# A Cichlid Guy Gets Salty.....



## Reefneck

No lectures please. 

I have set up a 25G tank that is going to be salt water. Running a SeaLife Systems Wet/Dry and SeaLife Systems Protein Skimmer.

The tank gets great circulation from the RIO 2100 pump in the sump and after adding Salt & Water last night it is completely clear and dissolved.

Will I need more circulation from Powerheads in this tank to keep a few small inverts and 4-5 fish?

Going to have 2-3 Damsels put in Saturday after I am sure Salinity is accurate to begin the cycle but after the cycle I will be swapping out the Damsels for some Clowns & Maybe a small tang or so. This tank is for my wife to enjoy and me to maintain.

Any suggestions on the tank setup? Planning to use crushed Coral as a Substrate.


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## Fishfirst

okay sounds like a fairly good plan, with a fish only system you could get by with a wet dry filter, BUT I would just look into not using one because of the nitrates it will produce (in saltwater you don't want nitrates). Also, you have enough flow for inverts and fish, just not corals (at least moderate to high flow corals). I would also consider fishless cycling with either liverock or livesand or with pure ammonia or a combo of the two. Clowns are nice additions, but I would not put a tang in there... tangs are fast swimmers and need at least a 6' tank (even when young). I would reconsider the tang and get a wrasse instead, or gobies, cardinals, and grammas.


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## TheOldSalt

I agree. 
Tangs are a bit problematic for a variety of reasons, and a royal pain sometimes even in a big tank.
There are many more much smaller but much more colorful fish to choose from which will do better in a 25 gallon tank withut the hassles tangs often present.

One single Rio2100 might provide enough circulation, especially in conjunction with a trickle filter & a skimmer.

The best advice I can give you is to look high & low for a product called "BioSpira" by Marineland. It's a refrigerated product, a mix of the CORRECT live bacteria needed, and in enough quantity, to make your tank cycled & safe for fish in just a couple of days. There are many bateria starter products on the market, but most of them are crap. Seachem's "Stability" is the next best thing, and it's cheaper & a lot easier to find.

If you use either of these, you can avoid having to use damselfish to cycle the tank, which saves you time & hassle aplenty.

The crushed coral substrate will work okay. It might help to put some in the sump where the faster water flow over it will let it be more effective as a pH buffer & calcium supply.

The use of a quarantine tank will save you a ton of headache, but a UV sterilizer can work almost as well. Without either one, you'll find that saltwater fish diseases are a real problem.


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## Reefneck

Thanks guys.....From the responses so far I have decided against a Tang.

**UPDATE** Tank is currently housing 4 Damsels as of this afternoon. Took me a couple of days to get the Salinity right and let everything circulate well. The "Cycle" Begins.

Still planning to go with Percula Clowns (Probably 2) and an Anenome for each. Other small fish to add are still up in the air. Want alot of color for the wife (and the 2 y/o) to see and enjoy.

Any further Advice/Suggestions are appreciated.

Keri


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## TheOldSalt

Oh.
You said inverts, but you didn't say anemones.
Amemones are right OUT.
No new tank can support them, and frankly, established tanks don't often do such a great job it it, either. 
Even if anemones could live in your tank, you'd only need one, not two, as the clownfish would share one. By the way, clownfish absolutely DON'T need anemones except in the wild. Since anemones grow very slowly and reproduce even slower, they are being wiped out on the reefs by hobbyists who have no real business trying to keep them. this results in massive habitat destruction for clownfish, which are likewise being rubbed out as a result.
Anemones---> don't. There's no reason to bother, and plenty of reasons NOT to.


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## Osiris

A coral such as Green starburst polyps a clownfish will host, i have 2 clownfish in the 10g nano and a gsp coral that's 12" long and 6" wide, that they will host during the day.


That'd be best option, route to go.


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## Reefneck

So no anemones?  Had not thought of it the way you put it about the reefs. Was thinking more that if I don't buy them someone else will and the same results would occur.

I was not considering adding them or the clowns until the tank cycle is complete and the tank is fully established. I didn't want them thinking the Clowns "Needed" them but more for the enjoyment of watching the clowns play in them.

I had not considered a live Coral but I will now instead. Any other fish suggestions? Am starting to look at small angels but not sure. As I said, I want lots of color and something the wife can enjoy watching, Not just a tank where all the fish hide. 

Thanks again.


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## Reefneck

**UPDATE**

Measured the Ammonia level after 20 hours with the 4 damesl's and paniced! It was between 1.5 & 2.0! 

Went to the lfs and bought Bio Spira! Now to give it some time and see how the cycle is coming by tomorrow. 

Considered some live sand they had at the lfs but at $2.00 per pound I wasn't quite ready to sell my firstborn yet.


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## TheOldSalt

That's good. If you had added the live sand now with the ammonia already high it wouldn't have stayed live for very long.
The BioSpira will fix things fast. damsels are tough little boogers, though, and they should be able to handle 3.0 with minimal damage for a little while.
Corals are, as odd as it sounds, a lot easier to keep alive than anemones. You won't regret making the switch in your plans.


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## Reefneck

**UPDATE**

The Bio Spira did nothing. Ammonia still at 2-3 PPM after 3 days. The lfs gave me a second dose of Bio Spira free since the first one failed. Waiting for results. Will know by Thursday/Friday how this one works.

Lost one Damsel due to the high Ammonia already. Other 3 still seem fine. Water is almost crystal clear now so I hope it works this time.

Keri


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## TheOldSalt

Hmmm... how very odd. It's possible that you got a bad batch, since the stuff has to remain refridgerated until use.


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## wildtiger

May I make a suggestion on the anemones? There are companies out there that make synthic ones, and they are stunning. They are kinda expensive, but what involved in salt water tanks isn't? Besides, you get to revel in the fact that you have a beautiful anemone in your tank that will last forever.

http://www.aquariumbeauty.com/display_catalog.jsp?Category_ID=MPL-005&Page_ID=1 

http://www.aquariumsystems.com/decor.htm#Anemones 

These are just a couple and I didn't do alot of looking around, but I know there are lots of companies out there that make them. 

Just a thought.


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## Guest

you did the link thing backwards. lol. you put the URL in the description part and the description as the url. lol
if ya wanna look, copy and paste it into your browser.


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## Osiris

I've had that happen last time i tried using biospira in SW tank, i ended up doin it the old fashioned way. Lucky they gave u a free one!


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## wildtiger

Ok, so I'm a dork...lol

http://www.aquariumbeauty.com/display_catalog.jsp?Category_ID=MPL-005&Page_ID=1 

http://www.aquariumsystems.com/decor.htm#Anemones

These should be clickable links.


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## Reefneck

MalawianPro said:


> I've had that happen last time i tried using biospira in SW tank, i ended up doin it the old fashioned way. Lucky they gave u a free one!


Yea, The lfs I deal with seems to be a good one. Hopefully I can add fish by the weekend. Going to keep checking stats daily until then.


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## TheOldSalt

I've been rethinking this issue a bit, and it occurs to me that my blanket statement about corals being easier to keep than anemones is only _mostly_ true, but not absolutely true.
There is one anemone, the Bulb-tippped, _Entacmaea quadricolor_, that can be a suitable choice for a fully cycled aquarium. ( operative words being fully cycled )

Bulb-tips, not to be confused with bubbletips or club tips, can be kept without too much more hassle than a proper environment & lighting. They are frequently captive-rasised, and they reproduce in aquaria fairly easily under perfect conditions.

While still far from easy, as anemones go, the Bulb-tip is the easiest anemone to keep that clownfish will use. ( Aiptasias are THE easiest, but are useless pests )
If you just HAVE to have an anemone, that's the one to get. Don't let the goober at the petshop talk you into anything else he might have if he has no Entacmaeas handy; he's just trying to unload them before they die.

While I certainly try to discourage anemone keeping whenever possible, I suppose I can live with myself if I recommend this particular species. Of course, you'll still have all the other usual anemone problems like slime & odor, but there's nothing to be done for those.


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## Reefneck

As we approach a month with the 29G SW tank.......

Today we stand with the sole survivor of the "Cycle". A Lone Blue Damsel that made it while the other 3 friends perished. We seem to be in the final days of this horriffic cycle.

2 packages of Bio-Spira Marine Failed! Some cheap crap the LSWFS sold me failed. Finally the ammonia was gone and the niTRITes skyrocketed over a week ago. No change until yesterday I bought some Live Sand and put 20LBs on top of the crushed coral that was already on the bottom and BAM, Cycle shows complete!! :fun: 

Too bad I have severe head Trauma from my accident, Can't work, Am worried about the family and bills & can't afford to stock it with anything.

Even if I had any funds I can't even go to the LSWFS and get anything due to my injuries.  

But thanks for all the help making it this far. I hope it has not been a wasted effort and that something comes along to help me put something in it.

Anybody got any LiveRock they want to give away? :help: J/K.

Keri :fish:


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## Fishfirst

I would in your case get a small amount of liverock, then quite a bit of baserock by reefrocks.com, that way you don't spend $6 per pound on liverock and only a $1 per pound on baserock... you'll get a chance to seed the baserock with stuff from the liverock while you keep your tank dormant for a while and not stock it.


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## Reefneck

Picking up Live Rock today along with some Base Rock.

Picked up a beautiful, Male Mandarinfish yesterday and he is doing great so far. Have to get the Live Rock in there for him to feed from.

Also bought a 55G tank, Stand and Wet/Dry for $100. Have yet to get it in the house. Too darn cold outside. It got near freezing last night and this is SUPPOSED to be Florida.

Thinking of making the 40G Long and the 55G Salty and convert the 29G to Cichlids for my 6 lemon labs and lone Syn. Ocellifer. 

What do you guys think?


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## TheOldSalt

I think you're going to have some problems with that mandarinfish.
FIRST the rock, then the maturation of the 'pods population, THEN the Mandarin.
Well, maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.

As for changing your other tanks, I guess I don't really have any opinion on that. Sounds like fun, I suppose.


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## Reefneck

I understand what you mean about the Mandarinfish.

I am getting Mature LR from an established tank and not from a supplier or LFS though so the LR is mature already. Also have Live Copepods to feed the Mandarinfish.


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## Osiris

I've kept a Mandarinfish in the past, had it for around 8 months before i sold it to fellow reefer in the trade. I was very lucky in aqcuiring one that took frozen foods! I'd have them try to feed it before you buy it, it'll wipe them pods out pretty quick.


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## Fishfirst

Mandarins decimate pod populations very very fast... you are going to need to probably have place for them to go and breed such as a fuge or a sump filled with liverock. My guess is he'll have the current pods gone from your liverock you put in soon in a few weeks... it takes months for a good sustainable pod population to become high enough to keep going after mandarins get through to them.


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## Reefneck

I plan to supplement with Live Copepods in a jar from my LFS for a while. Luckily, He also eats frozen Brine Shrimp. 

Added the first 5 pounds of LR today. Have 28 Pounds of Base Rock rinsing and will add more live rock soon. Also added 2 nice live Corals, 5 snails to clean up and an absolutely beautiful Anenomefish (Clown) but not a Percula. Will try to get some pics in the next few days.


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## Fishfirst

cool cool... have fun and good luck!


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## AQUAMARINE

The famous "Reefneek" was once a bigginer. But, you were going to put a tang in a 25 gallon and an anemone. Tank overload. Anyhow i would like to know how this tank got on.


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## Reefneck

AQUAMARINE said:


> The famous "Reefneek" was once a bigginer. But, you were going to put a tang in a 25 gallon and an anemone. Tank overload. Anyhow i would like to know how this tank got on.


Yes, I was once a beginner! And I can even spell it 

This was not my first venture into SW here....Only a return to what I prefer. Africans were a lot of fun but had to go back to the best. This was my first endeavor into Reef's however and things have gone perfectly. The "Tang" never came to be but can be done for a short period with a tiny yellow tang. 

As for how the tank did......It did great, Grew up. Moved into a 55g, Then to a 75G. Started a new Reef every time it grew in the old tank. The original is now sitting empty as my Quaranteen tank while I setup a 3rd 75G reef tank!

Any more questions?

Keri


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## Fishnewb1

About those mandarin fish...
I was thinking about getting one. 
I have a fuge thats loaded with copeopods. 
its underneath my tank and the water has to go through the pump to get to the main tank. Do you think that the pods would be dead after that?

which kind is more hardy? psycadelic or regular??


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## AQUAMARINE

sorry, beginner, Your name is Keri, your a girl?


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## Damon

AQUAMARINE said:


> sorry, beginner, Your name is Keri, your a girl?


No. Just a unique name.


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## Reefneck

Fishnewb1 said:


> About those mandarin fish...
> I was thinking about getting one.
> I have a fuge thats loaded with copeopods.
> its underneath my tank and the water has to go through the pump to get to the main tank. Do you think that the pods would be dead after that?
> 
> which kind is more hardy? psycadelic or regular??


Some pods would/will get chopped up and become food for other fish/inverts. Some would/will make it alive.

I like my spotted but I don't consider either one "Hardy". Both are about equal.


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## Reefneck

AQUAMARINE said:


> sorry, beginner, Your name is Keri, your a girl?



Let me check..........:shock: OMG, What are.....Oh wait......NM, I know...... (Blush)......I'm a 45 year Old Man dying of Cancer.


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## Reefneck

AQUAMARINE said:


> sorry, beginner, Your name is Keri, your a girl?


I just noticed the title of this thread is "A Cichlid Guy Get's Salty"


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## AQUAMARINE

Well Keri is a girls name here, i say guys to my girlfriends, both my nans died of lung cancer in the same year.


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## Reefneck

AQUAMARINE said:


> Well Keri is a girls name here, i say guys to my girlfriends, both my nans died of lung cancer in the same year.


Well here in the U.S.A. we have this thing we like to call "Freedom"! We can name our Son(s) "SUE" and our daughter(s)TOMMY if we so choose too,


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## CollegeReefer

I always thought it would be fun to name I my kid (if I every have one) one name and have it pronounced another. So lets say I name my kid Tom but it is pronounced Bob. Can you imagine if Tom was at the first day of class and the teacher calls out Tom. Tom would have to tell the teacher it was pronounced Bob. LOL Actually that might be pretty cruel.


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## AQUAMARINE

we can call our them what we want, i know a boy called Rachel and a girl called tommy lee


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## harif87

Reefneck said:


> Well here in the U.S.A. we have this thing we like to call "Freedom"! We can name our Son(s) "SUE" and our daughter(s)TOMMY if we so choose too,


HAHAHA! If i had a son named Sue i would make sure he would be a big ladies man........ Or i would have to find him a girlfriend named Tommy :lol:


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