# Lots of Beginners Questions



## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

My questions are: I was never told at my petstore (petland) about "cycling", all they told me was let the tank filter without fish for a day before you add fish which I did. How would I go about cycling now or would it be easier to buy a product that will do it for me?
Also, I don't have a heater (I live in Orlando FL) and my tank is pretty much at 72-74 degrees all day, is that going to be an ideal temperature? 
And one last thing, is there any site on the internet where I can look up exotic fish stores in my area because the Petland I go to does not have that much of a selection, I googled but was unsuccessful.
Thanks :mrgreen:


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## Chazwick (Aug 24, 2005)

If your fish die soon, don't be suprised, because you have made nearly every newbie mistake.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

thanks for the advice


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## AshleytheGreat (Jul 24, 2005)

Yes you def need to cycle that tank. I dont know if you want to take ur fish back but I THINK you can add biospira to a tank with fishys in it to cycle it? But im not sure....the experts will help u out


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## euRasian32 (May 19, 2005)

The right thing to do would be to reduce your current stocking down by 70%. 2-3 hardy fish is ideal for cycling a tank naturally. Get a test kit (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph) and monitor your ammonia levels. Do a 10% water change daily or minimum every other day, when your test kit starts to read ammonia at toxic levels. When your ammonia levels drop - your nitrites will kick in, monitor this level daily or every other and continue to do daily or minimum every other day water changes. When your nitrite levels drop - your nitrates will kick in, and cycling is complete. Water changes can be bumped up to 25 - 50% (at the most) and should be done once a week to keep the nitrate levels down. Be careful not to overfeed - feed once a day, every other day, and only an amount of food that can be consumed by your fish in 2-3 minutes. Scoop out any uneaten food during cycling. Do not ever completely clean your filter media when maintaining, you don't want to rinse away all that good bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrate, and the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates. During cycling, don't service your filter until it clogs to the point of restriction of flow.

When choosing temp range, stick with it. If you decide to go warmer or cooler, do it gradually, i:e; changing a degree per hour. Warmer temps have less oxygen in the water, so 75ish is cool.

There is a product that is called Bio-Spora. It's a quick fix, but your tank won't be as stable as a tank that is cycled naturally. It should be added a day or so before fish are introduced, so I don't know if it will be a cure-all in your situation.

C


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Ok nice job Chazwick for putting in a totally useless and rude reply. If you can't do any better than that, maybe you shouldn't post anything!

TomCool: Biospira would work if you can find it. There is another product that works, but I can't think of the name of it now. I think it is called stability or something like that. Cycle is worthless (just a warning in case you were considering getting it). I personally would put the temp at 78. I live in Florida too and I have a heater, because it helps keep the temperature more even if you get a good one. My fish seem more active since I got the temperature up too. Like euRasian32 said, though, warmer water holds less oxygen. I put an airstone in my tank to help the fact that the temperature is 78 and my fish are healthy. Also, like he said, once you decide on a temperature, keep it at that. Too many fluctuations are bad for your fish.

A good site to get fish, IMO, is this: http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=216&ref=3319&subref=BC . I am not sure what kind of fish you are looking for, but they have a pretty good selection. I have heard they are good. Just a reminder, you need to wait until your tank is cycled before you buy more fish. 

Once you get your tank cycled, if you still plan on keeping the fish you have, you should get more of the tetras and cories so you have them in schools. 4 is a pretty good school.

Do you have any plants in your tank? Live plants would make cycling easier on the fish by helping reduce toxic levels. Toxic levels of ammonia is, as far as I know, 1 ppm. But I'm sure someone with more knowledge can tell you about that.

Good luck!


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

Thanks for the advice...I'm kind of upset I was not told all of this at the petstore, guess they are trying to make quick bucks....Is there any alternative to getting rid of some fish because I really have no where to put them.


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

I hate to say this but most petstores will not tell you anything about fish. Some people don't just because of ignorance, and some don't just because they want the money. I personally think you could cycle with the fish you have, but that is just my opinion. Before I knew anything about fish I cycled with a lot more sensitive fish than that, and I didn't do water changes (like I said I didn't know ANYTHING about fish) and they survived. Beginners luck I guess. It would be better, though, if you could return most of the fish to the petstore until you get done cycling and explain why you need to. If there isn't any way to do that (and I know petland doesn't like taking fish back) then I think you could cycle it with them in there. I don't know about the crabs, though. You might have to get rid of them.


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## Chazwick (Aug 24, 2005)

Thanks Lydia, i do try my best. 
And as for the threadmaker... if you're given a fish tank for FISH, you look up the animal, not just buy a tonne and add them to a tank, that's not how it works, sure we can help him, but chances are he should've came here first, so i think my sarci comment.. though it was more factual was pretty darn convinient for this particular situation.


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## Imbrium (Feb 7, 2005)

I think most people expect that the people who sell fish, will tell you what you need to know about them. He didn't intentionally go and do the wrong thing, and now that he knows better he's trying to fix it. Being sarcastic isn't going to help. I'm sure most people here knew next to nothing about fish when they first started. You don't need to be a jerk about it. At least he's trying.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

"Stability" by Seachem is a lot easier to find, and cheaper, than BioSpira, and it works almost as well. Well, not really, but close enough, and certainly MUCH, MUCH better than anything else like Cycle or Fritzzyme or whatever.


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## DavidDoyle (Jan 18, 2005)

The corys especially don't do well with ammonia or nitrites and they should go back if possible. Tetras are not hardy enough to withstand a cycle normally either. The danios should be fine. I am not sure on the clawed guys and cycling but do know they dine on fish.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

Thanks a lot for all of the helpful input. I think I'm going to call around and see if I can get my hands on the Stability or Biospira products. If I can't I'll try cycle my tank. Please can you guys let me know what else I'm going to need for my tank because I obviously (due to petland) missed a lot of vital details.
I have a 20 gallon tank, Full hood with flourescent light, Cascade 150 filter, Aqua Plus tap water conditioner and Nutrafin Max Complete Pellet Food.
Also I know this will sound ignorant but how often should I feed the fish? The guy at the petstore told me once a day, the back of the food says 2-3.
Thanks a lot for helping me get my fishtank on the right track.


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

You should feed the fish once a day. It is up to you whether or not you get a heater. You have had the facts presented to you so I'm sure you can choose about that. It is also up to you whether or not you get an air pump. I would recommend that you get one, but I don't think it is essential.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

I'm thinking about a 75 watt Visi-Therm, anyone have anything good/bad to say about them? 
Also, what exactly does an airpump do? just add extra oxygen to the tank?


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## fishfreaks (Jan 19, 2005)

thanks lydia, you said everything i wanted to say :-D An airstone is not neceddary. the warmer the water is the less oxygen it holds. if you like the looks of it then that is absolutly fine :-D 

Oh and Chazwick, people DO make mistakes, and most fish stores are just trying to make money instead of caring about the health of the fish. if you want to post such a rude comment, dont say anthing at all unless your going to give them some info on how to fix things


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

I found Stability at Petsmart and started using it last night so hopefully it will work out.


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## AshleytheGreat (Jul 24, 2005)

yay! good luck. 

Surprised that Petsmart sold some, mine always said "Its to expensive for something that never works."
^^ First clue to not trust any information on fish they give out.


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## fishn00b (Jun 10, 2005)

Lol, my Petsmart told me that it was ok to put an adult Angelfish in with Neon Tetras. Anytime they try and tell me advice, I let it go in one ear and out the other because it might actually make me less knowledgable.


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

The fish you have sound like they might be able to take the cycling. The cories might have problems, but that stabalizer (sp) you bought should help a lot. Be sure you buy a water testing kit sometime in the near future. At bare minimum you will want one that tests PH, Nitrates, and Ammonia. This will allow you to track if your water is polluted with waste, or not. Also, be sure you have a gravel vac (works for sand too) to suck out muck from the bottom of the tank because waste is hard on the fish and water chemicals. In the beginning, with a test kit you're going to notice the Nitrates and Ammonia going crazy. You can offset it some with 10% water changes every 3 days or so. Once the bacteria that "cycles" ammonia out of the tank begins to grow, you'll notice that the chemicals will start to stabilize. Good luck, and let us know how it goes 

If you do lose a fish, don't feel too badly. It's the pet store's fault for not telling you all the details. i'd blame them, not you.


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## Z Man (Jan 18, 2005)

These days I know there are completely different ways to start up a new tank. BUT when I started my first tank well over 40 years ago I was given the same advice that Tom Cool was given. Just to let you know, I didn't loose any of my fish. Don't be so harsh on a guy who is trying to do things right after he was given old advice. I'm not saying not to cycle a new tank. What I am saying is things change every day and I am much more careful than I was a long time ago.


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## mlefev (Apr 19, 2005)

I don't think anyone, except possibly one member, was being hard on him. We were mainly giving him options available to ensure that his fish thrived. I don't think there was much of a problem with his startup, except that the cories could possibly kick the bucket because they're sensitive to ammonia. He seemed to, in general, appreciate the advice, so I would say no harm done. If he was upset, he could very well have voiced it, but he replied in a way that seemed appreciative, so again, I think no harm was done.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

Once again thanks for all the help. I bought one of the gravel vacuum cleaners when I got the tank although im not really sure how to use it yet lol. 
How do you guys go about adding/removing water from the tank?


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## fishn00b (Jun 10, 2005)

Use the gravel vacuum you bought. Stick in in the tank and then push it up and down to create a siphon and have the end of it in a bucket below your tank. The water will come out of the tank through this hose. When you use the vacuum make sure you get underneath your gravel as well... I didn't do this the first time and when I finally did i was amazed at how much came out. Then after some time with that your water should have dropped significantly depending on the size of your bucket and other factors. Then you can fill up that bucket you just used with water after dumping and rinsing it out and then just use the water conditioner and pour it back in (make sure it is the same temperature first). This is the way I always do it, but others might do it some other way.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

Yea i definitely plan on upping my fish population once i get through my week cycle of stability and test the water. Thanks guys.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm a little late but I am glad everything is working out for you. And don't take certain members replies to heart. Some people just have no tact. Keep up posted about your tank and feel free to ask ANY questions. Everyone makes mistakes now and then. We've all been there.


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## bananas (Sep 10, 2005)

Is distilled water required? I've been using faucet water and some stuff that you put in it so the chlorine doesnt hurt the fish.


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## Hamm35924 (Jun 13, 2005)

i just have water jugs that i fill with tap water and put in some stuff to get rid of all that bad junk in the water and add it in whenever i need to.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Distilled water isn't necessary in 90% of fishtanks. There are reasons to use it though.........
1. Well water has too much heavy metals and other nasties.
2. Breeding specific fish
3. A few aquatic plants need soft water to thrive but most dont.


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## fishn00b (Jun 10, 2005)

I would have thought you needed to treat the distilled water. Or is the one you buy already chlorine free and such.


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## bananas (Sep 10, 2005)

distilled water is supposed to be very close to pure H2O


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

TomCool: You should probably do about 30-40% water changes when you do them.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

K thanks Lydia, how often should I change the water? I've been doing it every other day so far and taking out about 20% but I'll start taking out 30.


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## Pac-Man (Mar 18, 2005)

TomCool said:


> I'm thinking about a 75 watt Visi-Therm, anyone have anything good/bad to say about them?


I like visitherm, I have some in my tanks. They're reliable in my experience and aren't too pricy.


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## fishboy (Feb 26, 2005)

distilled water doesn't have alot of the minearls that help fish. just use spting water it's like $2.50 for a 2.5 gallon jug a supermarkets. It's a good idea to test it though i bought like poland spring or something and when the water got low i put i 1 or 2 bottles till i fould out it has a acidic ph. Also i have heard from a japanese fishkeeper of enhancing your water's vitamin and mineral value by adding a liquid reptile vitamin suppliment. He did it when his fish got ich and they healed so he contiued to add it and the fish never got sick agian


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

You probably don't need to do water changes more than once a week unless your nitrites, nitrates, or ammonia are high.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

well guys, I finished with my week stability treatment a few days ago and everything seems good. I've had my fish for 2 weeks now and none have died. 
Right now I only have 5 danios, 5 neons and 2 spotted cories in my 20 gallon tank, any idead any other cool fish i could add?


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Gouramis are cool, so are kuhli loaches. I am not sure how good the loaches would be for a beginner, though. What other kind of fish do you want? A "centerpiece" fish? Another school? Algea eaters? Once you tell us that we can help you pick out more fish.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

I kind of want one or two really cool fish to stand out in the tank


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

What is your pH at anyways? I gotta make sure the fish will be alright in your tank conditions. Proabably, if your pH is right for tetras, a dwarf gourami would be ok in there. Those are pretty neat. Also, maybe 4 neon dwarf rainbowfishes. Does anyone else think rainbowfishes would be alright in there? There are a lot of other cool fish but I don't have time to look them up right now and they might be hard for you to find locally anyways.


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

My PH is right around 7


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Do you like neon dwarf rainbowfish? I can suggest fish, I'm just trying to figure out what kind you like. You don't like gouramis, right?


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

Don't really like gouramis, I don't know what the rainbowfish look like but basically I want something thats very colorful :fish:


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## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

Here's a few links for the neon dwarf rainbowfish. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_praecox.php 
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/praecoxrainbow.xml
http://www.timstropicals.com/Inventory/Rainbows/DwarfNeonRainbowInfo.asp
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1059
If you don't like those I'll think of other fish but I don't have time right now. Tell me what you think about those though


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## TomCool (Sep 9, 2005)

Thanks Lydia those fish look great, I'm gonna check at my LFS to see if they have any.


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## AshleytheGreat (Jul 24, 2005)

Rainbows are so pretty. I like them a lot and I gourmies anyday. Its something about gourmies where those little arms grab on to things and stuff. At my LFS rainbows r expensive  Good luuck!! ^_^


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## fishiefish (Sep 12, 2005)

I am only a few months more experienced than TomCool, and started in a similar boat, though not as many fish. Sadly my crabs did not live through the cycle even after they had molted and grown and seemed fine for three weeks! Once I figured out what needed to happen for cycling, I did get a few cheap live plants, and I think that helped my mollies tough it out.

(sorry this comes so obviously after the cycling part of the discussion was over. A newbie mistake not reading to the end of the thread :roll: )


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## fishygurl (Oct 3, 2005)

I think you guys are being really harsh on local petstores atleast. (Not that i know a ton about fish but what i did was reasearch a topic (cycling mostly) Until i was sure that i new about it then go around to all the local pet shops in my area and ask them questions pretending i knew nothing. Some of them knew absouletely nothing (They told me the need to cycle was a myth LOL) But i found one that was really good


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