# Spotted Gambusia, and Poecilia Butleri?



## Pandapop (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm considering purchasing two separate auctions for a group of 6 spotted gambusia, and 8 poecilia butleri from a seller on aquabid. I know they are livebearers, and I know they are wild fish. 

Does anyone own these fish, or are at least knowledgeable about them?

Would they do alright in the same sort of setup as say, guppies, mollies, platies, etc? Or will they require special adjustments because they are wild-caught fish?

EDIT:

I've got 6 wild-caught LMB (large-mouth-bass) fry in a 10g by themselves, and they've been in there for over a month... eating micro pellets, freeze-dried bloodworms/brine shrimp, and even wafers. I guess my question is whether or not these other fish will adapt as well as the lmb do?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Treat the spotted gambusia like any other mosquito fish gambusia. Know they are really mean. Read the thread on http://www.fishforums.com/forum/livebearers/26254-domesticating-gambusia.html?highlight=gambusia for how mean and tips on managing aggression. 

I haven't had butleri, but fish of the same genus are usually similar. As you would guppies or domestic mollies, keep in hard, alkaline water, use java moss or hornwort or fake plants to hide fry. Feed both 'bug-like' food and plant-matter food. Search the web for details on specific species. http://www.aquariophil.org/html/poec_butleri.html. I keep endler's and limia perugiae in "Lake Malawi" water and float the plastic plant mats you are expected to bury in the gravel.

Wild fish sometimes need to be weaned onto commercial foods, but most will figure out flakes or pellets when they get hungry enough. Sometimes they will learn by watching the next tank's fish eat. In general, wild fish are more sensitive to poor water quality than 'domesticated' fish. Keep the water clean. 

The other concern with WC is parasites. Both internal and external parasites can come in on wild fish, so QT is even more important. Some people with feed a course of medicated food and a do series of formalin or high-salt dips or keep the fish in ich-meds for a month. Note: if these are wild-type tank-bred descendants of WC fish, they are likely clean, healthy fish. And even wild caught fish may have already endured a similar QT period. My favorite AB sellers get the fish and QT them before offering them for sale. However, some will sell fish as soon as they get them, or even pre-sell them before they come in.

The other thing is to ask the seller. A lot of aquabid sellers will be happy to brief you on basic requirements. This is especially likely to be true of breeders, importers may of may not know how to care for the fish they sell.


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## Pandapop (Dec 29, 2009)

Oh... wow. I really had no idea that the gambusia were so aggressive. I'm not so sure I'd be able to handle that. They'd be in their own species-only tank, but from reading a bit on that thread, they're pretty aggressive towards one another, too? Maybe I'll just pass on these guys, haha. I'd hate to have to spend so much just to have them all ripped to shreds when I come home one evening...

So the matter of spreading parasites, I'm not too concerned with. They wouldn't come into contact with any of my domesticated freshwater fish, so if there were a parasite present, it would stay within their own tank (and it would hopefully be treatable). The only time they would have come into contact with any other fish is if I tried to breed the gambusia with a guppy. But now that sounds way too risky.

I know it's usually frowned upon to interbreed different species of fish and create hybrids (for example guppies and endler's), but I wanted to experiment with the 'Poecilia' species group for my own pleasure (and not to be sold/given to the lfs/released into the wild). 

According to this site: click, users have stated that it's possible to breed the gambusia with guppies. They've also said it's possible to interbreed mollies and guppies together, because they're from the same genus. I've been told the last pair isn't possible? I've never even seen my guppies attempt to mate with my mollies, or vice versa.

As for the Poecilia Butleri, they look like a cross between a swordtail and platy. I'm assuming they're capable of interbreeding with both species of fish mentioned. 

Now that I've got gambusia completely knocked off my 'want' list, I'm looking at various types of endler's... what exactly are limia perugiae?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Limia perugiae are a little molly-like livebearer. My big males are about 3". Females are smaller and silver. Some males look a lot like females, others have nice yellow tails and black-edged sail-fins and blue iridescence on the body. I find them prolific, healthy (I've never had any of these get sick, and no deformed fry ever), & easy to keep. They eat everything, are not at all shy and have more personality than guppies. This isn't my pic, but mine look just like these. http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1568 

They are pretty peaceful, don't bother fry, but males will fight some and also follow females around in guppy-like fashion. Because some of the males look quite different from others, there has been some academic research done on these fish and you can find papers by searching for the species name. Interesting. They are great, but no one has heard of them, I am running out of places to sell locally, I may have to post them on aquabid.

Usually, cross-breeding fish in the same genus is more successful than across genera. But according to the gambusia thread, swords are easier to crossbreed than most fish.

Considering that the only way to make money in FW fish is to create something "new", I won't bust your chops for hybridizing. However, I would ask that if you are working with something rare or endangered, you also set up a separate tank or tub to breed some 'pure' fish for conservation's sake. Its also handy to have some stock for back-crossing. If you stop keeping the fish, please give some fish to someone in a 'species maintenance program'.


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## PaulLamb (Nov 15, 2009)

Hey, I haven't been on the forums in a while. I'm always interested in talking about gambusias, although it seems you've decided not to experiment with them. Only comment I would make is they aren't technically in the genus poecilia anyway, so if your goal is poecilia hybrids then they wouldn't be the best option. Gambusia is their genus name, with several species (the most common being affinis and holbrooki). They can be hybridized with swordtails rather easily, although the mortality rate of the offspring is extremely high, and the survivors all seem to be sterile. Others have reported successful hybridization with guppies (I have found this to be difficult due to the aggression though). A member of Fish Forums also PM'ed me about his project to attempt hybridize with mollies which are probably closer to gambusias on the evolutionary family tree than guppies are, but I've not heard if he's had any luck with that


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