# Want to Plant my 75 gallon..



## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Hello all I am looking for ideas!!

So I am wanting to re-do my 75 gallon tank. Right now I have rocks and fake plants. I really would like to put in sand and a bunch of real plants. I don't know much about plants so it would need to be more easy to keep alive plants.

Oh and I am thinking about getting a "sunken ship". I know prob a lot of people think they look stupid, but something about them intrigues me. So I guess in my vision I want a nature-ish looking bottom of a lake: ie sunken ship, sand, plants, maybe some drift wood..

Sooo let me know what you think would look cool


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## Schwartzy61 (Jan 25, 2010)

Right on, sounds like you have a pretty sweet aquascape idea. As for what I vision..

Keep the shipwreck off to one side of the tank, either left or right.
Whichever side does not have the ship, plant some hairgrass or dwarf baby tears and carpet the area.

Behind the shipwreck have some plants that will eventuall drape over it, like dwarf sag, or a lengthy plant, then fill in your midground and background some more. Just an idea, I tend to get crazy.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Uhhh with those plants...dont forget to tack on the medium-high light and some sort of co2 system. scratch the hairgrass and baby tears and use micro swords to avoid the co2 upgrade.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you for your idea! I do like the idea of not having the ship the focal point, but more of an accessory to the plants and fish.



grogan said:


> dont forget to tack on the medium-high light and some sort of co2 system


So i have been really thinking about this, like non-stop lol, and i figure if I'm going to do this, why not go all out. What would you guys recommend for a great substrate? And would liquid co2 work, or do i need some sort of system? If so what kinds do you recommend?


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

For substrate I recommend eco complete. It is a great plant substrate and is readily available at most stores. The liquid co2 is great but will only go so far. If you plan on having a designer planted aquarium that you see all over the net forget about it. Plus with liquid co2 you have to dose every day. This gets old and is why I eventually made the switch. As far as what equipment to recommend that really depends on your budget for this project.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

grogan said:


> For substrate I recommend eco complete.


That is what I read online. Except someone posted that you cannot Siphon Vacuum it. Something about the eco complete does not stay in the tank?




grogan said:


> As far as what equipment to recommend that really depends on your budget for this project.


I dont have a set budget. I just want to do it right from the start. I am going to make sure I do plenty of research and plan it all out before I buy anything.

So what are some of the equipment you would recommend?


Oh.. and what are your guys' thoughts on undergravel filters?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

a lot of folks don't like undergravel filters because they are not "high tech" enough... i love them....they keep your tank clearer and will cycle it faster than other filters....plants also like UG filters because they draw the water and nutrients down to the plant roots so they feed better...
but that's just my opinion as i am no expert on this kind of stuff...


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

lohachata said:


> a lot of folks don't like undergravel filters because they are not "high tech" enough... i love them....they keep your tank clearer and will cycle it faster than other filters....plants also like UG filters because they draw the water and nutrients down to the plant roots so they feed better...
> but that's just my opinion as i am no expert on this kind of stuff...


I have been seeing very mixed reviews online about them.

But what I am thinking about getting is the Fluval 406 External Filter. . . Any thoughts from you wise ones? ;-)


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

I would go with the canister. A UGF certainly is not going to work with any plant specific substrate as most of these are a mix of medium to fine gravel plus a little sand. A planted tank does not need to be gravel vacced at all anyway. The canister is ideal because it provides high flow and very little surface agitation. 

If you want to go high tech planted the tank is going to be a lot more work. You are looking at weekly large water changes, possibly daily fertilizer addition, and often pruning. Cost for a high tech planted tank is quite high. The upkeep can be a lot too if you do not take on some DIY methods, which in themselves require more time and research. Simply going high tech does not mean you are doing anything 'right'. This is just one method to keeping a planted tank, it certainly is not the only method. 

To go planted in a 75 gallon your gonna need better filtration, Lights will definitely have to be upgraded, and likely change substrate for starters.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Mikaila31 said:


> If you want to go high tech planted the tank is going to be a lot more work. You are looking at weekly large water changes, possibly daily fertilizer addition, and often pruning. Cost for a high tech planted tank is quite high.


I have researched quit a bit and I am definitely up for the challenge!





Mikaila31 said:


> The upkeep can be a lot too if you do not take on some DIY methods, which in themselves require more time and research.


DIY ?? What does that stand for?





Mikaila31 said:


> To go planted in a 75 gallon your gonna need better filtration, Lights will definitely have to be upgraded, and likely change substrate for starters.


So I'm pretty sure my plan is to go with a substrate like eco complete and the Fluval 406 Canister Filter. As for co2 that is still something I am unsure about. Lighting is something that i have looked into, its just a matter of purchasing a new good quality hood.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

diy is do it yourself. try mountain scape!


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Betta man said:


> try mountain scape!


I love the pictures of tanks with a mountain scape. My only draw back is I would want to find more like caves then just big rocks. I would feel bad for just throwing in rocks and taking away their swimming area. But if i could find large rocks with caves in them it would be perfect. Then it could provide hiding places and still look cool.


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## Ladayen (Jun 20, 2011)

I would skip the Co2 honestly. It's not needed for most plants, and is another factor to keep track of.. meaning more problems.

Before you go and spend the money on the substrate perhaps have a look around at a few plants and see what appeals to you. Java fern and anubias are probably the most popular plants there are, and they are attached to decor or driftwood not buried in the substrate. Dont forget about floating plants either  Water sprite is a good one. Duckweed is common as well, although emphasis on the weed part. It can be difficult to get rid of should you decide lol.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

While there are several low light plants that don't require co2 that does not mean they are easy tanks to maintain. A highly planted low light tank is still going to require work and research.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

Betta man said:


> diy is do it yourself. try mountain scape!


+1 mountain scapes are awesome.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

I agree CO2 isn't needed, but grogan is right. A high tech and nicely done low tech are both just as hard. CO2 is expensive though. 

You will likely need to do DIY fertilizers unless you plan on wasting considerable amounts of $ on store bought liquids. Most make their own.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

75s are deep. Even for low-light plants, if you want them on the bottom, you'll need more than 1 strip. A shop light with 2 T8 is likely the cheapest way to go, but double light strips with glass lids work nicely and look better. To do Co2 in that deep a tank, you'd need even better (more expensive, hotter) lights. 

The main drawback of UGFs is that they are "nitrate factories" because they trap crap and keep it in the tank. Having a tank heavily planted solves the issue. You just have to dose potassium, phosphorus and all the non-nitrate stuff plants need. But plants stick their roots into the slits in the plates and tie them in knots underneath. So it will work nice for a "weedy lake" naturist tank. But if you are the OCD type that is moving plants around all the time to make your tank look like a landscape painting, you will get aggravated fast. 

Putting plants at different levels can solve the 'right amount of light' issue. Java fern tied to the top of tall stuff is weird-looking but you wouldn't need much light. People who want carpets of grass often have half-height tanks.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you all for your input! I really appreciate it . Like i said at the beginning, i have a lot of research still to do. But I like to get people's opinions who have experience in planted tanks.




emc7 said:


> 75s are deep. Even for low-light plants, if you want them on the bottom, you'll need more than 1 strip. A shop light with 2 T8 is likely the cheapest way to go, but double light strips with glass lids work nicely and look better. To do Co2 in that deep a tank, you'd need even better (more expensive, hotter) lights. .


Okay so double lighting sounds like a good idea due to the depth of my tank. Do any of you recommend any sites to order lighting from?




emc7 said:


> The main drawback of UGFs is that they are "nitrate factories" because they trap crap and keep it in the tank. Having a tank heavily planted solves the issue. You just have to dose potassium, phosphorus and all the non-nitrate stuff plants need. But plants stick their roots into the slits in the plates and tie them in knots underneath. So it will work nice for a "weedy lake" naturist tank. But if you are the OCD type that is moving plants around all the time to make your tank look like a landscape painting, you will get aggravated fast.


Alrighty so no UGF.. I'll stick with getting a canister.


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

from what i've researched so far, having good lighting without fertilizers and co2 kind of frys the plants. its kind of like eating too much of one thing, if that makes sense. you could eat steak all day, but then you'll be missing nutrients from fruits, vegetables, etc.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Balancing the light is important. I think you can do 2 fluorescent bulbs without ferts and Co2, but not 4. With 4 bulbs, you have to worry about heat as well, you might need to put fans in or raise it up on feet. Cooler than fluorescent and lower electrically usage are LED light, but they are more pricey. 

I think you can do 2 lights with just "daylight" bulbs and low light plants. Get them from any online petsupply place. Any more than that and I think you need more research. Check out plantedtank.net and maybe get a planted tank book. Then look at specialty aquarium lighting sites.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

On a 75 you will probably want T5 bulbs instead of T8's. If you go with T5's then 150-180 watts total would be ideal IMO. If you go with T8's you will need more then that. Look for good fixtures. I know catilena aquarium has good reviews, but I have not had any experience with them myself.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html

Im sure shooting you to another forum will irritate some but this thread explains it better than I can. Basically the author took parr measurements off Takashi's tanks and poster the results. This is how I was able to find the balance between my lights, fertilizers, and co2.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

here is a link to an awesome deal on a light.....

http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-3x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Digi-Timer-Fixture-p/52315.htm

you can buy a co2 tank..initial cost is about $100.00...but it will last quite awhile...then it should cost about $12-$15 to refill it...a good set of gauges and the rest of it about another $100......
for the tank and gauges go to your local welders supply.....you will need gauges made for co2...o2 and other gas gauges do not work properly....

and i agree about buying dry ferts and mixing your own....it is much much cheaper and allows you to adjust to suit your needs...


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

grogan said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html
> 
> I'm sure shooting you to another forum will irritate some but this thread explains it better than I can. Basically the author took parr measurements off Takashi's tanks and poster the results. This is how I was able to find the balance between my lights, fertilizers, and co2.


I checked out the site and compared it with the light below



lohachata said:


> here is a link to an awesome deal on a light.....
> 
> http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-3x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Digi-Timer-Fixture-p/52315.htm


After looking at the light and the post on plantedtank forum, I think if I'm reading correctly that light is to bright for my tank. But i found this light
http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-2x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52123p.htm
on the same website. This one only has two bulbs and would fall into the medium/high light from the graph on the other forum. This light doesn't have all the bells and whistles but it would provide the right amount of light i think.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am new to all this and could easily misunderstand this stuff.

I also want to do it one step at a time. I already found the filter, now to get the light. Then find the plants i can have with that amount of light, then address the co2 and fertilizers per the plants. This might seem back wards to some of you, but it works in my head


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Kimberly said:


> I checked out the site and compared it with the light below
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Odyssea is really cheap lighting and price reflects quality. If you go with those get the 3 bulb one. You can not go by wattage alone, you need to factor in the quality of the fixture. Odyssea comes with cheap parts and that effect its overall output. It is going to have a single reflector for all bulbs where as any nice efficient fixture will have individual reflectors. The moonlights on it will be practically worthless. 4 LEDs can light a 15 gallon okay, in a 75 they look pathetic. I personally would get something better, but it all comes down to budget. I'm to the point I where build most my lights as I'm overly picky and they slap a big premium on those things.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I hate to say this, but it is really hard to do high-light, high tech step by step. You have to balance the lights, the plants, the CO2 and the ferts or you get issues like algae blooms . You can dial back the CO2 and add ferts and plants little by little, but lights are either off or on, all you can do is shorten the on time. 

Make 3 lists, of what you would need for low, medium, and high light. Price out everything. You don't want to run out of money half way. Take your time. Include electricity for the lights.

Don't forget to look for local resources. You should go to this http://aquarium.mn/component/eventlist/details/24


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Funny that MAS should come up in here. I'm a member there, though I don't go unless there is an auction or show lol. You might be able to snag some deals off minnfish.com which is the local MAS forum. As of 2/9 there was a almost complete 5lb CO2 system, with reg, tank, solenoid, ect for $200. But again depends how close you are. I'm basically right on the boarder of WI/MN and its still usually a 30-40 minuet drive to go to events. But most my fish, plants, and tanks come from MAS. Hang around or come to the end of the 6-8 hour long auctions and there are lots of good deals. Average tank prices are usually $1 a gallon on the forum but auctions they can dip way below that.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think I was looking at your location, Mikaila. Don't forget MAAH in Madison, or MAS in Milwaukee. Local boards are a great source of used stuff and plants.

If you want to get serious about plants, the AGA is the place. These are the people who select fish to bring out the color in their plants. I would personally never sink that much time or money into an underwater garden, but the results are really pretty.

And the fish clubs will also have people like me who do fishtanks with plants on the cheap, too.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

emc7 said:


> If you want to get serious about plants, the AGA is the place. These are the people who select fish to bring out the color in their plants. I would personally never sink that much time or money into an underwater garden, but the results are really pretty.
> 
> And the fish clubs will also have people like me who do fishtanks with plants on the cheap, too.


Yeah AGA is for the super serious lol. While those tanks are beautiful and I give all props to the people that put in the effort to make them, its not something I would ever try. You described them perfectly IMO an "underwater garden". It is peoples' best attempt at removing the nature from nature IMO, similar to a flower garden. While they are beautiful, they just lack the quiet chaos and randomness that is nature.


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