# In desperate need of help.



## Fish Kid 808 (May 30, 2011)

Hello there Fish Forums. I am in need of some help. Two days ago I bought 4 swordtails to go in my 10 gallon aquarium. After acclimating them to the water temperature, I put them in the tank (Making sure not to put any of the fish store water into the tank). I soon began to notice the fish having what looked to be little white spots and started turning white. Thinking it was just them getting used to the water I left the room. Before going to bed I looked at them and saw that they still had the white bumps. I still felt it was nothing and went to bed. The next morning I was shocked to find that my new fish were all belly up and dead. I removed them. 

Yesterday, thinking that the fish I bought the day before were already about to die, I went to a different fish store and purchased 4 female guppies. Again I acclimated them to the water temperature and then proceeded to put them in. I began to see white dots again and began to be worried but there was nothing I could do. I hoped for the best and went to sleep. This morning I woke up and found 2 of my guppies dead and the other two trying to swim and keep themselves upright. I removed the fish and did a 50% water change. One of the guppies then died in front of me. The other is still currently trying to keep itself upright. I noticed that it has only one white bump on her eye. I researched this and was horrified to find it is a disease in aquariums called "Ich". 

Now here is what really has me stumped. In the tank, I also have 5 
Neon Tetras that show no signs of illness. They didn't have any white bumps even though both new groups of fish did. 

Also I was irritated when I found out my 2 brand new heaters I bought don't work. The red light turns on when you plug it in then turns off after a couple of seconds and doesn't heat the tank. They are the Tetra Brand. I know you may feel that it's my fault because I bought cheap heaters but I am on a limited budget. Also, while researching heaters, all of the heaters had reviews of not working and malfunctioning. Now I'm wondering if the water temperature is what directly killed my fish or indirectly in the form of creating an "Ich" outbreak.

I have no water test kit so I cannot tell you the parameters of the water. I know I should have one but like I said earlier, I am on a limited budget and didn't feel it was a necessity. 

So now I have a 10 gallon aquarium with no heater, 5 healthy neon tetras and a female guppy fighting for her life. My questions are: 
What is the cause of these deaths?
Why aren't the neon tetras getting sick?
What can I do to rid my tank of what I think is "Ich"?
What should I do in the future to prevent this from happening again?

I'm really discouraged and am considering draining my tanks and giving up the hobby. I feel like the Fish Grim Reaper, buying them just to have them die in my tank. Any and all tips you have for me are very much appreciated. I know I've made many errors and feel free to call me out on them again. Thank you for reading.


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## kurka (Jan 2, 2012)

Dont give it up so fast, its from stress. When you put the fish in the new tank LET the water from the pet store go in the tank also. Its kinda shocking them going right to new water. u should be able to go to the pet store and ask them what to put in the water if u cant afford a lot u can try putting so aquarium salt in your tank walmart is the cheapest place in my area for supplies but i wouldnt get fish at walmart, u can also take ur water to ur lps and they will test it for u. stress coat is good also... im not an expert but thats what i think good luck


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

First of all, ich does not come in individual white bumps. It looks more like the fish is covered with table salt. Stress can cause change of color in fish.

Real ich:









Secondly, I would say it might have something to do with the way you acclimate the fish, or something in your water that your neons are used to but your new livebearers are not. I would suggest you dont get more fish until you determine the cause of the deaths.

A test kit is a really good baseline for determining water quality issues. I know it might not be in your budget, but see if you can get one before you try again. Neon tetras actually like acidic water, and livebearers (guppies and swordtails) like hard, alkaline water. If your pH was very acidic, your neons might be ok, but not the other fish.

Do you have a thermometer? What is the temperature reading? Temperature shock can cause such symptoms as well.

Your heaters may actually be working. They are designed to come on and off during the day to keep the temp in a range that you set. If it seems too cold, try turning the adjustment knob on it up.

It's also not a very good idea to add more than one or two fish at a time to an aquarium.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

kurka said:


> Don't give it up so fast, its from stress. When you put the fish in the new tank LET the water from the pet store go in the tank also


DO NOT LET THE WATER INTO YOUR TANK. That is one of the worst thing you can do for your fish tank. You did the right thing by netting them out and into your tank.

A lot of the time the fish have already been through a heck of a lot. They get shipped to the store, then have to be in an over crowded tank in bad conditions. This is why many pet stores have a warranty on their fish. Because they know that many will die within the first couple weeks.

Now back to your tank. You need to get your water tested. Take a sample to your LFS, and have them test it. This will give you an idea to start with. After this you need to get a water testing kit. They cost under $20 and tell you more about ur tank before something goes wrong with the fish.

Personally I think it is a good thing you went with guppies the second time. Swordtails need a MUCH larger tank then a 10 gallon. You also NEED a heater. You have tropical fish that need a specific temperature usually in the mid to hight 70's. If you just bought that heater take it back to where you got it from. If you've had it awhile, go to the store and buy a new heater.

As for the white spots. I don't know a lot about fish diseases. But i do know that many fish that come from the store are already infected with something. A more experienced person will comment soon and be able to give you more incite then i can.


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## Fish Kid 808 (May 30, 2011)

bmlbytes said:


> First of all, ich does not come in individual white bumps. It looks more like the fish is covered with table salt. Stress can cause change of color in fish.
> 
> Real ich:
> 
> ...


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Ah so that's what Ich looks like. Your correct and it didn't look like that. I acclimate my fish by putting the bag in the water for at least an hour then putting them in. After researching a little more, I have read that you should incorporate some tank water into the bag little by little. Is this true. 

I don't have a thermometer because I just bought the heaters 3 days ago and was going to go get one sometime next week. 

They don't seem to work. Every time I look they aren't on. I can tell the water is not warm enough. These heaters are preset to be 78 Degrees so there is nothing I can do about that. I am returning them and am going to get better ones. Is there a heater brand that you'd recommend?

Question abut the water test kit. Can you use it more than once? 

I appreciate your help and tips.


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## Fish Kid 808 (May 30, 2011)

Kimberly said:


> DO NOT LET THE WATER INTO YOUR TANK. That is one of the worst thing you can do for your fish tank. You did the right thing by netting them out and into your tank.
> 
> A lot of the time the fish have already been through a heck of a lot. They get shipped to the store, then have to be in an over crowded tank in bad conditions. This is why many pet stores have a warranty on their fish. Because they know that many will die within the first couple weeks.
> 
> ...


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I'll call my LFS and see if they offer free water tests. Can you use the water test kits more than once or are they a one time deal?

I know I need a heater. I did indeed just buy the heaters and am taking them back. Do you have a specific heater brand that has worked well for you or that you can recommend. 

When I was at the fish store they looked quite healthy, swimming around, no dead in the tank and none that looked infected but I wouldn't know what to look for anyway.

I appreciate your help and tips.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Fish Kid 808 said:


> I'll call my LFS and see if they offer free water tests. Can you use the water test kits more than once or are they a one time deal?


For the testing kit i recommend the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. You can get it at many LFS, especially if you have a Petco or Petsmart. With a kit like this you can use it many many times. Here is a link to what it is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1H074NDCVVS34RVBVKDP 





Fish Kid 808 said:


> I know I need a heater. I did indeed just buy the heaters and am taking them back. Do you have a specific heater brand that has worked well for you or that you can recommend.


When i was first starting out I used the cheap ones from walmart. They worked well for me with a 5g and 20g. But now i use Aqueon. But i'm sure there are better ones. I would recommend getting a small thermometer for your tank. They are just a few bucks, but that way you know what the temp is at. Even my heater now heats the tank different then what the setting is. So i go off of what my thermometer says. Just a simple one like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Marina-Floati...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1329610505&sr=1-1


But as bmlbytes said, don't get anymore fish for awhile. Wait until you get everything under control.

PS: don't give up. I have learned so much over the past couple months. When i first started keeping fish i did everything wrong. Just keep at it! The best thing you can do is keep learning and soon you will have a healthy happy tank!


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Have them check the hardness. Neon tetras are soft water animals, where most livebearers are hard water animals. If the neons are thriving, then the livebearers may have died because they could not acclimate to the soft water after being thrown in with now acclimation. Osmotic stress.

That said, livebearers and neon tetras really shouldn't be in the same tank. They have radically different water condition needs. In addition to the hardness, the pH they prefer is different, too. Neons prefer soft acidic water, and livebearers hard alkaline water.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2012)

bmlbytes: ich can come in at one white spot at a time. My clown loaches get ich with one white spot at a time. That is how ich produces and gets worse over time. My halfmoon betta had a white spot and then two. When I cleaned his tank I noticed that he had a few white spots on his body, then I treated for ich.

Fish Kid 808: I would keep an eye on your fish that you have in that tank. If you start to see the ich, treat them as soon as you can. Raise your temp slowly. Ich cannot survive in higher temps. I have dealt with ich with my clown loaches and my halfmoon betta. Ich comes and goes, that is how you know you have ich and not something else.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Get a good heater as it's worth the cost in the long run. In terms of cash fork out for the heaters first. In a 10 gallon you want a 50watt heater. That will do a good job of it and won't stress your heater. You cold get away with a 25 watt heater if needed. Just don't get one less than that. Get one that has a range of temperatures so you can set them. I have stealth heaters in my tanks. I have also used Visi-therm and those are very good heaters, more reasonable than the stealth would be. 

You want to get a liquid test kit. They are closer to 35 bucks but they give you hundreds of tests and well worth the cost. Like I said this is less important than the heater so save up for this and take the water into your LFS or even PetCo/Smart and get it tested. They will do it for free. a LFS would be more likely to use the liquid over the strips. Don't get the strips they are more likely to be inaccurate making them a waste of money. 

I am a little worried about your tank. You got 2 different breeds from 2 different sources and they had the same problem? Don't add fish just yet. If it were me I would treat the tank with Aquarisol as directed for 2 weeks, then let it sit and add fish later. That will help with anything that might be brewing in there. Others would not take that precaution, I just prefer to be on the safe side. I don't think Aquarisol is all that expensive but it can be tricky to find. I bought mine years ago so I don't remember the cost. You wouldn't need a big bottle of it or anything. I think I bought 4 ounces and it's still all good. Aquarisol is a good "it kind of does everything" med. 

YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO ADD THE BAG WATER TO YOUR TANK. Adding some tank water to your bag as you go along is great, it helps with any Ph differences that might shock your fish. Bag water carries with it every disease that might have been in the host tank your fish came from.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Oh and to heat your tank up in the meantime you can use a trick: If you have a plastic water bottle use that and fill it with hot hot hot water. Put a cap on it and put it in the tank. You will need to repeat this as the tank cools off so it is a huge PITA but it does help in the meantime.


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## Fish Kid 808 (May 30, 2011)

Thank you all for all your help. 

I am looking into heaters with an adjustable thermostat. It could have been Ich and then again it could not have. Either way I will be doing daily water changes for the next week. 

As for my water type. What fish can be safely kept with neon tetras that aren't too huge for a 10 gallon?

I will be taking all of your guy's advice and not buy anymore fish for a while and until I can get the tank under control. I will also call my LFS to see if they do free water tests. 

As for the female guppy, sadly she died. I think it has become official that I am the Fish Grim reaper. Hopefully though I can get better and this and change that title.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> Oh and to heat your tank up in the meantime you can use a trick: If you have a plastic water bottle use that and fill it with hot hot hot water. Put a cap on it and put it in the tank. You will need to repeat this as the tank cools off so it is a huge PITA but it does help in the meantime.


This is an awesome idea, i would have never thought about that!


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

You need small soft water fishes to be compatible with neons. But, before you even start thinking about stocking, make sure you understand what the conditions of your tap water are. Sooooooo much easier to match the fish to the water than match the water to the fish.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Fish Kid 808 said:


> Thank you all for all your help.
> 
> I am looking into heaters with an adjustable thermostat. It could have been Ich and then again it could not have. Either way I will be doing daily water changes for the next week.
> 
> ...


Don't feel too bad about killing guppies (or any fish for that matter). Most beginners have issues and it's not always the complete fault of the person, just bad luck, bad fish, and a general ignorance (which is not a bad thing - it's just not knowing any better/knowing how to handle fishy situations). We've all been through it. It sounds like you're trying to do the right thing, and that's what is important. 

My husband and I have six thriving fish tanks, some of which include "harder-to-keep" fish like loaches and African Butterflyfish. But something about the water here - we can't keep guppies to save our lives. People will put them in an unfiltered, unheated bowl and they'll be alive for a year, but when we try, they usually go belly-up within days. Sometimes, it's just how things go.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Where does Hawaii get its water from? Desalinated water could be way too soft for livebearers. Imported water may have chemicals in it to keep it safe for humans. I can't imagine that there is a good source of freshwater on the little island state.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Kimberly said:


> This is an awesome idea, i would have never thought about that!


Kimberly it is close to impossible for me to read your posts/ responses. Font is beyond too small.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I agree. The small, colored, italicized, serif font is too difficult on people with poor eyesight like me. It looks pretty, but I find myself sometimes skipping some of the longer posts you make. I really dont like doing that, since your input and questions are valuable to me. Any chance you could set your font back to the default? It's so much easier for me to read at least.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> Kimberly it is close to impossible for me to read your posts/ responses. Font is beyond too small.





bmlbytes said:


> I agree. The small, colored, italicized, serif font is too difficult on people with poor eyesight like me. It looks pretty, but I find myself sometimes skipping some of the longer posts you make. I really dont like doing that, since your input and questions are valuable to me. Any chance you could set your font back to the default? It's so much easier for me to read at least.


Haha! This really made me laugh! Sorry guys! It might have to do with the fact my desktop has a HUGE screen, so nothing looks small on my end! 

How does this look? I just really love purple, i can't help myself :razz:


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Much better. At least for me it is.


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## Fish Kid 808 (May 30, 2011)

bmlbytes said:


> Where does Hawaii get its water from? Desalinated water could be way too soft for livebearers. Imported water may have chemicals in it to keep it safe for humans. I can't imagine that there is a good source of freshwater on the little island state.


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My house has it's own catchment tank. So my water is chlorine and rain water.


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## Fish Kid 808 (May 30, 2011)

hXcChic22 said:


> Don't feel too bad about killing guppies (or any fish for that matter). Most beginners have issues and it's not always the complete fault of the person, just bad luck, bad fish, and a general ignorance (which is not a bad thing - it's just not knowing any better/knowing how to handle fishy situations). We've all been through it. It sounds like you're trying to do the right thing, and that's what is important.
> 
> My husband and I have six thriving fish tanks, some of which include "harder-to-keep" fish like loaches and African Butterflyfish. But something about the water here - we can't keep guppies to save our lives. People will put them in an unfiltered, unheated bowl and they'll be alive for a year, but when we try, they usually go belly-up within days. Sometimes, it's just how things go.


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It's nice to know that this is something most people have to go through. I really appreciate your comment. It makes me feel better about the whole thing. 

Thanks and I appreciate your and everyone's opinion. Thanks everyone for you comments and tips. I can always count on the people here.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2012)

You're welcome and I hope your fish live long happy lives.


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