# Something to think about!!!



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Lochness posted an article a day or two ago " info for beginners and returnees". Old salt then challanged us all to identify the "incorrect advise" given in the article. Got me to thinking about something that has been a "standard" in this hobby for a long time and is now under scrutiny..... Floating the bag to aclimate fish when you get home from the pet shop! New science indicates that it may be best to get the fish out of the bag and into the aquarium immediately... 

What do ya'll think?????


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## lochness (Jan 10, 2006)

ron v said:


> Lochness posted an article a day or two ago " info for beginners and returnees". Old salt then challanged us all to identify the "incorrect advise" given in the article. Got me to thinking about something that has been a "standard" in this hobby for a long time and is now under scrutiny..... Floating the bag to aclimate fish when you get home from the pet shop! New science indicates that it may be best to get the fish out of the bag and into the aquarium immediately...
> 
> What do ya'll think?????



what *new science* - lol sry but i need links of new research and sources to read otherwise it's just rumors 

i'd also not like the aquarium water from the pet stores in my tank - i know that whatever *evil* might lurk would be neglible in a small bag, but a bloom or contagion is possible if some species in my tank is sensitive to anything from a *foreign* tank - i have always floated the bag in a bucket of aquarium water and after 10 minutes, i'd do the little by little water exchange in the bucket - not as long as many suggest but for about 30 minutes as I keep adding aquarium water to be sure the temperature is maintained (i've even placed a submersible heater which is best imo) and then i would use a small fish transport container (similar to that used in pet stores) and then placed the fish in my tank. A little bit of work, but in my view, effective and of minimal risk (this is, of course, if you do not have a quarantine tank to keep the fish in for a few days before introducing it into your main tank).


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I think if I bought a fish from an lfs (which rarely happens) I would use the drip acclimation method. Although most lfs (key word here being local), use the same water you have at home, not all do. I perfer using an empty bucket with an airstone and put the fish with the water in it. Slowly add some tankwater and 15 min later remove 30%. Add more tank water to original level. Repeat for 1 hr. Then I scoop the fish out (hopefully not with a net) and add him into the tank.

Waterchanges every 2-3 weeks? Depends on stocking levels and tank type. I still think once a week a 30% or larger change is best.


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## lochness (Jan 10, 2006)

i will back up my agenda by pointing readers to the following sites in favor of slowly acclimatising new fish:

*Is It Really Necessary To Use A Quarantine Tank?*

From Stan & Debbie Hauter, Your Guide to Saltwater Aquariums.

To better evaluate whether or not it is necessary to use a quarantine tank (QT), first you need to know what one is and what it is used for. This is a tank that is set up independently from an established or main saltwater aquarium, and as the word implies, it is used to "quarantine" any new fish an aquarist has acquired, before introducing them into the main aquarium. The number one reason for quarantining new arrivals for a two to three week period in a QT is to help to prevent the spread of any potential disease a fish may be carrying.

There are those that feel a QT is a waste of time and money, the reason being that as long you have good water quality and a well maintained aquarium, fish can stave off disease, parasites or infections on their own. In many cases, like with bacterial infections, this can be true, but after all the expense and time you have put into your aquarium community, why assume a problem won't spread? Consider this. When dealing with a disease such as saltwater ich, which is commonly associated with stress, that can quickly and easily spread and potentially wipe out a whole fish community in a very short period of time if not treated properly, why take the risk of possibly introducing something like this when it could be avoided by quarantining?

Aside from preventing the spread of potential diseases, QTs have many other benefits.

* A QT is also used as a place to put and treat sick, diseased, harassed or weak fish that need to be removed from the main aquarium.
* If a fish does come down with a disease, it is much easier to control the effectiveness of medications in a QT than it is to treat it in the main aquarium.
* Since many medications can be harmful to live rock, corals or inverts, you won't be able to treat a fish while it is in your main aquarium anyway.
* Some medications can disrupt the biological filter of an aquarium, or even destroy it all together. You can treat in a QT without harming your established aquarium's biological filter base.
* New fish are under the stresses of being transported, which can bring on disease and illness. By placing fish in a QT, this gives them time to recover from any stress, as well as acclimate and adjust to their new surroundings.
* Fish already established in the main aquarium may pick on a new arrival. It's hard enough for new fish to make the adjustments to a new home, and if fish are weakened by the stresses of transport or shipping, it is that much harder for them to fend off aggressors. By placing fish in a QT, they can regain strength and better defend themselves when introduced into your aquarium community.
* Placing fish in a QT gives you the chance to observe them to insure they are healthy and eating properly, and you can learn more about their individual characteristics during the quarantine period at the same time.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/diseasequarqt/a/aa041398.htm

*********************************************


http://petcaretips.net/introduce-new-fish-aquarium.html

http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/introducingnewfish.msnw

http://www.shirleyaquatics.co.uk/pages/marine/introducing_marine_fish.html

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=33

http://www.firsttankguide.net/introduce.php

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/buy-new.htm

http://www.ornamentalfish.org/education/aquariumguide/travelandintro.php

http://www.tetra-fish.co.uk/tetratropical/knowhow2/page3.html

http://www.animed.org/fish_introducing_new_fish.htm

http://faq.thekrib.com/disease-fw.html

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=19

http://www.rspcatas.org.au/asp/content.asp?childID=66&articleID=118

http://w3page.com/fishline/introq.php

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/fishdiseases/a/aa102797_2.htm


there were so many more, but I believe you get the idea.

are there any sites or evidence that suggests just dumping the new fish into the tank is ok? I welcome anyone to post them :fun:


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Let me get to the bottom of this thread. Fish obviously don't like floating around in bags or being tossed around in carrier bags on their journey home. Therefore to keep their stress levels to a minimum it would be wise to get them home quickly and place them in the tank as soon as possible, and then hopefully their stress levels will gradually decrease as they settle into their new surroundings. However, if there is a great difference in water chemistry and temperature between the tank water and the water from the lfs in the bag, then releasing the fish early will create a high amount of stress for the poor animal. So the best thing to do is to release the fish as quickly as possible only if the water from the tank and bag are near in terms of water chemestry and temp. I.E. it's no good floating the fish in the bag for one hour and then sifting water in and out of the bag every few to try aclimatize the fish, no. This will only create unnecessary stress to the poor things. 
What I always do is place the fish in a bucket on the floor beneath the tank containing the water in the bag, and with a very fine tube, about the size of an airline hose and syphon the water into the bucket untill the water from the bag mixes with the tank water about 1:3 respectively. This very similar the drip system that Simpte mentioned.
This method is very painless for your fish and as they are in a stable opaque container which will minimise stress greatly. The aclimatisation period is also gradual, but not too tedious for your fish.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

P.S. don't fill up this thread with a load of unconstructive critisism of Rons thread that I've just had to deal with.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Simpte, Cichlid Man, thank you. The drip acclimation system is the way I have always done things also. I usually open the bag, pour the contents into a bucket and drip water for a while to equalize conditions. Then net the fish and place into the new tank. Very similar to the way Simpte and Cichlid Man has described. However, it has been suggested that this way is very stressful to the fish. I think the problem is more acute when fish are in the bag for a long time, as in shipping across the country. Not so much when you are 30 min. away from the lfs. While fish are in the bag, ammonia and carbon dioxide are given off. Our plant friends will confirm that an increase in CO2 will cause a drop in PH. When the bag is opened, CO2 is released and will cause a rapid rise in the PH. This is the dangerous part. Ammonia is much more toxic at a higher PH. We now have lots of ammonia with a sudden large increase in PH which creates a toxic soup that is damaging to the fish. Is it possible that this danger is actually greater than the possible transfer shock that we all know about???? Maybe we should consider that opening the bag and immediately pouring the fish into a net and then immediately into the Q. tank. Or maybe some intermediate proceedure. What do you think?


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## MHarris9252 (Jan 15, 2006)

Simpte, I have some questions for you sir. 

1. If you didn't buy a fish from your LFS, then where would you buy it?

2. How do you transport fish if not with a net?

Excuse my ignorance, I am fairly new to the hobby but am very enthusiastic about it. Thanks for your reply.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I think I can answer those:

1- there are other places to get fish, either from friends, local fish clubs, or even specialist breeders. These are very often much better fish than you would find in a fish store.

2- You may avoid scuffing up a fish with a net by instead trapping it in a jar.

Okay, back on topic, there are a few things associated with bags that have long gone unnoticed but which are now getting the attention they deserve.

First of all, all bags breathe a bit, even though the "breather bags" do it MUCH better.
If a fish has been in a bag for awhile, the supply of oxygen & the CO2 buildup could both be reaching dangerous levels. In the air, the bag can exchange a bit of these, but once submerged in water this exchange comes to a screeching halt. If a fish is "floated" for too long, the results could be bad.
Next, as ron already mentioned, the pH drops like crazy in a fish bag. The ammonia also rises. This isn't normally a problem, since the ammonia is converted to less-toxic ammonium at lower pH levels. Using the drip method on a fish that's been bagged awhile can actually do a lot of harm IF: 
1- the ammonium has built up a lot
2- the pH has dropped a lot

The pH increase created by the drip acclimation causes a rapid conversion of the ammonium back into ammonia, and trapped in the bag or bowl, the fish has no escape.

A few years ago, transhippers and wholesalers discovered that mortality rates among newly received fishes dropped dramatically when slow acclimation was dispensed with in favor of the simple rip-and-dump method; that is, the fish are dumped into a bowl and then netted out and put into the tank. Yes, the shock is a bit much, but they usually did better, much better, than the fish which were acclimated slowly.
Isn't that weird & unexpected?

The biggest thing to bear in mind, of course, is the amount of time the fish have spent in the bag. If it's only been a few hours at most, then there's no need to give any of this a second thought. However, fish which just travelled halfway across the continent, or the world for that matter, are at a much greater risk.

Oh, another thing-> the pH of the new destination tank's water of course plays a big part in all this. If the ph is neutral or acidic, then there is little danger. It's those high-pH waters which pose the problems.


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## MHarris9252 (Jan 15, 2006)

Ok, so this got a little technical for me, but I do understand. Makes sense. 

What i got from this thread is that I'll stick to getting the fish in the water ASAP


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

M, I think I am going to join you. I have always used the drip method and there have been times that I have literally watched fish die in the bucket. How many puzzling cases of fin rot or sores occur weeks later, that are actually the result of ammonia poisioning??? 

I would like to point out that I am not familiar with this method as it would apply to salt water fish.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I've been a firm believer of drip acclimation, and I drip acclimate all fish, however, I rarely ever exceed 4 hours in the bag. Also I check pH/salinity/and ammonia before drip acclimating... usually it isn't overly low, but I do find it to usually be in the 7.8-8.0 range and usually ammonia isn't high .25 or lower... but those are just my findings.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Fishfirst, I have been doing some more "webhopping" about this and I think salt water is different. The big potential problem with this "rip and dump" method ( Old Salt's terminology ) is the possibility of transfer shock. PH shock and temperature shock may, however not be the huge problem we all once thought. Osmotic shock caused by a change in TDS is real, tho and is more of a problem for saltwater fish. Old salt touched on this in his post. 

The jury is still out, as far as I am concerned, but I am leaning more toward "rip and dump" for freshwater, especially if bagged for more than a couple of hours. 

I would like to hear more comments.


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## BlueMaxx (Jan 10, 2006)

meow meow.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

ron v said:


> M, I think I am going to join you. I have always used the drip method and there have been times that I have literally watched fish die in the bucket. How many puzzling cases of fin rot or sores occur weeks later, that are actually the result of ammonia poisioning???
> 
> I would like to point out that I am not familiar with this method as it would apply to salt water fish.


I don't believe the problem is ammonia poisoning as much as purchasing weak fish from less than idea stores. (DO NOT MENTION NAMES IN THIS THREAD).

Fish from said stores are weak to begin with and either method could result in death. The problem is people don't know what to look for when buying from lfs. They also don't know when the store even gets in their shipment. Purchasing fish the day of shipment is usually not a good idea.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

There really are a great many variables in play here, so it's not possible to really definitively say just what the best & worst methods are for general use. I suppose it's going to have to be a case-by-case type of thing.

Saltwater fish are very adept at handling temperature & osmotic shock, despite popular belief. In fact, they frequently freshwater bathe themselves when they find an opportunity. The biggest problem they face is the fact that saltwater tanks have a very high pH, and the same holds true for african rift lake cichlids. pH shock isn't so easily overcome, and in a shipping bag the pH can swing very wildly. Ammonia is a lot more toxic in the higher pH ranges, so between the pH & ammonia, drip acclimation of long-bagged saltwater animals is just asking for trouble. For most folks this isn't even an issue, since they usually go home very soon after leaving the petshop. Those who recieve fish which have been bagged a long time are really the only ones who have to worry about anything.

Some people know how to prep & ship fish, but some don't. This can also cause a lot of variation in the results. Some sellers keep their fish in good condition, but some don't. This also causes a bit of unpredictability.

Overall, I would acclimate any fish I bought locally, and just dump any I got via overnight shipping. I would have to clarify, however, the fact that the SPECIES would have to be considered as well, since some are tough and some aren't, and I'd also have to consider the SPECIMEN itself, in order to determine whether it looked like it should need any special consideration.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

TheOldSalt said:


> the SPECIES would have to be considered as well, since some are tough and some aren't, and I'd also have to consider the SPECIMEN itself, in order to determine whether it looked like it should need any special consideration
> 
> OK this all sounds good to me. Maybe with this, we are close to a recommendation on the "best method".... Salt, I have a question... What would be your recommendation for a "delicate" species that had been bagged for a couple of days and seemed to be in trouble?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

If I'm going to preach an alternate method, I guess I need to be willing to put it to the test. I just received a shipment of four different fish species ( quite expensive, I might add ). The fish were shipped from Houston on Tuesday, got held up a day and arrived here about 30 min. ago ( Friday ). The first bag ( Steatocranus tinanti ) are in my tank. About 20 sec. from opening the bag to in my tank. I have to say... I'm very nervous about this. It goes against everything I have ever done. I'm gonna give this group 15 min. or so, to see how they do. The rest of the fish are still in unopened bags, in the box they came in.... I will keep you posted....


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

All the fish are in their new homes. Microctenopoma ansorgii, Anomachromis thomasi, and Nannochromis parilus. They are all hiding. I have not attempted to feed yet. I don't see anything wrong except the normal ( I hope ) new enviroment stress. All the cichlids are in a 33 gal. long QT. tank and the ansorgii are in a separate 20 long QT. We will see??????


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

Whenever I add new fish to an aquarium I have the fish in a bag from where I got it, then I let half that water out and fill the bag up slowly with my water. That way there is a gradual temperature change (if at all) instead of shocking them by throwing them into different water temperatures. I don't have a reason why this is a better plan than any other, just what I figured worked the fastest.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Cliff, did you read the thread?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

It has now been 4 1/2 hours. The cichlids are all doing great. They are out and feeding. Fighting, displaying to each other. Color has not come back completely. The ansorgii are still hiding but seem Ok. I don't know much about their habits, but I think they are shy anyway. I'm still a little concerned about them.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Everyone is fine after 48 hours. So the rip & dip method worked well, at least this time. After three days in transit, across country, directly from bag to tank. No acclimation period at all. It sure was easy. No worry with buckets and drips and all that.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

!!!bump!!!!


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

About transporting. If you are floating the bag or doing the drip method and are right by your tank or quarantine tank, whatever......can you use your HAND to quickly transport your fish? I wonder because in the case of cories or anything else that has, um, parts/feelers/fins/whatever that are spikey, maybe they'd get caught in a net? I read the jar idea, but I'm just wondering about the hand thing (and yes, I've used my hands). 

If your hands are clean, do you see a problem with this?


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## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

i put the fish in a container with their old water. wait 30 minutes, add a 1/4c tank water. wait 15 minutes, another 1/4c tank water, etc. do that about 4 or 5 times or until the container is full, then dump half the water in the container down the drain, and repeat a second time, then NET the fish and put them in the tank.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

msdolittle said:


> If your hands are clean, do you see a problem with this?


I use my hands too!


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## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

i always put my hands in my tank, and i use my hands to move my bettas, since they are rather slow and kind of delicate. i use my hands to fix my plants and rearange my tank, etc. just rinse them really good in warm water first.


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## Ramis (Apr 10, 2006)

Well if they do get stuck in the net, then would be the time to use your hands. I've never really done it with fish only when I go fishing and with bettas thats about it. One time, my brother and cousin kept lifting teh betta out of the tank after they got back from outside and the water got so dirty. Thne he died a few weeks later..


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## msdolittle (Mar 4, 2006)

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one! I just felt that since I could actually FEEL the fish, FEEL any pressure that was on them, then it must be safer. I worry about bumping them accidentally with a net or jar or whatever....I just feel more confident using my hands.


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## 1of2 (Apr 12, 2006)

I have been keeping fish for a long time and for most of that time I have been acclimating the fish in some way or another. At this point I am a firm believer in getting the fish in the tank as quickly as possible. This is easier for some people than for others. Consider what water you have in your tank. You won't have to be keeping fish too long before you get accustomed to your water parameters and what is normal for your fish. A lot of people get fish from a nearby fish store that have water parms that are very similar to theirs. If this is the case and your tank temp is similar to the outside temperature then I would put them straight in the tank. This is what I normally do now and it causes a lot less problems for me. If, on the other hand, you are using well water for instance and it is higher in iron or a different pH than where you get your fish you might be forced to rethink your situation. There is too much to take into consideration to listen to anothers opinion of what is best for your situation without them knowing a lot about your specific conditions. No approach is going to work for everyone. Learn the specifics of *YOUR* water and use a little common sense and you will be fine.
This is JMO. Take it for what it is worth, about as much as everyone elses.


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## pokagon55 (Jan 31, 2006)

1of2 said:


> I have been keeping fish for a long time and for most of that time I have been acclimating the fish in some way or another. At this point I am a firm believer in getting the fish in the tank as quickly as possible. This is easier for some people than for others. Consider what water you have in your tank. You won't have to be keeping fish too long before you get accustomed to your water parameters and what is normal for your fish. A lot of people get fish from a nearby fish store that have water parms that are very similar to theirs. If this is the case and your tank temp is similar to the outside temperature then I would put them straight in the tank. This is what I normally do now and it causes a lot less problems for me. If, on the other hand, you are using well water for instance and it is higher in iron or a different pH than where you get your fish you might be forced to rethink your situation. There is too much to take into consideration to listen to anothers opinion of what is best for your situation without them knowing a lot about your specific conditions. No approach is going to work for everyone. Learn the specifics of *YOUR* water and use a little common sense and you will be fine.
> This is JMO. Take it for what it is worth, about as much as everyone elses.


Very good advice....I like to get the fish home, open the bag and give a bit of Stess Coat to the fish then add some tank water to the bag at witch I check the PH and the temp. If everything is ok then I net them to the tank and shut the light off. I got bombed for saying this by Carl on another post and as I can't speak for anyone else, this is what works for me and me alone, if this info. dose in fact help someone else than that is great.


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## thecatdidit (Aug 15, 2005)

................


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

That's the way most people do it. In my humble opinion, it's not the best way though. Thecatdidit ( I like that name LOL. ), did you read through this thread. Did you see the science behind my position. I would be interested in your input.


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## Ramis (Apr 10, 2006)

This is gonna sound weird but I've always been scared to use my hands, I've only picked up one fish with my hands, otherwise my friend uses his hands and helps me out


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

ron v said:


> Simpte, Cichlid Man, thank you. The drip acclimation system is the way I have always done things also. I usually open the bag, pour the contents into a bucket and drip water for a while to equalize conditions. Then net the fish and place into the new tank. Very similar to the way Simpte and Cichlid Man has described. However, it has been suggested that this way is very stressful to the fish. I think the problem is more acute when fish are in the bag for a long time, as in shipping across the country. Not so much when you are 30 min. away from the lfs. While fish are in the bag, ammonia and carbon dioxide are given off. Our plant friends will confirm that an increase in CO2 will cause a drop in PH. When the bag is opened, CO2 is released and will cause a rapid rise in the PH. This is the dangerous part. Ammonia is much more toxic at a higher PH. We now have lots of ammonia with a sudden large increase in PH which creates a toxic soup that is damaging to the fish. Is it possible that this danger is actually greater than the possible transfer shock that we all know about???? Maybe we should consider that opening the bag and immediately pouring the fish into a net and then immediately into the Q. tank. Or maybe some intermediate proceedure. What do you think?


After a long trip if it is the ammonia and pH you are worried about you can try to take some tank water into a small bucket and float the bag in that to get the temps of the water close. Then open the bag and move the fish into the tank or bucket. This will eliminate the fish having to be in the bad during the possible pH change affecting ammonia toxicity.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I contend that floating the bag, at all, is a bad idea. If we are trying to equalze temperature, the tank is usually warmer than the bag. After a long trip a high level of ammonia will be in the bag and since ammonia is more toxic at a higher temp. we are making things worse every minute the fish are in that bag. 
A temperature increase of 5 degrees C means that the unionized (toxic) ammonia level in the bag will increase by almost 34%. In addition, as temp rises, the fishes metabolism increases and more and more ammonia and CO2 are given off. We are creating a toxic chemical soup ever minute thay are in the bag. It just doesn't make sense to float the bag at all. Gotta get them out of the bag and into the tank ASAP. Rip and dump, as Old Salt put it. 

Oh yeah, one other point. Some exchange of oxygen tanks place through the bag where the inside water contacts the bag. Not a lot, but some. When we float the bag, this transfer is cut off, which adds a little more to the problems.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

ron v said:


> I contend that floating the bag, at all, is a bad idea. If we are trying to equalze temperature, the tank is usually warmer than the bag. After a long trip a high level of ammonia will be in the bag and since ammonia is more toxic at a higher temp. we are making things worse every minute the fish are in that bag.
> A temperature increase of 5 degrees C means that the unionized (toxic) ammonia level in the bag will increase by almost 34%. In addition, as temp rises, the fishes metabolism increases and more and more ammonia and CO2 are given off. We are creating a toxic chemical soup ever minute thay are in the bag. It just doesn't make sense to float the bag at all. Gotta get them out of the bag and into the tank ASAP. Rip and dump, as Old Salt put it.
> 
> Oh yeah, one other point. Some exchange of oxygen tanks place through the bag where the inside water contacts the bag. Not a lot, but some. When we float the bag, this transfer is cut off, which adds a little more to the problems.


I totally agree, and I have to admit that I didn't know that the increase in ammonia was 34%, where did you get this info from? 
However, what we have to remember is that any shock given by the sudden difference in water parameters can be lethal so should be avoided, but like Ron V said, if the ammonia and pH levels in the bag are near to deadly, then the fish sould be removed from that bag water immediatly. Then again, we as fishkeepers should never let fish get into that state in the first place. I'm afraid it can't be helped with long distance shipping, but in a simple trip back from the lfs, the fish should be given a big enough bag as possible to avoid such build ups of lethal gases dissolved in the water.
Fish from soft water tanks should never be immediatly placed in hardwater, and vice versa, also fish which have been kept in a mature aquarium with low ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels should never be moved to an aquarium with high levels of the substances. However, if the pH in the big which the fish is in is increadibably low, or the ammonia levels have built up, that fish should not be allowed to wait in that bag until the temperature equalizes, as I'm afraid temperature should be the least of your worries at this stage.


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## dwool36 (Jan 31, 2006)

I have not been floating since this thread was first started back in January. I keep Blue Rams, and have yet to lose one. What makes this special? My local water has a ph of 7.6 - 7.8. I keep my rams in RO water with a ph of 6.4. For those of you that do not know, rams are very sinsitive to water conditions. As soon as a walk in the door my new rams are added to their new home and I still have every ram that I have added since January (six). I would like to hear anyones experience of losing a fish from not acclimating.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

On two occasions since we started discussing this, I have received fish through the mail. Once from Texas and the other from Wisconsin. The Wisconsin shipment was delayed and ended up in transit for six days. In both cases the fish were in the new aquarium within seconds of the bag being opened. I opened the bag, poured the fish and bag water into a net allowing the water down the drain and then releasing the fish in the new tank. Ten- fifteen seconds from closed bag to in the new tank. Not a single loss. Fish were completely normal within hours. I have also started doing this with fish even locally obtained. I rarely buy from a pet shop, but often do at my fish club. Always rip and dump.


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