# I Need Some Help



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm having a couple of issues with my aquarium and i'm not sure what else to do. I've had a pretty hard time getting my tank up and running without issues and it is still not right.
At this point i have 2 neon tetra's and 2 guppies in my 10 gallon aquarium. I know that neon tetra's are schooling fish and i took that into consideration when i bought the fish. I had 8 neons and 2 guppies awhile ago, but the neons slowly died one at a time. I also recently had a guppy die, which i replaced. So i now only have 2 neons left, both of which seem to be doing fine.
The guppies are my current concern. The one guppy has been sick for probably around a week. The guppy is always at the surface of the water, and he doesn't move very often. I also noted that the colours of his gills are not right, although maybe they were always like that and i just never noticed them. Because of his symptoms i thought he might have some sort of bacterial infect (gill disease being the one i decided it probably was) and i began treating my aqaurium with maracyn-2 3 days ago. However he doesn't seem to be getting any better and i'm concerned. The recently replaced guppy is showing similar symptoms without the discoloured gills.
I'm really not sure what else to do, as i do regular water changes, and the aquarium has been up and running for at least 2 months so it should be well cycled. Could somebody give me any advice? Am i doing something wrong or am i just not having any luck? 
Thanks in advance,
Direlime


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Just an extra note, my neon tetras are showing no sign of stress an are actually thriving in the aquarium, this is why I'm so puzzled.
P.S. I apologize fore double posting


----------



## hXcChic22 (Dec 26, 2009)

Are the guppy's gills red at all? If they are, it could mean you have too high levels of ammonia on the tank, which "burns" them. 

My best advice would be to NOT buy any more fish. If your fish die, don't replace them. It sounds like your tank is not cycled, or your water could just be not good for the fish (too high/low PH, too hard/soft, etc.) Read up on this article on cycling and follow the instructions for cycling WITH fish (or without them if your fish die) and see if things improve. http://www.fishforums.com/forum/beg...posting-if-your-fish-dying-your-new-tank.html


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok I see what your getting at. Although aquarium has been running for 2 months at least now, but it does sound like that fits my problem. To unsure the survival of my fish should I just do daily (small) water changes? I also have a product called "Prime" that is supposed to help with ammonia/nitrates/nitrites. Is it safe to use in my aquarium? Thanks so much for your help, I greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Don't add the Prime yet. Buy a test kit, or at least the test strips. Test all the chemicals in your tank. Also, test your tap water. Have you added chemicals to remove the Chlorine and harmful metals from your tap water? Also, if your tap water is hard or has a high Ph it could kill your fish. If that's the case, you can buy chemicals to level your Ph down to 7.0 which around what you need for a community tank.

If you test clear, and all the levels are safe, then add the Prime just as a safeguard.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can add extra aeration. A fish with gill trouble will need extra oxygen in the water. Are you still medicating? Prime is great for dealing with a 'cycling tank' or ammonia or nitrite spikes, but it will decrease the oxygen in the water when you first add it and it can mess up test kit readings. So take sample before use. Use it your in new water, but don't OD (A 4x normal dose for "emergency" problems is on that label") it if you are medicating since that also reduces oxygen. Take some water to get tested. 2 months may be about right for a lot of nitrites. But there could be some sort of gill-disease. Or you could have fish with "burned gills" that won't recover even though that bad water conditions are long gone.

A lot of people have had bad luck with guppies lately, but you can't know its not your fault unless you know your water is good. If you didn't have neons, I'd tell you to salt the water. Guppies like hard, salty water. Neons like soft, acid water. Not the best mix.


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm going to a pet store tonight, because i know all of the stores in town will do a free water test for me. Yes, i have been adding water conditioner to remove chlorine. And i am also still medicating with maracyn-2. I'm almost through the cycle, tomorrow being the last day. And oxygen should not be a problem at all because my mechanical filter should provide aeration, and i also have an airstone bubbling in my aquarium as well.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> to level your Ph down to 7.0 which around what you need for a community tank.


 I'm going to dispute this. I think this is one of the worst myths spun by pet stores. That you can get pH 7 and all "community" fish will be happy together. More like equally miserable. 

Yes, a sudden pH change can kill fish. If you water is consistent, you do slowly increasing water changes until you tank water is similar to your tap water and then you can do enough water changes of whatever size you need to keep the water clean. Clean water is of the first importance. "perfect pH" water full of ammonia is just as deadly.

I would like to see anyone who's considering a 'community' tank get their water tested first. Pick fish that like your water. Ideally, you'd match it closely. But just sorting fish into soft, acid water fish; hard, alkaline water fish, and soft, alkaline water fish (I've never seen hard, acid water) is good enough. You still have 1/3 of the fish in the world to choose from, you don't have to spend money and time altering your water chemistry and no fish will be stressed and miserable just from the water chemistry.


----------



## DevinsFish (Oct 24, 2010)

emc7 said:


> A lot of people have had bad luck with guppies lately, but you can't know its not your fault unless you know your water is good. If you didn't have neons, I'd tell you to salt the water. Guppies like hard, salty water. Neons like soft, acid water. Not the best mix.


I know this may get some negative feedback, however; this is just my personal opinion. I have never heard of ANYONE having good luck with guppies EVER. I recently have decided they are more like Brine Shrimp in the fact that they are a better source of fish food rather than tank residents. Yes, they are pretty, but if it's easier to keep a Discus than a Guppy, what's the point? I would say get rid of the Guppies and pick something equally as appealing to you.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I had great luck with guppies 20 years ago. I had a nice strain, healthy, bred true with only an occasional crooked spine. My water was off-the-scale hard. I've blamed the troubles I've had since I've moved on my soft water. The fish did well until I forgot to buffer. But it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a number of med-resistant diseases in the modern fish distribution systems were particularly hard on guppies. 

My best advice, get healthy virgin fish from a breeder directly. QT them, keep them alone (don't mix with pet store fish), and keep them in "Lake Malawi" water. Use enough cichlid, sea, or aquarium salt to get to about 200 ppm TDS. Keep the pH > 7, preferable > 7.5.

I actually agree with the "try something else" advice. If you've repeatedly killed the same type of fish from different sources, it makes sense to give up. Maybe something in your water isn't suitable or there may be a disease in your home (tank, nets, other fish, filters, air, water supply, even people) that keeps reinfecting your fish, maybe all of the fish you can get are sick or mistreated. If you can't figure it out in a year, take a break from that fish. Get something "completely different" and maybe go back in decade if your still stuck on the fish. By then, something could've changed.


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Update:: I got my water tested and i discovered that it was in fact the ammonia level in my aquarium. The guy at the pet store recommended that i do a 30% water change, and i did so the minute i got home. My guppies seem to be doing much much better. I greatly appreciate your time, and thank you again.
I will keep you guys posted,
Direlime


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

One of the issues with meds is that they can kill your filter bacteria or you do it yourself when you take out the carbon. Treat it like a new tank, watch the water quality. If it smells funny or the fish act a little bit strange, do a big water change (maybe 50%) and use a double dose of Prime. Cut back on feeding for a few weeks also.


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok, will do. Although i have one problem. The one guppy i was concerned about, although he is doing better, still isn't eating. It's been about a week now, and he is getting very skinny. Is this normal with ammonia poisoning? Or is this an indication of something more serious? And i will make sure to keep watching, because when i began medication i had to take out the carbon filter media(I still have a sponge like filter for mechanical waste). So i guess that's a bit of a double whammy, although i've heard maracyn-2 usually doesn't harm beneficial bacteria. Is that true?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

They aren't supposed to, but you don't know what species of bacteria are living in your filter so any "anti-biotic" has some risk. Add to that the fact that a big chunk of your filter bacteria were living in the carbon, and the tank was fairly new so your colonies may not be as widespread as they will be, and you are likely feeding more trying to get the sick fish to eat, and you are pretty much asking for at least a "mini-cycle". 

Unhappy fish will often skip eating for a week or two. Short-term its a generic symptoms. But if it persists, look at internal parasites.


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok, thanks for the info. In fact I have been feeding alittle bit more than i should, and i decided to stop after i did the evening feeding today. I know that decaying food does rot so i'm only making it worse. So i won't feed anymore than i have to for the next little while. And the medication cycle is almost complete (I feel that because i started i should probably finish it,just to be on the safe side, is this a good thing?) and i will be putting the carbon back in as soon as i can. I guess it's just gonna have to be water changes every day or two and watching closely for signs of high ammonia concentrations. Thanks again for all of your help.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I agree, use the full treatment of med. You really don't want to create any anti-biotic resistant organisms to give you more trouble.


----------



## direlime (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok, so heres where i'm at. I bought a test kit and i have been testing ammonia levels daily. But i'm not seeing any improvement and i'm having to do farely large water changes to keep the fish happy (i can tell if the ammonia is bothering them if their gills are becoming inflammed/red). I've also used the double dose of prime to no avail. Are the water changes i'm doing good or bad? And does anyone know how long it's going to take for the ammonia to level out? 
Thanks for your time,
Direlime


----------

