# fish death probs



## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

in the last 2 weeks ive lost two fancy guppy males. i dont knw if its the tank of thewater or if there just old... i treat the water and do regular water changes due to fry. any sugestions


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

Its going to be hard to really say without knowing your water parameters. What are the PH, Ammonia, Nitrtrite and Nitrate readings? 

Is this the same tank listed above??


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

yeah its the tank above.... i havent got a reader.... ive got lots of flow in the water... heater and air pump... i treat the new water before it goes into the tank... i do 10% every few days and once a month i do 40%.


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

You really should either invest in a test kit or take a sample to a LFS and have them test it. Most stores will do it for free. How long has the tank been set up??


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

IMO, you've got a really heavy fish load in a 20 gallon tank.

I would bump up your WCs to something more like 30% every week.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Wow that is a big fish load. Whenever I find a dead fish, I do a large water change. It doesn't matter what killed it, a dead fish causes an ammonia spike in a small tank. The bigger your fry get, the more you feed them. If you don't scale up the water changes to go along with the extra load, you will have problems down the line.


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

it doesnt look overcorwded. there is plenty of room for swimming and theres no fighting. i dont think its overcrowded at all.. all he fish seem to be happy.


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Ok, lets break this down and see if we can get some answers:
1. What is the temp in the tank?
The mollies, platies, plec and guppies are all tropical and need temps between 78- 80F to thrive. The goldies and white clouds are cool water and do best between 68-74F. You need to separate them into different tanks to accommodate their specific needs.

2. Although mollies are concidered "peaceful", and compared to some cichlids they are, they can still get aggressive with some other fish. You may not always see the aggression as it tends to happen after lights out, but this COULD be what is happening to you guppies. Watch them closely.

3. Beating a dead horse here....Have the water tested to see if you have measurable amounts of ammonia or nitrites. 

4. Having plenty of swimming room isn't the only thing to concider with over stocking. The fish produce wastes that cause toxic chemicals in the water if not removed by the *nitrifying* bacteria or water changes. The goldies alone will produce a lot of waste and with the other fish, that about triples the load. They may look happy but you have alread had some death so thats a sign that something is not right and should be dealt with pronto.

5. Give us a few more details and we will be better able to help solve the problem. List the following please:
Ammonia Level
Nitrite Level
Nitrate Level
PH level
Water Temp
Water change amount and schedule
Plants or no plants
How long has the tank been set up with fish in it
Did you add all of the fish at once or slowly over time
What, if any, additives or conditioners do you use?

This information will get us on the right path to helping you find answers.


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## bluegerbil (Mar 12, 2008)

"Plenty of room for swimming" is a relative term: compared to a big lake, for example, they haven't got much room at all  . 

As others have said, the tank is too small to keep those fish in permanently. You need to test the water to check for ammonia issues or other problems. As fish are dying -and therefore decomposing- this is likely to be at least a contributing factor. 

Were there any signs of disease on the dead fish?


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

ill get the water tested soon and update you. no signs of anything really, the guppy has been swimming around and acting normal for a guppy, one thing though, he was the night before he died, swimming vertical! dnt know of that could be swim bladder or what really, still relitivly new to this


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its not the size of the tank alone, its whether you have enough filter for the fish and if the filter is working. Any time you change the load, add fish or feed extra, you could trigger a "mini-cycle" and the ammonia or nitrite could go up before coming down. When it goes up, it can kill fish which causes more ammonia. The smaller the tank, the more likely any small thing is going to cause an ammonia spike. A really big spike and you kill off your nitrifying bacteria and have to cycle the tank again which isn't good. You could also get the fish load to a point where you get ammonia after feeding even with an established filter because your filter is too small. A negative ammonia test will rule this out It could also be aggression or disease, but whenever you have multiple fish die with no other symptoms, you have to suspect water quality. 

I agree that you should look into a second tank. The goldfish will continue to grow, putting more and more bio-load in your tank. They will also eventually get big enough to eat young guppies.


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

tank is well overstocked (im pushing it with whats in my 130 liter) and again, its probably the water quality.

it says 80 liter deep in your sig is it a tall cylindrical or hexagonal tank ?


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

kinda of hex, all the sides are different sizes though. my pic is of the tank, ill try and get a better one


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

sorry just checked on website, its a 90 litre tank specs CS 112 24" x 20" x 12" (610 x 508 x 305mm) Holds 20 gallons (90 litres)


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

you can get problems with oxygen exchange with a taller tank as there is not much surface area


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

if the footprint is 24" x 12", its a standard 20H.


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

i have 2 internal filters running comstntly, one large and one small. havent had much algea appear. could it not just be one random death? old age? i baught 4 of them from my local pet shop, the only male died. are males less hady than the females, all my other fish dont have any of the same 'symptoms' as the male, could it be a one off. i am in the process of buying a test kit. will have results on here once i get it


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## jamesandmanda (Sep 17, 2008)

no matter how much filtration you have you still need them to cycle


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## ragnahr (Sep 25, 2008)

is it possible that they are just old? i have another one that looks the same size as the one that died and she looks like she is going to die. shes about 5cm long, shes kind of curled over the back like a hump, i have a jounger guppy female and shes swimming around and she seems fine, shes not yet fully grown. i baught them from local pet shop so o idea how old she is. just wondering if i should put her out f her misery or let her die. i just dont know


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