# Need Advice restarting my tank =(



## steven1 (Dec 19, 2009)

For the past 2 monthS my ive been losing fish that have no sign of sickness.

My 135 freshwater tank has been set up for 2 years.

Here is a list of my surviving fish: :fish:
I have 3 goldfish, 
4 platies, 
2 mollies, 
1 gourami, 
1 african dwarf frog, 
and a dojo loach.

I havent been able to bring back my PH level its been below 6 and i have a little bit amonia.. My water has been extremly cloudy and ive been vaccuming my tank and cleaning the filters every two weeks. 

I have a Rena XP4 and i added a brand new FLUVAL FX5 and nothing changed..

I removed all my decorations and im about to remove the gravel

M y
Q U E S T I O N S

Should i remove all the water? or should i remove 80%? ?

Should i add real live plants into my aquarium?

Shoud i remove all my gravel and let my aquarium have no substrate, decorations, 
Please help i dont have much time.. 
:sad:


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

steven1 said:


> For the past 2 monthS my ive been losing fish that have no sign of sickness.
> 
> My 135 freshwater tank has been set up for 2 years.
> 
> ...


I would do a 40-50% water change every couple days for a week or two. Hopefully, that will get your ammonia under control, which is probably what's been killing your fish. I have to ask why are you mixing goldfish with tropical fish?


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## steven1 (Dec 19, 2009)

Ghost Knife said:


> I would do a 40-50% water change every couple days for a week or two. Hopefully, that will get your ammonia under control, which is probably what's been killing your fish. I have to ask why are you mixing goldfish with tropical fish?


i only have 4 goldifish and there pretty small 
the ammonia is low 

im deciding on getting a new substrate and adding live plants to remove ammonia 

what substrate is great with plants?


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

steven1 said:


> i only have 4 goldifish and there pretty small
> the ammonia is low
> 
> im deciding on getting a new substrate and adding live plants to remove ammonia
> ...


Doesn't really matter. I find gravel does just fine and it's much easier to clean than sand.


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## steven1 (Dec 19, 2009)

Ghost Knife said:


> Doesn't really matter. I find gravel does just fine and it's much easier to clean than sand.


thanks for helping by the way and im sticking with the gravel but im deciding on the brand still


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

steven1 said:


> thanks for helping by the way and im sticking with the gravel but im deciding on the brand still


Rocks are rocks.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I would go with the cheap stuff.


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## steven1 (Dec 19, 2009)

thanks for the help


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## blindkiller85 (Jan 8, 2011)

steven1 said:


> M y
> Q U E S T I O N S
> 
> Should i remove all the water? or should i remove 80%? ?
> ...


First and foremost. If your PH fell below 6 then there is something doing it. Did you add anything to the tank at all other than the FX5. If you didn't clean everything in the FX5 first, there could've easily been a chemical in it that did all this. Did you do the same for the media in it? Otherwise, check the water you're using to refill it. I'm assuming tap so check the pH of that. 

With the proper amount of gravel ( which I would leave in there ) you should have enough bacteria just in that to reduce ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. Every 2-3 days doing 40-50% as stated before and doing a gravel vac would be the best way to cure this. Vac'ing it removes any fish poo that just got in there from the day(s) prior to doing it. But the bacteria you cannot kill unless you drain it to the point that it's exposed to the air for extended periods of time.

Plants: First and foremost you need the proper light to do it. But, the easiest way to do it ( and yes it will help ) is to just get a moss ball and let it roam around the tank freely all considering tank size, could do just as well with 2-3. But doing what has been suggested prior will do it with out spending the money.

Again, I would leave the gravel in, it's got as much if not more biological filtration than your rena XP4. Why you needed two filters capable of filtering TWO 250+ gallon tanks all on a 135 is beyond me. Your fish must be in a whirl pool. XP4 going at about 400-450gph and the FX5 doing about 500-600gph is *INSANE.*


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

1000 gph in a 135 is not insane. Its not even 10X, IMO its about right. I am a believer in 'over-filtering' esp. where goldfish are concerned.

With pH that low, I be your nitrates are 'off the chart" and your new filter won't 'cycle' while the pH is below 7. To get the nitrates down, the bigger the water change, the better. I would move the fish into a bunch of small tanks or buckets w/aeration. Drain the tank, remove the substrate, fill with clean water. Acclimate the fish to clean water: drop the water level to just covering the fish, add some clean water, wait, add more clean water, repeat (drop the level, etc.) . Move the fill back into the tank, one at a time, watching for distress (sometimes a freshly filled tank will have low oxygen and you may need to add aeration and keep the fish out overnight). Wash the substrate in the sink at your leisure and add it back clean. Check the pH, kH, etc. of the water in the tank and the tap. If the kH is low or TDS < 100 , consider adding a carbonate buffer (baking soda is one) or a phosphate buffer (SeaChem alkaline regulator) to keep the pH up. 

This kind of thing (tank fine for a long time, then pH falls suddenly, fish die, filter won't control ammonia) is classic "old tank syndrome". What happens when water changes and gravel washing don't keep up with the waste and nitrate produced by the fish. The nitrate "uses up" the "buffering capacity" of the water, the pH falls, fish die, high ammonia kills off the filter bacteria which reproduce more slowly at low pH. 

My above advice is the "big clean" solution and will get you to a tank with 0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and you would likely have another 2 years before it happens again. You have to be cautious with additions, like a new tank.

If you can't do the 'big clean aka total breakdown" (say you have to go to work). Throw in the "emergency" 4x dose of Prime and 1/4 tsp / 10 gallons of baking soda. When you can, start changing water while gravel washing. Do this repeatedly whenever you can in increasing amounts until your pH and nitrate are under control. Do get a nitrate test. Once nitrate is over 160 ppm, the color doesn't change. Nitrate can be 1000 ppm and some fish will live if it crept up slowly. Recommended is about 10 ppm. So if nitrate is really, really high, it can take a 99.9% water change to get it down.

You can add plants if you like, but deal with the water issues first. Unless you have a bushel of hornwort handy to toss in, plants won't help fast enough.


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