# China murders 50000 dogs....



## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

I can't even express how much this angers me........first of all, dogs are not the ONLY reservoir for rabies, secondly why be so brutal?? Thirdly, I will do my best to pay attention to the products and services I use so that I can avoid China products as much as possible. It makes me fuming mad and sick to my stomach!!!!!!



http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...i/20060801000009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

SHANGHAI, China (Aug. 2) - China slaughtered 50,000 dogs in a government-ordered crackdown after three people died of rabies, sparking unusually pointed criticism in state media Tuesday and an outcry from animal rights activists. 

Health experts said the brutal policy pointed to deep weaknesses in the health care infrastructure in China, where only 3 percent of dogs are vaccinated against rabies and more than 2,000 people die of the disease each year. 

The five-day slaughter in Mouding county in Yunnan province in southwestern China ended Sunday and spared only military guard dogs and police canine units, state media reported. 

Dogs being walked were seized from their owners and beaten to death on the spot, the Shanghai Daily newspaper reported. Led by the county police chief, killing teams entered villages at night creating noise to get dogs barking, then beat the animals to death, the reports said. 

Owners were offered 63 cents per animal to kill their own dogs before the teams were sent in, they said. 

The killings were widely discussed on the Internet, with both legal scholars and animal rights activists criticizing them as crude and cold-blooded. The World Health Organization said more emphasis needed to be placed on rabies prevention. 

The official newspaper Legal Daily blasted the killings as an "extraordinarily crude, cold-blooded and lazy way for the government to deal with epidemic disease." 

"Wiping out the dogs shows these government officials didn't do their jobs right in protecting people from rabies in the first place," the newspaper, published by the central government's Politics and Law Committee, said in an editorial in its online edition. 

In an editorial, the official Xinhua News Agency said the killings wouldn't have been necessary if the local government had been more attentive, but called the slaughter "the only way out of a bad situation." 

"If they'd discovered this earlier, they could have vaccinated the dogs and ... controlled the outbreak," the editorial said. 

The killings prompted calls for a boycott of Chinese products from the activist group People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals. 

"We are urging everyone to actively boycott - not a word we use lightly - anything from China given the bludgeoning killing of thousands of dogs," PETA President Ingrid Newkirk said. 

She said the group had canceled all orders of merchandise it sells that are made in China. Will Wright, at PETA's European office in London, said the orders were worth about $300,000. 

"We believe other groups will join us in expressing outrage over the blatant cruelty to animals the world is witnessing," Wright said. 

Mouding County officials defended the slaughter in a region where about 360 of the 200,000 residents suffered dog bites this year, with three people reportedly dying of rabies, including a 4-year-old girl. 

"With the aim to keep this horrible disease from people, we decided to kill the dogs," Li Haibo, a spokesman for the county government, was quoted as saying by Xinhua. 

Calls to county government offices went unanswered Tuesday. Located in mountains about 1,240 miles southwest of Shanghai, Mouding is famed for its Buddhist shrines. 

Unlike in the West, where dogs have long been cherished as companions or helpmates, dogs have rarely had an easy time in China. Dog meat is eaten throughout the country, revered as a tonic in winter and a restorer of virility in men. 

Following the communist seizure of power in 1949, dog ownership was condemned as a bourgeois affectation and canines were hunted as pests. Attitudes have softened in recent years, although urban Chinese are still subject to strict rules on the size of their pets and must pay steep registration fees. 

About 70 percent of rural households now keep dogs, according to the Chinese Center of Disease Control and Prevention, and increased rates of dog ownership have been tied to a surge in the number of rabies cases in recent years. It said there were 2,651 reported deaths from the disease in 2004, the last year for which data was available. 

Access to rabies treatment is also highly limited, especially in the countryside, said Dr. Francette Dusan, a World Health Organization expert. 

Effective rabies control requires coordinated efforts between human health, animal health and municipal agencies and authorities, Dusan said. 

"This has not been pursued adequately to date in China, with most control efforts consisting of purely reactive dog culls," she said.


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## racialfish (Jul 30, 2006)

You have to remember it's China. They can do a lot more over there, and people don't think the same.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Oh yes, this is the same country that leaves baby girls laying in ditches and gutters...... I know. I'm considering the source but it still infuriates me.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2006)

Geez thats so sad and cruel. What idiots!


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## mr.dark-saint (Aug 16, 2005)

How many dogs does the "humane" society put down every year in the US? As for P.E.T.A. they kill off animals too. Hypocites.

I thought this is about animals and not girl babies in ditches?


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## angelfishamy (Jul 22, 2006)

PETA does kill off animals they say it's better for them to be put to sleep then go to abusive homes.As I see it the world will never be safe humans kill humans animals kill animals and vice versa.It is sad that they blame the dogs but China is full of people living in ignorance and communism they live in poverty and aren't taught the same values as more "civilized" cultures.They grow up learning ancient ways and taking $.50 jobs.Every culture has it's stupidity.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Well they also eat them as meals. So why would they treat them any different than the cows in europe during the mad cow scare?


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

mr.dark-saint said:


> How many dogs does the "humane" society put down every year in the US? As for P.E.T.A. they kill off animals too. Hypocites.
> 
> I thought this is about animals and not girl babies in ditches?


It is, you must not have read racialfish's comment.......that was my reply to him.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

mr.dark-saint said:


> How many dogs does the "humane" society put down every year in the US? As for P.E.T.A. they kill off animals too. Hypocites.
> 
> I thought this is about animals and not girl babies in ditches?


Oh, and the way the humane society is SUPPOSED to put them down is humane.........clubbing them to death in the street ISN'T. (notice I said SUPPOSED.....I had to rotate through a humane society.....I saw things I didn't like there too.)


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

fish_doc said:


> Well they also eat them as meals. So why would they treat them any different than the cows in europe during the mad cow scare?


That's a very good point..... but, for the people keeping them as companions/pets/beloved family members, I can't imagine the pain they felt watching their pet be clubbed to death in the street. They'd have had to rip my dog from my cold lifeless hands before I'd let them take him.


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## robyn (May 29, 2006)

i think it is disgusting 2 beat any living thing 2 death under any circumstance!!!! ANd 2 think they had the audacity 2 offer ppl money 2 kill their own dogs!!!! at least the humane society tries to make it less painful 4 the animals. 

if sum1 tried 2 kill my dog, i would kill them 1st. my dog is like a child 2 me.

as far as the dog eating thing is, it is cultural. im not saying i think eating dogs is right, but ppl hav different beliefs and in other cultures, eating a pig or a cow may be strange, like eating dogs is 2 us.

And i think that even if they wanted 2 kill all those dogs, however silly the reason may b, there r beter ways 2 do it than 2 beat them 2 death!!!!!


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## AshleytheGreat (Jul 24, 2005)

Baby_Baby said:
 

> If only we could do that with all the petifiles here in the U.S.
> *sighs*


Oh Im sure they get a lot more hell in jail, how many inmates in there do you think HAVENT been taken advantage of when they were little.



China China China, come on this is the same place where they allow their kids to just do their business in the street.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

> Dogs being walked were seized from their owners and beaten to death on the spot, the Shanghai Daily newspaper reported. Led by the county police chief, killing teams entered villages at night creating noise to get dogs barking, then beat the animals to death, the reports said.


That alone shows that their actions were irrational. I mean these dogs that are being walked i would assume are domesticated. Even if that isnt the case, they see it more rational to kill 50,000 dogs than to vaccinate 50,000 dogs. I mean im not an extremist when it comes to animals but, dont you think it makes a little more sense to vaccinate them rather than beating them to death? Even if they dont care the slightest bit about the welfare of the animals, vacciantion requires less manual labor than BEATING fifty THOUSAND animal to death.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

In China they also treat their people with the same lack of respect. That is why people literally beg to be slave labor over there. Many factories offer room and board in return they get employment. It is like prision. The doors are locked at night and they are let out during holidays to go visit their families. 

During major construction projects even since the great wall the remains of workers that die are just added right into the foundation of the buildings, dams, and roads. 

Any life, including humans have no value. Everything is for the greater good of the "community"


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Then what is the point of the "community" if it does no good for the people? Ill never understand those commies!


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

I think "community" is actually a code name for whoever is the leader of China at the time. LOL


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## AshleytheGreat (Jul 24, 2005)

harif87 said:


> Even if they dont care the slightest bit about the welfare of the animals, vacciantion requires less manual labor than BEATING fifty THOUSAND animal to death.



hehe good point! But what if the dogs bite the humans then more rabies?


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## robyn (May 29, 2006)

> I think "community" is actually a code name for whoever is the leader of China at the time. LOL


i dont really know much about china's politics, but from what i understand they still partially communist. communism works in theory, but in practise it usually goes hay-wire. It doesnt benefit the ppl, only the person in power at the time.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

robyn said:


> i dont really know much about china's politics, but from what i understand they still partially communist. communism works in theory, but in practise it usually goes hay-wire. It doesnt benefit the ppl, only the person in power at the time.


Hence the codeword "community"


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

AshleytheGreat said:


> hehe good point! But what if the dogs bite the humans then more rabies?


I think harif meant to vaccinate the dogs that do not have rabies......Rabid animals aren't that hard to distinguish from non rabid. And a vaccine does nothing once the animal is already infected. A slow death from rabies is pure torture, but killing an animal that is not infected is just wrong.

They also said that what, 2% of dogs are vaccinated?? What the hell do they expect???


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Chinese culture is one of the worst I know. The way they've been brought up leads to their way of life.
It's a shame because some of them are so nice.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

huh, they beat dogs to death with sticks...sad.


what they dont have guns over there so it would at least be quick?


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

SpoiledFishies said:


> huh, they beat dogs to death with sticks...sad.
> 
> 
> what they dont have guns over there so it would at least be quick?


No kidding! Its as if they wanted it to be as brutal as possible....


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## mr.dark-saint (Aug 16, 2005)

Well isn't this a study in poli-scie and who is superior? 

Method is "brutal" some may say and others may say tools of "opportunity" (since general mass of China does not have guns but they sure make boat loads to sell). Most police who have guns are rationed ammo for their weapons they have to account for. I compare this as what the Europeans did with Rats when the "Black Plague" ran a muck. Or when the British killed off how many of their cattle back a few years? Or the Avian Flu that's going around now?

As for time or labor intensive act of clubbing the dogs it's all relative since how many of us would get arms length to a rabbid animal (or potentially infected)? Sure you'll have a guy loop one and then someone else muzzle it then shoot it up with some narc-o ****tail (lots of steps). Should ask the Canuks about their yearly seal hunts. Reminds me of the childhood arcade game with a mallet and gophers (is that brutal?). 

I had chickens (and will again) which I named and made fine meals. So where does one draw this line (that differentiate pet and meals on foot or potential meals on foot if say stranded on a deserted island?)? 

I think since most people in this so called civilazed countries think they're higher than the other countries since they don't have to get their hands dirty. Since all they do is go to the local shops nd pick up a cuts of meat and the so called Vegans who pass judgements on the people who likes a nice T-Bone. I know Vegans who still drive their gas guzzlers sneering at me for sitting down and ordering a bloody steak. It's all a supiriority complex.

As for Cultral differnece if it sounds or seems distasteful it's just that "difference". I wonder how the Hindus deals with going to say "Safeway" and walk past the line of cows? (not making fun I just wanna know). What most amuses me about Americans or Europeans is that they say they are "accepting" or "broad minded" are really saying only if it pleases them. Besides criticizing folks is fun and makes one feel supirior doesn't it? 

Vaccinated? I doubt it weather domesticated or not. Even this day and age in Europe or here in the States if it's not required until you get caught. I know some back wood breeders don't even bother. So it's not much difference there.

As for treating their fellow country man with lack of respect one just needs to look out side their own doors and see the poor sleeping on the streets. Sure you can blame drugs or abuse or whatever is handy but it all boils down to what you are doing for them now? Is it your problem or societies? Since many folks makes a society, there for it is everyones problem. Do we all do something about it? (other than say it's not my problem or someone should do something and expect someone and not you to deal with it). If you wanna go in to US labor (which was founded on slave labor) which still keeps the poor poor (look at the "minimum wage" it's not minimum it's "below wage") but I won't go in to that since it is a long read.

The comparison between Communism and Community is two very differnet things. Since Communism is a system (of theoretical economic) but the China doesn't follow the true sense since there is a large gap between the poor and the rich (Capitalism anyone?). Just needs to look at Wall-Mart Billion dollar giant (lots of goddies from China made by the poor for the poor) who keeps emploees at the bottom. 

As for the Chinese Culture being the "worst" I doubt that seriously (politics maybe). I could say the same about Americans. How much does the US use in world energy? Or the way US pushes it's will to other contries and tell them to like it? Trade embargos, Tariffs, if they don't please the US is how they get answered. Chinese Culture (what's left of the original) is very diverse. Again I could go on about this but I'll spare you. (no I am not Chinese if y'alls are thinking).

Personally, I feel that China (and it's parts) will have a civil war (same goes for the US) in the near future. When that happens Let me know some cool recipes on "Scruppy".


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

mr.dark-saint said:


> Well isn't this a study in poli-scie and who is superior?
> 
> Method is "brutal" some may say and others may say tools of "opportunity" (since general mass of China does not have guns but they sure make boat loads to sell). Most police who have guns are rationed ammo for their weapons they have to account for. I compare this as what the Europeans did with Rats when the "Black Plague" ran a muck. Or when the British killed off how many of their cattle back a few years? Or the Avian Flu that's going around now?
> 
> ...



Damn I had a whole post already.................and it got dumped.

Anyway, I was saying wow, someone is sure brushed up on their sociology huh?

Nevertheless, you may assume that because I'm American and I have feelings on this issue that I must be uneducated. Or that perhaps I pick and choose my issues. No, I'm not poor but I'm certainly empathetic to the plight. There are many issues that are important to me. The fact that most of this country's homeless are mentally ill and not in fact derelict druggies. The fact that children are getting their genitals mutilated in Africa in an attempt to keep them from being promiscuious and getting AIDS. The fact that there is constant war and babies are being killed, people are sold as slaves, women are murdered. It hurts me that seals and baby seals are clubbed. That there are so many homeless animals. That so many children in our country don't have healthcare. So, animals are my hot button........does that make me a hypocrite?? I don't think so, its an issue thats important to me. I'm lucky I've not had to cook up my dog and eat him. Thank God for that because where I sit today I don't think I could do it.

Thank GOD I don't live in China. 

I totally disagree that more industrialized nations/richer nations think they're "Higher" because they don't have to get their hands dirty. Have you ever been poor in the US? If you have, you sure as hell wouldn't assume that because someone lives in this country they think they're better. And don't assume that everyone on this board does either......you have no idea what walks of life are on here. 

_"As for treating their fellow country man with lack of respect one just needs to look out side their own doors and see the poor sleeping on the streets. Sure you can blame drugs or abuse or whatever is handy but it all boils down to what you are doing for them now? Is it your problem or societies? Since many folks makes a society, there for it is everyones problem. Do we all do something about it? (other than say it's not my problem or someone should do something and expect someone and not you to deal with it). If you wanna go in to US labor (which was founded on slave labor) which still keeps the poor poor (look at the "minimum wage" it's not minimum it's "below wage") but I won't go in to that since it is a long read."_

That isn't fair. You have NO idea who everyone is or what they've seen, been through or have had/not had in their life. What do you do about the homeless? Do you personally know anyone who is/was homeless? I do, and I assure you that I do not sit and do nothing.

You have no way of knowing everyone and what they do. All you can do is make a generalization, start attacking people for being passionate about particular issues and throw around your sociology education. So, because this wasn't a thread on all of the horrors of the world, you feel the need to come and point them all out and ask what exactly are we doing about them.

Give me a break.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Looks like they have gone for round 2.

For the second time in days, Chinese authorities have ordered a mass slaughter of dogs to curb a rabies outbreak — drawing criticism from animal lovers but also support from many who say it's the only way to contain a disease that kills more than 2,000 Chinese a year. 
Officials in the eastern city of Jining plan to kill all dogs within three miles of areas where rabies has been found, the official Xinhua News Agency said Friday.
The measure came in response to the deaths of 16 people from rabies in Jining in the last eight months, Xinhua said. It didn't say when the slaughter would begin or how the animals would be killed. It said the city had about 500,000 dogs.
Rabies cases are on the rise in China, with 2,651 reported deaths from the disease in 2004, the last year for which data was available. Only 3 percent of the country's dogs are vaccinated against rabies.
Last week, a county in southwestern Yunnan province killed 50,000 dogs, many of them beaten to death in front of their owners, after three people died of rabies.
The slaughters have outraged animal rights groups, who call them cruel and a sign of government incompetence in dealing with rabies, an often fatal disease that attacks the nervous system but which can be warded off with a series of injections.
"I think this is completely insane," said Zhang Luping, founder of the Beijing Human and Animal Environmental Education Center.
"What's more, this really damages our national image and sets a really bad example to show how lazy and inconsiderate those local government officials are," Zhang said.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals called such killings a "hideously cruel response," in a statement on its Web site.
After last week's slaughter, the group canceled about $300,000 orders for merchandise made in China and called for a boycott of Chinese-made products to protest what it calls widespread cruelty to animals in the country.
The killings in Yunnan prompted unusually pointed criticism in state media, with many commentators saying it signaled how little capacity the local government had to deal with routine health issues.
Other slaughters have been reported elsewhere in China this year, although the government says it has no standard policy of destroying dogs.
Zhang, the founder of the Beijing education center, said there were no laws under which citizens could stop the killings. However, she said she and other animal protection activists were reaching out through the media to try to change policy.
"I think this brutal and cold-blooded campaign should stop as soon as possible," Zhang said.
People who answered the phone at Jining's city government and the epidemic control center refused to comment or said they weren't authorized to release information to the media.
The World Health Organization has not directly criticized the slaughters, but WHO experts have said they underscore a lack of coordination and other problems within China's health care system.
The killings have also prompted a slew of impassioned postings in online forums.

"Tens of thousands of people die in traffic accidents each year, but we don't ban cars. Dogs are simply easy to persecute," said one unsigned posting on Xinhua's electronic bulletin board. "People opposed to killing dogs ought to think how they'd feel if they or a relative was infected with rabies. Are people's or dogs' lives more important?" said another, also unsigned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060804/ap_on_re_as/china_dogs_killed


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

MsDolittle, ITA

But spare me the lecture guys, about world sociology and national awareness. Basically the vast majority of Chinese people don't see anything wrong with battering animals to death, and always find any excus to do it. 
Don't tell me Chinese don't have any other alternatives. There are plently of less brutal ways of culling a vast population of animals.
What the Chinese people are doing now is wrong, whether you are an animal lover or a regular human being.
The only thing is, what can the Western society do to stop them?


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## stinky (Jul 25, 2006)

why the heck have they not stoped this its the dumbst idea i ever heard,if someone here beat a dog to death they would get 10 years in jail


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## highliner (Jul 2, 2006)

Well spoken msdolittle...and that's coming from someone who's in a position to APPRECIATE his current situation; and knowing it's a damn short walk to the alternative.

Re: China: As bad as things may get here, I'm very glad that my 5 yr old child (who also happens to be female, if you know what I'm saying) doesn't have to grow up in that kind of culture.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you Cichlid Man and Highliner!

I'm popping in from out of town so I can't type much right now.....but I'll be watching this thread and I'll have more to say when I get home for sure!


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2006)

What does ITA stand for? lol


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## mr.dark-saint (Aug 16, 2005)

Let me clarify when I use the term "You" I am not speaking you as a person but as a general you. Kind a like Spike Lee needed the TV Channel "SPIKE" to fork over some cash for the use of that word. 

Having feelings is fine we all have them (to an extent) but imposing your (not yours in case you're wondering) "feelings" to someone else is another. Female genital mutilation is not just gender only. Take the little infant boys who gets clipped for "religion" of the parents or so called "health" benefits. Sure since it's done a few hours or days after birth the boy don't recall it but where are the protesters for that? As for the "new" spin for the mutilation (if I recall it's a Muslim thing) with AIDS and HIV is rampant (as it is in Eastern Europe but they're not doing it) it's still cultural in this case Religious reason. Since Muslim is a branch off the Jewish religion (as so is Christianity) the boys have to bear that weight of this mutilation (or circumcision if you prefer).

There has always been war and people killing one thing or another since we learned how to kill more efficiently. It's war, genocide, holocaust call it what you will it takes place in all forms on this planet, it's just televised for us and not in the worlds of Microbes or Ants (actually they get their time on Animal Planet). Same thing for slavery. 

Are animals really "homeless"? Or are they just doing what animals do? It's true since there are no places for the animals to roam they get put down. Since the "plunger" person is man or woman who decides for them that they are homeless they're to be killed then ground up to become meat by-product in animal feed so man or woman can feed their "pets". So people are playing god by putting "balance" in place on this earth. When the seas swallow up man isn't earth trying to "balance" it's self? After all there are quite a few of us here making room for more of us. 

I never call you (this time I am referring to you) a hypocrite just P.E.T.A. and S.P.C.A. This explains the action well "A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then mount the stump and make a speech for conservation. — Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965)". This is what P.E.T.A. does save the dogs and cats while they kills them by the thousands. I think the word you're looking for to describe your feeling is passionate.

"I totally disagree that more industrialized nations/richer nations think they're "Higher" because they don't have to get their hands dirty. Have you ever been poor in the US? If you have, you sure as hell wouldn't assume that because someone lives in this country they think they're better. And don't assume that everyone on this board does either......you have no idea what walks of life are on here." This part confuses me but what I can gather I can say "Yes I have been poor in this country of United States". Poor is poor (some places are worse than others). So you've never thought "at least I'm better off than them" or "better you than me"? I never made assumption on the people on this board (so you must've read in to something).

Now the part where you come back with "That isn't fair. You have NO idea who everyone is or what they've seen, been through or have had/not had in their life. What do you do about the homeless? Do you personally know anyone who is/was homeless? I do, and I assure you that I do not sit and do nothing." I didn't bring baby girls in ditches (and I wasn't looking to find a fight). I made an observation and you (yes you) read it as I was asking you personally. But if you must know few jobs back I had interactions with homeless people on regular basis. It was tough, since I made no difference (to me it seemed that way) so I gave up. And it's great that you're involved but the answer I gave was for indifference of man.

"You have no way of knowing everyone and what they do. All you can do is make a generalization, start attacking people for being passionate about particular issues and throw around your sociology education. So, because this wasn't a thread on all of the horrors of the world, you feel the need to come and point them all out and ask what exactly are we doing about them." It's true I don't know everyone. Generalization I did. Attacking people I did not mearly asked. I didn't come to give out a lesson but I did come out and ask and give out my slant on the questions. This thread became a "horrors of the world" when baby girls ended up in ditches. For me all this thread was about clubbing dogs and how one country dealt with their social problem. Keeping the over populated country "healthy" but clubbing dogs. After all vaccines cost money and skilled people to do it or clubbing where anyone with two arms can do them selves. 

I think I answered you (even though most of the things I went in to wasn't meant for you) so enjoy "your break".

Sorry to have bored you Cichlid Man. It's just that articles get posted and all jump on to say that's brutal, what idiots and such and do nothing but point. It's not the people but the "powers be" that tell them to deal with limited or no resources. 95% of Chinese in China are dirt poor and they don't have easy access to meds or vaccines for people (but let a long for a dog?). 

Highliner - It's not the Chinese Culture to dispose of baby girls but what the Government imposed to slow the overpopulation (what is it like 1.3 Billion Chinese?). In most cultures it is prefered to have male children to pass on the family name and be able to work the land. Besides most Chinese in China can't afford to pay the fine for having more than one child. But they will feel what they've done in a few generation when they don't have enough girls to birth Chinese babies (not that it's going to be a likely scenario).


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2006)

Hey Kenneth and Windi (Highliner) glad to see you around these parts!!! An absolute darling of a daughter I must say too!! My kids miss her and we should all get together again sometime soon...
Talk To You Soon,
Mark


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## highliner (Jul 2, 2006)

Actually, one of my co-workers is adopting one of those unwanted baby girls from China, and I've talked to him at length about it, I do have some idea what's going on over there, re: baby girls...if anyone's interested, China will sell you one, cheap- in fact, I was thinking of his situation when I made that statement...you can call it what you want, but I couldn't see a Western "government" making that sort of imposition (or for that matter, deciding to club 50,000 dogs to death in front of the whole world, rather than at least euthanizing them), could YOU? How does a country become "overpopulated", or at least unable to support it's population (like China or Africa), in the first place? Is THAT government-imposed also?

All I tried to say was: I'm glad I live where I do, and not in a place like that. Our society (be it culture or government...but which comes first?) most definitely has it's share of faults- but I'd still rather raise a family here than anywhere else...so far, anyway. :wink: 

ITA= I Totally Agree...right?

I wondered when I'd run across you on here, Mark....I saw a few of your posts & almost said hi, but I know you've been busy- how did you guys do at the ACA? We planned to go, but I got sent to St. Louis on a storm break...plus Windi had a loss in her family 3 wks ago- we just didn't make it. Maybe next year! I think we should definitely all get togethere sometime soon...keep in touch.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2006)

highliner said:


> ITA= I Totally Agree...right?


Thanks....lol


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## robyn (May 29, 2006)

> Female genital mutilation is not just gender only. Take the little infant boys who gets clipped for "religion" of the parents or so called "health" benefits. Sure since it's done a few hours or days after birth the boy don't recall it but where are the protesters for that? As for the "new" spin for the mutilation (if I recall it's a Muslim thing) with AIDS and HIV is rampant (as it is in Eastern Europe but they're not doing it) it's still cultural in this case Religious reason. Since Muslim is a branch off the Jewish religion (as so is Christianity) the boys have to bear that weight of this mutilation (or circumcision if you prefer).


circumcision isn't only done for religous aspects today. it has been medically proven that it is heathier because it lowers chances of infection and many people do it for that reason, not the religous reason.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

mr.dark-saint said:


> Let me clarify when I use the term "You" I am not speaking you as a person but as a general you. Kind a like Spike Lee needed the TV Channel "SPIKE" to fork over some cash for the use of that word.
> 
> Having feelings is fine we all have them (to an extent) but imposing your (not yours in case you're wondering) "feelings" to someone else is another. Female genital mutilation is not just gender only. Take the little infant boys who gets clipped for "religion" of the parents or so called "health" benefits. Sure since it's done a few hours or days after birth the boy don't recall it but where are the protesters for that? As for the "new" spin for the mutilation (if I recall it's a Muslim thing) with AIDS and HIV is rampant (as it is in Eastern Europe but they're not doing it) it's still cultural in this case Religious reason. Since Muslim is a branch off the Jewish religion (as so is Christianity) the boys have to bear that weight of this mutilation (or circumcision if you prefer).


Are you kidding me?? You have NO idea of the huge anti RIC movement that is all over right now? You must not have kids. And as far as the female genital mutilation,no, I'm not just talking about muslim mutilation, I'm talking about all of the children who go through this horror. Girls are mutilated regularly in Africa for example.



mr.dark-saint said:


> There has always been war and people killing one thing or another since we learned how to kill more efficiently. It's war, genocide, holocaust call it what you will it takes place in all forms on this planet, it's just televised for us and not in the worlds of Microbes or Ants (actually they get their time on Animal Planet). Same thing for slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> Are animals really "homeless"? Or are they just doing what animals do? It's true since there are no places for the animals to roam they get put down. Since the "plunger" person is man or woman who decides for them that they are homeless they're to be killed then ground up to become meat by-product in animal feed so man or woman can feed their "pets". So people are playing god by putting "balance" in place on this earth. When the seas swallow up man isn't earth trying to "balance" it's self? After all there are quite a few of us here making room for more of us.


Another, are you kidding me? Homeless animals in america are indeed homeless. They are no longer wild animals, they are domesticated....which means they need and rely on the care of humans for their survival. Sure, there are feral cat colonies and dogs that have taken to being wild again, but for the most part, these are domesticated animals living on the streets.



mr.dark-saint said:


> I never call you (this time I am referring to you) a hypocrite just P.E.T.A. and S.P.C.A. This explains the action well "A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then mount the stump and make a speech for conservation. — Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965)". This is what P.E.T.A. does save the dogs and cats while they kills them by the thousands. I think the word you're looking for to describe your feeling is passionate.
> 
> "I totally disagree that more industrialized nations/richer nations think they're "Higher" because they don't have to get their hands dirty. Have you ever been poor in the US? If you have, you sure as hell wouldn't assume that because someone lives in this country they think they're better. And don't assume that everyone on this board does either......you have no idea what walks of life are on here." This part confuses me but what I can gather I can say "Yes I have been poor in this country of United States". Poor is poor (some places are worse than others). So you've never thought "at least I'm better off than them" or "better you than me"? I never made assumption on the people on this board (so you must've read in to something).
> 
> ...


In this quote, I see your point. You're right, vaccines are not cheap and yes, it does require a certain amount of training to be able to do it (in this country anyway, really it requires no skill but I have no idea what China's regulations are regarding the administration of vaccinations). 



mr.dark-saint said:


> I think I answered you (even though most of the things I went in to wasn't meant for you) so enjoy "your break".
> 
> Sorry to have bored you Cichlid Man. It's just that articles get posted and all jump on to say that's brutal, what idiots and such and do nothing but point. It's not the people but the "powers be" that tell them to deal with limited or no resources. 95% of Chinese in China are dirt poor and they don't have easy access to meds or vaccines for people (but let a long for a dog?).
> 
> Highliner - It's not the Chinese Culture to dispose of baby girls but what the Government imposed to slow the overpopulation (what is it like 1.3 Billion Chinese?). In most cultures it is prefered to have male children to pass on the family name and be able to work the land. Besides most Chinese in China can't afford to pay the fine for having more than one child. But they will feel what they've done in a few generation when they don't have enough girls to birth Chinese babies (not that it's going to be a likely scenario).


In summary, I can see your point in some of your arguements.


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

robyn said:


> circumcision isn't only done for religous aspects today. it has been medically proven that it is heathier because it lowers chances of infection and many people do it for that reason, not the religous reason.


Actually........the American Academy of Pediatrics now says there is no medical benefit to routine infant circumcision.........but, thats a whole other debate.  There is much more risk to RIC than leaving a child intact.......but thats too much info to post here right now.


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