# Gourami Dying?



## locojay (May 22, 2006)

I think my dwarf gourami is dying and I don't have any idea why. He's looked perfectly healthy until right now. I went in to feed the fish and he looked fine to me but I didn't give him a close look. I turned around to grab the food and when I turned back he was on laying on his side on the bottom of the tank. He's never done this before.

My Params:

Ammonia: 0
NitrAte: 20
NitrIte: 0
GH: 150
KH: 120
PH: 7.2

I've had this guy for at least 6 months and he's been perfectly fine. I feed once a day. Flakes, freeze dried bloodwoms, tropical micro pellets. I don't know what to do for him, I don't have a QT and everything is closed right now.

Please Help!


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

This morning I found him laying on his side again. I thought he had passed put when I got close to him with the net he moved to a new spot. When I left he was leaning against the wall in the back corner of the tank. I can take a long lunch and go take care of him but I don't know what to do for him.


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## robyn (May 29, 2006)

does he have an markings, etc indicating illness or disease?


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Nothing at all that I can see.


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## robyn (May 29, 2006)

i dont know what could be the matter. hope he gets better soon


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I thought my female was dying a couple of days ago. She was nose down, seemingly stuck in the plants and not moving much. She was like that for two days, then all of a sudden she started swimming around again like normal. Very weird.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Hmm, my cories have pulled that one on my before and still do once in a while, but this would be a first time for this guy. I hope so. I guess it sounds more likely than anything actually being wrong with him. I haven't changed anything in that tank in months and I doubt the tetras are abusing him when no ones looking.

I guess I have to wait it out.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Yup, I know, same with mine. Nothing new in the tank, no recent additions, subtractions, movements, etc. It was weird. But now she's back to normal, eating, swimming, playing with the male, etc. I thought she was a gonner because at one point, I saw the glofish boomeranging off her while she was face down. Silly fish. She nearly gave me a heart attack, females are so hard to find.


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

yeah, one of my tiger barbs did that once, he was moping around, on his side at the bottom. After about 3 days, he started swimming actively more than i had ever seen him, so i have no clue what the heck they do, maybe they get exhausted. lol not sure


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

bearing in mind that there is a dwarf gourami virus going thru the fish industry just now!
having said that I had a tetra take ill for about 2 weeks. then he recovered and is fine now.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2007)

Have you noticed any stringy white poo? DGs are prone to internal parasites, which can make them really lethargic (laying on the bottom alot...).


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

I've heard about that DG virus and I doubt that's what it is, at least I hope not.

I think it is internal parasites. I started treating for them thursday evening. I've been kicking myself in the rear for not paying more attention to this guy. I could of stopped this along time ago.

He was in my 20g about a month and a half ago and he started with that stringy poo. I thought it was from over eating and he was bullying the cories so I moved him to the 10g with the tetras. A couple weeks later I saw him darting around the tank when I went into the room but he only did it twice so I figured it was an isolated thing. I never saw him do it again so I dismissed it. The stringy poo went away too so I thought he was better. It wasn't until he was laying on his side that I really looked into helping him and now I'm finding out these were all symptoms of the internal parasites. Feel free to join me in beating myself up for not helping him sooner........

Anyhow, like I said, I started treating for the parasites. He hasn't gotten any better. Last night his breathing got fast and shallow and is still the same this morning (I'm guessing this is bad). I'm not being too optimistic since I figure it's probably pretty advanced.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

How are you treating for parasites? He must injest food that has been soaked in parasite medication, preferably something that contains metronidazole and praziquantel. Treating the water does nothing. I use Gel-Tel Ultra Cure PX. As long as he's still eating, its not too late.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Unfortunately it's gone far enough that he's not eating anymore. So I am treating the tank with tablets. I'm not getting my hopes too much as for the DG. 

My big question now is: Since I'm pretty sure it started in the 20g and I've spread it to the 10g, what should I do for all the rest of the fish to make sure they're OK. Everyone else is eating and seems to be healthy but that's what I thought with the DG. I'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Everyone in his tank needs to be treated with the medicated food. IPs are highly contageous.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

How long after these water treatments do I have to wait before I can treat with the medicated food?

Will it hurt anything to treat the 20g just incase?

Any specific product/method recommendations?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

No, it won't hurt anything. As I said, treating the water doesn't do anything. You can do a water change but won't really matter. Begin treating with the medicated food immediately and treat for a minimum of 7 days, no matter what the package says. We deal with IPs a lot with puffers unfortunately, and have found that a minimum of 7 days is needed to irradicate them. I recommend and use Gel-Tek Ultra Cure PX. Others have had success with PraziPro. Just make sure it contains both medications I mentioned above.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

fast them for a cpl-few days, get them good and hungry, then go with the medicated gel food. It may only work once so make sure they all get some to eat. I had IPs in my 55g, wiped out all my rams and a cpl DGs. They ate the food after the fast, but wouldn't touch it again, even after another fast. So make the first feeding count!  The other survived, but what a PITA.

Hope all goes well!:console:


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

If they aren't eating the food, soak the food in a little water with sliced fresh garlic in it. Works almost every time. This also works best on non-flake food, which is harder to medicate. Frozen or freeze dried works best.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

if the water treatments are not effectiveI wonder why the product is sold then?
Surely it must kill off any free swimming parasites?
We have only just started getting any of the gel foods around here. Good thing the fish seem to like them.
I also had wormy gouramis in 2 tanks. fortunately the platys and guppies eat anything and I have started to worm them every couple of months just in case.
The black skirts in my other tank would rather starve than eat medicated food of any kind.
i too lost my gouramis even after trying to treat them. It is strange how when you buy them they seem healthy and are eating ok, then seem to develop these worms. I wonder why it takes so long for the symptoms to start showing up. Any ideas anyone?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

There's a lot of stuff sold that doesn't work. I don't know if it kills free swimming parasites, but I know it does nothing for the parasites already infesting the fish. 

They don't "develop" the worms. But it can take several months for the effects to start showing up, especially if you aren't looking for them. Which is why I find quarantining all new acquisitions vital and I use a bare bottom tank. I rarely see any of my fish pooping but with a bare bottom tank, the poop is obvious and easy to see what it looks like.

There's no need to deworm them every couple of months unless something new has been added to the tank that hasn't been QT'd.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

most new introduction of parasites come from frozen food. My parasites cames from a batch of big als frozen brine. I also had problems with Sally (San Fran Bay). I only used Hikari Bio Pure and have never lost a fish from IPs since. It is run through UV 3 times killing anything that could be introduced into the tank. Just beware to check the package of your frozen foods to be it's UVd before you buy it! That's the best advice I can give. Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Zig


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Evidence please.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Evidence please.


dead fish........... also, a lot of fish stores arond my city won't stock Sally's or BA frozen food for that very reason. For the few cents more, go with a food that has precisely addressed this potential problem.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

So basically you have no proof. Intestinal parasites actually come primarily from fish caught in the wild according to the research I've done. Most fish at LFSes tend to be wild caught. If one is infested and is put into a tank with 10 other fish, guess what happens. Intestinal parasites as far as I know do not survive the freezing process.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

The DG has passed.

I picked up some medicated pellets yesterday but the only ones that really ate them were the cories in the 20g. 

I didn't think about either fasting or soaking. But both sound like good ideas. So I'm going to go ahead and do that.

Hopefully this works out, I don't want to lose any more fish. I was supposed to be moving the harlies back to the 55g in a couple days since the cycle looks like it's pretty much complete but I don't want to spread this stuff to another tank.

How long do I have to wait before I know these guys are gone? Like I said the harlies were supposed to go into the 55g and everyone else was supposed to go into the 40g that I'm going to be starting up in about 2 weeks. I'm still proceeding with the 40g but I think all of these guys will stay together for a while until I know this is done.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Treating for 7 days with both of those medications should do it.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

He's tricked me again. I went to net him and he moved out of the way. He's barely moving now though. He's obviously getting worse. I think the poor guys just suffering now.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Might be time to take steps to end his suffering.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> So basically you have no proof. Intestinal parasites actually come primarily from fish caught in the wild according to the research I've done. Most fish at LFSes tend to be wild caught. If one is infested and is put into a tank with 10 other fish, guess what happens. Intestinal parasites as far as I know do not survive the freezing process.


If that was the case Mrs. know it all, then why would Hikari driectly put on their labels 3x UVd to protect against parasites. Again, putting bad advice on a board that you have no business posting on!!!!!!! If they can't survive the freezing process then why bother doing it. Plus fish store owner flush down the toilet more then you will ever learn. So combined with my experience, Fish store owners and Hikari themselves, I would guess your proven an idiot once again. And when a tank has been up for 5 yrs with no deaths, no new intros and you feed food not UVd and you get deaths, one has to look at the food as a source. and to even further the point, microscopic organisms have been found in the north and south poles in ice that have been there for years and still alive. They take core samples from the ice. I guess they are wrong too huh? enough said!


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## cenedra (Feb 12, 2006)

hummmm thats really interisting that you say water treatments will not work for IP
i have had great success treating with metro, levasole and several others for IP
there have been several studies done by major colleges on this and they also have had great results

levesole saved my entire fish room about 8 months ago from a attack of camellanus worms

here are 2 links to a few web pages about it

www.inkmkr.com/Fish/CamellanusTreatment.pdf 

http://www.middlebury.edu/administration/stss/animal_facility/veterinary/fish.htm


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Perhaps it depends on the type of worm, but in the experience of most puffer keepers that I know who have had to deal with IPs (all too often unfortunately as they're mostly wild caught), treating the water doesn't affect the IPs enough to irradicate them inside the fish. They don't get enough of the medication into their bodies just by breathing it in through their gills.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

I'm not taking anymore chances with this stuff. I'm treating the water and feeding the food.


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## mayastarocker (Dec 29, 2006)

I had a male dwarf gourami and he got sick and he was not really swimming and I treated the tank with quICK treatment from Walmart, but it didn't work. He was hardly even swimming, so I put him down and then I got some Maracide from my friend and that's helped. Now I'm not losing so many like I used to.


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## Betta1 (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't know if this makes any difference but the day after I fed my White skirts frozen brine shrimp they got Ich, I don't know if thats what your talking about or even if that had anything to do with my fish getting sick but it's my .02


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## Steph312 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Need help*

I just noticed my honey gourami has been getting really fat. He hasnt been eating and not swimming like he used to. Any idea what it could be?


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

Steph, I would start a new thread if you haven't already. This one is from over a year ago.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

was another thread started? sounds like dropsy undoubtedly Steph.


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