# The Discus guru



## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

I forget who that is around here, I got some questions for ya. my newest project I want a planted tank with discus.....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Not me, I only know stuff about discus that is common to other cichlids. Snyderguy has a tankful. discusnada.org is one group of discus nuts. I helped set up their show in Atlanta this year and their were some really stunning fish. But I choke on the $100 / fish price tag for fry.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Blmbites where are you! Come back to the forum!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

what do you want to know....discus are not hard to keep actually...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

A lot discus stuff is just like angels, Uaru, festivum, etc.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i agree emc...very similar....with only a few special considerations...they can be a bit temperamental at times and maybe a little spooky ; but these things can be avoided...


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## cuda (Oct 23, 2012)

Discus can be tough, but once acclimated can do well. Used to raise them years ago when we lived in Fl. All went well for a couple of years many fry, had five pairs in bare tanks until.. power outage in winter tanks got cold lost a few then sold all. A planted discus tank would look great! Mine were all bare tanks. Good luck


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

grogan said:


> Blmbites where are you! Come back to the forum!


I heard my name! Am I needed?

Oh, well I wouldn't say "guru". I have discus, but I am no super expert in them. I will offer the advise I can though. I think snyderguy is the person she is looking for.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

I know it was one of you tho lol

I want to do my 46 bow as a discus tank. I have an angel tank and have done well with them. I think if I can do saltwater then why not try discus? And I do hear they arent as hard to manage as one might think, so I want to go for it.

I dont know the tank minimum for them, but i want to try them in a 46 bow, and i want to go planted all the way. I want to do this the right way so I have some questions to start.

What substrate is best? Can i go with the Eco whatever its called?
Is co2 required? or just strongly recommended? tried it once and didnt really go all that well. I've had a few plants in a tank before and it grew beautifully.
what filtration is recommended? I'd like to do canister, but if i need a good HOB I can definitely go that route

I think the biggest thing I was worried about is the water quality, I know something was specific. was it the pH? Other than that, I'm good with water changes and keeping things clean, and I will make sure if I have to, i will go thru the trouble and make sure I fill this tank, all 46 gallons, with pure RO water. I'm on well water, but it's high in phosphates out of the tap


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

OK so the big thing to remember about discus, is their water. They like it very soft and clean. Slightly acidic is ok too. Discus will prefer water at a pH of 5.5 to 7.0. To get that pH from most city water, or even from wells, you have to send it through an RO filter. I try to keep the hardness and TDS as close to 0 as possible.

I go a little overkill with my water quality on these fish, but they are so expensive and beautiful, I would hate to lose them. If you had fairly soft tap water, you could probably still keep them. 

However, a cheap RO system will run you less than $100. You can also use this water as drinking water, if your water tastes funny. Some people prefer the spring water (that has a bunch of minerals dissolved in it), but I prefer completely flavorless, pure water. What I did was grabbed a large 30 gallon tub, and I fill it before my water change. It takes about 10 hours to fill. Then I stick a pump designed for a sump aquarium in it, with a long hose that I put in my aquarium. I use the stored water to change out 1/3 of my water when it's needed. When I test this water, I get 0 TDS and 0 hardness. 

Now the problem with RO water, is it doesn't support plants very well. There are no minerals or nutrients in it. You will have to add these nutrients back into the water. I probably wouldn't use Eco Complete substrate though, because it has calcium in it, which could make the water hard and more alkaline. I've seen people use Miracle Grow soil as a substrate. You could even cover the top of the soil with sand, so you don't just get mud, and you get a nicer looking substrate than just dirt. They also sell liquid nutrients for plants. You will have to do either the soil, or the liquid, or both if you want plants to grow.

I'm not much of a plant guy though, so I couldn't tell you about needing CO2. If you do decide on CO2, remember there are no buffers in RO water, so it could become extremely acidic, in very little time. CO2 is a strong acid. 

Since I just realized I didn't mention tank size:
Discus are a very odd shape compared to other fish. Unlike most other fish, discus will actually prefer a slightly taller tank. They get to be around the size of a tea saucer, with a few, allegedly, getting to the size of dinner plates. I've never seen one the size of a dinner plate, but some people say they get that big. You could probably put a couple in that aquarium no problem though. Maybe take a tea saucer and make sure they have enough room to move in all directions in that aquarium. Many stores sell them fairly young, and they can take a while to get full size, so don't let that fool you.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

thank you so much for your input. my 44 corner is more tall than long, but I dont know if i wanna break it down and take the angels out of it lol I only plan to get maybe two or three, they are pricey!! I dont want to do co2, and I can do the liquid route, I think I have some leaf zone when I tried last time or will get whatever I need. I dont know if I want to do a dirted tank at all, can I get away with gravel?

workin on the pH is definitely gonna be a challenge. I have an ro/di unit, but I think something is wrong with it. I produced maybe a cup of product water and probably 30 gallons of waste water. there's water leaking from somewhere so that might be my problem (i got it used on CL). I'm gonna just invest in a new system on bulk reef supply or something.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

The other thing I forgot to mention was that internal parasites are very common with discus. It's so common that many discus keepers treat new discus for parasites, even if they don't have them. Praziquantel is what is very commonly used for this. It would be a good idea for you to do the same.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

treat them in the main tank or in qt?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Most used RO units will need a new cartridge.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

PuterChickFL said:


> treat them in the main tank or in qt?


I would treat in a QT tank unless all the fish in the main tank are new discus.


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Don't worry about pH. 10 years ago discus needed to be at a lower pH but they'll do fine in a pH of 6.5-8.5, as long as you keep it consistent. A good general treatment is adding some metronidazole with brine shrimp. Might have to add some garlic guard too so they for sure eat it. The nice thing is that it can't be overdosed BUT don't do it every feeding. Twice a week is good enough, maybe even 3 times.

The way you can tell if a discus has internal parasites is by looking at them from head on. If their forehead is pinched, they're lacking something in their diet and need some different foods. If the stomach is pinched, then they either are eating very little or most likely have internal parasites.

If your angel is bigger than the discus, it will most likely fight the discus. Start out with smaller angels and let them grow. SOMETIMES that works, but not always.

A good 25% water change every week is more than enough for any discus, excluding newer fry. That's a whole different story. NEVER keep them in all RO water. Personally, I would never do more than 50/50 RO/tap water. They need the minerals in tap water to develop strong healthy bones and for their growth. For juveniles, I would do 75/25%.

Any substrate is good, keep the temperature anywhere between 81 and 86. Though keep it more around 85-88 if you suspect internal parasites.

Discus do get to the size of dinner plates. I've seen them bigger than that though 

Hope this helps!! Let's see some pictures too!!

P.S. Miss being on here but love checking in every once in a while. Hope everything is going well with everyone! Good luck with the hurricane people!


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

This is the best image I could get of a discus that has the pinched forehead and pinched stomach.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVs2BdzYPN0k9MwO-xVqjOdvhcEc5WRsASGVQHlrAKJdj2pXbaUfcayE-n



This link below is the best picture I could find of a healthy rounded forehead and stomach.
http://travelerfolio.com/travelerfolio/photos/aquarium-discus-fish.jpg

This is a cruddy picture but another healthy forehead and stomach (the one on the right)
http://laaquariumvolunteers.org/staticfiles/_idpics/discus.jpg


I'll take some pictures of mine when I get home tonight and upload them so you can see.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

well i got the tank in place where I want it and got it cleaned up. Once I decide on my substrate I'm gonna get it filled up. My tap water is pretty clean except for phospates. I tested my water directly from the tap, and everything is zero except phospates, and pH....actually I need to retest. I think it was kinda low actually


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Okay now my turn for some plant input:

First and foremost I think your choice to not use high lights and CO2 is a great idea. I say this because of the temperature discus thrive in. Most plants that would require high light and CO2 would not tollerate 82+. However some simple plants will thrive here. Swords, anubias, crypts and so on. 

Also CO2 can be finicky at times. Especially when doing your first setup. When a CO2 system kills a $100 fish and can be hard to swallow.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

Oh and thanks for that info snyderguy. I do have another question. I'm doing some reading and I'm seeing something about "aged water" and how the discus love that. what's that all about?


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

grogan, the light I am going to use has two bulbs in it, one is for plants and the other was regular daylight I think. I'll have to look at it again. I'd like to be able to have some nice and simple plants in there. without the co2 stuff, could I use something like leaf zone? I ask because I have an unopened bottle of it still


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh absolutely! Even a low light tank will benefit from organic carbon.


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

Ok good 

I'll be getting my substrate in the coming days and hope to have water in it this weekend so I can start planting


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

you could always put some of these in the tank...


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## snyderguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Aged water is simply letting water just sit out over night and letting chloramines and other potential harmful chemicals evaporate our naturally.. A lot of people just get a food grade 55 gallon barrel and fill it up, throw a heater in, and a powerhead so it's constantly moving. A lot easier when doing water changes too because you just get a long hose to go from the barrel to the tank


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

lohachata said:


> you could always put some of these in the tank...


what kind of plants are these?


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

If you have access to Fluval Stratum I would get it. Never used it but next to ADA Amazonia I have heard its the best. Its a tad bit on the more affordable side. Others use dirt, Eco Complete, Fluorite and so on. I have used Eco with mixed results. 

Also, depending on your phosphate levels I wouldn't worry them to much. I actually dose phosphates into my planted tank.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

the big plants on the right are Aponogeton Ulvaceus...the smaller ones on the left are Aponogeton Madagascarensis....i would not recommend the A. Madagascarensis for a discus tank as they prefer cooler temps...the Ulvaceus can reach 3' and are one of the most beautiful and graceful plants that i know of....some of these plants are already about 18" tall and are only 2 1/2 weeks old...


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## bullseyejoey (Aug 30, 2012)

Once again guys, "sharonkriss" replies like a bot. Mods should take a look at this.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

not no mo jo.........lol


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

bullseyejoey said:


> Once again guys, "sharonkriss" replies like a bot. Mods should take a look at this.


huh?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

PC.....he was just commenting on a post from a bot or spammer ; but i sent it away....


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## PuterChickFL (Feb 23, 2010)

oh ok, you work fast


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