# new to live plants, possibly dying plants?



## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

i bought a few plants from petsmart and have them in my tank. I know for a fact that I have Java Fern, Microsword, and 2 onion bulbs. It seems like the JF is dying. It has black spots on it and it looks like it took a buckshot shell to the leaves. As far as the Microsword and other plants go, they seem okay, but they aren't growing or anything. I'm thinking that I might need to get a Co2 injection set up. I've read the DIYs about it and it seems like the way to go as long as I can figure out a decent way to build a "reactor"...From what I've seen on videos and pictures, a lot of people don't run Co2, though(that I can see). I dunno...Well, here's my setup. Tell me what you guys think can/will help

- tank : 36 gallon bow-front
- Lighting : a new dual T5HO fixture, so I know that I'm pumping plenty of light for my tank. one bulb is a "floramax HO" and the other is a 10k HO that came with it. I don't think the lighting is the problem because it seems like I'm getting algae pretty fast compared to when I had the stock lighting.
- Substrate : plain jane aquarium gravel. I know that it would be better to have flourite or the like, but when i first set the tank up, i didn't think i'd be into the live plant thing...i was wrong.
- Fert : API plant fertilizer from a bottle(liquid)

Co2 : none (i did buy some of that Co2 booster that API sells, but I haven't used it as of yet). I read a bunch about injection over the past few days and I started to get an itch to buy one or do a DIY to save some cash.

Here's a few pics of my plants in question. I honestly don't remember what the hell I bought except for the two mentioned above(JF and MS)

-one hole(bottom left) and the leaves look kind of wrinkly compared to when i first got it 
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/tallkid12285/IMAG0435.jpg
-probably the worst looking plant 
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/tallkid12285/IMAG0434.jpg
-looks okay, but hasn't grown/expanded 
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/tallkid12285/IMAG0433.jpg
-same as the other MS 
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/tallkid12285/IMAG0432.jpg
-the messed up looking JF 
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/tallkid12285/IMAG0431.jpg
-anyone know what the hell that corn on the cob looking thing is on the top? 
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/tallkid12285/IMAG0429.jpg


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Dzikibyk (Jan 9, 2012)

Hey Fuzz,

I'm relatively new to the planted aquarium and aquariums in general, but I've done a fair bit of reading about plants. The plants you described actually do not require CO2 injection, but from I've heard that CO2 does help your plants grow as it helps supply them with precious carbon. Personally, I've thought about CO2 injection myself but haven't bought anything yet. I've been using Flourish Excel as a carbon supplement for my tank and so far so good. It's only been running since Christmas '11 but my amazon sword has sprouted 6-7 new leaves and 2 new plantlings that I've clipped and replanted from the original plant.

Your plants from what I can tell look fairly healthy. The 1st plant you have looks like an amazon or melon sword. Swords are heavy root feeders and will benefit from root tabs. I'm using the Flourish brand tabs for mine.

The java ferns look okay too, but black spots on java ferns generally indicated nitrogen deficiency (ammonia / nitrate), those plants could have been in the store and just starved for a long time. Java fern leaves will also turn transparent if your light intensity is too strong.

I found www.liveaquaria.com a good site to give you some basic info on plant care requirments. ie lighting, pH, additional supplements.

And read the sticky posted about Petco/Petsmart plants.....yours actually look like aquatic plants so your good D, more to come later, I'm running late ..... going to see Woman in Black in a few.

Dz AKA Tom


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

thanks dude. i've read up on it a lot and i did look up the scientific names of the plants when i first picked them up and they are all good to go(low-light hardy plants). I started using the Co2 booster that I mentioned above over the past few days following the directions on the bottle. I looked into a DIY Co2 system with a tank instead of a yeast reactor so I don't have the inconsistency(and a co2 tank looks nicer than a juice/pop bottle. 

I read up a lot on the stuff lately and it seems as though I'm in need of some more food for the plants. the lighting is in the high range according to a chart that I ran across(WPG rule is useless unless you're still using T12 Daylight tubes). I'll see if I can stumble upon the chart and post it in these forums for everyone to see. 

After reading more about the Co2 Booster, it's pretty much the same thing as Flourish Exel. So aside from light and Carbon, plants need other minerals and nutrients. A lot of those under layer substrates (flourite and the like) contain those minerals and nutrients, but I don't want to tear my tank down just to add an underlayer. I might get some of those root tabs and place them under or even tie them to each plant and see what kind of results I get. 

I'm in the process of starting a "dirt tank", but it takes 1-2 months for the dirt to biologically change from terrestrial to aquatic. It's been sitting in the tank for roughly 2 weeks now and I can't wait till I can flood the tank. I guess I could do a "Dry-Start" and split my plants up from my main tank so they get all the carbon dioxide they could possibly want. There's so many things you can do with fish tanks that it is overwhelming!


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

OHHH NOOOOO! That last pic is anubias barteri and you are not supposed to plant the ryzome. With that planted this plant will die! Just plant the roots Refer:









Oh and that corn looking thing is the stamen. Your anubias is trying to reproduce.

Also the second plant is dragons tongue. Its a very hard plant to grow...and is actually a terrarium plant.


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

thanks man. i pulled it up a bit to expose the rhyzome.


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## aquariest2k12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Fuzz said:


> i bought a few plants from petsmart and have them in my tank. I know for a fact that I have Java Fern, Microsword, and 2 onion bulbs. It seems like the JF is dying. It has black spots on it and it looks like it took a buckshot shell to the leaves. As far as the Microsword and other plants go, they seem okay, but they aren't growing or anything. I'm thinking that I might need to get a Co2 injection set up. I've read the DIYs about it and it seems like the way to go as long as I can figure out a decent way to build a "reactor"...From what I've seen on videos and pictures, a lot of people don't run Co2, though(that I can see). I dunno...Well, here's my setup. Tell me what you guys think can/will help
> 
> - tank : 36 gallon bow-front
> - Lighting : a new dual T5HO fixture, so I know that I'm pumping plenty of light for my tank. one bulb is a "floramax HO" and the other is a 10k HO that came with it. I don't think the lighting is the problem because it seems like I'm getting algae pretty fast compared to when I had the stock lighting.
> ...


Well u know I'm having the same problem with my aquatic plants and I bought some florapride yesterday just to test it out, I didn't use much but I just wanna see if it has any affect I read some good things and some bad so I may just go with some eco complete to have this remedied. Sometimes its hard to find out what's wrong with em because it could be several things but i did hear about the C02. It looks like u have a pretty good set up I would hate for you to lose those plants and have several potted plants but few of them look OK good luck on saving them.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Java Fern also has a rhizome and should not be buried. Ideally it should be grown on wood or a large rock.

how many watts of light do you have on the tank and for what lenght?


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

i broke down and replaced my aquarium gravel for flourite. about 2.5 bags later and a cloudy tank(i did pre-rinse the stuff a little), it completely changed the look of my tank. I also started to paint the back of my tank. 

The lights : 30" dual T5HO fixture. One 10,000k HO(came with the thing, gonna change it eventually) and one Colormax HO. According to a PAR chart I found, I should be in the 100 PAR range at the bottom of my tank(high light). 

I've also started using the Co2 booster by API until I get my tax return and buy all the necessary parts(don't feel like fussing with yeast). 

The plants look about the same today as the original post. No better, no worse. When I pulled the plants up to change the substrate, I noticed that the roots have grown a lot since I first put them in my tank...so we're making progress and they aren't rotting under the substrate. I'll fix my java ferns right now.

So I've got the lighting, I've got the fertilizer(good substrate), and I'm putting liquid carbon into the tank...Its running on a 9 hour timer as of now. Should I increase the time to 11 or 12? Will the Co2 booster really help me out, or was it a waste of money?

Thanks again for helping me out. Like I said, I'm new to this and trying to learn as I go.


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## grogan (Jan 23, 2011)

With only co2 booster you should be running only one bulb. A high light tank without adequate co2 usually ends in disaster. Leave your lights at the time they are. 8-10 hrs is what I recommend.


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

grogan said:


> With only co2 booster you should be running only one bulb. A high light tank without adequate co2 usually ends in disaster. Leave your lights at the time they are. 8-10 hrs is what I recommend.


+1 to this. 

Also once you go high tech you will likely need daily fertilizers added to the water, your gravel will not be enough nor does it provide everything the plants need. I personally would suggest dry fertilizers to save costs.


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

Okay, cool. Thanks for the input...What kind of fertilizers should I get? Where should I look to buy them? I saw liquid fert at the local fish stores, but I don't recall seeing something dry. Does it come like flakes or something?

I'll try to pull the 10k light out and see if the fixture still works with just one bulb. If not, I'll hopefully be okay until I can buy the co2 parts....or I could put the original fixture back on temporarily until I get the Co2 injection going


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## aquariest2k12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Just for my info. 
What type of fertilizer can I invest in for my plants instead of using some cheap stuff like florapride?


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## Mikaila31 (Nov 29, 2009)

Well I use super cheap dry fertilizers as with liquid ones you are paying for a lot of water and I high tech tank will eat up liquids really fast. For me I spend about $35 on about 4 pounds of dry fertilizers and these last me about 2 years or so dosing 75 gallons total. In total there are 5 fertilizers that I use potassium nitrate, mono potassium phosphate, potassium sulfate, trace CSM+B, and magnesium sulfate. You need to do research though. I use the EI or Estimative Index method of dosing fertilizers. Thing with dry fertilizers is there are no set values on what you need. There are good starting doses on the web. However with all tanks things are always a bit unique. You will likely have to fine tune the dosages to your tank. The only way to really go off this is to watch how the plants grow. Thus it can take a good month or two to get a proper fertilizer regime going. Also take a look at tap water parameters to see your starting points then build off that. Make sure to note if you have nitrate present, it you have hard water the magnesium sulfate is likely to be unnecessary. 

With the plants I grow my tanks they would easily consume $40 of liquid fertilizers every two months is I didn't use dry fertilizers. You can mix the dry fertilizer into water to make liquid solutions then dose the tank with those. Or you can get really small measuring thing and dose it as just the dry stuff. 

For buying dry fertilizers the major site is aquariumfertilizer.com.

Typically no matter where you get them from they come something like this.


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## Fuzz (Jan 27, 2012)

Sweet. I found "Chuck's Planted Aquarium Calculator" and I think I'll use this to start with. Now I need a scale, the dry ferts, and Co2. I have hard water at home so I think I should skip out on the magnesium sulfate. I'm glad I asked about the fertilizer!

I pulled out half of my JF last night and tied the rhizome to a rock. I'll have to find a small, flat piece of driftwood or something to get it all into one area without this crappy looking rock. While digging in my substrate, I tugged on my other plants to make sure I didn't bury them too deep.

By the way, is there an easy way to plant microsword? When I bought mine, the roots are either really hard to see or non-existent. I pretty much split it up into bunches, pushed it up against the front wall of my tank, and slid some substrate behind it. The microsword is gently pinned/wedged in place as of now. 

Thanks again. Awesome information. I'm really learning a lot here and getting excited for my tax return to kick my tank into high gear!


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