# Please help- bad water and injured or sick fish



## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I have problem on several fronts. Yesterday I pulled out some small crown plants to give someone. I knew this would kick bad stuff into water column, so bumped up airline flow on sponge filter I keep in the corner (in case I need it suddenly for QT tank) and did 50% water change right after. Also lately I've seen a few fish look like they have scrapes on their head- I thought they were running up against filter intake, so tied piece of pantyhose over that. 

Woke up this morning, filter was stopped. First thing I removed the pantyhose- now it runs fine. One of the barbs that had what looked like a scrape, its worse now with white patch across top of head. It doesn't look fuzzy like fungus, more like peeling skin? I don't know how to treat this, beyond giving her extra clean water (daily partial wc) in QT- she's there now. 

I tested my water- it's Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80. Should I do another big water change, 50% again? I have no idea how long the filter was off overnight. Or is several smaller wc better, less stressful for the fishes?

Should I give my QT'd fish salt baths? or antibacterial treatment? I also have meds for fungus, it that's what this is. Please help! Thanks.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Crap. What am I doing wrong. I did the water change. Now the ammonia is .50, the Nitrates are better though at 20-30ppm. How come ammonia is going _up_ after the water change? I guess I'm getting a mini-cycle because I took out the smaller filter? Didn't realize it was doing that much work in the tank, not sure how to proceed now. I should keep doing water changes until its stable again I guess but how often, how much?


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

I'd keep doing 25% water changes daily of every other day till things clear up.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I would avoid doing 50% water changes unless something catastrophic happens. Stick to about 25% for situations like this, but do them more frequently. Doing a 50% water change can cause mini-cycles to happen again. 

Many fungal infections will heal with clean water.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ok. The first 50% change was because it was my normal maintenance day, the second one because I freaked out. (And I did feel like having failed filter for who-knows-how-many-hours overnight was fairly drastic). I'll do 25% from now on, until it gets better. I didn't think in the moment, a big water change could cause mini-cycle, should have realized.

Thanks.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Maybe I should put the cherry barb back in the tank? If I'm doing 25% daily changes for a while, would that probably keep the water clean enough for her to heal- and avoid the stress of being alone.


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

I had a fish once that had his tail bitten off clean down to the meat. With only water changes, it healed and the tail fin grew back in time. I heard that if a fish loses a part of a fin due to injury it will come back, but if it is lost due to infection , fin rot, etc.. it will not. I know you don't have a fin problem, but this is just to show the importance of clean water.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

yes- I have actually healed one of these barbs of tail rot before. I was giving her meds in QT, but I really felt like it was the small, twice-daily water changes that did best for her.

I'm feeling badly that this is my own fault for pulling out those plants and dirtying the water, then having filter failure exacerbate it. want to do enough water changes to get the tank out of danger, but not so drastic I throw it all out of whack.

Or maybe I already did that.
By the way, Ive had this tank running over a year. This is first real trouble since I got thru a bout of ich 6 months ago. I'm going on vacation next week, have to get this stable again before then.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Well, it's better this morning. Aquarium water the ammonia is near 0. I'm relieved- but will keep testing it every day for a while, and do 25% water changes if needed.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

I don't know what to think now. One of the fish in hospital tank with biggest belly just did clear stringy poop. This is parasites right? I have prazipro but already have aquarium salt, Melafx and primafix in. But this is first symptom I can really identify so I think I should do water change to clear out the other meds and dose prazi for the parasites? If I treat them for everything I fear I will kill them with the treatment alone

The fish look same as yesterday except they are hiding now


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

prazi-pro is pretty safe and often used with other meds in QT. Do a quick web search and read the fine print to be sure. parasites, like fin-rot are often already present but start to gain the upper hand when water gets bad. But, ime, prazi alone is not as effective as prasi + medicated food.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Now I'm unsure. I just read a bunch of info online and it seems the clear threadlike poo my fish showed can be from constipation? I am going to give peas and feed garlic, see if that helps. before I dose more meds ....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Just to confuse things more, fish can get bacterial infections in their gut, too.

If you can spare the cash, stockpile a week's worth of anti-bacterial and anti-parasite food, "just in case". They are hard to get locally and by the time you know you need one and order it online, you won't get it in time to save the fish.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

It's been harder to find medicines at the store here- all just chain ones. When I was looking for meds to get rid of ich, I had to order online.

I've been in the habit of feeding the fish food soaked in garlic about once a week (since the ich). In this case, would it help to feed them food soaked in prazipro?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I haven't tried it. I know some people do. I have sprinkled metro powder (seachem) on thawed frozen food and refroze it and then fed it. Probably worth a try if you are reasonably sure about parasites, If the fish start to get sunken bellies or have poo the move when you touch it, for example.

I was considering ordering from http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm as it looks like less work for me.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Not sure. I had a platy once that got very thin with stringy poo- treated the tank with prazipro that time. These fish are fatter than norm, so that's why I think it might be constipation?


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## Elliott225 (Jan 9, 2014)

Something you may want to add to the water if you don't currently do it....salt. Add 1 teaspoon per gallon. It's just enough to act as a tonic for the fish and it will help with healing. Also, it will sometimes screw up the little parasites some.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ok. I did mix in 1 TB already. Should put in another tsp & a half?


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

They pooped normal stuff, after eating the peas. So I think not parasites. Am still treating with aquarium salt, melafix and primafix. The two that had mild-looking pale patches on their heads, its disappearing. The other one no change... she's hiding the most, too.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

you are lucky that it wasn't columnaris!


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Actually, I am still not sure about that. Although from what I understand, columnaris acts quickly and the fish would be dead by now? 

I have just ruled out internal parasites, guessing they're fat from being constipated. I still don't know what the marks on the head are- maybe they scraped against something, or nipped each other.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

depends on the specific type of columnaris. 
One of my fish lasted for 2 days from the time I noticed it to the time it died. The 2nd one lasted a week and a half. I think it got into the gills with the 2nd fish. Both started out looking like scrapes but when I held the fish in a jar up to the daylight you could see that there was no fungus-- just missing skin and eaten down into the flesh.
Annoying since I had the fish about 4 months before the problem came out. 
Danios are always squabbling though so I guess it weakens the immune system.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

2 more fish in main tank have it now. Peeling scales, white marks on upper part of body I have ordered kanaplex and furan-2, am getting tetracycline and what else I can find from pet shop today

silly question maybe but does columnaris have any ill effect on terrestrial plants? I have been giving my houseplants old tank water for a long time...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

no idea. I kind of doubt a fish disease would hurt them, but I wouldn't put those plants back in a fish tank.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

They never would anyways. Not aquatic. Potted houseplants.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Do read up on columnaris. It takes 2 types of antibiotic to cure it if in fact it is possible to cure. Kanaplex is one of them I do know for sure.

If you have live plants in the tank take them out as some meds kill plants.
Also you are likely to lose your biological filter during the treatment so there is another concern.

Remove any charcoal in your tank. 
Reduce temperature to below 80. 

Columnaris is present in clean well oxygenated tanks so if you are reading articles about the disease and it says it occurs in dirty tanks that is not current info.
I doubt if you would find a very much cleaner tank than I keep. -- well maybe my dutch friend's! she scrubs the artificial plants weekly and has no algae at all. I wonder how her plecs stay alive.( they are skinny).
I have given up using antibiotics on fish as I have spent many dollars on common relatively cheap fish over the years to little results other than treating ich and an occasional bacterial infection on plecos. They actually have very strong immune systems to start with, so you have a head start with them. A lot of the pet store fish are bred fast for the market and seem to be quite weak overall.
Good luck with you escapades. I would just treat the whole tank at this stage. You could also get a UV sterilizer to try.

I use fish tank water on all my houseplants too and make sure I wash well with soap and water after watering.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes. Ok. It's a worse situation now because I have to leave tomorrow, gone 7 days. So whatever I treat w/meds, can't finish the dosing, can't do water changes if my bio-filter gets killed by antibiotics... 

I am pretty much accepting now that I will come home to some dead fish and have to start over. I've ordered meds, plan to put the plants in an aerated bucket, treat the tank, dip the plants in 1/10 bleach solution, and start over when I get back. Might have to replace substrate, strip and sterilize the tank too I guess if columnaris is as bad as I've been reading reports on... I'm feeling awful about this now.

I have the tank temp down to 76° in main, 74° in hospital. Aim to get it a few degrees lower over the next 12 hrs.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

If your filter was not running for awhile, then you would have expected an ammonia spike as the nitrate and nitrite got turned back into ammonia via "Reduction."

As for the Cherry Barbs, I wouldn't panic just yet. A little MelaFix and PimaFix will probably be enough to clear this up ok.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Fingers crossed!


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes, I've been treating the cherry barbs with aquarium salt, melafix and primafix so far. And extra water changes. I'm guessing now that I've had this pathogen in my tank a long time (first fish I had came from the pet store) and they fell susceptible when weakened by the filter failure... I've got the tank stable again- no more ammonia spikes. Now just have to see how the fish do.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Well I lost two cherry barbs. Three others have the pale marks on their heads- they don't look any better or worse in a weeks' time. They are still alert, and eating/pooping fine. I'm treating with kanaplex and furan-2 now.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Hmm... well, keep doing that, and take care of any fungus issues. That's what usually actually kills the fish.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Does fungus always have a fuzzy appearance? When I look as closely as I can, I don't see any raised fuzzy or fibrous stuff. Just scraped-looking, gray as if the scales are missing...


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

No, fungus doesn't always look fuzzy. In fact, the worst sorts of it are the ones which penetrate the flesh where you can't see it at all, and the kind that rots the gills.
Don't panic over it, though; just keep treating with the current meds. You might want to add some salt or some Pima-fix if you think fungus might be a problem.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ok. I'm still doing salt- 1/2 tsp per gallon.


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