# Plecos not surviving



## meldiane (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi all! First post 

I do not have my water readings but I, today, took a water sample into Petco and they said all levels are normal.

My tank is 2 weeks old and plecos are NOT surviving. All my other fish are fine and have been active and happy.

I have noticed both plecos (1st and 2nd, never in the tank at the same time) would never eat. I gave the algae wafers and also fresh veggies. Nothing was touched by either of them. I found the second pleco dead just a few minutes ago. 

I am not sure what is going on for them not to survive. 

I have a 10 gallon tank with 4 plattys and one lyretail molly.

Is there anything else you need to know?

I have also just noticed in the last day they all seem to be chasing each other around a little more. I dont see biting going on but they are for sure all being a little more playful (or mean) - not sure which.,


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Plecos are the tanks of the freshwater aquarium. If they are not surviving then something is terribly wrong with your water. Don't trust what Petsmart or Petco tells you and do your own testing of the water. Once you have those results please post them here.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Also considering the tank is only 2 weeks old your probably still in the middle of cycling. So as said above your water stats are likely very poor despite what the shop said.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

[FONT=&quot]Dear fellow fish keeper,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the FishForums as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your *fish*)! 

Perhaps you've already heard of this, but I like to remind all the new members. A new tank needs to be cycled. This is a process of converting harmful ammonia and nitrites into less harmful nitrates. An uncycled tank is the number one killer of aquarium fish, and inadvertently happens to almost every beginner aquarist. Before putting any fish in your aquarium, make sure you read this guide to the Nitrogen Cycle. It is a long read, but by the time you are done with it, you know everything you need to know about the Nitrogen cycle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html [/FONT]
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*[FONT=&quot]***********Stuff you need for a healthy aquarium************[/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]1) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A tank large enough to house your fish. Many people overstock their tanks, and this can be very harmful to the fish. Make sure you get a tank large enough to hold all of your fish comfortably. Do research to see what the minimum size for your aquarium should be, and remember that it is a minimum size. Any more fish and you need a larger aquarium.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A heater. Most pet fish are tropical fish and need a heater. The only exception in common pet store fish, is the goldfish. The goldfish is a coldwater fish, and does not need a heater. All other fish need a heater to keep healthy (including bettas).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A filter. While most hobbyists keep a filter in their aquarium, many either keep the wrong size filter, or they don’t use one at all. There are many types of filters, and it’s important to know how much water it can push through it. It is recommended you get a filter that can push 8 to 10 gallons per hour for every gallon of water. If you have a 20 gallon tank, you want a filter that can push 160 to 200 gallons of water per hour. It is also important to remember that all fish need a filter. Even bettas and goldfish.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]An air pump. While a “hang on back” filter can provide enough oxygen to an aquarium at most times, it is still important to have an air pump. An air pump with an air stone connected will ensure that your fish have enough oxygen at all times. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lights. While this may not seem important, it is very important. Fish need light, just like other animals. They have sleep schedules and they can produce nutrients from light (humans do the same thing). If you don’t want to deal with turning them on and off every day, set them on a timer. [/FONT]

*[FONT=&quot]***********Common aquarium diseases************[/FONT]*
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[FONT=&quot]Common diseases:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ich – Looks like salt covering the body of the fish. This is a protozoan disease. Treat with high temperature water (85F for most tropical fish) and aquarium salt.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Fin Rot – Fin edges start to turn brown and fray. Usually occurs first in the caudal fin (tail), but can affect any fin. It looks like the fin is actually rotting away. This is usually a symptom of poor water conditions or injury. This is a bacterial disease. Treat with a 50% water change, antibiotics and aquarium salt. Melafix, Maracyn TC and Maracyn 2 are common antibacterial medications known to treat fin rot.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fungus Infection – Looks like cotton on the body. This is a fungal infection. Treat with antifungal medications and aquarium salt. Pimafix is a well-known antifungal treatment. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Dropsy/Bloat – Fish will get very fat, and fins can stick out like a pinecone. Treat with high water temperature (85F for most tropical fish), aquarium salt, and antibiotics. Maracyn TC and Maracyn 2 are common antibacterial medications. [/FONT]


*[FONT=&quot]***********Aquarium Clubs and Societies************[/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]Something that is actually very important in the fish keeping hobby, are the clubs and societies. There are many of them all over the world. If you are near a major city, you most likely have one nearby. This website keeps a good list of clubs, but there are many that it doesn’t have. Doing a quick Google search or asking about clubs in the Forums should find you a good list of clubs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.php[/FONT]

*[FONT=&quot]***********Local Fish Shops************[/FONT]*
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[FONT=&quot]http://fins.actwin.com/dir/stores.php [/FONT]

*[FONT=&quot]***********POTM/TOTM************[/FONT]*
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.aquabid.com/ - eBay, but for fish[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.liveaquaria.com/ - These guys sell fish, but its more useful for doing preliminary research on fish you want to buy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/pr/c/3578 - A great place to buy aquarium equipment[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.fishchannel.com/ - Lots of useful information here. They also print most of the fish magazines out there.[/FONT]


*[FONT=&quot]***********Final Notes************[/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]I hope all of the above information was useful. [/FONT]

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## meldiane (Nov 16, 2011)

Thank you SO much! Pictures of my tank are coming. Also, any recommendations on test kits to buy to give the best readings?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Plecos are very tough. They are often the last fish alive in filthy tanks with high nitrate. But the do have a few vulnerabilities. Gills are one of them. Ammonia burning gills will kill the biggest fish first. And Ich can kill a pleco before you see spots. It can't attach to the armored sides, so it really covers the gills and the fish suffocate. Water quality is most likely, but watch for symptoms such as scratching in your other fish.

Good post bml, you should sticky something like it.


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## meldiane (Nov 16, 2011)

Ok pic is up and so is all my fish. The strange thing is that all my other fish are fine


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

It should also be pointed out that if you are buying a common pleco at Petsmart and putting it into a 10 gallon tank, the fish will be longer than the tank as an adult.


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## meldiane (Nov 16, 2011)

Yeah and I realize that now and will not be buying another one but still makes me sad I lost 2 of them. I will be buying test kits tomorrow. Any advice on the best one to buy


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## mpfsr (Jun 22, 2011)

API master freshwater test kit is the one I use but any LIQUID test kit is fine. Don't waste your money on test strips. They are very inaccurate at best. If you go with the API kit make sure to read the instructions well before testing and shake the #2 bottle for nitrates till your arm hurts to make sure you mix it well as it has heavy compounds that need mixed well to insure an accurate reading.


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## betelgeuses pal (Nov 18, 2011)

meldiane said:


> Ok pic is up and so is all my fish. The strange thing is that all my other fish are fine


Lots of good observations others have posted here for you, but another not yet mentioned is Plecos are more sensitive to salt than many other fish and mollies and plattys are healtier with a little salt in their tanks. I am wondering if you've added salt for the plattys?

Also, back in the day when I first started keeping fish plecos couldn't be bred in captivity and some just plain wouldn't eat in captivity, so they'd get wild caught then could last months not eating to finally die in a tank.


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## Aquarion (Nov 16, 2011)

I recently had to move my 125-gallon aquarium to a new house. No movers so it was just me and my 110-lb wife to do the lifting. Obviously, all the water and substrate had to be removed. Water was dumped, most of the substrate was put into two 7-gallon plastic bins and taken separately. I was freaking out because I didn't want to have to re-cycle the tank with fresh water and lots of fish. 

Anyway, cutting to the chase and to make this something the OP might find useful: Using bio-media which is already established will quickly cycle a new tank from my experience. My tank cycled within a week. I actually didn't even test the water until 10 days into it as I couldn't find where I packed my freshwater test kit and finally broke down and bought a new one. 0/0 on ammonia and nitrite. 

Perhaps you could get a bucket of de-chlorinated water and get some established bio-media from your LFS and seed your filter with it?


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## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

mpfsr said:


> API master freshwater test kit is the one I use but any LIQUID test kit is fine. Don't waste your money on test strips. They are very inaccurate at best. If you go with the API kit make sure to read the instructions well before testing and shake the #2 bottle for nitrates till your arm hurts to make sure you mix it well as it has heavy compounds that need mixed well to insure an accurate reading.


[/I]

I have the API test kit. It's very accurate, but can be hard to read. I disagree with the test strips being inacurate. I have used those as well, and compared them to the API readings. They yeilded the same results. From my experience, the 5-1 test strips work just fine and are easier to read.


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## Aquarion (Nov 16, 2011)

Discordia said:


> [/I]
> 
> I have the API test kit. It's very accurate, but can be hard to read. I disagree with the test strips being inacurate. I have used those as well, and compared them to the API readings. They yeilded the same results. From my experience, the 5-1 test strips work just fine and are easier to read.


 The nitrate test in particular is obnoxious. I can not for the life of me tell the difference between 40 and 80 ppm. 

Does anyone know of an easier-to-read nitrate test?


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## meldiane (Nov 16, 2011)

Such great advice from all of you! And YES I was adding aquarium salt into the tank. I wonder if that is what did it.


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## Aquarion (Nov 16, 2011)

meldiane said:


> Such great advice from all of you! And YES I was adding aquarium salt into the tank. I wonder if that is what did it.


 How much? Some scaleless fish won't tolerate aquarium salt but to my knowledge a pleco should be able to handle small amounts. They're certainly not brackish though, so if you over-salted the aquarium that would explain them dying...


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## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Aquarion said:


> The nitrate test in particular is obnoxious. I can not for the life of me tell the difference between 40 and 80 ppm.
> 
> Does anyone know of an easier-to-read nitrate test?


You could try the 5-1 test strips by Jungle. I haven't had any problems with it. Relatively cheap... Hasn't steered me wrong yet.


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## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

If you buy the API kit be very careful. Nearly half the chemicals in the kit can cause chemical burns... It's definitely something you want to keep out of children's reach, despite the child-proof caps.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

That is true of any liquid test kit. Nature of the beast.


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## Big Nick (Nov 22, 2011)

meldiane said:


> Such great advice from all of you! And YES I was adding aquarium salt into the tank. I wonder if that is what did it.


Yeah a little bit of salt makes those plecos die. First hand experience with it.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i don't put salt in any of my tanks.....
if i were forced to acquire water testing products i would either go with lamotte or hach..
and the very first thing i would get would be deionized water....
certain rules for testing....

1. all equipment..i.e..test tubes..stoppers..droppers etc must be thoroughly cleaned with deionized water and left to air dry..... 

2.test reagents should be kept in a cool dark place..(but not the fridge..lol)

3. your skin should never touch what you are testing..it can alter your readings.

4. after testing wash everything in plain tap water..never use soap...rinse well..rinse again in deionized water and let air dry...keep test equipment covered when not using...


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## LoriL (Jun 19, 2011)

You know I've never had luck with Plecos and have essentially given up on all scaleless fish. My parameters test fine (a tad high on nitrates but not outrageous). Over 3 years I've had 3 die, along with 2 upside down catfish. They never showed signs of disease or distress. Yes they were all from Petco and Walmart so maybe that was the problem. Who knows. I'd stay away if I were you for atleast a couple months until your tank is completely cycled and you have the same water parameters consistently. Good luck


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

For those who are having trouble keeping plecos long term, plecos need wood in their diet. They will eat the driftwood and it is a necessary part of their diet. They may have short lives if they can not get the nutrients they need from driftwood.


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## Aquarion (Nov 16, 2011)

bmlbytes said:


> For those who are having trouble keeping plecos long term, plecos need wood in their diet. They will eat the driftwood and it is a necessary part of their diet. They may have short lives if they can not get the nutrients they need from driftwood.


 Do you need to switch out new driftwood from time to time, like every couple years?

I have a black bristlenose I've had for years. One of the first, if not the very first, fish I got. He's lasted through a lot over the years and while I do have three pieces of sizable driftwood in my setup (he sleeps under one almost constantly), I don't want them to "run out" or dry up and end up losing him unexpectedly one morning. 

I've also recently added a clown pleco, if that matters. Cute little guy.


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## elitesrock (May 4, 2011)

meldiane said:


> Such great advice from all of you! And YES I was adding aquarium salt into the tank. I wonder if that is what did it.


Yes, that is what did it, Plecos are very horrible at taking salt, especially with their "armor". I would stop adding salt, if you want more Plecos. And try Bristle Nose Plecos because regular Plecos get too big.


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## meldiane (Nov 16, 2011)

elitesrock said:


> Yes, that is what did it, Plecos are very horrible at taking salt, especially with their "armor". I would stop adding salt, if you want more Plecos. And try Bristle Nose Plecos because regular Plecos get too big.


Thanks! I might do that!


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