# ***Opinion/Experiences Bettas and other Fish***



## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

As many of you here may know, I have been grappling with whether to add more fish to the 10 gallon, heavily planted (although they are fake lol) tank that currently houses just a Betta and a snail. He does not bother the snail at all, rather it seems he finds it interesting, always wanting to be close to him. I would think he would be okay with other fish as he seems very docile but I know that there is no way of knowing what will happen. I was thinking about 6 white clouds. Any opinions or experience that you think may help me make my decision would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

white clouds are awesome but constantly moving, not sure the betta wouldn't get annoyed


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I'd spring for nonflashy schooling fish


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Hello again emc7 and thank you for again responding - I have thought of the problem of other fish annoying him. He is so happy now, just floats along in the water peacefully and I feel guilty that I want to upset that. I am leaning towards leaving him as is for now. I think I am going to get a different type of snail - I have an apple now. Still hoping for Ghost Shrimp as well. Maybe that will keep me happy! Thank you again for all of your help!

e048 - Thank you for your input - do you have any recommendations for fish that are not flashy and may not annoy him? Thank you very much!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

please keep in mind that bettas are warm water fish and white clouds are cold water fish..
maybe a little school of flame tetras would work better.


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Hello again lohachata - Hope that you are doing well. I have considered tetras but the Neon Tetra Disease scares me a little from them. And, again, I know they are very busy and I thought they might annoy the Betta, as emc7 said. Is there a couple of larger fish that don't need a full school, like those big tetras? Do they fall prey to the disease as well? Maybe 2 or 3 floaty, slow fish might work, although I don't know of any.

I am taking all the experiences posted here and then will make a decision.

Thank you again, as always, for your help!


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Only neon tetras are affected by the neon tetras disease.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Not true, Wizard. Pleistophora hits some other small tetras, too. We just don't tend to notice. Lady Samsara, it's not common enough even in Neons to really have to worry about it. Look at the Neons in the dealer's tank. If any of them have cloudy white flesh in their tails or bright yellow spots, stay away from that tank. Otherwise, they should be fine. 
Of course, you should always quarantine new fish anyway.

Vietnamese White Clouds, Tanichthys micagemmae, are tropical and might get along with Bettas. Maybe. I'm not sure how fin-nippy they might be compared to regular White Clouds.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Thank you TOS, I did not know that.


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Hello and thank you evil wizard for your help - it is very much appreciated!

Hello again TheOldSalt and I appreciate your assistance once again. Can you think of any medium sized solitary, mellow fish that might get along with him? I think I have ruled out the schooling fish. He is so happy and peaceful right now, I'd really hate to stress him out.

Thanks again to both of you - your help is always appreciated!


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

A pearl gourami would work. They're very peaceful. I have a Betta in with mine. They're anabatoids like Bettas. Get a male. The colors are very intense on the males.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

A pearl gourami may work in a bigger tank but not a 10 gallon. I know that honey gouramis are very peaceful. Could a honey gourami work?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

not so sure about that wiz...i kept and bred a pair of pearls in a 10.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have a small breeding group of the Vietnamese whit clouds..they are a beautiful and peaceful little fish...


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Pearl gouramis get to about 4 inches right? That is to big of a fish to be kept in a 10 gallon IMO.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

Not IMO. One with a Betta would be just fine. If fact, although I breed my pair in a 20 I don't think that a 10 would be too small. It might actually be better because you take the female out soon after she spawns and the smaller space would make it easier for the male to care for the fry that are VERY VERY tiny.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

This site says minimum size is 35 gallons http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/anabantoids/pearlgour.php This site says 20 gallons http://aquariumtidings.com/pearl-gourami/ This one says 29 gallons http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile30.html This one says 30 gallons for a single specimen http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f29/pearl-gourami-188221.html . I do agree with breeding them in a 10 I guess. But I don't think they should be put in a 10 gallon to live in.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

I have to disagree with them. I even went down to the fish room and looked at the size of my 10 gallon tanks and the size of my adult Gourami's just to make sure I wasn't off my rocker. Sites often recommend just one adult Angel per 10 gallons which is totally wrong. 
I have a 120 with 27 adults in it. I just removed 5 last week and took them to the shop because it was looking a little crowded in there, but they were doing fine. God only knows how many Half Dollar size juvies I have in a 100 gallon. Too many for me to count, for sure. Don't believe everything you read. These sites are often aimed toward people who will throw the fish in and do no maintenance other that topping off the water that has evaporated. Look at this site http://www.wikihow.com/Care-for-a-Pearl-Gourami. It says that a Pearl Gourami won't do well with a Betta because the Betta might eat it. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, wiz.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Wikihow is total crap for true info. Anybody can come and change the info. Find me 1 example of where a pearl gourami was suggested for a 10 gallon tank. And it can not be from mugs or this thread.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

I will do it just to prove to you that it will work, Wiz.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have maintained and bred pearl gouramis in 10 gallon tanks for years..the male from my breeding pair was a full 5" long..
i have more than 40 years of experience of keeping fish.not just a few fish and not just a few tanks..
i figure that should make me at least a little bit qualified....


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Yes it does loha....


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

Wiz. Does that mean that I don't have to set up a tank when I have no space for one and then waste that tank space just to prove a point? I hope so.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

I never said you had to do it. I said to give me 1 example where a pearl gourami was suggested for a 10 gallon tank.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

Loha gave you that example. I'm off the hook.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have bred and raised about 10,000 pearl gouramis.parents were kept in a 10 gallon tank..when old enough the fry were moved to larger tanks...
so i say that pearl gouramis can be kept in a 10 gallon tank..

does that work for you wiz ?

or doesn't my advice count because i am a mug on this thread.

i have also bred and raised well over 500,000 angelfish..does that qualify me to give advice about angels ? or should we go to the fishy fishy forum for any info ?


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## bullseyejoey (Aug 30, 2012)

I have to agree that I'm positive you can keep pearls in small spaces.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm done trying to talk.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

big b said:


> I'm done trying to talk.


Don't worry about it, Brian. Feel lucky. If this forum were active everyone would have agreed with you at first and later everyone would have agreed with *THE VOICE OF EXPERIENCE*. You got yourself caught in a tight spot and there was no way out. It happens. It's no big deal.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

.............


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Hi again Liz and thank you for the idea of a Gourami...For some reason I thought that you could NOT keep Gouramis with Bettas.

Are they the only 2 in the tank? If so, what size tank do you have them in? If in a community tank, they do not bother each other? There are lots of ornaments and plants for them to hide or run away to. I looked at both the Pearl and Honey Gourami and they are both so pretty - no long, flowing fins for biting. I only read briefly, I need to go back and read more but it does say that they are peaceful, so this may work! Thank you again for the idea - I think I may have my answer!

lohachata - I google imaged the Vietnamese White Clouds and they are so beautiful! Unfortunately, I think I have decided against a school of fish but I sure do appreciate you telling me about them. I can only imagine what they must look like in a school swimming around! Just gorgeous!

Hi big b, as always, thank you for your help!


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

LadySamsara said:


> Hi again Liz and thank you for the idea of a Gourami...For some reason I thought that you could NOT keep Gouramis with Bettas.
> 
> Are they the only 2 in the tank? If so, what size tank do you have them in? If in a community tank, they do not bother each other? There are lots of ornaments and plants for them to hide or run away to. I looked at both the Pearl and Honey Gourami and they are both so pretty - no long, flowing fins for biting. I only read briefly, I need to go back and read more but it does say that they are peaceful, so this may work! Thank you again for the idea - I think I may have my answer!
> 
> ...


I don't have a Betta and an adult Pearl together alone in a 10. If I had, it would be the only two fish plus a Mystery snail and perhaps a Bristle nose.

I don't want my pair to breed right now as I'm overrun with Pearl fry. My adults are in a 120 community with Discus, German Blue Rams, Rosy Barbs, and quite a few Bristlenose.

My Pearl fry have been split between a 20 and a 60. They are way overstocked, but I change a ton of water every day, so it's OK. I wish you lived close. I would give you an adult male. It would cost more than the fish was worth to ship him.

If I were to keep a Beta and a Pearl I would plant the tank lightly and toss in something like a water lettuce. The Pearl for sure will pick off the Water lettuce roots. Pearls love very small stuff. They like their veggies, too. My juvies go nutso for algae pellets. I'm not up on Betta's but I don't think that a set up like that would offend one.

Someone who knows Bettas may give you a different perspective on it.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

LadySamsara said:


> Hi again Liz and thank you for the idea of a Gourami...For some reason I thought that you could NOT keep Gouramis with Bettas


You can't because they are of the same type of fish. They are antaboids. But apparently a pearl gourami would work.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

big b said:


> You can't because they are of the same type of fish. They are antaboids. But apparently a pearl gourami would work.


Go back to being silent, wiz.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

It's not antaboids, it's anabantoids.
Moving on...
Just let it go, everyone.
Conventional wisdom says that bettas and gouramis don't mix well, and that Pearls and Snakeskins get too big for a 10, but we all know that conventional wisdom isn't always right all the time. Heck, just today I learned that Bettas live longer than conventional wisdom says.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

come on big b ; you can't quit yet..i told you that every now and then i would give you a hard time..lol
one of the things i have always done is get some young of a new species and raise them to learn about them..then i would breed them (if i could) and then move on to another new species..you get to learn a lot that way..


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The problem with non-species tanks is that compatibility is so changeable. Not only is it unlikely anyone has tried the specific combo you're thinking of, but fish are individuals with differing personality. And what works for young fish doesn't always work for full-grown mature adults. I tend to recommend online as if you are only going to have one tank ever, so everything has to get along and not outgrow the tank. Because so many people who plan to buy a bigger tank never get around to it. But thats not how I or loha keep fish. We have many fish, many tanks, so we try, we watch and if it isn't working, we move fish. 

The solution to your issue is a row of 6 tanks or a LFS that will let you swap fish out or a local fish club where you can swap fish.

My pearl gouramis were in a 55 with angels and got picked on, so they are peaceful, but they did get to be 5 inches long.


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Hi everyone and I want you all to know I appreciate everyone's help. I think emc7 said it best - "The problem with non-species tanks is that compatibility is so changeable. Not only is it unlikely anyone has tried the specific combo you're thinking of, but fish are individuals with differing personality. And what works for young fish doesn't always work for full-grown mature adults"

Part of this is my fault. I had done extensive reading and rasboras, white clouds and panda cories always came up as good tank mates. Cowboy is so happy now I have decided I don't want to take the risk of adding a school that might annoy him. That left a singular fish - I have done some research and the consensus is that you should not put bettas and Gouramis together...again, every fish is different. As much as I enjoy watching the Betta, the snail is not as active and entertaining as previous ones I've had (I know it, here I am criticizing a snail now lol) and the tank just seems empty with this one, little Betta in it. 

The cories seem boring and also like you wouldn't see them....Can anyone give me some feedback on them? Are they generally safe with a Betta, he's hardly ever by the bottom of the tank. Are they entertaining? Can you see them? How many should I get, if I remember correctly, they are schooling fish.

And Liz - 120 gallon - WOW! I'd love to see that! And thank you for the offer of the Gourami 

Thank you all again!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i think that a small group of Aspidoras Albater or A. Spilotus (they are almost identical) would do nicely with your betta..they are a relative of the Corydoras but smaller and more slender.we have about 20 or so in a 20 long.they are pretty active and very peaceful..they are very reasonably priced and not too hard to find..you should be able to find some on www.aquabid.com .... they are not always available bu just keep your eyes open for them.....


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Thank you lohachata - I will look them up.

You mention aquabid - do they come through the mail? If so, has anyone had good luck with them? Maybe it's me but I would worry about getting fish through the mail, wouldn't they be all stressed out? I know they go to the LFS like that but I always wait a few days after their delivery to look.

Oh - Found this as I was looking around - Just as we all have been saying, all fish are different!

Absolutely adorable ...that little sneak!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnPchgyQ3w


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

lohachata, are the Aspidoras like the cories? I cannot find much reading material on them. Are they comical - I have read that cories are. And can you briefly explain how Aquabid works? I see that it looks like an auction - I would have no idea what to bid???

Thank you!!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The dwarf cories are very active and very cute. They aren't cory-shaped, but they do have whiskers. Some of the good lfs around here get them sporadically. Aquabid is very like e-bay you can bid or sometimes buy-it-now. Pick a seller with excellent feedback and a close location and factor the cost of shipping into your bid. If you don't see a lot of the size you want (they only have singles or dozens and you want 6), send the seller a PM and see if you can work something out. Many fish are mailed, but other methods are used check with the seller.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have been buying and selling on aquabid for many years...in fact i just got a box of red eyed rainbow emperor tetras today..6 adults and about 8 juvies...in fact ; the majority of fish in our 60+ tanks have come through the mail..got a box of beautiful pearl gouramis from Ms. Liz yesterday..
aquabid works 2 ways..just like any auction , you bid on something you want..but there is often the "buy it now" option..that is how my food auctions are set up..about 60% of my fish food sales are from aquabid..the other 40% is from facebook groups..
always check a a sellers feedback before bidding or buying...on aquabid my feedback is 830/831..830 positive and 1 neutral..but if you read the comment from the neutral it is a pretty positive comment..most likely just clicked the wrong button....
if you need any assistance with aquabid , i am sure there are a number of folks here that can help you out...

google Aspidoras Albater , A. Spilotus , A. Pauciradiatus.....or just Aspidoras in general..they look just like cories but are smaller and more slender.a peaceful fish that is pretty active.stays under 1 1/2"...and they love feeding time...lol
and yes ; they are every bit as entertaining as other cories..


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

lohachata said:


> come on big b ; you can't quit yet..i told you that every now and then i would give you a hard time..lol


I didn't quit. I just knew that if I kept on talking to liz that I would say something bad which could get me banned.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

What ever will I do? Once again I'm the bad guy. Oh well, I'm used to it...


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

hey ; wait a minute ; being the nasty bad guy is my job..lol
you are just fine Ms. Liz..
wiz ; i can't think of anything that liz said that was bad....


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Meh, she just made me a bit mad. I have let it go and decided to let it be the past and let bygones be bygones. And that stuff.


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## LizStreithorst (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm not your enemy, B. Actually, I rather like you


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Aww thanks .


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Thank you again everyone - dwarf cories it is! My LFS can get them in next Weds. but I do have 2 questions and hopefully I'll be out of everyone's hair -

My quarantine tank does not have a filter (airstone) or heat - is that going to be a problem for these little guys? I can definitely keep up with the water changes for the 2 weeks and also keep the room on the warmer side.

I am going to get another small snail and some Ghost Shrimp (going to hope for the best on them) - How many dwarf cories should I order?

Thank you again everyone - this is a great forum - good people here!


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

I'd spring for X-ray or glowlight tetras maybe some blind tetras


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

about 6 dwarf cories would be great...you will love them.


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## LadySamsara (Aug 29, 2015)

Thank you lohachata - 6 it is!

Thanks again for everything!


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## Drakmanka (Oct 27, 2015)

Personally, I've always preferred keeping bottom-feeders with my bettas. They're out of the way and don't compete with the betta, but still add a little extra activity to the tank.
When I first started keeping Corydoras, my then betta fish went through an "Identity crisis" where for a while she tried to act like the catfish! Eventually she settled back down, but it was certainly interesting to watch.


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

e048 said:


> I'd spring for X-ray or glowlight tetras maybe some blind tetras


I would not recommend Blind Cave Tetras due to adult size and have been known to be fin nippy.


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