# Please help!



## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

I had 2 goldfish, a Pleco, and a betta in my 12g tank. I didn't know that betas and plecos like warm water. They seemed happy enough for almost two years but I felt bad so when I found out I moved the two goldfish to their own 10g tank and got a heater for the other tank. I took out 75% of the water and gave it to the goldfish (so 25% water change for them) and I kept the other 25% in the old tank and kept the old filter media so the water would be clean but still have some good bacteria. I added a few neon tetras in the warm tank. 
I added conditioner and cycle. 

The water levels are all 0 or close to (ammonia MIGHT have been up a bit but not to the next colour on the testing kit. Sort of between 0 and the next one). Nitrates and nitrites both at 0. I test every day, sometimes twice. They aren't changing. 

First, most of the tetras died. They separated from the others, usually in a corner. Stayed in one spot and then started to sort of float mid water getting pushed around by the filter current. Then the betta got a white fuzz on his head and started swimming sideways and upside down and died. All this in about 2 days. The pet store I got them at have me Pimafix and replaced the fish that had died. (One tetra and the pleco survived). I put the new fish and medicine in the tank. Two separated and had open mouths. One of the two had bulging gills an gasped at the top of the tank. I went to get a different medication but both died before I got back. I put in the new meds (ick guard and fungus guard). Another tetra has lost his tail fin completely. Looks like white stuff on his tail. But not a lot. 

Am I getting bad advice from the pet store? What should I do?

EDIT: I checked my test kit card. The ammonia went up to somewhere between 0 and 0.25


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

Update - the tail-less fish is currently upside down and attached to the filter intake. I'm not sure if it is better to let him free or just take him out as it appears that he isn't going to make it. Any opinions?


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

When I unplugged my filter to let the fish off, the filter wouldn't start again. It was all gummed up with a thick jelly-like mess. I've never seen it before.


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

Hi, Nancy, sorry to hear about you fish problems. Sounds like several things happened that added up fast. When you changed the tanks and fish up, it was too stressful for your fish, then the tetras may have brought in a sickness that the stressed fish were quickly overcome by. When starting a new tank, adding water from the old one is not an effective way to establish needed bacteria, because most of that is in the sand, filter floss, rocks, etc. And even then, the cycle takes a few weeks to be ready for fish. I'm guessing you disturbed the first tank balance by taking out too much water all at once (I never take out more than 1/3) Because the new fish reacted so quickly, I suspect your water disagreed with them. For now, I would not add any more fish until you get the water cycled, and all signs of disease under control. And I would probably free the one from the filter-he won't recover at this point, but I would free him anyway. What kind of water do you use in your tanks, and how do you prepare it?


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## C. King (Dec 14, 2012)

That thick, jelly like mess was most likely the remains of a fish carcass,and bacteria. Clean filter out thoroughly. If it is an outside filter, hanging off the tank, be sure not to start it dry--add water to it until it is full, before plugging it in.


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Do you use nitrifying bacteria for your tank?


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

C king - thanks for the water info. I didn't realize the bacteria wasn't in the old water. But the tank where my fish are dying kept the old rocks, plants, and filter plus I added conditioner and cycle so I guess that's why all the numbers stayed low. The tank with the old water is the goldfish and they have seemed ok but I will keep a close eye on the levels now that I know. 

I use a combo of tap water (well - so no chemicals but a bit on the hard side) and RO water. I add conditioner all the time when I add tap water but not with RO. I don't use cycle for a 25% water change but for any major changes I add it just to be sure. Also when I noticed the ammonia was up around 0.1 or so I added it.


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

So the thick jelly stuff would be a good sign that the bacteria are dying?

There is no way it is a fish carcass because I count them all and have removed them immediately. My plants aren't looking so hot, though. Could omit be decaying plant bits? There was nothing solid or recognizable there. 

Graceful - I don't know what nitrifying bacteria is. Would it be like cycle?


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## graceful.04 (Oct 30, 2012)

Yep, nitrifying bacteria helps with the whole cycling process. Plants do produce ammonia as they die so that could be one issue. Maybe the jelly stuff is algae?


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

Not sure, I thought algae was green but this was clear/whitish. But it's dark in the filter so maybe no photosynthesis = no green?

My tetras seem to be doing better but the betta not so hot. Lying on the bottom or a plant at the top. The tank is on day 4 of treatment for ich and fungus. He looks really ill but nothing visible. Just lethargic. Water all still at 0. 

I don't know what I should do. 

The fungus treatment says to leave for 4 days then you can add more. I don't know if I should or not. I don't see anything so I dot know if I should assume there is some or what. 

I am so frustrated!


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

well ; first bad advice was letting you put goldfish , a pleco and a betta together...betta and pleco ok..they are warmer water fish...but the goldfish prefer cold water..
to be honest ; i have no idea what the jelly like substance is..i don't think i have ever encountered it before..heck ; i am still learning about this fishkeeping stuff..
try to keep your tropicals a bit warmer(78-80) ; and non tropicals colder...below 74...


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

As I said I have already separated the fish and heated one tank, but thanks for the reply. 

The betta now has white on his mouth so I clearly need to keep treating for fungus. Maybe ich too just in case? I am not sure if I should remove him or just treat in the tank the whole tank may still be infected.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

You did too much stuff at one time. Try not to do that in the future. Pimafix is more a preventative tonic than a real cure.


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks. I did get fungus guard and ick guard last Thursday, too. The neons seem better but the beta just got white on it today. Would I need to continue to treat the whole tank or should I take the beta out and treat separately?

Or both?


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

You mentioned you added meds to the tank. I suspect this probably made things worse. It's always better to treat sick fish in separate quarantine/hospital tank.


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

Good to know. I will take the beta out to give him meds. The other fish seem ok now so I don't want to mes with that. I am thinking that I should take some rocks and plants out of his current tank since I don't have a cycled tank?


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't have a second heater... Really warm room ok?


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

I have been watching my goldfish in case something happens to them. Both have their top fin down so I am wondering if I stressed them, too. I put Pimafix in their tank. If it gets worse and they both get such should I still take them out of their tank or would I just treat their normal tank as they are the only two there?


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## Ice (Sep 25, 2006)

What kind of test kit are you using? Strips are garbage. Get API Freshwater Kit. It contains tests for PH, High PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. Dr. Foster & Smith has them for $20.


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

That's what I have 

Finally, one thing I did right!


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

If it is ich you DO want to treat the entire tank. If it is something like columnaris (might be the white on the fish's mouth) you can treat just the fish, but it's best to treat the tank as well so it doesn't spread, as it is contageous so it's possible the other fish have it as well, and are just currently asymptomatic. Were it me I would treat the tank and give the affected fish additional "dip" treatments. 

With the Betta- be very careful of the "fix" meds as they have oil and oil can bug their labyrinth organ. Never overdose with them. They are safe as long as you don't add more than you should, and best if you use at less than full strength. 

Here is a link to a site that can help you gain some information about the medications that are out there. Aside from possibly helping you make decisions now, it is great to learn about what to do for if things like this happen again  I think it also tells you how to do a dip. 

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html

And this gives you some good information about columnaris:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/columnaris.html

Also if the betta is sitting in a leaf and getting white- you might want to verify it's breathing, it's possible it died. I am pretty sure you would know if that had happened, but I mention it just in case.


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks, I will read those right away. 

Last time I used a 10 gallon tablet in my 12 gallon tank so maybe that's why it spread. Ill lower the water to 10g then treat again. I have one tetra that just separated and acting odd so it may be best to treat them all. 

The betta is not dead. Looks like it sometimes but then gets a burst of energy and swims around the tank. He has white on his mouth so I think it's columnaris.


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## Nancyl (Jan 17, 2013)

Still reading but it seems that if its columnar is, that is why it doesn't seem to be responding to any of the meds I have used?


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Probably, it can be hard to treat. It likes to hold on!


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