# Discus fry! (pictures included)



## snyderguy

In August, I moved into my apartment and about a month later, I separated the breeding pair and they have laid eggs about every 8-10 days. I've tried everything; taking the filter out so there is less water movement, and switched them to 100% RO water.... Finally, added methylene blue and what do ya know. It worked. I've got about 20+ fry right now. Pretty stoked. Here's some pictures. The one parent shown is the male, a yellow lemon. The female parent is a blue diamond.


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## iheartfish:)

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## snyderguy

Thanks! What I find really weird is that my male has been showing signs of fungus growth but he's still acting normally and taking care of the fry. Do you think the fungus growth is coming on because of stress or what do you think?


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## emc7

I would think it odd for fungus to grow on a fish with methylene blue in the water. Can you get a good pic and really zoom in. It could be an injury or bacteria.

Are you still @ 100% RO? That could bet the problem. If you are going to go with RO, you may need to add "Equilibrium" or some other mineral supplement. You will need some calcium in the water for the fry to grow their bones.


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## snyderguy

I'm still at 100% RO at the moment but I plan on doing a 5 gallon water change fairly soon and just putting my tap water in. It's full of all of that kind of stuff they need. I'll work on that picture right now. But I agree about how it's weird that he has a fungus when there's meth blue in the tank.


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## Mystery snail

Congratz Snyder... That is a a great feeling, breeding any fish, but Discus, cool stuff.... keep us posted


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## snyderguy

Thanks! Here's those pictures. Had to use the LED light function to get to see the fungus/spots...

Edit: Man, my camera is terrible at taking pictures...


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## emc7

That does look like a fungus. Usual treatments are salt and/or methylene blue. Looks like its attacking the lateral line. I'd guess the lack of minerals has destroyed the protective slime coat. Check the pH also. Water with no dissolved solids can have the pH fall off precipitously. While discus can take 4.0 better than most fish, you need to be careful with pH in super-soft water. 

I don't have discus, but I would recommend you hurry up the water change, darken the blue color to triple or quadruple intensity and post that pic on specialty sites like simplydiscus.com and http://forum.discusnada.org/


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## snyderguy

Well what's weird to me is that he has so much slime coat that at his fins, you can see the fungus coming off of him. Do you think salt would hurt the fry?? I've been on simplydiscus before and you know, I've never really cared for the people on there so I try to stay away from there.

Edit: And the thing that scares me is that my pH in my tap water is about 8.5, and so I don't want to add new water and hurt the fry. Hmm... stuck here. Help?


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## emc7

What is the pH of the tank now? You are right that you need to be careful about shocks. But IME, fish take moving up in pH and hardness a lot better than the inverse. Ken Davis told a story about one year at ACA when the table under the discus tanks collapsed and dumped fish, glass, and water everywhere. Some grabbed a discus and tossed in into a nearby empty tank that was buffered for a Tanginikan cichlid. And the discus not only lived, but won its class. 

You could start with a 1/8 tsp of baking soda to nudge it a just a bit. The other remedies I read about were things like salt, formalin, or potassium permanganate dips. Those would only risk the fry in that he might eat them when returned. But baths are pretty aggressive treatment, I'd see if he gets better without them in a day or two before trying something like that. Obviously, you want him in with the fry so they can eat the slime coat. But if he gets worse, I'd sacrifice the fry and save the parent. They will spawn again. All cichlids adults tolerate salt very well and it should work against fungus. Just ramp it up gradually and be much slower about taking it back out.

100% RO water is well-know no-no. Discus are one of a few fish that live in straight rainwater some of the time and can take it. But I wouldn't do it them for very long. Do you have a conductivity meter? One site says add enough tap water to get a reading 100-120 microsiemens for breeding pairs of discus. Older fry and non-breeding fish can take higher pH and much higher hardness. You could also use SeaChem replenish if you don't want to use any tap water. There has got to be a DIY mineral blend, but I haven't found it yet.


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## snyderguy

The pH now is about 7. I talked to some other people and they said doing like a 25% change should be ok without hurting the fry. Some others talked about taking him out and putting him into an extra tank. Unfortunately, I don't have one of these extra tanks so I'll have to do without but what I think I'm doing to try to do is like a 2.5 gallon change of just normal tap. I don't have any special chemicals or anything at the moment so we'll just hope this works. Otherwise, I'm not too worried about taking the male out. The female looks great and is doing a good job so far so I'm not worried about the fry not having food.


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## Betta man

congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## emc7

Sounds like a plan. If he gets worse by morning, you should try to get a 'hospital'. A 10 gallon or a rubbermaid bin or whatever. Cichlids usually bounce back with just clean water and sometimes salt, but you should be prepared. That is too nice a fish to lose.


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## snyderguy

So here's what I did... Took out about 2.5 gallons and slowly refilled it as to not trouble the parents. Gonna check on em again in a few hours and see how they are. Might do another 2.5 then as well. The fry on the other hand are starting to venture out. Mom and dad quickly pick em up and put em back where they belong. It's really amazing to see this kind of thing. Completely different than breeding guppies and platies 

Edit: The new water I put in was just tap water btw.


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## lohachata

DO NOT TREAT YOUR TANK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there is a reason he looks like that.....that is called "milk"....discus parents produce a secretion for the fry to feed off of...after they are free swimming you will see them picking at the parents sides....after about 3 weeks you can start weaning thrm from mom and dad..try baby brine shrimp...
snyder...send me your address and i will send you a couple of food samples...


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## lohachata

keep doing the 2.5 gal. changes until you are at about 1/3 tap..very soon you will see the fry picking at the parents..male first....then you shoud see the female producing a lot of slime as well...


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## snyderguy

You sure it's milk? I've never heard of discus doing this. Why isn't the female doing it then? I knew the parents create more mucus for them to feed off of but I didn't know it looked like a mixture between ich and a cotton fungus... I haven't added any chemicals or anything yet so thanks for the super caps warning 

PMed you my address, thanks loha! Really, I greatly appreciate this.


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## emc7

I knew discus fed the fry, but I never knew what it looked like. Watching any cichlid parent care for fry is fascinating.


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## snyderguy

I'm looking around a lot on google but I can't find anything like this. So far so good though. Fry are still squirming around as they're supposed to. I've seen a couple dead ones on the ground but I don't expect all of them to live. I'll be happy if 10 of them live...

Another thing I've run into is changing the water. So when I was looking around, a lot of people were all like "don't put tap water directly into the tank" and "only use pre-treated water!"... Now, how do I do this then? I don't have any RO water at the moment and all that's left is tap. Any suggestions?


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## lohachata

with small water changes i wouldn't worry about pretreating..it's not enough to alter the chemistry much...
this littlr piece of information came from the largest RO filter manufacturer in the US,,,,,
"100% pure RO water will not support aquatic life".......everything is removed...that includes all of the trace elements that aquatic animals need to survive.....

snyder.......you should have found this info when you researched RO ; or at least somebody should have told you about it...

good luck....i hope everything goes well for you...


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## snyderguy

Well, with the RO method.. I didn't do a whole lot of water changes. Maybe 5 gallons a week. So their feces broke down and kept the bacteria alive but I'm working on switching them to 1/3 tap and 2/3 RO... It was a rookie mistake but they're alive still and I've still got fry so we'll see how it goes. I'm gonna do another 5 gallon change today with RO mixed with tap. That should put me at about 25% tap and the rest RO.


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## snyderguy

Update: Did a 25% water change today, half tap, half RO... The spots on the male seem to have gone away a bit so that made me pretty happy. He's still acting and eating normally. Something more exciting too, saw some of the first free swimmers started venturing out today around the tank. Pretty cool to see. I wish I had a better camera so I could take good pictures of all of this.


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## Betta man

How often do discus spawn?


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## snyderguy

Mine lay eggs about every 7 or 8 days.


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## Betta man

Wow!!!! !!!


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## snyderguy

Haha yeah, pretty cool. But I'm not sure if they'll lay more eggs when they already have fry.


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## Betta man

That would make sense.


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## snyderguy

Well today the fry have started to swim around completely. They all hang around the blue sponge filter. Kind of interesting, I expected them to be all over the parents, but they seem alright. None of them seem to be able to swim extremely well yet and a lot of them sit on the bottom and skim around.

Edit: Ok so I did a bit of research and it seems a lot of people had the same problem so I took the sponge filter out and let the bubbler in and instantly the fry went to the parents. Counted somewhere between 5-10 fry. I'm gonna try to get some pictures but not promising anything.

2nd Edit: pictures


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## snyderguy

Well this sucks to post but I only have 2 fry left. My guess is as to what happened is the fry got attached to the sponge filter and by the time I took it out, they were already pretty weak and could not attach themselves to the parents. Lesson learned... Anyone have any advice in ways to avoid this? Besides taking the whole thing out?


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## emc7

no clue. I've heard stripeless discus parents aren't as attractive to fry as striped ones and some of the pale varieties are typically raised by wild-type foster parents. But that doesn't help you much.


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## snyderguy

Figured out my problem.... Wasn't cleaning enough. I went and scrubbed down all the sides and bottom and so much gunk came off. I couldn't even see it until I started scrubbing... Really disappointed but hey, I know what to do now for the future. I've still got 1, maybe 2 fry left so who knows, maybe they'll make it. If not, the parents are already acting like they're about to lay eggs again.


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## TheOldSalt

Don't meddle so much next time, and I think you'll be fine.


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## snyderguy

I'll keep that in mind. There's still 3 fry as of this morning though which is still pretty cool to me.


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## snyderguy

So far so good with the fry. They're getting bigger quickly. I have just been feeding them some crushed flakes and they take it. Had to separate them from the parents though. The male's spots have just gotten so bad that he wasn't eating, so raised the temperature a bit and put it some salt and it's doing the trick. He's back to eating again. unfortunately, my camera broke so I won't have any pictures :[


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## snyderguy

Ok so I actually sold the last 3 fry that I had for $5 each. Reason being, my pair spawned their biggest spawn yet and now have probably 50+ fry. There's so many of them, it's really cool. So far so good I think. Gonna try to not change so much water and see if that helps this time.

Another thing, my parents aren't exactly dark and knowing that the fry are attracted to dark objects, do you think i should take out my sponge filter? It's a dark blue and takes up a large vast of the tank? Last time a lot of the fry stuck around it and idk if they just got confused and starved or if they died for other reasons. Any help?


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## bmlbytes

Congrats on the large batch of fry.

The people on SimplyDiscus recently answered a question about the sponge filter. They pretty much said that discus fry will be attracted to the largest and darkest round thing in the tank. The round shape makes them think the sponge is an adult discus who can feed them. Maybe try triangular sponge filters?


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## snyderguy

Triangular? Interesting.. never really heard of one of those. Money is tight right now so looks like I'll have to just take it out and just have a bubbler.


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## snyderguy

Fry are doing very well as of the moment. There's so many of them, it's impossible to count them all. Tried to take a picture but the water is full of methylene blue, so it made it pretty bad.

Edit: Best I can do as far as pictures go.


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## bmlbytes

Lee's makes the triangular ones.

http://www.amazon.com/Lees-Triangle-Dual-Action-Filter-25-Gallon/dp/B002DVTDL6


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## snyderguy

Looks convenient, and it's white! So don't have to worry about taking the sponge filter out.


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## Fishpunk

snyderguy said:


> Looks convenient, and it's white! So don't have to worry about taking the sponge filter out.


I have several smaller flat round version of that sponge filter. They are actually yellow and they do not stay yellow for long. They will be brown and/or green within two weeks from gunk and from algae growth. But, you can get a lot of that to rinse out by squeezing it inside the bucket and rubbing it like they used to do laundry in the river many moons ago.


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## snyderguy

Yeah, I kinda figured that. Thanks though for the advice.


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## funlad3

That's great! I'm glad that you're having more success with them this time around.


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## snyderguy

Woke up this morning and all fry are doing well I think. They're swimming around and attached to the parents so they must be ok. But I found one dead fry on the ground. There's a lot of debris on the bottom so I'm gonna do a 3-5 gallon change and try sticking the sponge filter back in.


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## snyderguy

Pictures. These were laid a week ago. Sorry they're sideways


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## bmlbytes

That seems like a lot of meth blue.

Congrats on the fry.


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## snyderguy

It seemed like a lot but that was actually after a water change. Totally worth it though when trying to keep the fungus off the eggs.


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## snyderguy

More pictures, little better this time though. They are going to be 2 weeks old this Saturday


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## snyderguy

Ok, got a quick question for you guys... So the fry are growing really well and all and I know they're going to need other food here within the next couple days. They're 12 days old now since hatching. Only problem is, I've never done baby brine shrimp before nor do I have a way to get anywhere to buy some at the moment. Does anyone have any suggestions or anything? I have some frozen bloodworms, beefheart flakes, and some discus granules but that's about it. I'm gonna try the bloodworms tomorrow but i'm also worried about this winter break. I'm going home to see the family from the 23rd-25th. They fry are still munching on the parents but do you think this will be enough for them?

Otherwise, I'm going to walk to the pet supplies plus nearby and hope they have something. If not, maybe Meijer will?


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## Fishpunk

The beefheart might be a solution if you can get it cut small enough. Otherwise, there is always crumbled hard boiled egg yolk. I've never raised discus though. Some others here have, good to get their input too.


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## snyderguy

Went to my LFS today and what do ya know, frozen baby brine shrimp! Score! And they loved them, the fry went crazy when they were floating everywhere. I leave tomorrow early to head back to Indiana for christmas but I'll be back on the 26th. They're still feeding on the parents so I'm sure they'll be fine. I'll try to get a couple pictures tonight.


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## snyderguy

Pictures I took this morning, they're 15 days since hatching now.


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## funlad3

They're getting pretty large!  Great job!


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## snyderguy

Yeah they are! Really hoping they're still alive when I go back on Monday


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## ZebraDanio12

Thy grow pretty fast! I want to keep discus in the future some time. Ill be asking on you for help


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## snyderguy

Go for it! They're really interesting fish to keep


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## snyderguy

These guys are now 3 weeks old (since date they were laid) and 18 days old since hatching. They're dorsal and anal fins are starting to develop more now and a bit of coloring is starting to show on them.


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## snyderguy

Fry are still growing. I don't see the munch on the parents as much but still do see it at night. I'm going to be separating them by size into 2 different tanks soon leaving the parents until to have a break and recover. They aren't eating as much as they used to. The fry are are about as big as dimes now and are growing stupendously. They're now 25 days old :] Still haven't lost any that I know of yet either. I had one that was flipping around everywhere and was a good sign of a what I believe was swim bladder disease but did some water changes and he's all back to normal now. Never been able to cure that disease before


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## Pandapop

Oh wow, look at those little guys grow! Discus fry are adorable! 
I've never owned a discus before, and probably won't for a long time... but one of my dream tanks consists of at least two of these beauties. 

I've never been able to breed anything other livebearing fish (and they actually do that on their own, with little or no help from me) or barbs. This thread is really interesting to read! I hope you keep us updated! I'd like to see these guys when they start showing some real color!


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## snyderguy

Haha, they are growing pretty quickly. I separated the fry from the parents today to their own tank. Should be good for the parents to have a break. I've lost a couple fry due to swim bladder disease but I fixed it in most of the fry.


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## snyderguy

Fry have been struggling the past couple days and have developed what I think is gill flukes... I've been losing about 2-5 everyday. Not sure how to prevent/cure this. Any help??


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## phlyergirl

Prazipro by Hikari. You can order it on Amazon and it's very mild and won't harm them or your biofilter.


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## snyderguy

Thanks, will definitely look into it.


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## snyderguy

Been really struggling with the fry lately.. Since I moved them to their own tank, I've lost somewhere around 30 of them due to an ammonia spike. I figured that the tank was going through a cycle process again and it killed off most of them. This was about 2 weeks ago. Today, test the water and everything is at 0 ppm. But some fry are still dying. I'm down to about 30 fry now, which is upsetting, and I'm not entirely sure as to why they're still dying. My filtration is just a HOB filter that's built for a 55 gallon tank. Thinking it might be too much for the little guys and probably gonna go back to the sponge filter. What do you think? Really need some advice here.


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## snyderguy

A couple days later, some are still dying.... jfksadjfl;ksd


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## emc7

I had something similar happen with angel fry. The would start swimming funny, like paralyzed rear fins and die in 1-2 days. I would treat with prazi-pro and the dying would stop for a few weeks, then start up again. The tank is currently sitting dry awaiting bleach. Discus people raise fry in a nearly 'clean room' sterility so it may be they are super-susceptible to normal fish disease.

On the other hand, mass die-offs are usually water-related. The big water changes discus breeders give make any change in water dangerous. Have you checked pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, chlorine, even oxygen in you new water? Are the surviving fry better or worse after a water change? Do you have a place you can pre-treat? Maybe a small tank where you can put a "test fish" to try new water on, like a food-taster for a king?

There could also be a delayed effect. If a fish get its gills burned by ammonia, it might do okay until it gets big enough to need more oxygen than their injured gills can provide.

The other possibility would be food. Starving would be obvious, but not poisoning. Any spraying for bugs in you home or outside of it, any new packages started?


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## snyderguy

The burned gills kinda make sense to me. All the fry that look good (growing really well, round in shape and not football shapped) are all doing really well. They go crazy when it's time to eat. The ones that are dying are the football shaped ones.

I've checked the water time and time again and everything is fine. That's why I think it may be the burned gills. My pair just laid more eggs again so I'm really curious to see what happens when they get to be about a month old.

The thing is, they don't start swimming funny as if they're paralyzed. They just kinda lay around and then die.. I'm gonna try holding off of water changes. Right now, I'm doing about 50% a day but I'm gonna try to drop it down to 25%. 

It's just so weird that they've come this far and I didn't lose any and now all of a sudden they are dying off.


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## mpfsr

Be sure to let your water sit for 24=48 hours before you use it on the fry tank...Most water company's use co2 in there water supply to allow for less damage to there water pipes..letting the water sit will allow it to go back to its normal PH lvl. Even a small difference in water will kill off those fry. Every Discus breeder I know has a water barrel for there water changes with heaters and airstones to prep the water they do it for both the parents and the fry. I would also do smaller water changes more often say 10% after each feeding then 25% after last feeding.


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## snyderguy

Yeah, I've been doing that. I've got a big 55 gallon rain barrel that I store water in. I really need to find a better way to fill that sucker up. Been carrying buckets back and forth from the shower once a week. At least it's a good workout. And I'm definitely gonna try less water changes. Thanks!

Down to about 21 fry now.


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## emc7

Get a faucet adapter, a hose Y and a either a python, a lee's or Aqueon water change kit or a water-bed fill kit. It should include a long clear pvc hose and shutoff valves for both ends (you can also buy aqueon ends at petco). Bit of a pain and a risk of flooding if you aren't careful, but you can eliminate the buckets for filling the pre-treat bucket. 

Bigger water changes should give you faster growth, but mpfr is right that every one has a chance of shocking or killing fish.


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## snyderguy

I'm gonna try to let the water sit for a bit longer before putting it in and see how that affects the pH and so forth. I usually just wait overnight to put it in.

I'm also gonna head to menards today and get that faucet adapter.


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## snyderguy

Down to 13 fry now, not exactly sure what is going on still. I turned off the HOB filter though and turned the sponge filter back on. Maybe the fry are just tired from the water flow being too strong? Not sure...

Another one is dying though. I only feed them twice a day so maybe they're just not eating enough? I don't know... very upsetting though :[


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## emc7

Have you tried Prazi-Pro yet? Gill flukes are invisible killers and really hard to get rid of.


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## snyderguy

They are breathing pretty hard and I did try it actually. The thing is that they aren't scratching or spasming out or anything to make it seem like it's gill flukes.


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## lohachata

snyder........get some aquarisol to treat the tank......start feeding at least 4 times a day.....
Pm me your address and i will send you a couple of food samples for them....


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## snyderguy

What does aquarisol do? Pm sent. Thanks loha!!


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## lohachata

aquarisol treats a number of problems..one of them being several types of parasites , gill flukes , ich and a few others....it is also a good preventative if you often bring in new fish...i have been using it for decades..one of the few meds that i make sure i have on hand at all times....and it doesn't stain your water...meds i keep on hand are...
aquarisol...lifebearer...melafix...metronidazole..methylene blue...acriflavin...and formalin...
i use the last 3 meds for when i artificially hatch eggs...they help to keep the eggs from getting fungus on them...


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## snyderguy

Update again: Fry are about 2.5 months old now. They are growing pretty well now and have adapted to the plecocaine from loha! Thanks again! Still have 14 right now which is good. I'm trying to get the parents to lay more eggs again but they're being quite difficult. I've heard that if you feed mainly bloodworms and blackworms then they will spawn quicker. So I've been feeding a lot of bloodworms. The male does have some ich on him though, the darned stuff never goes away! So maybe that is what's preventing him from having the desire to spawn?


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## emc7

The closer to wild, the less often they spawn. Next thunderstorm do a largish water change with cooler (not cold) water.


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## snyderguy

Interesting point. I had the thought in the back of my mind about it being winter and all now. I don't know when the next thunderstorm will be, considering I'm in Michigan but thanks.


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## emc7

Any low-pressure system will do.


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## snyderguy

So as some of you know, I've had success with a blue turquoise pair. Here's a picture of the fry at 5 days old. This is the male as well..


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## snyderguy

That's not even 1/4 of the fry by the way


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