# just a few general questions



## Chumpp_308 (Feb 19, 2005)

alright so i picked up a cryptocoryne x willisii a cryptocoryne wendtii 'tropica' and an anubias barteri var. nana yesterday, what ive read about them says they need nutrients from the roots as well as leaves. also the guy at the store said they will need CO2 injection. one thing is, ive heard of people growing these plants fine without anything other than a few fish in the tank. whats the scoop. and is there anything i should know about those particular plants. 

10g
6 guppies
standard lighting

thanks in advance


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The guy from the fishstore is wrong on both occasions. Plants will take nutrients from the water column first, then from their roots if none is available. They also don't need CO2 injection. I am curious as to where you live as that crypt v. "tropica" variety of plant is illegal in the U.S. They will all do well without CO2 and ferts. They all do need to be attached to wood or rockwork for best results but can be planted (roots but not rhizome) into the substrate. High lighting tends to lead to green spot algae on the leaves. Constant moving or replanting will lead to "crypt rot".


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## Chumpp_308 (Feb 19, 2005)

i live in canada, and thanks for the info


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

Simpte's absolutely right, those plants will do just fine without C02 and fertilizers. But parts of his post are a bit confusing. The bit about attaching them to rocks or wood for best results applies to the anubias, but not the cyptocornes. The crypts should definitely be planted in the substrate. And "constant moving or replanting will lead to crypt rot" applies to the crypts, not to the anubias (if the anubias are attached to rocks or wood, moving them around won't disturb the plants at all!)


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

I do not agree with the above opinons. Crypts are heavy root feeders and should be given ferts in the substrate (about every 3 months should work fine). Also they will not do well planted on rocks or wood. The anubias on the other hand is mainly a leaf feeder and does not need substrate, its roots are mainly for gtipping. It can be planted in substrate but, as noted, do not bury the rhizome. None of them need Co2 to thrive and all are low light plants.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I knew you would chime in on this one sooner or later, Mr. Doyle. But I still think you are wrong. Crypts and even swords are not heavy root feeders. 99% of all aquatic plants are not heavy root feeders. They do store more nutrients than most plants and will deplete a water column fairly fast. Once I get the pics from a friend, I will so you some beautiful crypts and swords grown in nothing but silica sand and ferts come strictly from the water column.


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## Fishboy93 (Jun 11, 2005)

I keep red wenditii and balanese with low light and no ferts and they thrive. They have sent out runners recently and now have two little balanese


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## Chumpp_308 (Feb 19, 2005)

i think im just gonna let em go with no ferts and see what happens, if thay start to yellow at all then ill start adding. 

on a side note, its kinda funny about a year ago i got a few plants and had em in my 45, they ended up getting real yellow and then brown, i posted it on here and no mentioned anything about light or ferts, which i now know was the problem as i recognized them to be high light level plants later on in my readings.


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

Simpte- I have a small bare bottom discus tank with two clay pots for plants. They hold crypts, hygro poly and rotala mac. I do not add any water fert, only gravel ferts and Excel. They are still thriving now after 1+ years. In fact the crypts are some of the largest I have. If they were mainly leaf feeders how is this possible?

Incidentally- the lighting is a mere 1.2 wpg (2x15w Triton bulbs), normally too low for rotala mac, yet this stuff grows so fast I have to prune it every other week.


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## Chumpp_308 (Feb 19, 2005)

maybe the ferts in the gravel leach into the water? i really have no idea, jsut a guess.


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

I think that what Simpte is saying is that it's easier for plants to get nutrients from leaves than from roots, so if you had one tank with optimal ferts in the water but none in the substrate, and one tank with optimal ferts in the substrate but none in the water, then the former would grow faster than the latter, since the plant doesn't have to expend energy getting the nutrients from the roots to the leaves.

To be honest, Simpte is probably right about this, since he spent alot of time studying the growing of aquatic plants. But that hasn't convinced me to add any ferts to the water. Nor do I add substrate ferts. My crypts grow in whatever I put them in. They do quite nicely in my standard soil + gravel substrate, and they did OK in my pots of Flourite when I was doing that. Simplicity is my aim in aquatic gardening, and adding water and substrate ferts is more complicated than doing nothing at all. Since my plants grow well enough doing nothing at all, I will leave it at that.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Crypts will grow without ferts, whether they are in the water or in the substrate. It is much easier for plants to absorb them from the water (which is why terrestrial plants have thicker membranes than aquatic ones). WHy spend the energy moving nutrients (in which mg is not a mobile nutrient) throughout the plant when you can just absorb it where you need it?


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

Well all I can say is go with whatever works for you 

I'm sorry I am not as experienced as Simpte- I have only been doing this for a scant 5 years and I only have 14 planted tanks.


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## Chumpp_308 (Feb 19, 2005)

only 14, wow, i thought you sould have at least 20 by now, lol just kidding, if you can keep 14 planted tanks looking good then i think your well up there on the ladder of experienced hobbyists.


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Ouch. Nothing like a touch of sarcasm to make your point.


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

David, I didn't mean to insult you or belittle your experience. I was just trying to a point that what works best in theory may not be all that relevant to what people do in their tanks. I mean, it's clear that you get the fastest plant growth with a high tech tank with expensive substrates, CO2 injection, lots of ferts (water or substrate), and massive amounts of light. But I have no interest in all that stuff, so I'm not doing any of it.

Ferts in the water may be theoretically better than ferts in the substrate, but it comes at a cost. First, you have to add the water ferts quite often, while the substrate ferts last a long time. And second, Simpte has spent more time that I'd like to think about reading up on this stuff to learn just the right dosages.

Your method works beautifully. Simpte's method might work a bit better, but if your plants are already doing wonderfully, does that matter?


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