# Tank Envy!!



## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

Oh my my my. I have been on here for less than 24 hours and already I am getting a serious case of tank envy. I am dreaming of moving up to a 55 gallon but I am not quite sure where to start. After spending the better part of today going through discussions here is what I have come up with. Please correct me if my info is wrong:
~I will be better off with 2 separate filters and always go up, so I am thinking of 2 Marineland Penguin filters each rated for 30 gallons
~200 Watt heater (not undergravel) does anyone have advice on the best? Has anyone heard of Visitherm?
~ I will need a tetra air pump (rated for 60 gallon). Ok stupid question, what do I do with this? :-(I do not currently have one in my 10 gallon
~Air line tubing, to go with the above pump I assume?
~Airstones, someone recommended Hagen Elite. What is this and what do they do?
~Gravel vac (which I currently do not have either)

I want to have a more natural tank with live plants ( I currently have some fakey ones) and some more Mopani wood just because I love the way it looks. What is the best plant to start with? Do I need special bulbs?
Also, I want to do away with the unnaturally colored gravel and go more natural here too. Is that something that Petco will sell?
Any and all help greatly appreciated!
:fish::fish::fish:


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## FlatLine (Dec 30, 2008)

Well, just to share with you some of my setup, I too want to have a more natural environment. My main tank is a 29gal with 2 kirbensis, and 2 marble hatchets (eventually to be 10). I wanted a sand substrate for a natural look, and because I was going to have my corys in there.... The sand I used was pool filter sand, it's really cheap, $10 for a 50lb bag and I've used maybe 1 quarter of the bag. I then added a couple pieces for mopani and I have some nice look freshwater type rocks in there as well. I eventually will plant the tank, but currently have some decent fake plants. I then have a good sized air pump that I use for all my tanks, I have a distribution block with valves to adjust the air flow, and an air stone in each tank to provide some bubbling in the tanks. 

I also have a Marineland Penguin which I love, a lot, did I mention I love it? The Bio-wheel is awesome, and you can run more than one filter in it, so when you change one in a month, the other still has a good bacteria colony. Plus, in the beginning, there was enough room for me to have a filter bag with gravel from one of my other tanks. This way I was able to cycle the tank a lot faster.

I still have my doubts about *needing* an air pump. I like it, but it does not look natural, there should be enough surface tension being broken by the filter to provide enough oxygen for fish and to help with removing gases from the water. But, better safe than sorry.

P.S. I forgot to answer some of the questions, I definitely think you're on the right track, I would check out you LFS for some of your needs first, and then you can always goto Petco, they will have some more natural gravel, as I almost picked it up.... If you do go, stay aways from "live sand".


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> Has anyone heard of Visitherm


visitherms and visitherm stealths are fine. IMO they are about the cheapest "decent" heaters. House brands and non-submersibles are cheaper, but not as nice. 

A 55 gallon is very deep tank. To have anything but "low-light" plants you will need a special and expensive lighting fixture. The "default" lights (the one that comes in a tank kit) with a daylight bulb are fine for java fern, java moss and other real low light plants. 

An airpump is a good thing to have on hand. In a crisis, adding extra aeration can save your fish. But having two hang-on-back filters is really enough for every day use. Air pumps can drive air-stones, bubble-wands, and my favorite, sponge filters. Having a sponge filter running in your big tank that you can move to a new tank is a great way to "instant cycle" a quarantine/hospital/fry tank when you suddenly discover you need one.

air stones and bubble wands just break the air pumped in into little bubbles.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Most stores carry natural gravel but sometimes run out of it because it is more popular than green, orange and purple. 

A 200 W heater is fine if your room is within 10 degrees of the tank's desired temp.

A gravel washer with a long hose is a good thing to have, as is a new 5 gallon plastic bucket (about $5 at home depot or walmart).


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I have a 55g that I recently revived (had been stored dry for a few years).

I put two Marineland Emperor 400 filters on it (each rated for 400 gallons per hour, 800 total), a big Tetra air pump (I think it is a Whisper 60), and I am about to get a new heating system. Leaning towards two 200w Stealths or Jaeger Ebo.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

Hate to break it to you bud, but penguin has been discontinued for awhile now. If you go to the marineland site you will see that.

Go with emperor.

You will love the crystal clean water that is a result of the carbon that is in the filter.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Uhh, no they're not. Penguin is one of the best-selling lines of HOB filters.
http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdetail.aspx?id=2054&cid=2006&mid=3226


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

I went on Craigs list and think that I may have found a pretty sweet deal on a 40 gallon with accessories ($75), just waiting to hear what type they are and then see what will be left for me to buy. Looks like on the Marineland website, both the penguin the emperor are pretty similar, the smaller emperor models just has 2 filters, where you need to upgrade to a much larger penguin to get the double filter. I had an eclipse system for quite some time a few years ago and did like the bio-wheel. 
Guess I will just wait and see what becomes of the craigs list thing...
I guess once I get semi set up I will be looking for low light plants to add, yaaay greenery!!
With the 40 gallon will I still need to return my pleco?
Any good fish suggestions? I have 2 small girls so active and colorful would be nice. I got a good tip about getting dwarf pygmy coridora (in lieu of the pleco)...
Thanks again!


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Unfortunately, the common plecos grow several feet long. You could probably make due in a 40g tank for a while, but only if you had plans for a much much bigger tank down the line.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

No I think 40 will be my limit...so there goes my new little bud. Man, they need to offer a "if our associates dont know what they are talking about you can return it" 360 day guarantee... I just saw pics of the tank, it looks like it was really not taken care of very well. Wondering if I should just get it and clean the (lyme? white crusty stuff) off of it and start new. Just the 40 gallon at Petco was like $120 w/o accessories...they sell safe chemicals to clean that off don't they?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I have found Petco to be one of the most expensive places to buy anything type of chemical or equipment. PetSmart has much lower prices on tanks (usually) as does a smaller chain called Pet Supplies "Plus."

A 40g is not the most common tank size. They are a nice tank, don't get me wrong, but they are not nearly as popular as a 10, 20H, 29, or 55, which you can find at most Wal-Marts nice and cheap. I have quite often seen the 40g priced far higher than 55g tanks. I'm not entirely sure why this is but I am guessing simply economies of scale.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

hmm, guess I will just have to do some more digging around with the 40. I was checking out the 55 and I think that is just a little bigger than I have the space for... I have been buying all of the little extras for my 10 gallon online at petmountain.com they seem to have quite a bit of stuff. Can get everything that I want/need but the tank/hood and stand for under $125.00.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

Any thoughts on acrylic vs glass?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Well, there is a lot of hatred of acrylic tanks, and I'm not really sure why. I don't currently have one but my very first tank was an acrylic.

They're easy to ship, I'm told that they are less likely to leak, and they can come with features like curved corners that would be rather expensive (although possible) to do with glass tanks. You can also see through acrylic more than glass (more translucent? is that the term?) but the acrylic is softer than glass so you will have to be careful with brushes and the like.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Acrylics do get scratched up (you can fill the scratches but you have to keep doing it, watch the people at the public aquariums), but the weight savings is nice, more so in larger tanks. But for a small, common size tank like a 55, glass will be much cheaper.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

So I am going to get the 40gallon, I have priced it all out and I am so excited!!! I am have been looking into plants, decorations etc and think I will do a gravel bottom. My plan is to do quite a bit with the mopani wood and natural stone. My question is this, I like the looks of java fern and also the tiger lotus. I know that I wont be able to plant them in the gravel but was thinking I could put the rhizome in between the cracks of the wood and let them get comfy in the tank that way. Will this work? Or do I need to tie them? Also does anyone has any good suggestions for fish? I have 2 little girls so anything active and/or colorful would be good!


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Placing the rhizome in the crack may work, I'm not really sure.

When I set up the 55g tank, I used a product called First Layer Laterite that was recommended to me here and on other boards. You mix it in with the first inch of gravel. It is the red, volcanic soil type stuff that is supposedly full of nutrients that will encourage strong root growth for plants.

As for fish, the possibilities are endless. It really depends on what you think your daughters might like. Probably best to stick with some bright and colorful fish that will school. I happen to like Serpae Tetras for that purpose. Ten or more and they won't be too nippy for your other fish. Another option might be Tiger Barbs. Very interesting fish.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

If I plant them on the wood do I still need to add fertilizer to the tank? How does that work? I have never used plants before.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

Also what type of fish go well with the tetra or barbs that you mentioned above?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Rhizome in woodcrack will certainly work 

You should consider adding to your schools. Zebra danios and glofish are the same species, so I'd recommend adding some more of both. Maybe 2 more of each? They'll zip around the tank together.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

*Sorry for the long post*

so I have been doing some major research for the 40 gallon before going ahead with everything. :chair::chair:I will probably get my tank set up, then add plants and give it a few weeks to cycle and THEN add some fishy fun. I am going to move all of the fish currently in my 10 gallon down (and probably fill the 10 gallon with guppies for the girls). I do have a few questions:
~Many of the fish I am looking at are different breeds of tetra/danio, do I have to get 6+ of each breed or will they get along and school ok if I get just 2-3 of each breed that I am looking at (black skirt, bleeding heart, congo, emperor, penguin,rummynose,silvertip). 
~Also I wanted to get a few kissing gouramis, I know I need a group of 3+ but can they all be the same sex or does it not matter?
~If I get platys do they need to be in a group of all one sex?
~If I wanted to add a beta fish would it get along with all of these breeds?:console:
~Lastly, am I pushing it if I add a rainbow shark
~Ok lastly for real, does anyone have any experience with a gardneri killifish? Are they totally impossible to find?


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## StripesAndFins (Dec 31, 2008)

207lauras said:


> ~Many of the fish I am looking at are different breeds of tetra/danio, do I have to get 6+ of each breed or will they get along and school ok if I get just 2-3 of each breed that I am looking at (black skirt, bleeding heart, congo, emperor, penguin,rummynose,silvertip).


They do best in groups. If you keep them in groups of less than 5-7, you wont see as they will most likely be hiding and they will feel uncofortable in a small group. You may also notice clamped fins and this shows stress.



207laurus said:


> ~Also I wanted to get a few kissing gouramis, I know I need a group of 3+ but can they all be the same sex or does it not matter?


I dont think you should get any kissing gouramis as they can get pretty big, but if you get any, then be sure to get only one because they are kind of aggresive against each other. All in all, it would be best if kept singly, if at all.



207laurus said:


> ~If I get platys do they need to be in a group of all one sex?


If you dont want to be overflowing with fry, then get all males. If you dont care, then put them in groups of 1 male to 3-4 females. This way the males wont be stressing the females too much.



207laurus said:


> ~If I wanted to add a beta fish would it get along with all of these breeds?:console:


I am not sure about this oen, but i think a female would. Males are aggresive mainly to their own kind, but also to some others. Although females arent as colorful as males, they are probably a better choice to get if any at all.



207laurus said:


> ~Lastly, am I pushing it if I add a rainbow shark


I am not entirely sure about this one either, but i think that you could add 1 and only 1 to your tank. Rainbows and other closely related (like Epalzeorhynchos bicolor, E. siamensis, and E. kalopterus and some others) will fisht but these ones wont fight as much with other fish of other genera and families.



207laurus said:


> ~Ok lastly for real, does anyone have any experience with a gardneri killifish? Are they totally impossible to find?


I personnally have never had a Gardner's killifish but there is someone on the forum who has one, i think his username is Physiognamy. If you have any questions try seeing if he can help. If you cant find them at your LFS, and i am not surprised as most killis are hard to get, You could try finding a killifish specialist. I have never done this so someone else will have to fill you in with the rest of the details.

Hope this helps


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> Ok lastly for real, does anyone have any experience with a gardneri killifish? Are they totally impossible to find?


 I have a couple different kinds of these. They are a great "beginner's killiefish". They are big enough to eat flake and small pellet food (cichlid fry food) and even though the appriciate live food, unlike the little killies, they don't have to have it. They are beautiful, big enough to see and their eggs don't need any special care. You can pull mops or just leave them in a heavily planted tank and you will get fry. I've never seen these in stores. I get mine from others in my fish club. But you can also try aquabid.

One of my favorite sources.

http://www.djramsey.com/tropfish/fp__gardneri_albino.htm


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

*Killifish*

So I have been researching killifish online and I am finding 2 totally different suggestions for keeping them. Some sites say that they are very peaceful and do well in a community tank with other peaceful fish and other websites are saying that they are extremely aggressive fish and should only be in a tank with the same species... If I put 3 of them in a community tank with 1 male and 2 females would they be ok towards one another and the other fish in the tank? I am assuming that a betta would NOT get along with these fish as they are a bit flashy and have more of a fancy tail than other species I will be keeping. Any advice would be great, I dont want to spend a lot of $$ and not know what I am doing!!
Also, I am probably sticking my foot in my mouth here as I am not sure how people feel about this but I have a question about fry.:-( If my fish breed and I dont want to keep the babies do I just leave them in the tank and let nature do it's thing? Can I bring any babies that are strong enough to survive to the lfs?


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

i would suggest going with bigger filters then you originally planned. and go with aqua clear filters rather then penguin. much better


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

what is the difference in the filters? Do I need to do 2 filters, one on each side? I was going to go with 2 penguin 150B models but I am open to suggestions...the less I have to hang off of the back the better!


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

better to go with a single ac110. only need to hang one filter, nd its more then powerful enough to keep the tank clear. and with the ac110 you can customize the bio filtration.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

ok I am a dork, what do you mean customize the bio filtration? I have had some experience with the marinaland eclipse system, the filter used both the bio wheel and a cartridge. Right now all I have is a 10gallon aqueon setup and that has a cartridge...


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

the aqua clear 110 (formerly ac500) uses a big rinseable sponge for the mechanical filtration. that alone will save you tons of money that you would spend on replacement filters. the sponge sits in a filter basket. on top of the sponge you can add all your bio elements. (ceramic rins, crushed coral, ect.)


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

ok, now I get it. thanks for the help!


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

*aquaclear filters?*

I just googled aqua-clear and a bunch of articles came up about a design flaw, something about the water flowing over the medium and not through it so the water doesnt actually get cleaned or pass through the medium to pick up the good bacteria.. has anyone noticed this or is it really a non-issue?


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

no problem. ac110 is just about the best hob filter you can get. and they last forever. after using them, i would never suggest a penguin/emporor filter to anyone again


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sometimes a clogged or crooked aquaclear will leak water out the back. It can empty gallons onto the floor. This is the main thing I know wrong with them. People either love them or hate them.

I haven't kept gardneri with any other fish. I've seen them called community fish, but I don't know. Like bettas, I think they would coexist if there is enough area and cover (plants) for them to stake out their own corner. If you pull mops, you get lots of fry. But they do eat their eggs, so you get fewer if you leave them. Many fish will eat eggs and fry and left in the tank you will get many fewer surviving fry. Some kilies are very nasty, but its a big family.


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

i know guys that have been running them for over 15 years with no problem besides the sponge needing to be replaced every 5 years or so. i personally have had some for 3 years with no problems. in fact, ive never heard of anyone with the issue you mentioned


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I don't particularly like Aquaclear filters. They are made of low-grade plastics, they clog, they have weak motors, and they come in an ugly box. Plus, I happen to strongly believe in the Bio-Wheel concept.

Also if you ever need a part, Hagen customer service is basically non-existent whereas Marineland will send you anything you need, no questions asked.


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

To each his own. Its been proven time and time again that the bio filtration alone is far superior to the bio wheel. Not to mention the flow tate and the fact that you don't need to buy new filters evry week.

Ill stick to the quality product with twice the efficiency, you can keep the cheap junk. Lol.

But like I said. To each his own


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

Btw. That wasn't directed at you com. Ore anyone in particular for that matter. So I apologize in advance if you thought it was.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

After checking into options I do think I will go with the bio-wheel filter, my question is should I go with 2 penguin filters (each rated for 30 gallons) or with 1 larger emperor filter rated for 60 gallons (This will be going in my new 40 gallon tank) Does it matter if I have 1 or 2? The less I have crowding up the back the better I think. Also, how do air stones work? I really like the look of them but have absolutely NO experience there...


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

I think after being glued to my google for the past week I have decided on what to stock the soon to be new 40 galon tank with:
~Add 4 zebra danios (to go with the 2 I have already)
~Add 4 glo-fish (to go with the 2 I have already)
~4-6 platy (not sure which kind yet)
~4-6 dwarf corydora
~Transfer my pleco (for as long as I can keep him, I know he may outgrow it)

I would ideally like to add a betta fish and possibly a few rosy barbs, is this pushing it??Any input is greatly appreciated!!


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

also why does petco's website say that i shouldnt put a pleco in a tank with plants?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> shouldn't put a pleco in a tank with plants


 Plecos eat vegetable matter. They will usually eat algae and sinking food, but if they get hungry they can nibble on plants. I would try it and only remove the pleco or the plants if they take more damage that you can stand. I know lots of people with planted tanks and plecos. 

What are your tank's dimensions? You can keep more fish if its 4' long than if its 3'.

In general, I always prefer 2 filters to one, but the penguins have 2 cartridges and 2 biowheels, so you can change half at a time. And you will have less evaporation will one filter.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

many plecos that eat algae will keep your plants clean.but when they run out of algae they will scrape the plant leaves.all plecos are pretty much omnivores.they are primarily scavengers.but there are many species of pleco that are more carnivorous than others and need more meat in their diets.these plecos will not bother your plants at all though.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

Would a gardneri killifish get along with a betta? 
How many should you have together? I read 1 male to 2 females but do not know if this is accurate.. Unfortunately the tank is only 3 feet long so I am a little limited that way


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

killiefish are commonly kept in plastic shoeboxes or small 1-2 gallon tanks.the largest killie is found in lake tanganyika in africa.it can reach 6 inches or more.
gardneri can be kept in pairs,trios or groups.they don't get very big so you can actually put 6 or 8 in a 3 ft tank.and they should get along just fine with your betta.i have never had a problem with them with other fish.


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