# Ammonia is actually worse- rats.



## PTCrow (Apr 25, 2005)

It was at 4.0 ppm this morning. Can you buy the ammonia consuming bacteria for a kick start? Is that even possible? How the hell can it be getting worse? I could see if I wasn't doing a thing about it, but I'm actually trying here.


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## cameraman_2 (Mar 28, 2005)

In my tank it just got up to 4.0 and stayed there no matter what I did. I think it should start to go down once the other bacteria starts to break it down. I just happened to have a filter on another tank that had a turtle in it instead of fish so I just put that filter on the tank, which had bio wheels and the next day the ammonia and nitrate were at zero.
They do sell the bacteria in bottles but I've heard that it is useless and is just a gimich.


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## PTCrow (Apr 25, 2005)

So I guess I just have to be patient and wait the cycle out. Okay, I'll stop obsessing and keep up the other routines. Thanks for talking me off the proverbial ledge. :fun:


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

PT, I'm sorry to hear you are still having trouble. Actually there is a product that might help. Bio-Spira. There are several products that claim to help cycle a tank. Bio-Spira is the only one I would trust. It is expensive. Are you changing water? Like 50% /day? Are your fish still alive? Don't get fustrated, it is not uncommon for a tank to take 4-5 weeks to cycle completely.


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## PTCrow (Apr 25, 2005)

I'll check the store after work today for that product. Thanks.
I wasn't doing 50% per day, more like 10%. I was afraid that if I changed too much, I'd disrupt the bacteria cycle even more. As if that would be possible. THree of the fish died, but it's hard to tell if the two big cichlids are to blame or the ammonia. The two remaining (and the pleco) all appear okay. They don't have red around their gills and they're not blooping at the top of the water as if they can't breathe. They are less active than normal, but could that be because I turned down the heat? THere's so much to consider. WHo knew? I sorta thought that if you kept up with basic maintenance the tank would hum along. Instead I'm practically consumed with thinking about these fish. The tank is in my office--not so good for work productivity.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Changing lots of water won't slow down your cycle. It may affect the AMOUNT of bateria. I guess you must choose between the fishes health and the cycle. Why did you turn down the heat? The cycle will go faster at a higher temp.


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## PTCrow (Apr 25, 2005)

A couple of web sites about ammonia problems said that lowering the heat would help. Crap. Should I turn it back up? You wouldn't happen to know of any sites that are reliable? There's a lot of conflicting information out there. I'm ready to throw in the towel. (Not really.)


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

PT, check your PM.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

PT, your low PH and your cycling problem may actually be related. I had hoped to avoid complicating the issue with PH, until after your cycle was complete. It has to do with the buffering capacity of your water (KH). If it is too low and too much nitrogen waste is added, your PH can crash, taking a drastic nose dive. The bacteria you are trying so hard to cultivate doesn't do well at a low PH. It has happened to me recently. My tap water has a PH of 6.8 and is very soft. I don't really think that's what has happened to you, but it's possible. That is why I have been trying to get you to do massive water changes. What is the PH of your tap water? With enough water changes, you should be able to keep your tank water close to the same PH as your tap water. PT, I really think you need to do large water changes to keep your PH up. I'm going to say something else that may seem harsh. I think you need to consider the fish you have now "expendable". If you could take them back to the pet shop, that would be great. It would be easier to get through all this if you didn't have fish to worry about. Besides, your not going to be able to keep those fish in your 10, long term anyhow. Let me know what your tap water PH is. .....Hang in there!


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## Gunnie (Jan 20, 2005)

I agree with Ron. You need to be doing massive water changes to save your fish. If you decide to try the bio spira and can't find it locally, you can order with confidence at The Fish Store. I have used bio spira 3 times with excellent results and only order from the fish store. I used to be just a customer, but now I am a friend. That is where we have our gatherings every 3 months, and I know Bernie personally. His supply is never more than a week old, and he even ships outside of the US with great results! If you are going to keep your fish, then I would suggest you keep up with the massive water changes, get some amquel plus for now to add to your tank after a water change, and order a 1 oz. package of the bio spira (I'm assuming your tank is a 10 gal.). That will be enough bio spira for up to 30 gallons, and is the smallest package you can get. When it arrives, temporarily move your fish to another tank or bucket and completely drain your tank. Refill your tank, add the bio spira, and immediately add your fish back in. Do not add amquel plus to the water once you add the bio spira. Just condition it with regular conditioner when you refill the tank.


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## FISHFACE (Mar 2, 2005)

Be patient. Water changes help solve most problems. Do NOT Fear! The fish will love you for it.


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## PTCrow (Apr 25, 2005)

You guys are all awesome!! Thanks for your advice- I'm on the job. 
I wasn't in the office at all yesterday, so I just got your responses now. 
Expendable fish- ouch!  Anybody live in Jersey and want some really mean, yet attractive, Africans? Kidding, I probably will take them back to the store for their sake, or maybe I'll start all over with a bigger tank, also for their sake. 
Thanks again!


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