# Fins frayed and sudden death?



## ganymede264 (Feb 25, 2009)

Hello everyone,

Here are the details of my fish tank and the sick fish: 

*Tank Size:* my current tank is approximately 150 liters.

*Fish in the tank:* an asian arowana, an albino bichir (just dead this morning :-(), a six-barred distichodus, 2 flagtail prochilodus, a small pleco, 6 angel fish and 9 discus fish.

*Age of the fish:* these fish have stayed with me about 5 months.

*Infected fish:* 4 angel fish, 2 flagtail prochilodus and 2 discus fish 

*Symptoms and Medications in Use:* 
Last week, as I fed my fish a bit too much, the leftover food were scattered a lot at the bottom of the tank. Consequently, 4 angel fish, 2 flagtail prochilodus, 2 discus fish and a small pleco all had their fins frayed and one of the 4 angel fish got its caudal fin half-disintegrated. Hence, I had added 5 capsules of Furan 2 into the tank. After 2 days, I had repeated the same treatment. I always change 1/3 volume of the tank before adding any new dose of medicine and never feed the fish when they are just medicated; I often feed them after 24 hours of the last treatment. After 2 doses of Furan 2, fins of the mentioned fish stopped being disintegrated and one angel fish, which got its tail half-disintegrated, started to have his caudal fins back, but they still looked quite ragged. Before adding a new dose, I fed all fish in the tank and they had their food as usual. Until the beginning of this week, I have used 4 doses of Furan 2 (5 capsules/dose). Yesterday, those sick fish still didn’t get any better, so I changed the treatment into using Tetracycline (it’s a Japanese medicine for aquarium use). This morning, the albino bichir passed away; I saw that its fins were also frayed.
Another thing should be mentioned is that I've sometimes seen the six-barred distichodus chasing other fish in tank such as the 2 flagtail prochilodus, a few angel fish and discus fish, except the asian arowana! However, I haven't seen the six-barred distichodus bitting any fish obviously.
*Time the Symptoms occurred:* all of the mentioned fish have had those symptoms for 2 weeks.

*Water Parameters:* Recently, the pH is between 5.5-6.5 and the temperature is about 28C.

*Water Changes:* as mentioned, I changed 1/3 volume of the tank every time I added a new dose of medicine. When the fish aren’t sick, I change 1/3 volume of the tank twice a month.

*Feeding:* I often feed my fish 6 days a week.

*Tank History:* 2 or 3 months ago, 2 discus fish got fungal infection, yet they were cured, 1 discus fish got severe body rot so it passed away and because the heater was dysfunctional, the temperature was so high that it killed an albino bichir (my first one; I’ve got 2 albino bichirs, but they’re all gone ) and a tinfoil barb. My asian arowana had caught eye-cloud twice; but this time he doesn’t get the fin rot stuff, nor any trouble.

I am really frustrated as those medicines just don’t seem to work much. I really don’t know what kind of diseases that my fish had caught. I suspect that they might get tuberculosis!!!  

What should I do to help my fish to recover?

I really look forward to your advice as soon as possible! 

Many thanks,


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

OK, your kidding right?

150 Liters = 39.5 Gallons 

AND you have how many fish in there?


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## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

SueM said:


> OK, your kidding right?
> 
> 150 Liters = 39.5 Gallons
> 
> AND you have how many fish in there?


I sure hope so. You have too many fish for that size tank. The Discus do not belong with any of those other fish!


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

Agreed with WAY overstocked tank may be a huge part of it.

Asian Arowana needs a 200+G tank, which is something like 750Liters.

Angelfish, you can keep a PAIR in a tank that size, but not 6 of them. Same with the discus. But they can not be kept together.

The bichir should have been fine, but they are succeptable to ammonia spikes, which i almost guarantee is what killed him.

The Flagtail will need at least a 125G. We have one in the shop that's a foot long and has broken the glass before on our tanks. For two of them, you need a big tank.

The distochodus is also going to need a bigger tank. These guys can get BIG. I wouldnt recommend anything smaller than a 75 for them.


Where are you located?


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

With that many fish in a tank that size I am thinking ammonia poisoning.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Maybe ammonia, if something went wrong with the filter's good bacteria after all that medication, but it really sounds like a simple epidemic of nasty bacteria.

This tank needs some massive water changes & gravel cleaning to clean things up, and the use of MelaFix & PimaFix sure couldn't hurt. If the fish are still eating, find some medicated antibiotic fishfood and see if they'll eat that.

This tank is quite overcrowded, of course, but it's too late to worry about that at the moment. After this infection is stopped, another tank will be needed to house some of these fish in order to help prevent another outbreak.


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## ganymede264 (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks for your recommedation, I'll re-allocate all of these fish in this tank into other tanks after fixing this trouble.
This morning, I've just fed those fish and they ate their food as usual.
If this is an ammonia poisoning, what I should do to stop this problem at the moment? In fact, the LPS within my area doesn't sell MelaFix & PimaFix.
Shoud I continue to add another dose of Tetracycline or Furan 2? I heard of using a "combo" dose of Tetracycline and Ampicilin to cure fin rot.
Please help my fish to overcome this trouble!

Thanks,


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

See if your local stores carry something for ammonia, like Ammo-lock or Jungle brand ammonia buddies or whatever they're called.
Make a big water change, around 50%, and then hit them again with the medicine combination. Have some more water at the ready for another waterchange if needed afterward. Make sure that your filter has no carbon media in it, since it would only adsorb all the medicine.


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## ganymede264 (Feb 25, 2009)

I'll make 50% water change tomorrow, because I just fed my fish this morning. Unfortunately, the LPS here doesn't sell any ammonia detoxifier. I heard of many fish owners placing hornworts or duckweeds to control the ammonia level, can I apply this approach to my current tank? If I place hornworts or duckweeds in the tank, can I add the medicine into the tank together with those plants ('cos I'm afraid that the medicine would kill those plants)?

Thanks,


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That can work. Those meds shouldn't bother the plants, but the plants may absorb them a bit.


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