# marine biology



## yournamehere

Hey, i was thinking of tanken biology / marine classes in college this summer

does anyone know what kind of jobs i can get with a degree like that

and how do they pay

my main focus is on freshwater, but i like saltwater too


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## TheOldSalt

Sure, no problem. Repeat after me:

"Would you like fries with that?"

There ARE no jobs in Marine Biology. The field is extremely small and extremely glutted with wannabe marine biologists.
Seriously. Check the want ads and then count the heads in the biology classrooms. You'll see what I mean, real quick.
If you aren't a 22 year-old supermodel with a Master's degree, you can pretty much forget it, since that's who'll you'll be competing against, and guess who does the hiring? That's right; old geeks who somehow think they'd have a chance with them.
If you think I'm kidding, think again. If you haven't recently won some sort of prize in science, aren't otherwise renowned, and don't otherwise bring something MAJOR to the table, then you will lose every single time to the cutie who looks hot in a bikini.

That said, assuming you get very lucky, you'll find that you would make almost as much flipping burgers, or maybe more if you get tips. Again, I'm not kidding. With applicants beating down the door, why pay more? With Phd's constantly begging for a $7/hr job just to have something in their field, why pay any more to some Bachelor?

Examples- 
National Aquarium at Baltimore; the bigtime, right? 17K a year. In Baltimore. 
Aquarium of the Pacific, Long Beach; 33k. Sounds good until you discover that's almost minimum wage there.

Freshwater? Try fish farming, either catfish or ornamental tropicals. HARD work, long hours, no benefits, and crappy pay. Enjoy! 
Well, there's always the local State wildlife & fisheries jobs. ( assuming you rank in the top percent of the test scores and are a veteran, of course. If not, guess who they'll call instead of you? )

Best bet? Straight Biology instead of marine, and get your teaching certificate while you're at it. Biology teachers are always in demand, and they do okay.


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## jones57742

TheOldSalt said:


> Sure, no problem. Repeat after me:
> 
> "Would you like fries with that?"


ROFLMAO

ynh:

Please listen to TOS as he is speaking from hard earned experience.

I have observed that folks with majors in physics and math (with high GPA's) and minors in their potential fields have much better luck in either getting into the high end graduate schools or in achieving higher salaries.

TR


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## Blue Cray

I looked into this myself and the top paid marine biologist I could find was making $25 and hour.


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## redpaulhus

Agreed.
Way too many people want to "swim with shamu" - and way to many schools offer marine bio degrees right now.
When I was in school, marine bio was the major of choice for the surfers, beach bunnies, and scuba-nuts. I took Bio Oceanography instead - much much more math, lots of physics and tons of organic chemistry. More "top down, Macro not Micro" in approach than Marine Bio. And I took as many aquaculture classes as possible (pretty much an unofficial Aquaculture minor).

I hit the same basic problem - I could have started as a deckhand (with a degree, but still a freakin deckhand) swabbing decks with NOAA. 
I've got a friend from college (who did go marine bio) who ended up with a state job, doing bio-assays and other field work, for less than $35k per year. Last I heard he went back to school for his masters so he can become a teacher.
I ended up working two jobs after college ( one was actually mgr at a burger joint, you want fries with that :mrgreen: and the other was part time as a LFS fish dept mgr. Turned that into a LFS mgmt career. Retail wages (and retail stress) are not enough pay off private (engineering school) university loans, unfortunately.
I ended up working my way into Info technology, and within a few years was making twice what I was as a LFS mgr, with less stress (and more time for my aquariums).

One of my friends from school is a very successful marine biologist at WHOI - I've seen her in photos of crews working on deep water hydrothermal vent communities etc, stuff I would have given my left arm to work on. She went on to earn her masters and phD. Her page at WHOI has a few interesting tidbits:


> *What is the salary range?*
> I am currently just past the postdoctoral stage of my career. The postdoctoral stage is the time after you finish your Ph.D. Postdoc positions can last 1-3 years and because of the shortage of academic jobs for PhD marine biologists, most people will do 2 or more postdocs before they find a tenure-track position. *Postdocs can make between $25,000 per year up to about $60,000 per year depending on the institution*. Like being a graduate student, many postdoc positions do not come with benefits, or if they do, it is only limited health insurance. Many universities and research institutions are now making efforts to provide better salaries and benefits programs for postdocs and for graduate students.
> *How many hours do you work?*
> Scientists work long hours. *About 50-60 generally*, but during crunch times, like before a meeting or a cruise, it can be as many as 80 or more hours a week. *At sea we work 7 days a week for 12-16 hours per day.*


That's alot of work (and alot of education) for not alot of pay.
Its pretty common to meet people who make twice that in Info Technology with no degree at all, or just an associates.
And while there's alot more to a career or degree than what you earn - you gotta make the $ to pay off the education...


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## Sea-Agg2009

Marine biology is not for the faint of heart. I am studying marine biology down in Galveston, and what people are saying is true. Starting salaries as a biologist at an aquarium is about 15k a year... so yes you do still qualify for food stamps. 

I am not going to school just for a bachelors degree, and I'll be in school for quite a while. I am going to graduate school then on to a Ph.D program. People study marine biology because they really want to, not because they can. I always laugh at the people who come in wanting to play with the dolphins and the turtles... they don't last. In the end, my goal is to be a professor at a research based university. Most of the time you are making about 75-90k in those situations, but they are rare. The payoff is that you are doing something you enjoy. I will never sit in a cubicle, and I will never have to wear a tie. My work outfit is a wetsuit, and my office is a boat. People that don't go the school route work in parks and wildlife, which is actually more of a legal job. You do alot of monitoring construction permits, or occasionally you can find a job as a game warden. Neither pay above the 50k margin. 

Not to toot my own horn, but I am one of the lucky ones. Of course, I do take 16 hours of senior level science classes ("studying" for my comparative physiology final as I type), volunteer at a lab doing stable isotope and gut-content analysis of rock hind and graysbe, and volunteer at an aquarium 2 days a week. For money I work at a NOAA lab doing plankton analysis. I'm pretty busy, even as a student. Once I'm on the other end of lecture, I'll be even more busy. Like I said before, I wouldn't trade it for anything. 

Bottom line...You don't do anything in marine biology because you can, but because you want to. You don't take a few classes and call yourself a marine biologist. It's a life long passion, and the long hours and crappy pay are dwarfed to the fulfillment I get.

Best bet:
Get a business degree and open a pet shop.


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## lohachata

get yourself a degree in chemical engineering..then go get your MBA...highest paid occupation in the country...you can ask my brother-inlaw...$400,000 a year...


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## redpaulhus

well put !
(I really miss those days, especially doing bio-sampling - seines and trawls mostly.)


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## guppyart

Blue Cray said:


> I looked into this myself and the top paid marine biologist I could find was making $25 and hour.


might as well get into a trade become an apprentice doing welding or plumbing and start out at 25$ an hour while choosing which job sites you prefer  .


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## bmlbytes

Yournamehere, although the other members may make it sound like it is not a good ocupation to go into, if it is something you think you would love, including the negative parts, I say by all means go for it. I think it is better to love your job, than to love your money. 

If you are trying to get into the "underwater" type jobs, may I suggest you at least start getting some diving experience. It doesn't cost that much and it doesn't take too long to get certified as an openwater diver. Just a little more time and money to become an advanced openwater diver. The reason I suggest you get started right away, is that what is more important than your certifications is the time you put in your log book, which you will get with your certification. You can get your certification from an affiliate of PADI or NAUI.

http://www.padi.com/scuba/
http://www.naui.org/


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## TheOldSalt

OOOOoooohh, good point. You'll need your diver's certifications of at least Advanced Open Water, and preferably Rescue, and you'll need a lot of hours logged in your book. This is for insurance reasons, mainly, so it's a pretty important and common requirement that you can't ignore.

Hardhat diving for oil companies and such pays BIG bucks, and you get to hang out with fish all day. 

Chemical engineering, eh? Hmmmm.... My kid brother is an engineer at NASA, working on the next space vehicles. He only makes some 60K. The funny thing is, he really wanted to play spaceman, so that's what he's doing. He almost went into chemistry instead, but he turned down the big bucks. I personally hate chemistry, seeing it as a necessary evil more than as anything remotely fun, but for that kind of dough, I could see myself going back to school.

On a side note, my spaceman brother is currently in charge of figuring out better ways to separate liquid & solid sewage in zero-g, for reasons I really don't want to think about in this lifetime.


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## redpaulhus

bmlbytes said:


> Yournamehere, although the other members may make it sound like it is not a good ocupation to go into, if it is something you think you would love, including the negative parts, I say by all means go for it. I think it is better to love your job, than to love your money.


Oh I agree - its a great field. But the original questions posed were :
What jobs and how do they pay ?

So that's what we answered.

Nowadays, a BS in Marine Bio isn't going to give you many "fun" answers to those questions. A MS or phd would change it a bit. 
Heck, a different degree with certain skills could mean more money and more hands-on stuff.

One of my professors in college was featured on Discovery's Shark Week my junior year, he's done very cool work with a number of fish families (both elasmobranch and teleost ) and his doctorate is in zoology not marine bio...

Just don't do it for the money !


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## bmlbytes

> Zoology, (officially pronounced /zoʊˈɑlədʒɪ/[1], colloquially pronounced /zuːˈɑlədʒɪ/) occasionally also spelled zoölogy, is the branch of biology that focuses on the structure, function, behavior, and evolution of animals.


That actually sounds like fun, and it sounds like it could be higher paying and more versatile than marine bio. I may actually want to do that.


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## Sea-Agg2009

If you are a marine biologist you really need to get into scientific diving, specifically with AAUS. I'm in the process of getting my dive master cert, though I'm debating whether to do that or my cave diving cert first. I'll have them both by the end of this summer. 

AAUS


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## TheOldSalt

One more thing, which I'll post for people who stumble across this one day in a search for how to get a job with dolphins:

If you want to work with dolphins or sealions or otherwise work at Seaworld or whatever, then a degree in Marine Biology is next to worthless. Surprised? To get those jobs, you should instead get only a minor in biology and a major in ... psychology! You're TRAINING them, remember?


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## mousey

seriously that is all the pay amounts to?
I am quite surprised at what I find out.
It would seem to be somewhat of a dream job to work with fish or sea animals.
I wonder if other jobs working with wildlife are as poorly paid?


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## bmlbytes

If you are wanting to work with wildlife, there are much better paying jobs out there. Marine biology is just a very popular position, so there will be people out there willing to work for next to nothing or even volunteer.


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## lohachata

banks do not care how much you love your job..neither do the grocers or utility companies....they only care that you pay them on the regular...


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## TheOldSalt

Ugh.
Don't even get me started on the volunteers...

However.. that is one good way to get your foot in the door.


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## OCtrackiepacsg1

Tip, if you want to work with ocean mammals do zoology. To tell you the truth, I was interested as well in marine bio ever since 3rd grade, no part of it was because I wanted to be a dinky dolphin trainer. 
in my terms
Marine Biology= micro organism and non mammals. 
Zoology= oceanic mammals


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## Sea-Agg2009

OCtrackiepacsg1 said:


> Marine Biology= micro organism and non mammals.
> Zoology= oceanic mammals


With that said... why would anyone want to study zoology?


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## bmlbytes

Because zoology is more than Oceanic Mammals. It encompouses a large number of both land and water animals.


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## Sea-Agg2009

bmlbytes said:


> Because zoology is more than Oceanic Mammals. It encompouses a large number of both land and water animals.


Yeah I was being facetious. I have a personal vendetta against marine turtles and mammals.


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## emc7

Am I the only one disappointed when I go to the aquarium and see lots of mammals (seals, sea lions, otters, whales, dolphins) and birds (penguins) , reptiles (turtles, alligators and crocodiles) and no fish anywhere near them (I think there is chlorine in the water). When the GA aquarium first opened, they put fish in more tanks. I like otters, but the enclosure is always steamed up and you can't even see them. Before they arrived, there were 10,000 tetra in the tank just so it wouldn't be empty. I miss them and I can't help but think of how many fish the whale and dolphin tanks could hold.


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## TheOldSalt

You can thank the USDA for that one. ( _they're in charge of animal parks, too, which comes as a surprise to most folks_ ) The exhibits housing the mammals have to be maintained in ways that make keeping fish in them nearly impossible. Besides, cramming fish into everything tends to complicate things, and people also tend to get upset when an otter rips open a pretty fishie in front of a class of second graders.


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## guppyart

hehe and people think otters are innocent cute little animals.


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## Sea-Agg2009

TheOldSalt said:


> people also tend to get upset when an otter rips open a pretty fishie in front of a class of second graders.


Yes people have very high expectations. Not so much for the aquarium, but for the behavior of the animals. I know we got crazy complaints with huge group of kids were going through the walk-through tunnel, and the big sea turtle pooped in front of a water jet...

The USDA and the AZA both have very strict standards for keeping marine mammals, and it does seem a bit pointless to buy a bunch of fancy fish only for them to be eaten in about a week. Penguins will do that without a problem, and so will seals and dolphins. I'm not so sure about alligators, because if you feed them enough they won't touch anything.


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## emc7

I guess I'm weird, I expect to see fish at the aquarium. One place I was faked it. Hppos in a tank behind a tank of Mbuna. Hippos don't go in the lake and mbuna don't go in the river, but I appreciated something to look at that actual moved. Are there any scientific fields left with decent salaries outside of teaching?


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## bmlbytes

The Minnesota Zoo has an amazing aquarium exhibit. They have Sharks, Rays, Fish, Stars, Urchins, Sea Cucumbers, etc. They separate the incompatible animals so you can watch them without watching the fish get eaten. The penguins and seals and turtles are in completely separate exhibits.


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## OCtrackiepacsg1

I no longer go to aquariums, first of all its too crammed and noisy, its should be a quiet place for people to shut up and stare. Now its been kid friendlified where there filled with shows, movies and play areas. But back on topic, I would love to persue marine biology but the pay in not worth the huge trouble. But if you love a job, wouldn't you almost pay to do it? That being said though Astrophysics and Aerospace Engineering, my other 2 hopes both have respectable pay


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## emc7

Are there jobs in astrophysics? Thats a really cool field. I thought it was neat even before they found C60 in space before they found it in soot.


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## jones57742

emc7 said:


> *Are there jobs in astrophysics? * Thats a really cool field. I thought it was neat even before they found C60 in space before they found it in soot.


The possibility of the existence of "buckyballs" is indeed significant. How can they exist wrt the 2nd law of thermodynamics? - Do some internet research into non-equilibrium thermo.

I still maintain minor contact with the folks in Austin.

*Yes* but until you attain the stature of attaining multiple contracts (which are few and far between these days) or Nobel Prize Laurette the pay is low.

TR

BTW: back when JPL was very active and had tons of money GERARD DE VAUCOULEURS  had a JPL contract associated with the NASA'a lunar missions and I developed tons of photographs for him.

Imagine developing photographs in the lab one Saturday afternoon listening to Texaco's weekly opera and a photograph begins becoming viewable: the first earthrise ever seen by man.

TR


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## OCtrackiepacsg1

Hell, I'm the next neil degrasse tyson lol just kidding.
But if you like genuinely like a job, you'll do it for free.


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## jones57742

OCtrackiepacsg1 said:


> But if you like genuinely like a job, you'll do it for free.


Bills to pay: football tickets to buy.

TR


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## COM

emc7 said:


> Are there any scientific fields left with decent salaries outside of teaching?


Anything to do with petrochemicals or pharmaceuticals will pay a few hundred Gs a year. Otherwise, professor jobs will pay around $200k, middle/high school will max out around $120k. Research jobs pay terribly.


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## bmlbytes

You guys need to remember who you are talking to. You may think that certain jobs pay terrible, but that is a matter of relativity. $50k to a single person in their 20s is more money than $80k to a person with a family. Not to mention, people typically move up in their jobs, starting at the low paying jobs and moving up to the better paying and hopefully more exciting jobs. The people asking about what kind of jobs are available, are not asking to get $300k right out of school, but would most likely be happy working at a $50k job for a few years to move up to those high paying jobs. 

Find a job you love, and you will never work again.


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## Albino_101

My input here is do something that gets you noticed, make a breakthrough on a study or discover a previously thought to be extinct organism, degrees pale in comparison to things like that.


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