# Beginner Freshwater, yep that's me.



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

I am new to the hobby. I purchase and set up a new 70 gallon fresh water planted tank on February 16th. The tank measures 36” (left to right), 18” (front to back), and 25” (top to bottom). I started with fishless cycling using ammonia for the first week. Ammonia was from Wal-Mart and contained ‘chelating agents’. Hardness went through the roof so I did a 95% w/c and started over, cycling with 10 small fish. Fish are doing fine so far. I am at the end of the second week of cycling. Ammonia is 0.00, Nitrites are ranging 0.50 to 1.0, and Nitrates are usually at 5.00 or 10.00. Phosphates are 0.00. I have hard well water. The kH is 7 and the dH is usually around 15. The pH has fluctuated from 7.2 up to 8.4 (usually below 8.0). I have done several major water changes. Filtering with Fluval 405 (top 2 trays have BioMax, bottom 2 trays have carbon, ClearMax, and Pre-Filter). Lights are Tek-Lights 156 watts (T-5 HO), turned on 10 hours / day.

My problem is Fuzz Algae, sort of brownish in color and attaching to plants and objects. It flows in the water like hair. It’s not Thread or Brush Algae. I have been burning just half the lights (2 of the 4 lamps). Yesterday, I decided to turn all 4 lamps on to try to accelerate plant growth (to consume more nutrients and stave the algae). This morning the tank is very cloudy (with algae, I think). I don’t know if I should just keep doing what I’m doing and give it time to become established, or if I should start over or what. The Algae is taking over the tank and I need help.


----------



## Mr Incognito (Feb 24, 2008)

First thing is that I dont think youre supposed to do water changes like that when youre cycling your tank. Also theres really no reason to have your light on for 10 hours during cycling and thats probably helping the algae grow. I know that having your light on for overly long helps bad bacteria and such grow. As for the algae, could it be something that was already in the water since you use well water?


----------



## Guest (Feb 29, 2008)

From what I'read, he already has plants, which would explain the lights being on for 10 hours a day. What kinds of plants do you have? I would try a black out. I had really bad green water, so I turned the lights off for 4 days, and when I turned them back on, my water was crystal clear. and yes, I did have plants, but they were anubias, so they were okay with the lack of light. 

what kind of fish do you have? is the water green cloudy, white cloudy, or brown cloudy? White cloudy would be a bacterial bloom, which is from the cycle...it should go away within a few days. Green cloudy would be an algae bloom, and I recomend 15-20% water changes daily, along with a black out until you water is clear. I'm not sure what brown cloudy would be from. About a week ago, I did a normal water change on my 10 gallon, and switched lights of of another one of my tanks(instead of 2 20 inch flourescent fixtures, I had a 28 watt t-5 and a 15 watt flourescent) and 2 days later, when I came home from school, my water was brown...so brown I couldn't see anything....I immediatly did a 30% water change, and took the t-5 off, and put my second 15 watt flourescent fixture back on, and the next morning, my water was clear again.

hope that helps.


----------



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

> What kinds of plants do you have?


I have probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 plants. A variety from Anubius to Amazon Sword. Mostly fast growers.



> I would try a black out.


 Do you just turn the lights off or is there more involved?

Here's pictures of the Algae in my tank. Can't find anything on web that is an exact match. Anyone know what this is (name) so I can find the solution? Well I can't find a way to attach pictures.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii288/manwithnofish/Algae010.jpg


----------



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

*Pictures*

Here's what it looked like yesterday before I did a 90% w/c.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii288/manwithnofish/Algae010.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii288/manwithnofish/Algae013.jpg


----------



## mesapod (Aug 18, 2007)

That does look pretty bad. Did your waterchange help?


----------



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

Yes it helps enormously, however if I turn the lights back on several hours a day, it comes right back within a week. Some folks say that all this is just normal and will all go away when the tank "matures". I sure hope they are right.


----------



## Guest (Mar 2, 2008)

How many watts do you have over the tank?


----------



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

From my original post:


> Lights are Tek-Lights 156 watts (T-5 HO), turned on 10 hours / day.
> I have been burning just half the lights (2 of the 4 lamps). Yesterday, I decided to turn all 4 lamps on to try to accelerate plant growth (to consume more nutrients and stave the algae).


All 4 lamps are identical 6700k lamps. I've been cutting back to around 6 to 8 hours since the 90% w/c.


----------



## Guest (Mar 2, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't read it thoroughly. 


How high did your ammonia get? I know that high ammonia can lead to algae, but I'm assuming since you used fish that you did alot of water changes.

Also, what all fast growing plants do you have? You may need even more to outcompete the nutrients.

For now, cut the lighting back to 6-7 hours, but use all 4 bulbs. Remove as much of the algae as you can, even if it means cutting off some leaves/stems and trimming the plants way back. They'll grow back. Do small water changes to keep the nitrIte level down for the fish. You have a good deal of light with the T5 HOs, so you should start dosing some fertilizers. This should make the plants healthier and make them grow faster. I suggest getting some potassium and some trace nutrients, like Flourish. Dose each of them twice a week on separate days. 

Keep picking out what you can, even if it means cutting the plants back. Hopefully when you get your nutrients balanced and get more stem plants in the tank, the algae will be outcompeted.


----------



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

Also from my orginal post (not trying to be rude):


> I started with fishless cycling using ammonia for the first week. Ammonia was from Wal-Mart and contained ‘chelating agents’. Hardness went through the roof so I did a 95% w/c and started over, cycling with 10 small fish.


Now maybe we're getting to the source of the problem. I personally think this is it, but what do I know?

I dosed the tank with the ammonia I got from Wal-Mart as follows:
2/16/2008 Added 70 ml Cycle and 40 ml Ammonia 
2/16/2008 Measured Ammonia	7.00 
2/17/2008 Measured Ammonia	5.00 
2/18/2008 Measured NH3 and NO2 4.00	0.25	
2/20/2008 Measured NH3, NO2, & NO3	3.00	1.00	10.00
2/20/2008 Added 5 ml Ammonia 
2/21/2008 Measured NH3, NO2, & NO3	1.00	2.00	5.00
2/21/2008 Added 20 ml Ammonia 
2/22/2008 Measured NH3, NO2, & NO3	0.25	2.00	60.00
2/22/2008 50% water change + added 30 ml Ammonia 
2/23/2008 Measured NH3 and NO2	2.00	2.00	
2/23/2008 Added 30 ml Ammonia + 25 ml Cycle 
2/24/2008 Measured Everything	0.00	1.00	5.00
2/24/2008 gH was 483. Decided to end fishless cycle.
2/24/2008 95% water change (planted new plants) checked water paramters 
2/25/2008 Started cycling with fish. (added 10 small fish)

I stuffed the tank with all the plants we could fit in. All fast growing (as I could find).
Here is the tank after a 90% w/c w/new plants.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii288/manwithnofish/IMG_0184.jpg


----------



## lochness (Jan 10, 2006)

looks much better and welcome to the hobby and FF and congratz on a 70gallon! 

after the 4-7 weeks of the cycle, what fish do you slowly plan to stock it with and what's in it now?


----------



## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Eco-complete substrate, and yet you're still trying to cycle the tank with ammonia?
Well, there's your problem. Eco-complete is pretty much the freshwater answer to livesand. It's already almost cycled once the dust settles. Close enough, anyway, after the obvious mini-cycle from the moving.

Stop adding ammonia. Once you have nitrate, you don't need it anyway, and with all those plants, you're not going to get much more. Most plants eat ammonia directly, replacing the need for bacteria, and putting the brakes on the traditional cycle to an extent. The ammonia you add isn't helping anymore, and is in fact hurting. Just leave things alone for a week and see what happens.
Oh, and return your lights to normal. The algae may surge for a short while, but it will disappear soon enough once the plants get a foothold and get to work.


----------



## Manwithnofish (Jan 28, 2008)

> what fish do you slowly plan to stock it with and what's in it now?


Well I started with 5 Danios, 3 Otos, 1 Ruby Shark & 1 Flying Fox.
I then added a Clown Pleco & about 5 more Otos and a bunch of Ghost Shrimp. We have 6 Black Mollies in a separate 10 gal tank that we will add later. My wife's in charge of the fish, I have no fish. :console: 



> Eco-complete substrate, and yet you're still trying to cycle the tank with ammonia?
> Well, there's your problem. Eco-complete is pretty much the freshwater answer to livesand.


It's actually a mixture of Eco-Complete (40lbs) and Flourite (60 lbs). Eco on bottom layer.

Wow...unbelievable. I posted this exact thread on 5 different forums and you are the first to tell me that. Boy have I gotten a lot of different answers. I was pretty sure that it had to be the ammonia, but I couldn't get anyone to say so...(all the fishless cycling stuff says keep adding ammonia until the cycle completes 4 weeks later). I stopped the ammonia at the end of the first week and basic did a 95% w/c and started over with the fish. I still have some cloudyness, but it's definitely getting better.

Here's my main concern now. The 156 watts of T-5 HO is apparently High to Very High Light, particularly with no dosing and no CO2 suppliment. Folks say I can just cut that in half ( the Tek-Light consists of 4 lamps, 2 lamps on separate switches, so I can just run 2 lamps). And perhaps I won't have to add CO2 and ferts. But I want the plants. I just can't do the pressurized CO2 at this point. Here's the tank now. Do you see a problem?
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii288/manwithnofish/IMG_0200.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii288/manwithnofish/IMG_0197.jpg


----------

