# Saltwater Tank Help



## attila (Oct 18, 2006)

Ill try and make a long story short. I decided to buy a saltwater fish only tank about two weeks ago after seeing it on display at a "home show". I figured that it was already setup and it would be a smooth operation. Its a 47 gallon tall tank that fits perfecty in the corner of my living room. 
I got three fish with it. A lionfish, clownfish, triggerfish. I later purchased a foxface and coral beauty. The second I added the foxface and coral beauty the lionfish started to attack them. So I decided to return the lionfish since I really didnt want to have a hostile environment in my tank. The same day I returned the Lionfish the guy at the store suggested that I get a cream angel.
Now the cream angel is kinda chasing the coral beauty and I have noticed that it doesnt eat at all. Is this normal? What should I do? 

How much live rock should a 47 gallon tank have?
Will I stress the fish out if I try and re organize the tank so the fish have more hiding places? Do I take them out or leave them in the tank as I do this? 

Sorry about the stupid questions I am totally new to this and I would hate to have my little guys die on me. Thanks for your help and I promise not to add anymore fish!


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## Reefneck (Oct 15, 2005)

Return the cream angel and find a LFS that has a clue!

2 Angels in a tank that small will fight to the death.


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Reefneck said:


> Return the cream angel and find a LFS that has a clue!
> 
> 2 Angels in a tank that small will fight to the death.


Well thats what I was going to say. Though I am surprised you put it that succinctly.....


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

I'm surprised on one thing - how long did he have the SW tank up and running if he saw the tank at a home show "2 weeks ago". Di he run out and set it up and threw the fish in it ? I apologize for me saying this, but does the post sounds like he did a quick set-up without actually reading up on the care and research on fish compatibilty ? I knew 2 angels of same genus will kill each other. Except, of course, are the rare Replenise (?) Angelfish. 

How long have you had your tank up and running ?


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## Jonno (May 22, 2005)

Won't the trigger fish out grow that tank i thought they needed quite a large tank. Did you do any research on the tank before hand ?? Also what equipment do you have ?


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## attila (Oct 18, 2006)

Damn I love this post already. Thanks for all the response. I did do a very quick setup. I figured that it would be ok since I used the same water from the tank they were in. Two days after setting it up I did a test with the hydrometer and the reading was 1.014! I realized that this was terrible environment for the fish so I almost dumped 7lbs of salt into the tank to make it the right level. 
Its been about three weeks since I got this tank. I did my ammonia. nitrate, nitrite and ph test and all levels are fine.
The tank actually came with;

Eheim wet/dry filter
Eclipse 18" natural daylight lamp
Blue actinic 18" light
About an inch of white crushed rock and shells on the bottom.

Also bought the best protein skimmer I couldn find. 
I got about 25lb of Live Rock.

I did go too fast and I know I should have done my research but once I had it in my place it was 2 late. I worked with it and I think I made it work. I do want to add more live rock and figure out what I want to do about this angel fish. I wish the dealer would have educated me more rather than giving me two fish that wouldnt get along. I guess this is what you get when you put your trust into people and not do your own homework. 
Dont worry about the triggerfish, he is the smallest one and its the niger trigger which supposed to be the most tame.


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Welcome to fishforums. I see that you have a few problems already... we'll try to sort things out for you... right now I've got some work to do but I'll be back in a while to help you out.


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Well as you already stated, there have been many mistake made with this tank. But lets not dwell on the mistakes so much but learn from the experience. My first suggestion is to check out the chat and see if anyone is in there that have experience with saltwater. It always seems to be easier to learn when you can just ask question and get responses right away. With that said I will just go through a few things.

*Fish community:*

As you have already said you did not research marine tanks and I am guessing you didn’t research the fish you selected for your tank. This is something you are going to want to make sure you do in the future. I am just going to do a quick list of your fish and put the size tank they need, how big they can get, and how aggressive they are. Your aggressive fish should always be the last to go in the tank. This is why you lion fish was attacking the new arrivals because they are aggressive and the new arrivals where coming into his domain.

Lion fish: I am not sure what type it is but the dwarf species can get to be 7 inches and need a 30 gallon or larger tank. All lion fish are semi-aggressive. All lions are carnivores.

Clownfish: Once again I am not sure what type of clown you have and would love to know. All clowns are omnivores. Ocellaris Clowns can get to 3.5 inches and are peacefull. True Percula clownfish are semi-aggressive but are also about 3.5 inches at max length. Maroon clowns are aggressive and can get to 7 inches.

Triggers: Most triggers need at least a 70 gallon tank and a couple need even a larger tank such as the clown trigger that needs about 125 gallons because it grows up to 1 foot 8 inches. Triggers are aggressive. This is one fish you will need to get rid of because you don’t have the right tank for them.

Foxface: All the ones I know of need at least a 70 gallon tank. They are peaceful and but are also venomous. They are herbivores. Another fish that should not be in your tank.

Coral Beauty angelfish: A very beautiful fish which can be housed in a tank 30 gallons and bigger. It is an omnivore that is semi-aggressive. Can grow to about 4 inches.

Cream angelfish: Is an aggressive fish that can reach lengths of 8 inches and needs to be housed in a 70 gallon or larger tank. As others have said, angels don’t like sharing a tank.

Alright as you can see there are some changes you need to make. If you could tell us what type of clown, trigger, and foxglove you have that would be great. I though would suggest you get rid of your floxface, trigger, and cream angelfish. The general rule is a half inch per gallon. But this isn’t exact science. It all depends on what type of fish it is as well. You use the max length of the fish. But once again this is just a general rule.

*FOWLR:*

By the sounds of it you are trying to set up a FOWLR tank. This is Fish only with live rock. Live rock is a great biological filter. Most of us on this forum rely on liverock for most of our filtration. The only other filter need is a protein skimmer. What kind of protein skimmer did you get. You had asked about how much liverock is needed in a 47 gallon, well once again I can’t give you a straight answer because it all depends on what type of rock you are using. Some rock is lighter then others. Many use fugi rock so I will use that as a basis which is a somewhat heavier rock. It is suggest that you have 1.25 to 1.75 pounds of liverock per gallon. In your case that would be somewhere between 58-82 pounds. Now as you can see you are under this number and it would be best to get some more. The problem is though that you can only add a little at a time because you have fish in your tank. If you would add too much rock you will put your tank through anther cycle which would most likely kill your livestock. If I where you I would take everything back and start over. It would be much easier and better for your fish.

If you happen to take my advice on starting over I would also get rid of the crushed coral and actually go with live sand. Live sand provided yet another biological filter for your tank. It is my opinion that crushed coral is one of the worst things you can use as a substrate. Others may disagree. 

*Salinity sg (specific gravity)*

I am glad to see you knew that your water salinity was very low. I keep mine around 1.024. Yours was low and needed to be raised. But you made a huge mistake. Fist thing is that you should never add salt directly to your tank. This alone could kill everything in your tank. What you should have done is did a 20% water change. With the new water you mix you can raise the sg a bit higher then that in the tank. Maybe .003 -.004 higher then what is in your tank. You want your sg to raise slowly in your tank. It shouldn’t move up more then .002. The reason you mix the water a little higher then .002 is because you still have 80% water volume you are working with which will water down the new mixed water. I would say that it should take about 5 water changes to get your tank up to where it should have been at. Almost a month time should past to get it up to 1.024, 1.025. If you move it up or down too fast your fish will suffer and possibly die.

Well I think that will be it for now because I have to get ready for class. Some things we could use for you are is exactly what fish you have. Type of protein skimmer, type of liverock, and any other specifics you can give us. Throw in your water readings as well including temp. I am sure others will add some things and maybe disagree with what I have to say. The best thing you can do is keep researching and keep asking questions. 

Zachary


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

I guess I can't add much to that list except for a few adjustments on spelling and a bit more insight on your current fish. Fugi liverock he is actually talking about fiji. Niger triggers are by no means the "least aggressive trigger" They actually lie in the middle of the spectrum, and the trigger I believe is the least aggressive would be either the pink tail or blue throat. Neither of which would work in your tank because of spatial restrictions. All clowns come with some sort of aggression... but the on that is the worst would be the maroon clown.


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Yeah i suck when it comes to spelling!:chair:


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

Id have to encourage you also... to look into coming into chat... quick answers that way


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## attila (Oct 18, 2006)

Damn I think I am stressed out. I specifically told the guy at the store what my tank is like and he suggested to me that I get these fish. Whats up with that? 
My trigger fish is only a bit over 1 inch and he gets along with all the others so its really hard for me to give him away . My clownfish is a "tomato" clown. The Cream Angel I will return as soon as I can.
I wanted to also let you know of the dimensions of the tank cause its a tall tank. 20Lx18Wx28H(inches). The live rock that I have in there is from Fiji.
This is the link to the protein skimmer that I bought.(http://www.salinesolutions.net/Skimmers/InstructHKProSkimGeneral.html)
I doubt that I would start over especially since the fish look pretty happy. They seem very active and are eating well(except for the coral beauty). What should I get in place of the Cream Angel? Should I just forget about more fish? Damn maybe I should have gotten a hampster instead of fish!


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

lol thats the last thing we want to do is stress you out... and the thing about listening to the guy at the store is, A) a store is often out to make money... money comes before the customer and B) the guy at the store might be pulling stuff right out of his butt... might not even have a saltwater tank or has one but is improperly setup. 

We at fishforums want you to succeed. Its really not that hard... but you can't really just JUMP in and think you aren't going to have some problems. (Heck this is how I started the hobby as well, jumping in with creatures I knew nothing about) 
First I would suggest some good reading. "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner is a good one. Also getting into chat would be very helpful for you, and will help you make good decisions and not ones that are just going to waste your money in the short or long term.


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## DanCoFishTails (Oct 6, 2006)

well I have to chime in....

I as an owner am here to make a living, but for someone new to the hobby, I will not sell everything they do not need. Like the crappy skimmer that was bought. What in the heck would anyone want with a skimmer that uses an air stone????? That won't do jack for the size tank you have.

I like to help people when they come into my store. Not bend them over break one off and then laugh after they leave. Return business is how we make a living......

Let me get off of my soapbox before I say something really bad....


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## CollegeReefer (Sep 1, 2006)

Ok I have some time too add some more things. You had asked if it would stress out your fish if you move your rock work around and if you need to remove the fish if you do move the rock work. You can keep the fish in there and there will be little stress too the fish. My fish are getting to the point that they are use to my hands in the tank and don't even flinch. they even come up looking for food. How much did you pay for your skimmer? Who did you buy it from? Who suggested that skimmer? I hope you didn't pay too much for it. Like the last post said i am not sure if that skimmer is going to work and you might want to pick up a new one. If you are looking for a great skimmer for the decent price i would go with the coralife needle wheele.


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## attila (Oct 18, 2006)

CollegeReefer and everyone else thanks for your help. 
I had the assistant manager of the store recomending that skimmer. All together it cost me $300 CDN and I doubt that I can return it. I am starting to get the feeling that I got raped at the fish store..........you live and learn.


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## DanCoFishTails (Oct 6, 2006)

For the price the Coralife needle wheels make great skimmers. Iuse them on my salt tanks in the store. If you need one and can't get it locally, let me know and I will work something out with you...


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## ivanpres (Oct 3, 2006)

I want to add about the Niger Triggerfish that the "Marine Fishes" book by Scott Michael says about them that it is "relatively peaceful and quiet handsome when well-fed and properly illuminated. Usually not hostile to tankmates, it tends to be shy at first, becoming bolder with the time". They don't sound to be so aggresive than said in one post. Anyway you will have problems with him because of the tank size, he needs minimum a 75 gal. tank.


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

I'd like to add one thing that I read somewhere (can't remember where though) regarding Triggers. When doing some cleaning in the tanks, always know where your triggerfish are because they can bite or use their spines on you if you're not careful. I'm not sure which kind it is but correct me if I'm wrong. Have any of you have had their trigger bite you when you weren't paying attention ?


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

YES... it hurt bad... bled too. But I have to disagree with scott w. michael... The current thinking is that the niger is not extremely peaceful, but can be kept with many of you community fish with extreme caution. They can turn on their tank mates like any trigger can... I feel that the pinktailed trigger and the blue throated trigger is even less of a threat though.


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