# Your Attention, Please:



## TheOldSalt

There are going to be some changes around here, and while some of you will like them, some of you won't. Such is life. However, these changes are necessary to ensure that FishForums remains a good place for people to talk about fishkeeping and make friends. 
Sadly, we have been having some problems lately which have been tarnishing our little community's image. We have some big plans in the works for making some changes here which will really knock your socks off, but until we fix some problems we would only be wasting our time with these. 

After an investigation, we have discovered that we have two main problems which simply cannot be ignored any longer. It turns out that these are THE PRIMARY reasons our chat is no longer thriving and our auctions no longer draw users.

The first is a matter of attitude and lack of respect. To be more precise, most of our former auction users and many other highly experienced members have left FishForums due to the fact that they kept finding themselves assailed constantly by "snotnosed kids" and other clueless wonders who, despite not having any substantive fishy knowledge of their own, nonetheless saw fit to repeatedly harangue them with a barrage of contradictions, arguments, and other annoyances both in chat and in the forums. I have seen this myself, and while I often thought it funny that some noob was trying to tell a 30-year veteran that he was wrong about something, even funnier still was when the noob invariably was the one who was wrong, but alas, the experienced fishkeepers only got fed up with it and left, leaving us with our current mostly-novice population. Said one guy I really hated to see leave: _"...it's just a bunch of noobs helping noobs now, and anybody with an actual clue trying to help is only asking for trouble..."_

FishForums is not like most other fishboards. This is not some big game of King-of-the-hill where everyone fights for supremacy, and even if it was, it still pays to know who you are tangling with before you start to hurl arguments and insults. We don't currently use a member ratings system here, but one is certainly available to us. We decided against it's use long ago to avoid hurt feelings, but it seems we have plenty of hurt feelings anyway, so we may well be forced to resort to something like that if all the CRAP doesn't come to a screeching halt, and immediately. How stupid would YOU look, with your 2 stars, trying to tell a 5-star member that you know more than he does? Doesn't sound fun, does it? Well, how do you think those 30-year hobbyists feel when told they are stupid by some noob who has been keeping fish for, oh wow, almost a WHOLE YEAR!

We need people of all knowledge areas and skill levels here at FishForums if we are to thrive. Right now we do have that good mix, but the most experienced members aren't posting as much as they would if they could only do so without a lot of hassle. That hassle will now STOP. If you find that someone is giving bad advice, you will no longer flame that person or stomp all over his/her post in an effort to make yourself look like hot stuff. You will remain friendly and tactful, and simply ask for some more information. There s a good chance that thatother person might actually have a bit of knowledge that you lack, and you might actually learn something. On the other hand, it's certainly just as likely that the other person is indeed a ninny and needs to be corrected, since a lot of people like to post stuff just for the sake of posting something without regard for what they're actually saying. In such an instance, simply post your opinion on the matter and explain why you think you are correct. We do have a LOT of beginners here at FishForums and they do need a lot of good, accurate advice, so it is important to make sure that they can get that advice. Always feel free to post whatever you want, as always, as long as it's on-topic for that thread, of course. We want an environment where everyone can be free to share knowledge and ideas without criticism, and by golly, that's what we are going to get. OR ELSE!

Big changes have been in the works for a long time around here, but all of our attempts to lure the required expert hobbyists here have failed time and again due to this stuff, and that's why we haven't gotten much accomplished. There is no more time for talk and hand-wringing on this issue. If you are caught hassling someone, YOU ARE GONE. You are expendable, in the greater scheme of things, and we can no longer allow FishForums to be dragged down on account of this silliness. We hate to have to resort to any unpleasantness, but on the other hand, we are trying to build a great community here, and we need people who are part of the solution instead of the problem.

Don't take this to mean that beginners are unwelcome. Beginners are always welcome, and always welcome to ask whatever questions they need to ask. It's why FishForums is even here, after all, and we certainly enjoy our reputation of being a beginner's board. We want to be a lot more than that, though, like we used to be, and to that end we simply must clamp down on the things which drag us down the most. Feel free to ask away without any fear of being ridiculed by anyone, and please show the same respect to others. Is that really too much to ask? One other thing I want to emphasize is that we are not trying to discourage people from making posts, even bad ones. If you think you know the answer to someone's question, then by all means, please answer it. Don't hesitate because you fear you might get hassled about it. THAT is what we are trying to stop. If you are right, great. If you're wrong, then you'll learn something new soon afterward. Win/Win baby!

Now for the second thing:

Our chatroom used to be a fun and happening place, but nowadays it's a virtual ghost town. The reasons for this, we have learned, are very similar to the things mentioned already. Rudeness is the main thing, but in the chatroom it tends to go to a much greater extreme.

First of all, it must be pointed out for those with no command of the obvious that ours is a chatroom with a focus on FISHKEEPING. It is fine to discuss other things, but should a fishkeeping topic arise, from now on that topic will reign supreme until resolved. What that means is simply this: When somebody asks a fish question in the chatroom, all other discussion will halt until that question is answered or otherwise politely addressed. 
You don't have to talk about only fish in the main room, which is good since you certainly wouldn't anyway, but if a fishy topic arises, let it get covered and move on. We have lost a lot of members due to their inability to actually discuss fish in our fish chatroom, and that can no longer be allowed to continue. We have some really big plans for our chat in the works, complete with celebrites and everything, but if we can't keep to the fishy topics at hand we won't get very far with these projects. 
By the way, this isn't an online dating service, gay or straight, or a place to sell various goods of questionable legality. If you are caught trying to sell dope to a member or sexually harass another in any way, then you are GONE. I'm not talking about a chatboot or a 3 day ban, either, but a permanent ban from FishForums and possibly a visit from the authorities. That's right. We have a lot of minors here at FishForums, and we have a duty to keep them safe.

Ah, the minors....
Ironically, it's those same minors who in fact cause most of the real trouble around here. Since we don't bar minors from using our chat, we naturally attract a whole bunch of them. That's fine and dandy, but you kids listen up to what I'm about to tell you: GROW UP! Quit acting like a bunch of morons as soon as you get behind your keyboards. For some reason many of you think it's perfectly okay to act all crazy online. You use language you'd never use at home, you insult people because you think it's fun, and you constantly room-hop for no good reason, much to the annoyance of others. Stop it. Stop it right now. To tell you the truth, you kids are causing us a LOT of problems in our chatroom, but we would rather not be forced to ban you from the chatroom simply due to your age. Therefore, we will ban you for better reasons instead, on an individual basis, and ban you HARD if you don't shape up and pronto. Highly experienced fishkeepers tend to be a lot older than you kids, and their patience for your shenannigans is very thin. This has cost us a lot of really good members, members who could have helped you with your own problems someday but are no longer here to do so. You beginners need all the help you can get, and your own actions are costing you that help.

This is the part where things get ugly...

Our chatroom was intended to help us grow our site in the direction we wanted it to go, as it was supposed to be a crucial tool used in many of our new features. However, the various abuses that have occurred have instead retarded the growth of FishForums dramatically. This is unacceptable. We regret that it has had to come to this, but if these problems do not come to an end immediately we may well have to do something very drastic. Until then, though, what we will be doing instead is cracking down hard on these offenses and others I failed to mention but which should be obvious enough when they happen. A little bit of silliness is okay, and what good is a community where people don't talk to each other and have fun, eh? However, when things get out of hand, they will be stopped. You will get one warning from a Moderator, and only one. After that, if you continue to cause trouble, you will be oh-so-very banned, and permanently. We can't afford to keep you around when you only bring us down, and from now on, we no longer will. Sorry about that, but we are facing the very survival or demise of FishForums. It's you or us. We choose us. 

Grow up. 
Show some respect for others.
Learn about fish.
Have fun.

If we can put an end to the things which are ruining FishForums for everyone, repair the damage already done and restore FF to it's former glory, then we have some very nice surprises in store for you. Even now I'm lining up celebrity guests to appear in our chat to lead discussions on various topics actually related to fishkeeping, and we're working on the infrastructure we need to get all of our present and planned contests up and running. After that, well, I can't say just yet because it's never been done before and I don't want anybody else to beat us to it, but trust me, it's gonna be a doozy. The entire internet fish community is going to sit up and take notice of THIS one, and you lucky people will be able to be the first to enjoy it. So please, help us out here, and help yourselves, by behaving yourselves for a change.


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## Ice

Can't wait for the celebrity guests you have in store ! I agree with the lack of participants in the nightly chats as of late. I, too have ran into some kid venting out about this and that and everything else and it does get annoying. Here's what I have done in the past : if someone comes in and asked a fish question, I usually will stop and hear him out and see what others have to say )or what I may help out with) to help that individual.

Maybe this is long overdue to clean up this mess and get back to respectability (and #1) . Do what you need to get done.


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## BayleesFishees

Glad to hear you testify TOS. I hope your new ideas have a chance to form.


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## MaryPa

Does that go for us Old timers who still don`t know what we`re doing? Are we still welcome.:lol: I actually love the chat when I first came here but it did get to be a bit different so I just stayed away. Bad chat gets me old nerves shaking.


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## Guest

Its about time it was said. Thank you Old Salt. 

I'm anxious for this huge new surprise though....are you gonna give fish money to all members named "Scuba Kid"? I won't object to this.


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## thebrick

Im a beginner, and have learned a ton on this forum by making my own threads and just reading. Also doing my own research. Every forum once obtains popularity ends up this way. theres nothing you can really do but be a ban nazi. Ive seen a forum that was AMAZING when it was just the original 500 ppl go to poop now that it has reached 3500. It happens. Its like you can have a room of people who all talk and get along, now you have a room with 3500+ people. There are a difference in opinons, there is a difference in age, and maturity. Such is life as you stated. 

Im not taking sides by no means, but some of the old timers are just as rude as i have seen im my short time here. 



That being said i LOVE this forum. It has got me in what i think is the best hobby, its fairly inexpensive to get started and its just awesome. I just turned 20, I work a 9 to 5 job, I have a steady girlfriend who i spend ALOT of time with and this hobby allows that. Also its a hobby that me and the girlfriend both enjoy so it gives us one more thing to do  I wish everyone could get a fish tank and keep fish (granted they do it properly) Its for the young and the old and very addictive. 

So thank you FishForum. ill be here for years to come, through the bad and the good.


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## Bear

^^^


we need more of that


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## AshleytheGreat

You know I was wondering why I've stop comming around here and that was a perfect explination. Im glad its been addressed and I cant wait for the surprise!!!!


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## Fishnewb1

I know was a newb and could be considered one. But what I was wondering is if you could make our rank to a "fishy member" to say a "Senior Member" not just by how many posts you have, but to the knowledge behind your posts. You could make it kind of fun and mabey that would attract people to try to get reconized as "a fish guru" or something like that. 
You could have the moderators be the judges and mabey even some other highly active members.

All of the people that have helped me from day one almost a year ago, have had the upmost respect.

And I was also wondering if there would be any way to change the time of the auctions. To like a saturday or sunday night. I dont know about the rest of you but i have church and i havent been able to be apart of any auction.


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## locojay

One of the things I've liked the most about FF is the fact that I can usually grab my laptop, sit next to my kids on the couch and read without worrying about them reading something crazy that I don't want them to read.

I've been on other forums for other topics that I won't even open if my kids are sitting there because I might have to come up with a quick explanation for some acronym being used to insult someone.

I'd really hate FF to head in that direction. There's plenty of good knowledge to be found here. I've gone thru hours of learning just using the search button.


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## vinimack720

this is a little funny. Was there really some one stupid enough to try and sell drugs on a fish forum? There are so many reasons why that is a bad idea i dont even know where to start.


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## TheOldSalt

You wouldn't _believe_ some of the stuff people try to sell around here. Drugs are nothing compared to some of them. Those days might be coming to an end soon, though, if we can implement some of the bigger changes needed in our signup security. Bye-bye, spam-bots!


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## BV77

gotta look at the lack of management...........don't blame the people for the things that the administrators and mods LET happen, I haven't seen this at other sites and gotta wonder why.....lots of the same people go to many sites...........so save your wrists and get carpol tunnell syndrome yelling at the mods, not the members.


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## Sue Gremlin

BV77 said:


> gotta look at the lack of management...........don't blame the people for the things that the administrators and mods LET happen, I haven't seen this at other sites and gotta wonder why.....lots of the same people go to many sites...........so save your wrists and get carpol tunnell syndrome yelling at the mods, not the members.


Um. What now?


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## BV77

I'm just saying all that could have been nipped in the bud


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## Sue Gremlin

Sorry, are you talking about people spamming the board?


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## BV77

well, yeah, I suppose, but the name calling and rude behavior as well. All it takes is a click to eliminate one if they get out of line......the long letter chewing everyone out was uncalled for.......Admin has email addys of everyone, and stern warnings could have been sent to individuals responsible, then a perm. ban .....or something like that.


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## gemjunkie

I think Ol' Salty made a GREAT point.. I think it only fair that people are told once and those that chose to not listen get axed.... JMHO


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## angelfishamy

I love that you said this I've wanted to tell a few people off for being so mean but I didn't want to turn it around on me as being the mean one.I've noticed people being snaughty and it is mostly younger people and I'm not afraid to admit that.It comes down to maturuity and respect really I can handle alot of frustration before I become mean and I think about what I say and how it sounds to another person.People are here because they share a common interest. So we should all work together to help everyone work towards that common goal...a healthy thriving aquarium and we should be able to make friends and mentors along the way.I hold respect for everyone's opinion and thank them for the time they take to help me.I look foward to the changes.


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## angelfishamy

I love that you said this I've wanted to tell a few people off for being so mean but I didn't want to turn it around on me as being the mean one.I've noticed people being snaughty and it is mostly younger people and I'm not afraid to admit that.It comes down to maturuity and respect really I can handle alot of frustration before I become mean and I think about what I say and how it sounds to another person.People are here because they share a common interest. So we should all work together to help everyone work towards that common goal...a healthy thriving aquarium and we should be able to make friends and mentors along the way.I hold respect for everyone's opinion and thank them for the time they take to help me.I look foward to the changes.


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## TheOldSalt

This was an announcement to everyone, not just for those few who were already causing problems. Are you suggesting that I instead spammed every single member's email with a similar message, or would you have preferred I spent countless hours rounding up the ever-changing addresses, most of them fake anyway, of those who we got complaints about every day? Come to think of it, just how ripe do those buds have to be before they're nipped? You make it sound like even the greenest ones should be nipped, BUD.

Your method would have been fine if it could have worked, but it couldn't have, so there we have it. This way was harsh, yes, but I'm happy to report that it seems to have actually worked to a greater extent than I thought it would, and even happier to say that because of this things should start getting interesting around here soon. My thanks to everyone who has helped bring about these positive changes.


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