# A quick note about the US economy.



## Albino_101 (Aug 14, 2008)

The economy will fix itself if somehow you can get every person to believe that it will definitely get better in the very near future, the economy is largely based on peoples opinions of the state of the future economy, thereby influencing how much the average consumer spends or saves. Businesses expand and hire more people when they expect a better economy in the near future or shrink and lay people off when they expect a worse economy. A good or bad economy stays that way until some event interrupts the cycle of what people think will happen to the economy next, a good example is the stock market scare back in the 20's which happened because of some inaccurate inside knowledge that made a bunch of people believe their stocks would be worhtless so they all cashed in at the same time, thereby crashing the stock market and being a major factor in causing the great depression.


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Albino_101 said:


> The economy will fix itself if somehow you can get every person to believe that it will definitely get better in the very near future, the economy is largely based on peoples opinions of the state of the future economy, thereby influencing how much the average consumer spends or saves. Businesses expand and hire more people when they expect a better economy in the near future or shrink and lay people off when they expect a worse economy. A good or bad economy stays that way until some event interrupts the cycle of what people think will happen to the economy next, a good example is the stock market scare back in the 20's which happened because of some inaccurate inside knowledge that made a bunch of people believe their stocks would be worhtless so they all cashed in at the same time, thereby crashing the stock market and being a major factor in causing the great depression.


In short our president, who has spent the most in any president's history, did not and cannot fix the problem. The liberals will be out in 2012.


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## mpfsr (Jun 22, 2011)

nothing can be fixed until we get rid of the 2 party system and lobbyists. When 1 party has the white house the other party try's there best to make things suck and vis versa. What ever happened to "by the people for the people"????? screw both the Dem's and the republicans..they both need Togo


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

mpfsr said:


> nothing can be fixed until we get ride of the 2 party system and lobbyists. When 1 party has the white house the other party try's there best to make things suck and vis versa. What ever happened to "by the people for the people"????? screw both the Dem's and the republicans..they both need *Togo*


They make some excellent sandwiches.


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## Albino_101 (Aug 14, 2008)

mpfsr, we need a 2 party system so we have a way of generally knowing a politicians stance on a subject without needing to hear him/her lecture about their views, what we need is a direct way to nominate which candidates that will run in the presidential election so that both parties can elect good candidates and we are not stuck with 2 bad candidates nominated by lobbyists leaving us to pick the lesser of the 2 evils, also we need a direct way to bring the charge of impeachment for any elected official without having to wait for the next election to vote them out or wait for their peers to bring impeachment charges so that way politicians will have an incentive to do what they promised or risk getting voted out early, with our the current system, after election, our president can basically do almost whatever the hell he wants to for 4 years, especially if it is his/hers second term and they don't need to worry about reelection.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Unfortunately, impeachment isn't something we just do for the sake of it, because we don't like how a president is doing. Personally, I believe there should be some sort of repercussions for elected officials that make false promises, but it would be very difficult to enforce or monitor.

Obama's overall approval ratings are at an all-time low, but he's still doing decently with Democrats - though not nearly as well as he was when he started. Plus, he's finally coming down off the "He helped catch a terrorizer!" approval boost he was at a few months ago. 

I stand by my stance that people should have paid *slightly* more attention to WHAT they were voting for, rather than WHO. We might not have this mess if they had. 

Oh, and we DO have a way to vote on party candidates - primaries.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Vote, or shut up. Some of the most vocal political opinions come from people who don't vote. If you're that afraid of jury duty, maybe you shouldn't vote, but I don't want your opinion. 

I do think the rhetoric needs toning down a bit. There is a lot of "the other party is going to cause a depression" speak that is having a real effect on confidence and thus spending. 

The treasury debt downgrade was a self-inflicted wound by politicians who said out loud that maybe we shouldn't pay what we owe, when we owe it, even though we can pay. What happened? People bought treasuries. The said if fed debt is risky, all the European, state and local debt is riskier still and it added another headwind to the economy. 

One drawback of living in a democracy is the uncertainty. When the electorate polls at 50/50 and each party promises different policy if elected, everyone waits for election results before making any moves. The winner-takes-all nature of our elections cause see-saw policy changes, each side vowing to repeal the other's laws. Proportional representation where a candidate with 1% of the vote gets a seat at the table can make for more stable policy, or it can cause gridlock and sudden collapses of governing coalitions. 

The "silent" majority needs to get off its collective rear and go to the primaries and screen out the candidates we can't imagine in office or even speaking for us to a global audience.

Unfortunately, its not just the US economy, its the global economy. Stuff like wars and revolutions, droughts, and the 'price of tea in China' are all connected.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Everyone needs to stop blaming each other for their own mistakes and work collaboratively for something that helps the public instead of their image, as seen by their party. I think that everyone should be forced to run as an independent so that we can abolish the party vote. the majority of politicians work against what they say they will so that they can gain the support of their collective "Party". This then leads to the party leading the country instead of the free thinking politicians that were actually elected.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I think people need to learn that there ARE differences in Democrat/Liberal and Conservative/Republican. You can be a Conservative Democrat and still be following the party standard, for example. 
That's why I classify myself as Conservative (or Moderate, depending on how you look at it), because I agree and disagree with things in both "parties".


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

hXcChic22 said:


> I think people need to learn that there ARE differences in Democrat/Liberal and Conservative/Republican. You can be a Conservative Democrat and still be following the party standard, for example.
> That's why I classify myself as Conservative (or Moderate, depending on how you look at it), because I agree and disagree with things in both "parties".


Of course you do. I haven't ever met a woman that strictly agrees with one party or another. No offense to you, but that's just how women's brains work. Why do you think professional poker is dominated by men?


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay, I think this thread should end.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I"m honestly curious - what does professional poker have to do with anything?


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

hXcChic22 said:


> I"m honestly curious - what does professional poker have to do with anything?


My point with that was that men are more anxious to take risks than women.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Most Americans are moderate. They say they are independents and don't vote in primaries. This lead to primary winners with far right or left positions. 

I would say I am fiscal conservative. By that I mean don't spend more money that you have, don't take unnecessary risk with taxpayer's money and don't spend money on unnecessary things. But I am not in favor of "Laissez-faire" economic policy. Government should spend during a recession, save during a boom. America has real problems doing the latter. But it should buy real things that last 50 or 100 years. Build highways, but make contractor guarantee them for 50 years. Markets do not self-regulate, corporations can not be trusted, too big to fail is too big to exist. Break them up or let them fall. 

I am a individual liberal. Moral / amoral / immoral should have absolutely nothing to do with legal / illegal. No one needs to know what happens in my bedroom and no one gets to say what I do or don't do to my body. Law enforcement should prioritize crimes that disrupt many lives. Blocking the expressway is rude but not immoral, but should be illegal. 

The NAR goal of getting 'dominion' over government, culture, business, etc. is just scary enough to me to vote against Perry & Palin and others associated with it. I am a strong believer in separation of church and state and believe theocracy will inevitably lead to oppression and abuse in the best case and wars and genocide in the worst.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Did you guys notice that the price of gold dropped nearly 200 bucks an ounce over the past few days? That's caused by confidence rising back up to normal. Bad for gold dealers, but good for the rest of us.
I only know a very few people who are perfect models of what we think of as liberal or conservative. They're scary. Luckily, most folks are a mixed up mishmash of ideals. Too bad we don't have a party for them.


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

I might just register as a Republican so I can vote in the primaries for Rick Perry... 
the only "liberal" or Democratic main idea that I really agree with is that funding for non-oil fuel source research should be increased. But at the same time, I agree with Conservatives that in the mean time, domestic production of oil should be increased.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If we are going to use oil, domestic beat importing it. We need to be smart about it, though, and regulate and enforce enough to minimize collateral damage. BP has shown us how oil money corrupts regulators. Amoco had finally started cleaning up its act before the BP merger, but reversed course until overseas management. It seemed to be really working on health, safety and environmental impact, but BP only gives that stuff lip service here. Many corporations are good neighbors to people near headquarters, but only care about profits on the other side of the world. 

Texas is one state without budget problems, but you can't credit Perry. Texas oil is propping up both the Texas state tax revenue and Texas's economy.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

When technology advances, machines replace humans in jobs and cause unemployment and increased profits. Eventually, competition drives prices down and profits fall, but the jobs never come back to humans. What's happening now is that computers are smart enough to replace service workers. Tellers, cashiers, meter readers of all kinds, court reporters, translators, and many more jobs are vanishing.

The surplus work force can cause trouble, it can emigrate somewhere with a demand for labor, or it can create new industries. But it is always a tough time to live in. Retraining people for next gen jobs is tough when you don't know what they will be.

How do we install enough hope to stimulate investing of some of those profits in R & D and new hiring? Companies and banks are sitting on cash scared to look past the next reporting period. How do you give the whole world a pep talk?


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