# Newbie



## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

:fish: hello

i am trying to hook up an aquarium next month. But i am so new to this and i have done alot of reading up but i still have a few questions if anyone can help me out. I basically want beginner fish easy fish but nice ones. I know they say the school fish are good for beginners. I am interested in the neon tetras and are fancy fish school fish dont remember? Can you put 2 schools together? Im looking at getting a 20 gallon tank. How many fish would you say make a school? How many could i get of each that would be good for that sized tank with out over stocking? Any other type of fish that would go good with them? Also I've read about having to change the water temp, or level or something of that sort once a week? whats that and how do you do it? Also are snails good to have? I had a problem before last time i had fish they all died slowly they kept getting stuck in the filter? why is that i had neon fish and another school of fish dont remember the name it was so long ago and i had the small little cat fish looking fish their white and dwell on the bottom but thanks for all the info!!


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## jaws (Nov 7, 2007)

when you had your tank befor how long did you leave it running befor adding fish?
what are the dimensions of your tank in cm?
what sort of a filter did you ave before?
90% of fish are easy to keep once tank is set up correctly
if you want snails have a golden apple as it wont over run your tank with off spring
a school of fish could be any number and tetras are community fish they will live peacfully with each other hence "community"


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

koolaidsmiiles said:


> :fish: hello
> 
> i am trying to hook up an aquarium next month. But i am so new to this and i have done alot of reading up but i still have a few questions if anyone can help me out. I basically want beginner fish easy fish but nice ones. I know they say the school fish are good for beginners. I am interested in the neon tetras and are fancy fish school fish dont remember?


Tetras are good for beginners. If you can find healthy Neons, they would be good. Lately though, people have been having issues with getting poor stock Neons.
By fancy fish do you mean Goldfish? Like fancy goldfish? If so, they are not schooling fish. Also, the can get pretty big and are a high waste producing fish (poop a lot), so you would be limited to 1 fancy Goldfish in a 20g. Or possibly fancy Guppies? They aren't necessarily schooling I don't think, but they enjoy the company of their own.



> Can you put 2 schools together?


Yes, if the tank is large enough.



> Im looking at getting a 20 gallon tank. How many fish would you say make a school? How many could i get of each that would be good for that sized tank with out over stocking? Any other type of fish that would go good with them?


That is a good size tank to start out with.  For a 20g (assuming you get the "regular" version that is 24" long), 1 or 2 schools of fish would be fine, depending on what you choose. Obviously, some fish grow larger than other, but if you stick to small fish, you have room for 2 types. I personally think a school should be a minimum of 6 fish. Other people have their minimum's as well. The more the merrier. For a 20g, if you went with Neons and maybe another small schooler, you could have 6 of each. As for tankmates, small Corydoras catfish would be fine (look for Corydoras trilineatus or Corydoras panda). Those 2 species only get around 2 inches and are usually pretty common.



> Also I've read about having to change the water temp, or level or something of that sort once a week? whats that and how do you do it?


You need to do regular tank maintenance which includes changing out water every week. The fish poop (ammonia) and the good bacteria built up in the tank from the cycle will convert it to nitrates. The only way to get rid of excess nitrates is by changing out water. Its usually recommended to change out 30-50% every week. You would do this with a siphon. They usually sell them at pet/fish stores and they are relatively cheap. When you change out the water, you'll want to vaccuum the gravel to get the poop and excess food out. You'll need a bucket to siphon the water into.



> Also are snails good to have?


Snails are fine if you like them.



> I had a problem before last time i had fish they all died slowly they kept getting stuck in the filter?


Most likely, the fish were sick or died and then got stuck to the filter. Healthy fish should be strong enough not to get stuck to the filter intake, unless you have a super-powerful filter (not very likely). 

Do you know about the Nitrogen Cycle?
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Cycle.htm
http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/cycling.php

If not, read over those articles so you'll understand whats going on in the tank when you first set it up.


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## jaws (Nov 7, 2007)

when setting up a new aquarium i always leave it running for a month i use a bio filter kick start to get my tank running properly and add some hardy plants try some java moss the main problem with starting up new aquariums is that ammonia nitrite and nitrate level can fluctuate these are all very harmfull "fatal" to fish you should make sure these areas close to zero as possible "buy a test kit" once you are happy they are stable you can add some fish dont go mad because your troubles may not be over test your water regularly say every 1-2 days for the first couple of weeks then graduating down to once a week just be patient if they start to rise then do a 20-25% water change make sure every time you add water to you tank you use a tap water conditioner adding only as much is advised i like to do this in a bucket most buckets tell you how much they hold and i warm the water to near the same temp as the tank once you tank is astablished then you shouldnt have a problem with any of these nasties if you do regular water changes say every two weeks 25% wash you filter sponges in aquarium water in a bucket never in tap water you can buy a syphon to suck the water out of you tank and clean the gravel


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Jaws, could you use some punctuation please? Its hard to read your posts....

I agree with most of what you said. 

Just wanted to add that when you are Cycling the tank, if you choose the fishless route, you will need some type of ammonia source, whether it be pure ammonia or a raw shrimp (from the grocery).

The tank won't cycle without an ammonia source.

Ammonia and nitrites should be 0 in a cycled tank. Most people try to keep nitrAtes less than 20-30ppm. They are not deadly to fish at those levels.

Definitely buy a test kit, as jaws mentioned. I recommend the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master kit for FW. Whatever you get, make sure you have tests for ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte. Liquid tests are alot more accurate than strips.


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

i think it was like a 5 or 10 gallon it was small it was like this

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+9885&pcatid=9885

now that i look @ it i think it was a 5 gallon. Um as far as the filter i dont really know like i said it was along time ago but um..i dont recall letting the filter run before i put them in there if anything like 15 minutes. But what could be some reasons for that happening them getting stuck in the filter? and about doing something with the water once a week? so they can be with 2 or 3 schools together?


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## jaws (Nov 7, 2007)

approximate stocking levels for tropical fish

surface dimension in cm....up to 5cm..5-7.5....7.5-10cm

45*25..............................14.............10.............0
60*30..............................22.............16............14
90*30..............................33.............24............21
120*30.............................44..............32............29
150*45.............................83..............80............54


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Most likely they were sick with some illness and weak before they got stuck to the filter. Or they could have died and then got stuck to the filter. I doubt they were healthy and live. 

Regardless of how many fish are in the tank, you should change out water weekly....atleast 20 or 30%.

A 5g is too small for Neon tetras. If you want to try them again, I suggest getting atleast a 20g.


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## jaws (Nov 7, 2007)

sorry about punctuation,get carried away.
15 minutes is defenatly not enough time.


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

wow you guys know alot thanks alot..im just a little confused on changing the water weekly..can you explain how you do that exactly step for step. I know i def have to get the test kit and yes im definitly going with the 20 gallon. and whats a siphon? Thankss alot guys!


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

P.S. so how long should it run for before i put em in?


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

Oh yeah and i meant fancy guppies lol these

http://www.grizzlyrun.com/Files/Images/Image_Gallery/fancy_guppy.jpg


and the Corydoras yeah thats the one i had he kinda looked like a mini cat fish lol but he was all white..and can you put those together with snails?


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Tetras are good for beginners. If you can find healthy Neons, they would be good. Lately though, people have been having issues with getting poor stock Neons.
> By fancy fish do you mean Goldfish? Like fancy goldfish? If so, they are not schooling fish. Also, the can get pretty big and are a high waste producing fish (poop a lot), so you would be limited to 1 fancy Goldfish in a 20g. Or possibly fancy Guppies? They aren't necessarily schooling I don't think, but they enjoy the company of their own.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

This is an example of a siphon: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18377/si1381836/cl0/bigalsprocleangravelwashermedium.

The bigger end goes in the tank....the smaller end goes in the bucket. It will suck the water into the bucket. You will have to start a siphon (pulling water from the tank to the bucket) by putting the whole thing under water and letting it fill up. Another option is to just suck on the end that goes into the bucket and along with gravity, it will start flowing into the bucket. Alot of people are grossed out by that though.  If you move your mouth in time, you will not get water in your mouth.
The larger end can be pushed into gravel in the tank and will suck up any poop, debri, or food that has settled into it.

Another option, would be a similar device, but this one hooks into your sink/faucet and the water pressure pulls the water into the sink. Then you pull a valve and you can also refill the tank (with clean water). http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3728+3910&pcatid=3910.
It can be expensive at some pet store, but well worth it IMO, since you don't have to carry buckets. Just add in dechlorinator as you fill the tank up and you are done.

After you set the tank up, you could put fish in right away, but I would only put in a few. The tank will be going through a cycle for 4-6 weeks (look at the sites I gave you in an above post). During that time, ammonia and nitrItes will be rising and they are harmful to fish, so you'll need to do frequent water changes to lower them. This type of cycling can be hard on the fish, but if you are willing to do the water changes, you could go this route.
Another method is fishless cycling where you add pure ammonia (bought from a grocery store, or hardware store) or a raw shrimp (like from the seafood dept at the grocery store). You will track the ammonia and nitrItes during this time and when the reach 0 and you have measurable nitrAtes, you can add fish (usually takes about 4 weeks).

Yes, the cories can go with snails. The type you had sound like Albino cories which are Corydoras aeneus. While they are said to get around 3", it takes awhile for them to reach this size. They should be fine in a 20g for quite sometime. Maybe when they start getting larger you will have an even bigger tank. 

Yes, if you choose something small, like Neon Tetra size, you can have 2 school of 6 each.
I personally like the look of one large school, but others may not.

If you were to choose the Guppies and the Neons, I'd get 8 Neons and maybe 4 Guppies. They don't need to be in groups as big as schooling fish. Make sure you get a good male to female ratio for the Guppies. I suggest 1 male to 2-3 females. So if you get 4, get 1 male and 3 females. For the cories, they are also schooling, so get atleast 6.

In a 20g, here is what I suggest:
6-8 Neons
4-5 Guppies or Platies
6 Cories

If you get 8 Neons, then go with the lower number of Guppies. If you get 6, then 5 Guppies would be good.

If you choose this stocking (Neons, Guppies, Cories), I strongly suggest going the fishless cycling method. None of them are very hardy fish and chances are that the water changes needed for a fishy cycle will get old after awhile (you will get tired of them). 

Fishless Cycling
Another article on Fishless Cycling


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

ok i see wow its a long process. so im going with the 2nd option you gave me with the one that attaches to the sink. As im doing this i take out how much water? cause i've seen some ppl say 20,30 or 50% of the water. What are the ammonia and nitrItes suppose to be? does it say it on the tester? Is there any filter you recommend? How long should the filter run before i put them in? Do i need a heater or anything? what should the water temperature be? and about the fancy guppies, you said 1 male 3 females right, how can you tell? lol the people at the pet store keep them all together or seperate? im gonna go for the 6 neons 5 guppies and the 6 corys so if im getting 5 guppies i should get 2 males 3 females or 4 females? thanks so much your so helpful!


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

Question if i go with the fishless method, how many raw shrimp do i have to put in? and i would do it like if i had real fish right? check up on the water ammonia and nitrItes once a week for the next 4 weeks or twice a week? Do i changed and put new shrimp every week? and basically clean the gravel and all that like i would if i had live fish? thanks again


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

koolaidsmiiles said:


> ok i see wow its a long process. so im going with the 2nd option you gave me with the one that attaches to the sink.


Excellent choice. If you buy stuff online, it will most likely be cheaper to buy from the site I linked to or Petsmart.com than in the stores.



> As im doing this i take out how much water? cause i've seen some ppl say 20,30 or 50% of the water.


Its up to you......I just suggest atleast 20%. To me, its easier to take out 30 or 50% because thats like 1/3 or 1/2 of the tank (easier for me to visualize). Its really guessing though....and you don't have to be exact, as long as you are changing out some of the water weekly.



> What are the ammonia and nitrItes suppose to be? does it say it on the tester?


Once your tank has been cycled (the 4-6 week thing), then the ammonia and nitrItes should be 0 and the nitrAtes can be around 40ppm and under. The test kit will probably have it listed on there as well. While the tank is cycling, you will see an ammonia and nitrIte spike, meaning it will start increasing and then decreasing......there is no set number during this time. If you have fish in the tank, you will want it as low as you can get it. It will be hard to watch for the spikes when you are cycling with fish, since you will be affecting the levels with water changes (for the fish's sake).



> Is there any filter you recommend? How long should the filter run before i put them in?


Most beginners like the filters that hang on the back of the tank and kind of have a waterfall like output. We shorten those HOBs (hang on back's). They are fairly inexpensive (especially for smaller tanks). Aquaclear and Marineland are popular brands. 

With either cycling method you choose, you'll want the filter running. If you choose fishy cycling, you could put the fish in right after turning the filter on.



> Do i need a heater or anything? what should the water temperature be?


Yes, you'll need a heater. The fish you are looking at are tropical, so like their water temperature in the mid 70s to 80s. I would try to keep it around 76F or so. I recommend getting a heater that you can set, like a Visi-therm brand heater. For a 20g, a 100 watt heater will work nicely.



> and about the fancy guppies, you said 1 male 3 females right, how can you tell? lol the people at the pet store keep them all together or seperate?


Female guppies are not very pretty. Males are alot prettier than females and usually have longer tails. The store employees _should_ be able to tell. The store will most likely keep them separate (from my own experience) but you never know. Guppies are livebearers, which means they are very easy to breed and all you need is a male and female. So, that would be a reason to keep them separate in the stores......guppy fry make good fish treats though, so who knows.



> im gonna go for the 6 neons 5 guppies and the 6 corys so if im getting 5 guppies i should get 2 males 3 females or 4 females? thanks so much your so helpful!


I would go with 3 females. That should be enough to keep the males from focusing on one......and it will lessen the chances of your tank being overrun with babies.


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

lol thanks so much your so much help, so omg what do i do with the babies? lol can i give them to store if anything can i have all males or all females (guppies) and how about neons?


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Off Topic:
Kristin, you missed your calling. Forget nursing, you should be a teacher. lol


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## koolaidsmiiles (Nov 9, 2007)

Question do you have to do that cycling with all fish or only tropical?


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## oliesminis (May 7, 2007)

you should do it with all tanks as all tanks run in a similar princable 

going to put my opinion in and recomend getting a different tetra to the neon as i havent heard a posative thing about them for a while

there are a lot of other tetras which would be okay but who knows your lfs could have good ones just just suggesting caution


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