# best staple food, in terms of brands and type.



## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

currently, i feed my five skirt tetras "tetramin tropical crisps" as staple food. i would add frozen food as well, but my dorm roommate already thinks that the the crisps are smelly, so defrosting frozen bloodworms and whatnot would be out of the question . so currently i'm limited to flake/crisp food and pellets or freeze-dried products. i put some hikari freeze-dried brine shrimp in there, and they gobbled it up.

what, in your opinions, are the healthiest foods for fish[specifically skirt/ black widow tetras,] without it being live or frozen?

question #2: i feed my betta hikari bio-gold pellets. are these recommended?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I do like hikari foods and OSI. But the important thing with foods is to match the fishes needs in particle size, sinking vs. floating, and protein/plant content. I think tetras eat animals so get 2 or 3 high protein foods that fit in their mouths that they like to eat and rotate them. All brands try to be "nutritionally complete" but having different brands ups the odds. Don't get too big a container, food loses vitamins over time. And when the roomies out, sneak in some live bugs or brine shrimp.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

My bettas both love hikari so i would recommend it


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## Betta1 (Jan 5, 2007)

I've found that hikari is a great brand. For my cichlids I feed new life spectrum and community I just feed tetra flakes.

Is it the thawing out of frozen foods he can't stand or the storage? If it's the thawing out process why not just do that in the tank? stick it in and rub it with your fingers and let it go that way?

Brine shrimp is essentialy candy, no nutrition but tastey.

A co-worker told me the improtant thing to food nutrition isn't what they use but how they cook it, the faster and higher temp the more nutrition lost, the slower and lower temp the better the food. I have no idea if this is true or not.


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## Dr_House (Aug 15, 2006)

I am a big fan of the Omega One flakes. Of course you can't go wrong with Hikari either. I also like to include vegetable in the diet of my fish. Omega One makes a great vegetable flake as well, but any Spirulina flakes will do.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

both my bettas hate omega one freeze dried brine shrimp


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## Eraserhead (Feb 1, 2007)

I've used a lot of Hikari and it seems to be pretty good. Not terribly messy either. There is a place called Bluegrass Cichlids in Louisville that makes some really outstanding foods. I've been using his stuff for a couple weeks and they really love it.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

does anybody know if automatic feeders will feed pellets


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

This $50 one does. But if you aren't home to feed the fish, you're not home to change water, so its usually better to let them go hungry.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I like Aqueon and Omega One. Mainly because they are made of WHOLE fish meal instead of just "fish meal" meaning the whole fish is used vs parts of fish.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

If fish food is anything like dog food, it's actually better to have fishmeal instead of a whole fish listed as the first ingredient. When they are telling you what's in the food, the "most" goes first on the list, of course. Well, with a whole meat source, you're actually getting the weight of the water along with everything else. Whereas, if it's just fish meal, you know that's strictly fish, no water included.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I think you are missinterpriting what I've said. WHOLE fish meal means they use the WHOLE fish... fillets, guts, head, bones, and all... now fish meal can include just the by products meaning the head, guts. bones, and fins which have very little monetary value to the company that is making the fish food. That is why... by oz. these fish foods are more expensive than the others.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

oh and by the way... water wouldn't be a factor here considering that all these foods are dehydrated.


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## FinnFan (Aug 28, 2007)

Well, whole fish meal is a good ingredient I'm sure, and better than simply "fish meal". I agree on that. As far as the water goes... water weight would still come into play I believe. The ingredients you start out with are wet, and they become dry just like in dog food. Dog food may contain more moisture than fish food, but the concept still applies, I think.

If I threw 5 lbs of whole fish into one dehydrator, and 5 lbs of fish meal into the other dehydrator, which would I have more of, when the time was up? The fish meal, I would think, because it started out with less water than the whole fish.

A better explanation, from a respected dog food info source:

"Using "fresh, whole, or deboned" chicken as a protein source sounds good to the public, but in fact it is a marketing gimmick. Why?.... because in the industry, ingredients are listed on the bags in the order of their weight before cooking. Therefore, whole, fresh or deboned chicken (which has a large amount of water) is listed first on the label. Yet when whole meats are cooked down, they are actually much less in their protein content, than when one uses a meal, which is already cooked and water removed.

So the end results is, a food using fresh, whole or deboned meats, is a food that is really a grain based diet and not a meat based diet at all. "

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/whole_meat_vs_meal.htm

But if in fish food, they begin with all dehydrated product anyway, then I guess it wouldn't make a difference. I personally don't know how fish food is made. Only how dog food is made


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

So what make a bad food? The only food I can remember throwing away turned my water blue (Wardleys).


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

The price of fish food, like Fishfirst said, has to do with what's used in the food and how much effort the manufacturer has to put into researching the effectiveness of the food. Whole fish meal is obviously better for the reasons already explained.

Optimum quality food would consist of quality ingredients and production. The final water content of fish food generally varies and has to do with the shelf life of the foods.

If a dried food has a higher water content, it has a shorter shelf life. The high water content means less of a product is used in production of the food and goes farther for the manufacturer. You'll be buying it more often too . Ever notice how Wardleys fish flakes get so "stale"?

So, a "bad" food would be one that has less than quality products used in its production. A cheaper brand may get you more for your money at the time, but there's most likely more filler products in it than nutritional value.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6168815-description.html

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/fisheries/420-256/420-256.html#L9


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Thanks ichthius that was the point I was trying to get across...


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

check out some different brands and make a poll outta this and for your last option put other and then bracket if you choose other please post which brand close bracket


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Thread revival, because it didn't make sense to just open a new one on the same topic. My Tetra flakes are about to run out so I'm looking to restock. I love Hikari but they don't seem to make flake food. Am I wrong?
I have neon tetras and a honey gourami. What I plan on getting is Tetramin Flakes
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4253&pcatid=4253
I also feed them about once a week frozen brine shrimp. Here's my question. Would it benefit them if I alternated the flake food with some herbivore flake food, such as Tetra Algae? It's a herbivore food, I wanna make sure my fish get some veggies too in their diet
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16856&pvid=67508&productnum=0029802
Anything else besides peas that I could try feeding them? Some floating lettuce leaves?
Seems that Tetramin Flakes has more stuff than Tetramin Tropical Crisp. Flakes then ought to be a better one to get, right?

Later edit: after reading what the foods have in them, seems that Tetra Algae would be overkill, as the flakes already have that stuff in them.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

fishbone said:


> Thread revival, because it didn't make sense to just open a new one on the same topic. My Tetra flakes are about to run out so I'm looking to restock. I love Hikari but they don't seem to make flake food. Am I wrong?


Sure they do - just hard to find IME:

http://www.hikariusa.com/tropical.htm



> I have neon tetras and a honey gourami. What I plan on getting is Tetramin Flakes
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4253&pcatid=4253
> I also feed them about once a week frozen brine shrimp. Here's my question. Would it benefit them if I alternated the flake food with some herbivore flake food, such as Tetra Algae? It's a herbivore food, I wanna make sure my fish get some veggies too in their diet
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16856&pvid=67508&productnum=0029802
> ...


Both neon tetras and gourami's are pretty insectivorous - I would include some bloodworms and daphnia in their diet (frozen or freeze dried). IMO neither is a big algae-eater in the wild - I think most of the veggies they consume would be in the guts of insect or crustacean prey. So I wouldn't worry too much about adding a veggie component to the diet - modern fish food processing tends to use veggie starch as a flake binder, so almost all flakes have some veggie component.
I personally am not a big fan of Tetra flakes (alot of filler in my opinion) and would sooner lean towards Ocean Nutrition, Omega Sea, OSI, or Hikari. That being said, millions of fish have been raised (and bred) on Tetra foods over the years, so it's not a _bad_ choice, just not _my_ first choice.

I like to include "color enhancing" foods in the menu, just because they tend to contain higher levels of the pigments and amino acids that fish process for color - ie Omega One Color Flakes, Tetra Colorbits, Cyclop-eeze, etc.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

I am also a big fan of Hikari. Too bad Dr Foster and Smith don't seem to carry the flake stuff. Thanks for the direction, I will also look into bloodworms and daphnia. But I will keep feeding flakes as well, they've been doing great on them so far and I have to remember I need to feed my shrimpies too 
Bloodworms AND daphnia, or bloodworms or daphnia? Are they to be fed as treats, or can be used as a daily food?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

i really enjoy ocean nutrition's stuff. (rather, my fish do) it's in the marine section of the fish food aisle, but if you read the container, it says it's for freshwater AND marine. i feed them formula two, prime reef, and tetra tropical crisps.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

bloodworms are high-protein food. So as a treat or for spawning conditioning, except for fish the need a high-protein diet. Daphia is great for small fish and fry.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2008)

I can't say how good the flakes I use are, but the ingredients seem to be good and I recognize alot of the stuff its made of. I order my flakes from http://www.kensfish.com. I liked that their veggie flakes were actually made of veggies.  He sells a variety of his own flakes, pellets, and wafers, as well as some brand names, like HBH which I have heard is a good brand.

I use some pellets and spirulina wafers from Kens as well.  And shipping was pretty cheap and fast.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

JustOneMore20 said:


> I order my flakes from http://www.kensfish.com. I liked that their veggie flakes were actually made of veggies.  He sells a variety of his own flakes, pellets, and wafers, as well as some brand names, like HBH which I have heard is a good brand.
> 
> I use some pellets and spirulina wafers from Kens as well.  And shipping was pretty cheap and fast.


Me too :mrgreen:

Ken is awesome to deal with. He actually lives about 20 minutes from me, and I've talked with him a number of times at various fishy events (conventions etc) plus over the phone and via email. He's a really nice guy and his stuff rocks.

I just ordered a bunch of food from him (again) - I use his sinking veggie sticks and sinking earthworm sticks to raise my baby ancistris - they are perfect for little baby plecos, high in veggies and nice and soft.
And his color crumble is perfect for my little shellies 
I also dig his private label emperor filter cartridges for $1.50 each :mrgreen: and cichlid spawning caves and heater and *babble babble babble*

oops

sorry. I've been trying not to sound like a commercial for Kensfish - which is why I hadn't mentioned him in this thread - and then *poof* it happens again

:chair:


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. I will try the Hikari line of daphnia and bloodworks, alternating them along with flakes once every other feeding or so. I love my fishies so much, they're a little fat


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

How long do you guys generally use this stuff? In other words, does flake food and dry bloodworms, daphnia etc. ever go bad? I ask because I got the stuff I ordered and these 2oz containers are probably going to last me 150 years, haha.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Stuff in the freezer too long dries out and gets covered with ice. You can tell when it needs throwing out. I've used flake and pellet foods that were many years old. It doesn't "go bad" per se, but it loses vitamins. So its not a good idea to make old food your only food. Its a good idea to store unused food in sealed containers and maybe in the fridge or freezer as well.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

What's a "safe" cutoff? Would a year and half be acceptable?


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## neilfishguy (Oct 7, 2007)

just hammer some steak and veggies and potatoe on the sidewalk untill it is flat and then let it dry. Best flake food ever


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm such a dork. The "best by" date is right on the bottom of the containers. 2009 for both of them so that gives me good time


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