# High Court Ends Death Penalty for Youths



## aquariumfishguy

_By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer_

*WASHINGTON -* The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the Constitution forbids the execution of killers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes, ending a practice used in 19 states.

The 5-4 decision throws out the death sentences of about 70 juvenile murderers and bars states from seeking to execute minors for future crimes.

The executions, the court said, were unconstitutionally cruel.

It was the second major defeat at the high court in three years for supporters of the death penalty. Justices in 2002 banned the execution of the mentally retarded, also citing the Constitution's Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishments.

The court had already outlawed executions for those who were 15 and younger when they committed their crimes.

Tuesday's ruling prevents states from making 16- and 17-year-olds eligible for execution. 

Currently, 19 states allow executions for people under age 18: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Utah, Texas and Virginia.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050301/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_death_penalty

*It's about time, maybe we aren't as close to apes as once thought.*


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## Lexus

At any age they are still muderers... but I *am* against death penalty for minors.


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## aquariumfishguy

I am against the death penalty for each and every person. But I feel eliminating the death penalty for minors is one step in the right direction to abolishing the death penalty.


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## guppyart

aquariumfishguy what do you have wrong with the death penalty I am a christain and I don't hate the death penalty my thinking is if you commit a murder and you go through all the programs and go kill someone again they have a problem and cannot be allowed out of jail so you have to kill them


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## Lydia

people that are 16 or 17 are plenty conscious and cognizant enough to know what they are doing and how bad they would be screwing up someone elses life if they killed someone. they know full well that death is final, and if they dish out death and decide to kill people, they shouldnt just be slapped on the wrist and let go again, that would just let them kill more people. I am not against the death policy for minors, to some extent...if it is just a little kid that kills someone, that is different...but someone who is 16 or 17....or even 14 or 15....should know well enough not to kill someone...you mean to tell me that i know how awful it would be to kill someone and how wrong it is, and some 16 or 17 year old person doesnt? give me a break! they should have to suffer the consequence of their actions, too!! take for instance the 17 year old sniper...you mean to tell me he had no clue what he was doing? that he didnt really understand what death is? doing away with the death penalty will just let some young people think that they can get away with killing someone!


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## Lydia

sorry....heh heh....i got a little riled up there


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## Damon

An eye for an eye............................


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## mrmoby

I think there are many situations involving minors where some leiency is proper, things where the youth takes a risk or chance, because of the industructibility / can't happen to me factor, that just comes with age. This would be things like OUI, stealing, or even playing around with a gun. But when someone takes a gun in their hand, and takes a deliberate, and calculated shot at someone, they know what the intended result is, and should be punished accordingly.


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## Guest

guppyart:
1) use periods and end sentences. its much easier to read that way
2) i dont think "just because your christian" has anything to do with the issue.

now for everyone:
i think the death penalty IS the right way to go.an eye for an eye isnt vengeance. it's commiting a crime and getting your punishment. people have to know that if they do something wrong, its going to come back and bite them in the ass. (sorry if i sound a little rude)
i think from 13 and on, people know what they are doing is wrong.
if someone close to you was murdered, would your want the person who killed them to be sitting in a prison with good meals, clean sheets, and cable TV?


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## shev

Scuba Kid @ Wed Mar 02 said:


> guppyart:
> 1) use periods and end sentences. its much easier to read that way
> 2) i dont think "just because your christian" has anything to do with the issue.



you used the wrong "your" it should be you're. "your" implies you own christian, or posess it. "you're" would be you are christian.
I like to play grammar nazi too. I shouldnt be allowed to correct anyones grammar, I'm from montana.


> The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the Constitution forbids the execution of killers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes, ending a practice used in 19 states.


they aren't putting anyone under 18 to death. if they were under 18 when they did the crime, they won't be put to death. an example would be if someone was tried at the age of 21 and convicted for a crime he did as a 17 year old, he can't but put to death, which makes sense. we haven't executed ayone under 18 for quite a while now, along with people with mental disabilities.

I am glad to see this happen. if it were truely an eye for an eye, rapists would be raped for a punishment.


> my thinking is if you commit a murder and you go through all the programs and go kill someone again they have a problem and cannot be allowed out of jail so you have to kill them


then they get life in prison without parole. a much more civilized way of doing things, but prisons get filled fast, and are not always properly funded.

some states dont have the death penaly at all. i think rape used to be the death penalty in Alabama.


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## aquariumfishguy

A.) I do not believe that killing someone is justice, for the murderer, or the grieving families. I find this pretty barbaric, especially when one can watch the person dying. How much time do you think you'd get if you poisoned someone on your own? Or how about electrocuting them? The law doesn't make it any more morally right than if you were to kill someone on your own.

B.) I also find it appalling that most people who believe in the death penalty are usually religious folk. I, too, am Christian - and for the life of me, I haven't found any place in the bible where Jesus/God/Etc talks of "giving permission" to kill another. In fact, I think a commandment goes "Thou shall not kill", or something like that. Correct?

The bottom line (for me and my personal views) is, we all have our judgment day. Granted, we need to detain those who harm the public. Killing them takes it above and beyond what another HUMAN BEING should be allowed to do.

Let's not even get into the real facts here... how many are innocently executed, mentally retarded people being executed, blacks vs. whites executed, men vs. women, etc. etc. etc...

It is really disgusting, if you do the research.


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## aquariumfishguy

shev @ Wed Mar 02 said:


> We haven't executed ayone under 18 for quite a while now, along with people with mental disabilities.


Shev - you know I think you're a smart guy... but that is far from factual. Please research these two items, which go hand in hand (those under 18 and those with mental disabilities). Look up the case _Patterson vs. Atkins_. Look up a young (black) man, by the name of Ryan Matthews. He has an IQ of 71. I got to know him as a person, and became heavily involved in his case... all the way down in Louisiana.


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## Guest

> you used the wrong "your" it should be you're. "your" implies you own christian, or posess it. "you're" would be you are christian.
> I like to play grammar nazi too. I shouldnt be allowed to correct anyones grammar, I'm from montana.



thats what i meant  
lol


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## Mark

Romans 13:1-7 states: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."


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## shev

> Shev - you know I think you're a smart guy... but that is far from factual. Please research these two items, which go hand in hand (those under 18 and those with mental disabilities). Look up the case Patterson vs. Atkins. Look up a young (black) man, by the name of Ryan Matthews. He has an IQ of 71. I got to know him as a person, and became heavily involved in his case... all the way down in Louisiana.


I had no idea. i thought they got rid of that a long time ago. I forget how much state constitutions can differ. I didnt know capital punishment was banned for a while.



> The USA is the leading perpetrator of this violation of international law.
> Since 1990, it has executed 14 child offenders out of a known world total of 26
> in seven countries. Since then, two of these countries, Yemen and Pakistan,
> have abolished this use of the death penalty (although some child offenders
> remain on death row in Pakistan).


^^ article from 2001.

I think the media has forgotten bush's "executing happy antics". heres some more stats i found


> Texas has carried out 227 executions since 1982, when the state resumed capital punishment, six years after the Supreme Court lifted a national ban.
> 
> Of them, 140 have been performed under Bush, who has commuted one death sentence to life imprisonment and granted one 30-day reprieve.


florida wasnt much better on the death penalty. (jeb is bush's brother)

lol, sorry for relating bush into everything.


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## aquariumfishguy

No, it is quite relevant actually. I do not mean to sound intimidating or overbearing, this just happens to be a subject I am passionate about. We all confuse and mix up facts, so no worries. 

Mark - questioning the death penalty and those who operate the system is not the same as rebelling against all authority, so while the biblical reference holds great weight to those who are religious, it means little to those who do follow government regulations, but whom disagree with it.

Indeed, God will be the last one to judge. And yes, the government will also be answering to our God (for those who believe). I guess with this in mind those of us against the death penalty can carry some kind of peace.


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## Mark

Texas had 36,945 murders from 1982-2000.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm


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## Lydia

aquariumfishguy....the death penalty IS practiced in the Bible...2 Kings 15 I think it is...Shallum killed the king and Menahem killed shallum and reigned in his stead...there are also many passages about the avenger of blood, and countless passages about someone killing someone and getting killed for doing it....it is definately a Bible principle


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## Lydia

hey mark, is that the king james Bible or some other version? also an addition to my earlier post, the Bible does definately say an eye for an eye....if you murder someone (intentionally and knowing what you are doing) you should be killed, in my opinion....and if you are going to say that the Bible doesnt say anything about the death penalty, ou should probably read it first....because it has a lot to say in favor of it....obviously not in those exact words, but it definately is for it


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## shev

well... the bible also says if you rape a virgin you can bribe the father. or if you rape a slave, the slave is punished.

the bible was written long ago and doesnt apply (in most cases) to nowadays.


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## Lydia

heh heh i keep on getting riled up.....im sorry....im kinda bugged at someone else and i guess im taking it out on aquariumfishguy.....sorry yall


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## mrmoby

What cracks me up is how Bush saw many people put to death under his watch in Texas ( as his brother now does in Florida), yet is appalled at the notion of conducting stem cell research, which could have tremendous benefits for all of us. And they will fight to the ends of the earth to keep people alive that have no possibility of living without machinery, let alone live any kind of dignified life.


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## guppyart

I am sorry for my bad grammar and puncutation I just hate that stuff.



shev @ Wed 02 Mar said:


> well... the bible also says if you rape a virgin you can bribe the father. or if you rape a slave, the slave is punished.
> 
> the bible was written long ago and doesnt apply (in most cases) to nowadays.


And the Bible does apply to the current times, they where way more advanced than we are today.
They set up a proper government and helped create what we call science today, a lot people credit the greeks for creating science but they just sat around and spoke about philosophy which is great but they just theorized about everything they did not go out and do it.

And shev where in the bible does it say that I would like to do some more research on this subject.


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## shev

> And shev where in the bible does it say that I would like to do some more research on this subject.


well...



> Leviticus 19:20-22 If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD . 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.





> If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
> 
> Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.





> And the Bible does apply to the current times, they where way more advanced than we are today.
> They set up a proper government and helped create what we call science today, a lot people credit the greeks for creating science but they just sat around and spoke about philosophy which is great but they just theorized about everything they did not go out and do it.


 youre right, they did just poke around at things. but it wasnt until the 1600's the scientific method was invented. before it people used to make guesses, could not prove or disprove any thing, and had vague theories. well....it was actually the muslims that first invented the scientific method. but not until bacon had invented it did things start to change with the work of science. the scientific revolution was led by a few people in that time, and religion apposed them. and not just the catholic church, in fact the only thing the protestant and catholic church of the time agreed apon was that science was bad. most churches accepted the geocentric theory, earth is in the middle, and everything revolves around us, with 10 spheres around earth, after the 10th was god and all the souls. planets were not made of any earthly substance, just heavenly orbs of light. but galileo galilei invented the telescope, and found they were made of a real substance. before that the church condemned the heliocentric theory. the church told him to stop publishing his work, and put him under house arrest, where he published more. 

and what governments are you referring to? israel, is where the bible was written some time near 1500 bc. more advanced how?


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## guppyart

shev they are more advanced in several ways
the buildings they built are incredible we cannot even make half of the greek and roman empires built the sculpting that both cultures did is what most people train for years to achieve

And thank you for the information about those passages


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## guppyart

Shev are some passages that talk about killing.

genesis 9:6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.

exodus 21:12 Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.

leviticus 24:17 If anyone takes the life of a human being he must be put to death.

leviticus 24:21 Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a man must be put to death.


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## aquariumfishguy

This is getting silly and pointless. We all "get it" - that is, we know where each other stand. Perhaps it was a mistake on all of our parts to even bring God's name into such a secular portion of the Web. There are parts of the bible where killing is dead wrong (no pun intended!), and other parts where it seemed to be legitimized. Can't we just leave it at that?

Besides, the way the Government is going, we might not know what the word 'God' means too long from now.


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## shev

> This is getting silly and pointless. We all "get it" - that is, we know where each other stand. Perhaps it was a mistake on all of our parts to even bring God's name into such a secular portion of the Web.


he started it...


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## aquariumfishguy

Nobody started anything. Mature, responsible people should take charge of their comments and actions. Repeating bible verses doesn't seem to be getting us very far, thats all.


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## (RC)

shev @ Wed Mar 02 said:


> well... the bible also says if you rape a virgin you can bribe the father. or if you rape a slave, the slave is punished.
> 
> the bible was written long ago and doesnt apply (in most cases) to nowadays.



To me the Bible is a collection of short storys.. Kind of like "The Best Of The Realms" written about the Forgotten realms. Interesting to read, but that's about it. 


RC


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## shev

aquariumfishguy @ Sat Mar 05 said:


> Nobody started anything. Mature, responsible people should take charge of their comments and actions. Repeating bible verses doesn't seem to be getting us very far, thats all.


lol, i was just kidding about who started it. and i agree about quoting bible.




> I meant what I said, and I said what I meant.
> An elephant's faithful, one hundred percent.


 Dr. Seuss, Horton Hears a Who

but quoting dr seuss is always fun.


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## jonah

By coincidence, the same day the Supremes passed this decision down, we had a 14 year old kill another 14 year old here in central Oklahoma. They got into an argument while playing basketball. One of them went in the house, got a shot gun and then shot his "friend" 3 times.

Some people are monsters, it doesn't matter how old they are. He'll be walking the streets in less than ten years, and his buddy will still be dead. No justice for anybody.


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## aquariumfishguy

Justice is all a matter of opinion though, and that's what is key in all of this. 'Who thinks what is best'? If it sounds confusing, and frustrating at the same time, this is because it is.


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