# growth rate



## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

So right now i have a 10 gallon tank and am thinking about picking up a cichlid. I know most of you probablly just cringed and covered your little fisshies ears when i said "cichlid in a 10 gallon". However, i would like to upgrade to a larger tank sometime in the future probably a 27 gallon. If i buy the smallest possible cichlid i can won't he be comfortable in a 10 gallion at first. then as he grows it will be aproaching time for me to get a larger tank. 

so what i am wondering is, how fast do most cichlids grow. i mean will they go from under 2 inches long to 6 in 3 months, 6 months, or 9?


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

What do you mean by cichlids? Theres thousands of different types... Did you want to do african cichlids or new world cichlids( cichlids from south , central, and north america).Keep in mind that African Cichlids need very different water paramaters( brackish or just high pH) then New World.


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

ooh yeah. 

it would probably be a tiger oscar which i know my et store has but if i saw a red devil i would probably go for it.


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

Both Oscars and Red devils get very large. Keeping all but they tiniest ones in a ten will result in stunting, and a 27 will not keep them for long at all. I belive for a single adult oscar around 55-75 gallon is around the minimum, and a Red Devil will need even larger.

EDIT: Maybe a pair of convicts would live in a 27 gallon, so try doing some research on those unless you can find the space and money for a large tank


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2007)

Is there anything in the 10g currently? If so, could you list the fish.

If not, then once its cycled, I suggest a pair of dwarf cichlids like Bolivian Rams or Apistogrammas or Curviceps cichlids.

If the largest you'll be able to upgrade to is a 27g, then that limits your choices. Oscars need a 75g minimum. Red Devils need at minimum a 75g by themselves, larger is better though. I would not house either in a 27g tank, not even for a little while. Its best to buy a fish IMO that will be comfortable in your tank, just in case something happens with your plans and you are unable to upgrade.

For a 27g, a pair of Convicts, alone, would be fine. They reproduce like rabbits though and LFS usually don't take the fry, so you'll need to be aware of that. A pair of dwarf cichlids can live comfortably in a 27g with other community type fish. An Angelfish should be fine in a 27g tank with a school of fish, but shouldn't be kept in a 10g.


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

I didn't cringe until here.



> "It would probably be a tiger oscar which i know my et store has but if i saw a red devil i would probably go for it."


As JustOneMore20 has said, Oscars and Red Devils grow far to large for a 10 gallon, even temporarily.

Dwarf cichlids to look at would be Bolivian Rams and Apistos. However, cycling a tank with these fish would not be advised.


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

right now i still just have a goldfish and a Barb that i used to cycle the tank. i only got the because i was sure the goldfish was going t die.

so you would not even keep a red devil in a 10 gallon tank untill they reached 3 or 4 inches long?

I might upgrade to a 55 insted of a 27...but i would have no where to put it...i mean i have the space, but i am lacking anything big enough and strong enough to hold it. Aren't tank stands usually like twice the cost of the tank itself?


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

A 55 would open up your choices, maybe stuff like firemouths( I believe they get like 6 inches max?). I know it may be hard to resist getting a Red Devil, but unless you KNOW you have the ability to obtain a large enough aquarium for them( Which will need to be very large, Red Devils are extremely large fish), you need to resist the urge. I believe if you kept it until it was 3 or 4 inches long in a ten gallon it would be fine, but you would need to move it up to a larger aquarium VERY soon. Instead of a Red Devil, how about a Blood Parrot? Similar looking( its actually a cross breed between a Red Devil and a Severum) And they obtaiin a litttle smaller adult size, so you could get away with MAYBE one in a 55( its pushing it)or comfortably in a 75. Parrots are also a bit more docile and could live with other similar sized fish.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I would not allow an oscar or red devil in the same neighborhood as a 55g tank - never mind the same house.
I don't even want to think about one in a 27g.
<cringe>

In the 27g - I'd look into the "classic" dwarf cichilds (apistos, kribs, laetacaras, rams), the central american neo-dwarfs (convicts, honduran redpoints, rainbow cichlids) or some east african shell dwellers (neolamprologus multifaciatus, etc).
In the the 10g I'd stick with the above mentioned "classic" dwarfs.

In a 55g you've got many options - mid-sized south american or central american cichlids include blue acaras, firemouths, salvini's, etc, or some bigger west africans such as jewel cichlids, or some rift lake fish (lots of lake tangenika options, some malawi although 55g is a little small for malawi fishes)


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

would it die in a tank that is to small?


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Stunting does kill fish, but usually slowly. This process is very painful, and it is why everyone is against putting fish in to small of a tank.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/general-freshwater/2483-our-view-stocking-levels-stunting-fish.html


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

If you wait and look you can find a 55g at a good price. I just got one with stand filters, air pumps, hoods lights, and a 29g with everything for 100$


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

ill work on getting a larger tank.

I actually picked up 2 convict cichlids' they are both about an inch long as of now. Smallest thing in the tank for the time being....tank mates include a 6 1/2 cm long goldfish and a tiger barb. I am not worried about the goldfish at this time, but but i figure i will have to do something with the tiger barb if i don't want him to get eaten.


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## Apotheosis (Jul 2, 2007)

Nobody has addressed this yet, but what do you plan to do with the goldfish and barb? Goldfish are coldwater fish. Barbs and cichlids are tropical fish. They don't mix well at all, and if it is a common or comet goldfish you have, it will need to live in a pond eventually (they get huge). If it is a fancy, it's still going to need a bigger tank. I suppose you could return it to the fish store, but it will probably just get bought to suffer through a cycle in another tank.

When you do upgrade to a larger tank (better be soon, you'd be heading down a nasty road in just a few months otherwise), do a fishless cycle with pure ammonia. That way you don't put fish through unnecessary stress.  The best thing to do would be to wait until you actually do get a larger tank, but it's a bit late to do that now.

No cichlid is really suited to a 10 gal. You would need upwards of a 20 gal. Then you could keep some dwarfs. Or if you want larger cichlids, look into getting a 75 gal or larger tank.

Good luck!


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

yes i understand the pretty drastic temperature ranges that cold water fish and tropical fish like. I actually bought a few feeders to cycle the tank. the person at the pet store told me that i could not have tropical fish until i had a heater to keep the temperature up. Little did she know my sank stays close to 80*.Thats why i went back later and got the tiger barb....i thought that the last goldfish would die. Right now the goldfish is between 6 and 7 CM long. i have every intension of putting him in a pond eventually where he will have a lot more room and be more comfortable as a result of a cooler temperature. Ooh yeah it is a comment feeder.


When i get my next tank i plan on just moving everything over to the new one....

Put all the Rocks out of my old tank
Use the 10 gallons of water then adding the rest
Run the old filter as well as the new filter for a while

I believe and have been told that his will work, it is more or less just a 70% water change on the new tank. I might hit a bit of a mini cycle but that is no huge problem.


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## BloomiNGodsName (Jul 28, 2007)

I don't know much about how big Cichlids or Barbs get...but I do know that a Goldfish can get pretty big I;ve seen em with my own eyes

...but it's sounding to me like that tank's getting a lil over crowded...?

I mean 4 fish in a 10 gallon is pushing it causing the filter to need to run overtime...I'm only saying this cuz we had a 3 inch pleco, a 3inch Chinese Algae Eater and 6 lil 1 inch guppies in a 10 gallon tank and they all died due to high Ammonia in the water...which was caused by the lack of the filter to keep up with the stuff being put into the water by the amount of fish in there...


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## MaelStrom (Jun 24, 2007)

BloomiNGodsName said:


> I don't know much about how big Cichlids or Barbs get...but I do know that a Goldfish can get pretty big I;ve seen em with my own eyes
> 
> ...but it's sounding to me like that tank's getting a lil over crowded...?
> 
> I mean 4 fish in a 10 gallon is pushing it causing the filter to need to run overtime...I'm only saying this cuz we had a 3 inch pleco, a 3inch Chinese Algae Eater and 6 lil 1 inch guppies in a 10 gallon tank and they all died due to high Ammonia in the water...which was caused by the lack of the filter to keep up with the stuff being put into the water by the amount of fish in there...


Sounds more like a bio load shock. A filter wouldnt take care of that. The bacteria growing in your tank take care of the amonia . filters jsut circulate water, detoxify some things with the carbon, and capture large debris. It also provides a place for bacteria to grow, although a large portion of it grows in the gravel and other things in the tank.


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## David-P (Jul 30, 2007)

Goldfish is gone, i took it back to the pet store....it was too large to put in their goldfish tank, so the manager took it home and put it in her tank.


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