# Nitrate too high!



## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

I have two fish tanks, a 20 and a 29. They have the exact same readins for everything. 
Ph:7.6+
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:160!!!!!
Ammonia:.25
Obviously... My nitrate is pretty terrible... Many of my community fish have been dying and my goldfish are sulky. 
They still all deffenatly have a great appetite and the guppies tend to stay at the top while the goldfish on the bottom, glofish bottom, and the others are supposed to be on the bottom. 
I have 3 Cory catfish in there to help with the recent addition of sand in the 20 gallon. 
My bristlenose pleco in goldfish tank seems to have some discoloration... Kind of looks like burns but I'm not sure.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

check your source water for nitrates, if that's is ok do a 50% water change then again in a couple of days to reduce it, you need to look at why they are so high, are you over stocked for your tank? plecos and goldfish produce lots of waste so it could be there, I use seachem matrix to control my nitrates but it can only cope if what is expected is reasonable, if the demands to great (way overstocked) it will not work as its meant too


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

nitrates are usually the end product of feeding your fish, but dead algae and plants and a "dirty" substrate can do it, too. Where did you get the sand?

Water changes are usually the way to go, but if you have a lot of "muck" cleaning the filter and/or substrate may be needed also.


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## DarwinAhoy (Mar 13, 2013)

What is your normal water change regimen?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i would suggest a good tank cleaning and 25% daily water changes and reduced feeding until things get straightened out...it really sounds like a combination of things with nitrate levels that high...also may be what is causing the ammonia spike..
stop feeding for a few days..
do a thorough cleaning of the substrate..
do 25% daily water changes for at least 2 weeks..


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

emc7 said:


> nitrates are usually the end product of feeding your fish, but dead algae and plants and a "dirty" substrate can do it, too. Where did you get the sand?
> 
> Water changes are usually the way to go, but if you have a lot of "muck" cleaning the filter and/or substrate may be needed also.


I got my sand from the petstore  it's titanium moon sand and ey told me, since I was having trouble gravel vacuuming anything from it that I should get some Cory catfish and they'll do it for me. I got the catfish 3 days ago.


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

DarwinAhoy said:


> What is your normal water change regimen?


I do a 10-15% water change every week, in the goldfish tank I gravel vaccum and I change the filter carriage on a different day, usually once a month, but more often if I need to. Which I only need to in the goldfish tank because theirs gets clogged for some reason.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

I vac the gravel every week and do a 25-30% water change because Oscars, acaras and plecos are messy fish.. same as your goldfish.. I would do the same if I was you, at least 25% water changes and vac the gravel every week


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

weedkiller said:


> I vac the gravel every week and do a 25-30% water change because Oscars, acaras and plecos are messy fish.. same as your goldfish.. I would do the same if I was you, at least 25% water changes and vac the gravel every week


Well that would explain the goldfish tank, but not the other one... 


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

you may be overstocked, may be overfeeding, undercleaning, your source may be high in nitrates as mine is hence I use seachem matrix.
you have no mention on your nitrates in your source water, that is the 1st thing you would check, if that is high your fish will add to it, on all tanks vac the gravel and 25% water change weekly


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

NItrate only goes down with water changes and its goes up with feeding. So if you have 100 nitrate, you change 10%, you are now at 90 ppm. But 20 ppm up in a week is in the normal range, so in a week its 110, next week it goes higher still. 

Its a slow, accumulation bit by bit. Like the dust bunnies under the couch. Skip vacuuming too long, you have a dust loch ness monster. Nitrate doesn't suddenly kill fish outright because fish sort of get used to it, but it skews the water chemistry, makes it harder for the filter to dead with nitrite and stresses the fish. Nitrate isn't an emergency (unless you need to move new fish in), but it is an issue. I move enough fish around that my tanks get fish-free every so often and then I give them a 100% water change before I move fish in. So I can start over from 0. 

I bet 160 is the highest number on the scale, & your nitrates are "off the chart". That is, you change 50% and you don't get 80 ppm like you'd expect, you still get 160 ppm because the number was actually 320, but the chart doesn't read that high. 

This is the old tank syndrome. Where "everything was fine" but slowly fish fail to thrive, die one by one or act stressed or get diseased. Eventually the pH may drop suddenly and several fish can die overnight.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

There a perfect explanation


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

Phew, ok well here's an update. I did go and buy top fin conditioner, and started tap water, I can get it from the bathtub, right? I've been doing daily 30% water changes and getting any dead leaves out. One fish is a little stressed but others seem fine, I hope. The test still shows 160 ppm nitrate, I've been doing water changes for 3 days In a row.. Ill continue with them for he whole week and then test again.

I've never done so much so often so close together before, I accidentally for the first time ever sucked in a fish and didn't notice... Poor girl had a red head and died.. Then I sucked up a frog, but quickly got her out. She is fine now.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Scale up, do 30%, then 40%, then 50%. 

30% should get nitrates down eventually, but if you are starting at 1000 , it could be a week of daily changes before you see it go down. to 80 ppm..


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

emc7 said:


> Scale up, do 30%, then 40%, then 50%.
> 
> 30% should get nitrates down eventually, but if you are starting at 1000 , it could be a week of daily changes before you see it go down. to 80 ppm..


You seem to know quite a bit about this. How big can nitrates get? Because a few weeks ago my fish did start to die off..


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't have a test that measures over 160 ppm, so I really don't know how high they get. But ppm is parts per million, so 1000 ppm is only 1 part in 1000 or about 1 g in a liter of water. We probably feed 10 grams at every feeding, so it adds up fast. 

You can'g say for sure that nitrates killed your fish unless you measure a pH of 3 (I have), but you can't say they didn't contribute unless you have them way down like 20 ppm. 

You may well have a disease or aggression issue as well as a nitrate one, but water quality is easier to test. 

The point at which nitrates drop you pH off a cliff depends on the "buffering capacity" of the water. Where I lived before, we had well water from a limestone aquifer and the shower heads needed soaking in vinegar once a week to keep them flowing. If you just topped off the tank and never changed water, you could go about 2 years before all the fish would suddenly die at once. But here, our water is so soft (TDS > 50 ppm), you would see pH drop below 7 in a week and if you neglect a tank for several weeks, pH of 3 or 4 are not unheard of. 

I have been in this hobby since back before anyone routinely measured nitrates. We knew they were there, but we didn't worry about them. Undergravel filters were common and people didn't clean under the plate until fish started dying. 

How bad are high nitrates that aren't bad enough to crash your pH? There is a lot of debate. Certainly strains of fish that have been in the hobby a long time have a lot more tolerance than wild-caught fish. We have selected for it by breeding the survivors of bad conditions. And rift-lake fish deal better will all dissolved ions in water including nitrate than fish that come from soft, clean, moving water.

IME, the lower nitrate the better. Fish with cleaner water grow faster, breed more, have better color, and more activity. There are risks involved with water changes, and the occasional killer water change put a lot earlier hobbyists off the idea. But now the consensus is pretty strong that clean water is best and low-nitrate is a pretty good indicator of clean water. How much of the "old tank" issues are due to nitrate and not phosphate or fish pheromones or electrolyte deficiency or stress chemicals, or lack of trace elements or too high a conductivity is a subject for research and debate and probably depends on the individual fish. 

Its pretty certain that if you can safely & consistently give your fish clean water they will have a lot fewer health issues that if you can't. You won't get a cold unless you are exposed to the virus, but you will likely get sicker and recover more slowly if you are stressed studying for finals and/or not eating and sleeping right. Nitrate and other "old tank" water pollutants are an avoidable stressor to fish. So it is best to avoid it as much as possible.


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

emc7 said:


> You can'g say for sure that nitrates killed your fish unless you measure a pH of 3 (I have), but you can't say they didn't contribute unless you have them way down like 20 ppm.
> 
> You may well have a disease or aggression issue as well as a nitrate one, but water quality is easier to test.


Well I have all super friendly fish and nothing else was ever wrong. My ph isn't at 3 it's in fact higher and I haven't done a high ph test range yet but it's off the chart of the normal one.

I guess I'll do daily water changes and check again in a week. I've had fish for maybe 7 years, and I'm pretty young so it's interesting. I still have my very first fish, a goldfish. But I think I may have to give him away to a pond sooner or later ;( I don't know if I can do it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I named my first fish and cried when she died. It gets easier, but the first one is special.


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

emc7 said:


> I named my first fish and cried when she died. It gets easier, but the first one is special.


Yes, his name is Flipper, 8 inch long goldfish, 7 years old. Started of with his buddy Swimmer, they were in a 2.5 gallon tank as a birthday present to me when I was only 7.


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## v-paw (Feb 17, 2013)

Sorry to bump, but I did it! My nitrates are at 10ppm!!!! Phew, 30-59A% Dailey water changes for like 2 weeks and finally, it's on the chart and low!  so to maintain this I should just do a 20% weekly? Or is it better to do 15% twice a week?


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

the more you do and change (if the source Is low) the lower it will be.
20%+ weekly 
and well done


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Change the amount you need to change to keep it from rising week after week. Some people change 50% when it gets to @ 20 ppm to get it back to 10 ppm. Some change less water more often. Do a 20% and check it until you get a feel for how much, how often it takes to keep it in a low range.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

if you still suffer with nitrates I would still recommend seachem matrix... works a charm for me... my nitrates from the tap is at least 50ppm


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