# Cichlids



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

Ok so after discovering that my water is a little to acidic (6.2) for guppies..will have this verified by a pet store tomorrow. I am wanting to learn about Cichlids since I hear they handle the acidity of my water better. 

How many fish to a gallon?
How many gallons should I have? 
Egg or Live bearers?
Will regular tropical flake fish food be enough?
What temp level, if at all?
What kind of tank mates can they have, if any at all?

Would appreciate any help in this possible venture.


----------



## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

What size tank is your preference? I have a three dwarf cichlids in a 20 gal and they do great. Cichlids actually like harder water, not acidic. But dwarfs can be acclimated to a wide variety of water qualities. Mine eat flake food, brine shrimp, and occasional guppy fry. Temp is 78 - 80. 
Cant really tell you more till you tell me tank size and the kind your interested in.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

I have a 10 gallon now but will be getting a 30 gallon in about a week. Thought of using the 30 for the guppies...as I am sure they will multiply if they adjust to my water. Leaving my 10 gallon free. I was thinking maybe 4 Angelfish.


----------



## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

FishyBusiness said:


> I have a 10 gallon now but will be getting a 30 gallon in about a week. Thought of using the 30 for the guppies...as I am sure they will multiply if they adjust to my water. Leaving my 10 gallon free. I was thinking maybe 4 Angelfish.


No No No No. Angels get huge. 6 inches tall and wide. a pair of rams, or better yet cockatoo cichlids would work. But nothing more.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

How many should I get?


----------



## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

FishyBusiness said:


> How many should I get?


No angels. The need alot of space. While they are young, its okay. But not for long.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

Ok no angels, got it. I don't know of anyone around here that carry rams or cockatoos.


----------



## ZebraDanio12 (Jun 17, 2011)

Then i dont sugest cichlids. In the 30 it would be better to work with. There are many other possibilities to put in a 10 gallon. My plan for a couple of my empty ones would be to have mainly shrimp and a couple pearl danios.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

okay back up. Cichlidae is a family of fish from all over the world. Do not judge cichlids by the PetChain assort. cichlid tank. Those are usually Lake Malawi fish that need quite different conditions from S. American river cichlids. 

There is a cichlid for every water, hard, soft, acid, basic. 

All cichlids lay eggs, but some will carry eggs and fry in their mouths, making them seem to release live babies. 

All cichlids provide some care/defense for their eggs or fry. This makes them fascinating to watch, but it makes them all territorial, at least when breeding.

Territorial fish chase other fish out of their territory. If the other fish can't leave the tank, they get hurt or dead. So big enough tank size is very important for cichlids. 

A 10 can suit a happy breeding pair of some of the smallest cichlids, but isn't good for a "community" tank with cichlids or for a dating tank (the odd ones out get hurt). 

A 30 is a much better size, but I think you do it for the guppies as they will breed to fill any tank you get. Really the best way to breed guppies needs multiple tanks.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

I like my guppes, but if they can not adapt to my water and continue to die off why only buy more. I don't want to use umptine chemicals to increase the ph. I want to be able to use the ph out of the tap..so which brings me to find a fish that can handle my tap.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

So I was looking at some Convict Cichlids. Can you tell the difference in males and females?


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

When young, mostly size male siblings grow faster than their sisters. When spawning, the tube. When older, size and shape.


----------



## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

You can try killies and tetras in acidic water. At least, I think tetras...

Or white-cloud minnows.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

New confirmation my water ph is fine. Its the ammonia. Its too high. When I got home I did a 40-45% water change, will do one everyday until I get the 30 gallon in a day or two, then since I only have like 14 fish in the tank I should be on the safe side.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

But since my water is 6.8 would that allow me to get 2 african cichlids in the 10 gallon...or still no.


----------



## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

For the fish themselves it would probably be okay if they were captive bred. However if you want to breed then I would say no. Put crushed coral in the tanks filter. That will naturally raise your Ph and make it easier for the Africans. However there are nice South American's that you can probably find. If not through your LFS then try aquabid. They are probably better stock anyway.

If you go the African route then you will want to find out the Ph of the tank they are coming from and compare it with your Ph. Then do a slow drip to get the fish used to the new Ph before you put them into the tank. Drastic Ph changes will not be good. Being kept in the "wrong" Ph might leave them more susceptible to disease as well.


----------



## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i would suggest that you start doing some research on any species you might want to keep...african cichlids need a PH of about 8.4..or even higher for some....

10 gallon tank.........................dwarf cichlids...convicts are not dwarf cichlids.....something like the apistogramma species...there are a bunch of them and they are very pretty..and always in demand...

apparently your tank has not been up very long because it hasn't cycled..take it easy for awhile....let it cycle...same with the 30 when you get it...
i would also suggest that you get a little more experience under your belt before you try your hand at egglayers....


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

I had mollies for a month...no problems, but got bored with their goldfish appearance so I sold them washed the tank and got the guppies the same day. Also recently switched to to sand. When I set the 30 gallon up should I used the water they are in now?


----------



## convict (Feb 7, 2012)

*no*

African cichlids need Ph at 8 or over 6.8 would kill them or at least it wouldnt be good for them. i would recommend convicts in the 30. I have 3 convicts and a cuban cichlid in my 36 gallon.


----------



## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

I thought that there were some Africans that are fine with mid 7 range Ph? And that those would be able to adjust down. Of course I don't know a TON of African Cichlids. I didn't know they like 8.4. Go figure LOL 

So yeah, ignore part of my message, but a lot of it stands LOL.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

Convicts...from what I read can handle 5.5-8.0. My water comes out of the tap at 6.8. All the others I read about want 7.0-8.4. I dont want to add tons of chemicals on a routine basis. And if they only go to 4 inches full grown and only two are in a 10 gallon, that will leave 2 inches of free space...correct? Or should I just throw in the towel and stick with my two cats lol.


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Captive bred Malawi and Victoria cichlids will do fine in 7.5+ as long as the water is nice and hard, but none are suitable for a 10 gallon. Multies and other small shellies need Tanginikan water which is very alkaline and "off the scale" hard.

The small soft-water apistos are not beginner fish. I kind of agree with the wait for the next tank or the one after that advice.


----------



## kay-bee (Dec 6, 2006)

convict said:


> ...African cichlids need Ph at 8 or over 6.8 would kill them or at least it wouldnt be good for them...


"African cichlids" are a very diverse grouping of fish. The east african Rift Lake species thrive in high-pH environments, but the west african riverine and other non-rift lake african cichlids are suited to lower pH environments.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

I have the normal ph level though at 6.8. I thought that was more towards the South American types.


----------



## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

You are correct. South American are a much better option than Africans for that Ph.


----------



## convict (Feb 7, 2012)

first of all convicts grow to 6 and not 4


----------



## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

They will breed in a 10 the first time, but then you will have an overcrowded 10 and the parents will keep on growing.


----------



## convict (Feb 7, 2012)

i would recommend a 30 or 40 for Convicts but they can live in a 25 gallon


----------



## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

To be fair, guppies are advertised to thrive from 6.0-8.5, but its true that they do better in harder water. But I DONT think having soft water would be killing off your fish...Maybe PH SHOCK. In which case, Obsidian points out what to do as far as acclimating them goes. Another thing to take into consideration, is where you are GETTING your guppies. Chain stores are kind of like brothels. Everyone gets everything that anyone had.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

My guppies are holding steady right now. Sadly I have had two miscarriages but I am sure that when I get them in the 20 things will be better.


----------



## Ladayen (Jun 20, 2011)

FishyBusiness said:


> And if they only go to 4 inches full grown and only two are in a 10 gallon, that will leave 2 inches of free space...correct?


I'm assuming on this you're referring to the 1g of water to 1" of fish rule? It's a flat out lie and should have no bearing on how you stock your tank.


----------



## FishyBusiness (Jan 24, 2012)

I had ammonia issues but after doing two water changes daily its holding steady. Also upgraded to a 30 gallon tank.


----------

