# just about had it with plants



## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I have 3 planted tanks that do really well as I have previously written. A 4th tank just does not grow. 3 weeks ago I put in new jungle vals and yesterday they were shredded to bits. They had done well for 3 weeks even to the point of sending out new runners. Even the new plant on the runners are shredded.
So likely suspects are either the BN or the angel fish which is huge and seems to always be looking around at something.
( cichlid I believe). I do not think it is either guppies or platies as they are in the other tanks that grow well. Snails don't do this much damage or at least haven't before. Even the amazon sword that had just sent up a new spike has had the top of the spike ripped off and all the side shoots are nipped off.
Can one angel fish/pleco do this kind of damage ?
As previously mentioned before I have spent a lot of time on this tank as well as buying special grow lights and all I've got is stubby 4 inch high vals with shredded leaves..
Oh the horn wort is growing fine.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Plecos can shred plants when they are hungry. Guppies and platies can nibble on plants, but I don't see it much. Angels generally don't eat plants, but they can and do "aquascape", taking out leaves they don't like and trying to shove others around. 
I'd blame either the pleco or the guppies depending on whether the damage was done in the night or the day. Probably the new growth was especially tasty.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I'd say the damage is done in the night. The 2 guppies in the tank aren't likely to do that much damage- at least in my planted tank that is mainly guppies and platies there has never been that much done.a number of years ago I had some hygro that the platies took a shine to and lost all that in a couple of days but jungle vals are fairly tough plants.
The pleco should not be hungry- he is always well fed with shrinp, algae wafers and cucumbers.
however he does dig under plants. This damage is shredded leaves and just not new growth.
its a mystery- I may have to up the 'game' and try java ferns and some artificial.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

ms:

I responded when you first posted but must not have saved my post.

What type of BN is that you believe is causing the plant damage?

TR


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

gold but I don't know the L number.I inherited him from someone who moved out of country.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

well the plants are doing no better in this particular tank. Still unsure if it is the plec or the angel. never catch anyone doing anything- just damage done. have pretty much eradicated the snails -just the angel,plec, some tetras , 3 cories left. no other plant eaters.
maybe my nitrate levels are too low. I have not checked them. Maybe the hornwort is sucking out the nutrients. Even the swords are not doing anything. my new plantlets are still in miniature.
total puzzle to me.


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## llamas (Jun 29, 2009)

I'd say the pleco as they are vegetarians. I had some anacharis and huge chucks would dissapear overnight. also, I would have shreds of it all over. I thing it is your pleco. also the fact that it is at night makes it more likely to be the pleco as they are nocturnal.

Are you using Seachem flourish? It has been know to "melt" vals.


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## llamas (Jun 29, 2009)

Oooh, do you have driftwood in the tank? Driftwood is infamous, well form my experience, of absorbing everything put in the tank. This may include the ferts. It may not be the driftwood though. Just an idea.
Lastly, any carbon in the filter?


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

mousey said:


> gold but I don't know the L number.I inherited him from someone who moved out of country.


ms: Please excuse me but I did not "pick up" on this post.

The *Gold Nugget* is not causing the problems.



mousey said:


> well the plants are doing no better in this particular tank.
> maybe my nitrate levels are too low. I have not checked them. Maybe the hornwort is sucking out the nutrients.


ms: The low nitrates' concentration is a probable cause if the concentration is less than 5 mg/l.




mousey said:


> Even the swords are not doing anything. my new plantlets are still in miniature.
> total puzzle to me.


ms: Is to me also!

I have forgotten: are you employing fertilization and if so what are you employing?

TR


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

so I check the nitrate level this morning and it is about 5! So I have removed the hornwort to see if it makes any difference.
I use tetra florapride as a fert. I tried flourish a few years ago in another tank and yup it sure does melt vals. Too bad they don't say something about that on the container!
No I don't use charcoal and yes I have a small piece of mopani in the tank.
however the same basic situation occurs in my other tanks and everything is growing well in them- just this one tank.
I would have thought that 5 platies and 3 guppies plus the pec would have created quite enough bio load to keep the nitrate levels up but I did use Stability in this tank when I set it up last year and perhaps it is still causing the nitates to be low.
RON V take note!
Even the java ferns are underdeveloped. They are very short whereas the mother plants elsewhere have 4-6 inch leaves.
I don't want to add too many more fish to this tank as I have the plec and angel as "big" fish in there and it does look a bit crowded.(20gal) ideas now needed to get the nitrate level up.
Thanks


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Hm, overfeed the fish. Feed them 5 times a day.


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

I hear ya mousey. I'm an open book.


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

I called Big Al's and they say that Seachem has a flourish nitrogen product to raise levels so I guess I will go check it out tomorrow. I have to take my betta over anyway to get euthanized- she has dropsy- and will check it out then.
No I cannot kill her myself. Bettas do not do well in clove oil mix- they fight very hard to get away from it and I can't just drop her into ice water.The shark seems to be the fastest way.


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## _Jay (Jul 3, 2009)

Very strange...Flourish Comprehensive is a mixture of micro nutrients, that hydroponic plant growers could not survive without. I even OD flourish every other day in my tanks and have never had a problem with Vals or anything else. 

IMO Tetra Florapride is not nutrient dosing, I'm not sure what it is, but consistent dosing of Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potassium is essential along with micro nutrients.

Sorry for the photo quality, but, this tank is over dosed every other day with flourish and the Vals are fine. 

IMO...another good pleco gone over to the darkside 










Jay


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## mousey (Jan 18, 2005)

it is the flourish excell which melts vals.


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

yep...i am with emc..give em some extra food..
why do i gotta agree with emc..i need to find something to pick on her about..this is killing my reputation...lol
removing the hornwort should make some kind of difference as it is a major nitrate absorber...


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

ms: I started this response on July 3rd but could not complete it then.

Hopefully better late than never.




mousey said:


> I use tetra florapride as a fert.


ms: I Googled for an hour for a comprehensive listing of FloraPride constituents without joy.

I found several sites with partial constituents' listing but the constituents posted on each site varied.

Based upon my search results I believe that you are "spinning your wheels" in this tank (for some reason which I do not have a "handle on" yet) with FloraPride.

As best as I can tell the concentration of magnesium (Mg), which is a macronutrient, is either zero or at such a level that Mg is not effective for fertilization.

In addition, but based upon the poor publication of constituents by Tetra, several micronutrients are absent from FloraPride.

My analysis is somewhat confirmed *in this thread in Tom Barr's site (please refer to post #2)*.

Although these folks are real gurus please ignore Carissa's comment relevant to phosphates (PO4).




mousey said:


> I tried flourish a few years ago in another tank and yup it sure does melt vals. Too bad they don't say something about that on the container!


ms: I believe that you mean Excel as Flourish does not produce this effect.




mousey said:


> I called Big Al's and they say that Seachem has a flourish nitrogen product to raise levels so I guess I will go check it out tomorrow.


ms: IMHO getting into liquid fertilizers is a waste of $ and also the dosage of the base constituents cannot be controlled, ie. would not do that one.

As you have the time and your husband enjoys "tinkering (I believe from one of your posts many moons ago)" you might consider *dry fertilizers*.

The "keys to the kingdom" in dry fertilizers is *Rex Grigg's Site.*

Dosing dry fertilizers is not nearly as complicated as you may perceive.

If you wish to consider this option please post and we can "get into it".

TR


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