# Questions about power compact lighting.



## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

So i just got this power compact lamp in the mail (i won it on ebay, 48" for $90!).
It is a 4 bulb set up. It came with 2 blues and 2 10000k daylight ones. Are these going to be acceptable for my freshwater plants? Is the increased brightness going to piss off my fish?
Also, this is about 130 watts of lighting for my 55 gallon tank that is about 24" deep. I want this to be the only lighting i have. Do i need a CO2 system for this to work? I would really rather not have the CO2 because it is one more thing that i can screw up and kill my fish with. Also, with increased plant growth i will actually have to groom the plants, something i would rather not do. 
Another thing, how exactly should i have this thing set up? Do i need to buy a piece of glass to go over the bulbs? Should i buy those funky arm things that attach to the side of the tank? Or am i better off getting two 24" glass tops for the tank? Would that reflect too much light to be useful?

I know this is a lot of questions but i do need to figure these things out from people who have actually used this type of lighting. Right now i have two 10" 18 watt fluorescent lamps and one 48" 40 watt lamp on the tank and my plants seem to be growing slowly.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The blue wont hurt your fish. Without Co2 only run 2 lights. Personally I would remove the actinic blues and the 10000K bulbs and get 2 either 8000K, 6700K, or 9325K bulbs. I personally didn't like the whiteness the 10000K gave off but its a matter of personal preference. The bulbs you have will work just fine. The blue will not benefit your plants much at all. Do not run just those in there


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Well, how hard is it to set up a simple, not too powerful, DIY CO2 system for less than $20?

Also, what should i do with these bulbs? Are they worth anything? Would they be fun to smash?:twisted: :twisted:

How much is it gonna cost me to get 4 new bulbs? Would the blue/10000k daylights create a neat view of the tank? How should i mount this thing? Is it cheaper to buy an all glass lid or get little mounting legs? I remember seeing some little "legs" at a LFS once holding up a power compact hood. I'm pretty broke right now so whatever i do it needs to be cheap.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

Im geussing the legs are cheaper and I think they look a lot better too.


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

i have a DIY co2 system on my tank and it didnt cost anything close to $20. you just need a bottle about 2 liters big(you can use a soda bottle, but i used one of those large gatorade bottles because they are more sturdy and less likely to explode/suck water out of my tank.) then i just drilled a hole in the lid, put some aquarium tubing in it, siliconed it in place and let it dry. then all you need is to set up your mixture. I just take a cup of warm water(not too hot) and disolve 1/2 teaspoon of yeast and a teaspoon of sugar in it and let it sit for about 20 minutes(you should see some bubbles commin to the top). Then i put about a little more then a cup of sugar in the gatorade bottle, poor the yeast mixture in, and fill it up with water so that there is about 3 inches of space at the top. then just put the lid on, shake it up, and you should have a steady stream of bubbles of co2 in a few hours.


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Cool. Then do i put the airline tubing into the filter box of my HOB filter? Or directly into the tank?


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

i have mine going into the tank, and then into the intake of my canister filter, im not sure how well it will work on a HOB filter because you will prolli loose some CO2 into the air because of all the surface agitation. but if its either right into the tank or into the intake of the filter, i say put it in the filter intake.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Hard to set up a successful DIY co2 system on a tank of that size (55 gallons). Anything over 30 gallons is pushing it.


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

yea, i know its not optimal on big tanks(mines a 75) but i cant afford a fancy expensive set up right now, and i figure that this is better than nothing


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## falconblack (Jun 5, 2006)

*lighting and co2*

your 10,000k bulbs and blue actinic are for reef tanks,the only bulbs you should have for plants are 5000 to 6700K that is full spectrum lighting anything abouve 9000 is useless for plants.And as far as you co2 you will have to add a diffuser to this setup or your fish will die.Too much co2 not enough oxygen in water.You only need 2 bubbles every 2 seconds or so.And you should actually have a pressurized system above 25 gallons..imo.Also at night when lights are off I usually run a power head to remove the co2 as plants do not use it at night.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

there are bulbs above 9000k that are some of the best bulbs they make for plants.... 
Add a diffuser or your fish will die?? Im not sure I understand the logic there, falconblack. Maybe you can elaborate?


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

130W of good lighting would be fine for a 55 gallon tank, in my opinion. I base this on two tanks of mine, a 10 gallon with 24W of power compact lighting which is really successful, and a 20 gallon with 30W of T8 lighting, in which I can grow a much narrow range of plants, and they don't grow very fast. The 10 gallon has 2.4W/gallon which is definitely not too much, and your proposed setup is 2.36W/gallon so if this stuff scales it won't be too much.

I would definitely replace the bulbs. The only power compact bulbs I can get my hands on over here are Interpet ones, and I like both the Triplus (tri-prosphor lamp with kind of pinkish tinge to the light) and the Daylight Plus (more balanced color, really brings out the greens of the plants). I would either go with 2 Triplus and 2 Daylight Plus, or else all daylight plus. The light color you get is too reddish in my opinion with only the Triplus, but some use that and like the effect. Your plants will grow either way.

I don't use CO2 in either tank. Too much hassle for me when my plants grow very well (in the 10 gallon tank) or OK (in the 20 gallon tank) already.

I keep debating upgrading the lighting my my 20 but haven't got around to it yet.


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

*pc lighting*

AH Supply . com.. has 5000k pc bulbs....if you want plants, that is what you need


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks for the help guys. I am gonna try to contact the guy who sold me this lamp (on ebay) and try to get him to trade me bulbs. If anyone out there on the forums is interested in some barely ever used reef lights and would be willing to trade for some plant lights, PM me.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

falconblack said:


> your 10,000k bulbs and blue actinic are for reef tanks,the only bulbs you should have for plants are 5000 to 6700K that is full spectrum lighting anything abouve 9000 is useless for plants.And as far as you co2 you will have to add a diffuser to this setup or your fish will die.Too much co2 not enough oxygen in water.You only need 2 bubbles every 2 seconds or so.And you should actually have a pressurized system above 25 gallons..imo.Also at night when lights are off I usually run a power head to remove the co2 as plants do not use it at night.



Where does this info come from? I use 9325K lams designed especially for aquatic plants with great success. And a diffusor will increase the saturation rate of co2 into a tank, not decrease it. Diffusion comes from more surface area of the co2 bubbles. smaller bubbles means more surface area means more diffusion. And with a diy setup on larger tanks you will not need to add a powerhead at night. You cannot get co2 levels up to toxic levels with DIY co2; at least not in a tank larger than 20 gallons.
10000K bulbs will grow plants just fine. I have a little experience in the matter. I do mod this forum


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Ok, so i don't have to go nuts trying to get other bulbs to replace the 10000k ones? Will just 2 of the 55w bulbs be enough to get my plants to grow?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

> 5000k pc bulbs if you want plants, that is what you need


Not really. I have 1 6700K bulb and 1 10000K bulb in my Coralife fixture on my 55g tank. I grow plants just fine. All of them look healthy. They 10000K is a little brighter, but really you can't tell a difference in the 2 from looking at the plants. I have 1 6700K bulb over my 29g and the plants thrive very nicely.
I have always heard that around 6700K is the best K rating for plants (notice I said around...not exactly). Up to 10000K is fine for plants, but over that and you get into reef K ratings.
If you can't get anything but DIY Co2, I would just skip it. I think it would be more work than its worth. Yes its better than nothing, but it won't be extremely productive.

130w is perfect for a 55g with no CO2. Its just enough light to grow most stem plants and other lower light plants. Gives you great variety.


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm down. I really wanted some kind of exotic-looking broad leaved monster plant, but i could settle for smaller broad leafed plants. I really wanted anubias nana but i can't find it anywhere. Also, i don't have 130w of light. I have 2 55w 10000k lamps but that is it, considering the blues are useless. That means i have 110w of light going into the tank. Is that enough?


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## dmarcus (Apr 13, 2006)

if you want when i come down on the 17 i can bring you a small cutting of my anubias nana (1.5 inches) but its small and youll need to wait a while before it grows but its a good start. By the way that tank i got from my grandmas attic is a 29 gallon antique its like 40 years old and is constructed with stainless steel tapered outsides rather than plastic. I just refurbished it and polished hte **** out of it its ready to go when i move into my new place ill bring some pics when i come down.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

AHsupply has great retrofits and the best reflectors one can find. For bulbs, I and my plant geeks go to 
http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/
There are a few more sources for lights as everyone can find a good sale now and then but they carry the GE 9325 (my favorite bulb) if you ever want to try something different. 8800K bulbs are nice too. Your 10000K bulbs will work fine. YOur tank will appear whitish and your reds (if you have any) wont have that "pop".

My avatar is taken under a 10000K bulb. Its also grainy because of shutter speed and white balance. I can grow plants, just cant photograph them


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

xerxeswasachump said:


> I'm down. I really wanted some kind of exotic-looking broad leaved monster plant, but i could settle for smaller broad leafed plants. I really wanted anubias nana but i can't find it anywhere. Also, i don't have 130w of light. I have 2 55w 10000k lamps but that is it, considering the blues are useless. That means i have 110w of light going into the tank. Is that enough?


Yes, 110W = 2WPG, which is enough to grow some plants (not all of them but enough to have fun with and make your tank look nice), and at that level of lighting you won't need CO2, which can save you hassle and expense.

As far as "exotic-looking broad leaved monster plant", I have some Echinodorus Ozelet that are growing in my 1.5WPG tank (the 20g) so assuming you have a good substrate you ought to be able to grow them in your 2WPG setup. They are babies from a friend who has a planted tank. His mother plant is much larger than mine, but he has more lighting and add ferts, etc. In my tank it's about 8" tall, big enough to get noticed but not big enough to take over the tank.

Oh, if you can take out the blue bulbs, it would be a good idea from an energy savings point of view: no use having that extra 110W of power burning up if it's not doing anything for your plants!

As far as anubias nana goes, you can grow them in just about anything, they are very undemanding plants, but they grow VERRRRY slowly. The problem is that they get covered in algae. I have some nerite algae-eating snails in my tank that has them and they keep them clean. You may need to algae eating animals to keep them decent looking even if you can get them.


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Well i have a SAE who could take care of the algae no problem. I also have a half fluorite substrate that seems to be working. I would rather plant bulbs than live plants, they just seem to grow better that way. Unfortunately, it is impossible to find bulbs at LFSes that are anything very interesting. I'll try to get my hands on one of those plants you mentioned. I really would like to get some to "carpet" the tank but from what i have read that requires tons of maintenance and more lighting and CO2. Is that wrong? could i have some dwarf sag or something?

Also, it would be a bad idea for me to get the other 55w spots filled with 6700k bulbs? That would be too much light right?


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

no it wouldn't be too much light ... personally I use 50/50 PC's becouse I have fish as well as plants. I'm a fish keeper that got tired of the plastic crap so I got some plants that for the most part my cichlids leave alone. (BTW 50/50 is 1 CF bulb with 1 tube of 10K and 1 tube of antic) they have other variaties now you can get half 6700 half 10K ect if you find the right store  but even with what you have it will look nice with the fish. If you are wanting to concentrate mainly on the plants I would just get 2 6700 and put with the 10K and that should give you a very nice look and make for some great photography if you have a good camera  there are several "mosses" you can get to create a "grass" effect that do well in low-mid or high light settings

unless you are going to get into the more difficult plants you should be fine with the lighting you have. Know this though ... alot of the "ebay style" lighting units aren't very efficient at getting the light "in the water" meaning that if you have a 55 watt bulb on a flat reflector you wont get near the "effective lighting" IN the tank as one with a multi angled reflector. check out AH supply's write up they did after recieving a complaint about some of their light bulbs not being as bright as they claimed from a customer http://www.ahsupply.com/Comparison.htm

pretty ... enlighting ... wouldn't you say


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## joe kool (Jan 24, 2005)

edit for dual post :shock:


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

xerxeswasachump said:


> Well i have a SAE who could take care of the algae no problem. I also have a half fluorite substrate that seems to be working. I would rather plant bulbs than live plants, they just seem to grow better that way. Unfortunately, it is impossible to find bulbs at LFSes that are anything very interesting. I'll try to get my hands on one of those plants you mentioned. I really would like to get some to "carpet" the tank but from what i have read that requires tons of maintenance and more lighting and CO2. Is that wrong? could i have some dwarf sag or something?
> 
> Also, it would be a bad idea for me to get the other 55w spots filled with 6700k bulbs? That would be too much light right?


For carpet plants, the one that works best in my 20g (1.5WPG) is indeed dwarf sag. In my 10g (2.4WPG) I have some plants that I got from a friend that seem to be Echinodorus quadricostatus var. ''magdalenensis'' (to get info about this, look it up on http://www.tropica.com/). I haven't tried it in the lower-light tank since I don't think I have enough light there, but you might try both and see which works best for you.

If you put good bulbs in the other two slots ("good" being ones that will encourage plants growth) you will have 4WPG which is a huge amount of light and makes for a tank that its much more tricky to manage. You will have to add a good amount of CO2 and dose very carefully with ferts, or else all you'll end up with is a mess of algae. For aquatic plants to grow they need a good balance of light, CO2, and ferts, but there are all sorts of algaes that can make good use of any imbalance in your system. I personally would suggest just leaving the 2 blue tubes, or removing them complely, to get used to managing a medium-light planted tank before you go into the much harder task of managing a high-light tank. 

As for the source of plants, I am very lucky in having friends that have planted tanks, so I often get plants free from them, but other than that by far the best source is mail order. I live in the UK and presumably you live in the US so I can't suggest any mail-order places for you, but Simpte can recommend some.


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Yeah, the cheapest PC bulbs i could find online were over $20, which puts them out of my budget. I'll just have to make due with the 10000k bulbs i have. Which is fine. 
With the dwarf sag, do you have to replant every little shoot? Because that would be a pain in my ass considering how deep my 55 gallon is. I would like something that will grow on its own. 
My old java moss that i have had since i start with this hobby almost a year ago (the first plant ever) seems to be growing pretty nicely. I might just use that. 
Unfortunately, i am usually the guy my friends get their free plants from! 
My best free source for plants has been state parks and local ponds, i have found some pretty cool stuff there. Lots of native hornwort. There is an amazing LFS near where i work, i'll swing by there on Friday and post what i get.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 4, 2005)

My dwarf sag usually sends its runner under the gravel so all i do is watch it grow  I do use eco-complete though, so that may influence it a little.


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

Well, i have gravel and fluorite, would that provide enough space for runner to grow?


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## CaysE (May 21, 2006)

I think nobody has answered one of your questions that I'm interested in. Will the increase in light from ~75W to 110W be harmful to the fish?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

No, the added lighting will not hurt the fish. I have 260 watts over a 75 gallon tank. No harmful effects. I know people who have 5 wpg over their tanks. As long as there is a cycle of light and dark, fish are fine.


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## CaysE (May 21, 2006)

I don't mean the fact that there's more lighting, I mean the sudden jump.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

They should be fine. PC bulbs don't fire at full capacity when they first come on. Usually takes about 20 min to reach peak intensity. No worries


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## xerxeswasachump (Mar 29, 2006)

CaysE said:


> I don't mean the fact that there's more lighting, I mean the sudden jump.


The fish seem to be alright. I had a massive brown algae bloom on the glass, so i got some otos, they seem to be doing a good job. Unfortunately, my SAE hasn't been helping that much. Instead, he has been killing and eating ghost shrimp, which wouldn't be that big a deal except that they are supposed to be food for the eel, who has made himself quite scarce.
What up fellow Jerseyan! Hey dude, what are your favorite fish stores in Jersey?


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## CaysE (May 21, 2006)

Absolutely Fish in Clifton! Awesome place and tons of selection.


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