# Begginer Cichlids



## P.senegalus

I had an oscar until last year, and now I miss the guy. I've always liked the african cichlids, but I want to find out some more about them before I buy any. I had a few in mind that I like. The Labeotropheus fuelleborni (The one at liveaquaria)are beautiful, but I can only find them on the internet. No stores near me have them, so this is probably not an option.

I also really like the Demasoni Cichlid, Johanni Cichlid, Acei Cichlid, Colbalt Blue Zebra, Red Zebra, and Red Peacock. 

I have a few questions about these if someone can help. What size aquarium do these need, and water quality? Are any of these compatible?(I can do with just one of these if not). Does the johanni come in yellow too, or just blue? What are there personalities/ aggression? Are they grouping fish, or solitary or pairs? Are any of them smaller as adults than the rest?


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## mpfsr

just about all the answers you will need you can get here....

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/


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## P.senegalus

Thanks for the link.


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## kay-bee

*What size aquarium do these need*

minimum: 55gal, recommended: 75gal+

*I also really like the Demasoni Cichlid, Johanni Cichlid, Acei Cichlid, Colbalt Blue Zebra, Red Zebra, and Red Peacock...Are any of these compatible?*

All of the above cichlids excluding the peacock are mbuna's and are compatible to a degree. Peacocks and mbuna's aren't generally compatible. They originate from the same lake but occupy different biotopes and have different aggression levels and dietary requirements.

*Does the johanni come in yellow too, or just blue?* 

Both. Melanochromis johanni (common name "Johanni") are born yellow/yellowish. As the males mature they become horizontally striped blue/black fish, the females remain yellowish.

Not to be confused with Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (common name "Electric Blue Johanni") which are also horizontally stripped blue/black fish (both genders) and are superficially similar to Johanni's. 

*What are there personalities/ aggression? Are they grouping fish, or solitary or pairs? Are any of them smaller as adults than the rest?*

Mbuna's are aggressive and territorial. The degree of of which is dependent on variables (species, tank mates, tank size, gender ratio, aquascaping, etc).
Peacocks are generally less aggressive and territorial than mbuna's and are more apt to display aggression against rival male peacocks.

The african cichlids in question are best kept in groups of 8+ (more depending on tank size). Aggression increases when the group is small. Ideally, as they are polygamous breeders, they're best kept in harems (1 male per several females per species). "Demasoni cichlid" (better known as Pseudotropheus demasoni) are highly conspecific aggressive and are best kept in colonies of 12+ when keeping more than one (keeping less than a dozen of them increases the odds that they'll wipe each other out). The other cichlid species you mentioned can be kept in less numbers (example 1 male, 3 females). Demasoni's are smaller than the other species you mentioned (females max out at about 2.5"-3", males max out a 4").

Demasoni's are okay with other mbuna species. Zebra's are also dominant fish and their aggression can be directed toward other species, not just their own kind. They're apt to occupy the top levels of the tank's 'pecking order'.

Acei's are the least aggressive mbuna species among the one's you've mentioned. They get up to 6".


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## elitesrock

kay-bee said:


> *What size aquarium do these need*
> 
> minimum: 55gal, recommended: 75gal+
> 
> *I also really like the Demasoni Cichlid, Johanni Cichlid, Acei Cichlid, Colbalt Blue Zebra, Red Zebra, and Red Peacock...Are any of these compatible?*
> 
> All of the above cichlids excluding the peacock are mbuna's and are compatible to a degree. Peacocks and mbuna's aren't generally compatible. They originate from the same lake but occupy different biotopes and have different aggression levels and dietary requirements.
> 
> *Does the johanni come in yellow too, or just blue?*
> 
> Both. Melanochromis johanni (common name "Johanni") are born yellow/yellowish. As the males mature they become horizontally striped blue/black fish, the females remain yellowish.
> 
> Not to be confused with Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (common name "Electric Blue Johanni") which are also horizontally stripped blue/black fish (both genders) and are superficially similar to Johanni's.
> 
> *What are there personalities/ aggression? Are they grouping fish, or solitary or pairs? Are any of them smaller as adults than the rest?*
> 
> Mbuna's are aggressive and territorial. The degree of of which is dependent on variables (species, tank mates, tank size, gender ratio, aquascaping, etc).
> Peacocks are generally less aggressive and territorial than mbuna's and are more apt to display aggression against rival male peacocks.
> 
> The african cichlids in question are best kept in groups of 8+ (more depending on tank size). Aggression increases when the group is small. Ideally, as they are polygamous breeders, they're best kept in harems (1 male per several females per species). "Demasoni cichlid" (better known as Pseudotropheus demasoni) are highly conspecific aggressive and are best kept in colonies of 12+ when keeping more than one (keeping less than a dozen of them increases the odds that they'll wipe each other out). The other cichlid species you mentioned can be kept in less numbers (example 1 male, 3 females). Demasoni's are smaller than the other species you mentioned (females max out at about 2.5"-3", males max out a 4").
> 
> Demasoni's are okay with other mbuna species. Zebra's are also dominant fish and their aggression can be directed toward other species, not just their own kind. They're apt to occupy the top levels of the tank's 'pecking order'.
> 
> Acei's are the least aggressive mbuna species among the one's you've mentioned. They get up to 6".


I agree with all of this. I have the Yellow Tail Acei's and they are amazing. They are very aware of their sorroundings and are very active. I also like the Demasoni they grow s,all but are aggresive so I would only get one.


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## P.senegalus

kay-bee said:


> *What size aquarium do these need*
> 
> minimum: 55gal, recommended: 75gal+
> 
> *I also really like the Demasoni Cichlid, Johanni Cichlid, Acei Cichlid, Colbalt Blue Zebra, Red Zebra, and Red Peacock...Are any of these compatible?*
> 
> All of the above cichlids excluding the peacock are mbuna's and are compatible to a degree. Peacocks and mbuna's aren't generally compatible. They originate from the same lake but occupy different biotopes and have different aggression levels and dietary requirements.
> 
> *Does the johanni come in yellow too, or just blue?*
> 
> Both. Melanochromis johanni (common name "Johanni") are born yellow/yellowish. As the males mature they become horizontally striped blue/black fish, the females remain yellowish.
> 
> Not to be confused with Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (common name "Electric Blue Johanni") which are also horizontally stripped blue/black fish (both genders) and are superficially similar to Johanni's.
> 
> *What are there personalities/ aggression? Are they grouping fish, or solitary or pairs? Are any of them smaller as adults than the rest?*
> 
> Mbuna's are aggressive and territorial. The degree of of which is dependent on variables (species, tank mates, tank size, gender ratio, aquascaping, etc).
> Peacocks are generally less aggressive and territorial than mbuna's and are more apt to display aggression against rival male peacocks.
> 
> The african cichlids in question are best kept in groups of 8+ (more depending on tank size). Aggression increases when the group is small. Ideally, as they are polygamous breeders, they're best kept in harems (1 male per several females per species). "Demasoni cichlid" (better known as Pseudotropheus demasoni) are highly conspecific aggressive and are best kept in colonies of 12+ when keeping more than one (keeping less than a dozen of them increases the odds that they'll wipe each other out). The other cichlid species you mentioned can be kept in less numbers (example 1 male, 3 females). Demasoni's are smaller than the other species you mentioned (females max out at about 2.5"-3", males max out a 4").
> 
> Demasoni's are okay with other mbuna species. Zebra's are also dominant fish and their aggression can be directed toward other species, not just their own kind. They're apt to occupy the top levels of the tank's 'pecking order'.
> 
> Acei's are the least aggressive mbuna species among the one's you've mentioned. They get up to 6".


Thank you soo much. This was very helpful info, you helped me narrow my choices to 3 (Melanochromis johanni, Acei, or peacock). The Melanochromis johanni is the one I can get at my pet store. My friend told me the females were yellow, but I wanted to be sure before I decided on one, I didn't want many males and 1 female. I like these because you can get 2 different colors with the same fish. 


I am going to wait until I save for a 75 gallon aquarium(hopefully bigger), but if I decide on the Acei, is there a tank mate that will do well with it? Maybe the M. johanni? I don't want mixed breeding if it's possible to keep 2 different cichlids together, but i'd like to have more than 1 color fish.
Also, are any of these mouthbrooding cichlids? 
You all have been very helpful here


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## elitesrock

I know Yellow Tail Acei's are. Never got around to keeping the Pea ****************, he died the first day. 

OB Peacock is blocked why?


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## emc7

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php


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## kay-bee

All of the cichlids you've inquired about are mouthbrooders.

*The Melanochromis johanni is the one I can get at my pet store. My friend told me the females were yellow*

That is correct when considering matured or maturing specimens. Juvenile males are also yellow. 

*if I decide on the Acei, is there a tank mate that will do well with it?* 

Acei's are pretty much compatible with most mbuna species. They're fairly peaceful (for mbuna's) and would probably be best kept with other mbuna's of similar temperments...or in larger numbers if kept with the more aggressive species.


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## P.senegalus

Thank you again. I'm going to see if my pet store has the acei and if they do i'll save up for them. Maybe I'll get the johanni when I have more cichlid experience.


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## P.senegalus

The johanni at liveaquaria(where I was going to buy it) says it is M. cyaneorhabdos. Is there any other recommended online places to get M. johanni?
I found Melanochromis johanni "Gome", at livefishdirect. Is this the same fish as M. johanni?


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## kay-bee

*I found Melanochromis johanni "Gome", at livefishdirect. Is this the same fish as M. johanni*

Yes, it's the same species. 

'Gome' is one of the collection points at Lake Malawi where M. johanni are found and acquired.

I've never ordered from them but I've heard great reviews about davesfish.com .


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## Obsidian

Sorry about the peacock issue, our filter reads the last part as negative and has a hard time seeing that the word as a whole is fine and dandy  But apparently only some of the time. Go figure LOL


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## lohachata

when i was breeding africans i found out a few things ...
they do best in a PH or about 8.4......this can be maintained by using crushed coral or dolomite...
a 40 gallon long is an excellent tank size as the africans don't really need the depth...
the tank should be piled top to bottom with rocks such as tufa or texas holey rock..
i usually kept 20-30 adult fish in the 40's...althouigh overcrowded ; it reduces injuries to almost zero because the aggressors can't focus on just one fish...plus they have plenty of places to hide..
for the greatest selection of african cichlids try www.aquabid.com ...


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## P.senegalus

> I found Melanochromis johanni "Gome", at livefishdirect. Is this the same fish as M. johanni
> 
> Yes, it's the same species.
> 
> 'Gome' is one of the collection points at Lake Malawi where M. johanni are found and acquired.
> 
> I've never ordered from them but I've heard great reviews about davesfish.com .


Thanks, I didn't want to get the electric blues.



> when i was breeding africans i found out a few things ...
> they do best in a PH or about 8.4......this can be maintained by using crushed coral or dolomite...
> a 40 gallon long is an excellent tank size as the africans don't really need the depth...
> the tank should be piled top to bottom with rocks such as tufa or texas holey rock..
> i usually kept 20-30 adult fish in the 40's...althouigh overcrowded ; it reduces injuries to almost zero because the aggressors can't focus on just one fish...plus they have plenty of places to hide..
> for the greatest selection of african cichlids try www.aquabid.com ...


Thanks for the info  This helps a lot, a 40 or 45 gallon will be easier to find I think. So as long as I get a good filter and regular water changes I can 'crowd' them so they won't be too aggressive? 
I tested my water last night and the ph is right at 8.0.


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## P.senegalus

I was looking over the Africans again and found Pseudotropheus saulosi. I like how they sort of look like demasoni, and the petsmart near by has some, there're really colorful and look very young. I think I may try these as my 1st African instead of johanni.


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## kay-bee

Saulosi are a nice choice. And as with m. johanni, female p. saulosi are lso solid-yellowish, so you'll have two different color patterns among a single species.


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## emc7

Salousi are less mean than any melanochromis which makes them better for a smaller tank. IME they grow larger than demasoni and spend less time hidden in the rocks. I think they are are good choice.


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## P.senegalus

How much smaller of a tank? 55 gallons? 

I like how they should be less aggressive than my previous choice and I like the barring they have.


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## emc7

More like they won't need the 110 the johanni will.. I started my Salousi in a 30, moved them to 55, then a 70. And I still get chewed-tailed males when 3 color up at once. I have to pull them, let them recover, then sell them. A good harem fish. Definitely get a 4' long tank min. Its not worth moving them after 1 year when they grow up.


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## P.senegalus

I wanted a 125g, but I may have to just get a 75, now i'm glad I didn't already order the johanni  
I'm gonna stalk craigslist just in case I come across a good priced 75 or larger tank before I get any cichlid.


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## emc7

The are reasonably mild when young, but they just keep getting bigger and meaner. But they are just a bit smaller and milder than all the Maylandi/Metriaclima like Kenyi and red zebras. About 8-10 in a 70 would be a decent start, but you may need to pull surplus males until you get down to one or two.


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## P.senegalus

Ok, thanks. How many males could I safely keep in say, a 100g? Same amount as the 70g?
Edit to add: I found this-

"They are both born yellow and only the males become blue when they get sexually mature. Carrying females can develop male coloration too, probably to look aggressive in order to scare off potential fry robbers or to claim a territory to safely release the fry."

The ones I seen at the store were no larger than an inch, maybe 1 1/2 inches, but some looked like the blue barred males, and some were yellow. Were these something else I seen?


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