# just started



## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

Ok...I'm supposed to be ding HW right now, but I'll get to that.

Yesterday I emptied out my cichlid tank and sold back the fish (got $40 for em and only spent around 20 on them). I bought a bunch of stuff.

I now have:

Live sand
65lbs of live rock
2 AC50 powerheads
2 AC50 HOB's
visi-therm 200 watt heater

And it is all up and running. My friend at the store set me up with all of this and said to come back in 2 weeks with money for lighting and fish. This way the tank will be cycled and the reef can begin to get set up.

It is a 40 gallon breeder tank and this is my first try at a salt tank. It is very important that this works the first time cuz of the cash that has been dumped into this so far 

any suggestions or thoughts?


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Ummm, You say you are going back for lighting? What is going to keep the Live Rock alive if you don't have light?

Also, HOB filters are not the best for a marine tank. While they can work, You would be much better off with a Wet/Dry or Refugium.

Nobody is going to guarantee you success. Patience, Hard Work, Time and the RIGHT equipment will help but nothing is 100%!

You will aslo need a skimmer if you want any hope of success.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Agreed. I would take the HOB filters back and invest in a quality skimmer. You cannot overskim a tank so dont skimp on quality. N.O. lighting will keep the liverock alive so if you have some strip lights, just throw them on for now (1 10000K and 1 actinic 03 would be ideal).


----------



## PerculaClown (Apr 25, 2006)

i would defenetly skip the HOB and go for a sump/refugium. 
what type of light are you looking at?


----------



## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

...I was told to leave lights off of it for 2 weeks. I am not sayin I dont trust u guys, but this dude is a friend and if it screws up cuz of this he'll fix it w/ out cost to me. And where the HOB filters are concerned I already had them b/c of my cichlid tank (what this tank was before it) but if you say a good wet/dry is ideal, what exactly do u suggest? and what skimmer would you suggest?

oh and the live rock was cultured in the store in a big bucket w/ out any lighting...so how could it need lighiting to be alive if it was cultured w/ out any? not trying to attack, just understand

oh and thanks much for the quick responses. I am looking for suggestions, but where money is concerned I am having problems (yes I know not the best time to do this, but it is already too late  ) any ways, i just wanted to make sure u guys knew that I respect and need your suggestions even though i may not do them all b/c of my being a poor college student


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

That rock isn't very "Live" if it was cured without light. Granted, The Die Off from it would still have caused a cycle so it will have some bacteria but little else if any. I don't know how much I would trust the knowledge of this "friend" if this is how he does things. Alot of the Life on rock requires light to stay alive.

A wet/dry is best for a Fish only tank. A Refugium for a Reef tank. If you don't have a mint to spend but still want a decent skimmer get a Coralife Super Skimmer 65.


----------



## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

well I trust this friend pretty well. He has been running this fish store for a little over 4 years now, is a marine bio major, and is a # of these tanks at home, aside from the 15 million at the store 

I know this is going to be a stupid question, but then that's why this is in the beginner section, what exactly is a refugium? how much do they cost? and where can I get one?

Hey, thanks for the help! 

oh and the rock has this red and green stuff growing on it, not all over it, but it appears it will be soon...the tank does get some sunlight, none of which is direct, so...

I asked my friend to make sure about what he said w/ the lights and he said to leave them off or it would just cause a lot of excess algae.


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Running a store for 4 years doesn't mean someone knows what they are doing. No offense to him or anything but coraline algae needs light to grow. That's the good stuff you want. Also, Any "hitchiking" coral or macro algaes that are good all die without light.

ANYWAY.......A Refugium defined is: "An isolated area where extensive changes, typically due to changing climate (such as glaciation) but also due to large-scale disturbances such as those caused by humans, have not occurred and where plants and animals typical of a region may survive. Such a refuge is a center of relict forms from which dispersion and speciation may take place after environmental readjustment."

The best place to see a Refugium is www.melevsreef.com


----------



## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

come to chat


----------



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I would highly suggest you come into chat and talk with the saltwater folks about this... I have so much info to give you its hard to actually type it all without any immediate responses from you. 

I'd just like to say that your friend either skipped important days when they went over photosynthisis in corals and algaes in his bio classes. Rock that was "blacked out" for a few days can be horrible for the biodiversity that is on it. I would bet that this "red and green algaes" are most likely harmful such as cyno bacteria and hair or green spot algae.


----------



## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

i would suggest a coralife superskimmer needle whele which will set you back 80 bucks


----------



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

The only things I can think of that don't depend on lighting is A) crustaceans such as copepods and amphipods, B) Sponges C) Nitrofying bacteria

You are missing all of these since the liverock was not lighted
- most corals
- anemones
- clams
- coraline algaes as well as other algaes

the die of of these photosynthetic animals could have very well killed of several of the things that came on your liverock (sponges, pods, ect)... leaving liverock without light is never a good thing.


----------



## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

coraline algaes do not regrow if they've been wiped out by the dark spell


----------



## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

well then from what i am reading it is too late for my rock ne ways so there is nothing I can do about that. But from where it is now, once I put light on it wont the algae and such begin to grow?

and when you say harmful bacteria...harmful in what way?

im gonna head into chat for a few mins


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

If the coraline is completely dead (which can take awhile) then it wont grow, as stated above but other algae will. More importantly the life in the tank will begin to flourish. You can get coraline algae scraping from your friends tank(s). That will allow it to regrow. You want the rock to become "live" again along with the sand. Many critters help with filtration by eating debris and decaying organisms to prevent ammonia spikes which lead to nitrates. A cup of live sand will get things going also. It will add all the nice coepopods and possible some bristleworms to help out.


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Glad to see you guys got Bear in chat and are trying to get him on the right path. I was away from the computer for the last 30 mins. 

It's great to see so many great minds thinking alike.


----------



## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

I went into chat and that helped alot, so thanks for that  I will come back in at a later time, seeing as I am supposed to be doing HW right now

Oh, and where live sand is concerned, I have live sand. The only sand in my tank is live sand, 2 big bags of it.


----------



## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

ok, well i have a little update for the tank. On monday I think I should be buying another $40 worth of LR (about 20 lbs) leaving me with a total of 85lbs of live rock and the lighting.

The live rock that I have now is getting covered in red and green algae and the rock is set up in at sort of atoll style, where there is rock in a "c" shape leaving a sandy opening towards the front.

I was told by my friend that my main source of filtration will be the immense amount of liverock that is going to be in the tank. Right now the tank seems to be mroe than half full with LR and I would suspect that on monday afternoon it will definitely be full.

after reading a couple of books and web sites it seems that this LR filtration seems to work pretty well (but still does not exclude the need for a skimmer).

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Well, Your friend is right on that part at least! The LR will be the biological filtration. with that much LR, It will be all you need other than a skimmer.


----------



## mr.dark-saint (Aug 16, 2005)

So tell me since I wasn't in "chat" how you set this number up? Did you make a "Plenum" (like in H.A.N.D.Y. Method) or some take on Lee Chin Eng?

It takes a while before coraline to "die off" that is if there is a colonies to kill off to begin with. Enough Calcium will handle the rebound. Keeping lights off for two weeks is kind a long but it'll keep the hair algae and cyno from showing while the tank cycles. I would buy a Skilter (and convert it to surface skim) since it worked fine for my 50 tall in the Modified H.A.N.D.Y. Method (CPR is nice, too but you really don't need that much power). Wet/Dry is a wate of money since all your rocks will do the filtration. 

"Live rock made in buckets in the dark"? To me it sounds more like base rock with some worms (pray it's not fire worms), glass anemone (real pain to get rid of), maybe copepods and microbes (like benificial bacterias)? Little or no purple to speak of and no vegitation (as in macro algae). It's alive with some critters but if you paid premo prices as if it were live rock with color your buddy ain't much of a buddy (you best paid base rock prices). And not picked up some wet "Bull Rock" but calcium based rock would be very good. 

For the lighting Power Compact would be good. All in all best of luck.


----------

