# super high tech plant system



## lohachata

i'll bet that got a few folks interested.....lol

i have a special customer that wanted some Aponogeton Ulvaceus and Aponogeton Madagascarensis...so i was lucky and was able to order some..
this past thursday i got in 35 bare bulbs of each..
Friday afternoon i put all of the bulbs in a 30 gallon extra tall tank...bare tank with only a sponge filter...lighting is a standard 4' shoplight with T8 32 watt daylight bulbs...
i took a couple of pics tonight but will have to wait until tomorrow to post them..i will be taking weekly pics and posting them to show their growth rate until i ship them out to my customer...
these are not cheap plants , but they are worth every penny..these are 2 of the most beautiful plants that i have ever seen..
a very deep tank is need for them as the Madagascarensis will easily exceed 24" and the Ulvaceus will exceed 36"....
Madagascarensis are one of the most unique plants in the world...here are a couple of pics of mine from a year or two ago.....




























those plants were 3 months old....


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## BettaGuy

Looks like you will be spoiling the plants with all that hitech equipment. Just make sure not to overdo it, as a great aquarist once said "the more you mess with an aquarium the more goes wrong with it"(or something like that).


and yes people I was being sarcastic, and I was trying to quote loha


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## Coolfish

Why is it super high tech? Do you own a fish store?


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## lohachata

nope....no fish store here....you will see the set up soon...lol


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## BettaGuy

Coolfish, look at some of lohas planted fishtanks and you will see the hightechness in them.


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## lohachata

ok....here are some pics that i took of the plants last night and today.....as i said...late friday afternoon i put a total of 70 bare Aponogeton bulbs in a tank..35 each of Ulvaceus and Madagascarensis...as you will see , the Ulvaceus are much faster growing than the Madagascarensis....
so...it has been a total of 5 days.....the light is off but it is only a standard shoplight...no special bulbs...just regular daylight T8s.....the tank is a 30 extra tall....























































that food container with the blue top is about 7" tall


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## BettaGuy

Thats some amazing growth for just 5 days. Crazy how you do that without all the special plant stuff.


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## Coolfish

How did you get them to grow fast?


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## lohachata

cool...

i am not a fan of the special high end lighting and the co2 injection and fertilizers....i do own a pretty good co2 system but have never used it...i have used ferts before but haven't for the past few years....the highest output lights i have are a couple of 2 tube T5 48" strips..all the other lights in my fishroom are plain old 4' shoplights with 2 T8 32 watt daylight bulbs...
it is my contention that you don't have to drop $1500 or so to grow plants in a 55-90 gallon tank....no co2..no ferts....i use fish for co2 and ferts...just like god does.....

i don't do anything special to grow these plants...i could probably get them to grow a little faster by lowering the lights ; but i am not going to bother....they are doing fine...

after i ship the plants that my buyer wants i am going to finish growing out the rest of them...i already have a dozen or so customers wanting 24" + plants at $25.00 each....

my next project for this coming spring is to build a growout tank for them...probably will be 48L X 36T X 24W.....hopefully by the end of next summer i will have at least 100 plants to sell...

i will try to make sure to post pics of these each week with their progress...


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## Coolfish

I don't believe it. You don't use root tabs or co2 idk man.


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## lohachata

nope...i don't use a thing ..the only thing in that tank is water and a sponge filter...but i do plan on putting in a heater maybe and a few small fish...
the co2 unit is in my storage locker..and the only ferts i have is an unopened box of miracle gro.........if i really wanted to make them grow like crazy i could just mix up a special batch of the miracle gro and toss it in the tank.....
you see ; i am really not smart enough to effectively use all the equipment for a high tech plant tank ; so i just stay away from it....i leave that stuff to the wizards.....

i like simple....


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## emc7

I have one of the extra tall tanks empty. I wondered what it was good for. I always think it is cool to see the live plant my plastic plants are modeled on.


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## ZebraDanio12

I have some apon. bulbs coming in the mail too. I don't know what species yet, or how many....But from my understanding should be a bunch. The ones I already have have flowered....a lot. Theres like 7 flowers at once on one plant... Interesting flowers.


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## Fuzz

lohachata said:


> my next project for this coming spring is to build a growout tank for them...probably will be 48L X 36T X 24W.....


Acrylic? I'd like to at some point make an odd sized/shaped tank...That's an experiment I'd like to tackle when I don't have a million and five other things to do.

Anyone got a mess of scrap acrylic?


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## lohachata

i don't like acrylic...i use plywood..


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## Fuzz

plywood and glass? or just plywood?


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## lohachata

i make a plywood box...cut out a window in front....2x4 brace along front and back...a few coats of high quality epoxy paint..lay it face down on a couple of sawhorses.....beads of silicone on inside of tank around the window opening...carefully lay in the glass...about 8 bricks wrapped in towels around the edges of the glass....smooth the edges of silicone squeezed out...let cure 48 hours...
fill to test for leaks...no leaks...drain and rinse once more..put it in place and fill er up..


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## lohachata

ok ....so now it has been about 8 days......here are a couple of updated pics taken about 2:30 this afternoon.....the lights were on this time....




























as you can see ; the leaves are not only getting longer ; but wider and more wavy....and the netting is starting to show more on the lace leafs....


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## Cory1990

To bad my planted tank isn't taller. It's looking good so far John.


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## lohachata

ok..i had to take a couple more pics today because they have grown a bit more....lol...

pics from yesterday......................



















pics from today................................


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## BettaGuy

Loha you are definitely a wizard or something. Those plants must have grown at least 5 to 10cm over night!!!!!!!!! Please tell us your secret  

like seriously


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## lohachata

bg.....just read this thread....all of my secrets are here...no smoke and mirrors..no magic..
no co2..no ferts...no special lighting...heck there aren't even any fish in the tank anymore...
i am a wizard of nothing.....still a novice..still learning about this hobby...i just try to keep things as simple as i can...
like i said earlier.....as you can see ; the Ulvaceus grow much faster than the Madagascarensis...also.....the madagascarensis likes temps a little cooler and slightly more light...it is also good to keep some otos with them to keep the leaves clean...or maybe some snails that won't eat plants....


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## emc7

You should do a time-lapse video. Like this one of an apple snail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quA3h7FwXDA&feature=g-all-u


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## lohachata

emc.....i have trouble just getting into FF....timelapse photography is about 347 light years beyond me....lol.....
but i do admit....it would be pretty cool to see...


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## BettaGuy

I read the whole thing from the beginning but it still amazes me what you are doing without fertz and so on.


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## lohachata

no magic...nothing amazing....believe me ; nothing i do is amazing..lol..
how do you think people maintained absolutely incredible planted aquariums before there were high tech lights , special fertilizers , special substrates and co2 injection systems ?
this is new technology...none of these things were around 30 or so years ago....
why don't i use the new technology ?...because i am just not smart enough..too many things about it that i just don't get...mother nature is so much easier to understand..
while incredibly complex nature can be quite simple....which is right up my alley..i am not a very sophisticated person....i really do like to keep things simple...
aquatic or terrestrial ; what do plants need to live....light...food..water...oxygen and co2...yes..plants need oxygen..when there is light they take in co2 and give off o2...when there is no light the process is reversed....
when was the last time you saw god with a big ole bag of fertilizer dosing lakes and rivers ??......what does he use for fertilizer ??.....decaying plants and the bodily wastes from fish and from land animals that gets washed into the lakes and streams when it rains....for light god uses the sun...well...we just cannot touch that...so we have to do what we can with bulbs...but you don't have to have a $500 metal halide light to have nicew plants..back around 1974 or 75 i had a 240 gallon planted tank..it got entered in the " home aquarium beautiful " competition in our club..it took 1st place in natural category and best in show...nothing man made allowed in the tank except heaters and filters....this was an 8 foot long tank...24" deep..substrate was gravel from the shores of lake erie...home made undergravel filters along with a pair of 600 GPH HOB filters...rocks driftwood and hundreds of plants..crypts , swords , aponogetons and a few others...lighting was 2 single 48" T12 vitalight bulbs.....and the tank was loaded with fish...actually quite a bit overstocked...
everything in the tank took care of the needs of all of the needs of the system..the only things i did was feed the fish and do my weekly water changes...

so......anybody here can get the exact same results with these plants as i do...this week i will be adding some fish to the tank feed the plants...

geez o man....i really didn't mean to write a manuscript....sorry guys...you don't have to read it...it is just me babbling...lol


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## Cory1990

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I just read all of that. I think sometimes the fish world is over complicated and once you stop listening to the over complicated stuff it gets easy.


Now I have one question for you John, you said there's no fish in the tank and your not adding any ferts so what are the plants eating?


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## lohachata

there used to be a pair of angels in the tanks...i didn't clean the tank for almost 3 weeks before i moved them.. then did only a 30% water change without taking anything off of the bottom...
at the rate they are growing they will be ready to ship within the next couple of weeks...
and i may have to post growth rate every day or so.....lol...i think i need more batteries for the camera..


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## lohachata

this afternoon's pics....not a huge amount of difference ; but some...

madagascarensis........










ulvaceus...........


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## Cory1990

Looks like everything's going well for only two angels to be feeding all the plants.

You should add pics of your fish room, I see all the PVC pipe everywhere does that run water to the tanks or air for filters or is it just for the house?

I watched a YouTube video where this guy had a huge air pump with pipe running all over the room that powered over 100 sponge filters. It was fancy looking stuff.


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## lohachata

yes , the PVC is for the air supply system.."huge" is a realtive term..loli don't have a huge air pump..it is about the size of a 5 gallon tank...right now it is running a little over 100 lines...and has power for more..
i did post some pics of the fishroom awhile back...it hasn't changed much...but i will be changing a few tanks around pretty soon....but i still need more room..

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fish-aquarium-pictures/35115-fishroom-almost-done.html


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## grogan

Haha our definitions of "super high tech" are quite different. But I get what your point is. You don't necessarily have to have all the fancy bells and whistles to have amazing plant growth. (with some plants) awesome project John. Makes me wonder what would happen if I tossed a bulb in my ADA tank, would it compete? Hmmmm


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## lohachata

well grogan ; as i am sure you know that the title was just to get folks attention..lol
i think that high tech tanks are ok if one has the time and money to put into them..
i have seen a number of $3000 set ups that were beautiful....but for $3000 i could buy 5 or 6 breeding pairs of L-46 plecos...which could mean an extra $3000 a month income....possible more..about a year ago i was talking to a guy the set up a top of the line high tech 240 gallon set up...all the latest stuff...tons of plants driftwood and some special rocks....$14,000.............with that kind of money i could boost my income to over $100,000 a year...but the guy was well off...had a job making over $150,00 a year..he also inherited a good deal of money from his grandparents.....so he could afford it..........me........not in a million years....lol
besides...like i said.....i am just not smart enough to figure out all that stuff.....technodummy.....lol
if things go right this coming year we are going to try to set up a bigger planted tank...not sure what size yet , but at least a 125...i ave co2 gear but don't plan on using it..most likely just better lighting..some T5-HO units...we'll see how it goes..


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## lohachata

i was going to takes pics again tonight but i got lazy...there is 18" of glass between the top and bottom frame edges..the tallest Ulvaceus leaves are approaching 12 inches already....will soon be ready to ship to my customer...don't know how many i will have left after that...i think i may have to order more...


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## Cory1990

If you end up buying more seeds ship a few by me! The plants look pretty neat. I like the leaves I also checked out your fish room pictures it looks pretty nice.


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## Cory1990

Not sure if you know this but kitty's also like the plecocaine haha just seen that the cat knocked over my jar and was eating it up


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## grogan

Ulvacius is a truly stunning plant. It's one of my favorites, I just wish I had tanks talk enough to appreciate it.


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## lohachata

that's the biggest problem grogan....maybe a 110 tall would work..or just build one..

oh yeah cory...i forgot to mention about the cats and dogs...


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## lohachata

it has now been 2 weeks.....recent pics.....

2 days ago....


























tonight............


































as i said...the madagascarensis are much slower growing than the ulvaceus...


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## airickj

What is your ratio of growing bulbs to duds?


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## lohachata

i was just looking at the tank and it apppears that only 3 or 4 of the 70 bulbs haven't sprouted ...but these are not the bulbs you get from walmart and a couple of other places..take a look at how big these bulbs are...also these are bulbs from the 2 most expensive of the aponogetons...
so there is a far better sprout rate with these....but at the prices i paid there had better be because they have no guarantee...

i think i may start selling the plants in the next week or 2...they are overtaking the tank already..


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## lohachata

a couple of new pics taken today at 2 P.M.......

madagascarensis...tallest is about 8"










ulvaceus...


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## BettaGuy

unbelievable!!!!! You definitely got a green thumb loha


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## lohachata

there are plants for sale.... if any one is interested PM me.....


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## ZebraDanio12

How much??? I loving these. May buy a few.


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## Fuzz

I read somewhere that you need to pull Aponongetons and cut off all the leaves and roots for a "hibernation"-like season. Is this true? How long is the period and what is the exact process?

I want something different than Swords for a big background plant...and i like the look of aponongetons


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## ZebraDanio12

Fuzz, I think that's with flowers. If they shoot up flowers, you cut them off to keep them from hibernating....I could be wrong...


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## lohachata

yes ; you can remove the flower spikes to keep them from going into the rest period..but that is not always good for the plant...
the wife has pollinated some of the plants and we now have a couple hundred baby plants...we'll keep a few plants going for the seedlings and then put the other up to rest...


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