# Driftwood and pH?



## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I am still cycling my tank but notice the pH is climbing. Out of tap it is 7.4 but my tank is now 8.3. Is that too high for most fish? I am going to test if some of my decor might be causing the problem, but have been reading that adding wood can help naturally lower the pH. Does anyone have experience with this, and recommend where I can buy the right kind of driftwood or bogwood online? (I dont have a local fish store, just the chains petsmart and petco- they only have the fake wood, not real stuff) Any tips with using wood in the tank most welcome.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

driftwood will lower your ph, I have a large piece of bog wood but soak for a long time to reduce the tannins, they will not harm your fish but may darken your water considerably


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## lmb (Nov 1, 2011)

What kind of substrate are you using? What all do you have as decorations?
Driftwood or Indian Almond Leaves will do the trick to naturally lowing a tanks pH.
They both release tannins that lower the pH. The only downside to tannins is that they can tint you tank a tea-ish color.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Are you using something like seashells or limestone in your tank? Those will make the pH rise like that.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

The substrate is gravel I got from the guy who sold me the tank secondhand, and I topped it off w/more gravel from the petstore of same size- just generic Aquafin aquarium gravel. 

Decor I have two items I bought new- a bridge & asian temple thing- and two pieces of fake coral used- I took out the larger piece because it has rough edges (tore up fish net, worried for fish fins), but the pH did not change. Today I took out the smaller coral piece and put in a bucket of treated (Prime) water, will test that water and the tank water later to see if change.

My tank is still cycling- halfway done I think- Ammonia is very low, Nitrites off the chart and Nitrates just spiked today- from 5ppm to over 40ppm overnight. Is there something about the cycle that could alter the pH temporarily? 

My next step will be to put some substrate in the bucket and test the pH of that. I'm worried now because this guy had both saltwater and freshwater aquariums, and I neglected to ask if the stuff he sold me had been used in saltwater. I did rinse everything very thoroughly and cleaned the glass w/vinegar solution- could it still affect my freshwater fish, having stuff that was in saltwater for who knows how long, before?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

SW stuff can continue to leach salt or carbonate for a while. But that only a problem if you are going for super soft water and/or certain plants. Most fish won't mind a bit of trace minerals. What products are you adding to the water? Some of the cycling stuff has pH uppers as low-pH can stall the cycle.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm just using Prime to condition. Dead plant bits and fish food tied in a piece of pantyhose for ammonia source. I had a cocktail shrimp in there last week but it got very nasty looking. Did not smell too bad though.

I've discovered the source of pH problem! It was the second, smaller piece of fake coral. I had it in a bucket overnight. This morning the bucket water read 8.2, tank is now 7.4. Process of elimination 

Now I find I like the natural look of driftwood and want to add some anyway. Is there a danger of it lowering the pH_ too_ much?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

NEVER !!!!!!!!!! put things from saltwater(ocean) in freshwater aquariums unless the inhabitants require a high PH......(such as rift lake species.)

most folks don't care much about the animals they keep..they tend to just put whatever strikes their fancy in a tank without regard for what the needs or preferences of the fish are..rift lake species require a higher PH...ABOUT 8.4-8.8.....we never use chemicals to adjust..we use dolomite or crushed coral as a substrate and tufa rock,texas holey rock and limestone for rockwork...NO DRIFTWOOD...
for species that need a lower or more acidic PH we use natural gravels..driftwood and plants...if we want an even lower PH we will use sphagnum moss or leaves such as catappa or oak etc.....all of these will tint your water to a light to dark tea color....while many of us humans find that ugly , the fish absolutely love it...the tank may be crystal clear but the water is tinted....my recommendation is to leave it like that...but if you MUST have perfectly clear water without any coloration you can use some activated carbon in the filter to remove the color....
the addition of leaves or wood will lower the PH , but not to the point where it would make the fish unhappy...actually the lower PH will aid in good health...

so , before you put fish in your tank decide what types you want and set up the tank according to their needs.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ok. Thanks. I did not intend for anything in there to be from saltwater, I just forgot to ask about the origins of the used stuff. Now know better. I've removed all the suspect items and the pH is better/lower. 

I just want a community freshwater tank- dwarf gouramis, zebra danio, maybe some tetras or black mollies and cory cats. I do like chiclids but don't have enough space for those...


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

leave the mollies out as they prefer water with a higher PH and a bit harder than the others..


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Good to know, will do. I am still going over all the possibilities for stocking, will do another post on that when it's time... I figure if I have some terrible mismatch with fish that won't get along or be happy in the same conditions, you all can tell me!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I wouldn't be surprised if your 'fake coral" isn't real dead coral. I would take it out even if I wanted high pH because it is so sharp and sooner or later either you or a fish could get a scrape from it.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm pretty sure it is fake- there is a short stem on the bottom broken off and the surface looks like ceramic or plastic there... but even tho it is out of the tank, my tank water is back up to 8.0 now. I'm testing the substrate, and the river rocks I bought from the petstore, and after that I don't know what it could be.

I have been putting in some liquid plant food (Aqueon aquarium plant food) once a week, could that be the problem?

My game plan now is to add a piece of driftwood (which I want to do anyways) to lower the pH, or change the idea of what fish I can have- I really wanted a gourami, but might just go with mollies and swordtails or dwarf cichlids.... they like the harder water, right?

If it is the substrate, I guess I'd have to take everything out of the tank again and replace the gravel. Will I have to cycle the tank all over again after doing that?


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

Jeane09 said:


> Ok. Thanks. I did not intend for anything in there to be from saltwater, I just forgot to ask about the origins of the used stuff. Now know better. I've removed all the suspect items and the pH is better/lower.
> 
> I just want a community freshwater tank- dwarf gouramis, zebra danio, maybe some tetras or black mollies and cory cats. I do like chiclids but don't have enough space for those...


If a chcilid you like, why not get a single German Blue Ram. They're a New World chiclid and stay around 2 inches fully grown. Of course add him last. Mine is pretty active, has tons of personality and recognizes me everytime I come into the room. I've got 5 Neons, 4 Peppered Corycats, 1 German Blue Ram and a 1 Peacock Gudgeon in a 10 gallon tank.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

rams are softwater. So are kribs. But dwarf cichlids from tanganyika are hard water. Shellies like multiies or ocellatus. In a small tank you can generally do one true dwarf cichlid or one gourami and some other non-territorial fish. But not a cichlid and a gourami.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Not a pair of cichlids? because of the space? and why not a cichlid and gourami together? Do they hurt each other, or are their needs different for the water parameters.

I was really hoping to do a gourami w/other fish species, if I can just get the pH figured out.


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## Pleco (Sep 22, 2012)

You probably already know this but driftwood can also cloud your water


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I plan to soak it or even boil for some time, replacing water and do again, until it isn't stained so much... not sure how much soaking that will take though.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

Pleco.......in 40 years in this hobby and keeping all kinds of driftwood , i have never had one cloud the water...
i have pieces of wood that have been in my tanks for 10 years or more and still tint the water some....i have never boiled wood either...never had a problem...


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## Pleco (Sep 22, 2012)

lohachata said:


> Pleco.......in 40 years in this hobby and keeping all kinds of driftwood , i have never had one cloud the water...
> i have pieces of wood that have been in my tanks for 10 years or more and still tint the water some....i have never boiled wood either...never had a problem...


For me it stains the water a light amber color. I got a smaller piece from the GAAS fish meeting, and when I was soaking it, the water came out also as that color, so...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

cichlids and gourami are both territorial fish. They are most aggressive toward their own kind, same sex, then their own kind, opposite sex, then anything else that also wants to claim the same space. You don't want more territorial fish than you have territory or you will get to watch a little war.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes, it does stain the water- I got piece from the pet store and it turned the tank water all golden color but I have been soaking & boiling this week and now the soak water is almost clear (plus it didn't sink at first so needed to soak anyway). I tested how the tapwater changes when the wood soaks, definitely gets softer/lower pH so I think this will solve my problem nicely. Although still frustrated that I can't figure out what is making it high in the first place.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I have solved the mystery! Although I still don't understand it. I unplugged the pump, so the air stone was off- tested the water this morning, it matched tapwater pH. So I've removed the airstone, but I don't know why it did that. Why would running an airstone raise the pH in my tank? 

(the pump and airline were used, I bought the check valve and airstone brand new)


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

I have never heard of an airstone raising the ph. you should put the airstone back in because the bacteria you are cultivating by doing the cycle love oxygen. I would go ahead and put the driftwood in the tank and air stone back. let the tank sit for 2 or 3 days then test the water. looks to me like your changing to much stuff to quick to let the tank settle in. removing stuff to try to determine the reason may be doing more harm than good.

i have a cichlid tank and i put limestone rocks in to raise the ph. I have 3 planted tanks, and to lower the ph, i just add driftwood. its pretty much that simple. don't kill yourself wondering why... all tanks run different. basically just put the driftwood in.

it is part of the fun of doing this though. lol I am always playing in my tanks to figure out why stuff works the way it does. 

good luck though! itll all work out


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I hadn't tested in almost a week, now, because I was prepping the wood. I tested the water yesterday, Amm & Nitrite still 0, Nitrates 60, pH 8.2 (where it's been this whole time). Turned off the airstone and this morning pH was 7.4 (my tapwater level). So I feel pretty sure it's the airstone, or something in the airline? because for _weeks_ it's been 8.2 and then I turn it off and it goes back down to norm... 

I'm going to put the driftwood in regardless, because I like how it looks- if the airstone really is that beneficial I guess I'll put that back in too, because I feel the driftwood will keep the pH lower like I want. Is that unstable, to have the pH bouncing around? or will the thing raising it and the thing lowering it both in the tank just even each other out?


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Don't the plants create enough oxygen for the bacteria?


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Yeah, I always want to know _why_, it keeps nagging at my mind if I don't know the _why_. I was even like that as a kid- always wanted to know the why to rules and stuff. Probably drove my mom nuts.


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

well it depends on the amount of plants, and once you put the driftwood in i bet everything will be fine and dandy. what kind of airstone is it? i just cant imagine an airstone doing that. they are usually made out of inert materials that shouldn't change anything about the tank. air line wouldn't change anything either. i don't know though, could be anything. if it were me i would look for anything not made of plastic and you will probably find your culprit. 

how many plants do you have in the tank?


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

About a dozen- five different species- but they are all rather small, still. None reach higher than half the height of tank yet.


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

did you ever change the substrate? i read back through the post again. if the tank used to be a cichlid tank or salt water and you mixed new rock in with old, that could be your problem. plus the airstone would " circulate " the water through the rocks cause your ph to rise. i just noticed you mention the substrate on the first page and then nothing else.
if you didn't replace it, and have any suspicions of the gravel he gave you being used in salt or cichlid aquariums, change it. go to lowes and buy a $4 dollar bag of playsand and use it for substrate. all you have to do is wash it out in a bucket before you put it in the aquarium. it'll cloud the water for a day, but i put it in, fill it up, drain water out, and repeat till "dust" is gone. takes about an hour the way i do it and the water is clear.


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

put the plants and filter media in a bucket till the water is clear. you wont have to recycle the aquarium because your bacteria will be on the plants and filter.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I did suspect that at first. I scooped out a few handfuls of gravel from different parts of the tank, put it in bucket of tapwater, tested to see if it changed the tapwater pH. Nothing happened, so I thought that wasn't it. I'm a little loathe to change out all the substrate as the plants have just started growing new roots- won't that disturb them a lot...?


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ok. I think I will try that. Is sand better for the live plants than aquarium gravel...?

I've also got what I think (from all the descriptions I read) cyanobacteria - it's very vivid bluish green and only growing on the gravel rocks- so I think something is really wonky in my tank or just because it's still relatively new and not stable yet?


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

i like it better. im sure someone will disagree. but you can look at my tank in the fish and aquarium pics section and that's what i use in all my tanks. i just moved all my plants and as long as your gentle with them it wont hurt them at all. the sand is totally inert ie. wont change the ph. and the bacteria im not sure about. probably came with the plants and is a type of algae. get some bristle nose plectos when you stock the tank and they will take care of it. i always set my tanks up so that whatever fish are in it are doing something

bristle nose plectos= eat algae 
ghost shrimp= scavenge food, eat dead plant matter
cory cats= break up fish waste looking for stuff in the substrate
snails= eat dead plant matter, promote healthy bacteria and little critters in the water
neons, gourami, danios,= make fish poop lol
tiger endlers= clean leaves of plants


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ok, thanks. That's been very helpful. I already have 1 ramshorn snail- hatched off one of the plants I think- he eats the algae on the glass but doesn't seem to touch the stuff on the gravel. I was planning to start (hopefully later this week or next week) by stocking with a few zebra danios, then some cory cats or otocinclus or maybe a chinese algae eater...


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

that sounds good. and im just trying to help. everybody has a different approach on aquariums. when i'm setting up a new aquarium i always come on here and ask a ton of questions. some people disagree, some people agree, others help. lol 

i would look into a diy c02 system too. its easy when you get the hang of it and it can lower your ph also.


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## BettaGuy (May 6, 2012)

Sand is a no go for planted tanks normally. The problem with sand is that it is very compact, aka will crush the roots of your plants. Gravel is a lot better for plants in the substrate as it has a lot of spaces in between to allow the roots to grow. In a planted tank where you only plant on objects and not in the substrate, sand is a reasonable choice.


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

:argue:like I said, works for me. has been for 20 years. mine doesn't compact because I wash all of the silt out prior to placing in the tank. to each his own, but don't say its a no go. a lot of people use sand as substrate for planted tanks. my lfs owner uses nothing else on his 47 planted tanks. I agree that sand can compact if not washed properly, but if used properly, can be an excellent choice in a planted tank. all my plants root fine, and several had roots over a foot long when I moved them last week, didn't look flat to me. :console:


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## TheJakeM (May 11, 2013)

Sand v gravel is both a heated and common argument on this forum. I use gravel on my 29 gal and 20 gal. In my 5 gallon I use sand. Honestly I like sand better but that's just for looks. I don't have gas bubbles in the sand or injured cories on the gravel. It's really your own choice on what you want to use. I also think plants actually like sand better. It's more like real lake/sea bed than gravel.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## BettaGuy (May 6, 2012)

There is benefits to both, I personally use sand in my 5g planted betta tank, but the plants are just attached to driftwood and objects in the tank. Sand is better than gravel for plants like microswords that spread at the bottom of the tank, but fine gravel works too. With gravel the fish poop drops in between the cracks of the gravel, allowing for natural fertilization, not possible with sand. Of course sand looks nicer (i prefer it too). I tried water whisteria in my betta tank too, it grew like crazy, but no roots in the sand. But you're right, no point in arguing they are both choices that work out in the end, with benefits and drawbacks to both.


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## marcshrimp (Jun 16, 2013)

yeah im not saying gravel isn't an option. i was just stating for me the sand has always worked better. i switched to it along time ago because i got tired of syphoning the gravel. that's weird the water wisteria didn't root, that's one of the plants that root pretty good for me. i wasn't arguing lol. i just found the smiley section and was playing lol. and as far as getting the poop into the sand, i just stir it into the sand with a hair pick when i trim the my plants. also i like how the root tabs i use degrade into the sand better. Malaysian trumpet snails are also great in sand substrate. i forgot to mention i put them in all my aquariums. they stir the sand really well also. its all in all personal preference. it's just like the next guy is gonna say to only use "real substrate" its whatever works for you and the tank


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## BettaGuy (May 6, 2012)

I use malaysian trumpet snails too and they are a huge pain after a month or two when there is a million of them crawling around. I use assassin snails to control their population, it works great.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. I think I would like the look of sand better but after reading a lot, if I DO use sand, I would want the pool filter sand. There's no pool supply stores near here and the places like Home Depot don't have it in winter. So I have until spring to think about it!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

IMO sand looks great and fish and plants love it. However, it is more effort than gravel, IMO, and a lot more effort than bare bottoms. I do recommend that all substrate be "natural", shade of white, cream, beige, gray, brown, black, you know, rock colors. Pink or orange gravel looks okay in one tank.. But stray pieces of orange gravel in all your tanks is just an eyesore. Pick everything from the "natural" palette and not only do you set off the fish and plants better, but random hitchhiking bits only look like "nature variation" and not like someone was littering.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

*Will being near a washing machine/dryer stress the fish?*

oops - wrong place for this!


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## BettaGuy (May 6, 2012)

I use pool filter sand, it is great. And it is so clean too. Of course you need to wash it, but it is much cleaner than other available sands.


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