# saltwater filtration



## Quintin117 (Oct 19, 2008)

I have started thinking about a saltwater tank. I have looked up some stuff on the internet, but am still really confused. One thing that confuses me is the filtration. I heard that live sand and rock can help in that area? And then protien skimmers are good for reefs. But I dont get sumps or refugiums. Do you really need one of them? And if you do, which one is better?

And since saltwater tanks are expensive, if I actually got one, I would probubly start out with fish only with a little bit of rock, and slowly add more rock, until I have a good amount. And then later on, when I have the hang of things, coral. 

But hopefully I can actually get one started. I have always wanted on but have never gotten around to it because of confusion, so any other advice would help. Thanks


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## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Far from an expert on this, but I have a 10 gallon that has been running pretty succefully for a few months now...

Lets try to get the basics (and i recommend reading "a simple guide to mini-reef aquariums)... The main chemical filtration is the rock and sand... Most sources recommend 1-2 lbs of Live Rock per gallon of water. I would recommend getting about 1/3 actual live rock and 2/3 just base... the bacterial that breaks down the ammonia will spread (along with the coraline) and this will save you approx $5 per pound (when comparing live to base.)

Skimmers are good... they pull alot of gunk out of the water...

Refugiums are just a place for pods to grow without having to worry about getting eaten (which allows you to maintain a good population for fish like mandirain) and its a place to put macro algae such as cheato which will use up nutrients while they grow which can then be pulled out when you trim them... Its a way of nutrient export...

Sump are a good way to move all your equip to something outside of you"show tank"... They also add addition volume which helps with pollutant levels...

Also watch out about adding live rock... They die off from it (it just happens) can actually cause mini cycle in the tank...

My 10 gallon is doing very well with nothing but a HOB, a power head, and about 25 lbs of rock (10 live and 15 base)... A sump would be nice and a refuge would be helpful... they are not necessary though...

Also forgot to say... Use either RO/DI or distilled water from wally world... the sal has all the minerals you need and you want to purest water you can get to keep chemicals out of your tank...

-me


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## Quintin117 (Oct 19, 2008)

So adding live rock as time goes by is bad? k, and what does HOB stand for? and what if you were planning on a future reef? would you need a sump then?


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## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Adding live rock (base rock would be fine to add) over time (assuming that there are fish and such in the tank) can be bad. when you add the Live rock it will have some die off which will cause an ammonia spike and a small cycle...

also if you want to do some aqua scaping (arches and towers and such) instead of just dumping it in in a pile you should have all of you rock on hand so that you can get your final product up inplace and like you want it... Like i said earlier... It really doesnt take much to "seed" a tank full of base rock... To tell you the truth if you had a good friend or a club in the area you could almost do all base rock and just borrow some rock from them to set in your tank for a few months until yours takes off...

HOB is Hang On/Over Back... It refers to your typical filter that comes with most aquarium kits... (It can also refer to anything that just hangs on the tank... Refugiums and skimmers can also be refered to this way)

Because even though most energy is obtained by photosythesis alot of the reef type organisms will eat planktonic type items I would prolly reccommend atleast a refugium... You do get into a few logistic issues with a sump or a fuge... Like how do you get the water out of you display tank and into the other tank... Most peope drill the display for an overflow... there are some other ways, but know that this is something you need to know from the beginning...

You also need to do research into what you want to keep in the end... this will effect some of your equipment... ESPECIALLY LIGHTING... and you will have to budget for this... high lighting cost money in equipment cost, electricity cost, and the possibility of having to runn a chiller to off set the heat produced... LED lighting will help in the electricity cost and heat, but is really expensive... THough you dont have to replace the bulbs like a metal halide and they have some units that will even do sunrises/sets, clouds, stroms, and so forth...

sounds to me like you should invest some time and energy into reading a little... It sounds very cliche, but it will really help you in the path to doing things the right way the first time... saving you time and heart ache... I kinda head longed into things and have had some set back and glitches...

Take some time and decide a budget, tank size, and pick out some must haves (fish or coral) and that will help you get started and give you a path...

please take this advice (and im gonna tell you some advise i would have never actually taken myself)... GO SLOW!!!!!! If you can do it dont buy a thing but rocks, sand, and water, for 6 months (you can keep any de-nitrifying bactera happy by just feeding fish food occassionally and letting it decompose)... This will give everything (i maily mean all your creepy crawlys) a good chance to get up and running b4 you add fish... it will give you a good head start and make your final product turn out many times better...

-me


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## Quintin117 (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks, That helps a lot. I dont think I have a choice but to go slow any way, I'm still saving up money. So I will read up some more, this time on an actual book, so I know I'm getting good info. I looked at refugiums and they are expensive. Do you know a brand that is trustworthy, so I dont waste money on one in the future? Thanks


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## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Im supposing you were looking at the HOB refugiums as shown below?










those are expensive and it can be done cheaper with just a tank some lighting and a pump...

What size tank are you considering building? and what type of layout are you going to do (on a stand on a built in shelvine unit?)? that would help me out alot... Im working kinda blind...

Im just gonna warn you here... SW is expensive... they need more water movement which means more/bigger filters... The lighting is expensive... The water for it cost (either getting a filtration unit of buying distilled or RO water)... the CUC will add up pretty quickly... Fish arent cheap, corals arent cheap...

My 10 gallon prolly has nearly $500 in it and i could easily spend another $200 b4 im happy with everything...


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## Quintin117 (Oct 19, 2008)

I was thinking my 29 gallon tank, right now it is on a table.


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## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Cool a 29 is a good size (most would not reccomend less than a 30 (29 is close enough) for beginners). I was actually wanting to do a 29 for the longest... I wanted to do a drilled one, but the cost was very prohibitive...

What is your budget?

-me


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## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Double Post


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## Quintin117 (Oct 19, 2008)

Budget? Well right now I don't have much, what I would like is to be able to see what the cheapest way to do this successfully is, and save up money for it.
And is a refugium or sump really worth it? I have heard that you can do it with a protein skimmer and a good filter for filtration, or am I reading bad advice?


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## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

I dont think you reading bad advice... Its just differing opinions and each has a different aspect of care associated with it...

Would i reccomend a Skimmer... Yes... A fuge? If you want alot of coral i would say yes... A sump... Not really... they are nice, but on the list not as important and expensive when you consider drilling a tank having return pumps and so forth...

Money... Well you need to know what you want... A 29 is a deep tank and more than likely a 250 watt metal halide bulb is your best bet... (not cheap)... There are other options, but ligthing is one of the main things that will limit you on types of coral you can keep...

I would reccomend you pick up a Aqua Clear 40 (or 50 or what ever is in that range) and a couple of hydor koralia units... Some where in the range of 1000 GPH total (i have 400 GPH in my 10 gallon and it seems to have a nice flow rate)... That should be fine for filtration... Like i said if you are keeping alot of coral i would reccomend a fuge...

Im not budget minded so im not good at cheaping something together... But expect $500 EASY b4 you even start stocking... If it's less no big deal...

BTW make sure you do all your own research on this... I am far from even a successfull reefer (my one little coral is all drawn up right now and i dont know why)... Wish someone else woudl come in here and dismiss or reinforce my comments just so you had a second opinion...

-me


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