# First Tank Ever - Followup



## dudeman (Sep 11, 2010)

Hey guys! I wrote a few days back about my first tank, a 10 gallon with two goldfish. So far, I upgraded my filter to a whisper ex20, which isn't exactly silent but aside from that a great filter. I did two water changes in the first two days, around 40%, because the water was really cloudy. But now, the water has finally cleared up! I've only got one problem - a sick goldfish. 

One of the two goldfish is super healthy. I swear it's grown already, and it eats up any food I put in the tank. The other is smaller, less round, and a little duller. It occasionally tries to eat a passing flake, but always spits it right back out and never seeks out food on its own. Also, its tail has a small milky-white spot, not the bright white ick spot I've seen in pics but at the same time very obvious. There are two smaller milky-white spots on the top fin, though they are tiny and haven't particularly changed since I can remember. One more thing too, it likes to float in the tank with its fins squeezed in tight, only flapping a fin or two to maintain its position in the tank. I thought this was to fight the current of the new filter, but I read it could be a sign of stress or sickness.

What do you think? Is the little guy a goner? Sick? Or just stressed from the new tank and water changes?


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## eaglescout316 (Sep 13, 2010)

dudeman said:


> Hey guys! I wrote a few days back about my first tank, a 10 gallon with two goldfish. So far, I upgraded my filter to a whisper ex20, which isn't exactly silent but aside from that a great filter. I did two water changes in the first two days, around 40%, because the water was really cloudy. But now, the water has finally cleared up! I've only got one problem - a sick goldfish.
> 
> One of the two goldfish is super healthy. I swear it's grown already, and it eats up any food I put in the tank. The other is smaller, less round, and a little duller. It occasionally tries to eat a passing flake, but always spits it right back out and never seeks out food on its own. Also, its tail has a small milky-white spot, not the bright white ick spot I've seen in pics but at the same time very obvious. There are two smaller milky-white spots on the top fin, though they are tiny and haven't particularly changed since I can remember. One more thing too, it likes to float in the tank with its fins squeezed in tight, only flapping a fin or two to maintain its position in the tank. I thought this was to fight the current of the new filter, but I read it could be a sign of stress or sickness.
> 
> What do you think? Is the little guy a goner? Sick? Or just stressed from the new tank and water changes?


Fin rot or some other form of fungus probably. It's sick but may not be a goner. Search the internet for "clamped fins and white spots" and see what you can find. It'll involve medicating the tank based on your diagnosis. Bit of a baptism-by-fire for a beginner.


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## dudeman (Sep 11, 2010)

eaglescout316 said:


> Bit of a baptism-by-fire for a beginner.


You can say that again! The google machine is spitting out ick, but there are a few key missing symptoms. Most importantly, the spots aren't salt-like, and there are only two or three of them. They could even be birthmarks of sorts, for all I know! Nonetheless, I'll probably pick up some water tests soon and maybe give quick-cure a shot. I was hoping to make it through the cycle without blowing 25 bucks on a test kit (on the assumption that if there's a spike, there's not much I can do but a water replacement which I already do almost daily). I've already sunk about 85bucks into this tank, but gosh darn it, these fish will live!!! :fish:


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## eaglescout316 (Sep 13, 2010)

dudeman said:


> You can say that again! The google machine is spitting out ick, but there are a few key missing symptoms. Most importantly, the spots aren't salt-like, and there are only two or three of them. They could even be birthmarks of sorts, for all I know! Nonetheless, I'll probably pick up some water tests soon and maybe give quick-cure a shot. I was hoping to make it through the cycle without blowing 25 bucks on a test kit (on the assumption that if there's a spike, there's not much I can do but a water replacement which I already do almost daily). I've already sunk about 85bucks into this tank, but gosh darn it, these fish will live!!! :fish:


Make sure you wear rubber gloves when you defib the tank. Unfortunately you'll need the test kit to know when you're through the cycle anyhow. The book i wasted $20 on to help diagnose fish illness lists two things for clamped fins, neither make sense for you. Hopefully someone else has a better idea.


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## sq33qs (Jul 12, 2010)

Here is a link to a fish disease diagnostics tool. Hope this helps.

http://www.fishyportal.com/diag/


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

is the tank cycled?? Tank is too small for goldfish- they grow too big and poop too much.
The bigger fish may be bullying the smaller.


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

It doesn't sound like ich or fin rot to me. Goldfish sometimes have opaque patches in their fins that come and go. Doesn't mean it isn't something, but it's too vague to diagnose just based on this.

Get a test kit that tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as soon as possible and post the number values. That will help us know what is going on with the water.

A 10 gallon is too small for even 1 goldfish, let alone 2, so I would suggest planning an upgrade in the not too distant future. For now, make sure you have filtration that filters at least 100 gph. I'd also add some aeration if you don't already have it. Goldfish are freshwater fish so you don't want to have them living in permanently salted water, but it is just a temporary stop gap measure that might help while the tank cycles and we try to figure out what is wrong with your fish.

You might want to consider adding aquarium salt at an amount of 1 tsp per gallon of water. When you do a water change, make sure you add back the salt that you removed (if you replace 5 gallons of water, make sure you add back 5 tsp of salt). Goldfish are salt tolerant to a point, and adding a little salt will help act as an antiseptic if you do end up with a problem of surface infection. It will also help reduce the effect of nitrites on your fishs' health if you are not cycled yet (of course we won't know until you test the water). Make sure you use aquarium safe salt and not table salt. The salt isn't permanent, just a stop gap measure until we figure out what is going on with your water/fish.


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## dudeman (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm starting to think this is more of a water quality problem, because the fish itself doesn't really look sick. The fins are usually clamped, but not perpetually. The fish still swims around, even quickly every now and then, though it usually just slowly swims treadmill-like away from the filter. I don't have a bubbler, but I figured the filter (around 110 GPH) would make enough turbulence and move enough water to make one unnecessary. I did see my fish swimming near the top of the tank, even with their mouths out every now and then, which could point to an oxygen deficiency. 

Though I don't really have time to go out and buy an ammonia test today, I'm starting to think that's the problem. The tank is definitely not cycled, no added bacteria and only about 4 days old! Also, the gills on the small fish are dull and almost black when viewed at the right angle. Ammonia burns perhaps? I'll keep up the water changes, but the darn little guy still won't keep a flake down.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah You told us you had one goldfish.. where did the second one come from because I'm pretty sure we told you that tank wasn't even big enough for one..
Yeah your tank isn't cycled, the root of all your problems if you ask me.
Def not a fungus.


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## eaglescout316 (Sep 13, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> Yeah You told us you had one goldfish.. where did the second one come from because I'm pretty sure we told you that tank wasn't even big enough for one..
> Yeah your tank isn't cycled, the root of all your problems if you ask me.
> Def not a fungus.


He's always said he had two goldfish.


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## pinetree (Nov 29, 2009)

This fish may not be eating because it is sick and/or stressed. Most goldfish experts don't recommend flake food for goldfish. I would try something like Hikari lionhead sinking pellets, frozen bloodworms and frozen baby brine shrimp and see if it will eat those. 

The blackening could be ammonia burns.

I suggest getting more than just an ammonia test kit. Get something that tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

eaglescout316 said:


> He's always said he had two goldfish.


Yeah I got him mixed up with someone else, we get a million of these goldfish from fairs problems.


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## dudeman (Sep 11, 2010)

Tallonebball said:


> Yeah I got him mixed up with someone else, we get a million of these goldfish from fairs problems.


Yeah I know what you mean. The small fish died this morning, and I found it stuck to the filter intake. I'm gonna guess that four or five days of not eating combined with a fair amount of current just took its toll. No tests yet though, but the other fish is doing great and I'm keeping up with 25% water changes daily. 

As to ditching the fish, one of my friends actually has a small pond in his yard. It's nothing much, about 50 feet in diameter and 7 or 8 feet deep at its deepest point. It definitely doesn't freeze over the winter though, because every now and then we cut holes in the ice and make a ski jump into it! Very cold, but that's another stupid teenager story. And if that pond doesn't work out, I know another small lake where people have been known to catch stupidly big goldfish, 8-12" sometimes if you believe the stories. So I might move the goldie there when he outgrows the ten gallon, and drop some tetra or something into the cycled tank.

Anyways, thanks for the help guys. Never saved the fish, but I learned a heck of a lot trying!


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## LilSums (Aug 2, 2010)

dudeman- Velvet is the most likely problem from what you are describing but all anti-fungals usually treat an array of fungi. I know it was too late this time but possibly in the future will save you some grief


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## eaglescout316 (Sep 13, 2010)

LilSums said:


> dudeman- Velvet is the most likely problem from what you are describing but all anti-fungals usually treat an array of fungi. I know it was too late this time but possibly in the future will save you some grief


I've heard that velvet is highly contagious, i think his other goldfish would be sick by now if it was velvet.


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## LilSums (Aug 2, 2010)

@ eaglescout: You're right, it very much is & the other probably did get it; but they don't always show the physical symptoms for awhile. I used to run a fish dept at a pet store for years & policy was to leave them in & medicate the whole tank (although I usually snuck them away anyway!) and I never saw physical symptoms on any others when often I'd come back from 3-4 days off & they'd been like that, unmedicated. NOT TO SAY THIS IS THE RULE, but the physical description he gave sounded like velvet & my comment was based on what I've seen & had to treat. You are right though, when often we'd think the velvet had cleared up & stopped medicating, other would start showing signs within a week. The last time I had it in my tank, I removed the fish with velvet, gave my tank a treatment, when I thought the sick one was done & I was ready to put it back in I would notice it on some tankmates. Fungus in general is just a terror in the tank!


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