# Catfish with cichlids



## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm curious if there are any catfish, other than syno's, that I could keep with Mbuna's in a 55 gallon. I like the look of Raphael cats and I've heard they can hold their own against agressive fish, but the PH levels are what I'm worried about. 

I also really like Pictus catfish, and the fact that they live in groups and are active, but again the PH is an issue. The places I've checked said that both types of catfish are flexible with PH's so I'm wondering if anyone here knows for sure if I can have them. 

I'm not planning on keeping both types in the same tank. Whichever one works better, if any, will be the one I choose. Both are available at my LFS. I don't think they have any Syno's though, and that's why I'm wondering.


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

Pictus are the most common group of catfish kept with cichlids and raphaels would go fine but you never see them. I have a striped raphael and i've had him for about 4 years now and i havent had him grow an inch but thats mainly due to him hiding all the time and never eating.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Alrighty. Thanks for the response!


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Superfly, I think you are wise to be concerned about water conditions. You will get different opinions on this subject but I feel that fish should be kept in conditions as similar to "wild" as possible.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Alright, so it's a no go. After reading up, and taking what you said into consideration, these guys are happiest in a PH of about 6.2-7.0 while I'll be keeping my aquarium at about 8.6 or so. Guess I'll continue the search for Syno's or see if I can get a LFS to special order some for me. 
I don't even know if I'll keep any pleco's in there now. I'd say the water would probably do more harm than good to them.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Good call superfly. You're on the right track. I don't want to confuse the issue but it is actually the hardness of the water that is of concern more than the PH. Hardness and PH kind of go together so don't worry about it too much. You are doing well. good luck


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i don't know why getting synodontis is so hard down there..i get them all the time here in cleveland....
also keep in mind that most species of synodontis do not like hard alkaline water..most are riverine fish...but there are a few species that do live in the lakes...multipunctatus is one of the most popular because of it's breeding habits..when the mbuna are spawning the multis run in and eat the mbuna eggs and leave their own ..the mbuna female will pick them up thinking they are hers and take care of them..the catfish eggs hatch first and the fry will eat the mbuna eggs..very cool fish..


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## RLHam3 (Sep 17, 2008)

don't get the pictus they need soft acidic water and your africans need hard basic water. (syno need a high pH as well)


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## llamas (Jun 29, 2009)

I heard that African feather-fins may do well with them.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah, I actually found some Synodontis. I now have 2 Synodontis Eupterus (1 male and 1 female) both around 2 maybe 2 1/2 inches in the 55 with the Peacock Cichlids and they're doing great. 

For anyone that lives in Georgia, more importantly the metro Atlanta area:
There's a store on Barrett Parkway called Optimum Aquarium. Probably the best store I've seen by far. Their Marine and Saltwater selection is just awesome, and they sell alot of freshwater fish I havn't seen in most stores. That's where I got my Synodontis. I got them $10 a piece. They also sell Peacock Cichlids. To sum it up, I highly recommend checking it out.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

very interesting.....how do you know that you have a male and a female....i hope the folks at the store didn't tell you..at 2-2 1/2 inches i doubt that anybody can tell the difference..
did they tell you that the eupterus will 12 or so inches long within a couple of years...
synodontis eupterus are not rift lake species..as i said before..most species of synodontis are riverine fish and not from the rift lakes..therefore they prefer a PH a little more on the acidic side..
lousy pic but this is a female eupterus...at 11 inches.......the male is to the right..


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Hmm... Interesting.

From the research I've done, the female is fatter and a tad darker. 

Also, I wasn't aware they got that big. Most websites told me they max at around 8".

I wasn't aware of most of the information you've just brought to my attention even after researching them for quite some time.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

well.... i could very easily be wrong..maybe that fish is just a fat male..and maybe it was only 5 inches ;instead of 11...
i could be wrong.........but i am not..those fish were in my tank...i even watched them spawn a few times..but the hoovers got all the eggs...eupterus are commonly bred in captivity and are very cheap ; so i never bothered trying to keep the eggs..but maybe sometime i may do it for breeders award in our club.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or smart. I honestly appreciate the fact that you brought this to my attention. People who really deal with these fish hands on are more credible in my opinion than websites with fish information. And that's why I really enjoy this forum, because no matter how much research you do on fish you won't really know what to expect unless you talk to the people who actually keep them.

Thanks again for your response.


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