# Gravel to sand swap?



## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok, so after finally getting this 10 gallon cycled I decided I wanna change the gravel to sand. I've never really done sand as a substrate before so ima need a lil help from y'all. 

1) Which sand is the best to go with and how many pounds do I need?

2) what's the most effective way of switching gravel out while still not disturbing the bacteria bed? (keeping tank cycled)

3) How much am I likely to spend?

I was thinking of doing a good vacuum cleaning before hand, then removing and placing ALL gravel into a stocking then laying my sand layer down and placing the stockings on top for about a few days? I don't know, how would you guys go about it?


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

There are lots of different kinds of sand one can use from playsand to sand from a local gravel pit. When I changed one of my 55s, I emptied the water and fish into a rubbermaid tub, hung the filter on it. Put the fish, rocks, plants and wood into the tub...Changed to mason sand bought at a local gravel pit, or should I say, they gave me two 5 gal buckets of it for free. Rinse the sand good, and re set up the tank. With the used water, and old filter media... along with the bacteria that grows on the plants , rocks and wood, I had no cycling issues. I replaced the fish in the tank as soon as it was up to temp. If you live in cold country, as I do, Gravel pits also have a product called runway sand. That is what they put on runways in the winter. It has beed washed and is a very uniform grain with very little powder "duff" in it. The next best IMO is mason sand, that's the stuff concrete masons use. Both grades are big enough grain so that it doesn't float around during vacuuming, but is small enough for fish to sift through it.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

and that sand gave you no issues? I just don't want any with phosphate in it, giving me a whole bunch of diatoms...


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

A good clean white sand is just normal playsand from Meijer or Walmart. Just rinse it out first to get all the suds and such out but once it settles, it looks great and it's super cheap too.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> A good clean white sand is just normal playsand from Meijer or Walmart. Just rinse it out first to get all the suds and such out but once it settles, it looks great and it's super cheap too.


Yea that sounds more like my budget lol

The normal play sand doesn't have anything in it that promotes algae does it?

And snyder how would you go about the process w/out disturbing the cycle?
Would you do it the same way BV77 recommended?

Btw thanks BV!


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

snyderguy said:


> A good clean white sand is just normal playsand from Meijer or Walmart. Just rinse it out first to get all the suds and such out but once it settles, it looks great and it's super cheap too.


I'm looking for more like a brown sand... not white as it gets too bright.

Whats a good brown sand thats cheap and wont effect the PH?


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

They have brown sand too at Meijer or Walmart and they're both safe. It's not as fine as the white sand too. When I switched over, I literally just took all of the water from the old tank to the new tank, added the sand, and the filters without cleaning them and all my discus turned out just fine. It will be cloudy for a few hours but it will settle down. If you have a sponge filter, it's probably best to use one of those first so you don't destroy your filter from the sand until the sand settles.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Late update:

Yea I ended up having to go with a 50 pound bag of Pool Filter sand for $9.99

Which probably just gave me an excuse to change over my 55 gallon to sand soon. But, as far as the process it wasn't as difficult as I thought it was gonna be.. To play it safe I put all the gravel in two hose stockings that a grabbed from the 99cents store and kept it on top of the sand for a week... Checked the levels today and everything was cycled as normal. Added some low light plants,3 Gouramis and 2 Dwarf frogs.. I'm liking the look way better now.

Thanks everyone, I'll post some pics in a few days.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

This is really making me want to change one of my ten gallons to sand...


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

egoreise said:


> This is really making me want to change one of my ten gallons to sand...


I highly recommend you do it... Gives the tank that SW look.

Just way till I post the pics..


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

I think it would really look pretty in my 10 gallon with the old music sheets for the background! It's heavily planted with fake plants and I'm just starting to introduce live plants. I imagine now would be the best time to make the swap since I've already got the frogs and snail in quarantine... less overall stress... Plus I've got another ten gallon cycled, with only two fish in it. So my betta and platies could temporarily stay there... hm...

You are a bad influence.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

And I've got two more tanks I'll be setting up soon... so that 50 pound bag sounds like a really good idea.... 



I wonder... how would it look to have half sand and half gravel? Or sand with a few river rocks?


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

egoreise said:


> You are a bad influence.


Lol, dont blame me... Blame the hobby haha



egoreise said:


> And I've got two more tanks I'll be setting up soon... so that 50 pound bag sounds like a really good idea....
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder... how would it look to have half sand and half gravel? Or sand with a few river rocks?


Yea, with the 50 pound bag you'll be able to do all your tanks if you wanted to.

I've never seen half Sand and half gravel, but, I would imagine it would look better just all sand. Or the sand with some river rocks on top would look nice, I have sand with Lace rock on top and live plants... Looks real Natural and the fish look like they feel at home..

Trust me, if you dont do it you'll end up regretting it once the frogs are in, not to mention the sand is not as ruff on the frogs belly's as gravel is. Mine was perfect timing too... Once the tank cycled and I was about to stock up, I decided might as well do it now or never.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

*sigh* Fine... I'll do it.  The frogs were doing fine with the gravel before (see the illness section to see why they've been quarantined), but I'd still like to do better for them. Plus I was experimenting with the gravel and tried doing natural with red, the two colors kept seperate, with a wavy line where they met up. They have started to blend together. It looks cool... but I don't like the red. My betta has a pearly body but it looks darker because the color of the gravel reflects!


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

egoreise said:


> *sigh* Fine... I'll do it.  The frogs were doing fine with the gravel before (see the illness section to see why they've been quarantined), but I'd still like to do better for them. Plus I was experimenting with the gravel and tried doing natural with red, the two colors kept seperate, with a wavy line where they met up. They have started to blend together. It looks cool... but I don't like the red. My betta has a pearly body but it looks darker because the color of the gravel reflects!


Yea some people can get real creative with the gravel...

Hate to brag, but, after going sand I would never go back to gravel again...

Yes, you are right. The frogs well do fine on gravel, I was just simply stating the sand is a bit smoother on their bellies..


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

They also aren't supposed to be kept with plastic plants.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

You are going to have to let me know how easy the stuff is to clean!

Also... doesn't sand have the potential to hold pockets of toxins, so you are supposed to rake it a bit each week? I'm worried about doing that with the extensive plants I have in my tank.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

egoreise said:


> They also aren't supposed to be kept with plastic plants.


No waaaaaaayyyyyyy? 



egoreise said:


> You are going to have to let me know how easy the stuff is to clean!
> 
> Also... doesn't sand have the potential to hold pockets of toxins, so you are supposed to rake it a bit each week? I'm worried about doing that with the extensive plants I have in my tank.


The stuff is pretty simple to clean. Just turn your filters OFF while you clean to prevent impeller damage.

I just simply start the siphon, do a circular motion right above the sand to pick up all the waste. Its normal for a tiny bit of sand to pick up with the biolad, but, for the most part sand weighs less so the bio mainly gets grabbed.

Then rake just a lil around the sand to prevent gas pockets, you dont have to worry about getting to close to your plants as your roots already move the sand in that area while they grow.

Let the sand settle back down a bit before starting the filter up.

Thats it! Pretty simple huh?


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

k.... I gotta try. What color is your sand?


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Tan color..

I believe all Pool Filter sand is the same color.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

Our WalMart doesn't carry it. Nor Home Depot, nor Lowe's... *sigh*


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

try the swimming pool store..


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

That's going to be my next step. Tomorrow. I've read that sometimes it is made with silica, so I'll have to be careful....


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

My Local pool store is where I got my Pool filter sand.

Just make sure they don't contain silica... which it shouldn't. 

Always good to double check


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

I just called a local pool place and they have it... without silica... but they only have 100 pound bags! For $17. STILL cheaper than getting enough sand for a ten gallon tank at PetSmart. lol! Looks like I've got some landscaping material....


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

egoreise said:


> I just called a local pool place and they have it... without silica... but they only have 100 pound bags! For $17. STILL cheaper than getting enough sand for a ten gallon tank at PetSmart. lol! Looks like I've got some landscaping material....


LOL!

I would try another store first... Its gonna be pretty heavy moving that bag around... Heck I lift weights and that 50 pound bag wasn't that light haha


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

That's pretty much all anybody had around here.

It really wasn't that bad to move.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

Done! I love it.  Just waiting for the sand to settle. I'm worried I didn't rinse it well enough, so I might try a water change to try to suck some of the dust out. Meanwhile my betta and platies are happily waiting in another 10 gallon tank that I have set up for some shrimp I will be ordering.
I've still got some fake plants in there. Two of them are silk, so they are fine. One is there because it's my betta's favorite plant. And then there's a bit more for the baby platies to hide in until some real plants grow in. 
For live plants, there's a moss ball, a peice of driftwood with a plant in it (not an aquatic plant.. I'll have to rip it out of there and replace it with java fern or something... silly PetSmart...), and some aponageton bulbs.

I went with some pretty river rocks, too. I just picked them up at The Dollar Tree. I put some in boiling water to make sure they hadn't been polished with chemicals.. looks like they were just sand blasted. 


Mr. Fish, I'll show my before and after pictures if you show yours.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

And I barely made a dent in that 100 pound bag. lol. I think I'll do my next two tanks with it and then use the rest to make a zen garden in the back yard.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

How long should I wait to turn on the filter? It's quite cloudy, but it doesn't appear to be sand granules floating around... 

I'm trying to be really careful. I even covered the area closest to the filter intake tube with rocks so there wouldn't be sand so close.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Congrats! LOL Yes, I'll show some pics soon. Wanna get my Neons in first. (Friday)

As for your question just till the sand settles a bit... make sure your pouring tank water in your filters to keep the media damp... Dont wanna lose that bacteria.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

I took my biowheel out of the filter and placed it in the water.  I'll probably just turn the filter back on in the morning.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Nice......


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

K, here we go. Before....













And after!: 











The new driftwood is pretty hard to see.. but it's nice. it has lots of hidey-hoes for baby platies.  Now dwelling on the idea of changing to a dark background.. but I really like my music sheets.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

100 times better!!

I love the music notes background...keep it.

The only issue I really see is the depth of the sand towards the left and right corners... Anything over 2-3 inches is a risk for gas pockets. So make sure stir those sides up real good weekly.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

Thank you! Yeah I thought of that after I did it. I will pay close attention to those. I guess I could take a little out when I clean...

It's not as bright and exciting, but it's more natural looking. And the betta stands out quite a bit more. I like that the music sheets almost blend in with the sand, so it looks like a continuation.


My other ten gallon tank is just set up and waiting for blue pearl shrimp (even though it currently has a few baby tiger platies in it), so I did it in dark colors to make them stand out. Black gravel, black damask background, and very dark wood. So I guess I'll be calling them the black tank and the white tank.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

I'd prefer natural looking than bright any day.. I like my tanks to stand out, so when I have guest over they can't believe their eyes.. Like how do you do that? lol


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

I can't wait to add more live plants!

There's a couple little aponogeton sprouts there. I've had really good luck with those in my low lighting so far. It's just a Wal-Mart hood with blue bulbs that are supposedly supposed to encourage plant growth. So it's dimmish lighting, but it's working! I'm also growing some in a tank with a much brighter light, and then probably moving some of it over to this one once it really gets going.


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## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Quick question for you guys. How long did it take for you to switch the gravel to sand? I have a bag of playsand i never used for my 72 gallon, and i'm seriously considering remodeling my 10 gallon, and i want to use sand. And what did you do with the fish while you were doing it? Did you just move them to a bucket?


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

egoreise said:


> I can't wait to add more live plants!
> 
> There's a couple little aponogeton sprouts there. I've had really good luck with those in my low lighting so far. It's just a Wal-Mart hood with blue bulbs that are supposedly supposed to encourage plant growth. So it's dimmish lighting, but it's working! I'm also growing some in a tank with a much brighter light, and then probably moving some of it over to this one once it really gets going.


Yea I gotta switch my lighting out... thought it would be enough but apparently some of my plants are just rotting away...



direlime said:


> Quick question for you guys. How long did it take for you to switch the gravel to sand? I have a bag of playsand i never used for my 72 gallon, and i'm seriously considering remodeling my 10 gallon, and i want to use sand. And what did you do with the fish while you were doing it? Did you just move them to a bucket?


It takes about a hour to two... Its pretty simple...

Just rinse your sand ALOT of times before you remove anything in your tank... Thats what takes the longest.. After rinsing it thoughly then you're ready.

Remove as much water as you can into a few buckets, place your fish in there. Scoop out your gravel, rinse the tank out well since nows a good time. Place about 1 1/2 - 2 inch of sand in there. Pour your water back in, let it settle for a good hour before turning your filter back on and then throw the fish back in.

Just make sure you rinse the sand with warm water and not cold or hot. It has a way of holding temp.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

"I highly recommend you do it... Gives the tank that SW look.

Just way till I post the pics.."


Why on earth would you say that??? Now they won't want SW tanks as bad! :fun: I kept ignoring this thread and just decided to read it. 100 lbs. of sand for $17??? My God! (Meaningless) I need some of that! Assuming it won't screw with my water chemistry in the salt water tank... I want deeper sand for jawfish of the blue spot coloration!

Awesome project and awesome results. Speaking of which, WHERE ARE YOUR PICTURES MR. FISH??? Sorry to yell...


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

Lol. That's right, Funlad. I'm going to fool people into thinking I have a SW setup, just to grind your nerves. 

I have no idea how pool filter sand would effect the chemistry of a SW tank, but the stuff I got for so cheap was 100% quartz. I can't imagine it would have any bad effect. Or do you need live cultures in your sand? I have no idea how SW works...

I'm in the process of setting up a hexagon tank that I scored for free a while ago, and I used the sand there, too.  And still soooo much left. If you were here, Funlad, I would beg you to come take some home. 

And hey.. yeah! Where ARE those pics?!


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

"Lol. That's right, Funlad. I'm going to fool people into thinking I have a SW setup, just to grind your nerves."

Don't mind me... Just going out to buy some bleach...


"If you were here, Funlad, I would beg you to come take some home."

Don't mind me... Just going out to return some bleach... (What do you mean I can't return it! My receipt is right here! What? It has to be initialed by a cashier? You know what? Just keep it!)



"I have no idea how pool filter sand would effect the chemistry of a SW tank, but the stuff I got for so cheap was 100% quartz. I can't imagine it would have any bad effect. Or do you need live cultures in your sand? I have no idea how SW works..."

As for cultures, I'd be fine so long as I slowly add layer by layer once a week. That way, I don't end up smothering any bacteria. As for the chemical composition, I'd imagine it would be fine. I'll put up a thread in the SW section and see what my options are. I don't really feel like spending $1.05 per pound of live sand, which is a joke.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

Aww, bleach is cheap. And good for many household uses. But I'm pretty sure your intention wasn't to sanitize my bathroom... so... :chair:

I hope it works out! Seems to me all the local pool places will carry it. It is a nice heavy sand and it shimmers just a bit! And at 17 cents per pound, it beats not only your live sand, but the 10 pound bag for $22 that I was originally faced with when I pondered trying sand.


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

funlad3 said:


> Speaking of which, WHERE ARE YOUR PICTURES MR. FISH??? Sorry to yell...





egoreise said:


> And hey.. yeah! Where ARE those pics?!


Sorry, long over due almost forgot about this. Ok, i'm lying... My plants wern't doing so good so I was trying to hold off for the pics in till I got new ones... But i'll show ya anyways, just picture it with new healthy green plants


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

ooooh nice! Is that driftwood real?!


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

No, but the one behind it with the moss attached to it is ... Believe it or not I got that piece at wall mart.

It does look pretty natural tho... thats why I grabbed it.


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

That's very cool! I need a really tall, knarly piece for my hex tank. 

Your plants look to me like they are doing quite well! These are new ones, right?


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## Mr. fish (Mar 8, 2011)

Take a look at your local walmart...Can't beat the price

No, those are the last of the survivors.. It was about 40% more planted then you see in the pic, I just removed all the dead ones.

Gotta new light for the plants (Life-glo) and started dosing Flourish, so hoping the remains can do a turn around...


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, in the pictures, they look fine! That doesn't mean I don't want more pictures when you replant!


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