# Curse those German Rams!



## Pandapop (Dec 29, 2009)

Okay, so, I want a breeding pair of German Blue Rams (or butterfly fish, whatever you prefer to call it). 

*The problem? *
I can't afford / don't have the space for multiple rams to pair off! 

I can handle the spawning stages, but it's knowing what to do with all those extra adult fish afterwards. My local pet-shop has recently had these gorgeous fish in stock for a little over a week now, and I've been _dying_ to have a pair for months now -- and they're very reluctant about taking fish from anyone other than their suppliers (I once had to travel an hour to Petco just to drop off a few dozen platy babies), even if you've purchased the fish from them and they recognize you.

I know for a fact that *if* I can successfully breed the rams (which won't be easy to do, but I'm determined to do it and have the patience for it), I can either sell the babies once they're at the right age/size, or give them to some reliable people I know... or may end up keeping them once I can afford to get a few more larger tanks, and assuming there aren't a ton of babies.

The pet store sells these guys for over 11.99 USD each. I'm considering just getting them from Liveaquaria.com -- they sell for 8.99 USD (shipping is always pricey for any online fish store, but I can also get other fish I wanted from there as well... so it's actually more affordable this way).

I have a 20gal that's been cycling a little over 2 weeks, and I guess this is just enough room for _ONE_ pair of rams. Which is all I even want, anyway. 

I have looked _EVERYWHERE_ online for ways to sex the rams, and many sites will say one thing while others will say another. Is it even really possible to be completely (or at least 80%) sure you've found a male and female? 

Does anyone here own/breed German Blue Rams? If so, can you show me some pictures of your male/female, so that I can compare and try to figure out what I'm looking for? Or at least give me some tips/pointers?

The pet store here has a lot of stressed fish (small tank-space, lots of fish, no dividers in-between the tanks so the fish always see each other, etc) and the rams there are very dull in color. It may be stress, or it may be because of the colder water temperatures (I read that they brighten up in warmer water). Or even, they might not be fully mature yet.

How in the world do I tell the difference? At over 12 USD a pop, I can't afford to buy a bunch and hope I get a female out of them.

Please, anyone, help me. :C




This forum suggests that the females DO NOT have the shiny blue appearance within the black spots, while I've read around that it's actually the males who don't.
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This site talks about the blue sheen within the black spots on the female, and also mentions the pink belly.
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This one mentions the lack of black stripes on the male's pelvic fins -- whereas the females have it.
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This site also talks about the female's pink belly.
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...But if the fish are dull-colored in the store, how am I supposed to look for these signs? D:


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

it is very easy to sex german blue rams females have a bright purple/pink belly ive successfully done it with many customers. the larger they are the harder it is to tell tho and yes the more stressed they are the less it will show. if u plan on keeping only one pair and no other fish spawning should be easy. IME they are hardy fish just try to meet their ph requirements and everything. i will post a link to a male female pair picture in a minute. if u need to get rid of babies craigslist should be a pretty easy way to do it if u price them right.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

male 4.bp.blogspot.com/_adqsL88bfM4/TI92Ec05W_I/AAAAAAAAAOw/6c60R7EA-8M/s640/germanram2.gif
female tropicalfishforum.net/photopost/data/500/German_Blue_Ram.JPG also if u get only one pair they are likely to pair off they always have for me and everyone else i know. if one does happen to kill the other u will have to get another one and keep trying. and i have never heard of them being called butterfly fish before?


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## Pandapop (Dec 29, 2009)

Yeah, I don't want any other fish in there. Just the pair of rams... since they get so aggressive during spawning time. A 20gal is 'big', but not THAT big, and I have plently of other similar sized or smaller tanks to add different fish to, so... yup. Just the two!

I didn't get that great of a look at the rams, but I'd say they were roughly around 1.5 inches in length, give or take.


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## Pandapop (Dec 29, 2009)

The "Butterfly Fish" I actually meant "Butterfly Cichlid." I never heard of it either until just recently when a site or two mentioned it.

So... the males DO have the black on their pelvic fins? And it looks like the blue sheen on the females' black dots is correct... as well as the pink belly. 

On the dorsal fin, is the males more pointed at the end near the tail, and the females more rounded? I read that somewhere too, and it kind of seems that way from the two pictures, but it's hard to tell. :C


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

they really arnt that bad durring spawning the just pretty much chase the fish off rather then relentlessly attack them like most of the larger cichlids. some of that stuff is true most of the time but i wouldnt rely on sexing them that way it can be pretty acurate and it will most likely just confuse the hell out of u when u are trying to identify them as they are swimming around. ive seen females with some pretty pointy dorsal fins before. as for the black i think ive seen it both way but idk dont really focus that hard on it.


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## FishBreeding (Aug 13, 2010)

what size tank is suggested for breeding them because i love those fish too


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

i would do 29 gallons in able to hold more babies but seperate tanks work also.


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