# i need some help, minor help



## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

ok, how many times do you recomend water changes. like 25% changes. had my tank about 2 weeks. i heard 25% water change 3 times a week. is that right? i usally well i have dont like 2 a week. but what is recomended by you guys? please help thanks you


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

is your tank cycled? if not then yes, three times a week or as needed.
if its cycled 25% change a week is fine


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## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

Ok do not get the Loaches, or the Cories, or for that matter anymore fish, they will out grow your tank very fast Remember 1in per gal. of water, and to think of the size the fish will grow to not the size they are now. It looks like you are at you max load now, Tiger Barbs get to about 3in each, Black Kuhli 3in, so with just those four you are over loaded, with 12in in 10in of space. You should also read this article on Fiddler Crabs, http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm. I am no expert by any means but have gone through many problems from over stocking in the beggining. Lost many good fish


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

the inch per gallon rule doesnt apply anymore these days.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

manda said:


> the inch per gallon rule doesnt apply anymore these days.




wait, like littery? because, my tank looks pretty damn empty. and i have ceen pics of what looks liek to me over loaded fishtanks, but i just want a few more. . . . . . . . 


cycled? as in like a filter? yes i have a filter, heater, AQUA culture pumps with bubble stones ( x2 )


way off topic, i have a gold fish in a 2 gallion tank. is he ok to go in my 10 gallon with my tiger barbs? would they get along? ---> :fish: gold fish. only mine it so much more amazing haha


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2007)

The inch per gallon rule is close to worthless these days.

The fiddler crabs are a big no no as they are brackish and do not go well at all in freshwater community tanks.

25% weekly or every other week is fine IMO, but thats after your tank has been through the nitrogen cycle. If you've only had your tank for two weeks, then its not cycled yet. I suggest reading about the nitrogen cycle; there is a great sticky in one of the freshwater sections thats well worth a read.


Edit: Cycling is not the same as filtration. The nitrogen cycle is the development of the necessary bacteria needed to consume and rid your tank of harmful ammonia and nitrites.
Also, no kind of goldfish is suitible in a 2 or 10 gallon tank long term. What type of goldfish do you have? If they are a fancy variety such as fantail, then they will need a 20-30 gallon minimum for life. Common or commet goldfish (usually what feeder goldfish are) can get up to 12 inches in length and are very messy and active, so they will need a very large tank (100 gallons +) or a pond for life.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

oh buddy! wait till you see what you have gotten into 
look at the stickies for the nitrogen cycle, and good luck


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

i belive a fancy goldfish. it was like $4.00 my GF got it for me.

"The fiddler crabs are a big no no as they are brackish and do not go well at all in freshwater community tanks."

why dont they go well? i have seen no problems. it says they should have land but the peoplt at petco caid if there isnt any they will sit up in the filter. nd they seem to be doing ok. define "brackish" thanks





and what am i getting myself into? you make it seem like i am playing with massive bombs or someting. massive bombs and 1 - 5$ fish are diffrent. i am not going to spend alot on fish yet seeing i am new at this.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

i am just saying you have tons to learn and should get to work on it 

brackish= half salt, half fresh (i think)
and NEVER listen to anyone at a petstore. they are wrong.

and fancy goldfish belong in ponds.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2007)

Fancy goldfish do not belong in ponds. They are usually kept in home aquariums and seldomly kept in ponds, as some would probably not fair as well. (bubble eye goldfish come to mind)

To easily define brackish, it is a diluted saltwater. So it has a much lower salinty. Basically, its in between saltwater and freshwater. 

If you read more about the nitrogen cycle, you will understand more about "what you are getting yourself into."

This is my advice, take it or not, but keep in mind I am trying to keep things as easy and stress free for you as possible.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

ever been to petco? i will listen to them they are strict, they wont sell you fish unless you tell them what you havein your tank and what size and ECT. but what do i do about my crabs? i mean i have 2 in there. . . . and i dont have anywere top to put them. they seem happy. . . . . .


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## NewfieFishGuy (Jul 27, 2006)

Hey Pevine, the comments are coming from people's experiences. There are lots of people that come through here just starting out. Some listen to advice and do well, some don't want to listen or do a bit of research and they get frustrated and leave.

I think the problem you're going to see is that you've got a relatively small tank with a fairly high bio-load. You really need to read up on the nitrogen cycle. Right now, the water in your tank is likely poisoning your fish. It can often kill them, which would obviously be frustrating to anyone starting out.

What happened to your dragon fish. Was he a new addition to your 10 gallon?


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

didnt have a cover at the time, cat got into my room. the next day i got a cover. damnit i miss that guy


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## NewfieFishGuy (Jul 27, 2006)

A cover's certainly a good thing. Really cut's down on the evaporation and keeps the pets out. 

For piece of mind and the health of your fish, you're really going to want to get yourself a test kit so you can monitor the water. It really kind of hits you in your face when you see the nitrogen cycle in action. I too didn't do it right at first, but with my handy test kit, I was able to keep on top of the cycle. 

The kits don't have to be expensive. I just stocked up at 4$ each.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

i test my water every other day. one for AMMONIA and another test kit wich has Nitrate,nitrite.hardness,alkalinity, and PH

i did it today. . .. it was all fine HARDNESS at "soft" is that were it should be?


"A cover's certainly a good thing. Really cut's down on the evaporation and keeps the pets out. "

i wish i had one at first. i miss my dragon fish. but its not like my PH was bad or someting. just cat must of been bored and caught him. when i get a larger tank i will get another tho. . . . . . . . . i still got my tiger barbs, i like them as well


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

sorry, as you can tell gold fish arent my thing. i thought thats what i have heard.

and petco just sold me some fish with ich... and wouldnt take them back and gave me alot of crap. and they are not strict at all. each petco varies i guess.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

o i do not like petco at all, i am not standing up for them. i peffer petsmart. but still i known fish for 2 weeks and know more then thay do. i am not saying i know alot, i am saying they know nothing at petstores. but with all your advice i can improve my knowlege and know what is good and what is not. and yes alot of the time at pet co, they have sings that say " fish beging observed " 99% of the time is because of ich.


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

You stated that you did a test today and all was "fine". What do you mean by fine? What were the numbers?


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

Nitrate ---> 20
Nitrite ---> 0
hardness ---> 75
Alkalinity ---> 80
PH ---> 6.9 - 7.1 ish


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

ammonia???


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

damn sorry. 


0.25 < well a little less i would say 0.15 because the color wasnt light green nor was it yellowish >


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## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

Ok so it looks as though you are about to run into the same problem I have been in for the last 2 months. I got the fish craze and desided to get a couple fish friends to go with my Bettas, how I wish I knew what I do now. Went to Petco, asked the guy to show me fish that could go in a 10gal. with my Betta. He sold me 3 Tiger Barbs, 2 Mollies, AND an Albino Rainbow Shark...um thats 24 inches of fish in a *10gal. and by the way only 2 of those fish should be in a community tank, let alone in a 10gal. community tank. So I bought another tank, 2 new tanks at this point. The Tiger Barbs need a larger tank, because they need to be in a school (4+ fish) or they will end up nipping at other fish, they went back. Albino Rainbow Sharks are very territorial, he went back. My tank was heavily overloaded and after about 2-3 weeks my Mollies were dead. I would stick with what you've got for now, and start looking for good deals online, so that you can have all the fish you want. I just found this site and it has some great deals on it, www.Craigslist.org. You might also want to get your Goldy a 20gal.+ of his/her own, because very soon it will be 3 times the size of it's bowl...if it lives that long. Look at the link of my first reply about the crabs, its very informative. Just trying to save you the headache of fun I've been sorting out. Good luck, hope some of this helps.*


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

my goldfish seems happy and when it starts to get bigger ill get it a bigger tank


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

how does a fish "seem happy"


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

eats well, swims ok, looks healthy, not oversized in her tank


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

so do the 10+ gold fish in the small 10 gallon at the petstore though.
gold fish make tons of ammonia, and your not even cyled. 
please for your fishes sake keep checking your ammonia level


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

i do! i check all my levels.:lol:


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

great!


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

oh yea the past 2 weeks my water has been cloudy, all levels were fine. but the past 2 days it cleared up and now its liek the first day i set it up. pretty much crystal clear. is the cycle done?


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

when ammonia is zero
nitrite is zero
and nitrates 10-20 
then its cycled. it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks. however i swear i had a tank that cycled in a little less than 3 weeks!


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

manda said:


> when ammonia is zero
> nitrite is zero
> and nitrates 10-20
> then its cycled. it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks. however i swear i had a tank that cycled in a little less than 3 weeks!


ammonia ---> yet again not yellow, not quite green. yellow - 0 light green - 0.25. i would give it about 0.10 because its close to yellow but still trace of green
nitrite ---> 0 ( safe )
nitrate ---> 0 ( safe ) 0 - 40 is safe
hardness ---> 75 ( soft )
alakalnity ---> 120 ideal (120 - 180 ideal )
PH ---> 6.8 netural ( 6.8 - 7.2 netural )


GOLD FISH TANK ---> 0 ammonia

so my cycle isnt done quite yet? because of the ammonia?


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

you are definally no where near cycled then.


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/general-freshwater/7125-nitrogen-cycle-basics.html

please read this. it will tell you everything.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

i have read that. . . . bvut how am i not near cycled? its barley not zero on ammonia


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## manda (Feb 9, 2006)

you have NO nitrates. you NEED atleast 10
and you shouldnt even have a trace of ammonia


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

manda said:


> you have NO nitrates. you NEED atleast 10
> and you shouldnt even have a trace of ammonia




"nitrates" my test kit says 0 - 40 is ok


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## goldseverum109 (Mar 7, 2007)

i do a 30% water change like once a month.........maybe thats a really bad thing, or maybe its because i have a bigger tank, but i would think in order to get the water chemistry stabilized, you should not do nearly so many water changes, your water needs to develop good bacteria to filter itself, also, did you rinse the gravel thouroghly b4 u put it in, their could some trace substances in that, which will take a few weeks for your filter to cycle out,( by trace substances i mean things that are either not comonly tested for, or that only take an untracabely (spelling) small amount to affect your fish.)


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2007)

manda said:


> you have NO nitrates. you NEED atleast 10
> and you shouldnt even have a trace of ammonia


Manda, you're being slightly misleading.
Its not that you need nitrates, but rising nitrates and falling nitrites are a sign of the end point of the cycle.

PEVINE, If you actually read the postings on the nitrogen cycle, you should understand this. I suggest reading it again.

*Basic Overview*:

Ammonia builds up from fish waste >> bacteria develops to consume ammonia and give off nitrites.

Nitrites build up >> bacteria develops to consume nitrites and give off nitrates.

Ammonia and nitrites should be at zero and nitrates are left. Now you have completed the cycle. It should take around 4-6 weeks.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

question. all my foggy water has cleared and my tank now looks very nice. i was wondering ( well i have some stuff ( idont know what it is, clear, thin layer ) on the inside walls stuck to my glass ) should i get a alge eater? if so what kind?


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2007)

Are you reading our advice AT ALL?

No more fish until you have finished the cycle! Use an algae scrubber if the glass is getting dirty!


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

then the water will get foggy again :fun:


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

This post is going nowhere. If the topic starter doesn't want to listen then quit wasting all of your valuable time. You can only beat a dead horse so much and get any fun out of it...........................................


There are many other people out there who want to learn and are looking for help. The information has been given. Its up to the poster to heed it or ignore it.


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## Kyoberr (Dec 6, 2006)

I usually try to do like 1/3 change every two to three weeks.
The fish live, so it must be okay, but I think if I were to do it a bit more it would be fine if not better.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

yea i usally do one every week n a half. and my fish are good. :fish: got my tiger barbs in a diffrent 10 gallon tank, theres 6 of them now my gf gave me hers. and i have 2 angel fish  just a little up date. and the tiger barbs tank is going to be planted and i planted some in with my angel fish also


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2007)

A ten gallon is too small for angelfish.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Damon said:


> This post is going nowhere. If the topic starter doesn't want to listen then quit wasting all of your valuable time. You can only beat a dead horse so much and get any fun out of it...........................................
> 
> 
> There are many other people out there who want to learn and are looking for help. The information has been given. Its up to the poster to heed it or ignore it.


well said. haha I'm such a kiss ass  but Damon is right.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

Scuba Kid said:


> A ten gallon is too small for angelfish.



how big do they get? the guy at the pet store said 2 in a 10 gallon should be fine. they arent that large now and have plenty area to swim, but i dont know how adults look.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2007)

dont listen to pet stores.
a pair should have a 30 high as adults.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

well i am getting a new job in about a week. i plan on getting my first check getting someting for my GF. then then next week getting getting a 55 gallon fish tank. my angel fish are very smal ( well i would say quite small ) and seem like they are very comfortbal. do you belive maby by the time i can get a 55 gallon tank that would be ok? about 3 weeks?


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## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

Don't forget to include cycling the new tanks first. You'd hate losing the fish you wanted in there so badly. The fish can wait until it's done with the cycle. Better a cramped fish than a dead fish. Just in case your not fully getting what cycling does to a fish...I didn't until I saw it, and then was told this. When you have high ammonia such as I, it is literally burning the fish. There's more but that was the most disturbing to me. I bought Bio-Spiro that day and it cycled one tank almost completely over nite the other 2 I'm still working on (no fish in them anymore)


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

waitt. . . . so you can buy someting that cycles them in a couple days or over night? and what was it? "Bio-Spiro" how much is that?


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Bio-Spira. And petsmart, petco, walmart..don't carry it. Some lfs have it or can get it. If not you will have to order it online.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

because when i get my 55 gallon tank if i can get one soon, i want to put my angel fish in there but i would have to wait for it to cycle.


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## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

I think I paid $12-15 for a 30gal.treatment to treat my 20gal. Better to over use than under use. And then that worked so well I bought another one and put 3/4 in my 10gal. and a 1/4 in the 5gal. You just pour it right into your filter. I also think it worked better in the 20gal. because it was at the time the only tank with live plants.The over night thing is not a guarantee, but it will drastically shorten the cycle.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2007)

Just to clear it up, Bio Spira is not like other products that claim to shorten the cycle because it IS THE live bacteria. Bio Spira is not really promoting the growth of the beneficial bacteria, it IS the bacteria so that is why the cycle is shortened and more bacteria colonize more quickly.

If that made sense to anyone but myself. :razz:


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

so it puts the bactrea right into your tank instead haveing it to have to grow? does anyone have a site link? i just looked google but didnt find items just info about it, and not to mention the info wasnt that good . . . . .. at all.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2007)

http://marineland.com/products/mllabs/copy%20of%20ml_biospira.asp


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

thank you. it doesnt say how much fluid onces you would need to treat a 55 gallon. and i may be getting a 55 gallon in about 3 wees. if i did get it how would you know how much to put in your filter? and 1 more question. how do you put it in your filter? would you need a speical filter?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2007)

Just get two 30 gallon packets...
No, you don't need a special filter, you can just pour it in the filter you have and let it run. You can also pour it right in the tank if you want, thats what I've done.


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## PEVINE (Mar 7, 2007)

does this cloud the water for a few days or just put the bactriea in the water without the whole cycle? you just put it into the tank. . . . wait like 3 - 4 days then its all done?


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