# convict cichlid and know little about care



## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

i adopted this fishy from my friend.she was tired of caring for it and started to let it go.not changing water.keeping up with the parameters.this fish went a long time without a filter and an air pump.the water was filthy when i went to get it.she said the water evaporated fast and she poured water in there everyday so im assuming thats how the fish got its oxygen.the fish came with his home.a 10gl with white gravel,couple of fake plants,a castle and a couple of other silly looking ornaments.as soon as i got the tank and fish i went out got some new gravel,some river rocks,a real plant(starts with an a i forgot name),another fake sword plant,a log with entries and fake plants on it,some water conditioner for chlorine and chloramines,some test strips,a hang on ph testcard and an ammonia alert card and some new food.he was eating goldfish flakes.got him some floating and sinking cichlid food he just spits those out but loves the leftover goldfish flakes and beefheart i got him.oh also an aquatech 10 to 15gl filter and air pump.
now for the problems.

the tank i believe is cycling from all the new water and stuff.the fish is in the tank.what do i do for the fish during ammonia and nitrite spikes???

how do i deal with this?i know this specific fish should be in a 30gl plus tank but i cant afford to buy(at the moment) a 30gl,new filter more gravel,more river rocks,more decor and not to mention nowhere sturdy enough to handle the 300lb plus tank so i would need a stand.helpppppppppppppppp


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Deal with ammonia, nitrite and the small size of the tank in the same way, water changes. Do 30% twice a week, more if the fish looks unhappy, gasps at the surface, clamps it fins, or you get high ammonia or nitrite readings. Convicts are tough little beasts and you should have a hard time killing it. They are from central america and like slightly alkaline, somewhat hard water. This is pretty typical tap water, so unless you are getting an extreme number, don't worry about 'adjusting' it. 

Don't overfeed while you are 'cycling'. Once every other day to twice a day is enough.

Convicts are bright fish with good eyesight. Keep alone, it will pay a lot of attention to its 'feeder' and will recognize you and may even learn tricks and play with toys.

Since you have an air-pump, you might as well attach a sponge filter to it. Its a great way to deal with ammonia/nitrite at a pretty low cost. Something like this. http://www.google.com/products/cata...=brPiTb32B4jPgAfm3q3CBg&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQ8wIwAg Squeeze it out once a week in the outgoing waste water.

Convicts keep growing and can surprise you with how big they can get and how long they can live. Keep the water clean and you should have some time before you need to upgrade. A single fish is easier to keep in a small tank because you don't have aggression issues.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

nice i will get one of those sponge filters.
so dont use any chemicals to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite,correct?
my tap water is perfect for em minus chorine and chloramines.
ph8.4
alkalinity 120
hardness 300(im sure it wouldnt hurt to bring that down haha)

my ph is dropping,tho could that be due to the water conditioning for chlorine and that kordon ammquel plus i used?

my nitrite stays at 3.0 even after a 20-30% change.
im using the jungle five tests in one strip.
an ammonia alert card and ph alert card.
the ph alert card is in line with the jungles ph reading so it couldnt be defective or having a misreading due to the ammquel??

ive had "Doc"for 3weeks now and he seems pretty happy.none of what you mentioned.yeah i thought he was smart.whenever i come by he comes out of hiding and stares at me,but somebody else is near he disappears.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Something like Amquel+ or Prime that 'detoxifies' ammonia and nitrite is a good precaution to deal with 'cycling'. It will allow the bacteria to eat the 'complexed' ammonia while protecting the fish from spikes. And they will deal with chloramine in tap water. I'm not a fan of chemical ammonia or nitrite 'remover's. They starve the filter bacteria you are trying to grow and you end up needing them forever or starting the 'cycle' over again.

Your water is hard and alkaline, but within the range a convict can thrive in. You will get white crust on stuff and sometimes in the air-line. Soak it in vinegar or lime-a-way, then rinse well. Clean up spills and drips promptly. 

If a water conditioner say 'adjusts' or 'removes' alkalinity, it could indeed be affecting you pH. Let your tap water sit overnight and test it before and after, sometimes tap water just falls. But high nitrite and nitrate can lower pH of water as can some decor like driftwood. But if the fish is healthy, I think you can mostly ignore pH, its high enough (convicts in soft water often get fin-rot and fungus)

Also test the tap water for nitrite as a way to 'test the test'. Test can make false positives. A 33% water change should lower levels by 1/3. Try a 66% change and see if you see a difference. If you nitrite really is high, do daily large water changes and cut way back on feeding until things improve. A sponge filter should help with this.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

thanks!your knowledge helps alot.i tested my tap water again and read the same as i first tested it so no faulty readings.ill read this tap water i have aging for my snake and scorpions as soon as it hits that 24hr mark to see what happens to ph levels in aged water.
ill stop using that ammquel and do the 30% water changes twice a week.
if the water tests the same two days in a row is it due for another partial water change or will too many water changes work against establishing the bacteria?
for removing chlorine and chloride im using jungle complete water conditioner with natural aloe.it says it only removes chlorine and chloramine.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Most of the bacteria is in the filter and it won't grow in either ammonia or nitrite is too high. So change as much water as you need to to get it to 'safe' range. That whole 'don't change water during cycling' is a stupid myth. Really high ammonia kills the bacteria and then the tank never cycles. Even 80-90% is ok if the temp is good and its been dechlored. Amquel+ is ok to use, start using it again if the fish looks less happy. I don't think a somewhat lower pH will hurt anything, either. Don't overdose a product with aloe, or you will get a slime on the water.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

thanks ill do as you said buddy.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

i found a good deal at petco for an aqueon 29gl kit for $120.filter,hood light combo,water heater etc.sound like a good deal? or should i buy piece by piece? i know snake starter kits suck but what about fish aquarium kits?are their pumps crap like snake kit thermometers and undertank heaters?is a 29gl good for one convict and possibly another fish or two of the same size or smaller?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Convicts don't share well. It'd do ok in a 29 alone, but I don't know what would do well with one. If you really want more than one fish, a 55 would be better.

Often the combo deals are good if you intend to use stock lighting. Esp. at the 55 gallon size. Price lids, lights and tanks separately and you will often find the hood prices high enough to make the combo worthwhile. Combo filters, though, tend to suck. Usually they work, but are undersized. The filter in 29 kit will likely work nicely on a 15 gallon. If you use a kit filter, supplement with a big sponge filter or two. Look carefully at the lids, also. Some lids have 2 plastic pins as a hinge and fall in the tank when opened until the pins break off. If the lid sucks, add in the cost of a glass 'canopy' from an online site. 

If you don't care about the light, you might do better buying a glass tank locally and a glass canopy online for $20 (+shipping) and use the light from the 10. The fish won't care. http://www.petsolutions.com/storefr...es/aqueon-versa-tops/prodAqueonVersaTops.html

If you are buying from a chain store and the fish hasn't outgrown the 10 yet, you might want to wait for a sale. 1$/gallon tank sales or 10-25% kit sales usually happen a couple times a year. See if the local store will clue you into upcoming events. 

I hate PetSmart's fish but they have a tank, lid, light for $90 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3804444&lmdn=Fish+Aquariums+&amp;+Bowls and a kit for $130. 

Top fin is not as good as Aqueon, and you'd have a hard time finding a filter and heater for $40, but I don't think the 'extras' are really worth $40. The 100W heater and topfin 30 (150 gph) are both suited for a tank half that size. This is pretty typical of kits. I put 55 kit filters on 29 gallon tanks.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

thanks again man.your the only one who helps around here and it is much appreciated.i dont really care about adding other fish.i like Doc and dont need any other fish in there with him my family would like the aquarium downstairs with other fish in it as well but they refuse to pitch in some cash or help take care of it so Doc will be in my room with his own 29gl. with the rest of my critters.they can fill Docs old tank with their lil school fishies or whatever.

yeah someone told me today filters are rated too high and a filter rated 50-55gl is best suited for a 29gl.i dont care too much for lighting.so that settles it.ill buy everything piece by piece.any suggestions on the quietest and most efficient air pumps and filters?this aquarium will be going under my snakes enclosure table and i dont want excessive vibrations messing with her.one of my friends said aquaclear are good for hang on quiet filters.hang on filter or canister????


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

id say hes outgrown it.hes about 4.5'' and not to mention every one and a half days the ammonia alert says theres 0.3 ammonia and the test strip reads 3.0 nitrite.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

All the hang-on-backs make a waterfall sound, some have vibration also. If you find a 'running water' sound helps you sleep, you are fine. If it makes you need to run to the bathroom, you might not want one in the bedroom. Canisters are more $, but quieter, esp. if you can put the part with the motor inside a stand to muffle it. They are more work to clean, but don't need it as often. Marineland stuff is both good and cheap, but tends to get loud over time. You end up buying new impellers to shush it. Aquaclears are good, have lower media costs than cartridge fitlers, but I've heard of a some new ones arriving noisy lately.

Since you are still getting ammonia and nitrite, the tank is not 'cycled'. A bigger tank won't automatically help (except the numbers will be lower by dilution), you need more working filtration. Can't tell if the filter is too small or just not 'cycled'. You could try something like Stability to boost it.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

ive had this aquatech 10-15gl for approx 3weeks now.i think it might be a combination of both not cycled and the filter is too small.i cant afford to buy a bare 29 gl tank and $90 50-55gl aquaclear this week or next week.itll be three weeks before i have it all gathered to set up.would it be a good idea to get a 30gl filter to replace the current filter for those 3 weeks?it wouldnt be a waste as id still keep the 10g and filter to give to the fam for some lil school fish.if i do get a new filter should i put that black bio filter where the bacteria grows inside the tank as well to help aid in the cycling of the new filter?

the sound of running water is soothing to me and wont be a problem but a $200 cartridge filter will not fit into my current finances.
so i did a 70% water change yesterday around 5pm.after the change the ammonia and nitrites were fine.i woke up around 930am this morning and again ammonia 0.2 and nitrite 3.0.should i be doing partial water changes daily at this point??
im sorry for asking so much but its hard to find answers from fish shops without them paying attention to the specific problems im having without cutting me off and trying to sell me a chemical or rushing my story.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

oh another question,Doc puffs up his gills and looks fatter when he looks at me sometimes.he also tries to bite me through the glass.im figuring hes just trying to scare me off or something and isnt a sign of ammonia or nitrite poisoning,right?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

red gills, gasping, lethargy are symptoms. Flaring and biting are normal. Get a huge sponge filter or two. Run with and an air pump and cut way, way back on feeding. Give it like 1-2 flakes every day. 

You don't need expensive filters if you can stand the 'glug, glug' of bubbles and are willing to change enough water for the amount you feed.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

none of those symptoms i guess hes just being feisty.

im gonna grab that sponge filter maybe two if there is an air pump tube splitter for two sponge filters to add on to the air pump.or is that a bad idea?

im also going to pick up a higher rated water filter this weekend as well to help Docs water til the end of the month when he gets his new home.

someone also told me dropping a piece of vegetable in the tank will help the bacteria grow faster,is this true or more well intended bad advice?

emc7 again i cant thank you enough


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Get a "gang valve" instead of a "tee", that will allow you to adjust both air-lines independently. Most likely it work great. But if the air-pump is too small, you will be only able to get one to bubble at a time. If this happens, you need a bigger air-pump or you can run sponge filters with a 'power-head' (just a little water pump). A power head will cost you $10-40 but is quieter than an air-pump. So think about switching if the glub, glub starts bugging you.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Feeding a tank vegetables to make ammonia works great for 'fishless cycling'. When you have fish, you feed the fish. You don't have a shortage of ammonia, so don't do anything to make ammonia.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

thanks again buddy your knowledge is priceless to me.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

alright update on whats going on here.after groceries,hitting up petco for some snake and scorpion necessities,and toy store(for the kids that were with me),i only had enough mula for picking up two sponge filters,air line and a regulating gang valve,the store clerk at ocean floor said this product would help boost my cycling process.its a "live"bacteria called nitromax by tropical science biolabs.it says it contains over 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce.is this some bs cause i dont see how any bacteria in a bottle without anything to feed off of?its said to have a good shelf life and it lives nine months refrigerated after opening.any experience with this type of product?i cant find any reviews which to me is a bad sign.
ill pick up a filter tomorrow after some of my items are sold at a yard sale we're having,so Doc will have to deal with his 15gl filter for another day.
thanks ahead


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

The are lots of these 'bacteria in a bottle' products out there now. Some are complete snake oil, some work most of the time, some work some of the time. When they first came out, one had the wrong bacteria and actually slowed the 'cycle' down. But things seem better now. I've found Stability to be somewhat helpful for 'stalled cycles'. When they work they 'jump start' the filter bacteria by seeding the bacteria you are trying to grow (the ammonia eaters and the nitrite eaters). The don't work if you don't have a good filter for bacteria to live in or in water that is so bad it kills the stuff. Usually you need to add at least twice, once when you have ammonia, and once more when you have nitrite. I haven't tried this nitromax, nor can I find reviews. Its kind of pricey, but it is unlikely to hurt much. Try it if you like. We were assuming the filter is too small, but 'uncycled' would also produce the results you are seeing. 

Don't overdose, use as directed. There may well be ammonia in the bottle to feed the stuff, so don't be shocked if it goes up when you add it. 

Between the sponge filters and the bacteria to populate them, you should see at least some reduction in the ammonia & nitrite levels within a week even if you don't get another power filter. Sponge filters are really very good at biological filtration. Many breeders use sponge filters and water changes exclusively. 

If you don't see progress, its back to "feed less, change more water".

Btw, check for stupid stuff. Make sure the little filter is pumping, that it has water flowing out through the filter part and not around the intake (it will if the filter pad is clogged) and that it isn't plugged into a timer or switched outlet (filters that go on and off never cycle).

PS don't just switch power filters, you always want to run them both long enough for bacteria to move in to the new home.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

alrighty buddy i used that nitromax and a couple of hours the tests said no ammonia or nitrites..hmmm..the directions say to use it once a day til your ammonia and nitrites are at the level you want them.buuut at least 12 hrs later they are back.

i checked for the stupid lil stuff and i found the filter pad is full of smuck and in fact some water is running out around the intake part.oceans floor told me not to change the filter pad til cycling is complete.is this true?should i just take some of the tanks water and rinse some of the gunk off in the sink and put it back or just replace the filter pad altogether?

another thing should i just pm you since this thread is just you and i?
im sorry if your annoyed by my constant noob questions,i just care about my critters alot.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Try swishing it around in the waste water. If that doesn't cut it (and I'll be surprised if it does), rinse it in the sink under the faucet (not hot, more like tank temp water). The chlorine will kill some, but not all of your bacteria, but the stuff in the bottle will hopefully put it back. Don't toss the cartridge until it starts to fall apart. Clean the intake strainer while you are at it.

Smuck in the filter will keep making ammonia, even when you don't feed. Same with gunk in the substrate or thick slime on a sponge filter. Smuck restricting the flow will also make the filter less effective. You want to get it cleaner without killing everything.

Use the bottled stuff as directed and lets hope it helps.

You can pm me if you want, but being able to search old threads is great for the next newb and we're not getting any "go away" posts. You can actually block out threads and posters you don't want to see, so it isn't really an issue.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

cool man thanks,i used some waste water from the tank swooshed it and poured some on and helped rub some off and cleaned up intake.then i divided a teaspoon of that bacteria stuff,poured it into the bio filter, filter cartridge and two sponge filters.
yeah ill keep on in this thread cause it would help someone else.
well i know everything i need to do with this tank til the new tank, Doc and i thank you very much,you helped save a really cool fish. 
what should i do when i get the new tank?of course let the water get to the same temp,treat it for chorine and chloramine but should i do the fishless cycle thing or add Doc and his old filters?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I would move fish and filters together. That way you take you 'cycle' with you and don't start over and the fish gets more space and cleaner water (diluted poisons are less toxic) sooner. The only time I would do a fishless cycle is if I had no fish yet or if I had a disease in the existing tank I really didn't want to spread.

Once you get the bigger tank's filter established, you can move the little filter back to the ten, fill it with clean water, and get some small fish. Or just hold it in reserve for QT/hospital.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

thanks one final question til something else comes up.

i was looking at craigslist aquariums for sale and found a 37gl,lid and light combo for less than what i was gonna pay for the 29gl hood,light combo new.
should i just buy new or go for the bigger cheaper tank (as long as theres no leaks)?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Bigger is usually better. Is it 36" vs. 30" long or 18" instead of 12" deep? Those are no-brainer better, if you have the space. Test the light, test for leaks, inspect for scratches that would annoy you and chips that could undermine the structure. 

If its just like 29, but taller, then you have to think about it. More water dilutes the waste, but there are some drawbacks. Higher tanks are more likely to leak, they are harder to clean (try reaching to the bottom, you may need a stool), and light and air have a harder time reaching the bottom. So for live plants, you need stronger light. Extensions on power filter intake tubes are a good idea. You might need a stronger air-pump to get to the bottom (they sell 'deep water' pumps) and extra aeration is a good idea (your sponge filters should do the trick if your pump is strong).

I have a 30 high (like a 15L, but twice as high) and I hate it. I can't touch the bottom while standing on the floor.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

i was iffy because i didnt know about fish diseases and such.i wouldnt use another snakes old house for mine.i mean i could ocd sanitize it buuut....

too bad,they sold it already!!!but theres still tons of em on cl.

i have a 30gl high i just resealed that i traded my gf a 10gl for my emperor scorpion pair that i got right before i adopted the convict. that thing was a drag reaching in the bottom.and im 6'2'' with long arms,ill stay away from those for sure.from watching videos and Doc i think he would appreciate a longer tank anyway.


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## Hansolo (Sep 10, 2010)

Sorry I wasn't here for advice. I have just been busy. Emc7 always has steered me in the right direction. If its not to late, hold off on buying a new tank. If you are anything like the rest of us you probably stumbled on something about as addictive as drugs. You will later on regret not purchasing a larger tank. Craigslist is full of aquarium stuff cheap. I got my 160g with stand for 100$. Not saying you need anything that large. However if you have the room try and hold out for the 55g or a 40g long. My wifes 55g filter is a canister we got new for about 120$ buy I run 1 of my 55s with a cheap hang on back filter with 2 large sponge filters.(spawning/grow out tank) Don't be afraid of some used supplies. Chances ate by the time they give out you will want to upgrade anyway. Check with goodwill before you go buy the rest of your stuff as well. Our goodwill store will have aquarium stuff every time I go there. They are practically giving it away. Used heaters are the only thing I don't use. I know you said you didn't plan on anymore fish than Doc but you probably are going to want to get some sort of bottom feeder/algae eater. Maybe a bristlenose plecostamus or a different variety that stays small. You have about 400 varietys to choose from.

Just a warning on that tank you resealed. If you didn't use aquarium safe silicone don't expect your fish to live. The normal silicone you buy for Windows and kitchens contain tons of deadly chemicals that will leech into your water and kill the fish. If you have any questions about a plecostamus drop me a pm. I breed them and pride myself on my knowledge of them. I think if you have the room though go bigger on that aquarium. If you only have the 1 fish remember that you can get by with a filter that is to small for a while with frequent water changes. It's a little more work on your end now but you will appreciate that larger tank in the end. Best of luck


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## Hansolo (Sep 10, 2010)

Sorry I wasn't here for advice. I have just been busy. Emc7 always has steered me in the right direction. If its not to late, hold off on buying a new tank. If you are anything like the rest of us you probably stumbled on something about as addictive as drugs. You will later on regret not purchasing a larger tank. Craigslist is full of aquarium stuff cheap. I got my 160g with stand for 100$. Not saying you need anything that large. However if you have the room try and hold out for the 55g or a 40g long. My wifes 55g filter is a canister we got new for about 120$ buy I run 1 of my 55s with a cheap hang on back filter with 2 large sponge filters.(spawning/grow out tank) Don't be afraid of some used supplies. Chances ate by the time they give out you will want to upgrade anyway. Check with goodwill before you go buy the rest of your stuff as well. Our goodwill store will have aquarium stuff every time I go there. They are practically giving it away. Used heaters are the only thing I don't use. I know you said you didn't plan on anymore fish than Doc but you probably are going to want to get some sort of bottom feeder/algae eater. Maybe a bristlenose plecostamus or a different variety that stays small. You have about 400 varietys to choose from.

Just a warning on that tank you resealed. If you didn't use aquarium safe silicone don't expect your fish to live. The normal silicone you buy for Windows and kitchens contain tons of deadly chemicals that will leech into your water and kill the fish. If you have any questions about a plecostamus drop me a pm. I breed them and pride myself on my knowledge of them. I think if you have the room though go bigger on that aquarium. If you only have the 1 fish remember that you can get by with a filter that is to small for a while with frequent water changes. It's a little more work on your end now but you will appreciate that larger tank in the end. Best of luck


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Used tanks are usually cleanable with bleach. That should kill most disease. I'm less certain of soft stuff like decor and stuff that would take a week to wash like substrate. Might be better to buy new. They do sometimes need resealing which is a PITA, but doable if you have time and space. For small tanks, pull on the top rim, it often wiggles is the sealant is old and may need resealing. Try to avoid tanks that have been dry for a long times, esp. in a hot place like a garage. Or price in the pain of resealing and give a low offer.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

thanks for joining in there han.
i used this dap silicone sealant
http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=mNztTZH8G5T0tgPz2-24Aw&ved=0CCwQ8wIwAQ#

yeah im going to look into a bigger used tank.i dont have much room to work with i got other animals in my room and a big entertainment center and bed.i do have a space under my ball pythons table available with these measurements 34''l x 22''w x 18h''(i dont wanna go over 18").if i do get a bigger aquarium id have to say goodbye to getting that new false water cobra.but then again you cannot deny the beauty of a well set up aquarium with fishies always swimming about.peaceful.:fish:until Doc attacks them.!

that brings me to another story of this fishes previous home.the girl said she had like 8 other fish in this same 10gl with this convict and she kept finding dead fish until there was one left.hes a killer and hes tasted it.should i be trying to put another fish in a tank with him even if a 55gl?


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

so my limited space brings me to a 30gl breeder or something like this over 18''h.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3804652&lmdn=Fish+Aquariums+&amp;+Bowls

or
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3804450&lmdn=Fish+Aquariums+&amp;+Bowls
i can go over that 34''l as long as the top would fit under these two bars under the snake table.heres a pic to help with understanding the room available.









the scorpions and table would easily be moved to another location in the room.


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## Hansolo (Sep 10, 2010)

It looks to me like that stand will hold a 39g tall at the bottom but I'm not 100% sure. My friend has that same stand and it holds 2 tanks. You will be limited as to what you put in with Doc but I'm pretty sure he would like a Girlfriend. Convicts are easy to sex. Females have red on there bellies where males stay solid grey and black. I'm pretty sure he would tolerate a female in a larger tank. Be prepared for convict fry however. Convicts are very willing breeders and exceptional parents IME. I'm not sure your $$$ situation but you could replace your stand with 1 designed for a 55 and put your fish on top. Then have your snakes and scorpion underneath it all still. If you turn your scorpion tank 90 degrees they might both fit on a 55g stand nicely. Just from experience I always regretted setting up smaller tanks. The entertainment value of fish is better than any other aquarium pet I have ever owned.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

from the underside of the table to the carpet its 40''. i really wouldnt put an aquarium on that table.i dont think its the same as your friends.its made for arts and crafts and i dont think it could handle that much weight..i was gonna put the aquarium on the floor til i could get a stand for the aquarium(funding is limited).im also gonna have to get a smaller entertainment center to put my tv,comp,xbox on.thing is massive and takes up way to much room for just three things. yeah i would love to get Doc a girl and witness the convict parenthood in person.whats the minimum for a convict pair?what would i do with the fry?
oh and currently Docs nitrites are at zero and ammonia keeps coming back and rising. did i reset the cycling process? nitrites to ammonia or is it ammonia to nitrites?
yeah fish are always swimming around and doing sometthing.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Its ammonia to nitrites to nitrates. Before you had nitrites because the nitrite-eaters weren't keeping up with your ammonia-eaters. So nitrite would build up.

Best case, adding the nitromax likely gave you more nitrite-eaters. And all the nitrite being produces is going to nitrate. 

Worst case, adding a huge amount of bacteria to a finite amount of ammonia starved them all, old and new. Now they are dying and making ammonia and there are none left to eat it. The same thing could've happened to the nitrite eaters, but you don't have nitrite because its staying all ammonia.

If this messed-up your cycle, I'll be sorry I told you to try it. You were halfway there. 

There are some products that run the cycle backwards, nitrate to nitrite to ammonia to nitrogen gas. Needless to say, you have to be very careful when using these in a tank with fish. I didn't think nitromax was one of them.

Tell me again how much food the fish gets a day and how much/often you are changing water now.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

i feed him once a day,i stopped beefheart and flakes cause they get a lil messy and i cant find all the uneaten pieces he misses or shreds.i went back to the floating cichlid pellets that he didnt care for but now its his only food and he doesnt pass em up.i drop approx 10 in there,he'll eat a couple and ill scoop the rest out after a couple of minutes. ive been doing partial water changes 30-50% everyday when i get home from work around 5pm.each day at that time the ammonia has risen to 0.6 and the water change makes the ammonia drop dramatically.the water i use is treated for chlorine and chloramine then sits for 24hrs to get it to his tanks water temp.his nitrates are 20ppm.im really concerned cause yesterday i noticed Docs swimming has changed ,hes still active swimming around from spot to spot and looking around but hes sideways and twitches every once and awhile,he doesnt swim like he used to all straight,graceful and precise.im really worried.

and its ok if you suggested trying the nitromax you were only trying to help and i appreciate all your efforts.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you aren't using the amquel+ now, go back to it. "detoxified' ammonia is better. If he scratching against stuff? You can feed more than once a day as long as you keep the amount the same (feed half at night) or less. Feed only what the fish can eat while you watch. That 5 minute rule is bunk. 10 seconds of high quality food is enough for a day. Sounds like your water changes are keeping up, but watch. If you have to choose between Doc going hungry and "unsafe" levels of ammonia and nitrite, let the fish go hungry. 

Does he swim weird all the time or only when he sees you? Could be the 'feed me" dance.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

hahahaha the feed me dance..maybe. but when he hangs out in the log hes still sideways.humm i did have him right next to the entrance of my bedroom door and the night before i walked by and startled him and i heard him bounce off two sides of the tank evading my shadow.his location was moved after the next day.could he have hurt himself and thats why hes a little different?

50% water change and an hour the ammonia didnt change so i went ahead and amqueled the tank and its detoxified. it was probably a wave of starved dead bacteria creating that ammonia wave like you said.nitrites zero ammonia zero.see where tomorrow takes us..the 24th of this month is when i can spend the cash on a bigger tank.hang in there Doc.!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, a startled fish can smash his head on the glass and get a concussion or worse. I've have fish die from this and others that recovered. You could try the 'pea thing' since swimming funny can also be "swim bladder" or bloat type issues.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

hmmh.strange.hes back to his precise movements and hes eating quite gracefully.his ammonias are zero right now.im sure when i get home from work they will have bounced back up.

i really wanna get this guy out of this 10gl ASAP.ive been moving numbers here and there and came to this ,have one bill this week that i could postdate a check for and the rest i cant.so id basicly have enough for a tank.no filter til the 24th(cept for this tiny 10-15glfilter and two spongefilters).im thinking that would be better than this 10gl as i would have to be doing water changes anyway.what say you?


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

oh and i believe the cycling process started over again.im getting a tracer of nitrite! and nevermind Doc is still sittin sideways but have yet to see a twitch. feed him frozen peas cut in half?


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

alright i would only be able to afford that 29gl this week if i did that.buut i would rather get the 40gl on the 24.should i get the filter first and run it with this tank til then or would it be too much filter and current for a lil 10gl? this would be the filter i was looking at for the 40 and 29. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752390&lmdn=Brand
what do you think i should do get and run filter this weekend or settle for the 29 without filter til 24th?something needs to be done.his health is at stake and our water bill im sure is just shooting up by these everyday water changes.
there is no nitrite today now but ammonia back to 0.6.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I can't see that link. Extra water volume is good, even with undersized filters. It should triple the time to 'unsafe' levels. Even the best new filter won't be 'cycled' and will have the same issues out of the box. Essential is tank, water, air, heater only if the room gets cold, cover for a jumping fish, but "press and seal" from glad will do in a pinch.

Cut back to just a few pellets a day or even every other day if you are seeing numbers out of the 'safe' range.

Take a few frozen peas, cook them in a little dish of water in the microwave. Smash them and take the skin off and give him pieces.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

that is true about the filter being the same problem.the link was to a 75gl marineland penguin biowheel filter..sooo either a 29gl this weekend or a 40gl in two weeks(unless i find somethng on cL or goodwill)?
does this fish get lonely?does he need a partner?


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

woohoo managed to work with the bills and i could grab that 40gl this week (new)and plus another dual sponge filter,gang valve air pump going on.the pump still would have to come later though.

is 40gl enough for a male and female convict? what would i do with the babies when the time comes to seperate them?? will they constantly breed giving me the trouble of finding new homes for em all?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

In the wild, they'd breed only once a year. Even that will give you too many babies to find homes for. You can take them to fish club, LFS, and post them on CL, but unloading one batch takes a while. It will be plenty big enough if they get along. If they are out to kill each other, no tank will be.


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## Hansolo (Sep 10, 2010)

I was able to find a LFS that takes all my south Americans and plecos. I was lucky. You might ask around and do the same thing.


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## DocHoliday (May 29, 2011)

hmm doesnt sound too bad..i found a 55gl aquarium and stand,gravel,fake plants,watere filter,and air pump on cl for $150.the guy said it has no leaks and he'll keep it filled for example tomorrow when i pick it up..
this raises a some questions.

1how do i sanitize the tank 10/90 bleach to water mix?
2could i use the used filter,gravel,plants and decor if so how do i sanitize em?
3Doc is turning even more sideways and growing more lethargic,but when theres food he races to it and eats just fine.when i look at him straigt on one of his eyes appears more visible than the other.is he dying?8(


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