# Researching for my 1st cichlid tank..



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Hello, I have a 45 gallon bowfront thats I just started cycling with Eco Start tonight. 

Id like to keep Africans and from what ive read fish from lake Malawi seem like a good first tank.

I've been reading up cichlids from lake Malawi and id like to know what types of Malawi's would better suit a newbie? I have some ideas of what types like yellow's, zebras but I'd like to see what everyone thinks.

Id like at least two different types of cichlids in my tank.

I dont want any breeding.

Also id like non agressive(for cichlids) fish.

What Malawi's, and how many and of what sex would be good for a first timer?

Again tank is a 45 gallon bowfront, plenty of rockwork and caves.

And also what other non cichlid fish could i keep in the tank, if at all possible. Like a algae eater, anything?

thanks for any help. I've read so much about them lately I feel like i'm studying for an exam.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2005)

you could keep a synodontis catfish with your cichlids.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

I looked up what a synodontis catfish looks like and they're exactly what I saw at the pet shop tonight in a cichlid tank. Thanks i'll probably add one of them.

Also cichlids from lake Malawi are known as mbuna's (umm-boo-na) correct?


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

I would do a pea**** personally with 50/50 lighting, black tahiton moon sand, would really bring it out.

The mbuna are a mean species and stay mostly at the bottem. Pea****s are bigger, more colorful IMO. The syno multi's are very cool guys to go with them, a bit pricey at ur LFS mine here run $25-30 for one, but i sell them for only $8.50/each.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

After looking up pea****s for the last half hour I think i'll go with them. They seem to be more of what I was looking for.

What species of pea****s would be good for a first tank?


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

all the same really. i would suggest this kind for a real diverse mix:
Aulo. Ngara flametail(reddish/blue), Aulo. Maleri, aulo. Lwanda red top, Aulo. Lemon jake, Sci. Fryeri(blue hap), Aulo. Rubscense(red).
That's a good starter for them. Even adding Tawinee reef & red empress(haps) be good too.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

MalawianPro said:


> all the same really. i would suggest this kind for a real diverse mix:
> Aulo. Ngara flametail(reddish/blue), Aulo. Maleri, aulo. Lwanda red top, Aulo. Lemon jake, Sci. Fryeri(blue hap), Aulo. Rubscense(red).
> That's a good starter for them. Even adding Tawinee reef & red empress(haps) be good too.


I don't want any breeding at all. Can I get a tank with just males or females, or is there more to breeding than just having a tank with males and females?
This is all new to me. thanks


----------



## IloveCichlids (Jul 11, 2005)

The Red Empress could get too big for that tank. I would stick with more peackocks than haps due too size, or just watch the full size of the Haps. I would go with all males as females do not color in the pea**** or hap. types. 

Ngara Falmetail
Sunshine Maleri
Eureka
German red
Lwanda
Lemon Jake
Take a look at Cichlid-forum.com
go to profile Malawi Peackocks and Haps

Happy hunting


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

If males and femals are mixed what is the % rate that a female could get pregnant? Is it a 100% sure thing?


----------



## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

not 100% I wouldnt think as some breed easier in captivity than others. I would say its about a 60% chance, depending on the species. Why are you so worried about them breeding?? You could always give the fry away..


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

females are haps/pea****s are a dull grey color, males are always the most colorful ones.


----------



## DUSTIN323 (Sep 21, 2005)

Yeah if they breed than just let nature take it's course in your tank I have a tank full of platies always having babies but only 2-3 from each batch grow up the others are eaten or get sucked up by the filter when there's too many I just get rid of a few. But I don't think they'll breed just like that I mean they're not like livebearers


----------



## Lisachromis (Jan 19, 2005)

I would go all male as well, as pea****s and some haps crossbreed very easily and takes a long time for the males to colour up. That means that you won't know until it's way too late that a cross occured. An all male tank would also make a nice display.


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Personally, I love the Pea****s and have been raising/breeding Malawians for over 15 years (With a 5 year break). I currently have 6 Lemon Labs in my tank (Small and very beautiful bottom dwellers) as well as a Syn. Ocellifer catfish. Now that I have lost every fish I bought at my LFS and a few nicer ones because of the LFS fish my tank is in great shape.

All 6 of my lemons came from MalawianPro and they have the most beautiful color to them. Excellent health and I highly reccomend you take his advise and perhaps even purchase from him if possible.

Having said that, Avoid live plants as the cichlids will destroy (or eat) them. Haps (Pea****s of the Alunacara Variety) are excellent mid water dwellers with supurb coloring. I try to mix males and females as most cichlids are territorial and males will fight, sometimes to the death in smaller tanks (Less that 100+ gals).

Avoid, P. Socilofi, M. Auratus and several other of the so called Mbuna's because they can and will get very aggressive. The Labidichromis (Lemon Labs) are peaceful as are the Alunacara.

I think you will enjoy your new friends very much.

Keri


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Get all males one of each kind since they're more aggressive toward conspecifics and in the presence of females. Many Mbuna breeder keep harems so there all always extra males. Stick with Pseudotropheus and Labidochromis. Melanochomis are too mean and most Pea****s get kind of big for your tank. Also avoid Socolofi (Pindani cichlid) and elongatus for aggression.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I would go with Lake Tang. Shellies. Just a personal preference though.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

emc7 said:


> Get all males one of each kind since they're more aggressive toward conspecifics and in the presence of females. Many Mbuna breeder keep harems so there all always extra males. Stick with Pseudotropheus and Labidochromis. Melanochomis are too mean and most Pea****s get kind of big for your tank. Also avoid Socolofi (Pindani cichlid) and elongatus for aggression.


I definatly want to have Labidochromis in my tank. If I had my tank set up about a month ago I could of gotten a bunch of yellow fry from my lfs for so cheap.

I just looked up some Pseudotropheus. Nice looking fish. How many of the yellows and Pseudotropheus would you reccomend for a 46 gallon tank? Ill aslo be adding a few type of catfish, syno's maybe.

The tank has had nitrites for two days now so it should be to much longer.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

You could have a tanginikan/malawi tank if you wish. This is one suggestion:
(All cichlids must be the same size otherwise you'll have aggression/overstocking problems etc)
3 kilos of tufa rock.
Coral sand
6 Neolamprologus brichardi (3 pairs)
4 N. lelupi (two pairs)
4 labidochromis (2 pairs)
2 synodontis
Or:
4 kilos of brown lavae rock (don't buy light stuff like the other setup, aggression will increase)
Non compacting sand
4 melanochromis auratus (1 male 3 females)
4 M. Johanni (1 male 3 females)
4 juliochromis (2 pairs of any smaller species)
4 Lamprologus compressiceps (two pairs)

Warning: The second list of fish is of a more aggressive set-up, and the fish mentioned shouldn't be mixed with the fish in the first list unless the tank is very spacious.
There are 16 fish in each setup. This is a nice number, don't go overcrowding and adding in fish each week that you haven't a clue about. A well planned tank is well worth the wait. Another thing is there should be a lot of rock with nooks and cranies in for the fish to hide in and feel more secure.

If these setups don't appeal to you, then a tank full of pea****s will be OK. But just remember that the setups mentioned above are well thought out setups that will cause minimal problems, with maximum enjoyment from the mix of fish and breeding from unique species. "Maliwian Pro" loves his Peac0cks, but doesn't know what he's missing by mixing tanginikans with malawis. The pH must be between 8.3 and 8.5 if mixing malis and tangs.
Good luck, and remember don't add too many boring fish that don't look nice to add extra bioload to the filters, and don't put to few fish in that hide all the time otherwise you may as well just have a tank full of rocks with no heaters or filters.


----------



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Hi fishnoob. I just found this thread. Sounds like you are getting good advice on choosing fish. How is your cycle going. I'm not familiar with "eco-start". Some of that kind of stuff doesn't do anything for you. Good luck.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

ron v said:


> Hi fishnoob. I just found this thread. Sounds like you are getting good advice on choosing fish. How is your cycle going. I'm not familiar with "eco-start". Some of that kind of stuff doesn't do anything for you. Good luck.



Yeah I have a feeling that it was pretty much a waste of money and not needed. 

I'm really just looking for a simple tank. A couple types of cichlids and a few catfish. I know this may not seen interesting if you been doing this for a long time but i'm new at this and just want to keep them alive. If i could get 8-10 cichlids and 2-3 catfish id be happy.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Then this setup is for you:
3 kilos of tufa rock.
Coral sand
4 Neolamprologus brichardi (2 pairs)
2 N. lelupi (one pairs)
4 labidochromis (2 pairs)
2 synodontis


----------



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

The nitrogen cycle is just as important for a simple tank as for any other. And don't sell yourself short. A tank with a couple of types of cichlids and a cat or two can be very interesting. You are certainly doing it right. You are here asking questions. I'm sure your tank will be super. BTW, I have 35 tanks in my fish room and most have only one type of fish in it. Just watch the "cycle". It is the #1 cause of grief for new aquariums.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Cichlid Man said:


> Then this setup is for you:
> 3 kilos of tufa rock.
> Coral sand
> 4 Neolamprologus brichardi (2 pairs)
> ...



I really like that list, thanks. When you say pair do you mean a male and a female or just males?


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

ron v said:


> The nitrogen cycle is just as important for a simple tank as for any other. And don't sell yourself short. A tank with a couple of types of cichlids and a cat or two can be very interesting. You are certainly doing it right. You are here asking questions. I'm sure your tank will be super. BTW, I have 35 tanks in my fish room and most have only one type of fish in it. Just watch the "cycle". It is the #1 cause of grief for new aquariums.


Yeah I think i'm half way done with the cycle. My ammonia went to 0 ppm two days ago. My nitrites are around 1 ppm.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Idealy M+F pairs yes, as two males will fight if kept on their own.
In the shop pick the biggest male and the biggest female, that way you are more likely to get a breeding pair.
What are your nitrate readings as you haven't mentioned those yet.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Cichlid Man said:


> Idealy M+F pairs yes, as two males will fight if kept on their own.
> In the shop pick the biggest male and the biggest female, that way you are more likely to get a breeding pair.
> What are your nitrate readings as you haven't mentioned those yet.



I didn't know that you had to test for nitrates. My test kit came with everything but a nitrate test. So because of that I assumed that when the nitrites went to 0 you had enough nitrates and kept them in check with water changes. 

Woops

Well I guess I'll be stopping at exotic fin and feather tonight to pick one up.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

My nitrites are 2.0

Nitrates are 5.0-10, It kinda looked in between .

I believe it's day 15 since I added ammonia.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Looking good so far, keep the ammonia flowing.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Cichlid Man said:


> Looking good so far, keep the ammonia flowing.


Thanks for your help I appreciate it alot. 


One more question and I think i'll be all set up until I add fish. 

Is Cichlid Lake Salt needed at all? I was reading the label tonight and it basically says its essential for recreating cichlids natural water conditions.

The first time I went to the LFS I think I remember a guy there telling me that I didnt need it but I dont remember why. I think he said something like we use it here mostly because we need to keep the stress of the fish down... kids banging on the tanks etc. Maybe he was talking about something else. 

Right now i've been using a Start Right complete water conditioner. African Cichlid Conditioner to increase GH and Malawi Victoria Buffer for PH.


----------



## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

The main reason for "cichlid salts" is to raise PH/ hardness. You are already using another product to do that. What PH/ hardness values are you shooting for? What is your tap water?


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

My tap-water has a pH of 8 and a high GH, so I don't really need malawi salts. Though sometimes I add a little KCl2 to raise the GH.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

ron v said:


> The main reason for "cichlid salts" is to raise PH/ hardness. You are already using another product to do that. What PH/ hardness values are you shooting for? What is your tap water?


My tap water ph was low, about 6 if I remember correctly. And the water was also soft. 

When I run out of the ph and gh buffer i'll buy the salts if it does the same but just comes in one bottle.


----------



## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

Fishnoob78 check your PMs


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Fishnoob78 said:


> My tap water ph was low, about 6 if I remember correctly. And the water was also soft.
> 
> When I run out of the ph and gh buffer i'll buy the salts if it does the same but just comes in one bottle.


pH 6? and soft water? If I was you wouldn't keep tanginikans that need a pH of 8-9, I would keep others like rams, kribs, angelfish, discus. I would love to have your water chemistry. If you still want mals and tangs though, get some cruched limestone or another pH buffer as a substrate.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

Cichlid Man said:


> pH 6? and soft water? If I was you wouldn't keep tanginikans that need a pH of 8-9, I would keep others like rams, kribs, angelfish, discus. I would love to have your water chemistry. If you still want mals and tangs though, get some cruched limestone or another pH buffer as a substrate.


I'm sorry I must have been confused when I wrote that. My PH from the tap is a little over 7. I am colorblind so it can be a little difficult at times. I have to ask my neighbors half the time. Id kill for any water test that you didn't have to use colors.

I did notice that I have to frequently add the PH buffer to keep it around 8. More than what the directions say, like atleast once a week. I used sand because it was so cheap. I should have bought coral. I just recently read in another thread that chemicals, likes ph buffers, just stress out the fish. Oh well, like i said i'm learing as I go.


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

You can also get Coral for decor and use that in an african cichlid tank to buffer the PH. It's not cheap though.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

goodie said:


> Fishnoob78 check your PMs


Thanks for the link. I think ive spent 4 hours on that site so far.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

LakeMalawiXpert said:


> You can also get Coral for decor and use that in an african cichlid tank to buffer the PH. It's not cheap though.


Any idea about how many pounds would help?

46 gallon bowfront


----------



## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

The Coral decorations don't really sell by the pound but more the size and shape. I keep at least 3-4 large coral pieces in my Malawian tank.

Pieces along the lines of these...(Without the wood stand part of course).


----------



## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

> Id kill for any water test that you didn't have to use colors.


http://www.petsolutions.com/Smart+Aquarium+pH+Tester-I-12516920-I-C-14-C-.aspx

They're pricey, but its a number reading and not color.


----------



## Osiris (Jan 18, 2005)

On the topic of cichlid salt, do you need it? If it raises ph then sure, but what is your ph naturally after 24hrs from tap? If your ph is in the 7.9-8.0 range, it really is not worth the trouble of using it, it will become more of a hassle then it's worth, and honestly i never noticed a single difference in any of my tanks when i used it from when i didnt and dont anymore use it. 

NM just read back ur ph is in the 7.0 range, might be in your best interest to use Lace Rock, to not only raise but really stablize your ph levels. Not to mention it looks awesome in african tanks. I like coral displays but lace rock looks more realistic and runs cheaper usually. 

Please note, alot of ph buffer's, will cause some big diatom algae blooms in your tank, as i am pretty sure they use phosphates or something to get that ph to where it needs to be.


----------



## Fishnoob78 (Oct 30, 2005)

My PH out of the tap is about 7.0-7.2 (looked in between to myself any my friend)

The PH 24 hours later is exactly the same. I held the tubes next to each other and had help with the colors. They were identical. I had put the water in a bucket last night and it's been atleast 20 hours so far.

My PH in the tank is 7.8 and I haven't added any PH buffer for at least 5 days now. 

In the tank I have sand and 3 Feller stones. I bought them because I found one that was about 14 inches tall and 10 inches wide. It sits on the left side of the tank and is only 4 inches from the surface. It has a total of 12 holes including one in the top. The guy at the shop said it was one of the better ones he has seen as I was paying for it. I thought it would be perfect for caves so thats why I cose that type of rock. I never really liked the fake looking ones but this rock was perfect.

Would adding a few bags of crushed coral and a large piece of coral be enough to raise the PH to 8? 

This is coming down to $$ and I can't afford to spend much more. 

I really don't want to get ride of the giant feller because it's so unique but I could replace the other two, smaller feller stones.


----------



## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

You're pH is fine, go get some fish.


----------

