# Moving plants around in the tank make a HUGE difference (picture here)



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

I have come to realize that the way you arrange the ornaments play a HUGE part as to how happy the fish will be. One of my head and tail has gotten much bigger and started defending his territory against the big black skirts. I found it funny because he used to get chased, now it's the other way around. Also the black skirts were really starting to get nippy more with each other. 

I realized I needed to do something. I needed more plants instead of small ornaments.

I went and bought an Amazon Sword and another huge plant as well. I moved the ornaments around and now things are much better. They are no longer fighting like before. I see having more plants reduce the chance of fights. I also notice my oto is out on the amazon plant a lot as well! So I see him more.

It's good to know I'm still learning.

A little of topic here for a second. I cleaned the filter again the other day and on the bottem where the wheel turns and the water falls in the tank there was some white mucous like stuff hanging, so I just wiped it and cleaned it. Would anyone know what that is.

Anyhow, here is the picture of the way I set up the tank









http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tankofjoyuf5.jpg


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## AML225 (Feb 25, 2008)

Tank looks good, but you could use a lot more plants! I'm not good with stocking so I can't say whether or not your stocked however I would definitely recommend, if there's room, get more black skirts. In my experience they do well in 6+ numbers (4 is my personal min.) and are better off in even numbers. I had five and one was ostracized and abused by the others to death. Now I have four and they're thriving in my 20 long. Oto's are shoaling fish as well and will definitely be more prone to come out if you have a small shoal (4+). 

Now, and to be clear this is just my opinion, but look at the fish you have. Tetra's and Oto's are South American and live in dark color and earth tone areas. At least in my experience Oto's are very aware of where they are and stay in areas where they know they're camouflaged. It doesn't look like there are too many places for that to happen, hence your Oto is hiding all the time. This may also be causing the stress in your Tetras. I think you'd be fine if you lost the background and got some dark brown or black substrate, black sand looks really good. If you went with a black background your plants would glow and your fish would be both easy to see and feel more secure I think. Another thing to consider is that a lot of fish tend to brighten up in coloration when put against dark


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

AML225 said:


> Tank looks good, but you could use a lot more plants!


MORE!? 

Some people said it looks to crowded in there. I thought they needed a lot more swimming room? Would this really be a good idea? It gets hard to clean the more plants I have, this is why I took out the smaller ornaments as well. How would I get around this?



AML225 said:


> I'm not good with stocking so I can't say whether or not your stocked however I would definitely recommend, if there's room, get more black skirts. In my experience they do well in 6+ numbers (4 is my personal min.) and are better off in even numbers. I had five and one was ostracized and abused by the others to death. Now I have four and they're thriving in my 20 long.


No no, I don't think I can put any more in my tank. It's crowded as it is. Even some of the rummy nose are starting to get territorial, I never noticed this before. The 3 black skirts I do have do fight, however it's never serious enough as there is space to hide. I will think about getting rid of my head and tails, as one of them is getting big and getting territiorial. I do have one smaller black skirt but he stays out of the way and is safe enough.



AML225 said:


> Oto's are shoaling fish as well and will definitely be more prone to come out if you have a small shoal (4+).


The problem is, I don't think I have enough food for 4 of them, also they all seem to die. Just one is thriving quite nicely.



AML225 said:


> If you went with a black background your plants would glow and your fish would be both easy to see and feel more secure I think. Another thing to consider is that a lot of fish tend to brighten up in coloration when put against dark


Now this seems like some good advice. Maybe I will try it. I used this background to really colour things up and I used this stuff to make it shiny and light up more on the back of my tank. This is why it really glows. Would black still make my tank look good? I havent come across a black background yet, but I will look. 

Thank you for all the advice, I look forward to hearing from you again, as well as anyone else.


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## Plecostomus (Jul 31, 2006)

I don't think you need more live plants, but it's hard to have too many. As for the white mucousy stuff on your filter, I think it is probably mold from fish food. This is normal, it happens to me too. I guess what happens is some flakes evaporate and stick to the sides of the tank and white mold grows on it. I don't know if it's harmful to fish, but I would wipe it off anyway just to be safe.


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## AML225 (Feb 25, 2008)

I can't be sure what kind of white substance you're talking about but if it's whitish/gray I'd guess it's good nitrifying bacteria! 

You're certainly fine with the amount of plants as is but as was said you can never really have too many. The South American fish tend to come from rivers choked with vegetation. I have a well planted tank and it's cool to see my tetras weave in and out of all the plants. 

Oto's can be a little messy and are extremely sensitive to water conditions, they're sort of the Canaries in the mine shaft. I haven't lost one yet but I know that when I do it means somethings wrong with the water. I'm not saying anything is wrong with your water, chances are the move and change in water conditions shocked them. Next time, if you ever get more, acclimate them for much much longer than normal. Float the bag in the tank and poor half of a small glass in ever 15-20 minutes, keep doing this until it isn't practical to add any more, at that point let them sit for 20-30 minutes and finally add them. This is what I did with my four and they're all happy and healthy and VERY interesting fish. 

The whole black on black thing is just my theory but I can't imagine your fish feel at home with all the bright colors. My personal tank philosophy is to replicate as closely as possible the fish in their natural habitat. I chose a South American biotope for my tank, with all south american fish and tried to replicate the habitat as best as I could on a budget in a small tank. The color change might not make a huge difference but it'd be interesting to experiment with if you are ever craving an overhaul of the tank. I plan on doing it because I already have black sand and two sides of my tank are exposed to 2-3 hours of direct sunlight every day and I want to block that out.


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## AML225 (Feb 25, 2008)

Oops sorry forgot some pics. I'm in the process of aquascaping so I'm a little hypocritical right now with a lack of plants. I snapped these real quick with an older camera, I promise my plants don't really have a green aura around them. All real fish and plants. 

My Tank Pictures

Let me know if the album isn't working, I'm not totally sure it works with IE but I know it does with safari and firefox.


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## RSidetrack (Dec 31, 2007)

I have black "small" gravel and what was going to be a navy blue to black background that I custom made - well, it ends up looking all black because the blue is too dark, but I like it, makes the plants and fish really light up. I won't ever change it, so yes - black on black make things pop, and I think your fish would like it. I don't have a picture of with the background up yet but will soon enough.

As for the white mucus type stuff - I get that too and I will wipe it away from time to time. I am guessing bacteria build up/bio-slime build up.

Also - I don't think you can go too crazy with plants, look at Kristin's, a planted tank like that is amazing!


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

Where is a picture of her tank?

Also like I said it's hard to clean when I have so many plants to deal with. Cleaning the gravel is a pain especially when I don't want to move the plants every month! lol


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## fishboy689 (Jul 16, 2008)

Awesome tanks Knight and AML.
Plants also helped me two, fish could hide now


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

My understanding is the more plants you have, the less you need to clean. The idea of gravel-washing is to get the crud out before it decays and makes nitrates. But plants eat nitrates, people with lots of plants even add nitrates. Test you water and if your nitrates are under control, keep up the water changes, but don't worry about cleaning the gravel.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

emc7 said:


> My understanding is the more plants you have, the less you need to clean. The idea of gravel-washing is to get the crud out before it decays and makes nitrates. But plants eat nitrates, people with lots of plants even add nitrates. Test you water and if your nitrates are under control, keep up the water changes, but don't worry about cleaning the gravel.


Problem is, all my plants are fake. I figure it will be too much to maintain if they are real, and I don't want a snail population so I stick with the fake.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

Oh, I changed the background to black....guess what....they all hide now!

Take a look at my picture, and notice where the huge Amazon sword is by the palm tree.
They all stay under there now...so I need to figure out how to get them to the other side of the tank because they dont use it much! Maybe another amazon sword?
Would that be okay?


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

LOL real plants make everything easier with real plants all you have to do is do a water change ever week or so and youre done.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You've got nice fakes. Sure, add more. If the fish stay in planted part, they obviously like it better, so get more. Fish will be spooky for a few days after any change. I bet they go back to normal soon.


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## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

emc7 said:


> You've got nice fakes. Sure, add more. If the fish stay in planted part, they obviously like it better, so get more. Fish will be spooky for a few days after any change. I bet they go back to normal soon.


I have a rock and castle on the right side of my tank (behind the blue plant) now I am thinking to take that out and just leave mostly plants in that area. Seems like I have wasted my money buying smaller ornaments for the tank when they just want shelter under big plants.

My goodness I have done many renovations since I first got the tank. I thought by having this many plants it's too much, but from what I'm hearing it's not over crowded, the more the better! So I will do that.


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## Manthalynn (Aug 23, 2008)

Knight~Ryder said:


> Problem is, all my plants are fake. I figure it will be too much to maintain if they are real, and I don't want a snail population so I stick with the fake.



I shudder to think that I'm actually recommending Petco and Petsmart, but here goes: Petsmart sells plants in plastic containers that are guaranteed snail free. They're a little more expensive than free floating ones you purchase from a large tank, but I got a few of these after finding a handful of snails on some plants I bought elsewhere. (I'm in the Horticulture industry in California and snail free is a BIG deal here.) That being said, beware of what type of plant you buy there. Not all of them are aquatic plants (but in the stores defence...again shudder...they label them as aquarium and terrarium plants) but they do sell Anubias nana and Amazon Sword plant which are aquatic. My Anubias that I got from them is doing well and it's been in my tank at least 2 months.

From what I've read, _Spathiphyllum _(Umbrella plant), _Ophiopogon_ (Kyoto Grass) and _Seliginella_ (Peac0ck fern) are NOT aquatic plants but they do sell them at Petsmart so beware. They also sell _Dracaena_ (Ribbon Plant) which I doubt is an aquatic plant because it's sold as a potted tropical in other venues.

Good luck with finding the balance in your tank!


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