# please help with oscar tank



## merryberry (Feb 4, 2005)

hello everyone i'm new to this site. i have a 55 gallon oscar tank. i have three oscars that i got when they were small and are on thier way to being big guys, and one parrot fish (and ofcourse a pleco). i have an aquaclear 500 filter on the tank. i have a problem with the fishtank smelling. its so gross i don't know what else to do, its very frustrating considering that i try to do everything by the books and then some. i change the filter components as directed. i also do a partial water change about every three weeks - month. nothing helps. please please please, any advice would be greatly appreciated. i'm at the point where i dont even want it anymore  thanks so much, meredith


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

first off, welcome to the forums, second, what are your water parameters? sounds to me like you need to do more water changes since oscars are dirty fish!


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## merryberry (Feb 4, 2005)

its a 55 long... and i did a water change this past weekend and then two weekends ago before that and its still gross... is it possible that i need a second filter??


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## turtlehead (Jan 28, 2005)

it seems like you tank is smelling like ammonia, like when you go through a cycle, don't clean you media too often that will happen. You filter is going through a mini cycle, assuming you went through a cycle in the first place before adding fish.


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## Lisachromis (Jan 19, 2005)

You have too many fish in there (or will). A 55 will only hold a pair of oscars comfortably. If those oscars decide to pair up, you might lose your other fish.

You should be changing water alot for this tank. A second filter will not remove the smell. Weekly changes should be done for a minimum. I would think you should remove 35-40% of the water during the change. If the tank still smells, then you need to do more water changes. A fish tank should not smell.


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## merryberry (Feb 4, 2005)

i actually heard about oscars pairing up and two already have, the third seems like the outcast. i guess i will have to remove him from the tank. when i measure the ammonia there is not accessive amounts at all. everything measures normally. i can do more frequent water changes, but what else could the smell be coming from?


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## turtlehead (Jan 28, 2005)

ammonia is supposed to be at ZERO not "not accessive amounts"


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## BlueAmbist (Feb 1, 2005)

Just a thought, I would get rid of all the fish or get them a bigger tank. A pair of oscars is usually ok at full size in atleast a 125-150 gallon tank


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I agree with BlueAmbist - in my opinion 55g is too small for oscars (I like at least an 18" wide tank since an adult oscar is over 12" long) - I generally recommend at least a 50g (36x18) tank for a single oscar, a 75g or larger for two.
Right now I would try 30% water changes every two to three days (and vac the gravel thoroughly).
Also avoid high-ammonia foods like feeder goldfish - stick with pellets. And remember that oscars want about twice as much food as they really need -- they are basically stomachs with fins, they want to eat 24/7... don't feed them every time they beg for food...


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

I would do a 50% WC every day for a week and see if that doesn't clear up the problem. I would also get rite of all the fish except the pair of oscars. I've kept an adult pair of oscars in a 55G before, but I did 50% WC's every other day. In the end I gave the pair to a friend that wanted to breed them and put in one green terror to eat my culls.


RC


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

The problem with oscars is that they never get full up, they constantly want to be fed and the owner usually doesn't have the heart to reduce the daily food that the oscars are used to in captivity.
Oscars are highly intelligent cichlids and in the wild will cease any opertunity they can get by preying on a tetra or may spend hours sifting through debry eating just enough to get them through until the next day.
In the aquarium, the best way to ween oscars off constantly begging for food is to stop their acociation with when the lid opens, food goes in. The best way to do this is to when ever entering the room, lift the lid up but don't feed them anything, this is best done up to 10 times a day. Though this is quite distressing to watch as the fish is left with no reward after constant begging, in the end it will be in his favor as instead of repetitivly swimming up and down the tank and following the owners hand up the glass, he can get on with his life and keep his focus within the tank walls and not expect to be fed when ever he sees a movement outside his tank, the tank will be a lot cleaner as the filter has time to turn the excess ammonia into less harmful nitrite and then nitrate, and your fish will be a lot happier because they won't have dirty water contitions and they don't have a constant desire to eat.
My albino oscar never begs for food because I only feed him twice a week and usually after a bit of maintainance of the tank.
Even though food keeps fish alive, it can also kill them.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

Regardless of how often water changes are performed, have you seen fully grown Oscars? They get HUGE and need space to swim. IMO fish keepers shouldn't even keep fish unless they can provide room for their fish to swim around. Just cleaning the water so there are minimal nitrates isn't good enough; the fish need more room than a 55-gallon offers.


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

90% of all oscars will never get to be 12" in a tank. The only oscars I've ever seen get full size live in outdoor areas or in commercial size tanks. I had one oscar in a 29G tank for years in my fishroom. He lived a happy life eating Bettas all day. 


RC


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

LOL BlackBetta :lol:


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

The only Oscars I've seen less than 8 inches have been those in tanks of 55 gallons and under. I would bet the lives of my fish that if you had a 150-200 gallon tank with a few Oscars, they'd grow much larger and live much healthier lives than those in the smaller tanks would.


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

My oscar seemed pretty happy eating Bettas in his 29G tank. The real facts of life are most oscars or any other large fish are never going to reach full size in an aquarium that they are likely to be kept in. Most fish will never have even a 1% of the swimming room they would have had in the wild. 


RC


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

I have my oscar in a 120g tank and do regular water changes, he's only 10 inches and is fully grown. Beat that AFG! :lol:


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

I wasn't referring to whether or not a fish would seem happy or content, I was talking health. Lifespan, growth, likelihood to become infected with disease, etc.

I'm just saying that a 12-16 inch fish should be allowed to reach 12-16 inches, or at least close to it. If they are only getting to 6-7 inches, they are stunted. People (beginners especially) just do not understand that fish like Oscars or carp-related fish are not meant for aquariums commonly found in the home. If you can provide/afford a 300-500 gallon tank indoors – go for it. The problem is most of these people will never have such a tank... which is why we must be careful when selecting larger breeds of fish.

It's the same thing as living in a large city with a big dog. It just isn't possible most of the time, unless you have special accommodations.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

Cichlid Man @ Sat Feb 05 said:


> I have my oscar in a 120g tank and do regular water changes, he's only 10 inches and is fully grown. Beat that AFG! :lol:


Why would I want to beat that? If he is 10 inches, that’s a pretty good size… but then you’d have to look at the tank he’s in (120 gal).


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

aquariumfishguy @ Sat Feb 05 said:


> I wasn't referring to whether or not a fish would seem happy or content, I was talking health. Lifespan, growth, likelihood to become infected with disease etc


Neither was I, I meant that my oscar is in a large tank, but still isn't 12-16 inches.
Even in the wild the average oscar is 9-10 inches, only a few manage to reach 12-16 inches.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

Ok, I was talking to blackbetta when I said what you quoted. 

And regarding the 12-16 inch figure, that was an example, but nothing in particular (no named fish, just a number to go with). I agree, a 10-inch Oscar is full grown, or about full grown.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

I have a guppy that is 0.01-3.14 metres long. :roll: :lol:


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

I'll beat a pair of 8" oscars in a 55G tank that is taken care of are healthier then the same pair in a 300G tank with subpar care. My oscar in the 29G got daily WC's with the rest of the tanks and he was never treated once for any problems. I know of one Betta Breeder that has a 10" oscar in a 30G tank. He's lived in that tank for a long time. He lets the owner pet him when he is feeding him and I don't think he's ever been sick, but he also gets WC's along with the Betta tanks.


RC


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

How big is your oscar?


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

The oscar I had in the 29G was 7-8" when I gave him away. He was about 2" when I got him. He was a real strange gold color. a buddy wanted to try to breed him, but he never did get any fry. He traded him to someone else for a different fish. I don't know what happened to him after that. I had him for hmm 4 or 5 years I think.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

BlackBetta @ Sat Feb 05 said:


> I'll beat a pair of 8" oscars in a 55G tank that is taken care of are healthier then the same pair in a 300G tank with subpar care. My oscar in the 29G got daily WC's with the rest of the tanks and he was never treated once for any problems.


I wasn't considering whether or not the Oscars in, say, a 300-gallon tank was living in sub par care. I was comparing Oscars in a 29g to a (healthy) Oscar in a 300-gallon...

Also the problem with keeping these fish in smaller tanks is most people do not have the time or will power to do daily water changes on any given tank. More often than not, waste levels pile up and you might even catch some ammonia levels. I recognize that you are a responsible fish keeper, do regular water changes, and even go above and beyond for many of your fish. But do most beginners?


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

I think it come down to being willing to do what needs to be done. If your going to keep any fish you need to do the work to keep them. If you have a huge tank then you can do less work, but if you have a smaller tank it is much more work to keep fish healthy, but you are right that most people done realize the work involved in big fish.


RC


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Most responsable people who do there research won't buy a fish if they know they can't look after it anyway.


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## Fishnut2 (Jan 18, 2005)

I've bred 12" oscars in a 55. I'll be the 1st to admit, that's the absolute minimum size for a pair. I wouldn't recommend that for beginners. The tank required constant maintenance/ I caught signs of a crash several times/ and the fish could barely turn around in it. They definetely needed a bigger tank.
Oscars like to rearrange the tank during pre-spawn activity...moving substrate...attacking filters and the red light on heaters...and attacking the hose during water changes. It was a mistake, and I'll never do it again. I later spawned another pair in a 180 gallon horse trough...and could see the difference in the way the pair acted. They were definetely happier in the bigger surroundings. The bigger the better for Osacrs!


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

Cichlid Man @ Sun Feb 06 said:


> Most responsable people who do there research won't buy a fish if they know they can't look after it anyway.


If that were true, you and I wouldn't be here right now, as there would be no need for a forum. And I do not consider these “people” irresponsible; I just consider them uninformed (sometimes unfairly so), and ignorant. We are all ignorant in one subject or another.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

If I saw a an animal for sale with out knowing anything about it, i wouldn't just go out and buy it because I think it looks cute.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

Unless you really do your research, the most people know about fish is that they live in water... many people do not understand just how complicated fish are. Let's not even get into ammonia/nitrite/nitrates... those are basically unheard of to beginners.

So yes, it is very believable to me that people would unknowingly go out and buy fish "just because".


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## go55 (Jan 20, 2005)

The tank is overcrowded. 1 oscar and 1 pleco is pushing the limit. So I suggest you start getting rid of fish


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Dude aquariumfishguy is completely right... Oscars although they rarely get to be 10-12 inches in the wild, are completely able to in an aquarium that is big enough for them... They do not have selective pressures that wild fish have, and an oscar can live in captivity for almost 20 years! Thats a lot of time to grow! I bet your fish in the tiny 29 gallon didn't live nearly that long, BECAUSE, it was stunted in growth, and in bad condition. I could put money on it. Just because a fish has lived for 6 years in a 29 gallon does not mean its been successful... as an aquarist you should be ashamed (RC)


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

Fishfirst,

I bet my oscar in his 29G tank was better taken care of then any fish you've ever had. He was given daily WC's and live healthy food. You can go be ashamed because I'm not going to be.
I know how well my fish are cared for.


RC


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

just because you do water changes every day does not mean that your fish is healthy... there is a big difference between surviving and thriving. you can say what you want, and yes you did take care of your oscar... but putting him in a 29 gallon tank is like throwing yourself in a locker and living there all your life...


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

I've never seen a fish yet that wasn't sick to begin with that wasn't healthy when given daily WC's..But then again I've only been raising fish seriously since 1991. Discus are pretty big fish also,but I made really nice money breeding them in 29G tanks and raising the fry in 10G tanks. The fry got 3- 95% WC's a day and seemed to be thriving pretty well.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

lol you do realize that by doing 3 95% water changes daily you are restarting the Nitrogen cylce daily... but what do I know???? like others have said, that 55 gallon is too small for three oscars and whatever else was in there... I would either go with a pair of them, or upgrading the tank. (sorry for the bickering earlier and not answering your question merryberry, some of us are really passionate about this hobby and there is debate) When people say the tank is over crowded, they are more concerned with the bioload that is produced by those fish, but I would have to agree that now that your fish are growing up and getting to thier adult size, that your tank is overcrowded physically, and chemically, you'll find that this is a spawning media for disease, which can be very frustrating, and you don't want your fish to get sick right?!?!


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

I do realize by doing 3 95% water changes a day I'm not depending on a nitrogen cycle to keep my water safe.... but what do I know ????


RC


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

What a crease! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Can't we all just get along ? 

Seriously - keep in mind that what works for a hard-core fishgeek doesn't work for the average person buying a fish -- something like 80% of the people who buy an aquarium end up with it empty in the garage/attic within a year. Why ? often unrealistic expectations or bad advice - the expect it to be like the TV, you just look at it, you don't have to _learn_ anything...

I have no doubt that there are people who can successfully keep an oscar alive in a 29g for a length of time - and daily water changes were the first thing I thought off in that instance.

I also know that if you give 99% of the LFS customers I've had to deal with (or 99% of my service customers) a 55g or 75g tank with a pair of oscars, they'll still have HLLE or bacterial infections within a year or two - because they either don't know what they need to do to keep the fish healthy or don't care.

They aren't willing to do the research, or the water changes, or both.

I always try to make my advice something a) is feasible for Joe Average and b) will keep his fish alive when he gets lazy - ie I always recommend weekly water changes if bi-weekly would work, because I know that no matter what I say they will double the interval (or more) - if I say monthly it will become every 3 months...

I tend to recommend larger tanks than needed, in part because nobody ever buys "just" two oscars - theres a few pictus cats, and a 14" pleco in there as well that they "forgot" to mention... oh yeah, and two redbelly pacu and a silver arro - all in a 55g... etc etc ....

I also try to keep in mind that my advice isn't just read by the original poster - its also read by other people who may be having similar problems. I don't aim my advice at people who are "advanced" aquarists - if you are breeding something other than livebearers or cichlids you are generally doing something right and don't need me to tell you about the importance of water changes, oxygen exchange rates, fatty acid profiles, etc.

Personally, my goal (whether helping a customer in the store, a person online, or a newbie at a club meeting) is a tank that is 100% disease free for 5+ years.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

like I said before, I'm sure an oscar can live in a 29 gallon, especially with frequent water changes......... I just don't see the point in stunting him for life, and I also see it as irresponsible. Again, its like you living in a closet for all your life, give us a place to eat, some light, and a place to poop is fine and dandy, but things happen with our state of mind, and our physiology. Our muscles degrade, we get bored, and we die young. Same goes with fish. Although we don't give them nearly as much space as in the wild, we should give them enough room to turn around, play, and exercise, when they are adults. That is the only point I was bringing across, it really isn't helping the writer of this post for us to bicker, obviously the tank is overstocked and water changes are not being done frequently. IMO we shouldn't tell people what could be done, but what is best for thier fish.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

redpaulhus - well said, great synopsis. I, too, have no problem with people trying different things and thinking outside the box… it’s when they pass their (unusual) success off on beginners as the norm that problems can arise.


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## merryberry (Feb 4, 2005)

thank you everyone for you advice. i got rid of the third oscar and one other fish. now i have the pair of oscars and one parrot. i am also planning on giving away the parrot so it will only be the pair. i have been doing frequent water changes which has made tank better. someone also told me to take out the bubbler because it could be causing unneccessary bacteria??? in any case, the tank looks much clearer and the ammonia levels are at zero. NOW... the fish aren't eating as much. why could this be? please help out, advice greatly appreciated. thanks again, meredith


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

well, ive never heard of the bubbler (im assuiming you mean a bubble stone) cAusing unnecessary bacteria. and what are your other tank levels at?


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

do another water change... it could be nitrites that are spiking in your tank now. it could be going through a mini cycle right now. Also the less competition for food might be the reason they don't seem as interested.


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

I agree that we need to know all your major water readings. Fish stress fairly easily, and a common sign of this stress is lack of appetite.


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