# Hopefully starting up a business in central jersey soonish



## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Hey Guys,

When I have the funds, which will hopefully be soon, I am planning on starting up a pet shop devoted to freshwater fish in central jersey but I have no idea how to find breeders. Can anyone help me with that or give me some general tips about starting a fishy business? Thanks!!


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## arch aquatics (Feb 28, 2012)

dont do it!

best advice i can give after 10 years in it

you dont get rich you dont get famous and most of the time you dont get any sleep!


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## arch aquatics (Feb 28, 2012)

And i forgot to mention that you will no longer see fish with that lustering allure that you have now and they will turn into pie graphs and flow charts and dollar signs


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There are lots of great aquarium clubs in the NE. Join as many as you can. Go to meetings and "network". Do all your "dry research" before you jump in. Start with finding applicable laws, local, state & fed. Get a realistic estimate of "overhead". 

Most of the independent stores near me, both old and new closed for lack of "cash flow". They get caught in a "death spiral" of shorter hours, less inventory and shrinking revenue. Online vendors undercut the dry goods prices and the chain stores undercut prices on common fish. They end up giving advice but not selling much. The ones that remain make additional revenue on aquarium services (setting up and maintaining tanks @ their clients place of business) and selling saltwater and live food. 

Some of the survivors are Petlands, which are franchises that pool advertising.


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

To Arch Aquatics, thank you for your advise. I really do appreciate your advice, especially as an experienced fish keeper. This, however, is an extreme passion of mine and I really can't see myself doing anything else. As for the money factor, I never really expect to get rich off of this, I don't even think I want to. Again though, I really do appreciate your advice.

To emc7, that is a fabulous idea. I've read countless books and magazines about freshwater fish, but I never even considered going to clubs and meeting other people with my same interests. You are fabulous.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

and you could also buy Plecocaine in bulk and resell it........
yeah....i know...shameless plug....


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

It costs over 100k to start it. I talked to a guy who started one and he said that his did really well, and he was making the money back quickly, but his was the only aquarium only store in the town. Just go to aquarium clubs and sell your stuff. It's much cheaper and you don't have to pay rent.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Been there, done that, went bankrupt. Bad idea.


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## MainelyFish (Sep 20, 2012)

I have never started or worked in the fish industry but if you are serious about doing this i think Betta man said it perfectly... Start off selling your stuff to clubs and other people... out of your home and not with a store front and see how that goes and where it takes you... Take the advice of some of the people who have been there and succeeded or failed... See what the did right and what they did wrong...

I am not saying you should or shouldn't do it but do your homework and ease into it and make sure you don't have to many of local LFS around you because that sounds like it could be your biggest obstacle..

You see it all the time where certain people try to start something and it doesn't go then along comes someone who learns from the failures of other and gets it right...

Good luck! That's my opinion for what its worth.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have been doing this for 40 years...this is what i have found....breed what you can of your own stock..barbs , danios,livebearers,angels and other cichlids...corydoras and plecos as well...
do not count on making a dime with the clubs...club member believe that if you have a shop you should be paying them to take all that junk off of your hands for you...
all of these years that i have been a member of a club and selling fish food and i have sold a total of 6 pounds to other members...and 4 pounds of that was to one guy...
forget clubs ; those are the cheapest characters on the planet...
there are 100 ways to make money...you just have to figure out what you want to do and how to do it..
even here on fishforums i have sold less than 25 pounds of Plecocaine in all of the years i have been offering it....not because it isn't any good ; because it is awesome... but it's because i am a member of the forum and many feel that i am out to cheat them or that there must be something wrong with the food....
whatever the reason i would suggest to try not to do business with friends and aquaintences....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There is a couple in my club that started up a garage fish store. Weekends and by appointment. They have all the paperwork and licenses so the importers and wholesalers will sell to them, they advertise on the club boards and online. I don't think they make much, but it supports their hobby. 

Our club president simply bought an existing Petland that was closing because its owner wanted out and he's doing okay, but working 80 hour weeks in his "retirement". 

I also see whole walmart aquarium systems on craigslist and occasionally the equipment from a store. Picking up an existing operation might speed things up.

One of the most successful store around closed after a move forced by losing their lease. I would suggest you buy the building to have a chance in the long term. .


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I agree with club members being cheap. But that is where local breeders are. We sell our fish cheap and we have 2 or 3 stores stocking with $1 / bag fish and plants from our monthly auctions. We have people who sorted their guppies and plecoes by sex to stop the spawning until they work out something with a store.

The thing is, local breeders don't make enough fish to stock a high-volume store. And only a high-volume store can make money, so you end up using wholesalers and importers and large florida fish farms and stocking the same fish as every other store. Buyers who want something different aren't even looking in stores, they are just going straight to online.


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Thank you, thank you, thank you, so much for all of your advise everybody. I do have another question, I have no experience with saltwater tanks, would it be a good idea to give them a try and then stock them at a store?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

IME, SW stores are more numerous and more successful than FW stores. SW seems to be more profitable, but you really need to know what you are doing. SW stock is really expensive to kill.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Try providing fish to fish stores.


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Betta Man, I think that providing fish to fish stores is a great idea, bud i don't know how to go about doing it. Do you have any suggestions? 

EMC7 You're right, I definitely don't want to kill fish in the first place, but salt water fish are definitely the most expensive to kill so I think I'll wait on that.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

select what species you may want to breed....consider those that are always in demand and yet will bring a reasonable price.....no sense in going through all of the expense of breeding and raising a fish that will only bring you 50 cents...
you could also select a species that is less common and more expensive...they will bring in a better margin of profit....


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

So... another question. What do you all think about starting a business in a mall to hopefully attract new customers constantly?


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I would start out with the petstore idea. Try going into an lfs and look at the fish they have. Cross those of your list. Pick an easy fish to breed and raise and ask them if they'd be interested in buying those fish IF you can successfully breed them. I have chosen betta Imbellis for mine and am waiting for the store to contact me on the price of how much they'll pay. Betta imbellis are rare fish so I am hoping for at least 10 bucks a fish, but I'll try for 15. Betta fry are some of the hardest fw fry to raise, but I already have them and have decent experience breeding them. Try choosing a fish you have kept or one that is closely related to fish you have kept. If you have kept some apistogrammas, you could try those. I have heard they are easy to breed and the fry aren't that hard to raise.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Alot of this has to depend on your demographics. The shop I work at has the market cornered. The only competition we have is the chain stores (petco and petsmart). The nice thing about Ak is people start off the hobby at these chains and get bored. They want more exotic rare fish and better equipement. We specialize in just that. Rare expensive fish and high end equipement and we are the only local shop in town. That translates into us being beyond busy. We dont even advertise because we know that we couldnt handle the volume! We do get outsourced by the internet on dry goods but rarely on fish. It cost so much to ship to AK and most shippers shudder when they realize the logistics of shipping north especially now that its winter. 

The point is:
Research your local aquarium stores. If you have tons of other local stores that have been around for years...its going to be a rough start. You have to find ways to make your customers shop at your store. That should be realistic prices, knowledge that puts you above the others, amazing customer service, and willing to go the extra mile. Having rare fish stock will help alot. If you plan on breeding staple fish and competing with the chains... dont even try.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Stay away from saltwater. You won't make a dime. You see the prices and think there's money to be made, but in reality the profit margin is razor thin, and any losses will cost you all of it ( and there WILL be losses ).

If I were going to open a new strore in a populous area, I would make it a specialty store caryying those fish that can't be otherwise found locally. There is a guy on Aquabid called thewetspot who does fine business by importing only the newest, rarest, and most highly sought-after "wish fish" that you'll never see in a local store. Buy from him and resell to your local market and you'll do okay. 

Mall??
Ay-yi-yi...
You'll be stuck with a massive lease and sky high rent. You'll have a constant stream of browsers getting in your way all day and never buying anything. 
On the other hand, you'll do okay since mall stores get a lot of visitors. On the downside, your prices will have to be the highest in town, and I can tell you from experience that you'll lose most of your potential business because of that.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Busy malls are nasty landlords. They get a % of sales,so if your sales don't meet their threshold in any particular time period, you are out and something they hope will be more profitable is in. Unbusy malls are time bombs. You never know when the landlord will neglect to pay the electric company or save money by turning off the heat at night. Since fish are PITA to move, you want to be as stable as you can. I think the only sensible play for a mall store is to buy an existing Petland or similar. But I could see getting a seasonal kiosk in a busy mall to sell a few betta and promote your store or online business, or what ever you decide to do.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

We have very few LPS in my area- 3 that I can think of and all are very small. One has about 10-12 tanks max. 

Twice now I have seen potentially beyond awesome stores come into town. One had the store painted and all of the banks of tanks set up. My friend and I were drooling with the possibilities. Went out of business before the door even opened. The other one didn't make it any farther. It is my understanding that just prior to opening the landlord hiked the rent, and the guy had already put his life into it, didn't have enough to restart elsewhere.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

We had one new one that closed before it opened, and 2 that were only open a few months. They couldn't afford to keep operating long enough for customers to find them. I think everyone underestimates the start-up costs, the ongoing costs and the time it takes to start making money.

Even if you buy a property, you have to look out for hidden costs. Old tax liens, out of code electrical and so on.


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## Maine_Fish (Apr 7, 2012)

Starting a new business is easier said than done. It sounds fun and glamorous...but it's a heck of a lot of work...and very risky.

Approximately 50% of new businesses fail in their first year; something like 70% fail within 5 years. And those that do manage to succeed often operate at a loss for their first year or two. Personally, I wouldn't even think about opening a new store (in a commercial retail space) unless I had an extra $50,000-$100,000 (that I could afford to lose). But, that's just me.

I can think of only two successful fish shops (other than the local Petco and Petsmart types) in my area. One is owned and operated by a guy who's been in business for 40 years. My guess is that he owns his building, so he's got no mortgage/rent to worry about. If what he tells me is true, he's not been making any money on fish the past few years or so. His strategy has been to simply break even during the economic downturn...while shops all around have closed...with the hope that he will be the last man standing if/when the economy picks up. He's resorted to adding other products to his store to survive (puppies, small animals, etc.). He offers a wealth of knowledge about fish...I hope he makes it.

The other is a saltwater shop. It's one of the most unusual places I've ever seen. It looks like a convenience store. And, when you walk in, you see soft drinks, beer, cigarettes, snacks, etc. on one side. On the other side...saltwater fish tanks. I have no doubt his business would not survive on fish sales alone (much like the first guy).

While I would love nothing more than to see you succeed in this venture, I would also hate to see you face financial ruin as well. My advice (for whatever it's worth) is to do your homework, and find a way to start off small, with the goal of working your way up to your own shop if all goes well.

I really do wish you the best. Good luck!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think it may be worst than that. You could lose 500k + 50k a month for as long as you can stand it. I want to see more successful stores, but I don't want anyone to lose their savings or go into debt for a failed attempt. take your time, plan everything, get help and don't leap until you know for sure you can land on your feet.


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## bettatail (Nov 3, 2012)

only selling the fish and the equipment, you are not be able to compete with big chain stores, provide what big chain stores can't, you have to to go more advance and selling the images and design.
a store full of nice planted display tanks is the "wow" factor that no other big chain stores can compete.

my tank is a planted, but I don't do the scape. Every plant in this tank is easy plant and I let them grow, only to trim when certain kind is too much.
still catch the eyes of any visitors, they all "wow", not for the fish but the whole view.


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## bettatail (Nov 3, 2012)

grogan said:


> Alot of this has to depend on your demographics. The shop I work at has the market cornered. The only competition we have is the chain stores (petco and petsmart). The nice thing about Ak is people start off the hobby at these chains and get bored. They want more exotic rare fish and better equipement. We specialize in just that. Rare expensive fish and high end equipement and we are the only local shop in town. That translates into us being beyond busy. We dont even advertise because we know that we couldnt handle the volume! We do get outsourced by the internet on dry goods but rarely on fish. It cost so much to ship to AK and most shippers shudder when they realize the logistics of shipping north especially now that its winter.
> 
> The point is:
> Research your local aquarium stores. If you have tons of other local stores that have been around for years...its going to be a rough start. You have to find ways to make your customers shop at your store. That should be realistic prices, knowledge that puts you above the others, amazing customer service, and willing to go the extra mile. Having rare fish stock will help alot. If you plan on breeding staple fish and competing with the chains... dont even try.


grogan, now I see you, I just join this forum, how is your tank? and the co2 system serving ok?


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

That's why taxes need to be lower. So we can have more fish stores!!! I know someone who rents the side room of a carwash place and his business is doing okay. He maintains the carwash's fish tank and when the fish breed, he gets to keep the fry and raise them. Last time, there were some cichlids that had fry. I think they were jack dempsys.


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## bullseyejoey (Aug 30, 2012)

Having a fish store is one of my dreams. (And yes I have a lot of dreams because I'm young). I think it would be fun but of course that's my opinion now. I also like the idea mentioned about selling an uncommon fish to a fish store. That can make you a good profit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

go to your local fish store and offer him some nice young L-46 Hypancistris Zebra...if you are lucky he will offer you $50....but he will sell them for $200...
this is a cutthroat business.....you have to be ready for anything...and the ghetto mentality doesn't work...


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Unrelated, but my beautiful Guppy (who unfortunately died in the birthing process  ) just gave birth to 20+ baby Guppies!









Anyways, Thank you everyone for all of your knowledgable advice. I've learned so much so far. I'm sorry, I forget who said this, but how should I go about contacting thewetspot? I googled it and it seems like just a store, not a breeder. And to everyone who says that you need to go above and beyond to make this work, I'm trying to do this as we speak, creating brochures on every fish I'm sure I want to sell giving basics, details, and how to set up the fish in it's new aquarium. I have many other ideas but if anyone thinks of something, please tell me. I would love any advice


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You are already doing step 1: learn as much as possible for books, magazines and online passive sources
You are into step 2: learn from people. There is a lot of knowledge that isn't necessarily written down. You ask on chat boards, you go to club meetings, you work for skilled mentors and correspond with those "in the know". Most fish people, even the most anti-social, will cheerfully talk about their obsession. People who you'd expect to overwhelmed: college professors, Public Aquarium directors, renown authors are often happy to steal a few moments for an e-mail or chat with someone trying to learn. It never hurts to send an e-mail to ask if a person with correspond with you or refer you to someone who will.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

bettatail said:


> grogan, now I see you, I just join this forum, how is your tank? and the co2 system serving ok?


Hey! Hahaha I didn't even connect the dots. Its working great now and my tank is growing out of control. Glad to see you joined our forum. Are you still building setups?


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Hey you all, so it looks like plans have changed and soonish for me now means a few years from now but I will begin breeding fish in Nassau County area of Long Island NY starting in January so If you are in the area and are interested in buying or even want me to ship to you, I'm going to be breeding Angelfish. They will probably be mixed breeds but if you want a pic of what one of the parents will look like, check out my profile picture. He is just about the most beautiful koi angelfish I've ever seen and I love him to death


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There does seem to be an endless demand for angels. And you want to keep a fish you really enjoy watching.


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