# Fish ideas



## lanturn (Aug 13, 2011)

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and looking to get my first tank soon, the one I like is 38gUS.

I have read a lot about setting up an aquarium and plan to run a fishless cycle.

Ultimately I plan to stock with a shoal of Golden Dwarf Barbs (5) and would welcome ideas on what would be suitable companions for them?

Thanks


Mark


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Most tetras would do well.


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## lanturn (Aug 13, 2011)

Black Phantom Tetras ??


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't know about those, but most tetras have similar water requirements with barbs. You could get cardinal tetras or neons... What would be stunning would be to get 5 barbs, 5 neons, and 5 cardinals with a center piece of some sort of ram. Caution, rams are tricky to take care of. This may sound stupid, but I've found it to be very true. It sounds like you are a beginner so if you are, then this may work. I believe that they may survive because you know nothing. When I know nothing about a fish, it lives a long happy life. I like that fish, research it and put it in recommended conditions and it dies. I used to clean out a half gallon betta bowl every 1-2 months. It lived three years. I now clean out the bowls every week and they die just outside their warranty.


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## chronoboy (Jan 17, 2011)

its the same with rams, I dont over do it with my rams i take care of them just like any of my other fish, and what i have found is they are hardy fish, but yet you read on this site of how hard rams are to take care of, but yet my rams have survived alot like amonia spikes, major water temp changes, one time had a air line come loose on there tank and it drained almost the hole tank "i now know to use one way valves on all air lines", ive learned somtimes over taking care of your fish is as bad as not taking good anough care of them.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Chrono boy is the RAM king while the rest of us are the ram slayers. Any post with rams mentioned is an opportunity for him to rub it in our faces Grrr ram posts


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

check the needs of the barbs before you go adding tetras...many species of barbs prefer cooler water than tetras...but there are several species of barbs that can go together..


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## lanturn (Aug 13, 2011)

Phew there's a lot to take in and think about

I'm leaning towards

5 golden barbs
5 lemon tetra's
5 black neon tetra's


would I ultimately be able to add anymore fish? (not that I would immediately)


Mark


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

A group of Corydoras catfish would go well with your proposed stocklist.


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## lanturn (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi again,

I eventually got a juwel vision 180.

So far I have purchased

6 Cherry Barbs
5 Golden Barbs
6 Black Neon's

Next on my list to add are:

2 Panchax's
2 male guppies
2 Dwarf Gouramies
5/5 Cories


Will my stocking level be ok?


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I would say so.


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## funlad3 (Oct 9, 2010)

The Barbs are subject to nip at the guppies. They see their colorful tails, and they go for them. If you have enough barbs, which you very well may, they'll ignore the guppies. If they don't ignore them, just add a few more rams, or remove the guppies.

The same thing goes for the dwarf gouramis. The barbs will go for the long pelvic fins (I thin that's what they are) unless they are too preoccupied squabbling against themselves. 

I'd love to see some pictures of your tank; I've seen the Juwels in PFK, but have never seen one in person.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

panchax killies? Not my first choice. F. Gardneri are better community fish. 48 gallons is enough room for them, but I'd still expect one to kill the other before jumping out. Thats what my "golden wonders" did.


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

I'd really recommend dropping the panchax and guppies in favor of more golden and cherry barbs and black neons. With any schooling fish larger groups are better than smaller groups of more species.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Lanturn, you need to slow down and research these fish. The fish you have purchased and the fish you have listed are not ideally suited for each other. Also, you need an understanding of what water comes out of your tap. For a beginner, it is far easier to match the fish to the water than to match the water to the fish. Otherwise, you simply put the fish into conditions that are less than optimal which compromises their immune system, or in some extreme cases outright lethal.

Neons: Require soft/slightly acidic water. Too often these fish die after a month or two because they don't handle hard water well. These fish are supposed to get to 2" long but I have never seen one over 1" long, probably because I have never seen an adult.

The barbs are fine, they are pretty adaptable.

Let's look at your wish list now:

2 Panchax's

Several fish are called panchax. These are killifish, some like Aphyosemion genus prefer soft, acidic water. Others like Pachypanchax genus prefer hard and alkaline water. It is extremely rare to find these at a retailer anyway, they are usually found by going directly to a breeder. The Aphyosemion are good community fish, the Pachypanchax will throw their weight around and harass smaller fish. They might even eat the neons.

2 male guppies

Male is a good call here. Problem is that these fish are definitely hard and alkaline fish that even benefit from some salt in the water. Not a good match. 

2 Dwarf Gouramies - Should be fine regardless of other stock.

5/5 Cories - requires slightly soft and acidic water.

Also note that several of your fish require a lot of plant matter in their diet, and others require a lot of protein. 

Together, what this means is that while you might be able to successfully keep all these fish in the same tank, you will have to make compromises. If you have hard water, the soft water fish will be at greater risk of illness. If you have soft water, the hard water fish will be at greater risk of illness. You will have to feed a mixture of plant and vegetable matter, which is present in most general fish foods, you cannot target feeding to the kind of fish in the tank.

Point here is to make sure you educate yourself and don't make impulse livestock buys.


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## lanturn (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks punk


My water readings are:

water level PH	7.5
carbonate hardness KH	240
general hardness CH	180


would you know how that converts ?

In my research I couldonly find it expressed as 4-18N (foe example)

Thanks


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

That water is fairly hard and alkaline. It's not as hard as the liquid rock that comes out of my tap, but it certainly looks like you would be better off targeting hardwater fishes.

Livebearers: Platty, Molly, guppy, swordtails, endlers. If you go this route, you need to understand their reproduction and how they keep on giving. And giving. And giving. With a good setup, you will have fry and you will not have to buy replacements. You will be trying to give them away or feeding the fry to other fish. 

With water as hard as yours, you can get away with keeping mollies in pure fresh water. That avoids the mess of salt creep. 

Rift lake cichlids, from Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi. There are a lot of these, and they are quite popular. Watch the sizes, though, some can get quite big and they don't always play nice.

As a beginner, I suggest cutting your teeth on the livebearers. With your water conditions they should do very well as long as you keep up with your routine maintenance. And they are some fun species, not as smart as cichlids but eventually they definitely will eat from your hand without taking a piece of it.

As for your neons, you could take them back to the store or hang on to them and see how long you can keep them alive. Maybe you'll do okay, but in my experience 2 or 3 months in hard water.

Let us know how it goes.


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Ooh, one other thing. If you go with livebearers avoid buying them at a big box store. Even if you buy at a fish specialist, you should for sure quarantine and do a prophylactic treatment for internal parasites. These fish are often distributed sick, especially from the big box stores. Quarantine mollies for minimum 6 weeks. That is the gestation period for camallanus nemotodes, and if those get into your main system, it's a nightmare.


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## lanturn (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi Punk,

Can I just check that given my water conditions, keeping Barbs are ok?


Thanks


Mark


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Depends on the barbs in question. Rosy barbs should be fine.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Okay I have hard water. I have high Ph- like 8.0 out of the tap. I have kept cherry barbs and black neons together for years under these conditions with all surviving. I have never seen a black neon over 1.5 inches, and that guy was freakishly huge. I kept Rosy barbs, with the cherrys and neons as well as zebra and giant danios etc... all happy together under those conditions. Those fish are really pretty hardy and they adapt fairly well to your water conditions. You are not keeping a river or a lake in your house so there is only so much you will be able to do in order to meet all of their optimal needs. Optimally I would love to live in a mansion and have people wait on me with limo's. Instead I live in a 550 sq apartment with an F-150. I do just fine  However if anyone wants to give me those things because you feel bad that I don't live in optimal conditions.. I won't say no. 

In all seriousness what it comes down to is keeping your tank well and not getting a fish that have extreme differences. No 8.0 fish in 6.0 water. But you can keep either an 8.0 or a 6.0 in 7.0 meaning they can live together. MOST fish will adapt. Now there are going to be some exceptions and that is where experience and research come in handy. For example you don't mess too much with Discus water. Yeah, that's gotta be pretty steady. Thus the rating of moderate to difficult in terms of keeping them. You would be amazed at what would work together. If you are introducing fish from the store in one Ph to a different Ph in your tank use a drip. I can tell you from experience- you can keep a neon that has been kept in tap water alive in a tap water tank. However you cannot keep a neon that has been raised and kept in RO water in a tap water tank. Yeah those died inside 3 hours with a slow slow slow drip out of my tank that is now at 7.2ph. I wouldn't recommend it. 

Exceptions: You do not really want to keep a bunch of really slow long finned fish together with really fast nipping fish. It can work, but you would need to really watch things. You don't want to put guppies in with oscars. Seems obvious but people try it. No huge fish with little fish, little fish make great meals for huge fish. No aggressive fish with slow peaceful meandering fish. They make great meals as well. 

I could go on but for your purposes here I will not. 

In terms of what I would add to the tank- that would be Cories. There are several species that would be awesome in that tank. Some commonly found cories are: Peppered Cory, Albino Cory, Julie Cory, Three lined (watch out if you don't know what you are looking at you can get a 3 lined when you want a julie- the difference that matters in a tank is that 3 lined get bigger than julies, but still not enough to really worry about), panda cories, and green or bronze. Be very careful with those last 2. If you get "Brochi" then you will have a big fish as they get considerably larger than an actual Cory. Personally I feel that all tanks should have cories, they rock. You would want about 5-7 in a tank that size. You can also look into planet catfish to get a list of the cories you can have if you can find them. It's pretty extensive. Look up the "C" numbers (as opposed "L" numbers which are plecostamus). 

http://www.planetcatfish.com/

Good luck!


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## Fishpunk (Apr 18, 2011)

Yeah, all those fish you mentioned are farm-bred as far as I know, so they will tolerate harder water than the wild-caught ones will. Some species can't tolerate the wrong water conditions (discus or German blue rams struggle in hard alkaline water, mollies struggle in soft acidic water) but much of what is sold in major stores are pretty tolerant of pH and hardness as long as extremes are avoided.


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