# Betta trouble



## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Up until this morning my betta has been fine. I noticed however that today it has been hanging at the bottom of the tank, slightly on it's side. He's gotten progressively worse. Before he would swim vertically, now, when he does decide to move, he darts around the tank. Here is a very crappy cellphone picture because my wife has my camera and she's out of town.








What I can see is at the base of his tail on the side pictured above he is missing his scales. Completely gone. I can see his pink skin. On the other side he seems to be fine, only a slight beginning of the same thing. I suspected he hurt himself in the plastic plants so I removed all of them from the tank.
So ... :?: What the heck am I looking at? What's wrong with him? Body rot?
The tank has been completely untouched. It is a 5 and half gallon tank with a Tetra Whisper biofilter. I did a partial [1 gallon] water change 5 days ago and that's about it. I don't get it, what could it be and where did it show up from?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Just as with the crab tank, you should be doing daily water changes because the tank is uncycled. Add Pimafix and Melafix to prevent infections in his wound.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Someone in the fishforums chat said I should do a salt dip?
Is it body rot? How the heck did it come about?
I've had the tank set-up for 20 days, my readings are actually zero across the board. No ammonia, nitrItates and nitrAtes I think are starting to show just a bit. Water changes. How much of it in this 5 and half gallon?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I wouldn't, a salt dip isn't going to do anything. I have no idea if its body rot or what, I can't see it. I'd do at least 50% water change daily until the body clears up. Pristine water can clear up a lot of things. But I'd definitely use Melafix and Pimafix, too.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

It seems you're the only one willing to help with my troubles 
I thank you!
I just so happen to have Pimafix on hand, I will dose as indicated.
I am doing the water change now.
Poor little guy!
So daily water changes from here on out then? 50% daily?
After this goes away, how often should I really be doing water changes? I hear different stories. A week, two, 50%, less than 50%. Ugh!


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Naw, I'm just the one that's on right now.  Yeah, I'd do daily water changes at least until his wound heals up. For small tanks, I do and recommend twice a week changes of 50%. They dirty up pretty fast. I mean would you want to swim in your own toilet for long?


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

So 5 gals is still considered small and requires a 50% change weekly? Don't get me wrong, I'm not lazy by any means, it's just that I didn't know that.
The instructions on the Pimafix bottle say a different story though.
I quote


> Continue treatment for 7 days. After 7 days, do a 25% water change


Does this not apply to my aquarium because it's so small? Daily changes for me then? What about the filter? Pimafix says I should remove the carbon filter if possible. I did that and I actually left the pump running, hoping that it will still filter the water with the remaining filter.

The betta seems to be a bit better. He's not as freaked out anymore but I can tell he's in pain, poor thing. He's showing the typical vertical bars as if he's pissed/distressed. He's swimming now and not darting, but he tends to swim vertical. Probably due to the pain he's trying not to use his tail. If he eats, should I feed him? Maybe lightly? I usually feed him twice a day 4-5 pellets each serving and he eats every single one of them.
I feel bad for him.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Anything under 20g is generally considered a small tank. If you are sure you have zero ammonia and nitrites, you can follow the directions on the bottle. Make sure you pick up Melafix though and use them together. If you have any ammonia or nitrites, daily water changes right before the next dose of medication is due. 

There's no hard and fast rule about regular water changes. Some people do more, some do less. I try to keep my fish in optimal condition, which for me means regular water changes. In my larger tanks, I do weekly water changes of 50%. In my smaller tanks, I do twice a week water changes of 50% at least, and occasionally on my pico tanks (3 gallons and less), I do a complete water change and good substrate rinsing.

Yes, continue to feed him as long as he's eating. He'll need fuel for his body to heal.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Since I removed plastic decor and such, I might have affected the chemical ballance, therefore I will monitor the situation. So far ammonia are zero, nitrites as well, nitrates if I remember correctly are 2.5 or something.
I'll go to PetCo tomorrow and pick up some Melafix. Do you think I should maybe take the little guy with me and ask for advice? I don't wanna stress him though. Maybe I should just stick with the current plan.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Nope, I wouldn't take him. The clerks at Petco know less than you do usually.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Should I also be raising the temperature perhaps? I've kinda been debating buying a 25 or 50w aquarium heater, temp is usually 70F, sometimes 71 or 68. I have a Tetra in my brackish, 50w, works for 2 to 15 gallons and it has a thermostat, keeping the water at 78*F. Should I go for one, or is 70-71 ok?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Bettas prefer their water warmer, so I would.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

I emptied half of the tank because the poor guy is struggling very hard to move and it would take a great deal of effort to surface for air. Right now he's sitting in about 3-4 inches of water [which means about 2 gallons] and as a result I had to turn the pump off. Is the pump important? Should I not move him in a half gallon bowl that I have? All day yesterday and half of today until I added the Melafix he's lost more scales, the disease has spread up on his body a bit more than before. I added Melafix and Pimafix, when should I see improvement and how do I know he's getting better? Anyone have a clue what it is? Is it body rot? Basically he's losing scales and that's it. You can see his white exposed skin. No bleeding, no inflamation.

What I fear most right now is that I'm not using the right stuff to treat this.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

No, the pump isn't important for bettas. No, don't move him. It sounds like he's got some sort of rampant disease. You might want to get some Maracyn I and II or some other type of antibiotic and start treating him with that.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

So Primafix and Melafix are insufficient? I really hate to keep going to the store and experiment with medication. On bettatalk I read that maracyn I and II may not be effective for advanced stuff. How about tetracyclin?


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

Well its hard to say for sure if we don't know what we are dealing with, but both Maracyn and Maracyn Two are broad spectrum antibiotics. Pimafix and Melafix are good for preventing bacterial and fungal infections but not sufficient for something really nasty. Tetracycline is good for stuff like popeye, gill disease, fin and tail rot and secondary infections. Personally I'd go with the two Maracyns.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Can I have all of them together in the water, or should I do a water change, stop administering Pimafix and Melafix? Maracyn a good choice then for stuff like this? Here's another pic, no better than the other, but you can see it has progressed since yesterday.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I can't really tell what that shows. I'd do a large water change then add the two Maracyns if it were me.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Update.
This morning at 9AM I was the first customer at the local PetCo. I bought Maracyn and Maracyn 2. 
Went home, did a full water change, cut both tablets in 4 since I have roughly 2 and half gallons of water in the tank [1 full pill treats 10 gallons] and have begun treatment. I raised the water level a bit so I can still run the hang on the back tetra pump, I was advised this would be a good idea over having static water with such antibiotics. It is not too high so the betta can't reach surface and breathe, I have seen him do this and although it's not an easy feat, he can do it an seems to be doing it easier than before even. I also read that the carbon filter should be OK if it is older than 5 days and mine is going on 18 days now. Last night when I went to bed the betta looked so bad I gave it a 50/50 chance of surviving until the morning. Needless to say I barely slept. The scale loss has extended up to his top fin, this means almost 25% of his body. It also showed strong signs of spreadin on his other side although not as bad. The tail also showed signs of tail rot.
This morning, surprisingly he was alive and in the same condition as last night. Clearly Primafix and Melafix helped, but not enough and too slow. At least I could tell the disease has not spread more.
As I said, today at 10AM he was already in a fresh water change with Maracyn 1 and 2. Temp is at a steady 78*F. For dosing, as 1 pill turned into powder when I attempted to cut it, I will use another trick, basically dilluting both in water. I read that for 1 gallon dosing, dillute 1 pill in 10 tablespoons of water and use 1 tablespoon per gallon. That sounds about right?

What I did miss out on was that Maracyn 2 should have been administered in a higher dose on day 1. h well, I'm sure it will work just as well.

Plants. Question about plants. I've got two and I removed both during this treatment because I don't want to risk killing them. Not that they're that important but why not quarantine them if I can. My question is, is there a chance that the culprit for this outbreak might live on these plants and cause a comeback once I put them back in?

How long will the betta be OK without food, as he is not eating, before I have to worry. I've heard anything from a week to two.

How should I rinse all the stuff I use for the water changes? Bucket, vacuum, 1-gal bottle? I'm guessing these germs do not survive in freezing temp? It's winter, I could just take all these out and leave them there. I'm a bit scared because i use the same stuff for my brackish set-up with the crab in it and I don't want trouble starting there too.

Thanks for your help, your advice may just have saved my little guy.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, I'm home and it's not looking good. The disease hasn't progressed over his body but it seems it has progressed inwards. I can see some of his bones at the base of his tail. Speaking of tail, it's in shreds and it's almost gone. I watched him to see how he swims to the surface for air and I'm surprised he's able to at all. I'm starting to give up but I'll keep going until the end, he's fighting for his life and so will I.
Also, today I had a car accident. Bad enough that my side airbags deployed and the car is in the shop.
It's days like this one when you wonder what's the point to all this.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, exactly 35 minutes ago poor Rudi has been euthanized at exactly 10:30PM Central time. Looking critically at the situation it has become clear to me that the road to recovery was much too long and he was not going to make it. His tail was completely gone except for it's skeleton, 20 percent of his body was eaten away so severely that I could see his tiny bones. Up to 30 percent of his scales were gone. Breathing has become heavy and slowed. Thus it was best for him to go to betta heaven rather than suffer needlesly. I used blunt force to swiftly put an end to his misery and burned the body.
I will not be getting any betta or fish for that matter for a while. This has been the second betta I bought my wife and the second one to die in a matter of 2 months. I am just thankful that she did not see him as he was now, last she has seen him he was alive and healthy and greeted her happily as she said bye to him when she left town this past Friday.

How should I best handle all the stuff that has been in direct contact with the tank and the water? Is winter cold sufficient to kill off anything that might linger on? I think I will keep the plants.
I have another brackishwater tank with a red clawed crab for which unfortunately I have to use the same bucket, vacuum and so forth to do my daily water changes. What are the chances of the bacteria spreading?


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## SueM (Jan 23, 2004)

fishbone, I'm very proud of you for trying so hard to help your little friend, and to not let him suffer any longer.

Since your small tank is technically not cycled yet, I would start over. Rinse everything in hot water. Not many of us have the luxury of having separate equipment for each tank, a good rinse with hot water has worked for me for 40 years. There's also something you can get called net dip. Ever notice fish stores store their nets in a bucket? You can use it on the plants too, just rinse them well.


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## Puffer Pita (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm very sorry to hear that, fishbone. You did all that you could.


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

There's still part of me that's asking what if there still was a chance, but that's just me being in denial or our natural tendency to feel guilty about our decisions. Have you ever had such a viscious case of tail rot that in 8 hours the betta tail was completely gone? I still don't know what bacteria it was, but it was one resistant and powerful one! Antibiotics did little to stop it's advancement.


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## prosssopheap (Sep 13, 2007)

*how to breed Marble Goby correctly?*

Hello guys... I am here living in Cambodia and my family have been breeding the Marble Goby for many years.... but they're ended up alive 40% end of the year... meaning we put 100 of them in then get them alive only 40 fishes left. We breed them out of the river.. we built a fish cage and put it in the river.... 
my question is, what is the correct way to breed this kind of fish to get a better result? We want to get 60% + results...

Please help  
Thanks in advance.

Pross
[email protected]


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## ikermalli (Sep 23, 2007)

I would say use aquarium salt because if he's in pain and you put in mela and/or pimafix you will be putting a coating over his labyrinth organ which makes it harder for him to breath, aquarium salt is the best way to go


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## Cichlidsrule (Nov 8, 2006)

Ikermalii...didn't you hear Fishbone? He's dead already


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## fishbone (Jan 15, 2007)

Holy thread revival 
Yes, unfortunately the fella died and I can only attribute the death to disease brought upon by stress due to inadequate temperature. 70*F


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