# Extremely Frustrated!!! Fishless cycling



## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Okay this doesn't make any sense.

My Ammonia was 0, Nitrite 0, and Nitrate 25 after cycling for a month with ammonia chloride

Did a major water change about 70% using pretreated conditioned water today and was about to go get some fish finally

2 hours later I did a test and my Nitrites have spiked to 1-2 PPM

What the heck...this thing has been cycling for over a month and I was sure it was complete...almost ready to give up 

Help Please !!!


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

I'm not sure what test kit you're using, but I know when I did my fishless cycle I was getting false negatives on the nitrites when they were off the charts high. I would test it and get a reading of 0 or almost 0 on nitrites, then do a water change and the nitrites were suddenly 2ppm or so. I use the API freshwater master test kit.


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

I'm using American Pharmaceuticals kit


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

pinetree said:


> I'm not sure what test kit you're using, but I know when I did my fishless cycle I was getting false negatives on the nitrites when they were off the charts high. I would test it and get a reading of 0 or almost 0 on nitrites, then do a water change and the nitrites were suddenly 2ppm or so. I use the API freshwater master test kit.


Did you use the API when you were getting the false readings, or is that what you use now?


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

Just keep up on water changes and if you're that worried throw in a couple plants.


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Blue Cray said:


> Just keep up on water changes and if you're that worried throw in a couple plants.


But my results are after my 75% water change?

If I keep changing the water, I'm not sure if the cycle will ever complete itself


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

I used the API kit when I was getting the false readings. I don't think water changes will hurt the cycle. The majority of the bacteria lives in the filter media, not in the water itself.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Test your tap water for ammonia both before and after dechlor. A lot of tap water has a few ppm of chloramine and it goes to ammonia after dechlor (if your water conditioner "detoxifies" ammonia, it won't show up on an ammonia test, but will still go to nitrite). Even 4 ppm of ammonia on a 10% change is only .4 and will disappear, but with a 75% you'd still have 1 ppm. We speak of cycled/not cycled as a binary thing. But a tank is only as "cycled" as the amount of "food" it has been getting. If you feed it too much ammonia, you kill the bacteria, but if you don't feed it, it will starve and force you to start over. If the nitrite goes away within a few hours, you are close to being "completely cycled". When you've done, any ammonia you add (up the amount you've been adding) should turn almost instantly to nitrate. 

I agree that you should get a "second opinion" test result. Sometimes you mess up the test kit or just misread it because of colored water. But if you add a little ammonia and the nitrite goes up further, you know you are only "half-cycled" and it might be time to push things along with a "seed" of filter media from a cycled tank or some Stability.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

is this the tank with no substrate? your gonna have a hard time building a good bacteria base with no substrate, and doing a 70% water change probably wiped out whatever bacterial base you had.
Try to keep the water changes at 20 percent when you do them and you could add some cheap danios to help the cycle along if you like


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

is this the tank with no substrate? your gonna have a hard time building a good bacteria base with no substrate, and doing a 70% water change probably wiped out whatever bacterial base you had.
Try to keep the water changes at 20 percent when you do them and you could add some cheap danios to help the cycle along if you like


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the tips, 

Tallonebball,

Yep it's the one with minimal substrate..I do have some sand up front near the glass but it's only about an 1/8 of the overalll bottom, the rest is the ceramic tile and I also have a Biowheel as part of my Magnum HOT 250 and a Hydro Sponge III in the tank to compensate and thought that would be enough...hmmmm

I'll check tomorrow and see


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

That probably is enough once its all cycled, its just going to be a little fragile. Once the filter is good and seeded though you'll probably be just fine.


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Thank you much 

I completely overlooked the aesthetic to biological function I created when only laying a small amount of substrate...funny how I completely overlooked the obvious

Anyways I added a lot more substrate to the front and now I'd say about half the tile is covered while still giving the look I was going after with the tile..

Appreciate the help...I think now if I just leave it alone and stop tinkering with it the bacteria should start to take hold again


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

if u dont mind me askin why are u doin such a massive water change?


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Eluviet said:


> if u dont mind me askin why are u doin such a massive water change?


It's my first attempt at a fish less cycle and all of the info I've read says to do a 70-85% change at the end of the cycle, to remove Nitrates they all say, but mine was never over 20 on the NO3 so maybe I didn't have enough of the Nitrate making bacteria established yet...also my water was still cloudy and I thought if most of the bacteria were established in the filter media that changing the water wouldn't impact the nitrogen process and also clear up the water...live and learn I guess

well, I think after having done these large changes at the end and both times getting bit, I think I'll stick with some small changes and let the water clean up over time rather than in one large change

I also added more substrate to hopefully better lock in the bacteria

Time will tell..

On another note, I just got back from a Hibachi/Sushi restaurant and they had 5, 180 gallon tanks all CRYSTAL clear....now I'm depressed just thinking about my hazy uncycled tank :sad:


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Okay here's some shots of the current setup

note the extra substrate in front and the hydro sponge with the bio filter wheel and HOB filter

Latest readings...Ammonia .5, NO2 1, NO3 8, KH 6, PH 7.5, Temp 86, Aeration and powerhead providing bubbles

Looks like I am rebooting the cycle from somewhere in the middle, some quantities of both bacteria present but not enough to convert the NH3 or the NO2 yet..


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## chughes737 (May 12, 2010)

Here's what the old version was with less substrate and no sponge or "home" for the little guys


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## Guest (May 19, 2010)

thb <40 ppm NO3 is fine. i would be worried if your NO3 is hitting the 100ppm mark. my suggestion would be to add some more decor and cut back on the water changes.


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