# I F'n HATE ICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (killed 3 of my prized possessions) :(



## Guest (Apr 12, 2005)

*Before you guys say anything about the size of the tank, I am planning out a 200 or 300 gallon right now*

Worst week ever.  Even the hospital tank didn't save them =(  They got too stressed and couldn't take it.

I lost my 3 best fish, and the only fish that lived but I wish had died was my blue devil damsel.

The 3 I lost were: 

Antenna Lion - 4" - very healthy, eating well when I got him, perfect specimen.
Maroon Gold-stripe Clown - 3" - Ate very well up until the day he died and was 100% perfect, awesome fins, great color, lively.
and my favorite....
Purple Tang - 4" - Vibrant yellow and purples, vivid stripes on the body, no imperfections, eating very well.

Total dammage: $185 (99 purple, 50 lion, 35 maroon)

...and now they are all dead.

F*CK YOU ICH.

Here are some pics I took of them after they started to have ICH, I took the pics to my LFS so they could help me determine what they had.

Sorry about the size, I don't have anything to re-size them










































45 Gal, just started reef.
1 Purple Tang
1 Antenna Lion
1 Maroon clown
1 Blue devil damsel
1 Emerald crab
1 Red Torch
20 blue leg hermits
45lbs of LR
crushed coral substrate
Wet-dry w/sump
protien skimmer in-sump
coral-life lighting w/moon lights
Ti heater

very depressed,
-Steve


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

sorry for your loss, I know how hard it is as I had two fish die my first year and had a hard battle with ich too. Its the best when you can spot ich at the first sign of it.


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## wrasser (Apr 5, 2005)

it really stinks losing nice fish, know were it came from?


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2005)

I *THINK* the tang actually had it. Let me tell you tho, I have learned a great lesson, I will quarantine every single damn thing that goes into that tank now, and do a formalin dip just before I add them. No more ICH.

-Steve


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## wrasser (Apr 5, 2005)

have you checked the tempature in the tank? it is one of the leading reasons that contribute to ich,


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

No it's not. 
The presence of "ickies" in the tank is the main cause of ick. The temperature might lead to an increase in their population, but that's it.

yeah, I know what you meant; I just had to say that for the newbies who might not know that.

Steve, I'm sorry you had to finally learn the lesson of quarantine the hard way, but at least now you've learned it, and you'll be a better aquarist for it.
Make sure you get that damsel out of the tank, and any other fish, and leave the tank fishless for two months. Otherwise, no amount of quarantining for the new fish will do any good. You might also want to look at getting an ultraviolet sterilizer.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2005)

Temp is very stable at 74*F

As for ICH, i've read up quite a bit, once it's in the tank, the tank needs to be fallow for 2 mo to rid it. A moving temp will cause stress, as well as poor water conditions, IF the ICH is in the tank, it will break out if the fish are stressed.

Yeah, i bought a fishing hook for the damsel, wish I never put him in there, stupid LFS. As for the sterilizer, I have one on the way, like I said, no more ICH, I just dont want to deal with it anymore.
-Steve


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## svolk (Apr 5, 2005)

I'm sorry that you lost your best fish. Recently I've been through the same thing as well. It was my first battle with ich and it was out of control by the time I figured out what was going on. I lost half of my tank. This past week I introduced 4 new babies into that tank and a few days later noticed a couple spots on their side fins. I started treating and raised the temp right away, and so far so good. Today is the last day of treatment and we haven't seen any visible signs since Saturday.

It was so frustrating, though. When it came back I was so upset. I'm trying desperately to get my husband to want to quarantine every fish, but he's way too impatient. I think he's learning his lesson after this second breakout though (he's the one who got the new fish and put them in before I got home, that little sneak).


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## wrasser (Apr 5, 2005)

This disease is usually associated with several environmental triggers. Changes in water temperature, exposure to high levels of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, low pH levels, low dissolved oxygen, and overcrowding are all factors contributing to the onset of the disease. You could lump all of these in a general category of stress, but I find it more appropriate to think of all of these as wholly unnatural conditions. In fact, Cryptocaryon irritans is rare in the wild, and even more unlikely to be lethal (Bunkley-Williams & Williams, 1994). Ich is truly a disease that exploits the conditions of captivity to reproduce and easily find suitable host


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## wrasser (Apr 5, 2005)

this mihgt help http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Tank conditions can be perfect and ick will still strike eventually. All it takes is one fish having a bad day and WHAMMO! Even fish in good shape will eventually succumb to the stress of having too many parasites chomping on their gills. Environmental control is NO control for ick. That's what I'm really saying; you can't prevent it by a bunch of homeopathic touchy-feely crap. You have to wipe it out before it wipes out your tank.

As for Bunkley-Williams and Williams, I think they are way off base. Crypto is nasty stuff!
Also, the occurance of a species depeds onthe geographical area and the factors of that area. That is, Crypto may not be as common as Oodinium, but that doesn't mean it's rare everywhere. In some places it is very common while Oo is the rare one. Since we get fish from all over the world, it hardly matters what is rare or common and where, for the industry is a great big melting pot.
"Brackish Ick," Icthyobodo, is fortunately fairly rare. It is however very common along the west Florida coast, and since the St. Pete area is where most of the US fish industry resides, that can be a problem. I've only had the displeasure of running across it a few times, but I suppose it'll become more and more widespread in the hobby over time. This is why I scoff so much at hyper/hypo salinity treatments for ick; these just don't work on 'bodo, and by the time one has figured out what the problem is it's often too late.

Then there's Neobenedinia...man, I hate these guys. Most of the world doesn't have to contend with it, but the Gulf Of Mexico/Carribean is badly infested. It just doesn't pay to buy a fish from these areas in the springtime. It's a wonder that these trematodes haven't made a bigger impact than they have, but then the home hobbyist probably wouldn't recognize what hit him. The pros of course fear and respect it. Uhm...there was a point to this....oh, right; some things are common in places and rare in others, but we can't discount the threat of something supposedly rare when everything gets mixed together in the industry, where the conditions for rapid transmission and growth are optimal.


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## wrasser (Apr 5, 2005)

you are right all fish have ich all the time. in the ocean it is present every were all the time, passing and going , from reef to fish. no big deal. on the other hand a closed system,WHAMMO. now you have a problem.the things we as aquarists need to focus on is PREVENTION. how do we do that educaction. dont get me wrong most of what everybody is saying is the same thing. TEMPATURE has a big factor in stress on the fish. so does electric current(grounding rod), water parameters, acclimation(PH the difference between your tank and the LFS plays big on stress, can and will be fatal), IMO 74 degrees is to cold, and contributed to the stress in the tank. we all have had ich in the beginning, what did youdo to prevent it? myself, heater(i live in fl.), ultra voilet light, oversize wet-dry, charcoal, oversize protien skimmer, grounding rod. i have not used chemicals or i do not use a hospital tank. there is nothing wrong with using them, nothing at all. when i acclimate my fish i put one drop of green x in with them. take this for what it is worth, all i am saying is educate yourself, and you will be secuessful.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

All fish do NOT have ich all the time. And it is not present in all tanks. (I'm sure the saltwater peeps are thankful for that). It isn't itroduced into a tank the same way algae is. Alge spores are in almost every area air exists. Ich isn't. It has to be introduced into a tank from a host as it can't live long without one.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Yeah thankfully when you treat ich with ich meds 99% of the time if you do it right, the paracite is gone from your tank unless you introduce a new fish. Out of every way to "prevent" an ich outbreak, the QT is by far the best. While in QT you treat with coppersafe for three weeks, and done, end of story for ich.


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## wrasser (Apr 5, 2005)

people i am sorry to make it sound like i want to aruge, i really dont, IMO, meds should be the last resort, the last. it is not good for the tank at all. try to find other resoces before doing so


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

That is why we use QT tanks. To contain the med and keep it out of the main...


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Indeed!

Drugs are not the "...last resort. The last." They are instead the first and only option.

Why?
Because no matter what else you do, you will ultimately fail. 

The power WILL go out someday. A storm or earthquake WILL wreak havoc. There WILL be a freakish heat wave or sudden unexpected cold snap which your cliate control can't handle in time. A fish WILL get injured and weakened. A fish WILL get old and weakened.

The list goes on; SOMETHING is going to go wrong, and there won't be anything you can do about it. Ick can only strike when it is IN the tank. Keep it out of the tank, and no matter how many stresses your fish wind up suffering, Ick won't be a problem.


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## crazy quattro (Mar 22, 2005)

Im losing a fishes a day, lost 3 clown loaches and 2 barbs this week alone!!!! Help! 

I tried using Nox-Ich but it doesnt seem to be working too well. My temp is at 84 degrees... should i raise it even more?1?! 

Can someone please help me. Im desperate. 
:| :|


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

in freshwater I would highly suggest raising the temp to 86 (depending on what you have in the tank) and add a teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons i believe it is? someone correct me if I'm wrong. Nox-Ich, hmmm never really heard of it... coppersafe is what i recomend if you use a med.


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## crazy quattro (Mar 22, 2005)

What type of salt and how often should i add it?


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Aquarium salt is what you want, and you only need to add it gradually over a period of time of 4-6 hours... you only have to add it once because its just for immediate releif for your fish (like advil for a headache) The temperature will actually kill the free swimming paracite while the salt will cause the cysts to drop off your fish.


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## crazy quattro (Mar 22, 2005)

wait, do i add this even if my fish are for fresh water? I think i might be in the wrong section here?


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I was refering to freshwater ich yes... do the above


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## svolk (Apr 5, 2005)

crazy quattro @ Wed Apr 13 said:


> I tried using Nox-Ich but it doesnt seem to be working too well. My temp is at 84 degrees... should i raise it even more?1?!


During my first nasty bout with ich I was using Rid Ich, and I had 2 loaches at the time. The loaches didn't make it, once they had ich, it continued to get worse even during treatment. 

Now this 2nd case of ich that I just dealt with, I used Nox Ich, and it seemed to work much better than Rid Ich. Nox Ich was recommended by a fish store that we've found that we're pretty sure we can trust. I was also careful to keep the temp around 82-84, which helped a lot. Maybe the Nox Ich is not as effective with a sensitive fish like loaches, but I had success with it. Of course, I caught the ich outbreak right away, though. The first bout got out of control before I realized what was going on, so I lost half of my tank. Now I know what I'm dealing with if it comes back. 

I hope you don't lose any more fish, but hopefully you're at least learning from the experience.


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## Seamay (Jan 26, 2005)

sounds to me that theres more than one way to skin a parasite


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