# Female Sorority behavior



## Drakmanka (Oct 27, 2015)

So, I have two females together in a sorority tank, and for the most part they get along well. The older, and slightly larger, female is "in charge" and the younger, marginally smaller female is usually very submissive. They have little spat now and again that mostly involve some chasing and hiding, and then they're back to being normal again.
Once in a while, however, they will... Dance. I'm not sure how else to describe it. They will line up, flanking each other, their heads facing each other's tails, and will flare their fins. They beat their pectoral fins super hard and spin around and around a few times before eventually breaking off and wandering off like it never happened.
Does anyone know what this behavior means?


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Normally with a pair, it is breeding / spawning behavior.


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## Drakmanka (Oct 27, 2015)

Huh, interesting... Any ideas why two females would do it?


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

Could it be that one of them is actually a male that has short fins?


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## e048 (Dec 23, 2010)

If it was a short fin male there would be no female left 

Fish aren't like people that remember things to them each day is a new and potentially last day to live what may be fine today might not work out tomorrow 
This happens all the time, your school of serpaes are fine and dandy today and tomorrow your angelfish is torn to ribbons before your eyes by them.

How big of a tank are they in? How densely planted is it (live or fake) these all help to keep both ladies happy and healthy


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

A female sorority should be at least an odd number, that way the aggression is equalled out between the bettas.


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

e048 said:


> If it was a short fin male there would be no female left


 Not all male bettas are super aggressive, some females will beat up on the males that the aquarist had intended to breed. Weird huh?


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## chipmunk1210 (Jun 21, 2012)

Drakmanka said:


> So, I have two females together in a sorority tank, and for the most part they get along well. The older, and slightly larger, female is "in charge" and the younger, marginally smaller female is usually very submissive. They have little spat now and again that mostly involve some chasing and hiding, and then they're back to being normal again.
> Once in a while, however, they will... Dance. I'm not sure how else to describe it. They will line up, flanking each other, their heads facing each other's tails, and will flare their fins. They beat their pectoral fins super hard and spin around and around a few times before eventually breaking off and wandering off like it never happened.
> Does anyone know what this behavior means?


This kind of behavior is dominance battling. Eventually it will lead to damage to one or both females and possibly into the death of one. Female bettas are just as aggressive as males (sometimes more). Keeping them in groups (odd numbers seem to work best) of no less than 5 is preferred and causes less aggression between the females. When kept in too small of groups there is no way to divide the aggression and therefor there is a much higher risk of death.


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## Jeane09 (Nov 19, 2013)

My male cherry barbs do the same thing- line their bodies up parallel and beat their tails at each other. It looks like a dominance contest to me- they're testing each other's strength. I like watching the males spar- it often ends in a chase- but might be alarmed at bettas doing the same behavior, they're so much more aggressive.


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## TheTank (Dec 15, 2015)

BabyGirl77 said:


> A female sorority should be at least an odd number, that way the aggression is equalled out between the bettas.


Good to know! Thought about starting one myself and have not read/heard anything about keeping odd numbers. .


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## EquineSoul7294 (Nov 2, 2015)

I definitely am a believer in the "odd numbers" with the female bettas. I kept 3 together in a fairly large planted tank for nearly a year with nearly no problems. Then one of the females died (she was pretty old). I went on a weekend vacation a couple days after this, and when I returned, one of the two left had killed the other. 
That being said, I think alot also depends on the individual betta of either sex. They all have their different personalities, some being more and some being less aggressive. 
However, I just do it the easy way these days & each betta has their own private set-up.


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## TheTank (Dec 15, 2015)

EquineSoul7294 said:


> I definitely am a believer in the "odd numbers" with the female bettas. I kept 3 together in a fairly large planted tank for nearly a year with nearly no problems. Then one of the females died (she was pretty old). I went on a weekend vacation a couple days after this, and when I returned, one of the two left had killed the other.
> That being said, I think alot also depends on the individual betta of either sex. They all have their different personalities, some being more and some being less aggressive.
> However, I just do it the easy way these days & each betta has their own private set-up.


What kind of set up do you have them in?

I had gotten one recently and kept it in a 1g tank w just a heater and some tiny decorations. But I wanted to give it more room so I got a 10g tank for it and after cycling I put him in. He lasted about 3 days, then I came home after work one day and he was laying on his side and trying swim to the top but kept sinking. He died about an hour after switching him back to his old 1g. 

So I still don't know what killed him. .. Water Chemistry, Current, Stress/Disease, etc. 

I've read up a bit on em and some people will say they like a little tiny cup environment and others will say the more the better. BTW everybody is a breader when they're talking about what is best for one. 

My girlfriend went out and got another one, but im afraid to keep it in anything but this little tiny 1g which makes me feel bad for it. .


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## EquineSoul7294 (Nov 2, 2015)

I've had bettas for probaby 15-20 years, and I've had them be happy in everything from 1 gallon to 20gal. I even had a betta in one of my 75's for awhile! I'm sure it felt like the ocean to him, lol.
That being said, my favorite set-up for a happy betta is 2.5 gallon with whisper filter & small heater. I have about 4 of those set-up right now, but I do also have another betta in a 10 gallon that I grow extra java moss in. 
I think as long as you don't have them in a tiny cup like at the stores, the next best thing (although water changes are a given) to make them happy is proper temp. 
But, that's just me, from what I've noticed over the years.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Moving fish can kill them. They need water close,preferable warmer in temp and close in dissolved ions, preferably a little higher. Moving fish quickly into cold or less salty water is bad. But 3 days is too long to see a problem from that. There could be a poison in the tank like mildew proof silicone. But I'd bet the betta ate something he shouldn't have. Some plastic decor or a big wad of frozen worms.


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

emc7 said:


> Moving fish can kill them. They need water close,preferable warmer in temp and close in dissolved ions, preferably a little higher. Moving fish quickly into cold or less salty water is bad. But 3 days is too long to see a problem from that. There could be a poison in the tank like mildew proof silicone. But I'd bet the betta ate something he shouldn't have. Some plastic decor or a big wad of frozen worms.


Uh I have a question: How can moving fish kill them if they have an organ that they use to breathe air?


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## big b (Aug 17, 2014)

She didn't say anything about them breathing. Though a fish can die if there is not enough oxygen in the water, though air breathing fish can over come this. They can go into shock and sort of have a panic attack I guess and just die.


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

BabyGirl77 said:


> Uh I have a question: How can moving fish kill them if they have an organ that they use to breathe air?


Moving fish can kill them. They need water close,preferable warmer in temp and close in dissolved ions, preferably a little higher. Moving fish quickly into cold or less salty water is bad. 

If you had read the post completely, the water parameters are the up most importance in moving fish, the ability to breath air has nothing to do with it...


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

TheTank said:


> What kind of set up do you have them in?
> 
> I had gotten one recently and kept it in a 1g tank w just a heater and some tiny decorations. But I wanted to give it more room so I got a 10g tank for it and after cycling I put him in. He lasted about 3 days, then I came home after work one day and he was laying on his side and trying swim to the top but kept sinking. He died about an hour after switching him back to his old 1g.
> 
> So I still don't know what killed him. .. Water Chemistry, Current, Stress/Disease, etc.



BabyGirl77,

emc's response was to the post above in regards to the movement of fish.

Hope this answers your message.


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

Bettas are pretty resilient fish as they can withstand pretty much anything. When I got Blue Moon from Petco, I had to take the bus home, but stopped at Petsmart for the tank that he was going to be in. I didn't get home until about 4 hours after buying him. I put him in the one gallon tank while the 5.5 gallon tank was cycling. After about a day, I moved him to the 5.5 gallon tank, and he was happy. When I had problems with the nitrates, I moved him back to the one gallon so that I could get the nitrates down. Well he didn't last in the one gallon, he was sick but I didn't know what from. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that moving fish will not kill them. If everything isn't close or the same, yes that can kill them, but moving them will not. I still don't see how moving fish can kill them.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Moving fish quickly between very different water can kill them. You usually see symptoms within a few hours and they die overnight. Cold water or super-soft water are common culprits. Some stores that heavily salt their systems can set you up for failure when you bring fish home to soft water. If you have decently hard water or only move around between your own water you should never see this. But its something to keep in mind if you buy fish online or at a big auction. And fish can get squashed by nets or decor during a chase, esp. with a new hire at at petchain.


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

When I think about moving fish, I think using net or hands to move fish. So what you are saying emc7, is that different conditions can/will kill fish, not that moving fish will kill them?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

Moving fish from one environment to another without first making sure that the parameters in each is very close to being the same can cause death to the fish.it is not that they might be out of the water.....


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

Then it is the different conditions in the tanks that kill the fish, not the moving of the fish. Because when you move a fish, you net it and you move it to the next tank; but, if the conditions in the next tank are not the same, then that can kill the fish.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

that is what was stated........a couple of times.


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

emc7 said:


> Moving fish quickly between very different water can kill them.


This clarified the first statement, "Moving fish can kill them." ?


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

So, what is actually being said is that fish cannot be out of water for any amount of time even when moving them to another tank, because they will die in transit without water surrounding them?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

reading is fundamental !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that was never said.......


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

Please help me understand what is actually being said, loha.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

as was stated several times..........
when fish are moved to different water conditions , those different conditions can kill them..be it PH , DH , KH , temperature etc.
nothing was inferred that their dying from just being out of the water...


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

May I add, 

When moving fish to different water parameters, it is very important to _ acclimate _ the fish to the new water conditions in a manner as to not shock the fish.


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

lohachata said:


> as was stated several times..........
> when fish are moved to different water conditions , those different conditions can kill them..be it PH , DH , KH , temperature etc.
> nothing was inferred that their dying from just being out of the water...


Okay. That is what I was getting that they died in transit to another tank, when emc7 stated that moving fish can kill them. Why couldn't different water conditions can kill fish, instead of moving fish can kill them?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

Omg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BabyGirl77 (Nov 2, 2015)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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