# New to plants, but not new at all to freshwater



## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

Hey there! A bit of a intro, as well as a request for info. I'm Sean =] I'm 18, and I'm addicted to aquariums. I was raised in Florida, and at the beach almost every day, so I firmly believe that's where it all began. I feel at peace when in the ocean, I feel like I'm where I belong. ANYWAY! In case you were curious of my name, ReebAF, Reeb is part of my last name, and AF is for Air Force since as of June 16th, 2011, I am Air Force property  an I love it, I can't wait to move on. 

Now, after than brief, quickly ended intro, my question is as follows:
Is there a minimum for a well made planted or mossy aquarium? I plan to buy a 12gal JBJ nanocube and run with it, it comes with 24W of 50/50 light, so as far as medium light requirements, I'm golden, I just didn't know if that'd be too small or crowded. Also, the fauna for the tank is iffy. I want something with a max of 3/4-1" I want to get a nice school of 6-10 without stunting growth or causing a lack of oxygen for the fish. I was thinking about Rasbora Heteromorpha, but I've read they can get up to 2" and that's no bueno. I also want to be able to have fish, some shrimp, and a clam (for filtering purposes) all without fights and dead things in the morning, if at all possible. I already have a layout of the tank in mind. I'm going to have a slope, and a diagonal slightly curvy river made of flat stones going from the middle of the top, down to the bottom left corner. On the right I will have a heavy slope, and a base that is flat at the bottom, on said base I will get a smaller piece of driftwood and grow some flame moss on it, sorta like a tree I saw in another aquascape. On the top left I want a second piece of driftwood with 1 or 2 branches that are long and go parallel to the ground to run to the other side of the tank, on this piece I will grow java moss, and perhaps some viny flora to elude a weeping willow tree. On the bank or the edges of the "river" I will grow hairgrass, and around the bass at the bottom, I will grow baby dwarf tears, and maybe a bush or two of something else. I really liked the idea, my main challenge will be the slopes and finding the exact driftwood pieces I need. Anyway, I guess I'll leave you with that and begin my vigorous research and Chinese food inhaling. Take care =]


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2012)

First I would like to say: Welcome to the forum! That would be a very nice setup for your tank.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

Thank you for the welcome, and for your comment relating to the layout =] Any ideas on the fauna? Again, needs to be small, I'm thinking a MAX of 1.5" but I'd prefer even smaller than that, and preferably colorful, or bright, or interesting looking, not some bland 1" minnow.


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

If that's what you want, you are looking to do a nano tank. Welcome, by the way!

You have it planned out very well, and I have a feeling it will be beautiful.

Nano tanks can be really attractive. For a nano tank like you are looking for, I would recommend glo-fish. They are genetically altered danios, I believe. They are very nice looking in a nano-tank and would do well in 12 gallons. According to the person who developed them, you can house 25 in ten gallons... Yeah right. But a school in a twelve gallon would look nice and they would be happy.

I am not sure about freshwater clams, but apple snails would be fine and they, too, are quite attractive at times. You would also be able to keep some shrimp, like you want, without problems as far as I am aware. 

All in all, it sounds like a wonderful tank you have in plan. I can't wait to see your project get going!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Look at celestial pearl danios (danio margaritatus) or clown killies (Pseudepiplatys annulatus)


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

Will never touch any glo-fish, I personally do not agree with them, please don't reply to this, I am not here to start debates. As far as apple snails....never again....they breed nonstop, I had a 45gal with hundreds of them about the size of a pea and growing. They never stop. I saw some celestial pearl danios on a site I frequent (not sure if I can post links to merchant sites) and I thought they were beautiful, so that's a complete possibility, just a wee bit expensive at $8 a fish  But that is definitely a potential route =] Thank you for the advice and for the compliments on my aquaskape ideas, I couldn't stop thinking about it last night! I'm so excited!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Look for a local breeder. I'm told they "don't ship well" and I lost one of mine after only about 4 hours in a bag. But once they got home, they've been hardy and healthy.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

emc7 said:


> Look for a local breeder. I'm told they "don't ship well" and I lost one of mine after only about 4 hours in a bag. But once they got home, they've been hardy and healthy.


I'll look around, perhaps the guy that owns the marine shop also dibble dabbles in freshwater.

EDIT: I also placed an "ad" in the buy section for nearby breeders of small fish =]


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Welcome to the forum. 

I just read your thread. I can picture your scape in my mind and I like it...all the way until you started dropping flora like baby tears and dwarf hair grass. As soon as you start adding plants like these you need to consider a co2 system of some sort. Or just go without them and keep it simple. Also can you change those lights out at all? 24w is alot for a 14 gallon with no co2. If its a dual bulb system consider removing one of the bulbs. Oh and a 50/50 bulb is generally for saltwater. Try to find a 6500k-6700k bulb.


Nano tanks are really cool. Im excited to see how this turns out.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

Thank you for the tips! And That's true, I just want some sort of "lawn" or "bed" if you will, and something like cat-tails around the river. I want this to look like a real scene, with random floating fish. Thanks a ton for the tips on lighting! I knew about 50/50's in SW aquariums from all the endless research on marine bio., I figured it applied to both though, thanks for the tip =] I'll do some more research on lighting =]


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## blindkiller85 (Jan 8, 2011)

There's always the standard Neon/cardinal tetra's, in a 12g tank I would think you'd be able to hold 6-10 for a good school.

Going bigger but still bright and colorful could do a pair Rams. I don't think they will go after your plants. But with a 12g, could only go with a pair. 

Grogan, I think it would depend on the choices of plants he wanted for the watts per gallon. I know you know more than I do with this, but at 14" depth and going baby grass and dwarf tears I would think he would need closer to 2wpg. None the less the other plants he hasn't quite figured out what he wants just yet. Of course going with 65-6700k bulbs would be better, as the actinic's really don't do anything for FW. Timing on how long they are on is the main key.

Regardless, can't wait to see pictures Reeb!


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh 2wpg is just fine. All Im sayings is with higher light and no co2 it usually ends in bba disaster. A liquid bottle of co2 would do just fine here.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

What's "bba"? And thank you for all the tips! I found a 24g with stand nano cube for $130 in my area! That's cheaper than a stand alone 12g tank from JBJ! :O So I hope he's still got it by the 11th so I can go pick it up, I'll probably clean up the stand to make it look nice ans resell it since I won't need it.


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

Well, upgrading definitely increases possibilities! 
Bba is Black Beard Algae. 
Lots of other small fish are colorful, like emc said. If you are working within a budget, I suggest you visit a local fish store to get an idea of cheap fish that you like. Any fish store will do, except remember when buying that chain stores aren't the best to actually buy from.

And apple snails are prolific when there are more than one, but they need two to reproduce. Nerite snails are very nice and their eggs only hatch in saltwater. They just like to lay eggs everywhere.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

All I've got is a Petsmart :/ And if I get the 24, then I will bump the max to 2in, MAYBE, I really like the idea of small fish schooling, I have a school of 5 Rasbora Het. in my 10gal, and they're lovely. And I guess, but just one snail?


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

Yeah, I know... One is never enough >.< 
If petsmart is all you have, petsmart is what you'll use. I don't know if you want to buy fish online, but it would definitely defeat the purpose of looking for cheap fish as you'll pay twice as much for shipping. 

Schooling fish are great, especially in the setup you plan to do. 

If you want more than one snail, then nerites are the way to go. You can have as many as you want, and there will be no babies. You just might have to deal with a few white eggs around the tank, but they will keep it all clean from algae, so that's a plus.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

Well if I order more than one fish, then shipping won't be too bad, $90 in fish plants and inverts, $10 in shipping, that's ok for me. The petsmart we have doesn't carry shrimp anymore, and if they do it's ghost shrimp, I want more color than that  And they did away with the plant tank, now they have those tubes that I'm sure you've probably seen, so no more snails either (they kept the snails in the plant tanks). So my only way of getting nice inverts, the snails I want, and plants that will grow fully submerged, is either online or a club, so I might as well get my fish in the process =]

With all that being said! It's still a work in progress, I've still got more cracks and niches to poke around in to find what I'm looking for, so I'm by no means settling as of yet.

And to Grogan on the light topic, this 24 comes with hood lights filters etc, the whole 9 yards. So I will ask what lighting he has to see if an upgrade/downgrade is necessary. Will keep yall posted! 

As for snails, I'll probably get 3-5 Poso Orange snails. A bit pricey, but they're absolutely gorgeous O.O But I do like the nerites, they look amazing too, and so do assassins! UGH! I can't decide!

Edit, I have decided that I will use Pellia attached to a rock for the "bush(es)" or some torula ruralis, and Instead of HC, perhaps Riccia Fluitans, I've looked t it, and a bed of that would look beautiful.


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to post this depressing update.

I just brought up the idea of the tank to my father, and got immediately shot down because I'm leaving for Basic June 5th, and he doesn't want to take care of anything I leave behind so he'll put my fish in his tank, empty mine, and throw away the plants.....Even converting my present 10gal would be a waste because it's all going anyway. So unless I can find someone nearby willing to harbor it for a few months, I'm screwed. The time would be 2-5 months. 2 if I can put it in my tech school after basic, and 5 if I have to wait until my first duty station. However, there is a small silver lining, I am still allowed to purchase the 24gal + stand that I saw and just box it up and put it in storage until I can use it. That did make be a little happy because this is an amazing deal. a JBJ 24gal ON SALE is $225 by itself, the stand is another $85. I'm saving a ton with this deal. So anyway, Once I get to my duty station I'll come back to pick up the 10, 24, and 45 that I have dried out in storage (that's another story) and I'll have tons of tanks.  So until next time! Have a great day!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sorry to hear. I was going to give you a link http://www.redfishmagazine.com.au/editions
#3 has good pics of nano fish.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

ReebAF said:


> Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to post this depressing update.
> 
> I just brought up the idea of the tank to my father, and got immediately shot down because I'm leaving for Basic June 5th, and he doesn't want to take care of anything I leave behind so he'll put my fish in his tank, empty mine, and throw away the plants.....Even converting my present 10gal would be a waste because it's all going anyway. So unless I can find someone nearby willing to harbor it for a few months, I'm screwed. The time would be 2-5 months. 2 if I can put it in my tech school after basic, and 5 if I have to wait until my first duty station. However, there is a small silver lining, I am still allowed to purchase the 24gal + stand that I saw and just box it up and put it in storage until I can use it. That did make be a little happy because this is an amazing deal. a JBJ 24gal ON SALE is $225 by itself, the stand is another $85. I'm saving a ton with this deal. So anyway, Once I get to my duty station I'll come back to pick up the 10, 24, and 45 that I have dried out in storage (that's another story) and I'll have tons of tanks.  So until next time! Have a great day!


That stinks... but good luck in BMT! Air Force, right?


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

hXcChic22 said:


> That stinks... but good luck in BMT! Air Force, right?


Yes ma'am, gonna be an Airman =] Thank you!


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

ReebAF said:


> Yes ma'am, gonna be an Airman =] Thank you!


My husband is in the Air Force too! Any idea what job you're going in for (or at least what they're telling you now)? 
And BMT isn't so bad... so I've heard. Just keep your head low, your mouth shut, and don't be afraid to correct your other flight members if they're about to do something that will get you all in trouble!


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

hXcChic22 said:


> My husband is in the Air Force too! Any idea what job you're going in for (or at least what they're telling you now)?
> And BMT isn't so bad... so I've heard. Just keep your head low, your mouth shut, and don't be afraid to correct your other flight members if they're about to do something that will get you all in trouble!


My AFSC as of yesterday is Geospatial Intelligence, my number 2 pick on my list of 10  And yeah, heard the same thing from my dad (AF 20 years retired) just go as long as you can without being noticed. I plan to cross train in PJ once 5 years rolls around (got a 6 year already signed).


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

ReebAF said:


> My AFSC as of yesterday is Geospatial Intelligence, my number 2 pick on my list of 10  And yeah, heard the same thing from my dad (AF 20 years retired) just go as long as you can without being noticed. I plan to cross train in PJ once 5 years rolls around (got a 6 year already signed).


Well, I hope you get to keep it! I could never sign up for a job not knowing what I was going to be doing for sure... urgh. 
My husband's job was supposed to be VIDS (Visual Imagery and Intrusion Detection Systems), but it got changed on him AFTER tech school and he was placed into a Radio shop, which then got merged into another field, so now he is finally settled as a Network Technician. He's never actually trained for what he does other than on-the-job experience. :shock:


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## ReebAF (Jan 31, 2012)

hXcChic22 said:


> Well, I hope you get to keep it! I could never sign up for a job not knowing what I was going to be doing for sure... urgh.
> My husband's job was supposed to be VIDS (Visual Imagery and Intrusion Detection Systems), but it got changed on him AFTER tech school and he was placed into a Radio shop, which then got merged into another field, so now he is finally settled as a Network Technician. He's never actually trained for what he does other than on-the-job experience. :shock:


That's very very iffy. Well, I'm signing paperwork for this job next Wednesday if my recruiter has it by then, so hopefully I don't fall into the same situation :/


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

Good luck!


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