# African or south american cichlids?????????



## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

I have a 75 gal. tank that has been up and running for four months and was clonned from my 10 gal that had been up for...idk prolli more than 5 or 6 months. The tank currently has 3 medium size (3-4") feeder gold fish, 4 tiger barbs, and a 6" dragon goby(i know some ppl say he needs brackish, but he has been in completely fresh water for 9+ months and looks great and has very bright colors). The tank is lightly planted with 5 aponogeton bulbs on one side of the tank that reach all the way to the top of the tank. I have some other fake plants and a couple big rocks. The tank has a VERY thin layer of substrate wich consists of mostly slightly larger then pea sized gravel, some smaller blue & white rocks, and some shells(i know they increase hardness). 

Now on to the point of this thread. The tank looks pretty empty and boring, and i am thinking about converting it over to either an african/south american cichlid tank. Right now i am leaning more twords african, but any suggestions would be great. i dont have any water parameters right now, but i will prolli have some, if not all, tomorrow. 

Would either type of fish eat my plants? I dont really care if they do(if they are hungry, go ahead and eat), but i would just like to know. What kind of fish would some of you suggest for my tank? I was at the pet store today and wrote down a few fish that i particulalily liked. The "venustus" was one fish that really caught my eye. I also liked the sunshine peac0ck, and this is prolli a dumb question, but do they only come in yellow? The "zebra blue BB" is a REALLY great looking one and if i go african that one is a must.

As for the south american cichlids i like the jack dempseys, the firemouth cichlid, and the green terror.

What do you guys(and girls) think??? Do any of these fish prefer to be in pairs or groups? How many mediums sized fish do you think i would be able to have?

All sugestions welcome!!!!


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

vinimack720 said:


> Would either type of fish eat my plants? I dont really care if they do(if they are hungry, go ahead and eat), but i would just like to know. What kind of fish would some of you suggest for my tank? I was at the pet store today and wrote down a few fish that i particulalily liked. The "venustus" was one fish that really caught my eye. I also liked the sunshine peac0ck, and this is prolli a dumb question, but do they only come in yellow? The "zebra blue BB" is a REALLY great looking one and if i go african that one is a must.
> 
> As for the south american cichlids i like the jack dempseys, the firemouth cichlid, and the green terror.


Hi,
If you're thinking of mixing them with the current fish, pls don't. Totally incompatible.
Firemouths are Central American cichlids. JDs, FMs, and GTs are far too aggressive and this will limit your choices. Any cichlid from Lake Malawi will eat your plants.
Goldfish shouldn't really be mix with the tiger barbs.
Two reasons:
1. They are coldwater fish while barbs are tropicals so temp requirement is far too different.
2. Tiger barbs can nip so your goldfish might end up with tattered fins when the space is lessened due to your plan of adding more fish.

Your dragon goby has to go. It's not worth putting them in freshwater conditions any longer.
I'd say you convert your tank to Amazon biotope. With such a large tank, discus and altum angels will fit nicely. If not stick with several shoaling tetras, ancistrus and apistos. If you want this biotope, your current fish will have to go.

Good luck.


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## craftyflalady (Jan 25, 2006)

*Blue pretty much nailed that one! Good job! *


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2006)

I say go for Africans! Yes, I have to be different. They will probably eat your plants, but you said you don't care. You can get more plants like Java ferns and anubias that might stand a better chance. Malawi Mbuna are pretty much all herbivores, so no wonder plants don't stand a chance. Pea****s would be a better choice if you want to keep your plants.

African Mbuna should be kept in groups. Its best to do 1 male to 3-4 females of each type.

Check out the cookie cutter setups on cichlid-forum.com so you can see what your options are.

In any case, Africans or South American cichlids, you will have to get rid of your current stock.

I am currently planning a 55g Mbuna tank and plan to have Labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow labs), Pseudotropheus socolofi , and another type that I haven't decided on yet.


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

Go for africans. I've only had mine for a little over a month, but so far I've been very glad with my choice. I would go for Malawi Mbuna's, but you should def add some caves n' such if ur gonna go that route.


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

I should have been more clear in my first post. All the current ressidents of my tank will go to new homes before i add any new fish. 

I just did my Ph test and it came back around 7.8. This is the only test i have right now but i will take a sample to my lfs to get it tested for all the other stuff.

Hey JustOneMore20, how many of each type of fish are you going to put in with your plan on the 55 gal?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

7.8 is fine for Malawi fish. Also ok for Jewels, kribs from west africa and convicts, texas cichlids and other central americans. Not ok for Angels, Discus, or apistos from the amazon. Pea****s will eat your plants, the mbuna will just uproot them. 75 is a great size for for malawi cichlids, you can keep big fish like venustus that you cant put in a 55. I would put 8 fish eacg of 3 different kinds in the 75. One Pea****, one dark, one light mbuna. Leave open areas for the pea****s and huge rockpiles for the mbuna.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

7.8 is fine for Malawi fish. Also ok for Jewels, kribs from west africa and convicts, texas cichlids and other central americans. Not ok for Angels, Discus, or apistos from the amazon. Pea****s will eat your plants, the mbuna will just uproot them. 75 is a great size for for malawi cichlids, you can keep big fish like venustus that you cant put in a 55. I would put 8 fish eacg of 3 different kinds in the 75. One Pea****, one dark, one light mbuna. Leave open areas for the pea****s and huge rockpiles for the mbuna.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Africans require tons of filtration. your GPH should be 8-10x minimum the tank size. so a 75g should be around 750gph minimum, especially in a smaller tank like a 75g. also malawi fish like the PH up over 8 closer to 8.5 so you would need to use a substrate like crushed coral to buffer it over 8. i have also read that PH anywhere from 7.4-8.6 works, but from most of the african buffs say around 8-8.5PH is best.
Plants are not really an option. Even if the fish decide not to eat the plants (which they will) they will certainly dig them up a lot. they are hardcore diggers, so unless you have java attached to driftwood, they will most definately be floating on the top. 
Research what part of the lake the species your stocking are from. some prefer sand bottom and some prefer rocks, so be prepared to over compensate for both types for territorial rights. also be sure to get species that occupy diffrent parts of the tank.
granted they are beautiful fish, but their tank needs as a lot of planning before stocking. but well worth it in the end. head into the chatroom while Lohota and malawian are in there and ask questions, Loh is a lake Tanganyika guru and malwaian is obv. they can steer you in the right direction as well or better then anyone else on this topic. they are helping me with my 220g african.

cheers


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2006)

> Hey JustOneMore20, how many of each type of fish are you going to put in with your plan on the 55 gal?


I plan to have 3 groups of 4 (1m/3f). I have changed my mind on the stocking though...I'm going with Yellow labs, Cynotilapia afra (Cobue), and Eureka peaco-cks (Aulonocara jacobfreibergi "Eureka").
I am going to attempt to keep java fern, anubias, and some vals with my Malawis...we'll see how that goes.
7.8 is a good pH. My tap pH is around 7.2-7.4 (after sitting 24 hours), so I'll need to add some crushed coral to raise mine a little.

Emc, I think you got Mbuna and Peaco-cks mixed up...Mbuna are herbivores, so more than likely will eat the plants...Peaco-cks are carnivores. Both probably dig though.

Do alot of research before you buy. I still have a ways to go before I set mine up...I'm still gathering info. 

Good luck!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> Peaco-cks are carnivores


 Maybe yours are, mine eat flake, pellet, snails and duckweed. My mbuna leave hornwort (floating) alone.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Hmm... Im going to contradict everybody in this thread and say go for the american cichlids. It is different from whatmost beginners want in their tanks, which is small, active , colorfull fish, but In a tank that size Id say It would be more fun to have some large fish, which are really more like pets, and lots of the "big ones" will become very owner responsive, and some even enjoy being petted. You could go with either One Very large fish like a Green terror or an Oscar with maybe a pair of firemouths or a salvini or something, Or you could do something like a pair of severums or Jacks, with some fish like silver dollars and plecos. Personally, I love most everything about green terrors. They fit in a 75 gallon, They are responsive, they are beautifully colored. But They are still a typical cichlid, meaning it depends on the individual you get on whether they are layed back, and you can put in more fish, or if you get the psycopathic fish who wants to rule the world. Oscars are not very aggressive and can be kept with another fish, but since they can grow quite large (ive seen 16" ones in person) some people will say that would be too big of a bioload. 
Jack dempseys are great fish. They dont grow TOO big, they are responsive, and they have alot of personality. They usually arent overly aggressive when kept with cichlids of similar size, but once again, make sure you dont get the "natural Born Killer" fish, so you will be able to have some other fish in there as well.
Sevs are great fish, and are only occasionally aggressive. They are very personal, and are quite beautiful, especially the gold variety whih can have red markings all over the body. You will be able to keep other fish (like a jack) in with them, and overall they make a good wetpet.

For South americans (or central for that matter) They dont like the hardwater conditions of the africans and you would want to remove the shells in favor of a large peice of driftwood, which will keep the water soft and stable.

Your pH should be fine, And most cichlids do better in a stable pH than a recommended one.

Whwew, that was long.... If I forgot anything Ill post again. Good luck, go with whatever will make you happy!

EDIT: oh, and keep in mind that while you would be able to buy a smaller tank like a 55 in the future for the africans, The americans NEED a tank of this size so unless your planning on buying another tank of 75 gallons or more, Id put any americans in this one so you could have both eventually.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2006)

> Maybe yours are, mine eat flake, pellet, snails and duckweed. My mbuna leave hornwort (floating) alone


I don't have any, but I've been doing alot of reading and read that they are carnivores. I was also told that they should leave plants alone. But I've decided to stick to Mbuna, so I don't have to worry about the peaco-cks now.

Vinimack, have you decided what you want?


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> I don't have any, but I've been doing alot of reading and read that they are carnivores. I was also told that they should leave plants alone. But I've decided to stick to Mbuna, so I don't have to worry about the peaco-cks now.
> 
> Vinimack, have you decided what you want?


Well, im going to stick with the africans...its really hard to choose which ones i want because there are just sooooo many. I was on that cookie cutter for a 75 gal tank for a while but it was hard to do because i dont know which fish i would be able to get in my area and how much they would cost. I only have 1 privately owned pet store around here and they will charge you out the @ss if you let them. I was there a few days ago and they wanted $40 for a small clown loach...

I bookmarked some of the fish that i really like, but im not on my computer right now so ill post them up later. Can you mix and match with those cookie cutter set ups? I know that it says dont mix and 2 species of labs and a few other fish, but other then that will a lot of them get along together if they have enough other fish to spread the agression around?

I know that i am going to want about 3-4 different types of fish with 5 or so of each type to give the tank lots of color and movement. 

where is the best place to find the right kind of rocks to put in the tank?? I see some lace rock on pets stores web sites but its like $20 a piece and that just seems crazy for rocks...there rocks....rocks are free...I would like some lace rock or some holy rock but i dont want to pay the pet store prices. where do these kinds of rocks come from? what other kind of rocks can i use that are easily available?


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2006)

For rocks, check with a local landscaping company. You can probably find a big selection of rocks and they shouldn't be too expensive. It just depends on the place though and if you can find a landscaping place.

In a 75g I'd probably stick with 4 types with 5-6 of each type.

You can mix and match the setups, but they do say not to mix labidochromis species and thats so they won't interbreed (or atleast that's what I was told). Same thing for Pseudotropheus species. In a 75g you could probably have some of the more aggressive Mbuna like demansoni and johanni. I'm not certain though.

Do you have any good rock around where you live? I know there is alot of slate around my house and all I'd have to do is clean it really good and its free! I like round rocks better though, so I'll have to see if I can find them and how much they cost.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I second the landscaping place, we used to bring buckets and buy cobblestones by the pound. Limestone is also good, esp. if you need to raise your tank's hardness.


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