# Betta need help



## gillman (Aug 18, 2012)

I am getting a new Betta and i need help. i know they sell special drops for the fish that you are should put in the water. What i need to know if you really need the drops or is it a waste of money??? what items would be good for a 1 gallon bowl for the Betta.


:fish::fish::fish::fish::fish:


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

honestly, for beginner betta keepers, I say start right and get a 5 gallon tank, heater, gravel, filter, and plants. The special betta drops do the same thing as water conditioner. I don't use them. I like API stress coat personally, but it is a little pricey. Any good water conditioner should work.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2013)

Betta man said:


> honestly, for beginner betta keepers, I say start right and get a 5 gallon tank, heater, gravel, filter, and plants. The special betta drops do the same thing as water conditioner. I don't use them. I like API stress coat personally, but it is a little pricey. Any good water conditioner should work.


+1

Also make sure you cycle the 5 gallon before putting your betta in it. Have meds on hand in case your betta gets sick. Oh also, purchase an API liquid test kit so you can test the tank water each week. You will need to do water changes every week, or every day or so. If you go with a 1 gallon, you will need to do water changes every other day. But a 5 gallon, you will only need to do water changes every week.


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

I cant say without knowing more. What kind of special drops--name? brand? ingredients? You will def. need a chlorine remover unless you use dechlorinated water. As mentioned above, "stress coat" is a great product, because it helps the fish keep a healthy slime coat, and it also dechlorinates. Bettas are often sold to go in small decorative vases or bowls, because they can survive harsh conditions that other tropical fish can not. But, just because they CAN, doesn't mean they should be kept that way, and certainly they will not be healthy, nor live very long. For that reason, it is better to have a tank with heater, filter, etc., just as with any tropical fish. Once you become attached to him, you will end up getting all that stuff, anyway, because Bettas are such charismatic little guys. Before buying a Betta, get a book about them. That will save you a lot of money and stress.


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## gillman (Aug 18, 2012)

thanks guys


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2013)

Read up on bettas and their care. If you do that extensively, your betta will live a full life. I have had bettas in the past. I had two that I loved very much, a halfmoon and a doubletail. I no longer have them because they died, but they lived about 3 years. Bettas are easy to care for, since they are one of the hardiest fish around. But do read up on them and their care. Ask questions if you don't understand something.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Angelclown said:


> +1
> 
> Also make sure you cycle the 5 gallon before putting your betta in it. Have meds on hand in case your betta gets sick. Oh also, purchase an API liquid test kit so you can test the tank water each week. You will need to do water changes every week, or every day or so. If you go with a 1 gallon, you will need to do water changes every other day. But a 5 gallon, you will only need to do water changes every week.


I beg to differ.  A one gallon requires once every three days at minimum, but if you have plenty of plants and a small sponge filter, you can get away with weekly water changes. Also, in a five gal with one betta and no plants, I have gotten away with water changes every two weeks. If it has a lot of plant in it, you could get away with monthly or more.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

yeah ; but you keep killin all your bettas...


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2013)

Betta man said:


> I beg to differ.  A one gallon requires once every three days at minimum, but if you have plenty of plants and a small sponge filter, you can get away with weekly water changes. Also, in a five gal with one betta and no plants, I have gotten away with water changes every two weeks. If it has a lot of plant in it, you could get away with monthly or more.


A one gallon with a filter will require once a week water changes. So will a five gallon. Ammonia builds up and can/will cause gill burn in bettas and other fish. Weekly water changes will prevent ammonia from building up and causing problems with your betta(s). Your betta will live longer and be healthier.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Actually loha, I haven't "killed a betta" in a while. IMO, the filter does little. The plants are what help.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2013)

Actually lives plants do help, but the filter takes out the bad stuff out of the water, it removes the bad bacteria and puts good bacteria in the water.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

IMO, non carbon filters only house bacteria which gravel does too. I don't think filters remove bad bacteria. Could you post a link to a source? Carbon filters remove some ammonia as far as I know.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2013)

Carbon filters is what I am talking about. Carbon removes chemicals in the water. Here is a link to this:

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/carbon.php

I guess we are both right about carbon.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks for the link. Quite interesting....


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2013)

Yes it is. I was amazed at what it has to say about carbon.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

betta man....what "bad bacteria" are you talking about ?? 
yes ; carbon will remove chemicals and other impurities ; but only for a short period of time..although it is argued ; it is pretty much about 2-3 weeks..it then becomes saturated and no longer able to absorb any more.if left in the filter it will start to leech toxins back into ther tank after a while..
a filter will remove debris.....but it do provide a place for bacteria to build that will maintain the the levels of ammonia and nitrite....yes , the gravel in a tank will also do that.but the gravel by itself will not remove debris.thus the need for a filter...plants will help some , but are not enough to not use filtration..yes , you can keep unfiltered tanks , but one needs to be somewhat more experienced in fishkeeping.....


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Personally I can't imagine someone not recommending a filter. I mean it just doesn't even make sense not to suggest one. They are beneficial and often outright important. A plant helps with nitrates. It does not help with all of the other junk that can float around in the tank. I keeps a stable source of good bacteria so you can do gravel vacuuming without worrying about harming your biology.

Seriously dude, get a filter. 

Get a heater, they need heat as they are tropical. They make tiny ones for 1 gallon tanks that go under the gravel, the look like a little paddle. They are inexpensive. 

In a one gallon- water change every 1-3 days. In a 5 gallon water change weekly. Keep in mind that just because you "can" be lazy and get away with longer between, does not mean you "should" as your tank is more vulnerable to negative consequences (such as crashing) with less than weekly water changes in a 5 gallon. You will want to change about 10-20% weekly.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

I agree with Obsidian. Carbon filters are a must, because they do remove bad things in the tank, and they are a place for good bacteria.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i agree with obs...
there are a lot of things that one can "get away with" ; such as having 200 young common plecos in a 20 long...it all depends on how well one knows what they are doing...
but in general it is always best to make sure you do everything you can to make sure your fish thrive...know their needs and provide them..


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## fuzzi (Dec 29, 2012)

Angelclown said:


> Carbon filters is what I am talking about. Carbon removes chemicals in the water. Here is a link to this:
> 
> http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/carbon.php
> 
> I guess we are both right about carbon.


Interesting link, thank you.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I should clarify- I am not saying that the filter has to have carbon. If you are going to use carbon then change it every 3-4 weeks. You do not need carbon in most instances other than to pull out medications. I don't use carbon in my filters.

In the one gallon put in a small sponge filter. In the 5 you can go with sponge or a smaller hang on back.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Loha, I was talking about the "bad bacteria" that angelclown mentioned.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

well kid ; you are waaaay wrong...angelclown was talking about ammonia and nitrites...they are the "bad bacteria"...and filters remove them..gravel does not remove them , but houses the good bacteria that consumes them..just like the other hard surfaces in the tank..plants help some because they also provide a surface for the good bacteria to inhabit..
as i have been trying to tell folks all along...;carbon is not really needed all the time..mainly just for removing chemicals , impurities and staining...it is functional for only a short period of time...and later on it will leech toxins back into the tank...
why do manufacturers recommend carbon ? because it is more revenue for them.....
and that is why they tell you to change the filter cartridge every 2 weeks...


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Betta man said:


> IMO, non carbon filters only house bacteria which gravel does too. I don't think filters remove bad bacteria. Could you post a link to a source? Carbon filters remove some ammonia as far as I know.



Perhaps a refresher course of the nitrogen cycle in regards to a NON-carbon filter. :wink:

http://www.firsttankguide.net/filters.php


http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information
/CycleAquarium.php



http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/nitrogen_cycle.html


Long reads ,

but well worth it for a complete understanding of not only the function of the filter but the IMPORTANCE of its use in most cases.


WFF


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Actually, I hate to break it to ya guys, BUT, ammonia is not bacteria. Sorry to pop yer bubble. I do agree that carbon should not be used all the time on tanks though.


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Betta man,

Did you read the links posted above?

While ammonia is not a "bacteria" it is referred to as such by some.
Really no need for _attempted _"wiseacre" remark.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2013)

I have read the first link and the last link, and they are both very informative.

Betta man: I suggest reading those links.


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## Chard56 (Oct 10, 2010)

Why would you not correct someone for using the word bacteria for ammonia? They are not the same and should not be used as such. The nitrogen cycle and other aspects of aqurium keeping are hard enough to understand without confusing the terms.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

+1. Also, for someone who likes to call bacteria bacteria and toxins toxins, that is quite confusing.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Also, my wiseacre remark comes after months of frustration with you and loha...... I interpreted your review wrong and saw it as an insult. I apologize.


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## Chard56 (Oct 10, 2010)

You guys' wisecracks, jocularity and especially the left handed compliments are what makes me want to come back to see what's next.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2013)

Ammonia can and will kill fish. I found something interesting in the one link. That carbon doesn't get rid of ammonia. I know that ammonia is not bacteria. I should have clarified what I was talking about.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2013)

Chard56 said:


> You guys' wisecracks, jocularity and especially the left handed compliments are what makes me want to come back to see what's next.


You should have seen lohachata and Betta man going at it one time. It was hilarious. I try to stay neutral, but when Betta man says something that actually is sound, I defend him. Lohachata can be right also. But I do try to stay neutral when those two go at it, because I rather not offend anyone. Sometimes Betta man and I go at it, but it is when we have different experiences with bettas.

Betta man: I have noticed that when you say "IME........." lohachata leaves you alone and doesn't tease or say that you are wrong.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Ammonia is not a bacteria. I believe the confusion comes in that it plays an important role in the nitrification process, which is a bacteria build up process. 

If someone had ever told you that carbon or any "filter" can remove ammonia they were mistaken. 

There are inserts you can put into a filter that claim to absorb it, emphasis on the word claim. There are other products that are said to make it so that it is not toxic. It is important to note that they do not suggest that they get rid of it, just neutralize it.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

IME, that's not true.


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

Ammonia is certainly not a bacteria, although certain kinds of bacteria can "eat" ammonia and make less harmful to our fish. And Carbon certainly does not remove ammonia, but Obsidian, what about the white ammo chips sold in boxes to put in filters? I have used that for years and have never had any ammonia problems while using it. Was I just lucky, or did the ammo chips have something to do with it?( I am truly convinced the ammo chips help keep ammonia down)
[geeky scientific factoid: there are also bacteria that eat sulfur, which is cool because there is a high probability of it being the first life form we find on other planets]


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

let me "try" to clarify myself here...i am not a scientist ; just a hobbyist...within the hobby when people talk about the nitrification process and how it works they use terms that are not exactly accurate...i am well aware of the fact that ammonia is not a bacteria..but in the cycle process people use the terms "bad" and "good" or "beneficial" bacteria..normally these terms are used for idiots like me to explain the process in simple terms..not for brilliant masterminds.
i am not sure that any product really removes ammonia..but many products such as ammo chips will neutralize it.
like i tell folks...although i have had fish for a while , i am still kind of a rookie in this hobby..there are millions of things i have not learned...and i am always learning new things..of course my biggest problem is that my ADD and old age have joined together causing me to not remember everything...
oh.....and generally within the hobby , the term " toxins" are used for almost any kind of substance that may possibly poison the animals in some way...

an automobile is not a "whip,buggy,coach,rod,jalopy,heap" or any of the other 500 monikers we have given them....they are automobiles..or possibly even motor vehicles...

i try to be honest and forthright with people...i don't try to deceive them..i do not promote myself as something that i am not...i do not claim success at something that i have had no success with.
i am not the final word to everyones questions..i am just a hobbyist with a little knowledge and a little experience with a few aspects of fishkeeping...
i truly hate arguing about things..i had enough of it growing up..i would just rather let folks have it their way..and one should never argue with Irwin Corey...


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I use the word "claim" because I think it is kind of like with bio-starters. Some are good and others are not. I wasn't really attempting to go into that so I just added the word claim LOL. It is not an area that I have a huge amount of experience with, but I have had ammonia neutralizer products that screwed with things in a bad way.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

to be honest about it.....there are all kinds of products everywhere on the market that "claim" to do things that they actually do no or barely do.you were quite accurate obs..
for me ; what do i always tell people ???
THE MORE YOU MESS WITH YOUR TANKS ; THE MORE PROBLEMS YOU CREATE FOR YOURSELF......
simple as that...if your ammonia levels are running high ; it means you are doing something wrong..instead of a quick temporary fix , you need to figure out what...first thing i would do is water changes..25-30% every day to bring the ammonia down while i am working on the problem itself..while the water changes may be a quick fix , they are the most natural(no chemicals) and most beneficial at the moment..


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

obsidian: got it! 
loha: amen!
( and, no one was even slightly interested in my geeky scientific factoid? Here I go and let my geek flag fly high, and not one person takes note. I am not sure what that says about this forum... )


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

oh C K...i read it...and found it very interesting how many naturally occurring water sources smell like rotten eggs...the smell comes from the sulfur deep in the ground...
i am just not always good with the scientific stuff...lol
but i guess it helps to explain some of the aftermath when folks eat eggs and beans and cabbage and stuff....


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

So my tank has sulfur in it? It stinks like rotten eggs BADLY!!!


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2013)

If you don't maintain your tank, yes it can smell badly, very badly.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I do maintain it. Very well actually.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Betta-
Usually that is from an anaerobic pocket that can form in tanks. You will want to stir your gravel slowly with a straw or stick or something slim. You will want to do a 50% water change with this as those gases are not good at all. Then, were it me, I would do a 10% WC daily for about a week. The gases continue to leak into the tank for a while and can harm the fishies. 

I had this happen in my 10ga Betta tank when a pocket insisted on forming next to my plant. I never had a problem with the fish when I handled it this way. I also left the top open to make sure there wasn't any hindrance in the tank's ability to breathe. It would probably have been fine, but it just seemed better in my head to leave it open LOL.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

you will know that the problem would be sulfur if the water comes out of the tap smelling like rotten eggs...if it id just in the tank then it is coming from the substrate as obsidian said..


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

That's odd. I have malaysian trumpet snails. Aren't they supposed to help?


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2013)

I believe that the function of snails are to keep the algae at bay in an aquarium. I don't think that any snails will help keep a tank from smelling like rotten eggs.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

MTS have always worked well for keeping the substrate aerated when i had them...never had a problem with a tank they were in...but then again , i probably had a couple of hundred of them in each tank.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Betta they should help, but it might not be quite enough for some reason. You might not have enough of them down there, or someplace might just really be attracting mulm more than another creating an annoying section of stink. Do the stick thing and water change thing and it will go away. Keep up with at least weekly changes etc. You will want to stir your substrate regularly if you are having the smell issue, to keep it at bay and have a healthy tank.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Dern assassin snail has been eating em. I got it for ramshorn control and it stabs me in the back. (or assassinates me)


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## Chard56 (Oct 10, 2010)

Should have done your homework. They eat MTS like candy.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I thought they'd go after the ramshorns first. They're more plentiful. Anyways, I have another tankful of mts.


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