# Help please :)



## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Hey guys.

Ok so bit of a long story but I will try to shorten it down.

About three weeks ago I decided I wanted to get my first tank and a fancy goldfish. So as I am sure you hear a lot - store didn't tell me anything about cycling (it was a fish store too) and said to set tank up for 3 days and add Tetra safe start when you put the fish in. They also did not tell me that 10 gallons is not enough for a goldfish (an oranda).

Basically my tank has had my fish in for two weeks and I have been checking levels everyday. Over the past week ammonia has risen as expected but reached 3 (I undestand it is meant to be below 0.1?) and is hovering between 1-3. I have no nitrites and nitrates (possible 20). My fish has seemed fine up until last night - he(?) is sitting on the gravel or the plant quite a bit, lethargic. When I get home and go to feed him it takes a while for him to move but he will then eat, have a bit of a dart around but goes back to hiding. He used to be really energetic.

I'm unsure what to do - I have been doing water changes (about 25%) but ammonia is just not shifting.

I have since bought a bigger tank (25 gallon) to put him in but this is yet to be set up so can't transfer him until I have cycled it etc. 

I have looked for signs of ammonia poisoning (gulping, red streaks) but there is none, the only sign is his behaviour. Is it possible he is lonely??

To get the ammonia down should I just keep doing the water changes? Should I add ammo-lock or anything?

Thanks guys in advance - my next tank will be properly cycled to avoid this again!!


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## Hydr0 JoE (Jan 13, 2009)

I would use ammo-lock once, and start using seachem stability and prime every day for 1 week, which will help the cycling, but the ammo-lock with throw off your water readings so be aware


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Ok thanks guys. I know I can get Prime here (UK) but never seen Stability - I will look though. Should I keep up with 25% water changes every other day?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

how big is this oranda?... 10 inches?..... i would assume that it is only 2-4 inches long.. plenty small enough to cycle your tank without any adverse effects.. what kind of filtration do you have?... for a 10 gallon you need at least a 100 GPH filter... for the 25 gallon 250 GPH... you also need good aeration such as a couple of airstones... what temp do you keep it at?.... this is a carp.. carp like cooler water...low 70's or lower.. what are you feeding the fish?.... it needs a diet of high quality food that is specifically formulated for goldfish....

if it isn't showing any signs of ammonia poisoning, i would just keep up with normal water changes and test a couple of times a week.. the more you mees with things ; the more problems you create for yourself.


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. Have just been to the local store and took a sample of water with me, as I only have strip tests thought their liquid kit would be more accurate.

Anyway, turns out I do have some nitrites that my kit isn't picking up, and my ammonia level is 1.0. pH is apparently fine (on my kit it comes out between 6.5 and 7).

So advice I was given there is to keep up with 25% water changes every other day and to only feed every other day.

In answer to your questions. The fish is only about 2 inches including tail. I don't know the exact details of the filter (I will look for the box in a minute) but I know it is meant to be capable of filtering a tank at least 50% bigger than mine. As for aeration I have no air stones at the moment - but I have the filter outlet just above the water line to produce a fountain effect for about half the day. I feed sinking pellets (tetra for fancy goldfish) and he has had a shelled pea or two but not in the past week. 

I'll keep you posted-hopefully he'll make it.


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Update

When I went to the store yesterday I bought an API master kit so could accurately test the parameters. Did a 25% water change too.

This morning he was a bit more lively and apparently has been a bit better today whilst I was at work. Just got home and he is still lethargic and tends to stay in the same spot but he has swam about a bit when I came in - although he seems a little skittish and he was so friendly before. Have tested the water and it has gone down from 3 to 2 ammonia, nitrites 0.5 and nitrates between 0 and 5. 

I'm not feeding him today. Do you think another water change today or wait until tomorrow?

I'm setting up my new tank this weekend and will defo be going the fishless cycle route thanks to all the helpful info I have found!!


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Just to add. I had a good look around the tank and on one of the live plants there is some white thread like parts. Its hard to explain I will try to take a photo to upload, but around the back of the plant is what looks like cotton thread in 1-2" pieces attached to the plant. Not sure if this is part of the plant or somethings else.

Sound familiar to anyone?


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## SouthernBelle23 (Mar 24, 2009)

I would go ahead and do a water change today. Might help the ammonia a bit.


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Hey guys.

Just thought Id update. Fish still the same really - swims about for 5 mins or so then hides in the plant. Water change today has brought ammonia down a bit I think (from 2 to 1), nitrites still 0.5 and nitrates 5. I'm hoping with continual water changes there may be an end to this soon.


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Ok - update plus a question.

Having been doing daily water changes (about 25%) and ammonia levels have finally started to drop. Currently they are between 0.25 and 0.5. Nitrites have now started to rise which I expected and are high at 1, with nitrates still around 5.

I just wanted to ask - if I start to become concerned about the health of my fish would you suggest using Prime? I read that it detoxifies nitrites but does it still leave them available for bacteria? I wouldn't want to be holding back the cycling process.

Thanks


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Aquachem, Stability find it online if you can and pick some up. It's some wierd bateria culture that's got all the good ones a tank needs. Helps cycle hella fast. just use as directed.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, i like Prime, even use the 'emergency' 4X dose to help a fish survive cycling. But it can mess with you test kit numbers, so be aware. 

I am confused as to why you think an uncycled 25 gallon tank would any be worse than an uncycled 10 gallon tank. If you put the 10 gallon filter on the 25 gallon tank, you'd move over any amount of cycling you've already accomplished and with more water to dilute ammonia and nitrite, you could go longer between water changes. The thing is to fishless cycle. Once you are cycling with fish, the bigger the tank, the better.


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## Pingu (Apr 16, 2009)

Hey guys.

Sorry I haven't been able to get on here to update recently, work went a little crazy.

Anyway, I'm pleased to say that not long after my last post my 10G tank finished cycling and my little fishy made it through the process (yay!!). I have now had the following readings for 2 weeks:

Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0-5

I appreciate all the advice you guys gave me. I am currently waiting for my 25G to finish cycling (its been set up 3 weeks and I am just starting to get a nitrite spike) and then I'm going to move my goldie over to the larger tank and get him a friend. I will then use the 10G for some Guppys I think.

Thanks again


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

maybe convert the 10 gal into a refugium for your 20gal, or straight out stick a bunch of small lava rocks in there with a powerhead and turn it into a sump for the 20gal.


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