# New Orleans in Chaos, worse not better



## Osiris

Wow, i just cannot believe how worse it's getting, New Orleans is falling apart, am keeping this non-political, i read this how heartbreaking would it be too see starving babies there, that is where line is drawn and shows US isn't doing enough, i correct that they are just not fast enough.

Is this event in any comparison to 9/11?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/


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## shev

you know they cut funding to the levies in 2003ish. peopel said they would break. now just the other day i heard "no one thought the levies would break".


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## fish_doc

Yea its bad but today the people were shooting guns at the helicopters and boats trying to help them. So they left them on their own. Also the supply helicopters trying to get food to the superdome could not even land because people were rushing them. They ended up throwing food out the door. Even though things are bad the people there in the problem area are not helping out themselves or others by their actions. People stealing guns. Why? Food OK I understand that. ESP if no one is even trying to run a store. Their insurance will pay them back for them anyway. But guns they dont have anything they need to protect anymore. 
There have even been reports or people being raped in the superdome. Now with 20,000 people in this building, there was no one there to see and help stop it from happening?


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## mlefev

I think a lot of those kinds of reports from inside the superdome need to be taken with a grain of salt. The lawlessness and unruly crowds are true, but I've heard accounts of people being raped, murdered, dying in droves, etc. I'm sure there is truth to some of the rumors, but people also have a very good sense of imagination. They'd probably say anything if they thought it would get them out of there quicker.


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## shev

http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart
http://media.putfile.com/tdy_quintanilla_looting_050831
cops can loot with the best of them.


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## mlefev

Amusing...sad, but amusing. Oh well I guess the cops like freebies too, geesh.


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## TheOldSalt

Fats Domino is okay. A random photo shows him getting off a rescue boat. YAY!

LOTS of shots have been fired.


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## fishfreaks

why or what babybaby? People are angry that they were left behind.


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## garfieldnfish

Do you guys think this is funny? We will all pay the price for the narrow minded people of New Orleans (and others). I am not talking of the people left behind to suffer the consequenses. I am talking about the people that have ignored the warnings of scientists and engineers for decades. Rather then to reinforce the levies (as Holland did, they have 3 successive dams, if one breaks, the other two will hold off the water until the people are safe) they elected to just ignore the warnings. I would venture to say they did exactly that because the upgrading of an outdated system would have cost too much and could not be supported by taxing the State of Louisiana, without hurting the rich or the profit margin. Once all the facts are out in the open, I believe we have a national crisis on our hands not just along the lines of black and white (obvious because most of the people affected the worst were black) but also along the lines of the haves and have nots. (gas and heat prices will see to that and not just in the southern states). Time to level the playing field and make college education available only to the kids that are smart and not to the kids whose parents can pay for it. Within one generation the playing field would be leveled and this country will have a future, otherwise it will perish just like Babylon, Rome, Greece and, well Atlantis. All great empires (Atlantis a mystery) that got too greedy. There are more poor people then rich people. The richer a country gets, the poor get more unsatisfied and the poor will eventually take it over by riots, civil wars or just killing off the rich. The empire will then vanish as in the past and not hardly show up in writings. I believe the time is ripe for this and the Los Angelos Riots were a small prelude of what is about to happen. 
BTW I am German and watched this from inside and outside the US for years and it was only a matter of time. I believe it is about to happen. God help us all (if there is one but that is another story). Because if there is a God, he is a sick bastard to let this happen to his "chosen" ones. I believe he favors microorganisms over us because they will survive the next few years. We may survive a few more years, even hundreds (a few of us if we don't learn or a few thousands if we learn and rebound) but the microoganisms will be there until the end of Earth's time. Maybe dolphins will rule the next set up, who knows? They are smart enough and can resist floods and the shut down of the conveyor belt and can restart a smart population.
I just wish people would stop being a parasite on Earth and learn to appreciate it without plundering it and North America as well as Europe are doing exactly that. 
Birth control would be a good start since there are too many people on this planet. (The more people, the more fights there are over resources, hence the stupid argument over abortion or birth control are counter productive, who believes it's wrong won't do it anyway and the rest will pay the consequences if there is a God, which, well is anyones hope but no one can prove it and I would personally like to meet him because I have a few issues to discuss with him, like my sister in law dying from brain cancer, several of my cats dying long before their life was up and, well, others.)
I have travelled many countrys and seen a lot of different ways of life. Most Americans go on vacation within the US borders. This limited exposure causes a lack of understanding of other cultures and how they may react. Hence the horrific "victory" of the Iraq war. If Bush would have listened to some other nations we would not be in the state we are in now and could cope with New Orleans a lot better. The military and it resourses (my husband being retired military) were great even after the draw downs of the Clinton Administration. Now they they are overseas and not much help here. Great that we can rebuild a nation (Iraq) that we destroyed in the first place and are left short on rebuilding New Orleans. We attacked a nation that was under a dictactor much inclined to embellinsh the American way (Bin Laden called him a nonbeliever and they would never have been partners in their quest). If we would have paid Sadam enough we could have gotten exclusive rights to his oil a much better option in my eyes. He was a capitalist after all. Now it may very well be left in the hands by Islam radicals, where women suffer under the regime worse then they could ever under Sadam. We went in there because Bush wanted to remove the only blemish on his father's record (since he did not finish him off in the first place when he attacked Kuwait and the whole world was behind him. An attack obvious for financial reasons, like I said a captialist of American proportions) and we all will suffer for it (I live in the states) I could go on for days but would it do any good?

I know there will be many people screaming at me. But please get over the initial reaction and sit back and read this a second time and think. May I not have a few valid points? If you think I do (or don't) please let me know. I would love to discuss this further even if someone can point out a different site or forum to put this under, because I believe this discussion is essential for American survivial.


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## garfieldnfish

All I can say Baby Baby read my comments again. Sit back and reflect. I do not put down people that believe in God. They may have a lot easier life because they have something to cling to and believe in life after death and all that goes with it but I don't trust all my life to him because he may not actually exist (Something Republicans would love to remove from the school forum, trying to inject an alternative, since the God believing people are their major base of electorates). If you believe, odds are you are already in a better state of mind then the rest of us that do not. But do not kill in the name of God or Allah or whatever you may call it, because if there is no such thing you are just doing that "KILLING". Which is exacly what the Islamic fundamentalists are doing and you would do the same if the shoe were on the other foot. I do not believe in either. I believe we are a result of evolution and in the scope of millions of years, a very short chapter of this earth. But I do believe in nature and letting nature live. I cry when I loose a cat or rat or fish, I love those creatures and they do not believe in God but they have the same right to this planet we have.


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## garfieldnfish

My email is [email protected]. I would love to discuss this further anywhere and with anyone. If I could get an understanding of how the people that believe in God got there I might feel better too. But I would like to warn you, it will take a lot of facts to convince me otherwise. All the evidence is in my favor and the bible is just a "bunch of written words" to me so don't quote them. If the book of Stephen King ("It") would have survived what would we make of this and how would our religion be today? The bible is a history book that lists a lot of events to include hurricanes (or tsunamis in that region) normally occuring plaques of lotuses and other events that people of that time could not explain. Just like there were Sun Gods and Fire Gods before people knew what they where. The more we know, the less of a need for a God because those things can be explained. Death can not. Noone of us has been there, hence the need for a God, and that is the only remaining frontier. I wish I could believe and see something after death but unfortunately that escapes me, maybe being reborn has better prospects, at least there are signs that we have come back again under hypnosis but I would have to witness that myself to believe. My mother "died" when she was 78 while under medication from surgery. She does not remember much about that time but she does remember a field of flowers and not wanting to leave. She said something told her to go back and she was fighting it. She does not remember me or my sister being in the hosital for 2 weeks watching over her but she says that field of flowers she still remembers and it has been six years since. She is also no longer afraid of dying and my mother was not a church going person.


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## shev

Wheres your scientific proof about that? 

personally I'd like to see a thread about religion. this a very very touchy subject. probably one that many see as taboo.


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## TheOldSalt

Hey, garfield, try the Neutral Zone section at www.trekbbs.com . They probably already have a thread or six very much in keeping with the subjects you seem to want to discuss. They'll eat you for breakfast, of course, but you'll have your say, and find many who agree with you. Just don't be careless enough to post your email address on that site; very bad things happen over there to those so foolhardy.


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## Osiris

Anyway back to the show, looks like may get worse if any of you have been keeping tabs on the weather channel, their tracking three tropical storms moving west.


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## fishfreaks

Yeah I heard that too MP. They did say the first one though (i forget the name) is just going to do a 180 and go the other way


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## mlefev

Oh no. That would be about the end of all hope for rescuing people if that area gets hit again. Hopefully they'll all swirve out of the way or dissipate.


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## fish_doc

I am getting tired of hearing people say not enough was done fast enough then comparing it to 9-11. 

I think they forget 9-11 was in a 2 block area and they were still looking for survivors 3 and 4 days into the cleanup. These were office buildings. Almost everyone that survived had homes they could go home to that night with food and water.

This was a entire city with all nearby emergency crews working on their own cities trying to clean up and maintain order. There were no homes for anyone in this city to go to and all food and water was under swampwater. Any help had to be assembled and come from miles away.

The whole thing is comparing a neon tetra to a Shark.


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## mlefev

I know fish_doc. When something disatrous happens that they have no control over, they try their hardest to make it someone's fault. You can't stop a hurricane, and you have no idea of how much damage it will or won't cause. There's nothing else to do than to survey the damage, then react. They couldn't bring supplies and workers closer, because they had no idea how far the damage would extend. It wouldn't help anyone to have all the rescue workers trapped and killed in the storm too.


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## Osiris

Your absolotely right, and whole city was expecting this hurricane like it did. As i believe original forcasts after it was on florida they knew it would strengthen back up but only forcasted it being cat. 2 or 3, nowhere did they say cat. 5, alot of people ride out cat. 2 and 3, but would u rather be stuck in traffic geting out of the city when the flood waters hit or safe haven in a dome or building when u knew chances were slim to get out of city in time?


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## fish_doc

A sad news story about pets. 

NEW ORLEANS - The howls and yelps and barks that pierce the eerie silence of the New Orleans night torture James Lalande as he stirs in his bed. 

The abandoned pets are the reason Lalande can't sleep, and the reason he won't leave his city.
New Orleans residents abandoned thousands of pets in their hasty retreat, leaving many to fend for themselves in the ghostly streets, with others locked in houses and apartments or tied up in yards, according to local animal specialists.

All over the city, animals face a horrible fate. The locked-up pets are starving. In the famed New Orleans aquarium, more than a third of the 4,000 fish have died because there's no power to pump oxygen into the tanks. In the zoo, a skeleton staff of 12 is struggling to feed and get water to 1,400 hungry and thirsty animals with limited emergency provisions.

"It's just overwhelming," said Laura Maloney, the executive director of the Louisiana Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. "There are countless thousands of abandoned pets in the city. And hundreds and hundreds are stuck inside their homes."

Maloney said she'd been flooded with calls from residents who left pets in their homes. Many people were forced to abandon their pets because they weren't allowed to take them on the evacuation buses.

For the past few days, about 10 volunteers have been going to addresses where people have left animals and are breaking in to save them, Maloney said.

"Mostly, they get in by breaking windows or getting on a second-floor balcony," she said.

Not everyone in New Orleans left pets behind. Lalande, like many city residents, refuses to evacuate without his dog, Charlie, and his cats, Miranda and Babettes.

"I've never cried in my life, but the saddest thing in the world is when all night long you hear dogs crying; big dogs, little dogs, medium dogs," said Lalande, 62. "People left thinking they'd be gone two or three days, but now they can't come back and their pets are starving. Tomorrow, I'm breaking in and feeding dogs."

Penny Khoza and her daughter, Rhonda Hanus, clung to a bare-bones existence at Khoza's apartment complex uptown because they wouldn't leave their pets behind.

"He's a joy to me," Hanus said, running her fingers over the head of her 6-week-old mutt, Jack. "He's like a child I could never have. I was a woman not able to have children. We have enough here right now to tide us over."

"Enough" is a few bottles of water, some packed snacks and canned food, and no running water or electricity.

Stray pets have formed packs and are roaming the abandoned city, scavenging for whatever food they can get.

Deidre Rick, 24, took in one of them. Rick, a bartender at Johnny White's Sports Bar, found a pit bull at her bar doorstep on Bourbon Street after the hurricane. She named the dog Katrina.

"Somebody abandoned him, so I decided to take him in, but I don't want to leave him now," she said. "We've got a bunch of dog food that we got from looters."

Ron Forman, the chief executive officer of Audubon Nature Institute, said his animal attractions were in bad shape, especially the city's aquarium, where they've lost more than 500 fish and two otters. Two other endangered mammals, California sea otters, are struggling to live.



"They're big furry animals with big eyes," said Forman, whose 18-hour workday Saturday was interrupted for three hours when he got stuck in an elevator at the Hyatt hotel as emergency generators lost power. "We're going to evacuate them in helicopters." 

The zoo fared better. Although the Jaguar Jungle attraction looks like a scene out of the film "Jurassic Park," with fallen palms, eucalyptus and willow trees blocking the path, the animals mostly survived and are secure. One of the huge alligators is missing, however, and some birds from the aviary died. 

But the Siamang monkeys, Francis and Crown, still hoot at a visitor, and Jean the elephant makes a special trip out of her cave for leaves from fallen oak branches. 

Dan Maloney, the zoo's curator and husband of Laura Maloney, said the zoo revamped its contingency plan for hurricane preparation in the early 1990s under the advice of Miami's Metrozoo, which sustained major damage after Hurricane Andrew in 1992. Maloney's new plan secured generators to keep food refrigerated for the animals, for example. 

Maloney said that although the zoo animals were traumatized by the hurricane, they'd recovered quickly, faster than the humans would. But he said that without the dedication of his exhausted staff, they wouldn't survive for long. "Unlike the people," Maloney said, "the animals don't have a choice to leave, so we stay with them."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050904/ts_krwashbureau/_wea_katrina_animals_1


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## S.CALI

Had the tv on CNN all day very sad very sad.

Please visit this link. 
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/photos/


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## shev

Well we sure werent prepared for 9-11.

after 9-11 and the lack of preparedness the Office of Homeland security was made that would be responsible for preperation and being prepared in the event of a natural (hurricane) or manmade (9-11) disaster on our soil. Obviously bush couldnt have prevented the hurricane, or stopped it. I was kiding about him causing it through global warming, not signing the kyoto protocol and making the clear skies initiative. but really, where did the billions and billions of dollars go? I thought we learned from 9/11, but apparently were just as incompetent. office of homeland security or FEMA failed. there wasnt an immediate emergency response. this is our governments reponsibitlity. the levees funding was cut last year, people were warned they would break. and now im hearing "no one thought the levees would break". it is not the cities responsibility to fund them, its the federal government's responsibility.

oh and Baby_Baby, someone did warn terrorists may attack using hijacked airplanes.


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## BettaMommy

Yeah, what is happening is pretty sad and heartbreaking. What I want to know is why weren't they prepared? I mean if you weren't going to evacuate then you could have at least been prepared and have all of the necessities to survive a hurricane. They were warned about the hurricane/storm before it actually happened. I have been watching the news and I can't believe that they would pull the race card, that is ridiculous. In the begining it was bad...and as the days go by it is getting better.I do have to say it is taking longer then maybe some have expected, but it isn't because of race,at least I dont feel it is, I feel it is taking longer because this is a whole state and part of mississippi we are trying to take care of, it isn't like 9/11.


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## BettaMommy

Sometimes people just dont take the hints and the precautions, and then all of America has to deal with the consequences.


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## Osiris

OO that was sad about that pets FishDOc, i can't imagine seeing a completely dieing reef would be a horrible site.


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## shev

bettamommy, sure some people could pack up there cars and leave, or buy a plane ticket out, or have other means of leaving. but the lower class that relies on public transportation to move their family around couldnt leave that easily. also many _couldnt_ leave. and there is no way you can just start walking. the majority of the lower class happened to be black, and that goes hand in hand with bush's tax cut theory, but I really doubt it was an intentional jab at poor people.

so for the people that didnt have their own private means of getting out the plan was:
"Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00 "The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating"
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...flpc21109012015


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## fish_doc

Update on the aquarium

Members of the American Zoo and Aquarium Association (AZA) are responding to their New Orleans colleagues' need for help following the devastating impact of Hurricane Katrina this week. 


The 211-accedited-member association today announced plans -- including a national fundraising initiative -- to help the Audubon Nature Institute, which includes the Audubon Zoo, the Aquarium of the Americas, and the Audubon Center for Research of Endangered Species (ACRES). The facilities and their staff, like all New Orleaneans, are struggling in the aftermath of the disaster. 



"The Audubon Nature Institute staff in New Orleans are not only colleagues, but they are also our friends, and we all share a passion for the animals in our care," said Bill Foster, DMV, president of the AZA board of directors and director of the Birmingham Zoo. "The AZA community is committed to helping our colleagues in New Orleans as they move beyond this tragedy and begin to rebuild their homes, their lives and the wonderful facilities of the Audubon Nature Institute."



Dr. Foster asked Kevin Bell, President and CEO of Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago, to spearhead the AZA member fund drive to help provide immediate and long-term relief to the staff and their families, the animals and the facilities in New Orleans. Bell said that in response to the overwhelming zoo and aquarium community interest in aiding the Audubon Nature Institute, a program is now in place enabling AZA members as well as the general public to donate.



To make a donation, people can visit the Lincoln Park Zoo web site at http://www.lpzoo.org and click on hurricane relief, or mail a check, made out to The Lincoln Park Zoological Society, and send it to: Lincoln Park Zoo, P.O. Box 14903, Chicago IL 60614, Attention: Hurricane Katrina Relief.



All donations will be channeled directly to aid the zoo and aquarium and their staff members in New Orleans. The Executive Committee of the AZA Board of Directors will handle the distribution of these funds.



In addition to the fund drive, AZA is coordinating relief efforts that will provide animal food, veterinary medicine, fuel and other supplies directly to the facilities in New Orleans. "Getting help to our colleagues is problematic at this time due to emergency restrictions," noted Foster. "However we are preparing our plan and will be ready with immediate assistance when supply routes are open."



AZA is providing frequent updates on the zoo and aquarium situation in New Orleans at http://www.aza.org/Newsroom/hurricaneupdate/ 



Founded in 1924, the American Zoo and Aquarium Association (AZA), envisions a world where all people respect, value and conserve animals and nature. AZA currently has 211 accredited members in the U.S. and Canada, Bermuda and Hong Kong. 



The oldest zoo in the country, Lincoln Park Zoo began in 1868 with the gift of a pair of swans. Today, 3 million visitors each year come to the zoo to watch, listen to, delight in and learn from more than 1,000 mammals, reptiles and birds. Lincoln Park Zoo is committed to wildlife preservation, education and community service.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usnw/20050902/pl_usnw/aza_accredited_zoos_and_aquariums_rally_to_aid_new_orleans_zoo_and_aquarium_colleagues__animals_after_hurricane_disaster325_xml


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## garfieldnfish

And they want to rebuild New Orleans? What fools are running this country? The next hurricane striking this section could hit next month. Taking land under sea level is bound to be reclaimed by the river that owned it once. It is only a matter of time.


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## shev

Damn french for building the city there in the first place.


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## Lydia

hey baby_baby: what was that word supposed to be? Just put spaces between the letters please


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## fish_doc

> And they want to rebuild New Orleans? What fools are running this country?


LOL It has nothing to do with those running the country. Have you not watched any news? The people there are living in their attics because the rest of the house in under water and they still dont want to leave. If the government said they could not rebuilt there our taxes would have to buy every bit of land there from them and then land in a new location for them to move onto. It still would be very very costly. In addition we would still have to drain the city and do a total tear down of the entire city then blow the levies again. 

They did somthing similar to a city farther north on the mississippi years ago. The city was only 900 people and it cost the US taxpayers big bucks.


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## Lydia

oh ok I get it...LOL...I guess he has a filter on h o r e....it's spelled wh ore though.....whatever


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## Osiris

I keep thinking about it and seeing photo's, how can they possibly rebuild it? everything is ruined, think about it. Everything underwater, powerlines, cablelines, tanks, wells, everythings been contaiminted, including oil lines, gas lines, gas underground tanks, long road that's for sure, i voted to bury the city with dirt and build a new one  but that' sme.


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## BettaMommy

They are probably just going to wait for all the water to dissappear, clean up all the debris, and "attempt" to rebuild/build new buildings. We'll just have to wait and see if this plan actually does work.


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## lwstinkinsweet

I dont think that any politicians, local state or national did enough in advance to evacuate the cities that were hit. but that cant be changed now. I was told in my history class the other day "when politicians make decisions they do it on the best of their knowledge. they don't know what is going to happen they only know what has happened." like during the spanish american war america made cuba a free nation that we didnt control, but we didnt know that castro was going to take over. i dont think that this is an apocolypse or God not caring about us or anything like that. i believe heavily on God. Like babybaby said, i have had many things bad happen that i have only gotten over through having faith and God in my life. I am not saying that everyone should be the same religion as me but i went through an eating disorder, a huge phobia that almost ruined my life. my aunt and uncle have lost so many children yet they keep trying to have more and going on because they believe God will take care of them. It says this in my favorite movie "Awalk to remember" "without suffering there would be no compassion" we are the ones who cause the diseases and horrible things that happen in the world by not living the way He wants us to. It is our own sins that bring on trial and tribulation. i am not saying someone dying is because they are sinners but the sins of men have created the tragedy of men. no one is perfect and the sins of the world cause the bad things. also the devil tries to do bad things to cause people to doubt God. that is why bad things happen. he is trying to get us to stop having faith. you may ask, why does God allow this to happen? if He is all powerful, then why doesnt he just stop the devil. Well it is to see if we are loyal and to make sure we are really commited in a relationship with him. to make sure our faith is strong enough. just like he tested job to see that he was a true follower. he is allowing us to be tested. to make sure we are faithful. that is what i believe anyway and i am sure there are many things that have been talked about between the first page of this forum and now but these are the things that really got me going and so i commented on them.


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