# PACU finally gone



## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

ok i know that getting those 2 fish in a 55g. was a baddd idea. but i got them, then realized how bad it was, from then on i read about fish b4 i got them, thats the biggest lesson in fish keeping i learned. but i got rid of them ( well like 2 days when i bring them to the lps ) but i like these fish alot! just toooooo big! does anyone have any sugestions on what i could to replace it? i have a 55g and would like a larger fish, not like tetras or anything. thank you for any sugestions! -_ PEVINW _-


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

I would recommend continuing with your purge of fish that are unsuitable for your tanks... Like a brackish Columbian catfish, that needs full marine at adult size. Or the Pangasius catfish, your tank is far to small for them. The Balas do okay in that tank size for awhile, but they are schooling fish, not solo.

Then we can bring up the Pirhana in the 29 gallon, thats another no no.


I would mend what you already have before adding more fish.


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

You still have monster fish in your 55 gal that you should return if possible. And of course the lone piranha in your 29 gal.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

yeah you need to get rid of alot of fish and if i were you i would go with 

4-5 angels

around 4 rams

6 or so dwarf precox rainbowfish

5 koi swordtail or other livebearer- everyone i know i know about all the fry but he can save some in his 29g once he gets rid of the piranna and the rest are good snacks!!!


for fun i would add some ghost shrimp but they will slowly get eaten i thinkl


1 flying fox(if its a planted tank)

I know these are not BIG fish but alot of big fish like oscars need large tanks. However angels get massive as adult so you shud be happy i hope


Note-angels will pair up as they age and u may have to get rid of (return) any pairs as they will probbably be agressive and you dont want to many babies probbably!


sorry for da long post!


This will give you great color,movement, and activity spread all around the tank.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

don't be sorry for the long post. it is a big difference from the short one liners that you usally post. it is very helpful and informative. i like it alot.

that is what i would do if i had a 55. of corse aftre i had my african cichlids and my south american cichlids..lol


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

i am not sure how many rams you would want, but another option would be bandis bandis instead

EDIT i meant to say dario dario


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

yeah...i would prolly do a pair of rams, bolivian if it was me cause they are bigger but if you want color, a pair of blues or golds or even one of each, and a pair of scarlet badis.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

oh i think i would not do bolivian because they get big and they are not as pretty


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

Bolivian rams dont get huge.... Around 4 inches and they can be just as pretty if taken care of. And I would stay away from the Dario Dario as they are very small and shy ....


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Bolivian rams are beautiful fish. Not to mention they are hardier than GBR's.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

i have a bolivian ram that i just traded in and i love him. deff. not as pretty as blues but i've only had him for 3 days so he still hasn't fully colored up yet.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

thanks for the sugestions, as of the piranha, the only reason i put him in there was because i was told it would be ok, piranhas get to be 10'' so 1 inch per gallon, ehhh in a 29 should be fine :lol: but for real on piranhafurry, those people know piranhas, i have a single piranha, not a shoal or a school.


EDIT: sig is not updated either
55g. 
3 clown loachs
1 pleco
1 bala shark


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2007)

no it is NOT ok? one ich per gallon is STUPID he wont be able to turn around and swim in a 29g!


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

I hate that rule... worst ever.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

P's are schooling/shoaling fish.
To really have happy P's they should be in a shoal in a very large tank - ie 6-10 of them in a 180g+ tank would be a good start (300g would be better)...
In a 29 you won't see natural behavior (nor would you in a 55g) -- they are not the vicious eating machines people expect (they are more of a fin/scale nipper - they don't want to kill thier prey, just take a bite eat time it comes around their portion of the river )


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh boy, the one inch per gallon rule? I will say this very clearly.

If you want monster fish...
You first need....
A monster sized Tank.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2007)

I agree with everything stated above.

The one inch per gallon rule is worthless. A 10 inch fish in a 29 gallon tank will not be able to turn around. Its not about gallonage, its about the footprint, the dimensions of the tank. 
Besides this, like already stated, piranhas are shoaling fish....they are most comfortable when kept in groups, therefore you need a very large tank to keep them.
You're heading down a bad path, my friend. Monster sized fish cannot be kept in minimum size tanks.....end of story.


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## musho3210 (Apr 23, 2007)

PEVINE said:


> thanks for the sugestions, as of the piranha, the only reason i put him in there was because i was told it would be ok, piranhas get to be 10'' so 1 inch per gallon, ehhh in a 29 should be fine :lol: but for real on piranhafurry, those people know piranhas, i have a single piranha, not a shoal or a school.
> 
> 
> EDIT: sig is not updated either
> ...



bala sharks can get up to like 20 inches long (there is a HUGE one at the shedd aquarium), clown loaches get pretty bug, and plecos get HUGE, all of them are no good in a 55 gallon tank.

Let me try finding that video of that huge bala, what is your lps/ Petsmart?

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbfTHgu6LSQ&mode=related&search=


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2007)

i've been to the shed aquarium once and i don't remember any of that stuff. now i HAVE to go back. and to think that those huge sharks get sold at our lfs at 1-2 inchers...amazing


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## musho3210 (Apr 23, 2007)

i went there last thursday, there freshwater sections arent that nice, they dont use good lights that bring out the color in the fish . But there saltwater section is great.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

redpaulhus said:


> P's are schooling/shoaling fish.
> To really have happy P's they should be in a shoal in a very large tank - ie 6-10 of them in a 180g+ tank would be a good start (300g would be better)...
> In a 29 you won't see natural behavior (nor would you in a 55g) -- they are not the vicious eating machines people expect (they are more of a fin/scale nipper - they don't want to kill thier prey, just take a bite eat time it comes around their portion of the river )




he doesnt really nip, he kinda rips appart, and elimates the fish i feed him. even the frozen krill. a gold fish lasts about ehh 2.5 secs. same for chilids ( they eat them in the wild so i bring the wild to his tank )

but any of u guys have piranhas? seen a full sized one at the pet store, in a 30 gallon, he turns around just fine, the one at the lps is almost 19, so ehhh they must be doing someting right.

"" bala sharks can get up to like 20 inches long (there is a HUGE one at the shedd aquarium), clown loaches get pretty bug, and plecos get HUGE, all of them are no good in a 55 gallon tank ""

and for that, when they become to big i will sell them to the lps for probly triple what i bought them for. . . . . or find a person with a larger aqurium.


so what fish are ok in a 55g? 3 - 4 neon tetras, maby a few guppys?


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2007)

wow what an ignorant fool...mocking us yet he is so stupid! knows nothing about fish! it will never get to big it will die! at a lfs store here have have one like 10 years only in a like 180g and he is massive


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Actually - I worked with them in college (I majored in oceanography, minored in aquaculture) - one of the professors was doing work with the state on P's and we had a large culture tub (at least 500g) - as well as a few small tanks (75g) -- the difference in behavior was amazing - we were able to study the shoaling behavior of a group of P's (large tank) vs the neurosis of a single P (small tanks) - and observe pretty natural predator/prey relationships.

Unfortunately - if you ask most "experts" online if they have done any actual research with P's -- ie scientific method, truly proper sized tanks, comparing shoal behavior vs single - you'll find out that they haven't - they are "experts" because they say they are -- none of them have any real credentials that can be checked, and most of them are constantly confusing annecdotal evidence with scientific evidence.
(but I'm no expert)

As to what goes well in a 55g tank - are you still asking a serious question ?
The list of fishes that would do well in a 55g tank is longer than the list of members to this forum - if adult size, temperment, and interactions are carefully considered.
A well prepared, biologically balanced 55g tank can handle a fairly large bioload - easily 50-100 small tetras, or 30-50 md tetras.

But a single 10" fish (esp. a heavy bodied fish like a cichlid, catfish, etc) would produce more waste - and use more oxygen - than 75 or even 100 tetras. And a 50g "breeder" tank would be a better choice for such a fish - providing greater surface area (and thus oxygen exchange) -- 55g tanks are a pretty poor design in many ways 
Right now, my 55g tanks have a) hundreds of cichlid and pleco fry or b) colonies of Lake Tang. shell dwellers -- no guppies or neons (and no fish that belong in my 125g+ tanks)

However - I'm also not brilliant enough to put a brackish water columbian shark (catfish) in with soft water bala sharks (or buy a pacu, or sentence a Piranha to a lifetime of solitary confinement) - so what do I know ?

I guess I should stop trying to help people and instead setup inhumane aquariums and lash out at the people who are trying to save my fish from my ignorance.


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

It's a shame that the whole world can not match his brilliance.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2007)

well at least bush can!! what a relief!


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2007)

nvm didnt mean to post............


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

Scientific Name: Pygocentrus nattereri
Common Names: Red Bellied Piranha, Red Belly, Red
Distribution: Abundant and widespread throughout the rivers and water ways of South America. 
Size: 10 inches (Captive), 12 inches (Wild)
Captivity: 20 gallons per nattereri is the common rule.





any of u guys have piranhas?


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2007)

You are not listening AT ALL are you?

Piranhas are shoaling fish....what does this mean?

KEEP THEM IN GROUPS!

I don't know where you got that information, but a 20 gallon tank is nowhere near suitable for a 10 inch predatory fish. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES. Would you keep a great dane in a 5 x 5 room for its entire life? Sure it could fit in there, perhaps survive, but in no way is it happy or content.

Either way, you are reading the information incorrectly. It is not implying you can keep one piranha in a 20 gallon tank, but that they need 20 gallons of space per fish. Meaning if you keep a group of five piranhas, you need a 100 gallon tank BARE MINIMUM. For your sake, I hope you can do basic math.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAVING A FISH SURVIVE AND HAVING THEM THRIVE. The way you're going, they won't even be surviving long.

redpaulus just told you his findings through his actualy scientific research with piranhas. Yet you're going to listen to some ridiculous source with none of your own experience to even back up your opinions, let alone contradict the information we are providing.

You're really starting to get on my nerves....you came here as a complete newb to fishkeeping, yet in the four months since you started you have not gained one ounce of wisdom. Why? Because you go against the information you are given, arguing with more experienced aquarists because we are not giving you the answers you hope for....we're not telling you its fine to subject a living animal to incredibly cramped living conditions in solitary confinement.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2007)

he beleives and acts on what is convienent to him, and he pretends it is OK (just like somone else...pres bush!)


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Swordtail, please try to focus on what this forum is for... Fish.

Keep the politics to yourself.


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## Spencer123 (Aug 26, 2007)

Anybody know if Pirhana ship to ny?


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2007)

what does having pirahana shipped to ny have to do with pacus? not to mention that this thread is almost a month old


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2007)

Spencer123 said:


> Anybody know if Pirhana ship to ny?


First of all, if you want to ask a question please make your own thread about it, rather than posting in an older thread when your question is a bit off-topic.

Now to answer your question, no. Pirahnas are illegal to possess, ship, import, or export in New York unless you have a permit or license to do so. And since these are only given to those who use the fish for scientific purposes (research), no, you could not legally aquire pirahna living in NY.


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