# i give up



## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

hi guys
here are a few of my posts leading to why i'm thinking about giving up on fish at the moment


_hi guys
i bought my little betta for my son last saturday (3 days ago). he hasn't been eating but i figured he was just getting used to his tank. i have him in a large bowl type set up. this evening he has become very lethargic and has white cotton wool type stuff on his body, i don't think it is Columnaris as he's not bleeding or showing any ulceration etc but it could be just starting. it is 9pm so of course nothing is open. i am going to ring the aquarium i bought him from tomorrow morning but i just thought i may be able to get some help here.
when i bought him we followed all the instructions, gradually got him into his bowl, let the water come to the right temp etc etc and he was happy at first. 
maybe the stress has bought this out?
any opinions / advice would be much appreciated. he is in the bowl by himself.
cheers
mel_
now my new one is just hanging around and not eating

_i went to a new pet shop and the girl there actually bred betta's and was a regular font of information!
she suggested placing a desk lamp over the bowl (2 gallon) during the day and then covering it at night to keep the heat in
i am hoping that this will help my little guy to actually become a bit active and eat something! i bought him some dried worms too but he's still not interested although he has deigned to sit in the real plant i bought rather than the silk one lol_

my new one is very very lethargic and has started getting little patches x2 of 'cotton wool' (very very small about the size of a pen nib)
at the moment he is resting up at the top of the bowl on a leaf and he's been swimming but very very slowly
i bought blood worms but he hasn't eaten anything since last sunday

i don't know what i'm doing wrong, i have friends who have betta's in small jars with nothing else in them and theirs are fine, mine has a deluxe palace with gravel, boat, silk plant and live plant and is going to die i just know it

i don't know what else to do! maybe i'm not meant to have fish!
have still got the light on and it has warmed the water but he's looking pretty tragic, the ends of the fins are very pale too.


mel


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

:rip: dorothy II

mel


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

water temp ? well water or city ? How are you treating the water ? how often are you doing Water changes ? 


RC


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## MarkMI (Aug 1, 2005)

it doesnt sound like you are doing anything wrong. It sounds to me, who is new here, that you just are getting sick fish from the start. Maybe you should try another source? I dont know.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

rc water temp would have probably dipped to 10 degrees (celcius) with the original fish but after i was told to use the lamp it would have kept it at 16 or so, even overnight. overnight i covered the tank so to keep the heat in (and took the cover off immediately in the morning)

i'm in the city

treating the water with betta water ager (a friend tested the ph and it was fine)

i did the last water change last thurs (3 or so days ago)

i spoke to my neighbour and he reckons i changed too much of the water (i have a 2 gallon / 10 litre bowl) and changed nearly all of it - he says i took all the bacteria out

markmi - i am trying just one more time! lol 
and am getting the fish from another source and my neighbour is going to help me with it. i am going to keep the fish in a little starter tank til my neighbour cleans his big tank then he says he'll give me some water to start my normal tank that will be already full of bacteria and we can introduce my fish to it

hell it can't hurt - he's got a tank full of tropical fish and 2 betta's (separately of course) and his are all alive

wish me luck!!!!


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## Jonno (May 22, 2005)

well i wish you luck, my betta nrly went the same way till i moved him to a 10 gal he loves it now and will soon be a dad!


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

congratulations on becoming a grandad soon lol
hmm 10 gall is a bit ambitious for me at the moment, but i will keep you posted!
mel


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## lwstinkinsweet (Aug 2, 2005)

i am feeling the same way as you right now mel&ned. i think my new fish might be sick also. just fin rot or an injury but i have had it with spending so much money to treat the water then to cure the fish when they sold it to me sick. except i have had mine a week and it is just starting to show signs. i dont know if that is because he got injured or it just was a slow progression. i have changed his water once completely and skimmed it out (all the food he only played with because it wasnt bloodworms) at least once every other day but mostly every day. so i dont think mine is the water. there have been no temp changes. his plant had some plastic but that is the only thing i can think he did is ripped/snagged it. i am hoping this will all settle down and i can just enjoy my fish


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

i know it's awful isn't it
i was told that optimum water would be some that you have had a couple of little fish in prior so there's bacteria already (yeah like you have some handy lol)

my friend said my fish died because my water was too clean - he said i should only do 25% water changes. i did 99% and he said there would have been hardly any bacteria in the water and the fish would have gone into shock
now this goes against what people have been saying on this site and others so i don't know what to believe!
fingers crossed with your little guy
mel


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

I used to change 100% of my betta water every week and he was perfectly fine.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

this one is from a new place and already looks much better (and has eaten - mine never did this), maybe the place i was getting them from wasn't great - although it does have a very good name
mel


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

Your friend is wrong. 100 water changes are what most betta breeders use. I've been doing 100% water changes since 1992 with bettas. I use 99% water changes on angels and discus fry.


RC


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

he says when you do 100% there is no bacteria and so the fish die
it does seem to concur with when mine died too i have to say

so, if you change 100% and condition the water etc it doesn't matter re the bacteria?
sorry for all the q's, i really want this one to stay alive!


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

What bacteria is he talking about ? If he means the ones that convert ammonia then that bacteria is in the filters and not in the water column. What little there is in the water doesn't do anything.


RC


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## Ajreoandoeka (Aug 11, 2005)

Sorry to ask, but in regards to the filter comment RC, what if the tank does not have a filter? Then where is the bacteria to convert ammonia?


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## blixem (Jun 13, 2005)

Ajreoandoeka said:


> Sorry to ask, but in regards to the filter comment RC, what if the tank does not have a filter? Then where is the bacteria to convert ammonia?


There isn't... well, there might be minute amounts on the substrate or walls of the tank, but not enough to do anything.


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## Ajreoandoeka (Aug 11, 2005)

Alright then, and in accordance with that, should 100% water changes be avoided if you don't have a filter?


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

100% WC's are even more important if you don't use a filter. You have to remove the ammonia from the water with water changes.


RC


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## Ajreoandoeka (Aug 11, 2005)

Alright good. I only did 50% with my first betta, but was planning on doing 100% when I get the new one.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

so when you do the 100%, you condition the water and add salt? is that right?


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

I don't use salt anymore, but I do add amquel and let my water age before I use it. I have a total of 150Gallons of change water in vats or aquariums in my fishroom ready to use at any one time. 


RC


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

so how long do you age it for? i was only aging mine for 4 hours or so, just to bring it to room temp
also, you add the purifier before you start aging it, is that right?


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

Mine ages overnite minimum. I do add the amquel when I refill the holding tanks.


RC


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## Ajreoandoeka (Aug 11, 2005)

I never did, but I was using well water...so I didn't need to condition....and I was dumb and didn't know to use salt. Not sure what I'll do next time, as I'll be at college with different water. Planning on bottled.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

thanks guys
this one is actually eating so thumbs up so far!


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

Glad to hear that!
I have a question, is using the decrations, gravel, live plants helping anything about the bacteria affairs?


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

i have no bloody idea lol
anyone else???


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## lwstinkinsweet (Aug 2, 2005)

i think i am going to give up. this new fish definitely has tail/fin rot. i had to buy a water test kit and my water was ph8.4 so i have to buy ph down to see if i can lower it without burning my fish. then i have to go and buy some medicine for his rot and i dont know what kind to get. this is getting way too expensive and i am getting a new job on campus and starting a crazy class schedule soon. i just dont know if i can do it anymore. if this fish doesnt get better and easier to care for i am not getting any more. not even of a different kind. i cant do this. i cant afford it if he doesnt get better. there is white gooey stuff in his water every once in a while. no idea what that is but it is probably making him sick. i feel like a failure as a fish owner. i cannot keep a fish healthy when they come seemingly so. i have had him for a week so it must be my fault that he has this. does anyone know if very alkaline water can damage their fins?? maybe it is that. i put salt in there. does that raise the ph?? i have to go to ohio to the toledo zoo today with my family. cant get out although i would like to so i can take care of poor prince.


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## Ajreoandoeka (Aug 11, 2005)

My suggestion to you would be maybe to do what I'm doing. I plan on waiting to get my next fish until I'm settled in at college as far as my schedule and room and such goes. That way it'll be calmer for me, and I'll be able to pay more attention to the fish...I think it would be very difficult trying to care for a fish too the first few days....


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## MarkMI (Aug 1, 2005)

From what I have read here, you dont NEED salt in the tank with them. Some people say it does help, and others have said it doesnt really do much of anything. I did go by some aquarium salt. Which is what you need. Not regular iodized salt, or Kosher salt. You can get it at PetCo for like 2.99 for a small like pint container. You use like 1 tsp for 1 gallon, or something. Nothing much.

Mellafix i believe is the name of the liquid for fixing fins, its like 4.99 a bottle, and again, you use small amounts. I use Splendid Betta Complete WAter Conditioner to take the chlorine out of the tap water. Again, like 1tsp for a gallon. I feed him Nutra Max Betta FOod. Its a flake food. He didnt each much the first day I got him, but hes fine now. Loves the stuff.

I have a 1 gallon 'triangle' shaped TopFin Aquarium, with two soft plastic plants and some blue gravel in the bottom. You have only had him a week. I change my water once a week, rinsing well the stones and plants and aquarium, NOT with soap, as i heard the soap will leave residue behind thats not good for the fish. If when washing your aquarium, you use a bare hand, you should be able to feel wether the sides are sort of 'slimey' or not. Once they arent 'slimey' anymore the tank is clean. 

Not to be nosey, but where in MI are you? Maybe it has something to do with well water, or something? I havent tested the PH of my water, it was one of the things I planned on getting this week. Last week was the salt.

I hope my little bit of knowledge helped. And good luck too.


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## (RC) (Jan 18, 2005)

8.4 PH is not a problem for Bettas. You should leave the ph alone.


RC


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## lwstinkinsweet (Aug 2, 2005)

he definitely has fin rot and i clean the tank completely once a week. i have now had him a week and a half and plan on doing a water change again tomorrow. i am in lapeer i have well water. everything checked out fine on my test (hardness, nitrite, nitrate) except ph and alkalinity, which i understand are basically the same. i may be wrong on that. someone told me that all i need to cure him is clean water. how do i know if there is chlorine in my water. what if i switch to bottled water? would that help at all? and how would i switch?? i dont want to send him into shock


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## MarkMI (Aug 1, 2005)

the petsmart by me here in Sterling Heights actually sells bottles of water near the bettas for use in aquariums. I dont know much about it. I THINK chlorine is normally used in water treatment to make it safe for drinking, so it may not be present in well water. I think it might be the well water that is causing the probme, but since i am new to this, dont take my word on that.


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

wow how many different betta topics could you fit in this thread?


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## Ajreoandoeka (Aug 11, 2005)

hehe well I guess alot 

to lwstinkinsweet: I have well water at my house, and it is completely free of chlorine....but I can't gaurantee the same about yours, it depends alot on where you live too. As far as checking for it, there is probably a test available....I can't really think of anything else you could use to find it. Maybe check around online to find out if there are any other chlorine detection methods....


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## lwstinkinsweet (Aug 2, 2005)

well all of the topics in this thread relate. mel&ned was ready to give up on fish because of all her problems with them and i am in the same boat and i am asking questions to get my fish healthier before i decide to give up. 

thanks to everyone for your advice. does anyone know how much bottled water costs to fill a tank with (the kind specially for bettas as i have also seen that). i think that kind is the kind my betta was kept in in the store since they sold it there but they never said anything about keeping him in it. i probably sent him into shock because he came home and i put him in my well water. i did a gradual introduction to the water but i think i have read that you have to keep them majorly in the same water for about a week adding like ten percent of the new water every week until you are completely using the new water. for now until i can see about the bottled water i am getting some stuff to help heal the rot and keeping all of his decorations out so i can use a turkey baster to suction out the food he likes to spit to the bottom (he wont eat pellets or flakes or brine shrimp but i keep trying so he will have more variety than just blood worms.) i think i will also do about a ten percent water change per day and see if he clears up and then i will decide whether to change his water or not.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

i can't help as i'm a total novice but wanted to wish your little guy good luck!
mel


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Good luck! And you aren't that bad of a fishkeeper. In a 15 gallon, before I knew better I had 6 bala sharks, 1 common pleco, 1 blue three spot gourami, 1 albino cory, 1 blueberry tetra, 1 guppy, and a few other fish that I can't remember now. And I didn't know to do water changes. Almost needless to say, I got ick and it killed all but the guppy, cory, one or two other fish, and the pleco (which I took to the petshop after a while). So you didn't mess up anywhere as close to as bad as I did, lol


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## lwstinkinsweet (Aug 2, 2005)

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I have a plan for treating him and keeping his water cleaner. I am going to do about ten to fifteen percent h2o changes every day and suck up the bottom with a turkey baster and all sorts of stuff i have figured out. i actually made a new thread about it to see if anyone had anything else i could do or if my "plan" would even work. you should check it out and advise me if you can because i do not want to lose this little guy. The thread is titled "treating fin rot" or something like that thanks for all your help


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

O.K. here's what you do. (Dilligence is the key here). Keep his temp at 80 degrees. Take everything out of the tank cept for the betta and water. Change water every 3 days with treated water (tapwater is fine but use dechlorinator that also removes or neutralizes ammonia and ammonium). Add reccommended doses of Melafix. Repeat for at least 2 weeks. He should clear up nicely if you do this.


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## MarkMI (Aug 1, 2005)

Ammonia might be the problem with well water. Not sure. Keep in mind that well water since it comes from the ground is prone to have all sorts of things in it from the surrounding areas. Your looking at natural things that are in any normal water, but also things like arsenic, and ammonia is prolly in there as well, as its a bi-product of most waste from people and animals. Keep in mind that almost all this is in Trace amounts, but for something that LIVES in the water, and for as sensitive as bettas seem to be, it would prolly do some harm.

I plan on running out tomorrow to check on the local stores for a new tank that I am thinking about getting, I will see what they have as far as prices on the bottled water.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

ok guys i have a record, over a week and he's still alive
yayyyyyyyy
mel


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## lwstinkinsweet (Aug 2, 2005)

Congratulations Mel&Ned. that is great. I think mine is starting to get better.


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## MarkMI (Aug 1, 2005)

awesome Mel. Glad to hear.


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## mel&ned (Jul 26, 2005)

thanks guys
glad to hear lwstinkinsweet that your fish is getting better too!


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