# Neon tetra's..... ARGGGG why do they always die at night..



## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

So my tank is completetly cycled and has been establed for a week or 2 at least now. I removed my 5-6 inch pleco cause he was way to big and putting off to much waste. I got my water tested and ammonia/nitrites are zero. Nitrates were high 120 but thats because i had ammonia in the 3.0 range and nitrites maxed out 3 weeks ago cause my tank was cycling. I have been doing daily water changes and then every other day and now weekly. I use prime also

I Have a 27g hex which had 12 fish in it all schooling fish mostly platy's. I got 10 neon tetra's 2 days ago and acclimated them for an hour in the bag i did another water change with prime before i put them in. They all seemed fine all swimming together on the bottom. The next day i did another water change in the afternoon and they still seemed fine. 6 hours later i went to bed turned the light off and in the morning when i was going to feed them i noticed my blue mickey mouse [platy was munching on the dead corpse of a neon.

Iv had this tank for 9 years now everytime i get neon's they always seem to die at night with the light off.. Why is that ? Im thinking of leaving the light on 24/7 now however its a bright light "t8 flourescent" and its in my room so i turn it off.

I dont have much for plants or cover on the bottom of my tank, just 1 plant on the side thats tall, and 2 big peices of driftwood that make a cave (they are u shaped standing up leaning against eachother) All my other plants are stuck on the walls on top and in the middle. Should i put more plants in the tank ? I dont have many so i dont know.. It makes me mad tho they all look really healthy. Bright colored no marks on them they all school together.. no lone wanderers. So why do they seem to drop at night ?

My fish are

3x Orange Platy
2x Blue mickey mouse platy
1x Black striped yellow platy
2x Black widow Tetra
4x Danio Roseus
1x Black Neon tetra

and 9 neons left out of 10


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2010)

ok 120 NO3 is BAD! huge water change is in order. do that and see how the fish are reacting. too much of lighting is bad as well. keep a 12 hour rotation and make sure its the same time. your neons are very delicate fish. they must be reacting to the high NO3 levels and them swimming on the bottom isnt good. they are top/middle tank swimmers.


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Top and middle swimmers ? You sure cause over the years iv had them. "Yes despite my crys iv had some that lasted for along long time" they always sit on the bottom in a group and just "twitch" around. They dont really swim.


I guess I'll keep doing water changes then. I did a 30% the day i got them before i put them in the tank, and i did a 30% yesturday also. I'll do another today.

However yea right now im looking at them. They are hiding in the back of my tank in the big cave i have and they arent swimming just doing the typical "twitch" movment. Here is a picture of my tank.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2010)

they look stressed to me. what are ur tanks stats? as of now.


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Ammonia and nitrites are zero, PH is 6.0-6.5 i dont know the nitrates i dont have a kit for that thats why i had the fish store test it 3 days ago. Should i remove the driftwood ? I cant get the PH to go any higher is been 6.0-6.5 for weeks so that isnt going up. Also i should note on the water change yesturday i sucktioned the rocks to clean tank out a little. I didnt make my water dirty just did a little cleaning, since the pleco is gone and rocks are clean. Ammonia load shouldnt be as high as it was anymore, and thus nitrites and thus nitrates should be getting lower over time right ? Even tho my ammonia/nitrites was zero the pleco, i must have had a huge bio filter established. Now it should be going down i hope with the bio load cut in half. 

According to aqadvisor he alone was equal to all my other 12 fish


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2010)

well yea. pleco's are poop machines. his bio load would be playing havoc with your tank. get ur Nitrate kit soon and test.


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

The thingi hate tho about water changes is.. My water has Chlorine and Chloramine in it. Thus ammonia is 1.0ppm when i tested it, even tho i use prime to remove the chlorine and stuff and the ammonia is still there. It may not be toxic with prime but its still there.. So if i change the water and remove 30% of the nitrates. Im putting 1.0ppm ammonia back in and it gets turned into nitrite then nitrate. So its like im just putting more nitrates back in the tank.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2010)

wait.....your water from the tap comes with 1ppm of ammonia?


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes, due to the chloramine which forms ammonia when it breaks down in the water supply. I was overhearing another guy in the fish store who noticed the same thing. He was talking about his tank having high ammonia and was told to do water changes and noticed his ammonia wasnt going down so he tested the water and the tap water has 1.0ppm in it just like mine. We both live in the same city. Most water anywhere has ammonia in it wherever you live.

I looked on google and its because of the chloramine so nothing can be done about that cept to add a drop or 2 of prime each 1 gallon i put in the tank with my milk carton i use. I need to get that nitrate kit, and test the city water for nitrates too. I suspect our water has nitrates in it also.

I might have to get some "real" plants in my tank to remove the nitrates. Cause i think putting 30% of 1.0ppm ammonia in my tank from the tap water isnt helping with my nitrate removal. Cause that just gets turned into nitrates.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2010)

prime is breakin down the ammonia and kickin off a cycle which is givin you a heavy NO3 count....makes sense.....i really do see wht else you can do......unless ur willin to let the water sit in a rubber maid for a few days with a filter and once NH3 is 0ppm use it to fill ur tank.


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Do biobag filters remove nitrate ? The white filters with the carbon rocks ? Cause i checked mine and it was super filthy. It was also breaking down i could poke hole in it with my fingers it was so fragile. I took some fish tank water ina bucket and swished the dirty filters around and the water was brown. Then i put a new filter in the water and swished it around washing all the carbon dust off and hopefully retaining some good bacteria and put it in my tank.. 

Maybe my filthy filter was doing something with the nitrate also i dunno lol.. My ammonis is now 0.50PPM tho, probaly due to the 30% water change with the 1.00 water lol. I used prime tho so it shouldnt be the harmfull ammonia.

Im going to the store today Ill try to find the nitrate kit.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

1 is better than 120 ppm. Keep up the Prime and water changes. Neons always die at night and stick to filter intakes, don't know why. The low pH isn't an issue for tetra, they won't mind. More plants? Yes, I think neons feel vulnerable without some shade. They are such bright sparky things, they are probably afraid of birds. Thats a tall tank, is there anything you can do to increase aeration or circulation (air-stone, power filter intake extension?)


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

I have a powerhead, that blows water and bubbles around, and the normal filter. I also have a 3 inch long airstone in the tank on the oposite side of the powerhead buried in my rocks.. There is nothing more i can do i dont think. I do unplugg the airstone at night tho, i have a 5 gallon pump for it and its pretty silent but at night i need it off when i sleep sdo i unplug it. However my powerhead and filter are running 24/7

The powerhead alone should be enough tho i can see the circular motion it does in my tank and i even see tons and tons of tiny bubbles all over the bottom middle and top of the tank all over cause i have it pointed down.


I went to the store and the lady got all aggrvated with me when i mentioned her danio's i got a week ago look sick from that store. She said the cycle goes ammonia, nitrate, then nitrite. I told her Ammonia, nitrite then nitrate i said i looked it up online and thats what people said. She got all huffy about it so i just said ok thanks ill keep doing water changes and left with my nitrate kit. I dont think she knows what she is talking about or something.

Anyway i got my nitrate kit and tested my mom's 35 gallon tank to start with and she has 0-5ppm nitrates. Im testing mine right now its been 5 minutes, the color is orange according to the API chart that came with the kit that is 10PPM. So my nitrates are fine actually... Either those test strips the fish store used were off by 110PPM or the 30% water changes i did the last 3 days lowerd it alot.

So my ammonia is 0.0, nitrite is 0.0, PH is 6.0-6.5, nitrate is 10. Im fine now right ? There is nothing else i can do to my tank.. I cleaned the rocks recently, i just replaced my filter this morning cause my old one was litterally falling apart i could stick my fingers through it lol. Should i keep doing water changes ? Or can i stop and do them once a week now..

My neons are still hiding on the bottom of the tank in there group, you said they look stressed. Im not sure tho if my levels are fine what else could it be ?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I would let it bubble all the time, but I get it if it keeps you awake you'd turn if off. Make sure the pump is above the tank or you have a check valve in the air-line or one day you could find a puddle in the morning around the pump. 

Store employees that think they know stuff they don't are worse than know-nothings that tell you go look it up. 

So nitrates, fine. pH, fine. Could be disease, or fear of light or other fish in your tank that is stressing the neons. Hows the temp? Are they eating?


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Temp is 78f, they do eat when i feed them. All of them split up all over the tank and gobble every morsel up they can see. Then when the food is gone they group back up and hide in the back of the tank or under the driftwood cave in my picture.

I tested the nitrates again to be sure cause i didnt shake the bottle or hold the top of the lid on tight enough on the first test so some water got out. My Nitrates are actually closer to 20 PPM. So id say like 15-20. I tested the ammonia again and its actually between 0.25 and 0.50 still after todays water change. That might be because i removed my old filter and replaced it with a new biobag and that took alot of my bacteria out, or maybe because of the 1.0PPM water in my tap. I did a 30% change and diluted that is around 0.25, im going to hold off on my water changes for a couple days since it seem the nitrates are undercontrol now. Give my tank a change to absorb the ammonia from the tap water iv changed for the last 3 days.


Btw how do you accuratly read these test's ? Do i hold the bottle up in the light and the chart next to it ? Or do i hold the bottle with the white part of the chart behind the bottle and then look. Because holding it up in the light makes the Nitrate look 10, and holding the white background of the color chart against the back of the bottle it looks closer to 20. Same with the other tests in light ammonia looks .25 with the white background it look .50


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Follow the instructions on the bottle, but I believe you generally hold it in front of white card in a well-lit place and compare to the card.


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## timmo2009 (Jun 10, 2009)

a good way to tell if your neons are stressed is to look at their gills on the side. If they look like they are breathing really fast, so the "gill flaps" are moving quickly in and out, thats a good sign of stress. Also From my experiences with neons, they have typically been swimming around the bottom as well. The twitching that you descriped might not be so good, but I think if they have more plant cover, they will also be happier.


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Well the twitching iv seen all neons do. When they are stationary in a corner together they dont move, just twitch to stay in spot. Its been 4 days now still just the 1 neon dead. So i think im ok now. However i dont know why they wont swim around my tank. They just hide in the back or corner of my driftwood. when i feed them they zoom around all over my tank... then after they just sit there

I add'd 2 more plants on the bottom, anymore and my tank will be way to crowded with things.. There gills arent moving fast at all. Very slowely in fact.. They are very bright colored too. I dont think they are stressed maybe shy tho.

Here is a pic of my tank now i added that green plant in the very front and the brown one in the back. You can see them hiding..











Dirty tank glass but thats in the back of the tank i cant really reach to clean










You can see them in the bottom right corner on this pic


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## timmo2009 (Jun 10, 2009)

those plants should help a bit i agree, I really don't think you got too much to worry about, not all fish constantly dart from side to side of the aquarium, you just got a photogenic bunch of neons  they sound like they are healthy and happy now. good job


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2010)

something must be spookin them. any fish thats making them uncomfortable? 

i read my test results by placing the beaker on the marker under natural light (as much as possible) and match it to the closest color.


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## Candymancan (Mar 10, 2010)

Found out why they are all sitting in the back and corner. Its because there is to much current in my tank in the other spots. I have a 201 powerhead "which is hardly anything when it pushs's water however it seems to be enough to make them stay in one spot" and i have its adjustable head pointed down on the left of my tank. This way it puts tons of bubbles on the bottom and all over, but it seems to make a strong current going in a circular motion around the tank. I watched them when they were eating swimming in the front of the tank fighting the current.

After i move the powerhead blowing up they all started moving around the tank. I need to figure out how to keep bubbles going down without the current now. Cause while i do use a 3 inch airstone on the bottom. At night i turn that off and without the powerhead pointing down i dunno if enough O2 will reach the bottom.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2010)

use an airpump and stone and get a HOB filter.


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