# rainbow snakeheads!



## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

hi, just wondering oculd I keep a rainbow snakehead in a 36"x14"x14"
(22 gal)?
would it have to in by itself?
and just general info please,
thanks


Also could I keep a marbled bichir in a same sized tank?


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## ALFA WOLF (May 24, 2005)

HOw many Ornaments are u puttign in (including grasses) and i dont know about the bichir


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You cant keep any other fish with that one short of large barbs which won't fit in a 20 gallon tank or large botias (again too big for that tank). They are a smaller species of snakehead (8 inches) but still really need more room than a 20 gallon tank. They may also be illegal in your area despite seeing them for sale in local markets or smaller fishstores. They perfer hard alkaline water with bright lighting. 35 gallons would be the minimum I would use for this fish and I would add loaches, not large barbs in this tank.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I think I will just be putting in some wood, sand (probably), and some plants (don't know what though),

They are not illegal where I am from,
I am not bothered about keeping it by itself, I have a book and it says that rainbows only get about 6", and I have asked people and they have said that they could be kept in a 36"x14"x14" tank,
I just wanted a second opinion,


Anything on the bichirs?



Also how the hell do you say "bichirs"?


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

come on, has no one got an idea?


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Beats me, Im bad at pronouncing fish names. I call them bee -sheers
both "I"s sound like "e"s

and I agree with simpte, no bichir or snakehead will fit in a 20 gallon. I think senegals are the smallest bichirs, and they get a foot+ long needing 55 gallons.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

what about a rainbow snakehead?
they only get 6" right?
surely this can fit into a 22 gal?


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

rainbow snakeheads get around 8 inches and I think shouldnt have any tank mates.


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## Guest (May 31, 2005)

i wouldnt put it in anything less that 30 gallons...


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

okhen, what other oddballs, could I have in here?
Lepard Bush fish?


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## fishboy (Feb 26, 2005)

i wish i could get a snakehead but they're illegal in PA


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

huh? Lepard Bush fish? would that be a spotted climbing perch?

they get like 8 inches, or 6" and are anabantids just like the rainbow snakehead. I still think 20 gallons is too small. I'd say minimum 40 gallons.


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## Guest (May 31, 2005)

They can get to be 7"....i dunno about them either


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## Guest (May 31, 2005)

exactly, what shev said


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

20 gallon would be pushing it for a snake head more like 40 min. Where are you from? some snakeheads are illegal in the states. Even though you may see one at your local lfs... they still maybe illegal. Also I don't think much can go with them.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

England.

OK, so I can't have a lepard bush fish (spotted climbing perch)
or a snakehead,
what about a leaf fish?
or any other suggestions,

thanks,


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

or a babywhale, I like these?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

There are really no "oddball" fish that will fit in a 20 gallon tank. They are oddballs because of appearance and size. Very few have the requirements to house them or don't want to "waste" space with just one fish in a large tank.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

how big do baby whales get?
What could go in with a butterfkyfish,
Fresh water Flounders?


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

what about leaf fish?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Google is your friend.................


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

*re*

I know, it's just I have found so many different things,
so could I keep a SA leaf fish (about 4-5 of them) in a 22 gallon tank, I am talking about the ones that get 4",
???


Also any ideas on the price of them in England?


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

and are they interesting to watch?


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

again, i hate common names with oddballs because they overlap so much with similar species.

yeah, they are quite interesting to watch. maybe not to active, they float around acting like a dead leaf (fun is an opinion) which I think is pretty interesting. then when its prey comes into sight they open their mouth (gigantic mouth) and catch the prey.

monocirrhus polyacanthus is probably what you are talking about. but Polycentrus schomburgki is around the same size. slightly more agressive I think.

no offense, but is this your first tank? usually the rarer the fish, or more of an oddball means they are somewhat more difficult to keep. like the leaf fish. they are mainly piscivorous and you'd need a source of live fish to feed them, and they eat a lot. they also require some pretty soft and acidic water being from S america and are sensitive. they also like live plants. leaf fish are no beginner fish.

but they should fit in a 20 gallon.


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

j55 said:


> how big do baby whales get?
> What could go in with a butterfkyfish,
> Fresh water Flounders?


baby whales.... 20 gallon is barely too small.

butterfly fish should fit in a 20 gallon. dont keep them with the leaf fish, I doubt they'd appreciate the soft acidic water being from africa.

fw flounders are brackish fish. but yes, they will fit in a 20 gallon. dont mix with leaf fish either.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

thanks for all your advice,

this will be my second tank, but I don't like the "common species" that everyone else goes foe, I really want something different,
my water is fine,
I am willing to meet their requirments, as for the live food, aparently they can be weaned onto dead foods, i.e. muscles, also I can feed them mealworms, as I have a lizard,


so lets say:

5 leaf fish,
ina 22 gal tank, my tap water is already soft acidic, (I will condition it aswell)
I will try and get them onto, dead foods, and mealworms,

Everyone happy?
Or is this not the way to go?

Also how do I feed the meal worms?
Do I just drop them in front of them? (as they don't move ofen)


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You could possibly use a worm cone for feeding them. Sits on the inside of the tank toward the top. Looks like a kitchen collander in appearance. May work.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

*re*

use that for mealworms?

what about my idea, would that work?


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2005)

NO!
get a bigger tank!


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

well from what I have heard, they don't need a bigger tank,
come on, if they hardly ever move, they are only 4"...
come on think about it,


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

any other types oddballs that anyone could recomend?
(If I can't have a leaf fish)


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2005)

sorry, i was reading the posts on the first page


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## fishboy (Feb 26, 2005)

I also wanted "unusual fish" and couldn't find anthing to fit want i had (10 gallons). good luck as for me...i gave up


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

5 in a 20 gallon is pushing it. even though that'd only be 20 inches of fish, I'd go with 4. they can be kept together, just make sure there isnt much of a current.

while you ween them onto dead things (not prepared foods, they'd starve before they ate flakes, probably not even freeze dried) I suggest having a supply of live food. like fish, worms and crustaceans. picky, sensitive fish. but they do eat a lot. dunno if they'll eat meal worms. I'd try to ween them onto frozen foods, but dont starve them to death trying.

again, not a beginner fish, but if you are hell bent on getting them, just keep their water params right. I'd start out with maybe 1 or 2. just so you can get a little aquainted with personalities, and requirements.

I'm guessing they are somewhat pricey.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

price isn't really a problem, unless it is really high,
thing is I cant really provide fish, I don't really know what else to feed them,
Like I said I am willing to consider anything else, I really like these fish, only problem is I can't feed them live foods,
I supose I will have to go with something else, please give me suggestions,



What other live foods, apart from feeders?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

shev said:


> baby whales.... 20 gallon is barely too small.
> 
> butterfly fish should fit in a 20 gallon. dont keep them with the leaf fish, I doubt they'd appreciate the soft acidic water being from africa.
> 
> fw flounders are brackish fish. but yes, they will fit in a 20 gallon. dont mix with leaf fish either.


These shouldn't be mixed, I agree, but the flounders will only fit in a 20 when very young. They grow to over 6 inches.

Mormyrids like these are mildly electric, so bear in mind that they'll drive the other fish crazy in such a small tank with nowhere to run. They're juice is only used for food finding and navigation, and is low-powered, but it's constant and annoying. By the way, never add salt to a tank with mormyrids.

Well, if Pantodons (butterflies) came from the rift lakes that might be true, but Africa is a big place. While Monocirrus is from South America, Polycentrus is African. ( isn't Ctenopoma Asian? ) Aside from territorial issues at feeding time, butterflies might get along okay with leaffish as long as the butterflies are big enough to discourage the leafs from trying to eat them. I've spawned butterflys in a 20 gallon tank, much to my surprise, so they'll adapt to a 20.

Aw, nuts...what a mess of quote replying I've made. Maybe it won't be too hard to figure out what I mean. 

Sorry for the nitpicking.
5 leaffish in a 22 gallon tank is probably too many. Sure, they don't move much, but when they do... hooboy. Predators in general have territories, and these assassins won't like having so much competition nearby. Not schoolers, these guys.
They can be trained to eat all sorts of stuff, but it'll take awhile, so have plenty of live food options available like fairy shrimp, worms, feeder fish, mealworms, insects, etc...


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## sumpthinfishy (Jan 21, 2005)

I have a question about flounder. Are these the same type of flounder that would be caught in the wild? If so, I cannot imagine them fitting into anything other than a pretty huge tank when grown. We catch them fishing and they're VERY large. If this is a whole 'nother type, nevermind. Just was surprised to see them recommended for such a small tank. I would think 100+.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Trinectes maculatus 
is the Hogchoker Sole, known in the hobby as the Freshwater Flounder. This isn't the normal flounder you're likely to catch, and it stays quite small in comparison. It isn't really a freshwater fish, though. It lives in saltwater and spawns in freshwater. The young eventually work their way back downriver to the sea. These young are the ones seen in the trade.
The river running by my hometown is chock full of them every late spring/early summer.


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## sumpthinfishy (Jan 21, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I was wondering how in the heck the ones we catch would fit in such a small tank. I'm relieved!


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

OK,but will the LF take mealworms straight away?
also what about elephant noses, or do I need a bigger one for more?(beceause of electric feilds)

So a butterfly would be OK?

I am not really sure about the leaf fish now, them seem like a lot of work, I am willing to put the effort in, but is there any other oddball that would be good for me?


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

also if I put my hand in the tank would the butterfly jump out?
And would a leaf fish bite me if my hand was in the tank?
And could armoured shrimp go in the tank?


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

hey oldsalt, are there two different kinds of fw flounder that are similar? I thought I read there was an american one, then one from peru. I have one in a lightly salted 20. you think I'd have to move it to a 55 when it gets to be around 6 inches? I have a Achirus lineatus

my butterfly is pretty territorial to my gouramis, and thats in a 55 gallon.

butterfly fish love to jump put. I hear him thud the roof of the tank every time a fish startles him. but usually when I open the lid he swims downward and to the side.

what kind of shrimp? a 4 inch leaf fish can eat something 2 inches long. african butterfly fish also like to eat crustaeceans, their "feeler" things are used to find food where their eyes cant see.

I doubt they will bite you. their mouth extends and opens into a tuble like thing that they use to eat fish.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Achirus is a different fish from the one I described, but so similar it's hardly worth noting the difference. The American one Trinectes maculatus, is found all the way down into South America, and the Achirus is found up here as well. They overlap so much, in fact, that its hard to tell that Achirus isn't just a new name for Trinectes.
Anyway, yes, you'll probably have to add a bit more salt at it grows, but maybe not. Take a look at the distribution maps and decide for yourself. I'm sure there are landlocked specimens in the wild doing just fine in freshwater.

Those wings aren't just for show. Butterflies are practically freshwater flying fish, and they can jump with the best.

A leaf fish bite? Heh. I doubt it, and if it did, you'd probably never notice.
Shrimp would be a yummy snack for leaffish.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

even armoured ones?
Also I have been reading an old PFK magasine, and in the oddballs part, it says that a "rope fish" can be found up to 36" in the wild, but rarely reach 12" in aquariums,
and it says that 36"x14" would be fine (ground space),


Also is there any way to stop the butterfly from jumping out?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Rope fish are great... I have one in my 125 gallon tank. The info you saw on the Rope Fish was correct. They do get that long in the wild, but usually much smaller in aquariums... In my opinion, that's mainly because people put them into tanks too small for them. I wouldn't even consider putting one in anything under a 55 gallon tank. Mine's almost 2 feet long so far!

The only way to keep any fish from jumping out of your aquarium is to get a good lid that leaves no gaps for the fish to get out of... I had a 6 inch pleco get out of my tank, through a 1.5 inch square gap in the lid. He _climbed_ out, he didn't jump.

If you really want oddball fish, I'd recommend looking into some of the smaller varieties of eels, maybe a zig-zag or peacock eel. You might like a weather or dojo loach, too.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I like the spiny eels, if I kept some of these, lets say three, could I keep a butterfly?

When I say stopping them from jumping out, when I am doing a water change etc...


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

yeah, spiny eels go with african butterfly fish. make sure tog et the right kind of spiny eel, you dont want a tire track or fire eel. zig zag and peacock will fit.

and all shrimp have chitin coverings. what kind of shrimp did you have in mind? whne you say heavily armored, you dont mean like a prawn or crawdad right? they may try to kill your fish.


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about them jumping out while your changing your water... If they do, carefully pick them up and put them back in. Honestly, it happens every once in a while with lots of different fish, and there's not much you can do to prevent it.


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

pantodon bucholzi are obligatory breathers, and need to breathe air anyway, so just plop them back in if they jump out, dont let them dry out.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I guess you could put some little pillows around the tank or hang some sheets to catch them in case they jump. 
Just kidding.
If jumping is a problem, I suppose you could first catch the fish and put it in a separate closed container while working on the tank. Just being careful not to excite it should do well enough, though.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I will just see how it goes, if I have any more problems I will let you know,
The main thing I am worried about is encase it dies on impact of the floor, I have heard this has happened befor!
I meant the armoured shrimp, I don't know what they actually are but they have fans not claws,

Anthing else with the spiny eels and ABF???


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

wrestling halfbeaks???


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

forget the half beaks,
are there any freshwater goby that dig and move sand, gravel around like the marine ones???


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Not that I can think of. There aren't a lot of freshwater gobies available... You see a lot more brackish and saltwater gobies than freshwater.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

whatever it is I am sure that I can get it, it should be smallish, (22 gallon)
with spiny eels, and a butterfly fish,


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

I don't know any off the top of my head...

Have you tried to Google "Freshwater Goby"?

That's your best bet. Learn about them, and then decide if you want one or not. If you decide you want one, then come here and ask around to see if any of us are experts on them.

Good luck!


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I have researched them a bit, but I will research a bit more,
thanks...


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

so how does everyone else pronounce "bichirs".


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I heard it was "bee-cheers"
any ideas on fish???


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Bi-sheer

Soft "i", not a hard "i".


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

that solvess alot of problems,
thanks,
I was going into shop saying allsorts of pronunsiations ! ! !

Could spiny eels go with a marbled bichir?
in a 47 gallon,
48" x 15" x 18"


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

and also with a lepard buch fish?


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

OK...

A marbled bichir, lapard bush fish, and 3 spiny eels.
in a 48" x 15" x 18".
47 gallons, I think,
OK?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

I _think_ that would be ok, but the bichir will eventually outgrow the tank. I'm pretty sure the bushfish and bichir will get along fine (mine do, I've had two bichir and two leopard bushfish for two years or so), but I'm not 100% sure on the eels. I'm pretty sure they will grow more slowly than the others, so the size difference could cause a problem. I think you'll be ok, though, if you have _plenty_ of caves and hiding places for them. If someone else who knows more about the eels could chime in, that would probably be a good thing...

Good luck!


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

I suggest _Polypterus senegalus _because they are the smallest of the bichirs.

I'm not sure the spiny eels will get along with the bichir so well. if you get a smaller species like a peacock, it'd probably get killed, and a larger species like a fire eel wouldnt fit. the bichir may also bite.

many spiny eels dont like other spiny eels.

but I really dont know if they would or wouldnt get along with a bichir.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

so could I have a senegel, 2-3 bush fish,
anyone rekomend anything else or is that it???


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

You could get a few of the smaller pleco varieties, such as a bristlenose or rubberlip. They're pretty freaky lookin, and you like oddballs...


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Dam no! Snakeheads are just asking for trouble where ever you are and IME I only recomend specialist aquarists to keep these sorts of fish as I found out by keeping a red snakehead, though I did love him as much as my dog.
And as leafish are concerned you would get more pleasuse out of kkeping a dead leaf in a tank by itself as they need a species tank.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Dam no! Snakeheads are just asking for trouble where ever you are and IME I only recomend specialist aquarists to keep these sorts of fish as I found out by keeping a red snakehead, though I did love him as much as my dog.
And as leafish are concerned you would get more pleasuse out of keeping a dead leaf in a tank by itself as they need a species tank.


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Don't worry, Cichlid Man...

We've already talked him out of the Snakehead. We're now looking at Leopard Ctenapomas, a Bichir, and a few eels.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I asked a shop and they said that a marbled bichir couldn't go in a 48" x 15" x 18" tank,
but they also said that a clown loach could go in a 2' x 1'!!!

So which Bichirs can I have if any???


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Polypterus senegalus or Polypterus palmas would be ok... They are two of the smallest types.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

he said that the marbled gets the same size as tha armoured,

so one of those bichirs, senegal, marbled bichir,
three lepard bush fish,

Could anything else go in?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

There are so many thousands of fish out there, that there's no real way we can answer so open a question... Look around and see what's available to you and maybe we can help if you have a question about a specific fish.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

but is that OK, what I have already said?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Sounds good to me... I wouldn't put much more in, though, cause the bushfish will get to be 6 inches long or so (eventually), and the bichir will get a foot or so. That'll be a pretty full tank.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

how long will it take for them to reach their full size, saying that they are about 5" (bichir) and 3" (bushfish)
Also what about Shrimps in the same tank, or no?



What about armoured bichirs?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

The armored bichir will get too big, and the shrimps would get eaten. The growth rate will depend on how much you feed them, and what types of food. All of mine grew to full size in about a year or so.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

ooo, that quick, just aslong as they arent like the clown loaches! (10 years or so)
I will probably feed them mussles prawn and frozen food,
any suggestions,


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

also I have read that they both like lower lighting levels, any way that I can do this???


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

*re*

also I have read that they both like lower lighting levels, any way that I can do this???


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

anyone know?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Sure... Get a lower wattage light bulb. Or get a lot of floating plants. Or put a piece of tinted glass or plexiglass underneath your light. There are lots of ways to put less light into your tank, most of which are just common sense. Personally, I'd recommend the floating plants... They're great for your tank.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

thanks, do these fish have a good personality, like puffers


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Eh, that's a matter of opinion, so it's hard to say. My bichirs seem inquisitive, but sometimes shy, and the Bushfish aren't nearly as responsive as Oscars or anything, but they do come out to feed.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

what do you mean by responsive?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

As in, you walk up to the tank, and they come out and see if you're going to feed them or not...


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

but you do see them ofen, becease it will be in my room so I will probably be watching them when I am in bed anyway!


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Yeah, they don't really hide at all. They're always in the middle of my tank. They are not fast swimmers at all, though... Most of the time they just kind of hang out, about like a gourami. Which makes since, I suppose, since they're both Anabantoids.

-Flynn


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

OK thanks, just out of interest what size tank is yours, and the stock?

any picks, it sounds good


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Sadly, I don't have any photos... It's a very overstocked and overfiltered 125 gallon. I couldn't name everything in it off the top of my head for you, but here's a few of my favorites...

Breeding pair of severums - 1 green and 1 gold 
2 leopard ctenapomas (bushfish)
1 armored bichir
1 senegal bichir
1 synodontis decoras
1 20 inch ropefish
2 dwarf giraffe catfish
6 clown loaches

I also have a 29 gallon with a pair of angels that are trying to breed, and a few fancy plecos. One red tail sternella and one gold nugget.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

sounds good, I like the giraffe cats, could one go in my tank?
with the polypterus palmas and the ctenapomas?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

I wouldn't... They get pretty big, and they grow fast!


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I thought they only get 8",
I meant the dwarf ones,


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Oh yeah... The _dwarf_ giraffe cats should be ok... Mine are very nocturnal, though... I hardly ever see them at all. You'd certainly be pushing the limit on how much you could have in your tank, however... With _lots_ of waterchanges and filtration you'd probably still be ok, though.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

what a bout once every week?
10%
1 filter?

One thing though, what would it be like with the bichir?
If the giraffe is not possible then what about a clown syno?


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

I'd do like 30% to 40% weekly, and have a little higher than average filtration.

The Dwarf Giraffes should be fine with the bichir. A clown Syno should be fine, too.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

thing with that many water changes is that, I can't just put the water out a window, I have to use buckets, I may get a python, but what about vacuming the sand?



Also with sand does the "poo" col;lect in one are becease of curent?
If not does it not look abit messy, and how do you get all the "poo" when sucking up with the syphon?

(if that makes any sense at all)


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

I have gravel, not sand, so I can't answer you from experience... But I've heard that you just have to hold the vacuum an inch or two above the sand, and suck up the waste that's laying on top.

Yeah, for a heavily stocked 40 gallon, small water changes aren't going to cut it. You'll need buckets and some kind of dechlorinator, in my opinion. I change 50% of the water in my 125 every two weeks. That's 500 pounds of water...

-Flynn


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

is that classed as heavilly stocked???


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Eh, it's a matter of opinion, but I'd say while the fish are small, it won't be heavily stocked, but when they are full grown it will be.


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

I agree, big fish big waste!!!


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

Wow we have hit 100 replies on this!


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## j55 (Apr 25, 2005)

102 now ! ! !


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