# I'm New and Need Advice



## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Hi,

This is my first post and I'm new to the fishy community. Forgive me, but this is going to be a long post.

I'm almost 16 years old and I have always been an avid animal lover, although I never went overboard like some of the people that own 10 dogs, 20 cats, 30 rats, etc. I just own a dog  and love him very much (my parents have always believed strongly that you don't need to own something in order to enjoy it so they never really let me get anymore pets). Well today, my dad and I were discussing taking up fish again (we have always had a fetish for the fancy goldfish). My dad has always had a huge passion for fish and we have had many fish in the past. But the problem is: They have never really lived longer than 3 years! So, my dad has given up fish because he finds that he can never keep them alive, although he really wishes he could own them. Well in our discussion today, he was saying that we should "start out small" first and get a small tank with one or two fish and then once we know how to take care of them, we should upgrade to a larger tank. I can see where he's coming from but I don't know if that's such a great idea because cheap large tanks are hard to comeby and its hard to sell tanks. Does it really make any difference whether you start out small or large (not like a huge community of fish to start out but like starting out with a large tank but with only a few fish)? We do have fish experience and I would just like to get a large (55 gallon MAX) to begin with because I know its a pain in the butt trying to sell/buy fish tanks. Any advice? Also, what are the essentials of ensuring a long and happy life for a fancy goldfish? I have done tons of research online but I keep reading different things and I don't know who or what to listen to (especially not the people at the pet store). What items would I need (and which products are the best)? What food? etc. Any other info?

So, can anybody please provide me any basics/advice? I miss having fish. I love their beauty and the calming sensation that they seem to bring to any household.

Thanks!!


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## 207lauras (Jan 28, 2009)

*Welcome!*

I am relatively new here as well but from what I have learned from the nice folks here, The bigger the tank the easier it is to keep. This is because something like an ammonia spike can quickly devastate a small tank where as if you have a large amount of water to work with, it gives you a little more wiggle room as far as dealing with any problems that can arise. I started a few months ago with a 10 gallon and have just purchased a 40 gallon! Also from what I have learned here, goldfish are very messy and you shouldnt have anything less than a 40 gallon if you want to keep one, I am pretty sure that is 1 goldfish per 40 gallons... This seemed weird to me because I had one as a kid that lived in a fishbowl with no aeration for 3 years...
Anyhow, the nice folks here can help with EVERYTHING~
Also you may want to search around this site to get tips on how to cycle a new tank, this is probably the #1 most important thing to do when setting up a new tank~
Lastly~ I had a fancy bubble-eye goldfish for my daughter about 3 years ago, set up in a 10 gallon (and I thought I was giving it plenty of room at the time...) and one of the pouches around the eye got stuck in the intake at the bottom of the filter (even with the grate around the bottom) thankfully it was fine but watch out for that!


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Goldfish are very special fish that need a lot of room, heavy filtration, and a lot of plant matter in their diet. A good guideline to go by is 1 fancy goldfish/15 gallons of water with a minimum of a 20 gallon tank. A goldfish can live for 20 or more years with proper husbandry.


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks for the quick responses!

Yeah I read about large tanks/ammonia and it made sense. From my research, I've gotten results that stated goldfish need at least 15-55 gallons for one goldfish.

Also, what kind of filters/heaters will I need? The petstore employee (a very reputable one) said an undergravel filter as well as a top filter and a heater is mandatory. Anything else? What kind of live plants are good to put into the tank? Would an algae eater be helpful to decrease bacteria growth?

Thanks!!


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## Chrispy (Oct 28, 2007)

if I were you I would find a tank on criegslist. You can get a fairly nice tank for pretty cheap and use that money for add ons for the tank.


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Yeah, that's where I'm looking. I don't know what size to be looking for though. I'm thinking a 55 gallon....? Those seem to be pretty common.


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## Albino_101 (Aug 14, 2008)

A 55 gallon would be good for 2 goldfish but goldfish produce a good amount of ammonia so you either need good filters, weekly water changes, or both.(In my own opinion) Goldfish tend to live pretty long with a properly sized tank and maintained ammonia levels. But I hate when people buy these small goldfish, put them in a 2 gallon bowl, and then when they get bigger and die within a year or two they wonder why they don't live.(I'm not saying you did that)


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

UG filters aren't necessary. I'd get a HOB filter rated for twice the capacity of the tank, and you'd be good to go.

Unless your house experiences large fluctuations in temp, you shouldn't need a heater for them.

An algae eater will do nothing to decrease bacterial growth...that doesn't even make sense. A pleco (common algae eating fish) will only make your tank dirtier in the long run because another fish=more poop=more waste for algae to feed on. Algae-eating fish are never really necessary in a well-maintained tank.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

goldfish are pretty cool.and they can often outlive humans.they are coldwater fish;so skip the heater..what you do want is plenty of gentle filtration.some folks don't like undergravel filters;but i do.i have been using them for 35 years.were it me;i would use an undergravel filter with a good high output airpump and an aquaclear 110 HOB power filter.and even with good filtration,you will need to do about 25-30% water changes every week.not many live plants that you could use as the goldfish will eat most.anubias and java fern should work well. 
diet is important...try not to use floating foods.and best to use foods especially formulated for goldfish.and do give them some vegetable matter on a regular basis..
and i would not put any more than 3 or 4 fish in the 55...


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I think whatever you choose it should be this basic layout

55 gallon tank
2 filters of some sort
3-4 goldfish


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Wait so....
I should use an undergravel filter or not? And the other filter should be an HBO 105 (ah, sorry I don't know what these terms mean) Or should I get two of those filters ?? What about a water pump? Is HBO a brand of filter? *feels stupid*

No heater. Got it.
What about chemicals? Should I put any chemicals into the water? What kind of vegetable matter?
And I plan on using the siphon once a week to clean the tank in addition to the filter.

Can they eat brine shrimp?


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

best to stay away from UGF. theyre more of a hassle then theyre worth. in fact they add almost nothing positive to yout rank.

best bet is to get a good HOB filter or small canister.


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Would I need two HOB filters? Or one? Anything else in the tank? Any kind of live plants?
Thanks soooo much everyone! You have no idea how much this helps!
Also, can someone explain the fish cycle to me (and what I have to do with it).


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

if youre only doing up to a 55g tank, you can get away with one big HOB filter. if youre planning to have a large stock, you may want to do 2


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

I only plan on getting 3 or 4 small fancy goldfish. What HOB filter is best (brand and power-wise)? Also, is that everything that I would need for the tank equipment-wise?


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

goldfish are messy from what i hear (i dont keep them personally for more then a week. all my goldfish are feeders) so i would go with 2 AC110 HOB filters.


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Where can I buy those?


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

your LFS might carry them. some only carry marineland, but i stay away from the bio-wheel filters. if you cant find them locally, you can always get them online, and cheap


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Okay, so two HOB filters should be sufficient for a 55 gallon tank? Nothing else?
Also, do I just put one on each end or something? Or do I put them side by side?
Sorry for my questions!
By the way, I found this fantastic website with tons of goldfish care information:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/index.html


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

2 on either side of the back will work. usually your hood will have openings for the hob filters
that will be more then enough as far as filtration goes. the rest is up to you. idk about heaters and what not. that all depends on your situation, and the needs of the fish. but as i dont keep them, i dont know for sure. if you found a goldfish site, you should be able to get all the needs of the fish and more off of it


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

A couple of things...

"Fancy" goldfish is too broad a term. Do you mean Ryukin, Shubunkin? Big, thick bodies? Small bodies, long fins and tails? etc., etc.

Goldfish need big tanks. Big. In a 55, you could maybe put five of the smallest bodied fancies.

Unless you live in a warm climate, you will need a heater. I would suggest that you keep the temp at 68 to 70 F, and keep it constant. 

As for filtration, you will need a lot of it. Undergravel or sponges just won't cut it for goldfish. Too much poop. I would suggest several power filters, such as a pair of Emperor 400s or some big canisters.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

2 HOB filters will be sufficient... I use biowheels almost exclusively and never have a problem with ammonia and nitrite even when I clean my filters. I would suggest 2 X penguin 200 or a penguin 350.


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

COM said:


> A couple of things...
> 
> "Fancy" goldfish is too broad a term. Do you mean Ryukin, Shubunkin? Big, thick bodies? Small bodies, long fins and tails? etc., etc.
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure yet. But I'm thinking the double tailed dorsal fin kind of goldfish (like fantails and Ryukins, etc.)


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Fishfirst said:


> 2 HOB filters will be sufficient... I use biowheels almost exclusively and never have a problem with ammonia and nitrite even when I clean my filters. I would suggest 2 X penguin 200 or a penguin 350.


How noisy are the penguin 350's? Would I only need ONE penguin 350?

Also, does anyone have good experience with buying on craigslist? I see some classifieds that offer fish tanks as well as filters (like the penguins) but I don't know if its logical to buy them used or to just buy a new one.


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

theyre not that much noisier then the aquaclear filters, only thing noticeably different is the sound from the spray bar. however the require more electricity, have a lower flowrate, have a harder maintenance, and the faulty bio-wheel design is dependent on a spray bar system that often gets clogged causing the bio-wheel to stop spinning and thus rendering it ineffective for the small amount of bio-filtration it was previously doing.

on the positive side, they are cheaper initially. but you get what you pay for. 
and you will have to replace the filter media in the emperor filters quite often, as opposed to the aquaclear, that does not require replacement cartridges


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Lol, there are downsides to everything.
Does one seem to work better than the other? Or are they both the same.


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

The ynnaJ said:


> Also, does anyone have good experience with buying on craigslist? I see some classifieds that offer fish tanks as well as filters (like the penguins) but I don't know if its logical to buy them used or to just buy a new one.


you are likely to find a great deal on craigslist. as long as the equipment is in good working condition, i dont see why not. you will save a lot of money buying second hand.
however, if you are not familiar with the equipment, i would suggest taking along someone who does to help you inspect the equipment. unfortunately, you cant always take the sellers word for it.
the benefit of buying it new is that you know its brand new and working perfectly. and if not, you can return it.


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## aspects (Feb 1, 2009)

The ynnaJ said:


> Lol, there are downsides to everything.
> Does one seem to work better than the other? Or are they both the same.


everything i have read and seen personally (as i have used both) points to the aquaclear being far superior. once i tried both for myself and found the aquaclear to be much better, i have never gone back to a bio-wheel.

in the end, most people will go by which one they like better, with absolute disregard for which one works better. and thats fine. you would really have to decide for yourself in the end. 

as far as im concerned, the bio-wheel is a gimmick, and not nearly as functional as theyre made out to be. you dont see bio wheels on professional canisters, rather the proper bio media, which happens to be the same stuff you would use in an aquaclear HOB. the choice is clear...aqua, that is. lol


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

a gimmick? Are you serious? I'm almost thinking you work for aquaclear lol. Penguins do not have a spray bar and will not clog... the cartridges SHOULD be replaced on EVERY filter, no matter the brand... I do not like the aquaclears because there is no way you can get rid of the stuff the mechanical filter picked up without taking out the biological media. Which makes biowheels much more effective especially for newer people to the hobby who have a tendency to want to change their filters too frequently. Oh and btw, the reason you DON'T see biowheels anywhere else has nothing to do with there lack of effectiveness rather, its a legal issue since marineland has a patent on the design. I have BOTH types of filters and I like the biowheels much better, and have no fear of disrupting my biological filter when I want to change the cartridge unlike when I change the sponge on my aquaclear.

Also I'd like to point out that at my place of work... we have 40 gallon tanks holding $12000 worth of clownfish right now, and guess what... we use a marineland system to keep the water in tip top shape. I put a great deal of trust into the biowheel method including my livelyhood.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I have used both the AquaClear and the Marineland Bio-Wheel type filters.

There is no question that the Marineland filters are of far superior quality, down to the very plastic that they are made of.

The Bio-Wheel system has been proven for over a decade and is used almost universally in new commercial and industrial applications, as FF points out.

Ehh, I guess this is the old Mac vs. PC, BMW vs. Mercedes, Coke vs. Pepsi argument.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

"Would I only need ONE penguin 350?"
Yes you would only need 1 penguin 350.


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## The ynnaJ (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks everyone!
Now all I need is to find a nice and large fish tank for a good price.


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