# cycling update!



## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i've been told by my LFS to keep my ammonia below .50. ok, well in order to do this i have to do like a 50% water change every day! it's usually .5 before the change, and obviously less than .5 after the change. i just feel this an abnormally large quantity of water to be changing every day. i may have VERY SLIGHTLY overfed the first few days, but not real bad. i've barely been feeding them lately, and still the crazy ammonia. another weird thing is that i used to have nitrites. now today i just tested 0 nitrites!, and 10 or 20 ppm nitrates! (i can never tell the difference between 10 and 20. i may be color blind). yet i still have the ammonia! isn't the ammonia supposed to reach 0 before or at the same time as the nitrites!! what is going on, please help! it's been cycling for over 2 weeks! is this bad?


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

If you must do a daily water change, do a 15%. Save the bacteria this, faster and better for the fish that.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

so what if i do 15-20% water changes every day, but my ammonia still climbs too high? then do maybe like a 75% change? at what ammonia level should i do the 75% water change. i really don't want to lose any fish during this cycling process. so what does .5 ammonia/ 0 nitrites/ and 10-20 nitrates tell you? is it good or bad? it's been cycling for almost 3 weeks now.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

you know what the espies are breathing hard, and wont eat. i think they are stressed from too many water changes. i just shut off the light and will do less water changes. got a new heater (fluval) today as well, so the temp was about 79 (trying to set it) which is a few degrees higher than usual. i turned the temp down, and the light off. i hope they are ok in the morning. should i check them quick before bed to see if they are breathing better? this sucks


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i'm going to be really pissed off if they die because i have been trying really hard with this tank.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Stability is better than appropriate levels. Take my pH 8.2ish school of neon tetras! Gradually raise the temperature, gradually cut back on water changes, and your fish will gradually feel better! And yes, I used the same four syllable word three times in a sentence!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Keep ammonia down with waterchanges, even big ones or use an 'ammonia detoxifier' such as Prime or Amquel+ to help fish survive cycling. or do both. A couple warnings, they can change your ammonia test results with some tests and can deplete the oxygen in water if you do a large change. 

Nitrites go up as ammonia goes down, nitrates go up as nitrite goes down. Getting nitrates is good, it means something is eating your nitrites, but still having ammonia means you aren't cycled yet. It can take up to 3 months, even with nothing going wrong and having to start over. Its weird that nitrite-eaters got established before the ammonia eaters took off, but its not impossible. If you don't see ammonia start to stay down soon, make sure there is nothing rotting in the tank generating ammonia, no ammonia in your tap water, and consider 'helping' the cycle with something like Stability or safe-start. Its also possible to have a filter too small for the amount you feed, but you're list is pretty short.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Bailey could you give us some more info on your tank. That would help

Size tank?
What fish?
How many?
Filter?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

its in the sig. but what are espies?


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

espie rasboras, or something spelled like that (small/ orange/with blue stripe). that's what i did. i depleted the oxygen in the tank. OMG they were so freaking pale last night, i thought they were done, but THEY ALL ARE HERE THIS MORNING!!. they are still pale, but better than last night. i hope since they made it through the night they will make it indefinitely. i will try some ammonia detoxifier, if needed. or even just some safe start at this point cause i don't want to loose any fish. i've been worried more about the levels, than the stability of the tank. it's just that when you first get into this hobby, everyone tells you something different, so i kind of didn't know what to do. i will focus on stability now, and try to be less stupid (ha!). appreciate ALL the help. they will all make it through this cycling process. i have faith. the fact that they made it through the night says a lot to me, because they looked really bad last night.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

whenever i start another tank from now on, it will be started without fish, or it will be started via safestart....ect with fish. i will never cycle another tank with fish in it without using safestart or stability.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

emc7 Its weird that nitrite-eaters got established before the ammonia eaters took off said:


> the LFS gave me this brown smelly stuff from a labeled bottle (don't know what it's called). maybe that's how i got the nitrates


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

baileysup said:


> whenever i start another tank from now on, it will be started without fish, or it will be started via safestart....ect with fish. i will never cycle another tank with fish in it without using safestart or stability.


Yea, its worth the extra 10-12 bucks for a piece of mind... and less headache.

But once you get more exp, you will find that cycling with/without fish its nothing really to it. If you cycle with fish just make sure you got some hardy fish. Right now im cycling with a school of Columbian Tetras, these guys are hardy fish. But the key is, when you try too hard something always goes wrong. Just let it come natural and follow all the great advice on this forum, cuz chances are the people here have alot more exp then the LFS guys!


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

ok, here we go: 

PH - 6.0 (always had low PH. fish don't seem to mind it)
ammonia - .50
nitrites - 0
nitrates - 20

would anyone like to suggest any courses of action to be taken today. small water change? or leave it alone and maybe a small water change tomorrow?
ammonia detoxifier? or straight up safestart/stability?

also, my API master test kit did come with 4 glass tubes. does it matter that i use the same glass tube for all tests? i thoroughly rinse it out in between tests, and seem to be getting accurate results using just the one tube (the other 3 as spares). or should each tube be dedicated to each specific chemical test?

also, the nitrites are not responsible for detoxifying the ammonia, correct? isn't that another form of bacteria? only asking because i used to have nitrites, but with all of my previous water changes, they've seemed to have been wiped out (0 nitrites for 2 days now). will the nitrites return with 20ppm nitrate in the tank?

too many questions for one post, i know. you have my apologies, but i would really like to learn this stuff.

UPDATE! my espies have returned to their bright orange and blue color (hardy little guys. they looked like ghosts last night they were so pale)! they have assured me of their survival for my mistake yesterday (too many water changes). never will i change that much continuous water in a fish tank again.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

i should have read the "nitrogen cycle" sticky thread more carefully. just found out that when cycling with fish, they are likely to be damaged at least, even if done right. i was not aware of this until now, and do not consider my fish to be expendable. i think it's time for Tetra SafeStart or Stability (who makes Stability.....API?). anyway, my PetSmart only carries the SafeStart. it doesn't matter which one i get right? they both work well, right?


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## chronoboy (Jan 17, 2011)

In my preference, even with useing products like safe start I'll still wait about a week before adding a fish just to make sure that I dont get any ammonia spikes, and I still even only put in hardy fish for the first few weeks untill I get stable reading, I usually use like cheap feeder goldfish when I do a cycle with fish, just cause thier hardy and produce alot of ammonia and waist, and when I'm done cycling I usually just throw them out in the pond when done with them, only reason why I still have them in my tank now is cause I just moved and havnt built me a pond yet.


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## Cichlid Dude! (Mar 15, 2011)

*Nite-Out*

What do you think of Nite-Out? it seemed to work fine in my tank, i just want another opinion


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

well i tested today and my nitrites have been 0 for three days now (this is good right?). my ammonia actually did NOT go up from yesterday :shock:......and remained at .5 .this is the first time i've seen some stabilization with my ammonia levels. do you think i'm close here, or should i just get the darn safestart, and get it over with. the fish would be ok at .5 , right?


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

tested a second time yesterday, and ammonia was around .75, so i did a 20% water change and called it a night. will test again later today. i'm also going to pick up an airstone cause i think it would be a good idea. and with the large temperature fluctuations in my living room at night, i just covered the tank with a thick blanket before bed and what do you know? the temp was PERFECT when i got up in the morning (instead of going down 10 degrees!). now i know what to do when it gets cold at night. also i will start feeding every other day, as i heard that this would be fine, and it should help with ammonia levels.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Give it another day and see if ammonia levels finally drop. You may be getting there.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

tested water today and the levels were:

ammonia: 1
nitrites: 0

did a 20 % water change , and called it a day. this cycling stuff takes forever. when will it end. lol :fish:


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## Trout (Mar 16, 2011)

If you use all 4 test tubes, you'll save yourself a bit of time. And then just rinse them all out at the end. Yeah, cuz there are 4 tests and you can take care of them all at the same time with the 4 tubes, unless you test for pH and it turns out you need to do the High-range test. 

I don't know why you don't have the bacteria that should be converting the ammonia. You may not have ENOUGH bacteria....  If you've got the bacteria that are converting the Nitrites to Nitrate, you should have the Ammonia converters too... It is very odd.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

my PH is ALWAYS....6.0 - 6.4.... no matter what :fish:


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

ammonia was .7 yesterday, and i did a 20% water change. i tested today, and it was .7 again. i called the fish store because i broke the bottom of my thermometer in my tank and wanted to find out what metal the balls were comprised of ( i thought they were lead ), and to see if it would poison my fish. the topic of my ammonia came up, and she told me to do a 75% water change, and just leave it for like 4 days. so that's what i did. i matched the temp as best i could and all fishies seem fine. i noticed a white spot on one of the espies last night, but it looks like it's going away on it's own. it KINDA looked like ich, but i don't know (as long as it's going away). ahh, the joys of a brand new tank with brand new fish, by a brand new fish keeper. can't wait till this thing is cycled. bring it on!


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

WOW! i can't believe it! i just tested the water after the 75% water change, and my ammonia is .25! i can't remember the last time i saw a .25 ammonia reading! LOL. well duh. that's what happens when you do a 75% water change. now, to let it sit. come on bacteria! get it on in my tank already!


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

baileysup said:


> WOW! i can't believe it! i just tested the water after the 75% water change, and my ammonia is .25! i can't remember the last time i saw a .25 ammonia reading! LOL. well duh. that's what happens when you do a 75% water change. now, to let it sit. come on bacteria! get it on in my tank already!


Lol glad to see you're excited and following the proper procedures to a new tank. A lot of new fish keepers don't have the patience, i'm sure your fish will be very happy once their new home is cycled and will be well worth the wait.

But, yes, your showing .25 due to the 75% water change, I would say probably one more week should do it. How did you break your thermometer if you don't mind me asking?


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

when i went to squish the suction cup off of the tank wall, the bottom of the thermometer hit the tank wall when pressure was equalized. did i spell suction right? only the lead balls were released, and not the red fluid inside (that's in a separate glass tube), whatever the red fluid is (i thought mercury was silver). so be carefull when removing your thermometers. it still works, but i don't keep it in the tank due to the sharp glass edges. i have a good heater which is uber reliable, so i should be good until i get a new one.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

well, day 5 after the 75% water change, and i still have not had to touch the tank. my ammonia has been stable at .5 for 3 days straight now, and my nitrates have remained at about 25-30. this is good news, and i'm not doing another water change untill either the ammonia hits 0, or the nitrates hit 40. 

also my LFS told me that ammonia doesn't form in a PH of less than 6.8, and what i was reading as ammonia, was actually ammonium. my PH is always 6.0 - 6.2. if my PH were to rise, it would quickly change to ammonia though.

THE CYCLE IS SOON COMPLETE!!


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Your LFS is correct. Which ammonium is not as harmful to fish as ammonia.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

broke down today and bought some microbe-lift special blend, and microbe-lift nite-out II. i put the special blend in today, and will dose with the nite-out tomorrow. my LFS said this should definitely cycle my tank. we'll see


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