# UGF and Live plants



## FatboySkinny

What do you guys think about under gravel filters and plants? I've heard different things but no one really gave me a definite answer. Maybe there are types of living plants that do work with UGF's?


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## Guest

Plants and UG filters are fun. My work uses them. However, the roots get tangled in the filters, and just makes a big mess...not fun. However, why would you want to use a UG filter anyways?


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## lohachata

although UG filters do get dirty after a awhile.they are much better than most other filters out there.for the most part,they have fallen out of favor because they are not new technology.they are not so sophisticated and troublesome as some of the newer stuff.canisters may be nice;but they are a pain in the butt.they need to be torn down and everything cleaned and pads or such need to be replaced.
i have kept plants in tanks with UG filters for many years and never had a problem.yes;they roots can get tangled in the plates;but that isin't that big of a deal..
ok..so send me to the electric chair..i like UG filters.


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## Guest

I could see issues if you let the plants get established and then go moving them.....roots would be tangled. I've never used one and don't plan too, just to avoid the issues. I've heard they can trap debri and send your nitrates sky high too.

I don't see how they are better than other filters personally. I prefer to have sponges in my filters, but I guess that's because I've always used sponges. I like having a filter that I can put any media in, like a canister or an Aquaclear HOB. Everyone has their preferences.


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## COM

I hate undergravel filters. They're at least 40 years out of date. They are a hassle and difficult with plants. Just get a HOB or canister setup and you'll be cool.


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## jones57742

Folks:

Just curious.

Some of the literature indicates that plants benefit from the warmth the UGF provides.

Anyone have thoughts on this concept?

TR


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## lohachata

no doubt that i am one of the few;if not the only one here that puts plants in a tank with UG filters.i have been doing it for quite some time.the flow of the water keeps the entire tank temps very even.thus allowing the roots to be a little warmer than a tank without UG filtration.the actual temp difference isn't much;but it does make a difference in plant growth.that is why they make heater cables that go under the gravel in tanks that use HOB or canister filters.the UG filter also pulls the nutrients deeper into the gravel,thus providing better fertilization the the deeper roots.


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## Sea-Agg2009

So how do you deal with the roots in the UG filter? Do you pull everything up to trim the roots?


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## lohachata

i don't mess with them until i am ready to tear the tank down.then i just clip the roots close to the plate and go from there.depending on tank size;tear down is from once a year for small tanks and once every 2-3 years for larger tanks.


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## jones57742

John:

You seem to have a ton of experience here (as opposed to the Internet parrots).

My current substrate has been in place approximately 2.5 years and is a laminate with 1" of aggregate overlaid by 2" of laterite overlaid by 1" of aggregate.


[1] Do you believe that the the laterite still active? (the tank has been medium planted)

[2] Will a UGF or RUGF function with this substrate architecture?

TR


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## TheOldSalt

*squawk* I'll parrot in:

Yes, a UGF would work with that type of substrate. It could clog eventually as most filters do, but it would work for quite awhile.

The laterite is probably coated with enough bioslime by now to impede it's functioning except where directly contacted by roots, but that is easily rectified by rough rinsing which includes a bit of mild grinding action. After that it should be almost good as new for many more months.

As for Loha's experience.. heh, heh.. he's actually kinda famous in certain fishy circles. I've got some old magazines and journals which mention him and one even has a picture of him at an event. Did I mention these are OLD books? LOL!! Yep, he's experienced!


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## jones57742

TOS: I appreciate the response.

The root contact area is the laterite of interest.

Dumb, dumb question here but would the RUGF be placed below the laterite or below the bottom course of gravel?

Also glad to know that we have a world renown fish keeper on the Forum.

TR

BTW please do not make fun of the old folks as I am a representative sample.


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## mikeingeorgia

I read a lot of print material and the consensus is usually that UGF's are the best type of filter to use since it utilizes all of the gravel in the tank as a bio filter by drawing everything down through it. Even if the roots were to grow down into the filter, the water would still flow through them. Unless you were constantly trying to rearrange the plants a UGF should be fine.


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## TheOldSalt

RUGF would go under all the gravel, same as always, unless you have some notion of putting a layer on the very bottom of the tank below the filter plates.


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## jones57742

TheOldSalt said:


> RUGF would go under all the gravel, same as always, unless you have some notion of putting a layer on the very bottom of the tank below the filter plates.


TOS:

The substrate architecture is 1" of aggregate overlaid by 2" of laterite overlaid by 1" of aggregate.

Would the RUGF be better below the laterite or below the gravel which is below the laterite?

TR


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## TheOldSalt

Below the gravel below the laterite, but I guess I'm not seeing how you would even have a choice in the matter, unless you've got some weird arrangement involving spacers. I'll assume that's it, as I think I remember you having something like that. If you were to put it above the bottom layer of aggregate, that layer would become anoxic. That would be fine if you want to use it as a de-nitrification layer, effectively turning it into a liverock bed, assuming it's deep enough. That type of thing doesn't tend to work very well in freshwater due to the higher level of saturated oxygen available in freshwater.


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## jones57742

I appreciate the input folks.

TR


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