# New cichlids!



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I went to the fish auction in Minneapolis today and I got some fish! I also bought a 40 gallon aquarium w/ glass top for $8. No one was bidding on the aquariums. I also got the 5 cichlids for $5.

The fish I bought are some sort of Pseudotropheus cichlid. I am not sure exactly what kind they are. One of them looks exactly like the dwarf mbuna except it is purple, not blue. The others also look like the dwarf mbuna, but they don't have pronounced stripes on them, and they are a much less stunning purple color. I am guessing that either one is male and rest female, or the less colorful ones are just not mature enough for their colors. One of the less colorful ones does appear to have more pronounced black stripes than the rest.

All of the fish are juveniles and are about 1.5 inches long (at the most). I put them in the 40 gallon tank for now. 

Pictures coming soon!


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Stunning purple Mbuna, no stripes. My first guess is P. Socolofi aka Pindani. http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=919 Juvies or stressed fish will show dark stripes or checkboards, but they will later go solid lavender, both males and females. A beautiful fish, a bit aggressive and bigger than many Psuedos. I hope your 40 is 4 ft. long. Add lots of rocks or PVC pipe or whatever hiding places you can find.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

The fish have almost already lost their deep purple color, and have turned lavender. Their stripes are disappearing too. 

The tank is not a 4 ft one, but it is also not a 40 breeder. The shape is looks more like my 55 gallon tank, only slightly smaller. I will get a picture as soon as I find a camera.

While typing this up, I noticed that one of the fish had gotten his stripes back and his fins turned dark. He started to chase one of the other cichlids around and then that fish's fins turned dark. I think you must be right about the stress thing. I plan to add LOTS of hiding places tomorrow.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

OK here are the fuzzy pics. Better ones are still to come once I decorate the tank and find a better camera than my phone.

The tank:









The fish when they are lavender:









A lavender one and a purple striped one (stressed?):










I also noticed that when I go over by the tank that the fish that is easily stressed, turned purple and gets stripes. He then goes over by the other cichlids and viberates next to them. What is he doing?


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

OK I think I found out exactly what they are. The link emc7 gave me were for some blue ones that look very similar to these. But the "Aggresive Grey Head" looks closer to the right color and coloring pattern as my fish. 

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=839

BTW I looked through every pseudotropheus on the cichlid forums to find this one.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have to agree my first guess isn't quite right. Some of them look like socolofi, but the one w/ prominent dark bars is obviously not. Its a male and the shaking is courting behavior. Was there a seller name or phone number on the bag? If you had bought them in a store I would say hybrid, but at a real fish auction its actually more likely to be rare in the hobby psuedotropheus. Or maybe an Cynotilapia afra variant.


----------



## SouthernBelle23 (Mar 24, 2009)

Nice looking Cichlids. 

I was gonna guess Cynotilapia afra cobue. Especially seeing the darker one and the lavender ones. Check out all the pics at cichlidforum of those guys and see what you think. I had some of these....they only grow about 3-3.5" full grown but the males are pretty mean...I had 2 males, one was definitely the dominant one and while they never scrapped or fought, they tried to intimidate each other, even at 1-1.5". They sure were fun to watch!

Hopefully you'll figure out what you have. In the mean time, I'd get some rocks in the tank so they'll feel more at home.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I am fairly certain that they are all the same species fish. One of the fish gets the bars and looses them sometimes. All of the fish were a dark purple color when I was putting rocks in the tank today.

I called the number on the bag. I got the fish keeper's father, who has been in the hobby for 30+ years. He said he didn't know what kind of fish they were since him and his son don't do cichlids that much. The seller (son) had bought them from another member of the Minnesota Aquarium Society because they looked cool, but later got bored with cichlids. Appearently they do live bearers mostly.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

South the fish get the yellow color sometimes, but not nearly that bright of a yellow color. Also the black bars are fatter. Their dorsal fin is also a solid black or lavender color. There are no stripes on the dorsal or white color.

I went through their list of cichlid looking at every fish that had Pseudotropheus in the scientific name. The one I linked above is the closest one I can find.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Here are higher quality pics and a video
























[yt]K-1hY964wSA[/yt]


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm gonna agree with Belle. From the video they look a lot like my C. Afra "Cobwe" or "Cobue". I had trouble reading the label on the bag. I'll see if I can find a good pic. 

Anyway, they look like great fish.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I think I found them this time. They look very close to the C. Afra "Cobue" but I still see some minor differences. I found this page that says they are Pseudotropheus sp. Kingsizei. It also states:


PracticalFishKeeping.co.uk said:


> The Lake Malawi mbuna Pseudotropheus sp Kingsizei is virtually always mis-sold as Cynotilapia afra, says Matt Clarke.


It also suggests that a 3 foot tank is ok for these fish and that they grow to 4". 

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=226


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Use lots of rocks or "cichlid stones" or other hiding places. You may eventually have to remove extra males and just keep a harem. Don't be bothered by chasing but remove any fish that is losing big pieces of tail (or remove the tail-biter). Still can't tell exactly what it is. Take more pictures after they get a bit bigger. I doubt that any metriaclima stays only 4". I have seen the "white top hara" afra and they are stunning. I love the true Pseudos and the C. Afra, either way you have a nice fish.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I went down to the river yesterday and picked up a bunch of granite and put it in there. I made tunnels and caves out of it. Did the amount of rocks in the video not look like enough? Although I guess I didn't really get a good overall shot of the tank.

I watched them today, and there didn't seem like any real aggressive behavior. Just the thing you called mating behavior the other day. A male fish will vibrate next to a female, then the female might tip sideways for just a second then swim away. I was scared that they didn't like the water at first, but then I realized that it was directly related to the vibrating the other fish did.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The rocks in the video look good. What you want is 2 or 3 hiding places for each fish. My main concern is the shortness of the tank and the aggression of the fish. I suspect you will be just fine for a year or two. IME these fish are great when small, but you sometimes a fish will grow bigger and get suddenly meaner and start chewing on the rest of the fish in the tank. I haven't seen it with C. Afra, but I've seen it P. Saulosi and P. sp. "daktari". The only solution is a bigger tank or one-way trip for the big meanie. I'm fortunate to have a LFS that will take big Mbuna for trade credit. Usually by the time this happens you have 2 or 3 generations of fry, so its not a big deal to part with the "show fish".


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I hear that they are very easy to breed since they are mouth breeders. Will they eat the fry after they leave the mother's mouth? I would assume they do. I'll probably have to get a little QT tank for the fry to grow up in if I want to keep them right?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Do nothing and a few fry will appear in the tank over time. Pull holding mothers and put them in a separate tank and you will get a lot more.


----------



## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

I have way to many fry in my tank. There must be at least 60 to and she's carrying more eggs now. Fun is in your future of mouth brooders.


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Did you get the fry from the fish in your 75 gallon tank?


----------



## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

Yep. 
It actually started with two fish I found at the store.They just kept busy and still do. I have a couple of others in the tank but the bulk of the fish came from the two of them.


----------



## Guest (Oct 27, 2009)

*Food for thought*

*It seems to me that in this age of mass production of tank bred and raised fish that it is not impossible for two separate species of Mbuna for example kept in the same community tank could cross, and produce viable young, that against all odds made it to adulthood and this cycle continued. It is gonna make threads like this one very interesting in the future, trying to identify fish that are nowhere else in nature and have never truely been described. The lakes of Africa do indeed hold several distinct species, but in my 30 plus years of fishkeeping there never seems to be an end to the varieties i see turning up in forums and dealers tanks. As a purist in the hobby, i really do hate to see this taking place. Although some of the crosses within the same species can be rather attractive, it scares me to think that this hobby is headed toward tanks and tanks full of blood parrots. My appologies to anyone who think these are cute  *


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm with you, anti-hybrid. Some hybrids look great, but they don't breed true. I don't want to spend 20 generations to get a nice fish when there of thousands of great cichlid species. You really take a chance with any fish from an "assorted" African tank. I understand a red zebra/yellow lab cross is becoming really common. 

Fish clubs and auctions tend to have pure-bred (if inbred) strains of lots of uncommon fish as the cichlid newbs give a good education in the clubs and stop keeping closely related cichlids together. If you are at all unsure what a fish is, just don't mix it. You can keep breeding the same strain and 3 or 10 generations from now an expert will come to town and tell you what they are.


----------



## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm not for hybrids either. Pseudotropheus Ice Blue or William's Mbuna. 1 Male and 1 Female.
All the others are offspring from them. They will not mix with the yellow labs. In fact when she starts carrying eggs the male keeps all others up in the corner of the tank. Males are a bright purplish blue and the females are of a more like duller towards brown color.
You should see this guy when she starts picking up eggs he starts turning like a pure white color and stripes pop out.

:fish::fish::fish:


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Do all male cichlids turn white when their mate gathers eggs? Yours appears brown.


----------



## smark (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm not sure if all do but I have seen a few of mine color morf at different times. 
Females do this also. You can some times see the stripes become more pronounced.
I think you got a great deal at that auction. Wish I would have made it there.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The colors vary quite a bit. But all the males do that shimmy/shake-my-tail thing. If she accepts, watch for 2 fish going around in circles.


----------

