# betta cruelty



## google

at mi pet store, they sell bettas in jars!
i mean they deserve way better than that!!!
how about u pplz pet shops? r they ALWAYS in jars??


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## chrisinha

jars?

the pet stores here sell bettas in cups!!! i just bought one today! i feel so sorry for them!


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## shev

Ive seen them in 8 oz cups also


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## Lexus

You must realize that those cups/jars are temporary. There is no way to sell large amounts of bettas if you keep one per tank as most of the time the fish in the tanks are not compatible with bettas. Also bettas naturally live in puddles in rice paddies. 

At Walmart (i work in Pets) we change the water once a week and feed them once a week... if that is they even stay on the shelf that long. We sell over 100 bettas per week. Were would we keep all of them! Some pet stores keep them in little containers that hang on the side of the tank. We do not do that because of the rate of sales. Often times there is no one in pets so how would we sell the bettas? 

I agree that they shouldnt live out their life in these small containers but for temporary sale purposes I see no problem with it. 

There are many breeders that keep their bettas in quart jars. They usually have a water circulation system hooked up to them.


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## google

lexus...
still, the shouldnt b stuck in there, even 4 temporarily. i dont see guppies or angelfish in jars/ cups, so why should THEY suffer???


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## thatsfishy

Guppies and Angels also don't fight each other to death when in the same tank! Petstores have to be economical and cannot put up 100 10g tanks for each shipment of bettas they get. And if they would be required to do so, rest assured that bettas would not be as readily available or inexpensive as they are now.


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## maxpayne_lhp

Yeah, Lexus and Thatfishy were right. That's impossible to keep all of them in 1 tank nor seperate them in tanks. Well, Vietnamese petshops do that do! And, the traditional art in fish keeping guys in China and Vietnam did that too! As they bettas are quite hardy. They did place a cabomba in each jar! 
And I think that it's OK for temporary keepingonly. In the past, some even keep them that way FOR LONG !!! That was not so nice though!


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## (RC)

Most pet stores sell most if not all the Bettas they get in each week before the next shipment comes in so the fish you see in cups are there for less then a week. To tell you the truth they have more water in that cup then they did when they were shipped from overseas.


RC


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## maxpayne_lhp

I see! Well, I wonder how they keep the fish alive (especially marune ones) during the shipment? Have any heared about a method that they 'stun'_make the fish sleep for ease for transportation?


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## Vivid-Dawn

Here’s my two cents on the matter (and keep in mind, this is just my own opinion):

Yeah, the cups are little, but they do sell out pretty fast. It’s the people that take them home and _keep_ them in those cups that are being cruel. Or heck, even the ones that put them in a vase, with a plant, and give them as gifts saying “Oh, they’ll eat the plant roots, don’t worry.” (I had this done to me one Christmas...I had kept a betta a couple years before, and asked “are you _sure_ I don’t need to feed it those little food bits?” and they said yes. Needless to say, he was dead within 2 weeks...I also didn’t have a heater, and as I said, it was winter)

So now, I’m of the opinion they need more room - one gallon at the minimum, at least be kept in a warm room...and preferably with a filter - even a small ‘sponge’ one. Here’s a weird thing, though!

I wanted to start doing fish as a serious hobby (not just keep a betta for looks, like I did a few years before). So I figured they’d be happier if they had room to actually do stuff, and some company! I got a ten gallon tank, set it up and everything. I got a betta, guppies, neon and a dalmation molly. Only _after_ I did this, I did research, and found out bettas not only fight with themselves (I already knew not to get two, thank goodness! LOL), but that they’d nip the fins of other colorful fish.
To my surprise, my guppies would gang up on the poor guy, and nip _his_ fins! And my molly wouldn’t bite at the betta, but would pester and annoy him. So I decided maybe a 10gal community wasn’t so good. I couldn’t afford (or have room) for another one.
But I was still wanting him to have plenty of room. My husband keeps a betta in a 2.5 gallon tank, and he does fine. So I went and bought a 2.5 gallon tank, and I think he’s happier without being harassed so much. There’s no heater, but I do have a thermometer...I myself like warmth, and the temp. is about 70ish. He’s also got a small filter that uses airation, too. So I don’t think I’m being too mean 

I still think he’s lonely, though. I guess they keep to themselves, even in the wild...but I still wonder if I should get some little fish to make it not so boring in there. I’d like 3 neons, but then I figure I’d have to upgrade to a 5 gal. tank... sigh!


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## (RC)

With some fish they add drugs to calm the fish during shipment, but that is something they use for fish like discus. At one time Bettas were shipped from overseas between sheets of wet newspaper so things have improved since then.


RC


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## Lexus

They drug our Tinfoil barbs and when they come in they twitch and swim circles for a couple of hours. Its sad to watch.


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## bettaboi

WOW :shock: thats betta crulty


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## MB75

Bettas are labyrinth fish so they use oxugen in air and not in water. That is why they can _temporarily _be transported in small amounts of water and much air. 

But at home you should give them more room, as more and more people already have realized.  

Vivid-Dawn: Bettas can be kept in community tanks, but you have to choose the company wisely. Some smaller tetras or rasboras would do nicely. Neon tetras prefer a bit cooler temperature than bettas, but cardinal tetras like the same tamperature as bettas so they go together nicely. Also harlequin rasboras and miniature rasboras are good companions for bettas. Just to name few. Platied and guppies are not suitable tank mates, as you already learned.


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## ravekiss

The Petco in my neighborhodd have the bettas in tiny containers where their top fin will go above water surface if the try to flare. The width of the cup is less than an inch longer than the betta!! Try to imagine that. Its like the little cups restaurants give you dips in.


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## Fish n chips

It doesnt matter as much with Betts of how much water you have still have some thoe :roll:


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## guppyart

the bettas at my petland are so boring cause they are kept in containers that there is no space to swim or be active so they look so boring so my parents won't let me buy some but I do have a gold gourami that swims about and chases the rosy barbs that are with him thats my 2 cents


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## google

they could put them with corys. besides, the pplz can get a smaller stock each time until they run out


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## anasfire23

I went to check out a new petstore for female betta's the other week but found only males and they were being kept in tiny little round mini replica's of the round fish bowl that weren't even long enough for em to swim in and the others were being kept in small hexagon shaped plastic tanks stacked about 10 tanks wide and 3 tanks high. As I looked through them I noticed one on the bottom line that was dead and has velvet growing all over him. It made me think how long he must have been there, and if the pet shop owners hadn't noticed that he was dead then how long had it been since they had their water changed or even fed? I'm going back to that shopping centre tomorrow so I am going to check to see if the dead one is still there and if it is I plan to bring it to the attention of the staf that they obviously ned to maintain there stock of betta's in a more appropriate manner and then I'll check back every few weeks and if I notice the same behaviour I plan to report them to the RSPCA (animal welfare organisation for all you non-australians)


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## maxpayne_lhp

Good plan! Fish and animals in general are not supposed to be mistreated! Once you get to the petshop, please post up if the betta is still there.
See ya!


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## osteoporoosi

I'm so happy that it is not a trend here to keep bettas (or any other kind of fish)
in jars. I bet some people do it, even if we have a law that forbids us to keep fish permanently in tanks under 10 gallons.
If I saw something like that in my local petstore, I would do a report of somekind.
Sure there is something that real fishkeepers could do to prevent things like this?


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## google

ravekis:
The Petco in my neighborhodd have the bettas in tiny containers where their top fin will go above water surface if the try to flare. The width of the cup is less than an inch longer than the betta!! Try to imagine that. Its like the little cups restaurants give you dips in.

so sad! to thoese ppl who dont oppose to bettas in cups, id like YOU to try and fit in a glass closet to be shown in a museum for a week. take THAT.


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## (RC)

if your not happy with how the store sells it's bettas don't buy them there. Find someplace else to buy them and the store will not sell as many...so they will not bring in as many to put in little cups. It's supply and demand. As long as people keep buying them from stores that keep there Bettas in little cups the store is going to keep selling them. Everytime someone "rescues" one from a little cup the store buys 3 more with the money....


RC


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## google

so u guys would like it if you were sold in dip cups???!!!


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## maxpayne_lhp

Sorry to interupt, dudes.



anasfire23 @ Wed Feb 02 said:


> I went to check out a new petstore for female betta's the other week but found only males and they were being kept in tiny little round mini replica's of the round fish bowl that weren't even long enough for em to swim in and the others were being kept in small hexagon shaped plastic tanks stacked about 10 tanks wide and 3 tanks high. As I looked through them I noticed one on the bottom line that was dead and has velvet growing all over him. It made me think how long he must have been there, and if the pet shop owners hadn't noticed that he was dead then how long had it been since they had their water changed or even fed? I'm going back to that shopping centre tomorrow so I am going to check to see if the dead one is still there and if it is I plan to bring it to the attention of the staf that they obviously ned to maintain there stock of betta's in a more appropriate manner and then I'll check back every few weeks and if I notice the same behaviour I plan to report them to the RSPCA (animal welfare organisation for all you non-australians)


But I don't think she's gotten back to the store and do the plan.


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## (RC)

google,

Like it or not there is a difference between a person and a fish. Keeping a fish in a jar doesn't compare to a person. I spawn 3000+ Bettas a year and only keep maybe at most 300. The rest get culled. It's a fact of breeding Bettas and most other fish for that matter.


RC


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## thatsfishy

google @ Fri Feb 04 said:


> so u guys would like it if you were sold in dip cups???!!!


If we'd be small enough to be sold in any cup, I don't think we'd be in this forum discussing the issue! We would "worry" about our next meal, hide or defend ourselves from predators and procreate ... all instinctively - not because of a concious choice.


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## anasfire23

I went to the petstore today and that fish wasn't there. They've changed the set up and put alot of the betta's into larger containers, still in the hexagonal ones but not so many in the tiny little round ones. I bought a female today from them, so I am hoping i'll have some fry soon.


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## (RC)

Sounds like your store is catching on.


RC


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## maxpayne_lhp

However, it's good that the fish wasn't there. I wonder how'll he be if he was there. :S


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## Cichlid Man

Also, bettas are one of those fish that don't move around much so they don't need large tanks. Some bettas even prefer to be kept in smaller tanks because it mimics their natural habitat.


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## thatsfishy

I have to disagree with that statement that a small tank or cup "mimics their natural habitat." The swamps and race paddies that make up bettas natural habitat can be quite large. Give a betta a big tank and you'll see he'll be happy to roam around in it. 

However, that still doesn't make it feasable for a pet store to put 100 10g tanks up for each shipment they get or for breeders to have to rent a warehouse to house their males. It's a matter of circumstance and maitenance. A betta kept in a unheated, unfiltered 10g that hasn't had a wc in 6 month and has bacteria eaten away his fins isn't any better off then those kept for a few days in a cup in a lfs, is it?


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## google

you ppl dont have feelings!!! they are living thingz too, you know. they deserve good treatment!!!!


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## google

thatsfishy is right. i agree.


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## maxpayne_lhp

Come on, cool down, guys! Shoudln't make this more terrible. However, I still think that they should be kept in a comfortable place. And if the bettas get along well and be happy in small containers, I think that's ok.
Thanks


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## (RC)

I provide the best care possible for my Bettas with daily WC's and a Barracks system, but I also cull most fish from every spawn. I only keep the best fish that I have a use for. I understand the problems for fish stores selling bettas and I know why they keep them in cups. Many stores do a good job of keeping the Betta jars clean and the ones that don't I don't do business with. Stores can not keep a single fish in a tank because they need to keep as many different types of stock to stay in business. If we all starting buying all our fish/stock/food from the LFS then maybe they could afford to keep one Betta in a tank, but thats not going to happen because we want the cheapest prices we can find.


RC


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## Lexus

Very good point RC!


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## google

u guys just dont get it, do u???


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## (RC)

What don't we get ? That some stores don't take good care of there stock ? we get that. That it's not ok for a Betta to live it's whole life in a little cup ? get that also, but we also understand that it's ok for a Betta to live in a little cup of clean water for a few days until it's sold. Did you know 99% of all the Bettas you find in a fish store come from overseas and has more than likely been raised in a old flat side wiskey bottle ? One of the little 6" tall flat sided whiskey bottles. I have a picture around here someplace I'll dig out later and post it so you can see 1000's of little Bettas being raised in this way. The people that care for the fish walk on top of the bottles to feed the fish and do WC's because the bottles are so packed together on the floor. Once again let me say if you don't like the way a store takes care of it's Bettas DON"T rescue one from there because all you do it make is possible for the store to buy 3 more Bettas to not take care of. If you find a store that does a good job with it's Bettas buy some other things from the store even if it costs a little more so the store can stay in business. It's very hard for any LFS to make a profit and the good ones could use anyones business.


RC


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## Cichlid Man

thatsfishy @ Sun Feb 06 said:


> I have to disagree with that statement that a small tank or cup "mimics their natural habitat." The swamps and race paddies that make up bettas natural habitat can be quite large. Give a betta a big tank and you'll see he'll be happy to roam around in it.
> 
> However, that still doesn't make it feasable for a pet store to put 100 10g tanks up for each shipment they get or for breeders to have to rent a warehouse to house their males. It's a matter of circumstance and maitenance. A betta kept in a unheated, unfiltered 10g that hasn't had a wc in 6 month and has bacteria eaten away his fins isn't any better off then those kept for a few days in a cup in a lfs, is it?


Just think, if bettas swam everywere around the rice paddies then they would be fighting all the time. They have very small territories in the wild.
But still, I don't agree that they should be kept in jars.


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## amy84

Bettas were shipped between sheets of wet newspaper at one point?! my God, that is certainly cruelty. although, do fish really feel anything? they don't have much for brains, do they? i guess we'll never know since fish can't talk.


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## thatsfishy

Good question. Here is a great article that explores the matter: http://www.cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm

Although some folks also have a problem with the source and therefore disregard it as not credible, and some recent British study came up with a new theory that says the opposite. So now we have scientist against scientist ... which one is right, who knows .... plus both research is based on trout. Which means now we can even add to the argument by comparing bettas to trouts and wonder, which one is "smarter". Which in the end means, we really don't know until "Nemo" tells us!


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## ravekiss

Unfortunately Petco still have them in dip-sized cups...I went there a few days ago. :-(


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## google

do u guys really think they like being in those dratted cups?!


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## (RC)

I don't think a fish likes or dislikes. Fish work on a very basic level of survive or don't survive. 


RC


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## thatsfishy

google @ Thu Feb 10 said:


> do u guys really think they like being in those dratted cups?!


Ok, come on now, at least put up some real arguments, because this is getting annoying. If fish were to "like", do you honestly think they would "choose" being in a tank? Would a canary want to be kept in a cage or the horse in a stable? Why does man choose to go to work everyday instead of getting up to hunt and gather? It's pointless.

If you love your pet, then provide it with the best care possible. If you don't like how stores handle their livestock, don't buy from it. And if you think our laws do not provide proper protection, join the SPCA, PETA or whatever and work on getting them changed ... only you will need to come up with something better then "fish like or feel" if anyone is suppose to take it serious.


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## Lexus

I second that


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## google

*sigh*


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## (RC)

And with that I think this is a good point to lock this topic.


RC


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