# Culling



## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi, this thread is about culling (aka, killing and disposal of fish that don't have desired qualities such as sickness, mutations, and/or not a good color or shape) if any of these things disturb or offend you, I sincerely apologize, and you should probably not read this thread.

With the disclaimer out of the way:
What are some methods of culling?
I have heard of a few, such as:
Flushing (fast, but they stay alive until they die in a soup of...well...you know)

Throwing against the wall/tile ground HARD (sounds a little messy, and I'd be afraid that they wouldn't die the first try)

Feeding them to a larger, predatory fish (I fed them to a Betta once until he met his match against a guppy that I named 'Lord Woo Fak Fak :chair:' . He killed the Betta. And any female/male I put him in with.)


SO, anyone have any thoughts, or other techniques? Personal experiences maybe?


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Honestly, if I was going to do it, there would only be a few ways I would.

1st, would be making them feeder fish.
2nd, would be euthanasia. 
3rd, if it is an option, is to give them to pet store to use as feeders/for sale.

I know some people have put them in the freezer. I'm not sure I like that idea, as being frozen sounds painful. I wouldn't throw the fish, because its likely that you wont kill them, a knife would work better if you need to be so crude about it. Flushing the fish is a bad idea and can be illegal in many areas. That allows diseases that your pets might have had to get into the water supply.

Honestly, if it were me, I would set up a second aquarium with the "culled" fish in it. When it gets full, put them all in a bucket and take them to the pet store. You might even get store credit for them. The pet store can decide what they want to do with the inferior fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The whacking, freezing, clove oil are all things I've read as far as euthanasia, but never for culling. I can see wanting to kill a dying fish quickly so it won't suffer, but I can't imagine squishing 200 convict fry because you have too many. Flushing is out, chlorine is a slow, painful death and even flushing dead fish is discourage because of disease and clogging concerns. If a dead fish gets stuck in your drain, your house is not going to smell nice. 

You should never, ever put a tropical fish in a wild body of water. That is illegal, cruel to the fish, and dangerous to the ecosystem.

Most people who cull either have fish-eating fish or take fry to the LFS or a friend in fishclub or just post "Free fish" on craigslist. Many end up as feeders, but if you don't ask, you don't have believe it. I think this is probably the best solution, with the exception of fish that are sick or are believed to be carrying a dread disease.

Sick fish should be killed humanely (clove oil seems like a reasonable way), wrapped in plastic, and frozen until trash day and put out in the trash. Most landfills have liners now that keep the nasties in. Alternatively, you could bury or compost them, but not anywhere water is running through into a stream or lake. I usually don't euthanize, I keep trying meds to see if I can find a remedy in case my other fish get sick. 

There are people who will take in a 'special needs' fish and keep it alive and not breed it. Maybe you can find one through a shelter or craigslist ad. But anyone who wants 200 convict fry is likely feeding something.

If you cull early, you don't need a very large fish that eats fish. A dwarf pike cichlid in a 20 gallon tank will do nicely. It is the people who cull 4" long koi that need an arowana.


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## Ponera (Oct 31, 2011)

put 100 guppies/bettas into ziploc bag. Seal.

Step with shoe.

BONUS: the puree makes awesome 'grown up fish' food!


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Funny you should ask! I do all sorts of fish related stuff for our schools AP Biology teacher, and yesterday she brought in a bag of 30 or so comets for a lab. She had me put them in a 1 gallon jar (meh), but I threw in an air stone to help them. Today, only one had died, and two were near dead. Whatever, I got rid of the did one and took a gallon of water from the five gallon tank in the corner. As I was siphoning out water from the jar, one of the half dead fish got sucked in head first. It's dorsal stopped the body from being sucked in, but the siphon tore the head clean off. The only thing attaching the two were eight inches of intestines. Gross. But hey, it's still cleaner then a dissection, and it was instant death. Not the worst way to die, right?
:-(


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

I have looked into euthanasia on fish quite a bit. Most of the methods used or noted above are cruel. According to "Manual of Fish Health" ISBN 1-55297-824-9 for fish that are relatively small, completely and quickly crushing the head of the fish is instant painless death provided the fish is made comfortable first by wrapping inside a wet paper towel.

I use this as described for dying fish. For fish still very much alive that for whatever reason need to be euthanized, I will knock the fish out with clove oil before doing the above. I use a rubber mallet for the dirty work.

This is essentially pithing for a fish too small to pith.

Neale Monks recommends putting into and leaving in clove oil for 20 minutes after gill movement stops. 

I don't see much difference for small fish but the clove oil method takes a long time. For larger fish I would knock out with clove oil and decapitate so the fish feels no pain.

Freezing, according to that book, is now considered cruel, as is decapitation without anesthetizing first, as is flushing.

In terms of culling, I don;t have tank space to allow culls to live a natural life, and I certainly wouldn't want culled livebearers to be breeding in there. Culling is the main reason I have a few cichlids.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

We don't breed fish, but if we did, our Albino Checkered Garter Snake would be more than happy to take care of culls for us. 
He lives on a diet of feeder comets/shiners and any fish that die in our normal tanks.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Clove oil works mcuh faster then 20 minuets. Its just that it is a sedative. The point is to leave them in it till you are sure thy are dead. It will knock a fish out pretty good in about 5 minuets. 

When I am culling. Normally endler fry. I just net them wack against the top of the tank then dump the stunned fry in with the rainbowfish.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

How do you whack a fry against the tank? They are so small I can't imagine how you do it.

The 20 minutes was not with the understanding that it takes that long, it's to ensure they are really dead. As you said, clove oil is normally used as a sedative. I have had gill movement stop completely for several minutes as I worked on the fish out of water, then recover completely within 30 seconds of putting them back into tank water. 

I am not convinced that it's all that easy to accurately dose clove oil in a home environment. That, coupled with the fact that the stuff truly stinks is why I don't use it alone for euthanasia.


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## mpfsr (Jun 22, 2011)

What I did was just make a "short bus" tank it has a stunted discus and a curved spine pleco. I can't see killing fish just cause they don't meet "our" standards. Just don't breed any of the bad fish and try to give them a happy life while there in your care. Have have used clove oil on fish that were on there way out. And is the only way I will do that. Works quick and the fish never seemed to suffer.
I just wonder if some of you would do the same if it was a puppy!!!!
As there is not much difference to me there both pets we took the responsibility to care for. IMO


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have an aunt who euthanized her own sick dog, crying all the time. paying a vet to do it doesn't make it any better.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I would first make it a feeder fish. Second I would use clove oil and alcohol. third would be to whack them with a stick or something. That would be a quick and easy death.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

The pithing method is not inhumane because it's finished in a few milliseconds. Not long enough for the pain signals to get to the brain. But it is not for the squeamish, that is for sure. It does make a bit of a mess. Killing fish is one of the necessary evils of fishkeeping. Nobody likes to do it.

I had to euthanize an entire tank once due to a camallanus worm infestation I just could not get rid of. This included some Siamese algae eaters I had kept for over 6 years. It was a very difficult and emotional day.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

For fry you just net them walk to the big tank, then whack the net itself against the tank. Then open the tank and drop all the fry in. This method definitely doesn't kill them but most are stunned enough to get eaten up really fast. I keep densely planted tanks so fry control is a must with livebearers. Especially endler that don't eat their own fry. If they are not stunned they tend to hide too well in the big tank. 

Culling is no different then proper care of fishes. When I first got my endlers I went from 6 fish to over 100 in a little over a month. I've since learned to control their numbers better. I've also had them for like 2 years. I would of gotten rid of them all a year ago but I can never catch all of them. So they keep inbreeding and I occasionally cull when there are too many. Eventually I'll get them all or genetics will lol. 

No breeder wants to raise a bunch of culls. Sure usually there is nothing wrong with the majority of culls. But if your goal is to improve the line its more efficient to put your effort into raising a handful of the best fish compared to the entire spawn. Its no different then what would happen in nature. Most fry don't survive. why does it matter if the selection is natural or artificial? 

Your not suppose to use clove oil and alcohol. The alcohol is totally pointless and compromises the humane euthanasia. Its just not humane since the alcohol is going to cause a great deal of pain if the fish is still conscious. More so the only real reason to add alcohol is to make the clove oil mix with the water better. Simple shaking can do the same. Even if you don't mix clove oil at all it will still work, it just takes longer.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

mpfsr said:


> What I did was just make a "short bus" tank it has a stunted discus and a curved spine pleco. I can't see killing fish just cause they don't meet "our" standards. Just don't breed any of the bad fish and try to give them a happy life while there in your care. Have have used clove oil on fish that were on there way out. And is the only way I will do that. Works quick and the fish never seemed to suffer.
> I just wonder if some of you would do the same if it was a puppy!!!!
> As there is not much difference to me there both pets we took the responsibility to care for. IMO IMO


Do you KNOW how guppies breed?

A good dog breeder would not kill the puppy. It would have it fixed. 

I just typed a long explanation of WHY I cull, but then I realized, I posted a disclaimer at the beginning saying what this thread is about. This is a question for serious breeders. I am asking for the most humane way to cull. There will be culling of fish either way, at least I'm trying to find out a way to do it that's somewhat painless.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> For fry you just net them walk to the big tank, then whack the net itself against the tank. Then open the tank and drop all the fry in. This method definitely doesn't kill them but most are stunned enough to get eaten up really fast. I keep densely planted tanks so fry control is a must with livebearers. Especially endler that don't eat their own fry. If they are not stunned they tend to hide too well in the big tank.
> 
> Culling is no different then proper care of fishes. When I first got my endlers I went from 6 fish to over 100 in a little over a month. I've since learned to control their numbers better. I've also had them for like 2 years. I would of gotten rid of them all a year ago but I can never catch all of them. So they keep inbreeding and I occasionally cull when there are too many. Eventually I'll get them all or genetics will lol.
> 
> No breeder wants to raise a bunch of culls. Sure usually there is nothing wrong with the majority of culls. But if your goal is to improve the line its more efficient to put your effort into raising a handful of the best fish compared to the entire spawn. Its no different then what would happen in nature. Most fry don't survive. why does it matter if the selection is natural or artificial?


I seriously looked for a 'like' button!

I would do it this way, but by the time I'm able to see any deformities in them, their big enough not to get eaten by the parents. THOUGH, I DO have a betta that may eat them...


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Well, being eaten is not very painless.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Fishpunk said:


> Well, being eaten is not very painless.


Lol. Very true. Though, for some reason it seems to be a bit more acceptable in society. :/


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## mpfsr (Jun 22, 2011)

Sorafish said:


> Do you KNOW how guppies breed?
> 
> A good dog breeder would not kill the puppy. It would have it fixed.
> 
> I just typed a long explanation of WHY I cull, but then I realized, I posted a disclaimer at the beginning saying what this thread is about. This is a question for serious breeders. I am asking for the most humane way to cull. There will be culling of fish either way, at least I'm trying to find out a way to do it that's somewhat painless.


Yes I very much know how guppies breed..I read before I go buy something..Not sure what you mean about "serious breeders"Cause if you give a fish the right conditions they do everything. So your still a fish keeper like the rest of us..Enlightenmeant is a wonderful thing.....

It wasn't to long ago they used to cull people too..Don't make it right. I know it happens and I know it will always happen..I just felt the need to make a point for everyone to think about. As I hear lots of very bad ways to get "rid" of unwanted fish..


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## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

Wow. You know I've never heard of slapping the fish till its dead. Ha. Ushally I do nothing because most of the weird ones die anyway before they are more than a month old and feed them to my bettas(they love them)

I dont like killing a fish while its alive...-_- Im a softy.

I did feed one live before but...it wasnt gonna survive so...haha.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I am not totally opposed to culling people. Esp, @ the embryo or fetal stage. If you know a child would have to have round the clock care for its entire poor quality life, its better to let it go and try again. We have gotten entirely too good at preventing miscarriage and infant mortality. 

Obviously, birth control is better than culling, but birth control in fish still needs work.

I think feeding to something is more acceptable because it is more "natural" and "useful" than just destroying fish.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

emc7 said:


> I am not totally opposed to culling people. Esp, @ the embryo or fetal stage. If you know a child would have to have round the clock care for its entire poor quality life, its better to let it go and try again. We have gotten entirely too good at preventing miscarriage and infant mortality.
> 
> Obviously, birth control is better than culling, but birth control in fish still needs work.
> 
> I think feeding to something is more acceptable because it is more "natural" and "useful" than just destroying fish.


Agreed. Mother Nature knows best usually.

Birth control in guppies would be a miracle!! Lol


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