# wanting to buy some black convicts



## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

hello my name is darick. ive been tryin to get these common cichilds at the local pet stores-but seems either they cant get them or wont,so i was hopeing some breeder could help me out i would look to buy maybe 10-20 of them,of course paying shipping price.if people could get back to me on this or maybe give me the email or phone number of a US black convict breeder

i would be most thankfull



darick


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Convicts are very apealing. I hope you find some.
What sized tank do you have?


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

*2x75g 140 155*

i have a few my favorites is my 75s.i hope to cross breed convicts and red terrors. in my 40gallon


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

have you checked petsmart, the one here almost always has convicts in stock.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

darick_blackcon said:


> i have a few my favorites is my 75s.i hope to cross breed convicts and red terrors. in my 40gallon


Good luck, breeding two different species together is very difficult.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Cichlid Man said:


> Good luck, breeding two different species together is very difficult.


Especially since one is a 12" fish and the other is 4". The bigger question is "WHY".


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

ron v said:


> Especially since one is a 12" fish and the other is 4". The bigger question is "WHY".










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They look pretty bland as youngsters, but may get a little color when older. Who knows?


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

*i dont know why.i wanna do it there just my favorite fish*

i think people misunderstoud me i dont want some petco fish farm cons
i want tank raised beautys.perfect bars colours i mean vibrante colours


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I suspect that anybody willing to truly "breed" convicts (ie culling for color and conformation, not 'just add water and watch'm multiply') would be unlikely to co-operate in an attempt to add yet another hybrid cichlid into the world.

Especially since at least a few cichlid-nuts I know suspect that there is a fair amount of _nigrofasciatus_ genes in the 'bloody parrot' frankenfish. Who wants to be the great-great-grand father of the next "bloody parrot" or "flowerhorn" type controversy ?

I've generally found that the people who would be willing to breed a cichlid strain for color (etc) *and *who are interested in _"Cryptoheros/Archocentrus"_ tend to go for a more rare fish - _saijica_, Honduran red-points, etc. (at least in my area).


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

*well i dont think i will sell them.*

 if i could do it.not saying i could but i would more then likely kill all the babys off but a hand-full for my own tanks, i dont sell fish i dont breed my fish to sale,but hey people do do that and thats kool.Maybe one day i can sell some nice fish but i would only sell pure breed fish.but hey if someone has done this and can assist me in breeding these it would be very nice to have a hand ot a mentor to look up to about the situation


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Hybrids are only good in the aquarium trade if they are better in terms of their size or color overall than their parents. Most hybrid fish are frowned upon deeply in the aquarium trade. Especially ugly ones.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm sorry folks. I was gonna refrain from stating my opinion in this thread, but I just can't help it. This is one of my "hot button" issues. I am violently opposed to ANY hybrids in the aquarium hobby. I know what I think is not going to change anyone's mind, but I can't just not say anything. One day we will all wake up and go down to our lfs and find one cichlid for sale. It will be a hybrid mix of every cichlid that ever existed. ( little exaggeration maybe, but hopefully you get my point ).


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

well really if u dont wanna help me why are u posting on here still,i wanted help not a hender,or someone trying to discourage me from doing something that i wanna do sorry if thats the way u feel but im sure not all of us in the world feel the same way,if i cross breed for my own tanks fine i do it i dont sell it.thats where people make mistakes,so come on find someone else to rag on


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm sorry darick. I'm not "ragging" on you. It's just something that really bothers me. I have no reason to doubt that you are responsible enough to keep any hybrids out of the hobby. You did mention it before I did, so I'm sure you are aware of the problem. 
Many people that create a hybrid that turns out looking great ( like a flowerhorn for example ), can't resist the $$$$$ that could come! If I had a couple of hundred hybrid red terror x convict babys that someone wanted to pay $40-$50 each for, I would sell them in a minute, Not a lot of people would be able to resist that.


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## Lisachromis (Jan 19, 2005)

ron v said:


> I'm sorry folks. I was gonna refrain from stating my opinion in this thread, but I just can't help it. This is one of my "hot button" issues. I am violently opposed to ANY hybrids in the aquarium hobby. I know what I think is not going to change anyone's mind, but I can't just not say anything. One day we will all wake up and go down to our lfs and find one cichlid for sale. It will be a hybrid mix of every cichlid that ever existed. ( little exaggeration maybe, but hopefully you get my point ).


Here here! I completely agree. Why make a new fish when the 'normal' ones are all beautiful as they are. If they want changes, linebreed them, just like goldfish.


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

why does it matter if i want a new breed seems to me its not a new breed.so i dont really see the harm if i dont sell them,or give them away and beyond all that i wanna let u know that i dont run community tanks,i run predator tanks, i feed all my fish live foods.or frozen so chances arent great for the fry,so lets say i have 100fish from the cross,so maybe 50% lives ok now lets think of the fish i run in here,oscarsx4 green terrorx3 black convictsx12 african somethinsx2 red belly pacu salvinax4 midasx2 texas cichildsx2 and also 2red terrors ok so lets say now 5 of those 50 babys live
come on
for aweek or two now lets say 1 maybe lives for breif glimmer of a momment,ok lets say now that maybe realisticly that 5 6 live,let me tell u after all the time it would take to see all this happen i wont wanna sell my babys,considering i have alrdy stated i like these two breeds the best and now have seen a pic of wat it may look like,or may not,but i willing to take the chance ,i have no need to make the profit from wat some call mutt fish,it can be my mutt and i will call them betty's


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

oh yea i like how the theroy of the one man who cross breeds,his cichilds seems to be the end of a pure breed lines


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Purity of species is either an issue with you or it's not. There is no "right or wrong" answer, it's an opinion. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. No one is going to try to stop your experiment, but if you choose to discuss it on this forum, I have a right ( maybe even an obligation ) to voice my disfavor. I want other members of this forum, that maybe have not yet formed an opinion, to know that some prople are opposed to what you are doing.


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## redpaulhus (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm of two minds on hybrid fishes.

On the one hand - if we didn't have hybrids, we wouldn't have 95+% of the livebearers in LFS today - most "swords" and "platies" you find in stores have both swordtail and platy genes, its rare to find a true wild-type sword or platy.
How about all of the "OB pea****s" I'm seeing lately ? I was told that the OB comes from a wee bit of OB zebra someplace in their ancestry... 

Discus and Angels - are any of the commonly cultivated discus or angel strains "true" wild-type strains ? Or are they hybrids of different closely related species (ie Heckel discus x blue discus cross, altum x scalere, etc ?)

And what about intra-specific hybrids ? Is it good or bad to cross _Pelvicachromis teaniatus_ 'molowi' with _P. taeniatus_ 'wouri' ? They're both considered the same species, but from different locations -- isn't that what we've been doing for 50+ years with most of the SA\CA cichlids ? 
How many times have I been told to make sure I add some "outside" genes into a breeding program - "don't just breed fish from the same store or parents over and over, mix in some from another source." 
What are the odds that two different groups of firemouths are from the same original wild location ? If I cross a firemouth line that has better color with one that has better fins, am I actually crossing fish who's ancestors were from different wild populations ? Am I creating intra-specific hybrids ?

I wonder what the SA/CA cichlid scene would look like if it was handled with the same mentality as the killifish and west african cichlid parts of the hobby ? Would I have three tanks with three strains of firemouth, like I do with "kribs" and their relatives ?

On the other hand - I'd like to remove all of the poor deformed "bloody parrots" and flowerhorns from the hobby forever. (*and* the moron flowerhorn owners who come into the store asking me where they can get steroids for their flowerhorns, "cuz they're not growin fast enough" - maybe that's because you have too small a tank, don't change water enough, and are pushing the diet too far towards high fat foods instead of balanced nutrition ?)


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

So you are in favor of hybrid swordtails but against flowerhorns???? Sounds like you are sort-of undecided on your stance. Course that's what you said. That's OK. It's kind of hard to know exactly where to draw the line, so the line doesn't get drawn and we continue down the same path. As I said you are either for it or against it.


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## Lisachromis (Jan 19, 2005)

The thing about crossing locales is this... maybe one day scientists will discover that in fact, they aren't the same species but 2 different ones, and all the fish that were using those locales together have hopelessly mangled the genetics. 

The Central scene is getting like the killi scene. People want specific locales of certain species. (They don't go so far as the year, etc.) The problem with Centrals is that they can cross-breed so easily with each other. (Just like a lot of Malawians!) As far as getting new blood goes, the genetics for fish is a bit different than with some other creatures. They can have alot of fry that can carry many different variables in them. The need to outcross is lessened, but not totally gone. So, if you have been breeding your fish for a while, it wouldn't hurt to get another from the same locale if at all possible. Even letting different males spawn with the female helps. I know with some species that's going to be tough, e.g. convicts and firemouths. (Though, I do happen to know where my firemouths come from, since I got mine from the guy who collected the original parents for his tanks)

The other thing about having crosses is, say you won't let them out of your tanks, except maybe to a friend or two who like the looks. Who's to say that they won't cross back to one of the original species? For those people that like the purity of the species, they'll be getting a cross without realizing it. They might realize if they happen to breed those fish and get some throwbacks to the other species in the fry (or fish with those characteristics). It's not that we don't believe that you'll keep these fish out of the regular hobby, it's the 'dishonest' people. The ones that'll tell you that, yes, these are pure when they know they are not.


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

*well its seems the wrong terrors are breeding with my convicts*

well to be honest i dont have any friends that are into fish,
but hey i understand about dishonesty as much as anyone else

anyways back to the point seems my green terror/female convict have paird
and now have a nest and babys oh my,wrong terror,i will feed any succesfull babys to my other fish more then likely,maybe ill keep one if they hatch proper no deformitys who knows most diffentaly not selling giving or tradeing them away to lfs friends family just thought id pop in with this,still looking for more convicts pictures pls if u have some fore sale and intersted in selling a lot of them if nice colours and bars


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Congrats Show me some pics then I'll deffinatly beieive you.


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

well i dont see any colouring in the eggs.maybe unvertile?


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## darick_blackcon (Feb 15, 2006)

*about the camera*

i dont have one besides for my cell phone and it dont send pics and i havent bought the usb port cord yet.lazy i guess


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