# Is gravel or bare bottom a better choice?



## Jeane09

for 5 gallon tank for our betta?
It is my 9-year-old's, I help her care for it but thought a bare bottom would make it easier to see & siphon off the fish waste. 

On the other hand, I thought gravel would help keep the tank stable, as it can provide home for the bacteria?

which is better? thanks


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## BettaGuy

Ah so you're getting a 5g now? good choice. The gravel will help with space for the bacteria and will look more pleasing to the eye (imo). But with only one betta fish in a 5g the bacteria on the filter media should be enough. It would definitely make it easier to clean having a bare bottom tank.


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## Jeane09

Well, my kid still does want to get a replacement snail. So there will be more than just the betta's waste in there... I'm still uncertain what to do. Haven't got the 5 gal yet, but am looking at some options.


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## Kirrie

I would go with gravel. It looks nicer and really won't be that much harder to siphon out the debris. It will also be good for planting. Betta like plants with broad leaves that they can rest on. Their long heavy fins can tire them out and they will need a place near the surface to rest. Anubias is a good plant for that purpose


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## emc7

If you don't use a UG filter, keep any layer of substrate thin. Without water flowing through/over it, the gravel doesn't host much useful bacteria, certainly not enough to compensate for the crap it catches. bare is easier to clean. But a 5 with only one fish shouldn't be much of a chore to keep clean. A betta will sometimes treat bare like a mirror, but you can paint the bottom black or let it get covered with algae. Suit yourself. Sand would also work. Plants are good, but there are plenty of plants that need no substrate, java fern (tie to anything), java moss, hornwort etc.


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## BettaGuy

anubias needs no substrate either, just tie it to some objects with elastic band. I only have plants attached to objects (driftwood, hides). Sand is great for cleaning too, no poop gets stuck as sand is essentially flat like bare bottom.


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## Jeane09

I was planning to get an anubias plant, and java fern, to tie onto the decor. We've already got a small clump of java moss in there. The bacteria will live on the decor as well, right?


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## BettaGuy

Bacteria grows on everything, the more surface area the more bacteria grows. So, glass is very smooth, and therefore it doesn't have as much of surface area as lets say gravel. So more surface area=more bacteria. With that beeing said, yes bacteria grows on deco too.


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## Jeane09

Ok, thanks. So perhaps the decor, plants, heater and filter will together host enough bacteria to handle the output of one betta and a snail... I think I will try it bare bottom and see how that goes.


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## BettaGuy

good luck, i think you should be fine. Especially having plants in there.


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## Jeane09

Thanks. I'm going to try and get it set up this weekend...


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## marcshrimp

i think you should just "set" an aquarium up properly. i read through most of your post and you seem to leave out a basic element in each aquarium you have been doing. 

listen to lohachata, emc7, betta guy, angelfish, weedkiller, and whoever else has posted or is trying to help. most of us have lots of experience and tanks and dont mind sharing knowledge with you. 

for what its worth, here is my basic setup on a freshwater tank. or what i would do in your situation.

1. sand substrate
2. add your java moss, Anubias, and some wisteria (let it float)
3. buy a sponge filter
4. add cuddlebone
5. add driftwood
6. add fish and snail
7. throw all test kits away
8. enjoy your aquarium

please put substrate, gravel or sand, in the aquarium. i use sand because its easier. just SET it up correctly from the start and you will not have problems. i dont own a test kit and have 7 aquariums ranging from a 1 gallon to a 125 gallon and never lose fish. plants will provide enough start up bacteria for the aquarium. dont add water conditioners, just dechlorinate and pour it in.


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## BettaGuy

woah macshrimp, plants will not provide enough bacteria to get the tank going right away!! The tanks still needs to go through a proper cycling process. While the plants do help with removing amonia, nitrites, and nitrates from the water the bacteria on them is rather minimal. 

I really don't see what is missing in this 5g. It has a heater, filter, decor (so hiding spots) and broad leafed plants for the betta to rest on (anubias). Substrate is not necessary, while I do prefer the look of a tank with substrate, it is a personal choice. This tank is for her little daughter, so the no substrate choice makes sense as debris is easier to see. This way overfeeding wont necessarily end in death as the left over food can easily be siphoned out of the tank.


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## marcshrimp

ok. ill just stay quite. please disregard my post. I have no idea what im talking about. all my fish are dead or stressed to the point of death. I do not have the ability to add fish the first day of tank setup. I would in no way use substrate because there is no advantage. I have to buy a new betta every week because they die in my setup. I also club baby seals in my spare time. I am sorry for trying to miss lead you

oh and im sure you have existing filter media. place it in the tank in a filter bag.


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## BettaGuy

I didn't say you have no idea what you are talking about, with having 7 aquariums you definitely do. We just have different opinions


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## Jeane09

We did loose a few bettas when my kid got her first fish (what started this hobby) because its true, I did not know what I was doing. The three bettas we currently have, I've kept for nearly a year now with no loss. Yeah, I'm making mistakes but that's why I come here to ask for help. 

I realize I didn't set up the 3-gallon properly and that's why I took the fish out and am starting over again with a 5. The 3 is still running in the meantime, so I can pull the filter media and decor out and put them in the new 5 gallon to help establish that one. I won't put the fish in until I'm sure it is done cycling. My 20-gallon has had fish in it for a week now and as far as I can tell, it is doing great (except maybe I picked the wrong plants?) I am so glad I read posts on this forum and learned how to cycle or I would have never got that one running properly. I did add cuttlebone for the snail, and fertilizer tabs for the plants, to my 20-gallon yesterday. If there is still something basic missing from that setup, I'd sure like to know. I don't mean to disregard any advice received here, you all have so much more experience than I do.

My plan for the 5-gallon is: pick up the tank. Set it up with filter and heater, add the water (treated), the thermometer and test the light. Turn the equipment on and let it run for a day to make sure functions properly and no leaks. Add filter media and decor from the other tank. Buy the anubias and java fern plants, tie them to the decor. Add the ammonia source and piece of cuttlebone. Wait a few days and test water parameters. Wait for ammonia, nitrites to get to zero. Do a water change to remove excess nitrates when the cycle is done. Wait another day or two, make sure bacteria are converting ammonia and nitrite into nitrate w/in 24 hr. Buy the snail, add the snail and betta to the tank. I am expecting the whole process to take several weeks. I told my daughter to expect that it might be a long time (my 20-gallon wasn't ready for six weeks), but meanwhile her betta is safe in his original 1-gallon 

What step or element am I missing?

My daughter obviously doesn't take care of the fish alone, I often do things when she is not here or forgets. But I want her to have some responsibility for feeding and cleaning, so I thought it would help if she can _see_ how dirty the tank gets. She can then tell when she is overfeeding, see the mess and have motivation to clean. But that's why I asked here, if it was really more crucial to have the gravel bed to host bacteria... I wanted to get feedback and know if the new setup will be the best thing for our situation, and the well-being of our fish. (I think he will love the new space.)


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## BettaGuy

so far really it all sounds good.


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## marcshrimp

not being a baby about it. I was not referring to you at all. good luck with everything. i was just throwing my 2 cent in


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## lohachata

actually marcshrimp had it pretty much right..that's what i do when i set up a tank..


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## emc7

The bacteria live where the water flows because thats where they get their food. All the surface area in the world won't grow more bacteria that can get a meal of ammonia or nitrite from the water. So focus on the filter. Make sure it works, make sure you don't replace all the media at once.


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## Elliott225

The only thing I don't like about a bare bottom tank is any debris shows so easy. My eye just goes right to that spot.


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## BettaGuy

So loha, plants provide enough start up bacteria? Sounds new to me. I mean bacteria grows on everything but enough to cycle a tank?


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## BettaGuy

I didn't say he was wrong, I just don't agree with the plants part.


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## lohachata

i didn't say plants provided bacteria....but they often do have some...bacteria will build up on any firm surface..if the plants came from a tank that was already established there would be bacteria growing on it.and you really don't need a massive amount of bacteria to start the cycle..but you do have to feed it..
but basically i do the same as marc does..
i set up the tank with whatever i figure is needed and then i add the fish..
the only conditioner i use is Cloram-X which is primarily a dechlorinating agent..
i don't have time to wait 2 months for a tank to cycle...i just add the fish..


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## Elliott225

You have to have something for bacteria to feed on, be it established filter pads or plants or fish poop. A tank will not cycle without food for the bacteria. About 15 years ago I setup a tank with nothing but a heavy plant load and waited. The ammonia never went up. I though well that was quick. I added a few fish and the ammonia spiked in a couple of days.


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## marcshrimp

bacteria will grow on anything in your tank. filter media is the best place to grow it because that is where all of your fish poop and food is collected. you are gonna get an ammonia spike anytime you add a fish to the tank. more poop, more bacteria grows to eat it and the ammonia goes away. if you take everything brand new and add it to a tank

EX plastic plants, new filter, new decorations, fresh tap water that has been treated.

you have absolutely no bacteria in the tank. you have to wait for it to enter the water, feed on something, grow and multiply. that is a cycle

if you take a new tank and do this

EX: real plants, new filter, driftwood pre soaked at fish store, treated tap water, add fish

now you have bacteria established on plants and driftwood, the water makes no difference because "beneficial" bacteria does not "grow" in the water column, it does however move through out the tank in it. you add food for the fish, it poops, feeds bacteria that is on the plants, driftwood, and by now in the filter. you have no cycle but a spike which will quickly disapper because the bacteria is already there, more just has to grow and spread to handle the load of the fish, which it will not do at a proper level until the fish is in the tank

now... new aquarium... add plants, substrate, driftwood, fish, snail, AND used filter media

there is no cycle. that tank is no different than a tank that has been established for 20 years. it would be no different than taking a tank and doing a 75% water change. its not good to do a 75% water change but you get my point. and before you add completely new water to a tank, why not do a water change in another tank and add that to the new tank and top off with new water. then its like a 50% water change. 

and on and on.


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## marcshrimp

I am gonna backtrack a little just in case someone is googling and sees this.

if you buy a new aquarium and have no other aquariums or used filter media or real plants or driftwood. you DO have to cycle the aquarium.

also like emc7 said, you can cause major problems changing all filter media and by vacuuming substrate "too" good. you have to leave some poop in the tank to feed the bacteria or it will die and have to spread all over again causing a mini cycle

this is more or less just to help Jeana09. there is no reason to cycle a 5 gallon tank that you are gonna use an established filter on and live plants. add the stuff and the fish and snail. you will basically be wasting the 2 weeks or more that you stated you are gonna cycle the aquarium for. whats gonna happen is... you are gonna do all this "cycling" and then add the fish and snail, your gonna start testing the water and everything is gonna be out of whack again. 

you are using cycling techniques that are designed for 1st time tank buyers that are gonna use plastic plants and new filters and filter media. and promoted by fish stores that want to sell you test kits and water conditioners.

and to answer your original question... use a substrate. bacteria grows in the substrate.


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## emc7

There is a difference between the 1st tank and your second or third. As long as there is no disease, it is fairly easy to start a new system when you can seed it from one that is already established with bacteria that do well in your water. I love sponge filters for this and any filter media is best, but there will some "seed" on anything somewhat porous in the tank.


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## Jeane09

I didn't realize a second tank would be so different from the first one, when all my stuff was new/unpopulated. Marcshrimp and loha and you all were right. I put all the things in from the other tank- piece of filter media, decor, some plants- and it didn't really cycle at all. Today the parameters look fine to me- no ammonia, no nitrites, 80 nitrates. The nitrates are there because the bacteria is already doing its job, right? I'm going to do a water change to bring them down, and tomorrow when my kid gets home, we'll add the fish (after one last check on the water parameters, just to be sure).

I decided to go with the gravel. The benefits seem to outweigh having easier cleaning, from what everyone tells me. I can stay on top of my kid about feeding, cleaning and I bought a little mini gravel vac for her to use. Maybe she'll have fun seeing how much hidden poo she can find in the substrate!

Here's how it looks:








There's a piece of java fern tied to a little decor piece in the back left corner, and some java moss tied onto the top of that asian temple thing. (The fish likes to swim through the top of that and rest under the roof, but I think now he might like the big leaves of the new anubias better!).

Thanks everyone for helping me figure this out.


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