# lowering water hardness with vinegar?



## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

some of my fish in my tank are starting to die off, and loose there colours.
I had no clue what was wrong with my tank, cause ive done nothing differant than any other water change that ive done in the past (just did a water change 5 days ago, and everything has gone haywire).
so i went to my LFS and had the hardness of my water tested, and the hardness of my water was way way way up there. (21 drops and the solution hadnt even turned green yet)
so know i need to get the hardness down b4 i loose anymore fish.

The guy at the store said i could use vinegar if i couldent find any peat moss around. and i havent been able to find any peat moss yet so i thought id try vinegar, but have no clue what to do.
help please.....


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

What type of fish are they first off?
I highly doubt your water hardness was the problem.............
Vinegar is sold in such week concentrations you'll have to add way to much to make a change and your tank will smell like vinegar for a week (I tried this a cpl of years ago).

Depending on tank size, purchasing 50% of the water volume in R.O (usually about 60cents at a lfs) or bottled distilled water from your grocer will help. Once you make the waterchange, only use R.O. or distilled for top offs. You regular water source will be fine for waterchanges. The problem occurs when water evaporates but the calcium and magnesium dont. It accumulates in the tank thus making the water harder over time.

Muriatic acid works better but is difficult to dispense and can drop the GH/KH/PH too fast causing fish to die.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

the fish in the tank are: 
mollies-2 got disfigured and died
cherry barbs- more active than ive ever seen them 
betta-losing colour and not so active 
gourami-my gourami died earlier today. he lost all of his colour, got really fat and died, but my molly also had some fry, so he pigged out..
cories-acting the same
guppies-acting the same

is the calcium and magnesium the white stuff thats on the tank towards the top?


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

oh yeah what does R.O mean?


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Reverse Osmosis

The white stuff on top of your tank could probably be the calcium and magnesium if it looks like a milky haze on the surface


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## dwool36 (Jan 31, 2006)

RO means reverse osmosis. You can get RO water at the grocery store out of the machines that dispense water for 50 cents/gallon. I think it is called "Glacier" water. It is what I use for my Ram tank.

Your fish losing their color and your barbs "more active than ive ever seen them" (are they "darting?") sounds like nitrate stress.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm willing to bet there is a disease in your tank. Are any of the remaining showing signs of stress/disease? Mollies love hard water. Bettas are one of the most hardy fish out there. I would still use the r.o./distilled water. One thing we really should have asked earlier is tank setup including temp, substrate, waterchange schedule, feeding schedule, and tank age.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Hardness doesn't just shoot up overnight. Your fish are used to whatever it is. Check everything else before you add additional stress by changing pH and hardness. The dead fish may have caused ammonia and nitrite peaks, even if poor water quality was not the cause of the first death. Compare the tank pH and hardness to your tap water and, if they're close, change a lot of water. if they're not close, change about 10% at a time until your fish look better.


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## MyOwnZoo (Aug 1, 2006)

What about nitrates in the tap water? Would they increase that much?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Some tap water has nitrates in it (ususally from pollution), check it with a nitrate test kit. If the level is in the safe range and lower than the nitrate in the tank, you can use still it for water changes. Most of the nitrate in tanks comes from fish waste and uneaten food and can be fatal in high concentrations. Regular water changes should keep it down, but very large water changes can be required if it gets out of control. 

Switching water sources (esp. to RO) could cause a fatal drop in pH and hardness. But if your tap water is "too hard" (really depends on the fish) diluting it with filtered water to adjust the hardness is better than adding something to the tank (such as vinegar or pH down). Many fish they tell you to keep in low pH (rams and tetras) really need low hardness so RO water is the way to go. But cories are the only soft water fish on your list. If you tap water is ok, use a good conditioner like Prime and change 80-90% of the water.


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