# First salt tank... couple questions !



## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

Hey guys whats up? I've been an avid fresh water fish guy for years, but JUST recently my GF and I set up our first Salt tank.

Now my first question is, Is the "Live sand" that Came with my other tank, that has been fresh water for a year.... still "alive" ??

Our salt tank is a 20 Gallon short-long. I used a good 2'' of the "live sand" that was in our cichlid tank. We added the "instant ocean" sand untill it was just the right level on the hydrometer. (added and checked for a few days) and then let the tank set up for a week.

Now I'm curious about all the "live" bacteria and whatnot you guys talk about in salt tanks... Do I absolutely NEED Live rock, or live sand, or both??? Do having these just make it easier to run the tank?

Do all the benefitial bacteria and other stuff that live in "live" sand and rock, grow from scratch in my tank if I just wait long enough???

What is the best way to get a salt tank started??

Last week(tank had been running for 2 weeks) we went out and bought a Damsel fish, a Hermit crab, and 1lb of live rock... The damsel just died  ... but the hermit crab is still kickin ! 

PH was 8.0
small amount of nitrate
small amount of nitrite
water temp 75 degrees

ideas guys ??


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## daniel89 (Nov 28, 2009)

sw tank takes roughly 2 months to cycle cause you want coraline algea to grow and you want ur live rock to cure. Plus 1 lb of live rock is not enough... the general rule of thumb is 1 -1.5lbs per gallon of water. You probably should of done some more research before you set up the tank.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

The live sand in your freshwater is definitely not live anymore. Fresh water bacteria will not live in saltwater.
And yes you need live rock (you NEED at least 20 lbs of Live Rock in your tank) and sand but they both will become live after a while, about 2 months.
Also it takes about 6 months for a saltwater tank to be fully stabilized. 
Also don't buy anymore Damselfish, they are very aggressive and get too big for a 20 gallon tank, that is unless you buy a green chromis or clownfish, the only two acceptable damselfish.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

ok so I need to get at least 20lbs of live sand & rock.....Does it matter which one? Can I get Coral and those cool tenticle things?? What do I need for those guys?

Whats the best/fastest way to get the tank "cycled" as you call it ? (does this mean creating all the beneficial bacteria?)

I should wait at LEAST 2 months before adding fish ?


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Man you might just need to go do some research. It would take forever for us to outline every aspect of the saltwater hobby for you.
You need to figure out what you want but I will tell you right now there isn't a lot you can do with a 20 gallon tank. 
And unless you have really nice lights you can do corals or an anemone.
And no you don't actually need sand but i like it more that way and i feel its healthier. you have to have liverock though.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

any good links so I can get edjamacated???


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Read "The Conscientous Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner... THEN come to us for clarifying questions... you'll have a more complete understanding of the hobby than any of us can discribe without typing a book for you.
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/gen...s/5216-article-setting-up-saltwater-tank.html
www.wetwebmedia.com is a good place to start as well for articles on all sorts of subjects...


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

not really you should be able to find anything online, or you could buy a book
All i want you to do is get a game plan with what you want to do, if you have small questions we can answer them but we can't plan your tank for you


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

cool I'll go check the library 

thanks guys


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

O yeah, I used "instant ocean" and for the salt in the tank. And TLC for saltwater. It says it cycles the tank in 3-7 days. does this not contain all the beneficial bacteria I need??? do I still need to "cycle" the tank for the 2 month minimum???

I realize then When I go out and buy new liverock and such, that some of it is going to die off when I introduce it to my tank.... Is this the cycle you are refering to? the nitrate-amonia spikes and whatnot??


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Yeah, that's how it got the name of cycle in the first place, referring to the cyclical pattern of the rise and fall of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, but it really means the growth of the bacteria that causes this.

The live sand from your cichlid tank is no longer live, having been killed by the salt. However, it will once again be live in a few months.

If you only want a few fish, and I do mean a _very_ few in a tank that small, then you don't need all that live rock. It would help enormously, but you can get by without it for now as long as you stay away from invertebrates. Besides, without a quarantine tank, you will inevitably wind up with sick fish, and live rock would only make it much harder for you to do anything about it. Instead of rock, get a good sized skimmer. That would help you prevent a lot of problems with waste in the first place.

TLC? I don't know that one. It might cycle the tank in 7 days if it contains bacteria called _Nitrospira_ and if it's something you add to the tank each day for those 7 days.


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## betta0fish (Feb 16, 2009)

i thought TLC was tender loving care.. haha


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

yes the one u add to the tank every 7 days.

I do have a protein skimmer already. 

I took the carbon out of the filter in the tank like the bottle of TLC said to do... and I'm just gonna let it run for a while.

Today we tried our luck building some DIY base rock! It was harder than I immagined to get the stuff to stick together properly without making the mixture too wet.

We used Portland Cement, aragonite, crushed coral, some shells and a rocksalt & calcium chloride mix(ice melt we had  ) We also used boiled pasta. I'm hoping the salts and pasta will dissolve eventually and leave small voids in the rock. I heard the idea of letting the rock cure in a river, or even the tank on the back of your toilet. I'm gonna try both teqniqes, as I don't think I can fit it all in my toilet tank


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

illnastyimpreza said:


> yes the one u add to the tank every 7 days.
> I heard the idea of letting the rock cure in a river, or even the tank on the back of your toilet. I'm gonna try both teqniqes, as I don't think I can fit it all in my toilet tank


Hmm not totally sure you can cure rock in freshwater then throw it in saltwater and not kill everything you just did...


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## OCtrackiepacsg1 (Oct 18, 2009)

Understand that the rock is not alive itself but has many organisms on it. So if you have a saltwater organism and put it in a place that isn't, their gonna die and the reason why LR has a hefty price is for those organisms.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

In this case "curing" refers to the cement and getting the toxic leachates out of the cement, and a very lengthy freshwater soak is good for that, so this is a good plan.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> In this case "curing" refers to the cement and getting the toxic leachates out of the cement, and a very lengthy freshwater soak is good for that, so this is a good plan.


I understand this is the case... But why does it matter if you use aragonite sand? I never really thought of it... but would I not kill off all the beneficial organisms in the 2 months or so I'm curing the cement??


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

If you just made the rock, then there shouldn't be any organisms at all on it, so I don't quite follow your question. If you actually made this rock out of live sand, then..why??? The toxins from the cement would kill it all off anyway, so the freshwater certainly doesn't matter.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

ahh ok. Cuz that aragonite sand stuff says that it has tons of beneficial bacteria IN it.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Understand that when something is sold as "live" it means it has bacteria on it. The live sand you bought was probably a bag with sand and water in it. The water is in there to make sure the bacteria stays alive. In order for your cement to cure, all the water must dry up. Therefore your bacteria dies. Your rock is now called dry rock, or dead rock, since no bacteria lives on it. To make it live rock again, you will have to get the tank to cycle and have some source of live rock or live sand in the tank. After several months the rock will get a purple algae on it. When that happens your rock is "cured" and can be considered live.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

ok so whats the best way to cure my DIY baserock?

My tank only has a hermit crab and 1 lb of live rock in it currently...


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

First, soak it in freshwater for a few months, changing the water every few days, until it no longer makes the pH of the water rise after 3 days.

You can speed this up by using a solution of phosphoric acid, or even muriatic acid, but this is tricky and dangerous, and your name goes on some nasty lists if you buy some. Still, it can cut the time down to 3 days, plus a week of freshwater soaking to get rid of any leftover acid.

Anyway, once the rock is no longer making the pH of the water go up, it is safe to use. Add it to your tank and watch & test everything every day to make sure it's behaving itself for about 3 weeks. After that, it will be safely covered in bioslime and can no longer have much impact directly on your water chemistry. The bacteria will have started growing in it by then, and soon it will start filtering your water.


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## illnastyimpreza (Jul 31, 2009)

cool. What kind of substance would u recommend strictly for curing base rock? I know that stuff is one of the main chemicals in Rust Converter for Automotive paint finishes :lol:

Edit: I did some brief reading, and Most soda products have phosphoric acid in them ! I wonder if soakin the rock in COKE would work????


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Just go to the hardware store and get it by the gallon. Places that have a lot of stuff for working with concrete and swimming pools usually have it. You'll have to explain why you want it, though, because they'll think you're running a meth lab.


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