# LFS's: Have they lead you down the wrong path?



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

*LFS's: Have they led you down the wrong path?*

I'm doing a paper on ethics of aquatic retailers... and I've decided to take a poll. Answer this question honestly... and if you don't know, thats fine as well!


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I was once told by a LFS employee that he would be comfortable selling me a fish with visible ich cysts, for example. I refused, naturally...


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

We still have lfs who tell you cycle works, let the tank run for 24-48 hrs and then add fish, Bala sharks make great aquarium fish, and Oscars fit in 20 gallon high tanks because they have more vertical room. I could go on for hrs typing but I wont.


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

See I dont remember all i remember is she was a hot LFS employee and i woulda done anything she said


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## craftyflalady (Jan 25, 2006)

_Your such a perv Marty! ;-) 

I was once told you never have to do water changes when you use an UGF! Oh...and Gold fish and Angelfish can live together too! I have no problem letting them know when they are wrong either! ;-)_


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

lol... all wonderful stories...


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2006)

too many times to count.
too many stories to type. lol


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

I was once told that if the filter was on for 24 hrs then the tank would be considered cycled.
I was also told that i could keep a few koi in a 10 gallon tank.

Insanity!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

How do you tell unethical from ignorant and unwilling to admit they know nothing?


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

I voted yes.

Paul, if you ever need me to tell you how (whatever, etc.)just send me a message sometimes, just don't feel like typing things out right now...have way too many experiences with lfs's .


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

emc7 said:


> How do you tell unethical from ignorant and unwilling to admit they know nothing?


Yes or No :chair: :chair: :chair: :chair: :chair:


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I meant both ignorance AND purposefully...


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

I have absolutely no experience setting up a SW tank. After reading up on fish compatibilty and MINIMUM tank size requirements of certain marine fishes, I asked a lfs owner what other fish I can house in a 30 gallon tank if I had a pair of O. Clowns and a Coral Beauty angel. I was floored when he told me a Yellow Tang will be a nice addition with them.


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## rcomeau (Apr 23, 2006)

I've heard ''let the tank run for 24-48 hrs and then add fish'' quite a few times. It is a friendly suggestion that, at best, makes the buyer aware that there are concerns about getting a tank started. Albeit, mention of the 24-48 hrs chlorine-disipation concern pales in comparison to how they should be responsible for making the buyer aware of the month required to establish a biological filter. The closest, and in my opinion best, advice for getting a biological filter established during the first month was providing a caring-for-fish hand out. In know one LFS keeps them by the register. To be fair, most people are not prepared for getting a deep lesson on cycling and understanding it when they ask a simple question like ''how much for that tank''. When someone doesn't know what a biological filter is then mention of it for the first time likely only suceeds in having them relate to the topic with a current understanding of a mechanical filter. When I was getting started I remember that I had to visit the topic quite a few times before it sunk in that the filter needed to do more than mechanically filter out solid waste by biologically filtering using grown bacteria. (I went through three starts - fish bowl, small tanks cycled using fish with failures, and fishless cycling of a 50 gallon tank.)

It is likely that many people sucessfully keep fish without even realizing that there is biological filtration going on. These forums contain many posts about it yet people don't learn from them before posting ''I cleaned my filter now why is the water cloudy white'' only to get the ''you cleaned out too much bacteria, your tank is cycling again'' answer.

Negotiation classes teach the concept that sellers typically don't believe that they lie. They believe that they tell the truth and it is not their fault that the buyer did not understand.

(I have never worked for a LFS.) What is fare caveat emptor given the complexities of cycling? Exactly what is responsible to tell customers? Is anyone suggesting that only fishless cycling should be recommended? If not, should they be suggesting a concept of purchasing cheap fish because they might die? I'm not so sure it is fare to expect a store to be communicating the potential for death. Characterizing the problem (dishonest LFSs) should come with some recommendations to solve it.

The easiest solution would be for them to sell an easy way of establishing a biological filter. My understanding there is that many products don't actually work because the pertinent bacteria only survives if it is refrigerated. Similarly, suggestions have been made to get some of the water from the LFS because it contains bacteria to get a cycle started at the risk that it contains diseases. When they do work, the bacteria provided still takes many days to establish enough to be effective.

Also pertinent to this topic is what is said to customers returning with dead fish situations. The process there is that the LFS offers to be good by offering to test the water to find out what your problem is. Again, they give prudent advise about making the next proper step in the hobby... not an entire lesson.


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## MiSo (May 3, 2005)

i've only asked for advice once and got really good advice.

but usually, i wont get into much conversation with lfs employees because i'm scared they might say something really dumb and i dont really want to be bothered by them. 

usually when i go to a fish store i know what i want or i'm just browsing.


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## Ringo (Apr 10, 2006)

They told me vinegar would work for lowering water hardness.....


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## coral333 (Oct 24, 2006)

My small lfs here in town now carries tatooed parrot cichlids, my wife asked them why they would sell them and they're response was "its a hot item and everyone is asking for them" nevermind everyone of them had ich and will probably die beause there immune system is exausted. We wont be going back till they stop buying them.


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## aaa (Jan 19, 2005)

some lfs are really good, they really know their stuff. some just try to sell the stuff and there is also some that they are not trying to be unethnical, but the people work there doesn't have a clue what they are doing. you can't expect someone answer your fish question while they can't even bag the fish right.

speaking of the tattoo fish.... i finally saw them and it is ugly as hell. i don't really understand... you inject something in the fish and most of them died and the other make their way to petstore and then a lot died and no one buy them... it is cruel to fish and it doesn't sound very cost effective to me at all... lfs who brought them in are idoits, people who "invent" this kind of fish should be torture and died in a very painful way and people who buy them must have a really bad taste.


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## Daniel1 (Aug 30, 2006)

ive gone to many LFS and there are some that give good advice and others that really dont...the worst expierence ive had with an LFS employee was when i started in this hobby which was about 6 months ago..i went to buy a white skirt tetra..and when the guy was bagging the fish...the fish started banging against the bag...and to calm the fish he couldnt find other method and started banging the bag against a table...i was like what the..... are you doing....then it was either taking poor fish or leaving it with those people..i chose taking him and right now he is healthy , active and bigger....
i never went to that LFS ever again.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Keep those votes commin


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