# prazipro not helping with the flukes!



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

does anyone have any ideas what else I can do? The fry are still developing pintail, losing weight, going dark and breathing hard and then dying.
I am absolutly stumped as to what to do. The mother fish of these fry had been treated 3 times for flukes before they had babies, the 10 gallon tank where thefry currently reside has been treated 3 times and none of the previously infected fish show any signs that there are flukes in the water.
No-one has flicked, rubbed or whatever.
is there something else I can do? I do not want to move them back to the 5 gallon where they were born as the moms will likely eat them and I am hoping that the treatments in there will get the flukes gone without more problems.
I was reading in an old fish kepping book and it indicates there are many different kinds of flukes. The old remedy was to do a 1:2000 ammonia dip.
ideas?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

well fishyfarmacy sell de-los http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products.html#De-Los which it claim will kill fluke eggs, Prazi-Pro only kill grown flukes. One of these days I'll have to buy something from them, I keep using their disease charts. I've also heard of using those de-worming pills for dogs in aquariums, but I don't know the dosage.

If the reason the prasi-pro isn't working is that more keep hatching, maybe you could look up the life-cycle of these things and keep dosing at intervals. 

Sorry I can't be more help. Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with these yet.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

it is still a mystery as to where they first came from anyway. I suspect that the fish carry them most of the time kind of like ich.
I do have some LIFEBEARER on hand now- just have to finish this course of treatment with prazi, change water add charcoal etc( for the 5 gallon tank).
Can't use the Lifebearer tho on loach.
Aniother problem is to know when one could introduce the adult fish or partially gorwn fish back into the amin tank. if the previous 3 treatments did't solve the problem where will it stop??
Really frustrated and wondering. No fry have died today which is a good sign I guess; still some symptoms but not as bad. 
From what I read they have about a 5 day cycle when the critters are free swimmers but I bet there are free swimmers almost every day-- one fluke likely does not mature at the same rate as another.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

so i did another prazipro treatment on the tank with the loach on friday as another 2 fry got pintail. One died, one survived. Today is monday and another fry now has pintail from the tank treated on friday so obviously there are still flukes in the tank. I would think that if any baby flukes got into the water they would be killed by the prazi.
does it mean if the prazi only kills adult flukes that the newborn free swimming flukes are not killed. 
the five gallon tank has 2 fry in it that have at this point no problems. I am reluctant to take the fry from the 10 gallon loach tank and pu them in the 5.
So I got a gallon container, added lifebearer and quickcure to it. warmed up the water in a 1/2 cup applesauce container that floats in the 10 gallon and drained the 2 sick fry into a net and dropped them into the new solution. One is not doing so well. Its breathing real fast. The other one seem as bit more active.
I got this remedy from a guppy breeder ( www.deltaguppies.com) 
I figure I have nothing to lose as these little guys will likely not make it. experience with the prazi indicates that once the fry get the flukes they do not recover from the damage enough to survive.
I actually saw a fluke loosen itself from the head of the fry. When the fry died I could not see any flukes on it, but it died just the same. 
I wish I had a more powerful magnifying glass to be sure of what I think I see.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

the one fry died that had the flukes on its head. The other one is looking ok but seems to be real tired. The tail has gone back to regular shape and it swims about a little but is not making any attempt to feed.It is breathing a bit faster than I would like. I drained the Lifebearer and quick cure out of its cup and put it back in prazipro today. I also did a water change in the main tank. Still none of the older guppy fry in the tank have any signs of flukes.
This tank has now had 6 doses of Prazipro over the last month or so.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

At this point it would be a safe bet to assume that flukes are simply not the problem.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

any suggestions as to what else we could be dealing with? 
We have enough water changes that should significantly increase our water bill this month.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

*5 days now, no symptoms and the fry all look ok*

All fry doing well even the one I separated out and gave the Quickcure/Lifebearer treatment to.
Still paranoid- I check them over 2-3 times a day!
There looks to be a nice variety in colors. I don't know if the fry are from the males in the tank where I bought the mother or from my male I wanted her to mate with. Some are bright orange and some are brownish.Some have black bands on the tail edges.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well as posted the other week, one fry developed pintail. I treated it and it seems not too bad( tail is now deformed) but now another fry has developed pintail so back to treating the tank again!
At least there is a couple of weeks between the developing of the disease so I am hoping that is under control. 
Still really annoying though.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2009)

Mousey, have u tried using rock salt in the tank? i had an issue with flukes when i had my angels. i added rock salt to the water and treated with aqurisol and moved the temp up to 84f for 2 weeks. i lost 4 of them and i sold the other 5 later since i got more rams and they are doin fine with the new owner.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I am not sure what rock salt is.
is it the same as aquarium salt?
Well there are another 4 with pintails this morning and one that was treated 2 days ago has died.Monday I had done a 30% water change and added the Lifebearer with some quick cure. -kind of a toxic bomb . now I have just retreated with the lifebearer. I will have tyo go hunt for the Aquarisol but if you recall I used prazipro before with little results.
I am going to be poor by the time this is over.
it is odd that the tanks were clear for a few weeks.if any one has any idea what else this could be I am all ears.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2009)

rock salt is basically sea or salt water harvested salt. its appears in the form of rocks. its untreated and salt in its purest form. i have seen ALL the lfs dudes here add rock salt to thier tanks.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I still don't think it's flukes. 
I think you may have a rare sort of protozoan infestation of critters called Trichodina. They are very nasty, hard to see, very bad news for your fish, and keep coming back again & again after you think they're gone. The tailfins are their primary target, so the symptom you see with the tails sounds about right. 
These are mighty hard to get rid of, but it's doable. Search around for the option you think will work best for you. I've only had this problem a few times, and usually just wound up scrapping the tank and starting over. Yes, they're that bad. Even prazi-pro only knocks them down for awhile.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Thanks TOS.
I was in to see the manager ( degree in marine biology) at Big Al's and he thinks I must have killed every fluke there is by now.
He says that other bacterial or viral diseases can cause pin tail too. He suggested using Kanaplax in case it is bacterial.
What do you think of that?
I will be looking up you trichodina.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

By all means, try everything. Eventually something oughta work.

As for the trichodina, one strong indicator of them is that the fish are fine all night, but suddenly start getting affected within a few hours of the lights coming on in the morning. They rest at night, you see, and swarm by day, and by lunchtime you can start losing fish. It's very alarming to watch.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

The fry have never shown any signs that you would think typical of a parasite bothering them. No shimmy no scratching. 
2 of the fry today that I have separated just to see if the Lifebearer works now have their tails open again. 1 other will die from the looks of it and the other still has the pin tail.
The 'disease' process is a bit different than the original out break of flukes back a number of weeks ago. These little fish are not seeking oxygen, nor do the colors change, nor do they spiral before dying.
the 2 that have died thus far and the one about to die just lose weight and have the pin tail.
From my reading the trichodina does not feed off the fish and is only treatable with potassium permanganate.
Do you know where I can get that or if it is in some fish treatments That I can buy?
tomorrow when the lifebearer tx is complete i will give the tank a 50% water change,and clean the filter. I dunno what else to do short of stripping the tank down. that will also endanger the fry as they will have a cycling tank to deal with.
if I was sure there was no critters on the fry I would transfer a few of the bigger oness to the next tank but again I am afraid of starting something in another tank that I am going to be sorry about.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

you should be able to get P.P. at most anyplace that sells pond supplies.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Many pharmacies also still carry it. I don't know how it may be regulated in Canada, if at all. You guys can often still get stuff we can't, and in stronger concentrations.


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