# Maybe I'm being too sensitive...



## akangelfood (Jun 26, 2008)

I went to my son's class orientation today, and one thing really bothered me.

They're doing an entire unit on aquariums and ecosystems, which I think is way cool. The methods they're using, however, made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

They've requested that all students bring to class clean 2 liter bottles. They're going to create small aquariums in them. What bothered me most was a comment made by one of the teachers. She said, "Well, really, most of the critters don't survive either way, but we're going to try!" She made the comment with a grin, and the other teachers in the room laughed.

I'm not seeing the humor in it, myself. I'd much rather see the teacher set up a real aquarium in the classroom and actually expect the fish to live. All three classrooms are doing this project. Why knowingly send 60 fish to certain death?

Maybe I'm over-reacting.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

here is a good experiment for them to do..
1 gallon glass widemouth jar with lid..gravel to cover 1 inch or so of bottom.1 or 2 stems of a live plant like anacharis.1 male guppy..when the jar is set up with everything in it put the lid on an seal it.put the jar in a sunny spot.no feeding....no water changes..yet the guppy will live for a long time like this..
plants give of oxygen..fish breathes it and gives off co2 and leaves excrement for the plant..and the fish nibbles at the plant for food..
i agree with you that the teachers are taking a rather cavelier attitude towards the fish not surviving..


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## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

This is a standard experiment done in 4th and 5th grade. It kinda sucks for those of us who respect the life of a lowly fish. 

Just make sure the teacher actually understands what is going on during the experiment. It would be sad if they did the whole experiment, and the teacher did nothing but read from the lab book(which is probably the case). 

It is an inevitability that we will have to sacrifice a few fish to help people understand. There are two benefits that come out of this. 
1: They will understand an aquarium nitrogen cycle. Better they kill 1 fish, than set up an entire aquarium, and kill all the fish there. 
2: There are larger applications to this experiment. It teaches about fertilizers and pollution affecting our environment. While people are affected by the death of a fish, maybe we should see that as a positive. If someone is affected by the death of a fish dying, then maybe they will remember this and not pollute like we have been doing.


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## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

John,
That actually sounds like a neat experiment!


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2008)

I agree with you. Thats a pretty crazy thing they are doing. Did you offer the suggestion of setting up a class aquarium? She probably is set with her plans, but you might could change her mind.


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## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

You have to understand, these experiments are not just randomly picked by individual teachers. These are in the curriculum, set by the school, and probably the district. You can't just drop them.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

That's pretty messed up.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I doubt that the school district has set the curriculum down to the level of individual lessons / units for teachers.

Generally school districts (good school districts) will follow state or federal guidelines and have the teachers develop their basic curriculum as a team. For example, all of the fourth grade teachers would meet up and go over stuff like textbooks, learning units, and standardized test requirements and then craft their individual classroom plan on their own.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

doing the self contained ecosystem in the gallon jar has been done for more than 50 years.it does work quite well..i am just not sure about using a 2 litre bottle though..


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## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

My mother is a 5th grade teacher, and has done this experiment several times. Both private and public schools regulate that you have to do X number of science experiments. This is A; one of the cheapest, B; one of the most straight forward, and C; one of the most effective experiments that can be done. That is why it is done all over the country. Setting up an aquarium doesn't count as a lab experiment, and most teachers have some animals in their classrooms anyhow. My mother has a 20 gallon tank, 2 fire-bellies, and 3 hermit crabs, but they still don't count as an experiment. 

I did this experiment when I was in 5th grade (10 years ago), and we had a choice whether we wanted to actually kill our guppies or not. Most did not, and we gave them away at the end of the experiment. Even the ones we tried to kill didn't all die. 

Ak, if you want, you should suggest to only have 3 or 5 be sacrificed, while the others can be kept alive. If I remember correctly, you add something different to each bottle, to simulate different situations. I think there were either 3 or 5 things added, from ammonia, fertilizer, all the way to bleach.
Then at the end of the experiment, they can set up a tank and keep them in the classroom, or someone who wants a them can take them home. That is what we did with ours.


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## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

I need to add this as well. 

Coming from a family with teachers, I know the other side. A helpful hint to you Ak, don't go in derogatory, or demanding anything. Act concerned, but still with your child's education first. Approach it from a constructive standpoint. Go in as someone who knows a lot about fish and aquariums, rather than a tree-hugger on a rampage (if that makes any sense). Here's an interesting series of experiments they can do:

1: 2L bottle experiment
2: Take the ones that live and set up a tank, explaining the different cycles taking place in the tank.
3: Make a DIY CO2 system, talk about how yeast makes sugar into CO2, and how CO2 is good for the plants.

This is actually what my mother does now, and has been doing for the past few years. She gets a small aquarium donated buy the LFS, so it doesn't cost her much at all.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I agree with the suggestion that you don't want to be overbearing towards a teacher in any event. My dad has been a teacher for over 40 years and I can tell you that most (there are some bad apples out there...) professional educators know what they are doing and deserve the respect of their pupils' parents. Believe or not, the teacher most likely knows better what to do with the child than the parents. People are apt to stick their nose in to educational situations when they would never question a doctor to the same degree.

I do, however, think that's a really stupid experiment. It may teach kids that bleach is bad for fish, but it has the overtone of telling kids that fish lives are not valuable because the animals are small. The guppy in a jar experiment is better.


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## akangelfood (Jun 26, 2008)

The local curriculum sets forth that in his grade level they explore ecosystems and marine life. It is indeed up to the individual teacher to set the details.

I'd considered donating a tank to the classroom, but as mentioned above I'm not sure that it would give her the effect she was looking for.

My son will likely not be in the school when this experiment comes to be, as we're moving next month. He has the option to remain in that school because he's been there for so long, but he's actually excited about switching to the school in our new area.

I think that the most frustrating thing for me was that all of the children were present at this orientation. Their teacher stood up there and essentially told them that the project would be lots of fun and would kill the fish. I'd be very supportive if the goal were to try to keep them alive, but she didn't seem to even regard that as an option. She lauhed about the fact that they rarely survive. If that's the case, perhaps she should revisit the experiment and figure out what's going wrong.

I'm all for SOME loss. That's understandable, and a good learning lesson. But to tell the kids from day one that the success rate is grim kind of defeats the purpose.


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## Sea-Agg2009 (Aug 2, 2008)

Ok, then yes, you're teacher is crazy. I know none of our teachers enjoyed killing the fish. Just don't assume that all teachers are like this one. Most only kill a few off. This teacher just seems to be slightly off-kilter.


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## akangelfood (Jun 26, 2008)

I'd also like to mention that I've never been confrontational or disrespectful to a teacher. A friend of mine teaches third grade, and frankly I have a lot of respect for what they do. I haven't mentioned this concern to my son, nor do I plan to. Generally, even if I do not agree with a teacher, I do respect their choices and I make that very clear to my children. This post was more of an opportunity to vent than anything else. My plan is to wait, and if my son does become involved in this project, I'll be right by his side. I won't say a word initially. At this point I have very few details. The teacher did say that she encourages parental involvement in this experiment, and I'll certainly be there to help my son. I'd like to not intervene with the teacher or her lesson plan, but to use it as a way that I too can teach my son. Who knows, maybe he'll have the only living fish at the end of the year


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I didn't mean to suggest that you had gotten confrontational with the teacher. I apologize if that was implied or perceived in my post.


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## akangelfood (Jun 26, 2008)

Nope COM, no worries  I saw it mentioned by a few folks that I should avoid letting it come to that. I was only clarifying my general stance and outlining how I do plan on addressing it if my son becomes involved. I'm a pretty level-headed lady.

Nothing negative perceived on my end.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I hate grade school biology. I was one who got in trouble for not wanting to play with the formaldehyded frog (the fumes were making me ill). The pins were dull, the equipment uncleaned from last year and there was a frog-eye fight going on the back of the classroom. 

If they are going to do ecosystems, they should do cherry shrimp and java moss in large jar.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Are they really trying to make kids cry these days or what? xD


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

On the good side, while the teacher is teaching about the bad things that can go wrong with the ecosystem, you have the opportunity at home to teach him the right way to take care of the fish environment with your own tanks. He gets to learn both sides of the situation.


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## elvis332 (Dec 29, 2007)

oooohhh ok


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## TwilightRaven (Aug 23, 2008)

Jeez, that's really sad, I'd be sensitive about it, too..*thanks her lucky stars they home schooled their daughter*


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## s13 (Aug 17, 2007)

we all know fish dont have souls =P

Sucks for the $0.20 goldfish, their fate has been sealed.


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