# What am I doing wrong?



## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Ive been cycling my tank for about 2 months and somethings not right. btw, im doing a fishless cycle. At first everything was working fine. about 8 days i got my first decrease in ammonia and seen nitrite. Great, im making progress. It got to where my ammonia level would drop down to almost yellow and id add more to it to bring the levels back up to about 4ppm. Well last week my ammonia spiked without me even adding any So I leave it be and not put to much thought in it. Well today I checked it again and got the same dark green result with a lighter colored purple then usual and some nice orange nitrate. Is everything going as planned or did I fubar something along the way.

Heres a picture of most recent test results.

btw, will water temperature effect cycle process?


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

have you added anything to the tank that you have washed in tapwater?
bogwood soaked in tapwater? 
always wash things in dechlorinated tapwater if you must before it goes in the tank but dont wash anything in the tank while its on its cycle.
dont do any water changes till it has cycled..
turn your temps up to about 80 to cycle faster and plenter of air
just be patient, add your ammo when needed to get to 4ppm or abouts,


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Thats just it. I havn't done nothing but let it sit there. Not added anything, not taken anything out, no water changes. I just check it daily and add ammonia when I need to. Will water temp affect it because it did get really cold last week.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

depends how cold, have you no heater in the tank?
get one if not and get it up to 80 and add an airstone,
maybe you overdosed the ammonia?
just keep patient an go with it, keep calm and dont panic


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Got heater setup this morning and is at between 79 and 82. I shall see how this works for a week and go from there. This waiting game SUCKS!


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Change your water. If ammonia spikes too high like that it causes a stall in the cycle. The bacteria them selves are effected by such high ammonia. You have likley lost ground in the cycle. I would do a water change ASAP. Do not let ammonia go over 5ppm. Ideally i would keep it around 2ppm. The 4ppm recommended dose it a bit to high IMO as it makes a stall like this more likely.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Definitely do the water change- 50-60%- then check the ammonia, if it is still above 2 or 3ppm then don't add anymore until it starts to drop. Then add it to keep it closer to 2ppm. You have no nitrite showing and you will need that. It's possible the high ammonia is knocking the nitrite down. You should see it go up again before it falls. The good news is that your nitrate is in a pretty good range, so the tank is pretty close to being cycled. It will just need a chance to calm down from what it's currently doing. 

When you are showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and nitrate is present then you will want to do a large water change, add ammonia in to about 2ppm and if it is gone 24 hours later your cycle is finished. Add fish slowly. 

And this is why we do fishless cycling  No worrying about harming the fish when your cycle freaks out on you!


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Yep, that's the problem. If your ammonia is around 4, then it's no wonder you're having no luck. That much ammonia is enough to kill the bacteria. 3 is far more than enough, and 2 really will do the job just fine.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

pretty much mirrors the pm i sent when i couldnt post a reply to you, wouldnt say 4ppm is too high but it is pretty much the limit and it will cycle quicker if you got it to 2ppm once you see nitrite, check your ammo level every 12 hours and keep at 2, once in the morning then 12 hours later.... as i keep saying, be patient, one day very soon you will hit them 0's, do a water change to rid the nitrates and just dose your ammo one more time then as long as you hit the 0's again your good to go 

oh and you will need to low dose ammo till you stock it


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok after reading some of the answers and suggestions I did a 80% water change and left it alone for 2 days.

Heres test result after day 1









Heres test result after day 2.









Is it going in the right direction?


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

does look like ammonia is dropping, hard to say because of the shadow behind your tubes, always try in good light and watch the shadows, they darken the way the result looks, add another pic in a few days like the 3rd you put up before you add your next dose of ammonia and add nothing else except ammonia if needed
leave the adding ammonia till it near yellow then add a little more to dose to 1ppm or maybe 2, i would say 1 as your nitrites are high, check ammonia every 12 hours and dose if needed (remember to let ammo levels drop 1st as it is now)
you want nitrites to drop to 0.. once nitrites are 0 check your nitrates (they will be off the chart)
do a massive water change to get them as low as you can and dose your ammo to get to 1ppm,
check after 12 hours, if ammo and nitrites are 0 well done, if not dont panic..check after another 12 hours by now they should be 0, check your nitrates again, as long as they below 40ppm add your fish as soon as you can and let the fish add the ammonia, if your not adding fish straight away you will need to keep dosing ammonia to keep bacteria alive but make sure it 0 before you add fish.
if your nitrates are 40ppm or there abouts you can concentrate on getting that down as you go after fish are added, if nitrates are low in your source (and by your 1st and 2nd pic they are) every 3 days do a 30% water change and test for nitrates after 30 minutes each time, and try and get water temps the same as tank water before you add it,
soon you will have 0 ammo/nitrites and a low nitrate...
then you can pat yourself on the head sit back and enjoy your fish


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

You have nitrite  I'd not add anything for another day, see if things continue to go down. It's all still on the high side. That you have nitrite now is awesome! You don't want the nitrite to get any higher than it is.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, im going to leave it just like it is. Haven't touched it in 3 days and todays results looked the same as yesterday so im just gonna play the waiting game.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Everyday my little boy walks up to it and points and says fish, lol Hopefully soon I can say yeah.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

ROFL, it will get there cassper! It's doing well on its own. If you have fish food you could add a pinch of that. It won't add a whole lot of ammonia to the tank, but will keep it fed.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

wont be long... patience young jedi


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

weedkiller said:


> wont be long... patience young jedi


Ya, thats what I keep telling myself. Just have always seen and heard of people buying a tank and tossing fish in the same day that this is a little different.

I was just reading through our PMs


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yep, people cycle with fish all the time. Sometimes its fine and sometimes all the fish die. 
Be proud of yourself for doing it this way.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

emc7 said:


> Yep, people cycle with fish all the time. Sometimes its fine and sometimes all the fish die.
> Be proud of yourself for doing it this way.


exactly, it may be 'just a fish' to some.... if thats the attitude, why on earth are they considering having fish, usually they are the ones who are more likely to get bored of the water changes and let the fish swim in their own stew


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

I know, right? To me, fish are little lives who are totally dependant on me, so I must take that responsibility seriously. I enjoy trying to learn about each one's needs, and natural environs. If I lose one, I take it personally. When I was in the fish biz, customers would sometimes fuss when I wouldn't sell them a set up & fish the same day. I always had them come back the following week, water samples in hand. I know how exciting it is to set up, and how waiting for the cycle feels like eons, but the satisfaction of success is worth it!


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

That's how I feel. When I actually read into it, I was amazed at how I did everything wrong


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## kcrunch (Aug 17, 2012)

I dont think that people intend to hurt the fish but it just kinda sorta happens or they dont get something hardy to cycle the tank. I used fish but before they were too big After cycling I gave them away fortunately they didn't die. But I did lose a few fish starting out I think all of us have at some point in time and that is natural....


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

So its been a little over a week and im not noticing any changes in my results as I test daily. This is todays result. I have done nothing to tank since the water change. The temperature is at 82 like always.









it seems like its just stuck. Any advice?


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## wooferkitty (Mar 7, 2012)

if you don't want to do a fishless cycle I use feeder guppy's or leftover minnows from fishing, yes the chance of sickness in the tank goes up but given time and water changes it all works out great plus if feeders die no one cares


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

what ammonia are you using? cant understand why its stalled like that unless summin has been added that has stayedresident in the tank that is leaching summin that is killing the bacteria, whats in your tank?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have no idea what those little tubes are telling me...haven't used a test kit in decades..
but..........if it were me i would stop adding ammonia......do 4 or 5 40% water changes in a week ; and add a few fish..


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

Lets go from the beggining.....
You add dechlorinated water...
Start your filters and heater
Add ammonia and wait till it drops
When it drops check nitrite till it drops
Check nitrate and water change if nitrates high with dechlorinated water
Is there anything you have done different?


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

I've not added ammonia since the last time I posted. 

Yes that was the basic order I did stuff. Just havnt got past the stalled nitrite part.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

a couple of things to keep in mind....
it is rare that people do the tests properly...when you test.....before and after the equipment needs to be cleaned with deionized water....never allow hands or fingers to touch anything that may come in contact with the test sample or equipment...i.e.putting a finger over the top of the tube when shaking it...
testing water used to be part of one of my jobs...
there is a possibility that one or more of your test reagents are bad and giving you a false reading...
i would still just get some feeder fish and put them in...see how that affects the stalled cycle.


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## wooferkitty (Mar 7, 2012)

use feeders if you want to know if your tank will kill fish.......


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You don't want to starve the ammonia-eaters while waiting for the nitrite eaters. 

Either do a big water change and start adding some ammonia (doesn't have to be as much as you were using) *or *dose a product that seeds the filtration *or *get a seed from an established filter.


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

Can you "borrow" some used filter medium from someone? The bacteria in it would help. Just be sure to transport it it in a baggie with water, as if it were a fish. I cycled without fish, but never added ammonia. Did add plants, though. And shrimp. Well, maybe that didn't exactly count as a "fishless"cycle, after all... I begged used filter floss from an aquaintance, who kind looked at me funny.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

What exactly is "filter medium" Ill see if I can find somebody with a tank around.


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## Vayurules (Dec 7, 2012)

Filter medium is filter media. Any thing from cartridges to inserts, to anything really. As long as it been in an established tank for a good amount of time.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

anything in the filter that isn't spinning is media, floss, sponge, carbon, etc. Usually you can trim the edge of the floss on the cartridge w/o hurting it and it can be enough to jumpstart a stalled cycle. just put the piece in the filter.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

ok thanks. ill find that before I go buying a fish to be a test dummy


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2013)

I would not test the water every day. I would only test weekly, because each time you test you shut off the filter and that would disrupt the cycle. I think that is why your cycle is stalled. So test weekly. You have to give the tank a chance to cycle and testing every day doesn't give it a chance to cycle.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

why would you shut off the filter???
you only take 5ml for every vial and its the same water from the filter thats already in the tank.
filter media is the way to go but you still need to see why it stopped, the bacteria doesnt just die and we wouldnt like to see you do it again if its a mistake you made


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

Oops, did i say "medium"instead of "media?"ha ha! I guess a filter medium is a filter that tell the future? Thanx for translating for me, guys.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

even a container of gravel from an established tank would work well...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

media is the plural of medium. Personally, I think both are correct. Carbon is a filter medium, everything in the filter (sponge, floss, carbon) is media.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

weedkiller said:


> why would you shut off the filter???
> you only take 5ml for every vial and its the same water from the filter thats already in the tank.
> filter media is the way to go but you still need to see why it stopped, the bacteria doesnt just die and we wouldnt like to see you do it again if its a mistake you made


To get an accurate reading. When I test my water, I shut the power off to my tank. Test only takes 15 minutes to do, if you test all, pH, nitrate, ammonia, nitrite. It doesn't stress the fish out if you have the power to the tank off for 15 minutes. I have been doing this since I have been testing weekly.


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## Vayurules (Dec 7, 2012)

You could just take samples with a turkey baster or similar item, without powering off your whole system.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

Angelclown said:


> To get an accurate reading. When I test my water, I shut the power off to my tank. Test only takes 15 minutes to do, if you test all, pH, nitrate, ammonia, nitrite. It doesn't stress the fish out if you have the power to the tank off for 15 minutes. I have been doing this since I have been testing weekly.


im confused why you would do that but if its what you do who am i to stop you 



Vayurules said:


> You could just take samples with a turkey baster or similar item, without powering off your whole system.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


kinda like what i do, i use a syringe to extract 10ml and put 5ml in each, cant say ive ever had a problem with the results


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

This is what I do also. I took some water the the LFS and to pet smart and they all gave me the same reading. So I did a water change. I'm heading out for a couple hours and ill come home and do another one. If it doesn't fix it by
Tomorrow after I do another one. I don't know what else to do. I've done everything like everybody has told me and its not working for some apperant reason and tomorrow will be 3 months since I've started.


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## kcrunch (Aug 17, 2012)

Syringe all the way and I never shut down unless I am doing a filter cleaning/media change. I was actually told to get an accurate reading it is better to get what is circulating, I too used to test to much until Loha and a few others pointed out the error of my ways now I only test once in a blue and before a water change or filter maintenance. I was also using the stick tests which were not as accurate. I used 2 Tinfoil barbs to cycle with 2 Convict cichlids and a few plants. Did weekly water changes and all of the usual tests and all went well. Afterward I found a home for the Barbs and the Convicts IF I do another tank it might be for Barbs they are great to watch as they are extremely active.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

so all tests are accurate, you need to restart your cycle somehow and figure out why it has stopped, you need some used filter media or gravel that is a wee bit dirty, that is your best chance to restart it.... don't add no chems except ammonia when you need to, do not add no boosters, also what ammonia brand are you using? lets check that out, name an shame it.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

The ammonia from ace hardware. Not home right now so I can't see the brand but its the stuff without all the fufu crap in it


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## kcrunch (Aug 17, 2012)

Cant he add a shrimp in a stocking to help him out? Adding fish right now would be a crime and they most likely would not survive the experience. How about no more chems and just add a shrimp or 2 from the local fish market put them in a stocking and re test in a week. I still had my sand so I was fortunate when starting over besides something happened positive for me when it seemed like the tank went ballistic on me. It got worse and then all of a sudden BAM there I was ready to add fish.


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

I did water change earlier this morning and checked again earlier and had light blue nitrites and light green ammonia. So by doing this, did I start at zero or is that a good thing??


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## Vayurules (Dec 7, 2012)

I actually have a whole gallon of pure ammonia, I've only used less than a 1/8 of a cup of it to cycle my 20 fishless-ly.

But back to the topic, I used 2 drops per gallon, which after a bit of math and conversions totaled to about 1 1/2 tablespoons of ammonia. That dosed my to about 3-4 ppm, and I ended up cycling in 2 weeks.


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

get your ammonia back to 2ppm and wait, see if it disappears and turns to nitrite.
if you know any one with a healthy tank squeeze their juice from a filter into a bag and pour that onto your media if you cant get their media.
Its all you can do for the moment, need to kick start again


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## cassperr (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok, after 9000 water changes ok not that many, but I did like 3x a day for a couple days. Checked it. Zilch, added one drop of ammonia and today I have this. Are we on the right track?


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## weedkiller (Nov 18, 2012)

if your nitrites was 0 before that pic then yes, keep you ammonia at 2ppm, wait till the ammonia has gone near 0 before you add anymore


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