# A few easy questions



## Dregg (Nov 19, 2005)

Ok, been out of the loop for years but just got a new 75 gallon tank and i want to house cichlids in it. Some questions:

1. The main fish i want to have is a Jack Dempsey and/or an Oscar. What i would like to know is, what other cichlids go well with them. I'm more concerned with water temp and PH than i am with them getting along but i don't want one killing everything in the tank either. I plan on having alot of plants (artificial to start with) and some caves where they can hide. If the Oscar and Dempsey are a terrible mix, i'd prefer the Oscar over the Dempsey due to their friendly behavior towards me, the tank guy (i used to have one that ate from my hand). Other cichlids i would like to have would be 
-Convicts
-Green Terror

2. Sand, gravel, or that "cichlid substrate" as a bottom setting? I kinda like the sand idea but i heard that cichlid mix helps with the PH. The mix looks like a PITA to clean. Just for your information, i'll be using a canister filter. Can i use sand and something else to maintain the proper PH levels?

Thanks in advance for attempting to answer.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

If you are concerned about PH, Oscar and Dempsey are not really compatable. Oscar is from south america which has soft more acid water. Dempsey is from central america which has harder water with a higher PH. What is your tap water like. I would pick a fish that does best in your tap water so you don't need to worry about chemistry at water change time.


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## Lisachromis (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, I'd say go for the oscar. Jack dempseys would be too rough on the oscar. Now the fun part.... in your 75gallon tank, you could have 2 oscars! This means they'd have to have grown up together and get along. But I think that could be one cool looking tank!


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

I have had both fish (not together though) and personally, I liked the Oscar better. I had two convict with my oscar and they got along fine. While I liked my JD alot, he just did not have the persoanlity that an oscar does, IMO


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## DUSTIN323 (Sep 21, 2005)

ron v said:


> If you are concerned about PH, Oscar and Dempsey are not really compatable. Oscar is from south america which has soft more acid water. Dempsey is from central america which has harder water with a higher PH. What is your tap water like. I would pick a fish that does best in your tap water so you don't need to worry about chemistry at water change time.


Ok I've had both together did fine. The ph levels of South and Central America are relatively close. An oscar is best from 6-8 ph a dempseys 7-8. Don't buy the cichlid substrate that's for African cichlids which need hard water and high ph. African cichlids are from the rift lakes: Malawi, Taganyika, and Victoria. That substrate helps keep water at higher ph and harder water. Most fish are fine in water straight out your faucet being it's usually a neutral ph. Now I'm not going to tell you what can fit in your tank but those fish CAN go along and their ph and hardness is not critical. And it's also not just what continent they're from it's what water source. Africa has the rift lakes as I mentioned but they also have places like lake Congo or is that Congo river(I dunno) that has very soft acidic water. The only FW fish right off the top of my head that you really need to worry about ph and hardness would be African cichlids(very hard high ph) and discus(very soft low ph). Unless if your breeding than with most of the common fish it's not a big deal


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

*Ph*



DUSTIN323 said:


> The ph levels of South and Central America are relatively close. l


This is a general statement that is just not true. The PH of South American waters are generally much lower and softer than Central American. I do agree that in an aquarium, Oscars and Dempseys can "tolerate" similar water conditions and do OK together. BUT, if you will reread the original question Dustin, PH is a major concern to Dregg. If someone is trying to choose between an Oscar and a Dempsey, I think that local water conditions ( PH and softness ) should at least be considered. Dreggs concern over PH is very intellegent. I personally like Lisa's idea of two Oscars. Not only would it be a nice tank but you may end up with a spawning pair. Out of curiosity tho, Dregg, have you tested your water ( PH & hardness )?


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## DUSTIN323 (Sep 21, 2005)

Ok I know that South America is softer and more acidic and I agreed with you on that. He stated that he had been out of the hobby for a while and I think that he was possibly mixing up in his head the water needs of African cichlids with American, being that he wanted to know about a cichlid substrate all of them that I have seen raise ph and alkalinity and on the bags it don't really state for African cichlids not just any type of cichlid. So I was just making sure that he was not confusing the two. IMO generally Ph is not a big concern for American cichlids(excluding discus) unless if you're breeding them. Most aquarium fish do fine at a neutral ph so you can keep many from different waters that slightly vary. Explanation: oscars,6-8 dempseys,7-8 aquarium needs to be around 7 for both in the same tank and they will thrive maybe not breed but he didn't state that. Not trying to argue with you just saying what I think


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

DUSTIN323 Ph is not a big concern for American cichlids(excluding discus) unless if you're breeding them. [/QUOTE said:


> Another general statement that's not true. Actually I think this is an issue that should get more attention than it does..... "my fish are doing fine" I don't know what my PH is, so what", is the attitude of many. The truth is that fish will try to adapt to whatever water they are in. They don't have much choice, do they? Some fish can do this better than others. You said that PH is more of a concern "if you want to breed them". Think about that for a second. Fish live to survive, eat and reproduce. That's about all they have. So if they are not comfortable enough to spawn, then they have a problem. It's our job as hobbyist to find out as much as we can about our fish and to make them as comfortable as possible. BTW, in my opinion, hardness is more important than PH, but that's another topic. Sorry, Dustin for jumping on you, but this is kind of a pet peeve of mine. Please forgive me.


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## DUSTIN323 (Sep 21, 2005)

I agree with you in a way if you think about it that's true something is wrong if they won't spawn because they will where they're from you've got a point there I was just saying that most people aren't concerned about their ph unless if breeding or keeping species like Africans or discus. You have a good point I'll admit that but I also have a point too. Because you can keep these two fishes together but then again you have a point also and that's fine. I don't feel like you were jumping on me niether so that's fine actually you seem like one of the few people that can have your opinon challenged and challenge others without getiing offended like some do.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Thank's Dustin. I see you are from Louisiana. I hope you and your family are OK.


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## DUSTIN323 (Sep 21, 2005)

Oh yeah were fine, thanks for asking.


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