# Questions about adding plants to aquarium



## jl8013 (Jan 4, 2008)

I have a few questions about adding plants to my aquarium.

Info. about my aquarium:
*Size:* 29G All-glass tank from petco
*Lighting:* Default lighting hood that came with the tank with Colormax Fluorescent lamp 20W 24in. T12
*Substrate:* Just regular gravel from petco mix with small rocks and glass marbles
*Original Fishes:* 1 neon tetra, 1 zebra danio, 1 male guppy, 1 female guppy, 1 gold gourami, 2 albino cories, and 1 pleco.
*New Fishes that just added:* 4 neon tetras, 4 zebra danios, 4 female guppies.
*Water:* Temp. 74F, pH 7-7.2
*Plants:* some loose plants from petco tank.  
*Plant food:* 3 Plant Food Tabs when water changing (every 3wks), Leaf Zone, just bought Flourish to replace Leaf Zone.
*Future new plants:* Hornwort, Anacharis, Crypt wendtii "Green Wendtii"

Questions:
1. Should I add Fluorite to the tank if I want to add more low light plants?
2. Is my current lamp sufficient for my plants? The lighting fixture is sit on top of a glass. I also have a Ario 4 Moonlight Aquarium Aerator in the corner.
3. How do you clean the gravel with all those plants in it? I used Ultimate Aquarium Gravel Vac Kits from thatfishplace for water changing.
4. This question is about fish: Recently, my gourami has been acting weird. It would hide in the corner, or when I walk toward the tank, it would be all jumpy. It all started after it got sick with fungus on its lips. I was able to cured it (I think), but its lips are not the same anymore. Do you think the sickness has anything to do with its behavior or maybe there are too many fishes in the tank? Now with the new fishes in the tank, when I feed them, it looks like its too scare to swim up for the flakes. Thats why I want to add more plants to the tank, maybe that can help it.

Thank you for taking your time to read my post. 

PS: Should I add more cory to the tank as I always read that they do good in a group of 5? Can my 29G tank take 5 of them?


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

as far as I know you do not have enough light in your tank.
For most plants you grow you need 2 watts per gallon of light and more for some plants.
I think you are all right with your fish load, but is the tank cycled?
Hornwort is a fairly high light plant. Also the sword you have in your tank is a heavy feeder and likes light.
Low light plants are anubias, java moss, java fern . medium light plants are vals. I grow all my plants in plain gravel. I add ferts under the roots and liquid ferts made by tetra each week.
You can go to the TROPICA web site and research the plant requirements. Tropica is a company that grows quality plants for the fish hobbyist.
I have never had much luck with plants from the chain pet stores. They also sell too many plants that are not truly submersible. 3 cat fish works well.


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## Manthalynn (Aug 23, 2008)

jl8013 said:


> *Lighting:* Default lighting hood that came with the tank with Colormax Fluorescent lamp 20W 24in. T12


Mousey is correct in regards to lighting. I have 2 wpg (not more because I don't want to dose with CO2 and so it would just be wasting light that the plants don't need at a high wattage). I am happily growing a few different types of plants. (Cabomba, pennywort, crypt- these three are growing like crazy in my tank; ones that look fine but aren't as fast growing are my annubias nana, java fern, and Amazon swords)



> *Substrate:* Just regular gravel from petco mix with small rocks and glass marbles


I personally chose to go with soil type media. I used two bags of Eco-complete but would recommend 3 bags total for a 29gal. I feel with two it's too shallow. Maybe some other people can explain the benefits of soil vs. just gravel. I didn't want to have to worry about dosing plain gravel so I purchased soil which should feed my plants fairly well for a while. It was pretty expensive, though. About $22 per bag. I bought it online at petsolutions.com because they only charged $10 for shipping even heavy items.



> *Original Fishes:* 1 neon tetra, 1 zebra danio, 1 male guppy, 1 female guppy, 1 gold gourami, 2 albino cories, and 1 pleco.
> *New Fishes that just added:* 4 neon tetras, 4 zebra danios, 4 female guppies.


 Your fish sounds like fun! I have swordtails, mollies, 5 Botia striata (zebra loach), and one clown pleco. Don't forget to give your pleco some real driftwood to chew on. Mine used to hide in it's cave until I got it a piece of driftwood and without fail, I always find him on that. So that must mean he likes it. I also drop in a baby carrot every few days and he eats it entirely in those three days. I've also seen him enjoying the broccoli florette I toss in occasionally, too. 



> *Plants:* some loose plants from petco tank.


If you end up with snails, I highly recommend loaches (Botia striata stays fairly small, but make sure you give it plenty of caves). I wanted to get some anyway, and three days after bringing them home, I have NO snails left compared to before when they were over taking the tank. And loaches are such funny fish to watch. But they do like pretty clean water, so that might not be the best for you. (Not a judgement at all, I know how it is to not be able to have perfect water...)



> *Plant food:* 3 Plant Food Tabs when water changing (every 3wks), Leaf Zone, just bought Flourish to replace Leaf Zone.


I don't have any experience with the tabs. I do use a capful of Flourish Excel every couple days (instead of injecting CO2) and about once a week put in half a capful of regular flourish. My fish and soil provide the macro nutrients.



> *Future new plants:* Hornwort, Anacharis, Crypt wendtii "Green Wendtii"


Enjoy your new plants! My anarchis melted pretty bad when I brought it home, but without doing anything special to it, it's growing back just fine. Someone here reminded me that some plants melt a little when you first bring them home. Then they should grow back.
Questions:

2.


> Is my current lamp sufficient for my plants? The lighting fixture is sit on top of a glass. I also have a Ario 4 Moonlight Aquarium Aerator in the corner.


I am having success with the Coral Life 30" power compact 65W. This was the lamp recommended to me and based on my success (ie: plants are actually growing and looking nice, but they're not weed monsters climbing out of the tank every few days) I would recommend it, too. But that's only based on 4 months of experience with a planted tank.



> 3. How do you clean the gravel with all those plants in it? I used Ultimate Aquarium Gravel Vac Kits from thatfishplace for water changing.


I don't gravel vac. I've been told you're supposed to suck close to the soil to pick up any poo but I never see any poo and end up sucking up tons of soil...which I paid too much for to have it go down the drain. I figure the waste is free fertilizer. But yes, gravel vac-ing with plants is a pain in the butt. So is trying to catch zippy fish, like Danios!



> 4. This question is about fish: Recently, my gourami has been acting weird.


Sadly, I don't know anything about fish diseases. Try posting this question in the diseases section with the title describing the symptoms. I also feel more inclined to read a post if the title explains itself a little instead of just saying, "Help!" (I've posted my fair share of senseless titles, but since you mentioned you were having a hard time getting comments on your posts....)

Good luck with your tank! I really have enjoyed getting into a planted tank.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

Does anyone have an opinion on potted plants? I am getting ready to upgrade from a 10 gallon (with no plants) to a 40 gallon and want to go as natural as possible with it. I think I will use gravel (not soil) and was wondering what my best option were. I know the potted plants are a bit pricier but was curious if they are less work?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

207lauras said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on potted plants? I am getting ready to upgrade from a 10 gallon (with no plants) to a 40 gallon and want to go as natural as possible with it. I think I will use gravel (not soil) and was wondering what my best option were. I know the potted plants are a bit pricier but was curious if they are less work?


2l:

I do not have "just gravel" but I believe that "just gravel" will work as everyone in the world uses it.

What I have is one inch of 3/8" aggregate over two inches of laterite over an inch of 3/8" aggregate.

I believe that the other popular substrates are *EcoComplete* and *Flourite*.

I believe that the "potted plants" to which you refer are not really potted plants.

The "pots" and the material around the root mass of the plant must be removed and the vegetation planted in order to thrive.

TR


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

The substance around the plant roots is like a fibre that has been impregnated witha high dose of fertilizers to get the plant in prime condition for the marketplace.
Try to remove as much of it as possible without damaging the roots. if you leave the fibre on the plant you will likely have an overgrowth of algae in your tank. Want to know how I know??
You can grow anubias, java fen vals, swords etc in plain gravel. Make sure you use some liquid ferts and have an appropriate amount of light for the plants you choose.


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

do I just put the liquid ferts into the tank water as often as the bottle says to? i am planning on growing them off of the wood so I may not plant them into the gravel (they may sneak in there, I am not sure as I have never dealt with plants in an aquarium). Will the lights that come with the hood be ok or do I need to upgrade? I want to go with java fern and tiger lotus (?) are they ok together?
thanks again!


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

207lauras said:


> do I just put the liquid ferts into the tank water as often as the bottle says to?


2l:

As you are just starting withing plants you might consider using just *Seachem Flourish* for several months and see how you do.




207lauras said:


> I want to go with java fern and tiger lotus (?) are they ok together?
> i am planning on growing them off of the wood so I may not plant them into the gravel (they may sneak in there, I am not sure as I have never dealt with plants in an aquarium).
> Will the lights that come with the hood be ok or do I need to upgrade?


The Java Fern will work tied to wood and probably with your lighting.
The Tiger Lotus I do not believe will but this just comes from Googling.

Can you provide a link to your fixture?

TR


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I would like to grow Lotus but have been told that my lighting is not sufficient for it.- I have just over 2 wpg. As far as the java is concerned, it is a very slow growing plant and so does not need tons of ferts- some occasinally will do fine. try anubias too-- it flowers every winter and looks much like an underwater peace lily. Mine had 5 flowers this year. The anubias plant is over 5 years old tho.yes yuo just throw the liquid fetrs in the tank. I usually do it at 1/2 the rate they say to.
We have upgraded fron the lights that came with the tank- they are basically useless for plants. 
Hubby removes the fluorescent part and puts in screw in connectors, modifies the metal insert a bit and then i use regular household fluorescent bulbs of the daylight variety. I find they work as well as the special grow lights you buy for tanks at $20! In fact i think they work better. They are usually noted on the package to be 5700 kelvin which is what you are aiming for.
Oh and bulbs should be changed annually as they lose their strength.
it says on the package also that they are not suitable for timers or near water. 
I phoned a bulb manufacturer about that. they say it shortens the life of the bulb-- not something to worry about when you need new ones annually anyway. It also voids the warranty on them.

Be aware that Excell flourish made by seachem will cause any valisneria to die back to the centers. it makes for a real nasty mess in your tank that goes on for weeks.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

mousey said:


> Be aware that *Excell flourish *made by seachem will cause any valisneria to die back to the centers. it makes for a real nasty mess in your tank that goes on for weeks.


*Seachem Flourish Excel*.

Seachem Flourish to which I previously provided a link will not.

TR


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## Manthalynn (Aug 23, 2008)

mousey said:


> try anubias too-- it flowers every winter and looks much like an underwater peace lily. Mine had 5 flowers this year. The anubias plant is over 5 years old tho.


I'm curious about this "every winter" part. I discussed this with Ron a while back. Do you keep your lights on the same length year round? Because a lot of plants have a flowering response due to changing day length. But if your lights are on the same length every day, all year long, then it must be something else. My anubias (which I've only had for about 6 months) are doing great and have already put on several new leaves and still are. I'd love to see them flowering some day. I didn't know they did that! Thanks.




> Be aware that Excell flourish made by seachem will cause any valisneria to die back to the centers. it makes for a real nasty mess in your tank that goes on for weeks.


Hmmm, my Vals totally melted. I can't tell if it was around the time that I started using Flourish and Excel, though. I've given up on them. My micro Val is fine, it's just hard to get it to stay in the substrate (I have both course and fine in two separate tanks...)


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I guess the lighting issue is always a guess for some things. In the winter I get the same amount of light from my lighting as usual but the room is darker because of the very short days. In DEC when they start to 'set the buds' it is dark in my living room by 4 pm and it is dark until 8 am. My lights go on at 8 am and off at 5pm.
There is only 1 flower still blooming and it is on it's last legs. currently we are seeing sunrise about 7:30 in the morning and the tank gets a couple of hours of sunlight 15 feet away from the window.
My other tank in the same room gets mid and late afternoon sun at an angle and the jungle vals are going nuts. have to keep thinning. In the summer when I keep the curtains pulled the vals slow down significantly and look downright pasty at times.
You mention micro vals. I have read that there is no such thing( I would swear there was!!). Possibly you have dwarf chain swords or dwarf saggitaria. They look very similar but I believe there are no hairs on the leaf edges. Vals have hairy leaf edges.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Manthalynn said:


> Hmmm, my Vals totally melted. I can't tell if it was around the time that I started using Flourish and Excel,


Sam:

The Flourish is not a problem at all with the Val's.

The Excel is a problem with the Val's.

Although, in my words, Excel "is just supposed to be principally a replacement for CO2 injection" there is something in it which causes the Val's meltdown.

My experience is that "whatever this is" gets into the root mass as they will not recover or only very slowly recover unlike when being transplanted.




Manthalynn said:


> I'm curious about this "every winter" part. I discussed this with Ron a while back. Do you keep your lights on the same length year round?


ms: - Sam: please read ms' post closely.

I really did not want to get into this one in our previous dialogs but have you ever contemplated that the discussion at hand is not necessarily relevant to solar duration?

I have always wondered if some other effect was prevalent and the only other one which I could think of was the Earth's magnetic field.

A little published fact is that the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field reverses every 400,000 to 500,000 years or so and that magnetic north migrates in human generation time frames (currently from left to right).

Could minor but annual changes in the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field produce ms' otherwise inexplicable observations?

Interesting thought is it not?

TR


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## Manthalynn (Aug 23, 2008)

I thought more about this, and I think Anubias is native to the tropics, near the equator, so light levels are fairly static year round. I'm not positive, but I believe that flowering for plants from these areas is not a function of changing day length.

I'm not really sure why, but like you said, it must be something about the earth that lets plants know it's winter and time to flower, even if the day length doesn't change. 

As for the Vals, I started using Excel before I used Flourish. So that must be what totally demolished my Vals. But that's ok, I've got other things in there that are growing great and I'm happy with it. My cabomba is growing like mad and at this point, I'm not having to trim. I am looking forward to trimming and replanting to thicken up the planting density. Then I'll just toss the extras. But I probably will only have to prune every few weeks. It's just gratifying to see a visual improvement to your tank. It tells you you're doing something right. And my mollies are procreating like guppies, which means they're finally happy.


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## jl8013 (Jan 4, 2008)

If I get the led light tubes that Carol bought on ebay for my tank, do you think its kind of over kill? I'm thinking about getting the 2 foot total 100w tubes from the ebay seller. With those tubes, it comes out to be 3.33wpg.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Manthalynn said:


> I'm not really sure why, but like you said, it must be something about the earth that lets plants know it's winter and time to flower, even if the day length doesn't change.


Sam:

You did not respond to my "Earth's magnetic field variation" theory!

If you or the Doc's you work with have any better ideas I would very much enjoy knowing them.




jl8013 said:


> If I get the led light tubes that Carol bought on ebay for my tank, do you think its kind of over kill? I'm thinking about getting the 2 foot total 100w tubes from the ebay seller. With those tubes, it comes out to be 3.33wpg.


jl:

Please excuse me here as I would like to help but I am completely lost!

Could you please elucidate?

TR


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## jl8013 (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry to confused you. The led tube that I was referring is in this topic


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

jl8013 said:


> Sorry to confused you. The led tube that I was referring is in this topic


jl:

I have some experience with blue light (7100K) and based on this experience I believe that a preponderance of white light (10000K) with a small quantity of blue light enhances plant health and growth.

I have read that red light (*app. 3000K*) will have some benefit also although I do not believe that the benefit will be as large as you perceive.

TR


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## Manthalynn (Aug 23, 2008)

jones57742 said:


> Sam:You did not respond to my "Earth's magnetic field variation" theory!
> 
> If you or the Doc's you work with have any better ideas I would very much enjoy knowing them.


I'll have to ask them about this. It's amazing the little things that cause a plant to change phases. Ok, I'm going to stop now because I just about gave you a 2 hour lecture on red vs. Far Red phytochrome, ethylene, physiological maturity, external stimuli versus internal, growth hormones, etc.

I'll leave you with this quote from one of my favorite books, Les Mis: 
"Joly was the "malade imaginaire" junior. What he had won in medicine was to be more of an invalid than a doctor. At three and twenty he thought himself a valetudinarian, and passed his life in inspecting his tongue in the mirror. He affirmed that man becomes magnetic like a needle, and in his chamber he placed his bed with its head to the south, and the foot to the north, so that, at night, the circulation of his blood might not be interfered with by the great electric current of the globe. During thunder storms, he felt his pulse. Otherwise, he was the gayest of them all."


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Manthalynn said:


> I'll have to ask them about this. It's amazing the little things that cause a plant to change phases. Ok, I'm going to stop now because I just about gave you a 2 hour lecture on red vs. Far Red phytochrome, ethylene, physiological maturity, external stimuli versus internal, growth hormones, etc.


Sam: Thank you as you just kept me from having a serious headache!

But believe it or not I do know what some of those words implicate and btw you previously indicated that you were not into the ene's! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




Manthalynn said:


> Les Mis:


Sam: Never mind: my head is hurting!

TR


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## Manthalynn (Aug 23, 2008)

jones57742 said:


> and btw you previously indicated that you were not into the ene's! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Oh,yeah, I guess ethylene is one of those -enes. I just didn't know it! I'm debating whether I want to kill myself next quarter and take O-Chem, or if Stats will be enough of a brain-load for the quarter...I think I'll shuffle O-Chem off one more quarter...


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

Manthalynn said:


> Oh,yeah, I guess ethylene is one of those -enes. I just didn't know it! I'm debating whether I want to kill myself next quarter and take O-Chem, or if Stats will be enough of a brain-load for the quarter...I think I'll shuffle O-Chem off one more quarter...


Sam:

Watch my lips!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Neither Organic Chemistry or Probability and Statistics is "hard" unless you believe them to be "hard"!!! (and this is coming from a feller who did not do all that well in high school).

Organic is 90% just learning information which, with your background, is no problem at all and the remaining 10% is classical chemistry which you know like the back of your hand. Just go buy the organic text from the Coop, read the chapters and solve the problems and you will agree with my assertion.

Probability and Statistics is just very, very rudimentary problem solving behavior and with your physics background this will be a no brainer also!

Please believe me here: they are "hard" only because you believe them to be.

When you get into talking about "hard" these type of tensor equations are but nowhere close to the 4D which must be envisioned and subsequently solved in the explanation of nature via General Relativity.

Please listen to this old dinosaur: go to the COOP; purchase an OC and a P&S book; read them and solve them problems without a preconceived notion of the material being "hard".

TR

BTW: I am publishing the above in a post instead of in a PM to Sam as I want several other members of the Forum who I enjoy to hear these words also while I am still here (ie. before the formaldehyde transfusion).


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