# I want to know why...



## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

I have had my sweet little Crown Tail Betta, Dante, for several months now. He's my best buddy, and my favorite fish out of my 4 tanks. I kept him in a 1 1/2 gallon tank, with a small heater and a small aquatic fern. no filter. and he loved it. He was doing great. 
About a week ago I transferred him to a 5 gallon tank that I had set up for him because I heard that the more room a Betta has, the better they thrive. so i bought 3 more plants, and honestly I cant remember what they are. The associate at Petco said that they would be "great" plants for a Betta... And I used a 50/50 day/blue light. I used the filter for about a day and he couldn't handle it, he was being thrashed around the tank, so I took the filter out.
I thought he was doing okay. 
Until I came home today to find him dead... The water was at toxic level and I had tested it not a week prior and it had been fine... 
What did I do wrong? would the plants have caused the water to become toxic? Should I have been running a filter? 
I don't even use real plants in my other tropical tanks because it seems that whenever I do, my fish all die.
I'm so devastated... I lost my buddy...
can someone please help me figure out what I did wrong...


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm really sorry to hear that.. The first you thing you did though was having an ammonia spike. Switching him to a new tank that wasn't cycled is probably what happened. Did you bring all the old gravel and water too??


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

I let the tank run with the filter for 2 weeks before putting him in it. I also added this bio stuff to help. Cant remember what its called because im not at home...


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Was there anything else in the tank that may have died or something that was rotting and causing the spike? What plants did you put in?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

first mistake......listening to a petco employee.....
second mistake.......adding the water treatment....
third mistake...no filtration......
common mistakes for many.......you probaly would have been better off using a sponge filter....which you can still do..
a single betta in a 5 gallon tank will create a more gentle cycle..
hmmmm...what do you mean by "toxic" ??
petco plants.....OMG.....most of the plants they sell are not even aquatic plants..and some may even give off toxins that can harm aquatic life..

get all of your info on the stuff and figure out what they are for..go/no go for aquariums...
hopefully you will have better luck with your next betta...it is hard when you lose your pets..


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

So your not supposed to treat water for bettas? And the water was toxic when i tested it with ph strips today. I was just wondering if the plants could have contributed to the water toxity...


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

It's not that you treated it. It's when you treated it. You killed all your beneficial bacteria and basically, the cycle started over creating an ammonia spike.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

wait.......you tested with PH strips ???????
what do you mean by "toxic" ??
exactly what were the readings you took and the results you got ??

i don't normally cycle my tanks like some do..sure , they get cycled...but i do it with fish..i don't have the time or room to do otherwise..so that means more water changes...i don't recommend that beginners do it this way...i am a little more experienced at it and have a better idea of what to do...
1 male betta in a 5 gallon tank is almost zero bioload...i doubt you would get a huge ammonia spike from it...

what are the species names of the plants you put in ??
did you clean the tank and everything that was going to go in it before setting it up ?
what is the tank temp ?


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

Yes. Should i not have to worry about ph levels in my betta's tank? 
When i tested it this morning it said that the nitrite was 1.0 "the stress level", the alkalinity was below 40, and the pH was 6.2 "acidic"
The total hardness was 75 "soft" and the nitrate was showing up as less than 20 "safe".
I use Jungle Quick Dip 5-N-1 Test Strips. 
I didnt bother to check the ammonia today though.

One plant is a small "Aquadic fern" and one was a "Egeria Densa" i cant remember the name of the other two...

The temperature is steady at 78 degress F.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

PH of 6.2 is fine...doing several small (20%) water changes will help get things in order...do them every other day..1 gallon each time..
if you have a "nitrite" reading then the tank is in the cycling process...do water changes..
78 degrees F is fine..
egeria densa is anacharis and is an excellent water plant..aquatic fern is a bit subjective... possibly java fern..

when testing your water try this...
1.ammonia.....
2.nitrite.....if you get a reading on these 2 don't bother with the "nitrate" test..you are cycling...
when the first 2 test results start coming down , start testing the nitrates...
i haven't used a test kit in so long that i don't even remember what the readings should be...mostly i go by look , taste and smell...


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

Taste and smell? Holy cow thats awesome.
I just found out that one of the other plants was an anubias or something like that...


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

ok...anubias is a good plant...do not plant it in the substrate...tie it to a rock or small piece of driftwood..


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

Oh crap, i had it directly planted in the gravel, why should it not be planted in the substrate?


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

And what should i tie it with?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Do not panic about the anubias. I grow some in gravel and some tied on a log. It will do ok either way. One of mine has grown off its log into the gravel and is now traveling across the tank substrate.
i have had many bettas in 5 gallon tanks and they all did ok. the problem is likely something you put into the water to change the chemistry or perhaps some other toxin has gotten in eg soap, fumes.
get a small filter like a penplax small world or a sponge filter as suggested. and betta will be fine. I don't worry about the bettasin my bigger community tanks and Aquaclear filters either- as long as the fish is a strong swimmer they can keep away forn the intake tube. 
If you don't have money to get a new filter take a piece of an old nylon and wrap it around the intake tube and secure with a tie tag or elastic. Make sure no rough edges stick out into the water in case betta snags himself on it. bettas are very hardy when it comes to cycling a tank with them. They however are not hardy to some chemicals. I managed to poison one with a chemical that is totally safe for livebearers but not light colored fish.
wash your tank out real good with lots of fresh running water before adding another fish.
read the sticky about cycling the tank.


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

I will look into a new filter. I have a sponge filter but its meant for a 20 gallon, so its way too big. when I set up the tank I ran it for 2 weeks using this stuff called Biozyme as suggested and then I used Easy Balance to make sure the chemicals were balanced before I put him in. should I have used something else? or nothing at all?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

try to refrain from using any extra chemicals in your tank...especially in a small tank as a radical change can occur very rapidly..and rapid changes kill fish..
personally i would start over....drain the tank and rinse it out good..then set it back up using a small sponge filter...they make nice triangular ones that go well in a corner..you can then cover it with gravel to hide it..set a small piece of driftwood in front of it...then some plants around the rest of the tank...

i would stay away from stuff like easy balance...your water and the water from the shop are probably almost the same..why waste your money and screw things up...
it's not your fault..you didn't know...and the clerk was just trying to hustle product... and not knowing what they were talking about...
all you need is " Dechlor " made by Weco...cheap and easy...1 drop per gallon...i do not dechlorinate unless it is a new set up or i am doing more than a 40% water change...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Easy balance is not something I would use or recommend. Its description says it messes with your pH, kH and phosphates and adds "nitrate reducing granules". Do you know what happens when you reduce nitrate? You get nitrite. Do it again and you get ammonia. A third time and you get nitrogen gas, but by then your fish are dead. I have not seen any product that claims to reduce the need for water changes that is not accompanied by tales of dead fish.



> Easy Balance keeps aquarium water biologically balanced for up to 6 months and stabilizes the pH and alkalinity (KH) levels that are vital for the fish and plants. It reduces the phosphate level for improved water quality. It eliminates frequent water changes. For freshwater only. Proper aeration is essential via an airstone. Easy Balance should not be used in aquariums with low oxygen conditions.


I would lay the blame on this stuff rather than the biozyme (bacteria and enzymes). Tanks with no filters are "low oxygen conditions". 
Use the big sponge, just turn the air down enough to keep the water in the tank. 

You can keep a betta in a bigger tank with no filtration, but you have to change water like you do in a bowl. The same amount of food that didn't kill a fish in 1.5 gallons, shouldn't kill him in 5. But you should change water with the same frequency. The ammonia and nitrite should spike in a new tank, but not that high. Like the biozyme contains ammonia to feed its bacteria and the easyban depleted the oxygen in the water. 

I would have just used Prime or Amquel+ because ammonia-detoxifiers are useful during "cycling' and a sponge filter. After a few weeks, you can switch to plain dechlor (assuming your tap water doesn't have chloramine).

I don't like to say "no chemicals" because I like chemistry. But don't add anything to a tank that you don't understand. Don't add any "myster meat" product that makes claims but doesn't tell you how it works. And don't make sudden changes to kH or pH. 

The fewer thing you add, the less likely you are to mess up. Keep it simple.


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## demon_mishi (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok this is starting to make a lot of sense.
So if I understand correctly, chemicals are uneeded unless its to dechlorinate the water I am adding into my tank when I do my water changes, correct?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Pretty much. If you are treating a disease, you need a med. If you are keeping a fish that likes water very far from yours, you might carefully adjust the pH and kH. If you are keeping difficult live plants you might fertilize. But everything you add to your tank should have a purpose and you should know all the potential side effects. The industry loves to sell us stuff to add to every tank all the time. But some products are useless and some are dangerous and most are a waste of money.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

emc7 said:


> pretty much. If you are treating a disease, you need a med. If you are keeping a fish that likes water very far from yours, you might carefully adjust the ph and kh. If you are keeping difficult live plants you might fertilize. But everything you add to your tank should have a purpose and you should know all the potential side effects. The industry loves to sell us stuff to add to every tank all the time. But some products are useless and some are dangerous and most are a waste of money.


amen ..................................


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