# Pale leaves and mulm



## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Two questions.
Firstly, what can cause pale leaves? Or do newer leaves tend to start paler than the older ones and green up later?

Secondly, is mulm good or bad for a tank with fish in?


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Mulm is usually a result of inefficient filteration.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

A cpl of things can cause pale leaves. Ca, Mg, K, and Fe defficiencies can all cause pale leaves. Are the leaves pale all over? Does it appear as yellow spots and then spread? Are they new or old leaves? Some plants will grow in pale then green up. What kind of substrate are you using? Ferts?

If the leaves grow in yellow with green nerves then Iron is likely your culprit.
What is your Gh? If its 3 or higher, Ca or Mg probably isn't the cause.

Edit:
Mulm is good in a tank. Its where the majority of your bacteria resides. Too much is a result of inneficient filtration but every established tank has some. 
You want to jumpstart a cycle, add mulm to a tank before adding substrate.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Now that just flow over my head. I better just leave the plant stuff to you Simpte. :lol:


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Right well Ive been using regular flourish for the past week and Ive put in the dosage it says and done it wice so Ive actually done double the dose it says on the bottle (ish). That says it provides most of those things anyway. 
The water is hard, GH 300ppm of whatever it is and KH 200-210 (its the nutrfin test kit if that helps). It is just normal gravel but I did put some root tabs in for a bit of help.

The hygrophilas and anubias have newer leaves that are paler and it is the whole leaf that is pale. There is also another anubias which has some leaves that are just paler on the edges.

Is mulm excess food and plant remnants then? So having a lot of mulm will put strain on the bio filter?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Mulm is organic material (rotting food, rotting plant material, fish waste). It provides food for plants and bacteria the same. It stays trapped beneath the substrate so it doesn't harm water quality. It only feeds plants and bacteria. In a well planted tank, you don't have to gravel vac, just skim the top like sand.


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## euRasian32 (May 19, 2005)

*Nutrient deficiencies:*

Carobon dioxide: White deposit. Stunted growth. Plants die back.
Calcium: New leaves are mis-shaped or stunted. Existing leaves remain green.
Iron: Young leaves are yellow/white, with green veins. Mature leaves are normal.
Magnesium: Lower leaves turn yellow from tip inwards. Veins remain green.
Manganese: Yellow spots and/or elongated holes in between veins.
Nitrogen: Upper leaves are light green. Lower leaves are yellow. Bottom (older leaves) are yellow and shriveled.
Phosphate: Leaves are darker than normal. Loss of leaves.
Potassium: Yellowing at tips and edges, especially in young leaves. Dead or yellow patches or spots develop on leaves.

-Today's Essential Guide to Growing Aquarium Plants, by Peter Hiscock


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

TOS: That was gonna be my next question. About gravel vacuuming.

So you can have as much mulm as u like in a planted tank or is there a point where it does leak into the water and the quailty suffers?

The veins dont appear to be a different colour to the rest of the leaf. Do you think that the plants are just growing and need to "grow into" their colours?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

If you don't overfeed and keep a balanced tank, the mulm will never hurt the water. If you overfeed like crazy and leave excess food everywhere then sure your water will suffer. Thats a nice bit of info, Eurasian32 but there are a few incompletes. For instance lack of mg is hard to tell from lack of fe. Lack of mg prevents plants from utilizing fe. Sulfur deficiency is similar to N (though I've never seen a lack of sulfur and don't know anone who even checks fo it). Lack of P also looks similar to lack of N.

Chuck Gadd has one of the best sites around..................
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm


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## euRasian32 (May 19, 2005)

I got the info from a diagram in a recently purchased book (published in 2004) listed above. The link was very thorough, thanks for the reference.


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## Huugs (Apr 25, 2005)

Yea that link was useful thanks. I think ill give it a while longer before I decide to do somethinglike dump a ton of ferts in. I reckon it would be a good idea if Shaggy made an area where people could put up links to sites with good reference stuff on like a link to Chucks site. Just a kinda list where people can go and if that was checked by people who know about these things then regular members like me would know its right.


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