# Information Overload



## ckeene9

Okay I've been reading till my eyes have fallen out:-( 

I think I Understand what I need and how these systems work but I would like you guys to help overlook my game plan here.

Tank: 55g. FOWLR
Lights: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~CU01606.html
Skimmer: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11302/product.web
Heater:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12060&N=2004+113767 
(2) 100watt or (1) 200watt, Which one?
Powerheads: have (2) 295GPH on the way, Gives me 10.72 per hour turnover rate http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4609&N=2004+113040
Along with these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11363&rel=1
Salt: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4856&N=2004+113009
Live Rock: floridaliverock.com 30#
Live Sand: floridaliverock.com 30#
Test Kit: ???
Hydrometer: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4952&N=2004+113761

Need some type of base rock and was thinking some agronite sand to go with Live sand.

Live Stock: Not exactly sure of what but here are my options:

Blue/Green Chromis
Ocellaris Clownfish
Flame Hawkfish
6 line Wrasse
Yellow Watchman Goby
Bicolor Pseudochromis
Racoon or Auriga Butterflyfish
Lawnmower Blenny
Turbo Snails
Blue/Green Ricordea Mushroom
Banded Coral Shrimp
Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crab

Also should I use this or get rid of it? It comes with the set-up I'm buying.
http://www.aquariumguys.com/eheimecco1.html

Also this tank I'm looking at getting is currently a freshwater. How do I go about resealing it so the meds do affect my reef? Scrape a layer of silicone off then put a new one on?

Also can I put live sand dollars into my aquarium that I collect while snorkeling? 


Thanks

Christopher

P.S notice I didn't say a tang like many other newbs have in the past


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## leveldrummer

for a fish only, the stuff you picked out looks pretty good, although you could do a little better on the skimmer, not that that is a bad skimmer, its just there are much better ones for not much more money. its worth the extra 25-50 bucks for triple the skimmer. maybe this one?
http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_35&products_id=47

skip the live sand, get cheap dead sand, and use the extra money on more live rock. live sand is a scam imo, you dont get the life that you want. you just get a bit of bacteria, and you will have that soon enough in your cycle. just get more rock, and maybe find a local that will donate a couple handfuls of sand to seed your tank a bit better. 

hydrometers are ok, but a refractometer is a much better idea, its a bit more money, but it is far more reliable. if that is out of your price range, try to find a local store that has a refractometer, that wouldnt mind letting your calibrate your hydrometer every couple months.


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## ckeene9

Will this skimmer be able to HOB since I'm not gonna have a sump until later this year or next year?


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Okay I've been reading till my eyes have fallen out:-(
> 
> P.S notice I didn't say a tang like many other newbs have in the past



ROTFLMAO!!! At Last!! Someone who reads alot and has a very good grasp on his/her needs in advance!


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Tank: 55g. FOWLR I like a 75G as a "first" tank better.....It's just "roomier" but a 55G is fine!
> Lights: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~CU01606.html These should do just fine at keeping your Live Rock alive! With a Retro, You have to have a Canopy to build the lights into so I assume you do.
> Skimmer: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11302/product.web Not a bad skimmer, Not the best but will work fine for your needs as HOB then as in sump later. Consider an ASM in Sump later on.
> Heater:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12060&N=2004+113767
> (2) 100watt or (1) 200watt, Which one? Great heaters! Always go with 2 smaller ones to serve as a safety
> Powerheads: have (2) 295GPH on the way, Gives me 10.72 per hour turnover rate http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4609&N=2004+113040
> Along with these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11363&rel=1 No, No!  2 X SEIO m820s will be MUCH better! Those Hydor Flos work fine and provide some good random flow but they reduce the GPH by as much as 50%. Use http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12074&N=2004+113040
> Salt: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4856&N=2004+113009 I Prefer this Pro Reef salt but your choice is not a bad one. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=7373&N=2004+113009
> Live Rock: floridaliverock.com 30# Need at minimum 55LBS, Best with 75LBS
> Live Sand: floridaliverock.com 30# Get Aragonite Sand and save some $. You live Rock will make the Aragonite Sand "Live" very quickly.
> Test Kit: ??? Sakifert Kits, All the way!
> Hydrometer: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4952&N=2004+113761  Ah HAH! Caught one thing you failed to read enough on.....  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1
> 
> Need some type of base rock and was thinking some agronite sand to go with Live sand. You CAN actually do 50/50 on Live/Base Rock. It will take longer to fully cycle this way but works fine and can save you a BUNDLE!
> Live Stock: Not exactly sure of what but here are my options:
> 
> Blue/Green Chromis Ok
> Ocellaris Clownfish Ok
> Flame Hawkfish Use Caution around Shrimp
> 6 line Wrasse Ok
> Yellow Watchman Goby Ok (Great with a Pistol Shrimp)
> Bicolor Pseudochromis Can get Mean
> Racoon or Auriga Butterflyfish Can get Large, Not "Reef Safe"
> Lawnmower Blenny Ok
> Turbo Snails Lots
> Blue/Green Ricordea Mushroom Ummm, Coral.....In a Fish Only Tank?? Suddenly it becomes a Reef tank! Ricordia are more light demanding than normal Mushroom corals but can do fine up high with PC lights.
> Banded Coral Shrimp I'm Not a fan. Aggressive toward other inverts.
> Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crab Only Hermit found in ANY of my tanks are Scarlet Legs! Not Reds! Only the Scarlets do not kill your snails. They are a bit costly though.
> 
> Also should I use this or get rid of it? It comes with the set-up I'm buying.
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/eheimecco1.html eBay is your friend.
> 
> Also this tank I'm looking at getting is currently a freshwater. How do I go about resealing it so the meds do affect my reef? Scrape a layer of silicone off then put a new one on? EEK, Soak the devil out of it with 50/50 vinegar & Water. No NOT unseal a tank ever! If you think it is too badly soaked with copper to use safely then buy another tank. Resealing is too risky.
> 
> Also can I put live sand dollars into my aquarium that I collect while snorkeling? Another "EEK" moment! Never, Ever, EVER put anything from the wild into your tank! Water, Sand, Rock all have pollution up to 20 miles offs h o r e and can destroy your tank! Further out livestock would be "better" but still can introduce bacteria into your tank that can wipe it out. Not worth the risk and not to even mention the legal ramifications if you take anything from the oceans. (Even Rocks)
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Christopher
> 
> P.S notice I didn't say a tang like many other newbs have in the past



Whew, Now that was alot of fun answering.


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## Osiris

Yea that was first thing that caught my eye as reefneck pointed out, that's a retro kit you picked out, hope you have a canopy to put it into and know the wiring.


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## Damon

The planets must be aligned in some rare occurrence. Did I see Keri just compliment a newbie reef keeper?  I must play the lottery............


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## ckeene9

Thanks Reefneck, I was hoping you would reply. Yes I have a canopy.

I just picked up the tank tonight and the African Cichlids are pretty cool right now. I think my plan is to get all my SW gear together then change it over.

I saw your post on the refractometer but it is way out of my $ range right now.

As far as the Powerheads the ones I put up are already shipped  

As far as the Auriga Butterfly should I totally stear clear or is it something I'm gonna have to watch?


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## Reefneck

Damon said:


> The planets must be aligned in some rare occurrence. Did I see Keri just compliment a newbie reef keeper?  I must play the lottery............


Hehehehe, If you won any money.....I get 50%


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Thanks Reefneck, I was hoping you would reply. Yes I have a canopy.
> 
> I just picked up the tank tonight and the African Cichlids are pretty cool right now. I think my plan is to get all my SW gear together then change it over.They are the most colorful FW fish there is.
> 
> I saw your post on the refractometer but it is way out of my $ range right now. Way Out? that my friend is cheap and a very important investment. too high SG can cause stress to fish & corals and too low can kill inverts and corals. Way too low can even kill fish. To keep any corals or inverts I would find a way to get this item. If all you have is fish.....It could wait a "little" while but get one.
> 
> As far as the Powerheads the ones I put up are already shipped  Never order anything until after your questions are answered silly! Decline the package, Return them. Flow is one very important factor. While thesee are not "BAD" PH's, They do not provide a wide flow that is desired as the Seio does.
> 
> As far as the Auriga Butterfly should I totally stear clear or is it something I'm gonna have to watch? In any of "My" 5 Reef tanks.......I'd Steer Clear!!


:chair: oh darn, Another reboot required. Man I hate upgrading my computer.


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## Osiris

I gotta agree the $35-40 for a refractometer is way worth it dude, I had gone without one for quite some time, and i will never go back to a floating hydrometer again, the incredible accuracy, no need to do the temp compensation calculation after u get the reading from the floating one as the refractometer already compensates, and besides seem more sophisticated looking into a telescope like device, makes me feel smarter LOL


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## ckeene9

Would any LFS worth their salt (no pun intended) be able to check my SG until I can get that?

As far as Ph's can I just add the one you suggested on top of the two on the way?

And I have this crazy idea of adding a sump now but don't feel like making the overflow box, anybody got one for sale or know where I can get one at a reasonable price?


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## MaelStrom

I doubt that most LFS will have a refractometer. Where I work, we have a hydrometer. Just get the refractometer. If you have the money to buy a sump instead of making it, you can afford a refratometer.


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Would any LFS worth their salt (no pun intended) be able to check my SG until I can get that? Most likely not but Ask if they use a Refractometer. If so, then yes.
> 
> As far as Ph's can I just add the one you suggested on top of the two on the way? I am suggesting "2" of the SEIOS. you need one at each end. Yea, You can add them. Didn't think you wanted to spend the money on 4 if you can't afford a Refractometer for under $50.
> 
> And I have this crazy idea of adding a sump now but don't feel like making the overflow box, anybody got one for sale or know where I can get one at a reasonable price? Hmmmm, And can't affordt the Refractometer?? Although IMHO, A tank without a Refugium/Sump of some type is trouble looking for a time to happen.


:fish: :fun: :razz:


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## ckeene9

Okay it looks like I really really really need this refractometer! Added to the list! 

What about buying the overflow box? Or could I make one out of 1" PVC? I'm good with the all the other plumbing since my Summer job is Landscaping and we do irrigation work too!


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Okay it looks like I really really really need this refractometer! Added to the list! :fun: YES!!!
> 
> What about buying the overflow box? Or could I make one out of 1" PVC? I'm good with the all the other plumbing since my Summer job is Landscaping and we do irrigation work too! Do not attempt to DIY this. Bad news. This is one of those items that we do not short cut. Can flood your home. Check that famous auction site or local classifieds for a used overflow. They are fine. Just be sure to get the U Tube type and NOT the CPR type. The ones that use a pump (CPR Type) fail more often. The U Tubes have not failed me in 25 years. (Except when self caused)


:fun: :fish: :smile:


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## Damon

Couldn't agree more. I'm lucky here as I have very good reef stores in my area who sell them and will check my water if need be.  Your tank will need time to cycle anyway. There's plenty of time to save up. Not so much time after you add critters and fish and corals.


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## ckeene9

Okay cpl. more questions:

How can I tell if my tank is soaked in copper?

Is the refractometer need when I'm cycling the tank? or Just when I add livestock?

Where online can I buy an overflow box?

Getting closer, real close!


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Okay cpl. more questions:
> 
> How can I tell if my tank is soaked in copper? Get a Copper Test Kit, Fill tank up and test the copper levels.
> 
> Is the refractometer need when I'm cycling the tank? or Just when I add livestock? Refractometer measures how much salt is in the water so you have to have some way of doing that even the first time you fill the tank.
> 
> Where online can I buy an overflow box? Almost anywhere. Like, Here: http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-OVERFL...ryZ46310QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem You want one like that and not what is called the "CPR" type. These have never failed me in 30 years. You don't "NEED" the dual, a single would be fine. Thats just the first one I found.
> 
> Getting closer, real close!



Now keep reading and asking!  :console:


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## ckeene9

This one should be enough flow right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-WET-DR...8459560QQihZ002QQcategoryZ46310QQcmdZViewItem

Can I do the copper test with my cichlids in there now?


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> This one should be enough flow right?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-WET-DR...8459560QQihZ002QQcategoryZ46310QQcmdZViewItem Yes, That one is exactly what you need!
> 
> Can I do the copper test with my cichlids in there now? Yes, If any copper registers you will need to retest it after the tank has been emptied and refilled.


:angel: :fun:


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## ckeene9

Petsmart didn't have the copper test:chair: 

Gonna have to check petsupermarket and then off to my LFS that's on the otherside of town:-x


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## ckeene9

http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=293

Is it possible to put these in my Canopy pictured above?
I have 6 1/4" clearance from the canopy to the top of my water.

Also when I buy my test kit what does it need to include (need to test)?

Can I use this pump(2300 model) for the return on my sump?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8164&N=2004+113041


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=293
> 
> Is it possible to put these in my Canopy pictured above?
> I have 6 1/4" clearance from the canopy to the top of my water. I'm going to let someone more experienced in mounting Retro kits than I am answer this one. I know halides have to have a taller canopy. Not sure about those.
> 
> Also when I buy my test kit what does it need to include (need to test)?
> Ammonia, Nitrite,Nitrate,PH. Those are the standards. In your case you also want the Copper kit and later on, Calcium & Alkalinity. Depending on what problems you encounter, Perhaps Phosphates & Silicates might be needed in the future.
> 
> Can I use this pump(2300 model) for the return on my sump?
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8164&N=2004+113041  You COULD! Junk IMHO. Look at a Quiet One 3000 or a Mag 7. Mag 7 being my first choice.



:fish: :fish: :fish:


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## ckeene9

These are no good, right?

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~overflow_boxes_cpr.html

Also what about Red Sea Test Kits? 

Also I went to my LFS for the first time today (rather disappointed) but said I wouldn't have a need or problem with copper if I don't re-use anything from my currents set-up. True?


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> These are no good, right? IMHO I would not own that type ever again! They tend to overflow and flood the room 10X more often than the U-Tube type.
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~overflow_boxes_cpr.html
> 
> Also what about Red Sea Test Kits? They are OK. Salifert kits are the best but avoid the test "strips" like a bad haircut!!
> 
> Also I went to my LFS for the first time today (rather disappointed) but said I wouldn't have a need or problem with copper if I don't re-use anything from my currents set-up. True?  Most likely.....BUT.....Better safe than sorry. The have been reports of copper soaking into the silicone of a tank. Not sure to what extent it can cause harm but if you want to be 100% safe.....


 :fish:


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## ckeene9

THANKS!!!

But I have some more questions :lol: 

Where should my returns be for my sump? On coming out of the substrate or just into the top of the water column? 2 or 1 returns?

Also as there any safe paint that I can paint the PVC black for a more clean look?


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> THANKS!!!
> 
> But I have some more questions :lol:
> 
> Where should my returns be for my sump? On coming out of the substrate or just into the top of the water column? 2 or 1 returns? You will only have 1 return pump, Thus one return. Only get 2 returns if you connect a SCWD to the return. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11661/product.web and as for where to return, 99% of people just use this: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~FT0001.html Just be sure to get the right size for your plumbing.
> 
> Also as there any safe paint that I can paint the PVC black for a more clean look? Ah, A Question out of my area. I have never painted anything that gets wet. Would rather let coraline algae cover it. I am sure there is someone here on the forums that can answer that one for you. That is something that is critical and I don't want to guess.


 :fish:


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## Fishfirst

Yes you can paint the outside of the tank black... I have two tanks painted black and they look awesome. BTW aquatraders = trouble, there are many complaints about their equipment setting fire to houses


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## ckeene9

Didn't order from aqua traders But from Marine Depot. I read about the fires on another site and said $70 isn't worth it.

Can I paint my PVC return pipes black that will be in the water???


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## Fishfirst

no need to... plastic will quickly be engolfed in coraline algae anyway...


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## ckeene9

Thanks! About a week away from tearing down my tank and turning it into my reef.


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## ckeene9

Good test kit?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4404&rel=1


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## Fishfirst

A fine test kit. Seachem is one of the leading manufacturers for this sort of stuff.


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## ckeene9

Thanx! Osiris just answered my ? in the chat as you arrived in there. Already ordered along with salt and the refractometer. Just a bit closer.


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## ckeene9

Lights came today! BUT only enough hardware for 3 lights came so I'm now waiting a week for them to send the stuff out:chair: 

Marine Depot Customer Serv. is awesome.

Power USA packing is Horrible :chair:

P.S Forgot to add that these lights only brought my temp up by .5 degree.


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## Bear

for now at least


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## ckeene9

Well just got back from Clearwater Beach and have a Live Sand Dollar in QT right now. Gonna try and see if I can get this to work. Otherwise he'll just be used in the aquascape. Also found a few scallops which tasted pretty good.  

Just waiting for my salt and refractometer to arrive.


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## ckeene9

Okay I've figured out that I can fit a 20L as a sump but was wondering if I should also make it part refugium? What would be the total additional costs of doing such. 

Got 28gal. of water tonight since K-Mart had a load of it on the floor for sale (Thanks Dean!!). Just waiting for the salt and refractometer then I'm ready to take this FW tank down.

Also what size or brand sand should I go with and should I do a DSB or shallow?


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## CollegeReefer

I am not sure if someone awnsered this in chat, but you should be able to retro your canopy to fit any lights. You will have to watch the size of the reflector and mogul for mh for some hang lower then others. I used the MH Parabolic Reflector Set w/ Mogul Base from hellolights.com. The dimensions of the reflector are 16"x13"x5" (LxWxH). When it comes to vho, t5, and pc you will just need to buy the right length reflector. You will not have to worry about height. One thing to keep in mind is that is always best to keep your ballast outside of the hood/canpoy to help with heat. But make sure it is in a area that won't get wet.


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## ckeene9

The lights are already in and running great!! Just waiting on them to send the 4th hardware package that they didn't pack in it. Thanks for the info though!!


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## Fishboy93

ckeene9 said:


> Well just got back from Clearwater Beach and have a Live Sand Dollar in QT right now.


 Sure hope you didnt collect it right off the beach.. thats really illegal. or at least on the west coast...


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## ckeene9

Really???

http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recseashells.htm

http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recharvestmls.htm

You might wanna check regs before you speak.


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## CollegeReefer

Great info Ckeene9. I am no where close to that area but it is cool seeing the rules on harvesting.


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## ckeene9

Got the H2O just waiting for the salt delivery tomorrow. My refractometer and test kit came today too!










Now to get rid of the cichlids.


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## Guest

that's alot of water...lol how many gallons?


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## ckeene9

I think some where around 76gal.


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## ckeene9

Getting closer! Have a few more fish options

Yellowtail Damsel fish (NOT for cycling)
Royal Gramma


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## Reefneck

ckeene9 said:


> Getting closer! Have a few more fish options
> 
> Yellowtail Damsel fish (NOT for cycling) *NO DAM DAMSELS!! Ever! For any reason! NEVER! AARRGGHH!!*
> Royal Gramma


:chair: :-x :chair:


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## CollegeReefer

yellow tales are one of the least aggressive damsels but they still can get aggressive. I had a friend that had one and it would never leave his coral beauty alone. However it did leave his royal gramma alone which was introduced to the tank before the damsel. The coral beauty was introduced after the damsel.


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## Reefneck

ALL Damsel get meaner as they get larger! Sure, There may be on exception in the world but there is no way on this earth I am going to tear my tank down to catch one stupid $3 fish that is harrassing my $100 fish! There is not ANY Damsel that is not M E A N! !

Green Chromis are sold as "Damsels" at times but are not true damsels. They are in the family but are not mean except to each other. They would be ok but no Damsels! My wife had a school of Chromis and the smallest one killed all the others. He is now an only child. 

If you put in a $3 fish and it harasses your $50 fish then do you want to spend your day taking out all your rock to catch the little Bat Turd? I doubt it. Forget the Damsels altogether and look at nicer fish. The Royal Gramma is a fine fish....Territorial but does not attack others unprovoked.

Look at a Pair a False Percs if on a budget or True Percs for just a bit more but don't mix clowns in the same tank. Consider a Dwarf Angel, I love my "Flame Angel" but only one per tank. A Lawnmower (Algae) Blenney has loads of personality and is cool to watch. Also look at a Yellow Watchman Goby and get a Tiger Pistol Shrimp to pair with him. What a sight to see.  I also love my engineer gobies but if you get one of these you will want to be sure your rocks are 150% secure. They are not called engineers for nothing. lol

Want any more ideas from what is in my tanks? Just ask. Just please, NO DAMSELS!!


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## ckeene9

Okay Reefneck, How long do you think pollutants stay in sand dollars? I still have this guy thriving after 3weeks to the day. And it probably won't be until another few weeks before I can even put NaCL H2O into my main tank + cycling time. So would it be safe to put him in there by then?


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