# Fish Fight! Advice please!



## PheonixSaint (Jun 9, 2009)

So I have a percula clownfish and had a yellow tailed Damsel, then about a week later added in a maroon clown, which died in a day.. being that the damsel was so territorial i figured it was him that killed it:chair:, so i took him back.. well anyways today i bought a sabae clown, being told it was more peaceful and should get along with the percula.. right off the bat their nipping at each other.. should i let them go for a bit and see if they warm up, or do i save him now and take him out? What fish would get along well in the tank with these clowns?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Not other clowns. That's where you keep going wrong. Clownfish are cute and swim funny, but they're still basically saltwater cichlids and territorial. If your tank isn't very large, they can't stay out of each other's way. Oh, sure, you sometimes see a tank slam full of clowns that are getting along, but that's because they're too crowded and have given up trying to establish any turf. This is NOT a viable solution, so don't even think about it.

Lots of fish can do fine, but stay away from all damsels.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

The other reason clowns in LFS do fine together is that they're still all nueter (neither male nor female) at that age you see them in stores.

A single clown of any species will become a female, and will fight with any other female.
How big is this tank ?
How long has it been established ?


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## PheonixSaint (Jun 9, 2009)

Thank you,
Thats the first I'd heard of them being territorial, these two don't seem to be, but the Damsel i had was obviously, and I'm not planning on getting anymore clowns or damsels, but what fish would be better with them? How about a flame angel when the tanks more established?

Yeah they're both on the bigger side so It could be the whole female/female fight going on, but they seem to have accepted each other now. The Tank is only a 24gal, which it seems now is actually pretty small, and its only been going for two weeks, I'm gonna get one or 2 more fish and some coral in about 2 more weeks.. whats a good starter?


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

I can't think of any angels that will be ok for this tank. Cherub angels, maybe, but they eat coral, so no. Flames? No way. They're hard enough for a beginner to keep in a big tank.

Stay away from all mandarins, scooters, and dragonets of every sort. Petshops love to sell those to newbies like you because they think they don't know better.

Gobies & blennies are good. SMALL wrasses are ok. Cardinals are fine if you can feed them. 
Boxfish, puffers, tangs, eels, groupers, lionfish... these are not ok in such a small tank.

This could take awhile, with hundreds of possibilities available. Maybe you could tell us some of the things you find interesting?


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## PheonixSaint (Jun 9, 2009)

well first off you were right, the percula clown lost this fight.. kinda wish it had been the other one, oh well i guess bound to lose some starting out..

So let me describe the tank better, its a 24ga nano-cube, with live rock and now just the one sebae clown, also one turbo snail and a sand star, both of those are doing fine.. I'm adding in about two more pieces of live rock today because well i really don't have much, but in a few weeks i plan to put in live coral. so i only want maybe 3 or fish max.. 

So besides clowns, and damsels and angels and box fish and puffers and eels and lion fish and groupers.. heh is there any fish left to get that will go good?
what about the six line wrassel? I'm gonna try to have a nice looking reef, with just 2 or 3 fish, so i would need reef friendly fish.. and what would be a good coral for this small a tank? water temp ranges from 75.5-79.3 when the light is on, thats good for coral ya? Thank you so much for your help by the way


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

IMO, the key is to slow down.
I wouldn't add any more fish right now - actually, personally I wouldn't want more than 2 fish (ever) in such a small tank, especially with one being a clarkii (sebae) clown - they get big and territorial ("aggressive") and the other being a damsel.

Personally - a tank that small I would have added just the liverock for about a month or two, then maybe one fish for 2-3 months, then maybe a second fish. 
(Nothing good ever happens quickly in a fish tank)

I'd re-evaluate your current LFS -- I know none of the salt guys at my store would sell anybody that many fish for a newly setup 24g nano-tank, and none would sell two disparate clowns to anybody, period. Its time to find a store that is willing to tell you no if it means your fish do better, even if it means they don't make a sale.
You also may want to buy a book or books - they can help you determine a) which fish you like and b) which fish will work in your setup.
If you didn't have the damsel, I would consider a royal gramma. 
If you didn't have either the damsel or the clown, I'd consider cardinal(s), small gobies, small blennies, or a single dottyback. There are a large number of fishes that can work in nano-tanks - Scott Michaels books (Reef Fishes or Marine Aquarium Fishes) are good "pocket" guides that you can bring to the store with you when shopping.

As to corals - that depends alot on your lighting and water flow, and somewhat on your filtration (protein skimmer, etc). 
If you've got typical power compact lighting and not alot of flow (and a skimmer or carbon filtration) I'd go with some soft corals - _xenia_, "yellow polyps", green star polyps, zoanthids, and the various "tree" corals (_sinularia_, _nephthia_, etc). _Sarcophyton _(toadstool) leathers would work as well, but if they do well they will get big and take alot of your real-estate in such a small tank. 
Since most of these exude alot of chemicals to keep from getting eaten or overgrown, I like to keep them in tanks with skimmers or change the carbon in the filter frequently.
Mushroom corals would also work great.

With brighter lighting (some of the nano tanks have metal halide lights) and lots of chaotic flow, you could keep some sps corals - encrusting montipora (ie _Montipora capricornis)_ would be a good first choice, as would _Pocillipora. 

_Again, since I don't know your setup details or your long term plans for this tank, I can only make vague generalities - but its hard to go wrong with a zoanthid colony and some mushrooms. Xenia is feast-or-famine --- for some folks its an undying pest like aquatic dandelions, for others its impossible to keep happy and melts when you sneeze - its always worth a shot since its so cool. Green star polyps (GSP) are another good easy coral if you've got at least power compact lighting.

But I think the first thing I would do is find another LFS - I wouldn't trust the livestock at any store thats willing to sell me what they sold you.


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## PheonixSaint (Jun 9, 2009)

Yeah I already decided I had been moving a bit too fast after all your first replies, Thanks for all the advice, its actually helping way more then the ppl at my store.. I spend half my time trying to figure out what they are saying, that sux tho cause they're a really clean store and have a lot of selection, know of any good stores in So Cal? 

A little more about the tank, i got rid of the damsel so its just the one eyed sebae clown, then a snail and a star, all those seem to be fine, I'm going to do the first water change today.., so with out the damels and in a few months you think a royal gramma.. i'm going to search up all those, and check out all those coral, I'll try to get some pics of my set up on here also, cause honestly your guys' advice has been really helpful, maybe that will help you help me more. I'll check out some books too.

Oh and I plan to keep this tank for good, but once I move into my house, I'm going to get more, and bigger tanks, by then i should know more about what I'm doing tho of course. 

Oh hey also, I got home today and found a slug of some sort in my new rocks, it shot out a white something as I cleaned the tank as its defense.. would this be a shelless turbo, or something else?

Again I'm going to look up all those corals/fish today to just check them out, but I'm not gonna rush anything anymore, itll be a while before I add anytihng more to the tank, thanks again


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## PheonixSaint (Jun 9, 2009)

K so the clown died.. same looks and everything as the others, so that kinda puts me back at square one, save for the star and snail..

I noticed I'm starting to have a lot of brown mushroom coral sprout up and actually grow.. that should mean my tank is at least stablizing yeah?

It will be a month or so before I even Think about buying a new pair of fish, but one question i have is would a pair of percula clowns be alright if they're bought together? or should i just stay away from them till i get a larger tank?

Also I'm having trouble finding a better store then the one i had been going to, but I found a 20,000 sq ft ware house in inglewood that looks really well kept, anyone else from OC have a store to recommend? one thats not just out for a sell..


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## temptresskitty (Aug 8, 2009)

PheonixSaint said:


> Oh hey also, I got home today and found a slug of some sort in my new rocks, it shot out a white something as I cleaned the tank as its defense.. would this be a shelless turbo, or something else?


The slug could actually be a sea slug. Probably formed from a egg that came on your live rock. I have heard of snails doing such a thing, so who knows. 

Now, if it is a slug, you will most likely want to get rid of it. The defensive cloud of white that you saw, if it is like the purple cloud of stuff that I have read about from sea slugs, it is its way of telling others to back off, it is poisonous. It could eat either plant life, or other fish/carnivorous. 

Now that I read more too, your starfish may eat it, a crab will, and so will anemones. 



Amber


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## PheonixSaint (Jun 9, 2009)

Hey Thanks! It turns out tho that there is actually three of them, and they're growing, but now that they are bigger i can see the shells forming, they're all little turbo snails, so i kinda got a few for free, i'll let them get big then take them back to the store, i don't think i need four in such a small tank.

Got any advice on ways to help my corals grow?


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

I would be careful, snails multiply like they have nothing better to do. If you wait until you have adults, you could have hundreds of them.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Not in saltwater they don't.


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## jrm402 (Jan 21, 2010)

keep only clownfish of the same type with each other


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