# Book knowledge vs experience knowledge..........



## BabyGirl77

I wanted to get opinions from you all about fish knowledge. What do you think is the better to have: book knowledge, experience knowledge or both in fishkeeping?

For me, I think having both is best because you can look back on your experience and reading of fishkeeping and really help someone who is having the same problem as you did before and you can reference what you are talking about from the book(s) you have read.

So, what do you think is the better to have: book knowledge, experience knowledge, or both in fishkeeping?


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## Mugwump

While book knowledge is helpful, I believe experience trumps it by far....book knowledge is very generic, and yes, may be a good starting point, but not everyone has the same water and conditions....the experienced fish keeper has found out *what works for him*... if everyone went by the book, we'd all be in sorry shape.....it's all about the trip and how you arrive...

so likely both would be suggested by me...the book to show what you're in for...and then say to find a seasoned hobbyist as a mentor along the way to learning what's best for you.. ...


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## WildForFish

I believe information you glean from books gives you a starting place in fish keeping.

Nothing is better than hands on experience or the experience of others.

Just my opinon.


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## WildForFish

Totally agree with Mugwump, advice with experience goes a long way as there are so many variables within the hobby.


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## lohachata

well said Mug...i believe that hands on experience to be more critical than reading books.but books are also a very important to the process of learning..to become an "expert" i would say that one spend several decades of intense fishkeeping with having maintained at least 100 different species for extended periods.and having successfully bred most of the kept species.and a B.S. degree in the field wouldn't hurt either..


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## BabyGirl77

Very well put Mugwump.

@lohachata: why does breeding different fish have to be a part of becoming an expert in fishkeeping? Can a person skip the breeding part and still be able to be an expert in fishkeeping? 

Yes book knowledge and experience knowledge are both very important, without the book knowledge a person cannot really understand what is going on with their aquarium(s) or their fish. Book knowledge gives you knowledge in identifying diseases correctly, also knowledge about the nitrogen cycle, and knowledge in identifying the fish species, because a lot of pet stores mislabel fish, putting the wrong scientific name to the fish. Experience knowledge gives you knowledge about what will and won't work for fishkeeping, because many times you have to do trial and error.


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## lohachata

Absolutely not !!!!!!!


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## lohachata

"Yes book knowledge and experience knowledge are both very important, without the book knowledge a person cannot really understand what is going on with their aquarium(s) or their fish. Book knowledge gives you knowledge in identifying diseases correctly, also knowledge about the nitrogen cycle, and knowledge in identifying the fish species, because a lot of pet stores mislabel fish, putting the wrong scientific name to the fish. Experience knowledge gives you knowledge about what will and won't work for fishkeeping, because many times you have to do trial and error."
__________________



i wonder how folks learned about fish before the books were published...


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## BabyGirl77

When was the first tropical fish book ever published?


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## lohachata

you have that info at your fingertips....google it..


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## BabyGirl77

I did, but it says like 1992, I know that cannot be right at all.

Oh btw: google doesn't have all the answers and not all the info on Google is accurate.


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## Mugwump

BabyGirl77 said:


> I did, but it says like 1992, I know that cannot be right at all.
> 
> Oh btw: google doesn't have all the answers and not all the info on Google is accurate.


https://www.google.com/search?q=year+of+the+First+Aquarium+book+on+fish+published&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/Articles/The_Book_And_Magazine_History_Of_The_North_American_Hobby.html


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## lohachata

i would certainly believe that books about fish have been around for at least 400-500 years.this is a very old hobby.The Cleveland Aquarium Society is considered one of the oldest clubs in the U.S..we have been researching it for quite some time and have absolute proof of it being around in the early 1920s , and there have been some references about an article in one of the cleveland newspapers from the 1880s.....so the books were around long before the clubs started forming..

but people were fascinated with fish long before books were around.people learned about fish by keeping them and studying them and finding what it took to keep them alive and how they hunted for food and shelter.people would often block off streams and observe the fish trapped in the blocked area.
but think of it this way as well.......i have read several books about performing surgeries and i am now going to perform brain surgery on your child...what do you say to that...
i am not a rocket scientist , but i stayed at a holiday inn last night...
you see ; nothing can replace actual hands on experience...
i have been reading and referencing the Innes book along with a bunch of others for over 40 years and still do ; but i cannot remember everything that i have read.and i still do not believe that i am nowhere near being any kind of an expert...people work hard to learn how to be better fishkeepers and to further the hobby ; not just for the purpose of telling folks what they can and cannot do....


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## BabyGirl77

Mugwump said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=year+of+the+First+Aquarium+book+on+fish+published&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
> 
> http://http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/Articles/The_Book_And_Magazine_History_Of_The_North_American_Hobby.html


Thank you Mugwump for the links.


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## BabyGirl77

lohachata said:


> i would certainly believe that books about fish have been around for at least 400-500 years.this is a very old hobby.The Cleveland Aquarium Society is considered one of the oldest clubs in the U.S..we have been researching it for quite some time and have absolute proof of it being around in the early 1920s , and there have been some references about an article in one of the cleveland newspapers from the 1880s.....so the books were around long before the clubs started forming..
> 
> but people were fascinated with fish long before books were around.people learned about fish by keeping them and studying them and finding what it took to keep them alive and how they hunted for food and shelter.people would often block off streams and observe the fish trapped in the blocked area.
> but think of it this way as well.......i have read several books about performing surgeries and i am now going to perform brain surgery on your child...what do you say to that...
> i am not a rocket scientist , but i stayed at a holiday inn last night...
> you see ; nothing can replace actual hands on experience...
> i have been reading and referencing the Innes book along with a bunch of others for over 40 years and still do ; but i cannot remember everything that i have read.and i still do not believe that i am nowhere near being any kind of an expert...people work hard to learn how to be better fishkeepers and to further the hobby ; not just for the purpose of telling folks what they can and cannot do....


I certainly understand that book and experience knowledge go together, and I certainly am going to have both. I still have a long ways to go before I can even consider myself an expert. I am not sure about trying my hand at breeding different fish. 

I have only seen one time you, lohachata, have referenced the books you have read. 

That is what I want is to better myself in fishkeeping with having the book and experience knowledge together, and be able to help those in need of rightful advice. I have grown tired of guessing at things. I rather be right most, if not all the time when helping someone with their questions.


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## WildForFish

BabyGirl77 said:


> I rather be right most, if not all the time when helping someone with their questions.



It is not about being right.....all the time

It is about being able to offer advice based on your experience and asking the right questions to narrow down the problem.

Due to the many variables, there is not always just one way to deal with a given situation. 

When reading advice given by multiple members, there will be slight differences due to the experience, variables and what has worked for them. Within reason the answers are not wrong, just different. One of the great reasons being involved with a forum, group, society, ect, is the vast knowledge of members willing to share their experiences.

In the end, through questions, conversation, solutions offered,
we are able to help fellow hobbyist.


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## BabyGirl77

WildForFish said:


> It is not about being right.....all the time
> 
> It is about being able to offer advice based on your experience and asking the right questions to narrow down the problem.
> 
> Due to the many variables, there is not always just one way to deal with a given situation.
> 
> When reading advice given by multiple members, there will be slight differences due to the experience, variables and what has worked for them. Within reason the answers are not wrong, just different. One of the great reasons being involved with a forum, group, society, ect, is the vast knowledge of members willing to share their experiences.
> 
> In the end, through questions, conversation, solutions offered,
> we are able to help fellow hobbyist.


I totally agree with you WildForFish!


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## BV77

Well stated WFF


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## Mugwump

WildForFish said:


> It is not about being right.....all the time
> 
> It is about being able to offer advice based on your experience and asking the right questions to narrow down the problem.
> 
> Due to the many variables, there is not always just one way to deal with a given situation.
> 
> When reading advice given by multiple members, there will be slight differences due to the experience, variables and what has worked for them. Within reason the answers are not wrong, just different. One of the great reasons being involved with a forum, group, society, ect, is the vast knowledge of members willing to share their experiences.
> 
> In the end, through questions, conversation, solutions offered,
> we are able to help fellow hobbyist.


+1....Bingo ! ...exactly.....the pool of knowledge is 'priceless'...


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## TheOldSalt

I have some fish books in my collection written in 1856, written by a guy named Phillip Henry Gosse. That's the oldest I can find.
( heh... I also have an old natural history book so old that it's mention of Dodo birds goes into detail about how tasty they are and how 4 of them can feed 100 men, but makes no mention of them being extinct or even endangered... VERY old book.)

Oddly enough, the saltwater hobby is older than the fresh side, and has the first books, except for the Chinese with their Goldfish and the Romans with their eels. The Romans kept eels not as pets, but as food, and they kept them alive and fresh in big vats. 

The modern hobby started in England in the 1850's, when people started keeping saltwater tanks stocked with critters they caught at the seashore. The tanks of the time were pretty much just very fancy, very expensive deathtraps, but eventually they switched to freshwater fish which survived better, and things started to take off from there. Many decades later a lady would invent the modern aquarium and change everything.


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## guppyart

I agree with WFF . 
And to go deeper on some stuff like those variables you have to remember everyones water conditions are different. Tank temperature. Additives. tank mates this is why we all ask these kinds of questions when someone posts a problem. Because with years of experience we have often had many of these things happen to us at different times with different conditions.
Most of us have kept many many species over the years and many different tanks and sizes at any given time. 


For myself I fully agree with loha that if you haven't bred a species you are keeping you truly aren't an expert on that species. I can keep a fish alive a long long time but its a whole different thing to make them comfortable enough to trick them into breeding via simulating natural conditions.

Look at all the fish we are just Now learning to finally breed that we have been keeping for decades without a clue honestly.

So thats something to think about it when reading books they can help but they aren't always accurate to your situation.
Much like i can read about how to fly a helicopter or perform a brain surgery. but if you make me do one of those things I will crash and burn in the heli and destroy a brain because I have no practical experience.
Books are great but experience will always trump them in the end. combined they are deadly.


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## BV77

Great to see you are still here, Nate.


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## TheOldSalt

I'll add another +1 to the need to breed. Breeding requires not only having a lot of knowledge, but applying it correctly. However, it not only results from expertise, it gives you more expertise. By breeding fish and raising the fry, you'll learn stuff about similar fish species. Sometimes you can use that knowledge to breed new fish that you can't find much about in books.

I myself have done that, for example. I've bred hundreds of species, maybe around 300. 400? I lost count. Anyway, while that's pretty cool, I guess, in most of those cases all I had to do was look up those species in books, study them, and breed them. No real accomplishment, but I certainly learned a ton of stuff while doing it. 
However, I am especially proud of the time I figured out how to breed the Bluenose Shiner, a fish which had confounded aquarists for decades. There wasn't anywhere I could just look up how to do it, because up until then nobody knew. However, I remembered a few quirky little things I learned from breeding other shiners, and I applied those things in a mixed up way that no one else had ever tried. It worked. Now people breed this fish all over the world using my method. That never would have happened if I hadn't bred other species and picked up odd bits of knowledge from them in the process.

So, yeah.. you can learn a lot from books, but that only goes so far. Keeping fish will teach you more. However, breeding them forces you to really concentrate, study, and pay attention to what you're doing and why, and that makes you learn.


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## guppyart

You know it bob. not keeping anything at the moment due to space issues at my current residence. But the second space opens up a tank will pop up again haha.

And +1 on TOS a man filled with great knowledge.


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## WildForFish

TheOldSalt said:


> ... you can learn a lot from books, but that only goes so far. Keeping fish will teach you more. However, breeding them forces you to really concentrate, study, and pay attention to what you're doing and why, and that makes you learn.


Thank You TOS!

Each of these steps takes time and dedication.

Dedication is the key word.


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## lohachata

who let the naked Canadian Wookie in the house again......lol
Hi Nate.great to have you back.


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