# Do plants require Special treatment?



## jclaudii (Feb 16, 2006)

My main priority is my fish and survival of my fish (freshwater), but I love live plants. Now my tank is 29 gal and I plan on having a lush tank with my fish in it. Do I need to plan on adding any ferts or special soils. One guy recomended I replace my undergravel (not being used) with potting soil with rock on top? Any ferts I add or other additives need not to harm my fish! How many plants can I have before i have to use some co2? or if my fish population is enough will they make enough co2? 

Thanks for help I'm still kinda new to the live plants, I add them and they die a few months later. I don't mind just wish they would live longer. they u sually turn yellowish before croaking.

Thanks for help.
jason


----------



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

jclaudii said:


> One guy recomended I replace my undergravel (not being used) with potting soil with rock on top?
> Thanks for help.
> jason



The guy that recommended that was "The Old Salt". You can count on whatever he says!


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Your plants are starving on both ends, having only gravel below them and I'm betting not enough light above them. A 29 gallon tank is pretty deep, and if you're using the standard lightstrip that tends to come with them, that light can't penetrate deeply enough to do the job.

Replacing the gravel with soil & sand will work absolute wonders for your plants even if you can't upgrade the lighting, but more light will of course also help. 
You won't need any fertilizers at all, but they can help. The fishfood will provide more than enough nutrients for the plants. Without CO2 injection, the dirt itself will be able to provide about 2 year's worth of carbon without needing replacement. If you decide to add CO2, it will last longer, but the increased growth rate will use up everything else all the faster, and then you really will need fertilizers/additives. The results would be spectacular, though.
Your fish will provide a lot of CO2, and the plants themselves also make a bunch of it, and they can store it for daytime use within themselves. 

Plants have never really done well with gravel alone until the water was so old & the gravel so polluted that it became able to support plants.

I'm a fan of the low-tech method, but the high-tech method also gives fantastic results. Simpte is our resident expert on the high-tech method, and our main all-around plant guru, so I'm sure he'll be around soon enough to give you loads of info you can really use. While I'm a bit of a jack-of-all-trades, Simpte is DA MAN when it comes to plants, so if he tells you something different, believe him, even though he's biased toward high-tech. 
 jk, Simpte! LOL


----------



## jclaudii (Feb 16, 2006)

Thanks, I think I like the low tech method better (cause I'm a do it yourselfer). Now since you bring up lighting, I do need some lights. I think it may be easier if I just built my own using parts from hardware store. I can buy the ballast and the end caps. Wire it all up and buy a bulb with more spectrum to it. Would this method work? I know I would need to get the bulb first and then build around it, because it would requrie a certain wattage and possibly frequency. Let me know what your thoughts are on lighting for plants. Right now I have a reveal brand indescant lamp on em.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Thanks for the vote of confidence T.O.S. 
The low tech method is really easy and just about matainence free so it does have its advantages. There are very few drawbacks to the low tech method also. It really depends on how much you want to get out of the tank. I'll list pros and cons to both methods.................

Low tech:
Pros:
Cheaper
Less matainence
Less knowledge needed
Slower growth

Cons:
Messier
Slower growth
Limited plant selection
(Note I put slower growth in both categories depending on what you want)

High tech:
Pros:
*Large plant selection
Faster growth

Cons:
Expensive in the beginning
No need for upgrades later if you change methods
More work required

*The # 1 reason to go high tech

The biggest reason I don't go low tech is the many, posts of people who buy plants without knowing their requirements and wondering why they die. I also do not care for DIY co2.

IMO, Soil is messy and turns your water yellowish for a cpl of months. While not harmful in any way, I don't like the look even though it is natural. Tinting will vary on soil used and application of it. It is a very good substrate. T.O.S. is right about the choice of substrate. I find sand alone or with a layer of laterite underneath it is just as useful and a bit less messy.


----------



## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

be careful that whatever potting soil you use does not have pesticides or other harmful chemicals in it like chemichal fertilizers, etc. use something organic.


----------



## jclaudii (Feb 16, 2006)

Thanks for all the help in getting started in the right direction. I have an Idea....WHAT IF....I used some panty hose or another really fine material and put my soil in it. I then put my plants in it and rubberband it together or tie it. Put it in the rock bed. If I need to I could always open up the panty hose and add some plant food if necessary. I'm thinking the fine material will let water flow in and out and some nuturients from the water but keep the soil and the mess down to a minimum. Any ideas on the lights


> I think it may be easier if I just built my own using parts from hardware store. I can buy the ballast and the end caps. Wire it all up and buy a bulb with more spectrum to it. Would this method work? I know I would need to get the bulb first and then build around it, because it would requrie a certain wattage and possibly frequency


Thanks alot for the help


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Hmm... I don't know if the pantyhose idea will work or not, since I've never tried it. I suspect that it won't be much help, but it's worth an experiment.

Plants fight, as odd as that may sound. They engage in chemical warfare and the effect this has on them is called allelopathy. In a low-tech tank this can be a problem if you get lazy and don't change the water enough. Saggittarias & Vallisnerias can't be kept together, for example. 
In a high-tech tank allelopathy is eliminated, resulting in a lot more species being able to share the same tank. I just figured I'd mention that since Simpte touched on it. Also, the brighter lights typically found in a hightech tank can support more light-loving species.

So, as for your own lighting situation, building your own custom hood is probably your best option. You'll want to shoot for around 3 watts per gallon in a low tech tank as deep as a 29gal, around 90 watts total. Either power compacts or long aquarium plant bulbs should work nicely, with a spectrum of either white or with a yellow/green spike. You can maybe go with only 60-75 watts and be okay too, but I think the 90 will give better results. 29's are just a bit tall, you see.


----------



## jclaudii (Feb 16, 2006)

at this link i found this bulb would it work and if so what type of connector does it have. It mentions 4 pin. http://www.petsolutions.com/Daylight+SunPaq+Powercompact+Bulbs-I-42902032-I-C-33-C-.aspx the price of this one is kinda steep. The next one here is only 40 watts but its still 15 bucks. http://www.petsolutions.com/Power+Glo-I-15511625-I-C-33-C-.aspx Is there a happy medium or do I have to get the 90 watt bulbs even though the bulb itself is putting out more light in my spectrum range. This is very trick trying to piece together a lighting system. There are lost of ballast to choose from and they are not cheap. 

Thanks TOS for the help.


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

You don't need 90 watt bulbs, just a total wattage around 90 watts.


----------

