# Horrible Problems



## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

The first fish to have a problem was a 12" lapradei. His eye completely bubbled out. He is in a 450g with pbass, a huge silver aro, and a few other big preds including a 12" ornate. No one else had a problem. He seems completely fine now.
Next was a 5" h. psittacus in my 180g. I had recently moved him there and figured that it was my net that had irritated his eye. It was a little bit white, but not really swollen like the bichir had been. It went away, then a few weeks later came back. It's still white after about a month. 
Then one of my two wide bar dats in the 180g got it, and his eye swelled. To the point where it seemed to have popped. His eye is no longer swollen, but is still white, and he seems to be blind from that eye. The other dat (both 6-8"), a black aro and two gold severums seems completely fine. I also aquired a big rotkiel severum, who I put in that tank.. after all of this happened, but while the dat and psittacus still had white eyes (as they still do). He had taken a 5 hour car drive, so I assumed he'd be stressed. I drip acclimated him from a big tub to the tank fairly quickly (only about 10 min). As soon as he got in the tank he had a white eye and he seemed to have some fin rot. Within days, his eye got whiter and his fins almost completely rotted away. 
I normally do 30% or so wc a week in that tank, but since the dat's eye got swollen, I upped to 50-60% twice a week. 
After one of these water changes, I thought the mag 24 that powers my sump had died. I took about 10 minutes trying to get it to work, then another 10 trying to figure out what to do with the "infected" fish in the 180g. I made the decision to put the two gold severums in my 55g with a 5" fahaka puffer. After I plopped them in the 55g, I decided that I wanted to try with the pump again, because I didn't want any bad fish in my 450g. I plugged and unplugged it several times very quickly and it started going. I decided to temporarily leave the sevs in the 55g to decrease the bio-load in the 180g to see if that would help the infected fish.
The two male sevs like to act like they're spawning, and did so in the 55g. They stayed their, hovering over a cleared away space for about two weeks. The fahaka stayed in a corner of the tank. The day before yesterday I decided that the fahaka needed to be alone again, so I put the sevs back into the 180g. Last night, I get to my fish room, and the fahaka is floating with one swollen white eye. 
I knew that when I moved the sevs into the 55g I was taking a chance, but I thought it was pretty limitted. I feed ALL of my pred fish (20g, 30g, 55g, 75g, 90g, 180g and 450g) the same food. When I do get feeders I put them in all of the tanks. I perform the same kind of maintanence on each tank. Only the 75g and 450g have UV sterilizers. 
So I understand that puffers are fairly fragile fish. What the sevs pretty obviously were carrying, but not showing any signs of, did him in. But the 75g has clown loaches, another pretty fragile fish. They seem perfectly fine. But then again, that tank has a UV sterilizer. 

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm trying to give as much info as possible so someone may recognize something. Thanks for any help!


----------



## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

please don't take offense to this, but coming from someone who works at a pet store, i would NEVER, EVER recommend feeders to anyone unless their pet just WOULD NOT eat anything else. feeders are bred and raised in very crowded, unsanitary conditions and whenever we get new shipments, they are always sick and infect our entire feeder tank. i always discourage people from buying them, but i can't outright refuse to sell them [thanks, f*cked corporate policy!] it's very likely your fish caught some disease from the feeders, perhaps not all of the fish because they may have different degrees of resistance. don't feed feeders, for the sake of your fish!


----------



## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

I understand the risks of them, but I also think there is a lot that preds can benefit from them as well. I believe that what's going on probably came from feeders. I need to know how to treat... and why is it only popping up in some of the fish. Like the psittacus is a cichlid.. Normally pretty hearty fish. Puffers aren't as hardy... I guess from being exposed to whatever it is from the severums from the 180g that had no visible symptoms. So it's not like it's something where the fish in question had to eat an infected feeder. Yet the clown loaches in the 75g are all fine.


----------



## Guest (Nov 1, 2007)

Certainly sounds like a bacterial infection, and my money's on the feeder fish as well. Are goldfish the staple diet of your preds? Goldfish aren't the most nutritional fish to be using. If your fish weren't getting the proper nutrition they need to maintain a healthy immune system, they become vulnerable.

Some eye infections can clear up on their own, as exhibited by your lapradei. The clowns are in your 75g? Doesn't sound like that tank was infected in your post...probably why the clowns weren't. Not all of the feeders had to of had or been carrying what caused the infection, but it does seem like the link in the other tanks. 

For now: I'd suggest treating with an antibacterial/antibiotic (Maracyn, perhaps) to clear up the situation. Keep up the water changes.

In the future: Don't use golds as a staple food, if you are. If you're set on using them (I don't recommend it), then take the time to quarantine them. They're hardy fish and signs of illness aren't always that apparent with them.

Good luck .


----------



## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

Number one they aren't gold fish. When I have to I use rosies, but most of the time when I do use feeders they are fathead minnows. I "treat" the 180g with them occasionally, but it's staple is shrimp and catfish filet. The 75g's staple is feeders, rosies or fat heads, because the pbass in there haven't been trained from live yet. Which makes even LESS sense. And I am in the process of training them from live, after which their diet will be market seafood like the the other big pred tanks. 

Now, what happened today.....
I moved 3 prochilodus from the 75g to my 90g and an o. niger from the 90g to the 75g. I used the same large net I use for most of my fish. The prochilodus are fine, but the niger has a white eye already!!!! Hopefully this is just a physical condition from the net. 

How much should I dose with maracin?? I have very big bio filters, but since I've never used meds like that, i want to be extra cautious. I don't want to destroy the bio.


----------



## Guest (Nov 2, 2007)

Just wanted to be sure about the goldfish .

I have heard of bacterial infections being carried on nets, which was my second idea. I can't seem to find anything on it right now, but I'd get rid of that net and use seperate nets for each tank, if you can.

I'm not sure of the dosing on maracyn (this is Maracyn Two, by the way). I'm sure it'll have dosing instructions on it.


----------



## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

I have 13 tanks, and I generally don't keep the same fish in the same tanks for long periods of time, so it seems like seperate nets for each tank wouldn't help that much. 

The net hasn't hurt the prochilodus, the gold severums, another niger, a rtcxperruno and 20 neon tetras. I've used it for all of these fish in the last few weeks with no problems... Can't I bleach it or something?


----------



## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

we use this crap at work called "net soak" i'm not sure who makes it, but you fill up a gallon container with water and add it to it. it's supposed to kill off bad stuff, but you can use the net straight out of the container.

here it is: http://www.aquariumguys.com/netsoak1.html


----------



## Danh (Feb 19, 2007)

cool thanks..

The niger was healed completely today. No sign of anything on his eye.

I moved some two silver dollars from a 20g to a 55g with a different net and they immediately showed it too. Hopefully it is only a physically wound and will go away tomorrow like the niger did.


----------

