# water changes even with refugium?



## im_a_clownfish (Sep 19, 2005)

Hi All, 

After a year of having my reef tank, I recently created an awesome refugium for my 65g reef tank, which has kept nitrate levels at zero for the past 8-9 weeks even with no water changes (but freshwater topups of course).

I also have miracle mud in the refugium, so the aquarium gets supplemented with all the proper nutrients, minerals, etc. 

So my question is, do I really need to do water changes if the nitrate, nitrite, ammonia levels stay at zero and are undetectable? (Dont worry I've tested using different test kits to be sure)

Normally I know the answer would be yes, to keep the nutrient levels up, but since I have the miracle mud, which apparenlty lasts a year or two, do I really need to do water changes? And if so, how often?

Thanks!

-James


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## Fishnewb1 (Mar 24, 2006)

I have a similar set up and i was wondering the same thing.

A guy from another forums does 3-4 water changes a year...

I would think you could but im sure there will be some good reasons not to...


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Whats in the tank?

What are your calc, alk, nitrate, phosphate etc levls in your tank. 

Also just because you have miracle mud in the fuge doesnt mean that the "nutrient" levels are going to stay okay. Mircale mud isnt something to rely on when it comes to a full tanks dependency on certain chemistry levels.

Your system runs out of calcium and alkalinity, phosphates are added by excess feeding, i would suggest doing water changes, unless those levels are fine


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## im_a_clownfish (Sep 19, 2005)

I supplement the tank with calcium, and I've tested the phosphate levels and they are the lowest they've ever been. I love refugiums!!! I agree about the other nutrients tho - I think once in a while some of the water should definitely be changed. Just wondering how often?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

There is no replacement for fresh saltwater.


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## fishfingers (Apr 10, 2006)

We've got a miracle mud system at my work. Now, its the same kind of deal as yours, with nitrates staying at zero. Because of this, i think the previous employee didn't change the water and only maintained calc,alk and PH. However, I've noticed this tank now gets a LOT more brown algae than the other two coral tanks we have without and mud. The water also has a yellowish tinge to it (due to it being so old). Also, when i did a waterchange I found some much deritus it really scared me TBH, no doubt that one day if left alone the syystem would of crashed. So IMO you should continue doing what wou would do with your regular water change regime, as although the tank may be OK it just wont look as good.



Damon said:


> There is no replacement for fresh saltwater.


I couldn't agree more with this statement.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

One still has to account for tds, iodine and many, many other chemicals that are introduced or depleted from the water.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Damon said:


> One still has to account for tds, iodine and many, many other chemicals that are introduced or depleted from the water.


I definately agree. You cant count on everything being fine by the fact that the nitrates are low.


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## Fishnewb1 (Mar 24, 2006)

what about if you reguarally dose iodine, calcium, and other trace elements to the water?


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

For better water quality i would still do water changes. Your going to have alot of detritus build up that will eventually cause your nitrates to skyrocket.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

water changes are the best inovation to ever come to this hobby, while its roots go way back to the first fish keepers, its still extremely important. No matter what kind of filtration system you've got, no matter what you dose with, regular water changes are still a GREAT thing for your system... your fish and corals will regularly thank you for it.


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

miracle mud doesnt account for the nitrates and phosphates that your sand bed absorbs, when doing a water change, just pulling out water isnt the most important part, using a vaccum and sucking out all the detrius is very important, using something to blast the crud of your rocks and allowing your skimmer to pull it out, or manually removing it with the vac will help too, ive read alot of good things about the miracle mud but i still wouldnt risk my investment on it, you have a TON of money invested in your tank and corals right? do you really want to trust that to a 50$ bag of dirt?


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