# Compatability thoughts.......



## Moltenice (Mar 18, 2007)

This is the 4th time I have typed this, so it's going to be short and sweet just incase it gets messed up again........:chair: 

I am looking for a nice front room setup that saltwater_-ish_ without the ha$$le.....

Tank is 60gal LONG, filter is XP3 rated at 175gal, 350-gph (more then enough).... Fake coral and rock with sand bottom.

Fish:

*Half Black Angelfish*








Minimum Tank Size: 30 gallons 
Care Level: Easy 
Tank Conditions: 75-82°F; pH 5.8-8.0; KH 1-5 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 6" 
Color Form: Black and White 
Temperament: Peaceful 
Diet: Omnivore 
Origin: Tank Bred 
Family: Cichlidae 
Tank Bred: Yes


*Dusky Panther Goby*








Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons 
Care Level: Easy 
Tank Conditions: 72-82°F; pH 7.5-8.5; KH 10-18 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 4" 
Color Form: Black, Brown, Tan 
Temperament: Peaceful 
Caution: Venomous 
Diet: Carnivore 
Origin: Singapore 
Family: Tetrarogidae


*Synodontis Decorus Catfish*(looks like a shark)








Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons 
Care Level: Easy 
Tank Conditions: 75-82°F; pH 6.5-7.8; KH 4-15 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 10" 
Color Form: Brown, Tan 
Temperament: Peaceful 
Diet: Omnivore 
Origin: Africa - Upper Zaire, Cameroons 
Family: Mochokidae


*Black Ghost Knifefish *








Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons 
Care Level: Moderate 
Tank Conditions: 73-80°F; pH 6.5-7.0; KH 0-10 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 1' 6" 
Color Form: Black 
Temperament: Semi-aggressive 
Diet: Carnivore 
Origin: Farm Raised, Thailand 
Family: Apteronotidae


*Clown Loach *








Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons 
Care Level: Moderate 
Tank Conditions: 72-86°F; pH 6.0-7.5; KH 8-12 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 1' 
Color Form: Amber, Black, Brown, Cream, Orange Tip 
Temperament: Peaceful 
Diet: Omnivore 
Origin: Indonesia 
Family: Cobitidae

*Red Turquoise Discus *








Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons 
Care Level: Moderate 
Tank Conditions: 79-86°F; pH 6.1-7.5; KH 1-3 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 8" 
Color Form: Red, Turquoise 
Temperament: Peaceful 
Diet: Carnivore 
Origin: Malaysia, Tank Bred 
Family: Cichlidae


*Tire Track Eel*








Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons 
Care Level: Moderate 
Tank Conditions: 72-82°F; pH 6.8-7.2; KH 10-16 
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 2' 6" 
Color Form: Brown, Tan 
Temperament: Semi-aggressive 
Diet: Carnivore 
Origin: Southeast Asia 
Family: Mastacembelidae


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## Moltenice (Mar 18, 2007)

They are all peaceful except for the eel and knifefish, but they are suppose to be ok I guess if they have lots of hiding places which there will be a ton of.

This is the visual I will be looking for









I think with those fish, it will be hard for someone to tell they arent saltwater.

Opinions please.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

In my opinion your tank is too samll for the clown loaches, tire track eel, and the black ghost knife. with all that dead coral in the tank i figure your water is going to be very hard, not really ideal for the discus, plus i see tiger barbs which are too nippy for the discus.


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## Moltenice (Mar 18, 2007)

GoodMike said:


> In my opinion your tank is too samll for the clown loaches, tire track eel, and the black ghost knife. with all that dead coral in the tank i figure your water is going to be very hard, not really ideal for the discus, plus i see tiger barbs which are too nippy for the discus.


ahh the above tank is just an example, not mine. I know the dead coral increase the PH level of the water so I going to try and find some fake, coral looking subs for it and not the real stuff. The only fish I am considering are the above listed.
The only ones I feel really set on, or like the most are the angelfish, discus, and eel.


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## Gump (Aug 2, 2006)

If you plan on upgrading the tank id choose the clowns, knife, and decorus. I think this tank would be very boaring as the knife and decorus will hide pretty much the whole day. You could add the angles with this group if they were all small.

The eel grows much faster then those the three i picked which all grow very slow. 

Or ditch the coral theme and do all discus with a decorus.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

i thought you were going to put your zebra in it. what happened to that idea?..lol


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

First, I hope you took those pics and did not get them from another site without giving credit to that site.

Second, its impossible to make a fw tank look saltwater-ish. But it can still look nice. Cichlidman has a sticky about colorful cichlids that give the appearance of colorful saltwater fish.

Ditch the barbs if you are going with angels or discus. DOnt mix angels and discus either. You also have a mix of hardwater and softwater fish which could lead to problems.


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## Moltenice (Mar 18, 2007)

Damon said:


> *First, I hope you took those pics and did not get them from another site without giving credit to that site.*
> 
> Second, its impossible to make a fw tank look saltwater-ish. But it can still look nice. Cichlidman has a sticky about colorful cichlids that give the appearance of colorful saltwater fish.
> 
> Ditch the barbs if you are going with angels or discus. DOnt mix angels and discus either. You also have a mix of hardwater and softwater fish which could lead to problems.


Well they are all from the same and are just linked. It seems they have ghosted their logo on some photos and not others.. I have been doing "forums" for about 6 years now and never heard anyone mention credit, unless this is a site specific issue. I do know that if company wishes to not have it's photos copied, or linked then it will disable a right click.


I WAS going by the sticky cichlidman created. I think the above fish types simulate saltwater fish enough to confuse my everyday guests.

Can you help me with which ones are "hardwater" I looked through the PH and it seems the goby and decorus have a bit higher PH tolerance, but all seem to share a realm of 7.0... So in theory if you kept it near 7.0 they should all be happy or is that not how it works???????? 

thanks for the inputs


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## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

As for the copyright issues.......
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

But thats another topic and ALL websites must adhere to this.

You are confusing the terms of hardwater and PH.
While a higher ph normally means harder water, they are not exclusive.
When mentioning a PH of 7 (which is neutral) you can still have hard or soft water.
We're discussing GH and KH in terms of how hard or soft water is, not PH which describes how acidic or alkaline water is.

Discus and angles prefer very soft water (lower ph helps but is not necessary). Thats not to say they wont be happy in a neutral aquarium.

I have no personal experience with the eel and knife together but it doesn't seem like a good mix to me.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

That pic comes FROM Cichlidman's thread. lol

All that coral would rip those poor scaleless fish to shreds.


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## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

I think the Dusky Panther Goby, looks sweet, but I know nothing about venomous fish and who can be in a tank with them. The Discus are a difficult fish, they are very slow and sensitive to water conditions. Discus do best in a species specific tank. Clown Loaches, Black Ghost Knivefish, and Tire Track Eel, would all get to big for a 60gal. Also Clown Loaches are a scooling fish so would need a 100gal+ tank or 6ft long plus tank to support a school of them. 

There are alot of Chilids that are very good looking fish that would support a fake SW theme. For a 60gal you should be looking to stay in the 3-5" range. There are plenty of them. In a 69gal. long the Angels would be nice, maybe something like 2-4 of them. The Catfish is cool, he should do fine. 

You should read this thread, it's detailed a bit more on what happens to fish when in a tank too small. http://www.fishforums.com/forum/general-freshwater/2483-our-view-stocking-levels-stunting-fish.html


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## Moltenice (Mar 18, 2007)

GoodMike said:


> In my opinion your tank is too samll for the clown loaches, tire track eel, and the black ghost knife. with all that dead coral in the tank i figure your water is going to be very hard, not really ideal for the discus, plus i see tiger barbs which are too nippy for the discus.


ahh ok so after talking in the chat with you about the fish, I see the errors in the above system.... The eel is obviously going to get too large, the discus and angels dont mix.. The loaches are also going to get fairly big and are a bit of a hider anways, along with the knife (always in a cave at the LFS).
The goby's seem to sound like a small tank solitary creature, so thats a no go.

You said Tetras would work with Discus, so what else? I think I want to focus around the Discus. Set up a good community base (like with the tetras) and then introduce the focus fish the Discus. I will have to figure out how to set up the filter media in the canister(LARGE canister) filter to benefit the Discus best...........


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## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

What kind of tap water do you have? If your tapwater is hard water, you'll need to use either RO or rainwater to make the water soft enough for discus.


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