# urgent!!



## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

alright, I'm just gonna flat out admit that i really messed up on this one. i have a 10 gallon tank that ive had for about 6 months now, and have been slowly stocking it. ive heard from many people about stocking, rule of thumb is about an inch of fish per gallon. right now, im aware im way overstocked. i have 1 dragonfish (no its not huge, its like an eel about 3 inches), 2 platies, two gouramis, 2 oto catfish, a clown loach, and two headlight tailight tetras. i realize this is ten fish and way too much, but i was being stupid and figured my catfish had gotten eaten by the dragonfish even though i heard that wouldnt happen, because i hadnt seen them in 2 weeks (guess they were just hiding) so i went out and bought another two fish, and that day they turned up alive. so now i have to decide what to do, is there a way to just keep up on maintenance constantly and be able to keep it overstocked, should i get rid of a fish or two (although i really dont have any place to put them besides down the toilet, which i dont think i could ever do to a live fish). i cant upgrade at the moment, so im basically stuck. keep in mind, most of my fish are only an inch or smaller. if your just planning on posting something yelling at me for being an idiot and not giving me advice, save it. i realize i messed up, i just am looking for possible fixes. i appreciate any help i get.


----------



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

If you overfilter and do weekly water changes you may be ok.
Also i read up on dragon fish and they are brackish. Apparently if they don't have salt in the water they get some kind of slimey thing happen to them and they get ill.
Salt is NOT ok for the otos.
I have been debating getting a dragon but it will upset my other fish if I have to go brackish. 
perhaps you can return a couple of fish. if you have a real fish store near you they will sometimes take them back and give a partial credit.
what kind of gouramis are they? if they are dwarf you could be ok. If they are the blues or pink kind you are going to need a much bigger tank eventually.Also the loach needs a big tank eventually too. All my tanbks are overstocked but i continually monitor water and am scrupulous about watwr changes. I also have good filters on the tanks.
Your best bet would be to get rid of that little dragon so at least the fish don't have to put up with the salt in the water.
I know lots of people will disagree but I would try to keep all except the dragon. The tetras,ottos and gouramis do not make a real huge bio load. the platys are the big poopers there.
If you are a young person you could plead ignorance and see if the store will take pity on you if they do not usually take fish back.


----------



## MyraVan (Jan 19, 2005)

For the good of your fish, I would take everything back except the otos, the tetras and (if they are the dwarf kind) the gouramis. If the gouramis aren't dwarf, then take them back too. I think mousey's "I'm a newbie and got confused" is a good line to take at the fish shop.

Then, if you have space, get at least one more headlight tailight tetras and one more oto, as these are schooling fish and like friends. And make sure you've got enough veggies for the otos.

Even if you could maintain the current load you've got, it won't be any good for the fish, especially the schooling fish, and it will only get worse as time goes on. Anyway, the clown loach, if well cared for, can get to a foot long! And they do best in groups! It's a shame that this isn't brought to the attention of potential fish buyers. There is just not enough info on fish out in the shops, and the shop assistants don't make up for the lack of labelling.


----------



## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

aw well the dragonfish thing is a shame, he was my most expensive fish (and one of my neatest). how long do you think he'll survive without brackish? my pet stores are very stubborn about returning, and i just dont know what to do. i have time to keep up on the tank, so the overcleaning wont be a problem. im getting fed up with the petstores advice now. i was told the clown loach was not a schooling fish, and wouldnt get much bigger (hes about an inch now). one gourami is colbat blue, which again i was told he wouldnt get much bigger, and im not sure whether its a dwarf or not. the other is yellow. is there any way at all to make due with the dragonfish and maybe keep him as healthy as possible? ive had him for about a month now, and hes not showing any sign of illness, but that doesnt mean much. could i possibly add a tiny amount of salt, just enough to keep him alive but not to irritate the other fish? im guessing this isnt possible, but any other help would be great.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

There is no way to keep that tank running with that load. There is also no way to tell how long a fish will live. Thats like asking how long till a human will pass from a disease. It could be a day. It could be a year. Know this though; the fish will not live happily no matter how long it does live in that tank.


----------



## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

You should definatley take back the Clown Loach and the Dragon fish. Both of those fish will get way way way to big for you tank like 8-12in for the CL and 12-22in for the Dragon. I would take the Tetras back also, then get 2-3 more platies as the do better in a group.


----------



## Giddy012 (Feb 16, 2007)

Most real tropical fish stores will take your fish (even if you didn't buy them from there) and give you store credit.


----------



## Betta splendens (Nov 30, 2006)

MyraVan, not everyone has the option to take fish back. 

As long as the water quality is good, then you should be ok (maybe except for the aparantly brackish dragon thing)


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

Betta splendens said:


> As long as the water quality is good, then you should be ok (maybe except for the aparantly brackish dragon thing)


No, absolutely not.

The dragon fish is brackish, like everyone has already said, and needs to be taken back. If the LFS you got him from wont take him back, try to give it to another. Like it has already been said, most will probably give you some amount of store credit for it.

The clown loach is a huge No No for that tank. They get very large, up to a foot long, and need to be kept in schools. You are very overstocked, but water quality is not your only concern at this point. Your tank is inadequete for the fish you want to keep now.

And not having the option to return fish is not an excuse for keeping them in a poor environment. People should research before buying to avoid this kind of thing.


----------



## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Dragon gobies usually last about 6 months without salt in a normal aquarium until you start seeing problems. I'd also like to point out that there's no possible way that it ate your past catfish. Not only aren't most aggressive- but they're throats are too small to eat most if any fish (except when huge).


----------



## Dr_House (Aug 15, 2006)

I'll have to agree with Giddy012 on this. A small group of Platies would be appropriate stock for a 10 gallon aquarium and would be a colorful and active aquarium.

Your other option would be to keep the tetras and increase the school then perhaps adding a betta as a centerpiece.

It's unfortunate if the pet stores near you won't give credit for your fish, but most any will at least take a fish off your hands, which is what you need right now.

When it comes to taking the advice of pet stores, it's wise to remember that their focus is money. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. It is the essence of a business. There are a few that truly care about your success and will aim you in the right direction, but most are not inclined in that direction. This is not to say that they are trying to work you out of your hard-earned money, but their motive tends to be profit.

My advice is to research a fish before you buy it. As a hobbyist, it is your responsibility even though it can be extremely difficult to operate with that level of patience.


----------



## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

well, unfortunately one of my platies died, but he had been in there for a while and was exposed to the amonia and everything when i first got it. i understand i didnt look into my fish choice enough, but its not like im the first. i figured the petstores actually knew what they were talking about. and believe it or not, the petstore wont take them back. i suppose i can try to bring it somewhere else, but thats about the only other option i have. how long does the clown loach usually take to get to be full size? im no fish expert, but my friend kept one in his 10 gallon for a long time, and he only got to be about 4 inches. ive never heard of them getting to be a foot long. unless i can find another pet store, im stuck with the fish. so all i need to know now is what all can i do under my conditions to help the fish.


----------



## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

My cousin has a clown in a ten gallon temporarily- it's okay, but they need a lot of space. They're actually pretty active. And, they take _forever_ to get a good enough size- that's why 8 inchers can fetch up to 100 dollars or more. They've been growing for probably 10 years.


----------



## Dr_House (Aug 15, 2006)

Ackerman - Please don't feel I was attacking you with what I said. Most of us got into this hobby the same route you took--myself included. 

In regard to the clown loach, as flamingo already stated, they do take quite a long time to get large. Even at a small size, I don't feel a 10 gallon is an appropriate size. They also prefer the company of other clowns, which would be a huge mistake in a 10 gallon.

I would call around to other pet stores and see if anyone will take them back, even if you have to give them back for free.

It is hard to advise you how to proceed with your current setup because there is simply no way it would work in the long term. You're likely to run into a lot of problems, which again is not meant to belittle you...just to prepare you for what is to come. The best favor you can do for any fish is regular water changes. Beyond that, there really isn't any advice I can give you. :/


----------



## Kyoberr (Dec 6, 2006)

Scuba Kid said:


> And not having the option to return fish is not an excuse for keeping them in a poor environment. People should research before buying to avoid this kind of thing.


I think he realized that he made some mistakes!!! Some people like to make it look like they know the best thing for all fish. Yes, do take some back. No, you don't have to take back too many, but just some of the bigger ones like the dragonfish. Don't feel bad you didn't research them, even though it would have been a good idea.


----------



## Buggy (Oct 17, 2006)

You mentioned the rule of thumb; one inch of fish per one gal of water. We tend to make the mistake of measuring the fish at the size they are when we get them. That rule is applied to the MATURE size of the fish...how big it will be when grown. Almost all of the fish you buy from the lfs are still juvenile and have a lot of growing to do. Do some web surfing on the fish you have and see how big they will get, then do your math from that. You will be able to decide which ones you will be able to keep in a 10 gal when they are fully grown.

Fish keeping can be a very expensive hobby and it's always hard to swallow when we spend good money on a fish just to have it die or have to give it away free, but if you can find a store that will take the dragon and the clown, even if they won't give you any credit, it will be better for you, the fish, and your other tank occupants in the long run. If you have a Petco near you, they will "adopt" unwanted fish. Or you could run an ad in the newspaper or put up flyers and try to sell it. Maybe someone in your area has a nice big tank that would want these fish at a cheap price.

Good Luck


----------



## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

The best rule to use- don't use the 1 inch per gallon thing... it's almost worthless.


----------



## Guest (Feb 26, 2007)

Yep. Think of it this way:
Would you ever keep a 10 inch oscar in a 10 gallon tank? Don't think so.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

You seem to have gotten good advice from most of the members here on the board. Keep in mind we only want whats best for the fish and you. Noone like to lose a fish. We hope you will be able to return the fish and at least get store credit for them. You and the fish will be much happier.


----------



## Ackerman651 (Oct 30, 2006)

wow, this bad. last night i found both my clown loach and one of my tetras dead. i examined the tank and noticed a lot of white specks- Ick. in the morning i found my other tetra dead. im going to get a bottle of quick cure right now, and praying no more die. after all this clears up, what fish do you suggest i get, if im not already stocked? at the moment, i have 1 platy, 1 dragonfish, 2 oto catfish, and 2 gouramis.


----------



## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

How about instead of more fish... a new tank for the dragonfish so you can at least provide him the brackish water he requires.


----------

