# Is my fish selection crazy or safe



## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

new 20 gallon tank. Planning on having the following:

3-6 Ghost Catfish (for sure dead set on this one)
4 guppies 
angelfish
a few tiger barbs
Some of those awesome looking yellow and gold fish, but they aren't goldfish I just cant remember what they are called. 

Some sort of bottom cleaners. Was thinking about going shrimp. 

Any suggestions?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I would avoid the angels and definitely skip the tiger barbs. Tiger Barbs can get bigger than you might think and they can also be super aggressive.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

Fair enough. Are angels aggressive? 

Anyways I have one more question. There was about 3 test kits last night at Petsmart. I got the one that tests for everything except ammonia. I figure if the nitrate is in line the ammonia should be ok. Should I take this test kit back and spend 10 dollars more for one that will test for ammonia? 

Thanks.


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

roaf85 said:


> 3-6 Ghost Catfish (for sure dead set on this one)
> 4 guppies
> angelfish
> a few tiger barbs
> ...


I would be apprehensive about mixing guppies with any semi-aggressive fish. You need to go with a common theme. If you are going to go with Glass cats then you are going to have to go with a community tank. I would go with X-Ray Tetras, Glass Cats, and maybe some Neon or Cardinal Tetras. Get you a small Bristlenise Pleco or mystery snail for algae and you should be good to go. 

A 20G is not large enough for angels as they like to be in pairs because it lowers their aggression. I would get the ammonia circular test that you hang inside the tank. I have one on each of my tanks because they last for a year or so the label claims. Ammonia is one of the fastest killers of fish after Chlorine/PH/Temperature.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Angels can be very aggressive, yes. They also will eat anything that they can get in their mouths.

As for your test kit, I have an API Master kit that I haven't touched in months. I know what ammonia smells like so I don't bother testing for it even when I do pull out the test kit. If your tank is cycled, the nitrate test will yield a positive reading, but if you're unfamiliar with fish keeping, an ammonia test could probably be useful.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can get an ammonia-only test at wal-mart for $5. If this is your very first tank, its a very good idea to have. It doesn't have to match the others.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> yellow and gold fish, but they aren't goldfish


Gold barbs?


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

I suppose I am a little confused about ammonia and nitrates. Why would anyone sell a compete test kit without the ammonia test. 

I guess I always figured that once my nitrates were good my ammonia levels should be in check? Do I have the wrong assumption? 

Can you expand more on the snails? I want an algae eating organism, and I was thinking shrimp, but people have told me that cleaning is painful for beginners with shrimp. 

Thanks for all your guys help and advice.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

emc7 said:


> Gold barbs?


No they are super small and they have yellow with a dark gold tail. The tail is longer like a guppy. Gosh I wish I could remember what they are called? Is there a freshwater reference website?


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## Ghost Knife (Mar 12, 2008)

roaf85 said:


> No they are super small and they have yellow with a dark gold tail. The tail is longer like a guppy. Gosh I wish I could remember what they are called? Is there a freshwater reference website?


Sounds like a Platy to me or maybe a Swordtail Platy.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ghost Knife said:


> Sounds like a Platy to me or maybe a Swordtail Platy.


Bingo. Yes I want those.

I was reading somewhere about how ghost catfish like a current to swim against. 

Should I even look into getting something like an air pump that would generate bubbles. I am going to be getting ornaments that release bubbles so I will probably need an air pump  

All this is adding up.


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

i would definitely get an air pump and a nice 40 or 50 gal filter for your 20...a school of platies with the glass cats would be nice, or a few smaller tetras.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Read the stickeys about the "nitrogen cycle" and "cycling" a tank. An established aquarium has no ammonia, so its not some thing I commonly test for. But it is the first thing that will kill your fish in a brand new tank.  Its good to test for ammonia & nitrite until you see them go up and then back down to 0. Then you skip the ammonia testing until you have a problem or add new fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Guppies, platies and glass cats should do ok together as long as you keep the numbers down. I would personally do either guppies or platies and have either 1 male & 4 females or all males (only way to get no babies) as males tend to harass females.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

FishHead said:


> i would definitely get an air pump and a nice 40 or 50 gal filter for your 20...a school of platies with the glass cats would be nice, or a few smaller tetras.


What I have right now is a top-fin 20 gallon filter. I imagine this should be ok? I thought that buying a bigger filter than what is necessary will cause more noise than anything. 

I read somewhere that air pumps were not totally necessary. Would I need one before I put fish into the tank? Just a little confused because I hear different things.  

But keep the advice coming. All this is helpful and I am just trying to clear a few things up so I do not have a misplaced conception.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

You should always get a filter rated for a bigger tank than you have. Mainly, this is because the filters rarely operate at the rated capacity. Secondarily, I believe manufacturers try to sell you smaller filters than needed because you will inevitably then have to replace the cartridges more frequently.

I recommend that you buy your filter based on the rated flow (gallons per hour). Divide the filter gallons per hour by the tank size and you'll get the number of turns (all water having cycled through the filter) per hour. For example, on my ten gallon tank I have a Penguin 150, 150 gph filter. That means I get 15 turns. The water is crystal clear. On my 20XH, I also have a 150 gph system, so that tank only gets 7.5 turns per hour. That is about as low as I'll go these days.

I would suggest that as a new fishkeeper you aim for at least 10 turns per hour. For your 20 gallon tank, you could use a filter like a Penguin 200 to accomplish this. Your TopFin20 will do 100 gph rated. So if you end up keeping that filter I'd suggest that you get another one and twin it up.

Bigger filters are usually not any noisier, btw.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

COM said:


> You should always get a filter rated for a bigger tank than you have. Mainly, this is because the filters rarely operate at the rated capacity. Secondarily, I believe manufacturers try to sell you smaller filters than needed because you will inevitably then have to replace the cartridges more frequently.
> 
> I recommend that you buy your filter based on the rated flow (gallons per hour). Divide the filter gallons per hour by the tank size and you'll get the number of turns (all water having cycled through the filter) per hour. For example, on my ten gallon tank I have a Penguin 150, 150 gph filter. That means I get 15 turns. The water is crystal clear. On my 20XH, I also have a 150 gph system, so that tank only gets 7.5 turns per hour. That is about as low as I'll go these days.
> 
> ...


Could I use what I have now until I get more fish and everything in the tank and then upgrade to a bigger filter? The reason I say this is because I do not have fish in the tank, but I am about 3-4 days into my cycle. Not a lot of time, but I plan to add danios soon. 

What would you recommend? Marineland biowheel or aquaclear as far as noise and cost per month to maintain?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

Yeah, you can definitely upgrade the filter further down the line. When you do that just shove your dirty filter cartridge in your new filter along with its cartridge.

I would definitely recommend a Marineland biowheel filter over the Aquaclear. I have five Marineland Bio-Wheel systems running and they are great. I also have an Aquaclear that is not great. Not sufficient at all and somewhat difficult to clean out. On the otherhand, the Aquaclear makes it much easier to put custom media into and they have way more off-the shelf choices. With the Marineland system, the cartridge is what it is. You can buy a custom kit - it's a plastic frame that fits the same cartridge slot, but you are limited in what you can do with it.

Oveall I'll take the Marineland every time.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2008)

You don't _have_ to have an air pump on your tank. It's a good thing to have none the less, but not a must have. Your filter usually moves the water enough to provide oxygen, but if you see that some areas in the water are stagnant, I would add an air pump.

I would definitely recommend getting an ammonia test kit. It's necessary to have while monitoring the cycle of your tank, and especially if you plan to add fish soon.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Everyone has their own opinion on filters. I prefer the Aquaclear line by far over the biowheels, because all my experiences with the Biowheels proved them to be noisy, and to not offer enough media choices.

The only thing I'd recommend is to definitely buy a bigger size than the box says you need. I have the Aquaclear20 on my 5.5 gallon, and it's just right, I can't imagine using it on a bigger tank.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Do your fish a favor and either don't add soon or at least wait until you are on the tail end of the cycle. I cycled with fish and it sucked! I lost all of my fish. You can cycle with fish and it has been done for years so I am not saying you cannot do that. I am saying that it is more stress than it needs to be which takes the fun out of keeping the fish for me. I cycled my other tanks with shrimp prawns like for shrimp c0cktail and it worked really well. If you want to do that let us know and we can all help you get some information on that.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

I think I have this thing finally figured out although I noticed a few observations at Petsmart today. 

1. Getting an airpump and I am set on a whisper. I figure down the road I will want to get a bigger tank (50-75 gallon) and I was wondering if I should get the Whisper airpump model for a 40 gallon tank or stick with the one for 20 gallon tanks?

Reason I ask is because the price difference is like 5 bucks, but would too much aerination be an issue? Can you adjust the pumps? 

2. When doing water changes should I treat the water? Meaning should I buy tap water condition and use it even after I get my cycle going? 

When I filled the tank intially I used 2 small packets of "Stress Zyme" (probably snake oil) and a pH balancer. 

3. I have only had water in the tank for about 2 days, but just for giggles I took a water sample test last night. 

I bought a test kit that tests for everything except for ammonia (I bought a ammonia test kit today at Petsmart) and my tests seemed a little funny.

Basically the "all in one strip" did not change color that much and I doubt I did it wrong, but my results are as follow:

0 nitrates
0 natrates
380 Kh (it was basically within spec)
0 chlorine
8.2 pH

Does this seem right? Am I testing too soon?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> Can you adjust the pumps


 Some have a adjustment knob. Otherwise get a "gang valve" and use the excess air to power an air stone or two or just let it "bleed off" into the air. 



> When doing water changes should I treat the water?


If you have city water, you should always use a dechlorinator/choramine remover.



> pH balancer


What pH is your tap water and what fish do you want? If you start using pH changing products, you will always have to add them to the new water at every water change or shock your fish with water of a different pH. Go without unless you have a real need to change the pH. 



> Am I testing too soon


Testing doesn't hurt anything. You might run out of tests or get sick of it. Its good to have a baseline pH and kH. Check them again in a week. Your goal is to have them stable and know what are when you pick your fish.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you are adding a food source (ammonia, prawn, fishfood), its time to start testing for ammonia every day. No need to test for nitrite until you see some ammonia.


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## Asully70 (Aug 22, 2008)

roaf85 said:


> Some of those awesome looking yellow and gold fish, but they aren't goldfish I just cant remember what they are called.


possibly plattys they have all sorts of colors of those. i would skip out on the angels and the tiger barbs (like everybody else ha said)and stick with community fish for a 20 gallon. you might want to add some corys they are pretty sweet and will clean and they are bottom feeders and get the remainder of the food.


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

A good rule of thumb is 1 gallon per square inch of fish. Most angelfish get a lot bigger than the size sold to you. Mine did well in a 46 bowfront although the one kept attacking my fantail goldfish her tail was ripped up constantly from that angelfish. The pearscale is definetly a beautiful breed of angel.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

An update:

I got a whisper up to 40 gallon air pump today with a 3 gang value (plastic, it was much cheaper than a metal one) and some air line tubing.

Last night I bought an ammonia test kit, a skull decoration, a gravel vac and some fish food

I can not find a freaky castle  

I am going to have a bubbly tank as the skull with have bubbles and the castle that I want to find will have some bubbles.

But yea I can not find a damn castle that looks haunted.

I think all I have left to get is tap water condition, a scary castle (cant find) and fish. 

What do you guys thinks? So far I spent about 200.


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## roaf85 (Sep 9, 2008)

Another update:

I got a annubias plant and some zebra danios. Pics are below.


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