# Used diatom filter?



## maxpayne_lhp

Hi - I was offered a good deal to buy a used diatom filter. I have a question: What should i be cautious about when buying a used diatom filter? I did some research and it looks like it relies of a culture of diatoms - I would have to guess that the device needs maintenance to keep the culture alive?And Is there anyway I can test and see if the device actually works on the spot? 

Thanks - I will try to figure out what model they are trying to sell me.


----------



## emc7

Usually these filters use dead diatoms. You buy 'diatomaceaous earth" (look it up at a hardware store) as a micron filter media. Its a very fine powder. The skeletons of the diatoms snag most anything and 'polish' the water by taking out algae, particles, even parasites that are in the water. The trick is to keep the powder in the filter, not in the tank. Since very fine filters tend to clog easily, its not a filter for long-term use. Rather, use it for occasional gravel washing. In some places DE is getting expensive or hard-to-find.

The Vortex Diatom brand power filters (they come in 2 sizes D-1, & XL) is an old tech with a motor you can actually oil (not encased in epoxy), a glass jar (easily replaced), and a filter insert which is kind of like a vacuum bag in that it has hose connectors attached to it. They were the first filters I know of to have valves in the hose line. For a used one, make sure the motor runs, the cord is intact with a good plug, check the filter insert for holes and tears esp where the connectors are. Make sure the filter seats on the jar, gaskets intact and flexible. Look for a cracked head. Even a fine crack can make it leak. Make sure the hoses and valve are present and flexible or factor in replacement cost. IMO they were an amazing innovation for their time and the fact that they are still making them is a testament to their usefulness. However, you now have other options. The marineland magnum 350 has a micron filter cartridge. Its motor is weaker than the diatom XL, and the cartridge clogs more easily, but the micron filter is easier to use than messing with diatomaceous earth and you can put in a different media and run it full-time. And if you want to use diatomaceous earth (DE) you can use it with the micron filter for extra fine polishing. 

As for testing a diatom filter, put some filter powder (DE) in a 5 gallon bucket full of water. It should be instant milk. Now put the intake and outtake of the filter in the bucket and turn it on. It should clear the water quickly and the powder should adhere to the thing in the jar in an even white layer and no water should leak from the motor. 

Now there a few other things called diatom filters. Whisper makes one that is like a hang on back with a sealed bag of DE. 

I always thought the using the Diatom XL was a bit of a PITA, but you will get absolute perfect water clarity (assuming you don't fill the tank with DE and carbon powder). Even if you get the powder in the tank, the filter will usually collect it if you let it run.

Compare the price to ones on e-bay. Since they last a long time, a lot of these were made over the last 20 years.


----------



## lohachata

vortex diatom filters are the absolute best..nothing touches them for their purpose..they will filter particles down to 0.0004"(if i remember correctly)... which means that they will even filter out ich from an infected tank....you can get diatomacious earth really cheap if you buy a big bag from your local swimming pool supply store....

but...........................................................

they are a little bit of a pain as emc said........ also.... they are not meant to use like a canister or HOB type filter... as a permanent filter...but they will make your water so clear that you will think it isn't there.... i do believe that they are still made....i have an old one that recently died..i bought it in 1977...replaced a few jars..but that was easy...it used 1 quart mason jars....back then ; there was no XL model... i will be buying a new one soon....


----------



## maxpayne_lhp

K thanks folks - I will take a look at it tonight and run a quick test. 



> As for testing a diatom filter, put some filter powder (DE) in a 5 gallon bucket full of water. It should be instant milk. Now put the intake and outtake of the filter in the bucket and turn it on. It should clear the water quickly and the powder should adhere to the thing in the jar in an even white layer and no water should leak from the motor.


I can use fluorite dust to test to right? 



> they are a little bit of a pain as emc said........ also.... they are not meant to use like a canister or HOB type filter...


I plan to use it complementary probably once a week when i do partial wc etc. but soon I m sure I don't need to use it as much.

Thanks!

NN


----------



## maxpayne_lhp

Update: It's a Vortex Diatom Filter Model D-1


----------



## emc7

fine powdered carbon should work too.


----------



## emc7

The XL uses a gallon jar. It will do a 55 in a couple of hours. I think the worst part is cleaning the reusable filter in the sink. Also best not to leave them unattended. we had a few floods this way (hoses popping off the valve).


----------



## lohachata

they make a carbon powder for the diatom..i am sure it is a bit pricey as the earth is..
just checked amazon.com........the D1 is selling for $114..... the XL was $138....


----------



## COM

Isn't this largely a technology that has been abandoned due to the PITA factor of maintenance?


----------



## emc7

They aren't sold in mainstream pet store, but you can still get them and the parts. Old tech doesn't go away, it just gets made overseas. I don't use them anymore (I use a magnum 350 with a micron filter that you just soak in bleach for a week), but I won't deny they work. Something doesn't stop working just because there is new stuff on the market. Often the magnum's filter will clog and it will take me 3 filters for one tank. The diatom XL could usually do 3 or 4 big tanks before it needed to be emptied and cleaned. 

One caveat. Don't let them sit, clean them right away after you turn it off (or they will stink) and if you do let them sit, don't put them back on a tank before you clean them.


----------



## maxpayne_lhp

lohachata said:


> they make a carbon powder for the diatom..i am sure it is a bit pricey as the earth is..
> just checked amazon.com........the D1 is selling for $114..... the XL was $138....


They are offering for $25 

I'll check if it works.

And yeah I will probably run it once a week at this stage, then clean it right away.


----------



## lohachata

$25 is an awesome bargain...
older things are better because they are built better...almost everything made today is produced as cheaply as possible... the whole idea today is to make something that will break down after a short time so the consumer has to go buy another...i still have a couple of old Danner power filters that work great..


----------



## emc7

There are things i won't go back to. I have a bunch of aquaking and superking filter in the basement. But the oiling, then reoiling when they gets loud get annoying. if I ever use the boxes again I will run them with modern, sealed powerheads. I still use box filters, too. But I find myself replacing them with hydrosponge filters for easier maintenance. I like new submersible heaters like the stealth better than the old kind where you need a hole in the lid.. But I've had new heaters die in less than a year (and cook fish) and I have some 20 year-old supreme heaters still working fine. 

I agree that new stuff competes on low price rather than on high quality. Much of the supposed 'premium' aquarium stuff is just marketing markup (if you cheap stuff fails, they'll sell you cheap stuff with a prettier package for more $). We could use a few manufacturers that aren't owned by the distributors to compete on quality and longevity.


----------



## maxpayne_lhp

Ok it seems to work great - a lil bit of an accident tho - hte filter bag has a small hole on it so some of the diatom powder got in the tank.

Until I get a new filter bag - is there anyway to alleviate this? the fish seem o do fine in the slightly white water.

Fluorite dust out, diatom filter in, Ouch.


----------



## emc7

You need a new bag or you need to repair the bag you have. I seem to remember my mom doing it once with a needle and thread. As long as there is a hole, powder will keep getting into the tank. http://www.amazon.com/Diatom-Bag-D-1-Filter/dp/B000255OYU/ref=pd_sim_k_3 And thus your $25 filter becomes $60 after you buy charcoal, DE and a new bag. Used filters are always like this. Do the recharge valves work without leaking?


----------



## maxpayne_lhp

Hi elaine yeah i think cept for the bag everything works - i will look for a needle and do some sweing work while waiting for a new bag lol

I hope i dont need new bags too often - these are expensive!


----------



## lohachata

with proper care a bag will last 10 years or more..while you are at it ; you may as well order a couple of new seals...
you must be a whole lot younger than me emc....i do not at all recall recharge valves..just crimped the outlet hose..
i love the old supreme power filters..there was another that i had..aquamaster 600 or something like that..600 GPH and it was awesome..only problem was starting the syphon tubes..i would love to get some of these old filters..


----------



## emc7

Oh, starting them was a pain. You had to put airline up the plastic hose and suck the air out. I have a bin full of boxes, siphon tubes, motors and random parts. None are assembled and, after a decade or two in the basement, all of them need oil before you can even test them. If I ever catch up on my water changes, I'll pack some of this stuff up and sell it. I would probably trade for plecocaine. 

I got into fish with my parents about 1980 when I was 12. We packed everything up for a cross-country move about 19 years ago and when I got back into fish recently, got mostly new hang-on-backs. I'm not nearly as into motor maintenance and they were. Now they pick out the fish and I take care of them.


----------



## lohachata

i would gladly trade for Plecocaine....
yep..... you are way younger than me.... but then again ; everybody is younger than me... lol
nice that you have parents that are into fish.... mine were also ; but only when cooked.. i remember having a 55 gallon tank set up in their livingroom with a huige pair of gold severums in it.. dad kept an old frying pan on top of the tank.. he would say that when they got that big , he was gonna eat them.. but he would sit and watch them for hours..


----------

