# Just a quick question



## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

Alright i just bought a betta and i would judt like to know.
If i put him in my 5 gallon tank without a filter but do a 25% water change a week would this be ok?


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

Yep, if it is already cycled. You may want to more frequent water changes (not vacuuming) maybe a gallon or so until it gets completely cycled. You will just have to keep a close eye on the water params.

Do you have a heater?


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

Thats another thing i don't this is a tank i put aside because i got a bigger 1 so its just about bare only really has some decorations and a top


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

Bettas come from the muddy rice patties in the orient.
They can live in a cup of nastey water. 
But they do like to be warmer, say 76-78.
Just do the water changes, and he'll be fine.


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## MaryPa (Jan 25, 2006)

I borrowed this from Quagaar of www.aquatic-hobbyist.com. This man knows his Bettas.
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Heres some of my thoughts against betta vases, please feel free to let me know if you have them, like them or even despise them as I do. 
Bettas get the bum deal in this hobby and are now equally as poorly provided for as goldfish in the homes department. 

Bettas are anabantoid, which in laymans terms means they possess a labyrinth organ. This is a clever little organ that works like a lung and permits the fish the ability to breath at the surface as well as get oxygen from its gills. and if it was that clean and clear they would be ideal fish for any environment. But, you guessed it, it's not. They actually have poor quality gills which are more geared to flare and show off than get oxygen from water. They get around 90 percent of their oxygen need from the surface and the remaining 10 percent from water and their gills. Now this requirement means they need a lot of surface area to breathe, and vases can't provide that, being tapered. If bettas can't get their oxygen requirements from the surface, they can't fall back on their gills as they just arent good enough, so drowning is the end of it. 

Vases contain very little water. Bettas produce ammonia by eating, poohing and breathing and any uneaten food is rots down to produce ammonia as well, so managing the water quality in a vase is hard work. A filter is a definate requirement for healthy water conditions and does a couple of seperate jobs. Filters for bettas aren't needed to oxygenate the water, so fast flowing water isn't needed or desired. The filter's job is simple. Firstly it pulls all the waste matter and bits of crud out of the water column and traps them in the filter media. This serves the purpose of keeping the water free of little particles which agitate the bettas slime coat and can cause infections. Its second and more prominent job is to provide a massive ammount of surface area for the good nitrifying bacteria (the guys that eat ammonia and nitrite) to live on. One small filter sponge can be home to many millions more single celled nitrifying bacteria that the entire surface area of a vase. This enables a good colony of bacteria to be present there to deal with the ammonia and nitrite as they are delivered straight to them thus keeping the water quality good for longer. Large regular water changes are still required, but these are 50 percent once per week in a 10 gallon with a filter as opposed to 70 percent every 2 days without. 

Now we come to something else missed from vases and equally important to the betta's well being. The heater. Bettas are tropical fish which come from hot climates and large bodies of water that aren't subject to temp swings when it gets cooler at night. Vases will easily drop many degrees to match room temp in the cooler evenings. This is very stressful to the betta who prefer a constant stable and as we all know stress leads to a reduction in the immune system which allows infectious bacteria, which lives more abundently in vases than tanks as they have no filters, to attack the fish. See how lack of one thing knocks on and makes the second condition worse? 

Plants. Now most of these vases are designed around the peace lilly. What a mental image this conjures up! Peace around the globe, and at the expense of the health and well being of one of God's creatures. Kinda ironic, or is it moronic, you tell me? Bettas need soft bushy plants to feel safe and secure. They like to dash between the leaves of a plant to escape a predator. Filling the vase with lilly roots isn't the same as the foliage of a bushy plant. Even if it was a good bushy plant, it only goes to reduce the surface area the betta so desperately requires to breathe. 

So vases are death traps, plain and simple. They have only one redeeming feature - they look good with plants in. However, they should be outlawed for keeping a betta in. 

The sad fact is bettas are little more that window dressing or ornaments. They are not considered living breathing creatures. People see them in 4oz cups in the supermarket and think their vase that looks so wonderful on the mantlepiece would be the ideal home for the little guy. Sad fact is, its out of the frying pan and into the fire. If anything in this post doesn't convince people to keep their betta in a nice square 5 gallon or even better a 10 gallon with filter, heater and plants then nothing will. But if you can convince even 1 person to throw the vase away and get the fish what it needs then your attempts wont be in vain and I will support you in that.


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

I apologize, I misread your first post and understood WITH filter. I you don't have a filter in this tank, it won't cycle at all and you will need to do 100% water changes weekly.

Bettas, like all other fish, create ammonia, and it can be deadly to them. If you only do 25% changes, you are only diluting the ammonia so that your betta is in constant stress which in turn breaks down his immune system.


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## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

sueM, i thought you knew better than that?

bettas are fish and deserve good water conditions just like any other fish. they need a cycled tank the right temp with room to swim around and move. a 5g tank is fine for a betta, but he does need a filter and heater to keep the tank clean and provide a place for bacteria to colonize.

the rice paddies in thyland are several thousands of gallons and are fed by irrigation streams. during the dry season, they do dry up and the bettas are forced to live in tiny puddles, and many of them die.

so why would someone want to recreate a fish's habitat during the absolute worst part of the year when the fish is stressed, starving, and many of them die? wouldn't you rather recreate their habitat during most of the year when they have tons of room to swim, fresh clean water, and are happy, healthy, and breeding?

just because a betta can survive for about 6 months in a little cup doesn't mean it should.


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

Alright well if it makes you feel any better i went out and bought some plants,gravel and heater but still no filter.also i was wondering if i drop in a bag of carbon will this help anything or will little peices of the carbon come out and harm the fish?


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## RockabillyChick (Nov 18, 2005)

don't bother with carbon. its only really good for removing medication from the water, or tannins from driftwood. 

you will have to do frequent water changes to keep the water clean, but since bettas don't rely too much on dissolved O2 in the water, he doesn't really need a filter for that. he can probably wait until you can get a filter.


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## sambi7878 (Dec 23, 2005)

IMO, filter is not really a must in a betta tank. As long as you keep up on your water change and provide a good tank size for your betta. :fish:


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

So im hearing i need to do 100% water change would it be ok to do 50% water change twice a week instead so the fish doesnt get stressed


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Honestly I think a filter should be bought, not right now but look into it. Like said, bettas CAN survive in some of the worst water out there. BUT just because they can doesn't mean they should be subjected to it. Bettas are some of most misunderstood creatures in this hobby despite being one of the most widely kept fish, actually if you ask me they are one of the most widely kept animal in the world.

Basicly everyone thinks they can rely on they're ability to breathe oxygen from the air so they skip filters, etc. Bettas and all labyrinth fishes, etc. can breathe oxygen....period. They may be hardy but like any fish, poor water quality hurts them. Bettas can survive with close to no oxygen and poor water quality in the wild...FOR SHORT PERIODS OF TIME. SO honestly does anyone think bettas are in little mud holes with almost no oxygen they're whole lives?

My favorite quote about this whole situation is actually something i've heard from a customer in walmart one day.

The little kid asked if they could get this little cup they call a bowfront betta vase. The mom said no it's too small etc. Well the other person..aunt I think asked why not they are in cups over there... She proceeded to say
" Well lets stick you in a little round container that you can barely see out of, are cramped up because the container is half the size of you, and sprinkle ammonia on you constantly".


Also, the little bowls should not be used. The have even been outlawed in places like rome I think because they have been known to cause fish to go blind.



And kyle, thx for taking our advice and making life for your betta a little less stressful! For the water change, little water changes here and there are actually better for your fish than if you did it all at once.


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

yea i've been keeping his temperature at 80 his tank water is slightly cloudy but i do know this happens for awhile when just starting a tank out and i am going to buy a filter i just don't have the money at the moment.
Yet another question which im pretty sure i know the answer to i have 2 kinds of tetras and i was wondering if i could put these guys with the betta it looks lonely they are red fins and black long fin and a black widow (All Tetras) the main thing im worried about is if they could survive with out filter aswell.


Incase you didnt know i would only put 2 tetras in because i have 2 of each


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

I wouldn't put them together. They probably wouldn't go good together in a smaller tank and they wouldn't likely survive ling without a filter.


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

alright well im going to have to put my gppiues fry in with the betta because i know it will be killed with all the fish in my 12 gallon what you think?


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

It will eat the guppy fry like there's no tomorrow. Try getting a breeder net or something.


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

but will it be like a fat guy at buffet eat till he dies?


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

It'll eat until it's stuffed. If they are small enough he'll have no trouble decimating them. When I put guppy fry with my old betta it ate about half of them in about a day.


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2006)

alright thanks ill see because this may sound mean but i just don't have the time,Money,Space to raise some fry guppies so if i can find something lying around or ask around some of my friends see if i can pull something together.
And thanks alot again guys for answering all my questions.


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## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Yup, no prob that's what i'm here for! Know where your coming from wit the guppies. I had nowhere to put mine take up a lot of my time whenI was always gone so just put them in the tnak and said heck with it.


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