# Dragon Bichir and Clown knife



## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a Clown knife fish and a Dragon Bichir and neither of them seem to want to swim around. The Clown took awhile to get to eat flake food since he was hand raised on live foods, and the Dragon keeps fighting with my Oscars, but a sense of dominance has been established for now, but if they come out of hiding and i move they swim away and wont come out again. Why is this?


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## fishboy23 (Feb 18, 2006)

As many people on this site have figured out by now, I'm all for keeping tanks fully stocked and beyond, but your tank is to a whole new level. 
Your "dragon bichir" (I'm not sure what species this refers to) is going to get very long, and your clown knife will grow to upwards of 2 feet (Yes, I have seen them this big in people's home aquariums...though those aquariums were 300+ gallons). Combine that with the (for now tiny) oscars and others, your tank is indeed far to small. I dont know what kind of water change regimen you are on, but it would really have to be at least once a week to keep this setup happy for now. 
My bet is that they are simply not comfortable in this setup. Perhaps increasing the number of structures in the tank (lots of hiding places) will make them feel comfortable enough to come out. I know it's counter-intuitive, but more hiding spots usually means you see the fish more. The fish feel more comfortable and dont bother hiding. 
Either way, it seems your setup needs some tweaking or simply a much larger tank. Good luck!


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## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

I know that the oscars will get big, and I have an outside pond for that when it happens. Right now this tank is all I can afford, and all that my dad will let me get. I got it for 40 dollars from a really dumb girl who didn`t know how to take care of it. 
The Dragon Bichir...well thats what they called him at the Fish warehouse, he`s already about six inches long, looks like a snake or chinese dragon type deal, kinda acts like a Hippo the way he swims without moving his body, only the two front fins. The Knife stays holed up in the split log I`ve had in the tank, he does come out around 3 in the morning and rarely when the light is on or during the day. 
I do a 15 gallon change every two weeks with a gravel filter, and my filtration pump tells me when to change the pad thingys, but the tank is still murky and I don`t know why. My main goal is just to keep them all alive for a few more months until I move out on my own and can get a nice 55 gallon tank.


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## frogman5 (Mar 13, 2007)

hes a senegal bichir will get around a foot maybe a little less but not in a 35 gallon you will stunt both the oscars most likely and definitly the clown knife which can grow to be more than three feet if given proper care and housing the biggest one i have seen was 40 inches im not trying to be mean about but just try to take all these fish bak to the pet store or do something with them


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## fishboy23 (Feb 18, 2006)

Komatz12891 said:


> I know that the oscars will get big, and I have an outside pond for that when it happens. Right now this tank is all I can afford, and all that my dad will let me get. I got it for 40 dollars from a really dumb girl who didn`t know how to take care of it.
> The Dragon Bichir...well thats what they called him at the Fish warehouse, he`s already about six inches long, looks like a snake or chinese dragon type deal, kinda acts like a Hippo the way he swims without moving his body, only the two front fins. The Knife stays holed up in the split log I`ve had in the tank, he does come out around 3 in the morning and rarely when the light is on or during the day.
> I do a 15 gallon change every two weeks with a gravel filter, and my filtration pump tells me when to change the pad thingys, but the tank is still murky and I don`t know why. My main goal is just to keep them all alive for a few more months until I move out on my own and can get a nice 55 gallon tank.


Where are you located? If you're anywhere along a hurricane belt or otherwise possibly-flooding area with a warmer climate (south of KY we'll say), please, please, PLEASE dont put those fish outside. The last thing needed is the pond flooding and the fish being washed out to local habitats where they wreak havoc with the natural environment. If you do choose to put them outside, please be careful and know what you are doing.
I'll be honest, this group of fish would doubtfully work in a 55, that clown knife will be HUGE. I wouldn't have one of those things in anything smaller than a 125, if that...not that I would have one in the first place--not my kind of fish, but I wont tell you you're wrong for liking the fish you like. There's never anything wrong with that, but be prepared to house a happy fish. 
I know all about the limiting by parents and space--I'm in a college dorm. I feel your pain. But when my space was limited years ago I found smaller fish that I liked just as well as any other. My first love in fish was (and still is) killies--they fit all I wanted: colorful, small, easy to keep/breed or very difficult and everywhere in between. But as I got more experience (in my local club and in national clubs) I expanded my horizons and found other small fish that worked with my limited space--tetras, small anabantids, cories, apistos--I found other stuff that had appeal too. Perhaps you're familiar with these groups, but I'm guessing not all of them. I guess my long-winded-ness is getting the best of me, so I'll get to the point of all this: dont let space keep you from fish you really like, but dont skimp on space for fish you really like. Good luck!


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## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

well i have my friend ready to take them if needed. she has three 55 gallons, and a 140? i think. she has a 55 gallon chichlid tank too, but she said that if these guys ever got to be too much for me that she`d take them until i could come back for them. i really don`t want to take my oscars back, i got them when they were less than half an inch big and half dead. the knife was a presesnt from my fiance and the Sengal, a present from dad. i know that they won`t get big for maybe a year or two, and if i don`t have adiquate space my then, my friend will take them and hold them for me. Ive never had a fish die, by my hands, the oscars killed three little tetras that came with the tank, so i must be doing something right. right?


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## fishboy23 (Feb 18, 2006)

Komatz12891 said:


> Ive never had a fish die, by my hands, the oscars killed three little tetras that came with the tank, so i must be doing something right. right?


I'll hold off judgement on that until I hear how long you've had fish  j/k
You are doing all you can now, and that is successful enough for the time being. But fish tanks don't quite live in the here and now...they live in the "when this fish is still with me in 2 years...or 5 years..." time warp. Yes, the here and now is important to the fish's immediate well-being, but considerations of things like space, food, and clean water such that the fish can grow to a full adult size comfortably are equally important. I've heard the infamous line "I'll get a bigger tank when the fish gets bigger" then watched the fish die before that new tank comes too many times. I'm not saying you'd do this! But I've seen it happen.


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## frogman5 (Mar 13, 2007)

yeh and the oscars are going to grow fast i mean really fast they will def. need a bigger tank


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## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

well my first oscar was twice the size these two are in six months, and i bought him when he was the same size they were when i bought them...<--wow thats a confusing sentence. anywho..i only had the first one b/c my grandpa wanted him, so i raised him to a certain size and now he lives in tennesee. I`ve had fish for about two or three years now. Outside in the pond I have a baby goldfish and a two inch calico Koi, and i do have a bigger tank lined up, but the Module house we live in now won`t support the weight of a 55 gallon tank, because the floor is hollow underneath or something..


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Seconding the recommendation to get rid of these fish. Sorry, but if you have no means to get a larger tank, you should really donate them to a pet store and get some fish that will do better in that size tank. There are fish that will do fine in a 35 gallon, none of yours will(except maybe the angel...how is it keeping its fins with 2 oscars, though?) You could get a pair of Kribensis cichlids, they have lots of personality and are fun to watch.

How many gallons is your pond?


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## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

Idk how big the pond is, i know it took almost an hour to fill up with a garden hose...its about half the size of our deck...
Idk. I took the bigger oscar, (who apparently was almost 5 inches after i layed him out and measured) and put him in the pond so he will have more room. I also took out the rainbowfish and a snail. That should be sufficient for now.


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## sarahbellum (Feb 28, 2008)

You pulled the oscar out of the tank and like, laid him on the table next to a ruler?


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## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

Well he was on my hand and my dad measured him. we do it all the time when we go fishing. he`s perfectly fine, he hasn`t stopped eating all day since i put him in the pond. It sounds cruel, but all our animals are tough like that, hell I`ve caught my dad feeding both oscars popcorn, cheese its and pieces of pork, lol.


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## sarahbellum (Feb 28, 2008)

We had an oscar in our animal science classroom when I was in high school and he LOVED goldfish crackers. I'm not recommending to anyone that you feed them that, just stating that they will pretty much eat anything that doesn't eat them first. lol


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## Komatz12891 (Oct 31, 2008)

Okie well i guess i cant say i`ve never lost a fish before anymore....because my dad tried to surprise me by remodling the pond, so he emptied it and put white marble in the bottom so that we can see the fish swimming around. well i guess Steve didnt like it because we found him on the ground this morning with the rainbow fish. not a mark on them, just dead.


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

sarahbellum said:


> We had an oscar in our animal science classroom when I was in high school and he LOVED goldfish crackers. I'm not recommending to anyone that you feed them that, just stating that they will pretty much eat anything that doesn't eat them first. lol


Well if you look at the ingredients to most of the crappy foods like Tetra, there isnt too big of a difference, so I imagine there isnt a great deal of harm in it


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

trashion said:


> Seconding the recommendation to get rid of these fish. Sorry, but if you have no means to get a larger tank, you should really donate them to a pet store and get some fish that will do better in that size tank. There are fish that will do fine in a 35 gallon, none of yours will(except maybe the angel...how is it keeping its fins with 2 oscars, though?) You could get a pair of Kribensis cichlids, they have lots of personality and are fun to watch.


+1 If you dont have the means to keep a fish the day you buy it, don't. There are so many species of fish that if you do a little looking around you will find something to fit your taste in the tank size that you have.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Komatz12891 said:


> Okie well i guess i cant say i`ve never lost a fish before anymore....because my dad tried to surprise me by remodling the pond, so he emptied it and put white marble in the bottom so that we can see the fish swimming around. well i guess Steve didnt like it because we found him on the ground this morning with the rainbow fish. not a mark on them, just dead.


white marble can raise the pH of the water - its almost never a good idea to add non-aquarium or non-pond substrate without signifigant testing first. I would remove the marble if you want the fishes to live.

If the ponds not really really big - say 10x6 and 3 feet deep - it will probably still be too small for those fish.
Especially if it has the type of "pond filters" often sold at Home Depot, Petco, etc -- most of them are really poor biological filters.

I would plan on at least a 180 or 240g tank for the knife fish - a mature knife won't be able to turn around in a 150g tank, most of which are only 18" wide. Oh, and a mature clown knife will probably eat a sub-adult oscar, bichir, or goldfish.

I see you're in Florida - the other issue with a white bottom to your pond is that it makes it easier for egrets and other birds to see (and catch) your fishes. 

If you're south of say Orlando your tropicals _might_ be ok over the winter in the pond (unless you get a serious cold snap). Any further north than that, and one cold winter will kill them all.
There's a reason that Oscars are found in the canals of Miami but not further north, and most of the fish farms that raise tropicals outdoors are all down around Miami or Tampa. When I lived in Melbourne, we had one winter out of 4 that would kill the fish in the aquaculture ponds on campus - and those were fairly resistant species. 
Its not unheard of for a seriously cold winter in Miami to wipe out a huge % of the population in the canals there and in the 'glades.


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