# is this too overstocked????



## pando (Feb 3, 2006)

i have a 30 gallon setup its about 62x38.5x45cm 30 gallon tank with plenty of rocks and ornaments on the bottom with cichlids 2 x convicts 2 x re forest jewel 2 x auratus 2 x acei 2 x soulosi 3 x bala sharks 1 x blue guarami (adult full grown) 1 x angel........things seem ok all the species seem to be keeping to themselves they already have a heirachy thing going so tend to stay away from fish that are higher than them on the pecking order its like the bala sharks and clown loaches are exempt from attack and are allowed into they territory's but if the cichlids do they are immediantly chased away is this because they dont see the sharks and loaches as a threat ? (im only fairly new to owning an aquarium) as the fish are still only young im going to upgrade the tank when they're a little bigger


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

On this site, whatever you have in your tank is overstocked according to most. I was told I need a 55 gallon for 1 plecostamus. :roll: If you say the fish are acting fine and aren't getting in each other's way then I'd say you have a good setup, when they get a little bigger they might need more room.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

[Old sinister druid voice] I foresee a disaster... lots of pain... agony... death... ahhhhh!!!! [/Old sinister druid voice]

First, you tank is WAY overcrowded. Who advised you to put all those fish in? Anyway, you have to drastically reduce the amount of fish in there. Furthermore, you have fish in there that don't mix together... should not be mixed together. An Auratus, jewel are from Africa. Convicts are from S. America. Don't get me wrong... I'm all for multi-cultural exchanges but I don't think that fish feel the same way us humans do!

Seriously, please make some research on all the fish you have in there and take notes on the following : Where they come from, their needs in terms of water condition (pH, Temperature, KH), their needs in terms of nutrition. You will soon understand why I say that you have fish in there that don't mix. 

Right now, I'd say you have a time bomb on your hands. Time to hit Google and check all those fish and then decide what kind you wish to keep in there. Then, we can better help you at chosing the right combo and stocking.

Hope that helps you a bit,

Sponge
PS : It's not that I am lazy and won't do the research for you but you have so many diffent types of fish in there... I think you better check it out on your own. The exercise will be beneficial also as you will discover a lot of things about fish while doing this research. Good luck!


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

It's good to see that you are buying pairs of fish, but still there will eventually be a pair of cichlids and a grave-yard of everything else. For a start, mixaing hardwater fish with softwater ones isn't going to benefit them health wise in the long run. If I was you I'd get rid of the malawi cichlids, bala shark, and maybe the clown loaches as the get way too big for your tank. One pair of cichlids at each end of the tank will be a maximum number of new world cichlids you can keep in that tank without rugular carnages. So I'd keep the convicts and jewels, and fling the others. Beleive me, in the end you and your remaining fish will enjoy the tank a lot more with the reduced aggression.


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## pando (Feb 3, 2006)

the picture on my avatar should give u a clearer idea what my tank looks like


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

you shouldnt mix african and american cichlids. Thier water needs are too far apart for either one to live a long healthy life. Clown loaches get really big and will need a bigger tank than you have eventually but all of that has already been said.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

Just a little precision about clown loaches... not to argue with anything that has been said...

Clown loaches do grow big. In fact, they can reach, given the right conditions over a foot long!!! BUT they have a life span of 50 years, so they are S L O W ... V E R Y S L O W growers. So you can do with them in a tank of 20gal with no problem for a couple of years. Oh... they need to be in groups of at least 5... ok... maybe 3... but don't push it ! They need little buddies to help feel secure and do dance!!! 

Last but not least, CLs are prone to Ich so try to keep your tank clean and well filtered. They are cute lil bugs but they do need your TLC. By the way, they LOVE shrimp pellets!!! Hint hint!

Cheers!

Sponge :fish:


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## Fishfirst (Jan 24, 2005)

A clown loach maybe a slow grower, but I bet MOST of its growth is in the first few years of its life (like all fish).
I'd go with cichlid mans advice, pitch those fish to your local fish dealer, the tank will be much less crowded and you won't get a lot of problems that are associated with overstocked tanks (green water, disease, tank crashes)

Cliff -
common plecos really should be in 55 gallon tanks or bigger if possible, they don't stay small (20 inches), and they are poop factories due to them being herbivores. If you want one temperarily thats cool, but be sure you've got a home for them when they get 6-7 inches.


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

Fishfirst said:


> Cliff -
> common plecos really should be in 55 gallon tanks or bigger if possible, they don't stay small (20 inches), and they are poop factories due to them being herbivores. If you want one temperarily thats cool, but be sure you've got a home for them when they get 6-7 inches.


Whatever dude, you and a few others on here are what I call "fish liberals". The pleco will do fine in my tank, I'm not gonna go spend hundreds of dollars more for a bigger tank because my $4 algae eater will get bigger, I'll throw him in the trashcan before I do that. We'd all love to have huge houses, but we get by in smaller ones.


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## Torpedo (Jan 23, 2006)

Cliffizme2 said:


> Well I really should be in a mansion, but I do just fine in my 4 bedroom house.


:withstup:

that was awesome.


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

Ah I was still editing haha.


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## Torpedo (Jan 23, 2006)

Cliffizme2 said:


> Ah I was still editing haha.


It was perfect the way it was. 

i try to give my fish as much space as possible, but im not going to get ridiculous about it.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

Fishfirst said:


> A clown loach maybe a slow grower, but I bet MOST of its growth is in the first few years of its life (like all fish). I'd go with cichlid mans advice, pitch those fish to your local fish dealer, the tank will be much less crowded and you won't get a lot of problems that are associated with overstocked tanks (green water, disease, tank crashes)


Well Fishy, you can *bet* whatever you want and think whatever you want. *Fact is * that clown loaches are slow growers and it takes them YEARS to grow to 12" long IF they reach that size.

Bottom line Fishy... get off my back and if you want to bet, the casino is the best place to do so. LOL

MUUUUUUAAAAAHHH! :console: 

Sponge


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

Cliffizme2 said:


> Whatever dude, you and a few others on here are what I call "fish liberals". The pleco will do fine in my tank, I'm not gonna go spend hundreds of dollars more for a bigger tank because my $4 algae eater will get bigger, I'll throw him in the trashcan before I do that. We'd all love to have huge houses, but we get by in smaller ones.


You do have a very good valid point there, but Fishfirst is right in that a pleco gets 1-2 foot long and wouldn't really be suited to live its whole life in a 55g.


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

SpongeBob said:


> Well Fishy, you can *bet* whatever you want and think whatever you want. *Fact is * that clown loaches are slow growers and it takes them YEARS to grow to 12" long IF they reach that size.
> 
> Bottom line Fishy... get off my back and if you want to bet, the casino is the best place to do so. LOL
> 
> ...


This guys a nutcase.:lol: Does anyone here actually like this guy? He's full of bull.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> You do have a very good valid point there, but Fishfirst is right in that a pleco gets 1-2 foot long and wouldn't really be suited to live its whole life in a 55g.


Gawd... do you suffer from a reading disability? He doesn't give a fig newton about it. When the fish gets too large he will return it to the LFS. Ok... he said he would trash it but lets assume that he was a bit p*ssed off and will not do that.

Give the guy a break for heaven's sake! 

Sponge


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> This guys a nutcase.:lol: Does anyone here actually like this guy? He's full of bull.


Look Cichky... ask me if I care about what you think? LOL Start by paying a bit more attention to what people post and READ. Maybe you'll learn a few things.... lmao

But I must admit, you are a funny one... SuperMOD... MOD as in MODULATE your answers according to WHO post them and WHO glorifies HIS MAJESTY... LMAO

Sponge


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

SpongeBob said:


> Gawd... do you suffer from a reading disability? He doesn't give a fig newton about it. When the fish gets too large he will return it to the LFS. Ok... he said he would trash it but lets assume that he was a bit p*ssed off and will not do that.
> 
> Give the guy a break for heaven's sake!
> 
> Sponge


You've got REAL problems pal.:lol: I don't have a reading disability, I was simply saying that I can understand that everyone can't buy a huge 200g tank for their fishies, but a 55g tank is too small for the potential size of a plec. I think YOU are the one with the disability.:lol:


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

SpongeBob said:


> Look Cichky... ask me if I care about what you think? LOL Start by paying a bit more attention to what people post and READ. Maybe you'll learn a few things.... lmao
> 
> But I must admit, you are a funny one... SuperMOD... MOD as in MODULATE your answers according to WHO post them and WHO glorifies HIS MAJESTY... LMAO
> 
> Sponge


You're just a 41 year old creep who has nothing better to do is his life than insult people who have had nothing against you in the first place.


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

just someting to think about... ive kept tanks way over stocked (cichlids especially) there is no problem with that, (and i do mean WAY over stocked) but your in for much more work, and usually shorter fish lives, (not a liberal, i dont care about fish lives, but i do like to get my moneys worth of enjoyment) when you over stock, you have to stay on your toes with water changes, feedings, making sure everyone isnt fighting, when you stock lightly, its much more enjoyable IMO. the fish behave better, they arent freaking out all the time and usually display more colors, do what ever you all want to do, but just consider the advice, anything is possible, you can keep a pleco alive in a 20 gal tank for a long time. but its hard.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> You're just a 41 year old creep who has nothing better to do is his life than insult people who have had nothing against you in the first place.


Bla bla bla... ask me if I care.

Go preach to someone else...

Sponge


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

leveldrummer said:


> just someting to think about... ive kept tanks way over stocked (cichlids especially) there is no problem with that, (and i do mean WAY over stocked) but your in for much more work, and usually shorter fish lives, (not a liberal, i dont care about fish lives, but i do like to get my moneys worth of enjoyment) when you over stock, you have to stay on your toes with water changes, feedings, making sure everyone isnt fighting, when you stock lightly, its much more enjoyable IMO. the fish behave better, they arent freaking out all the time and usually display more colors, do what ever you all want to do, but just consider the advice, anything is possible, you can keep a pleco alive in a 20 gal tank for a long time. but its hard.


Amen bro !

Sponge ;-)


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

oh brother, all this as i was typing my post, im out of this one, sponge you were doing so well for a couple of days, not that your wrong, but the attitude man. cichlid man isnt doing anything any better, but at least he didnt start arrogant. now BACK ON SUBJECT!! BECAUSE THIS FISH BEGINNER NEEDS SOME HELP!

your tank isnt over stocked for now, but it will be when the fish get larger. as for the fish... you have a really bad mix like everyone said. consider your fish, and which ones you like the best. go from there, check ph and such as has already been suggested, and get fish with close to the same requirements. (you dont have too, but most of these fish will probably die or get killed by others really fast.)


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

SpongeBob said:


> Bla bla bla... ask me if I care.
> 
> Go preach to someone else...
> 
> Sponge


see ya sucker.:lol:


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

Cichlid Man said:


> see ya sucker.:lol:


Not so soon ASSHOLE !

Sponge LMAO !


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2006)

I'm back MORON !

Sponge


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## Cichlid Man (Jan 19, 2005)

jeez, give me a break sponge. :roll:


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

grow up sponge... i actually defended you. and your right back in it, you sure your 41? im on ly 26 and i act a little more mature.


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## adieu (Jan 26, 2006)

SpongeBob_30 said:


> I'm back MORON !
> 
> Sponge


The worst part is, I only feel sorry for you. You must lead a sad existance...

Now, on to the important stuff...

Like the majority, I agree that the mix in the tank is very off. You'll have to pick which you like best and go with that. With the number of fish you have, you will have a hard time keeping everything in check and when they get bigger it will only get worst.

As for the whole pleco debate...I agree with fishfirst, the common pleco will get huge and will need a large tank. Even if you can keep it alive, it won't be any kind of life because it won't have any space and it will constantly be knocking things over in the tank. That said, it is fine if you just keep in mind that you are only going to keep young common plecos in your tank, when they get to large you can take them to an LFS. No problem. However, a more cost effective solution would be to get a bristlenose instead, they don't get anywhere near as large. 

Funny thing, the "fish liberals" are the ones who actually know what they're doing in my experience. Strange how that works...


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## pando (Feb 3, 2006)

*so.....*

So does overstock work if you do regular gravel cleans and water changes??? none of the cichlids are fighting they stay out of each others way but the auratus seems to be the most aggressive in the tank but only challenging each other nobody else


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

pando said:


> So does overstock work if you do regular gravel cleans and water changes???


No one can answer that. Cleaning and changing water will always help any tank. You've been given several different opinions on stocking. You will just have to decide how you want to proceed and see what happens. Good luck.


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## Matt_1313 (Feb 2, 2006)

overstocks in general CAN be ok with a lot of work, but i think yours is still too much, especially when your fish start to grow a bit more. i think you will still have to get rid of some of them for sure...its either that or let the fish themselves choose who is the strongest if you know what i mean...i am not speaking liberally at all..i am usually an overstocker myself. it is hard not to keep adding fish especially if you dont want to buy a bunch of huge tanks. i would say get rid of the convicts for a start. they are very interesting and nice looking, but from my experience with them they take up too much tank for their size if you want a lot of fish. i know people will disagree with me on this one because they are some of the smaller fish in your setup, but some of your fish will have to go either way. maybe after bringing them back you could let it play out, with frequent water changes and close watch on their aggression, and avoid the problem until you have to face it. like i said i am an overstocker and i know where you are coming from, but yours is just too full. good luck with whatever you decide on...
Matt.


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## Cosidius (Jan 21, 2006)

firs toff i mix my centrals and souths and they do fine...i have 12 cichlids, 3 plecos, 1 dojo loach, 4 bamboo shrimp and 3 female fiddlers in a 125 and its fine....its a long 125 btw but yea were all not goin to compete at ACA..this is for fun...55 gall pleco tank...yea u buy it...and ill buy a 10 gallon for each goldfish


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

SpongeBob said:


> Gawd... do you suffer from a reading disability? He doesn't give a fig newton about it. When the fish gets too large he will return it to the LFS. Ok... he said he would trash it but lets assume that he was a bit p*ssed off and will not do that.
> 
> Give the guy a break for heaven's sake!
> 
> Sponge


Yeah I'd offer it to some people and to a fish store, then if they didn't want it he would be put in the trash. Not pissed off, just telling the truth. Sure we'd all like to fly to Asia to release it back into it's natural habitat, but the trash is closer.(assuming he doesn't fit down toilet hole)

I don't really know where the fighting came about... I don't need anyone defending me since I can go through Marine Corps training all by myself without someone holding my hand, surely I can handle some fish forum telling me what I don't want to hear. :lol: But I do enjoy a good debate, name calling is not debating.


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

can i point out to the mods that post # 25 needs to edited. there are some youngsters on here from time to time.


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## Mobydock (Sep 6, 2005)

Cliffizme2 said:


> We'd all love to have huge houses, but we get by in smaller ones.


Just to get semi-back on subject. 

The typical house has 8ft ceilings, 7ft doorways and rooms 12ft+x12ft+. If you were raised in a house with 4ft ceilings(not being able to go outside) and still grew to a perfectly healthy 6ft, 180lbs; then you call tell me I'm wrong and it's alright to put a fish that is said to grow well over 12" in a tank thats only 12" wide.

I understand that you may not care enough, or have the money to put your pleco in an appropriate size tank, but you chose the fish that went in it and could have chosen an alternative fish, which would have lived happily in that size tank.

Just because you don't care enough about your new pet to take it's needs into consideration, doesn't make me wrong. Maybe another thread should be started for what noobies think and experienced fish keepers/ breeders *know*.

EDIT: PS, when I started, I didn't understand why everyone here told me I needed a gigantic tank for only 6 Oscars. They were only 2-3" in the store. We all start somewhere, but when you've got a bunch of losers with nothing better to do, like us, giving advice it's a good idea to take it. It's like telling a computer programmer 1's and 0's don't mean anything in binary code.


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## pando (Feb 3, 2006)

ok i took the convicts 1 of the jewel and acei cichlids back to the fish store i now only have 1 jewel 1 acei 2 auratus 2 soulosi's 1 blue guarami 3 small silver sharks 3 small clown loaches....is that an improvement??


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## Mobydock (Sep 6, 2005)

It is definately an improvement, still far from ideal, but an improvement. Like recommended early in the thread, research the needs for each of the fish. 

Don't take all this argueing personally, it happens from time to time.


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

Mobydock, I think your analogy is a little off. You are talking about a house that is not even the height of a person and they cannot physically stand, I am talking about a tank that is well over the size of a plecostamus body and it has plenty of room to turn around, swim up and down, and across. Nice try though, next time try to find an analogy that makes sense. And thank you for underlining the key words so that us non-fish experts can understand.


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## Mobydock (Sep 6, 2005)

Alright Cliff, you caught us. Although I'll probably be dead in 1min and 45sec for giving you this information; we are all part of a worldwide government conspiracy. In order to stimulate our economy on a global scale, to compete with intergalactic dollar values; we have been brainwashed by our governments(martians), to go to different fish forums and advise the strong minded that they need bigger fish tanks. Somehow, The postal system, The Rolling Stones and Richard Simmonds are invloved in this conspiracy. Think about it, Rolling Stones, Richard Simmonds, they both have the initials RS.

:fun: :fun: :fun:


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## ron v (Feb 24, 2005)

Mobydock said:


> we have been brainwashed by our governments(martians), to go to different fish forums and advise the strong minded that they need bigger fish tanks.


He, he, he. That explains it. Thanks, Moby for pointing that out. It must be one of those electronic thingies that they hide in your TV.... And I thought all along, we were giving sound advice.... Silly me.


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## Matt_1313 (Feb 2, 2006)

So thats what it is, huh Moby? hahaha. Hey Pando your tank sounds a lot better. As long as you change the water often enough and keep an eye on them they should be ok for a while. good luck.
Matt


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## goodie (Sep 2, 2005)

Sorry to be another jerk here, but your tank is not great for the fish your keeping. A tall tank has no bottom area that your cichlids really need for claiming territory.


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## Georgia Peach (Sep 23, 2005)

Mobydock said:


> Just to get semi-back on subject.
> 
> 
> 
> when I started, I didn't understand why everyone here told me I needed a gigantic tank for only 6 Oscars. They were only 2-3" in the store. We all start somewhere, but when you've got a bunch of losers with nothing better to do, like us, giving advice it's a good idea to take it. It's like telling a computer programmer 1's and 0's don't mean anything in binary code.


 :withstup:


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## leveldrummer (May 27, 2005)

pando said:


> ok i took the convicts 1 of the jewel and acei cichlids back to the fish store i now only have 1 jewel 1 acei 2 auratus 2 soulosi's 1 blue guarami 3 small silver sharks 3 small clown loaches....is that an improvement??


since your still looking for advice, you are doing much better than before, but just a thought, you have some fish, they dont really get along, the best thing i see to do, (my opinion) would be to get the acei back, get rid of the gourami, and the sharks, get a small pleco, (rubber lipped) and you should be set. youll have seven large and colorful cichlids, and a very large clean up crew, your tank will be fun to watch, and all you have to do is keep it up, watch out for aggresion from the auratus, and watch that the loaches dont die.


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## Cliffizme2 (Oct 15, 2005)

Mobydock said:


> Alright Cliff, you caught us. Although I'll probably be dead in 1min and 45sec for giving you this information; we are all part of a worldwide government conspiracy. In order to stimulate our economy on a global scale, to compete with intergalactic dollar values; we have been brainwashed by our governments(martians), to go to different fish forums and advise the strong minded that they need bigger fish tanks. Somehow, The postal system, The Rolling Stones and Richard Simmonds are invloved in this conspiracy. Think about it, Rolling Stones, Richard Simmonds, they both have the initials RS.


Is that supposed to be funny?


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