# Help picking out a filter?



## v-paw

For my 20 gallon planted tank, it's current filter is a HOB and I just put in floss instead of carbon. I fill the water up higher to keep the flow from disturbing the plants. I mostly have bottle dwellers living in it, sand substrate, Cory cats, AFD's , mystery snail, otto, and my swimmers are a platty (going to add 2 more when I get the 30 gallon goldfish to a pond) and a molly(who will be moving to the 30) 

I was thinking a canister filter? Mine worked for a long time, but it's making horrible noises now and just it's so efficient, plus it's the one that came with the tank. Any recommendations?


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## lohachata

"bottle dwellers" first time in 40 years that i have heard that term...is this some sort of new species?
like i always say..i am constantly learning new things....
i would either fix the old canister or get a new one...


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## v-paw

lohachata said:


> "bottle dwellers" first time in 40 years that i have heard that term...is this some sort of new species?
> i would either fix the old canister or get a new one...


Haha, I don't have a canister I have an HOB. Ya, I didn't know what else to call them XD


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## Ice

I hate canister filters. They don't keep the tank clean. Instead I got a 4-stage Aqueon Power Quite 20 HOB filter. Works far better than a canister filter.


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## emc7

Canister filters are usually quieter than HOBs. But few people put them on 20s, they take up space if you don't have a stand to hide them under. The eheims are the quietest and favored by planted tank people, but they are very pricey in the US. zoomed makes some little ones for turtle tanks that work fine for fish and are more affordable. canisters don't warn your when they are dirty or clogged, so you have to put cleaning on your schedule and stick to it.


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## v-paw

emc7 said:


> Canister filters are usually quieter than HOBs. But few people put them on 20s, they take up space if you don't have a stand to hide them under. The eheims are the quietest and favored by planted tank people, but they are very pricey in the US. zoomed makes some little ones for turtle tanks that work fine for fish and are more affordable. canisters don't warn your when they are dirty or clogged, so you have to put cleaning on your schedule and stick to it.


I do have a stand, but isn't a canister recommended for planted? What's a good one for HOB then? This one was quiet before, I think it's just somewhat broken.


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## toddnbecka

Most likely either the impeller or the shaft is worn, replacement part/s would be the easiest option. If you really want a canister for a 20 I'd recommend an Eheim classic series, they're great in the long haul for reliability if somewhat less convenient when cleaning.


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## emc7

Canisters have lower flow than HOBs and lower surface/air interfaces. This makes your plants blow around/get stuck to the intake less and the nitrate build-up from an uncleaned filter is not as much of an issue in a heavily planted tank. But I think the main planted tank preference for canister is the idea that CO2 will stay in the water longer, allowing you to use less than if you had a nice waterfall HOB.

I agree than many filters can be successfully rehabbed by a new impeller and/or seals. Buy all the gaskets, the impeller, and swap them out and try it. If it is still loud, but working, sell it cheap to aquarist with a basement fishroom.


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## v-paw

But aren't the filters that come with the tank not so great? I don't wanna spend money on new parts if it won't work anyways. It doesn't even have a bio wheel


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## emc7

Depends on the maker of the tank. IME, most of the cheap kit filters are both cheap and undersized, but there are pricier kits. But I am too cheap to waste a working filter. For instance I would take a filter off a 55 kit and put on a 30 long in the basement and get a nicer fitler for upstairs.


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## lohachata

i have had a few filters with biowheels...i was not impressed...after awhile the wheels would stop turning so they no longer did their job...the only HOB filters that i use are the aquaclears...i have a bunch of them but am not using them right now...i also have a bunch of canister filters and am not using them either...heck ; my electric bill is already over $350 a month...
i also never pay attention to the size of tank a filter is "rated" for...i only use the GPH rating.......if it's a 30 gallon tank i will look for a 300 GPH filter...


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## v-paw

Alright, so I guess no canister.. Any specific things I should know? Models? Rating I should learn?


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## emc7

I would also go with 10X turnover rate, or 200 gph for a 20. Many planted people would use less, but they also stock really lightly. What are all your requirements. Does it need to be super quiet? (like a tank in a bedroom). Do you use CO2? Will there be another filter (with only one filter, you want 2 pieces of media). IMO bio-wheels do an okay job, but they are high in evaporation and take up a lot of space on a tank and generate white crust if you use them in hard water. I've always liked Marinelands filters for being decent as well as cheap, but my latest penguin and emperors have gotten loud on me, so I won't recommend buying a new one. I would suggest aquaclear. They are overpriced, but you don't have to buy cartridges. The "quiet-flow" filters have mixed reviews, but they are quieter because the pump is in the tank rather than behind it (less buzzing) and somewhat cheaper than aquaclears..

A filter's effectiveness is generally based on the flow rate x the amount of media. So bigger box needs less flow. The main purpose of filter is biological (make nitrate), but floss, sponges, and pads also do mechanical filtration (catch the loose crap), carbon and special media like ion exchange resins do "chemical filtration" pulling out specific molecules. You can add on Uv-lights or heaters to some filters (mostly canisters) and micron filtration is for catching really fine stuff that might otherwise cloud your water. How much of each you need really depends on fish, stocking, feeding habits, additives and on and on. 

But, IMO, a basic filter that does some mechanical (catch poop and uneaten food) and a lot of biological filtration is good enough. The rest you do with water changes. Carbon has its uses, but, by and large, isn't a necessity, especially changing it every month as most makers recommend.


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## v-paw

emc7 said:


> I would also go with 10X turnover rate, or 200 gph for a 20. Many planted people would use less, but they also stock really lightly. What are all your requirements. Does it need to be super quiet? (like a tank in a bedroom). Do you use CO2? Will there be another filter (with only one filter, you want 2 pieces of media). IMO bio-wheels do an okay job, but they are high in evaporation and take up a lot of space on a tank and generate white crust if you use them in hard water. I've always liked Marinelands filters for being decent as well as cheap, but my latest penguin and emperors have gotten loud on me, so I won't recommend buying a new one. I would suggest aquaclear. They are overpriced, but you don't have to buy cartridges. The "quiet-flow" filters have mixed reviews, but they are quieter because the pump is in the tank rather than behind it (less buzzing) and somewhat cheaper than aquaclears..
> 
> A filter's effectiveness is generally based on the flow rate x the amount of media. So bigger box needs less flow. The main purpose of filter is biological (make nitrate), but floss, sponges, and pads also do mechanical filtration (catch the loose crap), carbon and special media like ion exchange resins do "chemical filtration" pulling out specific molecules. You can add on Uv-lights or heaters to some filters (mostly canisters) and micron filtration is for catching really fine stuff that might otherwise cloud your water. How much of each you need really depends on fish, stocking, feeding habits, additives and on and on.
> 
> But, IMO, a basic filter that does some mechanical (catch poop and uneaten food) and a lot of biological filtration is good enough. The rest you do with water changes. Carbon has its uses, but, by and large, isn't a necessity, especially changing it every month as most makers recommend.


Requirements:
It is in my bedroom and by my dwarf hamster (who don't like noise) so quiet is much preferred.

I have some liquid CO2 but I don't use it because of the ADF's and I just use floss instead of carbon to keep more in, no bubbles.

No other filters on this tank, I have Cory catfish if that counts XD

Smaller flow/lower as to prevent plant disturbance and keep oxygen levels in check.

Not carbon hopefully.

Doesn't have to get food since I have so many bottom feeders, but poop would be nice. I do weekly water changes of about 25% sometimes 30%


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## emc7

I would likely do an in-the-tank filter such a large sponge with a powerhead. You'd hide it behind your biggest plant and squeeze it out into the waste-water each week at water change time. 

Most HOBs do the waterfall thing and that does increase oxygen in water (good for fish) and let CO2 out. If you decide to go HOB, I'd say try an aquaclear.

Canisters are the most expensive, but also the quietest. I don't know anything about small canisters (less than 55 gallons), but if you have the $, I think most plant nuts would get an eheim or a knockoff of an eheim.


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## v-paw

emc7 said:


> I would likely do an in-the-tank filter such a large sponge with a powerhead. You'd hide it behind your biggest plant and squeeze it out into the waste-water each week at water change time.
> 
> Most HOBs do the waterfall thing and that does increase oxygen in water (good for fish) and let CO2 out. If you decide to go HOB, I'd say try an aquaclear.
> 
> Canisters are the most expensive, but also the quietest. I don't know anything about small canisters (less than 55 gallons), but if you have the $, I think most plant nuts would get an eheim or a knockoff of an eheim.


Would a sponge filter be powerful enough? I may eventually possably have more fish or less plants or something, and I'd still want it to work.


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## TheJakeM

You just need the right kind of sponge filter. The make them for a lot of tank sizes. They can even be pretty small. The one I use in my 2.5 gallon guppy fry tank is rated for ten gallons, yet is actually a little less than 2 inches across.


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## lohachata

we will soon have almost 100 tanks set up in our basement , from 2.5-135 gallons..almost all of them are using sponge filters....those that aren't , are using undergravel filters......


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## v-paw

Isn't it considered low tech? I bet they're less expensive? If they're cheap I might try it out.


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## TheJakeM

The one I mentioned was 2.99 at All Pets Club. That's really cheap, you're probably looking at 10-20 dollars for yours. I bought several of them when I had the chance.


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## v-paw

TheJakeM said:


> The one I mentioned was 2.99 at All Pets Club. That's really cheap, you're probably looking at 10-20 dollars for yours. I bought several of them when I had the chance.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'll go as high as $45 if it's really good  but how do they do in comparison to HOB or canister?


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## emc7

Sponge filters are cheap ($2-10), running them isn't alway. If you run one on a power head the pump can cost from $10-40 for each. Same for an air-pump But the more you have, the cheaper they get. A central air pump for a few hundred dollars can run hundreds of sponge filters in dozens of tanks. Sponges are also cheaper when you buy in bulk. They are low tech. But in the keep it simple stupid sense. Far less can go wrong and easy to fix/replace parts. Undergravel filters are also cheap and simple, but IMO, much more effort to maintain.

There is a high-end variation the discus people use. A wall of sponge keep sfish away from pump and heater and filters the whole tank.


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## TheJakeM

The air pump you need for a 20 gallon sponge filter should be cheap. They work better than HOBs for me, but I've never had a canister. They are also basically silent, especially if you muffle the air pump with a t-shirt or towel. 


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## v-paw

Oh, I have an air pump but I took it out of that tank since I don't want added oxygen. And I can't do under gravel because it's sand substrate.


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## TheJakeM

If you've already got an air pump I'd definitely go with a sponge filter. 


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## v-paw

But don't sponge filters have low circulation?


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## TheJakeM

Do you mean water turn over rate or the actual current of the tank? As far as I know there isn't an exact way to measure the turnover rate of the sponge filters, but if you look closely you will see the small particles in the water moving towards the filter. As for the current in the tank, there won't be much of one at all, through it will oxygenate the water.


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## emc7

For a 20, I would use a power head and 1 sponge or 2 sponge filters with air.


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## v-paw

Well I. Guess since they're so cheap, I could try Em out.


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## v-paw

I tried two fish stores today (petco and petsmart) neither had sponge filters, the employees didn't even know what they were XD


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## emc7

No profit margin. You can sometimes find the Lee's in chain stores or wal-mart. I like the ATI better. I haven't tried the Deep Blue or the Azoo or SeaPora but they look good, like ATI clones. Swiss tropicals makes them with the poret foam that is supposed to last a lot longer. Most sponge filters will need a replacement sponge in about a decade. jehmco sell ATI ones with powerheads.


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## toddnbecka

Check out kensfish.com for sponge filters, I usually grab a couple more when I order NLS pellets or flakes from there to combine shipping. They have the best prices I've found anyway.


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## TheJakeM

I've gotten most of mine on eBay and Amazon. The all pets club was the only store I'd found carrying them.


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## v-paw

Ok, in that case. What's the best brand? 

And I'm still confused, doesn't it have bubbles? So it's got the air stone effect? Isn't that something I wouldn't want?mfor a planted tank anyways.


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## TheJakeM

It does have a air stone affect. As for brands, they don't really matter to me, a sponge filter is so simple it's hard to mess one up. I'm fond of the ones that include extra bio-filtration in the form of pebbles and the like. I'll post some pictures for you once I get home today.


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## lohachata

we have plants in almost all of our tanks.....all tanks have filtration and aeration.. plants do just fine with it...


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## v-paw

lohachata said:


> we have plants in almost all of our tanks.....all tanks have filtration and aeration.. plants do just fine with it...


But then there are people that have a CO2 set up...


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## lohachata

yep..there sure are...but then again , there are people with Hummers that have absolutely no use for them....lol


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## TheJakeM

First is an aquatop caf-10 for up to ten gallons, it's small but works very well with 2.5 gallons of water. The second is in my 5 gallon, I don't know the brand but I know it's probably meant for a much larger tank. The water is much clearer than when I used a HOB filter.


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## v-paw

TheJakeM said:


> View attachment 11353
> View attachment 11361
> 
> 
> First is an aquatop caf-10 for up to ten gallons, it's small but works very well with 2.5 gallons of water. The second is in my 5 gallon, I don't know the brand but I know it's probably meant for a much larger tank. The water is much clearer than when I used a HOB filter.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The water looks really clear! So... Is it better to get a more powerful filter than is usually meant for your tank? What would a 20 need?


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## TheJakeM

I always over filter, the filtration they are listed at is the most they could go if you stocked your tank just the right way. If you want more fish you should over filter.


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## lohachata

it is far better to overfilter than it is to underfilter or filter just enough..
i never use tank ratings,i go by GPH....i try to get as close to 10x volume as possible relative to tank stocking..


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## v-paw

But since I don't have that many fish, should I just do the normal rating? Should I get two? So that my 30 gallon gets more filteratioN?


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## TheJakeM

I would get 2 filters rated for 15 gallons for the twenty, one on each side of the tank. You could always add more to the 30 gallon too.


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## v-paw

TheJakeM said:


> I would get 2 filters rated for 15 gallons for the twenty, one on each side of the tank. You could always add more to the 30 gallon too.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The air pump's rated 20 though, does that matter?


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## TheJakeM

Yeah, that does matter, with an air pump rated 20, a sponge meant for 50 gallons would only work up to 20 gallons. 


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## lohachata

actually jake i have to disagree..an airpump rated for a 20 gallon tank will drive a sponge filter rated for almost any size tank..sponge filters are rated by the size of the sponge..i have several sizes of sponge filters and the lift tubes and such are almost all the same size...but tank depth is also a factor..a 20 gallon tank can range from 12"-21"...some airpumps just don't have enough PSI to pump a deep tank..


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## TheJakeM

Ok, not what I thought. But I like learning new things.


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## v-paw

lohachata said:


> actually jake i have to disagree..an airpump rated for a 20 gallon tank will drive a sponge filter rated for almost any size tank..sponge filters are rated by the size of the sponge..i have several sizes of sponge filters and the lift tubes and such are almost all the same size...but tank depth is also a factor..a 20 gallon tank can range from 12"-21"...some airpumps just don't have enough PSI to pump a deep tank..


That's awesome! Would it be able to power more than one? Like strong enough?



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## lohachata

it is possible but i don't think it would be quite enough..it depends on how strong the actual airflow is and also the volume....as pumps get older they tend to lose a bit...


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## v-paw

Alright I received it today. It's bigger than I though it'd be! I soaked it in tank water for maybe half an hour and then attached the air pump. It seems to be sitting there. Not sure if it's doing anything... I left my HoB filter on for about an hour with both running, now the HOB is off and I'm seeing how it goes overnight. What about the beneficial bacteria? Doesn't the old filter have it all? I took some of the floss out and put it by the sponge filter, so it can get some colonies started. The sand doesn't hold any, does it?


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## TheJakeM

Sand holds bb, any surface in your tank does. The filter just holds most of it. Leaving some floss in there is a good idea. But you won't need it for long.


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## v-paw

That's good to know, also aren't you supposed to change out the sponge every 6 weeks or something? Do I have to do it that often? And won't all the bb be gone after that?


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## emc7

You don't replace the sponge, just squeeze it out into the waste water with each water change. If its really nasty, rinse in the sink.


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## TheJakeM

Yeah, but don't squeeze too hard, you want to keep most of the bb.


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## v-paw

That's better. I realize now you guys said power head, not air pump. Does it make much of a differance?


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## TheJakeM

I think they both do basically the same thing right? Push air through a tube. I could be wrong though.


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## emc7

air-pumps pump air, "power-heads" pump water. Powerhead is just an aquarium equipment term for a small submersible water pump. They usually have have a round gridded intake to keep stuff out that will fit nicely in a ATI sponge filter or UG filter upright tube. They usually have a 90 degree bend to a output that you can aim at the surface of the water to aerate the tank and some suction cup device to hold it to the side wall of an aquarium. 

Air pumped into sponge filter rises to the top of the tank and it draws water with it through the filter. Power-heads directed pull the water by spinning an impeller. You can get a stronger flow with a powerhead of the right size than an air-line. That is why I use more filters with air than with powerheads. You can run many sponge filters with a strong air-pump and good valves, but only filter per powerhead. Powerheads eliminate that annoying "blub blub blub" sound, but they are more expensives, need a place to each one in, and can warm the water. I use both. Central air-pump in the basement for many small tanks. Powerheads upstairs and in the biggest tanks.


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## TheJakeM

I was wrong then, thanks for the info.


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