# Poem written by 15 year old (new pledge of allegiance)



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

Written by a 15 year old student in Arizona

New Pledge of Allegiance

Since the Pledge of Allegiance

And

The Lord's Prayer

Are not allowed in most

Public Schools anymore

Because the word 'God' is mentioned...

A kid in Arizona wrote the attached

---------------------------------------------------------------

New School Prayer:

Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds the mention of Him very odd.


If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.


Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.


For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all.

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.


We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such 'judgements' do not belong.


We can get our condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God much reach the crowd.


It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.


----------



## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I find that very offensive. Someone is taking the real social problems facing America and manipulating them to advance a religious contention. That's really cruel.


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Uh..yeah...

I think it needs a little polishing to repair the flow, but otherwise I like it. Funny stuff.


----------



## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

TheOldSalt said:


> Uh..yeah...
> 
> I think it needs a little polishing to repair the flow, but otherwise I like it. Funny stuff.


Ditto!

Kinda makes you wonder what some of the folks in Rome (or Milan) were saying during the period at the commencement of the decline of the Western Roman Empire*?

TR

*Long story but the Reader's Digest version is that the Western Empire only lasted two hundred years subsequent to the Empire division (which in my brain signaled the commencement of the Western Empire's decline).


----------



## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

As long as there are tests in school there will be prayer.


----------



## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

againsthecurent said:


> as long as there are tests in school there will be prayer.


roflmao!!!!

Tr


----------



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

COM said:


> Someone is taking the real social problems facing America


There has always been problems, history repeats itself over and over. Nothing changes, just the characters in the game.


----------



## FlatLine (Dec 30, 2008)

Knight~Ryder said:


> There has always been problems, history repeats itself over and over. Nothing changes, just the characters in the game.


Very true, as long as Humans are power-hungry, this will always continue. What can be done next to control the masses?


----------



## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

eh, it's pretty misleading, but I thought it was pretty well done. 

Anyone can still pray in school as long as it isn't disturbing the classroom, just not a school endorsed/enforced/official/mandated/...however you want to look at it, pray session. I think that's very fair, who's to say what/whose prayer to use? Lets say every morning over the intercom there is a Muslim prayer and they face all the desks to the east just because the principal is Muslim. You'd probably be offended, or at least think it's an infringement on your beliefs. *Maybe* if they did a different religion's prayer every day just for the sake of cultural understanding, and released everyone to recess early on the "atheist lack of a prayer" day, I could understand.

You might be thinking "Well Christians are a majority, so their prayer should be used", but then I'd have to educate you on the difference between a democracy and a republic .


----------



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

shev said:


> You might be thinking "Well Christians are a majority, so their prayer should be used", but then I'd have to educate you on the difference between a democracy and a republic .


Is this why evolution is being pushed onto students from an early age? Evolution is just one example, but there are many.


----------



## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

There is no reason that they couldn't have a moment of silence to replace the school prayer. This way everyone could pray what they want if they want. I remember my school doing that in the later years. There is nothing wrong with that. This gets taken too far. Now some countries no longer teach about the Holocaust because it may offend the Muslims. Muslims do not believe that it happened. So it's now ok to offend Jews by pretending it didn't happen. Eisenhower was right about taking as many pictures as possible at the time, because as he said some day someone will try to claim it never happened.

Yes our government was created as a Republic. When Benjamin Franklin was leaving the Constitutional convention a lady asked him “what have you given us”. He replied “a Republic ma'am if you can keep it”. I don’t think we are keeping our Republic well enough and are moving toward a Democracy (mob rule). Democracy is really not a form of government but a transition to an Oligarchy.
Here is a clip that does a good job explaining it well with the reference to Farnklin's quote: http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/


----------



## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Knight~Ryder said:


> Is this why evolution is being pushed onto students from an early age? Evolution is just one example, but there are many.


Heh, you really don't shy away from any controversies over religion, do you.

I'd say no. Science is most definitely not a democracy. The majority of scientists may favor the theory of evolution, which may be why you'd think it was a majority rule case, but it's only favored in the scientific community because it has the most evidence, by far.

In fact, I'd go as far in the other direction to say the only reason intelligent design has been such a forced issue, despite its lack of any science, is because of the large base of people who just want it taught it alongside evolution, not because of its credentials in science.

Edt: Speaking of God in the pledge, did you know that line wasn't added until the red scare in the 50's?



> Muslims do not believe that it happened.


I'd be careful of generalizing entire groups of people. Denying the holocaust has nothing to do with being a Muslim, it just so happens a lot of them don't believe in it, or downplay it, because of a large grudge between muslims and jews. You're probably thinking of Iran's president and extending that onto all muslims.


----------



## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm just going to put it a different way. In any group of people you will find at least one that doesn't believe exactly the same as the rest. No I don't need to be careful and no the comment was not made just because of Iran and there recent press. I have talked to a few and read about many and have gotten the same answer.


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

They know full well it happened. They're just hoping that we'll all forget that they were staunch allies of the Nazis.


----------



## Kurtfr0 (Nov 2, 2008)

I think everyones values and norms are getting all fuzzy.

and we all generalize. each and everyone of us to some degree...


----------



## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

I see no problem for a "moment of silence" which is what we did in school. If you want to pray, then do so. At my school, christianity in any way, was not the majority. If you want to put a christian prayer in school, you better have a muslim, hindu, bhudist, and any other religion that is represented at a school. If a school implemented a muslim prayer, you would be up in arms, because it offended you.

KR... don't you live in Canada? why do you care what happens over here?


----------



## guppyart (Jan 22, 2005)

sea-agg it doesn't matter where he lives, thats like saying well americans shouldn't have gone to fight in Germany,iraq,or any place not on american soil or why does NATO care about the dieing starving children in Africa.

where you live doesn't matter what happens one place affects everyone at some point or another.

specifically in this case Canada and the US things you do or we do have repercussions that affect all parties, economy shifts so does the other, trades, rules all have effects on each other.

and I have to say I would agree with a moment of silence as that allows students to respect there religious beliefs or not as the case might be.
but do agree on the poem being used wrongly in my opinion.


----------



## Kurtfr0 (Nov 2, 2008)

well.. if your not responsible enough to make sure you don't get pregnant, I don't think you should be Prom queen or King. The unwed thing I can careless about. 

I don't think he should be called names, this is a poem.. poems are meant to express how you feel, even... if someone doesn't agree.. its all about Tolerance..

who knows, maybe this kid doesn't even want a big deal out of his poem.

Nothing wrong with being religious.


----------



## mrmoby (Jan 18, 2005)

Baby_Baby said:


> "We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
> 
> And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King."
> 
> ...


Religious prickface twit!! Something I never would have expected to hear from you........and I love it! Im lol'ing my A off!


----------



## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

> whiny brat - screams religious prickface twit - bunch of tightwads -full on rant on the coocoo heads of this world - Christians are called to love and accept people, not judge them


Good job on being the better person. Get mad at someone expressing their beliefs and believe they should not call names or judge. Pot meet kettle. 

All religions defend and express their beliefs. For Christianity it’s called spreading the word of God. You don't have to believe or care that is your right. The constitution reads freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.


----------



## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

I would like to make 2 points first...

1. Welcome to 2002 that poem has been around a very long time...
2. I highly doubt a child wrote that... Who ever wanted it to spead faster uses youth as a catalist for being noticed...

Also...

I'm atiest... Not for any particular reason beside a higher being up in space that is all knowing all powerful just doesnt make sense to me... And i dont condone those of faith... i think they are mislead and insane, but they think the same of me... so we are even at best...

A word to christians... Crap like that... It just drives people away... Religion is dying fast in this country... I can think of about 6 young people around me that go to church (out of like 100)... If you really want to do some good... Stop judging and stop being hipocrits... Live your life like you should and maybe Jesus wont turn out like Santa... Just another story to make kids behave until they are about 10 years old... Continue down the road or pushing things on people and teaching fire and brimstone... and your screwed...

Just to clarify my point a bit as to y i turned my back on "God's people"... When Katrina rolled though my parents church took up an offering... My parents put in $100... I put in $300 (remember I'm and evil athiest... I'm the scum of the earth...)... My mom is the tresurer of the chuch and that offering took in $550... The other 200 people in that building averaged like $.75...

Oh but i bet they were praying real hard for those people... Because well prayer is free... and really easy to do... So they were willing to sacrifice 30 seconds out of thier day...

Its all complete BS and I think I made a good choice by choising to live my life in a way that will hopefully help mankind without the promise of reward (or eternal damnation if i do the things I've seen most Xtians do)...

-me


----------



## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Againsthecurent said:


> Good job on being the better person. Get mad at someone expressing their beliefs and believe they should not call names or judge. Pot meet kettle.
> 
> All religions defend and express their beliefs. For Christianity it’s called spreading the word of God. You don't have to believe or care that is your right. The constitution reads freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.


Then i suppose your ok with satanics sacrificing a goat in the town square... I mean thats pretty much the same as a manger scene infront of a court house...

There is also some seperation of church and state mixed in there somewhere... State dollars paid for school... So if they want to teach science instead of religion... i think they might have that right...

-me


----------



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

:lol: Don't know if this is really a laughing matter, but as I'm growing I tend to see the way people behave kind of hilarious.

Don't let one person who shoves "religion" down your throat ruin your whole perspective of many people who follow God. Getting angry and retaliating back with harsh words is kind of doing the same thing as the ones doing it to you.

It's funny I have a facebook account and I put a lot of sayings and inspirational quotes on my profile and my dad (who is gay) comes on and says don't shove it down my throat! I don't even talk to him, but he reads my profile. Must be convicting? I don't know.

When I have talked to him (which is rare) he talks and talks about his lifestyle and shows me his lifestyle and says I should come with him to chill out at a Gay bar and blah blah blah. I never really understood why he can show me his lifestyle and tell me I can't live out my lifestyle...o wait I do understand, but I let it be.

I don't see why what Jesus said has to be labeled religion? What people have changed it into, is a different story. It's all about the heart, and yes let's be honest. We do need more people standing for truth in a world that always seems to be lost and looking for answers. 

Nothing here angers me and no words get me all worked up. I love being able to talk about all this rationaly. 

I think it's a great poem, it's always harder to stand for truth then to mix in with the crowd. I don't need to act holier then thou, but if that's how it comes across then so be it. I never want to try and change someone, it's not up to me to change anyone, and when it really comes down to it. I can't.


----------



## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

predator said:


> Then i suppose your ok with satanics sacrificing a goat in the town square... I mean thats pretty much the same as a manger scene infront of a court house...
> 
> There is also some seperation of church and state mixed in there somewhere... State dollars paid for school... So if they want to teach science instead of religion... i think they might have that right...
> 
> -me


I don't really care what you believe. It's your decision not mine and won't judge anyone. It is my belief that it isn't my job to do so. As to your argument of public sacrifices, it can't be done because of public health fo one reason. Do you have any idea what hoops slaughter houses have to jump through in respect to public health? It's funny that you would compare a religious scene with mutilation. I don't know why you would abandon your belief in God because of others actions or inaction. I have said it before, I have FAITH in God, but no faith in the church.


----------



## predator (Jan 28, 2005)

Againsthecurent said:


> I don't really care what you believe. It's your decision not mine and won't judge anyone. It is my belief that it isn't my job to do so. As to your argument of public sacrifices, it can't be done because of public health fo one reason. Do you have any idea what hoops slaughter houses have to jump through in respect to public health? It's funny that you would compare a religious scene with mutilation. I don't know why you would abandon your belief in God because of others actions or inaction. I have said it before, I have FAITH in God, but no faith in the church.


Slaughter houses are intended for food... thats the major public concern there...

And you are right that is a bit xtreme, but what about the people that complain that muslim mosk (are they mosk) play the call to prayer 5 times a day... I know towns that ring church bells ever hour on the hour... Whats the problem there???

And i lost faith because it dosent make sence... im glad im no longer associated with that group because they (as a whole not say every single one of them is) look like idiots...

-me


----------



## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Folks:

I will try this once again but with a different "take" and hopefully illicit some responses (btw: abject laughter is an appropriate response).

During the period of the Roman Republic and to some extent the period of the Roman Empire 20 years of military service was required of male patricians (I believe coming from cobwebs).

The above is just one example of the Roman's intense social structure which allowed, as an example, the construction of massive public works projects such as the the aqueducts which commenced during the period of the Roman Republic.

IMHO the decline of the Roman civilization began with the creation of the Roman Empire as this intense social structure commenced becoming corrupted.

As I indicated in my previous post the Western Empire only lasted two hundred years subsequent to the Empire division.

Once again, although in more straightforward words,
*Kinda makes you wonder what some of the folks in Rome (or Milan) were saying during the period at the commencement of the decline of the Western Roman Empire or even during the period when the Empire was being created with respect to the degradation of their social structure?*

TR

BTW and as yall can tell IMHO Those Who Do Not Learn From History Are Doomed to Repeat It.


----------



## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

jones57742 said:


> Once again, although in more straightforward words,
> *Kinda makes you wonder what some of the folks in Rome (or Milan) were saying during the period at the commencement of the decline of the Western Roman Empire or even during the period when the Empire was being created with respect to the degradation of their social structure?*
> 
> TR
> ...


I'm afraid some of the things you say goes over our heads. I'd love to respond, but I get a bit lost in your typing, it's very old fashioned, maybe even poetic. If I were to take a stab in the dark, and draw a parallel from this thread to Rome's collapse, I'd have to go with Julian and Christianity becoming an official or "state sponsored religion". During that period, they were probably saying something in Latin that I wouldn't understand.


----------



## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Knight~Ryder said:


> :lol: Don't know if this is really a laughing matter, but as I'm growing I tend to see the way people behave kind of hilarious.
> 
> Don't let one person who shoves "religion" down your throat ruin your whole perspective of many people who follow God. Getting angry and retaliating back with harsh words is kind of doing the same thing as the ones doing it to you.
> 
> ...



Maybe I can shed some light on why this poem tends to turn people off.

First off, everyone likes to think they're being persecuted against. This poem makes it look like they're being suppressed, or their beliefs are, but in reality, they're just being stopped from imposing their beliefs onto others. Like I said in my first post, no one is stopping you from praying in school. Only "official" prayers by the school, which would be imposing those beliefs onto everyone. Like I said before, you'd be offended if they used a Muslim prayer.



> Now I sit me down in school
> Where praying is against the rule
> For this great nation under God
> Finds the mention of Him very odd.


It starts off playing the persecuted card. Then, it claims the nation as a "nation under God." Kind of hypocritical.



> If Scripture now the class recites,
> It violates the Bill of Rights.
> And anytime my head I bow
> Becomes a Federal matter now.
> ...


Now this, is where it gets interesting. This clearly implies something is wrong with dyed hair, specifically colorful dyed hair. Why is that? The obvious answer is that dyed hair is associated with other "crazier" things by the sheltered writer of this poem. This is the *EPITOME* of being judgmental; a generalization is made about people with dyed hair which is then used to judge people with dyed hair. I can't think of anything more arbitrary than the color of someone's hair to be used against them, the writer of this poem must have been extremely conservative and sheltered(I obviously don't mean conservative politically).



> For praying in a public hall
> Might offend someone with no faith at all.
> In silence alone we must meditate,
> God's name is prohibited by the state.


Again, playing the persecuted card.



> We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
> And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
> They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
> To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
> ...


The writer comes right out and says her "judgments" are best. And again, she's judging people by the way they look, ie dress, piercings, hair color, and way they talk, which, although I find judging people to be generally wrong, judging them on arbitrary facts like this is pretty horrible. She wouldn't allow a pregnant teen become the senior queen because apparently she would be considered morally inferior, which I didn't know were the grounds for judging a prom queen. 



> We can get our condoms and birth controls,
> Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
> But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
> No word of God much reach the crowd.


Witchcraft, vampires and totem poles are as equally accessible as the bible. I'm sure both Harry Potter and the Bible are in their library, but neither should be forced onto the students. Condoms and birth control I guess implies premarital sex, a sin for some religions. That rule is pretty meaningless to someone not of one of those religions. There is nothing wrong with people basing their morals around their own beliefs, but when those people try to impose their morals onto everyone else things tend to go down hill. Every religion would want to use their own code of conduct to base rules on, which is why we have a secular government. Secular doesn't mean "anti religion". If the line "under god" was taken out from the pledge, it wouldn't be replaced by "a nation with no god". That wouldn't be secular, think of "secular" as "neutral". 



Anyway, this poem comes across as "holier than thou", imposing their "moral code", as arbitrary as it is IMO, onto everyone. It's very ironic that this poem was soo unchristian. 



So, here's a story of my own. My high school used to be a catholic school, but now is a public school. My graduation was not held at the school I went to. At the graduation, there was a preacher that literally spent half of the entire graduation speaking about religious values. I wasn't offended by the fact he was preaching his religion, I was offended by how inconsiderate it was to do this for a public school's graduation. I would have ditched it if I knew beforehand.


----------



## k-dawg- (Feb 2, 2006)

Knight-Ryder why do you post stuff like this? It's not helping religion or Christianity. I'm a Christian, catholic actually. Personally I'm a firm believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words." Rather than taking the time to post this kind of stuff over and over again, maybe think about donating your time to actually help someone in your community. I tend to try to stray away from any religious debates, but I thought this time I'd at least put my two cents in. I don't mean this out of malice at all. Remember, "They will know we are Christians by our love."


----------



## Knight~Ryder (Dec 2, 2007)

I'm not going to go into a long detailed discussion of why. I just felt like posting it. Besides that, read every single post I made in the Proof of God thread, I am sure I have discussed my heart on this issue many times. All this talk is wonderful, but never could it take place of my real intentions in my heart.


----------

