# Advice on a brand new tank



## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

I just introduced myself in another section but I wanted to make sure that this got asked in the right place.

It isn't an original question and I probably have most of the info that I need from reading similar threads on this forum, but I want to make sure I do it right.

When my wife and I first got our tank, we waited a bit over 24 hours before adding fish like we were told to by our local pet store. Less than a day after adding our 4 fish, they were all dead. It is a 12 gallon round tank with conditioned tap water, a heater set to 78 degrees, and a 20 gallon filter.

After doing more research, we realized that 24 hours is NOT long enough to cycle a tank before adding fish. we changed 2/3 of the water after the fish died and we'll be waiting another two weeks before adding new fish. Is there anything else we need to worry about? I read that you need something to help grow the bacteria. I was just going to use fish food. Will that work?

Also, we're thinking about getting 2 upside-down catfish and a molly to start off with, are those fish hardy enough for a new tank?

Thanks in advance for the help. Even if I didn't ask it directly, let me know if there's anything I'm missing for this new tank. I don't want to kill the next batch of fish like I did the last ones.


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## EquineSoul7294 (Nov 2, 2015)

Hey there and welcome!
Sorry you lost your first group of fish! You're right to wait until your tank cycles now. However, it usually takes anywhere 4-8 weeks to fully cycle (in my experience). 
Yes, you do need something to kick-start your cycle/grow bacteria.

The most common ways I've seen to do this are:
1. Put a dead shrimp from the grocery store (or dead fish if you have one) in the tank to start decaying. It's a little less messy if you tie it inside a portion of pantyhose & then throw it in).
2. Fish food (like you mentioned). I don't personally use this method because of the mess, but I know plenty of people who do.
3. Using cheap live fish to fill the water with pee/poop/food. I've used minnows with success. Just don't use anything you can't handle losing.
4. Adding filter media/sponge/gravel or anything you can from an established tank can help some. 
5. Add pure ammonia to your tank. (I do not know anyone who does this anymore because of the struggle to keep things chemically balanced. I'm sure there's people on here who could tell you more about that one, though).

You mentioned you had read up on the process, so I won't go into a lot of detail you probably already know. But I would get an API test kit and test often or you will not reliably know when you are finished cycling. Do partial water changes if/when any levels get way too high. Once your levels are stable, add stock slowly, in stages. That way you can keep your bacteria where it can handle the changing bio-load of your tank. 

I wouldn't add the catfish or the molly until fully cycled, if you want 100% to keep them. It's hard to look at an empty tank for so long, I know, but patience is the key in this hobby. Other than that, more patience!

If you wait, you'll be able to keep your fish alive. I know my cats are hardy and have survived a lot, but I wouldn't risk cycling with them.


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

Honestly mollies are pretty hardy and cheap you can try and cycle your tank with a single smallish cheap Molly sometimes the big chain fish graveyards, sorry I mean pet stores have $1 Molly sales

The shrimp thing works well too or if you have buddy with a long running successful tank ask him for a handful of gravel or some of his used filter media make sure it stays wet if it drys out the bacteria will die off


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Not sure a 12 gallon tank will be sufficient to set up a proper habitat. ( is this a column tank? )

A proper set up for Synodontis nigriventris should include structures with tunnels / caves made from rocks and driftwood along with large leafed plants. 

You may want to add another as they do best in small shoals, with 3 normally being the minimum number.


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll repost after the cycling is done to let you all know how it went.

I agree that 12 gallons is a bit small. We have our eyes on a 40 gallon tank but didn't want to get in too far over our heads. I'd rather accidentally kill 4 fish in a 12 gallon tank than 15 in a 40. To answer your question, it's not a column tank, it's spherical like a fishbowl (but bigger).


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## Elliott225 (Jan 9, 2014)

First let me say a 12g tank, IMHO, is more difficult to cycle than the 40g. The process is the same.

To start the tank off right add the declor and get the temp stable. While you can add fish a day or so later, wait about 6 or 7 days to see if the tank temp stay where you set it. Get just 2 fish like the mollies or guppies. Add them and get a product call Stability by SeaChem. It adds beneficial bacteria and jump starts the cycle. Now, wait. Don't fiddle with the tank by adding more fish. Get an ammonia test kit and follow the directions and let the tank go thru the process. I found you really can't speed it up or shorten it. Nature does as she wants. Once the ammonia drops to zero, then add more fish. A 12g doesn't hold more the 12 inches of fish. That's like 12 1 inch fish or 4 3 inch fish. But a 12 inch fish wouldn't do well.

I've done tanks from 5g up to 150g and they all took about 6 weeks to settle in.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

It may sound weird, but the bigger tank you have, the easier it is to maintain. Plus you get to have more fish .


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

In this hobby bigger is always better


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

You say this tank is round like a fishbowl, but is 12 gallons, and has a 20 gallon filter?

Okay.... if it's shaped like a fishbowl, don't fill it all the way to the top. That robs it of critical surface area. The more air/water contact you can give it, the better. make sure the filter still has enough water to run. and the heater is covered.

Next, go to Walmart and get something called SafeStart. Get a small bottle. Shake it up and dump the entire contents into the tank. Wait one day. Ta-DA! your tank is cycled.

Cycling is the process of growing enough bacteria to keep the tank waste processed. using SafeStart lets you get around the wait and just install the needed bacteria all at once. There are many other bacteria products available, but only 4 of them actually work, and SafeStart is the one that's cheap and readily available.

Don't add a bunch of fish all at once. Just add one or two every 10 days or so, unless they're very tiny fish.


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## TheTank (Dec 15, 2015)

Welcome Ryan! I'm new to this forum as well. 
Congratz on your new tank! Sorry to hear you've lost some friends already :/

Looks like you've already received some good advice!
Here's what I didn't see mentioned and would like to add. . 
So, bacteria has been covered and you know that it is very important. 
I recommend getting some bio media to house the added bacteria you are trying to establish. It comes in many forms. Bacteria likes to cling to surfaces and doesn't much live in the water itself. So while it will establish itself on your filter and gravel, more area to grow doesn't hurt. 

Some things that are important to watch while cycling. . 
Keep your water temp as consistent as possible.
Keep Ammonia and Nitrites around 1.0ppm and not too much over.
Add bacteria w every water change until tank is cycled. ( I normally do even when cycled just for good measure )

There are 2 forms of bacteria. 1 turns ammonia into nitrite and the other turns nitrite into nitrate. So when you see ammonia at 0 your half way there. Do be patient after, as the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates take about twice as long to multiply. Once you see Nitrates in your tank the cycle is complete, but not fully established until you see both ammonia and nitrite spikes drop to zero.

Keep us updated and feel free to ask any questions you may have. Hope this helps!


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

Okay all, we're almost there!

Sorry if I haven't responded to every post. I've read this thread numerous times and referred back to it when needed. I really do appreciate all the help.

So... My wife and I are planning on adding fish to our tank TOMORROW! We've been cycling since my original post, adding food to the tank to act as a medium to grow the bacteria (I liked the idea of using shrimp, etc., but we have a lot of company over and I didn't want it to look too gross). I do, however, have plenty of decorations to provide surface area and have a heater that keeps the tank at 78F. I bought a test kit yesterday and both the ammonia and the nitrites are at or near zero (hard to be too precise with the color coded kits imo). My water is reasonably hard, but according to local pet stores it's pretty consistent with their tanks (just under 8.0 p.h. levels) and I've heard that consistency can actually be more important than the actual level.

Tomorrow I'm going to buy two mollies and see how it goes! I'll be testing the water levels daily and I'll let y'all know what happens.


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

On another note, we're still recovering from the annual holiday spending spree but I think that sometimes in January or February I'll be able to convince my wife to get a 40g tank.


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## bullseyejoey (Aug 30, 2012)

Once you're sure of the mollies survival, I would recommend getting at least 4 more because they are schooling fish, and if you're lucky, you may have some baby mollies coming your way!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

After you get things cycled with the rotten food, change some water.


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

Ryan: any tank takes 6-8 weeks to cycle, even with fish in the tank. If you seed the tank with bacteria, you can get a cycle complete under 6 weeks. I have cycled my 5.5 gallon in 3 weeks because I put three decorations from my 55 gallon in the 5.5 gallon. The decor obviously had bacteria on them still. But without seeding the tank with bacteria, just adding the food, it will take 6-8 weeks for the tank to cycle completely.


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

We did it! We got two female mollies. One black molly and one yellow balloon belly molly. Hopefully adding some more in a week or so depending on what the chemicals in the tank look like.



bullseyejoey said:


> Once you're sure of the mollies survival, I would recommend getting at least 4 more because they are schooling fish, and if you're lucky, you may have some baby mollies coming your way!


We're actually hoping not to get any babies. We got all females so they won't be able to breed. I agree about getting more to let them school, though. Will mollies school with any other fish?



TheOldSalt said:


> After you get things cycled with the rotten food, change some water.


Taken care of  thanks for the advice, though. We did about a 1/3 water change yesterday.



BabyGirl77 said:


> Ryan: any tank takes 6-8 weeks to cycle, even with fish in the tank. If you seed the tank with bacteria, you can get a cycle complete under 6 weeks. I have cycled my 5.5 gallon in 3 weeks because I put three decorations from my 55 gallon in the 5.5 gallon. The decor obviously had bacteria on them still. But without seeding the tank with bacteria, just adding the food, it will take 6-8 weeks for the tank to cycle completely.


We've had the tank for about 4 weeks now. I'd feel more comfortable waiting, but we're also really excited to see fish in the tank. I'm hoping that the tank is cycled enough to support 2 mollies and that their excrement will help the tank finish cycling. I'm going to be monitoring the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate daily, though, so I'll know if the process is going south.


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## bullseyejoey (Aug 30, 2012)

I've seen fish of similar colors/ patterns group together such as a tiger barb and a very small clown loach, platies may school up with mollies and if you get some platies, then swordtails as well... So much to choose from, have fun with it!


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

ryan51 said:


> We've had the tank for about 4 weeks now. I'd feel more comfortable waiting, but we're also really excited to see fish in the tank. I'm hoping that the tank is cycled enough to support 2 mollies and that their excrement will help the tank finish cycling. I'm going to be monitoring the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate daily, though, so I'll know if the process is going south.



You should be fine.

Keep up with the water changes, _resist_ adding more fish for a week or two.


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

bullseyejoey said:


> I've seen fish of similar colors/ patterns group together such as a tiger barb and a very small clown loach, platies may school up with mollies and if you get some platies, then swordtails as well... So much to choose from, have fun with it!


Yes, tiger barbs and clown loaches will school with each other. I haven't seen mollies, platies and swordtails school with each other though.


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## EquineSoul7294 (Nov 2, 2015)

I've had platies & guppies together as a group before, too. It wasn't my intention, but it happened, lol.


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

Just tested the chemical levels in the water. Ammonia has gone up to .25 ppm, hopefully nothing to worry about yet. According to my kit those are still safe levels. I'll test it again later today.

My fish have been rather sluggish, though. When I first got them, they swam all around the tank exploring. Now they're sticking almost exclusively to the back of the tank, especially inside the castle and hiding in the plants. Is this because of the new environment? Is it because they were going to sleep last night/waking up this morning? Should I be worried?

On a side note, I looked up sword tails and we love them. We'll probably get a few platties and sword tails, especially smaller ones since our tank is only 12gal.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i think you are doing just fine so far ryan..you will often get a mini cycle here and there after adding a couple of fish or maybe over feeding a bit..but as the bacteria grows they will take care of it quite rapidly..
i have always liked the swordtails..i recently picked up some albino koi hi fin lyretail swords that i will grow out this winter and will put outside to breed in the spring..


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

Ammonia is still at the same level, about .25ppm. Nitrite is also holding steady but the nitrate is very very slowly rising. I take this as a good sign that the nitrogen cycle is doing it's job. 

I also readjusted the filter so there isn't as much of a current. The fish are really perky and active now. I think the excessive water flow was tiring them out.

We named the yellow balloon belly molly Otis and the black molly Blacky Chan


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## ryan51 (Dec 9, 2015)

I also decided not to feed them as often after reading up on the subject. It seems like 2 out of 3 days is safe for the fish and I'm hoping it also keeps the ammonia down while the bacteria catches up.


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