# Disposition difference between VT, CT, HM, Delta?



## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

For a long time I always had veils, they were adult fish from little cups at the store. I currently have a couple but I got them as little guys, not from the store. They are pretty mellow. Mostly I have Deltas, several very different sets of spawn brothers. And one mean as heck tiny crowntail.

I thought he was young when I got him but he just never grew. Fish is crazy mean. Has been spending his days tormenting this BIG momma Black Moor which I would probably need two hands to pick up.That started when I had to rearrange the tank but he has had other targets of his rage. And he eats fish which don't even really fit in his mouth (I discovered this early).

Some of my deltas have been a little cranky, more needing to be super dominant than anything else. One just goes around and glares at his tankmates.

Is it my imagination that some forms are more (or less) aggressive than others?

violet


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

I've heard many people say CTs & PKs are a lot more aggressive. I only have one pair of each so I really can't say from my own experience.


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## Echo (Apr 23, 2006)

I've heard the same ^. I've also read that the color red betta is more aggressive. It's not recommended to keep bettas with goldfish because bettas are tropical and goldfish are coldwater fish.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

Christine, you know that little black/copper/gold? He is the best little fish! He was in a floating trap to test his dispostion. Of course at first he lunged at anything that moved. That passed quickly. I don't know how it happened but a couple of very small danios got IN his pen but he ignored them. I don't think he could have swallowed them but he should have tried. So I let him out. Of course he was in a panic not being used to a whole tank. But he chilled out pretty quick. I had to watch him like a hawk with net in hand. There are red cherry shrimp in there and I was sure he would go after one and I would net him but he was at least cleared for a normal tank.

Not sure how long it's been, a week? I have watched him a LOT, the whole tank really, it's a mixed community tank for decent sized fry & juvies. Nothing is missing, nothing has nipped fins, the shrimp don't even have an antenna missing. I move females carrying eggs out anyways because the 'bow juvies would eat the baby shrimps which didn't get sucked up by the daily vacumming. I test bettas in a pen in there because there is sooooo much temptation. I like to see how they react to little fish with acrylic between them.

I swear I caught that little betta eating algae yesterday.

I know the whole setup is the worst idea in the world. If someone told me they were doing it I would say get the betta out of there NOW! And I will if he does anything bad. But he is having a great time, not chasing even the smallest fish and ignoring the shrimp. Bettas have more variable personality than almost any other fish. Maybe he's a vegan member of GreenPeace and PETA. Who am I to judge him?

That psycho CT is in a big cup, where he belongs. :???: 

Echo, I have to respectfully disagree that fancy egg body goldfish are true coldwater fish. IME the more streamlined Comet type do better in slightly cooler water than many people keep their tropicals in. But my fancy goldies seem to do well in their mildy warm tank.

I think the *goldfish are coldwater fish* has some roots in persistent myths which are merely repeated enough times that people think they are true. I joined this forum immediately after reading his thread:
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3702 by TheOldSalt. 

If ever there as a better collection of old school thinking I don't know where to find it.

Cold water contains more O2 and results in a slower metabolism. With primitive filtration, circulation and aeration equipment that IS better for goldfish. Back in the good ole days when waterchanges *weren't needed* and may actually be *harmful* that's even more reason to keep goldies cold.

But with the level of filtration and aeration we can offer today, goldies' high bioload is not the same problem it used to be. Mine get at least one 50% waterchange a week. If the female looks full of eggs I use cooler water and they spawn (just like corys, ancistrus and MANY other fish). When I gave them cool water (70F?) last night they promptly started being romantic as did just about every other fish in the tank except the ones I was trying to get to spawn.

There are many reasons not to keep big fat goldfish with bettas. I my case the betta has a nasty disposition. He hasn't worked out in any of the tanks I have tried him in and I won't try him in any more. Some golfish try to eat anything smaller than they are. Mine are hopelessly in love and just float around caressing each other most of the time. If it moves they won't eat it. Just put the pellets on the right spot where they won't float away and they will go eat with good manners.

But being unable to find a happy medium of temperature for fancy goldies and a betta shouldn't be a problem. (goldfish and discus? that's probably NOT going to work)

violet


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

No goldies are not coldwater fish, but neither are they tropical fish, still requiring different environments. Try keeping goldies at 82 degrees (the optimal temp for bettas) and see how long they last. They are not compatible and should not be housed together.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

82F may be the absolute ideal temperature for bettas, and needed for spawning. But all fish have a range of temperatures and conditions in which they are comfortable and do well. Some have a wide range and some have a more narrow range.

I have long kept some bettas in water of 75F-76F and they seem to have been happy, active, good appetites and lived a good lifespan. My most active guy is in 75F water and never stops. It's tiring to watch him. I'll have to tell him he is cold.

On the other hand the goldfish do live in water in the low 80s during the summer and while they prefer the 70s, they are not gasping at the surface or showing signs of distress. They just don't spawn (that I know of).

Other than your feelings on the temperature range being completely incompatible what other parameters are incompatible Simpte?

Christine, none of my tanks are routinely above 78F unless it is summer. I wouldn't want to be cruel to your lovely fish, would you like me to return them? Most are at 77F or 78F. 

The little black/copper/gold is determined to build his bubblenest right by the HOTB return flow. His official hangout/territory is in the complete opposite corner and his little bed is in some mossy driftwood below. Why he wants to build his nest in the only place with surface current is a mystery. I'll have to give him a styro cup near his hangout. He's very mixed up (and the one who barred).

violet


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## Mobydock (Sep 6, 2005)

violet said:


> Other than your feelings on the temperature range being completely incompatible what other parameters are incompatible Simpte?


Goldfish are river fish, requiring lots of filtration. b. splendens are naturally occurring in swamps, with little water movement. 

It's not impossible for goldfish and bettas to survive together, but you're making a comprimise between two different habitats. *Why? *

Just out of curiousity what are the specs of your set-up(s)? (ie: size, filtration, etc..)

For your original question. It all depends on the genetics of the particular strain. The fancy bettas have been selectively bred and inbred for color/ finnage. In nature, only the strongest/ healthiest would earn their right to breed, so they would naturally be more agressive, than the fancy strains. Their are also many people that selectively breed for fighting(plakats), so they have become more agressive than they would be in nature.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

It's all irrelevant, the inquisition can end. I took the betta out almost a week ago, he was making the goldfish unhappy. He is out of the cup and in a hang-on barracks thing elsewhere.

I just like to give my bettas a chance to live in a real tank with things to explore and stuff to do. Such intelligent fish being stuck in a small space with nothing to occupy their mind seems sad.



> goldfish are coldwater fish


 not true



> They are not compatible and should not be housed together.


 debatable



> *Why?*


 he had failed in every other tank I tried.


And for the record, the tank is very overfiltered with large frequent waterchanges. The goldies have a jet of water so they can "struggle upstream" for fun and very calm waters for napping. It's not hard to provide both states with a little thought. It's not a show tank for people, it's a home and playground for fish. That nasty betta was having a blast. Nothing has changed except the removal of one fish and the goldies are back to being happy as can be. The only apparent issue was a mean betta.

I specifically left out PKs in the original question because I would expect them to be more aggressive. I have only had one crowntail and just in case he is any representation of the type I will NOT be getting another. I only got him because he was a combo of colors I simple could not find in any other form.

Christine, your fish all have excellent dispositions. Not a grouch in the bunch. One girl is dominant but the three are all very peaceful. One likes to hide in a cave then jumps out when one of her sisters swims by, like a kitten in a paperbag. No one gets bars so it seems to be play. I didn't know they did stuff like that.

Only 2 boys are still in barracks, made for 4 fish for a 20G long, only the center divider is in. Both have been loose in the tank but the free one just flares and glares at the other so they stay in the barracks with the opaque divider. It will just be another couple of weeks. 

violet


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