# Black Moor dying! HELP!



## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

I didnt look to make sure this was in the right thread sorry! I NEED HELP! Ive had a black moor for about a week...over the past 3 days hes been laying on the bottom of the tank. we looked online and read some things and it souded pretty normal but he acts like he has no strength and is getting weaker...its hard for him to swim and now hes still breathing but sorta floating around the tank and occasionally trys to swim to his fav spot in the tank under a rock. his eyes are glazy looking and i dunno how long he has! PLEASE HELP ME!


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## Ricker (Nov 23, 2007)

What size tank is he in and what kind of filter a power airstone type etc.... Some people better with goldfish will be able to help yuou out more but I am sure they will ask them questions.


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

10 gallon and a Topfin10 filter and i read something about "Ick"? but we changed the water out yesterday and i have 2 fish. we've had them for a week and the other one is a fancy fantail goldfish. he acts fine.


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

are you running a bubbler? heater? what are your water parameters? Also, a 10 gal tank is way too small for 2 goldies. If anything, you can keep 1 in there for the time being, with frequent water changes. 

Also, you said you changed the water, did you use any water conditioner or anything to treat the tap water?


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

I also just noticed his stomach looks a tiny bit larger than normal. someone PLEASE help me. I love this little guy and dont want him to die!


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

I dont know my parameters...im only 15 and VERY new at this... and yes i used treatment when i changed the water. 10 gallons is small for 2 goldfish?!?!?! omg! thats just 2 TINY fish! one is about 3 inches long and i have a small black moor. i cant afford any more!


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

i would recommend going out and getting some test kits for starters (PH, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia). Are you running a bubbler?


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

I have a TopFin 10 filter that pours water to create bubbles.


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

black moors can get up to 7+ inches. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 20 gal tank for one goldy. Since your moor is young, he should be ok for the time being, until you can provide a larger tank.


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

I just put him in a fish bowl separate from the other and im taking him to the pet store to ask some questions and get some stuff.


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

FishHead said:


> black moors can get up to 7+ inches. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 20 gal tank for one goldy. Since your moor is young, he should be ok for the time being, until you can provide a larger tank.


Now i understand...


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

goldfishlover said:


> I have a TopFin 10 filter that pours water to create bubbles.


You do not have an air pump and bubbler? The filter only filters the water, and does not provide a good amount of bubbles. Not knowing your parameters, it is hard to say what the issue is. I would definitely get some test kits, an air pump and bubbler to start out the process of elimination


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

goldfishlover said:


> I just put him in a fish bowl separate from the other and im taking him to the pet store to ask some questions and get some stuff.


I wouldn't leave him in the bowl. you'll possibly kill him. Fish need filtration, aeration, proper levels of PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and nitrates.


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

Well there are bubbles EVERYWHERE! but im going to the pet store...just got paid so i have some extra money to buy some stuff. Thank you VERY much for your help. Darn...a week and a half ago this started as just a small goldie in a fish bowl like you see in movies next to kids beds...now were talking about treatment kits and 20 gallon tanks ahahahaha


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## Ricker (Nov 23, 2007)

Ya goldfish produce alot of waste many people think they are starter fish but they aren't. Also many people believe you can put like 5 in a 10g big mistake. I agree with fish head get a 20g. I would take one back to petstore and just keep one. Or you can take both back and learn before you get other fish. That is what I did and now my fish all live happy.


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

goldfishlover said:


> Well there are bubbles EVERYWHERE! but im going to the pet store...just got paid so i have some extra money to buy some stuff. Thank you VERY much for your help. Darn...a week and a half ago this started as just a small goldie in a fish bowl like you see in movies next to kids beds...now were talking about treatment kits and 20 gallon tanks ahahahaha


welcome to the drug called fish keeping  and YES, I am an addict.


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

Ricker said:


> Ya goldfish produce alot of waste many people think they are starter fish but they aren't. Also many people believe you can put like 5 in a 10g big mistake. I agree with fish head get a 20g. I would take one back to petstore and just keep one. Or you can take both back and learn before you get other fish. That is what I did and now my fish all live happy.



I know what you mean. I was told, when I started, that a comet can fit in a 30 gal tank with no issues. BOY, was that salesman wrong.:chair:


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

lol...in other words im a bit stupid for getting what ive got? =( i didnt know


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## FishHead (Nov 16, 2006)

goldfishlover said:


> lol...in other words im a bit stupid for getting what ive got? =( i didnt know


no, you're not stupid. Most fish stores care about sales and money. Very few care about the fish. people think goldfish are bowl friendly, easy to take care of fish that stay small. Infact, they get large, are messy, and require proper homes. BETA's can survive in a bowl, but I still wouldn't do it. A filter, bubbler, heater are necessities to fish tanks.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

With a proper filter, a separate air pump and airstone ("bubbler") generally isn't required, unless the tank is grossly overstocked or the temp is well above the goldfish comfort level.
A good hang-on filter will provide enough surface disturbance and circulation to ensure proper oxygen levels in the water.

However, as was noted, that's a small tank (and I suspect, an under-sized filter) for goldfish, and even 1 goldfish will eventually need a bigger home.

Also, even in large tanks, I never recommend adding more than one goldfish at a time - For instance, in a 40g tank I would recommend adding one fish and then waiting 6 months before adding a 2nd.

If you're going back to the same store that sold you 2 fish for a brand new 10g tank - good luck. 
Most reputable stores would try (hard) to talk you out of ANY goldfish for a 10g tank, and certainly wouldn't sell you 2 for an uncycled tank.

Which brings me to what I think the real problem is - your tank is not Cycled.
That means that your tank does not have enough bacteria growing in the tank to process the ammonia produced by the fish. It takes months for those bacteria to grow on their own (which is why I start even large tanks with just one goldfish).
Its probably taken a week for your ammonia level to get high enough to start causing a problem, but now your moor is probably suffering from ammonia poisoning.
In the short term, I would add some ammonia removing chips (zeolite) to your filter, and add a good bacteria culture starter (Seachem Stability, Marineland Bio Spira, etc). adding some Seachem Prime to make the ammonia less toxic wouldn't hurt either.

Some good reading:
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/gen...posting-if-your-fish-dying-your-new-tank.html

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Ruben_Nitrogen_Cycle.html


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## Ricker (Nov 23, 2007)

Ya man you aren't stupid let me tell you a story when I first started. I got a 10g the next day I went to petsmart and got like 14 fish for it. Oh ya sounded good they were all little then a week later most of them died then I just stopped taking care of my fish. 5 years down the line I am back in it now own a 3g salt which some how is still up (accenditly split some cleaner in it while working around it) 10g semi planted and a brand new 55g. So I learned from my mistake and studied little at a time I now know alot of fish and plants now I am working on my biggest project making my 55 a planted tank. Which is hard because it is my first fll planted tank. Just keep on studying and don't never quit lol ( I sounded like a coach/parent there) But GL to you and hope to see updates in the near future any questions just PM me and I will see if I can help. Also if you don't mind me asking what state do you live in?


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

I would say that a 20 even is too small. 29 at least. Don't worry about starting out poorly, we all do.


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## NatBarry (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree...It sounds like swim bladder to me, if it looks bloated and is floating around the tank but not swimming much, then i would say this is your problem


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

Well guys...my little guy didnt make it. I took it to petsmart and they looked at it and said he had Ick and some type of infection. Now we got RidIch to treat my tank but do we really need it? Should I put it in my tank? I have a fancy fantail goldfish that is acting fine...i dont want him to die. He is very active and eating fine...nothing seems different with him.


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

redpaulhus said:


> With a proper filter, a separate air pump and airstone ("bubbler") generally isn't required, unless the tank is grossly overstocked or the temp is well above the goldfish comfort level.
> A good hang-on filter will provide enough surface disturbance and circulation to ensure proper oxygen levels in the water.
> 
> However, as was noted, that's a small tank (and I suspect, an under-sized filter) for goldfish, and even 1 goldfish will eventually need a bigger home.
> ...


We put ammonia treatment in 2 days ago...brandname is Prime 
I got my fish from PetsMart. I got a TopFin (Petsmart brand) starter 10 gallon tank with a TopFin 10 filter. I plan to take it back (they said its returnable anytime used or not) and upgrade to a 20 gallon tank with a new bigger filter and for now ill just keep my fancy goldfish........if i can keep him alive too >.<


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## goldfishlover (Apr 9, 2008)

Great...now the other which is normally extremely active is going in the corner to lay like the other was. However i believe we caught it early for this particular fish (or not...idk) because i started treating him before he was showing symptoms.


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