# Can't get rid of fin rot at all.



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

This feels like a losing battle.

My new betta, about a month old, has lost about 25% of his fins. When I bought him his fins were 100%.

He is in a heated 5 1/2 gallon tank.

No filter but 90% of the water is changed every other day. Ammonia is always 0. Dechlorinator is used. PH out of the tap is 7.5 and when I test the tank it is around 6.5. 

I clean the tank with every change, water is always crystal clear. 

I have been treating him with Melafix, seems to help a little.

I had two other bettas and they both had the same problem. They would lose about 50% of their fins and nothing I did helped. 

My cousin lives in the same town, about 2 minutes from here. Her betta never has fin rot and she keeps it in a smaller bowl and changes the water less frequently. 

The only test I haven't done is hardness. I am stumped.


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## anasfire23 (Jan 19, 2005)

In a 5 1/2 gallon tank you really don't need to be changing the water that often. He's not getting a chance to foul up the water at all. It may be caused by stress from the frequent water changes so cut down to doing a 60% change once a week and add 1/2tsp per gallon of sea salt or aquarium salt to the water at each water change whist still adding melafix.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

I agree, to much water being changed to often. I would do a 30% w/c every 3 or 4 days. 
I would look into getting one of these,
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produ...ll&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Waterchanges aren't the problem.......... directly.

PH of 7.5 out of the tap and 6.5 in the tank is not good. PH shock will stress out your fish; even kill him.

You need to store your water for changes at least 2 days before using.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2007)

Try aging the water and if that doesn't work, you could try Jungle Fungus Eliminator. Even though its called "fungus eliminator" it treats severe fungus and bacterial infections. Even though your bettas fin rot is caused by stress, it could still help. I used it on my betta who had about 50% tail fin loss after being stressed and it worked very well to help get his fins growing healthy again. I'd use the meds as a last resort though.


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## jdwoodschild (Jan 22, 2007)

Either age your water (Ph differance is ALOT, a HUGE differance to your fish), or buy your water from the store, by the gallon. You can go to walmart and buy the plastic tubs there, whatever size would be good for you, fill it with water, and use the water out of that to do the water changes. Then fill it up with more water when you are done, and put it somewhere out of the way until you need it again.

Also, maybe try putting a pinch of aquarium salt into the tank. That will help kill fungus in the tank. Do you have any Indian Almond leaves? if you do, put one or two in with him, or get some betta spa for the fish. That will help your fish stay destressed and happy.


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Well that is some very useful information. 

I will make sure I age the water from now on. 

Thanks.


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## rollntider (Feb 12, 2007)

I use those red sea / azoo palm filters on my 2.5 gallon tanks and I only need to change the water once every 5 days. It has flow control (and I use a sponge on the inlet.) No issues with my bettas. I think the advice of aging the water and a small filter would not hurt. I put a sponge on the inlet tube and use it similar to a sponge filter. Just rinse the sponge every so often in dechlorinated water.


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

I bought a 5 gallon filter tonight. I think that would just be better overall. 

I took 6 pieces of filter media from my main tank and put it in the new filter for the betta. 

That should hopefully be enough to cycle the tank. I don't know I have never used a filter on a tank this small. Is it even possible to have ammonia at 0?


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Damon said:


> Waterchanges aren't the problem.......... directly.
> 
> PH of 7.5 out of the tap and 6.5 in the tank is not good. PH shock will stress out your fish; even kill him.
> 
> You need to store your water for changes at least 2 days before using.


I have a bucket of water than has been out of the tap two full days now and the ph has gone from 7.5 to 7. 

So it will probably take it close to 5 days to get down to 6, i'm guessing.

What I don't get is when I was doing 90% changes every two days, how was it possible that the water had enough time to go all the way down to a ph of 6?

Just curious, do PH buffers do more harm than good?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> do PH buffers do more harm than good


It depends, certainly its very easy to kill fish with improperly used buffers and the smaller the tank, the harder to keep it stable. And never mess with pH without looking at hardness, too, they are interdependant. Its pH changes that are hard on fish. So if you can't stablilize the pH yourself, you could try Seachem alkaline regulator (pH=7.5). Never use pH up and pH down, they affect pH instantly with no long term buffering.



> how was it possible that the water had enough time to go all the way down to a ph of 6?


Two things that can make pH drop in a tank are organic acids (crud from decay-goes with high nitrate readings) or low buffering capacity (hardness).

Water companies add just enough buffer to bring the water to neutal to slightly alkaline (so it won't affect pipes), but it gets used up quickly.

Betta splendens likes water harness to 25 degrees dGH and 6-8 pH. 

Get your pet store to give you a hardness reading on your water. If its very soft, you can add "cichlid salts" or put crushed coral in the filter to bring the hardness up. 

Salting and buffering water every day for an uncycled tank is a real drag (and risky, if you ever mess up the amounts), but if you slow down your water changing without buffering (assumming your tap water is very soft), your pH could easily fall below 6 in a week (this does erode fins). Yes, you can cycle a five and keep the ammonia at 0, but larger tanks are definitely easier to cycle, moving old filter media is a great idea. 

Be careful with the aged water, betta are sensitive to tempature changes. 

I recommend that you get a hardness test ASAP and if its very low, try increasing it into the moderate range. If raising the hardness does not stabilize your pH, then try a pH "regulator". If your water is hard and you pH is still dropping, I have no idea what to do.


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## jdwoodschild (Jan 22, 2007)

Aging your water is the best thing to DO for your fish because it gives the water a chance to stabalize. We use straight cold water here and heat and age it over two days with a little wally world heater. The easiest thing to do and best thing to do is age the water for a day or two then using that for your betta. That, and how much are you feeding your fish? over feeding and too much organic crap will cause the ph to swing like that. Try doing a partial water change after you feed at night, and feed before you do a complete/80-90%. That will help keep organic matter out of the water that might be making the PH fluctuate like it is.


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

The water has been out of the tap 4 days now and it has gone down to 6.8-7 from 7.5 . 

Still has a some ways to go before 6. 

I wish it would go down quicker. I bought some bottled water and the PH was 7 I believe.


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

emc7 said:


> It depends, certainly its very easy to kill fish with improperly used buffers and the smaller the tank, the harder to keep it stable. And never mess with pH without looking at hardness, too, they are interdependant. Its pH changes that are hard on fish. So if you can't stablilize the pH yourself, you could try Seachem alkaline regulator (pH=7.5). Never use pH up and pH down, they affect pH instantly with no long term buffering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I did a GH and KH test and came up with 1 degree of dKH, dGH, 17.9 ppm. I only needed one drop of the test solution for each test.

Ok, now I have a cichlid tank, 46 gallons, Mbuna. It has been running for about two years now. The water is always crystal clear and I never had one sick fish ever. I use a GH buffer, been using it since day one along with a PH buffer. I tested the GH tonight and, like the tap water test, it shows 1 dGH, 17.9 ppm. What's wrong here? Shouldn't it be higher? 

Just to see I added some of the buffer directly into a test tube, added water to the line and did a GH test. The same results as the other tests. 

I think I am failing to understand some part of this or i'm doing something wrong.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, an african cichlid tank should have more hardness than that. 200 ppm or 7 degrees hardness for Malawi. Shake your buffer, the solids may have settled out. Then verify your test results with another test or test kit. If you do a lot of water changes, you may end up with unbuffered water by dilution and if you don't do enough water changes the organic acids build up, use up the buffer and crash the pH even in a well-established tank.


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

emc7 said:


> Yes, an african cichlid tank should have more hardness than that. 200 ppm or 7 degrees hardness for Malawi. Shake your buffer, the solids may have settled out. Then verify your test results with another test or test kit. If you do a lot of water changes, you may end up with unbuffered water by dilution and if you don't do enough water changes the organic acids build up, use up the buffer and crash the pH even in a well-established tank.


Ok so I figured out what the problem was. 

Basically from the side the test tube appeared green but looking down from the top it was orange. And I can only tell in direct sunlight. They need to make these tests more clear. 

Anyway, the tap water went to green with just one drop, meaning 1 degree of hardness from my tap water.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

General hardness or Carbonate Hardness? I missed that.


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## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Damon said:


> General hardness or Carbonate Hardness? I missed that.


General Hardness. 

I believe the Carbonate Hardness had the same results, but I will have to double check tomorrow during the day when I can get good light.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

From what I read about betta (don't have any), if you use the same buffered water that you use for the cichlids (assuming you buffer in a bucket), it should be happy. I'm having good success with goodieds in my Malawi buffered water. Buffering is a pita but I find it necessary for a lot of fish when your tapwater is rainwater like mine.


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