# overheard at the petstore



## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I was at my local petsmart. Impressed for once because there were very few sick-looking fish and only one dead one. Further impressed because when I asked (pure curiosity) about a fish I'd never seen in the store before (spotted african leaf fish) I was advised away from this one, since it would be aggressive to the other fish I have and requires higher temps than I usually keep in my tank. 

But then a little later I heard the same employee tell another customer to clean the decorations in his tank once a month using _bleach_ and that it would be fine if let to dry completely, the bleach would then be harmless. 

I thought bleach was something you only use in a dire situation- to kill disease, disinfect? That if you use it must rinse a lot afterwards. Never heard it was ok to just let the items dry off. I was a bit surprised to hear that recommendation!


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

I use bleach all the time to clean rocks and decorations, even wood. Rinse well, or let dry completely as in the case with wood. It cleans all the scum and algae off. and makes the rocks as fresh as the day they were first put in. Chlorine will gas off. I let buckets of water sit for 24 hours before water changes and don't use any dechlorinator. Never had a problem.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can set hard stuff out in the sunlight and they are usually safe once the scent is totally gone.

I don't bleach routinely, but after a bout of disease, it is a good practice. But doesn't kill everything.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

I once heard my favorite employee at petco saying that this family could have a couple common goldfish in a 10 gallon.....Oh the humanity.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ah, well that is good to know. I have rinsed until the smell was gone to be safe, didn't know just letting it dry would also suffice. I had just never heard it recommended to regularly bleach aquarium items for cleaning!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That strikes me as a bit odd, too. I never considered taking out the decorations to clean them every month. At any rate, bleaching works fine. I would take the extra step of soaking in fresh water after the drying and adding some dechlorinator to get rid of all traces of bleach before returning it to the tank.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Met a woman in Big Als the other day who said she was told there by the staff that she only had to clean the tank every 6-8 months but to do 80 % water change , and clean everything.
Well she did that and everything in the tank died. That was why she was in the store--- to replace what she lost. I was able to tell her about not replacing the filter pad at the same time as a thorough cleaning of gravel etc. And tell her about fish forums for good advice


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

Too big of a water change will shock the fish. Most of us recommend REGULAR partial water changes. The importance IMO is keeping them regular rather than how much. I do nearly 25% weekly and can't remember the last time I had sick fish. I let my water sit out and dechlorinate naturally.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2015)

I do 50% water changes every week. I think weekly water changes do keep the tank from crashing and having to be cycled again. Yeah, I have to start over with my 55 gallon tank because I let it get out of whack.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I hear you. I cannot figure why they would give such poor advice to her although to be fair when she says the store told her that she probably meant one individual said it.
I know they do 25% water changes weekly in the store so it would be odd for the advice given to be an accurate rendition of what the company would reccomend. 
They are getting a bad reputation anyway for the poor quality fish they are importing.

In fact a fellow who is fed up with the fish carrying disease at Big Als, has started his own aquarium store in competition across the road from them! His pride and joy is his personal arowana that is now housed at the entrance to the store. Guess it is one way to expand your hobby! Mts at work in a big way!


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2015)

I am willing to bet that they really don't do 25% water changes. Hence the reason why they have diseased fish. Or they don't quarantine the incoming fish. Also the bad advice is probably because the employees don't have very much knowledge in fishkeeping, if any at all.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

None of the big chains do proper QT. the interconnected system just doesn't allow it. They may take a tank offline for a week after arrival or if they see symptoms, but just plan on doing your own QT. The systems do get water changes because it is a lot easier in a system than in individual tanks. A big clean (take out decor, clean the substrate) is advisable every six months or so, and a big water change will help with high nitrates that have crept up over time. But a sudden big changes after no changes will swing everything enough to shock fish. This is really old school advise that goes back to when most of the new hot fish were malawi mbuna and just topping off instead of changing water was the way to get the salt and mineral levels up where they like them. Now the advice is to change water and add Malawi cichlid salt/buffer.

Once a store gets a disease in its system, its can be hard to eradicate. They aren't about to empty every tank and bleach all the pipes and filters, they just throw in med after med and sometimes they kill it and sometime it develops immunity to med after med and infects fish that come in healthy.

If a store sells you sick fish, stop going there, even if they offer you free fish, its not worth it.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm glad your Big Al's finally got some competition, Mousey. I hope they do a better job.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Most pet stores are changing and getting better because of the complaints that they get from their customers. They get a lot and they will change things around, be better at taking care of their animals and such.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Another thing-- when you make a massive water change, make sure that you aerate the water overnight first before using it. One common fish killer is people making big water changes with water that just came out of the faucet, resulting in wild pH shifts and suffocation.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2015)

TheOldSalt said:


> Another thing-- when you make a massive water change, make sure that you aerate the water overnight first before using it. One common fish killer is people making big water changes with water that just came out of the faucet, resulting in wild pH shifts and suffocation.


Really? The pH shifts and causes suffocation?


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

1. PH shifts due to adding fresh water to either, low established PH or high established PH.

2. Water out of the tap can have low dissolved oxygen levels,
large water change=suffocation, aeration adds oxygen to water.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Hmm I might be slowly killing all of my fish. I do 5 gallons on my 10 gallon, 10 on my 20, 10 on my 29, 10 on my 38. I do these every saturday and sunday around 8:00


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

evil wizard

If you have not had unexplained deaths, I would say your fish are fine.


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## Elliott225 (Jan 9, 2014)

I'll argue this. Most municipal water supplies are treated and the pH is 7.0 or neutral. Also, in the treating the water it is aerated. Here in Memphis we have artesian wells. The city only aerates, chlorinates, and fluoridates. You can get a report on the water quality from your local water supplier. In fact they are required to send out a report at least once a year. That's my understanding. 

Now if you are getting water from a private well, then there may be some issues there. Usually I hear it's high pH and hard water.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have lived in the Cleveland area since 1945...i have never seen a water quality report sent out to residents..but residents may obtain a report at any time..
different areas of the country will have higher or lower PH reading coming out of the tap...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have municipal water from a lake, but once I had a "bad water change" that had all my fish gasping at the surface. Either the water in the pipes wasn't aerated or the Prime + high nitrates in the water used up the air. Dropped the water level overnight and all were fine, but it can be a real issue. Here they do try to buffer to 7.5 by adding NaOH, but it doesn't stay stable. Water is so soft, it drops off fairly quickly. We do get a 1 page report in the mail yearly.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

@loha I did the math and if you lived there since 1945 then that puts you at 70. Is your birthday coming up?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

yep...Thursday..


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Elliott,

PH swing example.

Lake Tanganyikan Cichlids do best in a PH of 8 and this is a established PH level in our tanks. 

If the water out of the tap is 7 / nuetral and you do a large water change, the PH of the tank will drop.

Lake Tanganyikan cichlids are not used to rapid changes.

Same would apply to established low PH level tanks but in the opposite direction.


Now as far as water being aerated by the city, unless you are doing your water changes directly from the water department, 
take into account the water sits in holding tanks, distribution centers, water lines and or your hot water tank, all leading to lower
dissolved oxygen levels.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

lohachata said:


> yep...Thursday..


Angelclown said it was sometime this month and I wanted to know what day it was. Happy early birthday.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Happy Birthday!

Also bear in mind that water gets pressurized in the pipes. This can lead to some pretty wonky dissolved gas ratios. You've probably seen how when you fill up a new tank straight from the faucet you get lots of little bubbles on the sides? Released from the pressure, the gas is liberated, forming bubbles. Those bubbles can be oxygen, nitrogen, CO2, methane, chlorine, ammonia, hydrogen, or who knows what. It also wreaks havoc on the pH, since the pH is regulated by the ratio of its dissolved gases and ions. This is why when you measure the pH of water right from the faucet you get one reading, but if you let it sit overnight you often get a different pH the next day, after the gases have rebalanced.

All in all, your very best practice is to always let new water sit out overnight before use, preferably with aeration. This solves numerous problems before they ever start.


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## Elliott225 (Jan 9, 2014)

Depending on where the water exits the faucet, if you get your water from a hose bib you get little or no bubbles. Water from a kitchen faucet has an aerator on it. That causes bubbles.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

You're a day early salt.


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