# fish disappearing, synodontis to blame?



## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

I have a large synodontis who is territorial, but tends to live in his pot all day.. however my two bristle nose cat fish in the last week have been found dead with little reminants.. and i bought some keyhole cichlids and one has completely vanished.. i'm convinced its him killing them and then my apple snails are having ago at the remains..
but i dont want to blame him if its possibly not him?

its sad but if it is him he may have to go to a new home, because i dont want to lose my peaceful community! & dont intend on keep big cichlids again.. 

so just wondered your opinions on whether this is possible?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you don't catch it in the act, you can't know that they weren't killed by disease or water quality, so check everything. Even one dead fish in a small tank can foul the water and kill more. 

On the other hand most synodontis eat other fish even as babies and are never going to be "peaceful community' fish. 

The keyhole could still be alive, they are amazing hiders.


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## Bettawhisperer (Oct 1, 2010)

I am having the same problem with mine eating his tank mates. I am going to get rid of him soon. He's about 6" long now. He's so pretty but I just can't have him eating everything.


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## FishMatt (May 12, 2010)

Hmmm..... Synods aren't usually "mean" I have 5.5 inch FeatherFin and he doesn't attack fish he doesn't kill fish... He sometimes chases my Pictus but not aggressively. As emc7 said check your water.


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## Bettawhisperer (Oct 1, 2010)

LOL I'm sorry I was confused. I was thinking of the pictus cat I have. He's the one that eats everything. I also have a 5' feather fin that is very peaceful.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

keyholes deffinately disappeared, waters fine, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, caught him chasing dwarf gourami.. he use to live with guppies til he was 6 inches but hes 8 inches now :/


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

I've never had aggression issues from Synodontis of any species. It seems more likely the cichlid died for some other reason, then became snail food.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

An 8" syno can probably open its mouth 2". Any thing that fits, is lunch. A fish that vanishes with no trace overnight with a round-bellied cat in the morning is normal behavior. Killing without eating is out of character, but cats will fight for hiding spots.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

hmm, maybe if i increase hiding spots? i'm going to move my live bearers out of their planted tall 3ft and sell some/trade some in, and pop them into a two foot which my betta is currently living in, he'll have to go into a 1 foot if he wont coexsist.. i'm then going to move my 3 young angels to the planted with my dwarf gourami's.. apple snails to go in 2ft with live bearers.. and then syno will have to find a place.. maybe the 3 foot not sure how he'll cope, might have to make my friend look after him for a while, he has a fish shop  maybe he'll hold him 

any way.. the plan is to plant my 5 foot bow.. so obviously need to put in substate etc which means draining the tank.. anyway my plan is to help cycling to hold some of the water ie half.. and then top up with a lil from my 3foot, and the rest clean new water.. so roughly a 30% water change so this should be fine.. and the 3foot has loads of plant nutirents anyway! 

any idea on which plants would benefit in my 5foot deep? amazon swords i was thinking for the angels? and some aponegetons? & i have two pieces of fantastic bog wood which i'm thinking of mossing? as for the syno i'm thinking i'll get him a nice big flower pot either up turned with a chipped out entrance or turn it on the side and put a roof tile over the opening with a gap for him, and then maybe moss on top? i'm gunna put in a co2 diffuser, only probably an easy air compressed air can hook up (used it in my 3 foor whilst the swords were growing) didnt need it after they grew, and didnt need extra ferts either  anyway any thoughts? this way hopefully syno will be happy with plants and more hiding spaces?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Once a fish has discovered "live food", he's unlikely to stop hunting. 

Light penetration falls off exponentially with water depth, so in a really deep tank, you'll need a really bright light, a shelf, or really low-light plants.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

thinking low light plants, its not too deep but its deeper than the average, my units not bad though, poss amazon swords, java fern & moss, and just aponogeton bulbs, theyve done well in my other tank with around the same wattage ratio. just need to find a good substrate now!


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

he has been eating my fish. he dragged one of my £50 extra long fin veil breeding angels into his pot last night and feasted on it. very very very upset hes now cost me alot of money and a fully functional breeding pair of angels and 8 months worth of waiting and work!!!!! hes lucky i dont knock him on the head. i now have to start the juvenile angel process all over again. hes going to my lfs which i dont visit often with the warning hes a c***. & i know he did this.. should of got rid a long time ago.


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## Revolution1221 (Apr 20, 2010)

im sorry to hear that. it always sucks to lose a prized fish to a not so important one. had that happen a couple times. like when our fish distributor at work sent me some marbled sand gobys instead of purple spoted gudgeons. i had not choice but to take them home and they killed my mudskipper.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sorry to hear. The mouth rule applies and those thing both have big mouths and grow more quickly than other fish. Even African cichlid keepers don't put them in with cichlid because they eat the fry.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

oh no. yeah i think its time for my big community to come down.. i got hold of 6 juvies from a friend, tiny little angels about 3 cms so no idea how they will turn out or if their veil or what lol. so pot luck! the other two are going to have to go to my friend with a store and the syno hes going to another store i think!


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

What color is the Syno? Is it black all over with a few gold or silver "flakes" on the sides?


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

greyish dark brown with black spots and high fin, i got a pic of him smaller on here i'll get it


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

hes about 4 inches here hes now about 6-8 inches


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## cossie (Dec 19, 2010)

he looks like a tank lol

have you taken him to your lfs yet???


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

I was thinking maybe you had an Asian upside-down catfish. They look like Syno's but are generally nastier all around. That's a S. eupterus, I've kept them for years w/out any aggression issues. However, I usually get small juvies and keep them with similar-size cichlids and BN pleco's. They also tend to get quite fat after they grow out, yours won't get any larger now.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

hes not gone yet, but i have been keeping an eye on the tank he had a pic at my zebra veil angel and it gave him a nasty bite on his face.. hes got a white mark there now so waiting for that to clear up and then hes going! i'm going to get a new heater today so i';; ask if they can give me any discount against him  i'll take a pic of him before he goes lol, and show you the size of the evil thing. he really is huge they havent got anything near as big bellied and long and high as him there.. hes huge.. and about 4 years old i think... if not 5!


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

He's still young, the buggers can live up to 20 years.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

hmm looks like i'll be stuck with him for abit longer, i took a trip to the store today and one of their synos had their gill ripped apart, as much as i dont like him i'd hate to send him to somewhere they're gunna poss put him to harm.. their usually ok that store.. i fish from them but today, they put me off :/


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## Bettawhisperer (Oct 1, 2010)

i have one in a guppy tank and have had no problems with it in there. Mine is about 5".


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## toddnbecka (Jun 30, 2006)

I know how you feel, but did the injured Syno come into the shop in that condition? I see torn up fish at my lf that other folks have brought in after they got thrashed much more often than it happens in the store because they're mixed with the wrong tankmates.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

hmmm i'm not sure just looked horrible, they are kind of going down hill, one of the god guys have left and i wanted some sevrums the other week and i went in and they were all infested with whitespot.. i know they're not on sell but its just becoming a pain because they are usually so good. i guess you cant help it even with somewhere reliable they always get the odd bad batch in, or as you said someone has brought a bad one in. hes still here as of yet, and nothing else has been attacked as of yet, but he will be going


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

syno's now gone a man collected him who breeds frontosa's & within a few hours of him being gone my apple snails brought their faces fromk their shells (which was very rare) &&&&& the missing keyhole cichlid came out from where ever it was?!? but its tiny compared to the other and seems to be swimming a little funny.. its eating well though and seems ok.. strange lol.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

lol, told you they hide well. Most invisible cichlid I've ever had.


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

its so strange its almost like it has been trapped somewhere the other one is easily double its size, hes doing very well now though thankfully


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You could have a pair. Smaller females are the easiest way to sort them.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

i have kept quite a few species of synodontis over the past 35+ years..i love the eupterus..i have head them reach 12"..i had a decorus that was almost 15"...they are fantastic characters....never had a problem with them attacking others....
many fish hide because they are just intimidated by sheer size of other fish..


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## charking (Aug 12, 2009)

he definately had my angel maybe it was territorial, i actually found the half eaten angel fish in his pot whilst he was in the munching away.. its not like he was every under fed, they had blood worm pellet put in twice a day and a good 5-10 pellets, aswell as flake and live brine.. strange


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