# Whale Wars



## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

Hey my fishy friends I figured id go ahead and start a thread about my favorite TV show, Whale Wars. What are your opinions on what the cast of the Bob Barker and Steve Irwin are doing?


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

not cast, i meant crew. my bad


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I liked the South Park 'whale wars' episode.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

havent seen that one, i wish they had die hard save the coral reef group, reef wars...


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## chronoboy (Jan 17, 2011)

I love cartmans version of pokerface by lady gaga 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qST5eVLudrQ&feature=related


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## Hansolo (Sep 10, 2010)

Havnt seen the show but the Field Museum in Chicago is doing a big thing in whaling. It literally made me sick to see how the whales population was destroyed. Whalers should all be drown where they get busted at in my opinion. If anyone's near Chicago it was a really neat exhibit. The Shedd Aquarium is doing Jellyfish atm if anyone was interested.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Whale Wars is a joke. I feel like all I ever see on that show is them following boats and then crying when a whale gets dragged up onto the factory ship. I appreciate the effort and all but nothing ever happens... The South Park one was pretty funny.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I saw 2 episodes. It was a pretty boring as a tv show. New crew pukes, looks for boats, tries to plug oil leak, tries not to hit ice. "Dramatic" narration suggests disaster if they have to stop for fuel anytime in the next 3 months. As if the TV helicopter following them around couldn't bring some.

As for the whole idea, I'm not a fan of whaling, but is this really the most cost effective way to reduce it? I won't be donating to greenpeace anytime soon. Does the show cover the cost of the chase?

Humans have this recurring pattern of discovering a resource, exploiting it, exhausting it and then finding a new resource. Seems like we should be tracking things like the annual number and size of animals sold and plot trends and stop exploiting a resource before we drive it to extinction. Its hard to tell someone whose net worth is invested in a crab boat not to hunt crab and even harder to prevent someone from doing it if they don't listen. But they are the ones who will lose their shirt when there are no more crabs. There has to be a way to rotate fisheries like we rotate crops. Leave some places or fishes alone for awhile to let them recover. 

But we have too many humans chasing too little sea life. Whales go hungry because we beat them to the krill. As we approach 7 billion hungry humans, every living thing is either our food or competition for food. How do you fence off the sea?


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

I like the show, but I agree that they rarely ever do anything. And I found that episode via hulu three days ago, here's the link.:fun:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e11-whale-********************s

Oh yeah, thanks to the site itself for censoring that URL. Thanks South Park, for not representing the views of Fish Forums and for not being appropriate to be seen by the younger audiences...


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Normally they are beyond useless, but this year they won! They nearly rammed their ship into the back intake ramp area of the factory ship, blocking the hunter boats from access, and stayed there until the hunters had to just give up. The fleet was recalled to japan and the whaling season cancelled. Those SeaShepard morons actually stopped the whalers and saved 900+ whales for the year.
Amazing what can be done when someone actually DOES something for a change.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I agree with the whole view on stopping whaling, but why should we stop there, its kind of everyones fault the worlds oceans are so depleted, I mean look at the quality of shat ome of the SW fish hat are tank raised or bred, at my LFS they stopped carrying anything that is wild caught, they don't even sell anemones anymore. The point of the show is not just whales, its the whole ocean/biosphere of this planet.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

I think its beyond stupid. What good does attacking the producer have when it doesn't effect the consumer. As long as their are consumers no matter how much you bother them they are not going to stop. 

This is a good paper IMO http://sjalp.stanford.edu/pdfs/Hoek.pdf

I've seen that south park episode too before. Once was down in Cancun and it was dubbed in Spanish, which made it twice as funny lol!


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

The guys on whale wars are insane! I think it might be smart to close whaling for a year.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Japan is killing more whales than anyone else in the whole world. Whales are low enough in numbers that the annual kill can make a difference to their survival. Its really kind of stupid to try to keep an industry afloat by wiping out its raw material forever. Better to take 30 years off and start up again slow. Killing whales for 'scientific research' is a crock. I want to see the research paper that is that's worth 900 whales. There are plenty of other pressures on the whales, such as competing with humans for food, but killing them isn't helping. 

I think Greenpeace are idiots, but Japan is being a a******. As long as just one country in the whole world is a able to keep killing something endangered despite a global consensus to stop, we won't be able to save anything because there will always be some people who don't agree and won't stop. 

If you can't find and stop the taking something the size of a mac truck, how can you save a shrimp or coral?


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...born-calf-successful-birth-first-time-dolphin


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## Tormenter370 (Dec 23, 2010)

e048 said:


> Hey my fishy friends I figured id go ahead and start a thread about my favorite TV show, Whale Wars. What are your opinions on what the cast of the Bob Barker and Steve Irwin are doing?


I want to do this to whalers :chair:

its not fair!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, I said it before, so I'll say it again; if we want to put a stop to this, then it's up to US to put a stop to this. We can't just sit back and hope that somebody somewhere does something that might somehow be effective.

Stop buying all japanese products. Period. They only hunt whales for economic reasons, to shore up some markets in old fishing towns. If we stop buying all their stuff, then their entire economy will start to collapse, and they'll have to conclude that keeping the whole country afloat is more important than giving jobs to some old whalemeat packers.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

That's nearly impossible. I don't know what all is made in Japan but I wouldn't be surprised if over 75% of our products come from Japan or other countries.


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## humdedum (Feb 18, 2009)

I thought the majority of products came from China, judging from all the packaging I see.


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## Oranda (Apr 19, 2011)

I don't think Whale Wars will be putting a stop to the Japanese Whaling efforts. Not until they outfit their boats with live ammunition. I'd love to take an old Japanese Zero and throw some live torpedoes into the Japanese whale boats personally. Whales are my favorite ocean animals, I think it's disgusting what the Japanese are doing. Other countries should stop the Japanese... not like they have or can have a military to fight back. It takes whales a long time to get that big, not like it happens overnight and at the rate the Japanese are killing the whales they are going to be endangered. It's as bad as the Chinese Shark fin soup that's starting to kill off species of sharks...


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## Oranda (Apr 19, 2011)

TheOldSalt said:


> Stop buying all japanese products. Period. They only hunt whales for economic reasons, to shore up some markets in old fishing towns. If we stop buying all their stuff, then their entire economy will start to collapse, and they'll have to conclude that keeping the whole country afloat is more important than giving jobs to some old whalemeat packers.


Good luck with that... Japanese ricers, and fuel efficient automobiles are what the American people have been suckered into buying in this economic times. Not to mention video games and computers. I went to Japan 10 years ago with my father, we toured a Japanese Hard Drive making warehouse. They had large stacks of 250g hard drives, 500g hard drives, 1 TB hard drives... That was 10 years ago, they let it sit around so they can make the money off of the things that were amazing 10 years ago.. like 50g hard drives.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

If you don't remember, Japan is our ally and just got hit with an earthquake and tsunami. If anything, we should stop buying stuff made from whale oil or meat from Japan, but not everything.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Boycotting one big enough company could do it. Imagine if Nintendo released the WII 2 and no Americans or Europeans bought it. Or PS3s and Sony music. But to be fair, you should to find one connected somehow to whaling.

With their manufacturing industry hampered by power shortages, damage, and evaluations, Japan will likely try harder to protect 'low-tech' jobs like fishing and whaling. I expect them to kill more whales this year. 

Japan's appetites are threatening tuna as well as whales. China wants to farm Rhino's for their horn. There is an outside chance it could work. But it work make more sense to convince people it really doesn't cure cancer, no matter how much you pay for it. There's no way you can farm whales. Maybe grow bludder in a vat?


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## blindkiller85 (Jan 8, 2011)

The problem here is missing you all. The problem doesn't extend to countries having or wanting the power to do something that is wrong. Not the power to stop something that is not green, wrong, unfavored, whatever you want to call it.

The cure is simple, and will not ever be possible until the end of man. This all dawned upon us before christ, BC times. Greed. More for yourself, less for others. This is the foundation of human civilization, growth, technology, expansion, and imminent doom. Greed. Period.

We will all eventually die, taking our wealth and passing it on to few, and so on and so on. Until all that is left is a super upper class, and a super lower class. Where the upper class doesn't want to spend anything, and the lower class cannot afford anything. Natural resources consumed to the point that nothing can be done, the earth populated beyond a point of support. Equating to an entire collapse of the species much like extinct mammals, reptiles, amphibians, etc.

Who will protect us? Nothing, the lions, tigers and bears (OH MY!) will eat us and not give a flying ****. The bacteria and virus's won't either. I don't care either way because sitting here on my computer saying I give a crap about it when it happens is hypocrisy on it's own. When the be-jesus did humans ever have the need to buildings 1200 ft tall, plastic equating to technology, gasoline to make 5000 pounds of metal move. Think of anything you can, the answer is never. Everything can be argued until the end of time itself of never. Some people, like greed induced humamity that it is, will argue against it. But the simple fact is. Matrix had it right, we are a virus to this planet. Eventually we will die, or it will. Intelligence, greed, and "humanity" will be our downfall. I embrace and welcome it, sadly.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Haha, so the whole point of that post is to not do anything... lol IMO... 

I personally 100% disagree with the above. 

On the topic of the japanese whale meat market, it is dying. They are not ignorant over there to the health hazards and environmental damage of eating whale meat. The movie 'The Cove' showed in theaters over their just like it did here... 

Unfortunately I admire the country too much to boycott anything from it. Whaling is wrong and no country is perfect, but most are usually improving. I $^&%^%* love my 12 year old Mazda BTW. I will take that car past 200K miles easily in about a year. 1st car and learned stick on it I will cry when I sell sell it. Drove my aunts 2011 Ford focus and the car had MASSIVE hesitation.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

You're right, betta man, now that we have them up against the ropes, it's time to strike! All we need is a national campaign that equates buying a PS3 game with slaughtering a whale.

UGH-- I just had a sickening thought. Those PETA idiots might actually be useful for this one. They're good at getting unpopular messages out in a big way.
No, wait; nevermind. people would ignore it just because it was them saying it.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> No, wait; nevermind. people would ignore it just because it was them saying it.


Yeah, go back to watching your sea kittens


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

"people would ignore it just because it was them saying it."

No, people SHOULD ignore it because it was them saying it. The majority of what they say is complete crap that tries to get them donations. Other than point fingers at other people and ask for money, I haven't ever seen them do a thing. Just like a large amount politicians.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

blindkiller85 said:


> The problem here is missing you all. The problem doesn't extend to countries having or wanting the power to do something that is wrong. Not the power to stop something that is not green, wrong, unfavored, whatever you want to call it.
> 
> The cure is simple, and will not ever be possible until the end of man. This all dawned upon us before christ, BC times. Greed. More for yourself, less for others. This is the foundation of human civilization, growth, technology, expansion, and imminent doom. Greed. Period.
> 
> ...


When the end of man happens, The end of the world wil be within a thousand years. Either people are going to hell or to heaven. We won't need whales then and it won't be a problem.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

That depends entirely on your religious beliefs. 

When I die I will join Nyan Cat and venture across the universe. Anything less would be disappointing.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Mikaila31 said:


> That depends entirely on your religious beliefs.
> 
> When I die I will join Nyan Cat and venture across the universe. Anything less would be disappointing.


Bwahahahahaha



But seriously... there is no telling when the world will end. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."
And when it does, nobody will have enough time to care about it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Kindergarten manners, people. 

Clean up after yourselves and leave an area in better shape than when you got there. Goes for the earth, too. Leave some bio-diversity for your children's children. 

For the religious, greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. Gluttony is another. Leave some food on the plate, some oil in the ground or go to hell.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-finance/20110610/Sea.Shepherd.Tuna/

Going after the Tuna next. Good idea, but stink bombs and water? Not exactly effective weapons.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Well if its a good idea I hope you NEVER have a tuna fish sandwich. The consumer creates the producer.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

hXcChic22 said:


> Bwahahahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Amen. That's somewhere in Revelations isn't it?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I agree, as long as there is demand, unscrupulous people will feed it. Blue-fin tuna goes to mostly high-end sushi in Japan. Cheap canned fish is usually from a plentiful species.


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## chronoboy (Jan 17, 2011)

The biggest point all you guys are missing is you cant just blame japan for the whaling, IWC allows japan to whale for "scientific purpose" but who runs the IWC not japan, but by other country's, and whoever posted that they are hunting them into extintsion is wrong too, whale populations have grown leaps and bounds in the last 20-30 years, and what about the natives that the IWC allows to hunt so many whales a year should they not be aloud to do what they have done for hundreds of years, so you can sit back and blame japan for their actions but at the same time its not just them that allows it and its not their fault whale populations are what they are.

I do not agree a hundred percent with whaling, and I really dont agree with them useing the excuse for what they do as scientific research, why do they have to be killed to be researched, but we cannot form a linch mob just for the japanesse, if IWC didnt sanction what they do they wouldnt be aloud to do it.

Japan is a country of fishermen, its somthing that has been in there blood for thousands of years, you know that america is a big part to blame for whales being hunted to near extinction, it was are greed for oil yes oil that drove us to slaughter so many whales not there meat but there oil before they struck it rich in texas for oil whales where americas source for oil for a very long time, so yes i believe we should stop whaling for the most part "not including natives" but we shouldnt hate or blame a race of people for doing somthing they have done for hundreds of years, go after the people that allow it not the people that are just doing there jobs.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Betta man said:


> Amen. That's somewhere in Revelations isn't it?


Nope. 2 Peter 3:10 (9-11) for full reference passage.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You are right that most seafaring nations took part in driving whales toward extinction, including American and Britain. Japan is just the only one left killing hundreds of whales each year. But I can and do blame people who are making a living in an industry for what the industry does. If no one planted, picked or processed tobacco, smoking-related cancer would disappear in one lifetime. Yes, its hard to find a new job, but try. It is human nature to take care of oneself and one's family at the expense of others. But it isn't moral or right.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

emc7 said:


> But I can and do blame people who are making a living in an industry for what the industry does. If no one planted, picked or processed tobacco, smoking-related cancer would disappear in one lifetime. .


That is completely illogical. CONSUMERS have a choice. Those jobs exist for a reason not because of simple industry. If the tobacco industry disappeared so many people would go to growing their own regardless of the laws. Sure I hate smoking, it would be nice it no one did it. But to the people that do that is entirely their choice. You can't blame the industry for smoking-related cancer. Its printed on every package, yet consumers smoke it knowingly. I work with people who are cancer-survivors and STILL smoke. 

Lots of whales are killed by lots of countries. It does not have to do even with whaling. Ship collisions and bycatch kill a considerable number of whales and dolphins around the world. 

Blue-finned and mahi-mahi are more high end fish, however that does not change the fact that pretty much EVERY species of food fish is on the decline. Including the fish in your can of albacore tuna. Even the US fisheries being the most heavily regulated still show a decline in wild stock.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its not entirely illogical. Trade requires supply and demand. State-run lotteries contribute to gambling addiction, heroin requires transport from poppies in Afghanistan. Every minute my computer is on takes electricity from a coal-burning plant. 

I agree that attacking demand is usually far more effective than attacking the supply as removing suppliers increases prices which attacks more suppliers. Are drug dealers evil? They are often just addicts trying to support their habit. They spread addition like a contagious disease by peddling their wares. IMO they are selfish to the point of immorality. Plenty of legal employments are, IMO, in the same vein. 

You are going to spend a third of your life at work. What do you want to accomplish there? Is it enough to 'do it for the paycheck'? Isn't better to believe in what you are doing? What do you do when you see your business doing more harm than good? Shouldn't you walk away from mortgage fraud or causing cancer or driving something to extinction? Not everyone has the luxury of choosing a career. People living in a town that only has a cigarette plant or a whale cannery likely don't see a choice. But Big Tobacco executives likely make enough in year to feed their kids for a lifetime. Why don't they walk away? I think the moral ones did, 20 or even 40 years ago as their less scrupulous colleagues hid the studies.

Yes, food fish are in decline. We are all responsible air, water, and even ground pollution eventually ends up in the sea. Billions of hungry people are buying canned tuna.

Guilt doesn't change anything. Waste of energy. Do something or do less of things that cause harm to others or the planet. Don't buy gambling stocks even if they have a higher return than other investments. Eat 'sustainable harvested' fish or eat plants. Don't buy whale byproducts. Have fewer children, a smaller house. Take the lower paying job that does less harm.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

coming from a state were whaling is still practiced: Big boy rules apply!

YOU BREAK IT, YOU BUY IT!

this rule should be applied to more things.... like our planet


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Maybe encouraging smoking is a good thing. Shortening the lives of millions of humans will reduce their impact on the planet.


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## chronoboy (Jan 17, 2011)

Japan, Norway, and Iceland still conduct whaling. Japan uses a loop hole in the moratorium on whaling. They claim they are conducting research, but that is widely disputed. There are also some Alaskan Natives and canadian inuit tribes who engage in whaling, so to prosecute just japan for somthing that others still do is not right, and like i stated before why go after japan for it alone when its the IWA that allows it under the act of scientific research, they would not be aloud to hunt whales anymore if the IWA didnt sanction it.

So you can say lets stop buying japanesse products, but it will not stop whaling. I love whales nothing greater then being out on the ocean on a calm night and have whales useing your boat as a back scractcher, and listening to them, or watching a group of orcas come into the bay and feed on sea lions, I know it sounds horrible but its nature and its a amazing thing to see in person, yes they should stop commercial whaling (especailly in the name of science) but i dont believe we have the right to take away the natives rights to hunt them.

And you cannot not put moral or right out there, when you eat your big mac or chow down on some fried chicken, just think how inhuman those animals are treated and slaughtered, is that moral or right? but that doesnt stop you from buying it, no, cause their easily replenishable and not indangered.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Uhm, whaling's bad, Mkay? That's just all there is to it, Mkay.

There is a huge difference in a few eskimos and laplanders hunting a few whales that swim by their villiages and a nation sending entire fleets halfway around the world to slaughter hundreds every trip.
There is a difference between a little subsistence harvesting and blatant wholesale slaughter for the sake of supporting an industry, which is the main problem in this case: Japan only hunts whales to provide employment to a few old traditional whaling towns that were previously experiencing high unemployment. That's right; they aren't conducting any real research. They are only running their old canneries because they'd rather not have to deal with the whinings of old unemployed ex-whalers. So yes, Mikaila, these jobs DO exist for their own sake after all.

There's just no excuse or justification for it, especially considering how japan exploits one loophole in international law, a loophole the IWC has been trying to figure out how to close without ruining actual research which may need to be conducted someday. The IWC isn't happy with Japan's antics either.

Of COURSE whale populations have grown in the last 30 years. It's funny how that happened when whaling got outlawed about 30 years ago. Ooooh... spooky.

If we stopped buying Japanese, it would stop whaling. Japanese whaling exists solely for the purpose of propping up one tiny sector of it's total economy. If the REST of it's economy started to rapidly tumble as a result of it, though, Japan would announce that it's "research" was complete in short order.


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## Plecostomus (Jul 31, 2006)

I think the population of whales will eventually balance itself. As more whales are hunted, it will be harder for the whalers to get business and they will eventually have no choice but to move on to something else. Whale populations may be pushed to dangerous limits, but they will come back when whaling becomes unprofitable.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

i'd agree with you except for advancing technology. When you can get a picture of the entire ocean from space, whales don't have any place left to hide. And as a product gets scare prices keep going up and up. I don't know who pay a fortune for endangered animal meat, but someone does. Probably the same idiots who drink gold flake. People used to be ashamed to flaunt excessive wealth, now they compete for the most overpriced meals.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

TheOldSalt said:


> There is a huge difference in a few eskimos and laplanders hunting a few whales that swim by their villiages and a nation sending entire fleets halfway around the world to slaughter hundreds every trip.
> There is a difference between a little subsistence harvesting and blatant wholesale slaughter for the sake of supporting an industry, which is the main problem in this case


Glad I wasn't the only one about to point this fact out. Of COURSE they hunt whales - they have as long as they've been able to because it's a lifesource for them. Slightly different than the shenanigans Japan is pulling.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I've read the Alaskans are carefully not hunting the most endangered whales, even though they are hunting.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

True. They usually go for Greys, which are relatively common and easy to reach. The Japs primarily hunt Minkes, which are also fairly common as whales go, but they also target Finbacks, and Humpbacks, which is totally not cool.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

TOS FTW! I agree if you want to hunt, fish, kill do it something that doesn't take 40 years to reach adult size, I mean look at the passenger pigeon in the 1700s hunted to extinction, we may not be the cause of all the suffering on the world, but sometimes we can be the only problem and thus become the only solution, I can think of nothing that eats an adult baleen whale, sure killer whales and some sharks eat smaller porpoises but I don't think anything except man, disease, or age can kill a humpback, a blue, or any other larger whale.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Just because I have to say it, the adult giant squid hunts down the sperm whale.  

That would be really cool to see, I think.


EDIT Wait, that's the other way around. Whoops!


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

Not the giant squid!


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