# Bleekeri,polleni?? Oh my head....



## Linilou

So ive been looking to get a ''starry night cichlid'' for my new tank, (next year) and now that im doing research I think im about to give up im so confused.

The first time I saw one, was here, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/cichlid_of_month/Paratilapia_bleekeri.html

The pictures they have are absolutely GORGEOUS, and i then decided that this, is the fish i shall be getting,

then with a little more research ive found the Polleni type,
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Paratilapia&species=polleni&id=565#top

here it states that there is no such thing as a bleekeri, and that this fish should be and is just the large and small spot polleni.

heres a website on the other hand stating they they are indeed two diffrent types of fish,

http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=117

and now i dont know what to belive?!

The only thing that im sure of is that I want a 'bleekeri' and not a 'polleni', i just like the way they look better,

so if they are indeed the same fish, how do i go about buying one? 

If I go to my LFS and ask for one/order one, how am i to be sure they have the right one?



allthough, ive found this, 
http://www.cichlidstation.com/servlet/the-107/Tropical-freshwater-fish-Paratilapia/Detail
a website that sells these so called starry night cichlids, the only thing is that its labeled as a polleni, but looks much more like a bleekeri, 

just more to add to the confusion :/


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## Blue Cray

The last one is a type of cichlid from madagascar, grows big and gets agressive.


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## lohachata

thet are beautiful fish ; to be sure..but in 35 years in this hobby;i have yet to see one...
i wounder if i will see any next week at the OCA....


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## Linilou

I realize that they get quite large, and im willing to move it if it turns out to be to much for my other tankmates,

Ive read that there becoming more and more popular, so when i set the tank up, ill hopefully be able to find one


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## emc7

In most of these naming controversies, your best bet is to pick an "expert" and cite him/her. As is "Paul Loiselle says and Ted Judy agrees that all those Hemichromis Lifililli in the hobby in the US are actual Hemichromis guttatus". It helps if the expert has actually seen the fish in question. Cichlids are so specialized there will only be a handful of people who write about any given fish. So going by the latest published opinion and citing a source is reasonably safe. You may be wrong, but you will be in good company.

Get pictures of fish you are thinking about ordering. Sounds some sites are dodging the question and selling Paratilapia "small spot" and Paratilapia sp. "Marolambo" (collection location). Not sure whether Bleekeri is large spot or small spot or neither, I've seen the names both ways. 

As for acquiring, there are online fish sellers like http://www.davesfish.com/ , sellers on Aquabid.com, http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidso&1258779174 or try to find a local breeder through a local club. The local stores can order you fish on the wholesalers list, but ask the LFS what they will do if the wrong fish comes in.


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## Linilou

Thank you so much! This really clear a bit of things up, im going to go to my lfs today and see what they would do in the case of a mixup, but I might jutst end up ordering it off line if they cant get it


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## Guest

*fish*

*the starry nite and blekreii are two different fish, of the same species, the starry nite is also known as the small spot. Both are talapia*


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## Linilou

Hmm.

So is this to be considered a large spot?










also. are these able to be kept alone? or do they have to be paired?


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## redpaulhus

lohachata said:


> thet are beautiful fish ; to be sure..but in 35 years in this hobby;i have yet to see one...
> i wounder if i will see any next week at the OCA....


I'm pretty sure it was one of these that won Best in Show at the NEC convention last year in CT. I'll see if I can find a photo.
Owned by a really nice lady from Mass, who bought the fish at Uncle Ned's Fish Factory in Millis MA (I think Ned special ordered the fish for her).

I was lucky enough to have sat at the same table with the lady in question at the banquet the night before the voting was tabulated/announced, if I recall correctly her fish was kept solo, no tankmates at all.


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## Linilou

Well thats good, I dont need breeding pair aggression on my hands! lol,

im sure it was quite a fish to see!


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## lohachata

i just recently heard that all cichlid species from madagascar are extinct in the wild..so whatever you may see in local shops will be captive bred.


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## Linilou

Is that a bad thing?


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## emc7

No, its not bad to get captive bred fish. Captive bred fish usually eat flakes right away and are (hopefully) free of parasites. and Yes, its bad that neat fish are extinct in the wild.


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## Linilou

Well of course its bad that there extinct  really sad accually.

Its good that they have them captive bred though, to preserve the species, at least in captivity.

This almost makes me want one more, its horrible that there extinct, but ill allmost feel like im helping the species some how,


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## emc7

Look into "species maintenance" programs. Groups like the American Livebearer Association keep lists of who has what endangered fish where. You pledge to keep the fish for a period of time, try to breed it and share the fry and if you give them up, give them to someone in the program and in exchange get cheap or free fish that you don't see in stores. Habitat destruction, pollution, introduction of 'commercial' fish and hybridization due to connection of previously independent bodies of water are threatening fish all over the world. This hobby has a habit of importing a fish for a few years, and people breed it all over the world, then dump the fish for the next new import. But now, when you go back to the wild to get the fish again, its gone. We have to get serious about keeping viable (not too inbred) captive populations of the fish we'd like our children to see. There are enough tanks to save lots of fish, if we each pick a few fish we love and keep them as long as we are in the hobby and pass them on to people who will keep them after us.


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## Linilou

Im really going to look this up, thanks so much it sounds like a great program and something id deffinatley be intrested in!


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## redpaulhus

redpaulhus said:


> I'm pretty sure it was one of these that won Best in Show at the NEC convention last year in CT. I'll see if I can find a photo.
> Owned by a really nice lady from Mass, who bought the fish at Uncle Ned's Fish Factory in Millis MA (I think Ned special ordered the fish for her).
> 
> I was lucky enough to have sat at the same table with the lady in question at the banquet the night before the voting was tabulated/announced, if I recall correctly her fish was kept solo, no tankmates at all.


I've been told that Judy brought her fish to the OCA convention this fall, and that this is a picture of her fish from the convention.
It does look like the fish I saw at the NEC convention last year - but its not my photo and I wasn't at OCA so I'm not positive it's her fish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/buntbarsch/OCA 2009/Polleni-1.jpg


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## Linilou

Nicee, 

Is it only the bleekeri that have the green faces, like these, 


















and another thread of bleekeri on mfk http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274604

vs. the polleni, seen here,

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3625064&posted=1#post3625064

who seems to have less green, also, it seems the smother sloped head seems to be more of a bleekeri trait, which i like more than the bumped head, personally.


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## TBCStation

There is a lot of confusion about this and conflicting information available. 

There are two species:

Paratilapia Polleni (Small Spot)
Paratilapia Bleekeri (Large Spot / Often with green face / Larger of the two species)

These are both called a variety of common names include 'Starry Night'. 

Here is an excellent write up on them

Both varieties are currently available at cichlidstation.com in various sizes. In the case of the large Bleekeri the pictures are of the actual stock - the others aren't, but pictures are generally available upon request. 


Here is a direct link to the Madagascar Cichlids

If you don't have any luck with your local fish store - feel free to give a call. 

Happy hunting - they are stunning fish, if a bit territorial (and really intolerant of their own species).



Linilou said:


> So ive been looking to get a ''starry night cichlid'' for my new tank, (next year) and now that im doing research I think im about to give up im so confused.
> 
> The first time I saw one, was here, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/cichlid_of_month/Paratilapia_bleekeri.html
> 
> The pictures they have are absolutely GORGEOUS, and i then decided that this, is the fish i shall be getting,
> 
> then with a little more research ive found the Polleni type,
> http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Paratilapia&species=polleni&id=565#top
> 
> here it states that there is no such thing as a bleekeri, and that this fish should be and is just the large and small spot polleni.
> 
> heres a website on the other hand stating they they are indeed two diffrent types of fish,
> 
> http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=117
> 
> and now i dont know what to belive?!
> 
> The only thing that im sure of is that I want a 'bleekeri' and not a 'polleni', i just like the way they look better,
> 
> so if they are indeed the same fish, how do i go about buying one?
> 
> If I go to my LFS and ask for one/order one, how am i to be sure they have the right one?
> 
> 
> 
> allthough, ive found this,
> http://www.cichlidstation.com/servlet/the-107/Tropical-freshwater-fish-Paratilapia/Detail
> a website that sells these so called starry night cichlids, the only thing is that its labeled as a polleni, but looks much more like a bleekeri,
> 
> just more to add to the confusion :/


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## TheOldSalt

Hey, nice info. Thanks!
I really want some of these someday.


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## Linilou

Oh thank you very very much! You all have been so helpfull! In the end, im thinking im going to go with the Bleekeri!

Thank you for all your posts!


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## bleekeri

I know this posting is a couple years old however I am very active with Bleekeri and Polleni...There is a guy in Winnipeg, Manitoba that has a great knowledge of these fish and has taught me alot, so much that I have finally bred these fish. I currently have over 100 bleekeri fry in my tank. All of them are doing very well. Here is a link to his web site and you can contact him through there. His name is Spencer Jack.
http://www.cichlaholic.com/contact.html


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## Corwin

Winnipeg you say? I live in Winnipeg, does he have an actual store? because if he does I may just drop in to case out the joint, there arent a ton of really great LFS in this city so it would be good to find another.


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## emc7

If you get a chance to hear him speak, take it. Trust him on cichlids, he's an "expert in the field". lol.


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## bleekeri

Yes he has a store there. His address is on his website...I buy from him and have to get most of my fish flown in...It would be nice to live in Winnipeg, he has alot of rare and hard to find fish....


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## Corwin

yeah i found the location and have intentions of droping by the shop sometime this week


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## bleekeri

Let me know what you think of his shop when you get there. I know I will be stopping there next time I am in Winnipeg.


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## Corwin

It was nice, he had some rarer fish in my area such as ropefish, and some of the fancier discus. Also his plant selection is excellent and he was quite helpfull with my questions regarding which plants required what, as well as their growth speeds, and where they should go in the tank (foreground, background etc). He also has a HUGE selection of malasian driftwood, most of which remain in pieces the size of your average kitchen table lol. That said the store is only about average (if not slightly smaller) size for a LFS, and he is a bit... curt? I guess thats the right word for it.

Oh and when you are actualy going to the place take into account that it is a bit out of the way and is very easy to miss (doesnt have a big sign and the building is very nondescript), had I not been looking for it I could have driven past that place a dozen times before noticing there was a fish store there.


ps: another good fish store to check out if your ever in the area would be the bird and aquarium store on 1034 Main Street, the people are nice (for the most part) and they have a pretty good selection of FW, and SW as well as a good supply of medicines, and general materials.


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