# advice for a cichlid noob ?



## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

got a 30g and a place to put it so thinking about starting a cichild tank.
heres what im thinking.

2 Labidochromis caeruleus
temp 78
ph is 7.6-7.8
water is hard
fine gravle substrate
large rocks
hob filtration

any1 see any possible problems here or have any general advice ?


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

Sounds great to me.  With those large rocks try to make as many caves & hide spots as you can. They are great little diggers so make sure the rocks are not supported by sand/gravel or they may tumble and smash the glass.
Enjoy, Sue


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You could prob. have 4 in that tank. But try to get only one male.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

ill see how my funds are for more than 2 of them, im doing this on a budget and would rather spend the money on a canister filter(instead of the hob) instead of 2 extra fish.

are they ok in 2s ? or 3s ?


p.s. not sure what the situation is in the us but here in the uk (especially at my lfs) these fish are quite expensive. so that was the reason behind my logic


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes I think those fish will be ok in 2s. If you get 2 males, they won't have any females to fight over and if you get a pair, they will get along, and they may make more fish for you. Here in the Atlanta club, labs are nearly worthless. I'll give some to anyone who asks.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

wow. 4 is nearly a weeks earnings for me. ill see if i can get a pair.


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## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

I disagree, think 2 is to few and the dominat of the 2 will harass the sub constently. They dont form pairs and their agression is about food/territory. Need multiple fish to spread it around and for targets to get lost in the mix. I also think a 30g is to short for room to run from agressors.

Personally I would look at less agressive species that are smaller. Species tank is prolly a good idea. 

Just my opinion and its obviously nothing like the above so who knows I could be clueless.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

any1 able to shed light on the above ?

would this filter do it ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquapro-1-External-Aquarium-Fish-Tank-Power-Filter_W0QQitemZ370090519362QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370090519362&_trkparms=72%3A1296%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Labs are one of the least aggressive mbuna. I think two can have territories in a 30 gallon long (36") tank with lots of rocks.


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## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

Agreed they are one of the least agressive but still far more agressive then your garden variety. It would work when they are juvies but once mature there woudl be issues. Male would harass a female constently to mate even when holding. 2 males would obviously forever hate each other. 

Just saying in my experience you really need 5 or more when it comes to mbuna. The more agressive sorts like demasoni you obviously need much larger numbers but labs i would say 1m/4f would be a respectable ratio. 1m/3f might be double depending on the personality of the male but think the 4 females would be the safe route.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

2 females ?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Agreed that 4 would be better and a 55 gallon would be better still. But if you start with little ones, they may breed at 1.5" inches and then he will have more than 2. Would advise that if they start acting incompatible, he trade the largest to the LFS for 2 smaller ones and keep it up until they seem happy. I started with 3 demasoni and didn't have aggression trouble until they were double the size they started breeding at. It is pushing the boundaries a bit, but IMO workable with care. 

BTW Sin, Your garden variety what? 

J&A, Can you get any Tangnikans where you are? That would be lovely N. lelupi tank. You could start with one pair.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

i could ask if my lfs could get them in. But im pretty sure they dont have any in stock, they deal more with saltwater


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## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

garden variety cichlid. common ones usually include rams, angelfish, apistos, kribs. i guess it all depends on the shops near you. prolly a bad term to use.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

That filter has a 5X turnover rate for a 30 gallon. A little wimpy for a cichlid tank, but should be adequate. 

Garden variety cichlids here a M. Lombardoi, and Red Zebras, so labs are mild by comparison. 

Check out this link: http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1614. 
Any of the small Julies, or brichardi-type tanginikans would allow you to start with a pair and end up with a tankful. Ask the store if they would be buy babies if you bred them.


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## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

julies and bricks are nice, shellies would be nice also. with a 30g could go with multis and julis and leave some open water between the shellbed and the rock bed. both species would populate the tank without tons of cash.

my multi/juli tank


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

gone with a Eheim filter instead(one with a 1000lph turnover) instead.

would it not be a good idea to keep the Labidochromis caeruleus in a 30g then ?


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## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

I wouldnt advise it. Personally think 30g is to short of a tank for any Mbuna. Just not enough room to run. Other disagree though


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The tank is a bit small for Mbuna Eventually the biggest fish, usually a male, could become aggressive enough to keep all the other in a upper corner and keep them from eating. If you buy normal pet-store size fish, this is probably 3-4 years out. I think you'd be ok, and if you got an esp. mean fish, you could exchange it for a smaller one. Sin thinks that with only two, one would pick on the other all the time. I think they would go to "opposite corners". That if you have enough rocks and hornwort or whatever to break up the sight lines, one might chase the other "out of sight", but that they wouldn't hurt each other. 

For julies or brichardi, that tank is spacious and you could even have multiple pairs. If you have the options of tangs, it could be a better choice.


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## Sin (Jul 29, 2005)

nice size colony of either starting from a single pair. unfortently once a pair forms everything else in the tank must die as far they are concernd. the first batch of fry though should do very well for a long time.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

if i were to buy a bigger tank what sort of size would i need ?
or
would one be ok ?


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

emc7 said:


> The tank is a bit small for Mbuna Eventually the biggest fish, usually a male, could become aggressive enough to keep all the other in a upper corner and keep them from eating.


I had 6 in a 55 gal and this is exactly what happened to me. The dominant male kept everyone hemmed up most of the time.:chair:


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I would have said a 55 is big enough, but mine are only 4" and I have like 20 in a 55. Hearing from Peach, I'd say go up to a 75. All Mbuna get meaner as they get bigger. You can keep Mbuna in smaller tanks when they are young, but have a plan for what to do if they get too big and mean.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can keep a lone Mbuna iin a 5 gallon, though I don't recommend it. In a 30, sure. Not much make good tank mates, though. Maybe a pleco.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

might just keep the one in a 44g long ive seen for sale. long as it will be ok ? or keep my eye out for a 75. not in a hurry, got to cycle the new filter anyway


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

m8 has a 100ish witch he is willing to donate so looks like the project is a starter


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The bigger the tank, the less likely you are to have aggression issues and the less likely it is to "crash". For Mbuna the bigger the better. 1 lab alone in the 44 could live its whole life (warning these fish live more than a decade if properly cared for).


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

great stuff, should be picking the 100gal up soon. so ill start a post on the blog section so all can see how its going along


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## TBS_Dave (Oct 6, 2008)

if you would like some cichlids in your tank, look into getting a pair of brichardi, w/in time you'll end up w/ 300 in that tank w/ no fights


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

Brichardi do great in a species tank and yes, they breed like crazy -very beautiful fish IMO


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