# New to Cichlids/Shellies, need advice...



## Phonemonkey (Oct 19, 2006)

So I'm setting up a tank for some Lamprologus Ocellatus, and I have a few questions...

What substrate would you reccomend?

Appropriate foods?

Additives? Premade buffers, or make-your-own?

Sources for shells?



Thanks in advance for any tips. :mrgreen:


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Crushed coral, african cichlid substrate (brown but with an effect on water chemisty like crushed coral) or fine sand.

Good cichlid flake (such as OSI), & occasional frozen or live brine shrimp and daphnia.

Prime or other dechor, pH buffer and hardness salts, nothing else. 

Seachem tanginiikan buffer & Kent cichlid chemistry. (Yes, its wierd to mix brands but I like the Seachem buffer dosage info for pH and the Kent label tells you what TDS to aim for for each lake and how much to add) You could make your own, but unless you have a pond, just mail-order the premade powder, its not that expensive and unless you own a laboratory balance, not worth your time to DIY.

Craft stores, dollar stores, road side shell shops in Florida (all the shells are from overseas), pet stores (often sold for hermit crabs). You can't have too many shells. You could even replace the substrate with shells.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I bet you could find shells on e-bay, too.


----------



## craftyflalady (Jan 25, 2006)

_If you want great color in your goldies, try black sand! They look beautiful in them. Goldies are harem breeders. So if you have more than one male, the biggest and baddest might kill off the other males to have all the females to himself. So watch for that. 

As far as buffering, I dont add any. The shells themselfs will buffer the water some, and if your water is really soft...you can just drop in a piece of coral or using the crushed coral substriaght might be needed. 

I have found you need at the very least...one shell per fish. More if you have them. These are the shells I find they like the best. 

http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/proddetail.php?prod=3goldturbo&cat=10

They will bury the ones not in use and dig them up if needed. They are truely a wonderous fish to watch and own. 

Good Luck!
Kathy ;-)_


----------



## Phonemonkey (Oct 19, 2006)

Thanks for all the tips, I was going to go with eco-complete cichlid sand, but I'm setting up an eclipse system 12, and I'm told sand will completely destroy the power filter.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

How would sand destroy the filter? Just don't use sand with a UGF.


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

sand should be fine, go with either sand or , preferrably IMO , crushed coral.

I think large shells solf for hermit crabs should be fine

The crushed coral would buffer the water, dont use pH chems, they dont work. And yes, you should have at least one shell per fish, and at least 3 fish (1M 2f) so get around 4 shells if possible.

as for food, they are carnivores, so supplement their diet with some frozen food, as well as a good flake like NLS.


----------



## Phonemonkey (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm told it will get sucked up by the intake and ruin the impeller.

Crushed coral is fairly large, and has sharp edges, for shellies this small, I'm somewhat concerned it would end up cutting their mouths/fins and irritating gills.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> dont use pH chems, they dont work.


Don't use pH up and down. A tanginikan buffer does work, but not without proper hardness. If your water is pH 8 or above out of the tap and the hardness is >300 TDS, then you don't need to add anything even for tanginikans. If your pH is 7 out of the tap and falls overnight and hardness is < 50 TDS like I have here in Atlanta, then buffering is appropriate.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> and has sharp edges


 I've never seen fish hurt by gravel, even when they burrow in it, only large rocks and coral skeletons when they try to squeeze into tight spaces. Crusted coral will keep your hardness up, if your water is already hard, or if you use cichlid salts for hardness, then you don't need it and can use any inert substrate.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> ruin the impeller


 True, sand or even the small bits of crushed coral in a larger mix can get in between the impeller and the housing and scratch both or even stop the impeller from spinning. However this is easily prevented with a sponge prefiter over the filter intake, it will also protect tiny fry.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Does this happen even if the sand settles? I have sand and have never seen any in my filter.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2006)

In larger tanks you can have the filter intake a good 6 inches from the sand bed. I'm not sure how far your filter will be. If its close, then go with a prefilter. You can use an Aquaclear Mini 20 sponge and just cut a hole in the middle. That will definitely be good if you have fry.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Depends on the filter and the proximity of the intake to the substrate. 
If the filter passes the water through a filter medium before the impeller instead of after, you won't get sand in the impeller. Of if the impeller is at the top of the filter instead of the bottom, the sand will settle. Really fine sand may just pass through too. 
But I have had to replace marineland impellers because of fines from the crushed coral in my african cichlid tanks scraping off the plastic coating on the impellers and making the filters noisy. It may be because my fish move the substate around and my intakes are near the bottom of the tanks.


----------



## Phonemonkey (Oct 19, 2006)

Yeah I've noticed the intake on the eclipse is very near the bottom of the tank. I was thinking of shortening the intake tube to raise the intake a bit, but I was concerned that this might have a negative effect on the filtration.

Heres a detailed diagram of how the eclipse 12 filter/tank fits together...

http://www.marineland.com/products/diagram_ecom/n_ecl_sys12.asp


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Go ahead and shorten the itntake. Cut the tube in half and the head should still fit on. I doubt it will have any negative effects.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Yeah, should be fine. Most kits come wiht several piece of tube so you can choose your own length.


----------



## Phonemonkey (Oct 19, 2006)

Zoe said:


> Yeah, should be fine. Most kits come wiht several piece of tube so you can choose your own length.


Unfortunately, this kit only comes with the one. So far, the suggestions I've had are either shortening the intake tube, or covering the end of it with a sponge filter and removing the whole "basket" thing that comes with it entirely... I'm gonna head to a new LFS I've never been to in about an hr, so I'll have to choose my options depending on what I can find there...:fish:


----------



## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

Cichlids like to spit sand and they seem to love to aim for intakes. $30 later for a new penguin 330 on my 75g i have learned to not argue about it just fix it lol. Get the intakes up as best as ya can. Anything under 6 inches is giving them a target to aim for lol. MBuna are the worst but shellies you can relax a touch due to size but wouldnt trust them just incase.

Anyway the whole reason i replied was to give a link to cheap shells perfect for shellies. I have bought and use these shell in my multi tank and i couldnt ask for anything better.
http://www.chefswarehouse.com/Catalog/DisplayDetail.aspx?prd_id=GF101
i currently have 1 order in the tank (36 shells) and i will be ordering 2 more very soon (72 more). its a 30g breeder tank just for multis. Anyway one order would prolly be plenty for your tank maybe even over kill. Personally that sounds like the perfect excuse for another tank lol.

Sin


----------



## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

or you can just go to your lfs and ask for dead snail shellies. they are happy to clean them out of their tank.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

http://www.cichlidbreeding.com is the best place for shells IMO.

Any sand will work but the finer the better.

Never had a problem with shellies and intake height...............

Never had a fish get damaged from substrate other than cory barbels.


----------

