# A Puffer Adventure



## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Some of you may know that I have been talking about doing a puffer tank for a while now. I have been doing research about what I would need and what are the best set ups. I thought I would journal this here 

So where I am at right now:
I have purchased a 20 long because they need more swimming space than my 20 high would really accommodate. My 20 high will be replaced with this tank. I don't have room for any additional tanks. A friend of mine is going to be the proud recipient of the 20 high. She is now subtly pushing me along (as in hey Obsidian lets go get what you need for your tank hehehe). 

I have an all glass canopy for the tank. 
I have my AC 50 filter that I will keep and my air pump for that tank. I have to do more research into weather that is something they enjoy or not. 
I have my heater. 

I need to purchase lights
I need to purchase a powerhead. 

I am considering planting the tank as the little guy like a lot of decoration in the tank. Because of that I am considering buying some T-5 lights but I am not positive this is what I want to do. I will want easy plants that do not necessarily require a ton of light and the T-5's might be overkill. I will not be dealing with CO2 injection of any kind. Any input about this matter would be appreciated. If I plant it will likely be a combination of plants and silk plants, and not completely just plants. 

I will be getting 4-5 dwarf puffers. I will need to find 1 male and 3-4 females. This I really worry about as I need to somehow pretty much guarantee that is the mix I get. I will talk to my LFS about weather or not they can order them in that ratio. 

The tank will be cycled instantly with my filter from my existing 20. the fish from the 20 will be going into my 100 gallon which will be having 3 schools of small fish in addition to its current inhabitants (it will likely still be understocked). That tank will gain cherry barbs, black neons, and a third school, I am leaning towards lemon tetras. 

I will add pictures as I go along


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Wow I had no idea it has taken this long to actually do this. Lots of things happened but I am full speed ahead now. 

I bought lights (and then fixed it to the right lights LOL). I have Coralife Freshwater Aqualight T-5. This light has 2 18 watt bulbs: 1 Colormax Full-Spectrum T-5 Fluorescent Lamp and 1 6700K Plant Lamp T5 Fluorescent Lamp. This gives me 1.8 Watts per gallon. I am going to look for medium light plants. I have one plant that I saw that is high light that I might try anyway. Of course I can't remember what it was called. 

I haven't taken any pictures with the right light strip on it, but here are some with the 10gallon strip that I used to help me aquascape. 




























Any ideas for good plants would be welcome. I am hoping to get them over the next few days. I also need to get the shrimp prawn I am going to use to cycle the tank. I decided against the insta cycle via the media from my other tank. There had been ich in there . It was all cleared up but I didn't want to take chances so I bleached it before I gave it to Nancy. So I am going to fishless cycle it for quite some time so it is stable when I bring in the puffers. 

The "river" will not sink into the sand. I lined the bed with a ziplock bag to keep those rocks separate from the sand. Trimming the left over bag in the tank was an interesting endeavor. I have a cave at each end. One under the bridge and the other from the glass on the right. I am looking for plants that are low and grass like in the front. That is the one I am fairly stuck about. 

Let me know what you think!!!


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Obs: most of the following is for my easy edification (ie. you have done all the research and I am basically lazy.)



Obsidian said:


> I have my AC 50 filter that I will keep ...


You will be getting only a 5X to 6X turnover +/-.




Obsidian said:


> I need to purchase a powerhead.


Why?




Obsidian said:


> I am considering buying some T-5 lights but I am not positive this is what I want to do.


Why are you leaning to T5 and not PC?

Loha "thinks a lot" about T5 strip lighting from Lowe's, etc but as nice as your house is ...




Obsidian said:


> I will want easy plants that do not necessarily require a ton of light and the T-5's might be overkill. I will not be dealing with CO2 injection of any kind. Any input about this matter would be appreciated.


2WPG and Flourish and you will be in business.




Obsidian said:


> I will be getting 4-5 dwarf puffers. I will need to find 1 male and 3-4 females. This I really worry about as I need to somehow pretty much guarantee that is the mix I get. I will talk to my LFS about weather or not they can order them in that ratio.


Just a note to check out your LFS source (I know that it is much cheaper than on-line due to shipping costs) but I once had a real bad experience with Queen Ara. Pleco's.

TR


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

jones57742 said:


> Obs: most of the following is for my easy edification (ie. you have done all the research and I am basically lazy.)
> 
> You will be getting only a 5X to 6X turnover +/-. TR


I am not worried about the turnover as there will only be 4-5 fish total in the tank. They are messy fish but I am sure this can handle it. If I have problems I can upgrade later. 





jones57742 said:


> Why? TR


I don't know LOL.
I am under the impression that they like a lot of water flow, but I can't find that now so I will have to look into this some more. They come from rivers. 





jones57742 said:


> Why are you leaning to T5 and not PC?
> Loha "thinks a lot" about T5 strip lighting from Lowe's, etc but as nice as your house is ... TR


I have T-5s that are NOT from Lowes  They are housed in a very nice casing meant for fish tanks. I am not quite up to DYI. 





jones57742 said:


> 2WPG and Flourish and you will be in business. TR


1.8WPG and Flourish. But tell me about the flourish: what does it have that I need and would there be any reason for me to need anything else, nutrient wise?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

And I bought the plants and planted it. I have no idea how many of these will actually live, but hopefully they all will 

I have 1 each of: 
Hygrophilia Corymbosa Stricta
Amazon Sword
Tropica fern
Wisteria
Cryptocoryne (I know there are varieties of this but I have no idea what variety I have. It just says "Assorted" and it was only one plant)
and Microsword. 

While all of these came in a single bundle some of them I was able to sort apart so I was able to spread them out a bit. I tried to make sure that the very top of the root systems stay just at the top of the sand. I don't have any nutrients in there yet as I am trying to figure that piece out. I am figuring they will be okay for 1-3 days while I look into it. Hopefully I will be able to get some tomorrow and hopefully I can find flourish. 

Pics:


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Obs: You have done way beyond a h..l of a good job on the aesthetics of that tank!!!

The contrast of the black sand with the white rock as well as the contrast of the driftwood on the left with the colors of the rocks on the right is 1st class!!!



Obsidian said:


> 1.8WPG and Flourish. But tell me about the *flourish*: what does it have that I need


Flourish is basically micronutrients and why it works by itself is beyond me but it did for me at 2 WPG (note that I do not have experience with all your plants though).




Obsidian said:


> ... and would there be any reason for me to need anything else, nutrient wise?


Possibly but I would just try double dosing the Flourish for a month or so and see how it goes as you are trying to keep this as low tech as feasible.

TR


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

jones57742 said:


> Obs: You have done way beyond a h..l of a good job on the aesthetics of that tank!!!
> 
> The contrast of the black sand with the white rock as well as the contrast of the driftwood on the left with the colors of the rocks on the right is 1st class!!!
> TR


Thanks Ron  So far I am really liking it. It will be more heavily planted than this in the long run but I am not sure how much more. I want to put more microsword in the foreground but I don't want it to completely block the river so I am not sure how to go about that. I may be doing a lot of trimming of that once it gets all settled in. I am also going to do a forest hunt for some Manzanita so when I find that piece I will know more about where I want to put any other plants. 

I like how peaceful the tank looks.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Of course I just "had" to go to the pet store today. Umm Hmm. Right. I went and got some more plants from PetSmart. They have some different plants than PetCo. I got some Cambomba, but I think that is a floating plant so that one may not work in the long run. I left the weight on that one and put it in the sand anyway. We will see what happens. And I got some Anachris and red something (I forgot the names on the way Home. I knew that would happen. I try hard though!) I am pretty sure I have mixed light exposure plants so I am just crossing my fingers that this will work out. Usually when I do that things come out just great so I have no doubt that will happen in this case as well. Pictures to come later 

So for me to keep this straight in my head because I know nothing about plants and will probably not be able to ID them easily right away. I have:
Cryptocoryne
Amazon Sword
Micro sword
Wisteria (Hygrophila Difformis)
Tropica fern (Microsorium Pteropus)
Compacta (Hygrophila Corymbosa Stricta)
Combomba
Anachris
Red something

And I have 2 shrimp prawns in a mesh bag WOOT!


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Shrimp in tank overnight and it is already cloudy  Yes I get excited by cloudiness LOL I don't have my master test kit but I will have it by the time this is close to being done with the cycle. A friend of mine is borrowing it while her Betta tank cycles. 

Get dirty tank, get dirty!!! (no freaking out, there are no fish in there)


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Obsidian said:


> I got some Cambomba, but I think that is a floating plant so that one may not work in the long run. I left the weight on that one and put it in the sand anyway.


Obs:

Camboba will work as a rooted plant or as a floating plant.

TR


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Okay I think the "Red Something " is Ludwigia. 

Thanks for the info Ron  I am thinking about separating that bunch out so it is good to know I can plant it in the sand.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Okay I have been cycling the tank officially since last Sunday. The cycle seems to be going really fast. I tested today and I had 2.0 ammonia, 2.0 Nitrite, and about 15 nitrate. I really should not expect to see nitrate by now so that it is there is great! I am going to pull the current prawn from the tank any not replace until tomorrow night so the ammonia doesn't crank up too high. I don't want it to go so high that it starts killing off the other bacteria. Getting excited! The plants are doing okay in general. Some leaves are dying off a bit but not many. There are also some diatomes in the tank on a few of the plants, but again not many just yet. I am going to decrease the light exposure time (its at almost 12 hours now which is too much for the plants) to closer to 10 hours. That should help with the diatomes a bit. If they keep coming I am not worried though. They will go away eventually LOL.


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## Cacatuoides (Feb 2, 2009)

Bravo to your patience. I could never do anything like this.*not yet * It looks amazing, I'm a noob compared to your awesomeness so no advice .


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

It is all about patience I have learned. If you have to do things "now" then you can get into trouble for yourself. I know that diatomes are a common part of the cycle, so I have no reason to worry about them. I know that to fishless cycle from scratch (no chemical/biological aids like stability and no borrowing media from other tanks) it takes 4-6 weeks. If I rush that then I have consequences. They may not be negative, but that possibility is there. I could grab media from my other tanks just have it cycled *now*. I want a stable tank with as little chance of disease as possible because puffers need a really stable environment and they are sensitive. Best way to do that was cycle from scratch. So with that I know that I am likely to have a successful tank which makes the patience worth while. The kicker is that I will also need to maintain the tank for a few weeks once it has been cycled, just to get it stable  Now if I had actual patience I would wait a few months LOL. That would just be insane!

Thanks for the compliment


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

The tank so far:


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## Redwings (Dec 22, 2009)

It's almost as beautiful as you! 

Looks nice and almost done )


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Okay it showed as almost cycled yesterday and fully cycled today. However I am not believing the tests as it is cloudy and clearly in a bacterial bloom after adding shrimp last night and pulling it today. 

Yesterday I did an 80% water change due to the numbers being so high earlier in the week (yesterday was the quickest I could get to the change). On Wednesday I believe it was the readings were ammo 0 nitrite 2 and nitrate 80. I pulled the shrimp from the tank and did the w/c yesterday. After the change the numbers were ammo 0 nitrite .25 and nitrate about 8. 

I added the shrimp back in overnight and tested today: Ammo 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10. But it is cloudy today as well so I don't really believe that there is no ammo or nitrite. One of them must be there. 

So for now I am going to thaw out some shrimp (I have been just putting them in there frozen and it is possible that the cloudiness is just coming from the shrimp itself as it defrosts in there) and put in just pieces of it overnight to keep it fed and keep the nitrates down. If it continues to show these numbers then I will know it is really cycled. I would expect some creep in the nitrate which is fine. I will do a large w/c prior to putting the fish in. 

I am going to hold it cycled like this for at least 2 weeks before I order the puffers. That should tell me that the tank is stable before they arrive.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Okay I asked my LFS to order the puffers. I am doubtful this will happen anytime soon because of how long people have been waiting for the lazy owner to actually put an order in. She keeps saying "next week" and then never doing it. Then she wonders why her customers don't come back. Doh. 

So I have a Q: Is tropical fish distributors on AquaBid a trustworthy place? They have 6 dwarf golden puffers that I could get if I wanted. Also I cannot find a "dwarf golden puffer" I have found golden puffers and dwarf puffers but never that description. I do not want 6 golden puffers. Does anyone have any idea if they are actually dwarfs? No scientific name is given. They are butt cheap so it would really only be paying for shipping.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Obsidian said:


> So I have a Q: Is tropical fish distributors on AquaBid a trustworthy place?


Obs:

I have ordered from them once several years ago and had good luck.

They are a wholesaler who occasionally post on AB.

I would verify shipping costs before ordering.

TR


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## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Perhaps they are just Dwarf Puffers with a fancier-sounding name? Everything I've looked at says they are known by a million different names but are all generally the same thing. 
We bought a pair of them from a Care-A-Lot and they are mean little things. One disappeared over a vacation and we took the other one to the LFS because he didn't seem to be doing well.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Do they have a picture? Why not ask the seller what they are.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Yeah I thought I had an account open with AB but it turns out I did not. I have gone through their process now so I should be able to ask that. One of my tasks for the day. I hope that they are a good distributor.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Okay there is an end to the story at last! I was leery of the tropical fish distributors puffers and when I sent an e-mail seeing clarification they never once responded. 

My LFS held true to form and never actually ordered the fish. 

My friend has been checking out stores in Phoenix and we were down there last weekend. One of the stores, Fish Inc, had dwarf puffers! I now have 5 of the little buggers swimming around in their tank. They are not full grown yet so I am not certain of sex, but I have a few males at least from what I can tell. I am hoping there are more females than males. If not I fear for the females. 

The store appears to be a really good one and they had the most awesome dog faced puffer in their SW section. And they had a sign saying they refused to sell to anyone whose tank is less than 300ga. That was a good sign. The guy my friend and I spoke with was very knowledgeable. I look forward to more fish from the store once I can get my QT cycled again. I had it cycled but stopped feeding it so I have to restart. This store had a lot of choices, rows of tanks that were all very nice and well kept up. Obviously they care. 

I will post pictures when I get a chance. The tank has some algae in it but I don't mind. One patch of it on my log is really pretty. I do want the algae on the leaves to go away though, it is not letting the plants have the nutrients they need. Overall I am not algae phobic


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2010)

just how big are these fellows? i have had some experience in keeping them. typically you should be able to sex them at about an 3/4th of an inch and tbh, am hoping you are considering a species only tank for the sake of your other fish.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

The tank is a puffer tank. Lots went into it. They are in a planted 20L. I am not seeing the darker chest on any of them but I am seeing what could be a solid line down their sides. They are also spotted so I am not experienced enough to say which one is spots Vs which one is a line. I haven't had a close enough look at the eyes to see if there are any wrinkles but I think one of them does have that. I think 2 were puffed up at each other yesterday. They are not quite an inch and already hunted down every snail in the tank LOL. I am feeding them frozen blood worms, beef heart, and an omnivore mix. They seem to like the plants and to have staked out territories  It would be really cool if they decided to spawn but I am not sure the fry would have a chance before being dinner.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2010)

sounds like ur all set. yea these guys are really mean for the size they come in. but very pretty fish. you should be able to start sexing them when they start approaching the 1 inch mark and the wrinkles are prob the best way since the chest line is not always visible. breeding them would require you to have a fairly fast moving water setup seeing that they come from a fairly fast moving river. you could try shrimps....but if they figure out they like the taste of shrimps then thats the end of the shrimps in the tank.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Congrats Obs.

TR


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I have thought of otto cats.

I am not certain that they are eating anything but the blood worms. I have been dropping it all in frozen. Should I defrost it then dump that in there?


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2010)

websites say Otto's will work but imo they are best left by them selves.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I am fine with them by themselves but I am thinking I might try something before saying no way they have to be by themselves. They are little brats for certain!


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2010)

thats an understatement. i set up a 40 gl planted tank with tiger barbs and puffers. guess who are left alive in the tank now?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

The tank now.









































































DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THIS TYPE OF ALGAE IS AND HOW TO GET RID OF IT???


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## Mystery snail (Mar 26, 2010)

Your tank is very cool, you should be darn proud of your work. Really enjoyed looking at your pics.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Lookin good Obs.

Double dosing with K and CSM+B should help with the algae problem.

TR


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

It looks like "blue-green algae" aka cyanobacter to me. If it is, is will coat every thing in the tank. It will siphon out in sheets. Its supposed to response (die) when treated with erythomyacin (sp?). The antibiotic that gives you diarrhea because it kills the "good" bacteria in our gut.


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## I<3Fish (May 10, 2010)

Nice Tank! Puffers are awesome, btw. I really do enjoy mine! And... One Question. What is the Short Plant in the middle?


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## Hoggs (May 9, 2010)

I have the same problem as you. Are you getting salt or fresh and what kind of puffer? Also, is it hard to use a vaccum on sand?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

@ I<3Fish- The "short plant in the middle" needs more clarification. It also would assume I remember the names of my plants. I honestly know nothing about plants. I plant them and pray. Many are crypts of some kind, so chances are it is that. The grassy stuff in the front is microsword. There is some Lace Java on the right. There are a few crypts that I don't remember the name of center off to the left. There is anubas or anachris (long stuff) heck if I remember which is which, and there is a bronze wedntii in the front right. There are other things in there but I don't remember their names. I do have an amazon sword but it is behind the log and hasn't been successful enough to grow much just yet. It has hope though. 

@ hoggs- They are full freshwater dwarf puffers. I find the sand fairly easy to clean as really all you do is swirl the vaccuum over the top enough to disturb the mulm and vac it up. The tank does look messy after this until the filter takes care of it. Also some does resettle so it never looks "pristine." I don't care so much about that so it's no big deal. Someone with full blown OCD would go absolutely bonkers.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I found a product for the blue green "algae" called simply "Blue/Green Algae Remover" by ultra reef. I went with it since it is not a medication of any kind. I put in part of a single dose and the stuff is gone. I wanted to use it lightly as I couldn't find any information specific to puffers for it. It does not hurt snails or other invertebrates so I figured it should be safe. 

Unfortunately the algae kind of took over the top cover plant (anacharis?) and I am pulling that from the tank. The other plants have it a lot on the leaves and the java lace is taking a slow downward turn to the brown, which just can't be good. I will get more of that if it does die as I really enjoy it. I had to get rid of the red ludwiga (sp) and a couple of other plants. I think the others are going to make it though. I need to get more as I want the tank to be nice and planted thick for them to explore and enjoy. The initial plants are starting to grow and thicken a little, but not like they probably would do if I went with CO2. Just not gonna happen though LOL. 

They are just so flippin cute! One is sick though  They said it might be a parasite so I am asking about the best way to deal with that.


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## Corwin (May 23, 2010)

very pretty, you did a really nice job at making that tank look great.

What rocks did you use for the river? they look neat, are they quartz?


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## Spinner (Dec 23, 2008)

I love puffers! Thanks for sharing this  It is a great tank!


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## platies pwn (Nov 29, 2010)

anohter ressurection?seriously?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Maybe I like being raised from the dead 

The tank still exists but is no longer a puffer tank. And the plants are much thinner now, getting new ones though  Sand and my plants do not get along!


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## giggitygiggity (Sep 14, 2011)

Im jealous, I've been wanting to get a smaller setup with puffers only as well.

Great looking aquarium, and fish!


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

If I went with puffers again I would just get one or two larger ones. The pea puffers were hard to deal with really. I could hardly see them and then they started picking on each other and killing each other. Which is fairly rare, but does happen, I believe I had too many males. When I got down to 2 of 5 I gave them to the LFS and changed over the tank back to a community tank. Now it seriously needs more plants, but I can't keep the plants alive so I have kind of given up there too. It sure did look good with all of those plants LOL. Time to add more! If I get really insane I will get go CO2 (DIY). I think it is fine to try it without but I just can't get it to go too well so that might be my trick.


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## giggitygiggity (Sep 14, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> If I went with puffers again I would just get one or two larger ones. The pea puffers were hard to deal with really. I could hardly see them and then they started picking on each other and killing each other. Which is fairly rare, but does happen, I believe I had too many males. When I got down to 2 of 5 I gave them to the LFS and changed over the tank back to a community tank. Now it seriously needs more plants, but I can't keep the plants alive so I have kind of given up there too. It sure did look good with all of those plants LOL. Time to add more! If I get really insane I will get go CO2 (DIY). I think it is fine to try it without but I just can't get it to go too well so that might be my trick.




I just want to get 1 so I dont have to deal with them killing each other. 

You should just get pressurized CO2. It is expensive but so worth it in the end!


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