# need some QUICK advice: Angelfish



## PuterChickFL

two of my angelfish got jiggy with it and laid eggs sometime yesterday. These two had been acting real odd lately and had been favoring the filter intake tube.

First things first, what do I need to do? Should I get a tank setup for them since there are other angels in the tank? Bubba is chasing them off and Stumpy is tending the eggs. I'm afraid to turn off the lights tonite on them. I got a tank full of guppies, but MAN I will have way more angelfish fry if this is successful!!


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## emc7

I would leave the light on tonight, but do nothing else right away. Order a sponge for the filter intake, and some small food. Its very rare to get any live fry on the first attempt. I once had a pair of angels that raised a couple dozen fry to adulthood in a 55 and it was great to see. Find that bowfront spot and move the other angels over, not right away, but in a few weeks. If you want the parents to raise fry, they will need the whole tank. If you want to artificial raise fry in small tanks, order a replacement filter intake tube and leave the rest of the angels in.


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## lohachata

folks always talk about how prolific guppies are.......they got nothin on angels...
if you artificially hatch the eggs , a good healthy pair of angels will lay 300-500 eggs every 7 days...the biggest spawn i ever had was about 800 fry from a huge pair of marble veils....normal spawns were around 500..but that spawn was right after i shut them down for a month....


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## PuterChickFL

OMG that's alot. I might have 100 or so. Bubba is still guarding, tho not as aggressively, Stumpy is still skating up the pipe. Im aware that the first time I may lost most if not all, but I am just too excited to see eggs!!! I left the light on lastnite because I was afraid the others would sneak in and have a snack.

Yea, I was thinking I might have to wait on doing the Discus tank now that I may have a few hundred angels in the future lol should I put the pair in the 46 or move all the others in the 46? can the angels be in the tank with the discus?


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## emc7

discus geeks will say no. That angels can be bullies and also carry disease that discus can catch. . IMO it could work in a large enough tank, but I don't think yours are.

If you want to take eggs, you can put the pair in 20H.


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## PuterChickFL

well, space is at a premium around here, i had to make room for the 46 lol my only option is keep them in what they are in or move someone into the 46. the only bully is Bubba but he wouldnt be with the discus. the remaining angels are pretty quiet


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## Kimberly

PuterChickFL said:


> should I put the pair in the 46 or move all the others in the 46?


First off: I have no experience breeding angels, but I have been doing a lot of research on the topic.

If i were you, I would leave the parents and the eggs in the current take and take all the other fish out. This way the parents won't have to go through the stress of their eggs being moved, as well as themselves.

After that I would order a sponge filter ASAP. Or find one in a local store. Before the eggs hatch you are going to need to turn your normal filter off so they don't get sucked in. BUT be very careful about doing this process. Remember that by turning off your current filter you are going to cause the tank to cycle again. So water changes are going to be vital!


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## emc7

If you are going to try to let the parents raise them, take the other fish out and cover the filter intake. Soon you should know if all the eggs are bad (opaque and fungusing).


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## arch aquatics

i raised tens of thousands of angels over the years and the best thing that i have found is to move the pair into a 10 or 15 gallon tank

They will eat the first few batches of eggs/free swimmers but soon you will be able to move them from tank to tank and let them fill dozens of tanks with fry.

Let them in with the fry until the night before the fry go free swimming.(7 days post spawn) Then move the parents to the next tank to spawn again

The trick to training fish to parent raise is to have patience with them and let them learn on their own and get it right. It may take them 3-6 months to get it right.

Be patient, only bad things happen quickly in this hobby!

The tiring part is the feeding the fry every 6 hours LOL

Back in my hay day of angel breeding i was hatching brine shrimp 1 ounce of eggs a day in 2 5 gallon water bottles


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## PuterChickFL

I've decided to move the fry to their own tank. For what I have going on that will be easier. I just picked up a 10 gallon kit. What do I need , the air stone and heater?

I was told the parents aren't needed.....but that don't sound right.
I'm also researching baby brine shrimp. That should be fun, hopefully I get some hatchlings out of this


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## arch aquatics

sponge filter and a heater will surfice


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## PuterChickFL

well i just got home and the eggs are still there. I see some of them have turned white, which I understand are duds. how do i tell if they are fertilized? I will be setting up the 10 gallon tomorrow and moving them over


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## arch aquatics

if they dont turn white they are fertilized


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## PuterChickFL

alot of them are turning white at this point. i'm not bummed as this is the first time, but any of them surviving will be great. mommy is doing a fine job tending to the brood, daddy is being his bully self and chasing everyone away lol


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## arch aquatics

if this batch goes south i would move the pair into your new 10 to give them privacy


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## PuterChickFL

arch aquatics said:


> if this batch goes south i would move the pair into your new 10 to give them privacy


that's exactly what I'm doing. alot of them are turning white and are getting fuzzy, and some of the good ones are disappearing. alot of the other angels are sort of "hanging around" and Bubba isnt fighting them off that much right at the moment. I filled the 10 gallon with mostly established water and I have the heater getting the temp right. I know this wasnt gonna be 100% success, but I'm ready for next time.


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## lohachata

feed them good for a week...place a piece of slate in with them.....do a 30% water change and watch for when they drop their tubes..pointed tube is the male...blunt tube is the female.


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## PuterChickFL

yea i've been trying to get a good glance at their tubes but couldnt really tell. I'm about to move the tube over shortly, just waiting for the water to get warmed up. I filled the tank up 80/20 with established/new water, while i'm waiting I have the sponge filter in the established tank under the filter return to get some more of the bio.

i used a turkey baster to get rid of the fuzzy white ones, i swear some of the good ones are moving a little bit....


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## arch aquatics

you are doing all the right steps to get this pair to become great parents

stuff them with frozen blood worms or better yet live black worms and watch the eggs fly!


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## PuterChickFL

i've been feeding them frozen brine shrimp for the last week. next thing I know I got eggs lol


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## PuterChickFL

i got the eggs moved over. I thought catching the parents would be a huge hassle, but it was way too easy. when i took the tube out first, mommy was a little upset because she couldnt find her kids! I have a piece of flat rock that I put in there as well so maybe they will try that next time. I also have a sponge filter in there as well.

I like that this tank has an LED light with the blue lights so they wont be in total darkness.


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## lohachata

nice looking pair PC...


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## arch aquatics

once they lay leave the light burn 24/7 until you move them out from the fry


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## PuterChickFL

lohachata said:


> nice looking pair PC...


thank you. the stripes (Stumpy) I got as a tiny. I'm interested to see if any of the fry will carry her stumps. I dont know if that was genetics or happened as she grew up before I got her


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## PuterChickFL

well it looks like this batch was a fail. I'm not discouraged at all. I'm keeping them fed with some frozen brine shrimp and waiting for them to do it again


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## lohachata

short ventral fins is often a result of inbreeding......you are crossing her out to an unrelated fish....you may get a few stumps , but very few..
don't just feed them frozen brine...they still need a good varied diet...veggie flake and other stuff..
best of luck kid..


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## PuterChickFL

What i've been doing to vary the diet is feed them flakes in the day before work, then brine when I get home. I have my mom feeding her greedy fish some frozen krill, I may try that and see if my fishies like it

as far as her ventral fins, they arent just short, they are just stumps, and her side fins are too. been like that since I got her as a teeny weeny. Naming her Stumpy was the only right thing to do lol


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## arch aquatics

more then likely ammonia burn from when it was very young

i had a female once upon a time that was like that but had the best question mark on her side in jet black against a g/g body

all her babies were just fine but she never recovered or grew fins back

that is nurture over nature

her life as a fry was not so good and got her fins burnt off but her life as an adult was a fat and happy one!

And i never did get a baby with that question mark on its side like momma!


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## PuterChickFL

i cant wait for them to spawn again. I'm also thinking about getting a pair of convicts and breeding them. I might know someone who will take my guppies so I'll have somewhere for them. found a new LFS that I like and they have a pair with a brood and now I want them!


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## PuterChickFL

i just got home from work and I'm giddy with excitement. Stumpy is laying eggs!


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## emc7

That bent dorsal on the male isn't genetic either. They get like that when fry are raised in a short tank. Really, If you raise the fry in a 55 when they get big enough, they will have straight dorsals.


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## PuterChickFL

looks like they laid more this time


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## emc7

Nice pic. They look good clear like that. Bad ones will go opaque


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## PuterChickFL

yea, I see like a couple of white ones already


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## arch aquatics

soon the trick will be getting them to stop!

Congrats on the spawn not the work begins


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## PuterChickFL

holy sh*t i think some are wiggling!!


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## PuterChickFL

yay! I can confirm I have wigglers!! but Stumpy just gave me a heart attack. I'm watching a clump of them, and I can clearly see the movement, she came by and ate them!! but then I watched her spit them out on the rock, there's like a small ledge that has a bunch of them there, and some are still stuck to the rock wiggling. i guess the ones that are falling off the rock are being "put back"

this is very exciting!!


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## emc7

Totally normal.


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## PuterChickFL

i'm having the time of my life right now, and they are being really good parents


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## arch aquatics

yay you got a smart pair that didnt have to be trained to raise babies

let that light burn 24/7 from my past exp is the best way to get them to free swimming


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## PuterChickFL

yes, I havent messed with lighting, it has the moonlighting but I have just kept on the regular light. they are definitely moving, parents are working on keeping them in the same area, a pretty good number of them are still surviving! I managed to get a few video clips lastnite, will get some more tonite


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## PuterChickFL

now i'm starting to get a little nervous. I still have plenty of them left, they will be free swimming soon, I need a crash course in baby brine shrimp, hatching or whatever, they are so cute!

here's a clump of them I can easily see, dont know if this is all of them or not, but this is enough to start with










http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjLK8DEnYbE


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## lohachata

get a few 2 liter soda bottles......a 5 gallon bag of marine salt mix...an air pump , airline , a gang valve and some airstones... and brine shrimp eggs of course....
the bottles need to be warm...78-82.....mix enough salt to make 1 gal. fill the bottles about 3/4 full... drill a hole in the caps big enough to put the airline through..
with a small funnel put about 1 teaspoon of eggs in 1 bottle.....leave the other bottle for the next batch...put the cap on and push the airstone all the way to the bottom and run it almost full blast...at 80 degrees they should hatch in about 24 hours...after 1 day of feeding put eggs in the other bottle to hatch out so they are ready when you are done with bottle 1...

or.....................................you could just buy nonhatching decapped brine eggs and feed them to the fry...


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## PuterChickFL

lohachata said:


> or.....................................you could just buy nonhatching decapped brine eggs and feed them to the fry...


that sounds so much easier lol
I need to find one of my stores here to see who sells it


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## PuterChickFL

well poo. a couple of them looked like they were ready to free swim tonite, so I was busy with other things around the house, sat down with the camera to get some video, and they are gone. I guess the parents thought they were food?

guess I'll do a water change, get things cleaned up and wait for next time. Man i'm devastated


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## lohachata

in the meantime try this guy for the decapped brine...best price around as well...

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?foodbs&1353639611


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## PuterChickFL

lohachata said:


> in the meantime try this guy for the decapped brine...best price around as well...
> 
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?foodbs&1353639611


thanks, i'll bookmark that. 

I cant help but think they probably thought I was feeding them, thinking of what that frozen brine shrimp looks like when I drop it in there, those babies had to look just like that. Oh well, lesson learned.


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## lohachata

nope ; not true ; they didn't mistake the fry for the brine shrimp...it is quite common for the adults to eat the fry. sometimes they never learn to keep them..sometimes they do it right away..i never did much with letting the parents raise the fry..i usually hatched the eggs in a separate tank....
i always make sure that i have a good supply of fry food "BEFORE" the fish spawn....and fry need special foods....needs are not much different than most all other creatures....high protein and high fat...just like mother's milk...


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## emc7

I have a pair of rams that are teasing me with eggs every few weeks, but no fry yet. Next time I am going to try taking them. But if you can get the parents to raise them, it is so much less work and very cool to watch.


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## PuterChickFL

yea, i think I will take over next time. they did so well up until now. one or two of them were getting ready to take the leap of faith, so I guess they all did and went right into the parents' mouths


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## PuterChickFL

ok so lets try this again. After the last spawn, they didnt do anything else for a couple of months. I moved them back in the main tank and BOOM, eggs. They only lasted two days and every single one was eaten.

time to get another 10 gallon. this time I think i will try to raise them. I dont know why they stopped spawning in the 10 gallon i had. I have a discus in it right now.


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