# Clown Loach



## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

I bought a tiny little clown loach today from my local pet store and he looked extremely healthy and i did my research before I bought him. 

But I have just read an article at a loach website and they said "one should keep them in a group so they would stay happy" and right after that mentioned that they will get up to 16 inches in length.

I just bought one and will keep it that way and he should have enough room in my 75 gallon tank but what is the best to feed him at a young age? I was personally thinking Frozen Blood Worms.

Also my LFS said they normally only see them get around 8 inches big and they will slow down growing once they reach around 5 inches is that true? 

How long do you think it will take for him to get HUGE?

Thanks for the input


Chris


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

the term "huge" is a relative one..all depends on who you talk to.clown loaches are slow growers..they average out about 1" per year.they grow faster the first couple of years and like the article said..they will slow down..it will take at least 12 years before they reach max size if kept in the proper conditions..here is a pic of about 1/3 of my school of clowns.smallest one was a little over 4 inches;biggest was just over 6 inches..they do love to travel in groups.


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks so I will be good for a while in my 75 gallon tank I suppose. The only reason that I do not want to get more then one is I am thinking for the long haul not the short term.

I am getting a 120 gallon long tank this December and maybe then I can add a couple of more Clown Loaches but do you think for the mean time he being by himself is ok?


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## tenaj-6 (Jun 25, 2008)

i done the same as you i started with one but then i got 2 more. i found that they were much more active in a group.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Chris:

Are you sure that you did not matriculate at A&M?

That one CL is not a happy camper!

Go down to Austin and spend an hour viewing the large CL's which Amazonia has on display behind the counter.

CL's are very, very social creatures so please purchase at least two more.

At two years of age they should be approximately 6" in length and will do good in a 120G tank.

Also please note that thinking in 3D is appropriate.

The tank at Amazonia does not have a bunch of wood cave and holes which are stacked but this the way you get out of limited bottom space constraint.

TR


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

I intend to have a school of about 4 Clown Loaches when I set up my 135G in a couple months so I look forward to seeing their behavior.


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

No Im from UMHB not A&M lol

I didnt know I just didnt want to get over whelmed and get too many CL and be stuck with them. Sorry for the mix up. Ill buy two more in a couple of days


Also the size which I bought him is extremely small maybe a half and inch so he is fairly new. With the food I give him he should eat the left overs from the frozen blood worms that i place in there daily or does he need Frozen Brime Shrimp (which I already have) or other special food? Remember he is quit small

Also the 3 days since I had him he is always at one special corner of the tank the right back side and stays there alot and swims around frantically time to time is that normal?

Also let me get this straight they do not like crowded tanks with holes and caves?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Suess00 said:


> Also the 3 days since I had him he is always at one special corner of the tank the right back side and stays there alot and swims around frantically time to time is that normal?


His behavior will change when you have two more CL's in the tank.




Suess00 said:


> Also let me get this straight they do not like crowded tanks with holes and caves?


They do not like crowded tanks but they do enjoy holes and caves.

TR


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

so around two will do then right?

What kind of food would you recommend?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Suess00 said:


> so around two will do then right?
> 
> What kind of food would you recommend?


A minimum of two.

They will eat left over groceries on the bottom but are not true scavengers as are several of the barbeled catfish.

In addition to the food you normally provide to your fish; frozen brine shrimp, frozen blood worms, sinking shrimp pellets and sinking spirulina wafers are appropriate.

TR


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

I have gotten great growth out of my clowns and i think most are kept in tanks much to small for there activity level. Most of my school i have had for 5 years and i picked them up at 1-2" and they are 7-10" mark and super fat. 

I feed mine a very hardy diet of hikari pellets, prawns, tilapia, scallops, squid, loach waffers, earthworms. And i wouldn't treat them as a clean up crew mine will each put gown a prawn the size of your thumb and still go crazy for pellets.


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Clown loaches also love to eat live snails and mine has definitely kept my Ramshorn population around 30-40 versus the 60+ that is used to be.


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

i have alot of snails now went from 3 to around 12 now and i see very tiny snails that are moving around and my clown loach is only around half an inch to maybe 3/4 of an inch.

How large do the Clown Loaches have to get in order to start eating snails and also is it healthy for them to eat snails?

Also should I feed them Brime Shrimp? My eel does not eat Brime Shrimp at all unless he is starving and i have a whole packet full but I dont think my Pleco eats them either.


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

My Clown Loach is about 3 inches long and eats all of the snails that are smaller than about a marble.


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

And yes, they love brine shrimp.

Smash a snail or 2 and let him find them, doesnt take long for them to figure it out. Snails are one of their top foods in the wild.


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

ok sounds good im going to a HUGE LFS in Austin Texas and im gonna try to buy them at around one inch in size and have at least 3 of them in a tank 

Also for right now I will throw in one medium size cube of Brime Shrimp. I know my Peacock Eeel does not eat them but my Pleco, Kuhli Loaches and my 5 ghost shrimp should clean it up for him.

I am wondering why my ghost shrimp are alive still nothing has ate them or even messed with them they are cool to watch and are around 1 inch each now they grew extremely fast. Isnt that weird?


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

Ok update on this situation 

I bought two more Clown Loaches a little bit bigger then the Loner I had and yal were right.

As soon as I placed the other two into the tank all three of them are together swimming all over the place.

That is a big difference today alone I have seen my clown loach more then the entire week that I had him. 

I threw in some Red rock looking stuff the my LFS said they should go crazy over (looks like rocks from mars or Red crushed Peppers). She showed me with her big tank full of CLown loaches and Ciclids and they went crazy. Mine just ate it and spit it right back out.

They seem to love Frozen Blood worms and also the Floating Dried Bloodworms.

The Lady at the LFS said they should go crazy over Frozen or Live Brime Shrimp. So I buy some Frozen Brime Shrimp throw in there and they do nothing (there were at the other side of the tank) 

My Platys are going after the Brime Shrimp and once i hits the bottom of the tank they leave it alone and also my Eel will not eat the Brime shrimp to save his own life.

I use the restroom and the medium size cube (quit large when unfrozen) is all gone. So either my Pleco ate it or the Clown Loaches I dont know.

Any input?


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

They are new and still in a bit of shock from the change. Give them a while to get used to things and you should see a difference in their appatite.
Maybe they just don't like it frozen. Try thawing it first in a bit of tank water before you put it in the tank and see if that makes a difference.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

> My Platys are going after the Brime Shrimp and once i hits the bottom of the tank they leave it alone and also my Eel will not eat the Brime shrimp to save his own life.


my fish never eat stuff when it gets to the bottom. Tho it does seem to disappear overnight


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

Suess, per your signature, I realized you have an incompatible stocklist. Kuhli loaches will never work well with your peacock eel. Peacock eels tend to devour tankmates that will surely fit their mouths. The same thing can be said with shrimps. Even your clown loaches themselves will eventually eat your shrimps. Remember that invertebrates are the primary diet of loaches so that combination will not certainly work for the most part. Please sort your stocks out before it is too late.

Per the loaches, I would recommend keeping 5 minimum per species. Loaches are sociable by nature. You will notice a large difference in their behavior if kept in a larger group. However, unless you have plans to upgrade in the next 2-3 years, then replace your clowns with more kuhlis instead. Besides, clowns are far too feisty to be suitable tankmates for kuhlis.


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

Buggy said:


> They are new and still in a bit of shock from the change. Give them a while to get used to things and you should see a difference in their appatite.
> Maybe they just don't like it frozen. Try thawing it first in a bit of tank water before you put it in the tank and see if that makes a difference.


I wouldn't advise dropping a frozen food straight to the tank. The sudden change in temperature can have adverse effects to the fish's health. The frozen food must _always_ be thawed before use.


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

she does intend on getting a bigger tank in the near future ... although it may be too late for the shrimp if not already. they'll need a new home ASAP as once the cl's fully acclimate they will surely be dinner, or lunch ... but you get my point. I second the notion of 5 being the magic number, especially in larger tanks as I've seen cl's in the four corners of a 100+ gal tank never venture out enough to really school. throw in that 5th one and it's almost instant pandemonium. They're great fish I do lover they're splash of color and activity level they bring to a tank. Just ensure your other tank mate choices will not be stressed by their activity level


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## justintrask (Jun 29, 2008)

Lupin said:


> I wouldn't advise dropping a frozen food straight to the tank. The sudden change in temperature can have adverse effects to the fish's health. The frozen food must _always_ be thawed before use.


I argue that point. I never thaw my frozen food before I use it. Arowana eats frozen beefheart whole, my top eaters peck at the bloodworm cubes, which causes uneaten bits to fall to the bottom for the bottom dwellers.

A trick that people use in the summer time is to keep frozen water bottles in tanks to keep the temperature down. A little bit of frozen food won't hurt the fish IMO.


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

My Eel has not eaten no shrimp at all and either have the Clown Loaches in the last 2 months. Also my Eel leaves the Kuhli loaches alone and will not even come near the shrimp.

I am moving my Platys to my 20 gallon long tank in a few days and I might consider moving my Kuhlis over there also. The 20 gallon has regular gravel in the tank so it would not be suitable for my Kuhli loaches.

I have been looking for 2-3 months for more Kuhli Loaches but have not succesful at all in finding any to place into my tank with them. 

Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the input and suggestions its always good to learn something new


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Chris:

(BTW: my horns are kinda drooping here this morning!)

This is intended humor only but you are having h.... for a feller who is really trying hard at fish keeping. You appear to "peddling as hard as you can" but the chain keeps slipping on the cog.



Suess00 said:


> My Eel has not eaten no shrimp at all and either have the Clown Loaches in the last 2 months. Also my Eel leaves the Kuhli loaches alone and will not even come near the shrimp.


As I indicated I am not familiar with eels but how do you know that your Clown Loaches are not eating the brine shrimp?

Also please consider feeding some sinking algae wafers (spirulina is preferable) as well as high grade flakes such as TetraMin Tropical Flakes.


Chris:

This is beginning to seem like some sort of long term filtration or maintenance issue.

I believe that you have gone through this with me before but I cannot find the post.

What is your tank setup, filtration equipment, and maintence protocol?

TR


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

im good with filtration set up now and yeah im still trying to get it to be perfect in my tank.

The clown loaches are eating the brime shrimp but i still have all 10 of my Ghost Shrimp. I can move them into my 20 gallon with my my Platys which i am moving today.

I was told i believe by you Jones that i need 4 Clown Loaches and now is it supposed to be 5?

Joe Kool


> I second the notion of 5 being the magic number, especially in larger tanks as I've seen cl's in the four corners of a 100+ gal tank never venture out enough to really school. throw in that 5th one and it's almost instant pandemonium.



At first people say my tank set up is good and then others 2,3, 6 months down the road say it isnt. Kind of confused

Eventually im getting a 150 gallon long in a few months and the eel and clown loaches are staying 110%

Yes i need to know that i need to get more Kuhli loaches but no signs of aggression have been shown to them at all

P.S. I am a guy not a girl


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

here are some pictures of my tank set up and some of the fish inside let me know what yal think. On the Pleco picture you can see the 4-5inches of poop following him so i take it that is good.

Also you can see some of the Clown Loaches and how good they look and the overall set up of the tank. 

Do yal think the tank set up with gravel and decorations are good for the tank? Plus the water looks quit nice its been a pain keeping it that way


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Suess00 said:


> I was told i believe by you Jones that i need 4 Clown Loaches and now is it supposed to be 5?


Chris:

I understand your frustration and all of us have been through this but you just seem to having an atypically difficult experience.

When you indicated that you just had one and that it was acting squirrelly I indicated that


jones57742 said:


> His behavior will change when you have two more CL's in the tank.


You wound up with four per your post.

Please remember 


Suess00 said:


> I bought two more Clown Loaches a little bit bigger then the Loner I had and yal were right.
> As soon as I placed the other two into the tank all three of them are together swimming all over the place.
> That is a big difference today alone I have seen my clown loach more then the entire week that I had him.


I am not pointing fingers and I would appreciate your not doing so either as I have spent a ton of time preparing posts in order to try to help your here.



Suess00 said:


> At first people say my tank set up is good and then others 2,3, 6 months down the road say it isnt. Kind of confused


Chris:

I was not saying that it was not.

You are just having too much h..... for someone who is trying so hard at fish keeping in order to enjoy their fish and as such you always get back to the basic.

I am old, could not remember the contents our posts from several months, and was asking for a quick refresher course with respect to your your tank setup, filtration equipment, and current maintenance protocol?




Suess00 said:


> Do yal think the tank set up with gravel and decorations are good for the tank?


Yes. You did good!

Everyone has preferences and mine is a tank which is more planted.




Suess00 said:


> Plus the water looks quit nice its been a pain keeping it that way


Chris:

Welcome to the world of being a real fish keeper!

You have observed in many thread many of us discussing maintenance associated with various equipment and aquarium configurations and you now know the "real meaning" of these words!

Thanks
Ron Jones


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sorry Ron if i made the post out of being disrespectful towards you. All the things that you suggested and I did were true to the dot and I really appreciate that.

It starts to get really confusing when multiple people are telling you different things that go totally against one another.

There is one more thing that i need your input in though. My 20 gallon tank is infested with snails which I want gone before placing my Platys in so any suggestions?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Suess00 said:


> All the things that you suggested and I did were true to the dot and I really appreciate that.


Chris:

I appreciate your saying those words and it makes feel very good.




Suess00 said:


> It starts to get really confusing when multiple people are telling you different things that go totally against one another.


I understand that one and I believe that your frustration comes from two sources:

*First*

When you first started asking questions some posts in your threads were by members who I term "Internet Parrots" in that they read a couple of posts or articles and parrot the aberrant information contained therein without the benefit of experience or real due diligence research.

Most of these folks were what I term as "Kiddies" and the Forum administration has removed them (I have no way of knowing but I am fairly certain subsequent to several warnings) from the Forum.

*Second*

Fish keeping is actually more of an art more than a science*.

Every experienced fish keeper has opinions with respect to certain topics and attempt to relate that knowledge to you although the opinions may vary widely (and please note that I have intentionally exemplified this assertion in the following monologue).




Suess00 said:


> There is one more thing that i need your input in though. My 20 gallon tank is infested with snails which I want gone before placing my Platys in so any suggestions?


When I had to deal with this I hunted up the prettiest Loaches which were easily available and which were Yoyo's.

Please note that the snail and snail egg sack density on the walls of the tank was of such magnitude that viewing the fish and plants was difficult. Also please note that the plants were approximately 75% covered in snails as were the rocks and wood.

I placed five very, very small Yoyo's in my tank and before too long I had five 2" Yoyo's and no observable snails (please note that small snails are still in the tank and are propagating but are not observable).

Many folks say "do not use fish to cure a problem" but IMHO if I enjoy Yoyo's but do not enjoy snails this was a "no brainer". (Btw now that I also have Polka Dot's and Striata's I grow snails in a tea pitcher as treats for my loaches.)

Many folks will also "Do not overfeed and the snails will go away" but h.... I enjoy fish keeping when my fish are slightly over fed (they grow fairly quickly and have very vibrant colors due to my home made mixtures) and this problem is what MTS's and Loaches are for (in addition to tons of mechanical and biological filtration capacity).

What these folks are saying is true though. These snails are propagating exponentially due to excess nutrients in your 20G. You cut out their food supply and they will substantially go away.


*I only see two ways out of this one and one is problematic.*

*First*

I believe that you only have 3 Platys currently in your tank.

Only feed the Platys a minimum quantity of food for three weeks, do your 25% weekly WC's but with a Python in order that you can clean the bottom and the snails will substantially go away. (During this period you can continue adding 3 Platys/Week).


*Second*

I have been able to help you some with your Clowns and Kuhlis due to fairly exhaustive research when I was considering purchasing them instead of the loaches which I purchased.

I do not remember your publishing the footprint of your 20G but hopefully it is a 20G long.

Also hopefully you can find some decorative rocks with caves and holes in Temple or Killeen.

I believe that you can place your four clowns along with the rocks (I believe that your Clowns are like 3/4" and that your 20G is planted) in the tank and in about four weeks you will have four 1.5" clowns and no visible snails.

In the meantime you can decide if any small loaches you enjoy will enjoy your 20G and your Platys or if you want to go to minimal feeding.

If you find some small loaches which you like you might consider calling Amazonia and asking Matt to put them on his order list (as you have seen they order in large quantities and will not charge you but a small percent for their shipping costs).

TR


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks Ron for the great information. I dont know the exact layout of the tank but I will attach a picture to this post for you to see.

Right now I have 0 Platys in my 20 gallon tank due to the snail problem and I didnt know what to do so I held off in adding any fish to it.

I am doing some research on YoYo's right now and I have to tell you that I only have the normal gravel on the bottom of the tank not the smooth rocks as I do in my big tank. 

I have not seen YoYo's yet and will call Matt to let him know to order me some if I decide in getting them.

Also in my 20 gallon tank I have not once since the tank has been established placed any kind of food inside the tank at all. Also I have attached a picture of the snails. The snails inside the tank are very fast on the glass and float all over the tank going where they please kind of weird lol


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Suess00 said:


> Right now I have 0 Platys in my 20 gallon tank due to the snail problem and I didnt know what to do so I held off in adding any fish to it.


Chris:

You can go ahead and start adding your Platys as we discussed*.




Suess00 said:


> I am doing some research on YoYo's right nowI ...
> have not seen YoYo's yet and will call Matt to let him know to order me some if I decide in getting them.


I said something wrong: I was using the Yoyo's only as an example from my experience.

Please do not purchase them.

They will be way too large for your 20G, way too large and boisterous for your 75G and too boisterous for your clowns in your future 125/150G.




Suess00 said:


> and I have to tell you that I only have the normal gravel on the bottom of the tank not the smooth rocks as I do in my big tank.


Should not be a problem for what I have proposed. (I have 3/8" to 1/2" very angular aggregate on the surface of the substrate and have not had a problem with my Yoyo's, Polka Dot's or Striata's.)

I believe that you are dropping back into the behavior of Kuhli's.




Suess00 said:


> Also in my 20 gallon tank I have not once since the tank has been established placed any kind of food inside the tank at all. Also I have attached a picture of the snails. The snails inside the tank are very fast on the glass and float all over the tank going where they please kind of weird lol


Chris: ROFLMAO

You do not know what an infestation is (please reread my previous post for a definition)!!!

What you have is my definition of a very minor annoyance.

The snails were a gift which arrived on some of your plants and there is still a food source on these plants (I saw one snail egg sack on the front glass in one of your photographs)

*Go ahead and move your four Clown's to the 20G and start feeding them.

In two weeks start moving your Platys to your 20G.

In about four weeks (or less) you will not be able to observe any snails (although some will still be present).

You will need to remove your Clowns in a couple of months and please reread my previous post on the long term solutions for dealing with these snails.

TR


Chris:

Where I was coming from with the rocks with caves and holes (and driftwood will do just as well or better) is as you seem to enjoy Loaches as much as I bottom space will always be a stocking constraint unless you get to thinking in 3D.

I do not know about Kuhlis but other Loaches will occupy holes and caves up to middepth in the tank (I have observed four Striatas sleeping with each other in a wood hole middepth in my tank).


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

Ok I will start adding Platys today. 

Also the 20 gallon tank will be able to hold 4 Clown Loaches? I thought that was way to small for those kind of fish or am i wrong?

I feel a little weird moving those Clown loaches and I really wanted to buy 3-4 more Clown Loaches. I enjoy them very much and just seeing their behavior and swimming together is very pleasing to see.

So my plan was to place 3-4 new Clown Loaches into my 20 gallon tank. The Clown Loaches will be pretty small (smaller then 1 inch, closer to 1/2 and inch) Once they get a little bit bigger I was going to plan to move them into my 75 gallon tank with the other 4 Clown Loaches will increase their population and their confidence.

The question remains will 7-8 Clown Loaches be happy in my 75 gallon tank with 3 Kuhli Loaches, 1 Eel and 1 Pleco? Or do I have to upgrade ASAP. It will be 2-3 months now before I will get my 120-150 gallon long tank (somethings poped up  ). 

What would you recommend Ron for the new tank a long tall or any other size? I was considering a long for swim room seeing that they are bottom dwellers


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Suess00 said:


> Also the 20 gallon tank will be able to hold 4 Clown Loaches? I thought that was way to small for those kind of fish or am i wrong?
> 
> I feel a little weird moving those Clown loaches and I really wanted to buy 3-4 more Clown Loaches. I enjoy them very much and just seeing their behavior and swimming together is very pleasing to see.
> 
> ...


Chris:

You have seen the Clown display tank behind the counter at Amazonia (as well as the behavior of your four clowns) and are really "pumped up here" (h... I was really pumped up also when I first saw that tank).

IMHO purchasing three or four more Clowns now will only cause you grief of some kind down the road*. 

What I was proposing was moving your four clowns to the 20G for a month or so to rid the tank of observable snails and then moving them back to your 75G.

During this month you can

[1] complete moving your Platys to your 20G and work out your feeding protocol;

[2] if you want to find some small loaches** to go in your 20G with your platys; and

[3] find some nice decorative rocks or driftwood with holes and caves to go in both of your tanks (you do not seem to "hot to trot" on this idea but they are aesthetic, you enjoy loaches and your loaches will "love you for it")




Suess00 said:


> What would you recommend Ron for the new tank a long tall or any other size? I was considering a long for swim room seeing that they are bottom dwellers


Chris:

You are not in a bind with respect to (wrt) tank volume and you are in a very enviable position being near Austin with craigslist available.

During my sojourns to Austin during football season I did not make a purchase as I did not want to just because I wanted but did not really need the equipment even at $0.10 on the $1.00 and it would have wound up in the garage or the shop whereas someone else might could actually use it.

As you are anticipating getting over 100G you will be looking for a drilled wet/dry with a sump which has a minimum volume of 35% of the tank volume but at $0.10 on the $1.00 we can work through some minor problems.

Please post links as you find them in order that the Forum members can comment.

But the first thing here which you should decide is where you want the large tank to be situated in your house and measure the area.

Other considerations include the ultimate water surface elevations in all of your tanks. (Would it not be nice to do 80% daily or bi-daily WC's [or whatever is convenient with your job] of your 20G and 20% of your 75G from your main tank via siphoning in 10 minutes??? and have your main tank automatically refill from an RO/DI??? or even with tap water.)

Also the proximity to an outside faucet, kitchen sink, window, etc (this may seem overwhelming but it is not and a little planning now will save you tons of grief down the road).

TR

*I know what you are thinking: get them started growing now and when I get a really big tank I will just be that much further ahead on their growth: just too much can go wrong!
Also, IMHO, you going way to fast. As an example I had no idea that I would ever get into bottom dwellers including loaches but fortunately when I discovered that I enjoyed them I had plenty of available tank space in order to accommodate them.


**Maybe some other Forum members can help here as I cannot.


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