# strange behavior.......



## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

29 gallon that i have been given and in the process of getting it clean i guess you could say. had one catfish that died that was severly skinny with open holes in his side ( not red or ragged just holes in his side ) was afraid it was fish TB due to the fact the pleco that was in the tank just up and frecked in the tank hit the hood and swam to the bottom and died and had a goldfish with popeye....have tried with otc parasite and bacterial med the whole tank twice with water changes , ph adj. added aqua. salt and all my parameters are fine no nitrates no nitrites ph tends to stay a little on the high 7.4 to 7.6 which i lower of course with it only to rebound back up. took half the gravel out and the aqua. ornaments out.etc......anyway now two of the fish that were in the tank originally a fancy multicolor long fin goldfish and a spotted cat fish are doing nothing but swimming these huge circles around the corner of the fish tank..... from top to bottom continuous?????/No clue if this all relates or what. the tank had 2 upside down cats that were mostly white but there color is back now since tha tank was treated andthey seem fine . The other fish 2 black tetras , 2 domin. molles a gold fish and a black molley are fine ....I change the filter every couple of weeks, there is a air wand hooked up dilvering air bubbles... no clue ...anything would be helpful.....should i break down this whole tank and clean and start over fresh? is this fish Tb? thank you


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

I don't know about the TB but what might be causing it is the pH swings! If I understood you right, you add something to make it go down but it comes right back up? If so, stop doing that! pH swings are very bad for fish. It is better to have it somewhat high than to have it keep changing. I don't mean to be rude but I know if that isn't why your fish died, it probably contributed to it by stressing them out so they are more susceptible to diseases. Also, I think most catfish do not do well with salt in their water. I am not sure about that though. You also probably do not need to change the filter that often (I assume you are talking about the cartridge). That might contribute to their stress too by causing the tank to go through a mini-cycle. That partway depends on the filter you have though. A lot of them you can just rinse out the cartridge and stick it back in. It also sounds like you were somewhat overstocked. Goldfish get pretty big for a 29 gallon. It depends on what kind of goldfish it is though. Another thing, goldfish need cold water but all the rest of your fish should have water around 78 degrees fahrenheit.

How often do you do water changes? The goldfish and the pleco are very big waste producers, especially in a smaller tank like that. Also what are the test results for ammonia? Was this tank cycled? How recently was it set up? Once you answer these questions it will be a lot easier to tell what is wrong.


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

the pleco up and died about a mont


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

sorry about that. the tank was a established tank of about5 years moved here by some friends whop had no room for it in their house and eventually gave it to us. the big goldfish was in there original and it mate died before we recieved this tank the other 2 goldfish are babies. the tank has been thru 2 hurricane but they were able to be run on generator...i do water changes weekly and have rechargable ammonia eliminator packs in the tank itself ( would not fit into the filter).the two small goldfish have been in there for about 2 months..recently started adding this bacteria cycle to the filters when they are changed and i add a nitrate nitrite reducer at water changes with of course the usual water conditioners required with tap water. i know the golfish are messy so i do between 25 to 50 % water changes and i clean the intake valve tube and magnet for the filter once a month... i do not know everything but i try tio stay on top of tank maintance...if this is too much please let me know. i have a 10 gl, 15 gl salt, 29 fresh , 5 gallon fresh and a soon to have a 55 salt... new to most of it....thank you........


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Ok it woudl be best to keep the goldfish in a seperate tank from the other fish, because of their need for different temperatures. That would be a good start. Also, it would be better not to use all those chemicals like nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia remover. You also don't need to add cycle to the tank. It is pretty much worthless. The chemicals often do more harm than good, IMO. I'm guessing the tank isn't really cycled if you have to use those chemicals. A good investment, instead of those chemicals, would be to buy either some Bio-spira, or stability. I am not certain, but I think since you have been putting those chemicals in there isn't much, if any, beneficial bacteria in your tank. Like I said I am not sure about that. Someone else can tell you for sure about that. It is good that you are keeping up on the maintenance. That makes a lot of difference. So just a recap, you shouldn't use the pH adjuster, the nitrate and nitrite reducer, the ammonia reducer, or cycle. Actually come to think of it it might be ok to use ammonia reducer. I think a better approach would be to do it the natural way though. It's also less expensive to do it that way.

Just to be sure, exactly how many fish of what kind and what size do you have in there? Thanks


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

2 upside down catfish ( 3-4 inches), 2 Grommies ( 3 - 4 inches)2 dom. mollies ( 2-3 inches ) 2 black tetras ( 1.5 - 2 inches ) 2 small algea eating fish ( one 1 inch other 2. 5 inches )1 spotted catfish ( 3-4 inches ) 1 fancy tail goldfish ( 3.5 - 5 inches ). 0ne fantail goldfish( 1.5 inches ) 1 black moor( 1.5 inches )and one red fish ( unknown about 1.5 inches ) and that is it..........when i got the tank it had about 3 to 4 inches of gravel and had not been cleaned in months...it was disqusting to vacumn...never seen that much poop in a tank before. i would think it would be established if it has been running for years ?


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Hmmm it seems like it should be, but something doesn't seem right to me. Also you are overstocked. You should get a different tank for the goldfish (the tank needs to be big too!) because you are overstocked and also because they should be in much cooler water than the other fish. I think if you got rid of the goldfish out of that tank you could put more fish in there. You should probably increase the school of tetras to about 4-6. But that is later, once you figure out what is wrong with the fish. How often do you add cycle, the pH adjuster, and nitrate and nitrite remover? Also, as far as I can tell, the only fish that have problems right now are the spotted catfish and a goldfish and their problems are that they are going nuts so to speak, but a pleco, catfish, and goldfish died. Am I right about that?


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

I agree with Lydia on everything she said 100% the ph adjuster alone would cause alot of stress on your fish from quick changes. I would get rid of the goldfish and one or both of the upside down catfish, these can get twice the size they are now. what exactly are your parameters?


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

yes these three have died .. the goldfish died before we got the tank... the previous owner did tell me that the other goldfish did get pop eye before it died he just did not know what it was till we told him about the other one getting it after it got here so the tank was never treated... the cycle is added at filter change which is every 2 to 3 weeks. and after i do the water changes is when i add the nitraite reducer and ammonia reducer. the ph when i got the tank was higher than 7.6 and after i cleaned and got rid of some ornamentation and added live plants to ph did stablize for a short while then it shot back up...the goldfish and spotted cat do their swimming the giant circle routine at night after the lights go out ( they are doing now at opposite sides of the tank ).....not sure of what to do and hope this helps.....also last check the nitrate and nitrite were fine and the ph was 7.5...what did you mean by the natural way to remove the ammonia ????????


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

If you don't add those chemicals, you will get bacteria that break down ammonia into nitrites, and then into nitrates. To remove the nitrates you do water changes. That is the natural, and usually the better way to do it. About your fish swimming in circles, I had a catfish a while ago that did that because he was in too small of a tank. I don't think you need to worry about that too too much. It's a problem, but you need to straighten out the rest of the tank and I think that will fix itself. You need to stop using the chemicals and get the goldfish and 1 or both of the upside-down cats out of that tank. Also what exactly are the test results for nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia? How many ppm (parts per million) or however your test kit does it? Also it might help if you knew exactly what kind of fish the spotted catfish, the red fish, and the algea eaters are. Try looking at this link and tell me if this is the spotted catfish: http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_pictus.php . The reason I want to know is to know how much bigger your fish will get. What colors are the algea eaters? Does the red fish look like this http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_rosym.php ? If not, can you describe it?


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

right catfish in the picture and the red fish is a cherry barb.....both original occupants of the tank..i can not give current test reselts due to fact i ran out of test strips and have not replaced. just 4 days ago did the 40 to 50 % water change......now the black tetra ( one ) the larger one loses his color and then it comes back and he tends to float on his side and his fins quiver and then he stops and rights himself back up in the tank????????is this something new???another problem or all they all joined in somehow...i have to get more strips which i will do tommorrow.......sorry about this and not being able to give you the information that is needed .it is not that i dont care i just can not get it today.......hope this helps


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

you should invest to a liquid testing kit, they're more accurate


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

i was wondering if that would make a vast difference,ty for the advice...


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

yeah, they're not as fast, but definatly worth it. We tested with both kits at the same time and noticed a big difference. We use aquarium pharmacutecals, you can buy it cheaper online


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## fish_doc (Jan 31, 2005)

Usually one bottle lasts alot longer than the test strips. Last time I checked it was cheaper in the long run. I havent priced the strips lately though.


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

fish_doc said:


> Usually one bottle lasts alot longer than the test strips. Last time I checked it was cheaper in the long run. I havent priced the strips lately though.


last time i knew, around here they went for 15 USD for 30 test strips


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Hmmm....that's not good that the tetra is doing that. Which I'm sure you already figured out, lol. Maybe it's got swim bladder problems? I don't really know a whole lot about that.


> another problem or all they all joined in somehow


 I don't understand what you mean by this? Also I understand if you don't have current test results because you ran out of test strips. Once you get the kit could you please post the results? Thanks


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## bgmamacline (Aug 24, 2005)

sorry it has taken so long..what i meant it just seems to be one problem after another.....i start to fix one thing and then another set of fish start acting wierd.removed all three goldfish and one upside down cat out of the tank.....regular water changes and the test parameters yesterday were nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 20 ppm, ammonia .25 ppm andf the ph was at about 7-4 to 7.6.i have added a BUNCh of live plants to this tank.... i treated this tank with melafix without the filter because the fish were losing color and they are doing better now.. the blue grommies color is back and so are their 2 black spots ( which i have not seen in a while ).. the black tetras are doing fine ( wonder if that was a mating thing???)switched the filter to a penquin biowheel 200 the aqua tech that was on it just did not seem to do the job the temp is at 76? ( found my heater unplugged ) gotta love that...but it seems to be doing better.... i think the fish we were getting at Walmart have got something ( everytime i would get something it would come down sick ) to do with this... quit buying fom their now... anyway any comments let me know thank you......... :fish:


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Okay, I think I've figured out one of your main problems, and how to fix it.
Cycle isn't a very good product, and your tank was crashing each time you cleaned the filter because the Cycle couldn't fix things fast enough.
Now that you have the biowheel penguin & the plants, things have started to improve. I think a big part of your problem was changing the filter without having a backup running. To fix your tank, run BOTH the penguin & the aquaclear together, and only clean ONE at a time. Clean one, and in a month do the other, and in another month do the first one again, and so on... Don't clean the spinning biowheel itself.


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