# My tank's PH



## MGonzo85 (May 16, 2010)

I can't seem to get my tanks PH and Alkalinity under control. My PH number is running 8.4 and the Alkalinity is showing 300 according to these test strips that i've recently purchased. I bought PH decreaser yesterday and have been working on this and it hasn't seem to change one bit.

My fish have been really active, eating well.. except tonight my Parrot is sitting at the bottom and not eating. Is this because of the Ph and Alkalinity? Is there any good advice on decreasing these numbers?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

8.4 is maybe a little high but pretty average and baiscly all of the freshwater fish you can buy are gonna be used to it except neon tetras they need around 6.5 so they are one of the hardest fish to keep. and alkalinity is average your not gonna be able to change that without using chemicals also i strongly recommend not using any sort of chemicals unless you absolutely have to as they will be hard on your fish will stress them and make them susceptible to disease


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## MGonzo85 (May 16, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> 8.4 is maybe a little high but pretty average and baiscly all of the freshwater fish you can buy are gonna be used to it except neon tetras they need around 6.5 so they are one of the hardest fish to keep. and alkalinity is average your not gonna be able to change that also i strongly recommend not using any sort of chemicals unless you absolutely have to as they will be hard on your fish will stress them and make them susceptible to disease


Thanks for your advice. I suppose the chemicals is whats making my Parrot Fish stressed out. I never had to use test strips on my freshwater aquarium so this is very new to me. I've always just changed my water and put in chlorene remover and I was done lol.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

MGonzo85 said:


> Thanks for your advice. I suppose the chemicals is whats making my Parrot Fish stressed out. I never had to use test strips on my freshwater aquarium so this is very new to me. I've always just changed my water and put in chlorene remover and I was done lol.


yeah the good old days right thats how my dad took care of all his tanks and they seemed to do fine but he was never able to keep a lot of fish in on tank but now with all the stuff you do to them it allows your fish to be healthy and you can have so many more for example he cant keep more than around 8 fish in a 20 gallon or they start dying i have over 50 fish in my 60 gallon aquarium. however it may not just be the chemicals that are stressing it out there can be so many other things doing it things like tank size, tank mates, adequate hiding spots, and amonia/nitrite levels. but it could be chemicals also the thing with ph up and ph down is it takes sooooo many treatments to actually really start getting somewhere the treatments only do a little at a time but then guess what soon as you do a water change it brings it right back up so its a never ending cycle with tap water. and yeah 8.4 is average tap water is typically 8-8.4 and fish have been raised in breed in it for so long that they are used to it even the water in their natural habitat can be pretty high.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

MGonzo85 said:


> I can't seem to get my tanks PH and Alkalinity under control. My PH number is running 8.4 and the Alkalinity is showing 300 according to these test strips that i've recently purchased. I bought PH decreaser yesterday and have been working on this and it hasn't seem to change one bit.
> 
> My fish have been really active, eating well.. except tonight my Parrot is sitting at the bottom and not eating. Is this because of the Ph and Alkalinity? Is there any good advice on decreasing these numbers?


also forgot to mention dont waste money buying test strips pretty much all pet stores test for free especially petco and petsmart they can also help break it down and explain everything to you better like whats normal and whats not even if it appears high on the test strip it can actually be in the normal zone.


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## MGonzo85 (May 16, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> also forgot to mention dont waste money buying test strips pretty much all pet stores test for free especially petco and petsmart they can also help break it down and explain everything to you better like whats normal and whats not even if it appears high on the test strip it can actually be in the normal zone.


Thank you. I believe that will be my next step.. going by Petsmart and let them do a test and explain to me of whats going on and what I can do to treat this problem.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Gonzo 8.4 is an extremely high pH, Like in saltwater range. Most fish will only get used to this if they are acclimated for a long while. A normal pH is around 7.2 to 7.5.
First you want to figure out why your pH is so high.
What decorations do you have? and sea shells or crushed coral?
whats the pH of your tap water?
And limestone in your water?
Im assuming if nothing is working at keeping your tank pH down, then you have something in your tank that is keeping your pH at that level. Believe me your going to want to get your pH to a manageable level.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> Gonzo 8.4 is an extremely high pH, Like in saltwater range. Most fish will only get used to this if they are acclimated for a long while. A normal pH is around 7.2 to 7.5.
> First you want to figure out why your pH is so high.
> What decorations do you have? and sea shells or crushed coral?
> whats the pH of your tap water?
> ...


dude your dumb tap water ph is 8-8.4 go get yours tested unless you have well water which is usually neutral at 7 i test atleast 10 peoples water a day and trust me 7.2 is not normal


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

hey Revo! shut up already! i run 7.2 on my tap water! if this guy is runnin 8.4 its just his location. generalizing things seems to be your forte doesnt it? infact my water comes with 0,0,10 readings & pH of 7.2. are u gonna contradict this as well? quit making a laughing stock of ur self.


OP: 8.4 IS extermely high. if you wanna drop it down, add some peat moss to your filter. also, like Bball asked: as u running shells or dead corals in that tank?


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm dumb? haha its great to take advise from someone who attacks people right?
Ever heard of deionized- R/O water Revo? who says you have to always add your tap water to your tank? Fish will do much better in a pH of around 7
Try to find any freshwater river/lake etc or even a respectable pet store whos water is even has a pH of 8. You wont find one unless there are african cichlids in it.
Ask anyone else on this site and they will tell you a pH of 8.4 is HIGH!!
listen to us Gonzo, we know what we are talking about.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

sorry that your tap water is apperently "perfect" but my point being tap water here runs high and people dont have any trouble keeping fish in it even our shows tanks run high that have had fish for years and years.


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> Most fish will only get used to this if they are acclimated for a long while


Really revo. he never said its not possible so why are u ranting?

and why are u sorry that our water conditions are "Apparently" "perfect"? some of us are just plain ol lucky!


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

am gonna say find a way to lower ur pH level by any natural means and avoid adding chemical buffers to the water. at 8.4 any traces of Ammonia is potentially toxic for ur fish Gonzo. my recommendation is to use Peat Moss. 

what kinda filter do u use? is it an interal submersible filter? if so, pull out the cartridge and shove some peat moss into it and hook the power head back up and ur good to go. if its a HOB like what most of us use, wrap some peat moss in a piece of panty hose and dangle it in the box.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

My tap water isnt perfect. I use R/O water.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Revolution1221 and Tallonebball, you are both acting childish much to the detriment of those seeking answers. I will have you know that I have never had water under 8.2. My well water was 8.4 and my tap water in the city is now 8.0 and 8.2 in the tank.
Neons don't do well in that high of a pH? Tell that to everyone that raises them, including myself, which has had ZERO deaths, in Lincoln Nebraska 

MGonzo85, a good pH is a stable pH. You should not mess with it unless you are trying to breed fish that would otherwise not breed in the pH your tank has. I do not disagree with what people are saying in reviewing carefully what decoration you have in your tank.

Test strips are notoriously inaccurate. As opposed to what others told you, I do not consider it a WASTE to invest in a good water test kit. You should buy a liquid test kit and the API Freshwater Master Test Kit has everything you need for basics: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, high and low range pH tests. I maintain a good one on hand at all times just in case. They have a shelf life of 5 years and will come in very handy if you run into trouble and are trying to figure out what is going on.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

My tap water used to be 6.4 and now it is 7.2. People can have a wide range of tap water conditions but that does not mean it is good for fish.

To the OP:
Test your tap water after it has sit out for a half hour. The pH can change from the time it comes out of the tap to a few minutes later. If it is that high then you need to mix your tap water with other types of water, or switch types of water alltogether. You can buy RO water at many grocery stores. If it is a small tank this is usually a viable option. A larger tank will get expensive though. For larger tanks, you can buy a reverse osmosis system for around $100. This will filter your water to about as pure as someone can make in their home. The water usually has a slightly acidic to neutral pH and is VERY soft. You will have to either mix this with your tap water or buy minerals to add to the water. I suggest you just mix in tap water. You will only need to dechlorinate the tap water you mix in. Peatmoss in your filter or driftwood in your tank will also help lower the pH.

To Revolution1221: Please be respectful. Tallonebball was trying to help. To call someone dumb is just rude. As I look through your previous posts, I notice a lot of partially correct answers you give. Tallonebball rarely has these. He only really comments when he knows the answer. Also, dont get mad just because somebody corrects you. Its OK to make mistakes. Its also OK to defend yourself, but do it in an intelligent and respectful way. When you say,


> dude your dumb tap water ph is 8-8.4 go get yours tested unless you have well water which is usually neutral at 7 i test atleast 10 peoples water a day and trust me 7.2 is not normal


 what I see is: 
1. Attacking insult makes me not want to listen to this guy
2a. This guy is dumb himself. He cannot capitalize.
2b. He does not know the difference between "your" and "you're"
2c. He does not know how to punctuate.
3. Well water is usually hard and acidic.
4. He does not understand that he probably tests the water of people from only in his city, thus the water would be around the same pH. 
5. Who the hell is this guy anyway? He joined last month and has only 51 posts. Why would I listen to him over someone who has 851 posts and has been here a year?


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

bmlbytes said:


> My tap water used to be 6.4 and now it is 7.2. People can have a wide range of tap water conditions but that does not mean it is good for fish.


True, but it doesn't mean it must be bad either. I am a true believer of "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it". If all the fish in the pet shops around your city, which are treated to the same tap water your tank is, are doing fine, then you're going to cause yourself more trouble trying to "fix" things.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

That is true. You will do more damage to your fish trying to constantly change the pH than you will having a bad pH. However, tetras in really basic water, will have a short life and will potentially have illness issues.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Basic meaning untreated tap water? I'll monitor my neon tetra, I've had no issues so far but it is too early to tell regarding their lifespan. They live around 5-6 years, right?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

fishbone said:


> Basic meaning untreated tap water? I'll monitor my neon tetra, I've had no issues so far but it is too early to tell regarding their lifespan. They live around 5-6 years, right?


they can live up to 10 years but im assuming that is rare i know someone who had them for 8 years running at over 8 on the ph scale what i have noticed tho is that even with high ph neons tend to do just fine when the tank has been established for a very long time even when someones tank is running zero nitrites and ammonia if its a fairly new tank they still have some dead neons if there is high ph


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

basic meaning not acid, high pH. My aunt in Chicago was waiting for her son's neons to die so she could break down the tank, they lived for many years. Fish can surprise you. But soft water is optimal and I never heard of successful neon's breeding in high pH water. But I've heard of happy neons in pH 4.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

fishbone said:


> Basic meaning untreated tap water? I'll monitor my neon tetra, I've had no issues so far but it is too early to tell regarding their lifespan. They live around 5-6 years, right?



Less than 7 is acidic
7 is neutral
Greater than 7 is basic / alkaline

And I'm not saying that they can not live a long time in high pH, I am saying statistically they will live shorter lives than in the water they are native to.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Fish bone:
Please point out how I was disrespectful.
All I asked was what is the pH of his tap water and if he has anything in his tank that may be raising his pH. I not once told him to constantly change his pH. 
If his tap water has a low pH and there is something in his tank raising the pH then he needs to get rid of that stuff. 
But I guess im the one getting called dumb and being disrespectful.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Yes testing the PH of the tap is very important. It should not change very much between the tap and the tank. If it does then their is something in the tank effecting the PH. I dissagree greatly with having tests done at petsmart. Get your own liquid test kit. Don't take the advice of people who are trying to get you to buy stuff. 

I have well water and trust me well water does not come out at almost neutral. Well water is not generalized like that. It depends entirely where it is coming from. Things like limestone aquifers can make water very basic. Like wise well water can be very soft. Around here you rarely see well water below neutral. Mine comes out at 7.6 pH. Across my town alone well water can vary from 6.5-8.5pH. I know other places within 15min where no well measures below 7.5 and above 8.5 is not uncommon.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

emc7 and bmlbytes, thanks for the clarification, I am aware of what basic means but did not realize the word was used in that context


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

i know people at petsmart who aren't just trying to sell you something its not like they get commission a lot of the people i know will refuse to sell you something unless your water perameters are in check


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Unfortunately they are rare. Most people at petsmart and petco could not possibly care less. Very few of their sales people are truly dedicated and care about the well-being of the stock they sell.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

fishbone said:


> Unfortunately they are rare. Most people at petsmart and petco could not possibly care less. Very few of their sales people are truly dedicated and care about the well-being of the stock they sell.


it is that way at petco around here but not at petsmart like 4 of the small animal people there will spend over an hour just talking and helping wether or not your there to buy something i go to one lady there to get my birds wings clipped even when there not supposed to do it there but the manager said it was ok for her to do it for us. and the manager himself helped me through a lot of stuff when i was first starting up one of my new tanks and having problems.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

You are lucky then.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Theres a smart kid in my fish club who works in PetSmart. He gives good advice, but their signs are all wrong (they give max sizes way too small) and they stock lots of "monster fish" and hardly any decent small fish. Their inventory is decided by "corporate" and the local managers don't get to pick their fish. They have a great vet in mine and give space to humane societies for pet adoptions, but the fish come from a distribution center in Illinois and they aren't allowed to buy locally bred fish. Petland sells puppies and kittens so my most humane-minded friends won't go there, but they are locally-owned franchises and there is one near me that has an amazing variety of fish that will actually fit in a common-sized tank.

I have to agree with the advice to get a second opinion on any advice given by someone with an interest in selling you something. Some people are in the business because they love fish and will always give great advice, some people will try to profit, and a lot of people just don't know as much as they think they do. 

Ask a store clerk "how many can I keep in a 10", and at least some of the time, one will tell you how many he puts in a 10 in the store. So you get answers like 50 peacock bass. He's honestly trying to answer you, but he really hasn't ever seen a full-grown fish, just the babies in the store. 

Double check advice for awhile and if you find a person at a store is always spot on, then you can start trusting that one person.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

emc7 said:


> Theres a smart kid in my fish club who works in PetSmart. He gives good advice, but their signs are all wrong (they give max sizes way too small) and they stock lots of "monster fish" and hardly any decent small fish. Their inventory is decided by "corporate" and the local managers don't get to pick their fish. They have a great vet in mine and give space to humane societies for pet adoptions, but the fish come from a distribution center in Illinois and they aren't allowed to buy locally bred fish. Petland sells puppies and kittens so my most humane-minded friends won't go there, but they are locally-owned franchises and there is one near me that has an amazing variety of fish that will actually fit in a common-sized tank.
> 
> I have to agree with the advice to get a second opinion on any advice given by someone with an interest in selling you something. Some people are in the business because they love fish and will always give great advice, some people will try to profit, and a lot of people just don't know as much as they think they do.
> 
> ...


that is true but ive realised that petsmart has just about the best guppies money can buy and they usually have them for a dollar  I think the people being semi intelligent is because of the manager he is a great help and has always cared about getting the best for everyone. talking about mislabeling fish wal-mart has no right selling fish by any means there green spotted puffers say pretty much exactly this max size 4 inches (ive seen them pushing 5 1/2) tank mates mollies platties barbs guppys "may nip fins" prefer 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons ************? lol they also keep about 20 of them in a 5 gallon tank.


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