# new 20g question



## zschaeff9 (Feb 15, 2009)

hi, im new to the forum and just have a few quick questions. i just set up a 20g tank, i havnt put any fish in to cycle it (which i do actually understand, thats not the issue) but i did an initial water test after adding a water treatment and the ph was 6.5 the gh was 120 ppm and the kh was 0 ppm from my understanding the ph and gh are ok but the kh is really low. how can i fix this problem without messing up the other things. also a have a stocking question. over time i want to have:

brilliant rasboras
neon tetras
german rams

my question is how many of each i should get and if these are ok together, or if there is anything else i could or should add. i know the rams should be kept in a pair which is my last question, i want to get a blue and a orange ram, they are the same species just different color variations but im not sure if they will pair together or not. 

thank you very much for your time and any responses will be much appriciated.


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

1 pair of rams, 6-8 rasboras, 6-8 neon tetras. That sounds like a full-up tank to me. Weekly water changes'll do it just fine, and your water sounds great for neons and rams.


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

I like your fish choices. I would do 10-12 rasboras to start, 10-12 neons, and the rams. A few of the neons will probably die off unless you are lucky and find particularly strong ones. There are a lot of weak strains out there.

I really don't know what the differences in rams are based on coloration. I would think that is probably a subspecies.


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## zschaeff9 (Feb 15, 2009)

ok sounds great, do you guys know anything about how to raise the kh tho?


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## COM (Mar 15, 2008)

No need to mess with kh, gh, etc. unless you are dealing with very specific and difficult species. I don't even bother to measure these things.


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## squirtbubbles (Feb 18, 2009)

Please don't change your water weekly especially with you having a new tank set up.
I wouldn't change it atleast for 4 weeks like I did because ur tank needs to go through that new tank cycle.
If your not gonna have fish in it atleast through in a lil bit of fish flakes daily to help with the cycle.
Weekly water changes are for those who have lots of water problems.
But like I said, with a new tank it needs time to create that good bacteria and if you change the water weekly it will take even longer for that good bacteria to create.


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## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

squirtbubbles said:


> Please don't change your water weekly especially with you having a new tank set up.
> I wouldn't change it atleast for 4 weeks like I did because ur tank needs to go through that new tank cycle.
> If your not gonna have fish in it atleast through in a lil bit of fish flakes daily to help with the cycle.
> Weekly water changes are for those who have lots of water problems.
> But like I said, with a new tank it needs time to create that good bacteria and if you change the water weekly it will take even longer for that good bacteria to create.


Water changes should be done at least once a month, but depends on your Nitrate levels. If you have a large stock you will need to do more water changes. If you have delicate fish that require it (like Discus, I do daily 25-30%) you will need more frequent water changes. With my Rams I would not go more than a week as to make certain not to have water problems. To make the statement that weekly water changes are for those that have water problems, that is not true. I always test weekly for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and sometimes PH and that is what dictates my water changes.


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## squirtbubbles (Feb 18, 2009)

I agree but this person has a new 20 gallon.
So 1st of all its a small tank, I also have a 20 gallon, it shouldn't need water changes more than once every 4 weeks.
2nd it doesn't even have fish yet and needs to 1st create that good bacteria.
And also the fish that zschaeff9 don't seem to require that frequent of water changes.
But like I said I do agree with you in frequent water changes due to the larger aquariums and fish that require special needs due to being delicate.


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## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

squirtbubbles said:


> I agree but this person has a new 20 gallon.
> So 1st of all its a small tank, I also have a 20 gallon, it shouldn't need water changes more than once every 4 weeks.
> 2nd it doesn't even have fish yet and needs to 1st create that good bacteria.
> And also the fish that zschaeff9 don't seem to require that frequent of water changes.
> But like I said I do agree with you in frequent water changes due to the larger aquariums and fish that require special needs due to being delicate.


Size of the tank makes no difference. If any of the test show to be high a water change is needed no matter what size the tank is. At some point the Nitrates will be high and a water change needed. This is not dependent on tank size, but does depend on water quality, over feeding or not, quantity of fish for size of fish and so on. There is no magical number of days or weeks where a water change is needed. To put a quantitative time limit on a tank size is not a good practice. I understand it's a new tank and the cycle will happen when it does.


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## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

> Weekly water changes are for those who have lots of water problems.


This was the statement you made that I felt was wrong.


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## zschaeff9 (Feb 15, 2009)

ok so you guys would suggest not messing with it unless i begin to have problems. ill change the water probably twice a month or something like that, does anyone know the deal with the rams though, if they will pair if they are different color variations. they are both german rams.


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## Againsthecurent (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm not sure. I'm in the same boat as you having bought a couple a few weeks ago. I looked up on a few sites to see photos of male and female and think I have that. We will see what happens.

Check this site for a photo of each: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile3.html


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## trashion (Aug 24, 2007)

Also, neons and german blue rams are VERY sensitive fish that would definitely benefit from a small weekly water change, imo.


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## judya (Jan 23, 2005)

Sounds like a nice tank - but make sure it is WELL cycled before getting the rams and neons. The brilliant rasboras are less sensitive to bad water conditions.
Don't worry about the kh/gh - I've never, ever tested mine and I've kept many tanks of fish for many years. More important is keeping the water conditions stable - only changing a portion of water at a time, whatever time frame you use, keeping the newly added water the same temp, and when introducing the newly bought fisn, adding tank water to the bag over a 12 to 24 hour period so they get gradually acclimated to the new conditions. 
This tank would be nice if planted with live plants. If the rams do pair off, they will appreciate some caves or caverns of rockwork or ceramic toys, as well as some flat stones so they have a choice of breeding sites.


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## Merf (Feb 24, 2009)

COM said:


> I like your fish choices. I would do 10-12 rasboras to start, 10-12 neons, and the rams. A few of the neons will probably die off unless you are lucky and find particularly strong ones. There are a lot of weak strains out there.


In my opinion, I think that might be too many mid-high level fish for a 20 gallon. I'd either get 10-12 of ONE species, or just get 5-6 of each. You could put a school of smaller cories once your tank is well established. They're great bottom dwellers that keep every part of your tank active =).


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Hello to all,

In regards to the water change advice being given, are you speaking in 
terms of the cycling or to maintain the tank?.

There seems to be two different recommendations, possibly confusing
the member.

WFF

1. leave the kh alone for the time being, most fish will adapt.

2. 6-10 Rasboras, 10-13 Tetras-expect a couple or three not to make it 
& the pair of Rams.

I would consider your tank stocked at this point.

I would introduce each in the order listed, allow a couple of weeks between each
to allow the tank to adjust to the bio load.


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## WildForFish (Aug 5, 2008)

Admin please delete.

WFF


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## zschaeff9 (Feb 15, 2009)

if i had like 6 of each school and the rams could i have something on the bottom to eat the fallen foods and stuff and keep it active down there? i know it would be a while down the road though


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## emc7 (Jul 23, 2005)

Except for Bolivian Rams, all rams are one species. German Blue rams are a line bred in Germany to favor the blue coloring, Gold Rams lack the black spot that blue and wild-type rams have. I haven't seen an orange ram, but I'm guessing its just another color variety.

As for low kH, I don't know why you think thats a problem. Rams and neons are notorious for prefering "soft" water and failing to thrive in water with high kH. The main danger with low kH is that pH is not very well "fixed" and can drift lower over time. Again, not a problem for those fish. But if you do a large water change with water with a drastically different pH or kH, you can shock the fish. Small, regular water changes are the best way to get rid of waste while keeping water parameters stable.

Cories are often kept with Rams and neons. They also like soft, acid water. Consider pygmy ones as you are pushing tank's limits. Know that the more heavily you stock the tank, the more frequent your water changes should be.


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## StripesAndFins (Dec 31, 2008)

get either a small school of cories or a pleco. I would suggest either clown or bristlenosed plecos

Hope this helps


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