# Help Sick Goldfish



## Guest (Sep 2, 2011)

Hello,

I recently bought 2 subukin goldfish a week apart from each other as advised by my local pet shop. The first one that I have had the longest has got a swollen eye and it looks like Popeye from reading on the internet about it. It has been like it for almost a week and in the last few days I have gone back to the pet shop with a water sample for them to test and the readings are as follows:

Nitrate 40 ppm 

Nitrite 2.0 ppm 

Ammonia 4.0 ppm 


The tank size is 24 ltr whilst some may say that the tank is to small for goldfish this is only a temporary tank and in the longer term I will be buying a larger tank. 

I have an air pump, 1 air stone in the tank and a filter which came standard with the tank I cant see who makes it but I bought the tank from my local Pets at home store. 

They advised me to buy some Tetra Easy Balance to balance out the readings of the water quality. They also advised that I bought some API MELAFIX which says on the product that its for Popeye. They have advised me that I should put in API MELAFIX each day into the tank for the next week and see if there is any improvements. Before adding this I did about a 30% water change previous weeks I had done a 25% water change as advised to do so. They advised me that I can treat the whole tank with the API MELAFIX my concern is that the other fish may get Popeye?


The reason for posting all of the above is because I would like some advice on how I can try and get the readings down? And also if there is anything else I can do to help the fish recover from the Popeye infection. The fish with the Popeye infection has been spending most of its time at the bottom of the water as of late. I have also stopped feeding them at the moment because the Pets shop advised me that the water is very toxic at the moment. 


I would very much appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well you have an uncycled tank which is a problem and you are going to have to do water changes every couple of days to get that settled down.
The melafix might help the eye but it depends on why it is swollen. Could the fish have hurt himself on an ornament? Or perhaps the other fish attacked the eye. maybe there is an infection in the eye. Who knows for sure. At any rate the water changes are going to help the toxicity levels as well as the need for clean water for the eye. If you want to get hold of a product like Tetra Quick Start or Seachem Stability it may help, but the ammonia level needs to be lowered a bit by water changes every couple of days. Seachem Prime water conditioner can lower the toxicity of the ammonia and nitrite in the water as well as an addition of some Aquarium salt to the tank. It helps with the nitrite effect on the fish.
I only ever use 1/2 dose of salt in the tank when i am cycling because we are dealing with freshwater fish. They can tolerate it for a few days.
Stop feeding the fish for a couple of days. They can go without food for a long time and a small feed only every few days will help the chemistry settle a bit quicker. Another thing you can do is to throw in some plants to the tank- make sure they are true aquatic plants as some fish stores sell house plants to put in the tank and then you have to deal with them dying and creating a bigger problem.
If you have a vine type plant in the house like a pothos you can take a cutting and stick that in the tank water as it will soak up a few of the nitrites and ammonias. You will be surprised how fast it will root in a tank.. Also bamboo shoots do good in the tank as long as the tops are out of the water. Those plants will not like the salt however.I use all of these methods when cycling tanks.
Sometimes popeye is caused by an injury and not bacteria and very clean water over several days solves the problem.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

2 (how big?) goldfish in an uncycled, unfiltered? 6 gallon tank. Yes, you are asking for problems. You may need daily 100% water changes to control ammonia. Pop-eye will often clear up just with 2 week of clean water. The don't feed advise is good. Salt is helpful with nitrite and safe in moderation for goldfish. 

Agree with the Stabilty advice, but it won't help if you don't have a filter.

Use a water conditioner that 'detoxifies ammonia and nitrite" like Prime and consider using a double or triple dose.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2011)

Hello,
Thanks for your replies,

The tank was set up on 2nd August 2011 I bought the first fish on 5th Aug 2011. As advised by my local pet store to leave the tank for several days and then to introduce one fish at a time. I clearly advised them that I was going to get 2 Shubunkin goldfish and they suggested that I use a 24ltr tank for them. 

As you have said on here that the tank is to small I am now looking for an alternative tank I have found this one I would be grateful if you could let me know if its suitable or suggest an alternative tank. 

http://www.discountedpetproducts.net/15_GALLON_BLACK_TANK__24_X_12_X_12_-UKP44933.html

http://www.discountedpetproducts.net/15_GALLON_BLACK_TANK_24X12X12-UKP49377.html

http://www.discountedpetproducts.net/29GAL_DELUXE_AQUARIUM_KIT-UKP45023.html


I have today gone ahead and changed 50% of the water and let the water stand for several hours so that it adjusts to the correct temp before adding it to the tank. I have tried to find the Terta Quick Start but have only managed to find this below can someone advise if this is the correct stuff? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tetra-Qui...pplies_Fish&hash=item4cf31a808c#ht_1984wt_905


I will also go out and buy some tank plants and make sure that they are proper aquatic plants.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

The 29 gallon tank is the best bet for your fish and bigger if you have space for it and can afford it.
I kept 2 goldfish I rescued from someone in a 15 gallon tank but the fish were stunted in their growth because they had been raised in a 5 gallon tank. I also ran a filter suitable for 30 gallons on that 15 gallon tank. 
The general rule of thumb is for 10 gallons per goldfish and more if you want them to grow to their full size and live to their full life span which is 20-40 years. Other hobbists would say 20 gallons for the first fish and 10 for each fish thereafter.
For example i would only put 2 goldfish in my 30 gallon so as to maximize their growth. Buy a tank big enough to accomodate the full size. They will grow better faster and it is easier to keep a bigger tank cycled.
Goldfish give off a lot of ammonia for their size so it is going to be a bit tricky to get a small tank cycled. Yes the kit of the Tetra product does contain the Safestart stuff but the other stuff is not necessary. All you need is a good filter- it must change the water over at least 8-10 times an hour. Usually the specifications are on the outside of the box. A good water conditioner to neutralize the ammonia from your taps is the other requirement.Do not get involved with any chemicals to balance the tank, or to lower or raise ph. They just aren't necessary.

Come back with more questions and people here wil walk you thru.
I see you are in England. Is it possible to reflect that under your name somewhere so that people have an idea of what products would 
be available in your part of the world?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

My college roommate had 2 double-tail goldfish in a 5. Once died early on, they can be aggressive to each other in small tanks and water quality can crash quickly in a 5. The other one lasted 5 years and never got very big. But they can live 30 years in a decent size tank. You will find a larger tank a lot less effort, also.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2011)

Hi,

I have purchased Tetra Quck Start for the fish tank my question is can this be added whilst the fish are in there? Because I've read a lot of people use it when they first setup the tank with no fish in it.

Edit- I have just noticed that the use by date on the bottom of the bottle is 04/11 so its 5months out dated, could this be an issue?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

You usually add the bacteria in a bottle when there is an ammonia source in the tank. ie fish. Here is a link to a forum where it is discussed in detail and with answers from the Tetra company.

http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/58116-q-tetra-tetra-safestart.html

And yes I would be concerned if it is past it's expiry date. Some products like Seachem Stability say that the product doesn't really have an expiry but IME that is just not true. A product within its expiry date is always better to have.
I have experience with Stability in that regard


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2011)

mousey said:


> You usually add the bacteria in a bottle when there is an ammonia source in the tank. ie fish. Here is a link to a forum where it is discussed in detail and with answers from the Tetra company.
> 
> http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/58116-q-tetra-tetra-safestart.html
> 
> ...




Thanks for your quick response, I agree its not good about the product being out of date so I'm currently in contact with the supplier that gave it to me.

Unfortunately the fish that had Popeye passed away a few days ago.

Also here are the latest readings from my tank, taken on Wednesday.

Nitrate 5.0

Nitrite 0.50 

Ammonia 0.50


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well at least you are showing nitrates so you are on your way. Just keep up water changes to keep the ammonia annd nitrite low. A small amount of aquarium salt will help the fish with the nitrites which prevent o2 from being absorbed as it needs to be.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi again,

Thanks for your response, I'll keep up with the water changes I have purchased an API Freshwater Master test kit off the internet so I can keep a better log of the water levels because before I had been going to my local pet store.

Also, what is the average temp the water should be in the fish tank at the moment its 23.5c. is this about right?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

74F is ok. Goldfish don't mind cooler. Is that the room temp?


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2011)

Hello,

I have carried out another water test today and the results are listed below. As you will see there is little change. Can someone let me know if these are good results and what I could do to get the nitrate level down a bit more?


Thanks,

Nitrate 5.0ppm

Nitrite 1.0ppm

Ammonia 0.25ppm


PH level 7.6


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

At this point the Nitrates are not a concern. It is the ammonia and nitrites that need to be watched.
Actually it looks good. The ph is fine- fish adjust to whatever they are in. 
The ammonia is only 0.25 and that should resolve in a couple of days as long as you don't feed too much. 
The nitrites are looking good too and a bit of a water change will bring them down a bit lower.

Nitrates can run up to about 20 - 30 between water changes and are still "safe" for fish. The nitrates are why we do weekly water changes as part of an ongoing regime.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi again,

Thanks for your response,

I've done another water test today after changing 30% of the water in the tank. Results are below, at the moment I'm feeding the fish every other day 2 flakes. This is the food that I currently have at the moment:

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/goldfish-flake-food-25gm-and-200gm-by-aquarian-31875


Results of test.

Ammonia 0.25ppm

Nitrate 5.0ppm

Nitrite 0.25ppm

PH 7.6


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi 

For the past few days the fish tank temp has been at 25c the room temp is at 22c. Does anyone know if this temp is okay for goldfish if not what could I do in order to try and reduce the temp? I last did a water change on last Sunday.


Many thanks


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

the temperature is fine. I am not sure where you live but the fish will be ok at higher temperautes in the summer for a few weeks. You can put some treated water in pop bottles and freeze if it gets really hot for a number of days. I am thinkinfg of the high 80s and 90s.
Then you put a bottle of frozen water into the tank still in the bottle. Be sure to treat the water first in case the bottle leaks.Be sure not to chill the water off too fast.
however the temp you're at just now is fine.

Also a hint when you are posting test results.  The sequence of the chemical process is ammonia to nitirites to nitrates. Most of us look at the numbers in that order but you have been posting them as ammonia, nitrates, nitrites. I am assuming you have NOT been getting the numbers, names and order mixed up. If you have it changes things a bit, although the treatment is the same.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2011)

mousey said:


> the temperature is fine. I am not sure where you live but the fish will be ok at higher temperautes in the summer for a few weeks. You can put some treated water in pop bottles and freeze if it gets really hot for a number of days. I am thinkinfg of the high 80s and 90s.
> Then you put a bottle of frozen water into the tank still in the bottle. Be sure to treat the water first in case the bottle leaks.Be sure not to chill the water off too fast.
> however the temp you're at just now is fine.
> 
> Also a hint when you are posting test results.  The sequence of the chemical process is ammonia to nitirites to nitrates. Most of us look at the numbers in that order but you have been posting them as ammonia, nitrates, nitrites. I am assuming you have NOT been getting the numbers, names and order mixed up. If you have it changes things a bit, although the treatment is the same.



Hi,

Thanks for your response,

I can confirm that I have not got them mixed up, but I will post them in the order you suggest.  

I have today taken out 40% of the tank water, and vacuumed the gavel and also replaced the filter cartridge. I waited a few hours after and here are the results of the water quality levels. It looks good apart from the ammonia do you have any more ideas on how I could try and get this down further? I have been feeding the fish every other day with the food I linked to in my previous post.

Water test:

Ammonia 0.50ppm

Nitrite 0.ppm

Nitrate 5.0ppm

PH 7.6


Many thanks


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Ok here is another thing--- never replace the filter cartridge * unless it is falling apart or so stiff you can't get it to bend.Each time you toss the cartridge you toss the good bacteria.
If it is one where there is charcoal in the middle, cut it open and shake out the carbon. Rinse the mesh part in a bucket of old tank water and reinsert into the plastic filter box- where ever it came out from.
You do not need the carbon except as a product to remove medication if you ever have to use it or if there is some discoloration in the water that you find unsightly. Carbon in the cartridges is in such a small amount as to be virtually no use. If you read on a loose carbon container it recommends upwards of 1/2 cup of carbon per 5 gallons. That is quite bit more than you get in a cartridge.
Also the carbon will leach toxins back into the water within a couple of weeks of being added to the filter so a lot of us just go without and reuse the mesh bit until it is totally disintegrating. I usually change out the pads every couple of years- occasionlly sooner if needed. Also you can add some loose padding or bio beads into the filter box so that there is more surface area for the bacteria to distribute themselves onto. Then if you have to throw out some of the filter media you can do it in stages several weeks apart.
If you do a big gravel clean don't do the filter- it can destroy too much of the biofilter at the same time and cause a mini cycle.


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks for your response, 

This is the cartridge that the filter uses: http://www.petsathome.com/shop/replacement-aquarium-sponge-by-pets-at-home-30378 




The pet shop advised me that this should be replaced every few weeks e.g once a month or every six weeks. What I did was rinse the replacement cartridge in the water that was from the fish tank. Clearly they were wrong so I will do what you have suggested.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Is that all that is in the filter? Just one piece of foam? No biobeads or charcoal? 
What kind of filter is it?

A number of us buy our filter padding and biobeads as individual products not part of a package deal. I buy sheets of filter media and can buy blocks of foam loose. If you have a number of tanks it works out cheaper.Also if you need to start a new tank you can transfer bits of filter media to the new tank and avoid a lot of the cycling problems.
I keep many bits of filter pad in the bottoms of my filters so I can seed another tank if I want to.

The stores want you to buy the stuff that is specifically designed for the filter you own. They make more money that way, but you can put quite a few things together by yourself. I use cushion filling that you would use for crafts and cushions instead of the filter floss from the petstore as it is about 1/2 the price. It polishes the water by removing and fine particles floating in the water.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> Is that all that is in the filter? Just one piece of foam? No biobeads or charcoal?
> What kind of filter is it?
> 
> A number of us buy our filter padding and biobeads as individual products not part of a package deal. I buy sheets of filter media and can buy blocks of foam loose. If you have a number of tanks it works out cheaper.Also if you need to start a new tank you can transfer bits of filter media to the new tank and avoid a lot of the cycling problems.
> ...





Hi,

Thanks for your response,

Yep that's all that's in the filter, the filter came with the tank its self. They said that it was one of better ones they sell but I am not 100% convinced. 

This is it.

http://ch-layal.en.alibaba.com/prod..._pump_QD_1900F.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


Also BTW, I'm based in the UK, and would be open to suggestions about an alternative filter if needed.

Thanks


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/sub_category_psubtype.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=107&PSUBCAT=10701


A lot of people use Aquaclears. They come in an assortment of sizes and have 'sleeves' that are removed from the filter box. It has layers of filter media-- I can't remember just how many because I always use 3. I use a foam block a piece of mesh type media i cut from the aforementioned sleeve of media as well as the bio beads they have in the kit. It is a very quiet running filter too and is a hang on the back kind.
It is one of the best kind of HOB that we get. I also use the Marineland biowheel but have converted the inside media area to my own concoction. Trouble with the marineland one is that it is really noisy and the motor is slightly bigger than the Aquaclear but wears out quicker. As it is a bit bigger it also uses more power if that is a concern.
If you like the sound of watwerfalls the marineland one is the way to go but Dollar for dollar the Aquaclear is a great choice.
I also have an Eheim on one of my bigger tanks, but since I have arthritis in my hands I am not able to manage it alone.It is also too heavy for me to carry to the basement sink to service it. If it ever goes on the fritz I will be getting the big HOB Aquaclear.
FYI I have just added 2 baby goldfish to my collection. I am using an oversize marineland filter on a 5 gallon tank and using some media from my other tanks plus the Stability( bio bacteria in a bottle). The tank has cycled in just 1 week.
The baby fish are not yet the size of a golfball but in the next couple of months I will be moving them up to a bigger tank.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2011)

Hi
Thanks again for your response,

To let you know that the tank water levels have been at 0 for the last few weeks for all the tests apart from the Nitrate that is now reading at 5ppm.. I'd like to try and keep it this way and wondered, how often I should rinse out that filter sponge in old tank water? As of late I have been changing no more than 20% each week and adding 5ml of Stress Zyme, is it best to keep this up?

Thanks


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I would rinse out the filter sponge each week in old tank water.Since the tank is cycled you could stop using the Stress Zyme although it will not hurt anything if you want to keep adding it. If there is not enough ammonia for the bacteria they will die. 
On the other hand you might just want to keep the Stress Zyme for another time when you want to set up another tank.
Just use a good water conditioner that detoxifies chloramine.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2011)

mousey said:


> I would rinse out the filter sponge each week in old tank water.Since the tank is cycled you could stop using the Stress Zyme although it will not hurt anything if you want to keep adding it. If there is not enough ammonia for the bacteria they will die.
> On the other hand you might just want to keep the Stress Zyme for another time when you want to set up another tank.
> Just use a good water conditioner that detoxifies chloramine.



Hi,

Thanks for your response,

I will rinse the sponge tonight when I do the 20% water change. For water conditioner I was looking at getting either API Stress Coat or Prime?

Which would you recommend?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I personally use Prime because you use very little and our town water supply periodically injects too much chloramine into the water supply thus killing a tank or two of fish if you happen to be cleaning tanks that day. I usually use a double dose of Prime.
However I have used Aqueon with good results too.
I know some people don't think prime should be used except when you are cycling tanks, but I have spoken on the phone to the techs at Seachem for some long chats and I am quite confident that it is ok to use anytime.
COnditioners and heaters are 2 things I don't like to scimp on price wise. I buy absolutely the best I can afford. Initial outlay may be more, but if you use only a fraction of the solution you would of the cheaper conditioner, you are actually saving money.


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