# Ponds, frogs and fish



## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Glad to see ponds added to the goldfish section. I like it.

anywhoo, 


















I asked this on another forum:


> I've noticed a sharp decline of frogs in my grandmas pond and its "tributaries". I was wondering If it would be a good idea to maybe take 15 tadpoles this spring, and raise them to adulthood, then release them. I don't want to introduce a disease the wild frogs arent use to and can't defend against it, ending up destroying the entire frog population. would I be able to tell if the frogs in captivity had a diesease, or is it just too risky of a gamble? I'm not even sure if it is a natural pond or not.


I got very good advice, and decided not to since the frogs I'd be reintroducing are a species that likes to migrate and could spread a disease.



> The pond is kinda in a remote location, there isn't any fertilizer runoff, its at the top of a mountain. there also arent any fish in the pond, I thought just the tadpoles were getting eaten by the surge of dragon fly larvae, but if i coule raise a few to adulthood they could eat the larvae. but i guess youre right, there is a decline for a reason. maybe this is just an off year for them.
> 
> their habibat has remained pretty much the same for as long as i can remember and then some.
> 
> I couldnt positively identify them from memory, I would use the croaking identification but the sound on my computer isnt working, many of the species here have similar patterns. But i think they are Columbian Spotted Frogs, Rana luteiventris, some kind of "true frog", rana's.


I've also seen them in the creek, 









Its been quite a while and I havent seen any frogs there yet. they should have spawned quite a while ago. I was just up there again and found frogs were out in other ponds near that one, columbian spotted frogs like to migrate so maybe they could have mass migrated. I dont want to take frogs from a diffrent nearby pond and put them there, they left for a reason. or died off for a reason.

I was going to add some water lilies, and if frogs dont show up, fish. Could any fish live in a completely frozen over pond? I know koi can, but there isnt any water agitation, and there woulndt be very much oxygen in the water. oh by the way, its a man made pond, my grandpa dug it out quite a long time ago. can any fish live in cold, oxygenless water for months on end?

oh, and the pond is up here








so any water is very cold no matter how warm it gets, the pond is connected to the creek, and the creek comes from the melting snow at the top. one of these days I'm gonna put on some rubber pants and hike up the creek until I find the lake at the top.

oh, and they may get eaten by a bear or mt lion too. that'd be alright since there is an epidemic in the white fur trees (or something like that) that provide the bears with seeds high in potein when they get ready to hibernate, and if they are sparce the bears need a second source of protein.


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## cameraman_2 (Mar 28, 2005)

from what I know it depends on how deep the pond is to know whether the fish can servive. In really cold places they dig pods at least 6 ft. deep so the fish can make it and the pond won't completely freeze. You said the creek is connected to it, it could have brought in some sand and dirt and have filled it in a little to much. You might have to redig it. That is just my opinion.


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## ALFA WOLF (May 24, 2005)

i would not take the gamble its the same thing with fish they get em from the delaer and sell them and u still shoudl not reles them even if u know were the delers gets them from cause their might be desises and infections and stuff liek that tha tcan spread and take hold of the population.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Crucian carp, Carassiuis carrassius, can go for a few months without ever breathing once. They're kinda like ugly uncultured goldfish. Freezeovers don't bother them at all.


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## ALFA WOLF (May 24, 2005)

really? maybe ill find abeutifull rainbow colored carp that i can have on my own. Then ill wake up to a frozen lake.


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

> Crucian carp, Carassiuis carrassius, can go for a few months without ever breathing once. They're kinda like ugly uncultured goldfish. Freezeovers don't bother them at all.


arent those in europe, or asia or something? I dont want to introduce them to somewhere they can get into the creek and travel somewhere with hybrid vigor competing with native carps. otherwise they'd be perfect then. oh wait, I dont think any carp are native to montana or are native to the US? how about common carp? do they mind freeze overs?

any frog experts out there?





































do those look like columbian spotted frogs? Rana luteiventris.

they reappeared in the pond, no need for me to raise any. I guess they were either just burrowed or migrated over from the main pond.


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