# Diana Walstad vs. Greg Watson



## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

*Diana Walstad vs. Greg Watson(Pictures Below)*

So, as some of you know I'm transforming my 46G into a planted tank. As of now everything is emptied out, fish are in a bucket, old gravel is in another, and then today after work I need to scrub the tank walls down. Then, I will begin with the substrate. I will use the Diana Walstad method; top soil mixed with crushed coral lightly covered with pool sand. I won't be using any CO2- the kits are expensive and I feel if I make one myself I will risk dropping my pH and possibly killing all of my fish. It seems a lot of work to keep up with the DIY version anywho. I know I may have ordered some plants that require CO2 in the system but, we shall see how things pan out. I was also thinking about purchasing the Saechems Equilibrium and Flourish Excel. I know the Walstad version means not adding a thing and you don't have to do a water change for about 6months. I most likely won't be adding the fertilizers everyday, more like bi-weekly. Now, since I'm adding ferts does this mean the water changes will have to drastically increase?

Another method of planted tanks is the Greg Watson and using dry fertilizers (KNO3 KH2PO4 K2SO4 Plantex CSM+B FE)and mixing them yourself which saves a crapload of money vs. purchasing the Saechem brand. Although the person that mentioned this method to me didn't inform me of the 50% weekly water changes. I know I wouldn't be able to keep up with that. Does anyone know what the dry fertilizer substitute is for the equilibrium and flourish excel? Is there anyway I could just add smaller amounts of fertilizer so the water wouldn't have to be changed as often?

I just don't want my plants to die off from lack of nutrients when I first start. If anyone has some suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. Here are some websites that I have already visited relating to this topic:
Watson
http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/Dosing.php?c=5nwk9uilocf1p0gj8ag2maez6qeh330u
http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm
http://www.aquaticplantnews.com/
Walstad
http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2008/09/diana-walstads-el-natural-approach-to.html
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...3-february-2007-tank-month-diana-walstad.html
http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html


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## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

I hope you are ready for a serious challenge. And when you get bored with trying to balance mother nature in a glass tank (and fighting algae constantly), I have a 1973 Apollo rocket engine that I would like for you to overhaul or retro fit it for my 1970 Volkswagon. I curious to see which is easier. Rebuilding rockets or keeping a planted tank.


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## oblongshrimp (Sep 3, 2008)

Doesn't equilibrium put back minerals in the water? Unless you have super soft tap water I don't see why you need this. Excel is a CO2 supplement. Its not as good as actual CO2 but can help. There isn't a dry dose equivalent. The idea behind estimative index dosing is to never let the nutrients run out since that causes algae. The water changes associated with it are to make sure the ferts you add never build up to toxic levels. Since you aren't using CO2 your plants will be growing 10-15 times slower then if you had pressurized CO2. Because of the slower growth you probably don't need to add many ferts to your tank. A planted tank is all about balancing light, CO2, and ferts. If you have low light thats fine but if any of the other 2 things are out of balance you will get algae. For example if you have lots of lights and ferts but not enough CO2 your in for a bunch of algae, same thing if you have lots of light and CO2 but dont have enough ferts.


Pressurized CO2 is much better then trying DIY. Its much easier to keep stable levels and with a 46gal tank its going to be hard to have enough CO2 in there. 

What kind of lighting are you planning on using? The light will dictate if you need CO2.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

CFL

The photograph of you in your Bridal Outfit prancing across the lawn was 1st class.

IMHO you have not received many responses as you have done some research but you are completely lost here and responding to your post in detail would take hours (I know as I was almost completed when the Forum hiccuped and I lost my response last night).

The Reader's Digest version is that:

There is no Greg Watson or Rex Grig Method. These guys are just explaining their concepts of fertilizer concentrations as is set forth in your links.

The Walstad method does not work and if you have any doubts ask TOS.

If you are after low maintenance and a planted tank then provide:
2WGPG of PC with 75% 10kk and 25% 7.1KK;
a multitude of low to medium light plants;
applications of a solution of dry fertilizers based upon your experience;
a filtration system with like 3X the recommended value for mechanical and biological filtration media;
the tank situated proximate to and the water surface above a discharge (ie. a kitchen sink); and
a RO unit installed which has a hose which extends to the tank.

TR


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

I would have to use equilibrium because I use RO water and I have and upgraded lighting system pretty much made for a saltwater tank w/ one 96watt daytime and another 96watt actinic. I will probably only run the daytime light though. If I were to get a CO2 system how often would I have to replace the bottles?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Walstad setups are not designed for rapid plant growth, but for steady growth requiring no additives or CO2 or other tinkering. It's when people go monkeying around with them that they fail. If you want it to run without any effort on your part, and don't mind that it's slow, go with pure Walstad. Otherwise, try something else completely. Hybrid systems seem to be a big headache, as I think you've already figured out, based on your questions.

RO water is a detriment to a planted tank in most cases unless you add restorative minerals. Eventually the good stuff will leach out of the substrate and be restored on their own, but your plants could starve waiting for that to happen. Unless you just have to use RO for some reason, don't.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

cfl: Several Items



crazyfishlady said:


> ... I have and upgraded lighting system pretty much made for a saltwater tank w/ one 96watt daytime and another 96watt actinic. I will probably only run the daytime light though.


The actinic is probably a 460 to 480nm bulb. I would replace it with a 7100K bulb and try running both. Contrary to what the IN parrots post 7100K light will help with plant health and growth and will also make your fish's colors more vibrant.




crazyfishlady said:


> If I were to get a CO2 system how often would I have to replace the bottles?


If you are referring to a DIY CO2 (which will generate approximately 5PPM in a 110G tank with a 2L bottle) then a new bottle is typically required biweekly.




TheOldSalt said:


> RO water is a detriment to a planted tank in most cases unless you add restorative minerals. Eventually the good stuff will leach out of the substrate and be restored on their own, but your plants could starve waiting for that to happen. *Unless you just have to use RO for some reason, don't.*





crazyfishlady said:


> I would have to use equilibrium because I use RO water


You do not and this concept is one which, IMHO, is way over-hyped on the IN.

I know TOS and that his comments do not come from IN hype but from experience!

I also know that RO water provides an excellent baseline for water parameters as I have RO water plumbed into my sump.

I also know that with performing a WC monthly with tap water (the remainder during the month with RO water) for the first year of so of a tank's life is appropriate.

TR


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## oblongshrimp (Sep 3, 2008)

very very few plants need RO water. I have tanks with RO and aquasoil and tanks with tap and eco complete. Certain plants grow better in the RO and aquasoil but without CO2 and higher light you wouldn't be able to do much with those plants anyways.

If you used pressurized CO2 you could go 4-6 months I would guess on a 5lb tank. It would depend on how much you were actually using, you could also get a bigger tank to reduce maintenance.

For lighting unless you are using pressurized CO2 i would just have one on at a time (not using actinic)

Check out Tom Barrs site http://www.barrreport.com/ he goes over methods for both high light/CO2 and low light no CO2.


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

What I mean to say is, if, I purchased a CO2 system how often does the CO2 bottle need to be refilled?


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## oblongshrimp (Sep 3, 2008)

its it is a DIY mixture (yeast and sugar) then it would depend on your mix. More yeast means more CO2 production initially but it doesn't last as long. I would guess at least once a week. You would probably need multiple bottles for your tank and should switch them out individually to try and keep consistent levels.

If its a pressurized setup every couple months or longer depending on how big of a CO2 cylinder you can get (bigger ones cost less per lb to fill).


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## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

Soooo....what happened?


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

Well...I used a combination of each. I used potting soil mixed with some flourite and topped off with some pool sand. I also purchased some fertilizer PMDD Pre-Mix (http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/Do...g2maez6qeh330u) which I squirt in every other day and I also made my own CO2 system. I have found the jello mixture (http://joelfreshwaterfishtank.blogspot.com/2007/10/here-is-recipe-i-found-at-httpwww.html) to be much more consistent and longer lasting than the sugar and yeast mixture. Right now I have a problem with hair algae it grows on the older leaves of the plants and on the output of the filter, I need to cut down on the duration of light. Here are a few pictures, more to come hopefully later tonight or tomorrow.
Here is the tank before


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

crazyfishlady said:


> http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/Do...g2maez6qeh330u[/url]) which I squirt in every other day and I also made my own CO2 system. I have found the jello mixture (http://joelfreshwaterfishtank.blogspot.com/2007/10/here-is-recipe-i-found-at-httpwww.html) to be much more consistent and longer lasting than the sugar and yeast mixture.


CFL: Thanks for the link!

I am definitely going to try this as 3 months instead of 2 weeks = much joy.




crazyfishlady said:


> Right now I have a problem with hair algae it grows on the older leaves of the plants and on the output of the filter, I need to cut down on the duration of light.


I believe that you will observe this algae more on the older leaves of the slower growing plants.

I also believe, based on my experimenting, that lighting intensity (and quality) affect the production of this algae more than lighting duration*.

The growth on the filter output may be some type of moss and not algae.

With respect to your PMDD Pre-Mix adding an additional 1/4 pound of CSM+B will probably significantly help reducing the hair algae (you can very slowly add more until you observe no additional improvement).

One last fertilizer comment is that to your 1.5 pounds of dry fertilizer adding 6 tablespoons of chelated iron will probably also help decrease the algae which you are observing but not the extent that adding the additional CSM+B will.


*This assertion is based on my experimentation with a 110 tank and 300W of HQI-MH and 260W of PC in two fixtures (a total of four lamps, 2 of which are 10000K, one is 6700K and one is 7100K) and 5PPM CO2 (ie. DIY).

With all of this turned on for even like 8 hours/day and no fertilization the algae is unmercifull.

What I am currently experimenting with is the PC on for 12 hours per day every other day and MH on for 8 hours every other day with minor application of a fertilizer concentration similar to your PMDD (modified as set forth above) but without the nitrates.

TR


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

I have been leaving my light on for 12 hours a day using PC's, two bulbs, each 96 watts. Here's my unit: (http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-LIGHT-...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50) I switched out the actinic bulb for this one: (http://cgi.ebay.com/96-W-PLANT-GROW...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116) 

Thanks for all the excellent info Jones!


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm lucky to get online tonight my evil puppy chewed through my adapter cable for my laptop and sometimes it doesn't charge now... Here's the evil puppy Evie:








And here's the rest of the pictures:
The sand I used








My CO2 system








*1 MONTH AGO (Please excuse the placement, the plants were randomly scattered around the tank):*
































Ahhhh...enjoying the scenery...
















*NOW*
























BBA on leaves








And Hair Algae


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

crazyfishlady said:


> Ahhhh...enjoying the scenery...


Yea! Yea! So you say. I can easily observe executive guidance in action in your endeavor. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TR


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