# Cycle with fish



## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm doing a cycle with fish. 2 cory cats, 5 neons, 6 zebra danios. I feed daily, 10% changes daily. After 3 weeks still no sign of nitrite. Can I do anything to speed things up. I've even been adding "Cycle" every few days. Any helpful advice is appreciated.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Have you had an ammonia spike?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

"Cycle" is worthless. Do you have any plants in the tank? How big is the tank?


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2006)

neons will most likely not survive a cycle.
I would reccomend getting bio spira. this will speed your cycle up dramatically, like a few days, and it may very well save most, if not all your fish.


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

OK, I'll try the bio-spira tomorrow. Most of the reviews I've read all say it's bologna but I'll give it a shot for fish sake!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I've not found anyone it hasn't worked for and I've personally used it in about 10 of my 14 tanks with great success.


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm on top of it. Will post results as soon as I know something. Thanks for the help and quick reply everyone!


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2006)

I don't know what reviews you're reading because I've also used it with great success in most of my tanks.


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## Moses (Aug 21, 2006)

I use Seachem Stability for cycling with a few comets.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Stability, Cycle, etc., do not have the correct live bacteria. Biospira is the only readily available product that does.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Does Cycle do absolutely nothing? I used to use it and never had any problems using it to cycle a tank? odd...


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Well yes, it does do something. Wastes money.  Honestly though, it doesn't have the right kind of live bacteria needed for the nitrification cycle.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Well, when I first got a tank, I got the better part of bottle of it for free, so, I didn't pay for it myself 

But why did the tank still cycle okay? I didn't test the water parameters but I added all my fish a couple days later with no ill results.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

If you didn't test the water parameters, how do you know it worked?  Many fish can survive cycling, but it damages their long term health and they will die prematurely.


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Good point!


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

30 gallon tank and I just added a pack of bio spira rated for up to 30 gallons. Hope to see results in a few days. It says overnite, however, I'm not that hopeful. Hoping to see a trace of nitrites soon!


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Keep an eye on your parameters, it may take only a day. Once the cycle is complete you don't want to leave the tank without any fish for too long, or the bacteria will die off.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I think he has it full of fish, no?


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

there are fish in it now


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

Oh! oops, my bad.

-takes foot out of mouth-


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Zoe, thanks for the help. I appreciate you and everyone trying to help solve this problem. Input is always welcome.


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

24 hours later, no change in parameters. I didn't think so but just want to point it out since it does say it works overnight.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

You never answered my question (or else I missed it): Are there any plants in the tank?


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## Moses (Aug 21, 2006)

I find it hard to believe that a highly respectable company such as Seachem offers a product for cycling with the 'incorrect live bacteria' in it...
Stability™ is the culmination of nearly a decade of research and development and represents the current state of the art in natural biological management.
I guess they lie


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Tina - I overlooked your question, there are no live plants yet. When I get things stable I would like to add some.

Moses - Don't believe everything you read.

Does tooth whitening toothpaste really whiten your teeth?
Does oxyclean really magically clean your clothes?
The list goes on but my point is that some products simply don't work, however, they will stay on the shelf as long as consumers like us continue to purchase them. 

What makes sense to me is. Cycle is a shelf product requiring no refrigeration and has no expiration date yet is supposed to promote the growth of our bacteria that will begin to die without the correct environment? Just my opinion, I may be completely off.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Believe what you want. However, bottled products that sit on shelves do not contain live bacteria, and not the type that's needed for cycling. There are only two such products, one is BioSpira, the other is not readily available to consumers - its used in mass quantities for public aquariums and such and is extremely difficult to find. Neither cannot remain unrefrigerated for long. With both, you add once.


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Well, I'll be a SOB! I'm shocked, three weeks of cycling with fish and no nitrite. You all know I just added Bio Spira less than 48 hours ago and I now have a nitrite spike. Cycle didn't work for **** and Bio-Spira did the trick. Thanks for the tip everyone!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Your cycle should be complete within the next day or two. Its not exactly "instant" but close to it.


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## Moses (Aug 21, 2006)

I believe what I see. I have used Stability to cycle 3 55 gal tanks at once testing each day and they cycled in 12 days. I used feeder goldies for the first 6 days and had nothing. Someone suggested I try Stability and shock horror it worked. Maybe it was just a fluke...on 3 tanks.
Anywho we could rave on for days about this. The fact of the matter is, is that there are many products out there for aquariums. Personally I think that we should listen and respect everyone's opinion without shutting down there voice without reason. If something worked for me but didn't work for someone else doesn't mean I have the right to tell the other person a product is useless.
Jeff I'm happy your tank cycled


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Thank you Moses, the fish are happy too!


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Mom - are you saying that my amonia should bottom out to zero in the next couple days? Since the nitrite is up does that mean bacteria is forming? If that's the case.... since they double in colony size every 16 hours then I should have enough to combat the amonia? Hopefully this is correct. At that point I will still test here and there and change water to drop nitrates.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

The bacteria isn't forming, its there. You should have had ammonia readings before nitrite readings. Ammonia gets turned into nitrites, nitrites get turned into nitrates. When your ammonia and nitrite readings are zero and you are getting nitrate readings, your cycle is complete. When it finishes, if you want to add more fish, only add a couple at a time to prevent kicking up a mini-cycle.


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Yes, the amonia is at .5 and the nitrite is about .25-.50. Were you saying the amonia and nitrite should drop in a few days? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm just trying to grasp this concept. I've done research but just want to make sure. Thank you for your help once again.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Yup, with Biospira, it should be complete in one or two days.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

SO what fish would be the best to use for the cycle? I have a 20g tank i need to establish and i would like some recommendations on which fish to stock it with to cycle it


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

IMO, you would be better off simply not using fish to cycle your tank at all. Use bio-spira, and/or some gravel or filter media from an established tank.

Your cycle will complete much more quickly, and without harming any fish.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Or read up on doing a fishless cycle. Takes longer than Biospira or using established filter media, but is much more humane as it doesn't harm any fish.


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## dolifisis (Sep 27, 2006)

I just finished a fishless cycle on a 12 gallon and it took exactly 3 weeks. The Gallonator was cycling at the same time however I'm not sure what size tank he was working with. Maybe he'll post an update


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Boxermom said:


> Or read up on doing a fishless cycle. Takes longer than Biospira or using established filter media, but is much more humane as it doesn't harm any fish.


+1

If I had to do it over I would have gone with fishless cycling with pure amonia. I lost a few fish during my cycle, hopefully they all make it through the rest of the cycle.


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## jeffm1000 (Oct 13, 2006)

Humpy said:


> SO what fish would be the best to use for the cycle? I have a 20g tank i need to establish and i would like some recommendations on which fish to stock it with to cycle it



If you post where you are maybe someone can give you some already established filter media. If you are around NH, I'll be happy to give you some.

EDIT: I just noticed you have a 33 gallon tank. You can use media from that to start your next tank and save time and money.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

I plan on getting a Black Ghost Knifefish and leaving it in the quarantine tank for about a month, in which time i will buy another tank 150-250g tank to put the oscars in, then move the Knifefish into the 33g tank.

So i put a sponge from my 20g filter into the 33g filter and will use that to start up the 20g tank. 
How long should i leave the sponge in there before it is good enough to use in the other tank?
Also is that enough the cycle the tank? Will it be safe to put my fish in there right away or should i wait a couple days after putting the sponge in?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

There are no knives that are appropriate for a 33g tank. You've already been told they need a MUCH larger tank along the lines of a 100g.


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## Humpy (Oct 15, 2006)

yes i know this, WHEN THEY ARE FULL GROWN!!
anyways can you please just answer my questions about the cycle and the sponge?!


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## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> How long should i leave the sponge in there before it is good enough to use in the other tank?
> Also is that enough the cycle the tank? Will it be safe to put my fish in there right away or should i wait a couple days after putting the sponge in?


It is enough, but not on its own. You can just put the filter sponge in and expect complete cycling... you'll need to add an ammonia source (piece of shrimp, pure ammonia) otherwise the bacteria will die before it can multiply enough. You'll need to monitor your Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels, and that will let you know when your ammonia spike has passed and it is safe to put your fish in. I'd estimate a week, but I can't know for sure... maybe someone else can be more specific.



> yes i know this, WHEN THEY ARE FULL GROWN!!


Not exactly... they need it before they are full grown. They need it as they are growing. If you put your BGN in a 33gallon tank expecting to move it when it outgrows the tank, well, it won't outgrow the tank. It'll just stunt. You may already be aware of that, but it's just easier to start off right with the proper tank.


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## Whitney (Oct 23, 2006)

*Bio Spira*

Actually- speaking of biospira.....I started a tank with it about a week and a half ago, and I'm now getting low levels of ammonia along with nitrate and nitrite.....is this the way it should be? Should I do a water change or will that screw up my cycle?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Have you added any other fish? A water change will not screw up the cycle but at this point, if the Biospira was kept refrigerated and you used the proper amount, you shouldn't be getting any ammonia or nitrite readings.


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