# Guppy Breeding Adventures



## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

So, in the photos attached (granted that they attached properly) I have three Black AOC(any other color) brothers that I obtained from Lotsoffish, along with the black females he sent, and the other random fancy females that I've obtained.

This is gonna be a fun(hopefully) blog about my guppy breeding adventures!!
SO, here's the story SO FAR:

The package arrived today (stuffed in the mail box, even though it SAYS on the package that its to be delivered at the door with a signature) And everyone was ALIVE!!!

I payed for 7 black AOC, three male, four female. What I got was:
3 AOC males
5 females
3 juvie (presumable one male, 2 female, but who knows)
1 Snail who is hiding, but extremely friendly once you put your hand in the tank
4 bleeding heart platy that are just freaking ADORABLE 
And a BUNCH of food 

So, after cursing the mailman silently :chair: (and not so silently when I got home) I put each bag (they were separated by sex and species) to float.

Mr. Pete had instructed people to just float them, then net them out into the tank before, so I went ahead and planned on doing that. 

Problem was, once the guppies were set to float in the breeding tank, three of my females started giving birth!!! Then I looked in the bag and two of the females I had just GOT started to give birth!! 

I gave up and just netted everyone and threw them in the tank. 

12 hour later and everyone is swimming happily and eating vigorously. Gary the snail is hiding. The babies are hiding with him.

I'm excited for how all of the babies will turn out, and will be posting picks of their cuteness when they're free of the mama breeding tank.  :fun:

Hopefully soon, I'll get the chance to take everyone out individually to my photo bowl and take some good shots that aren't so blurry. 

Brother 1 at a distance








The harem of girls that I have for the boys








The female that was top dog until recently








Close-up of brother 1 and 2


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## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

That black male is fabulous. And the females are nice too! Good luck!


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

good luck! Post pics soon!


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Betta man said:


> good luck! Post pics soon!










[/IMG]

HAHA!! I figured it out! So, these are two of the brothers. I really don't know how you guys get such good pics. Maybe its camera quality. These are all taken with an ipod. Problem is, I break cameras. 
OH! But here's a video I took!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPJIFwjhq0w&feature=g-upl&context=G22d9d20AUAAAAAAAAAA


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

I've removed the Blondes (red) females from the breeding program, as they're egg layers. Lyretail female has been removed in her old age as well. Hopefully I'll get a chance to get some quality pics of each individual female soon.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Wow, I never saw a guppy with so much black on the body. I've said 'no more guppies', but pics like that are tempting.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

This strain is a variation of the black moscows they breed (not entirely sure if these are from Mr. Conrad, or Mr. Pete) And will throw the AOC that they show, along with solid blacks. I'm obviously very excited for the fry that will come from these boys.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Was gone for a day, came back and new fry in the breeding tank!! Looked in the fry tank and Gary is apparently more feminine, because he had babies!! Only one batch of babies in the tank, but may be more in the breeder. 
I took him out to treat breeder as a freak case of ich came up. Does anyone know if 'Quick cure' for ick and protozoan parasites is harmful to Ramshorn snails and its eggs?


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Check to see if it says that it is a copper treatment on the bottle. I'm pretty sure that it is Malachite Green and maybe Formalin, but just check to make sure there are no copper ingredients on it.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

bmlbytes said:


> Check to see if it says that it is a copper treatment on the bottle. I'm pretty sure that it is Malachite Green and maybe Formalin, but just check to make sure there are no copper ingredients on it.


Both Malachite and Formalin. I'm to assume these are safe?

Is copper and salt the only things that can harm snails?


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## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

Whom did you buy these from? I want some bad.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

ZebraDanio12 said:


> Whom did you buy these from? I want some bad.


I got these from Lotsoffish on aquabid. This particular batch ran me about 70 bucks.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

ZebraDanio12 said:


> Whom did you buy these from? I want some bad.


He has some in a bulk auctions right now

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1324954036


(I also just got 2nd gen of his red snakeskin strain this morning from Victoria Kamenetsky which are very nice)


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Ich cured after 2 days of treatment. No losses. (Really was a freak case. Never had such a fast outbreak-cure) 

Moved the red snakeskin to the grow-out tank till I can see their full traits. There seem to be four males and 3 females of the ones sent. 

I now have a good 15 broods of Ramshorn eggs, 1 1/2 of which hatched today (only 10 days later)

Inventory:
In the breeding tank-
3 AOC males
2 Cobra females
1 H/B yellow female
1 Snakeskin yellow female
3 Black females
3 Juvies (assuming black as they came with the AOC)
Guppy grass in the tank. Will soon be Ramshorns in their once the broods have grown big enough not to be eaten.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Ok. Random death in tank? Check.
Had a VERY strange day of cleaning the tanks. Found one of the plants in my breeding tank...well...it appeared to be EATING one of the females. >> Apparently there were FOUR black females in there, and not three. She wasn't dead for more than a day, I could tell that. But I could find no sure cause of death. (Other than the freaking Guppy Grass apparently attempting to absorb her)
After doing a partial water change of this tank, I went to clean the community tank, and found that my largest female had a large freaking wound on the side of her body. I separated out the two males that are known for biting and put her in the hospital cube, but I'm not sure if she will make it. *sigh*


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Removed everyone from tank and into 10 gallon hospital treating with Melafix. Mouth Fungus(bacterial) I believe. Seeing as dead female had what looked like an eaten/frayed tail, and the others now have a white fuzz on their mouths and are lethargic. 
Nobody was new to tank except for the red snakeskins that were BRIEFLY in the tank. However, the Guppy Grass was from their bag, which could have been holding the bacteria. *face to desk*


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

No losses yet. Stopping the Melafix treatment in favor of a combination of Erythromycin and Triple Sulfa.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Treatment successful. Did a 50 % water change on breeding tank today. One of the red cobra had 18 fry that I caught. Set up a new 10 gallon, bare bottomed with an air stone, filled half way and placed new fry in. Took fry out of the (then) fry tank and placed them in the new one. Turned old fry tank into an all female tank. (with one male)
Watching the AOC males flirt with the females again makes me happy.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

So, now that the tanks are all up and running and HEALTHY again, I'm pleased to say that I have new fry!!! My snakeskin female, who was impregnated by a very nice, if older, black delta male that had a tail that was similar to those butterfly you see with the big eyes on their wings. Three red 'eyes' on his finnage, made him quite striking! Unfortunately, I got him later on in his life, and his tail was a bit too big for his body to support in his elder age.
ANYWAYS, very excited to see how these fry turn out. She's in the tank with the Black AOC males, so most likely her next batch will be theirs! There are too many fry for JUST her to be dropping, so either my younger cobra female, or one of the aoc females is dropping as well! Over all, a very happy day.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Netted out all fry, turned back 5 minutes later, and they dropped more! ><

Also, set up half of another 10 gallon (my female grow out) so that my snakeskin females and my green leopard male could flirt all they wanted. Really excited for their fry as well! 
When my other tank divider come in the mail, will be splitting the AOC tank so that I can breed my tuxedo and my blonde females together. But, for now, they're all floating in a breeder in my 20 gallon.
This weekend(hopefully) I'll be going to home depo to pick up some 4x6's and some cinderblocks to make a multiple tank stand (Pete Mang style!!)


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Just got my box of fish stuff in the mail! Yay kensfish! Looking forward to seeing the tanks when they're done. List of stuff to do today, in preparation for the new trio of Japanese Red Grass and Platinum Mosaic. Adding dividers to my 20 tall and 10, adding sponge filters to the 10 (first time using) aside from the normal water changes all around.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Got my box of fish yesterday. The Japanese male is STRIKING, but tail got messed up in shipping. :/ Platinums were not Platinums. A mistake happened when they packed the box so I got red mosaics instead. The breeder is sending me another Jap. Male, and a trio of my choice, as he doesn't have any more Platinums. Very nice guy.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

The Japanese male strutting for the camera
























He was quite a good poser! Unlike my AOC








But my cobra/mosaic female was feeling frisky in her new tank!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

A wound from ich could get infected and get bigger. There are only a few real fish-eating plants, but several dense plant will snag weak sick fish. My last case of ich was an unheated tank of endlers that suddenly got cool. formalin is nasty stuff, but it is very effective on several external disease organism.

Likely you are still facing shipping stress, but check your water, temp, ammonia, nitrite, hardness make sure all is still well.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

emc7 said:


> A wound from ich could get infected and get bigger. There are only a few real fish-eating plants, but several dense plant will snag weak sick fish. My last case of ich was an unheated tank of endlers that suddenly got cool. formalin is nasty stuff, but it is very effective on several external disease organism.
> 
> Likely you are still facing shipping stress, but check your water, temp, ammonia, nitrite, hardness make sure all is still well.


I heard that there was an aquatic bladderwort (Utricularia) But what I had was advertised as guppy grass (Najas Guadalupensis). Whatever I had ended up being a bacterial infection, as a combination of triple sulfa and EM cleared it up.

I hope that its just shipping stress. All my stats are perfect, and I acclimated them properly. (though shipper said there was no need) 
Had to pour each trio into one bag as they were shipped separately, because the poor things had so little water they could barely move (from the leaks)
The females of my Jap. are still looking skittish, but ate a bit today. While the females from the trio I WASN'T supposed to get are swimming with their whole bodies.
Really curious what makes the females swim with their whole bodies. Could it be an individual thing? I have three females in a tank with other fish where they are the only ones that do it and show no signs of anything wrong. None have died that do this. So maybe its just a thing they do?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Wiggling their whole bodies to move often means they are swimming with clamped fins. Clamped fins means an unhappy fish, but doesn't tell you what's wrong.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

The shipper was full of it. The only time you don't need to acclimate is when you take original tank water with the fish and immediately move both to a new container.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There is an ongoing argument about whether it is best to get fish into clean water ASAP or slowly acclimate them to different water. Ideally, you'd match your QT tank to the bag water, plop the fish into clean, matching water, and then acclimate slowly to match the tank where the fish are going. I know for a fact that a guppy plopped into very soft water from hard will likely be dead by morning. But people with really hard water can likely drop guppies from anywhere in safely, so you will get different opinions because of different experiences.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

I have very hard water. I heard that water ph lowers in shipping (pete mang told me that his does, and that all you have to do is add a bubbler to the bag and it get it back up to normal in an hour, which kinda makes no sense to me)

I checked on the fish this morning, and the females of my grass are still pretty skittish. Looked over at the mosaic females and the one that _doesn't_ have a messed up tail appears to be shedding either her scales, her slime coat, or something. Its like when a human has dry skin and you see flakes coming off. (the only thing I can compare it to.) She looks like she'll be dead by the end of the day. -_- I added melafix to maybe make her feel a bit more comfortable...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

As I understand it the Carbon dioxide exhaled by the fish during the trip drops the pH in the same way as bubbling CO2 in a planted tank does because CO2 in water is carbonic acid. Since ammonia is less toxic at low pH, when you open the bag, the pH rises and the ammonia can suddenly turn deadly. 

Thus, the thing to do, proponents say, is to pour the bag into a net and plop the fish into clean water to avoid the now deadly ammonia in the bag. 

How much of an issue this is depends on how long the fish have been in the bag and whether any 'ammonia detoxifiers' are in use. And it shouldn't happen in breathable bags that allow gas exchange.

I have opened bags, taken one whiff and done the net plop thing. Also when fish in the bag looked distressed.

The issue is that plopping fish in different water is dangerous too.

Peeling skin, fin erosion and cloudy eyes can result from low pH. Swimming upside down followed by death can result from sudden change.

Since survival is better plopping into harder or saltier water and salt reduces ich and other external parasites, some of the chains keep a significant amount of salt in their water. But when a customer takes the fish home, and fails to acclimate it, it dies within a few days. 

IMO stores should use locally water unless its clearly posted otherwise.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

emc7 said:


> As I understand it the Carbon dioxide exhaled by the fish during the trip drops the pH in the same way as bubbling CO2 in a planted tank does because CO2 in water is carbonic acid. Since ammonia is less toxic at low pH, when you open the bag, the pH rises and the ammonia can suddenly turn deadly.
> 
> Thus, the thing to do, proponents say, is to pour the bag into a net and plop the fish into clean water to avoid the now deadly ammonia in the bag.
> 
> ...


So, then since I placed her in water with higher ph she can either get better from it, or croak because of the change? -Seems like a no win. Lol


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

The fish-generated CO2 is only an issue in a small volume of water when the fish is there for an extended period of time. The CO2 dissolves to form H2CO3, carbonic acid. Adding the bubbler should drive off the CO2, increasing the pH. Problem is, it probably happens fast enough to be stressful.

If your fish is in the bag 24 hours or less there shouldn't be a problem.

I always acclimate by emptying the bag into a small bucket (2 qt bucket), draining it down to just enough to cover the fish all the way across the bucket. I start adding water from the tank gradually. How fast I add depends on the fish and how close the water is to what I have. If the temps are radically different I will float the bag first. I have never drip acclimated even going from fresh to low-end brackish and I don't generally lose fish for acclimation reasons.

However, discus, marine fish, or endangered fish, I would probably drip acclimate.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

The problem was, there wasn't even 3 ounces of water in the bag. There was maybe 1 ounce. (all the bags had major leaking going on) It was in the bag for at least 3 days. I may end up losing the poor thing anyway. 
I seriously don't like the way this person ships. He's shipping me another trio and a replacement male, but I don't have full confidence that they will make it.
He double bags, but he doesn't bag them in opposite directions like most do. Just one over the other the same direction tied with one rubberband. The bags each had 1 fish in them, but they were all shoved tight together in the box with nothing between them to give cushioning... I can see how _maybe_ this could work for some people, but not the way he bagged them.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Well, that female died. :/ She wasn't gasping for air, but was resting on the bottom, not moving, for a good 2 hours before dying. I tried netting her closer to the top of the tank, as she couldn't breath when she couldn't move, and she breathed normal when at the top, before dying. 
I feel pretty horrible, as I really don't know what I could have done differently. I was very distressed when finding them all in leaking bags, and probably traumatized them more by pouring them into one container (per trio) and floating them. Apparently should have just netted them and placed them in tank?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

yes, after 3 days in bags, the bag water is likely bad enough to be worth the risk of just putting them in the tank. It is a bit of a no win. But hard water favors the toss in also. Most fish adjust much better going to harder. Likewise, dumping into warmer water is far safer than dumping fish into cooler water.

Shipping with breather bags, "bag buddies" or Prime, & heat packs really helps a fish's chances, but getting squashed by the carrier is always a risk. Talk to the shipper about the condition of the bags and maybe he will try padding around the fish or even double boxing next time. Most of us learn by trial and error.

Less water is usually better, you get more oxygen in the bag and in the water, but the fish can't dry out. Few sellers will guarantee any fish not shipping overnight, so if you are getting replacement, you are getting better service than most.

If fish survive the first couple weeks in your tank, they will usually be fine.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

He's been real nice about sending the replacement, that's for sure. Though, he may be willing to send a replacement because he also messed up the order, I'm not sure.

I read somewhere that a fish can survive 10 days in 3 ounces of water. I'm not entirely sure they'd still be _healthy_ after this, but that's what I read. This is really a 'trail and error' experience for me as well, because I'm paying close attention to what works and what doesn't as I plan on being able to ship one day. (hence, why I was attempting to get some high quality breeders)


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

*blinks*
Well, after the one female died, I noticed the male was harassing the one left, so I separated the males from the females, only the largest female and the one left mosaic started fighting with each other and the smaller grass (who was doing nothing wrong)
I took the mosaic and the smaller grass, and placed them in a plastic breeder divided, because the large female was too big for it. 
It worked well for a night, but then the mosaic flipped back into the main tank and is, again, at it with the big one. :/ Dominance issue much?

On a happier note, my main breeding tank now ONLY has Black AOC in it, and am expecting a large amount of their fry soon.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

No more losses. Shipment of replacements and purple snakeskins is on its way. With the birth of new black AOC around the corner, today has been a pretty good day. 

Oh, and a BIG batch of 100+ fry have been telling me what gender they are today.  I'm pretty much in heaven right now. :angel:


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Preparing for the new shipment. 
AOC female dropped 40+ fry. O.O That's a LOT of fry for one female. Then again, she IS almost 2 inches long...AND she still looks heavily pregnant. I think she'll give birth again in a few weeks.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Fry are all doing good. All 80 of them. Moved their tank to the ground so that I could fill it all the way, seeing as I hadn't been expecting one female to give birth to 40 fry, let alone TWO! 

Currently, the two batches are separated by the second batch being in a breeder box, floating in the fry tank. Monitored very closely, as they were preemies. Will be moving them to new tank after they grow a bit more. 

The preemies are Japanese Blue/Red Grass. Mother is still alive, but has really thinned out. Not really eating, obviously not happy. Hoping for a recovery from her though, she's a VERY nice fish.

AOC fry are growing very nicely. Showing signs of gender already. 9 days old at this point. Mom has squared off again, looks about ready to give birth to the other half of her babies, and her sisters look about ready to join her. ^^' Oh boy. I have my work cut out for me.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

An update
Of the original shipment:
3 AOC males <<<1 dead to fin rot developed from an attack by the mean female. 1 in recovering from a prolapsed rectum.
5 females <<<1 of these died in the columnaris battle. 1 of them is removed from the breeding program due to aggression issues. The three left in breeding have been AMAZING parents
3 juvie <<<2 males, 1 female that are developing nicely
1 Brown Ramshorn Snail <<has laid eggs like crazy, and has so far produced 3 different colors of Ramshorn Snail, leading me to believe it mated before arrival
4 bleeding heart platy <<Rehomed as I needed the tank space

From shipment a few weeks ago. Original:
6 Japanese Red Grass (2 males) <<<<Both males dead, 1 female alive.
3 Purple Snakeskin (1 male) <<1 female alive
3 Red Mosaic(1 male)<<<<1 male alive
Lost a good portion of the shipment in QT, most likely due to TB.

Of Fry:
80 + Black AOC
40~ Japanese Grass (I got lucky with one of the females)


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

So, apparently my fish have taken a note from the AOC and stopped eating their fry. :/ I had come to RELY on them to at least eat SOME of them. An UBUNDANCE of fish now. But, its a happy change from the fish dying off. I put my AOC breeders in a plastic 14 gallon container today, and put my 'cobra' females in the ten gallon with their fry and the mosaic male (fresh out of QT).

The fry are chilling in their separate tanks still, happy as clams.

Japanese Grass are three weeks old tomorrow! They're growing at a SPEEDY rate. They're almost as big as some of my AOC, the youngest of which were born two days before them. They were advertised as fast growing, but I wasn't sure they would, as they are premees.

Also, THREE TYPES of snails from that one ramshorn! If I had to guess at how many...probably around 50. One is just like her, dark brown skin, dark brown shell, one is pink skinned, with a golden shell, and another is dark skinned with leopard spotting! ...now to figure out how to get BLUES from them!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Nice to hear some good news for a change.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

emc7 said:


> Nice to hear some good news for a change.


Seriously! It was depressing there for a while!


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Alice (My biggest AOC) gave birth tonight to over 60 fry. *gulps* Last time it was 40 Alice! 40!
I've decided to move 3 AOC females into the juvi tank to have a break from breeding for a while. I'm sure they'll enjoy being among more fish. Considering there are well over 100 of them now. *facepalm*

So, in the tank that they leave behind, I'm going to split up my Jap. fry for faster growth. They turn a month old in 5 days, and have easily out-grown my AOC fry, despite being premature. I'm able to tell male from female in them already. Still no color though...


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Split 36 Jap fry between the 2 10 gallons, and culled the rest, whom had deformations of their spines. Likely due to the complications with the birth.

Searched the 60 fry from Alice, but could find NO deformities. Officially over-stocked. >< REALLY need to move out soon, so that I can expand.


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

In the beginning, females like Alice make you jump for joy. By the third and fourth drops, you want to strangle them or put them on birth control!


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

iheartfish:) said:


> In the beginning, females like Alice make you jump for joy. By the third and fourth drops, you want to strangle them or put them on birth control!


EXACTLY! It wouldn't be so bad if she would do the normal guppy thing and eat some of them!!


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Got a 20G Long for the AOC colony three days ago. They're looking pretty happy to have the space to swim. Males still aren't sexually developed though.
The male I HAD left died due to the problems in the 20H. (Should have removed him sooner)
With all of the AOC in their 20 G, and all of the Jap. Grass in their tank, I found myself with two spare tanks. 
In one, I put my remaining 'Mosaic' male, and my red female, along with some of the most beautiful blue/red mutts I've ever seen. Really looking forward to the experiment.
Also planning on raising a few fry from a Leopard Skin, Solid Green Delta male and one of my AOC females.
In the last 10 gallon I now have a young Peacock Eel and the last Purple SS female. I doubt he'll eat the fry, and if so, probably not many. But if he does, at least I'll know he's eating well. Lol.


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