# Angelfish Stress :-(



## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

I have a angel that I've had approximately 3 weeks now who has been doing great, always interacting with me & just always making me laugh & smile. He(I use this loosely since I dont know) has now for a whole day been kinda chilling out in a corner. He is a normal silver angel & his stripes last night & today were so dark it looked black. I waited a while & even at feeding time he wasnt there waiting with his mouth open for me to drop a savory bite for him. Now he's swimming around a little bit but he's not acting like himself. I was wondering if thier stripes get dark when their stressed & what could be causing his stress ? All the fish in his tank have lived there since day one with him, & all that's in there is 2 other angels who don't bully him, 4 zebra danios, a coryfish, & a few guppies. I do 25% water changes weekly, which tomorrow will be the next scheduled day, I test ph & ammonia & all that weekly & if it's to high or low I work on fixing it. Nothing has happened that I kn ow of to make him stressed so can someone tell me what could be stressing him & if the darker stripe color is a indication of stress ? 
Sorry for such a long post !! I love my angels & I am gonna be upset until I know he's better. The one I am writing about is my favorite. 
Thanks !!


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

I would just give him time. As long as the water conditions are to his liking, and he's feeding OK, then I wouldn't worry about it. My angelfish are always changing their colors to suit their surroundings. The problem with white and koi angels though are that you can't tell if they're changing their color pigments or not.


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## BlackArchFish (Apr 29, 2005)

What size tank is this?


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

Its a 29g high tank & he hasn't been eating.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2006)

He could be a victim of bullying at night time since he could be smaller than the other two angels so they could be bullying him. I would get 1 more but before adding him remove all the angels then re arrange the tank and introduce all the angels at once to reduce territory issues. If he doesn't become active after adding the 4th angel then he could be depressed or he could be going on a hunger strike and one way to fix this is to try different foods with him till he finds something he likes. Live foods seem to help with this alot.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2006)

I think 3 angels in a 29g is cramped. I would only keep one in that size tank.

Zebra danios are nippy so make sure they aren't going after its fins. It could be the other angels. I have one bigger angel in my 55g and I added 2 smaller ones. The big one doesn't like the smaller ones getting close to her and she'll chase them away. It could be that the older 2 angels aren't being very nice to the new guy. And the new guy doesn't have much room to hide.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2006)

I don't think 3 in a 29g is cramped espically since its a 29g high. Espically since if abnrmlisme gets a 4th angel a pair will be able to form and then abnrmlisme will be able to remove the 2 that didn't pair up.


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

I may be interpretting this wrong, if so disregard.

You have had the fish for 3 weeks and got all the fish at the same time. So the tank has been set up with fish for 3 weeks?

Again, if you did a fishless cycle or used BioSpira disregard...

You may be in the middle of the development of the biological cycle. It may be that you are getting past the ammonia phase and into the nitrite phase which can be very hard on the fish.

If you have ammonia or nitrite reading above ZERO, testing the water & changing 25% of the water once a week is not going to be enough. Angelfish are not a great fish to have in a tank while it is cycling. A fish like a zebra is quite tough and it takes a lot to make them have obvious distress, guppies less so, angels... they are pretty expressive, letting you know when things aren't to their liking.

I don't know what this idea about a 4th angel is all about. Having 4 doesn't cause a pair to form. We don't even know the size of the fish, the distressed one could be dime size and the 2 larger ones quarter size. Unless mature fish were purchased they wouldn't be interested in pairing up anyways, pairs don't form without the intent to spawn which can't happen with reproductively immature fish.

violet


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

abnrmlisme said:


> Its a 29g high tank & he hasn't been eating.


29g? Thanks much too small for 3 mature angels.

Very good post Violet. I would follow this advice.


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

Just so everyone knows, the 2 healthy angels are quarter size & the sick one is about a half dollar size. The tank is plenty big for them right now especially being high. As they grow I plan on moving them to a more spacey tank suited for their size. 

I did a nitrate reading tonight & it is : o ppm
Also today when I came home I noticed something hanging near where he goes potty that was long, white & stringy looking. I believe this is a worm ? I bought something to treat it but it sounds like it could be hard on my other fish especially since I have a corycat in there. Can someone help me on this ? 

I am new to the fish hobby & learning as much as I can as I go along. I am posting on 3-4 forum boards a day trying to find out how to take great care of my fish.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

abnrmlisme said:


> My nitrate is o ppm


What about your nitrite and ammonia? When cycling a tank, nitrate is usually low anyway. Please keep an eye on nitrite, this is the most important one at this stage.


> Also today when I came home I noticed something hanging near where he goes potty that was long, white & stringy looking. I believe this is a worm ?


I think you'll find it's a piece of poo. You'll be supprised how long a fishes poo can be. 


> I am posting on 3-4 forum boards a day trying to find out how to take great care of my fish.


This one's all you need.

Anymore questions, please ask.


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

I meant the nitrite and the ammonia is at the .5-1ppm level I've seen his poop before and it was a light light brown color and this was real white & stringy. could that still be poo ?


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

abnrmlisme said:


> I meant the nitrite and the ammonia is at the .5-1ppm level I've seen his poop before and it was a light light brown color and this was real white & stringy. could that still be poo ?


....................yes


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

Sorry double post


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

abnrmlisme said:


> I meant the nitrite and the ammonia is at the .5-1ppm level I've seen his poop before and it was a light light brown color and this was real white & stringy. could that still be poo ?


I have a black moor that would poop the rainbow! Just recently i saw a piece at least 6 inches long hanging from his cute little tush....

But generally fish's poop color should be the same as the food you feed them, but sometimes it has different colors e.x black brown white gray....


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

The fish's waste will not look normal if it is not eating much.

If you have ammonia and no nitrites you may be fairly early in the development of beneficial bacteria. It still sounds to me like the stress is at least partially water chemistry related. When the readings are ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates *some*, then you will have a cycled and healthier tank. Until then I really think you need to do a lot more water changes to dilute the ammonia (and nitrites when they appear).

The longer the fish is in stress the more likely you are to ultimately lose it or the longer it will take to recover.

If you look at my other posts, most will advocate waterchanges for one reason or another. Fish live and *breathe* in water, the same water their waste goes into. In nature the ratio of water to fish is huge. In the conditions we supply it is small and refreshed only when WE do it for them. Moderate waterchanges are harmless, doesn't take long and has no side effects, no warning against "loaches and scaleless catfish" or "snails & invertibrates".

violet


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

Violet:
I dont have a problem with waterchanges. Like I said this is all new to me. If I have to do more frequent water changes & up the percentage I will. Right now I do 25% weekly without skipping a beat. Also give me tips on changing the water. So far when I change the water I just add the dechlorinator & the aquarium salt. Should I suction through all the gravel or parts of or ???


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

I was reading someone elses post on another forum & they said his behavior & poop could be Hex.


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## northfacehiker (May 31, 2006)

abnrmlisme said:


> So far when I change the water I just add the dechlorinator & the aquarium salt.


Why would you be adding aquarium salt? I don't believe any of your fish to be brackish?


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## violet (Mar 17, 2006)

While the beneficial bacteria are establishing themselves doing more waterchanges keeps the toxin levels down. Once the tank is really established, 25% each week is great!

First you need to be sure that your water and dechlorinator are a good match. Different towns may use different chems. Some use straight chlorine, more towns are switching to chloramine which is a very stable combination of both chlorine and ammonia. If the dechlorinator only handles chlorine it may break the bond and neutralize the chlorine but leaves behind one of the exact things you are trying to get rid of! Ammonia! You can just make sure you use a product which takes care of chlorine, chloramine & heavy metals (I use Prime) but checking with your local water department isn't a bad idea. I got a copy of both the primary and secondary contaminates. Boring reading but at least I had the info handy for future questions I ended up having.

Water straight from the tap can have an unnatural balance of gasses, mine has almost no CO2. If I test the water immediately it has a silly high pH. If I let the water sit the pH goes down as the CO2 is taken into the water and a normal balance happens. Every night I fill a big barrel with cold water and usually toss a heater and mini water pump in. By the next day the water is about the right temp and the pH is the TRUE ph, not 9.something. You could just get a new clean 5G bucket and refill it after you do a waterchange. By the time you do the next waterchange, you have water ready to go.

Salt, how much? I don't use salt at all unless treating for a specific condition. Small amounts may do no harm but there are a few fish which do not tolerate it well. Because I don't use salt, the list of fish which should have no salt isn't in the front of my mind.

Vacuuming the gravel lightly surely won't hurt. I have one 29g and if I completely vacuum 100% of the gravel until it is super clean the tank is almost empty of water when I am done LOL! Different areas each time or lightly all over will both work. The idea is removing solid waste which will decay and add to the amount of ammonia the bacteria have to handle. If you vacuum until 20%-25% of the water is gone that is PLENTY.

The ammonia in the water may not be the whole problem. But eliminating water quality issues can help you cut down on the possible causes of your fishie's problem. It may have an internal parasite or any number of different ailments. But as long as the water quality isn't very good we are all guessing

I have probably a couple of dozen angel fish, some little some big. A couple of months ago one died in real nice clean water and I never figured out what was wrong. Not the water, no other fish were sick, the fish just looked upset one day and was gone a coule of days later. It happens and without a necropsy you would never know why. I hope that doesn't happen to your fish.

Did that help?

violet


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

northfacehiker said:


> Why would you be adding aquarium salt? I don't believe any of your fish to be brackish?


Its the stuff you buy at the store for water changes & has electrolytes in it, can be used for stress etc etc It looks like crystals when you pour it out.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Like most cichlids, angels don't mind salt, but they don't need it.


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

For some reason I was told to use the aquarium salt with every water change. So I guess I dont need it ay ?


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

Update:
The angel died yesterday.  I think at the point that he got to there really was nothing I could do. I tried all I could. 

RIP: Shimmer We miss you !!


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## pureplecs (Jan 25, 2006)

abnrmlisme,

I am sorry to hear of your loss. Violet here has given you some EXTREMELY good advice in regards to water conditions and all that (I have 35+ tanks). Also something you may consider while your tank is still going through it's cycle is to add a product called Ammo-lock to NEUTRALIZE the amonia so it is not damging or stressful to the fish. There are other products out there besides Ammo-lock so if you pick up a different one, just be sure that it says that it NEUTRALIZES the amonia and not gets rid of it. If you put a product that gets rid of it you are inhibiting your cycle from completing where as if it is neutralized it becomes no danger to the fish but allows the cycle to continue. OR... you could get a product called "New Improved Cycle" or "Biospira" if your LFS carries it which will significantly speed up your cycle process by introducing the beneficial bacteria to your tank. (Once you see a level of 0 Amonia, 0 nitrItes but a leve of nitrAte you know your cycle is completing). If you are up for some reading here is a good article about the "cycle"...
http://www.fishforever.co.uk/cycling.html (there's a lot of good articles out there, this is just one...)

I hope this helps and GOOD LUCK with the rest of your fish. You may find that you need to move one more angel out once they start getting a little bigger if they do not pair up.


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## abnrmlisme (May 29, 2006)

The angel died friday even after all my effort to keep him alive. I think it could have been from a bad batch & the tank not being cycled correctly probaly added onto what was wrong. I bought him with another & that one died after a week & now this one. 
The other 2 were from another store, same day but are doing great. I hope I can keep these 2 alive.


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