# Water Change Question



## Mr Incognito (Feb 24, 2008)

Ok, this is my first tank (55g) ive got going right now. Its been cycling for about 4 weeks, been checking the Ammonia just about every day, and it was stuck at 1.0, so I did some reading, and found out that ive been feeding the goldies im using to cycle too often (I followed the reccomended 2x per day on the bottle). So ive decided to only feed them once every other day (as ive read), and its been one day and already the level went down to .50. So I did a 5 gallon water change thinking it would go down a little more (which it did, went down to .25), but after the water change, my water got super cloudy and one of my goldies died. So I did some reading on here because after thinking about it, ive added water about 2x so far (just so the filter wasnt splashing water so loud), and each time the water gets really cloudy and 1 fish dies. 

So theres 3 things I think it could be...I was hoping you guys could tell me which one is more probable...

1. The bucket im using. Im just using a bucket I got out of my garage. I figured I cleaned it out good enough to use, but honestly its a bucket a friend left in my garage and have no idea what was in it before.

2. When I had originally set the tank up id planned on getting a FW Stingray (which after reading ive decided against), so I bought Proper pH 6.5 (cause they like the lower pH), and I read on here that if you put water in during a water change thats not the same pH, it can cloud the water and kill the fish. Now I added this to my change water, but when I originally dosed the whole tank, I had to dose it about 3x and it still only got down to 6.9 (which I stopped at cause thats when I decided against the ray and didnt want to go lower). Does the change water have to be EXACTLY the same pH as the rest of the tank or just really close?

3. Maybe im not waiting long enough to dump my new water in? I get the water from the tap (make sure the temp is close), poor in the reccomended amount of Aquasafe, Conditioning Salt, and Proper pH, and let its sit for at the most 5 min...is this too soon for all the chemicals to take effect? 

Any advice or help diagnosing this would be muchly appreciated. My Ammonia level should be dropped to 0 either tommorow or tuesday and I would like to go get my first Angelfish or South American Cichlid (havent totally decided on what im doing yet ) and I want to be totally clear before I start stocking!

Thanks again!


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

It could be the bucket or the pH difference is too much.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Go buy a new bucket from wal-mart or home depot and use it only for fish. Wal-mart has pastel colors. Even if the bucket isn't the problem this time, it could kill fish down the line if its used for something else or is mixed up with other buckets. 5 minutes of mixing is fine if you use liquid chemicals. It might not be long enough to dissolve salts and powdered buffers, thus the cloudiness. Put the powders in a small container with hot water and still until dissolved, then add to bucket and fill with water. What 'conditioning salt' are you using? pH shock can easily kill fish. However five gallons in 55 seems like it should be safe, unless you are overdoing the buffer or it is not dissolved. If it isn't dissolved, its like pouring acid on your fish. Changes in salinity can also kill fish, are you careful about the salt concentrations?

Do you have a compelling reason for buffering this tank during the cycle? I usually recommend against "messing with the pH" during cycling. If you tank water is close to the tap's pH, you can safely do huge water changes during an emergency (really high ammonia, for instance). What is the pH of your tap water after sitting for a day? Cloudiness is a common side effect of pH lowering chemicals. They lower the pH by producing a white precipitate. If this isn't acceptable to you, you can still lower the pH by diluting your water with RO water. However, it is so much easier just to pick fish that will thrive in your water as is. Look an Central American cichlids. Fish from Honduras, Mexico, etc. like hard , alkaline water just fine. Convict and Texas cichlids are only a few of many, many fish. 

Try topping off your tank with water to which only dechlor has been added and get a new bucket. 

To answer your question, I think the fish kill is more likely the bucket's doing and the cloudiness is from the buffers and salts. If you ever used it for herbicide it could contain traces of poison. But there is a possibility your dosing is hurting the fish. pH altering is a long-term commitment, a fair amount of effort, and a real risk of causing harm if you mess up. You shouldn't try it without a compelling reason. A water change doesn't have to be exactly the same pH, but the more different the pH is, the more slowly you should add the new water. 

If you are determined to "mess with the pH", get an easy to test such as a pH pen. Test everything, tap water, water in the bucket before and after buffering, water in the tank before and after the water change. Do the same for hardness.

One more thing, temp. changes can shock fish, too.


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## Mr Incognito (Feb 24, 2008)

Honestly the reason I started messing with the pH was because like I said I had originally intended on getting the ray and a friend of mine told me that if their ideal pH is 6.5 then 7.6 (which is what my tap water is) would be way too high...and since theyre so temperamental anyways I figured I would just go ahead and try to lower it. Its just right below 7.0 right now which is good because most fish im interested fit into that range (according to liveaquaria.com). So what would be a sufficient time to stir in my Proper pH in a seperate cup before pouring it into the change water? And how close does it need to be to not give fish a shock? If its at 6.8 or 6.9 and my 6.5 works, would that be too big of a jump? (ill only be chaning probably 5 gallons per week). 

Also in referance to my initial question, I called the friend of mine that left the bucket I was using at my place, and he told me that he picked it up from work (hes a mechanic at toyota) and they get a powder form soap that the porters use to clean the vehicles. And then I got to thinking about it and I had used that stupid bucket to make soap water for hand washing my bike and truck this summer....So basically I feel like a complete moron lol. 

Anyways on a lighter note, when I got home today I checked my water and as I had anticipated, its ready for stocking! Double checked everything from Ammonia to temp and its ready to go! Getting ready to leave to go get a new bucket and some cool fish! (Ill be glad to get rid of these goldies )

Edit: The conditioning salt im using is made by Top Fin. The guy at my local petstore reccomended it to help reduce stress when I first start adding fish to the tank....is that stuff worth it to use or could it be making the water cloudy too?


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2008)

I don't suggest using the pH altering stuff. A pH of 7.6 is just fine. I have kept many fish in that pH, even the ones that prefer lower. Fish adjust to any pH and as long as it is stable, they will thrive. When you are altering the pH and changing it with chemicals, it is easy to mess up one time and kill most of your fish. 

I suggest you start doing small water changes without the pH stuff and get back to your normal tap water, which is perfectly fine.

Messing with the pH is nothing but a risk for disaster IMO, especially with those proper pH chemicals. You will save yourself alot of trouble by just using your tap water with dechlor.

Also, if you buy fish locally, chances are they are in the same pH as your tap, so you'll actually be stressing them by putting them in something drastically lower.

Do your future fish a favor and just use your tap.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Your "conditioning salt" is sodium chloride. The goldfish will appreciate it and it is supposed to reduce nitrite toxicity. Most cichlids are salt tolerant, but you need to considered that the store water most likely has none and acclimate slowly. If you are going to add any salts to your tank, I would rather you use "cichlid salts" which are a blend of Ca, & Mg rather than Na salts. If you intend to keep soft water fish such as angels, you don't need to add anything. How much to add depends on your tap water's hardness and the fish you choose. NaCl in water is good for goldfish, mollies and treating ich. 

If you acclimate your new fish slowly and change only 5 gallons at a time, just condition the new water as you want you tank and it should change gradually enough not to kill your fish. You might add the 5 gallons in 1 or 2 gallon increments over an hour or two. 

Since the proper pH is still in your tank, expect cloudiness with every water change for a while. 

Once you decide on fish, you can determine a target pH and hardness for your tank. Let me reiterate, if you "mess with pH" you must know your hardness. If you don't have enough "buffering capacity" your pH can flucuate. 

JOM is right that most aquarium fish are fairly adaptable to conditions that change slowly.


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