# Worried!



## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

I noticed some ich on my favorite comet goldfish last night and began treatment (100% organic for my invertebrates) immediately. The thing is I also noticed a serious ammonia spike of 7.0 (I think I've been overfeeding) so I did a 60% water change, siphoning the gravel and the ammonia was still high @ 4.0! I'm very worried that between the medication and the ammonia spike that my goldfish will die. He seems to be a strong and hardy one (as well as his room mate a giant danio), he's grown 3 times his original size since I got him on Halloween and he's survived all the trials and tribulations of a beginner freshwater aquarium. I would be very upset if he died as he's the reason I originally became addicted to aquarium care in the first place. 

Anything I can do to make the next 10 days of treatment easier on him? I plan on doing one or two water changes in-between but I would like to lower the ammonia levels so they don't have two things riding against them. Any good medications/tablets I can get to lower ammonia quickly? Also any way I can clear my tank completely of high ammonia levels, even after siphoning there still seemed to be

Any help or tips is appreciated thanks guys. :help:


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2010)

Well you only did a %60 water change, leaving at least %40 of the ammonia, and the gravel siphoning could have stirred more stuff up.

There are products to use to lower ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates (btw, how are then itrites and nitrates?) but im not sure how those would work with your inverts. Maybe just activated carbon would be the way to go.

Water changes can be stressful, so idk if you want to do one.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Can you add an extra airstone? Ammonia "detoxifiers" such as Prime can reduce oxygen in the water and when you do a big water change, you don't know how much oxygen is in your tap water. But ammonia detoxifiers do work instantly and can help your fish survive a crisis. The other things you can do would be use something like ammo-carb in the filter. It will take out the ammonia, but not instantly, and because it takes it all the way out, there is a chance you can starve your ammonia-eating bacteria and half to recycle the tank. Of course really high ammonia-levels will also kill bacteria, and really high ammonia levels could mean your bacteria is already dead. Also whenever you medicate, there is a risk to your biology. 

I guess the point is, go ahead and get the ammonia under control, but be prepared to cycle the tank again.


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## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

I have long airstone in the water currently. I'm still a beginner so I don't fully understand the "cycle" process but I'm would like to learn it 100% so I can save these fish. Can I buy these "ammonia detoxifiers"? Any certain product name you can personally refer to me? And are they safe for bamboo shrimp / crayfish?

Lemons do you think I should remove the fish and try and drain the tank 100% and start fresh? Is this what you have to do every time there's an ammonia breakout? Perhaps another 60% water change will cut ammonia in half again? And so on and so forth. 

Also EMC7 since I am currently medicating for Ich so I don't have the carbon in my filter, do I need the carbon in to correctly utilize "ammo-carb"? This is a product I know little to nothing about. 

And activated carbon is what?

Remember I have to medicate till about next Sunday. That's 1/17/10. I need to rid this tank of Ich, it's killed fish and returned after every treatment i've given. My girlfriend and I are so tired of seeing this parasite in our once happy little tank. In the end it was my fault for not properly quarantining and checking my new fish - but damn you Petco. You have signed a death note on my tank.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Prime, Amquel+ and several other products claim to "detoxify ammonia and nitrite". In an emergency when you can't change water you can overdose the Prime at 4 times normal. It will use oxygen to "detoxify" the ammonia, so you need the air-stone. Ammo-carb is a blend of an ammo absorber and activated carbon. I think they also sell the ammonia absorbing stuff alone, but its harder to find. You are right that if you put carbon in, it will take your med right out. I have done 100% water changes in case of disease or foul water, I've also done not quite 100% water changes where I take the water level down until the fish start jumping around or laying sideways and then fill it up. It helps i have really good tap water here. It is stressful for fish and a little risky. It helps if you can verify that the temp, pH, and hardness of the new water is very similar to the old water. The bigger that water changes you have done in the past, the more likely big water changes are to be safe. To get ammonia down from 7 to 1, you'd have to change 6/7th of the water. At that point, I'd be inclined to do 100% in the hopes of taking out as much ich as you can.


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## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks so much for the help - I plan on running out on my lunch break and trying to find some Prime at petco.

Tonight or tomorrow I will attempt the 6/7 water change. After I will let you guys know how it's going.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2010)

Okay.
There should never be an ammonia spike. Once you get everything set in your aquarium, it will balance out, and ammonia and nitrite will stay at about 0 all the time, and up to around 25ppm of nitrate is okay, but you do a water change to get rid of it.


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## Cacatuoides (Feb 2, 2009)

For the ich, raise the temp up 1 degree a day until it reaches 80-82 then leave it till next sunday and take it down 1 degree a day until back were desired. Also add a little salt to the water.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I would not get a goldfish tank up to the 80's personally. That will also stress out the goldies and that could cause problems as well. I like the 100% water change because it will pull the ich from the tank as well (certainly not all but it gets you ahead of the game). You can raise the temp in the tank but personally I would not go more than 10 degrees. So you may be able to get away with high 70s. This is also something I could be wrong about and goldies may be able to take that higher temps, I just don't think so given their cold water nature. 

Lemons while there never "should" be ammonia in an established tank there are a lot of things that "will" cause an ammonia spike, which is what is being dealt with here.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2010)

I was just letting her know that it is not a usual occurrence, because she seemed like she thought it would be.


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## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

I...am a dude.


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## Cacatuoides (Feb 2, 2009)

O lol, obs I didn't even think about them being goldies. haha


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Citizen Snips said:


> I...am a dude.


I feel your pain. Everyone thinks I am a dude, but alas I am a chick. Well those who have been here know that but the initial assumption is always that I am male. I swear I don't have that much fur on my face!


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2010)

I too thought Obsidian was a dude... even after talking to her for like 3 hours in chat. But low and behold, I saw a picture of her!

...i cant move my leg because of how asleep it is...


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## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

So after the 95% water change, cleaning of all aquarium props and gravel, adding the ich treatment and stress coat and then finally re-adding the fish and bamboo shrimp everything seemed to be going great. I thought I finally had a grasp on my freshwater aquarium. Everything was fine for about 2 days, until last night when I noticed my danio seemed to be losing it's slime coat. My bamboo shrimp was very happy as usual and the crayfish were fine in their cave on the opposite side of the tank.

Well, I woke up this morning to the shock of not only a dead danio but my goldfish had died as well! No ich spots or anything just dead. My girlfriend and I are pretty upset as we just don't know what went wrong. I know as my first try there are liable to be mistakes made but it sucks. Perhaps just too much stress with the added medication on top could'ave just done them in.

And the cherry on top - my happy shrimp molted last night and was ripped apart by my crayfish during the night. 

I need help. I am most likely going to figure a way of returning the crays and starting fresh. All that's left in the tank right now are the two crays and the 4 or 5 snails that like to hang around.

Does Ich remain in the tank if there are no hosts? Could one of you fish specialists walk me through the cycling process so I can get this right this time and have a happy tank instead of a sick constantly depressing tank?

Thanks for all your help.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

do you want a "fish" tank ; or a "crayfish" tank?
i suggest that you kind of start over...get a 1lb box of iodized salt..
tear down the tank.put the gravel in a bucket..put 1/2 of the salt in and fill with really hot water and put it aside.
put about a gallon or so of water that is just about as hot as you can stand it..add the other half of the salt to it and stir it up..use this mixture to clean the tank (inside and out) and everything else such as heater..filter..decorations etc..the rinse everything really well..(gravel too)
set the tank back up..gravel decorations..filter etc..add the directed amount of dechlorinating agent..set the heater to the desired temp....please note that goldfish do not appreciate warm water..if you are going to get goldfish;do not use a heater...and do not mix with tropical animals..allow the temps to stabilize for a couple of days...
in this time figure out what kind of fish you want..just get a couple of small ones and add them to the tank..you can add a couple more fish each week until you reach your desired stock level.if you don't put any inverts in the tank ; then get a bottle of aquarisol and treat when you first set up.....then treat again once a month as a preventative.
that is my advice...while it is not what i do myself ; ( i do my stuff in a very unorthodox manner) it is what i suggest to you..it will work if you don't screw around with it too much..


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## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

Well luckily I just cleaned the crap out of the tank.

I was thinking of starting with just one or two fish. I have a lot of great caves built and I would love to have a red tail shark that would utilize them.

Any possible friendly tank mates that I could add for this sort of fish? I know they can be quite aggressive with other smaller ones.

The tank in question is a 20 gallon long.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

hmmmm .....couple of dwarf cichlids..cories..plecos..loaches..serpae tetras..tiger barbs..


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## Citizen Snips (Jan 6, 2010)

Alright here's my plan - you let me know if there's anything I'm missing.

Starting today I am going to go buy nitrate/nitrite tester as I currently only have an ammonia tester. Since on Friday night I broke the tank down I feel the tank is pretty clean in terms of foul water and debris. After I do a 50% water change today to remove what little ich medicine is left in the water I'll set the aquarium heater to 82-85 degrees (to perhaps speed up the life of any remaining parasites) and allow two days for the temperature and new filter cart to set. I will be looking to see if my current situation is clear in terms of ammonia and nitrate/nitrite levels because I think my tank has enough bacteria in it to continue cycling (or at least have a nice head start). I will leave the tank fishless for at least 2 weeks with just the snails to mull around as I wait for any ich to die. I read at this site that ich will not live or remain in a tank without a fish host after a week so here's hoping for good results. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

I currently have two large air rocks and a waterfall filter so that the surface of the water will continue to maintain good oxygen flow. 

After this I'd retest the water levels and start thinking about adding the red tail shark and some friends for him. (after they've been quarantined and deemed healthy)

Missing anything?

I sure hope everything works according to plan because it really is a beautiful tank the deserves some happy inhabitants.


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