# Curious:Guppy Males and Being Aggressive



## Sorafish

So, after reading several different posts about how 'aggressive' male guppies are when they're in a tank alone, I'm very curious.
I know that with female beta, you can keep them in the same tank. BUT, only if you have the right ratio (whether this be tank size or number of females, I'm not sure) because they have a 'peck order'. 
Is it possible that this is true for male guppies as well? 
I've had a 'dominant' male protect its chosen(favorite) female from other males in the tank. This seems pretty common.
I have a 20 gallon, with only males. 10 are adults, 15 are 'baby' males. 
While my males DO flirt with each other (tail fanning mainly), they don't seem to have a particular favorite, or gang up on anyone. Is this possibly a 'peck order' avoided by having enough males to distract everyone?
Thoughts?


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## Pandapop

Are all of these males related to each other? My guppy boys that were raised together won't usually bother each other, but when I purchase a few males from the LFS, they're always ganging on the smaller one. 

As for the female betta comment, I've learned that you must have at least 3-4 females in nothing smaller than a 10g (a 10g is actually pushing it). I had 5 females in my 55g some time back, and the largest female would claim her territory of the top right-hand corner of the tank, in the front. She'd chase away the remaining females if they came too close, but never bothered any of the other fish if they did the same. She was obviously the dominant/alpha female. (one of the betta experts on this site might be able to explain the female pecking order better than I can.)

But, female bettas tend to establish their pecking order very quickly... which also leads me to believe that guppies may not be showing the same type of behavior. If they were, it seems awfully strange that it'd take more than a few weeks to determine who the alpha male was. 

Back to the guppies, I've had males 'claim' a female a few times before, too. But that never stopped the other males from chasing each other, and trying to mate... and this wasn't just tail fanning. Extending the gonopodium like they would when courting a female. 

Another thing that makes me think a pecking order isn't involved, is the fact that guppies will literally try to mate with anything that moves. I've had guppies try to mate with tetras, barbs, platies, swordtails, mollies (more commonly other livebearers). I believe it's just their insane determination to reproduce.


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## Sorafish

Its kinda funny that they'll try to reproduce with anything. 
As for whether they're related, not at all. Ten of the males are full adults that I bought under the advertisement of 'blue cobra' *snorts at their yellow markings* and the rest are a mix of juvi. endler hybrids and juvi. assorted males.
Maybe its that with enough males in the tank, they'll just go after everyone, and not pick on one in particular? I haven't had any fin nipping, or deaths, and everyone looks pretty happy in there.
I'm curious because I see so many people warning against keeping tanks of all males.


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## Pandapop

I've seen a lot of people complain about male aggression in guppies too (other than myself), but there are other cases (like yours) that never have this problem... or it happens rarely enough to overlook it. Maybe you're one of those people that are just lucky, and have mild-mannered guppies? 

Sure makes me jealous of you, lol. 

I stopped by the LFS earlier to have a look at their females. They had a few nice ones, but I only came out with three adults. I got two free platy fry, and three little guppy fry that happened to sneak in there. Far from any original lines, they're obviously mutts, but I'm excited to see how the fry will turn out, anyway. I have about 6-8 other guppy fry of mine that are growing quite nicely, and my older three males are pretty.

Where did you happen to get your endler hybrids? Did you breed them yourself? I've been looking everywhere for decently priced Endler's (common or not), and it seems I won't be spending any less than $50 USD (including shipping) for 2 or 3 of the little guys. It's crazy. Last time I owned Endler's was over a year ago, and there were only two... and they died within a week. D:

Anyway, back to the harassing bit. 

I've never had more than 12 males at a time in a 20g, so I'm not sure if having enough of them will balance out (or cancel out) the aggression or not. 

...I bought two or three guppy males labeled under 'blue cobra' too, and two of the three had yellow markings as well... you didn't happen to get them from liveaquaria, did you?


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## Fishpunk

There is a list of breeders/keepers of pure endlers here.

http://endlers-usa.com/viewforum.php?f=13

Maybe you can find somebody in Boston. It's not a good time of year to be shipping fish your part of the world.


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## Sorafish

Endlers- Actually, I got them by accident. LOL. My LFS, The Ocean Floor, sells their feeder fish for 25 cents, and I bought quite a few, thinking they were guppy fry. I was very pleased to find all of these colorful little males in there. I can only assume their hybrids, since they were being sold as feeders.

The blue cobras were from the same store. I'm going to try aquabid for a few breeder males tonight, that's my first attempt at online buying. 

But, a few years back, I bought three males from a petsmart and a bunch of females. I wasn't meaning to breed them or anything, and had them in a 10 gallon with some pretty decor, a filter and a little clip on light and they bred like NUTS.

I then got a 20 gallon long and put all the males in it (about 40 or so, I was young and uncaring) I never saw them attack one another or bully. Never had a single death in all that time either.  Wish guppies were so hardy nowadays.

Maybe it IS just luck. Hopefully more people will come and give stories of success or failure on keeping all male guppies in tanks.


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## Sorafish

OH! I just noticed that you're in az too, fishpunk! Do you know of a good LFS?


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## Fishpunk

Sorafish said:


> OH! I just noticed that you're in az too, fishpunk! Do you know of a good LFS?


Yeah, but they are going out of business right now. We're running out of them. Phoenix Tropical, Aquatouch, Tropical Treasures are about all that's left. I won't go to Fins and Friends because they sell tattooed fish.


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## Pandapop

Oh, I defintely didn't plan on doing any online-ordering this time of the year. It's way too cold for any fish to survive it. I made that mistake last year -- I ordered some guppies and shrimp from liveaquaria, and my delivery was delayed... they arrived frozen and very dead a day after they were due. I wasn't very happy, haha. 80 bucks down the drain... 

I almost considered purchasing from AdrianHD a few times. He always has really nice endler's on aquabid. I just wish they weren't so pricey, for so few.

I'm not so sure what makes an endler-hybrid other than the fact that the males are supposed to be infertile. Is that true? lol, I've no idea. I have a young male that is very small in body, but has a big delta-shaped tail. He has those multiple-colored markins on his body like an endler, but I don't know if that means he's a hybrid or not. If he is, then the other two males I have are too, because they're developing the same coloring on their bodies as well.

I should ask my LFS if they'll order some endler's for me... they used to have them in stock a few years ago. Back then I was more interested in mollies and platies, and thought the endler's were a colorful live-bearing tetra. D; Hah...


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## Fishpunk

Male endler hybrids are not infertile by a long shot. Endler coloration is always metallic, never pastal except maybe white. A pure endler looks like my avatar.


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## Fishpunk

@sorafish Wild guppies look a lot like endlers at first glance. What you bought as a feeder may in fact be 100% wild type guppy. 

I've considered buying up some of those feeders and seeing if I can line breed something interesting out of them, but I don't have enough tank space for that.


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## Sorafish

I looked up some pics of wild guppies just now and you may be right! I had thought that these guys wouldn't grow much bigger...but if their wilds, don't those get bigger than endlers? Also, the pics of wilds that I see, and the ones that I have, look a LOT like what petstores are trying to sell as lyretails. So, what would actually make a lyretail, if that were the case?


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## Sorafish

Fishpunk said:


> Yeah, but they are going out of business right now. We're running out of them. Phoenix Tropical, Aquatouch, Tropical Treasures are about all that's left. I won't go to Fins and Friends because they sell tattooed fish.


I've been going to Ocean Floor for a few years, and its been getting better under different management, but they don't really have much selection guppy wise. 
Wait, Phoenix Tropical is still around!?!!? I went there as a kid, but then they said they were 'moving location' and I haven't been able to find them since!


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## Fishpunk

Phoenix Tropical is off Thomas east of the 51 in a residential area. I was there a couple weeks ago and they had a number of guppies and what looked to be hybrid endlers. Amazon Aquarium on Thunderbird west of the I17 also had a bunch of guppies last week when I was there.


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