# Aquarium Kits



## siriusalphacma (Dec 1, 2008)

Hey yall,

So I'm thinking of starting an aquarium again.

I'm thinking of getting a kit, "aquarium kit." Packages in a kit seem to give you better value than separate items.

Does anyone have any tip? Which brand(s) are the best but also of good value for your buck? Where should I get it? (I was thinking of either Petco, petsmart, or Petclub)

I'm thinking of getting something in the range of about 20 gal, $100-150. Eventually, I want to have some zebra danios.

thanks a lot!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Kits can be a good value or they can contain worthless junk that you will need to replace. Usually kits with tank, lid and lights are a good value if you intend to use stock lighting (if you want live plants, you could want stronger lighting). Lids or hoods alone tend to be overpriced. Filters with kits tend to be undersized. If you just want a few fish, they could be ok. But most of us who start with kits either add a second filter or buy a bigger filter and move the "hand me down" to a smaller tank. Try to get exact part lists and post them here for comments. Don't count chemicals and decor in a package as "value". Either you won't use them or you will replace them with others in a few weeks. Price the hardware and compare to buying the tank locally and ordering independant pieces (filter, heater, lid) from an online site like http://www.drsfostersmith.com/. If you buy locally, it is nice to start with a locally-owned local fish store (LFS) and worth supporting someone you like even if the prices are higher than the chains. If you are going to buy from a chainstore, you can often get your local PetSmart to match their PetSmart.com prices if you print them out and bring them in. In general, you want a bigger filter than is recommend on the filter's box (buy a 30 gallon filter for a 20 gallon tank), 5 watts/gallon heater (submersibles are nicer), and a lid that fits the tank. Everything else if flexible, but bigger tanks are more stable and give you many more choices of fish. So go as big as your budget and floorplan allow, with wider being better than taller for the same gallonage, and taller being better than shorter for the same footprint.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

em said it all.

tr


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## siriusalphacma (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks.

My main considerations will mainly be (besides the tank itself) the hood/lighting, filter, and heater. (Yeah, I didn't expect their "trial sizes" to last half the tank!).

There seems to be three main brands that I've seen, marineland, eclipse, tetra. Would you recommend against any one of these particular brands? (Like, their filters break easily, often?).

Also, the Marineland biowheels look kinda fun, but are they really useful as a filter?


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I would suggest going with the marineland... I have several of their filters and they work well in my opinion (and I have used A LOT of filters)


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

siriusalphacma said:


> My main considerations will mainly be (besides the tank itself) the hood/lighting, filter, and heater. (Yeah, I didn't expect their "trial sizes" to last half the tank!).


ss:

You are kinda off base here in that IMHO but based on limited experience the equipment is good but just is underpowered.


Jumping ahead I cannot recommend eclipse although my two 5G hex's work just fine for me but in very specialized situation.


Jumping back the impeller design is magnetic and is first class. 

The design of the mechanical filtration pad and the biowheel is also first class.

The maintenance of the filter is a breeze.

BUT

Typical stocking levels cannot be achieved as the filtration equipment will not support these levels.




siriusalphacma said:


> There seems to be three main brands that I've seen, marineland, eclipse, tetra. Would you recommend against any one of these particular brands? (Like, their filters break easily, often?).





siriusalphacma said:


> Also, the Marineland biowheels look kinda fun, but are they really useful as a filter?


Yes they are.

TR

ss: Several Items


I guess that I am lost as I believed that you wanted to purchase an integrated system but the only integrated system which *MarineLand *manufactures is the Eclipse but they also manufacture Penguin and Emperor HOB's.

If you could tell us the price range and size of tank which you are after we might could help your configure you aquarium.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Eclipse are pretty and pricey. Parts are available now but tend to take a week to get, so when something breaks you could end up buying two replacements, one for now, and one that makes it pretty again. The all-in-one look is very attractive, though I suggest you don't overstock such a tank. Biowheels do work, not as quickly as they are sometimes claimed to, but well and long-term. Because of the falling water, they tend to be noisy. Penguin/top-fin/regal filters (black, hang-on-back, cartridge, waterfall) all work well, tend to come too small in kits and tend to start making impeller noise after a few years but keep working for decades.

If the tank is going in a bedroom, you may want to spend more for a quieter filter. 

There is new stuff on the market. Aqueon (all-glass) is making (or rebranding) filters now.

If you find a tank/lid/light combo that you like, you can start the tank with the filter it comes with and change the filter later (except for the eclipse).


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## siriusalphacma (Dec 1, 2008)

So taking your suggestions, I had a little scouting today.... it seems like it's a great time to buy things in general. The economy sucks (except for my non-stock savings), and the discounts are as deep as the tanks! lol. anyways...

So at Petco, Aquatic Garden has hefty sale (Petco's own brand, is this (their filter, especially) reliable?)
$50 for 10g kit
$70 for 20g kit tall (heater + hood + fun sized samples for all kits)
$90 for 29g kit

and at Petsmart, topfin (their brand)
$80 for 20g kit tall
$100 for 29g
$160 for 55g!!

And then I googled topfin, and the first result was a rant against petsmart. Unfortunately, I also have a gift card with them. Do you agree with the I'm-feeling-lucky result's hatred of topfin?

After browsing around, I figured that even if the filter is not reliable, the hood + heater would probably make it more economical to get as a package. Also, I'm a little tempted by that 55g tank! lol... I'm getting greedy.

Lastly, what are your experience with under-gravel filtering? (where you get a mash under the medium to intake water). It doesn't seem natural, but it would seem to be cleaner for the ground.

Again, thanks for your input


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

ss:

Where I was coming from is

a 20G long is about $1.25/gallon at PetSmart or PetCo = $25

a *3WPG PC light* for this tank = $77

a *Penguin 330GPH filter* = $42

You still need a double hinged glass lid with with I am not familiar.


ss:

You posted while I was preparing my post so moving up to a 55G tank the peripherals do not go up very much but the tank cost does.




siriusalphacma said:


> Lastly, what are your experience with under-gravel filtering? (where you get a mash under the medium to intake water). It doesn't seem natural, but it would seem to be cleaner for the ground.


ss:

Several very experienced folks on the Forum use UGF's .

If I were you I would not employ one as I now believe that I am only getting enough experience to deal with one but I would still employ typical filtration until I really felt comfortable with an UGF.


ss:

One last item here.

Used equipment, or more probably complete aquariums, can sometimes be a real bargain, like $0.10 on the $1.00 on craigslist.

If was starting over again this is the way that I would go.

If you live in or near a metropolitan area you might consider this (I do not but have made recent sojourns to Austin).

TR


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I do have a top-fin filter that was part of a 55 kit, it is one of 3 filters on one of my 30 gallon tanks. It was hard to get going, but it seems to work fine, if a little loud. 

If you have the space, go for the 55. There are just so much more you can do with a 4 ft long tank. Even if you want little fish, like neons and danios, you can have a real school in a 55 and see more natual behavior. 

I've seen very good deals also, free shipping or gift card from online sites like thatpetplace.com. Also many used tanks with nice stands on craigslist, many from closed businesses.

I once tried filter-floss under the gravel over an undergravel filter, but it didn't stay put. I don't know what you mean by mash. UGs filters in general are very effective at biological filtration and are cheap compared to other filters, and are also somewhat easy to hide. There are drawbacks, though, that make them more work than hang-on-back, canister filters, or sponge filters. You need to "gravel-wash" to get waste out of the substrate. And every few months (less for smaller tanks), take up the gravel and clean under the plate. Live plants get roots tangled in them. Fish can relocate the gravel leaving you with an ugly plate and a less effective filter. If you neglect your gravelwashing/water changing, the nitrates will get high and cause issues like algae blooms. Like other "internal" filters, UGFs take space away from the fish. There is a variation called a reverse UGF in which power heads blow water into the gravel rather suck from under it. Its kind of unnatural, but does mean cleaner gravel and a "prefilter" which is easier to clean. UGFs are kind of controversial with one group saying they are obsolete old tech and the other saying they still work just as well as they did decades ago or better because of new submersible powerheads. Personally, I wouldn't put an UG filter in less than a 30" tank and I wouldn't use one with nitrate-sensitive fish, such as discus. Also I would suggest owning a real canister filter (at least a HOT magnum) for ease of gravel-washing. In general, don't consider a UGF in a kit an added value, they are just getting rid of what they can't sell. If you get one with a tank, whether you want use it will depend on what fish you want to keep.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

also, dont forget to get a test kit. it was the most important thing i ever bought.


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## hsd (Sep 8, 2008)

Kits from store are ok. But I would check your local craigslist for any deals.
In the end you're gonna get more things, like food, nets, buckets, water test kits, gravel, fake plants, rocks, wood, and other things. It doesn't seem like much but the costs add up. You'll probably get a lot more bang for your buck by buying used.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I would recommend staying away from kits. You get stuck with one manufatcturer's version of too many products.

I would suggest:
-Aqueon or Perfecto tank
-Marineland Penguin or Emperor filter (depends on size)
-Tetra pump
-Cheapest air line tubing you can find
-Hagen Elite airstones
-Live plants
-AmmoChips (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals brand)


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