# Baby tiger oscars



## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

Two days ago I bought two baby albino tiger oscars and the one of them is friendly and will eat and isnt scared. but the other one is scared to death whenever i come in the room and he hasnt ate and sometimes they just lay at the bottom of the tank. and i havnt done any water changes because i just got them. they're only like 1 1/2- 2 inches -does anyone know why they lay on the bottom ? is it normal? its weird because the fish that is friendlier is the smaller one.. 
Any help will be appreciated thanks


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

What size is the tank? Are there any tankmates? Did you cycle the tank? Do you know what the water parameters are?


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2006)

what size tank? how long has it been set up? do you kow about the nitrogen cycle? what are your water parameters? how big exactly are the oscars? Any other tankmates? what are you feeding them?

you need tell us more before we can tell you more.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

30 gallon tank , tank was used for bf's oscar who has now been upgraded .. it was used for months with no problems. we took it to myhouse and set it up and ran the water for 24 hours and then rinsed the stones with water, changed water with chlorine drops. the two albino's are 1 and a half inches long including the tale. the tank is 30 long 15 tal and 13 wide. there are no other tankemates.. we have a sucker waiting to be put in. and they are on a pellet diet and flakes... they prefer the flakes more b/c of there size. the smaller one is eating more than the slightly larger one. they have been in it for 2 days laying next to eachother in all the space not moving much ... could it have to do with current
?


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

is it necessary to know the nitrogen cycle? my bf has a 5 year old oscar and he says he doesnt know anything about it ..


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I think I'll leave this to you, SK.


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

It has nothing to do with current... your fish may have new tank syndrome. You have not let it cycle long enough. 'Nuff said there. 

Second of all, you have two oscars in a 30 gallon?!? They will NOT be alright. They will grow stunted, and eventually die from this. If they haven't died from the new tank syndrome.

Do you know how high your nitrates are and all that? Do you have a test kit to test it with?


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

we let it cycle for three days and we put a fish from another tank in it for 24 hours and he loved the tank so i got those ones cuz i figured they would be fine in it.. the one fish seems fine.. does the laying on the bottom mean that they have new tank syndrome for sure? how positive are you ? the fish are about as long as my pinky and the tank is huge for them.. im going to upgrade- im not keeping them in that small of a tank for long.. the only fish store around here that carries oscars is walmart so i didnt want to go out and spend a few hundred on a tank for some fish that might not even last 30 days.. if they live im going to keep getting bigger tanks.. 
my boyfriends fish is 11 inches long and extremely heathly and always has been ..


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

sorry about the confusion with how long the tank was run for i told my boyfriend to answer your questions becuz i thought he could answer them better since he knows more than i do.. i dont know anything about nitrates.. i just got a tank from my boyfriend for my birthday in august and i got a community of tetras and a pleco in my living room and then in my bedroom i have my bfs old 30 gallon and the whole reason i got interested in fish is because i love the oscar he has and i really wanted to get two of my own .. i really hope one is female and one is male so they can breed that would be awesome. ive been doing some research and i will learn more.. 
i really hate buying my fish from walmart because it makes me sick because they dont know anything at all.. but i cant drive 3 hours away and expect the fish to be alive in the bag by the time i get home


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## Forester (Jul 30, 2006)

It took about 5 weeks for my tank to cycle. That is starting completly from scratch.


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Wal-Mart Fish= sick fish... haha.. good luck with those..

I don't expext them to live, if you ask me. If they aren't sick from Wal-Mart, then they probably do have new tank syndrome, three days isn't hardly long enough to cycle a tank without any bacteria starter... 

I am pretty positive about it, I for one know how new tank syndrome can take a toll on a fish. Been there and done that.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

what happened to the fish that had new tank sydrome ?? how did it effect him ?


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

if they do survive how can i tell if they are male and female ? they seem to like eachother.. they stay together


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

I am not completely sure how to tell male from female. 

First of all, I'll give you a definition of new tank syndrome.

In established aquariums, just as in nature, toxic ammonia from fish waste is broken down by bacteria into nitrite, which is itself broken down by a different group of bacteria into nitrate. In a newly set up aquarium, those bacteria are not present in any quantity, and it takes time - about a 4 to 6 weeks under normal circumstances - for those bacteria to multiply to the point of being able to keep up with the waste output of the fish.

And now, what happened to the fish. 

They died... within days of being put into my new tank. Completely uncycled... no instant bacteria, just water in the tank and some water conditioners. Took less than 72 hours for them all to kill off. They go into shock because they don't have the good bacteria to help with the bio-load.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

well when i set up my other tanks i got my other 7 fish from a pet store and a few from walmart because htey didnt carry the ones i wanted and they all lived and ive had them since august.. i put them in about 5 days after i set up the new tank because thats all the lady at the store told me to do ..


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Take my advice... never... *EVER *take any fish store's advice. 

They are just looking to sell a few fish, and it looks like you got the short end of the stick because of it. 

I know what I am talking about. Though I am only 10 months into the fishkeeping world myself, I have read enough stuff to become a pro. I have had hardly any deaths out of my cichlids yet. 

Trust me when I say Wal-Mart has sick fish... been there, done that as well. I wouldn't be superised if those oscars were hybrid...


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

awwww now i want to go and bring them back so they dont die on me but that wud prolly just kill them faster .. should i put them in a tank ive had set up for awhile and try to cycle the tank? or would that just stress them out more and kill them faster? I really hope they live.. my boyfriends lived so maybe ill have some good luck and they will be alright..


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

hybrid? ... sorry lol


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Hybrid... mixed species fish... mutt fish. 

If you have a tank that is already well cycled, and has the right inhabitants (not all fish go together), you could take them out and cycle the tank. That would be what I would do.

What other fish are in this other tank, and what is the size?


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

if they live im really excited to try and play with them.. ive read on a few sites that some owners pet them on occasion.. its not good for them but they love it sometimes. my boyfriends gona try to slowly try and pet his now. not alot just stroke him a bit to show affection.. i read that one guy got his to push a ping pong ball around the top of the tank and whenever he reanchors the plants and puts his arm in there they swim around his arm liek a cat would go around your leg..! if anyone has ever had an oscar and has taught them i gues you would say to be able to do these things im really interested in learning how to do it properly so that i dont stress the fish ! any advice is appreciated


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

i have it inmy room beside the 30 gallon and its just a 10 gallon but theres only a goldfish in it and the only reason its in there is because my mom has a pond in the backyard and a guy gaveher some stuff that would supposedly clear the water up because it was murky but instead it killled all the fish except this one.. she had a like 18 inch sucker and about 15 large goldfish adn this one was one of the smallest and it survived somehow.. all the other ones died from chemical cause their eyes were white.. but this one didnt :S its reallly weird. my mom decided to name him lucky


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

i would take the goldfish out and put it somewhere else though.. he would be able to survive in the 30 gallon because hes strong.. he was in tehre for about 36 hours before i put the oscars in and moved him out ..and he was happy in there he wasnt stressed


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Nope... won't work.

Most cichlids are aggressive, no matter the size. So that is a no go there.. 

I say go out and get some Bio-Spira SOON and get it in there... that will help your tank get cycled quicker.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

i wonder why all my other fish didnt die..:S and why my boyfriends fish isnt dead... he actually told me that when he first got it he was a reallly big dumb ass and just filled up a huge old lizard tank and put his oscar and a few other ones in there.. he didnt know anythign at all but they survived.. the only one that didnt survive..didnt die till he was a bit bigger and that was only because there was other cichlids in the tank who got hungry and decided to chew a hole threw the albino oscar cuz they were hungry


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

What you have to understand about fish is that they may look normal and "happy", when they are in reality stressed and/or sick and/or dying. In the wild, if I sick fish started flopping around and acting sick, it would be the target for other fish. So they need to conceal their suffering as long as they can and hopefully recover (without being eaten by a bigger fish). Oftentimes, in aquariums, they look like they are fine until the last day before they die, and by that time, it's too late to do anything about.

In this case, your fish are obviously unhappy - lying at the bottom of the tank isn't normal. As Laura Ann said, get some Bio-Spira and put it in your tank. This will put some of those beneficial bacteria in your tank, and they can start breaking down the ammonia which the oscars produced (and which is slowly killing your oscars).

That's how you "quickly" cycle a tank, without hurting any fish. You fill your tank with water, add your substrate (gravel), filter, heater, and put in some bio-spira or other cycling product. It's also helpful to put in some water from another, cycled tank. Or some gunk from an established filter. All that will provide the bacteria needed.

I suggest you invest in a testing kit. That way you will see plain and simple what is hurting your fish.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Im glad that you are enthusiastic about helping your fish and you are taking the advice we give here seriously... good job on your part.

Secondly, your experiences of just throwing fish in and you keeping them alive is very lucky. Seems as though newbies often get luckier than us veterens. 

I'd like to ask, how long has your boyfriends tank been up and running for? If its been going for more than 5 weeks, you could definately add a filter cartridge from his tank to your tank... or some gravel. This will help jump start your cycle. Also, just out of curiousity, what is his oscar in now?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Laura Ann said:


> Take my advice... never... *EVER *take any fish store's advice.


There are some really great fish stores out there. This statement only discourages people from the hobby.............




Laura Ann said:


> I know what I am talking about. Though I am only 10 months into the fishkeeping world myself, I have read enough stuff to become a pro. I have had hardly any deaths out of my cichlids yet.


A pro? I seriously doubt it. I've been keeping fish for over 16 years (and other people here much much longer), and I would in no way consider myself a pro. Reading does not make one a pro either, experience is the first step. There are aspects to this hobby you cant learn from reading.... You'll also find the more you read, the less you know....


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

If this is a brand new tank (only a couple of days) the problem right now is not the cycling. It will be in the next few weeks or sooner though. If the fish are huddling at the bottom there are a couple of things you can try. One - are there decorations, plants, rocks etc so they have some place to hide to make them more secure. 2) How is the temperature? Warm enough for them? 3) Do they have any obvious disease symptoms - Are there any little white spots on them (like grains of salt). Are their fins clamped down tight to their body. Are their gills red looking. Any poop trailing from them. Water conditions - Do you know the pH of the tank?

I'm guessing the one is probably sick. But don't treat it until you see any of the above symptoms. Often medicine just makes it worse. Walmarts tend to have sick fish imho, and as each banks of tanks are on a central filter, any problems spread from tank to tank.

My first recommendation would be to raise the temp a smidgen, and perhaps add a little salt (couple of teaspoons or a little more). Oscars tend to be pretty sturdy. Keep us posted.

By the way, you can EASILY transport fish 3 hours from a good pet store. Well bagged fish can last several hours. People buy them at Fish club auctions all the time. I bought fish at the American Cichlid Association convention in Chicago, and drove them back to Ohio. I did use killie fish boxes though, as I had some larger fish (5 inches). The small plastic rectangular aquarium with the plastic top with openings and a handle.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> There are some really great fish stores out there. This statement only discourages people from the hobby.............


The "trick" is being able to discern good advice from bad advice. And being able to coroborrate advice with research. Let me put it this way: if you go to a petstore, and you see a little oscar, love, and ask to buy it, and the sales clerk doesn't say anything or says he will fit in your tank (unless your tank is 75 gallons), I wouldn't take his advice ever again (lol). If you go to a petstore and they ask about your tank size and possibly discourage you from buying certain fish, then good on them. My LFS is like that. I'm not a fan of their service, but they are always helpful and ready to say "no, that fish won't go in your tank".

Before buying anything, research it. Even if it's a guppy or a goldfish. Ask questions at petstores, forums, and google. There is a lot of conflicting and incorrect information out there, but if you read enough, you can make sense of it all 

IME, anyone who calls themselves a pro usually isn't  Being a pro typically implies that you can cease learning and research efforts. And there is always more to learn. I've been into fishies since I was a kid (albeit not always intelligently) but the only thing I'm a pro at is pooring Coke into a glass to the rim without spilling the foam


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

Babyalbino: It's hard to sex oscars. I met a woman recently who did breed them, but she started with 6 and let them grow up together, then when they paired off, pulled the others and put them in another tank. She had a really big tank for them as well.

Damon: Isn't it something - the longer you keep fish, the less likely you are to think you're an expert? LOL


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

How true Judy, how true.............


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Zoe said:


> Before buying anything, research it. Even if it's a guppy or a goldfish. Ask questions at petstores, forums, and google. There is a lot of conflicting and incorrect information out there, but if you read enough, you can make sense of it all
> 
> IME, anyone who calls themselves a pro usually isn't  Being a pro typically implies that you can cease learning and research efforts. And there is always more to learn.


I would have to agree with the above statements.

When it comes to buying fish, what I do is take a notebook to the store with me and I peruse the tanks and write down the name of every fish I find that looks interesting. Then I go home and start researching information one each one of them - environmental requirements, compatibility, etc. Then I can weed out the ones that are inappropriate for my tanks and that are beyond my level of care and can get the ones that I like that have the best chance of staying alive.

I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about a number of things regarding fishkeeping, but by no means am I anywhere near a "pro." I know more about certain topics than others (i.e., I'm pretty knowledgeable about puffers) but even as far as those I know the most about, I know that there's a whole lot more to be learned. Also, things in this hobby are constantly in flux, so there's always something new to be learned.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

thank you everyone sooo much for all your help !! you will b happy to know as soon as i woke up this morning i rushed to the pet store to find some of that bio spira- they didnt have that exact brand but they had somethign called cycle and it does the same thing.. 5 minutes after i put it in there.. the one oscar who seems more sick moved and started swimmin aroudn the tank a bit  his tank has been running for about 2 weeks .. his oscar is in a 60 gallon now.. its way too small for him i know, but hes always been in a smaller tank.. and my boyfriend doesnt have money or room for a bigger tank. .. we are gettin our own place sooner than later and thats when were going to try and find a 2nd hand tank thats at least 100 gallons.. he was only 14 when he first got it and he didnt have a clue about fish at the beginning.. 
there is lots of plants in there for them and the temperature is pretty warm. its around 80.. my bfs oscar likes it real warm- around 86-88!!

they dont have any disease symptoms.. the ph is 7.4-7.6 now that i know i can transport fish 3 hours then im gona start buying them at the store 3 hours away.. itll be well worth it.. i reallly hope my oscars pull through.. im a wimp but i didnt get any sleep last nite after you told me they were going to die. i lied on my bed watching their tank all nite.. i even cried a few times  
i cant thank you all enough for all the help.. hopefully my babies will pull through and ill have 2 beautiful fish to entertain me.. ill keep you posted!


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Cycle doesn't work. I would not go to that petstore anymore. The only thing they are helping is their financial situation.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Cycle has a reputation for not being the best at cycling tanks (I except it works at least a little - I used to use it and I've started tanks with it and nothing died)... But if your boyfriend's tank is established, take a bucket of water, some gravel, and a filter sponge from his tank and put it in your's. That will do the trick.

60 gallons is not so bad for an oscar. Bigger is better, I would not recommend anything under 75gallons for one oscar, but 60 gallons is a lot better than it could be.

Congratulations on being so willing to do what it takes to keep your fish healthy  It seems some people just don't really care and just want to have a fishtank with pretty fish in it.



> Cycle doesn't work. I would not go to that petstore anymore. The only thing they are helping is their financial situation.


That's a little harsh  The petstore is just carrier! Just make educated decisions, to the best of your ability, when purchasing fish or products from _any_ petstore.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

well if anyone doesnt care bout keeping anything so beautiful alive then they are monsters.. i love watching the fish swim around i could sit in front of it for hours and i have .. i fall asleep watching them.. i love them. they are amazing animals !! 

its the only thing any store in my town has.. i looked in 3 different stores.. and it was the only thing anywhere close to being what i needed .. do u think i should put more than what they reccomend in then since itdoesnt work the best? it says it wont kill them if you aceidently put too much in.. so maybe upping the dosage will make it work better? the box says that its new and improved... more concentrated .. is that good..


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

he is swimming more !!  he isnt laying on the bottom right now !!! im happy i hope he keeps it up !!


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

You can put more in. Can't hurt. Also get some of your boyfriend's tank water and substrate. That will really, really help.

Also, I know it's expensive, but you MUST invest in a testing kit. You can get a decent complete one for 25-35$. Wouldn't you like to exactly where the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels are in your tank? It will tell you exactly why your fish are having problems, if you notice they are sick.

Zoe


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

yeah .. im going to beg my mom to lend me some money for a kit.. ive already spent around 100$ on my tank in the last few days.. lol. they are worth it though.. he layed back down on the bottom .. i thought they might like more privacy so i put a log ornament from one of my tanks i have set up in my living room in there and hes hiding behind it so hopefully he will get better.. he doesnt seem to have any visual symtpoms.. i took some water from the tank ive had set up since august and put it in there .. 
im thinking that the reason the other fish didnt die is because i put about 24 feeder fish in the tank for 5 days before i put other fish in there and then i fed the feeders to my bfs oscar.. that probably helped it cycle a whole lot.. 
thanks again everyone  im soo greateful that i found this community my babies might have been dead tomorrow! im taking some pictures !! youwill see them on here soon


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

they are both hiding in the ornament  .. 
ooo another questionnn! sorrry for being a pest .. would it stress them out right now if i put a background on it.. i just found one.. they were out of the size i needed at the store but i found one in my loft that fits.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

No, fish typically feel more secure with a background on the tank.

Keeping fish isn't cheap, especially when you're just starting out. Save your pennies!


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

No, fish typically feel more secure with a background on the tank.

Keeping fish isn't cheap, especially when you're just starting out. Save your pennies!


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

haa i noticed.. i spend all my money on them !


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

whenver i turn their light off.. they swim around...


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

typical  getting used to their surrounding yet.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

should i keep their light off in the day and on at night maybe? because they always get scared anytime anyone comes in the room.. and then if htey survive and get used to people ill switch it up? or is that a bad idea?? i dont want to do anything that;ll screw them upp


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

they are both swimming around the tank now im sOOOOO happy ! i owe you guys everything !! hhehehee  lol


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

By the way, when you go to the out of town fish store, you want to keep the fish warm on the way home - A small cooler, insulated lunch bag, etc. do a good job. If I don't have anything else, I'll wrap a sweater around the bag.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

http://marineland.com/dealers/order_biospira.asp


Congrats on being so willing to learn! The bio-spira really does work, and will keep your fish alive! Oscars are very fast growers, and will very soon outgrow that tank, but you seem to know that. I tihnk your bf's oscar can probably stay in the 60, seeing as hes only 11" yet, but you should eventually buy your O's a big tank, like 100+ gallons.

Good Luck!


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

yeah when we get our own place in a few months we plan to get a tank thats at least 100 gallons


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

*ahhhhhhhh HELP!*

okay now the one that was swimming around more and wasnt hiding as much or laying on the bottom as much is the one laying on the bottom and his gills are moving very slowly while the other ones are moving at a regular speed ... the one who seemed to be more sick at the start is now the one who seems more healthy.. just over nite!  my mom is bringing me to get an ammonia and nitrate tester thing in 20 mintues when she gets home! does anyone know whats happenning??


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Sounds like he is succumbing to the elevated levels ammonia etc in the tank. He may die, just so you are ready for that. You need that test kit ASAP to determine what the problem is, exactly.

Zoe


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

^ What she said. Dont be too let down if these guys die on you, and depending on ow long it takes you to get the 100 gallon, they may be stunted.

You probly DO have high ammonia, and that is whats causing the heavy breathing


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

test kit says my ammonia levels are at zero


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## thebrick (Dec 20, 2006)

I recently got 2 Tiger oscars. About the same size and Mine did the exact thing you are mentioning. 

took my guys roughly a week to get use to the tank. Now they swim all over and jump out of the water when its feeding time. They are a hoot to watch. One thing ive noticed is one of mine is growing rapildly faster then the other one. Both eat equal amounts since one likes the pellets and the other doesnt and one likes the blood worms and the other doesnt. I also feed them the occasional feeder after quarintining it and all that fun stuff. 

Both look and act healthy.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Dont reply to old posts... this thread was last posted 2 months ago.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)




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