# Help Please? Weird white thing on fish.



## user27

Yesterday I noticed this weird white thing just in front of my comet's tail.

I have had the fish in a bowl for nearly six years and I have not had any problems until now.

I have a plant in the bowl which outgrows it every year or so at which point I cut it right down again.

Every month or so I move the fish into a kitchen mixing bowl, scrub the green stuff off fish bowl and replace the water in the bowl with fresh tap water; I then wait for the chlorine to eveporate before I put the fish back.

I have also noticed that it is leaning to one side and forward a bit, so maybe something to do with the swim bladder? In addition I have not seen it swim below the surface since I noticed the white lump.

Does anybody know what it is? Is there anything I can do?

Thanks, Alex


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## platies pwn

This is unrelated,but Goldfish need at least a 55 gallon tank to live in.


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## bmlbytes

It appears to be a tumor. It may be swimming funny because the growth is right where the tail meets the body. 

Its not fluffy or cottony is it? That would indicate a fungus, which is much easier to treat than a tumor.


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## TheOldSalt

Hmmm... a fluid buildup around a wound, I think.
You either do nothing and wait, or pop it with a needle.


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## user27

*Thanks*

I don't much fancy the needle idea, sounds like I could do more damage than good?

I like the sound of fluid buildup (if you know what I mean) and it does kind of look fluffy; how can I tell which of these answers is the right one for sure?

I changed the water when I noticed this and the fish is swimming normally again today; could it he some buildup in the water?

On an unrelated note, why does a goldfish need 55 gallons exactly?

Thanks again


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## bmlbytes

Goldfish get up to 14 inches in length. At this point your fish is pretty stunted. This stunting can cause some serious health problems. A 55 gallon tank allows a goldfish to grow to its adult size. With a proper size tank, and proper water care, a goldfish can reach 14 inches and live 20 years. 

I am honestly surprised that it has lived 6 years in that bowl.


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## Betta man

get a 20 gal. he'll get too large for the bowl.


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## bmlbytes

After 6 years, he wont grow much more. He has already been stunted. A larger tank would help keep him healthy, but he wont grow anymore.


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## user27

*Still swimming funny*

I have done the waiting and the white thing has completely gone; there is no sign of it.

However, I still don't think the fish is swimming as normal; it spends a lot of time at the surface and I only ever see it dive down below the surface when it's actually swimming at a downward angle. It never comes to rest without floating back to the surface.

As the photos can't really show how the fish swims I have put a video up here:
http://youtu.be/5XgVmQpQdhM

Thanks very much for your help on this matter, 

Alex







On an unrelated note, I had this fish (which I rescued from a fireworks night fairground after it had closed and the bloke still had the poor guy in a bag).

For the first year or so I kept it in a bowl of about half this diameter and as it got bigger I bought this much larger bowl; the fish didn't grow any more into the big bowl and has remained about the same size for the past five years.

It takes me 28 x 1L jugs to fill the big bowl and you get about 4L to one Gallon(US) so I have about 7 Gallons in there; for your 55 Gallon suggestion I would have to have about 8 times as much water as I do right now? That would be at least a four foot tank for one gold fish!

Have you ever heard the term "gold fish bowl"? I think the idea is to keep it in a bowl such that you don't end up with a 14 inch fish in the living room.


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## Fishpunk

user27 said:


> Have you ever heard the term "gold fish bowl"? I think the idea is to keep it in a bowl such that you don't end up with a 14 inch fish in the living room.


Using sarcasm on people who have been keeping fishes since decades before you were born makes you appear especially arrogant. There are a lot of common misconceptions and blatant falsehoods in fishkeeping that are perpetuated by people who put profits over the health of the fish. 

Keeping goldfish in bowls is one of these, as is a fish growing to the size of the container. The internal organs of the animal continue to grow despite the container size, and that puts a lot of stress on the animal. You could be kept alive inside a 3x3 foot box but you would not be in the best of health.


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## bmlbytes

I don't think most places are calling them goldfish bowls anymore. Goldfish do not belong in bowls. They are usually referred to as betta bowls now. Yes a 55g is a 4 foot tank. I think a 20 or 30 gallon tank would probably be ok for this fish since its obviously stunted. I would just get a larger bucket and fill the aquarium from tap, using a dechlorinator to make it safe.


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## user27

*The matter at hand*

Fishpunk, I don't mean to offend; after having the little guy for over six years I suddenly find I'm on a steep learning curve here. The concept of keeping a gold fish in anything other than a bowl is a new one on me. If it's so bad for my fish then how come it has been healthy for so long?

This is all useful information for me but is there any chance I could divert the thread back in the direction of my original concern? The fish is still bobbing up to the surface like a ping pong ball.

Thanks, Alex


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## bmlbytes

user27 said:


> Fishpunk, I don't mean to offend; after having the little guy for over six years I suddenly find I'm on a steep learning curve here. The concept of keeping a gold fish in anything other than a bowl is a new one on me.


Alas, we hear this way too often. The fish may appear to be healthy, and it may be well cared for, but the fish will not live nearly as long of a life. You have a fairly large bowl. If it were kept in anything smaller, I would not have expected it to live this long. People who keep them in those small bowls typically cant get them to live longer than 3 to 5 years. The larger bowls will allow you slightly more time. A goldfish that lives in a proper aquarium or pond can live to be 25. 

The average comet goldfish, if allowed to live in a large pond can reach sizes like this.











> This is all useful information for me but is there any chance I could divert the thread back in the direction of my original concern? The fish is still bobbing up to the surface like a ping pong ball.


Do you have a test kit? Test the nitrate levels. If you have them test ammonia and nitrite as well. Often times infections like that are caused by poor water quality. Goldfish will survive in very bad water, but they will get sick too. Goldfish are also very messy (part of the reason they need such a big aquarium). Bad water could be the source of all your problems.


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## user27

*Testing*

I do not have any testing stuff; I thought that kind of thing was reserved for expensive tropical tanks and not your average goldfish.

If I change 100% of the water then surely it will bring the ph to normal anyway?

I have never changed the water more than once a month; why would the fish suddenly start making more mess?

Anybody know where I can get a bigger bowl? The one I have is roughly 350mm dia.

Thanks again


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## bmlbytes

user27 said:


> I do not have any testing stuff; I thought that kind of thing was reserved for expensive tropical tanks and not your average goldfish.


If your not willing to spend a few dollars on your fish, then I cant help you anymore. Goldfish need just as much care as the next fish. If you don't have it, you should have a filter on your bowl/aquarium as well.



user27 said:


> If I change 100% of the water then surely it will bring the ph to normal anyway?


pH is not the problem. I am willing to bet nitrates are the problem. 



user27 said:


> I have never changed the water more than once a month; why would the fish suddenly start making more mess?


Once a month? I'm surprised you dont have problems more often. 

Lets put it this way, if your fish makes 10ppm of nitrates every month, and you change 50% of the water, then there is 5ppm left behind from the previous month, and during the next month the fish makes 10ppm again. You now have 15ppm of nitrates at the end of the month. You change the water again, and now there are 7.5ppm. The fish makes 10ppm again, and you have 17.5 ppm. I think you see where this is going. After a while the nitrates build up. The trick is to change water more often than the fish can make nitrate. Most people change some of their water weekly, or much more water twice a week. The only way to test to see if the water is ok is with a test kit. 




user27 said:


> Anybody know where I can get a bigger bowl? The one I have is roughly 350mm dia.


At this point, I would upgrade to an aquarium instead. A 20g long would be my recommendation. 



user27 said:


> Thanks again


I hope I could help.


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## emc7

The "amount of mess' is directly proportional to how much food goes in, so as a fish grows, you feed it more and it puts more waste in the water. Think cow patty vs. bird poop.


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## user27

*Testing*

If it's a few quid then I'm willing! Testing equipment sounds expensive no?

I change 100% of the water every month so there is no build up to worry about.

What would "test kit" consist of exactly?

The noise and appearance of a pump / filter would not go down well with my woman so I can't really do that. I don't fill the bowl right to the top so the ratio of surface area vs volume of water is very high. I also have the plant sucking up nasty stuff and kicking out oxygen.

I don't have the space for a tank; I can only fit the large bowl because it is much smaller at the bottom; I do actually have a nice 5 foot tank in the loft, with all the gear from salt water stuff I had as a kid, but no space to set it up these days.

Your advice is much appreciated.

emc, I have been feeding the fish the same ammount of the same food for five years so this has not changed.


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## user27

*This?*

Is it just this I need?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tetra-Aquar...s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1323735709&sr=1-17


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## bmlbytes

Here is the testing equipment I would recommend. 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwa...5NCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323753068&sr=8-1
It does cost significantly more, but it is much more accurate, and has all the tests you need. The one you linked has 3 of the 4 tests. GH, KH, and Chlorine are not really needed (if you dechlorinate your water). It is missing ammonia. If you want to save the money though, go ahead and buy the 6 pound one. It should suffice.

As for a filter, there are many options for a bowl that are not very invasive. For example, this undergravel filter.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interpet-06...3OGK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323753207&sr=8-1
It is operated by air pump. A small tube will stick up in the bowl, but thats it. It will require that a cheap air pump is connected to it. The air pump will help in 2 ways. It will power the filter, and it will oxygenate the tank. Both will help with the water quality. An air filter should make no noise at all if it is not touching something. It will get very loud if it comes in contact with anything, but as long as you separate it, it should not be noisy. You can also hide it by buying a large tube of air hose. That way you can put it in a cabinet or underneath something. 

As for your 100% water changes, they may be doing more harm than good. If you can, I would bring it down to 75% or 50% and do them at least every 2 weeks. If you do 100% water changes, you remove the bacteria that turn deadly ammonia into much less deadly nitrate. Nitrate is deadly in high quantities, but ammonia is deadly in very low quantities. When you get a few minutes, read this article. It explains the Nitrogen cycle and why its important. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html


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## Fishpunk

It comes down to this. You do not have the ability to adequately house the fish for optimal health. In my opinion, your best option is to find somebody with a pond and let the goldfish live there. In its place, there are a number of fish that do perfectly fine in small quarters provided they have heat and some kind of filtration. Betta, least killifish, a couple of male guppies, a small group of ricefish, some bumblebee gobies to name just a few of the options. If you are limited for space, you really need to have fish that stay very small.


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## user27

*Excessive*

I have had full on tanks with under gravel filtering, pumped filters and tide systems along with various types of fish, warm and cold water, breeding tanks, fresh and salt water. I still have most of the gear in the loft for it but all these things are excessive for what is simply a goldfish bowl; if I wanted a fish tank I would have one but we wanted a nice bowl with a goldfish that for many years has given most of the benefits of an aqurium without the pump noise and the hassle.

Your comments are understandably from the perspective of an aquarium owner and you're clearly very knowledgable on the subject; but that's not what this is.

The fact that my fish has been fine for six years shows without question that pumps and filters are not needed for a goldfish bowl; there is no reason for the water to have suddenly become toxic but I will get the tests and check anyway.

If I were trying to build up a little eco system, then yes, I would change 25% of the water each week but I'm not; I just swap out all the water before anything can build up in there.

All I wanted was some freindly assistance in working out what is wrong with the little guy and all you want to do is tell me that my setup, which again has been working fine for six years, is not suitable for my fish?

I will get the kit, check the water, and post the results but I would really rather know what is wrong with the fish than get endless feedback about how the bowl is the problem. I have seen people successfully keep goldfish in much smaller bowls and I did ask where I could get an even bigger one without any response!

If you actually wanted to help people and improve the lives of fish everywhere you could try helping people rather than telling everybody with a fish bowl that it's the work of the devil?

------------------> NEWS FLASH <-------------------
Goldfish bowls work really well with goldfish in them.
There is no need to filter water and force air into them.
1 study has shown goldfish can live 6+ years anyway.
------------------------------------------------------------

And yes, I am done with my rant now, thanks for reading.

Alex


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## bmlbytes

Newsflash.....

Your fooling yourself by ignoring the helpful comments people are making. Real life has shown that a healthy goldfish will live 25 years, not 6. 

If you want help, we are offering it. Why ask the questions if you're not ready for the answer? Your rant is not surprising. There are a lot of people that are very misinformed about their fish. They all seem to do the same thing, ask questions, but when they dont like the answer they get angry. It's not our fault you didn't do your research prior to buying a tiny bowl for your fish.

You also have not supplied us with any of the information we asked for about your fish. If you want help, you have to supply us with the data, not just the problem. That would be like calling your doctor on the phone, telling him you feel sick, and then not even explaining symptoms or living conditions. How is he supposed to diagnose your issue with no data?

You are ranting at a bunch of people who really want to help you and your fish. They have told you that a goldfish is not the correct choice for your bowl; a betta would be better; and that it would be good to test the water to rule that out as your problem. Until you can offer more data, we will tell you what we have seen hundreds of other people do. You're not the first one to ask this question on this forum, and you wont be the last one to ignore our help, and eventually kill your fish.


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## Fishpunk

Goldfish kept in bowls are susceptible to swim bladder disorders and finrot. That is probably what your fish is experiencing.

These folks below are also in need of your news flash.



> The reality is that goldfish are among the most demanding freshwater fish in the hobby, especially with regard to aquarium space and filtration. Some would argue that they aren't particularly good aquarium fish at all, and should certainly never be kept in an unfiltered goldfish bowl. - Dr. Neale Monks, Editor WetWebMedia online magazine, Frequent contributor Tropical Fish Hobbyist





> Top goldfish myths
> 
> They do well in bowls. Oh no they don't! Goldfish need a large tank with a good filter. - Neale Monks


http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm




> Q: I have a 29 gallon Wal-Mart tank that used to house a variety of fish. Due to a bit of a catastrophe, I am down to 4 goldfish.
> A: This is or will be too many for this volume...
> 
> and
> 
> (29 gal)...is too over-populated with just two of the goldfish
> 
> - Bob Fenner, renowned aquarium expert, author of The Conscientious Aquarist





> A bowl really isn't a viable container for a goldfish.
> 
> Russell Taylor, member of the board of the Goldfish Society of America


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## user27

*Fixed*

Yes, I would very much like you to get in contact with those individuals and correct them. If you're not willing then please provide me with contact details to that end.

My fish has stopped swimming funny now; guess it was just a passing symptom of that white thing he had on his tail.

I think you will agree that the amount of water needed for a fish is calculated by the impact of that fish on water quality; however that data covers goldfish living with other fish and as such does not take into account that goldfish are far more tolerant to the chemicals they produce than other fish may be.

As for keeping different fish in my bowl; are there any other fish that I could put in there? I don't know of any that would not require heat, filters, dechlorination of the water, salt water or all of the above to survive.

I will still get the testing kit and check everything is ok but I will essentially just be testing tap water given the regular 100% water changes.

I guess you think you're helping so thanks anyway.

On a completely unrelated note and heavily linked to my goal of getting goldfish back into bowls in kids bedrooms around the world; how sure are you that a pair of goldfish in a bowl such as my one would die before an identical pair in a large tank along with all the extras you suggest? Care to place a bet on that?

Alex


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## bmlbytes

I would easily win that bet. My roommate and I are actually considering setting up a "pseudo-pond" on our patio. Assuming we stay in this apartment longer than your fish stays alive, I guarantee the several goldfish I would buy for it would outlive your one goldfish in a bowl.

I dont know what your deal is. We have provided evidence from both our own personal experience, and from the professionals, and you still refuse to believe it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

If you need further proof, you actually can send the WetWebMedia people an email. They answer several questions a day, so if you send them an email, you might actually get your question answered.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm


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## phlyergirl

Since we have a real expert here, what exactly is it about goldfish that makes them better suited to unfiltered tiny bowls than other fish, since you say you can't think of another fish that would do well in that kind of setup?


/sarcasm


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## bmlbytes

user27 said:


> As for keeping different fish in my bowl; are there any other fish that I could put in there? I don't know of any that would not require heat, filters, dechlorination of the water, salt water or all of the above to survive.


Considering chlorine is a deadly poison to fish, you should always dechlorinate or age your water. But that is as simple as a couple of drops of a cheap liquid from the pet store.

They sell these bowls as betta bowls now. If you will put anything in them, put a betta in them. I would still recommend heat, but they sell so many inconspicuous heaters and filters now. If you can keep the water in the mid to high 70s using the thermostat of your house, then a heater might not be needed. A betta should live for 3 to 5 years.


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## emc7

100% water changes are the way to go in a container with no filter whatsoever. You have to be careful to match pH, hardness, salinity, and temp. to avoid shock, but it really is the only way to get to 0 everything. But only once a month? I'd do twice a week. The ancient Japanese fish keepers did water changes twice a day.

Yes, feeder goldfish are somewhat more tolerant of abuse than most fish as we have selective bred the survivors of atrocious treatment for millennia. Still not a good reason to abuse them, IMO. 

Watch the fish, if it is lethargic, cloudy-eyed, if the fins are frayed, the gills red you need to change something. If you keep a fish for years, you should know when it is suffering.


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## Fishpunk

I understand Troll-fish live comfortably in bowls.

There is no point in continuing this thread.


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## LucyGoosey

Hey so I just wanted to say that it's not your fault you didn't know, this is an all too common misconception that is widely propogated by people looking to sell these poor guys. they are considered disaposable. It's sad.

Well, goldfish make a lot of waste, need a very very large aquarium and of course do better with friends in the tank. if you enjoy your fish maybe you'd enjoy getting a 30 gallon and stocking it with a few other fish?

It's not ridiculously expensive, I just got a 30 gallon with stand and all the fixings for $100 bucks used. People will go lower because the big tanks are harder to sell.

I think you should save up and think of buying a bigger tank. It's not just for the benefit of the fish but it is fun!! 

best of luck!


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## bmlbytes

Lucy, he has a much larger tank, but is unwilling to use it for his fish. 

I understand that people are often fooled by propogated myths, but its one thing to accept the truth and try and fix it, and an entirely different thing to get angry at those who try to help. At this point the OP has fooled himself into thinking that they are correct and that everyone else is out to make problems for him.


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## mousey

I have just read through this thread and have come to the conclusion that the person with the goldfish in the bowl is either pig headed or a troll. Apparently he has had other experiences over the years with tropical fish but all in all is coming across as someone that has set us up to waste our time. Regulars, you have done a good job of explaining what the fish needs and I don't think you need to add any more.
just my two cents.


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## LucyGoosey

bmlbytes said:


> Lucy, he has a much larger tank, but is unwilling to use it for his fish.
> 
> I understand that people are often fooled by propogated myths, but its one thing to accept the truth and try and fix it, and an entirely different thing to get angry at those who try to help. At this point the OP has fooled himself into thinking that they are correct and that everyone else is out to make problems for him.


Ohh I didnt realize that he knew better.

Well in that case, the vid you posted of the goldfish going around in circles is really sad to me. That is not big enough for him and he looks unhappy. Fish can look unhappy, it's a thing!  lol


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## user27

*Unhappy*

Oh, so many unhappy people to respond to I don't know where to start; from the top I guess:

Lucy,

If you bothered to read the thread then you would know that he did look unhappy swimming in circles there, and that is why I uploaded the video showing it!

I have put a new 1080p video up now that he is better; you even get to see me holding the camera. I know exactly what you mean about happy looking fish: http://youtu.be/aDtjFM0ulHQ

Many people have said how we have a massive bowl for such a small fish; including a number of experianced aquarium owners. You must consider that this is not one of the tiny bowls that you can buy; it's really quite large and too heavy to lift when full.

mousey,

I'm just pig headed, not a troll.

I agree the regulars have provided a lot of useful information.

bml,

I'm not angry, just trying to help the next guy who posts about his sick fish from getting put off and not helping the fish.

emc,

Thanks for your comments, I will change the water more often and as advised on here before I have ordered a testing kit to check everything is ok.

Please see video above, "watch the fish, if it is lethargic, cloudy-eyed, if the fins are frayed, the gills red" then let me know if you think I need to change something.

bml,

As I said before, I do age the water.

Again b3ta require a lot more stuff like haaters and filters so not ideal.

phlyergirl,

You clearly didn't bother to read the thread either; it's not a tiny bowl.

As above "goldfish are somewhat more tolerant of abuse than most fish as we have selective bred the survivors of atrocious treatment for millennia".

bmlbytes,

I was looking to compare tank to bowl really; I could get my tank down from the loft and set it up alongside a tiny bowl I have that's about 7 inch diameter for compariuson.

A


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## mousey

You know, Goldfish are sometimes susceptible to a virus that causes white lumps and bumps on the body if they get stressed or the immune system is run down. The fish in the video looks to be healthy while somewhat undersized for 6 year old, but it is hard to tell from the video what size everything is.
I am all about life enrichment for fish-- they need a reason for their existence and i don't think going around in circles is very stimulating. My own golfdfish have a few live plants( yes i know you have one) as well as some large flat glass rocks to pick among as well as an ornament like a hollow log.
They like to chase each other through it. it is open on both ends and the underneath so that if they get too big for it they wil not get stuck.
Even my bettas in individual 1/2 gallon bowls each get a stone and a small java plant to explore.
I would think that cleaning the bowl should be at least weekly. I have in the past kept goldfish in bowls that were unfiltered and too small for them( going back 40 years). I have found that filtration and a couple of plants plus regular weekly water changes is better for them.
Build up of nitrates in an established tank will cause health problems and stunting. Water changes once a month means that you automatically have ammonia and nitrites in the water, which again are toxic to the fish. weekly water changes would probably do away with the toxins.

I have experimented at length with different types of containers, filters and bubbling systems. with bettas- there again they can tolerate a lot of pollution. However even with all my experimenting, if the ammonia levels go up-- which they automatically do over a week I do the water changes and continue my experiments.By day 10 in any uncycled system the ammonia level is at hugely toxic levels, and it will stay that way for a good number of weeks. The only way to speed up a cycling process in a jar or bowl is to add a bubbler, do water changes and NEVER clean the sides or bottom of the container.
Please up your water changes to weekly. We will all feel better!
I rescued a goldfish that had been kept in a 5 gallon tank. He only grew fist size. he only got water changes every couple of months but had a filter. I put him in a 15 gallon overfiltered tank and his tail and fins started to grow very long but alas not his body. I had him for about 5 years before he died- he was 8 when I got him. I think he would have lived longer if he had been treated better when he was a little tad.I also got him a companion- he killed the first one but liked the second one. The baby goldfish would sleep between his front fins. My current goldfish snuggle together at night.
All about life enrichmentt.
Keeping fish is a full time commitment and can get to be time consuming and expensive-- but it also is very rewarding.


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## bmlbytes

user27 said:


> bml,
> 
> I'm not angry, just trying to help the next guy who posts about his sick fish from getting put off and not helping the fish.


I am not putting you off. I am trying to help you. What your fish NEEDS is a larger aquarium. You can do things to make him survive this bowl but he won't thrive in it. Read the experts opinions that were linked.



> bml,
> 
> As I said before, I do age the water.
> 
> Again b3ta require a lot more stuff like haaters and filters so not ideal.


If you're not willing to spend a little money to help your pet, you do not belong owning a pet. If the appearance of it is the problem, they make heaters that stick to the bottom of the bowl. They also make mini canister filters and undergravel filters. There are solutions. Also your goldfish needs filtration just as much as a betta.



> bmlbytes,
> 
> I was looking to compare tank to bowl really; I could get my tank down from the loft and set it up alongside a tiny bowl I have that's about 7 inch diameter for compariuson.
> 
> A


If you are willing to get a tank, there are many beautiful options out there. The cheapest option is a 10 or 15 gallon square aquarium. But those can be a bit ugly to many. You could look at bowfront or corner aquariums. Even column or hex if you want to put it in the middle of the room. A personal belief of mine, is that the aquarium should be a centerpiece in a room. Buy some plants and rocks and make it look really good. If you do I'm sure both you and your other half will be happy you did. Goldfish are beautiful fish, and you have a very good looking comet. It would look even better in the proper environment.


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## Sorafish

To be fair, 'noisy' things like the air pumps of filters are really easy to quiet. Take a wash cloth, fold it, and place it under it, so that its not coming in contact with anything but the cloth.
And, I'm sorry, if you or your GF don't like the sound of running water (which is really all you hear with a filter otherwise) well...Get a cat. They're less work than fish. >>

BTW, what kinda plant do you have in there? I've been having a heck of a time trying to get plants to grow in my tank. ><


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## user27

*Happy Fish Now*

Fish is back on full form now; afetr I change the water he usually moves the stones around in the bowl after and he had not done that until now, he also plays with bubbles and generally looks interested in what is going on if people are around.

I have played the quiet pump game before; in the end I hung a string from a hook on the wood in the roof in my loft, tied a spring to the string and hung the pumps under that spring; I then ran air pipes down to my tanks from there. I suffer from home audio addiction and outside noise however quiet is not something I would accept; not to mention that I would have to have wires and pips out the top of my bowl which the Mrs would object to.

I spent years buying plants only for them to die (or the fish eat them) in a couple of months. I have no idea what this plant is but I have had it for years now and I have to cut it back every couple of months during summer. If you want some I would be happy to post some to you next time I cut it back.

My fish does not NEED more water; the little guy has not grown any bigger since I gave him four times more water with this bowl so he is not going to grow any bigger in any amount of water.

A goldfish does not "need filtration just as much as betta"; as established above and shown by the age of my fish, goldfish are much more hardy.

I have tanks but I'm not willing to use them. There are very few beautiful options out there especially when it comes to smaller tanks; the large blown glass goldfish bowl is by far the best to look at. You don't seriously think those nasty plastic octagonal things or bi-orbs look nice do you?

Mousey, thanks for the first actual diagnosis anybody has bothered to post; it sounds like that is what he had but there is no way he could have picked up a virus not having contact with any other fish or fish keeping equipment for years is there?

I will indeed change the water more frequently but I will be interested to test the water bi weekly for a month first and see what the results are for what I have been doing.

Alex


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## bmlbytes

user27 said:


> My fish does not NEED more water; the little guy has not grown any bigger since I gave him four times more water with this bowl so he is not going to grow any bigger in any amount of water.
> 
> A goldfish does not "need filtration just as much as betta"; as established above and shown by the age of my fish, goldfish are much more hardy.


I give up. Have fun killing your fish. It's you who will deal with the consequences. 



user27 said:


> I have tanks but I'm not willing to use them. There are very few beautiful options out there especially when it comes to smaller tanks; the large blown glass goldfish bowl is by far the best to look at. You don't seriously think those nasty plastic octagonal things or bi-orbs look nice do you?


Who said anything about bi-orbs? Those are stupid in my opinion.

There are bowfront









Column









Corner









And many more options to fit almost any house. And yes, I think they look much better than a bowl.


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## user27

*Tanks*

I'm afraid all of those options look awful to me me (and without me leading the witness my woman agreed); why do they all insist on having big lumps of black plastic on them?

When I was buying tanks I always went for the least intrusive ones that just show off the fish. i.e. just five panes of glass glued together at the corners; when I needed light units on top I made them by bending curves into sheet metal and painted matt or gloss black finish with silver reflective paint inside before fitting uv tubes.

Alex


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## bmlbytes

They do sell "naked" rimless aquariums. 









They put the plastic rims on them to give them support, so they can use thinner, cheaper glass. The plastic hoods on all of those can be replaced by much better looking lights.

What I'm hearing from you though, is that you don't care about the fish. You really care about how well it looks. If you cared about the fish at all, you would sacrifice a little bit to make sure it is healthy.


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## user27

*Tanks*

You can hear what you like mate; the fact is that a goldfish in a large goldfish bowl works really well and it has done for hundreds if not thousands of years.

As I have said a number of times now; I already have tanks and I am quite happy with what they look like given that I picked them or built them myself.

The reason I'm not using a tank is because goldfish don't need heaters, filters or that much water. A bowl is a great choice because it offers a very large surface area to water volume ratio; thus keeping oxygen levels high in the water without the need for an air stone.

Alex


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## bmlbytes

Fine. I give up. You obviously don't care enough about your fish to do any research yourself, and are so ignorant you refuse to hear the truth when its slapped in your face. 

Just remember this, when it dies at an age of less than 10 years, realize that it did not live a full life, and you are to blame for that.


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## iheartfish:)

People have kept slaves for hundreds of years. The ancient Egyptians wouldn't have had their beautiful pyramids without them. However, is it right? No.

You have kept your goldfish in a bowl for some years. You wouldn't have your beautiful bowl without it. Wait... You would. So then why torture the fish if NOTHING good comes out of it, when there are plenty of alternatives? You really can't argue your case all that much.


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## Guest

I have to get into this. user27: You are ignorant about goldfish. Read this http://www.goodgoldfishcare.com/goldfish-bowls

It actually states what everyone on here has been saying.

I have three goldfish and they are in a 10 gallon right now. They were in a 55 gallon tank, but I had to move them as one of them was picking on my sick clown loach. I am going to have to clean the 10 gallon once a week or sooner, depending on how the filtration does.

Oh also bettas can survive in very little water, goldfish cannot. So bettas are more hardy than goldfish. I have two bettas, doubletail and halfmoon. My halfmoon has never been sick. Bettas can thrive in one gallon tanks, goldfish cannot.

Anyway I hope that your goldfish survives, but I am afraid that bmlbytes is correct: it won't survive pass 10 years if that. It may not even survive another year or two. I am betting in two years.


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