# Ich Treatment Blues



## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

I'm a beginner and this is my first brush with ich. 

A little info before my questions:

60 gallon tropical freshwater tank (4'X2'X1')
Substrate: light colored sand
Planted with moss ball, scarlet temple, anachris, onion plant and corkscrew
Occupants: 
2 2" clown loach (yes, we will get a larger tank before they need it)
4 black skirt tetras (we are planning to increase to 6)
5 raspora hets
7 zebra long fin danios
0 neon tetras (but yesterday we had 5)
Last readings (taken today - between 2 15% water changes): ph-7.5, alkinity 120, hardness 150, nitrite .25, nitrate 15, ammonia 0
temperature: 80/81F

4 days ago we noticed some ich. So far we have treated with Kordon Rid Ich+ (malachite green and formalin) for 3 days (after removing the carbon filter). We vacuumed (our sand!) and did two 15% water changes. We treated the new water with a combination of Top Fin water conditioner and API stress zyme+. Last night we saw no signs of ich on our fish.This morning, 3 neon tetras were dead. We left the house for a little while and when we returned, 2 more neons were dead. The rasporas don't look as active as they usually seem and one of our clown loaches is hiding. I'm worried that he/she isn't doing well. 

I think we've got 3-4 more doses of Rid Ich+ to go, based on advice I've gotten in the chat room, the instructions on the bottle and things I've seen in articles online. 

Question #1: Does that sound right? I'm worried that it is the treatment that is now stressing our fish, but I don't want to stop treatment before the life cycle of the ich is complete b/c I know they are only vulnerable to medication while they are in the life stage where they are seeking a new host. At 81F, the life cycle should be about 4 days I think, but some spots in our tank don't seem to get above 80F. 

Question #2: Is there something else I can do to protect the rest of my fish during this treatment? I am worried that the neons were the "canary in the coal mine" and that tomorrow more fish will be dead. I don't want to do another water change b/c I just did a 15% today.

Question #3: When should I replace the filters during the treatment - after the last dose? Now (because we can't see any more ich)?

Question #4: Is there anything I should do with my live plants? Oh, and my moss ball has been floating since we vacuumed. What's up with that?

Question #5: I've heard I should run my tank ornaments (some rocks, a couple structures and a rock with a hole in it) through the dishwasher. I've also heard that I should not do that. I've also heard that I just don't need to do that because I'm treating the tank with chemicals, so they should be fine. Any opinions?

Question #6: Is there any way to test to see if our ich is gone besides just waiting to see if it comes back?

Anything else I need to know?

Thanks!


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Update: wm_crash in the chatroom suggested that I do a larger (50%) water change before the next dose of meds. I did and the loaches lived through the night One of them is way more lively already. I'll keep the medication regime up for the whole duration (3 days after the last observed spot) which will be 6-7 days total for me, but I'll do a larger water change (I was doing 15%) before each dose. Should I keep it up at 50% or try 25% or 30%? I don't want to destroy my water chemistry or lose all my bacteria...

Anyone want to help with my other questions? I am sure y'all are sick of ich questions and I've read through tons of forum archives, articles and books but I'm still not finding my answers.

Thanks!


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

#2: I don't know if you already did this because you didn't mention it, but never do a full treatment of ick cure on a tank that has loaches or other scaleless fish in it. Half doses are better because the loaches are so sensitive, and looks like your neons were too. 

#4: I don't think so, maybe just a rinse once the treatment is complete? Oh, and I though moss balls were supposed to float? 

#5: I don't think you should need to do anything with them. We've treated with ich meds and never washed the deco afterwards, our fish are fine. The thing I would worry about with a dishwasher is any film left on the deco once it's done (that you can't see). Who knows what that will do in your water? If you really want to clean them, you're better off rinsing them all in hot tap water and then letting them soak for a while in a bucket of dechlorinated water. 

#6: Not that I know of. Just stay on the lookout, especially for your loaches. They are notorious ick magnets. We had a heck of a time ridding our loach tank of ick.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Also tetras benefit by 1/2 does of ich medication even when the bottle does not say that unless of course you are using medication specifically made for 'sensitive fish"-- usually stated on the bottle.
if you are using 1/2 dose always double the time you do the treatments. Eg if it says 4 days should complete a treatment, do a water change and do another 4 days.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks for the information! I appreciate it very very much. I didn't do the 1/2 dose thing for the loaches. I guess I should start that now? Will that still be effective and rid my tank of the evil ich? I haven't done tonight's dose, but I plan to do another 50% water change and then add a 1/2 dose of rid ich+ and keep that going for the rest of the treatment. I guess I'll just rinse the ornaments in hot water and maybe I'll rinse the plants in warm water (but that's going to mess up the root systems) and toss the charcoal filter (that I removed before I started medication) once the treatment is finished. Thanks again for the help! I totally set up a quarantine tank and am working on cycling it. I am not going to go through this again any time soon!


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I've never tried Rid Ich so I certainly hope it works. But yes, the half doses should still work, it just might take a little longer. 
Like I said before, I swear by the API Super Ick Cure, but let us know if everything turns out well. I always like to know about good products 
I really wouldn't bother uprooting your plants unless they look like they're getting sickly or something. It's not worth messing up the roots if they seem to be doing ok.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Okay; good deal. I hate to extend treatment, but I want everyone to survive! I'll be sure to update on this thread with our progress.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Sad news - even though we did a 50% water change last night before meds, we lost a loach and a danio this morning. One more day of treatment is scheduled. Just did a 25% water change in hopes that we can keep with other loach alive.

I did water testing this morning when we found the bodies but things weren't that out of whack: Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 7.5. 

Folks have been suggesting that I increase the temperature further and add salt. I don't want to not listen to good advice, but at this point I'm more focused on things that will help my fish survive treatment, and less focused on things that will kill ich. We haven't seen any signs of ich since day 3 of treatment and I think that our additional days of dosing (4) should cover the ich life cycle at this temperature (80/81F) - I hope! I fear that increasing the temperature further will put additional stress on my dying fish. I have a bubbler going full blast, but they obviously aren't healthy now, so why would I do something that would make them worse? Salt is a little confusing too because I found a few online articles that suggest that it is contraindicated with Rid Ich+ (malachite green and formalin) and may make it harder for my fish to breath. I've also read that loaches are sensitive to salt. Unless it is directly beneficial to them, it seems like it is a bad idea. 

I hope that my choices about salt and temperature aren't hurting my fish and I'm open to information that contradicts what I've found. I tried to find some good books but nothing is that detailed or scientific at my LFS or bookstore. I've been searching for scholarly articles in peer-reviewed journals but I'm not seeing a general review sort of article, just examples of unusual cases.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I can't tell you which company it is, but one fish drug company states quite forwardly that using salt on fresh water fish damages them, and you should only use proper medications.
Some may say that it is because they have a vested interest in selling you more medications, but on the other hand they spend a lot of money to research and develop treatments for the industry.
I had a nasty outbreak of flukes in a fry tank last year and followed to the letter the info on the bottle. This was a Seachem product. When I phoned them to state that the product did not live up to it's claims they informed me that a full blown infestation did not respond to a few days treatment-- that I would have to treat for a full 10 days or better.
Actually I ended up treating for 5 days on, water changes 5 days off for a full 3 months until I got it wiped out.
The other issue you need to know about is that there are different types of ich- it is not just one type of parasite but a family of them so what might work for one type is not always going to work for the others. I had a a particularly resistent kind 3 years ago and it wiped out everything except a betta and a loach. (I was not helped by the fact that my mother in law died during the week of treatment and I was away for 3 days.The house reaked of dead fish when we got home). Sometimes you have to try different ich treatments before you get a handle on it.That is a collosal work load because I don't think it is good to mix different medications so there are plenty of water changes and plenty of carbon in and out of filters to be done.
These are some of the discouraging things in fish keeping and the Q tank is the best way to prevent a lot of these nasties.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Oh wow - 3 months? That's intense. I'm horrified to here about different types of ich. Oy. I hope that our situation isn't that bad. Knock on wood, we haven't seen any evidence of ich for days and I sincerely hope that it stays away this time. I'm so all about the QT tank now. I won't make this mistake again. So, we lost the other loach the day after the last treatment (even though were were keeping up with major water changes and things in the tank looked good). We lost a raspora at the same time. I sincerely hope that life gets better in the tank soon!


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2010)

i honestly hope you never have to deal with columinaris ever. if you think ich is bad, columinaris will wipe your tank out in a days time.

i would suggest you move the temp up to 84. 81 will not speeden up the life cycle of ich. and like mousey said, there are diff variants to ich. some of them are so resistant to any kind of treatment that only salt and warmer temps work in ridding them. this is then needed to be followed by huge water changes to rid the tank of any free floating larve or unhatched egg sacks.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks Eluviet. Yeah, I want to stay far away from columinaris!


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