# Most Common FW Fish Illnesses and medications/treatments...



## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

Hello, i apologize if these questions have already been answered in another thread (if so please point it out to me, appreciate it) but im going hunting for fish medication just to be prepared, could someone please mention the most common freshwater fish illnesses (E.g. Parasites, Ich etc) and also suggest the best medication/ remedy/ treatments for those sicknesses? I would really appreciate it. If a link could be provided to a site that has a brief of the same, that would help too. Thanks in advance!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Uh, oh, sounds like someone is trying to keep fish without owning any books on the subject. Any good book will have an entire chapter devoted to your question.

Ick, fungus, bacterial infection, internal gut parasites, & flukes are your most common problems.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> Uh, oh, sounds like someone is trying to keep fish without owning any books on the subject. Any good book will have an entire chapter devoted to your question.
> 
> Ick, fungus, bacterial infection, internal gut parasites, & flukes are your most common problems.


Nope, no booked yet, because theres a severe contradiction as to what books to buy, could you recommend some? Just need to know where to start? Thanks!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

get company names of those who make fish medications. They all have disease info on their websites and tell you how to treat them. The big trick is actually knowing what the fish have.
Do a google search for fish meds and you will get some good results.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> get company names of those who make fish medications. They all have disease info on their websites and tell you how to treat them. The big trick is actually knowing what the fish have.
> Do a google search for fish meds and you will get some good results.


Sounds good, am currently researching Ich treatments, does anyone have an idea about which plan of action is better with ICH: 1) The hot water and salt treatment, gradually increasing temperatures to 82-85F and adding Aquarium salt. 2) Medications which seem to have adverse effects on fish? Also how effective is a UV Sterilizer for this purpose? Any help would be appreciated.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> Uh, oh, sounds like someone is trying to keep fish without owning any books on the subject. Any good book will have an entire chapter devoted to your question.
> 
> Ick, fungus, bacterial infection, internal gut parasites, & flukes are your most common problems.


Hello, id like to address Ick first, im sure youve faced Ick issues several times, what have you dont to effectively eradicate the same? Please let me know, thanks a million.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I use melafix primafix combo for when i dont know what my fish have, if it doesn't go away I try to zero in on what it is and treat accordingly, stronger bacteria/fungi require more expensive and effective medication


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

e048 said:


> I use melafix primafix combo for when i dont know what my fish have, if it doesn't go away I try to zero in on what it is and treat accordingly, stronger bacteria/fungi require more expensive and effective medication


I do always trust API Products so ill try that out. Also, someone recommended Chloromycitin for a basic cure medicine, now i dont trust this someone because perhaps she tried to sell me this cause she had it in stock and didnt have anything else. 

If anyones heard anything about Chloromycitin please let me know, thanks.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

The thing about ick treatment is that it works differently for different groups of fish. Scaled vs scaleless is the main division to worry about. Scaled fish are more resistant to chemicals and are better treated with them, while scaleless fish do better with the salt treatment. That's assuming you have one of the ick species that salt will kill, of course. Some of the icks don't mind salt at all.

For most fish, formalin/malachite green solutions work well for eliminating ick. Copper based meds are a second choice, and quinines are a third.
As for raising the temperature... don't. Most modern fish meds are formulated to work at normal tank temps nowadays. It takes a temp of 94F to kill ick directly, and anything less than that only makes it multiply and spread faster. It's usually not such a great idea to raise the temp that high, though, is it?


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> The thing about ick treatment is that it works differently for different groups of fish. Scaled vs scaleless is the main division to worry about. Scaled fish are more resistant to chemicals and are better treated with them, while scaleless fish do better with the salt treatment. That's assuming you have one of the ick species that salt will kill, of course. Some of the icks don't mind salt at all.
> 
> For most fish, formalin/malachite green solutions work well for eliminating ick. Copper based meds are a second choice, and quinines are a third.
> As for raising the temperature... don't. Most modern fish meds are formulated to work at normal tank temps nowadays. It takes a temp of 94F to kill ick directly, and anything less than that only makes it multiply and spread faster. It's usually not such a great idea to raise the temp that high, though, is it?


This is exactly what i meant when i said contradictory information "out there". Im so glad you warned me against hot water treatments before i took the plunge. Is this what you recommend? : http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4745

Thanks in advance!


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

The API brand is safe for scaleless fish, ive used it on loaches before with 90% success


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

e048 said:


> The API brand is safe for scaleless fish, ive used it on loaches before with 90% success


Thanks! Theyre surely a preference. Im convinced i should stick to them.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

theyre also cheap and can treat insane amounts of water also it doesn't chage your water parameters, one bottle treats around 200 gallons for 5 days. Compared to some other disease specific medications that cost upwards of $15-25 and only treat half your aquarium. The API plant extracts also boost your healthy fish's immune system, I use it even when none of my fish are sick, guppy, molly, platy, etc fry have higher survival ratings when I use this in their tanks.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Yes, that's pretty good stuff. Kordon used to make the very best stuff you could get, but they changed the formula and now it's only as good as the others. Still worth using, though.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

Seems to be really effective and efficient, when buying my first set what would you guys recommend i get medication for? Ich is probably one of the most common, what else should i be prepared for?


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> Yes, that's pretty good stuff. Kordon used to make the very best stuff you could get, but they changed the formula and now it's only as good as the others. Still worth using, though.


I read on a site that Malachite kills scaleless fish, that isnt true right? Just a little nervous, you have used that with several scaleless fish correct? Please let me know, thanks so much.

P.S. Please bear with me if anything i say sounds a tad ignorant, fact is i am ignorant when it comes to fish as of this moment but am devoting a lot of time to learn.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Hmmm... actually, it occasionally is true. Best to do with one of the milder methods. There are ickmeds available made especially for scaleless fish.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> Hmmm... actually, it occasionally is true. Best to do with one of the milder methods. There are ickmeds available made especially for scaleless fish.


Thanks for the warning, any names? Again, why im asking you to help (as compared to me doing the research) is due to all the contradiction out there, theres nothing better than actual hands on experience. Appreciate it immensely.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

HAS anyone used the following product, manufacturer description actually says "Safer than other medications for Scaleless fish" What do i make of it? Let me know please.

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4734

(Working too hard for the fishes..forgot to add link earlier)


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That's the one I mentioned earlier. It used to be the best stuff on the market, so naturally they had to go and ruin it with a formula change. Don't buy it. It's junk.
Hmmm.. on second thought, it's weakness makes it good for scaleless fish. Get some. Also look for some Ick-Guard 2, which is made for scaleless fish.
Treating scaleless fish is a real pain, honestly. If you have a lot of room, there is a completely drug-free method which is completely safe for anything. It is labor-intensive, though. What you do is set up a few pans of water and move the fish from the first one to the next one each day. Clean out each used pan and set it back up for use a few days later when it comes back up in rotation. 
Every day, parasite spores will drop off of the fish, destined to hatch the next day. However, you'll have removed the fish by then, so after a couple of weeks the fish will be completely stripped of all external ciliated parasites.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> That's the one I mentioned earlier. It used to be the best stuff on the market, so naturally they had to go and ruin it with a formula change. Don't buy it. It's junk.
> Hmmm.. on second thought, it's weakness makes it good for scaleless fish. Get some. Also look for some Ick-Guard 2, which is made for scaleless fish.
> Treating scaleless fish is a real pain, honestly. If you have a lot of room, there is a completely drug-free method which is completely safe for anything. It is labor-intensive, though. What you do is set up a few pans of water and move the fish from the first one to the next one each day. Clean out each used pan and set it back up for use a few days later when it comes back up in rotation.
> Every day, parasite spores will drop off of the fish, destined to hatch the next day. However, you'll have removed the fish by then, so after a couple of weeks the fish will be completely stripped of all external ciliated parasites.


Hey, is this the one you mean? : http://www.amazon.com/Ick-Guard-Ii-...2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1295211329&sr=8-2

Ok ill try it out, they wont die due to stress though right and how long would it typically take to get rid of those parasites? How big do these pans need to be? I dont mind doing it if its the best way to treat scaleless fish.

Also, another question for you: How often should i change my water and how much? Theres just a WHOLE load of contradiction on this topic, what have you done over the ages?

Thanks a zillion for your help.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

25% weekly when everything in the tank is healthy, water parameters are stable.
it also depends on the load of fish you have, the type of fish, how much you feed , water temperature and so on.
For example I have 1 angel fish and 3 cories in a tank and i only change the water every 2 weeks.
In another tank I have guppies and a pleco and I change water every week because they are all super poopers.
My betta tank gets alternate weeks becuase there is only 2 fish that hardly poop in it but my other small tank gets done weekly or sometimes twice because it has fry in it.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

They only need to be big enough for the fish to be able to breathe and swim comfortably, and they should have LIDS on them to keep them from jumping out onto the floor.

Yes, that's Ick Guard 2, which is pretty good stuff for scaleless fish.

As for water changes, mousey already gave you the answer---> it depends. If you like to make large volume changes of 35% or so, then do them often to prevent your tank water from drifting chemically too far from your new water. This prevents the shock of the new water being too different. small changes should also be done often, simply because they don't do very much at a time. If you make a lot of small water changes, once or twice a week, you will eventually still need to make an occasional large one every three or four months.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> 25% weekly when everything in the tank is healthy, water parameters are stable.
> it also depends on the load of fish you have, the type of fish, how much you feed , water temperature and so on.
> For example I have 1 angel fish and 3 cories in a tank and i only change the water every 2 weeks.
> In another tank I have guppies and a pleco and I change water every week because they are all super poopers.
> My betta tank gets alternate weeks becuase there is only 2 fish that hardly poop in it but my other small tank gets done weekly or sometimes twice because it has fry in it.





TheOldSalt said:


> They only need to be big enough for the fish to be able to breathe and swim comfortably, and they should have LIDS on them to keep them from jumping out onto the floor.
> 
> Yes, that's Ick Guard 2, which is pretty good stuff for scaleless fish.
> 
> As for water changes, mousey already gave you the answer---> it depends. If you like to make large volume changes of 35% or so, then do them often to prevent your tank water from drifting chemically too far from your new water. This prevents the shock of the new water being too different. small changes should also be done often, simply because they don't do very much at a time. If you make a lot of small water changes, once or twice a week, you will eventually still need to make an occasional large one every three or four months.




I have a 30 Gallon with 3 Female Blue Gouramis and 1 Elephant nose. I did a 40% Water change yesterday and for some reason Ammonia reads 0.25PPM, PH levels are in the ideal range nitrate and nitrite is at 0, cant understand the Ammonia thing, ive called for a more powerful filter because the one i used released some stuff (from the filter media) into the tank when i tried to move it, this was before the water change though. Should i do a 50% Water change again to get rid of the ammonia? About cycling i got this tank new without cycling as a gift, i knew nothing about fish when i recieved it but later learnt. My LFS said cycling isnt needed, he's a swindler so i was wrongly informed before i began asking more experienced and honest individuals. What should i do about the Ammonia guys?


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

If you have ammonia, it sounds like you either aren't doing your weekly water changes or this is a new tank that hasn't gone through its full cycling yet..


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> If you have ammonia, it sounds like you either aren't doing your weekly water changes or this is a new tank that hasn't gone through its full cycling yet..


Well i changed the water yesterday, im changing water twice a week. So its not that, as i explained in the previous post, i changed water 24 hours ago and still detect Ammonia at 0.25 PPM, thats whats bothering me, i think the reason for that is while re adjusting filter and cleaning filter media a LOT of crap got into the water, even though it was before i did the water change, it probably was too much. So im going to change again tomorrow and see. Yes, this tank wasnt cycled as i expounded, because i received it as a gift from someone who knows nothing about fish, also, my LFS is a conman pretty much, im from India so dont have too many options there. Luckily im a large sized importer of US goods so ive ordered everything from the US, am also working with UPS to import frozen foods directly from there.

Should i do a water change right away or should i leave it be for a while? Please advise.


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## SGT Z (Jul 7, 2010)

You're best medication is a clean tank. For the most part, if you have a clean tank with balanced happy fish they really won't get sick. I've had one fish get sick and that was because he got injured. Any other fish died within the first few weeks of owning it because it was sick to begin with, or old age.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

SGT Z said:


> You're best medication is a clean tank. For the most part, if you have a clean tank with balanced happy fish they really won't get sick. I've had one fish get sick and that was because he got injured. Any other fish died within the first few weeks of owning it because it was sick to begin with, or old age.


Thank you for the info but sometimes, like in the present instance, one could find ammonia traces even after a 50% water change the previous day, i think i might know why but even then its a concerning experience. If the Ammonia doesnt go down to 0 after tomorrows 50% water change i'll be a tad helpless, the Blue Gouramis seem to be quiet today which is really sickening to see after how happy they were just a day ago. Hoping for the best.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

If you have chloramine in your tap water you will always have a small ammonia reading for about 24 hours even if the tank is fully cycled. A majority of cities and towns across North America have chloramine in the water- that is why we have to use water conditioner. 
To check if your water has it test the water right out of the tap for ammonia after you add the water conditioner. Mine is always .25 ammonia right after I condition the tap water.
There is nothing you can do about this small amount. ignore it. 
If your water is not treated with cloramine but only chlorine which is highly unlikely ,but possible you can sit the water out overnight to let the chlorine disapate into the air.
A city near us does not use chloramine- it irradiates the water so that would change the water thing again.
CALL YOUR WATER COMPANY TO FIND OUT what they actually add to the water and what other toxins/chemicals are allowed in it. They may have a web site giving all that info. It is quite interesting.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> If you have chloramine in your tap water you will always have a small ammonia reading for about 24 hours even if the tank is fully cycled. A majority of cities and towns across North America have chloramine in the water- that is why we have to use water conditioner.
> To check if your water has it test the water right out of the tap for ammonia after you add the water conditioner. Mine is always .25 ammonia right after I condition the tap water.
> There is nothing you can do about this small amount. ignore it.
> If your water is not treated with cloramine but only chlorine which is highly unlikely ,but possible you can sit the water out overnight to let the chlorine disapate into the air.
> ...


Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. Thing is i checked for Ammonia once before and it was 0, thats why i doubt its the tap water, but i shall get it checked with the Water company. How about if i boil the water, will that eradicate all chemical presence? Please let me know. Also wont 0.25 PPM eventually kill fish like the elephant nose which are very sensitive or scaleless?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Boiling the water will only deplete all the oxygen in the water. The higher the temperature of the water the less oxygen it holds.
The pollutants/ toxins will still remain.
If the 0.25 ammonia remains forever it may harm the fish but once your tank is cycled properly and completely there will be no ammonia. If there is after a water change it is possibly because of the chloramines in the town supply. OR you may be doing too thorough of a cleaning in the tank and filter.
Let us know how you are going about gravel care and filter care and we will be able to give you helpful hints in that area also.
If you clean too thoroughly you will damage the biofilter too much and the ammonia will spike. Also overfeeding will cause the ammonia to spike as well, dead fish, rotting plants and snails etc all cause ammonia to go up.
How much are you feeding the fish? They actually need very little food daily. Sure they will eat everything you give them but they are pigs!;-)Let us know and spend a few hours on the different forums to find out more fish keeping info. I used to spend 3-4 hours a night when I first started fishkeeping. I nearly wore myself out and had lots of complaints from my husband because I was reading until 2 am, but there is a lot to learn.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> Boiling the water will only deplete all the oxygen in the water. The higher the temperature of the water the less oxygen it holds.
> The pollutants/ toxins will still remain.
> If the 0.25 ammonia remains forever it may harm the fish but once your tank is cycled properly and completely there will be no ammonia. If there is after a water change it is possibly because of the chloramines in the town supply. OR you may be doing too thorough of a cleaning in the tank and filter.
> Let us know how you are going about gravel care and filter care and we will be able to give you helpful hints in that area also.
> ...


Hey Mousey, firstly im immensely appreciative of the help your providing, thank you so much for the detailed responses.

Ok, i wont boil the water then. Ive read a lot about beneficial bacteria and cleaning, i dont ever clean thoroughly just for that reason, when i do a water change i clean the filter media which is a must based on how dirty it gets, i subtly submerge the filter and other caves/ hiding places in tank water itself (tank water that has been siphoned out into a seperate bucket due to a water change) and dont scrub anything whatsoever. I have a barebottom tank and mostly i only siphon any debris i might see on the bottom and other crevices without scrubbing anything. I always underfeed my fish, i feed them twice in VERY small portions because i like to supplement/ diversify their diet from what ive read. This is why i feed them 2 separate meals but again its so minimal that theyre done in a minute. Every once in a while i dont feed them an entire day to flush out toxins and keep a very close eye on debris and dirty water. Another reason WHY im shocked at the ammonia spike especially when i did a water change a day ago. I mainly believe this happened due to the accidental jerk to my filter which released a lot of crap into the water, even though this was before the water change it was after siphoning out old water and dirt/ debris.

I am in the same boat as you were, my Wife seems to feel im obsessed with this and hopes she was a fish jokingly lol Believe me ive read more than a 1000 pages in the 15 days ive 'been with' fishkeeping. Read everything about the fishes i have in the 30 Gal, the gift i received included 6 goldfish i gave them back and got a Discus, a clown loach and 2 elephant noses but finally after learning a lot decided to keep 1 elephant nose with 3 Blue Gouramis. (My clown loach died because my LFS at that point didnt ask me to acclimate, and i knew nothing about it, that is when i began learning and implementing a system, now my wife thinks i have a more stringent policy about what goes in the tank and how than a US Embassy in Iraq).

What do you think i can do to make things better, my tank looks clean, also, the Gouramis were very happy and active but got bogged down after the last water change, yesterday i thought this was due to the ammonia but today they seem more active so its perhaps due to them being spooked by the water change.

Also: On a separate note can i use latex gloves while tank cleaning? Theres a lot of contradictory information out there.

Thanks for everything and let me know!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I cannot tell you anything about latex gloves and the fish tank. I presume you mean the kind we use to wash dishes with? and not surgical latex gloves. Surgical gloves often have a type of powder on them to prevent sticking.
If you have a proper fish store as opposed to a pet store that sells fish you might check to see what they sell as gloves or perhaps search a site on the net that sells fish supplies.
Speaking of powder, you may be interested to know that I ran into someone the other day who had lost a tank of fish to cement dust when they renovated their basement. Water will absorb toxins such as paint fumes, cigarette smoke and dust from the air. Just something else for you to chew on.:idea:
what kind of filter media do you use? if you are using carbon you can dump it and save carbon for removing medication. Also do not change your filter media as recommended by the filter makers. it is a needless expensive. you can buy bulk media that you can improvise with in the filter. A lot cheaper and just as effective.
it is probably wise to use gloves when cleaning as fish carry all sorts of nasty things like TB.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> I cannot tell you anything about latex gloves and the fish tank. I presume you mean the kind we use to wash dishes with? and not surgical latex gloves. Surgical gloves often have a type of powder on them to prevent sticking.
> If you have a proper fish store as opposed to a pet store that sells fish you might check to see what they sell as gloves or perhaps search a site on the net that sells fish supplies.
> Speaking of powder, you may be interested to know that I ran into someone the other day who had lost a tank of fish to cement dust when they renovated their basement. Water will absorb toxins such as paint fumes, cigarette smoke and dust from the air. Just something else for you to chew on.:idea:
> what kind of filter media do you use? if you are using carbon you can dump it and save carbon for removing medication. Also do not change your filter media as recommended by the filter makers. it is a needless expensive. you can buy bulk media that you can improvise with in the filter. A lot cheaper and just as effective.
> it is probably wise to use gloves when cleaning as fish carry all sorts of nasty things like TB.


MY filter media is basically a couple of sponges, how do i find out if its carbon or such? Its just the standard sponge thing and no i wont be changing it until really necessary, just cleaning it when it gets dirty. 

Thanks for the info on toxins like paint fumes and cigarette smoke, luckily im very careful with the hygiene in my room, which is where my fish tank is, but will need to be sentient constantly. 

Yes, jeez, i heard of a guy who had to amputate his hand due to Fish TB, he basically had an open wound while cleaning the tank which is reckless really.

What kind of gloves do you recommend? The ones i was thinking bout arent surgical at all, would you recommend dish washing type?

Thanks again!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well i did a google search for aquarium gloves and there are a few sites to check out. Please feel free to check them out. 
I am one of those people who don't use gloves but do not do water changes if I have winter cracks in my hands and I always do a hot soapy running water wash after doing tanks.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> well i did a google search for aquarium gloves and there are a few sites to check out. Please feel free to check them out.
> I am one of those people who don't use gloves but do not do water changes if I have winter cracks in my hands and I always do a hot soapy running water wash after doing tanks.


Well most say its fine to do so, so going to go in for the non medicated or non surgical type of course. Im too paranoid about there being any chemicals in those gloves, ive imported the following gloves but until they get here (a week) ill just use rubber/latex gloves. Thanks for your help again.

Gloves: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15871

Ill post ammonia levels tomorrow or the day after, going to be changing water tomorrow, was about to do it today but had some unavoidable things transpire due to which i had to postpone.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> well i did a google search for aquarium gloves and there are a few sites to check out. Please feel free to check them out.
> I am one of those people who don't use gloves but do not do water changes if I have winter cracks in my hands and I always do a hot soapy running water wash after doing tanks.


Ok did a 50% water change, lets see what Ammonia levels are tomorrow!


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> well i did a google search for aquarium gloves and there are a few sites to check out. Please feel free to check them out.
> I am one of those people who don't use gloves but do not do water changes if I have winter cracks in my hands and I always do a hot soapy running water wash after doing tanks.


Ok i checked water parameters and sadly the Ammonias still at 0.25PPM, PH ranges are ideal and Nitrates and Nitrites are both 0. Ive executed 2 water changes in 8 days or such so its not that, the only thing i can think of is: 1) My Tank obviously isnt cycled ive had it for about 20 days though (I did use an anti bacterial/fungal medication after 7 days of owning this tank, my conniving LFS advised it and i didnt know better at that point so that might have killed all beneficial bacteria, so more like 13-15 days). 2) Could be the quality of water i get, i plan to check Ammonia levels in my tap water AND drinking water (boiled) if drinking water shows 0 Ammonia but tap water does have Ammonia present should i boil before adding it to the tank? I do have an Air Pump which runs 24 hours so not worried about depleted Oxygen. Im also soon going to be using 2 filters, 1 Box and 1 Power.

Anything else i should do? Let me know!

Update: Just did a tap water test and Ammonia reads 0, without a doubt, so this just got more complicated. Im thinking of sterlizing the container i use (bucket) to transfer water to the tank, its dedicated for that purpose but i think ill have to do that, whats the best way to sterilize the bucket?


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

How is everything now? Sorry i've been away for a while. Been busy with track and homework.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> How is everything now? Sorry i've been away for a while. Been busy with track and homework.


Hey man, good to see you back, hope homeworks going well. Things are just like i described within the previous post, that was yesterday. Im trying to investigate why im experiencing this persevering cluster of Ammonia (0.25PPM). My next immediate step as explained is to sterilize the bucket i use to transfer water into the tank. Any ideas about how to sterilize? Please let me know.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I VERY seriously doubt that the bucket is to blame.

The tank is bare-bottomed? Are there any decor items? Wood? Plants? 
Insufficient aeration in the filter could possibly, ( and by possibly I mean one-in-a-thousand chance ) be resulting in Reduction, the process by which nitrification goes in reverse, resulting in the creation of ammonia. I also doubt that one.

My only advice at this point is to leave everything alone and let it work.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well if you used medication in the tank that is a good place to start for your problems. Some meds screw everything up and if you were only part way through the cycle it sounds as if you are cycling again.
As TOS says let it alone and do its thing. keep monitoring the ammonia levels. if it is recycling you are going to see another spike unless you use some live bacteria like Stability in the tank. 
Make sure all the meds are out by running charcoal for 24 hours. (others may disagree with this recommendation)


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

I'd have to agree with salt, just leave everything alone and see what happens. It's hard to do that sometimes but it's probably what's best since you've been changing a lot recently and such.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> I VERY seriously doubt that the bucket is to blame.
> 
> The tank is bare-bottomed? Are there any decor items? Wood? Plants?
> Insufficient aeration in the filter could possibly, ( and by possibly I mean one-in-a-thousand chance ) be resulting in Reduction, the process by which nitrification goes in reverse, resulting in the creation of ammonia. I also doubt that one.
> ...


Ok i did one last water change before reading this one, what i noticed is the filter doesnt seem very efficient in terms of sucking out dirt, there were a lot of feces under the filter (ive called for another one), and i never overfeed. For 1 elephant nose and 3 blue gouramis how much do you think i should feed? I take a very small pinch, not a conventional pinch, i know thats too much, but please give me some reference. 

What is your take on 2 filters running at once?

My tank is bare bottomed yes, i have 4 caves for now which i clean each time with tank water when i do a water change, siphoning out any debris around or under them.

I shall check Ammonia levels tomorrow and report, however ill leave it be this time.

Thanks a million!


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

mousey said:


> well if you used medication in the tank that is a good place to start for your problems. Some meds screw everything up and if you were only part way through the cycle it sounds as if you are cycling again.
> As TOS says let it alone and do its thing. keep monitoring the ammonia levels. if it is recycling you are going to see another spike unless you use some live bacteria like Stability in the tank.
> Make sure all the meds are out by running charcoal for 24 hours. (others may disagree with this recommendation)


Ok, ill leave it be but like i mentioned i did another water change before i got to this. My only concern with meds is their effect on scaleless fish, my elephant nose is extremely sensitive so ill have to do some heavy duty research to find an appropriate one, any recommendations? Please let me know.

Im sorry, i didnt quite get that "Make sure all the meds are out by running charcoal for 24 hours." Is this a process? Could you elaborate?

Really appreciate it!


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> I'd have to agree with salt, just leave everything alone and see what happens. It's hard to do that sometimes but it's probably what's best since you've been changing a lot recently and such.


Ok thanks, no more changing, just worried about my elephant nose though, hes a little tooo sensitive and i want to do everything i can to make sure hes ok. They all seem to be eating well and the gouramis are very active, the elephant nose is moderately active, thats how they are though. So they havent YET been affected. The Blue Gouramis also have vibrant and flawless skin, the elephant nose too.

Hoping theres no ammonia this time.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

If they aren't showing signs of weakness or just acting strangely, then I wouldn't worry!


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> If they aren't showing signs of weakness or just acting strangely, then I wouldn't worry!


No they seem to be doing fine for now. Will keep a close eye on them, really anxious to check Ammonia levels tomorrow though.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> If they aren't showing signs of weakness or just acting strangely, then I wouldn't worry!


Could you help with this though?

"For 1 elephant nose and 3 blue gouramis how much do you think i should feed? I take a very small pinch, not a conventional pinch, i know thats too much, but please give me some reference."

Need to know feeding quantities from experienced campaigners, thanks a million!


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Since you don't have any bottom feeders or anything that would go along the bottom getting missed food, I would only feed them a little bit or however much they can eat within a couple minutes.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

A fish's stomach is about the same size as it's eyeball, so that should possibly help you guess how much to feed.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> Since you don't have any bottom feeders or anything that would go along the bottom getting missed food, I would only feed them a little bit or however much they can eat within a couple minutes.


The Elephant nose is a scavenger actually from what ive read, hes surely a bottom dweller, browsing through debris on the ground, if i get Apple Snails (Only 2 due to their breeding prowess) would that help keeping the tank a little cleaner? Let me know, ALSO how would i quarantine this one before adding to a tank?

Planning on adding a Pleco OR Apple snails, which would you guys recommend?


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> A fish's stomach is about the same size as it's eyeball, so that should possibly help you guess how much to feed.


Ill try to give it my best guess. Could you please help with my question on Apple Snails? Also how do i quarantine them?


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

Just did an Ammonia Check..0.25PPM again. Sad but ill keep trying, while i wont mess around with the tank with water changes (ill do scheduled weekly/bi weekly ones), im buying 2 more filters for this tank, besides the cheap Chinese box filter im buying 2 more power ones, my 100G will have a cannister one, however 2 power filters with capacities for upto 70G and 30G should eliminate any filter issues. I just discovered a Pile of poop under the filter again, makes NO sense how so much got there, i haven't even fed the fish yet after my previous water change. Any comments on this? Sadly, where i live, Fish keeping isnt a big thing and the supplies here are very limited, its a good thing im a large sized distributor of US goods, will have those filters with me within a week.

Planning on adding a Pleco OR Apple snails, which would you guys recommend?

Please help with suggestions and recommendations, thanks!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I would never recommend a pleco with an elephant nose.

Apple snails... these can not only harbor standard fish diseases, but they commonly carry flukes as well, and it can take months before the snails are rid of them. Your best bet is to find someone who farms snails specifically without fish, and INDOORS, well away from the birds which give them the flukes. you can't really give any medicine to snails without killing them.


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## vcorp (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> I would never recommend a pleco with an elephant nose.
> 
> Apple snails... these can not only harbor standard fish diseases, but they commonly carry flukes as well, and it can take months before the snails are rid of them. Your best bet is to find someone who farms snails specifically without fish, and INDOORS, well away from the birds which give them the flukes. you can't really give any medicine to snails without killing them.


OK thanks, no plecos, as for finding someone that farms them without fish, thats impossible where i live, is it possible to somehow quarantine a snail with hot water or such? Is there any way at all to make sure its not carrying anything? 

Let me know please.


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