# Heeelllp! Tank readings...



## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Alright, I just did my tank readings. 

I change my water once a week. Probably about 25%
There are currently 3 cories in there. That's all.
I have a wisper 10i filter. I haven't changed the filter in probably a month and a half. (Might be a possible issue? Not sure.)

I feed them twice a day, normal amounts of food. When I do change the water I always use the gravel vac.

Their lights are on about 8 hours/day.

Um, not sure what else to add in.

All of the fish are absolutely fine. They've actually been way more active this week than they have in past weeks. They're eating a ton and everything.

However, here are the readings I got. By the way, I just stopped using amquel plus and started using the tetra bioextra (Bioextract? something along those lines) water purifyer. Perhaps I'm getting whacked readings due to chemicals mixing between the two?

pH:7.6 - It's always been that. Should I get a pH down formula for the cories? Eventually I will get fancy guppies when I have money to feed them and take care of them.
Ammonia - ~3.0
NitrIte - ~3.0-5.0 (The color was kinda between the two) I have NEVER gotten this reading before.
NitrAte - ~3.0-5.0 I've also NEVER gotten this reading before.

The ammonia has always read anywhere from 1.0-4.0 since I got the test kit probably a month and a half ago. I was advised not to use amquel plus because it could mess up this reading.

So yeah. Tell me anything I should buy and anything I should do. Water changes are obvious and I've done a TON this past month.

Is ammo-lock any good? 

Should I just do a water change and wait this out to make sure the two purifyers aren't screwing up my readings?

I would think my fish would be barely alive with these readings, and they're totally active.

Thanks so much for your help. I appreciate it so much. =)

PS - Tank has been up and running for almost three months now. Since december '07.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I am going to give you my total non-traditionalist view here. Here goes:

1- Gravel vac and water changes are great. However, you need to build a bacterial culture to digest harmful wastes from your fish and decaying food. There are two main places where these bacterial colonies form. One of them is in the filter so don't mess with your filter too much. The other main place is in your gravel bed. When you gravel vac a new tank every week, you are sucking up some of the bacterial colonies along with the poop that they are eating. That isn't helping.

2- Whisper filter? I have never found Whisper filters to be particularly effective. I would recommend that you try something like a HOT Magnum, Emperor, or Rena. Place the new filter but DON'T get rid of your old filter. Run both filters for about a month to allow bacterial colonies to migrate from your current filter. You might want to run both filters at a reduced volume so as not to create too much current in your tank that might upset your fish.

Ammo-lock or ammo-chips are very useful.

Your pH is a bit high. However, this may be okay because your supplier's pH may be a bit high as well. You don't want to have too much of a difference between your pH and the pH at your source of fish.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Hmm.. Alright, so maybe the gravel vac is what's creating this huge change in water readings because I'm screwing up the cycle and it has to sort of do a mini cycle now?

So should I do the gravel vac maybe like once a month?

My filter isn't great. I'm going to look into reviews for others.... But right now I don't have money for that, so I'm working with what I've got. I mean, I could do something if the filter broke, but it's working and it holds bacteria for my fish... So it's staying for now. I'm still unsure if I'm gunna get new fish before I get a new filter or not. I probably won't.

I will definitely go and get some ammo lock or ammo chips.

And yeah, my supplier's water and mine would be the same water, my house is within walking-distance (Probably like a mile) from my house. However, I have a water softener... I don't think that changes the pH, though, as it only adds like calcium and.. some other ion. That wouldn't affect it. (Yay chemistry nerdiness!)

Thanks for your help. =)


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh, lemme add something on to that. I don't vacuum ALL the gravel. MAYBE half of it. I don't bother with where the decorations are.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

For what it's worth. I agree do not vac. the gravel while cycling the tank- just remove uneaten food.
Cut the food to once a day very sparingly. You can even feed alternate days. This will help the bio filter catch up with the ammonia.
Your Ph levels are just fine. Don't mess with them!!
Whisper filters work ok. I use one on my goldfish tank- no probs with it. However I do not use the filter material they sell to go with it. Do yourself a favor and cut the filter pad open and throw out the charcoal. Use the mesh part of the pad until it is so full of debris that it is no good. Throw some bio beads into the bottom of the filter and a piece of foam filter pad-- what ever you can cram in there.
When cleaning time comes just swish everything in the filter in dirty tank water and then put back into the filter.

Charcoal will leach its contents back into the water and is a waste of money EXCEPT when you want to clear the water of dyes or medications. otherwise it is not necessary. Reuse the filter pad for months at a time-- so much cheaper and it maintains the biological filter of the tank.
Ammo lock and amquel do not really mess up the readings. They only convert the toxic ammonia to non toxic ammonium.
The lower your ph the less toxic ammonia is, but the more toxic nitrites become if I remember correctly.
Use Seachem prime as a water conditioner and avoid having to fool around with the other chemicals. It protects the fish against ammonia and nitrites.
A little aquarium salt in the tank will help the fish thru the nitrite stage if you can't afford Prime.
After 3 months you should have been finished with the cycle process so somewhere along the line it seems your tank has had a crash and is now recycling.
Go easy on all that gravel cleaning. I had a crash once due to being too clean!:chair:


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Since your tank is only 10 gallons, a HOT magnum or any other canister might be overkill. I'd invest in an Aquaclear 20 or 30. Love them.

I think something's wrong with your test kit.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I didn't realize the tank is only 10 gallons. A HOT Magnum shouldn't be put on a tank that small. Too much current.

I doubt that the water softener is the cause of your problem. If anything, it might help your fish to have somewhat softer water if your local tap is so hard as to merit softening. If you are really concerned, for a small tank it is practical to use bottled water but usually not necessary.

For the Whisper system, I would agree that it is best to modify the filter pouch. The last time I owned a Whisper, the pouches came un-stuffed. You would pull the black plastic frame from the old pouch, put it in a new pouch, and fill it. They used to provide a little packet of cheap charcoal. I always threw out their charcoal and used an ammo-carb mix and a few pieces of plastic media like small bio-balls or cones.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Thank you for the filter modification. I will definitely look into that.. perhaps tomorrow?

And yes, I was looking into the aquaclear filters.. I couldn't remember the name off the top of my head, though, so I didn't state which one.

I will start feeding every other day, as I don't think they really eat ALL of the food I'm giving them.. Probably just most and then the rest probably goes to the filter. Should I stop feeding them the wardley shrimp pellets? They break apart VERY quickly and generally cause a bit of debris.

Should I test a bottled water with my test kit and see what the readings are? I could also probably get distilled water, which would have nothing (AKA readings should be completely zero). That way I could see if my test kit is faulty.

Thank you guys soooo much. You guys are my saviors. =)

I will update you all tomorrow with what happens.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, test water with your kit. You should always test the test before taking drastic action. Whenever you have water quality issues, cut back on feedings (skipping the shrimp pellets for a while sounds like a good idea). It is possible you are just overwhelming the little filter (I run those on 5 gallons, with a sponge filter, too) with feedings. Adding a second filter is a good idea. A good water conditioner "detoxiifies (complexes)" nasties and may be why your fish are not dead. The "detoxified" ammonia & nitrite show up on some tests kit, but not necessarily all of them. So changing conditioner could have made it visible. Or something (power failure overnight) could have messed with your biology and you need to re-cycle. 

I vaguely remember water softeners do ion exchange. You feed them NaCl (in blocks). I think the Cl- replaces the CO3- in the water and lowers the kH. So if your water tastes salty, its not your imagination. 

Are you using tetra Blackwater extract? That has tannins in it that could tint your water and mess with your test readings.


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## oliesminis (May 7, 2007)

i would reccomend taking a water sample to a lfs to get it checked to make sure your test kit is working ok

400TH POST 

-olie


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

emc7 said:


> Are you using tetra Blackwater extract? That has tannins in it that could tint your water and mess with your test readings.


Nope.

Today I noticed one of my fish has both eyes popping out... I looked it up (Was figuring it's popeye) but it says it's abdominal dropsy which is from dirty water... My water is not dirty! 

Could this be from bad food or something?

Also, what do you guys think it is? I trust you all more than random sites. =P


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you really have nitrite, your water is dirty. Change 50% ASAP.


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## oliesminis (May 7, 2007)

daily water changes are needed, but dont do more than that as over water changes can be dangerous


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Sorry.. That was an oddly worded question...

Edit: Are you saying I need to do water changes once a day to get my chemical levels down?

I can't right now, as one of my cories has dropsy. 

Update: Today I did a 50% water change and put in two packets of Maracyn II (per directions). I need to continue medicating my fish for four more days, one packet/day... And hopefully the dropsy will be gone. It just showed up this morning and has progressed crazily on my poor fish. I couldn't do anything about it this morning 'cause I had no idea what to do and I had to leave for classes. So, they are now bathing in medication. =) Hopefully I can rescue him/her... I've been very successful with rescues. =)

Also, to those of you who gave me the idea of getting rid of the filter contents and adding in my own stuff.. Can you guys tell me how I do that? I was kind of confused with what I've been given and I just don't want to do it wrong. Also, is this something I should do ASAP or is it OK if I wait a few months? I really need to save up as much money as possible right now... 

Just give me a list of what I need to buy and perhaps if you could draw a quick diagram on MS paint or something to show me what to do (where I place the foam, the old filter cloth stuff, and the black sponge thingy, and the bioballs/whatever else was suggested)? Maybe there's already someone who has posted something of that sort?

Thanks so much. =)


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

mousey said:


> Do yourself a favor and cut the filter pad open and throw out the charcoal. Use the mesh part of the pad until it is so full of debris that it is no good. Throw some bio beads into the bottom of the filter and a piece of foam filter pad-- what ever you can cram in there.
> When cleaning time comes just swish everything in the filter in dirty tank water and then put back into the filter.


This is what I was confused about.

Is it OK if I just put bioballs into the filter pad pouch, or should I just take that out and put stuff at the bottom of the filter and cram foam in there?

Also, will it mess up my tank (bacteria-wise) if I pull out the filter pad and put a new one in?

Thanks. =)


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Don't throw out your old filter pad. You need whatever cultures are on it.

You need the following:
-Ammo-carb chips or something similar
-Bio balls (You can use balls, nuts, cones, whatever they have at your local store)

Open your filter pouch. If you have to cut it, do so. Dump out the stuff that is in there (cheap small grain black charcoal, most likely). Fill the pouch with as much ammo-carbs and bio balls as you can.

I have recently had good luck with a new tank using Bio-Spira. This is a pouch of live nitrogen-fixing bacteria. It is sold at a few LFS and a 1 ounce package, sufficient for your tank, will run around $15. If this works, it will jump start your cycling overnight. If you choose to do this, don't do it until you are done with the Maracyn, have done a heavy water change, dechlorinated, etc and waited for a day or so. Bio-Spira can cycle a tank overnight if used correctly and not killed by a medication.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanks for the filter modification. I'll get to that as soon as I can.

I looked for bio spira... It's not at the LFS and would cost probably $30 to have it shipped. Plus, it's below freezing temps where I live which I would assume would kill the bacteria.... So, it's not really an option right now. =\

My poor cory is worse today... But i'm still medicating so we'll see what happens.

Would it be OK to add in some Maracyn I (I'm only using Maracyn II) or would it be of no use? (For dropsy)

Thanks guys. =)


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You do need to dump the carbon (black stuff) out or it will lessen the effectiveness of the meds. Maracyn I is ok to mix with Maracyn II, but I can't say if it will help.



> Edit: Are you saying I need to do water changes once a day to get my chemical levels down?


 This is what I'm saying. Whenever your nitrite or ammonia levels are in the dangerous range, your fish are more likely to get sick. It the levels get too high, nitrite can kill fish outright. 

An established tank shouldn't have any ammonia, or nitrite, but something could have happened to damage your filter's biology (like the intake clogged and it got no flow), or you exceeded the filters capacity by overfeeding or having dead fish rotting.

Add Prime or something else that claims to "detoxify ammonia and nitrite" and use the highest recommended (emergency) dose (usually 4X normal) to help your fish survive the high levels.

After the medication period, put some new carbon in the filter for a day or two to remove residual meds, then throw that carbon out and follow the advise about sponges or bioballs in the filter. 



> will it mess up my tank (bacteria-wise) if I pull out the filter pad and put a new one in?


 Yes it will (assuming you do have bacteria). This is one reason I recommend having 2 filters. If you follow the filter's instructions and change the whole cartridge once a month, you throw out your filter just when it finally gets cycled. Using an extra sponge in with the cartridge can make all the difference. 

When you are done medicating, treat your tank like its brand new and watch the levels and change water when they rise.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

What in the heck is going on here, I wonder?

Okay, first thing first, verify the accuracy of your test kit. I don't believe those numbers.

Next, just stop. Your tank sounds like it's in complete turmoil from everything you're doing to it, and that's not good for the fish. Let things settle down for a few days and see what happens. You might lose some fish, you might not, but if you do it's still better than losing the whole tank. Keep medicating since you're already doing that, but lay off o everything else for a bit.

Add a second filter. Never clean both filters at the same time. Clean them on alternate months

You said your cories were friskier than ever, and then you said they got hugely fat. When cories swell with eggs, which they often do after acting friskier than ever, they get hugely fat. I think that MAYBE things might have been going good until you wrecked them. That all depends on the accuracy of your test kits, which must be verified ASAP.

A pH of 7.6 is pretty much perfect, especially if you want guppies.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

I just reread your post and saw you have the internal whisper filter, not the standard HOB one. I've heard that those are absolute crap. I recommend getting a new filter asap.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I use those filters myself, and while they're far from top of the line, they aren't really all THAT bad. They do clog up fairly quickly, though, so you have to watch them. Snails also have a bad habit of getting inside them and clogging up the impeller.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Amquel will definately cause false ammonia readings with most test kits - it usually says on the bottle which kits to use, but in my experience its never the kit I have 
So that might be whats up with the ammonia.
The nitrite however sounds like your still cycling.

I'm going to agree with TOS - just leave everything be for a bit and let things stabilize on their own.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh, then perhaps that's the issue, that my filter is clogged?

Well, how do I go about this now? I've only got one filter. Just leave it?

Water is definitely still flowing through the filter though.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

TheOldSalt said:


> Okay, first thing first, verify the accuracy of your test kit. I don't believe those numbers.


I'll check it out with bottled water tomorrow. Don't have time tonight.



TheOldSalt said:


> Next, just stop. Your tank sounds like it's in complete turmoil from everything you're doing to it, and that's not good for the fish. Let things settle down for a few days and see what happens. You might lose some fish, you might not, but if you do it's still better than losing the whole tank. Keep medicating since you're already doing that, but lay off o everything else for a bit.


I don't understand what I'm doing too much. I was doing weekly water changes and that was all. I had done nothing more. However, I made a mistake and was vacuuming the gravel every week for maybe three weeks. I didn't think that would affect the tank too much, as it was only about half of the gravel, if that. Clarify that please?



TheOldSalt said:


> Add a second filter. Never clean both filters at the same time. Clean them on alternate months


Is an aquaclear a good choice or could I just get another wisper 10i and just do the bioball modification?



TheOldSalt said:


> You said your cories were friskier than ever, and then you said they got hugely fat. When cories swell with eggs, which they often do after acting friskier than ever, they get hugely fat. I think that MAYBE things might have been going good until you wrecked them. That all depends on the accuracy of your test kits, which must be verified ASAP.
> 
> A pH of 7.6 is pretty much perfect, especially if you want guppies.


I wouldn't really say they were frisky. I mean, one was... But that one isn't the diseased one. They were just more active and were eating a bit more.

New update for tonight - The cory that has dropsy now has a red spot on the side. It is sort of like an ulcer - it bulges outward but not any huge bulge... Just sort of as if it got cut and then it started healing over. Any ideas on what this is?

I cannot make it to the pet store tomorrow, as I have classes all day long. I will have to go on Friday.

And, I really don't want babies... As I only have one 10g and have NO ROOM for another tank unless it wants to be placed next to a drum set, which I really don't think will happen. And, I'm going away to college next year and the dorm rules are 10g max. =\


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Hmmm.. well, it sounded like you were doing a lot more than that.

Aquaclear is fine.

Guppies are a bad idea if you want to avoid babies.

It's an infection, maybe a mild one, maybe a bad one.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh, with the guppies I will be getting all males. Or trying my hardest to get all males.

I'll keep medicating with the maracyn II.

What do you think of a second 10i filter - modified with bioballs and such instead of the carbon. Should I just invest in a Aquaclear? (I really don't have the money for that right now...=\)

Tonight I will test bottled water. Tomorrow I will have to do a water change because I'll have finished day 5 of Maracyn treatment... And then I'll retest the water after I do that.


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

My filter has one of those black netty sponge things that holds in a lot of stuff. With that, and the gravel having bacteria, would it be safe to pull out the old white filter pouch and put in a new one with bioballs and whatnot?

I'm off to the store now to buy
-Maracyn II
-New betta food
-Omega One veggie wafers
-Bioballs
-That ammo stuff to add in...

=\

I'll wait to see a response before I take out the filter and change the stuff in it. =)


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## Googlybubble (Jan 17, 2008)

Sorry for triple posting.

Here is what I bought:

Foam - http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/1\1556110605B.jpg

Biomax in a netted bag thing - http://www.arcatapet.com/fullsize/10443.jpg

And ammochips in a bag thing - http://di1.shopping.com/images/pi/d7/a7/cd/29559686-177x150-0-0.jpg

Is this stuff good to replace in my filter? 

They also had this - http://www.petco.com/product/4088/Hagen-Fluval-External-Power-Filter-Media.aspx

And another fluval filter media thing like that. Should I get those instead?

They had no bioballs at the LFS, should I go to petco?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

It has been about a week. Any progress so far?


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