# Is this PURE ammonia?



## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

I went to Ace Hardware today for some PURE ammonia. The bottle I purchased says " Ammonia - Janitorial Strength Formula", and " Contains 10% Ammonium Hydroxide". There are no other ingredients listed anywhere on the bottle. I shook the bottle up, and it did not foam at the top. If there were other ingredients in the bottle, wouldn't they have to be printed on the label by law? Can anyone verify that what I have purchased is indeed PURE ammonia, and is safe to cycle my tank with. I can post a picture of the bottle if necessary. Thanks so much.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think you've found it. See the review http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957#showReviews


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

HAHAAAAAAAAA! YES YESSSSSSSS! This is good. Thanks emc7. I just cleaned my used 30 out with some white vinegar today, and rinsed it really good. All of the old mineral deposits were removed, and it's looking like a new tank. I bought an API test kit today, and so far tested pH (6.4), and ammonia (0) from my tap water. Then I received a phone call, so now I will test for nitrites, and nitrates. There's an Aquaclear 70, and new lid coming into my lfs hopefully this week. Things are coming together so far, but this is great news about the ammonia.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

I've got 10 ppm nitrate straight out of my tap, smh. I did a search about it, and it seems like that will be okay. Also, I will test PH again, on some water that was sitting out for 24 hrs. That last test was straight out of the tap, and 6.4 may not be my true PH, since I have well water.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

just book marked the page


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

WOW! I just tested the ph of the water that sat out for 24 hours, and it was WAY different than what came straight from the tap! Coming straight from the tap the water tested at 6.4 ph. The water that sat out for 24 hours tested at 7.6 ph! That is a huge difference, and means I will definitely have to let all of my water sit out for 24 hours, before adding to the tank. I just learned something. I might get the high end ph test kit as well, too be sure of what my exact ph is.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Try to get a gH or dH or TDS number. Knowing something about the hardness will tell you a lot about how stable your pH will be.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

Ok, I will get that emc7. I asked my landlord if we had well water, and if there was chlorine in it. He said it is well water, and it does not have any chlorine in it. However, he does have a water softener hooked up, and he said it uses salt ?


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

Why not get a small handful of gravel wrapped in hosiery from an established tank and use that to cycle your tank? Much cheaper this way. That's how I cycled my tank.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Hydroxide? Hmmm... I guess that might work. Ammonium Chloride is the old standby, though.
Personally, I would just use Tetra's SafeStart or Seachem's Stability and have the tank cycled in a few days with no hassle.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

NH4+OH-. just NH3 in water. You do need to watch pH when playing with ammonia.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

Hmmm, so things got interesting?........Of course. Okay, if the ammonia hydroxide isn't the right ammonia, it will not be used. I doubt I can find the ammonia chloride, and don't know anyone that could give me some live gravel at the moment. I guess I'll go the bacteria in a bottle route then. My lfs recommended "Special Blend - Microbe Lift". He deals mainly with salt water, but seems to know what the deal is. There were two lionfish there when I went last Sunday. They were simply amazing! I've never seen one in person before. Just stunning! I'm not sure if the "Special Blend" stuff is what I should use though. Has anyone heard of it before? I could just use one of the two recommendations from The Old Salt, and play it safe. I appreciate all the help with getting my tank going. Thanks very much to everyone.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can do fishless cycling with a Bacteria in a bottle. Adding ammonia and testing is a great way to tell if the stuff is working.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

emc7 said:


> NH4+OH-. just NH3 in water. You do need to watch pH when playing with ammonia.


Hey emc7. Can you explain to me what you mean by this? Does thst mean the ammonia I bought will work?

Ok, I searched it. Nh4 is ammonium chloride. OH is hydroxide. Nh3 is ammonia. Is that correct? I think that means the ammonia I bought will work then. Can you verify though?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

yes it will work. NH4Cl because NH4+ and CL- in water. 

You can do fishless cycling with a Bacteria in a bottle. Adding ammonia and testing is a great way to tell if the stuff is working. Your stuff should work regardless of how. But if you seed your filter bacteria, it will go much faster.

Water softeners traditionally use a big block of salt, sodium chloride, in a tank the water passes though. This replaces some Mg+2 and Ca+2 ions with Na+1, thus cutting down on calcium carbonate scale on pipes and clogged shower heads. This is the cheapest method and very common. Because of health concerns, some replace the NaCl with KCl or a blend of the two. The higher the hardness, the more sodium you get in your water. gH or general hardness measures Magnesium and calcium, kH is carbonate hardness. Since most of the ions come from limestone and similar minerals in the ground, the two numbers usually go together.But sodium is bad for some plants and the rift lakes have lots of magnesium and calcium in them, and not that much sodium, so "unsoftened" water is more similar to the natural conditions. But it will clog your airstone and scale up the biowheels. Most aquarists use "softened" water just because that is what they have.

Modern devices can use a variety of technologies, ion exchange, RO, etc. Any device that lowers "hardness" is a "softener"


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks emc7. You are of vast knowledge.

Okay, I'm just gonna throw this out there. I heard that if you cycle a tank naturally, instead of using bacteria in a bottle, the tank will have a "better" more stable bacteria colony. Also the tank itself will be more stable down the road. Is there any truth to this, or is that statement just hogwash? I realize it would take MUCH longer to cycle the tank without bacteria in a bottle, but if it would spawn a "better", more stable bacteria colony, I would consider it (maybe)


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

years ago some friends and i test cycled 10 gallon tanks six ways from sunday...some methods were faster..some went smoother, and some were pretty crazy...but the easiest method we used was to seed a tank with gravel in a section of pantyhose that came from a well established tank..and a week later add 1 or 2 fish..more if they were small....and a week later a couple more...run in time was reduced some and all the fish did well...
i really prefer to use ammonia provided by the fish....


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

lohachata said:


> but the easiest method we used was to seed a tank with gravel in a section of pantyhose that came from a well established tank..and a week later add 1 or 2 fish..more if they were smal


Ok, so if I seed the tank with gravel from a well established tank, I wouldn't need to add a fish or two right away? Are you saying the bacteria will survive a week without any ammonia in the tank? I like this method too, as it would be the exact same type of ammonia the tank will see during it's lifetime ( not sure there's a difference ).


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i would seed the tank..for the next 4 or 5 days or so i would add a pinch of food..then add a couple of fish..then just treat it as an established tank..add a couple of fish every week or so until you have your desired stocking..


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Some of the early bacteria in the bottle weren't the right ones and colonies didn't last. Modern products have better picks, but they are still aimed at "typical" conditions. Certainly an addition of lots of bacteria can give the illusion of a cycled tank that could still crash in a few weeks. 

You are setting up an ecosystem and eventually selective pressures eventually will give you a colony of bacteria that is right for your fish load, filters, temp, water conditions, etc. I like the idea of seeding from a successful tank with similar water as that is likely to work well. But modern products like Stability have multiple strains selected for aquariums and should also do the trick.

I would avoid any product that wants you to keep adding it, it is likely to be one that doesn't last. 

As to whether going without seeding would give you an optimal strain, I haven't seen any data one way or the other. If you start with chlorinated water, you are either just catching what travels through the moist air or trying to evolve your own from whatever bacteria you happen to start with. This strikes me as a bit haphazard, it may work right away, it may not. Yet, if you keep trying, you will eventually get a good colony. It may work better if you start with well water with its own colonies in it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Once you have one well-established, healthy tank, you can move a sponge filter to nearly instantly cycle the next one.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks to all of the replies, I feel as if I have enough information to start cycling my tank. I hope my filter comes in tomorrow or Sunday. I filled the tank with shower water, and it was 6.7 ph out the tap, and 7.2 ph after 24 hours. It was also 7.2 ph after 48 hours. This is cool cause I don't need a ph high end test kit. I'm going to try and get a hold of some live gravel as well. Starting a tank fishless, with pure ammonia has me curious, So I believe I'm going to try it (just to try it). Oh, I will get the kh/gh test kit as well. This will be my second attempt at cycling a tank. My first attempt was a couple years ago, and I just could not get the tank to cycle (10 gal). I tried for over 3 months. Hopefully, I can get this one established. Thanks to everyone for sharing some of your knowledge with me. I am grateful.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Read the labels on the bottles. The wrong kind of bottled bacteria products are the old stuff that use Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter.
The good stuff uses Nitrospira.
Only a few brands use Nitrospira because only recently were we finally able to put Nitrospira in a bottle and have it stay alive. The older bands use the wrong stuff simply because they came out before we learned how to bottle the right stuff.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

chart the pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate vs. time. Ammonia is basic, nitrite is acidic, a cycle can slow drastically once the pH falls too far below 7.

If you are planning on adjusting pH in your tank, you should do it right from the start. If you are planning on picking fish that like your water as is, you should get a good idea of what that is during your cycle.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

I got an API KH/GH test kit today, and my KH is 53.7 ppm, while my GH is 161.1 ppm. Whatever that means, I'm not sure. I picked up my Aquaclear 70 today(didn't want to wait another week for it to come in at my lfs), so I will begin cycling the tank tonight. I couldn't decide between gravel or sand (the sand was a really fine gravel), so I did not get anything. Need to think about that one. If I get a dwarf cichlid, I heard they like to move the sand around. I'm just concerned about it getting into my filter, but I think I may just go with the sand.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

sand looks nice, but gravel is easier, look at sponge "pre-filters" to keep the sand out of your HOB.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

emc7 said:


> sand looks nice, but gravel is easier, look at sponge "pre-filters" to keep the sand out of your HOB.


Ok, but if I decide to get a dwarf cichlid, do they not require sand? Would a cichlid be ok in a gravel tank?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

they will be just fine in gravel...sand is "not" an absolute must have for them


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

lohachata said:


> they will be just fine in gravel...sand is "not" an absolute must have for them


Thanks Loha. I'm just curious, as to what do you prefer? sand or gravel? I am a bit meticulous, and feel that I could maintain sand if I had too. At the same time, I'm tying to start this tank out as simple as possible, so I may want to go with gravel.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

we use very little "sand"..we will however sift gravel and use the finer grit for certain species..especially for the sell dwellers...we sift down the crushed limestone for them.the only other fine material we use is Black Beauty blasting media..it looks great and is pretty easy to clean..
it is ok to be meticulous , but with fish it is often better to calm it down a little..i don't feel that tanks should be immaculate....


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Post the units on the test results please.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

Those numbers equate to 3 drops of kh test solution, and 9 drops if gh test solution. I think that means I have a soft kh, but slightly hard gh.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I mean like mg/L or ppm or something like that. Should be in fine print on the color chart or in the instructions.


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## thirdgen (Feb 26, 2013)

Oh. Those numbers in my previous post are ppm numbers. I will go back and edit that now, cause I just put the numbers, and didn't put ppm after them. I will fix now. It's a few posts up from this.

They are KH: 53.7 ppm. ( 3 degrees of hardness, or 3 drops of test solution )

GH: 161.1 ppm ( 9 degrees of hardness, or 9 drops of test solution )


Also, does this mean I NEED to use a water conditioner, cause my water is a little hard? Thanks.


I got a betta in the tank a couple days ago. He's got a 30 all to himself right now, lol. Think he might have swim bladder though, so I'm picking up some frozen peas on my way home tonight. He seems to float to the top, and when at the bottom, he points straight down. Looks perfectly healthy besides that though.


Also, I dosed a bottle of Tetra Safestart. It said it had nitrospira in it, so I'll see.


02/04/15- Just an update: I came home tonight, and betta was swimming normally all over the tank. I fed him a pea anyways, which he ate. I guess he just needed to get out of that cup, and get used to his 30 gal.


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