# Help Needed!! Clown loach issue.



## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

So i have noticed the past 2 or 3 days my fish are not eating as much as usual, but tonight i noticed that one of my loaches fins seem to be deteriorating. From what ive ready online it seems to be fin rot but im not 100% sure, the fins almost look like they are turning "stringy" the top fin is more flat that pointy. What should i do to fix this, or is there anything i can do.

Also i do not have another tank here to where i can isolate the fish from one another. 

Thanks in advance


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Fins can be damaged by other fish, by bad water (high ammonia or low pH), or most commonly by disease. Fin rot is usually bacterial. I would suggest a big water change followed by a medication to treat for fin rot. Watch the fish for signs that one fish is biting another's fins.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

they seem to get along, never seen them attack each other, plus its only on one fish, id assume if they were fighting the other would do something back. ammonia and ph are fine, same they have always been, my water rarely goes out of the norm, its been running since march. and what medication should i use being these are scaleless fish and meds can harm these fish from what ive been told on here.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

the anti bacterial isn't going to be as hard on them as say anti fungal meds but wait for emc7 to reply you may want to do a lowered dosage.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

I've used the fin rot medication that is made from tea tree oil (melafix I think?) at a 1/2 dose when my raspboras had fin rot (they came with it from petsmart and I didn't know to be concerned about it). I had loaches in the same tank and they were not impacted by the medication. I chose a 1/2 dose because I was worried about the loaches, but perhaps someone else knows if a full dose would be okay with loaches.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

sbetsy said:


> I've used the fin rot medication that is made from tea tree oil (melafix I think?) at a 1/2 dose when my raspboras had fin rot (they came with it from petsmart and I didn't know to be concerned about it). I had loaches in the same tank and they were not impacted by the medication. I chose a 1/2 dose because I was worried about the loaches, but perhaps someone else knows if a full dose would be okay with loaches.


I purchased the melafix stuff today, a guy at a local pet store where i buy my fish told me thats what i need to use, he said it didnt need to be a half dose, just follow as instructed. Hopefully this works. He also told me to take out my filter, leave it running, just take the "cloth" in it out, which i did. He told me to set this aside until im done with the medication. Is this all the correct steps?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

melafix is all natural so it doesn't irritate the loaches as much but being all natural it isn't quite as affective as other meds and typically makes a much better preventative medicine and not for treating medicine. taking out the filter media is taking out your bacteria watch for a spike. anti bacterial meds can mess with your biological but i think its better than completely removing the bacteria all at once. the reason he told you to is so that the activated carbon doesn't remove the meds. how old is your filter bag if its older than a month than the activated carbon is probably no longer "active" and i would leave it in. otherwise cut open the filter bag and dump the carbon out and put the filter sponge back in because u need that bacteria or your tank is going to spike and recycle.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> melafix is all natural so it doesn't irritate the loaches as much but being all natural it isn't quite as affective as other meds and typically makes a much better preventative medicine and not for treating medicine. taking out the filter media is taking out your bacteria watch for a spike. anti bacterial meds can mess with your biological but i think its better than completely removing the bacteria all at once. the reason he told you to is so that the activated carbon doesn't remove the meds. how old is your filter bag if its older than a month than the activated carbon is probably no longer "active" and i would leave it in. otherwise cut open the filter bag and dump the carbon out and put the filter sponge back in because u need that bacteria or your tank is going to spike and recycle.


I dont have a filter bag just the little blue inserts,should i put them back in? and am i supposed to have a carbon bag?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

what little blue inserts are u talking about? if you dont have carbon i would put them back in. and carbon is only needed if you have to remove chemicals from your tank.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Yes - what Revolution said. There is probably carbon in the bag you are describing. How old is that bag?


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## Peeps (May 24, 2010)

I think I know what your talking about and it has carbon in it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If its a "cartridge", with blue floss, a plastic back and carbon in the middle. Take a knife, slit the blue stuff, dump the carbon (black rocks) out and put it back in the filter. After you are done medicating, put in a new cartridge and the fresh carbon will get out any residual med.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

i can recheck the filter cartridge, but i did not see any carbon in it, either way the cartridges are around 6 months old, but the cartridges are back in there, ill check for carbon in them again tonight


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Melafix rocks, I've always had great results against fungus with it.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

If the cartridges are that old I doubt that they are a problem. It's the newer carbon that really pulls the meds out of the water, I think. In the future though, it might be a good idea to replace the carbon filter more frequently to prevent future disease outbreaks.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

sbetsy said:


> If the cartridges are that old I doubt that they are a problem. It's the newer carbon that really pulls the meds out of the water, I think. In the future though, it might be a good idea to replace the carbon filter more frequently to prevent future disease outbreaks.


well i cut the cartidges open the other night and theres no carbon rocks in them, i know what yall are talking about but my filter doesnt have them.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

so the melafix seemed to work, his fins are in the process of growing back however, im noticing my fish arent eating at all, there are probably around 12 pieces of food they havent eatin in my tank, which is 6 days worth, and i did my last water change 6 days ago, not only that, ive noticed they werent eating as much so i cut the food portions in half, only half a wafer between both of them. so they are getting half the amount of food and still not eating it. id like to know if there is anything i can do, they are still alive and look to be healthy (fins healing, full of color) and the other thing ive noticed is they swim around up top vs mostly hiding or in the bottom as they were. this started around the time when the fin rot kicked in.btw the food is tropical wafers which were recommended to me for clown loaches.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

anyone know whats going on?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

are you talking about algae waffers? because if so clown loaches are going to be more interested in more meaty foods liks shrimp pellets and such. they may be seaking out other food sources such as left over flakes and stuff. if they arn't eating at all i would concider dropsy but see if they eat other stuff first.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

My loaches like shrimp pellets best - sinking shrimp pellets. So you really don't have carbon in your filters at all? That might be causing some poor water issues? I don't know, is there an alternative to carbon that has the same effect?


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> are you talking about algae waffers? because if so clown loaches are going to be more interested in more meaty foods liks shrimp pellets and such. they may be seaking out other food sources such as left over flakes and stuff. if they arn't eating at all i would concider dropsy but see if they eat other stuff first.


not algea wafers, like i said they are tropical wafers, heres a link http://www.vitacost.com/Ocean-Nutrition-Tropical-Wafers, theyre made for clown loaches, it was recommended to me when i bought them, ive also tried shrimp pellets still the same effect. and if it was dropsy wouldnt they look swollen, these guys look fine, ones growing some fins in right now but they arent swollen up. and previously between both of them they were eating a half of a wafer a piece per meal.



sbetsy said:


> My loaches like shrimp pellets best - sinking shrimp pellets. So you really don't have carbon in your filters at all? That might be causing some poor water issues? I don't know, is there an alternative to carbon that has the same effect?


i cut the filter cartridges open, no carbon at all. and my water tests out fine with two different test kits, so im not really sure whats going on, maybe theyre trying to be anorexic, who knows.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Here is a link I found about the different types of filters and what they do (bio, mechanical and chemical): http://www.firsttankguide.net/filters.php
Not sure if that will be helpful with your current situation. Sounds like you've got appropriate loach food and if they used to eat it but they aren't now, I'd imagine that there is some kind of problem that is to blame. But if they are starting to get better in other ways, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe they have some sort of internal parasite? Good luck!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

all the fish i have ever dealed with that have dropsy probably 80% of them never had a swollen body they were just hiding and not eating and laying around. on our disease chart at work it says fish may be bloated so its not a guarenteed symptom of dropsy.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

sbetsy said:


> Here is a link I found about the different types of filters and what they do (bio, mechanical and chemical): http://www.firsttankguide.net/filters.php
> Not sure if that will be helpful with your current situation. Sounds like you've got appropriate loach food and if they used to eat it but they aren't now, I'd imagine that there is some kind of problem that is to blame. But if they are starting to get better in other ways, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe they have some sort of internal parasite? Good luck!


Yeah im hoping its something not serious, but if they dont start eating soon, they arent gonna make it.



Revolution1221 said:


> all the fish i have ever dealed with that have dropsy probably 80% of them never had a swollen body they were just hiding and not eating and laying around. on our disease chart at work it says fish may be bloated so its not a guarenteed symptom of dropsy.


these loaches stay swimming at the top, not hiding at all, thats what confuses me, they stay with their mouths facing the top of the tank, the top of their body seems to actually be at the top of the water at some points, rarely do they swim all the way to the bottom


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

so being there is no improvement, i decided tonight to take a quick video to show you guys what i see every night when i come home. this is how they've been acting since the fin rot kicked in but thats definitely healing up. they are like this almost everytime i look at the tank, and usually the smaller one is always swimming face up like the slightly larger one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA4WoFnvMl0


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

they do seem to be acting slow and lethargic i dont remember if i asked but have u have your water tested? also i noticed you have a really crapy unreliable thermometer i would recomend getting a new better thermometer and just make sure your temp is at a good level.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> they do seem to be acting slow and lethargic i dont remember if i asked but have u have your water tested? also i noticed you have a really crapy unreliable thermometer i would recomend getting a new better thermometer and just make sure your temp is at a good level.


i test my water at least once i week, and i agree with the thermometer, but typically my water is around 78, sometimes lower, sometimes warmer, depends on how hot my room gets. moneys a bit tight right now to get a digital one, and i have to go buy more melafix once i have a day off because the fin rot on the smaller one is coming back. idk what to do anymore with these guys, had ive known they would be this hard to take care of i wouldve gotten a betta...


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

do a 50% water change..increase temps to 82-84 degrees F......increase aeration and/or filtration rate....
your fish can go 2-3 weeks without food and be just fine...
also treat 2-3 times a week with the melafix.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

lohachata said:


> do a 50% water change..increase temps to 82-84 degrees F......increase aeration and/or filtration rate....
> your fish can go 2-3 weeks without food and be just fine...
> also treat 2-3 times a week with the melafix.


how do i increase my filtration rate?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

add another filter or get a bigger one. u can get a good glass thermometer for $2-$4


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> add another filter or get a bigger one. u can get a good glass thermometer for $2-$4


oh, well i cannot afford a new filter.i can barely afford gas and food for myself at the moment


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

well they both started eating a few days ago, the one that never got fin rot is doing great eats around one algea wafer by himself each meal, the other....well, ill be surprised if he makes it. Everyday he just lays down somewhere on the rocks, doesnt move much if at all, i have to put a net in there and move him sometimes just to see if hes alive.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

figured id post an update, after almost 2 weeks of one loach laying on the floor of my tank, the store i bought him from said itd be best to go ahead and flush him being it wasnt getting any better, i now have another loach which apparently had ich, i bought some treatment yesterday and it seems to be helping so far, im using quick cure


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Eeek - they told you to flush him? Oh dear. You know, if he was really sick, it's not ideal to flush them because then whatever they have might get into our water supply. Also, that doesn't sound very humane! There are more humane ways to euthanize fish if you find yourself in that situation in the future. I'm sorry to hear that your new loach as ich. Be careful with loaches and ich meds - they can be very sensitive. I used one of the ones that is blue or green - I can't remember exactly but it is in the archives here somewhere. Anyway, it killed my loaches, even at a 1/2 dose. Then I got new loaches, which also came with ich (gotta love that crappy Petsmart) and this time I tried copper (again 1/2 dose) and all but 1 loach survived. I think the first loach was just too sick by the time we started the copper. Well, talk to us in the future before you flush any more fish! Lots of people here may be willing/able to help you!


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

well theres no way it could get in our water system because of our septic tank, but the reason i went to the fish store for help was because i posted on here like 2 weeks ago and noone replied, so i just went to the experts.and ill be sure to keep and eye out for my fishes safety with the meds, mines a blue liquid too...


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

If they start to look really bad, do a water change. Did you do a full or half dose? I can't remember - do you have live plants in the tank?


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

full, and i have a few live plants, i dont leave the light on the tank and its not too close to a window but i do leave my blinds up dring the day to bring in natural light


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Watch very carefully with that full dose - do a 50% water change if things start to look bad. Loaches sometimes need a 1/2 dose. I asked about the plants b/c if you ever use copper in the future (which probably isn't a great idea now b/c you already have meds in there and combining them might be bad) you'll want to remove the plants temporarily until the copper is gone - copper kills plants. But you don't have to worry about that with your meds (I don't think). Keep us posted! Oh - and what temperature is your water?


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

I did a half dose yesterday, the ich seemed to be gone, i did another half dose tonight just incase, and my water is around 80 to 82 which i was informed to keep it at.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Your temperature sounds good. Ich takes a long time to cure though - following the dosing instructions (for # of days) on the bottle. You can only kill ich during one of its reproductive phases so you must make sure that you drug for long enough so that you capture all the remaining ich _while it it in that particular life stage_. The ich life cycle last different durations depending on the temperature of your tank (higher temp, shorter cycle). Read up on ich online. You do not want to stop meds before you get rid of all of the ich.


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

its been 4 or 5 days since i began treatment, the bottle says minimum 3 days, is this long enough or should i at least go for a week? and should i drop the temp down after treatment


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## ur2high (May 10, 2010)

stopped treatment today, did a water change, and dropped the temp back down to 78. fish seem to be a little stressed, maybe itll be better tomorrow


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