# New Guppy tank, issues...



## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

I've been wanting a guppy tank since Dec '06 and have done lots of research. I finally got my guppy tank; A 9 gallon BiUbe [for 75% off, whee]!!

Well, my tank was set up fishless for the first week due to lack of time to go to the fish store. On the 10th I bought two male guppies, both passed away first thing the next morning; only 8 hours later. I was devistated, but ready to give up. I did some research and came across this forum. 

Try #2: I bought some Stability and did according to the instructions. One capful for 10 gallons on day 1, and days 2-7 1/2 a capful. I'm on day 4 today, and I bought 2 more male guppies three days ago. They were both doing really well the past two days, but today my little red one doesn't seem to be looking so good. He was bright red when I bought him, but now he's a dull red and his tail is seethru. His tail also seems to be shredding and you can see his tail's.... skeleton? He hasn't eaten yet today even when food passes right in front of him. I'm really worried about the little guy... but I don't know what it is that's wrong with him and I can't seem to find any info.

I've been testing my water daily. The readings haven't changed. They are; Ammonia: 0, Nitrate: 0, Nitrite: 0, pH: 7.0, Alkalinity: 40, Hardness: 120 Temp is about 76 - 77 at all times. Oh, and I'm using RO water from my in-home RO filter [not RO-DI].

I made sure not to stress my fishies when I got them home. I floated the bag for 10 minutes and then drip acclimated in a bucket for 25 minutes. I kept the light off the first day and made sure it was quiet in the room. They were both swimming around and seemed very healthy, and they both have been eating. The red one didn't seem to like flakes but he loved the frozen mixed food. The yellow one is doing just fine.

I'm new to this whole fish game and so far I'm a fish murderer! Help!


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

Ok... so I decided to make a quick run to the fish store before they closed. I didn't want the guppy to die so I returned him. The lady tested my water and said I have very acidic water. Her test said 6.0, but mine reads 7.0? Maybe I'm not reading it right...

She said the acidic water was basically eating my fish =/... so I got some pH up to bring my water up to 7.0. Hopefully my yellow fishie won't get hurt from the acidic water too . I can't believe I fried my fishies... I feel so bad now.

I just did another water test and it said my ammonia is 0.5, when it was just 0 yesterday... I guess my ammonia is about to spike [water is cycling?]

I hope I'm doing something right... does this all sound normal? This is my first tank... and I'm so confused!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, this sounds normal. As soon as you start feeding, you start making ammonia. Using RO makes very soft water with will often have a falling pH. For guppies, I would suggest either adding "cichlid salts" or "aquarium salt" or 'sea salt" as they prefer ions in their water. If you have a bypass for the RO filter, you might use you unfiltered tap water as guppies are happier in hard, alkaline water than soft, acid water. Change water if the ammonia gets high.


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

I thought I wasn't suppose to do a water change yet until the tank has cycled? I've only had fish in my tank since the 10th, and it hasn't cycled yet... I couldn't find any bottles of pure ammonia so I couldn't do fishless cycling. I have been using Stability tho, which is suppose to help cycle or so I've been told.

And I was told that RO water is better than tap water [I live in Phoenix, AZ and the tap water is nasty, so much so I won't even let my pets drink it]... would it be better to use tap water tho? I also got a live plant in my tank so I don't think I can use salt...?

This was suppse to be easy and fun lol.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Fishkeeping is fun, but the first several weeks aren't easy. Water changes may slow your cycling, but if the ammonia in the water is hurting your fish, you need to dilute it back to a safe level. RO water is good for rams and discus, but is a bit "too pure" for guppies, who like some impurities in their water. Try a 50/50 blend of RO with tap. If you don't want to use any tap, 1 tsp/gallon of any salt (not iodized) would help. Which plant? Some do ok with salt. Once your tank is done "cycling", which might only take a week or two with stability, you should be able to change some water once a week and keep the fish happy for years. Don't give up, once you get through "new tank syndrome" and the fish recover from the stress of moving, you will start to enjoy this.


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks emc7!

The plant is a rangeri sword. I asked the guy at Petsmart which plants do best in a low light situation, and he recommended that one. I went to a fish specialty store [that doesn't sell guppies, unfortunately] and they said I'd need a CO2 system in order to keep plants alive, and special lighting and all that other fun stuff. I'm having enough trouble keeping fish alive so I think I'll wait on my aquascape, and hope my little plant doesn't die too.

I have non iodized table salt... but my granny also has a saltwater tank and she buys 5 gallon buckets of premixed RO/DI saltwater. Would adding a little bit of that be better?

I just realized that I've been using the saltwater side of my ammonia test card... and my ammonia is higher than I thought [between 0.50 and 1.0] so I topped off my tank and added 18 drops of Seachem Prime which says it neutralizes ammonia to make it safe for fish... but I think I'll still do a small water change tomorrow. Even if it slows down the cycling process I'd rather do slow but steady and have all my fish live than to do quick and speedy and lose any more fish. One guppy left, and he's beautiful... I don't want to lose him too.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Marine salt is better than table salt, but it I'm not sure what amount to recommend. Prime will help keep your fish alive. You can use the "emergency" dose (I think its 4X normal) to help them survive the cycle. I think swords can take a little salt, but you need to ask a plant guru. You can usually keep "low light" plants with no special stuff (CO2 cyclinders, ferts.), they will grow more slowly than if you pamper them, but thats fine for 1 tank.


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

Alright, thanks. I'm not going to add anything else into the tank for the next few days... so far I've added Stability, Prime and pH 7.0 to my tank all in one afternoon. I'm going to do a small water change tomorrow to bring down the ammonia level and then wait and see what happens... I'll keep the "emergency" dose in mind tho, thanks!

And since I don't know how much salt to add and I don't know if my plant can handle it I'll wait on the salt. I know it's good for my fish, but his water has changed so much already... I don't want to shock my tank and have to start all over again.


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## Betta1 (Jan 5, 2007)

For future reference pure ammonia isn't the only way to fishless cycle, you can use raw shrimp which rots and produces ammonia or you can simply feed an empty tank as if there were fish in it, again the food rots and produces ammonia.

I've been told that R/O or bottled water is in fact worse for most fish short of the ones that emc mentioned. I'm not really certain what your tap water is like though I'd imagine it would be ok for your fish, it probably just tastes bad to you. I've never heard about R/O being lower ph but if thats true you'd more then likely be better off with tap as it'll have a higher ph and won't require any buffer which tends to create an unstable tank through fluxuating ph levels.

The only other thought I have is that since your cycling with only one fish, you're going to have a decent mini cycle with the next fish you add. The bacteria build up in your tank will only become enough to compensate the waste produced by that single fish, when you add another the ammonia doubles. So I'd keep that stability (same thing as cycle I'd imagine) and use it when you add more fish.

Also is the tank you got one of those round tanks with the airstone in the middle as filtration (a sponge filter)?


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

Yeah, the BiUbe is the tall round tank. It was on sale for $50 and there was only one left. I really wanted an Oceanic BioCube because it has so many good revies but this came up first. I'll probably upgrade to the 24 gallon BioCube in the semi-not-so-near-future. lol

The fish store guy told me that the RO water filters out diatoms that the tap water has. I remember when the family saltwater tank was first set up we had a huge diatom problem and I'd really not have to fight that in this tank... I'm not exactly sure how I would fight that in this tank.

And last thing; are you suggesting I add another fish? Or next time I add another fish, only get one? I think I'm a little confused.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Next time you add any fish, add stability again and test for ammonia and nitrite like it was a new tank. "minicycle" is what happens when your tank is cycled for the load it has and you add more load. Its faster than starting from scratch, but it does take some time for the biology to catch up.


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

Ah, ok, I get it now. Thanks! ^_^


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## Betta1 (Jan 5, 2007)

Saltwater has to be RO, I'm not sure what diatoms are but if it's rare to your case perhaps RO is the way to go. I'm no water quality expert, I just know the general guidelines and it's to go with tap.


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm not exactly sure what diatoms are myself, but it looks like a brownish-red algae. It's not a particularly bad algae, it just grows rapidly even without light and it's ugly. We finally managed to get most of it under control in the saltwater tank, but it took a while. None of our saltwater critters would eat the diatoms, but I suppose I could research and see if something freshwater eats it. Maybe otocinclus or ghost shrimp eat diatoms. I was planning on getting some in the future anyways.

I'll do a little bit of research on AZ tap water :hauls out test kits and science goggles:: lol) and I'll see if it's really all that bad.


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## MooCowing (Oct 12, 2007)

Well you guys are right, not that I ever doubted you. Everything I've read so far says to use tap water in freshwater aquariums. I guess the guy I was talking to in the fish store didn't know what he was talking about. 

I tested my tap water and all seems good so I'm just gonna use tap from now on. Oh, and I read if I get a diatom problem to just get an otocinclus or two. Half a dozen otocinclus will clear diatoms in a 55 gallon tank in just a few days, and keep it under control after that. I had planned on getting otocinclus when I start getting algae anyways so that works out.


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## mesapod (Aug 18, 2007)

ya my 24g tank was covered in algae like yu couldn't see in it and 2 otocinclus cleaned the whole tank in 3 days!!!!! there crazy fish if you have algae problem get them.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, now, wait a minute. Maybe the guy at your local shop knows something you don't about the effects your local water has on fish. You did say it was nasty, right? I'm just saying.


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## Betta1 (Jan 5, 2007)

oh, it's a type of algae, I have actually encountered this. In my 55g african I was affraid I'd have to get new rock because we thought it was rusting, after it started to grow on a dead piece of coral my friend told me it was diatom algae. I thought you were talking about something else lol. In my case it was no big deal and actually somehow cured it's self (algae in all of my tanks somehow deals with it's self, even in my SW tank where some hair algae appeared it all went away except on one rock where it has stayed since)

But yeah if a bit of algae is your only problem and apparently you've found a solution, go with the tap water. That is unless TOS is onto something, what kind of store was it? And was it the owner or an employee of the week? Even seasoned enthusiasts can get their facts turned around.

Oh and sometimes it's healthy to doubt what your told esp on the internet.


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