# Help me stock a 29g.



## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

I've also got a 29g that I'm looking to make a cichlid tank and I'm really not sure what I want to go with. I prefer tanks to have more smaller fish instead of fewer larger fish, hence the reason I've stuck to smaller tetra's and such in the past, but if I can do a cichlid tank along similar lines and make it look good, I'd like to.

I've got 5 peacock fry (.5") in there now, which I will probably trade off as my reading tells me they are not ideal for this. I would like to make this a nice planted tank with plenty of rock work and some wood as well, it's the style I do most of my tanks in. I'm got a reasonably variety of plants to work with stashed in tubs outside, so don't mind picking specific types if I have to.

Any ideas?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

What's your water like? That tank would be good for a breeding pair Neolamrpologus brichardi, or a bunch of shell-dwellers such as neolamprologus multifacistatus. One the other side of the water spectrum. A group of apistogramma or dicrossus would be nice in a planted tank and you could have some top-dwelling fish like harlequin rasboras as well.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

yeah your reaaly limited on cichlid selection for a tank that size because most get descent size. pretty much a pair of of ones that stay under 8 inches would be the most suitable. if you really want a cichlid tank you could do a couple pairs of dwarfs. some you may want to look at would be german blue rams or gold rams. any type of apistogrammas(borellii's and cacatuiodes being some of the more common ones) but if you get them online or off aquabid you can get some really nice ones they have breed for strong coloration. dwarf flag cichlids or red breasted dwarf flag cichlids, keyhole cichlids are all great choices. they are monogomis fish so getting a male female pair of a couple types can make for a great tank as they will hang out with eachother all day long. they stay small pretty much under 3 inches. a heavily planted tank with lots of hiding places is more than perfect for them they wont dig up your plants and you may even be able to get them to spawn.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

My city water has a tendency to drop once in the tank. I'm running an experiment of sorts on one of my other tanks, seeing if I can buffer it a bit higher. It's pretty neutral aside from that, not too hard, not too soft.

Ya, the dwarfs look like the might work out very nicely. Anything specific you would recommend? The cichlid section of aquabid is rather hard for me to navigate. 

Starting to think a colony tank would be nice, but I'm not against having a few pairs. What would you stock if you were in my position?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I've seen some beautiful borelliis lately in Atlanta. Fall auction is Sept. 19. Worth the trip.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

emc7 said:


> I've seen some beautiful borelliis lately in Atlanta. Fall auction is Sept. 19. Worth the trip.


yeah same here we were getting them through tropical fisheries at first they had no color annd looked really bad and they suck their fish always come covered in ich lately so we stopped ordering from them and have been going through a pet and they have been absolutely beautiful.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

sneasle said:


> My city water has a tendency to drop once in the tank. I'm running an experiment of sorts on one of my other tanks, seeing if I can buffer it a bit higher. It's pretty neutral aside from that, not too hard, not too soft.
> 
> Ya, the dwarfs look like the might work out very nicely. Anything specific you would recommend? The cichlid section of aquabid is rather hard for me to navigate.
> 
> Starting to think a colony tank would be nice, but I'm not against having a few pairs. What would you stock if you were in my position?


they should be listed right under apistogrammas and idk what the dwarf flag cichlids would be under but also check live aquaria.com the apistos are under new world cichlids but i believe theres are just assorted apistos asside from the double red cacatuiodes and orange burst ones. but pairs is a much better choice because typically if you do a colony have them it can be a little more difficult because when they pair up any ones left out will be singled out and bullied. other people may have suggestions on other dwarf cichlids but those are the ones i know of and love.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

emc7 said:


> I've seen some beautiful borelliis lately in Atlanta. Fall auction is Sept. 19. Worth the trip.


I'll try and make it, It's about a 2hr drive for me, so I'd have to make sure it's worth it.



Revolution1221 said:


> they should be listed right under apistogrammas and idk what the dwarf flag cichlids would be under but also check live aquaria.com the apistos are under new world cichlids but i believe theres are just assorted apistos asside from the double red cacatuiodes and orange burst ones. but pairs is a much better choice because typically if you do a colony have them it can be a little more difficult because when they pair up any ones left out will be singled out and bullied. other people may have suggestions on other dwarf cichlids but those are the ones i know of and love.


I'll look and see what I can find there, Thanks.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

I think I'm leaning toward apistos now, some nice one's on aquabid.

What would work better, buying 6 and letting them pair off and trading off the ones that don't pair, or buy them in pairs? 

2 or 3 pairs?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

if you know you are coming up Sept. 19, you can post a WTB here: http://www.atlantaaquarium.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=3 and arrange pre-auction pick-up (get a cell-phone # so you can find people in the crowd). Also check the "what can you bring to the auction" thread a few days before it. There are nice A. borelli, "rokpunkt", caucatoides (orange flash and triple red), being bred in the club as well as 3 kinds of pelvicachromis, and 2 kinds of rams. Aquabid is great, but a 2 hr ride may beat paying shipping (or just the risk of shipping fish in August in the South). There are usually sellers of food there too, (cichlid Xtreme, frozen bloodworms, freeze-dried blackworms). 

I would try first for a "breeding pair" and second for 2 pair or a trio depending on the fish. For caucatoides, a reverse trio (females tend to kill males). Most apistos can be sexed pretty small, so you can get the sex ratio you want.

One bigger fish that might work and is dirt cheap in Atlanta is the "rainbow cichlid" Herotilapia Multispinosa. Its at the top end of the size range, you might not be able to keep anything but a few top-dwellers with a pair.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

sneasle said:


> I think I'm leaning toward apistos now, some nice one's on aquabid.
> 
> What would work better, buying 6 and letting them pair off and trading off the ones that don't pair, or buy them in pairs?
> 
> 2 or 3 pairs?


most apisto's are easily sexable and you can buy them as male female pairs. if you let them pair off on their own its possible to lose some of them especially if there are not equal amount of males and females because they can single out the ones that dont pair off and go after them. i dont know exactly how much apistos actually do this but ive had bad luck trying it with rams and that was in a 55 gallon where they had plenty of room to get away. my original male female pair would beat up all the new ones before they had a chance to pair with eachother.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

In that size tank, you'd likely only keep one breeding pair, but I'd start with more than one of each sex just in case you lose one. IME its not uncommon to lose a few in the first few days you have them.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

this is pretty odd but really interesting... just found out that my borellii isn't really a borellii but a species that mysteriously appeared out of no where and is possibly a cross breed of a borellii. they are commonly sold as borellii's apperently. all and all and interesting article. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_sp_Steel_blue.php also on the far right of the page check out the pelvicachromis taeniatus


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The borellii in the Atl. club (most came from George Libby's line) look like the Borellii on that site (nice link, BTW). Last auction a breeding trio went for $60, but fry are pretty cheap. I've got P. taeniatus "Moliwe", P. pulcher and P. Subocellatus pairs, all are making the BAP circuit. I think roloffi are around, too. 

Serious American and European cichlidophile try to keep species pure, even to the collection location. The Europeans are into serious line-breeding for color, long-fins, etc and some breeders aren't above introduction a related species into the line to get more variability. Asians (commercial ops, not necessarily individuals) are more into hybridization, trying to gain a competitive adventive with a more colorful or a easier to raise product. Most "dwarf gouramis" are hybrids.

Unintentional hybrids happen also, even in the wild (once separate bodies of water are being connected for navigation and irrigation), but also in breeding operations (usually because they accidentally got males of one fish and females of another), wholesalers, even retailers tanks. I would think that smaller fish would be easier to keep apart, but those are the ones that go through the pipes in connected tank systems. Suspect a hybrid if the fry are highly variable, asymmetric, and/or throw a lot of deformities. But you'd need genetic testing to prove it. There are new fish being collected also and locations may be kept quiet, esp. if they come from a place with export restrictions. But hybrids are often passed off as "new fish" (esp. on the net) and it takes awhile for people to catch on.

One thing about the BAP program in the club is you get to see a fish periodically generation after generation and they are healthy and beautiful. Hybriids that don't breed true don't keep going.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Wow, lots of replies in the last few hours. I'll post on that board and see if I get a reply. I'd like to have something in the tank before then, but I guess these peacock fry can tide me over. In the few days I've had them they've already dropped their lower fins and those fins have already colored up, a very nice blue, kinda surprised me.

I'll do some googling on those in the morning, hopefully something catches my fancy. 

So what's recommended to round out a tank then, some random high water tetras?


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

There's a member on the Atlanta forum by the forum name of HN1. I know for a fact he's got a trio of Borelli. Or, at least he did the last time I saw his fish room. I would recommend sending him an email and seeing if he's got any fry.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Sent him an email, will see what he says.

There seems to be a reasonable amount of variation between all of the species in regard to colorings, at least to some degree. I guess I shouldn't find that weird, but the variations are interesting.

edit:

Nope, as of now he doesn't have any. He's got some Atahualpa fry and 2" Orange flash males. I googled them, not sure if I like them or not.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

where would I find kribs on aquabid?


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

It looks like there arn't any. Strange... Even searched the scientific name.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There aren't kribs (pulcher), but there are similar fish, Pelvicachromis taeniatus. Look in West African cichlids. Keep watching the AAAA, there should be a lot of chatter right before the Sept. 19 auction.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

I'll keep my ears open. 

Someone on Badman's offered up the idea that normal Kribs are now too 'common' to be found on aquabid. Not sure how accurate that is as I've never seen one in a petstore..


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Actually, that's a good theory. Many stores have them and they are on the big, online fish sites. That likely means the large scale commercial breeders have caused the wholesale price to drop to where small breeder can't break even. Likely any LFS can order them from the wholesalers list, so no one bothers shipping them.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I've never seen a Kribs in a chain pet store, but our LFS carries them on occasion...


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

My not-so-local fish store had like 15 last time I went in there. If I remember correctly they were also wild caught. The one closer to my house had around 5 last time I went in, but that was a while ago. Maybe it's a location thing?



hXcChic22 said:


> I've never seen a Kribs in a chain pet store...


Good. I hope to keep it that way. Last thing we need is another beautiful species ruined by Wal-Mart.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

if you cant find kribs anywhere and really really want them i could probably ship you a pair we have like 20-30 at the store i work at. they would cost $5 each then whatever shipping and handling is. id probably ship 4 of them just incase one doesn't make it because i couldn't really do live arival. but i have access to breather bags and everything but id need some advice on how to ship them from people lol.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks guys, I'll consider all that.

I'll prob wait for the AAAA Sept auction, and then if I don't find any there will look at buying them from other sources.

We only have a petco locally, all of our LFS have fallen apart.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There are usually some in the auction and there are 3 LFS around that sometimes have them. Here the link to all store around town. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...4.01738,-84.357147&spn=0.471246,0.841827&z=10 I'd call The Aquarium Store and Aviarium, Petland dunwoody and maybe marine fish. If you are determined to have kribs, you'll find them around here somewhere. But if you don't get kribs in the auction, I bet you'll find something else suitable. Other pelvicachormis or apistos or laetacara.


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## sneasle (Jun 25, 2008)

If I'm gonna drive 2hrs for a fish, I'd rather buy them from a member then a store.

But I'll keep that in mind if nothing else works out.


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