# crabs, crayfish, hermits, frogs & turtles



## tomlin2000 (Nov 25, 2008)

Ever since I kept a couple of red fire crabs a couple of years ago in my indoor pond room I was hooked. Now I've updated the pond for amphibians so I'm currently thinking about getting more crabs, hermit crabs, crayfish and blue lobsters, turtles, frogs and etc. The setup is as follows:

* The pond room is 9'x12' and 12' high and fully enclosed with 7 double pane sliding windows, 9 skylights and a 4 panelled sliding glass pocket door to the adjacent living room.
* The pond is 6x8 oval shaped and 3' deep in the middle of the pond room which is one step down from the living room.
* The island/fountain is 3'x3' in the middle of the pond and is about 8" above water.
* There is a circular walkway separating the pond from two flower beds on either side of the room.

This is kind of hard to explain so I need to find a way to take pictures and post them. What camera do you guys recommand and where can I get a good deal? Costco, Fry's Electronics or on the web??? I need a good one.

I currently keep 5 kois in the pond, a mud turtle (3") and I just bought home today 4 red crabs about 1.5" wide carpace (including the legs is about 3.5" wide) at $10 each (chile crabs? red fire crabs?). Why is it so hard to find info on fresh water crabs? All I can get on google is fiddler and red claw crabs. Due to space and design limitation I was unable to impliment a beach from the pond to either the walkway or the island so I have placed some driftwood braches so that amphibians can climb up the branches to the island which is stocked with potted indoor plants.

Also, I wanted to try some hermits in the flower beds. BTW I've dart frogs and red-eyed tree frogs in the flower beds and cameleons and day gecko in the trees. My question is... if the hermit where to fall into the water which is 3' deep, can they climb up form the island base which is surrounded by a vertical reef and onto the drift wood branches and up to the island? The walkway separating the pond from the flower beds creats a 4" ledge from the water surface.... so would the hermits know not to jump from the ledge? My camileons and day geckos know not to jump in because they don't like the water. Would the crayfish be a threat to the hermits? Are the blue lobsters smaller than the regular red ones? Because I also want some crayfishes in the pond. Can I keep fiddler crabs in fresh water long term? If not, can I suppliment some saltwater dishes/pools on the island? Could they find the salt water or is it just a waist of time? Shall I get larger hermits just in case they fall into the koi pond? Shall I remove the larger kois? Can kois adjust to more brakish water if I decide to go that route? Helllllp!!! :fun:


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

I for one would like to see pics of your set-up, it sounds awesome.
Wanna see my dad's pond? It's an outdoors one though. 6K gallons or so. More koi than we can count. Waist-deep at the deepest level.
http://picasaweb.google.com/fishbon3/HomePond
If temps dip to 60 degrees, I'll venture a guess and say that just about the only critter you could get is crayfish, if you are positive they won't go after your koi. They are fairly aggressive scavengers, they might injure your fish. If not crayfish, turtles would be a good addition, but I would not mix the two. Some have reported disappearing crayfish. It is suspected they eat each other after a moult when they are most vulnerable, or the fish get to them. They will also overturn submerged pots and tear up your aquatic plants. However, I'm reading up some info on blue crayfish and it appears they also need 70*F 

Fiddlers or red claw crabs are a definite no go. The pond is too cold for them, they need easy access to land, they may be harassed by curious koi and they also need brackish water, not freshwater. The only way I could see this work is if you set-up a small sand beach with a pool of brackishwater and an area for them to EASILY get in and out of the rest of your pond. That little beach would have to be heated.

I go by the rule of thumb that these little critters are like children. If there is something they are not supposed to do, they WILL do it. If there is something they are supposed to avoid, they WON'T.


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## tomlin2000 (Nov 25, 2008)

thanks for the input, I think the fiddlers are out because of temperature as low as 60 and they are from the sub-tropics (Hong Kong). The turtle I'm keeping is a three striped mud tutle and I picked the smallest one from the reptile store. It doesn't seem to be aggressive at all. Before I get more crayfish, I'm going to sink more driftwood in the bottom so they have places to hide. Right now the bottom is bare cement with a layer of topcoat black waterprove paint.

Even if I provide some dishes of brackish water I not sure the hermits will find it. May be I just need to experiment a little and observe them closely. BTW there are no plants of pots in the pond. I've a tall fountain in the middle of the island surrounded by 8 small pots. The flower beds have 4 huge pots in the corner with indoor trees for the cameleons and the gecko. I will do some more research on the crayfish and share them with you. I just got 4 red crabs and they are doing fine. The kois have been temperary move to the outside pond because I was maintaining the indoor pond and haven't move them back yet. I think I might keep the bigger kois outside so I don't have to worry about the crayfish of crabs becoming their next meal. lol

I have thought about getting an outdoor koi pond like your Dad's but it just takes up too much room and a ton of work to maintain for an urbanite. The pond I have out side is more like a big fountain than a pond. I like the planting and the natural setting of Dad's outdoor pond. Because my indoor pond is in a limited retangular space I've decided to make it more formal in both the shape and the materials used. The form is concrete, the edging, the island and the walkway is granite, the walls is outdoor stucco and the windows and doors are vinyl. The whole room and the pond is very semetrical in design.


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## micstarz (Oct 22, 2005)

That is sweet! If you are planning to let it be cool, you should make a separate refugium for axolotls.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

One other thing to keep in mind with hermits is that they need relative humidity to be at least 75%. Otherwise, their gills slowly dry up and start suffocating. It's a slow and painful death.


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## Plecostomus (Jul 31, 2006)

For hermit crabs, you are talking about land hermit crabs right? The worker at my local fish store told me hermit crabs have "an IQ about the same as a banana." So if a land hermit crab fell into 3 feet deep of water, it would drown for sure. Unless you were talking about aquatic hermit crabs.


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## micstarz (Oct 22, 2005)

Your "worker at the local fish store" could be a blatant idiot that calls clownfish nemo


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

My grandfather has a koi pond in his backyard it's about 4.5' deep and one year he invested in a turtle. It started munching on all his plants and eventually took off, hahahah.


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## Plecostomus (Jul 31, 2006)

I don't think he was an idiot. I kept land hermit crabs, and they were fun to watch, but they didn't seem very smart.:lol:


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## tomlin2000 (Nov 25, 2008)

I've decided to move the kois to the outside pond and keep gold fish in the indoor pond because I think the bigger kois will end up eat my crabs and crayfish when they are in a volunerable state. Now I am looking for aquatic friendly frogs. I saw some fire belly toads at the LFS but it was too dark and the owner said some times they have lighter green fire bellies... so that's what I'm waiting for. Also I'm looking for blue lobsters and need to make sure they don't get too big and intimidating for the other inhabitants.


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