# Poor quality of fish in pet stores/LiveAquaria.com



## PHAT (Mar 30, 2005)

I live in the Princeton, NJ area. I have recently purchased fish from three different pet stores. Here's the results:

Store 1: Purchased 3 platys and 2 swordtails. 1 swordtail survived after three weeks. Ick got them.
Store 2: Purchased 3 silver dollars and 1 swordtail. 2 silver dollars and 1 swordtail survived after three weeks. I don't know why the silver dollar died. No visible disease. 
Store 3: Purchased 1 red hook met and 1 platy. The platy has survived after a week and a half. Ick again. Very rapid. One day the fish was clean, the next covered with those darn parasites.

Each time these fish were put into a quarantine tank where the water quality was well within limits on all points. The tank was cleaned out and refilled with each purchase.

Is it just me or is the quality of the fish very poor of late? Maybe it's just in the Princeton area or maybe I'm just unlucky.

I did notice poor practices at the pet stores. Scooping water from one tank in order to bag fish from another tank. Repeated use of the same net. Maybe the tanks share the same filtering system though so it makes no difference. But maybe this sharing is becoming more common and is causing the problems?

This has caused me to think about getting my fish from some place called liveaquaria.com. Has anyone ordered from here before? What happened? Good idea? They're a bit more expensive but I'm willing to pay for healthier fish.

Thanks in advance.


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

How long did it take between your time of purchasing? How about the info about your tank? 


> Each time these fish were put into a quarantine tank where the water quality was well within limits on all points. The tank was cleaned out and refilled with each purchase.


How did you clean the tank? How long do you isolate the newbies?


> I did notice poor practices at the pet stores. Scooping water from one tank in order to bag fish from another tank. Repeated use of the same net. Maybe the tanks share the same filtering system though so it makes no difference. But maybe this sharing is becoming more common and is causing the problems?


 It should! But most petshops here just use about 1 net for a row of tanks.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2005)

maybe your fish keep croaking because you dont cycle your tank with each clean out.


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## PHAT (Mar 30, 2005)

I don't think that's it. I use the water from an established tank that has no problems.

The quarantine tank is 30 gal. I have a whisper with a bio-sponge and, of course, a heater. However, there's no gravel in the quarantine tank.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2005)

gravel doesnt really make a difference. it could be the pet store but before blaming them, lets take a look at your water.
what are the water specs?
ammonia, nitrates, ph, nitrites etc


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## PHAT (Mar 30, 2005)

> How long did it take between your time of purchasing? How about the info about your tank?


A few weeks between each.



> How did you clean the tank? How long do you isolate the newbies?


Emptied the tank, rinsed it, wiped it down, rinsed it again, and let it dry out at least a day. Also, Rinsed the filter, pipes, and heater with hot water and let them dry out. That should get rid of any ich.

I usually isolate them for three weeks. I made a mistake with the last one and introduced a healthy looking fish after only a few days (the now dead red hook met I mentioned before). Now my established tank is infected with ich. I Won't make that mistake again!

BTW, I'm not Vietnamese. PHAT is a little "inside joke". Nothing to do with Vietnam though!


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## PHAT (Mar 30, 2005)

> what are the water specs?
> ammonia, nitrates, ph, nitrites etc


Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: around 2.5 ppm.
PH: 7.5 
Phosphates: 0
Temp: 74*F

I don't have a hardness test kit, so I don't have that spec.


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

> Emptied the tank, rinsed it, wiped it down, rinsed it again, and let it dry out at least a day. Also, Rinsed the filter, pipes, and heater with hot water and let them dry out. That should get rid of any ich.


I'd pour boiled water in...  Dunno it it helps but I did!


> BTW, I'm not Vietnamese. PHAT is a little "inside joke". Nothing to do with Vietnam though!


OK! Sorry..


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## maxpayne_lhp (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, I dun really know that frshwater fish are required to be isolated that long. I usually just introduce them to the tank after several mins. Are you sure that the problem is still there? Not at petshops or isolating tank?
G'day


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## Mr Aquarium (Jan 18, 2005)

If it was me, I think I would keep a Very hardy fish in the QT to keep it cycled. Keeping the tank going with a hardy fish will keep it cycled and the slim and good bact. built up,
You say your fish you was buying all died from ick?

Chances are good from most LFSs that your fish will come down with ick anyway, so Why don't you keep the heat up in the tank so ick won't last long enough to kill them? At least 86/87* should be just fine and the chances of Ick killing them would be dramaticly redused.
One more thing, Don't you treat your QT tank with any meds?
Like Quick Cure for Ick?

You didn't mention any of that......


Myself, i like to look at my fish, so I catch Ick when it is only a couple spots or so on the fish, then I turn up the heat and in the next day no more spots, and I leave the heat up at least 5 days min. 7 at the most.
I don't use Quick Cure much unless something gets covered in ick faster then most fish do.


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## PHAT (Mar 30, 2005)

> Chances are good from most LFSs that your fish will come down with ick anyway, so Why don't you keep the heat up in the tank so ick won't last long enough to kill them? At least 86/87* should be just fine and the chances of Ick killing them would be dramaticly redused.
> One more thing, Don't you treat your QT tank with any meds?
> Like Quick Cure for Ick?


I don't use meds in QT right now. It sounds like a good idea. Thanks.

There seems to be a lot of controversy about heat and ich. Some articles say raising the temperature to 86*f or above will prevent most strains of ich from reproducing. So this alone should be enough to get rid of it. Of course, it may get rid of the fish that can't stand high temperatures also!

BTW, I'm currently trying to cure a ich infestation using a combination of salt, heat, and a diatom filter. 

First, I am continously running a diatom filter on the infested tank.

Second, I raised the temperature from 73*f to 86*f over a 36 hour period roughly. 

Third, I added 2 teaspoons of table salt per gallon which gives a saliity of 3 parts per thousand. I raised the salinity over a two day period.

The transition to these levels ended yesterday morning. We'll see what happens. I'll post the results in a few days to add another data point to the mix.


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

that sounds good. Good luck!


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## Lexus (Jan 19, 2005)

do you normally keep your tank at 73? That seems kinda low.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Its very uncmmon for ich to kill fish. It normally doesn't stay attached to its host long enough. Something else may be the problem. I'm sure the lfs all get their fish from the same one or two suppliers so it could be the problem. What bothers me is ich is cureable by using nothing else but clean water. Healthy fish don't get ich, even when its in the tank. Your tank specs sound fine but I would be looking for another possible disease in the tank(s).


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