# A Day w/o Latino's



## Osiris

So no work on monday, everyone can sleep in! 

News Cast


When's the next holiday for USA? i really could use a day off.​


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## Guest

i think the next holiday for no work/school is memorial day.


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## Osiris

Dang not til end of next month that bites.


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## fish_doc

It makes me mad to hear them scream "we are not criminals" What dont they understand?
They broke the law entering the country without following proper procedures.
They use social security numbers that are not theirs to get jobs. That is identity theft.
Those that dont have ss numbers dont pay taxes.

All are criminal acts - Thus they are criminals.
Im not saying they dont take many jobs that others wont. or they are not hard workers. They are some of the harder workers I have seen. But you break a law you are a criminal.


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## ALFA WOLF

dont say whatcha wanna say till u understand the situation that we gots as mexicans in mexico it aint the vacation some of yall think it is.


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## fish_doc

A few years back at work they did backround checks on everyone. They found 4 people with stolden SS numbers. All hispanic. 
They were willing to work with them to get them LEGAL but 2 of them took off and have not been seen since. The other two decided to go back home after they were offered help. 
So it was their choice to stay illegal.


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## RockabillyChick

i agree with bill o'reilly. we need to close the border, get the national guard down there. then we need to find as many illegals that are already here as possible and send them to the back of the line to apply for LEGAL citizenship. then we need to establish a responsible guest worker program where companies use all available means to find americans to do the job, and if they just can't fill the positions, then they put in an application to the government saying they need so many people to do this job, then the government goes to another country and finds qualified people to come in and do the job, but all of them are documented and have background checks and everything run, so we know who they are.

that is the biggest problem. we NEED to know who is coming into our country, we need to have them documented so we know they are not drug runners or muderers or rapists or what have you.

and alfa, nobody thinks its a vacation down in mexico. it is a corrupt country controlled by drugs and money. whoever has that, has the power. the president encourages the poorest and the most delinquent to cross the border. they are exporting THEIR poverty and crime to US, and we will not last very long as the United States of America, the country that billions of people have risked everything to come to, if we let this go on.


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## shev

fish_doc said:


> It makes me mad to hear them scream "we are not criminals" What dont they understand?


 The point they were trying to make in the march about not being illegal was that they may be here illegally to the US's point of view, but their ancestors were originally there first.


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## ALFA WOLF

we come here because mexico sux's we dont care about being illegals becuase it honestly isnt much worse then being sent back to mexico shutting the border off will make us come back. The whole idea bringing up the issue of sending illegals back was a big frigin mistake. Because if they send them all back then their will be really big riots and protests and bush dont want that so eventually he will back down and then it will get crazy. More imagrents will come back into the U.S. becuase now they know that if they send em back us will riot again and then back down. Bush wasnt the best choice for president and this issue plus many more can back it up. Its times like this that make u wonder what it woudl be like if kerry was president. and it would be great if yall woudl like to prove me wrong because i do this kinda stuff everyday almost all day so ill be very happy if someone tryes to prove me wrong and convince me that we shoudl send them back.

by the way WE ARE IMMAGRENTS NOT ILLEGALS.


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## Osiris

Ok, you guys are all going off topic here,............


We need more HOLIDAYS! PAID DAYS OFF!

that's the important issue here.


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## shev

Mala said:


> Ok, you guys are all going off topic here,............
> 
> 
> We need more HOLIDAYS! PAID DAYS OFF!
> 
> that's the important issue here.



Its only for latinos


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## TheOldSalt

August needs a holiday.
Thanksgiving needs a theme song, too. No thanksgiving songs, you ever notice?


Hey, if you could decree a new holiday, what would it be?


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## Osiris

Thanksgiving song i always thought Adam Sandler owned that one :lol:


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## shev

Easter doesnt have a song either. or holloween


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## Osiris

Easter i can't think of one, but halloween always has "monster bash" !


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## ALFA WOLF

omg that song annoys me


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## Osiris

Here's some music for ya 

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidsmp&1146794235


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## msdolittle

I'll second the nomination for a holiday in August. Some kind of national summer bbq bash. It needs to be mandatory that beer be available too. I could celebrate that! 

And I think that since everyone gets a holiday for the 4th of July........we should all get to celebrate cinco de mayo too. If we're supposed to all be Americans.....why not? Cinco de Mayo is a good partying day.


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## msdolittle

Mala said:


> Easter i can't think of one, but halloween always has "monster bash" !


Um, Peter Cottontail???


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## msdolittle

ALFA WOLF said:


> we come here because mexico sux's we dont care about being illegals becuase it honestly isnt much worse then being sent back to mexico shutting the border off will make us come back. The whole idea bringing up the issue of sending illegals back was a big frigin mistake. Because if they send them all back then their will be really big riots and protests and bush dont want that so eventually he will back down and then it will get crazy. More imagrents will come back into the U.S. becuase now they know that if they send em back us will riot again and then back down. Bush wasnt the best choice for president and this issue plus many more can back it up. Its times like this that make u wonder what it woudl be like if kerry was president. and it would be great if yall woudl like to prove me wrong because i do this kinda stuff everyday almost all day so ill be very happy if someone tryes to prove me wrong and convince me that we shoudl send them back.
> 
> by the way WE ARE IMMAGRENTS NOT ILLEGALS.


I am very empathetic to the plight of the mexican immigrants. When I first moved to WA state (no longer there) I packed apples for my inlaws..... I heard all about what they'd go through, what life was like in Mexico, and the ordeal to go through to even get across the border...etc.

My question though is, if its so bad......why come to the US and work then move back?? I know the value of money is very different there but you still have the same politics and basic life style. Is that not the major reason for leaving in the first place? I have a hard time having sympathy for the ones that go back and forth, thats just plain taking advantage imo.....but the ones that stay......that have been here a long time........ought to have a chance at citizenship. So that they can have the opportunities the rest of the country (supposedly (rolling my eyes)) has.....and at least be able to contribute productively.


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## shev

I forgot about the monster mash.


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## fish_doc

> by the way WE ARE IMMAGRENTS NOT ILLEGALS.


You can be both, you can be what is called a illegal immigrant. 

Immigrant just means a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there. These can be both legal and illegal.

Illegal means 1) adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal. 2) a person residing in a country of which he/she is not a citizen and who has no official permission to be there (taken from http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/illegal)

My mother and grandparents came here from another country legally. Started working for someone else and eventually my grandpa started his own business that my uncle now runs. They did all this by following the laws waiting for their turn. It is the ILLEGALS that slow those trying to do things the right way from their fair turn.

The way I look at laws is if you speed you broke the law. If you kill you broke the law. Now the punishment should be different but both are still breaking the law. 

By allowing people to enter here illegaly and then being given amnesty my family might not be here today. Because of restrictions on numbers allowed by law to become citizens of this country ever year. So by trying to follow the laws of this country they could have been punished because of those breaking the law. 

So both sides of the coin need to be looked at. Things may be bad in mexico but that dosent mean things are good in all other countries. Just because it is easy for one person to cross the border does not give them the right to take possible freedom from someone trying to escape their country the right way for whatever reason.


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## RockabillyChick

i think its a dumb idea to deport anyone that's already here. i think they need to be allowed a chance to apply for legal citizenship, but they should be at the back of the line, behind people who are trying to become legal the right way from the start.

my main concern is that *WE NEED TO KNOW WHO IS COMING INTO OUR COUNTRY* and with people jumping the border illegally, we have no way of knowing who they are. they are undocumented.

and it is against the law to enter our country without going through the proper channels, therefore, if you jump the border illegally, you use a fake SS card to get a job, then you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN. 

if you apply for citizenship the right way and go through all the proper channels, then you can call yourself an immigrant.

calling these people immigrants is just a slap in the face of all the people over the decades that have risked everything to come here THE RIGHT WAY to build a better life for themselves and their families.


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## angelpimp

Mala said:


> Here's some music for ya
> 
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidsmp&1146794235


Nothing like a good Cheech and Chong song!


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## leveldrummer

i have no problem with imigrants, i do have a problem with illegal imigrants refusing to pay their taxes, using false names in the emergency room so they dont have to pay their doctor bills, they are raping our country, people say they will take jobs that no one wants. i know tons of people who want those jobs but cant work that cheap, imigrants cost of living is much less than ours, they pack 20 people in small houses, pay 10 bucks a person a month in rent... dont pay for health care. 10 of them share a car. so of course they can work cheap. alfa, if you think john kerry would have made a better president... your an idiot. not saying bush is the greatest, buts far better than kerry.
i think this illegal imigration is an invasion of our country. and it really tickes me off. its impossible to "round them up and send em back" but we need to stop more from comming, and we need to get the ones here to pay their share, and learn english and try to do it the american way, not what ever way they want.


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## msdolittle

leveldrummer said:


> i have no problem with imigrants, i do have a problem with illegal imigrants refusing to pay their taxes, using false names in the emergency room so they dont have to pay their doctor bills, they are raping our country, people say they will take jobs that no one wants. i know tons of people who want those jobs but cant work that cheap, imigrants cost of living is much less than ours, they pack 20 people in small houses, pay 10 bucks a person a month in rent... dont pay for health care. 10 of them share a car. so of course they can work cheap. alfa, if you think john kerry would have made a better president... your an idiot. not saying bush is the greatest, buts far better than kerry.
> i think this illegal imigration is an invasion of our country. and it really tickes me off. its impossible to "round them up and send em back" but we need to stop more from comming, and we need to get the ones here to pay their share, and learn english and try to do it the american way, not what ever way they want.



Incredibly well said!!!!


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## Osiris

How about May, we dont have any holiday's in May! National USA Paid Day OFF


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## msdolittle

Mala said:


> How about May, we dont have any holiday's in May! National USA Paid Day OFF


We should get paid days off for Cinco de Mayo!!!


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## leveldrummer

Mala said:


> How about May, we dont have any holiday's in May! National USA Paid Day OFF


i think we are now advanced enough to go ahead and switch the weekend/ weeks around, i say work saturday and sunday... hang around in your underwear around the barbeque all week. yessss.


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## Osiris

Wait a min, yous wants to hang out in my underpants? cool more the merrier!


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## leveldrummer

Mala said:


> Wait a min, yous wants to hang out in my underpants? cool more the merrier!


i dont like the filter, because i cant call you a sick f


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## RockabillyChick

well, mondays almost over and my world has not collapsed. the power is still on, the bridges are still standing, the cable is still on, the stores are still open.

i dont think we need illegals as much as we think we do.

many of the jobs they do are ones that american kids and teens were doing 30-40+ years ago for summer jobs. until all the american kids got spoiled rotten.

i think we could kill two birds with one stone. get rid of the illegals, and then parents make their spoiled little brats go pick fruit and scrub toilets, rake leaves and mow lawns. would get rid of the illegals and would teach the next generation a little responsibility and to value money.


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## msdolittle

I'm down with teaching the spoiled brats some responsibility!!


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## Lydia

RockabillyChick said:


> i think we could kill two birds with one stone. get rid of the illegals, and then parents make their spoiled little brats go pick fruit and scrub toilets, rake leaves and mow lawns. would get rid of the illegals and would teach the next generation a little responsibility and to value money.


I agree! I'm a teenager, I got my first job when I was 11. I got outsourced by a mexican that doesn't even speak english when I was 15! That kind of irked me... I'm fine with mexicans as long as they come here legally. They don't deserve to be in this country if they break the law to get here, and then keep on breaking laws while they are here so they can get out of paying money for whatever reason.

I agree so much with what leveldrummer said. For that matter I agree with what he said about Mala :lol:

This is kinda OT, but has anyone else heard Larry the Cable Guy's song about this?


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## leveldrummer

i say beat them into submission. its more fun.


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## ALFA WOLF

im 14 been working since 11 and i am a mexican...im sry lydia...many of the imagrents dont even want to work they just want to live in us and be left alone.


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## ALFA WOLF

by the way i protested today and to my surpirise we were a lot in number their was one dude protesting against us and then he saw everyone and joined our side


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## RockabillyChick

alfa, i don't know where your getting your info, but when you get right down to it, mexico believes the US stole what is now the southwest and they are slowly but surely stealing it back. however, the US fought the mexicans right back down to mexico city, then mexico surrendered, and we made a deal to let them have up to the rio grande. we could have taken it all, but we didn't.

yeah, i'm sure some of the people who come here legally or otherwise do just want to make a better life for themselves and their families, but most of them come here illegally, work illegally, rape the system for health care, money, and everything they can, then send the money they make working illegally back down to mexico.

not to mention all the drugs that come up from south america, AND it would be just to easy for terrorists to sneak in through that open border. just fly on down to mexico and hop across! 

the illegals are bankrupting the healthcare systems in the southwest states, they refuse to learn our language, and assimilate into our culture like so many generations of immigrants greatfully have before them.

mexico is exporting their poverty to the US and we can't just sit here and let it happen.


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## shev

leveldrummer said:


> your an idiot.



ohhh the irony.


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## fish_doc

Like I said I am not against immigration. My mother, grandfather, grandmother, aunts, and a uncle, are all from overseas. I also have a adopted brother and sister from Korea. 

It is just that we have done this amnesty thing seven times already and every time said it was the last time. So why is everyone so pissed off this time when last time was the "last time"

Until 1986, the United States had never forgiven the act of illegal immigration in other than individual cases and had never rewarded large numbers of illegal aliens with the opportunity for U.S. citizenship. 
Congress has passed 7 amnesties for illegal aliens, starting in 1986.

Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA) Amnesty, 1986: A blanket amnesty for some 2.7 million illegal aliens.
Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens.
Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994.
Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America.
Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti.
Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 400,000 illegal aliens.
LIFE Act Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens.


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## Meeocky

That's funny. The mexicans were cutting the grass at my work yesterday. I guess they didn't get the memo.


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## MaryPa

Well I might as well just copy and paste my response since all the forums I go to have the same thread. 
If it wasn`t for the Mexican workers ( legal or illegal ) we`d have less fruit in the markets because they`re the only people humble enough to pick it. Less road workers,housing contractors would have smaller crews and rich woman would have to do their own house work. Oh and who would build the house trailers for the ********.  The only reason they can get work so easy here is because the American people are too lazy to work so they go on welfare or they think they`re too good to do these jobs. 
If we lived in the conditions they do in their own country what would we do to get our families out of it? Despirate times call for despirate measures. :-( 
Hanover Pennsylvania has a very large Mexican population especially during the planting and harvest seasons. Oh I just think their children and babies are soooooo cute. Yeah if I were in their place I do whatever it took to save my children. 
Oh yes they sure do spend lots of money at Wal-Mart so most of the money they make does stay in the US.

Did I mention 3 of my brothers married 3 sisters who just happens to be 1st generation Mexican American. I`m so happy noone ran their parents back to Mexico or I wouldn`t have such sweet sisters-in-law.:smile:


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## RockabillyChick

marypa, that is the most ignorant thing anyones said in this thread next to alfa_wolf.

for one, i almost wish the money WOULD go to mexico instead of walmart. walmart is just as bad for america as the mexicans are.

kids can go out and pick fruit, and i heard the statistic that if farmers had to pay more for people to go out and harvest their crops, the average price of produce would go up a whopping $0.08. i think americans would happily pay 8 cents more for an apple if it meant the mexicans were no longer allowed to rape our country.

and i have no problem with anyone who wants to come here to make a better life for their families IF THEY DO IT THE RIGHT WAY. that is what immigrants have been doing for decades. my family were immigrants from sweden and scotland about 5 generations ago. this country is made of immigrants, escaping to this wonderful place to make a better life for themselves. and we've all done it the right way. like i said before, its just a slap in the face to everyone who has risked everything to come here legally to have all these people who just skipped the border get special treatment because al these morons think we need them, when we totally don't.


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## fish_doc

*Note to all:* Please keep this non-racial / non-national as illegals are from all countries. The media is pushing the mexican view because they are the largest in number but there are many from other countries that help keep the immigrant numbers high. 

Back to the rant: Do you realize that the illegals are part of the reason social security will not be around when it comes time for me to retire. They take the money out of that account in the way of medicare. So by them taking without putting in I in turn am making less money. In essence I could afford to make less money if I did not have to pay taxes, medicare, and social security. In many cases americans do make the same because of all the taxes taken out of their check. It is just that the company that hires them makes more money. 
I saw a news clip that said the only way to really stop this is to go after the business owners that hire illegals. Without the incentive of work here there would be no reason for foreigners to come here if they cant find work. 
I agree with this to some degree. I say place big fines on those companies and route that money back into medicare, the school system and everywhere that is paying out now for the added strain now.


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## MaryPa

Hmmmmmm, we Americans-by-birth are a greedy bunch aren`t we. Take care of me and mine and all others can just suffer.
What American kid will pick fruit? Has fast will a child pick,oops are we getting into child labor now? Hmm i`m outta this messy thread. Bye ya`ll:argue:


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## fish_doc

MaryPa said:


> Hmmmmmm, we Americans-by-birth are a greedy bunch aren`t we. Take care of me and mine and all others can just suffer.
> What American kid will pick fruit? Has fast will a child pick,oops are we getting into child labor now? Hmm i`m outta this messy thread. Bye ya`ll:argue:


Taking care of me and mine is how my grandpa got my family to this country legally. So even though I am American by birth much of my family is not. And they did not come to this country to pay off everyone elses medical bills through taxes. They came to try and set up enough of a life to be able to pay their own way through life. My grandpa sold his car back around thanksgiving to pay for his headstone so the rest of his family dosent have to worry about expenses when he and grandma do pass away. Money is so tight for them that they only have what is in their room at the retirement center and they are to proud to ask for help much less than take it illegally from those who it belong to. I would gladly help but I can understand how they feel if they took somthing from their grandchild. When we do help we have to be creative. I bought their house from them for more than what it was worth 9 years ago when they started having to sell stuff to pay bills. Grocery store gift cards under their door, Nice gifts at christmas where we lie and say we got a real good deal on them. Anything to let them keep their pride. 

So if by taking care of me and mine helps people like my grandpa reach the end of his life with his pride intact then that is what I need to do. And if you consider that selfish than I would like to meet the person you consider a giving person.


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## Osiris

Way off topic, we're talking about What holidays we should add to the calender year, not politics and crud, Get back on topic!


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## AshleytheGreat

MaryPa said:


> What American kid will pick fruit?


I soooo would!! Its so nice to be outside, plus i can get my tan on!  


Its one thing to come to America illegally, but dont dis-respect the country
Its like kids who say "I HATE SCHOOL"...i mean if you dont like it "LEAVE!"





BTW when is memorial day?


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## msdolittle

AshleytheGreat said:


> Its like kids who say "I HATE SCHOOL"...i mean if you dont like it "LEAVE!"


Oh God.......don't say that!!! Do you know how our country is ranked education wise?? HOLY CRAP its scary how DUMB today's kids are!! (no offense to you smart cookies on here)


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## leveldrummer

like i said before, there are plenty of people who would be glad to pick fruit and build houses, but how can you expect us to do it when we cant feed our families or pay rent, BECAUSE WE CANT COMPETE WITH ILLEGAL'S LOW PRICES? alfa admited that he has worked since he was 11. do you think they payed him enough to support a family? hell no. mexicans are undercutting every buisness because their cost of living is much much less. it usually is when you dont pay taxes, hospital bills, get medicare and food stamps because you get paid under the table. mary pa, im all for taking care of others, i have no problem with them being here, they just need to do their share. pay their taxes, stop claiming 8 dependants. stop giving false names and ss # at the emergency room. you think people just dont want them to have a better life, i do, i understand completly why they want to come here, i dont even mind if they are here illegally. just do your share.


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## Osiris

t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: t: 


Memorial Day is May 29th, 2006.


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## fish_doc

Dont forget Cinco de Mayo on Friday.


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## Osiris

Ya know i actually have off that day! lol. But of course my big order of wild syno multi's come on that day, my new living room set comes that day, my new corals come that day, figured be a good day to kick it!


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## fish_doc

Better keep that living room set in the garage until after that wild party breaks up. Dont want to ruin it on the first day.


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## Osiris

Wild Party  i didnt have planned any female escorts this weekend


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## ALFA WOLF

sryt about gettng off topic but i just wanna say one more thing. Getting legalized will take A LONG LONG LONG TIME. thier is a list of people and to be legalized TODAY you would have had to get your name on the list in 1988. and one way to prove that our governemnt is unfair unjust and doesnt belive in equality is that the ony people that will get legalized quickly are celebrities and thats the truth. winter olympics us team has a canadian for the ice skating so they legalized her in a few hours so she could skate once in 4 years while the mexicans becuase they are not famous. Dont belive me go try yourself. The us has a quick way to ....they draw a name from a hat of 500,000 people.


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## leveldrummer

ever heard of quota's? the us only allows so many mexicans in a year. there is a limit otherwise its an open boarder, thats why it takes so long to get processed from mexico... because so many people want to come. not that many people want to come from canada, so people get through faster. please dont sit there and insult this country, it might not be perfect, but its obviously better than yours or all your people and millions others a year wouldnt want to be part of the american dream. just do your part. pay taxes. pay hospital bills. or go home. we dont need it.


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## RockabillyChick

here in my town, we have a place called "Greenbluff" that is basically plots of land where people grow fruits and veggies, then us city-folk drive out in the summer and fall and PAY THEM to pick our own produce.

the bottom line is that we need to know who is coming into our country, and right now, we don't. that is a biggest national security risk facing us right now. i love this country, i deeply respect the things that people have gone through in trying to start a life here, including my own family about 4 generations ago. and i think we have completely lost sight of the things that made this country great. hard work and pride. pride in yourself, in your country, in your family, in your work.

i work my butt off 40 hours a week at a miserable industrial job for $8.50 an hour (minimum wage here is $7.65) to barely make ends meet, so i am sorry if i sound selfish, but i will not sit here and let all those people out there take my tax dollars that i work hard for, while they just sit on their ass like fat lazy mooching SOB's and rape our social services and legal systems, endanger people with diseases that haven't been seen in the US in 60+ years, rampant drug use, hit and runs, theft, etc. etc. etc.

anyone who breaks the law by the very act of being in this country can kiss my ass and go to hell, because they are TAKING ADVANTAG OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO REALIZE HOW THEY ARE KILLING THIS BEAUTIFUL COUTNRY OF OURS. so i hope you all are happy when the United States of America that you have come to take for granted crumbles beneath your feet and you are left impoverished and controlled by people who don't give one flying **** about you or your family. the very people you are arguing in favor of


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## fish_doc

Hay RockabillyChick - Do you remember what day the may pole is done. I think it is actually in june sometime. I should know Im part swedish too. We could all celebrate that. Lets see if we can fill a entire year with holidays from all over the world so if we travel just right we never have to work again.


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## RockabillyChick

dancing around the may pole was a druidic tradition celebrated at Beltaine. equal numbers of young men and women danced opposite directions around the pole and at the end of the night, whoever your partner was, you went to bed with. if the pairing resulted in a child in the coming year, the union was blessed and the couple was married.

Beltaine is "May Eve" or april 30th.


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## leveldrummer

alot of holidays we celebrate started as druid and paegan holidays, its really neat to research and find out why certain things are celebrated. holloween is a weird one, use to be a sort of thanksgiving. a harvest celebration, now look at it. ghosts and candy...


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## lohachata

most that are here do not want to becomes american citizens.they don't want to have to pay taxes.that is what i have been told by several. a crime is still a crime;wether an individual thinks it is or not.my ex-girlfriend did not feel that it was right for drugs should be illegal.but like so many,she is delusional.
alfa...maybe it is ok for some guy to rape your sister because he feels it is ok and it shouldn't be against the law.
my grandparents came here and applied for and worked hard to become legal citizens.
for me this is not so much about the latino people.it is for anybody that enters this country illegally.but then there are those that do not respect any laws at all.


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## shev

Awwww, you had a wittle job as a kid? you like to go out and pay to pick your own fruit? Aint that cute. But you have to consider those pesky child labor laws, why did we ever need those in the first place? oh yeah to keep them from being treated like crap, as the immigrants are treated now. Getting americans to pick their own fruit? that's funny. When the immigrants protested that day it _did_ hurt. Especially in meatpacking plants, and other intense labor jobs like construction. It isnt so much Mexicans stealing jobs, as American companies illegally importing them and giving them jobs. Large companies love the benefits of hiring an illegal, they dont need to abide by basic safety standards, ages, or minimal wage laws. I think fishdoc had the right idea at punishing the big companies. Walmart is terrible at that. They will even entirely not pay an illegal immigrant, then threaten to deport them. there was a case recently about just that with walmart and a lot of janitors.



> like i said before, there are plenty of people who would be glad to pick fruit and build houses, but how can you expect us to do it when we cant feed our families or pay rent, BECAUSE WE CANT COMPETE WITH ILLEGAL'S LOW PRICES? alfa admited that he has worked since he was 11. do you think they payed him enough to support a family? hell no. mexicans are undercutting every buisness because their cost of living is much much less. it usually is when you dont pay taxes, hospital bills, get medicare and food stamps because you get paid under the table. mary pa, im all for taking care of others, i have no problem with them being here, they just need to do their share. pay their taxes, stop claiming 8 dependants. stop giving false names and ss # at the emergency room. you think people just dont want them to have a better life, i do, i understand completly why they want to come here, i dont even mind if they are here illegally. just do your share.



Ok, just wanted to point out there is a very big difference between legal and illegal immigration. Immigration as a whole produces more wealth in the end picture despite illegal immigration. Legal immigration reduces job outsourcing, which is a much larger problem. It hurts the economy when money is taken out of circulation by being sent to their families in Mexico and doesnt go towards taxes, and it hurts when they compete with workers that would keep the money local. but in the end they do provide a very large pool of labor that children and teenagers can not fill.


of course there are also the moral aspects of letting people in for a chance at a better life. but it just cant be done on a large scale. Only so many people can come in, to the rest... its just "tough luck". I think its great your ancestors got here through lots of hard work. but for some people that arent that lucky, its especially tough luck because they _cant_ legally apply to become american citizens, like in cuba.


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## leveldrummer

deep thoughts from a "synthetic humanoid engineered for violence" no one says these people dont deserve a right to a better life, they could have a better life here if they stop working for pennies. people were hiring them before, they still will, but they even undercut each other in wages. dont act like these companies are hiring them and taking advantage by paying low wages. these people are WORKING for low wages, companies would be stupid not to hire them. but they dont mind working so cheap because they get food stamps, medicare, dont pay taxes. etc etc. i think they do deserve a better right, but they shouldnt destroy our country in the process. hmmm. maybe they can try to fix their own country? elect officials that might do something good? get the cops to stop taking bribes? not just walk over the border and take advantage of our system to better themselves.


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## Osiris

Wonder how many pages this can go.............Could be dang near the longest thread we've had here!


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## msdolittle

leveldrummer said:


> maybe they can try to fix their own country? elect officials that might do something good? get the cops to stop taking bribes? not just walk over the border and take advantage of our system to better themselves.



I don't think its as easy as you imply..... How is one poor farmer in Mexico going to stop a crooked cop that can either shoot him where he stands or put him in a corrupt jail forever? Drugs and money run the country/politicians......no jose schmo is going to beat that. Sorry.


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## Osiris

Ya know, gonna be taking all this talk back the moment that storm of the century changes the face of our planet and we are looking to those we call 3rd world countries for support!


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## leveldrummer

msdolittle said:


> I don't think its as easy as you imply..... How is one poor farmer in Mexico going to stop a crooked cop that can either shoot him where he stands or put him in a corrupt jail forever? Drugs and money run the country/politicians......no jose schmo is going to beat that. Sorry.


i could be wrong, but i dont remember saying it would be easy.... and i dont think their crappy government gives them the right to screw us over, im more than happy to except them here, i guess you didnt read that in me other posts, but they need to be here as americans, not as criminals, and not paying taxes, and making every other american support them is wrong. if they want a free ride they need to leave.


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## Christine

MaryPa said:


> What American kid will pick fruit?


Well, I can't speak for all of America since it seems to vary ... ALOT, but down here in the good ol' south we have quite a few places where people actually PAY to go pick their own fruit...

If parents would stop buying their spoiled kiddies Hummers and whatnot, kids (teens) might find a bit more of a reason to get jobs. Why should they get a job when mom and dad supply them a brand new car, pay for the insurance and gas and give them spending money to boot? I'm sorry it has nothing to do with lazy. Its all about incentive. I started working when I was in the 7th grade. Why? Because I was a spoiled brat who thought I had to have designer clothes and my parents refused to buy them. I had an incentive (granted a stupid one). If parents would stop spoon feeding their kids so much, their kids might learn a bit about responsibility & hard work. And I'm not gonna touch the "welfare incentive" with a 300 foot pole... thats just an ugly place to go in a nice community like this forum.


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## msdolittle

leveldrummer said:


> i could be wrong, but i dont remember saying it would be easy.... and i dont think their crappy government gives them the right to screw us over, im more than happy to except them here, i guess you didnt read that in me other posts, but they need to be here as americans, not as criminals, and not paying taxes, and making every other american support them is wrong. if they want a free ride they need to leave.


I did read your other posts.....but you made it seem a bit simplistic (thats how I took it anyway). And I did read that you are more than happy to accept them here......I just got the impression that you were thinking its easier than it is down in Mexico. Sorry if I misunderstood.


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## leveldrummer

i think you did misunderstand and its ok. i know they have it really tough in their country, i also know that its better here now matter how much everyone complains about this country. but i dont think we should have to foot the bill just to be "P.C." i think all illegals could be very useful in making this country greater, but i dont like anyone taking advantage of our system that is set up to help people who need it, not just anyone too crappy to make ends meet. that includes americans too, but thats a different argument all together.


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## msdolittle

I absolutely agree that we shouldn't tolerate freeloaders.......100% agreeance there! But for me, that goes for ANY freeloader... I hate lazy bums who think they can sit on their rear all day, drinking, breeding, doing nothing and still collect welfare.......


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## leveldrummer

msdolittle said:


> I absolutely agree that we shouldn't tolerate freeloaders.......100% agreeance there! But for me, that goes for ANY freeloader... I hate lazy bums who think they can sit on their rear all day, drinking, breeding, doing nothing and still collect welfare.......


bingo, raping the system.


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