# Another one dying!! why?



## Human_84 (Mar 12, 2009)

Whats happening: My second african cichlid fish is dying from the same thing as the first, whatever it is! When I come home he is laying at the bottom of the tank (sometimes a little bit to one side), breathing a couple times a second. He won't swim with the rest, and won't really move unless some of the other fish push up on him or unless he gets scared from me. With the first one, after a couple days of this he got very bloated and started going more of a white color, then the 4th day in he was dead. He will eat if food drifts close to him, but he wont go to the top with the rest. The first one was blue with black stripes, this one is orange. 

More information: I have a brand new 38gallon tall eclipse tank, all brand new floral and rocks, has had 8 of these (less than 2 inches each) living in it for about 2 weeks. KH is 240 instead of 180 where it's supposed to be, everything else is dead on, including GH and PH. Temp is 77, tank is aerated, plenty of floral. Being fed once or twice a day with either tetra flakes or cichlid pellets crumbled up, never over-fed. I already checked out this site but cannot find the same symptoms.

I circled him in the picture. His eyes aren't actually white, its just the camera flash. Any ideas what can be wrong with him?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

New tank syndrome...common mistake, don't worry!

Here's a link about it:
http://www.bestfish.com/breakin.html


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Can't disagree, those bright red gills are an ammonia poisoning indicator. FYI the blue and white ones are M. lombardoi. These fish love high kH, & pH. So don't mess with it. Stop testing pH, kH, etc. Start testing ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Consider buying a "bacteria starter" product.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

you lso need to start feeding them algae wafers or flakes.
i think that the killer is that orange thingy;whatever it is..OMG...I THINK I'M BLIND...lol..just kidding.
you might want to let your tank run in for a couple of months before you put anything in it.


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## Human_84 (Mar 12, 2009)

lohachata said:


> you lso need to start feeding them algae wafers or flakes.


Thanks for the advice, I started doing that.




emc7 said:


> Can't disagree, those bright red gills are an ammonia poisoning indicator.


Thanks for the advice, I added an ammonia eliminator.




emc7 said:


> Consider buying a "bacteria starter" product.


Thanks for the advice, I ended up doing that too.

Unfortunately guys, that orange one ended up dying a day after I did all of this. Then, his orange friend died the same day. Seemed to be that the two orange fish had a different problem than the original blue/white that died; they had different symptoms. I think the first one was a fluke but now I'm afraid to get any more orange ones!!


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Ammonia eliminator won't really help much in the long run, the tank has to go through its nitrogen cycle. 

This is what you're seeing: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/biologicalcycle/a/nitrogencycle.htm


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

38 tall isn't very wide. These aren't a good long-term fish for the tank, (the yellow ones with the black fin edge ("yellow labs") are somewhat better) because the dominant male will try to drive all the other males "out of site" which means out of the tank unless you add a lot more hiding places. The male Lombardoi will turn yellow and lose their stripes.

If the orange thing is plastic, its fine. If its real, take it out. The chased fish can get scratched on real coral. 

New fish often face a "double whammy" of poor water quality because of an uncycled tank,and new diseases that they got exposed to in store and transit. Keep an eye on water quality or just be religious about water changes. 

In general, these are really hardy fish that have a tendency to chase and chew each other as they get older.


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## Suess00 (Sep 5, 2008)

The fish have to tough it through the nitrogen cycle I agree with that. It has to happen regardless. 

The symptoms she is describing sounds a little bit like iche also because if fish get stressed they are more prone to disease and illnesses. 

The tank size is too small in the long run and you should consider upgrading the tank size as soon as possible. If you start a bigger tank right now and let it cycle it will take anywhere from 2-3 months depending on size and what chemicals or plants you place in the tank it will be established. You can move your infected bacteria filter from the tank you have now and place it in the filter of the new tank and that will speed up the process.

It will continue to happen until your tank has fully cycled. Keep up updated


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## Kurtfr0 (Nov 2, 2008)

I must say Nice Kenyi Cichlids, get kinda mean though.

and, I would trade the 38tall.. for a 38 breeder or so. 

Mine use all levels, but more floor room the better.. with tons tons tons of rock


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## Human_84 (Mar 12, 2009)

I am the original poster and here is another question....

I actually have another tank in the other room, what if i was to take say 10 gallons of water from THAT tank and put into my larger tank, would that help things? Because i'm still losing fish here..


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

That would speed things up considerably, also if you have some old filter media you could throw that into the new filter too ( I know some people take a nylon and fill the toe part with gravel from an established tank, tie it off and place that in). Should do the trick and make the transition much easier for the new fish! Good luck~


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

filter media, yes, water, no. The bacteria in it isn't very much. better to use water with 0 ammonia, nitrite, nitrate to start with.


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## Human_84 (Mar 12, 2009)

Great, I went ahead and threw in the repulsive old filter from the other tank. When I notice an improvement with the fish (when they stop sitting on the bottom motionless like a stupid toad fish) I'll pull the filter back out. Thanks once more guys.


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## Human_84 (Mar 12, 2009)

I kept the old filter in the water for about a week, then after 10 days the water cleared up and the fish were acting normal again.

NEW PROBLEM!! - I currently have just the 5, and when I add any new fish of the same size (about 1.5"), they are always dead about 2 hours later but I never get to see if they were attacked or not. I have an orange one who's pretty dominant, does he need to be removed? Its a 38 gallon so I'd like 10 of these guys, having 5 sucks.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

these fish will be too big to have 10 in a 38 gallon. I wouldn't add any if it were me.


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## Human_84 (Mar 12, 2009)

Obsidian said:


> these fish will be too big to have 10 in a 38 gallon. I wouldn't add any if it were me.


You're the first to tell me this, most everyone (5 or so people at mom and pop aquarium shops) say they'd max the tank at 12-15. 

Anyways guys, thanks to all who contributed I've currently got 10 extremely happy assorted african cichlids who have been together for a week without issues. They are beautiful and I've took just about every piece of advice given here. Thanks again I couldn't do it without you!

Will be posting pics of the whole setup soon..


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I get obs' point. But if you don't spread out the aggression, you will end up with one live fish. But leave them in that tank, and it will get very crowded in a year. Time to start watching craigslist for a cheap 75 gallon tank.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

True indeed. Africans get remarkably large in a hurry.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

one of the biggest mistakes folks make with african cichlids is that they don't put enough rockwork in the tank for the fish to hide in... take a look at their natural environment...no plants..... no driftwood... just rocks.... piles and piles of rocks..
this is a 38 gallon tank with a few small tropheus only some julidochromis transcriptis and their fry..










when i was breeding malawi cichlids i used 40 gallon longs with about 20-30 fish in each tank... the tufa rock was piled almost to the top of the tank and from end to end.. nobody ever got beat up because there was plenty of refuge and with that many fish; one can't concentrate on any one fish...


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