# Beginning saltwater tank with 2 mandarin fish



## Albino_101

Title sums it up pretty good, it will be a FOWLR tank with 1 male and 1 female mandarin fish(can't do 2 males as they fight), the tank is a standard 20 gallon, I have never done saltwater before though, me and my dad are starting one together(he is new to salt too)

Here are my thoughts on what to do;
crushed coral for substrate
live rock obviously (I need some good estimates please)
a heater
air pump for dissolved oxygen
standard aquarium hood with light

Photo of fish:









What else should I have/need? I really need to know how many pounds of liverock I need, also my LFS owner (who is pretty knowledgeable) said that mandarin fish eat the little shrimp off of the live rock so I would have to "season" my live rock first, whatever that means.

Thanks in advance for any info!!!

-Albino_101


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## Tallonebball

Mandarin Gobies require a very seasoned tank, id say at least a 6 month old tank. The "little shrimp" your LFS is talking about are called copepods. Copepods need a while to build up colonies in your tank before you put in predators in. Mandarin Gobies only eat copepods so if you don't have enough in your tank you can either constantly buy them or let your gobies starve to death after they have eaten all of them. The only other option is to try to get your mandarins to eat mysis shrimp but thats very hard to do.
Im also not too sure just how much an air pump is needed in a salt tank.
I would also do a mixture of sand and crushed coral.
And with liverock its normally a pound per gallon but more is always better


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## Albino_101

Tallonebball how about after setting up the tank and letting the liverocks start going or seasoning, could buying copepods without the fish yet speed up that process, my dad wont wait 6 months, also after the copepods are established, will they breed enough to support 2 mandarin gobies, I am thinking about doing 30lbs of live rock.


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## bmlbytes

Albino, from my research, I think you need about 1 pound per gallon of water.

Nice goby by the way.


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## Albino_101

Yeah they do look pretty cool, but since the fish that will be in the tank live off the live rock I am thinking about doing 1.5 pounds per gallon so 30.


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## Tallonebball

Yes buying copepods without the fish is what you have to do or else they wont breed fast enough to keep up a population while being fed on. 
If you have just two Mandarins in the tank then yes you could easily support them if you get a good copepod base going. 
The 6 months thing is more about your tank being established and cycled because it normally takes a salt tank 6 months to mature. Make sure your levels are all basically perfect before adding the gobies. 
Also MAKE SURE you get a male and a female or 2 females. Males have the long spike on the top fin like in your picture. Dragonets dont tolerate other male dragonets lol


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## Albino_101

Thanks tallonebball, and I already know about the 2 males in the same tank problem.

Edit: By the way how do I tell there is a good enough copepod base population in my tank thats ready for the 2 fish?


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## Tallonebball

Well its hard but if you turn your lights off for a while, and then turn them back on, you should see really little "bugs" crawling all over your liverock, you gotta look hard though


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## TheOldSalt

This project is doomed to fail.

It takes about 40 lbs of rock to feed one mandarin, and that's after being allowed to mature for over 6 months. You'd need 80 lbs for two, and that won't fit in a 20 gallon tank.

Your only alternative would be to either set up some intensive copepod farming operation, or to buy lots of copepods every week. They are Horrendously expensive. It would cost you over 40 bucks a week.

Sorry, just telling you like it is. The chances of getting your mandarins to eat anything else are very, very low. It does happen on rare occasion, but do you really want to pin all your hopes on having two of those 6 out of 100 that won't starve to death? 

Do it right, or don't do it.


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## Guest

*Thanks*

*Its very refreshing to see seasoned members telling folks the way it is, no holds barred, just simple and accurate facts. It hurts me to see endless fish being doomed to a certain death because the hopeful owners, poorly educated, decide to try to keep fish they cannot possibly care for under their current circumstances. This is a "want it now" society, sometimes at the peril of a resource we all truly care about. To tell someone, YES you can have those fish but only under these conditions, Is Spot on and to be applauded, so thanks to the advisors in this thread and by the way, Those are beautiful fish *


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## Tallonebball

Yeah Im also sticking to my guns on the 6 month old thing. If you dad is too impatient for that then you should give it up because these things take time if you want to do them right. 
I actually got lucky that my mandarin decided to "try" a frozen mysis shrimp and now he eats them all the time but even then I also have a big copepod base in my tank and I didn't add the mandarin i have until 6 months.
I didnt know about the minimum requirement of live rock per mandarin TOS, tanks for the info.


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## SaltyDog

Mandarins are not good fish for beginners. They are so beautiful and hard to resist but don't forget that this is a living animal and it's not fair to set him up for certain death. You cannot fit enough rock in the tank to support two mandarins and like someone else said copepods are very expensive. My guess it that you would tire of running to your LFS every week for more. Please don't rush into this, take your time to do more reasearch and allow your tank time to mature.


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## Albino_101

Its not that we are rushing or anything it is just that my dad really wont wait 6 months, would I be able to do one mandarin fish in a 20 gallon then? thanks for all the info guys.

EDIT: its not my tank its my dad's and he really wants to do mandarin fish, I am just helping him out, we have both kept fish for many years this is just our first saltwater tank, also could a percula clown be kept with a mandarin fish?


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## TheOldSalt

_*sigh*..._

Can you cram 40 lbs of premium live rock into a 20 gallon tank?
Yes, you can. 
That's what it would take, and THEN you'd still have to either dump some $300 worth of 'pods into it or let them grow on their own without any predation for 6 months.
After that, you could keep one mandarinfish, as long as it was the only fish in the tank, since any other fish would eat up all the food.

Your only other options are:
- to go ahead and just do it the way you planned, and keep buying a new mandarin or two every month, as they die off, until you find one that will eat something else like frozen mysis or whatever.
OR
- buy your mandarins from someone who bred them himself and raised them to eat regular foods
OR
- otherwise search high & low until you find some for sale that eat.


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## Tallonebball

I actually work at a LFS so I fed all the Mandarins and bought the one who took to the mysis I was feeding them. 
For you i would ask if any of them are eating and if the clerk says yes, ask for them to show you them feeding it.


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## Albino_101

If I end up not doing the mandarin fish would 2 percula clowns be okay in a 20?

EDIT: this is my 300th post, THIS, IS, FISHFORUMS!


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## TheOldSalt

Sure, just fine. They might even spawn.


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## bmlbytes

TheOldSalt said:


> Sure, just fine. They might even spawn.


They probably will, considering you are guaranteed a male and a female if you get them young.


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## Albino_101

So I have basically decided to do 2 percula clowns, what type of water conditions do they prefer, I'm not going to try to breed them.


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## TheOldSalt

They prefer the conditions that most saltwater fish prefer, or should I say, require. Since most of the saltwater on earth is the same, most of the fish in it require the same.
In a way, this makes saltwater slightly easier than freshwater.


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## bmlbytes

Albino_101 said:


> So I have basically decided to do 2 percula clowns, what type of water conditions do they prefer, I'm not going to try to breed them.


pH - 8.0 to 8.5
Specific Gravity - 1.020 to 1.024 
Salinity 27 to 33 parts per thousand (measured on same scale as Specific Gravity)
Temperature - 72F to 80F
Hardness - Medium

As for breeding, you may not have a choice. Clownfish have the ability to change sex (largest is female, second largest is male). They are also protective of their eggs. You may get a few fry accidentally.

When you get them, don't be surprised if they kind of look like they might be fighting. They have a strange behavior that they do after being together for a little while. It's not fighting. It's them deciding who is male and who is female.


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## Albino_101

Thanks for the info bmlbytes and TOS


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## bmlbytes

Albino, are you going to do false or true perculas?


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## Albino_101

whats the difference?


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## bmlbytes

The true percula get a little bigger than the false perculas. They also have bigger black stripes. Some are almost completely black, but that is a selective breed of them. The true perculas are typically more expensive than the false perculas.










The false perculas all pretty much look the same. They are pretty much your standard clownfish. I have heard that the false percs are also a bit more hardy.








^^ Those are my false percs.


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## Fishfirst

True perculas color vary considerably by region. Papua New Guinea fish have a lot of black in the orange while Solomon islands are primarily orange.


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## Albino_101

Thanks <º((((><1st


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## connor123

these buitiful fish are amazing to look at but if you cant wait 6 months dont get into saltwater fish because it takes time and effort.good luck anyway?


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## Tallonebball

This thread is old connor, please check the dates.


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