# I'm new too Cichlids.



## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Okay I have a 2 and a half gallon tank. I have four Electric yellows. Now the people at walmart did not know what they were doing and I ended up getting 3 males and 1 female. Do I need to get another tank for the males or what? And what should I be feeding them to keep them as healthy and pretty as possible? And finally should I buy a test kit to make sure the Ph levels are ok? Any help would be appriciated. :fish:


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Oh and is there a better way to find out the gender of an electric yellow?


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## Schism (Jul 20, 2006)

well first of all a 2.5g tank will not be able to house those labs u def need to get a bigger tank or take back those fish, u cant really do too much with a 2.5G tank i would suggest in getting a bigger tank.


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

Yea i would say you should get rid of the labs and get a betta or guppy. That is until you can get a larger tank.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1669

This is what u have...wont fit


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

If you want to keep them, get atleast a 30g tank and exchange 2 of the males for females.

If you can't get a bigger tank, return the labs and get a betta.

Walmart isn't the best place to get fish from because they don't know what their doing (as you see) and sold you labs for a 2.5g tank which is way too small!


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Another person taken advantage of by the fools at Wally World. 

2.5 gallons is too small for any sort of African cichlid. 

I know you are new to the world of cichlids, but with help you can become a wonderful fishkeeper. 

First of all, since labitos are very peaceful, you can keep the males together. I have had complete success with keeping multiple males to less females. They may chase each other a bit, but it never got to the point where they were killing each other. So you will be alright there. 

I also wanted to add, since no one else awnsered you original questions, that yes, feed them, and yes, get a test kit. 

Now, I think you need to find you a bigger tank. You can get them from about anywhere, PetsMart is where I got mine. They usually have 30-40 gallons on sale for dirt cheap. 

I hope I have helped you out a bit! I'll stay updated on this here thread. If you need any help, just ask!


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## Dr_House (Aug 15, 2006)

Just to add to some of the excellent advice...

Now that you have this forum as a resource, make sure you use it before you impulse buy. If you see a fish you like, ask about it before you start drooling on the tank and grab the first employee you can to throw it in a bag for you (something almost every fish-keeper is guilty of early on).

I'd also check PetCo for an aquarium. They will sometimes have good deals, too. However, I wouldn't recommend buying fish from them. In my area, they are in fierce competition with Wal Mart for who has the worst fish and the most ignorant employees.

Let us know if there is anything else we can help you with.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Laura Ann said:


> Another person taken advantage of by the fools at Wally World.
> 
> 2.5 gallons is too small for any sort of African cichlid.
> 
> ...


No WHAT should I feed them?

I don't have the space for a 30 gallon tank.....or the money.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

That's the point. You shouldn't be feeding them, you should be returning them. You are killing them by keeping them in a tank that is WAY too small. Hopefully you cycled the tank before you added them but I'm guessing probably not. If you don't have the money to properly care for them, you shouldn't have them. You should have something that you CAN properly care for, such as a betta. There are very few other fish, and none available at Wal-Marts, that can live in a 2.5g tank for any amount of time.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Okay let me explain why I got a small tank. I had to BEG my mother to let me buy the fish and a new tank (our others are craked) with my own money! And when we got there she wouldn't let me buy anything over 2.5 gallon because they were so big and we don't have much room, unless I put them in our basement. Plus we live in a small town and we don't have a petsmart or petco, it's an hour and a half drive to the closest one! So I didn't have a chance to go there. Cause I hate walmart!


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

If you can't upgrade the tank you *really* need to take them back or try to rehome them. I can't imagine one 4-5 inch fish in a 2 gallon, much less 4. With a tank that size there really aren't a ton of approriate choices... a male guppy or 2 (not a female because then you have the baby problem), a betta, a pair of smaller type killifish, maybe some shrimp if you like those. Each one of those would be a choice, definitely not a combination thing. And if you don't have experience keeping fish, I would highly recommend that you take back the 2.5g and get a 10g. Then you have many more choices and the tank will be MUCH more stable than a smaller 2.5 gallon & they cost about the same. Additionally, you should read up on the nitrogen cycle & cycling your tank.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> That's the point. You shouldn't be feeding them, you should be returning them. You are killing them by keeping them in a tank that is WAY too small. Hopefully you cycled the tank before you added them but I'm guessing probably not. If you don't have the money to properly care for them, you shouldn't have them. You should have something that you CAN properly care for, such as a betta. There are very few other fish, and none available at Wal-Marts, that can live in a 2.5g tank for any amount of time.


No I didn't get a chance to cycle the tank. Hey don't get mad at me! I wanted a 10 gallon tank and only two fish! But when my mom finally said yes she said qoute"If your gonna get them you might as well get two males and two females!" me and my dad just wanted a male and female! And I wanted a bigger tank but SOME people arn't allowed to buy them! And I do have enugh money I'm just not allowed to use it!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Having money and not being allowed to use it is the same thing as not having money. No one is getting mad at you, we're just concerned that you are killing the fish. And yes, you are. You need to tell your parents that they need to be returned to the store, and explain to them nicely that experienced fishkeepers have told you that they will die a very quick death in that tiny tank and you might as well have just flushed the money down the toilet that you spent on them, because that's where the fish are going to end up.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Its not about being mad at you. If all you are allowed to have is a 2.5 gallon, then you need to be responsible and pick fish appropriate for a 2.5 gallon. You cant just take any fish you want and put them in whatever you want and expect good results. Fish, just like any other animal have needs that have to be met. Your fish may be very small today, but they are not close to full grown (knowing what my walmart labs look like anyway). Even if the fish were full grown at the size they are now, its still too many fish for the tank. It's really not about the forced circumstance. It's about being responsible for a living thing that you bought to care for.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> If you can't upgrade the tank you *really* need to take them back or try to rehome them. I can't imagine one 4-5 inch fish in a 2 gallon, much less 4. With a tank that size there really aren't a ton of approriate choices... a male guppy or 2 (not a female because then you have the baby problem), a betta, a pair of smaller type killifish, maybe some shrimp if you like those. Each one of those would be a choice, definitely not a combination thing. And if you don't have experience keeping fish, I would highly recommend that you take back the 2.5g and get a 10g. Then you have many more choices and the tank will be MUCH more stable than a smaller 2.5 gallon & they cost about the same. Additionally, you should read up on the nitrogen cycle & cycling your tank.


Well when they start growing bigger I can convince my mom into getting a bigger tank. And yes I have had allot of fish, just not any cichlids. And yes I have read about cycling a tank.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> Its not about being mad at you. If all you are allowed to have is a 2.5 gallon, then you need to be responsible and pick fish appropriate for a 2.5 gallon. You cant just take any fish you want and put them in whatever you want and expect good results. Fish, just like any other animal have needs that have to be met. Your fish may be very small today, but they are not close to full grown (knowing what my walmart labs look like anyway). Even if the fish were full grown at the size they are now, its still too many fish for the tank. It's really not about the forced circumstance. It's about being responsible for a living thing that you bought to care for.


Well me and my dad were gonna get a 10 gallon tank and two fish I thought that would work. Because I know how big they get! And when they start growing I can EASILY convince my mom into letting me buy a big tank or possibly two depending on how big the tank is. I'm not afraid to empty my savings account to help these little critters keep from dieing because of a small tank or anything I can keep from happening.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, not sure why you asked for advice about keeping them healthy since you don't really want it. Good luck with that.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> Well, not sure why you asked for advice about keeping them healthy since you don't really want it. Good luck with that.


BECAUSE I WANT THEM TO LIVE!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND I WILL BUY THE TANK I JUST HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO MY MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

They aren't going to grow bigger. They are going to be stunted and will die long before they ever get a chance to start growing bigger. They are basically living on death row right now, with apparently no chance of reprieve since you aren't going to take them back.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> They aren't going to grow bigger. They are going to be stunted and will die long before they ever get a chance to start growing bigger. They are basically living on death row right now, with apparently no chance of reprieve since you aren't going to take them back.


THAT'S WHY I'M GONNA TRY TO FIND A TANK!


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

A 10g won't do for labs. These guys get 5 inches long and they should be kept in groups, or atleast thats how people that keep them properly do it. A 30g tank would be minimum for yellow labs IMO. If you can't get a tank that big, return them. You cannot keep them in a 2.5g and you cannot keep them in a 10g, unless you want them to die. Do whats right for the fish and return them. Tell your parents that they will die without a big enough tank. Get a 30g and you can keep them all.

Please care for these fish properly...listen to the advice given on here, these people care about fish. They are giving you advice since you asked for help.

Do the right thing!


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

ok...well after reading this thread I can tell 1 major thing. You need to calm down.

No one is attempting to attack you, we are trying to help. Yes some mothers may not be the most generous, but you did say unless you put it in the basement...That would be perfect. If you get her to let you get a bigger tank and put it in the basement that would be superb.

If you have had many fish like you say you have, what were they?

If possible how big of a tank could you get and how soon could you get it? if it were to go into the basement that is.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Bear said:


> ok...well after reading this thread I can tell 1 major thing. You need to calm down.
> 
> No one is attempting to attack you, we are trying to help. Yes some mothers may not be the most generous, but you did say unless you put it in the basement...That would be perfect. If you get her to let you get a bigger tank and put it in the basement that would be superb.
> 
> If you have had many fish like you say you have, what were they?


Well I feel like they are attacking. I'm already crying because I want to keep them but they are trying to get me to get rid of them. The only reason I don't have them down there now is it's so cold down there, and my mom says the heater I bought for them wont work enough. 

I've had wild catfish that we caught out of the river and raised, tetras other little ones, goldfish, corys, more fish that I don't remember the names too, a small crab, two really cool looking yellow fish (they ate like crazy! they killed the crab and some tetras) a couple bettas one that lived 8 years and ended up dieing from getting sick or something (it had alge start growing on it).


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

My husband has limited my tank size also. I can not have anything more than a 20 gallon in the normal part of the house. So I have to keep my beautiful angels in the basement. I do understand the inconvenience. Believe me, sitting in the basement to look at something beautiful is a bit odd feeling at first *laugh* Just make a comfy sitting area in a little part of the basement with the tank. I currently have a small wooden child's chair parked in front of my angel tanks LOL. Not even comfy! But, when Im watching them I really don't care. Hopefully one day I'll be able to convince hubby that a bigger tank would be fine upstairs. He's afraid its going to fall through the floor...


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> My husband has limited my tank size also. I can not have anything more than a 20 gallon in the normal part of the house. So I have to keep my beautiful angels in the basement. I do understand the inconvenience. Believe me, sitting in the basement to look at something beautiful is a bit odd feeling at first *laugh* Just make a comfy sitting area in a little part of the basement with the tank. I currently have a small wooden child's chair parked in front of my angel tanks LOL. Not even comfy! But, when Im watching them I really don't care. Hopefully one day I'll be able to convince hubby that a bigger tank would be fine upstairs. He's afraid its going to fall through the floor...


Oh I'm not afraid cause I live in our basement. I was just afraid it was too cold, I don't want it to hurt the fish.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh as far as the heater... I don't know how cold it gets where you are, but my angels did fine in the basement over the winter here. I'll be honest and admit I was worried about that also. I put a much larger heater in my tank than was necessary. Once I saw that was keeping it stable, I cut back and ended up with a normal size heater for both tanks down there. Petsmart online has some clearance submersibles that are really cheap... they say that heaters arent the place to skimp but so far I've been fine with mine.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

Is the basement finished (like has rooms)? I assume it is since you live down there. My room and tanks are in the finished part of our basement and my tanks stay nice and warm for the fish. If you get the right heater, you shouldn't have a problem. The room temp stays around 75F and in the winter it gets a little lower, maybe around 70F...I'm not sure, but its pretty cool. My heaters stay on all winter long to keep the tanks around 78F.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> Oh as far as the heater... I don't know how cold it gets where you are, but my angels did fine in the basement over the winter here. I'll be honest and admit I was worried about that also. I put a much larger heater in my tank than was necessary. Once I saw that was keeping it stable, I cut back and ended up with a normal size heater for both tanks down there. Petsmart online has some clearance submersibles that are really cheap... they say that heaters arent the place to skimp but so far I've been fine with mine.


Well I use an electric blanket during the summer here.....but I'm a wimp. Well that makes me feel ALLOT better! And my mom is doing some building down there now. She's building new rooms and stuff and when thats done I could move them down there.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Is the basement finished (like has rooms)? I assume it is since you live down there. My room and tanks are in the finished part of our basement and my tanks stay nice and warm for the fish. If you get the right heater, you shouldn't have a problem. The room temp stays around 75F and in the winter it gets a little lower, maybe around 70F...I'm not sure, but its pretty cool. My heaters stay on all winter long to keep the tanks around 78F.


Yes it is, and my new room is surrounded by insulation so it should stay very warm so they really would be fine down there.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

My basement is not finished or heated at all. Just set it up without fish at first and monitor the temp if you are worried about it. You could always bump up a size heater if its not enough.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> My basement is not finished or heated at all. Just set it up without fish at first and monitor the temp if you are worried about it. You could always bump up a size heater if its not enough.


Okay I'll do that plus I'll buy a thermometer. Now I just need to convince my mom into letting me buy them. 

I'll be back later but you people have made me cry and I don't feel good now I'm gonna go.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

> Yes it is, and my new room is surrounded by insulation so it should stay very warm so they really would be fine down there.


So all you need to do now is convince your mom that the fish need a bigger tank. These fish will grow 5 inches, which will be cramped in a 2.5g for sure. How long would you have to wait to get a bigger tank and equipment? I wouldn't wait long. They will start growing, and while they don't grow really fast, they are in a tank now that is way too small. I would try to get one within the next couple weeks....yes I said weeks. 

Feed them some flakes, preferably cichlid flakes if you can find some. They should eat them.

Change out the water every 1-2 days about 50% each time. Get a test kit. In that small of a tank, with all those fish, the ammonia will probably get high, so daily water changes are best. When you get the test kit, test the water and if the ammonia or nitrite level gets above 1ppm (or close to it), change out some water.


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

Im with JustOneMore20. Just keep doing the water changes each day, feed them the flakes (only as much as they can eat in 30 sec at the most) and when possible jump on getting the bigger tank. If anyone is worried about the tank getting too cold just get another heater. Its not it could hurt


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

No need to yell, its the truth. You will need at absolute least a 20 gallon, preferably a 30 gallon to house these fish, they will not grow bigger in that tank because they will be stunted, ammonia poisoned, and killed within a few weeks. African cichlids are not easy fish to start with. What filter do you have? How many watts is your heater? Do you know about pH, water hardness, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? 

please be responsible and take these fish back, I predict their death within the next week or two, even if you manage to set up a 30 gallon today, because it wont be cycled.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Sorry, I disagree with JustOneMore20 and Bear. You need to return them immediately. Water changes are not going to do much to keep them alive and keep them from being stunted, no matter where in your house you keep them. Sticking a heater in the tank is only going to make things worse, as its going to make a very small space even smaller. They need to be returned, no ifs, ands or butts about it.


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## Vermifugert (Jun 15, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Sorry, I disagree with JustOneMore20 and Bear. You need to return them immediately. Water changes are not going to do much to keep them alive and keep them from being stunted, no matter where in your house you keep them. Sticking a heater in the tank is only going to make things worse, as its going to make a very small space even smaller. They need to be returned, no ifs, ands or butts about it.


The fact is there are 4 Africans in a 2.5 gallon tank. A most likely un cycled tank for that matter. By the time this thread has come to a conclusion the ammonia alone will have killed these fish. Stunting won’t even have the chance to be an issue.

Regardless there just isn’t enough time to get a new tankand cycle it before the damage has been done. 

I’m going to agree that you really need at least a 27-30 gallon tank for these guys. I would seriously go back to the drawing board. Take the fish back, decide what tank you REALLY want and cycle it properly. 

Then pick out some fish


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

...when i said heater i was speaking of one for the larger tank. When it comes to keeping them in this tank, I would only do so if the new tank could be gotten very soon, as in today or tomarrow. When it comes to the fish not living through the cycle, well I would think they would, but then that depends on the attention that would be paid to them and how damaged they are already, I am not too sure of how many other people will do daily 25% water changes until their tank cycles

all in all I still think you should return ur fish, get ur money back for them and then when you are able to get the bigger tank come here and cichlid-forum.com and completely research what is it you want, what you need, and what will fit ur tank.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> So all you need to do now is convince your mom that the fish need a bigger tank. These fish will grow 5 inches, which will be cramped in a 2.5g for sure. How long would you have to wait to get a bigger tank and equipment? I wouldn't wait long. They will start growing, and while they don't grow really fast, they are in a tank now that is way too small. I would try to get one within the next couple weeks....yes I said weeks.
> 
> Feed them some flakes, preferably cichlid flakes if you can find some. They should eat them.
> 
> Change out the water every 1-2 days about 50% each time. Get a test kit. In that small of a tank, with all those fish, the ammonia will probably get high, so daily water changes are best. When you get the test kit, test the water and if the ammonia or nitrite level gets above 1ppm (or close to it), change out some water.


I have already told her, and she said she would decide. She doesn't want the fish to die so I should be able too get a big tank (within a week most likely).


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I expect them to die by then, and if they dont they will need to go into an uncycled tank. Its very good your trying to get a bigger tank but I still think you should return the fish now and spare them. You should start with some easy fish that wont die as easily. If you insist on going with these same fish and they survive, you'll need at least a 25 to 30 gallon, and dont expect them to have an average lifespan after that because they were used to cycle tanks, and have probably been ammonia poisioned a little already. Also if you use tap water to fill the new tank it will need to sit for a couple of days to let it dechlorinate, then put some startright or something similar in there to get rid of other chemicals.


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

I am with Gourami on this one... 

Them being thrown into an uncycled tank can kill them quickly. Labitos are very fragile. I have had labitos die with just a touch of a nitrate spike. 

You should start out with something more... hardy. I find alot of the zebra (can't think of the scientific name at the moment) species (sp?) are alot more hardy than the labitos.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't see how returning them too walmart will save them, they will LET them die.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Well then give them too a different LFS. They'll take them in. Your basically letting them die by not bringing them back. I know it sounds harsh, but its the truth.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Gourami Swami said:


> Well then give them too a different LFS. They'll take them in. Your basically letting them die by not bringing them back. I know it sounds harsh, but its the truth.


LFS? What does that mean? I might get one tomorrow, problem is it might be 100 gallon.


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Local Fish Store

100 gallon?? That is great! You could do a WONDERFUL african tank with that, and not only have your 4 labs, but have even more labs, plus some other beautiful africans!


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

dont worry i made the same mistake alot of times and with the help with these guys/girls offer you should be pretty good if u LISTEN to them i mean they helped me out ALOT. now about the tank look online and in the paper i picked up a 37 gallon tank with a few access. for $60


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Laura Ann said:


> Local Fish Store
> 
> 100 gallon?? That is great! You could do a WONDERFUL african tank with that, and not only have your 4 labs, but have even more labs, plus some other beautiful africans!


Oh we don't have fish stores around here. That is a 2 hour or more drive.

Well I don't know yet, I need to call my cousin and ask him if I can buy it, or if he still has it. Plus he had two tanks so I could get a different size tank.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Phantom_Cichlid said:


> dont worry i made the same mistake alot of times and with the help with these guys/girls offer you should be pretty good if u LISTEN to them i mean they helped me out ALOT. now about the tank look online and in the paper i picked up a 37 gallon tank with a few access. for $60


Oh that tank would be perfect! I will listen, but I can't give these fish back cause walmart will let them die! Atleast I will fight for them!


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

but see if the die @ wallys world its not your fault and u wont feel guilty


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Phantom_Cichlid said:


> but see if the die @ wallys world its not your fault and u wont feel guilty


Yes I will because I will know that I could have POSSIBLY saved them!


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

but thats only if u get a bigger tank


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Phantom_Cichlid said:


> but thats only if u get a bigger tank


Yes well I would rather know that I tried to save them than them being left on a counter and dieing.


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

well actually they are put back in the tank


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Phantom_Cichlid said:


> well actually they are put back in the tank


Probably not at our wally world, it's terrible!


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

oh ok sorry that i asumed that they all do that


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

YES! I have a 55 gallon tank now. I will pickit up tomorrow or Friday.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Yes they will all be put back into the tank, even the most idiotic associate would do that. And I hate to rain on your parade, but they are probably worse off in your 2.5 gallon than in a tank at Wal-M***, considering that your tank is uncycled and (correct me if im wrong) filled with tap water that is full of chlorine, chloramine, flouride, and god knows what else. I am sticking by what I said before, I give them a week at most. At least the tanks in wally world will be cycled and most likely chemical free.

EDIT: Saw your post, And I still give them a week considering they will still be in uncycled tapwater. Better though. Id still return the fish.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Gourami Swami said:


> Yes they will all be put back into the tank, even the most idiotic associate would do that. And I hate to rain on your parade, but they are probably worse off in your 2.5 gallon than in a tank at Wal-M***, considering that your tank is uncycled and (correct me if im wrong) filled with tap water that is full of chlorine, chloramine, flouride, and god knows what else. I am sticking by what I said before, I give them a week at most. At least the tanks in wally world will be cycled and most likely chemical free.
> 
> EDIT: Saw your post, And I still give them a week considering they will still be in uncycled tapwater. Better though. Id still return the fish.


I did use the stuff that helps remove chlorine and other chemicals.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I'd really like to see what kind of 55g you are getting. Once you have it, upload a pic.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> I'd really like to see what kind of 55g you are getting. Once you have it, upload a pic.


Thats how big my aunt said it was. She's giving it to me for free so that solves my money problem. I just need to make room in my basement. But as soon as I get it I will upload a pic first thing (along with the fish).


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

i cant wait to see how you setup the tank


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I think Boxermom meant shape, as in a 55 tall or long or hex.


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

hopefully long cuz dont the need more space then anything i mean they are fast swimmers if i recall


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

No, labs will do fine in any sort of 55 besides hex, I think, but a long is usually better. Lots of rockwork and they will be fine. But I still doubt they'll survive.


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Gourami, 

He will be fine with an uncycled tank. All he needs is stress zyme. Lay off of him, would you? If they die, oh well, it isn't like he can't get more. 

Chill, he is new and we are here to help him, not critisize him because he doesn't know what he is doing.


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

I didnt mean to "be on him" I just didnt want to sound like I was contradicting myself because I said theyd be fine if he had lots of rockwork.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Thank you Laura Ann. 
Okay here is an update. All four fish are doing fine (4th day) I will change half of the water again today to keep the water clean. And my mom said I could get the tank when my new room is complete, but she's not happy. I did ask her about taking them back and she said no, so I will try to keep them. And the sad part, my parents WANT me to keep them in the 2.5 gallon tank to make there growth be stunted, but thats just cruel and I will never do that! I will release them in our pond or river before that!


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Good, now your at least showing the right attitude. Stunting doesnt just make them stay small, it kills them slowly because their insdes dont stop growing, just their outside. What do you mean, room is done? How long will this take?


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2006)

> I will release them in our pond or river before that!


Don't release them into a river!

How long before your room is done? I just hope they don't die before you can get the tank. Why can't you return them?


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

I applaud you for trying to handle matters and hope you can get that tank up fast. One thing that needs to be said about your last post tho - Please never put your aquarium animals/plants into nature. The effects of one seemingly small act can have a tremendous ripple effect on the natural ecosystem already in place and can cause a multitude of changes that you really couldn't begin to guess at including even eventually possible extinction of other species. To hear people talk about going collecting and finding natural fish populations being extremely low because someone released something into the water that either ate the population or outcompeted the population for food... or destroyed their habitats - is just sad beyond words. One act may or may not have that grave of an effect, but how could you know? The safest way is just don't ever do it.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Gourami Swami said:


> Good, now your at least showing the right attitude. Stunting doesnt just make them stay small, it kills them slowly because their insdes dont stop growing, just their outside. What do you mean, room is done? How long will this take?


I mean I have a room down there but my mom is building me a new room and a bathroom and will knock down my old one. If she works hard two days, but she's going away on work all weekend.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Don't release them into a river!
> 
> How long before your room is done? I just hope they don't die before you can get the tank. Why can't you return them?


She said we went through all the trouble too get them and I said I would take care of them, that were not getting rid of them.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> I applaud you for trying to handle matters and hope you can get that tank up fast. One thing that needs to be said about your last post tho - Please never put your aquarium animals/plants into nature. The effects of one seemingly small act can have a tremendous ripple effect on the natural ecosystem already in place and can cause a multitude of changes that you really couldn't begin to guess at including even eventually possible extinction of other species. To hear people talk about going collecting and finding natural fish populations being extremely low because someone released something into the water that either ate the population or outcompeted the population for food... or destroyed their habitats - is just sad beyond words. One act may or may not have that grave of an effect, but how could you know? The safest way is just don't ever do it.


I just don't want them too die from being stunted.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

We don't either... but, I'll be honest and say that I think it would be much better for them to die than to risk doing who knows what damage by turning them loose in a place they don't belong. 

In my eyes, your options are A) upgrade the tank.. pronto B) return the fish to the store C) give away or sell the fish to someone better equipped. I don't see turning them out as an option.

It sounds like you are going for choice A.. great!


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm not going to release them, because I know what they can do. But I WILL NOT let them suffer by being cramped in a small tank! And option B and C are out of the question! I will try too save these fish! I made a beginers mistake but I will try too make it right!


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## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Thats the attitude! So your saying your mom is building you a room and will be finished in 4 days(2 away, 2 workin)? Well In that case buy the tank and fill it as soon as the room is done, but let the tank sit empty for 24 hours with the start right chemicals in them. Then drop in some refrigerated bio-spira, which will basically cycle your tank in a few days.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2006)

Can you get some sand for the bottom and some rocks to make caves?


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Gourami Swami said:


> Thats the attitude! So your saying your mom is building you a room and will be finished in 4 days(2 away, 2 workin)? Well In that case buy the tank and fill it as soon as the room is done, but let the tank sit empty for 24 hours with the start right chemicals in them. Then drop in some refrigerated bio-spira, which will basically cycle your tank in a few days.


Bio-spira? Can you buy it at walmart cause thats the only fish store we have. And what is start right chemicals?


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Can you get some sand for the bottom and some rocks to make caves?


I don't know about sand but I can get allot of rocks. Big rocks also.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm just worried, my mom is wanting me too wait a week or possibly two before I set the tank up. I need too set it up soon!


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

You can buy "pool filter sand" at like home depot if you have one of those around. Its very cheap! I don't think you will be finding bio-spira at walmart or even petsmart. You can order it online but its pricey and has to be express shipped. Walmart may carry "Cycle". In my experience, this stuff did NOT work at all.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> You can buy "pool filter sand" at like home depot if you have one of those around. Its very cheap! I don't think you will be finding bio-spira at walmart or even petsmart. You can order it online but its pricey and has to be express shipped. Walmart may carry "Cycle". In my experience, this stuff did NOT work at all.


Alright then I wont be buying it. Well would sand from the river work? It's free and my mom would not care if I got that. And no we don't have home depots around here.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Two schools of thought on that. 

One - Absolutely take sand from the river. Its already full of bacteria to help you cycle your tank & fish in the river are probably less likely to be diseased than your walmart fish.

Two - Its a big risk introducing parasites/disease into your tank. Never put anything into your tank without boiling etc first.

I'm not going to say either way is right. I think you should research it a tad and make your own decision. You do need to be careful about putting rocks in there that can change the ph of your water.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Oh and the rocks are from the river also.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm not sure about the sand either.

If you can post pictures of the rocks when you get them, we can try to ID them. With African cichlids, like your yellow labs, they need a high pH, so if you get some rocks that are like limestone, you will be fine.

You'll need to scrub the rocks in hot water to get any dirt or organisms off of them. Some people say to boil them, but I've read that some rocks could explode if boiled for awhile (not sure if this is true though). I'd just pour hot water over them and scrub.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Oh don't worry I will scrub them. But I will go down too the river this afternoon and take a picture.


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

omg u guys will not believe what i found while catching minnows
i found a pleco and albino cory
also in some ponds down here they have dalmation mollies in them i got some today


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

That is too cool Phantom!


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## Phantom_Cichlid (Jul 3, 2006)

omg im so sorry i meant to post this in mine but yes i know its cool i wish i would have found more corys


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Okay here are the rocks. 
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/redeads/Rocks1.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/redeads/Rocks2.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/redeads/Rocks3.jpg

Sorry i couldn't get them before, my grandmother was mad at me for riding my 4-wheeler on a place she mows.


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## cheesy feet (Jul 27, 2006)

cowelder said:


> No I didn't get a chance to cycle the tank. Hey don't get mad at me! I wanted a 10 gallon tank and only two fish! But when my mom finally said yes she said qoute"If your gonna get them you might as well get two males and two females!" me and my dad just wanted a male and female! And I wanted a bigger tank but SOME people arn't allowed to buy them! And I do have enugh money I'm just not allowed to use it!



Sorry but i havnt read the whole psot yet but THIS i find hilarious,im 12 and i don't have tantrums anymore...hahaha


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## cheesy feet (Jul 27, 2006)

cowelder said:


> BECAUSE I WANT THEM TO LIVE!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND I WILL BUY THE TANK I JUST HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO MY MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think im going to spazz out on the floor of laughter..


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## cheesy feet (Jul 27, 2006)

cowelder said:


> Okay I'll do that plus I'll buy a thermometer. Now I just need to convince my mom into letting me buy them.
> 
> I'll be back later but you people have made me cry and I don't feel good now I'm gonna go.


I hope i don't get kiked from the forums from this but this guy has issues..


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

^^^

i remember being 12...that was great, almost everything was funny


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

The truely saddest part to this whole thread is that as we read and posted here, some person from Wally Mart with no fish experience has probably sold 50 more fish into tanks and handlers that have no clue what they are doing....... Although I dont agree with the kids decision not to give the fish away, I do applaud the fact that he eventually came to this board and asked for help.  Which is more then the other ppl did who bought 3 peac*cks and housed them in a 5g tank to fit on their kitchen counter. The real issue here is the ppl at WalMart, not this kid. He's 15 or whatever, and didn't know better. The same excuse shouldnt be accepted by the grown adults who work their and didnt take the time to ask what size tank they are going in, or take the time to know their product before the sold them. Just my opinion....... 

Zig.


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## Bear (Jun 8, 2006)

but that statement is coming form someone who cares about the fish. The administration at wally mart couldnt care less, as far as they are interested the salesmen couldnt be telling enough untruths to sell the fish.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

girth vader said:


> The truely saddest part to this whole thread is that as we read and posted here, some person from Wally Mart with no fish experience has probably sold 50 more fish into tanks and handlers that have no clue what they are doing....... Although I dont agree with the kids decision not to give the fish away, I do applaud the fact that he eventually came to this board and asked for help. Which is more then the other ppl did who bought 3 peac*cks and housed them in a 5g tank to fit on their kitchen counter. The real issue here is the ppl at WalMart, not this kid. He's 15 or whatever, and didn't know better. The same excuse shouldnt be accepted by the grown adults who work their and didnt take the time to ask what size tank they are going in, or take the time to know their product before the sold them. Just my opinion.......
> 
> Zig.


Well you might need too know a little bit more about me before you say that stuff. I have had plenty of fish and my bro and mom has too. And I even got online before before I bought them and read about them but stupid me thought 5'' meant centimeters, so now I know it's inches and I'm gonna get a new tank. If I would have known that from the beggining I would have NEVER bought them untill I had a tank set up. And the man at wal-mart didn't know what he was doing, I had too tell him wich ones were male and female. And if I had a pet store or fish store I would go there. But some people don't realize there are small towns left in US.


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## girth vader (Apr 24, 2006)

LOL. If you actually did read a thing or 2 on them, you would have also read something about tank and water needs. You obviously didnt. So keep chirping little birdie. No point lying about stuff, just makes you look worse in the end. And I tried cutting you some slack.......... when will some of these kids learn........sheesh.:withstup:


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

cowelder said:


> And the man at wal-mart didn't know what he was doing, I had too tell him wich ones were male and female.



and earlier:



> Now the people at walmart did not know what they were doing and I ended up getting 3 males and 1 female.


mrh :x 

Anyway, where are your fish at now? How are they doing?


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

girth vader said:


> LOL. If you actually did read a thing or 2 on them, you would have also read something about tank and water needs. You obviously didnt. So keep chirping little birdie. No point lying about stuff, just makes you look worse in the end. And I tried cutting you some slack.......... when will some of these kids learn........sheesh.:withstup:


I don't care what you believe because I know I did read about them. And that was before I found this place or I would have asked you people first! And I don't care what you think about me, because I know that I made a mistake and I'm gonna try too fix it!


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Zoe said:


> and earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I think I have 2 females and 2 males but I didn't think so at first. I don't know what they are but I'm positive about 2 males and 1 female. There in there tank like normal, I will set up my new tank when my room is done. They are all fine I just changed half the water today.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Cowelder, we're thrilled you're trying to fix the mistake and help the fish, but it's kind of insulting to our collective intelligence to tell us you did your research.
No one who puts 4 yellow labs in a 2.5gallon tank. Even if you did think that 5 inches meant 5 centimeters, 2.5 gallons would still be ridiculously too small. Also, any caresheets that I've seen pertaining to electric yellows all say "Minimum tank size - 20 gallons, 30 gallons, 50 gallons" etc.
And then to say that you told the Wally world guy how to sex them, yet you ended up with 3 males and 1 female?

I mean, mistakes happen, and it's great that you're fixing it, but part of it is taking responisibility for the mistake you made.

Are they still in that 2.5gal?


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## Laura Ann (May 3, 2006)

Haha, Zoe, you are wrong. I did the exact same thing when I got my first labitos... added them to a tiny tiny tank. A 2.5 gallon to be exact. Why? Because I didn't do my research. Who cares if he didn't? I know I don't. 

If you people don't already know... this poster is a *child*. Cut him some slack, would you? 

He is working on getting the problem fixed, and that is all that matters now. What's done is done, and we can't go back in time and fix it. 

So, chill out. Can it about the 2.5 gallon, and lets move on to helping him get his bigger tank set up, shall we?:fish::fish:


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Oh aye, it's an easy mistake to make, I'm sure, they are small baby fish. I just find it hard to believe that someone who read up on them wouldn't know not to put them in a 2.5gallon tank.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Zoe said:


> Cowelder, we're thrilled you're trying to fix the mistake and help the fish, but it's kind of insulting to our collective intelligence to tell us you did your research.
> No one who puts 4 yellow labs in a 2.5gallon tank. Even if you did think that 5 inches meant 5 centimeters, 2.5 gallons would still be ridiculously too small. Also, any caresheets that I've seen pertaining to electric yellows all say "Minimum tank size - 20 gallons, 30 gallons, 50 gallons" etc.
> And then to say that you told the Wally world guy how to sex them, yet you ended up with 3 males and 1 female?
> 
> ...


Well I did and I don't care if you think I didn't! Well I don't guess I saw those caresheets. I just googled Electric Yellow Labido thats it! I told him that males have more black (which is not alway true) but he didn't know. And I now think it's 2 males and 2 females. And I am taking reponsibility! You people just wont take the time to consider if I'm telling the truth!


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I'm sorry if what I said upset you. I'm glad you are trying to work it out, good luck setting up your new tank.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Zoe said:


> I'm sorry if what I said upset you. I'm glad you are trying to work it out, good luck setting up your new tank.


It really did. But it's all okay. I just want my fish to be healthy and having all of you people breathing down my neck DOESN'T help.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Well, a lot of people here are passionate about fish. I daresay they care less that you made a mistake and more that the fish you have aren't in the greatest of conditions right now. You'll have to forgive those of us who may be over-passionate.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Well I'm passionate about fish too. But I wont act like I will kill someone because of a mistake.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Okay heres an update. The room wont be finished untill next week(over 7 days) because my dad is working midnight this week. So no construction can be done. Me and my mom are going to petsmart this weekend will on a vacation. So I will pick up some stuff while I'm there. P.S. My dad is gonna watch the fish. (I'm so worried leaving them)


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Oh yeah I'm getting a 40 gallon tank for them.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2006)

Make sure your dad will do daily water changes (hopefully you are doing daily water changes). 40g is a good size for them.

Before you go to Petsmart, I'd check out their website and find the stuff you need (filter, heater, etc...). The prices are cheaper online and if you print out the page with the price, they will match it in the store. Save some money! 

I believe that you did some research, I just don't think you did enough. Even if it was centimeters, that is still too big to have 4 in a 2.5g tank. You just didn't realize that. Also, I think its really hard to tell males and females apart. I've read a few sites about sexing yellow labs and most say you have to vent them. You can't be sure just by looking at them. I still have more research to do to sex them because I'll be buying some in a few weeks...hopefully.

Good luck....keep us updated!


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

JustOneMore20 said:


> Make sure your dad will do daily water changes (hopefully you are doing daily water changes). 40g is a good size for them.
> 
> Before you go to Petsmart, I'd check out their website and find the stuff you need (filter, heater, etc...). The prices are cheaper online and if you print out the page with the price, they will match it in the store. Save some money!
> 
> ...


I'm doing water changes every other day. My dad doesn't know the meaning of water change! He changes it when it turns green! Thats his sign too change it!

Well I'm already here and I don't have a printer....that sucks.

Well does the fact I have two tanks help? A 2.5 and a 3 I need too clean. I was gonna but two in each when they were bigger. But they will be two big. Yes they are very hard too tell the difference.


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

Seems you need to explain more to your dad about water change.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Blue said:


> Seems you need to explain more to your dad about water change.


Explaining too him wouldn't help at all. He is the one that told me too make those four fish stay in that tank. And make there growth get stunted. But I wont do that.


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

So you have a 2g & a 3g... but since they are too big for even the 3g, you are keeping them all 4 in the 2g?


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## Lupin (Aug 1, 2006)

Your father is a beast, Cowelder.
Stunting their growths is infantile or rather abusive.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> So you have a 2g & a 3g... but since they are too big for even the 3g, you are keeping them all 4 in the 2g?


Uh....good question...I could have two in each untill I get the other tank...I'm an idiot.


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## cowelder (Aug 16, 2006)

Blue said:


> Your father is a beast, Cowelder.
> Stunting their growths is infantile or rather abusive.


I know and he's very annoying. And I wont do it, I wont let them suffer.


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