# New Stocking Guideline



## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Hello,

To answer the How Many Fish Can I Keep question, a spreadsheet has been developed that can be accessed via the following website:

http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/

The spreadsheet is called FishsheetA6 and is much more comprehensive than the "inch per gallon" rule or any of the other common stocking rules that I have seen. Anyhow, take a look at and see what you think.

MOA


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeping fish really doesnt have anything to do with inch per gallon it has to do with agression and filtration for the most part.


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

Blue Cray said:


> Keeping fish really doesnt have anything to do with inch per gallon it has to do with agression and filtration for the most part.


I agree. Mostly it just comes down to common sense. If you were judging by size it would be ok to keep two knife fish in a large tank (100+ gallons), but due to the fact they'd tear each other part I would advise against mixing them.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Did you actually look at the stocking guide? You will find that agrees with you in principle but makes finding the information much easier.

MOA


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i don't adhere to any kind of stocking guide...i put in my tanks what i think will work for me..every situation is a bit different..if you are a breeder ; there is no way that you could have enough tankspace for a few thousand growing fry...i am afraid that your spreadsheet does not know enough about fish to make the determination to dictate how many of what people should put in their tanks.

no ; i didn't look at the link..i am certainly more concerned about what kind of virus my computer will get from it than what information it has.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Hello Again,

I am sorry you feel that way. True, FishsheetA6 was not designed for breeding (even though the filtration components do allow for the basic principle, the space recommendations will prevent breeding conditions for its standard species due to their adult sizes), but that does not keep it from having any useful applications. For new aquarists, which is who it was designed for, such an exhuastive guide does have advantages: it prevents overstocking and ensures that the basic needs of the fish are accounted for.

I understand your skepticism and concern (though it should be mentioned that Google sites are very safe to use), but I am not going to stop trying to help new aquarists. I figure that the more information they can be given, the better aquarists they will become. FishsheetA6 covers over 240 different types of fish. It "knows" their biomass, temperature needs, mimimum tank sizes, and even suggests compatible fish (not perfectly, but it does better than nothing). Also, it can adjust for almost any tank style and all the basic filter types. It even adjusts for the feeding schedule of the user. This is a very intricate tool, not just a numerical computation.

Thank you for your input, I really do appreciate it. No less, I am not going to ignore the possibilities presented by new technology. New aquarists deserve all the help they can get. I'm a mathematician and designing new formulas is what I do; it is a talent I am not going to waste. Granted, I cannot account for everything, but I can help with the specific conditions that usually apply to new aquarists.

Respectfully,
MOA


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

haven't looked at it but sounds like a great tool for the absolute beginers. Now we just need to find a good flash animation that explains the nitrogen cycle and we won't have to worry as much. =)


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

LOL,

The website does reference some material on the Nitrogen Cycle, but it would be awesome if the two ideas could be incorporated into one. I'm actually looking for a cheap way to include the spreadsheet fields directly into the website. That way, no one would have to worry about downloads. However, finding a program that can convert 240,000 cells to dynamic content is a bit hard to do (lol).

Thanks,
MOA


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

MOA, I haven't downloaded yet either. Does the spread sheet address hardness/ softness of the water as a requirement for different species?


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2009)

honestly dont think a spreadsheeet can work as a guideline for stocking a tank. i would say experience and knowledge of your water chemistry would help. Sorry MOA.


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Spreadsheet is far better than going in blind. So long as spreadsheet is conservative in it's estimations then it will be a great tool for new begininers noobie noob noobs


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## Alexis (Aug 9, 2009)

I agree with Blue_Cray, Ghost_Knife, Lohachata and Zakk, but I would still like to look at this spreadsheet just out of curiousity. I'm a very curious and inquisitive person. LOL My computer can't read those files tho.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

here is where i have a problem with a spreadsheet..
it cannot think...it cannot make live observations.. it cannot make accurate evaluations based upon it's own personal experience...
it is only a part of a machine that will tell you to do what somebody told it to tell you..
mathematics is certainly critical for many things in this world ; but a fish is so much more than just a number or group of numbers..it is a living breathing being that deserves more than some spreadsheet numbers....
it will be fine for telling someone that barely even knows what a fish is what to put into their tank..
sorry..i just ain't buyin it..maybe just because i am old and believe in things being on a more personal level... but ; hang in there..it won't be long before all the old folks will be dead and gone and there will be spreadsheets for everything....like who to marry..whether or not to have children....stuff like that..


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Hello Again Everyone,

Ron V,

No, the spreadsheet does not address hardness, ph, or basicity (alkalinity), but there is a reason for this ommision: I have kept fish for over a decade and have also sold fish and the one thing that amazed me is how adaptable fish are. I have kept discus in water with a pH above 8.0, bred many fish at least 0.5 pH (and more than 100ppm on the hardness scale) above or below the suggested breeding conditions, and have never had significant problems with any of these issues. The reason why many chemistry calculations were omitted is that proper acclimation of the fish is typically al that is required. No less, there are exceptions to this rule, but those kind of fish usually require much more care than most new aquarists are really prepared to offer. My website does talk about water chemistry and other considerations but adding info on proper acclimation couldn't hurt. Thanks for the suggestion.

Zakk,

FishsheetA6 was not designed to replace common sense--it was meant to reinforce common sense and research. Also, this is no ordinary spreadsheet. It literally has over 240,000 cells and performs hundreds of computations per fish. Granted, it will not tell you what you can do, but it will give new aquarists a good idea of what they shouldn't do. It is designed to error on the side of caution (even though it is still pretty flexible).

Alexis,

I am so sorry that my files are not compatible. Very sorry. Is there a particular format that does work for you? Also, I could post a screenshot of the spreadsheet on my website but it wouldn't be functional at all. Nonetheless, it would allow you to look at the basic layout. Would that be helpful?

Again, Thanks Everyone!
MOA


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## frdfandc (Aug 10, 2009)

As a new aquarist, I would rather go by someone's personal experience, knowledge and wisdom over a spreadsheet. Its always nice to go by "numbers", but numbers always falls short. Numbers can't account for the "unknown variable". Whereas experience can.

I've delt with "numbers" alot with my other hobby - dragracing. You can incorporate all your information about what your vehicle combination has and plug it into a spreadsheet, but when the car doesn't run the number, you will start wondering why your vehicle hasn't matched your "spreadsheet numbers".

I can take a 500 hp car and put a 15 second driver behind the wheel, and the car will run 13 seconds. Take the same 500hp car, put a highly experienced and talented driver, and it will go much faster.

Experience, Knowledge, Wisdom, and Common Sense is what I always start with.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

lohachata and frdfandc,

I agree with you. Personally, I would love it if new aquarists took time to do research and spent time with more knowledgeable fish-keepers. Frankly, some of the most valuable things I've learned about fish-keeping haven't come from a book or even my own experience. I have a friend who owns a small aquarium shop in the next town over and he has been keeping fish for nearly half a century. I disagree with him regarding the "thrive or survive" question (he's a pragmatist while I'm much more idealistic), but he has taught me some awesome things that just cannot be learned except by apprenticeship.

For example, I am a bit backward in that I hate test kits (even though I still recommend them to beginners). The reason why I have such a distaste for the kits is that they simply are not very accurate or comprehensive indicators. I used to work at the college lab a couple years back and, just for kicks, would compare the commercially available test kits to the lab equipment. Big mistake! Now I have a very low opinion of test kits. Some of the "best" brands were off by more than 25% in 50-75% of all tests. Additionally, a test kit can't tell you if your fish get along or if they are stressed (observation and experience are best for this). Yes, test kits are semi-useful, but my friend showed me a little trick to get around them: the smell check. My friend can give a basic chemistry diagnosis for almost any aquarium (salt or fresh) just by smelling it! Weird, huh? I didn't believe him at first, but we compared him to the lab results and found out he was right 8 out of 10 times to within 25% (good sniffer; a bit better than the commercial test kits). I am not as good at it as he is but I can get by in most cases by smelling my tanks. This skill (if you can call it that) can't be learned from a book and is difficult to explain in writing (you have to practice with someone who knows).

It would be awesome if every new aquarist had a mentor who could show them all about aquarium husbandry, but apprenticeship hardly ever really occurs in this hobby. Furthermore, the vast majority of newbies I sold fish to hated the idea of waiting--they didn't want to listen or read (until they had a problem and came begging for help). There are always going to be stupid people out there who simply do not care. These people kill many good and healthy fish simply because the one little bit of advice they do hear (the inch-per-gallon rule) does not work very well. I can't make everyone listen, but I see no good reason why the fish should have to suffer for it.

To help this group of new aquarists, the "instant" group, I created a spreadsheet that only takes 5-15 minutes to complete but still incorporates a vast amount of knowledge and experience. I didn't make it alone (I constructed the base units, but not the reference points) and I am always willing to look for ways to improve it provided the suggestions actually relate to the goal of presenting new aquarists with useful information in a package that is relatively pragmatic (you know, not the book that they are scared of reading, lol). 

I wish people realized the value of experience and took time to learn about a hobby before jumping into it. Nonetheless, such aspirations are just dreams, especially in this society. Subsequently, I narrowed my focus to saving the fish. If I can provide a tool that saves even a few fish then it will be worth it to me. Of course a spreadsheet is inadequate to replace common sense and suitable provision, but it is better than leaving the inexperienced to their own devices. Think of the spreadsheet as an intermediate step: it introduces new aquarists to a fundamental concept--there is more to keeping fish than one or two considerations. From there, the realization of multiple factors, you can build a foundation of knowledge and experience.

I Know it isn't perfect, guys. I am just trying to make it better for what it is.

Very Thankfully,
MOA

P.S., Alexis, I will try to get that screenshot up tonight. Everyone else, I'm going to do some rearranging of the website to account for the items you brought to my attention (acclimation, chemistry, etc.).


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Woot! goodman!! Like I said, perfect for the nooby noob noobs.


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

K just tried it out. It seems broken at the moment. saying I've got 100% filtration left, no waste.. etc. etc. Noticed that Beta Females is missing the 3 spot, and Male betta has no # option. I can see what you're trying to do and I would say that it can become a very powerful tool that we can reference the nubs too. I would suggest somehow simplifying it a bit.. idk how you would do that, but I really don't thing a 12y.o. or even a 16y.o. would be able to use this easily.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi Again,

It sounds like you might have tripped the yes/no option box at the beginning of the "Manual Input" section (section 4). The spreadsheet asks, "Do you wish to use this section in addition to the previous section? ("No"=ignore previous, "Yes"=use previous)." If you select "no", then the spreadsheet literally "turns off" all of the 240 types of fish that come before. Additionally, you have to select numbers for the fish other than 0 in order for them to show up (common sense, I know--just covering the bases). Nonetheless, I will go through and check the files to be sure that this is not something more serious. It would be helpful to know what data you entered and which file you used ('95-'03 or 20007?).

As to the female bettas. That is a result based on experience. I have seen female become very aggressive in small groups and the smallest one may be picked on to death. Of course, not all females are problematic, but this depends on their respective personalities (a hard thing to determine before the fish are bought, lol). Subsequently, the spreadsheet avoids small groups altogether (safety first). On the other hand, FishsheetA6.smallsize does allow any number to be entered for any species (though it still gives a warning for conditions where the fish may fight).

The male bettas are another story. The spreadsheet recognizes two basic "rules": a) males will fight females if they are not breeding (the spreadsheet was not designed for breeding) and b) males do not typically get along. Therefore, if you enter any females whatsoever, then the spreadsheet "turns off" the male bettas as a safety feature (the spreadsheet makes lots of decisions depending on which species are or are not selected). If no females are in the tank, then the spreadsheet will only allow one male to be kept. This one of those "safety first" scenarios.

Latly, I see your point that it is pretty intricate. I am rather notorious for giving confusing directions and I really need to work on that. Additionally, maybe I should take out some of the options that are in the spreadsheet (obviously, the yes/no field in section 4 can be a problem). I guess I am just afraid that the spreadsheet will lose some functionality if I take out those options. Maybe I should simply make a user's manual?

Open to Suggestions,
MOA


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

MOA.....now here is where you and i are very much of the same mind...and something i have been telling folks here for quite some time...
paragraphs 2 and 3 of you 12:05 post..lots of folks think i am crazy because i can get a good idea of what is going on in my tanks by smell..and even taste.
also that i hate test kits..for several years i maintained a small boiler and had to test the water several times a day..every piece of equipment i used had to be cleaned and rinsed with deionized water because tapwater will leave a residue after drying...although an expensive item for a hobbyist and so many take them as the gospel without realizing how terrible inaccurate they are...being 50% off is a massive error and could possibly cause one to stress or even kill their fish..

i may not be a believer in the spreadsheet ; even though i do understand your intent for it's purpose ; i am with you 100% on the other stuff..

so ; now everybody is going to think that we are both lunatics....lol


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

LOL!

I don't think you can be normal and be a good aquarist at the same time. Keeping fish requires people to step outside their comfortable terrestrial view of life and begin to think in more "aquatic" ways. In a sense, keeping fish is almost like keeping aliens, and no normal person would keep aliens, right?

Also, Toshogu, I ran a quick diagnostic on all the internet files and couldn't find anything that might trigger the results you mentioned besides the option is section 4. If this (changing the toggle in section 4) doesn't work for you, please let me know what other data you entered into the spreadsheet (tank type and dimensions, filtration stats, feeding stats, etc.). You may have stumbled across a "loophole" in the formulas and I really want to fix it.

MOA


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2009)

MOA,

mind if fiddled with it a bit?


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Zakk,

Fiddled with it? No you can't. You can change it, tear it apart, completely alter its functionality, but you can't simply "fiddle" with it! Lol. Of course you can mess with it. If you can find a way to make it work better then, by all means, fiddle with and do whatever you like to it. 

Or are you asking for a copy of the file? If you need a copy you can use the website or the website links (they go to meadiafire.com). If you would rather not use these options I could try to add a copy as an attachment if you tell me which format works for you ('95-'03 or 2007). No less, I'm not sure that the forum will let me attach that size of file. Anyone know what the KB limit on attachments is?

MOA


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2009)

na thats cool! i downloaded it onto my comp. lemme see if i can tweek it around a bit to add more. love doing this kinds stuff!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

oh lord...we are doomed,,,,,lol


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## elvis332 (Dec 29, 2007)

lohachata said:


> i don't adhere to any kind of stocking guide...i put in my tanks what i think will work for me..every situation is a bit different..if you are a breeder ; there is no way that you could have enough tankspace for a few thousand growing fry...i am afraid that your spreadsheet does not know enough about fish to make the determination to dictate how many of what people should put in their tanks.
> 
> no ; i didn't look at the link..i am certainly more concerned about what kind of virus my computer will get from it than what information it has.


i agree with you on that.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Quick Update,

I added an example to the website to hopefully help explain how to use FishsheetA6. It does cover the problem with the toggle in section 4.

MOA


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi,

A new version is available that allows for a greater range of user preferrences and is more specific regarding fish needs.

MOA


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

So Zakk,

Any imprivements/suggestions?

In Anticipation,
MOA


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

kk I'll check it out again and see if I run into any problems and report =)

I still think this will be a good tool to reference the nubs too.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I DLed it and tried to use it. Not very Mac compatible...but from what I saw it seems fairly comprehensive and considerate of a lot of different variables.

That being said, you can't rely on a spreadsheet to predict compatibility. That is one area where the art overtakes the science of fishkeeping. You need to have a thorough understanding of what you're doing.

As for new keepers doing stupid things, well, that's just too bad. The good ones will eventually see the light and learn from their mistakes and become good hobby keepers. The bad ones will get frustrated and get a kitten instead. No loss to me.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Sadly, not even people can predict compatability in all cases. Some fish have variable personalities that depend upon the individual fish. Sometimes, the only thing you can do is try something and hope that luck is with you.

MOA


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Loha, I really have to say, I admire your view on fish keeping xD
There's very few people on this forum, or any for that matter- that seem to just "let go of every common rule" for more than a second and just take it into their own hands. When I still had all my fish ruling the house, everything just went with the flow, and it worked perfectly


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

compatability can only be learned from fish to fish. Some like betta's seem to have more wiggle room with other fish. But Oscars... not at all. That's just a matter of asking people, and also looking at tank sigs. Tank sigs in this forum are a very helpful to in and of themselves. Gives you ideas, also shows you what you might be able to get away with.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

it's a good thing i don't post what is in my tanks...other than just saying fish and water..
thanks flamingo..i learned a long time ago that the fish will tell me more about the tank conditions and species compatibility than the tests and books...books are great for general information..but they just cannot touch hands on experience...


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Hello,

I made another spreadsheet , but this one isn't for stocking the aquarium. Instead, it is designed to help new fish breeders select and breed stocks. Below are links to a spreadsheet that calculates a dihybrid punnett square and the various genotypes and phenotypes that could arise.

Genotype: The genetic signature of an animal that will influence future generations

Phenotype: The appearance of an animal with regard to genetic traits (some animals will carry a trait but not show it and they will thus look as if they had the same traits as another animal).

Let's look at an example: let's say you want to combine a strain of fish with long tail fins with a strain that has red bodies. First you have to determine the genotype of the parental stock. The genotype describes the traits an animal carries and their dominance. For our purposes, let's say that the genotypes of our fish are as follows:

Father: Long Tail Recessive (the long tail doesn't normally occur in the wild type) with normal body color dominant (the fish comes from a long line of fish with normal body colors). This, in genetic alleles that the spreadsheet uses would be ttDD, where the tt represents a recessive tail structure and DD represents a dominant body type.

Mother: Normal Tail Dominant with red body color recessive. The genetic alleles for the spreadsheet would be TTdd, where TT represents a dominant tail structure and dd represents a recessive body color (red).

When plugged into the spreadsheet, the resulting offspring would have these traits:

Dihybrid Punnett Square 

Directions: Fill out the genetic information for the parents 
using "to" for dominant alleles and "ot" for recessive alleles. 
The remainder of the spreadsheet will fill itself out. 

First Alleles Second Alleles 
Father ot ot to to 
Mother to to ot ot Results: Genotype 
Geno. Pheno. otdo otdo otdo otdo 
Dom Dom (TTDD) 20 1 tood TtDd TtDd TtDd TtDd 
Dom Het (TTDd) 23 1 tood TtDd TtDd TtDd TtDd 
Dom Rec (TTdd) 26 2 tood TtDd TtDd TtDd TtDd 
Het Dom (TtDD) 21 1 tood TtDd TtDd TtDd TtDd 
Het Het (TtDd) 24 1 
Het Rec (Ttdd) 27 2 otdo otdo otdo otdo 
Rec Dom (ttDD) 22 3 tood 24 24 24 24 
Rec Het (ttDd) 25 3 tood 24 24 24 24 
Rec Rec (ttdd) 28 4 tood 24 24 24 24 
tood 24 24 24 24 

Results: Phenotype 
1 1 1 1 
1 1 1 1 
1 1 1 1 
1 1 1 1 


As you can see, all of the offspring would not only look the same (phenotype 1), but also be genetically identical (genotype 24), and have the same alleles (TtDd). This means that the offspring will look like the wild type rather than either of the parents.

If the offspring were to be bred with each other, then their children would be quite diffrent (note that the alleles in the Father and Mother cells were changed to accommodate their new genes (type TtDd):

Dihybrid Punnett Square 

Directions: Fill out the genetic information for the parents 
using "to" for dominant alleles and "ot" for recessive alleles. 
The remainder of the spreadsheet will fill itself out. 

First Alleles Second Alleles 
Father to ot to ot 
Mother to ot to ot Results: Genotype 
Geno. Pheno. todo tood otdo otod 
Dom Dom (TTDD) 20 1 todo TTDD TTDd TtDD TtDd 
Dom Het (TTDd) 23 1 tood TTDd TTdd TtDd Ttdd 
Dom Rec (TTdd) 26 2 otdo TtDD TtDd ttDD ttDd 
Het Dom (TtDD) 21 1 otod TtDd Ttdd ttDd ttdd 
Het Het (TtDd) 24 1 
Het Rec (Ttdd) 27 2 todo tood otdo otod 
Rec Dom (ttDD) 22 3 todo 20 23 21 24 
Rec Het (ttDd) 25 3 tood 23 26 24 27 
Rec Rec (ttdd) 28 4 otdo 21 24 22 25 
otod 24 27 25 28 

Results: Phenotype 
1 1 1 1 
1 2 1 2 
1 1 3 3 
1 2 3 4 


Since the offspring of the first generation carried the reccessive genes (both t and d) even though they did not look like they did, some of their offspring will begin to show those traits that did not show up at first. The new batch of offspring will mostly look like the wild type (9/16 or 56.25% will have phenotype 1). No less, some of the offspring will show long tails and red bodies. Of the offspring, 3/16 (or 18.75%) will have long tails (phenotype 3, genotype 22 or 25) and the same percentage will have red bodies (phenotype 2, genotype 26 or 27). Only 1/16 (6.25%) will show both long tails and red bodies (phenotype 4, genotype 28, ttdd).

Thus, only the second generation will show the traits that aquarist was looking for. If these fish that show both traits are bred from then on, then all of the offspring should show those traits as well:

Dihybrid Punnett Square 

Directions: Fill out the genetic information for the parents 
using "to" for dominant alleles and "ot" for recessive alleles. 
The remainder of the spreadsheet will fill itself out. 

First Alleles Second Alleles 
Father ot ot ot ot 
Mother ot ot ot ot Results: Genotype 
Geno. Pheno. otod otod otod otod 
Dom Dom (TTDD) 20 1 otod ttdd ttdd ttdd ttdd 
Dom Het (TTDd) 23 1 otod ttdd ttdd ttdd ttdd 
Dom Rec (TTdd) 26 2 otod ttdd ttdd ttdd ttdd 
Het Dom (TtDD) 21 1 otod ttdd ttdd ttdd ttdd 
Het Het (TtDd) 24 1 
Het Rec (Ttdd) 27 2 otod otod otod otod 
Rec Dom (ttDD) 22 3 otod 28 28 28 28 
Rec Het (ttDd) 25 3 otod 28 28 28 28 
Rec Rec (ttdd) 28 4 otod 28 28 28 28 
otod 28 28 28 28 

Results: Phenotype 
4 4 4 4 
4 4 4 4 
4 4 4 4 
4 4 4 4 


Anyhow, play around with it and tell me what you think!

MOA

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ym0tvzjkvvz/dihybridpunnettsquare.xlsx

http://www.mediafire.com/file/natanitllrn/dihybridpunnettsquarexls.xls


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## Mew_chan (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi there, I am a beginner when it comes to tanks (as in I have only been interested in the hobby for about 9months) and looking at it from a beginners point of view the spread sheet is way... way to complicated. I am also versed in the art of Human Computer Interaction (how people interact with technology) 

To test your spread sheet I was considering my new 90cmLx20cmWx35cmH - 68L tank (20Gal roughly). Using - FishsheetA6.97to03.smallsize.xls 706k - on Aug 11, 2009 3:20 PM by MOA Fishkeeper (version 1) 

One major problem I noticed is that the measurements you are using are not always clearly indicated(especially when like me you are raised on metric and imperial measurements do not make immediate sense). For example: I was looking into adding Fire embers to the 68L tank mentioned above and could not work out what measurements you were using for their size, it gave a value of 2 but 2 what? you have used inches everywhere else on the sheet but 2 inches? that makes fire ember tetras 5cm long? When other sites clearly state them as not getting much bigger than 2-3cm. The same was true for the Rasboras I tried to enter. Also your PH scale is strange as I was always taught that a pH of 7 is neutral (at one point PH was referenced to be 1.7 and on the scale I was taught I would assume that would kill a fish). I was completely bemused by some of the abbreviations you used, with no idea what they mean their inclusion only helped to confuse me. Basically adding abbreviations is pointless unless you describe them especially when writing for beginners. 

Unfortunately you also seem to be assuming that the person looking at the spread sheet has some knowledge of Aquariums and their keeping. Asking all the questions before hand is pointless if all the person knows about their tanks is its measurements. You should be the one telling them what food they need to feed their fish and what sort of filtration unit would suit their choices of fish, asking what type of filter is a bit pointless too as many people would be thinking: "I don’t know it came with the tank". I also found the form of the final output confusing and not very helpful.

Also do you take into consideration the space different fish occupy? ie, top, bottom, middle of tank or if they are schoolers? It gave me a space warning if I tried to enter 4 peppered corys and 12 flame tetras, that does not seem right to me.

Also the sheet is not set out for the average person to use. If you think about it most people do not want to have to think about what they are doing too much, especially beginners, as you have already mentioned they are very "I want it now" and anything which is not easily accessible is quickly passed over. While the content on the website is very thought out, the writing style is more at home in a university paper then on an information site on the internet. You are clearly very smart but since your target Audience is likely to be... well not... you need to dumb things down... a lot, both on the sheet and on your page... It is also very cluttered and confusing. You would probably be better off removing most of the supporting info from with in the spread sheet and putting it on the web page. Create a page supporting it with screen shots and clear instructions.

A few other suggestions:
I would also not even give the users the option to include fish that would not work in their tank, so as soon as they enter their tank size red out inappropriate fish. You should probably also make the general attributes of a single fish visible at all times, so that if they are looking for fish that would work, but are not yet sure what to choose, they could use this as a reference. Before they are able to put in specific fish perhaps have a drop down box asking what type of fish they are looking for, ie colourful, active, schooling, interesting, hyperactive, carnivore, vegetarian etc. and then recommend what fish might work for them.

If your goal really is to save the lives of fish in the hands of total beginners, and to have your spread sheet be of much use to them (and actually make them want to use it), than you will need to change this sheet, dumb it down, and act as though the people using the sheet have no idea what they are doing.

Sorry this probably isn’t very well set out and a bit confusing… if you want any more suggestions from a beginners point of view just ask me.


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## MOA (Aug 16, 2009)

Mew_chan,

Thank you very much for taking the time to post all of this feeback! These ideas will definitely help make FishsheetA7 a better program.

Now as to your concerns:

*Complicated:* Yes, the spreadsheet is very complex and multi-faceted. This is definitely a problem I am working on. To remedy this problem in the next version, I am going to set most of the components up on their own sheets. That way, the new aquarist does not have to face all the info at once. Instead, the user will be able to sift through specific types of data entry one-at-a-time.

*FishsheetA6.97to03.smallsize:* This is not the most recent version. This one was kept just because it is relatively small and therefore less troublesome for persons using a dial-up connection. The most current version is update3.

*Measurements:* I agree with you completely on this one. If you look at more recent versions, then you will find that caveats were added regarding the measurements that are used. You also questioned the size of the ember tetras. I find this interesting in that ember tetras are not on the list of fish in the spreadsheet. The only tetras are as follows:

Black Neon Tetra 
Black Skirt Tetra 
Bleeding Heart Tetra 
Blind Cave Tetra 
Bloodfin Tetra 
Bucktoothed Tetra 
Buenos Aires Tetra 
Cardinal Tetra 
Columbian Tetra 
Congo Tetra 
Dash Dot Tetra 
Diamond Tetra 
Emperor Tetra 
Flame Tetra 
Garnet Tetra 
Glowlight Tetra 
Gold Tetra 
Head and Tail Light Tetra 
Lemon Tetra 
Neon Tetra 
Penguin Tetra 
Red Eye Tetra 
Rosy Tetra 
Rummy Nose Tetra 
Serpae, Red Minor Tetra 
Silver Tip Tetra 
Splashing Tetra 

As you can see, I am having problems understanding where you got ember tetras from? It is possible to add them using the manual input fields, but, in that case, you would have to enter the adult size yourself. Also, you did not specifiy which type of rasbora you entered (manual or otherwise).

All of the sizes that the spreadsheet uses are either an average of three sources or the wild size of the fish (the spreadsheet is somewhat idealistic, but it can be adjusted to meet most expectations). Consequently, the adult size it spits out is usually pretty close to what can be found online.

*Abbreviations:* You also mentioned the PH. Please do not confuse PH with pH. PH, as described in line 2506 and in the Manual Input Diagram, refers to the _Picture Height_ of a species being manually entered. The pH (meaning _per Hydrogen_ and refering to water chemistry), on the other hand, is not found anywhere in the spreadsheet as pH is highly variable.

As to my other abbreviations, the vast majority of them, especially in more recent versions, are described in the informational sections that precede each set of fields. As it seems you missed all of these descriptions, it is logical for me to assume that new aquarists really, really, really hate reading. I am going to have to find a way around this tendancy.

*Space:* Yes, the spreadsheet does keep track of space requirements and assigns each fish its own "bubble." 

*General:* Unfortunately, the spreadsheet has two somewhat incompatible tasks ahead of it: 1) it needs to be easy enough to understand but 2) it must also be accurate. If I simplify my spreadsheet and make it more directive (making it tell people what to do), then more experienced aquarists will be irate because I will have to leave out some major possibilities. The simple fact is that aquarium husbandry is somewhat complex and requires people to think as well as react.

Since my version is a bit hard to use, another aquarist made a follow-up version you may be interested in:

http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/user-modifications

This version was designed to be a bit more user-friendly. Also, you might consider doing a "mock-up" of a spreadsheet you would like to see. I doesn't have to be functional, of course; all I would like to see is how you would label and describe things.




Thank you very much for your feedback and I will try my best to incorporate your ideas in the new version. FishsheetA7 is going to be awesome due to people like you 

MOA


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