# Filtration



## ritzgirl34 (Jan 20, 2005)

I have a 55 gallon tank with a Whisper 60 HOB. I am planning for cichlids and they say to overstock. I know my filtration is not good enough. Petco has some really cheap Aqua Clear filters and some not so cheap Emperors.

What would be the best combo... Replace the whipser completely? Add on a second filter?

If I did add on second filter, how powerful should it be? Is there such thing as over filtering?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The emporer is the best filter out of the 2. I personally would get a cannister filter for the tank and keep running the whisper for a month in conjunction. 55 Gallon tanks seem more suitable for cannisters than HOB filters.


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## ritzgirl34 (Jan 20, 2005)

Are they expensive? How do they work? Where do they go (on the floor?)? Are they louder than your average power filter?


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## turtlehead (Jan 28, 2005)

canister filter, EHIEM is silent, good filtration, customizable, pricey, but worth all the money.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

they are usually quieter, espicially if you have an enclosed stand because they go underneath the aquarium with hoses tha trun up the back and into the aquarium. depends @the LFS your prolly looking @ $60 to $80 for the 2 filters you are considering and you can get a fuval 404 for around $99 or a rena XP3 for about $110 or everyones favoriate the eheim pro 2 for around $199. 

I like the fuval if your on a budget ... the eheim if you're not I run a fuval 204 on my 28 bow front and a 304 on my 55 and they do the job ... well. And are very quiet. I also modified the fuval spray bar for the "in tank filters" to fit the output of the 204 and 304 so it goes through the spray bar across the whole top of the water which helps the gas exchange at the surface and helps keep the water more oxygenated. As an added bonus it also keep the "oil slick" from forming on top of the water also :wink: 


:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## ritzgirl34 (Jan 20, 2005)

Aquaclear 300 - $23
Emporer 400 - $45
Fluval 304 - $90

You really think it's worth twice the cash?


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## icp (Jan 18, 2005)

i would go with an xp3 if you have the money but otherwise i would buy an AC500 and run it in conjunction with your current filter.


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## icp (Jan 18, 2005)

ritzgirl34 @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> Aquaclear 300 - $23
> Emporer 400 - $45
> Fluval 304 - $90
> 
> You really think it's worth twice the cash?



if the tank is over stocked the more gph the better so if this were my tank i would go with a HOB(AC500  428GPH)  over a canister most of those listed were mid 300's gph


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

GPH is important but the cannister with a spraybar give more flow under the surface. Helps keep debris from falling between the rocks and whatnot. You may get more GPH from the aquaclear but you get more water circulation with a cannister. Filtering 428 GPH is no good if it only filters 2/3 of the tank.


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## turtlehead (Jan 28, 2005)

some bad things about a HOB filter is that it only get a certian amount of debris and the rest is just left floating and it is a bad site, the canisters move it in a circular movement which make it more effective to catch teh debris so your tank will be spotless. They can be customized to your liking.


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

We have 3 hot magnum pumps running on our 55 gallon. theres lots of circulation and plenty of recycled water!


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

ritzgirl34 @ Mon 31 Jan said:


> Aquaclear 300 - $23
> Emporer 400 - $45
> Fluval 304 - $90
> 
> You really think it's worth twice the cash?



you're not going to find the emperor 400 at any LFS for $45 ... unless their taking a "lossleader" trying to get you in the store even @ that pet place it's $44.99 and LFS's are usually atleast 50% higher than them on average

and you can't compait the emp 400 to the AC 300 either .. you have to jump up to the AC 500 to get "compairable" in water flowage and filtering capacity. the AC 500 (now called the AC 110)goes for about $75 in most LFS even the big chains like petco and for about $36 at the afore mentioned online retailer. 

If your LFSs' carry the products for those prices WHERE DO YOU LIVE cause I'm moving :fish: :fish: !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

and yes the fuval would still be worth the diffrence. without a HOB filter you can move the tank back to within 2" of the back wall (closer if you absolutly have to) saving floor space and making the "footprint" of the tank smaller. you can set the canister near the front of your stand near the door for very easy in and out maintenance, instead of the chair to get the the filter if you're short like my mom :lol: and the BIO load is a TON better in the canisters and not practically devistated every time you change the "cartridge" like in most HOB filters.

IMO

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

[quote="icp @ Mon 31 Jan, 8:33 pm]

if the tank is over stocked the more gph the better so if this were my tank i would go with a HOB(AC500  428GPH)  over a canister most of those listed were mid 300's gph[/quote]


but what you fail to mention is atleast 25% of the water in the AC 500 goes unfiltered directly back into the tank EVEN when just cleaned (worse when it starts to get full "the sponge"). It is not 100% filtered water being returned to the tank like most all canisters. so your 428 GPH just got knocked down to 321gph of FILTERED water at it's best ... give or take a few gph but I think you catch my drift


:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

AND .. I happen to love and currently own 4 AC 500's so I know of what I speak :wink: I dont' care what Hagen tries to tell you on their web site .. I see it in action every day. they are GREAT filters for tanks up to 55 and the new AC 110 with the BIO ceramic rings is even better with the bio filtering BUT still not a 100% filtered water type filter by a long shot.

:mrgreen:


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

fishfreaks @ Mon 31 Jan said:


> We have 3 hot magnum pumps running on our 55 gallon. theres lots of circulation and plenty of recycled water!



DUDE that's alot of hanging ... and alot of charcoal if you use carbon in them and change it every 4 weeks or so :shock: 

:mrgreen:


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

we do not have charcoal in them, we use cotton, it does not bother us hanging. we just hide them with decorations as much as we can, no biggie. all we care about is good filtration and water flow


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## icp (Jan 18, 2005)

was just what i would do  :roll:  i favor HOB over canister even tho i run  wet/dry, canister(3-xp3's) and multipul HOB including ac mini+300 + 500. :mrgreen:

This seems to be a topic of personal prefrence so i vote add another HOB and if you have 100$ i would go with xp3 :mrgreen:


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## ritzgirl34 (Jan 20, 2005)

joe kool @ 1/31/2005 said:


> If your LFSs' carry the products for those prices WHERE DO YOU LIVE cause I'm moving :fish:  :fish: !!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


All those prices were taken from the petco website.

And if you use their "20% off on orders of $40 or more", it's $72. And they offer free shipping.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

I just ASSuMEd that when she said petco he was talking about his LFS. Petco web stie is a whole other animal AND the petco "stores" WILL NOT match their own website pricing. the petco store here in town wants $75 for the AC500 and $70ish for the emp 400  (heck they want $199 for the fuval 404 :shock: )

I buy ALL my dry goods online either ... well I'm not sure what stores we are or aren't supposed to mention in here :mrgreen:  

and have started ordering more and more of my live goods online as well. I'll get things on clearance from time to time (latest was a 28gal bow front tank top light and stand for $57.00   )

I know there are deals to be had online ... is that 20% off a special code or just for anyone who orders over that ammount ... 

never mind ... that's ONLY for FIRST TIME shoppers ...  :? you can't reall count that on a regular basis 

BUT if there still running that the next time I order you better bet I'll be shopping there (I just dropped $500 @ that pet place :shock: )

also their "free shipping"  TINY selection area already has shipping figured in ... (atleast I hope so cause thier prices are about $5 over "petplace" on most ever higher cost item in there"filters and stuff")

my order I mentioned above cost me $12.99 shipping for the entire order. I didn't think that was too shabby seeing as in the "free shipping" section just the 4 or 5 item I compaired that I just bought added up to over $24 bucks more!

:mrgreen:


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

I must of offended somebody here too ... sheesh ... just trying to give a good opinion the diffrent filtration options out there ... 

got hit up for another negitave karma tonight :| 


guess I'll stick to the cichlid section

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## icp (Jan 18, 2005)

joe kool @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> I must of offended somebody here too ... sheesh ...  just trying to give a good opinion the diffrent filtration options out there ...
> 
> got hit up for another negitave karma tonight  :|
> 
> ...


that sux ill bump u up one then :mrgreen:


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## mrmoby (Jan 18, 2005)

OK...here's one vote for the Emperor. I can't speak to the benefits vs a canister, all I can tell you is that I have been very happy with its performance. Someone had posted info that Petco was selling them online during a special promotion for like $35, with free shipping. I got mine from Fosters and Smith for $39. You are definitly best to shop online. Petco sells the Emperor in the retail store for $76, as do most of the other stores around here. Same holds true for the filter media, lot cheaper online, even with shipping, though with some outlets, you are better off having a larger order, for better rates.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

icp @ Tue 01 Feb said:


> joe kool @ Tue Feb 01 said:
> 
> 
> > I must of offended somebody here too ... sheesh ...  just trying to give a good opinion the diffrent filtration options out there ...
> ...


Thanks ... but I went up 1 and back 2 more :shock: 

it's all good though 

only thing is I notice you don't gain fish flakes as fast the lower your karma gets from "even" (atleast it seems that way. I used to get about 10 flakes per post .. since I've been "in the hole" in the karma field it's gone down to like 10 per 5 or 6 posts .. haven't really been counting) I could be wrong though.

On the emperor thing (as well as most HOB filters (espicially if you use a "pre filter" sponge .. or anything else that restricts flow)) in my experiance every couple years you will have to change the impeller to "quieten" them back down. (and shaft if it's not part of the impeller assy. like the Aqua Clear line, which is a pain in the butt to change by the way) 

you wont' really notice it untill one day you say to yourself ... boy that filter is loud when you walk by the tank. Change out the impeller assy (AND SHAFT if you don't replace the shaft the new impeller wont' last near as long because the shaft has been worn by the "spinning" of the impeller) 

that's another "plus" for the canister line (some of them anyway) as they either have switched or are switching to a ceramic shaft (I know my new fuvals have one, my old mag 350 don't)


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## aquariumfishguy (Jan 18, 2005)

As I've said, I have given up on Karma a long time back. Someone gave many of us negative karma back just a day or two after the site reopened. I think I had 2 posts when I got my first negative karma. That just goes to show you how many people take karma stats seriously.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

:? I know 


I'm "trying to get back to even to see if my theroy about the fish flake thing holds ture but I got hit with 3 negs and a pos in the last 24 hrs ...

and havent' done anything IMO to come close to deserving a neg  


well see :mrgreen: 

:mrgreen: 

BTW I'm bringing you back to even for the info on the IE replacement stuff :mrgreen: ... let me know if it seems like you're getting more flakes

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## pkillur (May 24, 2006)

ritzgirl34 said:


> What would be the best combo... Replace the whipser completely? Add on a second filter?
> 
> If I did add on second filter, how powerful should it be? Is there such thing as over filtering?


I have a Flu-Val 404 for my 72 gallon tank and I must say in conjunction with my corycats and algae eaters I have almost NO maintenance for green or brown algae. My Nitrates are almost always minimal (like 20-30 ish). The flow is "OK" but probably could be a bit more powerful (I have a bowfront and it gets a bit baffled in the corners. However I never get oilslick or foam like I used to with the UGF's in my old tank.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

joe kool said:


> but what you fail to mention is atleast 25% of the water in the AC 500 goes unfiltered directly back into the tank EVEN when just cleaned (worse when it starts to get full "the sponge"). It is not 100% filtered water being returned to the tank like most all canisters. so your 428 GPH just got knocked down to 321gph of FILTERED water at it's best ... give or take a few gph but I think you catch my drift
> 
> 
> :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


unless your spending a good chunk of change on a expensive canister you are still going to get bypass in a canister. The Eheim Pros I believe claim to have zero bypass but in my neck of the woods those are over $200. I own a Fluval 404, and A AC500 and I used to own an emperor. I think the emperor may be better in a planted tank as it diffuses the water across the top better, the AC 500 tends to create a much more harsh down current towards the front of the tank, which if the tank is planted could ruin the look of some of the lighter leaved plants, wisteria ect. If not planted and looking for current I would say the AC500, in a 55g that will produce a lot of water movement, and the mechanical filtration is tip top. And i think that the AC 500 can carry a large load of fish. However there is no doubt that if budget is not an issue, get yourself a canister. The biological options are much more abundant, and since they are all self priming, pretty low maintenance as well. Any HOB filter requires more work, and its a bit trickier to keep the biological colony of welcomed bacteria in the filter system. eg. HOB requires you to rinse the sponge in tank water in a bucket, not to use tap water as that will kill bacteria and start a mini cycle. However anyone who has done this knows how hard it is to get that sponge clean using the proper method. dont know if this blurb helped but.......... all 3 have their place in a tank, but really depends on application, planted ect....... and of course $$$$$

ziggy.


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