# difficult swords??



## fishytyke (Oct 21, 2006)

does anyone have much luck with amazon swords?, ive got 2 planted tanks and all my plants are thriving, i've got 3 types of vallis, 3 type of crypts, giant hygro, bacopa, giant and dwarf hairgrass, and loads of other stuff and all need regular trimming. However, i cannot grow swords to save my life....they either die off or like one i have grow for 6 months or so send off runners but then suddenly the leafs just seem to turn clear and die. 

if it was all plants i could understand but why on swords? 

i'm thinking of ripping the few remainders out and putting in some hygro or giant vallis instead. 

if anyone had any ideas, you could probably stop me ripping out the few precious hairs i have left.. :-( 

neil


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I know a bunch of very experienced aquarists and aquabotanists that can't grow a sword to save their lives. I don't have nearly as much experience and have one that has taken over most of a 38g tank, and several others that are doing well. Dunno why. Maybe its the water. I'm not doing anything special to it - throw some Flourish in once in awhile when I remember. Its got regular stock lighting, and plain gravel.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The biggest problem most "experienced" (my self included) have with swords is we run our tanks too lean.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2006)

Well my swords, i have had for 4 months and have grown a bit not much but a bit


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Damon, what do you mean by running too lean?

This is my biggest sword in the 38g tank, on August 22nd. Its grown considerably since then and covered more than half of the tank, completely packed the width from front to back. It has since been trimmed back, having had about 15 or so leaves removed.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2006)

Geez! Now thats why I don't buy Amazon swords...there is no room for other plants in there! 

fishytyke, do you fertilize at all? If not, maybe that is the problem. Also, how much light is over the tank?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I mean with my (our) high light systems, we use much more in the way of ferts than your tank(s). FOr instance, I use so much Nitrate and PO4 that I must dose them daily. While I dose enough (I think) for most of my plants, some of the nutrient hogs suffer. Results in stunted growth and even shedding leaves.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I do dose my higher light tanks with Flourish more regularly, and have CO2 injections, but on the low light tanks, doesn't seem to need it as much, even without any special substrate. And amazingly, no algae issues either.

JustOneMore20, last night I got some new plants for that tank because it was taking over so much and the type of fish in there didn't seem to appreciate it as much (danios and mollies mostly). Removed the sword and put it in my 29g with my palembangensis puffer, who will really love the overgrowth and darkness it causes.  I got a few more longer stem plants for the 38g like some apongentons, as well as some dwarf sub. I also have some other cuttings from my other tanks that I'll be adding to the 38g like wisteria and anubias. Looks much better now. 

I do have some other swords in my other 55 that are growing quite well, too, and the only ferts they get are puffer poop (lots of it though). 

Here's the same sword now, after trimming and moved into my 29 palembanensis tank.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You dose with flourish and excel. I use pure KNO3 KH2PO4 K2SO4 and CSM+B with extra Fe. While I dose much more than you, I still dont dose enough to consider my tanks overdosed. I'm adding about 5ppm of NO3 daily and .2ppm PO4. While this is enough for most plants, I think the swords want more.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I don't use Excel in the sword tanks, pretty much only use it, and only occasionally at that, in my 10g DP tank that has higher lighting. I haven't got any clue what the swords want, we don't give them much of anything but they seem to thrive. I'm convinced that one of the main reasons my plants do as well as they do is that I pretty much leave them alone. No idea what their needs are other than water.  All of the tanks seem pretty balanced, not much of a problem with algae in any of them (other than the usual low level of green spot on the glass), leaves aren't turning brown or yellow on anything, etc.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Thats what I figured 
In higher light tanks with co2 @ or above 25ppm the swords uptake rate greatly increases. I have one in a low light tank that does well but in my high light co2 tanks, it flourishes, then die off from lack of nutrients. They have to be the biggest nutrient hogs I know of......


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

I had poor luck with swords in the past, but I found that dosing the reg dose of KNO3 KH2PO4 and CSM+B, but I over dose on my FE (Iron chelate). If the leaves are getting holes, transparent and melting, it's prob a FE deficientcy. Iron seems to be the key to growing great swords. I have my Chelated Iron (FE) up over 1ppm and they seem to love it, before I would just dose FE twice a week, but now I dose 6xweek keeping it up to or slightly over 1ppm and they are shooting up like crazy. Use plant tabs as well, they are packed with FE and swords draw most of their nutrients through their roots. Flourish does have FE in it but not enough to really grow Swords, unless you have great tap water with lots of dissolved minerals like some ppl do. If you're not dosing dry ferts, then buy a bottle of Seachems Iron and dose with that, or visit gregwatson.com and order your dry ferts (cheaper) and do it that way. Damon turned me onto greg watson and I bought a years worth of dry ferts for just under $35. Seachems products will run you that same$ almost every 2 months,

BTW very nice sword boxermom  , I have a mother that same size that produces 15-20 new plants every month. my LFS buys them from me for $2/plant which gives me more $ to spend in there! 

sry for the long post, just trying to help 

zig


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

That really makes sense, we seem to have a lot of iron in our water, to the point that it leaves brownish-orange gunk in the bottom of sinks and toilets. Also why we get bottled water delivered.  Very heavy on minerals and crud.


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## fishytyke (Oct 21, 2006)

I decided to take the cowards way out, i took out the worst of the swords and filled the gaps with some more vallis, bacopa and a few crypts.


but on a more positive not i've just managed to build myself co2 reactors for my 2 180l planted tanks with bubble counters/fluid traps for under £4 (about $2.5ish). 

i know loads of people will have done this already but i feel pretty pleased with myself at the minute!!


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## <jasper> (Nov 18, 2006)

i think it's important in this hobby to go with your strengths - i prefer to have a lush, beautiful garden than plants half-growing, not looking their best etc. just let the swords go and plant what works for you. (i love swords and they grow really well for me, btw...!)

namaste,

justin


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I can't agree with swords drawing most of their nutrients through their roots. In fact, this is a highly debated topic. Discuused on every plant site across the globe. I believe swords just uptake everything available to them. The biggest problem I have with being heavy root feeders is certain nutrients are immobile mean they cannot be transported throughout the plant. They must be absorbed where needed. Ca and Fe are immobile so adding extra fe to the substrate does little for the plants. It must be absorbed through the water colums which also uses less energy than transplanting nutrients throughout the plant.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

From what i've seen with my cousins, his seem to do better of NOT being planted in the substrate. When it was in the gravel, it kept dying back etc. But, when he left it float-it takes up half of his 10 gallon. Granted his water is nutrient rich from the fish and food he feeds, but it's something I thought might help out here.

I'm supposed to be getting in a medium sized sword for my 65 gallon, we shall see how it fares! My lily pads seem to be doubling in size so hopefully that's a good sign hehe.


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