# CAE With Dropsy



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Just as it says, I've got a golden CAE whos come down with Dropsy....I'll explain my situation a little better...

A week ago from today I left for a little trip down to visit my Aunt and Uncle, arriving back on Monday(the 13th) around noon. I'd left my three tanks in the hands of my mom who doesn't quite get the whole fish thing, but seeing as I was gone for less then a week leaving her just to sprinkle a little food in there twice a day wasn't such a big deal. So anyway, everything looked just fine upon arriving home. All fish were alive, happy, and active. I'd preformed a WC on all three tanks the day before I left(Tuesday, the 7th)so I had the rest of the day to rest and do WCs again the next day. 
So come the next day(the 14th)I went about my usual routine of feeding everyone, then heading out to take care of the horse, then coming back inside. Looking into my tank I noticed my CAE was a little fatter then usual....he tends to be a little fat most of the time, especially after a feeding, but this was more then normal though not really by too much. I thought maybe he just got a little too much too eat....or maybe he was a she. There was no abnormal behavior at all, still very active, pooping, and everything. So I let him be.
However checking up on the tank a little while later, as I do frequently, I saw him suctioned to the side of the tank and the scales on one half of his body sticking out. I removed him from the main tank immediately. I offered him some shelled peas and hopefully I can pick up some Epsom Salt today. But here come the questions...

-Other then the slight bloating and and then the pineconing, he showed and still shows no other signs of dropsy. No lethargy, no uninterest in eating. Totally normal. Should I be concerned about the other fish in the tank?

-I'm confused about the cause of this. Nothing in the tank has been changed/taken away/added for a good month now. Levels were immediately tested and all came out normal(NitrItes and Ammonia at 0 with NitrAtes around 10)my water is a little hard, but I've never experienced a pH fluctuation in any of my tanks. A WC was done immediately after removal of the sick fish....but it wasn't any dirtier then usual and, like I said, last one had been preformed exactly a week earlier. All my mom did while I was gone was sprinkle a little food twice per day as I'd instructed. So what happened? Is this just some freak random disease....? 

-He seems to have nibbled on the peas i've offered him and I can see hes still pooping normally....the pineconing hasn't gotten any worse, but has yet to get better. Is there a chance of saving him? I can try and get a picture if it'll help. I'd like to try and save him if I could, but I don't want him to suffer...


----------



## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

seems like u doing the right things WD. if the pineconing hasnt gotten worse he might pull through. just give it time. epsom salts will help a lot. if he is passing poop then the peas wont do much. is the poop clear?


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Thanks for the response 
The pineconing hasn't gotten any worse at all and actually seemed to go down a little after I changed the water in the container I'm keeping him in(afraid I don't have a full QT available). His poop is normal, not clear, stringy, or white. And there was a LOT of it before I changed the water. He doesn't seem to be pooping as much now though, so I suppose I'll keep the couple peas I have for him in there? Should I offer him an algae wafer or shrimp pellet?
If it means anything his breathing is also normal, no rapid gill movements or the like.


----------



## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

leaving the peas sounds like a good idea. no dont give him food. cant say more but all the best. Peas have always worked for me. i hope it works for the SAE.

keep us posted.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Alright, will do  Thanks.


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I have just now got a female betta with dropsy. Most times I have lost the fish that have it but I decided to treat with epsom salts and see if it really does do any good. And YES it does helpShe has gotten no worse and in fact the scales have receded in. I have my own little theory about dropsy. I think it is kidney failure as opposed to infection especially in elderly fish. My betta is over 18 months and they do not seem to live long anyway. She is still eating a bit but that is decreasing.
I decided to keep her rather underfed as in humans with kidney failure we decrease the protein level. 
She is still blowing bubbles around her container.
CAE's also have a tendency to get bloated guts and sometimes the abdomen fills up so they look loke a balloon.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

A quick update:
Dad brought me home some Epsom Salt and I added some right away, it seems the scales have receded further and hes a little more interested in the peas now(I'm guessing because thats the only food available though and hes had nothing else offered to him in 24 hours xD). I think I caught it early enough and hopefully he'll pull through. 



mousey said:


> I have just now got a female betta with dropsy. Most times I have lost the fish that have it but I decided to treat with epsom salts and see if it really does do any good. And YES it does helpShe has gotten no worse and in fact the scales have receded in. I have my own little theory about dropsy. I think it is kidney failure as opposed to infection especially in elderly fish. My betta is over 18 months and they do not seem to live long anyway. She is still eating a bit but that is decreasing.
> I decided to keep her rather underfed as in humans with kidney failure we decrease the protein level.
> She is still blowing bubbles around her container.
> CAE's also have a tendency to get bloated guts and sometimes the abdomen fills up so they look loke a balloon.


Hmm....interesting theory. I've only had one other experience with dropsy in a guppy and by the time I got to her it was so bad she needed to be put down :/. Anyway, good to know your betta is making a recovery, that gives me lots of hope 
Haha, I've noticed this with my CAE though he never really looked quite like a balloon.....this isn't harmful to them though, is it? Oo


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

A new development:
I just got a look at him from the side(I keep a towel wrapped around the container that he’s in in an effort to make it darker and keep heat in)and he has what looks to be small red dots about the raised scales. I noticed this same thing with my guppy when she had dropsy…only it was far worse the a few little spots. I’d read on another thread about a goldfish that had a horrible case of dropsy that he was bleeding quite a bit towards the end…..so I assume he is bleeding then? Is there anything I can do about this? Or is it too late to save him now?


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

don't know about the red dots- I have never observed this but will keep a lookout for it.
Caes are prone to bloat. I am not sure of the cure- I know mine died of it.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

I'll do more research on it, but I'd assume bleeding. It may be happening on your gal as well but perhaps you can't see it if she's a darker color? I remember that the guppy I had was a very light cream color, and my CAE is only about a shade or so darker then she was....

Anyway, the bloating has gone down completely with the addition of the epsom salts. He's still producing a lot of waste and is eating his peas. The scales have receded some, but are still sticking out, however its mostly on his right side and thats where the dots are. No dots on his left side though.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

A little Update:
Things are going wonderfully. For a little over a day now there has been no sign of scales sticking out on either side of him and apart from being a little skinny he seems to be much better. The 'bleeding' on his right side is still present, but its definitely getting better. I'll be significantly reducing the Epsom salt(still adding a little however)and keep him QTed for a few more days, slowly wean him back onto algae wafers or shrimp pellets, keep and eye on him and if things go well I'll move him back home  Thanks for everyones help^^


----------



## Guest (Jul 20, 2009)

glad he is ok man!  cheers!


----------



## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Epsom salts... really!? what dosage are you supposed to use? I haven't had to deal with dropsy yet, thankfully. But good old, buy it at sav-ons Epsom Salts? Is it okay to use if you have plants? Will it kill inverts? Can Coriadoras handle a dosed tank?


----------



## Guest (Jul 21, 2009)

the last time i did that i didnt have corys so i wouldnt know how they would react to that. talk to Obsidian. her pleco had recently come down with dropsy and this worked for her and she has corys in her tank.

i used a tea spoon full for a 5gl qt that i run when i get an issue, but i used epsom as a last resort. the rest of the time the peas trick always worked for me.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Eh, Well I've come back with some bad news....

Tuesday I was really busy, so I had to put of a WC on him for a little while. He seemed to be doing great, so I offered him a half a shelled pea and a tiny bit of algae wafer then it was off to the Orthodontist. Come home, hes dead as a doornail. :/
I dunno if it was because I put of the WC for a few hours or he just wasn't as heathy as I thought. Upon inspecting his body he looked OK I guess, no more signs of dropsy but the 'bleeding' could still be seen(though I'm fairly sure it'd stopped by then). He didn't look particularly healthily and was quite skinny, maybe the dropsy had already done its damage and it had only been a matter of time?
Not sure, but I'm keeping an eye on everyone else in the meantime still....so far everyone seems just fine....still puzzled as to how this all happened...


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2009)

am sorry Dragon.....


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Aww, thank you Zakk 
I am a little sad, one of my fist fish upon truly entering the hobby, but I suppose I did what I could. I'm a bit more concerned on what may have caused it and if my other fish are in danger though...


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2009)

really cant answer that question dude. could be just a regular liver/kidney (not sure) failiure or infection or bacteria.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Its alright, thanks for your help though 
Yeah, I can only hope it was something confined to the CAE I was just so confused as to why it popped up all of a sudden. Suppose I may never figure out the truth :chair: :lol:


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I have not found that it is particularly virulent in a tank.
Some fish get it and some don't. I have read that it can spread to other fish but I think it depends on the reason why the fish got it in the first place.
As long as you are doing regular water changes and caring for the fish properly don't beat yourself up. I don't think that a few extra minutes before doing the water change would make that much difference.
The only fish I have had get dropsy are older fish. their bodies wear out much as ours do.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Yup, weekly WCs preformed on all tanks(crazy as it sounds, I actually enjoy it)and I did his little container once-twice a day, mostly to just remove uneaten peas and whatnot.
I don't think he was that old....got him when he was roughly two inches? He was probably 3.5-4in at the time he contracted dropsy. Don't they get much larger?


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I have seen some real woppers returned to the LFS- at least 5-6 inches long and as big as the circle that I can make putting my thumb and first finger together.
on the other hand i have seen some that are still as small as bought when several years old. These tanks never seem to have enough algae in them for the poor things to eat.


----------



## WaterDragon (May 9, 2009)

Whoa, big fish :shock:
Aww, poor things. Yeah, he definitely kept the tank mostly clean, loved his algae wafers, was growing. Definitely growing :lol:


----------

