# overstocked?



## gnuisance (Oct 4, 2007)

here is what i have: 5 small tiger barbs, one 2" convict, one 3.5" convict, one 1.5" firemouth, 2 small goldfish. The tank is 25 gallons. Am I crowded in this tank or will this work okay??? Thanks for your help.

GNU


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> will this work okay


Not in the long term. The goldfish alone will get too big for the tank. If you have a pair of convicts you could get overrun with fry, too. Start asking your friends if they have a pond for the goldfish. The rest will be okay for awhile.


----------



## gnuisance (Oct 4, 2007)

the convicts are both males and I do not plan to keep the goldies long term, I think they will probably get eaten pretty soon.


----------



## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

gnuisance said:


> here is what i have: 5 small tiger barbs, one 2" convict, one 3.5" convict, one 1.5" firemouth, 2 small goldfish. The tank is 25 gallons. Am I crowded in this tank or will this work okay??? Thanks for your help.
> 
> GNU


goldfish DO NOT go with barbs, let alone any cichlids. I wouldn't be surprised if your convicts and firemouth end up fighting. a 25 is too small for just the 5 barbs.. barbs require a good amount of room as they are active fish.

i would highly suggest returning most of your fish or finding suitable homes for them asap. if you liked cichlids than I suggest getting a smaller species like rams..


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

No... The convicts will kill the FM, then each other. 25 is too small for 2 male convicts, they will fight. Also, the goldie will probably be harassed to death and the barbs might be in for some stress too.
How about researching before you stock tanks?


----------



## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I have to agree with all of the above.

*And,* the "they will be eaten" bit about the goldfish - this isn't a healthy choice.
a) neither convicts nor firemouths are piscavorous - they are more crustacean and insect eaters than fish eaters.
b) Even for fish that are piscavorous, goldfish (fancy or feeder) are a notoriously bad choice. They carry high levels of thiaminase, an enzyme that destroys thiamine (a B vitamin). Fish that eat goldfish usually suffer from vitamin B deficiency. 
c) if they are feeder goldfish, having them in the same tank (even if they are not eaten) is exposing your other fishes to numerous bacterial, fungal, and protozoal vectors. Feeder goldfish are about as healthy for fish as the food in the dumpster behind Burger King would be for us.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Listen to the ones who keep them. I have mostly africans


----------



## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

I don't necessarily think that two male cons will kill each other. As long as they really cons, which all stay very small, then you'll probably be ok. If you got them at a pet store, which I assume you did, they could get pretty big and definitely outgrow the tank.


----------



## gnuisance (Oct 4, 2007)

I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Always get several opinions before making a decision. But remember to think long term. If it works out ok for a while and then goes to hell we get to say "we told you so". Also asking a few people online is no substitute for actually research. Learn the needs of particular fish before you bring them home.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

According to Aquarium Atlas, convicts get 6" "are intolerent and bite" and are "Not recommended for a community tank". The temperament of individual fish vary and you may get lucky but your stocking is not one we would have recommended.


----------



## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.


that is understandable, but your tank is in fact overstocked. the 5 barbs alone need more than 25 gal. They are extremely active. Also your goldies will get beat up and nipped at constantly by the barbs, let alone your cichlids. You are potentially giving them a slow death..Just my 2 pickles.


----------



## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.


My uncle has driven drunk and not killed anybody (yet).
It doesn't mean he should ever go online and advocate drunk driving.
Just because something "worked out fine" doesn't mean its a good idea or smart thing to do.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I ALWAYS give advice as if my ongoing ability to put food on my table depends on it being good advice.
If I tell 10 people to not do something, and 1 of them does it anyway and the fish manages to survive - at worst I was overly cautious. If I tell 10 people to do something, all of them do it, and 9 of them lose all their fish - I'm at best an idiot and at worst immoral.

Way too many people confuse annecdotal evidence with scientific evidence - just because it happened to work for you one time doesn't mean its a good idea.

I happen to work at a LFS - lots of customers tell me "but it worked last time" when I diagnose an overstocked tank (or incompatable fishes) as the reason their fish are sick (or dead). They are confusing annecdotal success with success based on understanding how and why things work.
I had a customer last week who was mad that I refused to sell him a fish to go with his red terror in a hexagon tank. The reason ? He had already told me that it had killed every other tankmate he had tried, but because he "did it before years ago" it HAD to work. Never mind that the fish years ago was a different specimen and in a larger, more appropriate tank.

Lots of people will come online and say "I did this, it works". The ones to listen to are the ones who say "Here's why this should (or should not) work" - and point to the biology or behavioral science.

Or look at what professionals say - authors who also have to live by the "if I give out stupid advice I'll never be able to write another book again" -- if there is a fiscal penalty involved, people tend to give better advice. You will NEVER find a published author who will tell you to put temperate fishes (goldfish) with tropical fishes (cichlids), for instance. Basic biology 101 points out that they have different temperature needs. Does this mean you shouldn't listen to any published authors because they are not telling you what you want to hear ?

Or think of it this way -- any idiot can tell you to put incompatable fish together and you might be the lucky one for whom it works. Its alot harder to tell somebody "no" when the really really really want to put fish together than don't go together.
There's a reason people say "no" - one definition of maturity is "understanding why you cannot do something you want to do" -- understanding that people are telling you that something doesn't work for a reason is another.

I've had lots of people on here tell me I'm too conservative - then 6 months later there in here looking for help for their sick or dying fish after they ignored advice from me and several other veteran fishkeepers. Then 6 months after that they are selling their tanks.
(or there's the person who told us we were all wrong, then vanished for over a year, then came back with an empty tank without ever admitting that his entire tank crashed - then vanished again when I suggested he do more planning the second time around)


----------



## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.


Just because what our advice/opinion is not what you want to hear, does not mean its BS. Even if everything was friendly toward each other, your tank is to small for everything alone, if we followed the friendly tangent, they would die from the tank size/water quality alone. Then factor what everyone else has been saying.

Although, I have a feeling your going to do whatever you want.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2007)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.



long term is the thing here. not 6 months, not a year, but 2, years, 5 years, 10 years. the advice given has to do with when fish become adults. NO ONE on this site gains anything from helping you, so dont be so quick to say its all bs. but now if i were you, i wouldnt come running back asking for help when somthing goes wrong and expect someone to gladly help. Enjoy your tank


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't there is too much BS advice on the board because we correct each other. If the board has a consensus, its most likely spot on.


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7


If anything is BS, its that conclusion. You really dont know what your talking about, and claim that anyone who tells you what you dont want to hear is an idiot, even if its the truth. Im just going to stop offering advice, I can see you will never listen anyway.


----------



## Kyoberr (Dec 6, 2006)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.


You have to expect some bull crap. I'm sorry not everyone can be 100% perfectly right. If you want to keep a fish aquarium, you have to expect trial and error!


----------



## davedudeman (Jun 25, 2007)

gnuisance said:


> I have come to the conclusion that at least 50% of the advice I get on this forum is complete bullshi7. I have tried things on this forum that people have advised against and it has worked out fine. There is a degree of trial and error to this hobby and from now on I will be carefully scrutinizing everything I hear. Thanks to everyone who attempted to give constructive advice.


You have to realize people who post on this forum are hardcore hobbyists. Many of us would rather advise someone not to stick a pair of fish that we know don't work out well. That's not to say it couldn't work.


----------



## Guest (Oct 14, 2007)

Gourami Swami said:


> How about researching before you stock tanks?


Only if everyone did this....


----------

