# The Obama Deception



## Knight~Ryder

The Obama Deception is a hard-hitting film that completely destroys the myth that Barack Obama is working for the best interests of the American people.

The Obama phenomenon is a hoax carefully crafted by the captains of the New World Order. He is being pushed as savior in an attempt to con the American people into accepting global slavery.

Covered in this film: who Obama works for, what lies he has told, and his real agenda. If you want to know the facts and cut through all the hype, this is the film for you.

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Thoughts?


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## Fishychic

You just love bringing up controversial issues, don't you? lol.


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## Guest

2 hours tape!


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## COM

Uhh, no.

And you're plagiarizing again. If you are going to copy stuff, please give some semblance of a citation.


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## Fishfirst

How is this plagiarisim? People post Youtube stuff all the time and it never gets questioned... As for actually believing it... probably not. However, it is interesting the path Obama has taken... in his campaign one of his promises was for every expense... there was a way to balance the budget... his debt that he's racked up in his past 3 months in office has far exceeded anything Bush had in his 8 years as president... by now, I think ALL of us know that is a lie... no matter what your political views, EVERYONE needs to realize that this kind of spending is not sustainable and will only take America down the road of socialism and dispare. Also his foriegn policies are terrible... he's weakening Americas defense... and on top of that he wants to sieze control of any corporation he sees unfit to control itself. 

His campaign made it seem like he was a "middle of the road" kind of guy... instead he's obviously become a puppet of Nancy Pelosi and Chris Dodd.

In two short years Americans need to wake up and STOP Obama and the Dems from hurting this country further. Anyone who speaks for the American people but doesn't read a bill before signing it that will affect the American people should not WORK for the American people.


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## jones57742

Folks:

Unpublished but reality is that his "Stimulus Package" had attached riders to force the states which accepted funds into significant future unfunded mandates which promulgate the liberal Democrats' dream for our society.

Rick Perry, our Governor, vetoed the "Stimulus Package" money.

TR


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## mrmoby

Fishfirst said:


> How is this plagiarisim? People post Youtube stuff all the time and it never gets questioned... As for actually believing it... probably not. However, it is interesting the path Obama has taken... in his campaign one of his promises was for every expense... there was a way to balance the budget... his debt that he's racked up in his past 3 months in office has far exceeded anything Bush had in his 8 years as president... by now, I think ALL of us know that is a lie... no matter what your political views, EVERYONE needs to realize that this kind of spending is not sustainable and will only take America down the road of socialism and dispare. Also his foriegn policies are terrible... he's weakening Americas defense... and on top of that he wants to sieze control of any corporation he sees unfit to control itself.
> 
> His campaign made it seem like he was a "middle of the road" kind of guy... instead he's obviously become a puppet of Nancy Pelosi and Chris Dodd.
> 
> In two short years Americans need to wake up and STOP Obama and the Dems from hurting this country further. Anyone who speaks for the American people but doesn't read a bill before signing it that will affect the American people should not WORK for the American people.


Could you please provide facts and figures to back up these claims? Or will Mr. Hannity be prviding a demonstration later?


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## Knight~Ryder

Fish first I would like to delve into this a little deeper. This is not just about Obama, it is now because he is in office, but it's much bigger then what we see.

Essentially there is no difference between Liberal, Conservative, Democrat or,Republican 

[yt]tgjkJdQjze0[/yt]


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## justintrask

...you go on youtube way too much, and bring up THE most controversial issues ever.


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## alliecat420

free your mind, educate yourself (however you choose).. debate and discuss these issues.. my friends and i have all just stopped talking politics.. noone is on the same side here.. half of us think he's just full of **** , and america is goin down..and the other half think the first half is just a bunch of rasists


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## Fishychic

mrmoby said:


> Could you please provide facts and figures to back up these claims? Or will Mr. Hannity be prviding a demonstration later?



So hasty! What is wrong with just asking for proof? sheesh.


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## flamingo

No matter who's getting voted in, no one's ever going to be happy or even slightly content.
IMHO, I preferred him far over McCain, so no big issues over here...
But then again, I don't spend countless hours picking it apart... nor am I of age to even vote yet.


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## Kurtfr0

I have to admit like I did on my obama thread.. he didn't have a clue on how to fix the economy... he is getting better... as for the whole socialism thing.. seems true enough. Specially when other countries see it to..

Also some weird things with obama.. He got tons of donations from untracable people.. hmmm.

He did befriend that peice of rgnarowejuhn Rev wright.. and the guy who bombed the whatever. 

And the latest thing is.. Saying were sorry to Europeans.. I disliked him when he became pres, I started to like what he was doing. Now I again Don't. 

I feel theres something fishy.. but then again.. *looks at Bill Clinton*


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## emc7

I don't get the whole "deception" thing. Obama seems to be making a good faith effort to keep his campaign promises. And as for advancing expanding government services and redistributing wealth, that has always been a Democratic agenda. You elect a democratic senate, house, and president and then are shocked they advance the agenda they've had for 50 years. Wheres the deception?


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## Ghost Knife

Obama=Socialism It's as simple as that. We are quickly becoming just like the former Soviet Union.


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## Againsthecurent

He vowed to start bringing the troops back on day one (didn't happen). He said the surge wouldn't work and now what is he doing. Where is the outrage from those who put down Bush for doing it? He promised to get rid of the Bush tax cuts, those proclaimed to be only for the rich even though everyone who paid in got a return and many were brought to a level of not paying any (that didn't happen and he kept it). All those who voted for him wanted change, but forgot to ask what the change would be and forgot that most politicians don't keep their promises. He promised to have complete transparency yet wrote the stimulus bill behind closed doors, with input from only those he chose to have any, and crammed it down everyone's throat before anyone could read it in entirety. Change doesn't always mean that it is to the positive, but many forget that and like to call it progressive whether it is for the good or not.


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## Againsthecurent

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old rancher, whose hand was caught in 
the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. 

Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our president.

The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, Obama is a 'Post Turtle''.

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post turtle' was. 
The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come 
across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.

The old rancher saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain. 
'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, and he 
doesn't know what to do while he's up there, and you just wonder what kind of 
dumb ass put him up there to begin with'.


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## emc7

LOL, AtC. Sounds like a good description of Bush. 

Our winner-take-all system causes us to toggle between two extremes while ignoring the middle ground where most of us are. We waste our limited resources trying to undo the previous administrations policies, shoving a pendulum back and forth, rather than making any long-term progress in any direction we all agree on.

I said Obama was making an effort to keep his promises, not that he was succeeding. Most politicians don't bother to even try. 

I don't want to hear any more whining about a how a conspiracy of a few powerful people is plotting world domination. Duh, its got to be one of the oldest pasttimes for those with too much time and money. Enough ordinary people can overrule them in our system. Do what you think is right, get involved and stop sitting on the sidelines. But try to move the country where you think it should go, don't whine about hidden opposition. Tell me why your position is right, not how your opposition is manipulating things against you. I don't give a c**p about your conspiracy theories. Hannity gives me a headache and so does Maxine Waters.


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## emc7

Personally, I don't like expanding services at the federal level. Federal bureaucracy and one-size-fits-all application of untested solutions to social ills is a ginormous waste of money. Go back to the constitution. Let the states do most everything. Let the feds be limited to settling disputes between the states, ferreting out corruption at the state level and comparing state programs to collect data on which ideas really have the effect they were meant to.

But the only way for this to happen is for all of us to lose confidence in the fed. government. Maybe if we hear a tape of Obama selling Secretary of State to Hilary ala his former gov.


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## TheOldSalt

Heh,heh. funny.

Actually, I have a confession to make. It was me. My bad. Sorry.

I am Agent # 2931 of the VRWC. We of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy handpicked him to be our next Prez before he even got elected as a Senator. We were growing weary of having to fight so hard to keep things running smoothly in this country and of the hard fights we faced in the last several elections with their 50/50 votes. We saw that things were not going well around here and that the next Prez was going to be a failure no matter what he did, and we decided that the next Prez should not be one of us. Therefore, we scoured the country in search of the worst possible candidate we could find, and decided to put him in office at this worst possible time.

Our plan worked flawlessly, and indeed far better than we ever dreamed possible.

After a few years of these "obaminable" conditions, the county as a whole will no doubt swing back to the right, and swing hard, in an effort to try to repair the damage, and we'll be able to easily maintain a solid lock on power for a good 20-30 years. No one will want to risk a repeat of what The Big O is bringing.

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!


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## Knight~Ryder

Did all of you actually watch the whole video? This isn't just about Obama. It's the whole picture.


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## Fishfirst

emc7 said:


> Personally, I don't like expanding services at the federal level. Federal bureaucracy and one-size-fits-all application of untested solutions to social ills is a ginormous waste of money. Go back to the constitution. Let the states do most everything. Let the feds be limited to settling disputes between the states, ferreting out corruption at the state level and comparing state programs to collect data on which ideas really have the effect they were meant to.
> 
> But the only way for this to happen is for all of us to lose confidence in the fed. government. Maybe if we hear a tape of Obama selling Secretary of State to Hilary ala his former gov.


These are Conservative views! Why are you defending obama if you feel this way? This is exactly what obama doesn't want!


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## Fishfirst

TOS LOL! Hopefully this will wake up america and we can win the next couple elections... you never know though, the savior maybe untouchable or turn this country into a dictatorship before you even get the chance for a new election.


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## Againsthecurent

emc7 said:


> Personally, I don't like expanding services at the federal level. Federal bureaucracy and one-size-fits-all application of untested solutions to social ills is a ginormous waste of money. Go back to the constitution. Let the states do most everything. Let the feds be limited to settling disputes between the states, ferreting out corruption at the state level and comparing state programs to collect data on which ideas really have the effect they were meant to.
> 
> But the only way for this to happen is for all of us to lose confidence in the fed. government. Maybe if we hear a tape of Obama selling Secretary of State to Hilary ala his former gov.


emc7, I'm glad to see you agree with my conservative views. Notice I said conservative not Republican. Both parties seem to keep moving to the left and closer to socialism, it's sickening to see. The power to local/state government instead of expanding federal government is exactly what Obama doesn’t want. He will only expand the fed’s power and oversight of both state government and the private sector. He would rather kill Wall Street (with full government control) and take control of Main Street.


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## COM

"Conservative" and "Republican" are no longer in sync. The Conservative platform advocates smaller government, less spending, etc. The Republican platform for the last decade or so has just been a Southern Evangelical thing with some anti-Union quasi reformist rhetoric on top.

I think that the Obama plan is heavily reliant on historical solutions to economic crises. They may work, but like mutual fund advertisements, they ought to come with the, "Past results do not guarantee future performance" warning.

In terms of state governors refusing the bailout money, that's downright stupid. It passed already. It is over. The people of your state will eventually pay for these projects in future taxes. Done deal. You might as well reap the benefits. If you don't, the money will just get redistributed and you're going to pay it back anyway.


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## noonein2

I personally don't care about politics and I think barack obama is a good president but all the stuff that gets made for them like the obama chia pet and such is just plain wrong


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## Kurtfr0

Againsthecurent said:


> While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old rancher, whose hand was caught in
> the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
> 
> Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our president.
> 
> The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, Obama is a 'Post Turtle''.
> 
> Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post turtle' was.
> The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come
> across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.
> 
> The old rancher saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain.
> 'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, and he
> doesn't know what to do while he's up there, and you just wonder what kind of
> dumb ass put him up there to begin with'.


that was just simply halarious. And I agree with alot of people on this thread. HE broke laws himself as president.. firing certain people.... *cough*.

I think hes pushing it. If he doesnt straighten up.. those tea parties will be riots in a heart beat.


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## emc7

Its not that i like obama's policies, Its that I'm sick of people harping about this great media conspiracy. Who cares. I you don't like it go buy a newspaper company, they are cheap enough now. We need more real discussion of issues and less "he is the devil" crap. Both bush-bashes and Obama-haters get on my nerves because they don't even try to accomplish anything. Propose some sensible alternatives or shut up.


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## frogman5

illuminati controls everything look up a video on them or read a book about them you will be amazed 

here is one about them 

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and here is some symbolism on the one dollar bill

[yt]Elc_fZQOIcs[/yt]

enjoy


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## Fishfirst

Sensible alternative... make AIG and all the other banks return the money they got, call them to go bankrupt... and let capitalism be capitalism again. Get rid of the IRS and propose a fair tax on everyone that is easy to understand. Secure the US/Mexico boarder and fine businesses that employ illegals, give the car companies complete control over their emission standards, let terrorism be terrorism again, give all the house and senate a pay cut, and most importantly... STOP SPENDING MONEY!


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## mrmoby

Fishfirst said:


> Sensible alternative... make AIG and all the other banks return the money they got, call them to go bankrupt... and let capitalism be capitalism again. Get rid of the IRS and propose a fair tax on everyone that is easy to understand. Secure the US/Mexico boarder and fine businesses that employ illegals, give the car companies complete control over their emission standards, let terrorism be terrorism again, give all the house and senate a pay cut, and most importantly... STOP SPENDING MONEY!


Boy, that is such a sound policy. wonder why it hasn't been done thus far.

Ok, let's take one piece of this. Let's say we let the automakers set their own emmisions standards. where is the benefit there?


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## guppyart

hmmm emissions standards wouldn't be an issue in domestic car makers could even make a engine :chair: imports have made better gas mileage for years now while having longer lasting vehicles engines and bodies . you don't need big trucks, suvs, or even sedans that can't break 30mpg.

seriously the rest of the world gets by just fine with small little 4cyl cars, in fact the rest of the world is thriving in comparison while your dieing last I checked.

in fact why not just force all domestic car makers to take a lesson from import makers on how to make makes more then 40mpg engines and be cheap about it. why not 50-60mpg engines and vehicles that make sense while still making emissions tests. 
Not SUVs that guzzle gas but really don't serve a purpose, or not drive massive trucks that the majority of owners don't use that "hauling" power we see in commercials even to the slightest bit, when a little 1/4ton can do what they need.
meaning how about a little less status on how rich you are and a little more on how smart you are.
seems only domestic carmakers have massive complaints and issues with emissions standard not the imports. bigger isn't better, more powerful isn't better.
*lets look at pros and cons of smaller engined vehicles.*
1.slower speed
2. higher gas mileage with better fuel emissions.
3. less street racing or at least not at as deadly speeds
4. commuting would be cheaper for people having to work at distance. 
5. police wouldn't have as deadly car chases at break neck speeds. teens might not be as reckless and alot more mothers would have sons and daughters still.
umm I can't really see a drawback?
no one "needs" SUVs and trucks its a simple fact you just want that status symbol and feel safe.
so when you hit someone in a small car with your big truck you can feel good about being safe while killing the person in the smaller car who was doing the environment a favor and using his brain?


why not throw the emissions idea out and get a decent health care system like the rest of the 1st world countries that you supposedly are up to par with have.
one that doesn't support only the people that can afford insurance and surgeries cause to me as a human that makes more sense then any emissions rule. care for those close to home and that support us not the big companies which cause this whole crash in the first place cause those people are the ones that are going to keep the country alive unless there all dead from no healthcare.
if you can't help your own people, not the upper class the people is the middle and lower class the ones that work then what kind of country are you?
doesn't sound very superpower, civilized, 1st world at all.


I don't know just seems a little to much whining about who is in government and how he got there rather then what your country needs which is the get back on its feet and gain some respect from the rest of the world and repair some broken friendships and trust.
stand behind whoever is in government but get them to do what is needed, be it forcefully or willingly?
little less "conspiracy" and thinking about ourselves and a little more of "what can I do" to make this work.
this is what america needed for awhile in my opinion maybe it will make people realize its not picture perfect anymore, volunteer, do community service, help a friend do something rather then complain cause that gets nothing accomplished all talk no action leads to what has just happened.

just my 2 cents running my mouth off with ideas again


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## emc7

Go FF, GA, It doesn't matter if I agree with what you say. I applaud you for actually thinking for yourself and not letting talk radio do it for you. Its nice to see a real discussion of policy. But GA is in Canada! it sucks that everyone in the world is discussing our policy except us, we discuss celebrities.


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## Knight~Ryder

guppyart said:


> and a little more of "what can I do" to make this work


Not too much. Do we still actually think we have any say in the matter?

All this doesn't bother me in the least, I'm not too concerned about it all. Remember if you have a peace that the world can't give your good to go!


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## Againsthecurent

I can tell you one thing guppyart, a 1/2 ton truck can't do what needs to be done for me and many others. Hook up the max payload of a 1/2 ton truck and see what happens to the gas mileage. My old 1/2 ton got worse mileage than the heavy duty truck when hauling my trailers. I also would like to hear about Canada's health care system. What is it like? In the US I don't want a government employee deciding what surgery I can or can't have. The heath care system in the country needs improvement that is for sure, but socialized medicine is not the answer either. Why is it that our auto makers can't keep up? It's hard to beat a Toyota or Honda these days, but then again those autos in the US were made where? Most were made here. If the US auto industry can't take care of business let them go under. They can either restructure or someone will buy them out and probably outperform them. We need to let capitalism take care of itself; it has done it many times before. Spending enormous amounts of money will help little and more than likely prolong the correction. 

mrmoby, the views that Fishfirst pointed out are viable ideas and have been tried before with other companies in the past. They were not publicized as much and used to further someone’s pet spending bills. Do a little history search you may learn something. As of yet I have not seen anything from you that has ever been constructive on this forum. Don't tell me that you are one to just tout the party line. I for one am sick of both parties. It doesn’t matter if one party came up with the world’s best idea, the other party would have to be against it for no reason but to not let the other be successful. I really can’t think of one politician that I care much for at this time. 

FF: I am also for a Fair Tax. With the current complicated system that many Americans cannot understand, it makes it too easy for politicians to meddle with it unnoticed.


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## emc7

> I am also for a Fair Tax. With the current complicated system that many Americans cannot understand, it makes it too easy for politicians to meddle with it unnoticed


I have to agree with you on this. It's so complicated that government-employed lawyers and financial professionals get them wrong even with helping software and for businesses its even worse. We simplify them every few decades and complicate them every year.


> let capitalism take care of itself;


As long as you don't let it regulate itself, like the peanut industry regulates itself. Greenspan trusted that banks wouldn't act against their self-interest and had to admit he was wrong. Government should make everyone play by the same rules, not decide winners and loses.

If something is too big to fail, you shouldn't let it get that big. If you let it get that big, let it fail. 

It irks me that feds can overrule states on just about anything. States tried to be tough on food and the feds told them not to test for mad cow. States tried to prevent the mortgage mess and the feds told them to but out. If you only have one level of government that matters, you only have to buy off one group of politicians to protect your interests. If we are going to do everything federally, we ought to either abolish state government and save money or let the states overrule the feds. I mean we need someone independent to audit all that spending.

But why bother trying to improve things TOS and the Illuminati will take care of us.


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## emc7

Ok, I watched some of the video, but I'd rather see a list of points and less of the jabber. I need more proof than random video clips. I'm not shocked that bankers around the world would like to control the international banking/currency system. But right now I'm not convinced bankers could conspire to order lunch. As long as they got their bonuses, noone cared what their bank's assets were actually worth. Somehow we have to stock owners back in control of corporations. Its like we have a herd of dinosaur running loose off the leash.


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## COM

Againsthecurent said:


> I also would like to hear about Canada's health care system. What is it like? In the US I don't want a government employee deciding what surgery I can or can't have.


Yeah. We have the best quality health care on the planet, but it costs a fortune. I believe that all humans living in the US deserve health care as a human right, but I have no idea how to pay for it or distribute it. One thing for certain, letting our federal government make calls is a horrifying idea.


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## mrmoby

AGC, I am not toting the party line, I have no party affilliation. I am tired of party BS as well, but I am also tired of hammering on an administration that has been in place just over 60 days. The sky hasn't fallen, and probably won't in the foreseeable future, but you have folks on the right that are spouting rhetoric that is just as bad as it was from the anti Bush People, who blamed that administration for everything from the economy to their toast being burnt in the morning.

The country is in a bad spot right now, and some things need to be tried. For example, if it was as simple as letting capitalism work, and letting GM sink, then so be it, but GM is so entwined in the overall economy, we could end up in such a hole no one can imagine. If you read your history, you will see that Chrysler got a huge loan from the gov't, paid back early, and with interest, which kept them going at least another 25 years, and further paid back by contributing to the overall economy.

As far as my being constructive, I guess that is subjective. If you don't care for my participation you are always welcome to skip my posts.


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## guppyart

no but ATC that would mean you are actually hauling something which then makes it understandable rather then people using them as daily drivers and maybe putting 4 2x4s a sheet of plywood in the box to build the kids a treehouse kind of deal.
thats what I am meaning by they can use a 1/4ton but then again its all "status" isn't it bigger truck bigger **************** or E-Peen in the online groups or maybe its the opposite bigger = smaller and making up for something...

as for canadas healthcare system its rather interesting in some hate it others love it, but it works fairly well, I for one like having peace of mind I can be shot or in an accident walk in and get healthcare and not worry if I can afford it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared
gives the gist of the system and comparison



> Canadians spend about 55% of what Americans spend on health care and have longer life expectancy, and lower infant mortality rates. Many Americans have access to quality health care. All Canadians have access to similar care at a considerably lower cost.





> The United States spends more on technology than Canada. In a 2004 study on medical imaging in Canada,[74] it was found that Canada had 4.6 MRI scanners per million population while the U.S. had 19.5 per million. Canada's 10.3 CT scanners per million also ranked behind the U.S., which had 29.5 per million.[75] The study did not attempt to assess whether the difference in the number of MRI and CT scanners had any effect on the medical outcomes but did observe that MRI scanners are used more intensively in Canada than either the U.S. or Great Britain





> Some of the extra money spent in the United States goes to doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals, all of whom receive higher compensation than their counterparts north of the border. According to health data collected by the OECD, average income for physicians in the United States in 1996 was nearly twice that for physicians in Canada.





> While some label Canada's system as "socialized medicine," the term is inaccurate. Unlike systems with public delivery, such as the UK, the Canadian system provides public coverage for private delivery. As Princeton University health economist Uwe E. Reinhardt notes, single-payer systems are not "socialized medicine" but "social insurance" systems, because doctors are in the private sector.[21] Similarly, Canadian hospitals are controlled by private boards and/or regional health authorities, rather than being part of government.


so we aren't government run but rather government funded through private practices and boards.
issues we have is waiting times due to we don't pay enough to keep enough doctors so we can meet demand of said doctors.
seems possibly a combination of both systems would work best.
but so far canada's healthcare is getting better every year due to more reforms and funding, waiting times are going down so positives so far.

2 facts that blew my mind I thought it wasn't that bad.



> The U.S. is one of three OECD countries not to have some form of universal health coverage; the other two being Turkey and Mexico.





> Through all entities in its public-private system, the U.S. spends more per capita than any other nation in the world,[11] but is the only wealthy industrialized country in the world that lacks some form of universal health care.


thats it for me and long winded posts for now


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## Againsthecurent

> The United States spends more on technology than Canada. In a 2004 study on medical imaging in Canada,[74] it was found that Canada had 4.6 MRI scanners per million population while the U.S. had 19.5 per million. Canada's 10.3 CT scanners per million also ranked behind the U.S., which had 29.5 per million.[75] The study did not attempt to assess whether the difference in the number of MRI and CT scanners had any effect on the medical outcomes but did observe that MRI scanners are used more intensively in Canada than either the U.S. or Great Britain


This strikes me as very interesting since it took over a week for me to get in for a CT last time. They stated that they are booked up for at least a week out, usually more. I also wonder if half of the CT's were needed or if they are just making sure to pay for the equipment. 

As for the economy and international monetary support to other countries. I think it's time to cut a good portion of foreign aid. The new budget wants to donate even more money to other countries. I think it's time to take care of ourselves first or we may not be in a position to help in the future. I can understand some of the money going to other countries, but that shouldn't come before the people of this country.


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## FlatLine

I think the two things about The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist that bother me the most is the elimination of US sovereignty and the fact that the only thing Federal about the Federal Reserve is the name. There is nothing governing the Federal Reserve.


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## Againsthecurent

Many of our politicians are too pro United Nations when they should be looking at how it affects the US. They should be more interested in our own people. Whenever I hear a politician state "New World Order" it makes me cringe.


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## k-dawg-

Kurtfr0 said:


> Also some weird things with obama.. He got tons of donations from untracable people.. hmmm.


*Where did you hear of said donations? Source? Are we talking about campaign contributions? That is a very broad statement. Almost all of his campaign contributions were composed of small donations from the populus and, with the creation of the FEC, hard money donations must be anounced. It's all available to the public on opensecrets.org I may be wrong but I highly doubt that Obama recieved "tons of donations from untracable people."*



emc7 said:


> Our winner-take-all system causes us to toggle between two extremes while ignoring the middle ground where most of us are. We waste our limited resources trying to undo the previous administrations policies, shoving a pendulum back and forth, rather than making any long-term progress in any direction we all agree on.
> 
> I said Obama was making an effort to keep his promises, not that he was succeeding. Most politicians don't bother to even try.


*Couldn't have said it better myself EMC7.*


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## Againsthecurent

You also need to remember k-dawg that Obama's contribution site made no effort to put in place a way to track foreign contributions. He did no such thing and so we DO have a large amount of money that was contributed to him with no ability to track it. Clinton did make the effort to do so and required to list an address abroad to a special page which advises that such donations are only taken by mail and that donors "must include a copy of your U.S. passport or green card. It is illegal to take any contributions from those outside the US except those with green card status and Americans living abroad.

edited to add: $200 or less contributions do not have to be itemized


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## k-dawg-

Againsthecurent said:


> You also need to remember k-dawg that Obama's contribution site made no effort to put in place a way to track foreign contributions. He did no such thing and so we DO have a large amount of money that was contributed to him with no ability to track it. Clinton did make the effort to do so and required to list an address abroad to a special page which advises that such donations are only taken by mail and that donors "must include a copy of your U.S. passport or green card. It is illegal to take any contributions from those outside the US except those with green card status and Americans living abroad.
> 
> edited to add: $200 or less contributions do not have to be itemized


*Obama's website doesn't have to. It is all on reputable non-partisan websites such as opensecrets.org And Obama did recieve money illegally as did mccain. They are both politicians; they are both slimeballs. But to say it was "tons of foreign money" does not make sense. My arguement was to not rattle off ridiculous statements like they are 100% factual.*
From opensecrets.org
"The AP interviewed 123 Obama and John McCain donors in 11 countries and found that Obama has accepted contributions from at least three foreigners and that only three Obama donors and two McCain donors had been asked by the campaigns to prove their citizenship..."The fundraising review of hundreds of thousands of donations - involving AP bureaus around the globe - found clear evidence that both campaigns took money first and asked questions later, if ever," according to the Associated Press...Obama's campaign has agreed to return the contributions from foreign citizens that the AP identified. And although of those donors who were surveyed, McCain didn't take any money from non-Americans, both campaigns had paperwork missing contribution details required by law."

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638


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## k-dawg-

EDIT: Oops Idk what happened..my b double post


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## Againsthecurent

I don't care who the politician is or what party. It is wrong and illegal for everyone. Obama received over $3 million dollars from people donating under the $200 amount. These do not have to documented and were no part of what opensecrets.com reviewed. Every politician should know where the money comes from and be able to give the needed information. I believe that they all should get the same amount of money to work with and no money from special interests and most for sure none from outside the US. The amount of money raised and wasted could have helped many people, but of course they only think of themselves. With no money from special interests there should be no payback while in the office, but I'm sure they would find a way around it. We need to make them responsible.


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## shev

Alex Jones is kinda loony, but he does bring up many valid concerns. Individually, each topic has a point that can stand on its own, but then Alex ties them together into a ridiculous conspiracy theory, and loses credibility. I've tried to watch this video before, and can never make it very long. Gun control is a legitimate concern, but then he leads that into the government trying to disarm people so they can't revolt. Wanting to band together and be helpful is one thing, a "national civilian security force" is another, and both clips were taken out of context.

I didn't vote for Obama, although I do think he is still the better choice of the two major contenders, I voted for Ron Paul. The only reason I defend him and many of his policies is because the opposition makes so many baseless accusations. That's what happens when you're obviously biased, as with the two party system, another very valid concern from the video that is blown out of proportion when he implies they are secretly cohering for world domination. The sad thing is this guy religiously supports Ron Paul and yet hurt his cause with the 9/11 inside job thing.

With that said, i agree the bailouts are crazy and the stimulis is over the top, especially with our current situation that was inherited from Bush. I just don't see how you can say Obama is throwing money to his cronies, then look the other way for Bush and Mccain. Keating five ring a bell? How about Bush's proposed bailout of 700 billion, you know the one with the former goldman sachs executive was heading? I bet that one was in the video. The no-bid system for Haliburton just screams corruption as well. Also, it was insinuated that Obama was propped up by some elite, like a turtle on a post, which he probably was, but I bet you wouldn't acknowledhe Mccain or Bush's similar situation, which were much much more obvious.


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## emc7

You can make an argument that McCain earned it. A long career in politics at least gave him some real experience. I bet he's one of the few in Washington who really reads bills. But no presidential candidate get support from a major party without being selected by 'certain people' and getting beholden to special interests. A lot of his supporters felt he had "sold out" and his speeches had lost the honest ring they used to have before his bid.

These kinds of conspiracy theorists remind me of UFO or ghost hunters in the way they gather a bunch of unrelated facts jump to conclusion with no logical chain. If a big conspiracy actual does get uncovered and proven, or an alien invasion for that matter, no one will believe it because we have gotten so used to ignoring these nuts.


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## COM

emc7 said:


> These kinds of conspiracy theorists remind me of UFO or ghost hunters in the way they gather a bunch of unrelated facts jump to conclusion with no logical chain.


Didya ever notice that the UFO debate seems to make it into the mainstream when we are in economic prosperity and at peace and that we seem to go into the political conspiracy thing when we're not?


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## Shaggy

People start enbedding youtube in your posts!


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## Kurtfr0

Ok I watched intill around 35 minutes. I was rofling at how dumb it was. I don't know if hes working for who or whatever, but this video takes it way out of context. this video is just full of etbnoeqbnebn


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## Knight~Ryder

Kurtfr0 said:


> Ok I watched intill around 35 minutes. I was rofling at how dumb it was. I don't know if hes working for who or whatever, but this video takes it way out of context. this video is just full of etbnoeqbnebn


Maybe every single bit of info on there may not be credible, who am I too say?

You do realize though that eveyrthing you have been taught is not 100% credible either. You can't just believe what school and gov't throws at you. 

We will never know all the corruption that goes on in this world, nor do we need too. It is nice to know though so we are not just sucked into whatever the gov't throws at us.


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## Knight~Ryder

I wonder what peoples thoughts are about Michael moore?


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## Plecostomus

COM said:


> Didya ever notice that the UFO debate seems to make it into the mainstream when we are in economic prosperity and at peace and that we seem to go into the political conspiracy thing when we're not?


Well the media has to find SOMETHING to get worried about.


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## COM

Glad that we brought this *brilliant* thread back to life instead of starting a new thread specifically about Michael Moore.

As for my thoughts on His Fatness, I used to really like him. I saw his first movie, _Roger and Me_ when I was in high school and I was inspired to "do something" about the plight of the American worker. It actually led me to my choice of college, where I ended up switching sides completely, but that's another story. I watched all of this other work too, and some of it is actually pretty clever.

During my freshman year in college, Moore came to speak. He got up on stage and called the audience a group of, "Ivy-league f**ers." Then he said that in the building next door, the one that housed my school, "They are teaching how to destroy unions and send jobs overseas." Security had to escort him out of the building and into his limo.

I have seen his other films since then. None of them have been particular good, in my opinion. Although, I would say that he does a good job of advancing discourse on important topics, if not only among the liberal audience that goes to his movies.


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