# PH between 5.2 and 6.2



## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

Okay so my PH finally stopped dropping and now is somewhere between the marked colors on my kit for 5.2 and 6.2.... Gimpy shows no signs of being annoyed or bothered by this... but... Should I BE BOTHERED? that seems drastically low to me..... 

I don't have enough money to afford Bottled water... at least I don't think I do.... I'd have to check how much the gallon jugs from albertsons are. Anyways.... Some tips?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

how are the nitrates? High nitrate are the #1 reason of low pH. I doubt very much if you tap water is that low. Change water. Repeat.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

Will do. I ran out of my testing ear so I don't currently know my levels... I will be waiting for my supplies


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

if your fish are not complaining about it bothering them;why should you be bothered...are you going to live in the tank with him...lol
if you understand the environment that your fish need to be happy;and you create that environment the best that you can;then nothing should bother you..


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm just paranoid is all....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its a goldfish in a small tank with a shredded tail. High nitrate and a falling pH go hand in hand. If the tap water isn't low pH, then its time for a water change before its gets so far off a water change will shock the poor fish.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

it's not a small tank... It's a 30g which was recommended by the people on this site. His tail is BROKEN not shredded, it's his pectoral that is shredded..... Water change was done a little over 25% and already PH is up to 6.2


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I wasn't being critical, just pointing out to Loh, that you have reason to be concerned. A 29 is small enough that pH can get away from you if you don't keep up the water changes and acid water can be erode fins.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

Oh... lol I thought you basically said "YOU ARE A HORRIBLE KEEPER" which I kinda feel I am, but I am doing everything I know I can..... BTW he was bought in that condition


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have those "i am a horrible keeper" feelings myself sometimes. I know I should be spending less time on the boards and more in the fish room. Loh is right in that you worrying doesn't do a thing for the fish. Do the best you can and let it be.

From exp. I have learned, that when you have soft water, pH can be a quick indicator that you are overdue for a water change. As nitrates go up, pH goes down. It might be better to test for nitrate, but pH is quicker (esp. with a pH pen). Down around 4 you can see the fins start to suffer (don't ask how I know this). And the wider the gap better the tap and tank, the more risky larger water changes are and the more that tank needs one. So, say your tap water is 7, and if you leave it in a bucket for a week it goes to say 6.5, you really do need to change water at 5.5 or soon your tank will be down to 4. 
Of course, if you keep to a schedule, you shouldn't get overdue. But fish grow and gradually need more water changed than they did before. 

Nitrates aren't the only thing that can lower pH, CO2 can also. But Goldfish are rightly considered "high bio-load" . They make a lot of waste that ends up as nitrate, so it seemed like a reasonable guess that "organic acids" (aka nitrate) were lowering your pH.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

By they way, I don't think bottled water would help any. Only mineral water is hard and alkaline. Most bottle waters are filtered until they are soft (low dissolved solids). People who buy RO or DI water are trying to lower their pH.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

So mineral water will raise PH?


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

OK!!!! I'M PISSED NOW!!!! PH is down AGAIN down to where I feel is TO DAMN LOW.... I'm gonna do something drastic and I can only hope it works... I'm doing a 75% water change....I did a water change yesterday and now it's down to 5.2!!! THAT IS NOT OKAY!!!

I really don't want to wait for you guys to say no... I've done it before and my guy has been okay.... I'm gonna pull him over to a 2.5 nursing tank with the airstone on fullblast and a filter in it meant for a 10G.... The PH WILL GO UP IF ITS THE LAST THING I DO!!!


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

UPDATE::

My Gimpy is in the 2.5 nurse tank, small I know, but it has a large airstone bar and a filter in there with him... The tank was exchanged with an 75% water change and the ONLY thing I've put in there is Stress Coat.... I will wait until tomorrow to see the progress before putting AmQuel+ in

Amquel+: 

Add 5ml to every 10gal..

Each standard dose will remove more than 1.2ppm of ammonia, 2ppm Nitrite and 13ppm Nitrate, as well as detoxifying all chlorine and chloramines added by public water suppliers.

THAT IS RIGHT OFF THE BOTTLE


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The thing is nitrate from fish waste can easily get to 200 ppm. So a conditioner isn't going to do it alone. I'm actually for large water changes when you suspect real issues with the water. I would tell you to add baking soda, but I never recommend any buffers without knowing the hardness of the tap water and the tank. pH alone won't kill you fish, but sudden changes can, so be careful moving the fish between containers. And be really careful with the water quality in the little tank. Change water every day or twice a day.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

One more thing, how old is that meter? Those things are only accurate for a few months. Verify the results with another test.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

it's only about 3-4 weeks old.. 

Currently reads::


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

So it came up with the water change. Good.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

It's ALMOST up to 6.2










Here is poor Gimpy in the nurse tank, which is also the bucket I fill my tank with... It's actually a cool set up... The filter us a Whisper10 that came with my 10g tank, I removed the lower part of the intake tube. Now.. With the tube wide open, it causes for concern with telescope breeds like my Moor and the Demekins I had... so I devised a makeshift 'keep away'... Underneath the intake is an old flake food container... now... the container floats... I grabbed a 'chip clip' off the fridge and attached it to the intake tube, slide it down to connect with the food container, and there ya have it.... The tube gets water without the food container getting sucked up, and keeps the fish from getting its eyeballs suctioned off....

Now... There is a piece of plastic that I have positioned below the spout of the filter, so that it doesn't cause a disruptive current in the small tank, Gimpy needs to be able to rest...

You can also see the airstone.

... I know he has enough air because I watch his mouth as he breaths and it's just like how he breaths in the 30gal... he hardly tries at all, which is a good sign..... but he still likes to play with the bubbles.... weird fish


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its look adequate, but I do think the fish would be better off in the big tank. Little tanks are so unstable. With him out, you could do a 100% change in the big tank and even play with buffer before you put him back, but you'd need to acclimate him when he goes back.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm keeping him out until the water is better, then I plan to replace some of the 2.5g water with the big tank water for a few hours tomorrow, to get him adjusted....

Basically, tomorrow I will remove 1g from the 2.5 and replace it with water from the big tank. I will do this at 6am when I get up for school. At 12 when I get home I will put him in the big tank


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

I *JUST* gave the tank a 50% and guess what?! 

PH = 6.6!!!! I will give it another tonight before I go to bed if things don't change.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I'd put money on your pH monitor being completely inaccurate.

You really don't need to check pH pretty much ever if you have fairly normal tap water.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

one of the reasons why i never do tests on my water parameters is that they are not always accurate unless you are using all of the precisely made products.even them fancy test kits with the cute little test tubes and the pretty colored titrating reagents aren't going to give you accurate results because the tests done before may have left residue that will affect the current results..did you rinse the tubes good?still not right.for cleaning the tubes you need deionized water.tap water will alter future tests.
one of my rules.."always remember that the more you mess with stuff the bigger mess you will make of it."
a 5 inch carp in a 30 gallon tank isn't going to produce enough waste to drasticly(sp) affect ph unless you haven't done a water change for a couple of months.
vincent...you gotta relax a little pal.when you saw that the PH was down,did you study the fish?was he suffering or stressed?any gasping for air;burned fins?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Vincent, 
Were it me I would not trust the test kit. I had a problem with nitrate a bit back so I brought my water to the local store, they tested and it was lower than what I had tested it at. I bought a new bottle of the nitrate tester and got yet a third reading (all 3 tests being API liquid test). 

I also had a problem with the reading for nitrite when I was cycling my 10 gallon. The numbers were jumping around funny. So I bought a different nitrite tester, which had readings that did not jump around. 

I have no idea if it is better or worse or if it makes any difference at all, but I will also soak my test tubes in a weak solution of bleach for about an hour. I then rinse thoroughly and dry the inside with q-tips. Then I set them out to finish drying. If I get any color on the Q-tips I will wash and then re-soak until the Q tip comes up clean. It is clear that there is residue from previous tests in the tube itself which can alter future tests. 

I rarely test at this time. I will only test if something looks wrong with my fish, if the water is suddenly cloudy, if there has been more than one fish death in a short time that is not within 1-2 weeks of acclimation, or that is not with one of the fish that were acclimated in that time, and when I am first introducing fish to my tank so I know if I need to drip acclimate (and that test is for Ph only). In that instance I will re-test as I acclimate until the Ph is within .2 of the tank. That sounds like a lot of testing, however it really comes down to testing only 1-2 times in several months unless I am acclimating fish. And for me it is mostly around cloudy water. I have a problem with that which I just cannot explain. The tests are all normal and the fish appear fine though, so I stopped worrying about it. It was that or drive myself nuts. 

My 10 gallon also went from having a Ph of 6.8 to having a Ph of 8.2. My fish all appear cool with this with the exception of ceasing to attempt procreation. That is fine with me! I believe I know what caused the change but I will not be fixing that until my cories are a little bigger and can go into my 100 gallon. Then I will pull the rocks I added and hopefully get my cool green algae back rather than this ugly brown junk that my cories simply love. 

All of this comes down to this:
You can worry yourself to death which takes away from the enjoyment you get from Gimpy (whom it is obvious you care for very much), or you can trust that if something appears "funny" all of a sudden but your fish appears fine, it is probably not nearly as bad as you think. Look into it, but don't freak out about it.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

My tank is improving heavilly with each water change... I was holding off on buuying another fish until the ph was back to 6.6 which it is..... But the new fish has a cloudy eye... not the entire eye, just the pupil... I think she may be blind, but I'm not sure, and I can't get a good pic either...


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Idk, I wouldn't buy another fish for that tank. When Gimpy is full-grown, you'll see why.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm not here in these appartments for long, by that time I will be out of here and I will buy a huger tank... I plan on a 75gLong


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Cloudy eye can be illness or injury. I would put gimpy back in the big tank and quarantine the new fish in the little one. Maybe try some cloudy-eye treatment. Cloudy eye is one of those illnesses that show up when water quality is poor. Even blind in one eye, a fish will do ok in an aquarium if it doesn't have to compete with other fish for food.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

Gimpy is in the big tank, and Gypsie is in the ten gallon being medicated with "General Cure" containing::

125mg Metronidazole
13mg Copper Sulfate

PER CAPSULE

I syphoned water from the big tank RIGHT into the 10g including the water she came in. She has the filter and pump working as they should, with the carbon removed from the filter [as General Cure instructed]


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

If it is blindness I would not worry too much. Of my 5 zebra danios I have 2 with only one eye. I discovered after I had purchased them that they were eyeless on the same side. They do fine 

I would not put them in an over crowded tank.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

these two are the only two fish I own.. 

Gypsie's eye has some minor blood in it, nothing to worry about, but enough to suggest injury... I will keep her in the nurse tank for a few more days before introducing her again to Gimpy...

She was in the tank for less then a minute when I realized her eye.... was long enough to know poor Gimpy is scared of her.. lol He's been alone to long.


The specialist with petco said that because I clean the tank so often with gravel vacing and water changes, that it would be alright for me to have another Moor... He said the new one wouldn't grow as fast, but that it wouldn't be hurt any.

Just for good measures, I'm bumping up to 2 water changes and 2 gravel vacs a week.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

ADDED INFO::

The guy I buy fish from doesn't have the best quality. Gyspie seems to be recovering some.... she has 4 scales with a light whiteness to the ends of them, like they just finished growing back, she is also missing a scale on her other side... Has white 'healing' bumps on her tail and then her eye.....

This guy either doesn't care where he buys from.... or I have the ****************tiest luck choosing fish...


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

It's time for you to find a new pet shop.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

My Petco fish were never too hardy, and often deformed. Not a way to go. Don't listen to their "specialists" either. The aquatic specialist at my Petco kept 2 common plecos and 5 common goldfish in a 29 gallon and saw no issues with that.  I think it's okay to keep another Moor in there as long as you keep up WCs and you have a bigger tank planned


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

I think I know why I'm having problems with the nitrites/nitrates.....

I recently installed my UGF [under gravel filter]... The ph meter was fine before that..... So it's prolly cause the tank is trying to re-adjust itself...... I may just end up removing the UGH and getting the tank back to normal...


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

IMO, UGFs aren't that great for much of anything. Get a good canister or high-quality HOB filter and you'll be fine.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

How recently did you add the UGF? they take awhile (weeks) to start working. And they can cause nitrates to rise if you skimp on the gravel washing (they suck uneaten food and poo down, so if you don't get it out, it keep decaying and making more nitrate). The cure for nitrates is water changes.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

i installed it last week... i will take it out and place it back in when i move then i can cycle the tank.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Undergravel filters really are not very useful. Goldfish produce a lot of waste (poop) and you need a filter that is strong in mechanical filtration to get some of out. UGFs just suck it down to the gravel bed.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2008)

I think you should settle down. If that black moor is half as stressed out as you are it ain't going to live to much longer. 

Go get a cheap 5 dollar PH kit and test your tap water. Then test the tank water. If it matches then forget about it. If it doesn't match do more water changes until it does match. When your tank PH is different from your tap water PH that tells you you are not doing enough water changes. 

Fish are very resilient to different PH levels but they don't like the PH bouncing all over the place. If you keep messing with it that black moor will never heal up and get back to normal.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

All I'm doing is changing the water, I removed my UGF and changed the water... I'm treating my water with Stress Coat and nothing else....

I know I seem like I'm going crazy, but all I'm doing is changing the water and waiting for the meter to read better levels on it's own


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2008)

How do you know what better levels even are? Good PH levels will be whatever your tap water is. It's that simple.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

My tap was 7ish... that's why I know my levels aren't good right now, and weren't good especially when it was down at 5.2

I removed the UGF and found a MASS of poop just sitting, and one food pellet molding up... So I had done a 50% when I removed the UGF and cleaned the gravel as well.


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

YAY!!! I did a 90% yesterday [MY FISH WERE ACLIMATED AND ARE PEPPY AS EVERY] And PH is back up between 6.6 and 7.0 I plan to do a 25 tonight and see if it goes back up to 7 and level out my Nitrate/Nitrite levels


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Wait... if your tap pH is 7, what is going on in your tank to bring the pH down two full points? Do you have a balsamic vinegar factory dripping into your tank or something?


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## VincentM (Aug 8, 2008)

I think my meter may be off...

My latest problem seems to be the fact my fish are losing scales.... I think the female drug this problem in, as she had one missing when I bought her, and lost another in the nurse tank.... now both are missing three scales


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