# Just some betta help please.



## Guest (Dec 8, 2008)

I have had an old tall 30 sitting around and decided to buy two female bettas and put them in the thirty. There is no filter, and they are the only two in the tank. It does have a heater, and an air bubble tank (or whatever you call them). 
My question is how often should I change the water without a filter? And will the beneficial bacteria grow on the gravel or am I going to be changing the water so much that bacteria won't grow? I'm just worried about putting a filter on it because I think it will be too much for them. Any help will do thanks!


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

As long as it is properly placed a filter would be fine. Without the filter I would do full tank water changes weekly to every other week. Yes the bacteria will live in the gravel. Make sure you keep that wet when you do the water changes and that you use a water dechlorinator. I have done this with a Betta in the past and it worked out well.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

If I were you, I would get at least 3 more bettas. Female bettas CAN coexist, but 2 in a tank will lead to them harassing each other. Get a filter with adjustable flow and turn it down if you're worried about the current. They'll appreciate it


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## Albino_101 (Aug 14, 2008)

Just have the current aimed to the wall of the tank, which I did with my puffers when the current would throw around the ghost shrimp making it impossible for them to feed.
biozyme also helps with bacteria growth and its fish safe so thers no waiing period.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

2 female bettas in a 30 gallon tank, and that's it?

Heck, cover the top in floating plants, and you'll probably be able to forego water changes for over a year. Bettas don't eat much, ya know.

Is that a good idea? No, but it's doable. The only problem I would forsee is if you change to much at one time after a very long time of not changing any. Regular water changes are good for keeping your tank's water as similar as possible to your faucet's water, which is a good thing, since it lets you make water changes with minimal fuss. Letting the tank's water chemistry drift too far away from your replacement water's qualities is what leads to problems.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2008)

Yeah I know that's it so far. I don't want to buy a filter and the whole nine yards. I just want to keep this tank simple, since the 75g needs most of the attention. How many more female bettas can I put in it? Remember it's a 30g TALL....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Is it 24" or 20" long? I've seen 30s with the footprints of 15s and the footprints of 10s.

If you have another air pump, get a sponge filter. They are cheap, easy, and effective.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2008)

It's a 20in. long, 24in. tall, 18in. wide


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Weird tank.

Anyway, you could probably keep 6 to 8 in this tank without needing a filter, as long as you had a bunch of floating plants to soak up the waste for you. Maybe even more fish would fit, but you'd eventually start to get problems with fighting if you went too far. They do fine in smallish groups, but in very small groups or in big groups they don't get along so well.


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## eterry (Dec 7, 2008)

*Your Betta Tank*

First, you must have a filter in a tank that large. Your fish are going to get sick fast if you don't get a filter on there ASAP. You won't be able to stop the anaerobic bacteria from growing in a tank with no filter that is that large. Second, I would recommend a canister filter, and point the outflow down and toward the glass that it is attached to. Third, I don't agree with Darth. Crowding fish is not a good thing. You could have alot more fish in there but why would you have them? Do you want more? There is nothing weird about the tank with the exception of no filter. I started with 3 fish in a 40gal 3 years ago. It takes time to learn how to care for fish well, and now I have a full tank. I'm really glad I didn't crowd the tank before I really knew what I was doing. If I had, it might have resulted in fish dieing. Now that I know how to feed and keep the tank clean well, I can keep a full tank of fish, but I would slowly add more fish only IF you want more. Also, we have kept 2 male bettas, and we kept each one alone in a 10gal with ottos. I would never keep a betta in something smaller than 10gal.


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

eterry said:


> First, you must have a filter in a tank that large. Your fish are going to get sick fast if you don't get a filter on there ASAP. You won't be able to stop the anaerobic bacteria from growing in a tank with no filter that is that large.



wrong.:chair:

the plants will soak up the waste.
bettas have EXTREMELY small bioloads
you actually want the bacteria to grow because that is what causes a tank to cycle.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> and an air bubble tank


If you already have a source of air, running a sponge filter instead of a bubble wand won't make any more current and will provide some biological filtration.


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

+1 what emc7 said


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

Actually if I had a different species of fish besides bettas then of course I would put a filter in the tank, and I would do a fishless cycle. But I don't have to have a filter.
Why would I want the bacteria to stop growing? The more beneficial bacteria the better IMO.
I am not going to put a canister filter on a tank with 1in. bettas in it. Nothing else will be going in it besides these *now 4* girls.
You are absolutely right about overcrowding fish, but that's depending largely on the species. African cichlids for example you almost want to push the bioload to keep the aggression levels down.
I also agree about putting bettas in such small tanks. That's why I grabbed these girls, because I can't stand them sitting in those little bowls. It kills me! So now they have a 30 gallon to call home. 
I have been a fishkeeper for about 4 years now and I am no way an expert, I thank you for your advice. 


eterry said:


> First, you must have a filter in a tank that large. Your fish are going to get sick fast if you don't get a filter on there ASAP.
> You won't be able to stop the anaerobic bacteria from growing in a tank with no filter that is that large. Second, I would recommend a canister filter, and point the outflow down and toward the glass that it is attached to. Third, I don't agree with Darth. Crowding fish is not a good thing. You could have alot more fish in there but why would you have them? Do you want more? There is nothing weird about the tank with the exception of no filter. I started with 3 fish in a 40gal 3 years ago. It takes time to learn how to care for fish well, and now I have a full tank. I'm really glad I didn't crowd the tank before I really knew what I was doing. If I had, it might have resulted in fish dieing. Now that I know how to feed and keep the tank clean well, I can keep a full tank of fish, but I would slowly add more fish only IF you want more. Also, we have kept 2 male bettas, and we kept each one alone in a 10gal with ottos. I would never keep a betta in something smaller than 10gal.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> anaerobic


 The "good" bacteria need oxygen to do aerobic (with air) decay of fish waste. I think the poster fears you will get "airless" decay of waste if you don't have circulation in the tank and some of the things made by "bad" bacteria can hurt the fish. 

You can go filterless, but you will need more plants or water changes than if you bubble the air through a sponge or box of filter floss. A steady blub, blub, blub is kind of annoying for people, but a betta won't mind it like it would a outside filter current. 



> The more beneficial bacteria the better


 IMO the amount that grows on gravel in still water (no oxygen moving over it) it not enough to call the tank "cycled". You are forced to either treat the tank like a betta jar (big water changes) or a "balanced aquarium" (many plants, few fish) or risk random ammonia spikes. The bettas can weather them better than most fish, but why risk it? You can buy a sponge filter for $5, or make a filter out of airline and a ball of filter floss. The only ongoing cost is the electricity for an airpump.



> First, you must have a filter in a tank that large


Its not the size of the tank that matters, its the 'bioload' (how much you feed). If you put one betta in a 250 gallon tank, you don't need a filter.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

All the bacteria, aerobic and anaerobic, will only grow as much as conditions allow. Well, more precisely they'll grow just beyond that point and crash, but the effect is the same; you'll get only so much and that's it, and even better, they will most likely be in balance with each other in a tank like this one, thereby eliminating all nitrogenous waste completely.

6 female bettas in a 30 gallon tank is certainly not overcrowded by any means, so don't sweat it.


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## block2 (Aug 31, 2008)

*Indian Almond Leaves*



TheOldSalt said:


> 2 female bettas in a 30 gallon tank, and that's it?
> 
> Heck, cover the top in floating plants, and you'll probably be able to forego water changes for over a year. Bettas don't eat much, ya know.
> 
> Is that a good idea? No, but it's doable. The only problem I would forsee is if you change to much at one time after a very long time of not changing any. Regular water changes are good for keeping your tank's water as similar as possible to your faucet's water, which is a good thing, since it lets you make water changes with minimal fuss. Letting the tank's water chemistry drift too far away from your replacement water's qualities is what leads to problems.


I agree with floating leaves, I personnally use Indian Almond Leaves. I do full water changes every 3 weeks, and add a new leaf after every water change. Heres a little bit of info regarding the leaves :

I was introduced to leaves by a couple of Thai Betta breeders. When the Indian Almond dried leaves are placed into the water, a strong brown dye is given off. The dye contains organic acids humic and tannins. The water darkens to a yellowish brown (tea-like color) after a few days, which is exactly the same as the Betta fishes' natural habitat. The changed water seems to harden their scales. It also helps them heal wounds and ward off illnesses.

The humic and tannins from the Indian almond leaves also lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful chemicals and helps create a soothing and calm environment for the fish. The leaves can also be used to treat bacteria infection and help the Bettas recover from injuries. Some people also use them to increase breeding frequency. But be careful, because it also makes the male more aggressive at breeding time. On the other hand, it also helps the female recover from any wounds she receives during the breeding process.

I use one square-inch of leaf per half-gallon of water for individual fish. One leaf per 10-gallon rearing tank for the fry. One-leaf per half-filled 10-gallon breeding tank.

Regards
Jeff


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