# I can't keep livebearers.



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

I've kept malawi cichlids and a few tankbusters few many years, and I have to say hardly any of them have died apart from if maybe one eats another one or something like that.
Though whenever I keep platies, mollies, guppies or swordtails I can sucessfully breed them but have never kept a fish for more than a year. Having not had a single death from my cichlid tanks for over a year, whenever I have a livebearer tank I have at least one death a week. I don't think that it's anything to do with the water quality though.
People always say that guppies are the ideal starter fish, but I'm never successful with them. I had about 50 guppies given to me by a friend about 5 months ago, but at least every week I had a few births from pregnent guppies, and deaths from adults. But after a while they seemed to be dieing more often. After about 4 months there were hardly any livebearers in the tank, just one tetra left that I rescued from a friend as well. Now I've been keeping cichlids in the same tank as the where I kept the guppies, none of my cichlids have died. Guppies have always seemed week, slow fish to me. When ever I try to catch one they almost swim into the net and are very slow swimmers, In contrast my cichlids always run for cover and put up a good fight when ever they get netted. Is it just me or are guppies and similar fish more difficult to keep than they are made out to be? I think cichlids should be a starter fish not guppies.


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## guppyart (Jan 22, 2005)

I don't know about why they keep dying on you.

But cichlids cold be a starter fish but they grow to fast.
I have never had problems with either species but guppies do seem like a semi poor choice for starter fish. swordtails platies are really hardy from what I have noticed and will try to hide when you put a net in.


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

I've developed a similar opinion over the years... Honestly it makes sense if you think about it this way...

The more aggresive a fish is, the more likely it is to get into fights. Therefore, in order to survive, it has to be tougher, better able to heal, and better able to deal with just about anything that might make it less able to fight, like poor water conditions. It'll be better able survive pretty much anything when compared to a fish that never has to fight in the wild.

Tougher is tougher in my opinion, whether your dealing with a fight, shock, or poison (poor water conditions).

This is just what I've thought in my head, and I have no research or facts to support my arguement...

-Flynn


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2005)

well it's the same in many situations. goldfish have been made to be the perfect fish for bowls, whereas they usually need rather large tanks. so guppies are seen as starter fish and they're not really, and goldfish are seen as bowl fish and they're not.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Mollies, swords, and platies really need a high level of care, and don't deserve their reputation of being easy. They do make good starter fish though, because they tend to survive even when they look bad, giving the novice keeper a good way to learn how to recognize problems and fix them without having too many total wipeouts. Things like hardness, salt, an pH have to be learned, and these fish give the new keeper a good crash course in them.
Guppies, though, are a paradox.
While highly adaptable and easy to keep and breed when they are in good shape, they are rarely in good shape. The only good ones to be found are those from expert breeders. The rest are, by and large, junk. Over medicated and overexposed to poor conditions, inbred and poorly outcrossed, it's a wonder that the typical petshop guppy is even as robust as it is.
Naturally, if one should decide to devote an aquarium to the proper keeping of guppies, they can be kept in very good health. Even then, though, a guppy is old at a year, and not many make it to two.

If you're having problems, Cichlid Man, then know that you're not alone. Keeping guppies does require more dedication than typically thought, but not all _that_ much more, so if you really want to make a good effort at keeping them it shouldn't be hard at all. It's just a matter of making a few minor changes, I'm sure.


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## guppyart (Jan 22, 2005)

Baby_Baby said:


> everyone says guppies are stable fish and neons are fragile fish. with me its the opposite. the guppies are fragile and the neons are sturdy. I haven't lost one neon yet.


ummmm I have to say that is wrong my heater broke once and turned the tank into a hot tub and the neons where the first to go the guppies and angelfish survived


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

> Guppies, though, are a paradox.
> While highly adaptable and easy to keep and breed when they are in good shape, they are rarely in good shape. The only good ones to be found are those from expert breeders. The rest are, by and large, junk. Over medicated and overexposed to poor conditions, inbred and poorly outcrossed, it's a wonder that the typical petshop guppy is even as robust as it is.
> Naturally, if one should decide to devote an aquarium to the proper keeping of guppies, they can be kept in very good health. Even then, though, a guppy is old at a year, and not many make it to two.


I totally agree. I can keep some of the most sensitive fragile fish alive but when it comes to guppies they are dead in a week or two. I once brought home about 30 guppy fry from work and I figured ah they will die anyways, dang buggers lived so long I had to get rid of them.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

My first guppies I bought took almost a dozen fish before I got 2 to survive. Those two have now given me 3 tanks of fish. Alot of breeders allow their guppies to breed in heavy saltwater because they are located near oceans and using fishfarm techniques they use the largest nearby body of water for water control. Then they end up in stores and moved to freshwater tanks and have a hard time adjusting.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

flynngriff said:


> I've developed a similar opinion over the years... Honestly it makes sense if you think about it this way...
> 
> The more aggresive a fish is, the more likely it is to get into fights. Therefore, in order to survive, it has to be tougher, better able to heal, and better able to deal with just about anything that might make it less able to fight, like poor water conditions. It'll be better able survive pretty much anything when compared to a fish that never has to fight in the wild.
> 
> ...


Hey! I like your style flynngriff. . That really makes sense to me, and even though there's not much evidence I totally agree with you. You've really made a big difference upon how I see fishkeeping now. I'm so pleased with your post. Congratulations.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

TheOldSalt said:


> If you're having problems, Cichlid Man, then know that you're not alone. Keeping guppies does require more dedication than typically thought, but not all _that_ much more, so if you really want to make a good effort at keeping them it shouldn't be hard at all. It's just a matter of making a few minor changes, I'm sure.


Thanks OldSalt, maybe if I want to keep guppies again I should focus all my attention on them and not just leave them to one side like before. And who knows, maybe in a few years time and can earn the right to call myself guppy man! :lol:


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

Cichlid Man said:


> Hey! I like your style flynngriff. . That really makes sense to me, and even though there's not much evidence I totally agree with you. You've really made a big difference upon how I see fishkeeping now. I'm so pleased with your post. Congratulations.


Wow... Thanks for the compliment!

-Flynn


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

Hmm. I haven't had any problem with my Platy. As some of you have seen before, I kept wondering if my platy was ill or pregnant. It turns out she was pregnant, had fry (is still having them, good grief) and I didn't do one special thing to keep her well. I was even mean enough to throw her into a goldfish bowl (no goldfish of course) to let her have the next 8 fry that she did, and then toss her back into the fish tank until she starts having more. She is as healthy as can be.

The only difference may be that she is what the pet store called a "dwarf" platy...she's only 1" long and not gowing more at all. Other than that, I don't know why others have problems with them...they seem pretty tough to me. Maybe it's the variety..or I'm just lucky.

The only advice I can give is my water parameters...between 0 and .25 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrates, 8GH, (yes I finally figured out what that was) 8.0 PH, and 77 degree water, and a new whisper filter for a 10-15 gal tank. She and the fry (although I seperated them) seem very well.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Give her a month. She will probably have one or two more batches of fry just from her one night out. LOL


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

Lol I know. that's why I bought a lone platy that didn't LOOK pregnant. I thought if I just had one, she couldn't possibly end up having babies. I'm starting to think they're born pregnant...hehe.


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

I have never had good luck with guppies. I have bought probably 12 and none of them are alive now and most of them died within a few days of purchasing them. But alot of people say they can't seem to keep otos alive past the first day and I've never had that problem. And for that matter, neons are supposed to be easy to keep but I can never seem to keep them alive. But my friend has a 5 gallon aquarium with way too many guppies in it and they never seem to die! I don't get it at all. But I am kinda glad to know I am not the only that can't keep guppies alive, lol.


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## doggydad38 (Jan 18, 2005)

Guppies were one of the first fish I ever bought with my own money and I've been keeping ever since. I've been breeding seriously now for about 4 years and am about to start showing what I have. You need a lot of tank space to properly raise guppies and the one's you get from your LPS are junk. You need to get your initial breeding stock from a breeder and also keep a complimentary line to use as an outcross every 3 to 4 generations. Currently, I have three comlimentary varieties and 18 tanks to grow them out in. As a side note, you have to properly acclimate your new arrivals to your tank parameters. To do this takes a minimum of 1 hour, 2 hours is better. Many people follow the instructions they received from the fish store and release their new fish after floating them for 15-20 minutes. It's usually this method that causes the fish to die from the stress of trying to adapt. After floating, you need to slowly add your water to the bag until you've doubled the water volume. Let them float for a while longer before releasing them. Since I started doing this a number of years ago, I've lost very few fish, even when they've come from a part of the country that has dramatically different water conditions. Any variety of fish will respond better to this method of acclimation. Good luck all.


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