I'm thinking to switching to 50% twice a week and 90% once a week. I would like to try cycling the bowl, once the ich fiasco is over.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Ich does lurk in most tanks, mainly because very few aquarists ever go to the trouble of keeping it out of their tanks.
There are about 7 species of "ich," each one a very different critter from the last.
Some of these you can eliminate in under a week, but some can last a month and a half. Some can even encapsulate themselves in a dormant state, which is a royal pain. However, that usually happens only under conditions which make it think the fish will be gone, so it's not generally a big problem.

You have two main options. The first is to provide the best possible tank conditions and hope for the best. This often works, surprisingly enough. I don't think it will work very well in a bowl, though.
The second is to treat with a few different methods for an extended period with each, about 2 weeks. Then you should have gotten rid of it for good. That's a bit extreme for a betta, though, especially when you consider that a betta you find in a store is already pretty old. It would be better to pick one good method and use it, and then provide the best conditions you can from then on to prevent further outbreaks.

_slowly_ Heating the water to 95F will get rid of most ick by itself in only several hours. That's not without it's own problems, of course, but I thought I'd mention it.

As for your water changes, as long as your source water stays the same, you can change large amounts every day just fine. The problems with large water changes happen when too long a time passes between them, thusly allowing the tank water to get too different from the source water.

Oh, that reminds me of yet another method you can use, especially since you're already planning to make a lot of water changes:
- get another bowl.
- every day, move the fish from one bowl to the other
- every day, wash out the empty bowl and refill

What will happen is that every day the fish will shed ripe ickies, and then leave. You'll then get rid of them by cleaning. Every day, the fish will lose more and more mature parasites, and these will not be replaced because the fish won't be around them anymore. In a few weeks the fish will be squeaky clean without the need for any meds.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

So perhaps the safest and most effective method of killing these things, is to finish out the medication treatment (Sunday night will be a full 7 days with the Quick Cure)

THEN... get a new bowl, and put him in it, switching back and forth between the two bowls for another week? Two weeks? Should I boil the contents of each bowl as I am cleaning them? It's not a problem for me to boil a pot of water and clean everything with it. (except the live plants of course... still not sure how to cure them)

I really, really want to kill the ich without subjecting him to weeks of meds. If I need to buy a new heater with a thermostat that goes up to 95, I can start looking for one. 95 degrees won't be harmful to him?

I also have aquarium salt. I do want to finish out the week of QuickCure (unless you think it is a bad idea?), since that is what I started with, but after that, I can do a secondary type of treatment.

Thanks so much for taking time to post a response.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

If you want to try the multi-bowl method, then you can go ahead and start it right away and quit the quickcure. Take the plant with the fish to clean it too, or, even better, just rinse it off and put it in a separate container for a month, rinsing and waterchanging once a week or so, after which it too will be spotless.

The temperature thing isn't a good idea for a bowl, since it's too small and unstable. Don't bother. Bettas can take 95, though, in case you're wondering, but it's not really a great idea.

You won't need salt or meds or anything with the multibowl method, but they couldn't hurt. You do need to keep th water in the high 70's to low 80's, though, to getthe maturation/dropoff going quickly. Don't go any higher than 82, though, as that can possibly result in hatch-outs faster than you can prevent, thusly ruining all your effort. The LAST thing you want, no matter what you do, is to have a big hatchout in that bowl where the betta is the only fish available for hundreds of swarmers.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

Thank you for the clear-cut directions. Will be stopping by the store to pick up a secondary bowl, tonight! My current heater seems to be keeping the water right at 80, so should work.

Much appreciated.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

Just curious... what do you guys do if you get an ich outbreak in a big tank? Obviously, it'd be pretty tough to swap tanks everyday... is that where the QuickCure comes in handy? Or the heating of the water to 95 degrees? Or perhaps the "salt" method I've read about where you add 1 tablespoon (or is it one teaspoon) of salt per gallon?


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2007)

95 is pretty extreme for most fish. I've only had freshwater ich outbreaks maybe once or twice and I brought the temp up to 86 and used QuickCure. The popular method is usually heat and aquarium salt.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I'll not have to deal with Ich in my 5 gallon, as I WILL be quarantining anything new for two weeks, before it gets to go in the water. And the 5 gallon stays at around 82 degrees, plus I put 1/4 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon in it, as a maintenance level.


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