# Treating my Oranda for Ich but still won't go away after three weeks!



## Gemma (Nov 7, 2014)

Hi guys,
My big orange Oranda, called Montgomery, is five years old and I've successfully kept him happy and disease-free, along with my other fish Angelica, a fantail.
No diseases - ever! In five years, I take really good care of the little guys... until four weeks ago I bought them a new plant from a supposedly-good store, and soon, the Oranda showed signs of Ich. (No sign of it on the fantail still!)

Three weeks later and I've been treating with malachite green for three solid weeks and doing 40% water changes every 2nd day as I took out the carbon from the filter and I've upped the heat, I've added a little salt, but Still no signs of the Ich clearing up! The fantail still hasn't caught it yet, but poor Montgomery is looking really sad and he's started showing distress, sitting on the bottom of the tank not moving. He still has a good appetite so he's not totally lethargic but I'm at my wit's end.

How long does it take for it to go away? I've looked at heaps of threads about ich but noone mentions how long it takes! Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks in advance!
:help:


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i don't think it is ich.....and i do not believe that ich would come in on a plant...where are the white dots located ?
if they are around the head and on the gill plates it just may be that it is a male showing breeding signs..or it could be something else entirely......a good picture of the fish would help..
i would turn off the heat and stop the treatment..carp do not care for warm water....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ich's life cycle is temp dependent. So it can take over a month in colder tanks. Buy you should see some improvement or at least it not getting worse. Some ich is med-resistant, you can try a different med. In theory, at least, ich can ride in water. But other diseases can also ride in snails.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

You could also try adding garlic powder to the fishfood. It makes the fish taste bad to the ickies and they drop off. Yes, really.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

First, make sure it's really ick. Breeding tubercules can freak you out if you've never before seen them.


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## Gemma (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks for your replies everyone. The garlic tip is one I've never heard before! interesting.

So it might not be Ick you think? That would make sense and explain why the second fish is perfectly healthy without a single spot. Just it doesn't explain why Monty is so lethargic - unless the Treatment is making him feel so bad. Oh no, am I making it worse for him? Poor little chap. Just it really does look like ick! It looks like a fungus and it behaves like ik - spots appear overnight, last a few days, new ones form. The spots are white and really look like a fungus.

The spots are only on his head - specifically on his wen, at the back where the wen joins the body, and lots around his eyes.

I'd be really greatful if anyone can have a look and let me know what they think.

See photos here...


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## Gemma (Nov 7, 2014)

http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/gem128/media/fish2_zps84ea2ced.jpg.html?filters[user]=141934363&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1 

Not sure if that worked - here's the link to photos


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## Gemma (Nov 7, 2014)

*Update!*

Hi everyone who's reading this because of similar problems with white dots appearing on their Oranda's head. I have been doing lots of research the last few days and thought I'd post what I found here, to help others.

And - thanks everyone here for suggesting to me that this might Not be a fungus or ick after all! Otherwise I might not have done further research and might instead have just kept on medicating and causing them more harm and distress from the medication than good.

This is Not a fungus and isn't Ick as I thought - so I shouldn't have medicated the tank after all, and luckily I found out now because it doesn't do the fish a whole lot of good to medicate unless they definitely need it. 

I found a number of other Oranda owners online with similar white spots appearing _only_ on the wen. It _isn't_ breeding tubercles as some people have helpfully suggested, (thank you!) - it seems that its actually specific to fish with a wen (the head growth.) The cause is: The white patches/spots are due to new growth spurt on the wen. The best thing you can do is keep the water quality as good as possible and let nature take its course.

Here is one of the best explanations i found on another forum (i'll link it here.http://goldfishkeepers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4163).

Xavier a poster on that thread made these notes: 
"The book I have for goldfish is "Fancy Goldfish: A complete guide to care and collecting" by Dr. Erik L. Johnson and Richard E. Hess. This is what it says:

"Orandas and other capped varieties of goldfish sometimes develop white pustules on their headgrowth. Many people are deeply concerned about this condition, and still more will treat the fish with caustic remedies, compounding the fishes' stress. In most cases such capped fish have extensive headgrowth. The fish will usually be well fed on a variety of foods, and well kept in general. Still, there will be small white tufts of 'fluff' nestled deep in the head cap. In some cases, there are as many as four to five little spots of 'infection'.

A microscopic biopsy of these tufts of white material reveals an abundant number of red and white blood cells. There are no fungal elements and usually no bacteria are detected. This common phenomenon lacks a verifiable explanation, but the current theory is that during the most active phases of the development of headgrowth, there is probably a deficiency of blood flow to supply the increasing mass of tissue and the crevices in the headgrowth show this strain in the form of a low-grade infection or even avascular necrosis. Goldfish with headgrowth pimples but that are otherwise doing well should be closely observed but not medicated. Of course check to be certain that your water quality is optimal, but do not medicate for this condition." (page 51)"

You'll be glad to know I stopped the heat and did another 30% water change and put back the carbon on the filter to remove the medication and my fish Already looks better and happier after less than 24 hours! 

I'm posting this result as I hope someone else finds this helpful and Doesn't do what I did - accidently treat my fish for Ick with medication when they didn't need it, thereby causing him distress.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Think of it as football "soccer" boots which aren't cleaned after every match "game".....don't get carried away scrubbing those poor orandas heads now! Water changes and patience are normally enough if it's not too serious, combined with some of the other methods which others have already mentioned.....however drastic measures will need to be executed if the problem rapidly develops! Setting up another tank/ bucket/vat WITHOUT substrate for a few weeks, HEAVILY airated with 50% water changes every day, with filter cleaning every day with tank/bucket/vat water. Even better would be new declorinated water with the same filter, and no substrate. Siphon off the bottom every day.


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