# Black sand substrate



## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Hey guys,
What types/brands of black sand is there out there? 
I've got live plants, what do you guys recommend? Nothing fancy, just your ordinary easy to care for plants. 
So far i have seen this "tahitian moon" stuff from the LFS. But that's about it. Is that pretty much the only choice?


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## shev (Jan 18, 2005)

Eco complete is good for plants.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

I wouldn't waste your time with buying a substrate for plants unless you are planting heavy. 2-3 plants in a tank isn't enough to justify buying an expensive substrate. What size is your tank? How many and what type of plants do you have or want to keep? Lighting?


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Well, the tank that i am doing is going to be anywhere from 55-75 gallons. The tank will be a medium planted tank. Not extremely heavy, but planted nonetheless. For lighting i will be using one of those special "plant" bulbs. I will simply replace the bulb at the top of the tank. I dont really have any of those harder to care for plants, so i dont think i'll need any special lighting.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

The bulb on the tank is only 40 watts. Thats less than 1 wpg. You will not grow much with it. Save you money on the substrate.


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## MiSo (May 3, 2005)

well, for a 55 gallon tank, you're going to need atleast 40 lbs of substrate, and eco complete comes in a 20 lbs bag for about $25.
you can get it cheaper if you shop around.

a 5 lb bag of black sand at my lfs cost $4 per bag.
so plain sand is a bit cheaper but you're better off spending the couple extra bucks for a bag of eco complete if you want to plant.

i actually have a mix of 20lbs eco complete and 20 lbs black sand in my 55 gallon. it's not too densly planted but the plants are doing fine. but then again, i only choose plants that don't require much care.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

WHat's Eco? Does it look like sand? Do i have to mix it with anything?


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## MiSo (May 3, 2005)

eco complete kind of resembles sand, although there are larger sized chunks that come with it. its black and when mixed with sand it blends very nicely.
here's a pic of how eco complete looks. 
you do not have to mix it with anything but i did to save me some money.
one 20lb bag eco = $25
20 lbs black sand = $16


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

So does this Eco stuff cloud the water or change the color at all? Will my fish still think it's sand? Do i clean it just like i clean the sand? With the sand i plan on getting a few malaysian trumpet snails to stir up the sand and all i have to do are water changes Without having to disturb and vacum the sand. 
Is it ok to do with the Eco stuff too? 
If in the future i decide to get "burrowing" fish that like to dig into the substrate, will the Eco stuff be ok?

Do you have any pics of your tank with the black sand and Eco mixed together?


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

eco digests fish waste so its kinda worth it and it wont really be a problem for the vaccum so just do the surface

its great for burrowing fish

and it doesnt clog your filter


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

solar-ton said:


> eco digests fish waste so its kinda worth it and it wont really be a problem for the vaccum so just do the surface
> 
> its great for burrowing fish
> 
> and it doesnt clog your filter


So you're saying i dont have to vaccum inside the substrate? So... can i get some malaysian trumpet snails and just let them stir up the surface of the substrate and i'll never have to vaccum the substrate like i would do with sand? 
The previously posted picture is sort of decieving. Is the texture more like fine rocks? Or is it actually more like a sand? 

thanks


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

the snails will eat the waste and the sand bacteria will change it into plant food im saying you wont have to vaccum it thaat much cause the sand separates into 2 layers large grain and super fine grain


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

It's more like fine rocks than sand, and snails will rather crawl over it than burrow through it. Fish would have a harder time digging it than they would sand.

It is like live sand for freshwater tanks in that it is full of bacteria from the start. The finer size partcles sink lower where the plants' roots are, while the bigger rocks stay near the top for looks and to keep the finer particles from getting swirled up all the time.

It's not cheap, though. Unless you want a "plant tank" it's not really worth it. The tahitian moon sand would be fine otherwise. They don't make it anymore, by the way, so you might want to get it while you can.


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

the bottom part is soft as hell i have it so thats how i know


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## IloveCichlids (Jul 11, 2005)

They are not producing moon sand anymore? Why?


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## MiSo (May 3, 2005)

Alin10123 said:


> Do you have any pics of your tank with the black sand and Eco mixed together?


unfortunately, i dont have a digital camera.
but if you're looking to do live plants, there are benefits to having it than using regular sand. besides, if you skip out on it now, it'll be a pain in the ass to swap it out later.


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

IloveCichlids said:


> They are not producing moon sand anymore? Why?


i think they are but thats mostly for non planted or very little planted tanks eco complete is popular cause it turns poo into plant food


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Tahitian moon sand is no longer being produced. Eco complete is not sand, nor does it act like sand. Snails crawl over it and fish don't dig in it (like stated above). Over a period od years, it will get soft on the bottom, but will not change into mush like aquasoil. I will buffer your water 2-4 degrees. This lasts 3-5 months. I will not color your water and has very little odor (odorless in water). Onyx sand is a viable alternative but unless you are planting heavy, just get an inert sand like poolsand. Planted substrates are expensive. They serve no purpose other than adding iron and as a backup if nutrients in the watercolumn get low. This is from experience. I have eco complete in 2 tanks, sand flourite in another and inert sand in a fourth. All the tanks grow plants well.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> Tahitian moon sand is no longer being produced. Eco complete is not sand, nor does it act like sand. Snails crawl over it and fish don't dig in it (like stated above). Over a period od years, it will get soft on the bottom, but will not change into mush like aquasoil. I will buffer your water 2-4 degrees. This lasts 3-5 months. I will not color your water and has very little odor (odorless in water). Onyx sand is a viable alternative but unless you are planting heavy, just get an inert sand like poolsand. Planted substrates are expensive. They serve no purpose other than adding iron and as a backup if nutrients in the watercolumn get low. This is from experience. I have eco complete in 2 tanks, sand flourite in another and inert sand in a fourth. All the tanks grow plants well.


So if it's not a tank that's really heavily planted, i should be ok with just regular sand?


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## solar-ton (Aug 15, 2005)

just dont get play sand plecos have problems with it and it need to be washed a lot before you can put it in


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Regular sand will work fine. If you are still wary about just using sand, use laterite on the bottom inch and cover it with 2 inches of sand. It will be cheaper and you'll still get your iron in the tank.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Ok... So if they stop producing tahitian moon, 
Is there a black sand alternative? I'm looking for something fine so that stuff can't get into it. This way all i need are a few snails to churn up the surface and i wont have to vaccum the substrate.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Onyx Sand by Seachem. They make a sand and a small grain pebble type substrate. $13-15 per bag online.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> Onyx Sand by Seachem. They make a sand and a small grain pebble type substrate. $13-15 per bag online.


So is it considered a sand eventhough it's a pebble type substrate? Will snails want to dig around in it?

thanks.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

They make both a sand and a small pebble. the snails will crawl through the sand. Your LFS should also carry black sand (inert).


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## IloveCichlids (Jul 11, 2005)

You can try to find 3M color quarts. Works well, cheap, but hard to find.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> They make both a sand and a small pebble. the snails will crawl through the sand. Your LFS should also carry black sand (inert).


THey actually still carry the Tahitian moon stuff. 
Maybe i'll grab some before there's no more. 
Is tahitian moon considered sand? Or small pebbles? 
Remember, i want the stuff the snails will crawl through.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

It is sand.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> It is sand.


Thanks,
I remember that there was a volume calculator for sand on here once. Anyone know the link?


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

oh yea, quick question. If i decide to save my money on the special substrate and just get the regular black sand. What happens if my plants start to yellow. Are the "drop in" Iron supplements ok to use? I bet it would be pretty hard to change substrates after i cycle the new stuff. Are there any drawbacks to using that? Or will everything be ok?


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Iron is usually not the problem. If the plants grow in yellow, then its usually NO3. If they turn yellow, then its usually Potassium. I have a link somewhere.............
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
Gotta love Chuch Gadd. 
With low tech tanks, Macros and trace are usually the problems, not micros.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> Iron is usually not the problem. If the plants grow in yellow, then its usually NO3. If they turn yellow, then its usually Potassium. I have a link somewhere.............
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
> Gotta love Chuch Gadd.
> With low tech tanks, Macros and trace are usually the problems, not micros.


ok ok...
Rephrase the question.
If i decide to just use regular sand. 
Then later on my plants start to show nutrient deficiencies, can i later on add supplemental nutrients into the water? Wil that be ok for the fish? 
Since i know it would be hard to change the substrate afterwards.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

This is actually the peferred method of introducing nutrients for the plants. It is easier for them to absorb nutrients from the water column before absorbing them through the roots. Tropica master grow is a great plant fertilizer. There are others and even PMDD if you want to really get into it.


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## Alin10123 (May 22, 2005)

Simpte said:


> This is actually the peferred method of introducing nutrients for the plants. It is easier for them to absorb nutrients from the water column before absorbing them through the roots. Tropica master grow is a great plant fertilizer. There are others and even PMDD if you want to really get into it.


Sweet,
So in the future if this tank expands into a heavily planted tank, i can still just simply add in nutrients in the water. Ok... sounds good to me then. Regular sand substrate it is.

As long as the nutrients are ok for the fish. :mrgreen:


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