# New fantail goldfish



## cxgcxg (Feb 17, 2007)

I'd be grateful for any advice:

We've just bought two fantails and introduced them to a smallish tank. The shop gave us water treatment and told us to empty about 20% of the water once a week and replace with treated water. We were told that a filter wasn't a necessity.

This morning the fish look ok, but they haven't had much of the food flakes we gave them and they are spending lots of time just 'blowing bubbles' on surface of the water. They may well be grazing on build up at the top of the tank but as I'm sure youi've deduced by now, I'm quite new to this! I'm worried that they are going to get sick and die.

What might I do to help them settle in and maintain their health?

Thanks so much for any help.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2007)

firstly how smallish is the tank. and secondly the place lied, a filter IS necessary because goldfish are waste producing machines. blowing bubbles at the top can be a sign of lack of oxygen... there needs to be some way for oxygen to saturate the water. this can be done with the filter, or an air pump.


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## AquaGirl (Feb 17, 2007)

I think you should at least have a 30 gallon aquarium for the 2 fantails. They can grow to 10 inches long.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Hello and welcome to fishforums. 

Yes a filter is needed. It definitely sounds like there's a lack of oxygen in the tank. You need to get some surface agitation to fix the problem. As said above a filter will take care of this.

I hate to sound negative but those goldfish are in an unhealthy environment. I would recommend taking them back to the store you bought them from. From your post it sounds like you'd be better off with a betta and a filter. You could still have a very nice tank, but the fish you have will outgrow your tank.

How many gallons is the tank you have?

Read up on the nitrogen cycle. It will save you and your fish some headache.

Good luch with your new tank. Feel free to keep asking any questions that come to mind. ;-)


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## cxgcxg (Feb 17, 2007)

Thanks for the advice. I was really hoping that a filter wasn't going to be needed but it would seem that this is not the case. It's worrying to hear that they may be lacking oxygen.

I would guess that the size of the tank (it's actually a large glass vase) is no more than two gallons, although the two fish at their current size seem to have plenty of room to move.

As an aside, are there any coldwater fish that will be ok in a tank without a filter? Also, I always thought that fish could only grow as big as their tank allowed i.e. they would grow, but not grow to their full potential size if they didn't have the space to do so?

Thanks :fish:


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## AquaGirl (Feb 17, 2007)

Having fish in a tank too small for them will stunt their growth and will deform them. I think all fish should have a filter but you might want to look for red white minnows. They are hardy, small, and breed a lot.


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## Willow (Mar 20, 2005)

Although they currently have enough room to move around, that really isn't the main problem. The main problem is waste concentration in the water, and 2 gallons are not enough to dilute all of the waste that 2 fantails will make in even a couple of hours. If you did 100% water changes twice a day, that might keep the water parameters at OK levels, but it would also stress the fish, not to mention it would be a real pain. 

If you want to keep 2 fantails, you'll need at LEAST a 20 gallon tank, although a 29 gallon would be best, considering their adult size. A filter is an absolute necessity for goldfish of any size or type, but you can usually get by without a heater. 

It is a myth that fish only grow to the size of their enclosure and still remain healthy. They might stop growing, but this usually results in death. A gruesome, stunted, deformed death, I might add. In most cases, fish kept in a too-small enclosure will die of bad water quality before stunting becomes an issue. 

The only fish that can get by without a filter are Bettas. I personally feel that they SHOULD have a filter, but they can survive without one. No other fish will do well at all without some kind of filtration. Bettas DO need heaters (unless your house is quite warm), they just aren't happy or healthy in temps less than 75 degrees.

I'd recommend getting a 29 gallon aquarium for your fishies. Wal-Mart sells a 29g set-up for a reasonable price, with a filter and everything included. It's a lot of fun to set up a decent sized aquarium----you can really go wild with the decorations. If you don't want to go that route, you should take the goldies back to the store, get a heater and a Betta. Alternatively, you could get a filter and 2 White Cloud minnows---no more than that in 2 gallons.

Sorry to say, if you choose to keep the goldies in the 2 gallon, they won't live long. It's a shame that the stores tell people such tripe, most goldfish don't live to their full potential---they can live at least 10 years in good conditions......usually longer.


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## cxgcxg (Feb 17, 2007)

Ok, thanks for all taking the time to answer. I've learnt a lot today.

As for the tank, 29 gallons is HUGE and I'm not sure that I've got the space for a tank of that size. I'll need to give this some thought.

One question, if we decide to buy a bigger tank then would I need to go through the 3-4 weeks of tank and filter preparation before being able to introduce them? I'm not sure what to do with them in that time if I did. I've grown quite fond of them already!

Thanks once again.


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## Willow (Mar 20, 2005)

A 29 gallon aquarium is 30" long x 12" wide x 18" high. A 20 gallon (high) is 24" long x 12" wide x 16" high. A 20g should do for a few years, but since a 29g isn't too much bigger, you may want to go with it in the first place. I wouldn't get anything smaller than a 20g for 2 fantail goldies. I can fit a 20g on my end table, 2 feet (or 2 1/2 feet, for the 29g) by 1 foot isn't really hard to find a place for. Not like a 55 gallon (4 feet long)!

It is best to cycle a new tank before you add the fish, yes. You can buy a product called "Bio-Spira" that will instantly cycle your tank, and you wouldn't have to wait at all. Do NOT let the pet store sell you any other product, Bio-Spira is the only one that will do an instant cycle. It would be about $20.00 for the amount you'd need. If you get a test kit and keep a really close eye on the water parameters, you can cycle the tank with the fish in it. The process would take longer because you'd have to do a partial water change every time the ammonia spiked, but it can be done. Read up on cycling with fish for more info.


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## AquaGirl (Feb 17, 2007)

It seems really big at first but once you add fish and decor, it seems to shrink.


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## cxgcxg (Feb 17, 2007)

Thanks again... maybe a 29 gallon is the way to go. Presumably I'd need two plug sockets for a heater and a filter? And would there need to be anything that takes up space (no matter how small) outside of the tank for a fully functioning aquarium of this size?


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## Willow (Mar 20, 2005)

Um....no, I don't think so. Some people like to have an air pump for a bubbler, but you don't NEED one, the filter should do enough aerating. If you want a bubbler, they sell little hang-on shelves for the pump, so it's not just sitting somewhere. The hang-on-back filter does stick out a few inches from the back of the tank, unless you spring for the Eclipse hood. Goldfish don't need a heater unless your room temp bounces up and down (temp needs to be consistent). Don't bother with an undergravel filter, they don't do much.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

I kept goldfish for a while with no heater. If you get the 29g I would set it up and put a thermometer on it so you can monitor the temp. 29g is a decent size body of water so the temp shouldn't swing too much with your room. I doubt that you'll need a heater. If so then you'll need more than two electrical sockets. You'll need one for your light too.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

One more thing for you to consider. You can "move" bacteria from one tank to another... if one of your friends/family has an established tank with a filter running on it... take their old filter cartridge and place it into your filter. Move it in a ziplock bag with some tank water in it... and bammo - you've got a pretty good culture of bacteria in your brand new tank. If you can't get the cartridge for some reason, ask for some gravel from the system (has bacteria too)


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## cxgcxg (Feb 17, 2007)

*sorry, more questions!*

Thank you.

Can goldfish live in a tropical tank? If I'm going to buy a big tank then I'd like to make it a tropical tank and start with the goldfish, introducing more tropical fish over time.

What would be the total number of fish limit to a 29g tank?

Also, they're getting white marks on their head. Is this a bad sign? We've been changing their water daily and they seem to be happier.


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## freedevil (Feb 4, 2007)

Yeah goldfish can live in tropical tanks.


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## cxgcxg (Feb 17, 2007)

Things seem quite positive and I just hope that my fish don't die when moved to the new tank because then we've bought it for nothing at a time when money is really tight! Fingers crossed...

Can/should fantails be mixed with a wide variety of other fish (in the tank witha tropical setup)?


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Don't bother with the heater unless you keep your house freezing cold. Goldies like the water cold 68-74 so the ambient temp in the room should keep it nice for them. If your tank is dropping below 65f then you may need a heater, but generally speaking Goldies don't need a them. They do however need a good filter. So take what you save on a heater and buy a better filter. And to answer your last question, take the fish back for now until you can house them in a larger tank, rather then having them in a small temp tank.

Welcome to FF.

Cheers.

btw, are the white marks dots or are they small cottony patches? if it's white it's usually either fungus or Ich, both of which are easy to treat, and both are indicitive to poor water quality. I'm not saying your not diligent or not a good fish keeper, just that those 2 fish will not do well in that tank. As mentioned before they will polute that water in a cpl hours after a water change. again, best to return them for now. And yes they have been kept tropical, but really do prefer colder temps, so I would keep your trops and your goldies in seperate tanks.


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## AquaGirl (Feb 17, 2007)

Goldfishes shouldn't be kept with tropical fishes. They are big waste producers and get pretty big. You should only keep your 2 fantails in there. The white marks are normal. Male goldfishes have them in summer.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

AquaGirl said:


> The white marks are normal. Male goldfishes have them in summer.


there ya go....  however if the white marks get larger or spread across the body then refer to my last post. Thanks for the tip Aquagirl


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## Willow (Mar 20, 2005)

Although goldies can be kept at tropical temps, as AquaGirl said, they should not be kept with tropical fish. Goldfish are big bullies and will pick on smaller fish, and if you get a big aggressive tropical, it will pick on the goldies. Best to keep them separate. The rule of thumb with goldfish is 15 gallons for the first fish and 10 gallons for each additional fish, so, with 2 goldfish in a 29g, you'd be almost at the limit. If you get a larger tank, you could look into having a Plecostomus, but it would be overstocked with 2 goldies and a Pleco in a 29g.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Willow said:


> Although goldies can be kept at tropical temps, as AquaGirl said, they should not be kept with tropical fish. Goldfish are big bullies and will pick on smaller fish, and if you get a big aggressive tropical, it will pick on the goldies. Best to keep them separate. The rule of thumb with goldfish is 15 gallons for the first fish and 10 gallons for each additional fish, so, with 2 goldfish in a 29g, you'd be almost at the limit. If you get a larger tank, you could look into having a Plecostomus, but it would be overstocked with 2 goldies and a Pleco in a 29g.


plecs also prefer warmer temps in the high 70s to high 80s


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