# Salt or Fresh which is better?



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

So Hubby & I recently acquired a 55gal tank full setup for Freshwater fish. BUT a friend of mine offered to give me all his old saltwater equipment for the tank he has everything i would need for a new setup except water. 

I have not a clue how to take care of a Saltwater tank. He says he can help and go through it all with us and teach us what we need to know. 

Now My question is what am I going to get myself into? 
Is it better for me to stick with freshwater or should I take the leap and learn all i can about salt or stick with what I already know. How much work exactly is a salt water. I always heard stories of how hard it is to take care of saltwater tanks which is why I was never really interested. 

Then my husband suggested we start small and turn our 30 gallon into a saltwater. just transfer all the fresh over to the 55 gal. 
Is it easier to take care of a Small saltwater tank or better to go large? 

Thanks everyone!


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

Also he is also giving me Live Rock with the equipment which I have read helps with filtering. We would like a few plant life or coral eventually but mostly fish. Nothing too crazy we would like to stay on the lower end of the price scale on fish. Damsels and clown fish and whatever else is friendly. I was all community fish No aggressive even if they are super pretty. That is why i stayed away from Chiclids I like happy fish LOL

Now I have another question since we were discussing this last night. We will most likely be moving within the next year. How hard will it be to take down move and reset back up. We will be staying within our city so it wont be a huge move.


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

fresh is going to be easier to maintain and less background knowledge is needed to have fresh. its always nice to atleast have freshwater background before jumping into salt but its not required. IMO there is a lot less death in saltwater and seemingly less disease. in my 10 months working at a pet store i have seen 2 saltwater fish get sick and die but it did not transfer to other fish. while i have seen countless diseases in freshwater. given these tanks are all very mature u may not have as high of success rait with a new young tank. they say it takes 1 year for freshwater to fully mature and 5 years for salt. also note that in the case that a saltwater tank does get a serious disease it can be much more difficult to treat because of all the living organisms that are in the sand and rock. a hospital tank is usually required to treat any fish also if u have any inverts in the tank lots of medicines can kill them. though it is recommended having one with freshwater its not so much required because its usually simple enough to treat the entire tank unless you have inverts and you need to treat with medicine that will kill them. but like i said its better to have a hospital tank so u can try to prevent any disease from transfering. salt water is always easier to maintain a larger tank. more water means more room for error. the upkeap on a saltwater is going to be a bit more because u have many things that need to be balanced especially if u want to go with corals or anything like that. with salt there is just such an immense range of what u can do with it that makes it a little more confusing. a 55 gallon is about the smallest i would recommend for any beginner salt water keeper but 75 is even better. get a sump for it to increase your total gallons. it will allow u to have more fish and be easier to maintain. oh and with saltwater u cant have nearly as much fish because the water is far more dense and usually warmer making it a lot less oxygenated. but really if u take the time to do the research and do everything the right way neither of them are that hard.


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

lol i just read your second post and damselfish(clown fish are also a type of damselfish) funny thing is they are nicknamed the cichlids of saltwater which i see u said u avoided cichlids.. while they are not cichlids at all they most certainly have the teperment of cichlids. they can be extremely aggresive. there are a few different types that are less aggressive but im not sure what kinds those are except for green chromis. if u want peaceful community you are mostly going to want to look into different types of gobies and blennies and a few other fish that dont get huge im sure there are people that will list some for you. dwarf or pygmy angels are sweet. and if u eventually want corals its best not to add any for atleast 6 months til the tank is stable and any fish you get until that point make sure they are reef compatible. find a compatability chart and start finding fish that you like the most. be wary tho because compatability charts are pretty broad and only catagorize types of fish and not each individual fish. they will not all act the same or be able to have the same tank mates just because theya are the same type of fish.


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

yeah... damsels aren't aptly named. At ALL. Mean, nasty brutes.

Saltwater is a lot harder to get set up, running, and stabilized than freshwater, but after that, I've always found them to be a lot less hassle. A bigger tank is less hassle than a small one, so starting small is actually not such a great idea.

As for moving, saltwater tanks are much trickier to move, usually, but not always. It depends on the substrate, Digging it up is a pain, so if you can just leave it alone during the process you'll have no more trouble than moving a freshwater tank would give you.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

If you're not sure, go into a fish store with both salt and fresh water fish. Find the best looking FW fish and the ugliest (but not diseased*) SW fish. The SW will look better. SW is more interesting and relaxing to watch, but is harder and more expensive to get going. If I were you, I'd try it. As for moving a tank, FW is easy enough.( bag it up and drive really fast) I don't know about SW, though I've heard you can put everything in a clean Rubbermaid container with some air stones and be fine. SW looks and is better (in my opinion.) You have the opportunity, so go for it.


* If you go to any store that has sick or dead fish, walk out. If that is the best they can do with their fish, you won't do much better with their stock.


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Saltwater does have three major advantages over fresh:

1-- the salty water of the world is almost all the same all over the planet. This means you don't have to worry about the different fish needing different water conditions, which is very much a problem in freshwater.

2-- While saltwater diseases are very deadly and swift-killing, they are few in number and most of them are very easily cured by the same small handfull of treatments. Freshwater diseases are very numerous in comparison, and require numerous treatments to find what works to cure them. Quarantine is absolutely necessary in saltwater, but that quarantine is very easy compared to freshwater's version.

3-- Protein skimmers work in saltwater, but not in fresh. Skimmers make your life SO much easier.


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

old salt why is it so much easier for salt water quarentine? lol i know we only have about 1/3 the amount of salt tanks as we do freshwater but we have about 20 quarentine/hospital tanks for freshwater and only one for salt lol.


----------



## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I want it known that the ONE vote for saltwater was mine and I accidentally clicked the wrong thing! lol I meant to hit Freshwater!!


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

lol the one vote for both was me because they both have pros and cons i dont really think they can be compared on the same level equally its just a matter of which is best suited for you. ive seen people fail at salt water and do great with fresh and vise versa.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

I will still say that even though saltwater is harder, it looks better and is more rewarding.

*Cough... This is coming from the one that only has a fresh water tank... Cough*


Go away fairness to both sides of the argument! No one asked you!


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Revo, the reason saltwater quarantine is so much easier is that one treatment can wipe out a dozen different things at once. That's a big time saver, and it keeps fish safer when you can get rid of so many things at once. Having your fish get nailed by one thing when you are treating for another is a real drag, but when you can get so many things at once with the same treatment, the odds of this being a problem are greatly reduced.


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

TheOldSalt said:


> Revo, the reason saltwater quarantine is so much easier is that one treatment can wipe out a dozen different things at once. That's a big time saver, and it keeps fish safer when you can get rid of so many things at once. Having your fish get nailed by one thing when you are treating for another is a real drag, but when you can get so many things at once with the same treatment, the odds of this being a problem are greatly reduced.


thanks that helps a lot when talking to people about salt water. i mostly send them off and have them come back to our salt water guy. i dont like asking him these questions because he doesn't really have time to sit around and talk about it off of the clock. i noticed we only have like 2-3 medications for salt water when we have like 10 for fresh.


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

Ok so I am really glad I decided to make the 30gal saltwater instead of the 55gal. Because now if I get too frustrated or fail completly its alot easier to empty & clean the 30gal LOL

Since Mike & I decided we want to turn the 30gal into the saltwater instead of the 55gal we didnt set anything up except a filter for the 55gal. So I have setup the 55 and its cylcling so i can move my fish from the 30gal too the 55 (fun fun fun) 

But here is a list of what I've got:
Tons of live rock (not live but dead since its dry and been in his attic for a few months but he said If I add a piece of live it will spread?
Also Tons of crushed coral
a Protein Skimmer ( the Sea Clone 100 by Instant Ocean)
H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro System by Marine land (he also had a Canister Filter Magnum 350 by Marineland but we set that up for the fresh water tanks since it was larger)
Various heaters, chemicals, testing kit, this glass thermometer thing I forget what he called it >_<

But I've got lots of goodies  Now I just have to learn how to set them up and use them!  
Yay! lol


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> thanks that helps a lot when talking to people about salt water. i mostly send them off and have them come back to our salt water guy. i dont like asking him these questions because he doesn't really have time to sit around and talk about it off of the clock. i noticed we only have like 2-3 medications for salt water when we have like 10 for fresh.


Revolution, doesn't your work have a learning center to improve your knowledge? At my work (I also work at a petstore but in the grooming dept) They allow us to further our knowledge with different literature and tests, we get training pay and a little certification for completing these extra courses.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Salt water FTW!!! You'll need to go bury the SeaClone in your yard however; according to TOS and many others, they suck. Horribly. 

The liveliness of live rock will spread to your dead rock; so hurray!

Crushed coral = yay!

The filter you have I know nothing about...

Focus now on your protein skimmer and setting up the tank so that it doesn't leak. Get a sump. They're worth it. I'd either drill the tank or get a HOB overflow (just Google it...)


Well, you're officialy ahead of me, so good luck and keep us posted. Be nice to all of the noobs of the world; make a video series of your progress. If you do well, they/we 'll do well. If you make some mistakes, they/we 'll learn from them. Please?


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

lol now we dont have anything like that. i work at a local petstore with 3 employees. the owner doesnt care about animals he was kinda forced into it. he ran the scuba part of the store his wife ran the pets. his father in law owned it. she died somehow idk he was forced to take over while his father in law retired. the only thing he sees are $ he did hire me because i had enough experience in keeping reptiles and some in fresh but he could care less how much more i know then what i told him. so i and one of the other employees are always working to further our knowledge. the other guy really doesnt kknow anything and doesnt care to. the only fish tank he had was overstocked with huge fish he got rid of them and now he doesnt have anything. customers dont like him lol.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Did you ever catch the "Shoplifters?"


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, I guess a Seaclone is better than nothing, if only marginally.

Aragonite sand will work a LOT better than crushed coral. Crushed coral gets very dirty very quickly and is a pain to siphon clean without turning your tank's water milky white, and aragonite very slowly melts, releasing needed calcium into your tank.

A learning center? Nice!


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

funlad3 said:


> Did you ever catch the "Shoplifters?"


lol what shoplifters?


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

The spaz family that would run around the store trying to catch the feeder minnows! I can't remember which thread it was in. Search for "Shoplifters" in the search thing at the top of the page.

And thanks for the correction TOS. I always confuse the substrates.


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

My friend did say I should just toss the Protein skimmer but it would be a good start out one. He grabbed it on clearence so he said as a beginner its good for now.

I really wish I had the space for a wet dry system it looks so much easier and alot less junk on my tank!

Can I use a regular filter for salt? some stuff I have been reading say if I have enough live rock I dont even need a filter? Does this work and or is it easy? the less crap I have hanging on the tank would be nice.

Any suggestions on the brand of salt to use when mixing my water? there are about a million different brands >_<


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

funlad3 said:


> Well, you're officialy ahead of me, so good luck and keep us posted. Be nice to all of the noobs of the world; make a video series of your progress. If you do well, they/we 'll do well. If you make some mistakes, they/we 'll learn from them. Please?


Sure I will! I didnt even think of this before/while I was setting up my Freshwater tank! Dang! it would have been perfect..Darn! lol


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

The Live Rock will have all of the bacteria that a filter would, so it's not needed. As for salt, I'll be using Instant Ocean. It has, from what I've read, the best reviews. You can get it at its cheapest from Drs. Foster and Smith .com . Good price. Yep.


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

funlad3 said:


> The spaz family that would run around the store trying to catch the feeder minnows! I can't remember which thread it was in. Search for "Shoplifters" in the search thing at the top of the page.
> 
> And thanks for the correction TOS. I always confuse the substrates.


oh you mean the ones i mentioned that were pounding on the glass and about 15 fish jumped out in my face.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Yeah. Them. Are they banned from the store yet? Just wondering.


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Instant Ocean or Reef Crystals are both good. Tropic Marin is also good.

You do NOT want a wet/dry. Those things are a menace. Saltwater people quit using them very soon after they got popular once it was discovered that they are "Nitrate Factories." They make nitrate SO fast that you can never get rid of it.

Regular filters are okay if you have lots of live rock, but you'd only use them for mechanical filtration, and you would have to keep them cleaned often to prevent nitrate buildup.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Question from an answer: If Wet/Dry filters are nitrate factories, what does that make BioBalls?


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

So if I get the Live sand And Live Rock basically I wont need any filters then. Maybe bubbler and Protein skimmer is all I really need right? Oh and a heater.

I can get instant ocean pretty cheap at work plus I get a discount 

Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it.
I just find it amazing that its sounding alot easier that I originally thought. I was thinking I'd need to have all this crazy equipment and changing water all the time!


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

It's annoying that everyone thinks this is hard. There are only two more chemical levels that you need to monitor. One bad story though makes at least ten people think that it's impossible. 1,000 bad stories = 10,000 people who don't do it. That's about the amount of people who take up FW. Wow.

Yeah, you want a skimmer. Also, do you live near Chicago? Want to pass spme of those savings on to me? Huh?


----------



## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

no they weren't band from the store but ive been a hard ass to them when they get annoying.


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Good! You're their to service them; not to clean up the mess they make in your store!


----------



## RaeRae84 (Dec 19, 2010)

funlad3 said:


> Yeah, you want a skimmer. Also, do you live near Chicago? Want to pass spme of those savings on to me? Huh?


Haha I would but I'm all the way down in Florida


----------



## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Oh.... Darn.


----------

