# May have made a stupid mistake



## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Not really thinking, and still in the habit from water changes, I put a chemical in my newly setup aquarium that removes the Ammonia, Nitrites, and Chloramine from the water.

Did I just ruin the cycle?


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Depends. A true 'remover' such as an ion exchange resin will starve the bacteria. It won't be immediate. And if you have fish, you will keep adding ammonia. But most water conditioners, if you read the fine print, 'detoxify' ammonia and nitrite while leaving them available to the bacteria. That kind of conditioner (Prime, Amquel+, etc.) won't hurt the cycle and may protect the fish from harm during cycling, but could possibly mess up your test results by masking the ammonia and/or nitrite from you test kit.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

I think that may be happening. I've had fish in the aquarium for a couple days and no signs of Ammonia or Nitrite. The Nitrates have gone up just slightly, but it's just a tiny color change on the test strip.

Encountered a new problem though. Never ask someone who doesn't know what they're doing to feed your fish while you're gone. I went away for a few days and asked my brother to feed my fish while I was out. Came back to find half my food container gone and my whole aquarium green due to, what I'm guessing, an algae outbreak from overfeeding. Hope this is fixable and won't screw everything up. We'll see...


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Water change w/gravel washing. Pet sitters always overfeed unless you leave them measured amounts.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

any time that you may be going away for a few days ; just tell everybody to stay away froom your tank....fish can go for quite awhile without eating...


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## Tallonebball (Apr 6, 2009)

Always remember this... 
"It is much easier to kill a fish from overfeeding than it is from underfeeding" - Kyle Russell (me)


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Seachem stability the "biological doh!!!" fixer. If you're worried that you messed up your biological filter just add a capful or two of this stuff as insurance.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm mainly now just worried about clearing up the tank. There's waste all over the gravel and the aquarium is really murky and tinted green. Murky to the point that I don't know if all my fish are still alive because I can't see them. Like I said, I'm guessing it's a microscopic algae bloom since there's none on the actual glass. I put some Algaefix and some Crystal Clear water clarifier in, but it looks exactly the same.

Guess it's just a waiting game now. By the way, does the fact that I now have Nitrates (very low levels), but I don't have Ammonia or Nitrite mean that the cycle has been successful? All the equipment I'm using was previously owned and used on a Mbuna tank like I plan to (purchased off Craigslist). Would that have possibly sped up the cycle process?


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I would do massive water changes as suggested by EMC along with gravel vac. Do it every day until it clears up. If the equipment you bought includes filter media and it was transferred directly from one tank to another without drying out, it may very well speed up your cycle. I'm afraid the "chemicals" you used to treat for ammonia may mess up your test results. When ammonia and nitrite are gone, you are cycled. I don't know how you can tell???


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

I did a 25% water change last night. Planning on doing another today along with using the gravel siphon.

Yeah, the filter I received was a Fluval 304 Canister Filter. Some of the media looked like it had barely been used so I left it in there and replaced the more used ones.

I was just wondering because there are Nitrates in the water. If there are Nitrates, doesn't that mean that the Nitrites are being transferred into less toxic chemicals? Also, is there any possible way to be able to tell my levels after I've already used the Ammonia and Nitrite detoxifier? Maybe a whole lot of water changes that will eventually get the chemicals out of the water?


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

lol, that tank is all over the place. 

With the use of them detoxifiers there is really no way to tell what's going on. 
Massive 25% waterchanges daily that you are doing is must at this point. I would suggest discontinuing the use of these detoxifiers so long as you are doing the 25% daily water changes. If you keep doing the waterchanges you shouldn't have to worry about the fish. 

Keep changing the water every day for atleast a week, or more, basically until you start getting readings that you are sure of. Also I still highly suggest getting a bottle of Seachem Stability and dosing as instructed (as insurance), until you get readings you are sure of.

Presence of n3 is a very good sign that your cycle has started or stabilized, but because of the detoxifiers that you used there is no real way to tell what ammon and n2 are at.

This is not for you inparticular but for anyone new thinking of starting the hobby.
Make sure you have these three things on hand before starting a tank.

1.) API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Yes it's alittle spendy, but it will give you accurate readings and tests for the essential PH, Ammon, n2, n3. + over the long run it will cost you less because it's got enough chem to run hundreds of tests before it runs out.

2.) Seachem Stability or a product similar for jumpstarting the bacterial colony. (I constantly recommend Seachem because it's the only one I have experience with, and it works 100% for me)

3.) A firm understanding of the "cycling" proccess.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah, this seems to happen a lot to me. I've never been able to keep an aquarium without something ridiculous happening. Last time with my 29 gallon my nephew, who I had been letting help feed my fish with close supervision, decided it was time for him to feed my fish without letting me know. He emptied a whole full container of fish food into the aquarium. That was the last time I left my door open.

Now my brother failed to listen to my instructions and just way overfed. I told him to just get a little pinch of a specific food. While on vacation I got a text telling me that he didn't know which food to use so he was using a variety. I figured it was no problem. I hadn't taken into consideration the fact that my "little pinch" and his "little pinch" were 2 very different things. Guess next time I'll either leave them and hope they do okay, or go to the tank and actually show him the food and the amounts.

Anyways, thanks for all the help folks! I'll continue water changes and continue testing to see if anything changes. Hopefully with the Fluval 305 as main and the two Penguin sponge filters running as undergravel filters there should be enough filtration to help the situation a bit.


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

sounds good. Oh I forgot which poster it was but someone suggested a great idea for "I'm not around for a while feeding" it's a small hassle but really simple solution. Take plastic baggies and portion the food amounts for every feeding before hand. That way if you tell em three times a day, all the person has to do is grab a baggy and dump at the specified times.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Even old gravel that has dried up can seed a cycle and speed it up. You will know you are cycled if nitrates keep rising. It doesn't really matter is you see the ammonia/nitrite. An algae bloom can be good if it keeps your fish from being poisoned. But if can reduce oxygen in the water and it won't go away until its food is gone. So keep up with the water changes.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I am glad you mentioned this point.
My first tank 6 years ago, and before I had read the cycling process, did not cuase any deaths at all. I was given a tank by someone who had it in the garage for a couple of years.
I started the tank with neon tetras and a betta.
never lost anything.
Once I got educated about the 'right' way to cycle a tank, I again used an old donated tank and went daily to check levels of ammmonia etc. It had new gravel and new filter - just an old washed out tank.
Got readings for one week only. It reall worried me because it did not take 6 weeks to cycle.
So it is amazing that using an old filter or gravel and there can still be a few bacteria spores hiding away.
I found they cycled faster than buying a new tank and importing gravel or filter media.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

This cycling thing is really a mystery. Sometimes there seems to be no logic. That is why Stability and some of those things are so puzzling to me. My understanding is that the "cycling" bacteria will die within hours without a food source (ammonia). They go dormant under certain conditions but they die without food. That would mean, of course, that two year old dry gravel couldn't possibly help seed an new tank. I just don't know??? I guess all you can do is test your water.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

Do you suppose the season of the year could have something to do with it?

I remember the nitrogen cycle was explained in public school
( too bad we don't know why we learn stuff). This was explained about peas too and about how they 'fix' nitrogen.
it would stand to some reason that as most of these processes take part in the warm weather that nitrogen fixers are being blown about in the hotter weather.
in the winter when there is snow on the ground nothing grows.
Perhaps this explains why some tanks take longer to cycle.
my forst 2 tanks were done in the hot weather.
Winter tanks have taken longer.
this is just a thought that has popped into my head.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

All I know is that there was still about an inch of water in the aquarium when it arrived at my house. The gravel was still in it too, and was moist. The filter still had a little bit of water and most of the media was moist also. I'm guessing that's probably why it has cycled so well so far and I'm already reading Nitrates.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Theres a chance there was nitrate in that water or dried up on the gravel. So don't count the tank cycled until the nitrates go up. Its likely you are already through but be sure before adding more fish.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Hmm. There were no Nitrates for the first few days but there are now. The strip is just barely a pink color. Is it possible it just took a few days for the nitrates already in the tank to fill out and I'm just reading the old ones? I'd like to think it's cycled, but I'd rather be real safe than sorry, especially when I'm planning on buying fish that arn't exactly cheap.

P.S. The fish that are in the aquarium right now for the cycle process are fine. They look rather happy. One of them was in pretty bad shape when I put him in, breathing real hard, sitting in one spot, and not eating, but now he's doing real well too.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I would continue doing those massive water changes. In a few days all the chemicals should be diluted enough to allow you to be able to test properly. It sounds to me like you are cycled or close to it.


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

Nice thing about science is that it continues to get better and better. Seachem is damn tight lipped about thier product Stability and I understand why. Either they have bred/engineered a type of bacteria that lays dormant for a long while, or they discovered a substance that will turn the bacteria dormant. Either way they figuered it out.

I think seasons do have alot to do with how quickly a tank can cycle. Everything has a range of parameters that it can live in. I would suspect tanks that are "cycled naturally" during the snowy winter will take a very darn long time to do it, vs a tank started in spring, summer or fall. I know this cause I rememeber trying to start a bread culture in the dead of winter when I was up in Tahoe. usually in los angeles it would take maybe 1-2 weeks before the yeast would get going. Up in tahoe it took near a month before I saw anything.

The cycling bateria do need an ammonia source of some type, you starve anything it usually dies, or goes dormant.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Alright. I had heard that turning all the lights off and robbing the algae of light will kill it off. After doing that a couple days and continuing water changes, nothing has changed. The water is still incredibly murky and completely green. I would take the fish out and temporarily keep them in my 29 gallon while I do a complete water change, but the problem is the water is so murky I can't find them. The only fish (this sounds horrible) I truly value in the aquarium are my Synodontis right now, but because they hide in the rocks and are normally on the bottom it would be even harder to net them. I also worry that the algae, now fighting for survival because of lack of light, will rob all the oxgen from the water and suffocate my fish. The fish I HAVE seen was right up front and looked kinda lazy. Worried about them.

I'm really starting to get discouraged... Any suggestions?

P.S. My water is still testing fine and Nitrates are still present (in low levels)


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

test phospates? There could be something wrong with the tap water that is feeding the algae. But i would just take the water level down to fish-height (you hear them splashing), then fill it back up. Repeat daily and eventually you should get the food level down enough for the algae to lighten up. Unless you are overfeeding or way overstocked.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

I'll do that. I just hope I don't put them into shock =/. I've been feeding them miniscule amounts since this all started. Enough for each fish to get a little bit. I only have 5 Mbuna in there with 1 small pleco and 2 synodontis right now. I would really hope that's not overstocked seeing as it's 55 gallons.


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

wierd. phosphate test on your tap sounds like a good idea like what's his name said.


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## bmlbytes (Aug 1, 2009)

Why not just start over with the tank? Empty all the water out and put the fish in the 29 gallon for the time being. Wash all the gravel and ornaments and stuff then fill it with clean water. Dechlorinate the water, then use a product like Stability or Bio Spiria and then put the fish in. I can't imagine that all that algae is OK for the fish. I think that the fish will probably do better during cycling than in that water. Just do a water change like every day, and add more Stability or Bio Spiria with the water changes.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

Alright. I've done it. The fish are in the 29 gallon for the time being. I've drained the 55, removed all the decor, and will continue on with the removing of the gravel and the removal of the last remaining water. 

Next problem: My filter is a Fluval 305 Canister and it runs by siphoning through the hoses. How do I remove this thing for cleaning without spewing water ALL over the floor? I also figured out I think that's where the problem was. After talking with the former owner, I found out he had an algae outbreak also. I didn't really clean the filter, I just replaced the really old media. When I started up the filter I think I spewed the algae colony back into the water and the ammonia spike from the overfeeding caused it to bloom. So I'm going to make sure I thoroughly remove ALL traces of everything from the filter before I start it back up this time. Any ideas on how to clean this thing without leaking water everywhere?


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## Toshogu (Apr 24, 2009)

I have a fluval 305 now. Flip the black handle all the way up. then take the grey handle and flip that up. Take the input and output out of the water, find a bucket and flip the black handle down catch the water in aformentioned bucket. take the canister filter to a sink and dismantle and clean there.


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## Superfly724 (Sep 16, 2007)

My filter is under my aquarium in a small cabinet and the hoses are running up the back against the wall of the room. It's all kind of tight fit. That's where my problem is. Do I put the whole filter in the bucket and just hope the water that pours out of the hoses gets in the bucket or what?


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