# Loaches



## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

How big do yo yo loaches grow and would they be alright in a 35 gallon tank?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

And plus are they hard to find?


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## Chrispy (Oct 28, 2007)

depends on the type of loach?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

yo yo loach(pakistani loach)


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

about 5" and there at every lfs in my area.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Do you think they'd be ok in a 10 gallon tank with 4 zebra danios?


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

they get too big for a 10g, but would be okay in a 35


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok thanks


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

What would you say the best loach is and the smallest easy to find loach?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2008)

kuhlis..small, extremely easy to find. Clown come in second, but get pretty big.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I would hardly call clowns small. Khulies and dojos stay pretty small, but I would recommend a 20 as the minimum for most loaches.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Sorry for going off the loaches subject but I have a malawi cichlid tank and my electric yellow lad and red top zebra mated, i had loads of baby fry but when i went to give them to the local fish store they wouldn't accept them...they said they didn't like hybrids. Why dont people like hybrids?


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

i love hybrids.you could put 7 at most of black kuhli loaches.they wont eat any fry and usually hunt at night.you could put 3-4 clown loaches in a 35 gallon.it would take 3 years for them to grow out of that.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for agreeing with me, other members say the tank is definately not big anough but they are slow growers! I still dont understand why some people dont like hybrids?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2008)

you could also keep a shark in a 10 gallon if you wanted. is it right? no, is it good? no

The WHOLE point behind the fish hobby is to provide the BEST living environment for these LIVING animals. just cause you can cram something into a tank, doesn't mean you should. If you don't have the proper size tank for a certain fish, then you have no business owning that kind of fish. there are thousands of other fish that you can have that will go in your tanks, stick with them .

Now to the hybrids.. again thousands of other fish, pure fish. Hybrids cause problems with messing up genes, then they get sold as pure fish to someone who wants to breed, and again messes things up. NO reason to have hybridized fish. if you want to breed something, work on preserving the thousands of beautiful species that exist with out hybridization. I wouldn't want to buy fish knowing that there is a possibility that they aren't exactly what they are listed as. 
Hybrid fish should not be sold, if it happens in your tank, a) leave them there, or b) cull them.
Just my opinion though


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Nathanbarry, just because 1 newer person gave the go ahead (in regards to clown loaches) because they are not very well informed. Does not cancel out all of the correct information the majority of us have given you...

Don't thank them, they are wrong, we have told you whats correct. If you want a loach that has the same body shape as a clown go for the Yo-yo's in the 35.. not a 10.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Dude, for a 10g, dont get any loaches, they are very active and a 10g is too small for anything but a couple khulies.


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

+1 to Mike. Hybrid fry make great food for other predators in your collection.

I don't think any clowns should be kept in any tank under a few hundred gallons. At times the pack I have makes my 450 look small.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I know im going off the subject but do leopard danios or zebra danios help cycle your tank.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I wondered if they cycled your tank because ive just had some to help my tank??


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Any fish can help cycle a tank because it will produce ammonia. Using a fish to cycle a tank can cause health problems because it exposes the fish to harmful ammonia and nitrite levels, which even in small amounts burns their gills causing gill damage. This is the main reason why most individuals here at FF suggest a fishless cycle, which accomplishes the goal without stressing or harming fish.


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

When you add a fish to your tank they just add poop so you get ammonia in there. So basically any fish will help cycle a tank.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2008)

I wouldn't even put Yoyo loaches in a 35g tank. They are very active fish and IME need a 4ft long tank full grown because of their activity. You also should be careful what you keep with them because they can harass some fish and may stress others out because of their energy level.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok...i agree. I have just had 2 khuli loaches in my 10 gallon and when they get bigger i will move them into the bigger tank, they are mostly hiding all day...is this normal...? Also if you have any information you can give me on them it would be helpful


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2008)

Kuhlis hide alot. They do need groups to feel more secure, so you should consider getting a few more. They may come out more with a larger group. In a 10g, you should be able to keep 6 of them in there for awhile....atleast until they get bigger. I know alot of people keep them in there forever, but really a 20g would be best IMO.

They would be better loaches for your 35g instead of Clowns or Yoyos. You could have a really large group of them in the 35g.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for the Information...i shall remember that Say if you have 1 clown loach and you are getting some different style of loach, would they shoal together??


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2008)

Probably not. Its best to stick to the same type of loaches and have a big group of them. Skip the clowns.


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Nathan, for this point in your life, your going to need to forget about the clowns.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I will do


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I have recently got 2 khuli loaches and only see the one at night but i haven't seen the other one since i bought it (yesterday morning), i think it has disapered..where would it have gone?


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2008)

It is most likely under some decorations or buried in the substrate. They are really good at hide and seek. 

Check around the tank to make sure it didn't jump out. Like I said before, they hide alot, especially in lower numbers. Try to get a few more when possible.

Keep checking your water parameters because your tank was not cycled. Loaches are not as hardy as other fish, so do water changes whenever you see ammonia and nitrite in the tank.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok...Do they normally jump out of tanks because i do have a small gap at the top of the tank? My 10 gallon is cycled and has been for months, it was the 35 gallon that wasn't?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

please help.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2008)

They don't _normally_ jump out, but sometimes they will. If you only have a small gap, then chances are its still in the tank. Check under all your decorations and maybe run your hands a bit through the gravel (carefully) because they are really good at hiding.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

They are EXTREMELY good at hiding. When I worked at petc0, we got in an order of kuhli loaches, and then never saw them again. They're slippery and sneaky, and they burrow deep into the gravel. We found them in the sumps under the tanks from time to time, god knows how they got down there, but every now and then one would pop out of the gravel. Scour the tank (lightly) they're in there somewhere.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks...also, how big do gold rams grow?


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2008)

Gold Rams get about 2.5" full grown.....maybe a tad less than that.

Don't put one in your 10g.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Interesting...Kristin, I've heard of several people keeping breeding pairs of Rams in their 10 gallon tanks. Is it really too small? Or is it just for experienced aquarists only? Just curious.


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

clown loaches do grow slow!ive been on here for about 2 years.i had to make a new acount because i forgot my pass!i have had 8 clown loaches for 6 years in a 180 gallon and they are only 6 nches!


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Just curious vettech909, what was your previous user name?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ill take that in mind, also....what fish would be good in a 10 gallon tank?


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2008)

trashion said:


> Interesting...Kristin, I've heard of several people keeping breeding pairs of Rams in their 10 gallon tanks. Is it really too small? Or is it just for experienced aquarists only? Just curious.


10g is the minimum to breed them in, but I would get a 20g instead, just for extra room. 

With other fish in the tank, I don't suggest you put a Blue/Gold Ram in a 10g. 10g tanks can get overstocked really fast and with any lack of maintenance, you'll have a crash, since the water volume is small. Also, Rams are fiesty for their small size and if they take to chasing something or act aggressively, there isn't room to hide in a 10g.

For an experienced aquarist, breeding Blue or Gold Rams in a 10g is fine.



Nathan, how many Kuhlis and Danios are in the 10g right now?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I have 2 kuhli's and 2 danios, thats all but im not sure what else to put in?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Do you have any ideas?


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## mesapod (Aug 18, 2007)

maybe get a few more danios so they have a school of like 5


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Im not sure, something more colourful and bigger?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

something a bit bigger than a neon but with more personality..is there anything you can think of?


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

We would rather you have happy fish.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2008)

Get a few more Danios and a few more Kuhlis. Both of them need groups to feel comfortable, so you need to get more of the same types. Then you'll be stocked and won't have room for anything else. If you want more fish, get a larger tank than a 10g for those fish.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

After all of that worrying my 1 kuhli has now turned up when i couldn't find it anywhere before..thanks for calming my nerves!


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I would like some advise...i was going to move my kuhli loaches and danios into my 35 gallon and get more of them. What would be best to have in the 10g? How about 2 yoyo loaches on their own and move them out when they get bigger?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ive changed my mind now and am going to have 2 yoyo loaches in the 35g with the kuhli's...will they shoal together if i only have 1 or would it make it feel safer being with another loach??


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

..........?


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2008)

They probably won't shoal together. Yoyos are more aggressive and pushy than Kuhlis. 

I don't suggest having Yoyos in a 35g tank. They really need a 4ft tank full grown because of their activity level and attitudes.

If you can find Dwarf Chain Loaches, they'd be a better choice. Or just move the Kuhlis and get a bunch more of those.

For the 10g, you are very limited. I wouldn't put any loaches in there (after you more the Kuhlis). You could have a school of Rasboras and maybe a Honey Gourami.


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## Madam Macaw (Jan 29, 2008)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Kuhlis hide alot. They do need groups to feel more secure, so you should consider getting a few more. They may come out more with a larger group. In a 10g, you should be able to keep 6 of them in there for awhile....atleast until they get bigger. I know alot of people keep them in there forever, but really a 20g would be best IMO.
> 
> They would be better loaches for your 35g instead of Clowns or Yoyos. You could have a really large group of them in the 35g.


I have been following this thread and wonder if I should get some kuhlis instead of another group of corys. They are really nice looking, so I will definitely need to read up on them a bit. What do you think? I am not adding anything yet.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Just wondering, are skunk loach aggresive and could you tell me a bit about them? Example:- How big do they grow?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Google. It's your friend.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ive checked google but different websites say different things and i dont know what the actual answer is?


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

They grow around 3 to 4 inches (if i remember correctly) and can be quite agressive I asked around awhile back and people asked me if i was stupid because they are NOT a community fish.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for that anyway, bit dissapointed because them not being a community fish.


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

They'd probly work in your 55g with the parrot fish.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I wouldn't mind that but im having nitrite trouble at the moment but when it gets sorted i might take that in mind. Do they hide all day or come out and swim up the glass like clown loaches?


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

Haha clown loaches actually hide most of the time (well their supposed to) but mine don't either. I think they're like cories, they like groups and just pile on top of each other I'm not 100% sure I've never owned them I just researched them.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok, thanks...I think its what the clown loaches are meant to do, how big are yours?


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

2" and 3 or 4" I only have 2 and I need a bigger tank I know.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Im the same, i have 3 at about 2 inches in a 35 gallon. They will be going into a bigger tank soon though


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

When I got my clowns they would hide (3 at about 1.5") a lot until I got a 4" to add with them and they would go out as long as the large one was out. Now that there all at least 5-6" they are out all day unless sleeping in a pile and when i walk by they all come up to the glass.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Cool..mine come out but as soon as you go up to the tank they hide. Ive only had them 1 week so it this normal?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Hey, i have 1 polka dot botia in my 55 gallon and a day after i had the two, one jumped out the tank and died. Since then (3 weeks ago) it hasn't come out at all and isn't eating much. Should i take it back to the store because i dont want a fish that hides all the time??


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Then you really should do your research. Most of my catfish/loaches hide all the time, its what they do. I wouldnt keep the loach alone, get it some friends or return it.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I think i am going to return it. My 10 gallon has quite a lot of algae that keeps coming back, is there something that would clean it?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Your hand with a scrubbing pad 

The only fish you should add to the 10g are more danios and kuhlis to complete their schools.

If you have an algae problem, solve the problem-not the symptom. Algae comes from too much light plus too many nutrients. How often do you do waterchanges on the tank?


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Well the light is quite bright and is on from 8am till 10pm...i do waterchanges once a week.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

8-10 is wayyy too long. Cut it down to 8-10 hours, that's probably the source of your algae.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks, my uncle has a CAE and wants to get rid of it..its 2 " long. I thought of putting it in the 10 gallon to get the algae off glass, gravel etc, and then moving it in my 55g?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

CAEs don't really eat much algae from what I've seen, and as they grow up, they'll start killing your fish. I don't recommend them for anyone.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok. Well how about an oto?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Otos need groups of at least three, and they're VERY sensitive to water quality, among other things. They don't eat all algae, just soft green algae (not green spot) I've never been able to keep them alive longer than 2 months--if you read the boards you'll find this is very common. They've just got a way of dropping dead for no reason.

Seriously, as long as you keep up your WCs and limit the photoperiod of your lights, you shouldn't have an algae problem.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ill cut down the lights then..i have hair algae


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Very few algae eaters will dine on hair algae, though I've heard livebearers/barbs tend to love it. DON'T add them to your 10g though, you really need to add more Danios.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Well my danios are going into my sisters 5g because at the moment she's only got 4 zebra danios and so for the 10g i was going to get a couple of platies??


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2008)

Danios need a bigger tank than 5g, so if she wants to keep them, she should upgrade. Really, a 20g would be the best minimum since these fish are active. 5g is way too small for Danios or Neons.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Well, tomorrow she's going to get a 25g she's seen. Well will i be able to have some platies with my 2 kuhli's?


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2008)

You might be ok with a trio of Platies. I wouldn't have more than that though, since they may breed. Get 2 females and a male.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok..well i want them to breed and will keep the fry in the 5g when empty, then sell them to my LFS.


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