# Went to petsmart and had an interesting conversation with an employee...



## Betta man

So, yesterday I went to petsmart to buy a betta. (it's in the thread Shazam)
So, I talked to the employee and asked if she kept fish. She said she kept a 110 gal, a 70 gal and a 8 gal reef tank. I heard on this forum that I CAN"T keep a 8 gal saltwater reef tank with damsel fish in it, but this person KEEPS a 8 gal reef tank. AND says that I could keeep damsels in it. I asked about a 5 gal and she said "that would work". What do you guys think about that?


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## kay-bee

Multiple damsels in a tank smaller than 10gal? Probably not a good idea for *long term* success. 

What species of damsel? (some get fairly large..as in attain and/or exceed 5").

A single damsel (belonging to a species which maxes out at 2"), a 10gal may make a do-able solitary tank.

Adding the "reef" element (which entails adding live corals) only adds another layer of complexity. (smaller tank volume=more complex system...meaning harder to maintain). Not saying it can't be done, but it will be harder than say a 29gal or 55gal.


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## emc7

I've seen these teeny reef tanks with corals and shrimp, usually on the counter of the SW LFS. Really cute. I haven't heard you "can't" do small tanks, only that larger tanks are more stable therefore less work and less risk (of killing everything) for a beginner. And smaller isn't necessarily cheaper.

Damsels are now tank-bred and they are about the hardiest of SW fish available. I've seen them for $5. But they are aggressive. You treat them like jewel cichlids. One fish or 'happily married' pair per tank. One damsel in a FO 10 should be workable. But I have no idea how it would work for corals.


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## Betta man

I was thinking the types that max at 2 inches. 2 in a tank.


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## emc7

I repeat, one adult in a tank unless they are a mated pair. It has nothing to do with bioload, just territory size. They will likely kill each other. 

There is a chance you could get lucky and get 2 that get along. Like with bettas and cichlids, personalities vary from fish to fish. But if you wait until the beatings start to pull one you'd need a hosp. tank standing by.


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## funlad3

Okay... You CAN keep a 5 gallon SW tank, but if one thing changes or if you forget to add top off water for one day, your parameters are going to get all messed up and you'll likely KILL whatever you have. You could very easily get away with something small though, like a tail spot blenny.


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## TheOldSalt

We didn't sat that you can't do it. We said that YOU can't do it. LOL

What do I think of it? I think you are listening far too much to a petsmart employee who is trying to sell you something.

Fine. Whatever. Do what you want. When you fail epically, and you will, we don't wanna hear one bit of whining out of you. We told you so.


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## funlad3

"I think you are listening far too much to a petsmart employee who is trying to sell you something."

Even if they don't sell salt water fish or equipment, they're still banking on the fact, literally, that you come to them for help so that they can sell you whatever you'll buy. 

If you're going to do SW, at least do a 29 gallon. It will make your life so much easier.


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## Betta man

TheOldSalt said:


> We didn't sat that you can't do it. We said that YOU can't do it. LOL
> 
> What do I think of it? I think you are listening far too much to a petsmart employee who is trying to sell you something.
> 
> Fine. Whatever. Do what you want. When you fail epically, and you will, we don't wanna hear one bit of whining out of you. We told you so.


The employee knew I already had a 5 gal and she DIDN'T mention anything about me buying there. She just recommended an aquarium club.


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## funlad3

You can listen to us, or you can listen to a PetSmart person. Your choice.


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## Betta man

I think a little of both...


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## TheOldSalt

No. That doesn't work. That's not an option. The advice you would get from each would almost always be diametrically opposed, and you would no doubt try to do something in the middle, which would fail. Plus, we'd have to listen to your comments on what they said all the time, and we'd be so busy laughing our heads off over it that we'd forget to offer you any actually useful info, so again you'd fail.

Look, you CAN NOT PUT TWO DAMSELS IN A 5 GALLON TANK. Or a 10. You just can't. It will. not. work. period.

Tiny reeftanks are for experts, because noobs don't know enough to recognize and repair every little thing that constantly goes wrong in them pretty much every single day. Experts do, so they can get away with it. We make those tiny tanks not because they are easy, cheap & convenient, but because we are showing off to our buddies how awesome we are in being able to do it at all. Of course we say _"aw shucks, 'tweren't nuthin"_ because making it look easy ( for us ) is the whole point of doing it. They are really exercises in aquaristic masochism.

FishForums is all about helping people avoid the mistakes of others who've already made them. Petsmart is all about helping people make numerous mistakes so they'll buy lots of stuff. Experienced hobbyists don't shop at petsmart very much; they know better, so petsmart preys on the noobs as much as possible until they wise up.
The choice of who to believe is clear.


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## Betta man

I have heard of a saltwater aquarium society in Ca. that I might go to...


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## Betta man

I do want to start out with a 20. I understood that you guys said that it wouldn't work to keep saltwter in a 5 gal. One damselfish would be enough for me. They're pretty and they're saltwater.


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## funlad3

One damsel in a 20 gallon should be fine.


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## Betta man

In a 20, I want more than one damsel. I think I can keep a Royal Gramma in it... Of a pair of clowns...


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## funlad3

Two damsels will kill each other in a 20! A pair of clown fish would be pushing it in a 20 gallon, but it could be done with proper filtration. Again though, why not get a larger tank at that cost?


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## TheOldSalt

A pair of clowns will just barely work in a 20 long, and if you provide proper structures on each opposite end, you could even add a Gramma. No damsels, though; a damsel would totally wreck this whole plan.


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## outnumbered

I've done 10 and 12 gallon nano reefs in the past and they can work but you are going to have to be on top of your parameters. There is no way I would have put one damsel in that tank, much less two. In the 12 gallon I had a bicolor blenny and in the 10 I had a pair of sexy shrimp. If you're open to other options, there are fish that are more suited for the nano sized tanks....if you're heart is set on damsels I would suggest starting off with a larger tank.


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## platies pwn

ressurection!


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## grogan

1st rule about petsmart/petco: a sales associate cannot refuse a sale. They will sell you a Oscar in in a gold fish bowl . I'm not a salt water person but even with fresh water, such a small tank is very hard to maintain . The others above a right, being able to maintain such a small tank is for experts only. It is not worth wasting your time . Not trying to say that this isn't possible, just saying that it will be more of a pain than its worth.


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## grogan

I shop at petsmart too and the girls there have told me about this policy. they can actually get a write up for turning down a sale. It's really sad, especially since not all of them are idiots.


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## Betta man

platies pwn said:


> ressurection!


I was going to say that.    :evil: :lol:


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## Betta man

grogan said:


> 1st rule about petsmart/petco: a sales associate cannot refuse a sale. They will sell you a Oscar in in a gold fish bowl . I'm not a salt water person but even with fresh water, such a small tank is very hard to maintain . The others above a right, being able to maintain such a small tank is for experts only. It is not worth wasting your time . Not trying to say that this isn't possible, just saying that it will be more of a pain than its worth.


Not at the ones near my house. At petsmart, the person there is very trustworthy. I asked her how certain things they sold there would fit in my 20 and she said they wouldn't! Same with the guy at petco! They both know what they're doing. They both keep saltwater.


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## Nazz4232

So if I wanted to start a ten gallon. What type of fish can you put in there. I was thinking maybe a neon yellow go by and maybe a clown. What do you guys think?


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## Guest

Anyone know where I can buy a great white or maybe a dolphin? 
Salt water cost to much, all the stuff you need to run one tank that just crazy.
Not only that but salt? Wow think of the money u going to spend on salt. Lol


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## Ghost Knife

ForMany said:


> Anyone know where I can buy a great white or maybe a dolphin?
> Salt water cost to much, all the stuff you need to run one tank that just crazy.
> Not only that but salt? Wow think of the money u going to spend on salt. Lol


I will always just have freshwater aquariums. Paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars just for lightning is beyond my comprehension.


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## Betta man

now it's my turn! Resurrection II!


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## iheartfish:)

What does that mean, resurrection? I mean, not the definition, but the context.


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## Betta man

It is kinda like coming back to life.


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## kay-bee

Fish Only SW set ups are very inexpensive to operate (I have two of those) and are essentially run like FW tanks and use the same lighting and are very low cost to set up and operate. My only expenses are salt (for water changes) and food for the fish.

I've got a 20gal SW housing a non-photosynthetic predatory corallimorph (a pseudocorynactis, a mushroom coral that's very similar to an anemone). My expenses are salt and a silverside every week or two. Less expensive to run than my FW tanks. No live fish because it would eat them.

I lucked out big time and acquired a a free 29gal Biocube with stand from a person who was moving the very next day and just needed to get rid of it. I stocked it with excess corals that I already had, and only had to get two new PC bulbs for it, a thermometer and a small powerhead. Very inexpensive to operate (no fish in this tank, just corals and inverts).


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## Ladayen

resurrection means a thread has been abandoned and left for dead then someone posts in it out of the blue. Also called necro'd on certain forums. Generally it's frowned upon and you are encouraged to make a new thread.


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## iheartfish:)

Oh, I see. haha oops I think I've done that...


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