# brown stuff on all my plants



## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

Hello, i have a 55 gallon heavily planted tank. i have cabombas, ferns and lugwigia repens. i have them planted on a gravel substrate. i also use diy co2 during the day and suspend durring the night. right now i have a 54 watt T5 HO light. i also have a uv sterilizer and a canister filter. the plants are growing fast. i use florish fertilizer and liquid iron enrichment. the florish, i use 2 times a week and the iron enrichment maybe once a week. However i have started using them only recently. i started the supplementation when i started noticing that the leaves on the lugwigia were turning brown. with a closer look, i noticed that the leaves have a brown film of sorts. only the leaves have this and it can rub off. the leaves at that point were looking well once the powdery film was removed but now the leaves are turning brown and looking like they are wilting. i dont know if this is an algae problem or some kind of fungus. i maintain regularly the tank and watch the perameters carefully. all my levels are normal. the tank contains guramis, cat fish, angels, placo, and 2 chinese algae eaters. what can i do to get my plants healthy? although the plants are looking bad, they still grow and need regular pruning. i leave the lights on for about 10-12 hour for the plants. the tank is well established (about 9 months) please someone help!!!


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## pullins125 (Mar 17, 2008)

i had the same thing happen to me. from what they told me reduce lighting period and then add a powerhead. also check for dead plants and/or leaves they could be causing it. i used a sciffener to get all mine out. is there also stuff on the bottom kinda like a ball of dirt.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

What is a sciffener?


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## fishboy23 (Feb 18, 2006)

a very poorly spelled version of a siphon hose (siphon-er)


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

well, i have currently put my timer from 12 hours to 10 hours. i fear that if i put any less light time, my plants will die. any clue of what this is? i cleaned my tank 3 days ago with a "siphon hose" and no leaves came off, so i think they can still be alive. but they just look crappy. i did a 50% water change monday. the plants now seem a tiny bit better but still working on it. i havent used florish or the iron enrichment liquid since. i did not vacuumed the substrate cause i know that the plants need the mulm on the bottom. i have a power head connected to my uv sterilizer and its on all the time, its not very powerfull though. am i doing things right?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

trashion said:


> What is a sciffener?


Julie: (See old dogs can learn new tricks!)

Glad that you asked the question as I was smooth wore out googling!




fishboy23 said:


> a very poorly spelled version of a siphon hose (siphon-er)


fb:

You did good!

After a solid hour of googling I believed that I had thought through all other possibilities.




Tankscaper said:


> am i doing things right?


Ts:

Please excuse the way I answer you (and this is just West Texan) but this is a rhetorical question. If you were "doing things right" you would not have "brown stuff" on your plants.

I believe that the question which you intended to ask is "What am I doing wrong" and I cannot answer that with the information which you have furnished but as much homework as you have done I and other members of the Forum (who btw are much better than I) can probably help here a bunch.




Tankscaper said:


> well, i have currently put my timer from 12 hours to 10 hours. i fear that if i put any less light time, my plants will die.


This is probably a "smooth move" but

[1] What type of lighting do you have (ie. PC, MH, T5, etc) and what is the wattage of the lighting?

[2] How many and what are the K value of the bulbs which you are currently implementing?
 


Tankscaper said:


> any clue of what this is?


Yes but I do not want to lead you down a very bad path with incorrect input due to lack of information.




Tankscaper said:


> i cleaned my tank 3 days ago with a "siphon hose" and no leaves came off, so i think they can still be alive. but they just look crappy.


and????
when you begin "operating at the level which you are" s....t happens (does to everyone).




Tankscaper said:


> i did a 50% water change monday. the plants now seem a tiny bit better ...


Please quit doing these 50% WC's as your fishies do not enjoy them and they are not helping your plants.




Tankscaper said:


> i havent used florish or the iron enrichment liquid since.


This is good. Please do not put anything into your tank other than RO water or dechlorinated tap water until we get this figured out.




Tankscaper said:


> i did not vacuumed the substrate cause i know that the plants need the mulm on the bottom.


Please get this Internet Hype out of your head!

We can discuss this further after the "brown stuff" goes away (hopefully).

For now please do not touch this "mulm" as this will probably exacerbate the problem.





Tankscaper said:


> i have a power head connected to my uv sterilizer and its on all the time, its not very powerfull though.



[3] Why do you have this UV sterilizer in your tank?
 
Additional Item For Now


[4] What type of filtration equipment do you employ?
TR


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

Thank you for your responce. Here are the answers to these questions...

(1) I have a T5 HO lighting system 48 inches long 54 watt single bulb 

(2) I dont know the k value of this light. How do I measure this k value? I know its 
manufactured by GLO and it tends to go to the blue side of the spectrum. Its not 
for reef tanks. It said it was for optimal plant growth.

(3) I had a very bad bout with ich (in my aquarium) 7 or 8 months ago and was advised to get one. Many lives were taken. Plus
it keeps my water clear looking.

(4) I have a canister filter with a spray bar. In the canister contains activated carbon for chemical filtration, ceramic tubes for boi filtration and sponges for mechanical filtration


Extra info: I was doing water changes due to my phosphate levels. At one point I had 0.50 ppm. At this point its between 0.25 and 0.00 ppm. 

I dont use RO water, i use dechlorinated water in all my tanks. i havent done a water change in a week and the plants look bad...

i really appriciate the time you've taken to solve my problem 

thanks


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Found this on a site I trust.

Causes of brown algae: 
Excess silicates & nitrates
Inadequate light
Low oxygen levels 

Brown algae is a common occurrence in a newly set up aquarium. It is generally caused by too little light, an excess of silicates, an abundance of nutrients, and too little oxygen. Silicates can build up through tap water that is high in silicic acid, and silicates that leech from some types of substrates.

So these things lead me to belive that 
1. You may have a fairly new aquarium setup?
2. By inadequate light it could mean intensity not necessarly hours of light. That is why Jones was asking about wattage and K value.
3.With low oxygen levels - it should be ok with all the water changes you have been doing and the co2
4. Silicates and Nitrates - This could be comming from your tap or even leaching from some of the stones and such from your tank. 

If you have a test kit try testing water from your tap and putting some of the rock from your tank into a bucket and letting it sit for a day and testing the water from the bucket.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

TS: Many comments but no real joy for you from me here.



Tankscaper said:


> {1) I have a T5 HO lighting system 48 inches long 54 watt single bulb


I have had a very nice planted tank with 1WPG and did not have the brown growth which you described.




Tankscaper said:


> (2) I dont know the k value of this light. How do I measure this k value? I know its manufactured by GLO and it tends to go to the blue side of the spectrum. Its not for reef tanks. It said it was for optimal plant growth.


I do not know of a method whereby a typical fish keeper can determine the K value of a lamp but I believe, from your description, your lamp is a 7100K/10000K combo which would emit a blueish tinted white light.




Tankscaper said:


> (3) I had a very bad bout with ich (in my aquarium) 7 or 8 months ago and was advised to get one. Many lives were taken. Plus it keeps my water clear looking.


This one is up to you but I will give you my thoughts on this issue.

UV sterilization is not present in nature and it is lethal to pathogens but also to beneficial bacteria.

Biological and mechanical filtration is present in nature and the appropriate use thereof will yield "clear looking water".

I do not employ UV sterilization.




Tankscaper said:


> (4) I have a canister filter with a spray bar. In the canister contains activated carbon for chemical filtration, ceramic tubes for boi filtration and sponges for mechanical filtration


I have limited experience with cannister filters.

Once again chemical filtration is not present in nature (or only to a very, very limited extent).

IMHO activated carbon functions as chemical filtration media for a period of 7 to 21 days subsequent to which it functions as mechanical or biological filtration media.

I do not employ activated carbon in my typical filtration process.




Tankscaper said:


> Extra info: I was doing water changes due to my phosphate levels. At one point I had 0.50 ppm. At this point its between 0.25 and 0.00 ppm.


IMHO this is probably what "set off" the problem.

During my early periods of experimenting with dry ferts I got way too much phosphates in a solution and endured several months of grief dealing with my "slobbering up".




Tankscaper said:


> I dont use RO water, i use dechlorinated water in all my tanks. i havent done a water change in a week and the plants look bad...





Tankscaper said:


> However i have started using them only recently. i started the supplementation when i started noticing that the leaves on the lugwigia were turning brown


Ts:

While preparing this post I reviewed the posts in thread in detail.

I believe that I was incorrect in my original post (h...l everyone slobbers up every now and then).

With the significant phosphates present and the serious concentration of micronutrients and iron which you induced who knows what will happen (well you do as you are "enjoying" it).

Have you "put anything else into that tank which you have not posted"?

If not you might consider 25% bidaily WC's for a week or so in order to get back to a "baseline condition" and then us working on the condition prior to your inducing ferts into the tank.

TR


BTW:

The theory of plant health and growth yields minimal algae is generally true but with the induction of ferts is not universally so.


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks you guys for the help. o.k. here is what i have as of today. i have not fert the tank with anything since my last water change. the only thing i have put in it was the conditioner when i changed the water. i may have put in some stress zyme, but dont remember if i did or not. i currently have blue green algae growing on a resin stone i have in the middle of my tank and on some of the river stones also decorating the tank. my light is on a 12 hour cycle. Is 7100K/10000K lighting system ok for my tank? today i noticed orange silt on some of the gravel closest to the glass right under the surface of the gravel. i think its rust. i dont have anything metal in the gravel, but i think its the remnence on the iron fert i was giving it before. i havent done a water test yet cuase i just came from work, but i will do one ASAP and post the results. i have not dosed the tank with co2 for a week now, thinking that it might have been too much. on one side of the tank, the plants seem to look better that the other side. however the plants in general do not look well. some look like they are rotting from the inside out. some look wilted. some look fine but with a little green algae on the leaves. none of the plants are loosing leaves or have yellowing. one plant however, (my fern) looks brittle and has black patches on the leaves. i will also do a 25% water change and clean the filter. should i remove the activated carbon?


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

My current aquarium water test results

Phosphate: 0.0 - 0.25 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Ammonia: 0 ppm
pH: 7.4
Nitrite: 0 ppm
current temp: 80 degrees F


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Tankscaper said:


> should i remove the activated carbon?


Yes.

TR


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

ok... well i have taken out the carbon. will the water changes and the removal of the carbon resolve the plant problem?

is my water temp ok?

how long do i have to wait till the plants need ferts?

:help:


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

thank you guys for all the great addvice. you specialy jones57742. i have done everything you have ask me to do and my plants now are on the way to looking more healthy. the plants are brighter and cleaner looking. i have started to dose the tank with co2. they seem to be prospering. 
thanks again...


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Tankscaper said:


> how long do i have to wait till the plants need ferts?





Tankscaper said:


> i have started to dose the tank with co2


Ts:

Please excuse me as I lost your 11/05 post from my CP apparently due to another long winded post which I was preparing and did not pick it up when I was having to go through the boards.

Former members of the Forum "lived and breathed" the concept of dosing CO2 and they were talking about 20 to 30PPM.

The instability of the tank ecosystem at this concentration of CO2 is significant and is, IMHO, counterproductive for "normal folks" like us.

I employ DIY CO2 injection and attempt to maintain a CO2 concentration of 5PPM in my ecosystem which is obviously micro compared to nature (btw: in nature a typical CO2 concentration is 2PPM).

WRT ferts I would let your tank continue as it is for a week or so in order to attain a fairly uniform steady state condition but in the meantime I would also read and understand the information set forth at *Rex Grigg's Site* and order your dry ferts from the *Kauffmans*.

You will also need to download *Chuck Gadd's Windows Calculator*.

I do not mean to sound nasty here but *whatever you do* do not put the concentrations of fertilizers recommended on Rex's site into your tank as you will be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire (have been there, done that and got the tee shirt: many species of algae covering the surfaces in your tank including the plants but you can bearly observe this algae due to the green water).

When you believe that your plants have stabilized please post their condition and your water parameters and we can go through the appropriate fert concentrations.

TR


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## Tankscaper (Oct 26, 2008)

O.K. am back... sorry for taking so long in responding. i have been bussy doing some mods to my tank and waiting for good results. now here is what i have running in my tank as far as Co2 is conserned: DIY Co2 with a home made bubble counter and a powerhead. am dosing the tank at a rate of 4 to 6 bubbles a min. the powerhead does a good job at disperssing the Co2 and pushing it to the other side of the tank. the perameters of my water are far better than before. i have taken your advice and done bi-weekly water changes and the plants have shown much improvment. the only thing is that for some reason i still have a small probrlem with green algae growing on my Alternanthera reineckii (copperleaf). this only affects this plant. some of the leaves are just covered with algae. i proon these leaves but it shows up on other leaves. my tests dont show i have any phosphates. so what to do? 
thanks jones57742


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Tankscaper said:


> DIY Co2 with a home made bubble counter and a powerhead. am dosing the tank at a rate of 4 to 6 bubbles a min. the powerhead does a good job at disperssing the Co2 and pushing it to the other side of the tank.


Ts: Believe me that this is just my thinking here and I could be way, way off but it has proved effective for me although it is rudimentary.

The bubble counting was not effective for me with DIY as it did not correlate with what I am about to get into. I wound up just pushing the discharge tube from the CO2 generator approximately half way into the suction tube of my external wet/dry pump. This configuration creates suction on the surface of the solution in the CO2 reactor and I presume that your power head configuration does the same.

What I was after, and I presume you also, was 5ppm CO2. As I said although very rudimentary *Chuck Gadd's Calculator and Graph *will help a bunch here (I have been substantially able to reproduce CO2 concentrations within 20%).

I attempt to keep my CO2 concentration around 5ppm




Tankscaper said:


> the perameters of my water are far better than before. i have taken your advice and done bi-weekly water changes and the plants have shown much improvment.


Well we are cooking with gas and perhaps weekly 25% WC's may now be appropriate.




Tankscaper said:


> the only thing is that for some reason i still have a small probrlem with green algae growing on my Alternanthera reineckii (copperleaf). this only affects this plant. some of the leaves are just covered with algae. i proon these leaves but it shows up on other leaves. my tests dont show i have any phosphates. so what to do?


Ts:

If you have these growing at all and they are red tinted you are really cooking with gas here.

I cannot provide a "this is what you do and this will fix it" answer as previously since this is a slow growing plant and I am having a similar situation with some of my slow growing plants.


I do not know if you have ordered dry ferts yet but what I am doing is slowing increasing the concentration of potassium in my tank via the addition of K2SO4 (I did not "dream this up" as I read about this researching dry ferts many years ago.). This increasing concentration of K appears to be decreasing algae on my slow growing plants as well as to be improving the health and growth of my other plants.

TR


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