# DIY Sump, refugium? HOB?



## Linilou

SO. I plan on making one of these for my 75 when i get it/set it up ect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkT9EiY9v60&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9CVVb-C-eY&feature=player_embedded

same basic concept in both vids,

And I has a few DIY Sump related questions, 

1.What type/kind/gph/ Pump do i need for my tank?

2.Do I still need a HOB Filter?

3.What _exactally_ is a refugium? Should I make one? and how could i tie it in with the current sump design? And what should i put in one?

4.What in your opinion, is the best filter media? Scrubbies?Bioballs? Carbon?

5. how do I drill the tank?

and also, should i tie this in too?

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180385&highlight=diy+sump


and i think thats it, thnaks guys!


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## TheOldSalt

1- that depends on what you plan to do with all this.

2- no, but it would probably still help, or not, depending on.. see #1

3- this is a place where little critters can grow and reproduce without being eaten by fish. Again... see #1

4- are you noticing a trend here? see #1

5- you don't. You have a glass shop do it. You _could_ try it yourself, but you reeeeaaaalllly shouldn't if you had to ask this question

6- phosphate removal is a very good thing.


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## Linilou

1.Well, I plan to have a BGK, a Peacock eel, fire eel and maby a large cichlid and a school of rainbows.

highly planted (real/fake), large driftwood peices. hope this helps clear up what im going to do with it?

5.and with the drilling, i think im going to do a pvc hob overflow instead of drilling, seems way safer, lol

unless i can get a predrilled tank :crosses fingers:

6. well how could i tie this in? would i put it over the refugium? or just over the drip pan/bucket?


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## aspects

Linilou said:


> SO. I plan on making one of these for my 75 when i get it/set it up ect.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkT9EiY9v60&feature=player_embedded
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9CVVb-C-eY&feature=player_embedded
> 
> these are you basic DIY wet/dry sumps. very efficiant and extremely cost effective.
> 
> same basic concept in both vids,
> 
> And I has a few DIY Sump related questions,
> 
> 1.What type/kind/gph/ Pump do i need for my tank?
> 
> it depends on the size of the tank.
> generally you want your sump to be 1/4-1/3 the size of your tank. (this is to accomodate for backflow as well as providing a larger water column)
> as far as the flow rate of your overflow and return pump, its really up to you. generally, you want between 5x and 10x turnover. i personally go on the higher end.
> 
> 
> 2.Do I still need a HOB Filter?
> 
> you dont necessarily "need" one, but you can never have too much filtration.
> a properly set up sump will provide all the filtration you need.
> 
> 3.What _exactally_ is a refugium? Should I make one? and how could i tie it in with the current sump design? And what should i put in one?
> 
> a refugium for a FW tank, is essentially a heavily planted area in the sump. the plants help remove nitrates in the tank. this is not a necessity (as your weekly WC will keep the nitrates under control), but it can be beneficial. but keep in mind, plants need light to grow, so you will need a light source on your sump to provide the light for the plants.
> in my FW refugiums i usually stick to fast growing stem plants, floating plants, and mosses. you can just throw a bunch of moss balls in the refugium if you wanted. they are low maintenance and will do the job.
> 
> 4.What in your opinion, is the best filter media? Scrubbies?Bioballs? Carbon?
> 
> scrubbies offer a much higher surface area than bio-balls, and are extremely cheap. if you have access to them, they are your best bet for bio media.
> as far as mechanical media, id suggest going with poly-fill or quilt batting. its a nice fine media which offers good water polishing, and its extremely cheap to replace weekly.
> 
> 5. how do I drill the tank?
> 
> you can buy a glass hole saw and attempt to do it yourself (but you have to be very careful), or you can take the tank to your local glass company to be drilled.
> id suggest you just build an overflow out of PVC pipes. its cheap and very easy. you can build the overflow, return, and all the plumbing for around $6
> 
> and also, should i tie this in too?
> 
> http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180385&highlight=diy+sump
> 
> an algae scrubber would replace the refugium in your sump. they both do the same thing.
> 
> and i think thats it, thnaks guys!



hope this helps

;-)


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## jones57742

ll:

My responses are very similar to aspects.




Linilou said:


> And I has a few DIY Sump related questions,
> 
> 1.What type/kind/gph/ Pump do i need for my tank?


I recommend an external pump.




Linilou said:


> 2.Do I still need a HOB Filter?


No.




Linilou said:


> 3.What _exactally_ is a refugium? Should I make one? and how could i tie it in with the current sump design? And what should i put in one?


3a. Refugiums come out the salt water world,
Refugiums are typically utilized in the fresh water world for nitrate reduction via plants in the refugium.

3b. Depends. Nitrate concentration can be kept at 5 (which IMHO is OK) with a refugium.

3c. Put it between the wet/dry filter and the external pump.

3d. Tons of plants.




Linilou said:


> 4.What in your opinion, is the best filter media? Scrubbies?Bioballs? Carbon?


Scrubbies. Do not use carbon.

Also you need a much larger chamber for the mechanical filtration media than is shown.




Linilou said:


> 5. how do I drill the tank?
> 
> and also, should i tie this in too?


You do not: let a glass shop do this.

Yes with bulkheads: let the glass shop do this also.

TR

BTW: The sump should be half the volume of the tank.


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## aspects

those media chambers are way more than enough. scrubbies have a very high surface area. unless your tank is extremely overstocked, that 5g bucket will be way more than what you need to effectively process ammonia


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## jones57742

aspects said:


> those media chambers are way more than enough. scrubbies have a very high surface area. unless your tank is extremely overstocked, that 5g bucket will be way more than what you need to effectively process ammonia


as:

My reference was to mechanical filtration media.

TR


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## aspects

all you need is a single layer of mechanical media to be efective, especially if youre using a fine media like poly-fill. personally, i use 2 layers (coarse filter pad, and poly-fill) but again, this can be done in a relatively small area.


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## jones57742

aspects said:


> all you need is a single layer of mechanical media to be efective, especially if youre using a fine media like poly-fill. ...


as:

Have you ever experimented with micron (50mu & 100mu) media?

TR


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## aspects

not in a sump. 
i use flow rates that are far too high to effectively utilize a micron filter. and with no sealed pressure to help push the water through the media, i imagine it would end up serving little, if any purpose in a wet/dry scenario.
i have used micron filters in the past (both in the pre fab HOT filters, and with the ones usedfor drinking water, in a DIY). but never tried incorporating it into the mechanical layer of a wet/dry filter.


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## jones57742

aspects said:


> not in a sump.
> 
> i imagine it would end up serving little, if any purpose in a wet/dry scenario.
> 
> but never tried incorporating it into the mechanical layer of a wet/dry filter


as:

Micron filtration works in a wet/dry but you need head room and hence my original comment.

The head room is necessary in order to place the prefiltration media above the micron filtration as well as to generate a head on the micron filtration.

TR


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## aspects

as poly fill will filter out tiny particles, there is no need for expensive micron filters. and even if you were to use micron filters, you would not need any "head room". micron filter paper is a fraction of a millimeter thick. 
there is absolutely no need for any type of micron filter. and if you felt so compelled to use one, incorporating a second powerhead or small submersible pump and an inline micron filter (like the type used for drinking water) is extremely simple, and can be done in the main portion of your sump. 

your original comment was 



jones57742 said:


> you need a much larger chamber for the mechanical filtration media than is shown.


and the fact is, that just isnt true. i have built wet/dry filters with even smaller mechanical filter areas, and they were 100% effective. also, i have built a few using 5g buckets as shown in the videos on the original post. again, these were 100% effective, though you claim the mechanical media layer is insufficient. 

as i said earlier. all you really need is a single layer of mechanical media to do the job. i personally use 2 or 3 layers with a coarse media and a finer media uner that, but even this can be accomplished in a layer less than 1" thick.


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