# getting into saltwater.



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

so i recently just inherited a 28 gallon bow front that was being used for saltwater so i figured its time anyways that i get into it and start a tank of my own. so now i have lots of questions. so obviously its going to be a nano tank for now but i have plans to upgrade once i move hopefully to atleast a 75. my plans are to have only 2-3 fish one of them being a gold midas blenny because they are my favorite and probably a clown goby. the rest of my stock is going to consist of soft corals and inverts. ive been looking on foster and smith at all their beginner corals and fish so i plan on stocking out of this selection so i do not get in over my head with something thats hard to take care of. so basically the lighting i am looking at is a T5 fixture with 10,000k bulb and true actinic for $50 and i know foster and smith classifies their corals and stuff by lighting requirments like low medium moderate and high what would a t5 be concidered and is it adequate for what i want or is their something better relative in price as i dont really want to spend over $100 when the tank isnt perminent. also i need a protein skimmer small enough for the tank we only sell ones no smaller than for 100 gallons. my next question would be how soon do you add live rock. if im not mistaken its one of the first things in the tank? my plan is 1 month fishless cycle then one month a couple green chromis then switch those out for my fish and then add my cleaners and other inverts over the course of 6 months and at 6 months start adding the corals. does this sound right time wise? also we have our coral tank here at work i have access to water i could use to establish the tank and filter media could this help me establish the tank faster for corals? what types of chemicals will i need to balance the tank. i will post of the corals on foster and smith that im looking at to help. also do corals account for bioload and need to be added one at a time or not because it would be a lot less strain on my pocket not having to pay shipping and handleing so many times. thats all i can think of for now if i have more questions ill post more and any other advice is greatly appreciated.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Bye, it was nice knowing you. Too bad you were seduced by the "dark side". 

Seriously, all my freshwater friends who just try 1 salt tank, end up spending so much time and money on it, they dump their freshwater tanks. I get tempted to try, then I pinch myself.

Best advice is find a local salt club. Best place for cheap used equipment, starts of everything, frags, etc. 

Best of luck.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

emc7 said:


> Bye, it was nice knowing you. Too bad you were seduced by the "dark side".
> 
> Seriously, all my freshwater friends who just try 1 salt tank, end up spending so much time and money on it, they dump their freshwater tanks. I get tempted to try, then I pinch myself.
> 
> ...


lol im most certainly not going anywhere and def not getting rid of my freshwater i love my fishes. but i love corals and stuff and i work at a store with a pretty descent salt water section and any time a customer comes in that doesn't know anything or hasn't done research on what they want i just say sorry youll have to come back when our saltwater guy is in. i think this will help give me a reason to learn. and i already spend so much money and time on everything i have it cant get to much worse.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Hey Ive had my salt tank for over a year and its still my smallest tank by far and I spend way more time taking care of my other two fresh tanks! 
oh I did just get a 90 to turn salt though... but im selling to red sea so my ration will still be 2 to 1 with my discus tank still being the biggest lol
And I was just like you revo, I knew nothing about salt until I got into it, now im one of the salt guys in work lol you will learn fast in salt.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

here are some of the corals im looking at the most. http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2856+2139&pcatid=2139
idk about the lighting on this one i dont know if the t5 is adequate for it but maybe ill get something stronger. also if a coral says the lighting requirements is low will having a stronger light hurt it? http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2856+2412&pcatid=2412
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2856+427&pcatid=427
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2856+454&pcatid=454
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2856+681&pcatid=681
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2856+661&pcatid=661
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+1464+2983&pcatid=2983
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+598+2043&pcatid=2043
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+598+653&pcatid=653
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2513+2670&pcatid=2670
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2790+2759&pcatid=2759
i definetly dont plan on getting all of them just looking for input on compatability and which ones would be best in a tank of my size. ill be posting some inverts and such soon.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

are these guys super difficult to keep alive? http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+524+2198&pcatid=2198
if someone could maybe point me to a site with awesome see slugs available that would be great.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

i was also looking at one of these guys http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+530+595&pcatid=595


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Ok first of all, nudibranches are very hard to care for and if they die in your tank, especially one as small as yours, it will poison your tank and kill most everything.
The tree coral will be fine, it will get quite big though so youll prob have to cultivate it.
The brain coral is fine, it grows extremely slow, and you will need a seasoned (at least 6 month old) tank
Candy canes are very easy you wont have any problems with them
Zoas are easy but dont be shocked when they dont look as good in your tank as they do in the picture.
Mushrooms are easy and they are one of the few that actually will do bad if they get too much light, all you need to do is put them low in your tank
Acans are easy but again dont be surprised if they dont look as good in your tank, also its nice to hand feed them every once in a while
Ricordea and blue mushrooms are mushrooms so same deal with them as mushrooms
Duncans are very nice, they grow fast, seem to do weel in any part of the tank as long as they arent getting too much flow, but they need to be hand fed regularly
Stay away from the palau, they NEVER look as good as they do in the pic and your tank def would need to be at least 6 months old.
All the things you chose are compatible and i would ask you to look into green star polpys, cloves, and blue xenia


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+697&pcatid=697
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+704&pcatid=704
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+526+1763&pcatid=1763
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+526+565&pcatid=565
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+526+2844&pcatid=2844
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+526+1755&pcatid=1755
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+501+1479&pcatid=1479
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+501+2913&pcatid=2913


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

lol the one you told me to avoid was my least favorite so thats good and i was kind of expecitng that of the slug are their any that arn't difficult and dont poison? how are these guys i know it says their poison will usually not harm a normal sized tank but idk what that means http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+502+715&pcatid=715 and how many corals do u think i could have if i went with the ones listed? probably not enough room for one of each right? oh and could u get me some links to the ones you listed?


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Fire shrimp are fine, good cleaners
Dont know much about red banded shrimp
Nassarius snails are very good cleaners and sand sifters but they are predators and can take down small shrimp
Bumblebee snails eat other snails
Astreas are just fine
Turben snails are no better than astreas
Blue legged hermits are really cool but they get big and require new shells and will often move your corals
I know absolutely nothing about the squat lobster


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> Fire shrimp are fine, good cleaners
> Dont know much about red banded shrimp
> Nassarius snails are very good cleaners and sand sifters but they are predators and can take down small shrimp
> Bumblebee snails eat other snails
> ...


what about other hermit crabs are their any better suited ones for a reef? i know they can sometimes stress out corals and i dont want that. ill probably avoid the bumble bees then and try to only have larger shrimp because the nassarius are pretty vital arn't they to keep the sand clean and stirred up under the live rock. are there any small sand sifting fish? im looking at a clown goby, midas blenny, and maybe an orange spotted prawn goby to pair with the red banded. but i am open to ideas if you know some better fish but i am very partial to the midas blenny they are awesome.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

nassarius are very good but look at cerithe snails, they are almost just like nassarius but they arent near as predatory.
I loved my blue legged hermit (I gave him to my friend who has a FOWLR) but he would take food from my corals and knock them over every night. I don't recommend hermits in reef tanks
You can look into serpant stars too because they do rock and sand cleaning.
lawnmower blennies can do some sand sifting too. also diamond gobies.
a paired shrimp/goby combo can be pretty sweet though!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> nassarius are very good but look at cerithe snails, they are almost just like nassarius but they arent near as predatory.
> I loved my blue legged hermit (I gave him to my friend who has a FOWLR) but he would take food from my corals and knock them over every night. I don't recommend hermits in reef tanks
> You can look into serpant stars too because they do rock and sand cleaning.
> lawnmower blennies can do some sand sifting too. also diamond gobies.
> a paired shrimp/goby combo can be pretty sweet though!


how big do the lawnmowers get i know we have some at work but no idea how big they get. i love the starry blennies tho they dont eat algae to do they? i think the diamond goby is the same as an orange spotted prawn goby. and is the kind that pairs witht he shrimp http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+2124+195&pcatid=195


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## kay-bee (Dec 6, 2006)

Revolution1221 said:


> ...i was kind of expecitng that of the slug are their any that arn't *difficult*


Most nudibranchs in the hobby, from my understanding, have very specific diets. Some may eat flatworms, others eat algae, others consume certain species of sponge, some eat specific corals, etc...basically to successfully keep them you need to know what food source is associated with that particular nudibranch species, because for the most part they won't eat anything else and will starve if that food source is depleted in the tank.



Revolution1221 said:


> ...how many corals do u think i could have if i went with the ones listed?


It's hard to say. Corals grow either in size and/or number. You can stock lightly with the intent for them to spread or grow in the tank. Also some corals can be territorial and assail nearby corals with sweeper tentacles, so there may need to be adequate space between them and other corals.

If your corals are firmly fixed to live rock hermit crabs shouldn't be able to move them. My personal problem with hermits were that they would raid my LPS corals of mysis shrimp every time I fed them. I eventually evicted all hermits from my reef tank. Scarlet legged hermits look nice.



Revolution1221 said:


> ...also if a coral says the lighting requirements is low will having a stronger light hurt it?


Too much light can cause them not to expand as much, change color, (e.g., brown out) or may even bleach them. Depending on the coral, however, they may be slowly acclimated to higher levels of light. I keep my low-light demanding either at the bottom of the tank or under live rock ledges (so that they receive indirect light).


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

so if a coral says it needs low light and high to middle placement in the tank. if you were to have higher lighting and placed it in the bottom of the tank does this work? and i still need to know what a t5 is concidered lighting wise.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

T5 is good but how many are you going to have? 2 bulbs? 4?
And yes whatever the lighting and water flow parameters are what you should follow, not placement.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> T5 is good but how many are you going to have? 2 bulbs? 4?
> And yes whatever the lighting and water flow parameters are what you should follow, not placement.


it has one 10,000k bulb and one true actinic


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

you are looking at a low light tank then


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah and be ready for the corals to look much less colorful as they are in pictures.
Some corals will even turn brown in that kind of light. Lighting has a lot to do with color in corals.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

how much better would a 20,000k be? and in those fixtures can you swap the 10k with a 20k or does it require a different fixture.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

It really depends on what your looking for, 20000k is just a different spectrum. There are different bulbs that highlight different colors in coral. And more bulbs is better. Fishfirst probably knows more about bulbs than I do, I just bought my first expensive light fixture lol 400 bucks. But it has 8 bulbs in it and lunar lights so I hope its really nice and works really well.


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## kay-bee (Dec 6, 2006)

When dealing with a dual-T5HO bulb configuration, two 10000K bulbs will generally put out more PAR (photosynthetic active radiation/photosynthetic available radiation) than a 1x 10000K/1x pure actinic bulb configuration.

Additionally, a T5HO fixture with quality individual bulb reflectors (or Single Lamp Reflectors/SLR) will project more light into the tank than a fixture with the same bulbs but lacking individual bulb reflectors, so if you haven't gotten the lights yet it's highly recommend to get a fixture that has SLR's.

Again, coral placement is also a factor. A coral that is positioned 3"-6" below the lights is receiving much more PAR than an identical coral in the same tank that's 16"-20" below the same lighting.



Revolution1221 said:


> what types of chemicals will i need to balance the tank.


With the stony corals, calcium, alkalinity and pH (and probably magnesium) need to be monitored and adjusted as needed. 



Revolution1221 said:


> do corals account for bioload and need to be added one at a time


In my opinion corals generally have a very low or neglible bio-load on the tank as they generally aren't ammonia/nitrite or nitrate producers. In a fully cycled tank it probably doesn't matter how many corals you stock at one time. With that said, the food your provide corals (if it is provided at all) may contribute to the bioload of the tank.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

well this def a little overwhelming could anyone possibly point me to a website that is going to have a fixture with mulitple bulbs and the refloctors one thats not to overpriced.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

www.drsfostersmith.com also feel free to order from the Divers Den on www.liveaquaria.com, the fish are conditioned better there than the main websites fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

This place gets good marks from the planted tank types in my local club. http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/ The choices are pretty endless. I understand some corals are really demanding, but high-energy light raise both your electric bill and the temp, in your room. They can even melt a center brace (people wrap them in tinfoil). They also sell retrofit kits (put new guts in old lights) if you are a diy type.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

I bought my Nova Extreme Pro from drfostersandsmith.com and it came fast, protected, and fully functional and at a price around 200 dollars less than competitors.


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