# Sand for FW Stingray



## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Okay well, after looking through many of my lfs, I cannot find what I want. I've made my desicion to start looking on the web for some sand. Of course there's the option of Home Depot sand, but a lot of that is sillica based. (Sillica is abrasive and will harm the rays) I would like something that settle's quickly, im going to be using a cansiter filter on the tank, along with a bio-wheel, and sand will destroy the impeller on the hang-on. As a matter of personal choice, I want something thats closer to white-sh sand, or black. Black because it looks cool, and white because it will bring out the rays color.
My price range is $3-$7/5lbs without rediculous freight shipping charges! Needs to have a 3/4" thick layer on a tank with a footprint of 72x18 any idea on how much ill need?. For those of you who are thinking that tank is to small, I will be changing tanks in the next 2-4 years to a 72x24.

On the note of stingrays...
Parameters? I've heard a lot of mixed oppinions on pH and others. I know they like slightly accidic water. And I've heard of them living in harder water. Around this time of the year my water is at 150ppm, if thats to high do you have a suggestion for a buffer? I know that Nitrites and Ammonia NEED to be 0, and they will before I add anything to the tank. PH? What does that need to be? My PH on my other tanks is arond 7.6, so im thinking it will be the same on the new tank without buffering. If I need to raise the PH, i've heard of baking soda? How much should I use, or what other buffers are there?

Thanks so much, Chris.


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

After a lot of reading about sand for rays, so many people said estes marine sand. I've been using it for almost a year now and they love it.

PH doesn't matter as long as its constant so unless your looking to breed them i wouldn't do anything to the water. Buffers can only cause problems. My rays are in very hard water and a ph of 7.4.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

I looked into Estes but couldn't find any sites that had it in 25lbs bags. I mean I've got nothing wrong with 5lbs but then it equals more box's.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

I personally used Black Tahitian Moon sand with my small retic. Overall, this type of sand is in 70% of my tanks- and with the ray, it seemed to like it. Allowed it to bury itself easily, was easy enough to "sift" around in, etc.
I remember talk about black sandblasting sand (I can't remember the type) that seemed to be perfect, look great, but was almost impossible to find.

And, with what Gump said, don't really worry about your pH- unless it's ridiculously high. Most species like slightly acidic water, but it's not something you need to stress over.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Do you know where I could order the sand? I've found a few places but they want 45 bucks for s&h. Thanks for all your help.  

-Chris


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

What species is the teacup ray you want? "Teacup ray" is far too ambiguous. The reason I ask is because rays get very large and need tanks with 24" width, MINIMUM.

As far as substrate, most ray owners use the Estes sand. I don't know any other alternatives though.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

I know, Im getting a 2/3 Hystrix rays. 24" will come in 2-4 years as stated above. I've got room to switch out the 135 for a 24" deep probably a 180 which is 72"x24". Which I will probably get off of treasure when he switches to all 8Ft tanks in the future. (Hopefully)

Okay what I need to know is, where can I buy Estes Sand Online?


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Hystrix rays get up to 16" across...not much turning room in a tank that is only 18" wide.

Wouldn't it make more sense to get a 180 gal now, rather than getting a 135 gal and then upgrading? Or do you already have the 135?

Either way, I wouldn't get a ray until you actually get the 180, much less 2.

Type "estes marine sand" into google to find estes sand.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Hystrix Rays get 12" across, unless in an extremly large aquarium. One of the reasons I chose the hystrix, is because it max's out a 12". And doesnt have an extremly long tail, like say a retic. I will be leaving room open for when I do get a 72x24. I don't know where you heard they get to 16" I've never read that. I've done my research, and almost all of the sources say they max out a 12" and some said that in rare cases they get to 14". Maybe 16" in the wild?


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

How about the most reputable source on fish on the internet - http://www.fishbase.org/

_Potamotrygon hystrix_ max out at almost 16". Of course, they usually do not reach that size, but you have to take it into account. You also have to take into account that rays are delicate and are very prone to health issues with unstable pH, but I'm sure you've already researched all that. 

They are for experts, not beginners.


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

Estes boxes are 6 5lb bags or one 25lb bag per box so you would get more sand with a 5lb case than a 25lb case. one case of 5lbs should do just fine in a 72-18.


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Here it is in 5lb bags:

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=103382


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Apothesis, I've done my research.  I actully just ordered 2 25lb bags. (Hopefully that will be enough but probably not) I understand that they are very sensitive to water conditions. I know how to acclimate them, and besided the tank and filter that treasure will be delivering. I am ready to get them and I have a place to aclimate them. 

Ill be taking a photo journal of the setup of the tank! I had a picture of the closet before, but It was on my cell phone. Which I lost. 

I appreciate the help guys, and any non-obvious pointers that I might have not seen would be appreciated!


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Good luck with them!

btw, here's is a sand depth calculator: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.php


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Woo! I ordered just the right amount, 50 pounds will make a 3/4 inch layer in my tank!  And All I need it 18 more pounds for a 1" layer ! Anywho, I was confused on the cleaning part. You probably could use a gravel vac, because well it would just suck up the sand.. So What do I do? 

Thank's everybody, ill put a LOT of work into these babes.  Ill get me some GUNS!  (As in muscles )


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

You can still use a gravel vac, but you have to angle it so that it sucks up part water, part sand:










Bad illustration but you get the idea. lol


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

OHH  Sweet. Now I just need to buy a bigger gravel vac.


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

when you have Rays in an aquatium, have their barb been cliped like the ones in aquariums that you can pet. not saying that i would pet my ray if i had one. However, if he ever stabbed me while i was trying to move him to clean the tank or something i would not be happy.


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

David, this thread had met its end, SBD is not even getting the rays anymore.

Please refrain from dragging old topics to the top of the forum.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Ill be hopefully getting rays in the distant future. But as for now my plan has to be put on hold.


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

Side not for anyone else reading, do not clip the rays stinger or put a cover on it. Some people cover the stinger with a cork to ship but you should remove it when you introduce them to the tank.


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

As long as you don't be stupid and mishandle the ray, you shouldn't need to clip the stinger.

It just seems wrong to me....mutilating your fish.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

Im not sure on this, but doesn't the rays tail fall off anyway? I know it falls off but as for the stinger don't they get new ones?


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Oh, I don't know. Maybe they shed them?

EDIT: nevermind, I found out that they do regrow them, only if they break off when defending themselves. So yea, if you were to clip the stinger, it would just regrow again.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

I knew it.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2007)

Well, they don't just regrow them if they fall off. They continuously grow new ones throughout their lives. When the new barb grows up enough, the other one falls out. This is why you may sometimes see a ray with "two barbs." Its also why you have to be careful cleaning the gravel/sand and keep in mind that they "shed" them every 3-6 months or so.


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Scuba Kid said:


> Well, they don't just regrow them if they fall off. They continuously grow new ones throughout their lives. When the new barb grows up enough, the other one falls out. This is why you may sometimes see a ray with "two barbs." Its also why you have to be careful cleaning the gravel/sand and keep in mind that they "shed" them every 3-6 months or so.


I will NEVER use wikipedia again. :evil: It has failed me so many times. LOL, it never said anything about them shedding their barbs. Only that "They regrow their stingers when they break off".


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

From here http://www.geocities.com/heartland/meadows/5590/ray.html


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

Scuba Kid said:


> Well, they don't just regrow them if they fall off. They continuously grow new ones throughout their lives. When the new barb grows up enough, the other one falls out. This is why you may sometimes see a ray with "two barbs." Its also why you have to be careful cleaning the gravel/sand and keep in mind that they "shed" them every 3-6 months or so.



Correct....


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## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

I had one with three at once one time... It's a good sign that they are doing well and growing.


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## SBDTHUR (Jun 15, 2007)

I know this post is pretty much dead but.. I heard that there was a guy on another forum that watched his ray shed it, and then he touched it and his arm went numb for like an half a day.

(Numbero 200)


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2007)

Well even though it isn't on the ray, it is still toxic if it punctures your skin. 

The spine itself is hard and bone-like. The toxin is between the spine itself and the skin sheeth that covers it. When the spine punctures something it also punctures the sheeth, releasing the toxin into the wound of whatever the ray hits. Therefore, doesn't really matter much if the the spine is still on the ray or not.

So he might have had a small cut or something on his hand or arm and the sheeth of the spine may have been broken....so a small amount of toxin could have entered somewhere on his hand.


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