# My biotope



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I am going to start a Colombian biotope. Now before you say that is too easy, hear me out. The biotope will be both terrestrial and aquatic. Hopefully I will be able to find both terrestrial and aquatic plants from this region. I will be getting a small amphibian (possibly a dart frog) to live on the terrestrial side, and some small fish (neon tetras I am thinking) for the aquatic side. I have already put a acryllic separator in the tank to keep the water on one side and the dirt on the other. 

The separator goes halfway up the tank, and I will either fill the terrestrial side up to that halfway line with dirt, or I will just cover the bottom with dirt and have plants and branches that go up and over the water. 

I will post pictures when it is done. Also, any suggestions are very welcome. I really need help with the plants, both aquatic and terrestrial.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

how big will this tank be? Not that I can be of much help, but I am curious LOL


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Poison dart frogs are very hard to take care of, and they are actually poisonous. Make sure your ready for them or else your going to be wasting a lot of money.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Tallonebball said:


> Poison dart frogs are very hard to take care of, and they are actually poisonous. Make sure your ready for them or else your going to be wasting a lot of money.


Actually dart frogs are not poisonous in captivity. Dart frogs get their toxins from what they eat. Also, you are not supposed to hold any frog anyway, so it doesn't matter. The salt and oils from your skin, get in their semi-permeable skin, and it causes irritation.

I have the aquatic side all set up and it is ready for fish. I still need to find some tropical South American plants for the terrestrial side, that I can buy in the USA. Anyone got any ideas?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Aww bml, I am hurt! You never said tank size. Sure sure, just ignore me. See how you are?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> Central and south America has also been a very productive area for the house plant collector. In particular, most of the true cacti come from the desert regions, but some epiphytic species, such as the Christmas cactus are found in the jungles. The very popular Bromeliads are also restricted to south America, such as Billbergia and Tillandsia. The best known aroids are from this regions as well, including Dieffenbachia and Philodendron.


 http://www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/houseplant/origin/index.html I googled "S. american house plant" and got this. dieffenbachia and philodendron and bromeliads are common house plants easily found at home and garden centers.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

I know all of that about dart frogs bml haha I have kept them before, why are you trying to teach me? lol I have had most frogs.
My point is that a lot of poison dart frog are wild caught, maybe you found a breeder, and when they are wild caught, they are poisonous. 
They also eat really small crickets and other really small bugs so you have to be prepared for that.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Oh I didn't know you had frogs before, Tall. I do know they might be poisonous when I first get them, so I am prepared for that. I also know that most frogs eat crickets and wax worms and lice. I can handle live food 

Thanks for the link emc7

Ob, now I'll just keep you waiting to see 

I did buy the fish today though!


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Although I am still looking for plants, the tank is mostly set up for the frog. However, I am having a new issue. The humidity from the aquarium (80% in the dry areas) is causing the glass to fog, but only on the front pane of glass. There is only a very little amount of fog on the other panes. The fog is right above the aquarium, and next to the aquarium, where the terrarium is. Here is a picture, the gray area is fog.










Anyone got any idea what I can do about this. A vivarium does no good if you can't see into it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

polyethtyleneglycol? or is it polypropylene glycol. The stuff they sell in the mall to keep you glasses and windshield from fogging up. High molecular weight, non-toxic (often used in drugs and cosmetics). The trick is getting the molecular weight/viscosity right. Too thick and its like looking thru Vaseline, too thin and its useless.

Or you could try machines. A computer fan aimed at the glass or a little windshield wiper.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

So like the antifog RainX? I might actually have some of that. 

Also, I have chosen bell peppers to be my plant. I need some tree branches for the frog to climb on though. I got to see if I can find something that will work for that.


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## Dragonbeards (Dec 14, 2008)

bml, a tip- Poison darts don't come across big bodies of water in the wild where they live, and in fact could drown in the set-up you have planned. I would approch with extreme caution when chosing a frog (or for that matter any amphib) to go in your tank. Not all can swim .

That being said, your project sounds cool, and I look forward to seeing it once its completed.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Yes I have heard the same thing. What you need to do is build a pile of rocks in one corner so the frogs have a way to climb out if they fall in. There are several websites that suggest that for people with pools of water in their vivariums.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Well I got a Map Treefrog yesterday. They live near water in the wild, so they have webbed back legs and can swim. He is a small frog, so he doesn't need a huge tank, and he wont eat my fish, hopefully. He is found in Northern South America so he is perfect for what I wanted to do. Here is a picture of him. Sorry, it may be a bit big for some people's computers. 










I am at work at the moment so I dont have a pic of the whole tank. 

This morning I woke up and couldn't see him. I thought maybe he found a way out of his new habitat. Turns out he buried himself in the moss, probably to keep moist.


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## Dragonbeards (Dec 14, 2008)

Aw, he's cute. What fish you going to have with him?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

ribbit ribbit


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

emc7 said:


> Or you could try machines. A computer fan aimed at the glass or a little windshield wiper.


I'm sorry but I just noticed this. EMC I might die of laughter. I can see poor bml out there trying to build a motor for the little windshield wiper LOL

In terms of the fog I am guessing that the top is enclosed. Give it more air space and it will not be as foggy. Find a way to leave it open without letting the frog free. Maybe some kind of mesh would work. Or you can start building that motor


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

What makes you think that building a windshield wiper would be difficult? 

Anyway I just let it have a bit more ventalation and it cleared up. Turns out my hygrometer was off. I got a digital one and it says the humidity is 90% and it's not foggy.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Not difficult... funny  Think about it.. a fish tank with a windshield wiper!

It might just be me. Visualizations get me.


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## Plecostomus (Jul 31, 2006)

You could have some cool smaller carnivorous plants in your biotype. Sun-pitcher plants(Heliamphora Minor) come from Venezuela, and they are great for terrariums. I doubt the frogs would be eaten by them.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2009)

Obsidian, watch the movie Flash of Genius. Ford stole the intermittent wind shield wiper from robert kearns, and its a movie about him and his fight with ford. Anyway, he has a wind shield wiper on a fish tank filled with water for his testing 

You can get reptile mesh tops that lock onto the tank and pet stores to keep it open and your froggy in place.

I too have heard that poison dart frogs get their poison from what they eat, but point being that even if you get a wild caught frog, wouldn't he only be poisonous for a short period of time after he is caught? Or maybe the poison takes a long time to get out of their system?


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

The frog isn't escaping any time soon. I don't need to worry about that.

And yes dart frogs do get their poison from their food, so after a while they would loose it, however, they would most likely still have it when you bought it, if they were wild caught.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2009)

Hmm. Well the way they would make poisoned tip arrows is just to rub the arrow head on the skin of the frog, i think. Is this true?
If that is the case, to take a safety measure (if you didn't know if it was wild caught or not), you could rub something on it's skin to help the process of getting the poison off.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

First of all, my frog isnt a dart frog.

Secondly, a frog's skin is permeable, meaning that it can absorb what touches it. Rubbing stuff on pet frogs would not be a good idea. They could absorb something bad, or you could dry them out or scratch them. Since it is a good idea to refrain from holding a frog in general, it would be better to just let the poison go away naturally.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2009)

Ah. we'll i've never had a frog before haha. Good luck on the biotope!


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Here is the picture for those who are interested.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2009)

thats really neat bml


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Coolness...


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Wait wait wait, hold the frickin' phone. You guys mean to tell me that I can use anti-fog wipes such as RainX to cure the fogging issues? You mean I've been putting up with this for the past 2 winters when there is in fact something I can do about it? That's great! 
bmlbytes, welcome to the club of the divided tanks  Here's my crabitat
http://picasaweb.google.com/fishbon3/Crabitat

Because the temperature difference between the room and the inside of the tank is anywhere from 10 to 20 degrees during the winter, I have to put up with a fair amount of fogging. Actually, it is more like water beading up on the sides of the tank than fogging. The thought of using RainX or any other wipe makes me nervous because those beads of water would run back down into the water column and the substrate.
Are you guys 100% sure this stuff is non-toxic?


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I read that you shouldnt use it in a frog tank because the frogs skin is permeable and can absorb the chemicals.

For reptiles it should be ok though.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

I "ain't got" reptiles, I have fiddler and hermit crabs  Interesting idea but I'll stay away from treating the glass in any way, shape or form unless the stuff is inert/non-toxic. Temperature difference and high humidity is pretty much a guaranteed fogfest


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Well ok, crabs sound like they would be fine. I would research it yourself, but I don't think it would hurt crabs. 

I wouldn't put even non-toxic chemicals in my tank with the frog. You never know what would happen if it got in his skin.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2009)

Why would crags be okay if fish wouldn't? They have both gills and lungs.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Crabs have long been known to be invincible. You must have missed the memo.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2009)

I've kept several types of crabs, including blue crabs, fiddler, etc. They aren't invincible lol/


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

I am sure they faked being sick just so your other fish wouldn't feel like complete sissies.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

We are talking about the dry part of the vivarium aren't we? So gills has nothing to do with it. The frogs have skin that absorb stuff and they like to stick to the walls, so chemicals are a bad idea. 

Also we werent talking about fish.

And there was a memo they sent out saying that crabs are now invincible.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Here are more pics of the frog:


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Cute little guy.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Yeah, but he is sneaky. He waits until I go to bed to climb around. Even if I turn the lights off he still does it.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Just leave a camera in there overnight and watch the playback in the morning. ;D


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

High molecular weight polyethylene glycol is pretty safe. But all those proprietary formulations? no idea. I think rain-X is a silicone but it also has ethanol and isopropanol (from the MSDS). Have to ask the Shedd what they use. I'd probably just park a squeegee near the tank and use it when I wanted to look in.


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