# DIY Vacuum



## Starlight_Guide

So with being on a college budget, I knew I needed a gravel vacuum, but I didnt have the money for it. So my boyfriend figured out how to make your own. 

We had a fairly large piece of tubing, and drilled a hole in the lid of a pop/water bottle. (We used a water bottle, that way we didnt have to worry about any residue from pop.) The hole has to be big enough for the tubing to fit in snuggly, and then we took hot glue and sealed it. 

I think if you had the stuff to repair tanks with that would be better, but we used what we had. 

_I looked through this section as much as I could to see if anyone else posted something like this. I couldnt find anything. If someone else has posted something like this, you can just delete this post. _


----------



## jones57742

Starlight_Guide:

What is your major and what is you current collegiate level.

(nothing personal but there is a method to my madness).

TR


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Elementary Education with a concentration in Psychology. This will be my 3rd year.


----------



## jones57742

Starlight_Guide said:


> Elementary Education with a concentration in Psychology. This will be my 3rd year.


TY for responding instead of getting PO'ed.

You indicated in your post that you had tubing (which I presume is air line tubing?}

If you are like me it is a long ways from your dorm window to the ground.

Forget the pop bottle. Place one end of the air line tube in the tank and suck on the other end. Stick the other end out out of te window such that the terminus is approximately 5' lower than than the water surface in the tank and you will will have a very rudimentary DIY Vac.

TR


----------



## Starlight_Guide

The tubing is bigger than air line tubing. Its got a pretty big opening. 

and no. We have apartment style dorms, and I live on the first floor, plus my tanks aren't near my window. 

I dont think I would ever suck on anything, that dirty fish water came out of, especially with poop and fish food particles.

Not to mention, I tried just using tubing before, and the substrate became lodged in the tubing. 

Tubing alone is not a sufficent enough vacuum for me. You can take my suggestion, or you can leave it. I just thought I would post it. 

As for not getting PO'ed, I still wonder why you asked.


----------



## emc7

> I dont think I would ever suck on anything, that dirty fish water came out of, especially with poop and fish food particles


If your fish water isn't clean enough to drink, you need to change more water. 

The soda bottle is a good idea. I've seen fish traps and brine shrimp hatcheries made out of them but not gravel washers.


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Oh, my fish water is clean, I do multiple water changes each week. At least 2 or 3. 

But, in the same sense, toilet water is clean, but I wouldnt drink that either.


----------



## Obsidian

I used to fight with getting my "self starting" siphon to actually "self start" (nice concept, poor reality). Now I start it via sucking the end. Very rarely have I ever gotten any in my mouth, and when I have I have not been concerned. It is an incredibly small amount and I certainly don't swallow it.


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Actually I had that problem too, but I figured out that if you fill up the vaccuum part with tank water, lift it up out of the water enough to start it going down the tube, and then stick it back in, it keeps it going. 

As for if you have just plain tubing, stick all of it in the water, make sure it fills up and there isnt many air holes, hold one end towards the bottom of the tank, put your thumb over the other end (the end that goes in the bucket, put it in the bucket and let go.


----------



## Obsidian

Did that too, takes twice the time of sticking it in, sucking and dumping. It's quick and efficient. No muss no fuss.


----------



## emc7

> As for if you have just plain tubing, stick all of it in the water, make sure it fills up and there isnt many air holes, hold one end towards the bottom of the tank, put your thumb over the other end (the end that goes in the bucket, put it in the bucket and let go.


This work too. But after a few mouthfuls you get the hang of it and stop drinking it. Lately, I stole 1/2 a quick change valve from a canister filter. I can close the valve, move it to the next tank and open it without losing siphon. You can start it by putting the whole tube in and closing the valve, but I just suck it, its faster and I don't get drenched. Not that you should, thats just what I do.

It is possible to get a few diseases from fish, but I'd much rather drink fish water than share a water glass with a human.


----------



## Ricker

> It is possible to get a few diseases from fish, but I'd much rather drink fish water than share a water glass with a human


LOl I am not sure but I don't know I might want to drink like some one I knows water then fish water all day. All I know is I do it the old fashion way. suck put it in trash can drag trash can to bathroom dump in toilet and flush lol. I want to get one of them pythons I think they are called but to much money for me when I can just do what I am doing right now.


----------



## emc7

Ricker, I guess you never got a burning sore throat and laryngitis from a sibling stealing a sip of your drink.


----------



## Jgray152

jones57742 said:


> TY for responding instead of getting PO'ed.
> 
> You indicated in your post that you had tubing (which I presume is air line tubing?}
> 
> If you are like me it is a long ways from your dorm window to the ground.
> 
> Forget the pop bottle. Place one end of the air line tube in the tank and suck on the other end. Stick the other end out out of te window such that the terminus is approximately 5' lower than than the water surface in the tank and you will will have a very rudimentary DIY Vac.
> 
> TR


The pop bottle is a good idea since it won't pick up the gravel and only the crud in it. BTW, thanks for adding another word to my dictionary "terminus". hehe. That must mean the "end" or "termination point or something"



> It is an incredibly small amount and I certainly don't swallow it.


It helps boost your immune system 



> LOl I am not sure but I don't know I might want to drink like some one I knows water then fish water all day. All I know is I do it the old fashion way. suck put it in trash can drag trash can to bathroom dump in toilet and flush lol. I want to get one of them pythons I think they are called but to much money for me when I can just do what I am doing right now.


what if you ran a UV light on your tank  Would you drink it now? It would have less germs than someone elses drinking glass. 

I see this thread is heading in another direction..


----------



## jones57742

emc7 said:


> If your fish water isn't clean enough to drink, you need to change more water.


Quadruple ditto except than maintaining pristine water, however you do it, is, IMHO, critical to successful long term fish keeping.
Getting back to basics, as in physics, if you are not willing to suck on the tube your water is not appropriate for your fish.



Starlight_Guide said:


> Oh, my fish water is clean, I do multiple water changes each week. At least 2 or 3.
> But, in the same sense, toilet water is clean, but I wouldnt drink that either.


SG: You are somehow missing the context of emc's comments. Please refer to the last sentence in the first quote herein.


Folks: I just flat do not believe that a soda pop bottle will work here (regardless of the size).



Starlight_Guide said:


> The tubing is bigger than air line tubing. Its got a pretty big opening.
> Not to mention, I tried just using tubing before, and the substrate became lodged in the tubing.


SG: these assertions are in diametric opposition.
Can you measure the diameter of your tubing? (I anticipate that it is 9mm ~= to 3/8").
What is your estimation of the diameter of your substrate (I anticipate that it is typically 1/2")



Starlight_Guide said:


> and no. We have apartment style dorms, and I live on the first floor, plus my tanks aren't near my window.


But the elevation of your yard is like 10' lower than the water surface in your tank?

Before I can be of any more help I need to know 
the distance from your tank to the nearest window;
the distance from your tank to the nearest faucet (I am trying to get you out of the bucket business here); and
as you came up with the tubing from "somewhere" I presume that you can come with more.

SG: I am angeling to something here but need the information set forth above. Based upon your input I may have additional questions.



Jgray152 said:


> The pop bottle is a good idea since it won't pick up the gravel and only the crud in it. BTW


Jg: please excuse me here but I would not have said this one.
You do not know the inflow orifice area of the soda pop bottle and hence not only this item but we do not the static head which SG is dealing with.



Jgray152 said:


> ... thanks for adding another word to my dictionary "terminus". hehe. That must mean the "end" or "termination point or something"


jg: I am nowhere close to my definition of a scholar. Where have you been the last 24 years?
Also please google for the words with which you are unfamiliar and add them to your vocabulary. The conception of a topic and the preparation of a white paper concerning the topic is plenty difficult and would just be unmerciful in the absence an acceptable vocabulary.


SG: please excuse the bantering between Jg and I as we are only trying to help out here!

TR


----------



## pokefan

Here's my idea on this topic, This is the DIY section she simply her idea of a DIY vacuum there's no reason to bash her for not wanting to suck the water out of the fish tank whether or not it's clean enough to do is beside the point. She doesn't want to do it therefore there's no reason to bash her fish keeping skills for it!

SG, Sounds like a good idea I'm glad you've found an alternative that suits your needs. Thanks for sharing to those of us that care!


----------



## Jgray152

> Jg: please excuse me here but I would not have said this one.
> You do not know the inflow orifice area of the soda pop bottle and hence not only this item but we do not the static head which SG is dealing with.


To set science aside for a moment, as long as the tubing they are using fits either in or around the top of the pop bottle then it should work fine as long as the pop bottle is submerged 100% (try getting it to start when its 50% out of the water...) and there is enough flow through the tubing. This can really only be determined by observation. By her observation, it works good for her.

Most tank's water levels are about 4 feet from the floor so there is no problem there when using a bucket. 



> Folks: I just flat do not believe that a soda pop bottle will work here (regardless of the size).


It will. It obveously does for SG. Cutting the bottom off and using the top for the hose to be inserted into. It will work just fine. Have you seen gravel cleaner off the shelf? Notice there are taller and shorter ones? Thats not only for handeling purposes. Try using a 24" gravel cleaner in a 10 gallon tank and let me know how it was to start up and how it flowed. I bet it wouldn't flow at all.



> I am nowhere close to my definition of a scholar. Where have you been the last 24 years?


I paid little attention while I was in school and with my A.D.D. its gets pretty damn difficult to learn much of anything when reading or being told something which is why on hands experience is the best. I have to read a paragraph multiple times to fully comprehend it at times.



> Also please google for the words with which you are unfamiliar and add them to your vocabulary. The conception of a topic and the preparation of a white paper concerning the topic is plenty difficult and would just be unmerciful in the absence an acceptable vocabulary.


Need to start using words and phrases that are easier to comprehend. :chair: haha

You know im just giving you a hard time Ron.


----------



## emc7

Sorry for the thread hijack. I do like the bottle idea. Of course it would work. A bottle with the bottom cut off has a wide bottom and a narrow neck, just like the gravel washers you buy. Don't suck if you don't want to. The fish won't care.


----------



## Jgray152

To start it without sucking you could submerge the hose starting with the end that connects to the pop bottle. Then put your finger over the end and lift it out and put it in a buck or out the window. Should instantly start.


----------



## Obsidian

jones57742 said:


> Before I can be of any more help I need to know
> the distance from your tank to the nearest window;
> the distance from your tank to the nearest faucet (I am trying to get you out of the bucket business here); and
> as you came up with the tubing from "somewhere" I presume that you can come with more.


Thank you jones, I now have a picture of her having tubing all through the house to a window (if you do end up doing this please take a picture, it would be great!). I am not sure I would agree this is necessarily "easier" than just using a bucket. I do agree the concept is solid. 

I also don't see any reason why the soda bottle would not work. It is no different than most gravel vacs where the basic concept is : Big cylinder connects to small cylinder that is really long, add suction/vacuum (regardless of how it is created  ) and a place for all the water to go and walla: End product. 

You get points for creativity  Have you used this product and does it, in fact, work?

pokefan: I just would like it to be known that I was not attempting to "bash" anyones fish keeping. I was pointing out that, to me, it is not any big deal to suck start a siphon. If done well no water would get in your mouth at all and that if it did I would not be concerned. I am certainly NOT saying that she has to do this by any means. I know there are many others who would stand next to her going "OMG you want me to do WHAT?" I bet there are things she is willing to do that I am not


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Wow..... Um....

Yes. I have infact used this, multiple times and it works very well in my opinion.

The tubing I had, I found in my dads fish stuff when he died, so I have no idea where I could get anymore, I would assume though you could get it at any hardware store that sells tubing. 

The inside diameter of the tubing is 1/2 an inch, and the gravel I was using before I upgraded to river rock was the little tiny stuff you get at wal-marts fish section. So it was constantly getting sucked up. When I upgraded to river rock it would just get lodged at the end of the tubing, so I realized I needed something other than just tubing. 

As for where my tanks are located as compared to a window, they are no where near one. The closest one is across the room at least 8 feet or so, and the tubing I have is approximately only 3 feet long. Long enough to go from the tank to a buck. The way I dispose of my water is not at question here. Nor is the conditions of my tanks and preference as to how I start the siphoning process. I simply wanted to share this idea with everyone, because it worked for me. 

Take it or leave it. I dont care. If you are skeptic, please try it out yourself before you bash it. I just know I am not the only college student in this world who has fish and barely enough money to pay his or her bills and still have money to eat let alone buy a ton of stuff for their fish. I was just trying to be nice.


----------



## jones57742

Obs: You are keeping me on my toes (which I really appreciate)!!!



Obsidian said:


> Thank you jones, I now have a picture of her having tubing all through the house to a window (if you do end up doing this please take a picture, it would be great!). I am not sure I would agree this is necessarily "easier" than just using a bucket. I do agree the concept is solid.


Affixing one end of tube in a tank, laying out many feet of tubing and sucking on the discharge end is nothing compared to hauling buckets of water.

The problem lies in the tubing size (=> expense). An example is that approximately 15' of air line tubing siphoning with 3' of head will only produce a very small trickle discharge.




Obsidian said:


> I also don't see any reason why the soda bottle would not work. It is no different than most gravel vacs where the basic concept is : Big cylinder connects to small cylinder that is really long, add suction/vacuum (regardless of how it is created  ) and a place for all the water to go and walla: End product.


Ah ha!

The velocity is quadratically proportional to the size of the tubing. An example is that a velocity in a 2" dia. tube connected to a 1/2" dis. tube is 1/16 of the velocity in the 1/2" tube (also energy losses at the connection should be factored in).

Ah ha! (again)

From her(?) posts I believe that she only has potential energy available. An example would be 5' from her water surface to the yard outside her dorm room window.

TR


----------



## jones57742

SG:

Please excuse me: no bashing intended! I am afraid to comment on your 1st five paragraphs as I do not want to hurt your feeling any more.

TR

BTW: I have been there: Room 155A Moore-Hill hall (but at least it had A/C).

Working for TxDot during the summers with plenty overtime and grading papers during the school year. Subsequent to paper grading being an undergrad TA with all the problems that come therewith.

ie. you are no cherry with respect to wondering exactly how I was going to keep groceries stuffed in my face after purchasing text books!


----------



## Obsidian

jones: of course you had to bring physics into this! It is only because you suggest she span her whole household to get tubing out of a window that velocity is really at play. Bucket next to tank, lower than water level will pretty much always allow enough suction/velocity to clean the gravel efficiently. 

SG don't mind jones and I, we are merely bored and have a need to make things much more complicated than they really are (or at least to define the complexities that already exist).


----------



## jones57742

Obsidian said:


> jones: of course you had to bring physics into this! It is only because you suggest she span her whole household to get tubing out of a window that velocity is really at play. Bucket next to tank, lower than water level will pretty much always allow enough suction/velocity to clean the gravel efficiently.


Hopefully the understanding (or at least partial) of nature does not offend anyone!




Obsidian said:


> SG don't mind jones and I, we are merely bored and have a need to make things much more complicated than they really are (or at least to define the complexities that already exist).


Sg: Having said that Obs and I have spent a ton of time relating our experience and/or education in an attempt to assist.

TR

BTW Obs: When it really warms up in West Texas and I vacuum the bottom of my tank again I will try to remember to take photographs of approximately 40' of Python tubing extending from my tank to the discharge terminus of an approximately 40' garden hose.


----------



## Jgray152

> The problem lies in the tubing size (=> expense). An example is that approximately 15' of air line tubing siphoning with 3' of head will only produce a very small trickle discharge.


Its not air line tubing as she stated its 1/2 ID which is about the size for most gravel cleaners.



> Ah ha!
> 
> The velocity is quadratically proportional to the size of the tubing. An example is that a velocity in a 2" dia. tube connected to a 1/2" dis. tube is 1/16 of the velocity in the 1/2" tube (also energy losses at the connection should be factored in).
> 
> Ah ha! (again)
> 
> From her(?) posts I believe that she only has potential energy available. An example would be 5' from her water surface to the yard outside her dorm room window.


Jones, please don't take this as disrespect as I have no intention, but you need to calm down with the physics. SG probubly has no idea about what you are talking about. She knows how to make it flow and probubly why it flows. Yes velocity is drasticaly reduced in the pop bottle which is *why she uses it* so that she doesn't suck up gravel and only light junk that is caught up in the low velocity flow. There is no need to figure out the best optimum setup for tubing and cylinder size. IF it works for you it works for you. No need to factor in pressure losses from connection points either.

Yikes....


----------



## jones57742

Jgray152 said:


> Yikes....


quadratic (kw-drtk)
Relating to a mathematical expression containing a term of the second degree, such as x2 + 2. A quadratic equation is an equation having the general form ax2 + bx + c = 0, where a, b, and c are constants. The quadratic formula is x = -b (b2 - 4ac)/2a. It is used in algebra to calculate the roots of quadratic equations.

Jg (and I am addressing this to Obs also): anyone who has made a decent enough score on the SAT or ACT in order to be accepted will understand the above definition.

I will not get into the general polynomial equation which is very simplistic unless someone believes that it is hard as I do not feel like the hammering right now.

TR


----------



## Ricker

OK you dont want to suck the water here you go I think this is real smart. But really the only bad thing is then you have to take water out your self. Hope you enjoy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QkgkNbWesGg&feature=related


----------



## Guest

Use a window...I feel so stupid. I've been using buckets, when my ten and 40 gallon are within 10 feet of a window on the second story...and I"ve been carrying 5 gallon buckets...lol


----------



## Obsidian

LOL fbg... I have a window directly behind my 100 ga, however I sincerely doubt my neighbors would appreciate my flooding the sidewalk underneath it. It's all good though, I have a python


----------



## jones57742

fishbguy said:


> Use a window...I feel so stupid. I've been using buckets, when my ten and 40 gallon are within 10 feet of a window on the second story...and I"ve been carrying 5 gallon buckets...lol


fbg: are you serious here or just making fun of Ron as most other folks on the Forum do?

TR


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Ricker, that YouTube video is really awesome! 

..and yeah. I dont understand the physics stuff, or the mathematical stuff. Thats my boyfriends area of expertise. Im just the creative one, and if it works it works, if it doesnt start over! Maybe thats why I felt like you were bashing the idea, BECAUSE I didnt understand what you were saying. To be honest, I still dont, Haha!* All I know is it works. It might not be the best thing out there, but it works.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Ricker

> Ricker, that YouTube video is really awesome!
> 
> ..and yeah. I dont understand the physics stuff, or the mathematical stuff. Thats my boyfriends area of expertise. Im just the creative one, and if it works it works, if it doesnt start over! Maybe thats why I felt like you were bashing the idea, BECAUSE I didnt understand what you were saying. To be honest, I still dont, Haha!* All I know is it works. It might not be the best thing out there, but it works.
> 
> Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Hey np nope I never bash some one else idea as it has happen to me I know how it feels. As far as misunderstanding NP either. Believe me I have alot of that I am ADHD and then have a reading disability. So np ya I hope you like it. I came across it while I was looking at planted tanks and though of this post. Also it will be great because you live in a dorm/apartment? So I thought it was really creative way to clean tank.


----------



## Obsidian

SG: No worries on any misunderstandings. I was certainly not intending to bash you. One thing you can expect on the forum is that folks will talk about your posts, such as what you have witnessed here. 

Sometimes people do "bash" others. It is usually best to ignore the actual bashing as it tends to just feed into it and rarely has anything to do with the original poster. When you ignore it and they keep going they just end up looking like fools. That makes it a win win 

However, most of the time the chatter is just that: chatter about how this may or may not work in various situations or if there is an easier way etc. This is the stuff that industry was made on! It is fun to watch it in process. 

And really no worries about the math at all. While there was once a day when I understood math quite well, that day has passed and my memory of equations has eroded. Thankfully I retain the basic knowledge of "how things work" without the equations to "back it up." I have considered going back to school for more math so I can renew that part of my brain, but my schedule will not allow it  (Yes I am truly a nerd and would go to school for no other reason than that which I just mentioned).


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Obsidian, there is nothing wrong with wanting to further your knowledge. My dad always used to say, ya learn something new every day, and if you dont, then your doing something wrong.


----------



## Obsidian

That is very true. I do wish I were independently wealthy so I could be a professional student and just collect degrees. jones keeps claiming to have poor memory and I have tried to take advantage of this, so far to no avail


----------



## Starlight_Guide

Collecting degrees would be awesome. I hate to think of trying to find a job after graduation, and being in "the real world". So if I could stay in school forever... I wouldnt have to worry about that! Hahaha!*


----------

