# Red Algae Problem?



## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Im not really sure what my problem is but Ive tried everything I can find out about.

Right I have a 13 US Gallon planted tank. Only a few plants but I wanted to see if they would do ok before I got more. Started off with an 18W standard T8 tube over the tank and was getting problem with what I thought was brown algae (but probably wasnt) and as the plants wernt growing that well I got a 36W Triplus T5 Bulb for the tank. Well it now looks lovely and bright. But Im still getting the brown on the plants, stones and gravel and I think Im getting a bit of green algae aswell.

I have tried different lengths of time to have the lights on and different lengths between water changes but nothing seems to help. Within a few days the algae is already reappering. I havent aded any fertilizer for a few months now as I thought I may have been that. Ive had a look at lots of pictures of algae and rather than the brown algae I now think it might be red algae just in a brown colour. Some of it is really hard to get off of the leaves but some of it just wipes straight off.

Can someone tell me what type it is from the pictures below. Im not really that worried about the green stuff at the mo coz that only seems to be on the stones and the glass and comes off with a good algae scrub every now and then. But this brown stuff looks horrible and needs sorting.

Sorry bout the bad pics but thats all I can get at the mo.


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## Aqua Essentials (Jun 23, 2005)

Hi Huugs

Have you tested your water for the usual algae growers such as phosphate and nitrate? If so what are the results?

As you have not used any fertilsers for some time, it sounds very much like the culprits could be in your tap water. From recollection, London is a hard water area and red algae is often found in tanks which have high pH and KH for some reason.

What are your water parameters and cleaning regime?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

CO2, CO2, CO2................. I cant stress that enough. Red algae or black beard algae or bba (whatever it is commonly called in your area) is one of the oldest algae out. It cannot be removed manually. Proper steps taken in time will ensure eradication of this pest.

1. Remove ALL infected leaves.
2. Increase CO2 to 30ppm
3. Ensure nutrients are in balance
4. Did I mention CO2?
5. Make sure trace elements are in the water (especially chleated Iron)
6. Need I mention CO2?
7. (Flourish excel overdoses work well once the tank is on its way to recovering)
If plants are winning, algae loses. The sureset way to do this is to make sure plants have everything they need in correct levels to starve the algae.

There are some more drastic ways to rid the tank of algae, including copper dreatments & bleach dips. These are hard on your plants and invertibrates also though.

Red algae thrives in water with a low or high gh.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

I forgot to say that the growth of it has actually near enough stop the last week as I havnt had the lights on because of the really high temperatures.

Thanks for the really quick reply. I havnt tested for Phosphate or KH yet I still have to buy tests for them so Ill try and get out tommorrow and grab them.
I know that the waterround me is quite hard though.
The pH is around 7.8 and the nitrates are probably somewhere between 40 and 80ppm. Im having trouble getting them lower than 40 even with daily water changes as my tap water actually has 20ppm in it anyway. Hence Why I want my plants to be doing well so they hopefully keep it abit under control.

In regards to my cleaning regime Im doing water changes probably every 3 or 4 days of about 20-25% and every other one is just water not doing the gravel vac. I do an algae scrub everytime I think it needs it which was probably every other water change.

As it my first real tank I didnt realise that the plants needed actual planting and just planted then in the foam and pot in the gravel. After I realised I had to plant them properly I took them out and the Hygrophilas actually had root growing out of the pot so it had grown. And I think there were more leaves aswell but some of them were a bit longer than they should be and they were a bit pale. The Anubias seems happier. The leaves are a better green and are pretty solid but it didnt seem to have that huge amount of root when I planted it properly. This was done around the same time as I upgraded the light aswell.

As for CO2 I dont have anyway of injecting it or anything at the moment becuase Im a little bit skint at the mo but I did have the filter on the lowest setting and with the outlet a few inches below the water surface so that there was no surface disturbance and it has been like that for the last few weeks. I dont really want to have to get a CO2 diffuser or anything unless I really need it. As its only a small tank I was told I shouldnt need it unless Im growing very advanced plants.

If I remove all the infected leaves that means there will be only a few on the hygrophilas and there wont be any on the anubias. Is that still ok to do? Would it just be better to replace them all?
So you think it probably is Red algae then?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

It looks like red algae to me. Pruning the leaves will not kill the plants, though they will not look good for sometime. The problem you will have is the bba is probably also on the gravel. You can take a chance of flourish excel. It has worked for me in the past. After pruning the worst leaves. Try a 3-4time overdose of flourish excel for 5-7 days. Turn the lights on for 10 hrs a day. If it works, continue regular doses of flourish excel for another week. It might work, it might not.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Ive been reading a few other things about preventing algae. It seems like lots of people have had success with putting an excess of nutrients in and the plants seem to somehow stop the algae because they are growing a lot. Is this something you have experience with working? 
Which are the ones to get if it does work?

Im guesing I dont have much CO2 in the tank so rather than buying an injector would the flourish excel do a good enough job? If it does then I would think about getting an injector in the future.
It says not to overdose the flourish excel on the seachem website but is that just advice does it harm the fish?

Sorry about all the questions just want to get it right. Im wondering because Im going to try and go shoppng for test kits later and while Im there I might aswell pick up nutrients and flourish excel if its worth it.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Flourish Excel is carbon, but not CO2. The reason I and many others have had success with it is it also contains a few chemicals that act as an algecide. Really does a job on cyanobacteria as well. I was pleased with the results it had on my tank. Federal standards prevent Seachem from telling us what exactly causes the algacide effect but many have specualted.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

OK so I now have the test kits for the other things. Here are the results:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40-80
pH 8.0

Phospate 2.5
GH 300
KH 200-210

I think even I know that those hardness and phosphate results are really high. Is this going to be a big reason fo rmy red algae?

My tap water results are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
pH 7.8
Phosphate 2.5-5.0
GH 320
KH 200

I wasnt able to get any FLourish Excel yet because my lfs's dont stock it so ill have to find somewhere else to get it. Ill have a look at your site AquaEssentials.

I have tried doing 20-25% water changes anywhere between every day and once a week. at the moment Im on about every 3-4 days. Nothing seems to help. I dont want to leave them any longer because of my trouble with the nitrates.
Anymore suggestions or comments welcome. I will get the flourish excel and Im gonna get a few more plants aswell.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Your nitrates are at toxic levels. Your PO4 is high also but its the improper ratio of No3 to PO4 which is likely causing your algae problems. With a PO4 level that high your nitrates should be around 26-30. Try to keep a 15:1 ratio of them.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Would carbon filtration remove some Nitrates? The probelem I have is that my tap water has Nitrates in it so I end out putting back in half of what I have taken out.

I know that it is bad having the Nitrates that high and I do change the water alot but it doent seem to help. Would really heavy planting keep it more under control?

Im going to look into getting RO water but Im not sure where sells it near me.

I havnt actually added any extra phosphate for the last few months it all comes from my tep water so there isnt much I can do with that.


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## Aqua Essentials (Jun 23, 2005)

As you are struggling with your high levels of Phosphates and Nitrates, an RO unit would be your long term answer. This allows complete control over your water parameters, and most certainly ridding you of your excesses.

If financially an RO unit is too much, there are many other remedies on the market which absorb both nitrate and phophate. These normally come in the form of a pouch that you pop into your filter.

If you had a heavily planted tank, your plants would certainly absorb some of your excesses but it is unlikely that they would absorb all of them as your readings are quite high. 

Hope this helps.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

I havnt really looked that much into RO units yet. Have you got a good guide price for me to work from? I have a strong feeling that this will be out of my financial reach.

I know having lots of plants will not remove the need to do water changes but would they atleast give me more of a chance at getting the levels down? Would changing alot of the water and planting more heavily mean they tleast keep them undercontrol?


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## Aqua Essentials (Jun 23, 2005)

I can find out prices for you regarding RO Units - PM me for more details

Other wise, reducing your water changes may help to a certain degree. Increasing your plants will certainly help to absorb the excesses but perhaps you should consider some type of resin to remove your phosphates and nitrates until you can afford an RO unit?


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Right well Ive had a bit of a deeper look and found a few prices but at the moment its out of my reach. 
Im going to buy more plants tomorrow and I think the lfs does RO water so Ill try and grab some. What are the things that I can use to absorb some of those nasties? Ive got a fluval 2plus filter so I dont know if the will work it as its only got the foam pads.


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## Aqua Essentials (Jun 23, 2005)

I recommend either Seachem PhosGuard or Seachem DeNitrate. They come loose and therefore suit small filters as well as large. They are also the most effective on the market.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I'd go with more plants. Depriving the tank of nitrates and or phosphates too much will onl;y increase your problem. They need to be balanced out, not eliminated as these to nutrients are macros for the plants.


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## Aqua Essentials (Jun 23, 2005)

I agree to a certain degree Simpte. To rid a tank completely of Nitrates and Phosphates will create an unnecessary imbalance and have a negative effect on the plants. However, it is much easier to add these macros at a later date than to actually remove them.

With that in mind, the situation would be improved by adding more plants but unless the tank is full of fast growing plants (not suitable/desirable for everyone) your phosphate and nitrate problems will still exist. This is where resin removals come into their own.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

My trip to the shop is soon to happen. Im gonna buy a barel of RO water which will be able to replace half the water in the tank and hopefully get those levels down a bit.

Im gonna buy 3 or 4 plants and I would like quick growing ones atleast for now anyway. Can you suggest half a dozen quick growing plants so I can have a look for them? I dont think they have that great a selection tho. I looking at getting a couple more plants that are up to about 25-30cm another that grows on the bottom and a medium one aswell.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Watersprite, Wisteria, Hornwort all work well, the first 2 probably being the best. You can also use poly fiber in your filter. It will remove Phosphates from your water without the trade off of adding sodium to your tank. Those chemical resins use ion exchange so what they take out, they replace with another element ususally sodium. This increses your tds (total dissolved solids) which is not healthy for a lot of fish.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Ive got some more plants. Unfortuantely none of the lfs's I tried dont have any of those ones. Ive bought a java fern, anubias nana (just because I like it not coz its first growing) what probably is another anubias not sure and a red and green bunch plant. Ive still got the hygrophilas in there and what I think is an anubias barteri.

Ive got the flourish excel from you richard so thanks for the quick delivery. It says for regular dosing put 1 capful for every 200 litres so Ive put in 2 capfuls for my 47litres. that works out at about 4 times the dosage. So I keep doing 2 capfuls everday for the next 7 days and then i think ill do it 1 capful every 2 days for a week and see how that goes. Does that sound OK?

Hopefully this will help. I did a 50% water cahnge and added the RO water in slowly. Over a couple of hours so to avoid shock. If this all hopes which hopefully it will then I wont need to look into getting the resin stuff. If it doesnt work Ill get some of those and give that a go. 
Thanks for the help both of you it is very much appreicated.


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## Aqua Essentials (Jun 23, 2005)

You could also use the classic vallis which tends to gobble up most extras in the water and it's also pretty cheap.

With regards to those chemical resins use ion exchange so what they take out, they replace with another element ususally sodium it's not true in this case which is why I recommend them. Seachem PhosGuard™ is not an exchange resin, it does not release anything into the water. Seachem Denitrate never actually exhausts but simply becomes less efficient with use by pore clogging. Even when it has preformed its job it doubles up by helping biological filtration.


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

Huugs said:


> Ive got some more plants. Unfortuantely none of the lfs's I tried dont have any of those ones. Ive bought a java fern, anubias nana (just because I like it not coz its first growing) what probably is another anubias not sure and a red and green bunch plant. Ive still got the hygrophilas in there and what I think is an anubias barteri.


I have three words for you: Greenline Aquatic Plants.
http://www.aquaticplants.eu.com/
They have a very good selection of plants, delivery is very prompt (I order on the weekend and always get the plants on the Tues or Wed after that), and the plants are really healthy when I get them. They don't always live, but that's just the way it is with plants. I like to try things that aren't ideal canditates for my tanks just to see if they will survive.

Most of the plants you have are very slow growing, the java fern and anubias nana especially. And I second Richard's suggestion of vallis: it grows very well in hard water. I have some growing in just plain gravel! But don't get the ordinary vallis; it gets much too long and will trail over the entire top of your tank. Get the twisted vallis, or even the giant twisted vallis; they are much shorter.

And I notice that the amount of brown algae in my 20 US gallon tank finally seems to be decreasing. Maybe it's because I recently put in some vallis and anacharis, which are both very good hardwater plants. My tank is looking nicer than it has for quite some time!


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Thank you MyraVan for that great site. I now have some twisted vallis winging its way to me. Hopefully in a week or so the levels will be much more under control and ill have a beautiful algae free tank. Well we shall see anyway.

Thank you again to the 3 of you for all your help.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

To those with experience of Flourish excel and everyone else who might be able to help:

Please can you have a look at my thread in the disease section. This is it http://www.fishforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3628
Just need some thoughts but I think its gonn abe fine.

MyraVan:

That plant site you gave me is great and the owner seems really friendly. Glad you told me it I think all my future plants will be coming from there. Thoroughly recommended.


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