# Water readings going coocoo!



## AguaDulce (Nov 26, 2005)

Test kits used: API Master Test Kit used for Ammonia, PH, NitrIe, and NitrAte. Mardel 5 in 1 test strips used for Total Alkalinity and General Hardness. 

55 US Gallon tank.
Filters: Penguin 330 bio-wheel and Emperor 400 bio-wheel 

Temperature: 80-84F

My Local Tap Water:

Ammonia: 0.25ppm
PH: 7.2
Total Alkalinity: 240ppm
General Hardness: 250ppm
NitrIte: 0ppm
NitrAte: 0ppm

Current Tank Water: 

Ammonia: 1.0ppm
PH: 6.8
Total Alkalinity: 80ppm
General Hardness: 250ppm
NitrIte: 0ppm
NitrAte: 10ppm


I think I’ve been fishless cycling for about a month now. But just about 2 weeks ago I went into a re-cycle, my tank seemed like it was ready. I was getting the ammonia spikes and then the nitrIte spikes as well. So I did a 90% water change and added new water with out de-chloring the water, so I think I killed a good deal of the bacteria in the gravel. I did turn off the filters. I took me about 20 min to change the water. So about 2 hours after I did the water change I got some fish, then I tested the water and ammonia was at 0ppm and NitrIe at 5.0ppm. So I wasn’t able to return the fish to my LFS so I added the fish, and they were fine for about a week. When the fish were in the tank the ammonia was at 0ppm, but NitrIe was still at 5.0. So I decided to return the fish to my LFS, so then I did a 50% water change, this time I did de-chlor the water, and then I added some ammonia. So after few days the ammonia did drop to 0, so I added some daily and tested daily. NitrIe was still at 5.0 for about a week and a half, until now they dropped to 0, well when I test the water its not exactly light blue which means it’s at 0 it’s more at like a pale blue, but it’s not like a light purple which means is at 0.25. That’s according to the API master test kit. So now my ammonia seems to be locked at 1, it’s been like that for about 2 days now, and it hasn’t dropped. I haven’t added any ammonia since then. So until today I decided to test the NitrAte, PH, Total Alkalinity and General Hardness. So PH dropped about 0.4 points compared to my local tap water, and the Total Alkalinity dropped 160ppm. NitrAte are at 10. I really don’t know why some of them dropped, but I’m suspecting that maybe the ceramic bio-tube peaces I got about 2 weeks ago might have something to do with it, do they? I also have some live plants, I don’t know the name but they are like long grass. I have some of them in there and the rest are just fake ornaments. I also have some air stones pumping some bubbles inside the power filters. That’s about all that’s in the tank. The tank walls are getting covered in whiteish algae and some brownish algae. The tank lights are on 24/7. So I really don’t know what’s going on, what do u think? I think I should do a large water change and then let it sit for about a few days then see what my readings are, but I need some advice first. Well any help and advice would be great! Happy holidays! Thanks!


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

first off, if you should *always* decloriante your water before adding it to your tank! Im sure it did kill off some of the bacteria doing a 90% change without treating the water.. Im not an expert on the rest or cannot contribute "decent" advice as I find I do things wrong alot too! I can safely add that you should* never * leave your lights on 24/7 - maybe 7-10 hours at the most..


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## AguaDulce (Nov 26, 2005)

oh alirght, thanks! i've hear that having ur light on 24/7 will help the growth of the nitryfing bacteria, is it true? Thats the only reason why i have them on 24/7. yeah i will de-chorl before from now on  Well i think i got my answers now buy reading around the posts. I've read that the ph is unstable whenever ur tank is cycling, so that make alot of sence, but i really dont know why my ammonia is locked at 1, but i will just wait it out, and if it doesn't drop, then i will just do a large water change(de-chroling the water before of course ) then i will add some ammonia and see if it dropes to 0, what do u think? Well thanks alot for the advice! have a good one!


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

If your local tap water has .25ppm then it wont do you any good with water changes


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

Georgia Peach said:


> Im sure it did kill off some of the bacteria doing a 90% change without treating the water...


Yup, it sure did kill off the bacteria


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## Beerleader (May 31, 2005)

I didn't think you were supposed to ever do 90% changes anyway due to it killing off the good bacteria you have built up. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd assume you'd do like 15 to 25% water changes instead. Hopefully someone else will answer this question in case I am wrong but 50 or more seems like way too much especially if you are trying to get it to completely cycle. I'd think that would make it keep recycling almost or mess up what you are had established. But anyone correct me if I am wrong.


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## AguaDulce (Nov 26, 2005)

Oh i c, well 50% water changes does sound safer, its better to keep it on the safe side ^_^ well thanks for the advice! Have a good one!


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## Beerleader (May 31, 2005)

I still think that is too much but don't quote me for sure. I always thought 25 was sufficient but I might be wrong unless its just a routine tank clean. But 50 still seems like too much, hopefully someone else will soon comment on this and we'll get another view before you change again.


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

Beerleader said:


> I still think that is too much but don't quote me for sure. I always thought 25 was sufficient but I might be wrong unless its just a routine tank clean. But 50 still seems like too much, hopefully someone else will soon comment on this and we'll get another view before you change again.


50% is fine for a well established tank but not for a cycling one


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

Ideally you dont want to change any water during the cycle if possible.
Chlorinated water kills the bacteria.
Amonia detoxifiers such as Amquel render most test kits useless.


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## heatherhoge (Nov 13, 2005)

when adding fish to new tank you will spike again. Thats why you need starter fish. Fish that are hardy or cheap like plattys or mollys. Your tank wont truly spike with out no fish or food. The tank needs these wastes and foods to spike. Never do a water change of more than 25 percent. If you do you will spike again and you take out all the biolgics in the tank. There may be some emergancy cases were I have been in I had to do a 50 percent but you have to be very carefull doing it. I had no choice I was losing very expensive fish because of a power outage for a long time. It was a night mare but if a must put the water in very slowly so fish can adjust to the water like you are aclamating. To fast is danger. I got through the 50% water change and all lived but I took 1 hour to do this in a 180 gal tank which the bigger the tank the more risk. Remeber to always use the declorinator too. Good luck.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

First of all agua, good job of giving water parameters. It helps us try to understand what's going on.
1. Your tests may not be exactly right. I doubt that your local water has any ammonia at all. Nitrate, maybe, but not ammonia. I also don't understand how you could have had nitrite of 5 ppm right after a 90% water change. You kit may be bad.
2. You did everything exactly right up to the point of not adding dechlor. at your first water change. I even agree with the 90% part. In theory, at the end of a fishless cycle, ammonia and nitrite have all been converted to nitrate. Right? So you have a LOT of nitrate. A large water change is necessary and should be done right before adding fish. I think you jumped the gun a bit. I don't think you were quite through cycling yet. You said your nitrite had spiked... Thats great you were almost there. But you should wait until nitrite drops to zero.
3. You may not have hurt your bacteria as bad as you think. If your local water system used chlorine only ( no chloramine ), it may can be dealt with by simply splashing the water as you add it. Chlorine will evaporate ( chloramine won't ). And you did turn the filters off. Thats where most of your bacteria is anyway.
4. 50% water changes are not bad. I change that much or more every week. My fish are used to it. If you let your water go for several weeks, I wouldn't try it tho. The key is that my tank water is still pretty clean from the week before so a 50% doesn't change things much.
So. Bottom line. If I understand. You don't have any fish in the tank and you are, in effect doing a fishless cycle. Right? Just keep adding enough ammonia every day to get it to about 3ppm. and check nitrite until it spikes and goes to zero. It shouldn't take long. If your nitrite get above 5, change some water. High nitrites will damage your bacteria. And don't add anymore ammonia than about 3ppm. That will also damage the bacteria.
Don't worry about your PH and hardness. It is not important right now unless it is very soft, and yours isn't.


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## AguaDulce (Nov 26, 2005)

Guys thanks alot 4 the advice, it sure helped! ^_^ Yeah i did get a little inpatient, but the nitrItes did spike and did go 2 zero, but maybe a large water change my have done somthing, but i'm getting tempted to get some hardy fish and just let them mature the tank, but i'm thinking about it. I hope my test kit isn't so off, but i should get another test kit, got any suggestions on one that is good? that is water based, or if there is a good one that uses test strips then i could get it, but i've heard the liquid based ones are alot better. Well thanks again for ur help, especialy you Ron V, you helped tons! Have a good one!


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Agua, don't waste your money on test strips. The liquid kits are hard enough to read accurately. The test strips are impossible. For a fishless cycle, you can get by with a test kit for ammonia and one for nitrite. You can keep up with the ammonia and nitrite spikes and when these both go to zero, you will be done!


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