# Very high pH, hard and soft water -- fish for a 10?



## humdedum (Feb 18, 2009)

Hello! 

I used to be a frequenter of FF until I got pretty busy, but now I'm back...with questions, naturally, lol. 

I have an empty 10 gallon. Think: empty tank. I've had it since I was eight (yeah, even the filter and heater YIKES) and I think I need to seriously revamp it. I'm planning to buy another trusty Bio-wheel filter (which I use for my convict cichlids) and a submergible heater, full hood with florescent, etc. 

I know it'll be several weeks at least until I can consider even picking out fish let alone purchasing them, but I like to plan ahead. ;-) 

What would be nice is to have a single goldfish. A pair might be pushing it, especially since it's a ten gallon; I can change the water daily however. 

Thing is, our water is quite messed up. 

The "natural" water, which is what I get from my hose or the tap in my basement (which is where all my tanks are, under request of the parents) is extremely hard. The PH is just about at 8, which is where my test strips end, and the hardness falls under the strip's "Very Hard". 

The water from the sink (and all of the sinks in our house) has been filtered through a water softener. Again, not something I can easily remedy: the parents went and got a softener and I'm not about to contest that.  The hardness registers as "Soft" to "Medium", but here's the scary part. The pH is _over the scale_ of my test strips. 

I know what you're thinking: a small African cichlid!

I have three convicts (two are in a 20 long with a divide, one is in a ten by himself, long story behind both, involving mother and father turning on each other while the fry were still tiny) and as expected, they are extremely aggressive. 

Before the whole convict thing, I had some platys and a couple of bettas (female), all of which were extremely hand-tame (even without present food). I have no idea how they exactly survived in our "sink" water, but I sort of would like a setting like that again. :console:

Suggestions for fish (no saltwater, obviously, I don't even consider myself up to the task) would be greatly appreciated! 

Would goldfish work? Should I go back to the platys and cross my fingers (there were some aggression problems between the females)? 

Thank you!


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## Homer (Sep 6, 2010)

If your filter and heater work save your money. I use heaters that my grandfather gave me from the 70s they work great, some even better then my new ones.


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

A 10 gallon tank is too small for goldfish, they grow. Livebearers like guppies or endler's would be a better choice.
If you want to upgrade (at least a 30 gallon tank) I have loads of Australoheros oblongum ready for new homes. They thrive in hard, alkaline water, don't kill each other between spawns, and don't claim a large territory.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Pupfish, like American Flagfish of Sheepshead Pups, would enjoy a tank like that, especially the Sheepshead. ( Cyprinodon varigaetus )
Sailfin Mollies would be another good choice.

However, since it's only 10 gallons, you might be better off just using bottled water from WalMart ( 5 bottles purple cap, 4 bottles green or blue cap ) and top up with the hard tapwater. That'll give you near-perfection for almost anything.


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## humdedum (Feb 18, 2009)

Homer said:


> If your filter and heater work save your money. I use heaters that my grandfather gave me from the 70s they work great, some even better then my new ones.


I don't know how good the filter is; it flows but I'm not sure if it cleans. I had about five baby danios living in a ten gallon (none of them were longer than a centimeter), so I sort of cheated with that. 

The heater does a pretty decent work with its job, but as the tanks are in the basement, I would hate for it to break. (I do live where it can get nasty cold in the basement) 



toddnbecka said:


> A 10 gallon tank is too small for goldfish, they grow. Livebearers like guppies or endler's would be a better choice. If you want to upgrade (at least a 30 gallon tank) I have loads of Australoheros oblongum ready for new homes. They thrive in hard, alkaline water, don't kill each other between spawns, and don't claim a large territory.


I figured that would be the case, so I'll steer clear of the larger fish who'll deserve something...well, larger. 

A size upgrade would be awesome but kind of hard. I'd need to go and buy a whole stand and everything, as the stand I currently have only can fit two ten-gallon tanks. The top 10 is being used right now. :chair:



TheOldSalt said:


> However, since it's only 10 gallons, you might be better off just using bottled water from WalMart ( 5 bottles purple cap, 4 bottles green or blue cap ) and top up with the hard tapwater. That'll give you near-perfection for almost anything.


I once tried using bottled water from our local large superstore. The pH didn't go down (right now I think we were stupidly attempting to keep cory cats with platys in our crazy water), and so we gave up the tactic. But maybe I can try anew with the store-bought water thing.

I'm sort of leaning towards a single-species tank of three or four platys. Would that be pushing the 10-gallon thing if I changed the water every couple of days?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Not at all. You wouldn't even have to change the water nearly that much. Once a month would even work, but twice would of course be much better.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Tough one! I would say use reverse osmosis water but if you don't buy the system $100+ its not worth it. I tried getting all my buckets and weekly going to the water store and filling them up....that stopped shortly..pain in the #%% to do. You could use chemicals like me and skip having a buffer but it gets spendy and requires constant monitoring. hmmm seems like the going with what the 'Old Salt' says would work but for more of a selection of fish the chems would be the way to go. I use 'Seachem Neutral Regulator 7.0' once a week mixed in my buckets before I pore and it works. 

If you do get your ph under control I would suggest some thread fin rainbows. They are really cool fish to watch, especially when they flash their fins


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## humdedum (Feb 18, 2009)

Once I did try some 'pH Down' solution, but it didn't work at all. I also tried some bogwood, which did indeed cloud the water but did nothing else.  

But maybe since I'm starting a tank anew, it could work. Meh. 

I always get really confused about regular-water-changes/sparse-changing advice. Some books scream at me to change the water all day long if possible, while others warn me of brimstone and heckfire if I dare touch the bucket. All the authors keep quite a few fish themselves, so I honestly have no idea what to do. 

I sort of wing it with weekly gravel vacuuming/water change.


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## baileysup (Nov 25, 2009)

humdedum said:


> I sort of wing it with weekly gravel vacuuming/water change.


that sounds like the club i'm in, LOL!


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## egoreise (Mar 16, 2011)

I do about 20% water change and a gravel vacuum on all of my tanks once per week. 


I don't know about the pH level.. and I think I would go with storebought water, too. But for the fish... I would check out tiger endlers!


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

it would be easiest to go with what works with your water. First though, You need to ditch the test strips, since they are complete crap. A liquid API master test kit is the most common one in the hobby. It includes a normal pH tests and a high range pH test, up to 8.8. 

pH down, pH up, and pH 7.0 should all be avoided. If you insist on using them though, just add acid or baking soda to your tank since its the same thing =/ There is always a buffer....

Using the sink water is really no different then the main water. Water softeners remove magnisum and calcium from the water and add salt. As far as the fishes care the water did not change in TDS. You also must consider the salt always being present and avoid any salt intolerable fish.


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## humdedum (Feb 18, 2009)

Mikaila31 said:


> it would be easiest to go with what works with your water. First though, You need to ditch the test strips, since they are complete crap. A liquid API master test kit is the most common one in the hobby. It includes a normal pH tests and a high range pH test, up to 8.8.


I figured that the pH="altering" chemicals weren't that amazing. I mean, if it's that toxic and dangerous and you know, "extremely care" should be exercised, why am I dripping it into my tank water? 

Darnit, I wish I'd read about the API kits before dumping ten dollars on more test strips yesterday. :x Oh well. I can save up more again. 

With all the potential money going into this little ten-gallon (turns out the hood DOESN'T work, the bulb broke and its metal part was stuck in the hood socket, so we had to throw it in the trash), I'm thinking that it not might be worth the investment.

I mean, a decent hood is at least $25. I already have about $120 saved up to spend on fish, so I might as well buy a second-hand 55-gallon or something. What do you think? Is it tricky to find a decent used aquarium? 

The ten could be an emergency hospital/fry/psychotherapy tank.

Sorry, I seem to be full of questions every single time I log it. Buy your advice is helping, really.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

You shouldn't of thrown the hood away. Hoods are very easy to fix. If the bulb broke and the base was stuck in the socket, it sounds like you were running an incandescent bulb. A pliers would of gotten that thing out. Just unplug the hood of course. 

Its easy to spend a lot on an aquarium. Its also easy to set them up cheap.


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## Homer (Sep 6, 2010)

Mikaila31 said:


> You shouldn't of thrown the hood away. Hoods are very easy to fix. If the bulb broke and the base was stuck in the socket, it sounds like you were running an incandescent bulb. A pliers would of gotten that thing out. Just unplug the hood of course.
> 
> Its easy to spend a lot on an aquarium. Its also easy to set them up cheap.


or you can shove a potato in and twist. You waste the potato but you get out the broke bulb


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