# Help please



## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

HELP. As some of you know i recently set up my 125g. I moved all my fish from the 75g into it. At that time (about 5 days) all the fish looked to be fine. But some of the Columbian tetras have been hiding under the drift wood out of my sight.

Well today finally the largest of them came out of hiding. And there is white stuff around his mouth. All of the other fish look normal.

Please let me know what you think it could be? I don't know if he got hurt, attacked, or if it is fungal or bacterial? I have no clue, so please help.


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

I can't really tell from the picture. Can you post better pics? It could be mouth fungus. If you haven't already, you should separate the "sick" fish from the others.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

I put him back into my 75g that i still had up and running. Here are some more pictures i just took. I think it is getting worse quickly.

I feel so horrible and like a failure at fish keeping 

Right side: (which is worse)

















Left side:


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## Betta man (Mar 25, 2011)

Don't feel like a failure. The fish could have come with the disease.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Woke up this morning to find him half dead, upside down just taking a breath once in a while.

Now my main concern is my other fish. Any idea's on what this was? Or how i can prevent it in my other fish?


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## Lori (Feb 8, 2012)

Could be lack of cycling the new tank. I too recently upgraded tanks. You mentioned that the old tank was still running? Did you move the gravel from the old to the new?
When I did my transfer, I was instructed to move all gravel (un-vacuumed) to the larger tank and put the filter mediums directly in the new tank to help colonize the bacteria in the new tank. I left it there for several weeks.
In my opinion (and I am not an expert) the fish were stressed, a bacterial infection set in to the already weakened fish. It could be mouth fungus. I would suggest treating for such and/or anti-bacteria medicated food. Test the water. I think new tank syn. is to blame.


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

Could it be cotton mouth? It looks like it. I'm pretty sure it's bacterial/fungal, so try melafix... 

"The victim fish shows a whitish fungus round the cheeks and lips. The lips may become swollen and rot away. Sometimes a rotten strip of lip attached only at one end will move in and out of the mouth as the fish breathes.

Fish infected with Mouth Fungus lose their appetite and their movement become sluggish. If no adequate treatment is given, the whole frontal part of the head may be eaten away finally and the fish dies.

Unless the affected fish is of consideration value, it should be killed before this fatal disease attack sthe other occupants, of the tank. Think about it... is trying to save the life of one fish worth risking the death of the rest of the fish in your aquarium?

But if you insist on keeping the fish or in case the infection has already been passed on to other occupants, the following treatment is advised:

- Swabbing the mouth of the victim fish with a soft cloth dipped in strong salt solution. Then you must then keep the patreat isolated in a bucket or jar containing a strong salt water.

- Try swabbing the lips with a 5 per cent silver mercury preparation.

- Make a solution of Terramycin or Aureomycuin by dissolving 50mg per gallon of water, a rapid cure is expected within 48 hours.

You can try all of the above remedies, but the most common remedy is the popular Methylene blue solution. To perform this remedy the sick fish should be placed in a jar, bucket or a treatment tank into which has been added a methylene per blue to colour the water deep blue."
"Often mistaken for a fungal infection because of its mold-like lesions, Columnaris is a common bacterial infection in cultured fish, particularly livebearing fish and catfish. Its name is derived from columnar shaped bacteria, which are present in virtually all aquarium environments.
The bacteria are most likely to infect fish that have been stressed by conditions such as poor water quality, inadequate diet, or stress from handling and shipping. Columnaris can enter the fish through the gills, mouth, or via small wounds on the skin. The disease is highly contagious and may be spread through contaminated nets, specimen containers, and even food. For this reason it is important to use sterile techniques to avoid contaminating other tanks. Prophylactically treating other tanks is wise, especially if they share a common filtration system.
Columnaris can be external or internal and may follow a chronic or acute course. Lesions in chronic cases progress slowly, taking many days before culminating in fish death. In acute cases the lesions spread quickly, often wiping out entire populations of fish within hours. High water temperatures accelerate the progression of the disease; however lowering the water temp will not affect the outcome of the disease.
Symptoms:

White spots on mouth, edges of scales, and fins 
Cottony growth that eats away at the mouth
Fins disintegrate beginning at the edges
'Saddleback' lesion near the dorsal fin
Fungus often invades the affected skin
Rapid gilling in cases where gills are infected
Most Columnaris infections are external, and present first as white or grayish white spots on the head, and around the fins or gills. The lesions may first be seen only as a paler area that lacks the normal shiny appearance. As the lesion progresses it may become yellowish or brownish in color and the area around it may be tinged red.
Lesions on the back often extend down the sides, giving the appearance of a saddle. On the mouth the lesions may look moldy or cottony, and the mouth will become eaten away. Fins will erode and have a frayed appearance as the infection progresses. The gills filaments will disintegrate as the bacteria invade them, and the fish will begin breathing rapidly due to lack of oxygen. Less commonly, the infection will be internal, and display no external symptoms. In these cases, only a necropsy and cultures will point to the true cause of death.
Treatment:

Change water
Vacuum gravel
Add aquarium salt
Treat with copper sulfate or antibiotic
Discontinue carbon filtration during treatment
External infections should be treated with antibiotics or chemicals in the water. Copper sulfate, Acriflavine, Furan, and Terramycin may all be used externally to treat Columnaris. Terramycin has proven to be quite effective both as a bath, and when used to treat foods for internal infections. Salt may be added to the water to enhance gill function. Livebearers in particular will benefit from the addition of salt, however use caution when treating catfish, as many are sensitive to salt. When in doubt error on the side of caution when using salt."

Hope this helps, as I don't know much about diseases.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Lori said:


> Could be lack of cycling the new tank. I too recently upgraded tanks. You mentioned that the old tank was still running? Did you move the gravel from the old to the new? . . . I think new tank syn. is to blame.


With the new tank i put in eco complete as the new substrate for the plants. But i put two used filter pads in the tank about a week before moving the fish. When i moved the fish i put the two HOB's from the 75g on the tank as well as the two new canisters. I figured this would be enough to seed the cycle. I have been measuring the levels daily. So far the ammonia has not been elevated but the nitrites are a little elevated. So i have been doing water changes every other day.




iheartfish:) said:


> Could it be cotton mouth? It looks like it. I'm pretty sure it's bacterial/fungal, so try melafix...


He died about 15 mins after i posted. So should i treat my whole 125g tank? Or just watch for signs and if another fish shows signs separate him and then treat? As i said before, no other fish have signs of something being wrong yet.


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## iheartfish:) (Jan 19, 2011)

Well, like I said, I'm not good with diseases. But I would say that yes you should treat the whole tank because if it is in fact cotton mouth, it's extremely contagious. Before treating, though, wait for one of the senior members to tell you what to use.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

iheartfish:) said:


> Well, like I said, I'm not good with diseases. But I would say that yes you should treat the whole tank because if it is in fact cotton mouth, it's extremely contagious. Before treating, though, wait for one of the senior members to tell you what to use.


Thank you for all your help. I do have maracyn-oxy on hand.

Before I dose my whole 125g tank, can anyone else give advice on whether it is a good idea to treat the whole tank? Or just watch the fish and if one develops symptoms move the infected one out and treat just that fish?

Thank you all again! I really appreciate any help you can give!


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

iheartfish:) said:


> Could it be cotton mouth? It looks like it. I'm pretty sure it's bacterial/fungal, so try melafix...
> 
> - Swabbing the mouth of the victim fish with a soft cloth dipped in strong salt solution. Then you must then keep the patreat isolated in a bucket or jar containing a strong salt water.
> 
> ...


Had to edit down the post a LOT, lol. 
Ok, first, YES it certainly looks like cotton mouth/mouth fungus. This is usually caused by a bacterial infection, even in cases of it being 'mouth fungus'.
Second, the thought of treating anything with mercury...*winces*
A hydrogen peroxide at 2% would be what I would suggest, if any sort of direct application. 
Triple sulfa and Ethromycin would be two readily available antibiotics. Petsmart always carries them, it seems.
If it IS fungal, MB would work.
If it were columnaris, there would be more symptoms to it usually. Not just the mouth messing up.
Of course, it could ALSO be mouth rot. I BELIEVE that is a bacterial infection as well though...


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Kimberly said:


> Thank you for all your help. I do have maracyn-oxy on hand.
> 
> Before I dose my whole 125g tank, can anyone else give advice on whether it is a good idea to treat the whole tank? Or just watch the fish and if one develops symptoms move the infected one out and treat just that fish?
> 
> Thank you all again! I really appreciate any help you can give!


I would do a MAJOR clean on the tank, remove the infected fish into a small treatment tank. You're going to need to clean the tank anyways, for the deaths, and if you were to treat the whole tank. Remember to remove carbon!


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Okay. So i am in the process of doing another large water change. I am going to be doing daily ones.

So from what everyone has said, it is probably bacterial.
I have two medicines. Melafix and maracyn-oxy.
If anyone could tell me which one to use, that would be great.
If no one responds by the time i'm done with the water change, i'm going to use melafix.

Thank you all!! I really appreciate it.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Update: finished the large water change. Carbon out of filters. Dosed melafix as bottle said, 1tsp per 10g.

Now my new question is: Am i suppose to dose this everyday? That seems like a lot to me. But then again what do i really know. Also, the bottle says wait to do a water change until the 7th day dosing. This seems far to long to me. If i do 20-30g water change every day and dose the melafix everyday for 125g, should this work to cure them?

Oh, and will this harm my plants at all?


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## P.senegalus (Aug 18, 2011)

On drsfostersmith.com, it says melafix is safe to use with plants, but I don't have any live plants(except java moss) and I have never used melafix.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Melafix is a very MILD antibacterial. While it is natural, it is also not very effective against true bacterial infections. Its good with open sores. Make sure you aerate the tank a LOT during this, using a bubbler, because the melafix can sometimes make it hard for the fish to breath.
If what your fish have is an actual bacterial infection, you will most likely need REAL antibiotics, seeing as bacterial infections are very aggressive and will infect other fish. Melafix would be a good treatment as a preventive measure in the tank, but I would take the already symptom-showing fish out, and put them in a small tank to treat with stronger medication.
Maracyn-oxy is a NON-antibiotic medication. It treats true fungal infections, and bacterial infections of fin and tail rot. In other words, no. This will not work.


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Sorafish said:


> Melafix is a very MILD antibacterial. While it is natural, it is also not very effective against true bacterial infections. Its good with open sores. Make sure you aerate the tank a LOT during this, using a bubbler, because the melafix can sometimes make it hard for the fish to breath.
> If what your fish have is an actual bacterial infection, you will most likely need REAL antibiotics, seeing as bacterial infections are very aggressive and will infect other fish. Melafix would be a good treatment as a preventive measure in the tank, but I would take the already symptom-showing fish out, and put them in a small tank to treat with stronger medication.
> Maracyn-oxy is a NON-antibiotic medication. It treats true fungal infections, and bacterial infections of fin and tail rot. In other words, no. This will not work.


Ugh, this sucks.. I feel so over whelmed and that i have no hope to help my poor fish 

So is it a good idea to keep dosing the large tank for a week to prevent other fish from getting it? And then take the fish that are symptomatic and put them in my spare 5g to treat? So can you give me a name of a product that i can buy to treat the fish that are symptomatic?

PS thank you so much for your time and help. I greatly appreciate it!


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

NP. If possible, I would remove infected fish as soon as possible, treating both tanks until you can get the medication they need. Triple sulfa and ethromycin are two really good antibiotics by API that petsmart carries. I've used both at the same time with no deaths, and the combination has gotten my fish through columnaris, so you know its powerful. But you should be able to get away with just one or the other.
And yes, treat the tank for a week. Walmart is the cheapest place to get melafix, i've found. (since you're treating a LOT of water.)


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Woke up this morning to find a cory dead. After watching the fish for awhile i think i'm going to take out most of the corys and treat them in the 5g. I think their mouths look a shade lighter then they should. Better safe then sorry. Other then that all other fish still appear to be normal.

I am planning on picking up both of those medicines today. And do exactly as you advised. Thank you again for all your help.


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## Sorafish (Sep 15, 2011)

Kimberly said:


> Woke up this morning to find a cory dead. After watching the fish for awhile i think i'm going to take out most of the corys and treat them in the 5g. I think their mouths look a shade lighter then they should. Better safe then sorry. Other then that all other fish still appear to be normal.
> 
> I am planning on picking up both of those medicines today. And do exactly as you advised. Thank you again for all your help.


Bottom feeders are a bit tricky, considering their mouths. Just make sure you DONT add any salt to your cory tank. They really don't like it.

How are your tetra doing?


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## Kimberly (Jan 22, 2012)

Sorafish said:


> Bottom feeders are a bit tricky, considering their mouths. Just make sure you DONT add any salt to your cory tank. They really don't like it.
> 
> How are your tetra doing?


After looking at the bottom feeders i'm probably a little paranoid, since the one had symptoms and then the next day was dead. To me, most appeared to have whitish mouths so i moved them all.

The tetra's look normal so far. As do the rest of the fish. But i am closely monitoring them all. 

I did the second dose of melafix on the 125g and did the first dose of the two medicines you recommend this evening on the 5g.

I am just hoping for the best.


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