# Just bought a Fluval Edge :)



## SamHogan

Bought one of the awesome fluval edges yesterday, filled it up with tank water from my current set up, added some xtra water to top it up, a bottle of safe start.

Got a nice big piece of bogwood as the centerpiece with plants coming off and from behind it, with some pebels also around the bogwood.

And today i added to teeny weeny rams, there about 2-4 CM in length, so small and cute, i plan to add them into my 4 foot long cichld tank im setting up when they are adult. there so tiny so they should be okay to live in the edge for a couple of months.

Just wondering what different types of rams you can purchase, as mine are a yellow orange colour.


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## NatBarry

They may be small but im afraid to say they still require a bigger tank. Be careful on which fish you choose to add in the future, the only fish id add to a tank that size would be things like dwarf gourami's, neons etc.


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## SamHogan

They are doing swell so far, there juve's so will be okay for atleast a couple or months only the length of the width of my thumb. And the only fish in there, so there is plenty of space for them at the moment, as i say, im in the process of finding a nice 4 footer, probably going to be a fluval roma 240 for a mixed cichlid tank, and once big enough will move them into there.

I am wondering what sort of bottom scavengers i could add though, you know to go round eating the left over food at the bottom and bits of broken away plant. Would 2 cory's be okay? What could you suggest? Ill take a piccy of the edge when i can, it looks brilliant! I think being a a graphic designer by trade is really having a good effect on the way i design my tanks lol.


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## NatBarry

I wouldn't add anymore fish and cory's need shoals and so 2 wouldn't be enough.


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## SamHogan

Theres enough scope in the tank for something else. What are the smallest sort of loach then, something that will scavenge not just live on algae? I dont want to put clowns in there? pakistani loaches?


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## NatBarry

Noo get loaches out of your head lol, a few kuhli loaches would be ok as they stay small and I used to keep 3 in a 10 gallon. Dont add any other loaches, pakistani need a 20/30 gallon atleast.


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## SamHogan

I added one baby red tail shark. He'l do the trick! `


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## hXcChic22

Those red tail sharks are nasty little things. Don't be surprised if your rams get killed. 
Our red tail killed several of his tank mates. You shouldn't have one in an Edge tank, they are practically too big even if they are young. They get to me 4-5 inches in no time.


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## SamHogan

Ive kept one before and he was completley fine, just see how it goes.


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## NatBarry

Im sorry to say this but you are making mistakes with all the fish you buy, none of those fish deserve to be in small tanks. Sharks can grow quite big and get more aggressive as they get older, don't be surprised if he kills your rams.


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## SamHogan

Oh my freeking god, listen, i have a clue what im doing, ive kept many tanks in the past and worked at halls garden centre in the aquatics department, the rams are 3 cm long max, and the red tail shark is tiny! its a baby! I know the edge isnt going to be good enough for them in the long term, but i have atleast 3 months with those fish being perfectly happy untill there big enough to go into a big 4 foot tank i am currently in the process of buying. My other tank, is brilliant, every fish in there is perfectly happy, and i succesfully achieved a 14 fish in cycle the day after i brought it, and that tank is now a month down the line, with no problems and the fish are loving it! I'm not making mistakes what so ever, im buying fish that im allowing to grow in nice size aquariums that are perfect for them at the current time, and setting them up a nice big one to move into.


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## hXcChic22

SamHogan said:


> Oh my freeking god, listen, i have a clue what im doing, ive kept many tanks in the past and worked at halls garden centre in the aquatics department, the rams are 3 cm long max, and the red tail shark is tiny! its a baby! I know the edge isnt going to be good enough for them in the long term, but i have atleast 3 months with those fish being perfectly happy untill there big enough to go into a big 4 foot tank i am currently in the process of buying. My other tank, is brilliant, every fish in there is perfectly happy, and i succesfully achieved a 14 fish in cycle the day after i brought it, and that tank is now a month down the line, with no problems and the fish are loving it! I'm not making mistakes what so ever, im buying fish that im allowing to grow in nice size aquariums that are perfect for them at the current time, and setting them up a nice big one to move into.


We're not trying to be outright rude, we're just trying to save you from some future heartache. You don't usually take any of our advice, so why do you even ask for it in the first place? 
It's just common sense that you shouldn't put a very aggressive fish in with ones that are not, no matter how small it is, and especially with so little room for it to make a territory. I've seen how small those Edge's are, and considering how VERY (and how quickly) red tails get territorial, you are setting yourself up for disaster. We didn't have our red tail for a whole three months before it had KILLED other fish in its tank, and it was in a 29, which is significantly more room than what you're working with. 
And frankly, managing to keep 14 fish alive in a new tank was just sheer dumb luck. Take it from someone who knows, who lost almost an entire tank's worth of fish from not knowing what the heck we were doing. 
I just don't get why you ask what to do, completely disregard what we recommend, then get mad when we try to tell you you're heading down a bad road.


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## Guest

na am just gonna be rude with this dude.

he is totally right folks! leave him be. i'm willin to lay my ride on the line that this lil poser is gonna come crawling back here whinin to the highest heavens when that red tail kills his baby rams. 

makes me wonder if people are just plain ol stupid or are they being born with slightly less grey matter in the skull that makes them believe everything they do is the absolute right thing. 

As for the OP: rams? there are a new line called Electric Blue Rams and also Golden Rams. answers your question? cheers!


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## NatBarry

I completely agree, we don't like having to tell people these things but fish do grow. They may be small now but i've seen sharks get up to 4/5 inches within weeks, you have the wrong fish in both tanks and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you lost them.


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## SamHogan

See this is where im getting annoyed, im not asking for advice, im asking for opinions, You lot seem to over read the fact i have kept 50 - 80 gallon tanks in the past.

My first set up with the 14 fish is awesome! they love their tank, they all get along, and are all always active, not one has died! But again you all seem to overlook the fact THAT I AM IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING a bigger tank, to get the parrots in particular moved into, although at this current time their size is perfectly adequate for the tank size.

Regards the edge, The rams will also be moving into the bigger mixed cichlid community im setting up. But there so small at the moment, the edge is fine for them, It's their tank, there not stressed, and enjoy the space they have. 

Regards the red tail shark, I have kept these in the past, and NEVER, had bad expiriences, the one ive just bought, dosent stop working, cleaning, scaveging, he has no issues with the rams, and there getting along, He also will be moved once bigger.

So what the hell is with all your ego's? There isnt a freekin fish keeping bible that has to be abided by, you can break the rules and reap the benefits. Which im currently doing at the moment. E.G my 20 gal and the 14 fish in cycle.

If none of you wish to believe me, i will regulary keep you updated with pictures. But you may not want that, as my aquascaping could leave you a little envious.

All im saying is, you all seem to be a bit doom and gloom, or you are all afraid to expiriment. Or you cant handle being wrong and just keep wishing to tell me my fish are going to die, when there just not!


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## SamHogan

Eluviet, whats your ride? How do you wish to send it me?


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## Fishy:)

Hey, you need to listen to these people. They know what they are doing, and all they are doing is trying to help YOU. In another forum, I was new and didnt know a thing about fish. This guy said that I should really get a heater and to listen to the 1" per gallon rule, but I didnt listen to him. And now guess what? I gave the new fish back to the petstore, and now my remaining fish are stressed, I have ammonia and nitrite spikes, and I have ich. Now, if I had listened to him I would never have this problem. Im just trying to let you know, that these people are amazing and awesome with fish, and maybe you are too, but it doesnt seem like that now.


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## SamHogan

Well i think i am pretty good, if my tanks at the moment are thriving! not either of them are going as all the "experts" on here have predicted!


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## NatBarry

We're not trying to be enemies, you may be experienced but we're just trying to help and stop you from making those wrong decisions. You should appreciate that even if we do seem a bit 'gloomy' at times, your fish may be surviving but we're just concerned as those 14 fish in that size tank deserve bigger and better, god knows how they have survived. I guess we'll just leave it to you in the future, good luck.


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## cossie333

look guys i have in a way gotta stick up for him as i moved forums as the other sed i was overstocked and that my fishwould die in a few weeks as i have a 34l with 13 fish in but i did rehome the plec.

however 4 months down the line they are thriving it is kinda being a bit oversensitive

however mine might be luck but if u say they are babies and u get the bigger ank in the next couple of months u may be ok but to be safe listen to the guys


good luck


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## Deino0oZ

they gave you theyre opinions!
you didnt like them so dont take them and dont ask!
stop being such a hard head and actually try to listen to what theyre sayin!
-Jeeesh!


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## bmlbytes

I think everyone needs to cool down. SamHogan, realize that the majority of people on here are new at the hobby and so we talk to people we dont know well as if they are new. If you were a brand new hobbyist this would be a very big mistake and not at all an uncommon one. If you have a method to keeping fish like this, just say so. People will likely still give their opinions, but that is all they are, opinions. No need to get angry, everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you.

As for everyone else, (s)he is buying a suitable tank. Leave him/her alone. I know that most of the experienced members here have tried something at some point that nobody recommended. It may be a mistake, but that is how we learn. When you were growing up I am sure your parents told you not to touch hot things, but at some point you did, and realized what a mistake it was to burn yourself. From then on you probably did your best to resist touching hot things. This is how people learn. If you think someone is making a mistake, tell them and move on. It's their problem if they don't listen.


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## Guest

a larger tank is fine and dandy! totally cool imo! question is this: how long with a juvie ram survive in a tank with a juvie redtailed shark? anyone have a rough time frame?

Sam rams in a mixed cichlid tank? what exactly are u 'experimenting' with here is what has me puzzled.....and oh....my ride.......come and get it if you want. aint gonna be shippin it.


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## emc7

listen to bml folks. Warn once, then let it go. Focus on the original question. No one changes their mind because they are being nagged. Do not make personal attacks (you're dense). Don't make specific predictions (Your fish will all die). Do make sensible warnings (you will see more aggression when the fish reaches maturity) or specific things to watch for (if you see nipped fin,...). Use qualifiers like "in my experience", distinguish between what you've actually seen, and what you've read. Oddly enough, people are more likely to listen to a honest newb than an unverified "expert". A lot of people get pissed if you tell them what to do, even if their last post was, "What do I do?" I tell them what I would do. "I wouldn't do that, because..." seems to work better than "You're nuts to even think about..." . I try never to say "I told you so", but its sometimes really tempting. 

We tend to treat stocking as if thats the only tank you will ever have, because most people do get only one tank. i personally keep a lot of fish in "too small" tanks, but I will move them as they grow bigger. 

Don't get offended, explain your situation better. And don't waste our time. People that chat with you are giving you a gift of their precious time, its rude to call them names for it even if you don't agree with them. 

I give the best advice I can, the advice that is most likely to be successful. So it is safe advice, with a margin for error. People who are asking for help aren't people who should be pushing the envelope. Sure I could say, "lets try an experiment and grow and oscar in a bowl and see if it gets bowl-shaped", but this is a forum of people who mostly want to see happy, healthy fish, not test results.


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## bmlbytes

emc7 said:


> Sure I could say, "lets try an experiment and grow and oscar in a bowl and see if it gets bowl-shaped", but this is a forum of people who mostly want to see happy, healthy fish, not test results.


A guy at one of the LFS I sometimes go to told me almost that exact same thing one time. He told me he wants to put an oscar in a 5 gallon tank, and change the water twice a day so it is clean. He wanted to see what would happen to the fish.


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## emc7

I did see pictures an experiment once where discus in a 2.5 gallon tank grew faster than their siblings in a 55. He kept the little tank close to the sink and pitcher and just changed water like once an hour all day long. It was a gallon pitcher, so like 40%. He ended it when they got so big turning around was a tight fit for the fish. He wouldn't risk fin damage, let alone squashing. So it really isn't the tank size, its the water volume that matters. Personally, I find it easier to do weekly water changes in a big tank, than hourly ones in a small one. But you can't automatically assume a small tank will have poor water quality. On the other hand, you can predict aggression problems with cichlids in small tank, no matter how much water is changed.

Every so often we get someone on the board proposing "experiments" involving a fish "fight club" or Dr. Mengele-type, see how much abuse fish can take before they die, "experiments". Usually its the same kids that pull the wings off flies. Mostly people don't get the concept. In a controlled experiment, you take 2 similar things and subject them to different conditions, measure a numeric value, and record the results. I have no problems with something like comparing filters or additives on identical tanks and using something like a nitrate test for the data. I do have a problem with "I like to experiment" when it really means "I'll do whatever I feel like at the moment and I don't care what happens to the fish". What i don't understand is why people who feel this way feel compelled to post all about it on the forum. I really don't need to hear the blow-by-blow of what happens to 3 oscars, a dempsey, and an auratus in a 10 gallon. I know the "result" of the experiment when I read the list.


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## Guest

the way i see it is this: in this hobby we have basically 2 types of people: 

the 1st: 
the ones who read, research, pay attention and accept feed back/critisizim and use it to better thier tanks and fish

and the 2nd:
the ones who JUST CANT help themselves from trying an 'experiment' when 90% of the populus here says its a bad idea, possibly endangering the life of the fish, a good waste of money, having these weird twisted unwarranted urges....oh the word am lookin for is Moron!

question is this: which type do you classify your self?


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## emc7

Choice in rams. Except for Bolivian Rams, all are the same species. Wild type, often called blue ram. "German blue" ram, like the wild type, just line bred for more blue color often indistinguishable from fish sold as blue rams. Gold rams, similar to the blue, but lacking some of the black color, especially the spot on the side, and line-bred for golden or orange color. "Electric blue", like an EBJD the whole side is an iridescent greenish blue color. You can also find long-finned versions of blue and gold rams. Bolivian rams are a similar fish in the same genus, but a different species, Microgeophagus altispinosa. They are slightly bigger, and are reported to tolerate cooler, harder water and be less disease-prone than the "traditional" ram, M. ramirezi. I've also seen" Mikrogeophagus", "Papillochromis", or "Apistogramma" used as the genus and altispinosus as the species.


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## SamHogan

Fish are all still okay, in both tanks, the rams are perfectly happy, and the shark dosent even bother them, ive even added 4 cherry barbs to just get a bit more going on, ill get a pic uploaded so you can understand the size of my fish to the tank, there is more than enough space for them at the moment!


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