# What do you do with new arrivals?



## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

I think I need a reality check on what other people do.

I sent some nice healthy baby bushynose cross country this past week. She wouldn't pay for Express. I conditioned the fish, first no protein, then constant fresh water and complete fasting. Each fish went into it's own breather bag with a LOT of water, as much as will fit in a 4"x8" bag. Double insulated box. Off they go at 8:00 am.

It takes the 3 days plus the time zone difference etc. so it's really 3 1/2 days total. The buyer says she thinks they have a touch of fin rot but hopes dosing the tank with a 1/2 dose of Parasite Clear will take care of that. A parasite med for fin rot? If not she will resort to stronger measures. Whatever that means. She knows they are home bred fish.

I replied that they don't have parasites, and if there is any uneven edge to the fins it would be ammonia burn, please be careful with meds. After I thought about it ammonia burn was rather unlikely with the conditioning, large amount of water, individual bagging and such little fish.

Later she writes that the fin rot might just be the light colored trailing edge of the tail fin. (duh) She knows *lots* of people treat new arrivals this way with no problem blah blah blah.

It's not my personal choice but I do understand that some people choose to medicate all new fish as a precaution. But adding the new fish to the main tank and treating the whole tank every time you add a new fish is new to me. If you are going to use that approach it's done in a Q/T tank. Right? Am I living on another planet?

I do not have a one size fits all approach to new fish, you all probably don't either. If I am very familiar with the person I am getting the fish from, know how they manage their tanks, know they bred the fish at home, know they don't bring in a lot of wild fish and know their protocol for using meds I don't do a really long careful quarantine unless there is clear signs of trouble. It's as much to make sure no new fish have damage and all are eating well than it is to protect my own fish. 

From there I increase the the amount of time the fish are in the Q/T tank depending on the source/seller/species. This is completely separate than acclimating new fish, the *just dump them in* approach to a slow drip of local water.

I guess the reason this is troubling is that bushynose don't tolerate all meds equally. A perfectly healthy little fish, a little stressed from 2 or 3 days of shipping, could be made sick if the wrong med is used as a *precaution*. I take real care that the fish are well prepared for shipping and it is frustrating that the effort could be in vain.

Sure, if it bothered me that much I could stop breeding, selling and/or shipping fish. But it only takes a moment to tell the buyer that a fish like a BN needs to get plenty of fiber, give it some wood and foods like zucchini, green, peas and green beans. Adding a few words to the effect of "and if your routinely medicate new fish upon arrival, please use caution and avoid meds with... in them".

Do you routinely medicate new fish? Your thoughts?

violet


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## Guest (May 7, 2006)

violet said:


> Each fish went into it's own breather bag with a LOT of water, as much as will fit in a 4"x8" bag.


This is not a good idea. You should actually have more air than water in the bag because you want plenty of oxygen in there for the fish.


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## Guest (May 7, 2006)

I actually don't quarentine my new fish. I make sure I buy them from reputable LFS and that the tanks are clean. I look for diseases on the fish I want and the others in the tank. Alot of times I will look for diseases in the other tanks and will not buy any if the other fish have something wrong. I don't medicate unless they have some type of disease.

I haven't lost many fish by using this method. I have only had maybe one case of ich after adding new fish (out of about 60-70 fish).

I have thought about getting a QT, but really don't have the money or room for one. If I got a QT for the new tank I am setting up, I wouldn't have money to buy equipment and stuff for the tank. So I'll just keep using my method.

I do acclimate the fish. I float the bag for about 30 mins. Then I open the bag and pour some tank water in. I then let the bag float for 30 more mins. Then I pour more tank water in and let it float for 15 mins. Then I put the fish into the tank.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

> This is not a good idea. You should actually have more air than water in the bag because you want plenty of oxygen in there for the fish.


Kordon Breather Bags are gas permeable. They are made to be use with NO air at all. CO2 can pass out of the bag and O2 can pass into the bag. A big advantage is they can't slosh. 

See: http://www.novalek.com/kpd74.htm

Kristin, I completely understand if you have one tank and no room/$$$/or other reason not to be able to have a Q/T tank. This girl's choice to automatically medicate a whole tank every time she gets a new fish is what I am having a hard time grasping.

Maybe I should have given less background. I am really just wondering if a lot of people routinely medicate new fish, especially home bred fish, without any obvious reason.

Some people don't get the majority of their fish from a good LFS. I buy fish sight unseen and have them shpped or have covert meetings in parking lots where bags of fry are exchanged. Some of my fish I just couldn't get at a local store at any price.

violet


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## dwool36 (Jan 31, 2006)

I do not medicate nor do I acclimate any of my fish unless there are obvious signs of disease. Floating, especially with breather bags, cuts off the o2 supply and adds to the stress.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

With just about all my fish, I drip acclimate them.

Ecspecially with the more sensitive and expensive ones lol. I don't treat any new additions for ANYTHING usually unless they are still showing bad signs after a few weeks. Sometimes when fish are first recieved they aren't exactly going to look right and there is always going to be something that looks like a disease may it be a bad appetite or bad coloration. Usually if you leave them alone for a while they get better..


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## Scy64 (Apr 23, 2006)

For all my fish, I've really don't nothing special but rinse off the outside of the bag, and let the bag float for 15-20 minutes to get the water temps the same. I've had fish with varous medical problems spring up, but they were things that only occured in one fish (and didn't spread to others). I've never had old fish get sick due to new fish coming in.

Now that I have a hospital tank though, I might be more willing to quarinten the fish. I don't know if I'd use anything othe then melafix or pimafix, but the quarinten would be more to make sure the fish dosen't develop anything from the stress it indured on the way home and all that. I'd be wary though- especially if the fish cost lots of mony (my most expensive fish was $8 with no hospital tank avaiable).


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## garfieldnfish (Jan 18, 2005)

I ship fish using breather bags as well and you do fill them as much as possible with water to reduce water sloshing around in the bag.

When I get new fish, I do not quarantine them either if they look healthy and they came from another aquarium. I do however, quarantine wild caught fish, if possible.

How you should get fish used to your tank depends on the circumstances:

A. Store bought, short trip home. I put their water (and the fish) in a bucket and add some of my tank water over the next hour until there is about 2/3 of my water in the bucket. Then I net the fish and add him to my tank.

B. Overnight Express: If I get a fish shipped to me using overnight express I do the same as above

C. Fish shipped in transit 3 days or more, using regular bags. I fill a bucket with my tank water, add prime or amquel to this water, float the unopened bag in the bucket until the temp is the same. Then I cut open the bag, drain out all the water (into the sink or bathtub, not into the bucket with my tank water) hand pick out the fish and add him to my tank water in the bucket. I leave him in this bucket for a few minutes to make sure he is acting healthy and then add him to my tank.

D. Fish shipped in transit 3 days or more using breather bags. I float the bag in a bucket of tank water until the temps is the same, add prime to the bucket, open the bag and let fish and tank water go into the bucket.

The difference between C and D and discarding or adding the bag water is because of the bags used. The breather bag will exchange oxygen and the ammonia level will be the same opened or unopened. In regular bags the ammonia toxic level goes up the moment oxygen enters the bags and makes it more lethal in an instant. So discarding that water and adding fish to a different ph level will be less harmful then the sudden increase in ammonia toxic levels. I had this explained to be by an importer. This is supposed to be the method importers use when fish have been in transit for some time.

So far this has worked out pretty well.
I had some fish shipped to me from Peru. The airline lost the box for 2 days and I expected a box of dead fish once I got them. But with this bucket and Prime method, almost all the fish survived. I only lost 5 out of 19 fish and 3 of those arrived dead. The rest recouped fine and are well and healthy in my tanks now.


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

I have bought quite a few home bred fish and have never seen the need to medicate. THey just need a chance to de-stress. BN's especially are very good travelers, but then I always pay for express. I don't like the thought of them in transit for 2 or 3 days.

I never even acclimate mine. As soon as they arrive, I remove them from the travel water and put them in nice clean water in a QT tank where I work since I have them shipped there. The tank is mobile (5 gallons) and I bring it home and dip them into whatever tank they are going too. I have never lost one this way.


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

dwool36 said:


> I do not medicate nor do I acclimate any of my fish unless there are obvious signs of disease. .


same here


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I usually quarantine and acclimate whenever possible.
I consider first the source. If the fish came from a petshop, then they are of course infested with all manner of nasty stuff and automatically get quarantined. If I caught them myself, they are probably going to be clean. If they came from someone else's tank, I usually quarantine.

I test the shipping water vs the tank water to decide how much acclimation is needed, and then I factor in the shipping time and shipping method.

I almost never have any problems. Never say never, though; yesterday I caught a bunch of beauties and "staggering" would be a fair word to use to describe the losses I suffered. Gasoline, a day's lost wages, a bunch of extra emergency equipment... I have 180 bucks in these fish and have only half of them remaining to show for it, and all because *I forgot to leave the air conditioners running in my house.* Coldwater fish can't survive a sweltering hot house the day they're caught. I brought back 4 kinds, and three species are all fine & dandy with no losses, but the real prize species of the lot has been decimated. It's a sad day for me. I acclimated the heck out them and tried every trick in the book, but this species is notoriously difficult to transport, and I guess I wasn't fated to get lucky this time. Anyway, that leads to my next point, which is to consider the species along with the other factors.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

Thank you all for your responses. With not one of you making mention of routinely medicating all new fish with no cause I feel a bit better. Glad it's not the norm.

Hey 'OldSalt, spill the beans, just what fish did you find & capture? I know it will make me wish I had good hunting grounds nearby! Very unfortunate there were so many losses.  

violet


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Oh, I didn't say that I don't medicate.
For many people, "quarantine" only means keeping the new fish separate for awhile before putting them in a show tank.
For a guy like me, quarantine means full prophylaxis, that is, treating them for everything they would likely have even if they "look" okay. I used to be a professional, you see, and there was no room for error. Old habits die hard.

As for the fish I caught, there were some:
_Elassoma zonatum
Notropis chrosomus
Pteronotropis welaka
Etheostoma swainii_
and some weird little thing I have yet to identify. It's orange.
The first is a Pygmy Sunfish, which is really closer kin to a stickleback than to any sunfish.
The second is the most colorful fish in the country, the Rainbow Shiner.
The third is the Bluenose Shiner, a too-delicate but breathtaking stunner.
The fourth is a darter, the Gulf Darter. Nothing fancy, but fun.

Where are you, Violet? The odds are that there are indeed some nifty species in your area.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

'OldSalt, how did I know you were going to say Rainbow Shiners? Argh! *sigh* I've begun gathering possible items to put together a cool/cold water setup in the basement for the summer months, limited AC in the house. Going to monitor the temps down there this summer. Until I know I can keep them cool enough year round I try not to even think about fish like that. Gosh they are lovely. 

I'm on the N. Shòre of MA, but it's not much different than when I was in southeast NH. There have been some very dry summers recently and a lot of already endangered streams & rivers have had parts go dry, mud & dead fish. Run-off, pollution and introduced species have taken their toll at least as much.

Little pretty fish I remember from when I was a kid are gone. That WAS kind of a while ago. Heck the Wooly Mammoth is gone too.

I don't do it as a rule but there ARE situations where I would medicate new fish during quarantine. I don't think that is inappropriate in itself, hope I didn't come off sounding totally anti-meds. I don't normally medicate, if in doubt I put a few in gups, danios, tetras or something INTO the Q/T tank and see if they get sick.

But immediately putting fish into a show tank and using 1/2 strength meds on that tank EVERY time you add new fish seems like a recipe for possible drug resistant problems. Just seemed weird.

thanks,
violet


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

"_...But immediately putting fish into a show tank and using 1/2 strength meds on that tank EVERY time you add new fish seems like a recipe for possible drug resistant problems. Just seemed weird."_


Oh absolutely, that's just stupid.

By the way, in the pictures section ( NOT pic-o-the-month section ) I posted a thread called "the fish I keep." There are pics of some of the fish I listed.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Too many people are still floating bags to acclimate fish. Please do a search on this site to learn why this is a very bad idea. Do you ever watch " Myth Busters" on TV? Floating a bag is a "myth" in our hobby that needs to be BUSTED.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

What's your method Ron? I use my *New Fish Bucket*. Out of the bag(s) and into the bucket ASAP. Immediately add a little of my local water with a bit of Prime to help with ammonia. Then a drip, fast or slow depending on fish, source, time in transit etc. Could be 2 hours, could be 12. Remove water as volume gets significant if needed. Then net into Q/T tank which has just had a big waterchange using the source I used for drip.

violet

ps: sweet fish 'Old Salt! Gotta get me some of those Rainbow Shiners. You might be a bad influence upon me. I like that.


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## old bluenose (Apr 22, 2010)

Shiners shipped for several days often seem to have some fin rot on arrival.It should heal over in a few days most of the time.I think nitrate buildup in the bags during is the cause and once in fresh water they'll heal up.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Tell us more about the problems with floating please!


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## Chrispy (Oct 28, 2007)

yeah, I always float bags as I thought it was the thing to do. I will switch to the bucket, that seam easier. but tell why it is so bad please. teach us lol


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