# Lighting fixtures



## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Hi guys
I am planting my 75 gal (soon to buy) and have a whole forum on this but I decided to make a separate one for lighting because I know it is complicated. 
So I am going for medium maybe medium highish lighting. I am *very* new to planting so if anyone knows a good site or something I could buy my lights from it would be a huge help! Also I'm guessing I'm going to have to buy a different fixture for it rather than the stock one? I think the wattage I'm going for is 200-250, is this the right wattage for the medium or medium highish lighting? Any ideas for fixtures, bulbs, and whatnot are gladly appreciated! 

Thanks guys!

Oh and just ps. I'm not sure on the dimensions of the tank I'm going to buy.


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

Well, your right for one, the stock lighting more then likely wouldnt suffice for plants.

The wattage your aiming for seems about right, assuming your looking at Power Compact lighting? 
The bulb rating your going to want to run around 6500k, the lower on the kelvin scale you get the more red wavelengths you get which are more beneficial to plants versus your more blue ones(as in higher up on the kelvin scale) 

That type of lighting should be good for low/medium light plants i would think, eh JOM? 

Do you have an idea as to which species of plants your eyeballing?


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

yes I actually have a pretty long list...I posted it in my "planting my 75 G" forum but anyways here it is:

Front:
Pearlweed
(Hemianthus micranthemoides)

Echinodorus tennellus 

Dwarf Sagittaria

Cryptocoryne undulata

Middle :
Black Sword plant
(Echinodorus parviflorus)


Anacharis

Ludwigia repens

Hornwort 
(Ceratophyllum demursum)

Creeping rush
(Juncus repens)

Rotala rotundifolia

Back:
Corkscrew val
(Vallisneria americana v. 'Biwaensis')

Giant Bacopa
(Bacopa caroliniana)


Aponogeton crispus

Willow leaf hygro
(Hygrophila salicifolia)

Wisteria
(Hygrophila difformis)


So yeah I really do need help on the lighting stuff! Any sites would be great and bulb and fixture ideas!


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2008)

Yep, you want a fixture that has bulbs between about 6500K (kelvin) and 10000K. Beyond 10000K, they are really for saltwater. Most power compact freshwater fixtures come with 6700K bulbs.

My suggestions would be:

1) A 260w power compact fixture would be alot of light, if you run all 4 65w bulbs the whole lighting period. You'd definitely need to inject CO2 then. But, if you only run the 2nd set of bulbs for about 4-5 hours a day, I think you'd be fine. Make sure you put alot of plants in the tank, especially the fast growing ones like Bacopa and Wisteria. They will help outcompete the algae.

2) Another option is to get 2 of these T5 HO fixtures. Again, I suggest only running the 2nd fixture for about 4-5 hours. The other can run the whole 8-9 hours. You'll need 2 timers for this, but it will be worth it. They do make 216w fixtures (so you wouldn't have to buy 2), but its more expensive and the ones I've seen come with 2 actinic bulbs, which are for saltwater and would need replacing.

3) If you are on a serious budget, you could use regular fluorescent lighting. Make sure you get some bulbs marked "daylight" or buy some in the range of 6500K to 10000K. This would be the cheapest, but not the best IMO.

75g tanks are hard to get that medium light wattage. But, those fixtures will work.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

I like the top two ideas. Lighting is expensive, as I expected. Lol everything is really. But its all worth it :wink:. If i take one of your choices it would most likely be the second. I like those lights but I think I'll check out fluorescent lighting too. See if I can find anything good. Does anyone know any good fluorescent lights?

Thanks AGAIN Justonemore! You've been a big help!


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok I read more and am figuring stuff out now


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## davercomeau (Feb 21, 2008)

I bought a Coralife 260 W lighting fixture. You have the option to two 2 bulb at 130 W or all 4 bulbs for 260 W. For a 75 gallon you should try to run at least 200 W of light. I run 260 W on my 90 gallon and the plants are thriving. By the way, I got my light for $100 cheaper on eBay than in the stores.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

da4l: 
(which btw they are not! have you ever had one with you pretty much 24/7?)

The standard 75G tank size is 48"x18"x20".

I am not familiar with all of the plants which you posted but the following are the fixtures which I would purchase either of (not both of).

HQI-MH
Unless you anticipate floating plants (which you may be) I would think about this one long and hard.
The bulbs in this fixture will provide 500W of very high quality 15000K light.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~CU01164.html

PC
If you do not anticipate floating plants then the following may be appropriate.
(Please note that the lunar light will not function as you would believe that it should.)
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~CU01016.html
Marine Depot will "change out" the factory installed bulbs with other bulbs.
I recommend two 7100K bulbs and two 10000K bulbs.

Please note that both of these fixtures generate significant heat and although both have cooling fans they are not appropriate for a fully enclosed canopy.

TR


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## fishin5 (Feb 28, 2008)

I would go with one of the things TR mentioned probably the 2nd


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks TR I would take your advice but I already found a tank that costs $150 adn comes with lights and a whole bunch of other stuff...

Thanks to all who helped me!!


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2008)

Do not use a metal halide fixture like that over a 75g tank without injecting carbon dioxide. That's an insane amount of light and you'd be growing every kind of algae in the book. 


Glad you found the deal! You getting all those tanks and the light that you found on ebay?


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

I didn't get the deal :-( 
Last second bid beat me to it...:-(


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh no! Well hopefully you'll find another good deal out there.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

For lighting my tank I'm just wondering...If I go above 10,000K in my lights would it be bad or just unnecessary? Also what would happen if you lit a freshwater tank with actinic bulbs? Like say I got this: http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Power-Compact...QQcmdZViewItem
Would it work in my aquarium? (I would either run one pair of the bulbs for only 4-5 hours a day or just not use a bulb)


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

dogsare4losers said:


> If I go above 10,000K in my lights would it be bad or just unnecessary?


da4l:

I do not understand "go above 10000K"?

TR


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

He means in Kelvin ratings. 

Plants use lighting in the 6500 to 10000K range. Above that and plants can't use all of it, so you are kind of wasting that bulb I guess you could say. For the plants to thrive from your lighting, you want to use something in that range.

Actinic bulbs do nothing for plants. The plants don't use that light, so you can't count that in your watts per gallon. A 50/50 bulb (half actinic and half 10000K) would atleast give you half of usable light from that bulb. 

You can always replace actinic bulbs for something in the plant range.

That link doesn't work, so I can't see what fixture you are referring to.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

da4l:

Please review the thread cited below as it may be of some real world help.


jom:

Please ref
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/aquatic-plants/19459-algae-co2-lighting-planted-tanks.html

Your response in this thread would be appreciated.

TR


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Sorry about the link! Here it is I think: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120229679691&_trksid=p2759.l1259
I asked the seller if he could replace the 2 actnitic bulbs with some that would work for me and am waiting on the response. I'm about to look into that link TR...

Thanks guys

*Edit: Believe it or not TR I remember reading that entire fourm!


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

That fixture would definitely work, but I'd get the bulbs swapped. In the description it says they have 50/50 and 6500K bulbs. I'd try to get 2 6500K bulbs to replace the Actinic and then do the lighting schedule like I described in an above post (2nd set only on for 4-5 hours a day).  They should replace them, you'll just have to tell them again when/if you buy it.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok good 
That makes me feel good. I know what I need for lighting whether or not I do indeed buy that. 

Ok, so the one other thing I'm wondering is just to make sure moonlights don't do anything for your aquarium other than add a complete day/night cycle right?


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

Right. Moonlights are for you, not the plants. I suppose keeping them on at night does something for the fish, but doesn't affect the plants (pos or neg).


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## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

*My 25" Deep Tank*

I purchased a 4 lamp Tek-Light System T-5 HO lamps (4 x 39 watts). That equates to High to Very High light when converted to Lumins / sq.in. Must read this: http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm
Now everyone is telling me that I've got too much light (haven't figured it out yet).

Anyway, I chose the T-5 HO's because I think they give off less heat than most other systems and I did not want to have to purchase a Chiller system to control the water temp or fans and blowers to move the heat.

Tek-Light is made by Sunlight Supply Inc www.sunlightsupply.com
I purchased them through Specialty-Lights http://www.specialty-lights.com/teklightaqua.html


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

T5s do give off less heat, but unless you have the tank in a warm room or you live somewhere that has hot summers you shouldn't need a chiller. PC lighting doesn't give off that much heat and that fixture you linked to (dogs) has 4 fans.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok good I was just checking...
I was looking into t-5's as well but truth be told I can't go for the real expensive things, yet. For lighting I am looking into some cheaper deals (why my link was ebay ). Later on I may look into co2/really nice lights.

Yeah my summers in VA are mild and my house is mostly around 72 degrees everyday or less. So I don't think lighting is going to overheat my tank. And yes JOM I did notice the 4 fans. 

Thanks for helping and even if I don't go for your suggestions I am thankful all the same and I also like *any* advice I can get, as I am relitively new to the hobby.


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## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

JustOneMore20 said:


> that much heat and that fixture you linked to (dogs) has 4 fans.


Not sure what light system comes up on the link, but the Tek-Light T-5 HO has no fans. It has 4 lamps on two separate switches / a/c cords.

There is a chart on this link. The sixth column from left in the table called Limitations, is where I saw that Compact Florescent lamps may require a chiller. I've never owned one, I was just going by this chart.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=&aid=350


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

> Not sure what light system comes up on the link,


Does the link not work 4 you because it does for me?
Ok basically it has 2" legs to raise it, 4x65 watts, and is heavily ventilated (also 8 moonlights) It comes new in the box because I think the seller makes it (maybe? I'm not sure) and is only $130 with shipping included. I think I can choose the bulbs and would most likely end up with 2 10,000K daylight bulbs and 2 6,500K bulbs, and I would run the 6,500 around 10 hrs and the 10,000 (with the 6,500) 4-5 hrs.

I don't think I would need a chiller considering how my temp. around the tank would be plus the fans

But if I remember correctly I would be saving around $200 (give or take some I can't remember the exact price on the t-5's you mentioned MWNF). Like I said I will look into nice lighting...or I may not if these lights do their job.

Thanks for all your help everyone


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## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

> Does the link not work 4 you because it does for me?


I didn't pay any attention to what that particular link brought up. I was simply pointing him to Specialty-Lighting and Sunlight Supplies websites so he could explore which might best suit him. I wasn't really saying he should by the Tek-Light T-5 HO. It's just what I did and where I found it.

Sorry, I see now you weren't talking about me.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

So MWNF what do you think of the system?


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## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

The light is very well made. Excellant quality. It will work in a canopy (many would not because they have exhaust fans built into the end of the light fixture). You can also purchase mounting brackets made for aquariums like mine (Oceanic) with wooden trims around the top. It comes with the German lamps which I think are of the highest quality. I remember there was an important distinction with the ballast needing to be smart electronically switched or something along those lines. Be sure to read about ballast.

Honestly, I am completely new to the hobby, so I had nothing to go on. The entire subject is very difficult to get a handle on. I was getting (and still do get) very conflicting advice from the forums. Some said for a 25" planted aquarium, I would need from 2 to 3 wpg. Half the people were telling me that 156 watts was for a Saltwater tank, while the other half said it might not be enough. I read as much as I could, I talked to the lfs, shopped around and purchased the Tek-Light.

I'm still not sure what to do. I think I'm coming to the conclusion (or being told so anyway) that I'll have to go to pressurized CO2 and EI dosing. Sometimes this whole thing just gets way too technical and I think I should have just bought a goldfish in a small round bowl. I'm coming to the conclusion that everyone tells you that (to use CO2 & EI) because that's what everyone is doing. It's what they know. In reality, there just isn't enough low-tek hobbist out there or maybe they just don't hang out on forums. It seems there is an overwhelming consensus opinion pushing everything down this 'high-tek' route. So, make up your mind right up front what your objectives are. Low-tek based on fewer plants maybe with less light or high-tek based on high light, CO2 suppliment, and dosing to support lots of plants. I don't know if any of that is correct, it's just my perception as someone who bought my first everything last month.

My point is that I'm still not sure if it's the "right" light system, but I think if I ever decide to go 'high tek', I know I have enough light.

You should really check out those links I posted (and any others). The watts per gallon thing can be very difficult because it really doesn't mean anything.


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## dogsare4losers (Feb 26, 2008)

MWNF I am very new as well... Truth be told a lot of what I know right now is straight from justonemore and I think she really does know what she's talking about. I also did a lot of research just on search engines, I found the same thing as you, conflicting answers. I continued on research and talking to jom and finally decided upon a system of 190-250 watts would give me medium lighting for a heavily planted 75 gallon tank. Anything more and then I would be into co2 and everything...even 240 or 250 is just asking for algae. So I have basically asked jom every single question I have and seeing how she's a moderator and has 5 successful planted tanks running I trust her fully. She is also very nice and doesn't get mad at "newbie" questions. I learned a lot from my lfs (it is locally owned and I know the owner, he isn't always just trying to make a sale, in fact once he didn't let me buy a $30 fish a few months ago and explained cycling and overstocking and so on) 

But all in all I have come to the conclusion that the best way to learn is to actually "do". You have to try stuff to learn and gain experiance. If one tank crashes figure out what you did wrong and try not to do it in the next attempt. Goldfish in a bowl seem so simple don't they , but after learning all this I know that a goldfish wouldn't last in there and even with it's simplicity I wouldn't allow myself to.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

If you look at this chart, you'll see that T5 HO is definitely more efficient than power compact when it comes to lumens per watt. They also run cooler, so thats another plus. That's not to say that power compact lighting isn't good and I know you aren't saying that MWNF (atleast I don't think you are). I know you did your research and found that the Tek fixture was the best for you. That is a great fixture and the brand gets alot of praise and if money was no issue, then it would be good for dogsare4losers. I wouldn't say that T5 HO is so much better than PC that its justified to spend that much more money on them.....but that's just my opinion. You can grow plants fine with PCs. 

I have not had a T5 HO fixture on my planted tanks yet, but I'm considering one for my 20 long. I am a little more partial to PCs just because that's all I've used. I've read that PC bulbs are just a twisted T5 but the shape of them makes them lose some efficiency.

Usually its just a personal preference as to which people go with (planted tanks and reefs). For a beginner I guess you just have to research (like both of you have) and decide which is best for you.

I am NOT claiming to be an expert at any of this. I've done my research and read and got suggestions from people just like you have over the years.

I linked you earlier in the thread to the Nova Extreme T5 HO fixtures which don't have as good reflectors as the Teks, but they are cheaper (even with having to buy 2 2x54w fixtures). When you multiply it out using the multiplier for the wpg rule (which isn't set in stone as you can see, but is mainly a guide) you get about the same number for 4x54w T5 and 4x65w PC wpg-wise and actually the T5 HO gives you slightly higher wpg. But, whats 0.2wpg gonna do for you? 

Basically either way you go, you should have good luck growing plants. And with all 4 bulbs on in either fixture, without any co2, you'll eventually face algae issues, so only keep 2 bulbs on your whole lighting period and have the other 2 on for a midday burst of about 4 hours. When you get co2, you can fire all 4.


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