# BettaFriend's First Saltwater Tank!



## BettaFriend

I finally got the tank. I had to drive 2 hours to get it, and 2 hours back with the fish (2 different damsels). The fish, I imageine aren't doing to great, but the last time I checked on them, they were in a bucket doing fine.

I am haveing some problems with the sump. I didn't examine the setup as well as I wished, because we took it apart soon after we got there. So the fish are sitting in a bucket as they have been for the last, maybe 3 hours.

Can anyone help me with this?

Here is the sump pump;







I am wondering if this is *fully* submeresable? I NEED to get the water flowing very soon! I have fish that have been sitting in a bucket for 3 hours.

I had a pic of the sump, but it didn't come up. The sump has one side that is full of LR, and another side that was empty. Do I put the tube from the overflow in the side with the shells & LR, or the empty side? Do I put the pump in the LR side, or the empty side?

Please help!


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## platies pwn

go to the chat


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## BettaFriend

NEED HELP WITH THE SUMP, GUYS!

The brand is Quite1one. idk if anyone has experience with this filter?


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## funlad3

I have to be quick, because I need to draft up a design for my canopy. Anyways, yes the pump is FULLY submersible. Have he tube from the overflow leading into the chamber with the LR. It will overflow into the second chamber, which is where the return pump should go. Make sure everything i plugged into a three prong power strip or has the prongs itself. That way you don't kill yourself. 

As for the fish, drop in a heater and air pump from your FW tank and they'll be fine for a while. At least better than my eel was today. Wrong time for that. Just get going! And remember, try to cover the sand so that it doesn't completely kill your water. 

Good luck! If you have any more questions email me at [email protected]. I swear, if I get any spam from anyone here, I'll leave the forum! (Probably not, but I had to at least put a threat, no, a promise, down! )


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## BettaFriend

Hey thanks funlad3! I have setup everything exactly how it was suggested.

Fish should be fine for maybe afew hours.

My next problem is this, I didn't get enough water to fill the tank. The reason that is a problem is that the water doesn't reach the adjustable overflow. 

It is the weirdest thing, but I used my gravel vac to siphon water into the sump, then turned my pump on and the water is (10 minutes later) still at the same elavation! It is siphoning at EXACTLY the same speed it is pumping it!

Anyway, I still do need to mix my own water. I have half a bag of salt (I don't know the size, but it is a fair amout) and 5g of distilled water (plus the infinate gallons from the tap if it comes down to it). 

I know I should probably already know this but...how do you mix your own SW? I have read Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies (don't tell anyone! lol), and the book briefly discussed mixing saltwater, but I need more than a one-sided book. I do have a...well, I don't know what it is called (maybe a hydrometer) but it measures SW. I DO know what a hydrometer does, but I don't know if this one is called a hydrometer (SW for Dummies didn't have any pictures, so I didn't learn much, jk lol).

The fish are doing better than they were in the car. In case I didn't post what the damsels were, I got a Yellow tail, and a Humbug (also called 3-stripe damsel). They are AWESOME! I know they are extremely aggressive/territorial, so I will cry the day (maybe in a month) that I have to sell them (or maybe I wont be able to let go). Sad thing is, for the longest time my favorite SW fish was a HUMBUG DAMSEL, and now I have one sitting in a tank. I don't know if I can get rid of it. I may HAVE to keep it.

I also have a bright red shrimp with a darker tail (obsessed with cleaning the tank, or right now, the bucket). I also have these AWESOME snails with shells that are cone-shaped and go straight up! I have alot of little starfish (with odd numbered legs) that look like the ones Cossie (another member from this forum) has.

I don't know how I was supposed to stack the LR, but I put it in a neat little pile, and made sure it was stable. Sad thing is, I can't even see it because of the sand. Any tips on clearing sand? Speaking of sand, I only have about 1/2" of LS/S. Not alot.

Next, the guy said there might be dead coral in there. I have heard that dead coral can be good for a tank. Do I need to identify the coral, and discard it, or is it Ok to keep it? He also said that he removed all his big coral, but he has a "piece of LR" that looks like coral. I will have to get a pic up when I can see it (the sand isn't that bad).

Oh goodness, I could post forever! I am SO excited! I can't belive that 3 days ago, I had no idea this would happen anytime within the next several months, if ever. I put my amphibian tank plan on hold, and I am going to make sure I have enough for what I am going to get.

I have been typing for a long time and I checked on the sump...water is in the SAME PLACE! Wow.

I am so excited! (review) I need to know how to mix the salt (step by step), if anyone has any tips on how to make the sand settle, place post them, if you found anything else that I didn't mention in this paragraph, or have any other kinds of suggestions, please feel free to post them.

Thanks!
BettaFriend,

_(edit: btw, what happened to your SFE, funlad3?)_


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## funlad3

I was waiting in bed for you to reply! Let me read your post and I'll comment. As for mixing the salt, the general rule is add one half cup per gallon of water. Then, check with your hydrometer. (If it has a little arm/lever thing inside, that's what it is.) Fill it with water. The arm should float up to around 1.023. You should aim for about 1.024, so add more if you need it. Right now, just add more salt water into the sump (To avoid disturbing more sand) and add the fish once you can sort of see in the water. If you have a filter sock, put it in under the the overflow pipe in the sump. Other wise, get one and change it once a week. That's all you should need to do for tonight. If you have any questions, I should be online at about 12:45 PM Central time. Ask and you shall receive! Knowledge that is.


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## BettaFriend

Thanks funlad3! I am off to go on my first SW mission: Create Saltwater!:-o


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## BettaFriend

Great, the damsles are fighting in the bucket. Aren't I looking foward to keeping these guys for the next month or so?

_(edit: Got my first batch of SW mixed. I only have 2 more gallons of distilled, so it looks like I will have to take some from the tap)_


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## BettaFriend

OMGoodness! Look at the time I posted this (it is 3:24am here!). I have been up for almost 30 minutes JUST trying to find out how to start my stupid overflow siphon! I can't figure it out! Sometimes, I hate siphons!

Anyone know how to start a tube siphon on an overflow?? If anyone finds a link to a Youtube vid about tube siphons in overflows, please post it! I will probably have figured it out by then, but if not...I am too tired to type.


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## BettaFriend

I FINALLY got everything going! It has been a long morning. I started on my SW fish at 8:30pm, and I am going to bed, because it is 4:03am I AM TIRED! Haven't had a bit of sleep, and this is the closest I have ever gone to staying awake all night.

I am upset. Maybe there is something wrong with my hydrometer, but I have InstantOcean seasalt, and I put in what it said, and it said the salinity was at 1.01.. I add more, but it doesn't go up. I had to get some water in tonight, so I used slightly more than it called for. I am buying a new hydrometer at Petco next time I go.

The fish are alive and in the tank. It is STILL a little cloudy. That was partly because I forgot to turn off the sump pump when I was working on the overflow. The sump has alot of sand in it so you can imagine how that went.

I think they will be fine. If not, I wont have to think about selling them.

Anyway, it is 4:07am and I am going to bed! Good morning! Goodnight!

_(edit: btw, staying up until 4am with fish in a bucket and a siphon you have no clue on earth how to start makes me grumpy)_


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## funlad3

Get a hydrometer like this:

http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/ProductImages/sea test hydrometer large.jpg

Floating ones can be bad. If the salinity really is that low, you'll have problems when you wake up.




Good luck and I'll be back at 12:45 Central!


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## BettaFriend

Ok, I'll pick something like that up next time I go to Petco.

I have TONS of unidentified inverts! TONS! Starfish with 5,6, and seven legs, snails with tall shells, strange growths on the LR, wierd red fuzzy arms (that are alive!), etc. I will get some pics up in a while.


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## funlad3

Cool! I'll be home at a bit after 5:00.


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## BettaFriend

Just in case I failed to mention, I have 1 humbug/humbud damsel, and 1 Blue damsel that I believe is a Blue Devil Damsel.

I finished setting up the tank at 4:20am this morning. I got a tad bit of shuteye, then I was up again, bright and early (7:30am) to check on the fish.








Here is Phillip, my humbug (note: I thought it was hard to take a pic of a Swordtail!)...















This is my (I think Blue Devil). It doesn't have a name, because I haven't looked up how to tell the gender of a BDD. He is extremely bright blue!








This is my (I think Peppermint?) shrimp. It is a funny shrimp, it almost has a since of humor!








That is the max I can upload on this post. I will upload the wierd inverts later.

The tank came with a Coralife fixture (36") and I was wondering if that would support (low light?) coral. There is a big piece of "dead coral" that I am not sure it is dead. I will upload pics later. Any recommendations for a Coralife bulb (aren't there alot of different kinds?)? Is there a certain Kelvin (k) I am aiming for, is it output, is it the color of the box? Even if the light wont support coral, I want my fish to be on a timed schedule.

Anyway, short on time. That is all for now (not really but,). I might post back later with more info/pics. Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

Now I will post 5 (the maximum amount of uploadable files in 1 post) strange inverts, or things that I might think are inverts.

Wierd Snail? I have only seen this guy once.








Is this coral? It doesn't look like LR to me.








I have about 3 of these guys. They have vertical, cone-shaped shells.








Is this LR?








This is the freakishly scarey arm thing! It moves! I couldn't get a good pic of it because he was in a dirty spot. What is it??








And that is just some of the inverts I wanted to be indentified. If you know some or all, feel free to post the species and how to care for it (as I have no clue).

My 'blue devil' (can someone confirm that?) had a black, vertical stripe on him/her today. It didn't look like an injury, it just looked odd. Only on one side. It is gone now, anyone know if I can expect that to happen again, or what caused it?

I haven't had any trouble with the equipment ever since I got the tank started at 4:30am today (it has been a long day!).

Anyway, if you know what it is, even if you don't know how to take care of it, please post the name of the invert (and the blue damsel if you know it).

Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

I have realized that Coralife bulbs come in alot of different sizes and shapes. Here is a pic of the bulb I have (that is burt out);








I guess from looking at the pciture again, that this is a 50/50 bulb? Where can I find these? Petsmart? And will this help grow coral, or will I need better lighting for coral (maybe low-light coral?)?

Thanks!


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## TheOldSalt

Yep, that's a 50/50, and it will grow coral. Petsmart might have them, but any of the better local shops or mailorder/online places will have them.


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## BettaFriend

What should I look for minimally? The bulb in the picture says 96W, but I haven't found any. Should I be looking for a specific Kelvin rating? Is that piece of "LR" coral or dead coral? It really doesn't look like LR to me, but I wouldn't know.

One of the vertical cone-shaped snails is above the water level, as it has been for the last 30m at least. Why is it above the water, and will it die? I tried to test my ammonia with API test kits. The color indecated 0ppm, but when I added the 8 drops from bottle #2, it looked like it had conjieled (however you spell that, or was thicker than I have ever seen it. Maybe it is because my house is somewhat cold?

I still need to find out what several of the inverts are from the pics.

Thanks!


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## kay-bee

BettaFriend said:


> This is my (I think Blue Devil). It doesn't have a name, because I haven't looked up how to tell the gender of a BDD. He is extremely bright blue!


Yes that's a blue devil damsel fish. I've got a pair in one of my tanks. It looks like a female (or immature male). The males can develop yellow pelvic fins and yellow facial and caudal fin coloration.



BettaFriend said:


> The tank came with a Coralife fixture (36") and I was wondering if that would support (low light?) coral.


How many bulbs are in the fixture and what is the volume of the tank?



BettaFriend said:


> Is this coral? It doesn't look like LR to me.


Looks like coral skeleton, so it's dead. You can still use it in the tank and even affix live corals to it if you get corals.



BettaFriend said:


> This is the freakishly scarey arm thing! It moves!


Looks like a large bristle worm. Detritvore/scavenger. I've got a large one in my tank that I see about every 6-9 months. Doesn't look like a fire worm but it's hard to tell in the photo.

In the long run you'll probably want to replace the hydrometer with a refractometer.


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## SilverThorn

picture 1 not sure a snail 
picture 2 LR Most LR is actually dead coral skeletons 
picture 3 looks like a turban snail I think
picture 4 looks like Lr to me a bit cloudy but looks like LR
picture 5 bristle worm...they breed fast eat deterious (decaying) matter in the tank mostly harmless but they do sting wear gloves when fooling around with the rock.

you mentioned little odd leg numbered starfish most likely astherina(sp) starfish harmless grazers I have some myself

the snail out of water is ok mine do it alot it will go back in when it wants too just as long as it doesn't crawl out of the tank & onto the floor or something lol

It would be cool to have a tank with just damsels they are pretty but pick on many other fish & usually need several of the same species to spread out the aggression usually or they can kill one another.

It's a 50/50 bulb but corlalife also makes a daylight & a asthenic(sp) blue that look like that. If the fixture has another bulb what dose it say on it what color is it? Knowing the length of the bulb may help you find it, look it up online. Looks like a square pin base arrangement from the pic. you will probably have to order one if the lfs doesn't have it.


Is it a 30g long standard or upright/tall aquarium. PC lighting would be fine for lots of soft corals mushrooms zooas & some leathers star polyps clove polyps things like that.


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## BettaFriend

SilverThorn said:


> *(1)* picture 5 bristle worm...they breed fast eat deleterious matter in the tank mostly harmless but they do sting wear gloves when fooling around with the rock.
> 
> *(2)* It would be cool to have a tank with just damsels they are pretty but pick on many other fish & usually need several of the same species to spread out the aggression usually or they can kill one another.
> 
> *(3)* Is it a 30g long standard or upright/tall aquarium. PC lighting would be fine for lots of soft corals mushrooms zooas & some leathers star polyps clove polyps things like that.


*(1)* I think I might only have 1. Will it reproduce by itself? Also, I am not sure, but I think it might be a fire bristle worm. I almost tried to pick it up yesterday!

*(2)* I don't mind an all damsel tank, but I would like some variety. Could I get by with 2 of each species? I want to be able to indetify them with names. I might get a Royal Gramma if it would get along.

*(3)* I believe it is a standard 30g.


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## SilverThorn

I think I missed something all I see is a quotation from the previous post I made with no input what were you asking betta? (deleterious? silly spell check basically dead decaying stuff)


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## BettaFriend

Sorry, I accidently posted the quote before I wrote the questions! I edited in the questions, so they should be up now.


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## SilverThorn

1) regular bristle but if you see one chances are you have more lurking use gloves so you don't get an unexpected stick I have some & I use chop sticks to pull them out when i see them. but generally they do more good than harm in the tank.

2)They would probably beat up on the gramma Humbugs can be notoriously nasty with age blues as well so if you want other fish you may have to take them to the lfs & trade up it would be easier to mix damsels in a larger tank with more space & hiding places

3) standard 30 good but how many bulbs in the fixture just the 1 ?


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## BettaFriend

I believe I am taking the damsels back to the lfs in a few months. I will use them as "practice fish" for now, until I get alittle better at keeping the water stable. I think I am going back to my original plan. See " http://www.fishforums.com/forum/beg...king-my-first-30g-sw-aquarium.html#post270841 " for my stocking ideas.

Next, I think I might have ask this somewhere else, but is my tank suitable for a brittle starfish now? I don't imagine I will be going to a SW store anytime soon, but I was wondering if with all the algae and other stuff, if it was ok to get one now (the tank has been setup for 3 years. I got it off Craigslist).

Another thing...very important thing...I am going to Petco soon which is a big deal because I live over an hour away from the closest one. I was wondering if Agonite Sand is coarse enough for a Yellow Watchman Goby to build a home with. I don't want to get something too fine. I also don't want to pay alot and get the wrong thing. *I need your opinions on that soon as I am going Saturday*.

lol I am so glad I didn't get a bigger tank. I was pricing synthetic marine salt, MAN that stuff is expensive. Who knew? lol

Anyway, I don't think the Petco we are stopping at has any Saltwater fish or inverts, so I wont have to worry about that.

I think that is all.
Thanks!


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## funlad3

I can't answer any of your questions, for once! The stocking will definitely be interesting. TO look at I mean! I wonder if you can evaporate the salt out of the water and reuse it. It's probably to much work to be worth it, but I still wonder.


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## BettaFriend

Hey TOS, did you try to post something? My email says you posted on this thread at 9:03am today. Odd?

kay-bee helped me alot on the chat last night. SO much! I think I will use a marine sand that is the size 2mm(L),1mm(S). That way the Watchman will have room to burrow. Also, do you guys think that I could have one third of the sand level in the tank higher in elavation that the other 2 thirds? I want to have kind of a "platform" for the YWG to have a home on/in. Do you think 2" is enough sand, or will it need to be more? Just need to know because I might be headed to Petco (60 miles away) this Saturday if the roads aren't icy.

Check out my stocking thread, also.

Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

*Q: Is synthetic marine salt (name brand, InstantOcean) supposed to be clumpy?*

My InstantOcean is kinda clumpy. The Salinity seems to be fine and accurate, but there are still tiny clumps at the bottom of the bucket after I pour my sand.

Anyone else have this issue?


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## BettaFriend

I was going to edit, but half the time forget and come back to edit, I don't get there in time and after I finish editing it tells me that I am too late.

Anyway, I got my tank topped off and my _real_ overflow running again (not the gravel vac/siphon going from the tank to the sump). Yay! I feel "officially a saltwater person" now. I just felt like an idiot who didn't know what he was doing earlier.

Anyway, if I failed to mention in an earlier post, I bought a hydrometer from a nice pet store about an hour away (make that an hour and a half). The people who ran the store were Asian, so it was just a little bit hard t understand them, but they were great, caring people! They took about 5 minutes (literally) to explain how my Coralife hydrometer works, which is great because otherwise I would have had to spend 30 minutes on the forum and Youtube to figure out how to test my salinity.

If anyone lives in the Greater Houston Area, give me a PM and I can give you the address and information on the pet store.

Anyway, I feel like a real hobbiest again! I checked my salinity and it measured 1.023, so I think I am good. No problem with that salinity, is there? I will try not to change it.

My hermit crab is so cool. I wish I could get a vid up, but they don't call those "dwarf ... hermit crabs" for nothing lol. I might have got some pics up on my stocking thread, but I am not sure. I will go check later.

Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

Sorry for the quadruple post, I just have another question.

What is this? It lives in my sump. It didn't used to be there, but now it is in there, bright red. What is it?









Any imput appreciated. Don't forget to read the 3 or 4 more post above also!

Thanks!


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## TheOldSalt

That is red organpipe coral, _Tubipora musica_


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## BettaFriend

TheOldSalt said:


> That is red organpipe coral, _Tubipora musica_


Whoa, coral? It lives in the sump. Is it as good as dead down there, or is it some kind of "low-light" coral? Could I introduce it to the main tank later?


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## kay-bee

It looks like the calcite skeleton of a tubipora. 

Tubipora polyps are supposed to occupy those chambers and from the look of it they appear mostly empty, it's likely a dead coral.


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## kay-bee

BettaFriend said:


> My InstantOcean is kinda clumpy. The Salinity seems to be fine and accurate, but there are still tiny clumps at the bottom of the bucket after I pour my sand. Anyone else have this issue?


How do you create your saltwater? 

I typically use a ~20gal rubbermaid container (some something similar) and fill with RO/DI water then add the salt. I keep the water churned with a powerhead and then use the saltwater when it is completely dissolved (several hours to a day). 

Take care to only introduced new saltwater into the aquarium wit that has had all the salt mix thoroughly dissolved.


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## SilverThorn

looks like a fragment of pipe organ coral skeleton not alive.<----oops late post


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## BettaFriend

kay-bee said:


> How do you create your saltwater?
> 
> I typically use a ~20gal rubbermaid container (some something similar) and fill with RO/DI water then add the salt. I keep the water churned with a powerhead and then use the saltwater when it is completely dissolved (several hours to a day).
> 
> Take care to only introduced new saltwater into the aquarium wit that has had all the salt mix thoroughly dissolved.


I use a 5 gallon bucket and mix 4 gallons at a time. InstantOcean instructions say "add...(amount)...of synthetic Saltwater mix. Mix it thouroughly. You can add the water instantly if needed, or let it sit". Those are *not* exact words, but that is basically what it says.

When I pour the mix into a dry cup (to measure), it is already clumpy. Is the mix bad, or is it Ok if it is clumpy?

Thanks!


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## funlad3

Just stir it a bit. You'd be surprised how long that water stirs itself in a circular bucket.


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## BettaFriend

**sigh**

Guys, I have a problem.

My new Dwarf Blue-leg Hermit Crab had been missing for a weekend (actually I was gone the weekend, but I am going to assume it has been all weekend), and I finally found him earlier today after a very long time searching. When I found him about 5 hours ago (maybe less), he looked like he was stuck (I haven't seen him move, but I reconize his shell). I came back after band practice and he was still wedged in a weird shape LR and hasn't moved abit.

I need to get him un-stuck and see if he is alive. My problem is that my crab is stuck deep into a piece of LR that is all the way at the bottom of the tank. It is one of the rocks that make up the base (not base rock type), and it has about 15lbs of LR stacked on top of it.

My other problem is my bristle worm problem. I have got tons of the little red/grey guys. Everywhere. I know they sting, and I don't want to touch one. The bristle worms don't like the rock my poor hermit crab is stuck in, but they live in all the rocks that are stacked on top of it. I would have to remove all those rocks as well.

*sigh*

Are Latex-free gloves Ok to put in saltwater, and will the bristleworms sting _through_ the latex free gloves? My gloves are just clear, no color. I need to rescue my DBLHC and see if it is still alive, but I don't want to get stung, and I don't want to poison my saltwater (with the material of the gloves?).

Please help! I need to start my rescue mission!


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## funlad3

It can come out of its shell, so it'll be fine. I'm assuming that it's not stuck though. It's probably just trying to get to some food. A hermit WILL come out of its shell if its in danger. Personal experience. Snails on the other hand will just sit there getting eaten by your unphotographable Snowflake eel.


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## BettaFriend

lol, I guess it is good to know the little guy can come out when it needs to. Do I need to get some shells that look about the right size for the little dwarf crab and put them in the tank? Are there any things I need to look out for if I am collect shells (jagged edges, non-calceas [without calcium, sorry about my spelling], certain shape such as round or spirally, etc.)? I don't plan to have any more DBLHC, I am just wondering if my 1 DBLHC needs some variety.

Anyway, I have rambled too long and I haven't even posted the good news about my little guy. I looked awhile ago and didn't see his shell stuck in that funky-shaped LR. It was gone. I stared at the tank and the caves and all that great stuff, and after 20 minutes I found my hermit crab upside-down on one of the top pieces of LR in the tank. He is moving, grooving, and still blue! Yay!

Anyway, thanks for the info funlad3! I was worried about my hermit crab dying of stress, but I think I wasn't too far behind it lol.

Thanks!


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## funlad3

Just have some extra shells in there and it will single out one that it likes. As long as it fits inside, it will be fine. Scavengers like hermits can take the heat of life. Just keep the temperature constant! :fun:


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## BettaFriend

Guys, I have a problem (No way!).:-(

Anyway, I think my tank is being over-cleaned. In other words, I have snails multipling like crazy! These really weird, long snails that look like they have an adjustable head that looks like a fuzzy caterpiller (anything come to mind?). My nuisence algae is disapearing, but that is what my Hermit Crab is supposed to eat. That is bad news! I think I have too many snails! Anyway, just look at this paticular nest that was laid, I think maybe, by my new Turbo Snail (you can see the TSnail in the pic);










I also haven't seen my crab, but that probably isn't a prob since my BLHC got unstuck the other day.


Now that I am done with the problems, I have a question. Is this coral?








It looks like bubble gum and it is all over some of the rocks on my tank (mainly small ones). Just wondering what it is.

BTW, what did you mean, funlad3, when you said keep the temp constant? I have had some slow, fluctuations over the past 2 days, are DBLHC especially threatened by a fluctuation in temp?

Also, what is this a colony of?








I have afew colonies of these guys, and I was wondering what they are.

Please help where you can.

Thanks!

BettaFriend out (for today).


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## TheOldSalt

The pink stuff is called coralline algae. It's a good thing.

The yellow things are called Yellow Polyps. No, really! Yellow Polyps. Nothing more, nothing less. They're also a good thing.

Temperature fluctuation of a degree or two is fine, but 4 or more can be very bad. _Can_ be, but usually isn't devastating.


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## BettaFriend

Thanks for the info, TOS!

My tank hasn't fluctuated much at all (only afew degrees in a 24 hour period), but the temp of the tank hovers above 80. I can't keep it below 80*F. I don't know why, my sump heater is set at 78*, but my SW tank is the hottest tank in my room. I'll have to start running the AC (not uncommon this time of year in this part of Texas) to keep the temp down.

Will anything eat the coraline algae? I am really worried that I am getting a snail problem. Big snails everywhere, my algae is decreasing. Should I use tap to encourage nuisence algae? I hear DBLHC love nuisence algae, and I am worried it isn't eating enough.

Thanks again!


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## funlad3

The hermit will eat ANYTHING, so don't purposely feed it, it'll be fine. Do you have any full tank pictures yet? I have MINE on my blog. (Click the link in my signature) Oh, and tell Cossie that this will happen to him too. The Yellow Polyps that is


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## BettaFriend

What do you mean by "the Yellow Polyps will happen to cossie?" Just wondering. There is nothing I have to do to care for these guys, is there?

I know it will eat alot (my DBLHC), but I am worried that the "alot" is running low. I am also worried not seeing the poor guy in the last 2 days.:sad:

Oh well, I am sure he'll show up when I least expect it (hopefully not under a piece of LR, dead, in 2 years or so).


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## funlad3

Oh, relax. Mine always disappear and reappear. I have 24 and I can only see about 8 at any given time. They will eat things that you don't even know you have, so you'll be fine. Just play it on the down low. 

As for the yellow polyps, Cossie BOUGHT some and I warned him that they would randomly spread EVERYWHERE. You'll need to frag them so that they don't overtake your whole tank. They'll eat microscopic animals and particles out of the water column, so yay for that. I also THINK that if you drop a shrimp inside of its tentacles, it will put it into its mouth like an anemone or my hammer corals.

On a side note, my eel is DEVOURING the insides of boiled oysters. It's pretty funny and I still promise to eventually get a picture /video soon. It also tries to eat my hermit crabs but hasn't figured out how yet. Oh joy... :fun:


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## BettaFriend

How do I "frag" the polyps? What is the downside to having a polyps invasion? I guess too much of a good thing isn't usually a good thing.

_(neat about the eel, funlad3! Can't wait to see some pics/vids!)_


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## funlad3

You'll need to cut the rock that they're on to frag them. As for why you would; do you want a meager polyp to choke out your expensive show corals? That may end up happening.


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## BettaFriend

"cut the rock that they are on"? How do I cut rock? They are on several of my big rocks and Base Rocks. Probably about 4 or 5 larger colonies, and numerous small ones. I guess there goes my potential reef tank.


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## funlad3

Nah, just don't let them get out of control. Which isn't hard, but you need to cut some off of the rock to kill the ones that get out of hand. :-(


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## BettaFriend

Oh, you meant cut the polyps off the LR. That seems alot easier. I'll take care of the little guys if they get out of control. (btw, how do I know when they are out of control?)

Thanks funlad3!


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## kay-bee

Sea urchins will eat coraline algae. 



BettaFriend said:


> I am really worried that I am getting a snail problem. Big snails everywhere...


Are these hitch hiker snails or snails that you purchased? How big are these snails and what kind are they? Most of the SW snails that are capable of reproducing in aquariums are small species.



BettaFriend said:


> Should I use tap to encourage nuisence algae? I hear DBLHC love nuisence algae, and I am worried it isn't eating enough.


I wouldn't recommend encouraging nuisance algae growth. A single hermit crab will find plenty to eat in a tank (many hobbyists have large numbers of hermits which aren't specifically fed). Intentionally feeding them defeats the purpose of having them as clean up crew.

Be careful when manually handling yellow polyps if you're intent on manually removing them. They're members of the zoanthid group and can be quite toxic.


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## kay-bee

BettaFriend said:


> ... how do I know when they are out of control?


When they approach numbers greater than what you desire. 

Keep in mind that under ideal conditions nearly every type of coral can grow in number and/or size.

You may want to consider selling or trading excess yellow polyps instead of killing them. And while they spread somewhat over time, nearly any coral will do that (or become phyically bigger).

Corals can also compete with each other and control the spread of each other. My first group of yellow polyps started out as two or three in number and in time increased to about thirty or more. Eventually they were all smothered out my colony of waving hand coral.


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## BettaFriend

kay-bee said:


> Are these hitch hiker snails or snails that you purchased? How big are these snails and what kind are they? Most of the SW snails that are capable of reproducing in aquariums are small species.


I guess, since I got the tank used, all my snails except 1 turbo snail I bought are "hitch-hikers". But the snails that might be taking over are actually pretty long. I will try to get a pic or vid up later. These are probably a good 2", is that a "big" snail, or is that kinda middle-class?



kay-bee said:


> I wouldn't recommend encouraging nuisance algae growth. A single hermit crab will find plenty to eat in a tank (many hobbyists have large numbers of hermits which aren't specifically fed). Intentionally feeding them defeats the purpose of having them as clean up crew.


Ok, I guess I will keep using Distilled.



kay-bee said:


> Be careful when manually handling yellow polyps if you're intent on manually removing them. They're members of the zoanthid group and can be quite toxic.


! Good grief! Another toxic invert! Great! Oh well. How should I handle these guys, and are they toxic to me, _and_/or the fish? How are they toxic, in other words, what would be the effects of mis-handling, and how do I avoid mishandling?



kay-bee said:


> Keep in mind that under ideal conditions nearly every type of coral can grow in number and/or size.


I have heard that a Square Pin 34" 96W Coralife 50/50 bulb would support coral. I am thinking about ordering one soon if you guys think it is a good idea. I will probably start a new beginner thread about coral. idk if damsels are reef-safe, and I still need at least 30lbs of medium grain sand, so it might be awhile before I decide to start.



kay-bee said:


> You may want to consider selling or trading excess yellow polyps instead of killing them. And while they spread somewhat over time, nearly any coral will do that (or become phyically bigger).


Really? I wonder if my lfs would take the polyps. Maybe I could supply them occasionally. I guess I would need to know how to remove it without harmful effects (see above for questions).



kay-bee said:


> Corals can also compete with each other and control the spread of each other. My first group of yellow polyps started out as two or three in number and in time increased to about thirty or more. Eventually they were all smothered out my colony of waving hand coral.


With the right dosage of...stuff (what stuff?) there shouldn't be a big competion, shoud there? Like those reef tanks that have coral "shoulder to shoulder". I guess coral have there own compatibility.

Thanks for the help kay-bee!


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## funlad3

Like I said, to safely frag this coral, you need to be able to cut the rock into pieces. You can't, so you either need to figure out a clever way of fragging (Propagating, for those of you who like the proper terminology), or you need to rearrange your rocks. 

Some corals will be LESS aggressive with an excess of trace elements, but there are still the corals that can simply grow and smother out other corals. It's almost impossible for you to have a naturally aggressive become non-aggressive. So it would seem that you need a way to get rid of some of the polyps.

Lastly, I want pictures of this tank. I'll make you a deal; I'll post pictures within 24 hours of the time that you post pictures. So if you want to see my assortment of Latin named fish, start snapping those pictures!


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## TheOldSalt

The easiest way to keep yellow polyps from taking over your tank is to simply LIKE them, and hope they grow. That usually wipes out anything.

As for the toxic reference, we're talking TOXIC, as in you can die. The regular 'shrooms called zooanthids harbor palytoxin, the deadliest poison known to science, and any exposure to it can kill you. Always wear gloves AND goggles when handling them, and keep your mouth shut. They squirt when disturbed, and I thought I was dead meat myself once when I got some shroom juice in my nose. I lived, but my whole face was paralyzed for a day and a half. Nasty stuff. Yet another reason some folks are trying to ban our hobby. Don't talk about it in public.
Yellow polyps aren't as bad, but still bad, so still be careful.


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## funlad3

"The easiest way to keep yellow polyps from taking over your tank is to simply LIKE them, and hope they grow. That usually wipes out anything."

That's very true, but why does it seem to happen that when we try to keep something in a better condition than in nature, it dies or does worse? I find it somewhat humorous.


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## BettaFriend

funlad3 said:


> Like I said, to safely frag this coral, you need to be able to cut the rock into pieces. You can't, so you either need to figure out a clever way of fragging (Propagating, for those of you who like the proper terminology), or you need to rearrange your rocks.


So how do I cut a rock to pieces? With a pocket knife?



funlad3 said:


> Some corals will be LESS aggressive with an excess of trace elements, but there are still the corals that can simply grow and smother out other corals. It's almost impossible for you to have a naturally aggressive become non-aggressive. So it would seem that you need a way to get rid of some of the polyps.


Wait, are you refering to polyps as a coral, or did you just mean that they would be in competition with the coral? Are corals actually "aggressive", like "I want you dead coral next to me!"? I think I have seen corals labeled as aggressive, I find it somewhat humorous.



funlad3 said:


> Lastly, I want pictures of this tank. I'll make you a deal; I'll post pictures within 24 hours of the time that you post pictures. So if you want to see my assortment of Latin named fish, start snapping those pictures!


Way cool! I think I have the pics, I just haven't had alot of time to post them. What do you want pics of? Rocks, fish, snails, hermit crab (haven't seen the poor guy since Sunday ), bristleworms, algae, etc., or a combination of all of it? I'll have them up by any catagory requested (I love photography).



TheOldSalt said:


> The easiest way to keep yellow polyps from taking over your tank is to simply LIKE them, and hope they grow. That usually wipes out anything.


I know I am the second guy to quote this, but I didn't get it the first time. "like them" and "that usually wipes out anything"? By _anything_ did you mean _everything_? I don't get it, if they die, am I going to lose everything, or will that ensure the survival of everything?



TheOldSalt said:


> As for the toxic reference, we're talking TOXIC, as in you can die. The regular 'shrooms called zooanthids harbor palytoxin, the deadliest poison known to science, and any exposure to it can kill you. Always wear gloves AND goggles when handling them, and keep your mouth shut. They squirt when disturbed, and I thought I was dead meat myself once when I got some shroom juice in my nose. I lived, but my whole face was paralyzed for a day and a half. Nasty stuff. Yet another reason some folks are trying to ban our hobby. Don't talk about it in public.
> Yellow polyps aren't as bad, but still bad, so still be careful.


:shock::-o:sad::!:! Ok, so I have an invert that can literally KILL me!?!? That is just great! If my parents ever hear about this....!. Man, I can't believe it, I was moving a rock with those things all over it. Are you saying that if I had touched one of those things when I was moving that rock I could have died!?!? Or been seriously paralized!?!? WHY DIDN'T ANYONE MENTION THIS EARLIER WHEN I POSTED THE PICS OF THOSE LITTLE DEVILS!?!? Is it too much to ask!? Sorry, I am getting carried away, but at least I am still alive.

Anyway, does this poison have a color and/or smell? Am I going to know immediately if I am exposed to this crap, or am I going to find out later when my hand is rotting off? Should I wear gloves EVERYTIME I touch the water (even when I am NOT going to touch LR? Like just the surface?)? Will this kill my fish if they get "squirted" by this stuff? Am I dealing with a potential Game Over as far as aquarium life in my SW tank as I know it? Wow, this stuff can be upsetting sometimes.

Hey, just a side thought, could these little critters from hell have killed my DBLHC? IDK, but my DBLHC looked interested in the way things worked, maybe he could have been "Squirted"? Just a thought.

I guess I do owe a thanks for the toxic info. I would have probably ended up exposed and dead some time later this week. It sure is a good thing I am a member of this forum (I mean it)!


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## funlad3

The polyps are actually a type of soft coral, hence the word polyp. The poison itself is dangerous, but you (Correct me if I'm wrong) need to have the poison get into your system, like through an eye, your nose, or your mouth. If your hermit died, you'd know,so stop worrying about that. As for the take care of it thing, he means as soon as you try to take care or raise one particular thing, it consistently does worse, shrivels up, and dies. Fun, huh?

Back to the poison, *I* forgot (Whoops! ). It's not like you were going to think, "Hmm, I think I'm going to eat this goop that comes out of my corals! It looks good!".

On a good note, I think I'll add my footage/pictures before you. I have some pretty cool shtuff. But I want to see EVERYTHING!!! To end on a happy note, my eel ate some oyster. Your fish eat crap. Your hermit is eating SOMETHING! (Or the fish would eat him! (By which I mean if it were dead, the fish would have eaten it.))


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## kay-bee

BettaFriend said:


> I have heard that a Square Pin 34" 96W Coralife 50/50 bulb would support coral...


I forgot what the volume of your tank is. What is the length, width and height of your aquarium? Is it possible for you to upgrade to a dual 96W fixture or T5HO?



BettaFriend said:


> idk if damsels are reef-safe


For the most part they are. 



BettaFriend said:


> Like those reef tanks that have coral "shoulder to shoulder". I guess coral have there own compatibility.


That's correct. Some corals are nice neighbors. Others will sting corals that come into contact with them. Coral competition is quite common (both in captivity and in the wild). Aggressive corals will actually deploy sweeper tentacls or cast their mesenterial filaments to seek and destroy other corals within range. Other corals engage in allelopathy ('chemical warfare'), emitting toxins in the water (the coral doesn't have to physically touch the 'target' of the attack). Other corals with encrust over rivals, some can overshadow rivals (block light from reaching them), and so on.


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## kay-bee

funlad3 said:


> The polyps are actually a type of soft coral, hence the word polyp.


Actually a coral polyp is the smallest living unit of a coral. Stony corals and soft corals are comprised of polyps.

Polyps are comprised of soft coral tissue if that's what you meant.


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## funlad3

Please, stop contradicting me! JK. Please do. If I said, "The polyps are actually a type of soft coral, hence the word polyp." That would mean that the polyps are a soft coral. Just like a zoa polyp is a coral, but is also part of a coral colony. I believe that these yellow polyps are the same way.

BF, you can cut the rock with bone cutters, which are somewhat cheap. Just Google it! Hopefully, I'll have my pictures/movies up tonight.


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## BettaFriend

kay-bee said:


> I forgot what the volume of your tank is. What is the length, width and height of your aquarium? Is it possible for you to upgrade to a dual 96W fixture or T5HO?


Unfortunately, right now, I can't even afford the bulb for one fixture. The people said the bulb burt out, but is there a way to tell for sure, other than plugging the fixture in, flipping the switch to "on", and dropping it in the water? Just don't want to buy a bulb and find out that the bulb wasn't the problem. (oh, while I remember, the tank is a 29/30g regular)



kay-bee said:


> ....Others will sting corals that come into contact with them....Aggressive corals will actually deploy sweeper tentacls or cast their mesenterial filaments to seek and destroy other corals within range. Other corals engage in allelopathy ('chemical warfare'), emitting toxins in the water (the coral doesn't have to physically touch the 'target' of the attack). Other corals with encrust over rivals, some can overshadow rivals (block light from reaching them), and so on.


That sounds like fun to watch! JK!



kay-bee said:


> Actually a coral polyp is the smallest living unit of a coral. Stony corals and soft corals are comprised of polyps.
> 
> Polyps are comprised of soft coral tissue if that's what you meant.





funlad3 said:


> Please, stop contradicting me! JK. Please do. If I said, "The polyps are actually a type of soft coral, hence the word polyp." That would mean that the polyps are a soft coral. Just like a zoa polyp is a coral, but is also part of a coral colony. I believe that these yellow polyps are the same way.


Ok, I am confused, are polyps soft coral, or are they just made of the same stuff?



funlad3 said:


> BF, you can cut the rock with bone cutters, which are somewhat cheap.


Bone cutters_..."Yes, oh hi. I am a 15 year old who would like to buy a nice cheap set of bone cutters"..."Why do I need them? Um...."..."I need them because I have saltwater fish!"..."No! That isn't what I meant!"..."No, security, let me go! I want a lawyer!"_ LOL, just kidding!



funlad3 said:


> Hopefully, I'll have my pictures/movies up tonight.


Man, I'm sorry funlad. My family stays up on Netflix all night, and when I finally get the computer..."you can have _10 minutes!_ No more!". *sigh* I don't have time to upload anything, but let me check my photobucket...

Back! haha, you didn't know I was opening my photobucket and that took some time lol. Never mind. Anyway, here are the pics I already have. Not all are my best, but I have gotten some great pics of the shrimp lately (not uploaded). Enjoy!









Yellow Polyps









Coraline Algae









Unknown Species of Shrimp









Coral Skeleton









Organ Pipe Coral that is dead (still red for weeks, though)

















My DBLHC









My relatively new Turbo Snail (don't know what kind)


I don't know if this vid will work, but it is a tank tour.









My tank (this was when I first got it setup, still abit sandy)









Someone called this a "Turban Snail". I guess that is what it is?









another skeleton

























Phillip the Humbug/Three Stripe Damselfish

























Zanny, my female Blue Devil Damselfish

How is that for Catchup? I might be able to upload abunch more pics later, but I have had very limited time on the computer lately, and I am looking into setting up a tank for a Pacman frog.

Anyway, hope this will do for now, funlad lol! I'll try to get some up-to-date pics up later! btw, I want links to all your threads with pics of vids, funlad!

Thanks for all the info guys!


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## funlad3

The yellow polyps ARE LIKE ZOAS! They grow individually and in colonies. They are a coral. You can get bone cutters off of Drs. F&S for cheap.

Nice tank tour! Now you just need to get the lights going so that the water doesn't look orange! Man am I going to blow you out of the water tomorrow afternoon when I get everything online. You'll die of jealousy. I'm going to the Sea Schor tomorrow to try to place a special order for a Solaris Fairy Wrasse. Yay. I'll also try to trade in my extra RIO 2500 for _some_ store credit... Why am I posting this here you ask? When you don't have any cash, (And of course I'm babysitting right after I get back from the store!) Bargaining and resourcefulness is just as good. I hope to get a coral tomorrow, depending on the value of the pump.

Talk to you tomorrow!

-Fl3


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## BettaFriend

Wow, sounds like an expensive fish lol! Can't wait to see the new coral you are adding! Don't forget to link the threads you post the pics on!

So polyps _are_ coral! Yay! Can I call myself a reefer now? jk! I wish. The only thing that is getting between me and a reef setup is a $55 bulb.


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## funlad3

The reason I need to go in and place an order is the stores main focus is corals, so they only have a few really common fish. The fish is somewhat expensive:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+369&pcatid=369

Yes, thats the Solaris. The fish has about ∞ different names. Clown fairy wrasse, tricolor fairy wrasse, solar wrasse, redheaded solon wrasse, it goes on and on.


You are a reefer. You have some coral/pest thing, so you're in the club. I'll add my pictures at about 4:00 forum time. Wait until you see some of these pictures. I even got some video of Anguis hunting small snails! And attacking Piscis thinking he's food! That was FUNNY!


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## BettaFriend

Oh, that is the wrasse you were talking about earlier, just under a different name. I was wondering why you were changing wrasse speices lol.

Can't wait to see the vid, funlad3! I don't think I have ever seen a pic or vid of your snowflake eel. (wait, piscus thought Angius was food??)

BETTAFRIEND IS A REEFER!

-yellow polyps
-bright red pipe organ (thats dead)

Yay!


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## funlad3

Anguis thought Piscis was food. It was absolutely hilarious, because even though Anguis is the same length, Piscis is about six times as tall. You'll see.


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## kay-bee

Thanks for clarifying the tank size and providing the pics and video!



BettaFriend said:


> Unfortunately, right now, I can't even afford the bulb for one fixture...


Because this system has no lighting, this may actually *change* the assessment in regards to your alleged "yellow polyps". 

Yellow polyps (Protopalythoa sp.) are photosynthetic and would die without light, perhaps within 10-15 days. If these polyps have been in the tank the entire time they may actually be some sort of non-photosynthetic colonial anemome or hydroid or something like that (filter feeders). How long have they been in your tank?



BettaFriend said:


> Ok, I am confused, are polyps soft coral, or are they just made of the same stuff?


Coral polyps are the living soft parts of corals (both the polyps of soft and stony corals are 'soft tissue' matter). Some coral polyps may be soft corals but not all coral polyps are soft corals. For example, in the hobby, stony corals are generally placed in one of two categories: SPS (small-polyp stony) and LPS (large-polyp, stony).

To further confuse the matter, :razz: , not all polyps are corals (anemones, hydroids and other organisms may be comprised of polyps but aren't corals). 



BettaFriend said:


> Organ Pipe Coral that is dead (still red for weeks, though).


The red color is pretty much a permanent feature of the skeleton.


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## funlad3

So are you with me or against me here?


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## kay-bee

I'm with ya! ;-)

It's just now that I'm thinking perhaps they aren't yellow polyps based on the lack of lighting on the system.


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## BettaFriend

Well, I guess they started showing up about a week or 2 ago (I know, not very specific, sorry). It took awhile for them to appear after I setup the tank January 30-31st. I do have my tank next to a window (I know, not good), so it gets quite abit of sunlight during the day. The really come out during full sun, right when the light is shining over them.

I am thinking they do photosynthisize (however that is spelled), because I put a top on the tank a day or 2 ago, and they are starting to look bad. I am wondering, are the polyps any threat to any fish I put in there?

I still haven't seen my DBLHC.. I don't think I will see his adorable blue and orange legs and black and white claws and tiny black eyes ever again.

Hey funlad3, pics up? I still want a link posted on this thread or your "I won!!!" thread that I am subscribed to. Thanks!


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## BettaFriend

*Found it!!!*

Yesterday night my inverts were having one of those "lets come out and worry our master by our numerous numbers!" parties. I was frowning while I was browsing through the snail-filled (about 10 2" guys) tank when all of the sudden....

.....MY DWARF BLUE-LEG HERMIT CRAB!!!!

I always told myself it would apear when I least expected it. I wasn't even looking for the little guy. I figured I would "least expect it" when I would be cleaning out my tank ready to take it to college (that is a long way down the road!) in afew years.

It was on top of a rock I will now call Blue Leg Rock, the highest rock in the tank. Such a funny little blue guy!


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## BettaFriend

Check out these threads;

Starting a Reef Tank?
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/reef/31450-starting-reef-tank.html#post274483

BettaFriends Tanks and Fish (pictures)
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fish-aquarium-pictures/31441-bettafriends-tanks-fish-pictures.html


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## BettaFriend

**sigh**

I found a deal on craigslist for a t5 50/50 96W 36" bulb and fixture for $75 in a town about an hour away from here. It would mean a fixture almost as cheap as the bulb, that comes with the bulb. They are both used. I really don't have the money for such an offer right now, though.

_(edit; does F&S put a warranty or a trial period on their bulbs? Anyone know?)_


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## BettaFriend

*My silly DBLHC!*

Last night I saw my DBLHC. I watched it scoot around the tank with its shell. I was thinking about how much he had grown, and that he would require a bigger shell to be his full size. Anyway, I watched him eat some nuisense algae for abit, and then I walked in the other room.

Came back later and he was killing this poor, long shelled snail. After stabbing, clawing, and whatever else he did (I came in near the end of it), he casually crawled away from the crime scene.

I thought,"that was odd, but maybe he is looking for a shell?" He was. I didn't know it at the time, but he wasn't happy with the shell from the rather long snail he killed. He tried to pick it up, and move it around, I guess to test it, but he abandoned it.

So my snails crawls about 4" towards me when he sees another snail. One of my Turbans. They look just like a rock, and they are tall and cone shaped. This was a small Turban. I thought that my DBLHC thought that this snail was a rock. He climbed on top of it like he would any rock. This time was different though...although he was only acting nicely for about 10 seconds, my mind was wondering why the little guy was crawling in circles around the snail. My DBLHC knew something I didn't know...the weak spot of the snail!

Suddenly the crab swooped down in a flash and started clawing up the snail from underneath! He was strong and picked up the shell so that he could get in and there was nothing my poor turban snail could do but die. So my DBLHC won the battle. I thought that he would just move on like last time. I watched him for awhile, and then the crab went somewhere else, so I figured he was killing just for the heck of it.

This morning I go in the room and see my hermit crab's shell. It was propped up against the small turban snail's shell he killed yesterday. I saw him pop out of the big turban shell. He looked like he was stuck. The shell was too big and he couldn't get standing on the ground. Afew times it looked like he was trying to go back into his old shell, but either he grabbed the old shell and made the shells moved (which spooked him greatly), or my Blue Devil would swim somewhat close (not even seeing him) making my DBL nervous about being vulnerable.

Anyway, as far as I know the poor little guy is still stuck. Any suggestions?


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