# Plant fertilizers needed



## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Hey there,
I just finally got my plants setup about 3 weeks ago and CO2 setup about 1.5 weeks ago. I currently use flourish and flourish Iron for my plants fertilizer. 
Poking around the forums, i then read something about potassium? Phosphates? etc???

Then i went onto seachem's website to look at which fertilizers that had. 
So i just wanted to confirm. I need a total of 5 fertilizers?

Flourish (already have)
Flourish Iron (already have)
Flourish Potassium
Flourish Nitrogen
Flourish Phosphorus

did i get everything? Dont want to mess up this time. 
By the way... (wow, that's a lot of stuff for plants).
Adding all those at once wont stress out the fish will it? 
Aren't there some trace elements that are in the water naturally when you do water changes? I do have rather soft water, so i'm going to assume i dont have much minerals in there. 

thanks


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

What kind of lighting do you have? If you dont have algae problems and your plants look healthy you may want to keep it that way....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Most tap water has trace minerals in it, though really soft water has the least Don't plants get enough nitrogen from the fish waste? Phosphates are also in some pH buffers like neutral regulator and blackwater extract. Be careful, too much phosphate can make algae go nuts. I wouldn't even think about adding nitrogen unless you nitrate test reading is zero.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Ownager2004 said:


> What kind of lighting do you have? If you dont have algae problems and your plants look healthy you may want to keep it that way....


I've got the coralife 7600K power compact lighting. I believe it's 130 watts over my 55 gallon tank. My plants look healthy for the most part although i do see a couple of the broad leaf plants that were once really green are starting to lighten up.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

emc7 said:


> Most tap water has trace minerals in it, though really soft water has the least Don't plants get enough nitrogen from the fish waste? Phosphates are also in some pH buffers like neutral regulator and blackwater extract. Be careful, too much phosphate can make algae go nuts. I wouldn't even think about adding nitrogen unless you nitrate test reading is zero.


My water isn't really soft. 
But on a range of Very soft-soft-hard-very hard
My water is soft. I've got a little bit of algae now. I've also got readings on the nitrates of around 20ppm's and sometimes silghtly higher before i do a water change. 

Am i ok doing my regular weekly capfuls of Flourish Iron and regular Flourish?
Are the leaves that are slightly yellowing a sign that i need some potassium? It's not on the new growth that's changing but the older growth. I do want to be careful though since i have have a little bit of algae. At first it was a blood of the brownalgae. But after the plants are in and my Co2 setup, the brown algae has actually slowed down and even receeding, but the spotted green algae along the back wall is starting to come up now. 

thanks for your help.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

Generally it is better to do smaller doses more frequently than large doses once a week. Also the suggested range for NO3 for plants is 10-20 ppm, so you may be able to sqeak by without adding any until your plants grow in a bit more.

As for the rest, I suggest reading:
http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1


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## Guest (May 11, 2006)

Your nitrates look fine so I wouldn't fool with Nitrogen. Get a phosphate test to see if you need to add phosphorus. You may not, but you won't know until you test.

I use Tropica Master Grow for my micros. I also use Flourish Potassium, Flourish Excel, and Flourish Iron. I think yellowing of leaves means a need for Potassium. I add my ferts once a week after the water changes.

I think if you have CO2, you should also be adding ferts. Adding them once a week should be fine.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

I took some pics of the plants that i was looking at that inspired this post. Notice on the 2 broadleaf plants the new stem that's growing out was the same color as the leaves around it, then a couple of days ago it started turning yellow. 



















Then the next one is a plant with smaller leaves. I recall the green color of those leaves a much richer and darker green when they first sprouted out. 










I'm thinking i'm short on potassium. There are also a couple more quicker growing plants that the color isn't as dark of a green as they used to be.
What do you guys think?


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Oh... also noticing some of that hair algae growing on some of my plants as well.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Lets clear up some misconceptions here......again.

Phosphate does not cause algae.....
No water has enough trace elements in it unless the tank is a low light tank
Could be a K deficiency but more likely iron. (You cannot test for Fe accurately).
Adding K wont hurt.........
PO4 and NO3 are directly related and have to be kept in equillibrium. too much PO4 will bottom out No3. Too much No3 will bottom out PO4.
Lack of PO4 usually leads to green spot algae (co2 is key here also).
Hair algae is a result of too much nutrient in the water column and too much light without enough Co2.

Tank specs please.......


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Thanks simpte, I've kept fish for decades, but I'm a noobie on plants. Is there a good way to slowly add plants to a fish tank, or do you have fill your tank with plants and add ferts and Co2 and more light?


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> Lets clear up some misconceptions here......again.
> 
> Phosphate does not cause algae.....
> No water has enough trace elements in it unless the tank is a low light tank
> ...


Tank specs
55 gallon glass tank
Tahitian moon sand
130 Watts Coralife 6700K power compact
DIY CO2

Water 75ppm hardness (soft)
Around 20ppm nitrates
One capful per week of regular flourish
One capful per week of iron

Some brown algae growing on glass before plants. But after plants it has subsided. Now green spot algae on back glass (not heavy, but noticeable). There is also a little hair algae growing on the plant leaves. 

If i'm already adding iron and some of the older leaves are starting to turn yellow, should i try adding some potassium? The new leaves seem ok so far. Dont really have much of an idea what i'm doing here with the plant fertilizers. Appreciate the help.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

goe fertilizes my plants.....lolwhy should i give my money to a chemical company..


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Co2 seems to be your problem. You need a better way to diffuse co2 or need to add another co2 tank to your setup. 55 gallons is really to large to try a diy setup on but I think you can make it work with a little tinkering. Adding more plants is always good  PO4 test kits are very unreliable and not worth the money.


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## Guest (May 13, 2006)

> 55 gallons is really to large to try a diy setup on but I think you can make it work with a little tinkering


Sorry to butt in, but Simpte, what is the best and most effective way to use DIY CO2 on a 55g? What kind of setup would be best?
I am setting up another 55 soon and want CO2, but I don't have the money for a pressurized system.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> Co2 seems to be your problem. You need a better way to diffuse co2 or need to add another co2 tank to your setup. 55 gallons is really to large to try a diy setup on but I think you can make it work with a little tinkering. Adding more plants is always good  PO4 test kits are very unreliable and not worth the money.


Hmm... i've got the Co2 diffused with the open bottle setup. Basically it's a bottled water that i cutout the sides of. The thing is weighed down by sand and rocks and the Co2 tubing goes right into the middle and floats up and collects towards the top of the bottle. Very few bubbles manage to escape. 

I see a few of my plants having the "pearling" effect. 

Is it still possible it's not being diffused properly? There's probably a bubble every 5 seconds.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

That method of diffusion is one of the least effective. Its passive... Also, the surface area of the flat bubble you are creating is no where near the amount of surface area if you had the same amount of gas in small bubbles. Sure the contact time *may* be longer, but once the bottle fills up with gas doesn't the same amount of gas leave that enters?

If you have a cannister filter that is one best methods of diffusion. Simply use an airstone(preferably limewood) and direct the bubbles into the intake. If you dont look into a ceramic disk or sintered glass(not sure if they use these in CO2) diffuser. If thats to expensive then look into a powerhead powered DIY set up.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Ownager2004 said:


> That method of diffusion is one of the least effective. Its passive... Also, the surface area of the flat bubble you are creating is no where near the amount of surface area if you had the same amount of gas in small bubbles. Sure the contact time *may* be longer, but once the bottle fills up with gas doesn't the same amount of gas leave that enters?
> 
> If you have a cannister filter that is one best methods of diffusion. Simply use an airstone(preferably limewood) and direct the bubbles into the intake. If you dont look into a ceramic disk or sintered glass(not sure if they use these in CO2) diffuser. If thats to expensive then look into a powerhead powered DIY set up.


I tried with a regular airstone to get bubbled into the intake but they were having a hard time getting sucked into my canister intake. Will the limewood airstone be better and produce smaller bubbles? 

I'm also sort of nervous about the possibility of the airstone clogging up overtime and if i dont catch it, kablooey all over.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

actually... been thinking... what if i made a hole in the intake strainer and just put the CO2 tube into there directly. Would that work? THe replacement part is only $4.99 if i had to replace it. 
Would that be safe for me soda bottle though? i dont want the thing to suck air out of the bottle and eventually suck the con****tion into the tank if it ever stopped producing CO2 one day.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

I dont know if it would have enough suction to suck the stuff into your tank or not.

Limewood makes smaller bubbles that dont rise to the surface nearly as fast as the bigger normal airstone bubbles. So its much easier for the intake to pull them in.

One reason why a lot of people dont put the airline directly into the intake without bubbling it, is that when the impeller hits a CO2 bubble that big it makes a noise (atleast mine did anyways with my HOB... it gets annoying). Also, just a geuss, but I dont think it would diffuse as well with the big bubbles.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

How about one of these for CO2 diffusion? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7756422259&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

My LFS uses one of these in their heavily planted tank and it seems to work really well for them.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Its a good reactor........
Better for pressurized system.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9751/cid/2328
The best diffusers I have ever used (Part No. AS10) and cheap. Buy 3-5 and change them every 4 months. They are cleanable by soaking in bleach. Pull one out and pop another one in while you're cleaning the old one.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

Alin10123 said:


> Tank specs
> 55 gallon glass tank
> Tahitian moon sand
> 130 Watts Coralife 6700K power compact
> ...


flourish trace.........


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Ok... got the CO2 thing going better now. Plants seem to be doing even better. 

Upon further research i have concluded that the algae growing on some of my plants isn't hair algae but a "fuzz algae" according to some descriptions. I'm still sticking with the CO2 thing and ferts. 

The hair algae was like this whitish greenish color until i messed with the CO2. Now it's turning sort of red. 

Does that mean it's dying off?


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