# New Fish Die Everytime.



## Luke (May 24, 2011)

Un-Explained Fish Mortality

We are having a strange problem, every fish we introduce our 10 gallon freshwater tank dies, while 1 tetra seems totally unaffected... We, my roommate and I, are at wits end. We are not new to owning freshwater fish. And my roommate, Chuck, owned a pet store for a good while. Over the past 6 months we have been working on this aquarium. 7 fish during 4 different introductions all died within 6 hours! 

Chuck, the roommate, has had the aquarium since he owned a pet store in April 2009. He started with 3 Danios Glowfish and 3 Black Neon Tetras. 1 Anubis Barterii, 1 Crypto Croyne Wendetii and Java Ferns where planted in 20 pounds of pet store bought gravel. (I have no clue as to those plant spellings) It has one tetra still living in it and the little fish is dong fine. It is active, eats every other day, and exhibits all the signs of a healthy fish. 

The aquarium filtration and water exchange is a combo store-bought and home grown concept. A back-pack filter with activated carbon as well as Zeolite Crystals creates the bio-filtration part of the system and a second 10 gallon tank holds a surplus 5-7.5 gallons of extra water. The extra water is piped in by a small sump pump and PVC. Extra care was given to cleaning each component and MSDS sheets where consulted for environmental impact analysis for usage in wet environments like this one. Every thing has check out as ok to include the adhesive for the pipes. And the glue is used very sparingly for the few valve connections that we do not want leaking or moving. The other joints are just fitted very tightly and do not leak.

Our water chemistry in the beginning was awful. Elevated Ammonia and a low Ph may have killed all our original fish save one tetra. We buffered the water, change it at as much as 50% every time until a balanced water Ph was reached and the bio-filtration showed signs of Ammonia Nitrite Nitrate Cycling. The 4 different times we added fish each group did not live long. At first we thought slight ammonia elevation was the problem. 

The first 2 fish were Red tailed Sharks and golden algae eaters. The second time we tried a second pare of the same. Because of the tetra’s natural desire to school, we wanted to get more of his species. We tried 2 black neon tetras and they died within 4 hours. Aright after that our fish looked very sick with white tips of his fins and tail. We bought medicine and he recovered soon after. We are not sure if I was fungal or inflicted injury that caused the white spotting. Yesterday we picked out a Cory Doras Julii. He lived 5 hours and was found dead at the bottom of the tank. 

We have tried drip acclimating the fish, matching the temperatures of the water and testing the stores water along side our own. We keep our tank clean and filter the gravel using a gravel vack… We wait at least 2 days before introducing new fish. All the starter ‘do’s and don not’s’ are followed. We are not sure what to do so we are turning to the web for answers. I am personally pained to be killing off so many fish. Please help! You may e-mail me at [email protected] if you are so inclined. 

Luke


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

first off you need to quit killing your fish...after that....
make sure of your temps...76-78 degrees F.
put your test kit in the cupboard....lock the cupboard.....
go to the pet store and buy 2 danios or something like that...
feed once or twice a day...
float the bag in the tanks for about 10 minutes..net the fish out of the bag and put them in the tank..
leave the damned tank alone for 3 weeks...add a few more fish..NO REDTAIL SHARKS !!
leave the damned tank alone for another 2 weeks..
let me know what happens...
keep your mitts off the test kit...
once or twice a week smell your tank....what does it smell like..let me know..
the more you screw around with your tank ; the more problems you make for yourself..
oh yeah...your filtration system sucks..all you need is a decent HOB or undergravel or sponge filter...your wizardry doesn't do anything to help your fish...this is a simple 10 gallon freshwater tank we are talking about ; not some kind of space travel experiment..
i know you aren't happy about my crazy ranting ; but you two guys haven't been doing too hot on your own so far....


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

There you go with the fish-in cycling again


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

read my friend..tank has been in operation for 6 months..how long do you figure it takes to cycle..lol
i can't help it if i am such an idiot...i come by it honestly..


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## kittykatydid08 (Mar 19, 2011)

lohachata: Do you do water changes during the three weeks and two weeks that you are supposed to leave the tank alone? I am just wondering because we have high ammonia in our tanks, but it has not affected any fish other than my Otos. We have been told that it is just a cycle that the tank has to go through, but I just don't know for sure because the staying that high cannot be good for them.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

What we might have here is a case of the old fish having gradually gotten used to the tank's bad conditions while new fish can't survive them. I've seen this happen numerous times with nitrate buildup. We like to think of it as mostly harmless, but then again, it usually only builds up gradually. New fish plopped into a high-nitrate tank will very often not take it very well at all.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

lohachata said:


> read my friend..tank has been in operation for 6 months..how long do you figure it takes to cycle..lol
> i can't help it if i am such an idiot...i come by it honestly..


It maybe cycled for the one fish that won't die, that doesn't stop a mini cycle from happening when he increases the bioload to 3 fish....


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i agree TOS...have seen this happen before...even with a small bioload such as 1 fish..
i have also seen where constant testing can cause a little confusion because a lot of people aren't realizing what is happening...that's why i say to put the test kit away..

kitty.....i cycle my tanks with fish in them...i do 30-50% water every week...on every tank..cycled or not..

even in a semi cycled tank ; the increased bioload of 3 small fish would be almost undetectable..

almost every fish we buy from the stores comes from uncycled tanks...or semi cycled..
or at least tanks that are not fishless cycled..it is just too costly to tie up a bunch of empty tanks for a month or so waiting for it to cycle.


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## kittykatydid08 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks. We are new to having aquariums and didn't really know and understand the whole cycling thing. We have several fish and have added some new ones but almost all of them have been mollys and I have heard that they are pretty hardy fish. 
Another question if you don't mind, when you water change do you add the chemicals for the amount you are changing or for the amount of water in the tank?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i avoid using chemicals in my tanks as much as possible..as far as dechlorinating the water when i do water changes....i don't dechlorinate unless i change more than 40%..when i do ; i only put in for the amount of water i will be adding..there is no chlorine in the water that is already in the tank so it doesn't need to be dechlorinated again..if i change 50% of the water in a 20 gallon tank , only 10 gallons of water will have chlorine..so i actually only need to treat for 10 gallons.and actually i don't even have to do that much..i might only treat for 4 or 5 gallons..seeing as only 25% of the tank water would have much chlorine...i know...my logic is kind of twisted...but i have never had a problem in the more than 35 years i have been doing this...
but i assure you...i do everything wrong....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

treat the water in a bucket and you don't have to worry about wasting dechlor. Use something that 'detoxifies' ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and you shouldn't be killing fish with 'cycling'. 

Killing mollies repeatedly could be as simple as the store keeps them salty and you don't. Dying within hours is likely water. Could be toxins or shock from very different water.

Drink your tank water. I dare you. Can you stand to? Does it taste like dirt? high nitrates, change water. Does it taste tart, like lemonade or vinetgar? Low pH, change water. Does it taste like solvent or chemicals? your plumbing is toxic.

Don't feed new fish.


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## Hansolo (Sep 10, 2010)

emc7 said:


> treat the water in a bucket and you don't have to worry about wasting dechlor. Use something that 'detoxifies' ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and you shouldn't be killing fish with 'cycling'.
> 
> Killing mollies repeatedly could be as simple as the store keeps them salty and you don't. Dying within hours is likely water. Could be toxins or shock from very different water.
> 
> ...


I have drank water from my tanks to prove a point to some friends. Tastes just like Fiji.  I guess I'm not the one losing fish though......today anyway.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

lohachata said:


> i agree TOS...have seen this happen before...even with a small bioload such as 1 fish..
> i have also seen where constant testing can cause a little confusion because a lot of people aren't realizing what is happening...that's why i say to put the test kit away..
> 
> kitty.....i cycle my tanks with fish in them...i do 30-50% water every week...on every tank..cycled or not..
> ...


I respectfully disagree.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

On a side note, I suppose that someone should mention how bad an idea it is to drink aquarium water. Our tanks house various species from around the world, and many of them are downright nasty if swallowed. _Verrry_ nasty.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Oh, half the weird parasites on House are in fish tanks. But if you can't stand the smell or taste of the water, neither can your fish. I used to have a cat that would test for me by drinking out of the filter. When she sniffed and backed away, I'd know to change water soon.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Well apart from the plethora of bacteria, some of my tanks test better then my tap water. I have well water so I don't add anything to them apart from harmless dry fertilizers. 

I would not be bothered at drinking my tank water. I study biology too, so I know well what is in there. There are certain streams and rivers I will fill water bottles up at when hiking or kayaking around my house. Laying in grass can expose you to some of the most common human intestinal worms in the US and other diseases too. I'll take my chances.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think the original poster didn't come back. Oh, well. We were only guessing anyway. 

I can do without guinea worm and worms in my eye-fluid. But I don't hesitate to start siphon by mouth. After a few mouthfuls, you get the trick of it. Humans are evolved to deals with bugs in the gut. Read one theory that says we are fat and have allergies because our water is too clean and we don't have enough intestinal parasites to share our food and occupy our immune systems. I'm not convinced enough to swallow some worms, though.

I'm actually more worried about giving the fish disease. A human vector can take disease out of QT and pass it around.


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