# Fish Coming To The Top To Breathe



## Kimma (Jan 19, 2006)

I am not sure what is wrong with my fish. We set up the tank about 2 weeks ago, right now the water is cloudy. We have a filter and out tank is areated. I have a black moore and a fantail in my tank. They are coming up to the top every now and then and getting air. Are they going to be OK? We set up a new tank last night added some Start Right by jungle. This is a bigger tank (30 gallons). I am afraid to put them in there right now becasue we just started it last night. Will my fish be all right until its safer to put them in the new tank? What should I do until then? I am worried about them!


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## micstarz (Oct 22, 2005)

How long did you cycle your tank for?
Water conditions?

Are they permanently at the top or occasionally coming up?


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## Kimma (Jan 19, 2006)

When we started out tank I just wanted to get a fish for our 2 year old son. We had had a betta previously, but he has recently died. We had Cupid for almost 3 years and considered him a member of our family. Our son was sad when he died. We didn't know anything about tank cycling or water conditions before we got our new fish and I started doing more research. Like I said we just wanted a fish for our son. Well, as it has progressed my husband and I have really gotten into it and our doing more research. I wish I would have done all this before. 

Anyway, one of the fish we have had since before Christmas and she is hanging in there. The Black Moore I just got on Sunday. The water is murky. The fish are swimming around very well. They only occasionally come to the top to breathe. The new tank has been filtering and areaing for about 12 hours. 

I just don't want them to die!


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## sambi7878 (Dec 23, 2005)

I agree with micstarz. Based on my experience, cycling a tank is really important for new tank set ups. Fish really need some good basteria too.

How big is that tank and how big are the fish? Are there any plants in it? Are the fish gasping for breath? are the gills look stressed or breathing fast? Goldfish usually stays at the top and it is not a problem as long as they dont look stressed out.

If the fish are gasping for breath, there might be a problem with your water or the tank itself. As what ive read from some articles, goldfish should stay in a tank that is equivalent to 1 gal per 1 inch size of a matured goldfish. Fantails and moore usually grow up to 1 foot size. So if you have two of them, a 25 to 30 gal is required. Overcrowding will cause your fish to gasp for air because of accumulation of ammonia and stuffs in the water. And if you have live plants, it will add up to ammonia accumulation.

You said the water is cloudy. How often do you feed? Ive read that goldfish dont have stomach so after eating, waste comes out almost just an hour after eating. You may feed once a day or every other day in small amounts for now. enough that the fish can consume in 5 minutes. as everyone says, excess food will then accumulate into ammonia and cause again fish to grasp for breath.

What I may suggest for now: check the water, have a 25% water change, check for overcrowding, and check the feeding. I wouldnt think of moving them to another tank yet if they are stressed. unless the new tank have cycled enough and the goldfish really needs a new house.

Hope Ive helped you a lot! I've been taking care of goldfish too for a long time now. I have 5 shubunkins, 3 orandas and 3 fantails.


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## Kimma (Jan 19, 2006)

Thanks for all the advice so far. Like I said in my second post I didn't know anything about tank cycling when we started out aquarium. Boy, do we know now! I have been reading everything I can find. They moore is small, not more than 2.5 inches. The fantail is about 3 inches. Their breathing seems normal to me, but of course I don't know what labored breathing in a goldfish really looks like. The cloudiness started when we changed the water the last time and it has cleared up yet. 
I did add some dwarf lily bulbs that I picked up at the store, but thats the only live plant that we have. We only have the 2 fish in the tank, its 10 gallons. I know now that's not big enough. That's why we bought the new one. When will the safest time be to switch them to the new tank if I HAVE to? Any will a water change stress them out more?


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## micstarz (Oct 22, 2005)

Sam, my opinion differs. I say 15 gal for the first fish and 10 gal for each one after that. Other than that, thanks for typing out all I wanted to type, saved me the labour!


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## sambi7878 (Dec 23, 2005)

Thanks for the correction micstarz!

The fish is still small for now. and the 10 gal tank is still ok for them. You dont have to transfer them yet now. specially if they look stressed out. i cant explain in text about fast breathing for fish. Just look at the gills. i guess if it opens and closes very fast and really open wide they are gasping for breath. and if the gills are too red, then, problem with ammonia and aeration.

25% water change is ok even for stressed out goldfish as long as it will not exceed to that and water of good quality is used. good temp, conditioner, and others...

About cycling, there are lots of post in this site. Read them and hope they'll help you too.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

It normally takes a month, at least, to properly cycle a new tank. You need to test for ammonia and nitrite to be able to tell where you are.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

The cloudiness is caused by a population growth of bacteria. These are the good-guy bacteria needed to cycle the tank, BUT they are also huge consumers of oxygen. They eventually die back and the water will become clear again, but in the meantime add a tablespoon of salt to the tank and a bit more aeration if possible. 

Nitrite poisoning is the usual cause of gasping during cycling in a new tank. Before the bacteria which convert it can grow, nitrite builds up to occasionally dangerous levels. Nitrite acts on the hemoglobin very much like carbon monoxide does to us humans, and it causes suffocation. The addition of that little bit of salt helps to correct this problem, because the chloride ions inhibit nitrite's ability to cause problems. between the salt and an extra airstone, your fish should be able to get through the rest of the process with no problems.
You could, of course, just go ahead and move them to their new tank. After that, get a product called "Stability" at your petshop to very rapidly get your tank fully matured within a week instead of a month, and safe in only one day.

Another problem your fish might have is parasites. Since the fish are new, this is a very real possibility. You should probably consider the option of treating the fish for 'ick while they are still in the small tank, thereby helping to keep these microscopic menaces out of your new big tank.


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## Kimma (Jan 19, 2006)

*An Update*

I just wanted to give everyone an update on the fish. I guess it has been one of those days!
We had a power outage this afternoon that lasted for about 5 hours! Which you know what that means, the pump to both tanks stopped! When the power came back on the water was even worse than it was before. I now know what labored breathing looks like. The poor little guys. I felt like I had no other choice but to go ahead and switch them over to the new tank. They seem a lot happier now, breathing easy. What should I look for now as danger signs? Like I said before, I treated this new water was Right Start at set up. We have a 14" bubble stone and a Aqau Tech filter that also adds the areation. So far they are doing very well. 

Another quick question, how often should I be feeding them? Everytime I go to the tank they swim over there and look so pitiful that I want to feed them! Also, I think that my husband and I were both feeding them! :? 
We have that straight now, though. 

Also, I want to thank everyone for all of you help!

Kimma

I thought of something else! Tink, the Black Moor has a small patch of silver on either side of his tail, what do you think this might be? Is it Ich?
And, the water in the new tank is starting to could! Can someone please give me a link to some reading material, suggest some chemicals, or just general advice? I really appreciate all of the help, and I know yall probably get tired of all the newbies asking the same questions!

Thanks Again

Kimma


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## garfieldnfish (Jan 18, 2005)

2 fancy goldfish will be fine in a 29 gal their entire life. I am glad to see you switched them over. They can cycle the tank. Goldfish by the way, do come up to the surface for what looks like air pretty often. That is normal goldfish behavior, if they stay at the top all the time, you need to worry, otherwise it's ok, since carp eat flies and water fleas in the wild and goldfish are decendants of them looking for a floating meal. Did you add some stuff from your old tank to your new tank to seed it? That would cut down on the cycling time a lot. Filter pads and gravel are the best seeding materials.
The silvery patch does not sound like ich. Ich looks like grains of salt, sprinkled over the goldfish. Pretty easy to identify if you see if. Goldfish do change colors but I'm not sure if that is what you are seeing.
I would only feed my goldfish once a day. I know it is hard to resist, but overfeeding has killed more of them then anything else, they are aquatic hogs and don't know when they had enough. They will eat until they explode. At least mine would.


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## Kimma (Jan 19, 2006)

I asked my husband and he said no, he did not add any water from the old tank. Will have to remember that in the future. We do have gravel in our tank too. I am happy that they seem to be doing so much better! I can tell that they seem happier. I never realized what interestin personalities fish have! I guess I never paid that much attention. Tink, the moor is so funny! We named him Tink because he's so little, he's adorable! He likes to play in the bubbles from the bubble stone! 

So, feed once a day? You are right, it is hard to resist! I will try my hardest to stick with that, but if anything I can promise twice a day! I want Tink to grow!

Thanks again for all the help. :grin: :fish: :smile: :fish: 

Kimma


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

good luck, I hope your troubles are few..


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## sambi7878 (Dec 23, 2005)

Here's some good links for goldfish that I know:

http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/goldfish.html

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/index.html

Hope it will help you more.


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