# Added powerhead to tank - instant death!?



## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

Ugh I'm not happy about this one, and am appealing to anyone who might have some insight:

I bought a Hydor Koralia 1 (400 gph) for my 46G tank, to both improve circulation and improve the efficiency of my existing canister filter.

Within 20 minutes of installing it, I noticed lots of excitement from my tetras, but totally listless behavior from my honey gourami's. The remainder of my fish seemed to be unaffected. One of the honey's in particular seemed to be in AWFUL shape, totally out of the blue. Prior to installing this powerhead, I had not had a death or even a sick-looking fish in months. One of my honey gourami's was dead within a few hours.

Here's what I'm thinking - when I installed the powerhead, I stressed the fish out a bit, probably more than when I do my weekly water changes. However this still doesn't explain the sudden downfall of the honey gourami's. *My only thought is that the powerhead stirred up significant amounts of *stuff* and ammonia from the bottom of my tank, and drastically changed my water's chemistry within mere minutes. 
*
Since I have turned off the powerhead (it was only on for 20-30 minute), things seem to have gotten somewhat back to normal. I have hopes that the surviving honey gourami's will recover and that the rest of my fish will continue to remain unaffected.

Any help on this topic is MUCH appreciated, because besides my one theory (in bold above), I am totally lost on what happened and how I could negatively affect the health of my tank so quickly.

Not even sure if I ever should use the powerhead again....at the very least I won't until I do a significant (40%) water change.

I don't want to lose any more fish - HELP!


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

IMO if the power head "stirred up significant amounts of stuff" then other fish would be affected as well, so i would rule that out. i would say that it is unusual for something like this to happen, so i dont know what to say. The use of a power head, especially one that in reality isnt pushing a ton of water around, should not cause fish to die...
All fish that i have had adjust rather quickly to an increase in flow, all the way from anbantids to zebras . i would personally try looking for another cause


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

oh i'm definitely looking for another cause but with nearly no health problems the last few months, it's hard not to look at the easiest explanation for causation. on the plus side, the issue seems to be only affecting my honey gouramis, and i still have hope that the 30 or so minutes the powerhead was on didn't do that much damage.

for those with experience with powerheads in tropical tanks - what should do about turning it back on? i loved the brief period of extra movement in the water - the tetras looked great, my moss/plants were all swaying beautifully...and i really think my tank as a whole could use more circulation.


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## Blue Cray (Oct 19, 2007)

Have you tried putting air stones at one end? It helps on smaller tanks alot to get the flow going.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

i'm not even sure how i would do that - the output opening is larger than a quarter...and really doesn't have anywhere where i could wedge an airstone.

i may try blocking some of the input with some filter floss, to slow the flow and let the fish acclimate better.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Did you smell sulfur? The only thing I've heard about stirring things up is that if you disturb an "anaerobic pocket" you can release toxic hydogen sulfide gas.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh finally something that at least in my mind, might explain the extremely sudden and serious health issues. what on earth is a anaerobic pocket and how does it form? would it have somehow been hidden in one of the corners of my tank and my fish were just avoiding it?

i'm away from the tank now but will take a sniff within a few hours.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

if it was caused by anaerobic pockets built up in the substrate, all your fish would have been negatively effected. Your tank also seems to be pretty well planted, which usually helps get rid of the chance of these pockets forming. IMO this would not be the source of the problem if only one type of fish was effected.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok while my honey gourami's have not gotten any better or worse, I've come up with a better way to verbalize what is happening to them - they look like they're paralyzed. Perfect coloration and fins, they just barely move. When they do move, it's mostly because of a small current or desire to be in a slightly different position...they flale to move, and then go back to being motionless and totally still...although in a normal position. All motion is generation from their tails - not their 'arm' fins like is normal.


if there is a piece of the puzzle i've left out - it may be this: on thursday I got four new fish - panda corys. from all indications they are perfectly healthy, had been at my LFS for about a month and are from a LFS i would trust my life with. the corys behavior has been unchanged since my 30 minutes of powerhead-use, and to repeat an important fact - my honey gourami's were acting FANTASTIC before the addition of my powerhead (lots of swimming, socialization, pecking at java moss etc...same as always).


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

lohachata said:


> hmmmmm..there is a missing equation here.something not mentioned.


agreed

"if there is a piece of the puzzle i've left out - it may be this: on thursday I got four new fish - panda corys. from all indications they are perfectly healthy, had been at my LFS for about a month and are from a LFS i would trust my life with. the corys behavior has been unchanged since my 30 minutes of powerhead-use, and to repeat an important fact - my honey gourami's were acting FANTASTIC before the addition of my powerhead (lots of swimming, socialization, pecking at java moss etc...same as always)."

DING DING DING. we have an answer. OK, so while a fish may look fine, that doesn't mean they are. The introduction of new fish always introduces new potential problems. The power head stressed the fish out some (obviously) and a fish under stress is WAY more likely to pick something up that it normally would be able to fight off just fine. THAT makes way more sense than the power head killing them. 

IMO the introduction of the new fish + stress = sick fish


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

all of that equation = sad face for me!

what would be the best way for me to proceed?

(i took the powerhead out entirely, in the off-chance some/all of this was caused by a chemical residue left from manufactoring)


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I think you would have noticed the rotten egg scent. Could be something else. Did you do a large water change at the same time?


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

i did not do a water change when i installed the powerhead. i did one a day or two prior to getting the new fish. 

emc7 - smelled it less than an hour after your post here about sulfur, and the tank smelled quite healthy - like a nice pond.

lohachata - glad someones on this side of the fence - because that is still my primary thinking.


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

wr:

I have not entered this dialog previously but as you have now published all known parameters which may have affected the sudden death syndrome which you experienced but I will "chime in" only with takes on previously presented items (ie. I cannot think of anything else):


[1] Although discarded early in the thread the turbulence in the tank may have indeed really "stressed out" the fish. Although you did not publish the model of your cannister filter if it is circulating 10X/Hour then the power head which you induced will yield currents in the tank sufficient to produce a turnover of 20X/Hour.
[a] It is my understanding that this magnitude of current is employed in the SW world, is near the upper limit for even a hillstream loach river tank and is, IMHO, "a bunch" for a typical community tank.

* I am not familiar with gouramis but I am familiar with the genus of the other fish in your tank and, IMHO, they, especially the Cory's and BN Pleco, are not happy campers with the turbulence/velocities in your tank.*

*


[2] Not discarded was the concept of the release of anaerobic gases due to the turbulence produced by the induction of the power head.
[a] IMHO this is a probable cause and could be due to not only the release of gases which are produced by anaerobic digestion but by the introduction of pathogenic bacteria which are lethal or toxic to fish.

 I am familiar with "something like this" as all my fish were healthy one night and the next morning I awoke to find several dead or dying Yoyo's, all the Gold Nuggets and Queen Pleco's were dying and the Sterbai Cory's were exhibiting symptoms of severe stress. WC's did not help and the mid-depth fish began exhibiting symptoms of severe stress. "Just on a chance" I placed a ton of activated carbon in my filtration process and TG I had joy. The tally was unfortunately all of my GN's, all but one of my QA's, all but two of my Yoyo's and one of my Sterbai.




[3] You briefly mentioned the release of toxic/lethal substances from the power head. IMHO this scenario is probable also. The QA/QC of these devices are obviously not to NASA's standards.

TR*


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

wow thanks for all that insight jones57742, much appreciated.

i don't have that much to add at this time, but i would like you to know my filtration: Magnum 350 canister. a few days prior to this incident, i put 70% new activated carbon in it so i'm hoping that speeds up my tank's recovery.

as for my fish, they seem to be about the same. all non-honey gouramis appear unaffected, but one honey gourami is near-death while another looks better and i put his chance of recovery at 50/50.

still confused on when/if/how i can utilize this powerhead in my tank to improve circulation, temperature consistency, oxygen levels, filter efficiency etc. i purchased it because the circulation and water movement in my tank was visibly insufficient.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

maybe its time to put the powerhead in storage and put it into a much larger tank down the road.:-(


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

If you want to increase the circulation you can add an airstone bubble wand. It would not have to be big, but in my experience the wands create some circulation as well as the bubbles themselves. I would put the wand at the opposite end of the tank from the filter. I have done this in my 10 gallon with a very small wand and it works great. In a 46 gallon I would put it along the back wall rather than along the side wall. This will create more movement over a larger portion of your tank. The current it will create is also something that the Gourami 's can just avoid. In my 20 gallon my Gourami does not avoid the airstone, but it is a single stone not a wand. he never goes right into the bubbles but he does go around it. 

Just an idea  There are probably several solutions.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

Update: the honey gouramis seem to be literally rotting. their fins are becoming white and frayed, and are falling apart...especially their pectoral fins. for my two cents, this is a sign of something other than stress. 

luckily the rest of my tank is 100% perfect...at least for now.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sounds like disease, maybe fin-rot. He didn't say stress was the only cause. He said stress + new fish which carry new disease = stressed, diseased fish.


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2007)

As said before: When a stressor is added to a tank (such as the powerhead) it can bring out underlying health issues. I believe that if nothing else the powerhead played this type of role in the situation. 

Gourami's do need more still waters so as long as you plan on keeping them I would not go with a powerhead of that nature. There may be a small gentle one you could use. Or you could go with the bubble wand.

If you have a QT tank I would put the Gourami's in there with a light salt solution to help their fins.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

have any of you had experience with the koralias? they are a high flow, low pressure power head. The opening in which the water comes out is about the size of a quarter, or larger, so it is not just a jet of 400 gallons per hour, they spread that flow out big time. they are one of the better power heads for increasing flow with out blowing your fish all over the tank. Make a small opening with your mouth, and blow on your hand hard, you feel the stream quite a bit, open up wider and blow, chances are you are blowing out MUCH more air..and you cant feel the stream like you did before...same concept here.

Increasing the flow of a tank does not, and will not explain why a fishes fins are not rotting away...which brings me back to my equation, new fish + stress = problem

If the fins are rotting away i would hit the tank with something a little stronger and more effective than melafix personally. Go to your local store and see what they have on the shelf for fin rot. Grab up the antibiotics, do some water changes, add some salt.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I don't think that the powerhead has anything to do with the gourami situation. I have a Koralia Nano that I bought for the benefit of my Vampire Shrimp. It sends a fairly gentle current out to a fairly wide area, as Mike suggests. I have some fish that don't particularly like it, and they simply don't swim near it.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

> what on earth is a anaerobic pocket


I don't think we actually answered this question yet. When material (dead plants, fish poop, etc.) decays there are different ways it can happen. Stuff in the air or aerated water is eaten by aerobic bacteria that produce ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, like in your filter. Anaerobic (without air) bacteria digest stuff that is buried. Some of the byproducts are toxic. 

If you have an area of substrate with no water flowing through it and with dead stuff in it, you can have a pocket of anaerobic activity which can release toxins when disturbed. While I've never observed this myself, its common practice to regularly stir think layers of substrate (like sand) in the hopes of stopping this from occurring.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

another update: one honey gourami has 'rotted' away to almost nothing but torso. no pectoral fins, minimal tailfin. amazingly, he still seems to have some interest in food. the other seems to be far less affected and may make it. all the other fish - seem normal but are being very carefully watched.

powerhead - out of my tank indefinitely!!!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2008)

welchrock said:


> powerhead - out of my tank indefinitely!!!




Even though this is not the source of the problem? interesting


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

If the powerhead is stressful for the gouramis, then its a problem, even if its not "the problem". Let him solve the sick fish issue before he goes back to tweaking the big tank.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

Monday morning update: the 'better' of the two honey gourami's seems to be stabilized or maybe even improving. the other i caught a glimpse of briefly when my light was off, and he disappeared when it clicked on. still alive at least!

have been treating the tank with Tetracycline-soaked (Gel-Tek) flake food. i've had good luck with the Gel-Tek products and thus far it's having the desired effect - all the fish seem to be especially interested in the treated food and i think the (still cause unknown) fin-rot progression has stopped.

thanks again to everyone who has helped me with this strange issue. if and when i put the powerhead back in, it will be under extremely well-monitored conditions, and after a bottom-cleaning water change.

annnnnd not to open up another pandora's box with this thread, but i have a few questions about fin-rot for those with experience with it: would it totally eat away the pectoral fins of 2 fish within 2 days? although i've never had a major battle with it, i always thought it effected the tailfin. my poor fish look like they had their 'arms' entirely cut off.


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

I've seen slow fin-rot (steady erosion over a week) and heard of fin-rot (from TOS) as fast as you described, so it does exist. And there have been recent posts about it, so at least one fast strain is out there in LFSs.

The other possibility is what happened to my demasoni, the other fish chewed off the fins. In this case, the only fish I would suspect would be the snakeskin gourami. Gouramis can be aggressive toward other gouramis even while being peaceful toward everything else. But from your earlier post, it seemed the fin kept going, even after you separated the affected fish.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

in this case it's definitely just fin-rot, and not fin-nipping. my snakeskin is the shyest fish in my tank, and in the multiple hours i spent watching the tank over the weekend, didn't make a move at the honey's once. if anything i think their fins are too diseased to be appealing for snacking.

on the plus side though, my two honey gourami's are still alive and the healthier one seems to be improving.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

monday evening update: both troubled honey gouramis have stabilized and might pull through! the one stays in hiding most of the day, but comes out at tetracycline-soaked feeding times (super-small amounts, twice per day). the one that's in better shape has even begun using his dorsal stumps in an attempt to go back to his usual activities - poking at my wood and moss.

moving on though, what are everyones thoughts on trying the powerhead again? if i were to put it back in, i'd have it facing a corner, the back of it taped off with electrical tape covering 70% of the intake, and would be sure to add it only when my tank's stress-level was near-perfect. any ideas?

(thanks again everyone)


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## jones57742 (Sep 8, 2007)

welchrock said:


> ... any ideas?


Ascertain the location of the nearest municipal solid waste receptacle to the powerhead ...

TR


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Is the tank only 36" long? I use power heads of that flow, but in 55 gallon 48" cichlid tanks.

I don't think tape is a long-term solution to an underwater problem. I would expect the tape to get sucked in or the pump to get loud if you mod it. But if you mean as a temp. test, then it might be a way to find how much flow you need. If it's too strong, post it for trade for a smaller one or use some sort of spray bar (long pipe with many small holes) on the output.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2008)

koralias are a different animal. You can cover most everywhere that water comes in from, and the pump will function perfectly. and again, 400gph from an outlet the size of a quarter or larger is much different than that out of a normal powerhead. Yes, its the same volume, no its not the same pressure.

There is nothing wrong with the powerhead, if you dont want it, send it to me


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

emc7 said:


> Is the tank only 36" long? I use power heads of that flow, but in 55 gallon 48" cichlid tanks.


yes my tank is only 36 inches long.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

GoodMike said:


> There is nothing wrong with the powerhead, if you dont want it, send it to me


hey if you have a Koralia nano - please PM me and i'd gladly trade!


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

update: the better of the two honey gourami's is still doing quite well. the other one had a good run of 3-4 days where his activities and movement increased, but today he's looking like a goner. 

still torn about what (if anything) to do with this koralia powerhead.


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

final update: all three of my honey gourami's have died. the last one going this past thursday. still clueless on what exactly caused the deaths - but i'm definitely not putting the powerhead back in EVER. 

common sense tells me that it wasn't just stress that caused their behavioral change and near-instant fin rot. it had to be something stirred up from the bottom that afflicted them the worst because they are the most delicate members of my tank.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2008)

would you like my shipping address?


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## lohachata (Jan 27, 2006)

geez mike..you could at least have the decency to pay the man for it.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2008)

ill pay shipping! i got some decency!


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## welchrock (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey GoodMike - I got it on eBay for a touch under $29. It's yours for $25 via PayPal. If you're interested, PM me.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2008)

Thank you for the offer of 25, unfortunately that is more expensive than i purchase a new koralia 1 for, i am sure someone else on this forum will be interested though, and i will stand by my statements that these power heads are fantastic pieces of equipement, and i would have no reservations to putting them in several of the tanks i have around the house with 10,000 dollars of fish in them


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