# What killed my new fish?



## Mew_chan (Jan 28, 2009)

I came home today and the rest of my fish were dead

I want to know for sure that it was the effects of the cycle that killed my 4 zebra danios, or if it was disease, or dodgy pet shop fish, or my filter, or my short attempt at fish food fishless cycling that killed them. 

Should I start over again completely? change out all the water, wash the gravel, the filter and the plants? Try again with new fish? or suck it up and try ammonia cycling?

Today my test readings are: 
ammonia: 0.25
ph: 7
nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
KH:40
GH: 80 - 120
The water seems a little cloudy now after doing a 30% water change after removing the dead fish.

*
TIme line*
Monday - fish put in tank
tuesday - morning first fish death - removed from tank
wednesday - other 3 still alive, 1 was simming weakly though
Thursday - checked fish in morning ,fed the one that was active, other 2 fish were swimming slowly on bottom, was not home in evening to check again
Friday- came home in afternoon removed 4 dead fish from tank 


*Possiblity1 - cycling*After running my new 20litre fish tank overnight (with aged water) I decided do do a fish cycle with 4 zebra danios. Since I only had 2 losses when cycling my first tank (1 tetra, 1 betta) I thought they would probably do ok since they are supposed to be hardier than the tetras of my older tank. ammonia was reading between 0.25 and 0.5 (due to previous fish food cycle attempt)

There are plants in the tank - I java fern, 1 potted anubis and some java moss

I added 1 large dose of stress zyme to the tank the night before adding the fish and a few drops daily to help with the cycle. My older tank was fine with me doing this.

I also added water conditioner/

*Possiblity 2 - Disease*
One of the ones that i fished out on friday had been caught in a plant but when freed floated to the surface and looked like it was covered in a whitish slime that extended from the body. Is it possible that this fish had just been dead for a while and the slime was a result of the decay?

All the other dead fish out floated around the bottom.

*Possibility 3 - dodgy pet shop fish*
One of the fish died the morning after placed in tank. When I brought them home from the Aquarium 1 was a lot less active than the others I thought that was probably the one that had died first as it was weeker than the others. 


*Possibility 4 - The filter*
Some of the fish looked like the skin was broken around the stomach and some of their meat was comming out... I think that the filter in my tank was turned on a bit strong as weed and stuff was getting sucked into the gaps in the filter and when I tried removing the fish it swept the dead fish around the tank and caught it as I was trying to remove it. I had to turn the filter off to remove the fish. The filter does not feel strong to me but its probably not the case to a tiny fish.

The fish tank was bought from target and came with a submersable filter that had no name but a number - QF - 1900/F.


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Possibility 5 - Fish food fishless cycling*
The night before adding the fish I read up about fishless cycling using fish food and thought I might give that a go... I added the food but after doing more research into fish cycling later I came across the negative effects of fish food cycling and thought despite the risk of loosing fish it would be healthier in the long run than fish food. ( I do not trust myself to do the pure ammonia cycling) I did not change the water before adding the fish.. I did a test but the water was only reading at about 0.5 amonia in the water.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I would say it is a combination of 1, 3 ,and 5.

1-You put fish into an uncycled tank. Furthermore, you put a lot of them into a very small tank. This causes the ammonia concentration to rise rapidly.

3-If you suspect the store was, "Dodgy," that tells me that you might want to find a new pet shop.

5-Fish food cycling is based on letting food decay in a tank. Eventually bacterial colonies will develop to digest ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate, etc. With fish food cycling, it takes a very very long time. It can work, but it takes a month or so from what I have read about it.

I would suggest that you change out all of your water and find a bacteria source before adding more fish. Or, do a fish cycle but do it with one fish, and a hardy one at that.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> I did not change the water before adding the fish.. I did a test but the water was only reading at about 0.5 amonia in the water


 You added fish when you already had ammonia? Thats a no no. New fish will always cause ammonia to rise, even more so if you put the water from the bag in the tank. It doesn't take much to reach a fatal level. The faster your fish die, the more likely it was water rather than disease.


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## Cacatuoides (Feb 2, 2009)

what would be a good fish to cycle my 10 gallon with?
BN Pleco?


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## crazyfishlady (Nov 4, 2007)

Are you using any type of dechlorinator when you replace the water? When using aged water the chlorine will slowly work it's way out but the chloramines will still stay in the water. What aquasafe, prime, or any tap water conditioner does is break the bond between chlorine and ammonia(chloramines) and makes them less toxic for the fish.

When I first started out years ago I didn't use any water conditioner and all my fish dropped dead within 48hrs of adding them to the tank. If your interested, here's an article about tank cycling and starter fish (http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php).


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## Mew_chan (Jan 28, 2009)

So that white slime on one of my dead fish was probably just normal decay that takes place when fish are left to decompose in water?

The annoying thing is that I have been to 8 aquariums in my area and the one I bought the fish from seemed the best... great range,clean looking tanks and healthy looking fish

To emc7
I had wondered if the fact that there was ammonia in the water already would kill the fish... I will do a complete water change and try again maybe with 2 fish... cherry barbs this time... 

Do you think it would be best for me to do a water change and add the fish straight away adding some bottled bacteria?
Or do the water change, put in some bottled bacteria product then run the tank overnight and put the fish in the next day? or should I always wait and put the bacteria in the same time as the fish? 
Keep in mind I have plants in the tank.
Either way I will be using water that has been aged for 2 days +

My first tank seemed to fully cycle in 2 weeks after using the bottled bacteria... and that was with a fully stocked tank from the beginning.
Also what is a dangerous level of ammonia? is 0.25 - 0.5 high in a cycling tank? 

To crazyfishlady
Of course I add dechlorinater to aged water... I actually mentioned that in my post...so thanks for trying to help me... but next time read the rest of the post... I only age it to lower the ph... Im not that silly.  

I have also read many, many articles about cycling and aquariums not to mention pretty much every new message posted in this section of the forums... I know you guys deal with alot of uninformed people comming hear and demanding answers to obvious questions... it was just that there were a few more factors in the death of my fish, and I wanted clarification... like that fact that my fish seemed damaged...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You can't judge cause of death from appearance unless you see it right away. Dead fish get fungus and get chewed on by other fish. Lots of pet-store fish are exposed to disease in transit, so its hard to tell, but the symptoms you reported aren't anything I recognized. 

If you have ammonia, you can add the bacteria. Will all clean water, don't add it until you have something for it to eat. And when the nitrite shows up, add a second dose. The nitrite eating bacteria won't thrive until it has something to eat. 



> Should I start over again completely? change out all the water, wash the gravel, the filter and the plants?


 If you think disease killed your fish, then thats a good idea, even bleaching is not out of the question. 

From your post I think water quality is more likely. A single dead fish can foul a small tank like a 10 in couple of hours, esp. if its not established. If you thinks its water quality, get any uneaten food or poop out of the gravel and filter and change all the water. With fishless cycling, you can add a large amount of waste to establish the biology because you don't have any fish to fear for. But cleaning up the decaying food and changing the water is a must before adding fish. While .5 isn't fatal, it didn't take much at all to push it into toxic levels. 

One thing I learned lately is that it can be harder to cycle a tank with a lot of plants. The plants grab up ammonia before the filter can get it and if the plants die or are removed you get a mini-cycle. But if you are measuring ammonia, thats not your problem.

You mention your first tank. Do you have another cycled tank you can use to "seed" this one?


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## Mew_chan (Jan 28, 2009)

I dont think the first tank is fully cycled yet... its only been up for about 2- 3 weeks and it is reading 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 25 nitrates. 

I bought the second tank when I was looking for a temporary home for my betta. Originally I was looking at vases and small holding containers and they were around $25 - 30 alone... I bought this new tank complete with gravel and filter for $30 from target, it is about he same size as my old tank which cost me $70 with the gravel, filter, fish food, and conditioner.. i know it is poorer quality (and Im not really trusting the filter - probably will end up buying a new one eventually) but as long as it doesnt leak I hope it will be ok... 
if this cheapo tank does start leaking around the seals.. any hints for a safe way to re-seal that wont hurt my fish?

There are very few plants in either tank... 1 small bunch of java fern, 1 potted annubis and a small ammont of java moss each... 

AS a side note.. I have just emptied and refilled the tank with new water... the filter is on and I will run it over night before looking at getting a few fish for cycling it tomorrow. Cherry barbs or Maybe white clouds since the tank at my work has 2 currently in with a betta and I think I could add a few more... since i dont want white clouds in there in the end...


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

What brand is the new tank? The biggest thing is that it is a tank meant for fish, not for reptiles. If it is meant for reptiles the glass thickness will be an issue on top of some possible seam issues. If it is thick enough for fish and it leaks it is easy to reseal.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

stable readings of 0, 0, 25=cycled tank. A cycled tank will always show nitrates unless you have tons of plants.

Just buy a bottle of Seachem's "Stability," plus fish that YOU WANT TO KEEP. Add some over the course of a week, and your cycle should be good to go.

Or you can remove a small piece of filter media from your other tank, put it in the filter of this tank, put in the fish, and that should cycle it in a jiffy.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I just reread the OP.

A 20*L* tank is about 5 gallons. That is very small and I, for one, would not try to keep zebra danios in it.

Also when did Target start selling fish stuff? Cool!


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## Mew_chan (Jan 28, 2009)

The tank is definately a fish tank... since it came with a filter and had "fish tank" written on it... maybe it was Kmart... hmm yes probably Kmart... I always get the two mixed up since they practically the same thing and both in same shopping center...

I honestly have no idea how big the tank is... measurements are roughly 36L x 22H x 25D in cm ... 20 litres was only a guess... my first calculator said that makes it roughly 28 litres but since I dunno what Im doing.. who knows if im correct  but if that too small what do you suggest? I was hoping to put 2 female bettas in there if possible.. but would also like maybe some small schooling fish if it is big enough...


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Sounds like a standard 5.5 gallon.

Too small for danios and all other schooling fish except for maybe Microrasboras, but those are usually only available online. 

No female bettas unless it's just one...I wouldn't go smaller than a 10 gallon for a betta harem. 

Dwarf gourami would work.


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