# Tank Mates?



## Niki2105

*Hi, 

Im going to get a bigger tank for my Fantail Goldfish and i was just wondering if i sould get more Fantails or if I could get any type of goldfish to keep her company. Do they need there own kind to school or will they school with different goldfish too. 

Thanks, 
Niki.*


----------



## osteoporoosi

yes, goldfish are very much schooling fish, large schooling fish. fantails grow slightly smaller than comets, so fantails would work fine. 6 fantails would need a 150gallon tank with good filtration, slightly acidid and semi-hard water. And cool water, temp. about 60-70.


----------



## fishboy

osreoporoosi why do you put everyone down by saying they need tanks that are hundreds of gallons?
Niki you have several options white clouds, weather loach, danios, busy nosed pleco, rubber pleco, mystery snail, ghost shrimp(will be eaten by large fish), african dwarf frogs, otos (maybe eaten by large fish), and other goldfish (not just fantails)


----------



## Ownager2004

I did a lot of research on goldfish before i decided to go with platies instead and the main thing seemed to be only keep goldfish with goldfish or koi. And on top of that, in a tank setting, only keep slower moving goldfish(fantail) with other slower types..

I like Ryukins and panda goldfish. Check those out you might like them too 


Edit: And in all that research the experienced goldfish keeper's all said that goldfish would do fine by themselves... Ive never heard of anything about having to keep goldfish schools.


----------



## osteoporoosi

If it is not possible to give a fish the space and care it needs, why to get any?It seems cruel to keep a goldfish in a tank ´too small, if you know that it can't grow normally in it. It is wonderful that Niki wants to give her goldfish a better life-thumbs up!

Here's an excellent example of a beautiful, proper size goldfish tank:
http://groups.msn.com/KultakalojenMaailma/omawebsivu1.msnw


----------



## garfieldnfish

Depending on how large a tank you are getting, the rule of thumb for fancy goldfish, i.e orandas, fantails, ruykins, black moors is 15 gal for the first goldfish and 10 for each additional one. Goldfish like company of their own kind (mixed fancy goldfish included) but they do not need a school (which is in general regarded as 6 and up). 2 goldfish will be just as happy as 6 of them together, but it's better to have 2 then one lonely goldfish. One of the reasons you should not mix fancies and commons (or comets) is that the fancies will have a hard time competing for food since they move a lot slower, but in a large enough tank and if you make sure the fancies get their share of the food (I can hand feed mine) it can be done. But there is always the change the much faster commons will hassel the slower fish. I would not mix them. Good tankmates beside other goldfish were already listed by Fishboy and I totally agree with the plecos (rubberlip and bushynose/bristlenose plecos), the danios, minnows and weather loaches and mystery snails (the goldfish will nibble on them to begin with but the snails will learn quickly when to retreat into their shells and will regrow parts lost during the learning phase. I have kept them together successfully for some time, but the snails are also very heavy poopers). I would not get ghost shrimp as they will be food for any goldfish as soon as the shrimp fits into it's mouth and that happens pretty quickly. I had a 3" oranda try to eat an oto. He could not swallow him just yet but the otos got stuck in his mouth and I had to pull him free. I would never try this again either. It was a juvenile oto but so was the goldfish. I believe it to be too risky. I have a 46 gal goldfish tank with currently 2 goldfish and 1 bristlenose. I just recently lost a third goldfish due to a tumor but this size tank is great for 3 to 4 fancy goldfish and a small pleco.


----------



## blb

I agree with Garfield. I like to keep goldfish with atleast one other goldfish. I keep them as species tanks but know people who have them with the ones on the list. I did try ramshorn snails and they ate them. Goldfish really don't need a bottom cleaner as they are good at keep it clean. If you do add anything else make sure they get enough food.


----------



## Niki2105

*Well thanks for all the replies. I am hoping to get one bigger than a 20 so i can have at least 3 goldfish in it. I think i will get another Fantail and maybe a black moor. I will let you know when i get it and what other fish i put in it. Then in the future i can upgrade and maybe add a new fish or two to the batch. *

*osteoporoosi, i dont mean this in a bad way but not everyone can afford to buy a tank 100 gallons or more and i do wish i could afford it or bigger but it is not possible at the moment maybe a few years down the road i can get one that big or i might even have an outdoor pond but not right now. But i do appreciate your input its just i cant afford that big of tank but i will get the biggest one i can.*


----------



## Willow

Yeah, I've been having a hard time figuring out why I'm being told I need hundreds of gallons for 6 fancy goldies. It doesn't make sense to me. I believe the best "rules" for fancy goldfish are: 15g for the first fish, 10g for each additional *or* 10g per fish *or* 2g per inch of fish, 10g minimum. Anything more is unnecessary, in my opinion. Nice if you have the room and money, but not necessary. Of course, this is assuming you're doing proper water changes and keeping an eye on the water quality, but I think that's a given for any serious aquarist.


----------



## osteoporoosi

The reason why goldfish need big tanks is that fantails grow a bit under foot and are amazingly messy.


----------



## Niki2105

In most of the sites i have read the size of Fantails seams to range from 4-8 inches but i supose you could have bigger and smaller ones. But I dont think i would get a tank under 20 gallons so i could at lest house 2. Anyway, I cant wait to get a bigger tank cause i seen these beautiful Calico Fantail and i wanted one sooo bad but i dont have the new tank yet so i will have to wait a while before i get one. I wish i could find one of them Panda Fantails around here they are cool to and i like fish that are different. I usually look for the fish that looks unique in the tank and aint quite colored like the rest and then i want that one.


----------



## osteoporoosi

All goldfish _could_ grow to 8-9 inches if they had the room,food and good water. They can live up to 20 years, they would certainly have the time to do it  
Glad that you are getting a bigger tank!


----------



## blb

You are wrong. Not all goldfish can grow that big. Some are stunted from bad conditions. At the lfs you don't quite know what you are getting.


----------



## osteoporoosi

Umm.. did you read my last post? i said all goldfish grow large with proper food, water and space.


----------



## blb

I still disagree with you. Yes all goldfish will grow to what their body tells them. Some goldfish may come from a small breeding pair. Just because you give them proper room, food and quality water doesn't mean they will grow over 6". Some are genetic to be smaller than others. 

Yes we won't to give our goldies the best possible care but that and that alone will give you a 12" goldfish.


----------



## M&MKhan

Quick question since we are talking aobut tank conditions. I am desperately curious about this one but of course would never intentionally let it happen:

What happens to a goldfish when they are in a too small tank? I know they get stunted but what actually happens? Do their organs squish or do they just not grow?


----------



## osteoporoosi

They stop growing for a while, but they can't do this for too long. After this their organs start growing normally, which leads to deformations of the intestins.
Their spine also twists. And usually stunted fish die after couple of years.


----------



## Thunderkiss

blb said:


> I still disagree with you. Yes all goldfish will grow to what their body tells them. Some goldfish may come from a small breeding pair. Just because you give them proper room, food and quality water doesn't mean they will grow over 6". Some are genetic to be smaller than others.
> 
> Yes we won't to give our goldies the best possible care but that and that alone will give you a 12" goldfish.



And if you disagreed you'd be dead wrong. Goldfish are carps. period. I have never seen a goldfish under 10 inches, good conditions or bad. Fish don't stunt, they deform and grow slower in improper conditions, but they will always grow.


----------



## Guest

I know I'm running late but I just have to reply. First of all, you do NOT need 100+ gallon tank for gf to grow to their maximum potential. I've seen 12 inch gold fish thriving in 75 gallons and even 50 gallon tanks. Having a tank smaller then that simply will not stunt the growth (or cause defromaties), allthogh water conditions will. I'm just saying, 50 to 75 gallon tanks will definitley be sufficient for goldfish.

By the way, the oldest CAPTIVE goldfish on record lived 43 years in a BOWL, google it


----------



## GaryTheGoldfish

Jascar said:


> I know I'm running late but I just have to reply. First of all, you do NOT need 100+ gallon tank for gf to grow to their maximum potential. I've seen 12 inch gold fish thriving in 75 gallons and even 50 gallon tanks. Having a tank smaller then that simply will not stunt the growth (or cause defromaties), allthogh water conditions will. I'm just saying, 50 to 75 gallon tanks will definitley be sufficient for goldfish.
> 
> By the way, the oldest CAPTIVE goldfish on record lived 43 years in a BOWL, google it


The oldest captive goldfish actually lived in a tank. (and yes, google told me so).


----------



## Thunderkiss

"I know I'm running late but I just have to reply. First of all, you do NOT need 100+ gallon tank for gf to grow to their maximum potential. I've seen 12 inch gold fish thriving in 75 gallons and even 50 gallon tanks. Having a tank smaller then that simply will not stunt the growth (or cause defromaties), allthogh water conditions will. I'm just saying, 50 to 75 gallon tanks will definitley be sufficient for goldfish.

By the way, the oldest CAPTIVE goldfish on record lived 43 years in a BOWL, google it" 


Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. And i don't even want to consider the ridiculous amount of work keeping a goldfish alive in a bowl for 40+ years would take, nevermind the plain old out and out cruelty of it. Osteo has it right, stop beating your head against the brick wall, it is as futile as you are wrong.


----------



## John

I just want to add a bit on here... The thing about many species of carp, like many species of coldwater catfish, is that although while they do need enough space to grow, they often don't need to grow to their "maximum size". In fact, many fishkeepers can't get their fancy carp to grow to the textbook 12 inches because that simply is not necessary for their survival while they are in captivity with no predators. Many carp and catfish will keep growing until they are too big for their enclosure, and just because they aren't small enough anymore, it doesn't mean that they are going to be stunted. At a certain size, carp reach a healthy adult size, and if they keep growing it's because they naturally would have a better chance of survival being bigger rather than smaller, but it's really just "extra credit". Koi will grow to six feet over many decades if given the chance, but that doesn't mean that being held at three feet (or two feet or even, sometimes, one foot) will stunt them - they almost always stay healthy. The reason that a lot of carp and catfish will just keep growing is because they are natural gluttons, and their body keeps growing to increase the chances of survival.


----------



## Henry

Wow thats a long time for a goldfish to live. :fish:


----------



## Cichlid Man

This is a long time for a topic to live, wow.


----------



## fish_doc

Its



the



worlds



slowest



moving



thread.



LOL


----------



## garfieldnfish

I have had (until recently) 3 fancy goldfish in a 46 gal tank. I bought them 2 years ago. A few months back one of the fish died from a tumor. That left two 1.5 year old small goldfish and a bristlenose pleco in a considerably large tank. They get fed twice a day and I do weekly water changes of 30%. Yet after 2 years these 2 goldfish have not even passed the 4 inch mark and have not markedly grown at all in the past 6 months since the 3rd one died. I believe they have reached their maximum size or at least have slowed down in growth to where they can live in this tank for a very long time if not all their live. I have a 75 gal tank that currently houses all sort of tropicals but I am tryng to cut down on the aquarium crazyness that has overtaken me and will not replace any fish once they die. Therefore the goldfish will eventually be moved into this tank. It should be interesting to see if they acutally live 30 years and grow to 12 inches but I really doubt it very much. Also there are Siamese doll goldfish that will not get any larger then 3 inches. Genetics do play a role.


----------



## fish_doc

Many of the fancy goldfish do not grow as large as the comets or koi. They have been bred in such a way where their adult size is limited. A 46 gal should be fine for 2 fancy goldfish.


----------

