# I am confused. Why are my mollies and guppies sucking air from the surface?



## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

I just did a 20% water change. Now they're all up at the surface sucking air.

My numbers are perfect. Ammonia =0, nitrites=0, nitrates=10ppm. Of course you guys know, that i use LIVE plants and of course I have a filter that breaks the surface tension, so whats the deal? I'm worried.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

That happened to me after a water change. The new water from the pipes may not have enough oxygen. Drop the water level for a day or two and let the waterfall oxygenated the tank. But if you have CO2, check everything, excess would have the same effect.


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

its all good now. They're doing just fine. It just really scared me! lol, thanks!


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

emc7 said:


> may not have enough oxygen.


Fc: Yep - they are experiencing oxygen deprivation.

Moderate agitation of the water's surface will produce greater oxygenation of the tank water than just "breaking the surface tension".

In addition to em's suggestion an air pump and air stone will also produce this moderate aeration.

TR

BTW: did you check the water temperature subsequent to the WC?

Edit: you posted while I was preparing this post.


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

The water temperature was about the same. Not warm and not cold. 

I thought they would have a lot of oxygen since i was pouring water into the tank. I'm pretty sure the water was greatly agitated from that! It was literally like 2 minutes after the WC that they were sucking air from the surface. 

There is less agitation now but they are fine.


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Was the water dechlorinated? Or added to the tank then dechlorinated? Chlorine/chloramine will block the oxygen absorbing cells in gills. That'd be my guess.


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

No, I decholorinated before I added it....*sigh*.


I don't even know why I have dechlorinater because the water from my tap has Zero! lol. 

I guess they're just out of oxygen for some reason.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Fishychic said:


> No, I decholorinated before I added it....*sigh*.


Fc:

Np in adding dechlorinate prior to WC as this is what most folks do but if you have significant ammonia (principally) or nitrites (secondarily) then this may be causal as IMHO the reduction of the these molecules by the typical dechlorinate consumes oxygen in the tank water.




Fishychic said:


> I don't even know why I have dechlorinater because the water from my tap has Zero! lol.


I am obviously not familiar with drinking water standards in Germany but I seriously doubt that your tap water has no chlorine or chloramine.

In the US injection at the potable water production plant is required such that the tap water has a minimum of 1ppm of these molecules for disinfection purposes.

TR


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

jones57742 said:


> Fc:
> 
> I am obviously not familiar with drinking water standards in Germany but I seriously doubt that your tap water has no chlorine or chloramine.
> 
> ...


Yes, You are obviously not familiar with drinking water standards in Germany. I've tested the water from my tap. There is none. Zilch, zero. 

Google it. Do some research first.


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## darkstar (Nov 25, 2008)

So you've tested your water for chlorine then? Where did you aquire a chlorine test?

Having done some basic research on Germanys water, it would appear that they do use Chlorine but don't use Chloramines.



> Google it. Do some research first.


Considering this person responded in their own free time to help you with a problem, that frankly, is your problem and no-one elses...one would think you should be slightly more grateful than you appear to be.


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

Darkstar, I was more annoyed with his previous answer where he tried correcting me by telling me that "breaking surface tension" is not enough but moderate agitation is. Frankly I don't see a difference. 

Secondly, It bothered me to see him say "I seriously doubt that your tap water has no chlorine or chloramine." I tested my water, this test I received from a privately owned pet store here in Germany, shows 0ppm. It's like calling me a liar. 

Darkstar, Where is your source? Can I see it? 

I appreciate any help anyone has to offer but sometimes people need to watch how they put things. I take Jones' reply as very condescending.


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## darkstar (Nov 25, 2008)

> Darkstar, Where is your source? Can I see it?


Of course. Here you go:

http://www.lenntech.com/water-disinfection/eu-water-disinfection-regulation.htm


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

Darkstar, thanks for the link. 

For one, I don't know how valid that is since that data is 11 years old. 


Secondly, if there is chlorine in the water, why does the test show 0ppm?

Further more, a family friend has an aquarium but doesn't use water conditioner and his fish are fine...

Btw, Germany doesn't add flouride to their water either.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

If your test shows zero chlorine, then maybe it has no chlorine in it.
Free chlorine will dissipate over time, after all, which is why we often use chloramine for it's added stability.
In fact, it just might be a huge clue to the exact nature of your problem with the gasping. If the water is finally arriving at your house only after it's lost it's chlorine, then there's no telling just what has happened to that water along the way. Water in pipes very very often winds up with a gas imbalance from the pressure anyway, resulting in effects like you observed, but maybe things are especially weird in this case. ( or it's just a really long, slow trip which both gives your water time enough to lose it's chlorine and develop gas imbalance. )
In any case, to prevent this in the future, just let your new tapwater sit around in a big bucket overnight before use. That should let it's dissolved gases ratios return to normal again, making it much safer for your fish.

As for jones, well, he sometimes sounds a bit strange to us here in america as well, so I can see how a german may have extra trouble. LOL! ( just kidding, jones! ) He's not being condescending; he's just very precise, and in plain text form that can "sound" a bit different from what it really is, since it's impossible to gauge feeling and inflection from words unheard. On the other hand, he's smarter by far than most of us here, and if you pay attention you'll learn a lot of very useful stuff, such as in this case where he mentions how dechlorinator can itself use up quite a bit of free oxygen. That's normally not a problem, BUT, if your water is coming from your faucet in the condition I think it is, then suddenly it's not as trivial a matter as it would be normally. Try skipping the dechlorinator and just letting a bucketful of water sit out overnight instead. I think you'll probably see a big difference. This is a fairly common problem to see after a water change, and that solution almost always helps enormously.


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## Fishychic (Dec 7, 2008)

TOS, thank you very much. I appreciate it greatly!  

It makes a lot more sense now.


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## Pepcfreak (Jan 11, 2009)

Do you know if your on city water or a well?

If your on a well then its most likel not gonna have chlorine. Secondly though that graph is 11 years old there is still a good chance that there isnt chlorine used where she is. Third a recent show on discovery channel showed that almost all of germany is using more "green" technology to no only power their energy (germany is the leading wind generator country in the world yet is rated one of the least windiest countries) so that mean there is even a higher chance that she has no chlorine since clorine is bad for the enviroment in the ppm they add it in. Hence why it will kill your fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There are non-chlorine water treatments. I think one uses electricity to create peroxide. In the US, regulation decourage innovation, so we tend to have similar treatment throughout the country. All well-water used to be chlorine-free. But after an outbreak of listeria or something in the last municipal water source that wasn't treating the water, only private wells aren't dosed anymore.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

TheOldSalt said:


> As for jones, well, he sometimes sounds a bit strange to us here in america as well, so I can see how a german may have extra trouble. LOL! ( just kidding, jones! )


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks TOS and your comments are unfortunate but true!

Fc: I could not say this before TOS' post and I just try to help folks on the Forum but


[1] if the vessel in which you took the water sample to the LFS had air space available and if the disinfectant in your tap water is chlorine them the LFS would show no delectable chlorine;

[2] if the disinfectant in your tap water is either chlorine or a chloramine then the concentration may be less that the detectable limits of your LFS' equipment even at 1ppm; but

[3] with respect to 2 above your fish will detect the presence of the chlorine or chloramine and the concentration will probably be toxic.

Also it has been 36 years since I could easily read and understand German and 15 years since I could read and understand most of it but please review these *Drinking Water Quality Standards* and google for the chlorine residual which I believe is contained therein.

TR


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