# smelly water confusion



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

:help: I recently bought a 1 gallon tank for my four year old son. The water has begun to smell like a cat pee'd in his room. Every thing I've read says to change 20% of the water and I get that, I grew up around aquariums, but what I'm confused about is what to put back in. Some people say;its a small tank so use tap water, some say bottled drinking water, some say to use conditioned tap water. I noticed the smell yesterday, but did not figure out where it was coming from until today. Dorothy (the fish) seems fine but its been my experience that it doesn't always mean it is fine. I am having a hard time remembering what my step mother did with hers. However, I do remember cleaning out the whole 50 gallon tank she had and have now read that its not good. My son loves his fish and I would hate to be responsible for his demise( yes Dorothy is a boy) So what water do I use. And should I do this every day until the smell dissapates? I feel it is urgent. Please help!


----------



## rbishop1 (Feb 17, 2006)

If you used your tap water for the initial fill, then I would recommend to continue using it, just keep the temperature of the new water as close to the tank temperature as possible. 1 Gallon tank? What kind of fish is Dorothy? Any filtration on the tank?

You may have to use a dechlorinator for chlorine or chloramine removal when using city water.


----------



## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

what kinda fish is it?? If you have well water and if thats what you have used before, then its fine to use that. You should add a water conditioner to get rid of any metals that could be present. What kind of filtration do you have on it if any??


----------



## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Being such a small tank you could just let a bucket of water sit overnight and that will adjust to room temp and any chlorine that the water company might use will evaporate on its own. However many water companies are now using chloramine which does not evaporate. It is suppose to be better for the environment, BUT you need conditoners to rid the water of it. If you have a one gallon bucket you can treat it let it sit overnight and do your partial water change the next day.


----------



## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

One gallon tanks, if unfiltered, should get 100% water changes. It is really hard to cycle a one gallon aquarium as there is little margin for errors here. Fish create ammonia through breathing and eating. This is toxic to them. Unless you are testing your water for ammonia content, you never know when it is there. It is colorless and odorless, but the fish can feel it. It causes them stress which can compromise their immune system. 

Left over food and fish wastes that accumulate at the bottom also create toxins for your fish and should be removed through water changes or some other method.


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

Thank you all for your help. to answer some of your questions, he's a bubble eye goldfish. (he may be a girl. I don't know how to tell. My son thinks its a boy) The tank came as a kit. the filter is a little cylindrical thing that goes in a tube leading to the bottom.That also provides the air. I bought the fish the same day as the tank. Only to find out later that its not good to do that. But I felt I had no choice, it was already at my house. So I left him in the bag, untied for a few hours soaking in the tank. Now I know first hand why you shouldn't do that. I feel really foolish. I guess I just didn't know as much as I thought I did. We live in the city of missoula(montana) I'm really not sure what they use in their water. My guess is chloramine because they tend to be really concious of the environment here. Being all the natural habitats that are here. And the aquafer we use is just below the city.


----------



## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

Calico telescope eyes probably not good for 1 gallon i know mine loves to swim around alot, Because they don't have good sight you should give them quite a bit of room yours will probably be hitting the wall quite a bit mine still does about once a day.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Beacue the tank is so small I would do quite large water changes, about 50-100% every day. Use the dechlorinater as this will make the water safe for your filter.
Don't feed your fish much either, this is probably what the smell is too.


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

So I tried to post a picture. But the folder is apparently WAY too big. sorry. thanks again for all your replies.


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

:fish: Yay! Thanks to you and my local pet smart, Dorothy is doing much 
better. I started using bottled drinking water after testing the water and 
realizing our water must be really hard! I used the 5 in 1 strips. Pet smart reccomended Ammo Lock for the ammonia, and I did a 20% water change 2 
days in a row ( i haven't tested it yet today) using bottled water and water conditioner. He is now swimming more calmly and not bumping into stuff. The smell dissapated almost immediately. I also moved his plastic plant into the corner to optimize his small space. He truly seems much happier. Thank You so much, all of you. This site and you are wonderful. Together we saved a little fishy's life, and a little boy's first pet. :mrgreen:


----------



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Ideally everyone in the world should realize that goldfish are not good canadates for 1 gallon tanks. Ammolock is not the key to success here, water changes are. Hard water is fine for your goldfish but the size of the tank is not. A tank that size will severely stunt a goldfishes growth. Unfortunately stunting a goldfishes growth will greatly inhibit its lifespan as well. I would get him a nice cycled 10 gallon tank within the next couple of weeks... they are only about $40 and he'll much appriciate the extra room.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Fishfirst said:


> Ideally everyone in the world should realize that goldfish are not good canadates for 1 gallon tanks. Ammolock is not the key to success here, water changes are. Hard water is fine for your goldfish but the size of the tank is not. A tank that size will severely stunt a goldfishes growth. Unfortunately stunting a goldfishes growth will greatly inhibit its lifespan as well. I would get him a nice cycled 10 gallon tank within the next couple of weeks... they are only about $40 and he'll much appriciate the extra room.


I can get a brand new 10g for free! Matter of fact I can get most stuff free
But that's only because I work with aquariums.


----------



## little (Mar 10, 2006)

Why pet stores dont tell people about goldfish is beyond me, seems there the parents choice for kids, I did the same thing, many times, goldfish, guppies, mollies. normally 3 at a time. I do recall a black mor bubble eyed fish i got and stuck in a 2.5 gallon, we called him Rodney, after rodney dangerfield with his bug eyes, After the dissolve of that relationship, My ex and i had decided to send the fish off to his parents. he was like a kid to us and i did not want him to have and he did not want me to have it, , As the years have past, i have recived updates on the fish, seems he keep the old man busy, and very happy, our 2.5g then a 5 g up to a 10 g tank, to a 29 g tank he finally died in a 55 g tank by himself and one pleco. the dang fish keep out growing everything that he was moved too. This fish lived a very Large happy life. I regret that the fish shop never said anything about this, I now know why everything we stuck in with him died. 
oh well no point made there, when i think about that fish reminds me of a kid book about a kid who over feed his fish and it keep growing and ended up in the pool outside ,, hehe , cant recall the name


----------



## rbishop1 (Feb 17, 2006)

As Fishfirst noted, ammo-lock isn't all it is proposed to be. It can actually inhibit a biological filter bed from being established.

If at all possible, start up a 20 gal long with a filtration system of your preference, so "Dorothy" can have a long life of happiness for your son. (Even though most would tell you you need a bigger tank, you can continue to upgrade) (this gets addictive!).

Please watch the feeding, the excess food can really stress the fish out! A very small pinch is more than enough and skipping a day or two doesn't hurt. 

The liquid test kits are more accurate overall and if you research, I am sure you will find the need to keep nitrAtes below 20.

Keep in touch and let us know how Dorothy is doing!


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

dear fish friends, I am very sad to report, Dorothy's unexpected demise. I am not really sure what happened. All I know is my son took the lid off the tank and dropped it in the tank. I happened upon it seconds later, but it was too late. My guess is either he was at the top of the tank and was struck by the lid, or was electricuted. He was on the bottom, on his side and could not swim up, only in a circle around the bottom and even this was a struggle. This went on for about an hour,and then he just died. I have proved to be much more upset than my son, tears in my eyes as I write, But I have to keep reminding myself that he's only four, and doesn't really understand what he did. And besides, I was the one taking care of him daily. Anyway, I would like to try again and do it right this time. So, a few ??'s - How long should I wait?( I have not shut off the air yet) How should I properly prepare this time? and lastly what kind of fish is okay? Dorothy was only an inch long, supposedly okay for the size of tank. ( I do plan on getting a bigger tank, when I have the experience needed, and the money)  Any information is welcome, I do plan on changing the tanks location, for some of you that are concerned, so that my son cannot accidentally hurt another. Its funny, we only had him for a week and a half and I used to check on him so often that I miss him already.


----------



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Thank God only the fish was electrocuted.


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

ron v said:


> Thank God only the fish was electrocuted.


t: I'm sorry I thought this was fish forums, if that's the kind of advice I needed I would log on to psyche forums:? Any way, I'm not trying to make any one angry, however, I felt that not only was the comment out of place, but a little insensitive. I would like some real help If anyone has some.


----------



## CyberSpike (Mar 25, 2006)

I do believe Ron was just expressing his concern and thankfulness that the incident did not injure your son.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

greenween said:


> t: I'm sorry I thought this was fish forums, if that's the kind of advice I needed I would log on to psyche forums:? Any way, I'm not trying to make any one angry, however, I felt that not only was the comment out of place, but a little insensitive. I would like some real help If anyone has some.


Whoah take a chill. Ron was just saying though. My advice to you would be go do a bit of research on the basics of cycling before going out and cramming anymore poor fish into your system.
Good luck.:lol:


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

Okay, that was the point of why I wrote, I did read every thing that I thought
applied to my situation in the beginner section of this forum, and most of it does not apply to my "mini tank". Most applies to 10 gallon or over. I was simply trying to express my intrest to learn to do it the proper way, if it isn't 
obvious I can be a little sensitive. To both critisizm and to the lives of fellow 
beings on the planet. It wasn't merely a fish to me, no life is. I am sorry if I 
offended any one. I was shocked that a group of people who were being so 
helpful and supportive, now wanted to comment on my lack of knowledge.
I just want some help, that's all. The only thing I saw on "cycling" was something about adding ammonia, I was under the impression that ammonia was the original problem I had.And that It wasnt good. I simply want to know what the best way to do this correctly is, and who is the best candidate for 
the tank size. As I already expressed, I feel bad that the fish lost his life. I 
want to try again, without setting myself up to fail, as i did before.


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Hi, We all have trials in fishkeeping, believe me. 
may I suggest a betta?
They are pretty fish and are just the right size for a 1 gallon tank -- although I know some people will say that bettas need 5 gallons. 
Bettas like to be at least 70 degrees, not in the sun and not in a draft. You will need to change the water weekly and can use bottled water quite successfully. 
The fish eats betta pellets, does not need filtration and is quite responsive to people( begging for food!). If you already have a SMALL filter in the 1 gallon that doesnt have a real brisk flow a betta would be ok.
A small snail as companion would be ok along with a small live plant (anubias)if you like.
Several kids I know have bettas and thoroughly enjoy them. 
I have 6 at present and am not a kid!My grandkids love to watch mine.


----------



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Greenwave, I am so sorry that my comment offended you. I, in no way, meant any offense to you. Thing's like that happen. I am a grandparent, I know how little hands get into everything. I truely am glad your son is OK.

CichlidMan edit: It's Greenween.lol


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

First of all, Ron, thank you for your concern, I tend to see sarcasm in situations because I am around alot of it. And like I said I am a little too sensitive. I really dont mean to cause hurt feelings. Thank You and every one else for being understanding ( and for putting me in check, which we all need from time to time ) Anyway, Its funny that betta was reccomended, because that was what we were going to get when my son saw the goldfish. So in an
effort to make the best home for a new one, being that the other one died in 
the tank, how do you clean and make it habitable? There is still bubbles at the top of the tank( they appeared the next morning after dorothy passed on) and have proved to dissapate somewhat, but some still remain. I have left it on all week, for fear that shutting the whole thing down might cause more problems. Is this true? And as far as this cycling thing, I read somewhere that you put a few drops of ammonia per 10 gal. what do I do with one gallon? and is it necessary for a mini tank. Should I simply sweep it out, change out the water and continue with a new one. I'm just not sure how much of the starting instructions that came with the tank apply after you have had an inhabitant (stressed) and then die in the tank. I thank you again for your help and putting up with my (sometimes uncalled for )sensitivity.


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

A 1 gal tank will be very difficult to cycle and keep the water parameters steady due to the small volume of water. The chemistry in it can become unstable faster than a large (10 gallon and up) tank.
Scrub the tank out with plain water or if you must- add a tiny bit of bleach and let it soak for 20 minutes .
then rinse, rinse, rinse until you can't smell bleach any more.
In fact during one of the rinses you can add the water conditioner to cause the chlorine/ chloramine to dissipate.
If you smell any bleach you will need to let the tank sit overnight or keep rinsing until the smell goes. That way if there is any infection in the tank it will be gone.
However i think a simple rinsing out will suffice since the goldie was not ill but died d/t other reasons.
With a tank that small you can put in a bit of gravel and over time the tank will cycle a bit. Change at least 50% of the water weekly making sure to use conditioned water. If you have test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate you may want to map the progress of the tank and see if it does in fact cycle, but generally it is easier to just do the water changes on that small of a tank.If you clean the gravel you will destroy good bacteria so get a turkey baster to suck up poo and uneaten food.
Betta poo is quite large and you can go to the dollar store and get a turkey baster to remove the poo on a daily basis. That will help the water stay cleaner BUT still do the water changes weekly.
If you have any more questions you can email me privately or continue to post here.

I have several bettas in various size containers-- some are small but cycled and some are not.
mousey


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi all, just wanted to update my fishkeeping trials. I got a betta about a week or so after the dorothy passed. Its been about a month or so I guess. He is doing GREAT! We moved the tank out of my sons reach, well without a chair anyway. I of course do all the water changes,supervise feeding,and so on, but we have been really successful. The turkey baster idea was awesome!
It is such a small tank it is so much easier than pulling out the siphon each time. Especially because after dorothy I swept out the tank real well and realized that even though I bought the smallest siphon they had, it barely fits in there. I've been turkey basting the bottom every two days or so and doing 25% changes at the same time. Our betta, bloo, seems really happy. I thank you all for your help and suggestions. You saved a lot of heartache I'm sure. 
Also, I saw a used (I'm guessing 10-20 gal) tank at a thrift store. Is it a good idea to buy a used tank? and if I do, is there any thing I should keep in mind, or would regular cycling do. We would like a bigger tank, (we're addicted!) well, we got a snail with bloo and after a week bloo attacked goldie(the snail)
and eventually killed him. I think maybe the water was not hard enough for the little guy and made him vulnerable. We do have a little bit of algae now, I think its the hard green kind. (Green spots, the size of a pin head.) I heard to use a credit card? Do I wash it first? Credit cards are dirty like money. I don't want to create more or should I say the wrong kind of bacteria, and I shouldn't use soap. Maybe bleach and then let it evaporate. New utensils I just usually rinse off with plain water. But a dirty credit card? I am unsure. The tank( 1 gal.) is too small to try the rubber lip I see so often suggested. 
Sorry about the 20 questions, I guess its been awhile!


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I wouldn't bother washing the credit card, the germs it carries are for/from people, not fish and soap can be bad if not rinsed off. Or get one of those magnectic scrapers or just one of those green things they sell for scrubbing dishes (get a new one without anti-bacterial additives). A used tank is fine, just fill it outside and let sit for a day to two to check for leaks. If it does leak, you can reseal it with 1 tube of aquarium sealant in a half hour. Loose trim and black sealeant are a warnings signs that it might leak, but test all used tanks even if they look perfect.


----------



## Scy64 (Apr 23, 2006)

For the algae problem, you can always go to the local petstore or even walmart's fish accessory section. There are usually little scrubbing pads there that can help. I've heard that sometimes you can scratch acrylic tanks, so be careful if that's what you've got (I have an acrylic 10g and a glass 30g- scrubbers work fine for me on both). You can then use the turkey baster to suck up the algea you scrape off.

As for second hand tanks, they're always risky, but can be worth it. if you do buy it, take it outside and fill it all the way up with water to make sure there are no leaks (and let it sit for a bit to insure all is well). Nothing worse then decorating a tank and then have it start to leak in the house!

Sounds like your betta is doing much better! I had a betta for a while in a 1.5g tank, and he lived happily for many years. =)


----------



## greenween (Apr 8, 2006)

Okay, so I did buy the used tank, I waited so long that they had even taken 5 dollars off the price. It seems sort of dirty to me. Sort of a whitish film ring around the top and some on the sides. I was just wondering if I should scrub it out and rinse the rocks (of course with plain water) with one of those scrubbies you were talking about? I don't want to kill any surviving bacteria, if its possible for them to live, but I don't know why this person decided to sell their tank. If their fish died from disease or something, I definately want to make sure I don't carry that over. Will the cycling take care of all that? I will definately take your advice on the filling it outside thing, thank you. Should I take all of the rocks out first? Aside of seeming a little dirty, Everything seems fine with it. No visable cracks, complete with filter system, heater,thermometer, hood w/ light , rocks, and even a small plastic plant. The light bulb and actual filter is missing, but I'm really in no hurry now that I have it, I know these things take time, now that I've had the forementioned experience with the one gallon. I am not sure on gallons but the dimensions are:20 in long, 10 in wide, 12 in deep. Filter says Aqua-Tech 5-15, pro-file heater, hood is regent. I don't know why I am giving you all this info. Just in case, I guess. So, I guess my question is can/should I scrub it out, or is it better to leave it and start the cycling?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Rinse everything in the sink. If there is some bacteria left in the gravel it will survive this and if there is any stray dust and dirt it will come off. You can use a collander for the gravel. If you're afraid of disease, use bleach solution, but you will lose any biology thats left. Once the tank is empty you can rinse it in the kitchen sink, You can use lime-a-way on the white crud, and the green scrubber, just be sure to rinse very it well. Of course, check the heater with another thermometer before you add any fish.


----------



## Scy64 (Apr 23, 2006)

I had white stuff (I assume it was hard water stains) all over my tank (especially the hood and filter), and it was reccomended to me to use distilled white vineger. Tried it, and it took the white stuff right off. 

I used it on the plastic parts of the tank and the glass hood only though. Rinsed really well and all that. Seemed to work well, and just a touch of scrubbing required where it was thicker then most.


----------



## Caitlin Rose (Apr 28, 2006)

Not many fish can stay in a 1 gallon, but of any the most suited might be a betta. They are usually sold in tiny cups and kept in small bowls  . I think they deserve more room, but could start in your 1 gallon tank. They are VERY colorful and have great personalities! They can be among the more lively and entertaining fish out there, and are widely available. There is plenty of info on them all over fish forums, so read away! And please just take everything people say here with a grain of salt... lots of people have good information, some have bad information. Some people can say things in a way that sounds rude or even offensive, but don't take that to heart, there's so many people on here there's bound to be a few bad seeds  and sometimes it's just a misunderstanding anyway. I'm sorry about your loss and all I can say is research, research, research; try your best and there is still the potential for a random accident (especially when little kids are involved). Good luck.


----------



## Caitlin Rose (Apr 28, 2006)

Woops, posted before seeing page two! Hope your Betta Boo works out for you, I am longing for one myself but can't get one yet . Yes the white stuff is hard water staining, not bad for the tank, just esthetically irritating (as far as I know anyway). Once he's in the bigger tank you could add a small group of little corries (if you want more fish that will cohabit without having problems). They like to school, so I'd get like 6 or so ones that will stay smaller like Panda Corries. Lol, I'm not even sure if you want other fish in the tank. But a 10 gallon will have you itching for more after a while


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Those dimensions fit a ten gallon tank so the filter should be fine, you can buy filter cartridges for it or use a sponge insert. You'll need to have something in the filter when you start cycling the tank. Light is optional, but most people like to see their fish.


----------



## ultasol (Mar 12, 2006)

For your larger tank, if you don't move the betta, you could try a trio of endlers livebearers or small (wildtype) guppy. ANother lovely fish for that size tank is the sparkling gourami, much smaller than dwarf gouramis I find them to ahve wonderful personalities. Mine aren't shy at all. Also, if you can get 1 or 2 watts per gallon of flourescent lighting over the tank, easy plants (such as floaters, java moss, java fern.. don't go by what petsmart says are 'lowlight' plants) will help suck some of the excess nutrients from the water, which would otherwise pollute your tank.
Anubias are another good low light tank choice


----------



## darkfalz (May 7, 2006)

Here's what you should do, is put the Betta into the big tank, throw that 1 gallon death trap away, and get him some low maintenence buddies, like some white cloud minnows or zebra danios. Bettas may fight fish which looks similar, but these fish obviously don't.

Only thing is don't put a strong filter in the big tank, or put the output towards the back wall so that there's only a small area of the tank that Betta will avoid with strong current.

Wash everything good, soak it overnight even better. Make sure it works before setting it up. Set heater on 26 or so degrees for Betta (if you do take my advice and minnows or danios, put it lower, maybe 22, Betta won't mind but the minnows in particular won't like it that warm - plus your heater won't have to be on all the time). Otherwise you can get some tropical fish which are compatible, and keep it on 24-26.

For the filter I'd find some compatible media and replace it, I wouldn't trust some old media that had been sitting somewhere for god knows how long. Media is cheap, you can buy sponge and just cut it to fit.

If you add fish slowly and keep up with water changes (a small mid week, a larger weekly one) then you really don't have to cycle. It will happen by itself.

I'd go with the Betta first and once he's been living like a king for a month or so, then add two or three other small fish for company. The biofilter will adjust itself, the important thing is to get it established.

With regards to the light, if it's in a well lit room (should never be in direct sunlight) you won't need it, the fish don't need a light on them all day.


----------

