# filter advice?



## dan3345

Hey guys I got a problem. I am fed up with my filter. Its a canister filter for a 80 gallon, I can't remember the manufacturer. Anyways it works all right but it such a [email protected]$#& to clean. So, I was wondering if anyone could recommend to me a better one? I am using it on a 46 gallon freshwater tank.

I was currently considering this -- The eheim Pro 3 filter 2073, or going the expensive route and saving for the Fluval G3. The G3 is amazing. Flat out amazing.. I was also considering the magnum marineland filter. Not the one that hangs on the side, but the large skimmer like one. I really like this marineland but Im not sure what the cleaning work would be like. I like mostly that the outside is completely clear so I can easily see how caked the interior is without stopping the whole thing for cleaning. My biggest concern with this is that it appears to also be a skimmer, atleast through looks, so I am wondering if this would be unnecessary for a freshwater. Oh and hears the link. 
http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdetail.aspx?id=2054&cid=1988&mid=3226

Also I just want to mention I am not having water quality issues I am just really annoyed at how unfriendly the filter I have is towards cleaning and maintenance.


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## toddnbecka

HOB filters are easier to maintain, personally I prefer aquaclears. WHen you notice a reduction in flow rate just rinse out the sponges, takes less than 5 minutes and minimal work. Canisters of any brand are simply more work to clean, but have more media capacity than hob's. Not really necessary unless you have a bare bottom tank w/out a supplemental sponge filter though IMO.
As for the fluval G3, more complex and high-tech parts just means more expense to repair or replace (and more hassles when something fails) in the long run. The classic Eheim canisters are probably the best design around regarding effectiveness, and can be backflushed if you don't want to tear down for more thorough cleaning. 
There are surface skimmers available for several different filters, both canister and aquaclear hob's. Their purpose is to remove floating film from the water, nothing to do with SW or FW specifically.


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## funlad3

Despite what others say, I love my Penguin Biowheel 125. It's on my 44 gallon Pentagon. (Yay! It's not a 35 gallon hex!)


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## TheOldSalt

Magnums are easy to clean, BUT they are a royal pain to re-prime and restart.


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## AquariumTech

The Fluval G series are probably the easiest canister filter to take care of out there. For real, I love them. Really they are the best on the market, except for 2 things. 1. Price. 2. the mechanical filter part isnt very flexible as to what you can use for media. What is nice though is that the one its comes with is almost a no pass filter which is nice, because, its super easy to clean out anyways and keeps your water looking immaculate. Id highly suggest you save up for one.


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## AquariumTech

O also to mention right, now on the Gs they are doing 50 dollar rebates on them until June I believe (at least in my state). Also I gotta love the water monitoring stuff. The temperature meter is like the most accurate Ive seen in mass produced aquatics (not including lab instruments) yet.

Edit- Have a magnum, dont really like it that much, it gets the job done and it can be used with sorts of different media, but for the area, performance, and maintenance I would just go with an Aquaclear 70 or 110. Also the Fluval C4 is good for HOBs too. Aquaclears and Fluvals (Hagen) beats Marineland hands down in pretty much everything, the bio-wheels are just hype. 

Really a canister would be a better choice though, besides the G series, I love the Fluval 05 series.


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## marinelover

The soul of Aquarium Filters is Aquarium Filter Media, which is the actual site of filtration in a filter. An Aquarium Filter Media, due to its porosity, can filter out all or most of the tiny pieces of metabolic wastes and other water pollutants present in an aquarium.


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## blindkiller85

Believe me I know your pain on cleaning a canister filter as I have a fluval FX5. Thing is as big as a 5 gallon bucket and filled with media. Granted, I don't have to clean it but once a month, but I'd sacrifice and do it more for any other HOB filter. But since I have it, I'll just stick to it. Filtration on it is awesome.

HOB filters are going to be the easiest route. I have a HOB on my 10 gallon and it takes me 30 minutes every two weeks to clean the entire tank and filter (and 10 minutes for weekly water changes).

From my generic understanding, with any canister filter it's all contained and you'll have to break it down, clean, put it back in the canister, fill it up and start it back up.




marinelover said:


> The soul of Aquarium Filters is Aquarium Filter Media, which is the actual site of filtration in a filter. An Aquarium Filter Media, due to its porosity, can filter out all or most of the tiny pieces of metabolic wastes and other water pollutants present in an aquarium.


Love my spam in the afternoon!


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## Kurt R Furan

What does HOB stand for... Hang on Back? If that's the case, then I gotta say, I love them. I've never used a canister filter before, but they sound like a big hassle. I've worked with Internal filters, and they're just a waste of money. You have to change out the media WAYYYY too often, and you have to buy individual cartridges each time UGH! When I was little, I had a hob. All I had to do was take out the the mesh carbon bag and the sponge, replace the carbon in the bag, rinse the gunk out of the sponge, and put it back in. Never realized what an easy task it was till I lost it and got a new filter with the money-guzzling cartridge system. Now I've got my Aquaclear HOB and I'm not giving it up for anything. It's done a really great job!


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## AquariumTech

Yea, HOB = Hang On Back, canisters in most cases are better though, and older ones can defiantly be a hassle, the ones that come out these days are pretty easy to work with.


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## Mikaila31

sorry guys but canisters outrun HOBs in so many ways. HOBs are the last type filter I would ever want. Filterless is better then a HOB in my book lol. 

As far as canisters I use a Rena and still love it as much as I did 5 years go.


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## emc7

IMO HOBs have advantages. Of course, if you can replace a 55 with an HOB with a 75 with a canister, go for it. HOBs are a waste of space and are noisy. But an HOB will tell you when it is clogged, with a canister, you need to clean on a schedule or watch the flow. HOBs are always aerobic and don't start smelling like sulfur if you pull the plug for a few days. HOBs are easier to change just a portion of the media.

A lot of my tanks have one of each. I don't bother with arguing which filter is best, just that I have enough filtration on all my tanks. I will take any working filter over no filter. Putting the noisiest ones in the basement.
And any 2 filters over 1.


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## Mikaila31

each to their own I guess. I've been playing around with filterless lately, I may not go back lol.


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## emc7

I don't think I could stand a fish load low enough to make a practical filter-less tank. But if you are one of those people that uses a few fish to decorate your aquatic garden, go for it.


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## Mikaila31

god no, I stock just as heavy as the next person I don't agree with light stocking unless ofc I'm too broke to buy fish. 

Just to give you an idea though my 15 gallon filterless tank has 17ish fish and roughly the same load as my filtered 20 gallon high tech, but maintains better water quality. Neither are fully stocked ATM, I use local auctions to get most my fish so be over a month before I get more fish.


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## AquariumTech

Mikaila31 said:


> sorry guys but canisters outrun HOBs in so many ways. HOBs are the last type filter I would ever want. Filterless is better then a HOB in my book lol.
> 
> As far as canisters I use a Rena and still love it as much as I did 5 years go.



Wow, that is really a false statement. I do agree like I said above that in most cases, a canisters are better but HOBs have some advantages. Not to mention the only reasons that canisters are considered "better" is due to the amount of media they can hold. In some cases as well, that they can produce more flow for bigger tanks that might need it. 

If a HOB and a canister were to both have the same type of flow path, gph, and media content, it wouldnt make a bit of difference, it just depends where you want your filter placed. Not to mention in most cases HOBs are easy to clean (enter the Fluval C Series, you dont even have to unplug that thing to clean it).

Besides, the worst filter hands down with years of data, experience, and just plain common sense is easily the undergravel filter, thats the only one you really need to stay away from.


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## Mikaila31

I believe my comment to be true, I simply don't use HOBs. Even if the flow path, gph, and media content were exactly the same I would pic the canister hands down, IDC what brand of canister. If I had to take a HOB, I would just turn round and sell it. And thats not a joke either, I have gotten free HOBs before and they get tested and sold or tossed if they are garbage. I bought a brand new aquaclear and resold it for a internal within a week. I do/would prefer filterless over a HOB. If that ever fails me there is the DIY sponge filter.

Why I dislike HOBs so much is like you mentioned they don't normally hold as much media or water as a similarly rated canister filter. A lot of HOBs like Whispers and Penguin provide terrible media and the design makes it had to use anything but the silly cartridges. Some like the Aquaclears are better in this area. However if we compare a Hob and a canister with equal specs the canister is generally close to (or) silent where the HOB is the loudest thing you can use on a fishtank. Canisters come with a spray bar which generally allows for better circulation by directing flow the lenght of the tank instead of pouring it in from above. Canister also allows the input and output to be placed where the keeper desires them to be. HOBs have this fixed, so the filter can keep sucking up water it just poured into the tank. HOBs cause a lot of surface movement by pouring water back into tank which hinders any movement later to go planted. I fail to see how cleaning is quicker with the HOB since its complicated to get them off the tank, or do you all only clean the media and not the filter itself? They also need to be cleaned more often. So even if it takes 10min a week to clean a HOB, it takes me 25 min ever 6-8 weeks to clean my Rena XP3. Canister disconnects from the aquarium with the flip of a lever and is easily carried to the sink. Entire filter and especially the motor/impeller is then available for cleaning. HOBs are much more visible then canisters being where they are. 

I dislike the design of HOBs because to me the normally smaller volume of both water and media can end up being a tanks downfall if there ever is a long power outage. HOBs are the filter that will need the soonest attention apart from trickle filters. Low water volume means food in the filter is depleted quicker. I forget which brand employs "biowheels", but these provide a excellent area for large bacterial colonization. Yet in a power outage these filters leave a good chunk of your media high and dry. You just have to hope you are around to intervene before it dries out completely, otherwise your out a good chunk of bacteria. On the other had, its extremely easy to start a siphon through a canister in the case of a power outage lasting long enough to effect a canister filter. You don't even need anything apart from a bucket to do this. I will also propose a question I just thought of while typing this. If you attach a really long water change hose(python hose/garden hose) to the output of a canister and turn the filter back on, can you do a really fast tank drain? lol (I'll have the answer tomorrow :3) <End of my rant>


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## emc7

I have used canister filters to drain tanks. They are better than gravity, but not as good as the water pump I bought for that specific purpose. If you are going to make a habit of it, buy an extra set of 'quick-connect' or whatever valve system that filter has and put one on a long hose.

What do you filter your 'filterless' tanks with? Is it like those barrels full of pond irises and water lilies (I'm told you can do a 40 gallon barrel with pond plants and fish on your porch in the summer here). I'm not interested in doing filter-less inside, but I don't really want to run electricity outside.


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## Mikaila31

Neat I will see what my canister can do when draining tomorrow.

Filterless uses the plants and generally low tech, but you also need to push the plants a bit to get good growth. Basically you can't have low low lighting if you want good stock, yet you still want to stay low tech. I am familiar with the outdoor tub. Breeders do that even up here in MN in the summer. Its a long process though, setting tubs up. Usually animal troughs are used. Filled and pond mud or water is added and it is left to sit for a month or so in spring. Buy the time it is warm enough the thing is crawling with daphnia and other yummies. A breeding group is added, generally fish load is low. Like 12 adult boesemani to a 100-200 gallon trough. Breeding depends on the fish, most go crazy simply left to there own devices. Some are real good at eating their young so they have to be moved to a new tub. Tubs or troughs are plastic and come from farm stores or craigslist. Some will cut holes in the sides near the top and install a screen so when it rains there is not a complete overflow. 

Filterless tanks often still require a powerhead to provide proper circulation for temperature. Unless the tank is kept in a warm room. Or simply kept colder then normal. Out of all 4 of my tanks only one is filtered and maintains a flow 24/7, all the rest don't see a constant flow and sit stagnant at night(lights and pumps run on same timer), 1 semi-filtered, 2 without filters(but ones itty bitty).


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## Trout

I've never had to Clean out the entire inside of a HOB before. Anyway, If I took the extension off of my intake, in the case of a power outage, gravity would take over and siphon action would continue to run the filter. And I always found that unless the water level was really low, my aquaclear was very quiet, and when it did make noise, it was just the water falling into the tank, because the level was low.


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## Mikaila31

if HOBs could work via gravity they wouldn't have a motor. Taking the intake off the hob won't do a thing, you might get a slight trickle until things equalize. A HOB pumps the water level of the filter above that of the tank w/o power this doesn't happen unless you manually add water to the HOB. 

Never cleaned the inside of a HOB before. Do you not even touch the impellers and the impeller slot when cleaning the filter? Cleaning the filter itself is just as important as cleaning the media. Media is only as reliable as the filter...

I personally can't stand the noise they make, my aquaclear was silly loud. I fought with it for the whole week trying to get it to reach some level of semi-quiet. I never reached the point where I could let it run the whole night without unplugging it. It wasn't the water noise, it made a vibrating rattling sound much like a cheap airpump. The sound of the water returning to the tank by itself is still louder then most of my tank, which are all basically dead silent. CO2 makes the most noise, not my filters. 

I have my Rena canister which has not had a single problem in the 5 years I have had it, it still hold almost all the media it came with + filter floss and other random stuff. I don't quite see the point of priming canisters, I just fill them up with water before reattaching them to the tank, then bleed any extra air off. All my others are internal filters or DIY sponge filters. 

I forgot to mention UGF in my last reply, while its true the conventional UGF is definitely undesired. There is nothing wrong with the practicality of the newer methods that fix the faults the original UGF design had.


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## AquariumTech

Mikaila31 said:


> I believe my comment to be true, I simply don't use HOBs. Even if the flow path, gph, and media content were exactly the same I would pic the canister hands down, IDC what brand of canister. If I had to take a HOB, I would just turn round and sell it. And thats not a joke either, I have gotten free HOBs before and they get tested and sold or tossed if they are garbage. I bought a brand new aquaclear and resold it for a internal within a week. I do/would prefer filterless over a HOB. If that ever fails me there is the DIY sponge filter.
> 
> Why I dislike HOBs so much is like you mentioned they don't normally hold as much media or water as a similarly rated canister filter. A lot of HOBs like Whispers and Penguin provide terrible media and the design makes it had to use anything but the silly cartridges. Some like the Aquaclears are better in this area. However if we compare a Hob and a canister with equal specs the canister is generally close to (or) silent where the HOB is the loudest thing you can use on a fishtank. Canisters come with a spray bar which generally allows for better circulation by directing flow the lenght of the tank instead of pouring it in from above. Canister also allows the input and output to be placed where the keeper desires them to be. HOBs have this fixed, so the filter can keep sucking up water it just poured into the tank. HOBs cause a lot of surface movement by pouring water back into tank which hinders any movement later to go planted. I fail to see how cleaning is quicker with the HOB since its complicated to get them off the tank, or do you all only clean the media and not the filter itself? They also need to be cleaned more often. So even if it takes 10min a week to clean a HOB, it takes me 25 min ever 6-8 weeks to clean my Rena XP3. Canister disconnects from the aquarium with the flip of a lever and is easily carried to the sink. Entire filter and especially the motor/impeller is then available for cleaning. HOBs are much more visible then canisters being where they are.
> 
> I dislike the design of HOBs because to me the normally smaller volume of both water and media can end up being a tanks downfall if there ever is a long power outage. HOBs are the filter that will need the soonest attention apart from trickle filters. Low water volume means food in the filter is depleted quicker. I forget which brand employs "biowheels", but these provide a excellent area for large bacterial colonization. Yet in a power outage these filters leave a good chunk of your media high and dry. You just have to hope you are around to intervene before it dries out completely, otherwise your out a good chunk of bacteria. On the other had, its extremely easy to start a siphon through a canister in the case of a power outage lasting long enough to effect a canister filter. You don't even need anything apart from a bucket to do this. I will also propose a question I just thought of while typing this. If you attach a really long water change hose(python hose/garden hose) to the output of a canister and turn the filter back on, can you do a really fast tank drain? lol (I'll have the answer tomorrow :3) <End of my rant>




See pretty much everything you said though isnt necessarily "true" pretty much the entire thing was just a greatly biased opinion. It doesnt prove there is anything wrong with HOBs, and even I like canisters better myself. If youve had ever used anything like very first fluval 04 series or 03 series, or even before and different brand versions, you would know how much of a pain in the ass they can be. Like I said though most canisters are easy to clean these days. Either way, you can clean even some of the biggest HOBs in your sink, I have to clean my canisters in my bath tub, it makes much more of a mess too, depending which filter it is. 

The only real thing I can see is true is the whole power outage thing, but I really dont buy a filter thinking about a power outage situation, because it really doesnt happen enough or long enough for it to be a big deal. I live here right on the east coast of Florida, so I would know, we get hurricanes and bad storms in the summer quite often. The Bio-wheels are just hype too, as with most HOBs (other than aquaclears, Fluval C, rena smart filter, and a couple others). Anyways the bio-wheel is a whole other story, but that is just all unbased, unfairly biased opinion.


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## cklskypilot

I gave up on can. filters a long time ago. to much work. know I have a 10 gal. sump tank with a skimmer and a 5 ppm sock. I spend a whole whopping 3 min. a week cleaning my system. I also have live plants that help complete the whole ECO system.


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## Mikaila31

Thought opinions were the whole point of a forum? So I made a biased post against HOBs, I can easily do the same for any other type of filter. It wouldn't change my opinion on HOBs though. I prefer DIY over most other options. So, I agree with the above that a sump is much better then a canister on a large tank. I buy most all my equipment thinking about a worst case scenario and I always judge it on how easily it is modified to fix any flaws or to simply make it work exactly as I want. If all someone wants is a filter that filters water buy or make whatever you want that achieves that. Not everyone runs tanks the same. I keep all densely planted tanks, I find major flaws in HOB's. Others may not care about things like surface disruption, but for some of us it does have a real negative affect. Not all my tanks run the same, some need a canister, others do better with a filter driven by used power heads and held together with rubber bands.


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## Trout

Never did have to mess with the impeller on a HOB. But... I CONSTANTLY had to clean my internal filter. The motor kept getting clogged with junk . Now I have a smaller internal filter for my 2.5 bow-front, and it never get's clogged except for the cartridge, because it runs solely on an airpump that creates a kind of vacuum with bubbles up the intake.  I'm really happy with this one, except the problem of constantly having to buy new (overpriced) media cartridges.


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## toddnbecka

For the sake of simplicity an air-driven sponge filter (or several for a larger tank) will cover biofiltration very well, and will also pick up a good bit of debris. No impellers to worry about, just rinse the sponge when doing regular water changes. I use one in each of my tanks along with canisters or hob's for several reasons. Even the Eheim Pro on my 30 long canister gets loaded up with debris and pumps very little water before cleaning, but the air-driven sponge filter keeps the water circulating quite well enough. That tank houses 10 adult pleco's and fry. I just moved 50+ ~1.5" super red BN to another tank last night, and there are an uncounted number of smaller ones from a more recent spawn still remaining in the tank. Not to mention a gravid female that looks ready to spawn again soon, which is why I moved the larger ones.


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## emc7

I've used about every kind of filters and they all have drawbacks and areas where they excel. I agree with T&B about sponge filters. They are the first ones I recommend, and the ones I keep extras of. They are cheap to buy, cheap to run, easy to move, tolerable to clean. They have really only have a few failure points. The airline can come off or get kinked and the air supply can clog (mineral build-up at the narrowest place) and the air can stop because of 'balancing' issues (the other tank drops its water level). Run extra air, have individual valves, and be regular with cleaning and they will do the job for years at low cost. The main drawbacks are ugliness and the fun of cleaning them.


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## emc7

Having a bunch of the same filter can make your life easier. 

What I don't get is all this passion. Some people are 'in-love' with certain models or brands, others rabidly hate certain types. Why the emotion? Did one leak all over your bedroom? Did a noisy filter ruin your sleep for a year? The only equipment I've ever hated was a heater that cooked my favorite fish.

If you have a super-noisy filter, try contacting the maker. Some will send you new parts to quiet it.

Filters are just a tool, identify your needs and we can help you pick one that will do the job. 

Don't sell everyone what you love. It may not meet their needs. Thats as unhelpful as telling everyone who asks for help with freshwater to dump it and go salt. Heartfelt opinion, but not especially useful.

Personally, I like canisters, but I don't trust them. The intakes clog, the impeller get tied up by plant, they stop working with no notice and they pop hoses and try to empty my tanks onto the floor. The best ones are pricey and cheap ones are noisy. And I don't like having to make a tank 'filter-less' to do regular maintenance. But I don't tell people not to get them. They are the most 'invisible' filter, great for a living room tank, and are useful for 'gravel washing'.

You can find some good old threads the filter pros and cons of filter types if you use the advanced search.


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