# Sticky  Can you mix cichlids?



## Cichlid Man

Basically all cichlids can be acclimatized to live in the same water conditions, but they won't thrive and many will be more prone to disease. That's why I always suggest not mixing cichlids. If you want to mix cichlids there are a few groups that can successfully live together, however, not only water quality has to be taken into account, there are many other factors you have to think about including compatability, diet requirements, tank space, and security needs, i.e. caves/holes to hide in etc when trying out different combitations of cichlid groups.
Here are a few examples of sucessful setups that have worked with cichlids from differing habitats. Please note that these will only work if ample space is given for each individual fish with numerous hiding places to stake out territories:

Malawi mbuna-tanganikan lamps
Malawi haps-tankanikan lamps
central american-neutral/hard water river african cichlids.
South american-soft water african cichlids like kribs

There are exeptions however, as central american and rift lake africans can be kept together provided the american cichlids are a lot larger than the africans as even though central american cichlids are territorial, if you notice, african cichlids particulary mbuna tend to be more aggressive when fighting and are a lot more endured to win than most central american cichlids.
So if the tank is big enough with enough of hiding places, and the central americans can be trusted to hold there own against the malawis/tanganikans, then it can be done.
REMEMBER: When keeping cichlids, no matter what type, there has to be a certain amount of knowledge in the owner to realise when things aren't quite right, and they must be able to recognise some of the problems which may occur in a cichlid community such as bullying and malnourishment of the less brave cichlids.
Even though I say keeping Central Americans and malawis in the same setup insn't reccomended, I actually have a 100L tank with both these cichlids in. The pair of smaller convicts have staken out a terriotory in a rock cave, and two other cichlids, an aggressive central american cichlid called a pygmy jade-eyed cichlid and a south american cichlid called a port acara can handle the busy life of the more aggressive malawis. Might I add that the American cichlids are at least twice the size of the Malawis, and in the hands of an unexperienced cichlid handler may suscumb to a problem of some kind such as bullying of either the americans, africans, or even problems between the same group of fish which is more common.
What ever you decide to keep, the most important thing of all when setting up a tank is to research every species you would like to have, and plan ahead before buying.
Good luck.


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## ron v

Cichlid Man said:


> the most important thing of all when setting up a tank is to research every species you would like to have, and plan ahead before buying.
> Good luck.


Very good post CM. I try to keep habitats seperate, but have on occasion mixed S.A. apistos with West African's successfully. Water parameters are similar, but purist will claim that aggressive/ dominance gestures and signals are not understood from one group to the other. I have never had a problem with this. Have you experienced it? Another good point is that size of the aquarium is important. A mix of fish that cause problems in a 20 gal. aquarium may be fine in a 55.


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## L.c.

so can you tell me which cichlids will do good with living with a green terror....who so far isnt aggressive.....
I have a 55 gallon and im getting a few more caves and hidey spots and plants


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## ron v

Green terrors.. There are a couple of different species that go by this common name. Both are very aggressive and get a foot long. A 55 gal. is maybe large enough for one adult, but is really pushing it.


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## sambi7878

Green Terror cichlids are usually quite aggressive and often end up in a tank by themselves. I wouldn't think that adding another fish would suit a 55 gal tank. 55 gal is big for one but it will be small for 2. Some articles say that green terors should only be kept with other large robust fish that are able to defend themselves, and by keeping them in a large tank which has caves and shelters provided, they will be able to establish their territories and stay out of each others way. A tank with a green terror should have plenty of swimming room available, but should also provide caves and other retreats for tank mates.


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## Cichlid Man

ron v said:


> Very good post CM.


Thank you Ron.


> Purists will claim that aggressive/ dominance gestures and signals are not understood from one group to the other.


Yes , that is very true, and thank you for bringing that to my attention. 
If you've ever noticed Malawis and American cichlids act very different in character. 

American cichlids pair for life, and both parents look after their young and raise them for a few weeks before the young make up their own minds and leave home. In the wild, American cichlids have a very small territory in relation to their size, and a pair will select a cave or rock to spawn on, and protect that selected territory for may weeks, even months in the wild.
Once a suitable mate is found, most American cichlids will be very loyal to their partners, and will defend them and the fry from all comers. They rarely stray far from their selected territory, and in a large enough tank, several pairs can be kept together in harmony with the occasional squabble.

With Lake Malawi cichlids however, it's a completely different story. Male and female do not show the same loyalty towards each other and their fry in the way American cichlids do. Out in the lake, it's the survival of the fittest, and a large male will stake out his territory which can be as large as 10 metres squared unlike their american cousins which hold territories much much smaller. The male will constantley podtrol his borders mostly browsing on algae growing on the rocks. Any fish will be swiftly chased away, and any passing female will be displayed to. If she's not ready to breed, she will be chased away, if she is, then she'll be invited to mate in a pit dug my the male, or a cave. After the egges have been fertilized, the female takes the eggs in her mouth, and swims off to a quieter location where she can protect her eggs. After the fry are about two weeks old, the female spits out the fry, and she shows little to no parental care. A few days later the fry are left to fend for themselves in rock crevices, unlike the fry of American cichlids, which are kept in tight schools by the parents dispite there sometimes being close to 1000 fry, which in Malawi cichlids is more like 20 fry.

Anyway, back to the point malawis being very active in nature, can sometimes be too boisterous for the slower moving American cichlids. Another thing which should be taken into acount in a small community cichlid tank containing Malawis is that there is usually a definate hierarchy within the group, often leaving certain individuals victums of bulling if not enough retreats are provided. To aviod this problem, aquarists overstock their tanks with Malawis to reduce certain individuals being bullied. This is very unlike most American cichlids, as if given sufficient partners, the community will usually keep themselves to themselves, and will only fight over territorial boundaries rather than dominance of the whole tank which we can see in Malawis. 
I usually prefer keeping Central American cichlids, as though they are aggressive, in a large tank, several adult breeding pairs can be kept without too much trouble.





> I have never had a problem with this. Have you experienced it?


Yes I have, and this brings me back to my point.IME In my experience in a small tank, say 30g, if Malawis and Americans are added into such small surroundings like this, often hell can break loose. The overwelming pattens, quick movements, and boisterous "fight" atitude displayed by the newly added malawis can sometimes send the slower moving cichlid into a high corner of the tank to hide, where the Malawi cichlids will see this as a sign of weekness and try to bully it. If the Central/South American cichlid stands it's ground however, flaring it's gills and and raising it's fins the Malawi may either one, retaliate with the same body language or more likely two, it will try to escape the aquarium and stay as far away as the American cichlid as possible, once the the American cichlid ventures nearer however as it regards the whole tank as its territory, the Malawi cichlid will probably swim rings around the Merican cichlid in what it may seem, an attempt to escape the tank, but if you watch, the Malawi cichlid will form a tighter and tigher circle around the American cichlid. This is because it has no means of escape, and because it can't swim away, it has to fight for the chance of winning over the tank. This is very unexpected in the eyes of the American cichlid, who usually gives up the fight in the end as the Malawi cichlid is a endured fish that has also an advantage in that it's teeth usually do more damage as in the wild they use them to scrape algae from the rocks, as you can imagine, these are also very good at scraping scales off of other fish in fights. So the combined speed and position of the teeth in the jaw of the malawi cichlid, are usually to much for the American cichlid to handle. Whoever wins will usually be forced to stay out of the victors way by hiding in the top hand corners of the tank, if this happens the fish should usually be sepperated.


So now you know why I don't usually keep Malawis and American cichlids together, because the main reason is that after a while, the two groups of fish will be arch enemies.
In fact, I've had a situation that in one tank, the malawi and CA cichlids were so intolerant of each other, that all the Central American cichlids deffended one end of the tank, working together, dispite that in a normal situation without Malawis, they wouldn't dream of working together.


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## Osiris

> With Lake Malawi cichlids however, it's a completely different story. Male and female do not show the same loyalty towards each other and their fry in the way American cichlids do.


HEHE, Man's the boss in choosing how many mates, i think i need to move to Malawi :lol:


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## Cichlid Man

Yep, don't we all wish.:lol:

Anyway yeah, I forgot to mention that a single male may mate with up to 10 females in a single day? Now, don't get carried away booking your tickets too soon.:lol:


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## ron v

Lake malawi females are drab looking. Nothing to get excited about. Just stay in the good ole USA!!!!!


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## Osiris

LMAO *doh*

Cichlidman, i'd believe it, I had 8 females holding withing a 24hr period before on my Aulo. Eureka's. Day i stripped them, i couldnt believe all the fry! 35-40 each female.


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## L.c.

so i should go with cichlids from the Americas
ok....which one out of these
German Blue ram(I am tempted to get another tank just for these guys...but im broke haha)
Fire mouth
green texas cichlid
Jack Dempsey
Salvini cichlid
I am going to get a buttload of river rocks wed.
I want to get sand instead of gravel but im affriad it will mess up my filter...which is an Emperor280

Just tell me what you think of those fish...but so far i hear that the JD is my best bet..


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## ron v

Tank size?
Water parameters?
Other inhabitants?


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## Lisachromis

Cichlid Man said:


> American cichlids pair for life, and both parents look after their young and raise them for a few weeks before the young make up their own minds and leave home. In the wild, American cichlids have a very small territory in relation to their size, and a pair will select a cave or rock to spawn on, and protect that selected territory for may weeks, even months in the wild.
> Once a suitable mate is found, most American cichlids will be very loyal to their partners, and will defend them and the fry from all comers. They rarely stray far from their selected territory, and in a large enough tank, several pairs can be kept together in harmony with the occasional squabble.


Actually, I believe that New World cichlids that raise their young together are only in a pair bond for that particular breeding. Many also practice harem spawning (1 male with several females). Males do protect the territory further away from the fry while the female does the main protection of the fry.


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## L.c.

my tank is a 55 gal
the only fish i have in there is the green terror
I like to keep the tank from 72 to 80 degrees....mor towards the 80
The ph is at 7.0
im getting ready to put lots of rocks in there and more plants


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## Cichlid Man

Lisachromis said:


> Actually, I believe that New World cichlids that raise their young together are only in a pair bond for that particular breeding.


I don't agree with that, most of my Central American cichlids have raised broods one after the other without splitting.


Lisachromis said:


> Many also practice harem spawning (1 male with several females).


Which species are you talking about here? Or are you just talking generally? i'll be very interested to know.


Lisachromis said:


> Males do protect the territory further away from the fry while the female does the main protection of the fry.


This is true.


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## ron v

In reality, pair bond for neotropical cichlids are only for the current breeding session. Since they have already been through the pre-spawn pairing rituals tho, and since the cycle of being ready to spawn are synchronized, in effect, they seem to bond for life. It's really for convinence.

Harem spawning is common in Apistogrammas.


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## Cichlid Man

ron v said:


> In reality, pair bond for neotropical cichlids are only for the current breeding session. Since they have already been through the pre-spawn pairing rituals tho, and since the cycle of being ready to spawn are synchronized, in effect, they seem to bond for life. It's really for convinence.


But still, even though it may be for convenience, neotropicals still pair, and both parents tend they fry. Unlike African Malawi mbuna cichlid males which do not show any parental care.


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## ron v

Cichlid Man said:


> But still, even though it may be for convenience, neotropicals still pair, and both parents tend they fry. Unlike African Malawi mbuna cichlid males which do not show any parental care.


Very true.


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## sambi7878

L.C...I wouldn't mix the green terror with jack dempsey or green texas in a 55 gal tank. The jack dempsey and green texas cichlids should be kept alone or in a single species tank with others of its kind (however, avoid keeping 2 males together in 1 tank). They are an aggressive and territorial fish which can be quite hard to mix with other species, or even their own kind. Many articles say, they can be mixed with cichlids such as the Green Terror but with caution, and only in large tanks. Jack Dempsey and Green texas both need a minimum tank size of 50 gal. so your tank will be small when they reach their max size.

My advice, save money and have a new tank...lol! if you really like cichlids, you can have some peaceful and small ones like the rams. A pair of them can be kept in a 20 gal tank.


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## sambi7878

By the way L.C... why not have another green terror in your tank? You can have a pair in a 55 gal tank. Provided, the tank has caves and shelters. So that they will be able to establish their territories and stay out of each others way. Just make sure that if your fish is male, he will have a female companion and not another male (No problem with female having another female) and of the same size as your old one...


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## Cichlid Man

sambi7878 said:


> By the way L.C... why not have another green terror in your tank? You can have a pair in a 55 gal tank. Provided, the tank has caves and shelters. So that they will be able to establish their territories and stay out of each others way. Just make sure that if your fish is male, he will have a female companion and not another male (No problem with female having another female) and of the same size as your old one...


A breeding pair is best, even two females will fight if kept alone. I ALWAYS keep a neotropical cichlids in pairs, as keeping just one doesn't bring out the true colours in the individual fish.


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## L.c.

how could i tell which fish is male or female.....
I think mine is male but im not really sure
hes got red outlined on his fins i read that meant he was a male


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## Lisachromis

Cichlid Man said:


> I don't agree with that, most of my Central American cichlids have raised broods one after the other without splitting.


Often in tank situations, the fish have no other choice but each other. OR, they are both the best suited to each other of the fish in the tank. So, they'll keep on picking each other. But, given a choice in the wild, the cichlids will pick a male or female that is best for their situation at that moment. It's not always the same 'spouse' as the last time they spawned. It is nice however, to see the protective behaviour of both parents.


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## sambi7878

L.c. said:


> how could i tell which fish is male or female.....
> I think mine is male but im not really sure
> hes got red outlined on his fins i read that meant he was a male


As what I know, (others may help me out on this...lol!) even at a young age Green Terror can be sexed based on their colouring. The males will basically always have more prominent colours than the females. Adult male green terrors develop a cranial hump on the top of their head and may have more pointed anal and dorsal fins. Males also grow larger the females. I've also read that when they reach 3-4 inches, try to see the anal opening. Males have v-shaped and females have u-shaped. They said, this is more accuratein telling sexes but i haven't really determined the sex of a cichlid usingthis method...lol!


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## ORCA.

L.c.
55g =one GT unless you want mayhem in the tank.


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## ryan aubrey

how big do my convicts need to be for me to breed them.


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## ryan aubrey

*hi*

how big do my convicts need to be for me to breed them.


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## davedudeman

I have a 46 gal bow front with tons of rock caves. The entire bottom is a hop away to the next cave. I was just wondering how many mbunas would you recommend I keep in this tank?


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## emc7

6-8 and pile more rocks all the way up to top.


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## davedudeman

Thanks a ton emc. I need to go buy some more rock.


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## cichlid_75

*cichlid_75*



L.c. said:


> so can you tell me which cichlids will do good with living with a green terror....who so far isnt aggressive.....
> I have a 55 gallon and im getting a few more caves and hidey spots and plants



I've got a 75 gallon tank with central african cichlids and some red finned sharks that adapted. I was wondering if its possible to raise two diffrent species together peacefully?


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## benneibru

i think it all has to do with the personality of the fish, a buddy of my has two tanks African and American cichlids and the gt in the American tank gets picked on by everyone and there all the same size even the salvini gets picked on its a 75 gal tank and the ruler seems to be the synspillim (i know its spelled wrong)


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## KenSmith87

Hello All,

i have a quick question. i also have a 55gal. set up. as of now i have 2 black convicts. (breeding Pair) and 2 african jewels (breeding pair). they dont bother each other at all they both have fry every so often an sometimes eat each others. they stay on seperate sides of the tank. only time they come near each other is for food. i was wondering if i could add a tank-mate. such as a firemouth.

i have it now in thier an it seems to be fine. it swims next to the side with the male con. but jus want some opinions. bcuz this is the first time i owned this type of fish. i didnt research it like i should've but i loved it wen i saw it. an nothing was changing my mind 



sizes. convicts. - 3'. jewels. 2.5'.

firemouth 1.5'


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## lovejonesx

You can certainly mix some cichlids to varying degrees of success & it is encumbent upon the hobbyist to educate themselves as to which ones would be the right ones to mix, with things like water parameters, space considerations & temperment in mind.

The thing is though, it's NICE when mixing them works out for the better, BUT IT'S A BAD SCENE WHEN YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT WHAT YOU MIXED WITH WHOM!

Which is why I have learned to proceed with the utmost care & consideration of having tankmates that can not only survive, but thrive in the same conditions.
ljx


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## amann.nagi

Well, in terms of keeping multiple kinds of cichlids..

Personally, I have yellow mbuna chiclids in my tank, whicgh are particularly sensitive to conditions.

I added a breeding pair of convicts to the tank, and since they are so tolerant of conditions, they seem to be doing great


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## Simon

Hi i am new but i have had large fish for a while now and i hav put a oscar with two convicts and they get along like family

But i must warn you should intorduce them when the are young otherwise there will be fighting.:fish:


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## petlovingfreak

many types of cichlids can be mixed, depending on:size, aggression, and sometimes the individual fish.


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## mrk888

*what else can i add?*

Just bought a new tank, 56 gal corner tank. right now i have two electric yellows, two blue neon's, two blood parrots. And three little guys dont know what type they are yet and an eel. They all get along great an occasional flare up but all in all pretty good. I was looking to add a center piece type fish. Currently my largest fish is roughly 3.5 inches, i would like to add a sharp looking 6 inch or so fish. looking for your input plz let me know if possible dont want to over crowd tank and dont want to turn my fish into food.


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## blonpunk88

so i have a 75 gal bow front tank. I want a all cichlid tank, Red/gold severums, JD, oscars, anything vivid in color. I'd also like to get some pictus catfish also.

So how many could I get? I have a female JD right now. Could I get like 2 severs, 1-2 JD, 1-2 Oscars, and a couple pictus?

orrrrr...Could I just continue with getting malawi's, and getting a mated pair possibly of the severums. I knowwww, everyone says you shouldn't mix cichlids from different area's/lakes...but I had the water quality ideal for the malawi's and my previous severums were very happy and attempting to mate.

I can't decideee!!! lol. I'd really love to have a lot of smaller fish rather than 2-3 larger fish...but my mom really is wanting me to get these red/gold severums and I already have a young JD.


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## emc7

I'd skip the oscars and the pictus cat. They would outgrow your 75. I would try the JD and the severum and if you have aggression issues, be ready with a divider, a second tank, or a friendly LFS. Cichld mixes are alway hit or miss and can suddenly develop problems after everything's been fine for years. I wouldn't keep severums with Malawi fish. Even if they did mate, it would be unlikely for you to get live fry in hard water. Keep all S. american ciclids and maybe a pleco and call it a tank.

At 19, if it seems likely your mom will end up with your tank when you go away to school or move out, it makes sense to let her help pick the fish.

If you didn't have the Dempsey, you could try a pair a severum, a school of Congo or emperor tetra, and a shoal or cories. You could try that anyway, understanding that the JD may need a new home as it get bigger.

For future reference, start a new thread for faster replies.


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## bmlbytes

Maybe this should be a new thread?


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## chriryan85

yes i have a milomo a livinstoni and an elrctric blue all happs with a socolofi purple socolofi albino snow white and an orange red zebra. thats 3 happs 3 mbunas theyget along fine.


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