# Shut Up Already!



## dwool36

I am always reading posts from teenagers whining about being broke. GIVE ME A BREAK! SOMEBODY CALL A WAAAAAMBULANCE! When I was a teenager I ALWAYS had money...it's this foreign concept called WORK! Mow lawns, rake leaves, get a paper route, there is always some opportunity to make money. I know I am probably angering some of you teenagers, and if you do work then this is not for you, but please don't respond with a list of excuses. I have raised three teenagers and have two more to go. All three of my teens had their own cars at 16…and they paid for them, not me! Can anyone guess how they paid for there own cars? Yep…THEY WORKED! They did anything possible (and legal) to make money. They walked and washed dogs, cleaned dog crap from yards, mowed lawns, shoveled snow, anything they had to do. I am willing to bet that my 11 year old daughter has more money in the bank than half the teens on this forum. It is ALL her money that she earned outside the home. Not one cent came from me. 

So, the next time you start a post about how you have no test kit, your tank is too small, etc., and you can’t fix the problem because you have no money, shut up and get to work. Get rid of your fish until you have earned the money to take care of them properly. Believe it or not, you will really appreciate this hobby when you have worked and earned the money yourself to support it.


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## angelfishamy

im a teenager but i agree with you i work for what i have when i didnt have a job i did c****************s around my house to earn money i would rather do a little hard work than harm my fish by having meager conditions for them i also do 30% water changes each week and pay my dad $20 d month toward electric and water there really is no excuse especially if you are 16+


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## robyn

i agree. i admit that i am broke at the moment and i dnt hav a test kit, but am trying 2 buy 1. iv been looking 4 two weeks but know where here has anything. 
i cnt stand it when ppl moan about being broke if they dnt work. and its much more rewarding 2 buy something 4 urself than 2 use ur allowance or hand-outs from mom and dad. lazy ppl are so...LAZY!


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## Damon

Well being in S. Africa is a little different. There aren't the same opportunities as there are in the U.S. Equipment pricing is different and much more expensive in foreign countries. The U.S. is a big shoppping center. The same can't be said for everywhere else. But it is still possible.


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## craftyflalady

_I agree with you dwrool with everything you said. I raised 4 sons and they all worked at anything they could find to buy that first car and pay thier own insurance. And now that they are all adults, every single one of them have come to us and thanked us for making them do it themselfs and not just handing them everything. { as many of thier friends got things} At the time they thought us mean, and that we didn't "really" love them. But it in big picture they now see why we did what we did and didn't do and appreciate it. I have 2 son's under the age of 30 that both own homes, one serving in the USN and one still at home, but he works and pays us rent. { which is fine, because not quite ready for the baby to leave yet anyways} 

There is ALWAYS something a teen can do to earn money. One of my son's help the elderly couple down the street with household c****************s they could no longer do. Cleaning gutters and trimming bushes and such. Not only did he learn alot from them, he earned thier respect. and I swear sometimes would just make stuff up just to have him down at the house they enjoyed his company so much. 

So get out there after school...and find something to earn you some money for you hobby, don't expect everyone to just hand it to you. You will be rewarded in many ways, working for what you want, rather than having it all handed to you. 

JMHO 
Kathy  _


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## Ringo

Don't forget strawberry picking! If anyone on here needs extra money, try looking to work at a farm. 

Here ya also dwool (hope I am not one of the whiney teenagers, lol)
But for alot of us where not allowed to spend all of our money on fish stuff, so maybe thats why they complain???


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## Osiris

I agree! I was working at 14, me and couple buddies worked at a apple orchid, then went on to detassling corn and such in the fields til i got my license then worked other places.....


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## aaa

it is not that hard to earn money to keep fish. you don't really have to work, get a pair of guppy and the store credit they bring you should last a while, then you can start getting better and better stuff once you get that going, at least that's what i did.


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## fish_doc

The funny thing is they dont realize they will never have money. LOL. 
House payments, Electric bills, gas bills, phone bills, food bills, car payments, life insurance, car insurance, homeowners/renters insurance, health insurance etc... ... 
No matter how much money you make it seems to go away just as quick. 
To get the things you want in life you have to figure out how to get them. Depending on how bad you want them will determine how sucessful you are at getting them. Work is the equalizer in life and the chance for getting work is different in some places than it is in others. And many people cannot move to find work espically if they are younger and living with their parents. 

So we need to be understanding in this and offer the best solutions we can. That is why we have a DIY section and auction section. To help promote the hobby and extend the opertunity to those who cant afford to buy new equipment whenever they need it.

The teens today are the future of the hobby tomorrow and if we turn them away saying it is a hobby for the rich or middle class we could be turning away the einstin of the hobby of tomorrow.


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## Osiris

we have rich class fish keepers? i wanna meet one someday :lol:


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## Zoe

In the same line of thought that fish_doc started, there's also a difference between affording what you can afford and wanting what you can't realistically afford.

I've seen some people want want and want - they want a huge cichlid tank, a reef tank, a nano bla bla bla. When, realistically, they can't afford it, and it's frustrating. But, here's the thing, most people can't afford to just set up a big tank in one go. They have to save up for it (or pay off the credit card for months!).

So, you're a teen, you have a p/t job, and you want fish? Get a 10gal and a couple 5$ fish. Then set aside your pennies and eventually you can afford what you really want.

But that begs another question: is 16-17 years old really the right time to be setting up a 200gallon cichlid tank? Maybe it's easier with fish, but I have a reptile background I've always tried to dissuade the kids from getting involved into something they may not be able to easily sell or take with them when they move, go to college, etc etc. You know, at 16 years old, two years away from university, is not the time to get an 8foot boa constrictor OR A 200gallon tank.

My advice, therefore, would be to think small, enjoy yourself without going overboard, and save up! When you're out of college you may well be able to afford you're dream tank in one shot. How much of a dummer would it be to set up that dream tank then have to take it apart, sell/give it away two years later for college?

Zoe


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## aaa

i am lucky enough to live in my own house while i go to college, plus my dad interested in fish too... that's how i still keep my breeding stuff going. 

i agree about the part about people will have no money later in their life. people just know how to spend their paycheck. true, there is people with tight budget and can't save enough, but there is way more people got a credit card and think there is plenty of money in there while they have only a few bucks in their bank account. oh, i want a $600 purse, oh, i want a truck with hemi and the next thing they realized, they are in debt. if you have a good job, don't just spend them all. plan for the future, save the money, even do some investment. i know it is hard to save up money, but i think it is possible for you to grow your wealth. that's how my parent afford our house right now, we paid cash for our house, not borrowing money from others. 

plus you can keep fish keeping cheap. get tank for garage sale, get fish from store sale, get stuff from people who want to get rid of their fish, look for deals, breed some fish, i am sure you can earn your money that way.


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## Dr_House

> I am always reading posts from teenagers whining about being broke. GIVE ME A BREAK! SOMEBODY CALL A WAAAAAMBULANCE! When I was a teenager I ALWAYS had money...it's this foreign concept called WORK! Mow lawns, rake leaves, get a paper route, there is always some opportunity to make money. I know I am probably angering some of you teenagers, and if you do work then this is not for you, but please don't respond with a list of excuses. I have raised three teenagers and have two more to go. All three of my teens had their own cars at 16…and they paid for them, not me! Can anyone guess how they paid for there own cars? Yep…THEY WORKED! They did anything possible (and legal) to make money. They walked and washed dogs, cleaned dog crap from yards, mowed lawns, shoveled snow, anything they had to do. I am willing to bet that my 11 year old daughter has more money in the bank than half the teens on this forum. It is ALL her money that she earned outside the home. Not one cent came from me.
> 
> So, the next time you start a post about how you have no test kit, your tank is too small, etc., and you can’t fix the problem because you have no money, shut up and get to work. Get rid of your fish until you have earned the money to take care of them properly. Believe it or not, you will really appreciate this hobby when you have worked and earned the money yourself to support it.


Ah the old vinegar fly trap. Classic. :lol:


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## robyn

i think wat happens alot is teenagers get jobs that they hate and it puts them off a job for a really long time. im on my third job in 1.5yrs and im finally happy with my job (before i either hated my barely there wages or my moody boss). i hav a good relationship with my bosses and we even socialise outside of work.

money management is another problem. there are those of us who struggle to control our spending and those ppl, like my twin sister, who can easily save up by emptying their change into a bucket everyday.

unfortunately, as much money as we earn, there is always alot more things we can spend it on. we just hav 2 find that equilibrium


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## gdwb10101

Im a teen and dont have any money because im a soccer referee. Its not in season, but when it starts up, then the money starts rolling in, $30 per hour. Thats good. But i have to wait a couple weeks for it to start.


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## Zoe

Why can't you get a job when soccer isn't in season? Mow lawns, part-time waiter, whatever.

And NOW is the time to learn how to budget and save up, it's much easier when you're a kid than when you're 35 years old and 40,000 in debt


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## Jonno

I have to agree with the above posts , if you want nice things you have to work for them; they don't get handed to you on a golden plate do they? 

I'm 18 and have a full time job doing computer design, and since i have started working full time its been great being able to invest into a marine tank a whole new world opens up to you.


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## aaa

Zoe said:


> And NOW is the time to learn how to budget and save up, it's much easier when you're a kid than when you're 35 years old and 40,000 in debt


i completely agree with this... so many people don't understand that they can simply avoid the debt if they know that credit card is not a magic little card that you have spend a million dollar on something and never pay back. not only learn to budget and save up, learn how to invest your money too. most people tend to think buying stock is gambling, that was only part of the truth. if you learn how to invest your money, your risk is lower than the one that blindly follow others. of course you can lost your money, but you can gain money too.(no, i don't mean you "invest" all the money you have)


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## Mr Aquarium

just hope the fence or on a boat, Bush will give you everything you want


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## flamingo

Please stop talking about teens..it's annoying. 

Anywho, I don't have money for many reasons, but I don't feel like wasting my time in responding to your original message. Btw, yes..it is offending to me.

I'm trying to get a job at my lfs thankfully..should have an answer by tomorrow


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## Zoe

It's also annoying to hear teens lamenting about how they have no money and that's why their fish in too small a tank etc.

Dwool may not have been sensitive or kind, but he's just telling it like it is 

Good luck getting your job! But, if you have fishies depending on you, then it is your duty to care for them. Mow lawns if you have to


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## aaa

flamingo said:


> Please stop talking about teens..it's annoying.
> 
> Anywho, I don't have money for many reasons, but I don't feel like wasting my time in responding to your original message. Btw, yes..it is offending to me.
> 
> I'm trying to get a job at my lfs thankfully..should have an answer by tomorrow


i didn't talk about teen... i just give out my personal opinion, i didn't put down anyone. i didn't talking about teen only, there is plenty of people that fit in the things that i said. look around you, people driving a mercede may have to pay for the car every month. 

but i agree with you in some way, some of the post just gone too far. true there is people who are just spoil, but there is plenty others work for their money.


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## dwool36

> The teens today are the future of the hobby tomorrow and if we turn them away saying it is a hobby for the rich or middle class we could be turning away the einstin of the hobby of tomorrow.


I am in no way trying to imply that this hobby is for the rich or middle class. I am only trying to make the point that teens should be forced (yes, forced) to earn something that is a luxury; and fishkeeping as a teenager is a luxury. Too many teens think that their parents "owe" them (not their fault, btw. The parents caused it in the first place). 




> I think what happens alot is teenagers get jobs that they hate and it puts them off a job for a really long time


Welcome to life. You do not always get to do everything you "want," including your job. If you want to do what you "want," work you butt off doing whatever you have to so that you are able to get a college education.




> Please stop talking about teens..it's annoying.





> Anywho, I don't have money for many reasons, but I don't feel like wasting my time in responding to your original message. Btw, yes..it is offending to me.


At some point in your life you will realize that you do not know everything. That is a part of becoming an adult, which you are not. Are you one of the teens that my post is referring to? If you are offended by my post, you are suffering from a guilty conscience. 




> I'm trying to get a job at my lfs thankfully..should have an answer by tomorrow


I am curious, how many other places have you applied? What, in you young life, have you done on a regular basis to earn money? Are you only trying to work where you want to work, or are you willing to do whatever is necessary to earn money?


If I have offended anyone, oh well. I see by the majority of the responses that I am not the only one who feels this way. Teens, all children for that matter, need to understand that the only thing their parents "owe" them is a roof, food, BASIC clothing, medical care and an education. Everything else is the responsibility of the teen. We gave you LIFE...start acting like it. Speaking as a parent who has raised teenagers, we are not responsible for getting you a car, paying for your insurance, getting you a cell phone, buying you designer clothes and shoes, or anything else that is not necessary to keep you alive, healthy and educated.

What are you going to do when you are an adult if all you know is “Mommy and Daddy will take care of it.” Guess what, at some point we will not be able to. You are our future, and quite frankly, you are weak (you know who you are if this applies.) You are going to rule a world of hatred and terror, and you will not even be equipped to take care of yourself.


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## CaysE

It's interesting that the majority of people agreeing here are teenagers themselves. It's good to know that there are good responsible people on this site (then again, that may be the reason they are here).

dwool36, I largely agree with you as well, but think you're getting overzealous by questioning flamingo's actions and work ethic directly. Blanket statements work great in principle, but it is unfair to go after anyone specific who isn't your own dependent.


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## Puffer Pita

robyn said:


> i think wat happens alot is teenagers get jobs that they hate and it puts them off a job for a really long time.


I sure would have liked the luxury of avoiding jobs I didn't like or even hated so I could wait for something to come along that I did like. I've had jobs I hated pretty much all my life. You know what? I learned to suck it up and do it anyway because I had bills to pay and responsibilities. Even when I was a teenager, I did what I had to do so I could have some spending money. You think people really enjoy being dishwashers, bus boys, janitors, etc? No, they do it because its a paying job. Very few kids really know what they want to be when they grow up. Doesn't mean they can sit on their butts and expect things to be handed to them until they figure it out. No, they need to get a job and learn some responsibility while they're waiting to figure it out. I still haven't figured out what it is I want to do for a living and I'm decades past my teenage years. Yet I've been employed in one way or another since I was 15.


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## Zoe

CaysE, I think dwool is questioning flamingo because he took offense to the post, which would imply the post is aimed at him. Which probably isn't true, but dwool as many others seem rather fed up with the complaining "i can't afford this" etc, when, it's quite possible to buy what you want if you have a job (within reason, that is).

By all means, parents, buy clothes and food and the basics. But even my 7yr old cousin has some concept of earning $ for c****************s. He's put aside like 70$ (a lot for a 7yr old!) to buy the things he WANTS (ie, gameboy).

Flamingo, I wouldn't take any offense. If what he's saying is not directed at you, there is no reason to take offense. And if you are what he's describing, then perhaps you should look into making your own $ - which you appear to be doing, which is awesome. But like I said - you may not get your dream job, in which case you'll have to find something else.

And really, it's not difficult to find a job. There are lots and lots of places who hire 16-17 yr olds. THey may not be the funnest jobs in the world, but if they pay for your hobbies, interests, etc., then it's worth it.

Edit: Yeah, boxermom. NOW is the time to get used to jobs that aren't fun. Because, well, work is work. It's called work for a reason. Your work shouldn't make you miserable but, let's face it, it will never be ultra exciting and fun (unless you're a rollercoasted tester hehe)


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## CaysE

I tend to think that this thread was also started because of a particular thread or post on the forums somewhere else, as is typical of rants like these lately. Regardless of how flamingo responded, dwool said plenty in response in suggesting that he is suffering from a guilty conscious, and I agree. However, he didn't have to continue implying that he isn't trying hard enough by quoting the potential job offer and questioning it. That's just throwing wood on the fire.


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## Zoe

I agree ^^ As with parenting, you get better results saying "Please clean up your room" than "WHY is your room so dirty, you pig!"


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## dwool36

> think you're getting overzealous by questioning flamingo's actions and work ethic directly


I am not so much questioning his work ethic as I am genuinly curious. Flamingo, if you interpreted my queries as my questionings you work eithic, my apologies. I was simply wondering if you ONLY applied at the lfs, or if you applied other places as well.



> as is typical of rants like these lately


Do you really consider this a rant? In no way is my post extravagant or violent; I am simply responding to several posts I have seen from teens complaining about not having enough money. You notice I did not respond to any of those posts directly; I started a new thread in the appropriate forum. Am I passionate? Yes! These kids (young adult if "kid" offends you) are going to run the country when I'm an old man. As of right now, that scares the hell out of me.


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## Zoe

> These kids (young adult if "kid" offends you) are going to run the country when I'm an old man. As of right now, that scares the hell out of me.


 I'll bet every generation says that about the next one


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## dwool36

> I'll bet every generation says that about the next one


I have no doubt that is true. I am sure every generation thought that the kids of the day were going to end the world. The difference now, however, is that many today's kids are being taught that you do not need to work if you want something; simply ask for it. Today's parents, who were forced to work as teens because of simple economics, are now trying to save their kids from what they thought was a bad thing. What they do not realize is that they are creating what will be a generation of over-dependant, lazy adults that EXPECT things instead of being grateful for things they had to work for. Teens only see the positive side to their parents success, and think that is how the world will be for them: get a good job, make lots of money, have everything. They do not see, nor do they appreciate, how hard their parents had to work to get to where they are.


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## Zoe

Bah, there were spoiled, lazy kids back then just as there are now.


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## girth vader

when i was a teen, i worked 13 jobs walked to every one of them up hill both ways in storms that make Katrina look like a waterpark ride...... now I sell drugs to degenerate teens who offer to pay in cheesebugers while I kick puppies on my way to my street corner only to have to beat my hoes for not producing enough for me to afford my 34000g penguin tank that I want. I mean geez I put these hoes to work and I get all I get is a case of the drip and a lousy 2.5 gallon snail tank, and the snail came from my front yard. and replace the word tank, with a quart of malt liquor, but snally seems to like the hard stuff. hes a drunk too! but hey I gots me a sweet ride, so all that hard work payed off! It can for you too if you set your goals as high as I did!  

http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1130057429/Pimped_Out_Shopping_Cart


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## dwool36

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! LMAO


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## emc7

Still if someone posts that money is an issue, it helps us respond with low-cost solutions. People kept fish before test kits and power filters. Although it would be better if people didn't jump into things they cant afford. If they seriously care for their fish they can change 50% of the water every day, heat the tank by setting it on a vent or in a sunny window or give away most of the fish in the overcrowded tank. But I do hate people who can't afford a heater or test kit but somehow keep buying new fish.


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## girth vader

emc7 said:


> Still if someone posts that money is an issue, it helps us respond with low-cost solutions. People kept fish before test kits and power filters. Although it would be better if people didn't jump into things they cant afford. If they seriously care for their fish they can change 50% of the water every day, heat the tank by setting it on a vent or in a sunny window or give away most of the fish in the overcrowded tank. But I do hate people who can't afford a heater or test kit but somehow keep buying new fish.


quite true


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## robyn

dwool36 said:


> I have no doubt that is true. I am sure every generation thought that the kids of the day were going to end the world. The difference now, however, is that many today's kids are being taught that you do not need to work if you want something; simply ask for it. Today's parents, who were forced to work as teens because of simple economics, are now trying to save their kids from what they thought was a bad thing. What they do not realize is that they are creating what will be a generation of over-dependant, lazy adults that EXPECT things instead of being grateful for things they had to work for. Teens only see the positive side to their parents success, and think that is how the world will be for them: get a good job, make lots of money, have everything. They do not see, nor do they appreciate, how hard their parents had to work to get to where they are.


it is actually scary how lazy children of today are. im almost 18 and iv already noticed. every year, the new kids coming to high school are have even bigger attitude problems than the ones before them. when i was in 
grd8, i was scared of the matrics (grd12), but now that im a matric student, im scared of some of the grd8's!!!!

When i was younger, a 9yr old having access to a computer was thought of as 'your so lucky', but now 9yr olds hav laptops so they can spend all day on msn. its crazy!


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## Zoe

Nah what you have to understand is that every generation is like the one before it. Sure, there are differences in lifestyle, freedomes, wars, technologies, transportation, medicine etc etc etc... But in the end, people are people. There are rich people, spoiled people, ignorami, morons and geniuses and good people and bad people. Back in the early 1900's and before, there were rich families with rich kids who got everything they wanted without working for it and who leached off of mummy and daddy, there were transients who were just too lazy to work and spent their lives roaming around, grubby and dirty and drunk, not contributing anything.
And likewise there were good people, ambitious people who worked their whole lives and had families.

I mean, it's fine and good to preach and tell all kids to get a job but it does fall on deaf ears half the time. If a kid is abmitious enough to get a job, it's probably already underway. If he's not, well some stranger on a forum telling him to quit whining probably won't do much good; it was the parent's responsibilty to teach such things but apparently that was not succeded. But, of course, there bad parents back then, too 

I'd say we have more to fear from nuclear weapons and global warming than we do from a few lazy kids which will eventually become lazy adults (or normal adults, whatever; lots of lazy kids do grow up to become productive members of society )


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## fish_doc

Everyone needs to look at it this way. 

If it wernt for the lazy people we wouldn't look so good.









For those who have things easy









For those who have the perfect job









For those done working









For those who enjoy space.









For everyone else


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## Cichlid Man

flamingo said:


> Please stop talking about teens..it's annoying.
> 
> Anywho, I don't have money for many reasons, but I don't feel like wasting my time in responding to your original message.


You think that's annoying? What bothers me is when Damn Americans change the English language. For example saying anywho instead of any how like you just did.


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## Zoe

Cichlid Man said:


> You think that's annoying? What bothers me is when Damn Americans change the English language. For example saying anywho instead of any how like you just did.


Again, language is in a constant state of flux, words have always been changing and always will. Just think about it, in 40 years, the word "anyhoo" could be in the dictionary! :chair: but I'll draw the line at "u r so kewl, neway lets go 2 da park"

:chair: :chair:


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## CaysE

I'm all with everything Zoe's said, except the last seemingly hypocritical statement about text messaging language. LOL


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## mrmoby

Cichlid Man said:


> You think that's annoying? What bothers me is when Damn Americans change the English language. For example saying anywho instead of any how like you just did.



This quote is a perfect example of how a thread that started with a very valid point has quickly gone down the toilet.


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## girth vader

ya, but how about my pimp a** ride!!!!!


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## Puffer Pita

Ugh, I just went off on someone this morning on another forum who has a GSP (which she was told was a DP) in a 2.5g tank!! She doesn't have money to get a bigger tank, but she has money to spend on decor for the inappropriate tank. She got pissed at me for saying to stop spending money on other stuff and save it for a proper tank. Grrrrrrrrr!


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## Osiris

Cichlid Man said:


> You think that's annoying? What bothers me is when Damn Americans change the English language. For example saying anywho instead of any how like you just did.


 

:lol: :lol: :lol: O needed that friday and i got a friday funny already :lol: u gotta stop in chat more!


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## Cichlid Man

mrmoby said:


> This quote is a perfect example of how a thread that started with a very valid point has quickly gone down the toilet.


And this quote is a perfect example of how someone who belongs in the toilet has somehow managed to escape the bathroom and type s.h.i.t. like this on our forums. .:lol:


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## msdolittle

girth vader said:


> when i was a teen, i worked 13 jobs walked to every one of them up hill both ways in storms that make Katrina look like a waterpark ride...... now I sell drugs to degenerate teens who offer to pay in cheesebugers while I kick puppies on my way to my street corner only to have to beat my hoes for not producing enough for me to afford my 34000g penguin tank that I want. I mean geez I put these hoes to work and I get all I get is a case of the drip and a lousy 2.5 gallon snail tank, and the snail came from my front yard. and replace the word tank, with a quart of malt liquor, but snally seems to like the hard stuff. hes a drunk too! but hey I gots me a sweet ride, so all that hard work payed off! It can for you too if you set your goals as high as I did!
> 
> http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1130057429/Pimped_Out_Shopping_Cart



I haven't posted in WEEKS but holy crap was that hysterical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## AshleytheGreat

Dude fer real dis thread is gettin wack. :lol:

But really stop letting stuff like this bother you. Its the 21st century, THINGS CHANGE. 

But jeez, why are people expressing their concern about spoiled teens while children are starving in africa. Why dont we focus our attention on something we can change.


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## HybridS130

I make more at 19 than half the people in this city so, I really don't have anything to complain about. Im also too lazy to read through the rest of this thread to get the full conversation going on, that's half the american in me but, I won't be 100% until I sue someone. Im working on that though. My hobbies PWNT me though everyday, cars, fish, girlfriend.

Oh and this may just be the immaturity in me speaking but, when almost every other country is essentially saying "screw you US" regardless of how much aid we have given them, I find it hard to justify feeling guilty for not helping them. What is it that our parents tell us? If you can't help yourself then don't expect other people to help you?


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## HybridS130

AshleytheGreat said:


> Dude fer real dis thread is gettin wack. :lol:
> 
> But really stop letting stuff like this bother you. Its the 21st century, THINGS CHANGE.
> 
> But jeez, why are people expressing their concern about spoiled teens while children are starving in africa. Why dont we focus our attention on something we can change.



We have plenty of starving men, women, and children right here in our country to worry about. Almost every street corner has someone with a pity sign on it. Personally,I know it sounds harsh but maybe the human race in general just needs to slow down on reproduction. How long do you think it'll take until we deplete our natural resources.


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## Zoe

HybridS130 said:


> We have plenty of starving men, women, and children right here in our country to worry about. Almost every street corner has someone with a pity sign on it. Personally,I know it sounds harsh but maybe the human race in general just needs to slow down on reproduction. How long do you think it'll take until we deplete our natural resources.


While I'm not sure I agree with your other post, I am in COMPLETE agreement here. Time to implement a 2-child-max policy, eh?
Mind you, in Canada anyway, the population is dropping but immigration is increasing. Either way, there's not need for there to be 10billion people on the planet.

Zoe


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## emc7

Our tank (earth) is overcrowded, time to flush some or feed them to the martians.


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## HybridS130

emc7 said:


> Our tank (earth) is overcrowded, time to flush some or feed them to the martians.



LOL Brilliant! It's a shame though that the rest of the world doesn't understand how tanks become overcrowded but, if they did your analogy would be perfect. One thing that bugs me and maybe Im completely wrong on this and my point of view is wrong. I just don't see why we keep building more and more prisons for an increasing amount of criminals. I don't understand why that if someone is already going to spend their life in prison for a crime why they should even be living, death penalty or perhaps they should be put to work to help out the economy but, even then just to have one prisoner work you have to have 2-3 guards to watch them. 

Im not talking about people that have stolen a car or anything like that but, as far as pedophiles, rapist, murderers, etc. Really why should all our tax money go to supporting their way of life. The way I see it is if we didn't have to pay for all that then the left over money could easily go to the schools and better programs. Smarter kids, better jobs, better income, happier families, less starving people, less crime, and not to mention that your kids wouldn't need to be bumming money off of you lol.


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## robyn

HybridS130 said:


> I just don't see why we keep building more and more prisons for an increasing amount of criminals. I don't understand why that if someone is already going to spend their life in prison for a crime why they should even be living, death penalty or perhaps they should be put to work to help out the economy but, even then just to have one prisoner work you have to have 2-3 guards to watch them.
> 
> Im not talking about people that have stolen a car or anything like that but, as far as pedophiles, rapist, murderers, etc. Really why should all our tax money go to supporting their way of life. The way I see it is if we didn't have to pay for all that then the left over money could easily go to the schools and better programs.


i totally agree. these days, in south africa at least, it feels like we live in prisons while criminals go free. i also don't get y ppl on death row hav 2 b healthy enough to b put 2 death? they'r gna die so who gives if they are 100% healthy or not?

wow, this thread has gone totally off topic!


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## Zoe

Actually, it costs about as much to put a prisoner to death as it does to support them in prison for the better part of their lives. And, frankly, the prisons are full of robbers and thieves, gang members, and a lot of non-violent or only "minor" violent criminals... So it wouldn't really free up prisons or anything like that.

Also, you don't need 3 guards per criminal. Only for hanibal lecter


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## msdolittle

Zoe said:


> Actually, it costs about as much to put a prisoner to death as it does to support them in prison for the better part of their lives. And, frankly, the prisons are full of robbers and thieves, gang members, and a lot of non-violent or only "minor" violent criminals... So it wouldn't really free up prisons or anything like that.
> 
> Also, you don't need 3 guards per criminal. Only for hanibal lecter


Good point, the majority of inmates are NON violent criminals. Unfortunately, most of them would benefit from REHAB, not prison where they learn to be better criminals........

Ashley made a comment about helping starving children being something we can do something about. Are YOU doing something about that Ashley? In a perfect world we could hop on over and take care of it....but the problem isn't in feeding the children, its in getting the people to stop reproducing. They need birth control. Its not just the children starving, look at what their mothers go through....... they need help too. Its the people in general.

Unfortunately, we have plenty of horrors in THIS country as well..that get overlooked. When people see a homeless person here they think, oh he must be too lazy or oh, drugs must be the only thing he wants. What they fail to realize is the majority of homeless people are mentally ill........why don't we worry about our homeless and starving?

This thread is sooooooo getting off track.


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## HybridS130

Im really good at doing this to threads.

Edit: Oh and a bullet is a lot cheaper than 50+ years of housing, clothing, food, and everything else it takes to live. If the people in charge can actually crack down on certain crimes I can almost guarantee you would see some kind of decline there. Problem is people accusing others of crimes that didn't happen. I dunno there's really no easy solution, otherwise they would've used it already.


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## Zoe

HybridS130 said:


> Im really good at doing this to threads.
> 
> Edit: Oh and a bullet is a lot cheaper than 50+ years of housing, clothing, food, and everything else it takes to live. If the people in charge can actually crack down on certain crimes I can almost guarantee you would see some kind of decline there. Problem is people accusing others of crimes that didn't happen. I dunno there's really no easy solution, otherwise they would've used it already.


Yes, a bullet is cheap. But that's not how it is in real life, there is a lot more to putting a criminal to death than just 'a bullet'. I know it's tempting to believe that it's so much cheaper to just kill all criminals and not pay for them, but it's ignorant; it costs a LOT of put someone to death. Paperwork, separate facilities, automatic appeals (in fact, a fully apealed death penalty case can cost more than imprisonment for life without parole) etc etc. 

And yes, there are starving people all over the world, in america too. But just because there are BIG problems, that does not mean we don't have to address our own small problems.


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## Zoe

Sorry, I accidentally posted this one twice ^^


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## Christine

Zoe said:


> I know it's tempting to believe that it's so much cheaper to just kill all criminals and not pay for them, but it's ignorant; it costs a LOT of put someone to death.


Instead, we do both. Pay for them to live on death row 10-20 or more years AND pay to put them to death.


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## Christine

Weird... my post didnt show up even tho it says I have the last post in the thread. And, I don't see Zoe's post twice either!

Edited to add... well the other post showed up now after this one was posted. Strange! Sorry for a nothing post


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## Zoe

Ya I agree with you on that one. It's well and good to have a dealth penalty but when a prisonner spends 30 years on death row, it kind of defeats the purpose. lol


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## AshleytheGreat

msdolittle said:


> Ashley made a comment about helping starving children being something we can do something about. Are YOU doing something about that Ashley? .


I dont talk the talk an not walk the walk . I donate parts of my paycheck to various charities that not only benefit Africa, but problems here in the US. EDIT: For being uder 18 i say thats pretty darn good.


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## Zoe

That's great Ashley but again, just because there are big problems to deal with, we can't neglect the little ones and act like we don't need to improve ourselves.


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## blcknwitecuban

back 2 topic...

my mom has a problem with shopping and when i was younger she would buy me tons and ton of clothes, shoes, toys, ect. eventually i had to tell her NO MORE CLOTHES! it wasnt my choice for her to buy me so much and i greatly wish it was different but it is how it is and i'll just have to not do it to my kids one day. after a few years with my stepdad she was stuck in debt so she cant even afford to buy me tons of stuff anymore. i got a job and i think im making an improvement. its not always the fault of the child that there lazy or spoiled.... its almost always the parents and when they realize that they have lazy and soft kids its to late. im not saying there bad parents.. mayb they just had a bad up bringing and want there kids 2 have better lives.. mayb u should b talking to the parents for not challenging there kids.ur making your kids work and thats good but not all parents are as wise as you. im just glad im earning (most of) my own money and not relying on my mom anymore.


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## blcknwitecuban

and also about people thinking homless people are lazy and such... its not like they can go anywhere and ask for a job... who would hire a smelly dirty person with 5 layers of clothing? they probably care more about a good company and not some elses life


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## vinimack720

Baby_Baby said:


> I'm 13 (14 tomorrow) and I buy my own clothes, my own shoes, my own jewelry, and my own makeup. I pay for my gym membership and my school supplies.
> My parents are both doctors and I get money from them only if its for a good reason. They dont just hand me out money, and I'm glad.
> Even though they make $250,000+, they dont spoil me and I'm glad, its taught me so much responsibility.
> And when me and my friends hit the mall or the movies, I'm always the one with the cash saved up


where do you work?


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## fish_doc

Baby_Baby said:


> I'm 13 (14 tomorrow)


It is tomorrow. HAPPY BIRTHDAY.


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## Christine

Happy Birthday Baby Baby! 

I wonder how many times this thread can get hijacked


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## robyn

lol christine! Happy Birthday, Baby-baby


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## fish_doc

Christine said:


> I wonder how many times this thread can get hijacked


Speaking of - - - 

Did anyone hear about the kidnapping in Chicago last night???


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## fish_doc

Don't worry his parents woke him up so he could eat dinner and watch his favorite show. 


Get it Kid - napping 



awwww nevermind. . .


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## Osiris

WOW dang bear fans makin jokes i never get :lol:

I was watching xfiles last night man that is some missed up tv


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## Christine

fish_doc said:


> Get it Kid - napping


:shock: :help:


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## Dr_House

Happy Birthday, Baby Baby! And congratulations on saving up money and not taking handouts from your parents. I'm glad your parents have raised you with enough discipline and don't just hand you money whenever you bat your eyelashes at them. I wish I could meet your parents. Being a teacher, I meet a lot of bad parents, so I'd like to run into a few good ones now and again so I don't totally lose my faith in humanity. :lol:

On the topic of dealing with teens with money issues keeping fish...
I've never seen teens whining that they don't have enough money on this forum. I've seen them state that they don't have enough money to implement a specific action (usually buying a larger aquarium) and then a lot of people whining that that teen is lazy for not having a job. However, I don't read every post on the board, so it is entirely possible that I am missing such posts.

Perhaps there are more tactful ways of dealing with such issues. If someone has a Bala Shark in their 10 gallon aquarium, a more appropriate stocking list for such a tank may be in order, rather than "Dude, get a bigger tank or get rid of your fish!". While the preceding statement may be good advice, and will probably make the person who says it feel big, powerful and smart, it's not particularly helpful and not likely to be followed.

Most people (many who are now great fishkeepers) get into this hobby "the wrong way". They find an aquarium for $10, see a lot of fish they want to put in it, and find a pet store that is only too happy to sell them what they want with no questions or help. To berate them for such actions is counterproductive and works against the purpose of this forum. 

Instead of beating them over the head with what they're doing wrong, we can suggest what to do right. Basic psychology suggests that to tell someone what to do is far more effective than to tell them what not to do. Common sense and decency suggest that if we tell someone what to do in a friendly way, it is far more effective than to belittle them, use harsh words, and bicker amongst one another until every thread degenerates into a finger-pointing, name-calling urinating contest.


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## Zoe

I do agree that threads can go downhill and fast, at times.

But I do think that most threads start out the right way. It's after the person replies "Well I don't have enough money to move my 4 goldfish out of my 5 gallon tank" that people get frustrated and irrate. I've seen that happen... but I've also seen it happen that the person is all too happy to get a bigger tank, and everyone else is happy for them.

But them, I am also of the opinion that if someone doesn't listen to you the first couple times you tell them something, beating them over the head with it is not going to help anything.


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## Dr_House

I understand, Zoe. As I said, I haven't read every post here, so it is likely that I have missed many of these posts. Lucky me. :lol:


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## AshleytheGreat

Hmm well i guess im speaking for the ither side of teens. I dont buy my own clothes, i didnt buy my own car, i dont pay when i go to the movies and what not and im 15. I know im spoiled but i would never rub it in. I still go to the salvation army to buys clothes; and i make a lot of my clothes. I dont think its a bad thing to be like this. Work does build character and thats why when i do work i usualy dont accept the money or i donate it because i dont need it to buy anything, its all paid for. Not all spoiled kids are like paris hilton you know...


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