# just starting out, few questions



## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

*just starting out, few questions (pic)*

hi, just purchased a tank i thought it would be much easier with a large tank, but i was wrong lol

anyway, its a 10g started kit, with hood, bio fiber filter, food, and water conditioner. 

instead of gravel, i will be using river rocks, the nice rounded stones, i think its easier to maintain with the larger stones, wont suck any up when syphoning. 

anyway, for decor, i have some actual coral from mexico, and sea shells, and will use some fake plants and get 1 or 2 real plants. tried buying some nice pirate ships and stuff, but it cost as much as the entire kit!!! 

for now 
is there anything in terms of prep for the stones? just rinse them? or boil them to dissinfect them or anything? same for the coral, how can i prep that since it was salt water coral, 

also in the past i used filtered water for my 1g tank, would that help in eliminating some of the chlorine? using filtered water. 

im sure i'll have more questions once i prep the tank for water. and the whole cycling procedure. still have to get test kits. and pick out fish, but this will be a while still
thx


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## cucci67 (Aug 3, 2005)

I am almost 100% sure that you can not put shells into a Fresh Water tank. I do not know if/how the coral can go in, you might have to look that up yourself. I would boil the stones, you can wither put them in a pot on a stove, use instant hot water, of put them in a pot full of water in the oven for a bit. I would let them sit in the water for atleast 10 minutes.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

ive started cleaning the river rocks, just dumped them into a plastic container and poured boiling water in, agitated left for a bit, and repeated 3 times, still gonna do it again, water still pours out a little cloudy

next are my old plastic plants, only 2 though rest will be real, large sea shell, had this with my fish before, they seemed to really like it, nice hiding place for them. 

after i finish the prep with the rocks and plants, whats next? i think i may need a water heater, temps in room are 19-20c (70-73f), any nice fresh water fish that like 70-75f? 

anyway, fill it up with water and water conditioner? let it run for 24-48 hours? buy tester and check ph, amonia, nitrate? level, this is where i get confused why cant i just plop the fish in right after conditioner?


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## darkfalz (May 7, 2006)

Gravel is fine, you can't really pick it up very far with a gravel vac (which has a thing in it blocking gravel going down the main thing anyway). If you have stones there will be gaps between that waste can fall through, and will be much harder to siphon that out.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Shells and coral are ok in freshwater, but they raise your hardness, which is bad if you keep softwater fish like rams or neons. i don't think 1 shell will make much of a difference. Some water filters take out chlorine and minerals (which give the water hardness and are useful for fish and plant), most of us use tap water. You want to pick one water source (or blend) and stick with it so the ph, etc, will be consistent. The delay is mainly to get things stablilize (temp, etc), let the dust settle, the bubbles rise, and make sure everything works and nothing leaks. You can wask the rocks in the sink until the water is clear, and then finish with a boiling rinse. I recommend a 100W heater, it won't run all the time and will help if your fish ever get ich.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests are important ones for cycling a tank. The importance of pH, dH & kH (hardness) depends on the fish you keep and whether you buffer the water (because of the fish you keep). You could prob. get away with having the LFS test your water a few times and if you water changes are consistent, pH and hardness may stay steady. Hardness and pH should suit the fish you keep and be kept steady. pH test are cheap and easy and included in most multi-test kits, so you might as get one, but you don't need ot micromanage pH esp. during cycling. Do not let the LFS sell you pH up and pH down. Do not buy "Cycle'. Stablity and Bio-spira are the only cycling products that work. A water conditioner like Prime or Amquel+ that 'detoxifies' ammonia and nitrite without removing it from the water will help your fish survive cycling, Or try fishless cycling, it means going without fish a few more weeks, but you won't kill any during cycling.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

cool. yeah i have a lot of gravel, but im tired of using it i used to syphon it using just a rubber tube, lol. thats why it always for stuck, and i want the bigger holes in the stones so that i can just use a bigger hose to syphone, it will be easier for me to clean that way, no need to buy the vac. 

have to stones all cleaned, i may have one sea shell in, with a brian coral. 2 fake plants for now, and while it cycles, will get some more stuff, 

here is how it looks so far 
will be filling it soon, i'll use tap water i guess, and help it with conditioner, 

do i have too many stones? should the layer be a little thinner? 



after filling, i will run the pump for maybe a week till i get my live plants, heater, and ornament give it time to cycle, and time to select my fish


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## darkfalz (May 7, 2006)

My vac cost me $5, I couldn't live without it.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

> after filling, i will run the pump for maybe a week...give it time to cycle


You have to add some type of ammonia source for the tank to cycle. This could be pure ammonia (no additives or surfactants) that you can get at a grocery store or some hardy fish. The pure ammonia way is known as fishless cycling. You need ammonia to build up the good bacteria and make the take cycled.

When you are choosing fish, remember a 10g is relatively small, so stocking is limited. You should go browse your LFS and then let us know what types of fish interest you. Then we can tell you if they will work or not. Many beginners make the mistake of buying fish that get too big for their tanks. Then they are told to take the back or give them away and they don't want to because they are attached to the fish. We would like to prevent that from happening by advising you on fish you are interested in...that will make sure the fish you select will have an appropriate home.

I like the river rocks. They look nice. But, you mentioned having live plants. That type of substrate (gravel, rocks, etc...) won't work for live plants. You should have small 2-3mm size gravel or sand to grow live plants. The rocks are too heavy and will compact the roots, which will kill the plants. Also, food and waste will get trapped in between the rocks, which will turn to anaerobic pockets and could kill plants. It seems to me that it will be hard to clean under those rocks. I suggest you stick with fake plants, unless you want to change out the substrate.

The decorations are all up to you, but I'll give you my 2 cents. I think sea shells and coral and such look strange in a freshwater tank. Bodies of freshwater don't normally have shells and coral, so I don't put them in my tanks. They look out of place. But, like I said, its entirely up to you.

Oh, and if you don't have one already, I'd pick up a good test kit. Get the liquid kinds...they are more accurate. Make sure you get one for nitrAte, nitrIte, and ammonia to keep track of the cycle. pH is also a good one to have. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes a good master test kit that includes all the tests listed above. It is relatively cheap also.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

lol, i didn't realize how cheap they are, oh well, 
all those rocks cost me $7 for 8 bags lol, 

depending on how this goes i may end up using my 1g tank as well for something, maybe a second betta so i can use my gravel for that.

ammonia? i was told that if i introduce a plant in before the fish and let it cycle for a few days, it will help or get that additive. 

as for plant, 

i may just leave the plant in a little cup that they come in and hide it behind an ornament. 

as for fish, not sure yet, i've been doing some reading on the forum, 
im thinking of a Betta and a few others that get along with them, cant remember the names now, but its from a post here in the betta section.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

here are some websites on the nitrogen cycle:

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling.htm
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/Cycling.html


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

you can put a plant in a little clay pot with a peat pellet and a little gravel to hold the peat in and surround it with rocks. The rocks look really cool. Keep us posted on how easy it is to maintain. Cycling a tank is a pain, but once its done, its so much easier to change 1/3 of the water once a week than 100% twice a week.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

you can put a plant in a little clay pot with a peat pellet and a little gravel to hold the peat in and surround it with rocks. The rocks look really cool. Keep us posted on how easy it is to maintain. Cycling a tank is a pain, but once its done, its so much easier to change 1/3 of the water once a week than 100% twice a week.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Not many kinds of plants will last a week in that setup, so stick with plastic ones.

By the way, I have a tank that looks almost just like yours. Same rocks & everything. Only the background is different. I use it to spawn Barbs, since the eggs fall so easily between the rocks.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

> ammonia? i was told that if i introduce a plant in before the fish and let it cycle for a few days, it will help or get that additive.


Nope, someone told you wrong. Plants don't make ammonia. They will usually take in a little ammonia, making it less harsh for fish (if you add any) during the cycle. You still need an ammonia source though. I would decide if you want to go fishless or fishful. If you can find some Bio-Spira, it is bacteria in a bag and jump starts the cycle. It will be refrigerated and may be hard to find in LFS. You have to add fish with it though. It is supposedly an "instant" cycle.

Here are some fishless cycling sites:
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-fishless-cycling.htm
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php

You could get some Anubias and Java fern plants. They are not buried in substrate, but tied to rocks or driftwood. If they will sink, you can just set them on top of the rocks. They would be great for your setup and besides planting plants in a pot, would be the only good choices. They also do well in low light.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

yeah i regret going with the river stones now, hard to makes things stick, ie shell, 

i went with them becaues i thought i would have a different filtration system for a different tank, the one with the big tray under the gravel, which is why rocks would be better at letting the crap through but the kit came with the other filter, i still have a bunch of gravel but i'll try it out for now

i may get 1 or 2 snails if no plants, 

as for fish, here are my choices from a local fish store 
1 betta is a must or 2 Gourami, but not both, heard they can get into fights.

-rasbora
-small tetras- neon, painted, glass, cardinal or rosy 
-mollies- black and gold.
-and platies 
-1 or 2 cleaning fish

which ones should i go with, i want them to be nice and colorful, i would like my tank to have variaty, so how whts the best choice and how many? 


also thanks for all the help!!!


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## cucci67 (Aug 3, 2005)

2 gouramis will be cramped in that tank, same with mollies as they get to be 3-4". Here's what I think:

1 betta
3 platies (1m,2f)
4 small cories (i.e. panda)


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

k, so 1 betta, 

one friend is gonna give me 2 fish as well, not sure what kind gotta find out, 

rather have tetra's over cories, more variety and more coloful selection at LFS. 


also just filled the tank, letting it run for a bit, is it normal to have the walls and rocks almost completely covered with little air bubbles?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> is it normal to have the walls and rocks almost completely covered with little air bubbles


 Yes, foam on ther surface isn't normal, but tap water has lots of little air bubbles in it that collect together on everything, they should go away on their own.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

quick question i just found some additional gravel, 

personal opinion, i have enough to swap the river rocks for gravel. 

should i go for it make it look more exotic rather then an actual river bed with the rocks

the river rocks will be as big as the fish im getting lol. 

so go for the swap? many of you have said gravel is easier to maintain as well.


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

i would say that a the switch would be a good idea. it will be a lot easier to clean and you will be able to have some live plants. If your going to change the substrate do it soon because its a lot harder to do once you have it filled and put the fish in.


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## cucci67 (Aug 3, 2005)

Yeah, change it to gravel. Much easier to maintain.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

here is what i have now 

first setup 


final setup 


friend wanted to give me 2 convicts, but dont thing they will be very friendly to my betta:fish:


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2006)

Convicts will get too large, so good job on passing on them.

I think a good setup for a 10g is:

1 male betta
6-8 harlequin rasboras
2 ottos (if any algae develops) or 4-6 pygmy cories

Make sure the cories are the pygmy or habrosus (also known as salt and pepper) cories, because they are the smallest types.

Looks good. You'll like the smaller gravel alot better. Its easier to clean and waste won't get stuck between the rocks.


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

much better! i like the way it looks now, especially that ornament you have on the left, what is that?


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## Sprite42 (Mar 10, 2006)

Yep, I like the look of the gravel better, too! If you are set on the betta, introduce him last. That way anything else in the tank will just be part of the territory. Some bettas are not compatible with anything, no matter when you put him in. It would be a good idea to have alternative housing for him.

I agree with the rasboras, six or eight make a really nice display. You could also add some kuhli loaches, 2 or 3. THey are good bottom guys and are not hard on the bioload.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

yeah the ornament is just a fake log with some shrubs and shells, cost me only $20cdn, cheapest large ornament i could find lol. PETSMART is the best for this, better/cheaper then walmart for accessories. 

yeah, betta will be last since its kinda my main fish and i want the tank to be well established first

k, ive ran the tank since about wednesday or tuesday, 

water is just a little cloudy i think, maybe a little die off the stones came off still, dont know,

want to get fish today, should i do a partial water change before? or just plop the cories or whatever else i get in? dont have a test kit, to expensive! at least $40cdn for a complete kit, and cant find the little kits with the all in one paper strip tests

also friend gave me a vacume, but its the one that hooks up to the tap! lol, gotta get that T valve for it though, should make my life easier. hes got awsome tanks though!, , 1 is 105g with 3 oscars, 2convicts, and some other little guys, and a 70g with convicts. massive filters!!! though and way to much$$$$


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2006)

Check Big Al's for the test kit. I'm not sure how much the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master kit is in Canadian dollars...but its only about $15 US. Go to http://www.bigalsonline.com. A test kit will help alot. When you first add fish to the tank, ammonia will start to rise, then nitrites, then nitrates. You should track this to see where you are in the cycle.

Liquid tests are better...the paper ones aren't very accurate.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

went to big als today, cool store!, 
i got a bio starter, but the test strips 5in1 are still expensive, i'll pass on those for now, when i get bigger tank i probably need those alot more. 

fish selection

-betta, will go in first, big als said they are better at new tanks then tetras and should go in first. 

-5-8 small neon tetras. they said i should wait a few weeks for these since they are not very good with new tanks

Cleaner: maybe 1 otto as my last fish

-maybe: what about swordtails? if i get 2 of those? would they get along with betta or do they nip? 

if no sword tails, i may just get 2 panda cories, but are they also cleaner fish or no? dont want them if i get an otto.


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## vinimack720 (Apr 20, 2006)

some one correct me if im wrong here, but the ottos are mainly algae eaters and the cories scavenge food from the gravel, so they would not really bother each other. but i think panda cories are a schooling fish and like to be in a group of 6 or more.


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## LS70 (Jun 3, 2006)

cool otto it is, but thats in a few weeks 

just got my betta! nice fish, red, no torn up fins or anything, gonna start posting in the betta forum now, fish seems a little wierd, its like if it stops moving its fins, it get shot up to the surface, or across the tank lol, seems like a big current in my tank or something, 

gonna be getting more fish in a week or 2 

anyway, thanks for all the help everyone.


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