# Stuff on gravel



## Kindredfyre (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm at my wits end! I have a 20gal with a whitish, creamish color gravel because I have a black and white Raphael (easier to see on lighter gravel), 1 pleco, now I'm down to one angel. I lost my other two angels for some reason. I'm thinking it's related to this stuff growing on the gravel and bubble wand and plastic plants. My levels are perfect in the water and everything is great for what I have. The temps are a constant 72 degrees as well. The light is only on for exactally 8 hrs. a day controled by an automatic timer. 
The three fish that are still in there are doing just fine and acting normal and show no signs of any distress. All are active at their respectful times and eat at every meal time (once a day). 
This stuff is a light brown and only growing on the gravel, plants and bubble wand. Anyone know how to get rid of this stuff? The pleco I can see him skimming the gravel picking at it but I don't think he's doing much good. Any ideas please?


----------



## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Levels are perfect? That could mean anything really..can you post them?

The stuff you have are dead diatoms building up..wouldn't kill anything much..anything new in the past few weeks?


----------



## Gourami Swami (Jul 4, 2006)

Okay, First off, angels need a minimum of 29 gallons each, plecos get gigantic, meaning they can get a , and Raphaels get to about 8 inches, so for starters that tank is terribly overstocked, or will soon become.

Second, the brown stuff is just diatoms, its natural, Its not hurting anything.

third, If you havent completed a nitrogen cycle, thats whats been killing your fish.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> now I'm down to one angel. I lost my other two angels for some reason


To reiterate what Gourami Swami said, you cannot put angels in a 20gallon. A 30 gallon is said to be the minimum for one angelfish, but angelfish belong in groups, anyway.

Also, the pleco is probably too big for your tank. Is it a common pleco, a rubberlip, or bristlenose? The latter two grow to about 3-5" inches and you could get away with keeping one in your 20 gal, but I wouldn't recommend it. They create a LOT of waste.

The raphael is too big, also. Anyway, all those fish are creating a lot of waste for a 20gallon tank to deal with. My suggestion to you is to return your fish to the LFS and properly cycle your tank. Then, research the fish you want to buy to ensure that they can comfortably fit in a 20gallon.
OR upgrade to a larger tank. For example, you could keep your current fish in a 50gallon (except the pleco, if it's a common pleco) and add some more angelfish and a school of tetras or something.

In the 20gallon you're a little more limited, naturally, but you could go with a dwarf gourami instead of an angelfish, oto cats instead of the raphael and pleco, and a school of tetras, rasboras or dwarf rainbows.

Good luck


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2006)

Has no-one pointed out that 72oF is to cold for angelfish. They like it to be about 80oF so thats probs why you lost to. Mine hate anything below 78oF. 
They stop eating ect, I would suggest you turn up the heat!


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2006)

i noticed that too betta, 72 degrees is way too cold for tropical fish. you need a heater and you need to slowly bring the temp up to about 80. Dont just say your water levels are perfect, tell us exactly what they are, that is alot more help. Get your water tested and tell us the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels please. The diatoms are natural, and just require a bit more cleaning to keep the tank looking nice. But as already stated those fish arent right for that tank, sounds like someone gave you bad advice...and im sorry about that but it happens alot it seems. if i were you i would take the fish back, yell at the lfs who sold them to me, and start with something different.  Let us know what you do.


----------



## flamingo (Nov 5, 2005)

Betta5 said:


> Has no-one pointed out that 72oF is to cold for angelfish. They like it to be about 80oF so thats probs why you lost to. Mine hate anything below 78oF.
> They stop eating ect, I would suggest you turn up the heat!


Could possibly be why he was having troubles, but doesn't neccassarily mean that's why he lost them. A few degrees off won't mean death unless in the long run. I've kept angels in temps around 70 degrees for months before, they didn't seem effected at all.


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2006)

Why did you keep angels at 70 when they like 80???


----------



## Kindredfyre (Jul 31, 2006)

Well, thanks for the help guys. But I'd like to give you more info. The brown stuff has actually been taken care of. I put my remaining angel in my hubby's tank with his three and they are fine. His temp is also kept between 72-75 as well and he's had this three angels for three years now. 
The stuff was taken care of by taking out all my fish and placing them in my plain hospital tank downstairs. I took my hubbys mature full grown 10in pleco and let him clean it up which he did fairly well. Then I took some of his shrimp and they seemed to have cleaned the rest and everything is back to normal. 
The only fish in there now is my pleco who is only 2 1/2 in. long and my raphael who is about 4in long. I got both this year as babies. 
As far as the water levels go, I test with test strips instead of using tubes and chemicals like I know some do. I have everything written down at home on my care sheets I have for every critter I own. I'll post it when I get home tonight after work. 
Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> His temp is also kept between 72-75 as well and he's had this three angels for three years now.


Angels will live in 72F, but they are much happier in 79-80F. Like a person: you could live in 60F, but you'd be a lot happier in 75F, right?  I do suggest you bump up the heat, if only to the high 70's. You'll have bigger, healthier, more vibrant angels.

Glad to hear you got your tanks cleaned up. I love cleaning crews!


----------



## Kindredfyre (Jul 31, 2006)

I've also decided to upgrade to a larger tank as well in the near future. Maybe for Christmas I'll have enough money to get what I want because I love big fish that are odd looking. I want to have my tank as a catfish tank only and plan to get a couple lace catfish I saw the other day on the net and maybe a couple upside down catfish. But we'll have to see.


----------



## Damon (Jan 18, 2005)

Just a side note. You can keep angels in a 20 gallon, assuming its a 20 high. 3 juvie angels or 2 full grown angels work nicely in there. Its the reason they make 20 high tanks and 30 high and 30 xtra high.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

> Just a side note. You can keep angels in a 20 gallon, assuming its a 20 high. 3 juvie angels or 2 full grown angels work nicely in there. Its the reason they make 20 high tanks and 30 high and 30 xtra high.


I do bed to differ :lol:. A healthy, fullgrown, properly-fed angelfish is several (4+) inches wide and tall, plus the fins, and they do like to swim. The dimensions of a 20H are about 24 x 12 x 17... 'nuff said. Of course, you can keep juveniles in a 20gallon tank, but I wouldn't even keep an adult pair in a 30gallon.

The angelfish rule of thumb (or fin?) is 20gallons "free space" plus 10gallons for each angelfish. So, one angel = ~30gallons, a pair = ~40gallons.

Could you put a pair in a 20gallon tall? Yes. Should you? NO.


----------



## Lydia (Feb 6, 2005)

As a matter of fact you CAN keep an angelfish in a 20 High, and there isn't any reason not to. A pair can be kept in a 20 high. Damon is correct.


----------



## Zoe (Feb 26, 2006)

I never said that one couldn't, just that one shouldn't. But then, I'm from the "bigger is better" school of thought. The reason NOT to keep a pair in a 20gallon tank is that a pair of adult angelfish is a lot of fish, a 20gallon tank is small. I don't believe in bare minimum, when it comes to fish


----------



## Guest (Oct 30, 2006)

we could fight all day long about what you can and cannot do. everyone has different feelings on everything, if we all thought the same way...why would we be in forums? Personally i wouldnt keep a pair of angels in a 20, but thats me, i know many top breeders that use 20's for angels and discus. i personally like 29 gallons for a pair of fish myself. now that the topic of 20 gallon tanks and angels is beaten to death......nuff said


----------



## jasno999 (Oct 16, 2006)

If he wants to keep 2 angles in a 20 high he can do it. It has been done before and with sucess.


----------

