# Please Help Me!



## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here.

I currently have a coldwater fish tank containing 1 fish. The fish is a goldfish and is about 4years old. I used to feed the fish several times a day and the water conditions were not that good. I have now come to realise that I was doing a lot of things wrong. About 4months ago my fish developed "popeye". I went to my local fish store (Maidenhead Aquatics UK) and they did a water test. This was really bad and 'deadly'. After a few weeks of water changes once every 3 days and feeding every other my water is now fine. I have now been using for about 3 weeks "Interpet Internal Bacteria No.9". I have been adding this every 4 days to the water and have been doing 20% water changes in-between adding new dosages.
My fish just doesn't seem to be getting any better. I have tried adding a (real) plant about a week ago and have got an air pump and filter going 24/7. (My filter currently has the carbon part out due to the medication in the tank).

My question is, I really don't know what to do any more. His eyes are really swelling and his back fin looks blood-streaked. Should I continue adding this medication? Is there anything better? My tank is only 20L and there is only 1 fish in it, so I have been treating it all.

Should I add any salt to the water? I have heard that this can help, but I have also heard that this can kill the plant. Should I do "Salt Dips". It even says that the medication works best with salt added.


One last question I have is that my tank is in a bad place. It is on a window-sill and under a radiator. I really want to move my tank to a better place but I think this might cause the fish more harm.

Please can someone help me? This is driving me mad.

Thank you very very much. :fish:


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## PSmithAZ (Aug 12, 2007)

I don't know much about popeye but here is a link I just found. It does say that some causes are not treatable but some are. There is mention of some medicine in this clip which I also have no experiance with.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article26.html

Best of luck to you. Let us know what happens.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thank you. I have just tried moving my tank to another room and now there is dead pieces of plant flying around everywhere. My fish is going mad.

I moved nearly all the water into a bucket, as well as the fish. I then moved the tank to another room and then put the fish and the water back in and now all parts of my plant are flying about.

Please can you help????


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## BV77 (Jan 22, 2005)

Popeye is a symptom and not in itself a disease.....it is a result of another bacterial infection....I've cured it before with " tri-sulfa" drugs....but Maracyde I and Maracyde II used at the same time, might help....they fight both gram pos and gram neg bacteria.....don't forget to remove the carbon first, and keep up water changes


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Update: The dead pieces of plant have now gone into the filter as I just cleaned it. This improved the filter flow quite a bit.

Thanks for the information on popeye. Shall I do a water change on Monday? As I've partly done a water change today when I moved the tank.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Popeye is nasty stuff. It is a symptom of a number of illnesses, so it cannot be said for certain just which cure will work, or if any cure will work.
Augmentin is a drug of choice for many cases of exopthalmia ( popeye ). The reason for this is that Augmentin is one of a very few medicines which can cross the blood/brain barrier. Popeye, you see, is often caused by a brain infection, or at least causes brain infection itself via the optic nerve canal. Most medicines cannot treat the brain, but Augmentin can.
Your fish may well also have a mycobacterial infection, or more simply, tuberculosis. Yes, tuberculosis. It is all too common in fish which have been kept under filthy conditions, and it is a common cause of popeye. It can be cured, but the treatment rarely works and it is ridiculously expensive.

In short, the prognosis for your goldfish's recovery is not good.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Should I also put the plant back in the tank? At the moment it is in a bucket of fish water. I'm just wondering if the plant is atualy helping the situation or just making it worse as I do not currently have a fish tank light and there are still a lot of plant leaves floting around.

Another quick question is should I add any more anti-biotic or should I leave it a few days (as it is due for another dose).

Thanks.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for your reply, TheOldSalt.

I posted my previous reply before I saw yours. Do you know where I can get this Augmentin from? And how much do you call expensive?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

if the plant is dying (dropping leaves and losing color), putting it back will just cause it to rot and make the water quality worse. If the plant is recovering and growing pull off any loose leaves and put it back. Don't leave random plant pieces in your tank it will hurt water quality like uneaten food and fish poop do.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks emc7.

At the moment the pieces of plant are just on the outside of the filter trying to be sucked in. The problem I have is that if I turn the filter off and take it out, the leaves drop off back into the water.

I have still left the plant out of the tank for now. Should I really have a special tank light? Would it grow better then?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Try to identify the plant and ask about its light needs. Some plants (like java moss) will grow in ambient light. Some need moderate tank light, some need strong lighting (multiple fluorescent bulbs). Its hard to keep a small tank cool with really high lighting. If the plant can't survive in your tank, put it in jar on the windowsill and give it tank water. A live, growing plant will help take nitrate from your water, but a dying plant is just more waste.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

If your fish had has popeye for four months, I'd say two things:
1- that's a long time for a fish to survive with it
2- it's probably not curable

Clean water, continue the medicine. It's worth a try, I guess, but don't expect much by this time. Why did you wait so long? Ah, it doesn't matter, really, just don't make that mistake in the future.

By the way, many strains of goldfish have bulging eyes anyway. Are you sure that this is even a case of popeye? Are there other signs of trouble to go with it?


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

I have been trying to treat it for a long time with a different medacine, however when the shop advised me to take a water test, thats when I found out the water was really bad and rendering the medacine usless.

I think I will go and buy a light for my tank. Any ideas on removing the dead pieces of plant?

The fish has always has his eyes bulging slightly, but never this much. He also has very shiny scales (some missing from when my cat got him about 2years ago), and has his back tail blood streaked. I will try and post a picture soon.

So I will contiune with the anti biotics? I will maybe try some others that people have mensioned in this thread. Am I right in saying that "Maracyde I and Maracyde II" is Maracyn? I have found these two products, which ones should I use?

Maracyn-Two® Freshwater

Maracyn Plus®

Are these better than my current "Interpet Internal Bacteria No.9"?

Thanks.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Maracide is useless in this application, being made for other things.

Blood streaks in the tail usually indicate septicemia, a systemwide blood infection. That would also explain the popeye.

Interpet 99 isn't going to be much help, I think. Switch to Maracyn and Maracyn 2. They're some of the stronger antibiotics you can buy for fish, and these two in combination should treat most anything. 
Again, I think it's probably already too late, but it's worth a try.

By the way, don't pour your aquarium water down the drain if it's been treated with antibiotics. You don't want the medicines to get diluted in your water supply, giving rise to new strains of nasty bacteria which are immune to those meds. Bottle your water up instead and toss it in the garbage, or mix it into some kitty litter and bag it.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

ok;i am probably going to catch a bunch of flack for this but.......
i have had popeye come up a couple of times in the past few years.the only treatment i have used was "Mela-Fix".and it worked perfectly.it is reasonably priced and since it is all natural it should be readily available in the UK.it should also be good for the bloodstreaked fins problem.check you localstores for it danno..i buy it in the 1/2 gallon concentrate because i use it for other things..


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for your replies everyone.

I have just added some more Interpet Internal Bacteria No.9. I'm quite confused now as to what medacine to buy. Would Maracyn be available in the UK? So am I right in saying that I use safely use "Maracyn Plus" and "Maracyn Two" dosages at the same time?

I have added some pictures of my fish and the tank. The links to the pictures are listed below;
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007024.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007023.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007022.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007021.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007020.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007017.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/30092007014.jpg

Sorry for adding so many, I got a bit carried away!


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

You know I am looking at that fishes eyes and I cannot see any problem with them!Perhaps Old Salt can see the problem!
Are you sure the red streaks in the tail are not blood vessels. I have a 10 year old goldfish that is that pale pink and I can see his blood vessels in his fins and tail.
I am wondering if the fish has red around his front fins or is that a reflection of the lighting?
Too bad about the missing scales!
What kind of plant do you have? Goldies like to eat plants anyway and you need something tough.
I wonder what your ammonia, nitrite levels are at with all the meds you have added to the water.
Does the fish always lay so still on the bottom of the tank?
I hope TOS sees the pics and can help out with his opinion.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Melafix is fine when the cause of the problem is mild.

Mousey, I can barely see the trouble either, but I can see it. This fish does have a bit of popeye, but it's not as bad as I thought it was. 

Clean the water and keep it clean, and try the Melafix, a couple teaspoons of salt, and maybe some maracyn.

This tank is too small for a goldfish of this size, which is no doubt a big part of your problem. Keeping the water clean enough to avoid infections like this is going to be a constant headache.


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## Willow (Mar 20, 2005)

Yeah, I agree; the fish looks fine to me. Here's a pic I found of popeye: http://www.fishjunkies.com/Diseases/popeye.php and you can see that your fish doesn't look like that. The red in his tail is probably blood vessels. I have a Red-Cap Oranda that has those same red streaks, and he's perfectly healthy. He did get septicemia once, and I could really tell the difference from his normal red streaks. So, I think you could discontinue the meds at this point, and just keep up with the frequent water changes----which will always be necessary, unless you can get a much larger tank. A goldie that size should have a very large tank, at the very minimum 20 gallons (about 80 liters) to himself, ideally a 50 gallon (about 200 liters). Comet goldfish can get to be well over a foot long.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Look again, Willow; the right eye is bulging out much more than the left one.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

Personally I would look for a bigger tank for this fish. He will be much happier if you do that, and likely the problems will clear up. The red through the tail is possibly due to high ammonia, so keeping up really good water quality should help that fairly quickly. What will help the most in the long run though, is a bigger home!

He is beautiful.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

I can't thank you all enough!
Thanks very much everyone for all your help and opinions.

He doesn't usually sit on the bottom of the tank, but I think that was due to the shock of moving the tank to another room (only guessing).

This morning he seems to have perked up a bit and is swimming around the tank. I will post a picture of my plant as soon as I can. I am currently doing water changes every 4 days along with adding medacine. So shall I stop adding the medacine and continue the water changes every 4 days?

Can I buy Melafix in the UK, or is there a good place I can buy it from on the internet?

One last thing, I have a 24" 18W fish tank florescent light on order from ebay. Will this help atall?

I will now go on the hunt for a new fish tank!

UPDATE:
Here is a picture of my plant, currently out of the tank but in tank water. I am going to add it again when my tank light arrives.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/01102007025.jpg


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

what we in canada call ELODEA.
perfect goldfish food!
Do a search for its requirements on the internet. There is a lot of info out there.
The goldfish I have do ok with java ferns or vals. They can't seem to eat those ones.
Have you checked your ammonia levels yet?
If you get a new tank you probably will have to cycle the new tank before you add your fish and then you should also transfer all the old filter media into the new filter or run both filters together in the new tank for a few weeks.
Keep checking the ammonia and nitrite levels.
let us know what they are.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for the info.

I will take a water sample to my local fish shop tomorrow or wednesday. I'll post the results here as soon as I get them.

Does anyone know a good place to get cheap fish tanks from (on the internet)? I am a bit limited for space, so I will have to choose an 80L one. Would an 80L tank be big enough to take some more fish (as well as my current one) in the future?

Thanks.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Not to be too mean, but he is going to die, popeye or not in that small of a tank. If thats a comet goldfish its a pond fish, but can be kept in a 75g tank. And no, an 80L would net even be big enough for the fish you have now. It would be fine for several other fish I can think of, but not a comet.


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## Kyoberr (Dec 6, 2006)

I don't think I could say anything else useful, so, Welcome to Fishforums!


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

I don't have much money to spend at the moment. I have been looking around and have found a second hand fish tank for sale in a local newspaper.

It's £100 for a "Tropiquarium 88 Fish Tank". The dimensions are 33 x 14 x 21.
It has a 130L capacity. It comes with condensation screen, double light, light timer, (heater) and original internal BioLife 55 filter.

Would this be ok for now? Until I can affor a bigger one?

Thanks.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, it's certainly a lot better than it's current tank, so it's a big improvement. Besides, you'll always have need of more tanks, so one day when you'll eventually need an even bigger tank, you can use that one for something new.
I guess what I'm saying is this: good bargains on aquariums pop up all the time, but usually not when you need them to. Therefore, it's a good idea to get what you can find when you can find it, as you'll always have need for more tanks as your hobby interest grows. Once you've accumulated several tanks, you can always sell a few to raise cash for needed equipment in emergencies.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks, TheOldSalt.

How exactly do I go about moving my fish to the new tank? I don't want to cause him any more stress. Should I move him as soon as I get the tank, or wait a while until this popeye hopefuly gets better?

I have got some spare gravel (which is the same as my gravel in my current tank). Should I just put new gravel in? Do I put some of the old water in from my current tank? Do I put the small filter and air pump from the old tank in as well? So many questions...

I have also currently got this product, "Tetra SafeStart". Will this help to cycle the new tank quicker? I just want to get him moved as quickly as possible as he's not eating anything at the moment and is just sitting at the bottom of the tank.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

Set up the new tank and move the filters over to it once it's fully dechlorinated and well aerated for a few days. Your tank will them be instantly ready. Move the fish over to the new tank, and it's condition may improve much more swiftly than it would have in the old tank.

Whoa, waitaminute... you have Safestart? In that case, clean the filters, put new media in them, and use the Safestart. It'll be a whole new tank, but a safe one. It would be better then using the old filters media, as that way you can get rid of any bad-guy bacteria also in your filters which make your fish sick.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks again.

So, I'll start again with all new gravel? Then fill the new tank up with new water and dechlorinate it. Is it ok to still put some of the ornaments from the old tank in? Out of interest, do I add SafeStart to the tank or each bucket of water, and also the dechlorinater. Just wondered if they'res a specail way of doing it! When I use SafeStart do I still need to leave the tank for a few days or is it really “instant”? Do I have to wait for the water to settle or anything before I add SafeStart?

The only problem I have now is that I need a stand for the tank. The person selling the tank doesn't have one. Does anyone know of a place I can buy them from? I have also found some instructions from here which tell you how to make your own stand. Do you think this would be ok, as I'm quite short on money and don't really want to spend £50 on a stand unless I can avoid it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Making your own stand if fine. There are lots of DIY instructions on the web. It needs to hold about 500 lbs. Support the edge of the tank all the way around and use 2" x 4"s or better for the upright and it will be fine. A cheap stand you can make will have concrete blocks for the uprights and 4"x4" for the cross pieces.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

clean the ornament too!


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

On those instructions-the sturdy frame seem like overkill, if you did all the steps you'd spend more than buying a commercial stand, the standard frame seems a little light, I'd like to see 2"x4" uprights. Where are you located? Try the big chain stores (Wal-mart and PetSmart have reasonable stands here). Also look at steel shelving that will hold the weight. The fish won't care what the stand looks like, use concrete blocks and stick on fabric skirt with velcro to hide them.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks.

I live in England (UK). Am I right in saying that I could make a stand like this?










My dad is very good working with metal, and could probably make it. Does the tank slide into the stand or sit on top (in that picture)?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

That stand can hold two tanks. One on top and one on the bottom (usually slides in from front). Angle Iron is certainly strong enough-if you have the equipment and skill to make good welds, you should be able to make it. Make sure everything is level. If you only need space for one tank you have more options.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks, emc7.

I am just starting to clean out the new tank. Is it ok to clean it with hot water, and should this be dechlorinated first? Is it ok to use some of the old ornaments and air pump that have come with it? I currently have the ornaments stood in hot, declorinated water. I will clean them off in a minute. Will they be safe to use? I don't know what type of fish were in there before though.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

You don't need to dechlor the wash water as long as you dechlor the fish water once you fill it up. You can even use bleach if you suspect the tank had a disease it in. Using old ornaments is fine, again, bleach or run through dishwasher if you suspect the last fish in the tank were sick, otherwise just rinse. If the air pump works, use it. Try to place it above the water level or use a check valve. If the tank was all the way dry, most likely everything bad in the tank has died (algae, ich) and its fine to use after a quick rinse.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks again, emc7!

I have washed the ornaments about 3 times now in a bucket. I have used a new cloth, however I cannot get all the dirt off them. On the plastic plants and rock, there are black bits dotted around in the corners. It looks like old fish waste. Does this matter?

If I do bleach them/the tank, how can I be sure to get all the bleach out, as I have bleached my fish net before, but no matter how many times I rinsed it, it still had a slight smell of bleach.

One last thing, the filter that comes with the tank is a Hagen "BioLife". It says that it is for use in Freshwater and saltwater aquariums. It talks about tropical setups, but it does not mention coldwater fish. Would it be ok to use this filter for my type of fish? It is quite a complicated filter and has "wet/dry with integrated pump and heater (but heater can be removed)"

Thanks very much.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm not familiar with that filter, but if all the parts are present and it works, it should work. To deal with bleach you can let the item completely dry or you can put it in a bucket of water and use a massive dose of dechlorinator. Once you can't smell bleach and the pH of the water is normal, rinse once and it should be completely safe for fish. If the black stuff is fish waste, bleach should destroy it, if its algae, you may need to scrub it with a brush.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks.

I have decided just to clean the tank using hot water. I cleaned it for a good hour. From what I gather, the tank used to have sand in it, as there are still granules of sand here and there. I don't think this will really matter, will it? I have been using an algae scraper to remove most of the brownish stuff down the sides of the tank panes, but there is still a fair bit there. Does this matter? The tank has been out of water for a few months.

Today I am at the final stage. I just need to get my stand in position, buy some more gravel as I haven’t got quite enough, and get some new parts for the filter. Hopefully my local fish shop will have them.

When I add the SafeStart, how long should I leave it before I add the fish? I think I will take it for a water test, and then if it's ok can I add him?
Thanks very much.


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## TheOldSalt (Jan 28, 2005)

One day is fine


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

My tank is now fully set up. I have got it on the cabinet and have filled it with water. I have also added some ornaments. I have dechlorinated the water and added 2 bottles of SafeStart.

I have thoroughly cleaned my filter; however I cannot quite get all the waste out. I have managed to buy all the spare parts (such as the 2 filter foams, BioLife and drip tray screen). The only problem I have is that my filter will not turn on. In the lid of my tank, the power supply comes in. From here it powers the lights. You can also wire up extra items, like the filter. I have checked all the wires but the filter just will not work. (The lights in the tank turn on though).

I am waiting for the person I bought it off to ring me about the problem. Hopefully he will know why. If anyone has any ideas as to why it's not working, please let me know.

Is it ok to leave my filter just sat in the tank doing nothing, until I get it working?


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Just a quick update - I am just on my way to my local delivery depot to pick up my new filter pump as I missed the delivery today.

As there has been no movement in the water, it appears to have gone quite cloudy. Has my water gone stagnant, or could it be the BioLife live bacteria that his leaked out of the filter? I really don't want to have to drain all the water out as I only filled it up Saturday evening!

Does anyone know what this could be?

Btw as soon as I set up the tank, the water went cloudy straight away, but I thought this would go away with time.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Cloudy usually goes away on its own, give it week with the pump running before you start trying to "fix" it.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

I have now got my Filter and air pump going. I have left them going all last night, so they have now been on for about 10 hours. I think the water might have cleared a bit.

The person down my local fish shop told me that it would have gone stagnant due to adding the SafeStart bacteria. He recommends refilling it, but then I've wasted dechlorinater and £10 of SafeStart.

I'll try what you said emc7 and leave them going for a while. Will the water quality eventually go back to how good it was before, or could it now be bad with high anomia, nitrate and nitrite? Bearing in mind, it was slightly cloudy from the start.

Thanks.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> could it now be bad with high anomia, nitrate and nitrite?


New water right? no fish, no food? The amount of of ammonia is limited to the amount of dead/decaying organic stuff in the tank. So you could have dead bacteria from SafeStart or algae from the ornaments but the amount is limited. I would be more worried that the bacteria will starve before you add fish and then ammonia will kill your fish later. The cloudy is most likely from the old sand particles and/or bacteria. If you go a week without feeding the bacteria, you could end up needing the replace the SafeStart. If your water tests good & smells good you can add a few fish. If you don't add fish right away, start feeding the tank anyway.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks, emc7.

The filter and air pump have been going for quite a while now (about 21hours). The water looks much clearer now (yesterday, before I added the pump, you could barely see from one end to the other when you looked sideways).

I have added some pictures of my tank.

What exactly do you mean by "feed" and "fix" the tank?

Thanks.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/10102007037.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/10102007036.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/10102007035.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/10102007034.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/djt1234/10102007033.jpg


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

"fix" means to attack the cloudy water with something. There are things sold to clear water and there are other methods (micron filtration, UV sterilization) that could be recommended. But they can do more harm than good (especially in a new tank) so you should give your tank a chance to recover on its own. By feed, I mean add a source of ammonia for your bacteria to feed on such as actual ammonia, fish food, frozen shrimp, etc. Read the "fishless cycling" sticky. If you don't have anything for the ammonia-eating bacteria to eat, then they will all die, and you will have to cycle the tank again (or buy bacteria again). Your cloudiness doesn't look that bad, though. I think its time to add a fish or two.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for the info.

Do you think my fish will be ok adding it to the the tank, even though he still has popeye?

I don't really want to go for a water test straight away as yesterday I took a sample to my fish shop and they said that it would produce false readings and that I should drain all my water, and didn't even look at my sample of water. He said to come back in 3 days when I have changed the water, so I think i'll probably just buy my own testing kit, as he will probably think I'm mad going back in there. What do you think of this to use myself to test the water?

As my water seems to look ok now and no longer has any smell to it, should I just go ahead and add the fish and hope for the best?

Thanks.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

I have decided to add my fish to the tank. He is swimming around now, where as before when he was in my old tank, he was just sat on the bottom.

He has been in there for about 10 minutes now and I have just turned the light and filter on. He appears to be moving around quite quickly now, but is starting to calm down again.

I have also given him a tiny bit of food, which he eat straight away. This is a big improvement as he has not been eating much recently.

The only slight concern I have is that around his mouth he appears to have a red cut along the top. Also, one of his scales has fallen off, and another one appears to be hanging off.

Do you think he will be ok? :fish: 

Thank you very much.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't know if he will recover, but a larger tank will clean water will give him the best possible chance. Good luck.


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## dannol (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks emc7. I'm now going to buy a water testing kit and hope for the best.

Thank you everyone for all your help. I will keep posting updates.


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