# New Tank for my Malawis...some issues



## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

So...This is sort of a slightly amusing story as well as a couple of questions that I was hoping some of you might be able to answer. Feel free to treat this post however you wish... It's a long post so I don't expect people to neccessarily read it all the way through.

So, I got a new tank as a Christmas gift from my parents. I set it up right next to my current tank. So far I have transfered one of the fish over. And what a pain doing so was. I couldn't have put up more of a fight myself. 

So here's where the fun begins. The fish can see eachother through the glass panels of each tank, but they obviously don't understand that they can't get through the glass. I feed the fish in the new tank, and one of the fish in the old tank slams nose first into the glass. He hits hard enough that I can actually hear a faint *thud*. Should I be concerned with this behavior or laughing at it? The fish in the new tank is starring at my yellow labs as if he already misses bullying them. He even tried to get to them at first, bumping into the glass many times.

Now a couple of things really have me concerned. I want to keep my two yellow labs in the old tank for now (for various reasons), but eventually want to put them all in the new tank. I fear that the yellow labs may suffer from "last in the tank gets bullied to death" syndrome. I can't take the yellow labs out of the new tank right away because I am currently medicating them for what I think is popeye. They are also mating, another process I do not wish to disturb. On top of that, they really look like they could use some time apart from the tank bullies.

Now it isn't like the yellow labs havent brought this on themselves. They snatch up most of the food before the other fish even get a chance! I actually have to overfeed them to get any food down to the other fish. This is another problem that is going to get in the way of my goal of putting them all into the same tank. 

Now my other question is... is it safe to keep a glass thermometer inside the tank when there is the possibility of fish accidentally ramming it during a "battle"? I think the glass thermometer is better looking than LCD, from my experience more accurate, and it's old school. But I have a feeling that a broken thermometer would lead to floating fish.

I'll post pictures tomorrow so you can comment on (or laugh at) my setup.

Edit: Can you spot the fish?


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## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

First off you'll need a bunch more rocks/caves for hiding places if they're getting bullied. The first fish will claim the tank as his own and will defend it when new fish are introduced. If you put the rest of your fish in at once it should help, the first one won't be able to zero in on one particular fish so the agression will be spread out among the others. How many fish do you have? How big is your tank (I'm guessing 20-29) and filter? If you add your extra rocks and rearrange the tank when you put the rest of the fish in that would also help. Makes everyone stake new territory.
The thermometer should be fine. Not to say that it couldn't break, but they can take a beating. If it breaks I don't think the fluid would harm your fish (someone help me on that one), I know its not mercury. I'm sure more people that know more than myself will chime in to help also :mrgreen: .



> Edit: Can you spot the fish?


Right side in the plant?


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Oops... I guess it was a mistake then putting the most aggressive fish in first. I was just worried about ammonia going to high in the new tank if I put them all in at once. Also, like I said, the yellow labs are breeding...and I figured putting them in the new tank right away would interfere. Now that I have three tanks I figure why not save some of the fry and try raising them? 

I believe alchohal is used in thermometers. Not sure if there is enough in there to kill the fish or not...the stores I've been to use the glass ones, but I've never asked about their durability. 

The aquarium is a 29 gallon with a whisper 30 power filter. I added some gravel from the old aquarium hoping to jump start the biological filtration. There are four fish altogether, all about the same size (between two and three inches). The guy at the fish store reccomended putting an aqua clear "biomax" packet behind the filter cartrige to boost biological filtration, even though it already has a device for bacteria to collect on (which is in front of the filter cartrige). Does this make sense? 

As for hiding places, I'm going to add more of them from the old tank as I put more of the fish in.


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## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

> Does this make sense?


Yeah.

Your whispers bio foam should be able to handle your four with no problem. If you get many more you'll need to up grade on your filter (bio load). I wouldn't add too many anyway, not much of a foot print(bottom area) in a 29. I run two whisper 60s on my 55gal mbuna tank with 8 cichlids(5"-2"), 1 cae(5"), 1 red tail shark(4") and 1 silver tip shark(8"). I kinda need to get rid of the silver tip, he's too big for the tank and will only get bigger.

this is a old picture


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Thanks for your responses!

I thought about adding another fish, but the guy I talked to at the fish store said that I would have to add two or more at a time to prevent bullying. I can't see having that many cichlids in that tank. Especially not when they are full grown...And I'm planning on leaving the other tanks open for raising the Yellow labs' babies. 

That is a really nice tank by the way. Where did you get all of those rocks from?


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## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

> That is a really nice tank by the way. Where did you get all of those rocks from?


Thanks! Most of the rocks came from a landscaping place, others from a local creek. I boiled them first to kill anything on them. Not to say it makes them 100% safe, stuff could leach out of them, if there is anything in them anyway.



> Quote:
> Edit: Can you spot the fish?
> 
> Right side in the plant?


So was that it?


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

That is correct. He's just a bit hard to see cause the picture isn't very high quality. He's one of those "striped purple fish". I have the scientific name written down somewhere...

I think he's a "Pseudotropheus demasoni" (or something very similar):

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/p_demasoni.php


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## aquaticlover25 (Jan 7, 2006)

you need more plants and caves


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Well, I put one of my other cichlids in the tank. I'm not sure what he's called but he is brown and bigger than the purple fish, but with similar fin/ tail patterns and nose shape.

There was a brief battle, in which the brown fish seemed to win (because now the purple fish runs from him). Since then, the purple fish seems to have a dark spot on his upper lip. Is this a serious injury? How long would it take to heal?

I put in all of the rocks and decorations I could come up with. The fish seem to follow eachother around instead of choosing a side of the tank. They must think: "If that fish is looking at it, it must be good" or something, because they will not leave eachother alone. 

Now I guess it would be a pretty bad idea to put the yellow labs in the new tank...


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Keep checking ammonia/ nitrite levels!


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Yep, Ammonia is somewhere between 0 and .25 ppm, and Nitrite is still reads 0. I guess that means it will still be a while before the tank is "cycled", right?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Correct... Just be carefull adding new fish... Good luck!


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

they might be following each other around because of the small area of the floor of your tank, instead of splitting the tank into 2 territories, one fish has claimed the whole tank. watch for one of them to hover on top of the tank, trying to get out of sight from the more dominant one. and wait till it cycles before adding anything else.


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Another funny thing to share: The fish have completely stopped fighting! In fact, the purple fish even hangs out under the broken flower pot that the brown fish just spent a whole day digging out! I seriously don't believe it. I thought for sure the purple fish would be dead if the brown fish caught him there. He still stays out of the brown fish's way, however. 

Unfortunately, not everything is working out perfectly. The male yellow lab is now acting aggressively towards the female. Not sure why, but he never did that with the other fish in the tank.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

You have a problem. African cichlids ( mbuna ) need to be in large groups to disperse aggression. In a small group a weaker fish is often singled out and killed. You can't put a large group in because your tank is not cycled. To further complicate matters, a 29 gal. is really too small for these cichlids. My advise would be to put all your fish back in the original aquarium, cycle the new one and then think about residents for the new tank. Good luck.


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Thanks for the advice. I guess I've got alot more work to do then...

But In my defense... The fish store guy told me I could put them in that tank! Well shortly thereafter, they went out of business, so you never know about those people.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Yep, you tried to get advise from someone you thought you could trust..... Sorry... But you are in the right place now! BTW, how big is your original tank?


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Sorry to say my original tank was actually smaller. I believe it is a 22 gallon. The base area is not much smaller than the new tank however.

It's kind of funny, because my parents asked me what they should buy me for christmas, to which I responded "a bigger fish tank". They must not have known that the 29 was so similar to the one I already have. 

Luckily, my fish have sort of calmed down a bit, in both fish tanks. Not sure how their behavior might change though. I'm eventually going to get a 55 gallon or so, but right now my spending money is in the negatives...lol. 

For now I'm going to try to find some more rocks to put in there so my fish tank looks a little more like your guys' instead of a looking like a random collection of decorations. Speaking of rocks, I hear that you are supposed to check for calcium or something before using them. Does this matter considering that I already am using coral sand as a substrate to keep the PH at 8.0? Could new rocks alter the PH further or not?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Some rocks do raise the ph. Not a problem for you. You want the high PH. In my opinion, you need to take back the cichlids that you have.... Look into some of the smaller Lake Tanganyika cichlids, maybe "shell dwellers". You can still have an awesome tank. Just choose different residents and get it "cycled" before you start. Good luck.


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

Are you sure it is safe to take them back? I've had them for like 8 months now. Do you think a store will even take them? They are like triple the size they were when I got them. All the ones I see in the stores are like tiny in comparison. Besides, they won't get to watch TV at the fish shop! (funny thing, they seem to really like watching TV).

I looked into the fish you mentioned and they do look pretty neat, but I'm just not so sure about getting rid of my current fish right now. Besides, I've been monitoring my fish and they are no longer fighting. 

With two fish per tank, I've actually seen almost no agression after the first couple days. I'm not doubting your advise, I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. Are my fish perhaps behaving alright because they already "know eachother"??? 

Once again, Thanks for the advise. Are there any good, detailed books on these fish so that I can educate myself more thoroughly? Honestly, If I were to ask all of the questions I had here, I would probably be banned for posting too much or something.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Eight months... Oh yeah, they came out of an existing tank. Well, it could be that since they grew up together, they have gotten use to being together. So if you could just get that second tank cycled, maybe you would be good to go. Two malawi's in a tank just seems like such a waste to me.... I'm sorry, but sometimes I'm guilty of trying to nudge people into seeing things my way... LOL. I can imagine a colony of about eight Lamprologus multifasciatus or L. ocellatus in your tank. They are among the most interesting little fish I have ever kept. Each male will define and defend a territory and the females will reside in the territory of one of the males forming a harem of sorts. Interactions are very interesting. They live in shells and they will try to take them away from each other or they might even cover a shell up so that it can't be used by someone else. There are some good books, but just do a websearch. Tons of info... and BTW, ask all the questions you want. I promise you won't get banned for that...


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## pyrofish (May 18, 2005)

I sure have learned alot from you man, thanks! 

I'm working on getting a bigger tank, but it probably just won't happen right away. I'm thinking a "corner tank" since I happen to have one last corner left in my bedroom.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

New tank... that's great. Join the club..... Come on pleeeeeease. Just one more tank. I promise.. just one more tank... LOL. Try to get one in the 55 gal. range and you can get a colony of malawis going and use your other tanks for something else. Just remember when shopping for a tank, that the footprint ( length and width ) is more important than height. "more surface area".


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