# Disease killing off bettas?



## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Well. I don't know if you guys remember Noel, the problem fish. That I kept posting on this board about over and over again.

Well, she died. We flushed her because some animal dug up my other sister's fish and we figured the depth of the septic tank was far enough down that her resting place wouldn't be desecrated. Seriously, I thought long and hard about that decision because the idea of flushing a dear friend sounded absolutely horrible, but having a dead friend dug out of the ground sounded worse. I'm sure that sounds crazy, giving that much thought to a fish, but oh well.

ANYWAY!! The same symptoms that she had before she died are showing up on my betta fish. The one that I haven't had any problems with at all (except when she got cloudy eye in which prompted the buying of a five gallon tank). But I don't know what it is, so I have no idea how to treat it. So, here are the symptoms that each of them had/have.

Both of them started looking pretty skinny around the same time (so I started feeding them more)
Both of them also got fin rot (so began the treatments of melafix, which didn't help)
Noel lost use of her tail completely, so stayed at the top not moving much (she was still eating like a vicious little piggy, though)
Noel also kept moving her gills in and out (only a little) constantly
It sounded like swim bladder, so I didn't give either fish food for three days, and then a pea on the fourth day
My fish ate the pea (or partial pea), but Noel did not.
Noel sunk to the bottom of her tank (looked very confused about that and tried to swim back up a few times) so I lowered the water a lot. And then she died that night.

Now my betta looks like she is having trouble swimming, and is acting less active. I started feeding her pellets a few days ago after reading that freeze dried blood worms caused swim bladder sometimes. She still looks thin from the top, but from the side she looks almost like she is supposed to.
She is also doing that thing with her gills going in and out a little bit.
She started twitching the other day, so I put in some stuff for internal parasites.
She doesn't flare out her tail or anything anymore, but still seems pretty interested in food and whenever I come up to the tank.

I just don't know what to doooo!

edit: ACK! I forgot stuff. New list

Less active, still interested in food
Gills fluctuating sometimes
Sometimes she'll make a quick jerking motion
It looks like she has little flakes of clearish stuff hanging off of her in random locations
She has fin rot
She looks pretty thin, especially around her eyes and face
Her eyes look pretty cloudy
Sometimes she looks bowed, like her spine is bent
And the swim bladder area thing, is poking out. Like... there is a lumpy area near her tail. I can't remember if it always did that, or if it is because she is skinny so it is showing up better

Oh, and now there are these tiny white bug looking things in the water (mostly on her drift wood). I didn't notice them before a few days ago. I saw her eat one today, and after some investigation they sound like water fleas. But I don't know how they got there... Anyway.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

is the tank completely cycled ?
is the tank heated ? what is the temp ?
is the tank filtered ?
are weekly 30% water changes being done ?
are they being fed a varied well balanced diet ?


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## BęttãBåbë1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Did you soak/treat your drift wood long enough?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

How long have you had the fish and how long before it got sick?

People can spread illnesses fish to fish, especially if you use any of the same hoses and nets and stuff, but even if you don't. And if they came from the same source, they could've been carrying the same disease.

But a fish living alone that suddenly gets sick usually indicates a water issue. Clean water is the best thing you can do for an unhappy fish. Clear stuff hanging off is shedding skin/scales and cloudy eye mean that something is attacking the skin and outer protective layer of the eye. This can be low pH, chlorine, really high pH, high ammonia, any nitrite, or a bacterial fin rot. 

If the fish has no filter, get it one. Even a single tiny sponge with an air bubbler can "cycle" and control ammonia and nitrite completely, which is something you can never do with water changes alone.

If you aren't using a "removes chloramines" water conditioner, verify that there is no ammonia or chloramines in your tap water. Test for ammonia, add dechlor, wait than test for ammonia again. Where does your water come from and how is it treated? Find out.


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Yus, answers! =D Thanks guys.

No, the tank is not completely cycled. Or, I don't think it is. I've had it for... four months? and it has never had a reading of anything. No ammonia, no nitrites, no nitrates. I am hoping that is because there are also plants in there, but I thought that plants converted ammonia into nitrates, but I've only ever gotten 0 nitrates as well.
Yes, the tank is heated, to 80 degrees, and has been so for months
Yup, diy sponge filter with an aquarium filter sponge, again for- well... 8 months?
Yus, weekly 40% water changes. I have forgotten to change the water for a week or two in the past, but recently it has been every week.
Uuuh, no? They were eating only bloodworms, but I have been feeding my fish with Aqueon betta pellets since Noel died after reading that bloodworms can cause the whole swim bladder constipation thing if fed too often.

I have no idea how long to soak driftwood before adding it to a tank, so I don't know. But the driftwood has been in there for several months with no problems, and Neol's tank didn't have any driftwood, but she withered away first and her tank also got water fleas.

Noel we had for about a year and three months, and my fish has been here for... a year and one month? Both of them started getting fin rot/ looking thin two to three weeks ago. 
Oooh, I haven't checked the pH! A pump went out at our house that airated the water (we have bad sulfur), would that have done it? But I am pretty sure that the fin rot and wasting away type thing happened before the water started tasting really bad. IDK.
But I was using melafix for the fin rot and it wasn't working, so it might not be bacterial. Or I need stronger medicine -_-
Yes to the filter, and yes to the declorinator. I use about eight drops of API water conditioner in the five gallon bucket that I refill the tanks with.

I was thinking it was fish TB, because the symptoms kind of match, but I never considered a pH problem. Maybe that is why my fish has lasted longer, because she has the driftwood that lowers the pH naturally. I'll see if we can stop on the way home and get something for the pH, but I owe the college 2200 dollars, so I can't spend money on anything. I could try to beg for one of the gallons of distilled water that we have at my house. Would that, if this is a pH problem, be much better for the fish? I mean, I don't think she'd be happy about being reduced to a gallon space again, but it has to be better...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If your tap water is FUed, you can try "drinking" or "spring" water. Don't use distilled straight (though you can dilute tap with it if you have extremely hard water).

If you know what is wrong with the water, you can fix it (double declor, add baking soda, etc.). See if you can find a place that will test your water for free (some chains with dip a strip for you) and see if it far off. 

If the problem is the tank water, bigger water changes (up to 100%) can help. If the problem is tap water, water changes hurt.


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

On the way home we grabbed api 7.0 ph stuff, would that be best?
Or would spring water be better ( I think we have a few gallons of zephyr)
Or... baking soda? How would that work?

AND do I do it gradually, like a 40% water change per day, or do I do it quick, like the fish right into a gallon of spring water? I mean, slower makes sense, and yet it doesn't DX 

Woot, so excited that I could save her!.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Don't get too excited. 

If it turns out to be something like columnaris, it will likely kill no matter what you do. And it is easy to kill fish by changing their water parameters too quickly. 

Wait for test results. You need to know where things are now. If you have low pH, 3 will kill and 4-5 can be very uncomfortable for some fish. A 1/4 tsp of baking soda to 5 gallons of new water will bring pH up gradually. Be super careful with dropping pH as that can kill. If it isn't higher than 8.5, leave it alone.

If you have really high ammonia or nitrite, a plop into clean water the same temp can be life saving. But otherwise, gradual water changes are better.


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Snap... Alright, I tested the various water sources for the pH level and got this:

Fish tank: 7.8
Tap water: 7.8
Bucket (water waiting to be used): 7.8
Outdoor faucet: 7.8

It is the same as it usually is, so I don't know that it could be the pH... I was so hoping that was it =(

I don't have any way to test for chlorine though? That didn't come in the API kit thing.
I'm going to test all the water sources for ammonia next.

Fish tank ammonia = 0
Tap water ammonia = 0
Bucket ammonia = 0
Can't test the outdoor faucet yet, because two dogs are hanging out by the back door (so cute).

Next is nitrites!

Fish tank nitrites = 0
Tap water nitrites = 0
Bucket nitrites = 0

Nitrates next... Though I lost the directions. It is the first drops, and then invert the tube a bit, and then shake the second bottle 30 seconds and then add, shaking the tube afterwards for a minute??

ON THE UPSIDE!! She is acting a liiiiiittle more active today. I haven't done anything different today from yesterday, so...


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Urg, ran out of time ast night to do the nitrates, so I'll have to check them when I get home.
I also saw something about adding aquarium salt to the water might help? Should I do that?

Also, she wouldn't eat this morning, and she was just hanging out at the top the whole time. She can swim down still, but she seemed reluctant to do much of anything.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Well if its not water, you are down to disease and "something she ate". Odds are low of recovery. Try the pea thing (microwave a few peas in water, peel the skin off and try to get the fish to eat a piece or 2) and some green veggie flakes.


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Maaaan. Well I'll try the peas tonight. I looked around in her tank and I can't find any poo anywhere in there at all. IDK what green flakes are, but I'll look them up shortly =)

I don't know if this matters, but there is now a fine white layer of what looks like little hairs or something growing at the top of the tank. It looks sort of like the stuff that was growing on the driftwood before I gave it a really good clean a few weeks ago. I mean, I don't know if that matters, as the other fish didn't have any hairy looking fuzz in the tank at all.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

veggie or spirulina flake food if you don't have peas. The white crap is likely something alive and growing from the driftwood. Most of that stuff doesn't bother fish, but if it coats the surface, it can interfere with a betta taking air. So try to skim some off when you do a water change. Of see if it will stick to a floated paper towel. 

If the tap water is good, keep up with water changes (same temp) as bad water will only make any disease worse.


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Hmmm... The flakes are better for fish than peas? Or I read it on one website just now. I have peas, so I'll use those for now. But for future reference, which is better?

I change the water every Thursday, should I be changing it more often right now?

Thanks for all your help, by the way. Google wasn't helping 

edit: I fed her some of a pea (three pieces) and she ate all but one of them, which has gotten lost among the rocks. Again, I don't know if this is a good sign that she'll make it, but even when I came home and find her all still at the top again, she immediately became active and followed my finger down the glass and seems to be pretty much her usual self whenever I am near by. IDK if she was always like that (being inactive until a human is near by) though.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Fish should have sometime green about once a week. Some fish won't eat peas, but will eat algae/veggie flake. Peas are the "fish laxative" most people have in their home and they can help issues like a fish unable to keep level because of gas in the gut. It doesn't always help, but it never hurts.

When I have a sick fish, I up the water changes. Maybe go to smaller ones, but more often. Unhappy fish put "stress" chemicals in the water and they get more stressed if they start to build up. Also water changes can dilute pathogens and toxins in the water. But water changes are stressful, too. So watch your fish and see if they seem to help or hurt. Careful new water is the same temp or just slightly warmer. Also if you use salt at all, make sure old and new water have the same amount / gallon.


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## Nameless (Jan 8, 2012)

Sorry, was super busy these last few days 

Anyway, thanks! I'll add the green flakes to my list for when I have money =)

I changed her water today, and plan on doing so (a little bit) every other day. She doesn't have any salt in the tank now, but I read that it was good for stress and other problems, so should I start slowly adding it now?

Wow, I have some general questions as well, but I'll post those elsewhere.

edit: Snap, I forgot my most important question. I haven't found any fish poo since last Thursday, even after doing a water change today. That sounds alarming to me, though I don't actually know how often a fish "goes to the bathroom". I gave her the pea the other night, but it made no difference. Should I be feeding her peas until she poops, or should I wait a few days and feed her a pea, and then wait a few more days? She seemed to have gotten thinner when I didn't feed her for two days so I fed her the usual food today. Which also seems dangerous... IDK what to do!

And, since it is most likely bacterial, should I be adding melafix to the water in hopes that it might help?


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