# What's wrong with my oscar?



## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

He used to swim around and be energetic somewhat but now he just barely moves at all and stays on the bottom...he also used to change and get white stripes and they would go away I was assuming it was from stress or something...now one stripe stays and hes pretty pale...eyes look a little bugged out more than usual but I can't tell if thats my imagination or not...He hasn't eaten in about a week...anything I can do? He doesn't look good at all.


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

are oscar's eyes normally this far out from their head? I can't remember but I don't think his was....its been like this for a week or so since its been so long is it fatal?


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## deogan (Oct 10, 2007)

How old is the oscar in the tank? did you change the tank setup recently? or added a new fish? oscars generally get white stripes under stress.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

Jorfee said:


> He used to swim around and be energetic somewhat but now he just barely moves at all and stays on the bottom...he also used to change and get white stripes and they would go away I was assuming it was from stress or something...now one stripe stays and hes pretty pale...eyes look a little bugged out more than usual but I can't tell if thats my imagination or not...He hasn't eaten in about a week...anything I can do? He doesn't look good at all.


See all that calcium dried onto the front of your tank? That means your water is hard as a rock. Start doing 50% water changes everyday to dilute it. Crank the temp up to about 82 and see if he starts eating again. I would also test your water for ammonia, PH , and nitrite. Don't even bother testing for hardness we already know your water is full of minerals. Tell us whats going on in a couple days. 

Also that Oscar is a cull. That's why his dorsal fin looks screwed up. Culls tend to be weaker fish so you might wanna just get rid of it anyway although it may live to a ripe old age.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

1) Test for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte... pH isn't really a factor unless its swinging up and down. If that is the case... I'd test for alkalinity as well. 

2) post these tests on the board

3) I'd do a water change anyway... 25%


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

How long has the tank been set up? How big is it? What are the other tank inhabitants? Have any new fish been added recently? What are you feeding the oscar?

Id also suggest testing your water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. pH and hardness are not usually a big problem unless they are constantly fluctuating and swinging.

The large eyes are commonly refered to as "pop eye" and characterized by the eyes starting to bulge outward. Its a sign of an underlying problem though, so your oscar could be suffering from a bacterial infection or disease.


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

I put some fungal stuff in the tank and its been running for a few months now
theres a minnow he hasnt eaten and a convict in there. I know my water is real hard idk what to do about it...nitrates and all that r fine though. 55 gallon tank and I feed him those chilchid sticks. he wont eat the minnows...only the convict does


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

sigh...

never medicate until you've figured out what the problem is... or at least have some idea. I would do an immediate 20% waterchange and add fresh carbon. Another water change in two days of about 20%... and another in two days of about 20%. Its not fungus. He has no symptoms of fungus... plus fungus is the LAST thing a fish comes down with as it is almost ALWAYS secondary to a bacterial infection. 

As for the convict and him getting along. That COULD be the problem, but we won't know unless you POST THOSE VALUES that we've asked for!!!! A mature convict is much quicker and much more aggressive than a poor oscar.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

again don't worry bout the water hardness 
"See all that calcium dried onto the front of your tank? That means your water is hard as a rock. Start doing 50% water changes everyday to dilute it. Crank the temp up to about 82 and see if he starts eating again."

DO NOT DO 50% water changes unless you do them weekly or more often anyway. Raising the temp will not help either.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

What are your water parameters exactly? Saying "oh yeah, the nitrates and stuff are fine..." says NOTHING! Test the water and tell us the numbers!


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

"minnows" are a poor choice of foods for either a convict or an oscar.
(and your oscar is going to need a much larger tank within the next few months)

As was noted - we can tell you alot more if you give us actual water quality numbers.

Also - how often are you changing water, and how much ?

While I'm waiting for you to answer those, I'll join the long line of folks who are recommending (or thinking but not typing) : 
*water changes, water changes, water changes !*


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

yeah water changes I haven't done in a bit...and the water testing strips I have don't have numbers just color coded. The temp is always 82 and he has pop eye which the medicene says it fixes...yeah the convict is alot faster and my oscar is not very aggressive at all which surprised me. What kind of live food should I be feeding my oscar? I realize I need to do a water change...the carbon filters I have 4 of and are pretty new...and i'll need a bigger tank than 55 gallons for my one oscar and convict? that seems a little excessive

EDIT: so the first thing I should do is a water change? as of now the carbon filters are out because of the medicene...


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

Also should I remove the convict and place him in my 10 gallon tank by himself? Most likely a good idea


EDIT: ok i moved my convict into the 10 gal tank by himself...now its jus the oscar...a minnow and a algae eater. I will remove the minnow shortly..im about done with the vacuuming/water change...and I found the numbers on the test strips you guys were talking about and I will provide you with them shortly. and btw will the oscar get that big where he should be in a tank bigger than 55gal?


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2007)

Fishfirst said:


> again don't worry bout the water hardness
> "See all that calcium dried onto the front of your tank? That means your water is hard as a rock. Start doing 50% water changes everyday to dilute it. Crank the temp up to about 82 and see if he starts eating again."
> 
> DO NOT DO 50% water changes unless you do them weekly or more often anyway. Raising the temp will not help either.



Yo? Do you know how hard his water has to be to create deposits like that on his glass? I would bet he has been topping that tank up all summer instead of doing partial water changes. I would also bet his Ph is low. Those fish are messy eaters and I bet his gravel is a methane pit. If he does a 50% water change while plunging his gravel most of that methane will go right up his syphon hose. He will be removing half his hard acid water and deluting it with softer water at a higher Ph. When he adds the new fresh water he will also be creating alot of aggitation which will disipate the remaining methane in to the air. Thats what I think he should do.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

An adult oscar is over 14" long (I have one about that size in a 125g tank and do weekly water changes to keep it healthy.)
A 55g tank is only about 12" wide. 
No fish should spend much time in a tank narrower than the fish's adult size.

I like a 75g tank for a single adult oscar, or 125g for two.

I rarely feed mine live food, but when I do its earthworms, ghost shrimp, or crickets. Feeder fish are a bad idea for most aquarium fishes, and oscars are not primarily fish-eaters in the wild - they are more invertebrate predators.
Mostly my fish get pellets, frozen krill, frozen shrimp, frozen "formula I", and occasional fresh scallops.


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

Fishguy54 said:


> Yo? Do you know how hard his water has to be to create deposits like that on his glass? I would bet he has been topping that tank up all summer instead of doing partial water changes. I would also bet his Ph is low. Those fish are messy eaters and I bet his gravel is a methane pit. If he does a 50% water change while plunging his gravel most of that methane will go right up his syphon hose. He will be removing half his hard acid water and deluting it with softer water at a higher Ph. When he adds the new fresh water he will also be creating alot of aggitation which will disipate the remaining methane in to the air. Thats what I think he should do.


I did almost a 50% water change and it's all filled back up...But the oscar isn't looking very good at all...What else can I do? If he has pop eye and I have fungus medicene that fights pop eye...why not use it? I have very hard water. and I vacuumed the tank all out and removed the convict.


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

redpaulhus said:


> An adult oscar is over 14" long (I have one about that size in a 125g tank and do weekly water changes to keep it healthy.)
> A 55g tank is only about 12" wide.
> No fish should spend much time in a tank narrower than the fish's adult size.
> 
> ...



Damn...well I mean it's gonna have to do cause I don't have the funds for a larger tank...in the future yeah but right now I have 2 55gallons and a 10 gal tank.......I will be back in about 20 minutes with the test strip results...


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

ok...nitrates are 40 safe zone
nitrites are 0 safe
hardness is 300 very hard
chlorine is 0 safe
alkalinity is 300 high
ph is an 8.4 I think

His fins also seem to be deteriorating


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

and hes got fin rot now...soo I dont know if its worth giving him medicene idk if he will make it


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Test your ammonia - at that pH, ammonia is extremely toxic even in small amounts.

In the meantime - keep doing those water changes !


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

no... don't give up on him... you just did stuff to fast in my opinion. Like I said... 25% water changes, even less would be beneficial, he may have osmotic shock because of the 50% water change and that is why his condition got worse. Do a 25% water change every other day for the next week and a half. I would also use a melafix or maracyn 2 for the infections if you don't see improvement in 2 days. 

Fungus med that cures pop eye? Possibly... but I would use a more specific medication that treats for bacterial infections as this is what pop eye is in general.


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

i dont have ammonia test strips...what can I do to bring the ammonia down? I might have some stuff to put in the water to lower it...should I just do that?


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

Fishfirst said:


> no... don't give up on him... you just did stuff to fast in my opinion. Like I said... 25% water changes, even less would be beneficial, he may have osmotic shock because of the 50% water change and that is why his condition got worse. Do a 25% water change every other day for the next week and a half. I would also use a melafix or maracyn 2 for the infections if you don't see improvement in 2 days.
> 
> Fungus med that cures pop eye? Possibly... but I would use a more specific medication that treats for bacterial infections as this is what pop eye is in general.



alright...the fungus medication I got says it also treats fin rot, open wounds and all that stuff...I think I still have melafix I believe...if im not all out of it..i'll check now...should I put that in even tho the medication from the previous time is still in there? Also someone told me to take the medication and put a concentrated amount in a small bowl and put him in it for about 5 min. I havent done anything yet but if i find that melafix i'll put some in there.

EDIT: I'll take a pic of the medication and post it here... I dont have melafix but I checked the fungus clear medication and it says "clears fungus and bacteria fast" I also have amquel+ and says that lowers ammonia


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

so should I put that amquel+ in today?


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

and im also on my way to buy some melafix pretty soon so I will probably just put that in first and wait a f ew days to add the other stuff?


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Don't add amquel if you haven't tested for ammonia.

Good news is that your fungus med is actually *nitrofurazone and furazolidone -- *two good antibiotics in general. Unfortunately they also both are "gram negative" antibiotics (well, nitrofurazone is both gram+ and gram-) , and will therefore knock back (ie kill) your biofilter.

What's this mean ?

It means the fungus med will make your biofilter stop processing fish waste as well - so ammonia and possibly nitrite may start going up - ie poor water quality. Which since most of these infections are initially _caused_ by poor water quality, may make things worse instead of better.

This is the number #1 reason to always treat fish in a hospital tank and never medicate your main tank.
Its alot easier to treat a fish in a 20g tank and give it daily water changes to keep the ammonia levels down than it is to do so in a 55g tank...

some good info on antibiotics:
http://www.syngnathid.org/articles/medications.html
(its officially about saltwater, but most of the drugs are also used for freshwater )


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

redpaulhus said:


> Don't add amquel if you haven't tested for ammonia.
> 
> Good news is that your fungus med is actually *nitrofurazone and furazolidone -- *two good antibiotics in general. Unfortunately they also both are "gram negative" antibiotics (well, nitrofurazone is both gram+ and gram-) , and will therefore knock back (ie kill) your biofilter.
> 
> ...


damn....I never knew...so your saying melafix even is a bad idea in my tank?


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

Melafix probably not (I haven't had too much trouble with it) but in general - I bet 90% of the forum members would recomend always using a hospital tank.
(10% think everything they read here is BS, according to a recent informal poll, and probably toss nyquil in their aquariums... )


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I just read (on a pharma website) to never feed your fish when using an antibiotic (because no food=no ammonia).


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

redpaulhus said:


> Melafix probably not (I haven't had too much trouble with it) but in general - I bet 90% of the forum members would recomend always using a hospital tank.
> (10% think everything they read here is BS, according to a recent informal poll, and probably toss nyquil in their aquariums... )



well I don't have one sadly so I really don't have any choice but to use the tank I got. I'll just have to really keep up on the water changes. I've used this stuff and treated my other 55gallon tank many times without issue...not saying you guys are lying and if I had the cash on had (paying back tons of school loans) I would pick up a spare tank to use for this reason but I'm pretty short on cash so what I have is gonna have to do...


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

emc7 said:


> I just read (on a pharma website) to never feed your fish when using an antibiotic (because no food=no ammonia).



and it's been like 2 weeks since he ate so I don't think I have to worry about food right now lol

Here's a pic of one of my tanks..plexiglass I believe and the top isn't removable which sucks.









My filter...(I keep the rubbermaid tops there to help with the evaporation...since I have no top the water evaporates too quickly)









and an updated pic of him....lookin worse.


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

and my other tanks just cause i'm bored


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## Countryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

OK a quick question, how's the convict doing?


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

Countryguy said:


> OK a quick question, how's the convict doing?


In the tank with the oscar he was perfectly fine. I took him out yesterday and put him in the 10gallon tank u see above...all he does is stay in that little cave thing now


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## Countryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Jorfee said:


> In the tank with the oscar he was perfectly fine. I took him out yesterday and put him in the 10gallon tank u see above...all he does is stay in that little cave thing now


Was the convict gotten before or after the Oscar was put in the tank???


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

Countryguy said:


> Was the convict gotten before or after the Oscar was put in the tank???


He was put in the tank before the oscar was


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

He's been laying on his side all day..I have no choice but to medicate and have put in melafix since yesterday but he's not going to make it..all hes doing is suffering


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

and hes dead


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## Countryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Jorfee said:


> and hes dead


I'm sorry to hear that...

:sad:


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sorry for your loss. In my experience, once a cichlid stops eating, it almost never makes it. I do think you need to be careful with pH and hardness for large water changes. I once killed an angel by moving it to higher pH tank too quickly. However, I have seen remarkable recoveries with no treatment except moving a fish to a 100% clean water hospital tank. Are you going to bleach the tank?


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)

emc7 said:


> Sorry for your loss. In my experience, once a cichlid stops eating, it almost never makes it. I do think you need to be careful with pH and hardness for large water changes. I once killed an angel by moving it to higher pH tank too quickly. However, I have seen remarkable recoveries with no treatment except moving a fish to a 100% clean water hospital tank. Are you going to bleach the tank?



bleach? no I never heard of that. I filled it all back up and now have another oscar in there and a very aggressive one. When I first put him in he was laying on his side within the hour barely moving but he quickly bounced back and since then has an appetite that seems never ending. Eats so many fish lol


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## Jorfee (Jul 22, 2007)




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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

Jorfee said:


> Also should I remove the convict and place him in my 10 gallon tank by himself? Most likely a good idea
> 
> 
> EDIT: ok i moved my convict into the 10 gal tank by himself...now its jus the oscar...a minnow and a algae eater. I will remove the minnow shortly..im about done with the vacuuming/water change...and I found the numbers on the test strips you guys were talking about and I will provide you with them shortly. and btw will the oscar get that big where he should be in a tank bigger than 55gal?


How big is your Convict? A 10 gallon is pretty small for a Convict unless its a fry or a few weeks old. I also saw in your previous post about live food, if your looking for "feeders" I wouldnt do comets, but would do guppies and endlers but make sure you quarentine them first to make sure they dont have an illnesses. If someone already stated what I have then I apoligize for being late on the post.


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

Jorfee said:



> bleach? no I never heard of that. I filled it all back up and now have another oscar in there and a very aggressive one. When I first put him in he was laying on his side within the hour barely moving but he quickly bounced back and since then has an appetite that seems never ending. Eats so many fish lol


Try not to feed him so many feeders, even though it can be tempting try not, I have a friend whose Oscar will ONLY eat live food, he refuses pellets and sticks.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Yes, oscars will eventually outgrow a 55g if you let them. If you move him to a 75g at about 9", he will grow to a nice 13-14"!


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