# frogs/fish



## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

is there a way to do a setup with both frogs and fish in an aquarium? or maybe lizards and fish? i think thatd be REALLY cool... i saw a pic on the back of some magazine at walmart and it had a kit where you could have like a waterfall type filter system and frogs and fish could be in there together... any ideas? thanks!


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

do you mean aquatic frogs? if so, then yes you can do frogs and fish, but i wouldnt do the lizards and fish, i dont think that would be a good mix


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

How big is your tank?


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

no not aquatic frogs... LOL i have a few of those... here... lemme try to find an example, or maybe the magazine

but like.... ugh... h.o

oh and i dont have an aquarium yet... i guess id figure that out if i figured out how to create the setup heh


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

lmao... this is the pic i created ::im a horrible artist::


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

do you know what kind of fish it was? you first should check out local stores, see what frogs theyve got to offer, and then decide which you want, then you will know how to house them properly. some frogs can be placed with fish, others cannot. we for instance have a fire belly toad, and they sometimes get guppy friends...but of course theyre food.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

You have to have a big enough tank and big enough fish not to get eaten by the frogs to be successful. Also the shape of the tank is also vital. I mean it's no good housing them in a 200g tank.................that is the shape of a standing up cylinder and has not much surface area. The best setup is a tank with moderate length and great width, but not very tall, say 3ft by 2ft by 1ft would be ideal. Then you need a sloping bank of gravel or sand (not too fine otherwise the frogs slime coat will become damaged) sloping towards one side, say six or.... seven inches. Then give the frogs plenty of hiding places in the form of caves and burrows to make them feel more secure. Make sure you by carnivorious fish so if any of the frogs food falls into the water by mistake then the fish will happily munch it up to aviod pollution of the system. Because this setup is a bit of a challenge, you can allways use the similar setup above and use either fidler crabs or rainbow crabs instead of frogs, I've seen them keep white cloud mountain minnows with rainbow crabs at the lfs, and this shallow water environement is also idea for breeding the WCMM.
I don't think keeping lizards would be a good choice, but some sort of snakes would thrive in this environement for example grass snakes or common water snakes. On a large scale, even pythons and boas can be akin to this environement.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2005)

just out of curiousity, why wouldnt lizards thrive like this?


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Though some lizards can swim well and live in humid conditions. They arn't adapted like frogs are and some lizards don't get on well with large fish.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2005)

oooh okay
thanks


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## Pareeeee (Jan 22, 2005)

Mermaid, I believe you are referring to a palaudarium, as pictured here. (I have always wanted to set one up )








I would recommend that you don't get any poisonous frogs (ie, Poison Dart Frogs, Firebelly toads) although they _may_ not hurt your fish when they decide to go for a swim, there's always that chance that the poison can hurt a particular fish.
The tank would have to be medium to large size for you to be able to make a palaudarium, unless you are getting very small frogs and fish. Because, in order to make land _and_ water in the same tank, it takes up more space.
Also, be sure that the 'land' in the tank is not made from mud/soil, because that _could_ and probably would contaminate the water section. Plants can always be planted in small pots and hidden in substrate - that is if you want plants.

Be prepared that this may not be as easy as it seems.
Best of luck!


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

Characin Gal's offered set up looks great and attractive. Though I really think it's quite space consuming. To get a big space for fish... and requires a good filter and maintaince.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

maxpayne_lhp said:


> Characin Gal's offered set up looks great and attractive. Though I really think it's quite space consuming. To get a big space for fish... and requires a good filter and maintaince.


In fact, because the water level is low and not many fish will be kept, filteration dosn't need to be that great.


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## euRasian32 (May 19, 2005)

CG: great pic/great find. That is a really nice setup.

On a smaller scale: a terrarium would be an alternative, although keeping fish alive would be the hard part, especially in a newly established tank. I've seen kits made by "tetra?", that has everything you need for a 20Long. It has the divider and a water slide so when the submersible pump takes in water it channels up to the slide and then down into the pool. The one I saw set up, had the pool with very little pea gravel, and the "land side" had pea gravel stacked up with a layer of moss, and some plants. It had lil frogs and newts (which are lizard like) but no fishes.

I don't know if the kit is still available, it has been a while since I saw it. I successfully kept a turtle and tree frogs in a 35 hex with a 3 tier terrarium. The highest tier had soil for some non toxic houseplants, the middle tier was stacked with peagravel, and the bottom tier was the pool. I had a 25gph submersible filter with a hose that sent the water trickling over the stacked pea gravel in the second tier, which flowed over into the pool. I used pieces of acrylic for the tiers along with tank safe acrylic glue.

The idea was shot from the hip, becaus the hex had a small leak so I converted it. The leak was where I put the third highest tier with the soil and plants, and never had a problem. I still have the tank, my brother is using it right now for his daughters iggy. I could take some pics the next time I'm there, the weekend of July 30-31.


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## awesome kid (Jun 10, 2005)

euRasian32 can you get some pics for me, because i also have a 35 hex, im like, what can i do with this...now i have a possibility


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

I have a Newt/feeder guppy setup. It is a mess, the food never gets eaten in time because of the lazy newts and because it is a 10G there is basically no room for fish with it only half full. I thought it would be fun too until I realized how boring my newts were and that all I could fit was some feeder guppys.


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

lexus, have you tried a dish? my newt always comes out when its feeding time, and it doesnt eat just guppies. it'll eat blackworms, shrimp pellets and crickets too.


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

thanks everyone... yeah i didnt really want to do it with lizards, ive just loved frogs my whole life

thanks for the pic charcin gal... thats exactly what i would like!
i just still have no idea how to go about doing it... i could use my 55g, its about to be empty because i have three young oscars in it that will be upgraded to a 100g-150g asap... they grow to fast  but im getting a job in about a month, so no worries

euRasian32... i dont really understand what you mean, like i get the layers thing. i just dont get how to make sure everything stays in place and doesnt tumble into the water, sorry im a little on the blonde side LOL oh and whats an iggy???

thanks everyone tho!!! :-D


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

fishfreaks said:


> lexus, have you tried a dish? my newt always comes out when its feeding time, and it doesnt eat just guppies. it'll eat blackworms, shrimp pellets and crickets too.


We feed them frozen brine shrimp. They dont eat the guppies. All they do is sit in the stupid peace lily plant, not even on the rock. Plus they dont swim ever!


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

oh, ummm what types of snakes can go in to this kinda aquarium setup (instead of frogs of course) are there any kinds of snakes that stay small that could be in this setup? thanks... oh and does anyone know any websites i could go to to get more ideas? thanks again


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

Characin Gal said:


> Mermaid, I believe you are referring to a palaudarium, as pictured here. (I have always wanted to set one up )
> 
> 
> 
> ...




when i looked up palaudarium all i found was a bunch of web sites that were in another language... could that maybe be a non-english word? :lol:


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

here are a few links for you http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_terrarium.php, http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/articles.html,


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

fishfreaks said:


> here are a few links for you http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_terrarium.php, http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/articles.html,


thanks bunches!


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

> In fact, because the water level is low and not many fish will be kept, filteration dosn't need to be that great.


Well, ok, thanks... I though the ammonia built up by the reptiles can be a problem. But ok..


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

this is agitating, i cant find a picture that explains itself, and everything i read doesnt make any since to me... how would i keep the water and land seperate? or keep the land from falling into the water? how would i get a waterfall type thing going? so many questions, hehe. i just really would like to do this, i mean itll take me about 4 1/2 months to get money saved up to transfer my oscars (unless i get a loan from my dad or my boyfriend... maybe both ;-) ) so i have some time to plan. i guess ill just keep searching. does anyone know the actual name of this type of setup in english? since i dont htink the other one is english?


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

to keep the water and land seperate you could make a hill out of the substrate, thats what we did. and we have a piece of driftwood going from one side to the next, if they wish to climb. But they usually dont.


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

fishfreaks said:


> to keep the water and land seperate you could make a hill out of the substrate, thats what we did. and we have a piece of driftwood going from one side to the next, if they wish to climb. But they usually dont.


a hill.... like at a slant? (im a visual learner)


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

yup, just like a slant


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

ok... now any tips on how to get a waterfall-type think going... like where the water flows down some rocks back into the water

on one of the websites it has something about a submersible pump... but im not sure what it mean by that?

thanks everyone! im starting to get a picture of what i want to do


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

maxpayne_lhp said:


> Well, ok, thanks... I though the ammonia built up by the reptiles can be a problem. But ok..


I can see where you're coming from but reptiles don't exhale ammonia from their gills like fish do. LOL.


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## Pareeeee (Jan 22, 2005)

aha but reptile poo is full of ammonia


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

I didn't mean that they exhale ammonia thru their gills


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## Thunderkiss (Mar 19, 2005)

55 is too small, do a 90. otherwise you won't get any land/aquascaping. 180 would be even better.


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

Thunderkiss said:


> 55 is too small, do a 90. otherwise you won't get any land/aquascaping. 180 would be even better.


thats pretty big... are you sure my 55 wont work??? i mean i only want a few frogs and fish... not like a bunch! and if i could find an animal that you live both on land and in the water then i wouldnt worry about getting fish... but i dont think i wanna buy a bigger aquarium for this


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

if your comfortable with the 55, go with the 55  as long as you decide on an animal that can fit into it you'll be fine.


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

thank you! ummm... i just dunno what kinda animal would be cool... do frogs swim? or do they just stay on land... what kinda pet snake would swim? and would it stay small? i wouldnt mind a little snake that would swim


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

i dont know about snakes, but i do know that some frogs swim. try this website http://repticzone.com/forums/index.html


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Characin Gal said:


> aha but reptile poo is full of ammonia


Aha, but so is fishes poo!


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

Correct spelling is paludarium

I always wanted one but have never got up the energy to set one up ;-)

You can use clear acrylic (or glass) placed upright in the tank to separate the land from water areas. You can use aquarium grade silicone sealant to fasten it to the bottom and tank sides.

The pump is an underwater pump - sometimes used in fountains. You put it at the bottom of the tank and attach clear plastic tubing that fits the outflow up to the top of the land area to make the waterfall. There are different sizes of pumps usually rated gallons per hour (GPH) or for certain heights of push, so get one that will be strong enough to do the job.

Here's a couple items from google ( I didn't read them so can't recommend)


http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html
http://members.tripod.com/~Tropic_Cove/aquariums/paludarium.html
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/paludriums/l/blpaludarium.htm


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## mermaid (Jul 22, 2005)

thanks so much for the links... looks like ive got some reading to do  :wink:


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