# Need some advice from the pros!



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

I know this belongs in brackish but i figured i would get more immediate responses from the seasoned pros. Feel free to bump if necessary. So i need some advice on how i am going to do my brackish tank i know how im gonna set it up but debating on the filtration method and a few other questions. But first off here is how im going to do it. Its going to be 125g i am going to run rocks along the back side with overhanging rock shelves and a water fall trickling down and one end is going to come up to land there are going to be overhaning branches for my archer to spit bugs off of and live mangroves. I am going to keep monos, scats, archers, gobies, and of course mudskippers. So here is my dilemma im debating how to filter it first i concidered rena canister in tank filters, then i concidered a sump with emperor filters since they come with the tank but now i came up with an idea today after looking through the laguna pond catalog they have out of pond all in one filters with self cleaning systems and uv steralizers which i was told it would keep the algae like bacteria that seems to love brackish. they have one that is rated for 700 gallons first off is this going to be to much? is it going to be to loud? i know you need a pump to pull the water out so i was thinking about putting the pump under the rocks with enough space for particulate to sneak through and make it so the rock on top could easily lift up and the pump be pulled out. also there is a secondary output on the pump so i could use it to run water up for my waterfall but idk if it will be possible to restrict the flow so that the water doesn't just spray everywhere! also the self cleaning system would make it super easy to do water changes it would be perfect for everything if its possible. Here is a link to the pond pump. http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/filters/pfloflitfeat.php?link=153 has anyone done this or have an opinion on this. Other questions would be do you feel there is any reason to have a protein skimmer for brackish? And would it be better to use RO water seeing as i have access to all the free RO i could ever want  and plus i wouldn't have to worry about nasty mineral stains on the glass. And lastly i know scats and monos go full salt as adults but is this 100% necessary for their health? Has anyone had any luck keeping them in brackish long term. If not i may just trade them in at work to be sold in as saltwater and buy new stock of youngins and that way i can know they are finding a good home. If you have any advice for me or know of anything i may be doing wrong feel free to respond and thanks in advance guys. Here is a link to two youtube videos to get an idea of how i want my tank to look just kind of a hybrid between the two just more bad*** and without the gsp's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkr_mpJYce0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8rBDuniXJ4


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## Guest (May 24, 2010)

i LOVED that 90 GL. guess i finally know what i wanna do with my 56.

lol sorry revo am no expert on brackish. but the filter u were talkin about the all in one would be ideal for u. 

your ideal filteration should be between 5x to 10x depending on how heavily stocked the tank is. in ur case i would say the 700 GPH would be just fine. it wouldnt create to much of a current and your water will be well circulated.

skimmer for a brackish set up: i wouldnt spend that much money on a skimmer unless i plan to get the brackish setup to a full saltwater setup.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Eluviet said:


> i LOVED that 90 GL. guess i finally know what i wanna do with my 56.
> 
> lol sorry revo am no expert on brackish. but the filter u were talkin about the all in one would be ideal for u.
> 
> ...


yeah dude i saw those videos and i was like hmmmm YEP doin it! the tank isn't going to be overstocked i wanna keep a nice school of 2-3 a peice on each species and 4 mudskips whats your opinion on the RO?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

omg i think they had anableps in that 90 gallon i saw them on the price list i assumed they couldn't be with the other fish cuz they are super peaceful if they can tho im going to be soooooo pumped they are awesome they call them 4 eyes because their eyes are basically split in half one half looking up and the other looking down and will actually jump for crickets so while the archer is spitting at them they will be jumping and pulling them off branches!


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

I am by no means a brackish expert but man that first video make me want to be!
How much money are you trying to pour into this?
As far as I do know a protein skimmer is not needed. Especially since you wont actually have 125 gallons worth of brackish water.
Now seeing as you wont actually have 125 gallons in your tank I am thinking your going to have a very hard time running such a powerful filter on that tank. Thats gonna be one heck of a water fall. lol
I recommend R/O water for any tank you have. and it will also help to cut algae down.
as far as the scat/mono question I can't help you, hopefully someone can, I know there are a couple brackish master on this site.
You should start a sort of running thread on this tank updating us on all your ideas and construction with pics and diagrams and what not. I find that helps a lot in the process.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Also I have heard some full saltwater fish can adapt to brackish, you may want to look that up. I have seen some pretty cool eels that do well in brackish but they may be too big. Also I looked at the pump and on second thought that will probably work just fine.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

yeah i planned on doing some drawings and wanted to start curing the wood the tank is in the process of being paid for at work so i want to gather the supplies before hand unfortunately bills are do this week and next so money is tied up until then. money wise im not concerned as of right now but probably looking at at least $1000 the tank itself is costing me around 370 but then if i decide not to use them emperor 400's that come with it i may make at least 100 back on that and im assuming the filter is going to cost 100-300 its the smallest version so im not sure and the pump another 100 but i can get those all through work so i will get 30% off but now as for actually being able to use the pump im going to have to do some avid research in the next few days if no one has tried this before but im sure there could be ways to restrict the flow the pump may say 700 gallons but its just because thats the max it can do it really depends on the pump you buy because its the pump that does all the work so i may be able to find a smaller gph and maybe get some narrow tubing or possible synch it to restrict flow to the waterfall so long as i dont damage the pump but i dont think that will be a problem because if i get one that is rated under 700 then when i synch the secondary output its just going to send the extra water through the filter rather than the waterfall. and im really concerned about the noise but my mom has a very similar pond pump only much bigger and i dont think its that loud! Oh gotta love the part where the mudskipper jumps and takes food from his hand!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

forgot to mention.... yeah the more i think about it RO is going to be the best choice especially since i wont have to keep the glass clean  i wasn't looking forward to that! i think using a pond pump and filter is going to keep it spotless also the amount of particulate it will suck up. its so perfect how the filter has and indicator light to show when to clean it then u flip a switch and it cleans and drains the bad stuff from a third hose then flip it back and it continues normal circulation. i showed a lady that pump at work she bought one for one of her ponds came back and bought two more for her other ponds!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

just looked up the pump its 400 bucks lol maybe i should pay 50 more and get the next bigger one but dont know if it will fit under the tank still not sure exactly how i wanna filter it some more input would be great hopefully there is someone around here that has actually tried this or if anyone has a filter like this for their pond could tell me how noisy they are


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

I would DIY a sump filter, however with the tank not filled fully this will require it to be drilled for piping. A sump would run cheaper. I am unsure on how you expect the emperors to be able to pull the water to the height they will be stationed at. I mean mangroves require a considerable amount of room. 

If you go full RO water you will need to reconstitute it. Or you need to use a mix of RO and tap.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Mikaila31 said:


> I would DIY a sump filter, however with the tank not filled fully this will require it to be drilled for piping. A sump would run cheaper. I am unsure on how you expect the emperors to be able to pull the water to the height they will be stationed at. I mean mangroves require a considerable amount of room.
> 
> If you go full RO water you will need to reconstitute it. Or you need to use a mix of RO and tap.


the emperors would be on the sump itself thats how we have it for our salt water tanks at work. what all would you need to add to the RO to make it ok for brackish someone told me alls you have to do is add see salt


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

RO water is completely pure, it has no trace nutrients/minerals which you need. Using only RO water will lead to deficiencies in the tank inhabitants. You can buy products to do this, or like I said you need to use a RO/tap water mix that way the water is not lacking all trace elements.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Mikaila31 said:


> RO water is completely pure, it has no trace nutrients/minerals which you need. Using only RO water will lead to deficiencies in the tank inhabitants. You can buy products to do this, or like I said you need to use a RO/tap water mix that way the water is not lacking all trace elements.


i know it has no trace elements but what i was asking is if it was true what i was told which is adding the salt for brackish adds back the trace elements. I was about to buy some RO right and stuff today but then someone said i didn't need it so i thought i would hold off and ask everyone here.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Salt water mix (essentially dried-up sea water) is added to RO to make saltwater. I don't see why it wouldn't work for brackish. Sea salt has lots of minerals, most likely everything brackish fish need. But brackish will give you that lovely white crud on the filter, the lid and wherever you drip tank water. Once you add to it, RO is isn't RO water anymore. Using RO instead of tap should make a more consistent water (same amount of salt should give you the same pH, etc.) Not sure how important it is to brackish fish. I would expect fish that live in places where freshwater mixes with salt to be fairly tolerant of swings. Not like saltwater fish that live in a nice, consistent ocean with the pH of blood.

Emperors are the filter most often sold by salt-water fish keepers. They are strong end effective enough to get recommended for even full-salt tanks. But the way they spray and let the water fall makes for a nice salt crust on everything. People start with them and trade them for traditional sumps. I think running emperors on a sump would work, but its probably overkill. The flow of water from the pump should be enough to make a decent filter if you choose the media well. Pond pumps move lots of water and they are durable. But check specs on the heat generated and noise it makes. Those two things aren't really important outside on a big pond, but can matter a lot to a tank in the house.
Ditto the self-contained pond filters that have their own pumps. Skimmers are supposed to work better in brackish than fresh, but not as well as in full-salt. 

Hope you get some better info. I don't have to tell you to double check everything you hear on the web.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

yeah i think the salt crust is going to be better than the whit mineral deposits you get from all the **** in tap water its a lot easier to clean off to. Yeah i dont think they create much heat since the pump itself is sumbersable i dont think the filter will generate heat so my biggest concern now is the noise lol and cost. I probably would do a sump but i have no idea how it would work when the tank isn't completely full.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

To confirm, the salt mix does contain the minerals you need to reconstitute RO water. I use that mix for my salt water tank. 

Also, since water evaporates this is extremely important to remember in a salt or brackish tank. When the water evaporates, DO NOT top it off with salt water. Top it off with RO water. The water evaporates but the salt and minerals do not. If you top it off with salt (or brackish) water, you will be making the salt more concentrated in the water. Eventually the water will become too salty for your fish.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

bmlbytes said:


> To confirm, the salt mix does contain the minerals you need to reconstitute RO water. I use that mix for my salt water tank.
> 
> Also, since water evaporates this is extremely important to remember in a salt or brackish tank. When the water evaporates, DO NOT top it off with salt water. Top it off with RO water. The water evaporates but the salt and minerals do not. If you top it off with salt (or brackish) water, you will be making the salt more concentrated in the water. Eventually the water will become too salty for your fish.


lol i know this but its good for the people who read this that may not know.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

No, the crust will suck. Saltwater has 3 times the bicarbonate of fresh. Carbonate makes it hard. Add in the protein scum from the high-quality food and you have a nasty rime. Trust me, I buy the emperors from the salt water enthusiasts. no fun to clean. The only way to reduce it is to keep wet wet and dry dry. Anyplace where water meets air or the water level varies is likely to get coated. Here is where, IMO, canisters have a big advantage. All those things to "aerate" the bacteria, like the biowheels are a source of evaporation and mess.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

emc7 said:


> No, the crust will suck. Saltwater has 3 times the bicarbonate of fresh. Carbonate makes it hard. Add in the protein scum from the high-quality food and you have a nasty rime. Trust me, I buy the emperors from the salt water enthusiasts. no fun to clean. The only way to reduce it is to keep wet wet and dry dry. Anyplace where water meets air or the water level varies is likely to get coated. Here is where, IMO, canisters have a big advantage. All those things to "aerate" the bacteria, like the biowheels are a source of evaporation and mess.


i have an emperor running on my brackish tank right now its been on there for a few months and it hasn't been two bad and we have them on all the salt tanks at work and they stay pretty nice and clean its more the glass that im worried about.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The glass will be fine if you wipe up all drips immediately, have a good tight lid, and don't have any "under the rim" leaks. I have a few tanks where the water just creeps under the rim in one place and oozes down the outside. If the tank is buffered for cichlids, I get those ugly white lines. The fix is to pop the top trim off and put in back on with a bead of fresh sealant all around.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

emc7 said:


> The glass will be fine if you wipe up all drips immediately, have a good tight lid, and don't have any "under the rim" leaks. I have a few tanks where the water just creeps under the rim in one place and oozes down the outside. If the tank is buffered for cichlids, I get those ugly white lines. The fix is to pop the top trim off and put in back on with a bead of fresh sealant all around.


i mean the inside of the glass seeing as the tank is only going to be 3/4 of the way full and now i think i may be getting a 180 gallon instead at the size of adult scats monos and archers i think they will be much more comfortable pluss the height of a 180 is a much needed increase. also if anyone knows the answer to this it would be great. I was wondering first off if anableps (four eyed fish) can be housed with archers, scats, monos, gudgeons, and mudskippers. and secondly exactly how big can a captive breed one get i have not been able to find anything online about it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think you have to rinse the inside of glass with RO water and scrub it where you see lines forming, maybe once a week. You just don't want the crud to build up where it get sprayed. The more usual problem with partly full tanks is that they steam up and you can't see in. Here you see solutions like a computer fan blowing on the glass or a thin layer of glycerin. There are lots of 'anti-fog' products, but I don't know which are fish-safe. Maybe try the frog/reptile boards. 

Sorry I don't know anything about the brackish fish. Anableps are really neat. Best of luck.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

yeah ive still got a lot of planning to do lol i just want the tank set up NOW!!!


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

I can attest for the condensation issue. I once had a pretty awesome 110 gallon terrarium with plants and fish and frogs and terrestrial lizards. The only thing that I really hated about it was I could never see inside of it because of all the condensation. Otherwise I did use tap water in it and I never had any problem with any build up on the glass. Salt will be a much different story though.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah all the sides of my paludarium and terranium get covered with condensation eventually so much is runs down the insides back into the water.


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