# Politics and such......



## mrmoby (Jan 18, 2005)

I see the political thread that started here was quickly shut down. The loss of the thread doesn't bother me, as I choose not to participate in it, but why is everyone so afraid of political discussion?

I mean, in this section it is fair game. If you are "offended" , or think you will be, then don't read or participate in it. It seems as if there are some that are so worried about being "offended" or offending they don't want to say anything. It is sad, and actually frightening in a way, that people want others to be quiet and not say or discuss there views or beliefs. One of the great freedoms of this country is the ability to say what you feel.

If someone comes along, and politicizes your thread about Snapping turtles, then yes, its a problem, but if some want to discuss politics, religion, or whatever, in a seperate thread they should be free to, as I don't see where it is against the rules. God knows there are enough silly threads going on, as well as some that have just turned into idle nonsense. 

In my opinion, it is simple. If you don't like it, don't read it, just like if you don't care for whats on the tv or radio, you can turn it off. 

o.k...that is my 2 cents, or perhaps a little more........


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

I know, but for me as an example, I hate politcal stuff. But once I see a thread about it (at least the one for Vietnamese politics), curiosity will bring me in and I'll just stick to it as long as it is closed. It's still annoyed for me to join in a thread about politics though I am not forced to. It's also annoyed to those who don't participate but recognize that the thread is usually pulled up over other threads. 
So... avoid talking about politics in FishForums.com as much as you can  I am not afraid of them, but believe me... they're a really big nuisance.


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## mrmoby (Jan 18, 2005)

Max, there are things that get posted here that annoy me too, but I keep that to myself, as I , like everone else here is part of a community, and sometimes in a community, things are discussed which one finds distasteful.
Foir example, I am not a religious guy, and in fact, I find the message coming from most churches distasteful, does that mean all the churches should be closed, because I don't like them. I kow what I hear inside will make me angry, therefore, I stay away. It is as simple as that.

We all here share a common interest in fish. It is nice to be able to discuss other things with people whose views may differ, both from this country, and those around the world. The people of this board are great people who do a good job of keeping themselves in line, and I don't think every political conversation should, or needs to be stifled, particularly where this is an open forum area.

ok.....that's abouyt 10 cents for me now............


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

What if we had a sub-forum in the watering hole that was just for politics?

That way people that aren't offended by political discussions could have those discussions without cluttering up the main non-fish forum. We're a community here, and what makes us a community is our love of aquaria... Part of the fun of finding other people with like interests is getting to know their other interests and views.

-Flynn


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## flynngriff (Jan 19, 2005)

The same could be said for any thread on this board. Any thread can turn bad, but that's what mods are for... If it gets out of hand, the moderators can remove the thread or posts that get offensive. By having these discussions in their own forum, those that didn't want to participate in or even see them, they don't have to look at that particular forum. We wouldn't even have to call it the "politics forum", it could just be a place for controversial issues so people wouldn't have to clutter up the watering hole with them.


-Flynn


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

There doesnt need to be a sub forum for politics, or "controversial issues" of any type. thats what "off topic" is for. politics is fair game in this section. Sorry for bringing it into many... many threads. but the one that was closed started political.

offended by politics? by all means, speak your mind. thats pretty much the whole point...

edit: I can see how many may be annoyed by political threads of another country.


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## mrmoby (Jan 18, 2005)

you know, a thread "gone awry" is not the end of the world. Let's not loose sight of the fact, that as much as we may enjoy coming here, it is only a message board. I really don't see the need for a seperate sub section for politics, but if that makes the majority happy, then so be it.


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

Other mods don't think that opening a subforum is a good idea... 


> but the one that was closed started politically


Indeed, it did 



> Max, there are things that get posted here that annoy me too, but I keep that to myself, as I , like everone else here is part of a community, and sometimes in a community, things are discussed which one finds distasteful.


That... I know, we're part of a community so there should be something we like, something we hate. Things that this one like may become anoyying to others. Political issues are so infigurative that each person may have his own point(s) of view that conflicts, arguements are usually seen... People're really concern about what they believe... So I think we should avoid political issue as much as we can. It's ok to open a discuss alright... but make sure that you don't get overact or something. It's ok to share about if we should or should not keep a betta in a small jar, but it's no good to discuss about a party or a president's action... there're many other boards for that


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## Mr Aquarium (Jan 18, 2005)

Lets see a none strong disagreement....

How about, anyone try to not criticize that Bush needs to wipe that crappy grin off his face when he talks about Death, I believe he grinned all through one speach about the troops that have died over in the sand,
And people saying Clintons little fling was bad for his character?


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

> Political issues are so infigurative that each person may have his own point(s) of view that conflicts, arguements are usually seen... People're really concern about what they believe... So I think we should avoid political issue as much as we can.


thats the whole point. to express your views.

I doubt anyone here is immature enough to take things so personally that they hold grudges over onto other threads. no matter how touchy of a subject.


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

> I know what I hear inside will make me angry, therefore, I stay away. It is as simple as that.


This is exactly why we need to avoid those types of talks. We will never grow as a group if we are offending new people and sending them away because they wonder into a thread they dont agree with. This is also set up as a family friendly forum. Politics only invite arguments. Arguments lead to offended people that leave and dont come back. Those of us here understand and can "put up" with each others rants but newcomers dont want it. I have left several forums because they became fight centers instead of help centers. 

Nonsense babble is one thing but potshots are another. If Clinton or Bush show up here then its a free for all. But if they are not here to defend themselves leave them out.


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

I can gladly leave them out til election time...


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

IMO if you want to talk politics go find a forum for that. Instead of here. People are entitled to their own opinion yes, but theres no need to make political talk here. Thats why FishForums is so great and different from other boards...we stay away from that stuff :-D It helps avoid arguements and disagreements between members. I am not afraid of political discussion. See me in person i'll tell you about my political point of view. Just not at FishForums


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

Well, that's why I offered my old forum in another thread. You can say about anything you want in there as long as you're not threatening another member. If anyone would like the address, PM me. I don't think a family forum dedicated to fish is a particularly good venue to discuss politics. I think a lot of us come here to get away from that.


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Dont be afraid of a little conflict, we shouldnt be avoiding conflict. conflict itself isnt bad. its how people handle themselves in one. just because some people cant manage themselves doesnt mean we cant have an intellectual debate.

If you are offended that someone said something bad about your political party, then either be ignorant and pout in the corner, or maybe learn something and speak up and voice your opinion. thats the whole point.


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

Well I have nothing against conflict, I'm a law student afterall. My concern is whether or not political discussion has any place in this forum. Ultimately, it's up to Shaggy and the moderators to allow or dissallow it. 

From my point of view, to fully discuss some of the political issues that could be brought up would result in conversations that are too graphic, inflammatory, etc. for very young people that could wander into the site to look at pictures of fishies. 

Like I said, though. It's not up to me, so we'll see. I don't think mild political conversations are a bad thing because they make people think. However, it puts a lot of pressure on the mods to determine what is acceptable and what is not. If someone starts a conversation that's just over the top and the thread is closed, the mods will get complaints such as "Oh you let so-and-so post about such-and-such, but you won't let me say blah blah". I've been a mod, I know what a pain it can be to do that kind of work. Instead of helping out members, you end up spending all of your time reprimanding people that can't keep a handle on their opinions.


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## mrmoby (Jan 18, 2005)

I think I can agree with most opinions here.

I definitely DON'T want to come her to talk straight politics. I am not interested in starting threads to bash Bush, discuss abortion, etc, because as stated previously, they cannot be full adressed here, and if I were interested in that, I certainly would seek it elsewhere. But, in the course of any discussion thread, politics may enter. When you talk of the disasters recently, gas prices, not to mention the war, something connected to politics is bound to come up.

And when I say politics, I don't neccesarly mean Washington, or what party you may affiliate yourself with. I take it more as your personal outlook on life. There have been threads here such as the kid in school that got bounced for talking on the phone to his mom in Iraq, or pot flavored lolipops. To me, when you give a response in those threads, you are giving a window into your points of view and beliefs, and in turn your political outlook.

As far as growing the community, I think active discussion of a variety of issues in an area like this is very healthy. Are there some that might happen across something they don't like, and leave and never come back? Maybe. I doubt it, because the first thing they would go for is the FISH information, and that should have them hooked. Bear in mind that there have been those that have fled because of being jumped all over in reponse to their stocking levels, etc. Whose to say people won't leave if they feel the quality of posting is "watered down" or too restrictive.

I guess my main point is this, it would be nice to have discussions with people who share a common interest, that are a little more serious than "what flavor ice cream is your favorite". Don't get me wrong, I love the light stuff too. I just hate seeing people being admonished the second they whisper Bush, or Democrat, etc.

Well.....that's my hundred and fifty cents. Im going up quicker than gasoline. Thanks for bearing with me............


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