# Swordtail fry and ick



## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a 10 gallon tank with a lot of swordtail fry in a breeder, the swordtail mother, 2 catfish, and a barb. Yesterday i found the barb dead and saw signs of ick on the mother swordtail. I have the swordtail and catfish in ick out right now, but i don't know what to do with the baby swordtails. They are about a month old and they aren't showing any signs of ick that i know of. The fry are in the 10 gallon tank and the other fish are in a different tank with the ick medicine. what should i do with the fry? should i give them ick medicine. I also read somewhere that i can give them aquarium salt. How much should i put in for a 10 gallon tank? Thanks for any help.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Swordtail fry are tough and can prob. take the ich meds. The "salt cure" is also safe to use as swordtails don't mind salt at all. 1 tsp / gallon is a normal amount of salt for swordtails or goldfish. 1 tablespoon and even more are safe for swordtails and high levels and high temps are part of the "salt cure" for ich. Don't add more than 1 tsp/gallon/hour. Do you have a good, adjustable heater in the tank? If you decide to try the "salt cure", search the web for step by step instructions for curing ich with salt and heat. Also add additional aeration if you can.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

The thing is, i'm not home during the day, so doing the 1 tsp/hour thing would be really hard for me. One question though, is ich transferred through water of through contact? Also, i see no signs of ich on any of the fry. None of them have died yet. So, should I wait until I see signs of it? Thanks for the reply.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ich have several stages. Only one lives attached to the fish, another swims in the water, and another sits around on gravel and plants. Do you have another tank? There is one ich cure that involves simply moving the fish from tank to tank every day. A tank without fish will become ich-free. Fish that are healthy and not stressed may resist ich and not get visibly sick. If you want to wait until the fry are bigger before treating, you can take the risk, but if you put other fish in that tank, they will prob. get ich. 1 tsp/gallon/hour. You could put in 5 tsp every 1/2 hour. The heat/salt cure requires slowly raising the temp. also, but I think you could also do it in the evening. Are the fry scratching themselves on ornaments or gasping or showing redder gills than usual? You really don't want to wait until you see white spots to treat. Its not an easy call because most ich treatments have some toxicity, but if you see any "warning signs" definitely treat. Are the other fish responding to treatment? There is a lot of chatter this year about ineffective treatments and drug-resistant ich and ich-mimicking diseases.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Read the stickies at the top of the disease section. http://www.fishforums.com/forum/diseases/20345-great-ich-guide.html


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

When I got home today I found the mother swordtail and both catfish dead from the ich. However, I still see no signs of ich on the swordtail fry. Should I not worry about it, or should I do something?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Read the ich guide, first. If your treatment didn't work on the adults, don't try the same thing on the fry. I would definitely add 10 teaspoons of aquarium salt to the tank with the fry (this is completely safe) and then consider trying the "salt cure" or the "heat cure" as described in the guide. 
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My recommendation* is to do the salt/heat thing in the fry tank. Fry have less trouble with heat than adults do and swordtails take salt really well. Do a large water change first, then add salt in 5 or 6 tsp increments and increase the temp. in 2 degree increment (at least 30 minutes apart) until you are at 82 degrees and 30 teaspoons (10 tablespoons). Slow down the process if the fry look stressed or unhappy. Keep it for up there for 10 days and then decrease it gradually with 10-25% salt-free water changes every day. Halfway through the 10 days, do a water change, but add enough salt to the new water to keep the % then same and use new water of the same temp. 

Treat the other tank (now fishless, right?) with ich meds as directed for 10 days and crank the temp up to 90 degrees and then break it down and let everything dry all the way out. I know the guide says ich will go away with no fish, but why not be thorough.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

Ok, there are a few problems. Because it's the summer my tank is already around the 82 degree mark because the room the fish are in gets very hot during the day. Also I only have one tank. I had the other fish in a fish bowl with the ich meds.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ok, run the fish bowl through the dishwasher then rinse before use. Add salt to your fry tank and leave the temp. alone. Obviously the temp. isn't hurting them. I don't think salt will either. If you add new fish to a tank that had ich and has live fish, you will most likely get ich in the new fish. I suggest you get the salt up to 1 tablespoon per gallon for a few weeks and then let it come down with water changes. Don't add any fish for a month or so. You might want to keep just the fry and let them grow up.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

Yeah, I wasnt planning on buying any new fish for a while. So, I should just add 10 tablespoons of salt to the water? Do i have to add more salt as time passes? How often should i do water changes and how much should i change? I have the stress coat stuff to get chemicals out of tap water, but it expired a long time ago, is it still usable, or should i buy more?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Do a big water change (50%) before you start. Use any chlorine/chloramine remover that you trust. I don't know what age does to stress coat, so if there is any doubt, buy some new (any brand). Add 2-3 tablespoons of aquarium or marine salt at a time wait an hour and repeat until you hit 10. In a week, change 10% and put 1 tablespoon of salt in to keep it at the same rate. After another week, change 30% and don't put any salt in the new water. Then change 30% two more times and you will be down to a reasonable salt level. Then you can go back to a normal schedule, 10% weekly is usually good. You can put in 1 tsp of salt with your weekly water change and your swords will have a little salt to keep them healthy.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

Ok, I have the fry in a breeder in the tank because i don't want them to get sucked into the filter. I should be keeping them in the tank while i do all of this right? I also read that i should stir up the gravel when i do the water change to get any of the parasites that are on the bottom. Should I do this? And is it safe to do with the fry in the tank? Thanks.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

A gravel-washer is a great thing to siphon your water change water out with. It should help you suck up debris and ich while leaving the gravel in the tank. Better than just stirring up the gravel. Get a sponge pre-filter for your filter intake or make one with an aquarium filter sponge, then you can let the fry out.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

And i do keep the fish in the tank while i do the salt and water changes, right?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes. Hopefully when you are done, both the tank and the fry will be ich-free and stay that way.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

Ok, thanks for all of your help. I'll post back here if i run into any problems and with how it goes.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm still a little reluctant to do this because the fry are showing no signs of ich at all. None have died since they were born, and i can't see any white spots.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Get a second opinion from TOS or someone you trust. I recommended salt because I think it is very safe for swords. Most effective ich meds do have some risk to the fish. I don't know enough to calculate the risk of ich getting the fry, but I think if it does, it will be fatal.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

So, i dont have to worry about the salt hurtting the fry?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think its safe or a I wouldn't have suggested it. Why don't you go in chat and ask some other people.


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## fiftyfour123 (Aug 4, 2008)

I think i'll do it. I did some research and saw this method, so it should be safe. Thanks again.


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