# Where to find an retailer commercial Aquarium system?



## GrAveTzT (May 20, 2009)

I'm starting an Exotic Pet store and I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a company which provides a commercial Aquarium system.
I've already made contact with http://www.marineland.com but after much research I've found that there is some major bad reputation on the quality of their systems.

I'm also going to be in contact with http://www.petstorefixtures.com But I've found that its most likely that they will not deal with a Canadian based company.

Does anyone know of any other companies that provide these systems. I'm on a major timelimit and need to find one soon.


I realize that these systems are very expensive, so I've been searching for used systems, but this is proven to be impossible even though I have heard that they are always on sale at ebay.
Regardless I don't even know the exact search term because the two companies call them totally different things.

Where could I find this sort of thing?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Where are you located? I have seen many systems sold as pet store around me close down. And old "systems", steel racks with undrilled tanks show up on craigslist out of people's storage units. There seem to be alot of these because the stores all went to the Marineland systems. I don't think they are any better or worse than any other system that shares water. What negative things have you heard? The others way to go is just have custom setups made. Call a steel place for the racks, buy the tanks in bulk, have them drilled, plumb them up. There are people who can do it. 

If I were starting a store from scratch, I'd have a central drain line (overflow and drain from each tank) and central clean water (large treatment tank with pipes to the tanks) in, central air to 100s of sponge filters, but I wouldn't do central filtration. Let each tank be its own QT and not share disease.

They are on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/MARS-MARINELAND...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50. Search for MARS marineland.


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## GrAveTzT (May 20, 2009)

I heard that Mars was known to do a lot of shipping with missed parts and installations that don't get complete.

To be honest I wouldn't know where you begin to setup a load of tanks myself. The racking system is easy enough though.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

try this place.. even if they can't help you; they should be able to direct you to who can..... they are the largest in the world.. 

www.aquaticeco.com


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I wouldn't get a MARS if I were you. They are horrendously expensive and not very reliable. why on earth do you want something like this anyway? Is it because of the constant automatic waterchange feature? Well, that's very handy until it fails, which it WILL, and then your whole tank will be wiped out by a huge infusion of raw tapwater. It happens all the time with these things.
Seriously, you would be MUCH better off in terms of financial cost, reliability, and animal survival by building your own system. I hate to say bad things about any commercial product, but we have one of these things at our store and it's a nightmare.


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## GrAveTzT (May 20, 2009)

I just don't think I can build my own system. The tank and stand setup is the easy part but knowing how to setup the pumps, filter, etc is a little tough for me. I would have to really educated myself on what to get before getting into that.

I assumed that a Mars or DAS system was obviously much more easy with maintenance, compact, and cheaper to actually run. Also I figured that the system would be better for the survival of the fish.

You guys say differently, and I should listen, but what's wrong with their systems exactly, what do they do?


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## Yayo01 (Oct 18, 2009)

If you don't think you can build your own system, because the setup of pumps, filters and stuff, maybe it would be better to consider not to sell fish, specially salt water fish. One of the most important issues and complaints about fish retailers are de lack of technical support and adecuate and reliable advice of store owner for the beginners and experimented aquarists. If you feel you can't provide adecuate guidance, the selling of fish will work against you, because nothing spreads faster in the aquarists community than the "bad store" factor. All of that considering your actual knowledge in fish keeping will keep you safe from fish loss, wich can actually get your store to a constant lose of money. Just think about it.


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## Yayo01 (Oct 18, 2009)

*by the way....*

i have two MARS in my store, and nothing is wrong about them. The perpetual water-exchange feature was modified and everything is working fine. The next project is change the aquarium size, from original 3 ft long 1 ft tall aquarium to 4 ft long 2 ft tall, more suitable for salt water fish.


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## Yayo01 (Oct 18, 2009)

*disease control in commercial setup*

There are two major considerations in the commercial system for a pet or aquarium store: MAINTENANCE, and EASY ACCESS. A system designed for an easy cleaning, will pay itself no matter how much it cost, because it will be always in the best appearance for your store. Either if you clean the system yourself or not, a system with an easy maintenance pays back for the store. For EASY ACCESS I mean if you can catch the fish for your customer rapidly, avoiding or minimizing fish stress. If the system has enough room to move with nets and plastic bags and everything involved in selling a fish, the system have an easy access.
I disagree with the sponge-airdriven-individualfilter setup, because the so called "system" is not a system, it is just a multi-tank fixture, with the cleaning need repeated as many times as tanks are in the "system". Sooner or later, the annoying cleaning routine will turn into a PITA, and the "system" will suffer, and so your store and fish. The best commercial system has a central drain line, AND central filtration, BUT with de added advantage of "isolate" capability. This mean any given tank can be "driven out" for quarantine purposes. An specific tank in the system can be "disconnected" from the central filtration as long as the fish they keep in are asured healty. Even this tank can be used for treatment. JUST THAT TANK. Once the fish are healty, you perform a water change, chemical filtration, and "re-insert" the treated tank to the main stream. All you have to do in a system like this is to clean the gravel with a sifon every other day, and have the central filter clean every month.
You make money by selling fish, and the most of time the system let you do that instead of keep you performing cleaning routines, the better. You can also install an automatic water change feature, making this routine easy too.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Grave, is there a reason you want a shared water system? My local pet store has all their fish in their own aquariums on an industrial style shelf. Every aquarium has its own filter, and none of the tanks share water. The appearance of the industrial shelf is not as fancy looking as the Petco or Petsmart stores in my area, but it does not look bad in the slightest. In fact, I will only buy my fish from the local pet store because I know that there is a significantly smaller chance that the fish in those tanks will be sick when I bring them home, due to the fact that they each have their own water. I am sure that changing the water in these tanks is more difficult than having the system do it for you, but no pain, no game right?

I am also in the process of opening a new business (not in the pet industry). I think that I would be very concerned about the cost of such a system, and think I would favor what I explained above. I don't want to tell you how to run your business, but I think that a few large fish tanks and some shelving units would be much cheaper than trying to get one of those big systems installed in your building. Cost is everything in the beginning 

I wish you good luck with your new business. Do you have a name for your store? And where in Canada is it located? If you are anywhere between Winnipeg, Manitoba and Thunder Bay, Ontario, I may have to come up and have a look. I live in Minnestoa, so such a drive would not be unreasonable.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Grave hasn't posted anything since last may. I agree that cleaning individual tanks is a PITA. Easy/automatic maintenance will lower your labor cost and you won't have a bunch of dead fish if you employees slack off. And salt-water especially is more stable in larger quantities. There must some major benefit to these systems or they wouldn't be so popular. And I'm not sure individual tanks in a store help much when the fish came from a wholesalers central system. 

But its just tragic when someone with a stable, established tank brings home one new fish and disease wipes out everything in the tank. It doesn't seem to matter if its a "good" store that takes fantastic care of fish. The conditions are perfect for the rapid evolution of medication-resistant diseases that have fairly long lead time between infection and visible symptoms. 

I love looking at fish in stores and I'd love to sell them my fry, but I find myself giving advice like "join a fish club", "look on aquabid", "go a local fish auction", even "look on craigslist", but "avoid fish from stores whenever possible". Central systems are like pre-school, the fish get exposed to everything going around. I know they claim these systems can stop disease transmission with UV sterilizers and micron filtration. But for that to really work, they have to have regular maintenance. And things like new UV bulbs and the electricity to run them don't come cheap. I'm sure it can be done right, I just don't trust most places (especially the big chains) to do it right.

It sounds like Yayo01 knows the store side of things and I only hear the horror stories of things that go wrong for the fishkeeper. I agree with bmlbytes that the high cost of these things must be a consideration. LFS and chainstores around me are closing right and left. The credit crunch hit small businesses really hard. I'm sure some went under just because they couldn't renew their loans.


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## Yayo01 (Oct 18, 2009)

*Fish retailers*

I think the first and only gold rule for a fish retailer is: BE AN AQUARIST YOURSELF. Any one who thinks to enter the aquarium bussiness just for the money is kissing the bussiness goodbye since the very begining. I am an aquarist since 1974, and I am running a small store since 2000, when I notice that the only way to maintain my hobby was selling fish and equipment to other people. I started selling my own tanks (handcrafted by me) and fry (breeded in my personal tanks), and sooner I find myself installing aquariums in restaurants, hotels and clinics. The major goal in an aquarium store is to keep the fish alive, not just to the time the customer buys them in your store, but also in the customer aquarium. Nothing helps your bussiness as much as a good old fish you sold years ago. To get that, you need to help the aquarist, tell him what to do, what not to do. You need to train him. A well trained aquarist will work for you as a regular customer, evolving and getting a new level in a regular basis, improving equipment, or just buying the usual food and suplements. Works too as a first hand (and free!) recomendation for you and your store. So the beginner and the experimented aquarist are confident to enter your store and get the stuff they really need, not just the "most sold". As an aquarist, you know what to offer to a customer: offer just the good stuff for the customer's aquarium. Keep an "style". Ecologic, thecnified, DIY lovers, breeders, even Feng Shui or other related dogmas where fish are involved. Give solutions to your customers. If you sell-and-forget, sooner you'll be fogotten. Try everything. Buy everything. Install it. Make it run. If you have problems, your customer will have them too. See how much it cost to keep the equipment running. How much in money. How much in time for maintenance. When a customer ask for that equipment, you know what is he going to deal with. Tell him. Train the aquarist enthusiast. He will thank you, and you will make money.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sounds like I'd like to shop in your place. Its really nice to talk to someone who really knows his stuff and isn't just pretending to know.

Question about the systems. Does the water flow from tank to tank before going to the filter? Central filtration would be ok with me w/UV sterilization and micron filtration if the water was filtered before it moved from a tank of fish to another tank of fish. I realize that means a lot more ugly pipe.


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## Yayo01 (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks for your comment. I really appreciate it. About the system, it is set back to back (imagine two MARS back to back). All the tanks drains individually by 1" PVC pipe to a central 2" pipe. This pipe takes the flow to the sump. There are two external IWAKI pumps, which returns the water by a 1/2 diameter PVC pipe and to each tank. Each tank has a ball valve. I can set the flow rate for any given tank from zero (closed) to full flow (about 400 gph). When closed, this tank does not flow water to the 2" pipe, and can be used for treatment or just for quarantine. I think this setup is simple and has the beauty of simplicity. When all the pipes are cut with precision and glued without mess, i think it look fine. The drain pipes are duplicated (two drains) thinking in the event a snail or dead fish clog one pipe, the other keep flowing and that tank does not overflow. About filtration, I have installed two 15 watts UV lamps (used for water treatment, not aquarium) and no micro-filtration. There are two sumps, one with electrical equipment, and the other with aquatic plants. They're intended for N consumption. Lights are T5 daylight (thin tubes = more room). Thats in fresh water. Salt water is a little diferent because the need of more equipment. The pumps are the same, but the shelf has just 6 aquariums, not 24 like the fresh water setup. Hope i can give you the picture. Does any one knows how to post pictures? I have pictures of the system. Just tell me how to post them.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can't upload pictures here but you can link to them with the image tags. Click on the picture icon [IMG ] [/IMG ] . Use photobucket or other picture upload site. 

UV is good and even running the water through sand will catch some organisms. I like that you can quarantine individual tanks. I wish you could pick out your fish and have them quarantined for you before you take them home.

There really isn't any going back to one-tank systems, is there? All new stores and wholesalers have multi-tank systems. Eventually all the fish in the hobby will have some immunity to everything, but I think we are in for a rough few years, disease-wise. The trade-off is that maybe the fish will take less damage from ammonia before we get them home. No more little tanks crashing because 1 fish died.


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## GrAveTzT (May 20, 2009)

I know its been a longtime, but I might as well mention that I didn't scrap the pet store business.

You all were right, Its so simple. Basically I built a rack for the aquariums and bought a whole bunch of individual aquariums that were 30 to 35g to use. For the air system I run a simple large air pump attached to PVC piping hooked with a bunch of air valves. Then Its just a hose to a sponge to each aquariums. Simple stuff. I made it pretty much based on how Jack Spencer has his setup.

On a side note the business has been operating for 7 months now and its doing very well.


Thanks for the help.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey that is awesome. What is your business name and where are you located? Any pictures of the store?


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