# betta tankmates



## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

i have a huge male crowntail betta named oswald.his tank is next to a female goldfish named sithigar.i have a bigger tank and i was wondering if they would get along.could they live together without getting nipped fins?please help!!! 
:withstup:


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

No. Bettas are tropical and need heated water around 78 degrees, goldfish are coldwater and do better at room temperature.


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## Clerk (Nov 22, 2006)

Make sure sithigar has a tank of at least 20 gallons.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

trashion said:


> No. Bettas are tropical and need heated water around 78 degrees, goldfish are coldwater and do better at room temperature.


i have never seen a betta with a heater, my girlfriend has one that has lived in a bowl for a year.. besides they are usually just in cups anywhere you get them.


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

Yes they will live without heat but is it the right way....no.just cause somthing can live without something doesnt make it happy.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

shade2dope said:


> Yes they will live without heat but is it the right way....no.just cause somthing can live without something doesnt make it happy.


well, he swims around, is responsive to my girlfriend, eats without problems and has grown and developed quite nicely, if you have some other way of decoding a fishes feelings please share.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Right, well, my grandmother had a betta that lived FIVE years in a bowl with no heat. Did it live a long time? Yes. My grandmother's house is very stable in temp, and she keeps the temperature high. But cases like this are the exception, not the rule.

You can keep a dog in a 4 ft x 4 ft pen in the yard with a shoddy shelter, but no one wants to subject that animal to conditions that are far from optimal. Why keep a fish in conditions that are far from optimal?


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

okay but my point is the fish shows no signs of stress or being uncomfortable, it has been doing as fine as a betta with heat would be..


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

A mind is like a parachute: It only works when it is open.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

Obsidian said:


> A mind is like a parachute: It only works when it is open.


even though i know this was directed toward me, maybe people should take into consideration just because the companies that make and sell the heaters tell you, you need one for a fish to be "happy" doesn't mean its set in stone or true for that matter..

my girlfriends betta shows all signs of a fully healthy and content fish and has for a year.. i think it'll be okay if i don't get a heater for it.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

I beg your pardon? No company ever told me I needed a heater to make my fish happy. I did it because I'm not a jerk and I research what my fish need to be happiest and healthiest.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

where do you think this research comes from, places that breed bettas, who in turn supply petstores nation wide, who are bound by contracts with companies that manufacture products such as heaters.. these stores and the companies have to sell X amount of heaters to be profitable so they push research done by there "experts" that say oh this fish will not be happy unless you have this.. 

from common knowledge a "happy" fish is one that is healthy, active, personable.. all of which the betta in question is, without a heater...

i don't know how you figure someone is a jerk for not buying a heater for a fish that can obviously thrive without one... there are no heaters in the ocean, and if you think the temperature stays at 78 degrees then i'm sorry... 

bettas that are in stores and or the majority of homes are kept without heaters.. its not like i'm keeping it in the fridge and it has a sad face and holding up a sign calling me a jerk.. her room temperature is like 76 anyways... so please don't call PETA on me for not going out and buying a heater for the betta..


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

ok you are taking a fish from it's natural habitat and its your responsibility to duplicate that.I breed bettas and I can tell you that temp have a big roll in there growing.I bet you got that betta from the petstore np but most of those are 1 year + after that there pretty much done.I bet you were just saying that(without problems and has grown and developed quite nicely).I leaveing this thread alone and trashion I recommend the same to you before we get banned.

Back to the thread and sorry for hijacking it.Snails or African dwarf frogs I have heard work good with eack other.The problem is why we buy them there attractive fins.Other fish see this slow moving fish and go for it.Good tank mates should be non-aggressive and non-territorial.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

shade2dope said:


> ok you are taking a fish from it's natural habitat and its your responsibility to duplicate that.I breed bettas and I can tell you that temp have a big roll in there growing.I bet you got that betta from the petstore np but most of those are 1 year + after that there pretty much done.I bet you were just saying that(without problems and has grown and developed quite nicely).I leaveing this thread alone and trashion I recommend the same to you before we get banned.


really, there are heaters in bettas natural enviroment? 

read my comments before you go making assumptions.. i clearly stated the room temperature where the betta is located is 76 degrees subsequently that is the temperature of the water.. 
going back to you not reading, trashion clearly stated that her grandmother had a betta ( i assume from the petstore, because that is where you buy most fish  ) lived for 5+ years, and oh my god it did not have a heater. 

and just like you can bet i "just said that" i can bet you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

my apologies to the OP, you can have your thread back now.


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Ok, so your girlfriend has kept 1 betta in 1 bowl for 1 year at 76F and it has done fine. Great! But not everyone keeps their house at a constant comfy tropical temp therefor you need a heater to keep the TANK WATER at that constant optimal temp. What do you think would happen to that fish if the room temp suddenly dropped to say 50F?
The information these people are giving doesn't come from just one or two personal experiences. It comes from reading and researching hundreds of resources written by hundreds of professional fish keepers and breeders over several decades. The scientists and marine biologists that observe and record this information aren't supporting the sales of aquarium heaters. They are bringing to the public awareness the natural conditions in which these creatures live and thrive so that those conditions can be duplicated in a controlled environment. 
The same thing goes for that goldfish. It can withstand temp fluctuations of several degrees but it would take only one time of the temp jumping up to 90F to cause serious problems or even death. The heater is not just to MAKE the water the proper temp but to KEEP it there. Even animals kept in zoos must be kept in controlled conditions that mimic their natural habitat for them to survive and thrive.
In short, a kangaroo might be able to visit a polar bear in Alaska for a while but he can't live there.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Well said, Buggy.


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## shade2dope (Jan 21, 2007)

I am not saying there are heater's in wild. The heater is there to mimic the natural temp.There are exceptions.I dont heat every liltle jar that my fry are in but I do have a reliable space heater in the room that keeps temps around 78.I also have the room sealed so there are no drafts.But in general people dont do this so saying bettas dont need a heater is not right.I now at my gf's house if your not there to stock the wood stove temp can drop to low 60's.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

buggy, in a bettas natural environment at night the water does drop to 50.. 

oh and kangaroos are warm blooded meaning they would be able to adapt to cold temperature even though alaska has a very mild climate and there isn't a steady population of polar bears there.. and in an Australian desert at night the temperature can drop to near or below freezing, you really really need to learn what you are talking about before saying anything.

like it's okay for you to gang up, call me a liar, and convince your self that you are right, but the simple fact is you aren't and the fish can do fine and live a natural life without a heater. and please don't tell me the fish isn't "happy" because according to your "expert" research that has been done by hundreds of decades says that my fish is a happy fish


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

These aren't wild-caught fish, their "natural environment" really isn't relevant any more. They have been captive-bred for generations in heavily controlled climates.


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

since i cant put sithigar with oswald,can i put the goldfish with a very peaceful,fat pacu?his name is mona and wont eat a small feeder goldfish and wont even bother his old tankmates.sithigar is WAY to big to fit in monas mouth.if that doesnt work out,can i put the goldfish in a tank with a common pleco and a little pacu?i know this is stupid and probly cant be done but can i put the goldfish with my jack dempseys?the tanks are undercrowded and can use a little more fish.wich would be the best?


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

trashion said:


> These aren't wild-caught fish, their "natural environment" really isn't relevant any more. They have been captive-bred for generations in heavily controlled climates.


well up to this point everyone has been going on about blah these are tropical must imitate natural (from the earth) environment..

if we are talking about captive bred only and that, then no betta in a store has a heater, and though as fry they may at the breeder they spend much more time at the store before being purchased


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## AIRBORNEGUY (Mar 9, 2008)

CarterNichols said:


> buggy, in a bettas natural environment at night the water does drop to 50..


Water temps do not fluctuate much on a daily basis. It takes a steady, seasonal change in temperature to bring water temps down more than a few degrees.


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

AIRBORNEGUY said:


> Water temps do not fluctuate much on a daily basis. It takes a steady, seasonal change in temperature to bring water temps down more than a few degrees.


you don't think that the water in rice patties drops at night?


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## fish4fish (Jan 18, 2008)

Don't think Carter does research. Just putting out there what his "gf" fish has experienced, I don't really think its really helpful for you to put down other peoples advice when the other people have done research and may have even breed them as a hobby or job, are trying to help.

...hundreds of decades you said earlier...lol...and you said ""expert" opinion" hahah thats like desputing facts. lol reminds me of somethin Will Farrel did on SNL watch this, and skip to 1:50 lol sry but you just remind me of this so much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5r6TqpOQGc


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## CarterNichols (Feb 28, 2008)

fish4fish said:


> Don't think Carter does research. Just putting out there what his "gf" fish has experienced, I don't really think its really helpful for you to put down other peoples advice when the other people have done research and may have even breed them as a hobby or job, are trying to help.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5r6TqpOQGc


you are really funny, like i'm dying from your comical comments, but if you owned a betta, and or kept one for an extended amount of time you could quite possibly contribute to this conversation, you however don't and are jumping on a bandwagon of people that think everything they read on the internet must be right because someone who calls them self an expert on their website says so, when i made the comment about hundreds of experts for decades it was in response to some who said that trashion and the other kid had read hundreds of things of research that had been collected for decades... though i doubt they have read hundreds of books, pages, things what have you... that is what i said and meant, please learn to read and then keep your irrelevant and immature comments to your self. 

tl;dr go back to myspace.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2008)

Alright, lets get this thread back on topic. If you aren't posting advice for vettech, don't post in this thread. I have no problem with you taking your arguements to PM.....just don't continue it here. 



vettech909 said:


> since i cant put sithigar with oswald,can i put the goldfish with a very peaceful,fat pacu?his name is mona and wont eat a small feeder goldfish and wont even bother his old tankmates.sithigar is WAY to big to fit in monas mouth.if that doesnt work out,can i put the goldfish in a tank with a common pleco and a little pacu?i know this is stupid and probly cant be done but can i put the goldfish with my jack dempseys?the tanks are undercrowded and can use a little more fish.wich would be the best?


Vettech, Pacus really shouldn't be kept by hobbyist. If this is your personal fish, I hope you have a really large tank for it (well over 200g). If not, you should take it to the lfs where you got it, as they should not be selling these. If the Pacu doesn't eat it now, it probably will eventually, seeing as how these fish get massive. I'm sure they make alot of waste, just like Goldies, so if you have the Pacu in a tank smaller than say 100g, leave the goldie where he is. If the goldfish is not in atleast a 20g, you need to get your goldie a bigger tank or find a pond to put it in.

I'd bet that a Jack Dempsey would eat a goldfish if it would fit in its mouth. Plus, JDs are tropical fish and goldfish aren't. Your best bet is to find your goldfish a pond, especially if its a Comet.

As for your betta, what size tank is it in? Are you still wanting tankmates for it or is this really more about the goldfish? 

Vettech, I apologize to you for the thread hijack.


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

i rescued the goldfish from a puddle and it is in a really big pickle jar.i washed it firsti do want to get tankmates for my betta but dont know what to do with my goldfish.the pacu was in a 55 at 1 foot but now he is in a 500 gallon and it covers the whole wall!!!


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

i rescued the goldfish from a puddle and it is in a really big pickle jar.i washed it firsti do want to get tankmates for my betta but dont know what to do with my goldfish.the pacu was in a 55 at 1 foot but now he is in a 500 gallon and it covers the whole wall!!!


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## Ricker (Nov 23, 2007)

My betta is in a heated 10g right now temp is around 80. He loves his friends in the tank mollies and platys and now a new fish unknown at the time. he doesn't fight with any of them


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

A jar? Oh dear...

Is it a common or fancy goldfish? If it's a fancy (the poochy-bellied ones usually with 2 tails) then it needs around 29 gallons. If it's a comet goldfish, it doesn't really belong in a tank-it needs a pond :\


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## Ricker (Nov 23, 2007)

A a really big pickle jar is better then a puddle!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

So this question at hand is "Is the goldfish better off in a 500 gallon tank with Jack Demseys or in a pickle jar? right? If the goldfish won't fit in the demsey's mouth and there are several suitable hiding places for it, I would think the answer is yes. There is a chance the Demseys will kill it just because it's there, but theres a chance the pickle jar will get knocked down and broken. 

I'm not sure that its better for the Demsey, though. 
Does the goldfish look sick at all? Has he been in the jar long enough for an effective quarantine. You would hate to lose the big ones because of a rescue fish.

BTW: I am sick of the betta needs a heater/no they don't debate. Make a new thread instead jumping in ever time the word betta comes up.


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

the jd are in a 120 gallon and the pacu is in the 500.he use to be in a 55.she is showing no sighns of poor health.she is a gold koi because the person who had her had a pond and the koi mated with a goldfish.they dumped the babies in a sewer and it overflowed.that was just stupid!!!i moved her into a bowl with a top.she almost jumped out.this is just so complicated!!!she is still small but i think i could keep her in monas old tank with another small koi.the koi belongs to my friend so i will give it back to her wwhen i get a pond buit this fall.now she will eat tubfex worms out of my hand.she is a killer!i put her in with my feeder guppy tank and she ate over 50!!!


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Pacus really shouldn't be kept by hobbyist.


Not to start another argument here ... if you say Pacus shouldn't be kept by hobbyists then why do LFS all across the USA sell them to begin with ? I realize they do get quite large, In fact one LFS in my area has one that's at least 20 inches, if not larger, and is housed in a large tank by himself. If the hobbyist are knowledgeble and knows how big they do get, then there's no reason why they can't be kept.


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## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

Thats the problem. Most beginning hobbiest don't realize this and the fish stores know it so they can sell them easily. It's all about making money for them. A lot of fish get sold to the public that shouldn't be. If the fish stores would only sell to people that have the tanks big enough to keep them properly and inform the buyer of how big they get and how they need to be kept then there wouldn't be a problem but they will sell to anybody that can lay down the cash. Not all of them are that way but 90% of them are.


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## oliesminis (May 7, 2007)

going back to the original question of tank mates for bettas, i keep a red betta in a 10g tank with a few corys and some zebra danios, it is densly planted so he doesnt trouble them.

-olie

ps he has lived in this setup for over half a year happily, however i am planning on getting rid of the small fish and just having him and bettas.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I had a koi for one day, it jumped out. The do need lids. Make your best guess for temporary home and watch the fish. Hopefully you will be able to tell when some one is about to be lunch.

Dumping exotic fish (koi are from Asia) down the sewer is illegal as will as stupid. In some places the sewer can overflow into streams and rivers. Even if the fish end up at the screen in the water treatment plant, thats a cruel death. Its better to kill them and eat them. Better yet, find a koi club and sell the babies.


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## vettech909 (Jan 30, 2008)

anyway,i moved him into monas tank and got 2 silver dollars and they get along exellent.they swim in schools and sithigar cracked the automatic feeder and i had to get an algea eater.that was a real mistake!now the aquarium is full!sithigar is doing well and yall helped me solve my problem!!!thanks!!!


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## oliesminis (May 7, 2007)

hard to unserstand that post very mixed up can you try and split each individual bit up to make it easier to read. 

from what i understood its going well so well done, 

-olie


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