# My goldfish stays at the bottom of the tank.



## Oranda

My calico goldfish has recently started laying on the bottom of the tank, it'll move occasionally and rest again at another spot on the bottom of the tank. It normally would swim around, doing barrel rolls and playing with the other goldfish. It just started doing this yesterday. I figured it was just sleeping but it's been doing it all day now. Nothing new in the tank or in their food regiment. No ick or parasites that I see on it. Just concerned. 

:fish:


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## humdedum

SBD? You could feed some peas and see if it clears things up; food may have gotten stuck in the gut.


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## Oranda

I've tried the pea trick in the past when it becomes buoyant and it's struggling to stay from the top of the tank. Never had it happen for when it's weighted down.


Completely different question, but is it ever a good idea to take all the gravel out of the tank and thoroughly run it through the water to clean it? I do a gravel vac every month regularly.

:fish:


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## humdedum

I think chlorine-filled tap water would kill the good bacteria on your gravel...how about gravel vacuuming every week, to keep things tidy?


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## Oranda

I could do that. Just never seen my fish stay at the bottom of the tank for a long period of time. I get that they sleep like that, but they're awake and doing it. So I thought maybe the tanks more dirty than I thought? Even when I gravel vac I always see stuff floating around and it bothers me it's in there. I change out my 4 filters every month.


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## egoreise

The tank could be dirtier than you thought! How much water do you remove each week? 
And definately gravel vacuum every week! Goldfish are big poop machines! I've been known to vaccuum, and then grab a net and catch a bunch of the floaties that are stirred up. Some might say I'm just being too picky, but I swear it helps! Just don't stress the fish more than necessary.

Also, when you change your filters, try changing one each week, rather than all at once. Some of your beneficial bacteria is in there, too.


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## Oranda

I should of been more specific about changing all 4 of my filters. I change one a week starting at the back and working my way to the forward ones. 

My calico goldfish has always had problems. If I feed them dry food/flakes he gets air in him and he becomes buoyant and I have to feed him peas. Now he's having a sinking problem, it's very noticeable. I'm worried he's over straining himself to swim off of the bottom of the tank.

:fish:

Could it be swim bladder disorder?


List to one side
float upside down
swim pointing head downward / upward
Unable to rise from the bottom <--- current condition
Unable to swim down to bottom <---- this happens a lot
Listless

If the fish is stuck at the bottom of the tank, it is advised to remove about 50% of the water from the tank, releaving some of the water pressure on the goldfish. 

With 3 other Goldfish in the tank is that a good idea?

Source:
http://www.desktopgoldfish.com/goldfish-diseases.php?disease=Swim Bladder Disorder


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## Cichlid Man

I'd say as you've already mentioned floating matter in the water, and the fishes condition, overfeeding is the problem, you'd be suprised at how much food fish can thrive on.....I'd say depending on the last water change, if it's been over a month since a water change then do a 10% water change today while gravel cleaning, a 20% water change the following day, then a 30% the next day, then the following day make 50% water changed every day until the tank is crystal clear........if it was within the week since the last change then just do a gravel clean removing 50% of the water, and repeat everyday until there is no floating matter in the tank........during this you should feed the fish about the equavilant amount of the size of their eye for a while, once the fish are healthy you can step up the food, but I'd say cutting down the food a lot.


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## Mr. fish

Your problem is lack of cleaning and changing out your filters too often.

Filters shouldn't be changed out for ATLEAST 4-6 months... what you can do to keep the debris off is when you do your water change, swish your filter pad around in the bucket with the old tank water. Every time you change out your filters you're losing good bacteria which helps fight off ammonia.

Also, goldfish are very high polluters. You need to do water changes once a week, not once a month.

What size is your tank and how many goldfish do you have? (This could also be your problem)


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## Oranda

4 oranda goldfish in a 25g. I had a 90g being delivered up here but the company I had shipping it didn't fasten it down properly and it was destroyed. They've reimbursed me for the cost of the aquarium ( hence my other post about building an aquarium ). I hadn't expected to have them in such a small aquarium for so long. I'd of transported my 90g with me initially but I can't fit that into a 76 Mustang.... so I had to transport them in a 25g when I drove from Kansas to Canada.

Being such a small tank was why I was cleaning out the filters often. I never changed the 2 bio-wheels. I only have a thin layer of gravel rocks so doing a gravel vac isn't hard. Just with a small aquarium I hated to take out so much water.


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## Mr. fish

Well its pretty obvious and you're aware you're over stocked for that size tank.

My suggestion to you is to perform 2 water changes a week in till you get your new tank setup. Also stop changing out your filters so often, just a good swoosh in old tank water will do the trick


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## Oranda

Should I clean my filters out at least when I do a gravel vac or just let them be?


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## egoreise

Once your bucket is full of dirty tank water, take out the carbon filters and swish them around in the bucket to get the excess gunk off. That should be plenty good enough.


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## Mr. fish

egoreise said:


> Once your bucket is full of dirty tank water, take out the carbon filters and swish them around in the bucket to get the excess gunk off. That should be plenty good enough.


x2


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## Oranda

Been gravel vacuuming the aquarium twice a week and I also added aquarium salt and he's been swimming around a lot more. I'm building a 55 gallon aquarium and it should be done by next weekend.


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## egoreise

Awesome!


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## Mr. fish

Nice... deff show us some pics! We love pics round here


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## Oranda

After doing a salt bath, trying feeding it peas, doing a Pimafix treatment I regret to inform you all that my Calico Oranda Goldfish passed away. I had moved my other fish to my 55 gallon and I treated the Calico separately so I wasn't inducing the other fish to un-necessary chemicals. I was gravel vacuuming the 29g tank twice a week and I only cleaned 1 filter in my Penguin 350 ( holds 4 filters ) a week as well.


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## egoreise

Oh, no! I'm so sorry.  I hope you can take the experience and apply it to your understanding of the hobby. Don't get too discouraged!


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## Mr. fish

First, sorry to hear about your loss.

But, I still dont understand why people recommend Salt!

*SALT IS NOT FOR FRESHWATER FISH, PEOPLE!* Thats why they make medications...


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## FishieLuv

Wow! Sounds like your fish are going to be spoiled with the upgrade!  It's great that you are improving their life.


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## Oranda

Mr. fish said:


> *SALT IS NOT FOR FRESHWATER FISH, PEOPLE!*


I was desperate to save my fish. Everything I was trying wasn't working. It looked like things were getting worst, he was becoming more and more inactive and he was taking deeper longer breaths. He had lost all his colour, he wasn't moving his fins and every morning I had to get him off of the bottom of the tank because he was on his side struggling to stay upright. A salt bath was the last thing I tried. 

If something like this happens in the future, what medical remedies would you suggest? I tried Primafix and it didn't seem to help. I read that swim bladder disease isn't curable but it is treatable.

:fish:


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## Oranda

My other goldfish ( Princess Leia ) is floating at the top of the tank at times. I'm not sure if she is just playing around or what. She does back flips and barrel rolls quite often. It first scared me because of my Calico having swim bladder. As soon as I go to the tank she rolls over and starts swimming normally ( for her ) and I am beginning to wonder if she's okay.. I took a video of her doing it. ( Excuse the audio, I had the TV on. It's Rescue Me talking in the background. )
:fish::fish:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v641/illivatur/?action=view&current=105_2707.mp4


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## Mr. fish

Oranda said:


> My other goldfish ( Princess Leia ) is floating at the top of the tank at times. I'm not sure if she is just playing around or what. She does back flips and barrel rolls quite often. It first scared me because of my Calico having swim bladder. As soon as I go to the tank she rolls over and starts swimming normally ( for her ) and I am beginning to wonder if she's okay.. I took a video of her doing it. ( Excuse the audio, I had the TV on. It's Rescue Me talking in the background. )
> :fish::fish:
> 
> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v641/illivatur/?action=view&current=105_2707.mp4


Theres many things you can use to treat.. But, we dont know exactly what was wrong with your fish. The symptoms you stated can be a wide range of illnesses. Did you ever check the ammonia levels? I'm more leaned to that and how you would treat that is by getting a product that reduces the ammonia in your tank.

It may very well be it was too late and nothing you can do. Did you use reg salt or aquarium salt? How much did you dose?

As for Princess Leia, thats definitely swimming bladder disease. They say peas help and cutting back on feeding in till they bounce back. I would feed only once every two days just enough for 2 mins. By looking at your other fish I would say they are really overfed. Best way to prevent swim bladder disease is to soak the food in water first then throw in the tank to prevent the fish from going to the top and gasping air while eating.


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## Oranda

I only feed my fish frozen blood worms. The kind that go in your freezer. I have the cubes ones that look like an ice tray. I feed them 1 a day.


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## Mr. fish

Really? Did you buy them huge like that? Or did they get like that over time?

Also you didnt answer my question about the salt and dosage?


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## Oranda

Yes I bought them that big. I got them from a warehouse. He imports them from China. The Orange with black fins was from Petsmart in Kansas. The yellow one and white one are from Winnipeg Manitoba, The aFISHionados warehouse. Here's his website, although I am not sure if he is still updating it.

http://cichlaholic.com/


I use Aquarium salt, I used the recommended dosage of 1 tablespoon for every 5 US gallons.


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## Mr. fish

All at once? Or gradually?


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## Oranda

They were that big from the start when I got them. The orange one ( Alpha ) is about 1 month older than the yellow ( Brain ) and white ( Princess Leia ) Orandas. ( Sorry about long reply, my PC died and I just got a laptop.


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## emc7

Fish regulate the amount of salts in their bodies vs. the tank water. A fish that is bloating sometimes is having trouble getting out excess water and increasing the ions in the surrounding water can help. 

Salt isn't something I recommend for freshwater fish all the time. Salt can be helpful as a treatment for bloat or for external parasites and fungus. Keeping fish in excessively salty water ruins salt's value as a treatment. It isn't a med, but everyone has it on hand, even when stores are closed and you often find it recommended in old literature.

Fish that come from a 'salty' body tend to do better in water with more ions in it. Some mollies live in brackish waters. Fish come from water with high levels of other ions (Calcium carbonate, magnesium sulfate, etc) will do better in tanks with "aquarium salt" (sodium chloride) than in soft, acid water, but they would likely do better still in water that more closely matches their 'home". Thus the 'cichlid salts' and other supplements. I calculate L. Malawi at about 1 tsp/10 gallons of 'salts' with more Mg and Ca than Na. Not many fish need any more than that. Tanganyikan and true "brackish" fish being the exceptions.

But fish that live in something close to "rainwater" in streams and rivers (and this a lot of aquarium fish), could suffer from long-term exposure to too much salt. Routine salting of tanks is neither necessary, nor wise. 

You might want to salt your QT tank if you get your fish from a place that salts their system (PetCo), because dumping a fish into less salty water can kill it. But you'd want to gradually remove the salt with water changes.

And don't add anything to water before you test it. Some places in this county have nearly rainwater come out of the tap and others have enough calcium carbonate that a dripping faucet will make a stalactite. People assume they know about their water. But a water softener definition of soft water (low calcium and magnesium because you've replaced them with sodium) is not the same as a aquarist's definition of softwater (low total ions). Always get some real numbers, test water both out of the tap and after sitting a day or more.

Always be very careful when you alter water chemistry. Make changes gradually and keep track of additions so you can match them when changing water.

Anyway, that's my salt rant. I'll just copy and paste it next time.


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## emc7

I'm not too sure about an unvaried diet of frozen bloodworms. Is that what the breeder told you to feed them? Most people recommend a varied diet. 

Bloodworms are nutritious, high in protein and good for red/orange color. But they can bunch up and get stuck in a fish's digestive tract, then decay and produce gas and feed bacteria in the gut. Fish with long-twisty, bloat-prone, plant-eating guts shouldn't eat any of them; protein-hungry, bug-eaters like better thrive on them; omnivores, should also eat other things. I am very careful with bloodworms in compressed fish like angels. Overeating can kill. 

I don't have any big pond goldfish, but I think they are omnivores and thus should have at least some plant-matter in their diets. I remember a fish vet talking about how some Chinese were killing their prized koi with an unvaried diet of silk-worm pupae. This stuff is so high in fat that fish were getting fat-induced liver failure and dying. (I just read in Tme that many Americans are now dying of the same issue).

The standard treatment for bloat is fasting, green food (peas or spirulina flake). often antibiotics and sometimes salt or epsom salts. Fancy goldfish (short-bodied double-tails) are especially prone to 'upside downing' and the recommendation is soak the food, sinking food, and more fiber in the diet (speeds up passage of food through the fish, less time to bloat). 

Here is a relevant web-link http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Proper_goldfish_feeding.html

According to that link, goldifish should have a TDS of about 150 ppm. That's about the same a Lake Malawi and works out approximately 1 tsp of "salts" in 10 gallons. It isn't uncommon for tap water to exceed that.


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## Oranda

Firstly, thank you Emc7 for that reply. Sorry I didn't notice it sooner because I think my current situation could of most likely been avoided had I noticed it.

I recently got 6 plecos, the fish store locally had gotten 200 extra by mistake and was selling them for $1 a piece. Turned out the one I had had been turned into crab food. Since I didn't witness the crabs kill the pleco I didn't feel I should accuse them and neglect my tank without getting another so I got 6 plecos. 

I noticed recently that my white goldfish had tail rot, so I had a medical tank (10 gallon ) set up for over 2 weeks. I have been monitoring the PH in it and have also been keeping the nitrates / nitrites in acceptable levels for when I would need to medicate my fish in the future. I kept the tanks at the same temperature so if I had to put one in it they wouldn't go into shock or be overly stressed. 

I put my white oranda into the tank, put in the proper medication ( Pimafix - 5ml as directed ) and the next day I noticed more of my fish were acting funny. 1 of my plecos was motionless at the bottom and 3 weren't breathing but were laying on their backs. I quickly set up my 30 gallon tank as a medical tank, I put in the proper amounts of Easy Balance and a small portion of aquarium salt. I let the tank get to the same temperature as the other 2 and I move all of my remaining fish into my 30 gallon. I did this because I read that fishrot is contagious. I put Pimafix into the medical aquarium ( 30 gallon ) and shortly after all the Orandas were acting more strangly. The small oranda is now floating upside down, breathing but he isn't swimming around. He just goes where the current takes him.

My white oranda is upside down but breathing and she occasionally flips over and swims a little bit but she always returns to the upside down position. 

My yellow oranda was upright but wouldn't swim around, he looks like he is struggling to breathe.

My larger orange oranda is breathing at a much more rapid rate but is still moving around like normal.

The PH levels in all my tanks are within acceptable measurements, as are the nitrates and nitrites. All 3 tanks have proper air going to them. I don't know what has very recently changed but I am in fear of losing all of my fish and I don't want that to happen. Please help!

:fish::fish:


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## Kimla10

*Fish at bottom of tank*

hello all, i have a goldfish fantail with a big lump type head her breed. she has been fine all except she just stays at bottom of tank (Fish Pod). swims around when food is about, has a barrel swim ever so often and seems fine. i just wondered if there is something i can do or ..... thanks Kim


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