# now that i am cycled



## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i have cycled before but they always got broke (it was a 5.5 gal)
so let me ask you guys.

how often do i clean the rocks?
how often and how much water do i change?

i am 10 gallons with three bettas.
it is a filtered tank.

can i add some ghost shrimp now? if so how many?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

My bettas eat shrimp. If by rocks, you mean large decor type rocks, clean if they look dirty, otherwise they don't need cleaning (and clean without soap or other cleansers when you do clean them, just use water), and change 50% of the water. If you mean rocks as in substrate, it should be vacuumed with every water change.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

What kind of filtration do you have on your tank?

Vacuum your tank once a week with your water changes, do little water changes (10%), then once every 4-7 months do a big water change(leave one inch of water on the bottom of tank and really clean substrate, save as much water as possilbe).
Don't replace your filter floss (if its a cartridge filter) or carbon until it really really needs it.
Once your filter hardly flows, take the cartridge out and rinse it in a buckt of the tank water, or under the faucet, then put back in the filter cartridge.

Don't ever ever change 50% of the water, unless you are having problems in your tank. One of the best dechlorinater products out there is Am-quel. Works great wile safely taking out Nitrates, etc.

Don't know about the shrinp


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Excuse me? Don't ever change 50% of the water? Why the hell not? The bigger the water change the better, IMO, especially in small tanks.


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## Sable (Nov 6, 2006)

Don't ever pour Am-quel directly into the tank. Use it only to condition the new water, and only use as much as is directed. Otherwise, you risk killing your beneficial bacteria.

Alternatively, you could use heated spring water - Poland Springs has a pH of 7, 0 ammonia/nitrites/nitrates, no chlorine, and no chloramine.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Excuse me? Don't ever change 50% of the water? Why the hell not? The bigger the water change the better, IMO, especially in small tanks.


IF there are no problems going on with the tank, leave everything alone with it while keeping up with smaller water changes.
A 10G is very small tank, and keeping all the stats stable can be a pretty hard thing to do for a newb. So if everything is going good in a tank, why mess around with the water?
Oh and Boxermom you don't have to get all angry because someone disagrees with you, There are other members on this board that know about fish, and know how to care for the water (can you belive it? ) So you don't have to tell them that there wrong because of there particular way. Your way of keeping fish alive obviously works, but there are others members who like to post

I doubt they have Poland Springs water down in KY, but they might.
You can't just change right into bottled water though, its RO water and is differant than well water, so just automaticaly changing to bottled water could do something to your tank/fish
I believe you can add Am-Quel right to your tank, if you ever have any problems with Nitrite, or ammonia or whatever the Am-Quel will take it out right away.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm not the least bit angry. That's just an absolutely ridiculous statement to make, and one that has no basis in fact whatsoever. Large volume water changes HELP keep a small tank stable as a matter of fact and IMO you shouldn't be trying to confuse her by scaring her into think that there's something wrong with it. Almost every fishkeeper I've talked to with DECADES of experience have recommended the same. Larger tanks are much more stable and you can get away with smaller water changes, but small tanks should definitely have larger water changes in order to keep them under control. The only exception I can think of is a well-balanced, VERY heavily planted, low bioload tank, which only rarely, if ever, need water changes. I've seen some questionable and some downright wrong advice from you lately so I'd tend to take your advice with a grain of salt (no pun intended).


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> I'm not the least bit angry. That's just an absolutely ridiculous statement to make, and one that has no basis in fact whatsoever. Large volume water changes HELP keep a small tank stable as a matter of fact and IMO you shouldn't be trying to confuse her by scaring her into think that there's something wrong with it. Almost every fishkeeper I've talked to with DECADES of experience have recommended the same. Larger tanks are much more stable and you can get away with smaller water changes, but small tanks should definitely have larger water changes in order to keep them under control. The only exception I can think of is a well-balanced, VERY heavily planted, low bioload tank, which only rarely, if ever, need water changes. I've seen some questionable and some downright wrong advice from you lately so I'd tend to take your advice with a grain of salt (no pun intended).



Well not to get on anyone's side here but I have to agree with Boxermom on this one as a smaller tank is much more unstable than a big one and there is no reason that a large water change can't be done on ALL tanks because there is not much bacteria in the water it's self. I don't see why you would'nt do at least a 25 to 30% water change their per week or bi-weekly depending on how big the bio-load of the tank is as routine maintance. As far as cleaning goes, the only cleaning that needs to be done is a gravel vac with the water change to remove the crap on the bottom, this will lower your over all total desolved soilds in the tank which will mean better and cleaner water.

This a tank wizard from rate my fish tank. This will give you a tool and a guide line to go buy.
http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/freshwater_tank_wizard.php


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

SpoiledFishies said:


> Vacuum your tank once a week with your water changes, do little water changes (10%)


The "tank wizard" said that you should replace 2G's of water every 2 weeks, which is the first thing I said about the water changes/vac.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

SpoiledFishies said:


> The "tank wizard" said that you should replace 2G's of water every 2 weeks, which is the first thing I said about the water changes/vac.


Yes, but remember that the "tank wizard" is just a guide line to follow not a solid rule. If you have more of a bio-load in the tank then you will have to change more water.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

Well yeah if your nitrites or ammonia or whatever are high then you do bigger water changes to get rid of them, but if everything in the tank is doing good, why mess with it? But still keeping up with water changes, just smaller ones.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

No, this would be after the cycle that you would still do water changes, as you said, but the idea is to do a large or small enough water change so as to give fresh water, remove total solids in the tank and keep the ph steady cause over time the ph will drop as KH absorbes the Nitrates, when the "sponge" is full the ph drops, so in order to keep this balance you do water changes. It is recommened to do a larger water change on tanks that have a larger bio-load because of the total solids that will be in the tank.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

SpoiledFishies said:


> Well yeah if your nitrites or ammonia or whatever are high then you do bigger water changes to get rid of them, but if everything in the tank is doing good, why mess with it? But still keeping up with water changes, just smaller ones.


Because there are a lot more things in the water than nitrites and ammonia. Water changes are also needed to keep the nitrates down, which are toxic at high levels. There are also "intangibles" such as growth hormones and other such things that need to be kept minimized by doing water changes. I agree with pokagon about large water changes even on larger tanks. Nothing wrong with large volume changes at all as long as they are done regularly and not once every few months. I do 50% changes weekly on everything from my 10 gallon tanks to my 55 gallon tanks. Yes, it can be time-consuming but then I also have healthy fish and no algae issues in all of my tanks, which I attribute in large part to keeping the water in pristine conditions.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i would never do a big water change unless i need to.
boxermom, thats how i could never keep my 5.5 cycled. i will listen to my own advice and the advice of others a just do a 20% water change weekly.
yes my bettas eat most of the shirmp, i dont care about this... if they eat them fine, if not then i will have shrimp...

i was unaware i need to vacuum weekly. in the past i did it monthly, and i guess that is one reason my past tanks were a disaster zone.

thanks for all of the input. sorry boxermom... although i am a bit of a noob (5 years?) i dont believe half of the stuff you say is right. no offense but i just dont agree with much of what you say. i do my own research before posting my questions of course, and it seems what you say is very very different from what i am reading if not opposite.... thanks anyway.

be mad if you must, i can say what i like and so can you


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Hey, your tank, your fish, do what you want. No one is trying to force you to do otherwise. You asked for advice, it was given, take what you want and disregard the rest. No skin off my astabulah either way.

Odd, though, that I've never had a problem keeping any of my tanks cycled, not even my 1 gallon tanks, with 50-100% weekly water changes. Water changes have nothing to do with keeping a tank cycled once it is. And I've never had a problem with water quality or diseases in my tank. IIRC, however, you have. Might be something to take into consideration.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

good for you boxermom!!
the only time i had a problem was recently during my cycle when two bettas suddenly got swim bladder diseases. and now they are fine.....
and this is in a five year period


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

I just had to add this, I have a co-worker that has a 55 gal. tank with about 30 fish, full bodied and has never done a water change. I don't know how he does it but has never lost a fish. The tank has been up and running for 15 years! He must have the touch :fun:


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Is it heavily planted?


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Is it heavily planted?


No!? that's the thing,he had plants at one time but got rid of then because of the extra work that they caused, so now he has the fake type. One thing though, his house has a Ro unit built into the water supply and I am wondering if this has anything to do with it. Not sure. He said no water changes, just a top off once in a while.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Then again, there's someone here at work who is one of the one-uppers, who claims to have a 1000 gallon tank in his house. Yet he doesn't know the simplest things about fish, much less can tell me what kind of fish he has in it. I'm thinking shenanigans, especially since people who have been to his house don't recall ever seeing one.  You'd think a 1000g tank would be rather noticeable, eh?

EDIT: Stupid cut and paste. It originally said I'm surprised and I wonder whether he ever tests the water. I'd be interested to know what the nitrate level is and how the levels aren't high enough to be toxic, without plants to use it up. But I'm a big believer that most fish are more hardy than we give them credit for.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

I have never been to his house so I will have to take him at his word although I would like to see his Nitrates as well. his family says the same thing, "he never changes his water". So I don't know. His son works here also


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Boxermom can you tone it down a bit, you're giving me, and I should think everyone else a headache (as usual). And yes, doing more than 50% water changes can have a negative effect if not done regulary. 50% water changes once, or better twice a week are fine (As long as you don't overfeed).
If on the otherhand if you let your nitrates rise, and your pH drop by not doing regular partial water changes and then all of the sudden do a big one, this can cause tempory shock to the present livestock and even death in less hardy species. Doing big water changes can also be detrimental to the filter bacteria (especially if not using a propper water conditioner)


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

yes, i have spoke with someone who has kept fish for 50 years with no water changes and no cycling.. and his fish have not had any problems.

lots of old fashion people do this i have noticed... but how many actually do it without killing off all the fish i wonder. i think its pure luck!


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

There's an lfs near us who've been around for about 40 years, he says he's never done one water change. His fish are all a bit on the lethargic side, but he claims to have few deaths. On the other hand the big aquatic chain store just around the corner who have a big sytem and are always doing mass water changes on a grand scale has at least one dead fish in every tank.
So I think balence is key.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> Boxermom can you tone it down a bit, you're giving me, and I should think everyone else a headache (as usual).


You'll forgive me I'm sure (or not, couldn't care less either way) if I find this extremely funny coming from you - someone who has run a number of people off this site with his belligerent attitude and nazi-mod behavior. But have a nice day, regardless of whether your decide to ban me again or not for merely speaking my mind.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Boxerface said:


> I find this extremely funny coming from you - someone who has run a number of people off this site with his belligerent attitude and nazi-mod behavior.


Yeah right, no. 1 on aquarank, now what where you saying again? lol @ u


> But have a nice day, regardless of whether your decide to ban me again or not for merely speaking my mind.


There's a big difference between speaking your mind and being a complete pain in the rear end.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

if you dont mind i would like to ask another question. or am i interupting on a thread that I started?


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

My 10 gallon is on one of those fish stands that have room for two tanks. one on top and one on bottom. well.. my 10 gal happens to be on bottom just about a foot above the floor. 
omg, my syphon is getting horrible suction. its fine for doing a WC very slowly, but cleaning the grave like this isnt working. i wonder how i can modify it to work? maybe cut the hose where it isnt so long?


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

try the ones that you can pump the water with your hand. that should solve your problem.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

thank you very much.
I hope i can find one at the LFS... if not do you know somewhere i can order one?


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i swear i cant use these things. even on my tank on top... i have to suck on it to get the vaccum started and sometimes get nasty water in my mouth


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Maybe a piece of debris is stuck in the hole right before the hose starts. Happens all the time with my 20 gallon.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

nope  i looked
thanks anyway


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

i don't really know where you can order them... and i forgot where i got mine. plus you can use any type of human operate pump that you can connect one inflow(connect to the tank) and outflow(to sink or bucket or whatever) and it would work too.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

IIRC, you bought a gravel vacuum recently didn't you? You might check as some of them act as pumps, too. You can connect a siphon tube to them and the motor draws the water out.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> You'll forgive me I'm sure (or not, couldn't care less either way) if I find this extremely funny coming from you - someone who has run a number of people off this site with his belligerent attitude and nazi-mod behavior. But have a nice day, regardless of whether your decide to ban me again or not for merely speaking my mind.


Cichlid-Man is simply doing his job, I have talked to a few people who have described him as a nazi-mod, but hes just doing his job (and a good one )

I rented a book from the library today, intro was the dude has been keeping fish for 30+years, marine, freshwater blah blah blah. So I get to the part when they talk about water changes, it said bi-weekly do a 15-25% water changes while keeping up with tiny water changes weekly.

you don't have to vacuum weekly, it can be done bi-weekly.
But it defintely helps with keeping the tank more stable and keeps the substrate looking good.
Like me you could have horrible tap-water so (here it comes) IME whenever I do 50% water changes I always have problems, and obviously the guy that taught me this way has problems too when he does 50%WC.
By the sounds Boxermom your well water is perfect, and is great water for your fish directly out of the tap, not all of us have good well water.

I've read from cichlid-man and pokogon, and my lfs dude (hes a goodin', he cares about the fish, not money believe me) that they never hardly do water changes, so by the sounds of it not doing water changes keeps the fish healthy, or the least alive.
I've read about, expierenced tons of problems with big water changes, so when you say excuse me, why the hell not?
Well why do you have to do big water changes? I haven't heard no basis for your big water changes either.


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

the water change amount have no right or wrong answer. if the fish is healthy, do it. i even do 100% water change with my 1g betta tanks. like i said, it doesn't really matter. most of the bacteria is in filter and gravel anyway, it is not like water change will kill them off fast.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

SpoiledFishies said:


> Well why do you have to do big water changes? I haven't heard no basis for your big water changes either.


Then you haven't been reading very carefully.



Boxermom said:


> Because there are a lot more things in the water than nitrites and ammonia. Water changes are also needed to keep the nitrates down, which are toxic at high levels. There are also "intangibles" such as growth hormones and other such things that need to be kept minimized by doing water changes. I agree with pokagon about large water changes even on larger tanks. Nothing wrong with large volume changes at all as long as they are done regularly and not once every few months. I do 50% changes weekly on everything from my 10 gallon tanks to my 55 gallon tanks. Yes, it can be time-consuming but then I also have healthy fish and no algae issues in all of my tanks, which I attribute in large part to keeping the water in pristine conditions.


On all of my tanks smaller than 10g, I do 75-100% water changes. 

Once again, its your tank, your fish, do whatever you want with it. I just objected to the 'NEVER do 50% water changes' part, as there is on basis in fact for saying that.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

Don't worry I read everything I can, but the point I was trying to make is (try reading sometime ) That some people own fish and don't do any water changes, or do little water changes. Like Pokogon, Cichlid-Man just posted, and through MPE (my personal experience) and my lfs stores E
Even though there is a build-up, nitrates, whatever.. the fish, or some fish can obviously take that without any visible stress.

I have done 75% water changes back when I had bettas. Guess how many of the 15 bettas I still have now? Not one, I always thought it was KH,(for mine is dreadfully high) but now I question if it was the 75% water changes that I did every few days.
I've had no success on big water changes, and your the first (besides aaa, but bettas are hardy, specialy if the taps any good) I have heard about who does big water changes and has no problems, so by the sounds you have great well water.
Theres really no amount of water that has to be changed, but I take into consideration that the person I am replying to does not have great water conditions, so I "scared" by me saying never ever do 50% water changes, for I have no clue what her water stats could be, I have no clue what her filtration is, I really know nothing about this tank cept for the fact thats its cycled and a 10G.
So I took into consideration (until I found/find out) what her stats are, then if her water is great from the tap, then I/someone could be able to tell her that it isn't/is safe for her to do large water changes, etc.
I like to know about the stats of the person I am trying to help before I go telling her stuff that can be fatal to her fish.
My way works, and is extremely effective, and works top-notch for water that is completely horrible, I didn't just assume she has great tap water and tell her stuff that CAN be fatal to fish.
Maybe try thinking that the person has the worst water on earth just to be safe if you don't know much about the tank, then as you find out the stats tell the person whats safe and not

"Once again, its your tank, your fish, do whatever you want with it. I just objected to the 'NEVER do 50% water changes' part, as there is on basis in fact for saying that" -Boxermom
So this is mainly about the 50%WC, well theres the reason stated above

I guess it would have been smart to tell why I said what I did about the never ever do 50% water changes, but I didn't expect this either


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I have never, ever, heard of anyone losing fish when doing large volume water changes on a regular basis. Its only when its done irreguarly that is usually a problem, as CM stated. And no, I don't have great well water. I have crappy city water that I won't even drink, that's rather high in mineral content. Leaves brown crud in the toilets, sinks, clogs up the pipes, etc. We have bottled water delivered to the house for drinking/cooking, but the fish get regular water from the faucet with a dose of Prime. And oddly enough, I've never lost a single fish that I could trace was due to a large water change. I do 100% weekly water changes on my betta tanks (they're all cycled and filtered so I don't have to do it every couple of days). I've not lost a single one due to water changes.


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

actually a lot of betta breeder do 100% water change. 

http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=751

go to this link and read the 9th paragraph. you will see that i am not the only one that do it. your fish died should be something else was wrong, but not the water change. large water change should be done with betta in small tanks, especially the young and growing ones as i said before because of the hormone they produce to slow other's growth.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

Alrighty then Boxermom, I've had enough. But me (as in me) has lost fish due to large water changes, so I guess I cease to exist?
aaa Bettas are fish, but there really hardy fish

Manda you mind posting your stats?


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is beginning to sound like a "Who's On First?" skit. lol


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

SpoiledFishies said:


> Alrighty then Boxermom, I've had enough. But me (as in me) has lost fish due to large water changes, so I guess I cease to exist?
> aaa Bettas are fish, but there really hardy fish
> 
> Manda you mind posting your stats?


not really. betta can be quite fragile sometimes. especially inbred halfmoons


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

SpoiledFishies, dude I never said that I never do water changes or small ones, I merly said I know of a co worker that has never done a water change. On my 46 gal. I do a 5 gal.water change one week and a 7 gal. the next week. I have never done a 50% water change only because I never saw the need. 25 to 30% is just fine with me and my tank has been up and running for 4 years and has about 25 inches of fish in it. I just say if it works for you then do it. The forums are for people that need guidance not to be told what to do and then get smacked in the face for not do it, come on people, lets just get along :console: :fish: :fun: ;-)


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

pokagon55 said:


> The forums are for people that need guidance not to be told what to do and then get smacked in the face for not do it


that's a very good point. you don't have to listen to anyone on here. time will tell who is right and who is wrong. there is no need to go nuts over the amount of water change. especially there is not a clear right or wrong answer. different method work for different situation. you cannot expect each other to believe in what you believe. time will tell who is right and who is wrong. maybe you are both right or one of you is wrong, who knows. if the method work for you and your fish didn't died, go for it. you can share it with others, but no need to force people to do it. this is a forum and is open to different opinion, but not try to force others to do what you said.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2006)

Wow, how did I miss this knock-down drag out thread? 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I do 50% weekly water changes in all my tanks, no matter what the nitrates are (hardly ever test for them). 2 of my tanks are heavily planted, but I still do 50% water changes weekly. It takes out the nasties and gives the fish some nice clean water, as well as the plants. I fertilize weekly, so I replace the water and ferts weekly. My fish loads are heavy in all my 3 tanks though, so I feel that 50% changes are necessary. I've done these for over a year and never had problems with fish loss, but I do them regularly and my nitrates are always around 15ppm, so it doesn't shock the fish at all.

I am planning to start doing twice weekly 40-50% changes in my African cichlid tank because they are extremely messy fish. I may cut that down to 25% twice weekly, if I feel that 50 is too much. 

New, clean water usually doesn't hurt a fish, so doing 50% changes regularly isn't a problem. Like stated before, its when you do a drastic, sudden large water change that causes problems and even deaths.

I just wanted to add my experience. Its up to the fish keeper as to how to do maintenance and when. All we can do is offer suggestions in a nice friendly way.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

my bettas in a 1 gal got 100 precent changes every two days.
my bettas in 3 gal got 100 precent changes every four days.
my bettas are fine just fine and dandy. if it was bigger than a 3 gallon i would NOT do such a big water change. however i do NOT cycle anything under 5 gallons. honestly, my 5 gallon isnt even cycled. they are fine, i keep everything in check.

my stats
ph--- 7.6
temp---- 78
ammonia--- 0
nitrAtes--- ONLY 10
nitrItes--- zero

why are my nitrAtes only at 10?
isnt that low? if i recall they should be alot higher.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

bump
bump


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

No thats pretty good, between 10-20 is great. Once it starts to get climb some then do a water change/vac to get rid of the nitrates.
Doesn't have to be to big, just keep up on it weekly.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

Normally I don't check for Nitrates cause I do water changes every week and when I do check it, it has always been around 40. This is one that doesn't need to be checked just as long as you do water changes with a gravel vac. it will be just fine.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i am checking for them because i am newly cycled.


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

FWIW, I do at least 50% water changes every week and I haven't ever had a problem with it.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i've went that route before and broke a cycle TWICE.
no thanks


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

Just stick with the way you are doing it now Manda IF you are having no problems, and everything has been fine.
Talked to my lfs dude the day before and I asked him about water changes. He said never do big water changes, just take a few inches off from the top and that will keep the fish healthy.


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## jaw (Nov 22, 2006)

my $.02.

I personally do 40-50% water change on my 55 gallon every week. Though that tank is 4 or 5 years old. I'd say it's an established tank and I think it's pretty difficult to screw up an established tank.

On my 20 gallon long, I do a 10% water change every couple of days. I haven't had any problems yet but it's only a month and a half old.

I've always thought the larger and more established tank you have - the larger the water change you can do.

I read in TFH a while ago that in certain tanks (with a lot of discus) that Jack Thompson does a 10% water change everyday. I can't remember the other percentages that he did. When I go home, I'll look it up.

There are so many different ways to do things - I think you just need to find out what works for you.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2006)

A nitrate reading of 10 is fine. You want to keep it below 40, but that is the highest level you want. 10 is fine for a new tank.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

yay! then my tank is healthy and stable as of now

now i am debating on trying to cycle my 5.5 AGAIN and making it last. it will be the third time i tried my 5.5
i would do a water change.. and it was OVER


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Have you got an HOB filter on it?


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

on the 5.5?
i did have when it was cycled. but after the cycle kept breaking i took it off, since it just houses a betta and snail


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

The only way I know of to break a cycle with a simple water change is to use non-declor water.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Boxermom said:


> The only way I know of to break a cycle with a simple water change is to use non-declor water.


That's what I thought but there's an lfs near me who does regular large water changes on all his tanks with water straight from the hose.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

The low down on water changes is to keep your water stable, Right? So In order to make sure that you do not have a crash from the Kh being full from NitrAtes is to test your water for Kh to find out how big the water sponge is. Because if the kh becomes full and the ph drops then you will have an inactive and even a dieing bacteria which will cause fish to die. The reason that 25 to 30% water changes is recommened is because in most cases the kh is normally around 8 or 12. If you have a low kh then you have to to do water changes more often to keep the water stable and moniter the ph to make sure it doesn't fluctuate. So to sum up, it is ok to do a large water change if the kh is low as this will help keep the water stable, if the kh is high then smaller water changes is ok as the water will be more stable.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> That's what I thought but there's an lfs near me who does regular large water changes on all his tanks with water straight from the hose.


I think it depends in large part on the volume of water being replaced, too. Does he maybe add the declor to the tank and then the water? I know a lot of people who do that and its fine. Although I also know someone that uses it straight from the tap but they have an RO unit installed for the entire house.


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