# fish dying



## Conodor (Feb 1, 2005)

last sunday i got a 150 gallon tank with 10 fish in it, i trasfered as much water as i could to get the bacteria. well the fish seemed to do fine after the move. about the 3rd day the water turned cloudy, and i kept an eye on the water and the fish. i didn't have a test kit so i took a sample to the local pet shop (bought a kit while there) they said my amonia was leathal. i added some reccomended chemicals. sorry at work now but it was called something like zime number 7. i was suggested to use 2 or 3 bottles. i put 2 in there, the next day i used my new test kit and it was still very high, so i put my 3rd bottle, checked about 12 hours later... STILL high! so no it's past pet shop hours and i notice i have another chemical i bought to help trasfer the fish something named amon clean or something. now it's down to the 1 ppm. 

ok that was friday, saturday i had to go out of town, came back sunday to see one of my fish a african chiclid about 8 inches or so and he's not doing so hot. i check the amonia and it's still about 1ppm, i check the PH and it's very low. about 6.4 so i make a quick run to buy some "ph increaser" by the time i got back my fish didn't make it. i added the PH increaser another fish didn't look so hot, by the morning he didn't make it. I did another PH test and it was about 6.6

(sorry for the length just wanted to give you all info!)

the only other thing i put in was some chemical for taking away clowdy ness. 

so my questions are... do you think the fish are dying due to the low PH? or the bad amonia for those few days? and what's my goal amonia level 0? and from what i read about my fish my PH should be at least 7.0 i believe below is a list of my fish... well the fish i had! thanks... 

tahnks very much for your time and any help.

1 12” SHOVELNOSE CATFISH 
1 6” SHOVELNOSE CATFISH (died this morning)
2 12” GARPIKE’S 
1 8” OSCAR 
1 6” PIKE CICHLID 
2 6” BLACK/BLUE/SLIGHTLY YELLOW AFRICAN CICHLID’S (1 died last night)
1 7” PACU 
1 6” MISC CATFISH 
1 12” RUBBERWORM (POSSIBLY I CAN NEVER FIND HIM) 
1 5” RAPHELIA CATFISH


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I could be wrong but I think even that tank is overstocked.
Transferring water from one tank will not transfer bacteria.  Its contained in the gravel, and the filter cartridges.  Your tank probably went into shock.

Test your water readings again.


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## Conodor (Feb 1, 2005)

Thanks, i will check it again, and again until i get it in order. i really didn't want a tank with fish, but i got a great deal so i figured why not...

any site i can find what my tests should be at? i have a test kit that tests, amonia, PH, nitrate, nitrite and something else..

but i don't know what it all should be at.


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## hogan (Jan 18, 2005)

Ok for the tests the ammonia should be at 0, nitrate not too high, and nitrite 0 ph with thoughs guys should be around a 7.2-7.8 not a huge issue right now though unless its off the charts. ALso the fish you have togethor in that tank may not go to well togethor like the africans and SA cichlids


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Best to seed the filter with filter medium from another tank to prevent high ammonia levels.


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

Not trying to be insulting, but you did almost everything wrong you could have. I have a great site for new fishkeepers which you should visit and then read through at least twice. Click on *Your First Aquarium* here http://fins.actwin.com/aquariafaq.html


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## Conodor (Feb 1, 2005)

oh i'm sure i did go about it completely wrong. i wanted to buy a new tank without fish, the fish were in it so i didn't have a choice since i got a good deal.

went back up to the pet store and was told since the nitrates and nitrites are so high there is something wrong with the water and i should do a 50% water change, clean the filter, stir up the gravel make sure no dead roting fish in there, and refill it and test again tomorrow. he gave me another chemical to help start the biological system in there. i'm hoping this will help.

i really wish the tank was just empty so i could have started from fresh... oh well!


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## Eustace (Jan 19, 2005)

You are really going the wrong way on a one way street.

Your fish might not be that happy fromn being transported, so keep that in mind.

Firstly, you want to have your three N's on 0.

Secondly, any Ammonia spikes you have, water change is the key. With such a high ammonia level which you had we are talking around 50%, stirring up the gravel, and removing algea in the process. Not only will this rid you of your ammonia problem but also bring a breath of fresh air to your fish. 

Another reason i'd suggest such a large water change is to remove those chemicals you've added. A word or warning, do not use chemicals. Only exception to this will be as medications, and even then it's only White Spot you should stock up on. Sure some chemicals might bring down ammonia slightly, but not entirely. It's a temporary solution. You need to fight the source. This could be fish waste from your larger fish (in this case weekly water changes is a must), overfeeding, dead plants, dead fish, etc. You need to remove anything from the gravel or filter that might be rotting.

Chemicals being added may benefit short term, but nothing more. All constant chemical adding will do is build up Osmotic pressure, which will inevertably result in Osmotic stress for your fish, possibly leading them to death. 

Like I said, the only exception for having chemicals is Whit Spot Treatment. The rest can be done alternatively. Fit rot, Snail control, Green away, etc, all of them.

Your fish will be alot happier after this water change.

(Note: I'm not including De-Chlorinator)


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## garfieldnfish (Jan 18, 2005)

You said you bought the tank with the fish? Did it also come with the decor and filter and gravel or did you add that stuff new? If you kept some of the old tank water with the gravel in the tank the biobugs should have survived. Same with the filter if it was transported in tank water. If not you could buy biospira it's supposed to instantly cycle your tank. It essentially a bag of biobugs. Sounds like you spend a lot of money (150 gal tank and those fish probably were not cheap) you may want to spend a little more on this product (it's not cheap and your LFS most likely will have to order it for you. It needs refridgeration and has a short shelf life, so most stores do not keep it in stock or you can order it on line) and safe some of the fish you now have. I have never used it myself since I always started the tanks with a small fishload and seeded them with gravel from an established trank put into a sock to give the cycling a headstart. If you know someone that has a tank, you may do that as well. It helps but does not instantly cycle your tank, but reduced the time by much. Also I personally would not use PH adjusters. If your water is considerably different that what they were used to I might use a little to slowly get them used to yours but then stop using it once it reached your natural level. Unless you want to breed fish, they usually adjust to a less then for their species perfect PH better then having a fluctuating PH level. That is much worse for fish then a stable, less then ideal one.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

If you aren't close with the fish yet, you may want to try selling them back to the lfs. At worst, you will get great store credit as some of those fish are very large and in demand. (People here buy anything that is over 8 inches as they don't want to wait for them to grow up). This can be used to restock your tank, and purchase other items such as better filtration, new heaters (good idea), foods, and maybe even lighting. You will also recoup some of the costs of the tan kyou purchased. Just remember one thing. At least it isn't leaking! *knock* *knock*


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## osteoporoosi (Jan 27, 2005)

If you used the old gravel (and it was in good condition, not dry, etc.)
I can't figure out why you are having these problems.
About the fish: pacu grows too big for the tank, and it creates a huge amount of waste.

here's a good pic:
http://www.findesemanatv.com.ar/pacu.jpg

also the shovelnose catfish is unsuitable for your tank. Links:
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Pseudoplatystoma_fasciatum.php
http://www.planetcatfish.com/images/full/pimelodidae/pseudoplatystoma/fasciatum/4.jpg

I don't know much about the other fish you got, hope you can sort this problem out.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

1 12” SHOVELNOSE CATFISH 
1 6” SHOVELNOSE CATFISH (died this morning) 
2 12” GARPIKE’S 
1 8” OSCAR 
1 6” PIKE CICHLID 
2 6” BLACK/BLUE/SLIGHTLY YELLOW AFRICAN CICHLID’S (1 died last night) 
1 7” PACU 
1 6” MISC CATFISH 
1 12” RUBBERWORM (POSSIBLY I CAN NEVER FIND HIM) 
1 5” RAPHELIA CATFISH

Holy over stocked! Who ever sold you this setup terribly led you the wrong direction. THAT PACU ALONE will need 250 gallons by the time its done growing. 22". I would get rid of a few fish at least if not all for now to do another cycle on the tank.


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## aurora_skys (Feb 8, 2005)

man, im kind of surprised this tank hasnt turned into a scene from mortal kombat... 
you mentioned something about chemicals to get the biocycle going? i wouldnt put much stock in these products as no ones ever really proven that they work.. the best way to get you tank established is using already established gravel, and you can also take the filter out of someone elses tank and squeeze the charcoal out into you filters. that way you actually get the bacteria responsible for filtration. but really the whole process takes time. theres only so much you can do to speed it up.
i agree with the others - sell those fish!
and dont worry too much about your ph for now. certainly fish dont like unsatisfactory ph, but its easier for them to deal with than ph swings, which is what "ph down" and "ph up" products will cause.
keep in mind! the people at your lfs, when it all boils down, do not care about your tank. they are businessmen and women first and their goal is to sell you as many things as possible - even if you dont need them.


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## Conodor (Feb 1, 2005)

Thanks everyone for posting here. i've read all these posts, suggestions and sites. they have been very helpfull. i knew i was in for a handfull with getting a tank this size, but when i figured i was getting the fish i knew i was in for a few weeks of hell! i have very limited aqurium experience in the past and was planing to take the long road and do it right. but getting the fish changed all that. 

tomorrow, i'll run up to the pet store and see what kind of deal i can work out with the larger fish and jsut hold off on replacing anything until the tank is stable. 

I'm sure i'll be back for types of fish at that point. haha thanks for all your help!


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## MB75 (Jan 24, 2005)

As long as you have fish in the tank and high nitrite, do large water changes daily. This is first-aid for the fish.


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## Conodor (Feb 1, 2005)

i just don't get it all my readings are in the "ok" range and the fish are still not doing so hot. my pacu died and the other fish appear to be gasping.

i'm doing another water change to get me though the night...


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