# Planting my 75 G



## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Hey guys
I am preparing for the purchase of a 75 G aquarium (give or take a few gallons on what I can find) I have a topic in the general section about stocking it: http://www.fishforums.com/forum/general-freshwater/19329-stocking-my-75-g.html 
I need some advice on planting because I am pretty unfamiliar with the topic. I've done a small amount of research and I just read Justonemore20's article on it. I am going for a pretty heavily planted tank but not really sure what type of plants to get. Once I figure this out I would probably need help on lighting and substrate...I need enough plants & hiding places for the fish I would like. I am probably going to get some apistos and rams along with some other fish that require hiding. So what are some planting ideas? I don't think I could handle high lighting :-( most likely too much work and too expensive but I think I could handle meduim lighting.

So I'm just looking for some help...
Thank you so much guys!


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

Hornwort,Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubais, Cryptocorynes, Lillies (Nymphaea), Valisneria, Saggiteria, Swords (Echinodorus species), Water Sprite, Banana Plant and Hornwort. All of these are low light plants I don't think they should be too hard to take care of but don't forget to make/buy a co2 system. There is a DIY somewhere on this site for it


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2008)

DIY CO2 isn't effective on larger tanks.  

You can have a pretty heavily planted tank without CO2 injection though.

If you want high light with alot of plant choices and you can dedicate enough time and money into the tank, try your hand at high tech, with pressurized co2.

The more light you have, the more the need for co2 goes up until there isn't enough in the tank without injecting it for the plants.

As far as lighting choices go, you have some options:

A 48" 130w power compact fixture would give you about 1.7 watts per gallon. It would not stretch the entire width of the tank, so you'd have some darker areas. Putting low light plants in those areas would work though. With this light, you'd have a pretty varied selection. Alot of stem plants are medium light and you'd have the choices of Java fern, Anubias, Crypts, and Java moss as well, which are common low light plants.

Another option is a 48" T5 HO (high output) fixture that has 4 54w bulbs in it. This would be a good amount of light. Ideally, you'd want co2 injection, but with enough plant mass in the tank and with alot of stem plants (Rotalas, Bacopa, Ludwigia to name a few) you shouldn't have a huge algae outbreak, since the plants would outcompete the algae for nutrients and light.

Another option is to go with 2 40w double fluorescent fixtures, for a total of 160 watts. This would give you about 2 watts per gallon and put you right in the middle of medium light. You wouldn't need to inject CO2 and you'd have a fair amount of plant choices (alot of stem plants, and the low light plants, as well as some grassy plants).

Here is a site that has pretty good info on plant and lighting needs: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=1. 

I actually like the plant finder here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/ better. Just look where it says lighting requirements and choose a category (high, medium, low) to see pics and names of those plants. It doesn't have everything though, but maybe between the 2 of them you'll get an idea of what you like.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks a lot guys. Plants are WAY more complicated than I thought they'd be. But that's ok I like the challenge  
One question though. You do put the plants in WHILE (so b4) you cycle right?

Also on the lighting options I think I'm going to go with the 2 40w double fluorescent fixtures. So any tips you could give me?

Thank you so much!


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

You are supposed to put them in after... I think. I think that the nitrates + nitrites + ammonia could kill your plants.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Oh...I thought plants soaked in nitrates? :?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Most plants take up nitrate and some (hornwort) even take up ammonia. I don't know how plants affect the cycle or vice-versa. I suspect you will adding plants for a long time to fill up a tank that big. I'd guess its ok to put some in, but you may not see your nitrate go up and will have to judge the cycle complete by the nitrite going to 0.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2008)

If you are going to do a fishless cycle, wait to put the plants in. The ammonia gets pretty high and you could invite algae into the tank that way. Alot of plants take in ammonia and nitrates. 

If you are doing a fishy cycle, put in a bunch of plants in the beginning....especially the fast growing stem plants. This will help keep the ammonia level low while the tank cycles, which won't hurt your fish, as much.

With enough plants in the tank and gradually stocking the tank over time, you may not see a measurable cycle.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Well that would be nice!
Hmm...I've been exploring articles and I'm gradually finding out more information. I doubt I will do a fish less cycle if it's unnecessary!  
Ok so I will post more when I know more!

Thanks again!


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

These might be some choices for me to start with maybe? 
Any advice on them and ideas for other plants?
Front:
Pearlweed
Hemianthus micranthemoides

Cryptocoryne undulata
Cryptocoryne undulata

Dwarf Hairgrass
(Eleocharis acicularis)

Middle :
Black Sword plant
Echinodorus parviflorus

Rotala rotundifolia
Rotala rotundifolia

Back:
Corkscrew val
Vallisneria americana v. 'Biwaensis'

Willow leaf hygro
Hygrophila salicifolia

Wisteria
Hygrophila difformis


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2008)

Dwarf Hairgrass and the HM are going to need the most light. With the hairgrass, you are going to want CO2, or it won't grow well.

If you don't want to get into CO2 injection, replace the hairgrass with something like Echinodorus tennellus or Dwarf Sagittaria....they are grassy plants, but need less light, and don't require co2. They aren't as thin as the hairgrass, but still look grassy.

HM might be ok without CO2. You are going to want atleast 2.5 watts per gallon though, which would be around 190 or so watts over the tank (obviously you can't have exactly 190).

With the others, you'll want around the same light. Some of them can take as low as about 2 watts per gallon, but I wouldn't go any lower than that. They will also be fine without CO2.

Some other stem plants like Bacopa caroliniana, Bacopa monneri, Pennywort, Anacharis, Ludwigia repens, and Hornwort would be good to have in the beginning for cycling, even if you don't keep them all.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

I see, yeah I'll skip the hairgrass just to avoid all that if my other plants would be fine.

I will definiently look into the plants you listed though. Just a question...How many of the plants I list (another list will follow in a few minutes) should I buy? I really don't have much of a clue how big these plants are! 

Thanks so much!


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2008)

It really depends on where you get them. Most stores (online included) sell the stem plants in bunches. Usually, you get around 6-8 stems per bunch. 

Keep in mind that they will eventually grow taller and you can trim and replant the stem plants to have a larger group.

With your list now, I'd probably buy 2 bunches of the Wisteria, Willow Leaf Hygro, and Rotala. The size of Sword plants can vary....usually they are a pretty good size though (maybe 4-5" leaves). These can be your focal points in the tank.....so you may want to get 2-3. For the Vallisneria, they may be sold by the plant. You'll probably want around 10 or so to start with.....maybe a few more depending on how you want to lay it out. If you want the Pearlweed to spread all across the foreground, you should get atleast 3 pots of it IMO to start with (it is sold in pots usually). 

Crypts range from being pretty small (maybe 2-3" leaves) to pretty large (maybe 6-7" leaves), so it depends on how much space you want to cover with them. I believe Crypt undulata gets pretty big, so you might want to rethink that for the foreground. For a nice little bunch of them, I suggest about 4-5 plants, unless you want a bigger group.

If you plan on buying online, some good sites to order from are: http://www.aquariumplants.com, http://www.aquabotanic.com, http://www.aquariumgarden.com, and you may be able to find some from sellers on http://www.aquabid.com if you can't find them at the other places.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Oh yeah and what are some good substrates?
Also would you guys mind giving me a few links to good online stores that sell good planted tank supplies (lights, substrates, etc.)?

Thanks!

Sorry! I didn't see justonemore's post when I posted this!


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Oh I have another question 
Aquarium plants offers aquascaping (http://www.aquariumplants.com/category_s/127.htm) It lays out my tank and they send all of my plants to me I think. Would this be helpful?

And also do plant assortments provide you with enough plants or should I just buy them all seperate?

One more thing...Do you know how I should light my tank? Will I need to order the hood and all and bulbs seperate or what?


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok I got a longer list:
Front:
Pearlweed
(Hemianthus micranthemoides)

Echinodorus tennellus 

Dwarf Sagittaria

Cryptocoryne undulata

Middle :
Black Sword plant
(Echinodorus parviflorus)


Anacharis

Ludwigia repens

Hornwort 
(Ceratophyllum demursum)

Creeping rush
(Juncus repens)

Rotala rotundifolia

Back:
Corkscrew val
(Vallisneria americana v. 'Biwaensis')

Giant Bacopa
(Bacopa caroliniana)


Aponogeton crispus

Willow leaf hygro
(Hygrophila salicifolia)

Wisteria
(Hygrophila difformis)

I like all of these but I'm not set on any. Does anyone know some good combinations of these to go together? Also how many total plants would I need to plant my tank? And finally I can get other decorations right? Like driftwood (I know I can get this) and rocks and such.

Thanks again


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2008)

dogsare4losers said:


> Oh yeah and what are some good substrates?
> Also would you guys mind giving me a few links to good online stores that sell good planted tank supplies (lights, substrates, etc.)?
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


Substrate is another cost issue, especially with larger tanks. 

You have your plant specific substrates like: Eco Complete, Flourite, and Onyx sand.

Then you have substrates that people use in planted tanks for various reasons. Soilmaster Select and Turface are both used on baseball fields to dry up water. They really soak up nutrients when used in planted tanks, but don't actually have any nutrients in them to begin with. They are small grained, but won't compact on plant roots like sand can....and they are cheap. Its about $15 or so for a 50lb bag of each. I don't think they are making Soilmaster Select anymore (or it could just be the charcoal color they aren't making), but it was/is sold at Lesco. For the Turface, you could probably find a link on that page to places that carry it.

Another substrate is Schultz Aquatic Plant soil, which I believe can be found at local hardware and pond stores. It's made for pond plants, but works in aquariums as well.

You could always use regular gravel. Whether you use regular gravel or the plant substrates, you will need to dose some nutrients in the water for the plants to thrive.




> Oh I have another question
> Aquarium plants offers aquascaping (http://www.aquariumplants.com/category_s/127.htm) It lays out my tank and they send all of my plants to me I think. Would this be helpful?
> 
> And also do plant assortments provide you with enough plants or should I just buy them all seperate?
> ...


Buying plant assortments like they sell could be a good idea. I prefer to choose my own plants. As long as you let them know your lighting and tank size, it should be ok. I'd be afraid they'd send you something that was a difficult to grow plant or that really requires co2. I don't really know how many of each they'd send, so not sure if you'd get enough.

I answered your lighting thread. 



> Ok I got a longer list:
> Front:
> Pearlweed (Hemianthus micranthemoides), Echinodorus tennellus, Dwarf Sagittaria, Cryptocoryne undulata
> 
> ...


Combinations really depends on what you like and what you want you tank to look like. Try to visualize the plants in the tank by the pictures you've seen of them and figure out what will look the best. All of those plants will work in the lighting you are wanting. I do suggest that if you get the Cryptocorynes, that you put them in the middle or back area instead of the front. They get pretty tall.

You will have alot of room in the tank from front to back if you get a 75g, so having a list that long is ok. I suggest getting a couple bunches each of the stem plants (Ludwigia, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, Hornwort) and maybe 2 Sword plants and 3-5 Crypts. For the Apon, you probably will want just 1 or 2 of them. For the Vals, getting about 8-10 plants should be fine, unless you are wanting to cover a large area with them.

E. tenellus and Dwarf Sag. look pretty much the same, so you might as well pick one and just get alot of that. I prefer E. tenellus, as the color is lighter and it tends to have shorter leaves than the Sag.

Plants really look their best IMO when you plant them in groups together.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks JOM! 

Man substrates can get expensive....if I used the stuff that takes up nutrients would it work to put ferts in b4 adding plants so they can suck up the nutrients?

Ok taking your advice, jom, would this list look good?
2-3 bunches of ludwiga, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, and Hornwort
2 sword plants
4 crypts
2 apons
9 vals
I actually prefered E. tenellus too. So I think I will get that, how much would I get if I want it to cover a large area in the front of my tank?

So is this all the plants I would need or do I need more? Oh yeah and just so you know I got the creeping rush idea from your tank.


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah, they definitely get expensive on larger tanks.

It would work to put some in before, but it would work just as well to put the ferts in after you get plants. Either way works. Most people just wait until they get the plants.

Ohh, I left off another substrate. AquariumPlants.com has their own substrate now. Most people say its just like the Soilmaster Select that I mentioned in my other post. They claim it has nutrients in it though and people that have used it say its a good substrate. That might be another one to consider. It would have nutrients already in it. If shipping isn't alot, it might be worth buying.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

I like it! But it says that it comes in a 5 gal bucket perfect for a 55 gal tank. (3" of substrate I think) So would 1 bucket cover me? I must say it is pretty cheap and a free bucket! And free shipping!
Oh and also (yes I have soooo many questions) should I buy my ferts (http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_own_SUBSTRATE_VITALIZATION_p/fert.htm ) from them? And if so what types and I don't quite understand some of the dosing on them? help please...lol


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2008)

Hmm....you're right. I forgot they say 1 bucket is for 55g. It probably wouldn't be enough for a 75g.

I personally would buy some dry ferts. I buy mine from here: http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ferts.html. I suggest getting KN03 (for nitrates), K2SO4 (for potassium), and then using either CSM+B for micro nutrients or buying Aquarium Plants trace mix or getting some regular Flourish.

He takes paypal payment. You will have to email him your order.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

I was reading some of the reviews for the substrate and one person said it gave him 3" of substrate in his 65 G...so would I be ok with most likely 2-2.5" of substrate or do I need more?

Oh and for the ferts, he says that the KN03 is for potassium and nitrates...So do I need to use the extra potassium? 

And would I be better of buying ferts online or would I probably be able to find them at my LFS?


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2008)

2-2.5" is fine. And actually you don't need more than about 1.5" in the front. You can slope it towards the back and you should have atleast 2-2.5" there, if not 3.

I'd go for it. If they offer free shipping now, thats a heck of a deal. 


You will need the extra potassium because you won't be dosing much nitrates, especially once the tank is fully stocked. And if you don't dose alot of nitrates, then you won't be getting enough potassium. With the K2SO4, you will only be using it for potassium, so you'll be able to dose enough.

I doubt you'll find dry ferts at your LFS. If you can, then that is a fabulous LFS.  You may find the Seachem Flourish line there though, which are liquids. For a 75g those would be really expensive with the amounts you'd have to use. You'd go through the bottles really quick. The dry ferts, if you buy about a pound of each, should last atleast 6 months......and probably more than that. I use my dry ferts on 3 tanks and they probably last 6 months a pound, so I know yours will last longer. Plus, the dry ferts are pretty cheap.

I suggest you get a set of measuring spoons that have 1/4 teaspoon, 1/2 teaspoon, and 3/4 teaspoon atleast. I have a set that I bought at Walmart for like $4-5 that goes from 1/8tsp to a tablespoon.

A good dosing regimen would be dosing your macros (potassium, nitrate) about twice a week and dosing micros (Flourish or CSM+B) twice a week on different days (micros one day, macros another).

People that inject carbon dioxide, usually dose every day, but you probably shouldn't do that. You don't want to add too many nutrients without CO2, since that could lead to algae issues.

I suggest dosing about 1/4-1/2tsp of KNO3 and about 1/2tsp of K2SO4 on the macro days. You can check your nitrates shortly after dosing that amount and see what they get to. Before you get fish, or when you have just a few fish, you'll probably need to dose more nitrates, but later on the fish should produce enough waste to raise the nitrates.

Hope that helps...I know you didn't ask for a dosing plan, but I thought I'd mention that anyways.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Thank you!
I will probably adibe by that.
Quick question...what are the "testers" I will need for this tank. Right now I only check nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, and pH on my other tank. So what else do I need to test?


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

You could get a phosphate test. It comes in handy sometimes. Another you might want is general hardness and carbonate hardness (GH/KH)....they come in a kit together. I think thats about it really. And you won't use those all the time, but it is helpful to have those when trying to diagnose problems.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok thanks,
What about potassium? Would I need to test it? Oh and I have lots of teaspoon/tablespoons lying around the house, don't worry. ;-) 
Oh and below is the list of plants I made...Sorry to be so annoying but would it work? 


> 2-3 bunches of ludwiga, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, and Hornwort
> 2 sword plants
> 4 crypts
> 2 apons
> ...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

dogsare4losers said:


> Ok thanks,
> What about potassium? Would I need to test it? Oh and I have lots of teaspoon/tablespoons lying around the house, don't worry. ;-)
> Oh and below is the list of plants I made...Sorry to be so annoying but would it work?


You won't need a potassium test. You can't really overdose it. There is a tool for calculating how much of each nutrient you are getting into the tank, here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php. You put in your tank size and what you are using (potassium sulfate) and then the amount and it tells you how much in ppm you are adding (and the amount you are trying for). You'll see when you put in the KNO3 as well, that you don't get in the target range for potassium with it alone. The fertilator comes in really handy.  And like I said, you can't OD on potassium.....or atleast you won't have any problems if you do.



> 2-3 bunches of ludwiga, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, and Hornwort
> 2 sword plants
> 4 crypts
> 2 apons
> ...


That list sounds good. If you want to plant it pretty heavily from the get-go, get the 3 bunches of the stem plants.

You may want to choose another type of mid-ground plant like maybe add in 3-4 more of another type of Crypt.

For the E. tenellus, I suggest getting atleast 2 pots of it, if not 3, since you have alot of space to work with in a 75g.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok I think I have a list now...
3 bunches of ludwiga, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, and Hornwort
2 amazon sword plants
4 crypt undulates 
2 apons
9 corkscrew vals
4 crypt walkari
Java Moss
3 pots E. tenellus 

I know this is *really* sad...but I heard you plant a lot of plants differently...Like 4 the moss I need to attach it to something, like driftwood. And you do other plants other ways. What are some good ways to plant some of my plants? Oh and when you (jom) were talking about dosing do you do mixing w/ water or just dry dose? If I do just dry do I just drop it in or do I have to put it into the substrate?


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

dogsare4losers said:


> Ok I think I have a list now...
> 3 bunches of ludwiga, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, and Hornwort
> 2 amazon sword plants
> 4 crypt undulates
> ...


Sounds great! You should definitely have enough plants to start out with. 



dogsare4losers said:


> I know this is *really* sad...but I heard you plant a lot of plants differently...Like 4 the moss I need to attach it to something, like driftwood. And you do other plants other ways. What are some good ways to plant some of my plants? Oh and when you (jom) were talking about dosing do you do mixing w/ water or just dry dose? If I do just dry do I just drop it in or do I have to put it into the substrate?


Its not sad at all.....you have to learn somewhere right? And you won't learn unless you ask questions! 

Before talking about planting, I suggest you invest in some of these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3746+12038&pcatid=12038. I have the 10" curved ones and I must say, they are the best things I could have bought for my planted tanks.  

With the stem plants (aka bunch plants) you'll want to plant a couple stems together and then make a group. They will probably come with a lead weight around each bunch. Take that off and trash it, then get 2-3 stems with your big tweezers and plant them. Repeat that step until you have a nice group going. I usually plant mine pretty close together, but its up to you.

With the swords and Crypts, I usually trim off dead/dying leaves and some of the roots if there is a ton....it makes for easier planting and they will grow back. They may not have large root systems though. Just take the end of the plant and shove it in the substrate with your tweezers. I usually plant my Crypts pretty close toegether. Don't plant them as close as the stems, since they will grow wider. You can plant the Vals the same way, but they won't grow wider, so you can plant them close together or however you want. 

The Apons may come with just a bulb or they may have some growth on them....either way, just shove the bulb in the substrate.

For the moss, you are right. Tie it to some driftwood or rocks. I use fishing line, some people use thread......just depends on what you have available. Thread tends to break down eventually......and I've found it floating in the tank before. I just use the fishing line because its clear and doesn't come loose.

For the E. tenellus, separate it into small plants and plant each. You should have enough to plant them close together and start your foreground.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok thanks that will help!
Well don't think I have anymore questions for now! Well other than do I just dose dry on the ferts?

But I think I will be getting my aquarium in a few weeks! I'm SO happy I did/am doing all this research first! So I guess I will post when I have another question or when I know what/when I'm going to get what I get!!


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

Sorry! I meant to answer that question in my post above, but I got sidetracked on the planting....lol.

You can just put the dry ferts right in the tank (that's what I do) or you can mix with some tank water if you want. Either way works. Some people even mix them up in 250 or 500ml bottles, by figuring out how much to put in and then how much to dose, but sometimes it doesn't mix well and settles and you don't know how much your adding. I prefer to dose directly into the tank.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Haha its fine 
Thanks for all your help so far jom! So like I said b4 I will be getting everything in a few weeks! I can't wait to set it up!

Oh a quick question though...for lighting my tank I'm just wondering...If I go above 10,000K in my lights would it be bad or just unnecessary? Also what would happen if you lit a freshwater tank with actinic bulbs? Like say I got this: http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Power-Compac...ryZ46314QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Would it work in my aquarium? (I would either run one pair of the bulbs for only 4-5 hours a day or just not use a bulb)


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Oh and Jom I didn't get the deal :-( 
I got beat out by a last second bid...I hate those people :-x 
Oh well I'll just have to find another...:-(

Another question though. What if I was to get into co2. How should I go about doing this since I can't get a DIY because of the size of my tank. So how would I inject co2, or should I just not worry about it?


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

CO2 would open up more plant options. It will make plants grow faster, so you'll have to do more trimming. I love having co2 injected tanks myself, because the plants just seem healthier and I can grow about anything I want.

You'd need a co2 tank (10lb would be a good size for a 55-75g tank), a regulator, tubing, check valve (brass), and a diffuser like a glass diffuser or a powerhead or an inline reactor. You can buy co2 tanks at welding places (also refill here) or gas places in your area. Alot of places trade in tanks, so if they sell them, you should buy locally. You could buy a new tank from AquariumPlants.com (I bought mine here), but if you can't find any places to fill up without trading tanks in, then you might as well buy a used one locally.

The parts you can get from different places. I ordered all my parts from http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com. His regulators are a bit more expensive than others you can find, but they are better quality. You can sometimes find regulators on ebay (search for Milwaukee co2 regulator).

I run co2 on 3 of my tanks with 1 co2 tank (20lb).  Definitely worth it, although it is expensive.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok I am interested in co2 but I don't think I'll start with it. I think I'll get into that when I am further along the line experiance wise. That brings us back to my lighting questions. I reposted them in my lighting thread. (should've posted them there orginially just 4got) 

Thanks for all your help (again)!


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