# got new fish ! and question on sharks ?



## bsmith

well today i got my peacock eel, he is pretty small right now but seems to be active. he stays in the tunnels i just made out of black pvc pipe. they look real nice with the black stand and blue gravel now. but does anyone know anything about these iridescent sharks? i want a pair of these, they are about 1-2" right now, how long until they start to get too big for my other fish in my 40gallon tank? that is after i remove the 3 pictus cats that i have.


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## shev

I think Id sharks will outgrow your tank very quickly. they get much too large. I wouldnt get any


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## flynngriff

Agreed...

Iridescent sharks can grow to 3 feet long. Granted, that would take a while, but they'll still outgrow your tank rather quickly.


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## bsmith

ok, well my now that my pictus cats are not alive anymore, i will have 5 tiger barbs, 2 fire gouramis, 1 snail and a peacock eel, what fierce looking fish can i get to replace my pictus cats, i just want two of whatever ill get. thanks guys


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## shev

what hapened to your pictus? is your tank cycled?


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## fishfreaks

our lfs has an iradescent shark thats two 1/2 ft long. That is one big beast!!! all 4 of your pictus' died?


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## shev

I woud definately not add any more fish if yours are dying off.


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## Pac-Man

I sharks will get MUCH too big. why don't you let us try and help you find out what killed your pictus before you add any more fish? what are you water parameters, etc.


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## bsmith

hey man trust me i care a lot about my fish, dont get me wrong i am very upset about this trajedy, i got home today and one of my gouramis and my last tiger fish was laying at the bottom of the tank, i just thought it was ICK because they all had the same symptoms, i put the treatment in and i thought i just after it was too late for them but i was glad the tank got treated before other were endangered, but now that more of my fish are dying without these symptoms i am realizing that there is something really wrong going on.


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## Pac-Man

eek... srry... mistake on my part, i didnt understand that they had ick, i did not read ur other post...ooops...are u still treating for ICH? this would be the best thing to do for a while....


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## bsmith

i just changed a couple gallons of water out of my tank i was cycling for a puffer tank, so now i put that in seeing if that helps !


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## bsmith

what else can i do, i put the drops in, changed some of the water, but now what ?


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## Pac-Man

hmm.. well if the parameters on the tank are different, like the Ph, temp. etc, it could cause even more stress on you fish. continue treating for ich... im srry about your fish... do u have any parameters u can post? do u have a test kit?


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## bsmith

parameter ? the tank is " 20deap x 36wide x 14height "


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## bsmith

ohh well the temp stays the same, it goes from 78-80ish, the heater is messed up i got a new one but its in the mail. the filteration is great, i have the 40-60gallon filter a bubble stone and a stone that sticks to the side, and the Ph and all should be fine, i dont have a tester right now


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## Pac-Man

no, the tanks chemical levels. like ammonia nitrate nitrite pH. this is what i mean by parameters. do u have a test kit? if not u should really get one. some additional things u can do to kill ich: gradually raise temp. to 86 degrees, this will kill any ich parasites swimming in the water. and if u have access add aquarium salt. i think its like one tsp. pers 5 gallons. this will get rid of the little white dots u see, the cysts.


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## bsmith

i am raising the temp right now, i have no kit to test, or salt, so temp is all i can do.


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## shev

I still think your tank is not cycled. As you said, you dont have a testing kit so you dont know if it is or isnt finished cycling.

Ok, fish produce ammonia through pooping and respiration. There is bacteria that is everywhere that kicks in in the presence of ammonia, this bacteria converts the ammonia into nitrites, which are slightly less toxic than ammonia. there is a second bacteria that converts the nitrties into nitrates, the least toxic of them all, which are taken out with water changes, and plants use them too.

To cycle your tank you need a source of ammonia to feed the bacteria. Even after cycling you should not add too many fish at once (which is what I suspect you did) beause the new load of fish will produce more ammonia than there is the bacteria to convert it all to nitrites, causing a mini-cycle. I think you didnt finish cycling, then added too many fish at once causing a gigantic spike in ammonia killing your fish. The ammonia and nitrites in the water will also stress them making thme much more susceptible to ich.


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## shev

Oh, and start maing many small water changes (with conditioned water) to dilute the ammonia in the tank, if there is too much amonia, it can actually inhibit the growth of the good bacteria too. I believe anything over 5ppm ammonia? or something around there?


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## shev

bsmith said:


> hey man trust me i care a lot about my fish, dont get me wrong i am very upset about this trajedy, i got home today and one of my gouramis and my last tiger fish was laying at the bottom of the tank, i just thought it was ICK because they all had the same symptoms, i put the treatment in and i thought i just after it was too late for them but i was glad the tank got treated before other were endangered, but now that more of my fish are dying without these symptoms i am realizing that there is something really wrong going on.


ok, dont treat the fish for ich unless you are sure they have it. Most obvious way of telling are the white dots, like salt, over the body. ich medications contain things like copper, which isnt good for any fish. and I believe pictus are especially prone to death when using anything with malachite green in it.


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## shev

sorry for quadroople posting.



> i just changed a couple gallons of water out of my tank i was cycling for a puffer tank, so now i put that in seeing if that helps !


the water from an established tank will not yield nearly as much good bacteria as something with a lot of surface area, like filter media, and subsrtate. decorations too.

oh, and I stronly suggest you do seed your tank with good bacteria. I cant stress how much it speeds along cycling. bacteria grows exponentially, the more there is the faster it grows. but do not contaminate a tank with water or filter media, substrate and decorations from a tank that the fish are dying in.


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## bsmith

ok well i woke up this morning and my eel, my barb and a pleco have passed today. 
i guess i really messed up on the cycling, im new to this and havent gotten the process. what does it mean to "seed your tank with good bacteria" ? I am very certain the fish had ich because they did have the white spots and rubbed on the glass and all the symptons, so i think i did the right thing, maybe not im not sure. but it seems to me this takes a long time, i am moving into a new place at the end of july so i think its best to see who will last right now, try to save them, and then wait so i can get the tank cycling properly after i move. this is awful but i appreciate all your help. any more advice on trying to save my last two fish would be great !


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## shev

looks like your fish got hit with a triple entende. ammonia, malachite green, and ich. So what fish do you have left? and obvioulsy stop adding fish if they are dying as I said before. to Seed a tank with bacteria means you gotta get some bacteria from an established tank, and put it in yours. the bacteria is all over any surfaces of the aquarium. do you have an established aqarium? or maybe a friend that has one? try to get some of their substrate, or filter media, which is where a lot of the bacteria will be hiding. any tank decorations, like rocks or driftwood will also help, and put them in your tank. oh and start maing about 40% water changes daily to dilute the amonia. now that there are only 2 fish, and their not plecos that make a lot of waste, you shouldnt be getting too much amonia being produced.

get a testing kit to see how much ntrites amonia and nitrates you have.


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## bsmith

yea my fish got taken. i am usi ng a tank and the gravel that was used a couple weeks before me so there should be some bacteria ? i am def not adding more fish but i do have 2 gouramis and my pleco left, i thought they were dead but not.


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## shev

DId the gravel or tank dry out before you restalked it? then the bacteria would be dead.

make sure you are removing the dead fish

gouramis and plecos ar very hardy fish. I think some plecos like the bristlenosed can breathe air if they need to, and gouramis use a labirynth organ to breathe air.


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## bsmith

well the gravel was dry on top but i could tell it was still a little wet on the bottom of the gravel, the gravel was in the tank when they gave it to me.
i am taking out the dead fish, i saw the pleco going to the top and getting air, it looked like, they are doin fine as of now !


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## Pac-Man

good. keep up with those water changes. I do strongly recommend that you purchase a test kit though.


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## bsmith

price on test kits, just to know im getting the right thing. and does a kit last for one time or how many times can i use it ?


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## Lexus

Kits range from $9-$50+ I got mine from walmart for $9 and has I think 25 test strips in it. There are also kits where you add drops to water in a little vial, those last longer.


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## Imbrium

The kind of test kit you need can also depend on what (if any) water conditioners you use.


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## Pac-Man

an accurate master liquid drop test kit is available form aquarium pharmacueticals. i got mine for like 14.99. i think the liquid test kits are more accurate than the strips. i can get a ton of tests out of mine.


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## shev

If you didint clean out the tank before you stalked it you could have problems that the owner before you had, and dead bacteria can also be a problem.


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## bsmith

ahhhh i see now


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## bsmith

hey guys i really appreciate all the help, i think ive come to the conclusion that i had not cycled my tank before adding all my fish, and i had ich. i now know what to do once i set it up again, but i was wondering if i could still get help on what to get once i get the tank cleaned and ready to be set up again, i really want an eel, i think they look really cool, something oddball like that that looks really mean, and maybe moves around a little, and i want 2 sharks/catfish, and a school of about 6 small fish and two bigger fish like gouramis or cichilids or something, anyone have any suggestions with all that in mind ? 
thanks a lot for the help its been great


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## bsmith

anyone have any help ?


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## ALFA WOLF

OH i got a good fish in mind. violet gubies AKA Dragon fish ie never had any luck with those fish though.


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## bsmith

yea i was just looking at those guys, they look really cool but said something about adding a tablespoon of salt to every gallon on water ? that wont work with all my other fish.... i was looking up things and have found that i want.... does anyone think this will go well in my 40 gallon, and are my numbers accurate for my size tank ?

small fish - 8 bumble bee gobi's & maybe 6tiger barbs
medium fish - 2 cichilids or 2gouramis
cats - 2cory cats or 2clown loaches
eel - 2kuhli loaches, 2dojo eel or 2weather loach
pleco - 1bristle nose pleco


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## shev

they are eelish, but are brackish water fish and wouldnt fit in with the set up.


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## bsmith

so how do my numbers on the list look ? 
and how hard is it to get these fish, i am in a place far from many good fish stores and the closest is an hour away, so its gonna be hard to pick them up and take them home, how can i get all these fish inexpensively ?


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## shev

scratch the clown loaches, too big. 

bumble bee gobies are also brackish, or maybe they dont NEED to be, but probably should be.

the only right sized community cichlids I can think of are kribensis and rams. and both will work great with the setup.

I think gouramis and tiger barbs dont get along...

bristle nosed is a good choice as they stay smaller, but I suggest you get some good driftwood for them as they love the stuff.

if you are getting corydoras I'd get a very large group of them. I'd try to steer to a couple larger groups of one kind of fish, than a bunch of smaller groups of different kinds of fish.

kuhli loaches will fit great in a 40 gallon, again, I'd try and get a group of them instead of a pair.

weather loaches prefer slightly cooler wate, but would generally get along with the fish.


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## bsmith

i use to have 6 tiger barbs and 2 gouramis and they were great together, they chased each other but never picked at each other..
so maybe a pair of rams or gouramis, 4 kuhlis, 4 corys, and i still want a school of something , i really like the bumble bees because they are cute, but if they wont match well, then what else will be suitable in a school of about 5-8 ? i like the cherry barbs or tiger barbs, anything else ?


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## ALFA WOLF

get more tiger barbs in at least 6 cause they will nip other fish and they are less likly to do that in a group, and yeah sry the loach has to go it will out grow your tank. and to shev yo i have tiger barbs in with my blue gurami and they stay together really well.
Its about 8 tigerbarbs and 3 blue guramis in a 120 gallon.oh and forgot to ask dont the plecos get really big. Or am i thinking of another fish with similar name.


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## ALFA WOLF

yeah tigers and cherrys do good i also like to have groups of green tiger barbs and neon tetras. Normally small fish is what i keep in groups. Thier are some exeptions though.


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## bsmith

the loach doesnt get but 3", plecos can get really large when you get a common pleco, some dont get but a couple inches


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## ALFA WOLF

are u sure loaches dont get big im talkign about the clown loach.


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## bsmith

i mean the kuhli loach


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## ALFA WOLF

OH. lol i totaly lmissed that one.


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## bsmith

i have a blue gravel that looks relaly nice with the light that i just got, it makes all the colors come out, so i was wondering if the bumblebees are out of the question or not, because if i can get them, then i want to get a pair of red and yellow cichilids to go along with a couple corys, the ones that are kinda clear and greenish, and 2 kuhli loaches.... sound all good ?


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## ALFA WOLF

huh what kind of lighting is it im curious.


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## bsmith

well i got it at petsmart , its ZooMed "Coral Sun" bulb, it was like 20$ and its awsome, it shows the effects of daylight and whatnot.

anyone have any opinion on my last post about the fish still ?


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## shev

I'd get an even larger group of corydoras, like 6. what cichlids are you talking about? kribensis and rams would work. kuhli loaches will fit very well.

ok.... so name all the fish you are thinking of again.


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## bsmith

haha ok this si confusing sinse i really dont know, but im wanting maybe 4 corys, 4-6 cichlids, 1 pleco, 2 kuhlis. i am not sure about the cichlids, i dont know about rams, they arent as colorful as i want. but i posted in the cichlid list to see about some smaller kinds of cichlids.. fishfreaks says that i can get " kribs red zebras,yellow labs, socofoli (sp?) keyhole cichlids " so i guess some of those will work sinse they are smaller breads. does all that sound alright ? im not sure how easy it is to get any of these fish in my area, but i hope i can find some on aquabid.com


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## bsmith

ok so i think i want a pair of pure yellow cichlids, a pair of blue and black "convicts" with/without yellow on the top fins, and another pair of something. i guess these have to be all dwarfs, so if anyone knows any tech terms for something that resembles this i would appreciate it. thanks


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## fishfreaks

by "blue and black convicts" im assuming you mean male and female?


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## bsmith

haha im not sure, they are blue with black stripes


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## fishfreaks

well is this what your fish looks like? because if so, and they are very colorful around the belly are and top fin, then it is a female convict. if there is a bump on the head and long pointy fins, then it is a male.http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db2.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0243&picture_page_view=1


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## bsmith

something like this .... http://images.google.com/imgres?img...&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-22,GGLG:en&sa=N

i havent gotten any fish, thats just what i want, actually both of those, the blue stripes and the pure yellow, and then another pair, but not sure what colors, i like the blue with yellow top fins.. like this http://images.google.com/imgres?img...chlid&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-22,GGLG:en
or any of these
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...lids&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-22,GGLG:en


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## shev

wont mix with corydoras. corys wouldnt appreciate the hard water that malawi cichlids like. they'll also get killed.

those wont fit in a 40 gallon anyway.


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## bsmith

hey i went to a LFS and they had some kuhli loaches, except they were no bigger than an inch long, were they babies or will they get long enough so the cichlids wont eat them ? and i saw some corys there too, they looked big enough that no adult cichlid will eat them.. am i wrong ?


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## fishfreaks

most cory cats only get about 2 inches, and i think the aggressive or even semi-aggressive cichlids would eat the kuhlis.


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## bsmith

1. so are the corys are ok? or not? i really like them a lot and they will probably be going with yellow labs and yellow top mbamba's. 

2. also how many of these cichlids can i put together in a 40gallon tank ?

3. how large will both of these breeds get in length?

4. whats another addition i can get that i like a kuhli, that will go well with cichlids and corys ?

if i can get these answered i promose ill stop asking so many questions !


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## Lydia

kinda off topic but....shev it is spelled stocked not stalked


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## bsmith

anyone got any help for me?


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## fishfreaks

shesh dont be so impatient haha. i would say maybe 3 yellow labs and maybe 2 yellow tops. your going to want someone more experienced to voice their opinion on that one though before you go making any final descisions. research the fish on the net and youll know how big they get. they all should get around 4-5 inches in size.


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## bsmith

haha sorry i know im impatient, i looked around and sites say they dont get over 4". but im sure they might get to about 5". i just have no idea how many cichlids can go in a 40gallon tank, people say that overcrowding cichlids is better than not having enough, so im askin the pros !


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## Osiris

exactly! u want it to be slightly overstocked the inch pergallon rule blows and i do not follow it as many cichlid keepers do not either. I do not know much about peacock eels, i have seen them, cool how they dive into substrate likes it's water...i would think it would treat them like ghost shrimp, attackin them in the sand...but not sure


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## TheOldSalt

Mbunas and Corys? Mbunas and Loaches?

These fish can't go together. Well, they might get along until they died, but one group or the other is gonna be mighty unhappy. Mbuna water is very, very different from the asian and south american waters of the loaches and cories. VERY different.


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## bsmith

ok so i cant put these two together, i guess thats my unfortunate consensus. but how many of these will i be able to fit, you all say i should overstock it, but how many does that mean! 40gallon is what im workin with.. the fish shouldnt get over4-5" yellow labs and yellow top mbamba's. thanks!


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## shev

Lydia said:


> kinda off topic but....shev it is spelled stocked not stalked


lol, thanks. Dunno what I was thinking.


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