# 3 weeks of chaos



## KimH (May 19, 2015)

Ok I have been to many fish forums and I have learned one thing...no one can agree on how to care for fish. My question is how long before ich spots will disappear from my fish? 

I have a new set up 30 gallon been up for about 3 months. I cycled it properly and stocked it. This whole thing began when I made the rookie mistake of overfeeding and not changing enough water out with my weekly changes and ended up with an astronomical nitrate level. The color in the tube was so dark I actually had to do 2 complete water changes to get the level to be light purple instead of bright purple and then another 50% change to bring instead to the safe zone blue color...yes it was that horrific. 

So then ended up with my 2 snakeskin barbs breaking out in ich. Ok so of course I have one fish in my tank that screws everything up for me...a Gold Ring Hillstream butterfly loach. She is also wild-caught which presents it's own challange as I'm trying to set the environment in the tank as closely as possible to her own natural environment..oh she's a beauty my prize baby I call her Precious. And have have a bristle nose pleco. I have been treating with methylin blue in half dose because of the pleco and loach being scaleless fish. 

Ok so I'm on the 4th half dose and the barbs look horrible but nothing on any of the other fish except one rummy nose tetra has one spot on her fin. I also cleaned out the tank removed half the gravel and cleaned the decorations well. I did this to mainly help control an infestation of tadpole snails that were stowaways in some aquatic plants I purchased.

I cannot do heat higher than 78 degrees because of the loach and I also cannot do much salting because of the loach as well. 

My stock includes 
6 glow fish tetra
5 Rummy Nose tetra
5 crystal catfish
2 pink kissing fish
1 red tail shark
2 snakeskin barbs
1 guppy..had two but black phantom guppy the only casualty thus far
1 bristle nose pleco
1 Hillstream Butterfly Loach
Nasty snails which I'm trying to eradicate 

I added a scant teaspoon of salt and change out 30% of the water e ery 48 hours between doses. I also removed the carbon filter during treatment. Am still seeing as massive amount of spots on the barbs though. All of this has taken place in the last 3 weeks.

Yes I have decreased feeding substatially and not worried about the amount of water changed as the fish seem to be very tolerant of the changes as I said I only lost a guppy during this whole thing. The fish know it's water change time they see my special jar and all swim to the bottom corner till I'm done. I am not replacing the gravel I removed as it seems to create more mess with more gravel eventually I would like to remove all the gravel and replace with river stones from our local rivers...again for Precious as she is a river fish...

I also have live plants in my tank as well and some cuttings from my golden pothos and some other philodendren species rooting in the water as asi want to do away with the carbon filter eventually and try to do a complete natural filtering system with plants...for the loach it makes her happy. Not sure what effect the plants will have on the treatment for ick.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

oh boy...where do i start....i can only give you my opinions gotten from my own experiences....
you have a few species that are not very compatible with some others..kissing gouramis can be quite mean and may well kill others..redtail sharks can as well..
tetras and barbs are schooling fish and should be kept in groups of 6 or more.
the hillstream loach really needs cool water (below 75) with good current and lots of aeration.....your other fish need warmer water...(above 75).
for a 30 gallon tank you may be a little overcrowded..after all ; the kissers grow to over 12" , and the redtail to 8"..
over feeding is easy to do..cannot count how many times i have done it..but be careful with that...
and now to water changes.....30% every week...if a little overcrowded twice a week...
as far as treating ich.....well....the only thing i use is Aquarisol.....it does not stain the water and can be used full strength on all species...and it is not so good for snails................BUT......unfortunately it is no longer made...awhile back i bought several pints of it...i wish i had the money at the time to buy all of it..the guy had about4 cases of it...i do have a bit that i sell in 2 oz bottles for $3.00 each plus shipping...

right now you are going to have to make a couple of decisions....you might want to set up another tank for your loach...a 10 gallon would work.an internal power filter would work nicely as it would provide current and aertation as it filters..set up some rocky spots for it to hang out behind and out of the current..


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## KimH (May 19, 2015)

I knew about the kissing fish... I plan to move them to a larger aquarium with the pleco I didn't know about the red tail so I will move him as well but aggression wise they actually get along well the kissing fish don't really pay any attention to the others. 

It was an accident with the kissing fish though I though they were the dwarf variety. But they all get along very well. Id say the biggest bully in the tank is the guppy...the kissing fish hide from him when he's in a pissy mood. I have seen the Kisser nibbling the loachs back but I've have seen her deliberately wiggle under thier mouths to get her fish massage as I call it and she only gets grouchy when they get too close to her eyes lol even the loach and the pleco get along often feeding side by side in the tank. Though occasionally the pleco wants her spot and will tickle her face with his tail till she moves over.

They all seem to really get along as a community. They all swim together very well I see the guppy and the barbs swim together often and also they love to swim with the tetras I would like to set up a 55 gallon for the majority of the fish and use the 30 gallon as a breeding tank for the loach and as I said I want to use stones from my local rivers....I live in Montana we have many great rivers here....and would actually love to convert the tank to actual river water from the river itself as why i need to find and breeder of these particular loach.

The barbs actually were an accidental shipment didn't order them with the fish I did order but got 2 of em even checked the packing slip no barbs so kinda was stuck with em. No one can agree on the loach this is what I have read in regards to loachs:

1. They are cold water fish 
2. They are mistaken as Coldwater 

3. They require heavy current
4. They do well with adaquate airstones

5. They cannot tolerate salt at all
6. They can tolerate minimal salt

7. They must have fresh algae available
8. They will eat regular food

So ya again no one can agree and most people haven't even heard of them before I show them a picture and they are oh I thought you were talking about a different kind of fish. It's frustrating actually not to be able to get one answer that is agreed on across the board regardless of what forum I read. So I kind of just have to wing it with her. I have yet to find anyone who has bred them and I have been desperately searching for someone. And not someone who threw em in Ina tank and they just happen to have babies but a breeder with years experience kind of person lol. 

I have found explicit breeding tank requirements...which contradict the whole temperature thing by saying turn heat up to 80 to encourage breeding. Even advice to set up a completely separate feeding tank for the loach over grown with algae...which she actually loves the spirula algae tablets so she is eating very well and having normal amounts of waste material of normal color and consistancy...yes I check my fishes poop...fecal material can be very telling if it changes even in the fish kingdom... but she is night feeder so during the day she isn't too active but at night she is all over that tank. 

They seem to get along uncommonly well actually for fish. I've had a 55 gallon with half that number of fish who were constantly fighting but these ones are buddies it seems. And as far as the snails I don't want them in the tank they breed too fast and are a pain as I said stowaways in plants I didn't buy the nasty things on purpose lol. I know some people just love them well not me. 

But all the fish act normally. The barbs were doing alot of rubbing on the glass yesterday but today they sre pecking food off the gravel and just kinda hanging out. The Kisser are doing thier kisser lip thing to each other. Just wanted to know how long those spots will take to go I know will take awhile because I have to do half dose just trying to get alot ballpark of when. I know about ich and the breeding cycle I know the spots have to burst and yhe eggs or whatever sit on the bottom and hatch and then little aquatic versions if the Alien monster burrow into my fish and starts the cycle over so just wanted to know just a ballpark time they will stop looking like lepers. I know the cooler water will take longer.

I keep my tank set at 76 degrees as in what Ive read in regards to the stock I have that seems to be the mid point for all the fish anyway the upper limit for the loach. I knew I wanted the loach and specifically picked out fish that had had a lower temperature range because I knew she needed a lower temp. I can drop my temp as low as 72 which is the lowest temperature safe for all the stock I have but no higher than 77. And the upper range on the other fish is 80 so i think I do have an ok stock balance for temperature. 

And I know know the cooler water will make the ich cycle longer thus taking longer for the whole tank to be cured just not sure how much longer it's going to take


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## KimH (May 19, 2015)

And why is it only affecting the barbs? I was expecting my bottom feeders especially the loach and pleco to be covered in it but I can't see spots any other fish in the tank aside from the one spot on the one rummy...is that even possible? Could it maybe not be ich and only look like it is?


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## Guest (May 20, 2015)

Hi KimH! I hope that you get your tank back in order. There are a few knowledgeable people on this forum who know fish. I have to say that you are way overstocked. I have to agree with lohachata, aquari-sol is no longer made and it can be used at full strength for many diseases. If you can set up a quarantine tank you can separate the barbs and treat them by themselves. Always have a quarantine tank, it will save you a lit of heartache in the future. If you can get aquari-sol, keep it on hand as it is great as a preventative for many diseases.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

if one fish shows signs of ich , all fish in the tank are exposed to it..those that are less stressed for whatever reason may not show signs of it.that is often why we only see just 1 or 2 fish showing it....ich is an issue where i would treat the entire tank..

it seems you have your act together in your fishkeeping , so there is nothing else i could add...best of luck to you..


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## KimH (May 19, 2015)

Ok that makes sense and I also learned there are 2 strains of ich one is slow infecting and the other is rapid, a resistant strain which is more deadly so I'm assuming I have just the regular strain and not super ich. I am treating the entire tank though. 

I wish I could move the barbs out to a Q tank so they could get the full strength dose and continue the half doses in the main tank but I only have a 1 gallon guppy tank that I could use and though the barbs are small they are not that small to be in a 1 gallon for a week or more. My only other idea I came up with would be a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a rigged air supply which I could use in an emergency but not the best option I would imagine lol...I do have extra pumps and a power head I am saving for my loach tank in the future I could set up in the bucket if needed I suppose

Forgot to add the barbs look better today. A bunch of the cysts must have ruptured overnight as they don't have nearly as many but still have quite a few left...I did find a bucket just in case though lol


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## KimH (May 19, 2015)

A note on fish aggression though...has anyone else ever put them in time out when they get pissy with tank mates? What I do is the same as you would an unruly child they take a nap lol. I do this the same way you deal with a grouchy bird I cover the aquarium. I go lights out and darken it by putting a towel draped down where the most natural light filters in and I think it confuses thier circadian rhythm and they calm down quite a bit. So maybe those who have cranky fish may need to put them down for a nap when the aggression is noticed. They seem to get along better during the light time when i give them thier afternoon siesta. I dunno..Just a thought


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

if i have a fish that gets too out of hand i remove it from the tank and drop a brick on it..


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

There are two good methods for treating groups of fishes when you have fishes which can't withstand standard ick medications.

Method 1--
Use a non-standard medication. Chloroquine hydrochoride is an old drug that used to be used to treat malaria. Nowadays it treats arthritis. If you can find anyone who takes "Plaquenel," try to borrow 1 pill per 10 gallons of tank size. It cures everything, and cures it fast and safely.

Method 2-- 
Use no medication at all. Instead, set up a series of containers. Move the fish from one container to the next each day. Dump out and clean each container after use; don't reuse the same one twice with used water in it.
Each day, the cysts will drop off of the fish. The idea here is to remove the fish before the dropped cysts burst open to release their swarmers. Keep this going for a couple of weeks, and the fish will be clean.


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## KimH (May 19, 2015)

Thank you for suggestions. I was mistaken in what the medicine was. I thought it was methylene blue but it is Benzaldehyde green. Now this I haven't read about anywhere. I've read about malachite green but not this kind.


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