# Finally have fish; got a problem



## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

I was able to add some fish to my fully cycled ten gallon this week. I have a lovely betta and two ghost shrimp, who seem to be doing very well. However I wanted to finish stocking my tank with neons, and that has NOT gone well. My problem, I believe, is our LFS. I live in a small town and there is one LFS and Walmart and that is it. I went on their delivery day and bought 6 neons. By evening, 2 were dead. I got replacements for those plus two more the next day (sat) and today (sun) 5 are dead (one or two of whom looked like they had white patches like possible neon fish disease)! That leaves me 3 neons...

I have tested the water and it's fine, no ammonia or nitrites. I can't test for nitrates but those can't be high since I did a 90% water change before I added fish. The ph of our water here is high, 8.0, which I would expect to stress but not kill the fish. (I was planning on bringing that down by gradual addition of RO water with water changes...)

The upshot is that I'm thinking that I just might not be able to keep the neons available to me through the LFS or Walmart (which is even worse), and that maybe I should try a few livebearers instead. But what if these three live? Also, the biggest one was really aggressive with some of the smaller ones and they weren't schooling well to begin with. (Which I thought was weird, aren't neons supposed to be peaceful). Anyway this is way too long...

I need neon advice!


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## Imbrium (Feb 7, 2005)

Neons can be very sensitive. I wouldn't keep them with a betta anyways. My brother tried it once and the neons became betta food. I would take back the neons and get a few livebearers (but not longfinned male guppies). 
Is that your betta on your avatar? He's gorgeous.


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

That, or the neons might nip the betta's fins to pieces. That wouldn't be fun either. I've never kept a betta with other fish, so I'm sure everyone else here would have better suggestions on roommates for them, but either way I would think tetras would be a lose-lose situation


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## Ilyena (May 1, 2005)

My 2 bettas (male and female) live peacefully together with neon tetras, zebra danios, black skirt tetras, harlequin rasboras, platies and a fully grown SAE. No one is nipping the fins off my male betta and they all get together just fine. But I suppose it depends on the temperament of the fish.


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

Neons prefer much cooler water than bettas, that might be one of the reasons why they didn't make it. Livebearers like guppys and platys tend to be too active and start to stress the betta out. I would get some cherry shrimps or a few more of ghost shrimp.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

The 8.0 pH is why they didn't make it. I'd guess that the ones still alive in the store only survived because the lfs has some tanks set up for fish like sensitive neons. 
One of the risks associated with buying fish on "new fish day' at the store is that the fish which can't take the jump to your local water chemistry will die in your tanks instead of the lfs's tanks. Also, you might get fish which got diseased by being banged up on the trip.
There are some advantages to buying on new arrival day, of course, but the risks are greater, I think.

Some stores have "intake tanks" set up with soft water and lower pH into which the new sensitive fish are put upon arrival, in order to cut down on losses. They are then either kept there permanently, or gradually moved to other tanks with local water. It is important that you find out what the water conditions are in a tank of sensitive fish to prevent pH shock when you take them home.


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## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. I'm sure that this lfs uses local water for all its tanks (I asked), and it does not use an "intake" tank. It is probable that ph shock is why so many of them died, now that I think about it, although from what I'm reading it seems it would have happened either there or at here in my tank. I wonder if that is why they never have neons the second part of the week? They all die or are bought to replace those that die in local tanks. So sad, and stupid. They had at least 50...

The survivors are looking pretty good, and I'm loathe to take them back (to certain death) but I don't really want to get any more from the LFS, either. Maybe I should try Walmart? The thing about Walmart is that it has a 60 day instead of 3 day guarantee. Or maybe I should just get store credit for the deceased and wait to see how these others do?

I think aggressiveness is very much a personality thing; this betta is somewhat aggressive to new fish, but it's more show than serious chasing and nipping so I'll think we'll be ok. And yes, he's my avatar.  But what's up with my aggressive neon? He's still chasing the others around.

Oh, and my water temp is 76 night and 78-80 day.


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

I keep my neons in a steady 80-82 degree tank they are fine, with a betta I might add. I have always had problems keeping them alive, usually like last time I buy more than I want and see who survives. I bought 20 and ended up with 15. If you really want them just keep trying, unless of course they are expensive. (Ours are less than a dollar)


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## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

Lexus, what's your ph?


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

At one point it was almost 8 in one tank and in another it was as low as 6.5. 
Maybe try black neons?


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## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

hmmm, I guess I mean what is the ph of your tapwater? Because that is where I have to start. I would assume it's around 8.0 like mine?


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## Yankee boy (Jun 5, 2005)

Hmm my neon tetras are pretty darn hardy because when hurricane Ivan came along I evacuated for 2 weeks. I came back and filter had been off for that time. Lots of algae growth and the water was cloudy. The power continued to be off for about 1 more week. O ya and all my fish lived including the neon tetras.


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## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

I'm thinking now that it was a very bad batch of neons at the LFS. I'm pretty sure a bunch of them had columnaris. It spread to my betta and in spite of my TLC and meds he died!! I am soooo P.O.'d. But then, I'm the one without a quarantine tank. 

I have one neon that has survived and he seems very stable and healthy, so I'm inclined to think if he survives a while longer I could probably get him some buddies without a problem as long as they come from a healthy batch. 

BTW, what are the refund/replacement policies of your local LFS in the case of fish death? Mine is 3 days with reciept, but I lost the reciept and I got a real hassel from the owner (even though she remembers selling me the fish AND I brought back the dead ones).


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2005)

yankee, if you think neons are hardy....you're wrong
neons are very sensative fish and often hard to keep alive


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## Imbrium (Feb 7, 2005)

Oh, Magdelaine. I'm so sorry. :console: Columnaris sucks.
I can't believe they gave you a problem just because you don't have the receipt. And she remembers selling you the fish?! That's horrible. Is there any other fish store you could go to instead? That one obviously doesn't deserve your business.


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## Magdelaine (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks for the sympathy... it was pretty awful. And so fast!

The only other store in town is Walmart, which has obvious shock/care issues of its own. The neons there are twice as expensive ($1.99!) but come with a 90 day money back and/or replacement guarantee.

That may be my next option.


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## fishboy (Feb 26, 2005)

i'd say look away from neon...they're becoming to common...and get a interesting hard fish


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

In my opinion neons are the hardest fish to kill, high temperature is the easiest way to kill neons.


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

Well Finland may be getting better stock because over here its harder than hell to get them to stay alive


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

Or maybe it is the tapwater?Usually the neonsin my local shop are brought from Singapore or bred in Finland, how about in the states?


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