# Newwww. Trying to figure this out.



## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Ok, so I have a 10 gallon tank. I was not aware of fishless-cycling before purchasing and deciding to start my tank nor was I aware of the "nitrogen-cycle" at all. I have researched the crap out of it on here and in other places to kind of try and figure out what I should do but I figure I would let everyone know my situation and see what advice I can get. On everything, not just the cycle. 

So my tank is 10 gallons, filter & heater. I've got gravel, two fake plants, two hidey-hole decorations and a bubbler that I have connected to a small 5 - 15 gallon air pump. I've stuck a few Aponegeton bulbs down in the gravel (don't really care whether they grow or not, I'm just hoping at some point to replace the fake plants with live ones). I also have a digital thermometer and an ammonia alerter in my tank. 

So I started with 2 male Fancy Guppies, 3 Neon Tetras, 2 Peppered Cory Catfish & a snail. The only fish I have had problems with are the Guppies & the Tetras. The Catfish don't seem to ever really get that stressed out & the only time they have, they settled down quickly. I have lost 1 Guppy & 1 Tetra. Probably mostly to new tank syndrome / change in environment. My one Guppy that I have now, is extremely high stress level. He is only calm about 50% of the time & anytime I do a mild water change he freaks out & stays stressed out for 30 - 60 minutes at a time, if not longer. 

As for cycling. I have added no chemicals to my tank with the exception of de-chlorinator / water conditioner when adding new water & a little bit of salt for the Guppies. The fish are in the tank going on day 3, although I had the tank running & filtering with no fish 2 days prior to adding them. Last night I noticed my first small Ammonia spike on my ammonia-alert indicator. So today I did about a 10% water change & the level seems to be remaining about the same (for now). I tried to keep the water around the same temperature that I keep the tank (which is around 77 - 80). I try to never let it fall under 76 or 77 or go above 80. I was told to keep it a little warmer like this for tropical fish? Some of the fish like to hang out next to the heater when it is running. Any advice on temperature gladly accepted. The PH in my tank is also extremely high and was the same PH as when I first started. (I did not have a PH test kit prior to starting my tank, so I don't know what the PH was before fish or when they were added but my first test was yesterday morning & after the Ammonia spike today I tested it again). My PH rests around 7.6 with no changes up or down. Any advice on PH will also be gladly accepted. 

My plan for the nitrogen-cycle as I don't want to kill my tank was to do small water changes daily. Changing out around 20% of the water at a time. Let me know if I should do more than that? . . . Any advice on anything would be awesome. On the cycle, temperature, PH, fish, plants, ANYTHING, etc. I would really appreciate it. This is my very fish tank & I have had so many troubles & have been very ill-informed by the retards at Corporate pet-stores & have switched all of my business to my local Aquarium store. They rock! 

~ Christine


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Well all I can add is what i know works for my Guppy . So here is what works for me , hope it helps ! 
PH 6.8 - 7.6 (7.0 - 7.2 does well with my guppies)
Temp 76* -78* ( 80* - 82* for the fry )
I have hard water and add one teaspoon of salt( aquarium salt not table salt ) per 5 gallon .
I feed twice a day small amounts that can be ate in 3 to 5 min. with a varied diet of blood warms , brine shrimp , fresh veggies like boiled peas and cucumber and tropical flakes . And also I seem to have healthier fish when they have more hiding places like more plants or decorations but still give them ample room to swim in the middle of the tank .

Good luck with your new tank !


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah I bought a more expensive brand of some Livebearer Aquarium Salt! Maybe I should turn my temp. down a little bit though! =/ 

The only reason I was worried about the PH is it's a community tank. And I know the Guppies do well in 7.0 - 7.6 but I have some catfish & some tetras that are supposed to prefer lower PH's. Not to mention, my tank is not done cycling as far as I can tell. 

I am also worried because I read somewhere on here that a 1-cartridged filter can heavily affect your cycling because every 4 - 6 weeks when you have to change the cartridge, you throw away a heavy amount of your bacteria . . . Ay yay yay. I have an Aqueon filter. Smaller size, it's for a 10 gal. as that's what I have. 

This whole process has been a HUGE learning experience, a tad stressful & I think I've made like 6 trips to the aquarium store in 1 day! BUT I am determined, I love aquariums & fish & I am motivated to learn as much as possible. Eventually I'd like to get the hang of all this, be very knowledgeable & maybe once I move out of my parent's house, get some more tanks, as well as upgrade to a larger one!


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

I also have Tetra in the same tap water as the Guppies with the ph of around 7.0 . and I also use the cartridge type filters but I don't replace/change them I just rinse them out in old tank water with every water change . when I have to replace a filter cartridge is when it wont let water flow through it anymore even after its been rinsed or it starts to fall apart lol . And in my 55 gallon tank i don't use the filter cartridges at all I use polly fill or filter fiber ( depending where you get it from) and change only part of it out at a time so I keep a good stock of the bacteria .


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

How do I go about lowering the PH of my tank? Is it ok to do so if my tank hasn't fully cycled yet? I was told I shouldn't be adding anything to my water with the exception of de-chlorinator during my water changes and that the PH usually spikes during the cycle and then drops. 

I really don't want to mess anything up with my cycle. I have a friend I work with who used to work at Petco & he told me that the cycle for a 10 gal. usually only takes a couple of days. It's been 3 days. I was going to wait 2 or 3 more, then take my water to get my levels tested. Until then, I am going to keep doing daily water changes to reduce the amount of ammonia in my water without adding any chemicals. 

I have a PH test kit & I have an ammonia-alert, which tells me the range of my ammonia level but not an exact amount & right now it's there but fairly low. I guess in the next while I am going to have to get a tests for exact ammonia amount, NO2 & NO3. But there isn't a whole lot I can do at the moment. 

My aquarium has made me go broke . . . Hahaha.


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Also another trick I use with the filter cartridges is when I have to change out for a new one I place the old one in the tank for a few days to help seed the new cartridge . 
What kind of Tetra do you have ? You can see what kind I have from the bottom of my posts here and with the Tetra I have ( if you acclimate slowly) they can handle PH from around 5.8 -8.5 but I would recommend a Ph in the range of 6.8 - 7.2( from my experience)


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

first thing i would say is dont worry about ph at this point in time u got bigger things to worry about. adjusting ph is for the more advanced hobbiest. unless you have a completely unsuitable ph for the fish you are trying to keep (which i dont think u do) then u will be fine. best thing u could do is go to petsmart/petco take the fish in that u got tell them u want a refund/store credit because u were missinformed that way u can do a fishless cycle its going to be easier faster and cost less money and time. then u can use that store credit for products. save ur money to buy fish from your lfs. wether or not u keep the fish get urself some safe start or seachem stability this will help your tank cycle faster. get some prime its some of the best dechlorinator out on the market it also detoxifies ammonia/nitrite/nitrates. making the water safer for the fish in the mean time. if u keep the fish continue to do 20% daily water changes and treat with a higher than recommended dose of prime about 2-3 times as much as the bottle says but only for the ammount of water u are replacing ( dont do the water changes if you get rid of the fish) if u get rid of the fish just do the recommended dose of prime. doing daily water changes and dosing with prime may make ur tank cycle slower but its going to be safer for the fish and ur less likely to lose them. IMO ammonia alerts are kinda useless they can be pretty inacurate. get urself a liquid test kit like a freshwater master test kit by api and keep testing your water daily and u wont need the ammonia alert. when the tank is done cycling u will be fine only testing every so often. eventually u will know ur fishes behavior well enough u will only have to test when something seems wrong or a fish randomly dies. but that will take a while before ur able to reckognize the signs that something is wrong with ur water. if u keep the fish it can be so much work and cause so many problems that it can be very discouraging. the stress of the bad water quality can cause your fish to break out with disease and can just take a lot of effort to get everything right. getting rid of them may suck but it can be the best thing for u and the fish. also be careful with salt make sure u are never adding more than u are taking out and keep evaporation in mind because salt doesnt evaporate. a 10 gallon can be pretty easy to screw up salt levels. and be careful with salt guppys may like it but it can be harmful to other fish and irritate and stress them out especially scaleless fish. if u get store credit i would use it to get urself some high quality foods like omega one or hikari. also get some frozen brine shrimp every fish goes crazy for it they will be happier healthier and have better color. just make sure ur not over feeding 10 gallons is easy to overfeed and polute the tank causing a spike.


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

I use a product called MYDOR ph test and adjust and I use Quick Dip test strips for ammonia and a 5 in 1 quick dip test strip for nitrate , nitrite ,hardness, alkalinity and ph .
And your friend is wright I wouldn't add add anything till after the cycle is done and some times that can take up to 7 to 10 days ( not always that long some times more some times less depending on the tank/fish/plants/water ) after the levels come in check you can slowly start to change the ph levels but if I was you , your fish are already in the water and are getting pretty used to the levels its at now I wouldn't change anything in it and that way you wont have to spend out a lot to change the ph every time you do a water change like I do lol ( I regret doing that in my 55 gallon and 10 buck for the PH test and adjust kit that treats about 200 gallon don't last long


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

3 days for a cycle is highly unrealistic when u arnt doing anything to speed the cycle. yes in larger tanks it takes longer but even in a tank as small as a 10 gallon it can take weeks to months if u arnt feeding the tank or adding any bacteria yourself. the absolute fastest way to cycle a tank is to take a pre used filter bag from an already established tank and throw it in your filter let it run for an hour or two and boom your tank is cycled. using bacteria products can make it cycle in days or sometimes they seem to just not work at all. but i can tell u doing fish in cycle like i said will take much much longer. and noah the dip strips work but they are also notorious for false posotives/negatives they are very easy to contaminate even a drop of sweat off your hand can make the test wrong. also they arnt worth the money u only get 30 test for $30 and the expire fast and are no longer food. with liquid u get 800 tests for around $35 and they last 3-4 years before they go bad.


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

I pay 5 bucks for the test strips and they have 50 test strips in each bottle . The master test kits around here run anywhere from $125 -$175 and do the same as the test strips IMO. I always use rubber surgical gloves when testing just to be on the safe side I use 2 different dip test bottles/batches .


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

noahhill said:


> I pay 5 bucks for the test strips and they have 50 test strips in each bottle . The master test kits around here run anywhere from $125 -$175 and do the same as the test strips IMO. I always use rubber surgical gloves when testing just to be on the safe side I use 2 different dip test bottles/batches .


WHAT? where are u from that it costs that much?


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Noah - They are Neon Tetras. 

I don't have the money right now for all these different testers. I have already exhausted any funds I had on the tank & won't have anything else until next Friday. I have spent well over $300 in the past week and a half. 

And I'm worried one of my Cory Cats is starting to seem sickly. 

My water looks a little bit cloudy too. 

As for returning the fish, I have nothing to put them in & I don't even have any of my receipts or anything for them . . . So I don't know what to do about that.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

All of this is making meeeee feeeeel siiiiickly . . .


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

even if u lose money donating them back it will still be better than losing money on them dying. neons and corys dont take to a nitrogen cycle to well. cloudiness can be from the bacteria cycle starting. idk how u spent $300 on a 10 gallon tho thats pretty steep.... did u buy a stand with the tank or something?


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

No no no. That wasn't just the tank. That was everything. That was my tank kit, all the fish, fish food, all of the water treatments & testers & thermometers & gravel & decorations & my air pump & tubing & salt and EVERYTHING.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> No no no. That wasn't just the tank. That was everything. That was my tank kit, all the fish, fish food, all of the water treatments & testers & thermometers & gravel & decorations & my air pump & tubing & salt and EVERYTHING.


no i understand that just dont understand how it could be so much....


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I don't know, it added up really quickly. There was one day that I went to the Aquarium store like 3 or 4 different times & I ended up spending like $25 every-time I was in there on different things. 

I am frustrated . . . and I hope no one is dead when I get home . . .


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Revo - I live in southwestern Va . pet supplies dont come cheap here ( walmart, petsmart and stores like that ) I have to order most of my supplies online .
I'm with Revo on the cloudiness being the bacteria cycle starting. 
As for the Neons I have been told there terry delicate but I have 9 and kept them in a 2.5 gallon tank for 2 weeks ( quarantined ) and now living nicely with my Guppies and Ottos . my Tank cycles never really lasted longer then 2 weeks if that , maybe I got lucky .
My first tank was a 5 gallon and I spent around $250 on it will all the supplies as well .


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Well, have either of you nitrogen cycled with fish in the tank? And if so, what were your experiences? Did everyone die?


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Yes I have done a cycle with and with out fish and IMO with fish it went a little slower and all the fish I had at the time lived through it with no probs . 
If you have any friends or family that keep fish ask them to give you a old filter cartridge and add that to your tank that will help speed up the cycle ( maybe thats why I have fast cycles in my tanks because I add the old cartridge from a up and running tank )


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Hmm. I don't know anyone with a fish tank. Unfortunately. Or else I would totally ask to skeaze someone else's old cartridge. 

Well, I will try it I guess. I will just run through my daily water changes & hope for the best! 

 

Thanks both of you for all of your information, btw. It's much appreciated!


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Your very welcome ! I wish we was located closer I would send you one of my old filter cartridges lol


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah your really far. Those little bacterias would be so dead by the time that filter made it down here. OVERNIGHT SHIPPING!!! Haha, I'm just kidding. My grandparents both used to be hardcore fish hobbyists. But neither of them have fish anymore. They have a pond but no more fish in the house. They used to keep giant tanks. Freshwater & saltwater. However, my grandma is a bit of tard who knows nothing about nitrogen-cycling . . . I am really surprised she actually kept fish alive . . .


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

And also. I have a blue mystery snail. Does anyone know what snails eat? 
I wasn't sure, so I have just been dropping in little bits of algae wafer. It has been eating that & I have even seen it eat bits of fallen Tropical Flake. HAHAHA. I guess snails aren't picky. 

The snail is one of the most active things in my tank. He makes a lot of laps & he really enjoys the decor / hidey holes. He climbs EVERYTHING.


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Lol yeah all you would get would be a useless cartridge lol . as for the snails I wouldn't say I've never kept any before but it would seam as long as its eating algae wafers and flake feed there is nothing to worry about .


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Okey doke. This whole thing has been a learning experience and I am already starting to develop preferences and realize things I wish I would have been doing from the very beginning. 

As soon as I have this whole fish-keeping / cycling thing down, I want to eventually (I am talking like 6+ months more or longer from now) would like to either upgrade my 10 gallon or just get another tank. I figure having 2 tanks would eventually make cycling & changing filter cartridges much easier. 

Annnd I have already decided that the next time I am getting sand substrate. Screw gravel. 

As for fish. I really want Rasboras. I don't know what it is about them. But they caught my eye at the store and I think eventually I'd like to have some. 

AND CATFISH!!!!! I am developing a definite Catfish crush! The peppered Cory's are my favorite thing in my tank!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

noahhill said:


> Yes I have done a cycle with and with out fish and IMO with fish it went a little slower and all the fish I had at the time lived through it with no probs .
> If you have any friends or family that keep fish ask them to give you a old filter cartridge and add that to your tank that will help speed up the cycle ( maybe thats why I have fast cycles in my tanks because I add the old cartridge from a up and running tank )


using old cartridges is why it went so fast and why all the fish survived. using an already established cartirdge i actually wouldn't even call cycle because the process of cycling involves building that bacteria colony and well when u already have all the bacteria you kind of eliminate the need to cycle.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> Annnd I have already decided that the next time I am getting sand substrate. Screw gravel.
> 
> As for fish. I really want Rasboras. I don't know what it is about them. But they caught my eye at the store and I think eventually I'd like to have some.
> 
> AND CATFISH!!!!! I am developing a definite Catfish crush! The peppered Cory's are my favorite thing in my tank!


before doing sand make sure to do ur research and learn how to properly clean sand and the risks of having it if not properly maintaned. when u say rasboras im assuming it was the harlequin rasboras and yes they are awesome i have about 12 in my 55 and they form a very tight school and its basically like a cloud of them going back and forth through the tank. as for the corys i love those to i have 12 of those also. check out the sterbaes they are my favorite those and the skunks.


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## noahhill (Jul 31, 2010)

Revolution1221 said:


> using old cartridges is why it went so fast and why all the fish survived. using an already established cartirdge i actually wouldn't even call cycle because the process of cycling involves building that bacteria colony and well when u already have all the bacteria you kind of eliminate the need to cycle.




Now that I think about it you are right ! its not really a cycle , more like a transplant lol.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

noahhill said:


> Now that I think about it you are right ! its not really a cycle , more like a transplant lol.


lol yeah pretty much. yeah it may have taken you 2 weeks to cycle the tank because u didn't have enough bacteria for the size tank or the amount of fish you had and it just took a little for the bacteria to catch up. because having just a little bacteria takes a long time to multiply then saying have lots of it. it doesn't take very long for it to catch up its that initial bacteria growth that can take a while to start. either that or u just didn't notice it was cycled already


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

Your pH of 7.6 should be fine and I wouldn't mess with it. The only problem with a higher pH while cycling is that the higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia is at lower levels. So in a tank with a pH of 7.0, the fish will be able to tolerate a higher level of ammonia than in a tank with a pH of 8.0.

I don't know a lot about guppies, but I don't think they need salt in the water. They are freshwater fish. I also don't think neon tetras and cory's are salt tolerant so I wouldn't add it, unless the guppy experts here think it is imperative. 

Prime is a great water conditioner (and inexpensive) because it will help lower the available ammonia while the tank cycles. I don't know if the tetra brand does that.

I use the API freshwater master test kit. It uses liquid reagents, which are more accurate than the test strips. It probably costs around $30 at a pet store, but you can purchase it for less online.

When I lost the cycle on my tank, I had to re-cycle with the fish in. I have an extremely high pH (8.4) and did 50% water changes daily. Small water changes are often not enough to stave off the toxic ammonia as it climbs, especially if you have sensitive fish like neon tetras.

If you have a single cartridge filter, I would just rinse it well weekly in used aquarium water until it falls apart or clogs. That way you won't lose the bacteria that is growing in it. When you have more money, I'd invest in an aquaclear 20 or 30 filter for your tank. They are pretty inexpensive, work great and have separate media (sponge, carbon, biomax) so you don't run into a situation where you would lose all of your bacteria if you find you need to replace the sponge.


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## adpierin11 (Oct 5, 2010)

I have never known a cycle to take between 7-10 days, more like 5+ weeks even with established bacteria from another tank (more like 2 weeks with that one). 
And I also have a 10g which is in a fishless cycle right now, and I only paid probably 80 bucks with an hob filter, substrate, heater, background and tank. I could never spend $250 on a 5g, and I spent $400 including fish on a 40g with stand.and everything I needed. You just need to search on craigslist or wherever to find a good deal.
Anyway back to the real issue, like Revolution said earlier DO NOT WORRY about the PH right now. I ever hardly worry about it. Fish would rather have a stable pH than one that fluctuates!
This happened to me quite some time ago when I bought a 40g and added 3 green spotted puffers in the tank. I ultimately lost all 3 of my gsp's and learned real quick about cycling a tank. It happens all the time unfortunately to the new hobbyist.
With a "fish in cycle" it's going to go slow but doing water changes everyday is a must. I would up the wc to 50% instead of 20% everyday but still only once a day. 20% once a week once the cycle is complete is great but since you have fish going through a cycle you need to do a higher percentage. Even a low reading for ammonia like a .25 is serious danger to the fish.
Be very vigilante when feeding. You don't want to add towards the waste by leaving uneaten food in the substrate.
If you can take them back I would suggest it, but if you cannot just keep doing water changes everyday. Luckily you have a smaller tank and taking out 5 gallons a day is pretty easy even with a siphon that you empty into a bucket. Water changes are going to be your best friend for now!


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Well this morning I woke up to some unhappy Tetras & an unhappy Guppy. I changed my water previously to reading this. And I did a little more than usual. More around 30 - 40% as my tank was looking really cloudy & the fish were upset. I need to go get another water conditioner as I don't think the one I have helps with ammonia. Or at least it makes no mention of it on the bottle. I use Aqueon Water Conditioner for those wondering or who have any info on it. But I think I'll go try to find the one you're talking about. The fish seem happier after the water change & the water is more clear. I will plan on doing the 50% tomorrow as I have already done my water change for my day. But everyday hereafter I'll do a 50%.


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## adpierin11 (Oct 5, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> I will plan on doing the 50% tomorrow as I have already done my water change for my day. But everyday hereafter I'll do a 50%.


Great! It will definitely help the fish in the tank. Stick with it, it may get frustrating after awhile of doing the water changes but it's what you have to do!
Good luck!!


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh. Ok. I just looked up the water conditioner I am using and this is what I says: 

"Instantly neutralizes chlorine and chloramines typically found in tap water, making it safe for fish. Helps reduce stress in fish as they become familiar with their new environment. Aids in restoring the natural slime coat to skin and gills, which can be worn away from netting and transporting fish. Detoxifies heavy metals, ammonia and other elements released from fish waste." 

So I am assuming it does the same thing as the Prime. Although, it seems like every single person I have talked to on here uses Seachem Prime, so as soon as I am able, I'll probably replace my current conditioner with that one. But for now, since I am flat broke, that's the one I'll be using. Might as well use it up anyways. 

So as of next Friday, I'll be investing in some Seachem Prime & DEFINITELY the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I saw that they had it at Petco but it didn't even cross my mind to get one, as at the time, I knew nothing of nitrogen-cycles. 

WHY DON'T THE PEOPLE AT THE PET STORE WARN YOU ABOUT THIS KIND OF THING?! 

I think it's imperative. I also think that they should be required to share this kind of information with new fish owners . . . Maybe I'll complain . . . Hahahaha.


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## adpierin11 (Oct 5, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> WHY DON'T THE PEOPLE AT THE PET STORE WARN YOU ABOUT THIS KIND OF THING?!


In my first experience I went through the exact same thing, and in turn was doing 20 gallons a day of water changes, plus mixing in salt because green spotted puffers needed it. It was an absolute horrible experience. And still lost my gsp's.

Luckily where I live now they know a lot of info, but the one thing I haven't seen anyone do is ask, "Is the tank cycled?" I do not know why they don't ask that question. They obviously have experience and know what it entails when starting a new tank. 
I've seen a fish store sell a $100 dollar fish and not ask one question to the purchaser.....
Sometimes people just want to make money or don't want to lose their job due to sales being slower, or possibly just don't care.... IDK.....


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

the problem i see with the stuff u currently have is the slime coat which when used at the wrong time can be harmfull to fish. slime coat covers a fish to protect it from disease and other things. when a fish gets stressed it sheds its slime coat. well when a fish isn't stressed your basically just poring slime coat into the tank which is actually harmfull to fish. using slime coat is helpful when transfering a fish like it says and it keeps from from contracting a disease durring the transfer. which is actually one of the main reasons u cant keep goldfish with tropicals. in warmer water goldfish get stressed and constantly secret slime coat. they seem to be more tollerant of it than more delicate tropical fish.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

adpierin11 said:


> In my first experience I went through the exact same thing, and in turn was doing 20 gallons a day of water changes, plus mixing in salt because green spotted puffers needed it. It was an absolute horrible experience. And still lost my gsp's.
> 
> Luckily where I live now they know a lot of info, but the one thing I haven't seen anyone do is ask, "Is the tank cycled?" I do not know why they don't ask that question. They obviously have experience and know what it entails when starting a new tank.
> I've seen a fish store sell a $100 dollar fish and not ask one question to the purchaser.....
> Sometimes people just want to make money or don't want to lose their job due to sales being slower, or possibly just don't care.... IDK.....


yeah im glad i work at a pet store where we are aloud to refuse sale. ive learned that a lot of the time when you properly inform someone of a bad desision they are about to make or let them know what they need to do typically u can make better sales or just sell them on something else. if someone comes in wants to buy just a lizard and throw it in a cage your and you allow that your not going to make nearly as much money as you would off someone who would buy all the lighting the biggest tank they can all the suppliments they need and everything else. so IME its better to hold off and not sell that lizard and wait for the person to come around that will make that big sale.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Greeeeat. 

So I got home from a long day at work to see a severely clouded tank. My Guppy was laying at the bottom of the tank (strange you know, since Guppies are always at the top). Laying on the gravel & appeared to be "breathing" really heavily. One of my Tetras has turned white / see-thru. He has lost utterly all color. More so than how their colors change when they are resting at night. 

So I just got done scrambling about and doing a 50% water change at midnight. Woop-dee-doo. I spilled water all over my carpet in the process & I dosed it pretty heavily with water conditioner. 

As for the slime coat thing, I read the same thing on the Seachem Prime info. And another one too. So I think all / most Water Conditioners do this. 

On top of this, I need to find someone to borrow $10 from because I am flat broke & almost out of water-conditioner. 

I really will be surprised if any fish can live through this . . . I don't know how any of you have had fish live through a cycle before . . . This is hell on me & I don't even want to know how bad the poor fish feel! ): 

On the plus side, after that water change, my water is a lot less clouded. But I don't know if I want to know how it's going to look after tomorrow. I have a full day with math class in the morning & then work all evening.


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## Hibiscus (Apr 21, 2010)

I used to work at PetSmart in Aquatics. Do NOT get your fish advice from there. Someone mentioned that PS employees should know about cycling and warn the customer. We didn't learn the first thing about cycling. We were taught to tell customers to setup the aquarium and let it run for 24 hours before adding fish. Almost all of the training we got was on catching and bagging fish, telling the customer not to get too many, what fish will kill each other, and not to add too many at once. The rest of the time we gravel-vacced the tanks, changed betta water, caught crickets, fed, and pulled deads. Pulling deads took a while because there were SO many. 150-200 a day that needed taken out. You were required to catalog every dead fish so they could get credit for them. PS tanks are set up were all goldfish tanks run on the same water (think a big tank with dividers) and all tropical ran on the same water. The water was cycled through every tank in the system. You could have a sick silver dollar tank on one side of aquatics and have it spread to every tropical tank. Overall not the best place to buy fish, and one of the worst to get advice. Only place I found that is worst for advice is Wal-mart. Few examples- they had a batch of healthy looking corycats. I asked for 2. She bagged them as plecos! They look nothing like plecos. The lady then argued with me that since she works in the fish section, she obviously knows more than me. I was able to knock her off her mighty train really quick with I pointed out the pictures of each on the tags. They were wanting $7.99 for a pleco, no way was I paying that for a cory. Right after she correctly bagged mine, she sold a family with a 2 gallon bowl 6 goldfish and 2 tiger barbs. Ay Ay Ay! I never buy from there anymore, no matter how healthy they look. I try not to go to the LFS, either, as they sell tattooed fish. Mostly mollies that have been tattooed with hearts, christmas trees, etc.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Well I like my local fish store as the guy who runs it is really against any of that tattooing / coloring them with dye, etc. All that crap. He thinks it's disgusting and wrong. 

I guess I got lucky in finding the fish store by me. They just opened up and the two guys who own / run it are both extreme fish hobbyists with their own multitude of tanks at home!  They are both passionate & filled with information. Unfortunately, I found my local fish store a wee bit too late. 

The funny thing about Petsmart is that there is an entire information page on the Nitrogen cycle on their website. I am just saying, they need to change that & should start requiring more training / background knowledge for the people who will be working in that department.


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## Hibiscus (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, I wasn't trying to discourage you from buying at your LFS, just giving reasons why I don't shop at mine. I agree, PetSmart needs to seriously up there training. I spent 3 days learning where products were in the store so that I could direct customers to them and going on "scavenger hunts" and playing "meet the other employees". How much time did I get on cycling, PROPER fish care, etc? None. Most of the employees are there because its a job that pays. Not one of the people that worked there in aquatics had fish of their own.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

put it this way i applied at petsmart and petco to work in the animal department before i got my job at the lfs here. i listed with them all my animal experience and how ive kept animals all my life and i did a project for the usgs on reptiles and amphibians which they used out on their hiking trails. and i was turned down because of lack of sales experience because i only had like a half a year in sales prior. after that when i got my job here i never filled out an app. the employee who was leaving and i took his place told the boss yeah i know this guy that comes in here who is always comming in here asking questions learning new things and really knows a lot. so i sat down with the boss told him my experience and some of the things i know and was instantly hired on the spot alls i had to do was fill out my tax papers i was never once asked about sales experience.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I was terrified that my fish tank was going to look like hell when I got home. My last water change was at midnight last night & the tank seems to fog up extremely quickly. But after a full day of not seeing my tank. I'm got home around 9:20 PM & the tank looks exactly as it did when I did my water change last night. Even after being fed. Surprising? Yes! 

Maybe my ammonia is going down? I won't know my levels till Friday. That's when I'll be investing in the API Master Kit. 

I don't know. I am about to do a 30% water change and since I am on the last of my water conditioner, I am getting Seachem Prime tomorrow!


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

You said you were almost out of conditioner? Didn't you just set this tank up? Even with doing daily water changes you should not have gone through an entire bottle. Are you sure you are adding the proper amount?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

pinetree said:


> You said you were almost out of conditioner? Didn't you just set this tank up? Even with doing daily water changes you should not have gone through an entire bottle. Are you sure you are adding the proper amount?


well if you get a small bottle u can go through it pretty quick. one capfull per 10 gallons usually use a little bit more atleast i do.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Some of the products are mainly water and you go through them fast. I use an eye-dropper and Prime partly because 0.5mL = 5 gallons. It costs twice as much as the store brand, but I use 1/10-1/5 the dose.

You can safely OD a dechlor like Prime to about 5X recommended, but be careful about overdosing any conditioner that claims anything about the slime coat. It will either adds slime to the water or irritates the fish into making more slime, so you don't want extra.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I have a teeny tiny bottle of conditioner. Hahaha. It's like a 2 oz. bottle & I still have around a 1/3 of the bottle left.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

But before I go to work I am actually about to leave to pick up a bottle of Seachem Prime!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

yeah i was reading the bottle of prime and some other conditioners and prime says something like when a fish loses its slime coat it encourages the regrowth of slime coat but the other conditioners say contains synthetic slime coat so i think it is different and safer.


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## sbetsy (Apr 6, 2010)

Has anyone talked to you about Seachem Stability? It can really help with a fish-in cycle. I sympathize you over this stress. I had a rough start too and got crap info from Petsmart. I was able to keep most of my fish alive during cycling but they arrived with Ich and that was a disaster too.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

The water in my tank has gotten EXTREMELY clear. As clear as the first time I put water in the tank at all . . . But I still don't know what any of my levels are, so I am still doing water changes until I can get my master test kit on Friday. 

Unfortunately, I didn't remember it was Sunday. So my LFS wasn't open. I'll be getting Seachem Prime tomorrow instead. 

@sbetsy: No, I have not heard of Seachem Stability. What is it? And also, what is ICH?


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I have only had 2 fish die since the beginnings of my tank. The first was the guppy, who was showing signs of swim bladder. He was fine, I went to the movies, came home & he was doing barrel rolls in the tank, he would always land upside down, then finally floated to the bottom of the tank, laid down in the corner & died. 

The second fish to go was a Neon Tetra. No clue what was up with that one. He was floating almost completely vertically? Like his bottom end was weighed down. And he wasn't schooling with the other Tetras. Then one morning I woke up & he was fine, swimming with the other ones, seemed better, left for awhile, came home & he was dead & attached to the filter. He had no discoloration at all. His colors were fine & there were no spots or patches or fading of color . . . 

I am worried about Tetra disease. And not knowing a whole lot about fish doesn't help. 

So if anyone knows what could have killed those two fish, please let me know. I am hoping they were in relation to stress / environment change / previous illness & that they haven't spread anything to the rest of my tank. It has been 4 or 5 days since a fish has died & I haven't noticed anything weird with any of the other fish but you never know. 

OH and one other thing. One of my peppered Cory's coloring has gotten darker. I tried looking it up & I couldn't find anything other than that sometimes they change color when they are stressed out?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> The water in my tank has gotten EXTREMELY clear. As clear as the first time I put water in the tank at all . . . But I still don't know what any of my levels are, so I am still doing water changes until I can get my master test kit on Friday.
> 
> Unfortunately, I didn't remember it was Sunday. So my LFS wasn't open. I'll be getting Seachem Prime tomorrow instead.
> 
> @sbetsy: No, I have not heard of Seachem Stability. What is it? And also, what is ICH?


i believe i mentioned the stability in my first post. it is benificial bacteria and can help speed your cycle up much faster same with safe start. also your fish sound like they died from new tank syndrom or from your tank not being cycled. just keep an eye on the other fish and make sure there is nothing wrong with them because it could be a disease but if no one else is showing symptoms you may be in the clear. also yes color change can be do to stress but like i said keep an eye on them just to be sure if you see any fish looking or acting abnormaly let us know.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Okey dokey. Shall do. You guys are super helpful. My water has been super clear & the fish seem to be doing pretty good for the time being, I can't wait to test my levels on Friday. I did a 30% water change today when I got home from work.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Random but can you paint a bedroom that has a tropical fish tank in it? 

If for example, it would be easier to just move the tank out of the way then to move it out of the room all-together. 

Do the fumes affect the tank? . . .


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

That is probably a stupid question but I figured I'd just ask you guys.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

idk if it would be a problem or not but it reminds me of a story. a guy who owns another pet store here in town was telling me about a friend of his who hired some painters to come over and well they didnt cover the tank and they dropped an entire gallon of paint in his big saltwater tank that had about $10,000 invested into it.


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

I just painted the entire inside of my house and my fish were fine. I did use the low VOC paint - supposed to have weaker fumes. Just make sure you cover the tank with a thin plastic drop cloth while you're painting near or above it.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

OHMYGOD. That poor guy & those poor fish! I would have them finish the rest for free & maybe even take them to court for not being careful. Excuse my language but F***KERS! That's so terrible! ): 

Ok, so update. Today I did about a 40% water change. I bought both Seachem Prime & Seachem Stability. So I put in the recommended dose of both with my water change. My Guppy is getting used to the daily water changes. He used to freak out everytime I would change the water & now he could care less . . . 

How much do gravel vacuums normally run? . . . Does anyone know? I just a little one.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Also, I just found my AWESOME local fish-store on Facebook!  
I am there like once a week! Haha. 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rio-R...-Rancho-NM/Riverside-Aquarium/132282823471583


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

10 gallon tank right? it will run u about $10 if im not mistaken. dont get one of the super tiny ones because they take FOREVER to drain even 5 gallons and the tube is so narrow it plugs up every time u stick it in the gravel. get one that is slightly bigger just make sure u dont get one that is too big.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh well that's not bad at all. Pretty cheap! I will have to check out what kinds are available near me! 

Are guppies schooling fish?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> Oh well that's not bad at all. Pretty cheap! I will have to check out what kinds are available near me!
> 
> Are guppies schooling fish?


guppies arnt neccisarily schooling fish but they dont mind company. just watch out a lot of fish love to chew on their big flashy tails. they are also sexual harassers (i call them rape fish) and will relentlessly chase the females to mate and sometimes even other fish.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

BAHAHAHA. Well the only fish I have are Neon Tetras & Peppered Cory's. He doesn't really seem to bother them . . . I had 3 Tetras (but 1 died), so I have 2, which sucks. I heard they are supposed to be kept in odd #'s & I understand why. They always get separated & just don't know what to do with themselves. So maybe after my tank is figured out, I'll get them another friend to school with. Sometimes the Guppy likes to dive between the two of them & they get really disoriented. Other than that, he doesn't bother my other fish much. 

I don't want to get a female because I really don't want to run the risk of fry. I'm too beginner. I don't have another tank & I don't think I could handle it. Hahaha. So I'd probably stick with another male if I did get another one. I read somewhere that since Male Guppies are so sex-driven, if there are no females, the weakest male(s) turns female?


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

BAHAHA. I just realized that my status went from "Junior Member" to "Fishy Member". Don't really know what that means but I like it!  

Plans for my fishy future: 
- Upgrading to a 20+ Gal. Eveeeeentually! <3 
- Getting a better filter upon upgrade . . . 
- Changing substrates upon upgrading tanks. I have some really crappy gravel & I feel bad for my Cory Cats. 
- A Delta or a Dragon Scale Betta. I saw some at my LFS today & fell in love! <3
- LIVE PLANTS. 

& I am talking over the course of like a year. Haha. Not anytime soon. But I have great plans! 

I am in fish love . . .


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> BAHAHA. I just realized that my status went from "Junior Member" to "Fishy Member". Don't really know what that means but I like it!
> 
> Plans for my fishy future:
> - Upgrading to a 20+ Gal. Eveeeeentually! <3
> ...


ur now fishy member because u have made enough posts. you can also edit it and make your own name for yourself lol. alo if you are going for an upgrade go big or go home you will really regret waisting the money on a 20 gallon. go for 55 or 75 although even 55's are a waste of money because for the little bit more it costs you can do soooo much mroe with a 75. as for the filter. overfilter, overfilter, overfilter. your tank will be way better off. try to shoot for atleast having your tank cycle over 10x an hour so if its a 75 you want a filter that will do 750 gallons per hour but i would break that up into two filters because its always good to have a back up filter. if u plan on puting the betta with your other fish i would say just dont attempt it to avoid anger and frustration because they are very iffy and can sometimes be really aggressive its hit or miss with them. also for the plants def go for a big tank if u want live plants and do it the right way with nice lighting and co2 machine and chemicals. lol you get addicted to the hobby fast. i went from no tanks to 4 tanks in 3 months now im sitting comfortably at 5 until i move.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

OH & today at my LFS I saw those Sterbai Cory's you were talking about. Ahhhh I LOVE THEM. Do different species of Cory hang out together? Or do they generally stick to their own? Just out of curiosity. I get this deep heart-felt pang for Catfish. I don't know what it is. They melt me. Maybe it's those little barbs . . . 

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A 55 GALLON. 

The only down-side is that I live with my parents still. I will be at home for probably the next 2 - 3 years while I am in school. The only other downside is that I don't know if I can fit a 55 Gallon in my room! So I might have to settle for something in between. At least for the time being. When I move out on my own I will go ALL OUT. 

And no, I was not planning on putting the Betta with my other fish. I know that they are pretty aggressive. Especially towards each other. I'd avoid the whole route and put him in his own little tank!


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

different types of corys will school together but they def seem to like their own type the most. i have 12 corys in pairs of two and they all seem to hang out but the ones that are the same are always by eachother more than the others. and living at your parents isn't a big deal you can find a place for it just get rid of a dresser or something. i got rid of all my dressers and put my bed in my closet to make room for my tanks when i moved back to my moms then i continued to buy more so i had to start stacking them lol.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah but what if I am eventually able to move out? Won't a 55 Gallon tank be a killer to move?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

they actually arnt that hard to move. i took all my fish put them into 3 5 gallon buckets with tank water in them dropped my filter bags in there drained the tank and left a little bit of water in to keep the gravel wet so it wouldnt kill the biological then just haul and move. took less than an hour to break down and less then an hour to put back up. just filled the rest of the tank with tap water. i had to do that woth 2 55s and 2 10 gallons.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah that doesn't sound that bad . . . Hmm. 

I'll have to think about it. Hahaha.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

lol shoot for a 75


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah well I'll try. Maybe. I woke up this morning - half in and half out of sleep - dreaming about a giant fish tank in my bedroom . . . Hahaha. 

My poor snaily. I need to get to the pet store & get a cuddle bone, asap. 

Also, recommendations for fresh veggies to feed the tank? Is Cucumber good? I don't have any Zucchini currently. And should I just chuck little pieces in the tank? Or get a clip? ANNND . . . do veggies break down in the tank and produce ammonia like fish food does?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

the leftovers will need to be removed the next day or they will rot and decay and produce ammonia.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah, ok, I'll keep that in mind. I am getting a gravel vacuum on Friday because the gravel is getting yuckers. Can you vacuum gravel with the fish in there?


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> Yeah, ok, I'll keep that in mind. I am getting a gravel vacuum on Friday because the gravel is getting yuckers. Can you vacuum gravel with the fish in there?


best way to do it IMO it stresses the fish out less than removing them. just make sure u dont suck any of the little buggers up it can kill them pretty quick if they get stuck.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I like the clips. Get ones that float, so you don't have to reach the bottom of the tank to fetch it. But some people just stick a fork in a slice and sink it in the tank. veggies are food, all food turns to ammonia, so watch the quantity and remove uneaten portions.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

MY SNAIL IS GONE! ): 

I posted this in my snail-care thread but I got home and poof, just gone. 

I searched the whole tank. He wasn't inside any of the decorations, he wasn't on any of the plants, behind the filter or the heater. Anywhere. 

I have heard that snails can escape the tank but you figure he would be nearby if he did. He was nowhere on, in, near or anywhere within 5 ft. of my tank. 

I am not strong-hearted enough to have a fish tank. I just got done crying for like half an hour because my snail was gone . . . I didn't even cry when my 2 fish died but my snail disappear and blam I am a blubbering baby.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

im sorry to hear that did u check in the filter? check everywhere in the tank up in the corners they are very good at hiding. check on the top of the tank or sides of the glass.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I did check the filter but it was hard to see with the water getting pulled through. It didn't look like it though. I also checked the sides and the top. It's not a very big tank. I don't know. I am hoping that he just super camouflaged himself and when I get home he'll be out and about and crawling around the tank. Because I don't know where the hell he went. I searched EVERYWHERE. I don't even know how he would have gotten out of the tank. I have seen him go to the top of the tank before, but he never goes further than the water line. 

And I figure even if he did get out of the tank . . . he couldn't have gone very far. I have carpet. Ugh.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

just keep lookin im sure youll find him. what kind is he? how big? if he did get out if u find him fast enough may still be alive. did u look behind your filter intake?


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

He is a mystery / apple snail and he is pretty big. Not sure what I can compare it to. I am not at home anymore. But I looked for like 45 minutes. I could not find him anywhere outside of the tank. Or even within like 5 ft. of the tank. I don't know how in the heck he could get in the filter, I took the cartridge out a little earlier for a rinse because I was doing a water change and I didn't see anything (that was how I noticed he was missing anyways, btw, I was doing a water change) . . . Do they ever bury themselves in Substrate? I have gravel . . . I don't know. My boyfriend checked inside the decorations & said he wasn't in there. He might have been wedged in the largest decoration somewhere my boyfriend didn't see maybe? 

I am hoping that when I get home he will just be there. I don't think he got out of the tank. There are only 2 exit points, one is where my heater goes through and the other is next to the filter. And the space next to the filter he can't fit through. He wasn't behind the bookcase my tank is on, he wasn't anywhere on the shelves, the wall, the floor, he wasn't under my bed, or under a table I have next to it, neither of us stepped on him. 

I have no idea.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Just got home. Still no snail. No snail in my tank. And no dead snail or alive snail, anywhere. 

I just don't understand how a snail just poof! There isn't even a dead one! What the hell. 

):


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

im sorry if u dont find him he may still pop up somewhere


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

weird, if he got eaten, there'd be a shell. Did you look on the underside of the lid? Do you have cats or dogs that could snack on what gets out of the tank?


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

OK so after not seeing him we decided to do a thorough search of the tank again. We found him wedged into a really deep part of the giant bubbler decoration in the middle of the tank. My boyfriend pulled him out and set him out in the regular tank. I think he was stuck. He seems ok. There is a little chip in his new shell growth and right now he is sticking out his feelers and exploring around a little. 

I hope he's ok . . . I am thinking about getting another snail. Hahahaha.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I am relieved . . .


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Also, I don't know what IMO means. 
I am really sick today and I am gonna call in to work. 
I think I'll go get a gravel vacuum.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

Christine270 said:


> Also, I don't know what IMO means.
> I am really sick today and I am gonna call in to work.
> I think I'll go get a gravel vacuum.


IMO=In my opinion, IME=In my experience


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Hahaha alright, thanks. 

Well I got a gravel vacuum. It was on clearance for like $4. It was just one of those siphon ones. But it worked really well. I got all the gunk out of the gravel & did about a 25% water change at the same time. 

I also met this guy at the store who works at Southwest, which is our local saltwater store. He has a 300 gallon saltwater tank. I was like holy crap! I was looking at a chocolate chip starfish is how I started talking to him.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Can you put an apple snail in with a betta? Male or female? I want to get a betta and I am going to be putting it in a little Aqueon tank to keep it seperate from my 10 gallon. I was thinking I wanted a male but I might go female. I saw an absolute beautiful female betta today. 

I think my boyfriend really wants a male though. I just worry about a male pestering the snail. I heard females are less aggressive and make better snail tank-mates. 

The tank is I think is like 2.5 gallons. It is filtered (I feel bad for any un-filtered fish) but I am going to be buying a separate filter than what comes with the tank. The filter that comes with it takes up a lot of room in the little tank and apparently creates quite a current for just one fish. I was going to get a Red Sea Nano filter. I heard it works just as well but takes up less space in the little tank. 

This whole aquarium thing is addicting . . . Geezy.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

*Water Changes*

I Don't know if this was already recommended, I didn't all of it to save time, but I would do a small 1 gallon (10%) daily, if not slightly less. In a tank larger than ten gallons, I'd do more, but if you did anything much larger, you're only getting rid of whatever bacteria you currently have. Good luck, and if anyone disagrees with me, I'd probably go with them. Again, 10% daily water changes and you should be able to minimize the amount of lost fish.:idea:


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Well the only reason I have been changing the water more is because my ammonia levels get really high. If it is a day that my ammonia level isn't that high I will do a smaller water change.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Ok. Well I guess an update. I still don't think my tank has cycled. My ammonia level has never gone down to 0. Even when I do a water change, no matter how big the water change, the levels still hang around 0.05 ppm. 

The only thing I put in the water is Seachem Prime with the water changes and a tiny bit of Seachem Stability here and there. I do water changes when my ammonia levels go up. The highest it has gone is a bit over 0.2 ppm. But never as high as 0.5 ppm. When I do my water changes the levels go down but like I said, they have never fallen below 0.05 ppm. 

As for Nitrite and Nitrate levels. I have absolutely no idea. No way to tell as I don't have any tests for those.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

I also am considering getting a second filter for my tank. But I don't know. My tank is only 10 gallons like I said, but I worry about the day that I'll have to change the cartridge. And my filter is too small to try and fit a new cartridge in behind the old one. 

Also, I am worried about a second filter taking up too much room in the tank. I have the filter in the left hand corner and the heater in the right hand corner. I have a digital thermometer, whose reader is suction cupped to the back wall of the tank in the center. Maybe if I do get a second one I could get one of those nanos? I don't know . . .


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

def get a second filter even if its just a sponge filter it will help the tank and will be much safer if one stops working. its not suprising that ur tank hasnt cycled yet it can take a while when u are doing such frequent water changes but thats how u need to do it in order to keep it safe for your fish. as for the betta goes i would shoot for atleast a 5 gallon they will be much happier and it will be easier to filter and make the tank not so dirty so quick. when picking a filter 2 things to concider are gallons per hour(gph) the more the better. and size of the filter cartridge the bigger the better it will hold more bacteria. for a betta you could do a single spunge fiilter but i think it will look better and keep the water a lot cleaner if u just got a real filter. use the seachem stability a little more frequently, its safe to use more than what the bottle says. as for the snail i dont think a big snail will get picked on atleast any bettas ive ever owned have never picked on them. and if they have a trap door then they cant really do much to them. i would get a mystery snail not an apple snail because the apple snails get a bit larger like tenis ball sized so would be unsuitable for a small tank.


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## Christine270 (Oct 13, 2010)

Haha. Well the snail that I have in my 10 gallon now is a "mystery" snail. I read somewhere that Mystery Snails & Apple Snails are the same thing? If they aren't, then mine might be an Apple Snail. I have looked at a lot of pictures and charts and things and he fits perfectly, not to mention he is getting HUGE. He has doubled, if not almost tripled in size since I purchased him and it's only been about 2 weeks. He is about the size of a golf ball right now and I'm afraid he is going to get even bigger. I know fish only grow to the size of the tank. Is that the same with snails? I sure hope so. I don't know what I'll do with a tennis-ball sized snail . . . I'll probably have to invest in a separate tank just to house him by himself. I even have to feed the catfish while he is off hiding in the decorations because he eats all of the bottom-feeder pellets & algae wafers I throw in for the catfish. 

And as for the filters and stuff, I am not getting a Betta yet, so I will be looking around for awhile and I will try to find a good 2nd filter for my 10 gallon.


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