# Emergency! my cory's barbles are gone!



## Guest (Jun 21, 2006)

My corys have been breathing heavily for a day or two and now one of them are laying on their side and is breathing heavily and his barbles are gone and my other cory's barbles are missing as well. What going on with them?


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

What kind of substrate do you have?

I asked this in the other thread but, are the ottos and cories in the same tank?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2006)

Yes they are, as it states in my sig. LOL

The substrate I use is gravel.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

If it's corse gravel it could be the reason.
If I was you I'd go and read up on cories before going out and buying them.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2006)

Well I've had them for over a year, and this gravel has been fine for them. Here is a pic of what the gravel looks like (I use the same in my 55g)







And I knew about how to care for corys before I got them.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Well then you might have a problem with the usual suspects (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate...). I say this only because you mentioned having problems with your ottos in the tank as well. But based on the description it didnt seem like it was a legit problem. Ive never heard of ammo-nitrite-nitrate causing such defects but you never know those toxins work HORRORS.
But i think that the gravel is the real culprit. Since they are sifting the gravel alll day (literally) their barbels cant take hard substrate. I have cories and it never happened to me but ive heard cases where cories barbs fell off due to inappropriate substrate.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2006)

What's wrong with the gravel? I thought that the only inapproiate substrate was gravel that is sharp. But mine is rounded.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Even rounded gravel can cause damage do barbels due to thier "excited" behavior when sifting. If you notice how they sift, they do it very rapidly causing them to hit their barbels against hard gravel instead of soft sand. It might be alright for them in the beggining, but after time....a year perhaps...they wont be able to tolerate it.

Btw durb i trust you that you did your reasearch. I see you around here and you seem to care about your fish as well as care about how to care for them. Dont take those vetereans sarcastic remarks seriously, they know alot more than us so they get testy around us (although were not newbs) non veterans....


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2006)

Well I know I can't put sand in because if I do it will cause a sand storm and thats bad for the fish, and I'm not going to put them in my 55g.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

you could put some in a plastic bag then submerge the bag under the water and pour out the sand gently.........its somethign u need to do


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Also if the ph and water hardness are too high that will kill them after a while. I had the same problem and I had a bare bottom tank. Barrbels rotted off and heavy breathing. Some prefer a bit cooler water than we have been getting lately with the heat.


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## Pac-Man (Mar 18, 2005)

Also, your gravel bed looks a little thick. It might be wise to lower the depth a little bit-gravel traps all kinds of stuff quick.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

Thats in my 55g and thats just the deepest part and thats a zoomed in pic because that pic was meant to show the pleco and when I zoomed it in it made it look like there is more gravel. My p.h is 7.4 or 7.6 is that to high? Since I can't remove the fish to replace the substrate with sand because of the sand storm. What is a way to change the substrate to sand without having to remove the fish for to long?

Also what can I do for now to help the corys, I'm treating the tank with maracyn because on another forum they seem to think its a bacterial infection thats eroding their barbles?


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Durbkat said:


> Thats in my 55g and thats just the deepest part and thats a zoomed in pic because that pic was meant to show the pleco and when I zoomed it in it made it look like there is more gravel. My p.h is 7.4 or 7.6 is that to high? Since I can't remove the fish to replace the substrate with sand because of the sand storm. What is a way to change the substrate to sand without having to remove the fish for to long?
> 
> Also what can I do for now to help the corys, I'm treating the tank with maracyn because on another forum they seem to think its a bacterial infection thats eroding their barbles?


I think the PH is a little high for them. They can probably tolerate PH that high, but their ideal PH is probably a little lower towards the 7 or neutral range. That shoudn't be a big deal though.

Keep in mind that cories are scavengers. That's how they eat. Any food will easily get stuck between the rocks to where they can't get to them. I would remove the fish from the tank and put them into a temporary bucket, or big icebox or something. Then i'd switch out the substrate. 

Also... be careful with the meds. Cory's are very sensitive to salt and medication. If you absolutely must use the meds, i recommend a half dosage.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Is sand a better substrate for cories??


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

msdolittle said:


> Is sand a better substrate for cories??


YES
Much better. Cories dig through the substrate looking for food. Their little picking things on their nose would get rubbed down pretty quick if it was rock.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Yeah they also like to suck in some sand blow it out their gills, they love doing that lol....but yeah sand or a soft substrate is not only better but its a requirement for cories and any other catfish.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

It's not for plec's because my plec has always had gravel in his tank and I've had him for 3 years.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Hm............thats good to know. All the more reason to move them to my other tank. There isn't much in it so I could switch to sand easily.

What kind of sand? I assume there is special sand?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

It's not that removing the gravel would be the problem, it would be adding the sand because it takes a few days for it to settle.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

msdolittle said:


> Hm............thats good to know. All the more reason to move them to my other tank. There isn't much in it so I could switch to sand easily.
> 
> What kind of sand? I assume there is special sand?


Play sand that you get from walmart is allright. You should stay away from beach sand because it might contain shells or other junk that will cause pH fluctuations.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Durbkat said:


> It's not that removing the gravel would be the problem, it would be adding the sand because it takes a few days for it to settle.


Sand doesnt take that long to settle, if you put in in and it clouds up itll clear in less than an hour.That is if you dont have an airstone running when you put it in. You should also put your filter on the lowest setting so that it sucks up the least amount of sand and the sand will settle quicker.

One concern that you should have when adding sand to your aquarium is that it will probably #1 clog your filter media in which youll have to buy a new media (whichever one is cloged, it will usually be the media that the water touches first) and #2 the established bacteria thats living in your gravel bed will be disrupted when taking out the gravel so to prevent this from happenig replace half of the gravel with sand and wait about a week and then do the other half.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Cool!

What if I move everyone to a different tank while the sand settles, then plug in the filter so that it doesn't clog up? 

(sorry to be a thread hijacker, this has helped me too)


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

harif87 said:


> Play sand that you get from walmart is allright. You should stay away from beach sand because it might contain shells or other junk that will cause pH fluctuations.


No you can NOT use play sand as its bad. You would have to use fish sand from the pet store.


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

Now, Durb, I have Walmart play sand in 3 of my tanks. I don't have any problem with it other than I have to stir it, usually when doing water changes. Also, it is very fine, so you have to rinse the crap out of it before putting in your tank. I also have mason's sand (used for mixing cement) that I got from the local hardware store in the 3 big tanks. It is much coarser and works very well for corys and loaches.

Back to the cory problem.....have you or do you use salt in this tank? Usually missing barbels are do to water issues. Salt will eat away the barbels, too. Just a thought.....


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Durbkat said:


> No you can NOT use play sand as its bad. You would have to use fish sand from the pet store.


Im really sorry but i know for FACT that play sand is useable in tanks. I dont know where you heard that one cannot use play sand but i can assure that source is not reliable.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Just rinse it really well? Thats all that has to be done? Excellent!! I think that may be tomorrow's project........


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

Yep, do the first rinse in hot water and the rest in cold. Do a small amount at a time...swish it gently around in a container (I used a large bowl), pour off excess water and debris. Do this until the water is clear and the sand doesn't take long to resettle. You will see once you get started. Just don't be in a hurry, you will appreciated the extra time later.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Great! Sounds easy enough! And for routine maintenance, just swirl it around in the tank when I'm cleaning?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

You can also use Pool filter sand. I'm not sure if it is as dirty as the play sand, but it is good for plants. It is a little bigger grain.

I have bigger gravel in my 55g (about 5mm) and some of my cories have short barbels, but they have never died from it. Sometimes it can cause an infection and make them sick (or kill them). The heavy breathing and laying on the side makes me think its something else. I'm thinking water quality also. Sometimes that can make their barbels shorter.

You don't have to have sand for cories. It is a little better for them, but IMO sand is more trouble. You have to make sure it doesn't compact because the anaerobic pockets will kill them (and probably your other fish too).

I have gravel in all 3 of my tanks. The 29g has smaller gravel (~2-3mm) and my pandas and albinos barbels are fine. They may be a little short, but otherwise ok.

You have to make sure you keep the bottom very clean for cories. That's where they dig around all day and you don't want leftover food, rotting plants, and such lying around to make them sick.

How much water do you change? And how often? 

What are your water parameters?

If you find out its for sure not your water, then you can change the gravel out to sand, if you wish.
You need to take the fish out because removing the gravel will cause the water to be very nasty and cloudy. Get some rubber storage tubs to hold the fish in. I'd save some of the gravel to put in some pantyhose/nylons to help seed the new substrate. I'd also save some of the mulm if you can. I'd wait until the sand settles to add the fish back. I'm not sure how long that will take. Also, I'd run the filter on the holding tub to preserve the bacteria.

Good luck! I want to change the gravel in my current 55g to Eco-Complete, but that's a very long task. I don't look forward to it.


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

Yes, I just use my hand and move it enough to keep it from packing and forming anerobic pockets. It will cloud up the water a bit, but will settle fairly quickly usually within a few minutes.

I keep Malaysian Trumpet Snails in my sand tanks. They are great about keeping the sand stirred. It is also fun to see what kind of trails they leave in the sand at lights on.

When you trade out the substrate, do a third to half the tank at a time and turn off the filter. I just moved all my decorations to one end and scooped out the gravel. I used a never-used bowl and released the sand close to the bottom (I didn't pour it through the water column). Good Luck and let us know how it does.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

So you can use playsand? As my lps said that its bad, maybe they were just saying that so I'd buy aquarium sand. I'm cosidering switching all my tanks to sand and getting a couple of malasian trupet snails to keep it stirred, or would the corys do that in the 10g and the pleco in the 55g?


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Durbkat you NEED to do a bit more research.LMFAO


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

That is what I'm doing now by asking questions. I was told at my lps that you can't use playsand. But apparently thats not true.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

LPS employees aren't always bright. They tell you what they think and anything to keep you buying from their store. That's why they said you can't use playsand.

The only reason I can think of as to why they would say that, is because playsand has alot of debris in it. All you have to do is wash it over a strainer though....wash it really well. There are other types of sand out there also, if you are afraid of the playsand. Go check out your local hardware store and see what types of sand they have. Just make sure it doesn't have any chemicals or additives in it.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Durbkat said:


> It's not that removing the gravel would be the problem, it would be adding the sand because it takes a few days for it to settle.


Nah, my sand took about an hour to settle in my new tank when it was filled with water. The rest floating in the water is stuff you didn't rinse out. It's safe to turn on the filter then.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

How many inches of sand should be in the tank if I get live plants? Do any of you guys use play sand?


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

It is your preference. FYI, though, plants will have to be anc****d, especially if you are using a courser sand like Mason's or Builder's. If you have 'digging' fish...like loaches...well, you get the idea.

Usually a couple of inches is good. Yes, I have play sand in my ADF tank and two 10 gallon planted tanks.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Hm......if my cories barbles are doing fine.......I wonder if I'm asking for more trouble than I need then by switching to sand in the 10?


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

msdolittle said:


> Hm......if my cories barbles are doing fine.......I wonder if I'm asking for more trouble than I need then by switching to sand in the 10?


Well its all about whether or not you want to invest effort into switching the sand. The sand would make the fish happier and healthier which in turn would make you happier since you wouldnt see a problem in the future which would mean you would spend more time enjoying the beauty of an aquarium rather than worrying . Its all your choice. Make sure not to make a choice youll regret:wink:


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm not sure how big the grains in play sand are. I know that pool filter sand is a little bigger than regular sand and its better for plants.

A 2 inch bed of sand is good enough. I wouldn't go any more than that. You won't be able to have any heavy rooters, like swords though, in only 2 inches.
Stick with mostly low light plants such as anubias and java fern that you can tie on to rocks or driftwood. Some stem plants will do ok, but usually small gravel, Eco-complete, or another kind of plant specific substrate is best.


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

Walmart play sand is very fine....does it actually have grains? LOL Once in your tank it has the consistency of mud. 

I, too, think you would be better off with a courser sand. I never did opt for pool filter sand. I have a backyard aboveground pool and my filter uses this sand. It is not only more expensive, but sharper than regular builders sand. I also like the darker color of builder's sand. Really light colored sand seems to wash out the fish's colors.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

I use play sand in my hermit crab tank called pavestone play sand and I got it at home depot, could I use that?


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Its no problem to switch out the substrate. I don't think I'll have a problem maintaining it either........but the talk of anaerobic pockets sortof freaks me out. Probably I'm attentive enough to handle it though.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

As long as you sift the sand with your hands frequently, or get some MTS, you'll be fine and shouldn't develop any anaerobic pockets.

Sprite, the pool sand is sharp? Hmm. I was gonna use that in a new Asian 38g tank....but I want loaches in there and don't want them hurt. I guess I should reconsider that idea.

Its kind of hard to find a substrate that is good for plants and bottom feeders.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

Well the cory that was worse (was laying on its side) died this morning. So I have one left that still acts normal except that he lost his barbles and is breathing only alittle faster than normal. Will the remaining cory become depressed or anything since its not in a group?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

I would add a few more if this one makes it. I'd wait until the tank is disease free (or symptom free).

Did you ever get your water checked? Its strange that the deaths occured but we can't really pinpoint the cause yet. I really don't think the gravel killed the cories. Maybe they got an infection from their barbels being short, but the gravel itself didn't kill them. I'm a bit stumped.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

Not yet, but I'm going to try to this weekend. Could I get a different kind of cory instead, would that work the same as getting ones that are the same as him?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

Cories associate by the color and look of other cories, so getting some of a different type wouldn't be the same. He'd still be alone. I'd get the same type. You probably have room for 2 types, but I wouldn't add that many for a few weeks atleast. 

I would wait a week, see how the lone cory does and watch your other fish. I'd also get your water tested. Then, if everything looks good after a week, I'd get 3-5 more cories of the same type. Later on you can get another shoal of another type.


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## jeremy242 (Jan 31, 2006)

I was wondering the same thing about adding different species and will they school. I was talking particularly about mixing pandas and adolfos or other andas of similar black and while colorations. I know the only difference between the pandas and the adolfos is the streek going down the back of the adolfos. Anyone tried this. I just thought that it would be cool to have two different species scholing together. Any thoughts?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

I know the different types of cories will hang out, but they really won't school together. They may lay around in the same spot, but really prefer others that are like them.

I have 2 kinds of spotted cories in my 55g. I have 5 corydoras sodalis and 4 corydoras trilineatus (also known as 3-line cories and false juliis). They are both spotted, but the trilineatus have a black spot on their top fin (dorsal?) and the 3 lines down their sides. The sodalis cories are all spotted and bigger. They all lay around and sometimes they lay together. The different types usually hang out with other cories of their own type though. 

If you are going to have 2 different types, I'd have atleast 4 of each type. I would never have just 1 of each type. They'd hang out, but really wouldn't be happy.

Link to a picture of a Sodalis cory.
Trilineatus cory picture They are similar, but not identical.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2006)

Well it is due to the water, I had it tested and here are the results
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:.50
P.H: 6.6 (used to be 7.6)
Today is the last day for the maracyn so tommorow I'm going to do a vacum cleaning to bring the P.h up and lower the nitrite.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Be careful when bringing up the pH. Fish are very sensitive to pH changes, you need to being it up gradually. And i also suggets you add a buffer to your water to prevent pH change.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2006)

Isn't that something like Ph up or down? That can cause the tank to lose its stablity. I'm only doing a 25% vacum cleaning.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

No, a buffer is actually something to keep the pH stable. For for example, tap water usually has quite a high buffer capacity due to all the minerals dissolved which adds up to total hardness. 
So pH up will only work if the water has a very high buffer capacity.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> No, a buffer is actually something to keep the pH stable. For for example, tap water usually has quite a high buffer capacity due to all the minerals dissolved which adds up to total hardness.
> So pH up will only work if the water has a very high buffer capacity.


Dont you mean pH up will NOT work if the water has a very high buffer capacity. Because if i does and you add a pH changing solution the buffer will buffer against it, buffers resist change.....


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2006)

Just do the water change and see what the pH is. A pH drop like that probably killed the cories. 0.5 nitrites isn't a huge amount, I don't think it did it.

After you finish dosing the meds, do a 40% water change instead of 25%. Also add some carbon to your filter if you have some on hand.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2006)

All I have is ammo lock.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2006)

Well I just did a vacuum cleaning (I took 2g out) and the cory has become more active as have the other fish.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2006)

Is Flourite a soft enough substrate for cories?


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2006)

I have some flourite mixed in with my gravel in the 55g. Its about 1/3 flourite. I'm not sure about a 100% flourite substrate though. Some pieces look a little sharp. I've never had problems with my cories, but mine isn't all flourite. I'd ask on the bottom feeder forum, just to be sure.


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