# SBD still!!



## audiman (Oct 1, 2006)

Is this incureable?? Have tried everything i can think of. Tonic salts, no food (for a few days), SBD treatments.

Anything else to try??

Now have 3 fish that are affected

I have taken 2 short vid clips, ignore the TV sound!

http://www.rcmr.co.uk/images/fish/18022007004.mp4

http://www.rcmr.co.uk/images/fish/18022007005.mp4


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## audiman (Oct 1, 2006)

Does no-body want to help on this forum??


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

I have not had much luck with SBD. But, as far as I know, SBD is not contagious unless its caused by a bacterial problem. What "SBD Treatments" did you use?

Could you give more details about the tank? size, water parameters, etc


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## audiman (Oct 1, 2006)

60 litre tank, water ph is 6.8 nitrite and nitrates are well within safe limits.

Treatment used is Interpet SBD treatment #13, not available in the US so i am led to beleive.

http://www.atlantisaquatics.co.uk/acatalog/interpet.html

link to UK site selling the products


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

What are the test results for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate? (always a good idea to test whenever a problem crops up)

What ingredients are in the SBD treatment?


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## audiman (Oct 1, 2006)

NO3 is 10mg/l
NO2 is 0.5mg/l

My test kit doesnt show ammonia

Treatment contains Formaldehyde and Methanol (sounds nice!)
It should cure the SBD, but will leave them with cancer! LMAO


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok... Formaldehyde (Formalin) is used to treat parasites and Methanol is appranantly added to formalin to keep the formalin in a "fish safe" form. Formalin also kills off your bio-filter. Your tank looks like it could be overstocked to me and you do have nitrites present (should be 0) - I would keep a close eye on that especially since you've been treating with formalin. Info on the formalin/methanol from http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/formaldehyde_friend_or_foe.html

I still still think you should try treating for bacterial infection - here is a snippet of info from the fish doc website.. notice some of it is goldfish specific - 



> However, before diagnosing all equilibrium problems as swim-bladder disease, we should be aware that there are other conditions which can cause buoyancy problems. Disease in other organs such as kidneys and intestines for example can also cause problems. This can happen if there is any swelling of the affected organs leading to either a change in organ density or pressure being put on the swim-bladder. This is often a problem with fancy goldfish whose abdominal cavity is tightly packed.
> 
> Treatment is difficult, mainly because it is virtually impossible to diagnose the cause and secondly there are only a few conditions that will respond to treatment. It is always worth considering a course of antibiotic injections in case a bacterial infection is involved. An attempt should be made to see whether the fish is defecating, in case the problem is being caused by an intestinal blockage. If this is suspected it is worth either trying to feed the fish a few frozen peas, which act as a laxative, or else try baths in Epsom salts (70g / litre for 5 minutes) which has the same effect.
> 
> If these treatments do not work, there is little else that can be done. There is some work being carried out on exploratory surgery, but there are very few veterinarians undertaking this "cutting edge" procedure.


 (taken from http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/FAQ.htm#equillibrium)


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## Christine (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok after posting this... I had another thought.

60L (16 gallons) is really too small for that many fancy goldfish. Now I am not a goldfish person and have never really kept them myself but doing a little research turned up this article that recommends 100L for 2 fancy goldfish. 

Im REAAAAAALLLLY stretching it here, but Im wondering.. the goldfish doc mentioned that fancy goldfish often have swim bladder problems because of their tightly packed abdominal cavity .. well I've been told that when fish are stunted from being kept in too small a tank that their insides continue to grow but their outsides don't (I have no clue if this true or just something someone made up). However, IF that last bit is true, I could see since fancy goldfish have this problem already that it could be compounded by being kept in too small of quarters. Now take that with a grain of salt, its purely conjecture on my part but I do think its something to think about it.


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## audiman (Oct 1, 2006)

2 fish per 100L??

Thats a hell of a lot of water each.
I do see your point on the fancy goldfish, i also read that they can suffer due to there internal dimensions.


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