# Lionfish tankmates?



## BettaFriend

Would anything go with a lionfish in a 55 gallon SWFO aquarium?


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## Revolution1221

what type of lionsfish are you taling about? some get larger than others and a 55 is just simply not wide enough for them. my favorite thing about lionfish is how fun it is to pet them!


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## BettaFriend

I am thinking black volitan.

(Dude, don't pet lionfish)


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## TheOldSalt

Black volitan tankmates?
That's easy:
LUNCH!

Actually, anything bigger than the lion will _probably_ be safe, but no fish that size will fit into a 55, which a lion itself won't after a year or two.


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## BettaFriend

You're probably right. I saw a youtube video of a lionfish and a triggerfish living happily in a 55g tank. That doesn't mean it's right, though.


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## Revolution1221

i know not to pet a lionfish it was a joke


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## BettaFriend

I know, I just didn't want some new-to-SW-fish person to get a lionfish to pet it. haha.


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## Revolution1221

lol u ruined my plan jk but really fox face rabbit fish are the best for petting


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## funlad3

Betta friend, probably a good choice on the lion fish...  They're messy eaters and usually bad roommates.

Rev1221, I know you're kidding (or at least I hope) because fox faced rabbit fish LOVE to cut your hand with their poisonous dorsal spines! 

:hbd:

to someone in the world!


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## funlad3

Sorry for the double post, but wait! Where do you "pet" all of these poisonous fishes? The store? You don't have a SW, unless you're signature is outdated!

And no, you need to try scratching a Dragon Moray Eel inside the mouth. They love it.


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## BettaFriend

lol right now I am looking at maybe (maybe) a pair of Flames (angel), pair of Clowns, and a Royal Gramma (party time!:fun

What do y'all three think (at least I think there are only three people how actively post on SW threads...)?


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## Revolution1221

lol i work at a petstore. i hate cleaning the tank that we keep the fox face in. i used to net him and just set the net across the tank so it would not get me. one time i looked and didnt see it in the net so i got freaked out lol. lately ive gotten more brave and just clean it with him in there. but its a 60 tall tank so trying to reach to the bottom of the tank and still being able to see where ur putting ur hand is pretty imposible!


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## TheOldSalt

Whoa, whoa, stop right there. You don't put a "pair" of angels into the same tank unless that tank is over 300 gallons. Why not? Because if they are not a true pair, they will NOT get along and wind up trying to kill each other.

A pair of clowns will defend their turf, so make sure they can set up on one end of the tank, well away from everyone else.


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## funlad3

I'm sorry, but what size is the tank? I've seen a Royal Gramma and a pair of clowns get along with a bunch of smaller fish, but again, it all depends on the tank and the individual fish involved.


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## DTetras2

Ya, noooo pair of angels! All-out fish-fight! Clownfish are very fun to keep Royal Grammas are good choices, but don't get any other fish that look like it, or it'll be a second all-out fish-fight! You have to post the size of the tank, or we have no idea what to say


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## BettaFriend

Wow, a new person! Welcome to this SW thread DTetras2!

Sorry, we pretty much changed the topic off lionfish (and hopefully we wont go back, right guys?)

Ok, I got some explaning to do. A very high up SW fish master from TFK (who I trust with my fishes lives) said that Flames needed to be paired. He said that they can establish there own pair after a few days of "working out 'who is boss' ". He said they should be fine after the first week.

You guys think otherwise? I don't know, this guy has written page after page after page of SW stuff. I will ask about y'alls concerns on TFK.

Thanks!


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## TheOldSalt

*IF* you have a true male and female pair, then you're golden. So... do YOU know how to tell the difference? If not, then you are messing up.


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## BettaFriend

It is very diffecult to tell the difference between the 2 genders of Flame Angel, but some fish (like clownfish) can change their gender to make a pair. Maybe Flames are the same way?


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## TheOldSalt

Oh for crying out loud.. I'm talking to a brick wall here.
Fine. Whatever. Do what you want. Just don't come crying back to us about it when the advice you ignored bites you on the butt.


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## BettaFriend

I am not trying to be rude, I am just repeating what I have heard. Honestly, due to risk and budget I probably won't get Flames. I am just examining all my possabilities. I can listen to a brick wall, if that is what you call yourself. lol

I will probably go with a pair of firefish (along with the clowns and Royal Gramma). I am expecting to get 40lbs of LR soon. I haven't ordered anything yet, in fact, I don't even have the tank, or EVEN know for sure what size the tank is.

Thanks for the help TOS!


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## funlad3

TOS, I think BettaFriend was simply asking a question. To be fair to both sides though,, it isn't hard to Google it and find out if flames are hermaphrodites. (according to live aquaria, "The Flame Angelfish is hermaphroditic, very difficult to breed in an aquarium, and has no distinguishable differences in color between male to female.")

Just trying to keep a fight from occurring is all... We don't want to offend anyone (Either of you!) I've seen too many fights in old threads to want to see another.


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## BettaFriend

I was simply suggesting 2 because someone said they needed to be grouped in pairs. Perhaps I can get by with one...

I know that when reading things, it can sound different than what the person intended it to sound like. I have not tried to offend anyone and I have not been offended by anyone. So, one this end, I'm cool

Sorry if I have offended anyone! I didn't mean anything I have said so far to be offensive. We are just SW-fish-loving people helping me decide what to put in a glass cube designed for holding water.:smile:

Thanks for all the help!


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## funlad3

If we didn't all piss someone of on one of these forums, they wouldn't be entertaining enough to read. (And again, if I'm doing this right now, I'm very sorry.)

Have a good night everyone, I'll still be online for a little while longer.


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## petlovingfreak

Depending on the size of the tank and type of lionfish, generally groupers, eels, any larger fish should be fine, but in a 55 you are very limited. But a fuzzy dwarf lion would do ok in a 55 gallon for a while. Ok, sorry just read the other posts.... Um... I'll just stay out of this one, lol.


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## Fishfirst

Flames are difficult to pair up. A large tank is needed to make a large one and a small one co-exist long enough to change one to male and the other to female. You could always buy them as a pair. The diver's den has flame pairs occasionally... maybe you can con a petstore into trying it for a few weeks too.


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## BettaFriend

Oh, sorry. I forgot to post my plan on this thread. I have another one that I like better. I think I posted a link earlier, but reguardless, here is my plan.

2 Clownfish
2 Firefish (goby)
1 Royal Gramma
and maybe one more fish...

That is it. Done with some LR (almost one pound per gallon). I know! It will cost a fortune.

Anyway, everybody thinks it is a nice plan. I know clowns and RG are slightly territorial, I will take care of that (LR).


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## funlad3

I recently saw a tank (maybe 55 gal.?) with a HUGE Royal Gramma (5ish in.) 2 clowns, and maybe 10 other damsels. (I don't know how, but they somehow succeeded (This isn't me telling you to try it!)) It was totally overstocked, but had a six foot tall skimmer (Again, don't try it!) The point of this impossible tank is that with well aquascaped live rock, Grammas and Clowns can SOMETIMES live together. But then again, anything can sometimes live together. One Gramma and two clowns should be fine. And for the price of live rock, you'd have the same results in a few months with mostly base rock and some live rock (70%-30%). Check Craigslist. People are constantly taking down old tanks and you can get good LR for $2-$5 per pound, not to mention full setup tanks (sometimes with fish and coral!) Or for the internet company route, base rock is $2 per pound here:

http://reefcleaners.org/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=34

That's where I'll be going when I actually have a tank. (Grr! "See my What are the Odds" post) It was recommended by someone else on this site.

Let's see what everyone else has to say and get some of those contradictory viewpoints that only SW fish keeping can give us!


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## BettaFriend

This setup, I do believe, is not overstocked. The fish would be added very slowly, probably starting with, I don't know, the Royal Gramma(?). These fish do show small amounts of aggression, but a fish expert told me it would be Ok.

As for the LR, I have found that dry rock is alot(!) cheaper, and it produces many more invertabrates than base rock. Acording to one of my SW expert friends they say the base rock is a waste of money.

Just repeating what I have heard, though, I am not saying I don't trust the sorce.

Thanks for all the advice! It also is repeated on the other side, so don't think it doesn't have any effect.


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## Revolution1221

BettaFriend said:


> This setup, I do believe, is not overstocked. The fish would be added very slowly, probably starting with, I don't know, the Royal Gramma(?). These fish do show small amounts of aggression, but a fish expert told me it would be Ok.
> 
> As for the LR, I have found that dry rock is alot(!) cheaper, and it produces many more invertabrates than base rock. Acording to one of my SW expert friends they say the base rock is a waste of money.
> 
> Just repeating what I have heard, though, I am not saying I don't trust the sorce.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice! It also is repeated on the other side, so don't think it doesn't have any effect.


the reason why getting rock dry is cheaper is because it is dead and not living anymore so u dont get all the benefits of having live rock in your tank. at our store we have some beautiful live rock with purple coraline algae starting to grow on it we sell for $7 a lbs and we have our insane live rock that is nothing but purple in our show tank we usually sell for around $15-$18 a lbs depending on the rock. ive heard that justliverock.com i believe it is, is one of the best sources for buying live rock.


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## BettaFriend

Maybe my fish-expert friend had it mixed up. He said that you buy dry rock dead and then it seeds in a couple weeks, giving the effects of LR. He said base rock was dead, or at least mostly dead.

All he used for his 180 gallon aquarium was dry rock and it seeded fine. There is noticeable invertabrates all over the rock. All kinds of SW people from TFK use dry rock, and they all give it 2 thumbs up (maybe because my SW friend posted a link to the site he bought his dry rock from). but I guess Revolution1221 would know alot about LR types, working at a fish store and all. 

I will look into the dry rock/base rock thing a little further. Thanks guys.


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## Revolution1221

BettaFriend said:


> Maybe my fish-expert friend had it mixed up. He said that you buy dry rock dead and then it seeds in a couple weeks, giving the effects of LR. He said base rock was dead, or at least mostly dead.
> 
> All he used for his 180 gallon aquarium was dry rock and it seeded fine. There is noticeable invertabrates all over the rock. All kinds of SW people from TFK use dry rock, and they all give it 2 thumbs up (maybe because my SW friend posted a link to the site he bought his dry rock from). but I guess Revolution1221 would know alot about LR types, working at a fish store and all.
> 
> I will look into the dry rock/base rock thing a little further. Thanks guys.


lol i actually hardly know anything about salt water so i could be wrong. i was under the impression that when u dry live rock all the benificial micro organisms die that live within the live rock.


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## TheOldSalt

Even worse, the stuff inside dies, rots, and clogs everything up something awful. Don't ever let live rock dry out if you can help it.

Dry vs base depends only on one main thing--> how big a hurry you're in at the time. 
If you have time aplenty, you can use dry rock and seed it yourself. This is cheap, and clean, but it's slow, resulting in a tank you'll have to suffer through cycling.
Base rock is already live, but ugly. It's cheap because it's plain and ugly, but it works immediately as filter media, so your cycling is not a problem. It could be considered a waste in some ways, but I would rather call it a luxury; it's nice to have, but not crucial. You'll cover either one with decorator rock anyway, of course.

Grammas aren't that nasty, really. They puff up a lot, but they're really big chickens. Give one a hidey-hole and it will behave itself nicely.


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