# Little known fact



## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

Did you know that the mom and pop shops get their livestock from the same vendors as petsmart, Petco, etc?

Petco uses the same local vendors and the same vendors as your mom and pop shops, seagrest for fresh and coastal or Ora for salt. Same as a lot of mom and pop shops. So before you go bashing petsmart or petco or even you lfs for sick fish check the vendors out first.

Don't hate the middlemen.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Petsmart ships FW fish from a distribution center in IL. Petco uses a big supplier in FL. which actually looked pretty nice in MO Devlin's pics. Most small shops in ATL buy from one wholesaler "the biggest supplier of fish in the SE", SUNPET, near atlanta's airport. All of these places import fish from around the world as well as from florida fish farms.

Quick airfreight and modern water treatment means that far fewer fish succumb from ammonia poisoning and starvation in the supply chain than years age. Live delivery rates are amazingly high. 

But fish are now moved quickly breeder to importer to wholesaler to store in days or weeks. Far too short a time for a truly effective quarantine. And many of the links in the chain have shared water supplies, equipment, or even just people to spread disease. UV sterilizers, micron-filters and low-dose meds keep disease largely in check during transit, but the illnesses that do slip-though tend to be aggressive and med-resistant. 

Think about it. You kill 99.8% of organisms, and breed the survivors. Naturally, the winners are the fastest spreading. You are selecting for deadly. In the wild, a mild disease reproduces better than one that kills all its hosts. 

We wouldn't have access to such an amazing variety of fish without stores and middlemen. And places like Seagrest are continually improving.

However, if you want truly want to maximize your chance of getting healthy fish, get them directly from a breeder. Then there are only 2 places they can get sick, your tank or their mom's tank and they spend less time in stressful transit.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

yep ; i worked for petco..got FW fish from seagrest.fish came into the store looking good. the problem is that company policy is messed up.tanks are sometimes overdosed with salt and kept too cool.company policy also tells what tanks to put fish into..they often mix africans with south americans and tropicals with cold water fish.apparently the vet that writes all of the procedures doesn't know much about fish even though he supposedly owns them.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm just letting ppl know that the same places your mom and pop get their fish from is usually the same as the chain stores, believe it or not Walmart get their fish from seagrest


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There are a few local stores that will actually take my fry and give me store credit. If I need to shop at a store, those are my preference because I will have fry to rehome eventually. Petlands are individually owned franchises that share ads but each do their own thing fishwise. There are chains outlets that won't take a fish if you give it them for free. This keeps disease out of the systems, but means fish sitting in bags on the ground outside or going home with a minimum wage worker. These are often the places selling peacock bass for $1, so they make me mad.

Oversalted systems are a perennial issue around here because our water is extremely soft. Dropping fish into saltier water is much safer than dropping fish into the rainwater we get out of the tap, so salting the systems will protect incoming fish from hard-water areas of the country. But you buy fish, take them home, plop them in soft water and they are all belly up in a few hours because the store didn't warn you to acclimate them.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I've never seen a WalMart get fish from Segrest. 
Anyway, the problem isn't where they come from, but what happens to them once they're in the stores. Grossly incompetent stores are going to have horrible fish.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

True


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

But, yea, the first time I realized that all the local stores ordered from the same list from Sunpet, I was kind of bummed. Many wouldn't even consider other sources, implying, but not saying outright, that an exclusive contract was involved. 

But I joined the local FW club, now I personally know owners of 3 stores, workers at 3 more, 2 importers, and dozens of breeders. Any fish I can't find in town, I "put the word out" and look on aquabid or on specialty forums (ACA, ALA, etc.). I have contact info for store owners, importers and breeders across the country that have been past club speakers. Like anything else, networking is the way to go. Even I want a fish from a store, I don't go driving around. I ask on the forum and club members tell me where they have them.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

local are still usually your best bet. Many will buy from local breeders so the fish will be acclimated to local water conditions. Where many of the chain stores are not even allowed to talk about taking fish from local breeders.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know anyone around me that breeds anything other than live bearers, danios , and cichlids


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Even not talking fish. I usually support local business. And buying fish raised local is a two for one. Local breeder, Local store it helps the local economy much more because all profits stay local. Plus the local pet store here stocks many things for all my pets that the chain stores do not. If they dont have it they will order it just for me.

I give them lots of business. I have my fish, doves, quaker parrot, tree frog, dog, and cats but they still would special order even for someone with just one little pet.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know where you are, but my local petstores are horrible, expensive, and could careless. I went in once asking about a brand of bird food they told me to go to petsmart PETCO because they don't carry it. I wish I had some worthwhile pet stores around me


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

If they are truly that bad than support the chain stores. But as far as Horrible? If you mean the way they look and are organized, you have to remember the chains have corporate designers telling the stores where everything should go even the items on the shelves. As far as price, yes it is more expensive, Talking to the owner you get to realize the box stores buy in such volume that they can afford to sell things cheaper than your mom/pop shop can buy them for. As far as attitude, If it was a employee that said that maybe you should let the owner or manager know. If it was the owner then maybe that is why they cant compete. Customer are willing to pay the higher prices and "poor" store layouts if the service is good.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

No it was the owner, I know the family, as far as lfs go there really isn't any around here that do a good job, crammed fish and dirty tanks, as far as the chains go they go through employees so fast it's almost a monthly ordeal, PETCO will look like crap then amazing two weeks later, same for petsmart


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

Half the problem with stores like Petco, Petsmart, or whatever is they tend hire folks that have ZERO to little knowledge of fishkeeping / fish care.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

The other half is company policy preventing the workers from doing things correctly.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

TheOldSalt said:


> The other half is company policy preventing the workers from doing things correctly.


Bingo!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

now there is the absolute truth...some of their policies are ridiculous...


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