# Here we go.



## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I am going to do a planted tank. That only took 2 years LOL. I am also insane, which some already know. 

The tank is a 20 gallon long
It will house 1-5 puffers depending on what kind I get. 5 if I get pea/dwarf puffers 1 if I get a GSP or figure 8. Just to note: I am NOT looking for advice on the puffers. I am working with the puffer forum for that. 
I have T-5 lights
I have a glass top, no hood. 
AC30 or 50 will be the filter, more likely the 50. 
It will have a sand bottom (black) and I am sure I will need some flourite or something along those lines. 
I will not be using C02, thus the insanity. 

I am looking for information on a few things:
1. what are some good plants that will help keep this system in balance without the C02?
2. Do I have to use flourite and if so how much? 
3. What are the parameters I need to monitor?
4. If this tank needs to be brackish what do I need to look out for? I know some plants will not work with salt in the tank. 

I will be starting this tank from scratch and not using any media from any of my other tanks. I am looking to avoid any possible diseases from coming into the tank. Therefore it will go through a full fishless cycle, and then some to make sure it is stable as the puffers need a stable and established tank. This means there will be time to work out all of this plant stuff in the meantime. I am sure I will have more questions as I go along. 

Thanks!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

geez.......can't you do a tank with real fish..puffers are so disgustingly nasty..only an old sea haggy would have puffers.........
are you planning on full fresh water or a brackish tank??
using a sand substrate is ok except for the gas pocket issue..might want some mts in there..
good luck on your new adventure ; i think you are going to love it..


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Yeah yeah yeah goat boy. Puffers are fun!!! (Or at least I am hoping they will be).

I will go full freshwater unless I decide on a GSP or Figure 8. I could get a SAP or the Dwarf puffers for full freshwater. I am leaning towards full fresh. 

I am fine with the MTS especially given the puffer food preference  I have pond snails for them too.


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## SouthernBelle23 (Mar 24, 2009)

Hardy plants like Java fern, Anubias, and some Cryptocorynes are probably your best bet for brackish. There are some others listed here: http://plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=8&filter=&filter_by=&page=1.

Do you know how many watts your light fixture is? That will decide what plants will do well. If you have enough light, fast growing stem plants are your best bet for going without co2, especially if you have a fair amount of light. Here is a link to stem plants and it tells you how much light (low, moderate, high...etc...).

If you want sand and you want something with nutrients, Flourite makes a black sand. I've tried it and I don't like it. I don't think I rinsed mine well though...it clouded up every time I messed with the plants. I've also tried pool filter sand and I didn't care for it either...it collected debri and algae and ended up looking really nasty after a while....it looked great in the beginning though!  If you can find some type of natural looking sand....like a beige color, it shouldn't show algae or debri as bad as the really light pool sand. And as far as nutrients go, you can always pop some fertilizer root tabs in the sand to help the plants out.

You don't have to use Flourite unless you just like it. 

For parameters, you really don't need to monitor anything differently than an unplanted fw tank. I might keep more of a check on the nitrates and don't let them get too low. Plants will take in nitrates, but hopefully the puffers will produce enough waste to keep the plants happy. I rarely test in either of my fw tanks.

Adding the plants in during cycling should speed up the process.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

With T5's I would stick below 1.5WPG, if they are HO tubes then don't go over 1 WPG. Expect algae initially. Personally I would set it up with some ottos for the first month until it stabilizes, then go with the DP.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Obsidian said:


> Yeah yeah yeah goat boy.


ROFLMAO



Obsidian said:


> I am leaning towards full fresh.


Obs:

I am proud that you are heading this direction.

This is just my two cents WRT this issue.

With all the experience with FW I still have not been able to go a couple of years without some type of problem (albeit in recent history they have been minor).

My fish keeping is for my enjoyment of my fishies and my plants with minimal maintenance.

You/we are all very familiar with the accomplishment of the above in the FW world.




Obsidian said:


> I am going to do a planted tank. That only took 2 years LOL. I am also insane, which some already know.
> 
> The tank is a 20 gallon long
> ...
> I have T-5 lights.


What is the total wattage of and the K value of the bulbs?




Obsidian said:


> It will have a sand bottom (black) and I am sure I will need some flourite or something along those lines.


I cannot remember if you have sand in your other tank and cannot find the photograph but aggregate is preferable to sand for several reasons.

You do not need flourite although the black diamond may accomplish the aesthetic effect which you are after but in the long run I believe that you will be happier with your rooted plants with an improved substrate such as flourite.

Please refer to my substrate article.




Obsidian said:


> I will not be using C02, thus the insanity.


I know that CO2 was JOM's response to all plant problems but it is not necessary for a nice planted tank.


Obs: I am assuming that you are going FW with 1.5 to 2.0 WPG and 10000K bulbs.


Obsidian said:


> I am looking for information on a few things:
> 1. what are some good plants that will help keep this system in balance without the C02?
> As this is your "first go" Anubias and Amazon Swords.
> 
> ...



Additional Items:

1) Do not forget the rocks and driftwood with holes and caves as well as bottom dwellers (I have found BN Pleco's to be 1st class).

2) You can have a nice planted tank fertilizing only with Flourish but you may want to start out in the dry fert world.

TR


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

OK this is what I have for the lights. I did not pay too much attention to much other than they were the only T-5 24" tubes I could find. I just now realize I actually got actinics. Whoops: 

I have "Aqualight T-5" series. "24 inch 10,000K & True Actinic 03 Blue T5 Fluorescent Lamps." In the picture it looks like one bulb is daylight and the other is actinic, however when I open the package there is not a blue bulb so I am wondering if it just has 2 fluorescent ones. (or does the other one look blue when it gets turned on?) I know I can change out the bulbs if I want to/need to. They are 14 watts. So if I have 2 14watt tubes does that mean 28 watts total? If that is the case then I will have 1.4 WPG and would want plants that would do well in that range. 

For substrate I am going to be using "CaribSea Black Tahitian Moon Sand" I have this on hand. I will use the fertilizer root tabs I think for nutrients. As long as I don't "have" to use something like flourite then I won't. I would rather stick with what I have. I really like the idea of black sand. My black pebble tank looks great. I may hate it in the end, but I think it will be good. I have some ornaments that I rolled in a really deep blue sand that I am going to use in the tank as well. 

Ron: Yes I will have lots of driftwood and rocks for the puffers  And it is great to see you around  I might add that we nearly had you. At least we made you sweat  Go Huskers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## guppyart (Jan 22, 2005)

actinics look the same till you light them up generally so you have to test to find out


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Obsidian said:


> I have "Aqualight T-5" series. "24 inch 10,000K & True Actinic 03 Blue T5 Fluorescent Lamps." In the picture it looks like one bulb is daylight and the other is actinic, however when I open the package there is not a blue bulb so I am wondering if it just has 2 fluorescent ones. (or does the other one look blue when it gets turned on?)


Obs:

Before I forget (and I already have some) are you setting this up in the open space (as best I remember from the photographs) contiguous to your back door to ease up the maintenance?

The 10000K is actually white light which will work. (I do not like the yellowish tint which the daylight bulbs emit.)

I believe (I have experimented so much with lighting types ...) that when you fire up the fixture the 03 bulb will emit a blueish tint light (although not the same spectrum as the 7000K bulbs) and will not be very useful for plants so you will probably be running a 1WPG equivalent.

I have never experimented with plants with this low of power.

The 03 bulb's light will enhance the colors which you perceive of your fish.




Obsidian said:


> As long as I don't "have" to use something like flourite then I won't.


You do not "have" to.




Obsidian said:


> And it is great to see you around


Thanks.

At least for a little while (this chemo is h...l).




Obsidian said:


> I might add that we nearly had you. At least we made you sweat  Go Huskers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Never a doubt! Never a doubt!

BUT the Blackshirts are definitely back in FULL FORCE!

TR


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

jones57742 said:


> Obs:
> 
> Before I forget (and I already have some) are you setting this up in the open space (as best I remember from the photographs) contiguous to your back door to ease up the maintenance?
> TR


Jones I prefer the body building fashion of maintaining a 20. I'll let you know if it ever works! (With a 20 gallon tank it generally takes me 2 to 2.5 buckets depending on how much I have removed. I dump into a large kitchen trashcan, then I drag this about 30 feet and dump it in my bathtub. This is honestly not a difficult task. Check out the guns!)


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

OK the lights were not right at all. I needed 30". Whoops. So I fixed that. I have 2 18 watt freshwater bulbs from Coralife. I put up a journal in the journal section so I don't want to do a lot of repetition. 

I think there is some microsword at petco and I like the way that looks. It says high light requirements. I am thinking it might work at the light level that I have since its almost 2wpg and it is a 20 long not high so it would not have to go through too much depth. So I think I am going to try that for the foreground. I would love to find another bronze wedntii but I didn't see any last time I went to petsmart.


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