# Are my fish fighting URGENT reply please I'm concerned



## jackass63

I'm really new to fish keeping but thought I was doing a good job up until a few moments ago. 

I have three small fantail fish (one is a blackmoore) in a 13 US gallon tank or a 10 gallon UK tank. 

Like most first time fish keepers I didn't do my research first thinking that goldfish were easy to care for. I started out with a bowl and some flakes on reccomendation of the pet shop keeper.

Luckily I soon found out this was wrong and got this much bigger tank which I thought would be fine for a good while.

I will explain some things now that might help to determine my problem:

I have a gold fantail, a red and white fantail and a blackmoore.

They are all relatively young and quite small though they have got bigger already (I've only had the tank a month or so.)

I recently got my water tested at the aquarium and they said my tank was near perfect and I believe them as they didn't try to sell me anything. No ammonia or anything.

I got the first fish (the gold fantail) bought for me as a joke birthday present that has ended up costing me a ridiculous amount.

So I don't know if fish are territorial but he owned the tank first. A few days later I added the two other fish at the same time.

The blackmoore is the biggest and the red and white fish is the smallest with the first fish being somewhere in the middle. 

There aren't many personality distinctions between the fish except the smallest is the most shy, wary but also the biggest scavenger. I'm pretty sure it is a girl fish as it only has one anal fin. She is the only one that goes inside my decorative Egyptian pot and into the castle. She loves her hiding spots.

All the fish were getting along great everytime I look at them. They are usually doing there own thing but occassionaly they will swim calmly next to eachother and never bother one another. 

NOW FOR THE PROBLEM:

Today I was watching my fish and for the first time I saw aggression and I am now very worried. My gold fish, keeps chasing after the red and white one in a frenzy. She is scared and swims away as fast as possible. Luckily she is faster than him and gets away but he will try again every minute or so and she must be living in terror.

Also, I don't think it's a mating thing as they are all still young and both the black one and the gold one are male, and this is the second part of the problem. The gold fish chases the blackmoore as well but with the black fish being bigger he doesn't swim away and it looks like they fight eachother. Despite being smaller the gold one is the one that starts the fights all the time and the blackmoore does try and get away but not in a panic like the little one, he stands his ground.

So I'm really concerned about the welfare of my fish. I believe I may need a bigger tank but I thought I had until the water started going cloudy or the fish were noticeably huge. 

I will include some pictures so you can get an idea of how big the tank is in relation to the fish (it looks fine to me). 

Some other useful information to diagnose the problem and hopefully a solution:

They are fed plenty but also a variety. I have flakes, pellets and bloodworms. They shouldn't be fighting for food.

The gold one is the first owner of the tank and without me knowing he might be the dominant fish in there though he has never had to show it before.

I do have a small bowl which is nowhere near ideal. It doesn't have an airpump or a filter but temporarily I could take the gold one out and put it in that. Maybe after a day if I put it back in the big tank it would be more pacified and maybe realise it is not the dominant one or maybe even think it is in a new home and the other two fish have been there longer.

I WILL NOT DO THAT LAST PARAGRAPH UNTIL ONE OF YOU FISH EXPERTS RECCOMENDS IT INCASE IT DOES DAMAGE TO THE FISH.

I'm really sorry for such a long post but I'm concerned, need it sorted ASAP incase my fish are in danger and I wanted to be as helpful as possible but maybe I've rambled too much.

I will leave you with a couple of pictures so you can get an idea of the size of the tank and what the fish look like:


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## FishMatt

*Reply*

Okay I my be a fine one to speak but those goldfish need more space a single goldfish needs about 23 gallons to itself that is probably your problem.


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## jackass63

I was under the impression that whilst young and small they need less space and then when they are older I can get a bigger tank. Is this not correct? The guy in the aquarium said I had around 18 months.

You see, this would be ideal as I can save a few pounds per week for a year and be able to get the biggest tank that will fit in my room.

The trouble is I am in a very low paid job and the tank I would need is around £110. I can not afford to buy that now or for a good while. Maybe I could if I did my research first and didn't just spend £80 on the tank I currently have - I KNOW HOW STUPID I AM AND AM BEATING MYSELF UP ABOUT IT NOW! 

But unfortunately as I've just invested a lot in this tank its gonna be at least 6 months to a year until I can get an upgrade.

Is there anything I can do in the meantime?


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## FishMatt

Well just in case I'm wrong wait for another opinon, But I'm not sure their is much you can do.


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## jackass63

Whilst I wait for another opinion maybe you could relieve a little bit of stress for me. I just want to know what the most is gonna happen.

Will it be they will be chasing eachother a little violently for a while or could I wake up one day and the gold fish has taken off fins of the little ones or killed the blackmoore somehow? I don't know how aggressive fantail fish can be and want to know that the lives of them aren't in immediate danger.


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## FishMatt

Goldfish aren't big fin nipers they shou'nt bite the fins


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## snyderguy

They should be fine in that size of a tank while they're small but you will have to get a bigger tank as they grow. As for the fighting, try re-organizing all the decorations and plants. It'll come off as a whole new environment to them so they'd have to mark territories again. If that doesn't work, then I wouldn't be too worried unless the one being picked on is showing nip marks or anything else.


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## pinetree

Well you already know that you are overstocked. With three fancy goldfish, you would need at minimum a 40 gallon breeder sized tank (not sure what the UK equivalent would be though). A 55 gallon would be better.

For now, I would watch them and try the suggestion of rearranging and see if that helps a bit. While goldfish are typically not aggressive fish, some of them can be. Although I have never experienced this, I have spoken to other fancy goldfish keepers that report that ryukins and fantails tend to be the most aggressive. Males will chase and harass females if they are trying to spawn, but your fish seem quite young and small for that.

You can try a tank divider and separate the gold one from the other two. If that is too expensive for you, you could do a little searching around and get some DIY instructions how to make a cheap divider.

Finally, since money is an issue for you right now, my best advice is to rehome two of the three fish. You can see if you can return them to wherever you purchased them from, even if they won't refund you the money. Just explain that you are overstocked and have an aggression problem and see if they'll take the fish. Or maybe you can find a friend to take them. It's easier to give them away now and save money for a bigger tank. Then when the time comes, you'll have more experience and can purchase some new fish when you can also afford the appropriate sized tank.


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## mousey

I think your fish are too young to sex and the number of anal fins on a goldfish is not an indication of gender as far as I am aware. males will get breeding tubercles as they reach sexual maturity and only in breeding season.
Goldfish will show aggression. I adopted an older fish and tried to give him a tank mate. he beat it up so badly that it died of severe bruising overnight.You could see the hemmorhage under the skin. The next time I tried I divided the tank with a mesh screen for about three weeks until he knocked it down. Fortunately he decided to like the new fish and they slept together. Ben- the new fish was considerably smaller than Sushi and ben slept between Sushi's front fins until he got too big.
One day I found ben dead after 2 years. not a mark on him , he hadn't been sick and I could not see any stones stuck in his throat so I don't know what happened.
Sushi's previous owner said she had tried a second fish before I got him and he had killed them all.
This poor fish I adopted was raised in a 5 gallon tank. I got him a 15 gallon right away and his finnage grew to a good length but his body was permanently stunted. he lived with me another 5 years and died at approximately 14 years old-- not old for a goldfish!


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## jackass63

What is odd is that the fish have never been like this before and seem very content and comfortable with each other for the last few weeks or more. They seem very friendly which is nice and I'd hate to think one might die from severe bruising one day.

Also, for the last several hours now I have been paying close attention and it has never happened again. So either every other time this has happened I haven't been home to see it (quite unlikely). Or it was literally today for about 15 minutes and has never happened again.

Could I be misinterpreting it? Does chasing and banging into each other mean they are playing around as there is no bruising or fin destruction? Or perhaps the gold one was being aggressive but just had a bad few minutes personality wise? I can't see it happening again and the little red and white one is swimming right underneath the gold one and next to him and he's giving no reaction.


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## Guest

wow, this the first time i see goldfish going after gold fish.


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## Peeps

Goldfish can be aggressive. I know it's hard to believe but yes, they can be pretty aggressive, some. A game they play is follow the leader, they will pile behind each other and nuzzle up to each others tails but it sounds like yours was aggression. Like everyone said they need a bigger tank and may be getting on each others nerves. But Im glad things have calmed down but keep an eye on them. They are cute. Your telescope is going to be massive. He's the one that's going to really need a bigger tank.


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## Plakat_bettas

Gold fish are social fish they like to have company FOR THE MOST part not every goldfish is social but as a species they are. For now your tank is a good size but you will need to upgrade... the bigger the better. 

I would take all the decorations out and rearrange them.... see if that works if not re home the aggressive one unless you are attached to him lol.


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