# Are my rams unhappy?



## Pandapop

So, I've owned two German Blue Rams for a little over a month now, and their color is NOTHING like that I've seen in pictures. 

They're dull... very dull. Sometimes if the light hits them just right, there's a light-blue 'shine' on their scales. But everything else on their bodies is just a soft gray.

Are my rams still juvies? I've suspected that they were, but I'm very unsure, as they seem adult-sized. I also have no idea what genders they are. Neither fish has that 'pink belly' the females are supposed to get... but as mentioned above, they really aren't showing much color _at all_.

Are my rams unhappy? Because they seem happy. I mean, they're eating, they're active, they're friendly... I don't understand?

They're in a 20gal high with some guppies. I have a HUGE shell that my grandparents had for their old tank, years ago. I assumed they could use that as a breeding cave, if I have both male and female. I AM going to get a cichlid cave, though.

The water-temp has been a constant 78-80 farenheit. I heard/have read around that upping the tank temperature would help show their color. This hasn't worked for me.

They follow each other around constantly, but sometimes 'fight' when it's feeding time. They don't hurt eachother, they merely pop their lips out and force the other away from their food.

My rams look just like this guy, here (who IS a juvie):










At what age do rams tend to show their real colors? 

Also, one of my rams is smaller than the other, but I'm assuming they're around the same age. My LFS had a bunch in stock from the same supplier, and all were around the same size and age -- all very dull colored. Could my smaller ram be a female? Or just a small male?

I TRIED to pick out one that I thought looked closest to a female, by all the information I picked up off the net. I think it's male, though. The dorsal fin goes past the end of the body (females aren't supposed to, usually?), and the tail-fin isn't rounded at the edges, it's pointed and elongated.

Now, these are my two rams. The picture was taken three days after I got them. The 'smaller' one I mentioned is on the left.


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## BV77

what is the ph of the water? I have had little luck keeping German blue, or the gold rams in my water...it is 7.4. I don't alter my water. I have had good luck with Bolivian rams and other soft water fish in my water......maybe the blues and golds are just more sensitive to an improper ph.


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## emc7

You're right, I've never seen German blue rams with so little color. They look more like Bolivian rams. Wild rams vary in color quite a bit (some are mostly yellow, some more red). Fish will also "pale out" over a light substrate in bright light. Add some more cover, maybe a floating plant to dim the light.


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## Pandapop

Well, just the other night I had to do a 60% water change... a fish had died, and I wasn't around until the next day. I'm paranoid about dead fish making my other babies ill. So anyway, I took out the sand and put in some white, pink and purple gravel. (ugly, I wanted black. I'll be getting black soon.) 

I'll try your suggestion emc7, and get more floating plants to dim the light. 

I just looked up Bolivian Rams, and I think you two are right. I noticed that GBR's have red eyes? Mine don't, and neither do BR's. I guess the LFS needs to re-name their rams. I'll bring it up to them next time I'm there. 

Though still, my rams should be brighter colored... the red on their fins is showing up now, it wasn't the first few days I had them. They yellow around the front portion of their body (as seen in my pic) is showing, too. 

I wanted GBR's... but, oh well. It's okay I guess. My rams are full of personality, and I do love them. Maybe next time I'll make an online order and get real GBR's. c:

Do you guys think my rams are juvies though? 
Or is it just as emc7 says -- light substrate + bright lights = pale fish?


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## Pandapop

Oh and as for pH, mine's around that too, BV77. I've never seen it go above 7.6 or below 7.3.


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## emc7

Bolivians get bigger, so if thats what you have and they are adult GBR size, they are still juvies. Bolivian are more red, but have very little blue. All the nice ram pics you see on the web are "peak" color, and they aren't that stunning every day. Bolivians are a bit hardier and more tolerant of higher pH water and lower temp than the GBR. Thats the other thing to check: temp. GBRs like discus temps.


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## Pandapop

I lowered the temperature in the tank after I started noticing that my swordtails I had in there were dying or becoming ill (they perked back up after the temp was decreased, and I removed them from the main tank). I didn't know that swords disliked the warmer temperatures... but that seemed to be the only problem?

So, GBR's prefer a tank temp of about 80-82°F, right? I read around and that seems to be the preferred temperature for Discus. 

The net is telling me that BR's prefer anywhere from 74-78°F... right now my tank should be around 75-76°F. It's easier on the guppies, too, I think.


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## BV77

This is a bolivian ram...the markings around the eyes of yours kinda look more like a German blue ram to me.


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## Revolution1221

those are def bolivians the pink tails are a dead give away and the more slanted head. german blue rams are more rounded.


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