# New tank couple of concerns



## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

I just started a new tank. Here is a little background on what I did to get started. I have s 29 gallon tank. I have a biowheel 200 filter. I have a heater but I am not using it because the water temperature seems to stay around 75 to 78 degrees without the heater. When I first set the tank up I treated the water with Kent Eco-Start and Kent First Step for 4 days and let the filter run in the tank for 5 days before going out and getting any fish. I have not done any testing of the water for PH levels or anything else like that. From things I have read and from talking to the pet store employees I was given several different suggestions on types of fish to get as good starter fish and how many to start with. We ended up picking out 4 fish to start our aquarium. We picked out a Black Molly, Black Skirt Tetra, Rosy Tetra, and Mickey Mouse Platy.

We added these 4 fish to our aquarium last night. When we first added them the Black Molly was real active and seemed the most excited to eat when we fed them. The Mickey Mouse Platy showed no interest in eating. Well now it has been about 24 hours since we got our fish and we have noticed that the Platy still shows no interest in eating and we also noticed that he has one good fin on one side and on the other side he doesnt seem to really have a fin, just a little nub. We also just notice that the side of his body with the bad fin has kind of a white looking scrape on the side of his face and white on the nub where the fin is supposed to be. He will swim some but hangs out at the bottom of the tank a lot and I worry because he doesn't seem to want to eat. The Black Molly which use to seem fine and ate right away showed no interest in eating this evening and he just sits behind a plastic plant for hours on end with no desire to move. My wife also noticed that his fop fin which used to be straight up now kinda hangs over. The 2 tetras seem to be doing just fine and they swim all around together and appear very happy.

My questions are:
Is there anything I should have done differently or have missed doing based on my description of my tank set up and the fish I purchaed to start my tank?

My wife read that Platy's can regrow their fin if it is missing. Is this true? And will it only having 1 good fin on 1 side cause a problem long term or be a factor with his ability to want to move around and eat? Any ideas on how to help him want to eat? As far as the white looking scrape and white on his fin any ideas what that might be? A fungus maybe? A healing body from getting scraped?

Any ideas as to why the Black Mollly which ate so well last night now just sits in one spot behind a plant at the bottom of the tank and has no desire to eat?


Im brand new at this so any feedback would be great.

Thanks
---Mike


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2006)

hi your first mistake was conversation with fish store employees and not doing hours of research on sites such as this and aquabid.com you can really gain bunches info just looking at the auction pages.
a close examination of the fish before purchase will be a lesson learned.
is it possible the Platy doesn't like the food offered? 
have they been offered to much food?(overfeeding)
how do you propose to isolate the sick fish?
the moral of the story: fish ain't easy!!


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Please purchase a test kit for ammonia and nitrite. Post the results here.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2006)

last month I lost a whole tank of Kuhli Loaches. about 18 of the rascals.
several Amazon swords and Java Moss just like the book says. plenty filtration.
pool sand substrate.
all was well for several months.
my mistake?? I added Malaysian Trumpet Snails and I believe the population explosion was more than the tank could handle. despite water changes, within a week the tank was a stinkin mess. Stunk the whole house up when I finally broke it down.
so much for Mr Research . . . . .


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

douglas said:


> hi your first mistake was conversation with fish store employees and not doing hours of research on sites such as this and aquabid.com you can really gain bunches info just looking at the auction pages.
> a close examination of the fish before purchase will be a lesson learned.
> is it possible the Platy doesn't like the food offered?
> have they been offered to much food?(overfeeding)
> ...



Well I new from the beginning that it wouldn't be easy to take care of fish especially the first 2 weeks with a new tank while the water levels stabalize. I felt I did quite a bit of reading and have learned a lot before jumping in and getting started. Its not like I just up and bought a bunch of fish and threw them in a new tank. We went to 2 different pet stores that sold fish it was quickly obvious that a couple of employees really knew their stuff and one guy in particular had several of his own tanks at home. He was the one that suggested to start with Tetras. There were a couple of other employees that I can tell were pretty clueless but tried to sound like they knew what they were talking about. 

It is the next morning now and the Platy is now lying on his back at the bottom of the tank but he his still alive. My 9 year old daughter who picked out that fish is crying because of it and doesn't want me to take it out unless he dies. Although I think the best thing at this point is to just take it out. I am not sure if the fish got injured when the pet store employeee transferred it because she was quite rough with them when she scooped them into a bag or if it was already injured. The Tetras still seem to be doing great and I am still worried about the Molly.

I will get a test kit today and report back the water levels.

----Mike


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Get a liquid test kit. IMO it is better than the paper strips.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Mollies are a bit touchy in regard to moving from tank to tank, and they can often do fine the first day and then hit a slump once the shock finally catches up to them. If the temperature in your tank is much lower than that of the tank they were in at the shop, then that would certainly explain it.

The platy is infected, of course, either from being injured in the capture or having been bitten by one of the other fish. Ordinarily it shouldn't be too big a problem since platies are tough, but in a new tank all fish have a harder time of things.

Is it possible that there is some overfeeding happening? Kids are very prone to feeding the fish when no one is looking, and so are spouses who don't yet know better. 

Finally, mollies & platies like their water a certain way, while tetras like their water a completely different way. It's certainly possible that the water in your tank is more like the water in the tank the tetras were in at the store, resulting in them not having any transfer shock, *OR* the water in your tank may simply be more suited to tetras instead of to mollies & platies. The only way to tell if that's the case is to test your pH & hardness, or at least your pH. If your tank is newly set up with tapwater, and if your petshop is nearby, then they can probably tell you what your water qualities should be like out of the faucet since it'll be like theirs.
At any rate, it often works out better to figure out what kind of water you have, and choose fish which like your kind of water.
That said, you most likely have water best suited to mollies & platies, which most people do if they have city water, with the opposite being true if they have well water.


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

If you bought your fish from a local pet store, they are probably somewhat conditioned to your pH. The key there is stability. Most fish will adjust to different ranges of pH. It is the rapid and extreme fluctuations that will get them.

What type of decorations do you have? Are there any sharp edges or places that may be a tight fit for any of your fish?

Also, most of the fish you started with are schoolers and like to be with their own kind and do better in groups. They do this for protection. A lone schooling fish sometimes tends to hide more if they are by themselves. We know there are no predators after them, but they don't.

I am not familiar with your water conditioners. Do they remove chloramines and break down heavy metals?


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

What level PH is good for Mollies and what PH level is good for Tetras? And if they both need different PH levels are they even compatible in the same tank? I will be getting a test kit today and I will post back the results later. I am not sure if my natural water conditions include the removal of chloramines and break down of heavy metals. 

---Mike


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

Ok I posted my test results in a new thread any feedback would be appreciated.

---Mike


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

tank should have been cycled BEFORE adding any fish


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

*I cycled the tank*



Georgia Peach said:


> tank should have been cycled BEFORE adding any fish



I cycled the tank for 5 days before adding fish.

---Mike


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

How did you cycle in so short a time frame? Did you use Bio-spira?


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

ron v said:


> How did you cycle in so short a time frame? Did you use Bio-spira?



I guess I am misunderstanding what is meant by cycling. I thought cycling a tank was another term used for running a filter for a few days and letting all the water cycle through the filter. I guess I am wrong. Could you let me know what is meant by the term "cycling a tank"? 

Most of the info I read said a tank should be set up with a filter running for at least 3 days or even as long as a week or more before adding fish. I figured 5 days was long enough. My biowheel fiter says it filters 200 gallons per hour. 

No I did not use bio-spira. From what I read bio-spira can be used if you want to add a full load of fish immediately. I just added 4 fish to start a 29 gallon tank with the intention of adding more after about 3 weeks. 

Should I go ahead and add bio-spira? Also how does my water look based on my test results. To me it looks good with ammonia at only .25 I am sure that will raise once the fish have been in there longer. By the way I think the reason the Molly was acting sluggish was because of too low of water temp. It was at around 72. I turned the heater on and the Molly hung out by the heater. Now the water is at 78 and it seems happier. He also ate some freeze dried blood worms. 

---Mike


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

there is a sticky in the beginner section called the nitrogen cycle, read it, it will help you understand what everyone means by cycle the tank. your tank will go through alot of changes before its really stable and it will take about a month, in this time the water is very harmful to fish, so please read that post.


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

Ok, I already knew that the tank is going to go through the cycle. Everything that I read however talked about addding 3 or 4 fish right away and then doing water changes to keep the ammonia levels down. This is the first I had heard of doing a fishless cycle. Well, the fish are in and they all seem to be doing well. 3 Tetras are following each other all over the tank and 2 Mollies are hanging out together but less active. I will be monitoring the ammonia , nitrite and nitrate levels daily and doing water changes about 25% at a time. Thanks for all the help thus far.

---Mike


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Its not that cycling with fish doesn't work, its just that you must consider those fish, "expendable" and a lot of members here do not like to do that if at all possible.


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

*water changes*



Fishfirst said:


> Its not that cycling with fish doesn't work, its just that you must consider those fish, "expendable" and a lot of members here do not like to do that if at all possible.


Yes I understand. My family (wife and 3 kids) are animal lovers fish is the latest addition to a dog and 2 rats. We definitely don't consider our fish "expendable". We have already spent hours just watching our new fish and have quickly grown attached to each one as we notice that each has its own personality. I guess in the articles I read I didn't see anything about cycling a tank without fish. Looks like I should have looked a little harder. Well, I will definitley be on top of the ammonia levels and do the water changes in an effort to keep things stable.

---Mike


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

alot of people still cycle the old way, with fish, i do it too. but i havent cycled a tank in a long time, but if you really watch your levels, you wont loose fish, its not that big of a deal. when your ammonia peaks and starts to go down, add some aquarium salt, that will help the fish deal with the nitrites and nitrates.


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

*doing water changes*



leveldrummer said:


> alot of people still cycle the old way, with fish, i do it too. but i havent cycled a tank in a long time, but if you really watch your levels, you wont loose fish, its not that big of a deal. when your ammonia peaks and starts to go down, add some aquarium salt, that will help the fish deal with the nitrites and nitrates.



Ok, thanks. I have been doing daily water changes of about 25 to 30% of the water. So far fish seem very happy and active. I think I have myself a new hobby.

---Mike


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

and its a very fullfilling hobby as you learn and get into new and more entertaining things, but watch out for burn out. lots of people get so happy keeping fish, they end up doing nothing all weekend but water changes on too many tanks, and never sit back and just watch the fish, its the simple things in life... you know?


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

A quick question. I am told that my ammonia levels will eventually peak followed by an increase in nitrites and nitrates. If I am doing daily water changes in an effort to never let the ammonia levels go above .5 how am I going to see it peak? Won't it just continue to stay at .5 or lower?

---Mike


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

At some point it will become more and more difficult to keep it at .5...... More and more water changes. The clue that things are progressing is when nitrites start showing.


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## dwool36 (Jan 31, 2006)

You won't see the ammonia or nitrites peak if you continue the water changes. You are mainly looking for the PRESENCE of nitrites. You will know you are done when the nitrites first show and then are gone. It will seem like it is taking froever, but keep doing what you are doing.


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

if the ammonia doesnt get above .5, it will eventually drop back to zero, the peak isnt important, its just a way people keep track of it, but like people said, you should see nitrites as the ammonia peaks, so there is your sign


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

Every night when I check the ammonia levels I get a .5 reading. So I am continuing to do daily water changes of about 25 to 30% of the water. Seems to be keeping it from going above .5 Any ideas as to how many days this will go on for before I can finally stop doing the daily water changes?

---Mike


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## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

does your water have chloramines? after i do a water change i get a reading of .25 ammonia because i have chloramines in my tap. my water conditioner sepparates the chlorine and ammonia from the chloramines.


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## dwool36 (Jan 31, 2006)

It took me close to three weeks.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

I appreciate that you're new at this, however.
First of all, you didn't test your pH when you could of done as you obviously know what it is due to mentioning it in your first post. So how can you possibly know what fish are suitible for your water without knowing your water alkalinity levels? 
Anyway, no matter what you pH is, the fish you have require completely different water parameters dispite being known as community fish.
Also even if your water was fine, and suitable for your tetras at least as they seem to be the healthier ones, they should be kept in shoals and never as individuals. They don't live as individuals in the wild, so why should they be expected to in the aquarium? I reapeat, I appreciate that you're new at this, but I'm disgusted that they sold you that asortment of fish without question.

Finally and most importantly, pH is no where as important compared to nitrite and ammonia levels. If these build up due to overfeeding, and/or the filter bacteria not being able to cope with the watse given out by your fish and decomposing food, your fish will almost certainly die. 

It's not fair on the fish, it's not fair on the kids, and it's a waste of money.

You're an adult, and should know that before going out and buying all those fish, a bit of research should of been carried out. You obviously have the internet so could easily be done.
Let's hope when you next visit this site, you have taken the time to gain knowledge, and what's required to run a basic community system.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

TheOldSalt said:


> That said, you most likely have water best suited to mollies & platies, which most people do if they have city water, with the opposite being true if they have well water.


Lots of people have their well water pass through layers of limestone. Resulting in hard water, being more suitable for livebearers.


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## logans (Apr 1, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> I appreciate that you're new at this, however.
> First of all, you didn't test your pH when you could of done as you obviously know what it is due to mentioning it in your first post. So how can you possibly know what fish are suitible for your water without knowing your water alkalinity levels?
> Anyway, no matter what you pH is, the fish you have require completely different water parameters dispite being known as community fish.
> Also even if your water was fine, and suitable for your tetras at least as they seem to be the healthier ones, they should be kept in shoals and never as individuals. They don't live as individuals in the wild, so why should they be expected to in the aquarium? I reapeat, I appreciate that you're new at this, but I'm disgusted that they sold you that asortment of fish without question.
> ...



I actually did quite a bit of reading on the internet and checked out a few books from the library.. Its not like I went out and filled a tank with water from the garden hose and then dumped a bunch of fish in the tank. That being said, I still was not sure which fish would be good to mix together. That was where I asked the petstore owner (who has several fish tanks of his own) what he would recommend. I was told Tetras are great starter fish because they are heartier fish. My 7 year old really liked the Black Molly so I asked if that fish would be ok to get with the Tetras and I was told yes it would be fine. Not sure what you mean by Tetras being kept as shoals and not as individual. I have 3 Tetras that all hang out together ans swim together. Are you saying I should have more? I guess I am not sure why you are telling me they should not live alone in the aquarium when I have 3? I do have plans to get more but I did not want to load the tank up with too many fish while it is getting established. I do understand that the Ammonia levels are the most important to monitor that is why I check the ammonia levels every day and I have been changing 25 to 30% of the water daily. Thank you for the lecture on how my fish will most certainly die if I overfeed them. I will make sure I don't dump the whole container of fish food in the tank at once. 

As for your recommndation on not to visit the site again until I have done my research... 
Oops sorry, I visited this site again and I have yet to go research and write my doctoral thesis on how to run a basic community system. By the way its the people who are not posting on here seeking help and advice and who are simply filling a tank with water and dumping a bunch of fish in that you need to go seek out and lecture. This is the "beginners" thread isn't it? 

Thanks everyone else for you help and support. And thanks to the one who actually took the time to answer my question on how long the water changing process will take instead of getting on a soap box and lecturing me.

----Mike


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

well mike, i think your doing ok, in the wild, fish require different ph levels, but as cm said, most will cope as long as its stable, and if you got them from the lfs, chances are his water is close to yours as far as chemistry is concerned, but anyway....

the time it takes for a tank to cycle varies greatly, thats why you test it, some people get through it very quickly, while others take some more time, just keep up with the advice everyone has given you, and you'll be done in no time, what he meant by shoals is just what you thought, they prefer groups, and as your three swim together, so would 30... most people recommend around 6 fish to be considered a happy school. but your right, dont over load your tank, untill its done cycling, your doing great imo... keep it up.


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## tylersaunt (Apr 7, 2006)

Just so you know--I, too, allowed a child to pick out my first fish and with nothing but the store's "how to" video as a guide wound up putting three goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. It took many, many weeks of almost daily water changes before levels subsided. Also, I wound up getting Porky, Petunia and Wilbur a bigger tank within a couple of months. So keep at it and good luck!


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