# help with fish choice



## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

hi, i set up a new 10 gallon about 2 weeks ago, with plastic plants. i started with a platy and a golden chinese algae eater. i then purchased another platy, and just today i bought a headlight tail light tetra. i went home and did some research, and realized that the guy that sold me the tetra lied. he said that it was a community fish, and from what i heard it is semi agressive. i was also planning on buying a bamboo shrimp, but i dont want my tetra to attack it, or attack any other fish. i also learned that tetras are schooling fish, which he told me they werent. so now i must decide what to do with the tetra, and how to handle all my other fish. any suggestions?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Platies and tetras should be in groups of at least 6. Headlight tetras aren't semi-aggressive IME. Chinese algae eaters are very aggressive when they get older and way too big for a 10g tank. I'd take the tetra and chinese algae eater and get several more platies instead.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Hi, welcome to the site.

A 10 gallon is pretty small, so you'll be fairly limited in your choices. What you have right now, most of it is not suitable for a 10gallon. Platys will get to 3-4" long and need 20gallons+ as adults. Your CAE will get to 6" long, and also would need a bigger tank.
I've never heard of headlight tailight tetras being agressive, but you need to keep several. They are schooling fish, and by themselves they are shy and unhappy.
You could look into upgrading your tank, but I think what you should do now is return the platys and the CAE to your petstore, and get some more appropriate fish for your 10gallon.

You could get some more tetras, so you have 6-7 of them. And then you could get a centrepiece fish - a dwarf gourami, or a male betta, for example.
You could also get a group of 6 small corydoras.

And you could definitely get some bamboo shrimps if you wanted, and/or ghost shrimp.

Above all, don't rely exclusively on what petstores tell you. Most of the time they are completely or partly wrong. If you see a fish you life at your LFS, I suggest you write it down, come home and research it before putting it in your tank.

Good luck!

Oh, did you cycle your tank? If not, you should read up on the nitrogen cycle.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I have to disagree about the platies. Never seen one over 3" long, most only get to about 2.5" IME. 6-7 tetras plus a centerpiece fish would be too much for a 10g IMO.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

My LFS has some _huge_ platies (4 inches long, and quite tall), but they may be an exception to the rule. Other than those, I haven't seen any bigger than a couple inches.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I have seen 3 inch platties at my LfS that I wouldnt put in a 10, but im no community expert.

You should have no problem with the tetras, but you must take back the chinese algea eater, in addition to it getting too big, they become very agressive.


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

thanks for all the feedback. about the platies, if they really will get that big then after theyve grown i have a friend with a huge tank i could give them too, would that be okay? and the algae eater would probably be the same, because i heard it takes them a long long time to grow, unless im wrong. ive only noticed a little agression with the algae eater towards one of the platies, and im not sure if it has anything to do with this but one platy i have is the exact same color as my algae eater. and with the tetra, ive heard many things about grouping. some people told me theres a minimum of two, others ive heard at least five. im not experienced at all, so if any of this sounds wrong then please let me know. and im not quite sure what you meant about the nitrogen cycle, so if you could maybe elaborate. thanks!


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

ive seen a few other species of algae eaters-are there any maybe smaller and less agressive species?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

For a 10g tank, you're pretty limited. Otos, pitbull plecos, and rubberlip plecos are pretty much it as far as fish go. You could try some Amano and/or cherry red shrimp, they are good algae eaters.

After only 2 weeks, you really shouldn't have much of an algae problem yet so you might want to hold off getting any algae eater until/unless some shows up, and then get something that will be able to manage that particular type.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Color has nothing to do with it, Chinese algae eaters are normally agressive and get even more so, to the point of killing tankmates, as they get older and grow up (which contrary to what you've heard happens rather quickly).


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Could guppies go in there as dither fish? or Danios?


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

Rasbora's are very nice fish and hardy. Serpae's are also nice fish as well as the guppy and the platy. It is not a golden rule that you have to keep a "special" number of fish at once. If they are schooling then three at the least.

You stated that you have done your research on the fish but what about cycling your tank? have you done the research on that? It would be advisable to do this if it hasen't already been done. Look up the Nitrgen Cycle. This must be done in order to keep happy, healthy fish.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

Ackerman651 said:


> thanks for all the feedback. about the platies, if they really will get that big then after theyve grown i have a friend with a huge tank i could give them too, would that be okay? and the algae eater would probably be the same, because i heard it takes them a long long time to grow, unless im wrong. ive only noticed a little agression with the algae eater towards one of the platies, and im not sure if it has anything to do with this but one platy i have is the exact same color as my algae eater. and with the tetra, ive heard many things about grouping. some people told me theres a minimum of two, others ive heard at least five. im not experienced at all, so if any of this sounds wrong then please let me know. and im not quite sure what you meant about the nitrogen cycle, so if you could maybe elaborate. thanks![/QUOTE
> 
> Yes, the algea eater will become more aggressive as time wears on, I found this out first hand so it would be a good idea if you took this fish back but as for the rest they don't have to be in any special number as you will quickly find out. There are no golden rules on fish keeping, just the basic rules and the rest is just trial and error for the most part. Schooling fish at the least should be three or more but there again there is not a special number. Try to do all the research that you can and shift through all the babble that you come across and if you think something is not right then look it up or read a book a the libary, that way you will know for sure as you will get a lot of people that give only their advise....and most will be wrong.
> 
> ...


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

I didn't think platies got that big. I know swordtails and sailfin mollies do, but platies? 

As far as cycling, the critical thing is to stock your tank VERY slowly - a couple of fish now, a couple of fish in a few weeks. There are little bacteria in the water that convert fish wastes (ammonia - harmful to fish) to nitrite (harmful to fish) to nitrate (not very harmful to fish). This will happen naturally in your tank, but does take some time for the bacteria to grow and multiply enough to handle the fish waste. Everytime you add more fish, (or too much food) the bacteria will multiply to handle it, but again it does take some time. When people say a tank is "cycled" they mean the tank has enough bacteria to handle that amount of fish. However cycling is a process, and everytime fish are added, it will have to grow a few more bacteria.

To remove the nitrate (the end product of the cycling process) it is recommended that you do some water changing. This pulls out the dirty water, and adds fresh water. A suggested amount is 10-20 % every week or two. However, more is better. Just make sure the new water is the same temperature as the tank water, and that you treat it for chlorine/chloramine before adding. You can use a siphon or gravel vacuum for this which pulls the gunky stuff out of the gravel as well as changing the water. 

Make sure you have a bucket that you only use for fish. Nothing that would have floor cleaner or anything else in it.

The only test kit I recommend is a pH test kit. If you check the tank every week or two, you will see if it is holding steady. If it starts getting more acid than before, you probably need to do a water change.

A nice fish for a 10 is a corydoras catfish or two (they like to hang out together). They are cute, non-aggressive, and will pick up the food that falls to the bottom (No, they don't eat fish wastes, or algae).

Also when you buy fish from the store, 1) make sure nothing in the store tank has little white spots on it (ick - looks like grains of salt) and if their tanks are on a central system, don't buy any fish that day. 2) float the bag of fish in your tank for awhile to get the temperature the same 3) open the bag and add some tank water to the bag - a little at a time, so the fish gets used to your tank water gradually. That is one of the key things - change should be gradual (water changes, moving fish from the store to your tank, etc.)- otherwise the fish will suffer and maybe die.


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

a clown leco would do ok in a 10 gallon


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2006)

I agree with advice given above...take the platies back to the LFS and get 5 more tetras. Then you could add a male betta or a dwarf gourami and call it stocked. If the tank is new, you shouldn't really need an algae eater. Chinese Algae eaters get more aggressive with age. I had one that was about 4 inches and sucked on to 2 zebra danios which killed them. They like to eat the slime coat off other fish. Definitely take that guy back...he will eventually cause problems. They also get huge, about 8 inches...I've heard of them getting bigger than that, but have never seen it in person. I've personally seen a 6-7 inch one and it looked huge, so I can just imagine how a bigger would be look. 

So you are looking at:
6 Head and Tailights
1 male betta or dwarf gourami

That is a good stocking for a 10g...its not too much, but 10g tanks are small.

Also, head and tailights are not aggressive at all. I have 8 in my 55g that have been with me for over a year (first fish in the tank) and they are kept with angels, other tetras, bolivian ram...and others and I have not seen any aggression. They do like to chase after each other, but hey, what tetras dont do that. 

Enjoy the tank!

Articles on the Nitrogen Cycle:
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Cycle.htm
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Just a note, I saw two ENORMOUS platties today! They were so big I didn't know they were platies at first. They were at least 4.5" long and 2.5" high. I know that's normal, and most platies probably end up at around 2", but WOW. I wish I had had my camera!


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

alright, as far as the cycling goes, i wasnt quite sure what you meant at first, but i have made a couple water changes with a gravel vaccum tube and with a new bucket, and each time i added fish or changed water i added some chlorine and chloramine remover called start right. ive been feeding my algae eater small portions of algae wafers every week or so. from what i hear i need to take it back, so ill probably do that soon, but i really would like an algae eater if possible, are there any other species that dont get as big or are less agressive? and as far as the tetras, i understand that you typically dont mix different tetras for schools as they are different species, but would there be any other types of tetras that are maybe in the red eye catageory that would be okay to school with the headlight tail light, or are they pretty much there own species. with the platies im not quite sure yet whether or not im going to keep them for a while, would it be okay to give them away once they get too big for the tank, or should i remove them right now. and what would be an ideal shrimp for a 10 gallon. i was looking at a bamboo shrimp, but i dont know if there are any other species that would be better. i also heard they molt, and after they do would i need to take the skin out or would they eat it themselves? thanks again.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Bamboo shrimp will get much too large IMO.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2006)

> i really would like an algae eater if possible, are there any other species that dont get as big or are less agressive?


Yes, otocinclus are algae eaters that are not aggressive and only get about 1.5 inches. They are very sensitive to water quality though, so you'd need to have the tank cycled. Also, you need visible algae growth or they may not survive. I really don't consider them a beginner fish.

Do you have a test kit? One that has tests for ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte is what you need. If so, do you test your water? That is how you keep track of the cycle. I would not add any more fish until the cycle is finished.



> and as far as the tetras, i understand that you typically dont mix different tetras for schools as they are different species, but would there be any other types of tetras that are maybe in the red eye catageory that would be okay to school with the headlight tail light, or are they pretty much there own species


I would get the same kind of tetra. They are schoolers, meaning they like groups...and in a 10 gallon you really only have room for 1 school of 6. Plus, you have other fish in the tank, the platies, which could reach 2-3 inches. If you want other types of tetras, I'm afraid you'll need a bigger tank. If you don't like the Head and Tailights...take it back and get 6 tetras you do like (of the same kind).



> would it be okay to give them away once they get too big for the tank, or should i remove them right now


I'm not sure exactly how big Platies get. I guess there are different kinds (I'm not a livebearer person), but I've only heard 2-3 inches. IMO you could keep the 2 that you have with a school of 6 tetras and be alright. Do you know if they are male or female? If you have one of each, you could have problems with fry. I'm sure the parents will eat some of them, but if any survive, the tank will quickly become overstocked. You could keep 2 females or 2 males and the school of tetras and then later on get a couple otocinclus, once you know for sure that the tank is cycled.



> what would be an ideal shrimp for a 10 gallon.


Ghost shrimp, Red Cherry Shrimp, Amano shrimp, or Red Crystal shrimp would work...the latter 3 may be harder to find though. I would try ghost shrimp. Some fish like to eat shrimp, and I'm not sure if Platies are one of those fish. Ghost shrimp are pretty cheap and easy to find, so if the platies happened to eat them, it wouldn't be too devastating for you. If you buy more expensive shrimp, you sure don't want them to end up as food. 



> i also heard they molt, and after they do would i need to take the skin out or would they eat it themselves?


From what I understand about shrimp, they eat their shells, so you shouldn't remove them.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> I'm not sure exactly how big Platies get. I guess there are different kinds (I'm not a livebearer person), but I've only heard 2-3 inches.


I saw 4.5 inchers today! I believe 2-3 inches is usual, but that may just be because everyone puts them in 10gals. I don't think mollies/swords/platies belong in anything smaller than a 20...


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

I finally took back my algae eater, and exchanged him for a bamboo shrimp, and a piece of driftwood for it. so right now i have 2 platies, 1 headlight tail light tetra, and a bamboo shrimp. Im going for variety, and i know its not entirely possible with a 10 gallon, but id like to try. I would really like something else besides another fish, such as an eel or another shrimp, but as of now im lost. im not sure if an eel would work, or what other kind of shrimp i could get. a crawfish would be nice, but i heard they will kill other fish. i suppose another fish would work also, but what are some cool fish that would work right now with my aquarium.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

There aren't any eels you could get. Most are brackish and/or get quite large.
You could get more shrimp (more bamboo shrimp, amano shrimp, cherry shrimp, ghost shrimp). You should get more headlighttaillight tetras, as they need to school.

And yes, a crawfish will unfortunately eat any fish it can grab.

Zoe


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

If you are looking for an eel like fish I'd do Kuhli loaches.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

You could get a couple of African dwarf frogs for some variety. Peaceful, active, very silly fellas. Just make sure you get ADFs and not African clawed frogs, those get much too big and eat fish. ADFs don't.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2006)

You should increase the school of tetras first...before adding anything else. Get atleast 3 more. Variety is good, but you must keep the fish happy that you already have. If you don't want more tetras, give the H&T back to the LFS and get some African Dwarf frogs or something else.


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

ah thanks boxermom you sparked my memory i did see the african dwarf frogs at the pet store and i guess i just never pursued, but i think im probably gonna get one of them. dont worry, i know the difference between that and an albino clawed frog, my friend has one. i suppose ill take back my tetra since i dont have much room for a school with the fish i already have, and i may get another shrimp. so my tank will soon have 2 platies, 1 or 2 bamboo shrimp depending on if they get any new shrimp varieties in, and an african dwarf frog. would i consider it stocked, or should i get another platy or something?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Depends, are the platies male and female or both the same sex? If they are male/female, I'd consider it stocked since you will soon have a million fry.  If they are of the same sex, you could get a couple more of the same sex and consider it stocked IMO.


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

alright, i went to the pet store and got 2 african dwarf frogs and some frozen bloodworms for them, and i really wanted an algae eater and the guy there said he would get 2 oto somethings he said to just call them oto catfish but im not sure how much more i can get before its stocked. about the male and female platy thing ill have to check, is there anyway to tell? also he said to get one or two more headlight and tail light tetras since theyre schooling fish. would 2 platies, 1 shrimp, 2 tetras, 2 african dwarf frogs, and 2 oto catfish be too much for a 10 gallon? im hoping to get a larger tank but im not sure if its going to happen yet. also about the feeding of the frogs the guy said to give them one of the cubes every other day and i put one in today and one of them pigged out, it looked like he ate more than the size of his gut. would every other day be good, or does it need to be smaller portions or something else?


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2006)

yeh stupid


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I'd get either four tetras or four platies, not two of each. The otos stay tiny so they'll be fine in a 10g.

Cubes of frozen bloodworms? One whole cube is far too much, cut it in thirds and stick the other two thirds in a Ziploc bag and put it back in the freezer. Once a day is fine, if they overeat, skip a day or two. They can go several days without eating and be fine (mine sometimes go 4 days).


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

wow yeah i guess i overfed, put a whole cube in. had i known i wouldnt have done it, but the petstore worker said one cube every two days-shows how much they know. do you think the frogs will be fine if i dont feed them for a few days? im also starting to feel a bit guilty about dumping my fish in there after two days of having my tank. i still have one of the first fish, my platy, and my other platy was in about at 2 weeks, tetra at 2 and a half, shrimp at 3 weeks, and now my frogs at almost 4. ive been using start right, and changing water, but im still nervous. will the fish i put in be fine, or are they gonna die/not be well? I dont want to be accused as a fish killer, i just didnt know. i thought the people at the store knew what they were talking about. and as for what i would like to get heres what i invision having soon, let me know if this is overstocked or bad combination- 3 platies, 2 headlight tail light tetras, 2 bamboo shrimp, 2 otto catfish, and two african dwarf frog. i really appreciate all the help you guys have given me.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

They'll be fine skipping a day or two of food.

The fish you used for cycling, if they survive, are likely to have health issues and unfortunately will most likely not live their full lives. Don't feel too bad though, you didn't know. Just don't do it anymore. 

Platies and tetras are schooling fish and are best in groups of more than 2-3. Having both types, in addition to everything else, will definitely be overstocked IMO. I'd choose one or the other and get no more than four, max. Personally, I'd recommend the tetras, as with the platies, you are likely to have a bunch of fry to deal with. Tetras aren't as big at procreating. 

You should definitely look into getting a bigger tank though, especially if you want to keep the shrimp. Bamboo shrimp get quite large, too big for a 10g IMO.


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

bad news. im almost positive my shrimp died. i woke up this morning and he was laying on his side in the gravel (which he never does, hes always on his wood). some of my fish budged him a little and i dont think he moved on his own, could it possibly be because hes molting? i know hes probably not, and if he is dead do you have any idea how he could have died? my only idea is starvation, but the petstore person said it feeds off anything in the tank (floating things, leftover food). should i have been feeding him shrimp pellets or something?


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

Boxermom nailed it in her first post


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

im not quite sure which one is her "first" post, she has a lot. could you maybe elaborate?


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

for some reason last night i went to get my shrimp out of the tank and my frog wouldnt get off him. i didnt want to net the frog and move him because hes so small and fragile, and hes not scared of the net. i had to wait until morning to get him, and even then he was close, but o well its over. i still have no idea how he died, any ideas would be nice, so i dont make the same mistake if i get another one. i really liked the shrimp and would like to get another, but i wanna know what i did wrong if i did before i get another one. everything else is going great in my tank.


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

for some reason last night i went to get my shrimp out of the tank and my frog wouldnt get off him. i didnt want to net the frog and move him because hes so small and fragile, and hes not scared of the net. i had to wait until morning to get him, and even then he was close, but o well its over. i still have no idea how he died, any ideas would be nice, so i dont make the same mistake if i get another one. i really liked the shrimp and would like to get another, but i wanna know what i did wrong if i did before i get another one. everything else is going great in my tank.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Bamboo shrimp are filter feeders and in general should be in a well-stocked, planted tank. Are you sure it was the shrimp and not the molted shell?


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## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

although ive never seen the shell, im sure it was the body. when i picked it up off the side of the tank i poked it a little with the net and it stayed strong, didnt like break off or anything. and when you say well stocked, what exactly do you mean by that?


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## PlatyLady (Oct 27, 2006)

I realize that this is an old post, but IMO platies are just fine in a ten gallon, as long as you don't try to overstock. A good rule of thumb for guppies and platies is one fish per gallon of water, taking into account the tank mates' needs. I have four platies living peacefully in a 10g with two golden algae eaters and an albino cory (although the algae eaters are temporary-just waiting for them to get big enough to go into 175g).


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