# Why is Breeding store bettas so bad?



## chocolatecrunch (May 21, 2010)

I didn't know if this should go in the breeding section or the betta section so yea...
Why are most breeders (and betta owners) SO against breeding store bought bettas? There are some truly beautiful bettas that are sold in stores...My betta, GummyBear, is really pretty and has good potential to create some lovely fry if I find the right female for him...But everyone says that it'll be a waste of your time and that the fry won't have the right colors, or the finnage will be all wrong. But what is your opinion on this and if you have bred "petstore bettas", what was the outcome?

Thanks!


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Most store type betta's are the culls or "black sheep" of the betta's. As most breeders know a true pure bred betta is worth $20-100/each. If you look on www.aquabid.com there are several dozen breeders with OMG betta's way better then what you can find in a store. Its also to help keep the gene's pure, and mixing store bought blood with home breeder blood just doesn't mix.

I bred several types of fish over the years, cichlids for example, see some nice specimen's in the store, but when you stop at a breeder's house and look, the quality is unquestionably better. If your to get a fish online, best time is now, before end of Oct.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its not that its bad in itself, but if you are going to spend the time and expense of raising fry, starting with "Good" fish will be a small investment with a big return. Store fish tend to look like the show fish of 10 years ago. Go to an IBC sanctioned betta show if you get a chance and you will be impressed by what is showing now.

If you breed mutts from the pound, you will get some nice dogs and you can selectively breed for better dogs. But if you breed dog show champions, you puppies will be pretty purebreds and be worth more. And if you are breeding a specific breed, you want the healthiest parents you can find from breeders that are careful to choose lineages to reduce defects from inbreeding. 

Store bettas are like puppy mill puppies, they have some of the purebred health problems without the quality of champions or the hardiness of wild fish. Worst of both worlds. You may get some nice fish, but also many others that won't pay for what they eat. Good parents will give you more nice fry and up your odds of breaking even.

Plus, its a matter of supply and demand. Stores pay so little for their bettas, I'd be surprised if they even offer you store credit. To make any sort of return, you need something special and hard to find in your area.

I think you should "practice" breeding store bettas. When you learn enough that you can keep the pair alive through spawning and lots of the fry alive to a salable size, then go splurge on some really nice breeders.


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## chocolatecrunch (May 21, 2010)

yea...I mean, store bettas CAN be really pretty, but nothing compared to what I see online (I wanted to buy from this nice breeder before I got GummyBear, but I didn't want to risk it dying while being delivered.). 
But do you think if I bred my betta with a somewhat good (store or "minor" breeder) female betta, what do you think the fry will be like? 
I agree with you em. It's better to practice on some store bettas and have your fry die (or the parent bettas!!!) instead of wasting a good 50 bucks on show quality bettas and end up killing them because you don't know how to properly spawn betta. 
Anyway, What do you think the outcome of this little fellow may be? My main goal is obtain a more blue body and to elimanate the blue streaks from the dorsal fins but make longer blue rays in the caudal fin (tail). I also want to increase the leangth of the fins over time but It may take a few spawns to get what I want!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

It can take generations to get what you want, so make sure that this is the multi-year project you really want to work on. You time and effort are valuable, choose wisely. As for how difficult any betta genetic stuff is, thats out of my league. You need specific knowledge from a betta breeder, so try the IBC or other betta board.


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Good point on the puppy mill/betta. About the shipping risk, most big breeders online that are shipping its safe to say they prolly know what they are doing, because most offer a live arrival guarantee, now you have me thinking of getting a betta! We don't have any space here for an aquarium so i have to give it up, and took up flower gardening, which can be rewarding! but i bet i can get a betta bowl  I really like them Edge aquariums they have out only few gallons and look hot!


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## chocolatecrunch (May 21, 2010)

yea, bettas are great. I'm thinking about getting a 2 bowl (well, not thinking...I AM getting it) for another betta  Sorry, that was a really bad pic (stupid cameraphone!), so I eddited it an put in a new one...
I think I'll still try breeding GummyBear and see what I get. I think a blue female with red fins may work...After that I'll just wing it 

EDIT: If anyone could look at my betta pic and tell me what type of betta he is, I would be really happy! The store sold him to me saying he was a "doubletail halfmoon" but he doesn't look like a halfmoon...Maybe a doubletail rosetail? 
Thanks!


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## chocolatecrunch (May 21, 2010)

Do you think I would have better luck if I spawned GummyBear with a SHOW quality female? I found this beaty on aquabid but I'm still thinking about purchasing her or not...
It's just that the bid for her is almost up (ends today at 4:00 or something) and I only have twenty bucks (wich is what she costs) and I am using that to open a bank acount and bla bla bla...Long story short, I don't have the proper housing for her and I don't have the money. 
BUT, if no one bids on her, maybe the seller will put her back up for sale and by then I may have a chance at getting her??? 
Oh well, her is a her pic:









Here is another pic of a different female betta that I like:









Here are two links to some female bettas I REALLY REALLY like (Vid at bottom of page):

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1282923205

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1282923235


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## chocolatecrunch (May 21, 2010)

Are any of the female bettas good matches for GummyBear (if so, wich one is best???)... I'm thinking the 1st or 3rd ones are nice but I just want to get everyones opinion.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

They are all lovely. Remember to figure in tax (sometimes) and shipping. Looks like that betta would cost you $5 to get it to a transhipper (middleman). But then you'd need to pay the transhipper's fee plus the "local" shipping from the transhipper to you. So it could well cost more $20 to get her to you. If you don't understand anything about a listing, e-mail the seller. Make sure you know every cost outside of the bid price before you bid.

I guess you should save up while you look for closer fish. Where are you, approximately?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I guess there is also the issue of mixed lines. A betta bred for one color, or one type of fins will give mostly fry that look like the parent. But a lot of store bettas have mixed genetics so the fry are more varied. Even if you breed fish that look alike. You get some neat-looking fish, but you might have to take many, many generations to "fix" a trait in a line so you can get it reliably. If you start with known fish, you could play with one trait at a time. Say color. You could pick fish that have the same fins and different colors and know that all the fry, whatever color, will have the same nice fins. With unknown, mixed stock, all the traits could vary. To get a nice consistent line out of mixed stock, you have to "reinvent the wheel", that is, do lots of work that others have already done. 

If you just want to breed some fish and see what happens, go right ahead. You can do whatever you want with your time. Think about what you are looking to get out it. If you only want a few nice bettas and are willing to sell or cull the rest, you are likely to get some you like out of any two parents you like.


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## chocolatecrunch (May 21, 2010)

Thanks  I know all about shipping and everything...I'm guessing everything will come to $30-$40 dollers. I decided to get a pure white female


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

the pics on your other thread were very nice. Best of luck


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