# Let's face it, this fish thing isn't for me.



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

But I'll tell you what is.

Having a lot less fish. Maybe 6 black skirts and 2 rams.

That's about it. After a year I'm getting sick of dealing with the brown algae over and over and over. Worrying about the fish to the point of always watching them to make sure nothing goes wrong. 

I want less ornaments, less fighting and bullying, less fish waste and less cleaning. I like things simple, not complicated. Yes my cardinals and rummys are surviving but the conditions still don't seem perfect.

I try to feed less, but still there is always problems.... ahhhhhhhh... less of everything for me. 

Sorry guys, I don't seem to be the best fish keeper after all. :chair:


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey, there's no shame in needing to cut back. It can be a time-consuming hobby. A school of black skirts and a pair of rams would look nice.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

I have also cut back over the last 3 years. I went from 16 aquariums where I am now down to 8. Every tank acts different. It is a great learning experience but as mentioned extreamly time consuming. 
Somthing I have noticed is they say having a aquarium lowers your blood pressure and releaves stress. Well I guess that is for those that just buy, buy, buy, and dont care if the fish die cause they just replace it with another. But for those who really care about their pets ( or extended family) It is only relaxing part of the time. Just like any other pet.


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## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

That’s what happened to me once upon a time. 
Fish always fighting. Parameters always out of wack. Always medicating the tank for something that I thought was bad.
Finally I said no more. I got tired of it and just let it go on its own. Next thing you know I had algae all over everything.
I let it go to take its course. I still fed them but I let everything get dirty and green. I let the fish work out the differences on they're own. I stopped medicating every time I had a break out of something. I used a small med tank or jar instead. If the fish did not make it through, than so be it, at least I tried to save it.
When I finally calmed down and gained curiosity again I scraped the front and sides of the aquarium for algae. I left the real thick coat of algae on the back to help with the water. I did my vacuum and it was real dirty.
When I got done vacuuming and cleaning I saw how the fish looked happy and the water looked real clear. 
Some times (in my case any way) too much attention can be a bad thing. Some times a person just needs to step back and see what the out come will be.
Here is a sample. I bought 3 Rummy nose tetra. 3 days after I put them in the tank they came up with Ick. I took the 3 of them out and put them in a large jar with Ick treatment ASAP. I left all the other fish in the tank. During treatment one of the Tetra died but the Ick dropped off the other two and they went back into the tank. They are real healthy now.
In the past I would have panicked and dropped meds into the whole tank throwing it way off balance and stressing all my other fish out. In the past I would have had an Ick break out from all the messing around and over dosing.
I hope it all goes smooth in time for you and even though I have a hard time explaining my self I hope that some of this can help you in your Aquarium.
Oh and Merry Christmas.
Smark~


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Don't rag on yourself. It takes some people longer than others to figure it all out. You'll get the hang of it sooner or later. Just stay cool and don't fret.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Knight~Ryder said:


> Sorry guys, I don't seem to be the best fish keeper after all.


KN:

After a year of fish keeping and based upon many of your posts, IMHO, you are a very good fish keeper.

What you are doing is "right sizing" and not "down sizing".

This maintenance business and being overstocked or even fully stocked is a real PITA! (I have spent a ton of capital on biological and mechanical filtration capacity and I am still probably not what would typically be considered to "fully stocked" except for bottom feeders*.)

You have probably seen in a few of my posts where I have encouraged folks who have some experience but are "really hot to trot" to slow down and now you can help these folks by contributing to their threads with your hard earned experience.

TR

*ie. I believe that if the electricity went off for several days I could lower the water temperature to 74F and my fish would not experience oxygen deprivation.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

I keep thinking my tank is in bad shape compared to all of the ones on this board. 

The fish usually survive in my tank, but that horrible brown algae is always there and never goes away. I will wash the plants and one week later I see brown again on the plastic plants. I have tried less feeding, but I don't really know how much I should put in with the fish I have. I keep thinking theres not enough food to go around.

The gravel gets really messy with fish waste and I keep thinking I need to have it clean all the time or my water quality will go down.

I keep worrying about the health of the fish and when I see the tetras always nip at each other it seems they arent happy. The cardinals are better in this area but even they fight from time to time and are territorial.

It seems if I only have a few fish I could cut down on all this extra worrying. Wouldn't it be better just to have 6 blackskirts and 2 rams. I mean these blackskirts seem to be the hardiest and can survive anything. Much easier to care for right?

I don't want this to become burdensome, I enjoy them a lot and watch them quite often. I want it to be a joy and for them to have great conditions.

I'm not sure what I'll do just yet.....


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

If diatom algae is recurring that probably means your water supply has some extra phosphates or silicates. If you don't have any plants, you could use a phosphate absorbing pad in the filter. I've never used one, and generally stay away from chemical based products, but if your regular water changes to keep nitrates down are also keeping the phosphate levels high enough for brown algae, then I don't see a more practical solution other than changing the water supply itself.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Kn:

One at a time.



jones57742 said:


> *ie. I believe that if the electricity went off for several days I could lower the water temperature to 74F and my fish would not experience oxygen deprivation.


Where I was coming from here and this goes back to real "old school" thinking is that if the power goes down and your fish suffer oxygen deprivation you are overstocked.

As I said this is just an "old school" rule of thumb but is many times currently applicable.




Knight~Ryder said:


> ... but that horrible brown algae is always there and never goes away. I will wash the plants and one week later I see brown again on the plastic plants.


Shev's analysis is most probably the correct one but two items which differ from his post.

If you will plant your tank, IMHO, the problems which are currently having will be mitigated with minimum fertilization (I have read before of some "fake" plants contributing silicates) but phosphates are probably the most prevalent problem.

The fertilizers would be *Seachem Flourish* and *Seachem Potassium* in the liquid fertilizer world and CSM+B and Potassium Sulfate in the dry fertilizer world.

TR


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## matthew_black (Dec 29, 2008)

I agree with jones57742, that planted tanks are more healthy tanks. My planted tanks never have nitrite. Any fertilizer that contains iron and potassium will give the plants the minerals it needs in the water. Plus they look better than fake plants.

Another change that plants need is lighting. I have found just about any light will be fine, but if it is shinning through glass or plastic, that piece will block out 80% of the good light the plants need.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

KR I believe that you are having a hand at some of the worries you wish to move away from. By cleaning your tank as deeply as you are doing the diatomes never have a chance to go away and move on to the next phase of algae, which is the green algae. This can be very beautiful depending on which one grows. I had a really awesome carpet of green algae on my wood in the 10 gallon. To die for. When I moved some things around, moving that piece out of the light it was in though not by much, it depleted there and started to grow on the other side back under that part of the light. 

Being obsessive (and sometimes compulsive) with a tank does take away the fun. It makes me curious what would happen with your tank if you literally just let it go for a month (or 2 would be even better IMO), and then slowly brought you water changes back to a schedule of 10% every week *or two*. This is what got my tank to get back online, now there is very little algae in the 20 gallon where it was starting to grow beard algae. That's all I did, let it go. The water was barely noticeably cloudy. Now: Clear clear clear. 

If you can't handle seeing anything dirty in a tank then you do indeed have a problem. Fish are dirty. They create dirt. Their uneaten food creates dirt. Algae is often times less than pleasing to look at, yet can be an indication of a well kept tank. If you cannot stand any algae, it's going to be an issue that won't go away. 

I do hope that you stick with it and find a way to keep things going in your tank. Step back and relax  Tackle one thing at a time. Things like that.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Its a phase dude... I used to obsess, you just gotta learn that doing less can mean being more sucessful.


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## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

+1, I agree with Obsidian. That dark green algae will change in time if given the chance.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

Well I do get Green algae as well. It's growing around my heater. When I leave my tank for so long and don't change the filter, there is lots of mulm all around and on the filter. There is quite a bit!

It's not that I can't stand to have a "dirty" tank, I thought a super clean tank is what is needed for healthy fish.


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## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

I believe this is your aquarium. Try letting the Algae grow on the sides and back also on all the dark or green items. Maybe you can just clean the colored items and do the vac in your gravel. The key would be to let lots of algae grow until it turns green. Not the gravel though.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Embrace your mulm LOL.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Knight~Ryder said:


> When I leave my tank for so long and don't change the filter, there is lots of mulm all around and on the filter. There is quite a bit!


KR:

Just curious but are you referring to mulm as a material which when touched substantially decomposes into fine particulate matter or just greenish brown nasty looking gunk?

I am asking because I believe that if you disassemble the intake assembly and impeller housing you will find gunk on these parts as well as on the rotor assembly.

These parts can be easily cleaned with very warm running tap water and an old tooth brush. I have to do this every couple of weeks when the biowheels in Eclipse filters cease spinning.


I do not know that 


Knight~Ryder said:


> I thought a *super clean* tank is what is needed for healthy fish.


is necessary but, and I know that Obs was kidding, but I also do not know that


Obsidian said:


> Embrace your mulm LOL.


is appropriate.

Have you considered planting your tank and adding a couple of Bristlenose Pleco's.

The last several years I rarely vacuum the substrate surface because no or very little mulm is evident even though I overfeed.

TR


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Actually getting rid of algae is just for us humans to enjoy the tank better. In almost all cases most types of algae benefit the fish. It provides a natural food source for many types of fish beyond the "tank cleaners" 

Your tetras and Rams really dont mind the algae. It gives them a snack all during the day that they can hunt for naturally. 

The reason most people clean the glass is so they can see into the tank and see their own pets. (Honestly, The fish probably prefer if the glass was covered all the way around. It would give them the security they love.) But what good is having fish if you never get to see them.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

I always thought the brown diatoms go away after awhile. I look into the tank now and I see half of my palm tree covered in brown algae, as well the uppermost parts of my fake plants right by the water. 

Will the bristlenose pleco really help?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Knight~Ryder said:


> I always thought the brown diatoms go away after awhile. I look into the tank now and I see half of my palm tree covered in brown algae, as well the uppermost parts of my fake plants right by the water.
> 
> Will the bristlenose pleco really help?


KN: watch my lips! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Get that artificial junk out of that tank, plant it and get some BN's!!!

Of course I am just telling you what I would do and some of the following is probably repetition.


[1] No telling what that artificial junk has in it (or on it: ie. paint) which is causing you grief.

[2] With a planted tank and plenty filtration the mulm problem should go away (or at least it has with mine).

[3] BN's are wonderful little fishies which have personalities and hence your enjoyment.
You will observe them eating algae on the leaves of the plants and walls of the tank (which algae you cannot even observe) as well as scavenging the bottom for any leftover morsels. (recommend that you purchase juvies and raise them for several reasons.)

If you are worried about the low light and planted tank thing being a pain please do not be. This has been hyped up way too much on the IN.

I had a very nice low light planted tank when only using Flourish* but insanity set in and I started experimenting.

TR

BTW: did you break down your filtration assembly and check for gunk?
Just curious.

*


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## DarrylR (Dec 16, 2007)

It happens to many experienced people, just learn from your mistakes and bounce back.


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## OldMan (Dec 30, 2008)

Many of us get trapped by being too particular about every detail of the tank. My tanks all have some algae in them because I refuse to be upset by it. For my silk plants in the 120 gallon community, it makes them look a bit more real. In other tanks, some algae almost always can be found growing on a plant or an ornament. The algae does no harm to the fish and can be a help at keeping the fish healthy. The one that people stress the most about is green water algae, the single celled algae that floats around in the water. I look at it differently because I know that one of the first things a commercial livebearer breeder will do with a new pond is get the water nice and green before putting the breeders in. It helps keep the fish healthy in that giant outdoor pond. 
If I couldn't relax and just enjoy my fish I would get very stressed trying to look after 16 tanks. What I find is that if I do regular partial water changes and feed the fish regularly, most of the time the fish take care of everything else. If algae starts making it hard to see into the tank or builds up too much in some spot, I remove it by hand and life just goes on. For me, my fish are a relaxing hobby, not a chore or a stressful challenge. Your own approach can make all the difference between enjoying the hobby and constantly fighting it.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

I remove the brown algae on my tank with the magnetic algae remover. I have been letting things be as of recent and everything still seems to be okay.


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## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

Woo Hoo. Tell me more of this Magnetic algae remover.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

I forget the name of the one I have but it cleans the inside of the aquarium without wetting my hands. Powerful magnets on the outside hold the non-abrasive, cleaning pad on the inside, and it's safe for fresh or salt water tanks.

I leave it in there all the time on the top left hand side. When I see algae appear on the walls of the tank I just move the little magnet around, and it takes off all the alage in seconds!


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Mag-Float is the brand name. Most chain stores have a generic version.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCa...r_medium?&query=mag+float&queryType=0&offset=


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