# Oranda Gulping



## Starlight_Guide (Feb 11, 2008)

When I got my Oranda I was told that he shouldnt go to the top of the tank and gulp because he will get an air bubble in his tummy. I bought special food so that he wouldnt have to take it off of the top. Later on I told the pet store lady that he seems to do it just for fun, and she basically made me feel horrible because "I shouldnt let him do that, and when I see him doing that, I should try and stop him... or I should feed him so he goes to the bottom." How can you stop a fish from doing what it wants to do?!

When we walk over towards the tank he swims as quick as he can down towards the bottom. Like he knows he is doing something wrong. Its so strange... Could he be bored and thats why he is doing it? How can I ...un-bore him if thats the case?

Anyways, The reason I am posting this is because I am worried he will get sick, his belly already looks bigger...and yesterday he was doing it and it looked like he lost his balance and did a kind of back flip....I cant sit next to his tank all day to make sure he doesnt swim to the top. Are there any reasons he could be doing this?

I have an air pump in there so its not a lack of oxygen. Ive burried the pump in some plants so the bubbles arent really bad at the top, and even if there are a few hes not going for those... he is just gulping in general. 

By the way...he is the only one in the tank, and its a 5 gallon tank. (I know it should be bigger, but its all that was available to me for the time being, when I get more money I will get him a bigger tank.) 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The most common reason for fish to gasp at the surface is because they aren't getting oxygen through their gills. This usually means ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Change water ASAP. For strange swimming, try a cooked pea without the shell. These deformed (double-tail) fish often have trouble with constipation with messes with their ability to control their buoyancy.


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## Starlight_Guide (Feb 11, 2008)

Ok. I tested the ammonia, and it is high. I cant figure out how to keep this down.

I will have to figure out what to do about that. I had seen on the back of "Stress Zyme" that it helps eliminate toxic ammonia and nitrate. Its not the 7th day yet, the 7th day would be Monday. Would it be ok to add a little bit more of this, or try something different? 

Also, I will have to try the pea! Thanks!


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## Starlight_Guide (Feb 11, 2008)

I put the pea in...see if that helps him. Would that work for guppys too or not? 

Still trying to sort out the amonia thing.

Also I have another question besides the ones stated above. The Jungle Fizzy tabs say "Add one tablet to each ten U.s. gallons (40 L) of aquarium water" I was told that you could use these (as whole tabs) in 5 gallons... that they are good for UP to 10 gallons. That doesnt seem right to me, so I wanted to see what other people thought.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Starlight, if you are stuck with a 5 gallon tank for an Oranda you are fighting a true battle indeed. I hear that you are already aware this is a problem, so you have a few options to make the best life possible for this fish in the meantime.

1. You can purchase a large rubbermaid/sterilite/tupperware etc container, they are dirt cheap (and you can get them clear too)! And you can house him in this while you save for a more appropriate tank (40+ gallons). The fish does not need a heater (Unless your house is regularly less than 65 degrees), so all you would need is a filter that would work for your rubbermaid container. You start with the filter you have on the 5 gallon, but get a bigger one ASAP. So that should be your next "purchase goal." Get a filter that will eventually go on the big tank you want to buy  Don't forget to toss his airstone in there  You can move all of the gravel and decos over as well, which will keep it cycled (provided it was cycled originally, right now your tank can't keep up with the bioload). 

2. While you think about doing what I just said do a 50% water change daily for this fish. If you have not changed the water in a while (more than a week) then start smaller at 20% and work up to 50% (like do a 20% today, 30% tomorrow 40% the next day then 50%). This will help immensely with your current ammonia problems. You would only need to gravel vac once a week unless you wanted to do it more often. If you do this you have some hope of saving the fish. You can go back to weekly water changes once you have him in a larger rubbermaid type container. This will solve your most immediate dilemma.

3. This is the most humane option: Take your fish back and buy another Oranda when you can house it appropriately. 

Goodluck with your fish. I hope that everything works out well! Keep your eyes open for good tanks that are large and cheap. I picked up a 100 gallon tank and solid oak stand and canopy for 100 bucks. It was in a guys front yard and they were moving and didn't want to move the tank. I know guppyart got like 10 free 10 gallon tanks. Things like this happen all the time! All you have to do is keep your eyes and ears peeled, and tell your friends to do the same! (It was actually my friend in the car with me who saw the tank I got).


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You should be able to use the whole tab or break it in half with a pill separator. Most dechlors are safe to overdose. I prefer Prime and Stability to StressZyme. It is safe to use StressZyme early, but you might not have any left for later. The theory is that it contains both ammonia to nitrite bacteria and nitrite to nitrate bacteria. Once your ammonia starts to go down, you add more so the nitrite eaters can get established. I don't know anyone who successfully cycled a tank with StressZyme, but lots who have with Stability. 

There are a few issues you need to understand about using a bacteria product like StressZyme to deal with your ammonia. Its not an immediate fix, it takes hours or days to help, in the mean time your fish are being poisoned.
Also, when the ammonia is very high (over 3), the bacteria just die and you don't get any benefit. Third, when they do work, they will create nitrite which is also toxic. 

To get your ammonia down you need to 
change water - 50% repeatedly into you reach a safe level
Stop feeding - food turns into ammonia, give them a few peas only for a few days. Ammonia poisoning is worse than being a little hungry. 

If you are very lucky, you are going through the 'cycling process' and once your tank is established you will only need to change water twice a week to deal with nitrate. 

If you are unlucky, or you feed heavily, the filter you have will never be able to handle all the ammonia produced by the food you feed. The ammonia will climb no matter what you do. This is what happens when your tank is overstocked and if it doesn't happen today, it can happen when your fish get bigger. One solution is a bigger tank and a bigger, faster, and/or more efficient filter. The other way to go is to not bother cycling the tank and change *all of the water* every time the ammonia or nitrite threatens to get to unsafe levels. A few weeks of trials should tell you how often this is. You put the fish in a glass, replace the water in the tank with new dechlorinated water and put the fish back. This is the way people keep fish alive in little bowls. 

The pea cure may work on guppies, it certainly won't hurt them to eat peas.


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## Starlight_Guide (Feb 11, 2008)

Ok. Thank You.


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## Starlight_Guide (Feb 11, 2008)

How many peas is too many for my Oranda?

I tried feeding the peas to the guppys, but they spit them back out. It was worth a try. Haha!*


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## Starlight_Guide (Feb 11, 2008)

Also, Im happy to report that my Oranda has started pooping a little bit again... (since I realized his tank was too small, Ive tried to keep up with taking that stuff out of the tank...) but it looks like a casing with airbubbles and some food here and there.... so he deffinatly has a bunch of air in his tummy.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can try cutting the peas smaller for the guppies, like in fourths. Its not that peas are bad, its just that anything you feed becomes ammonia, so keep feeding to the minimum until your tank cycles.


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