# Anyone been paying attention to the Wikileaks stuff going on recently?



## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't know what to really think about all of this. With all the videos and everything about what's really happening in the middle east, it's hard to have respect for our army and government anymore. What do you guys think?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I haven't delved into it. I respect our armed forces, but not necessarily their leadership or the civilian contractors they hire. When you look at how much money went into Iraq and Afghanistan and how little got accomplished (especially material stuff like roads, water and hospitals), its obvious our money got diverted. Combat forces aren't likely to be good project managers, but we could have sent in more clerks and auditors. The lack of record keeping is kind of ridiculous in this day and age. I can understand trying to buy peace and security, and if thats the case we should write that down and not say "we don't know where the money went". I think maybe we really don't know where the money went. 

I'm not sure this all volunteer army is a good thing. A real draft with few exceptions would mean causalities that people in office and the voting booths would care about. Its really unfair that you can join the army at 16, but can't vote. If you volunteer, you should get 3 votes. We should draft everyone, women, gays, baby boomers, Medicare users. In this county, the young are invisible until the graduate from college and get a good job. That is happening later and later. We lose our young to car wrecks, drugs, murder and war and just shrug like we expect it. It just makes the 'demographic time bomb' of retiring boomers worse. We won't have enough workers to fund social security. 

In a democracy we have get the government we deserve. Low voter turnouts mean that citizens are 'opting out' of having a say. When that happens, the lobbyists and their amoral corporate clients start to wield the lion's share of influence. There are dedicated public servants in office trying to make this county a better place now and in the future, but there are also plenty who are lining up their next job or whose main goal is reelection.

Its hard to respect our government. One hour of c-span will kill any ideals you have about how it works. On the other hand, we've gone 200 years with only one serious violent internal conflict. Can you say the same for any other nation? I think you have to respect the framework and if you don't like current details, get off your chair and get informed, then get involved.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I tried to use paypal yesterday and couldn't because the wikileak supporter scumbags managed to shut it down for several hours. They are nothing but terrorists.
Wikileaks itself is a terrorist organization from where I'm sitting, and the global trouble it's stirring up for all nations is going to nearly start a war before it's over, I think.
Mr Assange should be executed as a global terrorist as soon as possible, and the soldier who sent him the info in the first place should be executed immediately for wartime treason and global terrorism.
I don't care that the law, as written, never considered this sort of thing and doesn't explicitly allow for capital punishment of these crimes. We need to make some examples of these scumbags at once, before anyone else gets any bad ideas.

As for the info in the leaks themselves, well, that's the way the world really works, like it or not. Politics is dirty business, and anyone who ever thought otherwise is a fool. Things have to happen to make other things happen, and while sometimes those things are stomach-turning, the alternatives are unthinkable.


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## Cam (Nov 9, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> I tried to use paypal yesterday and couldn't because the wikileak supporter scumbags managed to shut it down for several hours. They are nothing but terrorists.
> Wikileaks itself is a terrorist organization from where I'm sitting, and the global trouble it's stirring up for all nations is going to nearly start a war before it's over, I think.
> Mr Assange should be executed as a global terrorist as soon as possible, and the soldier who sent him the info in the first place should be executed immediately for wartime treason and global terrorism.
> I don't care that the law, as written, never considered this sort of thing and doesn't explicitly allow for capital punishment of these crimes. We need to make some examples of these scumbags at once, before anyone else gets any bad ideas.
> ...


Pretty much sums up how I feel about all this, seems like another terrorist act to bring down crap feelings and hate upon the Untied States of America. Like he said, I wouldn't even doubt if killing goes on over this.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Flash drives and microSD cards are really small now. Its just too easy to copy info. Our government need to get decent computer security so it doesn't have to do full body searches on everyone leaving the building.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

In my opinion, the leaks themselves are not really the cause for concern. Most of them were relatively harmless, albeit offensive and not very politically correct. 

The problem is Assange's continuing desire to flout authority, his support of those who are now hacking those companies that stopped supporting the site (putting ALL of our personal info at risk), and his desire to expose everything that is classified for a reason. There is NO government in the world that operates how he thinks they should, so I don't know why he thinks this will change anything. His people sent out copies of new info to thousands of people, encrypted and to be released if they so choose. 

Some people call him a patriot because the "people have a right to know". Pffft. The government has never told us everything and never will - and with good reason. The American Public as a whole is not responsible. We are not prepared to have these secrets told to us and not expect our enemies to somehow get a hold of them. 

And just to be curious, Snyderguy, what is "really happening in the Middle East" that you are so concerned about? The military itself is not at fault... not even its "leaders" can be completely blamed. The President is Commander-in-Chief, and the legislative bodies approve or disapprove his decisions. But we wonder why there is turmoil among the military, when there are threats of overturning DADT, which will disrupt the workings of the military during a crucial time of war, which is not the time to be playing around with things that aren't broken in the first place, and how all of us military families almost lost future pay raises for the next few years, not to mention increased costs of health insurance (for those who DO pay our of pocket). 

If we should be blaming anyone, I would definitely say those on Capitol Hill and those who voted them in. I find it not only unfair but also somewhat insulting that those who determine how much my husband gets paid (or if it doesn't change at all) are the same ones who would never give themselves a pay cut or a stop of raises. They aren't included in "government workers" even though that's what they are in the strictest sense of the word. Would they even listen if their constituents cried out for them to take a pay cut, considering that they are supposed to do what we ask for? Who knows for certain, but my guess would be no. Politicians just aren't as honest as they should be.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

hXcChic22 said:


> In my opinion, the leaks themselves are not really the cause for concern. Most of them were relatively harmless, albeit offensive and not very politically correct.


I will disagree here. We have informants overseas that are getting information for the U.S. government. We have informants in Russia. Places like that. What do you think would happen to all those hundreds of informants if their information was released to the Russian government and their cover was blown? What do you think would happen to the relationship between Russia and the U.S. if they were discovered? It has the potential the to erupt a 3rd world war, if you ask me. Call me radical, but that's my opinion. 

This man has done, and is doing, more harm than we know. You can tell how serious the situation is because the U.S. government is actually taking action to stop it. You know how I know all the conspiracy theories about 9/11 are false? Because the theories went viral and the creators of the theories are still living. You think if the theories were true, the government would have allowed them to be released? Of course not. They would have been shut up. Immediately. If this Assange guy was just releasing harmless information there wouldn't be such a big fuss about it. He just happened to be ready for it, and was harder to catch than anticipated.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Superfly724 said:


> This man has done, and is doing, more harm than we know. You can tell how serious the situation is because the U.S. government is actually taking action to stop it. You know how I know all the conspiracy theories about 9/11 are false? Because the theories went viral and the creators of the theories are still living. You think if the theories were true, the government would have allowed them to be released? Of course not. They would have been shut up. Immediately. If this Assange guy was just releasing harmless information there wouldn't be such a big fuss about it. He just happened to be ready for it, and was harder to catch than anticipated.


i do have to disagree with that wether or not the theories are true or not because if the government knows that if they do something drastic about it. it would show citizens that it was true and they had something to cover up. if they just let it go and brush it off it comes off as we dont care its just more lies. the only reason they are taking action on this guy is because he has hard undeniable evidence and they need to stop him before anymore gets out. the guy who made loose change is only running his information of speculation and well theories. they cant determin what some random guy is doing out of his house and stop it before it goes viral just as the wikileak people were able to without being stopped. and we all know once something goes viral you can never get it back. if the guy were to turn up dead after making loose change then a lot of people would have looked at it more seriously.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

TheOldSalt said:


> I tried to use paypal yesterday and couldn't because the wikileak supporter scumbags managed to shut it down for several hours. They are nothing but terrorists.
> Wikileaks itself is a terrorist organization from where I'm sitting, and the global trouble it's stirring up for all nations is going to nearly start a war before it's over, I think.
> Mr Assange should be executed as a global terrorist as soon as possible, and the soldier who sent him the info in the first place should be executed immediately for wartime treason and global terrorism.
> I don't care that the law, as written, never considered this sort of thing and doesn't explicitly allow for capital punishment of these crimes. We need to make some examples of these scumbags at once, before anyone else gets any bad ideas.
> ...


Doesn't it make you sick though that because of the soldier who turned in the information is showing what we're really doing over there though? They're making the US look bad by killing civilians. Personally, I think that what he did was heroic. Really, it makes me sick that we're not doing what we were told what was happening over there. It makes me have no respect for our army leaders or our government. I admire the people over there risking their life but what I think they're doing is wrong. As for the shutting downs of websites like paypal and visa, I do not think that is the right way to do it and am upset with Assange and the Wikileaks website for doing this but I do believe american citizens have a right to know what exactly is happening and I'm glad these videos have been leaked.


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## dan3345 (Jan 27, 2010)

TheOldSalt said:


> I tried to use paypal yesterday and couldn't because the wikileak supporter scumbags managed to shut it down for several hours. They are nothing but terrorists.
> Wikileaks itself is a terrorist organization from where I'm sitting, and the global trouble it's stirring up for all nations is going to nearly start a war before it's over, I think.
> Mr Assange should be executed as a *TRAITOR* as soon as possible, and the soldier who sent him the info in the first place should be executed immediately for wartime treason and global terrorism.
> I don't care that the law, as written, never considered this sort of thing and doesn't explicitly allow for capital punishment of these crimes. We need to make some examples of these scumbags at once, before anyone else gets any bad ideas.
> ...


Fixed..

Although I guess he isn't a US citizen.. In any case this whole thing is disgusting. Obviously the war was a waste and did nothing to help our economy. It had good motives but like everything our government seems to do now a days it falls short at the execution.


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## dan3345 (Jan 27, 2010)

Also I have not read any of the leaks that pertain to specifically what our soldiers and leaders are doing over there exactly. Anyone have the links or info? I would expect they were all torn down by now.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

There's a lot of videos on youtube of helicopters killing innocent civilians including reporters and children and then cheering and congrats by american soldiers to each other. It's sickening.


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## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

snyderguy said:


> There's a lot of videos on youtube of helicopters killing innocent civilians including reporters and children and then cheering and congrats by american soldiers to each other. It's sickening.


I had a friend in Iraq who watched his fellow soldier get shot and killed by a 10 year old Iraqi kid. If you have never stepped foot on that soil and dealt with what those soldiers deal with every day then your opinion means nothing. Present your dog tags and I'll retract my statement.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

It was helicopter shooting civilians. That has nothing to do with any soldiers on foot. That was poor judgement by that soldier. Don't that hold that against me. I'm not looking for a fight here. Simply stating my opinion but I have no respect for our army officials because of the poor choices over there.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I just want to point out that there are sickos in the military, that DO get off on just killing, no matter who it is. But those type of people are everywhere. It's not fair to base everything on a few bad apples. 

I would say the cruel ones are the minority. There are lots more people who are very compassionate and try to help the people over there. Befriending children, sharing things with the natives, and suffer emotionally,every day, at the thought that innocent civilians might have been caught in the crossfire of their weapons. The number of people that come back from war with post-traumatic stress disorder are staggering, and it's usually from having seen horrible things that they wish they could forget.

But let's be realistic here - such is the nature of war. People don't always get out of the way. It's unfortunate but it can't always be helped. The number of deaths in this war are not anywhere to close to any other engagement the US has been in, and yes, I'm including both civilians and military. I'm just saying that things get blown WAY out of proportion a lot of the time, and we need to get our facts straight before making blanket judgments.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Oh I'm not saying that it is the entire army that kills because they can, but unfortunately, a few people doing this can ruin a good thing. And who knows about the casualties. Apparently the government has lied to us about that too according to leaks. As I said before, I can't trust anyone now. This country is falling apart.


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## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

The officers over there follow orders from people sitting in an office over here. Regardless of who is told what to do over there, you can bet that the order can be traced back to the United States soil. 

Forgetting about this though, I read below in another post that someone else wrote about money being "wasted" over there. Pick up a Newsweek, or Time Magazine. See how much money has been spent to try and rebuild the country and the "roads". Even new schools have been built. Are they still there? Most of them, no. Why? Because it is nearly impossible to guard these completed projects from infidel. Just because you don't hear as often of the good that's being done, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You just have to remember that as hard as our soldiers are trying to rebuild and reestablish life over there, they are fighting heavy resistance the whole way. 

To put this in a friendly context, because I by no means am trying to disrespect anyone, lets say you spend 2K to start a 55 gallon reef aquarium. After you finally have it established and everything is running perfectly, someone comes along and dumps a Redbull in it and everything dies and all the hard work you put in is wasted. Do you think you're going to get that time and money back?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

We have more sickos in the military every day because we are running out of volunteers and lowering standards. Sickos are slipping past screening to get a gun and go where no one is watching. Anyone who signs up is stuck for life because of 'stop loss' policies that break the contract to let any soldier, even a reservist, out when they promised to. Sane people planning a future think twice before joining. Add in the stress of repeated tours driving people over the edge and its really not a surprise bad stuff is happening. 

But don't believe everything you see on youtube. Propaganda artists are hard at work trying to inflame anti-american sentiment. Anyone with a PC can create "authentic" atrocities. Hitting civilians by accident I believe. Cheering over the death of children? I suspect it was added in. 

Fighting a war in the middle of a place where people are living is going to kill civilians. Bad tips, bad aim, human error, etc. 

I don't believe in gigantic government conspiracies to do anything. People talk too much. It would get out. I do believe that people in authority screw up and, rather than everyone involved getting canned, they do an ad hoc cover-up. Everyone lies, misdirects, loses the evidence, etc. so the truth doesn't come out and everyone keeps their pensions.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

As to the county falling apart, I don't think its as bad as it seems. We could be in a second depression, we're not. Our currency could be in free fall because of our high debt load, its not. We have a lot of unemployment and foreclosures, but quality of life is still fairly high for most, especially for wartime. We may have hunger, but few are starving to death. Our infrastructure needs repair and roads and bridges and sewers are crumbling after surviving decades past their designed life-span. But deaths from falling bridges, exploding gas-lines and sinkholes are still rare.


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## Corwin (May 23, 2010)

DevinsFish said:


> The officers over there follow orders from people sitting in an office over here. Regardless of who is told what to do over there, you can bet that the order can be traced back to the United States soil.
> 
> Forgetting about this though, I read below in another post that someone else wrote about money being "wasted" over there. Pick up a Newsweek, or Time Magazine. See how much money has been spent to try and rebuild the country and the "roads". Even new schools have been built. Are they still there? Most of them, no. Why? Because it is nearly impossible to guard these completed projects from infidel. Just because you don't hear as often of the good that's being done, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You just have to remember that as hard as our soldiers are trying to rebuild and reestablish life over there, they are fighting heavy resistance the whole way.
> 
> To put this in a friendly context, because I by no means am trying to disrespect anyone, lets say you spend 2K to start a 55 gallon reef aquarium. After you finally have it established and everything is running perfectly, someone comes along and dumps a Redbull in it and everything dies and all the hard work you put in is wasted. Do you think you're going to get that time and money back?


Infidels? really? Not every member of the islam religion is evil. Its just an extreemist sect of the religion, and every religion has its own extreemists, for that matter even un-religions like atheism has them.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm not going to talk about this or post on it anymore.. Not worth causing unstable relations on this forum.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Actually, EMC, the funny thing about that is that in a lot of places, military isn't even recruiting anymore. There are actually MORE people in the military than they know what to do with, at least in some branches, so they're only looking for people with specific qualifications. I know the Air Force at least is not even trying to recruit officers actively, because there is the highest concentration of officers compared to enlisted in that branch. Marines and Army are a little less overstaffed because let's face it, people know what happens when you sign up for those branches - you're likely to get orders to go to the Middle East before you're even out of Training. 

Less and less people are willing to sign up for those branches because there is so much death in them. I don't think any less of them for it; in fact, I'm selfish enough to be glad my husband joined AF so there is less chance of him getting caught in danger. I love the United States and freedom, but not enough that I want him to sign up to be a meat shield. I'm perfectly happy with him doing a safer (albeit still important) job to keep our men and women safe.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, you should have thought of that before you started this thread. Honestly, what were you thinking?

As for the, *ahem,* innocent people getting hurt, who cares? They're the same ones who sang, cheered, and literally danced in the streets the day the twin towers fell. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever, so.. no, their collateral casualties don't bother me one bit, let alone disgust me. They choose to live they way they do, and they seek to force us to live they way they do. That is wholly unacceptable. You are wasting your concern on vermin who would gleefully slaughter you and everyone you know in an effort to convert our nation into a land where 11 year old rape victims are routinely stoned to death for adultery. We will never be able to make peace with them, because they will never accept peace, because for them peace with infidels like us is an abomination. 
Make no mistake; it's them or us. I choose us.

Hmmm.. I seem to have gotten off-topic a bit.


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## dan3345 (Jan 27, 2010)

dont forget on 9-11 every year they have their children pass out candy and sing and dance. Oh and I don't know if anyone caught this last night, or saw it any other time. But they were having this special which was about some guy who went to Afghanistan and was allowed by the Taliban to spend some days with them as a reporter and journalists, he video taped everything they went through and spoke to them interviewed them etc. And their was one part of this that particularly disgusted me. The military had placed an AC-130 above the reporter and the taliban and had begun to fire on them late at night. The taliban didn't know what was happening but this d***head reporter guy told them and saved them from death by evacuating most of them.

And then he was welcomed back into our country to report this.

Forgot it was on CNN


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## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

Corwin said:


> Infidels? really? Not every member of the islam religion is evil. Its just an extreemist sect of the religion, and every religion has its own extreemists, for that matter even un-religions like atheism has them.


I NEVER said that they are ALL evil. In fact if I did please point it out, but you won't find it. In fact my post had nothing to do with that at all. If you read the whole post maybe you would possibly have more to say then some 3 sentence accusation as you sit safely perched at your computer. I would never say they're all evil, but are you going to take your next vacation over there? If not then you are equally as biased.


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## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

hXcChic22 said:


> Actually, EMC, the funny thing about that is that in a lot of places, military isn't even recruiting anymore. There are actually MORE people in the military than they know what to do with, at least in some branches, so they're only looking for people with specific qualifications. I know the Air Force at least is not even trying to recruit officers actively, because there is the highest concentration of officers compared to enlisted in that branch. Marines and Army are a little less overstaffed because let's face it, people know what happens when you sign up for those branches - you're likely to get orders to go to the Middle East before you're even out of Training.
> 
> Less and less people are willing to sign up for those branches because there is so much death in them. I don't think any less of them for it; in fact, I'm selfish enough to be glad my husband joined AF so there is less chance of him getting caught in danger. I love the United States and freedom, but not enough that I want him to sign up to be a meat shield. I'm perfectly happy with him doing a safer (albeit still important) job to keep our men and women safe.


Very true. A GED will not get you in anymore. With the economic downturn from the recession, more people are enlisting than ever before so they can now hand select who gets in. It's a beautiful thing if you ask me.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

It bothers me that we are fighting 2 wars and it doesn't even make the news anymore. We care more about Snooki and Paris Hilton. People are comparing us to the Roman empire at the end when 'bread and circuses' were all that mattered to the voting citizens of Rome while Rome's armies were overextending fighting on multiple fronts. I still think we are better off than the rest of the world. We have "free" speech, we don't get punished for saying the county is falling apart. We don't riot on talk of raising the retirement age (just over ball games). Despite all the ridiculous amount of red tape, it is still possible to start a business and earn a living.

I think trying to bring down the USA is kind of stupid. When Rome fell, the whole world suffered (albeit more freely).


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## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

emc7 said:


> It bothers me that we are fighting 2 wars and it doesn't even make the news anymore. We care more about Snooki and Paris Hilton. People are comparing us to the Roman empire at the end when 'bread and circuses' were all that mattered to the voting citizens of Rome while Rome's armies were overextending fighting on multiple fronts. I still think we are better off than the rest of the world. We have "free" speech, we don't get punished for saying the county is falling apart. We don't riot on talk of raising the retirement age (just over ball games). Despite all the ridiculous amount of red tape, it is still possible to start a business and earn a living.
> 
> I think trying to bring down the USA is kind of stupid. When Rome fell, the whole world suffered (albeit more freely).


Amen. That's why I don't have cable. South Park actually does a great job of mocking everything that people in our society ******************** about.


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## Corwin (May 23, 2010)

DevinsFish said:


> I NEVER said that they are ALL evil. In fact if I did please point it out, but you won't find it. In fact my post had nothing to do with that at all. If you read the whole post maybe you would possibly have more to say then some 3 sentence accusation as you sit safely perched at your computer. I would never say they're all evil, but are you going to take your next vacation over there? If not then you are equally as biased.


I was going off the fact that you refered to them as hethens. That said ive learned from previous threads that its probably best to not get into these sort of conversations. So I think ill just retract the comment I said in the above post and politely leave this debate to the rest of you.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

I started this thread to hear what people were saying. Not be attacked for stating my own opinion, especially from an admin.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can't be thin-skinned on the web. I've been attacked for suggesting adding a filter to a tank. A debate is attacking other's opinions and statements by definition. The whole PC 'you can't say that' stuff bothers me. You put it out there, expect comments. 

On the other hand, I don't like personal attacks. Say the poster is 'mistaken' or 'misinformed', don't call them a 'moron' or any other pejorative adjective. Cite sources and expect the sources to get attacked as biased. 

Religion and the Middle East are hot button topics. You can't discuss them without someone getting emotional.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There isn't a homogeneous 'us' and 'them'. According to Islamic propaganda, the West has a master plan to convert all Muslims. The truth is that one group of Christian missionaries has a strategy to get the biggest "bang for their buck" by aiming efforts at the areas of the world with the fewest Christians and the lowest per capital incomes. Guess where most Muslims are. Guess how many American have even heard of the little missionary group, let alone the "master plan". Right, hardly any. IMO the counter strategy of trying to convert areas with the fewest Muslims and the most money (rich people tithe more) seems logical. Only a few people of any religion are advocating violence or forcible conversion, but the whole world hears about them.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Whoops, sorry; I forgot the LOL/smiley at the end after "...were you thinking?"
My bad.

You considered it an attack? Wow. I thought I was just answering your question. Sorry again.

*sigh*

It looks like I'm probably going to have to delete this whole thread before somebody declares Jihad on us.

Good grief. It's always something. The Civil War 150th anniversary stuff is coming up, and we've got people protesting it. "It's like celebrating the holocaust" says the local NAACP people. Idiots. The Civil War set the slaves FREE. It didn't put them in chains. You'd think they'd be happy about that, but NOoooOOOOoo. They can't wring political points out of being happy over something, can they?


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## dan3345 (Jan 27, 2010)

We live in the age were elementary school kids cannot play tag because it is too violent, and in games nobody wins because somebody will get their feelings hurt for losing. And I can't say Merry Christmas because not everyone is Christian, so somehow saying Merry Christmas becomes insulting or offensive. //end rant.

sorry just political correctness pisses me off above all else.


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## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

Our country is very hypocritical about every topic and IMO it's a beautiful thing, however; for my last post on this thread, I think that the Prime Minister of Australia hit it just right He seems to have a strong viewpoint that I feel is valid justified. Our country would never adopt this theory, but I would support it! Feel free to check out his thoughts....

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml


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## Cam (Nov 9, 2009)

emc7 said:


> It bothers me that we are fighting 2 wars and it doesn't even make the news anymore. We care more about Snooki and Paris Hilton. People are comparing us to the Roman empire at the end when 'bread and circuses' were all that mattered to the voting citizens of Rome while Rome's armies were overextending fighting on multiple fronts. I still think we are better off than the rest of the world. We have "free" speech, we don't get punished for saying the county is falling apart. We don't riot on talk of raising the retirement age (just over ball games). Despite all the ridiculous amount of red tape, it is still possible to start a business and earn a living.
> 
> I think trying to bring down the USA is kind of stupid. When Rome fell, the whole world suffered (albeit more freely).


Wise statement is wise.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

mods are human,too. If you can't express an opinion, modding would be even more boring.


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## Corwin (May 23, 2010)

TheOldSalt said:


> Whoops, sorry; I forgot the LOL/smiley at the end after "...were you thinking?"
> My bad.
> 
> You considered it an attack? Wow. I thought I was just answering your question. Sorry again.
> ...


If you cant celebrate history it begins to lose its hold on the present and people begin to forget it, thats a bad thing. Dont see why people are arguing against civil war celebrations seeing as there isnt anything bad about freeing slaves. Its like how stores etc are allowed to be open on rememberence day, personaly I think thats garbage.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

blame it on the kids who bring guns to school... i mean jeeze you cant even screw someones order up at burger king or they will bring a gun to school haha... but really i have no idea if this has any relevence to what anyone is talking about but i thought it would lighten the situation a little.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Ugh. Don't get me started on the things we can't take to school anymore. I'm surprised they still allow students to carry sharpened PENCILS.

When I was in High School, things were very different. During deer season ( mostly, and to a lesser extent any other time ) half the pickup trucks in the school parking lot had deer guns hanging in the back window gun racks. Kids would get up at 4 am, hunt for awhile, then go straight to school. NOBODY thought this was odd or upsetting in any way, and nobody ever said boo about it.
We had a LOT less school violence back then, too. Nobody ever got shot, but the possibility of it kept everyone civil. Now with the guns and pocketknives gone, there's trouble every day, it seems.


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## dan3345 (Jan 27, 2010)

TheOldSalt said:


> Ugh. Don't get me started on the things we can't take to school anymore. I'm surprised they still allow students to carry sharpened PENCILS.
> 
> When I was in High School, things were very different. During deer season ( mostly, and to a lesser extent any other time ) half the pickup trucks in the school parking lot had deer guns hanging in the back window gun racks. Kids would get up at 4 am, hunt for awhile, then go straight to school. NOBODY thought this was odd or upsetting in any way, and nobody ever said boo about it.
> We had a LOT less school violence back then, too. Nobody ever got shot, but the possibility of it kept everyone civil. Now with the guns and pocketknives gone, there's trouble every day, it seems.


I like the mods on this forum


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

TheOldSalt said:


> Ugh. Don't get me started on the things we can't take to school anymore. I'm surprised they still allow students to carry sharpened PENCILS.
> 
> When I was in High School, things were very different. During deer season ( mostly, and to a lesser extent any other time ) half the pickup trucks in the school parking lot had deer guns hanging in the back window gun racks. Kids would get up at 4 am, hunt for awhile, then go straight to school. NOBODY thought this was odd or upsetting in any way, and nobody ever said boo about it.
> We had a LOT less school violence back then, too. Nobody ever got shot, but the possibility of it kept everyone civil. Now with the guns and pocketknives gone, there's trouble every day, it seems.


lol your not kidding i mean even when i was in school you really never heard of anybody bringing a gun and that was 4 years ago. so much has changed its just rediculous and people need to get their stuff together. just 2 weeks ago the school that is 2 blocks from my work someone brought a gun. they dont think the kid actually had bad intentions because he had no bullets with him and he was showing it off to friends and one of them told on him. the school went into complete lockdown and they searched everyones bags. but i mean come on how stupid can u be there isnt a worse time to do something like that when they was that kid that just brought a gun to school recently and shot himself here in wisconsin. i blame it on the medications they are pumping into kids. seriously every kid is on speed and anti depresents. i was prescribe aderol for atleast 15 years man does that stuff mess with u. when i took myself off of it at 18 i never felt better i was sooo much happier and felt great all the time. but now i have a messed up heart i cant even run without chest pain and nearly blacking out because my heart feels like its gonna jump from my chest.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

"i blame it on the medications they are pumping into kids. seriously every kid is on speed and anti depressants. i was prescribe aderol for at least 15 years man does that stuff mess with u. when i took myself off of it at 18 i never felt better i was sooo much happier and felt great all the time."

What a world we live in... We care more about the "norm" than our selves, which keeps the "norm" from changing. As our society changes, people think they need to change themselves to the "norm". It is in this way that our country and planet continue to become more and more, well, messed up!


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## dan3345 (Jan 27, 2010)

I do agree that kids are on way to many meds. One of my friends last year killed himself because his ADD meds made him depressed. He told no-one he was depressed, and the one morning his mom walked into his room to wake him up and he had a bag tied around his neck and a note on the table. RIP Darius.

I also blame the gun things on pure stupidity. I go hunting with my dad (well used to then bullets got ridiculously expensive) and before I got my license for hunting I had to take an eight hour course on hunter safety. But since my family have been gun enthusiast forever my dad made sure he burned gun safety into my brain from the time I was little until today. 

Recently on the news there was a man who was at a range and prepping his gun to fire down the range. He shot himself in the leg because he trusted the gun. He left it with the safety on assuming it would stop the gun from firing. Not only did he do that but he kept the gun loaded while he marched down the range. When your in a range you always keep a loaded or unloaded gun with the chamber open, the magazine out and the barrel facing downrange. I thought this was just common sense for safety but it seems like most people lack common sense no a days. 

lol listen to me saying no a days and I'm only 16.


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