# it's late and i noticed something strange.



## newbiefishlover (Jan 16, 2007)

okay this may sound stupid.

i went to walmart the other day. noticing they had freshwater fish, i decided spontaneously to get one or two.

i got a regular old glass bowl, some rocks, food, and since it was suggested, a dechlorinizer.

in less then a day after i had brought the tank home, the water starting getting really dirty. tonight, just a little while ago, i noticed that the fish were swimming right at the surface, and i honestly have no idea what to do.

if you need details my fish are a male swordtail, and a female guppie.
i only fed them once, this morning.


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## thebrick (Dec 20, 2006)

well first off you should set up atleast a 5 gallon with proper filtration and cycle the tank. Never buy fish spontaneously UNLESS you have proper housing ready for them. I suggest bring them back and set up a tank THEN get your fish.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Welcome to FF!

I agree with thebrick, take them back. Then come back here and we'll give you all the info you need to set up a healthy tank.  

Just to clarify, I suggest you take them back because I don't think you're going to be able to get your water conditions healthy before those fish die.

I wouldn't get the 5g though. Not much you can put in a 5g. I'm pretty sure walmart has 10g kits for about $75. You'd enjoy a 10g much more. But if you have the money to spend try to get a 29g kit. The 29g is going to be more stable than the 10g as far as water conditions go so it's more forgiving to beginner mistakes. Not to mention it's going to open up your options as far as fish you can keep.

Happy fishkeeping!


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## StarLab (Jan 14, 2007)

The staff should first inquire about a person's tank setup before selling fish.

That's just irresponsible salesmanship!

Good advice posted above.


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## bettaboy691 (Nov 25, 2006)

who ever told you it was ok to keep a guppy and swordtail in a "fish bowl" thats unheated, unfilted is a compleat pratt ( i was going to call them something else but then i remembered where i was writing). both fish you have are tropical and need atleast,in my opinion, 10 gallon tank with a heater and a filter.take the fish back, buy a bigger tank, or get a starter kit like locojay said.leave the tank running for a week and then add a few fish at first (float the bags in the tank water before) BUT before you do any of that, read the topics from this froum, search the internet and read book, please please please research what your doing, the sweet little fish bowl in the corner that requires little work if a myth, fish keeping can be hard work at times and needs to be set up properly.i would hate to know a fish has lost its life due to its owners lack of knowledge.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

bettaboy691 said:


> leave the tank running for a week and then add a few fish at first (float the bags in the tank water before)


Sorry, that is NOT good advice. There is no reason to run a tank empty for a week, and the tank needs to be cycled before any fish are put in it. I recommend the poster take the fish back, then read up on the nitrification cycle FIRST before deciding on any further purchases, then purchase a suitable tank and read up on doing a fishless cycle. Larger tanks are more stable as well, you might be happier with a 20g kit rather than a 10g kit. But nothing belongs in an unheated, unfiltered bowl IMO, and nothing should be put into an uncycled tank. To do so is to cause unnecessary health consequences and death to the fish.


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## bettaboy691 (Nov 25, 2006)

i know thats your opinion and i respect thet but i always leave new tanks for a week to let chemicals desolve naturally and make sure the filter and heater is working properly,fishless cycling isnt nessary but i know some people do, personally i have never bothered, i find adding a few small, hardy fish does the trick.i have never lost a fish due to this process and my first fish usally go on and have a healthy and happy life. i measure the water paramiters daily and take good care of all my fish, i agree with you on the fact a 20 gallon would be better but i was saying the VERY LEAST your should provide is a 10 gallon for live bearers.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

bettaboy's right the environment just isn't right. Even if you could magically get the water healthy those fish need more room, a heater and a filter.

But leaving the tank running for a week and then adding fish is incorrect, or at least incomplete. This is where we get into the nitrogen cycle.

Floating bags is a matter of opinion I guess. Some do it some don't. I personally don't float any bags in my tanks.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Cycling *with* fish isn't necessary. Its inhumane. It unnecessarily endangers their health and kills fish. Just because you can't see the damage doesn't mean there isn't damage that has been done. Even so-called hardy fish are damaged by ammonia and nitrite poisoning during the cycling process. Its not just my opinion, its scientific fact. Whether you choose to endanger fish is your choice. Advocating that others do the same, however, is not very responsible. They should be taught from the start the proper, ethical and humane way to keep fish, IMO. And when taught to do a fishless cycle and spared the unnecessary expense of buying fish just to kill them during cycling, they are more likely to stick with the hobby and not give up in frustration because their fish keep dying. Fishless cycling doesn't take any longer than cycling with fish and doesn't endanger or kill them, so why instruct them to do otherwise?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

locojay said:


> Floating bags is a matter of opinion I guess. Some do it some don't. I personally don't float any bags in my tanks.


Floating the bag IMO isn't necessary but doing a slow acclimation by adding tank water to the bag water in small amounts over a period of an hour has prevented me from losing any fish. If your tank water has different parameters than the stores, it can cause shock to the fish. And never add the bag water to the tank, always net the fish out of the bag first.


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## StarLab (Jan 14, 2007)

The nerdiest among us would suggest dripping your new fish as you would with saltwater. Basically a length of airhose with an adjustable valve at the end. 

However, this isn't so critical with freshwater. It is good advice to slowly add your tank water to the bag.

At the very least, float the bag as suggested above as the trip home has likely cooled the water a couple degrees. (Depends on your location... it's winter here  )

And also mentioned, never use anyone else's water. Pour the fish through a net and discard the water they came in. If something goes wrong, you can eliminate that factor right off the bat.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Wow, it's hard to work and keep up with here at the same time  .

Boxermom's correct, fishless cycling is the way to go.

I also use an acclimation process close to yours. The only difference is I pour tank water into a 3 gallon bucket and float the bag for a little while to adjust for temp, then I start adding tank water to the bag to take care of the different parameters. After I have the Bag about 50/50 I pull remove the bag and let the fish stay in the bucket for another 20 to 30 minutes. Then net fish and throw out the water in the bucket.

OK, I better get some work done or I won't have anymore monies for my fishies.


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## bettaboy691 (Nov 25, 2006)

boxermom: i guess i havent realy dont anything different then what ive been told by many aquarists that fish cycling is ok,i have done it with all my tansk and have lost no fish to this.with some fish like livebeares i have even bred them to produce healthy offspring.i guess its a matter of opinion weather to cycle with or without fish.running the tank for a week beforehand isnt a bad thing to do, it gives you time to modify the tank if nessary and tests your heaters/filters/etc to make sure they are working fine.floating the bag in the tank is something i have always done, i gradually add bits of tank water to the bag and then net the fish out at the end.i have never know any different as my dad use to do this and hes the one who taught me mostly what i know (he kept fish years back but kept notes, books, etc and gives me advice, granted his methods arnt always modern fish keeping ways but have never faild me.)
please note i would never put a fishes life in danger if i thought it would speed up the cycling time or whatever, isnt that the whole point of fish keeping to look at wonderful, beautiful fish, how can you if they are all dead?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

locojay, that's close to what I do with larger or more sensitive fish. Its harder to bag acclimate a 5" puffer so I do it in a bucket. Small fish like minnows I just do in the bag itself. Its also trickier with puffers to get them into the tank since they should never be removed from the water, so as much of the tank/bag water as possible needs to be poured out (I usually scoop them up into a disposable cup) so as little tank/bag water goes into the tank itself as possible.


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

Here newbiefishlover, a couple sites to help you understand what the heck these guys are talking about, LOL
First you need to understand what the Nitrogen Cycle is... 
http://www.fishaholics.org/articles.php?ArtId=12

understanding Water Chemistry and parameters......
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

There is 2 ways of getting your tank to cycle, with fish & without fish, either way you need a source of ammonia....
http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishlesscycling.html
http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishcycling.html

If you decide to go with fish to cycle, get hardy fish, like mollys, but go cheap, because they may not make it threw the cycle.
Also getting some live plants will help kick start the cycle.


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

newbiefishlover, read the pm I sent


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

welcome to FF. You should have a 5 or 10 gal to start. Bowls are unhealthy, and require cleaned every other day or so. You should also let the dechlorinizer sit in the water for about 12-24 hours. But your new, and everyone makes mistakes, EVERYONE.


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

And like boxermom said, the nitrogen cycle has to complete. OH, and a fishless cycle is the best, most fish cant go through the cycle, they say barbs can, but i dont really think they can that great.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

My first tank I had and before I had internet I cycled with one platy and one neon tetra. I was horrified when I read about the nitrogen cycle!
The same platy cycled 3 other tanks for me and she lived til she was over 2 years old. I had the neon for a couple of years also.
It took me until about a year ago to find out about fishless cycling. I have used it but I found that there are still a few days the tank mini cycles when you add the first fish. I cycled my 20 gal tank with 4 black skirt tetras. They have been with me now for 4 complete years. They spawn regularly. 
Now when I cycle tanks I do the whole daily water change thing as well as use chemicals to bring the ammonia and nitrites into non toxic states. I use old gravel and old filter media. I don't see much difference between the different processes except the cycle goes faster using old media and gravel. I watch my fish carefully for signs of distress. I spend too much time on my fish!!
I now have 8 tanks running.


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## fraser27 (Jan 14, 2007)

'I spend too much time on my fish!!' well if thats wat u like, its watever floats ya boat m8!


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

yea, i really love fish. You dont have to start out huge, if I were you, id save up for a 10 gal, filter and everything. It should only cost around 60-80 dollars, including some cheap decor and plants, real or fake. Maybe even gravel if you get cheap enough filter and air pump. Then save up about 20 more dollars, and buy a few test kits.


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

List of supplies:

Tank- 10 gal for $10
Filter- Cheap one for about $10
Air Pump- Cheap one for $6
Food- $2-$6
Dechlorinator- $4-$8
Heater- Good one needed: about $8-$15
Gravel- 2 larger bags- $6-$8
Decor- ??? However much, depending on what you get. Between $6-$20
Plants- Real or fake: depends on plant. Id say between $2-$20 for all plants

Total for everything needed for beginning: Between $54 and $103

For 10 gal, not 55 gal, lol


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

Then set it all up, and let it cycle. Then, before adding fish, go out and buy some test kits to test ammonia level, when ammonia is zero, wait abo;ut 48 hours, then you can add around 6-8 fish, all with max size of no bigger than 2 inches.


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

Note* cycle can take between a week and a month for a 10 gal. Took my community 10 gal about 2 weeks, my 10 gal aggro tank 2 1/2 weeks, and my 20 gal took about 3 1/2 or 4 weeks, close to a month. Remember, after ammonia=0, wait 36-48 hours before adding fish.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2007)

You just posted four times in a row...you could of easily just made that one post.


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

i know, im sorry


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