# Input on equipment ...



## Ice

I'd like to hear some input or suggestions on equipment set-up for my SW aquarium before I purchase them. I've been doing quite alot of thinking and I may jump up to either 36 gallon or 40 gallon tank set-up to start and maybe move up to 50 gallons down the road. I might still stick with 28 (for now) but my mind will change after more researching and reading. With this in mind, the equipment will reflect on the 36 or 40 gallon tank.

Emperor 400 BIO-Wheel Power filter
Powersweep Powerhead (model 228)
Either the Maxi-Jet Powerhead/Pump 900 OR the Hagen AquaClear 50 Powerhead (for a #2 powerhead as a wavemaker application connected to a timer - Please advise on powerheads.)

Visi-Therm Heater (150 watts for 36-40 gallon tank; 100 watts for 28 gallon tank)

Either the Coralife Super Skimmer Needle Wheel Protein Skimmer (recommended by CollegeReefer) OR
Typhoon Hang-on Skimmer {both found in Foster& Smith website}

LIGHTING (also recommended by CollegeReefer) 

I'm going to go with the Dual Satellite Compact Fluorescent fixture (24 inch, 2 - 65 watt, 1 lunar light) $107.99 at Foster & Smith website

Any helpful suggestions and ideas will be appreciated.


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## Fishfirst

Skip the biowheel and get more liverock from the money you save. Also up the flow... 2 maxi jets 300gph would be good.


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## Reefneck

See comments in quoted text.



Ice said:


> Emperor 400 BIO-Wheel Power filter (Lose this)
> Powersweep Powerhead (model 228) (Junk)
> Either the Maxi-Jet Powerhead/Pump 900 OR the Hagen AquaClear 50See below)Powerhead (for a #2 powerhead as a wavemaker application connected to a timer - Please advise on powerheads.)
> 
> Visi-Therm Heater (150 watts for 36-40 gallon tank; 100 watts for 28 gallon tank) Use 2 50 watt heaters in case one fails.
> 
> Use 2 SEIO m620's for Powerheads. Top notch with a wide dispersment which is better for corals.
> 
> Either the Coralife Super Skimmer Needle Wheel Protein Skimmer (recommended by CollegeReefer) OR
> Typhoon Hang-on Skimmer {both found in Foster& Smith website}
> 
> The Coralife is a Good Skimmer for the money. there are better ones but they cost more.
> 
> LIGHTING (also recommended by CollegeReefer)
> 
> I'm going to go with the Dual Satellite Compact Fluorescent fixture (24 inch, 2 - 65 watt, 1 lunar light) $107.99 at Foster & Smith website
> 
> Decent lighting, Need more for most Clams & Corals
> 
> Any helpful suggestions and ideas will be appreciated.


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## Damon

Your lighting will depend on what you want to keep. PCs aren't very good for clams (have low par ratings) but there are a few you could probably keep.

I love VHO but thats just me.........


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## Osiris

Yes dump the biowheels! 

I would almost consider using one large pump even external and get a SCWD! just type it in at Drs F&S and you'll see what i mean better then using timers! Hmm as for the lighting does your tank have a canopy? for that price you could get a 175w MH system and keep virtually anything you want!


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## Ice

I am planning on having Live Rock (I'd love to get Premium Fiji Live Rock from vividaqauraiums.com) and Arag-Alive Sand live sand in my tank. Wow ! Eliminate the BIO-Wheel ?! I thought most fish tanks require a Power filter. I'm not planning on adding clams though. Polyps, mushrooms and some soft corals in some sort of starter pak of some kind.


To Reefneck : where do you place the 2 powerheads in the tank ? Opposite sides ? How far in water do you place them ?


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## Osiris

nope none of my reefs do even the one holding tank of liverock and sand just has powerhead in it...the rock is the filter the sand is the atom bomb in the making.


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## Fishfirst

Yep replace the biowheel.... the liverock IS your biological filtration (what a biowheel does) except it also uses a lot of the nitrates it creates by output of biomass ex. algaes such as coraline. Your skimmer however, will take up most of your organics and put them in a collection cup there by keeping nitrates out of the water as well.


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## Reefneck

Ice said:


> To Reefneck : where do you place the 2 powerheads in the tank ? Opposite sides ? How far in water do you place them ?


Best in the left rear & right rear corners pointing toward the center of the front glass so the flow from each collides there. About mid tank level seems fine.


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## Ice

Ok - I think I pretty much revised my equipment set-up list needed to start a possible 36 or 40 gallonSW tank. Please advise if I'm making some equipment errors or missing anything important stuff I'm going to need.

I'm ditching the BIO-Wheel power filter altogether due to fact I did not know that my live rock I have planned on adding IS my biological filtration. I do appreciate my new found knowledge to Reefneck & FishFirst. 

Either 2 SEIO m620 powerheads or 2 Maxi-Jet powerheads (not sure what model to go with  )

I decided to go with 2 Visi-Therm heaters depending on tank size I end up with in case one heater fails. I'm guessing to place one on each side of tank for better heat distribution.

I'm sticking with the Coralife Super Skimmer for now.

Lighting - After looking around in a couple of catalogs, I've decided to go with this pc lighting fixture - either the 30 in. or 36 in. depending on the tank size : 

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium...unar_aqualight_plus_deluxe_linear.asp?CartId=


However, since I was advised to ditch the BIO-Wheel, I keep feeling that I've always thought all fish tanks have to have a filter of some kind. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, am I still going to need a canister filter or some sort of filter regardless (mechanical or chemical) ? 

How is the tank being cycled without a filter when I first get it going before anything goes into it ? Do I cycle it with a skimmer and powerheads ?

Someone mentioned a SCWD setup. How is this set up with powerheads and what is the advantage to them ? I know it's economically smart and cheaper but how is it hooked up ? 

Are UV sterilizors optional ? Is a refugium optional for a SW setup ? 

I'm also looking to getting a Tap water filter because my city water is hard. A good idea to have ? I know Petsmart sells them for about $30.

Next question - with all this equipment I need, am I going to need an air pump or a sump pump of some kind along with some plumbing to run the skimmers, powerheads, and such ? Does the skimmer & powerhead come with some plumbing items I will need ? Please advise.


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## Reefneck

Ice said:


> Ok - I think I pretty much revised my equipment set-up list needed to start a possible 36 or 40 gallonSW tank. Please advise if I'm making some equipment errors or missing anything important stuff I'm going to need.
> 
> I'm ditching the BIO-Wheel power filter altogether due to fact I did not know that my live rock I have planned on adding IS my biological filtration. I do appreciate my new found knowledge to Reefneck & FishFirst. Good Move)
> 
> Either 2 SEIO m620 powerheads or 2 Maxi-Jet powerheads (not sure what model to go with  ) As I said, The SEIOS have a wide dispersment that no other can match. Even the Maxijet Mod can't match the wide dispersing SEIO.
> 
> I decided to go with 2 Visi-Therm heaters depending on tank size I end up with in case one heater fails. I'm guessing to place one on each side of tank for better heat distribution. Correct
> 
> I'm sticking with the Coralife Super Skimmer for now. Not a death sentance
> 
> Lighting - After looking around in a couple of catalogs, I've decided to go with this pc lighting fixture - either the 30 in. or 36 in. depending on the tank size :
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium...unar_aqualight_plus_deluxe_linear.asp?CartId=
> 
> Will do ok for softies. No Clams No SPS, No Anemones.
> 
> 
> However, since I was advised to ditch the BIO-Wheel, I keep feeling that I've always thought all fish tanks have to have a filter of some kind. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, am I still going to need a canister filter or some sort of filter regardless (mechanical or chemical) ? With plenty of Live Rock, Nothing else is needed. Cleanup crew handles the rest.
> 
> How is the tank being cycled without a filter when I first get it going before anything goes into it ? Do I cycle it with a skimmer and powerheads ? The bacteria grow in the live rock to complete the "Cycle". Can be done with damsels or with the fishless cycle methods others prefer.
> 
> Someone mentioned a SCWD setup. How is this set up with powerheads and what is the advantage to them ? I know it's economically smart and cheaper but how is it hooked up ? Best in a drilled tank. Requires a pump of it's own and could eliminate the powerheads.
> 
> Are UV sterilizors optional ? Is a refugium optional for a SW setup ? UV is great for a Fish Only Tank, Bad for a reef
> 
> I'm also looking to getting a Tap water filter because my city water is hard. A good idea to have ? I know Petsmart sells them for about $30. Get an RO/DI unit. You can find them on ebay for under $100. You will thank me later.
> 
> Next question - with all this equipment I need, am I going to need an air pump or a sump pump of some kind along with some plumbing to run the skimmers, powerheads, and such ? Does the skimmer & powerhead come with some plumbing items I will need ? Please advise.


 The Coralife Skimmers come with everything you need to make it go. No extra plumbing required for it of powerheads.


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## Damon

I perfer Won Bros. heaters. They are titanium and are less likely to get damaged if live rock collides with them. They also have an external temp set guage. Cost a few bucks more but well worth it. 

I like Marty's Idea with the MH. Love the ripple effect. (Which I still think you can get from VHOs Reefneck  )

I use the coralife super skimmer on my 75 reef and I love it. The 125 has a drain on the collection cup that I dont believe the 65 has.

Check your local reef clubs or places like reefcentral. You can find good quality used stuff like skimmers for cheaper than buying new. Thats what I did. The only new parts on my tank are sand, rock and my skimmer.

Be extremely patient. I know you've heard this and you'll hear it a lot more. You'll be anxious to add stuff sooner but the wait will be worth it. Plus you can look at all the coepods and worms and other various critters running around.


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## Osiris

I've heard from a few locals it's possible to get the ripple with VHO's which i would think be possible if the top of the water was moving pretty good with MH's top water barely has to move and you have ripples.


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## Ice

Wow guys ! Keep it coming !! This is great hearing different ideas and input. This helps alot ! Keep'em coming !! LOL !!


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## Reefneck

Forgot to mention that a Refugium IS entirely optional UNLESS you want to keep a Madarinfish or a Scooter Bleeny (Both Dragonettes) in which case a Refugium then becomes MANDATORY!


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## Ice

As well as other Blenny species ?


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## Damon

No. Those particular dragonets rarely take to frozen or dired foods. They feed mainly on coepods in your tan kwhich will become depleted if there is no "refuge" for them to breed in. You see many of the little critters in your tank in the beginning but if you add one of these creatures, they will be quickly diminished if no shelter is provided for them.


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## Ice

How about this compact lighting system ? 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11348&N=2004+113345


Would this be better ? What if I increase the wattage from 2 - 65 watt bulbs to 2 - 75 watt bulbs for better lighting ?

Any good ideas or suggestion would be good. I know I won't be able to afford the MH as of now but at least I can start with an orbit pc lighting. 

My mind is made up regarding the powerheads. Gonna go with the SEIO powerheads ! Now time to shop around for good prices on them ! LOL !!

Going to stick with the Coralife Super Skimmer and now shopping around for the RO/DI unit. Great input guys ! Keep it coming !!


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## Damon

There is no such thing as a 75 watt pc bulb  They come in 13, 18, 28, 36, 55/65, and 96. It would really help to know the length and volume of your tank. You may be able to go 2x96 if the tank is long enough. Or go 2x55/65 (there is no difference between a 55 watt and 65 watt bulb in temrs of par and effeciency) and maybe a single or twin tube T5 or even N.O. flourescent.


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## Ice

Oh I see. What's the difference between the satellite and the orbit pc light fixtures ? :?:


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## Damon

Orbit fixtures are better quality. They come in larger sizes with more moonlights and fans.


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## gdwb10101

I use my biowheel filter only for mechanical filtration. Not even necessary. Most of the time I dont even have the pads in to collect the dirt, only when im cleaning up. Just have it as a really expensive powerhead. But i plan on transforming it into a HOT refugium and buying another power filter so i can have more fuge. Also I have the prizm protein skimmer (DO NOT GET THIS) for free so im upgrading to the coralife needle wheel or aqua-c remora 

I know you will probably read this in other posts, but please consider buying metal halides. It will save you alot of money in the long run if you plan of upgrading your reef to include hard corals and clams.

Like Reefneck said, try to get a drilled tank, mine isnt drilled and I can't stand not having a sump for a fuge. Personally, I would love to have a 40g+ refugium under my 55. I think that fuges are better than wet/dry filter systems when dealing with reef aquariums.

I use a DSB, deep sand bed, I think it works great, but you should get a general consensus from other reefers about that. Don't get a canister filter, its a waste of money. Try to buy most of your live rock at one time, because its easier to move around. Guess thats it for now


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## Damon

bump. This is one of the best threads I've read in a long time. DOnt wanna lose it


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## Ice

Well - ya got me to thank !  Now I have a good question for all :
Since I have now decided on going with the orbit fixture (probably the 30 inch or 36 inch if tank allows it), what type of coral would I be able to put in the tank ? Will the orbit be able to be sufficient for soft poylp corals, mushrooms, and others ? I'm looking to add a starter coral pack such as these : http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=714


OR these : http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2033


Or even these : http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2319

When can I add these ? Before I add the fish or anytime after ? I know it's usually best to wait awhile before jumping into adding them to the tank.


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## Damon

Coral selection will depend on tank size but you should be able to keep softies, most lps and a few sps depending......... I could be wrong though.


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## harif87

gdwb10101 said:


> Like Reefneck said, try to get a drilled tank, mine isnt drilled and I can't stand not having a sump for a fuge. Personally, I would love to have a 40g+ refugium under my 55. I think that fuges are better than wet/dry filter systems when dealing with reef aquariums.


You dont need a drilled tank to have a fuge. If your tank isnt drilled all you you need to buy is an overflow box. It just hangs over the side of your tank and lets water overflow into the box and then down into the sump. Fuges are a great way to keep nitrates down.


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## Ice

Well, I was just in ebay and found a nice complete 30 gallon tank w/ hood & stand. I already made the bid and the best part of it all : it's located in Syracuse and they will deliver to Utica & Rochester area if I win it !


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## Fishfirst

Yes to the first two links... a No for the last link you gave. Acros need intense lighting and around 15-20X turn over. Montipora however might do okay, probably won't grow like a weed like they do in metal halide situations but won't die either.


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## Ice

Just to let you know the specs on the tank on ebay I found and bidded on. It's a 30 gallon Long (36L x 12W x 17H) and come with a granite grey stand. Looks nice but willhave to wait and see what happens. I got to thinking, the long version seems like not alot of room to play with width wise. Heck even if I won the bid, I can always re-sell it locally for double the price if I don't like it.


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## gdwb10101

about the drilled tanks, you don't need them, but its much better if you have them, because you don't have to worry about an overflow.


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## Ice

I just wanted to double-check & triple-check on something to be safe. I was reading The Complete Encyclopedia of the Saltwater Aquarium by Nick Dakin last night. In the Setting up the Aquarium chapter, he talked about setting up an intake line on one side of the tank and a water return line on the opposite side (both are hooked to an external filter - canister?) he also mentioned installing a Fluidized sand bed filter as well. Not sure what that is or necessary. Anyways, it did show it was a live rock with live sand tank set-up. 
I guess what I want to know is how do you mature the tank (before adding the fish/inverts) for a few days to bring the reading of ammonia & nitrite level to zero with just a protein skimmer, heater, & powerheads ? I realize the live rock is the biological filtration system but how can the skimmer take the waste out if there is no fish in it yet ? I know I may sound like a broken record or beating it a dead horse about this, but are you sure I don't need an external filter ? What about a Fluidized sand bed filter ? 
When maturing the tank with live rock / live sand, do you recommend to run the lights on a timer as you would before any livestock are added ?


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## Fishfirst

lol, its okay to be confused... we enjoy it... jk

Seriously though... when you get liverock, it almost always has some die off... creating an ammonia source for that bacteria that lives within it to feed off of. And the sponges/corals/invertibretes you get hitch hiking on the rock also go through metabolic processes, creating more waste. Which also feeds your bacteria. Once ammonia and nitrites are at zero for a few days... then you can add your clean up crew... 

The fluidized bed is unnecessary as well as an external filter... this is where the salties differ from the freshies, and its important that you understand that nitrates are the enemy in marine systems (which the fluidized bed and external filter will make)

BTW have you ever considered a quarentine tank?


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## Ice

Aw, hell yeah - I have considered setting up a quarantine tank ! :lol: Thank you for finally clearing that up for me. Now I totally understand why the external filter & fluidized sand bed filter is not needed. All I need to do is mature the tank with the live rock & live sand before actually buying any livestock for a few days using only the heaters, skimmers, & powerheads; correct ? The ammonia & nitirites level has to read zero for 3 - 4 consecutives days, right ?


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## Damon

Tank maturation will depend on several things.......
1. Quality of liverock. Purchasing dead rock or rock in poor shape (dont skimp on shipping) will lead to more dieoff and more time for the tank to mature.

2. Substrate. DSB provide more biological filtration but have down sides to them as well. Bare bottom offer nothing in the way of filtration. A lot of food for your fish and other critters will live in the sand bed also (coepopods). 

3. Skimmer. A good quality skimmer will remove the excess nasties before they can break down in the tank.

I went cheap on my liverock and most of it was base. Took a month before I felt secure to add a cleanup crew. Purchasing all premium rock will shorten this time considerably but cost a lot more.


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## Ice

Been thinking about getting premium Fiji live rock myelf. I am well aware with the live rock having to be cured first before adding to tank. See my topic link on live rock for more. As far as sand goes - I'm going with the Arag-Alive. 

Although what grade should I get is another question I need to ask. Which grade is better ?


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## Fishfirst

a mixture seems to be the best route as far as sand sizes... some smaller stuff some coarser stuff.


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## CollegeReefer

Ice said:


> Been thinking about getting premium Fiji live rock myelf. I am well aware with the live rock having to be cured first before adding to tank.


Actually the best thing you can do with uncured rock is place it in your tank right away and let it cure in your tank.


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## Reefneck

CollegeReefer said:


> Actually the best thing you can do with uncured rock is place it in your tank right away and let it cure in your tank.


As long as nothing is IN the tank. Otherwise you'll kill everything.


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## Fishfirst

lol I think thats what CR was going for


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## CollegeReefer

Fishfirst said:


> lol I think thats what CR was going for


Yeah, knowing that ice is just planning his tank i knew he woudln't have any livestock in his tank yet. Good point thogh Reeneck.


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## Ice

A question for FishFirst - regarding the mix of different sand grades, how would you ratio the fine with the coarse sand ? In other words, how many pounds of fine and how many pounds of coarse ? Would you mix them altogether before putting them in the tank ?


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## Ice

Will I need a sump pump as well ?


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## Fishfirst

Yep you'll need a sump pump. Find out what your overflow is rated for and then find a pump to match that overflow rate at approx. "head" at a certain footage... for example

Your overflow rates 600 gph
Your pump rates 900 gph
Your tank is 4 feet tall

Pump has a chart on the box that looks something like this
0' - 900 gph
1' - 850 gph
2' - 780 gph
3' - 650 gph
_4' - 570 gph_
5' - 360 gph
6' - 250 gph

On the note of the sand. A good 25% coarse with 50% medium and 25% fine sand would be a good mix. The ratios aren't extremely important.


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## Damon

Is it necessary? No. Is it very, very helpful in mataining waterquality and foods? Absolutely.


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## Ice

Ok now - what is required for a sump pump set-up ? How is it connected to tank ? I'm kinda confused with determining the overflow rate. I'm probably will go with the SEIO powerheads, m620 (2 @ 620 gph ea.). What did you mean by tank is 4 feet tall example ? Are you talking about 4 ft from the floor to top of tank on the stand ? So confusing yet learning.  I don't understand pump rates but I guessing it depends on the pump it's rated on. Give me some good pump brands that's affordable. I know the good ones will be better than the poor, cheap ones. I read somewheres not to skimp on the pumps for good ratings in giving out decent gph. Any good suggestions is helpful.

PS - Did you notice that this forum topic is getting THE most responses and viewings ? This is awesome and I'm glad I found this site. Keep up the great advice & suggestions. I know alot of times a local fish store that specializes in aquatics (FW & SW) sometimes don't take their customers too seriously to take the time to talk and give advice in running a successful tank. I know the one near me isn't too helpful but more so interested in making a profit. At least to my impression. Everytime I go there, he seems more interested in talking on the telephone or doing something else when he knows I have asked him a few questions but not offering any suggestions and advice. There's not too many good fish stores here that sells SW in my local area. That's why my equipment & livestock (including live rock & Arag- Alive) will be thru mail order. Are any of you run a business dealing with SW ? I believe Reefneck is one of them. Do you have a website I can go to ?


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## Damon

I've found that very few stores take the time to help you for any period of time. Its the nature of the business I guess. For on-line stores, I'd go to http://www.premiumaquatics.com. I call them all the time and they even have on-line chat with a specialist who will answer your questions (though I don't know how long they can stay on with one customer at a time. Great priceing and will explain any product to you they carry and give their experience with it if they have used it (way too many products to try all of them). They are located in Indiana so shipping to the east coast or midwest is cheap also.


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## Fishfirst

Basically you have your main tank, and then underneith it you have a sump. The overflow box continuously siphons water down to the sump which filters the water through protien skimming and possibly macro algae (which would make it a refugium) Then the water is needed to be returned to the main tank. A pump can only pump water so high and you eventually reach whats called "Max Head" that is - the highest point to which a pump can pump the water to. On the box of your pump, you will see a chart that shows flow rates at a certain height. So if your sump is 4' lower than your tank, your pump which is originally, say 900 gph, is now pumping water at 600 gph once it reaches to top of the main tank, because of the resistance of gravity. If you over size your pump, you will overflow the tank because the overflow box will not be able to keep up with the rate of return from your sump. 
In order to control that you either get a ball valve to control a bigger pumps flow to a lower level, OR you get a pump that will just slightly under shoot the gph of your overflow box when it has to pump a certain height.


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## Reefneck

Ice said:


> Are any of you run a business dealing with SW ? I believe Reefneck is one of them. Do you have a website I can go to ?


I'll send you a PM when the forums let me. Keep getting an error now.


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## Damon

Reefneck said:


> I'll send you a PM when the forums let me. Keep getting an error now.


Clear your cookies Reefneck.


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## Ice

OK, I came across a nice RO unit I'm looking to get. Saw it at marineandreef.com for $148.99 but gonna shop around to get best price. I think that's a pretty decent price actually. I even printed up the instruction manual and it's really simple to hook-up. Can't wait to get it ! LOL !!

Here's the unit I'm looking to get :

Pure-Flo II RO Unit - 50 GPD TFC - 3 Canister

These units feature:
50 GPD TFC membrane
1 micron filter cartridge
Carbon block filter cartridge
Deionization Cartridge 

Ideal Source Water Conditions: 
Chlorinated or non-chlorinated water supplies 
Water pressure - 60 PSI 
Water temperature range: 69 - 78 degrees Fahrenheit


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## Reefneck

Thats a decent unit Ice but it is RO only snd not RO/DI. Still tons better than Tsp water but not as good as it can be. Look for an RO/DI. They can be found in the same price range.


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## Ice

Give me the item you're talking about exactly. I thought that is what this one is.  Show me a link of product so I'll know what to look for when shopping around.

Also would it be better if I go with one that give out anywhere from 35 - 40 GPD in a unit ? I'll probably get a 40 - 46 gallon tank anyways.


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## Reefneck

No, I have 2 75G tanks, A 29G tank and a 55G tank. my RO/DI is only a 25GPD and does just fine. I store the water in a 44G Brute can.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Reef-Aquarium-R...9QQihZ017QQcategoryZ20756QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That is an example of an RO/DI unit.


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## Ice

This a RO/DI unit ? Found this in premiumaquatics.com. 

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=PR-RODI50&Category_Code=Premiumreef

If so, then I know how to shop around more. Did see some in ebay cheaper though. : )


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## Damon

Yes that is a 4 stage RO/DI unit. Not a bad price either. There are 5 and 6 stage units as well. 4 normally gets the job done. Ebay has great prices but be careful as getting replacement filters may not be easy.


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## Ice

Thanks, Damon. Gonna keep that on my wish list.


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