# 10 gallon betta tank (multiple bettas)



## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

I just got a good deal on a 10 gallon tank with a nice stand. I have four bettas, and i would like to put at least three in the 10 gallon. 
Should i bother cycling? I already have a heater, and i use sponge filters.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Yes, you should "bother" cycling. I hope to God those are either all females, or you are going to use dividers to keep them all apart.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

geeez, you sounded sorta rude? you could had asked nicely and not made me feel like you were jumping to conclusions. 
Yes they are all males, and of course i use a divider.
i have heard in a couple of good places to not bother cycling my 5.5 gallon of bettas, so I was wondering about the 10 gallon.


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## Kageshi17 (Sep 6, 2006)

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHa...

wow...betta enthusiasts are sure aggressive...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA...yes


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

even they are all female, don't keep them together without a divider. they fight just as bad as male.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

One should never put a fish in a tank without cycling, regardless of the species of fish or the size of the tank. That was terrible advice IMO.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i have kept bettas for 7 years in uncycled yet filtered tanks ranging from 1 gallon to 3 gallons.

never had a problem. however i did test my ammonia nearly every day and i always have at least one water change to do a day.


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

Boxermom said:


> One should never put a fish in a tank without cycling, regardless of the species of fish or the size of the tank. That was terrible advice IMO.


i have a disagree with this a little bit. in my gallon jar and quart jar, i never cycle the tank. i just do 100% water change often and my fish is doing well. beginner SHOULD NOT do it, but i just point this out to let you know that there is exception to the rule.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I stand by my statement.  You asked for advice, I gave it. If you don't like the advice, feel free to disregard it. Your fish, your tanks, do what you want.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

I agree 100% with boxerman, why would u put a fish in an uncycled tank. Makes no sense to me!!!:-?


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

Betta5 said:


> I agree 100% with boxerman, why would u put a fish in an uncycled tank. Makes no sense to me!!!:-?


lol... boxerman... you mix up the gender...

back on the topic, the reason i did it because i have many betta (i am a breeder) and there is only fish and water in the jar. i change water 100% so often that it doesn't even have time to cycle(100% water change a few times a week) if you have only one tank and not plan on change water that often, just stick with cycle. the non-cycle thing is only for people who change water often. the frequent large volumn water change is the key to grow healthy and fast growing betta.

plus in the dark age of fish keeping(my grandpa's time) he keep fish in tank that didn't cycle at all. no gravel, no plant, just light and filter and heater. he do the water change twice a week. he never heard of what is cycle either, but the fish is healthy and actually breed in the tank. again, DO NOT do it if you are beginner. you only ask for trouble if you do it. but this is just an example that you can actually keep fish without cycle the tank. of course it can only be done with hardy fish, since the fish widely available is generally hardy fish.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Boxermom and aaa are both correct. A 1-3 gallon jar will never get cycled because normally (not always) there is no filter on them. We change the water too often to establish any kind of bacteria. Add the fact that is normally no substrate.....................

A 10 gallon tank should always be cycled. There is no reason not to. Its the smallest "tank" that can readily hold an ecological cycle. Could you put all 3 bettas in the tank divided and keep changing water everyday.....sure. But the question is why? A few weeks is all it takes to cycle a 10 gallon tank. Then waterchanges will come weekly or bi-weekly. You risk too much for too little gain when not properly cycling a tank no matter what fish you put in there..................


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## Sicy (Oct 2, 2006)

*peeks in slightly intimidated* lol

I'm assuming for a 2 gallon tank and one betta you just fill with tap, add conditioner and leave for 24 hours before adding the fish? Then do regular (half?) water changes?

:fish:


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Sort of... At 2 gallons, a tank is too small to cycle, so a water change must be done almost daily to keep the ammonia levels down. If you bump up to a 5-10gallon, then yes, you can cycle (in which case one should wait for the cycle to be complete before adding the betta - 2-10days) and do weekly 30-50% water changes.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Sorry guys, I would have to disagree that you can't keep a small tank cycled. Maybe not a "jar" but definitely a tank. All of my tanks are cycled, including the 1g tank. I use small palm HOB filters rated for up to 5 gallons, even on my 1g bowfront tank. I can't use the cover on that tank because of the filter, so I got a plastic embroidery square thingie and cut it to fit so that the betta can't escape. I've never had a problem with keeping it cycled. The filter fits perfectly on the 2.5g tanks, too, even with the hood on. And they are extremely inexpensive, $5.99 at Drsfostersmith.com.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9821&N=2004+22769

Where there's a will, there's a way.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Boxermom said:


> Sorry guys, I would have to disagree that you can't keep a small tank cycled. Maybe not a "jar" but definitely a tank. All of my tanks are cycled, including the 1g tank. I use small palm HOB filters rated for up to 5 gallons, even on my 1g bowfront tank. I can't use the cover on that tank because of the filter, so I got a plastic embroidery square thingie and cut it to fit so that the betta can't escape. I've never had a problem with keeping it cycled. The filter fits perfectly on the 2.5g tanks, too, even with the hood on. And they are extremely inexpensive, $5.99 at Drsfostersmith.com.
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9821&N=2004+22769
> 
> Where there's a will, there's a way.


We differ in what is the determining factor of what a "tank" is. The way I see it, by your own definition, anything can be called a tank; even a cup if you stick a filter on it. And yes you can cycle a 1 gallon tank/jar but the amount of bacteria that can be established is much smaller and you do run a higher risk of bio-overload in smaller tanks/jars.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

How often do you need to change the water in a one gallon "tank"? I would expect that in a one-gallon tank, the ammonia would build pretty quickly even with filtration?

Zoe


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I change the water weekly, 90% of it, in the smaller tanks. No, ammonia doesn't build up at all. The amount of bacteria that is established is sufficient for the bioload. None of my tanks are bare, they all contain at least some substrate and at least one plant (artificial or otherwise). For instance, in my 1 gallon tank (and by tank, I mean tank, not cup with a filter on it  ), I have about a half inch of gravel and a small, multi-leaf silk plant. All contain bacteria, just as the media in the HOB does. Sufficient to handle a single betta and a couple of very small (smaller than a dime) ramshorn snails. Once it was cycled, I have never had a reading of ammonia or nitrite, and the nitrates are very low. There's no difference in cycling a small tank as opposed to a large tank, IMO. And just as with a large tank, the amount of bacteria will be sufficient to handle the bioload as long as its properly cycled and no additional bioload is added.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Hmm, food for thought! Maybe it's time to move the ol' boy out of the vase (NOT a betta vase but a big glass thing that he's in)


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

So what is the definition of a tank?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Depends on who you talk to. Take your pick. For me, this is what I'm referring to:
http://www.petco.com/Shop/petco_Pro...17_N_38+115+30_sku_378895_familyID_15340.aspx

Merriam-Webster Online defines tank as:
1 dialect : POND, POOL; especially : one built as a water supply
2 : a usually large receptacle for holding, transporting, or storing liquids (as water or fuel)
3 : an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks
4 : a prison cell or enclosure used especially for receiving prisoners

msn Encarta defines it as: 

1. large container: a large container for storing liquids or gases
2. amount held by tank: the amount of liquid or gas that a tank holds
bought a tank of gas
3. container for fish: a sturdy container with rectangular glass sides, used for keeping live fish or reptiles in
4. pond or reservoir: a fairly small body of water, especially one used for water storage
5. jail: prison, or a prison cell ( informal ) 
6. military armored vehicle: a large armored combat vehicle with treads, a rotating turret, and a heavy gun
7. dress Same as tank top
8. photog container for developing film: a lightproof container for developing film, designed so that processing chemicals can be poured in and out without light entering
9. photog tray for processing sheets of film: a large tray or container for processing a number of sheets of film together

Let me know if you want me to continue getting definitions for ya.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Officially, it's a receptacle holding liquid (or gas). For fishkeeping, I would assume that it is any glass-sided tank with 4 sides and a bottom... Conceivably, you could have a 1litre tank...


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

So acrylic-side containers aren't tanks?


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

the issue for me is not the tank is too small to cycle, is i don't want to spend money on a filter on every little jar i have. yes, the filter is $6 a piece and it is not expensive, but let's say a beginner betta breeder have 50 jars and that is $300 there. to me it is not worth it to spend so much money and time. it is far better off to change water more often. plus the thing about water changing in betta jar is not only the ammonia and stuff like that, it is also about the hormone that betta produce when they grow up. they release that to slow other's growth so they can have less competition, but in the betta jar, the amount is going to be more concentrate and it is going to harm the betta, and you can't remove it unless there is water change. it is better to have a few water change over a week than once a week to clean that out. so here is my reason why my betta jar not cycle. you don't have to agree over this, but this is just my opinion


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I wasn't aware that we were discussing betta breeders, just small tanks/containers and the ability/necessity of cycling them.


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

that's just my reason of why not....


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

thanks for the replies. I have been away so i couldn't answer sooner.
I was 80% sure i needed to cycle my ten gallon, but i was told (and believe it) that my 5.5 was a waste of time to cycle. the cycle kept breaking without my knowledge and my water conditions would get crazy! Luckily no fish were hurt and all are still doing fine. 

i recall reading somewhere that it is harder to cycle a tank if it is bare bottomed or has marbles instead of gravel? true or false? I love how a bare bottom tank with just a few marbles or stones in it looks. And do you think it is fine for me to stick with my sponge filters? I was thinking of using two, one on each side of the tank since these are met for under 5 gal tanks. If not what filter do you recommend in a 10 gal with bettas. I have used other filters before and they took up so much room and caused too much current. needless to say, my bettas were not happy!

thanks in advance. It will be a couple of days before i can reply again.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> i recall reading somewhere that it is harder to cycle a tank if it is bare bottomed or has marbles instead of gravel? true or false?


True. That gravel is a great place for beneficial bacteria to love and thrive. Get into some live plants and you'll appreciate the gravel  Or sand?



> And do you think it is fine for me to stick with my sponge filters?


No, go with a carbon and sponge filter. Just one will suffice if its rated for your tank size (if it's a 10gal, go with a filter for 20-30 gallons). Also, if you have two filters it will create a lot of water current, and bettas prefer calmer water. There are reasonable-sized filters out there. I have one on a 10gallon and it's fine  I think it's an AquaClear 20 or something like that.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

oops sorry, it is a carbon & sponge filter.

these filter is use are called Penn Plax (i think)
they are a little fliter that hooks into your areation and has carbon on the top and sponge on the bottom.

i can also make them produce tons of bubbles or just a few by using this gage thing i got where you can change how much air goes into what tube.
i hope i am making since here! LOL


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I suggest you with a HOB (Hang off the back) filter. They are better, quieter, and won't cause as much water current.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I know killi people who don't cycle their tanks either, just move the fish to the next "tank" down the line, then dump, refill and repeat. But they are under 3 galllons and they do have a "mini" filter consiting of an airline and filter floss. They also do this every day. As long as the ammonia is removed before it reaches a stressful level, the method doesn't matter. But I can't trust myself to never to get sick and miss a day so I cycle everything (not as hard as it sounds, once you have an established tank, you can "charge" a sponge in 12 hours.)


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2006)

manda said:


> geeez, you sounded sorta rude? you could had asked nicely and not made me feel like you were jumping to conclusions.
> Yes they are all males, and of course i use a divider.
> i have heard in a couple of good places to not bother cycling my 5.5 gallon of bettas, so I was wondering about the 10 gallon.


maybe the fins are all chewed up


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2006)

manda said:


> i have kept bettas for 7 years in uncycled yet filtered tanks ranging from 1 gallon to 3 gallons.
> 
> never had a problem. however i did test my ammonia nearly every day and i always have at least one water change to do a day.


then why ask the question manda?


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> then why ask the question manda?


Because there is always room for method improvement, and learning new techniques, and second opinions?


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

I disagree about always having to cycle a tank. Why bother cycling when you can just switch a filter and other things carrying the bacteria from a cycled tank? IME that works fine. Or am I missing something here and that's also called cycling?


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I think that might call under the 'instant cycle' category. If you move a fish from a tank to another tank that has the bacteria necessary to the cycle (or move those bacteria into the first tank), I'd think that that tank would be considered 'cycled'... As opposed to just completely replacing the water on a regular basis and relying on the water change to remove the ammonia as opposed to bacteria.


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