# Feeding Apisto Fry?



## llamas

So my female layed eggs! (yay) I dont know if they are fertilized, but if they do hatch, I need to know what to feed the fry. The eggs are TINY! What do I need to buy and/or make?


----------



## br00tal_dude

we use regualr tropical flake and put it in a ziplock baggy and just grind it up really fine, maybe mix in some spirulina so they can get thier veggies too!


----------



## Guest

talk to loha. he has this fry food called Megafry.


----------



## ron v

My experience is that apistos don't like flake food much. Even adults will usually only pick at it. Best bet would be microworms and after 3-4 days baby brine shrimp. If you can't do the live stuff, frozen baby brine shrimp may work (never tried it myself tho). ...What kind of apistos???


----------



## llamas

Apistogramma Borelli.

Where would I get microworms and/or brine shrimp? Since apistos don't typically like flake food, what should I feed the adults?


----------



## ron v

I see you are in Woodstock Ga. Are you familiar with the Atlanta Area Aquarium Association? We have a meeting scheduled at Emory University on April 11th. If you can come to that meeting I will give you a starter culture of microworms and explain how to do it. While it won't help the fry you have now, your apistos will probably spawn again in 3-4 weeks. You can be ready next time.


----------



## emc7

There are lots of really fine powders for fry 'golden pearls', Azoo artificial rotifiers, etc. But live is best and frozen is second best. Hikari has cubes (in order of size) of rotifer, daphnia, and baby brine shrimp. 

Adults eat flake, but they love live Blackworms (get them from the meeting), and frozen bloodworms, 

Did you see Pete's video? http://www.atlantaaquarium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2063 The pair he got at the auction have spawned already. 

I like microworms also, you can get a culture from someone near you or mail order one, try posting on the AAAA board, or you can start a brine shrimp hatchery. You can raise apistos without live food, but they will do better with it.


----------



## llamas

ron v said:


> I see you are in Woodstock Ga. Are you familiar with the Atlanta Area Aquarium Association? We have a meeting scheduled at Emory University on April 11th. If you can come to that meeting I will give you a starter culture of microworms and explain how to do it. While it won't help the fry you have now, your apistos will probably spawn again in 3-4 weeks. You can be ready next time.


Yes, I actually got them from the auction! Thank you very much for the offer, and I beleive I will be able to go to the April meeting (must confirm with parents ASAP). 



emc7 said:


> There are lots of really fine powders for fry 'golden pearls', Azoo artificial rotifiers, etc. But live is best and frozen is second best. Hikari has cubes (in order of size) of rotifer, daphnia, and baby brine shrimp.
> 
> Adults eat flake, but they love live Blackworms (get them from the meeting), and frozen bloodworms,
> 
> Did you see Pete's video? http://www.atlantaaquarium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2063 The pair he got at the auction have spawned already.
> 
> I like microworms also, you can get a culture from someone near you or mail order one, try posting on the AAAA board, or you can start a brine shrimp hatchery. You can raise apistos without live food, but they will do better with it.


Right now, the eggs have little wiggling tails poking out of them, and the female moved them from under the driftood to above it. How long, approximately, will the fry continue to live off of the yolk sacs? When should I start feeding them, and should I have variety (ei: brine shrimp along with microworms)?
Lastly, when feeding the frozen food (if I cannot find live food), should I try to crush the cubes into tiny pieces? 

Thanks for all the help


----------



## llamas

Almost forgot....I have an HOB filter, but it is on the other side of the tank (the eggs are far to one side). I do, however, have a canister filter on the side with the eggs. Should I cover the intake tube with a material like pantyhose, or replace it with a sponge?

Thanks agaiN!


----------



## emc7

sponge is best, for intake covering. You can buy a sponge pre-filter or slit a piece of "aquarium filter sponge" and slide it over the strainer. Pantyhose eventually mess up the flow. Not an immediate concern, since good cichlid parents will keep fry away from danger. 

You don't feed until you see a cloud of free-swimming fry. Don't feed when they are still rocking on the yolk sacs. BBS are cool, because if they are eating it, the fry get nice pink bellies. For the little frozen food, you can cut the cubes with a knife and melt them in dechlored water and feed with a syringe/eye-dropper. 

You can get live blackworms from Roger at the meeting (assuming your parents will let you keep them in the fridge) or freeze-dried blackworms from Larry (bugman).


----------



## llamas

emc7 said:


> sponge is best, for intake covering. You can buy a sponge pre-filter or slit a piece of "aquarium filter sponge" and slide it over the strainer. Pantyhose eventually mess up the flow. Not an immediate concern, since good cichlid parents will keep fry away from danger.
> 
> You don't feed until you see a cloud of free-swimming fry. Don't feed when they are still rocking on the yolk sacs. BBS are cool, because if they are eating it, the fry get nice pink bellies. For the little frozen food, you can cut the cubes with a knife and melt them in dechlored water and feed with a syringe/eye-dropper.
> 
> You can get live blackworms from Roger at the meeting (assuming your parents will let you keep them in the fridge) or freeze-dried blackworms from Larry (bugman).


Thank you so much for all the help! I will try to find some frozen foods for when they are free swimming (don't know any places that sell live fry food) and will definately try to make it to the next meeting! 

Right now, I am a little busy, but I will try to post pictures if I get some!


----------



## ron v

Do you have any plants in the aquarium? Java moss or anything like that? Lots of tiny bugs (infusoria) live on plants. If your filter is well established lots of infusoria live in it too. Get some of the mulm and gently squirt it into the cloud of babies. I use a turkey baster. Your mom has one.... Don't tell her what you are using it for. LOL. As EMC said... wait until they are free swimming.


----------



## ron v

llamas, I just started you a small culture of microworms in my fishroom. It should be going strong by April 11th. BTW, I bid on an adult pair of borelli at the auction. Sooooo you are the person who beat me out. LOL. Small world world isn't it. I'm glad they are working out so well for you!


----------



## emc7

Agreed, java moss is great. Remember next meeting is Apr. 11 (not the usual first Thursday). lol Ronv beat me to the post.


----------



## llamas

It's a small world indeed! 

The tank is moderately planted. the female acutally moved the eggs right to the stem of a fairly large anubias....

I do not however have any mosses or large clumps of plants. I plan on getting some moss in the future though, both for future fry and for its looks. 

I will try the mulm. As for the filter, they should be well established (running for 2 years now).


----------



## llamas

Ronv, that you so much for the microworms! I will look forward to meeting you, and you too EMC, if you are there.


----------



## ron v

Remind me a couple of days before the meeting. I'll forget... LOL.


----------



## llamas

Well, I have some bad news :-(

This morning, the fry are nowhere to be found. The female is back to her pale self and just roaming the tank as if they never exsisted...

I suspect the Kuhlis bassed on the fact that
A) The eggs were laid on the driftwood that live live right under
B) I saw one of the Kuhlis stalking the fry (still not swimming) and watching intently
C) The Kuhlis are nocturnal and it happened over night.

So, on the plus side, I will be all prepared when the next spawn occurs!

I have a pot in the tank, but its quite large. should I half bury it in the substrate? That way, they may choose to spawn there...


----------



## ron v

You need one more aquarium for the apisto pair. Sorry, but it won't stop there. LOL. Multiple tank syndrome is a disease that lots of folks in this hobby have.


----------



## lohachata

i feed mine Max Prime micro...they love it.even my CPD fry love it.but i have decided not to sell it as it's cost is extreme..$160.00 per pound..
i also use Mega-Fry..another expensive food ; but worth every penny.
but you can grind up flakes and stuff..you might be able to get them to take it.


----------



## llamas

ron v said:


> You need one more aquarium for the apisto pair. Sorry, but it won't stop there. LOL. Multiple tank syndrome is a disease that lots of folks in this hobby have.


Ooops....That may be a problem, considering the fact that my only other tank is a 10 gallon....


----------



## llamas

lohachata said:


> i feed mine Max Prime micro...they love it.even my CPD fry love it.but i have decided not to sell it as it's cost is extreme..$160.00 per pound..


WOAH! What's in that food?


----------



## llamas

Well, I have another spawn. I'm kind of confused, considering the fact that its only been 9 days!

Well, the eggs are right near the kuhli loach's home...again! I have my ten gallon cycled (was going to be a hospital tank) So, should I move the eggs and parents, just the eggs, the eggs and mom....or am I better off leaving them alone?


----------



## emc7

Either just the eggs, or move the kuhlis. I suspect if you move mom and the eggs, she will eat them. However, if you move both parents and the eggs, i bet they eat them, but spawn again within a week. So you if you want to breed them in the small tank, do that. If you want to be mom and pick fungused eggs off with a tweezers, move just the eggs.


----------



## llamas

emc7 said:


> Either just the eggs, *or move the kuhlis*. I suspect if you move mom and the eggs, she will eat them. However, if you move both parents and the eggs, i bet they eat them, but spawn again within a week. So you if you want to breed them in the small tank, do that. If you want to be mom and pick fungused eggs off with a tweezers, move just the eggs.


I never actually thought of moving the kuhlis  I always make things so much more difficult than they really have to be...

Unless the apistos can breed in a ten gallon tank, I should probably just move the kuhlis. However, in their own tank, there is definitely no danger to the fry...

Considering that I only have a ten gallon tank, what would you recommend?


----------



## emc7

The other fish will still be a threat to fry, but an easier to defend against one. Apistos will breed in a 10. You have to keep super good care of the water and watch closely for signs of marital tension. A cichlid divorce in too small a tank can be fatal. 
Raising the fry yourself is a PITA, you have to pick fungused eggs, feed several times a day and clean up after them. But I did it with rams, so you can do it apistos. 

Not sure what to tell you, there are pros and cons of any choice here. Time to buy a 20L?


----------



## llamas

Thank you so much for the help. I think I will remove the kuhlis for the time being. 

Time to get check out Craigslist!


----------

