# Buying fish at Wal-Mart?



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I like to look at the fish when I go to Wal-Mart. I do it almost every time I go to buy my groceries. I’ve bought a few from the past there, but I only window shop now. They have been keeping Oscars, very beautiful ones. Yesterday however, I noticed that they both were dying. Both of the fish were peaked, sitting at the bottom of the tank with diminished gill movement. One of the Oscars eyes was completely cloudy. His condition was exceedingly poor. I do not believe that the severity of its eyes would have developed over night. It was probably noticed by employees a lot sooner, but nothing was done. I want to blame the employees for the insufficient care, but it’s the companies fault. They hire people who have absolutely no knowledge or experience in fishkeeping to run the pet care department. In the past, I have asked questions about fish they kept. The only information they could give me was what I could read from the labels myself. Any questions beyond that they would stumble and stutter over. This is the same with the line of products they keep. 

Every time I go in there I see major problems. I decided to rescue two fish from there a few months ago. The lady getting me fish disregarded the dead one fouling up the tank entirely. She had a hard time catching the ones I wanted. She kept on netting the dead one. Instead of removing it, she left it in the tank! Evidently, it would have been too much effort to take it out. I see dead fish in the tanks on a regular basis and excess amounts of food mucking up the water. It’s absolutely disgusting and unethical. The Oscar with cloudy eyes is probably beyond saving. It should be euthanized via Alka-Seltzer’s. The other one has the chance of survival if the appropriate measures are taken. However, I am almost certain that if I go in there today that tank will be devoid.

I was so furious that I decided to file a complaint and found out some remarkable information. The tanks used to have individual filtration systems, but don’t anymore. The man that took my complaint coincidentally was the head of that department before. The man explained that he would have to change out the filter pads every 3 days. He THINKS the pads had to be changed out often because people would mess with the fish. (Drop beta’s in the tank, etc.) He told me that the pads would turn completely brown. The brown ‘stuff’ would interfere with the flow of the filter. I let him ramble on with his explanation, although he didn’t have a clue as to what he was talking about. The brown ‘stuff’ has good bacteria in it; the brown ‘stuff’ is what you WANT on the filter pads. The filtration was failing because it was inadequate. Thus, those fish were, and probably still are, constantly going through ‘New Tank Syndrome’. 

Now, they run a single filtration system to ALL of the tanks. This is the most ridiculous thing to do! One diseased fish has the potential to inflict every single fish that they keep. Ergo, it’s my belief that all the tanks are contaminated, even if it’s not noticeable. Most of them are over-stocked and the water quality is crap.

This begs the question: Why are they allowed to keep fish? It’s unethical. Sure, most people probably would scoff at this because 'they are just fish' after all. But fish are living creatures too and their lives should not be viewed as insignificant. If a company cared for cats or dogs in this manner, they would be prosecuted for it! 

My complaint probably went nowhere, but it’s not over yet. Every time I see inadequate care I will call and complain until they are sick of hearing me. They have no business keeping fish if they won’t take the time to care for them. It really doesn't take much effort to do such if they would educate their employees on the basics such as the nitrogen cycle and how to feed them. If you are tempted to buy a fish from Wal-Mart, ask the person in charge of the pet care section about the nitrogen cycle. My bet is you'll get a dumbfounded look. 

I just can't turn a blind-eye to this.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Sigh... As terrible as it is, it's how it is... Best advice is probably to keep calling until they do something about it. People just don't think that fish have feelings or any of that stuff and so they don't care. It's just kind of how it is... I feel your pain though. I've seen all of this before but surprisingly, the Meijer's around me all do a pretty good job of taking care of their fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Write corporate. The wal-marts near me have taken out live fish. I have seen well-cared for fish at a wal-mart, but only because a real "fish-person" had managed to get control of the department. 

All of the stores are going to connected systems, so assume any new fish is carrying 20 diseases and always QT. In the connected systems, the dead fish they ignore don't kill the other fish with ammonia. But I agree leaving corpses in is inexcusable. In insures that every disease organism that helped kill the fish has time to jump to a new host.


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## P.senegalus (Aug 18, 2011)

I've complained about the fish department at my wal-mart twice so far and it's still terrible. Dead and dying fish with ich and other problems in every tank. My walmart don't even bother to feed the fish except for vacation food. 
They use to have an employee that took excellent care of their fish, but the tanks went down hill when she retired.

Now I have to drive for 2 hours if I want to buy fish that are not half dead.


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## blindkiller85 (Jan 8, 2011)

Sadly, this is all the same thing here at my local walmart.

Apparently, the petland that's a little ways away from me used to be amazing. They had small connected systems and almost all of them were full of snails, but I rarely ever saw dead fish, ich, or any issues what so ever. When I originally started setting up my tank, I bought fish from there. And bought more later too! Now, I think they have swapped employee's or someone got fired. Because I went in there and saw 3 oscars that had ammonia burn, 2 dead, and plenty of fish that had ich/velvet and almost all the tanks had algae visibly in it. Those oscars, yeah, they were all 5+ inches long. All tiger oscars, and 2 albino.


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## S-hag (Jan 8, 2012)

Petsmart has one filtration system too. However, they only thing I've ever seen wrong with their tanks is snail infestation. Pretty much all chain stores don't take good care of fish, (mostly Walmart). If you want healthy fish kept in good conditions, go to a privately owned fish store.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Big, injured oscars don't necessarily mean a bad store. It could be a good store doing a good deed taking in fish that have outgrown their tank. But they should put up a "not for sale" until the fish heal up.

Algae doesn't bug me, but it can indicate that a store doesn't have enough people hours to take good care of their fish. A store in trouble cuts employee's hours and then the fish care goes down, the fish get sick and die or don't sell and the store revenues drop more. Enter the "death spiral". 

Ich or velvet again should be in a few, QTed, medicated tanks with "not for sale" posted. A store that sells ich-riddled fish is not someplace you should ever shop.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

I can tell you as a former Walmart employee that general care of the tanks is not high on the priority list. If you see a well cared for tank it is because there's an employee somewhere in the building that practices the hobby. When I worked there I cared for the tanks and I didn't even work that department, but I hated seeing what I was seeing. The most training they will get is how to bag them and label the UPC on the bag.

I QT all fish now from any store. Petsmart has knowledgeable workers but seem to sell sick fish ALOT these days.


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## karleee (Dec 18, 2011)

I live in Australia,so we don't have a wal-mart. (im guessing its like a shopping store such as coles or woolworths in australia-but bigger).the stockfeeds where i live (an animal food which also sells birds and fish) has excellent fish conditions.a filter PER tank,air pumps and fed quite often.

I've only ever seen one sick fish there-but he was isolated from all the others in his own tank,and after a couple days when his condition worsend instead of getting better-he was humanly put out of his misery.

I hope the conditions at wal-mart inprove soon!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

This computer can't make long posts, but later I'll tell you some stuff.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Okay, here's the reason that the fishy situation at Walmart sucks so much:

They aren't Walmart's fish, so they aren't Walmart's problem.

The fish are owned by a wholesaler who services that area. They pay for the selling space in the store by a percentage of the sales. Walmart makes almost nothing on them at all, and only carry them in the first place to lure customers to the pet section where they might buy supplies.

Why do they leave the dead fish in the tanks? It's because the pet dept manager has to count them each morning. Removing them during the day/night messes up the count.

Walmart cuts costs by running their stores almost critically understaffed. It's annoying. Even if they did try to get fish people to run the fishtanks, those people would never be allowed to do much with them anyway-- ask anyone at walmart and they'll tell you- no one in the place can do their job because they're all too busy doing someone else's job.

You've probably also noticed that many of the species carried by Walmart, where beginners often shop, are precisely the species that should not be kept by beginners, or perhaps by anyone. Why? Since the more reputable stores won't touch these fish with a ten-foot dipnet, the wholesalers use Walmart as a dumping ground for them. Walmart doesn't know better or care one bit; they're just numbers to the company. To make matters worse, the lady in charge of the walmart pet division is not exactly renowned for her taste in fish or concern for animal welfare. It's like trying to reason witrh a brick wall with her; she just doesn't see any problem, and isn't about to spend any money to fix anything.

I work at Walmart. When I first started, almost seven years ago, my goal was to fix the fish problem someday, some way. Eventually I had to admit defeat though. You can't clean up a system that likes being dirty. ( hmmm... just like politics. Whenever you hear a candidate promising to clean up things, know that you are listening to an idiot )


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

blagojevich campaigned on a clean-up platform. My translation: of "clean up" is I plan to throw those crooks out and put my crooks in so I can get a cut.

You can't change from beneath. Go over or around. The current CEO is an engineer from GA tech. http://www.ajc.com/business/wal-mart-ceos-journey-257377.html He messed up getting rid of the fabric dept. so old ladies hate him. But he does listen to sales numbers. Fabric is back, as are lots of items he took out to 'clean up' the store and make Wal-marts more Target-like. They watch their numbers like no other store. An effective local boycott could get them to take fish out of one store. Then it could be repeated elsewhere. They should lease space to LFS like they lease space to Music & Arts Center & hair salons.


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## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I wouldn't want to work for Wal-Mart. I have heard that they aren't very good to their employees. I have noticed how they like to under-staff, as well. Unfortunately, employees catch hell for this. I have had to remind my bf at times that the long lines aren't due to employee's competence, it is a corporate problem. People tend to blame employees for things that are out of their control. I know this firsthand as I have dealt with it many times. There are some people who lack customer etiquette. It is one of my pet peeves. Some people have total disregard for the fact I am a person. So, I make sure I practice good customer etiquette. It will get you further anyway. 

There are no animal cruelty laws (which I am aware of) when it comes to fish. That is something which needs to change. I think that would make a big difference when dealing with negligence and coporate companies.


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## PostShawn (Dec 22, 2009)

The hardest thing to do is to see dying fish and leave them alone. But that's what you have to do. If the fish do not sell and they start to loose money they will get rid of the live fish department. A few spared lives is necessary unfortunately so don't buy into it and help them by paying for dying fish. I'm not trying to be cruel but if a store like Walmart has dying fish they aren't going to have better fish after you buy the dying ones. Let the fish go and if you can't stand seeing them like that then don't go to that section. Making a complaint might help too but don't buy.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

There are "animal welfare" laws on fish in GA. If you raise fish to eat, you get a department of agriculture license and show they are safe to eat. If you raise fish for 'pets', you need an inspection to show 'humane' conditions to get a license to sell. It falls under the "puppy mill' rule and the number of animals sold in a year triggers it. What would be a lot of dogs, is only one spawn of fish. They are supposed to come test your water, but they are understaffed and never call back since the people there are really dog people. So it sucks to breed fish in GA. But I don't know what the store rules are.

I never go to wal-mart anymore. I used to like to go around 2 am. But now, noon or midnight, I spend a half an hour in line. Target, I'm in and out.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Florida has some good fish cruelty laws, too.


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## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

After posting, I decided to do some research to see if there were any fish cruelty laws. Some states have them, others don't. The states that do generally fail to apply them. 

You mentioned understaffing EMC. I don't doubt it. Regardless, they are turning a blind eye. The focus is on animals that are viewed as being 'more significant'. The laws are loosely practiced when it comes to fish. It's probably at the bottom of their priorty list. I also wonder how much funding is set aside to prevent fish cruelty in different states. My guess would be very little.

I sometimes find it comical as to how the government spends tax dollars. Money is wasted on nonsensical crap when it could be applied elsewhere. My city, for instance, installed very expensive cameras in the stop lights. It's supposed to help with the flow of traffic. The keyword here is, 'supposed to' as it hasn't done anything. Yet, every winter the city doesn't have enough money in their budget for salt or sand. The road conditions get absolutely horrible, but who cares about preventing car accidents? The lyrics: "there's nothing wrong with Ohio, except the snow and the rain," is certainly not an understatement. Anyway, that's a whole other topic that I don't even want to think about. Politics just make me mad.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Where do you find what fish are legal and illegal to keep in certain states? I googled it but never found a direct answer.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

there is an old thread. http://www.fishforums.com/forum/general-freshwater/30947-illegal-fish.html?highlight=laws I think there are some links.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Yeah, I saw that forum but didn't really find anything except for stuff about dogs in MI


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You likely have to go state by state. Probably start with the state's homepage i.e. georgia.gov


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## S-hag (Jan 8, 2012)

I know piranha's are pretty restricted. I looked into getting some and found out it's illegal to keep them in my state. I didn't find any information about getting a permit for them either


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Here is a US law link with the no snakesheads or Asian carp rule: 

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...rgn=div5;view=text;idno=50;node=50:1.0.1.2.10


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

I hate wal-mart. especially in this area. their employees(as previously stated in this thread) have no idea what they're doing in pretty much any of the departments. You know it's bad when you go to the paint and automotive sections and nobody knows what fiberglass mat/resin is or where it would be located in the store. I took my business elsewhere. 

I will only go to wal-mart if it's late and nobody else is open(and if it's something i NEED). I'd rather drive a few minutes farther or pay a little bit more than support that store.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Go to your state's fish and game homepage. That is the agency that is responsible for those laws, that is where you will find the information. But, you may have to dig pretty deep. It took me a good half hour before I found the Arizona list, and Arizona has a LOT of restricted species.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

It's fairly simple to find out what aquatic species are illegal. Typically they are illegal because they are considered "invasive". I just searched "Minnesota Invasive Species of Fish" and I got this result.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/eco/invasives/laws.html#prohibited

I found this for Arizona:
http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/aquatic_invasive_species.shtml


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

That is a very incomplete list of restricted species for Arizona. Try this one, page 109, paragraph K http://www.azgfd.com/pdfs/inside_azgfd/all_azgfd_laws.pdf

K. Fish listed below are restricted live wildlife as
defined in R12-4-401.
1. Arctic grayling, the species Thymallus arctius;
2. Bass, all species of the family Serranidae;
3. Bighead carp, the species Aristichthys nobilis;
4. Black carp, the species Mylopharyngodon piceus;
5. Bony tongue, the species Arapaima gigas;
6. Bowfin, the species Amia calva;
7. Catfish, all species of the family Ictaluridae;
8. Crucian carp, the species Carassius carassius;
9. Electric catfish, the species Malapterurus
electricus;
10. Electric eel, the species Electrophorus electricus;
11. European whitefish or ide, the species Leuciscus
idusand Idus idus;
12. Freshwater drum, the species Aplodinotus
grunniens;
13. Freshwater stingrays, all species of the family
Potamotrygonidae;
14. Gars, all species of the family Lepisosteidae;
15. Goldeye, mooneye, and all species of the family
Hiodontidae;
16. Herring, all species of the family Clupeidae;
17. Indian carp, all of the species Catla catla,
Cirrhina mrigala,and Labeo rohita;
18. Lampreys, all species of the family Petromyzontidae;
19. Nile perch, all species of the genus Latesand
Luciolates;
20. Pike or pickerels, all species of the family Esocidae;
21. Pike topminnow, the species Belonesox belizanus;
22. Piranha, all species of the genera Serrasalmus,
Serrasalmo, Phygocentrus, Teddyella, Rooseveltiella,
and Pygopristis;
23. Rudd, the species Scardinius erythrophthalmus;
24. Shad, all species of the family Clupeidae except
threadfin shad, species Dorosoma petenense;
25. Sharks, all species, both marine and freshwater,
of the orders Hexanchiformes, Heterodontiformes,
Squaliformes, Pristiophoriformes, Squatiniformes,
Orectolobiformes, Lamniformes, and
Carcharhiniformes, except for all species of the
families Hemiscilliidiae, Orectolobidae, Brachaeluridae,
and Triakidae; genera of the family
Scylirhinidae, including Aulohalaerlusrus,
Halaelurus, Haploblepharus, Poroderma, and
Scyliorhinus; and genera of the family Para-
scylliidae, including Cirroscyllium and Parascyllium;
26. Silver carp, the species Hypophthalmichthys
molitrix;
27. Snakehead, all species of the family Channidae;
28. South American parasitic catfish, all species of
the family Trichomycteridae and Cetopsidae;
29. Sunfish, all species of the family Centrarchidae;
30. Temperate basses of the family Moronidae;
31. Tetras, all species of the genus Astyanyx;
32. Tiger fish, the species Hoplias malabaricus;
33. Trout, all species of the family Salmonidae;
34. White amur or grass carp, the species
Ctenopharyngodon idella;
35. Walking or airbreathing catfish, all species of the
family Clariidae; and
36. Walleye, and pike perches, all species of the
family Percida.
L. Crustaceans listed below are restricted live wildlife
as defined in R12-4-401.
1. Asiatic mitten crab, the species Eriocheir sinensis;
and
2. Australian crayfish and all freshwater species
within the families Astacidae, Cambaridae, and
Parastacidae.


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## blindkiller85 (Jan 8, 2011)

2. Bass, all species of the family Serranidae;

that sucks for the SW guys. 

The only thing I'm confused on is if this is a Arizona law stating for aquarium use, or invasive period. I'm assuming it's a mixture of both. The one thing I saw there as well, is threadfin shad. Because that eliminates a lot of good species for fisheries to propogate very well and thrive. (inwhich I'm a big enthusiast). Same goes for pike and pickerel. What the crap Arizona, both are great fishes and neither eat more than any large/small mouth bass does. Same for walleye and pike perches, trout (obviously specific genus which I'm not familiar with), and sunfish. No bluegill? The crap?

edit: Looked it up, WHAT THE $*#*. Salmonidae includes: Lake, Rainbow, Steelhead, brown, and brook trout. All of which are fantastic to eat and catch and release. I for one am boycotting AZ period. Not going there ever again lol.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

An invasive species, or potentially invasive species, does not have to eat other fish. It just has to be able to thrive in the waters in that area. For example, Arizona is not likely to put a saltwater fish on the invasive species list, since we are landlocked. Much of Arizona has a fairly different climate than the rest of the USA. Fish from other areas are not native to the waters here. If they were to thrive here, they might eat all the small things that native fish would usually eat. 

Invasive species are not allowed in aquariums because sometimes people will let them loose into local waters. 

Its all about protecting the native species.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

My Walmart is planning to get rid of it's fish. I might reopen my store.


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## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I went to Wal-Mart last night. They have new Oscars. Many of them are 'listing'. The goldfish tank is overstocked, some tanks have excessive food at the bottom, and signs of ich are present. I called the 800 number a week ago and complained. I knew this wasn't going to do a thing. I spoke with a manager last night and plan on talking to the head of the pet department. I want to pick her brain and see if she knows anything about fish. Also, I am going to ask to test the water. I had another customer complain about their condition when I was looking at them. Imagine that!


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Arizona does have some very interesting native fishes, like the desert pupfish. Alas, you can't keep those either. Endangered species, protected habitats.


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