# new to cichlids



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

As of today, I converted my community tank into a cichlid tank(55 gal). It has been set up for about a year and a half. I sold all my fish back to the store and purchased 2 frontosa cichlids and 6 african cichlids. Sorry I don't know they're exact names. 3 of them are a goldish color with black spots and the other three are bluish with horizantal black stripes. All 8 fish are no more than an inch and are just babies.

The guy that helped me at the store said this was a good cichlid setup. After looking around on the forum a little I'm a little worried that it's not. I saw that frontosas grow to be about 15 inches. The guy told me they would get big, but I did not think he meant that big. My question is will this be a problem? Most likely I will just wait and see how it goes. Just wanted to see what you guys think. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Take the fronts back, they will outgrow your tank

Also, Get pictures of the other africans so we can ID them and possibly give you advice


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2006)

I agree, take the Fronts back to the store. They will get too large for your tank. 

The other Africans may be ok to keep depending on what they are. Like GS said, try to get some pictures. You can host them in something like photobucket.com and post the IMG link on here for us to see them. Some Africans will outgrow a 55g and some are just too aggressive and need a larger tank. There are alot of them that are fine for that size tank though, but you should know what they are and if they play well with others.


----------



## Cory Lover (Dec 5, 2006)

Hi,

I agree, take the Frontosas back.

Cory Lover


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

Here's some pics. Sorry about the water spots...it was pretty hard getting all my old fish out of the tank this morning and the barrel looks really dirty, but its just the picture.


































Full Tank Shot


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

TO me look like some demasonis, and possibly a res zebra, but probably hybrids.


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks for the help. I wish i could've took better pictures, but I suck at it...haha. The guy at the petstore told me their names, but I don't remember.

By the way, the fish are doing really well. They're very active and eat up anything I give em.


----------



## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

Go back to the petstore, figure out which fish you bought and ask the clerk again what you got. Then write it down! A fish notebook or index cards work well, so over time you can jot down what fish purchased when and where, when you did water changes and how much, if you had any sickness and what you tried, maybe if you get lucky what bred and how many babies you got and when!

Knowing what you have really helps us to advise you as we will know how big the fish will get, how many are happiest in a group, what water conditions they need, how aggressive they are, etc. There are so many cichlids, and even within the African lakes, many different types and needs for each species.


----------



## HybridS130 (Aug 27, 2006)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/index.php


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Those look like P. Lombardoi or Kenyi (blue striped females with yellow males) + a red zebra (possibly). You can keep them in a 55, but you need to have a lot a filtration or a lot of water changes. Frontosa should by kept in large groups in 100+ gallon tanks, so take them back. I would take back the red zebra too, the Kenyi will grow to 6-8 inches and be plenty of fish, esp. when they breed. Trade the driftwood for lots and lots of rocks.


----------



## kay-bee (Dec 6, 2006)

You could probably keep the red zebras in there (they're aggressive enough to be kept with kenyi, which are one of the most aggressive african cichlid species around).

After removing the frontosas, you may want to increase the number of mbuna you have in the tank (6 in a 55gal is understocked).


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> kenyi, which are one of the most aggressive african cichlid species


 Socolofi and P. elongatus are worse. What you need is lot more hardscape-rocks, plastic pipe, anything they can hide in or under.


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

I'm gonna jump on the band wagon with everyone else in saying to take back the Fronts. It's not that they couldn't be with the others in all honesty BUT they will get much too big for that size tank. I did keep a single Front in a 65 (same basic dimensions, just a little taller) and he did very well BUT #1. he was only one male and it looks like you may have two males - *no good can come of it *- and #2. he was in with all smaller tanganikans which have slightly different water parameters than the rest of your fish which are malawians. 

IMO it's best to keep the Africans grouped by their respective lakes but many people do mix them. Malawians, again IMO, are much much easier to care for than tanganikans (your fronts are Tangs, the rest are malawians). They are hardy and will really withstand slightly poorer conditions - not that your tank is going to be in poor condition but that's just an fyi. 
The Fronts on the other hand will not take kindly to a drop in pH, etc. and will grow up quickly and want to make nests which will disturb everything in your tank (they dig relentlessly until they reach bare glass). When this starts they will also fight if they are both males and will be convinced that at any minute a female will be swimming by to mate with them and neither of them will want to share their imaginary woman 

With Malawians many people slightly overstock the tank to cut down on aggression. Maybe not the best plan but people do it all the time without a problem. I started out with a few malawians myself and quickly decided their attitudes were more than I could take and switched to tangs with great success. The choice, to me, is between more colorful fish (malawians) that are all the equivalent of short mad little men OR tanganikans which have a variety of unusual shapes and behaviors but not as much color variety. There are Victorians too but I don't see any fish that look like Victorians in your tank so there's no sense in getting into that.

Lastly, again IMO, you can learn a lot about Africans by going to a fish convention. I know it sounds kinda strange if you've never gone to one but I learned most everything I know about Africans from the professional breeders that are at those conventions. Breeders will gladly share their knowledge if you ask them - they love to talk fish. Not to mention that there is usually an auction and you can get Africans real cheap! - bonus!! 

If I can find some old pics of my tank I will post one for you just so you can get an idea for set up as well as how big your front will grow (mine was NOT full grown when I sent him to live in a tank full of ladies  I was told he became quite the stud  )


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

I want to take the fronts back, but the tank is my dad's too and he wants to wait untill they get bigger and then take them back. I'm not gonna try and argue with my dad..haha. Oh well, it's his money. I appreciate all the help though.

I do want to get rid of all the fake decorations and add add a lot of rock to make hiding places. Is it ok to use rock that you can find outside and just boil and clean them?


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

ON the fish: is a second tank possible? Or maybe, if by "get bigger" you don't mean big big, like too big for that space??

On the rocks: I have heard many people say "don't do it" and so I will only say that I have done it with no ill results.


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

Since I don't know how to post pics, the best I can do is direct you to an old yahoo album page to see my front - Dante le Fronte  
This pic is so old it was taken with a 35mm 

Anyway, this is a male frontosa at a little over half his full size. Probably best described as 'bigger than half but smaller than 3/4' his full size. He is just starting to really get a developed hump here but you can't really tell that from the pic.

The key to the pic though is that this is a 65 (same size as your tank but a couple inches taller) and this picture shows the tank up to about 1.5" missing from the left and maybe 5" missing from the right, max. That should give you an idea of their true size. 

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daffy25us/detail?.dir=92e0&.dnm=5a64.jpg&.src=ph


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

No I don't plan on letting them get that big. Maybe 5-6 inches at the most.

Getting a bigger tank is not really an option right now. If i could I would happily get a 180 gallon tank just for the frontosas, but I don't think that's gonna happen. At least not for another 2 years.


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

I forgot to ask. Is there any way I could jsut keep 1 frontosa in my 55 by himself or would he be unhappy.


----------



## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

NO, they need a bigger tank.


----------



## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

h_sheltie said:


> No I don't plan on letting them get that big. Maybe 5-6 inches at the most.


What do you mean your not going to let them get any bigger?


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

a 55 gallon tank is 48x13x21. A 65 is 36x19x24. Not really close in dimensions.


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

I mean I will sell them back to the pet store when they 5-6 inches.


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

They do need a bigger tank but mine was in a 65. That doesn't mean it was a good idea but kinda like with the outside rocks, I didn't have any ill effects. However, the front did scrape himself up from time to time trying to manuever in such a small space for him. 
I'm definitely not saying it was a good idea when I did it either. It was my first tanganikan, like yours, and it led the way to my interest in many other tangs, but, if any human can even awnser this question, I would have to say, he probably wasn't "happy".

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do. I hope your front/s do/es as well as mine did - and that they end up in atank well suited to them as they grow up.


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

Damon, you are describing a breeder - mine was not. 4 ft. x 12" x 18"? or maybe 24"? high - don't know I sold it, too hard to clean - too deep

At any rate, what my I'm getting at is that my tank was also 4 ft long, and my tank was also about a foot from front to back, it was just taller. So h_sheltie's frontosas will have that amount of swimming area with a potential size of much larger than mine in the pic - since fish don't swim up and down

fyi - I just realized in that pic, you can plainly see that my tank was taller because the background is not reaching the bottom of the tank  nice


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

55 is not big enough for frontosas for life- it is too narrow.

I think you have a plan there, though. Fronts grow slowly, and stores are usually interested in buying some mid-sized ones. I would grow them out to 5".


----------



## h_sheltie (Jun 16, 2005)

Sorry for all the questions, but just one more. If it's not safe to use rocks from outside what type of rock should I buy and who would have them?


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

You can buy rocks at the fish store but they will be pricey. I bought lava rock and slate from a local garden center and that worked fine. Lava rock is lava rock and slate, slate no matter where you purchase it.


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I took all my rocks from all my tanks from my backyard. Make sure they are rather plain looking with no obvious mineral deposits or "flecks", scrub them good, and wala, free rocks.


----------



## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

My friend had his frontosas in a 240 gallon tank - they were breeding and they actually got him some decent money in fish store trade. I think he had a harem colony - mostly females with maybe two males?


----------



## Mazzy (Dec 16, 2006)

The person who bought my Front did the same thing with the several females and just my male in the tank. I don't know about breeding Fronts but maybe that's just the way you do it??


----------

