# Just letting you know!



## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

Hello all, I have posted a problem but thought I would give a "non question" post for a change!
My aquarium is looking fine. I bought some new members from ebay a few weeks ago. I don't think I will be doing it again as its not a good way to pick/buy fish. I bought a Lion fish and got 3 domino damsels from a bloke who was changing his stock. The Lion looked healthy when I bought it but sadly died 2 days later. I checked all my levels for signs/reasons for this but all was fine. I am sure it was shock or an underline problem with the fish (un-noticeable).
Today I have been to my LFS and bought a large hermit crab and a Ribbon Eel. I was looking on the fish compatibility chart and this seems like a pretty good addition to my tank.

Now my tank consists of...
Regal Tang
Yellow Tang
Sail-fin Tang
Tomato Clown
Emperor Angel
Picasso Trigger
3 Domino's
Ribbon Eel
Prickly Puffer
and a large hermit!

I know I'm going to get some replies to this post saying "you have a bad blend of livestock" BUT.... THEY ARE ALL GETTING ON FINE!

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Hermit can withstand the attention from the Trigger. There doesn't see to be any issues as yet. The Trigger is quite calm and un-aggressive! The Puffer is dopey and spends all his time looking at me!

The new Eel is a very strange looking chap.... Black with a yellow/white stripe.

We will see how they all get on over the coming weeks!

Just because its an odd match, doesn't me it won't work! I think fish have different characters and sometimes act different to the other members of the family! My tank is a good example of this.

I am sure this will create a discussion on the forum... Like I said at the start... this post doesn't have a question. 

;-)


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

although there is a lack of a question, it is indeed only a matter of time. Also PLEASE read my post "which fish/invert/coral to choose" the ribbon eels do not have a good reputation of being hardy, good luck though!


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

i seem to be the only one that asks this, but others seem to enjoy it too. HOW BOUT SOME PICTURES? id love to see the ribbon eel. and everything else for that matter.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Holy Mother of crap!

Well, good luck; you're gonna need it. I'm glad that things are working out for you so far, but I hope you're planning for the future.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm hoping this tank is hundreds of gallons, and at least a few meters long - otherwise there may be untold carnage when all your tiny baby fish reach their hefty adult sizes (think dinner plate size for each tang, similar for the angel, and about 18" for the most commonly found "prickly puffer"s. Not to mention 10" for the picasso and about 5 very nasty inches for the tomato and the two domino thugs.

Especially as the two Zebrasoma tangs are known for intra-genus aggression - and could possibly even be considered infamous for it... 

"but they are all getting on fine" is kinda like Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" -- for how long ? a week ? a month ? a year ?

Talk to me in a decade. That's a good measure of "getting on fine".
I'm pretty sure every divorced couple in the world "got on fine" at some point... doesn't mean it will last.

I won't even touch on the ribbon eel - you might as well buy a panda bear, you're more likely to get to survive captivity in the home of a non-professional.


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

Ha.... thanks for the vote of confidence!

Positive thinking always works for me!
We shall see?


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

sorry to be overly negative, but what you are trying to accomplish long term here has been tried by hundreds of aquarist for many many years. Very very very few have had success over the years. We aren't trying to discourage you but we are trying to forewarn you. The two biggest ways to get out of the hobby is A) not understanding the nitrogen cycle and B) not understanding compatibility/sensitivity/aggression (behavior). You're right now teetering on the edge of collapse in this tank right now as far as bioload goes, so keep up with those water changes.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Fishfirst said:


> sorry to be overly negative,


You don't need to apologize Fishfirst. You, along with level, salt and red, are trying desperately to help this person. Some people just will not listen. Let's see if "positive thinking", I think that's the quote, works in this case. Unfortunately realFinJamie will be out of the hobby in 3-4 months due to frustration. The bright side is that there will be another used aquarium for sale.


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## rbishop1 (Feb 17, 2006)

I like my freshwater tanks...and am not overly experienced with SW...but I think you really should reconsider the mix in there.

Dare I ask a question since you haven't..what size tank is this?


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2006)

you are really setting yourself up for failure here. a positive attitude is great and all, but not when it leads to denial.

rbishop1: he says it is a 5 ft long tank. :shock:


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

ron v said:


> You don't need to apologize Fishfirst. You, along with level, salt and red, are trying desperately to help this person. Some people just will not listen. Let's see if "positive thinking", I think that's the quote, works in this case. Unfortunately realFinJamie will be out of the hobby in 3-4 months due to frustration. The bright side is that there will be another used aquarium for sale.


You have no idea about me... i don't get frustrated over fish!!!!!! I can assure you that I will be keeping marine fish for many years to come. If what I have fails, then i shall move on and plan my next move.
I like to learn by my own mistakes. I am sure you will aggree with me when I say.... you can ask a bunch of fish keepers one question and get a selection of answers???..... therefore there are no "set rules" as such. There is a possibility things may work out...so why not try if you want? We could argue about this forever...but there is no point! I have what I have and thats the way it is... i am prepaired to see if it works, it is so far! thats fine by me. So a message to RON V.... speak to me in a year and i can bet your bottom dollar, I will still be into Marine Fish!!!!!!!! ;-)


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

RealFinJamie said:


> you can ask a bunch of fish keepers one question and get a selection of answers???.....


This forum seems pretty consistant. Please provide evidence of someone agreeing with you!


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

RealFinJamie said:


> I like to learn by my own mistakes.


Too bad living creatures have to DIE!


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

if i see signs of problems then i will remove the offenders! so... no.....living creatures don't have to die! I take it you think you are the "WISE OLD MAN" around here?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

RealFinJamie said:


> I take it you think you are the "WISE OLD MAN" around here?


Actually, no. I know nothing about saltwater aquariums. I've never had one. Several other people, whose judgement I trust, have attempted to help you, however. 

One little tip though. If you ever hope to become a "wise old man" you will learn to take advice from folks who know more than you.


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

ron v said:


> Actually, no. I know nothing about saltwater aquariums. I've never had one. Several other people, whose judgement I trust, have attempted to help you, however.
> 
> One little tip though. If you ever hope to become a "wise old man" you will learn to take advice from folks who know more than you.


The thing is RON.... you are reading messages in the wrong area... you want to be in the "goldfish department?"
I am sure that people will agree with me on this one.... "if its working now...tomorrow... next.... week...next month or even next year, then its ok! If there is a sign that its not working out and i remove the fish which are causing problems...then that is ok too!!! As long as i keep an eye on the fish an look for signs of stress or bullies then there is NO HARM IN MIXING FISH! 
So telling me that i'm set for falure and that I don't listern is incorrect! Big deal if i need to remove a fish.... big deal if I loose a few £'s because the LFS won't give me what i paid... who cares... its ok for now! the moment it goes wrong, i will act accordingly!!!!!


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## AshleytheGreat (Jul 24, 2005)

RealFinJamie said:


> If there is a sign that its not working out and i remove the fish which are causing problems...then that is ok too!!! As long as i keep an eye on the fish an look for signs of stress or bullies then there is NO HARM IN MIXING FISH!


She not trying to kill fish guys, just a harmless experiment because she will obviously stop things IF it gets out of hands. Things probally will get out of hand but no harm in experimenting if nothing bad happens, right?


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

If you really want to learn - try researching first, then experimenting. 

(would you assume its ok to drive drunk with just positive thinking, or would you research first before you went out and killed somebody ?)

If you've researched, you've seen discussion of the adult sizes of your fishes - which is well documented. 
You've probably also seen discussion of conspecific agression in tangs, especially _Zebrasoma_ tangs.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zebrasom.htm
I'm sure you read about the known problems 'regal' tangs tend to have when housed with either other tangs, angels, puffers, or triggers - never mind all 4.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paracant.htm

You've likely read about adult _Pomacanthus_ angels and aggression problems in tanks of less than 200 gallons (approx 750L -- young fish can go in about 400L for a while). 
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm

What great miracle have you discovered that will allow you to keep a ribbon eel alive where everyone else is failing ? I hope you document it and sell it, you'll be able to speak at all of the major aquarium conferences and easily retire on the money you will make from discovering how to keep that fish alive.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ribbonmorayeels.htm
http://www.theanimalnetwork.com/aquariumfish/printer.aspx?aid=22771&cid=

I'm extremely impressed that you know so much more than not only those of us on this board who have been in the hobby for decades (some of us have actually worked in this industry and even have degrees in biological oceanography and/or aquaculture) - you even know more about this new tank than the folks who write books about keeping fish alive ! Have you already scheduled classes for Mr's Fenner, Calfo, and Micheal, so that they can unlearn what they think they know, and learn from your august presence ? 

so - how's that regal tang with the marine velvet doing ?


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

These are fishes that will not just get "stressed" - they will likely develop HLLE or another disease, or stop feeding altogether (assuming that they don't end up with physical wounds - there's a reason tangs are known as surgeonfish, they have sharp scalpels on their caudal peduncle.

Would it be an ok experiment to mix hamsters with cats if you took the hamsters out after they can been carved up ? 

In such a barren tank (not enough caves or visual barriers) there will be a problem eventually. We're not just trying to help you - we're trying to help all of the people who are reading this thinking well if *RealFinJamie *can do that, I can too.

We're thinking about the fish, not your wallet. I'm sorry if that offends you. 

As I've been known to tell customers who don't want to listen - "you'd be kinder to that fish if you took it outside and drove over it with your car" - at least it would die a quick death, not slowly starve or get picked apart by a tankmate piece by piece.


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

if you look at this chart... tell me what so called wrong moves i have made?
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/compatibility_chart.cfm
Apart from Eel and damsel/clown problems which are a size issue towards bigger eels and smaller clowns and damsels (i have a small mouthed eel and larger clowns/damsels)


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

there are a few CAUTIONS but NO NOT COMPATIBLES! I am taking caution!


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

The REGAL is doing fine... 80% cleared up now. Copper is doing its job... i shall keep the levels right and make sure it doesn't return!


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2006)

realfinjamie:

are you in denial, or just plain stupid? Maybe you just don't care about the lives of the animals you so ignorantly threw into that little tank? 

Here's a little thing someone sent to www.wetwebmedia.com regarding a blue ribbon eel they bought:
_To our surprise the pet store in which we purchased this Eel understands its difficulty to keep and is allowing us to return it. We have tried live foods, but all it was interested in was in our "Disappeared" juvenile Damsel. Quite an expensive meal for a fish that probably wouldn't last
another week in our tank. We didn't do our research and just bought on impulse; something that saltwater fish tend to do as their vibrant colors and exotic looks entrap onlookers._

This is what you did, IMPULSE BUY. This is one of the worst things a fish keeper can do ESPECIALLY in saltwater. Did you research before purchasing any of your fish? NO! Show me one reasonable resource that says keeping a blue ribbon eel FOR LIFE OR LONG TERM is easy or can be done by a beginner in an over crowded, 5ft tank. Then maybe people will get off your back. You really disgust me. I cannot believe that someone would just brush off the advice given to them by many experienced aquarists so that they can 'EXPERIMENT' with their fishkeeping and learn from their mistakes. In the conditions they are in now, you will have fish either die or become extremely unhealthy, and you will be sorry you did not take our advice. I also noticed from past posts that you bought the tank in february? So you have two months of experience and you think you will be able to go against what aquarists who have been in this hobby from the start say? Then you have a real problem. I hope you enjoy your tank while it lasts, because it wont last long.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I like liveaquaria no less than any other online livestock merchant - but I would never recommend that anybody ever trust the advice of somebody who is trying to sell you something. ever.
For anything.
Liveaquaria pays the bills by selling fish. Of course they're not going to point out that sailfin tangs will beat up other tangs in the same tank, or that angels tend to bully regal tangs until they stop feeding. Or that domino damsels turn into blah grey (ugly) 5" monsters that make tiger barbs look cuddly.

I like to trust authors (and others) who are willing to give me advice without depending on my purchase to pay the rent.
(or stores that are willing to say "don't buy this fish" but thats more rare).

Scott Micheal's Pocket Guide to 500 Marine Reef Fishes as an awesome book and a great investment. He talks about minimum tank sizes, adult fish sizes, and fish interactions (ie triggers nipping at puffers ) as well as ranking each fish on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being bulletproof and 1 being "Jacque Cousteau couldn't keep it alive"


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

copper in the main system is bad bad bad - hopefully you have a hospital tank !


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2483
_This is fishforums.com official stance on this subject. I am closing this thread with this final word to prevent any insult and injury on this thread. If this discussion continues else where, that thread will also be closed._


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## RealFinJamie (Feb 19, 2006)

I said this thread is closed.

fishfirst


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Fishfirst has the power to say this thread is closed and it will be shortly. 

-A moderator


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

:shock: ok you guys, they are her fish, its her problem, and she said she can handle it.. 

LET IT GO!


Please?? :|


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