# 3 species compatibility and possibility?



## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

I've read the last few pages of posts, and couldn't find anything that has to do with my situation. Sorry if this seems long, but I want to give as much detail as possible so that there's enough information to base advice on.

I have decided I want to "re do" my tank. As I have relatively hard water (haven't tested it for specific numbers, but faucets get quite caked with mineral deposits if not cleaned all the time), I figured Cichlids would be good. I did used to have a couple Electric Yellows, but gave them to somebody who liked them too. Now I want to have them again, but I've also found others I like.
Tank: 60 gallons (currently has 1 gold gourami, 1 zebra danio, 1 glofish, 1 Boesemani Rainbow and 1 little orange pleco that has stayed little....everything died off (old age? never had any diseases), so that's why I want to start with something new)
Filtration: 75gph Marineland bio wheel (and has carbon 'sponge' type inserts too)
Maintenance: 25% water change once a week - vacuum half of gravel once a week, alternating sides (so each side gets done 2wice a month)
Decor: Big castle. There are no individual "caves", but it's more just one huge space of a tunnel with windows cut out in the outter part of the castle (see picture below)
Substrate: typical gravel found in pet stores...color is a mix of white, light blue and a bit of black (might have to add some more black, it's probably a little too bright)
Decor plans: I want to add some 'houses'. I was thinking I could use PVC pipe (black) and stack them perpendicular...kinda like a log cabin, but with spaces in-between each pipe to make a 3D grid. This way, they have places to go IN the pipe, and also AROUND the pipes. Keeping the castle, I was going to get 2 or 3 small grids to put around it, so everybody has their own territory. I guess I could get real rocks, but I think it might get too heavy for the glass to support.
Fish wanted: Cichlids. 9 pseudotropheus demasoni, 4 Electric Yellow, 3 Acei -- obviously, I want a blue and yellow mix of fishies

Now, the main problem I have, is with the fish themselves. I've been doing research, and there's so many contradictions!

Pseudotropheus demasoni/(common name?) - All information I can find is to keep them in a group of a dozen or more. With my tank size, and wanting other fish, I'm hoping that if I only get 9 or 10, that would be okay.

Labidochromis caeruleus/Electric Yellow - Some sites say you should have at least half a dozen, other sites say kept in pairs. So I was thinking 4 would be okay

Pseudotropheus sp./Acei - groups of 3 to 10 and since I'll already have quite a few between the other two, I figured I would be okay with just 3

Besides simply the numbers, the other problem I have is with male/female ratio. Everything I've read says that all three species should have 2-3 females per 1 male (except damas, 1 male per group of dozen fish)...but THEN they say it's hard to tell the genders apart - so how am I supposed to know if I have the right ratio?

Also, with the decor/territory issue... I've read that you should have plenty of stuff for each fish to claim their own little space, but then I've read some things that decor should be sparse so that fish can't fight over territory. So should I just keep the castle, or get the pipe-grids too?

Fortunately, I have plenty of time to figure all this out...I can't afford this project until at least the end of the year (16 fish at $15 each is $240, plus the PVC pipe = $300 budget)
Also, I'm hoping my filtration and water changes will be able to support 16 6" fish, because I certainly can't afford a bigger tank (at least not for a couple more years)

So, in summary

#1 - can I keep 16 fish in a 60 gallon tank (considering my filtration/maintenance)?

#2 - are the numbers of fish going to be okay? 9 damas, 4 electric yellow, 3 acei (unsexed/random genders)

#3 - sparse hiding places, or many? (don't wanna spend $200+ on fish, only to have them kill each other off within a couple months)










P.S.
I have no interest in breeding. If they do, that's okay...but my main goal is to just have a show tank and colorful fishies to entertain me! 
Also, that one plant is plastic... I tried real plants, and they all died! Got a brown thumb, I guess.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Many, many, hiding places. Buy all different sizes of pipe. It cost between $1 and $10 per length (often 10 or 12 feet). Get a PVC pipe cutting tool for around $10. Trust me, its worth it. Try to find a local fish or cichlid club. If you meet a local breeder, you should be able to get fry for around $6 a fish and let them grow up. Check out P. saulosi instead of labs and demasoni. You get 2 colors in one fish.


----------



## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

Okay, I looked up saulosi... that seems to be a pretty good option. I'm just sort of leery of the "can become golden colored" thing that was mentioned in a couple articles. I want YELLOW fish. I bought a gold gourami at Petco that -was- yellow in their tank... brought it home, and it turned orange. If I wanted an orange fish, I would'a bought one that was orange in the first place! 
I know Electric Yellows will be yellow in my tank, because I had some (though one of them had some dusky vertical stripes, but I don't mind that too much)


----------



## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

your tank will hold plenty of real rocks.make piles of it.about half way up the tank..just create all kinds of nooks and crannies for them to use.
i have kept african cichlids off and on for 35 years..they do best when crowded..too much activity for them to pick on 1 particular fish.i usually kept 20-30 fish in a 40 gallon long..


----------



## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

20-30 in a 40 gallon? And they all did okay, huh? Well, I guess that makes me feel better. Some guy on another forum got on my case that I don't have enough filtration and gonna kill everything off. I double checked, and my filter isn't 75gph, it's for "up to 75 gallon tanks", and is 350 gph... still, he told me I needed at least 600gph to do any good at all.

Still trying to arrange my numbers... I was thinking maybe get 6 female Electric Yellows, let them settle in for a month or two, then get 3 or 5 Acei and let them settle in, then get 3 male Saulosi last, so the others won't have to fight (as much?) for territory.
I'm also making plans for caves, and figure if I have about 2 hiding places for each fish (so 25 or so), that will help too.


Boy, I think I'm havin' it tough now.... and I also want to do a nano FOWLR! ...eventually - aka "few years from now".


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you go with labs, go with demasoni, rather than Saulosi. Don't get any 2 fish that have the same main color.

Lots of hiding places, lots of fish, lots of filtration. Plan on adding 1 more filter of the same size. If you don't, and you "overstock" the tank as recommended to control aggression, you will be cleaning it all the time. 

Acei are the mildest, the labs next, the other psuedos meanest. Start with the acei, give them some driftwood (only mbuna that likes wood). You may find that 5 acei are enough fish for you (they will make more). And they are the least likely to need high number not to kill each others.


----------

