# Many lessons learned



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

When I had my 10 gallon tank, I was keeping goldfish with tropical fish. I knew it wasn't recommended, but I managed by keeping the temperature at 74 degrees. It was the high end for goldfish and low end for the tropicals. I never kept fish, nor had the desire until I won two feeder goldfish at the fair. Those died very quickly. 

I was able to get a great deal on a 55 gallon tank with the hoods, lights, and stand included. We worked hard on getting it ready for our fish. The stand was sanded, stained, and finished. I never thought I would find myself doing any of those things, but enjoyed making it my own. The hoods that came with the tank was on a saltwater aquarium. I used a razor blade, vinegar, some elbow grease, and a lot of patience to get them cleaned up. It took about two weeks to get the tank all cleaned up and stand ready. 

I asked my mom if she wanted my goldfish because they limited what I could keep. I wanted to rise the temperature to a more suitable environment for the tropicals and do a community tank. She agreed. We had to put in two floor jacks to support the tank weight before filling it with water and letting it heat up to 80. Then I added my 4 little fish: 2 mollies, a small plecco, and a pink glofish. 

My co-worker was looking to get rid of her goldfish. She said she had 4 goldfish that were kind of big, 2 plecco's, and an albino catfish. I asked my mom if she wanted the goldfish, a plecco, and the albino, which she agreed to. When I went to pick these fish up I almost lost it! Kind of big is an understatement. The four goldfish were big enough to go into a coy pond! The two pleccos were beasts. Both approximately 7 inches in length...

Her husband put all the fish in one freezer bag. The albino was getting crushed under the weight of all the others. I took out one of the big plecco's (which skidded across my counter) and stuck it in my tank and had to rush the other's to my moms. The water was too warm to stick the goldfish in my 55 gal. We were unable to float the fish in the bag because there wasn't enough oxygen and had to dump them in. Two of them looked like they wouldn't make it from the shock at first, but somehow they all pulled through. (I learned quickly to look at fish before agreeing to take them!) All those massive fish, minus the one plecco were in a 10 gallon tank along with 2 other goldfish I gave my mom originally! 

We kept the fish in the tank over night, not wanting to move them again and risk shocking them twice. The next day I gave my other ten gallon tank to a friend who wanted three of these 5 inch goldfish. I knew that the tank was still too small for these fish, but it was the best that any of us could do for the time. I asked my co-worker what size tank she kept all these fish in and she told me a 25 gallon. I don't know how all these fish survived for years in a 25 gallon tank! I offered to buy the 25 gallon off of her, but she gave it to me. I gave it to my friend in order to better house these 3 huge fish. 

The pet store took one of the large plecco's and I kept the other one in my 55 gallon. I ended up giving my mom the small plecco I had bought because it fits the 10 gallon tank for now. I really wanted to watch my little plecco grow big in my 55 gallon tank, but knew that my mom could use it more for those messy, nasty goldfish!

I have learned a heck of a lot in a short period of time. I wish I would have researched before I decided to start my big tank, but was ignorant to how much work they were to establish. After I get this tank sorted out with the nitrites, I am going to try to talk my boyfriend into another tank. I will definitely do a fishless cycle! I feel awful for being so ignorant on the matter, but I have learned from my mistakes. I want another tank for aggressive fish.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

*Calculations..*

Equipments:

Tank (LxDxH): 48 x 12 x 21 inch (52.4gUS)
Filters: Tetra Whisper EX70 


Selected species: [Edit Species]

2 x Black Skirt Tetra (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi)
1 x Common Pleco (Pterygoplichthys pardalis)
1 x Dalmatian Molly (Poecilia latipinna hybrid)
3 x Glass Catfish (Kryptopterus minor)
2 x Glowlight Tetra (Hemigrammus erythrozonus)
2 x Guppy (Poecilia reticulata)
2 x Molly (Poecilia sphenops)
1 x Silver Dollar (Metynnis argenteus)
2 x Ruby Shark (Epalzeorhynchos frenatum)
2 x X-Ray Tetra (Pristella maxillaris)
1 x Glo Fish (Danio rerio)
1 x Buenos Aires Tetra (Hyphessobrycon anisitsi)
1 x Gold Barb (Puntius sachsii)



Recommendations/Warnings/Suggestions/Notes:


Warning: Black Skirt Tetra will likely to fin nip Dalmatian Molly. Try increasing the number to 6.
Warning: Black Skirt Tetra will likely to fin nip Guppy. Try increasing the number to 6.
Note: Common Pleco needs driftwood.
Warning: Common Pleco is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 18 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Glass Catfish are recommended in a group.
Warning: At least 5 x Glowlight Tetra are recommended in a group.
Warning: Ruby Shark is too aggressive to co-exist with Glowlight Tetra.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Guppy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Molly, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Warning: At least 5 x Silver Dollar are recommended in a group.
Warning: Silver Dollar will likely to fin nip Dalmatian Molly.
Warning: Silver Dollar will likely to fin nip Guppy.
Note: Ruby Shark may jump - lids are recommended.
Warning: Ruby Shark needs to be kept alone.
Warning: Glowlight Tetra may become food for Ruby Shark.
Warning: X-Ray Tetra will likely to fin nip Dalmatian Molly.
Warning: X-Ray Tetra will likely to fin nip Guppy.
Warning: At least 5 x Buenos Aires Tetra are recommended in a group.
Warning: Buenos Aires Tetra will likely to fin nip Dalmatian Molly.
Warning: Buenos Aires Tetra will likely to fin nip Guppy.
Warning: At least 5 x Gold Barb are recommended in a group.
Warning: At least 5 x Black Skirt Tetra are recommended in a group.

Warning: At least 5 x X-Ray Tetra are recommended in a group.

Warning: At least 5 x Glo Fish are recommended in a group.

Warning: Your selected species may eventually require 235% of your aquarium space. You may need to deal with territorial aggressions later on. Try removing some of (Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Puntius sachsii) or get a larger tank.

Recommended temperature range: 75.2 - 75.2 F. [Display in Celsius]
Recommended pH range: 7 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 11 - 15 dH.


Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 48%.
Recommended water change schedule: 76% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 51% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 154%.
Your tank is overstocked. Unless you are an experienced aquarist who can meet the maintenance/biological needs of this aquarium, lower stocking levels are recommended.


So... I figured out the nitrogen cycle... Yet messed up again with the stocking. Almost every single fish that is in my tank was in the SAME community tank at the pet store. I saw how they interacted and figured it was fine. I got a Silver dollar and 2 skirted tetra's from PetSmart. The pleco was inherited by chance. Those are the only fish that were in other tanks. :sad:

I'm not good at this.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

In the stores its so tempting to get one of this and one of that and the pics on every pretty box show it. But schooling fish can be stressed and nippy in small group or singly. Sometimes a mixed school will work, often not. Except for the silver dollar, the pleco and the ruby shark, most of those fish stay small. Keep the live-bearer population under control, remove those 3 when they start out-growing the rest and you should have a reasonably stocked tank. When you see nipping, grab the nipper and trade it for another fish of one of the species you already have. I would prefer to see 2 or 3 groups of 6 or more rather than that laundry list of fish.

Silver dollars are pretty fish, but they don't stop at silver dollar-sized, think more like plate-sized.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. The Ruby sharks are going to go. They co-existed peacefully until now. I had to separate them a few times. The one is in a floater hospital tank. They both have white looking patches on their bodies. I think it's damage from fighting, rather than ick. The one Ruby has a damaged fin too. We were told that they would stay small. 6'' isn't small. 

We got all these fish before I researched, I just took the advice of the pet store owner. However, I question the fish she keeps in her community tank. One of her cichlids got beaten up in the cichlid tank, so she put it in her community tank! It's working for now... but I would imagine that when it gets big enough, it will eat the other fish. 

When the plecco gets too big, I will release it. Since it is a common fish in my area, it won't hurt to put it in a lake. For some odd reason I'm attached to the giant sucker. 

I understand that the Silver dollar (Mercury) will get about 5'' big. I wanted to have one or two bigger fish since the others will stay small. Instead of getting more of a variety, I will get more of the schooling fish I already have so they don't get agitated. If I take the plecco and sharks out of the calculation, my tank is not close to being overstocked. Right now it works because they aren't their adult sizes.. all except the plecco. The plecco is 7'' already and I understand he will get much bigger. He was a rescue fish that lived in a cramped 25 gal tank with 4 adult sized goldfish, an albino cat, and another plecco his size. I am still astonished that those fish all survived given the condition of the water quality and them all being shoved in a quart ziplock bag when I recieved them. 

It's still a learning proccess for me. When I set up the 30 gal, I will make sure I do it right from the start.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

The pet store took one of my Ruby sharks back. We had both for probably three weeks now. It didn't seem to bother the other fish, but it beat the crap out of the other Ruby just recently. It was quite relentless actually. It was even trying to fight it when it was in the floater hosp tank. 

She thought it was odd that they didn't get along and said they were probably two males. I had to bite my tongue because when I researched them, I found out that Ruby's aren't tolerant of their own kind and shouldn't be in a community tank!

I've seen changes in some of the fish now that the bully is gone. The glowlights and x-rays aren't hiding in the corner all the time. The Ruby must have been stressing them.

Hopefully, she'll take the other shark back when it's not looking so beat up. If not, I am going to use it to cycle the other tank. I wanted to try a fishless cycle... but I gotta get rid of this other Ruby somehow. Cycling it seems more humane than flushing it. It will probably live but it will be in the aggressive tank and probably bigger by then.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Don't put a pleco in any natural body of water (an ornamental goldfish pond is ok), they are very invasive because they have no natural predators outside of their home waters. There are bodies of water with nothing but plecos now. I'd rather you freeze it or eat it. But you can usually give it someone with goldfish pond, they tend to die over the winter, so people want new ones in the spring.

Its sad to see people in the business with no knowledge, but it happens all the time. Running a business is so time-consuming, owners don't sit down and read the books they sell.

Most fish called "sharks" are one to a tank fish, IMO.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

You're right about the pleco. Honestly, I want to keep him... lol He is my favorite fish. I know some people with coy ponds if and when it comes down to that. I won't put him in a lake since he's been with tropicals. 

I won't eat him... I'm vegetarian! 

I'll house him until he gets too big then figure something out. 

I know I've been ignorant to a lot of things when starting up this tank, but I've learned a lot of things too. In all honesty, I'm surprised no one has called me a moron yet! Nonetheless, I will make sure not to make the same mistakes over and I guess that's what matters.

Thanks for your advice, it's much appreciated.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

So, I posted some new pictures of my fish. Mainly the gluttonous duo that I have! The trick was a pleco wafer. The dalmation molly and silver dollar seem to be growing much faster than the others. I love it when the silver dollar carries the wafer in his mouth. At first, it kind of shocked me that he had such strength. The poor pleco usually doesn't get much of it because they are on it like 'white on rice' as soon as I stick it in the tank. Some of them aren't shy and will eat it out of my hand.

I tested the water again today. My biological filter is working wonderfully. I will finally be able to get my 3 ghost cats tomorrow. After, I am going to start adding more of the same fish I have now that are schooling (slowly and patiently). I want them to be healthy so I won't be getting any other variety for this tank.

I am looking forward to building a new stand that will match the one I have for my 55. I still haven't been able to obtain a 30 gallon tank at a reasonable price. I can't believe that they are $200! I paid $125 for my 55 gal tank with hoods, lights, and the stand.

I want to kick myself for giving away the 25 gallon that I had. I gave them the tank for the crowded goldfish that are in a 10 gallon (it's still not big enough, but better than what they have)... They haven't even cleaned it up and I found out that they aren't going to put the goldfish in it because they want a tropical tank. It really makes me angry. If I would have known they weren't going to move the fish, I wouldn't have given them the tank in the first place. :-x


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I probably test my water more than what I need to. But after that nitrite problem I figure it's better to over do it than to under do it. Besides that, It's still a relatively new tank since its only been through one cycle...

The one thing that I did not test was the ammonia in a while. Last night I decided to test it with the API kit since I am getting new fish. The ammonia level was .25 ppm. After, I used a strip and it tested the same. I like to use both, just to check the accuracy of the strips. 

I got ammonia neutrualizing crystals, which I put in a bag and placed in my filter. I don't expect it to be an over night remedy. 

However, this got me to thinking why there would be any ammonia present at all. I'm not over feeding my fish, the bioload is okay, nothing has changed... and then it dawned on me: there is a missing frog in the tank somewhere that is dead. I fished the other one out a week or two ago, but have been unable to locate the other. I looked under all the big rocks to no avail, so it must be under my gravel somewhere. When I cut the fishes food back, I starved the frogs. I looked all over for the one. I was going to take it back if it was still living. I am certain now that it's dead, in the tank, rotting, and producing ammonia. 

I will never keep a frog again.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Frogs are cute but keeping frogs and fish happy in the same tank is too hard to bother with. Careful with ammonia destroying chems. You don't want to starve your ammonia-eating bacteria and have to 'cycle' the tank again. You aren't are a moron, you just started knowing nothing like everybody does. Stores would always rather make a sale today rather than let you go home and research and come back when you know what you are doing. Silver dollars are vegetarians, too. They will eat any live plant in your tank and anything green you feed the pleco. They also grow quick and get messy when they get big.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I didn't even think about it killing off the good bacteria. Now that you mention it, it seems counter productive since the ammonia level is very low. I don't want another nitrite spike. I took it out and I will monitor the levels daily to make sure they don't rise.

I think you just saved me a headache!

I definitely don't want another frog. IMO, they are a waste of tank space because they hide all the time. I wish I could find it so it wouldn't decay in my tank, but I've already looked for it numerous times.

I think Mercury will look really nice when he's bigger in comparison with the other schooling fish that remain small. He will be the focal point of the tank until he gets too big, then I will move him to a different tank. Fish are more addictive than tattoos. Guess it will save me some dead skin.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I finally introduced 3 cat glass fish to my tank. I plan on getting at least two more, but didn't want to get too many at one time. The three have been hiding all the time. I'm not sure if they will make it because they aren't eating.. Not even blood worms. 

I had a casuality today. One of my male guppies was floating at the top of the tank. Something ate his tail, fins, eyes, and half his face! The Ruby shark isn't big enough to eat it, at least I'm almost certain, so I have no clue which one did it. (The shark is MAYBE an inch and a half.) Cannabalism at its finest. Now I am worrying about all the other smaller fish I have in there, which is basically all of them.


----------



## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

It probably died on its own... but fish are very opportunistic. Even the most mild-mannered fish can be tempted to chomp on corpses.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

hXcChic22 said:


> It probably died on its own... but fish are very opportunistic. Even the most mild-mannered fish can be tempted to chomp on corpses.


You're most likely right. I just jumped the gun because he showed no signs of being sick, he was rather healthy. However, that doesn't really mean anything. 

The cat glasses are doing well. They still hide most of the time, but come out to eat now. I guess after a few days of not eating they decided it was best not to starve. 

The ammonia level has stayed at a constant .25ppm. I have ammonia crystals in a bag in with the filter again. I am reluctant to use any other ammonia remedies with it because I don't want to kill the nitrifiers. I thought about not feeding the fish for a day or two so they would produce less waste, but I think it would kill the glass fish because they haven't had much food. 


I am also watching to make sure I have no nitrite spikes after the ammonia subsides. I hope I don't have to deal with that nightmare again.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I finally got my other tank to keep aggressive fish. I wanted a 30 gallon, but my boyfriend got me a 38 that has the same dimensions as the 30 I wanted, minus the fact it is taller. 

He took measurements of the new tank and drew up the stand plans in Auto Cad to match the 55 gallon stand, and now we need to get the wood to build it. I'm glad he knows what he's doing because I have never built anything in my life. He's a senior designer in engineering so that helps a lot. It will be learning time for me. I want to post progress pictures and get input on aquascaping. I won't have the tank set up until after the Christmas tree is down. We will be building the stand soon.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sounds nice, by all means, post lots of pics. If you run the ammonia test on tap water, do you get a 0 reading? it is possible to have yellow water or stained test tubes mess up your reading.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I've tested the tap for everything else except ammonia. I will have to do that tonite. It's still at .25ppm...

Test tubes are rather new and clean. 

Thanks!


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

There is no ammonia present in the tap. 

I will do partial small water changes for the next few days and not feed them. Idk what else to do. I have had the ammonia crystals in with the filter for a week now and it has not done anything.. so, dilluting the water seems to be the only solution, while keeping an eye on the nitrites because of the ammonia treatment. 

I've been concerned with the glass cats. I don't think they are getting enough food. I am thinking about moving them to the hospital tank so they can continue eating when I take the food away, but I don't know if that will do more harm than good. There is no good bacteria in the tank and I cannot set the mini heater in it. It will run at 82 degrees constant if I keep the hood off, which is 2 degrees higher than what my tank is at...


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

It's been a while...

My mom was in the ICU for a week due to blood clots in her lungs. She's lucky to be alive. The doctor who operated on her didn't check for them when she complained of severe leg pains, which is where clots start. Needless to say, it was a very stressful time, but she made it through. She was on a morphine trip for most of that duration... The things people do and say on it is a riot. 

Although I've been distracted, I made sure to feed the fish properly and do water changes. I haven't had any major water quality problems, but have had deaths within the last few weeks. Two guppies died and my original molly. Mercury, the siliver dollar has a big circular white spot on his head. I did research, but I'm not sure what it is. It could possibly be a tumor/disease or it could be physical damage. I added Stress coat to the tank and I am going to treat it with Melafix first aid.

The bottle says to take the carbon out if possible, but doesn't say how long to leave it out. The treatment is supposed to be used for 7 days followed by a 25% water change. I figure it shouldn't hurt to treat the tank incase there is a disease present. If there isn't a disease, it should at least heal Mercury. I would hate to lose him because he is my favorite fish. Maybe I will just cut the carbon out of the filter altogether. It's probably not good anymore anyway. 

I got a loach in hopes of eliminating the snail problem. The next day he decided to jump out of the back of the tank. Needless to say, he's dead. At least he was a freebe. I bought another one that is skinny and elongated. We also covered the open spots on the back of the tank. The fish can beat themselves to death, but can't jump out. 

I am waiting on cycling the new tank. I was going to put the new filter pads in with the established tanks' filter to transfer the good bacteria, but I got to make sure there is no diesease present before I do that. I want the new tank to be fully established via a fishless cycle before I add the fish. 

The stand is built and I started to aquascape the new tank. I will post pictures soon. Instead of keeping cichlids, I want to keep two pairs of discus in the tank with a small algae eater. It will be a species tank. 

That's all for now...


----------



## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

You want to remove the carbon for the entire time you are treating the tank. In this case 7 days. After that you need to add the carbon back to the filter so that it will remove the medication from the water. 

Do not remove the filter material if it holds carbon in it. Instead make a very small incision in the filter and drain the carbon out. It is important that the biological and mechanical filters still work during treatment.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. The bottle wasn't specific. I will carefully cut the carbon out of the filter and get more carbon to add back to it after the treatment. With all the recent deaths, I think it is probably a bacterial infection. Three deaths of seemingly healthy fish that showed no signs of illness followed by Mercury having a big white 'sore' on his head seems too coincidental. I would hate to lose my whole tank.

I will set up a quarantine tank for the discus. I want to add a pair to the tank... wait for a month to make sure there are no problems, and then quarantine the other pair before adding them. From what I heard, they can be quite expensive.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Discus are cichlids, but they are very expensive and reputedly somewhat fragile. Then need high temp (84F), clean water and high-protein food. The wild-type should be hardier than the highly line-bred, but all hobby discus seem far easier to keep now than they were 20 years ago. They are reputed to be sensitive to water conditions and susceptible to disease, so QT is a must, many people keep them only with other discus to lower the disease risk. You can treat discus for disease with methods that will kill other fish such as very high temp and dropping the pH very low. But prevention is best.

I bet the white spot is a head wound from hitting the lid, but as it could easily get infected, treating the fish or the tank is a sensible course.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

The second tank will be exclusively for the Discus. It's going to be a while until I get the fish. I haven't seen any around this area and I need to get the other tank under control. 

Mercury has cotton-like fungus on his mouth developing, which wasn't there last night. I noticed it while feeding them today. I think he might have cotton wool disease. His behavior is slightly off, but he's doing okay otherwise. Melafix should remedy it... if it's not too late for him. 

I used Stress coat last night and followed with a melafix treatment today. Stress coat doesn't specify how often you can use it for repair purposes. Can I do a partial water change while using the medication? I should have done one before starting it, but didn't think of it until after using it. I usually do partial changes on Wednesdays, so if I don't do one, it will be longer than a week until the next one.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If he has columnaris aka cotton mouth, you will need something stronger than melafix. Melafix is like bactine, columnaris is like a staph infection, you need serious anti-biotics.


----------



## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

You are certain the white spot on the head is not hole-in-the-head disease?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

When you change water during treatment, you have to replace the med you take out. So if you do a 20% change, add 20% of the original dose


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks emc. The white spot on his head seems to be improving. His mouth is still somewhat white with a red sore now, but is healing. Melafix says it treats mouth fungus, which is another name my book called it... However, it's a generic term for the disease so it could mean an entirely different fungus altogether. I just don't understand why these problems are occuring when I have been maintaining my tank well. I need to get my 10 gal back so I can set up a quarantine tank and medicate fish before placing them into my main tank. I have too much invested to lose the whole thing now. 

I hope I'm wrong with my dignosis... I probably am if he's improving with just Melafix. 

I got The Manual of Fish Health for Xmas. Definitely a helpful book. Any suggestions on good fish books? It covers an array of things, but seems to only touch the basics. I am trying to get well educated. 

I don't think it's hole-in-head disease because there aren't a bunch of tiny holes in his head or body, rather just one that's about the size of his eye. 

There are a lot of educated, helpful people on this site, I'm glad I found it.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Real fungus looks like cotton also and grows on wounds in soft, acid water. I hope this is what he has, because it is much easier to treat. 

All of my general fish books are really old like this one http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Librarys-...r_1_47?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325711928&sr=1-47


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

The stand is secured with two-by fours on the inside to help support the weight. There is a ledge on the inside top of the stand which the tank sits into. As long as the tank isn't top heavy, there should be no weight issues with it. My boyfriend did a fantastic job putting it together. Unfortunately, all I was able to do on it was stain and finish it because my mom was in the ICU. 

I started with the aquascaping. I want to add a foam 'cave-like' background on the inside of it. I saw some in a reptile cage and they look fantastic. I can put fake plants into the foam and be really creative. I will have to carve the background a bit to fit it behind the filter properly and mount the heater to the side of the tank. 

Since We've decided on keeping discus, I am going to remove the clay pots and focus on planting the tank. I am going the fake plant route this time around. The plants in my 55 aren't holding up that great... 

It's a 39 gallon. It should be big enough to hold two pairs of discus, right?


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

The Melafix treatment has definitely helped to heal Mercury. The spot on his head is almost unnoticable and his mouth looks a lot better. I was finally starting to feel confident that my fish dilemma was solved. That is, until 2 days ago when I noticed salt like spots on Merc. I immediately started to treat the tank for Ich since it can spread rapidly. None of the other fish 'appear' to be inflicted with it at this point.

I did not put carbon back into the filter to clean up the Melafix because I didn't want to let the ich get any worse. Hopefully, this doesn't create problems. I have to wait another two days until I can do a pwc and put carbon back into the fitler to clean the meds out of the water. The poor fish are living in the blue light district!

So.. this got me to thinking that there has to be something wrong. There has to be something that I am over-looking for these issues to arise. I've done the water changes weekly, I've tested the water weekly, and the other fish seem to be thriving. There are no apparent water quality issues that could stress Mercury out. So what could it be?

I have a dalmation molly that likes to bully him. He doesn't bother any other fish, just Mercury. I see him frequently nipping at his sides and chasing him around. Sometimes, the molly is relentless. I have separated him a couple of times without resolve. I really dislike this fish, but I don't have the heart to kill it. After the ich is cleared, I am going to try to take him back to the pet store. Hopefully, I can trade him. If not, I will just drop the darned thing in her tank. I think the bully molly is the one causing Merc's health issues.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

stress and biting can cause wounds that get infected. Disease can crop up from stress, after exposure to new fish or even plants (they bring snails) or can be triggered by environmental changes. Ammonia that spikes and vanishes before you test it, a heater that is erratic and lets the temp drop, stuff like that. 

Stocking a 'community' tank is always a work in progress. It can seem like a grade school playground, someone is always getting bullied by everyone else or is bullying everyone else.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Isn't that the truth emc7! With my luck, the molly will live forever. Whenever I go up to the tank he mocks me, I swear! Okay, so I know this isn't really the truth, but it feels like it. He just wants fed all the time. He's grown abnormally big relative to all the other fish. 

He's not dumb either. He knows that whenever the net goes in the tank that I am after him. The one day it took me a half hour to catch the brat to put him in the floating tank. I think he irritates the ruby too. I find it humorous when the ruby goes after him. That's one fish that he shouldn't pick fights with.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I have some snails in my tank. I would estimate 20. Most of them hangout in the filter media. They haven't been a problem thus far. I don't see many in the tank itself, probably because there isn't much food that falls to the bottom during feeding time. Eventually, I am going to use the pop bottle method of trapping and removing them. The only concern that I have is whether they eat nitrifying bacteria or other good bacteria. They mostly live on my filter pad. 

I found out that my boyfriend was going to get a product to kill the snails. He is lucky that he didn't do this. I would have found out if the snails started to die, decay and reek havoc on the biological filter. I am the one that cares for the tank. I do not let anyone else feed the fish or mess with it. I know that I am probably overly anal about it. However, I am the only one who is taking the time to do the research. I wish I would have paid more attention in my college chemistry class, it would have proved useful. It was just hard to understand the teacher because he had a strong accent and would pronounce english words wrong. I don't understand why colleges hire people who are hard to understand. I have no biases against foreign people, but not being able to understand them is a major problem with education.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Stick a fork in a slice of cucumber and put it in the tank overnight. In the morning remove it covered with snails. Snails are animals and contribute to the 'bioload' like fish do because they eat and poop. If they eat your filter bacteria, they probably poop it back out. The tricky thing with snails is knowing how many you have. If you overfeed, you will have a lot more snails, but you may not see them for weeks or months. 

You are completely right to be wary of snail-killing chems. A lot of dead snails will foul the water with a huge ammonia spike like a large dead fish will. If you use one, be ready to gravel-wash repeatedly and do big water changes until the dead snails and their ammonia are gone.

I agree with you about hard to understand teachers. Its okay in a foreign language class where you are supposed to be leaning their language, but not in math or science. I had an Indian statistics teacher and I got my worst math grade ever from that course. 

Colleges do it because actually teaching undergraduate students is the thing they value least. Colleges value professors who do research, publish, and give talks around the world, but they don't expect them to actually teach. Teaching falls to graduate students or to visiting or even temporary faculty. I expect in the future, the best lectures will be available on line or on DVD and you will watch them yourself and only go to a TA for test and questions.


----------



## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Not all colleges are that way.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Statistics. Thinking about that makes my head hurt! Fortunately, I don't need to take it. I took logical thinking for my last math course. That was a huge mistake! I found nothing logical about it. I assumed it would be the easier route. Boy, was I wrong. Since I took a prior course with the same teacher, he gave me 50 bonus points for taking another one of his classes. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have passed it. 

I think colleges hire foregin teachers for many different reasons. The law may require it due to discrimination, or the schools might get tax breaks as an incentive. Idk. There is also a shortage of teachers. The job doesn't pay well unless the person is teaching at an ivy league school. A person really has to love teaching to take that many years of schooling for a mediocre pay. I learned that it was best to drop the class immediately if I couldn't understand the teacher. It just doesn't help my ADD. What are you going to school for?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm out, now. I ended up testing out of statistics at the next school I transferred to. 

The colleges that hire teachers for their ability to teach and experience in a subject, such as DeVry are largely regarded as "diploma mills" and are not as valued as an Ivy league or public research institutions. As you go higher in any subject, the number people who know it well gets smaller and schools do have to compete with the private sector. So you kind of expect foreign professors in Graduate level classes. 

But my sister's calculus teacher at Georgia Tech is from Hungary. The tenured professors don't like to teach low-level classes (and there are lots of sections of calculus), but Americans don't like the "non-tenure" track positions that pay poorly and come and go with budget swings.

There is an imbalance of foreign students in graduate programs. Since graduated students are big source of TAs, there tend to be many foreigners teaching. Americans are often content with a bachelors and get work to start paying down their student loans. It can be good thing that America is educating the world. Foreign graduate students often settle here and often start companies. Importing the brains drained from oppressed or just economically disadvantaged places around the world is a driver of innovation here. But that doesn't help you understand the professor. Incredibly smart, knowledgeably people are often horrible teachers. It this day of distance, online, and stored learning, there really isn't any reason not to have the best lecturers lecturing everybody everywhere.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

Yeah. You definitely have a point there. I didn't even think about it in those terms. People who are incredibly bright often are unable to' dumb things down', so to speak. They are better suited to teach people of like minds.

The educational system in America isn't impressive. It's not absolutely horrible, but other countries supersede in test scores. I think that has a lot to do with our culture. Other countries seem to value education more. Here, the school system will take calamity days for sports! 

Anyway, back to fish...

I finally got my terrarium background for my 38 gal tank. I was thrilled until I realized a minor oversight... I couldn't get the darn thing in the tank unless I cut the background in half or the bar that is in the middle of the tank. After a little thought, I decided to cut the bar because you won't see it when the hood is on. I will have to reinforce the bar before adding water. My boyfriend nervously carved out a space in the background for the filter to fit properly. He did a fantastic job; you can't even tell it's been modified. The only thing I don't like about it is how much space it takes up.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

No, don't cut the bar. Cut the background, put it in and stick it back together with silicone. when you reinforce the bar, something either sticks up so the lid doesn't sit right,or something sits right at the waterline and get algae growing on it. Don't reinforce the bar, and the top could spread and the tank could "split a seam" and dump all the water on your floor.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I love IE crashes, especially AFTER you are done writing everything. 

I split the bar before I posted the original msg. I split it in the front so it wouldn't interfere with the hood. I did account for that. It's reinforced with stainless steel, so I am assuming it will be strong enough to hold. I didn't think I could cut the background cleanly because of its thickness. Instead of cutting a $40 background in fear of damaging it, I cut a $100 brand-new aquarium. That's probably not something most people would do. Perhaps it was a vain decision. If it fails, it's going to be one hell of an expensive mess to clean up!


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

*Where did the water go?!*

I came home Friday, walked into my living room, and glanced at my new tank. I instantly went into panic mode. Approximately ¼ of the water was missing from the tank that was filled the prior day. All I could do was repeatedly say, “There’s something wrong,” until my boyfriend came in. I thought to myself: I shouldn’t have cut the center brace, although the aquarium was completely intact. I was in a state of hysterics, so my brain wasn’t processing the scene quickly or logically. I stood there dumbfounded…

The tank had been in the living room devoid of water for three weeks. I was waiting to find a background before filling it. I haven’t been in a big rush to set it up as I am still unsure of what I am going to keep in it. Discus won’t work in a 38 gal, to my disappointment. I wanted to keep two pairs, but it would be wrong to do so. I still want to keep it a species tank. The aquascape is set up for cichlids currently. 

Wednesday, I finally got my foam background. It needed modified so the filter would fit properly. My boyfriend spent hours carefully carving out a space for it. The background was sealed to the back of the tank with silicone afterwards. I fixed the aquascape and placed air stones in the tank where I wanted them. The following day, he reinforced the center brace of the aquarium with stainless steel and attached the lines to the air stones and pumps. We filled the tank. One of the pumps wasn’t working so he detached the line from the pump but not the air stone. Instead, he decided to place it above the tank on the filter media so it wouldn’t siphon water out of the tank. He told me he was going to do this, but I was idly paying attention.

When he came home from work Friday, he was complaining about how loud the filter was. I was at home all day, but didn’t notice it. I can easily tune things out. Even when he brought up how much louder it was than the other one, it still didn’t bother me. He decided to go over and mess with the filter to try to quiet it with no avail. Absentmindedly, I watched him remove the line that was on top of the filter media. We left the house for a few hours. The small line was no longer above the tank and was slowly siphoning water out. I would say there was a good 8-10 gallons of water that seeped from the line. The water leached through the floor and flooded the basement beneath it. That part of the basement happens to be under renovation. We are converting it into a workout room. He used the carpet scrubber to remove approximately 6 gallons of water from the carpet that was recently placed down there. I cleaned the water up that was in the living room. I wonder how much water damage is underneath the tank stand because we didn’t move it. We probably should have drained the aquarium completely to be able to move it and check. The fear that there could be irrefutable damage to the flooring underneath the stand will nag at me constantly, especially because of the aquarium weight.

The moral of the story is to unhook the line completely if the pump doesn't work. Don't leave it attached to an air stone in the aquarium when it isn't attached to a pump because mishaps can happen. It would have only taken a few seconds to reattach the line to the air stone. If I were paying more attention, I would have had him remove it, but I wasn't. My mind was on what to keep in the tank because water is in it now. I didn't want to put water in it until I decided on what species I was going to keep. I can't be indecisive for long; I have to pick the species soon in order to cycle the tank at the right ph and temperature. I will not make the same mistakes I did with the other tank.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

*sigh* Anything that can go wrong, will. Drain the tank, move the stand, make sue you get the floor dry, while its empty, silicone a piece a glass under the center brace. If 8 gallon made that much mess. you don't want to deal with a tankful of water out of the tank. Likely the floor is fine but the longer it is wet with weight on it,the more likely it is to compress under the stand.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

The tank was drained and moved. The floor is good.

Sunday, I made a huge mistake. The molly (aka Black Brat) wouldn't leave Mercury alone. When he persistently bullies, I put him in a floating isolation tank. The fish is (or shall I say was) very clever. He KNEW that if the floater tank or net was placed inside of the aquarium it was for him. I didn't want to spend a half hour trying to catch him, so I was trying to outwit the brat.

I got the tank ready, but didn't put it in the aquarium. I baited him with food, and then tried to ambush him with the net. The darn fish was too fast and I failed to outwit him (or so I thought). I sat the net on top of the tank and figured I would try again later. I didn't see him when I glanced in the aquarium. I assumed he was still hiding from the net. He wasn't bothering Mercury (which was my goal anyway) so I went to work. 

I came home and still didn't see him. This raised a redflag. He's rather robust for a molly and almost always swims toward the front of the tank. I always associated it with him mocking me. It's like his way of saying, "I'm here and I'm NOT going anywhere, despite the fact I annoy you!" (I want to make it clear that this perception was made up in my mind; I don't actually believe it.) 

Anyway... at this point, I am searching the whole aquarium for him, to no avail. My bf walks up and says, "umm, Jamie... the fish is in the net..."

Talk about a kick in the teeth! I felt absolutely awful.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ow, that sucks.


----------



## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Just FYI, you cannot punish a fish or "teach it a lesson." It behaves largely on instinct and will do whatever it is inclined to do whether you like it or not. The isolation won't do much more than stress the molly.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

It wasn't a form of punishment. I separated the fish in order to reduce the stress it was causing the other. I know he's just acting on instincts. It was a temporary solution to the problem. My permanent solution was finding it a new home, which I did 3 weeks ago. The move was delayed because of ich. He didn't show symptoms of ich, but I refused to give him up until I was certain it wasn't present in any fish. I was trying to be responsible in that sense... The person was willing to take the fish sooner, but it's an irresponsible risk to take. I wouldn't allow it. 

I am not trying to be irresponsible or careless. I was prescribed Adderall a month ago and it's been messing with my mind and visual perceptions. I'm debating on whether it's really worth it or not. Doctors should never prescribe it to children. It's a very nasty drug.


----------



## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Discordia said:


> I know he's just acting on instincts. It was a temporary solution to the problem. My permanent solution was finding it a new home.


I know exactly where you are coming from. My male swordtail was the bully in my tank. With four females he STILL picked on all the fish, trying to mate with everything, even the tetras. I currently put him in a spare 5g until i can find him a new home. Sometimes a fish just doesn't work in your tank. Whether its their personality, instincts or what ever the reason is. You have a responsibility to your other fish which are being harmed or stressed out.
So you do the best you can with the situation.

I am sorry for the way that your fish became not a problem. But we are all human and we DO make mistakes.


----------



## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Okay, gotcha. Good luck with both the fish and the prescriptions.


----------



## Discordia (Nov 16, 2011)

I am going to attempt to cycle my new aquarium with pure ammonia. It ought to be an interesting misadventure. 

Seargents bought a lot of API products and are discontinuing some of them. Watch expiration dates on any products that are purchased under AP(I) and Mars Care labels. Jungle products too... Seems like Seargents is going to be the monopoly. 

Is API going belly up?


----------

