# 1st saltwater tank



## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

im wanting to start a 30 gallon saltwater tank with live rock. i have had freshwater and have kept it for a while and am experienced with that but not saltwater. i was wondering how much it would cost for a saltwater, and the things i need to have cost? i already have the sand and tank. i dont want to go cheap, or get poor quality on the important things such as a filter, and lighting.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Everyone is most likely to say that that is to small. It is, unless you want to do A LOT of maintenance. Not to send you away from the hobby or anything, but go as big as you can go. It takes longer for the water to go bad, as the volume dilutes the problem. Also, do you ever plan on having corals? Lastly, do you want a sump in the tank? A lot of the the time, the materials needed are completely different based on what knid of tank you want. Oh, and for the cost, estimate about $10/gallon (I think... this may be the used cost; but if not, the price for used equipment is much less.)

Get back to us soon! Okay?!


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

by too small do you mean too small for a beginner or just too small for saltwater? and it will be a fowlr tank and a few inverts like crabs and shrimp to start out with. i would get a bigger tank if i could find one with the same dimensions as my 30 gallon rectangle, so it could fit on my stand, this would be a taller tank, but having trouble finding one. i would really like to keep it just 30. i do have a deionizer and it works good. i have read up on the testing i will have to do, and proper way to change water. its mainly the lighting, protien skimmers, and filters that have me confused. i dont know what to get. i guess u mean a protien skimmer when you said sump? or is this a different filter?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

a sump is a secondary tank kept typically underneath the big tank usually hidden away under the stand. this increases the amount of gallons of your tank without actually increasing the size or your tank. it does allow you to have more fish but with a tank this small the reason you will want it is because it will make it harder to screw up. nano tanks are typically for more advanced salt water keepers. how a sump works is you create a vacuum that draws water down just like a gravel vac then a pump pushes the water back up. otherwise you can get a tank that is pre drilled which is much easier and safer to run a sump. having a taller tank that will fit on your im assuming 29 gallon stand isn't going to be practicle and i dont believe there are any other tanks that fit those dimensions asside from getting a custom built tank. longer and wider is going to be much better than a taller tank. protien skimmers arn't really confusing. they are a device that hooks up to the tank that skims the excess protien off the surface of the water. salt water is much more dense then fresh water causing the protien and everything to rise to the surface and create a filmy lair which can choke off oxygen exchange and is toxic. i think i have that right. im not to good with saltwater so i could be a little bit wrong.


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

thanks for the info. so i will probably need a skimmer, sump and a good filter, because this being my first one and also smaller than recommend for beginners. do you or anyone know of good recommended filters (canister probably), sumps, and skimmers? also will i need any power heads or is the tank small enough to have good water flow with the filter, sump, and skimmer. also the way u mention the skimmer worked is that it drwas water out like a gravel vac. is that like siphoning the water out? what if the power goes out and the water is still geting sucked out, but not pumping back in?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

if u get a sump put whatever filter u get on the sump less clutter in the tank. you can actually put a power head down on the sump to to help oxygenate the water. being salt water is so dense there is less oxygen which is the biggest reason u cant have as many fish so the more oxygenation you have the better. unless you have fish that like heavy current or corals that need it u can probably get away with not having a powerhead or filter in the tank. as long as the sump is drawing enough water down and back up to circulate the tank well enough. perhaps it would be best to have atleast a small powerhead running inside the tank just to be certain your getting enough oxygen exchange. there are sumps that will do that but certain sump set ups have fail safe systems on them i think they are for pre drilled tanks with overflows. its actually not hard and pretty cost effective to buld your own sump. a 20 high would probably fit perfect under your stand unless u can fit another 29 if u can id do that. could even make it into a refugem which is a very nice thing to have but i know nothing about making them. if u dont have a fail safe system the best way to avoid water on the floor from power going out is to have your hose that draws the water down set up high enough up and your sump drained low enough that the amount of water that will draw down before it stops will only fill the sump. then to have your pump that pushes the water back up set up high enough within the sump that it will run dry before overflowing to much.


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

wow thanks for the info. that kinda gives me an idea of how i would like to set it up. didnt think about puting a filter on the sump. i dont have a predrilled tank, though. what materials would i need to build my own. i may build one and give it a try on my fresh water tank now, to test before. im guessin a smaller tank, some hoses and some kind of pump to push the water back in?


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

The skimmer is the filter. It pumps in water and mixes in billions of micro bubbles. The organics in the water stick to the bubbles, where they overflow into a storage unit. You can have another filter, but with this small a tank, you won't need one. More on this later.


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

so now i dont need a filter lol man this more confusing than i thought. glad to know though. i will have a couple of hang on filters leftover though, maybe it wouldnt hurt to put them to use on the sump?


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

thanks for all the help guys


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Sorry, I'm back.

"The skimmer is the filter. It pumps in water and mixes in billions of micro bubbles. The organics in the water stick to the bubbles, where they overflow into a storage unit." This is really all it is, bubbles in water in a tube. this will take out all of the organics, and you clean the collection cup about once a week. Simple. Sadly though, EXPENSIVE!!! I'm trying a DIY that I drew up a plan for. I'll post the plans if it works. Keep asking questions, but also read some books. I'm sure you are, but read read read read read!!!! The one that helped me the most was *The complete book of the marine aquarium* by Vincent B. Hargreaves. Good book.

You can by all means use your old filters in a FOWLR setup, but if you add corals, you'll definitely need a skimmer. (You should use one anyways!!!)

Ask questions and read, and talk to us soon!


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

thank you for the help


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

the skimmers dont provide biological filtration tho. i know things in the tank contain the biological bacteria but not enout water passess directly through it to have enough affect to neutralize the ammonia and such. you can set up a filter inside the semp home made basically where the water is drawn into the sump on one end then has to pas through big sheets of filter media in stages before going back to the pump that returns the water to the top. may be more cost affective and fool proof compared to a mechanical filter that parts can go bad on. just an idea dont know how well it would work if it got gunked up maybe it wouldnt allow enough water to pass through so one side would overflow while the other ran dry. i think bioballs wouldnt be a bad idea in the sump. also look into a refugem there are many threads about them and they have amazing benefits.


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

thinking bout 15 sump with refugium, bio balls, and just throwing my hangon filter on it. probably have skimmer hanging on the back of the display tank.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

The Live rock is where the bio filtration comes from! LR with a skimmer in the sump = one natural looking tank! Bio balls also work well in the sump, especially a really small tank. I don't know where College Reefer, TOS, and other SW pros are. They've been on the FW, but not here. (Sorry,if I didn't mention your names other pros; TOS and CR were the first ones to pop into my head.)

GET A BIGGER TANK IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT!!!!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

20 gallon for the sump is eaven better and 15 gallons can be tough to find usually only on special order. unless u are just using a bin or something.


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## WCMS (Aug 6, 2010)

im not to sure i could fit a 20 under the tank. im pretty low on space in my room, and i cant fit a bigger stand. a little low on money too. are there any advantages on having the skimmer in the sump instead of the tank? other than hiding it? 15, maybe a 20 gallon sump will be all i can get. if i put the skimmer on the sump i would have a skimmer (left) return (middle) refug (right) type of setup, with my leftover biowheel on the return part or refug just for fun. or i could have skimmer on the tank leaving room for bio ball (where the skimmer would be) return middle and refug right. i wouldnt mind having the skimmer on the tank, looks kinda cool i think. what do you guys think? im not sure how much room a 15 would leave me for a refug (just sand and lr), if i go 15 i may just have to have a return with bio balls and other half refug.


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