# Should I start?



## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

I am 14 and I have wanted a fish tank for a couple years. Recently I have been saving my allowance drulling at the fact of owning a fancy smancy windows mobile pda. Dell axiem... :shock: But anyway I have this fish tank (no filter, heater, gravel, etc.... Just a tank I made it into a terrarium after I had a plant phase and wanted to keep carnivorus plants. in it so i set that up and I got this unknown tropical plant and it just grew and it choked my poor venus fly trap and other things of water. Its still alive after not being watered for about 2 years now and its a rain forest plant 0__o. Now onto the point I was thinking of finally ripping that plant out and turning that aquarium actually into an aqurium. So i goto this little pet shop up the street called all about pets. And I ask what Ill need because I looked on the internet and found some cool fresh water tiny fish to fit in my 12 gallon tank and I wanted to see what the store had. After totaling the caust It came to arround $80 to $90 dollars not counting what I paid for the tank. So now im torned between the cool fancy guppies and my flashy pda. I have always gawked at aquariums wishing I owned one. I talked to my friend and asked him how much he enjoyed his tank He said for the first couple weeks it was cool but now its just a ho hum fish. So I have 2 questions. 

1 is that price too much should I hit a chain like pets mart or the Mejier pets department? 

2. Is it worth my time do they get old and boring or will I seem to like them Like I like other peoples tanks all the time?


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

You could get a full set up for a 10G for $49 at Walmart.... this includes, filter, heater, lights, hood...
A 10G kit with everything but heater is $29. 
Depending on what you need the cost will vary. 
A 5-10 filter will cost $10 at Walmart
10lbs of gravel $5
heater $19-29
These all are at the low end, if you want high end equipment it will cost. 


Now you said 12G and I have never heard of a 12G.

But there are unexpected costs that may arise with fish, such as medication ect...


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## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

I spent about $150 on my set-up... that included buying the tank. I also got the name-brand water conditioners, medicine, gravel, plants (both live and plastic), decorations, light/hood, aerator, filter, heater, breeding net (since I have guppies, and I knew they'd breed all the time). I also didn't buy stuff that was the cheapest... not the most expensive either, but kinda "decent".
I've had my fish for 4 months, and I haven't gotten bored of them. In fact... I want to set up a _real_ breeding set-up and try my hand at getting guppies to eventually show at contests and stuff. That'll take a couple years, though. Then I got to thinking I might want to do a saltwater tank, too.
On the other hand... my husband got his tank all going, and now hardly even watches his fish. He'll feed them, watch them for about five minutes, then ignore them until the next day (he only feeds them in the morning, before work).
I suppose it depends on your personality.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

thx guys I think Ill buy the stuff thanks for the feedback I just wndered about the bored thing and I want fancy guppies so should I get that net thing u were talking about? the store up the street sells the fancy guppies in a pair male and female. I also I was eyeing the african assorted fish but the sign said aggressive 0_o so I think Ill leave them alone.maybe some tiger fish they were cool and a sucker fish the kind that help cleans they had a neat black one. And the tank is probably 10g like u said but I bought it a couple years ago.


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## Thunderkiss (Mar 19, 2005)

Just like kids, it often seems that tanks are better when they are other peoples 
It IS work, but if you are into it, it is, of course, well worth the time. Especially if you get fish to breed. Makes it all worthwhile.


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## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

If you're not sure about how many gallons it holds, you could always do what I did... put the water in gallon jugs, and count how many you pour in there. My tank is labled as 10 gallons, but it only holds 8 and a half... and that's filled clear up to the top! (it might also be the space taken up by my gravel, decorations and plants, too)

The breeder net is relatively easy to find. It's just a small compartment, that goes in your tank with holes small enough for the water to flow through, but not for fish to escape. I tried the plastic box kind. Then I figured it was too small, and got a frame with netting over it - it's nice and big, but after only 2 weeks is _covered_ with brown algae... which my guppies and mollies like to pick at, but I dun' like how it looks ;p
You can get breeding boxes/nets for under $10 depending on what size you get.

Guppies really should be in "trio"s. One male, two (or more) females - that way, the females don't get stressed from only one being pestered the whole time by the male. In fact, I think that rule is applied to any livebearer.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

neat but I actually found the stupid peice of cardboard that went around the tank when I bought it and it says 10 gallons it was in my 6th grade science project what do you know lol anywho I have one more question what is cycling and how do I do it? wait......... thats 2.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

See if you can talk your parents into going halfsies with you. And tell them you are going to study the breeding habits of guppies for another future science project. :wink: 

About getting bored, I have been in the hobby for over 12 years now and I am still learning new things everyday. This hobby teaches you about chemistry, biology, medicines, diets, animal behaviour, and so much more. Stick around here and we will give you help and ideas to keep you intrested.


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## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

There's two types of cycling you can do. Fishless, or with fish. The latter is considered cruel by most people... and I've heard the former doesn't take as long. Either way, you're gonna want at _least_ 2 weeks for it to complete.
Basically, the water gets established with good bacteria, that converts Ammonia to Nitrites and then that gets converted to Nitrates. As far as I can tell, all are toxic at high levels and/or prolonged exposure...but the Nitrates aren't as bad - and they can only be taken out by doing water changes (partial.. not all the water).
Here's a few of the links I like about fishless cycling...
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/flc-data.htm

And, of course, you can just Google/search "fishless cycling" (which is where I got those links from)

** Edit - I meant Nitrites into NitrAtes... I should pay attention to my letters LOL


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

great thx but do i need live plants?


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

Ive had my fish tank for over a month and i think its still interesting. Im going to breed platys, which is supposed to be pretty fun for a noob like me. I think id be more inclined to get bored with a pda than a fishtank, but a fishtank might be a hassle if your not to interested in it.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Live plants are not needed. There are many options nowadays. Plastic plants, silk plants, or live plants. Some tanks use rock formations instead of plants.


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

But plants IMO are the thing that really makes a tank beautiful. And it is natural for most tropical freshwater fish. But they do need fertilizers, how much dependinf on what plant you are getting.
If you are going to buy both male and female guppys, you will soon be crowded with babys. To avoid this you could only get male guppys.
Tiger barbs and most plecos(suckers) grow too big and messy for a 10g. 

My suggestion for your 10gallons:
5-7 male guppys
5 amano shrimps(these guys are both useful and fun!)

Or:
1 male betta
10 ruby tetras

Or:
15 ruby/neon/cardinal tetras
5 amano shrimps

But before adding fish you must cycle the tank properly. My english is way too bad to start explainig how to work that out, but you probably will have the info from someone else. Good luck with your tank!


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

I thought it would be fun to breed some guppies... so thats what i will do but I will have to get rid of some somehow... does anything eat them? I might get a larger tank in the future but thats kinda what i had my mind set on breeding some guppies.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

There are many cichlids that love to eat guppies. But just leaving the fry in the tank with the parents many of them will get eaten by the parents.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

nice..... canabalistic parents thats just wat every kid wants... now I bought this Mini Penguin BioWheel filter and the instruction booklet is crappy so.... how do I set this thing up I know basically how it goes together but after I made 30 thousand trips up and down my stairs with a jar of water from the only filtered fosset and I hit the power the heater went on the light went on but no water was going through my filter. In all the diagrams in the instruction booklet there is a tip on the snorkel shaped tube that intakes the water... but i cant find it did I get ripped? I think the tip is called a strainer.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

Nvm!!!!!! I found the strainer and figured out u had to fill the basin hope it works...


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

sry for the triple post  but... there are bubbles attached to everything in my tank I got the filter running btw and I see all these bubbles but in my friends tank there are no bubbles how do I get rid of the nasty bubbles?


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

i doubt you will get bored with them....i have had mine for 3 years or so, and i havent gotten bored with them....and i tend to get bored kind of easily  .....it is very enjoyable to breed guppies (or any livebearer for that matter) its alot of fun to watch the babies grow up....about the bubbles, i think you can get rid of them by just rubbing your hand or something up against them....i think they will disapear then....im not sure though


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Give it about 24 hours the small bubbles will go away. Just do what Lydia said. they will come back but after a day they should stop.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I think you made the right choice. That Dell Axiom will be obsolete next year, but aquariums remain good for many years.

You won't get bored. I've been a fishkeeper for 32 years, and I'm still hooked. That's not uncommon.

If you breed guppies, you won't have any trouble getting rid of them. Most petshops will buy them if they're halfway decent, and once you get good enough to produce some really good fish, you'll be able to get more for them.


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

if you really want to breed guppys, make sure you don't buy a bunch of siblings from the LFS.¨
Most guppys in the same tank in stores are siblings.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

I was reading about the guppy breeding and breeding "programs" which looked neat I guess there is finally a use for those stupid spungebob tanks. From what i understand you have a breeding tank a normal tank where or 2 tanks where male and female are seperated. and A cupple fry tanks. 0_o I worked out the math and I can afford that actually if I get some lower end tanks and dont buy another 10 gallon, Im 14 with 10 dollars a week and I had been savig for a while for that pda but now I got the fish tank I dont want it. But I dont think I should buy all those tanks yet. My parents would be like "What the heck are you doing?" But I like the Idea of Hybridising I almost did a science project on it with plants it facinates me... so eventually I will have one of these breeding "programs"

BTW what is LFS?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

LFS = local fish store

As for the guppies in the same shop all being siblings... well, that might occsionally be true in Finland, but not here in the USA. That's almost never the case here, and that's actually part of the problem. You see, with guppies, crossing siblings together results in BETTER fish, not worse ones. The main reason fish stores in the USA usually want to buy locally grown guppies is that those guppies have been raised in local water, and thusly do better in the tanks of the customers who buy them. The next reason is that those locally grown fish are sometimes better than the ones they can buy from a wholesale distributor. This isn't often the case, though, because too few hobbyists really take guppy production seriously enough to produce good fish. Unfortunately, the big fishfarms go to even less trouble...


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

I didn't quite get the part where you said that crossing siblings results better fish. Did i get you all wrong or did you really mean that by crossing siblings you could have normal, healthy fry? I agree though that usually homebreeders have the best fish, I'm actually a swordtail breeder myself.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

according to what I read they wont be "healthyer" but more a brighter color and more brillant. With better fins. Just made better the first rung in a hybridising prosedure is weak you inbreed to make it stronger its just genetically weak. 

In other news..

I got 3 danios to cycle my tank with and one is rather fat and it has a red spot on the side that no other danio has is it diseased or hurt....

A little bit later it got another red splotch... help!

there is a picture of it also the temprature of the tank was steady at 80 degrees now it has soared to 86 out of the dannios comfort zone  I turned the light off and the heater all the way down.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

lil help here my water is now at 88 I have unpluged the heater and turned off the light but what about the spots???


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## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

Well, I wasn't going to reply, since I don't quite remember everything about this...but here goes (you could always research my answer in a Google search, to get more info, too! LOL)

As far as I know, ammonia poisoning makes red spots...but I thought it was only near the gill area, and in 'veins' in the fins. Still, it might be that - especially if your tank is cycling. Ammonia is gonna be a little high, since you don't have bacteria (or enough) yet, to neutralize it. 
That's why I don't like to cycle tanks with fish in it, cuz it's mean to 'em >_<


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

The LFS store owner said he had never heard of fishless cycling >.< and I am sorry to my poor fishies   if they are in pain  but I didnt want to try anything exotic on my next tank I will try fishless cycling I plan to try to hybridise what I would call a burning charcoal guppy and it would have a black body with a fire looking head and a large fire looking tail. but I hope to get the ammonia and temperature under control it soared to 88degrees Ive got some Ammonia Chloramine Eliminator should I use that to ease the stress but i read that the ammonia is needed to cycle the tank to create the proper bacteria.

as for the poor fishy I will describe it more because I observed it more.
1. I think it is pregnant It is very big and fat 

2.The scales on its outer belly are translucently white and they are fanned out from being so big and fat. They look ready to about pop off

3. There are 2 main red splotches with little red dots on one side of the fish. I doubt it is an ulcer because its not an open wound. its more of a coloration of the scales

4. the fish is not very active it does move about the tank quickly accasionally but it mostly bobs at the top of the water with the bubbles from my filter bumping her arround. 

5. She always seems to be moving her mouth open and closed


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

I have just red that zebra danios are not livebearers :| and now notice that if they are not live bearers then why is she so fat is it eggs or what?


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## UgLy_eLf (Feb 26, 2005)

She's probably inactive because its so freakin' hot in your tank, check out the temps again, I'd let it fall to about 78 for danio's. The spots I dont know much about, I did notice something like that on my fish too but it was because they were injured by my pleco, he's rather vicious when feeding.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

If I do a replace water thing with some cold water from a filtered tap would that be ok? I really want it cooled down


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## Vivid-Dawn (Jan 18, 2005)

Once again, to warn ya, I'm not an expert (just started fish keeping myself in January), but from what I do know...

If the fish is fat, and the scales are protruding, that's Dropsy - they get that, when they're sick.

I dunno about the red spots, other than it could be the ammonia poisoning

Fish always move their mouths. They take in the water, that way, and it goes into their gill area and absorbs the oxygen and then the rest of the 'bad' water flows out their gills.


On opinion, though.. maybe your Danio was already sick. I've heard they're sturdy enough to handle a cycling, and that's one fish that most people use if they want to do a fish-done cycle.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

yeah if your fish is bulging and the scales look like they're popping off it sounds like dropsy to me. If i were you id get rid of it now incase it causes problems in the future. If it is dropsy, its nearly impossible to cure it.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

She sadly passed away while I was at school and I did reasearch during my study hall in school and found it to be dropsy poor fish but i think I should get a refund PetsMart sold me a sick fish! do I need the fish to get a refund? Or can I say it died? or should I just pay another 99 cents. Or is it possible to cycle the tank with only 2 fish? 



how long does a tank take to cycle my take is 3 days old and getting cloudy  or


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

Propably you can only blame yourself, that is what cycling wiht fish do  
remeber to change the water often so the other two survive from the cycle.


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

Osteo is being a bit harsh, but I'm afraid she's right. Unless you use lots and lots of plants (especially floating ones) to absorb excess ammonia while your tank is cycling, it's highly likely that you will lose fish during a cycle... It's true that that fish might have been not quite as healthy as the others, but if they had been put into a mature tank, there's a good chance that the fish would have recovered from whatever was bothering it.


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## Tocs1001 (Apr 9, 2005)

The fish had a red mark when I took it home and it just got worse from there it was already sick when I got it!

but owell it was only 99cents and the other fish never sleep it seems like they are chasing eachother around constantly! I am waiting to see one sleep out of curiosity.


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

Next time when you buy fish remember to pick the most healthy and energetic ones. If the fish is already sick when you buy it, the stress will make the disease worse.


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## fishboy (Feb 26, 2005)

don't try to wate for them to sleep. only time i did that was when i stayed up till 2 am on a coffee craze . When i saw them the just floated around fins not moving. my guppy slept and wedged itself between the glass and the heater(so the filter current won't bother it) and my molly and platy just floated with my tetras. fish sleepign is weird mostly with guppies mine has even buried himself in the gravel so the current wouldn't bother him


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## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

Red streaks on body may have been rust, a fungal infection. With rust and dropsy and a new tank it didn't have a chance. Good luck, I've just gotten past my first cloudy water ammonia spike and it's been clear ever since (on day 6). Fishy still has ick though...


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