# Substrate Suggestions



## bpswim90 (Oct 30, 2005)

I'm sick and tired of my substrate. It's a combo of some smaller inert black gravel on bottom with some larger gravel on top. It isn't really doing anything for my plants. I also have issues with some plants not staying in the substrate, probably because it's not a very easy substrate for the roots to get... rooted in. I'm basically prepared to just change it all out. 

So, what is your preferred/most successful substrate/substrate combinations? Ideally, I want something which will provide ample nutrients to the plants, be easy to root in, and won't need to be changed any time soon.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I have plants doing well in sand, pea gravel, large gravel, and Flourite. Substrate is less important than nutrients in the water and lighting IMO.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

ADA soils
Soilmaster select
Turface (grey if you can find it)
Onyx sand
Flourite


My favorites in order...............


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## bpswim90 (Oct 30, 2005)

Tell me then how you get them to grow well. Because I've got medium-high lighting, I add SeaChem Flourish once a week, and at one point I had some CO2 going in and my plants still don't ever seem to be growing. 

Additionally, I've got this godforsaken BGA problem which I can't seem to fix. Maybe that's what's screwing me up. I have no idea where to find nitrate supplements though. I've no idea if anything I'm doing is even having any effect on the bettering of my tank. Sigh...


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Not a clue. I don't dose any of the tanks with anything and have removed all of the CO2 injectors and everything is still thriving to the point where I usually have to trim stuff twice a week. I'm convinced it has to do with my water. We have water that is hard and alkaline and has enough calcium and iron to leave deposits and discoloration everywhere, as well as a lot of other TDS. The lighting on each of the tanks varies from low stock lighting in Eclipse tanks to 96w on my 55g. Most have stock lighting though. No algae issues really other than the regular normal hard green spots on the glass. About the only thing I seem to have a problem with is java fern - the leaves slowly turn black. But that's fine, I don't like java fern much anyway.  I've got anacharis, various types of anubias, dwarf sag, Mexican oak leaf, wisteria, ludwigia repens, lloydiella, myrio, various crypts, marimo balls, rotala indica, gigantic swords and several other things.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Depends on the plants you have. Some do well without any added suppliments. Some are more demanding. One thing to keep in mind is you need stable parameters (nutrients, lighting, and CO2), for at least 2-3 weeks to see any noticeable difference. Fluctuating CO2 will cause more harm than low co2.


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## bpswim90 (Oct 30, 2005)

The plants I have aren't any where near demanding. An amazon sword, a couple anacharis, and a couple java ferns. As such, I'm convinced it's the BGA which is killing them. So my top priority will be to PERMANANTLY eliminate this stuff. I'm talking a 5-day blackout, followed by nitrate additions, followed by an antibiotic if absolutely necessary.

I want it gone.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Remove all the bga you can and cover the tank with a blanket for 5 days. Do a large waterchange after. BGA is triggered usually by no3 bottoming out.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

This is my first planted tank so I'm by no means an expert but I am using eco-complete mixed with medium sized dark brown gravel and it's working great. I wish I would have used all eco-complete cuz I think the plants root really good in it but I didn't want all black gravel. My plants are thriving. I have no co2 but high light and I do have the air tube I'm using bubbling as low as I can to try to make up a little bit for the lack of co2. I have been randomly adding Kent plant products just cuz I had some from a long time ago (probably no good and just squirting colored water into my tank  ) but anyway, bottom line, my plants are noticably growing and look very healthy.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2007)

IME pea sized gravel works great


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Using an airstone will drive off co2, not increase it.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

yeah I know, that's why it's bubbling very low. I guess it didn't read right... I mean, I don't have co2 so to try to not make the situation of no co2 even worse, I have my airstone bubbling very low instead of high.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2007)

I'd go with Eco Complete or ADA Aquasoil. Both are nutrient rich. The Aquasoil is probably the better choice. You'll only need 1 bag for a 10g, so thats about $25 or so. Once you buy flourite, gravel, and whatever else to mix up a substrate, you'll have spent more than that. I'd just go with AS or Eco.  My Crypts exploded with growth after I changed my 55g to Eco. 

Start dosing KNO3 or Nitrogen to fix the BGA problem. Like Damon said, its usually caused by bottoming out nitrates.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You shouldn't have an airstone in there at all is what I'm getting at.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

Damon said:


> You shouldn't have an airstone in there at all is what I'm getting at.


This is getting off topic, but I do need to ask... why? If I don't have an airstone the top of the water will be almost stagnent. My spray bar is just below the surface and creates some movement but not much at the surface, and my powerhead is well below the surface to create undercurrent (for combatting algea) so I don't think my fish would get enough oxygen in the water if I didn't have an airstone at all. Or am I mistaken??


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Why would the powerhead combat algae? One has nothing to do with the other.
You really dont need a powerhead. How is your spraybar psitioned? Mounting it vertically just below the waterline is ideal. What are the tank dimensions?


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

Water flow combats algea. If you've ever had an ornamental pond you know all too well that high water movement will elliminate algea while low water movement - well, becomes a green mess. That's why the powerhead. Powerheads move water, and water movement combats algea. I know this to be true as I have had a pond overrun with algea until I changed the water spray thingy from spraying upward (decorative) to laying it down and moving the water around in the pond - all the algea was gone in a flash. Same for the tank. Had algea, added the powerhead to create more water movement, no more algea. So, IMO I would never go without a powerhead in a high light tank - it's just asking for dealing with algea. 
The spray bar is already mounted as you mentioned and the tank is a 50 breeder 36 long, 18 deep, and whatever high - fish don't swim up and down so I don't concern myself with height. 

So that's all it. I'm gonna keep the powerhead, and I'll keep the bubble wand bubbling low and we'll see what happens with regard to the need for co2.
Peace out 

And as for the original post - I still recommend Eco-complete


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

While waterflow may help prevent algae from establishing itself it does not prevent algae. Algae is triggered in ponds by ammonia and sunlight. Once triggered it feeds itself on nutrients in the pond/tank. Having owned several high light tanks and set up dozens more for my local group, I have never needed a powerhead in any size tank.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Damon, I noticed you didn't list eco-complete in your favorite substrate list. I'm in the process of setting up a tank with it and I was wondering what you don't like about it.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

? Maybe you are misunderstanding... it seems to me, we are in agreement. I said water movement combats algae and you said water movement may help with algea... it's the same. I never said a powerhead prevented algea, that was a misquote. I know that the higher water movement is very good for combating algea and although I appreciate that you are telling me you have vast fish knowledge, I do also, and so, I will keep the powerhead as I know that it can and does keep algea to a minimum or, in the case of my pond, completely elliminated it. As you surely know since you also have knowledge of fishkeeping, algae hates high water current, hence the reason the powerhead aka high water flow, works so well. 
Thanks for your input.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I personally don't like eco-complete because................
It attracts bba
The coloring washes off leaving white bits in the tank
When I had mine, there was a bad batch on the market that was extremely high in PO4
Too expensive


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Mazzy, you're missing my point. If you are getting algae in the tank in abundance, there is something wrong in there. In the case of a planted tank, algae blooms mean imbalance in the tripod of plant life (light/co2/ferts). The powerhead will help fix the result, but not the problem.


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## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

oh, I'm not getting algea in abundance, I don't have algea at all, litterally at all, at the moment. If anything I'm worried there aren't going to be enough nutrients for my plants since algea isn't even growing. I am simply saying that for my part, I prefer high water movement to stave off algea. I understand your point about inequalities in water conditions; my point is simply that all things being correct, in planted tanks (especially without co2), algea happens- albeit in smaller amounts in more balanced tanks, and that I prefer the use of a powerhead to help reduce that issue, as I find it unsightly.

When I first set up the tank to be a planted tank - algea galore - then the tank finished cycling, the plants became established, and now all is well on the algea front. BUT I will not remove the powerhead as I would prefer to see no algea, not even the little dots of it that get on the glass, if I can prevent it. And I believe that using a powerhead will at least help in that respect.

As for the Eco-complete, I really hope mine doesn't turn white. You said yours was a bad batch. How did you know that? Or was it an assumption cuz you had trouble with it?? SO far I am loving the results - but mine hasn't turned white (yet) either.

As far as all subs - just fyi to the original poster, there is a thread on here in the planted section that someone took pics of using Eco-complete and in another tank using Flourite. I'm sorry I can't direct you to it but you can scan the threads and find it I'm sure. It's an eye opener, or at least it was for me when I saw that Flourite tank.


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## TigerBarb12 (Jan 7, 2007)

any kind of substrate should work


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The turning white is random. Happens in good batches as well. Not a lot but noticeable. As for getting a bad bag from a bad batch, Caribsea has already replaced the bad bags. There arent any more out there unless someone has been sitting on one for 8 months +. They made it known after several people complained about excessive po4. I'm sure there is still a link on their website about the issue.


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