# goldfish hitting sides of tank



## cmock

We "inherited" a goldfish and a plectomus in a 20 gallon tank. We've had them about 2 months. We just completely changed the water and cleaned the rocks. We discovered the filter system was shot. Just put fish back into tank,with water that was treated with a conditioner that said it works immediately and was safe to put fish right back into. Fish were fine for about half an hour and then the goldfish started swimming quickly and hitting the sides of tank and going to the top of the water. He seems to be breathing strangely, too. What did we do wrong and have we lost the fish?


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## cheseboy

I woulden't blame the conditioner right away. Make sure all of your water parameters are good. If you are unsure post your water properties post them here and we can help you. What do you mean by "We discovered the filter system was shot" ?


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## garfieldnfish

Sounds like you may have destroyed the beneficial bacteria by cleaning too much. But that would not affect the fish within 30 minutes but will affect them in about 2 to 3 days when the water starts to go through a new cycling phase to replace the lost bacteria. You should watch you water values for an ammonia spike.
That your goldfish started to act strange so quickly makes me think maybe the water had a considerably different temperature then what you had in it before. Is that possible? Or the ph may be different from what he was used to. The change in temps with a goldfish may not be too bad and he will adjust but a much different ph could kill him. How is he doing today?


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## cmock

He seems to be doing fine today. I know now not to do a complete water change! 
I do have another question, tho. Is there ever too much air bubbles in the tank? We added an air wand and now there is that, which goes across length of tank, and the filter bubbles. Don't want to have too much of a good thing! We did add an oranda today. It's a lot smaller. We'll see tomorrow if it does okay. Big fish tried to eat it at first, but after a couple of nibbles, stopped doing that. Hasn't done it since. I think it thought it was food. We are feeding them the Tetra GF flakes. PetSmart sold us some frozen brine and said to give them that once a week. What's your thought on food? Sorry for so many questions. It's been about 20 years since we had a fish tank. Starting over......
Thanks!


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## garfieldnfish

Now you have too many fish in this 20 gal. 2 goldfish and a pleco need about 40 gal of water if the pleco is a common one. You would have been ok with just one goldfish, the pleco and large weekly water changes. Now you have to monitor you water quality very closely. All three of those fish produce a lot of waste and you removed many of the biobugs during your clean up. Buying another goldfish was not a good idea at this time.
I feed my goldfish a variety of food. They are omnivores and eat basically anything you can find that is labled fish food and then some. I feed mine blanched zucchini or cucumbers twice a week. An orange slice or other fruit once a week. Shelled peas once a week, meaty food (frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms, mysis shrimp, Grindal worms etc. about every 3rd day. Other then that they get goldfish flakes, sinking pellets and crumbles. You pleco also needs some algae wafers. Shrimp pellets are a great food for both of them. I have 11 fish tanks with many different species so I have a cabinet full of fishfood. My husband always says they have more food then we do in the fridge and it's close. But variety is key to a healthy fish. 
The bubbles will not hurt them. Some of those airholes in the hose will also close up over time and the bubbles will become less, but it will not hurt goldfish. Mine swim right through the bubbles.


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## cmock

Oh, Oh! The "fish expert" at the pet store said I could add 2-3 more goldfish!!! We just went for one. Both fish are rubbing theirselves on the bottom occasionally. I haven't been able to get to the store yet to get a test kit (I live 20 minutes from anywhere). I am going tomorrow, though. What can I do to get the bacteria right again? We bought supposedly a super-duper filter that goes up to a 50 gallon tank and now the water is cloudy. Was really clear before we installed that. We rinsed all of the charcoal and bio well. 

We did feed them frozen brine shrimp last night. They loved it. Right before that, the little oranda started doing the same thing the big fish did originally. They both seem fine now other than the occasional rubbing on the bottom. I called the pet store, but I don't think they know too much more than I do!!

Well, any help you can give me I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks!


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## Lexus

In most cases never trust a pet store employee, most know little to nothing or have been taught wrong. Its not your fault you didnt know

2 goldfish and a pleco is WAY overstocked for a 20G. Common plecos get to around 2 feet and in my opinion should only be kept in very large tanks or ponds. 

The rule of thumb is 20 gallons for the first GF then 10 each additional. You can get away with 2 gf in a 20G until they grow larger but be prepared to do many water changes and closely monitor the water as mentioned above. Personally I never ever add new fish when there is a pre-existing problem in the tank. 

As far as the scratching goes it could be any of these Ick, Chilodonella, Costia, Fish Leech, Skin Flukes, Velvet Disease . Does the fish have white spots or worm like things on it? Also if you just inherited it the difference in PH may have triggered it but if the new fish is doing it, then I dont know what to tell you. 

I would also be concerned as your tank will go through its cycle again since the tank was cleaned out completely.

I would have picked up a test kit when I bought the second fish. Be sure to do that soon so we can rule out certain things.


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## ron v

I would take the GF you just bought, back. You can tell the fish shop how irresponsible, we on this forum, think selling you that fish was.


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## garfieldnfish

The scratching could be any of the causes Lexus listed. It could also be because goldfish just seem to do this sometimes. I have had mine for 2 years and they occasionally do it too. They have no ick and since I have never treated them for anything else, I would imagine if they had something more serious they would have either died by now or would be showing other syndroms as well. I believe mine just like doing it.


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## cmock

Okay, just got back and did a water test. Things don't look good. Now large GF is rubbing on bottom and sides, and "flashing". Small oranda is also nibbling on GF! We've been gone all day to my G'ma's funeral, so I don't know how long this has been going on.
We're going to do the water test now. I'll report the results when we finish.


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## garfieldnfish

Do you have the results yet?


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## cmock

I'm sorry....forgot to post!!
Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrate - .50
ph 8.0

We're going a 20% change of water and adding aquatic salts. Also, pillows that soak up ammonia.


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## ron v

Ammonia- 4.0. I'm supprised anything is still allive. Nitrate - .5. Do you mean nitrIte? Your tank is not cycled. Your fish are likely damaged beyond repair. Not good news, but I would suggest putting your fish out of misery and researching " fishless" cycling. Sorry. If you want to try to save your fish, do an immediate water change. You MUST get the ammonia down to .25 or less.


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## cmock

ammonia is down to 1.0, nitrites still at .5. How often can I do a partial water change and how much should I do? We did 20% last night. Can I do another this morning?


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## cmock

just did a 20% water change. Large GF is looking much better. Fin isn't clamped any more and the color is back in his tail. His tail is a large fan of white , red and orange. More orange now than white. He's swimming fine and eating good. Oranda never did look bad, or pleco either. They are both still doing fine. I'm going to test the water in a couple of hours. Can I do it sooner or should I wait longer? Should I keep doing 20% changes every 12 hours until ammonia and nitrites are good?
Thanks for all of your help. We had a 55 tank about 20 years ago and nobody ever said anything about cycling the tank, not even the fish store! Explains a lot!!! We got rid of the tank after 4 years because we just couldn't keep all of the fish alive. I don't do death well and so we sold it. Hopefully, we can get this thing figured out and be able to enjoy these fish!


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## ron v

Do a "search" on this site for cycling. Lots of info. You can safely do 50% water changes. Just treat it and keep it as close in temp. as possible. Good luck.


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## cmock

ammonia is down to 1.0, but nitrites are still .5. I'll do another water change this evening. I've been using distilled water, is this what I should be doing?
Ron, I did do a search and there is a lot of good info, but I can't find exactly what I'm trying to do. Does anyone have any thoughts about my changing water every 12 hours until ammonia and nitrites are correct? Is this screwing things up even more?


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## ron v

No don't use distilled water. Tap water is fine, just make sure you treat it to remove chlorine. Don't worry about cycling right now. That's a process that takes 3-4 weeks. Just keep changing water until the ammonia gets down to .25 or less.


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## cmock

Ron, if I use tap water, the AquaSafe says it's safe to use water immediately. Is this correct? Our tap water is extremely high on the ph test.
I would love to just use tap water as distilled does get expensive! I do know that they need the minerals in tap water I was just worried about the high ph when I'm trying to get things good with the nitrite and ammonia.
Thank you so much for taking your time with me!! :grin:


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## garfieldnfish

You can start to use some tab water along with the bottled water but integrate the (treated) tab water slowly adding a higher percentage with each water change. The difference in ph between the bottled water and your tab could otherwise kill the fish. If you have a lot of extra cash laying around and a decent LFS in your neighborhood, see if you can get some bio spira. Instantly cycles your tank when you dump the bag of biobugs in your tank. I would recommend it since this tank is overstocked and you already have a big problem with high ammonia. For a 20 gal it should not be too expensive. Most likely a lot cheaper then buying bottled water every other day. Your LFS will most likely have to special order it. Ususally they do not keep it at hand because it has a very short shelf life but you can also order it on the net, if you do a search for the product. It may save your fish and you a lot of head- and heartache.


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## cmock

Thank you all. LFS, a different one from PetSmart, whose been in the fish business since the early 60's, has me doind Shieldex every other day for a week and also Stress Zyme every other day for a week. We'll see what this does. He said when my tank gets cycled, he'll buy the fish so I can get smaller ones that will fit my tank.


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