# aquarium salt??



## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

how do u put it into ur aquarium? do u put it in the filter or do u put it directly into ur tank ?? im new so i dont know. thats probably a really stupid question


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Unless you are treating for ich, there's no need to use aquarium salt. However, to use it, dissolve it throughly in treated water before adding to the tank. It must be completely dissolved as the granules will burn the fish's gills.


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## babyalbino (Oct 13, 2006)

the salt says nothing about ich.. all it syas is itreduces stresss and adds electrolytes.. and theres no instudtions on the box at all. it just says howmuch to use for ever 5 gallons..


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

There's no reason to use aquarium salt for FW fish, not ever, other than to treat for ich. They don't need electrolytes added or anything else. I know what the box says and I know what LFS/LPSes try to convince people of. But there really is no good reason to use it for FW fish at all except for parasite treatment like ich or velvet.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'd go ahead and add salt to the goldfish tank. 1 tsp per gallon. Swirl in a glass with tank. then pour into the HOB filter, that should catch any granules whiile the salt dissolves. Also maybe add Seachem South American cichlid salt to the oscar tank, but only if your water in ridiculously soft like mine. Nothing but declor to the tetra tank.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Why would you recommend that she use salt, especially in that manner? Goldfish don't need salt, it does nothing for them, and adding it to the filter is not how it should be added to the tank. Salinity can and does kill beneficial bacteria in high amounts and while it shouldn't be a problem if added to the water, if you add salt directly to the filter, its very likely that it will.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

Boxermom. 

I've used salt in all my freshwater tanks to the tune of about 1 TBS per 10 gal for years now. "most" FW fish benifet from the added salt more than there are any negatives for using it. Some cories and other FW fish are pretty salt intolerant but that's a small %. The "catch phrase selling point" it improves gill function, stimulates slime coat production, and scale fromation but in the real world there are many FW fish that are very salt tolerant and will actually seek it out to a certian dilution over straingt FW if available in their natural habitat. Other FW fish have a large ammount of salts and dissolved solids in thier natural habitat (african rift lakes, tanganyika in particular) and need them to thrive as they have adapted to it over time. So just generalizing and saying no salt in any FW doesn't quite fit. I'd reccomend against salt for cories and a limited "short list" of FW fish but as a whole msot would show some benifet of 1 to 2 Tsp and up to 1 TBS of salt (some even more) but only after researching the natural habitat for that species. "Tank raised" species don't always negate this need either as they have adapted to thier natural waters over many many years centuries in some cases and may have only been tank raised for the last few generations and therefore still have that adaptation "built in"


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

babyalbino, 
I normally disolve my salts in a pitcure of slightly warmer water than my tank water. This adds "holding capicity" to the water in the picture and allows it to dissolve more of the salt faster without really being warm enough to change the overall temp of the tank. This has work well for me at concentrations up to 2 TBS per 10 gal when treating ick then I usually maintain the 1+/- TBS of the cichlid lake salt that my fish Thrive in in my home and in their natural enviroment. It's always best to look at the natural habitats the fish you keep come from ... there are several websites that have water analysis from many of the tribuitaries around the world that will allow you to look at what's actually in the water compisition they live in in the wild. Then try and replicate that as closely as possible in your own home enviroment. 

animals (humans included) will actuall eat or crave dirt if they don't get the minerals their bodies need to maintain ballance in thier bodies. It's not like your fish can jump out and run over to the salt mine and bring back just what they want. AND they'll LIVE without any of it just as most FW fish will "live" in 7.0 ph. Now thriving is a diffrent story


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

joe kool said:


> Boxermom.
> 
> I've used salt in all my freshwater tanks to the tune of about 1 TBS per 10 gal for years now. "most" FW fish benifet from the added salt more than there are any negatives for using it. Some cories and other FW fish are pretty salt intolerant but that's a small %. The "catch phrase selling point" it improves gill function, stimulates slime coat production, and scale fromation but in the real world there are many FW fish that are very salt tolerant and will actually seek it out to a certian dilution over straingt FW if available in their natural habitat. Other FW fish have a large ammount of salts and dissolved solids in thier natural habitat (african rift lakes, tanganyika in particular) and need them to thrive as they have adapted to it over time. So just generalizing and saying no salt in any FW doesn't quite fit. I'd reccomend against salt for cories and a limited "short list" of FW fish but as a whole msot would show some benifet of 1 to 2 Tsp and up to 1 TBS of salt (some even more) but only after researching the natural habitat for that species. "Tank raised" species don't always negate this need either as they have adapted to thier natural waters over many many years centuries in some cases and may have only been tank raised for the last few generations and therefore still have that adaptation "built in"


I think im going to have to side with Boxermom on this one. Of course most fish are tolerant of dissolved salts in the aquarium water, but why add it if its not neccessary? Also like she said, adding it straight into an HOB filter can cause the beneficial bacteria to die since your adding a largely hypertonic solution directly into their colonies. She is also right when she said that whatever is on the box of the aquarium salt cant be taken literally nor be taken in the context that the manufacturer states. They base their "guarantees" on unproven myths, which many are in-fact, disproved myths. 
Also when people say that fish "benefit" from salt applications, it is almost always taken out of context. Unless your putting your fish in pure distilled or RO water then your fish are most probably doing fine. There are dissolved salts in most tap water supplys, there is no need to add more.

In many cases adding salt may not be harmful, but if its unnecessary then dont add it! Your fish will do fine without it. There will be no soothing effect since there is no pain to soothe to begin with!! The salt addition is usually used for treating ich, but the "guarantees" of it doing other things are mostly empty promises. 
There are some good effects of aquarium salt in condtions that contain high nitrite levels, but thats about it. 
The "magical powers" of salt that people speak of and its "magical" benefits to the aquarium setting is nothing but empty rhetoric.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

harif87 said:


> I think im going to have to side with Boxermom on this one. Of course most fish are tolerant of dissolved salts in the aquarium water, but why add it if its not neccessary? Also like she said, adding it straight into an HOB filter can cause the beneficial bacteria to die since your adding a largely hypertonic solution directly into their colonies. She is also right when she said that whatever is on the box of the aquarium salt cant be taken literally nor be taken in the context that the manufacturer states. They base their "guarantees" on unproven myths, which many are in-fact, disproved myths.
> Also when people say that fish "benefit" from salt applications, it is almost always taken out of context. Unless your putting your fish in pure distilled or RO water then your fish are most probably doing fine. There are dissolved salts in most tap water supplys, there is no need to add more.
> 
> In many cases adding salt may not be harmful, but if its unnecessary then dont add it! Your fish will do fine without it. There will be no soothing effect since there is no pain to soothe to begin with!! The salt addition is usually used for treating ich, but the "guarantees" of it doing other things are mostly empty promises.
> ...


So I guess all of us rift lake cichlid folks are just FOS when it comes to adding the salt (and trace elements) to our aquariums. The HABITAT the particular fish has NOTHING to do with what you need to do or not do with your tank water ... just use whatever comes out of the tap right?

I as said in my prievous post most FW fish WILL "survive" on pure water at 7.0 ph ... Thriving and acutally living for a prolonged duration is another story. You will "survive" in Africa ... Airconditioning will make it alot more tolerable and food and water you are used to eating and drinking will keep you from gettin the hershey squirts but you'll survive. 

RESEARCH your fish! plane and simple. learn thier habitats and replicate it as closely as you can. You'll NEVER go wrong doing that no matter what anyone else says. I'm not saying go break a thermometer to get the mercury content or lead that MAN has introduced into the waterways over the recent history (past 50 to 100 years) BUT I think you have a pretty good idea what I'm trying to say.

It's a little more than "just poor it outa the ole tap there and git'er done" like some would suggest "IF" you want to cater to your fishes needs like it sounds like you do. 

I too have read many a theory on the pro's and con's of salt in FW and some of the heated battles on both fronts as well as some theorys that have been proported but be viable studies that have turned out to be just a hair above a basement lab study to full on labratory papers on this subject. Again everyone has ways that work for them and opinions are like that hole in your rear ... everybody has one. My reccomendation that this person actually look at her fishes habitat and go from there is much more sound than don't use salt or just use the tap! 

From now on all people MUST only drink water no carbinated drinks ... they're not good for you after all and your body doesn't "need" carbonation or use regular gasoline all cars will "run" on it ... some of the higher compression sport cars will just ping and run like crap.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> From now on all people MUST only drink water no carbinated drinks ... they're not good for you after all and your body doesn't "need" carbonation or use regular gasoline all cars will "run" on it ... some of the higher compression sport cars will just ping and run like crap.


Huh?

I would expect that certain types of fish would benefit from the addition of salt and other minerals, surely. But I have not used salt other than to treat ich, because my fish don't need it. There is some salt and other trace minerals in tap water... I don't need to add more. It would be more like providing air-conditionning to someone who lives in a temperature region where it never gets hotter than 85F, to use your analogy.


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

No need to get defensive Joe. Seriously, were just talking here, like you said we all have opinions, you dont have to get defensive when you hear someone elses opinion.

First off, i want to clear up the fact that you think my point was "just toss some fish into some tap water and youll be dandy". All i said was that with particular fish you dont need to add salt since tap water tends to have dissolved salts already present. I didnt say that all the salt you will ever need is in tap water, nor did i imply it. Most FW do fine without the addition of salt to the aquarium. If salt is not added, with most fish, you wont see signs of stress due to lack of salt in the water. Some fish do benefit from the addition of salt, such as livebearers since theyre habitats tend to range between areas of brackish nature and areas of freshwater natures. Generally the natural habitat of most FW fish dont contain that much salt which is why i dont see salt additions as neccessary.

Secondly i wanted to mention that regular aquarium salt wont cut it for mimicing conditions for fish who need salt additives. So if your adding aquarium salt to your aquarium, i would tell you that if you want to recreate the conditions these fish live in, then you wouldnt be doing much.


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## Moses (Aug 21, 2006)

babyalbino said:


> how do u put it into ur aquarium? do u put it in the filter or do u put it directly into ur tank ?? im new so i dont know. thats probably a really stupid question


Just disolve it in some water and slowly add to your aquarium. Not a stupid question. The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked :fish:


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

joe kool said:


> ..."most" FW fish benifet from the added salt more than there are any negatives for using it. ... The "catch phrase selling point" it improves gill function, stimulates slime coat production, and scale fromation but in the real world there are many FW fish that are very salt tolerant and will actually seek it out to a certian dilution over straingt FW if available in their natural habitat. ...


I would very much like to see any scientific research you have to back up any of the above comments. Much of what you just touted is myth which is passed on from mouth-to-mouth but has little scientific proof to back it up. If you have the data, please share it.

I would like to refer you to several articles from scientists regarding the use of salt in aquaria to assist in your search for data.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/salt.html
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

Zoe said:


> Huh?
> 
> I would expect that certain types of fish would benefit from the addition of salt and other minerals, surely. But I have not used salt other than to treat ich, because my fish don't need it. There is some salt and other trace minerals in tap water... I don't need to add more. It would be more like providing air-conditionning to someone who lives in a temperature region where it never gets hotter than 85F, to use your analogy.


not so much ... the ammout of salt in municiple supply isn't what most think AND alot of municiple water is going to RO treatment facilities even my small city here is switching to an RO system sometime this fall/ next spring time frame due to the water conditions of the local tributary. Once this starts flowing and a few months/maybe longer to wash out the sediments in the pipe the only dissolved solids in the water will be what's built up on the lining of the pipes from the water treatment facility to your house. I wasn't advocating just "aquarium salt" or "pond salt" as a salt additive but more of a place to start as some LFS's or areas don't get into the specialized salts which would have more of the trace elements that would go further to replicating their habitat. 

harif87
another case of the written word not being able to carry inflection and body language. I wasn't defensive, just getting a point across  I guess more smilie faces were in order. I guess I do get a little excited when someone says its "actually bad" to do something I've done for 15+ years of mt 20 or so fish keeping years. That I have researched and do know that the fish I keep are better off with the additive than without. Atleast their activity, coloration and ammount of breeding would leave me to believe they are compaired to before I used these items. One thing I have learned is that many people do things many diffrent ways and most all that have done it for a while with any degree of success are pretty stubborn and set in their ways. I 'm an exception (as alot of folks on this forum are  ) as I'm continually looking for ways to make things better for my aquatic friends and make them as comfortable as possible. If studies showed that african cichlids actually preferred and did better in a ph or 6 and soft pur RO water I'd start the transition tomorrow to have it fully chruned over in a couple months to that condition. Although hardly anything is impossible so I've come to learn it's highly improbable that decades of evolution could be overcome in a home aquarium with a degree of success.

I still stand on my advice of research ... after that remember everything in moderation. You wouldn't want someone to pour a cup of sugar down your throat but your do it your self if it's descuised as koolaid or ice cream  don't put straight salt directly into a filter or directly into your tank for that matter (I have in a rush but not more than a TBS or so at a time for the whole tank) make sure your filters are on high (if you turn them down for feeding) and your circulation is on max than add it as that dilutes it as quickly as possible. 

A note that has been overlooked:
only add salt/trace elements to the water during a water change and only in the ammount of water changed ( 50% water change on a 55 you should add about 25 gal worth of salt not a full 55 gal measurment). also do not add salt when just topping off the tank as the salt does not evaporate. and you should only start your water change from a full tank to keep measurments right (if you always wait until the water is about 3 or 4 " low in a 48" tank that's in the neighbor hood of 15 -20 gal of salt that is more highly concentrated than at full capacity, do a partial water change in this condition and add a full measurement for the full ammount of water added back to the tank and your now about 10 ot 15% over conentrated 3 or 4 water changes like that and you could run into some equalibrium problems and death to your less salt tolerant critters. Only add salt for water you drain from the tank once you do your initial dosing. The easiest way to make sure it to always start your water changes from a full tank


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

Boxermom said:


> I would very much like to see any scientific research you have to back up any of the above comments. Much of what you just touted is myth which is passed on from mouth-to-mouth but has little scientific proof to back it up. If you have the data, please share it.
> 
> I would like to refer you to several articles from scientists regarding the use of salt in aquaria to assist in your search for data.
> http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/salt.html
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml


as harif87 said earlier live bearers will seek more brackish water if available. The "catch phrase" I mentioned was just that ... the mythical "tonic" that alot of the salt manufacturers would have you believe. I have read both articles in great depth and they saw no benifet ... along with that no consequense except for the salt sensitive species. 

Personally I was speaking from a rift lake hobbiest stand point and that fact has been run to ground and proven that the rift lake (tanganyikan and malawian more so than victorian) benifet from the salt and trace elements added to the water by products such as "cichlid lake salt" and the substraits we choose such as crushed coral or argonite of some sort and decorations we add such as holey rock and lace roch which will raish KH and PH of the water they are put in. We seek these out particularly for this trait. 

At worse she wastes her money on something relatively un needed and many opinions, at best if used as directed on the box she stands a lower chance of getting ich breakout in her tank nad "possibly" has a minor benifet so "A" fish in her tank. I know I like my carbonated drinks


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

My catch phrase is "your fish, your tanks, do what you want." All I can do is provide as much accurate information as I can. Whether you believe it or not is not up to me. I don't really care one way or the other. babyalbino has been given the information she needs and can now begin researching on her own if she chooses to do so.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

saying no salt for any FW isn't accurate ... that was my point from the beginning


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Then I would suggest you read more carefully before you begin to tirade. Not once did I ever say "_no salt for any FW_." What I said was "There's no reason to use *aquarium salt* for FW fish" and I stand by that statement. And for the fish she has, which this thread was about, she does not need ANY type of salt and I recommend against it unless she is treating for ich.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

My bad ... I though I saw that she kept oscars ... to which they have a south amreican "salt" (which contains very little actual sodium) but still salt non the less and again not required. Alot of folks generalize "aquarium salt" as by definition ... salt used in an aquarium and not just the milk carton (usually) with the cartoon fish on it you see at the LFS. again my bad for not being more specific or in this case broad in stating salt used in aquariums not a brandname as it may be.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

And ... if you whole hearted believe that a new aquarist wouldn't read your statement "Unless you are treating for ich, there's no need to use aquarium salt." and read it as saying "don't use salt in fresh water aquariums" then I apologize for correcting you. I how ever figured a person new to the hobby might read it that way and need an alternate view of the correct “salt” or additives to use or at least be steered in the direction or researching the habitats form which they came.

JC


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## harif87 (Jun 5, 2006)

In conclusion....if you find that you do need to use salt then it is not reccommended to use the "aquarium salt" as sold in the "milk cartons" since those lack certain elements of the actual salt found in natural settings. Best bet is to go with marine salt since they contain trace elements as welll as neccessary carbonates and cations. Be aware though, that you pH will rise to about 8.0-8.5 and will be buffered in that regieon. So if you have soft-acidic water, and your fish dont really need the salt i would advise against adding marine salt.

I would say that that would be a semi-productive post, dont you think  hehe.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I confess I base my golfish opinion of "word of mouth", I was alway told that goldfish keepers added salf to their water, even to point of buying muliple 50lb bags for ponds. I have discovered the usefulness of cichlid salts the hard way, by moving from an area of liquid limestone to rainwater tap water. My fish are much happier at the proper TDS level and my pH swings have gone away with proper buffering. Seachem has liquid products that have the proper dosage on the label and the proper propotion in the bottle. I only use aquarium salt with mollies and guppies, with (poor success) and brine shrimp eggs. I guess sea salt would be beter. I agree with you that "all fish need salt" is a myth, but I honestly remembered goldfish being an exception.


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