# Eclipse System 12 Aquarium



## chandyy315 (Dec 26, 2006)

i have the Eclipse System 12 Aquarium, and i've heard that it's not very good, because of the light/filtration system being within the lid cover. did i make a bad choice? i'm pretty new to the fish thing, and i dont really want something that makes it harder to keep fish in  

also, couple more questions;;

1. what kinds of tropical fish would be good in a 12 gallon tank, especially the eclipse kind?

2. i did all the stuff it said on the package that came with the aquarium, (put water & de-chlorinator in, let cycle for at least 24 hours) is that all i need to do??

help would be much appreciated. thanks!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Its fine, just limits what you can do as far as live plants unless you get a retrofit kit. As with any smaller tank, you're somewhat limited on types of fish, too. Other than that, it can do quite nicely.

What you did is not cycling. I would recommend using Google to get information on cycling, which is the process of building up the correct types of bacteria needed to process the fish's waste so that it doesn't kill them. Specifically, I'd recommend reading up on fishless cycling, as its much more humane.


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## chandyy315 (Dec 26, 2006)

thanks so much! i'll go read up on it.


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## chandyy315 (Dec 26, 2006)

oh whoops, quick question. 

do i have to do cycling?


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

You don't have to do it if you don't want your fish to live. Your choice.

Ok so that was rather mean. You really do need to cycle. If your tank isn't cycled, you will just have problems more likely than not. Your fish will likely die because of high ammonia and nitrites if you don't cycle.


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## locojay (May 22, 2006)

Don't be discouraged by the thought of fishless cycling. I've tried it both ways and IMO fishless cycling is alot less stressfull on the fish and the fishkeeper. Believe me trying to keep your fish alive while your tank develops the needed bacteria is much more stressing.


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## dolifisis (Sep 27, 2006)

The Eclipse12 is a nice system for the beginner. The lighting is fine unless you plan on going the live plant route. I ended up getting a retrofit kit and the plants are doing quite nicely. I also did a fishless cycle with it and it took approximately 3 weeks before I could add fish. I highly recommend it because I'm pretty much a beginner too and have never lost a fish or had any illness, parasites, etc. Okay, not counting Sluggy the snail because I didn't know he required plenty of calcuim . Now I know for when I add the next one.


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

............


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

As far as what fish you can have, browse through the forum for recommendations for a 10 gallon tank. I like the way the eclipse looks, but on my smaller ones - 6 gallon and a 2 or three gallon one, I don't like the fact that to change water, net a fish or anything else I have to take the whole top off. Other than that they are as good as tank as any other that is the same size.

"I did all the stuff it said on the package that came with the aquarium, (put water & de-chlorinator in, let cycle for at least 24 hours) is that all i need to do"

This is a good thing - it allows you to make sure the water temperature is stable, that little bubbles from the tap water have been dispersed, etc. Unfortunately it is not cycling. Cycling involves the process of getting good bacteria into the tank. As fish produce wastes, the bacteria change it from harmful things such as ammonia and nitrite, into less harmful nitrate. But it takes some time for the bacteria to grow and multiply to keep up with the amount of waste produced. 

Any new tank has to go through this process, and even in an established tank, if you add a bunch of new fish all at once, the bacteria will take some time to keep up with the new tank load. 

This process will happen naturally in a tank with fish in it, but it does take some time, and while it's happening, the fish in the tank have to live in the ammonia and nitrite which is harmful to them, and may kill them. When people recommend the fishless cycle, they mean that you add some ammonia to the tank, let the bacteria get established, then add fish once the cycle is well-established. This is much easier on the fish, and they are more likely to survive. It is hard to make youself wait to put fish in a brand new tank though, when you are excited about getting it all set up! ;-)

I really enjoy fishkeeping and hope that you will as well.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

they are great for beginners. Congrats on the start of hopefully a long dedicated life of being a servant to your fish  and yes as mentioned you need to cycle  I use feeder fish to cycle. I buy a dozen from the fish store for a buck and then return them when I'm finished. I don't feel guilty as they will become food in a few weeks to a happy oscar or whatever they are fed to. Fishless is a bit trickier. My advice, buy some feeder guppies and cycle your tank, then bring em back when your done. 
cheers.

Zig


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## dolifisis (Sep 27, 2006)

girth vader said:


> they are great for beginners. Congrats on the start of hopefully a long dedicated life of being a servant to your fish  and yes as mentioned you need to cycle  I use feeder fish to cycle. I buy a dozen from the fish store for a buck and then return them when I'm finished. I don't feel guilty as they will become food in a few weeks to a happy oscar or whatever they are fed to. Fishless is a bit trickier. My advice, buy some feeder guppies and cycle your tank, then bring em back when your done.
> cheers.
> 
> Zig


Why is fishless trickier? There are no trips to the fish store for buying and returning fish, no wasting time and money on feedings, no water changes, etc.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Yeah, its a whole lot trickier. Throw a piece of grocery store shrimp into the tank. Its really tricky to do it right and not endanger lives or torture fish.  IMO, just because the feeders that you use are going to be eaten, Girth, doesn't justify torturing them beforehand or treating them with any less respect than you would a "centerpiece" fish that you were planning on keeping.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

adding dry NH3/4, testing a few times daily, backing off NH3/4 gradually to get your balance is a heck of a lot trickier then driving a few minutes and grabbing feeders. And no, I do not respect feeders as much as center piece fish, which is why ppl feed their fish feeders and not centre piece fish to oscars, puffers, arrowanas ect.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Puffer Pita said:


> Throw a piece of grocery store shrimp into the tank. Its really tricky to do it right and not endanger lives or torture fish.


what about the torture the store shrimp went through to find its way into your tank........cmon really. most of us eat shrimp, tuna, and other sea dwelling animals and nobody seems to have a problem with that. However put a dozen feeders in a tank and bleeding heart left wingers all come out to protest. If you're going to fight for the feeders, then you better fight for the shrimp as well, or else it's hypocracy in it's truest form.

next...........


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

girth vader said:


> adding dry NH3/4, testing a few times daily, backing off NH3/4 gradually to get your balance is a heck of a lot trickier then driving a few minutes and grabbing feeders. And no, I do not respect feeders as much as center piece fish, which is why ppl feed their fish feeders and not centre piece fish to oscars, puffers, arrowanas ect.


I have never heard of anyone doing a fishless cycle as you describe. Never. And many of us who do use feeder fish respect those fish, treat them well while they are alive, and make sure they aren't tortured when they are used as food. Many of us respect ALL lives in our care, not just those we deem to be worthy.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Puffer Pita said:


> I have never heard of anyone doing a fishless cycle as you describe. Never.


 so because you have never heard of it means what exactly.........

Check no further then some threads in here to read up on it. and just in case you don't feel like looking from within your own forum........ it's the first sticky in this column right above this post. Do you even read the threads on here?

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/beginner-freshwater/5756-fishless-cycle-question.html

http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm

I could be here all night copying and pasting............


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Puffer Pita said:


> Throw a piece of grocery store shrimp into the tank.


with that method you will have no idea what your bioload capacity is and you may still lose fish. With a true fishless cycle method using dry NH3/4 you know that when you are done you will not be able to overload the system when you introduce fish whether its 3 or 30. By using feeder fish you can gage what your bioload is as well. If you have 12 feeder goldfish then you will be able to introduce that same amount of fish that are the same size. No guessing involved in either cycle method.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

You obviously haven't actually read any of those articles. Other than Badmanstropicalfish.com, which I don't follow for much of anything, NONE of the others says anything at all about using dry NH3/4. When you use ammonia, its liquid household ammonia available from grocery stores. Its added once a day. Testing is done once a day, and that isn't even necessary for the first week or two, but no one I know of tests a few times a day. To characterize fishless cycling as you have shows how ridiculous your whole argument against fishless cycling is. Aside from the fact that there are much easier ways of fishless cycling than adding a few drops of ammonia every day.

Feel free to continue cutting and pasting if you find any links that actually advocate using "dry NH3/4, testing a few times daily..."


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

girth vader said:


> with that method you will have no idea what your bioload capacity is and you may still lose fish.


Not if you have half a brain and know what you are doing. Not only do I and many others do it this way, with never a mini-cycle or lost fish, we teach it to others who are completely clueless, but have a willingness to learn responsible fishkeeping, all the time.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Puffer Pita said:


> You obviously haven't actually read any of those articles. Other than Badmanstropicalfish.com, which I don't follow for much of anything, NONE of the others says anything at all about using dry NH3/4. When you use ammonia, its liquid household ammonia available from grocery stores. Its added once a day. Testing is done once a day, and that isn't even necessary for the first week or two, but no one I know of tests a few times a day. To characterize fishless cycling as you have shows how ridiculous your whole argument against fishless cycling is. Aside from the fact that there are much easier ways of fishless cycling than adding a few drops of ammonia every day.
> 
> Feel free to continue cutting and pasting if you find any links that actually advocate using "dry NH3/4, testing a few times daily..."


dry ammonia turns into liquid when combined with water.................... anyhow your splitting hairs to try and prove a useless point. enough with hijacking this thread. It's purpose wasn't for me to expose your ignorance, but to provide information on her 12g eclipse and options on cycling it


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Puffer Pita said:


> Not if you have half a brain and know what you are doing. Not only do I and many others do it this way, with never a mini-cycle or lost fish, we teach it to others who are completely clueless, but have a willingness to learn responsible fishkeeping, all the time.


Ahhhh I see LOL. I'm not going to take this any further as I promised I wouldn't


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