# New Malawi setup



## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

I just got my tank today and I set it up with coral sand and tufa rock. Its a 190 litre (55 Gallon) corner fitting tank.

I dont think I have enough rocks yet and was wondering if any malawi experts could help *cough* MPro *cough* :lol: I havent put too much sand in as I heard they'll just dig it up anyway and I wouldnt want a rock falling on my precious tank would I  Advice on plants would be cool too - Ive heard malawis like plants but often uproot them anyways?

Also any ideas on fish which are happy together? Im looking for 2/3 different colours of fish 

Heres a pic - no background yet...lets just say my organisation & planning skills could be improved :king:


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## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

If you keep your base rock down in the sand you wont have to worry about them digging it out from beneath and causing rock to topple over. If you dont put enough sand down you'll end up with bare spots with the tank bottom showing. 
Mbuna will shred plants. Java fern and Anubias would be your best bet.
Aulonocara and most Haplochromines would do better with plants if I'm not mistaken.
As far as fish... Boy, theres SO MANY :-D . The main thing that i would tell you is not to keep Aulonocara/Haplochromines with Mbuna, unless its a Labidochromis caeruleus (yellow lab). I'm not saying that you CANT do it, but Mbuna can be ruthless at times. Thats just my quick $.02.

Oh yeah, tank looks good so far.


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

definatly thicken your sand bed, more rocks too, stack them nicely so that it creates little pockets beneath them and the fish will only dig that pocket larger. you definatly want the cichlids to dig, thats all the fun of having them.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

thx guys :mrgreen: 

One thing, will jouvenilles start digging as soon as i put them in their new home or do they have to mature first to be able to pick up the sand? Im looking for fish with similar colourations to the johanni and the auratus, I would like to have some fish with horizontal stripes, some with vertical bars, and some with near solid colours like the yellow lab


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

I have yellow labs, blue cobalt zebras and red zebras in my tank. There are others though that are more colorful.. MalawianPro has posted some nice pics - you should check them out!


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## IloveCichlids (Jul 11, 2005)

You could also use "egg crate" light diffuser found at any hardware store of electrical supply house underneath your rock structure to combat the digging underneath the rock as well as disperse the weight of the rocks on the bottom glass. I would definetely say more rocks and to thicken your sand bed some. I have went back and forth on the plant idea in my 120 and have went back to no plants in the tank. I have put a few fake plants embedded into the rocks in my tang. 55 for some color. YOu might also want to go with some color on your rock or some sort of dark background as too much light colored aquascape can bleach out the color of your Africans.

I would go with a few peackocks and haps in your tank, go with an all male tank and you will not have as much of a digging problem. Mbuna dig a lot esp. when breeding and if you get some pairs they will breed a lot and you will have children all over your tank.

your fish selection will also depend on what is available in your area unless you buy online. I have found the best prices from local breeders. You can post ads for local breeders on diff. forums and see what you come up with. Buyer beware of what you are getting though. See what they have and find some info on the species esp. a photo and take it with you when you meet with a breeder so you know what you are getting.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Ok ive just added dechlorinator and im gonna leave it a few hours before I put the cycle solution in  I also bought pH, nitrite and ammonia test kits


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

the yellow labs are great fish, most pet stores carry kenyi's, bumble bees, and auratus. i would stay away from these three if you dont want overly aggressive fish, the auratus isnt too bad if you keep males, but you cant tell untill the reach maturity. and to answer your question yes. they will start diggin in the first couple days no matter how old they are, as long as there is still some territory to claim.


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

Fraser said:


> Ok ive just added dechlorinator and im gonna leave it a few hours before I put the cycle solution in  I also bought pH, nitrite and ammonia test kits


You'll also want to get the nitrate test kit :-D


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

What kind of "cycle solution"?


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## N1z (Nov 21, 2005)

nitrate aint a must need tbh, nitrite and ammonia are the killers only nitrate is a killer after a long time but cichlids are highly hardy m8. i did a 96lt with 12 types of cichlids and got a pair for julies to breed and rear the fry with no probs but that was when i was n00b so put any sort of cichlid in but dont have them now  but decent fish went doing the landscaping!


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

I was told in the shop nitrate levels arent as important as the ammonia and nitrite levels since theyre immediately toxic to the fish.

ron v: the cycle solution i bought was simply called "Cycle" and its made by Nutrafin, Hagen. Says it adds beneficial bacteria to the tank which then multiplies to create a stable nitrogen cycle. Also says it repairs filters damaged by medications and treatment solutions. If anyone could tell me of any better ones on the market id be thankful 

Another thing I wanted to know is if plants significantly contribute to a well established nitrogen cycle? Do they remove nitrites and nitrates from the water for their own nutrition? So far Ive decided not to add plants to the tank as they arent necessary for the type of fish but I might consider putting them in if they help out in the cycle.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Fraser, if you haven't already put the "cycle" in your tank, don't. It is at best, a waste of money and it may actually do more damage than good. It certainly won't do anything to help your biological cycle. I would recommend a product called Biospira. It is expensive and I must admit, I have never used it but I trust the judgement of people I know that have.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2005)

i've used bio spira on 3 of my tanks....each time i've used it my tank was successfully cycled within a few days. it works great. it's really worth the investment if you are eager about getting fish.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

How do i know if the tank is succesfully cycled?


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## IloveCichlids (Jul 11, 2005)

you will have the ammonia spike then the nitrite spike, once those two are complete then your tank will be cycled.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

that is, if you add ammonia in the first place... fish create ammonia so you can add a few fish when you add biospira, or pure ammonia from the grocery store would do the trick... if you just add the biospira and no ammonia the bacteria in biospira will die.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2005)

right, sorry. forgot to mention that. fish and biospira need to be added at the same time.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Is it best testing it on some of the fish from my other tank?

Basically the guy in the shop told me to use the cycle after dechlorinating the water and leave it for about a week to get the right pH and hardness..then I can buy the fish I want for it. I never used dechlorinator or cycle solutions when I setup my original tank, I just left it for a week and put the fish in and they were fine - in fact I still have 2 fish from that tank I setup 5 years ago in my currently stocked tank 

One thing I noticed was the water went slightly cloudy once I added the dechlorinator conditioner solution, is this normal and how long will it take to clear?

As for the ammonia spikes and the nitrite spikes, how do I know when these occur? I have a testing set for each of these which has a solution, a pipette and intructions/colour indications. Could someone fully explain what Im looking for  I only setup the tank about 30 hours ago so Im not sure when its time to test ammonia and then nitrite levels


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Pretty nice tank. I would suggest adding some more color to it though.

Can't comment on what cichlids are whatever to get as I barely know anything about them yet lol.

For the bio-spira, if you do get ti like they said, add some ammonia in any way you can. I don't really recommend adding fish right with it thogh, let it get established and hook onto things for a few days before adding fish.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

I dont know if this means much but my filter has one of these in it too, a nitrate sponge section in its filter.










_The nitrate removal sponge effectively removes nitrate from your aquarium therefore dramatically improving conditions for both fish and plants. Less nitrates means less algae, better plant growth and healthier fish, all the things we strive for as fish keepers.

The sponge contains microbes and enzymes which consume nitrate.

Simply replace one of the upper blue sponges in your filter with the nitrate removal sponge. The nitrate removal action of the sponge should last for approx. 6 weeks. _

And this is the cycle I got..


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## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

Just don't start thinking that the sponge is a replacment for water changes! I'm a bit skeptical about that "nitrate removal" claim anyway.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

I gathered it only assists it, I will be water changing as usual when the fish are in!

Ive read about this "bio-spira" stuff on a few websites - good and bad things. Apparently it works overnight? Some people on another forum I googled said their tank still had 0.25 ammonia and that when they put the fish in they were at the top a lot gasping!

Do you all recommend trying it if I can get a hold of it and is it ok to use it if ive already put "cycle" in the tank?


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

here is a quick run down on cycling a tank, fish less cycles you have to add ammonia, with regular cycles, you have to add a fish or two. get two very hardy fish. start testing the water once a day for ammonia, the ammonia will rise dramatically over a few days (spike #1) as it starts to rise you will start to get nitrite levels, as bacteria forms to process the ammonia. then the nitrite will spike ( #2) as bacteria forms to process that you will get nitrate, both you ammonia and nitrite will eventually read 0. thats when the cycle is finished. the nitrate isnt toxic unless its in large amounts, thats what water changes are for. this whole process usually takes about a month. after that you can add more fish, but add them slowly (one or 2 a week) till your stocked or you can overload the tank with to much ammonia and you run into more problems with bacteria blooms (white cloudy water) and all kinds of junk like that. just take your time, its worth the wait.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Thanks a lot man, that helps SO much :-D :wink: 

I think I will just take my time with putting them in as you say, its just a case of having SOMETHING swimming around in it hehe. Any ideas what fish are good for testing? I mean is it a case of dumping in any *****y fin nipping mother****ers for the shear fun of it :lol: ? Or do you think an adult pleco would be stable? Any info on this would be cool


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

most of the mbuna you would find in petstores would be ok for cycling, they are all pretty damn tuff. i really dont know everything about them all, but go pic out a couple that you like and get back with us, we will let you know if they can survive a cycle, the reason alot of people choose fishless cycling is because its EXTREMELY hard on the fish. many might not make it. but cichlids are tuff. you sound like me, just wanna see fish in the tank, to heck with the consequences. learn from my mistakes, take your time and do it right.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Haha well so far ive put a black skirt tetra and a black neon in the tank from my other tank. Neither seem to be gasping for air nor lying on the floor...they just seem a little fascinated with their own reflection ^^ I read that tetras were pretty adaptive to a range of conditions including temperature, hardness and pH.

I have an adult male Melanochromis Johanni (malawi cichlid), do you think he would be tough enough as well? Someone else recommended I use him during the cycle because he is the closest to what I'll be stocking the tank with, what do you think?


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Ok ive just tested both my tanks. Neither show signs of ammonia nor nitrite which is good. The pH for my community tank is roughly neutral (around 7-7.4) and my new malawi setup is gaining in pH (yesterday it was just 7.4, today its around 7.7) which is good coz im aiming for a pH of 8.0 for this tank.

Just wondering why my new tank has no signs of ammonia though, there are two tetras in it which will be producing ammonia but the tank is so large that I guess the ammonia disipates finely over the whole volume...will I see an increase in ammonia levels in a day or two? If by next week there is still no ammonia/nitrite then im assuming its ok to add the fish?


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

you should definatly get reading on ammonia before it goes back down to zero. the fish might not be producing enough to make a difference in the tank, are you adding something to change the ph? and the johanni should be ok for the cycle, as long as you dont over load the tank so you get a huge amount of ammonia. how long did you have your tank set up before you added the fish? and was everything in the tank brand new? or was some of it used? if you used sand or rocks from other tanks it could already have bacteria on it. which would be helping the cycle and could explain why your not showing any ammonia.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

The tank is brand new, as is the gravel and rocks. Its coral sand and tufa rock which Im told makes the pH more alkaline. I did however swap a filter pad with my established tank but thats all. I had the tank setup for about 30 hours before I added any fish.

The fish have now been in for about 20 hours and seem fine, no casualties ^^


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## IloveCichlids (Jul 11, 2005)

THe two tetras are not enough of a load to get ammonia readings in a short amount of time. I would put you african in there and/or go to your lfs and go to the assorted cichlid tank. usssually cheap mbuna and most of the time are not pure bred so ( I hate to say this) they are disspensable (un- pure breds are not widely accepted in the African breeder and keeper realms)


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

k hes in along with a large pleco - those two should get the ammonia pumpin hehehe


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

those fish should definatly get you a reading soon, be careful swapping fish around between tanks, if your other tank's ph is 7.0 and this one is getting close to 8.0 its gonna be hell on the tetra and anything else if you try to swap them back, even though 1 number on the little chart doesnt seem like much, its really a huge difference. put fish you intend to keep in there, not ones that you want to cycle with and then put back in their original tank.


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## Chumpp_308 (Feb 19, 2005)

i would like to say i disagree about the mbuna digging, i have had 8 electirc yellows in a 45g for 3 months and they havent been digging hardly at all ther about 1 inch long. ill let you in on a bit of a tip for cycling new tanks, this has worked great for me and i have never once had a problem, what i do is i take my new pump and put it on an already existing tank, basically when your tank is cycled you have nitirifying(? i think thats the word) bacteria established in your filter media. since your other tank already has that established, i put my new pump on my old tank for two weeks, i then take enough water from my existing tank or tanks and add as much as i can without taking too much out of my existing tanks. if the new tank isnt filled i top it off with fresh water, top off the rest of my tanks. and there you have it, a cycled tank ready to go. patience is required. people may have arguemnts about this but i have succesfully cycled about 6 or 7 tanks this way without any fish dying or having any side effects what so ever.

i did notice that you already added fish and everyhting so this might be abit to late, but for next time.

hope this helped


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Thanks 

Ive added some of the rocks from my established tank as well as one of the thicker filter pads to boost the nitrifying bacteria numbers in my new tank, I'll take an ammonia and nitrite reading right now since thats been a good 10 hours since I added the rocks and the fish. The pleco hasnt hesistated in dumping his fair share of ammonia :roll:

EDIT: Ammonia & Nitrite still both read 0. I'll check again tomorrow, hopefully I'll get a reading. If theres still no readings the day after that then I assume the tank is cycled? 

One thing I noticed when I moved my johanni to my new tank was his colour went paler. Im guessing this is due to stress from me catching him and putting him in a new environment with different light levels, no plants and higher pH. He has however gained a fondness for the abundance of rocks and hes feeding like usual. How long will it take for him to display his full colouration again?


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

Chumpp_308 said:


> i would like to say i disagree about the mbuna digging, i have had 8 electirc yellows in a 45g for 3 months and they havent been digging hardly at all ther about 1 inch long. ill let you in on a bit of a tip for cycling new tanks, this has worked great for me and i have never once had a problem, what i do is i take my new pump and put it on an already existing tank, basically when your tank is cycled you have nitirifying(? i think thats the word) bacteria established in your filter media. since your other tank already has that established, i put my new pump on my old tank for two weeks, i then take enough water from my existing tank or tanks and add as much as i can without taking too much out of my existing tanks. if the new tank isnt filled i top it off with fresh water, top off the rest of my tanks. and there you have it, a cycled tank ready to go. patience is required. people may have arguemnts about this but i have succesfully cycled about 6 or 7 tanks this way without any fish dying or having any side effects what so ever.
> 
> i did notice that you already added fish and everyhting so this might be abit to late, but for next time.
> 
> hope this helped


 the water doesnt carry bacteria in it in enough quantaties to make a difference, your just putting dirty water in the tank. the filter is a great idea, and you can also "seed" the tank with sand and rocks from an established tank.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

More rocks  What do you think? All I need now is the background and the fish


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

Do you think jouvenille johannis and auratus will be ok in that tank with my adult johanni or should I definately remove him? Theres plenty of hiding spaces, lots of which only jouvenilles can fit in :-|


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

it may take a week for ammonia to register on the test kits, however you did add quite a bit of media from established tanks so you may never register ammonia during the cycle.


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

with my experience, they usually only fight with similar sized fish, the jouveniles should be just fine with an adult, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS!! thats just MY experiences. if they are too small, some adults may eat them, but if they have a hiding space they should be fine. just keep an eye on them, one thing to look for is a fish hiding up in the dark corners of the tank, that means they are getting harrassed alot.


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## Fraser (Dec 5, 2005)

At the moment hes not displaying his full alpha male colours as he did in the other tank so I guess he'll be more at ease with their arrival. If he shows aggression towards them immediately I'll move him to my other tank.


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## GACichlidProj (Dec 16, 2005)

Fraser said:


> I just got my tank today and I set it up with coral sand and tufa rock. Its a 190 litre (55 Gallon) corner fitting tank.
> 
> I dont think I have enough rocks yet and was wondering if any malawi experts could help *cough* MPro *cough* :lol: I havent put too much sand in as I heard they'll just dig it up anyway and I wouldnt want a rock falling on my precious tank would I  Advice on plants would be cool too - Ive heard malawis like plants but often uproot them anyways?
> 
> ...


Fraser,

I would have painted the back glass of the aquarium, before it was set up.

 It's a good idea to keep Rift lake Cichlids, especially Mbuna species complex Cichlids, in colonies. If you want to add multiple species to your tank, add them at the same size, and in the same numbers. This will help to cut down on the territoriality and violence.

If you would like a copy of my Rift Lake Cichlid price list, please send a request to [email protected]. Microsoft Excel program must be loaded into your computer, for you to be able to open the file.

Michael A. Risko, Jr.
Georgia Cichlid Project
Lawrenceville, GA 30044
770-962-8400
[email protected]


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

GACichlidProj said:


> If you would like a copy of my Rift Lake Cichlid price list, please send a request to [email protected]. Microsoft Excel program must be loaded into your computer, for you to be able to open the file.
> 
> Michael A. Risko, Jr.
> Georgia Cichlid Project
> ...


wow that the second or third post ive seen this on so far, we get it, you got fish. start one thread if you want to advertise, some of us dont want shamless self promotions on every topic in the forum.


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## Lisachromis (Jan 19, 2005)

I agree... and if this continues, I will modify posts if needed. It's nice of you to offer, but please offer it once only.


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